I answered a call for a summer teaching job in China, as did a younger friend of mine, but then we found this Ohio State case on the internet, with the director of the program cited as the main actor. My friend got an acknowledgement email. My application dropped into a black hole.
Not that I would have gone anywhere near this man. I'm glad they won their settlement.
23
New court. Older employees will lose. Old people need to die off as soon as possible....now that we have government for some people only....
He should have been impeached by now....
16
This article brings up so many issues relevant to our society. I am shocked that this is not on page one. The issue of age discrimination is real, older adults more often women are victims. These women were harassed and bullied and suffered long lasting effects. These victims put up with this in order to preserve their livelihood, jobs, and health insurance. That this occurred for so long within a protected class points to the defects in our society. What happened to the bosses, the perpetrators in this case? Were they promoted along the way? Did they receive bonuses or merit pay? This type of behavior should never occur in civilized society, yet it is accepted and promoted on many levels. These women are heroes in every since of the word. They stood up for what was right, and did not stop with a monetary reward. They continued until a change occurred within their environment
38
My experience in State government has been that government doesn't want experienced, knowledgeable people around. Experienced knowledgeable people have this nasty habit of knowing, and reminding, people of the requirements of laws and regulations, which requirements often conflict with what politicians and their appointees want to do to further their own careers.
35
As an Ohio State University alumnus, I am left wondering after reading this story if the age-discriminating director of the ESL program is still working for OSU?
35
Is there age discrimination for doctors, attorneys, and politicians? No, because they are very smart cookies.
1
Sure there is.
5
Interesting article with an important point, but I don't see why it is filed under "Science." The NYT seems to have quite a loose standard for what they consider "science". A great number of the article filed there seem more like health, social/culture, personalities, etc..
4
I seems to me that hiring older workers, i.e. people who aren't slaves to that little electronic toy, would make far more sense than hiring less experiences young people, many of whom are so addicted to their cellphone that getting a full day's work of of them is just short of impossible.
20
Racial and sexual discrimination in employment get a lot of attention in the media as it should. That being said, age discrimination regardless of sex or race continues to be rampant at most large corporations and little is done about it. Lawyers seem to be less willing to represent such cases as it seems more difficult to prove versus other forms of discrimination in the workplace. Hence although age discrimination is common knowledge, it continues to proliferate getting worse as baby boomers age.
17
Any salaried employee over 50 is at professional risk. If they are high performers, they threaten workers 20 years younger. If middling performers, they are asking to be laid off in the next, inevitable downsizing action.
But look beyond the pervasive reality of organizational ageism.
No worker, of any age or gender, enjoys the comfy employment security our parents had. (Some older ones seem to expect it, though, and are shocked and wounded when a mail-it-in, do-the-minimum strategy catches up with them.) If younger professionals have any mental edge, it's that they already think of themselves as independent one-person LLCs, flitting from one paid position to the next, always strategizing for the next one.
Older workers must adopt the same worldview. They should not only be courageous in pursuing ageism disputes, but adjust to 21st century employment norms in all their precariousness. Anyone can end up on the street at any moment.
12
The same thing is happening in elementary and high schools, at least in New York City. Since Bloomberg implemented "fair student funding" older, more experienced teachers are discriminated against in favor of younger cheaper ones.
5
While I think that there is some truth to your statement, I think that the extent to which older teachers are pushed out depends on the principal who is running the school. I also think that being older and more experienced does not necessarily make a teacher better than someone younger with less experience. That's an assumption and a generalization. Experience is an asset, but older teachers who do not keep current or are resistant to new development in educational pedagogy sadly may not be able to meet the needs of present-day students.
3
Often these perceptions are based more on style and language than actual performance. Do you takes notes on paper ? Oops! You’re old and out of touch.
11
I look forward to the day when the ill-informed young manager is old and unemployed. Perhaps he can then find a new job herding actual hippos at a wildlife preserve or picking up "deadwood" branches along the roadside. Interacting with human beings seems to be beyond his capabilities.
52
Intel’s mass layoff 2 years ago: an employee in his or her 50’s was five times as likely to be laid off as an employee in their 30’s. Now tell me that isn’t age discrimination.
28
If you are a current student, there are plenty of jobs at Intel:
"Minimum Qualifications: Candidate must be pursuing a Master's Degree in Computer Science, Computer Engineering or any other science/engineering related field."
https://g.co/kgs/oMswQy
1
Makes the author's point perfectly: anyone older than a student--typically someone under 30 years old--is welcome to apply.
2
This is rampant in the federal government, too.
Officers with 15-20 years' experience, passed over for 20-somethings with 2 masters degrees who don't know their head from a hole in the ground. Sometimes brand new employees are put into positions of senior authority because they 'act' competent, even though they don't actually know anything. I know GS-12s who've been in grade for nearly ten years and still doing excellent work; but because they're not twenty-five with a J.D. or an MBA , they're never getting promoted again.
16
Plaintiffs attorneys contributions to liberal politicians are money well spent. This appears to be the typical lawsuit lottery case designed by liberal politicians to force employers to pay tribute and avoid an incredibly unfair lawsuit.
What a great law - the employer can never win:
- Plaintiff claims employer bad;
- If plaintiff wins, employer loses because it pays damages to plaintiff and both sides’ attorneys fees, plaintiffs pay nothing;
- If employer wins, employer still loses because employer
pays hundreds of thousands of dollars in attorneys fees - plaintiffs still pay nothing.
- employer - legally denied the chance to ever prevail economically - settles case to minimize loss;
- plaintiff lawyers get rich; - - plaintiffs lawyers make more political contributions to maintain an insanely unfair advantage.
My apologies to the employers in this matter - you’ve been sacrificed to create victims for liberal politicians, and their plaintiff attorneys’ wallets.
1
Happy Republicans love to exploit the cheapest possible labor - just cogs in the machine. They become so “unhappy” when humans demand to be treated as such. How dare those pesky, smart and savvy humans! (BTW, Enjoy your tariffs which may force you to stop your feeding frenzy of that very cheap overseas labor.)
26
What nonsense; age discrimination is a serious problem. Suggesting that cases are due to liberal politicians and plaintiff attorneys is a delusional denial of reality.
31
Not to worry, you will grow old.
16
Part of the implicit problem here is that esl as a field, has undergone a philosophical sea change in the last 20 years. I don’t know, but I’d bet that these women plaintiffs advocated the 80’s model while the new boss was a proponent of newer thinking. I’m not saying it’s right— I don’t believe they should have been pushed out and I believe that they were. And I don’t believe newer is necessarily better. I’m just pointing out that real pedagogical and philosophical differences may undergird this conflict.
4
Thank you, Eldora, for that insight missing from the narrative pushed by this article. Things are always a little more complicated than people want them to appear.
2
And why didn't the ESL director who discriminated against these excellent women get fired? His age bias cost the university plenty!
32
Responding to the commenter who lost his job in his sixties, but accepted that his employers had made a “business decision” to engage younger employees:
Well, give yourself a nice pat on the back; you are, in your own estimation, a realist and “grown up.”
Except, my friend and fellow senior citizen:
1. Not all older workers have “slowed down”;
2. Not all of us are unwilling to put in extended hours when needed;
3. Many of us are up-to-date on the latest technology and, in fact, embrace that technology (my husband and I are both “early adopters” who were building our own PC back in the mid-‘80s and were on the internet when the directory of ALL global websites was contained in a one-inch thick paperback)..
And let me not forget . . .
(4) A decision to fire or not hire older workers who meet the above criteria and conform other job-related requirements is not merely “business”; it is illegal age discrimination.
43
What happened to the idiot "boss"?
OSU's reputation needs to take care they seem to continually have scandals with their athletics ( most recently the wrestling sex abuse that is currently in the news, and now this "esteemed" institution of higher education and enlightenment is hiring, promoting and turning a blind eye to ageists and sexists? I never see anyone get fired there- they just retire with full benefits or move on to another similar position elsewhere where they can start to repeat their behavior...
18
Seriously, do employers know that they are usually replacing experienced workers with people who don't know anything. My favorite optician retired (or was pushed out) and the young lady who replaced him, right out of optical school, does not know how to comfortably fit my glasses. After four tries, I drove 40 minutes to a new (but old and experienced) optician who fixed my glasses on the first try. I can probably bore you with a few more anecdotes in the same vein. Now, when I look for help in any retail situation, I automatically seek out the oldest employee.
40
Who is the OSU ESL ignorant "boss" who started this all? Why did the NYT not attempt to interview him/her or at least mention the name in this article! Did this person pay any price at all for his/her crude stupidity?
15
Private business discriminates in a sneaky way and then makes you sign a statement that you won't sue based on this law, or else you don't get their generous kiss off plus unemployment. At 61, my job was allegedly abolished, in its place another position created with a suspiciously similar skill set, paying 30k less and requiring only a few years experience. I was "rehirable" but they never would have. Luckily I landed another job fairly quickly, at a nonprofit staffed by -- other sexagenarians. AARP role in this is the reason I'm a paying member.
21
Someone asked below-why is this buried in the health section. Why is this not on the business page or front page?
It made me wonder about age discrimination in journalism. We rarely see any older women journalists on TV--why is that?
25
This is why I like to watch Scandinavian crime dramas. For example, compare the Brit version of "Wallander" with the version made in Sweden.
The version made in Sweden is SHOCKING -- who knew that older women could still remain so active and visible in the world? You can actually SEE women with wrinkles on the show, and they are also actually literally IN the story, doing things, making decisions with impact.
The Brit version keeps the audience comfortable by not allowing any woman over 30 onscreen unless she's had something done to keep her looking in her 30s.
14
Well, plenty of dead wood isn’t old either.
28
We're living in a world where this sort of behavior is becoming more widespread and acceptable. By calling older workers "dead wood" this man demeans their experience and their abilities.
Look around. Younger workers aren't displaying the same work habits older workers have been using for generations. We're witnessing problems in every single aspect of the job market. Even though the job market is changing, employing a good work ethic is still valuable and important.
The erroneous belief that younger workers have more to offer simply because they might know more about computers is absurd and now antiquated. Older workers have much to offer and can out-work their younger counterparts. I'll bet a Red Bull, an Uber ride, a phone conversation (on company time) and a lack of vocabulary or spelling ability on it every time.
31
As a former HR employee at OSU (and in the private sector) I feel the need to state that HR is not the entity that determines who is downsized, transferred, reorganized out of a job etc. Those decisions are squarely in the hands of individuals managing the colleges, departments, institutes, labs and so forth. It is the responsibility of HR to counsel and assist managers not to make decisions based on age, race,gender, disability etc. However, individual managers often try to take the path of least resistance when faced with budget cuts, complaints, mature subordinates who ask questions or resist change. Too many managers are ill equipped to deal with challenges of any kind, especially employee relations.
I am happy to hear about the outcome of this case. When it comes to employment discrimination issues, the Gittes law firm is the best!
18
Googled the lawsuit. Administrator is Robert Eckhart.
20
Thanks. I don’t know why the story couldn’t identify him.
5
An Uncle worked at a defense contractor for 40 years. One day as he presented his security badge at the gate he was pulled aside escorted to his desk given a box, told his service was no longer needed, given retirement papers to sign and shown the gate. Not even so much as a 'Thanks for your service'. He got his pension and all so he was fine financially but the shot to his pride was difficult to deal with. sadly he was somewhat bitter until his dying day. He was around 65 when this happened. Ageism,I don't know, but it fits the mold.
28
" Last year, the E.E.O.C. received 18,376 complaints of age discrimination — “a tiny fraction of what’s likely out there,” Ms. Ventrell-Monsees said. And most were filed by women." As mentioned in this article, thousands of people have been illegally removed from their jobs for age, but most don't have the resources and support to make their case.
18
And anyone who does the research on the likelihood of prevailing in an age discrimination case will think long and hard about bringing it. Most private employment law counsel will not take any but the most blatant and well documented cases (of highly paid professionals), because the chance of recovery, and thus getting paid, is so low. These OSU women were extremely lucky.
16
1) How does the problem of age discrimination and reluctance to hire older workers - fit in with the rocketing suicide rates? Are people in the 50+ brackets one of the highest categories of suicide victims? Bet there is a connection
2) No 'metoo' justice against the discriminating bosses?The university protected these people? When you see 'settlement' - means the perps got red carpet treatment and maybe a promotion
18
Why isn't the program director named in this article?
24
Hmmmmm, making way for "young Bucks" is incredibly obvious discrimination...against WOMEN. Sexist AND Ageist. Delightful. Bringing us back to the dark ages... go Amurrica! I'm glad it isn't legal, though so much isn't and still happens. Fight the good fight!
20
and racist
9
We get age discrimination. But the young people taking our jobs away will get to experience the worst of climate change. Oh well.
10
Unless one is living under a rock it’s impossible not to be aware of the innumerable studies documenting older workers as more reliable, dependable, self-disciplined, knowledgeable (far more knowledgeable) and less likely to screw something up. The media has for years reported on progressive companies who actively seek older people. Ohio State should fire the incompetents who devised this scheme.
20
You are no doubt correct, Pete, but you're missing the point. In almost every case, these campaigns to oust older workers are all about cost savings, end of story. If anyone were interested in the most productive workforce, your studies would be relevant and helpful. But bottom line employment costs have been driving hiring practices since the recession of 2008, and current unemployment rates notwithstanding, wages and salaries have not risen. Do the math.
13
It should be unfortunately noted that the many decades of experience--and the ethos and standards of an earlier era--have no value in today's market. Even university dept. heads and managers--regardless of academic discipline--do not recognize superior writing and editing skills and if they do, often feel threatened by subordinates who possess them.
And yes--valuing and desiring a life outside of the office is a definite negative as far as any employer goes.
17
I would expect that an Institution of Higher Learning would know enough than to have on its staff anyone who is not versed in age discrimination. If they cannot keep on top of this kind of knowledge, why would any student want to pay to attend Ohio State. So much for higher learning.
16
I can understand the desire of employers to higher younger employees but on the other side of the coin retirement plans and social security place older employees between a rock and a hard spot.The employer wishes they would leave to hire younger persons but retirement systems and social security require work longevity to provide adequate benefits. if social security benefits were maximized at an earlier age then older employees would have less stress about retiring earlier.
Part of the issue with age discrimination and seeking to higher younger worker I believes comes from the push to create diversity in the work force.In order to create vacancies for women and minorities older white males are pushed out and encouraged to retire earlier than they otherwise would, The skill set issue is largely bogus and a cover for the desire to show a more diverse work force, excluding older workers.
7
Guess you missed the point where age discrimination seems to mostly affect women.
26
Their situation was similar to mine. I faced a lot of ageism problems working for a federal government office. I was a contractor working on site. As if that weren’t bad enough, the division management was biased against older employees, even permanent workers. It was a stand alone group so there was little oversight. I had previously always received good reviews and my work was highly praised. I liked my actual employers and got along well with them even though most were 30 years younger than I am. I looked for another job because my mental and physical health were suffering from the hostile work environment in the federal office. Sadly, no job offers over four years of effort. My ex-husband passed away not long before my 65th birthday and I was able, thankfully, to retire with his social security.
13
Having just spent a year dealing with a completely new team of bosses I know that much is lost to inexperience. As an older worker I found myself biting my tongue rather than giving advice that might be construed as resistance to change. The newbies got to learn their lessons through mistakes instead of benefiting from years of experience. Then again, maybe nobody would ever try anything if experience and tradition were always consulted.
