When a man talks about his big truck, he's probably making up for his "small hands."
Money doesn't talk, it swears.
24
Wasn't there a recent story about Kavanaugh, the supreme court nominee, having incurred huge credit card debts for baseball game tickets? Seems like a flimsy reason for incurring debt by comparison....
45
Reading this just made me contribute to Abrams’ campaign! Why is it that we can have all the financial information on Stacey Abrams and not on Donald Trump?
47
Republicans, the party of irresponsible tax cuts which explode the deficit and benefit mostly the people who need them the least, have no moral authority to shame poor and middle-class debtors.
37
This is America- we're ALL faking it. Faking being happy, faking being wealthy, faking optimism. Most of us have 99 problems and those that don't are what we know to be as the one percent. At least Abrams is being what so many people said Hillary Clinton was not: genuine and real. Her debt and being upfront about it just makes me like her more - if I wasn't stuck in New Jersey I'd vote for her.
21
While debt analysis is important, at least somebody in debt isn’t already part of the swamp that our esteemed leader was supposed to be getting rid of.
14
Yes, and race and her gender play a part as well. We shame women routinely due to our premise that she must be spending the money on frivolous things. Meanwhile, our Prez who has claimed bankruptcy to get out of paying back his loans, failed to the tune of $4 billion, made routinely bad Real estate business deals, and ran casinos into the ground. But still has his gold plated penthouse. Sure, we can say this has something to do with fiscal responsibility and how a candidate would budget a state, yet, we elected this man and didn't even require him to show his tax returns. So all bets are off now, people. Can't have one standard for one and another for another.
26
I can attest, and so can millions of other people, that CA's government IS terrible with money.
Especially if it's other people's money. The waste, the useless grandiose schemes and black holes that have left the state in serious debt, are unforgivable.
Meanwhile, for all the taxes, fees and other money raising plans that keep coming at a constant...the infrastructure is decrepit, the biggest employers and industries are fleeing, and homelessness and poverty are at an all time high.
It's Third World economics driving CA's condition right now.
I have argued over and over that Dems are no better than Republicans in their lack of foresight and cooperation for the good of the country.
Self interested as always.
Except the Dems have convinced their constituency of otherwise.
17
Ms Goldberg proves again that if you are a Feminist Hammer, everything male is a nail.
To kvetch that rich guys like Trump get away with it, so we should not inquire into Ms Abrams’ personal financial affairs, is absurd. While Trump’s personal financial decisions are disgusting, there was public inquiry, albeit with limited success as to his tax returns.
By the same token, Ms Abrams, for whom I would vote if I were a Ga. voter, should be more forthcoming. If she had gained financial success, that fact would be trumpted by her supporters. So, if she is debt, and has not paid her taxes, it is relevant to ascertain why. Was it unavoidable circumstances or irresponsibility? If the later, one could question her fitness for higher office, although she should still be the choice of Ga. voters in light of her opponent
15
J. Paul Getty was once quoted as saying, "If you owe the bank $100, that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem." That seems to be the way rich Republicans think.
23
When the present governor was running for his first term he was bankrupt having co-signed for his daughter & her husband to start a sporting goods store in the middle of nowhere . It failed . His supporters said it was what any father would do . Oh , and two or three months after he was elected he was solvent again . Let’s elect Stacey Abrams so she can clear up her dept .
33
there are many people I have known over the years who measured their wealth and that of their peers by how much debt they were able to accrue. one man I know of commented, "I guess I must be rich now; I owe $84 million." the concept was simple, if self-centered: you are really worth something based upon how much others will lend you, especially if it's plenty. conversely, if you rack up penny ante debt from unpaid medical bills, helping out distressed relatives, or losing your paycheck, you're a flaky deadbeat. the difference? your credit worthiness.
15
I will be voting for Stacy Abrams in November. Her financial situation doesn’t matter to me. Currently, I’m pursuing a Master’s degree from Johns Hopkins and will graduating with student loan debt. My parents are help me with living expenses, so I will not have other debts on top of my student loans. Does that make irresponsible like Stacy Abrams for wanting a education from one this country’s top universities?
What the column neglected to be mentioned is that the 50,000 in debate to the IRS resulted in her pay for her father’s cancer treatment. She is also financially responsible for her parents, a nice, and other family members. She made the tough decision to pay medical bill over her taxes. I think many of Americans can relate to being in that situation. I also think many Americans would also feel that she is being very responsible by help out her parents and other family members, as these are the family values that Conservative Republicans have been promoting for decades. But yet when people of color or women, try to live up to these ideas they get called irresponsible. As Americans we all should be questioning this reaction to Ms Abrams person financial situation, as it not unusual when you look at the bigger picture.
Stacy Abrams is the only choice for Georgia if we want to continue the economic growth that we have seen for the pass decade.
52
Ms. Goldberg's attempt to justify Stacey Abrams' enormous debt fails.
More than $200,000 in personal debt, including $54,000 to the IRS? And Ms. Abrams gives $50,000 to her campaign instead of paying off most of her IRS debt? You must be kidding!
Ms. Goldberg misleads when she states: With left-wing groups intent on recruiting nontraditional candidates, issues of personal debt and financial instability are likely to come up more often. “We’re seeing a trend now of more working-class folks, especially more people of color and women of color, run for office,” said Maurice Mitchell, national director of the Working Families Party, a progressive group that endorsed Abrams.... Naturally, said Mitchell, some of them “are dealing with a lot of the issues that regular working people deal with every single day.” Ms. Abrams is hardly a typical working-class person; she has a law degree from Yale, worked as a tax attorney, and co-founded a financial services firm.
Yet even now, 19 years after getting her law degree, Ms. Abrams still has an outstanding student loan balance of six figures. Perhaps she needs to go back to Yale (or even a local community college) for a refresher course on personal finance.
How could anyone believe Ms. Abrams could possibly manage the finances of an entire state? This is not a matter of party or race or gender; it is about someone's blatant inability to manage her personal debts responsibly. This is a bad sign for someone running for governor.
47
Now … that’s an interesting argument. The fact that a gubernatorial candidate can’t manage her own personal finances isn’t a valid argument to make against her as a potential governor by her political opponents; but the fact that her opponent is claimed to employ dog-whistles and to suppress votes (even if permissibly) is quite valid.
To me, BOTH are valid arguments against the candidates. What Georgians face, on these issues, is a choice that Americans faced on 8 November 2016 – two flawed candidates one of which was GOING to be president of the United States. Yet Americans didn’t ignore ANY of the considerations related to HRC and Trump, they weighed them all. Unsurprisingly, the outcome was thinner than Trump’s actual hair.
Michelle merely has expressed her own value-set, adjusted as it is by her political interests and whom she would prefer to see elected on ideological grounds. Georgians will need to apply their own values in the weighing, and likely will base their votes not on debt-shaming or dog-whistles alone, but on the kind of Georgia each candidate wants to create.
And come 6 November 2018 in Georgia … we’ll see what we see.
12
Meh. She's clearly bad with her own money. Why would we trust her with funds from taxpayers? The other people do it too isn't much of a defense.
20
@Sane Liberal
Not as bad as her opponent! $500,000 he owes. Egad! Talk about being bad with money.
14
Any politician who is deep in debt is a legitimate target, particularly if they owe back taxes of any kind. It demonstrates a lack of personal fiscal responsibility that can not be condoned in public officials and makes the targets for corruption if elected.
Excluded of course must be the home mortgage but that must not be in arrears.
18
@Richard Frauenglass, if that's the standard, then we should require full transparency from all candidates. We need several years of complete personal tax returns, as well as the returns of S corporations owned by the candidate or his family.
We have no idea whether Mr. Trump owes money, where he gets his money, or whether he's paid federal income taxes.
34
@Richard Frauenglass Including our Prez right? Who has claimed bankruptcy a few times, owed $4 billion due to failed casinos and other RE ventures and found himself, banks who wouldn't lend to him, and so now he's in debt to Vlad? Right?
17
Absolutely love this op-ed, Michelle. Great analysis. Indeed, it does say something - actually many somethings - about the GOP in Georgia (and nationally) that they will attack Ms Abrams for a small personal debt accrued to pay for school, while their candidate has $500,000 of debt. And yes, the rich often live on debt, many unpaid as we are seeing with Manafort, or turn income into "loans" making them magically "tax exempt." If we are to be strictly empirical economists about the current economic structure, surely we must take into account the debts of "externalities" - things like pollution, unsafe working conditions, displacement, etc. Or even the accrued, unearned wealth of rich, white families off the slave trade - a debt that is still yet to be paid. I am sure if we had a real conversation about debt, the GOP and the plutocratic classes would certainly lose the argument along with much of their wealth. Thanks again!
24
1. Managing your life, a business and government are totally different. As is the approach to debt in each case. 2. Debt has not moral value. That is simply neoCalvinism. There are many reasons people borrow, pay back, do not pay back. 3. Taxes have relative effects on people depending in their income level. We have a far from progressive tax system and the rich and corporations take much greater advantage than the middle class. 4. Elect people based on their view, policy stands and if applicable political history. Not the mental caltrops folks throw out. It seems that Mr. Kemp is a step backward as are the folks who would vote for him. Yes I have had personal and business debt. Sometimes it is a result of calculated use of leverage and sometimes circumstantial need and things out of ones control. However, I formed my views long before that and reject the Calvinist view in totality as well as the self righteous stand that many seem to have.
