I think this story requires a Part II, why people leave as I'm almost certain they'd stay home if it was sustainable, especially "in the last few years" and "disease and drought". In this story: "Many ..... are subsistence farmers, growing mostly corn and beans. Until a few years ago, coffee was a profitable and widespread crop. ... disease and drought have destroyed local production, bankrupting many small-scale farmers and adding to the flow of northward migrants."
1
I agree that these people had no lawful. legitimate reason to believe they could stay in the U.S., and should have been deported. However, many of those commenting and expressing support for Trump's "zero tolerance" policy, which includes deporting people fleeing gang violence, need to reflect on the fact that THIS country's appetite for drugs has, to an extent, created these gangs.
9
Stop the presses !
An accurate story about how illegal aliens are invading America - and dragging their kids along - for their own selfish economic purposes.
I waited until I was almost 54 to see the Cubs win a World Series. Now I can say I read a fair story about illegal aliens in the Times.
Two miracles in one lifetime !
33
"Picking up pieces from a shattered dream ."
The "shattered dream" was :
1. Entering the United States illegally
2. "Getting a better education for their daughters"
3. "Generally improving their lives."
4."Being picked up at the border immediately, released quickly to wait their day in court, which could take years, given the backlog."
5. Planning to evade prosecution by using their child.
6 .A careful planned plot to execute this plan
After executing this carefully planned plot to enter this country illegally, using her child as a pawn, Ms. Pulex
felt "guilty and impotent, because there're nothing you can do."
Ms. Pulex should feel guilty, but not impotent.
She should feel guilty because she did this to her own child. She wasn't impotent. She schemed to enter the United States ,illegally, using her child as a pawn. She had expected to be rewarded ,but was not.
The NYT has just presented a compelling argument in favor of President Trump's zero tolerance policy.
46
Trump is president here. Why would anyone want to be here. We have to save these people from the rule of Trump. Send them back for their own good!
7
Is this story supposed to elicit sympathy? What's your point NYT?
It's a simple matter of someone getting caught entering illegally and being sent home. Someone not getting what they wanted.
Too bad.
No one was killed or maimed, so don't position it in a way that makes it look like more than it is.
It's getting old.
45
They had a plan. Indeed, the American people have gotten wise to these so called “plans” and are determined to STOP them before we really have open borders and anyone can cross our borders and use our schools and hospitals and take jobs once reserved for the poorest citizens.
43
The US should open its borders and allow in all these refugees. The country is prosperous enough to allow millions.
3
@Kris: you should talk...just FYI, I used to work in Brussels. Yes, an American working in an international company in Waterloo, living in Overijse. I had the kind of expertise no Belgians had, so I got a job there, but I could have gone to Germany. I can tell you that most Belgians are fine, decent and friendly people, but others bitterly resented foreigners “taking jobs away from Belgians”, and they would tell that to your face. Needles to say after a year I returned to my country, via Germany. The climate in Belgium, I am told, hasn’t changed towards well educated, non Muslim, white foreigners.
The moral of the story: everyone protects its jobs, culture, and way of life. So prosperity has nothing to do with the problem. Perhaps you should lobby for Belgium to accept all the people who want to come to the US. I would gladly pay the airfare for a couple of them.
14
@Kris Even if we did, this family would not qualify. They aren't refugees fleeing war, violence or persecution. Poverty yes, but there's billions living in poverty; I wouldn't classify a family that can pay smugglers $5000 as amongst the most needy.
19
well, Trump's get-tough strategy works doesn't it?
25
I bet ICE took her phone and is looking at her contacts here in the states and preparing deportation proceedings. This explicitly explains how illegal immigrants game the system.
32
So this family gave the fangs they were trying to escape $5000 Seems self defeating to fund the group you are escaping and afraid of. I’m sure $5000 in Guatemala would go a long way ii funding a business-I started mine with $2700 (construction) twenty years ago and now do over $50 million a year.
37
I have a hard time believing that Ms. Pulex thought her complicated plan to sneak into the US would go off without a problem. Even in movies it's hard to sneak into a country without a passport. She's treating the whole thing like it's "Mission Impossible" (the TV show) and she's also trying to abuse the weaknesses in American immigration controls. Either way, it's inexcusable. She gambled a lot of money and she lost.
43
@Matthew
Dunno, that complicated plan to sneak into the US seems to have worked for at least a few million previous entrants.
11
Shame on every person who thinks this "worked."
2
The cruelty of our government makes me physically sick.
1
Family separation?
They bring it on themselves by crashing the gates to come here.
Reunifcation?
They can be re-unifed any time they want -- outside the USA.
Over seven billion people live outside the USA.
Billions of them want to come to the USA.
If the open borders crowd has its way, all of them could come here merely because they want to.
LImits -- hard numerical limits are needed,
and they need to be enforced --
enforced without endless legal foot-dragging.
52
I moved out of the US and became a legal resident in a foreign country (on my own without the aid of an employer). I went through the bureaucracy required and in no way ever believed I could just stroll up on the shores of a foreign country and set up my life without following proper and legal protocol. There are hardship stories all over the world and the US cannot take on each and every one of them. There are rules and regards regarding the entry of foreign nationals to the US and unlawful immigration needs to be addressed and stopped. This should not be a partisan issue. Fwiw I am a Democrat.
56
These people are illegal immigrants who come for economic reasons. It is correct to deport them. Every other country in the world does this without the fuss or fanfare of US media.
