Given evangelical Christians hypocrisy in providing "mulligans" to President Trump for his decidedly immoral behavior (foul language, vicious attacks, porn stars, marital infidelity, lying, corruption, etc.,) it is no surprise the good folks at Willow Creek also turned a blind eye to Hybel's abhorrent behavior. It's a mystery why Christian church attendance has been dropping like a rock for years. If there was only some clue.
30
Any alleged Christian who supports Trump and Republican leaders doesn't really know Christian teachings. As for many "Christian leaders," their words and actions place them more properly as followers of Judas, not followers of Jesus.
14
Yet another story of human frailty. Okay, I can live with that. The thing is, what is this endemic lying? Trump lies, Weinstein lies, this guy lies, etc., etc. If there is anything that marks someone as a spiritual person, it is a commitment to speaking the truth. Trump is just a materialistic boor. Why would a supposedly devout pastor lie?
9
Evangelicals, go help the homeless for the two hours a week you spend in church. Endless scandals and hand wringing are wearing thin. Do something concrete for those in need.
23
How does anyone buy into these snake oil salesmen?
33
Power corrupts.
8
OK, now I better understand why evangelicals support Trump.
when there's smoke there's fire.
4
It seems likely that the absence of divine retribution to these kinds of atrocities is prima facie evidence of the non-existence of god.
10
Church members need to stop putting "charismatic" pastors into the pulpit. That charismatic trait is often linked to personality disorders and predatory behaviors.
25
Ok whatever he's forgiven. More important matters; if you want to be part of Success Theology, just send us $250 for this prayer cloth!
10
Let’s not condemn all for the sins of a few. I am Jewish, a liberal democrat, and lived in Winnetka, IL where many of these congregants live. The friends I had who were members volunteered hours of their time to the needy, even one taking in babies of drug addicted mothers until their mothers could care for them. There are many wonderful, kind, good hearted people who belong to Willow Creek. Just like not all Muslims are radical extremists, not all Christians are narrow minded philistines!
30
Unfortunately for the Evangelical Community, Mike Pence is their ultimate face and voice.
The stench of Pence's cruelty and hypocritical piety is so strong that the average American secular citizen like myself can only step back from Evangelicals in their entirety with distrust and disdain.
24
Psalm 51
51 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
2
Goodbye, good luck!! Just another in a long stream of "I am holier than thou"-ers who aren't, and almost certainly never were.
Then to read this:
"Ms. Larson and the nine members of the elder board resigned on Wednesday night, saying that they had made a mistake by failing to believe the women who accused Mr. Hybels of sexual misconduct over many years.
“We viewed the allegations through a lens of trust we had in Bill, and this clouded our judgment,” said Missy Rasmussen, the elder who announced the resignations to a stunned congregation on Wednesday night."
And then this: "But he cast himself as the victim of the accusers, saying that people were colluding against him to tear down his reputation. Many members seemed sympathetic."
...says all of this sordid charade actually IS right there in the same deluded, blind faith swamp with Trump and Trumpism and his "followers". This group attempted to portray themselves as "moderate"?? Baloney! Gimmee a break!!
9
Corruption in churches? Of course. Corruption in Christian schools? OF course. I like giving public money to Christian schools, and having no way to evaluate or complain when there physics classes turn out 5 thousand year history of the Earth, and pi is 3. I hope the schools there can pray about algebra, or learning how to conjugate 'begots', and that if you are wearing cloth of two materials, you are a sinner.
5
We must acknowledge that many who claim to be Christians are not legitimate. They may adhere to all the traditions and rituals of their particular branch of the Christian Faith but their religion is only superficial. Jesus Christ says in ( Matthew 7:21 ) " Not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."
5
Here's the most relevant lesson: if one wants to be a Christian, churches aren't necessary, let alone the business of megachurches, and leaders aren't needed at all.