9
I really love your writing Michelle. Thank you for your original and strong voice in pointing out the appalling hypocrisy of the oligarchical hyper-capitalist system we our now experiencing in the United States.
I have my own small architecture firm and I direct an arts high school Architecture Program. My low 6 figure salary a year is still not enough to make ends meet in San Francisco. I've had debt problems most of my life that I fear I may now be able to overcome. Indeed, rents in San Francisco have never been higher and continue to escalate.
In my opinion the solution for the struggles most Americans are facing is adequate taxation of the very wealthy and redistribution of that wealth into free healthcare and free college education.
For me, that would mean an extra $7,000 a year in my bank account from medical and eventually as much as $100,000 or more for my sons and daughters college education.
We all know what has been happening in this country since Reagan was elected. Trump is simply the orange icing on the cake, as in "let them eat cake".
13
@David Kesler Yes, it says a lot when the someone with 100,000 - 150,000 a year salary is struggling, but as I have written, social stratification is bending in very odd ways with multi-millionaire and billionaire class continuing to accumulate wealth at levels never seen since the rise of Capitalism some 400 years ago. The old bourgeois - yourself included - is now the petite bourgeois (struggling), whereas the petite bourgeois (shop-keepers, small business owners without advanced skills, etc) have fallen into the working-class and most of the working-class would be considered - by their earning power relative to the plutocrats - lumpen-proletariats!
9
Her financial situation, as well as any other person running for office, or holding positions of influence, should be examined before being hired in government (or private world). Especially, if you are in a position to directly influence your financial fortunes in unethical ways. Period.
Research has shown that people with negative debt are more prone to engage in unethical behavior in the working place (I wonder why...). If Ms Abrams, has a history of making payment on that debt and is financially situated to comfortably keep making payments, I do not see the problem. But if she has been financially struggling and not making payments then I would count that as a serious red flag.
I did not give Trump a pass over his financial dealings, the man is loser. To give Ms Adams a pass because she is a black and women, that would be double standard.
On a separate note, if the story that she owns $50k in back taxes to the IRS, while she made 50k in contributions to her own campaign is true, sorry, but that's more then just bad optics.
14
Stacey Abrams' problem is that she doesn't owe enough money. As we've heard for years, "“If you owe the bank thousands, then you have a problem. If you owe the bank millions, then the bank has a problem.”
Borrowing money from one party so you can lend it to somebody else is often called banking. The trick isn't whether you do it, it's whether you can manage it.
Playing it for laughs and pointing out the class difference might work. Poor people are always being made miserable over amounts that wouldn't pay for one of Paul Manafort's shirts.
In general, the best thing is to ignore the issue as much as possible. It's making a mountain out of a molehill. How about, "If this is all they can find, I'm really pretty good!"
I suspect Trump would say that people who worry about such small debts are "stupid."
7
Is this article satire? It's not $2000 in debt; it's not $20,000 in debt; it's TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS....and you think this raises no red flags when she's asking for a job with enormous budgetary responsibility (not to mention to potential for graft; a $200,000 debt would make it difficult to get a high level security clearance)?
I expect better from the Times than this nonsense.
27
@By George, so are you concerned that Donald Trump, a man known for discharging his debts in multiple bankruptcies, is now president? How many millions did he discharge when his casinos in Atlantic City went bankrupt?
I'm not concerned with whether someone has a relatively low level of debt. (And $200,000 is what you'd expect four years of college to cost.) I'm concerned with whether they take responsibility for that debt. It's the character of the person that matters.
21
@SandraH.
So Trump is the standard? If she is no better than he, she is a poor candidate indeed.
It is not just $200,000 in debt 19 years after getting a Yale law degree, it is not paying her taxes. She owes that to those of us without Yale degrees, who pay our taxes.
But the other guy is worse, so unqualified as she is, I hope she wins
2
When it comes to debt, Trump is too easy a target. His base loves that he hasn't (yet) been put in jail for stealing and never paying his debts, while everyone else is totally repulsed by everything he does. So let's look at the Republican considered by the Republican Establishment to be the best qualified to be president in the last election, Marco Rubio. As the Times reported in June 2015, Rubio, who constantly hectors everyone about financial responsibility, is perpetually in debt. In 2012 he was paid $800,000 to write a book about what it was like to grow up as the son of Hispanic immigrants. (You can't make this stuff up). "In speeches, Mr. Rubio, spoke of his prudent plan for using the cash," invest and pay off debt. Instead he "splurged on an extravagant purchase: $80,000 for a luxury speedboat. At the time, Mr. Rubio confided...he could not resist. The 24-foot boat, he said, fulfilled a dream." Well, we all have dreams, right? And Rubio's was to not pay off his debts, and buy a yacht. Who can possibly argue with that? Rubio violated laws which would have landed any Democrat in jail, namely "intermingling personal and political money" and "using a state Republican Party credit card to pay for a paving project at his home, for travel to a family reunion, and putting his relatives on campaign payrolls." Rubio was reelected Senator and is now working to cut the national debt through "entitlement reform." It's Republican doublespeak for dismantling the social safety net.
17
I grew up in a textile town. All the jobs had gone and Main Street was mostly boarded up. My grandma taught me that three things mattered most. Faith, death (see faith) and taxes. Taxes mattered so what we had could be spread to people with even less. It seems Stacy Abrams didn’t feel like paying her fair share.
7
If politicians were actually judged fairly on their ethics and debt, Trump would not be in office. Instead, many think he is "smart" because he filed for bankruptcy and reportedly made millions in doing so, while leaving vendors and workmen holding the bag.
There is no shame in debt that is from reasonable endeavors. A business failure, student loans, medical bills, and taking care of family are good examples. I hope the Republican strategy backfires as it should.
13
The difference is the Republicans know how to take these issues and go on offense with them.
The Democrats immediately go into a defensive crouch and try to explain their way out of them.
And in a campaign season anyone will tell you if you are explaining, you are losing.
9
You watch. Financial records are going to be like medical records. We'll start to have another one of these touchy-feely, neuralgic double-standards. For example, the press always indignantly asks for medical records...for men. But you notice nobody asked for OB-GYN records on Mrs. Clinton or Ocasio-Cortez, for that matter. Let's see all HER medical records -- bcp prescriptions, pap smears, etc. After all, don't we have a right to know??? It's going to be the same now with financial records. The same people demanding Trump release his taxes for Camp X-Ray investigators will now be saying Ms. Abrams has a right to financial privacy. I am so sick of politics in this country. Actually, I feel sorry for both Trump and Abrams, as counter-intuitive as that sounds. And we wonder why people are avoiding political discussions these days. We can't take it anymore.
3
@david Not sure that OB-GYN records actually have a lot to bear on someone's ability to carry out the demands of the office. Heart failure? Yes. That's different.
7
@david, what a peculiar comment. Hillary Clinton released all her medical records. Donald Trump released a single page from a Manhattan doctor who confessed that Trump had dictated the page to him.
By tradition every candidate for the presidency releases their medical records. The fact that this isn't a legal requirement meant that Trump got away with refusing to release his records, just as he refused to release his tax returns. The only double standard is that Trump once again got away with something.
Why do you make this a male v female issue? I'm not aware that female candidates don't follow transparency rules.
6
@Guy Sajer Let US be the judge of what's relevant. Maybe there was a social disease. You can tell a lot from somebody's medical records, lol. I still say we will be more insistent on these 'disclosure' things from traditional male candidates.
Same as it always was: If you owe the bank $5000, you have a problem. If you owe the bank $5 million, the bank has a problem (cough, cough.....Manafort).
15
As a Georgia resident and lifelong liberal Democrat, there is more than just Stacey Abram's debt that is questionable. She also took an extremely high salary as director of a Georgia voter registration project which didn't seem functional the many times I tried to volunteer. In this case Brian Kemp is awful and will be so bad for the state that I will vote for Abrams as the lesser of two evils. She isn't that good of a choice - unfortunately outside interests got so excited about a black woman governor that the white woman running in the Democratic primary (note, we've never had a white woman governor in GA either but that got entirely lost) didn't have a chance.
8
Wow -- again ..another excuse. What's up with the times?
Sorry -- Abrams has made enough $$ the past couple of years to pay the IRS .... and loaning the money to her campaign is a valid excuse with these debts outstanding.
Same with Trump ..et al. It's all valid. If the voters decide they don't care .. that's the way it works?
There are too many excuses made -- running into financial problems is one thing .. not dealing with them is another. 50k is not an oversight w/taxes .. you know this is occurring.
7
Her financial position is a valid topic for discussion and consideration as a candidate. The nature of her debt, how she got there and how she runs her life should be open for examination. Of course so should her ideas and her track record on delivering on them.
I certainly considered DJT's financial situation and history as a professional deadbeat, his offensive ideas and his not existent track record in opposing him.
11
I would think that the obvious retort would be that she is actually paying back the money and not claiming bankruptcy.
The second obvious retort would be to refer to the President that did actually claim bankruptcy ( SIX times !) to the tune of billions and billions of dollars.
She could then ask the question what did the Russians ask in return for bailing him out ?
At any rate, the election is about what sort of job each candidate is going to do in office and what ideas are they going to bring to it. On these issues, there are no doubts who is going to win in November.
