Half of all Mexicans would like to live here. That's sixty million people. The majority do not speak English and nave little if any education. Do liberals really think we should increase our population by sixty million Mexicans?
5
The majority of Americans want illegal immigration stopped because they believe it hurts American citizens in various ways and rightly so.
12
It’s amazing that so many people continue to use the brain-dead argument that illegal immigrants are really bad people because the law is the law—actually illegal entry is a misdemeanor like not paying a parking ticket, but they raise this to a cosmic significance. Slavery was legal in the Old South, the Holocaust was legal in Germany, and Jim Crow was the law in the United States. The mere fact of the existence of a law does not automatically validate the morality of its imposition. And please, I am emphatically not in favor of “open borders,” another canard typically aimed at liberals; I’m in favor of fair treatment of immigrants, which would include severe penalties on employers for ignoring legal status of their employees.
2
Trump asks for waivers to hire foreign workers for his properties. What a hypocrite. We have examples of all of these wonderful kids who both love America and want to work to make America Great for Then as well as for all the other folks, including the Trump voters who want to deport them.
Shouldn't America want to accept people who want to, through their labor, make America great again? Trump, accept the people who will pull themselves away from their comfort zone and go to a new country to build a better life. They are the achievers, not the grifters like you who were born on first base and think that they had hit a home run.
3
These illegal immigrants aren't all happy, productive poster children for the American way of life. Recent media stories have been trying to minimize the problem of criminal Latino gangs here in the USA, saying MS 13 isn't such a big problem, that it's a Trumpian myth. These propagandists are making false propaganda. I lived in Northern Virginia for 16 years where there is a sizable population of people from south of the border. There is a difference between a legal immigrant and one who has sneaked into the country to exploit our resources. There was a criminal gang operating out of the apartment complex where I lived, menacing everyone who passed under their intense gaze. It was a relief when they were finally arrested by the police, before Trump was elected. The crime in Northern Virginia caused by Latino gangs was getting worse even before Obama was elected. I recall two people being robbed and shot near my apartment and another was killed on a nearby pedestrian trail shortly after I left, in 2009. Maybe many of the illegals have been sent back by Trump by now. I wonder if the NYT censors will allow me to call them "illegals". It doesn't conform with their new interpretation of the politically correct term of "undocumented immigrant".
16
Let them get in line behind all the others following the rules. cross illegally.No sympathy for lawbreakers or those on the Left who encourage them to cross illegally.
15
I hope Democratic strategists are reading these comments today, opposing illegal immigration. Get some sensible immigration policy, tone down the identity politics, and take the wind out of Republican sails.
21
The hypocrisy of Republicans claiming to sympathize with American “low-wage workers” is monumental. Stop trying to suppress labor unions and supporting the “gig economy” and jobs without regular hours and overtime,etc. and you might have some credibility on the point of immigrants “taking our jobs,” something on which there is minimal evidence, by the way.
5
Democrats will not win until they stop all their crying over illegal aliens and other minority groups and start crying over US Citizens who are middle class, working 2 or 3 jobs, and have lost any hope of a "middle class" lifestyle - home ownership, nice car, good schools, some vacation time.
10
This article was sure to bring out the racist, nativist, law and order hordes who pick and choose the laws they want enforced and ignore the illegalities of Emoluments Man and his crime family. I am embarrassed that they are my neighbors. Deport all the "aliens" tomorrow and the country will be a dysfunctional parody by the end of the week. Give Trump another year and the country will be a dysfunctional parody anyway.
7
Deport all the illegals.
Those who used to employ illegals will find they have to pay more and respect employee rights.
Millions of jobs will go unfilled.
Eleven million people will be hurt, plus their families and those who care for them.
And there will be enormous pain, both morally and economically, for those of us who remain.
Immigrants, even the illegal ones, commit less crimes than we do.
They do not cause us to earn less or lose our job.
Our real problems will only get worse.
We will respond by shifting our hatred to another scapegoat.
It would be better to look at other countries with a better solution for immigration, such as Canada. Punish their employers.
The problem of how to build the better society is even easier. Look at every other developed country in the world, without exception. We need less economic inequality.
But our rich already know this.
They can live with the unjust harm to our immigrants, whose numbers should be controlled but whose value should be recognized.
They can live with it, because by pushing our anger elsewhere they get to keep our money.
5
Another point occured to me about liberal complaint about low wages which impoverish a vast number of Americans even when technically speaking they may be employed. Well, have these same liberals thought how the millions of illegal immigrants depress the wages for all working class Americans? If we didn't have cheap illegal immigrant labour then the same employers will be forced to pay higher to attract and retain legal American workers. Perhaps then the overall standard of living and quality of life will improve for all Americans and not just the top 20 percent. So why doesn't NYT talk about the impact of illegal immigration on American worker income? I know the answer, yes it is called liberal hypocrisy who are happy to have underpaid illegal immigrants and then also complain about worker income not rising in the US.
21
Just today I asked five people in three states if they would vote for Trump again. All said YES. This piece of propaganda does’t change minds. It hardens them. Please stick to objective news stories.
14
Let's admit these facts: all white immigrants and descendants of white immigrants are illegal aliens, because they were not invited here by the indigenous people.
A lot of the people who want to come here are indigenous people who DO belong here, and have more of a right to be on this continent than we do.
So why are we debating who has a right to be here?
Maybe we should deport white people back to Europe.
I'd be willing and happy to go. Where can I go, and bring my cats with me? I'm willing to live on a boat in order to avoid quarantines. I'm part Swedish, so I'd love to go back to Sweden. I think it would be a great place to live.
3
Before the Spanish conquerers arrived in the 1500s to what is now Mexico, there were "Native Americans" living on that land.
Did the latter invite the Spanish invaders to evolve the Mexican ethnicity? No. Will you argue therefore that current Mexicans don't have a right to their land? Doubt it.
And did the Clovis invite the "Native Americans"? No. Did they ask for the Native Americans to exterminate them? No. Will you argue that said extermination invalidates Native Americans' claims to North America? Doubt it.
If you are using the "The First Member of an Ethnicity to Set Foot on a Continent = Entire Continent Belongs to Said Ethnicity Forever" you have got to apply a modicum of consistent logic. And you don't.
Perhaps quite cherry-picking your arguments and ethnic preferences. Either it is "First Come, Forever Rule" or it isn't and you have got to broaden your perspective and come up with more consistent rules for assigning authority over land masses.
8
Love this POV! You should submit a letter to the editor. I so tried of the "we are all iillegal immigrants becasue of Native Americans" aguement.
1
I don't approve of illegal immigration but employers are to blame and most Americans are clueless on their cost structure. Americans will realize the true cost of vegetable and meat, hotels and housekeeping when they clap down on illegal immigration. The commercial food/meat factories want it both ways. They claim subsidies, employ illegal cheap labor and then blame the illegals for the crime. Historically, when you are white someone else is always the problem.
3
Crossing the border illegally is not the only way to get a "better life".
Why not work towards a Mexican dream? Why not work to build a better society amongst your native brethren? How come people can't work to improve the countries they are in so that life is better there? That's the only real way the world as a whole will improve.
27
NYT and Democrats of all stripes, read the following from the LA Times. After 25 years, the farming company, D'Arrigo has stopped fighting the UFW unionizing efforts. Why? Labor is so scarce, they felt compelled to do so in order to have the workforce. Whyyyyyyy is labor scarce? Might it have something to do with tightening the border and changing the narrative?
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ufw-darrigo-20180706-story.html
This is precisely what Cesar Chavez, an outspoken opponent of illegal "Immigration", was saying decades ago.
14
Enter any other country illegally and see what happens- including Mexico. Their immigration rules are significantly more rigorous than ours. But Mexico has no problem allowing illegals to cross it's territory, as long as they don't stay. I say of Mexico lets them in, Mexico can keep them.
21
It’s amazing how many people buy the idea that our immigration laws are “weak.” Just as in every other country, it’s against the law to come into this country without papers. The consequence is deportation. What else can the law do? If our border patrols are understaffed and incompetent to carry out this responsibility, this is not because the law is weaker than other countries.’ As for amnesty, which undoubtedly complicates this issue, every civilized country accepts refugees under various treaty arrangements. How does a country claiming to be a religious, civilized, compassionate people refuse refugees. The claims from “nationalists” about the largely unverified dangers of doing this strike me as ridiculous and utterly insincere.
3
Most countries that accept refugees make hem live in tents. They don’t get healthcare nor do their kids get schooling. Generally they make their lives so miserable, the refugees want to leave as soon as possible. Even Canada and Europe have quietly refused to accept more refugees or give Them asylum.
And this is how the Democratic Party loses most elections and can't focus long enough for a consistent common sense stream of Congressional authority. Keep it up, NYT and lefties. You keep shoving away and angering the centrists of both parties and even the liberals that you and the country so desperately have needed since the 1960s revolving door of red v. blue that keeps turning and turning but taking the U.S. nowhere. It's exhausting now just listening to the progressive socialists who care not one whit about America and half our fellow Americans in despair and struggling for decades. We ought not have set immigration laws in 1965 to take in more than 1 million 3rd world immigrants per year, which came with more than 1 million illegals - decade after bloated decade. Millions of own children should not be homeless and hungry because their parents and grandparents no longer dream of a better life and cannot find decent, well-paid full time permanent employment.
19
I wish the NYT would stop with the relentless emotional manipulation regarding illegal immigration. Yes, some illegal immigrants are wonderful people, and some are gang members. Some are professionals and some are on benefits. Just like Americans, they are all types of people, some of them wonderful. The difference is they are not US citizens, and they are illegal. Nothing anyone can say, no article you can print, no photo you can share will change the fact these people have entered illegally or illegally over stayed their visas. Actions have consequences, and if the Democrats and other liberals don’t start supporting enforcement of our immigration laws, we will have two full terms of President Trump.
24
“Emotional manipulation?” What sort of stone fills the space in you where normal people have hearts? If these accounts do not define “injustice” and “cruelty” I don’t know what does, short of genocide. And ask people who know me, I’m anything but a bleeding-heart type.
5
OMG, who was the clueless editor who chose to slot an ad for EB-5 visas into this heartbreaking story? These people who have been torn out of our society by Trump's crime-family fascism are better Americans than many of us, yet the Times inserts an ad cheerily explaining that anyone with a half a million dollars to "invest" can pave a path to US immigration?
Really? Arrive here innocently as a child, grow up as American as the kids next door or down the street or next to you in class, and the drooling monsters in the White House just negate your existence, but we'll be happy to let you in from wherever, whenever, if the price is righr?
What a horrible country we are becoming. Shame. Shame. Shame.
7
Given that the Left melts telling us migrofrom Mexico is actually negative these few should join their fellow nationals and rejoice leaving the US. After all, the Left keeps telling us how great other countries are so go there. Just know for me and my fame America is the greatest country in the history of mankind!!
8
Enough of the sob-stories! There isn't enough room for all the people who rather be here than work on their own country. Where do Americans escape to when things aren't good? We have enough poverty and social issues to take care of for U.S. citizens born here-- and there's no other country that will take in our poor and needy!
20
Why don’t these illegal alien immigrants from Mexico arm themselves, return to their nations, assassinate or execute all of their corrupt government employees and criminal gang members ala the French revolution.
Then they could and adopt a constitution similar to the US constitution, especially including the second amendment to prevent another similar corrupt criminal government from ever taking over their nations again!
This is similar to what the founders of France and the USA did to establish these great nations!
6
Because it is just much easier to come into the US.
5
Bravo to the volunteers with New Comienzos, "bringing the American dream to Mexico". How can we help them? Here are Mexico's real heroes, following in the foot steps of Martin Luther King. MLK-- didn't tell African Americans to cut and run for Canada-- he told them to organize and fight for change in their own country . And that's the spirit that made America great. We have a long proud history of citizen activism: a labor movement, a women's movement, a civil rights movement, a war on poverty, an environmental movement, a human rights movement---- Americans have a long history of looking inward, facing down entrenched elites, and making the changes we needed to make, even when it was painful, and some gave their lives. And that's the price of liberty. I'm cheering for the Mexicans who return to their country to build a new future. God bless them!
10
I would pose a question to the people here who seem to support open borders. "How many people do you want to see in the US before you would be in favor of restricting entry? 400 million? 500 million A billion? How many do you want to let in?"
An ancillary question is "Do you desire that taxes be raised significantly to deal with the crowding and infrastructure needs of a greatly increased population? If not how do you reconcile these two positions or do you just ignore the cost that large scale illegal immigration imposes upon society?"
It seems to me like the same people who descry the carbon burden of the average American and believe we are destroying the planet are also among those who want to allow millions of 3rd world people into the US where their carbon burden immediately skyrockets. Why would that be, I wonder?
34
Tucker Carleson used to ask this every night on his show and not one guest would ever answer it.
Why not? Because they don't want to admit that their secret answer is: "as many as we can get."
11
As a Mexican living in US "Legally" (I work in Tech), I have a good perspective of both societies ,and I have to say that this article is a little exaggerated. It portraits Mexico as a law-less territory where you get killed for nothing and you have zero opportunities to thrive. Yes and No, is like saying that all U.S. is Wisconsin. Of course you have very poor areas and that is definitely an issue, but you also have thriving cities that would embrace this 'Americanized' Mexicans. Where I'm coming from (Mexico City) Gay marriage is perfectly legal (mentioned just to show how progressive the city is), Volunteerism is totally a thing (My grandmother have done it for 30 years), Education, if you are smart enough, is paid by the government and there are plenty of opportunities for bilingual motivated individuals.
Other thing that Americans don't appreciate, and please NYTimes please write about this too. Is the Brain Drain that U.S. is receiving from Mexico (and pretty much any other country in the world). Highly educated individuals that prefer to migrate and help U.S. instead of helping their own societies. And this includes me (Mea Culpa) , my college education was paid by Mexican taxes but last year I contributed 35K to American IRS in taxes. So yes, America of course I love you, but to have a better understanding of the relation between our own countries you might need to dig deeper.
31
So, settling in Mexico would be reasonable and happy for a family from Central America.. And perfectly legal.
10
Why is it that the countries south of the border cannot get their acts together? They have beautiful country, abundant resources, almost everything required to create a robust economy. Perhaps it's time for the US to move south and replace the corrupt socialist governments, build robust economies and then open the borders.
18
Sure why not. It worked so well in Iraq.
That’s what NAFTA was supposed to do.
3
Maybe because they can't shake off years of US interference in their elections, their governments, and their societies. Why can't America get it's act together? Conservative intransigence.