11
Mr. Graham - when you see a falling star it an asteroid or small rock particle entering the earths atmosphere. It is not a Star like those in a Galaxy which are Suns and Planets. It is not a "literal star". This is a horrible analogy.
We know this because of science. Try it out someday.
10
These comments are very hateful and bigoted. To take the individual actions of one person or one group and use them to make generalizations about an entire sector is wrong. It's wrong when one takes the action of a single minority and prescribes it to an entire race, when the actions of one Jew are ascribed to all of Judaism, when one terrorist of Islamic descent is used to attack all Muslims around the globe. I realize that the people in question here are white, upwardly mobile, and have a lot of privilege, but that doesn't make desecrating all evangelicals defensible. And it's horrifying that people seem to take glee in the hurt being felt by many evangelicals.
Bill was a force of good in the secular and Christian world; but he was also deeply flawed and clearly hurt many women. His elevated status means that the damage he has done to the very movement he helped created is going to be very severe--as evidence by the comments here.
I think we can condemn his behavior, offer our support to his victims, and pray that he finds a way to make amends first and foremost with his victims and finds an appropriate way to help others.
6
Ha ha ha. They still all talk about the pain of the leader who has lost his reputation and the congregation is devasted. Something very wrong here. Not an ounce of compassion or thought for the victims of this narcissist. When will people see these leaders with feet of clay.
And just to add that someday (soon I hope) we will find out about all the woman Trump has had at Mar-a-Lago and his other golf courses. He has always used his power (and now he has more than anyone in the world) to get women into bed. Why would that have changed?
10
I don't understand how people could be shocked?! Even if they allow women to hold executive positions, it is nowhere close to numbers proportional to their congregations. It still is a patriarchy and until that changes, every church is likely to have a repeat of Willow Creek and almost all have an ugly past similar, if not worse, than Willow Creek.
Reform is needed by giving women an equal representation at the table. If religion is to remain relevant by the end of the century, it will need to get rid of the patriarchy.
11
Evangelical churches often form around a charismatic male personality. The churchgoers, and the male leader, believe they've got something exciting and special at their church. They believe it's from God. They attract more people. The "giving" increases. Membership increases...and they grow and grow.....and nobody questions that it's God behind it. Except that, in my experience, it's mainly the male leader's charismatic personality that provides the energy. And like so many others, his power corrupts. But nobody sees it, because they're trained to believe him and NOT think for themselves; that goes for both women AND men. It happens over...and over...and over again.
16
I am an atheist and a feminist. I think patriarchal systems incorporate corruption into their foundations. I am also a citizen who would like keep Church and State entirely separate.
However, commenters here are painting with a very broad brush. The Pastor may have been corrupt, the elders in this case may have been cowards, but I know for a fact that Willow Creek Church members at that location have been remarkably generous and caring both in terms of volunteer work and financial support to many in need. And I mean hands-on, hands-dirty work, not superior benevolence. I have been impressed by the decency and sincerity of the few members I know well, so the church can't be an complete failure as comments here imply.
13
I think this says more about the adverse effect of power than anything else. Those who head religious organizations obviously are often included in this matter of power corruption; and they’re flawed like the rest of us, as much as many of their admirers almost can’t stand to admit that.
4
this incident is an object lesson in the fact
that sexual misconduct transcends all
religious boundaries. the Catholic church
allowed ,and may still allow,this to go on
for decades and some people said if only
they got rid of celibacy for priests, things
would get better.well,here is an example
of married ministers,including a woman,
either engaging in abuse or looking the
other way. human nature is flawed and
these institutions must be constantly on
watch to make sure that these" divines"
of any faith do not get away with it.
9
The job description of a clergyperson must be redefined: It is someone whose job is to bring parishoners together to discuss how they can be better people, how they can best serve their fellow man. Forget "preaching," forget politics. . . if I am a Christian, how do I make the lives of those worse off than me better? Let's all say the Lord's Prayer, then go forth and do what Jesus would do. And come back next week a better person.