Abrams by 4%.
17
If she's not ashamed what's the point? Political campaigns these days too often attack an opponent's weakness in preference to other tactics, and poorly managed finances are fair game.
Ms. Abrams made $400K before taxes over the past two tax years. If she really wanted to show financial competence she could show how much of that went to debt repayment. She had at least the $50K she loaned her own campaign.
6
More important than the amount of debt is the credit rating. What's Stacey Abram's credit score as assessed by the major credit reporting agencies (Equifax, Experian, and Transunion)? If the scores are high, the amount of debt should not matter.
@Michael Klein As someone who was in collections since 1989 and owned my own agency for 11 years before selling 3yrs ago, I’ve seen thousands of credit reports and FICO scores. I’d bet the farm she owes more than just the IRS....medical, credit cards; etc. The fact that she owes the IRS and is snubbing them says a lot about her character and it’s not positive. The lien is probably on her report and she’d have a midrange score at best. But don’t take my opinion about it, ask her to release the info.
7
@Marvin Actually it says nothing about here character. It may simply be a tactical or strategic decision. There is no moral aspect to any of it. It is simply about managing a potentially adversarial relationship. Just as using debt as an issue is a strategy to deflect from Mr. Kemp's pretty clear failings. Now voter suppression in democratic republic. That is immoral.
1
For those who may be interested in the breakdown of Ms. Abrams's debt, here's a Yahoo Finance article: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/stacey-abrams-im-running-governor-200000-...
Among other highlights listed in the above article, she has $77,522 in credit card debt spread over nine accounts. I can't even imagine...
The article also points out there her Republican opponent, Brian Kemp, has over $1.2M in debt and was sued in June for failing to repay part of that.
I'm just glad I don't have to vote in Georgia. How do these people stand in front of crowds and claim they have the skills and wisdom to handle budgets far, far greater than anything they have to deal with personally?
9
@hammond
Apples and oranges. I'm fabulous with other people's money, but there have been jobs that barely paid the bills, let alone allowed me to do much else (usually those jobs had me handling other people's money). In those cases, credit cards come in handy and then its easy to see how things might get out of control. Perhaps, though, if you are able to afford to live in San Francisco, you might not have had that experience.
13
@Alexis Hamilton If you were handling other people's money but barely making ends meet, then you must not have been very good at it. I'll make a point of not voting for you either.
I grew up the son of a mostly out of work jazz musician and a stay-at-home alcoholic. By the end of my teens I was homeless in New York City. I know the temptation. But I didn't get from there to here, a very well-off San Franciscan, by taking out credit card debt.
3
@hammond
It's really not that hard. Abrams is the better candidate. Kemp was a terrible SOS,and has a lot more debt than she does. He's in charge of the election and there is already evidence that he trying to suppress the vote of minorities. Abrams obtained some of her debt by taking care of her parents when they were sick. She's being targeted because she's a woman, a minority and a Democrat.
Kemp was endorsed by Trump. Do I need to say more?
17
Thanks for writing about this absurd double standard. Look at Manafort, he has a chance to get acquitted of some of the charges against him. A man who should've been charged and convicted as a money launderer and tax evader several years ago has opportunities to be represented by very good defense attorneys merely because of his past appearance as a rich man. Contrast this with middle class people, as you have, being vilified for medical bankruptcies and you see how far out of whack Trump and his cronies are with the majority of law abiding citizens of this country.
17
Well said - so true.
3
Americans will do as the GOP commands and only vote for rich people. Because the people love their cruel masters.
7
@Chris News flash Chris. A person who has earned in excess of $400K in the past two years and lives in Georgia versus San Francisco or New York is among the rich.
5
@DC, she's certainly in the upper 10 percent of the population, which I would call upper middle-class. She's not in the 1 percent.
1
Heck, she should just declare bankruptcy, burn everyone that she has ever done business with, and refuse to release any financial records. I understand that this has worked well in the past. If elected, she can figure out how to solve her financial problems by monetizing her governorship.
As for repuclicans worrying about a double standard,that is just hilarious.
22
I'm seeing a lot of outrage from commenters on this article regarding her 54k in tax debt. While this is a high number, please take into consideration this may not be from a single year, with interest and penalties, debts incurred at the IRS can rapidly balloon, and she is apparently on a deferred payment plan.
16
@Symes
If you read the Yahoo Finance article, you'll see that instead of making quarterly payments as she admits she knew she should, she decided to spend the cash on other things.
For me the worst part is that she said her family uses her credit cards. That's financially irresponsible as then she has no control over the debt they incur on her behalf. If she wants to support them, she should put them on a budget.
At least if she wins she'll have help from the legislature and possibly some financial education in putting the budget together.
5
Reading here that Stacey Abrams contributed $50,000 of her own limited resources to her campaign gives me one more reason to send her more money.
And reading that Brian Kemp is attacking his competitor because of debt incurred in educating herself and caring for her aging parents reminds me I must write our current governor to demand that Kemp—who as Georgia’s Secretary of State presides over all state elections—be separated from any and every aspect of the upcoming gubernatorial electoral process.
Georgia is one of those states with easily hackable and unverifiable voting systems. There have been questions for years on the integrity of our election processes, but rather than working to improve them, Kemp has been laboring to purge our voter roles of many likely Democratic voters. If for no other reason than to remove yet another cloud over Georgia’s electoral process, Kemp must be removed from presiding over the election that could put him in the governor’s mansion.
I would urge like-minded commenters, whether fellow Georgians or not, to join me in both efforts.
39
Wealthy people can afford teams of lawyers and accountants to deal with their financial problems, and can also tap into family resources and connections for help when needed. Meanwhile, basic necessities of life, such as housing, education and healthcare have become major sources of financial distress for the masses. It's not just young people dealing with debt. Senior bankruptcy rates, foreclosures and student loan debts (for themselves and/or parent loans) have all increased dramatically. The recent tax heist just makes things worse by increasing income inequality and inevitably leading to further cuts in the social safety net. The trickle down myth has already been exposed as just that. Corporate profits are being channeled into stock buybacks, further enriching the rich while neglected the poorest-paid. The hypocrisy of the GOP is galling.
23
I can't speak to the double standard, but if I were voting in Georgia I'd be concerned about her personal finances. Putting money into her campaign, and thus putting her ambitions over her obligations, is not admirable.
I grew up poor, was homeless for two years, but always paid my bills. Heck, I've never even carried a balance on my (one) credit card.
14
If you were homeless, you did not pay rent or a mortgage I assume. If you had access to credit and did not use it to obtain shelter for yourself, I question your judgment. For low income people, the vast majority of America, debt is often a survival tool, not an indulgence. If you consider student debt, which Ms. Abrams has, it is also an investment in education, often an option of last resort.
17
People will see through the Republican mud-slinging and vote for the right candidate. The Republican Party is doomed on election day and they know it.
6
Liberal and Democrat though I am I do believe that how a person has managed their own affairs, personal and financial is a legitimate issue in deciding whether to vote them into a position of trust. A guy like Trump-bankruptcies, trail of ex-wives and irate partners and lovers-I wouldn’t vote for on the basis of his personal history alone. I bet a lot of my fellow Times readers would agree on that-at least as far as it relates to Trump. But I would also be concerned about Ms Abrams-who seems to have dug something of a hole for herself. If she cannot solve her own problems, why would we think she can solve Georgia’s
There is some truth in the saying: if you’re so smart, why aren’t you rich. This is something that Ms Abrams needs to address.
8
@Fred Shapiro
Rhetorical question: How much principle do owe on your mortgage, automobile, boat, whatever, Fred?
$200,000 is at the low end of the norm for working Americans (especially younger adults). For people who are not born into wealth, it is no longer possible to save money to afford an education, house, transportation with cash. There is nothing wrong with responsible debt. It is a contractual agreement to the benefit of both lender and borrower.
21
@Fred Shapiro: Ms Abrams addressed it already and Republicans trying to shame her have no credibility whatsoever when they support the "King of Debt" Trump, who thinks people who pay taxes are not smart and who still hasn't shown the American people his tax returns.
17
Fred, some people have other priorities besides “being rich” - serving others and making the world a better place, for example, bettering themselves through education, or helping their family, as this candidate has. More money is not and should not be the only goal in life for everyone, and I while that’s a fine aim for a business person, I sincerely hope it’s not the standard by which we measure our civil servants and politicians.
8
http://fortune.com/2018/04/24/stacey-abrams-debt-georgia-governor/ "I have made money mistakes, but I have never ignored my responsibilities; I will meet my obligations—however slowly but surely."
Most of us in the middle class are one illness or misfortune away from being in the same situation as Stacy Abrams. I have no qualms whatsoever about voting for her in November.
59
Kemp owes $500,000.00 and Abrahams owes $54,000.00. By Kemp’s logic he should concede immediately....as long as 500 is still a much higher number than 54 and I’m certain that it is.
52
The theory used to be that an indebted person would be at greater risk of corruption, but Trump's cabinet of multi-millionaire grifters has put paid to that idea.
38
Thanks, GOP, for making Abrams more relatable.
