" It’s true that the company has been running the factory hard — up to 60 hours a week with mandatory overtime, six days in a row — and some absenteeism could be due to sheer exhaustion, Mr. Roell allowed. But “bad blood,” as he put it, is at least as much to blame."
Ahem, don't you think 60 hours a week mandatory work that's physically demanding could be the MAJOR cause of this absenteeism? It's like NYT reporters don't really understand these types of jobs or people (you think?) Why not delve into why this OT is required by Carrier Management and what they are trying to accomplish instead of tilting the story towards "workers who call in sick because they're disgruntled", which is definitely what you did. This kind of reporting is what enables NYT readers to get all righteous and tell these workers they shouldn't have voted for Trump. Dig a little deeper NYT!
9
The politicians, the 1%, and corporate leadership apparently don't get it. When will they realize that their stinginess doing great harm? Why don't they care that they are causing so much suffering?
1
Maybe I missed it, but WHY aren't people showing up for work? Because they're not happy at work? They don't trust Carrier?
Do they get their paychecks when they show up? Isn't that the purpose of showing up and accomplishing something for the company in exchange for decent pay?
What's the point of this story?
1
Nobody should be surprised that Trump & his staunch supporters are experts at playing victim and will always find someone else to blame. China and Chinese workers did not steal American jobs. It's the workers like those at Carrier who don't bother to show up for work that killed American jobs. That and the robots installed by Congress financed automation programs.
4
I worked in a white collar job for 32 years that required a college education. We didn't make the wages that these people are making. In the past 3 years 20% of the workforce was laid off. I was one of the thousands that received no warning. As I was told "This is an 'at will' hire and fire company and your job has been eliminated. Turn in your company computer and be out of the building by the end of the day." And people wonder why American workers are so cynical.
9
Call these workers who believed or believe in trump... Carrier "Pigeons" who fell for Don's con.
Tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts that's what the GOParty over Country cares about and stands for. That and retaining power (or gaining) no matter how they have to do it. Gerrymandering, endless lying, fake "investigations" into voter fraud to justify further voter suppression allowing or even encouraging Russian hacking ("find Hillary's emails" trump said). And amazingly there are millions of idiots still 'buying' their rotten fruit.
Trump cares about the average worker like a cat cares about a pigeon...
Trump's kkkampaign rallies are a disgrace. This crook needs to go ASAP and hopefully Pence will follow him out the door. Tweet tweet.
3
I wonder how many times a week they have to close a line in Mexico? Abuse of leave time excessive absenteeism, certainty that they’re going to get screwed, seems like they’re speeding up the move to Mexico as fast as possible.
i am not going to show up for work because the plane will close . Interesting. Do not show up for work. Production will be reduced, items will not be shipped, sale swill be reduced , profits will be reduced and the plant will have to close .
On day that they are not showing up, maybe they are at the White House trying to fill in for all of Trump's staff that quits or gets fired.
1
A well written piece that gives rise to two important conclusions:
1. That "the deal" in the American workplace has fundamentally changed, from a relational to a much more transactional construct. Gaping holes have opened in the paternalistic safety net that once existed, leaving workers (unionized or not) to fend for themselves. The workplace is but one more place where, owing to a fracturing of trust, we are falling out of love with the institutions in our lives, e.g., marriage, government, church...
2. It underscores the importance of strong, capable, caring leadership to the task of building and maintaining a focused, fired up, productive workforce.
3
I don't understand why these Carrier workers aren't socking away as much money as possible, even it that is a few pennies per paycheck. This is known as responsible living. None of us knows what could happen in the future, but it's a safe bet that corporations will always do what makes the most profit for shareholders. Anyone can be laid off. Now is the time to "go to college or trade school" - the best, most adult idea quoted here. Learn new skills, prepare for automation and hope for the best. That's the world we live in in the 21st Century. And, why don't these folks pack up and move to places with jobs (i.e., West Texas oil fields)? We are supposedly a mobile society, but most reports of distressed areas quote individuals who have lived or worked in the same location for decades, waiting for an employment miracle. Yes, it is difficult to leave what you know best and people do become depressed/inert, but immigrants from other countries are willing to leave behind everything they have ever known to earn a living. What happened to our pioneering, risk-taking ethos? I'm a liberal Dem, but have a hard time understanding this inability to make potentially beneficial life changes.
7
I'm from Indiana and went through the USA automaker crisis in my area.
Anyway you look at it, these folks are doomed. They could faithfully work their 48 hour work weeks with cheery attitudes and zero absenteeism, and whether its through re-location or automation, Carrier will dump them.
4
I have had jobs - including physically demanding and tedious - where my direct manager was as demeaning and soul-draining as they come, her bosses indifferently evil (and evilly indifferent), and colleagues whose work ethic was as sub-par as the ones in this story.
I worked hard because of who I am and not because what the company was like. And because, in accepting their wages, I had a responsibility to do the work: nobody forced me to take the job.
Therefore, I have no sympathy for the whining and the “what the company owes me” attitude and I am particularly disgusted by the ones NOT showing up for work, thereby impacting the daily lives of those who have to cover for them AND jeopardizing ALL the jobs.
Solution? You can train for tasks and jobs: you can’t train motivation. Farmers and fruit growers have already discovered that “Brown” (vs. White) workers aren’t “taking” jobs from Americans. They are EAGERLY doing the jobs that Americans don’t want to do... because IMMIGRANTS don’t feel entitled: they are grateful and they are hungry and they are appreciative of the opportunities here. Hire them, train them.
The folks at Carrier who aren’t showing up should look in the mirror and either quit or go to work. They are making the closing a self-fulfilling prophecy.
8
Six days a week with mandatory overtime at a physically demanding job... Try that month after month and see what your absenteeism rate is.
7
.. Carrier is part of United Technologies a $60 billion, multi-national conglomerate.. Big companies like this care more about their stock price than workers on the factory floor..
Nevertheless, having a job is better than sitting home watching Judge Judy everyday.. Factory work ain't easy, but it makes no sense to blame your employer for your own bad morale.
--- People are given years of education to try and help them make a decent life for themselves, but a lot of people never put much effort in... and when they hit 18 & out of school.. they feel stuck.
That's a bitter pill to have to swallow for some people.
But Jacque Williams in this article has the right attitude..At 56 he's going back to school to learn a new skill. And that's the only way to keep morale up, gotta keep going and trying..
4
Can't feel too sympathetic towards the Carrier workers, since they were willing to believe Donald's lies! They were played! That's Donald's M.O.!
2
Sounds like bad management. Lay off half your workers, work the rest 60 hours per week (which with OT costs about the same as 2 forty hour weeks), and then have 20% absentee rate which makes the 80%who are left way more inefficient. DUH. What school did these guys go to!!
7
"It’s true that the company has been running the factory hard — up to 60 hours a week with mandatory overtime, six days in a row — and some absenteeism could be due to sheer exhaustion, Mr. Roell allowed."
One sentence (one sentence!) identifying what could be a significant contributor to the problem the article works so hard to identify. WHY running so hard? WHY mandatory overtime? 60 hours a week? 6 days a week? Sheer exhaustion, yes! As well as family care and concerns, self care and concerns. Please stop framing everything as the fault of Mr. Trump. Carrier can, and must, work with its employees and the union to articulate its needs and address absenteeism and morale. Together these groups can create a positive work environment that meets all needs. They just have to want to. My reading of the article is that Carrier doesn't want to.
7
The question not addressed in the article is the low attendance rate. Low morale isn't that convincing: you can't get paid if you don't show up for an hourly job. And of course a low attendance rate is likely to get one fired with poor references.
Does it have to do with the opioid crisis, or other drug use in the community?
Is it a symptom of American laziness and entitlement that one doesn't see in countries like Japan or Germany? Americans claim to be so hard-working--are we really?
More questions need to be asked about the poor attendance, such as:
--do other industries nearby experience the same rate?
-what about the country as a whole?
--Are there other factors, such as lack of health care or poor overall health in Indiana such as obesity/diabetes, etc?
Frankly, I'm not sure why anyone at this point in the country's history, especially in legacy industries, would expect their jobs or even their industry to survive in the long term, or to have the interest of the workers at heart. To do so is to bury one's head in the sand, or to believe in a reality that is long dead.
4
@Scott Cole Yes, floating around the edges of this story I sense an underlying story about our lack of health care. A lot of those absences to take care of sick family members are probably legit, and they have a rolling effect on morale.
4
Interesting how the so-great Trump tax cut has not turned into increased wages for the workers of the world.
8
Unfortunately, these line workers and the taxpayers have been played.
Under the guise of "saving" half of the jobs at this plant, the taxpayer had millions of dollars removed from their pockets and transferred to United Technologies, who will use those dollars to increase automation at that plant, to further decrease the head count.
9
Human beings need useful things to do. Unfortunately the US economy is structured to make money for the few - not to employ the many.
All manner human skills and abilities are brought to bear upon infrastructure projects. These employ the benefit the many but do not necessarily enrich the few.
The US needs its infrastructure refurbished and made fit for purpose. We the people need to be taken care of. We the people demand good schools, roads, hospitals, and all the rest of the infrastructure that serves we the people. Getting rich and powerful is not a good ambition. Having an a useful occupation among your peers is much better.
7
Factories and businesses"doing more with less" and chasing larger profit margins is just a fact of life now. I am a salary design engineer, and I have seen the companies I work for trim down their engineering staffs over time. The same development and design work is required, it just needs to be accomplished with fewer people now. Companies are demanding increased efficiency at all levels, not just from hourly factory workers.
The pendulum is heavily on the side of corporate profits now and much less on the side of worker quality of life and worker compensation. This is the new normal, let's all accept it and work as hard as we can to adapt.
4
@Ben "The pendulum is heavily on the side of corporate profits now and much less on the side of worker quality of life and worker compensation. This is the new normal, let's all accept it and work as hard as we can to adapt. "
WHY?!!! Why accept it? You are not powerless - if you join with other workers and others not of the "1%" (or much of the top 10%). Take back the power given to us as citizens of the United States. Vote out those that do the bidding of the greedy "1%" and vote in people that will look out for all. This is the only way that the country will "become GREAT again"!
5
There are few secure jobs anymore. Carrier is an example of the existential dread all workers live in today. In Wisconsin you they have the right to work act, which basically says you can be let go at anytime for anything. What I see is that workers hold back and don't go into debt for extras like a camper and don't bother saving for retirement because they feel they cant retire anyway. There are inadequate retirement programs now and little benefits. Work is just a temporary paycheck. When about 20 years ago work could mean a good retirement. And with Carrier it sounds like they all know the company will move to Mexico anyway. In Mexico for half the wages and even fewer benefits they will have a more stable work force. In poor economies people are more motivated to work as there are few good paying jobs. It's not that Americans are lazy or poor workers its that Americans have other choices. One solution would be a national retirement program rather than done business by business. We are going to see a lot of senior citizen poverty with this baby boom generation having little retirement savings. I am already seeing it in my community. Its not just about Carrier low morale. This is about how work does not lead to a middle class lifestyle anymore. job insecurity and limited benefits. Unfortunately I see the next generation going towards temp jobs, essentially everybody is going to become working poor and privatization profiting the few wealthy owners.
12
These folks need to know that assembly line kind of jobs are going away - not just in America but worldwide.
They didn't believe in it when President Obama. And when the snake oil salesman came along and told them they could retain their standard of living doing the same thing, including slacking off, like before, they were too eager to believe.
This is not new. Back 30 years ago, American autos were writing off Japanese invasion by not allowing foreign cars parked at its cities. Thugs killed a Chinese American they confused as Japanese. But who wanted to buy American when the products were poorly designed and worse assembled. Then the 1st generation robots began to appear. Instead of getting the message, they used the union muscle to stay afloat, until the near death experience in 2008.
These folks are dooming themselves. And when well-meaning people like President Obama came along to tell them the truth, they turned against them too, because honey words are so much better to hear.
21
If I thought my job was going away, I would show up every day and work every shift and sock as much away as possible for as long as I could- because I know the next job will pay less
I am a survivor and I don’t understand these carrier workers.
17
Rote work is mind numbing, physically exhausting and soul destroying. Except for robots. Which is why, ultimately, robots will do these jobs (either here, or in Mexico, or in Timbuctoo - wherever the cost of robots, materials and electricity is cheapest). Prepare.
8
@Unconvinced
It's called depression...when they feel they have no control, why do anything, even go into work.
I was like that with my first job and I was only supporting myself. In the late 1960s I was an RN on a nursing unit that had the difficult patients and no staff. Depressed and hating my work. But I have no solution for these people. I moved on to a different nursing job with less money.
6
One could argue that Carrier is simply squeezing as much money out of its Indiana factory as possible for their profits.
But if the hours were cut back and the company put it in writing that they'd keep the plant open for 25 more years, would American consumers pay the higher price for their product or, as we Americans have done over and over again, go to the cheapest price, no matter who makes it?
Let's accept the fact that shopping for cheap labor is in our DNA America. And we pay dearly for it.
11
Democrats make workers prosperous. The newly-prosperous workers start thinking like Republicans and vote for the GOP. The Republicans eventually turn the workers into Democrats again.
Rinse and repeat.
25
the issue here is carrier leadership...that the turpitude was given space to grow and not contradicted by top management, on deck and active in dispelling the toxic vapors of discontent, and, if need be, firing those not amenable to the effort required to do their jobs, suggests the need for a top turnaround executive who can remake the slacker culture which is, after all, not just a crack in the plaster but rather a black hole that will consume energies and resources until there are none left.
2
I voted for HRC, but I wonder how things would be if she had won, or if DJT had not made the deal that kept the factory open. Surely keeping half the jobs, even temporarily, as bad as they are, is better than losing all of the jobs. Let’s remember, the plan to close the factory came after years of BHO in office. So what do the Democrats have to offer for these workers? Better health care, but it seems that is about it. Both parties have been ignoring the needs of working people for decades.
6
60 hours a week and 6 days in a row? That's an entire new shift, the shift that Carrier "had" to lay off at the get-go. Why don't they hire another shift instead of treating their workers like robots?
Of course people are calling out. They are working 10 hour days doing the same activity over and over again. Humans can't physically do that, they end up pulling apart their tendons and breaking bones doing that.
Is Carrier trying to save money on benefits by not hiring a third shift? Are they trying to run their workforce into the ground so that they can use absenteeism as an excuse to close the factory later? What's the deal here?
Because not being able to manufacture your product isn't good business, so this isn't good business.
24
No, they too know that this plant as currently staffed has no real competitive future in the world market.
This current excessive overtime is to just get them over the time-lag of increased automation as AI controlled assembly is perfected and installed.
Why waste money training new hires when their jobs will be automated out of existence in anther 12-36 months anyway ?
5
There are lots of reasons for absenteeism, such as bullying.
But in this case, the one thing not mentioned by anyone is Survivor Guilt Syndrome, although it's alluded to in 'missing my colleagues'.
Both those kept on & those sacked ask 'why me?', and 'will I survive the next cull here or elsewhere?'
Speaking as one who endured more than one, each downsizing loosens the bond between workers and not just the company, but society as a whole.
These people are exhibiting grief, shock, abandonment, depression so that the sick leave they're taking, while appropriate, is failing to provide the support they need.
That's something the union could address.
10
What I do not grasp is no matter how terrible factory jobs are, people still glamorize them as "middle class."
10
@Pecos 45 Factory work is middle class because middle class is an economic descriptor, not a social class descriptor. Sounds like Carrier's furnace factory is moving to a lower class of pay, though.
Sad to see a union destroying jobs in a bid to attack the president. Politics are important, but pushing the plant overseas doesn't help anyone except corrupt union bosses.
1
@John Nothing to do with union coverage. Anybody who has to work twelve hours six days a week on an assembly line gets exhausted within three months
26
@Chris Mann I agree. I think he missed something.
The reason people don't work routinely on Saturdays, that child labor is not allowed, that a 40 hour work week for coal miners and factory workers came about. Labor unions. Since Reagan the American working class has been in decline.
31
There's a lot of blaming in the comments . . . but also a lot of confusion about whom to blame. Like most well-educated liberals, I'm frustrated at white blue-collar workers who, since Reagan, have steadily moved toward the Republican party and who seem fanatical about Trump. Yes, I see the point: they sort of deserve what they get. The xenophobia (and outright racism) in some of their opinions, the blaming of minorities and immigrants for their unhappy plight in life, also doesn't evoke any sympathy.
But on the other hand, they are suffering from the disaster the American workplace has become. Working 60 hour weeks to make $50,000 a year? Having no financial security, no social safety net to catch you if you fall (and you're falling all the time at these wages)? Seeing communities and families come apart and not be there to lend a hand when you need it most? Being completely dependent on an income that is tenuous and unreliable and is controlled by distant managers and investors who don't know you, don't care about you, and will cut your job without a second thought if it increases profits, stock prices, or their own income and bonuses?
This is what America has become. A place where most average people have no financial security, where incomes are always at risk, and where the loss of a job can mean a life ruined.
That's really not a life anyone wants to live. Blame might be cathartic. But really what we need is an economy that doesn't leave so many so vulnerable.
48
@617to416
Really well stated. Thank you.
8
@617to416: The wealth of the middle class began to decline in 1973. But that shouldn't stand in the way of a good polemic.
For years the Democratic Party pumped up the organized labor wing by saying things like "they are the people who built this country". Remember bumper stickers like "Buy American!" and "Out of a job yet? Keep buying foreign."
The Democratic Party loved 'em - for a while.
Now those same laborers are labelled as xenophobic, regressive, racist and deplorable.
Here's a hint, have the Democratic Party stick to New Deal approaches. The identity politics of the Democratic Party has labelled all white folks with the false narrative of privileged beneficiaries of real estate wealth built up over generation.
I grew up in Detroit. And while most progressives and white liberals moved on to areas far from our near east side neighborhood (Bernie, sound familiar) my family, friends and I continued living in Detroit and learned how to be Republicans - all based on our experiences.
1
@617to416 " A place where most average people have no financial security, where incomes are always at risk, and where the loss of a job can mean a life ruined. "
A tad melodramatic. It's always been like this - your age is showing.
2
I'll bet some recent immigrants from Central America wouldn't miss work!
23
Interesting that none of Donald's nor Ivanka's products have ever been made in the US! Yet he chastises others for doing what he does. Can't understand why his supporters don't recognize his hypocrisy. As others have stated, he cares only for himself. I feel sorry for these people who feel abandoned by the greed of their executives.
29
Even the "Bikers for Trump" are selling t-shirts made overseas.
1
I am confused. Some of the workers feel bored, or not loved by the company. To show their work ethic, they do not come to work. How in the world did we get to this point?
As a teacher I have a college degree. To help pay for my education my father worked two jobs, my mother one. I am one of the first teachers to be nationally certified and yet I made a very medium wage. I not only put in time at school, I worked evenings and weekends at home preparing for interesting, relevant educational experiences for all my students (no matter what was their ability). I marked papers after my family went to bed. I never did not come to work unless I was seriously ill. All because I cared.
I did not blame others, I knew it was my responsibility to hone my skills, and not bemoan that my field was changing. I kept up with changes occurring in my profession. I tried to be a role model for my students and my own children that it is each person's responsibility to embrace and adapt to change. So should those who work at Carrier or any other place of employment. It may mean a move to another location. It may mean acquiring new skills. Hopefully, those at Carrier may stop blaming the company and instead look at what they need to do to meet the needs of the changing workplace.
16
@Teacher No, the workers need to find a decent job, not show up for 60-hour weeks as their health fades away. One day you're called in and handed your final paycheck. Carrier should be more forthright, admit that all jobs will eventually be gone and offer, with the help of the city and/or country, some job training. Pence had a duty of demanding this as part of the deal, but he failed.
18
So big deal. They've been had by trump just as the whole country and world has been. What did they expect? He has been a liar, a crook, business failure with how many bankruptcies? He has always been out for only one person - himself.
Maybe these folks will be more sensible, do their homework, and not be driven by personal greed next time it comes time to vote. Republicans have a track record of NOT ever caring for the little guy. Whatever made you think that changed?
18
When I joined Boeing, I worked as a software and test engineer on the B-1B nuclear bomber. Overtime was required to stay on schedule. It was mentally tasking but not physical. No one complained. After 22 years in the Air Force, it was nice to get paid for overtime. In the Military, you are on duty 24/7, or at least available.
4
Mr. Roell, sir you are spot on telling your kids to seek college or vocational school. Mechanics is more of an integral piece of something everyone needs~a good mechanic~that is not being promoted as much. I am proud to say I am a mechanic, as well as a journeyman electrician, my brothers, father, FIL, have mechanical skills as well. Many like you and those of the era of the assembly line jobs have skills that can cross over. Some of us work well with our hands.
Sorry to hear about these people. I hope those that can will get some kind of training to get to a retirement they deserve.
8
@HJ
It would be very naive at this point to think that anyone will get a "retirement they deserve." The retirement system for most Americans was mostly dismantled years ago. If people want a comfortable retirement, they have only two options:
1. inherit
2. vastly cut down on consumerism or any kind of luxury in daily life, and save about half of your income.
1
While the authors give much space to the issue of employee absenteeism, one glaring omission is the lack of any exploration of the reasons workers are missing work. Only one small paragraph makes mention of the fact that employees are required to put in 60 hr workweeks with mandatory overtime. While Family Leave is hinted at, this begs the question of whether these working conditions have led to a rise in worker injuries or indirectly impacted workers’ health. While the management throws the better attendance rates of their Mexican factories in the faces of the employees who do show up, there is no mention of the working conditions in those plants, and whether they have better staffing than in the Indiana plant. Reading between the lines, I would conclude that Carrier is deliberately understaffing the Indiana plant, setting it and their workers up to fail as an excuse to close and move all operations to Mexico. No wonder the morale is low.
27
@Amy Raffensperger Spot on!
7
@Amy Raffensperger Let's wave our hands and pretend that this isn't a union organized slowdown.
2
@John - Why blame it on the union when clearly those who own Carrier (the stockholders, etc.) are the ones who actually gain financially from the factory's eventual move. Exactly what would the union/workers gain from an organized slowdown?
1
That's why the Chinese are eating our lunch, walking all over us, leaving us in the dust. Sad.
4
Once again the people at the bottom are taking it on the chin courtesy of Trump and the Republican party. You want a decent paying job? Work 60 hours a week and stop complaining. You should have had your parents hoist you up by your bootstraps, like us.
19
The Carrier employees love Trump's guarantees for their job.......but they also like buying their own things from shops in Mexico and China.
5
The problem is the unfettered greed of crony capitalism, and its continued, unabated support by these low education voters who continually vote against their own interest but are too proud of their way of life to listen to reason or bother educating themselves, because Jesus will save them all.
Hallelujah! He is risen!
22
I don’t understand what’s the story here. Carrier claims everything is fine, even though 1 in 5 workers are not showing up. So what? Why is that worthy of reporting? The writer dies not make this clear. If the company were losing money and the taxpayer was paying for it, that might be news, though it’s not a unique situation.
It seems the NYT is digging for a scandal where it doesn’t exist. Aren’t there enough other companies or friends of the administration receiving bigger subsidies from the government, and wasting or stealing them, that you could be spotlighting? I will rethink my subscription.
4
So how. Is this Trump’s fault? Lazy people that afterwards complain that jobs go south of the border.
3
Workers in Indiana don't show up for their jobs, and the Times blames Trump? Now that's what I call good old fashioned New York chutzpah.
6
@Ed L.
Clearly, you didn't read the article and when it comes to Trump's "alleged" promises, it seems you have a short memory. The extra investment promised by the company is for automation only, NOT, new jobs and the 700 jobs saved(for the time being)were provided at the expense of $7 MILLION in taxpayer (corporate welfare) dollars to Carrier. it would seem the employees think that the jobs saved from this handout are at best, temporary, hence, low morale.
In the Presidential primary, Trump boasted and threatened Carrier that if ANY jobs were shipped to Mexico, he would hit them with a 35% tariff on equipment sold back in to the U.S.
His promises, like everything else he says, are worthless.
27
Where in this article did the Times blame Trump? (hint: The answer is "In your imagination").
The author is just reporting about the aftermath for a company that was in the spotlight for 15 minutes and was then largely forgotten about by the politicians and the media.
27
Find another job! This article is a joke. If these employees are disgruntled, I hope the author said find a different job. In Indiana, we are a low tax state so there is very low unemployment. Opportunity is there if you show up for work. Some of these quotes must be from people living in fantasyland.
4
I have more empathy for these people than Trump ever will. I have owned carrier and Bryant furnaces many times, my next Hvac will be Mexican made.
4
I wonder how many Carrier workers will vote Republican in 2020, my guess would be the majority.
16
Nice piece, thanks.
2
and the american people complain about non-americans coming in to take thier jobs. sad,
3
Blame the leadership and management of Carrier.
“The Bible says an honest day’s work for an honest day’s pay, and I try to live by that.”
Nonsense! The parable clearly states that the worker hired from 4:55pm to 5 pm can get exactly the same as the 8:30am-5pm worker. Seems like lots of Carrier stooges realize this and want a real life instead of these pathetic slave wages.
4
The morale is worse for the people who worked in the coal mining industry. Obama tossed them into the garbage without a thought for them and their children.
2
@Shamrock: No, it was deliberate revenge, not "without a thought"
@John
People who care about their children would be wise to exit the coal mining industry.
And stop blaming Obama: a big coal corporation was just accused of falsifying its hazardous gas warning system. The coal companies have treated their workers dismally. Maybe drive through Appalachia and see how great coal mining has been for people. Those towns have been poor for decades.
I'm not sure why anyone would aspire to work in a coal mine.
The article makes it sound like these well paid carrier workers got to keep their jobs that they didn't want in the first place. Next, they will say Trump should build a wall so the people who do want those jobs can't have them. They want to go to the prom but they haven't learned how to dance yet.
2
Let's get some recent immigrants in there. You'll see real dedicated workers. That's what running from war torn Sudan or Syria does to you.
That what it did for my family escaping for war torn Middle East in the start of the 20th century. It's called motivation.
McDonalds is always hiring for these locals.
15
The experiences of those Carrier workers is a lot like what I see in rural NYS. "Good" factory jobs are longer hours for lower pay than they used to be. Often they lack job security, decent health insurance, or a pension plan. The effects of this insecurity are insidious.
The reasons for absenteeism deserve more attention, I think. We shouldn't dismiss "sick leave" as an excuse. And we certainly shouldn't overlook the reasons people need to miss work for illness.
Blue collar people live with worse health than they used to. More are obese, chronically ill, divorced, disabled, incarcerated, or struggling with addiction. And all these conditions feed one another in a vicious cycle.
When everyone is struggling, a sick worker is less likely to have people around who can help. They can't afford to see a doctor before an illness gets worse. They can't afford medicine, or even healthy food. If a child gets sick, they can't afford childcare. An aging parent with no pension has to move in. Single parents have no one to help with child and elder care. Friends and family who might have pitched in are addicted or in jail.
The stress leads to more illness. Poverty and worry increases risk for everything from back pain or the flu, to cancer and heart attacks. The more workers out sick, the more pressure on the ones well enough to come in. The more stress at work, the more workers get sick.
This is what happens when a nation doesn't take care of its people.
219
@APC
Yes, and this is what happens when Republicans continue their war against labor unions.
The U.S. prospered in the 50's, 60's and 70's because of strong unions -- and also corporations that acknowledged their debt to a strong community supplying skilled labor and paying at least some of the taxes that, with the aid of Congressional accomplices, they now have managed to escape -- passing that burden on to the middle class and some in poverty.
22
American factories require overtime work of up to 60 hours per week with few or no benefits while European workers work 35 to 40 hours and are paid way better. And they get four weeks of vacation. So how is it that we are such a great country? And quality of product goes way down when worked tire and accidents go up. In the meantime, it was reported today that while average wages rose 2.7 % this year, inflation has already reached 2.9 % so workers are going backwards!
376
@Julie Carter The top 0.1% are raking in all the rewards - and the GOP wants them to have more. And look who votes Republican! It really is a sad spectacle.
1
@Julie Carter
And Trump is making things worse by rolling back Obama regs on paying for overtime.
1
@Julie Carter The average net monthly income in western europe is € 2000 (GB) to € 3200 (DK) they work yearly 1680 (GB) to 1400 (DK) hours. So there income is much less, and overtime is not usual. But the social securities (not easy to get fired, reasonable health insurance (about €100 a month), and unemployment and sickness pay) are standard. Btw Denmark (and Norway) are rich countries, which is reflected in the wages.
Heaven forbid that Carrier would hire more people, so that 60 hour workweeks with forced overtime weren't the norm and maybe there could be some buffer in the workforce so one or two absences from legitimate illness or vacation didn't make everything grind to a halt. As long as management thinks of labor as disposable, there will be problems with morale.
699
@Steve
Management does not hire more people because it will have to pay for health insurance and other benefits. If we had single payer, companies like Carrier would be on a level playing field with European companies, and hire more people.
726
@Steve-Sadly, the only way Carrier factory workers (most of whom are parents) can make a livable wage to support their families is to work overtime to keep a toe-hold in the middle class.
31
@VCS Maybe. But remember the insatiable greed of capitalists.
"I don’t know if we will ever be sure again or have a positive attitude towards the company" Oh boo hoo.
That is business. You can't be sure what is next. But that Union quote is an attitude for disaster. You're not owed anything. So work while you can and make what you can while looking for something better. This might be the best there will be for you so don't turn your back on it.
11
Sounds like the same problem we have at UPS. Very well paid (I live off a part time job) union wages and bennies. But no one wants to come to work. Fortunately, it’s the easiest way to get fired but seriously why even apply if you don’t want the job.
11
Sounds like people feel pretty entitled there. But, the working conditions per overtime are not right.
I have employed people from the US and several other countries over the years. We basically gave up on US employees due to their entitlement attitude. It didn't really matter how much they were paid, they wanted something more out of life than working for a living.
And it wasn't the attitude that was the main problem, it was getting the work done in a timely and quality manner.
I'm talking about software development, but consider people coming to work on farms from south of the boarder. They work hard and want the job. Citizens don't want these jobs, I guess because they think that they are too good for that kind of work. Welfare and disability benefits are better.
I don't like Trump, but he is the symptom of the problem in our country and the western world.
5
"“The Bible says an honest day’s work for an honest day’s pay," No it doesn't. The Bible says a lot of things, but this isn't one of them. What is it with Conservatives who need to invent "bible verses" to justify whatever it is they choose to believe?