The rest is dressing up and playacting.
6
" Christians worldwide looked to it as a model of smart leadership."
You should have said "evangelical Christians". I'm a Methodist and I never heard of him.
19
Religious hierarchies and long histories of sexual abuse, invariably covered up by some fellow members of the same institutions under the guise of good intentions.
I’m beginning to think that there may be a pattern here.
7
Not to defend these folks, but for as long as humans have existed, plenty of people who are NOT religious have also discounted women's stories of harassment and assault. It's a non-sectarian failing, and while it afflicts mostly men, I've heard plenty of women fall into it as well -- especially when the accused person is someone they like or admire as in this case.
8
The news grieves me. As Christians we should do better. True, we are saved by Grace. True, we can be forgiven. But a preacher of the Word is held to a much higher standard, both practically and Biblically. I have always been suspect of the easy, folksy, self-indulgent style of the mega church pastor. He is lot leading a church, he is leading a virtual city. Insulation from the commons person jades such people, and the pressures make them vulnerable. But the telltale sign, or risk, in these situations is the preaching. The liberals become more so, perhaps justifying their misogyny by being overly accommodating. But the super conservatives are at risk as well through legalism. As in the Shakespearean “the lady doth protest too much.” Keep it accountable, small, and most importantly Biblical.
Hi. I'm a Christian. I didn't vote for Trump and I don't endorse any of his actions or really those of his staff and people he's brought on to work with him. Bill Hybels actions and the way the church dealt with it were wrong, and he should be seriously disciplined. I do also believe that God Himself with deal with Bill, because what Bill did was a terrible sin. Someone who says that they are a Christian but who do not live lives of patience, love, respect, generosity, hope, faith, and peace (or at least make daily honest attempts to live this way, and ask for forgiveness quickly and often) are not Christians at all. Being a Christian isn't about being "special" or "set apart" from the rest of human beings. Christians are simply people who believe in the God that is written about in the Bible and believe that He is who He says He is and will restore this whole world to the way it was made to be. A world without pain, or loss, or pollution, or global warming, or extinct species or rape or murder or war or famine. It will be the world that we ALL want and most of us don't dare hope for. There are many Christians I have observed in my 36 years of life who are quietly living their lives, working for peace and love in their communities and around the world. But at the same time, throughout history, many "Christians" have done terrible things. And it's not right, and it's not from God.
10
Where do guys like Hybels comes from from? How do they rise in the church hierarchy? Why are they rich? Why are thousands of followers so gullible, hand over their money?
Religion needs to be studied as a natural phenomenon.
Religion needs to be subjected to embarrassing, awkward, probing analysis that scientific naturalistic investigation calls for, the same as we subject global warning, economy, etc to.
Religions all make the same mistake. They all take the only real faculty we have, that distinguishes us from other primates, the faculty of reason, and the willingness to take any risk that reason demands of it, and they replace that with the idea that faith is a virtue.
We must disassociate the idea of faith from virtue. Expose it for what it is, a servile weakness, a refuge in cowardice, and a willingness to follow with credulity people who are in the highest degree unscrupulous.
2
My sister and her family have attended Willow Creek church for a long time. Many years ago I attended a service with my sister and her family, after which my sister made a point of introducing me to Bill Hybels. He immediately struck me as a person that was full of himself.
What I remember about that day was that they were getting ready to break ground on a major expansion. The service was very short, simple and well, rang hollow. Then they went into an elaborate presentation of the history of the church and how great the church and it's leaders were.
So these revelations do not surprise me. And I do not give credit to pastors and elders who only admit the truth when it can no longer be denied. But I do respect that they at least feel shame for their part in protecting and enabling Rev. Hybels in his bad behavior. There are a number of people in the White House who should consider their example.
10
Stunned? The same evangelicals who embraced the President regardless of his past and present behavior are surprised that their leadership exhibited the same behavior? I have lost respect for them — time for them to clean house. The money and politics have led them astray.
