It is sad that the USA is not a country anymore that supports vision and technological renewal.
Government artificially props up 19th and 20th century oil+ gas companies, while Europe, China + obviously the Saudis are investing in the future. Thank goodness Musk sees clearly here. I wish he had the necessary support at home.
5
Mr. Musk seems to be the epitome of people that believe it is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. If you are building an atomic bomb to save democracy a la General Groves, we might overlook a my way or the highway personality for a few years. Building an electric car, when other people already sell them (I have a Leaf that does well for a lot, lot, lot less) does not meet that standard.
Looks like he's looking for a way out: bleeding cash, labor issues, pesky regulatory requirements. Little Lord Fauntleroy doesn't like having to be accountable. He just wants to play with his submarine.
1
Could Mr. Musk have been intentionally drawing attention to Twitter's need to exercise discretion?
Twitter's become a voice with vast reach but no filter. They've profited for years subsuming the markets of journalists without assuming any of the responsibilities held by the professionals they displaced. Other tech companies that had done the same have lately adopted crowdsourced censorship. Twitter has wisely foregone this approach, but in favor of doing nothing.
Mr. Musk may be forcing the issue with his statement. If the Times had originated its publication, or the Journal, what would the SEC have done?
His price of $420 also evokes the "4:20" associated with cannabis culture, suggesting a wink to the audience.
2
The Saudi's investing in an electric car company? That's like a solar panel company buying a coal-fired generator to provide the electricity to heat, light and run the machinery in their factory.
2
@Mark
I respectfully disagree - it is a country that is dependent on 20th century energy and sees very well that they need to divest + transition to a source that they have more of:
SUN > batteries > electric cars (etc)
That is what Elon Musk means with 'longterm strategy vs quarterly results.
1
@msf Let's not forget that their "leader" has family members killed and tortured. His mother has been imprisoned. Taking Saudi money is a dangerous game and once Trumps & Kushners are out, their largesse might become ... lesser.
If Musk has a deal, let's see it! The downside of both is zero The Saudi's are no fools and have been taken before. If I were a stockholder, I would be worried about being thrown under the bus. I suppose any deal is better than immediate bankruptcy. Ask yourself one question. Why would anyone trade an equity stake for a debenture? The downside of both is $0 and the upside of the debenture is more limited.
If any deal gets made, wait until you see the haircut current investors take if they don't put up more money.
1
Smart guy. But how is it he can manipulate the stock price with a tweet like this? As a stock holder do you want him controlling the price of the stock this way?
1
@B Mcc
But not nearly as smart as he seems to think he is.
@Sundevilpeg
Such an arrogant thing to say about anybody, let alone one of the world's most successful and remarkable people. Who do you think you are?
1
Everyone is hyper-focused on Elon and missing the far larger story that owners know.
Cars are amazing and never going back to gas.
Everyone who drives one wants one
Having no dealers ripping you off, finally!
Waking up with full tank every day is great.
Free “gas” via supercharger network locks you into to tesla infrastructure.
Software updates keeps car fresh.
Every drive is amusement park ride fun. Puts a smile on your face.
Gas engines are over.
Other car companies way behind, like Nokia trying to catch up to Apple.
Elon is doing an amazing job growing this company by simply putting out amazing products.
Not surprised at all when stock keeps on going up as company keeps on growing.
But yeah, lets keep focused analyzing a couple of tweets.
Jeez!
Next year’s headline “Electric cars coming faster than anyone imagined - how’d we miss that?”
8
@Bob Wells
Mr. Wells, you sound like you have been drinking the cool aid. First of all, Tesla's cars already on the road are considered expensive by many. He has stumbled badly in trying to design and build an affordable vehicle and shows no real signs of being able to do so consistently. As other comments have stated, and is true, is that the company has never generated a profit in 15 years.
Think of it, he has made a company that has existed and brought in capital for 15 years on a promise that has not been kept. He would do well in politics. Now, Mr Wells, what will you do when your wonderful vehicle does not have a company to support it?
7
@Bob Wells
Electric cars may indeed be the future, but Tesla might not be part of that. Other real car companies (you know, the ones that build cars at a profit) have been releasing their own electric cars and some giants are poised to dominate that market.
2
@Bob Krantz
You mean like Jaguar with the iPace, that is only planning production of 20k vehicles? Or maybe Porsche, also planning on only 20k vehicles? Or maybe Volvo, committed to "full electrification" (ie hybrids, so still run on gas). All of them are limited by 3 things:
1. Biggest: they don't produce their own batteries. So supply-limited.
2. Insufficient commitment to full electric drive trains. Electric car drivers never want to go back to gas. Even Einhorn isn't switching from Tesla to a gas Jag. Says a lot.
3. Sunk capex costs they'll need to recoup first, or take a loss for once they realize that full electric is the future. By then it'll be too late.
By the way, I only drive a Leaf, not a Tesla, and electric is far superior to every gas car I've ever driven. Including a Cayenne. Loved its handling and interior, but gas now always feels laggy compared to electric.
Tesla has never made a profit in its 15 years of existence and is under severe operational stress (they are building cars under tents) so why would any sensible person want to add to its fixed costs? Any deal to take Tesla private would require huge borrowing.
8
It might be necessary to examine the practice of relying on tweets as the most important source of information on any subject. Is being informed really that much work?
4
When he first stated about going public, read it as Elon needs more cash flow because the smart investor is tiring of the returns. Now is talking with Saud's?
I remember back when everyone was talking about the new golden boy Elon Musk and sending their investment dollars to him...many have come before. It's easy spending other people's monies, returning it is a lot harder, esp to shareholders.
2
Hope he doesnt . Musk is a visionary and an inspiration. What will happen when the public shareholders get hold of him.
The ETA on Musk imploding is nearing. Six months tops.
5
The world needs electric autos, trucks, and superconducting Maglev guided surface transport for trucks, freight containers autos, and passengers and space launch. See www.magneticglide.com for the future surface Maglev transport or read James Powell's "Silent Earth, Will Humans Give Up Fossil Fuels?"
Earth's fossil fuels will deplete, very rapidly, as the peoples of the World prosper and increase in number. Some project 9-11 Billion by Century's end.
Tesla cars seem to be a good entry into the global market. The passenger vehicles that I have seen driving along the hellish commute to the Capitol, look good.
