Military recruit attrition rates* are between 11 and 14% with the Air Force a bit lower than the Navy, Army, and Marines. The New York Times rationalizes noncitizen military recruit discharge immunity for immigration and political purposes.
* https://www.thebalancecareers.com/united-states-military-basic-training-...
7
In a nation made up of 100% immigrants, this is beyond repulsive. Trump stirs hate of the Other like an expert and for no other reason but poetic al gain and ignorance, and that he is president shows Americans for who they truly are. Own it Land of the Free.
49
I wonder when Trump will create an elite military force comprised of white people, preferably Norwegians and Russians.
46
What would we expect from someone who said his Vietnam was trying not to get STD's. Honoring and respecting the military is a con by the Republican party. They use the soldiers and discard them when they are done with them.
79
In war, it's customary to demonize the enemy so as to aid in the desensitization of a soldier's initial aversion to killing an enemy who might be a kind husband and loving father. But now we're saddled with an ignoramus bent on demonizing certain of our own soldiers, soldiers willing to put themselves in the way of grievous harm or even death on the orders of that same ignoramus. Day by day, month by month, there seems to be no end to the thoughtless, malign stupidity of Donald Trump.
56
There are no words to describe the cruelty and blind belief of Trump & Trumpies about immigrants being a threat to them! At at time when the U.S. military cannot find good recruits among citizens due to obesity, substance abuse and poor skills, this action undermines U.S. military strengths. That the leadership at the top bows down to edicts from an incompetent POTUS who never served his country nor did any of his children, is absolutely mind boggling! America is NOT a decent country any more!
58
This is a Republican led program of ethnic cleansing; the asylum seekers, the military, the refugees on protected temporary protection. Please please people stop this and vote. Are we a democracy? We can't be a democracy if we don't vote.
33
Trump hates the FBI, the CIA, now the military. He hates America and doesn't respect our troops, our special agents and the foreign U.S. soldiers who we made swear an oath of allegiance through a program we created to serve our great nation. I don't think I've ever seen such a dishonorable and frankly un-American President as him. He again praised Putin this weak as he is always ready to do so.
51
This is so wrong. Why are citizens of the USA permitting a fascist takeover...you and we will long regret Trump and his criminal administration, his unAmerican ideas and methods, his raping and pillaging of a formerly decent nation.
36
Trump never served in the military, and instead sought active deferment.
He had the gall to criticize a US Senator who did serve his country and was tortured as a prisoner of war.
He criticized a Gold Star family who paid the ultimate sacrifice to defend this country.
That this person installed by Putin as US President against the overwhelming count of the American popular vote now seeks to discharge immigrants serving their country before they become lawful citizens is beyond the pale.
Only a person who has never spent a day defending the country, and is now actively attempting to destroy it from within, could invent such a debased and offensive policy.
58
This is a new low for the USA. We have a draft dodger for a President who is reneging on a promise for those who actually fight for our country.
How can anyone think that this is ok? America is a county of immigrants and the republican party seems to forget that.
70
It is clear that the new targets are not at all immigrants per se but illegal immigrants who had irregularities in their documentation (being PC here). Falsification of documentation is a crime in and of itself and also a violation of the military code of code of conduct, and surely a disqualification for military service and the perks associated with it.
I think that both sides of the aisle would at least agree that we do not want to see the US army, or a fraction of it, turn into a mercenary army of illegal foreign nationals.
21
Dear Immigrants: If this is the way the U.S. government will be treating you, do not join the military.
13
Our military is well over 60% private contractors. Blackwater is actively involved in military action on behalf of the USA, Saudi Arabia and other countries. They aren't loyal to the USA or the chain of command. They are in fact mercenaries.
Perhaps these men and women can get HB1 visas and go to work for Blackwater and stay in the country?
Our secretary of State, NSA directory and the President himself are good friends with Erik Prince Blackwater's CEO. This will allow President Trump to pander to his base and squeeze service out of these honorable young men and women.
9
This is a bold faced lie, and a pernicious one. “But in 2012, the Obama administration used the MAVNI program to address a separate problem: how to give undocumented immigrants who had been living in the U.S. since childhood, also known as Dreamers, a path to citizenship by joining the military while enrolled in DACA.
In the wake of that decision, the DoD changed the way MAVNI operated, requiring additional security screenings for those waiting in the MAVNI pipeline and creating a substantial backlog.
In 2016, the Pentagon effectively shuttered the program, closing applications and stalling those recruits who had already started the process.”
://www.lexisnexis.com/legalnewsroom/immigration/b/outsidenews/archive/2017/09/14/expert-mavni-killed-by-39-bureaucratic-bumbling-39.aspx?Redirected=true
The recruits in question failed background checks. Remind me again, who was president in 2012, and 2016?
17
40? And this is the latest Constitutional crisis? An newspaper with such fine investigative journalists as NYT has should dig a little deeper into why these particular 40 individuals were discharged. I expect they would find 40 good reasons.
16
Nope. Other outlets have already done such digging. One guy used the Freedom of Information Act to see his report in advance. It was a glowing review and made him very optimistic. Just a couple of months later, he was discharged. Nothing in his report suggested anyone had any reason to doubt his abilities. It sounded like he was a shoe-in.
18
This story reminds me of the opposite example. In World War II, German Jews, who escaped Nazi Germany during the 1930s, and many of them entered the United States sometimes by using harmless deceptions to get around the restrictions imposed by the United States, were embraced and incorporated into the United States Army. Many of them had to be naturalized in special services in order for them to continue their military service. They came to be known as the Ritchie boys, and they parachuted into Europe to serve mainly as interrogators, and intelligence officers, using their knowledge of Germany and the German language. They were an indispensable part of the war effort. Shame on Donald Trump and the military for this despicable display of xenophobia.
35
I think the sad man in the oval office is cleaning house so there will be no un-white faces in his upcoming military parade. He does not want to be distracted or disturbed during his big moment.
14
Very important topic to discuss, but I have to say this line is completely untrue and I have a hard time believing Cuthbert or anyone else truly believes this:
"...the military has often led the way in promoting civil rights."
The military simply let black and brown people in to make itself stronger, because it needs as many people as possible, because the US is obsessed with militaristic strength. Black and brown folks in the military are still discriminated against, as this article goes on to explain, and the military as an institution, as far as I know, did not do anything to directly challenge Jim Crow. To suggest that it is somehow socially progressive just because Truman saw the utility of black and brown bodies on the front lines is just silly.
5
How stupid are we to recruit foreigners for our military? This makes no sense. Trump is right to kick them out. This should never have happened in the first place.
7
Without foreigners we probably wouldn't have won any of the wars we've won. Look at the numbers.
23
To borrow a phrase, "how low can we go?"
14
Absolutely right. However, because I will never allow one terrible President to be an excuse to redeem another terrible one, the Bush administration persecuted gays and got rid of soldiers with critical language skills (Pashto, Arabic) after 9/11.
That being said, Trump is much worse than Bush, and has greatly expanded the list of people discriminated against. I also would disagree with calling his position nativist, that is too delicate and euphemistic. He is a racist, white supremacist and the issue of immigration is simply one more cudgel he uses to attack people who don't look entirely European.
15
It is obvious that our country's current 'leadership' embraces their own 'alternative 'facts'. Why do the folks in WH and week-ending in Mar-A-Lago insist on denying the fact We Are the Greatest Country in the World BECAUSE we are a nation of immigrants?? Un-contestable Fact (unless of course the "WH Fact Deniers" choose to Tweet to the Contrary: More than 600 Medal of Honor Winners were Immigrants. https://immigrationforum.org/article/new-americans-u-s-armed-forces-fact...
8
WHAT is Congress doing?? WHY is Congress not excercising oversight on this and many other core-value issues?
Trump, by singling out "national origin", is violating the Executive Order signed by Pres. Truman...how can Trump get away with it? Trump swore to uphold the Constitution. He does not even know what it is/what it says. WHY does Congress do nothing?
These actions help to explain what we can expect from a bone-spur draft dodger 40 years on...but do not explain our do-nothing Congress.
Only 120 days left until Nov. 6th---cannot wait!!!
24
What happened to the Republican Party? It's not enough to say they have become the party of Trump. What happened to the minds and souls of the people who hold responsible party positions?
And what do they think will be the legacy of this period in party history?
5
Trump is cannibalizing his own military by this stupid behavior.
6
Our commander in chief, with five draft deferrals, ostensibly for bone spurs in his feet, who claims to love the military, has found reason to deny immigrants a path to citizenship. Never mind that most in the past have served honorably, the Defense Department has been declared by the draft-dodger president to be closed to them. Trump has shown his true colors in many despicable ways, but this reprehensible crook actually believes he can do no wrong. His only doubt is whether he loves golf or the military more.
13
Very important topic to discuss, but I have to say this line is completely untrue and I have a hard time believing Cuthbert or anyone else truly believes this:
"...the military has often led the way in promoting civil rights."
The military simply let black and brown people in to make itself stronger, because it needs as many people as possible, because the US is obsessed with militaristic strength. Black and brown folks in the military are still discriminated against, as this article goes on to explain, and the military as an institution, as far as I know, did not do anything to directly challenge Jim Crow. To suggest that it is somehow socially progressive just because Truman saw the utility of black and brown bodies on the front lines is just silly.
3
It should come as no surprise to anyone, except the current occupant of the White House, whose grandfather was, himself, an undocumented, unaccompanied migrant, the audacious contributions of immigrants such as, von Steuben, Pulaski, Lafayette, Kościuszko, de Gálvez, and de Kalb. Men, who helped turn a rag-tag collection of farmers, merchants, freeborn blacks, frontiersmen and ne'er-do-wells of every stripe into the Continental Army; bane of the British Empire!
9
Not to mention this will kill the professional military and we will have to revert back to a draft. Beware the law of unintended consequences.
9
This is what happens when racism meets incompetence. If Trump were racist, yet competent, he would encourage these people to stay by making them citizens and then asking them to continue serving. I'm sure many of them would agree to do so, and then this would result in more black and brown people dying for the US. But since he is both racist AND incompetent, he is pushing them out of the country-- which will, of course, require more white people (Trump's favorite) to die for the US.
3
Donald Trump is undoing an executive order of General Dwight Eisenhower, which has been in effect for 70 years among our active military?
So it’s Trump vs Ike on military readiness?
“I like Ike.”
9
He's making Bush and One look like progressives.
4
According to the Associated Press article referenced in this op-ed, there are 10,000 non-citizens serving in the armed forces, and 5000 who were recruited in 2016. The AP article goes on to explain that they know of 40 who have been either discharged, or placed in legal limbo. That's hardly a purging of the armed forces, which this disingenuous op-ed attempts to present as truth. Forty immigrant service members out of 10,000 comes out to 0.4%. That's hyperbole comparable to using the term "genocide" to refer to the death of a single person.
What's worse, reasons HAVE been offered for the discharges, according to the AP:
"Others who pressed for answers said the Army informed them they’d been labeled as security risks because they have relatives abroad or because the Defense Department had not completed background checks on them."
While I am not defending the Trump administration's actions here, or arguing against their actions, it appalls me that the New York Times allowed this op-ed to appear on the online front page for two days, when it grossly misrepresents facts that could have been easily verified.
12
They're foreigners, they all have relatives abroad, so that's not a reason. The background checks weren't completed withstanding a reason to. The AP article does there Not state a concrete reason.
1
Meanwhile Trump had deferments for bone spurs and Don Jr., Eric, and Jared haven't spent a nanosecond in the military.
Who knew that our military had so many generals like Kelly and Mattis who don't have the character or backbone to tell a draft dodger like Trump that they refuse to dismiss immigrants from the military who are willing to perform the duty that Trump and his clan shirked.
23
I remember when Mattis was celebrated on Twitter for being the real president. He has proved a frail reed. No one can be seen as a reasonable voice either in the Administration of the GOP congressional ranks.
7
Typical "progressive" story. Had to read halfway down to grasp what I knew had to be the case: this story is about illegal "immigrants" who lied about their status and supplied fake documents to join the military. It may be about some DACA enlistees too, since DACA did not change their illegal status, merely deferred their deportation.
It is not about legal immigrants being singled out.
Only citizens and green card holders can join the services. It's spelled out clearly.
https://www.usa.gov/join-military
8
Here's why Trump will win on this issue: American citizens live under tons of red-tape these days -- long application forms, court-orders, 'lawful orders' by cops, and a million other governmental dictates that tolerate nothing less than 100% compliance. If an American citizen lied on some form, like a college or job application, a jury-duty questionnaire, a background check, etc., the New York Times would probably not defend that person. In fact, these little box-checking items on applications trip-up a lot of American citizens who have trouble finding work, even though they are good overall people. Meanwhile, the NYTimes is defending the rights of people who have lied to gain employment with one of the most basic citizenship duties -- military service. BTW, military service can also lead to other benefits besides citizenship, including college scholarships, preferences in employment, job-training, etc. If some unemployed Trump supporter lied on a military form, I doubt that the NYTimes would be very sympathetic to that person. It truly is as though we are moving towards having two systems in this country -- one undocumented and one that requires obedience at the most minute details. Which system would you rather live under? The more this issue is discussed publicly, the more Trump will win, again.
13
"If an American citizen lied on some form, like a college or job application, a jury-duty questionnaire, a background check, etc., the New York Times would probably not defend that person."
I can't speak to what NYT would or would not say about such a person, but I can say that I know tons of people who do things like this on a regular basis. Particularly white upper-middle-class kids in their 20s, they lie on their resumes about what college they went to and/or include a false job under their employment history with a cell phone number of a friend as a reference. They do this regularly and with impunity.
7
Are you ok with Jared lying all over his SF86? I am retired military...and I used to be a recruiter, and my job was to qualify applicants to join, by ensuring they are mentally, morally and physically qualified...was convincing an applicant to lie a part of the process? Sure, but it depends on the lie, like if they ever smoked MJ.
All applicants have to prove their right to be here in this country, among other things, and there are penalties for lying. The process to join is a complex one.
In addition, these kids aren't privy to top secret information, unlike Jared, who lied about his Russian contacts.
Say what you want about these poor kids, but their recruiter holds the cards as to them being on active duty.
Please advise.
2
Young Americans are being turned away from military service because of illegals? Did I miss something?
That said, I'm not so sure that you're not at least partially correct. However, that says more about the lack of ability of a significant segment of our citizenry not being able to think rationally than anything else.