3
Uh, has anyone noticed that these people are not Americans? Where is the American dream for Americans? These people are "economic terrorists," nothing more, nothing less. The solution is to deport each and every economic terrorist in the United States without exception. The American people, through their elected officials, decide who comes to the United States, who stays and who goes. We cannot surrender to an invading force of economic terrorists who say quite openly that they are not going anywhere, regardless of American laws and the will of the American people. They need to go! No exceptions.
29
Were your ancestors Americans when they first arrived here?
3
If Liberals believe the current laws are inhumane they can go through the normal political process to change them. That's generally how Democracy works.
25
The American dream applies to Americans, but why can't there be a Mexican dream? Why not try to replicate the conditions that make America special in countries such as Mexico? Mexico just voted into office a reformer and progressive, at the loud applause of liberals everywhere, hopefully he will bring about positive change in Mexico for Mexican citizens. If liberals do not believe this, they are being inconsistent.
16
That “reformer” just release hundreds of thousands from jail.
2
Of all the ugliness brought to the surface of American society by Trump and his sycophants, his - and many of our - attitudes toward Hispanic immigrants is the perhaps the most egregious. Under the guise of getting rid of "political correctness", it's now "okay" to speak of immigrants - illegal and legal alike - as though they're a pestilence. "They bring crime," (ignoring study after study demonstrating that Hispanic immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than natural born whites); "They form gangs like MS-13," (ignoring the fact that MS-13 originated in 1980); "They bring drugs," (ignoring the fact that drug smuggling into the U.S. is carried out as a "business" by international cartels, not individual immigrants except on the tiny scale of being "mules"). Through a propaganda campaign of distortion and outright mendacity, Trump et al are doing their best to convince us that Hispanic immigrants are determined to tear our society apart, to lose its American identity. To that I say this: compassion and empathy are a cornerstone of that identity, and have often set us apart from most of the rest of the world. Judging from some of the comments here, it seems that the propaganda campaign is succeeding. What a pity.
3
"Over the last few weeks we were in Mexico, beginning an oral history project documenting the migrant experience. Over the course of three weeks our team surveyed and interviewed more than 200 returning Mexican migrants, the vast majority of them deportees."
Here are some of the questions I hope you asked these folks, but would bet my life you didn't:
How many years did you live in the US and without paying any income tax? How many years without paying social security taxes? If you return, what are your plans for paying back taxes? Did you ever use fake IDs, and how many fake IDs did you use? Did you ever drive on US streets without a drivers license? Did you ever drive without automobile insurance?
And last but not least: In all those years you lived in the US, why did you never take any steps to become a legal immigrant?
20
I don't think illegal immigration is good and I support limiting immigration rates. But I can also see the reason in the argument for compassion for illegal citizens. Perhaps a one time amnesty, and then a zero tolerance policy would be fair, make everyone happy and end this political stand off.
The migrant crisis is a real and global crisis. The first world has also stood up when called to help other nations whether for war or peace. I see the same need here. This needn't be increasing immigration rates, or tolerating illegal immigration; it could instead be through encouraging and supporting other countries in becoming fully able to care for all their citizens, ending the constant need for asylum. I feel that helping raise up the third world is the last of the first world's duties, and in doing so would effectively, fairly, compassionately deal with this crisis.
2
I respect your compassion, however I do have a couple of comments:
1) No such thing as "illegal citizens". I assume you meant "illegal resident", which is actually more accurate.
2) Reagan tried a one-time amnesty in 1986. Didn't work. It only encouraged more illegal migration in the hops of another "one-time" amnesty in the future.
3) World peace would be wonderful and would stop the flow of displaced people (refugees). The primary problem at our southern border is economic migrants, that is, people from poorer countries moving to richer countries. Without regulating this flow of, mostly unskilled, labor, the richer country would have to bear the burdens associated with this population (housing, education, health care, crime, etc.).
Bottom line, compassion is a wonderful thing, but it must be moderated by practical concerns.
17
We DID that in 1986. Democrats double crossed Reagan, of whom I'm no fan, and refused to then enact bona fide changes to the wide open LBJ 1965 immigration law that created this costly bloated nightmare to America.
10
Since I was around and practicing law at the time of the Reagan “amnesty,” I can tell you that the reason it didn’t work was that employers claimed that it was impossible to know whether a worker was illegal or not. That was the baloney you would expect from business, and they are still peddling the same nonsense in the computerized eVerify era.
3
Since 1886, Lady Liberty has welcomed legal immigrants to a legal port of entry. She has never invited illegal immigrants to enter the country illegally. During the 1880s when the Statue of Liberty was dedicated, America accepted about 525,000 legal immigrants per year. Today, it accepts about 1.2 million legal immigrants per year while absorbing hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants per year.
26
Thank you very much for doing these interviews and writing this article. I think many of us wonder what happens when illegals immigrants who lived all their lives in America are sent back to their native lands. I'm happy there are organizations and volunteers helping them through the resettlement process, and I hope their new government will bring some real and lasting progress and an end to the crime and corruption. I also hope all Americans can start to see their fellow citizens, whether legal or illegal for what they are- human beings worthy of understanding, and mercy. The hate driving these dreamers from America needs to end.
1
The American Dream still means a lot to many people. So much so that many wait years to emmigrate from their countries of origin. To borrow a phrase from the open border folks: Those coming in from Mexico don't get to jump ahead in line because of where they were born.
18
It is so tiresome to read stories that allege it is unjust for America to have and enforce immigration laws. It would be wonderful if everyone could enjoy the "American dream," but there are at least 5 billion people in the world who would like to enjoy that dream and it is impossible to accommodate all of them. That American has laws to regulate the process for sharing the dream is only reasonable. People who don't agree with the process don't have a right to circumvent it and the lawful processes of the American democracy.
34
As a legal immigrant to this country, I just don't feel that sympathetic to those who came here illegally. The legal immigration process in the US is sorely lacking and in need of a major revamp but the truth of the matter is, not everybody is qualified to immigrate here. The same is true for all other countries. Instead of spending all of our time on figuring out how to let illegals stay in this country legally, why don't we work to make our legal immigration system better. I am all for temporary seasonal visas--making them easier and faster to get. For those who have a track record of being in this country legally, say 10 years of temporary seasonal visas, we can provide them with a way to get a green card and a way forward. But rewarding those who have broken the law for a long enough time doesn't really say much about our legal system.
These things that the authors are trying to use to tug at heart strings--playing with the kids next door, eating ice cream, etc.--these are things that legal immigrant kids do as well. Except that if they lose their legal status, there's no DACA to protect them from deportation and there is no one in this country fighting for them to stay even though they might have been in the same boat--except, of course, their parents brought them over legally.
47
"These memories of migrant life in the United States stand in stark contrast to the inhumane crackdown simultaneously unfolding at the border. The returning migrants we met are products of an American society that is forgetting its identity."
"It's identity?" Number one feature of its "identity:" Rule of Law.
The author's focus is on the alien who lived here illegally, When will he ever (he won't ever) focus on the stagnant wages that beset our middle class and hung over it like a wet blanket for far too long? The American Dream I remember INCLUDED the feeling that things would be better next year; that if I worked hard and well this year, next year I would earn more, and maybe get promoted to a position of more responsibility.
The mass drivers for illegal immigration are twofold:
1. The big business community, which thrives on the salary status quo; it hasn't had to raise wages because of the endless supplu of labor, and
2. The Democrat party --which, by fostering and advocating illegality in immigration, works as the handmaiden to big business, which it simultaneously claims to fight against.
Thus as wages here stagnated and the American Dream began to look more like a Nightmare, the DNC worked with big business to keep those wages stagnant, while talking a very different game: they used pejorative terms to stifle dissent; xenophobia, racism, and the like; they used thuggery; they used legal harassment of their political enemies.
34
What I find amazing that the enforcement of the rule of the law is now condemnable! Then Congress should change the law to make what is illegal now as legal, until then the US ought to be governed by rule of the law, the one major aspect which separates the US from Mexico and that many of the illegal migrants ironically find as the enduring attraction (or the quality of better life here is the outcome of people more or less following rule of the law) while they themselves break the law to enter the US and live here without permission.
In India they have the most elaborate laws in the books, but guess what, more or less people don't follow the law or the laws are not enforced more or less or can be bypassed with a bribe. Look where that got India into.
I do not want the US becoming like Mexico or India, that is not why I chose to live here and opted for US citizenship while giving up Indian one while following the rule of the law.
42
I don't typically support illegal immigrants but a couple of questionable things jumped out at me:
"After introducing his friends to guacamole, they insisted on eating at his place."
Really? Was he not invited to the homes of his so-called friends?
"...laughingly nicknamed her the 'alien'"
Yeah, my friends laughingly nicknamed me the n-word. Haha, no.
I am not surprised that these two items were included in the article without any degree of context or clarity. Apparently the pro-Trump crowd is not the only home for xenophobes and racists.
7
"Apparently the pro-Trump crowd is not the only home for xenophobes and racists."
Beg your pardon, but the pro-Trump crowd is Not home for xenophobes and racists; that is just Democrat propaganda. We are for equal rights and race-blind immigration, as well as race-blind university admissions. We can't help it if some goofball racists latch on to us, any more than the Left can help it if goofball communists and Maoists latch onto them. But what we stand for--what our agenda stands for is a growing economy that will raise all American boats.
4
Illegal immigrants are almost 70% more likely to receive government benefits than are non immigrant Americans. If we are, indeed, exporting better values to Mexico when we deport illegal immigrants then deportation of those here illegally is an unalloyed good!
Lets help Mexico out and do more of this.
36
If illegal immigrants don't have SSNs and don't pay taxes, I'd like to know where you got your blatantly false statistics. Fox "News" doesn't count...
1
This has been refuted repeatedly. Illegals are the LEAST likely to get governmental benefits. Illegals do not have the paperwork to get benefits. Most pay a great amount of money into government programs by using a false social security number, but are unable to get the benefits out.
Illegals are the least likely to use hospitals and other health care benefits since they would probably get deported.
Federation for American Immigration reform. Copiously footnoted so see for yourself.
It is a true statistic and comes from US government publications, believe it or not!
https://www.fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illega...
Were they asked if they planned to be a part of bringing the Rule of Law to their own country?
26
It’s all well and good to speak about immigration reform, but why should Americans believe that migrants would respect a new law any more than they respected the old law?
30
I came to this country legally over 20 years ago to pursue graduate studies. I got a job legally and went through long cycles of visa renewals and even longer wait times for a green card once an employer sponsored me. It took me 15 years to get my permanent residency and 20 years to get my citizenship.
Compare that to someone who claims asylum at the border. They get an instantaneous work permit and get a green card in under 2 years if they have a close relative in the US. I know of folks who claim asylum based on problems in other parts of their home country which they themselves have not been affected by.
Why can't asylum immigrants be given temporary work permits after careful vetting and have them go through the same criteria that other legal immigrants go through to get residency and citizenship.
As for illegal immigration the employers are more to blame. Many of them are employed by Republican owned meat and food factories to do jobs that domestic workers don't want to do.
20
President Putin and Vice President Trump are doing everything they can--aside from nuking our own county--to destroy this nation. Stay out of California, you are not welcome.
1
Ironic that they are importing American values that are becoming endangered in America itself ; how sad. Sadder yet , is how Trump has managed to bring out all that is odious in the human heart . Perhaps these young people will become the hope of Mexico and bring about a new age in a land rich in culture , tradition , and root out the rampant corruption . I wish them well with New Comienzos , they are brave and good .
2
Trump has brought forth greatly increased job opportunities for Hispanics, blacks and women. It might do lefties some good to study how all that is odious in the human heart gets magnified in families where the breadwinner can't wi the bread anymore because the economy is stagnant and there is an oversupply of labor from endless immigration. Alcoholism, drug abuse, often stem from hopelessness. Trump is doing his best, and we are supporting him in all his efforts, to increase economic opportunity here for everyone. Step one: stop the endless increase in the labor supply that comes from endless immigration. Allow our own unemployed to come out of the woodwork and go back to earning a living and some self-respect.
2
Nothing like an article about the humanity of illegal immigrants to bring out every troll to condemn their fellow man. The US destroyed the countries these people left, and our policies incentivized them to move here to work. Our drug war has undermined the governments of Latin America. This is a crisis entirely of our own making, but it's the alien who receives our scorn
6
Um, when was the last time we invaded Mexico? Can't seem to find that on Google. Thanks.
5
THEIR drug war. You honestly think none of the people in Mexico, Central and South America do drugs? If so, you also likely think none of the 80 million latinos in America do drugs.
5
These can be the pioneers to make Mexico a better place. The solution is not to dump the global underclass on the few functional societies that exist, but to gradually transform the chaos that dominates Central America. I wish them all the best.
25
Then why don’t you work to persuade our government to stop interfering in Latin America, causing economic turmoil and violence.
Somehow i accidentally hit the wrong key and a post with a half finished sentence was entered. we really need a way to edit these posts within a minute of posting.
"When did it become the norm that only the foreign-born be given the "opportunity" to search for a better life?" Under the Obama administration and with the help of political correctness--the one-two punch. PC made it culturally unacceptable to dispute the wisdom of endless unvetted immigration lest one subject oneself to charges of racism, xenophobia, and the dreaded "hate speech." That's when it became the norm. That norm was voted out in 2016.
21
When did it become the norm to separate children , toddlers and babies, from their poor desperate mothers, throw them in for profit cages, never to see their parents again.
2
Zejee, it became the norm in 1997, under Bill Clinton. Litigation had gone on for twelve years, but Bill Clinton's AG, Janet Reno, settled it. They call it "Flores". It calls for separation of migrant minor aliens from adultt detention facilities after 20 days. And it has been the law ever since.
While this is sad, we cannot have a policy of allowing people to come to the U.S. illegally with their children and get to stay because they haven’t been caught for 10 or 15 years. It’s probably kinder in the long run to deport people more quickly if they can’t qualify to live here, so they don’t spend a lot of their lives here. People have always come to the U.S. as legal immigrants and had to learn a new language and customs. This is that situation in reverse. These people have the advantage of having citizenship and cultural ties to their parents’ countries. They are not American citizens.
36
One question I never get an answer to from those who condemn nearly all attempts to enforce our immigration laws is this: Is there any level of immigration that is is too much? Or do you want to remove all limits and open the borders to all who can merely get on a bus or plane?
Most I have asked this deny they want open borders and say they just want more humanitarian treatment of unauthorized immigrants. However they will admit that criminals should be denied. But if borders are not totally open, then if more people arrive than our annual limit, what else can you do with those that sneak in other than deport them?
The world population is 8 billion people, and if only one in every 1,000 were to immigrate each year, that would be 8 million annually. The US population would double in 40 yrs. During the Irish famine, 25% of them immigrated here. Currently, 10% of living Mexican born people are living in the US, half of them legally (welcome fellow citizens!), but half illegally.