However, Mr. Musk should stay away from Twitter. Twitter is not a good place for public communications of company policy.
So far I have only read one report on his ideas that are not sound and that is a passenger vehicle operating in an airless tube. This demonstrated to me that he was not carefully thinking through the problem. It would be an engineering design challenge to break the air-lock for passenger use. Think of it.
Central to the future is very low-cost electricity. Cheap electricity can be captured in space and beamed to Earth with Maglev launch.
Dr. James Powell, the inventor of superconducting Maglev, has proposed launching solar satellites to geosynchronous orbit by propelling a payload carrier with Maglev in a vacuum launch tube and it has to break the vacuum at the instant the vehicles exits. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0-npDJlxCA
3
@james jordan
Mr. Musk is a young, entrepreneur, who is endeavoring to overcome complex market barriers to address the necessity of transforming the human need for mobility to electric power away from internal combustion engines, which are not sustainable because of global warming and the finiteness of fossil fuels. The market will eventually determine the success of making the shift away from fossil fuels and the market will respond with its loyalty to value, performance and price being two important determinants.
Tesla's success will be determined by the market and a fostering of the market by regulators who work in the public interest based on honest testing of the safety, and health benefits of new products.
Necessity is the mother of invention & we have an entrepreneur who is responding to probably the greatest challenge of our time: global warming and reducing emissions of greenhouse gases.
Advanced economies, like America, are absolutely dependent on fossil fuels and that must change. Mr. Musk should be allowed to compete on a level playing field with the other transport offerings.
I suggest he and we need to rethink logistics.
Over an 80-year lifetime, the average American has 800,000-ton miles of freight transported in the US by truck and rail. For an average transport distance of 400 miles, that is 2,000 tons of freight to keep us fed, healthy, housed, entertained, working, and able to travel.
Our next move should be to build a national maglev network.
3
I planned to buy a tesla in the near future, but there's no way on Earth I would support working with the Arabs or any other country or entity with abominable ethics and morals. Guess I will be looking at other options.
3
@De currently you drive a car that is powered on oil purchased from these places, you use plastics too. It's not like Saudi will own Tesla. They will just provide a loan.
3
The Saudis will buy shares from the shareholders that do not want limited visibility and little liquidity, loosely estimated at at least 33%. They are not doing a loan.
Do you currently buy gasoline or pay taxes? Either way, you (and I) are providing money to the Saudis.
Why is there a debate of "intent"?
Do we think he tweeted something not well advanced as advanced for other reasons than to effect his stock price?
I'm scratching my head about the other reasons.
He should be investigated by the SEC - you can't make up stuff and than tweet it to support your stock. That's boiler room, penny stocks mentality.
6
It sounds like Musk is a Trump Univ alum - any publicity is good publicity.
@DMB what did he make up exactly? They are going public, and this article is 100% the opposite of what the board and elon said. The stock went up then down within 24 hours. The only people hurt were stock gamblers, not investors.
2
So TESLA is burning vast amounts of cash and has no real perspective to change this issue.
The Saudi fund is not available, let alone secured to solve the issue. (BTW, such a fund would usually not step in as long as there is perspective of a return of investment)
The entire action was based on Mr. Musk's hatred of short sellers who profit from his own way of running a business to the ground.
The entire action is no less than market manipulation based on a bunch of lies which amounts to a felony.
Why exactly is Mr. Musk still allowed to run this company and why has the SEC not already stepped in?
Is is sufficient to be a friend and admirer of Trump to be awarded a "get out of jail free" card these days?
6
@Thomas Your statement that there is 'no real perspective to change this issue' (burning cash) is not based in fact. There is very good reason to believe Tesla will be operating at a quarterly profit this year. I won't review the data as undoubtedly you have seen it but don't believe it. Should he have tweeted? No. However, most everything that Musk promises comes to fruition, just not at the timetable he is envisioning.
@Bart Wendell,
part of what I do is investment strategies for large investors.
So yes, I have an idea about the data from TESLA.
Since TESLA started as a company there has not been a single car, let alone a model, that earned them any profits.
Quite the opposite, each and every car TESLA has ever produced has also produced further debt for TESLA.
TESLA has accumulated huge amounts of losses and even if, possibly only due to a publicity stunt, one car sold by TESLA will make a profit, there are billions of USD that TESLA needs earn before they make a profit as a company.
TESLA is a fail and will stay a fail.
The only thing that works for TESLA is its marketing and even that is on the demise as people who know how to read a balance sheet will not spend any more money on a lost cause.
The same goes for SpaceX.
Musk is good at selling snake oil but not at delivering a profit and that is all that matters to an investors.
Any hype that will not deliver on the profit side is simply not interesting to an investor.
So people who invested big are asking questions.
And that is the reason why Musk is trying to get rid of the SEC watchdogs.
The SEC too is able to read balance sheets and usually does not fall for pure marketing gags.
This all may be true. But the real value of Tesla is in the battery technology and those patents. The car seems like the platform for inventing, testing and validating.
I know how Elon Musk stepped in to "save" Tesla, and I applaud him for that, but there will come a time when he does more harm than good for Tesla, at which point he should probably pass the torch to someone else.
The only thing I hate more than stock manipulation is short selling. Short selling is, at best, sheer gambling, and, at worst, market terrorism. Shorting has never prevented any bubbles. It has no function in the market. Musk did the wrong thing, but if shorts are the casualties, so be it.
4
@richguy
You have it wrong. Short selling is totally legal, and improves market efficiency (there is a very long list of academic articles backing this up). Stock price manipulation is illegal and destroys faith in stock markets.
5
@richguy short or long they're both gambling -- only difference is whose money you're gambling with.
5
@RSSF it's been illegal multiple times through out us history and was originally blamed for the 1929 market crash. It is legal because it was paid to be.
I’m torn between my support for Elon and his businesses - all of which I truly believe in what they are doing, especially Tesla and SpaceX, for our future survivability as a species - and hating on the Saudis, and this fund is an extension of the Kingdom’s government. I believe the entire free world should be condemning the KSA for its oppressive dictatorship and standing in solidarity with Canada right now, and cease all oil purchases from KSA and buy from Canada instead, a country that values freedoms and puts the income towards finding renewable energy instead of supporting a country that runs an oppressive dictatorship and who’s oil income lines the pockets of its corrupt leaders and dictator.