2
I just re-read this story. Perhaps someone can make it clearer
Currently, US citizens and Green Card holders can legally join the military. Illegal "immigrants" cannot legally join.
I don't believe Trump is going after any Green Card holding legal immigrants.
Green Card holding legal immigrants have traditionally become naturalized through serving in the military.
I doubt very much Trump is changing this.
So, the stats in this article about the number of immigrants who became naturalized through military service aren't likely to change.
Trump may well be going after illegal "immigrants" who joined by lying on applications and supplying fake documents. And he should be.
What is the wellspring of all this righteous indignation about illegal "immigrants" lying, committing perjury, and supplying fake versions of this country's most important documents of personal identification?!
The Army is an employer like any other. We need mandatory eVerify with workplace audits for them and all employers.
9
What's happening, as I understand it from both this article and The Nation's article about this (yesterday or Thursday), is that illegal immigrants were allowed to come here and serve and were promised citizenship after a certain amount of time (2 years, I think). But now, as many of them approach that two-year mark, suddenly they are being told they have been denied citizenship, without any explanation other than a vague accusation of being a "security risk."
The Nation article included a story of two brothers. One came to serve under this program years ago, put in his time in the military and the was granted citizenship within a few months. HIs brother tried to do the same thing and was recently discharged without any explanation and denied his citizenship.
In another case, a Pakistani recruit worried about his status got his report through the Freedom of Information act, and it was a glowing review of his love for the USA and the reviewers' confidence that he would always act in the best interest of the USA. So imagine his surprise when just a couple of months after having seen his report, he received a notice that he was being denied citizenship as a security risk. He knew this could not be true because unlike most others, he had already seen his report.
I wish this article had included such stories to make the problem clearer to readers such as yourself.
14
You know what this tells me? If the chain of command doesnt have the guts to say "Nuts" like Gen. Mcauliffe during WW II to this injustice, when will they tell Trump NO? When he calls for martial law?
14
No, not even then.
3
History has shown time and time again; its easy to start racial purging. But once it starts, it takes its own disastrous course and has only been stopped with a violent upheaval.
12
Don’t immigrants make up a good chunk of our military? They are willing to serve more so than American-born. Does Trump and his cronies think MAGA hat wearing young men and women will be lining up to take their place?
9
I think you are confusing minorities and immigrants. Our military is comprised of a very large portion of minorities. There are a good number of immigrants that are using this path to gain citizenship, but they do not comprise a huge percentage of our military personnel.
6
Most of those MAGA hat-wearing young men and women wouldn't be able to pass the physical, much less get through basic training.
7
American ignorance, machismo, and xenophobia elected Mr. Trump (and a fine Russian first lady he makes - but should we permit President of the US to be a second, make that third, gig?) and his own ignorance, machismo, and xenophobia will be our downfall. Karma's a bad female dog. This is all so disheartening. We are a nation of immigrants, with full employment and an aging population. We need immigrants and the children of immigrants are the most productive members of our society. Blah, blah, we KNOW all this!! Why has half the country stopped listening? Take a stroll through some of the headlines in this paper. So long as being part of the informed left means aligning with hand wringing of Ms. Johanson's movie roles, and declaring themselves "cis", while declining to "assign" their newborn children a sex, many will instinctively go running toward the right! If we deny the most obvious truths, no one will come looking to us to explain those that are more subtle and complex.
1
No surprise here. Just Trump and his minions displaying yet more disgusting xenophobic, racist behavior. What is really sad is that these military members who served are country honorably were discharged near the 4th of July when we should be celebrating our country's independence and promise of freedom. It is especially galling coming from the Coward in Chief who didn't serve his country but loves military trappings--when is the next parade?
8
I watch Telemundo sometimes because I'm learning Spanish, and I've noticed more military recruiting ads (en espanol) are run on this station than on the big networks. Aside from the obvious question of why the military should have a multi-million ad budget, these ads on Telemundo seem very creepy when contrasted against the Presidents anti-Hispanic rhetoric. Apparently they still want "vermin" and "breeders" as cannon fodder. Sick.
11
Yes, and the military sends reps from its various groups (Army, Air Force, etc.) to black and brown schools disproportionately compared to white schools (at least on the coasts). They target poor people, who on the coasts are mostly black and brown, in addition to targeting poor young people from the Midwest and South (of all colors). They use free education as a hook.
4
First the GOP came for Mexican's and the Muslims in the first week of Trump-mania, then they came to rob the lower-class and middle-class via historic-level tax breaks to corporations and the rich, then they came for the blacks in Charlottesville and elsewhere, then went far beyond our borders to enrage and rob US allies, the international community with irrational self-destructive trade wars, polluting relationships with America's closets friends and abandoning the offer of any hope for a better world.
It's too late now to do much perhaps - before they come for us all, you and your family, they have almost taken over the schools and military.
First the GOP creates fear far and wide, first destroy the most innocent and most defenseless - add more fear - then go for anyone without much money or good health with the argument they do not contribute to America.
Every rational person should have seen this moment coming during the first week of Trump-mania.
9
If Trump wants to do an immigrant purge he should look around the White House.
Specifically, at his father-in-law Viktor Knavs, a retired car salesman who looks like a Trump impersonator and used to be registered with the Slovenian Communist Party.
Is this the kind of immigrant we want or need?
9
This just confirms my belief that trump and anyone that voted for him are racist. Meanwhile he’s petitioning to get more foreign workers for his companies.
7
Donald Trump is a coward. A single one of these immigrants is more brave and upstanding than the entire Trump administration and Trump family combined.
21
I get it.
Lies and perjury is fine - if those we like are telling the lies and committing the perjury - and we like illegal aliens.
No hypocrisy here.
12
Wow, did you miss the forest for the trees. I believe by far the most consequential lies being told are from Trump. When he lies it affects far more people than an immigrant trying to improve his/her life by entering our military service. In the immigrant's case, they are willing to put their life in jeopardy to earn their citizenship. Now tell me which person's lie is more harmful and deserving of punitive action? The immigrant gains my respect.
12
Of course lies and perjury in the Administration and by the President are fine for those who voted for Trump but not of a non-white who wants to honorably defend our country.
8
Why is it not yet possible to identify the paper trail
between a particular small cell within the WH cabal and the army that explains what is going on? There should be explicit names, and email or paper instructions, detailing the origin and history of this latest xenophobic idiocy. Said individuals then need to testify to congress to try and "justify" this most recent patriotic effort to be really stupid for the common good.
5
It should come as no surprise to anyone, except the current occupant of the White House, whose grandfather, it is said, was an undocumented, unaccompanied migrant, the audacious contributions of immigrants such as, von Steuben, Pulaski, Lafayette, Kościuszko, de Gálvez, and de Kalb. Men, who helped turn a rag-tag collection of farmers, merchants, freeborn blacks, frontiersmen and ne'er-do-wells of every stripe into the Continental Army; bane of the British Empire!
2
The Trump administration gets so intolerably depressing. Every day brings another fight gratuitously picked, another group of people targeted for abuse, another insult to common human decency, another pack of lies, more chaos in the West Wing, another impulse indulged without considering the consequences.
The mean-spiritedness on behalf of all Americans is rivaled only by the rank incompetence in the Oval Office. It has become so appealing to turn down the volume and to withdraw from drive to resist. This must not happen. Malign autocracy thrives where resistance fades from fatigue. Head-in-the-sand is not an option.
7
Next up - people earning minimum wage and the chronically I'll. They "contribute so little" by not paying enough in taxes and needing subsidized health care. It will be claimed that it's time for "hard-working Americans" to be free of the burden of caring for these free-riders. If the rest of America has to sink or swim, why shouldn't bthese losers, will be the argument. Why should the rest of us pay for their bad choices? Time to take the moochers off of life support! Patriotic euthanasia is next in line. After all, Trump can sell anything to 40% of the public.
3
The Army announced in April that it would not meet the recruitment goal for FY 2018. This not just an un-American policy but it is a stupid one that will leave our nation less safe.
Some how standing up at a football game is more patriotic than signing an enlistment contract.
6
Military service and citizenship have always been tightly bound together in our history. The Conscription Act of 1863 imposed a draft on all male aliens between the ages of 20 and 45 who had declared their intention to become a citizen, as well as all male citizens of the same age. (12 Stat. L. 731) A year earlier Congress passed and President Lincoln signed into law an act that any alien 21 years old or older who had enlisted in the army and been honorably discharged could become a United States citizen with no more than one year’s previous residence in the United States even if he had not previously announced an intention to become a citizen. (12 Stat. L. 594, 597) I guess Abraham Lincoln and that Civil War Congress were weak on immigration and naturalization issues. They were a Republican party that made the Union great again.
5
Trump manipulated the Military to avoid service in Vietnam. A phony foot disability supported by friendly doctors. How shameful that a military coward uses his office to punish courageous newcomers who want to protect their new homeland.
10
Stupid, stupid, stupid. Short-sighted and self-serving as usual. Repubs going along with it also as usual. The military commanders sinking right along with them.
Meanwhile, Americans can barely speak their own language and don't understand how important language speakers are to our security. When did Americans become such fools?
6
Disgusting. I have now added this to the increasing list of why I'm ashamed to be an American.
7
The Times' coverage of the illegal immigration issue has been atrocious. First they avoid saying "illegal immigrant" by inventing a silly euphemism, "undocumented", as if they had lost their ID cards somewhere. Then they act as if all immigrants are under attack, including those who are legally in the country.
The real issue is that a corrupt president who hired illegal immigrants to build his real estate properties in New York is now hypocritically pretending that they are a huge threat to the country. The real threat to the country is a President who acts like an overgrown school bully and never learnt how to use reason to solve problems.
13
Last I heard, the military was having big problems with both recruitment and retention. If so, ejecting willing and able soldiers for no good reason seems simply idiotic.
8
When I read stories about what Trump's doing to our country, I've begun to feel extremely sad mixed with frustration for those liberals who didn't vote for Hillary Clinton because she was dragged through the mud for so many years (even though there has never been one instance where she was indicted for any wrong doing).
4
Immigrant or native-born, every person on their first day of boot camp is already more of a patriot than Trump and all the politicians who have avoided military service will ever be.
8
After serving twenty-six years of military service, I find myself dishearten and sicken by the repulsive attack by the "Commander-In-Chief" and his select followers, civilian and military alike, who target our military members because they are immigrants. When will our 250 plus years of history prevail to highlight the significant contributions made to our Country and our Armed Services by those desiring to become citizens? And, when will recent history prevail to highlight the inadequate capabilities of our "Commander-In-Chief" and his select followers to govern?
8
Are we blurring the facts again? Are these people here illegally?
Let’s abide by the laws and stop being selective.
8
Ok let's look at this objectively. Trump lied to stay out of the military. The immigrants lied to get in. Which lie should we punish?
6
Some recruits or enlisted just don't cut the mustard and are unable to fulfill the requirements of the U.S. Military. This happens to American citizens as well. Often.
8
Whitewash.
4
Did you even read the story? They are being singled out due to their immigration status, not due to performance. There would be no story if their discharges were for performance reasons.
2
When does the shame of this president’s actions get through to Republicans in Congress. Time and again, topic on topic, the plea for Congress to act fairly is ignored. Where are the two honorable, decent Republicans in the Senate that will switch parties and at least give us one chamber to Make America Great Again. “At long last....”.
4
Where are Trumps hero’s in the Thailand cave disaster? The world can’t be to bad when you watch the rescue efforts being made by world wide military hero’s. Good luck rescue troops.
I'm horrified by this piece and the companion NYT article detailing more of these stories. My son is a new Army soldier, still in basic training, and I know that all he cares about is that his fellow soldiers can do their jobs. He cares not a whit if the solder who might someday save his life comes from Georgia or Guatemala.
I cannot believe that we have a Congress and cabinet that allow this horrid president to lead our country down a path that's dangerous, immoral, and cruel. History will judge them all, but that's small comfort when we reel from the news on a daily basis.
If our (white) leaders would like to keep our military looking like them and boxing out immigrants, I would like to see their children enlist. My son did. Trump, how about yours?
8
The trump tentacles have already poisoned the water and thus creating a tragedy from which the USA will take decades to recover, if at all. WWII soldiers, dead and alive, who fought to make the world free and fair, are weeping.
4
One may label this new initiative of Trump for getting rid of immigrants in the military, striving for citizenship through service, as part of a "nativist" agenda. It fits, I suppose. However, more basic than that, in my view, is that it's more about a grander plan for creating as fully as possible a psychological environment of fear. It is this, after all, that gives Trump much support among his followers. The real danger overlooked through distraction on this "military cleansing" directive and similar "trumped-up" ploys, is Trump himself at his core. As regards the presidency: Inexperience is one thing; willed diabolic behavior is another ... and it that that seems on striking display in Trump.
The mid-term elections are coming, and he's getting ready.
3
Uncharacterized discharges are entry level discharges given before recruits complete initial entry training, usually with in the first 180 days. According to the Army Times, “More than 5,000 immigrants were recruited into the program in 2016, and an estimated 10,000 are currently serving. Most go the Army, but some also go to the other military branches.” The New York Time says about 40 immigrant received uncharacterized discharges. That would amount about 0.8 percent of immigrants recruited in 2016. This doesn’t seem abnormal. Between 11 and 14 percent of Army, Navy and Marine recruits fail to complete initial entry training.
An uncharacterized discharge is used for most recruit separations. Uncharacterized discharges are authorized for all members separated at the entry level on or after 15 June 1983 who:
(a) Have fewer than 180 days of active service on discharge, and
(b) Demonstrate poor proficiency, conduct, aptitude or unsuitability for further service during the period from enlistment through recruit training, or
(c) Exhibit minor pre-existing medical issues not of a disabling nature which do not meet the medical/physical procurement standards in place for entry into the service.
9
While you make your case for the normal occurrences of this type of discharge. However, your list of reasons doesn't include known immigration status. The article is making the claim that an effort has been launched to purge the recruits that were within this 180 period and were using the service to citizenship program. If that is the case, your post is a mischaracterization of the circumstances.
It's exhausting waking up every day to a new area of destruction from the Trump Administration. People keep talking about the Democrats needing to stand strong and vote to reverse this. That makes sense, but how do we fight voter suppression, gerrymandering and a whole group of people with apparently no ethical will or moral center? In order to stop the voter suppression and gerrymandering we have to get voted into office, but of course those very things prevent us from getting into office. It is the definition of a vicious circle and this side of mass demonstrations I don't see any end to it.