58
There seems to be the view that anyone who sympathizes with the mistreatment of “illegal aliens” wants to fling open the gates and generously absorb every single poor migrant who manages to step foot on US soil. It is not true. We can certainly do the math and realize that is niether possible nor desirable.
We are instead suggesting that people coming to the US for economic opportunities should be treated like someone committing a misdemeanor rather than a vicious criminal trafficking children across the border. I believe that is what the 8th Amendment of the Constitution requires. If they learned to “game the system” then change the system. Don’t intentionally traumatize 6 year old girls as a deterent to her parents.
6
@Julie Agreed, idealistically. No family separation. So, are you advocating detaining/ jailing the kids together with the parents? Or Catch and Release...
Realistically, the administrative juggernaut of processing these applications and verifying who is an asylum seeker vs. those wanting better economic circumstances takes resources and time. And in those years of limbo, undocumented migrants establish lives in the US and become a part of the American economy and fabric. The majority never show up for their court date.
This IS one solution of changing the system. It's just that the trade-offs are horrific to some, and palatable to others... if the comments section is one indicator of what side even NYTimes readers falls on, the Democrats are in trouble for 2018...
15
While some of the illegal entrants wait upon US soil for their court dates, which takes years, they have a few babies born here and then NEVER leave. They immediately qualify for most federal benefits and programs as soon as they have a baby.
Instant lotteria winners. Catch and release is a very goood thing for them.
53
Please don’t come to the United States if you have no legitimate asylum claim. The system that gave this family the idea that they should risk their safety and the safety of their children is corrupt. My guess is that more than a third of the anti illegal immigration comments on here are from Democrats. To the left wing of the party - you will lose if you favor letting in economic migrants like this family. The money we spend preventing illegal immigration could be going to educate our own kids or to provide economic aid to the home countries of those immigrants to make life better there. Living in the United States is a right and a privilege - if you’re here illegally - please go away.
47
The lack of empathy in the comment section of articles about immigration is ridiculous. Calling them economic migrants is just another way to support nativism. When colonizers came to the Americas they were truly economic migrants. Why did they not just stay in their home nation and improve it? Stop trying to justify immigration limitations imposed on these people. Check your privilege.
3
@West Coast Ronin
There are 7 billion people in this world, most of whom are poor. How many do you want here? I am a Democrat and have never voted for a Republican, by the way
20
Comparisons with the distant past are completely absurd. It wasn’t idyllic. The Aztecs and Incas were expansionist empires that engaged in human sacrifice. The Iroquois engaged in conflicts with neighboring Algonquin tribes. War and displacement of prior civilizations has been happening for eons.
The European conquest of the Americas is a distant historical event that created the conditions for our current democracies. Almost no countries were democracies back then. People didn’t have means to change their nations for the better, beyond engaging in protracted civil wars.
Immigration was mostly open borders for hundreds of years because we were poor then. People died on boats crossing the Atlantic. People were designated imbeciles and turned back at Ellis Island. People who landed died from disease, starvation, and violence. Cities were filled with slums. Farmers dealt with drought, floods, and pestilence. Many actually went back to Europe. There was no social welfare, minimum wage, workplace safety, or even reliably clean water back then.
The context for past immigration is completely different from now. America issues a million green cards annually to a broad cross section of the world, including economic immigrants who wait years for their visas. Deporting illegal immigrants in this context is hardly nativist or privileged. It makes the system fairer.
41
This is naive magical thinking. I am a dyed in the wool New York City liberal, and even I cannot agree we can continue to uncritically absorb all illegal economic migrants who want to come here. Of course we must treat of migrants humanely but people like this should be sent home.
27
Trump and Sessions’ plan worked. Whatever it takes to stop illegal immigration.
31
Most Americans are not amused at these scam and illegal tactics - paying smugglers $5,000 of hard earned money to cross the border illegally, 'between legal entry points' as the NYT euphemistically referred to it, and being surprised when they were detained instead of being released immediately with a court date set years in the future (that has historically been skipped 90% of the time) as 10s of millions have done before.
In another piece, the suit brought on by the ACLU resulted in a court order to temporarily halt migrant family deportations. This will surely backfire at the poles in 2018 and 2020. Not being satisfied that the families were reunited, the ACLU pressed the button to stop deportations altogether. The ACLU and the activist judge actually gave the GOP a gift - it is clear that the real goal for some is open borders, and the abolishment of ICE – and this is definitely a losing policy position for the electorate. You will see Nov 2018.
44
Public school tuition in the USA runs between 19,000 and 30,000 per year. To say that a family such as this is cost free to the taxpayer because they pay taxes is simply wrong. Assuming the plan worked they would have had two kids in school and there is no way they were going to be paying 40 to 60,000 in taxes per year. That is leaving out health care for the children given what their low income would be. The problem with this situation is wage compression in the US. Why hire roofers, or agricultural workers at 25 or 30 per hour when you can get Guatemalans for 9 per hour or less? Until employers are penalized for hiring illegal workers nothing is going to change. If we do not want to penalize employers then we should simply open the border and integrate central America and Mexico into the US. Obviously these are failed states that despite significant natural resources have done nothing for their citizens. Without border control the US is not a nation....it is a war and finance machine.
46
@AS
Public school cost is about $8,000 per student in average, but the point stands.
6
There is an expression – bloom where you are planted. The pictures of the town of Santa Rosa de Lima are actually nice, except for the 2 pics of the house that the Pulex family lives in, but they most probably had lived in a better house before it was sold to pay the $5,000 fee to the smugglers.