Removing all limits to immigration, or willingness to enforce limits, will create a wave from failing countries like Venezuela (33 million population), Guatemala (16 million), Honduras (9 million) etc. Does your city have room for another 10,000 homeless? Jobs, housing, food, health care, schools, etc? Such a surge will touch off a right wing take over as now in Europe.
Most immigrants are great people. But there are physical limits on how fast they can arrive without creating costly problems.
53
They create wage stagnation.
5
Want the American Dream? Obey our laws. Its that simple. Now the Times and their cohorts in the Democrat Party want to convince us that allowing those to stay who circumvented our laws, tried to sneak in and got caught, and jumped the line ahead of those attempting to emigrate here legally - is somehow the American way?
Look no further than the co-Chair of the Democrat National Committee (DNC), Keith Ellison, who was wearing a shirt that said "I dont believe in borders" - in SPANISH, at a campaign event. Dont these people realize how much illegal immigration hurts poor American citizens? Especially African Americans?
2018 is going to be the year many moderate Democrats recall that was when the Democrat Party left them, and they either vote Republican or stay home..
50
And it is with that attitude (by the Dems that is) that will hand them another 4 years by 45. So to all of you bleeding hearts out there who are foaming at the mouth for people who break our laws (knowingly) thank you. That would be sarcasm.
4
State sanctioned Crimes against humanity also hurt all Americans. Except those profiting from for profit detention centers and orphanages.
Sorry to tell you, but we will ALWAYS deport illegal immigrants. We certainly cant provide the "American Dream" to the entire world! We will ALWAYS have limits to the number of LEGAL immigrants, which means that there will ALWAYS be people that want to live here but they cannot. Stop with the emotionalism and foolish politics. Try to be reasonable.
47
Did any of them explain why their parents didn’t bother to become citizens? Or try to enter legally?
30
Seeking asylum is legal.
1
You mean like the Dreamers did when they followed the regulations only to have Trump and the GOP do-nothings in congress pull the rug out from under them?
1
Perhaps articles such as this one are not helpful? Or to put it more realistically maybe articles such as this one are entirely too helpful to the GOP?
28
They are criminals AND are a drain on the economy. My taxes pay for their "free" education, free school meals, free medical
33
Those things that many Americans don't get. Like the working poor in this country. The Times will continue to share stories like this but the American public is getting tired of them.
25
Margo -Trump claims unemployment is at a record low. So what is it? Full employment or illegals stealing our jobs? Hard as they try, conservative hypocrites can't have it both ways. The American public is getting tired of them.
At least one good and positive thing is coming from what is increasingly becoming a sad indictment of current American political and national leadership on Immigration and its treatment of immigrants in more recent times.
That is of those people who have been deported to their birth Country and prohibited from staying/returning to the country of where they were raised, educated, lived , grew up in and around where they were shaped and made to be who they remain to this day...American.
And it is by and because of that and who they are ...these "Exiled Americans" are now influencing and very gradually impacting on their new home and subly shaping it in ways and manners more akin to the America they grew up in (versus the America it is now changing for the worse into) and by that , making for a better, greater place that they are now by their presence and circumstance changing into a place that is closer and more familiar to the home and country they were part of and identified with.
This positive gain for Mexico is the only good to be coming from what is ultimately and in reality, without question America's greater loss.
4
I’m on record here repeatedly defending the proposition that the “Dreamers” – people who were brought here illegally as small children who grew up and have spent practically their entire lives as Americans, who are by culture Americans – should either immediately be granted U.S. citizenship or have that status conferred in a highly expedited way … once we’ve largely secured the border against illegal entry. In the meantime, leave them alone.
To punish people for the sins of their parents is … positively biblical – FIRST Testament, not Second; and has little to do with real justice. It has to do with an unwise and inhuman policy of no-exceptions and ruthless DISincentivization of parents entering illegally for economic reasons with their dependent children in tow.
That written, however, I must note that this op-ed recounts the injustice of the deportation of a relative few, and the impact on their American lives once deported, while pressing such emotional buttons to demonize an ENTIRE process of deportation of ALL illegal aliens. It’s a transparent and cynical argument for open-borders.
As such, it does nothing to bring us together on how to address the serious challenge of illegal entry. Indeed, the transparency of the argument may poison the well with millions of Americans who take this issue very seriously for rational discussion on how to solve a practice that violates our laws and that makes lawful immigration a farce.
11
"The American Dream" begins with a visa--not political expedience.
34
I’m on my way back from spending 10 days in Mexico City and Oaxaca, MX. It was nice to be away from this debate while I was away and immerse myself in the wonderful culture of Mexico, and to be reminded of the strong bond between Mexico and the U.S.
On my travels I met many who had spent time in the U.S. What most Americans don’t realize is that the SW U.S. was part of Mexico, and that Mexicans have a historic and, in many cases, a familial bond in the US. It is not uncommon to hear about the family members spending months and even years with an aunt, uncle, or a brother or a sister. Mexicans travel to the U.S., and stay for extended periods, because, to them, it is home just the same way, visiting a relative in the Midwest is home.
All Mexicans that I spoke with find the “wall” laughable and don’t really understand the need or even understand the politics that is driving the debate in the U.S. As noted in the piece, Mexico, which is a very young democracy, has significant challenges, and the ugliness of politics of the the U.S. debate on immigration barely registers. Most Mexicans want better roads, less crime and better schools, and, with they take to the streets and fight for a better Mexico.
All the tired rhetoric of closing the boarder and punishing Americans for decisions they didn’t make fails to acknowledge the complexity of our relationship with our neighbor. My dream would be for some civility and compromise on this issue, and recognition that we can be better.
6
We also have a young democracy. Not all of Mexico is dangerous
7
Much of this story doesn't add up.
First, if these folks lived nearly their entire lives in the U.S. and went to school here, why didn't they register under DACA so that they might have had a chance to say? There may or may not be good reasons, but it's a glaring, obvious question that is completely unaddressed.
Secondly, I wonder how these folks got jobs at McDonald's without papers. McDonald's is a pretty big corporation that runs a pretty tight ship. I find it hard to believe that McDonald's would knowingly hire illegal immigrants--prospective employees are required to show proof legal right to work--then keep them employed when it turned out they had no Social Security numbers or valid work permits/visas. Maybe there was a way, but if I owned McDonald's, I'd be mad and on the phone now with NYT.
Stuff like this undercuts the story, and even then, it is hard to figure out the point of the piece. News flash: Folks from Mexico like the U.S. because it offers economic and educational opportunities unavailable south of the border.
The hard truth is, Republicans can take this story and say, "See? This proves our point. Workers at McDonald's and at the factory discussed aren't getting paid more because of illegal immigration. Since Trump cracked down with ICE, unemployment is down and wages have started to climb." That may or may not be true, but what's the comeback? A lotta folks will believe it, and articles like this will only convince them that they're right.
24
Illegal "immigrants" supply forged Social Security cards and perjure themselves to complete an I-9 to work. All an employer is required to do under Federal law is see the SS card and get the I-9. The use of the Federal eVerify system is in most places voluntary. Employers hire illegal workers every day and break no laws when they do.
We need mandatory eVerify with workplace audits. So far, only Republicans are interested in doing this. Deep Blue California went so far as to pass a law prohibiting any municipality in the state making the use of eVerify mandatory.
33
@Kurfco,
Actually, I think you need two pieces of ID--one can be a SS card (old ones are easy to forge), the other can be a driver's license. At some point, if you don't have a valid Social Security number, the government will, I think, inform the employer, and if that employer is McDonald's (or some other big corporation that relies on goodwill to stay in business), I suspect that you'd be removed from the payroll pronto. McDonald's doesn't want to be known for employing illegal immigrants.
Your point about eVerify seems a good one, but I suspect it still wouldn't be bulletproof--there are always going to be folks who will pay people under the table (otherwise, no one's house would ever get roofed and no one's swimming pool would ever get cleaned). I'm not sure how workable audits might be--I don't know how many illegal immigrants are working in the U.S., but the number must be well into the seven figures. Would we hire a bunch of auditors and do random inspections? Act on complaints? Pay bounties--if you report a workplace and it results in deportations, you get a reward? I really don't know.
Regardless, Democrats and progressives must accept the fact that we need a system of enforceable laws and that likely means that some folks who have been able to gain entry and work will no longer be able to do so. Whether that's good or bad is irrelevant. It is reality.
Texas, Colorado, California, Arizona, New Mexico were part of Mexico for a long time before we took them. I think we lose when we send hard working honest people back to their home countries especially those who grew up here and are culturally American. We should be cultivating a culture of benevolence with our poorer neighbors and it would greatly benefit us to help all young people get as much education as they desire before they return to their home countries.
1
Spain used to belong to the Caliphate.
The Turks ruled over the Balkans for years. They aren't giving back Istanbul to the Greeks anytime soon. And so on.
There's not a single nation in the Western Hemisphere that wasn't created via some combination of European invasion and settlement, African enslavement, and Indigenous dispossession and/or genocide. Not one.
Most groups on the planet can make revanchist claims of one sort or another. That doesn't make those claims legitimate arguments for illegal immigration.
23
The United States did not get Texas from Mexico. Texas was an independent republic when it joined the United States, Texas was not part of the Mexican Cession of 1848, which gave California, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico and parts of Colorado and Utah to the United States, but they had not been part of Mexico for a long time. They were part of Mexico from 1820 to 1848, a period of 28 years.
13
So, Texas WAS part of Mexico once. Texans apparently don't like to be reminded of that.
It is time to stop the hypocrisy of this greedy for slave-wage immigrant labor motivated fantasy, that all the money in the world 1% advertisers give to the NY Times and its stable of propagandists to run stories like this! All the 6 billion from the hyper corrupt run by oligarchs and dictators failed states can't come here to find their "Dreams". Its time for the rest of the world to build their "dreams" where they are. Let the cherry-picked 'hero' victims featured in this story work, demonstrate and it necessary pick up a gun and fight to make Mexico a decent place to live as opposed to invading the USA and subverting what we have left of the "everyone there obeys the law" rule of law. Well ... everyone obeys the law here except for 12-20 million illegals, and the tens of 1000's of organized crime businesses that employ them - pay them cash under table, don't pay employment related taxes, obey worker safety and health regulations, and the corrupt gov workers who give out gov benefits paid for by tax paying citizens that are not supposed to be given to not much tax paying foreigners. And then there are the many citizens who have turned to crime because of 50 years of wage killing flooding of our labor markets with desperate "compliant" immigrants. And interestingly none of this is going to matter pretty soon because the US is now almost as corrupt, violent and impoverished as the failed state societies that our 1% imports 10-15 million low-wage slaves from every decade.
53
Wow! What a comment!.
2
The fundamental contradiction at the heart of this article is glaring. These migrants say they love the U.S. because the rule of law is respected here. The authors laud their appreciation of the rule of law and love of American customs. Yet these same authors condemn enforcement of the rule of law when it comes to immigration. It is this fundamental contradiction that cost Democrats the election. You can't choose which laws to enforce--we must enforce all our laws, whether they be environmental laws providing for clean water and air, labor laws protecting vulnerable workers, or immigration laws. We can discuss changing those laws through the democratic process. But I have yet to hear a winning political argument saying that anyone who wants to live in the U.S. should be allowed to come here and stay, no questions asked. As such, as a country where the rule of law is paramount, deportation of undocumented immigrants is and will remain a justifiable and necessary action by the federal government.
43
Democrats will continue to lose elections because they care more for illegals than Americans and they want open borders.
29
@NYC Dweller - Very true. Even ultraliberal Justin Trudeau commented that "Canada is a nation of laws" in response to the high number of illegals leaving the US to request asylum in Canada. Of course, he created that situation by saying Canada welcomes you in response to the travel ban.
1
That is hardly the fundamental contradiction that cost them the election; that contradiction was the lawlessness and corruption of the Obama administration and its secretary of state. Only now we are discovering that this corruption an distain for our laws spread well beyond her agency, far, wide, and up.
3
"They reminisce about living in a country governed by the rule of law."
You mean the law they broke by coming here illegally?
47
Don't be silly, some like to cherry pick which laws they like to abide by.
10
I think you should all go to jail for life for the crimes you committed when you were five years old. The entire country will be far better off with fewer morons on the loose.
The reason our immigration policy has been broken all these years, is because those here illegally can be used to get people like Donald Trump elected to office. Reagan made it illegal to hire illegals 40 years ago, and then didn't enforce it. We need to face the fact that illegals are a convenient political football for those seeking to appear 'strong on borders', and for that reason we may never have appropriate and enforceable laws dealing with immigration.
For the same reason, you can expect the 'War on Terror' to go on forever. I recall when 'islamic terrorists' blew up some Moscow apartment buildings years ago. One of those 'terrorists' now leads Russia and will be meeting with our President soon.
4
No, LBJ and Democrats in 1965 decided to break down the U.S. with their new immigration and nationality law, repealing the fantastic laws the nation had from 1930-1965. What resulted has been a flood of 70 million legal immigrants + chain migration relatives, as well as at the very least 30 million illegals.
1
It is important to remember that all the issues, problems and moral dilemmas surrounding illegal immigration have their genesis in illegal actions by foreign nationals. Once again, New York Times attempts to normalize illegal immigration and argues for open borders if our immigrations laws were enforced effectively none of these issues and moral dilemmas whatever arise.
37
Is it too much to ask for Mexicans to have a Mexican dream? Or what Trump actually correct in describing their country and others like it in the foul, derogatory way he did? Think about it.
29
I've thought about it. Trump wasn't right on anything.
1
I will start listening to all the anti-immigrant "rule-of-law" people when those hiring improperly documented workers are thrown into prison for a few years. No exceptions. The CEO's and Boards of Directors should not be excluded from the law. Throw a few thousand people in jail and you'll see real reform.
There will never be a serious solution to U.S. immigration problems until the demand side of the equation is dealt with as harshly as with those who come and stay illegally.
12
Not anti anything except people that jump lines and knowingly break laws. Abide by and obey our laws and you are welcome. Break those laws and we will promptly give you the boot.
4
If there were 10 or 100 of them one would say OK. But 12 million, and more millions on the way? At which point, Messrs Isaacs and Preston, will you say enough?
41
The US has a declining birthrate. These young people were educated here. It could only help our aging population to have them contribute and pay taxes here.
5
To the poor people who have been abused by our president and many of our citizens: I am so sorry for your trouble. I don't know what has possessed the voters, in this country, but I assure you, millions of us are trying very hard to fix this problem, in the face of overwhelming odds. We were complacent, and now we are all paying for it. I wish you luck, and hope you will believe that millions of us never wanted this to happen to you.
