One more member of that club that exclusive Trump wants to join - dictators with absolute powers. Trump probably can't find find Hungary on a map or even pronounce Orban's name. All Trump knows is that someone has or uses powers he would like to have.
4
I'm not getting grounds for such concern here. China throws dissident politicians and journalists into dungeons--yet our society seems perfectly content to have normal relations with the Chinese government. Orban seems popular with his people and has every right to oppose mass immigration and other policy mandates from Brussels. And not everyone in this world would describe Mr. Soros benignly as a "philanthropist" as the Times does. He's a fierce leftist partisan and, to me, a vicious opponent of democratic values Americans have traditionally cherished.
4
Two thoughts on reading this article:
1. Re-read the 1st paragraph and note its parallels to Trump's presidency, including the "methodical erosion of checks and balances; consider especially Trump's stripping John Brennan of his security clearance.
2. Our fathers (mine) and grandfathers fought a brutal war some 70 years ago to put an end to fascism, the kind cropping up in Hungary and elsewhere.
What is WRONG with Trump and Steve Bannon? They and their supporters are an affront to the memory of those brave men and women--their own parents and grandparents.
4
Add another demagogue to Trump’s list of most preferred foreign leaders.
Trump is carefully cultivating these relationships.
Who do you think Trump will call upon for assistance when he loss his re-election bid?
2
Orban's "allies control the major regional newspapers, which provide supportive coverage of Mr. Orban’s anti-immigrant agenda and his methodical erosion of the country’s democratic checks and balances. Critical, independent outlets are mostly absent."
Of course Trump cozies up to Orban - he's got control the likes of which Trump yearns...nay, salivates...to have under his thumb.
4
Bannon is apparently returning to the U.S. apparently abandoning his quest to destroy the EU to take on a new challenge - to save Trump from impeachment.
Perhaps Orban's seeming success suggests that Bannon's work in Europe is no longer needed.
But, perhaps the wind is starting to shift away from authoritarian leaders. People that continue to believe in the rule of law and democratic governance need to redouble their efforts in Europe as well as in the U.S.
1
As a EU citizen, I have the following to say: If Mr. Orban does not like the democratic principles of the European Union, he should consider leaving. Hungary has greatly benefited financially from the EU. They want to have their cake and eat it. The same could be said of Poland, btw. These two countries' anti-semitism and anti-democratic sentiments are appalling.
3
Trump has shunned Iran and Cuba, two nations run by brutal despots. Obama loved Castro and the Grand Ayatollah. That means Obama loves dictators, right?
7
In sum leave Obama out of this as he has no connection or relevance to Hungary or Trump. Such as appears herein is to seek readers, meaning my subscription is suspect!
"If you're friends with P.,
Well, then you're friends with me.
If you're down with P.,
Well, then you're down with me.
Friends of P." - Friends of P by the Rentals
Explains it all :-)
I wonder about looking at Hungary in isolation. When considered along with Italy and Austria, we can begin to see a phenomenon worth consideration and not dismissal. Perhaps these countries could be compared to our Pennsylvania, Michigan and Ohio...nothing good comes from ignoring and shunning people. We need to show them respect and listen to them. Obama saw them as deplorables and dismissed them. Countries should not be allowed to stew in their rage. They need to be engaged and understood. Hungary is one of the great cultural centers of the European world; its music and literature stand out for their range and depth. This culture deserves cultivation and understanding and protection. Hungary's president is not a monster for wanting to protect its cultural identity.
7
Oh, oh, oh. For those who think Orbán is rightfully defending it's borders from women in burkas, may I remind you, Hungary was asked to take in only around 2000 people, a drop in the bucket. The immigration issue in Hungary has been completely fabricated by Orbán and Fidesz to rile people up, and it worked. The more unpleasant truth is not too many people want to immigrate to our country whose healthcare and educational systems are in shambles, partly because Hungary lacks doctors, nurses and science teachers, but also because Orbán is more interested in promoting soccer and building stadiums. Perhaps a few Syrian doctors and nurses could have helped? Maybe some Syrian soccer players too, since Hungary didn't do so hot in the World Cup. (Stop trying to recall how the Hungarian team did -they didn't even make it into the Cup. So much for Viktor's effectiveness.) In the meantime Hungary's best and brightest are heading out of the country to those pesky liberal democracies to the west with their better economies and more opportunities. Sorry for the sarcasm. The truth is I am deeply saddened about what has happened to Hungary. The country had a chance and blew it. The future here is not bright.
8
@Ilona The Syrians who invaded Germany are not doctors, lawyers, or professionals. Most are illiterate in Arabic, and certainly unable to speak Hungarian. Ever try to speak Hungarian? No professional who came in would ever become certified in his profession in Hungarian, as the age of language learning has passed. So this is ridiculous.
Hungary spent 200 years under the Muslim boot of Ottoman Turk rulers. Why should they choose to bring in more Muslims? They should not.
9
Somehow, Trump has managed to create the aura of a straight shooter. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Suppose he just came out and said, "I like autocrats. I like their power. I think a leader should be able to rule without being held back." That would have been honest and truthful. But he would never say that, because he is a politician, who like all politicians, wants to look good. So he plays his cards close to the vest. He's not unvarnished, but rather, acting as calculating as can be.
His followers say all the time he is someone who tells it like it is, straight and unfiltered, and he doesn't care about what people think. Folks, that's an aura, that's pretend. He admires strong leaders greatly. But he would never say anything so open and honest because he would be afraid to.
1
When we hear of authoritarian right wing notions, when we hear Donald Trump equivocate about very fine Nazis mowing over a woman with a car, or lending a hand to harsh dictators while alienating NATO, we are hearing right wing fringe white nationalist Steve Bannon.
Mr.Trump remains easily influenced by strongmen advisers far smarter than him, and influenced by autocrats that Putin would admire. To Trump, our neighbor Canada's steel is a national security threat.
Every pro-Putin outcome herein from Mr. Trump is derived from the private 2 hour meeting he had with the Russian dictator. Of which even his U.S. Director of National Intelligence knows nothing.
3
Yea and Obama said nothing during the Egyptian coup and decided that Iran was America’s best friend. Find a new angle.
10
I hate to break it to you, but Orban's views are ascendant. He is a nationalist and cares more for his own citizens than foreign nationals. The open border globalists policies and philosophy of Merkel and Obama is descendent. They abused their policy of open borders, and the citizen took note and since by and large have voted, democratically, for anti-globalist governments and one referendum (Brexit).
12
birds of a feather
The title on the 'inside' article is clear. On the front page, not so much. Watch those antecedents! From the front page headline, it reads as if Obama has the friend in Trump...am I the only one to pause over this grammar?
bird of feather flock together
1
Netanyahu recently feted Orban in Israel. Trump. Netanyahu, Orban and Putin: fellow peas in the same authoritarian pod.
2
Hungary is a country where Orthodox Jews can freely walk around without being cat-called or spit on. If that's right wing, I will take it.
13
Erdogan used to be a buddy of the liar-in-chief too.
Can any tell what happened? Over a pastor to please his base.
If you believe there are "some very good people on both sides" you can support anyone who fits your agenda. That's what fascists and the power hungry do.
1
What is it about the chaos and the exorbitant financial and societal costs of illegal immigrants swarming across sovereign borders that’s so appealing to Leftists? Is it the prospect of eventually increasing their voter base? Can’t quite make it out...
4
Former CIA director Brennan is an "enemy," while Mr. Orban is a "friend." This is the perverse, topsy-turvy moral world of Trumpism.
2
The change must start here in November, the world can follow our lead...
There has not been one acquaintance that Trump is "friendly" with who hasn't illegal history. Each one is as morally bankrupt as he. Really, why should any of us be surprised when he brings in more creepy, smarmy, crooks into his crowd. When he uses gutter language in describing others. I am so glad my daughter is an adult now, and sees these people for who they are. I wouldn't want her to grow up thinking this group is legitimate, ethical, acceptable in this world. They truly are the despicable mob here.
1
Reminds me of that old song line, "looking for love in all the wrong places...."
Shunned by Obama. Boy that must have really hurt.
Obama foreign policy was one continuous disaster. It ended up with an attack on the US by Russia (NYT's words) to which Obama responded: "Cut it out!".
5
If Trumps supports this and Obama didn't, we know it is a bad idea and not worthy of our support currently.
1
If the Hungarian people continue to stand by Orban, and if Obama’s plans to change their minds have been blunted, then we as a global, compassionate community of progressives should do everything in our power to help change the heart of Hungary by changing its demographic composition.
In short, we should be working with aid groups and non-profits to settle as many refugees as possible in Hungary. We should support the EU and Merkel’s Germany in spreading their refugees and migrants into Hungary. And finally, once we take back the White House and legislature, we need to make sure Obama’s policies are brought back and we need to make sure Orban goes back on the “shun” list.
Mass immigration is one of the few surefire ways to counter deplorable nativism and white privilege. As progressives, we need to own this. As people who understand that everyone is Stronger Together, and diversity is society’s highest ideal (next to fighting white supremacy), we need to transform the population of Hungary through mass migration!
2
This makes me all the more certain that Trump & Co. will be using 'active measures' regarding voter suppression. His admiration for autocrats will lead him to initiate 'the sincerest form of flattery'.
1
More proof Trump has absolutely no respect for the institutions od a Democratic Society. More proof he and the 30% of American who march in unison to the Trump beat are the true danger to the United States, it's Constitution and our Democratic form of Government. We do have a dangerous fifth column in the US, it is Trumpism. It is the real malignant cancer that need to be excised for the nation to thrive.