I love Elon, and support what is best for Tesla, but man... hard pass on all things that support the dictatorship of Saudi Arabia.
6
@Adam Halinaty.. so you freely admit that you are part of a cult of personality?
9
He's talking NOW to Goldman Sachs and Silver Lake? That is not "funding secured" a week ago. SEC needs to take him out. There were losers and winners to the tune of $10 billion (in stock and option price changes) following that tweet. One of the biggest market manipulations ever in history that he should not be allowed to get away with.
18
@RSSF no its not. They are going private, and that stock will continue to go up. Shorts are gamblers and not investors, and have repeatedly attempted to manipulate the stock to go down for the past 8 years by releasing false information.
I’m a bit ignorant of stock trading, so can anyone who understands it inform me: why would experienced investors and/or traders even trade on this information if it seemed to come out of left field and only from Twitter? Aren’t there proper channels that usually announce these kinds of things, like SEC filings that people who invest in these companies would be privy to? And wouldn’t the lack of those announcements cause one to deem it imprudent to trade on a single tweet (even/especially if it comes from an erratic CEO)? Wouldn’t it be “buyer or seller beware” since that info becomes public all at once (i.e. not insider trading)? I fully get that he likely sent that tweet to cause an acute market fluctuation in his favor, but is that not a reason why there SHOULD be proper channels for this kind of info?
4
@Just Curious
Trading is often the art of trapping bulls or bears. In this case, bears were trapped ("funding secured") so price immediately rose toward $420, but stalled once traders on both sides realized it might not be accurate. Yes, there are proper channels for disclosures. At this point, trading Tesla is very risky as reflected by margin requirements and headlines/tweets that move the stock. It's very volatile which means, in my view, that the underlying business is also volatile. Elon once said, when bashing Buffett of all people, he didn't need a moat. My view is he needs a moat.
6
@Just Curious. Simply to make money. Nothing else.
3
@Just Curious
It's not the tweeting that's the problem. The problem is spreading false information to manipulate stock price.
9
Trump & Musk have something in common, huge egos that they seem unable to control..
I doubt that Elon is sufficiently self-aware or humble enough to realize that it is time for the visionary to step aside and to allow a true people-leader to take the helm at Tesla. From Apple to Facebook to Uber great companies faltered when they lacked leaders with the organizational skills to create healthy corporate cultures and efficient corporate processes.
I believe in Elon but I don't believe in Tesla. Unless Elon realizes that he isn't the right person to create the disciplined corporate culture required to ensure that all 50,000 employees are treated with respect and are focused on producing every single car to the same exacting standards of quality Tesla is doomed to failure. BMW, Mercedes, Porsche & Toyota are hot on their heals and will Tesla by if Telsa remains so entirely dependent upon a single individual.
I fear Tesla is already in the rear-view mirrors of the German automakers....
Elon needs to focus his attention on burrowing under LA, sending rockets into space, or creating high speed people movers. He is too self-centered and egotistical to effectively lead a huge company.... But my of my what a visionary....
6
@REX DUNN. Visionary? That's a laugh. People were doing solar long before SolarCity, people were making electric cars long before Tesla, and people were putting Rockets into space long before SpaceX.
Musk is nothing but a huckster.
13
@Celeste That's interesting. I waited over 2 years for my Model 3 and it is a better car than all of the german cars I have owned. Interesting that you thought there was a competitor out there. I guess I missed that. Tesla has huge competitive advantages beyond the cars themselves which even Porsche will need more than a year or two to overcome. Should Musk have tweeted? No. Is he building new and unique products? Yes. He is an extremely competent individual with significant flaws.
@Celeste
Couldn't agree more. And people who should know better have signed on with this grifter - like the Mayor of Chicago, for one:
"(Rahm) Emanuel’s administration has selected Musk’s company from four competing bids to provide high-speed transportation between downtown and the airport."
It's "The Simpsons" Monorail ep come to life, but with real people's money. Pray for us.
So from what I have read in the Times of late, the NYT editors, contributors, and readers by and large hate:
Facebook,
Google,
Uber,
Lyft,
Trip Advisor (Trip Advisor? Really??),
and Tesla.
(Amazon doesn’t fare too well either)
Wow. I can only imagine what you all would have thought about Henry Ford!
3
From the articles I’ve read over the years, the Times has been either fair handed or favorable to Tesla. I suppose it’s an issue of interpretation. Either way, the more info the better, even if you don’t like it.
8
It's so funny how hyper-focused some people are about Elon's tweets. Yes, he can be a bit reactive, and given his passion for Tesla, he can say some ill-advised things. He also loves to prove the shorts wrong, which is probably what prompted this latest tweet. That said, taking Tesla private is probably a prudent move. Tesla is a long term play, one that's ill-suited to the short term whims of Wall Street.
This issue aside, the doubters should take a step back and look at the broader picture. Tesla has taken an industry from nothing and transformed that industry into one that is here to stay -- so much so that all of the traditional automakers are playing catch up and are almost all investing in electric cars. Telsa makes great cars -- not just great electric cars -- cars that are truly best in class. Tesla built both a national and international high-speed charging network. Tesla has built a factory now churning out thousands of cars a week, along with huge gigafactories to produce the required advanced batteries and solar panels and solar roof tiles.
If you want to zoom in on a couple poor decisions, fine, but please consider the bigger picture and the success they've achieved in spite of all the obstacles that stood -- and continue to stand -- in their way.
13
I see the normal comments about Tesla which are typically ignorant of the truth. It is normal for average people to be confused about new technology, especially something that could be a big change in the way we do things. There are many stakeholders who will suffer if Tesla (and electric vehicles) are successful. So, there are a lot of untruths out there that many of the commenters here have obviously fallen for. What surprises me is that the NYTs has allowed comments on a Tesla article. Like most corporations, the NYTs is not really a supporter of paradigm shifts. They, like every other corporation, like things as they are. That is not to say that some of their journalist aren't forward thinking people, but the corporation is just another large bureaucracy that hates upstarts.
If Musk sold stock then it was fraud. If not, what did he gain?