2
When preachers wanted to hug my wife (when we were young), she would put her hand out in front and push them away. But evangelicals seem to tolerate such behavior, and admire a president who is famous for not being faithful to a particular wife either.
5
I must confess that I was taken aback when a clergyman from one of our mainstream churches told me of the boasting he had heard at a conference of ministers of their sexual affairs with women in their congregations.
7
The fact that powerful religious institutions respond to accusations of serious sexual misconduct in the exact same way as powerful secular or commercial institutions, employing strategies of denial, secrecy, evasion and character assassination, should tell the neutral observer everything they need to know about the sincerity (or lack thereof) of their professed beliefs.
Such institutions only do the right thing as a last resort, when exposed by the victims and diligent and brave reporters, who clearly dedicate themselves to a higher moral code.
34
Patriarchal entitlement isn't denominational. It's not even limited to Christianity. Or white males. Patriarchy comes in myriad forms, but boy howdy, white male christians sure do provide their own brand of it. Jeff Sessions thinks secularism is a danger to christianity when the reality is that danger is really the inherent patriarchy. Martin Luther King said it best: The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.
46
In “the truth of salvation” is the everpresent and lasting hope of all history and humanity: to save something, to leave more, to share and grow, in peace and grace. Evangelicals ignore this fact! Their worship and fetish of Trump is wrong. Black pastors at the White House proved so as they were used and shunned.
19
"But he cast himself as the victim of the accusers, saying that people were colluding against him to tear down his reputation. Many members seemed sympathetic."
For a group that "occupies a separate sphere" from Trump-supporting evangelicals - it's remarkable how they react exactly the same way when they get caught.
46
Stunned? I'm not sure why anyone would be stunned by this. It's about time honorable Christians start standing up to be counted, denounce the evangelical focus on politics, denounce the evangelical obsession with attempting to force their lifestyle and beliefs on the rest of the country, denounce greed and the prosperity gospel, and start behaving like the man they claim to worship. This lot and others like them are the reason secularism and atheism are on the rise.
65
Great comment. Although I do not think that that is the main reason for the rise of atheism. In my opinion atheism gained „popularity“ because the generation is socialized differently, especially in the way science plays a role in the upbringing of a child, where they are confronted by two different ways to perceive reality and where science obviously is much more credible and sensible.
14
@Diane - Ah, no. Secularism and atheism (which is not a belief set) are on the rise because the zombie idea that gods exist is untrue, and people know it. Including you.
4
If you are " stunned ", you haven't been paying attention. And that's putting it very politely. Get a real life, and use your time doing something, Anything, USEFUL. Seriously.
37
Momentum is more than wins or loses--even all Democratic wins cannot stop the horrendous use of executive powers by Trump others in the White House left dormant. Through rule making and de-regulation, the Executive branch has attacked protections, fair use provisions, and safety with a personal vengence: picking winners among special interests, attacking American businesses, favoring cronies as a shadow government making decisions, not identifying how the size of tariff revenues or how they will be used.
Instead of party, let's talk policy.
Instead of being entertained, let's talk about how to sustain!
Instead of dividing in fear, let's build communities of peace where love wins.
9
I appeal to Ms. Goodstein to carry her research just a bit farther so that she can tell us the size of the golden parachutes all these people will carry away.
52
Could somebody please explain to the Reverend Graham that it's not a "literal star" that falls from the sky, thank God.
That would destroy us all.
The Reverend should stick to promoting creationism or the search for Noah's Ark. That would more than adequately demonstrate how stupid he and his cronies are.
32
@Steve Bright Reverend Graham would better serve his flock by searching for Noah's Ark, but his silly explanation seems intended to divert attention from the decay of certain churches that use "religion" as a convenient tax dodge, like Focus on the Family, which violates its non-profit status through partisan politics, and pretending they are just participating in the "public square." Nonsense!