1
Friend of Trump means the our arbiter of propaganda and cognitive bias, D Trump, is cuddling with another autocrat dictator to understand how he can do the same in the US. That might be construed as a threat to our way of life. I believe now , however, that Trump is too weak and constrained by our system to ever accomplish a dictatorial autocracy here in the US. We must not get sloppy. Trump must be removed from office to enable a liberal governance in our Nation. The GOP must be sidelined to a point of moderation as soon as possible.
Is Trump asking people people like Putin, Orban, etc as to how they rig their elections?
2
Trump's kind of despot!
1
I'm not surprised. Steve Bannon has been busy nurturing relationships with the far right forces for quite a while and while he Trump might not be brothers-in-arms anymore, none of them has changed direction after the split. The US goal for Europe is clear: Destabilize democracy in general and EU in particular.
Even the American ambassador in Germany, Richard Grenell, has openly said he wants to empower the far right movements in Europe. Why Germany allow him to stay is a good question that I have never seen answered.
8
@Stefan
F.Y.I. Steve Bannon and Richard Grenell aren't the only ones with sights on destabilizing Europe and the U.S. ... You can also count Vladimir Putin in on that as well.
Noch was.
Germany is doing a good enough job on its own with fostering right-wing movements (AfD, NPD, Identitäre, Reichsbürger).
Nicht wahr?
@N. Smith
Right-wing movements have always existed, but they have grown fast all over Europe over the last 6-8 years. I don't think one can rightfully say that Germany has "fostered" them since the far-right grew quicker outside Germany, like in France, Italy, Spain and even Scandinavia.
I guess that the growth in the US is just as big as in Europe but less noticeable since the Republicans have always been quite far to the right and the US "center" is more to the right than an average European "center".
But if you by "fostering" mean "allowed them to grow," then I'd agree with you. Very little has been done to slow them down. Guess that is the weakness of a Democracy - also the elements that try to destroy it has to be accepted.
No surprises here. Another strongman who controls the media...like Putin, Duterte and the like. Of course Trump loves them. Is this what America has become?
4
With the populist movements growing in Eastern Europe is a renewal of the antisemitism that drove my great grandparents out of Poland and Latvia. None of this is good for the EU. All of it is good for Putin's Russia. Trump's unconscionable complicity is helping to support these developments, and weaken US and EU influence in the region.
8
Gosh...how awful that the leader of a sovereign nation is a nationalist. Next we will learn that the Pope is religious.
13
Any friend of Putin's is a friend of trump's
5
Take the worst leaders of Europe - Orban, Kaczyński or any right-wing populist - and you can count on Trump to back them. The US leader is making things worse on the other side of the Atlantic. And we in the Old world who know our history know where these forces can lead us (and predates the Third Reich, the nationalistic parties and ideas plagued the continent for two centuries).
9
@Erik That's right, and unfortunately even one of the most just and fair nations on earth, Sweden, seems to be in danger of a strong far right show in the September elections.
4
@Erik 40 years of Communism in the Eastern Bloc was quite a thrill?
3
Birds of a feather...
5
Who is behind these changes? Trump doesn't have the intellect to understand the nuances of European diplomacy. Again, he is being someone's useful idiot.
10
@Denise Cook All the changes and names should come from the list Putin gives to Trump at their last confidential meeting!
1
Refugees would never settle in Hungary since the Hungarian language is very difficult to learn and to speak. Hungarian has no connection to Romanic or Slavic languages. Hungarian is only similar to the Basque and the Finnish language. So you know: very difficult languages indeed.
6
@Peter And how many Turks who have lived in Germany for decades speak fluent German?
@skeptic
To learn German is easier than to learn Hungarian. Please ask experts.
European countries, especially small ones, generally do not have a strong history or tradition of taking in endless amounts of immigrants as we do here in the US and Canada. They also do not have the endless landscape and ever growing cities. Some nations within Europe want to limit immigration and control their borders as they have the sovereign right to do. Perhaps the people of Hungary desire or choose to remain Hungarian?
Destroying or diluting the language culture and traditions, mores and ethics of a country in order to assimilate to another's is questionable.
26
History shows that despots, dictators and those of that ilk tend to aggregate...
10
Apparently the people of Hungary think that Orban has their best interest because they keep re-electing him. Democratically may I add. Unlike the Democratic party here in the US whereas immigrants, especially illegals, have precedent over US citizen's best interests.
22
The irony of all this much trumpeted Hungary Defendant of Western Values lies withing its troubled history and its very birth. As we read in some comments, Hungarians consider themselves victims of "occupation", "subjugation", "punishment" etc. By the Mongols, by the Turks, Austrians, Romanians, Europe and EU, seemingly everybody took turns to hurt them...Poor Hungarians! This syndrome of victimization could not be more deceptive in its intent, presumptuous, and false in its historical veracity. Why?
Just consider that when the Magyars stormed into the Carpathian basin, they found a continent ripe for plucking...
Beginning in 895 AD the Magyars executed 55 major, annual campaigns throughout Europe; they pillaged and raped the lands of Christians. "A sagittis Hungarorum libera Nos Domine" was the cry of the day (Save us Lord from the Hungarian arrows). Keep in mind that the Magyars were Asian horsemen and pagans ...!
And now Hungary is lecturing Europe! Isn't that Ironic?!
4
@Nicholas why are you spreading your depth of knowledge about Hungarians? What do you have against them?
2
“The Hapsburg Group”
What was it that the Hapsburgs had to do with the past few centuries again?
"But" in the headline should be changed to "and therefore."
1
Obama should know that you don't make friends, influence folks or change their minds by shunning them. It was a shortsighted move.
10
Orban was democratically elected as the overwhelming choice of the Hungarian people. He is a nationalist and not a globalist. He places Hungarians with higher priority than foreign nationals. That makes sense since as PM of Hungary, he is the leader of Hungarians and not of foreign nationals. He has good company with the leaders of Poland, The Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, and even Italy.
Obama gave the cold shoulder only because he was a globalist and Orban not. Orban is hardly a dictator as the MSM insinuates. The MSM maligns leaders that it does not agree with, but not because there is otherwise rationale to do so. Orban should wear it as a badge of honor.
19
Orban may have been democratically elected, but he has made many moves to concentrate power in himself. He has weakened the courts, hes constantly attacks the press, and he wants to shut down universities he disagrees with. He rules through fear of the dreaded immigrant.
12
I have worked on 5 continents and been to 6 of them. Also, as a consultant I have worked in 33 of our Great States. One thing that East and West Coast Elite liberals and some bias journalist do not understand is that the world and a lot of Americans do not buy their form of liberal democracy. We tried regime change and that did not work. Our own nation is split because some try to force their version of democracy on their fellow Americans. When our Founding Fathers scrapped the Articles of Confederation for our Constitution there was a great debate and concern that the Federal Gov't would usurp more & more power from the States. Therefore they agreed on the concept of States Rights. We need to learn to accept other nations and states and learn to live with their differences. After all the people of CA do not want the people of TX telling them how to apply their laws or vice versa.
16
@Rod Appeasement. Because that worked so well in the 1930s.
7
There is no strongman or would be dictator that Trump doesn't support. That's because he feels a kinship to these people. Sad...
6
I'm confused. Are we Trump or are we the United States of America?
5
@Lynn Please
No confusion for me. We are the USA. This temporary Trumpster disease will be turned out...sooner, I hope, than later.
Trumpster and his band of loose cannons (pun intended), amateur & professional criminals, and hangers-on dominate & control the executive branch now. Elected, I add, by a mere 77,000 votes strategically located in four states, so Trumpster won in the Electoral College but not in the popular vote. I add that neither major political party nominated a candidate that earned or was worthy of the office of POTUS. By our inactivity in the nomination process we lost it ourselves.
Supported by the feckless politicians in Congress and elsewhere, Trumpster and his hench-people wreck havoc on our republic's economy; democratic traditions; Federal, state, and local govts; and our traditions of justice under (not over) the law and free exchange of ideas with "truth and justice for all." Factual accuracy & objective reporting are foreign to Trumpster organization that operates more and more as a "Mafia family" and not as office holders with a fiduciary responsibility to USA citizens.
Be steadfast in your self-discipline and in your ideals of our great Republic and, as I have from time to time, re-read the founding documents of our nation. It gives me confidence in our culture and history, reminds me that no one or any combination is above the law, and sooner or later all will be held accountable for their misbehaviors.
1
@Lynn @Lynn Please
No confusion for me. We are the USA. This temporary Trumpster disease will be turned out...sooner, I hope, than later.
Trumpster and his band of loose cannons (pun intended), amateur & professional criminals, and hangers-on dominate & control the executive branch now. Elected, I add, by a mere 77,000 votes strategically located in four states, so Trumpster won in the Electoral College but not in the popular vote. I add that neither major political party nominated a candidate that earned or was worthy of the office of POTUS. By our inactivity in the nomination process we lost it ourselves.
Supported by the feckless politicians in Congress and elsewhere, Trumpster and his hench-people wreck havoc on our republic's economy; democratic traditions; Federal, state, and local govts; and our traditions of justice under (not over) the law and free exchange of ideas with "truth and justice for all." Factual accuracy & objective reporting are foreign to Trumpster organization that operates more and more as a "Mafia family" and not as office holders with a fiduciary responsibility to USA citizens.
