Since I do not follow tennis, I would not have recognize d that the women listed on the Wimbledon board were indeed the same athlete when they were identified by their husband's name. To me that is a big problem for the public....I don't want to keep track of name changes, especially when a female athlete's first name initials are changed to her husband's as well. It just makes sense to use the name the athlete is known by in her sport.
2
Note that in today's New York Times there are multiple references to Mrs. May, the UK Prime Minister. So the New York Times follows this convention as well.
9
I long for the day when this makes the top 100 things going on in the world that I'm worried about. I assume this is included to lighten our day, in contrast to the rest of the news.
5
Tradition is great but Wimbledon needs to move along with the times. Women, like men, establish a professional identity that is independent of their relationship status. No one calls Meryl Streep Mrs. Gummer.
Serena William is Serena Williams. Is she chooses to use her married name off the court that is her choice.
All of the women playing pro tennis have earned their names on the court. Consider it branding.
14
Dear Surfer:
And no one refers to Serena Williams as Mrs. Ohanian. Pray tell, your point?
DD
Manhattan
Rules should change and keep it simple. "Mr" for men and "Ms" for women and DO NOT replace a women's first name with her husbands - we do not become mere shadows after we marry.
12
I lived in Singapore for several years, and a common courtesy, adopted from the Brits, was to ask a new acquaintance, “And how would you like to be addressed?”
This took a little getting used to, but it gave the respondent the opportunity to frame the relationship from the outset: “Oh, please just call me John”, or “I prefer Mr Smith, if you don’t mind”.
There are always too many words in these exchanges, but I think it’s worth the effort. This courtesy also allows people to clarify nicknames vs given names (Chris vs Christopher) or the particular PhD to ask to be referred to as “Dr”, a European convention not used in the US. It also stands in stark contrast to American retirement homes, where octogenarian men are almost universally referred to as “Sweetie”.
Women now comprise over half the populations of our gradute schools and are often marrying later in life after having established professional reputations. And of course professional women athletes have been around for generations. I think it’s passed the time when we should have been asking all of them, “And how would you like to be addressed?”
6
Why, oh why must there be anything other than the first and last name people use to identify themselves to the world? And why is a woman's marital status more noteworthy than a man's? I remember when married women were identified by their husband's first name as well as their last name, i.e. Susan Smith became Mrs. John Jones. The total obliteration of a woman's "maiden" name is fading into a distant past. Now it's a matter of choice..... but then, choice of any kind for a woman is now embattled in more than just tennis.
10
A bigger story is the discrimination in pay. At the US open the men and women get the same prize money even though the men play more sets and the men's games bring in much more advertising revenue per set. The change was instituted several years ago to kowtow to the PC police
3
Please cite references to "the men's games bring in much more advertising revenue per set."
Also, as I stated in another post, players aren't paid by the number of points they earn. They are paid to WIN. By your logic, the winner of a men's match that went to tie-breaks in each of five sets should earn more than players who win in three in shut-outs.
7
Until this week but before this article, I did not know Mrs was not acceptable and sexist.
Maybe because the US is so first name basis now instead of formal. I can't remember the last time I was called Mr. McNeely. I am down south, so I get Sir a lot, which is no problem.
It's always been Ms was standard for women who were divorced, Mrs for married women who took thier husband's name and Miss for women had not been married. Seems easy and uncomplicated to me.
Most women I interact with are happy to tell you they are married. If not, they get divorced.
My current wife is Mrs McNeely my ex is Ms. McNeely and the teachers at school know the difference.
As far as lady or ladies, it's a polite term for women, so why not? I think of several terms that are not.
Don't make an issue of something that is not.
5
It's not your choice. It's ours. You're several generations behind the times.
2
I think you missed the major points of the article:
1. Women when they marry at the All England Club are addressed as "Mrs" but no designation is given to men who marry.
2. Women who are married and win the Tournament do not get their name on the trophy but "Mrs" and the name of their husband.
3. Being married is not the issue but being allowed to take credit for your own accomplishments.
Full stop as the Brits like to say!