25
You'd have to be living in a vacuum not to have noticed that many younger people tend to be easily distracted and come with a sense of entitlement they don't deserve.
They may have more stamina, but what good is that if they don't use it on the job? They look better, but if businesses want ornaments they can buy potted plants. They may bring fresh ideas, but experience is something you gain over time. Plus, many of today's new graduates expect large salaries and perks that should take years of experience and dedication to earn.
It may have been coincidence, but over the years, the best environments I've worked in have had a diverse group of employees and a female boss.
29
Age discrimination is still rampant. I was laid off from a marketing position in a global technology corporation at 54. I was told by my manager; HR was not in the room. My first question to him was "What happens now?", meaning what about severance, benefits, outplacement, how long do I have here, etc. His response was "We'll put out an ad for your replacement at a more junior level!" What an idiot.
I spoke to 2 lawyers, but the reality was I needed a job -- and fighting a lawsuit was not going to help with that. The only bright part was that technology company is a shadow of its former self, having sold off most of its divisions, properties, buildings and is now down less than 15% of its peak employment! A hallmark of years of bad management decisions.
And for those that may think I was obsolete, it wasn't a question of "tech skills"; I've been an expert in technology use since before the PC and was -- and still am -- the "go to" person for tech questions, a power user of Microsoft word and powerpoint and the first to embrace new programs. But I am not cheap -- and cheap (not skills) is what's wanted.
35
So much is dependent on what type of work you do and your colleagues. After relocating to San Diego at 52 from my entire life in NY/Boston, I needed a job, badly. I walked into a beautiful, natural foods grocery looking for directions and found a job instead. $9/hr, but I was grateful to have some income. After 5 months, I saw a huge need not being met-they had noone to supervise their inept "catering" dept. Never having done any catering before, I was expert at starting programs, so I talked myself into the opportunity to fix what was broken.
Fast forward 13 years, I left the company 5 months ago, due to physical limitations (nobody starts in the food business at 52; that's usually when they leave, it's too damn hard), even though I loved being in the kitchen and miss it daily. I'm much, much better off now. I was not forced out-I saw that with others who actually were "dead wood". My worth ethic and my total skill set are missed-on my last day, I was told I was welcome back any time, and I believe it.
What's my point? Start somewhere and keep your mind and eyes open to what's happening. If you see where you can make a change, go for it. I was lucky and had wonderful support from my team and store supervisors. But when you get the chance, nail it. You will be appreciated.
21
The same kinds of things happened to me. The combination of age and gender discrimination is both overt and insidious. Academic communities that purport to being so supportive and non-discriminating are still bastions of the "old boys club." Once a woman turns a certain age she can expect to be demeaned, dismissed, and devalued, no matter how much she has achieved.
This happened to me despite being given high ratings in peer reviews, and from supervisors, despite receiving awards, grants and holding leadership positions professionally, and being recognized internationally. I called it working while invisible because after a certain point I was ignored and excluded in every way possible.
But what really saddened me was how quickly colleagues and others distanced themselves from me. If anyone had spoken up it could have been so different. There are really no resources for older workers at these institutions and no place to turn to regarding age discrimination.
Academic institutions should be encouraged to develop ways to incorporate the expertise of experienced people when bringing in the next generation of workers. For myself I would have loved to be a part of something like that.
29
What happened to the administrators who were guilty of this? Were they fired (I hope)?
17
I guess you missed the part where there was no admission or finding of guilt, so there’s no basis to say the employer did anything wrong. Settlements like this happen all the time because it’s cheaper to pay the blackmail than pay much larger amounts to defend the case.
5
"Settlements like this happen all the time because it's cheaper to pay the blackmail than pay much larger amounts to defend the case."
Blackmail?
2
The adminstrator needs educated, if not fired. Glad the university’s “see no evil, hear no evil” review process will be reviewed by an outside reviewer in the future
1
"Many countries, including the United States, hope to persuade older people to remain in the work force longer and claim their retirement benefits later." Not if you're in the private sector, not in a union, or not special enough they don't. I've been looking for a steady job since I was downsized from a good job 5 years ago. I was at that company for 13 years. They downsized me 3 months shy of my 55th birthday.
Now I'm almost 60, looking for a job in my field (IT), hearing that they can't find skilled people, and even when the interviews go well the next response is that they've decided to go in a different direction, hired someone else, or nothing.
America is not interested in age discrimination. It's more interested in helping corporations continue to outsource jobs so that they don't have to invest in any Americans. I say this as someone who is female, in a STEM field, and has never known a good job market. I've seen and experienced the sneers of managers, employers, and colleagues who think that women are not good enough for hiring or keeping. And there's nothing to be done because employees don't have rights, only employers and it's our word against theirs.
58
As a 69 year-old medical education professional who has been unable to even get an interview in 10 months of applications, I can testify that ageism is rampant.
45
This is the administrator in question. Sadly he's not unique, but one of a species whose flip contempt for older colleagues is acceptable when expressed privately, at the expense of institutional memory.
https://buckeyevoices.osu.edu/contributors/bob-eckhart.html
9
Thank you, Ms. Moon and Ms. Taaffe. You persisted so that I and others may be more justly treated. I hope that your vindication will help to heal the wounds you suffered as targets of such barbaric policies and individuals. I'm also relieved that Ohio State seems not only to have recognized its culpability but also to have embraced changes that should prevent the same type of crimes from recurring. Let's hope those measures work.
15
I was pushed out of a non-profit company due to age. They actually said "you've been here too long and make too much money."
30
I don’t get it - what do you believe management did wrong ?
Since management believes you weren’t contributing to the extent required, and you were paid too much - the managers are fiducially required to terminate your employment or at least cut your pay.
If your managers didn’t take effective action to address the problem - they should have been fired.
When did Americans come or believe their entitled to other people’s money or jobs.
After the settlement, what became of the supervisor who caused this incident?
16
So was that new program director disciplined or -- hope against hope --fired?
15
Why - nobody proved he or she did anything working ?
Thank you Ms. Taaffe, Ms. Moon, Gittes Law Group and the AARP Foundation lawyers. I was too lazy and just took my lumps but also my pension. Little people, young people and currently our President can be very dangerous.
11
Curious as to why the suit could not have been filed under Ohio law. OH does have an age discrimination law which seem pretty strong.
6
Our President is 71, and very afraid of progress. Suppose any of these OSU administrators could reverse his job prospects? Of course, he isn’t a woman, so he gets some credit for that.
17
I think what underlies a lot of age discrimination is as follows: 1) Have to pay them too much, cheaper to hire a fresh grad 2) Insurance costs perceived to be lower 3) Bosses and managers feel threatened by older workers, it is like having your Mom or dad working for you 4) Just like with racial and sex discrimination you feel more comfortable with people just like you.
21
Insurance premiums do come into play with an aging work force; older employees tend to have more medical issues, sometimes very expensive issues. It is not legal to request medical history for new hires, so the jump to hire younger is also risky. Small businesses cannot afford to offer health care plans; large corporations have begun to cut back on fringe plans, i.e. dental. Large corporations are also making plans more basic; there are "executive" plans available for upper management, more expensive, but used to entice managers with good reputations and skill sets. Businesses are run for the profits of owners and shareholders; this is not news.
1
Simple justice is far from simple to win. Cases like this hinge on being picked up by E.E.O.C. lawyers. How well funded and staffed is that agency? It's a wonder Taaffe and Moon were represented.
9
“He wrote that he was dealing with “an extraordinarily change-averse population of people, almost all of whom are over 50, contemplating retirement (or not) and it’s like herding hippos.” Then he inadvertently copied one of his own staff.”
I am hoping the university has hired a new program director. What a fool to put something like that in writing ... and send out copies!
24
Old men are considered "wise".
10
It's generally true, too. But there are glaring exceptions. Please look towards certain golf courses.
9
HR Rule One, besides "Don't Drink & Dial;" Never, ever send out emails with content like this: "Change-averse people . . . over 50 . . . it’s like herding hippos.”
See you in court or at least at the settlement conference!
17
Oh but the labor shortage!
They cry as they dump older workers.
29
Hippos, eh? In other words a guy who wants to surround himself with other guys and women who are eye candy for men who hate women.
32
Please cover this issue more often. Readers and voters over a certain age (like me!) really appreciate this focus! I learned a good deal about ageism reading this article - and from the letters from readers. Thanks to all who wrote in with their work experiences - I will protect myself better and remember your words of warning! I have already seen signs of this in the school where I teach - luckily the principal was forced out by staff but not until she pressured two senior teachers to retire before they wanted to.
21
Good for the Ohio State employees for speaking up and doing something about what was being done to them. It pays to stand up for your rights. I recently was stood up by a local car service, don't have car anymore, too old, so had to get a cab to destination. I wrote car company a letter and got my cab fare back. I needed the ride to get to a Pet Grief support group at the San Diego Humane Society; got there but cost me $25 w/tip vs. the $4.00 for the local senior one way ride. Second time I used that company a week ago they were good. Worth the time to write letter.
9
This article is almost completely devoid of needed context. What were the specific situations which occurred that may have led the administrator to form their negative opinion? Was the organization in need of change, and were these employees indeed resistant to it? If the administrator was complaining about the challenges with getting them to change, was it the administrator's fault for failing to effectively lead, or was it the employees' fault for resisting change? The article completely omits the information we need to properly understand the context of the administrator's statements and actions. From this article I can't tell if these employees were being discriminated against, or if they were causing all sorts of problems that the article doesn't report. It would be nice if some actual investigation could have been conducted and reported here.
3
If OSU settled, then the answers to your questions are pretty obvious. The e-mails and comments from the director seem to be a clue as well.
23
It would appear that those questions were answered to the satisfaction of the authorities there. It's one thing to be a skeptic, but introducing skepticism into an adjudicated matter doesn't just question that matter. It questions whether anything can ever really be beyond skepticism. The answer is yes.
13
Obviously you’ve never been an employer. When sued, even if you obeys every law and rule known to man, an employer gets to pay $100,000 - $500,000 in legal fees and when you win - you get nothing. Better to pay them off and move on. Paying frivolous lawsuits is just a cost of doing business in litigious America.
If you look at online job ads, the age discrimination if frequently blatant. Some open advertise for young people or "recent college grads."
The discrimination starts with the application process, where the second question, right after basic identification, is the year of high school graduation. Companies big and small do this and continue to get away with it.
19
Don't answer that question - It is another way of trying to find out how old you are and is - or should be - illegal.
8
The problem is that you can't proceed with those online applications if you don't answer it. I encountered this back in 2008 during the Great Recession. I've run across it a couple of times in most recent years but since I'm not looking for a job, I don't know if it's still in use as much as it was in 2008.
2
I've sent emails to companies who advertise like that. I use the applicant response link and say "age discrimination is illegal and language about fresh ideas, new graduates, etc. are coded ways of discriminating against older workers."
16
As a union rep, I have seen managers over and over again attempt to push out older employees, particularly women, as "not up with the times; not 'nimble' enough, not prepared for the new, fast-paced environment." In many cases, there was no evidence to support these claims, just a perception of the mostly younger men around them. And sometimes, of course, it had nothing to do with reality or perception but an attempt to bring in younger, less experienced--but cheaper--employees. (I am perplexed that supposedly informed HR reps are so fearful of admitting that they want cheaper employees that don't recognize the code words for sex and age discrimination.)
30
The common thread to many employers is that older workers like athletes sometimes lose a step or can’t seem to be in step
with other “team members”.
I taught E.S.L. for twenty years. Many of my methods included
word recognition, dictionary work and writing practice. As times change, the use of tech took place of books. Yet the work was similar.
I had district administrators visit my classes to see what methods I was using that made my classes alway one of the district leaders each year? I told them class management and
hard work. They didn’t like hearing that.
I retired and was hired back to work as a substitute for grades
K-8. Most of my work centers on helping teachers better
mange their classroom. Deadwood I am not.
27
Chief, even in special education, today’s teaching is primarily all about a iPad and keeping the students as removed from you as possible. Putting on a good AppleTV linked LCD dog and pony show for an administrator or someone from downtown is all they care about.
6
You are so right, Chief. I didn't have to work so I volunteered to help reading skills in West Berkeley. The ability to recognize word, to write a simple sentence, and to organize simple sentences into a simple paragraph moved my students up to the class level they belonged in. Their mothers invited me to lunches, and I went. It was an experience never forgotten.
2
Agree 100%.
1
Public school systems do this consistently. When my high school wanted to remove the principal (who had friends in high places), they set about restaffing the entire school. It was interesting that the people who were not kept on were almost all over 50. We still had jobs in the system but not comparable ones and, as a result, most of us were forced to retire years before we should or wanted to. I find it interesting that, in education, experience does not seem to count for much. It is the younger teachers and the amount of extra time they will put in that is more valuable. I am sorry but I remain bitter about this to this day.
21
I worked for a law firm that lost a client that was half of the company’s revenue. There was, of course, “downsizing” soon thereafter. They let go a third of their employees (about 15 in all), all but one of whom was fifty or older. Afterwards there was only one person older than fifty on the staff.
7
JEG, school district young Turks seem to come with a lot of insecurity. Installing one at a school requires removing everyone younger and replacing them with teachers even still younger. That’s how young Turks think is the only way from not being young. It never occurred to them that wisdom can come with experience for all they seem to notice is the scars on those who have endured it. That must be why all the kids are getting tattoos these days, they must feel it makes them look experienced. Poor kids.
2
As a retiree who work at a public university in The Northeast, when I reached 25 years of service and was in my late 50’s, I was given assignments that required me to work on weeends and evenings. I decided that retiring was better than fending off the push by my boss to go. Interestingly, after I retired the university wanted to have me continue as a private consultant on a 1099. I said no, and haven’t looked back. Retiring improved my life and I found new job opportunities
23
You are lucky to have found new job opportunities. Did they come with benefits?
2
Age discrimination is flourishing nationwide. Some believe that it's possible as the labor pool shrinks that companies will recognize it doesn't make sense. But often, HR decides to complete layoffs and focus on senior people, many of whom are well paid. HR decides that they will appear to add value by strategically cutting the more expensive employees.
Unfortunately, there are a few ideas that are usually overlooked:
1) Not all senior employees are deadwood. Some really are very good and worth their compensation.
2) A junior person cannot assume a senior level role and be as effective if they lack the depth of experience and knowledge. But with a senior mentor, they might soar.
3) Before companies layoff senior staff, they should consider who is really good and offer those individuals the option to work fewer days each week. This idea, which I'm told is currently in place at a least one financial firm, makes enormous sense. Many senior level employees would like to continue working but have an extra day, or two, off. And the companies that have them on the payroll could pay them less.
What this amounts to is understanding how to be creative and strategic.
By the way, the administrator who sent that email likely didn't make any decision singlehandedly. At academic institutions, it's all about committees and lots of meetings to discuss matters. Though one person may press send on an email, others certainly had a hand in the decision.
31
Many state universities have long forgotten their obligation to educate students. They value those who do published research and get research grants over those who actually teach students. Many teachers are only part time, or are considered "independent contractors" at these universities because then the university has no obligation to provide benefits or consider seniority. OSU's attempt to drive out the older workers is also a trend. Department budgets get cut, and there is pressure to cut spending. Who goes first? The older, more experienced teachers who get paid more than a new teacher would. Obviously, quality doesn't matter when the bottom line is money.