Now for the counter-ad, detailing her opponent's unjustified tax write-offs for his giant immigrant capturing pickup truck and explosives. My hypothesis is there's a mortgage writeoff for an outsized home, a vacation home, a boat, and some stock-related trickery too. He's probably made his income a fraction of what he ought to pay compared to his earnings. Who's the real criminal?
44
An interesting and excellent piece.
9
If you are willing to cheat, steal, and lie you have a much better chance at staying out of debt--that is until you get caught like Mr. Manafort did. It is the honest who struggle financially, and it is the honest who we want governing our cities, states and country.
24
When Trump had six bankruptcies and banks were loathe to loan him money he turned to foreign banks, many in Russia.What a hypocrisy to shame an African American woman who has some debts while overlooking the grifters and high rollers close to Trump who get money from oligarchs and the wealthy including Sheldon Edelson, a casino magnate.Trump has sold his soul, Stacey Abrams has not.
30
Georgian here. I'm not a fan of EITHER candidate (we deserve better than either of them) however I find Abrams utterly hypocritical. If you cannot manage your own personal finances, how the heck should we expect you to manage a multi-billion dollar budget? I'm not buying her response that she used $50k for her father's "cancer treatment" - he has coverage under Medicare. And in the process, cheating other taxpayers who have been greatly inconvenienced by paying their own tax bills. Abrams is not getting paid while campaigning - her priority should be paying off debt by working a job.
Meanwhile, she wants to increase taxes in Georgia... no thank you.
18
@Atlanta Girl, I wonder if you supported Trump, Mr. Bankruptcy himself? does it bother you he is raising the debt of our nation at a record pace?
12
@Atlanta Girl Medicare only covers 80% of medical bills.
16
@Atlanta Girl: If Stacey Abrams' father was younger than 65 when he had cancer, he wasnn't eligible for Medicare, which doesn't cover everything by the way, and I still need to see Trump's tax returns. At least Stacey Abrams doesn't need a $92M military parade and fly to her personal Floridian estate every weekend for millions of dollars on the tax payers' dime. And if she increases taxes in Georgia I am convinced she doesn't personally benefit from that.
17
See? This is what happens when women are allowed to have credit in their own names. Alas, the good alod days when a wife could not get credit without her husband signing off on it...
Hopefully it is obvious this is tongue-in-cheek. It is a remarkable point in time when the presudent is a philandering spendthrift, and that is somehow ok with almost 40% of voters...
16
In the first paragraph, the author makes an intriguing connection of "voter suppression" among Georgia minorities with "criminal illegals".
Many on both sides would in fact hope that voting by non-citizens is "suppressed". I wish that she had seen fit to expand on that suggestion.
8
Not once in the article does Ms. Goldberg touch on Stacey Abram's qualifications for Governor. I guess it's enough to be a black Democratic woman with progressive values. Clearly we've lost our way as a nation when we promote ideology over excellence.
12
@1truenorth:
Stacey Abrams is a Yale-educated lawyer who served for years as minority leader of the Georgia House of Representatives. She is well known to be knowledgeable, exceptionally smart, pragmatic and willing to work across the aisle for the good of all Georgians.
Her opponent is a small businessman who has stopped and started in a variety of small business efforts. He is well known for his guns, his pickup truck, his anti-immigrant stance and his support of anti-LGBT efforts that the Atlanta business community got our current governor to veto. He is also known as the only state Secretary of State in the entire country who rejected federal help in making the state’s election more secure in the wake of Russian election interference.
Goldberg’s piece did not include the relative qualifications of either candidate since her forcus was the GOP use of debt shaming as a campaign tactic against Democratic candidates.
19
She didn't address either candidate's qualifications. Why assume a disadvantage for Ms. Abrams?
4
@1truenorth
Do you know that she is not excellent? The article dealt with one issue, the double standard of how debt is dealt with between multi-millionaires and working class people. You are conflating two issues, which, I respectfully submit, is a part of the problem.
6
I do not see that as a matter of double standards; rather, a matter of common sense. Democrat or Republican makes no difference: would you vote for anybody who does not pay his or her taxes, or for anybody who owes $200,000 to a credit-card company? I would not.
Being behind in paying taxes may be excusable if you work for the minimum wage or if you have lost your job. Otherwise, it is a bad sign, a sign that you should not even ask to be elected, ever.
14
@Francoise Aline and yet here we are with the biggest deadbeat as president.
10
@Francoise Aline: Well, Trump thinks himself smart for not paying taxes and he's in debt for hundreds of millions with shady Russian lenders if not Putin himself, and he's POTUS. Very bad sign indeed... Republicans have no credibility whatsoever attacking anybody over their personal finances as long as they let Trump of the hook!
14
@Francoise Aline
Exactly; she doesn't pay her taxes but wants to be elected to spend other peoples' taxes?! Wow.
2
She certainly won't be just another good old boy driving pickups and brandishing shotguns. I have had enough of those.
91
I'm dismayed by the number of comments here that are so harsh about Ms. Abrams's debt to the IRS. The system is not simple to navigate, and it's not hard to imagine that a little ignorance of tax law over a few years can lead to a lot of unpaid taxes. We can't all afford accountants and tax attorneys to find us all the best loopholes.
I have a mortgage and carry a balance on one of my credit cards...over $150K in "debt" although I don't usually think of it that way. I guess I better not run for office!
15
@Dee S If you can't keep your taxes in order - can you govern responsibly? And don't even get me started on her raining taxes. Hers too?
3
@Dee S How much is credit card? Mortgage is not an issue.
2
@Dee S
Me too. Empathy seems so rare now. And if you are unfortunate enough to lose a job, have a serious illness in your family or face some other crisis, it is scary how problems multiple-- quickly.
5
Owing money to the IRS isn't the same as owing money to a bank. It means she failed to pay her taxes. That means she hasn't been able to manage her personal finances. That means she has other priorities higher than paying her taxes. That means that she may be willing to exchange her time and influence in office in exchange for money to solve her financial problems. That means that she spent money that she didn't have, which may be a sign that she will do the same as governor. None of this disqualifies her for office, but it does tell us more about her priorities, how she makes decisions, and possible future scandals if she gets elected.
26
@Tom Or it may mean she didn't understand the tax laws. She would not be alone in this.
3
@Tom, she has said she used a good deal of money to pay her Dad's hospital bills related to cancer. She has also said she has worked out a deal with the IRS which they do with many people. I think using your money to pay for your father's treatment should take priority in many cases over paying the IRS. Sounds like her priorities are in line and your claim about future scandals is a bad cheap shot.
12
@Tom, we have this myth in the U.S. that rich people are less likely to be self-dealing and corrupt than ordinary people who carry debt.
Trump's cabinet should have put the lie to that myth. Rich people with lots of money are often very susceptible to self-dealing.
1
"The financial problems of poor and middle-class people are treated as moral failings, while rich people’s debt is either ignored or spun as a sign of intrepid entrepreneurialism."
How can a poor or middle class person owe $50k in taxes or loan as much to anything?
20
@PDS
Because they dont have rich relatives, friends, or business associates to bail them out when they set out to run for office.
We want ordinary people who run for office to have clean finances that are in order. With rich people, we figure that they know what they are doing and are financially responsible; otherwise they would not be rich. We also know that rich people can hire experts to hide their financial disorder; sometimes they brag about how good they are at recovering from such disorder.
It is an attack on the attitudes (carefully nurtured by the rich and their sycophants) that support our present economic system not to give rich folks a pass.
15
@PDS, it's easier than you think, especially with the IRS. My former husband, who is middle-class, racked up $80,000 in debt to the IRS, most of it interest and penalties. Every time he thought he'd settled his debt, he'd learn that another penalty and more interest had been tacked on.
However, it is possible to enter into a payment plan with the IRS, which Abrams has done. That's the responsible thing to do.
6
Brett Kavanaugh, the federal judge appointed by President Trump to replace Justice Anthony Kennedy, had between $45,000 and$150,000 in credit card debt in 2016 which was paid off the following year by “friends”. He also reported a loan balance between $15,000and $50,000 in that year. Let’s keep the record fair. Not to forget we still don’t know anything about Donald Trump’s taxes, since he is hiding that information. Shall we have a conversation about politician’s finances?
124
The current governor of Georgia and his predecessor both have/had millions in business-related debt. Governor Deal had $2 million that he owed after making an ill advised investment in his daughter's business. During the campaign, his spokesperson said, "Like most Americans, Nathan Deal has suffered financial losses over the last four years. He has obligations, and he will meet them." Sonny Perdue and his cousin, Senator David Perdue (R-Ga.) invested in a trucking company that went belly up in 2015 and left many creditors unpaid. Sonny Perdue also had a $21 million loan related to his business when he ran. There is a definite double standard afoot. The rule is: whatever it is, it's ok if you're a Republican.
59
Owing 54K to the IRS is not the same as credit card debt. The questions are fully justified.
25
@Me, have you commented on the Paul Manafort trial? If you have said that it is unfair, then you are hypocrite. If you believe he deserves to be prosecuted, then you are being consistent in your views.
3
It's about time we have some elected officials who have personally experienced financial hardship in recent years.
Like so many voters, some good candidates were hit hard by the financial collapse of 2008 and are still trying to recover.
We need more elected officials like them and fewer self-dealing 'investors' like Chris Collins....
46
Goldberg conflates debt taken on by a business with personal debt. That is a pretty important distinction. Harry Truman’s clothing store went broke but he was pretty scrupulous about his personal finances. Lincoln had an early business venture go bust but he always paid his personal debts.
