As a primary (child) care parent, can we say "At Home Dad" of five (both sons and daughters) and someone paying attention to household work and parental role sharing I have two comments:
1) In general, across any and all socio-economic, ethnic etc. lines women and girls at K-12 and even college age are better observers/listeners/writers and note takers. Thus that 11 minutes a day girls in a study doing household chores might be to a n noticeable degree product of that.
2) While men/husbands/fathers still not doing the equal share of household chores (besides discounting for I bet you not so precise record keepers as mentioned under 1) ... what they do while their wives/female partners toil on domestic chores? I don't see them in fitness center, coffee shop, taking shopping therapy or acrylic painting class? Are they on sofa with TV remote while their wives run around those household chores (on top of it as their "second shift")? I don't think so. They are either on their second job or (increasingly unpaid) overtime, just to hold on family's primary source of income.
3
What about no sisters?
I wish the commenters would spend less time worrying about the house and more time on English grammar lessons.
13
I never got an allowance so can't relate. I grew up with three brothers and my mom and dad, and the rule in our home was always that everyone that hasn't birthed children does the cleaning (and cooking!). My mom was the family breadwinner and often was working past dinner as my dad cooked the food and checked our homework. My house flipped gender roles long before it was a buzzword!
All jokes aside, as a black queer man, I have always been troubled by wage gap arguments. Certainly, women are having a breakthrough moment in our time, and this is deeply valuable! But I find that conversations about elevating women's place in society has an increasingly white and wealthy lens.
Sure, 'Girls who Code' is important, but how about poor, minority girls (and boys!) that never had their own computer? How about black men who can't get an interview off of their 'ethnic sounding name'. How about black and hispanic women, who don't feel included in the many women's groups that Corporate America has established?
I am all for equality, but it's important to remember that a rising tide does not raise all boats. I challenge the many theorists of our time with access and visibility to look at the blind spots in this wage gap conversation. Thank you for your thoughts.
22
Interesting. I don’t remember my sister doing much around the house, but I do remember mowing the lawn, weeding, painting the house, cleaning the gutters, etc., etc., chores for which my sister was excused, due I suppose to her gender.
When women figure out that male privilege has always come at a cost, and female privilege is real, we might get somewhere.
13
@David
As a At Home Dad of five I can attest to that - despite all enlighten egalitarian treatment of our genetic copies of both genders we as parents tried to invent and with our kids adhered to - our daughters willingly spent more time on washing their piles of laundry while it was almost impossible, in essence never happened, to have them participate in chores you are mentioning, i.e. (large) yard care (mowing, fertilizing, weed control, tons of branches etc. from the ground removal, painting, long driveway show removal, gutter cleaning, etc. etc. plus garbage from kitchen and from waste basket removal - a smelly privilege (judging not only from men to women ratio at our town recycle station of 3:1).
Our daughters played well "need to do school work" every time when outdoor chores were to be taken on. At home, our sons certainly had their equitable share of dish washing, kitchen and living room etc. vacuuming and floor cleaning.
4
This article interests me due to me being able to relate to this topic. The title grabbed my attention before I even started reading the article because of the pure statement of, “Daughters Do More Chores”. The title shows that it isn’t just a mere opinion, it is a fact that is supported by evidence that Daughters are saddled with more chores at home. Referring back to my previous statement, not only can I relate to this matter, but I know many other young women who can impart this topic as well. Females always had the assumption that they belong doing house chores; the stereotypical housewife. I know that in present and more modern times that the stereotype of girls has died down, but It still affects young girls. Daughters are born into the ridiculous stereotype and almost have the job of needing to prove themselves differently. It has been proven that girls who do chores spend more time on that task compared males. Not only that but the adolescent girls also are paid less in allowance wheres to boys are paid more. In a personal experience, a friend of mine is the only female in her household, her having two brothers and her being the middle child. Sadly she is placed in position of cleaning the house and even cleaning up after her brothers! She cares for both her younger and older brother, which consists of her cleaning, cooking, and outgoing other household tasks. I enjoyed this topic because of the relativity to my own life and other people I know.
6
You know who is the biggest victim here? The women these boys will marry. The boys are being very effectively trained to believe that any contribution to family chores is an extraordinary, special, above-and-beyond achievement that deserves praise and extra compensation. These low expectations for boys become low contributions from men. Pay it forward and raise the spouse you wish you had.
54
Coming from Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Iowa, boys did most of the lawn mowing, snow shoveling, cleaning windows from ladders, car washing. Outdoor work, dangerous work.
It could be that while girls get a bad deal with assigned chores, it's boys who are called on to fix 'emergencies', maintenance trouble shooting... engine won't start, plumbing leaks, lights don't work, etc. Perhaps parents see boys as deserving more compensation because of those expectations.
7
A 'Generationally Perpetuated' Pattern: Daughters Do More Chores
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/08/upshot/chores-girls-research-social-s...
As a 17 year old girl, I do agree that girls do more chores inside the house then men do. For me I spend at least 3 hours in doing chores, but for me chores are cleaning the whole house. My parents don't pay me allowance because they believe that you shouldn't be paid for helping around the house because children are not supposed to be just lying around the house and making their parents do everything for them.
20
"Chores are really practice for adult living . . "
As a British / International teacher of Physics, I have often wondered if the mature and responsible attitude that girls have (generally) to study is due in some way to the higher expectations that parents (mothers?) have of girls over boys.
7
@iain mackenzie
So, according to you, International teacher of Physics to boot, women are so oppressed by patriarchal society that it is mothers (not fathers) whose expectations for children are decisive factor in shaping children's life-long success, thus daughters focusing more on and excelling in studying.
That patriarchal oppression in the end (its output) doesn't look that bad.
My own experience is that girls desire to be seen as responsible in a way boys do not. Boys are not discouraged from being lazy, wasting time or energy -nor rewarded, either. A boy who sweeps the floor and takes out the garbage, however, is far more likely to raise parental concern-moms, especially fearful of gender confusion-desirous of having normal sons and daughters- might be encouraged to forbid male children from more then token help in caring for the house.
Having cared for many small children, no one questions my masculinity over it, because I am both old and out of the reproductive competition.
Once a boy reaches the point where he can squeeze his girlfriend and walk her home-and still have her call him-that's when parents will insist he do lots of chores and take out the garbage and clean bathrooms. . .
@meloop
Notice how in the first two sentences you describe girls’ behavior as being due to something inherent in the girls themselves in contrast to the way you attribute boys’ behavior to expectations others have of them.
Might be worth examining that assumption.
Is it possible that the behavior of both is being driven by expectations others have for them? (Hint: it is)
12
I was, for the most part, an only child. My brothers are 13 and 15 years older and gone by the time I went to school. I maintained a 3 bedroom house and over an acre parcel. I mowed the lawn, fed the grass to the sheep. I fed the chickens. I watered and weeded. Moms rules were no chainsaw and no poison. Other than that, the yard was mine. Plus, I washed and vacuumed the cars. I climbed up on the roof and cleaned the gutters and other assorted outside chores. That's on top of I dusting and vacuuming. I made beds. I did dishes and cleaned the kitchen. I cleaned the bathrooms. Mom's essential chores were laundry, cooking, and moping simply because she preferred to do these things. I did everything else.
As an employee, I was a grocery bagger, Courtesy Clerk. I had to use the cardboard bailer, and take the full pallet of compressed cardboard out with a hand truck, just like the guys. I pushed as many carts as the next guy. I was promoted after 7 months. I was promoted over 5 people in a union store, some with as much as 5 years seniority. Because I was that good. But that caused some problems.
As a QC Inspector, I would regularly have to move pallets of metal castings with a hand truck. I'm 5'4' and 105 lbs. I did it just like the rest of the guys.
As an Industrial Abrasives distributor, I did shipping and receiving. I also had to move heavy barrels of compounds, each weighing 200-300 lbs off of pallets using nothing but my own weight/strength.
14
@Paula Adams why aren't women attacking you for your personal anecdote - they are attacking men for personal anecdotes
2
"A 'Generationally Perpetuauted' Pattern: Daughters Do More Chores"
The topic on how daughters do more chores got my attention because it's said that females do most of the household work. It has also been said that girls and boys don't get equal pay for doing the same jobs. Based on this article, it states that on an app called "Busykid", boys earn more money than girls. Sandra Hofferth, a sociologist, states that having household skills at a young age is an advantage for when you are older. My mother agrees that girls should learn at a young age to complete menial household tasks while also being career savvy to prepare them for adulthood. It can't hurt to be a good housekeeper as well as a good career woman. In many societies, it is expected that a woman should be more inclined to want to keep house. In American society, woman have the freedom to decide to be either or both. That's what is so great about America. Anything is possible.
@Asmita Jaiswal
Yeah? When I tried to interfere with a mother in fixing buttons or showing children how to properly wash "good dishes" by hand, I was pushed out of the way. It is my experience that many moms, now at least-not in 1960- fear men who can sew, cook and clean better then they and whose children know it.