18
I am 57 and have worked in private schools both in the United States and abroad for over 25 years. I have two post graduate degrees and I was an adjunct faculty member at Rutgers for 8 years. I have sent resumes all over the United States, hundreds. None call back. In previous years I went to events that pitted me against teachers with one year of experience, they were chosen. In education that constant refrain is that older teachers are tired "sages on the stage" while younger teachers are dynamic and tied in to the latest technology. Even the fact that I have taught on-line courses from the US to Asia does nothing to alter these presumptions. Very soon I will be the best educated applicant for food stamps in my states history, or from the sound of this story maybe not. It is time that the Democratic Party made this issue a leading concern in the upcoming elections.
63
As an employer I never understood age discrimination. I have five employees in my business of whom three are over age 60. The other two employees are both under 30 years old. While I will admit that the older employees are less tech savvy, they are more mature, responsible, and dependable than my younger employees. What I have also found is that the older employees help the younger ones to be more responsible and mature while the younger employees teach the older employees to be more tech savvy. The mix of ages works well for my business (which is tech heavy but also requires good communication skills). It really is a shame that some businesses treat their elder employees so badly. They are a significant asset to any company and should be cherished like any other significant asset.
78
Mike L, you're a wise employer. What you're seeing at your company could be duplicated by many others.
4
Unlike discrimination based on gender, race and religion, growing old is what happens to us all. I find that the most avid practitioners of ageism in positions of authority have two characteristics. First, they are deeply afraid of what will happen to them as they age. They don’t want to be around older people who remind them. Second, they are the types of administrators who can’t stand having their views challenged, particularly by those with more experience, since it might make them look less than omniscient.
In both cases, the results are highly destructive to the organizations they lead. Clear signals need to be sent that such behavior is destructive, and not to be tolerated.
47
When my mother hit the age of 60, she began to be harassed at her job. the harassment continued until she finally wait, 15 or so years later.. She currently volunteers as a psychiatric social worker.
When I became 60, I was "let go"... nothing wrong with my performance, it was a "change of needs". But within a few weeks of my job loss, 3 other professional women I know also lost their jobs.. some "let go" like me, with a package. Others were hot with spurious charges to avoid paying anything.
Anecdotal but there you are. Experience and expertise counts as nothing when you are female.
39
One sure way to increase one's own income, if you are in a position of power. is to decrease the income and benefits of those you "manage". You are considered some kind of hero for "saving money".
It's not about age - it's about people making too much money when "managers and supervisors" want more.
Good for these brave people for suing and shouting out. They should have done it sooner. The article says, "So in 2009, when a new program director began disparaging them and other veteran E.S.L. staffers while promoting younger and less experienced people, they wondered — despite their consistently first-rate performance reviews — if they’d screwed up somehow."
People have to stop questioning themselves when they know they have done nothing wrong and are doing a good job and immediately take on their "superiors". While Good People sit around questioning themselves the Robber Barons are profiting nicely. It's ludicrous.
Fight like hell to retain your job/dignity. Do not let anyone steal it from you.
43
njglea, amen! Don't just take such treatment! Don't allow anyone to destroy your confidence and self-esteem, and try to deny your skills and accomplishments!
Instead, if you're in such a situation, note all your skills, accomplishments, and strong points and remind yourself of them every day - every hour if needed!
Too often, too many of us - women especially - see authority as always being "right." No, they're not!
5
In the Department of Education in New York City, where I taught for 24 years, this same philosophy prevailed throughout the system. I was an itinerant teacher who was able to visit many schools as part of my job. At about the same time as the timeline in the article, older principals and teachers were forced out through the same means as described. new Ivy league graduates were installed in, often with only short hasty training, or no experience at all. Older professionals were treated as "dead wood". I wondered what exactly was going on. I did not hear if the teacher's union intervened in these cases but that I saw the basic modus operandi throughout the last 12 years, I wonder about why this has not been addressed publicly. I was busy doing my job and my principal did not do these things. I wish senior teachers and principals who were dismissed and forced out would organize and fight the D.O.E. I think these practices are still going on
25
Unfortunately, universities do have "deadwood." These are long-tenured faculty members no longer pursuing scholarship, or at least not publishing what they've discovered, and halfheartedly teaching their courses. No wonder that young people looking for faculty positions are disgusted by what they see in academia when nothing can be done to remove true deadwood.
Some universities have tried to remedy the problem by offering attractive early retirement packages. Those work, more or less, but not always. So the solution, then is to make conditions difficult for the faculty member.
The women described in this article are definitely not deadwood, under any meaning of the word, except perhaps the term being applied to anyone who has been around for a long while. Wonderful, inspiring teachers are hard to come by, especially in the tier 1 research universities where the premium is on bringing in research dollars.
OSU, and probably a good many other major universities in the US, needs to reevaluate its mission so that it is inclusive of faculty who are dedicated, inspiring, teachers. There should be a place in every department for a person who is a good teacher as well as those who bring in the dollars or publish dozens of papers. And, universities need to have better trained administrators, especially at the lower echelons of the administration, such as department chairs.
24
We live in a strange country. Older people performing jobs that may affect only a handful of people, worry they will be fired because employers view older workers as "resistant to change" or "dull in their thinking." Yet Supreme Court Justices, who have the responsibility of making decisions that will affect all of us for generations, are allowed to serve for life!
100
Scalia and Kennedy are examples of that; Scalia left a clone on the Court; he is also old and a terrible Justice.
2
This is a quadruple win for the left!
Women benefit. Labor interests benefit. The elderly benefit. And people who do not speak English benefit.
In dark times like these, it’s nice to see the left win!
35
This shouldn't be framed as a right vs. left issue. Many workers who see themselves as conservative and think they despise the left suffer from the same discrimination at work. It's a win for everyone.
23
What has this to do with political orientation? Nothing. Since most universities lean politically more to the left the people doing the discrimination were likely left wing also.
23
Agree with Moira. We have got to stop looking at events so dualistically, as though all court decisions and major policy shifts can be viewed as a win for one of two sports teams.
1
Poor journalism: the offending administrator was not named, nor was a comment from the administrator included. The latter depends on the administrator, the former depends on the NY Times doing its job, which it did poorly in this instance.
31
Idiots appear at all ages, as do the intelligent and the wise. I've been both at all of the ages I've lived. I hope to continue being both until I leave this mortal coil. If I suffer age discrimination at my workplace I'll summon all the energy of the youth in me and all the wile of my years to pursue a legal case as well as a political one. Beware of an energetic elder as an enemy.
23
When I was in my 20's, I worked at a small clothing boutique with only a few employees. The company went through a rough patch and I was let go. The owner of the shop told me I was chosen because I was the youngest and that compared to me, the other employees, whom I knew to be in their 40s and 50s, would have a harder time finding another job because of their age. The owner went on to tell me I was also chosen because one of the other employees had a slight physical disability and she would have faced extra hardship. My then-husband's work hours had been cut and we really needed my job and we struggled to make ends meet before I found another job almost two years later. Would it have been rougher for the other employees? Who knows. But was it right for my employer to decide on that basis? It is tough for anyone who loses their job. And age discrimination can happen to anyone. At any age.
On a positive side, I met my future and current husband while working at the job I found after I was out of work.
6
Legal age discrimination is defined as occurring at age 40 or above, so there may be an ethical question involved but not a legal one.
18
You do not say how long you worked there. You do not say how long the other employees had worked there. That would certainly play a part in who stays and who goes. This was during a time when businesses were rapidly closing during the Great Recession. The other employees may well have had more seniority and therefore the employer felt an obligation to them. It is true that 40 - 50 year olds do have a harder time getting jobs. And it is nice to hear that an employer does feel an obligation to their more vulnerable employees.
17
Yes age and gender discrimination are alive and well - a PhD from one of the top 20 universities in the world at 65 (4 years to complete), publications in top journals, students mentored, and passed over by everyone except the younger generation. I do think universities are the worst offenders - inbred with tenure as job security.
28
Without tenure university and college research would be constrained by the interests of politicians and corporations. Faculty would be hired and fired on the basis of political considerations and financial power. There are indeed some faculty that take the awarding of tenure as the beginning of a light-work career, but their numbers are relatively small. Businesses have slackers who manage to keep their jobs. Even with these protections, those without tenure often are the servants of financial and corporate power, especially in the sciences.
11
Not surprising in the trumpian/republican era we are in. Don't worry - the Supreme Court will always protect the people. HA!
9
lol - are you suggesting that this phenomenon is something attributable to "the trumping/republican era" rather something that has been going for a very long time now? If so, facts clearly show you're dead wrong.
4
certainly not begun in the trump regime, but most definitely encouraged and more importantly not punished. At the age of 71 I have seen more than enough age discrimination over my working career, but I am also fully aware of what is happening now with this trumpian era. Sounds like you may not be!
1
It's so interesting... why is society so unconsciously repugnant of age -- in the workplace and elsewhere too -- when it happens naturally to all of us, at equal rates?
28
You make a good point, but I would also include that society likes women to 'know their place' along with knowing when they are "too old" to be useful to society. Luckily, most of today's women are not getting the 'know their place' message.
38
I think unconsciously and consciously many people fear the reminder of their own mortality, and when they look at older workers, they are reminded of their own advancing age. People find it hard conceptualizing the fact that they will also die--even though it is natural--and they avoid reminders of death that will touch them and those they love.
10
The supervisor described in the story sounds unprepared and ignorant. All reviews of employees should be based on performance and use of objective measures as much as possible. That still may not protect a company or organization from an age related complaint, but is one piece that will protect the organization if taken beyond the complaint stage.
Another lesson for supervisors is to NEVER put anything in an email that you wouldn't say to someone in person.
And lastly, don't discriminate based on any personal characteristic. Don't generalize. Won't prevent employees from filing, but then they won't prevail.
8
"Another lesson for supervisors is to NEVER put anything in an email that you wouldn't say to someone in person."
Quite true ... early in my career I was told to never do anything I did not want to see reported on the front page of the New York Times (company was not in New York but that was the example) or of the Wall Street Journal.
1
When I started work in financial services in 1980 I made the assumption that I was expendable and budgeted accordingly; I lasted a third of a century. At 58 I retired involuntarily after training seven "resources" in India using an online facility. Anthropologists tell us that societies can have the young teaching the old and the old teaching the young; it varies. If I had to chose between three doctors, ages 35, 45 and 65, I would chose age 45. To call young folk slackers is to ignore The Great Recession. To call old folk superior service providers is to ignore the law of entropy. It's complicated.
7
My anecdotal experience: Younger workers spend more work time arranging their social lives, parenting lives, personal lives. Ever worked with a woman about to get married? With young children at home? Older workers spend more time doing the job plus they are more efficient and more appreciative of their job.
37
As an "older worker" (59 years old, 35+ years experience in my field, 12 years in my currant job)I have seen commitment to the job is less about age and current life style and more about the individual. I was as committed to my job when I had school age children at home as I am now with fewer responsibilities at home. There are young women (all women at my job) who have toddlers at home who are great employees, and women my age who seem to be burned out and are taking the easy way out every day. And young women who slack off and older women who give many more hours than they are scheduled. This is about the individual's commitment, not an "age" thing.
46
I am a tenured professor and I have mixed feelings about the age issue in academia. It is a fact that many older professors are simply regurgitating their courses that they have been teaching for many decades in some cases. Academic innovation is coming primarily from younger non-tenure track faculty who are often paid much lower salaries than age-matched tenured faculty. The contributions of established faculty to curricular innovation are often negligible, and the departmental academic committees are strongly resistant to change. The reality is that university administrators face demographic and bureaucratic challenges that are difficult to solve.
6
As an older employee I certainly would not like to see anyone let go due to age. Yet, my child, five years after post-doctoral work, cannot seem to find a tenure track opening at a US university, at least in part because those positions are held by older professors who teach one seminar a semester when they are not on their Sabbatical year. I don't know what the solution is....
12
Tenure track jobs are eroding and have been cut substantially over the last 20 years, replaces by adjunct labor or full time non-tenured positions. Even if some of those folks retired, it's possible that their lines would not be replaced. It was once 70% tenure, 30 NTT. Now it's the opposite. That is what's happening in academia.
3
It's not about older faculty who aren't doing their jobs. It's about higher ed in the US being taken over by corporate types who are reducing full-time faculty lines because they can get cheaper labor to do the job. They think this because they do not value teaching experience and because in some cases--particularly in public unviersities and colleges--they are responding to often catastrophic cuts in financial support from state legislatures. Legislators such as these do not value research efforts and often think teaching is easy and that anyone can do it effectively. But this is untrue.
We live in an increasingly anti-intellectual society and culture and this is one more bit of evidence to support that conclusion. The victory of these women blunts this trend, but only to a small extent.
5
There are pension funds, that lose the stability of 30 year depositors, and it is questionable, if workers are churned continually, whether sufficient new contributions can come in to support future retirees. There is the shadow economy, the older people who own their homes and can provide support to younger family members, an aspect that isn't counted in economic measures, but will tell when it's missing. But also, much of this, aside from revealing a deleterious teaching and learning environment spreading such ideas, is bigoted in a number of ways, from personal remarks, to fantasies about other people's future plans. Fair treatment means dealing with what pertains specifically to the task, not labeling people and divining their intentions.
7
Age discrimination is rampant. I know so many people who suddenly found themselves unemployable at 50.
At the same time, I think we all remember some elderly teachers who *were* dead wood -- and I say that though I'm coming up on 64 myself.
It is a self-serving myth to suppose that we don't at some point become rigid and lose effectiveness as we age. Tenure and age discrimination laws are a particularly deadly combination, since it is virtually impossible to fire an employee for cause.
12
Any employee who is allowed to become ineffective at their job should be managed for performance improvement, no matter their age. If a workplace has a high number of employees who are not meeting requirements that's management's responsibility. If longer-term employees show worse performance, it's just as likely a result of bad management going unchecked for too long.
2
Patty, in this case, it's because we lose effectiveness as we age. At 64, I'd be lying if I said I had the same energy and desire to learn that I did when I was in my prime. We tend after a certain point to continue with what we know rather than adapting.
And while it is of course important for management to do what it can to improve the performance of employees, the employee bears ultimate responsibility for doing his or her job. The good and bad employees at the companies at which I've worked over the years were good or bad because of their own attitude and ability, not management's -- not that I haven't seen bad management that subverts the efforts of good employees!
Generalizations are insidious. We are all unique. Some of us ossify by our early 30’s; some become more flexible over the course of their lives. Evaluating each person on the basis of the quality of their work and behavior is essential to a progressive society.
4
The identity of this program director should be revealed so other employers don't hire this imbecile. Comparing people to young bucks and hippos and being stupid enough to copy a staffer in on a disparaging email... Who would hire a moron like this in the first place?
58
Re Karen
“Who would hire a moron like this in the first place?”
The Ohio State University
There are plenty more like him in corporate America.
18
David - there are plenty of them in non-corporate, i.e, government, America too!
Knowing universities as a I do, I am sure everyone at OS knows who it was by now.
1
I am curious whether the administrator whose paper trail caused the university so much trouble in court got fired. The article never specified.
19
Why does it take a misdirected email to see what is as plain as the nose on your face? We value diversity in all things but age.
In spite of extremely successful careers, I have relatives who were surprisingly “let go” after 50. They don’t even get a callback after submitting hundreds of resumes. The low unemployment rate is a cruel taunt to these people.