Tesla was not funded by government grants, they had a loan which they paid back and they have never been the recipient of any government technology, so no, the tax payers did not pay to build tesla, The tax payers have actually made money on Tesla because they paid interest on the loans.
The Saudis are not that rich. If their were smart people in corporate america, funding to take tesla private could come more easily from the huge piles of money sitting in corporate america's coffers. But america is invested in oil, and coal and old garbage like that, because corporate america is greedy and not concerned with the future.
4
Every car Tesla has sold their buyer has gotten a 7500 dollar tax credit from Uncle Sam. Plus the only profit they ever shhow comes from ZEV or Zero Emission Vehicle credits they then sell. They have gotten millions from the Government. The taxpayer lose millions on Tesla.
5
Every automaker gets access to the same tax credits, not just Tesla. These tax credit me serve a purpose — to help jump start an industry. Consider them mission accomplished.
2
@Jamie The purpose isn't strictly to start an industry. It's an incentive which helps reduce emissions that cause global warming.
There is a big difference between having a meeting and writing a check. It seems that Elon is taking executive lessons from Trump. Tweeting lies for his benefit.
6
Tesla has proved the naysayers dead wrong for years now(and rewarded his stalwarts with huge returns). I can imagine some day Tesla may come crashing down and the pundits will pound their chests with pride. But that’s not much to be proud of in my view - a stopped clock is right twice a day. I for one applaud the risk takers like Elon Musk. But must admit his high wire act is getting a pretty wacky.
3
Many NYT readers are probably too young to remember, and the name "John DeLorean" has no direct association with Elon Musk and Tesla, but a long time ago (circa 1980-82) Mr. DeLorean and DeLorean Motors found itself in a similar predicament. I wonder if Musk will see it all come crashing down in the not too distant future. Rather than the "white lines" DeLorean was arrested for, maybe Musk will learn it's the black veins of crude which are his unhinging. So sad, because Tesla's business model was unique, and the all electric vehicle has been making great strides into the weaning off of fossil fuels and promoting cleaner air.
2
“Tesla’s business model was unique”. It’s not past tense yet. Tesla is still unique. Many and more have shorted Tesla only to have proclaimed its demise either wrongly or far too soon. I imagine some day Tesla may come crashing down to the glee of the naysayers. But then a stopped clock is right twice a day.
2
@Peter Vander Arend Sorry, you simply cannot compare DeLorean to Musk. DeLorean built a niche car that simply wasn't that good and that he couldn't produce (not that that mattered, since demand wasn't there). Musk transformed an industry, and Tesla has now delivered over 200K great cars. The Model 3 had a half million pre-orders from something that was vaporware at the time.
6
One distinct difference between Delorean and Tesla - I live in rural New England. A few weeks ago, I counted three Tesla's on my way home. I haven't seen three Deloreans in my life.
During the dot com irrational exuberance - the WSJ came up with a hype index - something similar to a Dow Jones average.
This hype index was derived from how many reporters are gushing about a particular stock in their reporting tied to an actual increase in stock price.
And reporters were fed this hype by stock analysts and stock pickers.
It was all madness.
In Tesla case, this hype index is number of Elon's tweets about his own company.
If history is a prologue, Tesla is headed the way all those dot com wonder stocks and demise of irrationally exurbetent reporters, analysts.
And here Elon is headed towards that soeace orbit where he is about to "touch the sun" and get badly burnt.
6
@Neil *burned
He manipulated the stock price, and is now trying to cover up. A verbal interest on part of a foreign sovereign fund (even if that happened) is not "funding secured". He is trying to squeeze the shorts, set a floor for the convertible bonds coming due, and bought $25 million worth of shares in open market for $340 each two months ago https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000149473018000005/xslF3... (which he shouldn't have if for "two years" he's been thinking about going private. His market moving tweet made $10 billion worth of winners and losers, and is probably one of the biggest manipulations in the history of the markets. He needs to go, as does the board of his stooges, and be prosecuted for securities fraud. This happened at Uber, and time for the same at Tesla.
24
Sure sounds like you shorted Tesla stock.
1
@Jamie Actually, it sounds like he read the article. And it sure sounds like Musk committed a financial crime, which a really successful company head would not do. Have fun on your bottle rocket, and enjoy the fall when it bursts.
So the fossil fuel fools now want to build electric cars? Dubious.
1
It's going to be funny in a couple years once we have all learned what's going on behind the scenes at Tesla. It is most certainly not all above board.
5
Made in America and Funded by Saudi Arabia. Really? 9/11 is all but forgotten?
But here is why I don't believe you Elon. I don't think the Saudis offered or that you were willing to accept. That is because you are a master manipulator and supreme egotist who is willing to say anything to one up your doubters and competitors. This was a ham handed attempt to hurt those shorting Tesla stocks and to set a floor for the convertible bonds that are coming due shortly. You have lied repeatedly about your company's forthcoming profitability (tomorrow never comes in your case) and projected a sense of financial health that not only does not exist but is likely a pie in the sky even as a future projection. You have manipulated your board into offering you an incentive to say anything about your company that will get it to a market capitalization in excess of $600B. You are a case study for both on how to set about achieving engineering goals that seemingly elude others and for a CEO who thinks he is above the rules.
I hope that NASDAQ finds your tweets to be in violation leading to a de-listing of your company and that the SEC finds your tweet to be manipulative and guilty of market fixing. Those offensive vices along with engineering genius is how we want you to be remembered. A leader you are NOT.
But i do hope that the Saudis are the only one who will fund you. You deserve them and they deserve you.
8
Maybe there is some significance in the number $420?
He does reside in California and he is a bit spacey. He also wanted to purchase The Onion and recently aquired several staffers.
I admire much/most of his work and ideas but sometimes he is just looney. A $500 flamethrower toy? It took just four days to sell $10 million worth of flamethrowers? In hot, windy, fire scorched CA thats a forest waiting to happen in the hands a drunk kid...
4
No offense inteneded but I've never read this many deeply uninformed comments to a New York Times article. Uninformed about how securities laws work, how debt-leveraged buyouts work, and, frankly, how human psychology works.
Three days ago, Bloomberg posted an article saying Tesla wanted "a Wide Investor Pool for Its Take-Private Plan." Today, Elon Musk claims that when he said "funding secured," he was referring to the supposed assurances of a single person associated with Saudi investment fund.