The church is cute as is the church courtyard with the elaborate gate and fencing. The downtown also looks nice, and the playground is covered, which is a great idea. How many playgrounds in the US are covered? I have never seen any- maybe some towns in the US could borrow a page from Santa Rosa de Lima and cover their playgrounds.
Tourism is one of the main industries in Guatemala, worth approx $2 billion per year, from their two million tourists who visit annually. The place has potential. Advocates should be investing in the country and demanding that the government solve their gang problem, instead of encouraging the citizens to illegally migrate to the US. That is the only tangible solution.
26
The separation of this mother from her child was terrible. But the family's rationale for trying into immigrate to the United States and the calculations surrounding that effort will only fuel Trumpist lies about "open borders".
8
It is not moral to pursue, as your first act in a new country, breaking the law. There are thousands of people around the world who wait to enter the US legally. It is not a moral act to jump in front of those people. And to use your child in order to gain advantaged status so that you aren't immediately deported is deeply immoral.
There is, btw, no reason why a country like Guatemala - or any other in Central America - could not be wealthy. The ingredients are not that difficult. If you have sound money, private property, rule of law, and ease of opening a business then you have capitalism and you have the greatest force that the world has ever known to bring people out of poverty. People in Central America need to choose this system if they want a better life. Coming to America and voting for the failed systems of Central America (promises of free stuff) will only destroy this country. Look at Hong Kong. No natural resources, just a rock in the ocean. But they had capitalism and became one of the richest nations in the world. Look at Venezuela which sits on the largest oil reserves in the entire world and they are eating cats - if they're lucky - because they chose socialism. If you choose capitalism then you don't have to break American laws to reach a capitalist country. You can create it right there in your home country.
36
Possibly the most uninformed comment I have read in a while. While I sympathize with the argument that people should respect immigration laws, claiming that prosperity is possible "just like that" is naive. The invisible hand of market capitalism does not right all wrongs. Remember, how the UN stated just recently that the US has a shamefully high level of people living in poverty? How is all that capitalism working for ya?
11
@Someone With few exceptions, the poor in America are richer than those in the rest of the world. By a lot. The rich in America are also richer than the in the rich in the rest of the world. So yes, capitalism works quite well thank you.
The author of this story makes it sound as if this family accidentaly and innocently took a wrong turn and inadvertently landed themselves in a hostile place. Being separated from one's child must be an awful thing but these parents are not victims.
46
From the comments here, all of our relatives must have been asylum seekers (and deservers), not hopeful travelers wanting a better life. Yes, of course YOUR family was escaping . . .
The consistent and uninspiring language - economic immigrants - demonstrates a simplified and supplied narrative.
4
@Hmmm
Ancestors were then.
This is now.
The world has changed.
Time to get yourself into the here and now.
Here and now, the USA has more than 330 million people, 10 times what it had in 1870, 150 years ago, and 3 times what it had in 1920, 100 years ago.
Limits are needed -- hard numerical limits -- and they need to be enforced.
32
Correct; Merkel let in over 1m ; surely the us can do better
@Kris, yes and it is destroying the entire European experiment. Countries are restoring border check points and the hard right is gaining popularity across the continent. Merkel hangs on to power by a thread. Surely a template of exactly what not to do in the US.
Wow. I was against the family separation policy, and still believe that it is tantamount to child abuse. But this story helped me better understand why it would be government policy. If parents with young children are being given preferential treatment, why wouldn't parents bring their young kids? It's a perverse incentive, though the flip side of separating kids is probably even more perverse.
This family were not refugees or asylum seekers, they were willing to use their child to their strategic advantage, and now thanks to the Trump policy they've been deterred.
49
This summer my family travelled to see our ancestral sites in Norway and Sweden. My grandparents immigrated to the U.S. in the 1890s. I now realize that overpopulation, famine, and lack of employment (economics) are the main factors that force people to migrate. My ancestors faced these conditions over a hundred years ago when times were bad in their home countries.
5
@Phyllis Mazik
Ancestors were then.
This is now.
18
Most Americans welcome legal immigrants, but not illegals. US laws allow foreigners (aliens) to seek entry and citizenship. Those who do not follow these laws are in this country illegally (i.e., illegal aliens) and should be detained and deported, as is policy in other countries, too.
We cannot support our own citizens: the poor, the ill, elderly, disabled, veterans, et al. It is thus utterly impossible for US taxpayers to support the millions of foreigners who would like to come here.
Responsibility for this sad state of affairs lies with the parents, who choose to take the children on long and dangerous journeys in hopes of entering the US without seeking lawful entry. Worse yet, some parents send their children unaccompanied, or with parental pretenders.
The cruelty lies not in detaining and deporting illegal aliens, or separating children from parents who have broken our laws. What is cruel, unethical and probably illegal is encouraging parents to bring their children on the dangerous trek to US borders and teaching parents how to game the system to enter the US by falsely claiming asylum, persecution, abuse, etc.
Abolishing ICE makes sense only to advocates of open borders, a policy no nation will ever accept.
If open borders is made a plank of the Democratic Party we are doomed to lose the midterm and 2020 elections.
49
Americans are dreamers, too. And we hope for a day when we don’t have to pay for illegals. According to FAIR, Americans pay more than 115 billion a year in the costs of illegal immigration.