It is for this and no other reason that women hire "maids" to clean houses-because they have little ability or desire to do so themselves. Women were once proud of such skills. My mom worked for Bella Abzug and WSFP and other anti nuclear testing groups as well as Democratic party politics, while often doing her own housework, rebuilding and finishing furniture and caulking her old, 5th hand sailboat. I learned from the "best"! And since then, I have met few girls who could do one tenth of what my mom knew, and only a few who could do half what I can. It depends on the guys you know, I guess. . .
2
There were three girls in our family so chores were shared evenly. However, family gatherings were a different matter. The women and girls cleaned the house, prepared the food and cleaned up the meal afterward while the men and boys sat in the living room and watched sports. Being treated differently because I was female drove me crazy and I was determined that when I grew up, I would not put up with this and I don't.
47
Now it is families that are complicit in gender bias? With data. This is news? You Americans are seemingly amazed by common aspects of oyr societies. How about an article on royalty's penchant passing power on through males? Shocking.
1
My husband and I did not practice this with our children.
Chores are chores! We all need experience with house cleaning, cooking, and yard work. These skills are needed as an adult and as part of all adult life. This is what independence looks like.
My step son learned how to clean the bathroom, while my step daughter was sent outside, and visa versa. They learned how to do it all.
When my step son joined the Navy he was assigned laundry detail. He received extra credit for it. The reason he was chosen was because he was the only one in his group who had ever even done laundry. He had learned to do his own when he started attending high school.
Shame on you America! For not allowing your children full independence and freedom from idiotic "gender" roles.
29
In my family of 4 children, three boys and one girl, there were chores, period. We were allowed to choose which chores we would do over the course of the week -- dust, vacuum, take out the garbage, do evening dishes - clear, wash or dry (no dishwasher till all the kids moved out). As we got older, my brothers chose lawn and garden while I helped my Dad with laundry. Mom planned and cooked all the meals (until she went to work when I was a teen) and Dad did all the grocery shopping. Thanks to my dad, oldest of five with a sickly mom, he had no problem doing "women's work," because he had started doing it to help his own beloved Mom, who he preferred to spend time with over his dad. My Mom knew she had a catch and supported his equity. I am grateful for my parents' non-gender traditions.
18
@StandStrong, leaving chore choice to the kids let the boys pick the clean, infrequent, and non-time-specific jobs that men are typically willing to do -- lawn, garden, cars, etc. You ended up doing the personal care -- frequent, dirty, cleaning up after others -- the women's work. Maybe your Dad had to do women's work, but you and your siblings weren't taught to cross over. Who scrubbed the toilets in your parents' house? Who does it in yours?
8
In my family my brother and I both did chores and received allowances but they were not tied together.
What I noticed was that my brother's chores were mostly not time-critical (i.e. the lawn can be mowed today or tomorrow), they were sporadic (i.e. once a week) and they were tied to the service of the house. My chores were more personal-service oriented (i.e. laundry, bathroom cleaning, cleaning in general), and needed to be done more often.
I believe that the subtle and unintentional lesson was, for that women were expected to clean up after men, and for my brother, that cleaning up was someone else's job.
43
@Kelpie13 -- Yes, exactly. But the lesson wasn't unintentional.
6
@Kelpie13 some people do laundry and clean the bathroom once per week just like mowing the lawn
mowing the lawn takes an hour less or more depending on the lawn - clean bathroom 20 minutes
3
Raising a family? nobody wants to do chores?
Remind the family that they are a family, and as all are busy including Mom, everybody needs to do something to help for the good of the family.
Have a meeting. ask them how they see the chores that need to be done... describe what needs to be done, and when, and then discuss who among the family, after training, would be able, to take on which job; if things go wrong, save the arguments for the next meeting.
Everyone has to be on board with the idea that mother can not do it all, or she would collapse. The co-operation is wonderful and very much worth a few weeks of getting over the male privilege assumptions. Yep!
When you've 'forgotten' to do the family laundry or it's still wet in the washer next morning, nothing is as enlightening as seeing your mother come into your room in the morning to get a pair of your clean underpants out of YOUR dresser, because she doesn't have any left in her own.
"sorry honey, but I don't have any clean underwear - it's all in the wash... I'm going to have to wear a pair of yours.."
This is the Adlerian method I use with my family; (works well up to the point when male partners won't join in.)
5
@Elizabeth Barry -- when the male "partners" won't join it: isn't that the point when it counts? This way, you're just training your daughter to be some other man's doormat.
13
This is borne out in my experience. My brother's only job was to take the trash out weekly, while I began doing the majority of the household upkeep in 3rd grade... nightly dinner dishes (handwash), sanitize the bathrooms weekly (Tuesdays), mop the linoleum floor weekly (Weds), mow the lawn weekly (Sat) and fold/put away the household laundry as needed.
Now, my brother and I are nearly 40 and we are roommates out of economic necessity. The pattern continues. I have to tell him to wipe up his own crumbs. He has never vacuumed in the 6 years we've lived together and has run the dishwasher fewer than 10 times.
I feel trapped by the costs of rent.
24
@Ella Washington Sing it sister! :-)
1
@Ella Washington -- get a new roommate. A woman.
16
@Ella Washington Most assuredly, you can find a better housemate? One that doesn't abuse?
11
Growing up I had a brother five years younger but no sisters.
FIRST BORN children DO MORE CHORES.
I did the dishes every week-day evening from 1st grade to 7th grade. (Then we moved to an apartment with a dish washer).
When we moved to a house In Jr & Sr High school I mowed the lawn.
Can you site any studies on Chores and Birth Order??
Thanks.
13
@Glenn
I'd like to see how it shakes out statistically when girls are the firstborn... I'd bet, based on my own experience, that the firstborn girl ends up doing even more chores than the lady of the house.
7
@Glenn I may be female but I agree with this one. I'm the eldest of four. I'm five years older than my brother, then 7 older than the next boy, and 9 older than my sister. I'm really the only one who had to deal with the daily struggle of whether or not we did chores. Oh sure, everyone else was got after for not picking up after themselves. But dishes, laundry, sweeping, mopping, cleaning the bathroom, dusting? All me. My brothers did occasionally mow the lawn and take out the trash. But it was never a struggle like it was with me. I get it, I was older and could do more, but it was like they forgot how young they started with me. With that said, I was the only one who really ever earned an allowance. By the time, my sister was born, it was really just about whether or not they had the money for what my sibling wanted. I think they just got tired by the time she was born and just did things themselves and if one of us helped, then great. As I got older, our upstairs bathroom didn't get cleaned unless I did it. And it was easier to keep track of my clothes when I did my own laundry. Kids will learn if you just stop doing things for them and if you don't try to force them to live on your timeline. There was nothing I hated more than doing dishes while standing on a chair because I wasn't tall enough to reach the counter and my siblings never had to do that.
2
@Ashley This is a form of child abuse called "adultification, or parentification" depending.
I suggest people take a moment and look it up. Education is important in understanding what is healthy and what is not. What happened to you is not.
If you have to stand on a chair in order to do the dishes, you are still a small child who is missing their childhood. The task is beyond your years.
2
Not my daughter. She does as little as possible for as long as possible.
4
@Enough
That is learned, just say no. So many Kids are so incredibly spoiled America. People should know how to do certain things by the time they go to college.
I teach sculpture and I can tell whose parents raised them to clean up after themselves and know how to sweep a floor.
5
And people wonder why fewer women want to get married…
49
My mom ruled the family, yet I was required to do Saturday housework, as well as nightly dishes, while my brother did no chores. My dad mowed the lawn. I remember feeling envious when I learned that the family of my friend had a chore chart on which everyone was listed with rotating chores. The chore hierarchy as well as other forms of the hierarchy in my family led my brother to assume leadership roles and me to assume subservient roles in later life. I've since changed. Children learn from what you do more than from what you say. I would never recommend this chore distribution to any family.
41
Very skewed if data is collected only from kids receiving allowances. That would presuppose a family with higher income and the belief that kids should control their own money.
1
@Allison
So, Allison, when the money is 'their own' they own it, no? It is with this money that the early mistakes should be made and the consequences shouldered....
After the disaster, and the crying, if you like you could show your child your own savings account complete with interest payments and totals, and then show that AMAZING chart showing the growth over 5, 10, 15 years all the way to age 65 or 70 of, let's say $100. or more. It will ASTONISH the kid and truly I am still gobsmacked. Tell him/her it is called 'compound interest' - but people don't usually do this before they spend a wee bit too much on, let's just say - the wrong things.
Elizabeth Barry
4
I have 3 brothers and 4 sisters. The chores were equally distributed and our allowances were the same. The only difference I remember between the boys and girls is that the boys drank whole milk and the girls drank 2% milk..
4
There's a lot more going on in work assignments than just gender, there's class probably more important. My mother grew up in a family with a housekeeper, a cook, a gardner. She married down and so the children filled the labor gap. She never helped, truthfully i don't think she saw it as a possibility from the very start. Her attitude was picked up by my siblings - work was for lesser people. First my brother, then my sister imposed their own chores upon me. As long as they all got done, mom didn't care who did them. Mine is a Cinderella story. I eventually went to the ball at the castle — but I wouldn't wish a mother who grew up with servants on any child. The gist of it is that class culture cultivates patterns of behavior, wether the family goes up or down the social order. It isn't gender that determines who does the work, it's the ability to dominate and successfully exploit labor, wether you're related to them or not.