Never mind that Telsa's statement contradicted Musks "funding secured" tweet. This CEO, and the Telsa board, can't have it both ways. One of them is just misleading the public on the truth of the matter.
But never mind. If Elon said it, dawgonnit!, it must be true.
7
@Mother Ocean: And if you have CEO's, the board, or the company (via official statements) misleading the public on significant financial aspects of the company, either the government (SEC) steps in with serious sanctions, or the stock markets become pretty much a joke re requirements for responsible and fair dissemination of information.
5
@Roger Geyer - What keeps the stock market from becoming a joke are the class action lawsuits against misleading statements like Musk's, not the government stepping in to protect us.
2
Let’s have some self respect. Would you trust the people who incarcerated their own top business men and extorted money from them. They retaliated against Canada when they expressed concern over human rights. And of course the 9/11 connection, their funding of extremist schools, and their religious fight with Iran.
2
Saudis? Yes get Trumps Saudi 911 Bin Laden supporters with the crazy Kushner arms deal and all that hidden American real estate right into Tesla. Sad and scary
4
Take Tesla private with Saudis? America for sale in the Trump presidency. More than musky, this stinks!
6
Tesla is a dog. Let the Saudis have it.
2
My wife has driven a Tesla S for 3 years driving regularly round trip about 65 miles. There was never a hint of a problem. In my mind the thing that makes Tesla unique is the simplicity of the design vs an Internal combustion engine starting with the greatly reduced part count. Add to that the growing network of super chargers and the continuing improvement of the production facility I'll continue to bet on Elon.
5
Good or great car, I guess. Terribly financed company and headed into the wall.
6
They said that about Henry Ford too.
@Uncle John Sounds like an Apple product
Two myths, the man:
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/539861/techs-enduring-great-man-myth/
and the car, The notion that electric cars costing $80000 or more are going to save the planet. Anybody heard of a sensible system of public transit?
20
Mr Musk is having a lot of troubles securing money for Tesla. He burned tons of cash and just a couple of week ago asked the suppliers to give him back money. It looks like his balance sheet is crumbling. So, just to make the numbers have a minimum of sense he calculated that with an higher value of his shared the balance sheet could not collapse. He made the tweet and in a couple of hours earned some hundreds million dollars. JUST WITH ONE TWEET he has bought some more time for his Tesla. Just to spice things up he added Saudi Arabia, but it has nothing to do with his desperate need of cash
10
there were reports of Tesla business difficulties and manufacturing and delivery goals unmet, key people leaving, the company struggling, and its stock price falling.
with a tweet, stock the price rallied.
is that effective executive leadership? were securities rules broken, or only bent?
6
That may explain why America was silent when the Saudis attacked Canada over a tweet.
It's because the Saudis have a lot of unearned money and they don't care how they waste it.
6
...this is just the beginning of round one of a bidding war for Tesla... Elon places an offer on the table as if perhaps to see who else steps forward. Private it will be, but not Saudi assistance in the end I expect. But then again, Mr Musk is an artist above all, he will go where no one has gone before, in more than one way we hope.
I say keep up the surprises E.M.
1
Well,
I summarize.
I look at Tesla since 2003.
I bought my first and one and only shares ( @20€)
It was amazing to see this project rising.
I sold everything.
For what reason:?
Mr.Musk had lost
-the momentum
-the confidence of his staff
- overview
- focus
-the scope of sustainability
- the most important Aspect: keeping an idea fine and simple.
Good luck Elon Musk:..my electro car will be Jaguar or e.Go mobile
5
The Jaguar i-pace might be the better option if you want to charge your electric car at home. You would have to install a Jaguar-approved home charger which seems to run on both 110 V and 220 V.
The e.Go mobile requires a European Type 2 outlet or schuko plug connector and requires 220 V.
Either way you should include at least $1K, or maybe $5K (if you need to upgrade your home electrical) to get power to your car.
1
@RenegadePriest $500 to put in a NEMA outlet (the same sort that you use for a dryer) will suffice to fully charge a Tesla overnight. No more gas stations and the equivalent of 130 miles per gallon
Ok. Let’s put the facts ahead. Elon is no fool to put his company in the hands of a country which might have conflict of interest. He might be passionate and emotional, tweeting things before he has thought through — but here is where he line ends. He surely has enough strings to pull to keep things from slipping. Secondly electric cars or technology will not die If Tesla is taken off the road. Third in all probability the government will not approve the deal. So what is going on - why would he risk an SEC scrutiny with a tweet. Who listens to tweets. Well this is this his ask for government/Trump intervention to help his company. More tax subsidies and help to boost Tesla? Maybe even protect Tesla early on from external influence? Question is what is he asking the government for?
2
C’mon readers, don’t be so naive. This is all a chess game and Elon is many moves ahead. The very last thing Elon would want is to lose control of Tesla or be CEO for an activist unaligned board. Get real. Twitter is public and immediate so anyone arguing for an SEC filing as being more public or timely will lose. Why would Elon release this information? He is required to by law. It’s that simple.
5
Do Teslas run on smugness? (apologies to South Park). Just how many tax breaks/incentives did he get over the years? Tesla has been heavily subsidized by US taxpayers, but has no problem of moving production to China, as was recently reported. Of course, IP transfer will follow. And now he's willing to sell Tesla to one of the most repressive regimes in the world? The upside is that the current administration will most likely not allow this to happen.
7
@True Norwegian Tesla had a DOE loan several years back (documented in the movie "Revenge of the Electric Car"), which it paid back early. If by subsidies, you mean the $7500 tax credit buyers of all electric vehicles get, that pales in comparison with the subsidies we give to oil companies. Tesla isn't moving production to China, it's expanding production to China, leaving production at Fremont humming away.
As for the Saudi angle, I'm not at all surprised they would want to diversify and not get left at the station. Musk has legitimate reasons for wanting to go private, let's just hope Trump doesn't screw it up.
4
@True Norwegian Read the IMF's study on direct and indirect energy subsidies. Oil and ICE manufacturers have received billions of dollars worth of subsidies.
I think Mr. Musk is a brilliant man in numerous disciplines. These weird Twitter outbursts on all manner of subjects seem illogical.