7
Mr McNeely isn’t generations behind a darn thing.
My parents raised me to be polite also. Mr. and Mrs. to my elders and to those who had not given me permission to address them by their first name. It has nothing to do with professionalism or accomplishments or gender. It’s good manners and respect for others which I and apparently the good Mr McNeely still give deference too.
And it’s not your choice either. It’s a societal choice.
2
So if Martina Navratilova had married Judy Nelson would some of her Wimbledon wins be listed as Mrs. J. Nelson? The whole Mrs. thing just has to change. It’s silly.
9
What does it mean to "be a lady"? I think for most of world history, "to be a lady" means to be dis-empowered and allow others to think for you, make choices for you, and define who you are. The feminine has largely, and I think wrongly, been defined by that which is submissive and as one teacher once noted, "biddable". Serena Williams is certainly a trailblazer in a modern and more enlightened presentation of what it means to be a lady. I applaud women tennis players for advocating for themselves and earning the same purses as men during tournaments. Women tennis players should be the ones dictating to the Wimbledon officials how they want or don't want their marital status noted, not the other way around. The tournament is nothing without these women tennis players, but could still go on without these woefully hidebound Wimbledon officials.
11
Jeeeez! Can everybody just catch up? Now you know why so many women, who marry choose not to share a name with their husbands. Kids should have hyphenated names, to reflect both parents. Seems like handmaiden-ship isn't all that far from the realm of possibility, under the auspices of so-called conservatism.
3
There will always be an England. Sigh.
3
This practice is absolutely backwards and disgusting, and has no value except to diminish women in a passive-aggressive, seemingly polite way. (How very British.) Female viewers and players should both boycott Wimbledon until they apologize and correct the practice.
3
She's "Ms." and not "Mrs." She does not have her husband's last name. So, she is not "Mrs." Perhaps Kate Middleton and Meghan Markle can help us out here and ask the stodgy, 18th Century All-England Club to move ahead. That is just insulting to all women.
7
Writing the last name of a woman only, preceded by ‘miss’ or ‘mrs’ says that a woman is defined by who she belongs to instead of being her own individual like ‘R. Federer’.
Does she still belong to her father? Or is she now the property of her husband? Miss Goolegong was the daughter of the Goolegong family. Now she is Mrs. Cawley, wife to Mr. Cawley.
7
The MRA trolls whining about the women getting paid equally while playing 3 sets are hilariously ridiculous.
People should be addressed by the name they choose. Serena Williams is S.Williams. Her marital status is irrelevant.
6
The UK has just banned "up-skirting"—taking photos up women's skirts. Perhaps Wimbledon's managers should join their government in abolishing these antiquated rules and regulations.
As a boy growing up in the 80s, I learned that the word "lady" is outdated and sexist. I thought we got rid of "Mrs." thirty years ago. It's amazing that these institutions refuse to modernize.
The "LPGA" has got to change too -- WPGA, or, better yet, just make it PGA and make the men's tour MPGA.
4
What is this, 1958?
5
All men are Mr. Ergo, all women should be Ms. These archaic titles have to go.
4
This is an abomination! It is a complete affront to all women everywhere, and Wimbledon, if not all of tennis, should downright ashamed! Boycott Wimbledon!!!!
1
As Ms. Crouse has written elsewhere, it was less than a year ago that Serena Williams - of whom this 66-year old sports fan is in absolute awe - delivered a baby via C-Section, and suffered blood clots that put her life at risk.
Yesterday, she dominated - albeit a lesser opponent - in a way that few do. She will never again have that pre-pregnancy - read, slimmer - physique. and although here serve went from 110 mph two years ago to a "disappointing" 106 this year, who's better and more powerful than she?
Her thighs are larger, there's a bit of a belly - tough to tone the abs after a C-Section, I've been told - and she appears to have the ability to nurse half the crowd.
I remember my mother telling me of her growing from a B- to an F-cup bra after my birth...around the time Lucy Ricardo couldn't me described as "pregnant."