3
Speak for yourself. President Trump in 2020
17
NYC--You must feel all alone in the City, kinda like Dershowitz, on Martha's vineyard. Shunned, are we? :-P~~~
ChesBay....Hear that sound in the background? That's the dulcet tones of violins playing.
We are no longer buying into these sob stories that the Times run daily. My eyes are dry for those that condone lawbreakers. Enjoy the symphony.
4
Reading the endless stream of mean-spirited, jingoist, xenophobic and sanctimonious 'obey the law' comments posted here leaves me sick to my stomach.
This has become a nation of resentful, hate-fueled, 'draw up the bridge' descendants of relatively recent immigrants, most of whom would never have been allowed entry here under the immigration and deportation regime they now advocate; and most of whom were similarly reviled and scapegoated when they arrived here originally.
Trump's own grandfather was a lily-livered draft dodger, a poorly educated barber from Germany, who came here to avoid conscription and then made himself a small pile of money running saloons, gambling houses and brothels near rough mining camps in the American and Canadian Pacific Northwest.
White America has become like one big frat house, where every current member has survived a vicious, humiliating hazing and is bent on subjecting every 'newbie' to the same brutality. Or like a nation of abused children, now grown up, who become even worse abusers than their own parents.
We are demonizing and criminalizing people who are just like our own parents, grandparents and great grandparents, most of whom came here with nothing, fleeing famine, war, persecution, or just chasing a dream. The latest immigrants do most of our dirty work, just like most of our own ancestors did as new American immigrants. And they hope to raise children who will grow up to have better lives.
Nothing criminal about it.
9
You are absolutely wrong. Most Americans came here either (a) before there was any legal immigration system or (b) through Ellis Island when there most certainly was. And, very importantly, any immigrant who came to this country before about 1950 lived and prospered or starved and died with no negative impact whatsoever, because, you see, there were no taxpayer paid for entitlement programs back then.
Not so now. We have had a legal immigration system for over 100 years. We now have an expensive array of entitlement programs and, therefore, an even greater vested interest in an immigration system that only admits people who can support themselves and their families.
Even during the heyday of Ellis Island, we screened incoming immigrant candidates. If they had the wrong kind of illness, if they were deemed slow or mentally defective, if they were deemed likely to become a public charge, they were sent back.
35
The U.S. has had legal immigration - and thus illegal immigration - ever since the 1790s. Yes, there were laws even then. ::sigh::
The pro-immigrant crowd needs to read a history book and freshen up on just how heated the politics were more than 200 years ago on limiting and controlling the enormous inflow of poor illiterates, who often were also the sick, mentally ill or criminal jettisoned by Europe.
1
Don’t despair, Chambolle. Most of the deplorables who come out of the woodwork on these occasions, are bots and trolls run from Vladivostok. The best approach, is to report them and otherwise ignore them. Do not feed the trolls. That just puts money in their pocket. After all, they get paid per hit.
PS I wish I could recommend your comment a thousand times.
1
Glad they haven't given up their hopes for a better life. I hope they make it for themselves in Mexico.
44
We have a story like this for only one reason: through several administrations, both parties, this country failed to enforce its immigration laws, creating a huge, lawless, mess.
The fact that illegal "immigrants" liked it here, wish they were still here, is not too surprising. People all over the world would feel the same way if they could walk here or get a visa to overstay.
While it's true that, as illegal "immigrants", they wouldn't have been eligible for Welfare and SNAP, they may well have had kids while in the US and these would be US citizens, thanks to the continuing lunacy of Birthright Citizenship. They would have been eligible and most likely collecting the full array of entitlements. In fact, the US taxpayer, through the Medicaid program, undoubtedly paid for the maternity benefits.
The purpose of a law, any law, is to instill fear. Fear of getting caught, fear of consequences. We have so many illegal "immigrants" because there was so little law enforcement, illegal "immigrants" had no fear and told a lot of others they need not fear either. The result is a large scofflaw ecosystem of illegal "immigrants", their enablers and supporters, wink wink employers, etc.
Trump/Sessions are starting to enforce the law. Doing so with a lot of publicity will begin to change the messaging from "get in and you can stay and work" to "the US has a formal immigration system and its laws WILL be enforced."
57
If I got on a plane to 'visit the UK' and overstayed my tourist visa (which I believe is 6 months) I would have every expectation that the immigration authorities would remove me from the UK. FYI, this exact same situation happened to two college educated acquaintances of mine, who overstayed their welcome in the UK.
All countries have rules on illegal and legal immigration. If you don't obey the law and migrate to a country illegally, or are rejected to legally immigrate to another country but go there anyway, the laws of that country allows for your removal. Its that simple.
If there were only a couple of billion of people on the planet, this wouldn't be so dramatic but with our planets shrinking resources due to human overpopulation, the plight of migrants flowing out of their poorly managed countries by the millions and into regions and countries where they aren't welcome, and is destablizing the West.
FYI, I'm also a pro-choice progressive who believes in legal immigration and world-wide population control.
64
FYI: You bring up an important point the fringe left never want to talk about: the 100 million 3rd worlders that poured into the U.S. since the mid-1970s are mostly Catholic latinos + Catholic and evangelical Africans. Geez, can't imagine why American women and girls keep having the stress of not only violent physical crime to deal with but also the misogyny of the Catholic and evangelical anti-abortion flotsam.
1
The vast majority of Cubans who enter the country illegaly thru Mexico just like all the others yet Trump ans the Republicans gave no problem with this.
There is a little known program called " THE CUBAN FAMILY REUNIFICATION PAROLE PROGRAM".
"Created in 2007, the Cuban Family Reunification Parole (CFRP) Program allows certain eligible U.S. citizens and lawful permanent residents to apply for parole for their family members in Cuba. If granted parole, these family members may come to the United States without waiting for their immigrant visas to become available. Once in the United States, CFRP Program beneficiaries may apply for work authorization while they wait to apply for lawful permanent resident status" It remains in effect today.
Of course we all know Trump doesn't play politics.
8
America's problem with Cuban immigration, teeing up the 2007 nightmare of a law, was in the 1980s, when Castro purposefully ejected to the open armed U.S. many of its most violent felons and mentally ill via the Mariel con job. The U.S. has endangered and thrown its own people under the wheels of the global bus for the better part of 50 years and is finally stopping some of that.
2
What about those who immigrate legally? It's a slap in the face to them, no?
59
You can talk to hundreds more. And if you like, 4 billion more, all of whom would like to come here.
Fortunately, we have a process for immigrating legally = so they can stand in line with the rest.
55
More emotive self-serving pathos from the Neo-Marxists. My Sicilian grandfather was never deported after arriving nor was my Norwegian grandmother--both had visas--legal entry.
Time to deport all illegals--period. There's a line; get in it.
50
Yeah, sure - visas that they overstayed. Too bad they weren’t deported. By your lights, YOU should be deported. Actually, I agree with that 100%. Just think how much better off the country would be without you and your ill-making ilk.
Wow, that was pretty mean and rude--both became citizens in 1925. But that's okay--one of his sons was at Pearl Harbor and later won two Distinguished Flying Crosses flying in 1943-44 with the 56th Fighter Group. Then one of his sons was a Marine Lt. in Vietnam. But you Neo-Marxists don't believe in either citizenship or sovereignty. Must be too close to Canada.
I read the news every day in English, German, French and Spanish. This regime and its deplorable supporters are making me angrier and angrier for everyi passing day. My disdain but also my hate are growing. I am sure that I am not alone. Where will this lead us?
2
You are free to hate. But why roil in the Florida sun when you can commiserate with other anti-Americans in Mexico, Nicaragua or Venezuela?
3
I'm sorry but there is a way to become a legal immigrant. Get in line like the others. If not then get deported. I usually vote Democrat every year but with this talk of the Democrats want to ban ICE I will vote Republican without hesitation as will every other Democrat I know.
44
'We must remain a country of laws,' you say.
That's something you might remind the current White House and its cabinet members, who thus far have shown nothing but disrespect for our laws and those who enforce them - other than their 'deportation squad.' Who thus far have done everything possible to eliminate, by executive fiat, laws they and their cronies find inconvenient - like consumer protection and environmental protection laws and key provisions of the ACA.
How is it this worship of 'the rule of law' and of 'strict enforcement' only comes into play when they mean subjugation of the vulnerable, the poor, the immigrant - and becomes a mere inconvenience, readily sidestepped, when it might be applied to the privileged and entitled?
Ah yes, let's pardon Joe Arpaio, a fine man. Let's pity poor Paul Manafort, a liar, a thief, a cheat and likely a traitor - but a 'player' and a dapper white guy in an expensive suit.
Just save your piety and sanctimony for someone else. I'm not buying it.
5
The writers could have made their case more persuasively if they hadn't given us such a saccharin coated fairy tale filled with impossibly angelic innocents. This reads like "The Bobbsey Twins and the Curse of the Mean Old Racists."
41
The author seems ignorant of the fact that
it you sneak into a country - you are an ILLEGAL immigrants..All the people this article is crying over are ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.
I am sorry but I think ALL ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS should be deported. No mass amnesty. Just deportation. And the passage of laws like E-VERIFY which help employers determine the legality of their employees.
Instead of a sob story about illegal immigrants, why don't you write about Appalachia, and the poverty and help needed there.
41
YES! This is why we no longer subscribe to the NYT and in the mornings no longer listen the National Public Radio. Beginning with Obama's election, it's been years since NPR has summoned the editorial ability to do any stories on, you know, the nation we refer to as the U.S. or anyone who isn't black or a latino immigrant.
4
On a recent 97 degree day with the sun beating down. I saw a group of men trailing a loud truck and heaving disgusting garbage into it. Aha, says I, must be a group of men doing the jobs Americans won’t do.
Thinking this a good chance to practice my Spanish, I engaged them in conversation. How surprised was I to discover that they were all Americans, mostly white.
I’ve searched through all the NY Times editorials - but I still can’t figure it out.
47
Not interested in their sad stories about having gone to school here, which I paid for, by the way. Both their education and probably the free breakfasts and lunches all these illegals qualify for, and probably their families food stamps as well. They're illegal. They don't belong here. We're not the world's doormat anymore.
45
Mexico doesn't "send" us it's people, the best or the worst. They make their own choice to come. But my experience with many immigrants is that by the time make it here and figure out how to make a life, they are among the best of us all, if by best you mean hard-working people who value family (and often religion) and stay focused and dedicated to their dreams. And manage not to add nearly as many of themselves to the opioid statistics than white, native-born Americans.
9
We could all make better lives for ourselves if the money we make from all our hard work did not have to contribute to the general welfare.
Pursuing the 'American Dream' should never be about ignoring laws inconvenient to one's own self gain let alone without consequence.
Why should illegal migrants be exempt from the laws, costs and responsibilities of society while citizens are prosecuted for violating the same?
37
Many immigrants come to this country because they are offered jobs with American employers for more money than they can make in their home country. The American businesses meanwhile are saving money, making a profit, and benefiting their bottom line without the consequences you refer to in your comment. Meanwhile, in Washington we have a cabal totally focused on their monetary gains while ignoring the laws you and I follow, and no one in Congress blinks. We are, as a country, enforcing laws with a heavy hand on some, while ignoring the scofflaws who wield the heaviest hand.
3
Boo hoo. The American Dream is not to lie, cheat, and steal and get away with it.
Why not do a series of articles on the hundreds of thousands of immigrants who applied and were granted entry, residency, and ultimately citizenship?
Why not do a series of investigative reporting and document life in the places where, Central Americans requesting asylum claim, everyone is daily in danger because of who or what they are?
How about an article on American citizens who are struggling? Can’t muster the sympathy to implore people to assist US citizens?
How about some even-handed reporting?
55
I think it's because immigrants who are asking for asylum are being turned away at our borders, so there are few to write articles about. Most of the people trying to cross our southern border are fleeing terrible conditions in Central America, but are being turned away by CBP. We are no longer taking refugees from other countries either. And I have seen multiple articles on American citizens who are struggling, but politicians don't seem to care about them.
1
it's interesting that the authors didn't see the irony of reporting that the returnees long for living in a "country governed by the rule of law"... "where the police can't be bribed, and people obey the law". Yes, that is exactly what we citizens want to protect when we support the removal of people who have first broken the immigration laws, then the employment laws, not to mention the requirements around driving, and etc. It is more convenient to label us "haters", "racists" and "xenophobes". Beautiful and charming as it is to visit Mexico, most Americans don't want to live like that.
46
I'm really tired of diatribe after diatribe lamenting the poor immigrant, story after story, about how they feel american,
how they struggle, how they're "immigrants" not "illegals". Rarely a story about how Americans struggle, especially black Americans and how they are affected by the impact illegal immigration has on our legal system, hospitals, schools, and jobs. These stories are found in Breitbart and the Drudge Report. This is how we get the real picture. Sorry mainstream media, you can't control the narrative anymore, the secret is out, you are the enemy of the people, and Trump knows it and says it. Illegal immigration is not fair, and Americans see it, are angry about it, it's the number one voting issue and they fought back by voting in Trump and will keep voting Trump and Republican. Sayonara.
45
Does anybody notice how the vocabulary about immigration---legal immigration in particular---has morphed in the liberal mainstream media? In the 2008 primary campaign, Obama and Clinton spoke of illegal aliens, or "illegal immigrants." At some point later in the Obama administration they became "undocumented immigrants." Now it is common to refer to them and all other immigrants as "migrants." So if you are against people illegally entering the country, as most Americans do, you are seem to be anti-immigrant in general, and therefore an ally of Trump. This will surely backfire in the coming elections. People who simply believe that the U.S. Legal Code should be enforced are being lumped in with racists and xenophobes. They naturally resent this insult, and insulting people is no way to get their votes.
54
Yes, I have noticed. Now, they are rapists, animals, drug cartel members, gang related, murderers, and soon sub-human. This according to the president. Do you wonder why America is split on this issue? Once you are not human, one can be put in a cage, starting with babies and children, or am I wrong?
2
If a person is here, without authorization, then they have broken the law. They are criminals. This isn't rocket science. There is no justification for authors to say these folks are not criminals.
You are blatantly lying when you write that. It is not true.
I understand that many of these people miss living in a country with the rule of law and equal application. I miss it too. I miss it every time I read one of these guilt-trip pieces.
The law applies to everyone and it applies equally. It applies to rich and poor. It applies to people with sad stories here illegally.
No one is a criminal if we just ignore all their criminal acts.
Garbage piece.