Be steadfast in your self-discipline and in your ideals of our great Republic and, as I have from time to time, re-read the founding documents of our nation. It gives me confidence in our culture and history, reminds me that no one or any combination is above the law, and sooner or later all will be held accountable for their misbehaviors.
1
@aeg
Thanks, very nice of you to respond
None of the autocrats Trump favors ascribe to the important aspects of democracy. It's an outrage he is warm with demagogue strongmen--and prefers them as allies.
Now this:
It was announced today the fact that Autocrat Trump is revoking the security clearance of ex- CIA Director John Brennan.
His press secretary just listed several critics of this president who will have theirs revoked as well if they continue to offer criticism of Autocrat Trump. None are Republicans.
Every single name mentioned today by Huckabee Sanders has criticized this administration. This action represents a threat to open dialogue, freedom of speech in America, and democracy.
Shut up and dribble?
9
fascism is born out of the desperation of a nation, where all options are removed and the only hope is that a 'strong man' will restore 'normality'
faced with looming economic adversity, it is inherent in human nature to surrender 'self' when offered some kind of prosperity, a return to 'what used to be'
The American people fell for it; nations in Europe are falling for it again, just as they did in the 1930s.
One can superimpose the speeches of then onto now, and not recognise any major differences in the posturing orator or the hysterical audiences who again believe the words we thought long gone from political rhetoric.
The fascist orator is himself in denial, certain that it's a political problem that can be fixed by imposition of political solutions, however crude and violent.
The world is in fact facing an energy crisis, so severe as to render the petty posturings of aspiring dictators irrelevant.
Problem is, forcing acceptance of that reality is going to be painful in the extreme, as denial mounts on denial, and such denials are forced on populations hit by shortages of the very stuff that keeps them alive
This maybe explains it in more detail
https://medium.com/@End_of_More/from-oilslick-to-tyranny-b2da78c7a196
6
That six-year drought was a clear mistake. The leading power of the world must talk to its allies, whether they play along or not.
Not talking was a by-product of not paying attention. The Obama administration simply did not pay attention and did not want to change anything in Hungary. They left it to the Germans, the dominant power in Central and Eastern Europe. And their focus was on German investment and Mr. Orbán never failed to serve that interest.
That $700,000 grant is simply ridiculous. Why? Because Mr. Orbán has spent hundred times more from taxpayer money to buy or suppress Hungarian press.
Public opinion in Hungary is that the Embassy (ie. the Obama administration) tried to push some liberal agenda by talking (and paying) to the discredited and thoroughly rotten liberal old guard in Hungary.
The truth is that no one on the Capitol Hill really pays attention. Hungary is simply to small for that. It is a flawed democracy but well within civilized boundaries. Its economy is running on EU money and German maquiladoras which effectively control its government.
And they will keep controlling it so the Trump administration's effort to use Hungary as a pawn in their anti-EU game will be short-lived. They will realize that Mr. Orbán is a strong guy at home, but his leash is very short in the international circuit. Symbolic meetings may continue but Mr. Orbán knows who the Don is. And for him it's not Donald Trump.
4
Orban is a great leader who loves Hungary and sees its future aligned with a resurgent Russia. The U.S. should follow his lead.
7
@Rolf ??? Are you suggesting the US should follow the example of Orban and align itself with a resurgent Russia?
Trump has made it patently clear that human rights, freedom, democratic ideals are off the table in any negotiation. He's in it for the money and the attention: hopeful inductee into the world of strongmen. It's all about the dollars and the visuals.
5
As a Hungarian living in Canada, I am appalled by the leadership of Orban. This is not what we hoped would develop in Hungary. Hungary was a feudal society until World War II. The communists came to power and elevated the standard of living of the mostly poor population by providing a better standard of living, education and healthcare. Unfortunately, Hungary sided with Germany and was defeated and was overrun by the Russian invading army. It was forced to pay reparations to the Russians who became an occupying force for over 40 years. The Hungarian Revolution of 1956 attempted to rid itself of the Russian occupying force. America promised that it would come to Hungary's aid. It never did. Over 200, 000 Hungarians left the country before the border was sealed in January 1957. After the fall of communism Hungary wobbled politically and conditions were ripe for the current system to take hold. Hungary's ties with Russia were reforged by its dependency on gas once coal fuel was abandoned. Orban is Putinizing Hungary by controlling the media, financial institutions and politicizing the judiciary. Hungarians are facing low wages and are not having children. The population hovers around the 8 million mark and is shrinking every day as the aging population dies out. Hungary is well on its way to becoming a fascist state again.
19
As the leader of a sovereign nation, PM Orban has an absolute right to forge alliances with whoever he pleases. But the EU should act accordingly, following the very Trump administration golden rule: you don't give money to someone who's working against you. In this particular case, 10 billion euros Hungary is getting annually straight from the European taxpayer's pocket. Same goes for Poland (25 billlion euros)
9
I'm European. And for the first time ever I consider current POTUS to be an enemy of my country's alliance. Current U.S. administration is closer to far-right autocrats and fascists wannabes than democracies and (former?) allies.
109
This is just another measure of the industriousness of Putin and his former Soviet comrades.
They surreptitiously fund and support right wing nationalists that seek to undermine the post Cold War world order.
They attacked the very core of our Democracy with both the covert and full-throated support of Donald Trump and his campaign and family.
For 70 years the United States fought against the spread of autocratic rule, be it false Communism or despots. In the Age of Trump, the former Soviets are winning the New Cold War.
Change it on 11/6/18!
17
I guess as citizens of the United States, we will have to decide whether we want to become Hungary, Turkey, the Czech Republic, China or Pakistan. If we don’t get rid of trump, we will end up without a free press,free speech and will only have the right bear arms, which is not something I would choose ala carte from the Constitution. Be strong. Perhaps you made a mistake in trump’s character. Perhaps you have difficulty admitting you’re wrong. Once you change your mind, everything will correct itself. My father voted for Nixon, and then never voted Republican again.
18
Of course Trump admires anti-democratic strongman leaders like Orban, Putin, Kim Jong-un, et al. He envies them, they are his heroes, he wants to be one of them, to do away with all laws that constrain the power of wealth without which democracy cannot survive, to be free to further enrich himself, and have whatever else he wishes simply by tweeting.
Indeed, it's basically the same power billionaires like the Koch brothers, Sheldon Adelson, the Mercers, et al., desire, and ever since Reagan have been working through the Republican party to accomplish. Namely, using their extreme wealth to buy politicians who will fill judgeships and heads of agencies with cronies who will do their bidding, lower their taxes, gut whatever laws that stand in their way of using their extreme wealth to do whatever they want. In other words, overthrowing our democracy!
12
Obama also shunned roughly 45% of the population of the United States, as did his globalist-collectivist fellow traveler Clinton.
That is why Trump was elected.
So a different approach to foreign policy isn't really unexpected, is it ?
When you don't talk with someone - at all - there is no negotiation.....
18
When I see comments like this I have scratch my head. Obama shunned 45% by getting us out of near financial collapse? protecting the environment by promoting renewable energy? reinforcing our alliances across the world? passing affordable healthcare for the most vulnerable Americans? Taking a thoughtful, measured approach to policies and administering the government?
Other than blatant racism, I don’t understand the disconnect.
14
@Objectivist,
Difficult to discuss, argue or talk to someone if they have only beliefs and no common facts, basic ideas, theories or historical context.
9
@Objectivist Preconditions?
Orban is a con man only interested in power for himself. This was verified by talking with Hungarians my last trip there in May.
Of course Trump likes him.
74
@W Saint Since he has been re-elected 3 times, and with increasing majorities, you are probably talking to the wrong Hungarians to understand Orban.
1
Since you brought up Obama, lets revisit how he had no trouble with Assad, the Brotherhood, Iran, Cuba, Burma,and Ethiopia. As Mike Gonzalez wrote,"“For the first year I put it down to ABB, Anything But Bush—Bush did it, so it was bad,”. “But seven years on that doesn’t explain it anymore. He’s the president who’s shown the least interest in democracy and human rights since Richard Nixon. It’s sad. For someone who constantly extols his past as a community organizer, this is pretty unexplainable.”
11
@Harif2 Had so little trouble with them that he sanctioned all of them?
3
@Harif2 I believe you are taking about the current president, correct? Yes, Obama reached out to some authoritarian countries, but he certainly was not in bed with Putin and Kim like Trump is.
3
Obama was accused of being anti-semitic by Traitor Trump's mob in Mar a Lago, Florida.
The real anti-semite is Orban, but you won't hear a peep out of the mob.
11
Vestigiae terrent. Hungarians, and the public in general, have very short memories. Admiral Horthy was the dictator in the late 1930's who drove Hungary into the arms of Hitler with the help of the openly fascist Arrow Cross Party. In 1944, when the outcome of the war was in no doubt, they helped the Gestapo deport 400.000 Hungarian Jews to extermination camps, destroying all of Hungary's Jewry. Now they are once again ready to embrace autocracy and racism in order to preserve racial purity. Orban's platform is pure xenophobia. The Hungarians, the Poles and the other Visegrad countries must be so weak as societies that they cannot withstand 30.000 new faces in a sea of millions.
10
@Hames Hmm.. exquisite and most-important history knowledge you shared there.
But, the by perpetual American and "allies" waged wars and economic "Kultur-wars" on all other cultures, systems, tribes and ways of thinking and of being has created more than a mere sea of 30.000 poor migrant-aces, but an growing ocean-floods of human tragedies getting swapped, and bombed by the U.S.A., Russia and their Islamic allies and foes alike toward imploding Europe:
Fabricating/bombing-by migration-crisis to abuse the self-made "crisis" to turn America, Europe etc. hyper-religious and Nazi, is really an old stratagem!