I'm amazed that Ms. Williams can walk with an erect spine, much less winning her second round match rather easily. I've seen great athletes in my time - Martina and Bo Jackson, to name but two - but her powers are ridiculous.
Oh, and as she was described by more than one commentator on ESPN as something like "not that fit," the general "you" focuses on her being called Mrs. Williams.
That's pretty funny.
3
We need more respect for convention. Women are different and should be treated differently. It is important to demarcate those who have been claimed by other men, with the indicator Mrs., to avoid disputes over ownership of the female. It has always made sense and continues to do so; I don't want to be involved with another man's vessel.
4
I am a HUGE fan of Serena. She is my hero. I have been watching her since 2002. I think she is handling the media pressure so well. Why do we care about her drug test frequency or if she was called MRS? I think even if she is taking medication - which I'm sure she has to because of her blood condition, lets be honest, does it matter? As it is we can see she is struggling to move around on the Court yet she is WINNING ! Shouldn't we celebrate that? Her return is too quick and she could have rested a bit more before starting again, but she WANTS to be a winner. She needs to loose some wait so she can move around faster. She needs to change her clothing to short sleeve so she can breath more.
I hope she wins the wimbledon... if she doesn't she has already WON in my eyes.
Thank you SERENA ! God speed !
2
This article omits some major contextual information. Wimbledon is applying traditional etiquette: formally, married women are to be addressed as Mrs. [husband first name] [husband last name]. My grandmother still expects to be addressed that way. That's totally horrifying to me and I feel it is anachronistic and outdated. I didn't take my husband's name and am rarely called anything other than Ms. But I think the article does some disservice to readers by not noting this history: this issue is not exclusive to Wimbledon, and the only reason the US has largely abandoned this form of address is because women objected and demanded change.
9
According to a Pew Research Poll, compared to young men, many more young women believe that having a successful marriage is one of the most important things in their lives. The number responding yes to that question was 30% higher for women than men. Obviously, there is no need to use different gender labels for women at Wimbledon. But the distinction in the titles is consistent with the genders' value systems.
1
Instead of having to choose from "Ms., Mrs. or Miss" if a form I fill in requires a title I go by "Mr." although I am female. Why do we need titles at all, unless it's for a professional rank?
5
The Times continues to play right into the hands of the far right with articles like these. Unimportant PC issues instead of real world issues. Stoking the opposition is a bad strategy. Keep doing it and it will be 8 years instead of 4.
17
There is no way in the world this is as big of an issue as this article is making it out to be. They tried to get a controversial answer out of Serena about the married title thing, and she clearly was thinking, "Wow, that's really random." And I'm pretty sure she'd be Mrs. Ohanian rather than Mrs. Williams. So no, her husband isn't getting credit. The NYT can do better than this.
12
MeToo needs to come down hard on Wimbledon. My marital status is nobody business unless I want it to be. Mr. doesn't tell, and I shouldn't have to tell either if I don't want to.
10
I want the entire world to know I am married. I wear a wedding ring. Why would you possibly not want someone to be confused as to your marital status?
Per the article, Wimbledon gathers marital status from the Women's Tennis Association. It seems that if a player wanted their marital status to be unknown, it is easy enough to not release that information.
1
Interesting tidbit. In contemporary society, so many people have different types of relationships or commitments (or none at all). Perhaps it's archaic to identify women according to their marital status, while men are addresses as "Mr." whether they are married, are not married or have ever been married. Wimbledon has many great traditions, but this one might need to be tweaked.
7
I didn't see this anywhere else in the comments, so I'll say it: Many other tournaments have the same tradition. It's just that it is said in another language. I.E. Madame vs. Madmoizelle, or Frau vs. Frauline.
This is the second article I've read on the topic and, in both, it seems as thought the players consider it fairly benign. I'm sure they will address this when other, more important equality issues are fully dealt with in the sport.
Or perhaps we need another honorific to better describe a married woman who has chosen to retain her maiden sir name... That is if they should even be used at all. I fully support the idea of just using a players sir name when calling the score, game or match.
