Brilliant and devilish :-)
I just discovered this blog a few weeks ago and am really enjoying it. I'm reading it 6 weeks behind because I print out the puzzles from The Oregonian, my local daily newspaper. Luckily the puzzles include the original date of publication so I can search for the blog. Thursdays are my favorites. This puzzle stumped me for quite a while. I sort of caught on with "deforest" and "forensics." I had the hardest time with the NE corner because "Longoria" fit in the space that ultimately became "Evagoria."
How are you supposed to make this work on the Kindle app? I figured out the trick answers, but no way to stuff them into a square. Even revealing the square doesn't help.
1
Absolutely hated this puzzle. Besides the inconsistent theming (forensiccist?) I simply don't understand what "hands down" has to do with the clues. Yes, I get that the answers in the middle drop down but what does "hands" have to do with it?
Almost had a streak buster trying rebuses until I realized the rebuses were repeated in the down answers and then an easy fix.
I did like hella, a throwback to my 90s northern california high school days.
2
Horrible puzzle. Not fun or entertaining, just frustrating.
4
Terrible
4
Sorry, but I have to give this puzzle a big Bronx Cheer. Some of these clues were ridiculous. When exactly was the last time that “spang” was as used in print, much less in conversation? I wasn’t aware that “El Cheapos” was even common slang. And Afro-Asian is getting pretty obscure, given that most Caribbeans are Afro-European or Afro-Native American. And that’s even without getting to the weird word rotations.
6
Yeah, nope.
9
It can't be a rebus, Matt, because the Downs won't work that way. If you made 38A a rebus ENV[IRON]S, then 29D would be CH[IRON]RON. The trick is to see that the 'missing' letters are there if you 'drop DOWN' for them.
Wicked trick? Yes.
Understood, but I thought that was part of the theme. IRON, etc. (going down) but iron also going across. My fault. I should have tried playing with them more to see what would be accepted.
It seems EASY NOW, but it wasn't at the time. I guess sometimes you just can't see DEFOREST for de TREAS.
Like LizB, I thought of Erlenmeyer first, but knew DEWAR as well. A small hitch at LAY RUBBER, where "burn" RUBBER is more familiar to me.
Pleased with finding CHIRON in the grid, having enjoyably analyzed Updike's Centaur at a critical time in my education. Bonus is finding the recent article headlined:
New Bugatti CHIRON Divo Will Be Faster And Handle Better In Ways No One Will Ever Use
And thanks for reminding me, as the youngest in the family, of the HANDS-me-DOWN that came my way. Felt special to have things custom-tailored to fit at the time, and even moreso now, remembering Mom's sewing by hand. [I can GO A LONG way on a few memories.]
As a pure solve. Joe DiPie, this turned out a HELLA EPIC. HEAR HEAR!!
3
Totally cheated out of a four month streak. The app refused to give credit because I entered the four theme words as rebuses. I thought with previous puzzles there was some leeway with these type of across/down answers. I guess not. Really need to find a way to make this work since I successfully completed each clue.
1
It can't be a rebus, Matt, because the Downs won't work that way. If you made 38A a rebus ENV[IRON]S, then 29D would be CH[IRON]RON. The trick is to see that the 'missing' letters are there if you 'drop DOWN' for them.
Wicked trick? Yes.
2
Saw TREASURE fairly early on, and so ended my thoughts of a rebus. Then had three of the themes, LONG, IRON and the reveal, but even though I saw how DEFOREST would fit (as I had FORENSICS), it bothered me that the FORE didn’t end the down word. All the other down part of the themes finished with either the edge of the puzzle or a black square. And since I didn’t know SHUL or SCRUB or HELLA, I bombed that NW corner; seemed inconsistent with the rest.
2
I picked up on the gimmick pretty quickly — I understood that it was some type of rebus variant with the missing letters from the across answers dipping into the down answers. I figured that out from Eva LONGoria and TreaSUREmap.
But, I have no idea what the “hand” means in HANDSDOWN related to the four words that “dipped down” into the down answers. And, 38A was generic enough that I couldn’t see envIRONs.
I understand from the constructer notes that each one of the down “rebuses” can make a phrase with “hands.” But, they don’t seem like common phrases, and they don’t help with solving the puzzle, so I fail to see the point. Overall, this was a frustrating and unsatisfactory solve for me.
9
Got the whole thing , but broke my streak at AQI - yikes did not know that , SPANG, AZOV - but found the theme clever anyway .
what a load of a puzzle this is. there's interesting and then there's just tryhard, wanna guess which one I class this as?
5
Shouldn't it be "los cheapos"?
10
This Thursday puzzle tied my HANDS completely. Thought we had a rebus going, but no. This was something far more nefarious than a rebus... a theme so subtle it didn’t seem to exist in this realm. Thanks to Deb for her column — I finished but could not have without her.
One (of many) quarrel: what is HELLA anyway? Yeah, it’s slang, but HELLuvA is all I’ve heard.
3
Carol,
Re: HELLA
The young folks use a UV filter.
13
Craig Hella Johnson -- the director of the choral group Conspirare here in Austin. :)
2
"He bought a Chevy El Camino. Now the family owns two El Caminos."
"El Cheapo" is a facetious brand name for cheap cigars. It was featured regularly in the Pogo cartoon strips.
2
We are in Shelter Cove, CA, on the "Lost Coast." It's a schlep but gorgeous. Most of the drive is on CA-1, which is to US-101 as US-101 is to I-5, R&E. Tremendously fun drive for this driver and Elaine was pretty good. I think she kept her eyes closed.