3
@Steve Bright
The search for Noah's arc?? They have already found it. I've seen videos on YouTube.
1
The label, evangelical christians, seems contradictory to me. A true Christain, someone who actually follows Christ's most defining precept of "Love your neighbor", wou,d not support a serial adulterer, liar, cheat, and racist. Those who do might be more accurately described as "evangelocrites"
47
Typical evangelicals. They are a scourge in our democracy and would sell their souls to establish a corporate Christian theocracy. As they already have. True Christians, where are you?
41
Today’s evangelicals would boo Jesus off the stage, what with all His liberal notions.
89
@Greg Barison
But to be fair so would most of the rest of us. Very few not only live by the golden rule, but also give our all without expectation of some sort of worldly reward...I'm just saying.
1
Issues of power dynamics and sexual improprieties were addressed by most mainline Protestant denominations more than a decade ago. Most now require ministers to attend Boundary Training workshops every few years in order to maintain their ministerial standing. One of the weaknesses of independent churches like Willow Creek, is that they lack such denominationally-enforced structures of accountability. The societal changes regarding gender roles in leadership and power dynamics are normally slower to catch on in evangelical circles where patriarchy still is present to a much greater degree than in mainline denominations. Cultural mores often change more rapidly than theological and ethical thinking and practice. That's why to some of us from the mainline, what happened at Willow Creek, while very sad for all affected, is not at all surprising.
26
"...There are few bigger names in the evangelical world than Mr. Hybels, and few churches more influential than Willow Creek."
Is it at least a small sign of the receding significance of "the evangelical world" that I had not heard of either?
Jerry Falwell... Pat Robertson... Tammy Faye Baker... thems I had heard of.
23
Evangelicals may be stunned, but I'm not surprised in the least.
24
To keep this from happening, all clergy should be female. This abuse of women is constant and the only way to stop it is to remove from influence/power the men.
19
@kw, nurse Except female "clergy" is not in God's design. Check the Bible. It's in Timothy among other places.
@kw, nurse
Female, sure. But no lesbians. There could still be sexual harassment.
1
As long as evangelicals continue to teach total submission of women and the ultimate authority of men, this will continue. Women will not have agency to say no.
37
@jwfaller
Please name one religion or theology that is not patriarchal. From the Stone Age forwards, men have created and integrated into almost all societies the concept of the superiority of the male in most aspects of human life, religion, and endeavors. The very few extant matriarchal societies fell to the male sword to be nothing but minor sidelights in anthropologists’ studies today. Few patriarchal religions truly practice and espouse the Golden Rule to include females.
1
You seem to be conflating the concepts of “evangelical” and “fundamentalist”. Evangelical Christians need not be fundamentalists and most are not. See this link from a Frontline episode if you’re interested in the differences between them: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jesus/evangelicals/vs.html
Another comment. It seems like the NYTimes and many other publications tend to present only wacky Christians from evangelical political churches. They don't focus on the people who I feel are true Christians, people who are not bigoted or venal, who focus on anti-poverty programs, who try to nourish the hungry and treat others as they themselves wish to be treated. I think it's important to keep a focus on these Christians, and not the political mega churches or the hate spewing evangelicals. For one thing, there are so many good, true Christians who are being tainted (no Mike Huckabee, I don't mean you). For another, if people growing up in these isolated bubble communities don't know of alternatives, how can young people or disaffected people, be steered toward a better choice.
15
@Paolo, Based on
observations made over several decades, I think almost all Christians see their church as "the one true church."
9
One pastor is quoted as saying that "he worried that people would view the scandal as evidence that all evangelicals were hypocrites.”
Well, he’s right, I do. Especially in view of the following:
"Ms. Larson and the nine members of the elder board resigned on Wednesday night, saying that they had made a mistake by failing to believe the women who accused Mr. Hybels of sexual misconduct over many years.”