10
Honestly, I can't even stand that they still use "Mrs." at my kids' school. It sound so outdated! And for the single teachers, who wants to be called "Miss" at 35, 45, 55?
I'm 44 and ever since my first job, all business correspondence I've ever seen - at any company - has been addressed to "Ms." That's over 20 years at least that the nonsense of referencing women's marital status has been rejected.
20
In connection with marriage, women:
1. Wear valuable engagement rings.
2. Wear gowns that often cost thousands of dollars.
3. Post announcements and make other marriage postings on social media far more often than men
4. As young girls, frequently fantasize about marriage. Boys just don't.
5. Are much less likely to cheat compared with men..
In ways that are pretty much pervasive, marriage is more important to women than to men. Wimbledon is acknowledging a reality and its so-called discrimination reflects real life. If men and women cared the same amount about marriage, then the distinction between the genders by title would be entirely improper. But as is, it reflects reality.
5
Interesting summary of the behavior of all women. My husband is very happy to be married.
1) neither of us wore valuable engagement rings.
2) we both wore clean already owned tennis outfits. (we married unceremoniously on a tennis court just prior to playing mixed double;).
3) We did not announce our marriage on social media.
4) Neither of us plan on cheating (to much work and awfully expensive).
The tradition of referring to a woman by her husbands name is not because marriage is more important to women, but rather a throw back to a time when women were seen as chattel. Let's dispose of this "tradition".
43
michjas, I find your whole post off base, but to one particular point, I can say this:
I have taught preschool and elementary for 23 years.
Boys do indeed think about/fantasize about marriage as much as girls in their early childhood. (They play wedding and talk about who they're going to marry just as girls do.) Here's the difference: SOCIETY proceeds to squelch that habit/tendency in boys and encourage/feed it in girls. Girls are taught that their worth is tied to their looks and their ability get married and have kids. Boys are taught to focus on their academic, athletic and ultimately financial accomplishments.
17
To everyone who says disclosing marital status of women and not men in this tournament is a non-starter, I say hooey. The marital status of a woman holds no bearing on their level of play, so the marital title should not be affixed to them, particularly since it's not equally applied to men. Language is perception, and this give the perception that women's achievements are not their own, but somehow attributed to their spouse, thus diluting their accomplishments.
And for those who say men should be paid more for five sets to women's three, I also say hooey. Tennis players are not paid for the number of points they score in a match, they are paid to WIN. By that logic, the winners of matches with more points would earn more prize money for having closer matches, i.e. a 7-6, 6-7, 7-6, 6-7, 6-7 should be paid more than a 6-0, 6-0, 6-0 match. But that's not how tennis works. Besides, WTA and other organizations have asked for equal match time and have been denied by the tournament directors, so you can't penalize them for that. And popularity of a match is dictated by personality as opposed to gender. A Serena or Venus Williams match will pack a stadium and garner just as many viewers world wide as a Nadal or Federer match. So should lower ranked players who rise to the top be awarded a smaller kitty because they don't grab as much attention? I think not.
35
Americans have to stop trying to throw their values on other countries. This is the way the do it in England. If you don't like it, don't play.
16
The equality of women is not a national issue- it is a world-wide issue. A woman should not be labeled as a man's property.
52
Yeah but women are either referred to as Miss or Mrs. despite the Ms. thang. Therefore, women's marital status is highlighted daily in our lives. Why are men just Mr.? We've got to end this distinction. I absolutely hate it when a salesperson refers to me as Miss. I ask them how do they know if I am a Miss or not? Usually get crickets. In parts of Europe ALL grown women are called Mrs., respectfully, always.
4
I love the respect for other cultures that the Times shows in the article. What’s next? A ban on English muffins?
9
I'm just here for the tennis.
11
So are the female players.
5
Using the same convention when addressing men and women tennis players certainly is appropriate, as is equal pay and parity on top courts. When, however, will we see women compete best of five at the majors as men do? It would be great for the game and for women tennis - and it would be equal.
5
women's tennis will never be equal no matter what is done to try and make it so.
As soon as tennis authorities grant the women tennis players' long-standing request.