6
Would this animus also be directed to anchor babies, whose parents had them wave "hi" to the nice Customs officer when they were arriving from Ecuador or elsewhere 40 years ago? So many of my fellow officers in my Federal agency, the oldest law enforcement entity in existence in our country as it was chartered in Article 8 of the Constitution, are anchor babies. Are their loyalties now also suspect?
5
NYT, you are choosing strange examples to make your point. How is someone who came to the U.S. as an adult, but pretended to be a minor in order to get placed in U.S. foster care and get a green card through the special immigrant juvenile program a instance of an "inconsequential falsehood?"
13
Did you read the section about how many immigrants in the past have done whatever they could to "game the system" to get a foothold in the "Land of Opportunity?" Take Melania Trump, for example, who was shown to have illegally worked while on a tourist visa, probably omitted that fact (and thus made a material omission) in her subsequent application for U.S. citizenship, and is now First Lady.
You might try carefully researching your own immigrant roots Working Mama before criticizing the pathways of others. You may well find that some of your ancestors cuts some corners too, and you would thus be the beneficiary of those transgressions.
And while you would hold his entry into the U.S. against him, Lance Corporal Gutiérrez was killed in Iraq, giving his life protecting the U.S. and its citizens, including you.
2
Our Commander in Chief should recognize that, for the future Donald Trumps of the world to avoid military service, a robust volunteer armed service that includes immigrants is needed.
14
I am having difficulty understanding how one man (Trump) can make all these large decisions alone. Should our congress not be involved with this decision and others that affect the country as a whole?
21
Another disgusting example of our draft dodging president who loves the military.
35
These 40 individuals failed to pass a background check. When Kushner fails a background check you go nuts.
10
(The Kushner-false-equivalence pivot.)
2
People should know that this xenophobic,white supremacist, racist immigrant policy, the travel ban, the imprisoning of innocent children separated from their parents and this policy against immigrants in the military is all being instigated and pushed forward by one person.
That person is Stephen Miller. There is something wrong with this person. Though Jewish by birth he exhibits all the predilections of fascists of a notorious period within our living memory.
This evil hatred of fellow human beings simply on the basis of their national origin, their faith or their ethnicity is loathsome and despicable.
Don't anyone try to bury these policies and actions by this administration in bland and mild euphemisms.
This is the very essence of the same perverted diseased minds that led ultimately to the senseless deaths of millions.
This is what is happening in our country right now.Don't say it can't happen here. It's happening.
Call it what it is and raise your voice in protest.
51
Fire Stephen MIller!
6
France granted instant citizenship to an illegal African immigrant who scaled a building to save a child dangling from a balcony.
These soldiers have proved themselves at least as much on a daily basis.
It is dishonorable and low...and yes, xenophobic.
20
Trump's 'policy' on immigration is really a racist policy about ethnic cleansing.
17
Just when you think Mr.Trump can sink no lower on the rung of human decency, he takes another step to the bottom.He would not serve his country because it was inconvenient and maybe he had "bone spurs".He is now hell bent on removing brave and well meaning immigrant recruits from the service.Harry Truman's legacy must live on and Congress must assure that it does.
17
This is awful. Trump is destroying our country. At this rate we'll have to change our motto from E Pluribus Unum to Blood and Soil For White Guys.
14
This is just flat out nut's!
How will anyone trust America when it makes a promise?, the way the world used to, because it could trust us. America mostly does not break it's word, and we pride ourselves on keeping our promises....as a people, and as a gov't....at least decent folk's do. These soldier's are not only getting removed for their cultural identity, they will also be scarred and have a record of "didn't pass FBI Vetting" for life. How's that for gratitude! Orange man can't do anything without adding some cruelty to it. He is sick and needs to be stopped this November. Vote!
16
Just a stunningly abysmal president.
34
Will Don Jr., Eric, Ivanka, Tiffany and Baron be signing up soon?
17
It's all about Make America White Again. Any way they can.
18
No, it's all about spreading that untruth, and you know it.
2
I am Canadian but my reading through the many years is that there is no abundance of born Americans enlisting in your armed forces. My impression that many enlistees are minority trying to earn some advantage in your markedly racist society. (Proof this week 911 calls on a black representatives campaigning, a black youth running a little lawn maintenace company, a black woman professional being blocked from her own gated community by a white dude who did not live there, and a black woman being barred from her own community swimming pool.) I am a pacifist but as the USA is very militaristic it would seem to be self defeating not to welcome all comers in your military. Perhaps cadet bonespurs is planning on reinstituting your draft. Perhaps that would be a good thing...drumpf and the repuglucans would massively lose any support...probably even from his evangelics and his base. MAGA but do not send me to die in Iran. Eh?
22
This is ethnic cleansing under the shabby guise of immigration enforcement. It is not something demcracies engage in.
18
And be sure to make that Trump'd up military parade segregated and pure.
12
Immigrants serving in our armed forces are more patriotic americans than any DJT supporter, never mind DJT himself.
Disgraceful they should be turned away by an obvious menace to our nation, who thinks nothing of abusing children (forcible separation) or extolling the virtues of an avowed enemy of the US
14
Just when you thought this racist, xenophobic president couldn't sink any lower, he comes out with this.
Evidently there's no depths he won't sink to in order to appease his equally racist and xenophobic base.
But what makes this all ao outrageous, is the fact that while Trump clothes himself in the American flag crowing about how patriotic he is, he never once served in the Armed Forces to defend and protect our country.
The sheer hypocrisy and depravity of this fact should not go unnoticed.
SAD.
22
Trump going after serving members of the military, seven Republicans in Russia on the 4th. Devin Nunes and company. This 61 yo former Marine always heard it was the lefties that would sell us out the then USSR.
Turns out it's the Republicans.
35
History has taught us to recognize the little steps toward fascism.
23
The coward who temporarily occupies the White House may have the title of Commander-in-Chief, but he isn't even worthy of shining the boots of these brave men and women.
19
If any of his "die-hard" base has ever served in the military and serious combat I ask you one question...did you say "no thank you don't bother saving my life or standing next to me because you are the wrong color and/or not a citizen?"......
15
Maybe next time Trump holds one of his disgusting lie fests aka rallies, he can ask for 100% white christian American males to sign up for the military? Right then and there, have a recruiting table ready along with a bus to take these real Americans to boot camp. Trump knows from personal experience that the 1% elite avoid serving their country, so who do 'they' want to protect all their money, I mean rights?
This is such a slap in the face to the fine service men and women who have volunteered to serve America. That is the whole point.
14
Rep Congress won’t protect them because they are also nationalist white supremacists. See: History
9
Young people, Do. Not. Join.
16
Can we please stop with the polite labels of xenophobic and nativist and just call Trump what he really is: a stone cold racist? Donald Trump is a racist.
34
This one more example of the racial bias this president has. We must do something.
8
And all those policies coming from a draft dodger during the Vietnam War.
18
The bigotry never ends.
5
Did the Obama administration even exist? It appears that nothing has happened (except Obamacare) nor the enforcement of policies until Trump became president. And why is it so hard for the Times to use the word "illegal" immigrant?
6
You are misinformed. When I want to know the truth about something I go search for it. It makes me sad to know there are people that willfully allow themselves to be lied to. For the life of me I cannot understand why anyone would refuse to acknowledge facts. Do yourself a favor and look for the truth. It isn't even hard to find.
3
Nonsensical .
Trump’s racism and bigotry is on display from
sea to shining sea.
12
Trump goes after those who are willing to lay their life on the line for their country yet he himself used dubious medical deferments to escape the draft. Not surprising for this is the same Coward in Chief who has attacked a former POW in John McCain to going after gold Star families who wont bend the knee for him. I salute these young men and women for they know the true meaning of national service and self sacrifice.
8
I can't find the same animus against immigrants that I have in other comments on pieces on immigration. The MIC is sacrosanct apparently. Granted putting ones life on the line is orders of magnitude different than being willing to run a chicken plucker. Out-sourcing national defense didn't end well for Rome. Remember the Goths? The schizophrenic nature of the immigration debate has got my head spinning. For the record, I have worked side by side with illegal immigrants and have evolved away from the "They took our jobs mentality".
2
Trump’s malignant xenophobia leeching down into our military is one of his most disgusting attacks on what used to be considered a positive American attribute. Sadly his actions here are just one more negative mark, among many, that highlight his total unfitness for the job this nation foolishly handed him. Shame on Secretary of Defense Mattis too for letting this happen.
9
Remarkable essay; loved every word.
How dare the Cadet-Bone-Spurs-in-Chief destroy the hopes and dreams of those who appreciate America and will defend it regardless of their countries of origin!
It saddens me that the Trumpet continues to remain in office as our prezzz i dunce, tearing this country into shreds, and insulting people of every nation on earth, except maybe those we consider risks...PRNK, Russia, etc.
Those who can (mentally and physically) serve, should all be permitted to serve their full enlistment periods. God save America. Thank you for your service!
US Army, 'Nam Era
5
Is there no end to the lengths that this person in the Oval Office will exhibit in destroying the fabric of OUR country? Perfect Manchurian Candidate! Refer to the original movie by same name.
10
How utterly ironic. Trump, his father, his grandfather, his sons, his son-in-law and his daughters, all shirked military service. The Trumps have enjoyed the fruits of better people's sacrifices. And, yet, Trump can inflict another insult on immigrants who have built and protected this country. What a bunch of treasonous, ungrateful grifters they are!
11
When will this national disgrace end.
15
No problem. We'll trade the sons and daughters of the GOP and Dems, 1:1, for every Soldier/Sailor/Marine/Coasty that is actively serving, and getting discharged without reason. Right?
7
What irony: The commander in chief, a draft dodger too cowardly to serve, now dismisses, without cause, men and women brave enough to put their lives on the line for their adopted country.
8
More disgust from Trump. Egregious and un American.
7
It’s so sad. My father and his family struggled to gain entry into US to escape Nazi Austria. In 1939 they made it after a harrowing escape.
His papers called him a refugee without a country. He went on to fight in World War 2 and was granted citizenship as a result.
17
My father's story was similar. He served in a unit interrogating German prisoners and gained his citizenship. I assume Trump would have drummed him out. General Mattis, speak up now. or forever live in shame.
4
Immigrants in the military--the latest, maybe, but not the only targets. LGBTQ in the military. LGBTQ in public stores. Voting rights. Casual shooting of black men. Disproportionate imprisonment of minorities. Attacks on voting. On education. On women's rights to choose. islamophobia... All blessed with selected passages from the Bible. Shame on Trump for this creeping rot.
8
Trump hates people who are better than he is. The most obvious example of this envy, of course, is Barack Obama, a well-educated, cultured, classy black man who is much more respected throughout the world. Similarly, Trump has a special animus towards men who have served in the military. At his latest campaign rally, he gratuitously attacked war heroes John McCain and George H.W. Bush. The thought of immigrants covering themselves in battlefield glory clearly rankles him, too, no doubt because he earned the nickname Cadet Bone Spurs by dodging military service.
15
Well, there you have it. Once Trump gets rid of all the "brown" and other non-white people in the armed forces, the way will be clear for all of those privileged, eager-to-serve (Midwestern) white boys who have been denied this opportunity for so long !!! And as a bonus, they ALREADY have citizenship. Just get them drafted (if they don't have bone spurs and haven't all run to sign up already) and start shipping them off to Syria, or the Congo, or better yet Venezuela, where Trump has said he wants to invade next. Such opportunities !!! Full employment !!!
Oh, and Stephen Miller will, be made the Colonel leading the charge of the lily white troops.
(And yes, I am white. And my husband served in Vietnam.
12
Another very direct example of Trump willingly undermining national security just to excite his base with anti-immigrant prejudice.
P.S. “the prosecution and interment of asylum seekers” - I'm [almost] sure that's an unfortunate typo for “internment”.
8
Rob, we all know Trump dodged the deployment to Vietnam with an unique excuse of having a bone spur in one of his feet.
Now everyone knows the reason why he refused to go to Vietnam like many of our great service members did only because they didn't have a rich and influential daddy like he had.
So they went because they couldn't say they had a 'phantom' pain like Trump said.
So while those poor but very brave men and women of our military went to Vietnam and many of them died for the sake of defending their country's honor, our current illegitimate president went to Howard Stern's radio show and said "Gonorrhea is my personal Vietnam."
Now the same "Bragger-in-Chief" who became the president solely with the Russian help, is discharging the immigrant soldiers in our army like cattle.
He's not considering that these soldiers did such a fantastic job in George Bush's illegal wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
And with many of them like Lance Cpl. Jose Gutierrez giving up their lives in terrible firefights with the insurgents in both wars, Trump is trampling on their unending devotion for their adopted country by terminating them from the army with nonsensical discharge notices saying their background checks are scratchy. Or their criminal background could not be verified.
Non-citizen soldiers were always the backbone of our army.
Dept. of defense should not discharge them in arbitrary and capricious way just because their totally insane and racist Commander-in-Chief said so.
13
Being a Navy veteran of 20 years, I get a monthly pension. My question is where are veterans' pensions on trump's list of things to take away/destroy?
Surely us veterans are on a list somewhere right? I hear there are some veterans who actually support him and his policies. They aren't real veterans then.
6
Another shameful act by the greatest democracy in the world. But we are powerless as long as the current person remains in the whitehouse. The fact that he is degrading the military is more evidence he is working for Putin.
7
Is this the politization of the military 'a la Trump' ? Is the 'military not supposed to be at the service of the nation's security, instead of the party in power? This type of 'arrangement' is seen in other regions of the world regularly, to our shame. But in these United States? If there is an abusive, deranged president, where are the other branches of government to stop this nonsense, asleep at the wheel?
8
This is appalling. They're good enough to die for us, but not to join us? And maybe not even good enough to die for us?
8
Shameful ! However, Trump is not a Xenophobe. He IS a BIGOT. There is a considerable difference between the two. A Xenophobe is simply averse to all things foreign. Trump has a clear preference for Norwegians, Eastern Europeans and so on. A bigot, on the other hand, hates everybody that does not share color of skin, religion, racial identity etc.
Having a bigoted commander in chief has to be grating our service members which in many ways reflects the diversity of the country.
8
It must be severely discouraging for immigrants who have opted in to our military to discover that every recruit knows more about the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the Geneva Convention than the swindler and fool being addressed as their Commander-in-Chief.