26
@Brian Dzyak
Because they haven't read it.
In fact it says if you contract to pay your workers a certain amount, you must pay them what is owned, even if you make a loss.
It says you should pay your workers at the end of each day (OK - not practical today) & let them leave early enough to buy & prepare food for dinner (no fridges). But the meaning is clear.
It says to not clear your fields too closely to leave gleanings for the poor.
There's lots in the Bible about employee/employer relations but some of it is considered 'socialist'.
5
I’m not really sure I understand the point of this story. Basically you have a bunch of people who are making plenty of money and aren’t showing up for work because they think that when Trump leaves office. They’re going to move the plant to Mexico. Therefore, the best way to express their unfounded fears is to boycott the place that’s paying them plenty of money to work. This same group of people have decided that their happiness hinges on what more their employer can do for them. I’ve always thought that happiness comes from within and even people living in the poorest countries can be happy if they’re secure.
I suspect that the real reason people aren’t showing up for work is that they know that the labor market is so tight that they can’t be replaced...Sometimes problems have simpler solutions and answers than we choose to accept because there are some that thrive in the problem and not the solution
12
@Tom "...even people living in the poorest countries can be happy if they’re secure."
These workers do not feel secure in their employment, and the terms of the employment include many hours of forced overtime--which is most likely the real reason they aren't showing up for some shifts
4
I work as a manufacturing supervisor at an Automotive company, one runt above the"group leader" position. The issues described in the article are identical to what we experience every day. FMLA, Absenteeism, and unmotivated workforce, despite record economic conditions.
FMLA is a federal program, and companies can not deny employees when they apply for it. The requirement are a signature from a physician and half a page of paperwork. (ALTHOUGH, People on FMLA do not get paid for missing work). I have an employee with a recent kidney transplant with FMLA and shows up 99 out of 100 days. Another with "hand cramps" who take 2 days off a week like clockwork. 5% to 10% absenteeism on Monday and Friday is to be expected. Reduce output and shut down none critical operation and move people, and that does "wonders" for morale.
Understand these jobs are no one's dream job, and they are physically exhausting in THE literal sense. Is American work ethic a myth? It depends on what sect of individualism they subscribe to. Those who go out of their way to not do a single min of work are not in the majority, but significant enough to drag everyone down.
Higher wages and giving control of firing decisions to management (One truth still hold today as 30 years ago, it is still impossible to fire a bad worker from a Union job.) would help a long way to rebalance this current reality. But with automation (And the boogie man is already here) does it even matter.
22
These Carrier workers voted their own interests after hearing what they wanted to hear. They didn't care about the fine print on the deal, or that taxpayers were going to be subsidizing this political ad moment that benefited Trump and the owners more than it benefited them. I recall interviews with the union boss, where he warned that this deal was not what people thought. These people thought like grasshoppers, instead of ants, and now they're paying the price. The only long-term thing they accomplished is accelerating the inevitable switch to automation. They should be smart, and bank as much money as they can, because jobs like theirs will not be returning.
11
20% absenteeism is like every single person in the company not showing up for work one day every week. If any of the rest of us did that, we’d get fired.
Should Carrier be a good corporate citizen and hire some more people? Of course. But that’s not the world we live in now. I would assume 80% or more of these people voted for Trump, the GOP, and all of the inhuman policies that give to the rich and take from everyone else. You reap what you sow.
11
' It’s true that the company has been running the factory hard — up to 60 hours a week with mandatory overtime, six days in a row — and some absenteeism could be due to sheer exhaustion, Mr. Roell allowed.'
Workers' rights? Right.
11
I work for a manufacturing company. When you increase Saturdays to get more production, it backfires. People get burnt out and absenteeism goes up.
26
They stood front and center in getting Trump elected, despite all of the evidence that he was a grifter, using them to advance his own prospects. They are just reaping what they sowed. Good.
15
@Clayton So, 'they are reaping what they sowed?' They have a good paying job. Period. Trump is a 'grifter?' Boy, you should get a job and I think I know where you can find one (hint-Indiana).
1
Not showing up for work because I might lose it in the future anyway? Just how smart is that?
A smart way would be quite the opposite: show up every day AND try to get aso much overtime as possible to salt some money away if I think my job is not secure.
As it is, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy: why would management want to keep those jobs in the US if those expensive workers are grumbling, not showing up etc? Let's move the factory overseas where not only labor is cheaper, but their work ethic is better as well.
This just shows how a large segment of US blue collar labor force is simply way too entitled.
15
@Vlad. The jobs they described involved repetitive motions, the body needs to take a break. Your comment does not recognize that they had been working 50 to 60 hours a week. Those aren't "desk jobs." Maybe you should try it.
Many of those people have other long term commitments where family members and other people expect and depend on them to show up.
It's easiest on businesses and all employees if sales volume is relatively constant high enough but stable.
6
The person, which is a stretch, who bamboozled the workers at Carrier was taken by the North Koreans and owned by the Russians. Great negotiator, my foot. On cue Bolton starts to carry 45's water while gearing up for regime in Iran. The entire administration in the most incompetent in our history.
13
6 days a week, 10 hours a day. Yet, close to half of the employees were laid off. I'd be demoralized, too. As a software engineer, I've had my share of 7-day weeks, weeks at a time, but there was always a light at the end the tunnel.
I wish there was more emphasis on the trades. I was talking to an electrical contractor, and he can't find good electricians. He said the average age is 50 and kids aren't interested.
21
Step 1: fire employees based on seniority, so you end up with an older workforce.
Step 2: Increase hours you expect this workforce to work because you just fired a bunch of people.
What could go wrong?
19
What is “required overtime”?
4
The commentariat is showing a particularly self righteousness streak this morning...saying things like “they should be glad to have a job”, the daughter will just have to lower her career aspirations, these workers are just “lazy,” that somehow it’s their fault that Carrier is getting ready to ditch their long time employees for robots and overseas manufacturing plants. It’s depressing to see the lack of empathy. It’s even more troubling that Carrier employees are being used as a political football by 45 and his corporatist buddies. Those are the guys laughing all the way to the bank while workers, aka slaves, make a “good” wage of $15 hr. (who are we kidding here) all the while wondering if they’ll have a job the next day. Anyone who thinks the American worker is important to the privileged class is sadly mistaken, they’ll smile and stab you in the back every time.
21
Why didn’t they just distribute the tax break to Carrier directly to the employees? That would have been better for morale.
15
Not sure this is any different than what many other large companies have gone through in years past, or continue to experience today.
Yes, we can blame it on Trump, but when I worked at AT&T in the mid-80's we experienced the same thing. Low morale, not sure when the next "right-sizing" would take place, transfers, etc. Some people can deal with it, and some can't. I feel like I avoided the ax on more than one occasion, but I never blamed the President.
4
@Conrad
And the President never tried to claim credit either. Trump plays with a two-edged sword.
14
I’d be willing to bet that Amazon workers trade places with Carrier workers any day.
10
This is the ideology the GOP support with the right to work state. Your employer can abuse women on the job , fire you for any reason and they don't care if you have a family and mortgage to take care. The unions help keep these corrupt business CEO's to provide a safe work environment. These jobs will eventually be going to Mexico where they are payed 2.00 the whole day and no health benefits. When you sell your soul to Trump and the GOP this is what you reap. Chaos everyday.
13
You love that this factory is failing. You’re rooting for failure.
2
Robotics and artificial intelligence will expand exponentially in the near future and I see a future combining elements of “Soylent Green” and “BladeRunner”. Th future would be challenging even with a government of honest genius.
7
Chronic absenteeism, tardiness, poor morale, bad attitudes...Perhaps the author is overstating this but ask yourself if you would hire someone with these characteristics.
4
My heart goes out to these people, but unfortunately, you put your faith in a lying, cheating person, and now he's your president. If you think he saved you, he didn't. Carrier and every other manufacturer in this country, only care about one thing _PROFIT_ if they can get cheaper labor outside of the country or another state, then they will do it. The ONLY people that will benefit are the executives. Trust me on this. They only care for themselves and the so called "shareholders"! Don't believe me at your peril. I wish those that have lost their jobs a bright future.
10
At least Trump forced Carrier into a deal whereas Hillary and Schumer, with their $ 210 million NYS aid package were blown off in 2003 with Carrier bulldozing its NYS factories
3
The issue of good paying rust belt jobs going to slave labor countries is a legit one.
Unfortunately the ego maniac Trump demagogued it.
Instead of fair non onerous tariffs on selective countries, with increased worker productivity and selected gov't help and a guarantee from the company that will not leave in a fixed period of time, we got the demagogue Trump, wildly putting tariffs on everybody, handing out corporate welfare by the ton with no guarantee of anything and protecting his corporate CEOs that buttered him up.
10
Here's the answer to Trump's question why Norwegians aren't coming here.
13
If these poor people would vote their interests, which means the Democratic party, rather than their prejudices, meaning the Republican party, they'd do a lot better economically and in terms of social support. Republic strategy: Play to white working class fears of blacks, immigrants, gay rights, abortion rights, gun control policy and turn the US into a huge banana republic. Divide and conquer. Brainwashing at its finest. Thank God my dear old Dad, an FDR Democrat died before this horrible clown took over. He'd be turning over in his grave if I hadn't cremated him.
24
@Oliver Fine...FDR himself has been turning over in his grave for decades as he watches what y'all have done to his Democratic Party. Cleansing the "working" class and embracing sandersistas. Nice job, y'all.
1
So T rump staged an event to fire up his base. Then US taxpayers bail out ungrateful people who can't be bothered to show up for work.
And Pence's state of Indiana has established a work requirement for Medicaid recipients.
Lots of folks on the take and being taken. To quote a famous witch: "Oh what a world, what a world..."
4
“Twenty years of schoolin’ and they put you on the day shift”
-Bob Dylan
If you can afford school, that is.
7
In big major urban cities, I seriously doubt workers without a formal education would be able to refuse required overtime because they are having trust issues with their employer. Employed on Trump’s dime, they would have been fired.
5
"Ms. Hargrove inserts tweezer-like strips of metal thousands of times a day into a tube that forms part of the heat exchanger in each furnace."
Hard to blame the workers for low morale with jobs like these. Automation will surely take these jobs but that doesn't seem any worse than saving people from all the other drudgery that automation has eliminated. The question for the rest of us is how to find meaning and sustenance in our lives when the only jobs left are flipping burgers (soon to disappear as well) for starvation wages.
Not everyone can be a pediatrician, or CE0. We will have to confront this sooner rather than latter, given the pace of automation and AI. One solution is "Universal Basic Income" another is Democratic Socialism.
Trump and Paul Ryan's vision is a return to a Dickensonian dystopia, and this despair is reflected in the worker's comments and the opioid crisis that is just in the background.
The first step to correcting this trajectory is to vote for the Democrats in November.
20
The employers dream: Having the employees blaming each other because some of them can't take forced 60 work weeks anymore.
It's always the employees fault. They could have worked harder.
That Carrier never improved the factory and assembly line in the last 30 years to rake in higher profits can't be the reason.
12
Seems to me that working 60 hours per week at the same repetitive job would probably take a roll. Mandatory overtime? I think if each employee is working 20 extra hours a week, that two people equal another 40 hour employee. Now I'm no math whiz, but basic math shows that Carrier could be hiring more 40 hour employees and give all employees the option of working overtime. I also know that companies don't want to hire full time employees because they have to pay healthcare, paid time off, and other benefits. It's obvious that Carrier's big push from this administration did not trickle down to the person on the line. Rather than blaming the line workers for low morale, poor attendance and, most likely sheer exhaustion, that Carrier would implement changes to show they appreciate and care about their employees as much as they care about profits.
24
I certainly got the impression from this piece that these folks are also distracted by their beliefs in " old time relgion".
6
Great piece that proves why large labor assembly line manufacturing has/is both off shoring and automating at a much faster rate than other types of manufacturing. Absenteeism is a major factor and it goes back decades. I suspect that absenteeism was a major problem at Carrier before 2016. I worked at a Waring blender assembly plant in 1977 that closed and moved off shore in 1980s, and absenteeism and drug use was a problem then. This is an old story.
5
Right to work law in Indiana attracts jobs, cheap disposable labor.
6
I’d be willing to bet everything that any of the guest workers at Mar largo would love to have those union jobs with overtime. One thing for sure if Carrier was owned by any of the Trump family, they would have shuttered that factory long time ago and thought nothing about moving overseas for greater profits.
30
I began my working life when unions were still strong and corporations, even the majority of them that were not unionized, felt that they had, not only to keep the peace with labor, but to respect the workers by providing them good conditions and stable jobs. Low employee turnover and high worker morale were critical corporate goals. That has all changed as unions no longer countervail the power of corporation and globalism makes labor another capitalist commodity for sale to the lowest bidder. Even in corporations that can't profit from globalism, one can see its effects. In hospitals and schools, where motivated employees are most needed, one hears of this widening mistrust and alienation between workers and bosses.The Carrier problems sound like a symptom of this change. To combat it we need systematic change in the behavior of corporations that may only be achievable via strong government action and a resurgence of some mechanism for labor democracy in the workplace. That seems unlikely in the age of Citizen United and global commodizesing of labor.
32
Despite the fact that this is 2018, labor and management relation is still adversarial in many industries, especially manufacturing. Due to government policies, both at the federal and state levels, unions are losing memberships and bargaining power while management has the upper hand in setting wages, benefits and rules. What is happening at Carrier is not the exception. It is exacerbated by the workers' belief that the plant would eventually be closed and management has done very little to dispel that belief.
It is hard to see how union bursting, low wages, loosening labor standards and protection would boost morale, productivity and bring manufacturing jobs to the US significantly. Tax cut in the hope of creating more manufacturing jobs in the US is a mirage.
18
Paul,
You wrote:
"Due to government policies, both at the federal and state levels, unions are losing memberships and bargaining power while management has the upper hand in setting wages, benefits and rules. What is happening."
Republican governors like Chris Christie and Scott Walker, who are backed by the Koch brothers, are the only kind of government leaders who are anti-union. Democrats are pro-union.
Remember that when you cast your ballot in November.
15
The tax cut was a gift to GOP corporate cronies. Republicans well knew that the windfall wouldn’t make any beneficial and lasting changes for workers. That was just their Party line to the “uneducated” that Trump spoke of so fondly. It was always about boosting the corporate class even further into the economic stratosphere.
10
The American worker has been losing ground for decades because of greedy corporations which have destroyed labor unions and outsourced jobs to cheap foreign labor markets.
There is also the issue of automation, which is only going to become more commonplace.
Anyone who believed that Donald Trump was going to come in and change this scenario by bullying these corporations has been conned.
22
Carrier needs to hire more employees. 60 hours a week, week in and week out, is too much and wears on the body as well as the mind.
21
Assuming the workers are correct with their suggestion that their jobs are temporary and will ultimately moved to Mexico, in my opinion, that's NO excuse to call in not go to work at Carrier. Instead knowing the job is temporary should be more incentive to to to Carrier and work, hording up as much money as possible because the job will eventually go away and the $25.00 plus and hour rate will go away too. To not show up for work seems a bit counter-intuitive to me. It also assists, reaffirms and validates Carriers plan to move to Mexico. Just my two cents.
22
@Gary - Right, the increased absentiism may be just the excuse Carrier is looking for to move overseas which explains why they are doing nothing to improve morale.
4
@Gary: The increased absenteeism is directly tied to the layoffs. People are working mandatory overtime and 60 hours per week. Carrier is deliberately running people into the ground instead of hiring more workers so they can move to Mexico.
5
@Gary. I love all the judgement from people who are in more secure positions because of employment status or education. These workers, who likely voted for Trump, are simply frightened and depressed. Clearly their actions make no sense to someone for who has the luxury of education, options etc. Not showing up for work doesn’t make sense on the one hand but if you see neither hope of security for your troubles or of a break from 60 hours a week, it begins to look like a rational response.
3
The former UTC CEO (owner of Carrier) Mr. Louis Chevrolet was fired by the UTC Board of Directors for supposedly not taking his job seriously and being out of contact when important decisions were needed to be made. Chevrolet was spending all his time in Singapore I believe watching his yacht being built. The current CEO Hayes replaced Chevrolet. It's not just the little guy who has no interest in their day job.
14
“The attitude, the demeanor — they’re not grateful that they have a job."
No one should have to be "grateful they have a job."
It's not charity nor a privilege.
Employers are not bestowing blessings upon a person by employing them.
A job should be an equal give and take - the employee does the work required and the employer pays them the agreed upon wage or salary. No gratitude or thankfulness is required.
Having said that, it seems clear Carrier is actively trying to drive workers away.
Mandatory overtime, up to 60 hrs, six days in row. Week after week after week. That's hard to sustain. Harder in your 50s or 60s.
Carrier has enough work to hire more employees, but is too cheap to pay the benefits costs for new hires or rehires.
If they don't close plant, the jobs will disappear due to automation. Until then, they need product.
People are not machines. But Carrier treats them like they are.
41
As a Canadian, I cannot imagine being forced to work 55+ hours a week over 6 days a week. These workers are human and I don’t think you can get too upset if morale is low. A middle class factory job is rare these days and should involve some appreciation of what they have. However, it appears Carrier is capable of hiring more people at 40-48 hour weeks to improve worker conditions.
28
@Ken
As an American living in Canada, I've grown to appreciate how much more humane work environments in Canada are. In my work, I meet workers in all types of jobs and in all sorts of industries across both Canada and the US. The stress levels are much lower in Canada, with greater balance between work and personal life. Workers are treated with more respect (especially respect for their personal time) and the relationship between workers and management is usually far less adversarial. In the US, managers seem to compete with each other to show who can sacrifice more of their personal lives to work—but they spend a lot of time spinning wheels trying to look busy and important while getting next to nothing done. Canadians work efficiently, then go home and live real lives. Increasingly I dread having to work on American projects. Huge teams of people working round the clock accomplishing nothing. Give me a productive 7.5 hour day in Canada, with time to relax on the patio with my wife afterwards and a weekend free for a paddle. You can keep America with your angry, harried masses, your crazy Tweeting President, and a management class that thinks sacrificing life to work 90 hours a week is some kind of badge of honour.
6
"If he were forced to take a lower-paying job at, say, an Indianapolis warehouse, he pointed out, his daughter’s dream wouldn’t come to pass."
Uh, why? Cant the daughter get some loans, qualify for some scholarships? Or like many of us did, like many disadvantaged still do - get a job, go to school at the same time? Maybe the curriculum ain't for this girl? Maybe lower the bar, like a Vet assistant?
I recently met a beautiful, inspiring young woman. She comes from immigrant parents, has a child, drives a clunker, she works nights and/or days as an aide in a home for adults with special needs, goes to school during the day, and is now a few inches from being an RN. It took some time, she hit a few trouble spots along the way - but she's nearly there!
Her spirit is remarkable! Absolutely stunning in her attitude that she not only had to struggle, she expected to struggle, and because she's a woman and dark-skinned, she would have to work 2-3 times harder then the other women around her. Many of them white, live at home, don't have to work, had a nice car provided by dad, and/or the white privilege of easier access to car loans/leases, etc.
Plus, her goal is land a nursing job, then go on to med school and become a doctor! Then she tells me, most of her other classmates, the privileged ones, are hoping to land a decent job, but then catch themselves a doctor to marry.
Grit and tenacity. That's the immigrant story. Apathy and privilege - the citizen story of late.
26
I guess Boregard you never had student loans and debt that goes with it. To become a doctor that could hundred thousand
So much for grit and tenacity- try paying that and having a decent life
4
@Boregard
When you have the amount of debt that medical school and even 4 year schools entail and you did not have financial support from your family, the chances are that you are rarely able to climb out from under that debt.
I taught at a college where most of the students come from socioeconomically poor families. They have a lot of grit and want to succeed, but their financial needs while in school often overwhelm the best of them.
It is not just about grit and tenacity. Wake up! Many first generation immigrants were not able to climb out of their poverty through grit and tenacity. Those who did were the lucky ones - had just the right experiences and circumstances.
2
@Martin Lennon
Yeah I did. So once again a commenter goes after the other commentator and is wrong! Ooops.
I worked hard to pay them off....and they were paid before any other expenses. I didnt drive a nice car till I could afford it. I rented small apartments, often in bad neighborhoods, I kept my credit in check, and didnt expect to have everything I wanted when I wanted it.
Its too bad you and the other commentator missed the real message of my post. But instead came after me. Typical online behavior...attack the messenger, not the underlying message.
Workers not showing up because they are stressed, worried, working long hours. I have a hard time feeling any sympathy for people skipping out on their jobs due to these issues since every worker in the United States could pull the same stunt. White collar workers face the same issues -- long hours that go far beyond their "salary" since their job descriptions include the words "until the job is done" to cover the working late nights and weekends issues. They too are stressed and worry about their job and being replaced but they show up each day and do the job. Millions of blue collar workers also do the same and don't just not show up day after day. If I were the CEO of Carrier this article would make me livid because of the negative image it imparts about the quality of the work force and the product they produce. I feel sympathy of the other Carrier employees -- the ones who show up day after day and do their job while trying to fill in for the deadbeat co-workers who choose to stay home to wallow in their pity for themselves.
8
This is not a Union problem. Low worker morale, absenteeism and tardiness are classic management problems. Carrier took the Trump bait because it reduced their tax burden and fattened their profit margins; the parent company doesn't care about this plant or the workers. Watching this play out from the sidelines, it smelled like reality TV and unfortunately the negotiation was all for show. Maybe these folks who pull a no-show are finding jobs where they get more respect.
24
Universal medicare and unemployment insurance aren't socialism. They are standard programs in a social democracy, and just about ever western country except the US has them. People in your country have been told lies about such standard social programs so that people feel it is unAmerican to want them. Instead profits go to the top five per cent of Americans who pay big money to political parties who use that money to get elected and in return, lower taxes for the top five per cent.
Don't be afraid of social programs that will only make your life better. Stop voting for the party that reduces your social benefits and gives the money to the top five per cent in tax breaks. It really is that simple.
58
These workers aren't stupid and any trust that existed was broken before stable genius showed up.
These people have seen their coworkers fired and they know it's just a matter of time. No job is 100% guaranteed (except Congress) but coming into work, waiting for the axe to fall is a killer. Perhaps Carrier's workers should be more grateful but they can see what's coming. It will be timed so as not to embarrass Pence and Trump but it's coming.
7
We knew at the time that the Carrier deal was just an empty political stunt. It was never going to save jobs, and with the tariff wars the loss of jobs will be a certainty. Carrier will suffer tremendously.
Trump only wants to help himself. His fake concern for ordinary working people is disgusting and heartbreaking. What is even sadder is the fact that his MAGA-head base denizens, like abused spouses, keep making excuses for him. He is selfish and an abuser.
It takes courage to finally realize that the abuser will never change. That is Trump, an unabashed, unrepentant and uncaring abuser. When will his "base" finally wake up?
33
I am confused. Thought the GOP and Trump tax cuts were supposed to ‘create’ more jobs and raise rages? Carrier not only received extortion money from the taxpayers of Indiana, but also a GOP/Trump tax cut and was supposed to help ‘turbocharge’ the economy.
Boy no one saw this coming.
6
@JMM Sorry, many saw this coming. Many saw this as a political stunt from the beginning, a sunny Trump con that was, in reality, rainy. Marx's theory of alienation recognized that capitalist production (factory) creates alienation. Corporations' quest for profit over people drives the end result: alienated workers and corporate profit squeezed from the labor of workers. Job creation isn't the golden fleece of life; happiness is (a life from alienation).
2
@Rennie
You realize I was being sarcastic right?
Republicans intentionally underfund education. A generation later, we have a fresh crop of undereducated (and frequently ignorant) worker bees. These people, who had so much potential at birth, are relegated to a shrinking pool of unskilled jobs. Republicans pander to these frustrated souls for their votes, and then cut taxes for the rich. It’s no coincidence that the majority of uneducated people are conservative; Republicans know that the vast majority of people with college degrees vote Democrat. It’s a formula, a cycle, and a tragedy.
37
What a mess. Demoralized workers. A union. A huge American corporation. Pence and Trump involved. Couldn't get any worse.
13
Working for a big corporation like Carrier is similar to being married to Donald Trump. The money might be decent for a while but you know he he’ll toss you aside the minute easier, cheaper prey comes along and you know he doesn’t play fair. You know you are there to boost his ego and that, in the end, he will make sure you are a loser because his only notion of winning is when you lose.
People don’t show up for work, even if they make decent money, because they know that in the end, it won’t matter. Even when you contribute to the company’s success, you will still never be seen as anything more than an expense on a balance sheet, an expense that the company, ultimately, would like to equal zero.
11
Shocker...There never was a "deal" in the first place. Even at the time, anyone with even half a brain knew that it was just bogus, self-aggrandizing garbage from Trump.
What's amazing is the people who still buy into Trump's misrepresentations and lies, especially working class, average Americans who have been consistently thrown under the bus by Trump and his Republican enablers since the moment Trump took office.
5
Carrier management is obviously doing something wrong - probably because it is still running an ancient assembly line where people do jobs better suited for mechanical arms and computers that don’t get bored.
Question #1 unanswered by the story: when the assembly line was built, how many units a day was it producing? How many ‘speedups’ have there been?
During tines of economic trouble across United Technologies, the company may have cut employees or raised the daily work expectation on the same production line.
Sometimes a line built for 700 units has to produce 850 then 900, then 1,000 with no additional workers, no improvements.
The photo of the workplace looks like it’s a room for computer-controlled equipment, not people.
I see no signs of modern soundproofing, lighting, comfortable work stations.
With all the Trump money in its pocket, United Tech could have redesigned the line to allow each of its interchangeable workers a personalized work station where each employee or a small team builds a whole furnace, base through testing. Not only won’t the line stop if one worker doesn’t show, but it gives human beings a chance to “build” something s/he can write a name on. This entire furnace, with 1,000 parts wasn’t “inspected by #12”, but built with pride by Mary and Fred - each with 16 years of experience assembling and testing Carrier furnaces - we think you’ll be happy with it for years” says the test result sheet inserted in the manual.
Humanize the workplace!
28
@Eatoin Shrdlu
Exactly right! They are closing a factory with obsolete equipment and are modernizing in a new environment with a lower structural cost basis.
Trump is doing the same thing by creaming off the pool of unskilled labor visas and using them to maximize profits at his "properties".
Trump is the ultimate corrupt grifter and he is naturally going to hang out as long as he can as president, because that allows him to maximize the profits for him and his brood.
Hopefully the next election will eject him and the next president will be tough enough to have him and his cronies pay for the damages they inflicted on this country.
I can't wait to see Trump and the cabinet homeless on the streets, panhandling for handouts.
3
Corporate executives use every tax dodge in the book, and they are rewarded with fat pay packages and bonuses for a job well done. Workers take advantage of the same system, and they are castigated as ungrateful wretches. Welcome to Dicken’s world.
10
How exciting for the Times after three visits to be able to report bad news as they see it. Anything to discredit Trump is good enough to print. The story here is union workers not satisfied with work. If the disgruntled employees would rather the plant had closed they can leave. Unemployment is 3.8%... get another job, The reporter’s obvious glee over finding a way to report good news as bad. The only thing better would have been the plant closing a year ago with all of the employees out of work, hungry and discouraged. But no, the plant is open, work is the same, employees have received raises and are working overtime so their take-home pay is greater. What a sad story and more evidence supporting the Times narrative that everything is terrible and it’s all Trump’s fault. The real story here is about the lack of leadership....union and company. The plant is open, people have jobs and demand for its product is strong.
5
@Ross it’s frustrating when facts don’t match your biases I suppose.
People with no real skills being paid $25/hr+ and then so worried about losing their jobs they counter by not going to work. Very sad. Maybe if they grew up and realized that you have to put some input into realizing an output they would be better served. But no, I fear they are just the people who claim they deserve to be treated better because it's their right and it's always somebody else's fault that they don't have jobs that pay more for doing less and that make them happy 24/7... puhleez... I can't tell you how much I don't feel your pain...
11
I don't get the story. Is it a blame trump, sorry for the workers story?
The workers have jobs but are skipping work and frauding the government because they are unhappy??? Do me a favour.
7
These workers are the same people that voted in droves for Donald Trump, so excuse me if I do not have any sympathy for their “morale”problems.
14
Seems the original carrier decision to move to Mexico was the best one. Now ungrateful workers don’t show up and have no interest in working harder and earning more $??? Isn’t that part of what sunk Detroit in the 70’s and lead to the rise of Toyota and Honda?
11
@Andrew Most of what sunk Detroit in the 70's was indifference to what the customer wanted, wanting to design the same old cars....
12
A must read piece of reporting that puts what's going on in American manufacturing in a nutshell.
3
This is some really sad trombone. Sad!
2
Sadly the employees of Carrier failed to acknowledge an important factor in Trump’s faux rescue of the air conditioner manufacturer: The pseudo-president is a total fraud.
3
Until blue collar Americans straighten out their utterly inconceivable desire to want guns and fetuses to receive better treatment from their republican overlords than they do, I have no empathy. I look forward to nature retaking their dead factories and towns.
13
Perhaps if they allowed immigrants to fill these positions, absenteeism would go down and production would rise.
19
Well, I've done factory work with mandatory overtime, all day on the feet, monotonous, physically hard, precise work.
I think the mandatory OT is a killer.
16
@Sophia I worked a job a few years ago with mandatory OT. Most of the workers were salaried and got no extra pay for their 60 hour work week. We also were not told about the OT for the weekend & the next week until Thursday afternoon. It was impossible to make plans for a few days ahead.
This type of job kills any kind of civic engagement. You can’t volunteer for your church, or your city, the local lodge, or social service organization because you have no idea if you will be available or not. This gets lost in the discussion.
11
Makes me want to look for "made in Mexico" because those workers work hard.
11
Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. Then you have to follow through.
4
Manufacturing work is hard and boring. Put on top of that, mandatory overtime, on your feet six days a week doing the same repetitive job 800 times a day. Plus, knowing that just one year ago half of the people were laid off and the intent was to get rid of everyone. Plus, are we getting any raises, no, promise promotions,no. Just keep working until we tell you to stop. Great morale.
15
Good grief! Those poor Carrier workers....depressed because Carrier might move their jobs to Mexico so they don't show up to work. Where is this blue collar work ethic that we hear so much about?