Then you take a REALLY twisty road over the King Range to the coast. Elaine drove that stretch. It was so worth the schlep. We walked on the local black sand beach and are about to hit the tide pools.
There's very little else in town besides hiking and whale watching from our hotel balcony. There's a General Store/Hair Salon/Storage Lockers/Real Estate office. And a Venezuelan restaurant. Guess where we'll be having dinner.
Suejean, if this post survives, we had dinner at the wonderful Cafe Beaujolais in Mendocino last night. We had seared foie gras with a wonderful local bunch-selected (beerenauslese style) late-harvest gewurztraminer. I thought of you but toasted Mac Knight because he'd have loved the CA-1 drive coming up. The rest of the meal and wines were exemplary too.
I suspect Shelter Cove Venezuelan will find Cafe Beaujolais a hard act to follow.
4
Sounds wonderful, Martin.
Enjoy!
NOTA bene:
CHIRON in the TV sense is CHYRON.
(Then there's CHARON.)
1
Keep traveling and eating enjoyably!
The best burrito I ever had was from a gas station somewhere along those coast highways!
10:16 pm EDT
This is my C-i-C and thus an original comment, no matter where or if it appears. I didn't even bother trying to reply to anything today, although I had some things to say; just too frustrating.
Thought rebus at first, with LONGORIA, but was disabused of that notion when I wound up with GO ALONGONG. Couldn't see anything, including symmetry, that linked the themers until the revealer made me turn my mind there. It's a good thing for me that it was clear that it was in fact the revealer and that it made me think in the right direction.
I remember SPANG from when I was a kid in Detroit, but I think it was mostly used by people from the south. Could be wrong, or maybe it's just generational.
Near double Natick until I dredged CHIRON, in a non-TV sense, from some deep memory hole. Didn't know the wrestler and didn't read Popeye, at least after the first time. Didn't know the Croce song, but the OVENS baked my Coho.
While like others I've heard BURN RUBBER, LAY RUBBER is more familiar to me.
I've seen HELLA before, but wasn't really sure what it meant.
Ste. Margaret used AZOV a lot.
Thanks for the link to the Pizza Lady article, and to Andrea for what she is doing. It is reminiscent of the earliest days of Gods Love We Deliver. (Also, the article had a link called "Report a Typo" which I used to report the ungrammatical "laying" where "lying" belonged. Couldn't help myself.)
Thanks, Joe, and congratulations, Will, on your milestone.
2
NOTA bene:
CHIRON in the TV sense is CHYRON.
(Then there's CHARON.)
(And I did wait and refresh and click my heels, so this should not have shown up first as a reply to Martin.)
2
Reply to Barry's CHIRON Reply to me:
Thank you. I stand corrected.
CHARON I know quite well.
This is a reply to my own C-i-C.
1) I think I've experienced a miracle. The "Report a Typo" link that I used to point out the grammatical error elicited a reply, from apparently an actual person, thanking me and saying that the text had been corrected! I haven't checked, but I'm actually reveling in the thought that I've gotten through to at least one person about the difference between "lie" and "lay." The constant misues makes we crrraaaaazzzzzyyyyy.
2) Apologies for my own typo, omitting the apostrophe in God's Love We Deliver.
2
I'm an attorney and this is the first I've heard the principal of estoppel used as ESTOP. It held me up for a bit because I thought there must be some trick. Google tells me ESTOP is a verb form of estoppel, but in 9 years I've never heard it used that way.
3
You read law books, we read dictionaries.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/estop
1
OK, so I've tried twice to add a reply to a thread, and twice I've received the email notification that it has been published, and both times the link in the email takes me to an abbreviated version of the thread that does not include my reply or even one or two earlier replies that are visible in the comments.
Could the IT GUY who is here for the interactive link maybe help the IT GUY who is working on the comments?
(I did open the comments last night with the thought that the comments would be tougher than the puzzle.)
2
A full hour long than Wednesday.... primarily due to difficulty in the NW. Theme revealed itself but SPANG was a complete unknown.
3
A while ago someone used the phrase (and I can't remember who) "Not in my wheelhouse". I didn't understand it then, and I do now. Sorry to be a poop but I gave up about 1/3 of the way through -- the combo of a new fill trick plus too many lookups was too much.
PS SPANG was easy. Must have been a generational thing.
3
TV show, pop music, cartoon characters, professional wrestling? Clearly, a low-brow kind of puzzle. Just like DiPietro to throw a SPANGer in the works. Clever, I suppose, but not very much fun.
2
I agree. Very low brow.
1
Hunh.
I just got around to investigating the difference between a SPANner and a monkey wrench, and confirmed that a monkey wrench is more versatile, so presumably it's more effective in gumming things up when 'thrown into the works'.
Someday, knowing this will prove useful.
CS, a theme with "Hands up!" is an arresting idea.
Very tough. SPANG was a new word for me. Got it by trying each different vowel. Not sure if my streak counts now. :-\
1
Very enjoyable and pretty tough puzzle. Guessed the (essence of the) theme from DEFOREST, but just solving all the clues was hard, and especially finishing the lower right corner was quite tricky. Did not know SPANG. Hope to see another Joe DiPietro puzzle before long!
3
I think the interactive part of the column is very cool, although today I didn't need it! Yay! Very cool puzzle. And very, very cool that she helps feed the hungry.
The Bee wasn't too bad, a little harder than yesterday, I thought. I'd like the puzzle better if I knew how many words were on the list.