25
@Marc Schuhl Abrams opponent, Kemp, personally guaranteed that $500,000 loan he now refuses to repay
Nathan Deal, our current governor here in Georgia, was run out of Washington on ethics violations and got elected governor owing $5 million.
Double standard is an understatement.
77
@John Longino That $500k debt you refer to is currently being litigated so neither one of us can say how it will turn out. I can say that $500k was lent to an agricultural business in which Kemp is just one of several partners - it supports my original point that we (and you in particular) would be wise to distinguish between business debt and personal debt.
2
@Marc Schuhl, if that standard were applied to Donald Trump, he would be broke today--and he wouldn't be president. He personally guaranteed hundreds of millions of dollars invested in his Atlantic City casinos, which went belly-up. Instead of taking Trump for every penny he had, the banks absorbed the loss. As Trump likes to say, the investors "took a haircut."
Abrams, on the other hand, is paying off her debt. She doesn't plan to make anyone else take a loss.
Just curious: Why do you think it more reprehensible for an individual to be in debt than for a business to claim bankruptcy and refuse to pay its debts?
2
With 80% of Americans living paycheck to paycheck? I think money troubles will likely resonate with voters - and not in a negative way.
41
With all respect to Ms. Stacey Abrams, the uncertain economic environment, and nothing but contempt for white collar financial crimes, I still can't help but feel:
"Get your own house in order."
I couldn't imagine seeking elected office prior to ensuring my own (even basic) financial stability, regardless of age, race, gender or ethnicity. It's beggars belief that someone who cannot keep their own "house in order" seeks to tell constituents how to do so.
Even as an opinion column, Ms. Goldberg could have done a more convincing job in helping us to understand. If this is all we democrats have - attacking Trump et al - I worry for the upcoming midterms.
Do better.
27
@factumpactum, if everyone running for governor of Georgia had to get their own financial house in order before seeking elected office, Georgia would have had no governor for the last several decades. In fact Georgia voters would have no candidate to vote for in this year's election.
Put things in perspective: by today's standards, $200,000 is a modest debt. Many students finishing college carry $200,000 in debt. Many families paying for cancer treatments carry $200,000 in debt. If you're responsibly paying off that debt--which was the result of unfortunate circumstance, not wild speculation or spending--then I'm fine with it.
I'm not fine with someone who tries to write off $500,000 in debt, as Brian Kemp does.
5
We should have a good, long look at her tax returns, to ensure she is not beholden to foreign powers and oligarchs.
13
Yes we should, right after Trump releases his tax returns...I’ll wait.
15
There should not be a double standard and of course with this 'president' we see that non-payment of taxes is no bar to federal office. Having said that, I wish I had the income to merit a $50,000 IRS bill.
5
Kudos to those with personal debt from college loans who run - and win - in every state, at every level, and challenge the laws that systematically created the college loan burden.
The hypocrisy - “smart business” for the wealthy to have multi-millions in loan debt, yet shameful for the non-wealthy person to have debt - must end.
Yet it is critical that America fix policies that cause huge strains on American families:
“Jobs” that do not pay a living wage
Health insurance unaffordable to many
College costs & loans spiraled out of control
Fervently hope that Millennial candidates who live these issues win and actively change them.
27
@Suzanne
You do understand the irony of what you are writing, I hope. This is debt to the IRS - it’s related to her income, not her school debt. I’d say that she has a job with a “living” wage to owe the IRS 54K and to have 50K in cash to donate to her campaign.
8
@Me, you understand that she is paying back what she owes the IRS with interest?
I don't see any irony in paying your debts.
Donald Trump, on the other hand, brags that he's smart because he doesn't pay taxes, and his supporters cheer. Brian Kemp is one of those supporters.
Abrams situation certainly seems unique in that she (a). Owes the IRS not a private entity and (b). Doesn’t exactly seem Middle class if she’s racked up that large of a tax bill and (c). Would be in a position of responsibility for the state’s budget were she elected.
It’s not debt shaming to say that someone who is going to argue for more spending of tax dollars ought herself to contribute to tax revenues of the land. It’s not debt shaming to say that someone who has $50,000 dollars on hand is neither poor nor middle class. It’s not debt shaming to also say that this money should go first to the IRS not to her campaign.
It should also be pointed out that public officials who owe large sums of money are uniquely susceptible to corruption and to the appearance of corruption and impropriety.
We should be shaming DNC officials for not doing a better job vetting Abrams. Most likely the identity politics obsessed wing of the party wash happy to overlook these red flags in order to check a race box and a gender box.
23
@Jon, please. Goldberg is pointing out the double standard, which you do nothing to refute.
Let's concede that she's an upper-middle class professional since she's been minority leader of the Georgia House. If she owns a house, she can take out a home equity loan for that $50,000. I doubt that she had it on hand. That's what middle class people do.
And she is paying off her debt to the IRS under the terms of her agreement with them.
What do you think about Brian Kemp trying to write off a $500,000 debt? I notice you didn't mention it.
1
$200,000? That's called a mortgage. Maybe a down payment depending on where you live. Abrams totally has the opportunity to turn Kemp's argument on its head. I don't think we even need to go as far as Trump's tax returns for this one. Releasing a few credit ratings would suffice. The optics are bad when the former Republican campaign manager is currently on trial for falsifying loan documents. This isn't a tough debate to win.
The question is whether the debate really matters at all. I think Kemp is just trying to turn out supporters in the midterm election. No one is convinced when he attacks Abrams. The act is more a call to arms. He's talking to people who would already vote against Abrams. He just wants to rile them up and get them to the polls. He's also draining resources Abrams could be using elsewhere. Someone now has to sit around and decide whether to respond to the attack and how.
Shrewd politics but sleazy tactics. I hope Georgia sends Kemp packing.
14
@Andy
Truly excellent point about turning this argument against Kemp. I like the potential contrast between Abrams and rich people backing Kemp who have $ 500k+ mortgages. Are they irresponsible? Abrams made an investment in her education and her future. She has skin in the game and is betting on herself. Isn't that exactly what conservatives should value?
4
Oh, I get it... I'll continue to pay my taxes, so that politicians like Ms. Adams can fund their campaigns instead of paying what they owe. Makes sense
13
She has a graduate degree from Yale! I bet more than half her debt is due to her education, and in most cases, it is not fiscally sound to pay off education debt ahead of time bc the interest is so low.
43
Yet again the Republican Party plays the do-as-I-say-not-as-I- do card. Let's see if yet again they get away with it. You just have to wonder about folks that can't apply the same standards to themselves that they so viciously apply to others.
5
And who paid Supreme Court nominee Kavanaugh's $60000-$200,000 debt that mysteriously was paid off last yeat? And for MLB season baseball tickets, credit card debt, and a country club membership?
36
Excellent editorial--right on the money! "As the system stands, people with thousands of dollars in debt are shamed, while those with millions of dollars in debt rule the world."
We are still dealing with the fallout of the 2008 financial crisis where the millionaires and billionaires got bailed out and ordinary Americans got the shaft.
Trump used his bankruptcies in the most corrupt way possible. Trump ran as the change candidate but rules as business as usual. Change is in the air for 2018. You can't fool all the people forever.
30
The question of Ms. Abrams' tax debt is particularly familiar. The IRS offers installment plans to help taxpayers pay off their debt. Ms. Abrams claims to be on an installment plan so that her tax debt is being addressed in cooperation with the IRS.
If Ms. Abrams is telling the truth, then Kemp's allegations are groundless and he is one more lying Republican. However, as you would expect, every installment agreement is documented by a written contract. Ms. Abrams has been called on to produce the coontract and she has not done so.
If Ms. Abrams is not on a plan, and she made a loan to her campaign rather than paying her taxes, she has likely violated 26 USC Section 7203, violation of which is a misdemeanor. Ms. Abrams merely has to produce the contract to resolve this dispute. That hasn't happened. That is very familiar territory.
The amount Ms. Abrams owes isn't in the millions. But the criminal statute doesn't require that. If you willfully fail to pay your taxes by a material amount, you have committed a crime. And there is no doubt under the law that $54,000 is material.
Ms. Abrams needs to disclose her contract,. Ms. Goldberg's faith that everything is in order is naive.
13
Stop ! This isn't debt shaming, this is politics ! Negative information about a candidate has sadly always been exploited. Personal fiscal responsibility is not unreasonable for voters to consider as a factor when evaluating who to vote for in any election. Don't sit there and pretend that if the situation were reversed the Democrats won't highlight this against a Republican candidate and use it the same way. A recent similar example is with Bret Kavanaugh but I didn't see you speaking out against that.
The volume of your hypocrisy is deafening.
13
@Norville T Johnson, Abrams is not shaming Kemp for his attempt to discharge a $500,000 debt. No hypocrisy here at all.
I haven't seen the Democratic ads attacking Kavanaugh for his debts. Are they playing in New York?
1
It could be added that Trump never paid his bills in full, usually offering a fifty cents on a dollar settlement using shoddy workmanship as a rational and litigation as the only alternative. Trump then would invite the same vendors to bid on future projects.