19
@Arthur Yes, this is most definitely child abuse.
Your mother is a selfish person that made her own children sacrifice their childhood for her own personal care. Not nice!
3
I don't want to mow the grass and I never have. This actually separates me from women that I know in Arkansas , Oklahoma and Texas . Many mow lawns either with a riding or gasoline powered mower. But I grew up thinking of it as a man's job and these days I pay someone.I do like to weed, garden and trim shrubbery though. Children , mostly boys, did get paid for mowing lawns when I was young. Girls babysat and boys did not. I am certain that this dates me. When I raised my own children they did laundry and dishes and were expected to clean their rooms. Also to clean out the car, pick up outside after the dog . I had 2 girls and one boy. Equal allowances.Tooth fairy was equal pay and equal pay for A's on report cards.They all learned to cook. It would never have occurred to me to pay anyone to brush his or her teeth !
My father had 5 girls and a boy. He had many of the sex role assumptions of a 1950's dad but we were all welcome on weekends to hang out and ask questions and poke around while he repaired washing machines and televisions and cars and did carpentry. M-F weekdays he was a scientist. He recruited me to paint rooms much to the jealousy of all the siblings. I find it hard to believe that there are measurable sex role divergences in childhood chores as families are so variable.
7
When I was a kid growing up in the '60's, I was told that the more work I did in the house and the more responsibilities that I took on, the higher would be my allowance. Then my mother went back to work when I was 13 and I became responsible for all of the household chores including making dinner. My allowance did not go up with the increase in chores and responsibilities. Instead, I was informed that these chores were my responsibility as a part of the family.
1
I, a father, show my children that men can and should do the “back-office” of inside work. A man who everyday washes the dishes, does the laundry, cleans the toilet, does the shopping for detergent/diapers/other household goods, sorts and puts out the trash, and other tasks without a client (=child, pet, spouse) is doing the work that is most underappreciated. It is also the easiest way to contribute for someone with a busy work schedule because you can wash dishes even late at night after you get home.
What husband would not a better rested and happier wife? Doing the back-office of housework is a concrete step to realize this outcome.
31
A half an hour? Forty five minutes? Really? Is this 1% type token housework? If I only spent a half an hour shoveling out our 200 foot long driveway all Winter long, we'd never get anywhere. This doesn't include the even worse task of clearing up wet leaves on the ground after they fell from the trees. Since there's no middle class anymore, it leaves me to wonder. And no matter how many 'studies' and 'surveys' they take, women still prefer to date and mate with men who earn more than they do, maybe that has something to do with a subconscious decision to give girls less for an allowance. I thought this wage gap had been disproved at least a few years ago attributable to decisions women make to take more unpaid time off and/or work shorter hours. If women were truly paid less than their male counterparts, why wouldn't company's hire only women? Maybe that way they wouldn't have to move their operations to Mexico.
1
@A. Xak So you no longer live in Los Angeles? Rain is scarce and snow is even scarcer in that city.
9
@A. Xak
No the wage gap was real. You might think about replacing "disproved" with reduced, lessened, or obliterated depending on who's data you are looking at and how you think about it.
6
@Peter I worked for a Fortune 500 insurance company for 7 years - in the 4 story office building he majority of workers were female and the top position was filled by 3 different females they always had classes for women in business, a few for minorities in business, less for everyone, and of course none for men in business
Having to be paid for hygiene's pretty lame. I'm glad I was never one of those people.
17
The current disparity is wrong but you need to consider historical roots. In a basically agricultural economy, farming duties were typically assigned to male children. Persisting beyond the shift from agriculture to industrialism, men were expected to fight the country's wars. Men were drafted. Women were not. Women could plan for the limited choices available to them. Men often had their plans made for them (mortal risk included) by Uncle Sam. Only recently has there been more shouldering of war-fighting by women; and this in a volunteer military. These are explanations, not excuses. But they are important to the complete understanding of gender roles in our society.
3
Boys don't do chores becuase they were expected to someday fight in a war? I'm not sure your comment makes any sense. And in my agricultural family, women did just as many farm chores as men, including all outside chores. And anyways, men I know who have been in the armed services are better at 'inside' chores, since they had to do more of them in the military. My brother who was in the military is much better at ironing than I am!
41
@Kj No, soory if I did not properly explain. Boys' parents had been socialized to a certain set of "male" expectations. Typically, these involved more risk structurally. Men who have been in the military often are good at inside chores...but only after they have been in the military. Nice to hear that your agricultural family was equal opportunity...but I'm guessing that was not in the 19th Century when a lot of attitudes, which are only now slowly dissipating, were formed.
@Frank Actually it was. Poor folks never had the luxury of gender roles like the middle class did. And while men bore the risk of fighting in wars, I will remind you that women have always bore the risk of pregnancy and childbirth, which has historically killed a lot of women. I suspect, up until modern mass warfare, pregnancy killed more women than war killed men. In olden days, armies were small, but nearly every woman had a couple of kids, putting her at risk for all kinds of complications, up to and including death. Today, women stand a better chance of dying from pregnancy related complications than men do of dying in war. So I'm not sure if men face more structural dangers, unless we discount the dangers of pregnancy.
5
Teamwork and occasionally swapping the chores seem to be a relationship preserver. But growing up, my sister--older than me by one year, delighted in household chores. My younger brother never lifted a finger. Our mother knew how much I liked to study, so I caught a break. As an adult, I let my spouse slide all the time. But I do enjoy tending to my home. If I say I'd like a chore to be done, it gets done. This mix works, and the marriage is a happy one.
4
We had a housekeeper.
None of us liked chores .
My kids watched both parents hire people to help us.
As adults they are doing the same.
No studies for ..... college educated families approaching “ chores”
Yea i get it. Women are always getting less of all good stuff and more bad stuff. The saga continues and is worse than ever.
Did the trumps ever do chores or obama. ?
This study is stating the obvious.
1
@Nurse Jacki Actually, there are a whole series of articles about the Obama girls doing chores in the White House. Including one by the NYT...
23
When my neighbor’s daughter cat sits we pay her an Ok wage. One day I asked her younger brother to help me do a chore. A boring one but he agreed. He gave up about 1/3 of the way and To my horror, I over-paid him. It was an automatic reaction. Even though his sister had responsibilities for actual living things. I really shocked myself when I did that.
15
@Lorraine Davis The real question, what will you do next time?
10
The first born son carries more responsibility than all his siblings combined. Chores are easy, simple, no brainers.
4
@Bruce Savin Really? What extra responsibilities come with being a first born male? Do they magically appear or must they be summoned by culture?
1
@Kj Hello, first born son of 6 siblings, the rest are girls. I had a great responsibility growing up. I was the first child in my family helping with chores. When I got older I baby sat, fed, changed diapers, and whatever else my mother needed.
Now, as an adult, I am the one my sisters come to for ANYTHING. It didn't magically appear or summoned by culture; that statement is shortsighted & dismissive of older brothers who care about their siblings. The responsibilities are common sense if you are a decent human being.
@Jo It is common for the oldest son and daughter to have the most responsibility in large families, but for many families, the chores breakdown is different for boys compared to girls. That is why there is a higher percentage of eldest sisters of large families who later choose to be child free.
When I was young only the girls had chores. The only boy had no chores but was expected to take the trash out which lead to garbage climbing up the wall because he neglected his one duty. None of us got an allowance -- we where told it was our responsibility. My father worked and refused to allow my mother to work outside the home. Because we lived on a farm and I loved it I also had farm chores, but it did not get me out of my house chores. I did both. This inequity led to a very spoiled narcissist boy -- he is lazy and a tyrant to this day to his second wife who is, of course, responsible for all the housework even though she is the breadwinner in the household. He, like my father, has no skills for homebuilding chores. He has to hire out for repairs of any kind. My father left things in disrepair because he was also cheap and didn't have a second income in the household since he refused my mother employment. I think these things depend on the mental health of the parents raising children and the effects are long-lasting. My brother and sisters follow the same tradition as my parents did. I am the only one that didn't out of four.
42
Is this actually a surprise to anyone?
19
Back in 1995 (23 years ago) my then 10 year old daughter did an allowance survey of children in her grade at school. She found that girls got paid less for doing more chores. Surprised?
It touched such a nerve that she was featured in the Chicago Tribune, the Wall Street Journal, an editorial in the Washington Post, lots of magazines, radio and TV interviews.
Did things change? I guess the results of this survey show that they did not.
99
I only have one child, a boy. I had him helping around the house from an early age. Now eight, he vacuums the floors, separates the laundry, loads it and turns the washer on. He helps fold clothes. He clears his dishes and loads the dishwasher. He likes unloading the utensils and he helps me cook.
He cleans the 1/2 bath every Saturday or he doesn’t get any computer over the weekend.