Maybe when Carrier does close up shop it should tell it like it is....the workers were lazy (and I suspect drug abuse plays a role).
I've spent my career as a worker bee in the business world where companies get sold and reorganized on a moment's notice. Did I stop going to my job because I was worried about a layoff....no.
I've reinvented myself and even pulled up stakes and moved for a job as have many white collar workers.
19
Carrier in Indianapolis has no credibility as a long-term employer. They have made it very clear that Carrier is still in Indianapolis because of the incentives and when they expire,Carrier will close the plant. Carrier is not unique; companies do this all over the US and it reptilian, but in Carrier's case it is there for all employees to see, it is a sword hanging over everyone's head.
The passivity of the US Steel Local is typical of organized labor and one reason they no longer have credibility with either employers or union members. The Union knows there is a problem and they know the probable cause, but rather than take a leadership position by convincing members the quality their work and their work ethic is their only real leverage and contribution to the business, the Union and its Local sit on the sidelines. It is not a surprise that aside from collecting money and quibbling with management over sometimes arcane rules, unions have no constructive role in American industry.
How many containers of stuff would not be on their way to the US at this moment if Unions were a factor in delivering a dependable, focused workforce concerned and interested in the quality of their work? The same question could be asked of technical schools and colleges.
7
@DEH
You had me till the "containers" thing. You have to know that the often absurd high rise in wages for these types of jobs at Carrier, etc, for so many similar employees 'round the US was unsustainable in the long run. Right, you do know that? That someone sticking a piece of metal into a tube a 1000 times a day at a $25+/hr wage was not gonna hold up...
That if we're honest with ourselves, such jobs were on the chopping block the minute they established themselves...as business by its very nature was immediately seeking ways to eliminate those jobs, and wages.
And why should these folks be paid $20+/hr to do one repetitive task, while a clerk in a big box home improvement outlet is required to also stand all day, but often has to do 6-7 different tasks at a time while too often dealing with crazy customers - at $10 -13/hr...? Or a home health aide making $9-12/hr...? Or a non-tenured teacher, or a bank teller, computer tech...all not making nearly as much as these lucky to have a job whiners!
And take a look at the Maynards in this story...do they have enough kids? Likely the types to complain about immigrants having too many kids and not enough income!
2
This story would seem to me to be Exhibit A in any essay explaining why manufacturers relocate and/automate. America’s manufacturing labor force is simply not very good in many parts of the country. Volumes have been written on the subject for decades and the reasons are varied. But think of this story the next time you see some fools waving “JOBS!” signs at a political rally. There are over 6 million unfilled jobs in America, and they’re not mostly at McD’s. It’s very hard to find qualified, reliable, drug-free workers in this country.
14
That may be your experience in Chicago but not in other cities. In the past, companies used to look within their 'human resources' and identify those who had the capability to be trained for jobs requiring a different skillset. This was an excellent way of building moral and saving money that would have gone to recruiting.
In 1985, a major bank in New York City set up an Entry Level Programmer Training program that selected about 14 employees and produced about 12 programmers already trained on Chase proprietary applications and systems. They were able to step into open programming positions with a short learning curve. This was a win-win all around.
2
It turns out that economics is more complicated than this administration thought. Long term innovation will continue to replace humans with robots for non-thinking repetitive manufacturing positions - nothing will change that. Future employees will adjust (kids in school- go to college or choose a trade like welding or carpentry or plumbing) but current employees will get caught in the crunch. A thinking President would stop grandstanding and develop and subsidize career retraining programs all over the country. Local employers who lack qualified staff could throw money into the pot as well. And as for all of us, the concept of job for life died in the eighties. We need to retrain and stay nimble on our feet until we retire and hope that Congress hasn’t taken SS and Medicare away from us through voters voting with their runaway emotions instead of their brains.
31
Could it be that cultivating low morale and absenteeism will ultimately provide Carrier with the rationale and political/PR cover it needs to close up shop in Indiana and move those operations to Mexico, thereby increasing profits?
Such situations raise important questions: what is the purpose of our economy? What is the nation to do when there are more people than there are living-wage jobs?
13
@Bob Rhubart
I never thought I would write this, but the only answer is that the US either returns to the frontline of innovation, therefore increasing the number of highly trained and productive workers andreducing the number of menial jobs and thus increasing demand and salaries for them, or implement a basic income below living wage, which will supplement the income these people get from working. The only way to do this is by increasing taxes for everyone.
But that would also be a sign of an inherently decadent society that is unable to compete.
3
So this has nothing to do with politics but rather the state of the American worker as well as how corporate America functions. I worked summers in a Ford plant and saw the exact same thing back in the 1970s. Full time workers protected by the union (dont read this as union bashing, there have been a ton of good reasons for unions to exist, it's just that both sides try to abuse the other) made such good money for what they wanted to make that they typically only wanted to work 3 or 4 days per week. That is why it used to be said to not buy a car made on a Friday or a Monday. Too many temp workers on the lines on those days and management would just let those cars roll off the line, defects and all.
13
Each of us is responsible for ourselves. We endeavor to have personal and professional relationships where the balance allows for success and, yes, compromise, on each side. A job is never an intimate partner and the writer is pandering to make it and the work relationship otherwise. As for the Carrier employee who said “I’ve never had an opportunity to go to school for free.” He obviously ignored one of the greatest corporate benefits of all time. The UTC Employee Scholar Program. And again shame on the writer who knows about the program and chooses to leave it out of the article again to make the story worse for these workers. This benefit is real. Ask some of the tens of thousands who have benefited.
From the website: The Employee Scholar Program is one of the most comprehensive company-sponsored employee education programs in the world. The program provides employees the resources to stay current in their chosen field or enable new career opportunities and includes the following benefits:
UTC pays for tuition, academic fees and books at approved educational institutions.
The program is available to our global workforce.
Employees can obtain a degree in any field, whether or not it is related to their job.
Partner universities deliver programs at our locations to provide work-life flexibility.
No I’m not an employee.
13
“It’s just not stable working in manufacturing. One day, the factory is going to go to another state or country.”
Working employees until they drop is what capitalists have been doing since the dawn of the Industrial Revolution. So, too, their treatment of humans as machines, along with the replacement of those workers by machines the instant machine-based technology becomes available and affordable. And if automation doesn't replace workers, management can, and will, move operations to states or countries where labor is cheaper the instant it becomes economically feasible to do so.
History is replete with these stories, over and over, again and again, for centuries. Centuries! Those who are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it. Jesus/Trump won't save you, but education just might.
43
Our Nation’s wealth is its citizens. Our prosperity is dependent on the ability of our nation to adapt to changing global needs faster and better than other nations.
While the author’s of this article provide a perspective of doom throughout the article they conclude with a hopeful message.
The Trade Adjustment Assistance program and other like it are the backbone of our nation’s ability to adapt to change. Our national goal should be to always provide free education and support to those citizens willing to contribute to our society’s growth.
It is our sincere hope that all federal, state and local governments apply significant resources to the retraining and support of their workforce to meet the needs of the new global economy.
8
@Re4M.org
Fair points. But naive to the point of being laughable.
For how long and till what age should we all be expected to retrain and/or relocate to make a living wage? 55,65...80?
At some point it becomes a completely absurd pursuit. Im all for continuing education thru a persons life, and in many fields of the personal and professional, but how many times can someone re-educate and re-train and maybe relocate - to simply afford to keep a roof, a moderately filled belly, and decent clothes? Not just for themselves but maybe for a partner, and a family...
Then factor in that any "under-staffed" industry can only handle so many new entrants in any location. Or that the next big opportunity for employment is in, near urban centers. What about the housing? Where's the affordable housing going to come from?
Too many talk like retrain-reeducate is the whole of the solution. Like its all people need. Its not as simple as plug-and-play. Life is complicated, people have circumstances that limit their geographic mobility. Limited mental abilities to simply retrain, and thrive.
And then there's the general costs of living. Who pays the bills while someone retrains? While both adults in a home have to! Or one adult/parent has a decent job, but the other is constantly retraining, or the job prospects are not local?
What then?
Housing is not being discussed. Children's needs for stability are not discussed. Elderly parents. Medical needs, etc, etc...
2
Boregard,
We sympathize with your point of view. The ever changing world economy does require adaptability which can be onerous and frustrating. Our point of view does not diminish any of the issues raised in your response but rather amplifies the assertion that government programs such as the one mentioned in the article are only part of a solution.
Like you, we understand that life presents many obstacles but unlike the article’s initial approach, we suggest promoting our nation’s number one resource, our citizens.
We noted that you suggested that adaptability may be required past the age of retirement. We partially agree. We concur that life’s challenges are permanent but we do not agree with the prospect that our citizens should require job skill adaptability after the age of retirement. Our nation was one of the first western nations to adopt a social safety network for our elderly, sick and disabled and we believe that as a nation, we should continue to support and enhance programs that provide such social safety. Thus, we revert to our initial statement about adaptability; Adaptability is required at all ages but our elderly, sick and disabled should not need to adapt to new work conditions. Rather, they should only need to adapt to new technology that will enhance and improve their quality of life.
Here is the sad truth. We have a labor shortage in America. And we are getting older. Doing the assembly line work is tedious and boring. Every manufacturer needs skilled redundancy in the work force in order to assure replacements when there is absenteeism.
Ironically, the solution ten years from now may be robots, but right now it is more immigration. The very thing that most of these Indiana workers voted against and their Messiah harps on, is their salvation for keeping the plant humming and their workers from burning out. 800,000 young DACAs and bringing in Mexican factory workers would be a smart place to start.
19
Single payer health care would solve a lot of these problems. Companies don't hire more workers because -- given the high cost of health insurance -- it's cheaper to work people into the ground with tons of mandatory overtime. Meanwhile, workers are scared to look for new work because they don't want to lose their healthcare, even for a few months. The lack of competition for labor holds wages down, fulfilling the cycle.
25
The article claims that employees aren’t showing up. Your argument is they are not showing up because they don’t want to lose healthcare. Only leftist ideologues could come up with something so ridiculous. The problem is that certain workers are lazy. Perhaps a better argument might be that they are not interested in working but would prefer to take a government subsidy as opposed to working or working overtime. This isn’t a reason for universal healthcare, it’s an indictment of the American worker at Carrier.
5
*Some* aren't showing up and the article indicated that for many of them it was related to stress, insecurity, etc. The mandatory overtime is atrocious. No company should be allowed to *require* or *mandate* overtime.
The point the earlier poster made about health insurance was not some leftist ideology — that's your bias showing through. It was about the reality that many workers feel trapped in their jobs because of it being linked to insurance. Without a full time job, they end up losing health insurance!
That's a reality. Virtually all advanced developed nations have universal health insurance or health care. The U.S. is a glaring exception, That's not leftist ideology; that's a fact!
By the way, when Trump campaigned there, he promised he would save ALL 1,400 Carrier jobs. The factory lost more jobs than it saved! And, it needed a massive taxpayer bailout to do so.
Finally, hope you like the fact that Trump Connie’s to hire *foreign* workers for his resorts rather than the many available American workers!
He's conned his base big time — they've been snookered; they've been Trumped!
26
In the U.S. loyalty goes only one way, to the top, without reciprocity. I wonder how much the C.E.O. and board make compared to Carrier's workers.
30
You talk about loyalty. These people aren’t even showing up for their job. You can’t lack more loyalty than no-showing.
2
@katherinekovach - For fiscal 2017, Chairman and CEO of United Technologies (parent co. of Carrier) Gregory Hayes made over $15.7 Million. No mention of overtime.
I am a Christian (Mainline Protestant), and a person of faith; still, I found the references to the Bible some of the interviewees made unsettling. I know I shouldn’t since they were maxims I myself believe. Doing an honest day’s work for an honest day’s pay doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with “what the Bible tells us” though. It’s just the right thing to do.
Maybe that’s what bothered me - a pervading sense of an over reliance on the Bible and in this case, a false prophet.
34
@Sherry
Why be "unsettled" by these workers' obvious need to believe in something to endure an improbable, frightening situation? How would you motivate yourself everyday to rise up and work at a job you fear you're bound to lose and where you're held in contempt? If these workers need to rely on the Bible, why belittle them that?
I, for one, fervently wished the workers--and the NY Times reporter--would've looked to and discussed the structural forces behind their predicament. They don't. All that's mustered (in this piece, anyway) is a hazy recognition of Carrier/United Technologies' alliance to global capital-profits and the company's indifference to its workers.
So, my question: if these workers proclaimed faith in Bernie-style/democratic socialist critique of their plight, would we NY Times readers applaud them then?
3
@Sherry The fact that people in this article misquote the Bible is not a surprise at all to me. I am a life long church goer and my husband has been working in a profession with church ties his entire career. People that claim to be Christian, in my experience, often don’t know the basic doctrines of Christianity. For most people, church gives a them a “tribe” to belong to and a lifestyle to try to follow. What the Bible actually says often isn’t even in the picture.
12
"A few years ago, Carrier would treat workers to a meal before Christmas — a big spread of Kentucky Fried Chicken mains and sides. Now employees bring most of the food, potluck style. The company contributes only the meat."
Similar things have been happening all over the country. A certain large financial services company used to do all kinds of things for employees but now hardly gives them the time of day. And profits have never been higher.
32
My brother dropped out of college when he was 19 in 1976 or 1977. He walked into Ingersoll Milling Machines and got a job with starting pay of $25/hour.
In the late 60's early 70's, United Auto Workers made $25 an hour and you could hire a lawyer for $45 an hour.
16
Even those whose anxieties have been temporarily mollified by Trump's three-card monte know deep in their hearts that it is a con. Even those who are grateful for a job know that all he did was pour economic jet fuel in the tank, and the vehicle will break down because it isn't supposed to run on egregious tax-cuts, much less those that disproportionately benefit investors and management rather than workers. American workers who have seen some small economic bump share know, somewhere in their hearts, that they have been used as a prop in an episode of The Trump Show, and they will discarded when the episode is over and he has moved on to another scam.
58
This article illustrates the vast failures of American society. The richest country in the world cannot provide its workers with healthcare and decent employment insurance. Most importantly, it makes education virtually unaffordable to all but the elite. Thus, ordinary people are stuck in deadend jobs with no prospects of bettering their conditions. Even worse, companies and their executives make larger and larger fortunes while paying fewer and fewer taxes, giving back less and less to the society. This appears, on the surface, to be a problem rooted in economics and globalization. It is not. It is a problem of politics, ideology and social norms. The right in the US has dismantled society, undermined essential government, and then convinced too many people to subscribe to policies and beliefs that work against their own self-interests. Socialism, and much greater government action to reverse inequality, is the only viable option.
50
@Shaun Narine
"Most importantly, it makes education virtually unaffordable to all but the elite. Thus, ordinary people are stuck in deadend jobs with no prospects of bettering their conditions."
Yea, well if you just give up that's certainly true and by the tone of the article that seems to be the case more than not. However, there are plenty of affordable educational options out there eg, online schools that prepare you for certifications in technical jobs with high demand. You don't need an ivy league degree and you don't have to go into permanent debt to make a decent living. What are these workers doing to upgrade their skills to prepare for the inevitability of plant closings?
5
And on top of all this no universal health care. Better not get sick, out of a job and then bankrupt. Don’t worry, Trump will fix it.
32
You may be dismayed to know Carrier employees have great health care. Pick another story to comment on.
The employer provided healthcare is only available for the employee. Lose your job, no universal healthcare to cover you while you look for another job!
2
The business of American business is making a profit for the owners and the stockholders. They are not in business to create jobs, but they offer jobs as a means to generating a profit. They will do so by maximizing the efficiency of their employees (squeezing as much productivity as they can at the lowest wages possible), or through automation or offshoring. Poor employee morale generally is a management problem, not an employee problem.
29
Poor employee morale is a problem for both the employee and management. Only management does not care about the employee’s problem. There is always another employee to take their place when they burn out.
2
I really want to feel some sympathy for these workers cause we (Americans) are in this together.
But I am thoroughly confused. On the one hand, some of the workers claim that as long as Trump is in power, the jobs will remain; on the other some of the employees do not show up to work because they do not know when those jobs will dissapear and that is causing low morale.
If true that Trump comes through for them, shouldn't the conclusion be instead that they will likely have at least another 2.5 years of assured employment?
But beyond these workers, this article somehow feels alarming to me because it seems that Trump's insanity is truly sinking into the American consciousness. It is loud and clear that...
1. I am being taken advantage of ( by Carrier, management, Mexico, China, Europe, the other )
2. My anger, fear and even bad behavior is justified because I am not longer getting what I deserve ( from Carrier, Washington, etc.)
3. Trump alone can fix it....
I can see how Trump is winning, but can the rest of us say the same? I think not....
36
Corporations today report only to the stockholders. Publicly listed corporations, in the future, should have board members SEPARATELY representing their customers, suppliers, employees, the environment, along with the communities within which they operate.
Only federally-mandated REFORM of corporate board structure has any hope of preventing America's version of "Capitalism" from becoming every bit as onerous as Communism for American workers and communities.
Apple might still be building Iphones in the USA if the CEO had to answer to all of those groups, and not just stockholders. Black and Decker might still be an American brand. Ditto, Craftsman. And on and on and on.
When employees' lives consist of nothing more than working, overtime, and sleeping on their single day off, things are seriously out of whack.
38
It's amazing to me that Carrier hasn't proactively tried to solve this problem of absenteeism.
As you read this article it seems like the company is saying the right things, but are those words actually being turned into action on the work floor?
To me, management, acting proactively and with an open mind, should be able to easily solve a problem like this. Or maybe they don't want to solve it. Especially if their over-riding motivation is increasing profits, something that moving to Mexico will help to accommodate, even if 100% of the workers show up 100% of the time.
18
@Ex New Yorker My guess is that they do not want to solve the problem.
2
So the economy is doing great, unemployment is low, the factory is profitable and the product has demand.
Yet, the workers need to work “up to 60 hours a week with mandatory overtime, six days in a row”. Mr. Maynard, one with a job, still has to move to a smaller place to make ends meet and his family (whom he barely has time to see, if he has such a schedule) has to give up its dreams in case he loses his job.
All sounds peachy with the American dream.
54
Seen it many many times where the company pockets more money by not hiring sufficient staff. The workers they have will work harder and also required to do mandatory overtime. Those employees burn out. Don't know if the company does this on purpose because they're only looking at a short term goal, but it always ends with it being sold off or possibly ruined. Not all employees are built the same. Some can handle it, but many can't. The stress and depression of going into work can make many call off.
35
So they're retrofitting this Carrier facility to jet engine production, using mostly automated equipment and highly skilled workers, which will displace many of these people?
I'd call this more than “a little bit of bad luck.” for the current employees, and I wouldn't appreciate the slights, either.
17
Sixty hours per week, six day weeks, translates to ten hour days with one day off working in difficult factory conditions. I'd take sick leave if I could. Carrier is pushing workers to the brink of illness so the company can claim it's the fault of the workers that they had to close their American plant. It is so obvious what Carrier is doing. Why doesnt everybody see it?
107
I am worried by the amount of anger and even hatred at those workers expressed in the majority of the comments. (also shocked that some comments seem to assume that all those workers are white!).
There doesn't seem an inkling that the situation calls for solidarity and for turning those votes to Democratic candidates. So I'm afraid that the pseudo Republicans might win again (particularly if those commentators who seem to reject workers then vote for a 3rd party without any care for actual issues)
23
Look at the teen girl’s Jesus T-shirt. Says it all. As long as tRump panders to the Evangelical community his votes are safe.
4
@Kati I live in Indiana. Turning these workers in Democrats will be a nearly impossible task. I can’t overstate how the GOP has propagandized Hoosiers.
1
After reading the article I have to admit I'm confused. I'm 68 and I don't work any more. I didn't say I was retired, I only said I don't work any more. I've worked in a variety of jobs in factories and industrial jobs, as well as offices and I can't think of a single company that in any collective sense actually cared for its employees. Plenty of lip service which most knew was insincere and motivated by profit but very little genuine concern other than those employees that possessed a particularly valuable skill or succored favor.
But I was quick to learn three very important things: that if my job lacked meaning or an acceptable future I would find satisfaction outside of work or move on. And finally and most importantly, if I didn't show up I didn't get paid. I've worked for companies where I was appreciated and well paid but it was because I had a valuable skill and a work ethic but I was never under any illusion that if that skill was no longer called for then I there was a high likelihood that I would be shown the door. I've never understood those that required external or paternal appreciation to even show up for work. The last thing I'd expect or even desire is some corporate gnome to determine for me what was truly important in my life.
Show up for work every day and work an honest days work for a honest days pay and if you're shown a little consideration so much the better. The days of High School to middle class are long gone.
45
How do you find meaning outside of work when you work 10 hours a day, six days a week?
25
@Francisco: Holy cow. Almost everyone I know is doing this except for the ones that are working 7 days a week. And if you factor in people's commutes, I'm sure it's more than 10 hours a day, in many cases. As Drew Carey said, "There's a support group for this. It's call the Bar," (That's a joke, not an answer). Like Michael, I'm 68 and unlike Mike, I'm still working 7 to 7 x7. And yea, it's rough, but you do it. And to answer you question, "How do you find meaning outside of work when you work 10 hours a day, six days a week?" "Ya just do it, Francisco. That's how."
3
You sound like someone who has no idea what hard work is. I managed to do it. I have friends who manage to do it. At 68, my mom still does it.
All you commenters pitying these workers making $70,000 for unskilled work sound just as bad as the they do.
1
This is where the unions fail the test of being a partner with employers.
The workers are as a lot lazy, inconsistent and uninvested in the company. They show no signs of wanting to improve their skill set, but want a middle class wage.
8
@David Gregory Since I live about 30 miles away from the Carrier plant, and I’m retired from the automotive industry that used to boom in Indiana, let me respond.
No, those people aren’t “lazy, inconsistent and uninvested.” Quite the contrary... as the corporate workers they are, they’ve become just an unimportant piece of the puzzle for United Technologies and they know it. Their bosses constantly remind them that they are replaceable, either through automation or outsourcing. They know they are on the way out. They know that there will be a day when they clock in, the boss will say to go to the cafeteria and boom, their jobs will be gone. A good work ethic actually may make UT more profitable and hasten their demise... it works that way. The corporation won’t be grateful. They’ll use the profits to automate or for stock buybacks. I don’t blame these people at all, because I’ve been through a plant shutdown. My friends all have too... a buddy worked at a GM plant in the mid-90s. A big shot came in for a dog and pony show and bragged that the plant was the best kept secret in GM. GM announced its closing two weeks later. I’ve learned never to get too “invested” in the corporation you work for, because they aren’t “invested” in you.
75
Amen to that, brother.
I'm 54, and have had employers beg me to work for them since those of the younger generations abhor work.
It's that simple - a "work ethic" is a thing of the past.
6
Maybe they are angry that Republicans working in a union shop can now FREELOAD.
1
Trump is attempting to resuscitate 1950s-style blue collar industry in this country.
Why?
Because those are the people that vote for him. And he likes to be popular. And that's it.
Nothing else.
Now if those people realized that he isn't actually tying to help them, to help themselves... well, they still might vote for him. So nevermind.
52
The question we need to ask is why are the factories in Mexico and why do we allow this type of trade .. this has nothing to do with Trump.
The factories in northern Mexico are there for one reason - cheap labor and no tariffs. They don't supply Mexico with HVAC equipment. They are there to undercut USA wages and environmental laws. Prior to NAFTA these plants did not exist -- NAFTA is geopolitics not sound USA trade policy.
Would it cost more to make the equipment in the USA plant -- absolutely. Would they need to sell for higher prices ..yes. But, we would also have more people making wages high enough to afford those products.
Has automation reduced worker numbers per output count -- yes .. but there are still workers! Why should we loose a plant with 800 jobs? Apple makes iPhones with lots of automation -- guess what .. lots of people are needed as well. None working in USA production facilities. Apple should be making them in the USA. We can't make Apple a nice profit on $800 phones?
When I see comments -- Socrates in particular ... pitting Americans against one another as if it's some game. I boil. It's not a game and something that started 25 + years ago has nothing to do with Trump. Cheap t-shirts from Walmart have a cost .. mostly to our fellow citizens.
26
Thing is, the iPhone would have never existed without global world trade. Not just production facilities. It’s the flow of people, ideas and resources that got us to this point.
But any positive has it’s negative, and while many exploit the negatives for short term gain, you can’t isolate one aspect of the problem and expect the rest to play out the same. The positives aren’t even the cheap t-shirts at Walmart.
The hope is that collectively the world improves and there’s no point in taking a factory to Mexico because they earn the same. But putting artificial barriers in the most connected world that has ever existed, well, that may work out in the short-term, but you’re doomed in the long term.
Apple doesn’t make the iPhones in China because they have cheaper labour. They have the labour, plus the component supply chains and the capacity to pump out 45 million new phones (of a new model) a quarter. Sure the margin is large. But there’s no capacity to build at that scale in the USA, and it’s not Apple’s duty to create the entire ecosystem.
11
@Francisco “The hope is that collectively the world improves and there’s no point in taking a factory to Mexico because they earn the same...”
I agree with this. The problem is that the US doesn’t seem to have any collective will to help the workers caught in the crossfire.
I hear so many complaints about young people’s lack of work ethic. I don’t think they lack a strong work ethic, but they’ve observed that for their parents, ultimately, their strong will to work led to the dead end of “Reduction in Force”.
@GT
Yes, it started with Reagan and his trickle down theories of tax cuts for the rich. The one good thing he did do was to allow illegal workers who could prove that they had worked and paid taxes to become legal. Without those workers, there wouldn't be as many successful lawn care/ landscaping businesses, restaurants, janitorial services etc. And there wouldn't be so many who were like todays "dreamers" who went on to college and high paid careers.
1
This article is a perfect description of existing in the job market as a precariot. Derived from the word precarious. These Carriers employees are classic examples. They form a social class of people suffering from precarity, which is a condition of existence without predictability or security, affecting material or psychological welfare. Specifically, it is the condition of lack of job security, including intermittent employment or underemployment and the resultant precarious existence. Their absenteeism is just a symptom of their status. Under normal circumstances they would come to work, make money ,support their families and enjoy their stable, predictable lives. But they feel very very vulnerable. Trump has added to their misery by cobbling together a temporary plan for political gain and talking points and should have kept his nose out of Carriers business. Carrier should have been encouraged to provide severance to these folks. They could have then sought other job or furthered their education.
28
Indiana is one of the states hard hit by the opiate epidemic. I wonder if the absenteeism is somehow correlated.
22
My takeaways from this report are:
1) Avoid buying a Carrier furnace anytime soon. I'm in the market for a new one, but with this level of absenteeism and morale issues, its difficult to have much faith in the brand and the quality assurance that goes with it. Or maybe I just need to look for the "Made in Mexico" label.
2) The negative stereotype that American workers are lazy snowflakes who take having a job for granted like its some kind of entitlement has more truth to it than we knew. I find this stunning in this modern era, when manufacturing is declining in the US and Canada and political assumption seems to be that these types of jobs will fire up the American workforce is a mantra, that people with the opportunity to work and actually make America great again would deliberately sabotage their own best interests. That said...
3) This is what this demographic voted for, so the low morale and uncertainty is what they actually want because freedom of choice and none of that union nonsense. Low morale is contagious and a self-fulfilling prophecy. American workers have to earn their reputation as the best skilled workforce in the world even more so today, when most manufacturing is done overseas.
Productivity and good morale and job security are no longer entitlements. Maybe this is a lesson that this generation has to re-learn firsthand.
26
Rese,
Finally a comment that neatly lays it out! My thoughts exactly.
1
I’m puzzled as to how you think this all works. The days of $45 per hour jobs are gone, but it’s okay if Mr. Hayes pulls in a paltry $7700 per hour? Really? So, if salaries and benefits, working conditions, safety and environmental management should be in constant decline, exactly who is it that will be purchasing all these Carrier HVAC products? Moving jobs to third world countries is all about destroying unions and making bigger profits for the 1%. These companies don’t care anything about their employees.
51
@Doug Thomson Thinking has nothing to do with it .. it's Trump anger. Don't you understand -- they (the worker) all should have gone back to school and become doctors.
Read another story and the same commenters will talk about minimum wage and income disparity.
Don't worry. Drumph will fix this. Maybe not this year, or next year, or the year after that but keep hoping. Thoughts and prayers.
46
Laws of economics are as pervasive as the laws of physics. One may thwart the laws of economics for a while as long as the government has the money to distort the markets (i.e. tax credits). However, eventually the laws of economics prevail and the production moves on to the low-cost locations. Trump offered an elixir that is not a solution for the situation, although in the short term it may seems to work; and people unwittingly bought into it. But the reality eventually catches on and so does its consequences. I do sympathize with Carrier workers, who were dealt best cards (no college degree) that left a few options in the fast changing world of the 21st century, and Carrier allowed the best option at the time and yet that is not a long term solution. Mr. Jacque Williams, a former Carrier worker who returned to school to earn a certificate as a technician for heating and cooling equipment, has taken a better path to train himself for a job that cannot be outsourced. The $7 million in tax credit to Carrier should have gone to programs that retrain people rather than to Carrier for automation, but then again thinking long term is not a specialty of politicians such as Mr. Trump and Mr. Pence who seek quick political gains. Thinking through things beyond his own needs is definitely not Mr. Trump’s forte. Hopefully the workers in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and the rest of Rust Belt would look at Carrier as an example and not fall for those selling quick remedies that failed.
31
@PK2NYT Funny .. you think it's fine that Mr Williams is now going to install HVAC equipment -- that's no longer made in the USA?
What you don't understand is most factory work has never be no -skill .. and much today is higher skill.
No other 1st world country allows what we have allowed to take place in Mexico under NAFTA ... ask the Germans.
In spite of Ms. Hargrove’s comments, poor worker morale and a dispirited work environment is 100% the fault of management. The problem here is that someone actually believes that $25 an hour is a living wage for a family, especially when Gregory Hayes is forced to scrimp by on almost $16 million a year or $7700 an hour in total compensation. Nobody is worth anything near that much money. Carrier and it’s ilk will send jobs to Mexico or China or Indonesia or India because in doing so they can destroy unions, avoid paying a living wage, ignore safe working environments and disregard environmental regulation. They care not one jot or tittle about the workers anywhere other than as a resource to exploit. Hayes could easily establish a training program to prepare Carrier workers for employment in the aerospace industry, but he’d rather throw them to the wolves.