15
The campaign that Kemp is using does indeed shame. In order to watch the local or national evening news one has to sit through the ads that attempt to shame and ridicule Ms Abrams. Her ads, however, do not attempt to do anything other than state her position on various issues important to the citizens of Georgia. Kemp has not posted one word on his own policy other than he is more like Trump than anyone else along with the usual good old boy dog whistles. It will be a tight race for sure but I think there are enough folks both in the cities and in the countryside who can smell a skunk and Kemp is surely one fine example.
31
There is always a double-standard when it comes to conservatives. Not only does this make itself apparent in issues of money and personal debt, but also in personal morality. Would a black Democratic political candidate ever have a chance to be elected if he / she had five children by three different women, and two divorces? Only in the "family values" GOP could such a thing happen without any political consequences for such a person.
60
@Raindog63 Fellow democrat and I strongly disagree. Having five children with three different parents signals failure to understand the needs of children, namely, stability and consistency. Your example shows neither.
Just as that parent fails to show responsibility in childbearing/parenting choices, I see no reason to think the same wouldn't happen with constituents. I don't want someone with irresponsible decision making representing me.
It's not a question of morality. It's simply a terrible choice, and children suffer the most.
5
Fiscal irresponsibility? That kind of sound like our federal government and most of the states. I think that someday individual debt and poverty will become a crime, especially if someone's skin tone is less than white.
8
Ahhhh, once again the total hypocrisy. Will no one on the Democratic side refute this despicable attack? Will no one call attention to the fact that Kemp's hero is donny trump who has declared bankruptcy multiple times? Someone who along with his cabinet members and WH are totally focused on siphoning as much money from the American tax payer as possible?
If the Democratic party can't slap down this laughable attack like the lightweight, baseless fly that it is then they need to rethink politics.
28
I won’t be voting in the Georgia gubernatorial Armageddon on November 6th, but if I could, then Stacey Abrams would get my vote. And Brian Kemp would probably come after me in his “big truck” to “round up illegals.” That would be me, born in the U.S.A. 74 years ago; but no matter. He and “his kind” have been suppressing votes like mine since Reconstruction began (it never really ended but that’s a tea for another day).
I would place my hopes on a woman who knows all about the daily down-and-dirty than some guy in a suit who never was taught how to make his bed. If politics boils down to local finances, I’m putting my trust in someone who has had a money problem and wants to solve it. I don’t trust folks living on Easy Street who sit in the shade all day (or night), drink mint juleps and then complain about someone else’s problems.
I hope Ms. Abrams makes a point of letting Georgians know that her opponent has been mouse-quiet about the $1-trillion annual welfare check that Donald Trump wrote last year—with Kemp’s approval—that Georgia taxpayers will wind up shouldering, along with the rest of us.
I hope, when (if) they debate, she’ll ask him, “how do you feel about that?” And “how fair is that?” Or “how does bailing out the rich help the struggling poor?”
I can’t wait for Brian Kemp’s answers. He won’t have any.
13
“As evidence mounted that Russian hackers were attempting to disrupt the 2016 elections, President Obama directed his Department of Homeland Security…. to work with states to secure their voting systems as "critical infrastructure." Kemp was the only state election official who declined the help.”
That’s what we have to live with here in Georgia. Kemp is a political hack if there ever was one.
Stacey Abrams, Spelman College grad, magna cum laude. A Harry S. Truman Scholar, and a graduate of Yale Law School. And a very good person that resonates with the people here in Georgia. She is doing all she can to protect and improve upon Medicaid for the needy throughout the State.
Stacey Abrams will have my vote. And this could be the election cycle that turns GA back to where it belongs. Democratic.
31
So who should you trust? Who should you believe when they say they're on your side? A self-proclaimed billionaire like Trump who inherited millions of dollars and has a long record of bankruptcies and stiffing sub-contractors (a choice, not a necessity)? A millionaire like Brian Kemp whose claim to fame is suppressing the vote and owning a truck and a gun? Or a woman of color who pulled herself up by her bootstraps and took out loans to get an education? There was a time when Republicans admired people like Stacey Abrams. The moral failing is not with people who struggle and can't make ends meet without taking on debt. The moral failing is with people who are born with everything handed to them on a silver platter and not only fail to give back, but would deny others equal opportunity and have no compunction about squashing the "little people" under their thumbs. If you can't see the difference between the Stacey Abrams and the Donald Trumps and Brian Kemps of the world, we are indeed lost.
23
Debt like that would bother me no matter who the candidate. Definitely.
15
@DLP, does Kemp's $500,000 debt bother you?
The point of the column is that there is a double standard. Stacy Abrams is shamed for her debt, accumulated from student loans and medical bills, while Kemp skates on his much larger debt.
3
This is a variation on the old line that if you owe the bank a thousand dollars and can't pay, you're in big trouble; if you owe the bank a million dollars and can't pay, the bank is in big trouble.
5
The comments on this column are as scary as anything I’ve read in the New York Times in a very, very long time. This is the voice of the people — dark and nasty and angry and stupid — and it’s terrifying.
8
If this is an attempt to highlight that republicans can exhibit immoral, dirty and wicked behavior, there’s nothing new here.
2
So we've seen hit piece after hit piece on Supreme Court nominee Judge Kavanaugh because of his credit card bills. I don't recall seeing your outraged column Michelle. Hypocrisy abides.
10
Perhaps we should focus on shaming the politicians whose net worth has doubled during their political or post-political careers; or those whose spouses and significant others become remarkably wealthy during the politician's public service.
Or we could make it a legal requirement for public office holders to file their tax returns -- as the leading suspect has consistently refused to do.
45
It would seem the the Democratic National Committee might help either directly or through and appeal for contributions. I remember how rich Republicans worked to make Ronald Reagan debt-free and actually wealthy. I know I'd be glad to contribute, Income inequality is a major issue and Stacey Abrams should be able to turn this to her advantage by exposing the immense corruption and greed of the Republican Party. I've lived in the South and the model is low taxes and even lower services. The rich get to keep their money and everyone else scrambles to make ends meet. Ms. Abrams may be the poster woman for the Southern model of governance and why it needs to change.
10
US households hold a total of $13 trillion in debt, and earlier this year student loan debt surpassed $1.5 trillion.
Around 80% of American households are in debt. Debt is a fact of life for most consumers, and it isn't our fault that the only way to get out of short term money problems or to increase long-term earning potential is to shoulder increasing amounts of personal financial risk.
I would much rather vote for someone who I know owes money to the government in the form of student loans than someone who claims to be debt-free backed by a shadowy network of PACs and mega-donors.
30
In today's economy few people are debt free. High income earners rack up hundred of thousands, if not millions, in attempts to evade the IRS. Their debt is legal and considered moral. Why and how Ms Abrams incurred this debt should not be an issue. Only in partisan politics would a possible loser raise a non-issue.
10
Who would I empathize with, a billionaire that doesn’t pay their fair share or a middle class person that got financially jammed up?
27
I did not support Georgia's current governor, Nathan Deal. I didn't like his politics, but I was even more concerned about his mismanagement of his own finances: he didn't just have debt--he had declared bankruptcy after bailing out an offspring's business.
I've been pleasantly surprised by Deal. His leadership has been more moderate and more fiscally responsible than I expected, and he has even championed some legislation I applaud, such as criminal justice reform. So I would no longer reject a candidate based primarily on the state of their personal finances.
That said, Stacey Abrams is one of the most exciting candidates to come along in Georgia in many years. She's whip-smart, honest, experienced, attuned to the problems of Georgia's citizens, and charismatic. I've been a fan ever since I watched her preside over hearings on a local issue I was involved in almost twenty years ago. She was MOST impressive.
Whether she can prevail over the vote suppression her unappealing opponent has been able to consolidate during his years as Secretary of State is an open question. Not since November of 2016 have I seen a starker choice.
45
@Susan Crawley
Is it my imagination or a fact that being Secretary of State is a sure-fire road to the governor’s office? To be in the best position to manipulate an election by messing with voting mechanics?
I have no respect for anyone who runs for public office with a gun proudly on his lap, using a boy to prove the point of his imagined power.
2
A candidate with financial issues - past or present - isn’t a deal breaker for me (I was a Rubio supporter), but it IS fair to ask why the candidate got into such debt before electing them to office. Some reasons are better than others.
11
Trump owed $30 million in taxes to the state of New Jersey for his now failed bankrupt casinos. Then his good old buddy Chris Christie gave him the deal of the century and he was able to settle that debt for 5 or 6 million dollars. Why is someone who claims to be worth billions of dollars and one of the most successful businessman of the last century, can't pay a 30 million dollar tax bill? I can understand someone with $200k in debt struggling to pay $50k to the IRS. Trump's companies went bankrupt while he was living a lavish extravagant lifestyle. But people can understand that better than someone in debt to pay for their own education and taking care of family members? Bankruptcy after cancer or divorce is a reality for at least a 3rd of the middle-class people I know.
Why is it so easy for non wealthy people to end up deep in debt and often unable to dig their way out in our economy? Why can wealthy people so easily use debt to finance their failures while rarely taking a personal financial hit?
111
"The financial problems of poor and middle-class people are treated as moral failings"
By whom? Rich people?
I like her better because she has experience of the problems of real people. She knows. Maybe she understands, which she can show voters.
The political class just doesn't get it. Large numbers of voters reject them, because they don't know, don't understand, and won't do anything about it.