We are leaving mature, sober, dedicated employees by the wayside. It is the loss to the companies and to the employees and their families. I can’t help but think that health insurance is the determining consideration of the employer. Unhinging health insurance from employment will help older workers find jobs.
45
If the older worker is replaced, as often happens, by a younger one, the company usually saves some money. The other "advantage" of younger employees is that they are easier to push around, since they don't yet know all the unethical things that companies do.
9
'Dead Wood,' that's the give away. You can thank Jack Welch, former CEO of General Electric for the 'Dead Wood' concept. He advocated firing 10% of the employees every year because there's always a 10% that are underperforming. Nothing like a newly minted MBA coming into the organization looking for dead wood to cut for a morale booster.
23
When I worked for GE and for Shell Oil, the process was called "forced ranking." Managers got together in a meeting once per year and ranked their employees from the top to the bottom. The employees at the bottom were given a "lack of work" notice and suddenly they were gone. Older people didn't necessarily rank at the bottom. Often the lowest rankings went to younger people. Managers called them "bad hires" but these managers were never penalized for their poor judgment.
12
I worked for a major financial firm that had managers rank individuals in each department in the company on a bell curve. So a department of 4 people would have a mandatory underperforming individual as well as a department of 20 people. Great for morale. Also good for ranking the 50+ group in small bites. Another great incentive was reassigning managers and have everybody resubmit their resumes. It was frequently the case that job descriptions would be embellished and the older employees no longer fit the qualifications for their current job.
2
We just gave Mr/Ms a buyout and were able to institute a savings by hiring three idiots, paying each two thirds her wage.
I am now more important because I have a bigger army, and that busybody isn't telling me you can't do that, it is a violation of company policy- the law.
It is better to start anew each day than have institutional memory, and besides I just invented the wheel-internet.
Lets have a meeting-team building exercise to applaud me, rather than dealing with the backlog created after we shed old skin.
14
I worked at a university where the older department staff were either let go, or demoted and harassed, making their jobs almost impossible to maintain.
The university's defense against discrimination suits was that they retained one person over the age of forty (the lone person who was not harassed) and therefore they did not discriminate based on age.
17
Given the current penchant of Republicans to roll back any law or regulation passed since 1970 or earlier, the age discrimination law of 1974 appears ripe for their machinations.
20
Thank you Julianne and Kathryn for fighting the good fight.
34
It doesn't say what action (if any) the University took against the director/program administrator that caused all this mess. Being hired back by the same low life who made them sick with stress is hardly a victory. And shows virtually no consequences for an individuals bad behavior.I haven't been old er than my bosses in at least 15 years. I dye my hair, walk and talk fast. And deliver more than my younger colleagues. But I hear things that trouble me. One young woman (in her late 30's) said to me that our place was great because in her last job it was just old people sitting around doing next to nothing and waiting to retire. I just looked at her. I don't think she had any idea that I was old enough to be her mother. But I know getting my next gig later this year may take some time. Not ready to hang up my spurs.
35
I congratulate these women because they persisted. I honor their work. Being 62 and looking for work myself is daunting. I've applied online for many jobs and don't get any response. In person as well. I have extensive hotel/ hospitality experience, 3 real estate licenses and have owned businesses including being able to roast coffee. In every case it is due to my age. Employers you'd think would want some maturity and experience and dependability. But that is not the case. I wasn't asking for top jobs. I've asked AARP for advice and pretty much if you're anywhere near my age and want to keep working, you're discriminated against. Your choices are self employment or you are on your own. Worse, with proposed cuts to individual health plans and higher premiums, the choice becomes taking social security earlier because in this culture today, its sad we aren't even considered.
38
There is another issue here, which is that Americans are not guaranteed a pension or funds for their retirement. Work is important to one's sense of self-esteem, one's pleasure in life and all that, but it's also essential for life itself. Social Security cannot maintain one's pre-retirement standard of living. There may be a need for older adults to step aside to ensure there are jobs for younger people, but when one's expectable number of years in retirement could be twenty or more, they simply cannot afford to do this. A more generous and equal national pension, such as they have in many countries in Europe, would help allow people to leave their jobs without fear of starvation and homelessness. Then older adults could find other fulfilling ways of living besides working. And of course, those countries have national health insurance so retired adults don't have to worry about that either.
31
I agree with Ms. Tabor and would add that some older Americans continue to work (even if they have a secure retirement) to help pull the lifeline of their children so that they can get on the right side of the ever worsening economic divide of this country.
12
Age discrimination is pervasive for many reasons--stereotyping, fear of rising experience rating for group health, and so on. Even in the private sector, however, it is very difficult to get relief. One organization pursuing regular discriminatory terminations of those over 50 dismissed the potential damage because they had in their estimate better lawyers. While the EEOC is busy policing other forms of illegal discrimination, ageism runs amok.
11
I have never understood why so many young people believe that grey hair causes one to become brain dead or less willing to change. The odd thing about much of this is these younger workers were taught by older people with experience. They seem to have amnesia to that fact.
35
I was laid off at age 64. I was a Sr. Director with technical & management skills in a high-demand field (cloud computing), and excellent performance reviews. None of that mattered then, and it doesn't matter now. And if I was the person hiring, I'd be reluctant to hire someone close to retirement also. Nobody is owed a job, but company policies should recognize reality and balance performance with consequences. Anyone over age 59-1/2 should be offered a voluntary layoff package, a lower position or smaller salary, or given special consideration due to decreased chances of finding another job. Remember: layoffs occur because of a corporate issue, not a performance issue.
3
Grey hair doesn’t exist in the Silicon Valley. Those of us old enough to have it cover it in order to stay in the workforce.
4
For most people, 30 years experience is nothing more than repeating 6 months of experience 60 times. That doesn’t make you better, it makes most people exhibit calcified thinking, low energy and that befuddled sadism many government agencies exhibit.
The big-4 accounting firms have mandatory retirement at 60. They audit for a living, they’re only doing what’s best.
Doesn’t make cruel treatment right, however, I’m glad the women were paid out. I’d imagine they’d have preferred a celabratory retirement lunch, perhaps with a nice thank you plaque.
Wow, making generalizations that are unfounded and ignorant. A 30 year career for many is not doing the same thing day in and day out. Many people have had more than one job and types of work they have done. There are many pros to experience. These include maturity, experience, trustworthiness, reliability, problem-solving abilities, etc that younger colleagues likely don't have. Some older people are valuable as employees, some are not. Can say the same about younger employees.
16
Doesn't your logic suggest everyone should be fired every six months? How long have you worked at your current position?
Intelligent people often continue to grow, learn, gain maturity in their judgement as they age.
19
They were rehired. And paid back wages.
1
Thank you Ms. Moon, Ms. Taaffe and the AARP for fighting back - and of course this was gendered. I see senior academic men gaining access to well-paid admin positions all the time - not women.
I wonder - did the American Association of University Professors help?
20
Age discrimination is wrong. Period. But the situation at universities is more complex. There are numbers of senior tenured faculty who cannot be fired, regardless of scholarly productivity and service to the institution. We had someone in my department who did not publish any more, serve on any committees, mentor any graduate students, or do any university service at all. He just taught his courses. Yet he stayed until he died on a full professor’s salary, while junior people cannot find tenured jobs and end up teaching at several institutions for very low pay.
11
During my career I worked at 3 universities. In all three cases, a faculty workload was a combination of research/publishing (with graduate students as collaborators or trainees to be mentored, this usually counts as "teaching"), committee/service, and teaching.
The person you elude to probably had a much higher teaching load than his research and committee active colleagues. I also cringe at "just taught his courses." Teaching was by far the most difficult of my three areas of work (thankfully, I enjoyed it). Many colleagues strove to achieve sufficient research grants to only "have to" teach 1 course every other year (to be called faculty they have to teach a course once in awhile). Some disliked teaching, but most considered it too time consuming, because for many universities "good teaching" is too difficult to measure and therefore, not a significant part of the metric-driven performance review.
I accept that the tenure system has caused some professors, who have few non-academic hobbies or interests become robotic in their teaching. Speaking from the perspective of an "older" professor, this problem could be solved if Universities would give a tiny bit of respect for excellent teaching, and incentives for innovative teaching. In my sunset years, I was fortunate to be given these incentives and I daresay was not considered dead wood before I retired!
9
As long as people making the decisions view human beings as expendable objects and liabilities, we regress as a civilized society.
16
With well informed lawyers and well oiled HR departments federal discrimination legislation, is normally useless, as is the expense of challenging your employer when you get canned. Went through the era when you became 55 you had a bullseye on your back . When list are prepared for getting rid of people. It goes like this Salary, benefit cost, and age. Then there is exporting your function to India.
8
This is symptomatic of the T***p era. Even when they rehire these women, pay back pay and benefits, they can't admit they were wrong and guilty of obvious violations. I am sick of the dissembling that goes on, even in the scholastic arena.
7
The discrimination in question happened between 2010 and 2014. That would be under Obama's watch.
2
I wasn't referring to the discrimination, I was referring to the inability to concede they were in violation. The dissembling was clearly under T***p's watch. That was my point.
1
"The dissembling was clearly..."...so are you saying that wouldn't have happened on the Obama or Bush or Clinton watch?
Let’s hope people begin to contact Mr. Eckhart’s current employer and voice their displeasure.
5
The male supervisor of these two women should also be investigated for sex discrimination, based on him comment that older employees should "make way for young bucks." I hope he one day knows what it feels like to have his job threatened, as the law comes down on him. He should be reassigned...and to a cramped space with inadequate resources and lower pay...while he awaits a serious job performance review.
25
The overlooked irony of age discrimination as outlined in this article: more and more open, candid and frank discussions taking place in both the media and in the workplace regarding how many employers are not getting the performance they are used to/desire/expect out of the workforce they've hired in over the past five years or so, versus the workforce that has been "laid off" via "reorganizations" (which can lead to forced retirement), etc.
At my employer, two members of the executive leadership team (lead by/reporting in to the president) have been very vocal in lamenting how tired they are of their direct reports coming to them complaining of the lack of performance of new hires, and how it is taking two (or more) people to do the job that one previous ("older") worker used to do.
One asked me directly, "How do we get them to perform?".
And yet, the bean counters somehow can't see how this costs the company the same as - if not more than - retaining "older workers"...
Another commenter is correct: it is about money, but far too many companies are being penny wise and pound foolish.
10
There are other factors besides employee traits that go unnoticed. Poor leadership can lead to poor performance. When leaders allow politics to prevail over quality of work, that can cause conflict that obstructs the fulfillment of work goals. It can also lead to a hostile environment.
Leadership is underrated.
2
The funny thing is women live longer than men and are usually healthier. But we get the seasoned older male and the deadwood female. Nothing new- same discrimination different life phase.
31
Unfortunately, this rarity will disappear as Trump packs the courts, EEOC. and NLRB.
Maybe those Baby Boomers who are increasingly identifying as conservative, will start to pay attention as the Republican war against ordinary (i.e., non-plutocrat) Americans begins to affect them.
12
The Department chairman says "Your remaining few years at XXX will be unpleasant." Is that evidence of age discrimination?
9
That's exactly how it's done. Only in future he will just do it--and not say it.
9
When my husband was laid off (sorry, "forcibly retired") from a fortune 500 company, his boss said happily at the meeting that it was OK that he was losing his job, because he could retire. Foolishly, my husband had not developed the habit of secretly recording his meetings, and had no real recourse to pursue age discrimination, because it was, according to a labor lawyer, a "he said, he said" case.
Pro Publica has done a lot to make it public at the company, and some people now on the list, can be taken off if other groups want to hire them. When my husband was put on the resource action list, three execs tried to bring him into their group, but the rule was set: if you were put out to pasture, you stayed out to pasture.
Most of us are unlucky enough that the idiot who decided we are dinosaurs at 50 or 55 don't put their feelings into writing. And we look at a future of poverty, because we have already spent a substantial portion of the savings we need on colleges who have a formula that translates to "take everything."
So good people who actually understand details, like where the data is, or how to fix the program or tool, or who has the know-how to get something done, have the experience to train the next generation, are looking for jobs and applying for medicaid, while the guy who fired them is struggling because he had no clue how much knowledge he let go.
Expect no relief though. Our national philosophy is that bad things happen only to bad people.
14
Maybe I missed it but what did Ohio State do to the miscreant(s) who cost good employees a lot of agita and cost them a lot of money? If those arrogant white men - I'm assuming the air of entitlement here - are still there and unpunished, then it's a mixed win.
15
Dear Ohio State University,
You have just given your university and your state a hard kick to the gut. May more of the #MeToo women come calling and I hope they do NOT accept No from you as an answer for some of your ways.
University employees, join the unions and have some rights.
Please clean up your act.
A Senior Citizen
22
The major fact, aside from the blatant illegality of what these "young bucks" did, is that if any people should be fired for generational incompetence, of course it would be millenials. The "participation trophy", "safe room", "intersectionality", "micro aggression", "cultural appropriating", "gender fluid", "non-binary" children who never grow up also have no idea of how to work and produce as individuals. Instead, they must be able to hide out on "teams" in order to disguise their incompetence.
The university's abysmal lack of management with respect to illegal age discrimination must be publicly compared to their outrageous pandering to metooers when they complain about distasteful but totally legal behaviors. The latter crimes are punished by immediate firing, often based solely on one person's unsuopported complaints to @metoo.
4
WHY is this categorised as Health? The Times needs an Equity section.
15
the NY Times has done the same thing
5
When Trump finds out about this ruling, he'll replace the EEOC with more biased commissioners. Probably some old white bigots.
8
I am curious what the age was of the new managing administrator who caused all this chaos in their work environment. It certainly seems like the person is woefully inexperienced as a manager.
36
You would be surprised. This type of administrators think they are above the rules they lay down for everyone else.
Fascinating story and once again Ohio State U is in the news for bad practices. What a place it must be. I found that, unlike this manager who is clearly not a good manager, "older" employees ( I prefer Longer-serving) are usually the most anxious to try new things having seen what works and doesn't work over they years. Good for them, and for the attorneys that assisted the (including AARP). Another shame on OSU.
26
Older employees often feel and act entitled to higher pay due to their experience, experience which was accumulated while on the clock and thus which has already been paid for. Where I’ve worked fir four decades, our turnover averages 300-400% with the shortest stays among the oldest applicants. And I say that as a 60 year old client site manager.
1
From, I have no idea what you are complaining about.
3
From,
If your turnover is 300 - 400% your problem lies with the company management and policies, not with the employees.
3
New teachers often get taken advantage of and work outside of contracted hours, given too many students or caseloads. Then they leave the teaching field. I had an administrator once say to me, "I don't need your complaining, I could hire two new teachers for you." Because of early retirements, the facility has become much younger where I work. Now it has backfired because since they are all having babies and have young children the complaint is now about too much sick-time and use of the healthcare.
22
Education has become simply another business, with all that implies. The deconstruction that is management reduced it to objectives and key performance indicators, stripping away the substance of inquiry, didactic learning, and thought. Once it became clear that grooming was it's goal it turned into Satyricon.
16
OSU got off too cheap. A couple of zero's added to the settlement and the creation of a fund to support similar claims by other (there are others) former and distressed employees would help more than a paper mache policy change.
The supervisor should take a leave....
60
The supervisor should be transferred or dismissed.
8
Terminated with extreme prejudice comes to mind!