That’s not a mistake. Those were deliberate decisions "over many years" to protect their leader, and allow him to continue to prey on his victims, as he presumably continued to preach. Beyond abhorrent. But hypocrisy is a good label to start with.
80
The genius of Christianity is that the offender is NEVER really held accountable for his offenses. He can always feign repentance, claim forgiveness from Jesus, and if the other sheep in his flock agree, he is forgiven, and even applauded, while his victims are forgotten. More importantly, it is noteworthy that sexual assault did not even make God's top ten list for sins...but a man coveting another man's wife did make the list. I am currently reading the 2013 translation of the collection of mid-14th century stories know as the Decameron, in which the Roman Catholic clergy is slammed by the author over and over again. Protestant clergy, especially evangelicals, like to think they are better than Catholics, that they overturned a wicked and sinful system. But evangelical clergy are every bit as wicked and sinful as anyone who preceded them.
57
@Jay David
The Bible is very clear on accountability. The Apostle Paul wrote several verses on the accountability of church leaders. It's not Christianity which is at fault.
2
The "evangelical world" may be stunned, but many of the rest of us are not surprised in the least.
Follow-up story idea: what kind of pension or retirement benefits will these people draw from church funds contributed by those same stunned parishioners?
70
Somehow, I'm not stunned. I think validated would be a more appropriate word. When people are running a business based on a lot of lies, further lies and hypocrisy should be expected.
41
All the egregious hypocrisy reminds me of the old joke: If you take one evangelical on a fishing trip with you, he will drink all of the liquor. If you take two evangelicals with you, neither one of them will touch a drop.
68
"Pastors should not succumb to temptation" sure is a twisted way to say "sexual predators have no business being pastors."
70
I don't believe you should still address Bill Hybel as Reverend. He doesn't deserve that title of respect after what he has done.
24
In a make believe world, you find make believe leadership.
People who think foisting their views on others is OK, need an occasional wake up moment.
36
"Never trust a preacher with more than two suits."
- Lenny Bruce
81
This particular scandal may have stunned evangelicals, but I doubt it's much of a surprise to the rest of us.
133
The problem is not only about individual men’s behavior, whether they be pastors or politicians, it is with patriarchal religious ideology.
When you created a belief system and implement a social order based on the supremacy of men that directly emanates from a male godhead, you essentially entrench the subordination of women and the female...all things not male. The entitlement and abuse is baked into the pie and cannot be separated out.
The problem IS the religion.
87
@Maria - Amen.
My sister belongs to one of these churches. I had to listen to her tell me that God wants men to be in charge and this is why she didn't go back to college and doesn't work outside the home.
Her husband lets her work part time for his company (unpaid of course) in order for her to have plenty of time to clean the house and cook for him.
43
@Maria You are so right! Jesus was a feminist of the best sort - caring, nurturing, supportive, not judgmental of the poor, etc. - but most evangelicals refuse to acknowledge this, to say the least. They prefer Paul's misogyny and male dominance, and actually teach that women are the cause of original sin, the downfall of humankind, our alienation from Eden/paradise/God, etc. The evangelical view is that women need men to keep women in line and out of trouble - It is the worst sort of negativity for any woman to profess support for this "faith" since it reeks of low self-esteem, and negates the idea that women can attain success and personal fulfillment in their own right. Evangelicals might do better to lose the writings of Paul and pay attention to the Beatitudes and Sermon on the Mount.
7
Evangelicals support Trump. Everything they claim to be is a lie. They say they love, when they support hate, they say they serve when they aggressively seek power and money, they say they are humble when they are filled with arrogance and white superiority, they say they put Christ first, when they openly defy everything he taught. They are all pharisees, those that Christ called "a child of hell." At this point in the US, there is nothing more disgusting than an evangelical christian.
101
To evangelicals, Trump is a Christ-like figure, maybe even a better Christ than Jesus. This should tell us something about the evangelicals' concept of Christ.
24
@Cary mom
Which leads to the question: are they blissfully unaware of the way they are actingf, or consciously hypocritical?