1
Whenever the powers that be decide it. You think the Williams sisters are going to object, much less the younger players?
Tennis has way bugger problems than this. You want to have some fun, go to Youtube and watch a few of the marches that involved McEnroe, Connors or Bjorn Borg back in the day or better yet, Connors run at Forest Hills in 1991. Then watch what passes for tennis today (100+ MPH serves and baseline to baseline tennis for the men, pretty much grunting for the women and carbon fiber rackets for both with sweet spots the size of a small town) and try to tell me that the golden age of tennis isn't behind us.
7
This is a strange article in a US newspaper, where marital status is far more important to people than it is any European country. Here, in most people's minds you are 'married' or 'dating' - there is little middle ground. I have noticed that on official forms in the UK, there is an option to check 'living together', which I have never seen in the deeply religious USA. In many European countries, marriage is considered a thing of the past, with couples commonly having kids without marriage - including senior government figures, which would be unthinkable in the US. On the whole, it is the US that is more old fashioned when it comes to marriage.
11
Yep, it is called openmindedness- a rare commodity in the US
And they have to wear entirely white outfits! What an outrage.
10
So annoying. Can you really not look at the history of men and women and women's place in society, having been considered the property of her husband, and see that this is an issue with roots in inequality and subservience? How is that comparable to the wearing of white, which, by the way, is another stupid tradition?
2
"It still doesn’t register that I’m married actually,” Serena joked when asked about the matter.
If that statement were made by a male tennis star, it wouldn't be a joke. It would be a sign that he's probably a cad. Double standards go both ways. And they are everywhere. Did Serena win or lose? That's what I care about.
4
...not really. Seems you're reaching a bit. It's a perfectly innocent statement. She was saying that she has gone through a lot of recent change and can't really absorb it all. If a man said what she said, I'd take it exactly the same way.
19
Surely the point is - Serena would be called 'Mrs Ohanian'. 'Mrs' Williams is wrong whichever way you cut it. Just as calling Diana, Princess of Wales "Princess Diana" was wrong. She was not born a princess, only gained the title on her marriage to Prince Charles, Prince of Wales.
Keep up peeps!
4
She didn't change her name. Mrs. Ohanian is not her name in any sense.
10
The women understandably demanded equal prize money a few years ago, and got it. They should also begin to play best-of-5 matches, like the guys.
7
And, what does this have to do with woman not being recognized as a separate entity from her owner/husband?
3
This article brought to mind some naming quirks I hadn't really thought of before: speaking in terms of general trends, in the coed basketball league I used to play in for fun the guys tended to call each other by their last name (without Mr.), the girls called everyone by their first name, and the guys called the girls by their first name.
Of course there are numerous exceptions to these but, thinking back, those were generally the applicable patterns.
At Wimbledon the mandatory dress code is still "wear white." Tradition. In the grand scheme of things talking about married women is a non-story. In other news, Marin Cilic was upset today by Guido Pella and Rafael Nadal won his match. Vamos Rafa!
4
If American tennis players don't like the norms used at Wimbledon, they don't have to play there. As near as I can tell, Wimbledon is in the UK, and not in the US.
15
Why can’t they just name themselves. Why are you afraid of a persons right to name
Him/her self?
18
The players don't mind; it's the identity-politics obsessives at the NYT who do. You know, the same ones howling about Scarlett Johansson playing a transgender but applauding the intentionally-inaccurate casting of "Hamilton".
17
@Mary M. Why are you afraid of other cultures?
2
Maybe this article should have been written for The Times of London or another British paper. What's the point, beyond telling Americans how illiberal the British people are? Maybe we should write letters to the Queen of England?
8
Why any prefix? How about identification by first name and last name no title? Or is that too easy?
56
It's always amusing that a vocal minority of women hates being called "ladies." perhaps in their case it truly doesn't apply, but most women like being thought of as ladies, just as men like being thought of as gentlemen.
10
Sheesh. The term "ladies" has been used throughout history to discriminate against those who were perceived as unladylike. Like athletes who were women, who were often accused of being lesbians, because they pursued men's sports.