I watched a very similar thing happen at the midwestern university where I used to work. Older women who had received glowing reviews for decades got new young supervisors who found fault after fault and hounded them into retirement or low-prestige jobs where they were at best ignored and at worst persecuted. I managed to avoid it for awhile, but once it started I got out for the sake of my health. It's brutal to be treated like deadwood after a long career of hard work and dedication.
103
Not only "dead wood", but "old school". Maybe a milder term, but disparaging none the less.
4
I worked for a government agency which handled things differently: They offered senior employees a buy-out and early retirement. The agency was able to hire twice as many new employees.
Unfortunately, the new employes had little experience and things did not go well. People are not cogs.
95
Those who many younger supervisors consider 'dead wood' are those with the most experience. The idea is to replace them with younger people who would be more innovative.
Unfortunately, many innovations take time and money to put into place and ultimately fail; older workers can easily say, "Tried that, didn't work."
26
"The idea is to replace them with younger people who would be more innovative." - The idea is to replace them with people who are CHEAPER.
194
Well, that's just great. The Republicans in Congress want to get rid of Social Security and Medicare and nobody wants to hire older people. Is this just a complicated way to tell us to drop dead?
145
Don't worry, Linda, they'll give you a pill.
17
They'd set us out on the ice floes but I guess global warning may make that problematic.
61
But they'll bill your estate for that pill.
2
While age discrimination based on personal prejudice certainly exists, several additional factors also come into play, especially in large business corporations. Personnel, in many industries, are often hired at relatively low salaries and offered annual raises as an incentive to stay on and to work harder. Eventually, a senior employee becomes too expensive and a cheaper, younger replacement is brought in.
Employment-based health insurance is also a factor since a firm with older employees must pay higher health insurance expenses, adversely impacting the bottom line and the CEO's bonus.
11
Health care cost is an issue for employers of older workers? there is an answer universal health care system, that republicans oppose. Solutions exist but cruelty seems to be the policy of the government and its supporters.
17
Ohio State has a Law School with Law Professors. OSU played "I don't know"? It is as if Columbus Ohio, The State of Ohio, and The Ohio State University is a real illiterate, ignorant, hick town.
This case, along with the current GOP wrestling coach Jordan's "I didn't know" shows that OSU is not in the business of Higher Education, but more like Lower Education. Not brilliant smart, but dull dumb.
I think the OSU Ranking needs to be adjusted with a decrease, a big decrease. Intelligent people will not be a part of OSU in the Future, if they don't improve. Especially with new academic places for the academically competitive, being planned to enter the World Market. -----If OSU remains in existence.
44
Age discrimination has long been the rule in academia. Job descriptions are written to explicitly exclude experienced and usually more-senior candidates. Hiring committees would rarely consider older candidates even if they were obviously more-qualified, unless of course they were bring large amounts of grant dollars with them.
41
What happened to the discriminators? Any repercussions for them?
43
I am happy that Ms. Taaffe and Ms. Moon experienced a good outcome, but the main thing I learned from this article is is that tOSU's HR department didn't do a good job training the supervisory staff. They won because their bosses were transparently stupid in the way they discriminated against them (and even then it took 4 years and $325K in legal fees). Most companies are more sophisticated in the way they remove unwanted employees over 50.
I'm in my 50s and have spent years working with an arcane part of the software package my company sells. I'm still learning how our customer's use it - the software changes but the underlying math does not. When I returned to work after a lengthy absence taking care of my dying father, my boss asked if I could teach my job to a newly graduated engineer "in a few months"
73
this should be an editor's pick. Part of what made the lawsuit successful is that the manager of the ESL dept was so imprudent about everything she/he said and emailed to others. Central HR ignored the original complaint by the staff so that didnt look good either to the court.
13
Human Resources in most universities is lame to use less. HR is not there to help employees. If it were, the defendants would have lost their jobs.
2
In any job, always start worrying when they ask you to write the job discription for your job. It’s a dead giveaway.
5
Legal barriers also make it much harder to older workers to prevail in suing their employers for age discrimination in federal court under the current ADEA law. In 2009, the Supreme Court in a majority ruling raised the standard of proof for plaintiffs to prove age discrimination. It's not surprising that the following conservative justices, Roberts, Thomas, Kennedy, Scalia, and Alito were the majority ruling in that case.
It's up to congress now to strengthen and amend the current ADEA law to make it easier for older workers to prevail in court by lowering the threshold standard to prove age discrimination.
38
With a lot of Congressional leadership in their 70's and 80's even, perhaps they should be forced to retire and see how it feels.
7
We need an age limit on SCOTUS - how ya like me now?
4
A good friend of mine has been a teacher for more than 4 decades.
About 5 years ago I remember we had this conversation about students performances and she said that common assumptions about students' level getting lower were false : "I cannot believe how better my new students are compared to 20 years ago !…" To which I responded : "don't you think it's all about the teacher who's getting better over the years ?…"
A (good) older teacher is almost always better than a younger one if (s)he remains as dedicated to her / his students and still learning about her (his) field.
Always (or almost…) !…
Teaching is a craft and not an industry.
And as much as a cabinet maker is better at 60 than at 20, a teacher is better when older (provided of course that (s)he still loves his work, but that's another issue).
This world relies too much on the idea that "new" is necessarily better. It is true in many case when innovation responds to new demands in a new paradigm.
But this is mostly not the case when human experience is needed.
And where is human experience more needed than in transmitting knowledge and experience ?…
Glad these to women came out of this ordeal on top !
67
“he lamented that older staffers “were squatting on spots that should have been available to young bucks!””
Wow! Not only agist but racists.
35
I hate to burst your bubble, but “young buck” simply means younger person, more often male. I have never known it used to specify a certain race so maybe the word you were looking for was “sexist.”
I know this because a) I’m older, and b) I’m a teacher and know how to research something before I talk about it.
See? We’re not a complete waste of space.
7
"Bucks" are male members of the deer family. This has nothing to do with race.
2
Calling the older workers "hippos" indeed! Age discrimination is going to be a thing of the past when unemployment is low because of fewer immigrants legal or otherwise. Japan is facing this problem as well as other industrialized countries. I am glad these women hung in there - that there is no penalty for the bonehead supervisors is grating but life is unfair. I retired early at 57 from the federal government, but in my experience I recall working with veterans in my younger days. And I learned from them. But from about the 2000s young (not younger) people were coming in with degrees and no knowledge or even common sense. They knew all the buzz words not much else. No humility either about their ignorance. After a few attempts I let them fall on their own nonsense. If age discrimination is going to be an issue going forward we should start from the top. Any congress person, senator or president should be under 60.
31
When the University of Texas at Brownsville was "discontinued" and merged into a new "tier-one university," the University of Texas Rio Grande Valley, a list of professors eligible for retirement was made public and circulated. That list included tenured professors with excellent records of scholarship and service, but who were over fifty years of age. The new university would be staffed with young professors to insure a successful future. Those eligible for retirement would receive a severance cash payment of about half their yearly salaries. Those who did not choose to retire would be re-evaluated for employment as new faculty at UTRGV. As is well known in much of academia the rules can be stretched to accommodate the choices acceptable to the administration. Many professors, mainly older, who did not want to retire, were forced out by "dead wood"-like evaluations. In Texas, labor unions, if they exist, are almost totally powerless, let alone university faculty unions. Had it been Ohio, a class action suit might have been successful.
37
Wow! OSU is making some name for itself! Perverted sports staff! Poor administrators. Violations of employment law!
49
'The' OSU. Can't forget the 'The.' This is very important. Very.
This issue merits it's own post. And NY Times story.
The federal government is one of the worst age discriminators. Obama actually legalized age discrimination with his Executive Order:
https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2010/12/27/executi...
Most of us want a diverse workforce, but the result of this EO was the mass hiring students and recent graduates who were placed in mid-management positions that were not available for more experienced, educated employees to apply for. The more experienced employees who were working their way up to management were barred from the in demand positions that were given to graduates. I am not sure why the government didn't create entry level positions that allowed the students to work their way up. Perhaps it the government employees who misused the policy to discriminate?
I don't know if Obama was aware of the impact of this policy, but here it is:
"About 93% of applicants hired for 92,193 federal jobs under the U.S. government’s Pathways “Recent Graduates” Program from May 2012 to July 2017 were under the age of 40."
Now that age discrimination has been legalized, any organization can post jobs requiring applicants to have graduated from college within 2 years, for example. That would ensure they hire mostly young individuals.
http://www.abusergoestowork.com/2017/12/01/feds-engaged-in-age-discrimin...
(I am a reader, not the author, of this article.)
18
Adding examples here to illustrate my point-
Here is one of many job postings requiring the applicant to have earned his or her degree in the past 12 months:
https://g.co/kgs/LX2EzH
While people of all ages attend college, the large majority are younger.
It seems as though the federal government-the nations largest employer-has legalized discrimination. Google "recent graduate positions" in your city, and you will see an astounding level of age discrimination occurring.
17
To be fair, this particular job posting is for a program for recent graduates - as it clearly states at the top. I’m 50 and would never interpret this to mean Microsoft wouldn’t hire someone further out of school. They just wouldn’t qualify for this particular program. Does age discrimination exist? Certainly. The link you provided is not.
1
You're point makes no difference at all to this concept.
These are not 'programs'-they are jobs. The jobs require the applicant to be a student or to have graduated within 12 months. The effect is that most older people cannot apply.
there are many indirect ways to elder abuse in work place,in my case ,they overworked me by referring too many cases for three years in a row,despite my complaints and showing and documenting the number of cases ,going over their doctored records;the only option was either to sue or retire and keep my sanity,I RETIRED!
7
"State governments “are still learning there’s an age law...” "
And how many people in power, as well as those of the rest of us who are not, are learning that legally-based discrimination is but one example of an enabled, daily, WE-THEY culture. Which targets a range of created, selected "the others." Ethnicity. Gender. Gender identity. Religiosity.Weight. Height.Where one lives.Etc. Etc. It would have been important to briefly note what enabled these discriminators and violators to begin their harmful words and deeds. To continue. Even to expand and promote their illegal ways.It is useful to explore, in a science-evidence-based-era, how types of unnecessarily caused pains (physical, psychological, social, etc.), over much time, become transmuted into money. And experienced shame and guilt are not acknowledged. And personal accountability, as norms and values, are not part of "the final deal!" An aborted learning opportunity for all of us even as the initial suffering victims agreed to their compensation.
4
It happened to me at least three times. Once you're over 40: look out.
26
Sadly age-discrimination is rampant particularly here in Silicon Valley-SF area where. Over the past 2+ decades I've watched people over age 50 disappear from the workforce--many to be replaced by H1-B visa recruits who make up more than half the employee base. The active discrimination against Ms. Taaffe and Ms. Moon fortunately came to light--but not before significant harm was done to them and their colleagues. I hope the suit findings haunt the two supervisors and the threat of more financial damages keeps the university on track. These two women deserve a lot more.
47
Ann, speaking from working in the tech field in CA and FL, age discrimination is rampant. However, if someone really needs people, and you don’t mind taking a small pay cut, you usually can get a job. And you will make a good living.
8
Paula Span and Times editors, can you explain why the director of the ESL program in question is not named in this piece? I find that a very interesting act of omission.
75
Excellent question!
3
good for them to fight. In the private sector much harder as they quickly make a case and push you out and dare you to sue. Government jobs with early retirement just go on to a nice slightly reduced pension and all is well.
9
Why is this article buried in the Health Section? It should be in Business andon the Front Page. Age discrimination, especially against women, is pervasive and insidious, despite the "laws" against it. Since women have also been consistently paid less than men, age discrimination hurts them just when they need to be able to take care of themselves most.
166
Interesting perspective.
Can anyone say say why older women are more likely to be discriminated against? I also noticed comments about how younger workers are often less expensive. This is sometimes true, but at some organizations, it's the other way around--people who are inexperienced are paid more than those who have more competencies. It's another form of age discrimination.
I ask because the statistics match my experience and what I see around me at multiple organizations. I was offered jobs left and right when I was young and also very attractive by society's standards.
Now that I have a history of continuously updating my skills and education, in addition to years of experience that was transformed into wisdom that increases my resourcefulness, problem solving abilities, and strategic planning capabiltiy, the jobs offers fizzled.
#misogynyMe2?
28
(Mrs. Neal here, a data point of n=1, i.e., anecdote.) My whole department was "downsized" in 2009 when I was the manager, in my 50s, and the only woman. I applied for jobs for years without any success. The phone interviews would be good. The in-person interviews would be great. They'd say things like, "When could you start?" Then, I'd get the call from HR that they "decided to go another direction." All I can think is that someone, somewhere in each of these offices verbalized, "I don't want my mom in this office." This happened again and again. I always had contract work (I'm good at what I do), but I never had another full-time job. The men who were let go at the same time I was? They all got jobs within a few months, even during that tough time.
3
..."“age usually gets left out when companies think about diversity,”" - well, sadly, that also applies to many other areas of our culture there days. We simply do not respect older members of society as do other countries. Look how, for instance, in these columns on an almost daily basis, "old" is affixed to epithets (as in "old white men" used to explain whom to blame in virtually everything) without the bat of an editorial eye.
The media fawns over the young, from thinking we should listen to their political "wisdom" during every election cycle, or from pols who think 16-year olds should be given the vote. It's still okay to make older people, especially men, the butt of ageist jokes on TV and in movies - almost every TV dad, for instance, is portrayed as an out of touch imbecile, though women are generally spared that degradation (hey, that would be sexist but it's okay to hit the men with it).
Hopefully actions like the lawsuit and victory here will help to bring about some modicum of improvement, but, sadly, I am not overly optimistic.
14
Age discrimination is far more common in the US than race or sex discrimination. Why? Because it's rational. Older workers are in general less productive, less imaginative, less willing to work heroic hours than younger workers. The law can do little about this. The law may make it harder for firms to get rid of older workers, as in this case, but it does nothing, and can do nothing, about the reluctance of firms to hire older workers. We may regret this - as an older worker who has personally faced age discrimination, I do - but that's life.
5
Your post is rife with biases. Where is the actual proof that older workers - as a class or group - are “less productive, [or] less imaginative”? Some of the laziest workers I’ve seen, busy chatting or on their phones are younger workers. Imaginative is fine, but one of the benefits of older workers is they’ve “been there” and can offer experience and background when a younger worker proposes a “solution” that’s already been done and failed.
As for the “heroic hours”, do you mean unreasonable hours demanded by some employers? Hardly sounds heroic to me!
12
Your comment provides an excellent example of age discrimination. You offer a series of slurs without one iota of evidence.
Perhaps you were "less productive, less imaginative, less willing to work heroic hours," but that does *not* mean all workers over 40 share those descriptions.
9
I retired at 65, and when I was 64 I was working 60-hour weeks sometimes and occasionally even doing all-nighters on a major project for a global energy company. The project was quite large, and there were no younger staffers doing all-nighters that I was aware of. And believe me, no one on the project was qualifying me as "unproductive." It is so very tempting to generalize, but the problem with generalizations statistically is that they are useless in any particular situation.
8
Congrats to these women for successfully fighting back.
What happened to the program director who forced them out? Is he their boss again? Is he fired or gone through ‘retraining’?
Apparently his boss thought he was doing a good job since he was allowed to treat longtime employees that way.
There are serious administrative problems at that University.