That, is the original right-wing/Nazi- "Kultur-war"-strategy of deadly organized violence-based Divide & Conquer-military & Intelligence-tactics right now being waged against Liberal Europe, against "Liberals" and against Multicultural and more "Social" Secular Democracies.
Old game. Learn to play it, folks!
Such boringly predictable wealthy sociopaths always attempt to grab more power on Earth in their ever-colluded greed-driven arrogant ignorance.
Forgive them:Such never-learning bores our richest religious fools just are.
Best,
A.E.
Projectheureka LLC
Hungary is definitely ok.
I am glad to see us having better relations with this amazing country.
I hope we continue to strengthen this bond
17
Amazing country? Have been there? Not as a sightseeing tourist. How many times? Trust me, it is not an amazing country (although contributed significantly to universal science and culture).
The topic appears to be Hungary, but in reality it is just another circumspect way of lashing out at Trump.
18
@waldoCould be. Could be. And, so what?
4
@waldo It's not really a 'lashing out' as it is a statement that Trump heralds every and any authoritarian, right-wing leader in the world such as Putin, Duterte, Netanyahu, Erdogan (initially), etc. It's a fact!
7
@waldo How so? His fans love his strongman act, they'll be lapping this up.
Your headline is a fine example of undemocratic liberalism condemning illiberal democracy
Kindly note:
"Approval rating of Hungary's ruling Fidesz party at 7-year high
February 9, 2018, 4:34 pm english version Hungarian version
nyomtatás
After the autumn, the winter of 2017 also saw the approval rating of Hungary’s ruling Fidesz party rise further. The average of the three pollsters watched closely by Portfolio, the popularity of Viktor Orbán’s party is close to 40% among eligible voters.
As for the surveys conducted in January, the findings by Tárki have shown the most significant changes, as the researchers identified most of the previously uncertain voters as those that supporting the Fidesz party, hence the approval rating of the governing party came in at 46%. The average of the three main pollsters’ approval ratings shows that the opposition Socialist Party (MSZP) has lost additional voters and now it stands at 7% among eligible voters. The approval rating of far-right nationalist Jobbik party has risen way within the margin of error, and according to the surveys of the last six months, it has been hovering in a range between 10% and 12%. "
Your disdain for Hungary is an elitist disdain for democracy
http://www.portfolio.hu/en/economy/approval-rating-of-hungarys-ruling-fi...
18
Barack Obama made mistakes, but at least he recognized an autocrat when he saw one, without envy, and without mistaking bullying for leadership or dictatorship for strength.
Obama was president of a constitutional, democratic republic. Trump is just masquerading as one, hoping that no one will notice the absence of a real president.
37
A magyar név megint szép lesz, méltó régi hirnevéhez, wrote the great poet in 1848. (the name hungarian will again be beautiful, worthy of its old reputation)..
But only if they, we, get rid of Orban and his cronies.
I believe this will happen, Trump or no Trump.
But a new program is needed, not the ones whose failure caused all this in the first place. Can we reinvent social democracy for the 21st Century? Yes, we can._
9
The US could never pay sustained attention to the small countries of East-Central Europe. Hungary usually gets second-rate US Ambassadors that are too clumsy or ignorant to make a positive difference.
Hungarian history is full of tragedies and losses caused by its leaders betting on the wrong alliances. By taking Trump's side, Orban looks relevant and connected for now, but Hungary never benefits from its imagined "friendships" with great powers.
21
Mr. Orban was democratically elected by a large margin.
It is in the US interested foreign policy interest to work with those who are legitimately elected, with the added plus in the case of Hungary, of being no friend of Russia.
18
@Gerhard
In an election tainted with intimidation and lies.
5
If there is an authoritarian dictator in the world, you can bet good money, Mr. Trump will warm to him quickly. Mr. Trump's preferences for strongman dictators is now well documented and is just one of many reasons why Mr. Trump is so dangerous to our democracy and democracies around the world. Mr. Trump projects in those he values; the very values he holds.
The bigger question is; do Republicans also prefer strongman dictators, or are they still Americans who value the democratic processes as defined in our Constitution? The mid-term elections are coming and the Republicans need to be held accountable to answering that very question.
32
as a rule this seems to be true of President Trump, but lately he seems to be a having a spat with Turkey's Erdogon, pushing him into the arms of Russia and perhaps Iran or Syria as well.
So the United States is funding the creation of "independent media" in Hungary? Why don't we concentrate on the creation of an independent media here in the United States, where the media is essentially a cartel run by a few mega-corporations and overwhelmingly has a left-wing bias on questions like immigration. Mainstream media these days appears far more like the media arm of the institutional Democratic Party than any kind of "independent" entity ... that type of collusion warrants backlash and criticism, even from deluded figures like Trump.
As for Orban, he may have authoritarian tendencies and an over-fondness for Russia, but he is widely popular in Hungary for preventing disastrous mass immigration from outside the EU. Hungarian voters rewarded his Fidesz party with a supermajority in this year's election. Do elections still "have consequences" as Nancy Pelosi said, or is that only the case when people vote the way the liberal elite desires?
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@Mike Thompson
I fully agree with you, but would like to make one correction: Orban wasn't fighting 'mass immigration' but 'mass migration'. Huge difference; there are thousands upon thousands of foreigners admitted to settle, live and invest in Hungary (and Austria and Canada, etc.) and are all welcome. Except that they are all vetted.
6
@Mike Thompson
The prior Presidential election was decided by the Electoral College, not the majority of the voting population.
As for a left-wing biased press...we’ll you always can watch or listen to Fox News, no bias there huh !?
2
@Mike Thompson We can only hope that, in the United States, constitutional protections of the First Amendment are far more secure than they are in these authoritarian cultures. Every night when I watch Stephen Colbert, I exult in our ability to skewer the bigoted, fascistic pretensions of the current administration.
Backlash and criticism are brilliant and necessary. Do you ever watch Fox News? I believe they actually have a larger audience than CNN or MSNBC. I assume that you are including Fox News in your cartels.
Or is it that you have also bought the argument that immigrants are the source of all evil rather than a bigots attempt to divert attention from the anti-humanistic tendencies of this administration and their supporters.
As an aside, I would like to remind that the DOW is above 25000 and unemployment below 4%, created primarily by a black man, and with 20 million illegal aliens in the country. I find it hard to argue that immigrants, illegal or not, are harming the economy. In recent memory, the only time the economy has come close to complete failure was during a Republican administration that apparently was the result of financial manipulation by american caucasians.
The right blames MS13 for violence in this country. They really should blame american caucasian males.
5
The largest democracy in the world celebrates its independence today but there is not even a mention of it in NYT. What a reporting of events and lapses not to inform the people in US while worry about reporting on aa tiny country of Hungry.
6
Trump considers himself "a strong leader," so has an affinity for dictators. Like so many other ways in which Trump identifies himself, Trump is delusional. A strong democratic leader must rally disparate groups around a common cause to effect legislative action. To date, Trump's only accomplishment is to get Republicans to vote for a massive tax cut for the wealthy, which they are willing to do under any and all circumstances. Lincoln, T. Roosevelt, F. Roosevelt and Reagan were strong leaders because they could rally the nation around their policies, even if they were initially unpopular. Trump isn't strong, merely loud.
15
@Chris Bowling
There is a difference between an authoritarian leader and a dictator(or in earlier times, an absolute monarch).
Just because someone is elected again and again doesn't make him (or her) a 'dictator'. Example: Angela Merkel
5
@Chris Bowling
Yea, initially unpopular and, in retrospect, severely damaging to the middle class, who unknowingly & overwhelmingly approved of their own demise.
3
You suggest that if only people in Hungary had more news from George Soros, the wacky left and Omarosa, then the white Christians of Hungary would love migrants of every kind and welcome Muslim women in Burqas with open
Arms. I was just in Budapest for a lovely vacation (it's a terrific town) and from the cab driver who picked us up from the train station to the bartenderd and literally everyone elseI talked to - not to mention the 75% of citizens who voted for him - they love Viktor Orban, and they don't want to turn into London or Amsterdam with their teeming, out-of-control populations of migrants.
31
@whydetroit8 Of course they love their Victor. He's made empty utopian promises to them, like Donnie has.
4
To N. Smith: Maybe so but they don’t have the right to form their own tribunal or to make their own laws which would put them beyond the reach of any President even Trump. BTW he has not given them carte blanche, but has given them incentives to relocate their factories here. Would TPP help American workers? Doubtless the various corporations would be taking Trump before their tribunal because his concern for American workers adversely affects their profits.
3
In discussing Hungary's response to concerns about migrants, we have to remember that Putin's involvement in Syria helped to create the waves of migrants escaping from that area. There is a larger chess game at play, and it is a mistake to look at only one person or place in isolation (Hungary, Ukraine, Crimea etc.)
7
@David
Wrong. Again. Putin had nothing to do with the Syrian refugee crisis: the US and the Saudis unleashed it by turning a simple civil unrest into a civil war, by aiding and abetting those who wanted to overthrow a legitimate government.
Assad's Syria was light years ahead of the US' BFF's in the Middle East, those who still cultivate cutting hands off of thieves.
4
@waldo
Waldo, Assad would have fled to Switzerland long ago and the war there would be long over had Russia not stepped up support to his murderous minority regime when it was on the verge of collapse. Do you recall Assad's visits to Moscow?