37
The writers obviously ignore the true facts of life especially ignoring that all countries have a border for a reason. Do the authors approve of a open border here please admit? if so our country would be so over run with foreigners our country would be like a sinking Titanic. Just because their errant parents sneaked across the border years ago doesn't negate the illegality of it and is a major reason why myself a lifelong JFK Democrat voted for Trump and will vote Republican from now on.
63
Larry,
Take a look at the Census data for the counties in Texas along the Mexican border. Their per capita income is so low, it looks like the real border with Mexico was moved a 100 miles north while no one was paying attention.
8
Exactly the hard hitting, policy based, statistics driven piece you'd expect from two Haverford profs. Thus we learn salient information to advance the immigration debate like this: one deportee had an arrangement with his neighbors -- they’d bring the avocados, he’d make the dip.
Now that the professors have appealed to my compassion in a cloyingly manipulative manner, while misleadingly suggesting that the 200 people interviewed all grew up in the U.S. and were cruelly deported because they ran red lights, I am wondering one thing:
Did these Haverford profs interview any of the 2.5 million people deported by our last President? Or were those record number of deportations somehow less cruel because those immigrants lacked the guacamole and dip bonhomie with their neighbors?
Lastly, I love the irony lost on these educators when they freely write that the deportees love America, in part, because it is a country “where people obey rules.”
I guess the conclusions of this puff piece (by professors who are educating the next generation no less) are twofold: (1) immigration laws can be broken if you make guacamole with your neighbors, and (2) Mexico is increasingly a place where openmindedness and generosity are valued, in contrast to American society which is filled with aggression and prejudice. Got it.
46
We either have control over our borders or we do not.
America cannot take in everyone in the world who wishes to come here.
Which means when you arrive here illegally, disregarding the laws for immigration, you most likely ought to be deported.
40
I wonder if Trump's mother and paternal grandparents had a sponsor when they immigrated to America. Doubtful. They arrived from Europe, not Mexico, and therein lies the difference according to the current and extraordinarily racist administration.
4
Actually, the Trump grandfather was evicted from Germany his native home for desertion. Upon marriage to a German woman who was very homesick he pleaded with the German King to be accepted again to no avail however. You may find the original letter at harpers-org-archive-the-emigrants
1
Words are funny things...leave just one out--and it can change an argument completely. Leave out several, or add one that doesn't belong--and we've got a propaganda piece. Witness Ms. Isaacs propaganda piece.
Just a few thoughts...
They 're not "Americans"--not in the sense that they're U.S. citizens. They are citizens of some other country, not this one. And crossing our border without permission is illegal. They can dream all they want--but they're not entitled to the "American Dream". That is reserved for OUR citizens.
They're not "migrants" or "immigrants"--as innocent as that may sound. They're citizens of some other country, illegally invading a sovereign nation. Let's not mince words--they illegal aliens--and by that definition, they're criminals. Sorry.
The inscription on the Statue of Liberty says, "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free..."
It does not say, cross our borders illegally and:
--fill up our schools with your children and let us educate them for free.
--fill up our hospitals--and hand your unpaid bills to the American taxpayer.
--fill up our prisons with your drug dealers, gang members and human traffickers, and let us pay to feed and house them.
--Steal our identities and take our jobs--the ones meant for OUR citizens, then work for less and depress the wage scale for those at the bottom-those who really need a raise.
Trump is deporting criminals--just like Obama did. Deal with it.
38
Oh enough already!
(1) All of these deportees did NOT grow up in the US. The majority of deportees sneaked in as adults - and yeah that means anyone over age 18 +/-.
(2) Hogwash that they only speak "broken" Spanish. If they don't know Spanish, they could not talk to their parents! (And adult illegal migrants aren't exactly known for being fluent in English. All the stories - NYT, LAT, WaPo - with an interview with an adult illegal who sneaked in seem to always involve a translator)
(3) This is jaw-dropping:
"Yet the vast majority contrast the crime, corruption and lawlessness that pervades Mexico with the safety they felt in the United States, a place they describe as one ..... “where people obey rules”
Well yeah but that does NOT include the deportees who did NOT OBEY the rules about immigration.
How weird - they BREAK the rules of the US everyday by being here and they bemoan that their country is not like the US were "people obey rules"
Guess they will fit right into their own country - they do NOT obey rules either.
(4) So they are deported to THEIR OWN country where they have the legal right to live and where the language is the language of their parents and family..... Better position than
(a) their parents who did not speak the language in the US and who sneaked in and neither they or their parents had the right to be here; or
(b) when they sneaked into the US and did not have the right to be here and not knowing the language
38
If the Democrats ever take over, they must invite these deported people back and grant them immediate citizenship. Financial aid for those who can't get their jobs back would be good too.
And it’s this type of logic that will keep Democrats in the minority for the foreseeable future.
14
Start jailing those who employ illegal aliens. Much cheaper than a wall, eh Trump? You can be first in the clink, after you've repealed the Statute of Limitations, for the time you employed illegal Polish workers on that architectural monstrosity called Trump Tower.
No work prospects because US employers would be terrified of the consequences means no more illegal aliens.
Problem solved.
15
Apprehend, Detain, and Deport ALL illegal border crossers.
Build the wall.
Support ICE.
29
Even Donald Trump hopes for leniency for his crimes.
Why can't we show it to those who have worked so hard to find a place in our society? Yes they broke the law and we should continue to deport those who flagrantly continue to do so and those who plan to come over illegally in the future.
But we should create a path to citizenship for those who have earned it and deport the rest. If breaking the law at one time or another would be the criterion for citizenship then most of us would be deported.
Why have we allowed American businesses and American citizens to employ these immigrants? For years we have looked the other way so that they can do what no American wants to do for cheap. Then we dehumanize them calling them all criminals. Americans who employ these people should be held accountable first. They are the criminals.
No one would want to come here if Americans can do their own work. We should clean our bathrooms, pluck our strawberries, take care of own elderly, write our own code, and produce more doctors and engineers. Start with Trump hotels and Ivanka's goods.
I am sick and tired of reading one sided arguments. From both sides. Of course we are a country of laws and we should secure our border. We should also not be hypocrites.
I wish both sides will be more nuanced in their arguments.
7
It is the dream of almost every poor person in the world to come to the US. That means, estimating conservatively, hundreds of millions of people, perhaps even approaching a billion.
That is obviously far more than we could ever absorb, much less afford, without totally changing the nature and culture of our country and bankrupting us in the process.
We cannot afford (or choose not) to support our own citizens: the poor, the ill, elderly, disabled, veterans, et al. It is therefore utterly impossible for US taxpayers to support the millions of foreigners who would like to come to the US. (This was also true during the two terms of President Obama.)
US laws allow foreigners (aliens) to seek entry and citizenship. Those who do not follow these laws are in this country illegally (i.e., illegal aliens) and should be detained and deported; this is policy in other countries, too.
The cruelty lies not in limiting legal immigration, or detaining and deporting illegal aliens, or forcing those who wish to enter the US to wait for processing. What is cruel, unethical and probably illegal is encouraging parents to bring their children on the dangerous trek to US borders and teaching them how to game the system to enter the US by falsely claiming asylum, persecution, abuse, etc.
Abolishing ICE makes sense only to advocates of open borders, a policy no nation will ever approve. We will lose the mid-terms and 2020 elections if open borders becomes part of the Democratic platform.
21
In the context of this article, all that is necessary to avoid deportation, is to enter this country legally.
Zero sympathy.
22
These young people forced to go to Mexico are Americans, regardless of what Donald Trump and the rest of the xenophobic bigots in the Republican Party call them.
Beyond the injustice done to the deported people, the waste to the United States of losing such talented, good young men and women is enormous.
2
There is nothing wrong with living in Mexico.
You forgot to mention how these individuals knowingly broke the law by illegally crossing the U.S. border. If I commit a crime I would go to jail. The same should apply to non-citizens who commit a crime.
25
Perhaps if our political leaders assisted other nations to upgrade their standard of living and establish democracy those who seek whatever asylum here would remain in their home countries.
As it is our political leaders have, throughout both our North American and neighboring South American continents, established and/or assisted less than benign dictators who benefit the wealthy both here and in the exploited nations.
Here at home we have always been a bit xenophobic and certainly prejudiced against people of darker pigmentation.
We have driven the native inhabitants from their ancestral homes and stolen people of African nations using weapons and our military while justifying our onslaught under the thin veil of religion.
If there is any characteristic which has remained steadfast with us, it is our hypocrisy.
There have been times when we have shown real spirit and determination when our "better angels" have ruled, but far to many times we have spoken with a forked tongue and accepted those with a forked tail to do our business, no matter how dirty.
We may still be the most militarily and economically powerful nation in the world, but when men under the sanctimonious guise of distorted morality deny women or any person basic personal human rights we besmirch the very flag which our President so ostentatiously soils with his embrace.
This is the same geographic nation in which I was raised, but it is by no means the same to which I pledged my allegiance
1
Straw man argument. If the premise of a piece like this is "iffy, " then whatever follows is a waste of everyone' s time.
Take this: "To hear the Trump administration talk about the immigrants it has deported back to Mexico, you would think they were all criminals and potential drains on the nation’s economy and welfare system, with no interest in participating in what used to be called the American dream."
Two points:
1. Not "all"--but without vetting, we don't know who the criminals and potential drains are, do we? That is one basic reason we insist upon LEGAL (vetted) immigration.
2. Supply and demand. What do you think employers do when they can't find labor to fill their jobs? They raise the pay. Flood the nation with cheaper labor--or even equal labor--and the employers don't have to compete for it because supply outstrips demand. It occurs to me for the first time that many readers have never studied basic eonomic, so allow me to summarize the supply/demand chart: as supply goes up, demand goes down; as demand goes up, supply goes down. As more jobs are created and supply of labor remains stable, salaries have to go up; but if supply of labor keeps growing, it does not have to go up.
25
Sounds like you are an advocate of higher wages. Me too. Do you support the $15 minimum? What about companies like Walmart raising wages and providing enough hours and consistency to lift people out of poverty? Many conservatives object to those things on the grounds that it will raise prices, or cause businesses to have to hire fewer workers. Do those objections not apply any more when we are talking about raising wages via the removal of a large pool of cheap labor?
3
Just as the goal of social policy should be to lift all people up, so international trade agreements should strive to lift all nations to the same level of economic productivity and governmental efficacy. Why doesn't NAFTA address disparities in wages between Canada and the US, on the one hand, and Mexico on the other? Why don't we use policy to "sway" corrupt governments to reform, to mandate the creation of labor unions, etc. I know, I know, we don't even do that here. Still, there's very little discussion about how trade agreements can address international disparities in labor markets; the emphasis is always on the benefits for corporations.
1
If you enter the country through legal means and at legal ports of entry you are not a criminal. If you enter the country through illegal means you have committed a crime and are thus a criminal. Not rocket science here. The writers failed to make this distinction in the first paragraph of their commentary.
The children's parents made a decision to break our laws by entering this country illegally. They new the risks and consequences if caught. Any pain or hardship the parents created for their children is completely the responsibility of the parent. Not ICE. Not Trump. Not the citizens and legal immigrants of the country.
Accepting responsibility for ones own actions may be a foreign concept to many in the US these days, but it is still a core value of our society.
58
The illegality of an immigrant's status is an artificial construct that has been established just during my adult lifetime. This distinction of illegality can also be reversed. I tend to look upon laws as being established to prevent harm from being imposed on someone. Immigration laws that make it a crime to pass over a border do not do that. These laws create a crime where no real threat exists. I am unsure of what it is that makes some people so afraid of immigration. Historically it has been the life blood of our country.
5
The “illegality of an immigrant’s status” is not an artificial construct - it is a reality. It is also a reality that is not about to change anytime soon.
it is not for individuals to determine which laws are to be honored. This is the law. By the way, Separation is also the law; and you don't like that either. But that law was established by a Democrat administration when it settled the Flores litigation in 1997 and Janet Reno signed it. Shall each of us go about giving our own opinions as to which laws should be obeyed and which are "legitimate" or shall we consider the chaos that this approach would bring? It is your opinion that "no threat exists," but not everyone else's--which is a major reason why Trump was elected: working people saw the threat, understood the threat, and voted to stop the threat that they perceived: too much labor supply, competing for the same jobs more cheaply.
1
The writing here makes Mexico sound like some third world country. As if crossing the border was like disappearing into some post-apocalyptic wasteland from "Mad Max."
My spouse lived in Oaxaca for a time. This description doesn't match with the experiences I've heard about. Children still play outside. I can tell you there are areas of New Jersey where I feel more unsafe than anywhere I know in Mexico. Avoid the rough spots but let's not get too nostalgic. Mexico's economy is right up there with Australia. They're doing okay.
I can understand being disoriented and homesick if you were just forcefully relocated to a foreign country. However, the opinions expressed are rather insulting to Mexicans.
49
Andy, where are you getting this? I re-read the article, and can't find any references to Mexico like you describe! No one is saying that. If you had to take the next plane to Guatemala, Andy: You'd struggle, not because it's a hellhole, but because it's a fracture and you miss your home. Sheesh, way to comment about something the article didn't say!!
1
"Yet the vast majority contrast the crime, corruption and lawlessness that pervades Mexico with the safety they felt in the United States, a place they describe as one 'where police can’t be bribed,' 'where people obey rules' and 'where kids can play safely outside.'"
Yes, I know most of what there is to know about Mexico because I visited Oaxaca. It's safe there! So when some tourist from overseas travels to the US and visits NYC and Disneyworld they pretty have all the info they need to understand what it's like to live in Kansas, right? After all, both NYC and Kansas are the US.
3
"They enact practices and values they acquired in the United States, notably volunteerism, a custom foreign to many Mexicans but “something we all learned to do in the United States,” Mr. Concha explains."
That may be true of some of the deportees, but when I lived in Mexico in 2013, most of the people returning brought back something far more nefarious: gangs. I lived in a small fishing village, that had also become a tourist destination. Everyone in town knew the returnees, they started their own bar, they dressed well and had tattoos and everyone knew to avoid the places they hung out in, because trouble could start at any time. In a way they became outcasts, but they had nice clothes and appealed to the kids in the village. Many of the gangs in Central America and Mexico started in the barrios and jails of Los Angeles, where disaffected immigrants started them. It's very nice to put a picture of a handsome young man, who may have played on your kid's ball team, on the page accompanying this article, but that isn't the whole story. But, this story is never covered by the NYT. Yes, they all want return to the US, but in the year I was in Mexico, the main reason they were deported, was because they got in trouble with the law. Many had been deported numerous times and still somehow ended up arrested. They were all regretful, not that they broke the law, but that they got caught.