60
You know, Hayes makes 5 Times the $25 / hour salary every minute and if he sweats, it’s at an over priced gym or a Caribbean beach, not on an assembly line.
17
@Doug Thomson For better or worse, he is offered compensation by the board for the value he brings to the stockholders; their money, to spend as they see fit.
5
My thoughts and prayers go to those Trump voters in their time of need. We sorely need those air-conditioners this summer.
“Low morale” is endemic in Trump / Pence land.
The woman’s tee shirt in article photo says what the corporations will be giving workers next...and more prayer.
17
Vote Trump. Skip work. Lot of self-destructive behavior going on out there in the red-state conservative heartland . . .
31
Hopefully Carrier won't dump the executives;) And be sure those stock option plans you give them are really loaded! And do some stock buy-backs to juice the stock price for those executives so they can cash-out properly.
But why bother with the rest of the employees. What do they do anyway? I mean, do those low level units do any of the "strategic planning" or even know any of the latest buzzwords?
Management isn't any smarter than most of us, they are just more driven towards greed and having more $ than other executives.
8
How entitled are these workers! Make money while you can, take the classes and try to sock away a little with overtime do when your job does leave, you’ll be prepared. Awww work is depressing. I don’t get these people and how they think.
I have no guarantees of lifelong employment at my job but I still show up. Quit being brats and expecting Trump or Carrier to take care of you. Grow up.
25
Trump voters are proud to go on TV and brag about how Trump is stopping the supposed "illegal aliens" taking their jobs and companies sending work overseas. Yet their situations have not changed. They are not making more money, they get absolutely no benefit from the tax cuts to the rich and when given the opportunity to work, they don't even bother to show up.
The sad part is that they will vote for Trump again. So will the coal miners that thought Trump was going to bring back the coal industry. So will all the people who have lost health care at his hands. We should not feel sorry for these people. They put themselves in this predicament, and like Trump, double down on every dumb mistake they make.
83
Carrier Corporation Employee Reviews in Tyler, TX
Company moved to Mexico
press operator (Former Employee) – Tyler, TX – May 22, 2018
Great job to work for until the company moved to Mexico. Was going to retire from the company but all that changed in 2012. As for the company coming back it would never be the same
Pros
Paid vacation health care 401k
Cons
Short break a lot of overtime
Great place, older crew that know what it took to get the job done.
Maintenance Mechanic, dispatcher (Former Employee) – Tyler, TX – April 8, 2017
I worked in industrial maintenance. We kept the factory going, every day of the week. Anything we repaired or installed had to be right, based on the liability and safety training we received weekly.
Carrier was a seasoned factory with a huge amount of experienced workers. We worked and worked somemore, until they gave us the news that they were shipping our units to be built in Mexico.
Pros
Learn and perform skill industrial trade.
Cons
Great company, wish they were still here, I miss them. They were my livlihood for over 30 years.
Carrier
Production Tester (Former Employee) – Tyler, TX – June 21, 2016
Loved my job at Carrier. I had good benefits and compensation. The hours were great. However, the corporation decided to move the plant to Mexico to get cheaper labor so the company shut down and left thousands with out a job.
https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Carrier-Corporation/reviews?fcountry=US&f...
5
@Gerhard-Thank you. Please reviews are a powerful indictment on a once proud company. Parent company UTC is worth $78 billion. Greed is good.
3
@Gerhard
So the question is. Why do we have a system (trade policy) that allows importation of products back into the USA w/o proper duty or quotas ?
Why can China dump steel into Mexico that then goes into Carrier products that are then shipped into the USA .. and the steel does not count?
After a while -- people forget that at one time we did not allow this -- they forget what sound trade policy looks like. Thankfully -- some can still see it -- go to Germany/Japan/Korea/ China .... the don't allow.
2
These are good jobs. If current workers prefer slacking to putting in a good day's work, then get rid of them, and fill the vacancies with hard working immigrants.
28
To the workers at the Carrier: life isn’t easy for most people. There is no point in being cynical and hopeless.
Get up, get out and do stuff! That’s the only way to live.
11
Not surprised that employees’ poor performance is blamed on Trump. Abusing family leave benefits? No good deed goes unpunished.
3
. . . because nothing motivates a person more than the knowledge their livelihood is just a prop in a political stunt.
15
These people don't have my sympathy.
They themselves voted for the death of unions in the 1980's under Reagan.
They repeatedly shot down every advance that labor made in the name of free markets, which they were glad to swallow.
Their cultural conservatism, their racism, their religiosity got in the way of every progressive move that came from the Left.
As they sank into drugs, they voted for Donald Trump.
They don't have my sympathy.
84
Could not agree more, their poorly informed people that are not prepared to handle reality.
4
" Nothing Ms. Rowan found came close to her previous pay of $17 an hour plus overtime. Eli Lilly offered $14.50 an hour, while Roche paid $13 and change."
Ms Rowan found a job with an ok salary but has only 2 days off each month and once had to work 13 days in a row ...
In the U.S, if Ms Rowan was on the minimum wage , she would be looking at $7.25 an hour with no benefits.
Let's look at if Ms Rowan were Australian:
The national minimum wage is currently $18.29 per hour or $694.90 per 38 hour week (before tax).
Casual employees covered by the national minimum wage also get at least a 25% casual loading.
Ms Rowan would not get the Min Wage, she would get much more. If a casual employee on Minimum wage, her hourly rate would be $22.86 an hour.Overtime would range at 1.5X to 3X the rate (which would be up to $68.58 per hour)
Full time Min Wage workers get 4 weeks paid leave a year, Paid Maternity Leave, 10 days Paid Sick leave and an extra 10% P.A of Salary by her Employer into an account for her retirement.
Health Care is free in Australia and Prescription Drugs cost a maximum of $38 a month.
On Min Wage she would get other benefits to help support her "low income"
66% of Australians are in the Middle Class* (#1 in World)
82% of Australians are middle Class or HIGHER.
America has 33% of people in Middle Class.
*a person with more than $US100,000 in wealth
America is the richest country on earth and Business has been booming but they just pay crumbs...
WHY?
93
@Loomy
Because we have become a kleptocracy! And voters are gullible. All the right wingers have to do is get blue collar workers and others to vote against abortion and they won't notice they are being robbed of decent wages and benefits until it is too late and the Kochs and their ilk rule.
This is not about Trump. It's about a Dickensian level of disconnect between the classes that he would be the last person to understand.
16
Anyone who has been on the powerless end of the employer-employee relationship knows how this will end. Carrier will eventually use absenteeism as a reason for decamping to Mexico. But, let us be clear, they will decamp regardless of absenteeism. Some employees know this instinctually. Their gut feeling tells them that Carrier will betray them and move their jobs to Mexico, regardless of what they do -- whether they are good workers or bad workers, they know that the minute Carrier can, it will move their jobs to Mexico.
Clearly, there are workers who will keep on until the last minute, and they will be the ones who have been betrayed the most, because they are the ones who have nurtured false hope.
The workers who shirk now already sense what is coming. Currently, they do not know how to feel or react to a phenomenon that has not yet occurred, but is inevitable. So they simply practice avoidance. For many, detaching emotionally and physcially is the best way to let go of anything, including a job.
The days when an employer would fight to keep his employees on the job -- when an employer would defy greedy shareholders to protect his employees -- are obviously gone.
11
@Allison Sorry, I don't buy it. The workers are creating a self-fulfilling prophesy by not showing up. They think the company is going to leave anyway, so they don't show up (which is self destructive from an income standpoint even if they knew for sure that the company was leaving), which causes management to make a decision to leave.
This reminds me of a report on NPR today in which they interviewed people who don't vote. They don't vote because the wrong people get elected, so they don't vote which insures that the wrong people get elected.
Seems to me that if my company was shutting down, I would be doing two things: looking for a new job and putting in as much overtime as possible.
What happened to hard-working American workers?
13
I see other ironies here. The GOP and current administration has worked to make it harder for people to afford college and pay off student loans, so that dream of becoming a pediatrician is harder to reach. They have tried to reduce or eliminate programs for retraining displaced workers. They have tried desperately to end access the very benefits these workers need, like family medical leave and health insurance. And most immediate of the ironies, the Trump administration as well as Carrier would love to destroy blue collar unions like the one that got wages this high in the first place. Who's winning now?
28
A complex situation with unfortunately sensationalist rhetoric. I don't buy the suggestion that any of these people are somehow spoiled by security and good times. What I glean is people experiencing learned (inculcated) helplessness and desperation. Continuous months of 60 hr weeks takes a toll as well. If you have to work 60 hrs a week to have a modestly middle class life it is not sustainable nor compatible with life satisfaction.
The commenters who take from this that workers are lazy or crazy need to walk a mile in their shoes. Sure, there are absolutely ne'er do wells among them just as there are ne'er do wells in Every population group from priests to doctors to hedge fund managers to housewives to taco bell managers. No more, no less. That is not the issue. Step back and see the forest and not just the trees.
Why do we as a culture kick people when they are down? All the tough guys and gals telling the carrier workers to buck up and appreciate that they get to work in a soul deadening, physically uncomfortable job 60 hours a week with zero security for a marginally middle class lifestyle...what is Your Problem? You need someone to feel superior to?
Automation and outsourcing will come. These people will either be blatantly poor or have to move, which they won't be able to afford. Corporate power is radically too strong in our country. That is the actual problem. Big money owns Our government. That is the actual problem. That is what this story is really about.
62
Trump is performing old-fashioned showboat interventionalism without addressing the underlying global structural reasons causing this misery.
The answer is to promote the industries of the future in the heartland, not putting those of the past on life support.
The fall and agony will only be more brutal under Trump's policies. But he could not care less.
16
For a lesson in corporate loyalty, please go to Syracuse, N.Y., where Carrier was founded, home of the Carrier Dome, and Carrier employed thousands of factory workers. All the factory jobs are gone, moved elsewhere, and acres of Carrier factory buildings have been bulldozed back into a green field -- like that Talking Heads song. The Carrier workers in Indianapolis have all the evidence they need in Syracuse. Once the Trump heat is fully off, that factory goes to Mexico, bet on it.
36
Snookered by 45 is what they were. It would have been interesting to also hear from some of the absentee employees....is it hours, morale, management, etc. Besides how do they get away with not showing up to work and still keep a job?
14
They are using the Family Leave and Medical Act as their excuse to not be at work, as is stated in the article. They're not just "skipping" work, they have a legal reason.
Now, the fact that this Act is ONLY available to people who work in large companies like Cartier? Well, that's another issue / debate, entirely.
Susan
Expat in Ireland
It is so ironic that the economy and jobs situation is so good that workers have the gall to no-show to their good job, at the exact same employer that was saved by Trump in the first place.
9
“According to Carrier, absenteeism has not increased. In a statement, the company said it was “proud of the great work being done by our Carrier employees at our Indianapolis plant.”
Trumplicons wake up. This corporate statement contradicts the comments made by the line employees. Who is telling the truth?
Carrier lies to keep stock price up perhaps.
Employees take time off because they can.
One thing this article convinces me is that anyone buying a Carrier furnace should buy an extended warranty and make sure their carbon monoxide detectors are functional.
29
Actually Carrier may not be lying. One reason why they might have wanted to move to Mexico is because this is a constant problem and one that just hasn’t happened in the last year. Other people commenting here have correctly identified the problem: poor management - meaning a lack of skill doing their job, which in turn means that no one is teaching the managers to manage.
The deal Trump cut still meant 600 job losses - better than 1,300 however he should have saved them all if he was the only one who could have saved them.
This would be a joke if it wasn't so absurd. Good paying jobs go wanting because the employees are depressed they might lose their jobs?
Seriously? This is the ultimate snowflake and it proves the point that all the election talk about the so called "forgotten man" and the economic anxiety of the "Rust Belt" had nothing to do with being forgotten or economic anxiety.
We must treat ALL people in this country who refuse to be helped, or decline help or who refuse to bootstrap exactly the same way, regardless if they live in the "inner city" or Trump land.
22
@Paul...half lost their jobs, atuomsation is coming.
@ suemtchlrnw I got that. This article is about people WITH jobs who won't show up for work because they are too depressed automation is coming.
GIVE ME A BREAK!
Willis Carrier was once seen fanning himself with an events program at an auditorium in New York during some function. The auditorium was air conditioned by York.
Great marketing strategy by W Carrier.
I was working in International Air-conditioning Company, a distribution agent for Carrier in Singapore from 1970 to 1984 then. I read this in an article in a magazine circulated by
Carrier in Syracuse. The catch phrase then was, 'The Carrier Man Can"
Don't let this man's great idea go down the drain.
4
I have been reading some of the comments (there were over 360 when I posted mine) and I saddened by the disparaging remarks in many of the comments against these workers and the workers in red states. I do not enjoy their suffering. I am afraid that Trump and others may be succeeding in creating divisions within workers and putting workers against workers. We do not always make rational decisions especially when we are under immense propaganda against liberal ideas. In addition, I do not think the Democrats put forward a set of cogent ideas on how to deal with outsourcing.
I like others do not understand the reasons for the absenteeism in this plant. From reading the paper, I gather that it may be due to working conditions more than anything else. But, I do not know for sure. This article may be good journalism, but it is bad science, in particular this "In some ways, the situation is a metaphor for blue-collar work and life in the United States today. " This is generalization that it is not supported by hard data.
P.S. Very nice picture.
13
My heart goes out to those showing up everyday and doing the work wondering when it will end.
Those not showing up because of low morale, because it won't last, etc. need to take a hard look in the mirror and find a way to correct their attitude. Life isn't fair for anyone, make the most of what you have when you have it, and find a plan b on your off time if you believe it won't last. Trump lied to you, get over it.
28
Has anyone considered that they might be using up their PTO ahead of losing it all when the plant closes? The days of severance, extended medical, compensated unused time off and being eased into unemployment are long gone
20
What “off-time”? With a 6-day work week and mandatory overtime, I imagine they only have time to collapse before dragging themselves back to their assembly line.
4
It sounds like Putin's playbook. Donald and his buddies get rich and the rest eats the crumbs and stale left overs. This man has infinite and boundless greed.
10
Your headline is a lame attempt to blame Trump into this current situation at Carrier. The company needs to do more to help ease concerns about further job cuts, but these employees need to be happy with what they have. The days of $45/hr union jobs are done, priced out of the market. Semi skilled labor should be thrilled with $25/hr.
9
@Midwest Josh LOL. The company needs to "ease concerns?" They have no intention of staying. They got a huge tax break just to stay and when that runs out they'll leave. And before you say someone should be "happy" with a particular wage, I suggest you live on it.
7
The headline isn’t a lame attack on Trump - it is a scene setting description to frame the content of the article, which it does well. Trump cut a deal to save the factory albeit wth 600 odd job losses and morale has continued to drop. Neither the article nor the headline blame Trump. It is however, an insight into how the workers feel today.
1
“Are there no poorhouses?”
1
Some commenters are asking, “Why don’t those employees show up?”
The answer is simple. They are giving to the company the same amount of loyalty that the company shows to its employees.
The rest is, as the rabbi said, commentary.
25
“Standing on her feet for the entire shift, Ms. Hargrove inserts tweezer-like strips of metal thousands of times a day into a tube that forms part of the heat exchanger in each furnace.”
Frankly I am amazed this isn’t automated yet. And regardless of hourly wage, I’d be bored out of my skull doing that. A great advertisement for getting an education if you can.
I sincerely wish these folks the best run they can make. I can empathize with feeling over-hanging the workers, like waiting for the other shoe to drop, but not quite knowing when. We have similar in high tech, too, reorgs that shuffle us into projects that anyone could do. Then later in the summer, layoffs. Same thing, year after year, different groups each time until your group is axed.
18
@historyRepeated. Yet I just saw Trumpsters on TV telling HS grads not to go to college. Why take on all that debt when you can work in a factory they said. Yet, they all had degrees and are making big bucks in a cushy job as a talking head pushing Trump's agenda
The company is worth $88 billion, but the won't give their employees a full KFC dinner for Christmas? (KFC! Woo-hoo!) And many employees working 60-hour weeks, with the spectre of the plant closing and moving to Mexico. Yep, they have a morale problem. But, hey, maybe Trump will swoop in and give the company some more tax credits. Yeah, he's the working person's hero.
42
@Nova yos Galan
Pence, as governor of IN, gave Carrier the tax cuts. Perhaps paving the way for him to move to the right hand of trump.
5
Wait. They get to keep their job but now they don't want to come in because they don't feel warm and cushy?
Where is that warm, cushy job where my future is guaranteed?
Get it in your heads, America is a business, not a country. In business we don't care for the sick, the poor, the elderly, your pensions, your future, or especially, the depressed.
It's called work, Carrier. If it were fun, it would be called vacation.
19
No, America is a country—founded on principles of equality and justice, not just making a profit. Anyone who works in manufacturing 6 days a week with mandatory overtime doesn’t expect “warm and cushy” (what a stupid phrase); I’m sure they’d settle for fair and humane.
So the employees were told, in advance of any announcements to relocate, basically as a warning, that the Mexican work force was missing fewer days than the American work force and yet absenteeism is a problem?
You reap what you sow.
16
Morale is low with the majority of us Americans who did not vote for this so called president as well.
43
@PB
People need to find somethIng useful to do beside complain about Trump.
If Carrier had a policy of paying for unused sick leave when these employees are laid off maybe they wouldn't have such a problem with absenteeism.
12
And are those coal mining jobs back yet?
25
"....for many of his supporters, the episode was proof that the incoming president would revive Rust Belt fortunes by sheer force of personality."
And I suppose the delusional Traitor Trump mob will still support his lackeys.
Better not buy a Carrier air conditioner. The assembly line reminds me of the auto assembly lines in the U.K. during the 1960s: the cars would roll out, and the bumpers would fall off.
14
Article depicting Working Class alienation mirroring Charlie Chaplin's seminal "Modern Times". Cutthroat workers ratting out fellow workers reminding me of Ralph Ellison's "Invisible Man" heroic main character receiving outright hostility instead of solidarity from company rats, brown nosed malcontents.
3
The jobs these people aren't bothering to show up for sure aren't the ones that we keep hearing that immigrants are stealing. How would they like to harvest vegetables for few dollars an hour? Or clean toilets? Or scrub pans?
Or do manual labor for Donald Trump and get stiffed completely.
48
They voted for him.
41
Dear Carrier workers:
There are no "secure jobs" in America. Anywhere. The reporters writing this story are as much at risk for layoffs as anybody.
So welcome to the world we all live in. Somehow you avoided knowing this earlier (as steelworkers were laid off, and tech workers were laid off, and on and on). But now you see it.
Only the owners, the .001% of America, are safe from layoffs. And they just got a big tax cut so they're safer than ever.
Wake up and smell the coffee. Work hard while you can. And ask yourself why you're voting for Republicans.
667
@MaryC Just could not have said it better myself. We live in a time where people continue to vote against their best interests, and whine when things don't work out in the long run. It's sad that the workers in this article got duped, but it's hard for me to feel genuine empathy for them cause the majority will probably pull the lever for the GOP this November, and the GOP obviously doesn't care about them.
15
The communism you seem to be advocating would not be solving inherent structural problems either. If the plant is not competitive, it will close sooner or later.
After reading this story, I looks sooner rather than later to me.
2
Are you kidding? This didn't begin with steelworkers or high tech. They closed hundreds of mills in New England that supported entire towns, completely crushing them without giving it a second thought. But since those states are now disparaged as the "coastal elite" you'll never hear about it.
7
In many jobs now, worker productivity has increased but salaries are stagnant or decreasing. Poor work conditions prevail. Loyalty from the companies is lost.
One question that measures attitude is "Do you think your boss deserves a gigantic tax cut?" When CEOs, stock holders, and senior staff make fortunes, while the workers (in almost any field, including white collar professional ones) work hard and get little, including job satisfaction, of course they aren't happy.
10
I don’t like my job and feel under appreciated and underpaid. I still show up everyday because a job is better than no job and a small check is better than no check.
What do the Carrier employees think will be there for them when the company automates their jobs? Better earn something while you can.
18
The only way to guarantee your job is to work for yourself. I took free business classes through the SBA 13 years ago and started a printing business. I worked hard, 13 hours a day, for several years but today l make six figures and will be able to retire in three more years. I could have never done that working for someone else.
18
How dare these blue collar workers not appreciate the 2 trillion tax cut for the rich.
Don’t they know that this is what makes America great again?
They should all contribute to the Trump 2020 campaign.
Unless of course they are getting so tired of winning that they don’t want to win no more.
75
First, I had to Google "Carrier Furnace" to find out what they were. Remember, this is a country where central heating is virtually non-existent.
But anyway, for how long are these "low wage" developing countries that these companies want to move to, going to remain low wage? Sooner or later (probably sooner), those people will demand higher wages to keep up with the developed world - be able to afford their cars, go on overseas holidays, afford decent houses, etc etc.
Consider post-war Japan: low wages in the first ten years and producing cheap products. Look at Japan now. Same with South Korea. China is not too far behind now.
No point in U.S. firms making products in low wage countries if people back home can't afford them, because they are either unemployed or on low wage temporary or part-time jobs.
17
Reading through these comments, I am appalled at the lack of empathy stemming from many of my fellow liberals. I am 100% opposed to Donald Trump and the corrupt administration that has allowed him to destroy America’s standing.
I am a native Hoosier and I have family who works at Carrier in Plainfield. To the people in this thread blaming the Carrier employees for feeling low morale, I wonder how you would feel if the shoe was on the other foot. For people born and raised in Indiana, there are very few good paying jobs. I myself bounced around tending bar for nearly 17 years. I have a college education but when the economy was at its lowest bartending for $2 an hour plus tips was better than nothing. Since nobody had a job, there were many days when I would work 12-14 hours a day and make $40 in tips. Poverty is cyclical. It took me 8 years to save enough money to move to NYC and begin my career. I was very lucky.
These factory workers are not as lucky. They have spouses and children, a mortgage and a government who works against them. For these people, Trump promised a chance to keep their jobs and keep a roof over their heads. But the trust between the executives and factory workers was shattered. Trump lied - but they didn’t have much to lose by voting for him. As Democrats, we must cast aside our bitterness and be the better people. America cannot progress unless we all work together to find solutions that give everyone a chance for a better life.
44
I have a great deal of sympathy for them. But you are wrong that they had nothing to lose by voting for Trump. They are some of the last unionized workers in America. Republican judges and lawmakers are successfully gutting unions and worker protections. Republicans are gutting what remains of Obamacare, which these folks will need more than ever when the last union jobs disappear. Republicans have mortgaged their financial future so that the rich (and their employers) can reap massive tax breaks.
51
@Lightning McQueen
Companies worth billions of dollars make rich people richer. They will never care about the well-being of their workers unless they are forced to do it. Unions and Democrats, that's who cares about workers.
Who profits from United Technologies? Is it possible that Trump and others make governmental decisions based on their own pockets? Trump has not dared to disclose his finances. Why is that? Follow the money and find out who he really cares about.
4
I agree with you that a vote for Trump would negatively impact unionized workers. My argument is that the people working at Carrier’s factories voted emotionally rather than rationally. They were specifically told, that the factory was going to be shut down by their executives. When the other factory work in your community pays substantially less than your current salary you begin to feel helpless. Donald Trump promised he could save their jobs. If you are already going to lose your job, you begin to feel that you do not have much to lose by voting for Trump. We cannot blame people for how they voted. Rather, we as Democrats must understand what the mindset and hardships of rural, working class white voters are in order to craft a concise message that speaks to them.
1
If I didn’t show up to work I’d get fired. This is a self-fulfilling prophecy I’m sure will get blamed on management. Get to work!
11
Wait...these well-paid, high-school educated factory workers are upset that their jobs may not be permanent? So there not coming in to work? Do I have that right?
Seems to me each and every one of these workers should be taking all the overtime being offered and save as much as they possibly can so if and when the plant does close down, they'll have some cash to tide them over.
Just saying this behavior of skipping work makes absolutely no sense. Nobody is owed a job. And sometimes bad things (plant closings) do happen to good people. But don't go looking for ways to fail.
34
What did you expect? DJT has never done what is right to save industry in this country unless he had a personal stake.
Indiana or elsewhere will suffer from his policies.
Wake up America, this man is a disaster for all of us except for those who are wealthy enough to ride out the economic disasters this individual has initiated and should take credit for.
22
This is just bizarre! They have a job with benefits today. Why are they letting possible layoffs tomorrow psyche them into laying themselves off today? Surely they should be trying to make everything they can while the job is still there. Plenty of time to sleep late if and when the job is lost. What is the company supposed to do? Hire a psychologist to help workers explore their inner happiness? If immigrants had those jobs they would be showing up for work and if the factory moved the Mexicans would be showing up for work. These absentee workers are pretty much making the move to Mexico the only choice for the company. And who in any field is going to hire someone who never shows up for work?
38
I can empathize with these Carrier employees. I felt the same way waiting for the ax to fall throughout 1984 and 1985 after the AT&T break up. My job went to AT&T from the operating company Southern Bell. Competition was killing us because of incompetent management who had no idea how to work in an environment where profitability was guaranteed. Infighting between sales and manufacturing led to the demise of the Western Electric Company and sales would only sell the products with the highest commissions. Meanwhile we were losing the communications products customers who were the bread and butter of the company and the source of work for technicians like myself. Sales was shortsighted in not realizing that this was a loyal customer base that would be the source of up sales. In addition we had brought over a huge number of old employees who wouldn't hustle to please a customer and who let orders slip so they could be dumped on the young employees.
Month after month the layoffs continued until it finally caught up to me with over 16 years with the company. Honestly I felt relief when I found out it was over for me. After almost two years of tension I could relax. Then some managers decided to find ways to fire people so they couldn't get their severance pay and the tension was back.
I walked out that last day feeling great. I stopped at Bennigans for lunch and a drink and went home to start working at my new business which I had spent the last few months setting up.
17
This article is kind of a Rorschach test for conservatives and liberals.
A conservative thinks "if the employees don't like what's expected of them they are free to find another job; until that time, show up to work". Conservatives also chalk up the absenteeism to personal choices made by the employees along the lines of "I'd rather not go to work today, so what the heck, I won't go. My union will protect me." On the other hand, Conservatives don't think enough about the failings of management.
Conversely, liberals give the workers a free pass without second thought and would never dare judge the choices the absentee workers make. It's just not a liberal's business to judge any individual's decision. However, it's a liberal reflex to automatically assume management is a collection of caricatures from Monopoly who go through life with callous disregard for people and only care about profits.
Like most things in life, I'm pretty sure reality lies somewhere in between these views.
13
@Ryan Why do you think the truth lies somewhere in between? What is Carrier doing laying off a bunch of people then overworking the remaining employees?
3
@Ryan Very well said.
However, I'm a liberal, and I have to say that not showing up for work because you're anxious or depressed over the prospect of losing your job at some future date is, quite literally, counterproductive.
Talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy.
There are very few jobs in any sector that are truly stable and well paying. College degree? Get serious. This country throws away people with Ph.Ds, master's degrees, language skills and specific experience and training. Corporate America treats human beings as disposable parts, less important that a new piece of machinery or technology that promises, potentially, to save money and provide higher profits.
If someone wants to have the opportunity at a well paying, lifelong job, they should investigate various fields and see where someone who is not a "star" can top out in the range of 100K to 200K per year. Most people kind of drift into jobs, doing something like what their parents did or following a friend or neighbor into a field without considering where it might lead or what the upside might be.
There will always be a need for well trained, disciplined people (like those who show up for work) who bring intelligence and dedication to the task at hand. If work is just something that bothers you between the times you get to enjoy yourself, you are not likely to get anywhere. Construction and related fields are areas where experience really counts and those who know what they want and will work to get it have an excellent chance to excel.
The days are over when you could go to work expecting to stay there for 30 to 40 yrs. Change is constant. College just shows you know how to show up and take tests. Specific skills and experience count for more in any field.
18
The fear employees have about children who will never become pediatricians or that a medical crisis may bankrupt their family is exactly the issues Democrats should trumpet, because Republicans have always wanted to throw the old, poor, and middle class on the trash heap like wrinkled rinds since the days of FDR. Civilization was never free as Republican proved with their tax cut that may hobble our great nation with debt for decades.
48
I appreciate that the reporter went to Indiana to check about the plant.
But instead of seeing it through anti-Trump glass, he could have asked about why workers don't turn up. I am surprised that exhaustion is only mentioned in passing, which means only really desperate people would still want to work there. Which is what the people you interviewed are.
Carrier is determined to close the plant and will close however sincere you work. We all know this script.
If it is true that Carrier wants to close the plant citing absenteeism, then Carrier will do everything to discourage people to turn up to work.
Eventually some of these people will also stop. After all, for how much longer can a person put up with bad behaviour?
I wish Mr. Maynard's daughter success and hope she becomes a fine pediatrician.
And you still expect me tow
12
I thought it was a well-balanced story. It helped me to see all sides. The reporter didn’t show an anti-Trump bias. I suspect you read that into it.
5
Coming to this wonderful country as a young woman in 1970 with my American husband, I realized very early on that I wanted more education to add on to the one I had received in Europe. I was driving 52 x 2 miles every day, on country roads, not highways, to the nearest University to earn an American degree. In between, I was working at the University's placement center, took care of my family and was permanently exhausted for several years - this was called deferred gratification - according to one of my professors. America's junior colleges are wonderful for acquiring new skills. It is not easy, but it is a better choice than watching TV all of the time and getting upset about this or that.
31
@Gaby Franze
You had a husband who supported you?
I don't think these people can go to a junior college after a 60-hour work week.
1
Trump temporarily kept this factory in the US with bluster and a tax credit, but he’s done nothing to help strengthen US competitiveness...So, these workers should expect that their jobs will eventually go to Mexico.
23
"At 56, he has returned to school to earn a certificate as a technician for heating and cooling equipment. The course is being paid for by a federal program called Trade Adjustment Assistance, which helps workers, businesses and farmers who can show they’ve been hurt economically by imports.
'I’ve never had an opportunity to go to school for free,' he said. Mr. Williams is upbeat about his prospects, and unlike many Carrier workers, he bears no ill will toward the company.'" Sir, I would like to point out that your schooling is not free, it is subsidized by tax payer dollars, most likely Blue State tax payer dollars, not Red State ones. I encourage you to check out the Democratic Party's website for what we are trying to do to help everyone in this country have good wages, health benefits, and bring back a sense of pride in a hard day's work. Voting GOP has only hurts your state and encouraged companies like yours to move out of the country.