7
And as Trump chases out immigrants, and descendants of immigrants who don’t want to separate families, and people of color who are appalled by Trump’s policies, who’s going to serve? Do we suddenly have a large cadre of white middle class Trump voters lining up to serve?
Let’s not forget that many of those Trump voters are older. This policy is just one more betrayal of the young by the old—one more hallmark of this administration.
9
If Trump doesn't want immigrants in the military, I suggest they draft the sons (and maybe daughters) from Trumps loyal fan base. If they don't want immigrants, maybe these young boys and girls can fight our senseless wars. Seems once again, those from disadvantaged backgrounds are having to do the dirty work. In this case, military service offered them a path to citizen ship. There is no pleasing the bigoted Donald Trump and his cruel followers. Trump is incapable of thinking his way through any issue. Immigration is the thorniest and now he has hit rock bottom with this ploy.
5
Trump the draft dodger ( he evaded military service 3 times with the fabrication of "bone spurs" ....but not even sure which foot) now turns his evil eye on those who actually ARE serving. Is there not bottom to the well of the destruction Trump wreaks on our American democracy? Everywhere we look we see the destruction of our values, our honor and our laws. But we must keep on keeping on.....our children and our grandchildren deserve democracy and NOT dictatorship.
7
What do Rickover, Kosciusko, Lafayette, Von Stueben, Gabreski, and Tibor Rubin all have that Trump doesn't? Honorable government and military service.
12
which minuscule slice of the populous will be his next target. this smacks of outright xenophobia and racism.
These men and women hold up their part of the contract and this guy thinks he can move the goal line without a reason other than his GUT and his GUTS thinking.
i remember the last time i used my GUT for brains. lets just say it was not a pleasant outcome. and my GUT was overruled by my brain. Go figure. Brains over guts. someone might suggest to the boss to give brains a shot now and then cause GUT is out of control.
1
So people that are willing to swear allegiance to defend this country from all enemies both foreign and domestic, which means they are willing to put there life on the line, are not deemed worthy by President Draft Dodger.
There is only one member of our military that needs to go and that is the Commander an Chief.
12
Trump treason, continued, under the phony cover of "national security." (Note: true national security was NEVER the purpose of the Department of Homeland Security--it was always intended to be the Ministry of Fear and Intimidation where ALL people were potential enemies.)
Just look at the GOP lawmakers come to Moscow to celebrate the 4th of July with their new bff, Putin & Co. (albeit without Putin). It's obvious that they have no loyalty to their voters, their states, or the Constitution, but they're seeking to feed at Putin's trough, just like the guy they brought into the White House.
2
President Trump's offenses against decency and humanity are relentless. I'm beginning to believe that his depravity and repulsiveness have no lower bounds.
13
May I remind all of immigrants Marquis de LaFayette, Friederich Von Steuben, Tadeus Kosciuzo, Kazmir Pulaski, John Shalikashvili, Francis Gabreski, Samuel Dreben, Hyman Rickover, John Otto Siegel, Tibor Rubin, just to name a few, who contributed alongside hundreds of thousands of their brothers, rising to general, admiral, winning medals of honor, and representing us all?
4
Trump needs to watch it here...we all know he needs a war in the near future to keep this circus on the road. Since no one from the zip codes that donate to him will send their sons or daughters into the service, all he has left of his all volunteer army, are the zip codes of his base and, yes, immigrants. Donald, better go easy here, you will need all the help you can get in Iran or North Korea or Venezuela.
11
He will just use our tax dollars to purchase mercenaries to fight the war instead of the volunteer army. He has a large piggy bank and he (and his appointees) are not afraid to use it!
1
Wow, how can this administration claim patriotism? This step to their goal of a Totalitarian government is as appalling as imprisoning toddlers.
4
This president is racist to the core. Lately I have noticed this paper use the word "nativist" when "racist" is appropriate. A native of this country is not white. Natives of this country are the various Indian tribes. Please let's not attempt a euphemism, especially an inaccurate euphemism, when a perfectly good word and description exists. Racism is, in fact, racism. And this describes the actions of the president and his loyalists.
6
Yet another disgraceful un-American display of racism and ignorance by Trump with the Republicans in Congress cowering unconscionably. I never thought I'd again see this kind of blatant and transparent bigotry in my country, least of all being perpetrated by our own presidency. America you can do better than this!
15
Apparently, there is no bottom to the cruel, spiteful, and un-American actions Trump will take to harm immigrants.
3
This development needs to be on the front page of every newspaper.
This is, like the separation of children from their parents, yet another shady plot, probably hatched by Stephen Miller, that this administration hopes goes unreported and ignored.
The hypocrisy, here, is obscene. Our draft dodging demagogue and his rabid toady, neither of whom had the courage to serve this country, working to deny citizenship to those who do.
Absolutely sickening.
2
Let's just say it rather than beat around the bush. Trump is a racist, a white supremacist and a white nativist bent on making America white, and "christian" (intended) again (as if it was a white christian country to begin with).
This action toward immigrants, fostered by our purported commander in chief and further enabled by those in uniform, the uniform I wore for 40 years of service, is disgraceful and not what our country and military is about. We, the military, swear to defend the constitution and people of this country. When we fail that oath, we have failed our country and ourselves.
We, in our failures, become no better than the nativist racist that has darkened the doorway of our White House.
Remember, my military brothers and sisters, there is honor in what we do. If these persons are being cashiered out of the service, make sure it is for cause, and not Trump's cause. If you serve Trump's sad agenda rather than the country, perhaps it is time for you to leave my military as your actions are sullying my military. Period.
5
Why is this happening and who is responsible?
5
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me." Martin Niemöller.
I am a veteran, retired from the U.S. Army after 20 years of service, and the son of immigrants. It was my proudest honor to serve this nation.
In the Army, I found the most dedicated and selfless group of people who hailed from every site on the globe. We were united in common cause, upholding a solemn oath to defend the United States of America and the ideals upon which it was founded.
There is a malevolence which has sickened our dear country, attempting to divide us. Let us not fall prey to the demagoguery which calls out "traitor" to our brothers and sisters in arms who have willingly offered their lives to defend a nation who had not birthed them. Ask who speaks calumny. Challenge the falsehoods and hold them in dishonor.
4
So much for Trump's "I love our military."
4
This bring tears to my eyes. In my family we have been military. I don't know what is wrong with my country. Why is this man trying to destroy everything that is decent and honorable. Why this man is trying to destroy everything that have been fought for with blood and tears? I have always known that we truly have some serious problems within our family structure. What family doesn't? But this? He is trying to send our country into a spin of chaos and hatred. This is not about democrats and republicans any longer. This is about the dismantling of the USA for what purpose I have no idea because this has gone beyond logic, beyond decency. Please America, lets show this man that the majority of us are better than this. Don't let this man and his cronies or whomever is pulling the strings drag us through the sewers with them. We are better than this!! Lets get out and vote in masses to stop the massacre of everything that we have stood for through out the years. The heart of the USA is being deeply gutted by this administration led by a man that reminds me of many others throughout history. I thought we have been growing but alas the past events have showed me differently. This people most be stopped from sending us back to use camps like we did with the Japanese, and the fear of McCarthy era. This reminds me of that and more. History repeat itself in so many ways because humanity have short memories. Please let us not forget our dark past. If we forget.......
8
Our shameful history with Iraqis and Afghans who acted as translators and served in other capacities helping the American military is one glaring example how selfishly we can act with regard to non-citizens associated with or in the military. The cruelty of taking such actions to the extremes of the Trump Administration's nativist agenda needs to be stopped.
9
If anyone is a security risk it's Trump and his ties to Russia. He doesn't speak or read any foreign language and is unable to get any concessions from N. Korea.
9
This nation made a commitment to immigrants who served in its military that they would have expedited citizenship. That was a deal.
By putting on a uniform, they dedicated their lives to serve their adopted country. We have now reneged on that commitment. Furthermore, discharging them as security risks will burden them for the rest of their lives.
This is shameful.
13
Trump's xenophobic nativist agenda is now extending to removing the path to citizenship for immigrants serving in the US military. Kirstjen Nielsen has proven she is totally unfit to lead the Dept of Homeland Security, and General James Mattis, Secretary of Defense, has kowtowed too long to president Trump. We are on the cusp of damaging morale in the military and further killing our democracy under Donald Trump.
Congress must protect immigrant recruits in our armed forces, fighting for America in their path to naturalization. If not, Trump will continue to ravage our society and culture as he has done in the past 17 months he's been the most unfit and bigoted president in American history. Are soldiers' right no longer sacred? Do we not honour soldiers for their sacrifices on foreign battlefields to preserve democracy?
In July, two years ago, during his campaign for the 2016 presidency, Trump said the Gold Star Muslim family of Army Captain Humayun Khan "sacrificed nothing and no one" when he was killed in Iraq. Unforgettable sentence against Muslim American parents who sacrificed their son in the US military! Now Trump is maligning Senator John McCain (at the very end of McCain's life) and Senator Elizabeth Warren (whom he has called "Pocahonatas" too many times...). How much more power will Donald Trump steal from our democracy before he is stopped, removed and replaced?
9
The most shocking aspect of the current immigration debate is the willingness of people, including the author, to discount the value of the rule of law. I'm all for fixing the law where it results in undesirable or unfair outcomes. I am not in favor of the now-prevalent attitude that laws we don't like can be ignored. All the blame heaped upon Mr. Trump is fine, but an honest assessment of the immigration mess in this country tells us that it's the result of decades of bad govt policy by both parties. And, both parties need to find a way to compromise and come together in enacting comprehensive reform.
6
Trump is trying to bend the military to his own ends: ban transgenders, discharge immigrants, throw a parade, call up the National Guard to militarize the border, weaponize space, display himself in photo ops with the military to enhance his image, replace civilian agencies in foreign affairs, warehouse babies, and do a whole lot of other things not requested by the military. Trump's actions cannot be countered by slow-rolling by the Pentagon but must be opposed by Congress, which unfortunately has found itself in thrall to Trump. Republican primary candidates attack their opponents in the primary races for being insufficiently supportive of Trump. The only Republican legislators who mildly criticize Trump are those heading for the exits, and even they occasionally back some of his proposals. Although Trump claims to have helped the military through budget increases and possible greater tactical latitude for commanders, in fact he is weakening it by distracting it from its necessary mission and tarnishing it by associating it with him. He further disdains military advice on such matters as NATO, other alliances, North Korea, and Iran. I am sure Pentagon officials are doing a lot of soul-searching.
6
From the AP "Stock said the service members she’s heard from had been told the Defense Department had not managed to put them through extensive background checks, which include CIA, FBI and National Intelligence Agency screenings and counterintelligence interviews. Therefore, by default, they do not meet the background check requirement." "The AP interviewed Calixto and recruits from Pakistan and Iran, all of whom said they were devastated by their unexpected discharges"
I'm sure they are disappointed but are we not supposed to conduct background checks on non-citizen recruits particularly from conflict nations?
3
So if a government fails do its job and conduct required background checks, it's the fault of the individual they didn't investigate? I'd say punish the government officials responsible. Maybe the security people were busy running personal errands for Scott Pruitt and other parasites.
Yes, Before we allow them to serve, NOT after their sacrifice for our country. Despicable.
1
Those regs referred to were put in by this administration. Pakistani, Iranian, Afghan & Iraqi troops were recruited for their language skills, had strict background checks & fought alongside our troops. Thousands of Mexicans have joined to serve & fast track citizenship. Ask yourself just how much back ground checking US born recruits get. Way too little...we take felons & troubled youth. Then ask yourself how many atrocities on prisoners, civilians, & in mass shootings or terrorism attacks here have those immigrant troops committed? Angry white men with guns, too many with military training, are the culprits. For the last forty years 20 out of 3.25 million refugees welcomed to the United States have been convicted of attempting or committing terrorism on U.S. soil, & only three Americans have been killed in attacks committed by refugees—all by Cuban refugees in the 1970s. In the context of immigrant named men with military backgrounds, only 2, one native born & one naturalized have committed terrorist acts recently: US born & educated Nidal Malik Hasan, the U.S. Army major & psychiatrist responsible for Fort Hood, & Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez, a naturalized U.S. citizen, born in Kuwait to Palestinian-Jordanian parents who killed 5 in Chattanooga. Between 1975 and 2015, the “annual chance of being murdered by somebody other than a foreign-born terrorist was 252.9 times greater than the chance of dying in a terrorist attack committed by a foreign-born terrorist.”
1
As a US Navy veteran, I have the utmost respect for these service members who have pledged allegiance to the United States by putting their lives on the line to serve a country they want to be a part of. That’s unlike the majority of Americans who take their citizenship for granted, choosing not to serve.
This is one more embarrassment in an avalanche of embarrassments from this administration. Who’s actually thinking this stuff up?
39
its not so much embarrassment as a political goal of targeting a specific group to indulge one's own prejudices.
call it state sanctioned xenophobia--which groups are next? will whiteness become a criterion for citizenship?
4
These young men and women want to be US citizens so badly that they will put their life on the line by going into the military. We can't fault them for that. But, that person in the White House does. Where does he come up with such hateful, heartless ideas. How wonderful it would be to have a decent, thoughtful. intelligent, etc. President again. We will just have to bide our time until that day.
20
The voting public that backed the end of this military option for immigration is pretty old and creaky, which makes it temporary and is setting up a reversal of this Trump policy in the not too distant future. Would think the governments of Central and South America will get worse before they get better and generate more and more immigration to the U.S. and points beyond. The U.S. is too heavily invested in Hispanic immigration process to abandon it. Make immigration more efficient and easier is the only way forward. The middle class will not grow fast enough over then next 50 years without a steady growth of Hispanic families in the U.S. This latest “agitation” of Hispanic immigration is a stop gap appeal to the Trump base, for kept 2018 election promises. Going forward, the public will be faced with creating a faster immigration process to make up for lost time. It is hard to predict where the next major U.S. war involvement will be, but you can bet Hispanics will be front and center in the armed forces next time around. Voters will be back soon enough to set up pro immigration standards that emphasize the significance of Central Americans, and increasingly South Americans if Venezuela continues to crumble. Faster processing without the military option may be the pathway of the future on the matter of immigration reform, and the speed of processing will be an important milestone.
1
Nobody that can and is close to Trump will do anything to stop this because they agree with him. Otherwise, they’d resign or would have not joined this so-called administration. They are not interested in serving the public, they just want to be Trump’s enablers.