57
What counts is the legal system, the government structure, and the level of corruption. What individuals may do or not do cannot affect that whole when it is entrenched trouble.
2
The gangs were an export when the U.S. was deporting gang members, under Obama. MS13 helped extend its reach by deportation.
Under Trump, they're deporting people whose only crime is being undocumented.
1
This '"undocumented" line of argument always reminds me of the old days when men actually courted and tried to seduce women, who wanted to be married, not seduced. It would be midnight, a lovely summer evening, the stars would be burning brightly, the smell of jasmine would linger in the air, and front seats of cars did not have consoles--and the man would say to the young girl: 'Why do we need a piece of paper? We know we love each other."
You are saying the same thing, in effect: "It's just a piece of paper--a mere 'document.' It doesn't mean anything. Why should an immigrant need a piece of paper when we know we love each other?"
"Undocumented," Michael, means that an alien has not been invited to live here, has not been vetted, and has not even been interviewed in depth by any official of our government. The idea that anyone and everyone--sane and insane; honest and criminal; healthy and sick; pregnant and not pregnant; educated and uneducated, skilled and unskilled, sex trafficker or terrorist, etc., should be able to walk into this country, willy-nilly, with no controls, is to my mind an irresponsible view at
best, and a dangerous one at worst.
PS: The marriage certificate entitled the woman to a host of legal rights, not least among them was support in case of divorce with young children, and inheritance rights. it was not then, and is not now, "just a piece of paper." Neither are immigration documents.
Several commenters have railed at the need for America to follow the rule of law. They complain all the immigrants who entered did so illegally in most cases.
But Americans are often schizophrenic when it comes to consistency. Those who decry abortion and claim to fight for a right to life let children languish in poverty and also support the death penalty. The deaths of children before the age of one are twice as common among communities of color. American Catholics revere both the Church and the availability of contraception.
And those who scream loudest about the rule of law in immigration stand mute when environmental regulations are squashed and scream "Witch Hunt!" when money laundering and self-dealing at the top of government are suggested.
Sure, let's restore the rule of law. All laws, including those which enable the plutocracy to maintain its stranglehold on we of the precariat.
8
If you're so concerned about the environment, it's hypocritical not to oppose the expansion of our carbon footprint through immigration.
7
Moving a person from one country to another does little to increase the earth's carbon footprint. One of the largest carbon expenditures is the energy used to grow, transport and prepare our food, made all the worse by the USA's huge food waste (1/2 of all produce is discarded). FYI, a Mexican diet has among the least food waste on the planet. They have much to teach us if we are willing to learn.
I think this is a valuable article to show us the human, real life results of policies that are incoherent and many times cruel. Yes, I hear all the words from those hand wringers who say, "but they broke the law!" So did Sheriff Joe Arpaio but I don't hear these same people upset that he was pardoned. I won't waste space here listing more names that would show the shallowness of that argument. And yes, I agree that if a miracle were to happen and Congress could get its act together and come up with a sane, practical , humane and fair immigration policy things might be better, but that is wishing for pigs to fly.
The individuals written about in this story had been, and would have continued to be, productive members of this society. So think about what this country is losing by them NOT being here.
Personally, I do not like what this country is becoming. I think this blind acceptance of the demonizing of people will be ultimately disastrous for us all. And if you insist that the letter of the law must be followed in every case, then remember that the next time you are pulled over for a speeding ticket, or for any other infraction of the law. Don't expect any mercy or leniency, especially if you are not willing to show it to others.
4
Now, how about some interviews with OLDER "Dreamers", such as the 28-year-old DACA studying medicine at Loyola, who came here at age 14. What makes her "so American" at age 18, when she's legally an adult, that she couldn't and shouldn't return to her homeland, Mexico? She's STILL spent half of her life, the first, formative half, IN MEXICO. (Most DACAs, about 3/4, are from Mexico.) And doesn't MEXICO need its citizens, especially educated ones, to return?
7
It is so much easier to blame all of our national and personal problems on "the other" who cannot point the finger back at our own failures.
Americans demand illegal drugs to the tune of $10-Billion/year. Americans don't want most of the grunt-hard-labor jobs that our nation needs doing - heck a lot of suburban dwellers and their kids don't want to mow the lawn. We also don't want to care for our sick and elderly or for that matter have our children interrupt our careers.
Yes, we can deport all these people but the problems we have will remain.
Most of us, as we mature, come to realize that most of our problems are of our own making. There are some that persist well into their advanced years blaming everyone but themselves.
At 242 years old, it is time for this nation to grow up and realize that we make most of our own problems and that blaming others doesn't make the problem go away.
11
At 242 years old, it is time for this nation to grow up and realize that we make most of our own problems and that blaming others doesn't make the problem go away.
---------------And yet, you're willing and even eager to blame the problems the countries of illegal aliens have ON US. If our drug problem caused the problems of these countries then our near neighbor, Canada, should have them, too. Fact is, the drug cartels and associated violence in Latin America are a SYMPTOM of the underlying corruption and associated poverty and income inequality there. These countries were poor and violent before we even were a country, and still are--despite 17 years of TPS for El Salvador, 19 for Honduras, and assorted other amnesties.
3
Americans take the tough jobs when the pay is right, and the pay will not be right until the over-supply of cheap labor ends. Period. Stop arguing backwards.
9
As with all potential enemies, the other needs to be demonized as the war against them is proclaimed. The idea that the other are people like any of us with hopes and dreams needs to be smashed.
Over the decades and centuries the Irish and Germans, Trump's ancestors were demonized this way, the latter put in concentration camps during the first world war. If Trump had any sense of history he would be grateful for immigrants and have compassion for their struggles. But He and his followers have fought this tooth and nail and expecting compassion from them is like expecting blood from a stone.
5
It's so horrible to see Christians promote sending these children -- some not so young -- back to a country they don't know. Yes, they committed or are complicit in a crime. But so has every Christian committed a crime -- sin. And that sin was forgiven not because of anything they did, but because of a sacrifice made by another. How Christians can't apply the same level of grace to these people -- many who are Christian -- is a travesty of faith.
4
So because everyone sins, no criminals should be punished? And not only should they not be punished, they should be allowed to continue committing the crime?
9
“Sending them back to a country they don’t know”? Really? Have you noticed all those satellite dishes? They broadcast sports and news - largely from Mexico nd Latin America. The internet offers quick and cheap communication globally - and that includes Mexico and countries south of Mexico. It is also a reality that most have relatives living in Mexico too. If they love America so much, they should begin by obeying its laws and immigrate legally. The US admits over a million immigrants annually - legally. More than any country in the world.
6
Why is it horrible
They and/or they and their parents came ILLEGALLY into a country they did not know with a language they did not speak
The injustice and heartlessness of Donald Trump's immigration policy is exceeded only by its folly.
The misery compounded upon misery, unnecesary, unwarranted, and so casual in its indifference to its inhumanity, to the destructive seeds it sows, just widens the stain on our country of past oppressive policies, causing more harm to our nation than any hostile foreign force could.
The people interviewed here are Americans in every way but one. And now, they are without a country.
Oh, but they broke the law, people say. Yes, some did.
And Donald Trump has demonstrated in sharp relief that there are far worse crimes than breaking immigration laws. That by enforcing those laws cruelly and unjustly, he (along with Jeff Sessions and others) has placed himself in service to an oppressive agenda, making a mockery of the law that it is his solemn duty to uphold.
5
People were being deported under President Obama, too.
3
How can you say they are without a country?!! They are now living in the country of which they are citizens. And it's about time!
1
Your article is well appreciated. What a difference, a generous public, able to appreciate immigrant's values, and readily viewing the 'golden rule' as a reflection of their humanity. Not so with those wielding power in government, in the hands of a pluto-kleptocracy headed by Trump and his republican minions, deceitful and so-full-of-themselves it's scary, abusive to no measure, and who conveniently forgot who made this country great, the immigrants (irrespective of their being documented or not). As a country, the U.S. has lost it's spirit, it's solidarity, and the recognition that no chain can be stronger than it's weakest link. Not that we expected any different from a poor rich megalomaniac, insecure and immature, professional liar and crook, named Donald J, Trump. After all, don't you think it foolish to expect decency from someone who so glaringly mocks it?
1
I suspect many of the deportees simply failed to qualify for DACA because of age and date of arrival technicalities. Some have US citizen spouses and children, not to mention siblings. Soon we will be witnessing deportation of people with temporary protected status, again with US citizen spouses and children. Many have lost connection with the countries of their birth. Many send back money, on which they have paid taxes, to support the economies of their birth countries. Now, foreign born military enlistees who were told there was a path to citizenship are being discharged and I suspect deportations will follow, as they already have in some cases.
Most of us are decedents of immigrants and others of slaves and refugees. Few of us are Native Americans. It's a fact some would like to scrub from our collective memory that "give me your tired and your poor" stuff. I am greatly saddened by that because it is part of the fiber that has made us a great nation.
I understand that entry and residence In United States must be governed by a lawful process. But that does eliminate empathy and fairness. I propose that Congress pass laws that will pass Supreme Court scrutiny that takes into account our history and the practical effects of the current deportations.
Let's not forget who we are.
6
Soon we will be witnessing deportation of people with temporary protected status, again with US citizen spouses and children.
-----------------TPS holders can be sponsored for legal permanent residency by US citizen spouse or adult kids. But what's so wrong about TPS holders going home--they were granted TPS as a TEMPORARY measure and have had to renew their work permits, if TPS is allowed to continue, every 2 years or so.
1
I live across the street from a family whose brother and his wife have an autistic child, and have until September 2019 to leave the country and go back to El Salvador (TPS status). They have lived here for over 15 years and are the nicest people. My landscaper told me that a van of people who work for ICE got out while he and his employees were mowing a lawn and asked them for ID. One of the worker did not have the "proper id", and now there are problems for him and my landscaper who is a citizen of the USA and originally from Columbia. I have no issues with people who have been convicted of gang activity, robbery, etc. being deported, but a person who just wants to earn a few bucks mowing lawns? This is horrible. It sickens me that this is happening in our country. This is not my America. I will take action - talking about it means nothing at a certain point.
9
I find it intriguing as many people, many from south of the border are seeking to come here for "a better life", many of us here are looking to emigrate to somewhere else for a better life if the mid-terms go badly for rational Americans. If my Social Security and Medicare disappear and the government (all three branches) remain in Trumplicans hands, we must leave for a better life to someplace that still values democracy and the rule of law.
3
What about the "American Dream" for all those people who have followed the "rule of law" and are sent back to their home country when their H-1B expires, for example?
Do we just let everyone in who wants to come? What other country in the world does that? Name one please? This is why Trump was elected. The vast majority of Americans want our immigration laws enforced in every state, at every border.
68
Let's get serious. Does the U.S. really have the resources to deport 11 million undocumented people or fence a 2,000 mile border? And are American employers taking advantage of cheap illegal immigrant labor ready to abandon this practice? It doesn't look like it. This is a lot rabble-rousing, mainly for political reasons. And now we see in some parts of Trump country, his voters loudly protested having their "illegal immigrants" arrested in the local industries when they work. The story over and over again is that people don't expect the undocumented in their own communities to be deported, just the ones over there. It's laughable, this whole charade. Not one single employer of illegal immigrants has been sent to jail yet. I won't hold my breath.
22
"Does the U.S. really have the resources to deport 11 million undocumented people or fence a 2,000 mile border?"
Yes. Obama claimed to deport hundreds of thousands per year; why can't we up that a bit? And we've already fenced hundreds of miles of the border; of course we can finish the job.
"And are American employers taking advantage of cheap illegal immigrant labor ready to abandon this practice?"
It's clear that they don't want to; they want to keep using cheap immigrant labor instead of employing Americans and offering decent wages and working conditions. I'm sure most tax cheats aren't "ready to abandon this practice" either. We should enforce the law anyway.
14
Does America have the resources to absorb all the people in the world who wish to come here?
That would be a far bigger burden than the monies expended to have control over our own borders.
I agree about cracking down on employers, that is long overdue. Putting a couple of manufacturers, a slew of landscapers, and a couple of construction firm managers in jail would work wonders.
18
A clear majority of Americans want to sharply curtail and limit immigration. If liberals are serious about preventing injustice as described in this article, while also respecting the will of the American majority, they will help to make sure that, in the future, illegal aliens will be prevented from entering in the first place, or at least deported quickly, so they never develop this kind of deep roots.
10
You claim that a "clear majority of Americans want to sharply curtail and limit immigration." Maybe that's the opinion of your social circle, but nationwide, more people are pro-immigration. Here's just one survey, published online on June 28th by Pew:
"The survey by Pew Research Center, conducted June 5-12 among 2,002 adults, finds that 38% say legal immigration into the United States should be kept at its present level, while 32% say it should be increased and 24% say it should be decreased." Seventy percent ok with immigration, 28% not.
Yes pro-immigration but done legally. With strong emphasis on the legal part.
It's very lucky that so many Americans who came to the U.S. after the dispossession of most of the native population did so at a time when they did not have the option of entering "illegally."
5
Clever, wasn't it, to process those millions on an island and not the mainland?
Ellis ISLAND
4
Our loss is Mexico's boon. These self aware, strong minded, brave souls will not be undone by our heartless practice of tossing them over Trumpwall.
But have no fear. Remaining behind to continue making America exceptional are Scott Pruitt, Stephen Miller, Betsy DeVoss, Mike Pompeo, and "Let em eat watered down baby formula" Trump.
We're rounding up the wrong suspects.
19
I would prefer to live aside a hard working family of undocumented refugees than any of the aforementioned cabinet members. Perhaps the least qualified while possessing the least amount of genuine honor in the country's history.
Mexico has the resources and people to have wealth and standards of living on par with the US and Western Europe. Corruption,gaming the system, cheating the law and acceptance criminal organizations hold them back.
Stories such as this purposely refuse to acknowledge the fact that the porous border allows the worst qualities of Mexico into our society first and foremost.
Corrupt officials and criminal gangs profit greatly and strengthen their grip on society on both sides of the border under the current paradigm.
19
Mexico, in terms of purchasing power parity (standard of living), has a GDP on a par with or better than Canada's.
6
How very sad! A label like "Dreamers" is misleading; these young people are Americans in thought word and deed.
2
Well, I see where call centers will be heading to. Whatever happened has already happened. People should move on. In fact, these people actually have more opportunities there. No doubts that they can make bigger impacts there. I am hopeful that we will read some great successful stories from these people one day in NYT.
2
US laws allow foreigners (aliens) to seek entry and citizenship. Those who do not follow these laws are in this country illegally (i.e., illegal aliens) and should be detained and deported; this is policy in other countries, too.