4
Ok, again, on my journey to actually get, not quite good, but better in crosswords, once a month I get a puzzle that makes me just want to give it all up. This one was never going to happen. Had to just look up a bunch of the answers. I guess the theme in the end was somewhat clever, even after filling it in the "hands" thing didn't make sense to me. But also awful answers like El Cheapo, AQI, Spang, Afro-Asian, Envis, Mbas, Estop? Random things like Has a sip, On and On, Lay rubber. And I have even worked with Dewars. Over and hour before I give up, but other people seem to able to solve even these things in reasonable times. I did yesterdays puzzle in 35 mins with no help, but this one, oy. Maybe these puzzles are only for people that have done them for 30 years? But with some tweaks in clues and answers, this couldn't be so impossible... (Azov? Anyone just know Avoz without heading to the Atlas? Although heading to the atlas isn't that bad, I like doing that, but still.)
9
ENVIS was one of the themers as ENVIRONS where the RON descends from the I. Yes, I knew Sea of AZOV without consulting an atlas because of a misspent youth loving to look at maps in my World Book encyclopedia. ;-)
1
I used to live in Sunnyvale! People who live in Sunnyvale used to be made of tougher stuff! I had a 10 lb 5 oz. baby boy at El Camino Hospital in the middle of a July heat wave *when it didn't have air conditioning* !
I didn't know DEWARS (got it on crosses) and in fact I blotted my copybook by finishing with 3 wrong letters (I expect perfection from myself) but you don't see me whining! Sniveling, maybe, but not whining!
In case you work at Lab 126, that baby moved back to California and should be easy to spot; he's still really big (well, tall, anyway.)
EL CHEAPOS, EL CHEAPOS, EL CHEAPOS!
See?
I just did it!
When in doubt, I always go with EL CHEAPOS in case I have to toss the work clothes out due to a skunk encounter....
I replied to Martin in NY's comment on the "interactive" toy Wednesday night just before 11pm. I don't see that reply there today, so I don't know if it ever posted (I called it 'reply #1') or if it posted and then disappeared.
just sayin'.
I saw it!
Deb, you WATCHED Popeye as a child, but did you READ it?
I haven't done any Googling, but I suspect Sea Hag appeared primarily in the strip. She probably appeared in the cartoon, but to a lesser extent.
2
The Sea Hag first appeared in the Thimble Theater strip in 1929, but was never used in the Max Fleischer cartoons. The character first appeared on screen in the 1960 television cartoons produced by King Features--the same cartoons where Bluto became Brutus because King Features mistakenly thought Fleischer originated the Bluto character. (Bluto did appear in the strip, but only briefly.)
I initially wrote COHO for the four-letter salmon clue. NOVA, however, is not a salmon but rather smoked salmon, so I disagree with the cluing.
3
You're reading "variety" as being a specific species or subspecies. There are other meanings for the word.
Lox, gravlax and nova are three varieties of smoked salmon. They are differentiated by the way they are prepared; if Martin weren't on the way to the great Northwest, he probably could give you more detail.
However, let it suffice to say that the three types of smoked salmon I mentioned are different from one another; therefore they provide variety to the consumer.
Ditto on COHO.
1
Nova lox and gravlax tend to be cured rather than smoked.
Degree of difficulty: just right. 1D and 4D easy enough to fill in enough of the NW to see defOREst. The other three themers were similarly untroubling. I had the DOWN of 34D figured out before HANDS, but it was an easy slog to the finish. I did have to guess CENA and SEAHAG because the first two letters of CHIRON were not known to me. All three of those answers were buried somewhere in my subconscious, though, so I felt confident that looking up CHIRON would tell me I guessed right.
2
Oy vey. What a Thursday! I do the puzzle first before reading Wordplay, so didn't get the gimmick/theme/whatever until after I had labored for much longer than usual to finish. The next chore was trying to read the comments and their mixed-up replies. Now it's on to Anagrams Around Eve and the Spelling Bee. This retirement thing is a lot of work!
3
Is there any way to solve the Spelling Bee on a mobile device? I can’t find an app, nor can I get the NYT news app to find the puzzle page. (I also can’t get to wordplay other than via the crossword app.)
Hi, Sarah!
Good news: You CAN play Spelling Bee on your mobile device ... you'll just have to do this through a browser window, rather than the app. Go to https://www.nytimes.com/crosswords , scroll down past the Archives and Deb's guide, and you'll see the clickable icon for Spelling Bee.
Happy solving!
4
Hi Sam,
Spelling Bee works on my iPad Air2 in portrait mode only.
In landscape mode, and in either mode on the iPhone 6, I always get the "Oh No, we can't fit everything on your screen. Please rotate your device." message. I am using Safari with he crossword home page. All published Apple updates have been applied.
Yesterday Andrew from Ottawa gave me the info to get it on my iPhone. Using Google search, look for NYT spelling bee game.
It works!
Sorry, but drop-words instead of rebuses, when in other puzzles the rebus need only fit one way, is a bridge too far. My streak is ended. I hated this puzzle.
14
Rebuses usually have to work both ways, no?
7
I agree !
3
Again this was another weirdo lets-make-answers-go-around-corners Thursday puzzle that I managed to solve somehow, someway. I saw the bend at SURE first, then LONG, which gave me the confidence for FORE, but at the end I was scouring for the 4th and never saw IRON.
And SPANG was completely new to me, too. When I got the dreaded "sorry but something is still not correct" message at the end, I thought for sure that's where my error was.