49
"driven mainly in recent years by poverty, residents say; most families have a close relative living in the States."
So much for the asylum argument.
42
I really hope Democrats are paying attention to the sentiments expressed here. Pandering to illegal migrants may not be the best play to winning in November. Trump is right on this issue.
69
We should realize that the American workforce is built like a pyramid. The base of which consists of unskilled workers, like the Pulexs. If illegal, they command lower pay, leaving Americans with more money to spend on 'thneeds'. To do away completely with illegal immigration may not make economic sense for us, even if the audacity of folks walking into your house leaves one gasping at the breach of etiquette.
We need to solve this problem and address a quota of unskilled workers, not just fruit pickers and butchers, but maids, gardeners etc. If they could go to and fro to their home country easily with no fear of deportation, then they will be happy, and so will we.
5
I’m so tired of affluent Americans demanding unlimited immigration or migrant workers so they can pay less for home healthcare aides, landscapers, housekeepers, and every other service. It hurts working class Americans, including legal immigrants. This is why people hold their noses and vote for Trump.
The US is a post-industrial primarily service sector economy. Farms use GPS guided tractors. Steel mills are computerized and operate with a hundred workers not thousands. We don’t need more unskilled workers, we have plenty. What we actually need to do is educate people better - over the entire course of their working life.
What this pyramid you propose does is funnel wealth to the top, while giving workers no leverage to demand better wages and working conditions. Meat processors use to be unionized, pay decent wages, and offer safer working conditions. No longer. The conditions nowadays are so deplorable even the undocumented don’t last long.
37
Why can all other countries control their immigration and the U.S. can not? Try entering Mexico illegally, or Austria, or France, or England, or even Canada. All countries have immigration laws. America has been in a housing crisis for fifteen years, it has a health care crisis, school classes are the largest in the world (with very little support and no evidence this will change). Many of the U.S. states have a homeless problem, and a problem with providing homes, support and rehabilitation for disabled veterans. The U.S. is currently also facing a major addiction problem with very few resources in place to help addicts to break the cycle. All these problems should be addressed before throwing more into the mix. You do not adopt children when you can not provide for your own.
56
@Barbara - Try entering even Canada illegally? Boy are you out of touch.
"Canada will soon have more illegal border crossers than Syrian Refugees", May 1, 2018.
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/de-facto-amnesty-a-look-at-the-daun...
3
@S Sm....But they will send you back.
1
@S Sm, Numbering 20,000 entrants in two years, wow, what an invasion. That's the amount we in the US take in on a good week or two. In May, our border authorities found nearly 6,000 unaccompanied youth alone. Those are the ones that we know of.
Basically what Canada is seeing is crumbles.
in greater scheme of things, now we need why we want China and India be prosperous, imagine the chaos that will bring if those 2 countries are having regime change like in Middle East...
1
it is sad. this family, like most other central american immigrants, fleeing poverty and crime, cannot win asylum.
of course, the reason honduras, el salvador and guatemala are so dangerous, and poor, is due, mostly, to US policy in the region from the late 70s- to early 90s, which uniformly supported repressive regimes. those policies were unfair ... and the chickens come home to roost ...
2
These nations are representative democracies. Their civil wars ended three decades ago. There are millions of American citizens originally from Central America. We already absorbed people displaced because of the Cold War conflicts. America is not responsible for their current problems because it intervened decades ago. We’re not responsible for their current corruption and poor governance.
South Korea and Taiwan had repressive US supported regimes for many decades after war devastated them. They both managed to develop strong economies and vibrant democracies. The Philippines were an American colony for fifty years. But they’re not blaming us for their current problems. Because they can’t.
22
I know these stories will appear throughout the administration of this POTUS.
And generally, they are to make America look bad.
But let's get one thing straight. This family were not trying to "migrate". Congress has passed laws on how to migrate - legally.
With help of these smugglers, this family was gate crashing - bypassing our lawful ssystem.
And as the story tells us these folks appear well informed on how we do not enforce these laws. That is adults escape prosecution if accompanied by a minor.
It's simply hopeless when our own law abiding citizens would rarely want to game our own system.
The POTUS famously has said, "please come here but legally."
This family is an example of flouting our rules and laws for their own sake.
No wonder wehave a backlog of many years.
42
So it would appear that Trump’s ‘detention’ strategy was somewhat effective as a deterrent.
74
@Shenoa- And Trump had the fortitude to pull out of the new UN Global Migration Compact.for Migration, which would have been at odds with US sovereignty.
15
@Shenoa effective for this family! Will their negative experience be enough to discourage others from their village? Thousands of others who believe the threat is greater in their current setting will continue to migrate north!
1
@Shenoa
... at the cost of thousands of children's mental health.
I'd say that's too high of a cost,
to correct a "threat" that never existed.
1
There are a plethora of reasons that range from crop failures due to drought, to countries turning into failed states, that are fueling migrations from bad economic or personal safety situations. Ultimately no matter how draconian measures become, large numbers of people are going to vote with their feet and see if they can better their lives by trying tomigrate to more developed and safer countries. The US and other first world countries can spend more and more to deter them or we can try to scrape whatever monies that first world countries can siphon off, and try spending some of it to help alleviate the conditions that are making them show up on our doorstep.
13
@Kevin
America has spent billions and billions over the years to fight poverty and hunger all over the world in foreign countries, but to no success. Wars and stealing of monies from the upper-echelon government people and leaders have failed to elevate the people of these countries to better food, housing and better education.