22
Seems to me that there is a lot of unknowns here on both sides. First, how many immigrant troops are there and how many are being discharged? Mr. Cuthbert throws around a lot of old numbers, but the referenced AP article implies that those being discharged are recent enlistees. The Army hasn't stated reasons as yet, but lying on enlistment application is a possibility.
And is there any indication that Trump himself instigated these actions? Of course it's normal for the NYT to impute every action the administration takes to him directly.
5
The Commander-in-Chief is responsible for everything his government does or fails to do. Even worse, these discharges are totally dishonorable and bring dishonor the the military services that participate in them.
4
Trump's long list of unworkable and frankly stupid ideas do nothing to help anyone except Trump's cronies. Like, say, Geo Group, the private-prison company that's charging a fortune to unnecessarily fly stolen children to inaccessible areas, only to put them up in abandoned Walmarts. And, of course, Trump couldn't be bothered with any detailed plans to reunite the children and their families, so some of these Trump child victims will never see their parents again. Ever.
For this mass child abduction alone, Trump should be imprisoned. This is kidnapping on a huge scale. And the Republican Party knows it.
1
kwb
In your zeal to bust them immigrants, to get those nasty things off your country, you ignore the most important, and dangerous, parts of the story.
First is the mere fact that Trump has, as the headline puts it, "targets".
You're gonna love this, I know: Trump has moved well past a 'governing philosophy' (....sorry; I just threw up i mouth a little bit) to full-bore Evil Right, purify the homeland, Nazi-movie, race- hatred and dictatorial control.
Second (and this is very odd coming from Georgia, home of the patriotic pick-up gun rack, Marine decal, "Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" tattoo, 'these colors don't run' patriots) these people, whoever they are, stood up and promised to defend this country, to do the heavy lifting, to place themselves between US and our (self-created) enemies.
Just like so many pure-white boys before them, they did so in part based on a promise from the government they are now sworn to defend to the death.
Apparently none of that matters to you because immigrants.
Your parse of the journalistic situation carries some potential truth. Truth that is so insignificant I guarantee you'd find yourself passionately on the opposite side if these were good old American Boys. Which, by the way, they are.
If the Commander in Chief were held to the same test of loyalty to the country as these immigrants are he would be booted out for being a complete failure--lying, taking advantage of the job for personal gain, putting others at risk, not abiding by the Constitution, disrespect for others. I am certainTrump's offenses far outweigh even the most egregious misdeeds of these volunteer enlistees.
49
Our military has been silent on Trump, as they usually are on political matters. But their continued silence only amounts to acquiescence. Nothing will undermine our credibility more than tacitly sanctioning the interdiction of people who have served our country. This is worse than internment camps. This is trumps macarthyite moment. Roy Cohen would be proud.
18
My own grandfather obtained US citizenship in this way. Every day, every single day, this administration spits in the face of Americans who work hard to contribute and who love their country. My grandfather would be stunned to see what we are becoming.
49
Mine, too! He volunteered, finished basic training and was sent to North Africa, where he waited for a Federal judge to administer the oath of citizenship. After swearing to bear arms to defend his new country, he was sent into front line combat at Monte Porchia (outside of Cassino), then was part of the invasion at Anzio, again in the front, staying there for 6 months, before following the Germans north through Rome to Pisa. His unit earned the Presidential Unit Citation. He would be so ashamed of what our country is allowing to happen...
3
Semper fi, Lance Corporal Gutierrez, as well as all the other young men that come from around the world to become U.S. Marines.
The very last person that should have any say at all about who is in our military and how that should be a path to citizenship is Donald, bone spurs, Trump, who was far too much of a coward to serve his country. What he is doing today is NOT service to his country as many politicians like to claim. He's only serving himself.
When I was in boot camp I well remember Pvts. Gomez, Garza and Guerra and others that served. It did not matter if they were from North or South of the boarder. We were all U.S. Marines when we finished and that is all that mattered.
Donald J. Trump should be so patriotic as these 18 & 19 year old boy/men that have served out country so well in he past.
32
This truly is a diabolical administration that devotes it's time to fracture our society rather than moving forward on issues that would improve the lives of the citizens. It's reached the point, despite Trump being Commander in Chief, for the Pentagon to ignore orders such as discharging active service members who are not citizens but contribute and serve the country with honor.
Congress has let Trump be run away train globally and nationally, institute a Trade War that will be a great cost to the average person, manage to raise the price of gas 50 cents a gallon, alienate allies, praise dictators, spew hate, violence I almost welcome a military coup to oversee an election within 6 months.
25
As a young girl, my father taught me that to hate someone was the same as wishing that person was dead. Sorry Dad.
17
In a long military career I served with non-citizen soldiers constantly. With the abuses being heaped on "the others," (trans, gay, immigrants) our military is starting to abandon its own values and rot from the inside out. It can't operate without the values of dignity and respect. What a great historical example of a military taking the form of its commander in chief. Ironically, the POTUS is a draft dodger who has no concept of public service.
60
Commander-In-Chief Bone Spurs sullies everything he touches. There is not a decent bone in the man's body.
The Republicans who could put a stop to this degradation are spineless cowards, like the moron they support. The people who vote for and support them ? Fill in the blanks yourself starting with ignorant and bigoted.
32
We should not forget that Eisenhower made public statements against Truman’s decision to integrate the military and that Truman warned Ike that if he opposed it he should resign, run for president and reverse the decision. Truman added that if Ike spoke up again he would fire him since Ike had already been a disappointment in his failure to close concentration camps across the disaster of Hitler’s Europe. It took a young officer who saw the camp prisoners a year after the war ended to move Truman to order Ike to feed, clothe and deliver medicine to the Holocaust victims instead of to the populace Ike wanted to win over. Before Trump’s Pentagon undid the promise of citizenship to enlisted foreigners the same Pentagon failed to save translators, spies and supporters of the invasion of Iraq unlike its treatment of Vietnam supporters at high levels who were granted citizenship and financial support. Trump’s version of America is an inferno in which the damned are in charge. His illiterate supporters, most shaped like the word Ohio, will be the first casualties of his economic buffoonery but he will be undone by his abject lifelong personal corruption, to say nothing of his delusions and utter derangement as to how the world works. He hasn’t bankrupted six times and lost ten billion dollars because he’s a genius. He has earned 2 1/4 percent per year since he inherited $200 million 44 years ago. He’s not only a gasbag, he’s a loser who has been left with chump change.
30
The article correctly points out the permissions granted to immigrants to serve in the military with the goal of possible citizenship. It is irrelevant whether or not immigrants are documented or undocumented since centuries-old common precedents include both categories, and it is irrelevant when such discharges occur. Immigrants have served this country since the Revolution. The fact this purge is occurring and the denial of any semblance of due process to those discharged is the outrage. It should be clear to even the most vicious, most vengeful, most irrationally frightened Trump supporter, though blood lust is being quenched, such abuse of power is wrong on a human level and human beings will fight purposely punitive, inhuman acts. This appears to be yet another unnecessary self-inflicted tragedy by the Trump administration and yet another attack on democracy.
18
It’s been recently reported that Trump considered the idea of invading Venezuela early in his term. Since he might be considering that again in order to be in the best shape for winning a second term, wouldn’t he need as many Spanish-speakers as possible in the invasion force? Think about that General Trump.
8
In a daily world of socio-political created, and mantrafied, "alt-facts," fostered diverselessness, unnuanced, UNChristian, faux-"whiteness," enables an identity-Crucifixation of fellow-BE ings. Every day. Not only on Sundays. In sanctuary-less-houses of worship. Taking in the "stranger" in-name-only. All of this enabled by each of US. Within our WE-THEY culture. Since our very original-beginnings! Long before today's "originalists" were even born. A local, regional, to national culture, and nation, structured to violate. In a range of ways. Focusing on a range of selected, and targeted, "the others." It is beyond ironic that POTUS, as a role, currently "acted" by Trump, as a bully, misusing the White-House as a bully-pulpit for seeding disorder and division, is spurring on exclusion. Marginalization of many. Discrimination. Dehumanization of volunteers into OUR armed services, when one considers his own history of "spurs." A diagnosis which kept him from serving in Great America's armed services. It did not constrain him from discriminating, with his father, from housing for THEM. All known facts. Which can be, and are, fictionalized by the all-too human processing of willful blindness. Deadfness. Ignorance. Those of US who choose to serve, in danger's known-unknown, predictable-unpredictable paths, whatever their post-Paradise-ways, and out-of-Africa global-treks, deserve to be respected. Trusted. Cared for. Honored. Not to BE shamed. Shunned. Savaged by stereotypes.
8
Is there any promise this president won't break? On a week of independence celebrations, he persists in bringing shame and dishonor to the nation. Military leaders should be refusing to cooperate in this unspeakable travesty.
30
There is only one word left for us with Trump.
Impeach.
Congress, wake up and do your job.
Signed, a conservative in the middle with the rest of the majority.
25
Tadeusz K was a down-on-his luck 20-something who fled his home country due to the crime of loving a woman whose father didn't think he had the right amount of wealth. He wandered Europe and studied art in Paris. one day he got it in his mind that he would go to America and join the military.
When he arrived in Philadelphia, there was no test--Ben Franklin gave him a simple math test instead. Recruited into the Continental Army, he re-designed the defenses at West Point which were instrumental in blunting the betrayal of Benedict Arnold.
Today, Tadeusz Kosciuszko is one of the most celebrated heroes of freedom. Innumerable statues honor him, as well as the name of the tallest mountain in Australia.
To think that our nation has come to a point that the sacrifices of men and women are willing to give their lives for an IDEA is an insult to all who have fought and sacrificed over the past two centuries of our American experiment.
46
There was a lot more room in the country back then.
1
Oy!
I am disgusted, yes. But am I surprised? No. This is where this administration has been headed. They have other little tricks up their sleeves. For example, they're issuing more NTA's (notices to appear) as a first step to deporting a wider range of people. I also heard that they've formed a denaturalization task force. That means what it implies - revoking citizenship. In the meantime, Trump is tweeting about liberating communities from savage gangs and Democrats letting MS-13 run wild on our streets. Demagogues consolidate power by creating imaginary enemies and preying on people's fears.
26
Some of the immigrants being discharged are Iraqis and Afghanis who aided our troops during the wars in those two countries. Some have family still there. For this, they are considered "security risks."
We all know Trump is shameful.
But even worse is General James Mattis.
29
Now it seems we want a "white" army to defend us. Harry Truman is rolling over in his grave. Having served in the Navy myself for almost 14 years, I know the value immigrants and persons of color bring to military service. How many of the "Trump-preferred" soldiers, marines, sailors and airmen speak Arabic, Farsi, Mandarin Chinese or Pashtun?
When first included in the military, blacks could only work as cooks or stewards. That did not stop Doris "Dorie" Miller from manning an antiaircraft gun as his ship was attacked at Pearl Harbor earning him a Navy Cross.
The military works because it mirrors America. All of America. We demonstrate our values every day by including all who live within its borders in service for the world to see. To see a servicemember salute an officer who is born in a foreign land or a person of color speaks louder about the value we place on inclusion than any written policy.
Like so much else, Mr. Trump would have us throw this away. Shame on him and on us for letting him get away with it.
28
This is personal for me and my family. My grandfather immigrated from Ireland around 1914. He was hard-working, but with little education. He joined the US Army during World War I, fought in France and returned to the US to receive his US citizenship in 1919. My grandparents gave my father the middle name of Victor to celebrate the Allies' victory in World War I.
No greater patriot could one find. My grandfather always had an American flag brightly and happily flying in front of his house--in fact, the only one on the street. Three of his five children volunteered to serve in the military during World War II.
My grandfather and father would be shocked, appalled and downright embarrassed if they were alive. They both valued their experience in the military in large part because their shared their service with an extraordinarily diverse set of individuals.
Showing such hurtful disrespect toward immigrant-soldiers is un-American. And undermines the respect that characterizes the member of the military. Shame on the Trump administration!!
27
This is not right. Congress should intervene.
14
This Republican-dominated Congress will never lift a finger against Trump. They've proven this over and over again since inaugurating the swindler who takes his orders from Vladimir Putin.
1
Ha, ha. Good one.
One wonders if the military would have met its recruitment goals if not for these very brave people. The very least we can give them is citizenship for risking both life and limb. The government is great about touting all the great things the US is about, until the time of reciprocity, then conditions apply. The wonder is people still believe them, like the recruiters in my era.
13
It is sadly beyond Irony that the patriotism and dedication shown by many Immigrant members of the armed forces to the U.S goes far beyond the patriotism and commitment ever shown to or observed by Donald Trump to his own country whether by escaping the Military Draft due to bone spurs, to not releasing his Tax records vs those provided by ALL Presidential in recent history.
Trump is a dishonourable example of a man not in service to or having shown any dedication to his country...but of an individual fortunate to be born into wealth and inheriting it and then exploiting, taking advantage of and manipulating the various lurks, perks, benefits and opportunities available to him and made possible by the country that allowed so much, to be further and fully exploited by behaviours, avoidances, scams and less noble opportunities made, taken and utilised that money and privilege can always only bring and be manipulated for his own further personal gain, to one such as he, so willing and able to use such things to be put into the service of just his own personal desires, greed and selfishness, regardless of the losses, damage and harm he brings to his country and the many others who have lost and suffered to feed his needs and further success at all their expense.
The same man who now wants to personally disenfranchise those who have shown such commitment and dedication to the nation they serve, the same man who has spent his life exploiting it for his own personal gain.
28
Can someone think of a better way for someone to achieve legal residency status than to “pay” for it through military service. Any argument posed against undocumented immigrants, such as living off the backs of citizens or rampant MS13 criminal proclivity, fail any reasonable test with military service. My brother served 8 years active and another dozen as a reservist and attests there is nothing “free” about such service.
This is so much ado about nothing more than stirring up a populist pot of muck. To no end.
9
I spent many years in military service and can personally attest that people I knew in this category were dependable and patriotic without exception
25
They put their lives on the line in service of this country and they're somehow not good enough? Vote this ignoramus and his enablers out.
47
Congress won't do squat about this travesty!
Republicans in Congress are lined up behind the loon in the White House because they are without character or conscience!
Christ, the traitors are even going to Moscow and lining up behind the murderous thug Putin. We are watching trump go into melt-down and since he has nuclear weapons, this could get very dangerous!