28
Some excellent advice here in these comments! It"s an open secret that age discrimination is blatantly practiced at all levels and job categories in this country today. Often it is carried out under the guise of cost-cutting, but more often those positions end up being filled by higher cost (and younger) replacements.
One question, though: why is the Ohio State administrator who practiced this discrimination shielded by anonymity in this story? Remember, they were the perp, not the victim.
46
Key to these age discrimination lawsuits is a journal of offenses and a good attorney. My late husband came prepared with both when he filed his age discrimination lawsuit and he won.
38
Brave women! Great role models for standing up for what is right. They not only got justice for themselves but for countless others who would otherwise be in the same boat at OSU.
At age 57, I recently experienced something similar. I was praised for my work year after year. I represented the agency with a higher degree of professionalism than most. Yet when a new, young male boss came around, after he settled in, he began to promote young, inexperienced women and he began to suggest that at least three of us--women of a certain age who each do excellent work-- are somehow "problematic". He had the director who confided in me the most about this pattern fire me. The good news. I am out that toxic, fear-based environment. On to new things and places where I am fully appreciated.
32
We live in an age where longer term engagement with productive, enriching employment is becoming compelling. People are living longer and keeping these people engaged will become increasingly important as birth rates decline. The trick is to create a mix where organizations can evolve verdantly, that said some people become complacent and obstructive to this process. The days of cradle to grave employment are past- expect more nimble employment and shorter tenure. Act two may well be more self-generated with long incubation and a creation of genuine value added need.
4
Now you are talking Paula or actually printing.
Instead of endless NYTimes feminist promotional stories on why women should get 50% of everything whether they deserve if or not or even want it and that men are evil print more stories like this.
Read your headline. It said two sued for age discrimination. It did not say two women sued for age discrimination. It just happened that they were female.
Age discrimination is the current crime in America now, not inequality re women. Age discrimination is an equal opportunity offender. It has risen to the level of economic genocide for seniors. It affects all Americans, not just women.
Read what you said re race and gender. A comment against these two groups will usually get you in trouble.
Blatant economic genocide against seniors is the hardest case to win.
14
Genocide has a specific meaning. Words matter. Look it up, and also, temper your indignation with some respect for language.
14
I did Cogito. I said economic genocide for seniors, not human genocide.
I know plenty of them that were wiped out economically by age discrimination.
1
"Inequality re women" not currently a problem. Interesting you would decide to make that assertion given the current open hostility toward women in the Trump administration. The article points out that women are disproportionately affected with regard to age discrimination. The article is about age discrimination, and the subjects of said discrimination happen to be female.
15
And the director who wrote the inflammatory emails was terminated, right? Right?
25
Just like the creepy doctor in the wrestling program!
11
I was given the "package" when I closed in on age 66; I didn't want to retire but was forced into it.
As for these two ladies, I am disappointed that they faced age discrimination at Ohio State, my Alma Mater.
17
What happened to the program director? Did he face any consequences?
7
I truly enjoy emails that promote an event for the young leadership in the company, and when you approach this new leadership of the future for an idea what you hear are the same ones from 30 yrs ago just recycled. These young professionals are the ones that will bolt after 2-4 yrs in order to advance their careers and take with them the experience gleamed from us. There is nothing more pleasant then watching a manager struggle over the loss of their pride and joy young underlying. To the experienced, loyal, hard working 40 amongst us, I raise my glass !!
21
A key point is that it is discrimination when someone is pushed out in spite of good performance reviews, on the apparent assumption that younger is always better. Employers overlook the advantages of maturity and experience. I recall one highly esteemed colleague who was assigned as a troubleshooter to different units to clear up the messes created by younger colleagues. One instance was a training program leading to a professional certificate. The application process for the certificate is detailed and complex. The bright and credentialed younger colleague had no patience for the details, resulting in the applications for a large group of trainees being rejected, all for different reasons. The young person panicked and applied for a transfer, which was granted, and my colleague was brought in. She put in weeks of overtime learning the system requirements, redoing the rejected applications, and setting up a new application process that would function properly and avoid the previous problems. Her pleased supervisor exclaimed that she had saved the program. She is not afraid of complex problems and is willing to put in the time and effort to solve them, chiefly for the satisfaction of a job well done. She also couldn't bear the thought of the trainees not getting the hard-earned certificates necessary for their future careers. In other words, she cared about the people she was serving. Many times, older is better!
38
I think sometimes one thing that makes older workers appear less desirable to management is that older workers are inherently less enthusiastic about the latest clever new idea, not because we are averse to new ideas but because we've seen a bejillion of them come and go. We can often see why it's not going to work, but pointing out any problems just makes us look like a nay-sayer, or not a "team player." We have a needed skepticism, but it can be very challenging to put it across without making ourselves look bad, or being dismissed as simply not willing to get with the program. (In my recent experience, we are MOST skeptical about how new software is going to make everything better. Yeah, sure it is.)
81
It sounds like you're talking about idealism.
Oh yeah, the new software, constantly. We are awash with "change without improvement," as a character in "The Bluest Eye" said.
2
I have been associated with higher education since 1980. It has been my experience that higher education gets away with more systematic work discrimination than most organizations. Here you talk about employees. That does not begin to scratch the surface. One really needs to look at hiring records, how very competent and experienced applicants, who are older, are systematically rejected as applicants in place of younger less experienced. That is where the real story is.
62
Most companies get away with age discrimination. They simply lay off the older workers. The EEOC won't pursue a case if the employee signs an agreement--required by most large corporations-- as a condition to receiving severance pay.
Even if the employee refuses to sign the agreement and forfeits the severance pay, it's not likely he or she would win a lawsuit. Companies are allowed to lay off people to save money on salaries. Older people cost more.
So the age discrimination laws are largely hot air. Older people, especially women and especially single ones, are throwaways in a throwaway society.
81
"The EEOC won't pursue a case if the employee signs an agreement--required by most large corporations-- as a condition to receiving severance pay. " This just seems completely crazy to me. How in the world could we be expected to turn down the severance? Having just lost a job, it would be utterly irrational to refuse the money, especially for those of us with families to support. That is blocks any avenue to justice is outrageous.
15
A.L.E.C.-lobbied "cookie cutter" legislation has also gutted many job protections and converted states to an "at will" status where employment can be terminated at any time without consequence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment
10
Many experienced coders found themselves put out to pasture in their fifties, either nudged, harrassed, or laid off. Many of them post here, from what I've gleaned over the years. Ironically, the "retirement age" for programmers keeps shrinking so that now you are superannuated at forty, going from a princely salary to skid row in a blink. Soon it won't be funny anymore.
110
It's not funny now. For the past decade plus I've watched companies "lay" off older, more experienced, better salaried workers to save money and avoid costs associated with healthcare increases. They can hire lower-cost H1-B visa recruits from India without having to prove anything--let along age discrimination. Repeated layoffs and a gig economy working life; this is the new reality.
16
Raises hand to be counted. At least I didn’t have to train my replacement.
3
And the current Republican regime, spearheaded by Orrin Hatch, is seeking to increase the number of H1-B visas under the guise that highly skilled workers are not available in the United States. Microsoft, Google and others are supporting the very lies that result in the loss of good jobs for many 50 years old and older Americans. Those losing their jobs to those wrongfully granted these visas need to organize and speak up!
A friend's state supervisor (newly hired from the private sector) boldly proclaimed that he despised long-term state employees and would not give them any merit raises. Of course, that kind of attitude is considered perfectly acceptable now since the union is broken and Republicans control every area of state government.
193
Age discrimination still seems acceptable given there is rarely any outcry. One other ostensibly acceptable discrimination target is women seeking healthcare.
16
Just get him to put it in writing ... fortunately, some of these managers are STUPID and don't even notice when they're building the case against themselves.
6
shameful that this happens in USA ... this is stuff you expect in China or some other hell for workers
8
Sorry, I can tell you I’m in hell in the US now, aka working at Yale in finance. After years of being headed by a corporate slash-n-burn type who couldn’t stand that there were unique reasons and history for the way things were done (and loathed long term employees on principle), her parting gift was to push through a system replacement that has been crippling. It has been so poorly designed and thought out at so many levels, it would take a treatise to articulate how far backwards we have slid this past year following implementation. The only thing preventing a mass exodus is the horrible economic situation in CT. The place is dying. I’m looking at relocation and throwing away a lifetime of sunk costs and emotional investment because it is just not possible to keep going like this—this job is literally killing me and I am not over-stating the case in the least. However, in my 50s, it sure doesn’t seem like my chances of decent employment elsewhere are very good.
The working conditions have become intolerable, but it seems we are nothing more than Welch pit mining ponies who never see the light of the sun their whole lives and drop dead in the traces. I guess I keep my head down and keep pulling until that happens.
26
I hear ya. Gonna quote the Grateful Dead:
Now I don't know, but I been told
If the horse don't pull you got to carry the load.
I don't know whose back's that strong,
Maybe find out before too long.
Union! Union! Union! Might be time...., no? Exploitation, like a racism, just never seems to go away.
6
from retired attorney: "Sunlight is the best disinfectant" as noted by others here, but taking action against department chairs or work place supervisors is not the answer. The experienced attorney asks "What is the instruction from the top?"
OSU settled this case because its attorneys and Board and PR people said "OOPS! Age discrimination law on the books that we forgot to tell anybody about . . .for 50 years." Get the media engaged to achieve "sunlight." Then target those at the top who are the culpable bosses to get to settlements with fair dollars paid to those abused or wrongly terminated. In a settlement, the court can order lawyers be paid separately so that their fees+expenses do not come out of payments to plaintiffs.
The higher and more visible the exposed targets, the bigger the "no liability admitted" settlement numbers, e.g., the President of Michigan State University and the MSU Board for Dr. Nassar's decades long abuse of gymnasts.
64
" .. The higher and more visible the exposed targets, the bigger the "no liability admitted" settlement numbers, e.g., the President of Michigan State University and the MSU Board .."
How extremely odd. Facts are, many police agencies are *still* regularly on the MSU campus, due to Nassar.
http://www.wilx.com/content/news/Former-MSU-President-at-Michigan-State-...
https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/2018/06/29/michigan...
You are welcome.
2
why don't you name the administrator that sent that email. Why don't you tell us what happened to that person. I want to know the name of the idiot that cost the state of Ohio all of that money, wasted all of that talent and who in the hell put him in that job in the first place.
481
He's undoubtedly serving in the Trump cabinet as head of whatever agency oversees equal opportunity in employment.
19
He probably got promoted and is now some big wig at the university.
1
Names have been withheld to protect the guilty! In all likelihood -from my experience in dealing with university administrations- nothing happened to that administrator.
2
Good for them.
I note that the university took no action against the dirt bag who did this to them. May he receive his just reward -- and soon.
24
He died. See above.
8
Age discrimination is a dire situation.
It doesn't matter what you have to offer an organization. There are many young people resistant to change or developing new skills. I am unsure how older people get a bad rap for this, especially considering those teaching young people are often older.
As the retirement age risks being upped again, where are all of these people going to work?
Do people realize the federal government is one of the worst when it comes to age discrimination? I don't understand why NY Times doesn't look into this and report on it.
"About 93% of applicants hired for 92,193 federal jobs under the U.S. government’s Pathways “Recent Graduates” Program from May 2012 to July 2017 were under the age of 40."
http://www.abusergoestowork.com/2017/12/01/feds-engaged-in-age-discrimin...
(I am a reader, not the author, of this article.)
29
Yes. I wish the NYT would cover in-depth the rampant age discrimination in the federal government.
13
Maybe because Obama did this?
I have always supported Obama but cannot forgive him for legalizing age discrimination. What the federal government does often sets a precedent for other organizations, causing widespread harm to certain groups. Particularly middle-aged women.
The problem as stated in his EO is mistated. We all want a diverse workforce, but the problem isn't that recent graduates had problems entering government; it's that they don't want to start at the lower grades and work their way up.
But this is not how it works anywhere. People graduating with a MBA don't all start as key managers of a large organization. They have to work their way up to get there. Obama's policy allows students to start in mid-management or after one year, while those jobs filled by students aren't available to those who are both educated AND experienced and more qualified for the jobs.
https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2010/12/27/executi...
"The Federal Government benefits from a diverse workforce that includes students and recent graduates, who infuse the workplace with their enthusiasm, talents, and unique perspectives."
I’ve worked for three federal agencies. There is a great disparity in competence between those hired within the past 5-10 years and those hired 15+ years ago. More young people want to work in the federal government, particularly after the economic collapse 10 years ago, because it’s secure employment and the benefits are good. As a result, getting a job in the federal government has become much more competitive. I’ve heard a few older people with whom I work acknowledge that they would not get hired now at my current agency based on their credentials at the time they were hired many years ago. I’ve also seen many people over the age of 55 in more than one agency produce very little while getting paid ridiculous salaries. If the public was aware of it, there would be a huge backlash.
The same thing happened to me at the University of North Georgia. I was given a computer in a common room instead of an office. Even though I was an excellent experienced teacher with several students stating I was teaching a college level course unlike their other courses, the few students who did not comply with requirements were used against me to make me look incompetent. The chair of the department based her management on fear and control instead of academic freedom. The co-chair of the Spanish department, a young girl, could not even speak Spanish at all and would yell abusively at other professors in meetings that they were not demanding with their students. These inexperienced individuals where in charge of a department that did not meet the requirements needed to help the diverse population of students typical of an open-admissions institution. Since I had no money, the only choice I had was to file a complaint with the EEOC and the GEOC. After a year, they informed me there was no evidence of discrimination even though other older professors were influenced to retire. One who refused was set up for termination (https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/04/15/allegedly-rude-professor-.... In my case the result was I expected. Without money to hire private lawyers, faculty are subject to discriminatory practices that include gender and race biases besides age discrimination. It is time for regulation of higher education institutions.
113
Ironically, I interviewed for a position at this same college as did a friend of mine. Upon learning we had interviewed for the same position, we laughed but then began comparing notes and comments that were said during the interview. As a Human Resources graduate, I recognized the discriminatory remarks, the unprofessional air that took place during the interview, the hinting of personal questions. I walked away not wanting to work for an unprofessional entity, interviewers that did not understand how to represent their organization, professionally. I had also interviewed for another position at this same college and it too exhibited a lack of professionalism that one should expect from a University setting. I was not impressed. I am considered a senior, retired from education but my friend was not. It was not age discrimination but they asked questions that were of a personal nature that had no relevance to the job itself. One made comments that were totally inappropriate during an interview setting. More of gender discrimination. I correlate the fact that Interviewers that lack the knowledge, the know how to interview will tend to practice discrimination.
12
Time for stronger unions!
20
Members of a hiring team must be notified by the team chair regarding questions that cannot be asked in an interview -- that's standard operating procedure. An organization (in this case, a college) that fails to take even this simple step is completely out of compliance with professional standards and the law. Questions of a personal nature, or that bear even a slight possibility of being interpreted in such a way, are completely forbidden.
I'm always amazed by the enormous blind spot in people who think that older employees are "dead wood." There is limited benefit from the highly energized, out-of-the-box thinking that young hires occasionally show. More often, their lack of experience and deep perspective are employer challenges requiring on the job training and overlong annual review meetings.
40
Out-of-the-box thinking has nothing to do with age.
73
Curious what actions, if any, were taken by the university against the directors who engaged in this discrimination.
191
In my experience/knowledge Deborah, probably none. Age discrimination in America is treated the way discrimination against blacks or women pre 1980 or sex abuse cases against priests.