I don;t know what the solution is to these peoples' plight, but throwing money at their problems never seems to have worked from the USA!
29
@Kevin: remember the “Alliance for Progress” policy program of the Kennedy era? Didn’t work because the core problems were not addressed by the “best and brightest”. We are now living the aftermath of those well-intentioned, but not well thought out social engineering schemes.
To change the the paradigm of free migration based on purely economic reasons, a change in thinking is necessary: make those countries responsible for their own citizens. Here is where the US should pressure those well-entrenched local oligarchies.
12
Are you unaware that there are people who live in the United States who are in dire straits ? Our government should take whatever money it can "siphon off" and use it to hep American citizens .
I realize that that's a novel idea, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a good one.
14
At least they were frank about why they were illegally coming to the USA - economic!
76
Dear Rev. Bates, there is plenty of compassion left in the heart of us, all children of immigrants. Perhaps more so than in other parts of the world. What we children of immigrants are worried about is the blatant disregard for our immigration laws, and the tax burden of so many people on an already overtaxed middle class.
The family in the article have a “tiendita”, look healthy and well dressed. They were also able to pay $5000 for a coyote to bring them across. Why didn’t they go to the US embassy and apply for an immigration visa, or request refugee status? And if that had failed why didn’t go the Mexico?
But before passing judgment about the generosity of Americans, meet me halfway. If you take a family of so-called migrants, I’ll take one, too.
92
From the Comment on this article it is easy to see that the Trump Administration and the Trumpitinas that support him have really taken compassion out of the hearts of so many Americans. What a shameful attitude for a country of immigrants to have come to!
11
@Rev. Henry Bates-
Gee Henry how many of the 90 million Americans worth less than $2,000 per capita live in Palm Springs? To paraphrase John 8.7: Let he who is without compassion cast the first stone.
40
@rev. Henry Bates What specifically is so shameful? The attitudes endorsing acts illegal to our country or the endorsement of our established laws? And, what of the assumption that many are "Trumpitinas"? The way you frame it sounds condescending and accusatory of all that Trump embraces.
Not all here support Trump. There are policies that in the multitude of counsel he has endorsed. Just as, I assume, the title Rev. must stand for something biblically related, surely you must stand behind your beliefs and experiences whether or not another faith agrees in the name of compassion?
Further, your sense of compassion is directed for the migrants. Not for those already legally here. There is no crime in that. After all, we are all of the human race but that altogether would be another topic. Veering back on course, we were built up on immigration but, just as our ideas changed from infancy into adulthood, our country developed it's independent system of laws as time passed.
All to say, Rev. you are wagging your finger that is heavy with your ideas of fairness at people who may in turn wag their fingers at you for your beliefs.
31
@sguknw @rev. Henry Bates
Interesting note on what the good book says here, too:
Romans 13
Submission to Governing Authorities
1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
I don't see a way around this.
9
I wonder if those 50 people missing from this town would have been better off spending their $5000 smuggling fees on making their own town a better place. How is a place ever going to succeed when the most motivated people leave to go to America?
93
Most white people in the United States are descended from immigrants who chose to invest in a treacherous journey to an uncertain fate, rather than remain and improve their own poverty-stricken countries. They did so "legally" only in the sense that their arrival came at a time of more or less "open borders." That is not an option for future Americans like this family from Guatemala. The opportunity to come legally is virtually non-existent. Nativists of earlier times claimed immigrants would dilute American culture. Instead those coming from poverty and famine enriched it. Today's immigrants, when we are wise enough to welcome them, will do the same.
13
You have to love reasoning that discounts legal immigration with the theory that people only obeyed the law at the time because they obeyed the law at the time.
Obeying the law is apparently such an extraordinary concept that we should assume only “white people”, back in the day”, could accomplish that Herculean goal.
As someone who hasn’t knowingly violated the law in over 60 years - I must be superhuman, but it doesn’t really seem that hard.
23
Very true - Henry James, in his travel essays about the US east coast, writes about his fears of Anglo Saxon culture being diluted. He was specifically writing about NY's Lower East side.
1
It looks like the system is working. This family tried to enter the country illegally. They are now back home and claim they will not try again. Unless you support open borders how is this a bad thing?
140
@Todd
Could not agree more--and I consider myself a Democrat.
These people are breaking the law. Finally, we have an administration that is upholding our laws.
Plus, the word is getting out: you will be arrested and put in jail and then deported.
68
There are millions of actual American citizens struggling to escape violent areas in this country, but we're supposed to feel sympathy for these blatant criminals? I think it's time I cancel my subscription to the failing NYT.
119
I hope this family will find a decent place to which to immigrate. I don't blame them for not wanting to come back to this country, ever again. There's a good reason why tourism is down, and why Americans are being shunned by most of the western world. Believe me, if I could go live in Canada, as a retiree, I would do it as fast as I could. I really would rather not live here anymore, if I can help it. I am so uncomfortable in the U.S. It doesn't feel like my country, anymore. But, you have to have a job in order to be welcomed to Canada, in spite of the reciprocity. At 70, I'm just too old for that. I feel so sorry for this family. I wish we would have welcomed them. I think they would have been good Americans.
14
@ChesBay The point isn't whether they would have been good Americans. The point is they came illegally cutting the line in front of millions of people trying to become good Americans legally. That has to be discouraged.
75
And, if we had welcomed them, I wouldn't feel so uncomfortable in my own country, and want to leave.