They do only the same nothing about it, and status quo goes on and on as they enjoy power all the way to the bank.
The Other Guy is Terrible !!! That's what they've got, all they've got.
One of the best Federal judges I knew was a complete arrogant jerk until life made him hurt, really hurt really badly. He changed. He became a good man, with a heart for others.
It isn't just an intellectual exercise. We need candidates who feel it and know how it feels.
So she has personal money problems? Good. Very good.
15
this is what has to be said by the candidates who have financial troubles. - Normal people run into financial problems, the world is hard for middle and lower income people living paycheck to paycheck. There is no backup trust fund, no off-shore accounts. This is the real world and everyone deserves second chances for things that are or are not their fault. This has nothing to do with my policies and my principals, which is what we should be discussing.
55
So glad to see that Goldberg does not see Trump’s serial bankruptcies as an issue or failing.
2
@QED. Huh? Where would you get that idea?
2
@QED Apparently it's a selective failing.
2
After experiencing the oil bust, and S&L and bank failures of the 80's, I have a reasonable respect for bankruptcy, and plenty of empathy for people with honest debt. I also know dishonest debt when I see it. I draw the line at taxes and unpaid child support. This woman is a deadbeat. Why is she delinquent on her taxes? What is she doing to pay them? Justin Clark is a deadbeat, too. Second jobs and side gigs pay taxes. Is Abrams working? Does Clark have a weekend job? An Uber driver who knows his way around the District is always a nice surprise. Kemp sounds like a deadbeat, too. Why hasn't he paid his supplier? The story doesn't help us with that one. Kushner is a world-class deadbeat, as is his father-in-law, but he doesn't belong in a story about the Georgia Governor race, and the two deadbeats looking for a pension.
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Such scrutiny! Nothing compared to the debt of Marco Rubio. I wish Ms Abrams well. Compared to most Americans her debt is nothing unusual.
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Owing $54,000 to the IRS is highly unusual....
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You should mention the woman running for governor in texas. She was attacked because she owed a few thousand dollars in property taxes.
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An excellent point. And Democrats tend to feel remorse for any real or perceived personal shortcomings, while Republicans shrug them off. How do so many politicians amass such great wealth while serving "the public"? Why are their campaign funds used as slush funds and for paying legal fees for misconduct? Do we even have enough time in the day to examine all the sweetheart deals?Is debt caused by cancer or taking care of family members even in the same universe as shell corporations, casino bankruptcies, and Russian moneylending? Oh, and just so we can have all the facts, where are the tax returns?
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" The financial problems of poor and middle-class people are treated as moral failings, while rich people’s debt is either ignored or spun as a sign of intrepid entrepreneurialism." Debt is debt regardless of social class. However, "poor and middle-class people" (with $200,000 debt) who run for public office are in danger of drowning faster and seeking help by whatever means as quickly as available. This kind of argument is what makes liberals look silly.
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@Dlud
I guess you better stick with voting for rich people then. You're decision.
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Debt: bad for poor and middle class people, perfectly fine for the rich.
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@Dlud "seeking help by whatever means as quickly as available."
You mean by laundering money for Russian oligarchs after no legitimate bank will give you a loan?
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The irony is that many of our greatest presidents were men of modest means. Jefferson was broke at the time of his death. Grant finished his memoirs the day before he died in order to provide for his family. And Lincoln wasn't exactly welcomed with open arms when he married into the Todd family in Kentucky.
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Why would voters elect someone who appears to be unable to keep their own house clean? Myopic lifestyles do not belong in decision-making positions in which tax payers are fitting the bill paying for their poor choices.
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@Pilot So you didn't vote for Trump?
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@Pilot
Yes Pilot, it is clearly a mystery why people voted for Trimp.
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In this day and age most Americans are in debt.
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I am begging minority voters: all of you who are able and qualify, even it if is difficult logistically, register to vote! and then make sure you DO VOTE. vote in every election no matter how small you might think it is. school board members go on to run for city councils and then for assemblyman and higher offices. the only way forward to fairness and beating down the crushing system minorities have to deal with is to seize your right to vote.
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Owing tens of thousands of dollars in back taxes while pushing costly social programs paid for with taxes is the height of hypocrisy.
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@M
Not when you're on a payment plan with the IRS, it isn't.
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@M. With this particular issue it’s terribly difficult to be polite. This comment is virtually a non sequitur. What do her back taxes have to do with the responsibility of a civilized government to take care of its citizens? Absolutely nothing. They are only related if you think a government should not take care of its citizens and you have a distaste for black women running for office. This column, more than almost any other in the Times in the last several months, has evoked comments that make me sick to my stomach. The ugliness, selfishness, nastiness, intellectual vacancy, moral bankruptcy, and ignorance of many Americans know no bounds. It’s easier and easier to believe there is no hope left for representative government for a people who would sacrifice their own liberties on the altars of racism and fury. God help us. We’ll need it.
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Why is it that “social programs” are “costly” but trillions to the military industrial complex —and tax breaks for billionaires—are shrugged off.
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Debt shaming : what’s old is new again. Next, her detractors will be alluding to Debtors Prisons and “ Welfare “. This is absolutely about her gender and race. If this is the worst they can dig up, Hallelujah. How many white males owe millions to various Banks, for speculative “ investments “ and downright Scams ?? And must I mention the multiple bankrupt Conman occupying the Oval Office ??? Get to work, People. We must wipe them out in November. It’s the only way to contain that Creature.
Seriously.
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Seriously Michelle? This is politics and this is a legitimate issue.
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@Nyalman But apparently not Trumps multiple bankruptcies, despite his claim of being a billionaire.
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It’s certainly true that there is a double standard here. But massive personal debt and unpaid taxes are legitimate issues to consider in electing our leaders. I wish the Democrats had run as many TV ads pointing out Trump’s many bankruptcies as they did of the ad showing him making fun of a disabled reporter.
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Here here!! This is a candidate I will contribute money to, both because she needs it and the fact that she is terrific. Google any of her speeches and interviews and you will see the kind of vibrant, dynamic leader that is so needed in today's politics. She deserves support and needs it to battle against the hypocracy and dirty tricks of the opposition. She needs overwhelming turnout and financial support to win big. Nothing less will do. Thank you Michelle Goldberg for this article.
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What this column says to me is that prominent Democrats are as shameless as Republicans in playing the "only rich white people are qualified to serve in public office" card.
Although both parties are nowhere equally evil, neither one serves the interests of ordinary Americans; only the wealthy who lean left or who swim in the right-wing cesspool of Republicanism.
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I am sure I'm not the only woman who was aware of the old adage that each woman is one paycheck or one husband away from bankruptcy. Now, we're one student loan or one sick child away from the whole house of cards collapsing. It is time to examine whether debt has gone too far in this country in terms of student loans or other debt.
The Republican lords and masters want to keep it that way. I appreciate Ms. Goldberg's bringing to our attention that there are still Republicans who want to debt shame their competition because these people have a point. The deck has been stacked against those who believed that getting an education is the key to long-term financial success.
More power to the women and minorities who are putting themselves out there as an alternative to the country club Republicans. May we continue to have these discussions about personal debt foisted on those who are simply attempting to make it through life and striving for a better life for themselves, their children and parents and all of us. It is past time for personal debt being used to exclude those who challenge the good old boys in politics or the marketplace to end.
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I hope someone has started a go-fund-me for Abrams' college debt. Go-fund-me would keep it from being a political donation that would require a quid pro quo.
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These candidates need to make ads answering these horrible opponents who use the difficulties of working class people (who DO work) as weapons. Hey, Stacey and Bryce, get on TV and tell people how you’re just like the rest of us - get on there and be proud and FACE them down. You have nothing to apologize for. Wear your “regular people’s problems” as badges of honor - go for it. We need YOU, not those rich and privileged hypocrites in office. NOW.
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You know who else was debt shamed in a race for Georgia Governor? Current Republican Governor Nathan Deal.
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Stacy Abrams should ask Kemp to tell Trump to release his tax returns and explain why he's been under audit for years.
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So-called debt-shaming" is no more pernicious than calling your opponent racist because he was endorsed by Trump.
Any candidate who owes the IRS $50,000 should expect the scrutiny--and ignominy. There is no excuse for a candidate for governor to not pay their own bills.
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@Liberty hound
Abrams is paying her bills. She just hasn't finished paying them yet. Unlike bankrupt like Trump, who defaulted on them.
And her opponent seems racist not because he was endorsed by Trump but because he is running on a racist, anti-immigrant platform.
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@Liberty hound
Trump tends to have a soft spot for the white identity crowd, and they, him. Stop pretending that there is "nothing to see here" when it comes to the GOP and race.
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I don't care if the candidate is black, white, male, female, or came from Mars. Someone that can't manage their personal finances should not be managing a state's finances.
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@Ed. How utterly dispiriting. What can you possibly be talking about? I’m sorry, but I don’t believe your opening sentence. I believe you are fine with a white male who repeatedly goes bankrupt and notoriously stiffs his creditors, but you are not all right with a black woman who has the same problems as many Americans who went into debt to finance their educations. (Tell us you didn’t vote for Trump but we won’t believe you.) I wonder, has it ever occurred to you that virtually nobody in Europe goes into debt to finance their educations? That four years at a university in Germany or France costs a tiny fraction of what it does here? You probably call that socialism. Your short comment, dismissive of all people who have ever had any financial difficulty in their lives, is so reprehensible and so filled with the stench of ignorance that I would say it has pretty much ruined my day. Thanks so much. By the way, you might stop dehumanizing people with relative pronouns because it’s an obvious “tell.” You say “someone that” when most of us say “someone who.” If you think that’s meaningless, then you think language is meaningless.