I refuse to raise a man who can’t/won’t take care of himself or help out. There are 2 of us living in the house. We share the workload.
92
@Nate’s mom
You sound just like my mother, who adopted the same practice with me and my brother. And my father, too: He had me and my brother help him with the 'traditional' male things like carpentry, plumbing, etc. We were very fortunate to have had such good parents.
15
@Nate’s mom More women like you, raising boys to be men like that: society will get better.
15
@Nate’s mom Well done, what a super mom!
7
There is a lot of creative, thoughtful and interesting discussion here. I've begun to wonder if we are all just blowing smoke because of the article it is based on. The writing we are discussing seems to be based on outdated data. That makes me upset with the writer. It seems pretty lazy to stay stuck in the past and not update yourself. I also fault the publisher (editors), as well as the author for wasting our time.
Can anyone explain to to me the only graph in the reference that appears to be the basis for the whole thing (PAA affairs, p. 8)? The axes and bar graph labels are given in percentages and there is no explanatory figure legend, yet this article has time units. Yes, the graph title has "minutes". I don't get it at all. Maybe I am stupid, but it seems like the wrong graph in the box under that title.
The area of study, work sex roles and pay equity is, fortunately, looking at a quickly changing societal characteristics. Given that, some of the cited studies are quite stale. I am seeing points being made about today based on studies that "go back 50 years", to 1996, to 2004, to 2006 and 2014. To be fair, others were published a year or two ago, but if we take the time to look a the data collection to publication lag, they might not even look very good. I don't mind an historical perspective, but for this issue, today is very important.
4
@Peter
EO Wilson deserves a Nobel Prize for his work; the Pulitzer is not enough. Another American who deserves a Nobel is Noam Chomsky. Neither will likely win a Nobel because they don't fit neatly into the overly-specialized niches of the academic world.
1
I have long since thought about this before and by no means can I say this article is absolutely true. I remember growing up and doing chores around the house without earning ANY allowance. My step sister never did any chores aside from occasionally tidying up the bathroom she used.
Also, equality, that's not what you want. What you want is equity, which means 'fairness in ALL situations', not just for women. A lot of the time, I hear about how women are treated as inferior, but nobody ever seems to mention the fact there are jobs that men are not allowed to do that women are, such as a cosmetic specialist. If you want equity, than yes, women should be payed more, however do not come crying about the 30yr old guy behind a cosmetics counter recommending you women care products.
An Ad I saw while watching youtube genuinely handled this top of inequality very thoroughly. At first, I almost clicked to skip it, but then I heard it was about inequality. My first instinctive thought was, 'Oh this'll be good'. Well, I was right, it WAS good. The speaker was a woman who handling the subject very maturely. She spoke that issue isn't that we need to take from men and give to women, but find a way to better the women. You can't pull a Robin Hood and take from people, that's like saying we raise the taxes for rich individuals and give that taxed money to the poor, you just can't do it.
2
@(Anonymous) It is common that when men participate in "womens" jobs, they are more likely to rise through the ranks and earn higher pay. There are plenty of highly ranked men who are MUA. Women: teachers, Men: principals. Women: cooks, Men: chefs, etc.
20
We did not have allowances as kids. Am I now an adult slave?
As a man who struggled with anorexia, I'm no stranger to gender issues. People used to tell me "boy's can't be anorexic", not just kids but authority figures of both genders.
Can you guess who still has to lift heavy things at the flower shop? I'll give you a hint, not the woman with 2 feet on me and 150lbs... I might add that she is payed more because of seniority, even though that is not applicable to your non-merit based gender biased system .
In summation are you sure the sample size is large enough to cover all social, economic and geographical extrapolations?
3
the irony of how many men have chosen to comment with essentially some reductionist whining "not all men" story shows precisely why this article needs to exist.
62
@kate
I don't believe that I understand your use of "reductionist". My work often involves a reductionist approach, dividing a thing or process into its constituent parts in order to understand it. Sometimes I whine about it, but mostly I enjoy it.
@kate
Peter is right. ALL thinking involves reductionism or, to use another term, abstraction. To use the words of William James, the world would otherwise be one "blooming, buzzing confusion." Our very sensory organs operate on a version of reductionism.
Any article that implies that it is a common practice for boys to be paid to brush their teeth is automatically suspect. In my 68 years I have never heard of such a thing. It undoubtedly happens--so very rarely that it hardly seems worth a serious mention.
4
@kate I'm sorry, but did you just say that "not all men" stories- meaning nuanced experiences- are reductive?
Are you implying that an "all men" story, without any nuances, outliers, or individual experiences, is not reductive?
Do you see the flaw in your reasoning? Lol, maybe this comment is troll bait. If it's not, with all do respect, please think about what you just put on the internet
I don’t understand what the problem is ?? Our Country is based on Inequality! ~ JK or Not
Paying boys to clean themselves up is a new one. Is there a fear that boys are naturally slobs unless they are rewarded early for learning how to brush their teeth and take a shower!?!
9
@Marian
Portrayal of men and boys as natural slobs that need women to take care of them in that respect is rampant. Sure, there are exceptions like Felix Unger, but they are often abnormal neurotic clean freaks. I wish that my wife was as clean and tidy as my father. Wait, that would not be good. Maybe as clean and tidy as my mother would be better.
1
@Peter
It is a negative view of boys and men that does a disservice to males and females.
It's a good idea for all children to do chores. Every child should learn how to cook, clean, plan a meal, do gardening, do the laundry, balance a checkbook or its equivalent, etc. In short, it's important to learn how to take care of oneself because, when one leaves the parental home for college or for adult life, one may not be able to afford to pay for help with those chores. Then they aren't chores, they are what we do to live.
34
@hen3ry This advice should accompany the column on advice to children leaving home to attend college. How many mothers still do the dirty laundry brought home by these students, or go regularly to their dorms to clean up, or parents even write their term papers ??
The fact of the matter is that, in poor households, there is no such thing as an allowance. Poor kids don’t even learn what that word means.
This article assumes that monetary allowances are universal, no matter the economic, educational, or social standing of a family. My siblings and I never received an allowance for household chores and no one in my circle of friends received one. Where do these people do these studies?
10
I think you may be the one making assumptions, LT. These were obviously specific studies confined to families that give their children allowances. And the study is used to explore the disparity between the treatment of boys and girls. There's nothing here that even remotely suggests that allowance giving is a universal practice. Sorry you didn't get an allowance, but this is not a story about the income disparity between groups of adults.
4
In my house we didn't get an allowance, you asked for some money if you needed it going somewhere every once in a while. I never really went anywhere so my sister's technically got the most money.
I feel like the point people are missing is that the women usually h hold most of the control over a household. The is a reason why the saying is daddy's girl and momma's boy. In this instance, a female is just more likely to favor a boy a little more.
I would like a study done on this based on who is, on a regular basis, actually in control of household details.
5
@John
Not only in control of the household, but in control of just about everything.
1
@John I suggest you look up the term "Surrogate Spouse". What you describe isn't healthy.
1
Weird.. I grew up in a rural area and the work I did on a regular basis... my sister couldn't do without assistance... I also cook in my household.. I guess it's about where you grow up.
2
@Don And who your parents are. And how they grew up. And if you only have one parent vs two.
We humans are not creatures of nature so the sexist comments should stop it already. Take a newborn baby stuff him/her into a pack of wolves and that baby in five years time will act, behave, walk and do everything like a wolf. We humans were never creature born with knowledge, but acquired it through observing and being taught. Gesh! Gender roles shouldn't be discuss in terms of science anymore. It is weak and outdated theology that insults the very essence of true science. Enough studies has been conducted since 1930s to show that we humans aren't born with knowledge like other species are. Did you learn to run in just a few minutes after being birthed out? The answer is no. We don't even walk naturally, it was acquired behavior through observing how others walked, ran, and did everything else.
Also, I truly despise these studies because they leave out so many variables. What about individuals with disabilities? I recall learning to fend myself very early in life compare to my siblings. Fending oneself should never be viewed as gender/sex agenda nonsense. Both boys and girls, men and women ought to learn to fend themselves. Baseline skills should never be viewed as roles for one group and not the other. I could never trust a man who is incapable of cleaning, organizing and cooking for himself. It shows lack of discipline and weak character, because if he is incapable of looking after himself, he is incapable of looking after the family.
5
@Juci
Perhaps you would benefit from looking at some nature films. They are readily available on PBS. They make the point over and over again that mammals rescued by humans and reared by humans cannot be released into the wild because they have not been taught by their animal parent(s) [almost always their mothers] tht survival skills hey need to know. If this knowledge is not "cultural" than what is it? They are clearly not born with it. They are, however, born with instincts that make the acquisition of this knowledge possible.
Also, you invoke the concept of "tabula rasa." While humans are not born with an innate knowledge of calculus, we also have the biological foundations for understanding number, unlike many other mammals.
Finally: Human beings are products of both biology and culture. That is exactly the focus of a discipline like sociobiology. Culture alone does not explain human behavior, and neither does biology alone. Complicating matters is that, to a large extent, every human is an individual and therefore, quite literally, one of a kind [sui generis].