179
By the time a big company announces big moves to it’s employees it’s usually beyond discussion. I would not be surprised if the management is not unhappy with the slowdowns and work-stoppages, now. It would justify making the changes they planned earlier. In any case, these absences were likely predictable and because of the greatly reduced labor force, so when the deal was made with Trump, Carrier likely expected what is going on now. I think that Carrier never expected to do anything else than what they had announced before meeting with Trump.
20
This reminds me of that old poster:
If things don't start improving soon, I may have to ask you to stop helping me.
10
I think you will find that lack of trust of the board of trustees (who work through management) and the employees contributes to the low morale.
4
Their jobs were spared, they make one-third more than peers in similar jobs, but they’re depressed and don’t want to go to work?
Womp womp.
Send their jobs to Mexico, where their hard-working people will appreciate the jobs.
33
I for one would not buy a Carrier furnace; clearly not a product made with pride. Unless I can confirm that it was made in Mexico, no doubt by hard working people who feel fortunate to be employed.
20
Carrier is a perfect example of what happens when a president does not inspire confidence. His negative smarmy attitude and tweets are so low, no wonder morale across the country is deflated. Wages are stagnant, the rich are siphoning off the wealth and get huge tax breaks. What's the blue collar and middle class supposed to be proud of? Nothing. And not enough support to inspire them.
25
Mandatory 60 hour work weeks? Just because someone feels you owe their job to them technically is not the same as slave ownership even if just so happens it looks that way in real life these days.
10
This is because of bad management at the top and the owners.
13
"The worker's best protection against this purpose is to have a business and tax environment, (laws,) which induce managements to consider their employees as a critical need."
Rubbish!
The worker's best protection is a strong labor union.
No one will look out for the best interests of the worker than the brother/sisterhood of fellow workers.
Period.
44
So as it turns out, America is no longer the world's workshop because Americans don't actually want to work in factories?
And here I thought it was all Germany's fault.
7
I hate to break it to you, NYT, but absenteeism, low morale and lack of work ethics are present in many work places, both blue-collar and white-collar. And, this has been going on for quite some time, well before Trump became president. I highly doubt that the high absenteeism at Carrier just started when they first announced they were moving to Mexico, nor do I think that it is because the workers do not trust Carrier, as your article suggests. Do some more digging.
17
Put a tariff on Carrier products made outside the country. All of them. Ditto for every other fake US company. If the company splits it's manufacturing put a tariff on the parts assembled in other countries. Let Mexican workers buy Mexican manufactured Carrier products.
4
That won't stop them from moving there. We are not the only consumer market. It will just raise the price of the product for Americans while the product will be cheaper everywhere else.
3
For folks beset by economic anxiety, they sure don't seem to have trouble producing children they can't afford.
17
@Blair
And probably don’t really want.
2
My thought exactly. This couple has at least 3 kids (not sure if the young woman in the photo is the one who wants to become a pediatrician) on one low salary
This is the beginning of disillusionment and even heartbreak for many 9f his supporters. His notorious question, "What do you have you lose?" He demonstrates daily that the loss is profound.
14
When will blue collar white workers catch on and realize who is really on their side. It ain’t trump and the republicans.
50
No sympathy what so ever for these people. They unleashed Pence, supported Trump and then gave him a bullhorn with this fake Carrier deal and supposed taxcut.
Elections have consequences and sadly these people will suffer the consequences.
Time for the rust and bible belt of the US of A to wake up.
28
Donald doesn’t understand profit and loss statements, despite his claim that he graduated from the Wharton School. Has the Washington Post fact checker actually verified that one for us? Because it is getting a little hard to believe, given his economic policies. Maybe he finished at the bottom of his class.
Anyway, saving these jobs was always a fantasy, just like everything else—a photo op. Donald thought that was the sum total of the presidency. Fly off on Air Force 1, descend, salute, tour, make a pronouncement, problem solved.
6
I'm not surprised. For most people, these jobs are boring. The work itself is not challenging and requires no creativity. You see the same people every day. Even in fast-food or a retail job at the mall, you might run into an old friend from high school and have a nice chat, or see a cute girl or cute guy. (I worked an assembly line job in high school and remember how the guys would always perk up when a new girl got a job there.)
Most people think they are better than assembly line work, and they are. But once you get started at a job like that, I think it can be hard to get out, simply because of the monotony. You don't see anything else, so you think there's nothing else, and even if there were, you wouldn't know how to get there.
8
Lets understand something...Business is business. That is all.....But is it?
I work for as small, family owned Automotive Parts distributor. I get paid on straight commission. I sell this much, I get that much. My Company has a VERY good health plan because my owner cherishes his employees. He knows, without them, he is nothing, he has nothing.
This is what is missing in American business today.
Btw..my wife and I each make $62,000+ a year in this Company. We work every other Saturday. We each have 21 days of vacation time off plus 5 days of sick leave, plus New years Day, Memorial Day, July 4th, Labor Day, Thanksgiving, and Xmas Day off. Very rarely does anyone take time off because they "don't feel it"
This is why our company flourishes. Because the boss cares...Because we support one another. If someone needs coverage...we step up. No questions asked....The rule is "I cover for you, you cover for me"
If big corporations would understand that without their "people", they would have nothing...well....
46
@Duke Mike Gulf My Dad ran a successful Company for 50 years.
His favorite adage was "First take care of your Customers, then your Employees and then take care of yourself."
3
That's the way it is with strongmen, see Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez and now Donald Trump.
They think they are smarter than everyone else, and they think they are smarter than they really are themselves, so they begin to micromanage and interfere in the economy. Next thing you know, the situation is much worse than before.
Strongman methods beget strongman outcomes!
17
“The Bible says an honest day’s work for an honest day’s pay, and I try to live by that.”
If that's true, then why did you vote for a guy who never worked an honest day in his life? When your plant automates or closes, what do you think Trump is going to be doing? He's going to be laughing his behind off at Mar-a-Lago. Playing golf, and eating a single meal that costs more than you make in a month. That's Donald Trump's idea of "loyalty".
Trump played you people, and he still is. Don't worry though, when your on the unemployment line, you'll have plenty of people to keep you company. People who all made the same mistake as you.
Not only is Trump not your friend, he couldn't care less about you, or your coworkers. You simply served a purpose for a few weeks as something he could use for his own political benefit. Now, you're worthless to him. Live and learn. Hopefully.
40
@Chicago Guy,
Have you seen the footage of his Rallies? Those people are brainwashed and full of hate and rage. They hang on his every word like he is their Messiah, They go forth spewing hatred for CNN and "fake news" and chants of "lock her up" and "build that Wall". They haven't learned anything.
For the younger generation a move to California might be just the thing. The future is there/here. The mid-west is dying. Another thing I would say is not to get married until your about 30 years old. Don't have kids right away or never. Get some education under your belt. Enjoy life. Don't saddle yourself with debt. California is a state of mind unlike any other state in this country. Just by being in this wonderful state changes your outlook about life. About everything. Don't believe the right wing media that California is a din of iniquity. And the weather is pretty darn spectacular too. Sure it has it drawbacks but for all the naysayers California has been a magnet ever sense the gold rush of 1849. Hey, young people, come a grab a piece of the future. Be prepared to look at life differently after you'll lived here for a while. You will change.
10
I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I turn down high-tech jobs in California because even with a substantial pay raise, your housing prices make me net poorer. And, I have a nice house and land with trees, a big yard for my kids, seasons, and 20 minute commutes. But California is beautiful, and unlike any other place.
16
@Don
Be prepared to pay high rent to live here! Unless your skills will get you at least $40 an hour you may spend all of your time in beautiful California commuting from Manteca to the Bay Area.
2
@Don I'm sorry but I live in Calif and don't share your enthusiasm. Not only are housing prices out of this world but getting a college education is a lot more expensive than it used to be since prop 13 gutted the property tax. Californians may think themselves liberal, but don't raise their taxes for ANY reason. Commuting most places is a nightmare with no fix in sight. And have you been reading about the wildfires?
5
I join all others in criticism of Trump and the con game he played with Carrier in early 2017. But that does not explain to me the opening premise of this article. Why---as claimed by the author---is there excessive absentism of some employees at Carrier? It's not as if the jobs are described as dangerous or starvation wages. Instead, the author relies on the opinions of other employees why a fellow employee might call in absent. Why not interview the absent employees and find out? Indeed, the author says he has been to the Carrier plant in Indiana several times; seemingly, plenty of time.
Yes, life is difficult, and alot of jobs are tenuous and not fun.
And living in Trump World only makes it worse. But it seems to me, if you have a job and nothing else on the horizon, show-up. I have no sympathy for these no-show workers. That is, if the author's premise is correct. Gee, sure wish the author would have interviewed some of these no-show employees sue sponte.
11
@Robert Plautz
There seems to be a contradiction. Didn't the article report that Carrier itself says there is not an absenteeism problem? And yet the article's premise is that the absenteeism problem is a symptom of bad morale. Doesn't Journalism 101 tell us that if it begs the question, answer it? Such a big inconsistency sure seems to be begging the question, NYT.
60 hours a week six day schedule with mandatory overtime??? This article should have started out with this abusive behavior by Carrier!
Instead of hiring more workers, Carrier is forcing workers into exhaustion!
I will not buy Carrier next time time. I’d rather buy foreign than buy from a slave master.
42
“It’s just not stable working in manufacturing. One day, the factory is going to go to another state or country.” Or, the job is going to a robot, which gets no sick leave, no vacation, no pension and doesn't have a morale problem.
Either way, Carrier, like all corporation "people," will do what it decides is best for its bottom-line, not your kitchen table: maximum profits, minimum expenses, loyalty to a board of directors, returns to stockholders, wealth to a CEO, gratuitous handouts to the remaining, but expendable human employees.
For those who thank God for the blessing to have a job (at least one for now), ask yourselves, Why God is so cruel as to bless you with a job you aren't happy doing and to curse so many others with no job at all, or jobs that keep them getting nowhere like rodents running on a wheel?
Carrier is staying in Indiana for now because it got a tax break that sweetened its profit margin. When that no longer satisfies the profit appetite of this totally emotionless, incompassionate corporate "person," it will pack its bags and move to Mexico where other clueless humans will become the blood-pumping slave-labor force Carrier needs to work alongside its taxpayer-subsidized, tax write-off robots.
Good luck Carrier's human employees. The future belongs to corporate "people," robots which can replace humans, humans educated enough to build and program the robots and for sure, the people God blessed with money to own corporate "people" and human people.
11
Monterrey, Mexico
I wonder if Carrier is experiencing the same problems with their much lowered paid employees at their new plant in Mexico. Hopefully the NYT can follow through, investigate and provide some comparisons.
It does beg the question, though, that if there are no such problems in Monterrey, why does the Trump Administration consider Mexicans to be bad people?
15
Sad but true, the English American school of management, look down on workers, demoralise the staff, over pay the paper shufflers and bean counters. Germans and Japanese don’t do that and the workers give back to the company in effort, morale and quality.
11
60 hours mandatory work is exhausting in a factory. Work is nonstop except for a 15 min break & 30 min for lunch is exhausting.
You can't expect people to be healthy under those circumstances. Why make it mandatory. Hire more people and commit to your workers.
If you are using your workers for the short term without real commitment, then that's another story. People on the production line aren't stupid. Stop assuming they are.
15
@Jane
For almost 16 years of my employment as a repair technician working for Ma Bell it was standard for many of us to work 23 hours a week or more of overtime. We also had to take a certain amount of call outs in the middle of the night. Three hours a night and they'd call you in on your scheduled day off. It was the consequence of working in a city with two major hospitals and an airport and other services.
The company would never have enough personnel because it was cheaper to pay overtime.
3
I do not care about the welfare of people who support this “president”. Live with the consequences of your actions and make a better choice next time.
13
"Her work is physically exhausting yet precise. Standing on her feet for the entire shift, Ms. Hargrove inserts tweezer-like strips of metal thousands of times a day into a tube that forms part of the heat exchanger in each furnace."
This job is SOOO ripe for robot automation. I hope no young person thinks that it or other such assembly-line tasks will still be around in another 20 years. Heck, it might not even last for the rest of Ms. Hargrove's career.
15
I can't imagine standing in one spot for 8 hours a day. Sounds like torture to me. I wonder why they can't sit to do it? Might make it a little more bearable.
7
An interesting follow-up to the hot story of early Trump days, but if absenteeism is a big problem, why didn’t the NYT find some of those who are absent and interview them (anonymously, of course)? That would have been so much more illuminating than the hand-wringing by present employees who show up for work or the speculations by labor union reps. I suspect that the causes might be the same, but hearing it from those who are taking matters in their own hands would have given the story more strength.
24
I guess the point is some of these people will get what they deserve when their jobs are outsourced, when they are not even willing to get to work on time?
3
What saved? Look at how things are at the factory now. Anything this guy touches turns sour!
9
@Majortrout New book released by Republican strategist Rick Wilson this week. "Everything Trump Touches Dies".
This article does touch a number of important issues, but skips over "...up to 60 hours a week with mandatory overtime, six days in a row" assertion before continuing with the shock that people are skipping out on work. Is that Mexican workers would bear that load, so should American workers? I'm not quite sure what to make of it, but I would assert that the author has not addressed this issue properly.
14
When assessing this article, perhaps we should keep in mind that the Trump administration wants to get rid of the Department of Labor (that is, a merger of the Departments of Education and Labor)
And what will be the result? Pushing people into for-profit career programs? Easing up on the enforcement of labor laws?
All we are getting under Trump is the implementation of the hard-right, super-conservative, Koch Brothers agenda. Not good for workers!
17
I see this all the time. I'm in manufacturing, for the Defense Department, and this kind of describes my experiences during the 1980s, when I started machining. But back then, drugs were the reason people were calling in sick, cocaine was King in the shops. Currently though, people get drug tested, although many have prescriptions for Opioid pain relievers. I don't know how much Carrier pays these people, maybe $20/hour (?), but I've worked with people making $30 /hour that couldn't reliably make it to work, much less work some OT. Myself, I will work all the overtime requested of me, "Momma needs a new Cadillac". And I remember what it's like to not have a job. I try not to take it for granted, it could all go up in smoke in an instant
15
I'm still stuck on the idea that these people think that $23.88 is 1) a lot of money per hour, and 2) that hourly pay makes them middle class. Corporations have blue collar workers believing their lies, that $23.88 is a middle class wage. If Carrier could pay them less, they would. These people sound like working 60 hours a week for $70,000 a year is a good thing. In reality it means that they have no life beyond making Carrier money. Carrier will close the plant, it's all about money for them, because our elected officials have created a corporate welfare system, where they get all the tax breaks at the expense of the tax payer, even the state of Indiana gave them another 7 million. There was once a time in this country when corporations had a social responsibility to this country and their employees.
These factory jobs are leaving, they won't come back, our educational system isn't training our children for the jobs of tomorrow, in fact government at all levels is stripping money out of education further draining the knowledge base needed for the high tech jobs of tomorrow. And Congress doesn't care, in fact they continue to incentivize corporations to move out of the US via tax breaks, what they should do, is tax them FOR MOVING OUT, giving them tax breaks only if they keep manufacturing in the US. As long as there is cheap labor in labor friendly countries this problem will get worse, and no president or candidate for president can stop it, most are culpable.
23
@James Young
And the other thing they need to do is stop using shareholder value as the only measure of the success of a company. Everything - jobs, research and development, product quality - is sacrificed in pursuing an increase in the quarterly stock price!
14
Sure, I fully expect the plant to close. Must of us realized that from the beginning. Those who are getting depressed about it and letting it ruin their jobs need to either quit or go to work and ride out the job as long as it lasts. Seriously, those are the only two options. Can't deal with it? Step aside, there're plenty of people who want to have your job.
And on a side note, I'd love to know how the woman in the first photo can do her job with a cellphone in her hand? In 43 years of working I've never had a job that didn't require both hands and my eyes on the job.
14
@Gene I thought that at first. Phone is in her hand because an international criminal is visiting the factory, and she wanted to get a photo.
3
@Gene She's obviously using it to take pictures of Trump, who is standing right in front of her. Wouldn't you?
Carrier workers are learning what all American banks learned about Trump in the 1980's: You cannot trust Trump to follow through on his promises. He declared bankruptcy 6 times and stiffed every financial institution in order to get out of his financial responsibilities.
Just like President Obama warned during the campaign of 2016, "Donald Trump spent 70 years of his life only caring about himself. And now he's going to be YOUR champion? Come on man!" Too bad the voters at Carrier and the Rust Belt at large didn't heed the warning.
60
Ah, the irony. The old joke on the Soviet economy went, "They pretend to pay us and we pretend to work." Sounds like it applies to Carrier, Inc. in Indianapolis, too.
23
I wonder how much of these absences are related to opioid abuse. Some of these over-worked Carrier employees may be popping pain pills to keep going, or unable to work without them, or caring for family members with serious drug problems. Not an excuse, but maybe a factor?
http://www.ibrc.indiana.edu/ibr/2017/outlook/opioid.html
19
Six days a week...60 hours mandatory? The scheme by Carrier is obvious. Work the employees to death. When they fail to show, out of sheer exhaustion, claim that the plant is antiquated, close it and move it to Mexico.
If this exemplifies what Trump needs to make America great again, no thanks. When was the last time he worked 60 hours a week? Indeed...even Forty?
70
@Tom Q
If you worked for Carrier in 2000, and you made 23.88 an hour, adjusting for inflation, that's equivalent to $29.04 today. Here's what Carrier paid employees in 2000, $23.88 is the overtime rate. $20.49 was the highest straight time pay.
https://www.nalc.org/news/research-and-economics/body/paychart0901.pdf
Carrier employees making $23.88 today, are being shorted $5.16 per-hour. Sad.
5
The comment from Carrier that there wasn’t an absenteeism problem was telling. It isn’t a problem if your trying to create the condition.
6
Companies and their CEO's are driven by only one basic purpose!
Be profitable on a quarterly basis and keep the stock value rising.
Employees are a necessary tool to be used, no different from any piece of machinery. The worker's best protection against this purpose is to have a business and tax environment, (laws,) which induce managements to consider their employees as a critical need.
Most national and state legislators, mostly Republicans, elected by these same employees, could easily require companies to be fairer to their workers. However, politicions are dependent on donations, and our lawmakers function at the direction of their funding sources. The citizens who elected them are conned and lied to!
The first step is to stop electing these pro-management, bought and paid for Republicans, their megalomaniac unhinged President, and change our laws to provide business incentives to companies who raise the status of working people.
When a few hundred people control the assets of our economy, something is seriously wrong!
26
@Wilson Woods
In 2000, Carrier didn't even pay $23.88 an hour the highest pay was $20.77. If you adjust the $23.88 for inflation they should be getting paid $29.05.
It's funny how these Republicans are so interested to make sure that their rich friends, get to adjust for inflation their capital gains tax. Meaning they will pay a lower capital gain tax, because they will be able to adjust their initial stock purchase to inflation. But they don't seem to care that a Carrier employee to get to that $70,000 middle class income they have to work more than 60 hours a week, and their pay isn't adjusted for inflation.
You're right something is seriously wrong. An example, is, Rep Christoper Collins, who was arrested yesterday for securities fraud, he not only sits on the committee that oversees the healthcare industry, he also sits on the board of said company. While at some White House picnic he gets a phone call, from another board member, saying the MS drug failed clinical tests. He promptly calls his son and tells him to sell his stake, his son passes on the inside info BEFORE it becomes public, saving himself, from taking a 700K loss, then dad, and son lie to the FBI. Many Republicans, including Tom Price owned a substantial stake in the company. These people are enriching themselves at our expense. They are rigging the system in their favor, because that's how a plutocracy works.
6
@Wilson Woods
When will the working people of this country wake up and realize that Republicans are not their friends?
5
@Nova yos Galan
The best lesson is to experience real personal pain and to finally realize that they have been conned into supporting Trump and his group of liars.
Toddlers usually don't listen to warnings about touching a hot stove but one experience of actually feeling the pain gets the idea into their heads!
Trump delivered exactly what we elected him to do: way more profits for company executives and stock holders. America is great again because the top 2% now have even more money.
14
The 2% have taken all the money, not a penny for the worker!
6
Human beings are always making inferences: "The sky is darkening, I better bring my umbrella." Such inferences are not always reliable, but in the case of the workers at the Carrier plant, they probably are. They know that the intervention of President Trump kept management from moving the plant to Mexico last year. But economic conditions in Mexico and the U.S. have not changed very much. The workers know that wages for doing the same work are lower in Mexico, and they infer that Carrier will eventually shut down the plant and move it to Mexico or another country where workers get lower wages.
Why, they ask themselves, should I work hard for a company that won't in the end be loyal to me? The fact that they are paid good wages may keep them from quitting and looking for other jobs, but they will not put their hearts into the jobs they have with Carrier.
8
Why work for a company that is going to move to Mexico? Would it be smart to try to get ahead while you still have a job? Work all the overtime? Get a pad going for when the company decides they're tired of the employees dragging their feet? Being down 27% on their production (800 completed Air Conditioners when normal production is 1100? Should have put out 1200 and made a Christmas bonus a sure thing), is a pretty poor record, if they consistently don't meet normal production schedules, why should the company even bother to stay? Pass some laws, get some H2B workers, I'll bet that THEY can beat the quota.
When unemployment is low, employers cannot find workers, some workers will only show up when they need the money. Union or not, if fired, it's easy to find another job. Workers are in demand, employers cannot afford to be choosy.
2
This makes me sad. I oppose Trump and Pence on just about everything, and always thought the Carrier deal was going to be a bait-and-switch. I was right.
But they did manage to keep the factory open and save some jobs. Those not showing up are not only hurting themselves, but all of their coworkers who rely on those jobs.
I hope they realize this before it’s too late and the factory does shutdown permanently.
9
Hopefully this article will generate enough political noise for the President to call up Carrier's CEO and have a nice chat about the working conditions and future of the employees. The President always likes a good sound bite and photo-op. Did the President really care about the employees in Indianapolis the first time around? Maybe he just wanted something to dominate the news cycle for a day.
He could declare A.C. a national security priority. His policies are making the globe hotter faster (temperature-wise and temperament-wise). Slap some tariffs on A.C. units coming in from foreign sources. That seems to be the only solution your team has come up with. RAW
4
Mr. Trump, where are you now? Gonna fix the problem?
Mr. Pence, this is your state. What are you doing now?
Agree. $86,000 salary in an area where the median house value is under $110,000 and they're whining the blues. Yet here in NY college graduates earn $75,000 in jobs with no security and home values $450,000 and up.
28
The only person in the article who got the 86,000 salary is a higher paid group leader and is definitely not whining.
Note you are comparing a college graduate with no experience and likely a 40 hour a week desk job to an manual worker who is not only experienced but is also working 60 hours every week and who has just as much job insecurity as that college grad.
This article, about high rates of absenteeism, leaves a trail of unanswered questions, forcing readers to try and fill in the blanks—far too many to justify its publication.
Is management making it hard for employees to come to work? Are workers abusing benefits? Are working conditions terrible? Does the union benefits package prevent management from addressing habitually absent workers? Is the absentee rate attributable to a small subset of workers? Has Carrier retained a cadre of on-call temporary workers to fill in for the clearly predictable no shows? Is Carrier facilitating absenteeism in order to justify a plant closure?
42
@Alan... All great questions. However, you can't expect any nuance in a piece like this. Clearly the writer went to Carrier with an objective to find something negative to write about Trump. Once he found something plausible his work was done. He wrote the piece and said "see ya later", never to think about this situation or the people again.
During the "negotiations" to keep the Indianapolis Carrier plant open, did Trump, Pence, or any of their minions consider the impact of Carrier laying off half of its employees? Did no one ask what sort of working conditions might result for the remaining employees?
17
I have never worked a job where unlimited absenteeism was allowed. What kind of union package do they have that allows this?
12
@dt
"I have never worked a job where unlimited absenteeism was allowed. What kind of union package do they have that allows this?"
They don't. The unemployment rate there is so low that if Carrier fired workers for absenteeism Carrier would be worse off due to the problem finding replacements. Whether worker absenteeism is creating a self-fulfilling prophecy of moving production to Mexico is a possibility.
11
@dt
If you read the article, you would have noted that Carrier management denies there's an absenteeism problem. I wouldn't go union bashing without getting some more facts. This was a poorly written article that offered contradictory stories. One has to wonder, though, if halving the workforce as was done despite Trump's "heroics"might have had something to do with the reported poor morale.
1
@Dave
Please remember that management denied there was an absenteeism problem. Either management was lying or there is something rotten with this story.
Keeping a worker in her feet twelve hours a day wouldn't happen in Europe or much is China. It's abusive, third world, labor conditions. And it's not necessary. It is deliberately done to damage the worker because the leg valves can't take that much standing. if the company were held to the labor standards of the 1920s they would be in court for causing injuries to their workers.
32
Wow. This article makes me so angry. I am a financial services worker in NYC. Given my cost of living, I have a middle class life. I drag myself out of bed early each day and head down to fight the hunger games subway fight. 30 minutes later, I am at work. I do not see the sun except in the summer. I miss huge chunks of family life. And yet union workers in Indanapolis call me the elite. They should get out of bed and go to work like the rest of us. We the high tax people are paying for you to stay home and stories like this increase our resentment.Especially when we are at risk each day of layoffs. It makes me think ya'll just lazy and criticize us because it helps you obfuscate. And when the plant is closed you will blame us.
73
The Carrier employees work an average of 10 hours a day 6 days a week. Overtime is forced. To retain sanity and health, some breaks—absences—are needed. That is not laziness, that is necessity.
5
@Catie
Why attack union workers? Everyone should have better working conditions, including you. It's Carrier and your employer that are making lives difficult.
6
@Catie
Is your work physically demanding and mind numbing? Or do you sit at a desk and crunch numbers? Could you work ten hour days six days a week while standing the whole time and making repetitive actions? And how do you know what commuting time these people have? Maybe it is on a freeway with bumper to bumper traffic and maybe it takes an hour each way. And you get to live in a vibrant place like NYC. Cry me a river. Bet you buy everything from Amazon to save money and don't worry a bit about how little those warehouse workers are paid or the people in third world countries who make the products are paid.
So the Carrier workers are sad about their jobs. It's just not as much fun as it used to be, so they don't show up for work. Nice. I would guess 50% of the workers in white collar jobs feel the same way. It's just not fun pushing paper around. But for the most part, people show up for work. That's the deal. If someone gives you a job, you're supposed to show up and do the job as best you can. If you no longer have fun, no longer feel fulfilled, go find another job - or stop eating. I can't help but wonder if these workers have accumulated weeks upon weeks of sick leave that they are determined to use. Sick leave is exactly that - for when you or a family member is sick. So all this absenteeism likely will cause Carrier to rethink maintaining the Indiana location, which in turn will cause all these absentee-workers to file for unemployment insurance - at the ultimate expense of their fellow Indiana residents and businesses.
17
To some, Making America great again meant a return to 1950's America. It does not seem that the tax cuts for billionaires and large corporations are trickling down to the Carrier employees.
What could help lower skilled, low paid employees, is a higher minimum wage, access to skills training, access to affordable health care, all things the republicans are against.
31
@Joseph B
A return to 1950's America would mean "The top federal income tax rate was 91 percent in 1950 and 1951, and between 1954 and 1959. In 1952 and 1953, the top federal income tax rate was 92 percent."
The Republicans would never permit that. MAGA.
7
@Ravenna
Now we have a Republican president who has boasted that there have been years where he didn't pay any taxes at all. Another billionaire, Warren Buffet, says his taxes are less than his secretary's, in proportion to their respective earnings. The people who can afford the most sure don't pay the most.
1
That mandatory overtime, six day week, doesn't mean they are seeing real absenteeism. The company doesn't want to pay for benefits for more full-time employees so it is riding roughshod over the employees it has.
75
The Times really buried the lede on this one, revealing the factory laid off half the workers (only mentions jobs 'saved' and no number for how many were laid off) and made the workers who remained work 60 hour, 6-day work weeks all summer. Since when is refusing to work a 10 hour shift on a Saturday in July referred to as "absenteeism"? Who would want to live such a junk non-life for a measly $20 an hour? Do they really think that every member of their downsized teams can handle that schedule with no exceptions or extra incentives? At least bankers and lawyers get well paid to work their lives away, and in relative comfort.
The workers should strike and people should boycott Carrier. Trump voters should hold Trump accountable to punish the company for manufacturing in Mexico and treating it's workers so poorly. Workers can not be viewed as so expendable.
54
@Andrew I agree. Why would the NYtimes minimize the main message here, that workers are being overworked, then criticized when they tire of the ridiculous schedules they must keep.
As for complaining about Trump. Obama didn't do anything for US workers. Bush or Clinton either. The facts are that since the manufacturing unions were gutted it has always been more profitable for a supposedly US brand to buy stuff from outside the US and retail it using a good old US brand-name. All kinds of esoteric import permitting was used to keep the import business firmly in the hands of the mega corporations and has denied independent citizens a chance to make money on these special deals. It has become so bad that if you buy a Japanese brand the odds are better that it's made in the US.
5
That is true, largely, other than the auto manufacturer bail-out (the only part of the bail-out that wasn’t paid back - with interest). And, to the extent that democrats have had policies, they’ve been to ease the transition to new forms of livelihood, which is clearly something folks in that part of the country are not interested in, based on appearances.
But they didn’t claim to have saved the jobs, and were not supported by people who claimed they did.
This is just another example of the untruths in which this administration is based.
11
@Analyst At least give Obama credit for bailing out the auto workers! Remember that Michigan and Detroit could easily have fared even worse in the last Recession if Obama hadn't intervened.
29
The difference is that Trump is the one who is falsely claiming to the blue collar workers that he will save their jobs.
The worst example is coal mining. Coal mining will never make a recovery in the U.S. It's (morally) wrong to give coal miners false expectations rather than providing training to find another career. The steel industry is another example.
There are a number of manufacturing jobs that are lost forever.
It's not simply U.S. brands buying products from overseas, but shifting their manufacturing overseas.
13
What I thinks is most stunning about this story, besides the Trump base refusing to accept reality that he only cares about the wealthy and expects them to be ecstatic about any crumbs they get, is that the Rust Belt population has lived a long slow roll into employment irrelevancy.