Unless a few of the cowards find their voice, we are doomed!
35
Once again, the N Y Times lies to its readers, by failing to use the adjective "Illegal" in front of the word "immigrants".
One would think that the Times and its staff advocate breaking the law, when it suits their purposes...
6
Are you sure they're illegals? Trump is a race baiter, right out of the 50s. Does he make you proud?
3
There is nothing in the article or in the linked AP article that indicates how any of the people being discharged got to the United States. There is no reason to assume any of them are in the US illegally. Objectivist is not objective.
4
Did you read the entire article? There is no wide brush painting of those labelled as immigrants. That being said, your Supreme Leader of an America within America circumvented the draft to avoid military service. Most people I know and have known in the military will take a brave immigrant, regardless of the label, over a yellow bellied, sucker punching coward like Donald J. Trump.
I think we need to get the facts straight before we go off half-cocked. Otherwise, it will backfire.
As I understand it these 40 were not yet in basic training. Many people, immigrants and/or American citizens, sign up and then later are not allowed in for various reasons.
9
muddy...the conflating of "immigrants" and those "without legal documentation," continues to impede debate.
and the congress, true to its over-perked, under-worked self has already (says chuck schumer) decided to avoid a necessary legislative cleanup.
the tangle we're in is due in part to the lack of legislation...obama warned that presidential action did not have the force of law and was vulnerable to obfuscation...look at the present situation with trump's version of the obama policy, (which separated families), a presidential order, modified by an adjustment and now subject to further adjustment by a court (an appeal to extend family reunification deadlines) and so, like changing carpets over a rotting floor, we have discarded carpets piling up as the floor continues to rot...and the congress, charged with making the laws that underlie policies, continues in dereliction, wagering that trump bashing is safer than risking votes that may alienate their base.
the service avenue to citizenship is one of the best ways to vet an individual, to assess this or her commitment to responsible citizenship (this veteran would support national service for born citizens, too)...but there should be no way an undocumented person (one telling "fibs" aka sworn lies, punishable by laws for the rest of us) should be in the USA and certainly not in uniform...those who are here (in or out of uniform) due to weak borders should be heard, evaluated as all recruits are, per present DOD policy.
7
The military does its homework after you fight side by side with your brothers and sisters in the trenches of war. Only when its time for your reward, retirement, VA benefits, citizenship, do they do this scouring of your record. Now these people are bad, risky people yet they were fine when we had our soldiers' lives depending on them in battle.
66
The other article on ths topic says that this is happening despite the military not being able to meet its recruitment quotas. So is Trump deliberately trying to weaken the American military? Add to this the alienation of our allies and the open support of some of the worlds worst dictators, and I have to wonder, is he still trying to fulfill Bannon's world vision, or is it something even more nefarious? Meanwhile, congressional Republicans continue to stare at their navels while the country burns.
24
Trump is fast running out of people and institutions to denigrate. His Montana diatribe was akin to a failing, second-rate stand-up comic. The only one thinking it funny, his own feeble brain. Even then, there were moments when even he didn't understand what he was saying. But the unfunny comic thing; if people are laughing it is solely to placate him. Anyone laughing for real is cruel, because they are laughing at a very sick man. No normal human has ever denigrated so many people, so often, for no other purpose than to service his own insatiable ego. If it weren't for his money, he'd be in a home and mostly forgotten by his own family long ago.
114
My son fought alongside immigrants like these in Iraq and Afghanistan, in some of the ugliest fighting there. They were brave and as committed to America as any of the fourth or third generation Americans who showed up. They fought and sometimes died alongside those Americans. The soldiers in those combat units knew them as “brothers”. They would have died for them. That should be enough
My son would confer citizenship to any one of those soldiers. At a time when recruitment was difficult and 96% of American kids refused to even consider military service, these young
People showed up. At a time when long term American parents were doing everything possible to dissuade their kids from joining the military, these kids showed up.
We should show up for them. Disgraceful.
And yet we have already shipped thousands of these guys out of the country. And now we are dumping willing recruits. What is wrong with us? What problem are we solving? Sick!
101
I was a career member of our country’s true “melting pot,” as the military is characterized by a prior writer. It’s an outright shame that immigrant service members were discharged. This is just another one of Trump’s self-defeating policies under the guise of making America great again. This man is destroying our country. Folks need to change the composition of Congress in November.
56
My father lied about his age when he crossed the border from Canada at the age of 17y,10mo, to join the US Army and fight in post-war Japan, 1946. He served honorably, was discharged, and 4 years later, became a naturalized citizen.
His citizenship was in return for his service.
Those who came and served in our military entered into an unwritten contract. Shame. Shame. Shame on us for breaching that trust.
Sidenote: My mother received her green card within the first year of her entry to the US, also from Canada. I guess the wait times back then were much shorter than today's 21 year (minimum) wait.
18
Good- being a mercenary for us (which shouldn't be allowed in the first place) shouldn't be a golden ticket to citizenship. We are becoming like the Roman legions of the 300s and 400s- increasingly made up of the people we're supposed to be fighting.
4
It's one thing to change a policy that you think is wrong, but another to break a promise after people have already served. Who exactly are we "supposed to be fighting" in this context?
30
"supposed to be fighting?" Howzat?
2
There should be enough Spanish speaking soldiers in our military now to assemble a large peace-keeping force for central America. If that was not the goal from the start it sure makes sense now.
The gangs will surely develop a new and docile attitude.
3
isn't the whole point of having a military is to secure borders from foreign invaders, or as this article puts it, to segregate citizens from immigrants who are not citizens?
1
No.
Another disgusting blot on our national character. This is becoming a frightening and depressing country to be part of.
47
The US military is following the example of the British (Irish Brigades, Indian Army, Hessians), the French (Foreign Legion, colonial troops), the Romans (Spanish Legions, recruitment of Germans and later Goths) the Byzantines (Viking Guard) and many other nations and empires.
In my boot camp in 1972 there were Samoans, Filipinos, Mexicans, a Taiwanese, a Korean. In all, at least 20% of my training company was foreign born. 4 Star Generals Powell and Shakashvilli were foreign born yet served in a Vietnam War that Trump dodged because of bad feet. Yet he plays golf weighing over 250 pounds.
107
Trump's senior adviser Stephen Miller and his ilk find more people to lay their hate upon. Trump has another political toy for his rally.
19
I served in the US Army from 71 - 73, at a time when Trump should have served HIS country. Instead, he played the rich boy option and used dishonest means to avoid the draft. Now this "patriot", who demands a presidential parade, wants to deny citizenship to immigrants who enlisted and risked, and lost, their lives to defend our country and he wants to deport them? Is nothing sacred to this poor excuse for a man??
86
What about his followers? He's catering to them, he did not invent this stuff
1
Jose Gutierrez is more patriotic than Trump who had a toe or something issue that prevented him to serve in the military. Trump is showing his truest colors, is just racism. He is going after the legal immigrants as well.
So I feel that president might go after Americans born in other countries and finally against Americans born here but with the "wrong" religion or skin color.
35
Rob Cuthbert rightly suggest that "Both the Senate and House Armed Service Committees should restart their efforts to protect immigrant recruits. These bodies should also begin investigating the arbitrary and capricious discharge of noncitizen recruits."
Not gonna' happen. Should happen. But not gonna'.
With the #GOPTaxScam not gaining traction as in issue on which Republicans can campaign in the mid-terms, Trump has decided to make demonizing immigrants---whether documented or undocumented, whether a 5 year-old who is unable to reconnect with a parent or a mother already deported to Guatemala who is unable to reconnect with a 7 year-old child whose location in the U.S. is unknown because this administration didn't care enough to keep records and has, uh, "lost" much of whatever paperwork it did have---the GOP campaign theme for the mid-terms.
In other words, the GOP's primary campaign theme is rooted in abject amorality, abject cruelty, child abuse and numerous violations of international law and norms.
And elected GOP officials have gone mute. Well, except when they respond to angry inquiries about these military personnel and children/parents at the border and DACA kids by asking, "When are we going to investigate Hillary's emails?"
54
The author argument fails short in many ways. The military's role in securing our borders , which the Coast Guard has done for decades, has been expand to include other parts of the armed services. Given the vast area that needs to be monitored, engaging the military to assist in the process is reasonable. It was done during WWII and the practice should not have been abandoned.
The nationalities of the 40 soldiers dismissed is conveniently omitted in the narratives, as is any reference the carnage at Ft Hood.
Perhaps if there'd had been a risk assessment oexisting military personnel, the mass shooting at Ft. Hood might have been avoided.
Another left leaning article devoid of facts!
2
Perhaps you should get the facts before you post. The shooter at Ft. Hood was not an immigrant. He was born in Virginia. In other words, he was a natural born citizen.
7
The shooter in Fort Hood was born in the US and am an American citizen. So his situation has no relation to the discharge of immigrants described in the article. That tragedy was not prevented because army employees and the FBI were made aware of the shooter’s radicalization.
These recruits are in the US legally and it is appropriate to vet them carefully, but what appears to be going on is either incompetence or sheer discrimination.
9
Exactly, Fred. Thank you. And do you suppose George's statement that: "It was done during WWII and the practice should not have been abandoned" refers to the internment of both immigrant and US-born Japanese and their entire families in concentration camps during the war? Yeah, that was a noble episode of American history all right.
3
Disclosure: United States Navy, retired.
Any person from wherever, who joins the United States military and means what he says when he takes the oath of enlistment should not only be allowed to stay but encouraged to continue on his path to citizenship. There is no more true way to show your commitment to the United States than to be willing to lay down your life for the nation if necessary. Or so is my opinion.
Then there is Mister Trump. Mister Bone-Spur Trump. And about him I shall keep my opinion to myself.
68
Anna, we need the voices of retired military personnel in this conversation, and I, for one, hope you speak up, speak out, and speak loud.
Your voice means more than a hundred voices of people who did not serve in the military, and whose closest connection, like mine, is a father and four uncles who served in the Air Force and the Marines.
I meant loudly. Speak loudly!
3
You are calling on Congress to step in. The GOP controlled House and Senate has abdicated all responsibility to do anything other then what there "leader" wants. They get paid with taxpayer money to ignore the majority of what the population wants. I have a long list of what they should be doing. My guess is they will act on this the same way. Silence.
49
How many respondents have personal experience of the military? I haven't. But from close family members, of whom I'm very proud, I know that even a two-year stint is not a cakewalk. I have always thought of the US military as the very essence of what it is to be American - a melting pot where young people from many backgrounds learn discipline, undergo gruelling training and/or deployment, risk or even lose their lives for the rest of us and, all going well, get to pursue further education on the GI Bill.
This is a total-immersion experience of citizenship. More American-born people, not least our legislators, could do with it. To damage or undermine it is shameful, terrible. The first thing my Irish-born husband was given when he arrived in the US in the 'Sixties was a draft card. Because he was teaching, he wasn't called up.
26
Why do we continue to leave Trump in office? No finer path to citizenship exists than defending a country you wish to belong to.
One stone at a time our great nation of immigrants is dismantled. One trump decision at a time makes me makes less proud to be an American and surer this union will not stand.
77
ESPECIALLY since Trump holds the military in such low regard. It took a lot of butt kissing, phone calling, and looking the other way to enable him to avoid military service. Every time he looks at a military person or military family I bet the one thought running through his (supposed) mind is simple: Suckers!
2
Why do we leave Trump in office?
Because we are becoming the most morally and intellectually bankrupt nation in the industrialized 'free' world; Trump is merely a manifestation of that.
Our Congress, charged with representing the people--most of whom rejected Trump--have been reduced to hypocritical cowards by this know-nothing fool and his minions.
But that is how a cancer like Trump is able to infect our government and may finally succeed in bringing an end to our hard-fought democratic society.
1
If Trump’s actions cause that people here legally, including lawful asylees, are being ejected from our military or discouraged from joining it when our laws permit it, then what he is doing is wrong. However, I’m not at all sure that this is the case; and the wording of this op-ed suggests that the author’s argument seeks to defend the “right” of illegal aliens to serve in our military; and THAT’S wrong.
Military service is not legitimate “community service” to which a lawbreaker is sentenced as social payback for criminal activity. You don’t cross our border illegally and get forgiveness and a Green Card by spending a couple of years in the Army.
The exception to this, to my mind, are “Dreamers”, brought here illegally as children by illegal alien parents who have been raised as Americans and are by culture American. I favor first shutting the spigot on the border of illegal entry then granting “Dreamers” immediate citizenship. And I’d favor allowing them military service until this happens, and I’d award them points for the service. But I’d deport the parents.
Yet the author gives the strong sense that what he argues is for any adult who knowingly entered the U.S. illegally to obtain a get-out-of-jail-free card by service in our military. That’s an argument for rendering our immigration laws meaningless, for open-borders, and it’s not salable in America. Or was he NOT paying attention on 8 November 2016?
1
Mr Luettgen:
I see nothing in the article to suggest any of these recruits are here illegally. Click on the link to the AP article and play the video of the lawyer (retired Lt Col) who's helping these people. The fact is these people signed on to the program years ago and it appears the Army arbitrarily decided they didn't want to expend any more resourses on background checks. They are being discharged or being denied entry into the Army with a potentially negative and false label of failing a background check.
As a retired military officer, I can tell you from personal experience immigrant service members serve this country well. They appreciate what this country has to offer that US citizens simply take for granted.
Your remark about open borders is a lot of Trump hype. If you really care about this country, worry about how someone like Jared Kushner can lie on his clearance paperwork (a felony) and not be charged. Kushner had access to the most highly classifed documents at the highest level with an "interim clearance". Or Mike Flynn, forced to resign as NSA chief in less than a month, who acted on behalf of Russian businesses without registering as an agent and apparently without the knowledge of Trump.
For Trump to go after these people when he has clearance issues with the likes of Kushner and Flynn is astoundingly duplicitous. Not to mention Paul Manafort who worked with a pro-Russian Ukranian president Viktor Yanukovych, receiving millions in fees.
80
In this era of perpetual war, service in the American military is tough, demanding and dangerous. The notion that permitting undocumented aliens to earn citizenship through such service would unleash a flood of migrants across our borders is beyond absurd.
Once again, Richard, you defend the indefensible, and you do so by claiming (without any proof) that your position is politically popular. I doubt it, but regardless of popular attitudes, enabling illegal immigrants to earn citizenship through risking their lives serves the country's interests. If enough Americans were willing to serve in the military, there would be no need to turn to foreigners to fill the ranks.