14
@ChesBay
Canada wants educated immigrants who could contribute to its economy and who would be able to easily assimilate. Trump would like our country to adopt Canada’s merit based immigration system.
Reuters has a 3/20/17 article titled “Exclusive: Almost half of Canadians want illegal border crossers deported - Reuters poll”.
I suspect Canada is not the ideal place you imagine. No country could afford to be.
59
I would like to see a companion piece to this story that provides a breakdown of the cost to the US taxpayer. Detention facility costs, transportation, shelter and social worker costs for the child, and air transport to country of origin. It would be interesting and informative, possibly illustrate the more full impact of illegal migration to the host country.
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@S Sm
It would probably be cheaper to build a wall.
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"Mr. Pulex was forced to sell the family house to pay debts, including the $5,000 smuggling fee"
Oh, Please!! Who forced Mr. Pulex to pay a $5,000 smuggling fee, except Mr. Pulex? In Guatemala a person who can scrape up $5,000 in US currency is not a poor person. Even in the United States there are I believe 90 million people whose net worth is $2,000 or less.
The New York Times could do the United States a favor by giving ICE the names and addresses of the Mrs. Pulex's relatives in the United States. If these people got here by pulling the same scam as the Pulex's tried to pull or now reside in the United States without legal permission, they should be deported as well, in my opinion.
Do the employees of the New York Time realize there are poor hopeless people in the United States now, US Citizens, that no body helps and whose lives are made worse by increased immigration?
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sguknw--If we taxed the filthy rich fairly, and multi-national corporations, we could afford to do ALL the things that are needed in this country, both for our citizens, and for our very much needed immigrants. That can certainly happen IF we vote out as many Republicans as possible, in November. Greedy, regressive Republicans are the main reason for most of our foreign and domestic problems.
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@ChesBay An idealist at heart! If we voted out all of the Republicans, where would we stand as a democratic society? My statement is neither a confirmation or denial of your theory - just a curiosity sparked by your previous remark that you would readily welcome what you think good citizens would be. What were they by the way? Republicans or Democrats? Did it matter in reference to your opinion of your fellow Americans here?
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@ChesBay--
I did not vote for Trump. Putin's Best Friend for Life is the most loathsome American public figure since Roger B. Taney. But the New York Times and for that matter the Democratic Party is making a huge mistake by excessive sympathy for the "poor" immigrants without excessive sympathy for poor US citizens. All this does is manufacture votes for Trump.
That country needs more immigrants, especially those with little respect for the law is absurd. I could use worse language here but I won't.
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Simply illustrates why the citizens of this country are fed up with illegal immigrants. These people use their children to circumvent our laws. This is admirable?! During Obama’s tenure people paid smugglers thousands to bring (and often abuse and rape) their children to the U.S. border. Then the Obama administration paid to bus/fly the children to relatives (often illegal) at taxpayer expense! For heavens sake, the taxpayers are not stupid. Being taken for a sucker has helped to elect Trump.
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This woman thought she could just march into the US, along with her daughter? Appalling that she assumes she has that right, and obviously does not give a hoot whether it is right or not. The impression I have is that non of the illegal migrants crossing into the US care at all whether it is unlawful, society owes it to them the right to reside in the USA. And $5000? I almost gagged, a lot of dough to some people even north of the Mexican border. Everyone is so critical of President Trump's policy of separating children from the Illegal migrant parents, but what solution do you propose?
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This entire story is a fiasco. These people are economic migrants and should be deported immediately.
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@Ed … thanks Ed … it is good when heartless people reveal themselves … you are probably against a myriad of things that help poor people, huh?
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@Ed @rev. Henry Bates...Nope, Ed here is just following the laws. But, your entanglement between your emotional state and what the law reports as criminal behavior is easily forgiven as articles such as this target those who are for open boarders without saying it out too loud.
It's simple. You are for open boarders and Ed doesn't appear to be. Thus, you may forever be in an atongonistic struggle with those who don't agree with you Rev. Unless someone changes their belief.
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I am with you, Ed.
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Wow. As a +10yr NYT reader I now only sadly expect heavily spun/biased stories supporting their narrative (kinda like the opposite of Fox). Honestly surprised that the Editors left this through as is...! Now if only we could only work together to find a solution to migration due to war, violence, economy, like the idea of helping at the source but understand the fraught nature of that...
"frank about their motivations for heading north: They thought they might have a chance of making more money, getting a better education..."
and..."she heard other migrants talk about how, once they were deported, they would try to cross into the United States again, some even with their children. She shuddered at the thought. “No longer, no longer,” she said, shaking her head. “It was my first and last time.”
and..."expectation that they would be immediately picked up by border guards and put into deportation proceedings. But based on the experiences of others, she had assumed that they would be quickly released to await their day in court, which could take years considering the long backlogs"
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Wait a minute.
Did she or did she not immediately claim asylum as soon as she was caught?
Why can't we have all the details?
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If you show up at a POE you can claim asylum. If you cross illegally you can still claim asylum but you've also committed a crime. Like we used to say in my old neighborhood: You're busted!
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She admittedly has no basis to claim asylum. They were not being persecuted; they hoped for better opportunities.
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An expensive lesson for them.