3
@Myron Jaworsky
Understanding and accepting the biological basis of behaviors will help us deal with it effectively. We see many behaviors that are labeled as aberrant, abnormal and destructive in society when only the last descriptor is truly accurate if taken with an evolutionary perspective.
We can fix societal problems much faster if we can talk about them freely and approach them rationally with plans that do not run counter to basic human characteristics, but use them constructively instead.
Clever girls like my sister would use their wits to avoid chores. Ruining enough loads of laundry to be removed from that task was one technique; there were many others.
Yes, the system is rigged girls, but it can be beaten.
8
@D Priest
LOL. I had a sister like that too.
1
@D Priest In my era and since when girls tried to sabotage their chores...they were punished and still had to do the same job. No rigging necessary...didn't work.
8
@Marian
Plenty of brothers like that too. Why do people get away with that strategy so often?
I never got an allowance, yet I did all the chores. That means any girl that got an allowance got paid more than me. There's quite a few boys that don't get paid at all. There's quite a few girls that get anything they want. It kinda balances out.
2
@Beardy No it doesn't, which was the point of the article. Yes, there are boys who do chores and don't get paid and boys who do more chores than their sister. But on the aggregate, boys get paid more and do less. Your story is interesting to you, but it does not change the data. It is like you saying"I'm allergic to this medication, therefore no one should take it," even though most people are not allergic and benefit from the medication.
17
@Beardy If you had a sister, she wouldn't get paid either. Allowance is a family characteristic, meaning that either a family gave it, or they did not. Yours didn't. Too bad.
3
We have a boy and a girl, both in their mid teens. Both have virtually identical responsibilities but if I was to be honest, my son gets more work around the house than my daughter.
Dishes: Each kid gets a week and then they switch
My daughter's dishes were often done by my wife or I because my daughter got a part time job. My son didn't have a job so we didn't help him on those busy days with his dishes.
Laundry: Each kid does their own. We never help.
Cleaning: Each kid is assigned a bathroom from time to time. Son does vacuuming. Daughter doesn't do anything else.
Garbage: Daughter is responsible for collecting garbage inside house and taking to garage on garbage day. Son is always being told to take garbage down to garage during the rest of the week. On garbage day son has to take it out to the curb.
As for pocket money, it has always been $1 per year of age, so yes, my daughter was getting less than my son but that was by age, not gender. Once they were old enough to get part time jobs the pocket money dried up for both of them.
My daughter gets other financial advantages that my son does not. This is mostly because she has asked to go on school trips and such and he is not interested.
7
I am sick to death of this overly PC culture. I grew up doing more chores than my sister and never once received an allowance. My dad told me it built character and a good work ethic. I guess in my scenario you're also going to complain my dad didn't give my sister enough chores to build character. Some people will always find something to complain about. America isn't perfect for males either. Plenty of issues on both sides. I currently live in China, please stop complaining about your privileged people "problems".
Sincerely,
24 y/o white male
9
If you're a woman making, on average, 11% less than your male peer for doing exactly the same job, it's not a "privileged people" problem. You may well have been an outlier, but it doesn't invalidate the experience of the majority. They don't make up these studies out of whole cloth, Aaron. And your angry response does nothing to reinforce your claim to a good "character".
22
@Aaron Does your sister feel the same way? Guess her opinion doesn't matter to you. :(
Most women's work is invisible and taken for granted, so chances are she was doing more behind the scenes and didn't get any credit.
8
Not at my house. The one who works is the one who gets paid. In fact I find this article misleading.
3
@Ray
This article does not accurately describe how your household runs. Fair enough.
That does not mean it does not accurately describe how the majority of households studied in this research run.
3
I recall recognizing the injustice of this division of labor when I was a girl in the 50s and 60s. I had to make my brother's bed for him because he whined, "I don't know how!" despite having been shown and despite the fact that by his age I had been making my own bed for a couple of years. I washed dishes for a family of 4 and then cleaned the kitchen to earn a weekly allowance of 50¢. My brother mowed the lawn for $5. I was earning less than 10¢/hour while he was earning double minimum. When he refused to mow the lawn, and I offered, this was not allowed.
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@Jan Priddy I was raised in the 50s and 60s as my brother was as well. Our chores where divided rather equally and we were paid the same. Neither were allowed out of chores unless truly sick. Whining wasn't acceptable either. My brother and I did dishes together for a family of 4, made our own beds, clean up our rooms, both of us helped with yard work, etc. My mother did the laundry but we put our folded clothes away...correctly.
5
@Jan Priddy Sorry to say that your home life was dysfunctional. This is very wrong on several counts. I hope you have learned better and have passed your healthier attitudes to your children. That's the only way that our country, and our species, can improve.
1
How many women today pay their domestic workers [most of whom are poor women] a decent wage.
http://wamc.org/post/dr-vanessa-may-seton-hall-university-labor-law-and-...
Domestics represented the largest category of women workers before 1940 but were excluded from wage and hour legislation until 1974. How had domestics been left out of these reforms?
In New York, two bills proposed a minimum wage and maximum hours for domestics. Surprisingly, prominent WOMEN’S organizations, including the YWCA, the Consumers' League, the League of WOMEN Voters, and the WOMEN’S City Club, refused to fully support the bills. These groups had lobbied hard for the Fair Labor Standards Act. They had written, campaigned for, and championed much of the progressive legislation that made the New Deal transformative. A bill for domestic labor standards could not pass without their support.
Why were they so reluctant? First, the members of these organizations were middle and upper-class WOMEN worried about maintaining access to CHEAP household help. They, like professionals today, depended on domestics to do the housework while they pursued other interests.
20
@david—thank you for mentioning this. My first thought after reading this article, especially the mention that Women are doing less domestic work now than in the past, was _which_ women. They are doing less because they are working outside of the home and those who can afford it hire domestic labor. Often on the cheap.
3
@david Most women I know who have domestic help pay between $20-$25 an hour. And they are by no means rich.
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@david Without giving details, David, my guess is that these acts didn't go far enough! I would definitely block any legislation that pretended to be a great gift but was really a way to lock in unfair practices and create disparity.
My daughter does not do more chores. She is an only child, and she is from a divorced mother and father. I am the father. I do most of the clean up, BUT I will teach her the value of the dollar. She is excited about having children after she meets the man of her dreams. I hope her dreams come true. Being an only child at that, she does get spoiled. She knows very well that both her parents work very hard and she doesn't take things for granted. The best part about that, is that she knows we make very good money and she could get what she wants. Her undestandingthat makes me proud when she doesn't ask for anything. I will purchase her something to surprise her, take her to the zoo, etc. Something constructive. Even if she wants a game for her iPad, PC, console, etc, I make sure she beats the previous game. I know she will turn out good. As long as she keeps up the good grades, stays active in school activities and has good friends, I'll be a proud father. She will learn though in life and will make mistakes, as we all do. And that's OK. That's how we as people survive. Just be kind.
8
@E "man of her dreams" YIKES. one more absurd myth, equally absurd if emanating from a male or a female.
2
They obviously didn't study the household I grew up in. My sisters had minimal chores ( their room, dishes etc.), and starting at about age 6 ( I wasn't very useful then ), I started working for my Dad. He was an electrical contractor. I started earning $5 an hour when I was 10 and could wire a house by the time I was 12. I have no complaints, because it set me on a profitable life path. This goes to show that "studies" are seldom complete. There are differences in situations.
7
@Marvin Somehow you were taught a marketable skill and your sisters did "minimal chores" and you think it's unfair that women complain about being stuck with housework? This is EXACTLY the sort of difference in expectations that puts women at a disadvantage for the rest of their life.
20
@Marvin My house was the same way and I grew up in the late 90-s - 2010. My sister did a couple chores that basically added up to cleaning up after herself (her laundry, cleaning her room/bathroom, feeding her pet) while I did hours of yard work per month in Arizona heat, the pool, my pets/room/laundry, dishes, trash, etc. I can't recall her ever being seriously grounded either while I'd get punished for doing some of the same things.
@Marvin Obviously not. If your childhood household had been part of the study, would it have changed their findings? Probably not.
I thought that recent studies have shown that there
is no pay-gap between men and women for the same job
and the same qualifications and years on the job.
Boys are, on the whole, not as tidy as Girls.
Why the "Gender Bender Study" people seek to
change human nature is beyond me.
6
@John Brown You thought correct. The wage gap is a myth when context is applied.
6
@John Brown the "pay gap" is a multi-variant issue and only someone with an agenda would limit analysis to gender.
The fact is that if you break it down by age you will find that woman often make more than men in certain age brackets.
Plus the simple biological nature of humans leads many women to taking time off work to raise a family.
I've never worked in an organization where hour for hour women got paid less than a man in the same job/level.
1
@John Brown These studies are initiated by unfulfilled, unhappy women who haven't gotten over themselves and their failed relationships with men. Like most people who feel that life is unfair, they would rather spend their lives blaming others for their lack of achievement rather than simply get down to the business of doing a good job at what they've been given.