I had a coworker years ago who seemingly inexplicably began disparaging customers and behaving bizarrely. It turns out she had a brain tumor. Perhaps Mr. Musk should schedule a thorough physical.
9
@itsmildeyes CEO's tend to neglect health. Look at Steve Jobs
1
Elon Musk is far from perfect, but so was Henry Ford, Alexander Graham Bell, Andrew Carnegie and a slew of other revolutionary geniuses. He will misjudge, miscalculate and just plain screw up from
time to time. But when he does hit it out of the park, it alters entire industries and profoundly impacts society itself. One thing that history’s most successful geniuses all have in common, they act almost exclusively in the best interest of fulfilling their vision. Those who don’t act this way fail far more often than not. It’s a cost society needs to occasionally bear if it wants to progress.
4
@AndyW, listing Musk amongst great inventor is an affront to what those men did.
Musk is a man with lots of money who wants himself centered in the spotlight and who loves to feed his huge ego.
He is neither inventor nor engineer, not did he himself do anything other than investing to advance humanity. Remember, Tesla was there before Musk invested.
6
Tell that to Europe, China, Russia, Boeing and Lockheed as SpaceX completely and irreversibly disputed all of their satellite launch businesses. It also seems there a few hundred thousand BMWs, Mercedes, Jaguars and Porsches not sold the past five or six years because a once tiny company shoved its way directly into the most profitable portion of their markets. And by the way, who has the greatest market share in residential solar? The evidence is pretty overwhelming, as is the respect his fellow high tech leaders afford him.
7
@AndyW
Henry Ford, Alexander Graham Bell, Andrew Carnegie all established businesses that made a very substantial profit, without government help. Not so this grifter.
9
It’s so much fun to watch our laws being used as toilet paper by overprivileged sociopaths with inflated senses of self-worth.
22
Saudi would own about 1/3rd of Tesla, not a controlling interest. Anything that sucks billions out of an oppressive theocracy is a good thing.
3
I don’t see how a growth investment would “suck money out of a repressive regime.”
2
Do people understand we wouldn't have to deal with super-rich prima donnas with bad or dangerous ideas if we taxed them the way Eisenhower's administration did?
Sure we had bad actors, but they were unable to do nearly as much damage to the economy when government actually worked and paying taxes was the patriotic thing to do.
Now, any rich guy can sink the stock market with a tweet and the retirement savings of millions of people are at risk.
10
My jaw dropped when I read that Musk is considering selling Tesla to what in effect is the government of Saudi Arabia; the nation with the largest vested interest in killing electric vehicles. What is he thinking? My prediction if the sale goes through is that they will cancel further development and production of “affordable” models like the Model 3, and will refocus on luxury models. That will allow them to have a green halo product, while still ensuring that their vehicles are beyond the economic reach of 99% of consumers. It will be their little way of trying to slow down widespread adoption of the technology, without outright killing the technology in an obvious way. For those who think this is paranoia, look up how Texaco/Chevron used a similar tactic with NiMH batteries; they purchased the patents specifically to limit their use in electric vehicles. It’s called “patent encumbrance” and it’s a common practice, unfortunately. I guess the future of EV innovation now falls to the GM/LG team. Cancel your Model 3 deposit and buy a Chevy Bolt. The last thing any sane EV buyer should want is to send their money to the regressive, oil-soaked, and terrorist-funding House of Saud.
26
So Saudis win either way. They can buy Tesla and destroy it to ensure an oil dependent future or they can nurture Tesla so Saudis win either way. Too bad that giving so much power to the Saudis also perpetuates their religious supremacy toward women and people who aren’t their brand of Islam.
9
@Rick
"They can buy Tesla and destroy it to ensure an oil dependent future "
That horse has left the barn. Much of what's going on in electric vehicles now isn't Tesla, so even if Tesla were to vanish, it would not "ensure an oil dependent future". Slow down a little, maybe, but the trajectory is inevitable now. It's very hard to tell someone in China EV's are bad when they're wearing a mask in order to breathe.
4
The SEC will have fun with this, as will all the lawyers who will file shareholder lawsuits. Just a dumb move.
9
Tesla has had 7 consecutive, quarterly losses ... big losses. In its whole history it has had only 2 quarters of profit. It seems to live on a lot of hype and its own projections. Musk is a smart guy and seems to be a more than capable sales person, but a some point the company it would be nice if the company actually made some money - or am I just naive? Really, I’d love to see Tesla succeed, but unlike Steve Jobs or Bill Gates, Musk is peripatetic instead of focused and that may not be good for the corporation. He needs to pay attention.
9
@Doug Thomson And unlike Jobs and Gates, Musk actually did not found Tesla; he was a venture capitalist who took it over.
Can you imagine an electric car company run by oil barons?
20
Now that's what I'd call "catch and kill."
16
People like Musk and others in USA and Europe
who are drooling over Saudi money
pushed aside human rights abuses and the
inhuman military action in Yemen. It is
very disheartening to watch USA, U.K.
observing silence on Saudis temper tantrum
on the criticism by Canadian foreign minister
on harsh treatment of human rights activists.
Prospects of making money from Saudi
inititiave to develop entertainment industry
and diversification of economy has sealed
the lips of American and British leaders.
Human rights are just a rhetoric and a
political tool for use against China and Russia.
Imagine the crescendo of criticism if 40
children were killed in bombing by Russia
in contrast to defeaning silence over Saudi
bombing in Yemen killing children and
thousands of civilians in 3 years of war.
Saudis are intolerable of outside interference
by the and yet have no qualms about
interfereing in Yemen, Baharain and
numerous other muslim countries where
they propragated their harsh religious
ideology leading to extremism.
30
Good grief people! Almost 20 years ago a Saudi oil minister opined that "the stone age didn't end because we ran out of stones, and the oil age won't end because we run out of oil." They have all the petrodollars we've thrown at them for ever. What did you think they would do with the end of oil in sight? Of course they will invest in the future. I've never seen a stronger endorsement of what Musk has been doing with Tesla. It may seem perverse for "oil people" to stop investing in oil, and become advocates of renewable energy, but it does tell us something important. Don't assume they must be evil or stupid.
48
Not stupid but what they are doing in Yemen surely is the epitome of evil.