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This woman obviously was an economic migrant , hoping to stay because others have gamed the system and gotten away with it by claiming fear of violence . Bringing children has become the new norm for them . Perhaps she can set up a go fund page to pay off the coyote and for her whole family to get counseling since they seem to have a lot of expectations out of the American government ; when Trump has made it very clear they're very unwelcome in this country . Five thousand dollars to pay a coyote and go thru a nightmarish journey with her child is just simply too unrealistic to comprehend.
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I found notable that drought and disease contributes to the conditions in the places these people are leaving. I am glad they had not been subject to violence in Guatemala and I hope they never will be.
Perhaps we should think about climate change which is often a factor in migration.
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I read the comments on "gaming the system" and it occurs to me that it's likely people who have zero experience with "the system".
Why is anyone so comfortable with the idea that a system takes years for any resolution? Why is the idea of human lives in limbo for years acceptable because we've created a system where this is a feature and not a fault? I know what I think of people who game a good system that works, but I don't think the same of those who "game" a bad system that doesn't. It's choosing to play a game you know is rigged against you.
There is a trade-off that was made by those who are standing in line and those who aren't. The advantage of legal access vs. the advantage of time and opportunities. But both are subject to the same system, and it's foolish to think that building mistreatment into one part won't impact the whole.
Cruelty is an effective deterrent. I know what I think of cruel people.
An effective system can be a deterrent and a way to change a problem into an opportunity.
If you've rigged the game, please hold your indignation at those who don't play it by your rules.
If "the system" is broken, do you give up? Would you?
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@gia It's not clear on what authority or experience you stand when you assume the people who speak about "gaming the system " as someone who likely has no experience with the system. Your assumption is unsound. Speculation. I didn't read that anyone was "so comfortable " with our system either. More speculation.
Whether our judicial system works in the favor of the migrants is neither here nor there when you have someone who is trying to illegally gain entry, WITH A CHILD, who intends to be captured with no consequences aside for being issued a court date on a matter that could take years to resolve. This family planned out this scheme (call it as it is) with the intention of risking their children with the hope of receiving a slap on the wrist. Mind, while waiting for their hearing, they would be able to work off the books, receive free education, free meals at school, etc...You might call that a system that works in their favor.
Hey, I'm all for free speech and thought, just know that at the risk of being called cruel or inexperienced by citizens as yourself, we're all reaching a little deeper into our pockets for the ones who slip through the cracks.
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@Gia
We award lawful permanent resident status (green cards) to large numbers of Salvadorans, Guatemalans, and Hondurans. A 12/7/17 PEW Research Center page titled "RISE IN U.S. IMMIGRANTS FROM EL SALVADOR, GUATEMALA AND HONDURAS OUTPACES GROWTH FROM ELSEWHERE: 1. Recent trends in Northern Triangle immigration” said the following:
"In 2015, El Salvador ranked ninth among countries for the number of green cards issued to people born there, and has ranked in the top 14 since 2006.
Guatemala ranked 22nd in 2015, and has been in the top 28 since 2006.
Honduras ranked 28th in 2015 and has been in the top 40 since 2006.
More than 37,000 immigrants from the three Northern Triangle nations were granted green cards, giving them lawful permanent resident status, in the first three quarters of the 2017 fiscal year (Oct. 1, 2016, through June 30).”
Gia, it does not sound to me like the immigration system is broken for Salvadorans, Guatemalans, and Hondurans. In comparison to people from other countries, a large number of them have been receiving green cards.
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A shattered scheme is more like it.
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If you can't make ends meet, stop at one child, don't have two.
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@steph
They're Catholic in a Catholic country where contraceptives are not readily available, frowned on, and are expensive. Pretty hard to limit the number of children under these circumstances.
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Actually the Catholic stance is that sex is for procreation not recreation. So not having an additional child is as simple as deciding not to do it.
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This is one of the few pro-Trump immigration policy articles I have read. This family used the children as cover to allow them to be released into the US by immigration authorities. Trump's zero tolerance policy did, in the case described, exactly what it was intended to do: immediately deport the illegal entrant and provide a deterrent to other people from illegally entering the US with kids in tow.
As harsh and damaging as separation policies may be, parents (or other adults) are the ones responsible for subjecting the kids to this. The sympathetic supporters of the illegal immigrants and the open borders crowd are responsible for making it attractive to exploit the kids to get into the US.
Trump would be proud of this acknowledgement that his policy actually was effective.
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illustrates the narrative. Sorry for their bad experience but they made the choice to enter the,nation fraudulently.
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The Administration seems very cautious about using "expedited removal," a process already in existence, to immediately deport without a hearing anyone caught crossing the border or certain aliens already in this country illegally. This process makes far more sense than "catch and release" and the related detention issues. Aliens should not be allowed to game the system and enter this country illegally hoping years will go by before their deportation hearings. A permanent end to DACA and the commencement of expedited removal as the sole means of processing illegal aliens will do more to eliminate or sharply reduce illegal immigration than any wall can do.
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Don’t complain when tomatoes go for $10 a pound, you can’t find someone to clean your apartment/house for $30 for 3 hours off the books, a nanny for your precious children for $300 a week and on and on and on. After all, “they” are animals, “not our children,” and so many other absolutely and incredibly dehumanizing insults placing these individuals beneath any category deserving of empathy or mercy.
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@Lynn in DC
Elia is apparently unaware economists have estimated the percentage labor contributes to the price of most produce is 5%. A $4 head of lettuce that goes up in price slightly to ~$5 as a result of farmers making the shift to automation or doubling the pay to entice legal workers would be offset in the long run by lower costs to society to maintain a safety net and benefits for illegal aliens. We're being told in the not too distant future workers will be phased out or only employed part time due to automation, eventual austerity cutbacks due to unsustainable deficits, dollar to SDR transitioning, etc.