It is de facto legal.
14
Never ever put anything on a resume that indicates age. Give them no ammunition. I never indicate my college graduation dates and haven't used high school info in 30 years.
I filed with the EEOC against a former employer for age discrimination when I was laid off and another younger manager got my job. She was the one that told me "If you get laid off it's probably your age." I was 58. The EEOC said I had grounds to sue but I already had another better job.
42
It makes no difference. If you leave out dates that is a red flag that indicates old age. Correction: it indicates experience, and experience and expertise is of no value any longer.
19
Art, no one puts graduation dates on their resumes unless they're very recent grads - or they're people of any age who have very recent graduate degrees or certifications. And no one who has a college degree or post-secondary professional training lists their high school.
Employers can find out what they need. It is best to be upfront and in hopes that someone will value the experience and maturity. If an employer asks discriminatory questions, then discrimination is the inevitable and why would one want to work for such an entity.
While living in North Georgia, small towns above Atlanta, discrimination was rampant. It was like living in the 50's. Therefore I moved to a college town below the metro Atlanta area. Culturally diverse. I feel a respect for all ethnic groups here.
I am in my late sixties and semi-retired, but have had no problems being hired, having many interviews and choices for acceptance.
3
Why aren't the names of these administrators being published? They were content to ruin the lives of their workers. When caught, no doubt OSU paid the settlement instead of them. So in other words, no real consequences to the people that chose to do this.
Sunlight is the best disinfectant. If their fellow administrators knew there was a reasonable chance they would be publicly associated with their actions I bet you'd see a big drop in such actions compared with the current situation in which they face essentially no consequences.
351
I has always been that way and will probably will be for a long time. The "Good Ole Boys" must be protected, at all costs. They are strong and just and the others are lazy and liars, except when you want to insist that they do something others would not approve.
9
It's a near religious belief among both public and private sector employers that you back your supervisor, no matter what the evidence says. If a supervisor has a very high turnover rate among the employees he or she supervises or seems to "discipline" all non-favorites to get rid of them, Human Resources will never conclude that something is wrong with that supervisor.
25
Sometimes, that IS the supervisor's job...with HR as "coach."
Excellent piece and outcome. I applaud these two women, obviously still very much 'with it' for sticking it out, and I congratulate them on their victory, which should help many 'younger olders' across various employment fields.
And I'm overall, generally, 'for it,' -- unless we start talking politics, especially the Presidential kind.
Unless we add some type of medical testing, with an emphasis cognitive and memory, and it is repeated annually for anyone in Congress or the Cabinet and of course, the Oval Office, we might need to discuss some upper age limits.
Just reading about the horrifying Joe Araphio (sp)? running for office at his advanced age, and clearly mentally compromised state ... gives me shudders.
And, our current gibberish-speaking disaster at the highest level of government should give us all some perspective.
(Like another reader below, I'm also 60-ish.)
27
@Tim: Most of those "entrenched" employees are working into their 70's b/c they need the money. Pensions have gone the way of the dodo, and the GOP would like to eliminate social security & medicare.
I'm not sure where you get the idea that there are "positions that are meant for people in their prime working years" - other than that you're very prejudiced! Can you explain to me at what age a person enters their "prime working years" and at what age that person exits their "prime working years"??
But hey, wait until YOU are deemed too old & too "entrenched" - and younger people ask why you're still taking up office space meant for those who are in their "prime working years"! You'll see how it feels then.
I hope you save all the money you'll ever need by age 45, which is when most companies decide their employees are TOO experienced and OVERPAID, and need to be replaced by younger, cheaper labor.
170
@jazz: I also applaud these two ladies for sticking up for themselves and for going through this drawn-out process (and unimaginable stress) to get their jobs back - and maybe a few administrators will wise up!
But I disagree about age-testing, because in my experience, mean SOB's are mean SOB's at *every* age. Example #1 is Trump, Example #2 is Arpaio - they were mean when they were young & are just as mean now that they're old.
As a counter-example: I have an excellent doctor (a specialist) who is now 80+ and still practicing - he has a pleasant personality, he's sharp as a tack, and his patients get the benefit of his 50+ years of experience. He was a good egg when I first started seeing him decades ago, and he's still a good egg. I pray he'll continue to be healthy & keep his practice going for as long as he wants!
113
It's honestly disgusting. Soon, older people will be encouraged to seek euthanasia. But wait-it's already started; insurance companies are offering it when denying benefits.
22
Where is the man or woman who can comfortably direct an older and wiser employee with grace and fairness? That's the one insuperable obstacle that we face as we age.
No law is going to ever fix the problem. No one really cares. You'll all see what I'm talking about. One day.
38
That's really not so difficult. I've had to supervise or direct people older than myself, and now that I'm older, often have to work with or be directed by people younger than me.
It's just not a big deal - unless we make it one. How about respecting our colleagues of all ages and positions as competent adults and treating them that way. I know I have valuable skills and experience that younger people do not have - and I respect the skills and fresh outlook of my younger colleagues.
The problem today is that 1) many workplaces are age- segregated, so that colleagues of different generations don't get to know each other; 2) the way many (not all) young people have been brought up with constant affirmations leads them to believe they "know everything" from day 1 and have nothing to learn from anyone more experienced; 3) today's dog-eat-dog workplace environments pit individual workers and generations against each other - making it easy for the top honchos to screw over us all.
12
I had three younger bosses after I turned 40 and none of them had a problem. Our interactions were work related and we each had skills and information to contribute. There was never any question that they were in charge.
8
Meanwhile, younger candidates entering the workforce are left in limbo while entrenched employees in their 70's continue to chug along, taking up positions that are meant for people in their prime working years.
Something fundamentally wrong with that. I'm 60 BTW.
3
Is this comment really that different from saying:
"[white] candidates entering the workforce are left in limbo while [black] employees continue to chug along, taking up positions that are meant for [white] people" ?
42
Full benefit retirement age is 66 and will be 67 for those born after 1960. What would you suggest those people do, say "the heck with my retirement income, I need to step aside so that younger people are not left in limbo". Being 60, apparently, doesn't exempt you from ageism.
167
When I worked at the University of Colorado Anschutz Medical Campus, many of my peers in the 50's with excellent reviews for years began getting poorer reviews or pressed to resign. They lost their ability to and earn their well-earned seniority pay and continued retirement benefits. Had we known each other, we could have banded together and sued collectively, but being demoralized, and needing money to survive, few of us felt this was an option. Individually it seemed impossible for me. Who would pay my rent while suing? Professional jobs eluded me and others. For 2+ years I sent out resumes to no avail, even when my previous job was posted with excellent networking, I was denied even an interview. With public records, anyone can find out your age without any cues to your age on your resume. With everyone urging us to work until we are closer to 70 years of age and with our excellent knowledge, skills and experience, who will keep us employed to do so with rampant age discrimination, especially us women?
58
The difference between their cases and so many other similar, albeit unsuccessful, discrimination claims is the "smoking gun" email. Absent similar stupidity or mistake on the employer's part, discrimination cases tend to fizzle out.
253
Agreed sloreader, especially age discrimination. A lawyer told me it is the hardest to prove whereas disability discrimination is the easiest to prove.
Lawyers will take a disability case in an instant.
5
Which is why the old advice to try to get any and all communications with your supervisor(s) in writing. Always email, always back up your emails and/or print out the relevant ones. I am extremely careful to save laudatory emails from my bosses or anyone else who can attest to my good work - so that if somehow they try to force me out claiming performance issues, that won't fly. --- Note that Skype conversations can also be saved. In my workplace, a lot of communication goes on by Skype, which I consider somewhat unprofessional, but I'm not dumb enough to let IMs get lost in the ether. Save everything!
6
In my experience, there's always a "smoking gun" in some form. Employers and supervisors who practice this sort of discrimination tend to express it openly and often, because they feel they're "right" - and they know that often, they'll suffer no ill consequences.
This is why I advise people to save every email, memo or notice that even hints at the issue and note every incident and comment. Also note who else is present when such comments are made. Whenever possible, make the witnesses your allies! A pattern of such comments and behavior is definitely part of the evidence.
Also a good idea to keep a hidden recording device handy.
7
Laws forbidding discrimination on the grounds of age often don't include provisions for employers to report or be inspected. It's up to wronged employees/job candidates to bring legal action. If you can afford to sue, good luck. Most unemployed people cannot.
181
Especially if, as noted above, they had to sign an agreement not to sue in order to get their severance!
9
Sadly true. If this country was serious about combating age discrimination, it wouldn't grant huge numbers of H1-B visas. And it would make sure that--for the numbers granted--companies had to show proof that a certain percentage of their jobs were held by people over age 50.
13
Exactly. Where is the EEOC? They should do regular audits -- requiring companies to show the gender and age of its employees. If it is not diverse,companies should face legal action. Why is it up to the wronged party to take action?
7
All true. I am in my sixties. I was harassed and marginalized, after many years in a well-paid, professional position, then finally fired 3 1/2 years ago. Despite excellent credentials and long experience, as well as a successful track record, I did not find a new position until a few months ago, and then only through friends. I applied for literally hundreds of jobs, positions I would surely have been offered when I was younger. I did not even get an interview, and honest recruiters admitted that employers had inquired or commented, illegally, about my age,
During this period, I was mostly self-employed, and assisted via my work a number of older woman who had had similar experiences. All were educated, experienced and skilled. Layoffs and restructuring are carefully crafted by outside counsel and company attorneys to skirt age discrimination laws - yet when the smoke clears, as if by magic the average age of company employees has dropped by 15 years.
People are injured by illegal discrimination. Our long-term retirement plan has been upended by my job loss. The emotional and financial effects are long lasting. The worst is the feeling of helplessness and futility: we are hardworking, successful people who have negotiated past obstacles. Suddenly we learn that, for an irrational, illegal reason - age - we can never work again. It’s horrifying, maddening, impossible to process.
These illegal practices, by both public and private employers, must end.
431
"when the smoke clears, as if by magic the average age of company employees has dropped by 15 years. " - I wonder if stats like this could actually be used in a lawsuit - does anyone know if this has been tried? Can a company be forced to keep and/or turn over such data in a lawsuit? In many workplaces, it would be extremely interesting to chart "average age of employees." Given that the average age of the population is increasing, in any workplace where the average age of employees hasn't tracked with those numbers, discrimination would be suspected.
13
Where I worked, the boss used outside counsel to show that, because he was keeping one woman aged 56, it was OK to fire two others who were a couple of years older. "See, I'm not prejudiced!" What a crock. Happily, he himself was fired the next year for incompetence.
17
Here's what I advise friends of all ages in today's workforce, in which all employees are disposable - especially women over age 50:
- Work hard, strive for excellence, and produce results - but only go the extra mile and put in extra hours when it's urgently needed - and when it gives you an opportunity to shine. Otherwise, your extra efforts are just taken for granted.
- Make sure you tout your accomplishments at all times. Bring a list of your achievements to performance reviews. Be specific and use stats.
- Always look out for YOUR interests. Keep your resume up to date, constantly network within your workplace and in your field, and keep an eye out for new opportunities.
- The people who are good at self-promotion and networking are the ones who get ahead - if you're doing an excellent job and keeping your head down, you'll be overlooked while others take credit for your work.
- Protect yourself: If you start to experience ANY signs of discrimination or poor treatment at work, such as an unjustly poor review after years of excellent reviews, derogatory comments, downgraded working conditions, etc., start keeping a journal noting the incidents with dates & details, and keep copies of any pertinent emails & memos. Carry a hidden recording device into meetings and performance reviews.
- If you're age 50+, befriend your age 50+ peers and support each other. Legal action as a group is more effective.
341
Great advice for employees of any age. The hard lesson I learned is that self-promotion and showcasing one's accomplishments are critical to success. Hard work with results is simply not enough.
16
This is all great advice, thank you.
6
"... if you're doing an excellent job and keeping your head down, you'll be overlooked while others take credit for your work."
Your advice is completely on-target, and the passage above speaks the truth about my situation in particular. As for performance reviews: not every workplace has them. My employer, which pretends to be progressive, doesn't have performance reviews, and never has. I haven't had a raise in ten years.
6
Brava! A happy ending at least for these two. I admire them and congratulate them on fighting the good fight. It's odd to me that the article doesn't even mention that a main motivation in age discrimination is simply money. I'm in my mid-fifties and slowly came to understand that when the ad says they want someone with "3 to 5 years' experience" or even "1 to 3 years' experience," not only does it mean they will actually happily hire a recent college grad, it certainly does not mean if you have 10, 15, or more years' experience, that's BETTER. They just want to pay less. That's what all the talk of making room for "young bucks" comes to. (That, and stupidity. Never underestimate the role of stupidity in poor management decisions of this type.)
262
My mom was 58 when she was fired from the insurance company where she was an agent. She was the first woman to be hired in this particular office. This was in 1983. She loved her job and was very well liked by her clients. She charged age and sex discrimination and started the long legal process to right the wrongs that had been done to her. That meant to keep writing the checks for her lawyer even though money was tight. In the end, there was a settlement, but not because of HER lawyer's competence or incompetence (also a woman) but because the insurance company's lawyers believed her. I wrote letter after
letter to groups that should have stepped up to help her but nobody did. That was a time in our history when women were starting to stand up in greater numbers and I thought we should have had some support, but we did not. She ultimately prevailed, but she never forgot what it felt like to be fired - for being too good at her job and having trusted clients that the men agents wanted for themselves. Even toward the end of her life, she would recount that hurt in conversations with her caregiver.
278
Yes, the psychological ramifications can't be overlooked. It happened to my husband, at a company he had given many, many years of his life to (he was one of those oddballs in this day and age; he had never worked anywhere else, spent his entire career, to that point, at one company). He is fine now, but the scars are lifelong; it was a hellish period in our lives, after he was laid off, despite a "generous" severance. For those in worse economic circumstances, it's a terrible trauma lose one's job unfairly.
71
I'm sure the insurance company didn't want to pay her senior salary either (even though it was likely lower than the salaries of the senior male staffers).
I'm so sorry your mom had to go through this, and good on her for fighting it. I'm sure your support really, really helped.
4
I worked in a nonprofit that had a board of directors who were filled up to their eyeballs in PC rhetoric, yet were age discriminators and anti-women. They loved talking about 'new ideas' and 'younger people' as if the 2 were identical. Yet it was us older staff who brainstormed and implemented all of the major changes in our programs and services. One guy whose entire career had been based on claiming discrimination against Hispanics insisted that we had too many white women who were congenitally incapable of working on Hispanic issues. It didn't matter to him that our constituents were only 3 percent Hispanic. Some of the worst employers are the ones who think they are being 'progressive' and can't see their own biases and prejudices.
152
If our country were really serious about age discrimination, it would not permit access of personal information on the internet. A five minute search online easily reveals age. If this information were not available, potential employers would at least be forced to consider all candidates, not just young ones, as they could not actively discriminate early in the process. This would give workers over 50 at least a chance to present themselves. Also, age should be considered part of diversity. Older workers have experience. Perhaps their computer literacy could be improved but that is easy to learn. Experience, not so much.
104
The internet is not required. I always knew the age of the applicant by date of graduation from high achool/college. There are some child geniuses but most of us are 18 or so when we graduate from high school.
6
I wonder if this situation could be improved by lawyers demanding - and judges permitting - access to the computer search histories on the HR hiring staff computers - to prove exactly what online info the company sought about the applicant while making the hiring decision.