We cannot afford to support our own citizens: the poor, the ill, elderly, disabled, veterans, et al. It is therefore utterly impossible for US taxpayers to support the millions of foreigners who would like to come to the US.
The cruelty lies not in detaining and deporting illegal aliens, or forcing those who wish to enter the US to wait for processing. What is cruel, unethical and probably illegal is encouraging parents to bring their children on the dangerous trek to US borders and teaching them how to game the system to enter the US by falsely claiming asylum, persecution, abuse, etc.
Abolishing ICE makes sense only to advocates of open borders, a policy no nation will ever approve. We will lose the mid-terms and 2020 elections if open borders becomes part of the Democratic platform.
12
Those mentioned in the article had a flaw impossible to eliminate.They have brown skin,and that's the reason they were deported.The very original peoples who populated the Americas,North and South,are considered aliens by the Trump administration,who responds to its constituency's fear of becoming a minority.But the change in the population mix is unstoppable as
the racist Trump's partisans will find out sooner than you may think.See you in 10 years.
7
Take a good look at the young man in the picture. Looks pretty European to me. I'm of Arab ancestry, and my grandparents, along with many, many other people of color, came here LEGALLY.
Trump's proposed changes to immigration policy were for the most part first recommended by the bipartisan Jordan commission, under Pres. Clinton in 1995. A key recommendation is to cut "family reunification" and emphasize skills and education. Seems pretty racist to me to assume, as you apparently do, that people of color can't qualify to come on that basis.
10
"They reminisce about living in a country governed by the rule of law. "
We all do.
117
US laws allow foreigners (aliens) to seek entry and citizenship. Those who do not follow these laws are in this country illegally (i.e., illegal aliens) and should be detained and deported; this is policy in other countries, too.
We cannot afford to support our own citizens: the poor, the ill, elderly, disabled, veterans, et al. It is therefore utterly impossible for US taxpayers to support the millions of foreigners who would like to come to the US. (And, yes, this was true even during the 8 years of the Obama administration.)
The cruelty lies not in detaining and deporting illegal aliens, or forcing those who wish to enter the US to wait for processing. What is cruel, unethical and probably illegal is encouraging parents to bring their children on the dangerous trek to US borders and teaching them how to game the system to enter the US by falsely claiming asylum, persecution, abuse, etc.
Abolishing ICE makes sense only to advocates of open borders, a policy no nation will ever approve. We will lose the mid-terms and 2020 elections if open borders becomes part of the Democratic platform.
48
Not supporting our own citizens is a choice. "Millions" are not clamoring to enter the U.S.; they would be only too happy to stay home if they could be guaranteed a fraction of the peace and prosperity that we have.
3
Isabel, when my immigrant grandparents came here circa 1900, this country was much like the homelands of illegal aliens NOW. Harsh and unfair working conditions. Poverty and slums. Funny thing. Our immigrant ancestors became citizens and literally fought to get labor protections, and voted to tax themselves to provide infrastructure and other services we now take for granted. Our citizens also fought in 2 world wars, as well as a civil war, a Revolutionary War, and several other wars to secure that "peace and prosperity". Nothing illegal aliens can't do in their own countries.
1
Yes, millions are, if not billions, from all around the world--India (pop over 1 billion, many desperately poor), central and south America, the Caribbean, Africa (where the population is growing rapidly and large percentages say they wish to move to developed countries in the next few years), China, etc.
"happy to stay home if they could be guaranteed a fraction of the peace and prosperity that we have."
Guaranteed by whom? It is not our job to guarantee peace and prosperity to the whole world, nor can we (our past efforts at nation-building and enforcing peace have not gone well).
Maybe they can use the skills they acquired in the U.S. to help their country become a better place, instead of one where people try to flee.
15
I’ve always said the best American is a new American.
1
Illegal aliens don't get deported for the offenses mentioned here. They get deported because they're here illegally. However sympathetic these young people are, remember, the main reason they were in the US was because THEIR PARENTS broke the law and brought the kids along while they did it. Sounds like, too, that these kids left their parents behind in the US. Were kids like these to be rewarded with US residency and citizenship, they'd be able to legalize the PARENTS who broke the law. And we all know what happens when you reward law breaking.
68
Where did you come from? My ancestors came from Ireland and did not need visas. My family worked hard and achieved success in school and the workplace. This is what most immigrants do. Our country is better with new blood, which enriches our communities.
What about Melania Trump's parents? Are any laws being bent? or broken?
Deporting youngsters for the sins of their parents makes me ashamed to be an American.
6
They're being deported because the whole family is here illegally. No "sin". A matter of status. Funny though, how unwilling some people are to see the parents deported for breaking the law, even if it would mean we could legalize the kids without getting MORE illegal immigration.
You might also note the Mexico recognizes as citizens not only its citizens who come here illegally, but children born here to Mexicans, and even people of Mexican ancestry.
7
The rule of law is the american dream.
Go back and apply in the right manner.
30
This time last year, a young man was at work outside mending a fence that local workers had deemed a losing project. Quiet, while whistling a tune, he had a fine presence and even the birds listened.
Recommended by a village housing business, he was clear in stating that when his work was finished for the above, he would have time to restore this small nest and make repairs. He did, and it was with a slight tinge of pride that he showed the results of his labor.
After hours out in the sun, one late afternoon he told of how he was going to be deported for having helped a friend. It was a question of finding legal immigrant support and documents to prove that he was an asset to our country.
He has gone now into migration. And, Mr. Badger of seven generations is glad. He 'hates' the Mexicans who live off our land and get free health care. Mr. Badger digs holes in the garden and cuts down trees. If he had his way, he would raze the lawn, destroy the flowers and make the garden into a parking-lot.
The birds still sing these days but their tune is desultory. Children are rarely seen and their house is silent these days.
'Come back, Manuel', for you are missed, and have taken something of value away from America.
3
You really think the illegal aliens who come here aren't "missed" in Mexico? Villages have been hollowed out. Wives and mothers have seen their husbands leave for the US, and forget about the family back home and create a new one here.
7
While sympathetic to the personal plight of deported individuals, there are problems. Most importantly we in the US have the blessings of the rule of law, which has been subverted by illegal entry. A second issue is basic fairness to those who wait their turn in order to enter the country legally. With regard to children separated from accompanying adults at the border, absent paperwork we have no idea who these people are, and whether the adults are even related to these children. We should not be in the business of aiding/abetting child trafficking.
43
The problem with this argument, in the age of trump and his cabinet, is the rule of law has been pushed aside. If you want to apply the rule of law, let's apply it consistently in the area of self-enrichment, conflicts of interest etc etc.
If the minority running this country at the moment truly believed in "liberty and justice for all", they would have helped in developing a solution 2 decades ago. But they haven't done a thing.
5
If America made illegal immigration less enticing and less convenient, there would be fewer sad stories for the Haverford College oral history project to collect. Americans are reluctant to support another amnesty for unauthorized immigrants because they know open border advocates like the authors will work to thwart efforts to curtail future illegal immigration. As part of a legislative package that includes citizenship for those enrolled in the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, we should:
• permit local state and local police to arrest and detain unauthorized immigrants;
• empower states, counties and cities to make it unlawful for unauthorized immigrants to reside within their jurisdictions;
• make E-Verify mandatory nationwide; and
• deny asylum to migrants who enter the country unlawfully.
65
Where are the penalties for employees, and I mean significant, painful penalties, such as confiscation of all business assets?
The grandson of an acquaintance went to France on a tourist visa by himself, hoping to get a summer job, and he found that no one was willing hire him except criminal types, because the penalties for employers were so onerous. He ended up working the only way that was open to him legally, doing farm chores for room and board.
Where are the concerns about the many Asians and Eastern Europeans who are trafficked into the country or who come legally on tourist visas, quietly overstay, and blend into ethnic communities, working behind the scenes in restaurants or sweatshops?
If ALL the measures are directed at the immigrants and concern is focused ONLY on Latinos, I have to wonder about the true motivations of the "tough on immigration" crowd.
Frankly, I wish we could have more hardworking immigrants and fewer American citizens who see red when they hear "Para español, oprima dos" on an automated phone system.
5
The U.S. penalty for hiring undocumented workers are:
•First offenders can be fined $250-$2,000 per illegal employee.
•For a second offense, the fine is $2,000-$5,000 per illegal employee.
•Three or more offenses can cost an employer $3000-$10,000 per illegal employee. A pattern of knowingly employing illegal immigrants can mean extra fines and up to six months in jail for an employer.
I agree that the penalties for hiring undocumented workers are too mild and too few employers who hire undocumented workers are too seldom charged.
Who are we,of European stock,intruders in the Americas since Columbus,to create rules to stop the entry of the descendants of the original occupants.It is like trying to stop the wind,but for the racist Americans who voted for Trump is a dream from which they will soon wake up.
There is a popular myth among liberals that undocumented immigrant workers, "pay taxes." If a majority of them are working "under the table" and paid in cash- they are not paying taxes. The IRS estimates there are over 1.2 million illegal residents using fraudulent SSN's. Those people are paying taxes on the front end- but most do not file a federal return. Another liberal tax myth is that every time an illegal resident buys diapers at Walmart or a tank of gas at Costco- they are somehow contributing to the domestic economy - this may be true in states that have a "sales tax" - but most states don't. And here's what grabs my goat: 60% of all revenue earned by illegal labor is wired back to Mexico- where the Mexican government rakes in millions of dollars in transfer fees - no wonder they want them to come here. The solution is let them in- but have them and their employers taxed and let’s do everything we can to keep their money in the U.S. to fund public education and health services - the two services which the undocumented routinely exploit. They are welcome to come here -- but I want them to pay their fair share. Reality is many of them don't pay anything- and they are just gaming the system for a free ride. I also want to get rid of Birthright Citizenship- eliminate that and illegal immigration will drop by 1/3. And If I have to pay $5 dollars for an apple because no "American" wants to pick it- then so be it. Most of our fruits and vegetables are imported.
65
"Another liberal tax myth is that every time an illegal resident buys diapers at Walmart or a tank of gas at Costco- they are somehow contributing to the domestic economy - this may be true in states that have a "sales tax - but most states don't. "
This argument might be more persuasive if it had its facts right. Five states (Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire and Oregon) do not levy a statewide sales tax. Five out of 50. 10%. This is not "most states."
20
Ok I hear your frustration, but if you want them to pay taxes and support our system we need to give the ones who are productively live in this country a path to citizenship without automatically deporting them. I know they are illegal and that is the real reason you would have them punished and perhaps we need to tighten up security so that we can process a valid application for future immigrants. But the ones here many for decades must be allowed a possible way to integrate more fully into our society. Justice despite what we think is not blind, but is subject to the realities of the situation and perhaps mercy.
10
Aaron, if the IRS estimates that 1.2 million illegal residents are working with fraudulent SSNs and they are having taxes withheld, but not filing returns, then the government gets to keep all the withholdings, and the SS and medicare amounts will never go back to the payees, because they can't apply for them. That makes it a net win for those of us with legal SSNs, because those with fraudulent ones pay in but don't take out.
4
"Young man in Tijuana" You're welcome in my country. If only I knew where that country went.
"Manufacturing Consent", a book by Edward Herman and Noam Chomsky shows how our minds are taken over by simple means of propaganda.
The other end of the stick is "Manufacturing Enemies", the process by which Trump and his handlers are fabricating hatred and sowing fear.
Though it is still unfashionable to compare our regime with that of 30's Germany, this was the precise pair of tactics employed by that government in its campaign to "Make Germany Great Again". Fear mongering and scape-goating work like charms to achieve the odious goals of dictators. And if you think that Trump is going for anything less than that brass ring, you're not paying attention.
Those being deported, as well as those banned by the Supreme Court last week are our version of Pink Triangles and Yellow Stars.
Vote on November. 2018 is not only the most important election in American history, but it could be our last.
37
The authors succeed on stirring emotions, but fail on two logical levels. First, they speak about the general case of illegal immigrants being deported, but their examples, who talk about going to school in America, are all DACA children. The DACA children are a unique demographic, and not typical of all undocumented immigrants (I use both terms interchangeably). But the main shortcoming in the article is a failure to indicate the true cause of the problem: the inability of the U.S. Congress to come up with fair immigration laws. Even those who would welcome more immigrants, or who would support a path to citizenship for those already here, cannot make a viable case for simply breaking the law or ignoring the law. Regardless of one's views on immigration, we must remain a country of laws. It is the responsibility of Congress to pass better laws, not to simply continue the status quo which satisfies virtually no-one.
96
What's not "fair" about our immigration laws? Mexico alone accounts for 15-20% of our LEGAL immigration because of the 1986 amnesty and our emphasis on family reunification, and has for more than 2 decades. I don't consider that "fair" to would-be immigrants in other countries, other regions of the world, nor to AMERICANs who often end up subsidizing the unskilled, uneducated working poor relatives who are brought here.
79
have you looked at how fair the immigration law treats Cubans? Immigration is political. It should be moral, or at least be economic.
Immigration has risen from less than 5% in 1970 to almost 14% today. We need:
1. Laws that slow down immigration so that it becomes no more than 5-10%.
2. Immediately implement eVerify which will prevent unscrupulous employers from employing illegal aliens at illegally low wages working in illegal working conditions because the illegal aliens cannot complain and displacing Americans from their jobs.
3. Fix H1-B Visa laws so that only immigrants that truly have a skill that no American offers is awarded such a Visa.
32
I suggest that these people choose a city and all start moving to it. They can change a city to suit themselves if they move together. Young people did that in Portland and Seattle.
2
What these authors apparently CONVENIENTLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND is that these young people and/or their parents committed a crime. Contrary to the position expressed by these authors, WE CANNOT TAKE OUT AN ERASER and make this crime of illegal entrance disappear.
As I tell whomever will listen, THERE ARE RULES on being granted Asylum status and when you are here, GET A SPONSOR. We cannot make it up as we go along.
Rule of Law is important. Let's start here.
76
Actually, crossing the border without documentation while illegal is not a crime. It is a civil law violation that carries no criminal penalties.
19
A "civil law violation" is a crime. The legal penalty or action is deportation. Calling illegal immigrants "undocumented" does not change the fact that they are here illegally and subject to deportation according to the law.
1
It's a FEDERAL CRIME, punishable by six months in prison, a fine, and followed by deportation. Deportation is a CIVIL remedy that sets things back to what they were before the illegal alien broke the law, and is no more a "punishment" than kicking a gate crasher out of a party is.
One has to wonder what it is about Americans that makes us so nice to one another as individual human beings; and yet, so cruel as a nation.
I believe it is our political class who has done this to us, using fear and loathing to motivate political support for their own interests. It is up to individual Americans to vote against the politicians who seek to divide Americans from one another and from the rest of the world.