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@Lynn in DC, they aren't using expedited removal because they want to charge them with illegal entry, which requires a hearing. Only people traveling with children get catch and release treatment (they may also have to pass the credible fear test though there are separate protections for children too). Basically these people are gaming our laws that protect children to try to game the system and are getting away with it.
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The point of this article is what? I am not a DJT cultist, but I have very little sympathy here. "Did not expect to be imprisoned." So I guess we should meet everyone's expectations now, especially when they are breaking the law. When do they plan on paving my neighborhood streets in gold?
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This article is all emotional and blatantly evaded the intentional hustling of the system. Are we supposed to ignore that these deportation cases are severely backlogged? Why not include the financial cost on the American taxpayer? And, the intentional disregard for American laws? Apply for asylum and get in line or should we follow their example of gaming the system as well? Let's remember, quick deportation was something Obama did, too.
One thing that does weigh heavily on my mind is the separation of children. It is traumatic. However, what strikes me as backward is the lack of interest the NYTimes has regarding the wrongful removal of children by The Administration For Children's Services in NY and other children's agencies in the US. Do something for the traumatized parents trying to regain custody and their vulnerable child(ren). People forget that non-citizens don't have the rights American citizens do. Why not focus on American families that also try to have a better life for themselves?
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@NY: clearly putting children in detention WORKED -- where other methods FAILED!
Thanks to the lefty media and massive lefty whinging...we no longer have this powerful, effective tool to stop illegal immigration!
“We planned to break the law, we planned to use our children to make it easier for us to stay once we broke the law, and we, and ‘open boarders’ folks, should be outraged that the American authorities enforced the laws.”
Did I get it right?
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Except for "boarders"
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Sorry for the pun. In quotes.
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It's hard to have sympathy for people who knowingly break the law. I'd rather not pay Uncle Sam this year? Will he let me off the hook just due to a sob story? Don't think so. Will Canada let these people in, progressive Canada? No.They.Will.Not. The violin story is getting really old NY Times. Most of America wants this stuff stopped.
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200 years ago, the current wealth, health, lifespan, education, personal freedom and autonomy, and possessions of this poor family would have been the province of nobles - or unattainable.
Work on making your place better. It's truly possible. What could this family have done if the $5,000 they borrowed were invested in themselves locally?
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@Djt: 200 years ago, "nobles" owned huge tracts of land and extracted enormous wealth from...Guatemala.
"During the Spanish colonial period, the economy was based on exploitation, both of land and of Native American labor. The first Spanish settlers organized the encomienda system by which Spaniards were given title to American land and ownership of the villages on that land. In return for promises to convert the Native Americans to Christianity, the Spanish were allowed to use the land and labor any way they saw fit.
This system quickly turned into something very close to outright slavery: Native Americans were paid exceedingly low wages—if anything at all—to perform backbreaking labor on plantations and in mines. The Spanish believed that their God-given duty was to convert the Native Americans, and that the European notion of eternal salvation was a reward great enough to justify any possible mistreatment in this life. The result was a race for control of people more than of land, and not too surprisingly, abuses were so widespread as to become the norm."
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I think this article may have had exactly the opposite of its intended effect - your editorial team is so out of touch. While I am sympathetic to the poverty and plight of the Pulex family in Guatemala, their journey and experience in US detention was entirely self-inflicted and they knew exactly what they were doing in trying to game the old "catch and release" system. Let's hope the word spreads now among their friends that the rules have changed. If they want to come to the US, they would be more than welcome to apply, but only if they get in line behind everyone else.
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@KB: The United States is largely responsible for conditions in Guatemala. The United Fruit Company, for example, didn't "get in line". It charged in, with the help of the US military, to take whatever it could from Guatemala without contributing anything at all to the welfare of the country and its people. The enormous wealth which we are fortunate to be able to spread around in our own country comes largely from the exploitation of countries like Guatemala.
The same forces, global corporations, that wreaked havoc in much of latin America are now decimating the middle class here. To me, it makes more sense to seek a common bond with people like the Pulexes. If we help them, we help ourselves.
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@KB I'm inclined to agree with you. The New York Times just made a compelling argument in favor of Trump's Zero tolerance policy.
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@KB
This should have been done 30 years ago. No other G-20 country tolerates this kind of lawlessness.
What took so long, NYTimes?
Now, the USA is facing a future financial disaster, when the unlawful make claims against Social Security, aided by USA trial lawyers, who will demand SocSec scour its records.
Epic level of national insanity. The USA is the laughingstock of the world.
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This article is proof that illegal immigrants are deliberately gaming the system by crossing with kids and then relying on the catch and release policy to let them live in the US indefinitely. You can disagree with what Trump is doing but I applaud him for at least doing something about the problem which is clearly having a deterrent effect on economic migrants. These people aren't dumb, they knew that asylum and deportation cases took a long time and counted on it to enable their illegal residence in the country, and I'm glad they've been promptly removed back to their own country.
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@KM
NYT, this unlawfulness is costing honest legal working taxpayers tens of billions of dollars, while the USA has the worst taxpayer debt in 75 years, as Asia is rising.
What about their "dreams?" When are they going to start to matter to y'all? Why should they care about rule of law?
This November, expect a reckoning. Bet the farm on that.
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