They have watched as the country changed and businesses closed in their area and could not get out of the way of themselves or the Juggernaut known as change. When the companies in your area are blatantly fleeing it is time you admit the truth and either move or find new skills in new industries.
Another aspect of this is that these white Rust Belt folks receive Government support of all types yet they will, almost to a man, say the "blacks and mexicans" are the moochers for taking the same assistance they get from the government.
107
everyone knows cutting costs creates more, higher paying jobs. That's why getting rid of costly regulations creates jobs. get rid of workers protecting workers to comply with OSHA and that creates jobs. get rid of workers protecting consumers and that creates jobs. get rid of workers preventing pollution harming the public and that creates jobs. get rid of unions and stop paying workers to provide health care to workers and cut the pay to workers and that creates higher paying jobs.
4
Lay off 20 % of the workforce, cut benefits, lower salaries and force overtime at 1.5x lower wage.
Costs cut.
13
“Cut pay to workers to create higher paying jobs” — that’s some air-right GOP logic right there.
2
Life with meaning and security evidently has value. What a revelation! One day before it is too late we need to know our values and what we are willing to sacrifice to adequately have them expressed. Good article.
15
He gave them 20 months they would not have otherwise had - the rest is up to them.
3
60 hr workweeks, 10 hrs X6 days including mandatory overtime plus time to commute that leaves no time for family life, no time for recreation and socialising with friends and family, nothing like a little quality of life just time to work and get home to get a few hours of sleep. No wonder the absentee rate is so high. And the generosity of a company social where the employees are asked to bring the side dishes and the employer provides the meat. Sounds like a very asocial workplace. Do the workers get a paid break?
American unions focused too much on pay only and not enough on the real quality of life issues, like paid vacation and family friendly free weekends and family holidays and more. Free market economies with weak or nonexistent unions and labor laws are inhumane. People are not bloodless robots.
32
Nobody mentions re-training. If you know how to do job A but there are only job B, then you have to learn how to do job B or you Won’t have any job. Obviously in the future the only secure jobs are going to be technicians and repair people for the robots, when the robots break down, those companies are going to pay $80 an hour for the people who can fix the robots.
12
Hillary Clinton did more than "mention" retraining--it was central to her platform. But hey, vote for the snake-oil guy with the easy-sounding solution that can fit on a hat. GOP Congress would never have allowed anything so sensible anyway.
1
When I need a new appliance, my research includes where the item is actually manufactured - not just the home location of the "brand". If it has been made overseas, I don't buy it. That is the only way to combat the movement of "our" jobs to other countries for higher profits. This includes components - I won't buy it if components that could be made here are not. And yes, I am willing to pay somewhat more for the local product.
10
Why, though? Why is an American manufacturer more entitled to their job than a Malaysian one? And why should we spend a fortune propping up industries where we are at a comparative disadvantage? This just seems like expensive jingoism.
If everyone buys products and services based on their quality and cost, and resists the political impulse to encourage rent-seeking behaviors among our mis-employed countrymen, then instead of articles about employees playing hookie from their taxpayer-subsidized job, we might read more articles about American workers seeking training and migrating into fields where there is actual demand for American talent.
21
@Jean Boling I try to do the same, as much as I can. But what are these items/companies that are 100% US-Made?
1
You nailed it, Alex.
Kindly note that the one person featured in this article who is upbeat about his future, Jacque Williams, is the only one who doesn't feel the world (or Carrier) owes him anything, and is adapting with the changing times by acquiring new job skills.
Coincidence? I think not.
34
Let's hope the situation doesn't evolve into the premise of "Sorry to Bother You". Nearly free workers weren't even enough.
But if it were possible executives would go for it. After all, it's all about the stock price.
5
This is a red herring, companies don't worry unless they lose money. Automation is reality and the best the legacy workers can hope for is to hang on long enough to retire. as far as those workers taking advantage of pers like family leave? i dont see the problem, its the impacts of those mandatory policies.
1
@Ron
you really don't comprehend economics or businesses drivers. In this case the only reason Carrier stayed was the public focus on their move to Mexico put there by Trump. Even the $7 million that other state taxpayers gave them (the tax rebate) was not that big a concern.
Carrier also got Billions in the Federal Tax Bill that is exploding our national debt and annual deficit.
They admit their plan and Trump knew it when they agreed to spend $16 million on new equipment. It was not a mandated policy to use that investment to hire new workers, it was always to automate the factory and lay off workers.
The American public and in particular Trumps Base tout the Carrier deal still as something "good" that Trump has done. They refuse to admit that the plan was a bunch of showmanship and little substance for the long term employment of real people just like them.
What you call a red herring is actually an attempt to get the people to wake up and understand the lies being spread by the Trump administration.
19
UT is publicly-held and must do what it can to maximize shareholder value. No one's job is guaranteed anywhere any longer: ask those who lost jobs at Ford, GM, Dana, the RV builders, etc in Indiana. The people who take days off arbitrarily are what is going to doom unions in this country.
1
Great. Don’t show up for work make bogus claims, hide behind family leave and disability. Guess what the hard cold reality there is 4 Billion people in the rest of the world that would gladly do factory work for $50-100 per MONTH. They in Mexico, China, Indonesia et al. They happy to have the work which 100x better than working on a small farm. This is the reality. We need a workforce that is 21st century ready with 1st world skills. No political nonsense will change that. Capitalism is brutally effective at allocation. It will not change for same reason no one would pay $5,000 for a USA made cellphone. Start living in reality or get left behind. Cold but real.
28
@Tim
You don't know why people were out, just supposition by one of the workers. That's not evidence. And the management denied there was an absenteeism problem. So this poorly written article has you all het up without any strong evidence. There did seem to be corroboration that most employees were working mandatory 60-hour weeks though. That's exploitative, and such long hours do impact an employee's well being after a while. We have to face the fact that this is America. Working people need substantive help like re-training programs. What they don't need is someone blithely saying someone in a sweatshop a world away will happily work 60 hours a week at far less pay and never complain. We have turned our backs on working people in this country. They need much more than your callous comments. No one in this country should be going through what was reported in this article.
Yeah get used to the 60 hour work week.
Whatever happened to profit sharing? Workers who share in the profit have a stake in the success of the company. Their labor is an investment every bit as valuable as a stock purchase. People show up to work and do a good job when they have a stake in the outcome.
65
@Molly4
Not to mention reducing the Christmas meal ... what Carrier saved is peanuts compared to the message to workers that "we don't really care."
3
@Dave
That one really does boggle the mind, doesn't it? A once a year expense and they can't lay down the cash for some coleslaw? Carrier management is entering Ebaneezer Scrooge country. Bah humbug!
This is a classic example of how many unionized blue collar workers wake up every day thinking "how can I do as little work as possible today?" and/or come up with every excuse under the sun to not go to work in the first place. Are the workers ever responsible for their own irresponsible behavior or is it always an evil corporation or President that drives them to act this way?
19
@Ryan What about the quality of life aspect? People need time to relax and have some fun in life too, they want time to enjoy time with their families, their little toddlers and babies and the older kids too.
Families that eat together stay together. But if mom has to work on Sundays in some department store or food market there is only X-mas and Thanksgiving stores are closed and the family can really eat together. Holidays are sales days, days to make money, not for family time days.
8
@Ryan From the article: "the company has been running the factory hard — up to 60 hours a week with mandatory overtime, six days in a row — and some absenteeism could be due to sheer exhaustion". Is it really irresponsible to call out sick if you are really not feeling well or on a SATURDAY after working a 50 hour week or need to care for a sick kid? This is a management failure. The executives running the plant should be fired.
18
@Ryan - Naw Ryan... this is yet another classic example of a corporation exploiting their workers and exactly why we NEED unions.
Just remember, whatever job you yourself have, vacations, weekends off, benefits like medical and 401K's, etc. are because of unions.
Why do you hate the very organizations that made the middle class and America Great?
MAGA = Making America Go Away
6
A few years ago I was shopping for a new furnace. I asked the salesman who was the most reliable. He said Trane. I asked who made the least reliable. He said Carrier. He said some contractors like to install Carriers because they provide a steady stream of repair income. I bought the Trane.
51
@Craig Willison
Thanks for the heads-up!
My understanding was that only a fraction of the jobs were saved and Carrier had their cake and ate it too; not only did they take full advantage of the great deal they got to “stay” but they also moved manufacturing (at least in part) to Mexico. When companies show their hand and demonstrate their employees don’t matter you can expect them to stop caring.
37
What with outsourcing, automation, and falling rates of pay, employers no longer provide a sense of security with their jobs, or the sorts of jobs that used to provide a sense of security. Job conditions in general also no longer provide a sense of security for these workers; it used to be that layoffs were often temporary and other jobs were usually easy to find, so a sense of security would transcend an individual job. Workers in some other fields still have a sense of security -- IT systems people, accountants, policemen, and many others -- but for factory workers it is gone.
If factory workers are to have a sense of security in the future, it will have to come not from employers or the labor market, but from management of the labor market (by companies forced by government) to assure that everyone who wants to work will be able to find an at least halfway decent job. Germany sort of does this. Unions unsuccessfully fought for this when Truman was president, but now it is at best a pious wish for Democrats. The Republican solution is for each individual to work and compete harder, which is to believe that if every baseball team were good enough, one year they could all win the World Series. Republicans are very good at believing that this could work and that if it doesnt it is because some people did not try hard enough. The lack of logic here is par for the course for people who believe in voodoo economics and not in global warming.
27
@sdavidc9 In Germany companies, family owned and corporations make it a point to provide a sense of company family. If they want to invite the employees for a dinner they pay the bill, no such thing as to bring the side dishes. How cheap that is.
10
A friend of mine use to work for United Technologies (the parent company of Carrier) and her site also had to work 8-10 hours per day 6 days straight for 3 to 4 months in a row. She told me that so many of her co-workers were getting in to car accidents and accidents at work because they were so tired. She said she never got to spend time with her family because all she did on her one day off is sleep. She eventually quit, but that is no way for anyone to live.
149
Yup- vote Republican to support family values. What do they think “family values” means?
3
@Kindness4All
Your post is the perfect response to Stan above and to so many comments by folks who enjoy relatively cushy 40 hours week jobs.
I havent come across any worker reacting with anger at the unfortunate Carrier workers....
Empathy is getting scarcer by the minute in the US.
@Kindness4All
Yes, there's a reason for all those labor laws that corporate America pooh-poohs as job killers. The real job killer is corporate greed. Plain and simple. We are reverting to an earlier time where workers just don't matter. We need to change that. These are Americans. The country is turning its back on them. Where are the re-training programs so people can move on? We need to manage these labor problems much more comprehensively.
This is kind of ironic actually. We don't want people from Mexico and Central America coming here because they take our jobs. Instead we have Americans skipping work, which may lead the company to move to Mexico where the people will work. Proving, I guess, that the immigrants really are better workers.
Why not let the immigrants in to do the jobs? I bet they would be punctual for that kind of money. The work will get done, they will become consumers, pay taxes, and our economy will benefit.
Oh, right. Republicans would complain they were taking American jobs.
120
If they were organized through labor unions, had 50% of board representation from factory-floor labor you bet the outcome would be 180 degrees different. Giving unacceptable working conditions to anyone, Americans or migrants, is unacceptable. The only way to correct labor abuses is to organize and create solid, imbedded representation of the worker. Not to perpetuate abuses onto those who have an even weaker voice and who depress wages and working conditions. Duh.
35
There is a labor union there, but apparently not doing the job. According to this article, United Steelworkers represents the workers.
On the other fans, I’ll bet dollars to donuts that Indiana is a so-called “right to work” state so freeloaders are taking advantage of the Union and not being part of it.
A solid Union should protect its members even if that includes getting rid of the deadwood so the real workers can work. It also means protecting its members from being subjected to these working conditions and long hours and low wages for body and soul killing positions.
2
@JKile. ...and those immigrants would also open some great affordable family friendly restaurants w/ great food which Indiana could certainly use..... One more way to improve a poor economy.
1
This situation has the worst of both sides showing. Carrier is a company just biding time until a better solution appears-either spinoff the company or move to Mexico. This is a toxic setting for workers and for the factory as well. Management has not provided a decent work environment-to say the least.
Considering the world of Trump tariffs-the future of Carrier has become marginal and they treat workers with that attitude. Carrier will become one of the victims of Trumpian economics.
Interesting that this factory has production quotas-which never has improved quality control. Reflect back on the Soviet model of production-where people knew better than to buy products made on certain week days. This factory is an appalling example of what can happen in American industry when forces beyond control take effect. In this case, the cure should be total removal from Indiana.
12
Carrier / United Technologies is an example of corporate greed in America. Since the stock market bottomed out in 2008 the stock of Carrier's parent company has soared over 3X, is currently ahead of its peers in many key metrics, and has a healthy balance sheet. For the corporate officers the only problem with Carrier is that it is not making rich shareholders even richer. United Technologies, which makes fighter jets and many other defense systems for USA! USA!, does not care enough about its workers in Indiana to improve morale at the plant.
Shame on the corporate leaders.
As Gordon Gecko said, "Greed is good. Greed works"...for the rich, that is, not the salt of the earth factory workers.
64
As a retiree living off investments made over my long Union career, I resent the insinuation that all shareholders are to blame for these conditions.
I would gladly accept less return on my investments to make sure my successors in these jobs didn’t get treated this way.
And I vote with my shares against any Board decisions that value money over humanity.
(Yeah, I could only invest in companies that don’t have bad labor policies, but then who would speak out against these policies? We all fight the battle from different vantage points. Tactics vs Goals. )
1
Have any of these Carrier workers considered moving north to the area around Elkhart Indiana to work for RV companies? They've been giving big hiring bonuses, plus various bonuses for staying 3 months, etc. We are a nation founded by people who were willing to move; moving is the American way. In this case, they only need move across the state.
20
That sounds like an easy, simple solution at face value. Some people can pick up and move, while others cannot. Some of these workers have obligations like sick family members who need care. Maybe they are single parents who cannot move away from their children. Maybe they have homes that are difficult to sell or rent. Moving is very expensive: maybe these workers don't have the money to move even if a company helped pay some of the cost. Maybe some workers have health problems of their own or are getting too "old" to be considered desirable employees...ageism is alive and well throughout this country. Every industry favors cheap, inexperienced labor if they can get away with it. Life is so much more complex and things like relocating your family for work takes money and very careful planning. There are some people who don't have that luxury and just because they can't move doesn't make them lazy or unwilling. It's just an option that they don't have...
12
@Patricia Maurice When you live with the job and income insecurity you better stay home, close to your family, in case you need help or some support. A family may be the only support you will get. The unemployment compensation is very little, that is if you get any. The rootlessness of our society is a social problem by itself. Family bonds are very valuable.
4
No. They expect the jobs to be hand delivered to their doorsteps.
"They worked out terms: Carrier would lay off 632 of its roughly 1,350 blue-collar employees in Indianapolis, but in exchange for $7 million in tax breaks, it would keep the plant open and invest $16 million in new equipment. A little more than half of the workers would keep their jobs."
You see, this is the problem with a man who understands nothing about economics or really running a business: if you lay off half the workforce, that workforce can't handle rising demand. They are then overworked, become disgruntled and call in sick. When the plant can't meet demand cost effectively, it either shuts down or relocates to a lower cost wage environment. All Trump did was actually help layoff half the work force, which made production more difficult. This, in turn, causes morale problems which exacerbates productivity. This in turn causes the fear that drives morale down even further. Result: Carrier will inevitably close the plant to meet demand profitably. Nice job again, Mr. Trump.
183
@Paxinmano And when they close the plant, it'll be all the workers' fault. They should have had a better work ethic.
Oldest trick in the Republican playbook: blame the oppressed for the results of their oppression.
5
Why isn't Carrier hiring more people if instead of requiring overtime? It sounds like it would help the absentee problem if there were a larger pool of workers who could fill in when someone was absent.
26
It's almost always cheaper to pay overtime than hire more workers. No extra benefits for overtime
71
@Medusa
"Why isn't Carrier hiring more people if instead of requiring overtime?"
Beyond overtime being less costly as RL suggests, the unemployment rate in the area is so low that there really are not many to hire.
5
@Dave
Wages need to raised if employees are hard to find.
Just one paragraph devoted to the 60-hour, six days a week work schedule? And you are wondering why morale is poor and absenteenism is increasing. Like how long has this been going on? What percentage of the workforce is subject to this kind of scheduling? Why weren't more workers recalled and overtime reduced? No doubt some workers relish the extra time, but I would imagine workers with families or ailing parents or with any number of additional demands on their time would at some point be rebelling against 60-hour work weeks. Where is the union on this issue?
171
"Even before the closure announcement, he said, supervisors gathered people from the lines and pointed out, ominously, that their counterparts in Mexico missed fewer days. “I’m worried they will use the absenteeism as an excuse to shut the factory,” Mr. Roell said. “They aren’t doing anything to improve morale.”"
It looks like some of these workers are looking for the next scapegoat to blame. With only a high school diploma (or less), they expected for some reason to have high-paying manufacturing jobs, when the same jobs could be filled by overseas labor making a tenth of their earnings.
So let's review the timeline of blame: first it was the Mexicans and other undocumented workers stealing their jobs. (They still get part of the blame). Then it was cheap workers in Asia and greedy owners. Next, Democratic politicians who stopped caring about the little guy (i.e., them). Finally, now that their low tech factories are about to expire, some of them are getting ready to blame their fellow workers, the ones who are absent from the assembly line.
But the truth of it is that their jobs have been living on borrowed time for years. Emergency resuscitation by Trump won't make Carrier's Indiana factories profitable enough. And Trump's been going around axing other jobs (in renewable energy, etc.) that might help rejuvenate these towns.
38
And out of 700 employees, Mr Schwartz quotes a whopping five of them, one of who says, “I don’t have a gripe”. I am supremely confident that these five were picked at random and represent a perfect cross section of the opinions of the entire Carrier workforce, and, further, that the reporter encountered no employees at all who contradicted the narrative painted in the article because, after all, their opinions would have be covered too, right? I feel good knowing that there is zero chance that this reportage was approached with a political bent.
13
The no show (called -calling off) is a nationwide problem that is only going to get worse. A couple of younger generations are upset because there are no jobs in their career field, so they pout. If they take some companies' job offer, they think all that is required to get top dollar is to show up. It began in T-ball.
Now they can't get past their first life disappointment . WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO - WHEN THE INVESTORS GIVE 33% OF ALL JOBS TO ROBOTS - OVER THEY NEXT 5 YEARS?
Because they (the pouters) didn't show up and work. Nothing Trump or any politician can do will fix it !
11
You are blaming workers who are forced to work 60 hours a week with the overtime mandatory. I hope Carrier death benefits are good so the spouses have some income when the employee drops dead from exhaustion.
30
@Elizabeth Miranti
Interestingly enough immigrants would jump at the opportunity to work only 60 hours at 19 or 20 bucks an hour plus OT of time and a half. Americans seem to fixated on the idea that any work over 40 hours a week is some sort of punishment.
@Elizabeth Miranti Don't employers have the ability to insure the lives of their employees so that in the event of their death they receive the proceeds?
Why don't Carrier's disgruntled workers go pick fruit and vegetables in California. You know, those people that steal American jobs.
72
Carrier employees are too tired to pick crops after working 60 hours a week despite an occasional absence.
Picking crops might get them more money than their current job since picking pays well over minimum wage plus benefits. However, picking is seasonal, so the earnings are erratic through the year.
10
@buffnick
profit-sharing goes to shareholders, people like me, after obscene top management salaries+bonuses are written off as expenses of doing business. Can any of us name one viable E.S.O.P.? Employee Stock Option Plan of shared ownership?
1
Saving the most important fact for the 12th paragraph is not responsible journalism:
"the company has been running the factory hard — up to 60 hours a week with mandatory overtime, six days in a row — and some absenteeism could be due to sheer exhaustion, Mr. Roell allowed. But “bad blood,” as he put it, is at least as much to blame. “Workers feel like Carrier is going to leave,” he said, “whether we come to work or not.”
These aren't cushy office jobs. It's backbreaking, mindnumbing work with no sign of advancement and all signs pointing towards automation and factory relocation.
224
@common sense advocate
Nothing "back-breaking" here. Simple heat pumps. And what is the average work week? Not the extreme high end reported here!
These gripers will all be replaced, not by Mexicans, but by robots. These are poorly educated Americans who will face hard times in the future.
1
But who is going to manufacture those robots? And where? And who’s going to maintain them?
...as if all service jobs are cushy? Please. These people get paid overtime when salaried workers are expected to put in 60 hours without any financial benefit. Their work requires no investment in education yet they get paid more than many “professionals.”
There is obviously something very wrong here. If the economy is “doing well” then stories like this should not exist. By whose standards is the economy doing “well?” If unemployment in Indiana is only 3.3% then it should be a worker’s paradise. Who’s lying to whom? Clearly, this report gives more than a subtle suggestion that ‘blaming the victim’ is in order. Maybe those still on the line are experiencing ‘survivors guilt.’ As a division of Pratt & Whitney, Carrier is expendable. The rationale of things being a “business decision” is hollow propaganda. One’s priorities determine decisions. Human resources are of less value than ever in this global economy. So who exactly is the economy supposed to be serving?
The obvious civic and moral (and ultimately) economic choice is joint, cooperative ownership of corporations. The workers would be invested and motivated. If cuts are to be made they would less likely be heartless and arbitrary. People would again feel a sense of pride and involvement in their careers. Of course, the NYT is not making that suggestion and the 1% will do anything to keep such a concept out of the national consciousness. Better to elect a snake oil selling buffoon to pretend to care and then leave folks out in the cold or withering on the line. But, heck the economy is doing great! Right?
31
@Richard Mays I agree! it's a completely overlooked concept, and when it is brought up at all it is often only to sell the employees a troubled company, which only strengthens the perception that employee ownership doesn't work.
12
@Richard Mays
Well Richard you should go and build a multinational company that collectively employs over 50,000 people and then you do just what you proposed. Take your hard work and "give" the employees control over that company.
Oh wait, you don't the the mind, ability or funding to do that. Instead you sit on-line and complain others must work hared and then give you something more than the paycheck you agreed to .
@Richard Mays
This is the best comment that I have read. There are thre modes of human interaction: conflict, competition, and cooperation. Cooperation is the best and most humane of all the modes.
So, why not use the English term "on its own initiative", or "without equal"? Are you trying to sound like a lawyer who hasn't noticed the move towards the use of plain English in legal documents?
3
Carrier employees, has not the light come on? Denial much? You helped Pence and Trump win. Reap the whirlwind.
45
I am sure the Carrier employees were too exhausted working a forced 60 hour work week with an occasional absence to deal with politics.
9
@Elizabeth Miranti Yup. Keep 'em too tired to think, give them someone to blame, promise you'll make things better, and they'll follow you into the fire. It's no coincidence.
@Elizabeth Miranti
you missed the 2016 election coverage interviews, didn't you? Carrier line employees from this plant were front and center bragging how Trump was their savior.
With such morale, you have to wonder about the quality of the assembled furnaces. I'd think twice about buying one.
55
Hmm. Perhaps if both sides of this story can't find common ground, the company may uproot, or automate, at their first opportunity and blame it on the employees.
The employees will blame the company for any relocation and/or automation when the root cause could be a production rate that may need adjustment to take into account employee needs.
Morale in a factory environment is a two way street with give and take on both sides. I would be curious to read or hear what management's take is-or-managment is playing a game of attrition in hopes that productivity will dip to numbers low enough that may make a move economically advantageous and taking into account the tax relief bribe.
9
I empathize with the workets, especially for those who do their jobs. In 2016, they may have not been foolish to believe Trump. However, anyone who still believes him deserves what they get. He is so unhinged that even when he hits on a good idea, one can assume that fifteen minutes later, he will have forgotten it and replaced it with something absurd, something suggested by a flatterer, or an outright lie. This may be emotionally appealing to his base but, as all but the most delusional should realize by now, this is no way to make policy even in a world of kleptocrats.
23
Sooner or later everyone has cause to regret having had anything whatsoever to do with Donald J Trump. What a guy!
62
Mandatory 60 hour work week in a right to work state.
What could possibly go wrong with this utopian dream.
238
@Swift good point...right to work means right to be worked to death; right to be exploited.
2
Times, you are the life of the Party for sure. Your headline makes it look like President Trump did something wrong with Carrier Corporation. He did not come through yet reading the article it is apparent it has zero to do with Trump and everything to do with management and the belief that they may still leave in a few years to Mexico. I mean, can you be any harder on the President than you are? Middle of the Road? Truthful, not taking sides? Come on! I wasn't born yesterday.
9
@rocketship Are you kidding? This has everything to do with Trump, because he made it all about Trump. It never was, really, and United Technologies will do whatever makes the rich richer. I found this article disturbing, but not for your reasons. The work may be mind- and body-numbing, but since when has assembly line work been a rewarding and creative enterprise? Yet, a surprising number of the workers seem to find this a poor arrangement. I agree, but if the need is to survive financially and keep your home, there are trade-offs. By the way, what is middle of the road about anything here?
16
They voted for Trump. They are getting what they voted for. I have no sympathy for them nor do I feel positive about $12 billion going to bail out farmers. Maybe if the Trump/Republican tax bill wasn't keeping me from deducting more than $10000 in property taxes I might care. But no! They deserve everything bad that they are getting.
49
@JFF the also voted for (or enabled) Right to Work, which stripped them of, or at least weakened, union protection
3
@JFF: Northerners that live in high state tax areas deserve all they get too! Isn't regional and class warfare great!
Is it possible that the absenteeism is due to workers looking for other jobs?
5
Before anyone complains about morale, or anything else, they should remember what He reminds them of at every rally: you can't always get what you want...
9
I had the same exact thought. Who wouldn’t if the writing is on the wall?
I am not familiar with the Carrier factory, but I do know that people cannot do these types of jobs, 60 hours a week, and remain physically and emotionally healthy.
87
@Mrs H
For centuries humans have worked longer and harder jobs than these folks standing on an assembly line doing these repetitive tasks.
People can do these jobs and be healthy, bu t the average worker goes home after work or to the bar and then sits / sleeps from the next 14-16 hours every day.,
1
@ Mrs H. My God. Do you know how many people, professional and nonprofessional work 60 hours/week? How many people work in Manhattan but have to slog the horrid subways night and day because they can't afford to live where they work. How many work two jobs to afford the cost of living where they live. How many work at their alleged 9-5 job and then come home to continue until the wee hours. The days of leisure living have been over for quite some time.
3
@mike
In the past, when "humans worked longer and harder jobs than these" they usually died young, and alcoholism was rife.
This is the problem with telling people what they want to hear: sooner or later the truth catches up. For a similar problem, see Trump's claims about North Korean denuclearization.
45
Having worked in the manufacturing industry in both the US and Mexico - I can tell you that absenteeism is a United States specialty. The entire reason for moving to Mexico was probably born out of chronic absenteeism at the Carrier facility. Not to mention their union .. they play their little games and bend the rules just enough not to break them- they'll purposely shut down production if they have a "beef" with management. It's a classic cat and mouse game. You get what you give- and the union at Carrier gave management nothing but headaches. The union workers lost their own jobs- don't hang this on Carrier management.
11
The Carrier employees forced to work 60 hours a week and you condemn the union. So do I. The union should not allow the employees to be at the point of total exhaustion every day. The only way to not collapse is to take an unauthorized absence.
Carrier is vicious. I will never buy Carrier again.
23
@Elizabeth Miranti agree, except it is hard for the union to be effective in a right to work state
3
@Elizabeth Miranti
Any hour after forty is most likely DOUBLE TIME and 60 hours a week is NOTHING! It's not like they are hauling logs and shoveling dirt. I never saw any of my Mexican counterparts complain when they worked 60 hours- and they were earning 1/4 of the pay.
"Ms. Rowan had to put aside the hurt and rejection, but it was a small price to pay for a union job with full benefits, vacation and the possibility of overtime."
And yet these same folks continually vote for Republicans that are actively destroying unions and turning all states into "at will" states meaning you can be fired at any time for almost any reason.
96
@Kathy The state of Missouri just voted 3 to 1 to strike down the "right to work laws" - second state who, by referendum i.e. the people voting - following on the heels of another industrial state.
When the governor and their minions impose 'right to work laws' follow MO's example and overturn such mandates.
27
@Amaratha. I must admit I was really surprised the voters of Missouri saw through the propaganda of the "right to work" (for less) supporters. Good job, keep the momentum going!
In 2016 Hillary Clinton proposed billions of dollars to retrain coal workers for lesser paying jobs with a future and was loudly rejected and ridiculed. With overtime these assembly workers make pretty good money. How many are improving their skills to do something else and get off the assembly lines? The handwriting has been on the wall for a long time; these jobs are not coming back in any numbers. There are economic and technological forces in play way beyond the power of the current occupant of 1600 Penn. They bought the lies of a 2 bit con man. And if he's still around in 2020 they'll vote for him again.
110
" It’s true that the company has been running the factory hard — up to 60 hours a week with mandatory overtime, six days in a row — and some absenteeism could be due to sheer exhaustion, Mr. Roell allowed."
Something all of us with college degrees should ponder: how hard is my job? How many of us could pull off 60 hour weeks on assembly lines? We want cheap goods, but we don't think about the human cost that imposes. We somehow think our own jobs that require a degree merit better pay than a blue-collar job, even if the actual work is much less strenuous.
My degree has given me the privilege to work overseas, in an interesting area and the opportunity to avoid this kind of work. Those who have to do it should be paid well. They should earn more than me. We should not be blaming the victim because some of them are burning out due to very hard work at low pay.
66
@Bill Thank you for your comment. 60 hours a week; 10 hours a day of grueling, backbreaking work, standing on your feet, damaging your body by repetitive stress - Dickinsonian.
Early on I decided I wanted to be paid for my brain, not my body, and had the privilege to do so. College, a master's degree - options not open to the working or lower middle class today with the exorbitant cost of higher education in America - a birthright in Europe.
29
@Bill Well said. How many management and administrators run Pivot Tables all day or manipulate some useless metric that at the end of the day adds zero value. Lots of life is luck. How many management people can work at home three days a week and are not faced with standing on their feet for 60 hours a day. My beef with todays white collar worker is people who never answer their phone or seem incapable of responding to anything in a timely manner. These people would not last a day on an assembly line. 90 percent of life is showing up on time.