1
There are many possible factors that influence the difference including physiological. The study should be continued to look into it. The cited study is a start, bit some additional creativity is needed to get to the truth.
Here are a couple of suggestions. Do the boys need more sleep than their female counterparts? How many hours did the young men work in gainful employment outside the home vs. the females?
@Peter
On thing I thought of as I was reading this, is that my daughter is simply more "helpful" than my son. . . By this I mean that she's more regularly asking to help out, whereas the boy it's like a root canal with no anesthetic. Granted, both of my kids are under 10 and this will undoubtedly change over time. . . however my wife and I are very big on keeping their assigned chores equitable for their age gap.
8
@Peter working part time is a factor in REDUCED work load at home for our kids. When our daughter got a part time job we started picking up some of her chores. Our son didn't have a job so we didn't help him out. Now that he does have a part time job we still don't because it's summer time. This fall we expect to be doing more chores while our kids concentrate on school and work part time.
3
@Travis
LOL the root canal reference. The way you describe the difference between the kids is exactly how I feel about some of the employees that I supervise. Guess who will be getting the promotions.
Back in simpler days where women did the housecleaning and care giving and the men worked, has proven to be a good way of life for everyone at that time but as time progressed women and men both have jobs and go to work every day. Nowadays, both moms and dads often have jobs, which means the children have to pitch into the duty of house cleaning and doing chores. For me allowance was not a thing in my house growing up, we had and option on what chores to do and we all choose the one that we wanted to do, so boys getting more allowances than girls was never a problem in my house hold. However, looking from the outside in, I could see how something as simple as allowance can carry out into the real world and real salaries of men and women.
2
@Nicole Baczkowski my wife was ANGRY with my for "making her go back to work" after her mat leave. It drove a huge wedge between us and her resentment really affected our marriage. She blamed me for not being "man enough" to keep her at home. She grew up in latin america and I grew up here so I expected her to work.
Later she ended up just quitting work for a few years (which was a financial catastrophe for us). It was absolutely amazing having her home taking care of the home and the family. I really enjoyed it and so did she. It was also great for out kids!
I'd say if you CAN have one person stay at home then do it (man or woman). Unfortunately I've seen what happens when the man stays home. Often his self esteem drops through the floor and the woman begins resenting him. A good friend went through this and it ended in his wife having and affair and then they divorced.
1
@Nicole Baczkowski
It wasn't all dreamy "and a good way of life for everyone". Many women were going crazy from having no intellectual challenges, turning to valium and alcohol, not being able to fulfill their dreams. Options open to women were teaching, nursing, clerical, and of course domestics -- taking in ironing, cleaning for others, and housewife.
21
@Nicole Baczkowski That was not true for women of the lower classes. Many women worked in that mythical past time. They were just poor and likely women of color, so we don't talk about them. And many women of the middle class would have loved to work, but we're not allowed after they married or had kids. Don't imagine the past was perfect.
9
When we were kids (ages 7,8,9), my 2 brothers asked my mom why they had to help do the dishes, since 'that was girls work'. Apparently my mom was an early feminist, because she continued to make them help me do the dishes.
33
@Chris M YES, I did. And, I did the dishes. I did the dusting and vacuuming. And cleaned the bathrooms. I made beds. And swept the floors...
And I mowed the lawns. I did the watering. I raked and pulled weeds. I fed the chickens. Took care of the dog. And I was the one who burned on burn days. No chemicals. No chainsaw. We hired that out. That was my mother's limits.
Pray tell, what did you do?
1
It’s as if the discipline of sociobiology didn’t exist. The behavior of typical human males and females is entirely consistent with that of other mammals.
There is no such thing as gender equality, except as a doctrine in politically correct discourse. There are gender differences, and these are biologically based. There is also an overlap of male and female characteristics since, for now, all humans get their genetic make-up from a female and a male
I plan to complain to the NYT Ombudsman, if one still exists, about the moderator here. None of my comments have made it past the moderator,
7
Yet here you are! How do you apply your gender essentialism to the article in question? Do you feel boys should be paid more for doing less housework than girls?
9
@AnnaT
I surmise from your citation of gender essentialism that you have had some foundation in feminist or gender studies. I won't hold it against you.
Let's do a thought experiment involving Estimated Energy Requirements (EER), a study of differences in calorie needs between males and females. The EERs are well documented, readily available, and normed to subjects of reference heights and weights, except in cases of pregnant or lactating women.
Caloric requirements are pretty much the same for boys and girls until about age 10 or so. At that point, boys simply require many more calories than girls do. And as they grow older, males require more calories than females do. (Obviously, a 6 foot tall woman fighting a wild fire in California will need many more calories than a 5' 4" male nebbish collecting postage stamps.)
So, to invoke concept from from cultural studies, the social reproduction of male labor output requires higher values of resource inputs from about the age of 10 (or so) on. This includes doing chores.
So they need more food -- and mo' money than females do. That's why, in a capitalist system, female labor is privileged over male labor. The entry of women into the money economy has resulted in massive reductions to men's earnings and is one of the prime reasons wages and salaries have been stagnant. And to top it off, a significant portion of female compensation goes to child care and work expenses.
Sociobiology, coined in the early 1970s, is not a “discipline” per se but an ideology driven manipulation of Darwinist principles to justify social segregation as “natural.” E.O. Wilson, one of its central advocates, has been consistently challenged about it. Indeed, numerous scientists (and colleagues of Wilson’s) during the mid-1970s, including Stephen Jay Gould and Richard Lewontin, denounced sociobiology outright as an heir to eugenics, now dressed up in more seductive clothes. Even today, its status as a “discipline” remains specious.
14
I must have grown up in some culture and gender warp. 60 to 70 years ago when I was a child, doing household chores was something all members of my family did to take care of necessary life tasks. My brother and I didn't get paid for chores. Allowances for my brother and I were equal, and were given to us as a share in family resources, but primarily to teach us money management. We had pocket money, and were also given what we needed for piano lessons or other activities, and a small amount for clothes that we could save and spend as we wanted. My Dad washed dishes, and my Mom rinsed, or vise versa, and I wiped and put away. I was five. Some of my earliest memories are of my Dad cooking. My brother did those same chores. When grass needed mowing the task was not assigned by gender but by who could do it at a particular time; Dad, Mom, brother or me. My brother learned to cook and my Dad taught me about electricity. My mother taught me how to change a car tire. But the main point is that "work" that needed to be done to keep the household running was not assigned by gender. And, we were not paid to do those necessary tasks. The tasks were simply our responsibility as contributing members of the family. Wages were for labor performed outside the family, but again, the labor we offered was not constrained by gender; both my brother and I earned money mowing lawns.
50
@Barbara
My dad would be in his 90s if still alive and he cleaned/washed/tidied as much as my mother did. She did yard work 'beause why should dad come home to do it on nights or weekends when we could be doing fun things together?'
We were expected to help out and indeed cleaning was made into a fun event, not presented as a horrible chore. We all remain clean and neat lo these 50 years later.
My dad would often take us to the cottage as very little children, leaving my mom to enjoy a peaceful weekend home. He was perfectly capable of cooking, organizing our clothes, putting our hair in ponytails and providing clean bedding.
Who is it out there that still has gendered household task lists, in 2018?
13
Not the case in my home growing up. But the fact there were 5 boys and only one girl probably had a lot to do with it. My sister (and youngest brother) could get away with murder. And by the time my youngest brother was old enough for most chores my parents were well enough off to afford a house keeper.
Now that I have a family of my own, we have two boys and we are probably done having kids. Looks like boys will be doing most of the chores in our household too.
1
One thing I find disturbing about this article, is the fact that boys are being paid for basic personal hygiene. I understand that little boys tend to have an aversion to water, toothbrushes, and other hygiene items. However, paying them to accomplish these tasks teaches them they should be paid to do anything. And we wonder why women are expected to take on the additional unpaid responsibilities in the office whether it's ordering lunch, wiping down the kitchen counter, or making sure a sick colleague gets a get-well card. When, boys are taught that taking care of themselves is something they should be paid for and girls are taught that that's part of their responsibilities regardless of pay, we end up with a situation where men expect to be paid for every little task and women are expected to take care of things because somebody thinks it's their responsibility.
142
I wonder if it also helps explain the vast disparity in clothing, grooming, and general appearance one so often sees in heterosexual couples out on a date.
36
@Martha It also explains some of the angry incels. There are some people who are not motivated to develop social skills and grooming practices until their hormones kick in, which means they end up behind their peers who have had more time to practice.
7
Per usual, males feel the need to trumpet how their childhoods were different, how they had to do more than their sisters, how they were paid less, etc., etc. Newsflash: it's not about YOU. It's about the AVERAGE household. But I would even tolerate and enjoy the individual accounts, were it not for the inevitable guy(s) who protest the study results without offering any study or facts in return, other than "It's my opinion so it must be right!"
82
@ms
Reducing thought to the average situation is clearly a problem. People are diverse and so are families.