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@Ed
they probably shouldn’t be running the country, either.
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Didn't the current governor of Georgia declare personal bankruptcy shortly before taking office?
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What distorted race baiting logic. Just to be topical, people who are in debt and show fiscal irresponsibility can't get a security clearance. They are too much of a security risk.
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@Aristotle Gluteus Maximus then how did Jared get a security clearance?
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@Sandra Wise
Nepotism.
But that doesn't alter the situation of the person running for governor of Georgia. How is she going to pay off those debts if she gets elected? if she isn't elected?
@Aristotle Gluteus Maximus Apparently she is systematically paying it off, why don't ask why her opponent thinks he can stiff his creditors out of $500,000 when he is a millionaire and should have no problem paying it back?
Double standard. Of course.
Brian Kemp running for governor with his trusty shotgun on his lap is laughable. Appalling. The scary thing is that too many Georgians share his regrettable prejudice. These same people do not seem to understand that his opponent stands for higher values and will do far more for them than Mr. Big Bucks would think of doing.
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"Obviously, men who don’t pay their child support on time are not exactly sympathetic..."
Obviously. Because the child support systems are 100% fair in every state--and all men who fail to pay child support are obviously deadbeats trying to avoid their responsibilities.
Of course, you might read this NPR story:
https://www.npr.org/2015/11/19/456352554/from-deadbeat-to-dead-broke-the...
6
@tanstaafl Did you not read the whole article about Brice? Cancer treatment and no insurance. Also he and his ex wife worked out the non payment and it has been paid in full. He fell on temporary hard times, but proved himself a moral man by paying the outstanding support. What's the problem?
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@Sandra Wise The problem is he paid off the child support after he became a candidate. If he proved himself a moral man to you by paying up in order not to be a deadbeat while running for office, you need to reexamine your standards.
Let this not be an issue for Abrams. Quite disgraceful that it is. And take the time to read this:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/11/opinion/sunday/brian-kemp-enemy-of-de...
I donated to Abrams and hope you will too.
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Uhh...Democrats tried to shame and disrupt the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh because he had racked up credit card debt buying baseball tickets for himself and friends (debt he promptly paid off). This was obviously a failed tactic. And now you're whining because Republicans are shaming Stacey Abrams for actual debt. Boo hoo hoo. What hypocrites y'all are.
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@Joe Schmoe Interesting. You see no difference between debt incurred for health and education and debt incurred through buying baseball tickets?
No wonder this country is in trouble. This inability to make distinctions is appalling.
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@Joe Schmoe. I’m sorry, Mr. Schmoe, but @Sarah, above, nails you. You think the excesses of a guy trying to appear richer than he is, and going into debt for it, and then trying to hide the debt, and then lying about the debt, and it’s all about living beyond his means — you think that’s the same thing as borrowing to go to college. @Sarah is right, and scarily so. That kind of thinking is exactly why our country is going down the tubes at the hands of a demagogue. I would stop worrying about defending Mr. Kavanaugh, if I were you, and start worrying about how your children will fare under a Supreme Court that cares only about corporations, the very rich, and white Christian male heterosexuals. If any of your children are CEOs of Fortune 500 companies, they’ll be fine. If they’re not and they’re Jewish, Muslim, gay, poor, female, or black, probably not so much. Good luck with that.
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There is his guy I heard bragging about how he is the King of Debt....what’s his name...?
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@Blank
Let’s not forget that the king of debt failed to pay many contractors for work that they did for him. He also had several bankruptcies. He ended up in the White House.
1
The incurrence of debt by a business is typically a complicated, structured, negotiated transaction.
CFOs and accountants are reviewing the balance sheet and cash flow, investment bankers are looking at alternative fund raising methods, the banks are setting leverage covenants and lawyers are structuring and negotiating terms.
Most professionals wouldn't normally think of a business with debt as being mismanaged.
Sure, excess leverage can be problematic, but borrowing alone is not necessarily a sign of anything really. Finance theory teaches there is actually a optimal amount of mix of equity and debt capitalization.
I'd say personal debt in the form of a real estate mortgage is also pretty innocuous so long as it is not excessive relative to income.
But to me excessive credit card debt is a sign of personal financial mismanagement. Credit card interest is crazy high. All non-essential spending should be cut back before you start to pile on credit card debt.
12
I'm so glad to see your column, Michelle. I try to follow your writing whenever I can. I am so fired up that Stacey Abrams is campaigning so successfully. She has not a small record serving people in previous years. Wasn't she a Councilwoman?
The ground swell of newer community leaders is encouraging; so many progressive minded people who have no natural proximity are engaged in similar grass-roots campaigns.
The voters in Georgia made an error of judgement in supporting
the current president and I think they will not want to soil their hands by voting for the handpicked boy of Donald Trump. Stacey Abrams will get the vote. Georgia needs her vitality!
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@Frank Correnti. Michelle has been one of my favorite authors for many years - go back and read her books. Welcome to the Michelle Goldberg fan club - I absolutely LOVE her. She speaks for me!!!
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@Frank Correnti
She was actually the Democratic leader in the State Senate.
8
I am encouraged to see that real people with real financial challenges are seeking political office. Why would anyone rely on second- and third-generation trust fund babies to understand our needs and the solutions.
I am nothing but encouraged by this movement. I encourage candidates to embrace their personal challenges and not hide them. The voters understand, the incumbents do not.
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@William Young I have nothing against working people getting elected and doing public service, but not all financially comfortable people are trust fund babies - many have worked very hard and accomplished a lot in their careers and businesses and are fully valid representatives as well.
1
Money makes money, work makes a living. This has been true for a long time, and has increased in business until it is nearly impossible to grow a new business. It was intended to be this way to eliminate competition, big business requires big money. But once you break over the threshold the game changes, and using other peoples money is the rule.
When I was trying to expand from a one crew construction company doing small jobs to taking on larger jobs with higher potential profits the cash flow problem was the main hindrance. I could not find reasonable financing for a business loan, my bank simply refused even though we had a 10 year history with it, and investment capital wanted 20% interest. With a maximum 5 to 10% profit on completed jobs 20% on a loan was ridiculous. Fortunately credit cards were offering 0% on 1 year loans and by working different CC offers I was able to carry $100,000 in loans for over a year which was needed to get over the cash flow nut. Living life with the knowledge that any one job that fails to pay on time could cause the whole thing to collapse causes a lot of lost sleep and anxiety, but there was no other way to expand. Today it is crowd funding that allows regular folks to grow their business. Wish it was around when I needed it. Don't look for help from those with money, your not going to get it. This "Free Market" economy detests competition.
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I agree completely with the article but is interesting that nobody has mentioned that this is common practice by HR departments hiring managers or anyone with responsibility for company finances. The common theory is if you cant handle your personal finances you cant not be trusted to manage the company’s/country’s finances. This limits the dreams and options of the same class of people this article is defending. It could be considered but a valid justification should be enough to end it. Furthermore most elected officials have a limited and indirect role in budgeting at best.
9
If Stacy Abrams isn't an example, and truly representative, for Georgia voters, I don't know what is. She knows what most Georgians are going through, and she will work to make your government perform well for everyone. And, oh my, she is really really smart, but it cost her a lot to get all that education, which should never have put her, or anyone, in so much debt. Millions of Americans know all about that, and need some decent representation.
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We used to own a small business and were constantly at odds with our banks regarding loans. It was pointed out to me by a friend that 'if you default on $100,000: it is your problem. if you default on $100,000,000: it is the bank's problem.'
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If I were on of these candidates I would put my debt in an add.
Mr. Bryce had to declare bankruptcy due to the high cost of medical bills and lack of affordable insurance that the GOP is undercutting by chipping away at the ACA.
Ms. Abrams has debt due to the high cost of an education and the lack of help for middle class people who have to care for a loved one who is ill or in crisis. More and more of us have children that have needs and parents that also place strains on our financial situations.
Shout it from the roof tops because there are so many of us in this same situation.
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@Michael Massi How many of you in this situation owe $50K in back taxes? We're not talking about student loans or debt from medical bills. We're talking about a lot of income for which taxes were not paid.
And instead of paying her taxes, she decided to support her ambitions.
I'd love to vote for a progressive Democrat, but I struggled for years as a very poor person and managed to pay all my bills. I certainly would not have chosen the expedience of my ambitions over paying my debts.
7
@Michael MassiI '...would put my debt in an add...Shout it from the roof tops....'
Exactly the right strategy. Democrats have withered (and run) from this strategy for far too long. Republicans are merciless accusers (often outright liars), but we cannot simply wish the accusations away. We must fight back with truth, justice, and because it's the American way.
Shut them down with the truth, the facts
2
@hammond So you wold rather vote for the oligarchic Republican who stiffed his creditors out of $100,000s?
Thanks for this insightful op-ed. One person's debt is another person's business strategy. Hope voters see through the smoke and mirrors!
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