17
Why are women called ladles, while the men at the same sporting event are called men rather than gentlemen?
3
You should read up on the customs of Wimbledon before criticizing its use of “ladies.” It uses “gentlemen” for men and “ladies” for women. Wimbledon is all about proper customs and tradition. Contrary to popular belief, just because a practice is a tradition or what is considered proper, does not mean it is inherently bad. Have the players objected to it? No. Let players who know the sport better than any of us change it if they feel oppressed. Wimbledon remains a beloved tournament that tennis players feel honored to play at. It is not interested in oppressing its players. Also, the ladies’ draw is meant to signify that those playing in it are on the pro tour as opposed to the girls’ draw which is junior players. Should we object to the players in the girls’ draw be called girls if that is how they identify and what they choose to participate in?
Most women publicly announce that they are married by wearing a wedding band. So they they tell us whether they are a Ms. or a Mrs. The real disclosure is made by the married female entrants. Wimbledon is merely advertising what the players already disclose.
2
Did you read the article? The point is that male players’ marital status is not noted — they’re just referred to as their last name e.g. Federer. The women players get called one thing when they’re single, another when they’re married. Sigh. Read the article!!
65
I know very few, if any, women under the age of 75 who are married and want to be called Mrs. Ms has been the business and social convention for decades. If a women doesn't change her last name to her husband's, as Serena Williams has not, why would she be called "Mrs Williams"? I've never seen any convention for that. Whether a person is married or not is not an automatic reason to change what they are called.
In the case of Wimbledon, as Karen Able points out, male players are called by surname, and are not 'recognized' as married or not.
The whole thing is archaic.
27
Karen: Your assumption is that most married men also wear wedding rings. You might want to check that because it isn't true.
1
Are woman at Wimbledon still playing best of three sets while the men play best of five? For the same prize money?
14
What, you think prize money should be awarded on the basis of time spent playing? So a player who dispatched his/her opponent in straight sets would get less that the winner in a long drawn-out match?
Women playing best of 3 and men best of 5 is yet another vestige of a time when women were considered to be less robust than men.
12
Yes, exactly. All the more reason that we should not continue to diminish women's stamina by "protecting them" by having them play only best-of-3.
1
So have women play 5 sets. It's not like the women begged for a 3 set match. Do you think Serena's not up for it?
This is what they do to women. In track and field, women weren't allowed to run marathons until like the 80s, I think. All because of the presumption that women are too weak. Then what will your excuse be for paying women less? Because you'll always find one.
2
Why does marital status need to be front and center for anyone?
52
this issue qualifies for an article in the NYT? We have a lot more to worry about during the reign of Trump than how some British tennis tournament tables its participants
12
Its the same underlying issue
5
You can readily read all about that not in the - Sports - section.
2
Yes. This is an issue of erasure of women's identities. If you don't understand how that fits into the broader issue of women's empowerment, please re-read the article.
5
This is what's generally known as a First World problem.
31
It’s still a problem
10
While the "first world problem" is intended to shut people down, it's perfectly fine to recognize minor, as well as major problems. Our brains are these fantastic machines that can manage more than one issue at once, of varying importance.
12
When is the world going to follow every American custom? This story from England is intolerable. To steal a line from My Fair Lady, “why can’t the world be more like us.”
15
Women viewers - boycott Wimbledon until female players are given the same recognition/honor as men. No need to change our name or be called "Mrs" or "Ms" Use the last name for the champions who make it to Wimbledon - male or female.
7
And what is your stance on women putting in half the time men put on the court, and earning the same amount in prize money?
6
It is a prize, not a paycheck.
1
This sure beats reading about Trump!
32
A man's marital status is more difficult to determine as Mr. remains Mr. whether a man's single or not. With women, Ms or Miss becomes Mrs, thus easier to distinguish. Furthermore, women still do tend to take their husband's last name.
The tradition is certainly antiquated but also seems to be rather harmless.
5
Since it’s so difficult to determine for men, why not just dispense with this practice altogether? Last names (or family names) only! So much more straightforward.