@Peter No, reducing situations to the average lets us see patterns in our culture. Studies that have an n of 1 are merely antidotes. Cute and interesting to the person involved, but useless to the rest of us. I'm allergic to advil- if you did a study of Advil and I was the only person being studied, you'd conclude Advil is dangrous and and useless. But if you study a larger population, you can see I'm unusual and most people benefit from Advil for mild pain.... Just as if you study only one family, you can't see any trends. Let's teach kids data literacy, so they understand this simple fact. I'm amazed at how many readers of this article don't seem to grasp the difference between their personal story about chores and a research study.
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@Kj
I did not mean that the statistic "average" is useless, only that it is often inadequate to tell the whole story. Take household income, for example. If you look at the average for the United States, or to a lesser extent, the median, we are all doing great. Oops, nonsupervisory workers are now making about 8% less than they did in the 70s. No wonder they voted for Trump. Oops, for the first 20+ years that data was collected, compensation/GDP was pretty constant. Since 1970ish, there has been a choppy decline.
It the average person is not allergic to Advil, can I give it to everyone? No, we need a better way to report that personal "feature".
How many schools have Home Economics classes (for girls) and Shop (for boys)? It takes a village to support a curriculum; maybe this is the way the parents in these communities want their children to be taught.
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@Tulley Many schools have the classes you refer to; however they now have different names. Home Economics is now Family & Consumer Science (everywhere except California, for some reason) and "shop" is usually referred to as Industrial Science or other terms. Family & Consumer Science is often abbreviated as FCS or FACS. Some people lose sight of these classes when the names changed. But you are right that it takes a village to support a curriculum. Sometimes administrators and boards feel the need to cut these programs because they are not "core subjects" and dollars are short. But these are the classes that make math and science real for students.
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@Tulley fewer and fewer schools teach shop separately to boys and girls in the 21st century.
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I only wish said classes still existed! It'd go a long way toward backstopping my own informal 'here's how you make a balanced meal on $1.50' instruction.
My Dad (blue-collar, no HS) encouraged me to take shop class for 4 years, which I did. Gave me an appreciation for his work, taught me how to read plans (a skill I use with scary regularity), and highlighted how poorly made many current products are.
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I feel like its easier to get girls to do chores around as compared to boys. I'm saying girls are more willing to do chores where boys are willing to fight instead of doing chores. If this is correct it would contribute to the disparity in time as well as pay.
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@Eric F Depends what you mean by "chores". You won't find boys jumping up to do the dishes, but if there's a wasp nest to eradicate, a driveway to powerwash or a pile of wood to chop... you can't get the boys off it.
@Martin And how often are there wasps net that need to be irradicated compared with how often dished need to be washed?
@Eric F Well, Eric, my kids couldn't get out the door without having their work done. No friends, no concerts, nothing. That's how we teach personal responsibility.
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Sometimes it feels to me like the housework gap is partly due to how we define it, how much we talk about it, a difference in priorities, and about control.
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@B Eaton
I observe that women are more inclined to run around after a man second-guessing his performance at household chores and 'correcting' when they see fit (same for childrearing) than the reverse.
Beinng critiqued would demotivate me, and I'm a woman.
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@B Eaton Yes! Often a woman makes it seem as though she's the boss of the housework detail and you work for her. Maybe if they'd relax and find a middle way men would engage more.
@DaveD
During my mature dating days, defined at post-college, I encountered several women that appeared threatened by my ability to care for myself, meaning cook for for the most part. (They never got to the point of finding out that I could clean and do laundry.) Quite in retrospect, I came to the conclusion that they could not take the competition. Even though they were accomplished "professionals" already, some needed the traditional female roles to fall back on. Too bad I did not realize the root of the problem at the time. Some of us might have been quite happy together.
Perhaps the criticism of the performance of tasks traditional for women, that Kosher mentioned and the control mentioned by B Eaton, is a defense mechanism.
The woman I married seemed quite content after I invented her over for dinner and sent her home with her share of the leftovers.
In the household I grew up as well as my cousins and peers, the boys typically did all the yard work and trash as routine. Anything else that needed done fell on the boys as well.
My mother was different. She felt I, the only boy, should learn to keep house as well. I shared dishes and laundry. But floors including vacuuming was ALL ME. Yard work routine and other necessary items as they occur was ALL ME.
Allowance? Just asking for any such ridiculousness could get you whipped.
I've heard it before and I here it again: "Women are unfairly paid" But yet, when anything a women don't want to do, a guy gets tasked with it. In short: I share the load + whatever the woman doesn't want to do. And as a male nurse, I don't get advanced at the same rate.
Stop spreading lies
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@Sgt G wow. Except every study on division of household labor shows women doing twice as much as men.
Most men are not doing “half plus what she doesn’t want.” Such utter nonsense. It seems that most men on here with their anecdotal stories think there’s a laundry fairy, dish fairy, clean up husbands floor clothes fairy, and a fairy to do all the things he doesn’t see her do.
Just because you don’t see us do it, doesn’t mean we’re not doing it. We’re doing a LOT more than men on the whole.
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@Sgt G
In my neighborhood of about 20 houses, where I've lived for 20 years, I'm the only woman who does yardwork -- mowing, hedge trimming, edging, weed trimming, shrub pruning. The other inhabitants range from their early 30s to early 80s and NO other woman on this block does outdoor work.
Yet -- their menfolk are expected to do 50/50 childrearing, shopping, kid transportation, cooking and cleaning. The women do "extra" in terms of frills like organizing birthday parties, home decor, Pinteresty stuff, etc., but essential life maintenance is split, while the guys also get the yard work, snow removal and in most cases main financial burden. It's an interesting dynamic to observe.
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@Kosher DillIn my lifetime, men's contribution to family life has always been downgraded by society and men tolerated it pretty universally. I suspect that they think it is necessary to keep the women happy and accept it because of that. In entertainment men are generally presented as totally incompetent at any child rearing responsibilities and women have to save the day. Women do housework while men "putter around the house" while the women get together to complain that that the men don't do housework.
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"paid for personal hygiene"? What??? I want to hear from someone who pays their kid for brushing teeth. That is the stupidest idea I've heard since yesterday.
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It's possible that it's more common for boys to be out hunting, making money, or playing competitive sports--as a sort of training for manhood expectations that most--not all--boys will eventually feel from most--not all--women.
"...Eearning-related stress arise later, when a woman wanted to relinquish her breadwinning role, often to spend time with children or change to a more flexible, and possibly less lucrative, career. “It can put a great deal of pressure on men to step up and figure out the income differential. . . .”"
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/06/your-money/marriage-men-women-finance...
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Parents should treat their children fairly, including equity for boys and girls.
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@Yuki So then... girls should then be expected to chop wood, powerwash the driveway, eliminate wasp nests, clean gutters from atop ladders, trap rats, etc.? As well as doing the dishes?
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I did many of the chores you mention--not chopping wood and not trapping rats, since neither were applicable, but including others like lifting sod. In my current life, it turns out that I have better balance and a less injury-prone back than my husband (the "Mike" of this account), and so I'm most often the one up on ladders or pulling stumps. If I had had daughters, they certainly would have joined me in those activities.
@Martin they should do half of those things, just as boys should do half of the typical female assigned chores. I want my unborn child to know how to do all those things, so they are able to cope when they grow up.
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It is one of my goals of parenting to undo societal stereotypes like this. I was lucky to have both a boy and a girl, which helps with my mission. I want them to see each other as equals, so starting from the start they both do everything. They're only 2 and 4 years old, the boy being the younger, but they can clean up their toys, sweep the floor, scramble eggs etc. and they take turns doing the same chore. I come from a family with extreme gender stereotyping embedded into every generation, and am determined to break the pattern. So my husband cooks and I maintain the garden, we do laundry together and tend to the kids together, and the kids will both do all kinds of chores and their only payment for that will be the satisfaction of being a capable, independent human being. Once you start paying them money to do basic bodily functions (like using the potty) and basic hygiene and life skills, you've gone down the wrong path entirely.
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“Boys are also paid more allowance than girls for doing chores, according to a recent analysis of 10,000 families that use BusyKid, a chore app. Boys using the app earned twice what girls did for doing chores — an average of $13.80 a week, compared with girls’ $6.71. . . Boys are also more likely to be paid for personal hygiene, like brushing teeth or taking a shower, according to BusyKid. Girls are more likely to be paid for cleaning. “
I had no idea that the disparity in wages men receive vs. women began at home and at an early age. I guess that explains a lot and why this practice and mindset continues in the work place.
Paying kids an allowance for personal hygiene? Parents really do that? What’s next – paying kids to go to school and to do their homework?
Thank you for sharing such sad, depressing but important information. It was clearly very illuminating on so many levels.
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@Marge Keller that already happened. I had high school classmates who got paid for good report cards.
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@Letitia Jeavons
I agree--paying children for good grades isn't new. I went to elementary school in the 1960s (District of Columbia public schools) with classmates who said they were paid.
Girls mature faster and can be trusted with responsibility at an earlier age. They're often less likely to get sidetracked.