13
It would fascinating to know how many of the comments here lamenting the conduct of these workers comes from people who've ever worked in a factory.
Humankind was not made for it -- the mind goes, and the body goes. Give it 20 years, and you'll see. In civilized countries, there are protections. Northern Europeans can't make repetitive physically demanding work fun, but they ensure that it pays reasonably well, that there are workplace rules which reduce the stress, and that there's no worry about paying for health care or education for yourself or your family.
Here, we vote for Trump -- because, Venezuela!
103
@jrd I have worked in metals smelters, in aircraft factories, in machine shops and as an aircraft mechanic. I understand both sides of the table in this story and I believe that both sides, management and labor, may be cutting their noses off.....
Or, having worked for industry and have seen shady practices by management, there could be other motives.
6
@jrd: You are so right. I worked many blue collar factory jobs as I worked my way through college. The ones I worked in my mid-20's were repetitive motion jobs that ruined my arms from the shoulders down. That hard work ruined my body but my education allowed me to work for myself in a white collar job but even typing too much on a touch screen can set my pain off, never mind the chronic spinal problems I have, too, from standing for hours on cement floors.
2
@jrd
I worked in factories and it is hell. Nothing encouraged me to stay in school more. (And I worked in those factories to afford my tuition and expenses -- I did not go to school for free.) But I showed up and never considered abusing sick leave policy.
I agree with the comments criticizing reduced number of workers and ridiculous amount of mandatory overtime, but the attitude of these people, who got their continued employment off the backs of Indiana taxpayers, many of whom are in as bad or worse situations and may not even have a job, let alone a job paying this well, still comes off as spoiled and entitled.
(Don't get me started on the Republican tax obscenities passed last year and under Bush II and Reagan, or the other bad behavior of corporate America. I have been furious about Republican tax policy since Reagan came into office. Plus Trump's rolling back Obama's overtime regs, and the Supreme Courts anti worker decisions. I support single payer and lowering public college tuition.)
I do not agree with the present Democratic position on illegal immigration (I have voted Democratic since John Anderson lost the Republican presidential primary to the wretched Reagan), but have to agree with the commenters saying the immigrant workers would not be staying home because of attitude problems. Why wouldn't a corporation move to Mexico or automate if this is how higher paid American workers behave?
So because the workers don't feel they'll keep their jobs for long, their thinking is to not show up to work -- and thus make Carrier close the factory even sooner, because nobody wants to work? It's like they want to give Carrier as many excuses to leave as quickly as they can. The only people I feel bad for are the other taxpayers who had to chip in for this debacle thanks to Pence and Trump.
25
$7 million in tax breaks (i.e. our money) to save 300 jobs (that Trump claimed at the time was 1,000) for 3 years: basically, the public is paying the salary of these people while the company is automating their jobs, or shipping them to Mexico. Meanwhile, "things looked considerably brighter for the company, then worth $88.5 billion." Yet these people will vote for Republicans to bust their unions, steal their retirements, education and healthcare. They are reaping what they sowed.
135
@DaDa
They were conned by a criminal. You should feel sorry for them rather than vindictive and thus encourage them to get more information before they vote next time (although it's hard to think clearly after and 60 arduous physical work week...)
I am in the construction business. Carrier did make a reliable product years ago. This is not the case today. When a HVAC unit failed several times Carrier washed their hands and told me they subcontracted this particular unit out to another company. I will avoid Carrier in the future.
They have the attitude of the auto industry in the 80's......building inferior product but expecting Americans to remain loyal and buy American!
74
@Bridget Bohacz And this may be one reason for the low morale. Most people want to do their best, and if their working conditions make that impossible, workers will feel demoralized. People want to be able to take pride in their work.
2
@Bridget Bohacz When my 14 year old AC unit failed I paid a $1000+ premium to get a TRANE and avoid Carrier because of the shenanigans going on at a company that intended to outsource all of its jobs to Mexico, and then got in bed with the Donald. That's ALWAYS a bad move.
Editorial note: "Saved" in the title should be in quotation marks.
24
Nobody likes to be conned. It doesn't feel good. It makes you feel stupid. Many of these workers probably believed Trump had their backs. Sad.
26
I tried to read through all of the comments, thinking I'd see some from the employees of the Carrier plant, refuting the article or, at a minimum, explaining the absenteeism. I was surprised to find nothing of the sort. I'd like to know what's in their minds regarding the absenteeism. Can it be they're waiting for a Trump bailout once the factory closes for good?
9
@FedUp i am guessing trump voters dont read the post, they think its just all fake news anyway.
14
Their bodies are telling them that 60 hours is too much.
If you're a white-collar worker on salary, you can skip work and call it a "mental health day." And no one will chide you for "absenteeism," because that's a pejorative reserved for, say it with me now, Other People.
2
@FedUp Try working 60 hours a week; 10 hours a day; standing on your feet, doing repetitive, back breaking work........then worrying about the cost of health care, pollution, the future of your children, the cost of basic necessities.
Seriously? You'd have the luxury of of time to scan the NYTimes (at $15 a month) and comment?
Doubtful.
Lazy Trump people. Your life time appointments are coming to an end care of your subservient attitude to capitalism and corporate greed.
4
These CEOs are tone deaf.
The workers are now recognizing the truth, and they're angry with leaders who dance around -- whether its Trump or Carrier.
Vote these guys out on November! Their PR stunts and their false promises are disgusting.
15
I live in a city, where the cost of living is higher than it is in Indiana, and I make about half of what these workers make, with my husband, in the service industry, making about as much as I do. So together, two people employed full time, with a child, make about as much as one of these workers. Neither of us have any true job security; my husband's job depends on the success of the restaurant, and his pay depends largely on how busy it is (varies week to week). He has to pay his insurance out of pocket. I teach at a university right now, but my job is temporary. But we still show up every day. And yet factory workers somehow get our collective attention, get our collective national sympathy, and can be used as a political propaganda tool, when the majority of us out there in the world aren't making as much as them, and don't have much more, or any more, job security. And they're not showing up for work, but we do, every day. And we, the urban liberals, are the ones who want a handout?
314
I hear you. I too was surprised by the high pay for the factory work and I surely wouldn’t be jeopardizing the job with absenteeism.
10
@reader
It is strange to be sure. These are individuals making in excess of median *household* income with the overtime. Meanwhile many people, myself included, regularly work 60hrs/week for less money in overtime exempted positions. Stories like this paper over the dire straights of the the labor market in this recovery.
13
@reader With all due respect, most restaurant work consists of 'no-skill' jobs while it may be just as long-houred and physical as 'low-skill' manufacturing, the pay will be lower. I suspect you could probably find a better paying job than a university temp, but it might not be as enjoyable work.
In this article I'm seeing claims of 'employee absenteeism' at a clearly understaffed facility where workers are being forced to work 6 days a week with up to 20 hours of mandatory overtime. If people aren't showing up 6 days a week for 60 hours of assembly line work, they obviously aren't getting paid enough for that kind of workload. Additionally, workers have rights and sick leave is one of them, and yes people who stand 10 hours a day, 6 days a week doing manual labor are going to have health issues occasionally on company time. Human beings are not robots.
5
What are the chances that an illegal immigrant wouldn’t be at their work station when the assembly line starting bell rang? Still maybe depressed but at least there.
26
I applaud Jacque Williams for taking the initiative to take advantage of the education that was offered, and will no doubt have a far more lucrative job than the one he left behind at Carrier. There’s a lot more money to be made in repairing furnaces than there is in assembling them.
18
Except for his comment that his retraining/education is “free”. Taxpayers, and predominantly those in Blue states, are covering the cost of this program.
I wish him the best (and hope his colleagues take up the same program), but let’s not fool ourselves. Carrier’s actions are costing all of us, not just those being laid off.
1
Maybe he had something to do with the plant staying open. Fine. But you’re still expected to show up for work. If you don’t you can’t complain if you lose your job. trump notwithstanding, every decision Carrier makes is a business decision.
4
Anyone feel particularly sad for these folks? They were probably going to lose their jobs anyways. Automation is coming, that's what the owners of capital want. I suspect the new generation of robots will, in the long run, be even cheaper than paying for labor in a country like Cambodia. Trump used them for a cheap PR stunt, yet they still voiced support for him when it became clear that the saving of "American jobs" was only temporary.
This from a state that shifted from blue to red when their unions were the very thing giving them that 24 dollars an hour with benefits and vacation. That gave us VP Mike Pence, as odious a religious theocrat as we've seen in some time. A state with a huge opioid epidemic (maybe that's contributing to the absenteeism and low morale?). What's the matter with Indiana?
"Give me Jesus" indeed. Maybe he'll save their jobs. More like the executives of Carrier will count the billions more they'll make by laying off American workers while they sing "God Bless America." As though God favors certain countries over others (why did the Muslims and Russia, until recently our mortal enemy, get so much oil and gas?), as much as he picks certain football teams to win. Yeah, Jesus is playing a heavenly game of Risk.
44
My sympathy gene is running lower and lower when Trump voters finally see that they were fooled. Warning signals were everywhere but when you vote for a failed businessman, you get failing business policies.
130
I worked in auto plants for 40+ years, primarily in management and technical roles. Absenteeism has always been a problem even when the folks where making 50+/hr. If you have not worked in a plant, you have no idea how working 60 hours/week of forced overtime for long periods leaves you a soulless shell. It is nothing like working long hours in a professional role. As one person hypothesized, I would guess many of those absent are self medicating with alcohol and drugs. I also bet that Carrier is doing this to build the case for moving to Mexico. I know that the management I worked for certainly did.
341
What you are saying is so true. My husband 46 years and myself 19 @ same place. We are in an automotive supplier in the ct. Overtime-yes Absenteeism-yes Self medicating-yes. Union-yes 1st and 2nd tier wages-yes. No forced overtime but, 2nd tier has too. Hopefully, our union can lift up our 2nd tier next contract.
12
There was a time, not so long ago, when corporations were interested in investing in their employees, and cared whether they were happy. With the gig economy, outsourcing, downsizing, and the destruction of unions, companies no longer make investments in their employees. Companies should not be surprised that the employees make no investment in them. Why should they when companies have made it clear that employees are seen as disposable, like machine parts that can be replaced. In the 1990s, the company I worked for gave all its employees tulips one Wednesday in April with a note, Happy Spring, a bottle of wine for Thanksgiving, and once every four months, took all the employees out for a company lunch. The company had a lot of problems, but employees felt good about working there because we felt we had value. As a result, many of us, myself included, stayed much longer than we would have, had the morale been bad. Retaining workers saves companies money over the long run, keeping the end product stable. Treating them like disposable razors, not so much.
78
@j You're describing the transition from Stakeholder Capitalism to Shareholder Value Capitalism.
In the Stakeholder Capitalism of the 1940s through the 1970s, corporations served diverse stakeholders. Shareholders were important, but executives recognized that they needed employees, communities, and the country to prosper. Employees were (generally) seen as valuable assets; investing in them was an investment in the long-term health of the company. By serving as a countervailing balance to capital, unions ensured this (comparatively) healthy balance of stakeholders, despite their own flaws and corruption.
At the end of the 1970s, corporate raiders started using other people's money ("leveraging") to buy up stock and gain control of companies. They insisted executives maximize short-term gain, at the expense of all other stakeholders. The rise of corporate raiders coincided with Reagan's "supply-side" economics and the GOP becoming exclusively the Party of the Rich. Reagan attained sainthood by declaring war on unions and labor. The zero-sum game of Shareholder Value Capitalism became our de facto state religion, and corporations became exclusively obligated to maximize the short-term gain of shareholders. Workers became mere expenses to relentlessly reduce ("unlocking shareholder value"), as the countervailing power of unions receded.
Shareholder Value Capitalism is inherently unsustainable. But can we return to a more equitable form of capitalism before it collapses?
44
@TedGood luck finding even one "shareholder value capitalist" willing to go back to "stakeholder capitalism". Excellent comment by the way.
Perhaps the problem here is that the article focuses on presidential politics, when the real issue is a dispute between management and labor at an industrial plant. In the current environment, adding POTUS to any issue seems to make it more complicated.
7
Except that Trump interjected politics into this capitalism and did it for political purposes.
1
Clearly, this is the fault of "coastal elites."
26
"Paychecks are a tad fatter..." Um, no they aren't. National they are down almost 9%
17
Raise your hand, if you're surprised. Just another TrumpScam, with mirrors and cameras. Sad.
28
Unfortunately, this article raises more questions than answers. The author notes he has made multiple trips to Indiana and interviewed employees extensively. But one has to rely on the comments to speculate on why absenteeism is threatening the future of the factory. The writer has failed to record any specific conversation or interview (anonymous or otherwise) with an absentee worker. Isn't this the heart of the story? The very core of the morale problem? Isn't there an editor available to ask the journalist on the spot to go out and find someone to speak with directly?
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@Stan
I had much the same reaction: Something is missing from this piece. The author seems to have hit on a theory about the absenteeism - poor morale because the company isn't loyal to workers and may pull up stakes at any minute - but just breezes by the business of staff being asked to work 60 hours per week. This is factory work: Dull, repetitive, performed standing on one's feet hour after hour. Seems to me that may account for people not showing up - they're tired.
And I agree that the writer should have spoken with workers who are frequently absent. Wouldn't their words be more informative than the guesses of those who are showing up and clearly resent their absent colleagues?
NYTimes, this piece could have been a lot more informative.
2
@Stan
A bit of empathy might go a long way: grueling physical labor 60 hours a week will make prone to illness.
1
Great article, but why didn't you talk to some of the people who weren't showing up for work?
219
Most excellent point.
1
@Tim Haight
They were worked in arduous physical labor till they dropped, and they did. Dont you think that Carrier could have hired more people and avoided absenteism? Also workers exhaustion and early death?
1
Your headline is erroneous to the point of being ludicrous: no, he did NOT "save it." As usual, he conned the company, conned the media, and conned the citizenry. He distorted facts, lied outright, and made promises he never kept and had no intention of keeping. Sound familiar? It's the way he operated as a casino owner and the way he has operated in the office he now holds. If you play into his narrative, you will be conned. That's the way it works.
53
Poor gullible Trump voters. From what I understand, only half kept their jobs in the Indiana Carrier plant in exchange for the good optics to Trump as the savior of the factory worker. Meanwhile, Carrier got a huge tax break (at the expense of the state of Indiana who lost those tax dollars) to invest further in automating their plant. What a brilliant con!
55
Once again, republicans vote against their own best interest. When we lived in Columbus, OH, I once ask my dental htgienist why? She said "because we have always voted republican"
I think that's called "tribalism"these days.
In my not so humble opinion, it's Dumb and Dumbest
49
I find it best not to pick fights with people who carry sharp instruments and whose workplace is my mouth.
3
Everything Trump touches dies.
162
@Dan: Nice. He's got the Anti-Midas Touch.
Trump and Carrier: always remember that ...
♦ he told us that when he said “Carrier will never leave,” he was just saying it to sound good (“that was a euphemism”)
♦ he told us that he went and forgot all about it (“I never thought I made that promise”) until he saw himself on T.V.
♦ he told us that when he saw a Carrier worker on T.V. stating his confidence in Trump, he took it for sarcasm (“I wonder if he’s being sarcastic, because this ship has sailed.”)
Trump openly declared how dishonest, incompetent and snide he was, and he is allowed to get away with that.
18
This is the company that used the millions taken from Indiana’s coffers by Pence to invest in automation so that fewer humans would be needed. And Carrier has been quietly moving hundreds of jobs to Mexico since at least 2017. This was a sham by Trump. Soon all the jobs will be moved; if I were employed by Carrier, I’d use every “sick” day I could to search for a job elsewhere.
570
@Peter ERIKSON you say that you will search for a job but look where you live compared to these people. Jacque Williams in the article said it best he got a chance to go back to school for free to get a certification in heating and cooling equipment. The lady who got a voicemail from HR was happy to go back to work even though she was laid off. The jobs in that area pay about half what they used to make. Carrier knows that and does not care. Most people need to pay to go back to school. Also look at the ages of these people in their mid fifties. Who will hire them?
I have been working for this company for over 16 years. I was so thankful for the job. When we were told that they were moving to Mexico... I can tell you we had been warned for years ahead of time. But I was hoping that it was just a threat for us to do better and come to work. I blame management and the union for our absentee issues. So many of our work force abuse F.M.L.A, because the company and union have let this go on. It seems to me that our workers have no idea what it is like in the real world. I have worked only in non union jobs before I got this job. When Carrier does leave Indiana for Mexico in its entirety these ungrateful people are in for a rude awakening. I just hope that I will be able to retire before that happens. If it does happen before I retire then it will be the 4th plant shut down that I have had to endure.
415
@Deborah McCool
why is it so wrong to want something better. Sure, one does what one has to do to survive. But why exactly should we put up with the current state of things, where only the shareholders (who aren't doing the work) profit from the sweat of our brow?
9
All jobs should be union jobs. That anyone would identify non-union work as being somehow more allied with the "real world" shows how successful anti-union propaganda has been over the years.
12
@Deborah McCool - How exactly is FMLA abused "by so many"? Are your co-workers faking child births and serious illness? Is there some type of mass FMLA fraud to which you are referring, and how would you know WHY your co-workers have taken FMLA? Does Carrier's union require salary to be paid on FMLA? The law certainly doesn't require that.
If carrier leaves Indiana it will have nothing to do with FMLA or the union. It will be because their subsidy has run out, or they can automate the jobs - anywhere in the world they choose.
9
Working 6 or 7 days a week for an inadequate wage, for a company that requires mandatory overtime instead of hiring enough full-time employees to cover the line, is not a solution. I'm sure a lot of those absences are related to exhaustion and burnout - when you're run ragged it's hard to have high morale - particularly when there's no end in sight. I'm also sure that Carrier could solve this problem if it really wanted to, but it doesn't seem to want to. It doesn't help that thanks to voting against their own interests, folks in red states like Indiana probably don't have a backup plan for emergency/unplanned childcare, or elder care, or can't get to the doctor for maintenance/preventive care because they would miss work.
41
it's all about labor costs in manufacturing. what are the UT board members to say to shareholders if they decline to reduce BOTH costs and absenteeism?
workers in britain were saying exactly the same thing about workers in america in the early 20th century and mexicans will be complaining about the next cheap labor force in the future. round and round it goes.
5
@pierre
"mexicans will be complaining about the next cheap labor force in the future. round and round it goes."
Chinese companies already are "off-shoring" to Viet Nam, Bangladesh and even Ethiopia. It does go "round and round."
Expecting your parents who are barely holding onto a middle class income to pay your way to becoming a pediatrician sounds unreasonable. Even for higher earning families paying for college and medical school is daunting. Suggest the daughter in the article look for other alternatives to paying her way - the father is wrong to say her dream not attainable if he loses his job. The American way was to forge ahead not sit there and expect someone else to take care of your problems.
49
@Mahalo
Neither of us knows the details of the financial support of the would-be Pediatrician.
With the parent's skill set, and likely investment in the community (like a house, or even a supportive church group) keeping them in a dying town, the choice to help their child to succeed makes much more sense economically than buying lottery tickets, for example.
If successful, their daughter may will support them once she is established, and she should qualify for a much better position than "assembly line worker" even if she fails to become a doctor, and uses her education in some other way.
I find it very hard to criticize the choice made in this case. (I also suspect that their daughter will need all the support from her parents and from other sources like loans and scholarships to succeed.) FYI, pediatricians are rapidly becoming the "female ghetto" of doctors, with substantially lower incomes than, say, cardiac surgeons, despite having a positive impact on far more lives.
5
True. The American way has been deliberately hollowed out. Social acceptance of being on the dole has replaced the stigma that once would have horrified Middle Class America. We were taught that we were victims. From that flows everything.
2
@Mahalo
I'm in medical school now. Just to get into medical school is several thousands of dollars in applications, plane tickets for interviews, moving expenses, etc. For tuition, most students needed their relatives to cosign for their federal student loans -- but not everyone's parents have good enough credit to do this.
Maybe 5 other students out of a class of 110 came from homes taking in less than 6 figures or with parents who had less than a college degree. The five of us 'found another way' because we were fortunate, not because we're superior to the ones who didn't. Most had one person in their life who could front them the money for their dream. In my case, I spent six years in the military saving up and earning my GI Bill -- which cost me nearly a million dollars in lost wages as a doctor.
In America, we believe in equality of oppurtunity. But that is in desperately short supply. Equality in education is a very basic starting point. Nobody should be denied the oppurtunity to go to school because their parents can't pay. If we're going to MAGA, we should start by refunding public education.
9
It is hardly astonishing that morale at Carrier is low. Much of the actual work described in this article is a prime target for robotic automation. Human assembly line work has very little future, even in lower wage countries.
All of this said, Job #1 for Job #1 is to show up for work. If an entire assembly process, including other workers who manage to show up, is short-circuited by absenteeism, then everybody's job security is threatened sooner rather than later.
Nothing that Trump or any other politician says or does will create jobs for absentee workers. The biggest losers in the the industrial decline are workers who manage to show up every day unable to function at full capacity due to malingerers.
8
What has happened to the work ethic? Who else believes that the debasement of honest employment has destroyed the American Nation?
3
Amazing how the work ethic is affected by being forced to work 60 hour weeks, and having to “cheat” with an absence in order to not collapse.
4
Thankfully, Mr. Maynard's daughter's ability to become a pediatrician has very little to do with her father's income. Most physicians pay for medical school via loans which are universally attainable if one actually has the ability to get accepted into medical school. Let's not conflate things.
I have plenty of colleagues who supported themselves through college and medical school without parental financial support.
Not sure why Mr. Maynard and this article imply that if he were to take a lower paying job her dreams would be destroyed. That's hogwash. Her GPA and MCAT score, not her father's hourly wage are much more relevant here.
This whole debacle is another example of Trump's elevation of showmanship and style over substance. Full of sound and fury...
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@J
How long ago, exactly, were you in school? What it takes to get through it has changed.
8
@J
Most students need someone to cosign student loans for them. If the parents don't have good enough credit, they have to find someone else to sign for a $250 loan -- are you volunteering? If so, I know a few people who could use your help.
Then there's the cost of making yourself a good candidate. You think you can make a 4.0 working thirty hours a week, plus volunteering and internships? You think you can afford an MCAT prep course when you can't even afford rent?
The average American household makes about $50k a year and neither parent has a 4 year degree. Last I checked, less than 10% of med students came from homes making less than $100k or without a college degree. There's a reason for that. It's incredibly hard to get into medical school even for people who have every advantage. Those without socioeconomic privilage face a nearly impossible odds.
5
@J: They also may not be aware that the National Health Service pays kids to go to medical school plus a living stipend as long as they serve in rural and/or poor areas of the country once they graduate, negating any need for student loans. Given the state they live in, I'm sure they aren't aware of that taxpayer funded federal program that has been around for decades now.
1
Interesting article. An example of shooting yourself in your foot or voting against your own best interests.
A while ago NPR had a segment about the furniture industry in NC. The industry needs upholstery workers. They even, at one point, opened a facility to train people; free education. Sadly, too many people failed the drug test to qualify for the training.
79
@KLKemp Why is there a 'drug test' to qualify for training/education. Personally, I would find it demeaning.
9
@Jenifer Wolf Insurance companies mandate the drug testing. Too many stoners in the US workforce. They cause terrible and dangerous situations. "demeaning"--seriously?
1
@Jenifer Wolf big secret ,drug test failure is epidemic and unbelievable ,sometimes up to 90%. Drug use in the workplace is extremely dangerous and there's a reason why hundreds of tons of drugs get here from Mexico and originate in China. Let's see 2+2=4 right?
Given carriers record, the employees are right. They live on borrowed time. US companies move to where labour is cheaper
I study the economics of Syracuse NY.
"When Carrier killed manufacturing in its hometown Syracuse, incentives didn't matter"
Carrier's 2003 decision to reject the $ 210 Million incentives from New York state and labor unions resulted in the layoffs of 1,200 workers in 2004 who made cooling equipment at two plants along Thompson Road in suburban DeWitt.
Carrier officials blamed global market forces in 2004
"The short-term financial assistance to Carrier that would result from the proposed actions and concessions cannot reverse the economic realities that Carrier is facing," Sean P. Moylan, Carrier's assistant general counsel, said as the company rejected the 2003 incentive offer."
The company's decision angered New York's two U.S. senators at the time, Hillary Clinton and Charles Schumer. Schumer bristled that Carrier had "turned its back on us, and we will not soon forget it."
The manufacturing plants, which helped Carrier employ about 7,000 Central New Yorkers at its peak, have been bulldozed.
https://www.syracuse.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/12/when_carrier_killed_...
18
@Woof
So if it isn't by Krugman you are all for it, but when Krugman writes you scold. It strikes me as sour grapes which is exactly what I suspected it was.
By the way, why the alias? Someone who bad mouths a Nobel Laureate might have the courage of their convictions and reveal their identity. Until then, I don't believe anything you write, including what you claim to study.
5
@Woof: I finished my undergraduate work in Syracuse. It is still the 'Carrier Dome,' isn't it?
Nice source of revenue that franchising deal, hollow as it may be, though, eh? Remind you of anyone?
3
When appropriate tariffs raise the cost of imported air-conditioners either we will get used to being warm, or an American-made AC will start up.
Yep, it will be more expensive. How much is too much for standing up for US labor?
But as the new manufacturing economy grows, rust belt cities begin to be renewed, generational unemployment will end. The costs that the Sociopathy supported by SEIU members will plunge. Taxes will be cut.
Want to tax the rich? Go for tariffs. Let the rich pay the tariffs and duties. We can make do for awhile. It will take a brief period of higher cost for most imported goods. But that will be balanced by lower taxes.
Elections have consequences and the Carrier employees are finding out they were sold snake oil by the carnival barker. Learn from your mistakes for the next election!
28
From what I understand the company or jobs were never saved by Trump; another one of his embellishments claiming credit were none was owed or due. Standard Trumpian playbook stuff . . .
40
To all employees have a backup plan and never ever believe the corporate propaganda.
52
Indiana has a a crucial Senate seat up for grabs in November. I wonder how many of these carrier workers are going to vote Republican?
57
I am self employed for 35 years. never had a handout or any government intervention when things were tough.
sorry to hear that your pied piper led you over the cliff.
did you really expect a different result?
30
I have an idea, fire the people who aren't showing up for their jobs! Oh, wait you can't, they're unionized.
Well let's pretend they can be fired, and you could hire folks who would show up for a full days work. Oh, right they'd be those darn immigrants that keep stealing their jobs. The jobs they're too good for apparently. The people that aren't showing up, what are the odds they voted for Trump? About 100%!
17
@A Stefan
I have been pro-union for 20 of my 30 years as a manager in the nuclear industry married to a miner. I saw how important it was to give workers a voice, particularly on safety. My current job is managing USW employees and I am so disillusioned. Our productivity is rotten and countless thousands are spent on trying to dismiss the worst only to have them reinstated during arbitration. Another institution infested with corruption.
7
It is hard to find new employees who are willing to work a forced 60 hour work week every week to replace those who take an occasional absence.
6
Nothing encourages a company to stay put like absenteeism that delays production.
MAGA baby
19
Trump has always been sizzle with no substance.
26
My 30 plus years experience as a cook and 20 years as a salaried chef has taught me one thing: some people just can't get out of their own way. I couldn't begin to describe the whining, the hangovers and the lame excuses from staff unwilling to pull their weight. All the world is a stage my friends, when you clock in you better the play the part your were cast. If you don't clock in you're off the playbill.
65
With morale low, I would worry about the quality of the furnaces made there.
36
"Paychecks are a tad fatter" isn't true when inflation is factored in.
In fact, a Bloomberg story today by Reade Pickett - "American Workers Just Got A Pay Cut in Economy Trump Call Great" shows that average hourly earning actually fell by 0.2 % from a year ago when adjusted for inflation.
Put another way, if you make $1.05 today, but that $1.05 only buys what $.90 bought last year, then the wage increase is not keeping up with inflation and you are actually worse off then last year.
I bet the owners at Carrier got raises in advance of Inflation though and the wage grade employees can feel that.
21
Indiana University should send a team of industrial psychologists to study the situation and try to teach better coping skills to the employees and management.
5
They might suggest not forcing employees to work 60 hours every week. They might suggest getting more employees. Carrier would rather pay death benefits and overtime than have a livable schedule.
9
I can read the tweet now:
"those carrier workers are ungrateful should be fired. i saved their jobs. must be democrats!!!"
54
@Stan Carlisle Brilliant!
4
....”Ms. Rowan is like many other blue-collar workers in that her earning power has diminished over time. Her top hourly rate at Ford, where she worked for 18 years, was $28.24 an hour, and with overtime, her annual salary peaked at $86,000. During her best year at Carrier, she earned just half that.”
Thank American style capitalism & Republican politicians for creating the conditions that have gutted the working & middle class- segments of society that actually had upward mobility ( in the last century ) & that saw better earning power in the 1980’s. Besides not preparing America’s workforce for a whole new world brought about by globalization - politicians & their corporate backers decided that it was ok to do away with pensions & decent benefits. And then we can’t forget about that unfunded trillion dollars never ending gulf war & that simultaneous tax break for the rich in the 90’s that America could not afford. There are reasons why 1% of the populace has 90% of the wealth. Somebody has got to pay for this Redistribution of America’s collective wealth to the rich.
And that obviously is the 90% of us that have 1% of the wealth. Yet a majority of these workers, their friend & family have identified as voting Republican. Talk about dumb.
"I love the poorly educated." - Donald J. Trump
313
@KeepCalmCarryOn: I agree with everything you said except the 1990's tax cut? I remember a middle class tax cut, but the GW 2000's tax cut for the rich plus two unfunded wars helped contribute to where we're at now. Since a good deal of the American population seems get amnesia about who really fixes the economy after a recession, blames the GOP for our current woes.
1
@KeepCalmCarryOn
Why should some uneducated widget-turner feel entitled to $80k plus benefits? Absurd expectations in the global world of 2018.
I remember when I was a kid the dream of the futurists was that by this time increases in automation and productivity would have us all working full time, twenty hour work weeks with the rest left for leisure. Sadly, those productivity gains have mostly been achieved but Americans are working longer and earning less while a handful of individuals at the top enjoy all the leisure.
74
I suspect the reasons for absenteeism are pretty much the same as those I saw (and acted on) about 50 years ago in western Michigan.