2
I actually finished a Thursday puzzle today without revealing any of the words so the only thing I'm here to complain about is spang. wtf is a spang
1
It's the past tense of sping. Sping, spang, spung.
3
Look it up. It's actually a word!
I also had to consider IRAQI vs IRANI. Didn't like AQI, but went with it because I knew a little about the geography of the area.
Posted now as Comment:
Deb and developers:
Interactive should be highlighted in some way, no? All four of them appear as plain text on both my iPhone and laptop.
[Also posted at 9:45 am EDT as reply to RiA, as I had started an actual reply to Rich, and then canceled. I thought I'd then had a clean start; alas.]
10:34 am EDT
2
Thanks. Highlighting might also help prevent
the dreaded accidental click!
This started out as a wild rebus chase for me. With ORE squished in at 1A and IRON at 38A I thought the theme was regarding the Mesabi IRON Range in Minnesota. Then I saw IRON going down under CHI and nixed the whole rebus idea. Also who in the world would create a puzzle around the Mesabi IRON Range?!!
I eventually got all of the theme answers and loved the reveal but dnf at the AQI/IRAQI cross.
No matter, nothing could squelch the fun or ruin the marvelousness of this puzzle.
Thank you, Joe DiPietro, today you win HANDS DOWN!
5
I was waiting to decide between IRANI and IRAQI and eventually decided on Air Quality Index (AQI).
3
It's spang on the stroke of ten.
3
Hey, Jude, (I love saying that!)
Thanks! That makes it much clearer and TIL a new word.
1
It might be a midwestern thing.
...or thang.
This was a very challenging puzzle. Liberally SPANGled with a show of HANDS running with a sleight, reckless abandon within the DOWN answers...I was wary the possibility of newsstand popping DOWN as one of the theme answers until I settled on the correct response for rack sites, OVENS...Hitting the wall, I had to put the paper DOWN for A BIT. That tactic worked like a charm when, after the break, all of the "Trouble (I had) In Mind." vanished. This link to the aforementioned, dedicated to the memory of JB, lets you HEAR some KAZOO music from a November, '66 improvisation by Brian Jones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6czMoquO0Ro
OPENLY GOing ALONG,
Bru
3
Congratulations are due all around.
9000 puzzles edited by Mr Short and a fun new toy, plus a wonderful story about Andrea Carla Michaels.
So much to enjoy in this column!
And today's Spelling Bee has all common words. Made it to Queen Bee with 34 words and 122 points.
A Happy Thursday indeed.
7
A non-CLOTBUR day indeed. I made it to GENIUS with 14 words including 1 pangram (and featuring many "familiar" words)/87 points; and had estimated 100-124 points for QUEEN BEE status and guesstimated 30-35 words total, but you beat me to it. Well done. I'll go look for the other 20 words after I have dealt with other business today.
Frankly, I consider the 4-letter, 1-pointer words a waste of time. Maybe there's a patent out on 5-letter BEEs. But it amounts to a waste of time if they are to be so downgraded score-wise.
1
NC, the four-letter words are only one point because they're easy to spot. I look at them as a warm-up. Plus I have to get them anyway if I'm going for Monarch Bee.
Excellent approach to Spelling Bee - I love the additional challenge to get to Genius with the fewest words possible. Would still appreciate knowing how many points to Genius and how many words and points total to Queen Bee.
Some have suggested that the downside to knowing is it inadvertently gives hints to the words left to find. I'd rather know than guess.
Finally, all those years spent devouring the original Popeye comic books (which are quite interesting, much more so than the cartoons, IMHO) paid off! Now if we could get a MARVEL-themed crossword, that'd be, well, super.
What can I do if I’ve solved the puzzle, but it’s not showing up as solved on the app? I mean, besides pull my hair out and gnash my teeth?
1
Hi David!
Sorry that happened. Send an email via the Crossword Feedback in your app and let them know.
1
Workarounds I've seen suggested include deleting and then reentering a letter, look for zeroes (0) instead of o's (O), proof carefully.
I often have to tab through answers, looking for "nonsense" words. Or accidental blank spaces.
And I'm curious: did you get an "almost there" message?
12:43 pm EDT
How do you know that there are no errors? I have never completed the puzzle correctly without it being acknowledged.
1
Oh, pooh. I finished with 3 wrong letters! The big deal Jim Croce hit was my undoing, not to mention a wrestling pro. Not only would I never bother with those things (not in 1973, not in 2018), I won't be able to remember them for future puzzles, so that is doubly annoying.
I caught on at once to the 'drop-down' feature, and though it took me a bit to recall the rest of the centaur's name, that came through. All four themers, then were entered correctly, but my stubborn adherence to COHO salmon (and failure to revisit the across clue at 26) combined to lead to my undoing.
If I'm going to go down in defeat, better at the hands of Joe DiPietro, I suppose. However, I shall be visiting xWord Info in order to deliver A Look (Severe with Eyebrow) ....and it's time to update the dartboard!
2
Among pro wrestlers, John Cena is pretty well-known. He’s an actor, too, though I haven’t seen any of his movies. I think they tend to be action movies, in which genre I have no interest. I think he aspires to be the next Dwayne “the Rock” Johnson.
1
Tricky Thursdays make me happy. I have first HAND experience doing the NYT xword puzzle and think that Joltin' Joe DiPietro deserves a big HAND for today's offering. I would have liked to see "upper" HAND in play as a contrast to the HANDs going DOWN.