18
You seem to be among the group, including trump, not paying attention on 11/8/16. The majority of voters said NO to trump. Those willing to die for our country deserve our respect. trump deserves all the disrespect he receives. He is cold-hearted, xenophobic, racist, etc.
2
In general, you must be a citizen or lawful permanent resident to join the military. An exception, MAVNI allows for the enlistment of certain non-citizens -- those with non-immigrant visas or other lawful temporary status -- AND highly specialized skills -- specifically, medical professionals and those with specified native foreign language skills.
Most recruits go through the Delayed Entry Program (DEP) while being screened for full enlistment eligibility -- the delays for non-citizens can be lengthy, there can be any number of reasons why recruits are not ultimately accepted, and those reasons are not always made clear -- no doubt, areas for improvement.
The path to citizenship is not the problem. If you're ultimately accepted for enlistment (and meet certain requirements), then you already have an expedited path to citizenship -- either through INA 328 (Naturalization through One Year of Qualifying Service During “Peacetime”) or INA 329 (Naturalization through Qualifying Service during Periods of Hostilities). -- Note that we have been in a "designated period of hostility" since Sept. 11, 2001 until the present! -- Also note that under INA 328, the applicant must first be a lawful permanent resident, but under INA 329, the applicant need not be a lawful permanent resident, and in some cases, need not be physically present in the U.S.
In any case, the military was never meant to be a backdoor to lawful immigration -- the narrow exception of MAVNI does not change that.
14
The people that Congress serve (corporations and the rich and powerful) don't care about this issue so nothing will be done about it. End of story.
32
As a Viet Nam vet I am appalled that this president thinks so little of men and women who are not yet citizens to deny them a path to citizenship. This is the man whose ""spurs" kept him from doing his duty for his country.
272
Of the thousands of foreign recruits in the US military, 40 have been either discharged or are having their legality questioned. It certainly seems logical to evaluate the risk, and err on the side of caution. Foreign recruits who meet the vetting will not be under suspicion.
1
Hey Mr Fitzer
I am a combat Vietnam veteran who served as a infantry platoon leader with the 9th ID in 1968. I didn’t see your creds as to where and what your service MOS was in Vietnam. Only 1 in 7 veterans in Vietnam served in a combat capacity.
Trump's view is very practical, yes there are security risks with illegals being in our military. We want to avoid that.
Big Picture:
No more free ride for other countries via NATO, illegal immigrants here or coming to USA and trade. The entire world is becoming nationalist, watch the news.
PS By the way I am appalled at BO's apology tour for our soldier and military personnel who risked their lives for their country and someone else's country.
Pogo:
If you're appalled by President Obama's "apology tour" you must be totally aghast at Trump's sucking up to Kim Jung Un and Putin.
You seriously think North Korea is no longer a nuclear threat to the US? Every intelligence agency in the US says Russians interfered in US elections and they're poised to do it again. Trump says both are good leaders.
You okay with Trump revealing Top Secret/SCI level information to the Russian ambassador and foreign minister. It most likely put an agent at risk. How about Kusher allowed to lie on his security clearance, Mike Flynn representing Russians, or Paul Manafort working for the former pro-Russian Ukranian president?
If you call it an Obama "apology", what Trump's doing with our adversaries is something that can't be spoken in a public post.
This immigration debate Trump has set off is kind of eye opening. here today. Between free public education, public benefits and now veterans benefits available to anyone regardless is the are legal citizens or not, makes it more than obvious why everyone in the world wants to come here, illegally all the better. Americans should have it so good with someone else paying for it for them. Yeah, I know, illeagal immigrants pay taxes too, which is why they only want to be paid in cash.
6
"Public benefits" are not provided to illegals although some children may be enrolled in school. As to illegals demanding to be paid in cash? Sorry, it is the employer who does that to avoid being caught and also to avoid paying employment taxes. Suggest you read the report on the meat packing plant in Tennessee that was recently found to be employing about 100 illegal workers.
8
John:
Note that many of the people speaking out against Trump are veterans, like me. First, none of the recruits and service members are here illegally. Second, these folks can wind up in war zones in service to this country. Didn't you read about Lance Corporal Gutierrez? An immgrant killed in action. Third, these people appreciate the safety and freedoms of America that native Americans take for granted.
BTW, if these immigrants are freeloaders, why isn't ICE doing raids at welfare offices, bars, or beaches? Instead they're raiding meat processing plants and farms doing hard labor. Immigrants, legal or illegal have always done the dirty work. For example, the Transcontinental Railroad was built by Chinese laborers in the 1860s.
Finally, how do these undocumented aliens compare to Melania Trump who failed to provide documents to show she didn't work illegally when she had a tourist visa which is illegal. If Trump is so focused on immigrants breaking the law, he should start at home.
17
Disrespect trump, not immigrants who want to serve our country. trump owes us his tax returns, I think they will be very telling. trump disrespects the First Amendment, every citizens should be calling for his impeachment.
9
Re: Targeting the Dreamers in the Military. I'm more certain with the passage of time that there is a secret department in the White House whose sole function is to dream up the "Outrage of the Day". They run it by Stephen Miller for tweaking to make sure it is truly offensive and insensitive, give Sarah Huckabee Sanders a heads-up so she can prepare spin for the press corp, and then present it to the President as part of his Daily Brief. The members of this group receive a bonus if the outrage they come up with is really, really sick.
220
Bannon is probably phoning it in.
2
Mean while while we all watch the daily. “ trumpian outrage” trump and his friends and keepers do the real work of dismantling our republic. Sad.
My family has a proud history of serving in the military all the way back to the Revolution. I am so glad I talked my son out of joining the reserves. Trump is not the Commander in Chief I would want him to serve under. Shameful.
330
The Goodell family also goes back to Puritan Salem and we have served in most of our 20 generations. One of my sons, aged 30, applied for the infantry after 9/11 and humped a sniper rifle in SADR city. The other went to the Peace Corps.
Forty out of thousands is hardly a crisis. I would like to know the reasons. Medical? Changed their minds about service? The military has always been in the vanguard of color blindness.
10
I heard on TV news that one person was denied because his parents owned property that he would inherit in his home country. Also, after he became a US citizen, he wanted to sponsor his fiancée.
3
Was.
2
“Always been a vanguard of color blindness”?
That explains why it was almost 100 years after the civil war before the military was truly integrated.
“Blood that is soaked in the sands of a beach is of one color. America stands as unique in the world as the only country not founded on race but on a Way and Ideal. Not in spite of but because of our polyglot background, we have had all the strength in the world. That is the American Way.”
Ronald Reagan
54
Reagan was good at delivering lines. He made a good speech in Philadelphia, Mississippi, and people knew what he meant.
7
I'm sure if you're Norwegian, your place in the military is assured. This is just one more example of Trump's racism. I'm betting only certain groups are being targeted.
92
Well I am writing a musical about my Norwegian ancestors and Trump embarrasses me. I delight in all peoples - their cuisines and cultures. This is an amazing world.
8
Actually, It is. All Norwegian men are expected to complete some form of national service.
Not the case as there are Europeans who are being removed from the military, too.
More Trumpublican chaos and anarchy for which good, ordinary men and women will pay a severe price. When will Congress behave w honor and stop the insanity?
43
I am US Army veteran who served and then obtained citizenship after honorable service. I must say that Trump is the most despicable human being I have ever known. Foreigners have served in the US military since the Continental Army was assembled during the fight for independence. Foreigners have always fought bravely in the US Armed forces and are recipients of 20% of the Medals of Honor awarded since the inception of that honorable award.
Trump has complained about immigrants not pursuing legal immigration. Yet, when immigrants try to follow and EARN legal immigration via military service he goes out of his way to make it agonizing, stressful, and painful for them because Trump is simply a RACIST.
487
Thank you for your service.
Keep in mind, that of the thousands of foreign citizens serving honorably in the US military, 40 individuals have either been discharged or are having their security clearances and immigration status being questioned.
That does not seem to be a high percentage. of thousands of American citizens serving in the military, a similar proportion are not offered the option of renewing their enlistments for various reasons. No one is even alleging that those discharged will not ultimately become citizens or be deported. For those on active duty, it is not a foregone conclusion that they will not be cleared or have the problems with their immigration status resolved in their favor.
It would take a high level of naiveite to assume that there are no individuals, foreign or native, who should not be discharged.
1
Yes, we need more data. But it wouldn’t be out of character to try and stop any type of immigration, legal or no. Lets see how many have been rejected in a month. I have a feeling the numbers will continue to go up and up.
9
Supporting trump is too dishonor America. trump policies are not defensible. For disrespecting the First Amendment alone, he should be impeached. trump is the worst we have to offer.
Easy way to enter the country illegally then to stay on, just join the military! There are security issues are there not?
6
Yes, security issues of the sort that bilingual, bicultural recruits who have an incentive to play by the rules to get a shot at citizenship in exchange for putting their lives on the line for their adopted country pose. None whatsoever.
164
Perhaps, but as someone else noted, Snowden was a security risk too.
7
A glib response, and a wrong one. The idea that a common soldier, newly recruited, would be a security threat is absolutely laughable, were it not evidence of the underlying xenophobia and thoughtlessness conveyed by your statement. Foreign nationals have always been welcome in the United States armed forces, beginning in the American Revolution when Baron Friedrich von Steuben, a former Prussian army officer and combat veteran of the Seven Years War, volunteered his services to General Washington. Von Steuben was the single most important figure in creating a first class professional army out of Washington's ragtag force. During the Civil War, Irish immigrants were recruited into the Federal Army before they could disembark from the ships that brought them here. In 1943, sons of Japanese-American families locked up in internment camps volunteered to fight for the U.S. Army. In Italy, one of their units, the 442nd Regimental Combat Team became the most decorated American fighting unit in World War II. And so it goes until the present day. Those who enlist out of no other motive than to become an American put their lives on the line for you and other Americans. You're worried these volunteers are somehow getting ahead of birthright or naturalized citizens such as yourself! Here's the catch; they don't get their naturalized citizenship immediately, and they have to survive their tour of duty first. Many lose their lives in the line of duty before gaining their citizenship.
20
From your articles it is apparent that there's people were signed up into delayed enlistment orphans. They have not served in the military. so, they have had a way to stay in the US for a number of years and have not sacrificed much for it. No harm, no foul.
7
It’s my understanding that they did in fact serve, in battle too. President Bush allowed 15,000. President Obama allowed those in DACA to enlist.
1
What's with the cowardly General Mattis? Yes, our military is under civilian control -- but he is now serving in a civilian capacity!
86
So the draft dodger in chief is now commander in chief and is kicking military personnel who volunteered to risk their life to serve our country because they are immigrants. Really? Shouldn't trump's citizenship be revoked as the draft dodging coward that he is?
Trump continues to do Putin's bidding by further weakening our military by kicking out immigrants, transgender servicemen and women and halting military preparedness in such places as the Korean Peninsula.
It must be extremely demoralizing being an immigrant recruit serving such an abominable commander in chief.
162
Are you also going to revoke Bill Clinton's citizenship? You have no evidence that Trump was a draft dodger, but you know that Clinton lied to evade the draft.
It's demoralizing being an American whose government is being run by a racist fascist dictator facing no effective opposition.
Like an organism not fighting a blood Bourne infection, death ensues.
1
Every days brings another outrage, although by this, General Bonespurs has outdone himself.
67
Nuance and context are important. Don’t let outrage and rushes to judgement cloud clear thought.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/07/immigrant-military-recruit-discha...
7
Anyone reading both the AP and the National Review articles (which I just did) will see the obvious:
The military’s vetting process for immigrant recruits may have suffered from bureaucratic tangles, lack of funding and lack of staffing (according to National Review’s article). But rather than clean up the process and push for adequate funding and staffing, etc., the AP article says that “the Trump Administration added even more hurdles, creating a backlog within the Defense Department. Last fall, hundreds of recruits still in the enlistment process had their contracts canceled. A few months later, the military suspended MAVNI [the immigrant recruitment program].”
In addition, instead of giving these recruits an honorable discharge, which would have protected them from deportation (and which service members typically are eligible for shortly after starting basic training, which, however, many have not started due to the vetting delays), AP reported that “immigration attorneys told the AP that many immigrants let go in recent weeks were an ‘uncharacterized discharge,’ neither dishonorable nor honorable” which makes them vulnerable to deportation.
The National Review thinks it can drown the truth in a sea of irrelevant detail. Does anyone doubt Trump’s intent by now? This is just another brick in The Wall.
7
I read the article and this quote is key:
"The discharges described by the AP affect a few dozen people who enlisted through MAVNI. As nonsensical as the current policy toward them is, it reflects not a maliciously xenophobic purge of immigrants from the armed forces but rather the woes of bad, opaque policymaking."
Per the article, "extreme vetting" was ordered for MAVNI recruits. Was it pressure from Trump? Vetting is already extreme, especially after the Fort Hood shooting.
"Bad opaque policymaking" is not nuance, it is outrageous. Whether the number if 40 or 400, it does harm to people who chose to serve.
2
For Congress to protect these service members, they would need to have the votes to overturn a Trump veto in both the House and the Senate.
I am glad this is being publicized. I hope citizens let their representatives know how they feel.
But my fear is that their solution, as for many other terrible actions by Trump, will be at the ballot box.
16
This is a test: a test to see what happens when the president takes one step toward requiring racial/ethnic purity as a requirement to serve in the military. And if the test works, we will see more steps toward this nightmarish scenario.
What happens when one group has a monopoly of force in our country? We have been there before in pre-Civil War times and at other times in our history. I shudder to think of what use the current president might make of that force.
53
Is there any one in this administration who will stand up to Trump?
There was some hope that Mattis was the last man standing but even he seems to be bending. If he allows this travesty tp continue his reputation will join the rest of the Trump cohorts in infamy. The swamp is overflowing.
127
Yes Mattis is toast reduced from being a highly honored respected figure to becoming a non entity.
A candidate for public shaming, a military coward. Worse than Trump and his heal spurs.
1
Uncharacterized discharges are entry level discharges given before recruits complete initial entry training, usually with in the first 180 days. According to the Army Times, “More than 5,000 immigrants were recruited into the program in 2016, and an estimated 10,000 are currently serving. Most go the Army, but some also go to the other military branches.” The New York Time says about 40 immigrant received uncharacterized discharges. That would amount about 0.8 percent of immigrants recruited in 2016. This doesn’t seem abnormal. Between 11 and 14 percent of Army, Navy and Marine recruits fail to complete initial entry training.