I was a "repiler" in a carton factory (that make the boxes for things like breakfast cereals). My union job was low paying, so low that finding people to do it was hard. I worked my legal straight-time max of 40 hours, but was required to work 7 days a week, 12 hours a day, at time and a half (from 40 to 60 hours), then double time, as the law demands. My boss would ask about 2 times a week if I would work 4 to 6 additional hours to cover for some missing workers (doing a different job).
Working that schedule, it does not take long before I took occasional "sick days". My job was short-term, so I did not need many such days. Those kind of hours grind you down. Some of my fellow employees called the bogus "sick days" "sanity days".
If Carrier hired more workers, and paid a more reasonable wage, they would have fewer problems with morale, with absenteeism, and with finding employees.
Carrier does not have a problem with its workforce. Carrier has a problem with its thinking.
756
@Mark Johnson Not if you can hire twice as many people at half the cost in Mexico.
5
@Mark Johnson I totally agree with your post that people working overtime day in and day out get to a point where they are found down. No wonder morale is poor -- people are exhausted! But this is what too many businesses do: hire and expect the workers to put in more and more. Why? Because business finds it's cheaper in the short term to pay a little more overtime than to hire another person and pay them a full wage. And people come to depend on the overtime (either that or they will get a second job) just to live a middle-class life.
What's a person in this situation to do? Nothing -- too exhausted to care. The business? Close down and move to Mexico or get another taxpayer-funded incentive to stay in the US if employee costs get too high.
Terrible situation we've gotten ourselves in Ollie.
I lived through the dot com boom and bust and that meant long, long hours and a lot of stress. After the bust it meant long hours, less money and less security. It never, ever occurred to me not to show up for work.
I feel for these people but they need to take some responsibility for their lives and that includes voting for people who will actually give a darn about them and provide more than empty promises.
74
My admiration for your diligence is diminished significantly by the fact that during both the dot com boom and bust, showing up for work meant camaraderie and foos ball. With a dose of liquid refreshment thrown in.
7
@GC - Not at any of the places I worked. More than once I bought my own dinner out of the vending machine while working till 9:00 or 10:00 at night and there certainly wasn't anything that qualified as entertainment.
There is a difference between manual labor versus working dot com. Working a forced 60 hours a week is abusive. If the only way to survive this torture is to take an unauthorized day off, it is understandable.
Interestingly, the author of the article lambasts the workers while Carrier states that absence is not a problem.
The workers do need to vote for those who will better defend their interests!
4
Just two observations, tangentially relevant though they may appear.
First, 'the booming Trump economy' is a fallacy. The economy is puttering along at about the same pace it has for the past eight years of the post 'Great Recession' expansion. Furthermore, the gains from the 'boom' are increasingly concentrated in the hands of the wealthy few. Money is making money, labor is not. In the last quarter, wages were up an anemic 2.7% from a year earlier. Corporate profits were up about 25%, thanks in large measure to the Republican tax cut package. Very little has 'trickled down,' despite very low unemployment. Furthermore, thanks to Trump's tariffs, the cost of goods will inevitably rise - so most workers can pretty much kiss whatever meagre benefit they may reap from the massive, deficit busting, inflationary tax cut package goodbye.
Second, while these Carrier workers may be 'demoralized' and ailing from free-floating anxiety and resentment, I promise you that recent immigrants - legal or not - would line up for miles to take these jobs, just as they perform other essential work Americans disdain, working in the fields and orchards, meat and poultry processing plants, housekeeping and kitchen staff, hospice care... And with the Republican Party gutting unions, the bargaining power of the American worker is just about nil.
These folks have every reason to be demoralized - they have been conned into picking up their own guns and blowing off their own big toes. It hurts.
378
And this is why the Republican Party loves the undereducated. They will follow the Pied Piper into the cave of empty promises as long as there is a scapegoat to blame, i.e. the Democratic Party. When will they ever learn?
18
@chambolle
And it was reported on the news yesterday that inflation is already running at 2.9% so so much for that 2.7% wage raise!
1
This was pretty confusing to read. People are not going to work because they think, "Why bother, they are going to shut down anyway?" So they need a job, have a job that pays more than they could get elsewhere but they decide not to show up. How bizarre.
Why doesn't Carrier lay off the no shows and recall the hundreds of people that were let go?
If I was working for a business earning more than I could elsewhere and had limited options, if I heard or thought that at some point in the maybe not so distant future the place was going to shut down, I'd take a much OT as I could get and drastically cut spending at home to save up for the inevitable.
This is what people voted for. Hard to feel bad.
103
It is a fascinating thing, learning about others people's lives and wondering. What would the Maynard's do for healthcare if Mr. Maynard was laid off at Carrier and there wasn't Obamacare which Hoosiers hate and have worked to destroy? They have 10 more years to work and it sounds as if Mrs. Maynard has a medical condition which might qualify as a pre-existing condition pre-Obamacare (before Obamacare). What would they do for healthcare? At their age you are looking at $12,000 a year premiums and if Obamacare didn't exist you'd be looking at $20,000 year premiums, that is, if they qualified. And again, it sounded as if Mrs. Maynard wouldn't qualify for insurance anywhere.
198
@Steve Actually, people who don't qualify for medicaid or subsidies are paying more for health insurance now than they did before Obamacare & frequently receiving less 'care' into the bargain. I know Obamacare has helped many poor people to survive, but it's been bad for the slightly more affluent.
2
@Steve Actually, under the ACA that was in effect before Trump came along and messed with it, pre-existing conditions could not lead to refusal of coverage. Also, if you have no or low income, you can either qualify for Medicaid or for lower premiums and deductibles on ACA plans. Also, it is not (or was not ) true that ACA insurance plans don't cover much of anything. ACA plans provided comprehensive coverage, including many screenings at no out-of-pocket cost to the consumer. Not sure how things work now that Trump has monkeyed around with the law.
5
@Jenifer Wolf Let me respond, because before I qualified for Medicare I was excluded from a group plan and had to buy my own. I went from $500 a month (pretty much everything covered, miniscule copays) to the same program which would have cost $900 a month. I opted for big deductible plan to keep the payments at $500 a month. So you are right about that. And that is why insurance companies are still in the marketplace, because they can rip us off.
On the other side of things, if you would have a preexisting condition, you don't have to worry about qualifying.
Truth is I probably underestimated what insurance would cost. With Obamacare, $24,000 a year (for two people if you are working, age 55) and without Obamacare impossible to get insurance (again, taking into account a preexisting condition).
I've worked both management and line. The workers are justified in not trusting the company. Given their druthers, the company would replace the workers with robots in an instant if they could. Part of this is human nature and the other part the result of excessive capitalism. The future for line workers is very cloudy.
79
@Psyfly John
line workers? how about teachers, nurses, and others that are being replaced by technology?
like it or not, companies intend to make money, not necessarily friends. the best do both - but there are not many that do.
6
What struck me is when the Carrier manager stated that the 7 million tax break Trump gave the company is going to mostly be used to develop robotics to replace the jobs and that current employees will not have the expertise to work the jobs that will be available. First, they are stating that the monies will not be used for the purpose that Trump agreed on. Second, whatever happened to on the job training? Essentially, nothing is being done to keep jobs in the US. A nationwide action plan needs to be in place to keep people earning a living wage during the current and future radical transformations around work that are occurring.
65
@Suzanne Wheat That's why Germany has an amazing technical and apprenticeship program nationwide that depends on public-private partnerships. But hey, we don't want to learn anything from those "socialists."
40
@Kathy. The GOP/Right Wing/Conservatives has learned and ably applied the pejorative "socialism" to everything against their own self interest to amazing effect.
@Suzanne Wheat: Hillary had a plan but no one wanted to listen, because, you know, those emails and Benghazi were so much more important...
5
" employees share a looming sense that a factory shutdown is inevitable — that Carrier has merely postponed the closing until a more politically opportune moment"
That is exactly what will happen.
Globalization was promoted by neoliberal economists with no understanding of its distributive effects.
" The truth about nafta may be summarized in five propositions:
nafta will have no effect on the number of jobs in the United States; nafta will not hurt and may help the environment; nafta will, however, produce only a small gain in overall U.S. real income"
Paul Krugman Foreign Affairs, Vol. 72, No. 5 1993), 14
"61% of the net job losses due to trade with Mexico under NAFTA, or 415,000 jobs, were relatively high paying manufacturing jobs."
Scott, Robert E. Economic Policy Institute. 3 May 2011.
And the thread to move the factory to Mexico in response to request for wage increases destroyed Union power
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/49/Union_Elections_Thr...
20
I feel for Nicole Hargrove. She seems hard working and disciplined. I have admiration and respect for her duty and perseverance.
Being dismayed or upset is no excuse not to show up to work. I wish she had a single-payer healthcare plan she could rely on, as she seems like the type of person who will work hard to always be on her feet.
42
I have to step off the compassion train on this one. Not trusting, not feelig secure as reasons not to come to work? There are many jobs that are insecure and not very lucrative---basic science researchers that depend on grant funding comes to mind---but you'll never see anyone not at the lab bench.
I would instead point to a changing culture where the work ethic barely exists. My present college students profess lofty career goals that would require postgraduate degrees yet they are no-shows in the classroom, adamantly refuse to study or come to class prepared and believe they should be pushed along because, frankly, that is what I believe their previous academic experiences were like. Scholarships often go unawarded but few want to 'bother' writing the required essay. The local newspaper in my semi-rural area is replete with articles citing employer complaints that they can't find employees willing to do the job. It's rare to be able to hire house repair people that actually show up or don't leave early because of alleged family emergencies or those who work one or two days then call the contractor to tell him they're quitting because they're too tired and the job is too much work. So you're $70K job is not making you feel secure? In this day and age nothing is secure.
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@Em That's interesting, but can't really generalize about the whole country. I've seen the stories where factories can't get people, then you find an article about how very unsafe these factories are and they fire people left and right and treat people like trash. Also, in many areas, it's hard to get out. They are older, hard to pick up and move away. Don't have social means or economic to leave. This is not meant as an excuse, but it happens. Surely, true, it's typically immigrants who work hard all day for little and unpleasant work. They are a big part of the engine of the economy and people born here are often spoiled and don't want to work hard or change their lives.
15
@Em I hear you about the no show students. While I don't paint with a broad brush the entire country, in talking to educators they tell me at the high school level there are students who don't show up for duties/activities the students committed to because ...they don't feel like it, it's Friday, etc. I had one student I awarded a two year community college scholarship thru an endowment who took forever to accept the award then he missed the deadline to accept the award for the second year so it was awarded to another student -the new student accepted immediately and is a real worker bee. Showing up is key but a seldom exercised concept nowadays.
17
@Em
You are enjoying a cushy college teaching job, yet you look down at folks forced to work 60 hours a week at an extremely arduous job.
You seem to be one of Marie Antoinette's kin.
I too was a university prof before I retired. However before becoming an academic I worked for years at a number of menial jobs. Teaching is a dream compared to those jobs...
Is that perhaps why you haven't caught on that if Carrier simply hired more people, they wouldn't have to force their present workers to labor 60 hours per week.
If employers like Carrier who benefits from a subsidy from my hard earned tax $ and the folks who tell you they cant find help to hire would pay decent wages and treat their employees with minimal respect and dont force them to work 60 hours week, they wouldn't have problem hiring the people they need.
2
Not to worry. Carrier will invest 16 million in that plant, nearly half of which was paid for with tax breaks. Guess what they will spend it on? Automation.
Now with the absenteeism problem, management has the perfect excuse to install robots to replace the workforce. They can't find enough people and the people they do have won't come to work.
Of course, Carrier could have dramatically boosted wages with the huge tax break Trump gave them. That didn't happen either.
I don't want to be mean and callous and say that the workers asked for it by supporting Trump. They were conned. But, white nationalism certainly played a part in their support.
You know what the irony of this is? If Carrier would import a sufficient number of Mexican immigrants to work alongside the white workers, that plant would be humming along. But then the locals would scream the Mexicans are taking their jobs. What a catch 22. They lose by winning, Trump style.
Now they have three possible outcomes. 1) The plant moves to Mexico. 2) They hire Mexicans to work there and keep the plant operating. 3) Or they all lose their jobs to automation. I vote for automation, all paid for with tax breaks. Moral of the story. Don't follow Trump.
404
@Bruce Rozenblit I agree with most everything you've said except that Carrier doesn't need any tax breaks. That's just the poor subsidizing the rich. We have too much of that going on already.
5
In general 20% of any given statistically significant population is addicted and that's because nobody is counting caffeine. Perhaps this is what's going on at Carrier. Take a deeper look.
19
@Merriel F Mandell Sounds more like a sick-out not addiction.
3
Trump and Pence as saviors of an American industrial company. What a nice picture. Good, that their faces are blurred. This gives them the chance to deny it.
But fun aside, Capitalism is and remains a scheme of exploitation. Why are reforms impossible in the United States?
60
Internationalization and automation are changing everything, big time. It's just beginning. A new economic paradyme is required. Dog eat dog, free-for-all, unregulated, poorly taxed, corporatism is no way to run a world. People over profits, period!
24
Employees not coming to work because they are depressed the factory might close most likely will create a self-fulfilling prophecy. They had an opportunity to show the value of American workers and are blowing it. How can they not realize that?
They are Trump supporters. That explains everything.
138
@Remiliscent The workers were already doing that when Carrier announced the plant closure. The workers now feel that management is untrustworthy and that their jobs are temporary. But they should be busy doing damage control and saving as much as possible and making sacrifices instead of staying home watching TV and eating potato chips. That's what I have always done because the faucet can be turned off at any moment no matter how hard you work.
9
@Remiliscent
Look at the sustained hours they were working. Nobody can sustain 12 hour days 6 or 7 days a week for long without either needing time off or dropping productivity.
I have worked these hours both in a factory and in R&D positions in startups. The difference is that in the factory, you can't back off, no "mini-breaks". In a startup, the design work was more demanding, more intellectually challenging, and more easily scheduled. (If the start-up succeeded, you could also hope get a million dollars in founder stock profits (assuming you sold at the right time). Much manual labor has some of the aspects of a design job--mechanics, tree-trimmers, carpenters, even gardeners "own" a larger fraction of the job, and have significant freedom of action. Assembly line workers do not.
45
@Suzanne Wheat 'the faucet can be turned off....' The more American workers accept that, the faster this nation will go down the drain.
The president of a local is supposed to be sure of what’s going on with his brothers and sisters and why.
14
Wait - the rest of us taxpayers paid how many hundreds of thousands of dollars per job in giveaways to Carrier - and y’all can’t even be bothered to show up?
201
@IJN
You would have gotten a lot more for your government "investment" by setting up retraining and funding small businesses started by the terminated employees.
Carrier just dropped the money on dividends, robots, and factories overseas, for the most part.
An investment to save jobs should focus on the workers, not on the bosses and shareholders.
30
@IJN As I recall when the deal was struck, basically to not lay off as many employees as Carrier had planned, it was the state of Indiana (Mike Pence, governor!) that offered the tax breaks. Of course, it was national Republicans who have rewarded carrier (United Technologies) with tax breaks at the federal level.
6
@IJN Not sure I understand your logic. Workers should show up because Carrier conned Indiana out of millions of dollars to speed up its relocation of jobs to Mexico? At least you're rid of Pence; now vote in someone who won't let something like that ever happen again.
3
I really can’t understand these people. Woe is me having to work. Put them in an urban center with a two hour commute on top of their work hours! You can be sure the Mexican people will be happy to have these jobs. Spare me the “rust belt” blues.
192
As someone who has managed factories around the world, a consistent experience that I have had is when I have had to reduce or close operations, is that all the employees were professional and did their best until the very end. To learn that the carrier facility is experiencing high absenteeism among those who continue to have desirable jobs is surprising. Employees blaming Carrier for a lost of trust to justify their absenteeism is dishonest and self serving. They deserve zero sympathy. If anything, it indicates that the factory has a core group of unproductive employees and Carrier's original decision to close or significantly restructure the plant was warranted. That will happen. Unfortunately, the "good" employees are the casualties.
33
@George Foo yeah sure, all the problems are with the employees--management is never an issue and always does the right thing.
1
So that's why their slogan is
"So if you're looking for a new furnace that was probably assembled correctly, then buy Carrier!"
9
Related to your comment, my first thought was how can I check where my furnace made at and why would I want to buy a Carrier, if the employees are overworked and likely to make a mistake while assembling the unit; and would I want to support a company that treats its employees like this?
15
Sadly, these same workers will likely continue to vote Republican despite the fact that the party has done nothing to help them survive, hard-times or good-times. No social safety net, no universal medical coverage, no help for college tuition. When will people wake up and smell the R stink in the air (and now, in our water)?
528
@MOB
Who cares if this is a factory where Trump showed up and claimed victory. How does that make people decide not to come to work?
Trump may or may not have had a hand in keeping the factory open for some period of time. That couldn't matter less. Show up and work at these good-paying jobs.
If the Union is in the way of helping get people hired who would show up, all they have done is help to doom their members who are trying to work.
3
@TDC
"If the Union is in the way of helping get people hired who would show up, all they have done is help to doom their members who are trying to work."
It is a "right to work" state ... the union is largely irrelevant (which may be part of the problem).
@MOB
We have seen this before beginning with Nixon's southern strategy. Divide and conquer. Convince the white voters that their problems are caused by others while destroying social programs that mostly benefit them and giving tax cuts to the very rich. Why do anything else if it has worked well for the last 50 years?
1
If Carrier would just hire, you know, immigrants, I bet they wouldn't have any problems at all.
The good Americans could keep their jobs. The immigrants could fill the jobs that, obviously, no good Americans want, and Carrier cold make a ton of money.
Trump could come back and claim all the credit all over again.
To my Liberal way of thinking immigrants, legal and un-, solve just about everything.
In a way, this is all Trump's fault, yes?
31
Let this be a lesson for other gullible workers, like coal miners, who supported Trump believing his lame promises. Many a lender and creditor also learned that while what Trump says can be taken to the bank, the bank will be closed.
227
That's what kills me.
I do get why people voted for Obama, then Trump. I don't agree with it, but I get it.
But there is a clear and undeniable 30+-yr trail of how inept and just what a bad businessman Trump is. It's a matter of public record and not hard to find. But too many people hear what they want to hear, and refuse to find out and follow it.
1
"sua sponte" in an article about blue collar labor woes? You guys crack me up...
51
t@michaelm The way one becomes educated is to expand one's horizons. Not that difficult to look up the definition, unless, of course, one thinks that becoming informed is snobbish and elitist.
Here you go: sua sponte: Latin for "of one's own accord; voluntarily."
That wasn't so hard, was it?
12
@michaelm You beat me to it!
Maybe the mandatory overtime, working 6 days a week, has something to do with the absenteeism.
564
It's called reality and doing a hard days work.. Those absentees should be working as much as they can, because they're right. As soon as Carrier sees a opportunity to close shop they will. Shame on those workers for being so selfish and irresponsible.. Check your feelings at the door and make your $$$
9
@Jo Ann Neusner
You think?
3
@Jo Ann Neusner. Sounds like very poor management, labor cannot do everything without the support of management....business people often have unrealistic expectations and no knowledge of how to motivate labor...the burn them out an repeal them approach is from the dark ages....look at the poor outcomes/results, is this what they teach the business majors in college? So wasteful.
1
Surely there are people in Indiana that would welcome a $24/hour manufacturing job and show up every day. Why not hire them instead?
Oh, yeah. It's a union plant. Showing up is optional.
6
@Jim
I have worked in a union plant in Michigan.
I would suggest that unexcused absenteeism will get you fired as fast or faster in a union plant than a non-union plant, and certainly faster than in a white-collar job. There is no Union contract I know of that forbids firing an assembly line worker for failing to work or failing to show up, or playing games with the time-clock. Your union rep will have a talk with you either before or after your foreman does should you miss work "suggesting" improved attendance.
The reason Carrier must tolerate unexcused absences is that they are offering undesirable jobs at undesirable pay levels, so can't replace problem employees easily.
124
@Jim That old canard. Unions brought you a 5-day work week ( most people), health benefits, and other things you enjoy. But then, you're in Tennessee. You do you.
42
THAT'S the way to keep the plant open, gang!
7
@Mtnman1963
Ummm...Not exactly the point.
What you see is what happens when the work-force realizes that there is nothing they can do to keep the plant open, to earn a raise, to get a better job. Their work effort will have no impact on the financial decision to close the plant.
Trump paid a huge bribe for a publicity stunt. None of the bribe went to those who were the "characters" in the stunt. They did not get raises. They did not get promotions. They did not get job security.
20
Read Hillbilly Elegy by J.D. Vance. Some of these folks sound like the ones he describes in his book. I wonder how many of them play the slots at casinos and buy lottery tickets, hoping to score big and quit working.
29
Carrier should reach out to find more reliable workers
but also consider why the workers are not showing up.
8
@John Brown
"Carrier should reach out to find more reliable workers"
They are in Mexico apparently and not in Indiana.
2
Hey, Indiana, that sure is a fancy-looking Trump University diploma you're holding.
Enjoy your delicious, nutritious snake oil and beautiful fresh lumps of 'clean' coal for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
You were warned about being conned....but you couldn't resist the cultured stupidity, could you ?
Enjoy.
752
@Socrates
Insult an entire state. Make no exceptions. If only everyone could be as enlightened and virtuous as you, what a wonderful world it would be.
5
@Socrates This comment is not worthy of your usual more thoughtful ones. While I intensely dislike Trump as well, it is just this sort of divisive attack that is ruining our country. You don't convince folks of your point of view by spitting on them.
Michelle Obama said, "When they go low, we go high." It is a good maxim to live by, in life and on the comments page.
7
@Socrates and add to this the residents of Tangier Island which is disappearing due to rising seas from climate change and you guessed it - solid Trump supporters
These Bible quoters need to be reminded "you reap what you sow" and that includes who you vote for
2
Thomas Carlyle, 1840: ""A fair day's wages for a fair day's work': it is as just a demand as governed men ever made of governing. It is the everlasting right of man."
35
@Michel Bedard
Thomas Carlyle wrote the Bible??
Well, who knew?
Her "Bible quote" is just like Abe Lincoln's quote about "don't believe everything you read on the Internet."
2
@slim1921
What?? Didn't you notice that it's in double quotes within the rest of the Carlyle-quote?
It is obviously a "saying" which he is quoting.
From the figures and information in the article it seems clear that the company downsized dramatically its personnel and the remaining employees are simply having to work way more hours (dividing the yearly salaries by the hourly rates provided in the article, it appears that the two workers who quote figures are working north of 50 and 60 hours/week) to make up for the personnel losses. Thus, it is no surprise at all that production declined and absenteeism increased, although in the accountancy sheets productivity has probably boomed.
Less workers left to do the same work means that, even if it translates in some production losses (from insufficient, overworked and demoralized personnel), financial productivity increases: even if you may end producing and selling less, you do so at much smaller personnel costs.
Thus nothing new under the sun. Just the usual output of increasing contable productivity through downsizing and financial engineering. Above 90% of companies who try the formula end being much worse off in five years (which will give the excuse to finally move to cheaper work markets), but in the interim they will have extracted all value, making some quick money, and taken advantage of the subsidies and tax cuts.
140
@Luis Cabo: Yes, good old corporate welfare at work here and these poor workers are killing themselves to make ends meet, while giving the workers the message that it's their fault the company will shut down the plant or move to full automation. Unfortunately, they buy it and their union does nothing to educate them about this.
3
There's just too much winning. I'd need time off as well.
410
@Chris If I could hit the recommend button a million times, Chris, I would. There is just too much winning going on! Much too much for my taste!
8
@Chris
Right!
If I can make my family's life better by going to work and making money - I'm going to go to work.
Shouldn't "uncertainty" make you even more motivated to work as much as possible?!?
How is this about politics?
4
@TDC
Because there's no underlying public policy to speak of, to ensure that any economic transitions don't mean families in that region suddenly have the rug pulled out from under them with no alternatives.
That Carrier plant will not last forever - not in that condition. And as noted, the salaries (note they're union jobs) can't be matched locally. Some of those people will end up with no job - and then no house, no prospects of making it better for their kids, no healthcare.
And, the way things are going, it will be replicated in a thousand places across the board - a drop in the overall standard of living. But the manufacturers, having no dog in that fight, can just move their markets overseas. Because the government won't do anything to stop them.
Not sure if you remember historic conditions in the late 19th century: periodic financial panics, meat-packing plants with rats running over the floors, young children working instead of going to school. Well, it's public policy that prevents all that. Globalization without any policy will make it worse.
Requiring employees to work until they drop is not the best way to build loyalty. But it is in line with the corporate view of its people not as humans, but as "resources."
665
@TexasTabby
Life on the assembly line at a marginal plant that perhaps should have been closed must be brutal. The higher the compensation for the workers, the greater the productivity must be. I feel sorry for everyone there, I understand the absenteeism.
4
@TexasTabby
As long as there is not a labor or skills shortage, working employees until they drop is a good way to do things -- unless you have to pay for picking them up again.
2
@TexasTabby
Yes, "...the corporate view of its people not as humans, but as 'resources', TexasTabby points out.
Back in the '80's "Personnel" departments were rebranded "Human Resources". My immediate reaction back then was how dehumanizing this was, that an employee was no different than a lump of coal, that an employee's "life" was no different than inanimate matter as far as running a business was concerned.
3
A society that does not trust it's business and government institutions and leaders will not last.
There is no law of Nature that insures trust or civilization, or any other human construct. It is up to us to guard against the downfall of trust and the rise of hopelessness.
We are failing at that task.
And certainty those that own and govern the means of production in the United States of America, and are fleecing the common citizen to the point of spiritual and financial ruin, are hastening the downfall of our nation.
MB
73
@Michael Bain
We do not trust our business and government institutions because they are untrustworthy. Back when we trusted them more, they were still untrustworthy. When they refused to deal with their problems, we accepted that refusal and joined in by pretending that there were no problems and blaming our decline on those who pointed the problems out. After Watergate, Nixon was pardoned and soon it was Morning in America.
If you have trust of untrustworthy institutions, you get Russia --- or Trumpland.
6
@Michael BainTrust is the coin of the realm.
I simply cannot understand the thought processes of people in Red states like Indiana, and the workers at Carrier's Indianapolis plant in particular. These workers have no decent job alternatives to Carrier, but instead of showing up for work at their reasonably-paying jobs, they engage in absenteeism, thereby tempting the company to fire them, and ultimately forcing Carrier to conclude that moving the plant to Mexico is the only strategy that makes sense.
Needless to say, if Trump had kept his campaign promise and pushed for a $1 trillion infrastructure plan -- instead of a $1.3 trillion tax cut for the wealthy -- the economy would have leaped ahead, and workers everywhere would be feeling a lot more optimistic, no doubt including the workers at Carrier.
I blame every worker at Carrier who voted for Trump for their current situation. They placed a huge bet on a known charlatan/carnival barker, on the theory that it's possible to get something for nothing. Now, they've found out that Trump's promises are false at best (they may not believe this intellectually, but their behavior shows that they know it in their gut), and that all too soon Carrier is going to follow through with shutting down the plant.
1093
@ALB Many of the sorrows in Trump Territory are self-made, but they expect the rest of us to make them right. I say that as someone from Indiana. I do want to point out that Indianapolis and Marion County are not really Trump Territory, but these Carrier workers certainly live there, at least figuratively.
20
@ALB
The US economy is leaping ahead, and it is because of the tax cuts, and it is because of increased demand and increased investment by people doing what they want to do. Infrastructure speeding should be done as and when needed, at the lowest possible cost, not as a pork-barrel boon-doggle where the goal is simply to spend the money to stimulate the economy.
@ALB
Proud people who know they are powerless will sometimes not be too logical or practical. Bernie would have tried to get them some power (that is what his political revolution was about), but he was not on the ballot. Hillary might have done things for them, but for her the main power they should have is the vote.
4
“The Bible says an honest day’s work for an honest day’s pay, and I try to live by that.”
Actually, the Bible doesn't say that. It's a good maxim to live by, but it is not a quote from the Bible.
776
@Doc Who - Several places in the Bible state "the workman is worthy of his hire," from which this maxim is drawn.
@Doc Who
Those "dignity of work" slogans were invented by owners and managers to con workers into putting up with lousy jobs.
7
@Doc Who. So much for the so called religious folk who don't know the Bible from Poor Richard's Almanac. Yes it's good advice but not the word of God, just common sense.
4
"sheer exhaustion" is probably a big factor in the absentee rate-and it would be helpful to know what the average hourly wage at the factory is-that may be a factor too. There really isn't any "company loyalty" today-and there shouldn't be. Companies move factories or announce layoffs without much, if any, consideration of the impact on their soon to be former employees.
165
Look at the terms of the deal: "They worked out terms: Carrier would lay off 632 of its roughly 1,350 blue-collar employees in Indianapolis, but in exchange for $7 million in tax breaks, it would keep the plant open and invest $16 million in new equipment. A little more than half of the workers would keep their jobs."
I'm looking at the "$16 million in new equipment" subsidized by Indiana tax dollars.
The new equipment is automation. Automation means fewer workers to produce the product.
The factory will stay, which isn't a bad thing, but it will be a factory needing fewer workers.
So to recap: half the workers are fired immediately, and the other half watch their own tax dollars used to pay for the machines that will eventually replace them. And the politicians declared themselves satisfied and implicitly told workers they shouldn't expect better...in fact, it was the best deal that Trump/Pence got for workers ever, and it stunk. What's to like?
1155
@Yeah-Indiana taxpayers have been taken to the cleaners on this deal. What's to celebrate: Carrier gets a taxpayer bailout while its parent company, UTC--worth $88.5 billion--achieves its most profitable year.
259
@Yeah And Hoosiers are bewildered that the state, once fairly well off, is now in the bottom 20% of Ameican states by wealth. Well, savvy Hoosiers probably aren't bewildered.
51
@Ken Childers "Savvy Hoosiers?"
Make American Grim Again. I hope these workers think carefully about who they'll vote for in November.
598
Keep dreaming. They’ll vote trump/republican again and again and again . . .
99
@Allen Drachir Before they think carefully, they'll have to think at all ...
16
@Allen Drachir
Really? Why would they blame Trump? Were it not for him they would have been fired. If they don't want to continue to work for Carrier they can quit. Trump did what he could. Hillary would have done nothing.
1