4
Whatever the region, I see it as largely a rural expression.
Hmm, well, that was one of the few 'gimmes' for me. It's probably a film/TV line that has become a way of lessening tension and inserting a little humor in a tense situation.
I quite liked the puzzle because it was unique. If I were going to gripe, I would cite a Jim Croce hit from 1973, when I was living in Europe, not that I would have listening to that music anyway...
This clue was entered as a Reply to Skeptical. I wonder where my Comment in Chief is going to appear.
The gremlins are loose in the Comments coding again!
1
Smartest thing I did was to start the puzzle last night. Headed for bed leaving lots of white space to fill in today. This morning I returned to it and got a few new entries. But then I was stuck and decided to google the Croce song. That got me close enough to dredge up EVA LONGORIA's name and catch the downward turn after having first tried a rebus.
Next came TREASURE MAP (for which I originally had TEXAS MAP). EGO was my first stab at "self-starter". NW was the last to fill.
Just because you can?
This is not a good reason to do something! Not only were the themes too arcane and pointless but the solve was not enjoyable because I felt a mean spirit in the deviousness.
Too many detractions such as "big fellow" in the clue 30D when the answer is "Easy there" and applies to anyone, large small, male or female,
2
Easy there is what you say to a restive horse which often is a "big fellow".
2
What it is the counterpart to "He's A Jolly Good Fellow" when the celebrant prefers to be called a she? The answer: "She's A Jolly Good Fellow." My understanding is the 'fellow' is, technically, gender neutral.
That being said, I went down the same path hen trying to solve the clue.
Oops!
I went to write 'when'
But no 'w' was typed then
So 'when' became 'hen'
And 'hen' should be read as 'when'
Argh!!! So close. Finished the puzzle (it took a while, no rubber laid) and got the devilish trick but still no happy music . . . finally hit reveal and learned it was IRAQI and not IRANI (didn't know 61A). Sigh.
But am a genius elsewhere on the puzzle page so I expect my fragile ego will survive.
4
I could go ONANDON about how good this puzzle is. Wickedly and Delightfully difficult, and worth every minute. Got totally lost in the solving experience. Late in the week, this is what I look forward to. Grazie mille, Signore DiPietro!
7
Ugh. I found this puzzle to be too difficult to really enjoy.
I was able to complete the lower half with difficulty (and did manage to figure out the theme) but simply couldn't do the top half.
After 30 minutes I gave up, checked my answers, and had 28 wrong or incomplete squares.
2
My reaction to the theme and its implementation? HEAVY-HANDed.
Sometimes that round peg just doesn’t need to fit in that square hole.
3
Srsly, Deb—take another read of your sentence in the middle paragraph on Andrea. “Feeding pizza” to*whom*???
Fixed!
What Julia says is true, Paul. As a writer, it makes my job harder, but my other job is to help people who are not veteran solvers get the hang of things without spoiling too much. It's a very fine line to walk.
People have different ways of solving, and some want more help than others. Also, some solvers want just a leg up and to figure out the rest themselves. What this does is give solvers the help they need, and if they don't want it, they can just scroll on by. No one is forcing anyone to reveal anything here. I like the fact that readers have a choice.
2
I have no idea why the above comment appeared here. And I didn't do it.
1
Solved the puzzle without getting the trick, I think because "sure hand" and "iron hand" are not particularly common expressions. (Usually occur as "sure handed" and "iron handed".)
2
I'm not sure I understand what you've written. You say you *solved* the puzzle, so I have to assume you noticed that FORE, LONG, IRON and SURE are utilized twice in it. To me, that was "the trick." Whether or not the "trick" words plus HAND are common expressions is another matter (FWIW, I found all four perfectly fine).
2
HANDS DOWN the worst I've ever done on a Thursday puzzle. I did manage to work out a good chunk of the south half and got the reveal and TREASURE MAP, but never got another theme answer until I resorted to some heavy handed cheating.
Lots of unknowns or things that have faded from memory. I read a ton of Greek mythology (about 60 years ago) but the centaur had faded from my memory. The wrestler, EL CHEAPOS, SPANG - I could go on and on. Even the Croce song escaped me. Just couldn't get enough to get going.
I'm in no position to judge the puzzle. I'll defer to those who managed to solve it.
4
I'm waiting for someone to point out that you can't use singular EL with a plural word like CHEAPOS...
2
Oops, spoke too late...although it wasn't on this forum.
Rex Parker (I read him second) did just that, and took it one step further to call it "vaguely racist," quoting a scholastic treatise to prove it.
I got stuck in the north central region, because I didn’t (and still, Miriam-Webster notwithstanding, don’t) believe in the existence of SPANG, and several other words in that region were a mystery to me. Other than not knowing that CHARON and CHIRON are different mythological concepts, I did ok, but it was hard!
I do wish the app had the ability to favorite a clue/answer - right now, I’m jotting down reoccurring ones (like NOVA) in a notebook, but the app would be more convenient.
1
Deliciously difficult! Well done!
5
I did have to take a break with this one,but was able to figure it out. The only word I really had trouble with was ‘spang’. Never heard of that one.
1
Linda, I think of it as kind of a southern dialect thing. Or possibly midwest. At any rate, I can't imagine a New Englander saying it!
from an ex-Boston resident, at 11:58 Thursday AM EDT
This New Englander has never said it. I grew up in NWern PA (or Penna, as it was back then) and never said or heard it in those ENVIRONS either.
This southerner has never heard it, either.