You seem to forget that this "legitimate" government went full-out open fire on people demanding more political and social freedom. Conveniently so, otherwise you wouldn't make the argument that you did.
Benjamin Netanyahu is said to have worked behind the scenes since 2017 to lobby on Viktor Orban’s behalf in the Trump administration for Hungary. Netanyahu was in Budapest last month and received the assurance from Orban, that “all Jews can feel safe” in Hugary. Netanyahu finds in Europe’s “Donald Trump” an ally to go after the Central European University in Budapest, funded by George Soros. Both men had a frosty relationship with the Obama administration.
Since Trump took office, Netanyahu is pulling the strings in the White House, thanks to Jared Kushner. This allows him to bring Orban in from the cold. It’s unclear whether Netanyahu got paid by Oraban for this lobbying job. Nevertheless Hungary is now on Trump’s radar.
9
@J. von Hettlingen
Nice fantasy. But the truth is that Orban wasn't 'out in the cold'. Americans seem to think of themselves as something special. They are not.
3
And it's not just about the press in Hungary anymore. Yes, Orbán's government is populist, and that means spreading misinformation to stay in power, while maintaining a democratic framework, so that the EU can't effectively stand up against him. But this democratic facade does not mean that what he's doing is not harmful to our society (that is so short on democratic traditions anyway).
Here's a good example of what comes after shutting down or acquiring almost every independent/opposition media outlet of the country: Orbán's government is currently working on abolishing academic freedom, by 'offering' to delegate half of the management board of the Hungarian Academy of Sciences. If they refuse to accept, half of the research funding will be distributed through a new ministry - basically giving the money to whoever the government wants. And they know exactly what research they want and don't want - this week's breaking news was that the goverment does not allow hungarian universities to run any gender studies majors any more.
It's not just about misinformation, it's dumbing down the people to gain control over them. That's the policy that Trump's cabinet seems to support.
14
If Trump and Orban decide to come together there may be many common reasons but not immigration which comes handy to both trying to consolidate power by inciting people on emotive grounds. For, whatever Trump says immigration, as faced by Europe, has never been a problem in the US. So is the case with Hungary, that has certainly been the gateway for the immigrants to reach other parts of Europe but not a shelter for them. The anti-Europe stance of both the leaders, Trump and Viktor Orban is simply a tactical move to create mass hysteria and use it as the rallying point to gather support from the far right forces. .
4
@Prof. Jai Prakash Sharma
'immigration, as faced by Europe, has never been a problem in the US'
Oh really? ok, go ask Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, you know, actual people actually affected by a never ending river of people coming right into their backyard. Go ask the professor. See if they concur with your academic knowledge.
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@Shark
Do some reading, boy:
Is the Border in Crisis? ‘We’re Doing Fine, Quite Frankly,’ a Border City Mayor Says
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/23/us/border-trump-immigration.html
1
Please do some more research and use the language more efficiently. Hungary is not; "anti -immigrant". I myself became a citizen of this great country. Hungary won't let people come into the country without control. The first duty of any government is to protect its own people.
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@Mortarman, Touche
8
@Mortarman
Why did Hungary imprison refugees who were just passing through? Why were they stopped and imprisoned in places where they were fed in mass with some sandwiches thrown from above as if they were dogs?
Your were a refugee yourself -- you should be able to empathize. Look at the destroyed cities from where refugees have escaped..... dont they bring up some memories?
4
All I got from this article was that Stephen Bannon seems to be Donald Trump’s (paid-under-the-table?) ambassador to the authoritarian-leaning or de facto governments in Europe. Bannon was (is?) Trump’s intellectual conduit; everyone knows that Trump’s a lazy, non-reading apparatchik, and who has the last audience with him has the decision.
Viktor Orban never got it; that this American president is willing to legitimize his autocratic and repressive regime is disquieting, to say the least. The key here, I think, is Orban’s willingness to stifle dissent, a major component of Trump’s “enemy of the state” rants.
If Bannon is Trump’s secret ambassador-at-large, we should all be worried.
9
@Soxared, '04, '07, '13.
dont worry before you become informed, as w/ Steve Bannon.
How much of him have you read?
I very strongly suspect he's not what you think -- keep in mind Trump fired him.
For starters, he proclaims he's a populist opposing the power of Wall St.
.
1
We should not forget that the thoughtless destabilization of Libya and Syria and the consequent flooding of Europe with millions of refugees/migrants has given a strong boost to right wing European politics as well as to populism in general.
16
@Khaganadh Sommu, ty; i'ma newly minted US nationalist for the reason you post.
I'v voted for all Democratic candidates from Humphrey to Hillary, and i'l continue voting Dem for reasons like Trump, but
my political beliefs are now progressive nationalism --
the nationalism of tightly closed borders and deportation of illegal aliens;
the progressivism of strong support for SS, Medicare/caid, EBT, regulation of corps, etc
.
3
The LRB set out the worrying direction of travel of Orban's Hungary in 2014 (https://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n22/nora-berend/not-just-a-phase). That Donald Trump is cosying up to Orban is a development that should concern us all.
We've seen this movie before, we know how it ends.
4
It seemed impossible that a country that suffered so severely from the effects of Nazi hate during WWII would embrace fascism, but it happened. It seemed impossible that a country based on our Constitution would embrace a person of such base character and ideas as trump, but it happened. That such things occurred might be a wake up call or a death knell.
10
@Elizabeth, Hungary was an ally of Nazi Germany during WWII.
2
@Elizabeth
Hungary was a Nazi ally in WW2. They suffered when their war was lost.
4
@Thomas Zaslavsky I am talking about the people, not the government. Particularly the extermination of the Jews (I can never forget a visit to the synagogue in Budapest). It seems to me that if you live that in national memory, the people would refuse to repeat it. But there are also fascists in Germany now (and not just fringe). My hope is that people learn and in turn vote against hate but perhaps that isn't how it works.
Orban's people have invested heavily in the right wing media in Slovenia to support right wing populist politicians here as well. The Nova24TV website is full of stories about immigrants committing crimes, many more than about locals committing any, basic tactics to spread fear and hatred. Bannon must love it!
6
NYT Commentators: "We must protect democracy!"
*Democratically elected conservative fulfills campaign promises*
NYT Commentators: "This does not fit my definition of democracy!"
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@Arturo, study what democracy means. It is not rule by the majority nor is it rule by the party that gains the levers of power to eliminate opposition.
5
@Thomas Zaslavsky
democracy. From Greek: Demos Kratos , literaly 'people, rule', or ruling by the people in English grammar.
Translation - the people elect their favorite person to rule.
That you do not agree with the elected winner that is your problem. Hungary elected their president to represent them, and he did. Live with it.
@Shark
Some political philosophy, in either English or Magyar seems to be in line. Machiavelli perhaps? There's got to be a Hungarian translation somewhere.
The people "elected" him and what kind of leader he really is are two radically different things. But now Hungary has to "live" with the, and their consequences.
Say hi to Liviusz & Gabor from me.
Madeline Albright writes about Orban in her new book, Fascism - A Warning.
8
Why it's almost as if Trump was working for...I don't know...maybe Putin.
There is a traitor in the White House.
21
Yet another despicable example of embracing an extreme right-wing, anti-Semitic despot.
13
@Beth Adler I was in Budapest 3 wks ago Best place to be Jew in Europe.
7
the real divide in this country..as an outsider looking in who been living here for 13 years, I see a lot of folks too educated n too informed and then there is another set of folks we who are poorly educated and misguided and also feel marginalized and belittled by the latter..but way too informed elites that they have too adjust their attitude towards others for this divide to end..Trump is using your disdain towards his fans as a fuel to further his cause..
ultimately not only his fans but you too my liberal friend are getting conned..you are doing what Trump wants and needs you to do..he is one smart guy:)
3
@deepakI don't think so. ( -:
Let me see. Apparently Russian influence into US politics is to be condemned but US influence into (in this case 700k dollars) into tiny Hungary's politics is OK. My head is spinning.
8
Right wing propaganda has succeeded over the past decade in demonizing people like the Hungarian-born George Soros while glorifying authoritarian conmen like Orban. I have been astonished to hear intellectual, well-informed people in Europe disparaging Soros as a "financial shark" who wants to "destabilize" Europe, totally ignorant of his commitment to global liberalism, political freedom and progressive democracy.
The global hysteria about immigration (with the ugly tribalism and racism that quickly followed) played right into the hands of sordid authoritarians like Orban, who revved his propaganda machine at full throttle to spread industrial quantities of lies like manure on a field.
Pres. Obama tried to distance himself from this murky swamp, but unfortunately it seems that Trump has not yet found a swamp that he will not gladly jump into head-first. What a disgrace for America, and for Democracy.
16
Orban is another Yanukovych — he's Putin's agent. Trump's backing of Orban makes it pretty obvious that's he's Putin's man, too.
12
too bad Manafort is in no condition to jump at this great opportunity.
3
While considering whether Hungary is righteously pushing back pressure from the EU over migration from outside, please keep in mind that Hungary has not had an onslaught of non-Christian border-jumpers trying to settle in that country. The migrants who were trying to enter were intending to pass through to western Europe. This phony argument has become very popular in Hungary just as arguments that Muslims want to immigrate here to turn the US into a Muslim country is popular with Trump's base. Birds of a feather flock together.