10
This is the problem right here:
“When a falling star, a literal star falls out the sky, everyone looks at it, notices it, ... Yet there are millions and millions of galaxies of stars that stay in their place and keep shining.”
Pastors are regular human beings, Not stars. Not gods. Not superhuman. Along with the power, fame, and admiration that comes from leading megachurches, often comes entitlement and hubris. Power corrupts.
57
Stars don’t fall out of the sky. Literally!
12
Willow Creek is a 15 minute drive from my house in an extremely rich, extremely white suburb. It's a sprawling complex that serves 15K people for services every Sunday, with its own theatre, restaurants, and amenities.
Were Jesus to come back to earth, it is the last place he would be found. Unless he first (a) punched Bill Hybels in the face while (b) helping a homeless person to get a good meal and some medical care.
Aren't these the same hypocrites that Jesus called out as whited sepulchres? The demise of organized Evangelical Christianity cannot come soon enough.
184
No human being is a “star.”
27
Nothing says 'conservative Christianity' more than amorality, immorality and hypocrisy.
Those poor whited sepulchers.
Jesus did of course warn us about these bottom of the barrel faux-Christians.
Matthew 23:28
"...you appear to be righteous on the outside, but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness."
157
In more conservative and misogynist church circles this will be interpreted as 'weak pastor' rather than 'weak system'. In the most conservative, as 'weak women'.
Little will change.
52
instead of faulting evangelicals for not living up to their moral principles, perhaps we should ask whether these principles are worth living up to. Fundamentalism, science denialism, the repulsive theology of predestination, misogyny - how are these good? If every evangelical pastor was as pure as driven snow, it would not diminish my hostility to the evangelicals as a movement. Indeed, it is arguable that it’s better to have secret sinners than fanatical saints. Various “reigns of saints” in human history caused more bloodshed than all the lechers, drunkards and adulterers together. Still, this may be a positive development in that it will force some believers to question the nature of their belief system, not just the fitness of a particular pastor.
93
One rule of thumb I have is never to follow a "spiritual leader" who lives in a mansion and drives an expensive car. Such an existence is antithetical to the teachings of virtually every holy man who ever lived.
204
@C. Holmes
As a young insurance agent I had an account; a church in an extremely poor district that had a pastor who drove a Mercedes SEL and had a Buick Electra station wagon and lived in a brick mansion on a beautiful park. The members were mostly barely making ends meet and were very sincere in their approaches to me. It is hard not to pass judgement but it just never felt right to me.
24
@C. Holmes Right on! This applies to any religion, Christian or not. Back when I was growing up in Washington state, there was a popular Buddhist monk whom my parents once saw filling his Rolls Royce at the local gas station. My mother said, surely, that man is a hypocrite. Parents grew up in a Buddhist-influenced country so familiar with the teachings.
Not too many years later, he was convicted of tax fraud and news broke that he had abused/ slept with many women in his temple.
So people should be aware of frauds from any background. Sometimes, I find myself wondering if non-Asian Americans are especially deceived because they are entranced with a religion which they see as somewhat "exotic."
6
To paraphrase George Bernard Shaw: Christianity might be a good thing if anyone ever practiced it.
152
Never was a cute sound byte more falsely spoken. He also said teachers become teachers because they are incapable of getting a real job.
Im struck by how powerful sex and desire are in religious communities. Maybe it is the lust for power - not sex. But in both the Catholic and evangelical communities, religious leaders seem to believe they can do whatever they wish without considering how harmful their actions are on the people they guide. For me, the metoo movement is different because the perpetrators did not hold themselves out as moral leaders. Until religious groups can honestly address the lust and longing of it leaders, they will continue to damage their followers.
35
@Ellen, "Maybe it is the lust for power - not sex. "
It's simple. It's the lust for power, and the sex and the money follow the power.
If one remembers that religion is all about control, then it makes perfect sense.