They might want to be more helpful than boys and respond better to kind words and praise (boys will often ask for a present/payment for doing something).
Also, they might like chores because of what it signifies. More chores = more responsibility = more recognition = more freedom.
Like the article says, chores often indicate maturity.
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@LR Something I read recently comes to mind: Girls don't mature faster than boys, girls are penalized from an early age for the same behavior that boys are allowed to indulge in well into adulthood
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@LR That may be a nice sounding theory, but in reality, boys are outside engaging in "man's work", like powerwashing the front steps, changing the oil in the car, rotating the tires, chopping wood and other chores that are part of the invisible spectrum of light for females. Have you EVER seen a woman at a gas station checking under the hood for low oil? Neither have I. And that's because they aren't aware that a car engine needs oil.
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@Martin Well then, you have not seen enough women. As a little girl, I not only cooked, cleaned, sewed, etc., I helped my dad paint the house, stain the cabinets, make book shelves, AND check the car for low oil and low tire pressure.
I, too, was Cinderella. My mother did nothing. I washed the dishes every night (including Graduation Night and Sr. Prom night). When I left for college, they bought a dishwasher so my brother wouldn't have to do any work. He was an "artist". My mother did his "job" of setting the table. My dad was the one who cleaned with my help. I ironed his work shirts every week. I enjoyed doing useful work and still do. I paid for half my college; my brother paid nothing. He turned out well anyway. He totally changed after leaving home. Very involved at his home. No role restrictions. Just sayin'.
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@CH What you experienced is called child abuse. I'm terribly sorry. At least you recognize that it was wrong. Look up parentified or adultified. That describes this dysfunctional dynamic where children loose their childhood.
Back in the early to mid 60's as the eldest daughter of 3 I spent a lot of time doing house work, especially cooking as my mother also had a job and sometimes got home around 7pm. I was proud to be able to make a nice dinner for 5. The "girls" baked every week end. My younger brother David often got paid for mowing, even though we all got the same allowance.
He managed to do such a slow and bad job cleaning the kitchen after dinner that finally he was finally excused. The "girls" did that, but on nights I cooked my sister cleaned up.
Dad would pay me $1 for washing the car inside and out. Additionally I mowed lawns, babysat, did pet siting and did light housekeeping for some neighbors to earn spending money. Brother David might have mowed a few lawns for pay, but that was about it.
I ironed my dad's work shirts for his white collar job, helped wash and hang out laundry, cleaned my own room and did much of the light housekeeping as my younger sister was more interested in hanging out with her friends. I also walked and cleaned up after the dog.
I maintained my own clothing, including sewing some of my clothes (mom had taught us girls) which I enjoyed. As an older teen I waitressed and bought my own clothes & shoes & even managed to buy and old car when I was a senior in high school.
David didn't clean his own room & didn't do any of the the "chores" listed above. My mother continued to buy & wash his clothes even after he moved out.
I was proud to be mother's little helper.
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@Brandy Danu That's called discrimination. Sorry you had to live like that, even if you aren't.
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My older and younger brother didn't do anything at home but because I was the only girl, my mother expected me to cook, clean, vacuum, sew, wash the windows and do the laundry and dishes. I also mowed the lawn, raked leaves and picked weeds. (I considered myself a modern day Cinderella and not in a good way.) Meanwhile my brother's lived like Saudi Princes' and did absolutely nothing related to housework except occasionally mowing the lawn and continue to live like this, 35 years after our childhood ended.
At a young age (when I was 10), I vowed never to marry and never did. I also never wanted kids because I thought there were too many people in the world and I didn't want to be responsible for all the selfless care of children. Today my brother's earn 3 to 4 times as much as me despite all of us having university degrees past the bachelor's degree.
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@Sasha Love And this is the truth of it. It's called sexual discrimination and it's very real. This permeates outside the home and into a society filled with sexual discrimination. We must set ourselves as examples in order to eradicate this dysfunctional thinking.
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@Sasha Love you have smart brothers
I don't know what planet these people did their "research" on but when i was growing up I mowed the lawn, shoveled the driveway, cleaned and maintained the pool, cleaned the ashtrays, emptied the wastepaper baskets, and my older sister and I shared the dishwashing and post meal clean-up. She "needed" more allowance because of the "need" for more "beauty" products, and I was deemed fully capable of delivering newspapers, mowing lawns and shoveling driveways for money. Maybe they focused on urban areas for their research, but I suspect that, like too much "research" their research "showed" what they set out to prove.
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@Upstate Dave or maybe your one anecdotal experience is irrelevant to actual studies with thousands of people.
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Dave, I’m so glad you pulled your weight. You sound like a stand-up guy. But surely you can agree that the sample size you are using (1 person, aka you) is somewhat less than scientific?
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@Heather Thousands of people where? New York City, Long Island, Westchester County, and San Francisco? Maybe I missed it but I didn't notice any mention of splitting wood so I guess Main, VT and NH didn't figure in.
Despite the myth of wage discrimination, there is no evidence women and men get paid any differently for the same work. Their average wages are different because women tend to work in less lucrative occupations, work fewer hours, and take more time off from their careers. Equal pay for equal work has been the law of the land since the 60s.
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@Caleb Mars You need to read some of the voluminous research studies in medicine showing women in the same subspecialites working the same hours, are routinely paid 20-30% less than their male peers.
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@Lisa Alderson
Additionally, there are the "salaried" positions where women are assigned 5x the work, but are paid the same. I realize that this is anecdotal - and therefore does not count for anything - but I am a Nuclear Engineering graduate student, and I have never had the same responsibilities as my male coworkers. In my first graduate school, they needed to "focus on their classwork", while I was expected to take shifts on experiments, spend 40 hours assembling a detector array in the lab every week, TA for 3 labs a week, grade all of the lab reports from the same labs, and also attend the same classes as the men. Obviously, this happened to many of the female students.
After I graduated with a Master's degree and changed schools, I am now expected to TA multiple undergraduate classes and work on my dissertation (amounting to over 100 hours per week on just TA work this last spring). My male coworkers occasionally work in the lab. They also get paid more than me when they only have Bachelor's degrees. I also won't get into peer-reviewed journal articles and their significance, but the current count is
Me: coauthor on 45
Every male student in both the Nuclear Engineering and Physics departments combined: coauthors on ~25 total .
I stopped keeping track of the estimated amount of money that I have been docked by being female when that number surpassed $100,000.
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@Lisa Alderson
References please.
Must be that evil matriarchy at work...
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The same could be said about "male" specific chores. The flip side that this article fails to mention is that men have always been expected to sacrifice more family time than women in their careers.
Sacrifice isn't always measured in dollars.
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@mrpisces
But there's no such thing as a "male specific chore." That's the whole point! Washing dishes has nothing to do with gender, and nor does being CEO of a major corporation. You call washing dishes and scrubbing the floor "family time"??? Because I certainly don't. It's just unpaid work.
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@EB You're very correct that there is nothing inherent in almost all chores toward a specific gender. However, I think mrpisces wasn't referring to the unpaid work time women spend a disproportionate amount of time on, but that even with that unpleasant work women are usually able to spend more time with their children. I think we can recognize that many men who would like to spend more time with their families don't get a choice either- at times because their wives are deprived of the option to work for higher pay. The patriarchy hurts women and men.
“Boys are also more likely to be paid for personal hygiene, like brushing teeth or taking a shower.”
Wow.
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@Sophie L.
I know someone who did this. I was surprised to learn that she was not the only one! Her son turned out well, but we all had doubts!
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I wish somebody would pay me!
Equality starts at home. It is our duty, as parents to treat our children fairly, without gender bias. If we fail to do so, gender inequalities will remain.
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@Anne Bouci - don't confuse gender difference with gender inequality. Boys and girls are physically different on average and should take on different chores. This opinion piece bemoans the boys lack of household chores, yet mentions nothing about who's washing the car, cutting the grass, sweeping the drive, etc. I suspect the inequality is typically much less than this tries to paint.
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My husband, born in the 1950s, was the eldest of 6: 3 boys and 3 girls, all of whom spent equal time on chores, of which there were a lot. On a daily basis I am grateful to his mother who, while not college educated, is a brilliant woman. She told me once, “If it were up to my husband, the girls would have been waiting on the boys. I told him, ‘Not in my house!’” It’s quite nice to be married to a man who was raised that way!
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@Meg My husband was raised like that, too! It is quite nice indeed. His mother told him that he needed to be a self-sufficient adult who doesn't need somebody else to wipe his a$$ like a baby. That's a great approach - use the ego angle of independence and self-sufficiency. Smart, and effective.
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@Meg My own father is like this! He was one of 6 boys, so there could be no "gender gap" - things had to get done! My father cooks, does the laundry, grocery shopping, etc. and has been a 50/50 parent to my sister and I for our entire lives. It's amazing!
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@DH I agree, and I believe women should change the oil in their own cars, eradicate wasp nests and crawl through the attic hunting for rats, just like men do. Ah, the sweet smell of "equality".
My son and my daughter both did the same very minimal amount!
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