30
Authoritarianism is one thing, but I don’t get the connection between democracy and globalism. One of Obama’s signature policies was to favor multinational trade agreements which might very well have certain advantages for multinational corporations, but which also create multinational governing structures which supersede the governance and sovereignty of individual member nations. With such structures in place what do the citizens of the member states get to vote on? Their elected representatives are no longer free to make independent economic decisions of their own but must do so only within the limits allowed by the multilateral partnerships which are not directly answerable to the people of any nation. Thus, the TPP would have empowered an international tribunal made up of multinational corporate judges who would serve on a revolving basis. If a corporation felt that a law passed by the duly elected representatives of a given member nation unfairly impacted its profits, then it could bring its case to the corporate tribunal which would have the authority to overrule the law in question. There go our environmental laws and workplace protections for the health and safety of workers which would now be subordinate to corporate interests. How is democracy served by such a system?
15
@Ed
Globalism acknowledges the reality that all nations and people share the same planet, and that multinational trade agreements are peaceful ways to find consensus between nations. We vote for representatives who will push for our interest while working out the details of these agreements. This can be a messy process, but the alternative of escalated conflict and war is pushed back.
6
@Ed Well stated. In Europe, the unelected Eurocrats in Brussels are producing many concerns such as you note. For instance, in Sweden, certain pastries use cinnamon. The EU has determined that the amount of cinnamon in these pastries violates rules it has devised, and has forbidden bakers from using the amounts that they wish to use. A small example, but typical of the rules imposed on the EU member states by the bureaucracy in Brussels. The UN is another example. We didn't elect these people, yet we allow them to make rules. Globalism is tyranny.
2
@Ed
To better understand globalization, you'd have to first understand the importance of global trade. Every economist on earth knows that you can't grow an economy without it and that tariff can work both ways, resulting in slowe expansion.
As for the effects of corporate rule, you have a prime example of what that's like after they've all been given Carte Blanche by this president --They're the ones who are 'winning'.
The rest of us are just paying for it.
2
Birds of a feather.....
7
In 2002, President Bush infamously used the phrase "axis of evil." And now President Trump actively courts authoritarian, anti-Democratic despots around the world. It's clearly an elite club he aspires to join.
15
Read more about the country before bashing it. Hungary's Orban is very popular. There are much worse people on the ground there, such as Jobbik.
6
Amazing how our president admires "tough guys" in charge of countries around the world. Clearly he sees them as role models to emulate. If he had his way, people like Amarosa would have disappeared in the last few days and likely would be held "for questioning" somewhere in an undisclosed location. At the same time, he shows little respect for leaders in democratic nations where leaders, parliaments and courts share powers; Canada, Britain, Australia etc. Perhaps the only reason Macron hasn't been chastised too much is that he at least has that all-important annual large military parade.
Thankfully he continues to be distracted by personal irritations like NFL players, Omarosa, Stormy Daniels, a new paint job for Air Force One, CNN and Jeff Sessions. Without those, we would be even more frightened than we already are.
7
Those commenting here clearly have no idea of the history of Hungary. From 1500-1700, they were under the Muslim boot of the Ottoman Turks. From 1700-1918, they were shackled to the Austrian empire. From 1945-1991, they were under the subjugation of the Communist autocrats in Moscow and their puppets in Budapest. If you go to Budapest, go to the Museum of Terror to understand recent history.
Hungarians do not want another invasion. Orbán has stopped the invasion started by Merkel and her foolish open-borders policy. This is very popular in Hungary.
Hungarians want to control their own country. They have been subjugated to the control of others for most of the last 500 years. Why should the EU be allowed to subjugate them? Why should they accept unwanted invaders?
They should not. Victor Orbán has stopped them, and has been DEMOCRATICALLY elected as head of his party for the 3rd time. He is a popular leader, not an autocrat or dictator. We should not be meddling in the affairs of our allies.
29
@GeorgePTyrebyter, this is all nonsense. Orban is a tool of Putin. No migrants want to come to Hungary, which is relatively poor and illiberal. They want to go to Germany and other prosperous places in Western Europe, obviously.
And Hungary isn't "subjugated" by the EU, they voluntarily pushed for membership and have received billions in benefits given their (relative) poverty while refusing to follow the rules.
3
@GeorgePTyrebyter
In other words, Orban is a white nationalist riding under a different flag.
And elections — as we've seen in Turkey — do not necessarily equate to democracy.
International observers complained of “intimidating and xenophobic rhetoric, media bias and opaque campaign financing” in Hungary's election.
Observers from the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe found that the hostile campaign “limited space for substantive debate and diminished voters’ ability to make an informed choice”. They also noted that public television “clearly favoured the ruling coalition”.
And I won't even get into Russian interference.
4
@GeorgePTyrebyter
Sorry but Hungary also has an ugly history of collaboration with the Nazis and have a anti-Semitic past going back decades. He is not the great liberator you are describing but an extreme right winger who is pandering to Hungarians nativist culture.
2
When did the U.S. appoint an ambassador to Budapest rather than to the country of Hungary?
6
While travelling over the last few years I met a number of Hungarians who live/or travel overseas. With a couple of exceptions I was struck by their devotion to Orban's stance.
His rhetoric has a large audience amongst Hungarians, including the ones who've lived in the US for decades. I found that very disturbing. What could be the reason for such wide support he enjoys?
Orban traffics in some of the worst nationalism that can be found in EU countries. He talks a lot of nonsense and his conspiracy theories are embarrassing; but he has customers and he's been voted by a large majority. And yet Hungary is not Russia nor is Turkey where authoritarianism is a historical fact.
So why Hungary?
I submit that Hungary has a tremendous amount of historical hubris that is unresolved. To the contrary, the historical narrative favored by most Hungarians is that Europe has committed treason after WWI and awarded Hungarian territories to its neighbors. Hence its grievances. But history has shown that in those territories lived ethnic majorities other than Hungarians. To not accept such right to self determination is troubling. Austria, the seat of Habsburgs, do not have such claims.
Therefore Orban's Hungary is a troubled nation with historical claims that are unrealistic, if not irresponsible. Orban is only but a manifestation of this hubris, just like racism and white supremacy in the US are the responsible factors for the rise of Trump.
We should not dismiss these facts!
9
@Nicholas The Treaty of Trianon, which dismembered Hungary, did not do so for the "self-determination of ethnic minorities". It did so to punish Hungary. Romania was an ally of the Western Powers in WWI, and got a huge part of Hungary. Serbia, Poland, and Czechoslovakia similarly benefited. This was simply to punish Hungary. Today, the Hungarian majority in Transylvania is not properly treated by Bucharest. Your comment shows a lack of historical understanding.
11
You obviously wanted to bring coals to Newcastle and judge Hungary by your own standards. Viktor Orban is not perfect. But, he is proud of Hungary. This is called patriotism. He has been legally elected three times. Americans have every right to be proud of their great nation, as do Hungarians.
11
@Nicholas So why join the EU then? Or why not leave it?
1
Another example that Obama had a strong moral compass and stood for something beyond the dollar and power. You have to credit the party-above-all wing of the Republican party (80%?) who were able to convince themselves that Obama was everything except a decent, intelligent, and eminently likable person. Man, are they ever good at messaging (i.e. propaganda).
23
That same ‘strong moral compass’ allowed Barack Obama to spend 20 years in a church led by the antisemitic and anti American Pastor Jeremiah Wright. Not all is black and white.
12
@Malone Cooper
The same moral compass where Obama broke the law allowing DACA people to remain in the country. Obama swore to uphold The Constitution and it is very clear that in the Constitution, *Congress legislates* and The Executive enforces the law.
SCOTUS tied 4-4 with swing justice Kennedy voting it was illegal. When it goes in front of the court again it will be declared illegal.
Read the chapter on Orban in Madeleine Albright’s recent book. I defy anyone - other than Tea Party lunatics - to support Trump’s “strategy” here.
And by the way: using sophisticated traditional geopolitical analysis to attempt to divine exactly what Trump’s strategy is is a fool’s errand. He doesn’t think that deeply. His approach here is simple: I have another chance to do the exact opposite of Obama. Stop talking to me about it and get moving.
The sad thing about this “presidency” (ok, one of a zillion sad things, and hardly the worst) is that Trump’s staffers can get Trump to do whatever they want simply by saying “This is the opposite of what Obama did.”
71
Trump is simply carrying out his job duties as Putin's agent.
14
Trump's worldview resonates with his base. Core to this worldview is a tribal distaste for diversity which fits in well with trends in Europe.
The future belongs to communities and countries that celebrate diversity. Creativity and brainpower are stimulated by diversity, which is why the US leads.
6
This is hardly surprising news. Especially since Viktor Orban already built a wall in 2015 to keep immigrants and refugees out.
That he should find a friend and ally in this equally xenophobic and race-baiting president is not unwarranted, but it does not bode well for the futures of either country.
44
@N. Smith You mean "built a wall to stop the invasion of Hungary".
All countries have the right and obligation to determine who can and cannot enter. And this notion that all economic migrants get to decide where they live is the great lie of our age.
21
@GeorgePTyrebyter
You say "All countries have the right and obligation to determine who can and cannot enter", and that is hard to disagree with, but Hungary are members of the EU and have signed up to free movement of people!
@GeorgePTyrebyter
I meant exactly what I said, thank you. How you choose to interpret it is entirely your affair.
As for the current immigration situation in Europe, I too think that something must be done -- but there's a right way and a wrong way to do everything.