9
It’s fairly trivial to infer a job candidate’s age with one glance at their resume. Just subtract the current year from the year in which he or she earned their bachelor’s degree and add 21.
2
Labor unions often require anti-discrimination clauses in their contracts. Once the clause is part of the contract, the union must help enforce it. Labor unions play an important civil rights role. In fact, the unions that represent college professional staff are especially sensitive to all kinds of discrimination issues.
Join a union. Be active. Raise these issues at union meetings and during contract negotiations. Fight against the attacks on unions. Unions are being attacked because they level the playing field and are what John Kenneth Galbraith called "the countervailing force."
210
That may work if you are in a state where unions have status. However, many states are right-to-work, meaning you can indeed belong to a union, but it has no legal status for negotiating. Unfortunately, this is a trend across the country. Unions are dying out, and it will take more awful treatment of employees to begin to bring them back.
7
I have found myself preferring to work with lawyers and doctors who are older than I am, and as I have gotten older, I have become increasingly willing to consider age positively in my choices of service professionals, figuring that they are less likely to stereotype me as an older person if they are similar in age and know therefore that disparaging attitudes toward older people are foolish. It is a small way to make sure that older professionals' skills are respected and their skills used, even if not all of us are able to influence corporate hiring practices in a non-discriminatory direction, as individuals.
75
I once suffered persecution by an boss (who was a triple threat - stupid, incompetent, and a rotten human being). It was the worst time of my life. I and the the other employee quit (the third was almost 65 and so hid in her office till she reach retirement). Now I work where there is a strong union. And I and others have protection from sadistic bosses. Those of you who are not part of a union, you do not know what you are missing.
147
Not every field has a union - as a scientist, I have to compete for jobs not only against US applicants, but from applicants all around the world.
5
It's true. Employees (including professionals) who do not belong to a union do not know what they are missing. Until it's too late.
4
I have belonged to two unions. Paid dues and now have a wonderful retirement. I had a labor disagreement with management, it went to arbitration, and management lost. Had it not been for union representation I probably would have been wrongly fired with no recourse.
The decline of unions is just another way people are voting against their own self interest.
Dues paid for legal representation.
I was on the negotiation committee. We got our members a fair wage, a decent pension and job security. My colleagues are productive workers with many years experience.
8
Age discrimination is one of the last allowable forms of discrimination in the workplace. Sure it's technically illegal(wink wink) but everyone knows no one will do anything about it and it's tough to prove. In the case cited in the article there was the smoking gun of an e-mail; in most cases that sort of physical evidence just doesn't exist.
We all know this is happening. Companies here in VT routinely lay off older workers. Any of us who have been out of work and job hunting over a certain age know how hard it is to find work despite our years of experience. We've watched much younger people obtain the jobs that we were more than qualified for. It's not even that we expect to be paid more either.
I interviewed for positions in state government and finally got a temporary job with no benefits. The regular positions went to workers several decades younger than I. When I went to the "meet and greet" for new hires with the commissioner he openly stated how wonderful it was to see all of these new young people. He continued on to state that young people know that one has to be technologically astute and not just know the content area of their jobs. Can you imagine a director gloating over all of the straight or white people they had just hired?
I find it doubly ironic as not only are people living longer but are urged to delay their retirement in order to have more income for their old age. It's kind of tough to do that if one gets pushed out the door at a certain age.
213
My son worked for a company that had been passed around as a result of acquisitions and had finally become a division of a Chinese firm, which decided to eliminate the entire division. He had been something of a star, very hard working, articulate, and intelligent, but since then, he, in his 50s, has had to patch and piece together a variety of things. He is relentlessly upbeat, but it does not look good from here. His son is starting college this year, too, and his daughter will start next year. Not good timing.
6
As an alumnus, I find recent news out of Ohio State particularly distressing. During this time of regressive leadership across our nation, the role of large and comprehensive universities, like The Ohio State University, in upholding and promoting values and ideals like equal opportunity, social justice, the truth, truth-seeking and critical thinking is especially important, even critical.
Considering the often extreme conservatism in the state of Ohio, I imagine Michael Drake, M.D., the current leader at Ohio State, has his hands full but I have full faith and confidence in him and many of his colleagues at the university. I expect a lot of positive news forthcoming in the months and years to come.
16
To push back a little against the grain of this article, some workplaces offer a lot of privileges based on seniority. In those cases, it really is important for management to balance the assignment of less pleasant tasks among the entire workforce. A job site where less experienced workers are locked out of desirable positions will have trouble attracting and keeping new people.
13
John, the moved the older people into a big open room and the younger ones got the offices. c'mon.
47
Really, John? The older workers were privileged with their fancy individual “work spaces,” and “benefits,” and “class assignments,” over the younger workers? I guess they were just oblivious to the reality that they should know enough to wander away like a herd of hippos and make room for the smart new workers to start their 45 year careers.
9
I don't understand the need for your "push back." This article is not saying that pleasant tasks and plum assignments should be reserved exclusively for older, more senior workers. It is saying, as you are, that they should be *balanced* between age/experience groups.
And the situation described in this article is way more common in the American workplace than the situation you are describing.
6
Very proud of these women—I am 59 and have applied to over 2,000 jobs on Linkedin—I have never been called back even with 25 years of experience at a major corporation. I love that they went back to work, and pushed to get the policy changed. But hang in their oldies, there are just not enough X’ers and millennials to fill all the open position coming in the next 10-15 years—soon lots of us will be in the white collar gig economy and companies will be begging us to work more hours!
78
You're right. But the additional sad fact is that the millenials are so astoundingly incompetent as workers. Their inability to speak (text, yes, though incoherently, but speak, no!) leads to their belief that computers can perform better than humans. An excellent example of this is Elon Musk's wasting hundreds of millions of dollars by spending on robots that proved incapable of doing work that is easily performed by humans on Tesla assembly lines. You'll also see this in talking to any "customer service" employee seeking to "delight" you by repetitively reading from her script, saying the same thing over and over without responding meaningfully to what you're saying.
Despite vast investments in computer technology, our economy has shown virtually no gains in productivity in the last 15 years -- a perfect corrolation with the millenials' journeys from mommy's basement into the work force.
10
Maybe, but we'll still be without the vital benefits and job security that used to be a standard part of the employer-employee contract. At 52 I was pushed out of a job I loved and performed very well, and the years since then have been extremely challenging for me. An enormous chunk of my retirement savings were promptly funneled into the bottomless maws of rapacious health-insurance companies, as I came closer than I like to admit to losing my apartment while caring for my dying mother. Several months after her death I was lucky enough to be hired, even if at a salary well below my previous one, which spared me from simultaneously experiencing grief AND homelessness, which are not a great combo. So for the _moment_ I'm OK. But what in the world is going to happen to me in a few years when the cancer with which I've just been diagnosed makes me too ill to work? Riddle me that, my optimistic friend.
7
I fear that this case will only make administrators become more careful in the means they use to force out expensive senior members of their faculties.
54
I am 67 and in my career I experienced what might be called age discrimination, but I would be reluctant to call it that. It is only discrimination if age is used as a factor in hiring, firing, promoting and other personnel decisions.
My experience is that older employees are different in their work habits and productivity than younger employees. But work habits and productivity are legitimate factors in making a decision about an employee. So is it age discrimination or just standard management to, for instance, promote the more productive worker who happens to also be the younger one?
When I entered the work force, in a high tech job, I was happy to work 50, 60 hour weeks. Twenty years later the ardor had died down and I was more interested in working 40 hours and doing other things outside of work. My salary was also three-times higher after 20+ years than it was when I started. As a manager, which would you rather hire - the youngster or the older version? I don't personally think of that as age discrimination, just as practical business management.
BTW, at age 64 I was the recipient of one of those business decisions and found myself retired. I never considered it discrimination, just business.
15
@Scott Werden: Don't you think there's something wrong with expecting 50-60-hour work weeks?
26
Evidently, Mr Werden you admit that your years of experience have no value. That's not how it was in my work. My years of experience and knowledge accumulation made me much more valuable than i was when I entered employment. I guess it always depends on the nature of your work. My employer can't "replace" me with a younger person, just as I did not "replace" an older employee when I was young. At the beginning I had attributes that were valuable just because I was young. 40 years later I developed knowledge, skills and human relationship skills that only come with years of experience. Furthermore, we all age differently.
20
I found that the more experience I gained, the more productive I could be as I could spend time doing rather than learning.
Working knowledge provided me with the ability to make sound judgments that result in efficiencies and solutions instead of messes requiring hours of labor hours to clean up, make quicker decisions as I had the context and knowledge of past experience rather than the need to research and ask senior people questions, implement best practices that improved efficiency.
And yes, by applying advanced technology that I gained from both continuing education and building upon my existing knowledge due to the ability to *apply* knowledge. Also, it wasn't just the technology skills; it was the ability to use systems thinking to implement the higher concepts from acquired wisdom including understanding the systems and structures of organizational systems, inputs to production, etc.
Those are just some examples. I can go on and on about how experience leads one to be more productive. Not only individually, but across the organization. A person with wisdom will create the efficiencies that all the inexperienced employees benefit from.
18
Time for honesty.
Any H.R. manager will tell you - never mess with members of “protected classes.” No matter what they do - or don’t do - how bad an employee they are - don’t discipline protected class members.
It doesn’t matter how little they contribute or how overcompensated they are for what they don’t do.
The EEOC has to justify its budgets, and the ADA’s attorneys fees provisions mean you might pay $500,000 in legal fees if a jury says you owe $1.
And by the way, only plaintiffs get fees, if the employer pays $500,000 and wins the case - that’s $500,000 gone.
So if a member of a “protected class” old sleeps through meetings, constantly interferes with the company’s goals, is late to every event, and hasn’t met a deadline since 2006 - don’t discipline them. Your attorneys won’t let you explain publicly why you disciplined them so the opposing counsel and the press will make you look as evil as possible, and it’ll cost you hundreds of thousands in legal fees - even when your exonerated at trial.
Sorry - that’s just the way it is.
12
This is not honesty. It sounds more like a depressed and cynical worldview meant to protect the ruling class from anyone who might challenge it.
20
I am not believing you.
3
What is described in this article is unacceptable age discrimination.
I am a CEO of a company that employs many older employees. In my experience, the valuable experience and wisdom that comes with age does not always trump the need for fast-paced productive work that not all older people are interested in or are capable of. We receive resumes from older individuals who have excellent clinical skills but, who are not interested in the level of productivity that some entry level, human service jobs require. And when we hire this age cohort, we often find that they are unable to maintain the speed required of high caseloads. While we would love for all of our staff to have the experience and wisdom of an older employee we simply do not have the resources to split caseloads and hire more staff to accommodate a lower productivity. (And no one, including this CEO, is making a large salary.)
12
Lisa, your mention of clinical skills makes me think your company is involved in heath care. Speed, high caseloads, high producivity, fast-paced, inexperienced young employees -- sounds like a breeding ground for bad health care decisions and avoidable mistakes.
I wish I knew the name of your company, so I could make sure to avoid it. I really do NOT want young overworked and inexperienced people making high-speed decisions about my life.
27
Come on, I am extremely productive despite my 61 years (my company has already asked me to continue working beyond 65). This talk that older workers are not productive is hogwash.
12
The most surprising thing to me about age discrimination is how the "discriminators" apparently don't stop to think how they will be on the receiving end some day...!
85
This happens. I never had trouble finding work with my skill set until I started getting gray hair many years ago. I had friends and even colleagues who suggested that I should color my hair in an effort not to look my age, but ultimately I chose to keep my gray (after all, I DID earn it). It's been a struggle for some 15 years now: my earnings potential has diminished, my prospects for retirement are reduced, even the possibility of retirement is reduced - all this in spite of doubling my skill set in the past 20 years.
I'm all for these types of lawsuits. In fact, I would hope that eventually damages could be rewarded again. Only if those who perpetrate discrimination have to pay for their behavior (either financially or through some form of incarceration) will these practices finally end.
56
I’ve got mixed feelings on this issue. I’m 63, and will be the first to admit that some of my skills and ways of doing things are outdated.
- Raiser’s Edge was the hot fundraising software for nonprofits throughout much of my career. I’m an expert at it, but organizations are now switching over to Salesforce.
- I thought Microsoft Word was still king, until my last couple of consulting jobs, where they do everything in Google Docs.
- I used to be the “go to” tech person 25 years ago, and now technology has zoomed way past my skill set.
- Reports use different language and industry-specific jargon than I’ve used in my career.
Sure, I could relearn all this stuff, but that sounds exhausting. As do the 60 hours a week I used to put in.
But the biggest difference between me and a younger workforce is that they are still excited and passionate! At this point, I pretty much know that the 200 page study/report I just spent 4 months putting together is going to end up propping up the fishtank on the windowsill, never having been read. :)
43
Using Google Docs has nothing to do with ability. It's about how much power we think Google should be able to acquire over our personal and professional lives. I'm sticking with Word because everything I write down isn't going to be fed through algorithms that will be used later to try to sell me things I'm not shopping for.
Look at the world young people are shoving down our throats now. I can't check a map on my phone without Google trying to persuade me to stop for junk food on the way. Why does junk food have to be a part of that? And it's creepy to use a map that knows which McDonalss I could be eating at right now.
This is what young people are so passionate and productive about. Commercializing the world on a scale never seen before in history.
33
I was a member of the in-house legal department of a large financial institution. Our 5 member team of lawyers, all women, all over 50, was experienced, efficient, flexible and handled the work of what 10 years ago was 10 such lawyers. We took on new workloads virtually every month. To my knowledge, none of the team had received any increase in salary or bonus since 2008.
Once we turned the corner of the financial crisis in 2012, and the company began posting profits again, the message from our manager changed. Team meetings always concluded with a flat statement that "you are never going to make any more money here than you do now, period. If you have other opportunities, you should probably take them". She began to steadfastly assign increased responsibilities, demand ridiculous turn around times, create "emergencies" during the team member's vacations and travel commitments and then criticize lack of responsiveness. By a thousand and one manufactured slights, insults and pressures, the campaign to get one or all of us to quit or retire was obvious.
89
This was precisely the behavior of the ESL director at a program where I worked for almost 20 years. Within 5 years he turned over the original faculty (with similar longevity) and hired numerous junior instructors, severely limiting access to benefits like health insurance and retirement contributions. This happened at the same time period referenced in the article. Coincidence?
9
Age discrimination in employment is yet another reason to lower the age for Medicare eligibility. Through no fault of our own, humans get older and are tossed aside as has beens, just as our healthcare needs may be increasing. It makes sense to simultaneously toss out a true lifeline to those people to help keep them healthy enough to find other work.
53
The elephant in the room with regard to age discrimination is health care. While that may not have been a major motivation for some mid-level administrator at a large public university, it is a major concern at smaller, for-profit companies.
Insurance premiums are higher for older employees (and their spouses if they are married), and the likelihood of an expensive illness is higher. Granted, younger employees can be expensive too (a new baby in the NICU for example), but the odds are higher for those of us 50+ to need things like heart surgery or chemo. If an employer is "self-insured," meaning they pay the insurance company for administrative services but claims are paid from the company's own money, the risk is even greater.
It is past time to expand Medicare eligibility starting at age 50. That won't stop discrimination on the perception that older people are slower or techno-phobic, but it would help in the case of employers who justifiably fear huge health care costs.
22