An uncharacterized discharge is used for most recruit separations. Uncharacterized discharges are authorized for all members separated at the entry level on or after 15 June 1983 who:
(a) Have fewer than 180 days of active service on discharge, and
(b) Demonstrate poor proficiency, conduct, aptitude or unsuitability for further service during the period from enlistment through recruit training, or
(c) Exhibit minor pre-existing medical issues not of a disabling nature which do not meet the medical/physical procurement standards in place for entry into the service.
21
Given the navitism that is permeating our culture one must ask given the numbers of discharges, what lies beneath? True, one can conjure up "cause" for discharge to be legal. Still is questionable.
2
About 11 to 14 percent of native-born recruits are discharged before they complete initial entry level training. It is unrealistic to expect 100 percent of foreign-born recruits to make it though initial entry training.
Joy Reid filled in for Rachel Maddow tonight and talked about aliens serving in the American military. She spoke at length about one who served in the revolutionary war and largely set the standards for organizing the early US military - Baron von Steuben. He had another strike against him besides being alien, as he was reputedly gay. A trump of that era might have drummed him out. But then, he was white and non-Hispanic.
109
Joy Reid? You'll have to do better than that.
1
cmichele & sarah:
You guys are something else. You are free to believe whatever you want, but my post referred to historical fact dating back two centuries before trump ever landed on this earth, and I quoted a source. If you don't trust that source, you are free to check others. If you want to rewrite history do so, but don't expect any respect
As for Rob Cuthbert's original piece - this was not pulled out of thin air but based on verified reports.
Breaking news: MSNBC reported today that the sun rose in the east.
3
As an authoritarian who consistently demands more power there is nothing trump would love more than than simultaneous salutes from tens of thousands of draftees. Will it be days or weeks before he decries the lack of military recruits and starts playing with the lives of the country’s teenagers? They are, after all, nothing more than toy soldiers/cannon fodder to someone whose Vietnam was STDs and bone spurs.
74
It comes as a shock to read that immigrants now are being discriminated against in this country and even in the armed services. I had thought immigrants, that is those who had entered this country legally to become residents, were by law to be treated as equals. I thought that only those who entered this country illegally were in trouble. Things have changed, I guess, since my parents entered this country as legal immigrants, were accepted, prospered and became citizens.
47
During the Iraq war, PBS Newshour would honor the war dead by showing the pictures and names of the fallen warriors. I was struck by the preponderance of Spanish surnames, the number of brown faces. I thought, why so many? I didn't then realize that many of those people may have signed up to become citizens.
Can you imagine? They wanted to join our nation so badly that they volunteered to be shipped off to a war zone to fight for this country. Then, they got killed trying. How tragic. It's almost mind numbing.
And yet, this pig of a president wants to kick these brave people out of the military for wanting to fight for an America that doesn't want them. Tell me again that Donald Trump isn't a racist. Tell me his supporters are not racist. Tell me and I will tell you are a liar, and the worst kind of liar. You are someone who lies to conceal deep seated racism.
What else is it going to take to convince Trump supporters that he is a racist? Maybe that's the point. That's why they like him so much. Trumps public show of racism is what they have always wanted to display. Trump gets away with it and they love him for it.
Now I will wait for the typical retort from his people that this has nothing to do with race. It's about unlimited, uncontrolled immigration, which is just another lie because that isn't happening either.
It's about race.
604
Well said. And please remember that he disrespects the First Amendment and still Congress will not oust him.
6
There's a very simple way to describe Trump's appeal to his acolytes. He gives the finger to everyone he dislikes, which is everyone his followers dislike. Simple....
4
Well said.
3
At one time the US military couldn't get enough immigrants. One of my family members is a physician from another country who was in the US on a visa to practice medicine as a hospital resident. He was drafted (this is a long time ago) against his wishes. But after serving for several years he stayed in the Army reserves and became a proud US citizen. He is a little less proud to be American at this moment.
242
I usually have plenty to say about the current occupant of the WH, but for once I'm almost lost for words. Is there any end to the bad faith and sheer evil that comes from this White House?
411
Romans did it because the bourgeois citizens were reticent to join and leave their X-Box lives and safe-spaces behind.
We have the draft--time to use it.
51
The sons and daughters of the wealthy will never be drafted. it isn't the American way.
28
New Rule: no deferments. If war is waged, all must fight, Congressional sons, daughters and grandkids.
5
Trump kids and GOPhers first!
5
As a Non-Commissioned Officer in the United States Army, to say I am appalled doesn't begin to cover it. I have had the privilege, the honor, to serve alongside dozens of immigrant Soldiers. As an NCO, I've had the privilege to help many of them apply for citizenship.
I would really like the General Staff to explain to me and everyone else wearing the uniform just what Army Value they think they are demonstrating when they allow this. I'd like to know at what point Secretary Mattis decided he couldn't stand with his own troops.
You are in a position none of us are in, Mr. Secretary. You can stand up to the President. You can tell him no.
So why won't you?
909
I too served with immigrants and we became a cohesive tightly knit unit. We ALL knew we had to keep it together as we depended on each other to save our lives. We were family. I abhor Trump getting rid of GOOD service members based on where they were born. STOP this insanity NOW and reinstate those discharged men and women.
47
Because you can't say no to a narcissist. What happens next is in the psychology literature. Therefore, if you want or need to maintain a relationship with this type of person, just never say no. There's no reasoning or logic or humanity or two-way communication.
6
Thank you, ma'am! I would be proud to salute you!
1
In the military, your character is revealed in a host of different ways - if you lied to gain admittance then that is the most basic betrayal of a military ethos.
You should not serve - period.
18
Audie Leon Murphy (20 June 1925 – 28 May 1971) was one of the most decorated American combat soldiers of World War II. He received every military combat award for valor available from the U.S. Army, as well as French and Belgian awards for heroism.
You might also want to know that after the attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941, Murphy's older sister helped him to falsify documentation about his birthdate in order to meet the minimum-age requirement for enlisting in the military. Per your criterion of "most basic betrayal of a military ethos", should Trump now posthumously revoke Mr. Murphy's awards?
13
Trump lied to gain admittance to the presidency, and continues to do so on an hourly basis.
He should not serve - period.
8
SteveRR -- Donald Trump verifiably lies multiple times a day. He's cheated people and businesses big and small out of their hard earned money actually ruining many. These are actual facts even if you choose not believe them. Yet, he's the commander in chief. Again, a fact that even though still hard to believe -- and stomach -- is the truth. So lying is apparently not a character disqualification to lead the military, but according to you, it is, no matter how small or well intended, a disqualification to serve, fight, and even die in it. You'd kick a young man or woman who bent the truth in order to serve, but you'll apparently proudly salute a commander in chief who bent the truth and used his father's money to avoid service. Though you did not mention POTUS, nonetheless, that seems to be your inferred logic -- period.
4
So, on the one hand, conservatives argue that the only people who should come here are those that "truly love America," but then when some of these immigrants want to demonstrate that love for our nation, they are kicked out of the military.
Perhaps these immigrants understand what America is all about better than do many of today's Trump-supporting Republicans.
419
I admire your zeal and your investment in the "evolving" diversity of the American military, Mr. Cuthbert. But when you plead for Congress to flex its muscle and step in to stop this terrible president from turning back the clock to Jim Crow day--and turning his back on immigrant servicemen and women, well, you can't be serious.
This Congress, Republican-laden, will do nothing to step in front of the runaway freight train bearing down the tracks. They only thing this Congress is interested in it tax cuts and stopping Robert Mueller from finishing his investigation of the 2016 presidential campaign.
Perhaps the most famous--or infamous--case of an American serviceman who made the ultimate sacrifice was Humayun Saqib Muazzam Khan. He was born in Dubai to Pakistani parents. In a supreme act of selflessness and heroism, he literally took a bullet to save his men. His parents were reviled by Donald Trump at the Republican National Convention. He has become a president who pays dishonest and dishonorable lip service to the uniform but only when it's necessary. And, while we're at it, let's discuss his military service, shall we?
I have a nephew who as born in Ecuador in the 1970's. He came to America, joined the Marines, served four years and became naturalized. Servicemen (and women) not born in America are hungry to prove their worth and value. Trump will not allow it and a frisbee-fetching Congress will do what he asks. They're as dishonorable as he is.
534
I believe that Trump’s policies will ultimately result in increased terrorism. When there is no longer the pressure valve of immagratiin fron those disfunctional countries
4
As the Trump debacle continues, I am becoming evermore convinced that race isn't a feature of Trumpism, it is the core of Trumpism. It's not a conspiracy, it's not hidden. Racism is the billboard of Donald Trump. It is the product he sells.
He has many buyers, quite possibly as many an 40% of the nation. A couple of years ago, I would have pegged that figure at 20%, but now I see how much I underestimated the problem.
His supporters say if the left makes Trump about race, the left will lose. That's a dead giveaway that race is truly the issue.
Trump is running roughshod over everything this nation stands for, and his people roar with approval. They want to tear the place down, while not realizing that they live here too.
The walls are starting to fall. This trade war will accelerate and be devastating. His people cheer him on. Let's see how much they cheer one year into it.
But you know what, they will still support Trump. They will just shift the blame to the opposition that didn't let the tariffs work properly or some such nonsense.
Trump is a reflection of extreme stupidity, incompetence, racism and hatred. We now see that this nation is loaded with all three.
It's up to people like you and me to call them out and do so daily. Keep pounding on them. Racism is the theme. That's what Trump is and all falls before the goal of racism.
We are at war with ourselves. Trump isn't a phase or a quirk. He is the battle for the soul of this nation.
8
Mr. Cuthbert, you make a good argument, but your premise is wrong: Trump is not xenophobic. Everything he does is driven by some perceived short-term political advantage - in the midterms, retaining his base, etc. - and not because of his prejudices, values, or any personal credo.
He only has four values: saving face, not looking ridiculous, holding on to his illegitimate power, and trying to continue being a convincing flim-flam artist.
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I believe trump is a greater security risk than immigrants in our military. Among other issues, trump openly disrespects our First Amendment. How are we allowing him to act as president?
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A good short list of his so-called values. I would put money at the head of the list. Also add protecting his brand.
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And making as much money as he and his greedy clan can in the process.
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I look at this quite straightforward: if someone fights for our country then I want them as a US citizen when they are finished.
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Well said. Thank you.
It should be alarming any time our country is less civilized than Ancient Rome, which granted citizenship to those who served in the military.
How about before they are finished? Let's say someone wants to make a 20 -30 year career in the military.
Trump wants a war. He's heard "war-time Presidents" get elected to second terms.
If Trump does get us into his war, we may well need to conscript soldiers. That will create a Trumpian problem.
Will Trump ask Congress for legislation that only white people be drafted, and only if their parents were legal U.S. citizens?
I've worked with technical interpreters on technical projects. A lot of understanding is missed. Knowing the language, having lived the language, having lived the culture, and knowing the local idiom are essential for rapid, accurate communication and assessment of the validity of the communication.
I also served as adviser to a Jordanian Army Major for nearly a year. He was one of the finest, most competent Army officers I ever worked with. We developed a soldiers bond. He commanded Armor troops; I'd commanded mechanized infantry in combat. We learned to trust each other as we taught each other and discussed world affairs at night.
He spoke limited English. During the year, I helped him with English at his request. Everything I said above about technical translations was again obvious.
If these people are being dropped only because of Trump's bigoted directives, the Trump is creating a national security problem by blinding the U.S. to valuable information these people could provide.
Snowden was a white male. So was the ex-Navy fellow who was hoarding Top Secret software at home and selling it. Both white guys did the U.S. horrific, long-term harm.
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"Will Trump ask Congress for legislation that only white people be drafted, and only if their parents were legal U.S. citizens?"
No, he will demand legislation that exempts all white people from the draft as bone spurs are know to be a congenital defect among all white people.
Snowden is a hero exposing the evil side of this horrid violent unjust sadistic country.
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Why does the Trump administration revel in breaking commitments the American government has made to people, rather than simply closing the door to further beneficiaries (assuming they argue a practice is unconstitutional - which they are not doing here)? Because these moves demonstrate to Trump's base his commitment to marginalizing immigrants in every possible way. Promises kept.
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There are several actors in this disgusting action that need to be identified, either by their own behavior, or by their acquiescence. This includes the President, as Commander in Chief, General Mattis, the SecDef, General John Kelly, the President's Chief Of Staff, plus the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Army Secretary and the Army Chief of Staff, each of whom plays a role in this dishonorable policy.
Where are the the resignations? Where are their objections?
As a 30 year Army veteran, I've never been so repelled by our military's senior leadership.
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As a 21 year Army veteran, I concur completely.
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As a 30 year Army veteran myself as well, I share your feelings completely. By not resigning or objecting, they're willingly complicit enablers hypocritically carrying around their Army Values cards in their left breast ACU pocket.
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And we thank you for your service. 30 years is a lifetime dedicated to the good of all!
"On Thursday, The Associated Press reported that at least 40 immigrant Army recruits — some from countries that speak languages critical to national security — were suddenly discharged or are having their legal status questioned before they have served long enough to qualify for expedited naturalization."
I simply do not recognize my country any more. This president is saying and doing things that seem to come from another era, an era of strongmen who whip up crowds into a frenzy of blood lust for ethnic cleansing of targeted groups.
This military thing freaks me out, frankly. I can't think of a more honorable way to serve a country you wish to join than serving in the military and putting one's language skills to good use in helping America in its endless set of wars.
Why is Jim Mattis going along with this? Where are other military voices? Our military is sorely in need of people who want to serve, and following Truman's order to end any form of discrimination in the services seems a good way to resolve it.
Just yesterday, Ali Velshi of MSNBC posted a list of immigrant soldiers who won the medal of honor from wars dating back decades. Would Donald Trump also undo the valiant service of those now dead soldiers because of his xenophobia?
Trump came from a family of immigrants, including some who entered twice to attain American citizenship.
Trump's vendetta against immigrants, even ones already serving our country, is simply unconscionable.
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40 out of 10,000 in the MAVNI program who couldn't have background checks completed.
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Interestingly enough, if one looks at historical facts, there were thousands of immigrants who lied in order to join the military during WWII. But they were white.
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