1
Yet another place where the frightened and under-educated people in rural areas respond to the rude, crude, and immature promises of con men and their xenophobic rhetoric to embrace isolation and authoritarianism. Witness the votes for Trump, Orban, Brexit, Erdogan, and the like. There is an additional element in Hungary and Poland: The continued appeal of anti-semitism in places whose Jews were essentially all murdered during World War II.
60
Hungary is not Judenfrei. Only about 500000 out of 600000 were killed by The Germans and Hungarians. Most if the survivors were in Budapest. I’d say, today Budapest has over 50000 Jews. Poland is a different case.
Yet another Russian/socialist/communist connection to Trump. How much more circumstantial evidence do we need or are the Republicans going to wait until the Russian flag is flying over the WH?
8
Orban stresses the importance of protecting Christian values from the poor who want to get in. Can't wait for Trump's similar tweet, and his supporters high-fiving it all en masse.
8
This has not happened by accident. The American right-wing press allied with Trump and pushing his White Christian Nationalist agenda have been normalizing the White European Christian Nationalist Viktor Orban. Further, Israel's Netanyahu just met with Orban, much to horror of Israelis, and lead the independent Israeli media to issue a statement condemning an "official visit" by "an anti-Semite, racist, Islamophobe, demagogue, provocateur and liar, who is also anti-democratic, hostile to human rights." In a piece written in The Independent, the co-founders of Marom, a Budapest-based Jewish organization working on social justice issues, stated: "The Government must confront the very real threat of right-wing extremism which has found a place in Hungary." "Last May, a group of men belonging to a far-right youth movement attacked our community centre, the Aurora House. They recorded the action in a video and uploaded it on their website, along with racist and antisemitic slurs and vowing to return. The Orban Government argues that by preventing migration to Europe, they are actually protecting Hungarian Jews from antisemitism coming from Muslim people, which is ridiculous. If the Government would like to do something for the Jewish community in our country, it should confront the actual threat: right-wing extremism. In recent years, Hungary has become a safe haven for neo-Nazis, right-wing activists, racists, and antisemites of all kind...under the Government’s benevolent eye."
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@Robert B From where do you get all these information?? There are a bit incorrect the least.
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"Mr. Trump’s pivot in Hungary deepens their belief that his administration is trying to divide the European Union."
Ha! Trump doesn't know Hungary from the feeling he gets before digging into his bag of McDonald's. It just shows that Bannon and Stephen Miller are in a backroom somewhere on the secret, unofficial secure comms line taking orders from a guy named Vladimir Putin.
No, score yet another win for the Russian Oligarchy over our Allies, NATO, and the EU while the cowards, Ryan and McConnell twiddle their thumbs, keeping the traitor ensconced on his throne of ignorance and hate.
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Please "Google" Arrow Cross, the Nazi puppet state in Hungary. Though not as severe, yet, Orban's actions sometimes look like an early version of it. Bannon is getting the boot and out Ambassador in Berlin is close to persona non grata status as well.
The parallels with the German A.F.D., Orban's Hungary and other right wing despots wannabe groups with our Trump supporter are remarkable. Lower middle and lower class, white, outwardly religious, small town and rural. Orban will never carry Budapest, but that may not matter.
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@JWMathews Another failed attempt to link populism with Nazism. This is not 1935. Orbán is not resurrecting the Arrow Cross. I had family members who were in that organization. Today is nothing like the 1930s. And failed analogies merely demonstrate that the maker of the analogy is not clear on history.
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@JWMathews Actually Orban is very popular in Budapest. I was there during the last election.
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Hungarian Leader Orban is an ugly nativist, a racist, someone who hates an independent media, and seeks to crush them. He uses ugly rhetoric to attack his political opponents He has purged the Hungarian government of dissenting voices, and is cozying up to Russian dictator Vlad Putin.
Yep, he’s Trump’s kind of guy.
8
What is it with the Liar loving strong leaders, leaders identified as thugs?
We all know that the Grifter is a despicable human being and also being a feeble individual attracts him to dictators like Orban.
11
Why, no wonder President BowWow loves him - this man is practically his long-lost twin: hates immigrants and into the methodical destruction of the checks and balances of democracy!
Putin: You'd better beware - trump has never been known for his fidelity. You can be replaced!
7
Trump will be gone, one way or another. But we and our future generations will be stuck with his policies - both foreign and domestic. His devastation of America is just unfair and downright ugly.
Hopefully other European countries, our long time allies, will forgive the United States for Trump’s stupidity and insanity and give us another chance when he’s finally out of DC.
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Strangely enough, I always thought populism was the very definition of democracy. The real fascists are those who think otherwise.
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@Mark
Words dont mean anything, only actions do. Dont look at ideologies, dont look at personalities, look at issues and vote accordingly.
1
Mr. Simonyi was not Mr. Orbán's previous envoy to NATO. Before 2010 he was the Ambassador to the U.S. of the previous, center-left government. So his comments are probably sarcastic.
He is not far right and you know it. NYT has been smearing Orban no matter what he does for decades, shame on you NYT. He's been right with the migration issue and recognized it way before anybody else, if you don't like it that's fine but he has the right to protect his country, and the rest of Europe will follow very soon.
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@Evetke
Refugees were only passing through, they didnt intent to settle. Why did the Hungarian govt imprison them in mass?
Yes Orban is far right, close to Nazism and Fascism. He's fanning the flames of violent racism, including antisemitism,
That is the definition of "far right".
2
So, we are trying to sponsor political actors in Hungary? "the State Department announced a $700,000 grant to help nurture independent media outlets in rural Hungary. "
Sounds like the Russian plan to sponsor political action in the US.
Since when is some forms of political meddling in other countries OK? Since never.
Let the Hungarians make their own decisions. Orbán is popular, and has been democratically elected. He is the man Hungarians want to run their country.
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"To the State Department, the grant would continue a longstanding American effort to promote free speech."
It's cute that the author thinks that's what our government is doing when it hands out money in other countries.
8
Donald Trump singlehandedly has created the perfect storm for the rise to prominence of nasty autocrats like Viktor Orban and other anti-immigrant, anti-democratic opponents of a free press.
These reactionary leaders or wannabe leaders share the same thirst for personal power which drives Trump.
The other common thread – particularly outrageous in Hungary and Poland – is the enthusiastic endorsement by these strongmen of Donald Trump’s blind acceptance of a brutally expansionist Russian Federation under Vladimir Putin.
Unless he is stopped by Americans, Donald Trump will irreparably damage the liberal democratic order, which has served the world so well for more than seven decades.
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Viktor Orban's best friend in Congress is Andy Harris from Maryland. He calls Orban a "defender of Western Civilization and Hungary's traditional values and cultural heritage." He supported cutting the grant to help independent press and penned a "Dear Colleague" letter to try and gain support for the cut. Tillerson ignore him, Pompeo did not.
2
Trump wants to promote free speech in Hungary?
Looks more like a Hungarian Sinclair propaganda effort to me.
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"It's in Western interests to talk to this guy (Orban)". This is diplomatic nonsense. The United States can say whatever it wants to a creep like Orban, whenever and however it chooses. The words can come in an email, not in a conversation of equals straddling a teapot. If Russia decides to militarily invade Hungary and Poland, the resulting war will be catastrophic for the world. If Russia vastly increases its propaganda battle against the EU, it is the US's responsibility to shatter the Russians on the stage of international relations and business. Oh, right, and when does our fake president leave office?
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Just came back from Hungary.It never looked better.The leader of the German Jewish community advised it's members to avoid appearing Jewish.In Budapest it seems to be safe to be Jew.
Is it a sin to be proud to be Hungarian and not want to submerge it's culture ?The Orban government represents the will of it's people much more than the terrible Merkle government.
It is Germany that does not pay it's fair share to Nato, has a huge trade surplus with us, destabilized Europe with it's open border policy, makes huge pipe line deal with Russia,does not have our back vs Iran.There is a world vision of Soros, Obama of open borders, One World that sounds utopian like communism did but the world is not ready yet.
22
@GDK
First of all, the Chancellor of Germany's name is Angela Merkel, not Merkle (she's not related to the Duchess of Sussex). There is nothing terrible about the highly intelligent, competent woman who has led the most important country in Europe the past dozen years. How ironic that people such as yourself slander Dr
Merkel because she will not bend to the will and whims of our dangerously incompetent and willfully ignorant president. Thank God that Dr. Merkel , now the de facto leader of the Free World, has stood her ground against Trump and the murderous Vladimir Putin (Better Russian than Democratic, eh, GOP)? Our own policies have put us at a disadvantage with Germany. who did not cause us to run up a debt in the trillions, neglect our infrastructure, leave millions without healthcare, etc. Germany has taken good care of itself without fracturing the liberal international order. If only the United States could honestly claim the same.
5
@Ron Landers
Slander?Anti-Semitic attacks in Berlin True Meeting with Putin outside of Berlin to discuss building natural gas pipeline from Russia that makes Germany dependent on Russia.True .Her own party rebuked her reckless open border stance.True.Germany is not making her fair share contribution to Nato.True.
The world has seen The Communist International. Are we seeing now the formation of a Fascist International? Polling of Americans suggest that many Republicans have a growing regard for Vladimir Putin. Over 70% said that they approve Trump's relationship with Putin; about the same percentage reject the claims of US intelligence services that Russia interfered in the 2016 election. It seems that nothing alters the support for Trump throughout his base, whether it is the white supremacist section, the religious dominance section, or just the plain greedy. GOP leaders have had ample opportunity to reject the gross, ill-mannered, and ill-informed behavior of Trump, but have failed every test. How far down the fascist rabbit-hole will they follow Trump?