91
What is dividing America is ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. Part of the country thinks that it's OK to lie, cheat, line jump and break laws. The other part doesn't it. Illegal immigration is part and parcel of corruption at the highest levels, and the support for it, especially by elites who benefit from it or are not directly affected by it, shows why.
18
Illegal immigration is the smallest problem facing America today. We have less illegal immigration than anytime since the 1970's. But, you would never know that from listening to the political FEAR MONGERS on the right.
If this is the smallest problem facing America today why are Dems so fixated on it to the apparent exclusion of all else?
Most people support the idea that people brought to the US long ago and raised in the US should have the opportunity to remain in the US. It is one of the few ideas on immigration in which there is a majority consensus and an obvious starting point for immigration reform.
Everything else is up in the air. There simply is no consensus we can reach over the fate of people who are living here and working here illegally. From amnesty to deportation, we have people split on what is justice.
I'd like to see a real policy, too, one that doesn't uproot people who have lived among us for years. I can understand the feelings of other immigrants who cannot get visas for family members, and I can understand the feelings of people who see jobs drying up from competition of foreign workers taking lower wages. But I can also argue that mercy is a large part of justice.
I'd like to see a real crackdown which penalizes employers significantly who hire illegal workers frequently and undercut the local working economy. In everything else the Republicans believe in trickle down economics. Hit the supply of jobs, and see if the demand for illegal entry continues; but grant work amnesty - not citizenship - to those productively here.
86
Cathy, I love your line, "But I can also argue that mercy is a large part of justice." It is disturbing to read the comments to this article because most are isolationist, unforgiving, and non-empathetic. I read into their responses the ethos of the popular saying, "I've got mine. Now you get yours."
Here's a hearty "Amen!" to your call for employers of illegal workers to be penalized. When we know the surprising fact of illegal immigration, that the numbers have been way down for a long time, then we realize the current crackdown may be motivated by other reasons than sheer love of the rule of law. If these were white Canadians coming into our country illegally, would the hue and cry be so loud, so cruel?
As a retired teacher, I taught many Hispanic children in my classrooms over the years. Most of them were undocumented and had fled (as we were told) dangerous conditions. I never saw them as drains on my country's resources. I saw them as children in need of kindness and an education. I saw them as future contributors to the American Dream. I did my part, and we all did as their teachers, to help them along the way.
1
Problem with cracking down on employers is that neither party wants it. Dems don't want it because if illegal aliens can't work, they won't stay. Republicans want cheap labor. Fact is, mandatory eVerify would go a long way to enabling the gov't to punish employers for hiring illegal aliens, because the gov't needs to show they KNOWINGLY hired them. Since some 7 million illegal aliens are using stolen SS numbers, a felony, and lying on the I-9, also a felony, it's tough to show the employer knowingly hired them.
Some 7 million illegal aliens are using STOLEN SS numbers, a felony, and lying on the I-9, also a felony, to get jobs. With so many committing fraud, employers can and do simply say they can't tell authorized workers from unauthorized, and can't look 'too closely' or be sued for discrimination. The gov't has to show employers KNOWINGLY hired illegal aliens and massive fraud makes that difficult. So, make eVerify mandatory, then prosecute employers who hire illegal aliens, and illegal aliens who commit fraud.
1
“Inhumane crackdown at the border?” This is where the Left loses half the country. Suddenly enforcement of our immigration laws and protecting our borders as written in the U.S. Constitution stimulates this hysterical response. No one is objecting to an orderly process but jumping across our borders has never been acceptable until recently when an opportunity has arisen to castigate President Trump for doing his job. Americans are extremely welcoming but want the law followed. This is not an extremist position. Democrats do not have the winning argument.
127
The law is broken. I am tired of hearing conservatives talk about the law like it is gospel. It. Is. Broken. The representatives we voted into power allow it to be broken. Any one of us, born into similar situations, would do the same thing as these immigrants. We all strive to be safe and to see our families thrive. Some have this handed to them on a silver platter. Others are less fortunate. If we forget compassion and speak only of laws, we are losing some human decency. That is what Democrats see and it is not a losing argument. It is called humanity.
1
It's an election year for Congress; the left hopes these fawning sympathetic articles will "drum up" anti-Trump fervor and flip the House and Senate.
That is all. Oh and they want to keep their cheap illegal nanny, housecleaner and lawn guy.
2
Sue Mee, how do you think this country was founded? Not only did they cross borders, they crossed oceans! Guess what, they had not passports either. Between 1880 and the end of WWI, 25 million Europeans arrived and most had no legal status to be here. They got on a boat and got off. And, to be perfectly clear, the southwest was part of Mexico and the Spaniards were here 175 years before the Mayflower landed at Plymouth Rock. White people have no more proprietary right here than other people. What many of you are afraid of is the browning of America. DACA students should remain and their families as well. People seeking legitimate refugee status too. We need border security, that is a legitimate right, however, we should temper it with compassion because in the long run, we will be better off for it as a country. We need new immigrants to remain strong and vital as a country.
1
The US is not their country. Illegal immigrants have no right to be here any more than any of us have the right to go squat in a nicer home than we can afford.
While I don't think anyone should hate or dehumanize illegal immigrants or pretend that they are the cause of all the problems in the world, the fact remains that they have done the equivalent of entering someone else's home without permission. And they refuse to leave.
I know that some people think that borders and nations and citizenship are passe , illegitimate and even immoral but that is (1) not true and (2) not a winning political argument.
150
I also think it's pretty clear that these people are just as American as you or me, in every sense of the word but one - and that one sense, when you get right down to it, is the LEAST important thing about being an American.
Let's put it this way - I'd rather have these hundreds of people, these "non-Americans," than any one American citizen who thinks they're a threat to the country. Because ultimately, it's folks like you who are a threat to our future and our ideals, not these people.
You use the metaphor of squatting in a "nicer home than we can afford" but that doesn't quite work seeing as we as native born American citizens have done nothing more than be born here to "earn" that privilege. Not to mention, our house is only nicer because we came in and trashed and stole resources from the neighbors' houses.
There is no pathway for legal immigration unless you have family who are citizens here, win the immigration lottery which is only available to those who live in countries with low immigration to rates, or have a skill that employers can say they cannot find in the US after a search. That leaves no path for a huge amount of people who live in countries that have been severely destabilized thanks to American and European colonialism.
America has room for people and a need for hardworking individuals willing to take on jobs native born citizens won't. Give people a path to come here legally and do that.
You should read how Texas, California and Florida were settled ...illegally by settlers who stole land that was not theirs in territories or parts of a country belonging to others.
After so many of these illegal immigrants took more and more land, others on their behalf battled and waged war on those countries who it belonged to until they were forced to cede these lands to the illegal immigrants who had stolen them.
And that is basically how America ended up owning 3 new states to add to the Union.
Unlike your "pioneering" ancestors...todays illegal immigrants just want a place to live and proper in by becoming good Americans...they do not want to invade and take over America and claim it for Mexico or Spain as once earlier Americans did for America and themselves against those 2 countries.
Our most important liberty, the one we each will defend with our lives, is the freedom to do what we need to do to improve our life and that of our family. But we must remember there is one limit to our liberty: no one is free to harm someone else to "get ahead".
Everyone who has come to this country has come with the hope of improving their lives, and I see no way to justify withholding that opportunity from others.
Will it cost something? Yes, but that is the price of our own liberty, and we should all be glad to pay for it.
25
Your right to swing your fist extends as far as my nose. Illegal aliens "swing their fist" as us when they choose to break our laws. In fact, this article points out that a major reason a wealthy country like Mexico, #15 in GDP, is so unpleasant to live in--the lack of respect for the law. Moreover, WE subsidize most of those who come here for "better lives", legally or not. Why should WE not decide who and how many we do that for?
16
Is it fair to say you're suggesting that the "cost" we should be "glad" to pay for our own liberty include allowing 8 million illegal aliens to keep their payroll jobs in construction, manufacturing and services while 50 million Americans remain out of our work force? That it's acceptable to tolerate stagnant and declining wages for our citizens so foreigners can "get ahead"? When did it become the norm that only the foreign-born be given the "opportunity" to search for a better life?
9
Laws are a society's attempt to codify their values into rules everyone can live by. I happen to value Freedom - your's as well as mine, their's as well as our's.
'They reminisce about living in a country governed by the rule of law. Our survey asks them whether they were fearful of United States authorities. Except for the newest deportees who experienced the recent crackdowns, respondents react with a quizzical look, followed by an almost universal “no.” '
Of course not. We haven't seen strict enforcement of our immigration laws in years. They are proof of it. Deportation isn't a punishment. It is merely moving a person out of an area he has no right to be in, much like eviction.
I find it remarkable that the longer an illegal entrant has violated our immigration laws is somehow considered a mitigating factor in deciding his fate. Why should a person who has broken our immigration laws – and often many others involving working, taxes, and identity theft – for 10 or 20 years be treated more leniently than someone who crossed the border illegally last week? Is the breaking of any law other than illegally entering the US dealt with in this manner?
I don’t recall Bernie Madoff’s lawyers arguing that the fact that his Ponzi scheme had endured for so many years should be raised in his defense. Maybe he should request a new trial?
130
Invalid comparison: here you're referring to displacing people who have started families in the U.S. or don't even remember Mexico.
By your logic, maybe the U.S. should return what it took from Mexico. Just because the territory and people have been part of the U.S. for such a long time is no reason why the territory and its inhabitants shouldn't be part of Mexico.
3
Maybe because (this is math), a child brought in at the age of one, is now eleven. Your logic says they need to pay because they are criminals. A crime committed by Madoff or trump, ongoing for years, is not the same as a child growing up. I'm really sad you can't see the difference; your heart is so hard.
3
Flinchum, you compare Madoff to these young people? What crime did they commit? Their parents committed a misdemeanor crossing the border, what choice did a child or youth have in the decision of their parents. They did not commit a crime.
1
Many of the comments are all for 'the rule of law' and if you break it, you own it and should shut up and accept your fate. And yet in America, we know the rule of law to applied with no assurance of equality of application and discretionary favor. Thus many are for "fair" treatment of DACA recipients due to the nature of their status and commitment to the DACA rules. While the hard liners argue everybody out.
Both sides being manipulated by propaganda used instead of Congressional action to formulate and legislate a comprehensive immigration policy for America. Everybody suffers due to this abrogation of duty. Americans divided and immigrant families divided. We are all losing.
It's way past time for both parties in Congress to do their duty and the hard work required. Compromise is NOT a dirty word. But since Trump needs the issue of immigration to drive his base, he will try to stop Congress from their duty. Therefore a clear resolution will not be coming but in the meantime we the people still have to insist upon humane and safe treatment for all people especially the children. Children being used as political pawns is not acceptable no matter what side you may be on.
36
Let's not forget that president Trump offered a quick path to citizenship for DACA recipients and was turned down by the Democrats. Since he is usually portrayed as a "hard-liner' doesn't that suggest that the actual hard-liners may be the Democrats who opposed a DACA fast path to citizenship when the chips were down on the table and they showed their true cards?
Here is CNB on Trump's offer:
"First, the Trump offer covers a surprisingly larger number of illegal immigrants than expected. The White House plan more than doubles the number of people who could take advantage of its pathway to citizenship.
It would include not just the roughly 700,000 Dreamer immigrants who have applied for DACA protection since 2012, but an additional 1.1 million illegal immigrants who could have qualified but have not yet applied.
That's a major gift from the administration any way you look at it. Democrats were hoping to come out of these eventual negotiations with protections for about 800,000 people. But without even presenting a counteroffer, they're being offered protection for 1.8 million.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/26/trump-daca-deal-is-a-dream-come-true-for...
2
You expect Congress to act now--after more than a decade of delay, which is why Trump even had the issue as means to attack Hillary?
1
The Democrats offered Trump $25 billion for his idiot wall, and he reneged. Funny how you forget that part of the story when it doesn't suit your obstructionist narrative
I've really had it with these never-ending sob stories abut the plight of people who knowingly break our laws to get here. I am all for immigration as long as it's done LEGALLY. I am sick and tired of being called a racist / bigot because of this view point. I am not alone in this either. Abide by the law, wait your turn in line and perhaps you'll get what you are after. The United States does not owe these people anything. They have ample funds to pay a coyote to bring them here money they could use in their own countries. Life isn't fair get used to that.
98
My own take on this article is that, after spending time, resources and energy on educating these young people, the US is now deporting them just when they could start really contributing to American scociety.
Is this rational ?
27
Dear Ms. Channing: If you're going to end your comment, as you did, by saying "life isn't fair," why argue as you do that deportation is always fair? People who have lived in the U.S. from age five didn't "knowingly break our laws to get here." And are all the American-born really morally entitled to plume themselves on their right to be here as against the earned claim of immigrants who risk their lives in our military? Is, for example, our president entitled to crow after his evasion of his war via student deferments and, when they ran out, a medical exemption for a claimed condition that seems not to have troubled him otherwise?
5
I'm for giving these kids a shot at becoming legal as should their parents who after living here for lord knows how many years illegally a shot at becoming citizens. What I don't appreciate are those who decide laws do not apply to them. Perhaps if there were consequences it might stem the flow of those who decide to jump the line and break our laws. Unless YOU feel it perfectly OK to come and go whenever you feel like it. Try going to another country without the necessary documentation.
1
Both the Democrats and many Republicans and Libertarians are schizophrenic when thinking about immigration.
Democrats want the book thrown at employers who hire illegal workers, but they don't want the workers revealed to be illegal, so they don't want mandatory eVerify which is the only feasible near term way for employers to distinguish between legal and illegal workers.
Mainstream Republicans and Libertarians can't seem to grasp the need for employers, using eVerify, to determine the legal status of prospective workers, because they are wedded to the hard working low cost labor. The other hemisphere of their brain decries the growth in entitlements -- Welfare, SNAP, WIC, Medicaid, etc. -- that their low wage illegal workers' US born kids collect from birth. "Import" the labor then gripe about the cost of supporting their families.
30
You miss the real reason we Conservatives object to everify: US citizens should not be tracked by the government. I have no objection to monitoring illegal aliens or people here on visas as they are not entitled to all of the rights I have as an American.
You’re certainly wrong to say liberals don’t want eVerify. As far as I (a liberal) am concerned it’s the Holy Grail of the issue. It would solve the cruelties and economic unfairness involved in this rotten system; immigrants would not come in illegally; the need for workers would ultimately pressure the government to allow these people come in with good documents, and wages would reflect some kind of economic rationality rather than blackmail and coercion on the part of employers. We’d all be better off.
2