Like the new “reveal toy.” It should eliminate some of that fiddle stuff you need to do to avoid revealing too much, while providing reaponses for those who want/need them.
As for this weeks puzzle, I thought it was wonderfully imaginative. A more pure form of rebus, IMO. I got the SE theme hint first which helped when I got to the NE Housewives lue, as I knew her name and quickly saw what had to be done. I didnkt notice the different types of hands as being a part of the theme.
3
Hmmm, dunno about this one. I managed to fill it all in after lots and lots of effort, double my usual time, and re-re-re-questioning SPANG...but the puzzle stretched the norms enough so that I think it was just barely out of bounds. "Mean" is fun, difficult is good, creativity excellent, but this one seemed to break more rules than than the solve merited. Or I'm just grumpy because I didn't get my endorphin reward of finishing and understanding and marveling. Wah. All that said, appreciated the challenge, Mean Joe.
4
I finished it in just a bit longer than my average, and without any lookups. But I didn't get the trick until after I read all of Deb's column. Even then it was making me scratch my head in bafflement. Not my favorite Thursday, I will say. To echo what someone said earlier, it seemed more like a gimmick than a challenge.
However, I am glad to have learned the word SPANG today.
I vaguely remember SEA HAG, but she was definitely the least of the three nemeses of Popeye, after Brutus and Bluto. Maybe she was in the newspaper comic strip?
1
Deb,
Can't you assume that people who are reading the column have already done the puzzle? Every time you go through contortions to not mention some answers and, for 99% percent of the readers (I'm guessing), it's just annoying. ;)
2
I would have thought that too, but learned in a thread a few weeks ago that it's not so ... lots of people come here for a hint to help them finish the puzzle, but don't necessarily want the whole solution. Deb asked how people prefer it and what we're seeing now is the result.
11
Thanks for the explanation, Deb. But it's just so hard for me to comprehend that I was ... wrong about something. :P
3
EASY NOW... not! Calling on things I hardly or don't know, cluing vaguely and obliquely, with a two-layer theme (the fill-in-the-rogue-down-squares part, and the HANDS DOWN refinement), and yet, IMO, gettable, and thus fair. My favorite puzzles put me into full battle mode, give me an EPIC fight, only to proudly succumb with a "Well played!"
This was almost that for me, but I had to look up Eva in the NE because I didn't know the show, hardly heard of her, didn't remember the Croce song, and couldn't crack the clues IDEAS and GO ALONG, and couldn't crack SPANG, even though upon eventually getting it, it makes sense to me. Also I guessed at the CENA/CHIRON cross (but was fairly confident of the guess). Still for the most part of the puzzle I was in that delicious battle, winning skirmish after skirmish and despite that lookup, I left this puzzle with a HEDY grin.
A tip of my HAT, Joe, for this!
4
Wurst pzll evr.
1
But how did you really feel, Mike?
I went through the usual thinking rebus at first, but eventually noticing the down bits of the entries. That was confirmed by the reveal. Lots of crucial unknowns made it a harder that usual for me Thursday, the Croce song and Desperate Housewives clues to name a couple. It also didn't help that I misread 14A as skirt. Thursday remains my favorite day in spite of today's difficulties.
4
Very badly designed.
2
Simply said: a crossword is a crossword. It’s already stupid to have rebuses because that’s against the original meaning of the game, but today you reached the worst.
I will simply cancel my subscription and look for crosswords that are really such.
5
I have to agree. Lately the puzzles are seeming more about finding the gimmick rather than language play or dipping into a rich vocabulary. I find myself pushing through them without having the delicious feeling of finding a clever turn of phrase.
6
What's more crossword than a word crossing itself?
You may not have liked this puzzle (it didn't check all the boxes for me, either, by the way), but let's not decry all efforts at creativity in the process.
Mr. Shortz's creative puzzles are generally head and shoulders over what came before them. Obscure plant genera, rivers in foreign lands, and the like.
Just follow the first link in paragraph 5, then click on the date of Will's first puzzle, and you'll see how great creativity can be.
4
I disagree. Puzzles like this can be frustrating but they make one think outside the box( Ha Ha). I've learned to expect trickery on Thursdays and brace myself accordingly. NYTimes puzzles are the best! Thanks Will Shortz.
Laughed when I saw HANDSDOWN, bec I JUST got a puzzle rejected bec Will didn't think IAGREEHANDSDOWN was in the language! FOund this very clever. I thought I found a fifth one in OPEN Hand (Name of an SF org that feed folks with AIDS and their caretakers..)
Speaking of which, I'm very touched, Deb, that you linked to the story my local ABC station did on my new "calling" in life! SF has become a tragic place and it looks like it's going to be up to individuals to try and make a difference (and keep the hippie/free spirit alive).
The reporter was EXTREMELY empathetic and very good about not exploiting folks in a very vulnerable situation. He produced this in hopes we will inspire others to adopt a local place.
(And, as a side note, the very generous owners of Nob Hill Pizza are Muslim immigrants...)
32
Hi, Andrea, and nice to see you back on the forum! You've been busy lately, I see, and I'm glad to see that you're doing some "tikkun olam" (I think that's the Muslim phrase for it, you could look it up*) and maybe that's why we've gone over two months without a puzzle from you.
* Actually, that's a Hebrew phrase meaning "repairing the world," but in regular use it refers to acts of social justice. Note the Muslim lady in the linked video saying that her religion requires such acts.