16
@Ellen,
I agree with everything you said. I would also add, don't most Christian faiths require celibacy? Well, this antiquated policy certainly goes against human nature. Human beings have reproductive organs for a reason. Sex done for love is NOT a sin. Otherwise, one might ask, why did God give us a way to reproduce?
My word, ain't it amazing how many of these bloviating and bullying preacher types turn out to be lecherous, power hungry, and money grubbing pigs?
I heartily agree with Peter: but would change "not all".
61
There is no question about it, that many of us view Evangelicals as the worst hypocrites as those of the leaders whose sexual exploits and sins have been exposed and or continuing to be exposed, blame the women who are the victims, and others for the failures, rather then themselves. And the many enablers who protect them because they think its in the best interest of the institution. The very same Evangelicals who were so critical of Bill Clinton, have given a pass to Trump and his sexual exploits.
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Believe it or not, there are Christians who agree with you. As a Christian, this political season has left us with bad and worse choices. My liberal friends feel the same way, in opposite directions. My liberal friends overlook the chummy relations Clinton’s has with Russia, China, sexual exploitation, and the ragged list of tragedies, including Vince Foster. But Christian leaders refuse to criticize Trump’s flagrant womanizing, brain dead ignorance, immorality and cruelty. Not all Christians are on the bandwagon and those that are frankly do not represent orthodox faith. They betray their own lack of faith in God’s power and judgement by endorsing frankly evil leaders in order to keep the status quo. Many of us believe the nation may be following Rome’s decline and we have left the period of respectful discourse much like the period of the Gracchi’s. I think there is little hope for us with the polarized self-centered leaders in office today. From both tribes, thank-you. Weeping is in order.
Until these evangelical “Christians” renounce their support of the adulterous, sexual harassing, racist President, they are all hypocrites. Jesus must be weeping over their transgressions.
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Jesus died and was buried about 2,000 years ago. Jesus has not existed since that time.
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How is it that this is so surprising? I am over 75 yrs old by quite a few years and have a childhood memory (from sometime in the late 30's) of my parents talking in whispers about the head deacon in a neighboring fundamentalist church being disciplined (I don't know what was done) for incest. I didn't know what the word meant and didn't dare ask my parents. I think I eventually looked it up in a dictionary. This kind of behavior is not new but just has not been discussed openly. Covered up and let a pastor move quietly away or the deacon handed a suggestion that he move to a different church. Meanwhile. many churches also split when these events became too public, because there were always members who remember how 'Spiritual' the pastor or leader was, and would never support any kind of discipline.
Thank God for the Me Too movement.
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It seems to me that the evangelical churches just need to look at the Catholic Church to figure out what NOT to do and yet it seems they are following the same story line, I.e., the accusers are not telling the truth, protect the Church by not publicizing it, etc., until it gets so bad that it damages the Church as a whole. When will any of these folks learn?
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@Pragmatic
They milk the money as long as they can. Their “Star” brings in the dough.
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These self-proclaimed "Christians" are no more "moral" than anyone else and often considerably less so with their rigid intolerance and highly judgmental demeanor. Both of the latter attributes are clearly proscribed in Christian scripture.
It seems the height of injustice that the American media continues to ascribe the name "Christian" to right-wing evangelicals to the exclusion of those of others who actually practice and live the faith. Evangelical leaders of Hybels's ilk are, at most, opportunists, entrepreneurs and social-cultural authoritarians and should be clearly identified as such.
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Hmm. The lesson I'm taking is that not all, but a lot, of evangelicals are, in fact, hypocrites.
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@Peter Riley: I thought they were but became certain after so many of them voted for Trump.
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@Peter Riley Yes, of course, but that is not the distinguishing property of evangelicals...
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@Peter Riley
I must concur with your conclusion, I mean look at that "church." Its a symbol of the so-called prosperity gospel's seductive spell to sell mammon to the faithful.
WWJT? - What would Jesus think?
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