12
@Thom Moore - Agreed. A CBS report back in 2010 showed the Saudis investing in solar energy:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/saudi-arabias-big-bet-on-the-sun/
Yes, some are evil, greedy, and stupid. But there are some who are far-sighted.
1
So all of those Tesla fans who cite their desire to save the environment will be just as enthusiastic with the company being owned by the largest oil producer in the world? A country that has engaged in a diplomatic war with our neighbor Canada, that is comitting terrible humanitarian crimes in Yemen, and is itself one of the most repressive (and corrupt) governments on the planet. As the most influential country in manipulating the price of oil, it would be to their advantage to drive Tesla into the ground or at least slow innovation.
And how about Musk’s contributions to Republican PAC’s working to retain control over Congress. Certainly the climate change denying, deregulating, Paris Accord, mileage standard, coastal and Artic drilling destroyers are implementing policies that should make any serious person concerned with the fate of the planet rethink the corporate practice of “maintaining dialogue” (aka making political contributions) to both political parties.
I don’t see a man committed to combatting/mitigating the impacts of climate change and repressive regimes here and abroad. I see another billionaire who’s more interested in money and his image than making a real difference.
35
@rb For the record Saudi Arabia is number 3 worldwide in oil production. Russia and the US are 1 and 2 with the US likely #1 by 2019.
2
I am suspicious that the Saudis want to buy the company to make sure it does not succeed. Why would a country dependent on oil sales promote a vehicle that does not use their product. Reminds me of what was done in many towns across the country when oil companies bought up the town trollies and then tore out the tracks.
11
Come on, people. He's just a well educated, well spoken Scammer. Trump with a triple digit I.Q.. Seriously.
31
Another shiny bauble.
Translation: Things aren't going well in Fremont. Not at all.
Just make the damned cars, Elon.
4
I'm a big fan of Mr. Musk and one day I will purchase a Tesla vehicle . But he can't play with people investing their retirement funds/ savings in his company. Public companies are supposed to provide facts, not speculations.
12
But today you can purchase a Chevrolet Bolt: an EV with a 210-mile range, made in a real factory with real QC, in Orion, Michigan.
7
There are no poor short sellers. And short selling is entirely a voluntary act of pure gambling, based on (or most often causing ) a healthy business's misfortune.
It's rather akin to being able to legally buy life insurance on sick elderly people you don't know, who you have discovered are about to undergo serious surgery.
4
@Tony Reardon, well done for demonstrating you have no idea how the markets work. Short sellers are an important instrument as they provide the market with capital and highlight potential bubbles - such as Tesla.
2
His claim of "meeting with" plus the Saudi statement of not being interested does not amount to his having secured backing.
He needs to be investigated thoroughly for security fraud.
33
What a move! Tesla being owned by oil. That sounds like a very sustainable strategy. And I was honestly thinking Musk is serious about the environment. He is just after the money.
6
What started as, and is still in the works, a much needed, disruptive innovation in a staid and environmentally damaging automobile industry could all be undone by the ego and hubris of the very person who started it all.
There are many significantly more powerful interests who want Tesla to fail and Musk is doing them a favor through his destructive behavior.
3
Once again this is what happens when Gov. tries to pick corporate "winners and losers". Gov should help develop these NEW technologies -- that is good. Once these technologies start to be applied to commercial projects, the Gov. should get out. I believe the U S Gov has provided $ 4.6 billion to Tesla. I recall the fierce opposition to the GM -Chrysler $$ in 2009.....and the Gov got all it's $$ back with interest from Chrysler. Bet that does not happen at Tesla.
@WAL Loans were repaid in full, with interest, and prior to due date. Google, Bing or Duckduckgo and see for yourself.
6
@Sleepy3rd C'mon - where are you other rational NYT readers in these comments?! Obama GAVE Chrysler to Fiat which assumed debt and maintained supply chain/factory jobs. Pre-'08 GM share/bondholders were sacrificed to bankruptcy. Current calculation for the cost of Middle East conflicts? - over oil supply maintenance! $TTTTTT of YOUR taxes! Musk insisted his desire is to preserve small investor equity, not wipe them out, Revenue to date has been used to develop infrastructure, i.e. Super Charger re-"fueling" stations. Henry For build the gas stations? No, Rockefeller, et al. did. Fuel Benz/Porsche EVs when/where? Please, someone continue this logic!
Human rights be damned! There’s money to be had in the shady Saudi Arabian family of sheikhs! This man Musk has zero scruples. None. He’s so busy doing such foolish things as blasting his own car into space on his personal rocket that he can’t be bothered to pay attention to the horrible reputation he’s garnered. Self centered. Self serving. Self aggrandizing. He’s no better in character than the current president of the United States, but he has the brains that should allow him to know better.
31
@Jonathan Swenekaf Self centered, Self serving, Self aggrandizing.....You also just described Steve Jobs.
6
Wow. I’m so glad we’re not really living in “base reality,” or I’d think that something was incredibly amiss.
4
Musk has already demonstrated he has some unhealthy psychological issues, to put it politely.
As for Tesla, the reality is that the major car companies are in the process of overtaking Tesla in regard to electric vehicles (batteries and vehicle range at least as good, at significantly less cost). Tesla will not be able to achieve their scale, and will likely go the way of the Packard in the next 3-5 years.
By publicly saying he'd take the company private, for the short-term, Musk achieved a big bump in stock price. And, for the long term, if he does take the company private, it'll be so he can have the company decline and be sold off largely out of the public eye, rather than everyone seeing the company's stock price ultimately drop to a fraction of what it is today.
5
@fact or friction
I, currently, can't afford a Tesla and the major manufacturers have nothing yet, that I can see, nearly as interesting . You're right, however, to wonder about his personality. Given his current antics and mindset, unless he 'shapes up", one wonders if he is not going the route of his famous predecessors Howard Hughes and, his namesake, Nikola Tesla.
1
Still another reason to take owning a Tesla off my bucket list.
31
Why even bother with negotiating any agreements, conducting diligence, etc.? It's a done deal.
"I left the July 31st meeting with no question that a deal with the Saudi sovereign fund could be closed, and that it was just a matter of getting the process moving. This is why I referred to “funding secured” in the August 7th announcement."
6
It's fascinating to watch Elon Musk. Basically it is all a big scam. He will be never able to produce his cars for a profit and there is no Tesla for $35000.