It's amazing how similar religions are to each other, despite the ignorant thinking only of the outward differences. Yes, "Allah" is the same God as Adonai or Jehovah, not some alternate one that a "strange, alien religion" uses.
Andrea, we've come a long way down (to come back to the puzzle theme) from the days of "I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing in Perfect Harmony."
4
Andrea, I am so incredibly proud of you! You are an enormous crossword constructor talent but your big heartedness and generosity to your neighbors is even more enormous, it's huge and truly beautiful. Brava!
4
This one really wasn't a lot of fun. Too many names I didn't recognize and other clues were arcane. I had to cheat. Got the "fore" etc. and that was amusing but still it was harder for me than most of the Sundays.
4
"...it was harder for me than most of the Sundays."
That shouldn't come as a surprise, Christine. Sundays are bigger, of course, but last I heard their "level of difficulty" was supposed to be in the Wednesday-Thursday range.
Not buying DEFORE/NSIC/ST
3
I usually don't get beyond a 4 day streak, but I was "this close" to accomplishing my first 5 day streak. I was so disappointed Not to achieve that because I had filled in all the correct answers, but as rebuses. Wah! Not fair!
4
When is a rebus not a rebus? When it's a Diabolical DiPietro!
HANDS DOWN the most innovative Thursday theme since One Way Streets, which snookered me completely. Got this one, though, in Extra Time.
Saw that the rebus didn't quite work in 51a TREA[SURE] MAP and noticed that SURE of 41d might have something to do with 51a. But what? Unveiling the revealer confirmed my suspicion.
Top half was still pretty sparse. In the NW, ALOHA and SCRUB were gimmies and I hit on TABLES for 5d. Took a stab at EL CHEAPOS and found the twist in 1a, DE[FORE]ST. Now I had a SURE HAND and a FORE HAND, both going down.
So the "rebus" was not stuffed in a box, but unwrapped... literally hanging there in plain sight. How Nifty!
From there quickly found the IRON and LONG HANDs. Still Naticked at 29a/29d/19d, but not too many possible letters to sort through.
In the end, a very puzzling but satisfying experience. Lots of great fill to boot. Thanks for the challenge, Joe. To paraphrase St. Thomas Augustine, give me more, but not yet.
4
Did it bother anyone else that FORE doesn’t end at a block like the others do? Why should I stop after 4 letters? What does FORENSICSST mean? And how does it relate to clearing trees?
This one took me a bit over my Thursday average, so I’m glad to hear that other folks found it somewhat challenging too. I had no editors to call for help.
Having never played words with friends I guessed SIX for J. Had PISTON before CELERY. Different kind of V8. Had ENTER before KEYIN. Had a lot of empty space after a first Across pass and wondered if it was Saturday somehow. Even after I had SPAN• from crosses, I still didn’t know SPANG. SPANG? Really?
7
Oh yes, and AFROASIAN is a surprise to me to. The AFRO part is no surprise, but ASIAN?
1
That's from the large part of the Caribbean island population descended from the Indian subcontinent peoples. Makes the food extra wonderful.
Mmm Trini food...
1
follow up:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinidad_and_Tobago_cuisine
I hate this one. Folks who do this on the app, how did you fare?
2
iPad app is especially user friendly when redoing or undoing a rebus. No smudgy residue.
4
Deb remembers Brutus, my recollection is Bluto. I googled and apparently there are two of those lugs. Now I know.
1
He was Bluto when I was a small boy and wore a plastic Popeye hat all the time. I also usually had a small coffee scoop for a pipe, and if I was really well behaved, my mother would paint tiny anchors on my forearms. By the time I outgrew the hat and pipe he had become Brutus.
8
Deb, your toy worked for me, on an iPhone. But ... you might have gotten too excited and not realized that you wrote that Andrea feeds the pizza, as in feeds a pet. !!
1
Pretentious and disappointing.
2
But what did you think of the puzzle?
5
That was a mind expanding puzzle. I got the revealer easily, but it took the longest time to figure out what it meant for me to do. I kept trying to find rebuses that made sense, without any luck. Finally the SW corner came together and showed me the way like a big X right SPANG in the middle of a treasure map.
Even then, though, I had enough blanks left that it wasn't that obvious where the other three theme entries were going to be found.
Finished slightly over average time for a Thursday, mostly due to groping around trying to find the theme entries.
Nice job, Mr. DiPietro.
1
I so concur. Painful
2
Ah, tricky Thursdays as we've come to expect. Went through a few passes before figuring something was up. I first entered "SURE"as a rebus for TREASURE MAP. But when I looked at the down entry to see how it would fit I saw the outline of SURE there already. I had TOMATO for V8 component which then I quickly changed to CELERY to go with the CENSURE and that's when I got the trick, though not the theme. So rather than coming here to figure out the theme, I actually worked it out while solving. Saw the revealer was HANDS DOWN and wondered why DEFOREST was the only one where the down portion ends in the middle of the down entry that contains it. Then I realized it must be that the down part has a relationship with the HANDS part of the revealer.
So, not straightforward, but doable for those who are used to tricky Thursday NY Times puzzles, but I hate to imagine beginners encountering this and being completely stuck.
Good thing is that all of the theme answers were not (that) obscure. AZOV and SPANG were A BIT pause-worthy. 35D AFROASIAN was news to me. I'd never heard of SHUL before. Have heard of "burn" but never heard of LAY RUBBER before.
Deb's new toy - worked well, though I would've preferred the programmers spend time fixing commenting system instead. Worked both in Chrome on my PC and in Safari on my iPad. Not sure how useful it will be, looking forward to it.