4
Thanks to the European Union, small countries like Hungary and Poland no longer are victims of bullying neighbours as they so often were in history.
They even have a say on base of equivalence in European affairs in Brussels. But their leaders are overreaching: in the end the essence of the EU is the relationship between Germany and France. Everything else is sideshow and it's very, very foolish to step out of line the way they do.
2
Victor Orban is not eurosceptic when it comes to EU funds.
His close allies are doing fine from EU funding see this report from Reuters https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/hungary-orban-balaton/
Why is it that Trump and the Republicans are attracted by corruption?
5
Sounds good,
But if the USA doesn't speak up for itself in foreign lands, who there will? The US generally notes it's PR as being provided by the US gov. The problems come when our nation's leaders lie. Don't like that?
Vote against them.
The CIA?
Now THAT'S another matter.
1
How telling that the Orban government of Hungary is so desperate to silence voices that may be in opposition to its rule that it lobbies against the seven hundred thousand dollars on offer from the American State Department to assist in the establishment of rural media outlets and that, when Secretary Pompeo obligingly complies the Hungarian Ambassador to the US declares the withdrawal of these monies “A huge victory,” that "sends a message that Hungary is O.K., that Hungary is a democracy.” There isn't enough lipstick in the world to prettify this pig.
6
Of course Trump likes Hungary’s leader. Hungary is back in the orbit of Russia. Talk about a short memory. Wow. In the meantime our allies of a few centuries get blasted. Short memory nothing in Trump’s case because he knows nothing about history and lasting relationships.
4
It seems to me that Mr. Cornstein is wrong. My theory is that Trump likes authoritarian leaders because he recognizes that he is not the strong leader he wishes he was. One reason is because there are too many constraints on him in our system. Critics like to posit that he could suspend the constitution and enact martial law overnight, but in reality that would be next to impossible for him to accomplish. The other reason is because for all his bluster, threats and bullish ways, he simply doesn't have what it takes to overthrow a system of government. Trump is basically a lazy man who would much rather play golf, eat dinner and regale his friends with lies about himself. Overturning a government takes hard work and a determination Trump simply doesn't have. Then there's his inability to inspire crowds--other than the adoring few thousand or so that come out to his rallies. He is so inarticulate that his speeches are just gibberish. All good dictators have to be capable of rousing hundreds of thousands, even millions, to do their bidding. Trump simply can't do it. Trump likes strongmen precisely because he is not one, and hanging around them feeds his image of himself as one. But, in reality, he'd rather tweet and have another piece of cake than do the hard work of taking over the country.
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I don't understand how you can write an article like this and not talk about all the visits to Hungary by people in Trump's circle during the election campaign. This is a story that hasn't been given nearly the airtime it needs. Why did J.D. Gordon travel there six times, for example, given Hungary's close ties with Russia? And given that Budapest is the European headquarters of the FSB? Contrary to your slogan, "the truth", in this case at least, actually isn't that hard to find.
7
"President Trump thinks that he is a very strong leader,” David B. Cornstein, a longtime friend of Mr. Trump’s said"
Europe has had a few strong leaders in their recent history, and I don't think Ambassador Cornstein or Trump would have wanted to live under those strong leaders. There wasn't much demand for luxury hotels and golf resorts in those days.
3
Mr. Orban is the most influential populist leader in Europe.
The sentence should read " Mr Orban is the most influential popular leader in Europe".
This is one of the few European leaders to attempt to protect what it means to be European.
Why would anyone think that migrants from Africa, Asia and the Middle East have the right to move to Europe without permission . Angela Merkel ruined large segments of Europe with her " we can do it " stupidity. Now we watch as these same migrants bring their crime, their ignorance and their prejudices to bear against the natives of Europe, it makes me cringe. The liberal press has painted Orban out to be evil, he is not, he is truly attempting to protect what it means to be Hungarian. Is that wrong ?
27
@Tom ,Retired Florida Junkman Orban was democratically elected on 3 separate occasions. He is the DEMOCRATICALLY elected leader of Hungary. And he has defended Hungary from the forces of darkness and invasion, as you note. This is good. This is what Hungarians want. Why are we trying to undermine the democratically elected leader of an ally?
9
@Tom ,Retired Florida Junkman Yes it is wrong.
2
@Tom ,Retired Florida Junkman
All those pesky migrants you refer to are people whose lives have been disrupted and threatened with wars, fascist "west-friendly" dictators, imperialistic oppression for more than half a century. Guess whose bloody fingerprints are all over the map of Africa...and while we're at it, Central & South America, & other "unimportant" little places in the world?
For a start, read "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" by John Perkins. Then follow that with "The Sorrows of Empire" by Chalmers Johnson. There's an entire reading list waiting to enlighten you on how Western colonialism, imperialism, and big corporations have stirred the pot in the Middle East & Africa and have ignited a few genocides along the way, creating hordes of people in despair.
3
This is cynical and dangerous. Where is the EU, a product after all, of post WWII aspirations and fears, in pushing back Hungary and Poland as illiberalism and the consolidation of power in nondemocratic regimes rise? In taking a risk and saying without rights, protections and democracy in practice, you are out? And for the US to actively support illiberalism in Hungary through the words of our leader and now through State Dept funding--by pulling it back--who will call the US out on this? This can't remain a partisan issue--democracy needs to matter more than whether you are a Republican and winning. Here's the original grant. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hungary-us-media/u-s-launches-media-f...
Shame on us.
60
@gracie Shame on us for what? We were going to meddle in the internal affairs of Hungary, and have decided not to.
Since when is meddling in the internal affairs of other countries a US value? It is not.
8
Now, now. Let's not forget our CIA has a long and distinguished clandestine history of covertly meddling in the internal affairs of other countries.
I think that would qualify as a covert US value wouldn't it?
@GeorgePTyrebyter
supporting a free press is not meddling. in fact, those ind journalists could use their independence to criticize the US.
Trump can't be a fascist alone, he needs the help of other fascists to learn how to consolidate power. Let's face it, what people like Orban has, that Trump does not, is good to great oratory skills. Trump's public speaking leaves something to be desired. His base are the only ones who beleive in him, because they are mostly racist and fascists themselves. If Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Castro, etc., spoke like Trump, they would have all need up at the end of a hangman's noose or shot against a wall.
So, another month, and Trump embraces another dictator. While, at the same time, making the United States a pariah state. I am just waiting for him to get buddy, buddy with Chairman Xi of China. As for Turkey, Trump wants to bring down the EU, and Turkey is the perfect "keystone" in his plan. Once he creates a new recession, his 1% friends will rush in and grab the rest of the wealth they could not get 10 years ago.
Meanwhile, in the US, both political parties are engaging in wedge issues and social issues, for the mid terms. Just what our own oligarchs want.
13
Birds of a fascistic feather.
125
@Socrates
Welcome back! Where have been? I missed your comments and began to get concerned if you switched to the dark side!
3
"“President Trump thinks that he is a very strong leader,” David B. Cornstein, a longtime friend of Mr. Trump’s who became the United States ambassador to Budapest ... “And our president admires strong leaders, and looks forward to this relationship going forward.”"
Of course Orban is a strong leader. Who wouldn't be without the need to deal with the niceties of multiple parties, press criticism, and the messiness of democratic process?
Anybody can be dictator if they have the military behind them. It takes guts and leadership to sustain democracy.
Every time I hear about Steve Bannon meddling overseas to promote right-wing governments (read, budding dictatorships) I cringe. This is the guy who believes in working with Putin to divide the world into two spheres of white Christian dominance, to keep the masses (and different skin colors) at bay.
Donald Trump's support of strongmen comes as no surprise, as he lusts for that kind of power himself.
Keeping Hungary and Poland in the "western" alliance is nothing more than a sham excuse to cozy up to Putin who's just itching to march right into these countries and begin the division of the world.
Trump, "geopolitical genius, follows Putin's lead, as part of the master plan.
Vote this November.
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@ChristineMcM
Well put! And, yes yes, please vote in November....
2
All part of the Trump "Best People" plan.
Last September, Trump invited Najib Razak, Prime Minister of Malaysia and now in jail over charges of stealing billions from Malaysia development funds. Of course, Trump had been warned by the FBI and CIA but still welcomed him warmly as "my friend".
But leaders who steal government money, shut down the press, arrange extrajudicial killings, imprison opponents, people like Orban, Putin, Duterte, Kim Jong Un, Razak and others are Trump's "Best People".
And Pompeo is the new Social Director for Trump's World's Best People list.
75
With the United States embroiled in investigations of foreign influence in our elections why would anyone think it was appropriate for the United States government to fund news organizations in another country? This is an obscene double standard. If the US government wants to sponsor news in a foreign country, we should do it through an official American government news agency similar to Radio Free Europe.
96
You are spot on. It is called meddling.
1
@Mike -Nonsense. You are comparing two totally different programs. The Russian attack on our election system was covert and designed to destabilize free elections as well as the illegal hacking of computers of political parties. The stated purpose of this program is "The U.S. Department of State, Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor (DRL) announces an open competition for organizations interested in submitting applications for projects that increase citizens’ access to objective information about domestic and global issues in Hungary."
There is no comparison between the covert electoral interference in our elections and this program.
9
@Mike
Agreed, but we're not really sponsoring "news organizations" in other countries; we're funding propaganda organs that promote ideas and policies that are friendly to U.S. corporate and military interests.
7