The people who know all that, are betting on the Tesla stock.
13
Just because SA has money should not make them able to own a piece of American Technological Innovation; just their absolute disregard for human rights should be a reason to not collaborate with them.
5
Just like the one to poison the well to set up a water station to sell bottles of clean water to thirsty people right next to it. Suddenly driving a Tesla won't look so cool knowing the Saudis are getting rich off building them.
3
This simply doesn't pass the smell test. Please keep digging.
15
If the Saudi will own it I'm not buying it.
28
Musk admits to having a problem with short sellers. Well, he sure did them a big favor when he slandered a British diver after rescuing the Thai kids ($295/share). Good time to jump in that, especially if you knew Musk was then going to Tweet about going private at $420, when it then hopped up to $379. Something smells like a fish market.
30
Is this move going to make America Great Again?
5
Is this guy unhinged? The material he is releasing to the public here has a material effect on Tesla stock, and so on his personal worth. As Tesla is a public company this kind of potentially self-serving announcement is a really no-no.
21
That's right, transfer ownership of American technology to the most odious regime on the planet.
13
Musk's tweets are materially false and misleading, much like his tweets about the British cave diver. Musk's thin skin and inability to deal with critics, in stride, has unhinged him. He sounds like a narcissistic who ruminates over personal criticisms. His obsession with burning the short sellers -- the ultimate critics -- appears to have resulted in the dissemination of false and misleading information. This may finally be his undoing. A true test for Telsa's so-called "independent directors".
14
Hmm. Sounds like someone else as well.
"Funding secured"?????
2
I'm sorry, hello does anyone feel safe with all these billionaires running the show?? Nothing seems real, where is our money safe? This cannot go on in this absolute ridiculous way..really stupid : (
14
“Met with the Saudis” is not “Funding secured”, Elon. Is Donald now your ghost writer?
45
Did Musk got in writing the support of his secured finances from Saudis.Any body can say anything in a regular meeting.I think this man is manipulating the entire financial BUSINESS and hiding all the negatives of Tesla. If the government removes subsidize to Tesla what will be Tesla worth.I guess it will be below 200/share.
1
So after years of being heavily subsidized by the US government, he now thinks he can just sell and go private?
9
He CAN sell and go private...if the stock holders sell..the problem is where does the $$$ come from to buy that outstanding stock?? That is the whole issue.
3
It doesn't appear Musk's plans will get the company below the 2,000 investor disclosure threshold - especially since its 30,000 employees all hold shares as part of their employment package. So what's the upside of taking Saudi blood money if you still need to do the public disclosure. Avoiding quarterly phone calls?
Wonder if the original tweet was just to gin up the price, so his debt holders will convert the company's debt into shares - avoiding the company's eventual credit crunch, at least for now.
1
For Mr. Musk, unfortunately, the truth is not in him. The company is unprofitable, has negative cash flow, and depends on government subsidies. The best he can do is to keep people from noticing the truth, this is just the latest example.
6
Oil-dependent Saudis buying their way into influence with electric-car innovator Tesla. Keeping their friends close, but their enemies closer.
64
Poor Elon Musk. I'm not sure he can be held accountable for some of his weird decisions, but I think a Democratic Congress, along with breaking up all the monopolies we have in this countries, should consider making it impossible for a company, like Tesla, to be sold to any but our closest traditional allies, NOT warlike, deceptive, religionist Saudi Arabia, or anyone like them. They can find some other way to save their economy. Maybe the date business?
57
@ChesBay Oldest traditional allies? Thanks to Donald Trump and his handler, Vladimir Putin, I'm not sure we have any of those.
5
This is just ludicrous. Musk got/gets the money he's throwing around from WE THE PEOPLE through OUR government contracts. Now he thinks he can just turn it over to "private" parties, take the money and run to a "tax friendly" country?
This is how the Robber Barons around the world have stolen OUR wealth and resources. The bleeding in this "bloodless' hostile financial takeover of OUR governments, justice system and regulatory agencies will not end for centuries if WE THE PEOPLE do not stop them by any means possible right now.
76
@njglea I have no personal interest in Tesla, but don't think this is a fair or accurate framing of the situation.
2
@njglea Not sure which government contracts you're referring to (could you, perhaps cite one or two?), but in any case he's not talking about selling the company to the Saudis -- he's saying most current shareholders would keep their shares.
1
@njglea
"take the money and run to a "tax friendly" country?"
He's not the first, nor will he be the last.
Can you spell Apple?
I understand his desire to take this company private. His pubic persona and the media occasionally get things right but also horrifically wrong and it affects his stock on a weekly basis. Elon really is now moving towards being an energy company heavily investing in batteries and solar. He’s been able to build reusable rockets something hopefully nasa can adopt. What’s sad to me is this growing American company may now be funded by SA, a country with terrible human rights records and shady politics. Russia China and SA we need to watch carefully. It’s sad that one of our great companies may now be owned by such a country makes me uncomfortable. I hope this doesn’t happen and another form of funding to take him private happens. My greatest concern is to never have such a great mind under the financial influence of morally ambiguous people. Call me paranoid but this concerns me under our current political climate.
38
Elon’s trouble with the SEC is just beginning. They take a dim view of people who make misleading statements intended to move security prices.
56
@Chris G. There’s no way to prove he intended to move security prices, though. (Unless, of course, there is actual proof of him wanting to move security prices, like a recording on which he says, “Damn, we need to cook up some scheme to lift the stock price.”) Obviously that won’t stop the SEC from taking action, but it does undermine the legitimacy of any action they take. Mind reading shouldn’t be the basis of criminal prosecution.
3
@Chris G.
Are we talking about US Banks and stock brokerage firms during the last meltdown?
Well, one more time Saudi's proved they rely on smart minds around the world and not only petro dollars in the changing world to diversify their investments.
Musk on the other hand is a high risk investor, who simply don't listen to others critique about his electric cars, and that is going to hurt him.
3
It appears as though Mr. Musk not only wants to save his business, but he wants to stick it those who are shorting Tesla.
His business practices remain unseemly. In 1905 would Henry Ford have gotten into airplanes?
Would Thomas Edison have diversified out of lightbulbs. Oh wait he did. That’s GE, General Electric.
3
Ford built the Trimotor in the mid 20s.
4