Pizza lady story - very good. We all need to do more for each other.
7
"Deb's new toy - worked well, though I would've preferred the programmers spend time fixing commenting system instead."
<reco>
<reco>
<reco>
4
Different tech teams. The community managers are working on the various issues, but it takes time to track the problem down, then implement a fix. Thanks, as always for your patience.
Hi Martin,
I'm on an iPhone 7 and can see it, but I don't know if that makes a difference. I've changed the text for the first one to say "Click on this clue: 'Easily ... and a hint to four answers in this puzzle." Does that help?
I thought it was a rebus at 1A, and was pleased that I figured it out so quickly...
... it didn't take TOO long to get back on track!
I knew SPANG, but I figured it was going to controversial!
1
I don’t see anything interactive using the NYT app on an iPhone. Just two ads. Nothing to click or reveal, not sure i understand what is supposed to be there.
Not certain I get the puzzle theme either, but that’s a different matter
1
Did you click on the line that reads “Easily ... and a hint to four answers in this puzzle” ?
I'm not using an iPhone, but on the web version on my laptop, when I clicked on that, the hint was revealed. It's not highlighted in the column in any way, so it looks just like part of the text.
If the iPhone version is noticeably different, I'm sure someone will tell us!
[reply #1, 10:56 pm EDT]
To get the revealer on the iPhone, click on the i(nfo) icon at the top of the screen, then click the "Get solving tips, comment on today's puzzle" link at the bottom of the Puzzle Info screen that opens. This will take you to the Wordplay column and where you can tap (click) on the specified lines. Tapping or clicking toggles the answers - tap once to see, tap again to hide.
Took me longer than average but I typically just jump in so I had to go back a few times. Now that I am done feel somewhere between relieved and frustrated.
2
tough but doable. liked the HANDS DOWN! got FORE SURE IRON and LONG in that order. needed help on crossings: e.g., from I GOT A NAME especially in the tough NE corner. All in all an excellent puzzle!
1
Well SPANG my rear and call me Charlie.
ELCHEAPO?
SPANG SPANG SPANG
Theme was almost golf related... FORE, IRON... LONG kinda works... but SURE not so much.
SPANG SPANG SPANG
1
All right, Dan: the Star SPANG-led Banner.
[Metoo was thinking golf/clubs]
It seems EASY NOW, but it wasn't at the time. I guess sometimes you just can't see DEFOREST for de TREAS.
Like LizB, I thought of Erlenmeyer first, but knew DEWAR as well. A small hitch at LAY RUBBER, where "burn" RUBBER is more familiar to me.
Pleased with finding CHIRON in the grid, having enjoyably analyzed Updike's Centaur at a critical time in my education. Bonus is finding the recent article headlined:
New Bugatti CHIRON Divo Will Be Faster And Handle Better In Ways No One Will Ever Use
And thanks for reminding me, as the youngest in the family, of the HANDS-me-DOWN that came my way. Felt special to have things custom-tailored to fit at the time, and even moreso now, remembering Mom's sewing by hand. [I can GO A LONG way on a few memories.]
As a pure solve. Joe DiPie, this turned out a HELLA EPIC. HEAR HEAR!!
I was right SPANG in the middle of doing this puzzle when I started to figure out what was going on. I never watched "Desperate Housewives" but I remembered that EVA LONGORIA was in it--none of the other stars--but since it started with EVAL.... I knew it had to be her. So clearly something strange was going on. GO ALONG seemed to work, so aha! the words are turning down in the middle.
So then I tried to apply this to other parts of the puzzle. FORENSICS fit, as did CHIRON, and the X clearly had to be on a TREASURE MAP. I vaguely remember SEAHAG from an earlier puzzle (?) but not from real life. The only flask I could remember was an ERLENMEYER flask, so DEWAR came from the crosses. AFRO-ASIAN was a surprise. Who knew?
10:37 Wednesday night EDT
9
Also, sometime to a small child
That's a great one, David.
This is my favorite Jim Croce song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RA4MykPm4s
3
Mine too, Barry, and I had planned to link it.
Substitute 'Chicago' for 'L.A.' and the line "Living in L.A. with my best old ex-friend..." quite precisely describes a period of my life after I dropped out of college (and before I got drafted). We did get over it eventually.
You can keep the dime.
1
Deb and developers:
Interactive should be highlighted in some way, no? All four of them appear as plain text on both my iPhone and laptop.
9:45 am EDT
1
[See comment above.]
SPANG?? SPANG??
And that as clue number 2, after missing an opportunity to clue DEFOREST as Kelley of Star Trek???
7
Had to use calculatus eliminatus to get SPANG. Fortunately the crosses were relatively easy. #nowiknow.
A clue for my favorite Jim Croce song!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcqauC49Xmc
A Villanova boy from South Philly, he died the day before this single was released, and didn't live to see the success of his several hits in 1973.
8
I'm quite sure that solving this puzzle will be much easier than trying to make sense of the comments (which is, of course, not a comment on the commenters). Let the real puzzle begin.
5
I’ve got to say that this was more a gimmick than a challenge in my book.
11:55 pm
4
I concur with you on that!
2
@xwE reply to @Barry (first comment)
To elaborate on my hasty 11:55 pm (last night) comment about theme being a gimmick, the relationship of the "down" portions to the word "hand" is dubious; i.e. "sure."
Sorry for the redundancy here, but I'm assuming that that original comment of mine will disappear at some point soon.
9:30 am EDT
2