19
"Harmless" perhaps until...your hard-won victory is listed in the annals of Wimbledon as your spouse's surname. Hyphenate ladies..hyphenate.
3
Would you like your accomplishments to be listed under your wife's birth name?
7
The correct thing, of course, is to ignore gender and put nothing or a simple M. in front of everyone's name. If it takes longer to figure out whether someone is in the male or female bracket, well then, that's just the price of doing things the way they have to be done.
4
Wimbledon is so far behind the times. I heard they still have separate changing rooms for men and women. Outrageous.
18
And they make the women play best-of-three sets rather than best-of-five like the men. Equal pay for equal work? Not at The Championships.
3
Would the PC police allow us to enjoy at least one last sport’s tradition? It’s pure irony that the same women who take exception here got up at 4 AM to watch the Harry-Megan wedding.
12
Whose enjoying it? Not the women whose actual names are erased on the board in favor of their husbands.
39
They didn’t change Serena’s name. They simply put Mrs instead of Miss. Most people know the difference.
How would you know whether any of the women posting here watched the wedding?
8
Only the New York Times could come up with an article that contains such fascinating bits of trivial information. I love it.
And only the New York Times could take as much space as it does wringing its collective hands over nothing.
Prize money differentials are a real issue for women players. Center court distribution is also a matter of fairness.
But whether some announcer or record book records their marital status? One of the current players put it best:
"But with the courtesy titles at Wimbledon, the occasional unforced error is made. Yanina Wickmayer married Jérôme van der Zijl last year, but was called 'Miss Wickmayer' by the chair umpire during her second-round win on Wednesday.
"Wickmayer said she did not care how she was addressed. 'As long as I’m winning points and games, I’m all good,' she said."
God Bless The New York Times for everything is does, but sometimes Wimbledon oddities are just Wimbledon oddities.
16
This is important! Not as important that women far outnumber men in numbers enrolled in colleges and law school, but really important. Otherwise fans of tennis may not know Serena is married. What?
She had a baby? Really? Never heard about that.
1
It’s the same underlying issue-control of woman. A name is powerful. Traditional
Wimbledon May be more polite than trump: but the issue is same
5
You make a good point about education.
Our young men get only about 40% of college degrees. When those numbers were reversed, we rightly got to work to help our young women "catch up." This sometimes included admissions quotas.
Why are we not doing the same now to help our young men?
Mr. remains Mr. and Monsieur remains Monsieur whether the fellow is married or not married and the last name remains the same.
Ladies may take a new last name , keep their own , or hyphenate the two. They may choose to be called either Mrs. or Ms.
This has been the protocol for many , many years. It must have been a dead day on the tennis front for not one , but two columnists to waste their time and ours by stating the obvious and beating a dead horse as if it were a cat with nine lives.
Serena will call her self whatever she pleases despite the ancient rules in place at Wimbledon.
6
Thank you! This is an odd, roundabout form of England-bashing.
2
It’s called an antiquated idea . Like slavery or non voting for non whites. So Just let people name themselves. So much simpler
4
Courtesy title? Really? Tradtion? Oh, please.
How silly of Wimbledon (and the tennis authorities) to diminish and degrade the accomplishments of these amazing athletes by denying them their names.
Poor form, indeed. Let the athletes (of all genders) choose which name (and marital status if they wish) they'd like to to be used in the tournament.
100
The others may be accurate but confusing, but it seems inaccurate and confusing to refer to someone who uses her maiden name as Mrs. Maidenname, such as “Mrs. Williams.” She is not the wife of Mr. Williams.
34
"Mrs. Williams"? Really? She is either Ms. (or Miss) Williams or Mrs. Ohanian.
48
Chris Evert took part in a discussion yesterday on ESPN about women in tennis, marital status, having children, etc.
Nevermind the matches that were underway. I am eagerly awaiting a deep dive into how Roger Federer combines marriage and fatherhood with his busy travel schedule.
20
After his match yesterday, Mr. Federer was interviewed by the ESPN team for quite a long time. They did talk about how he now takes time off during the clay court season to spend more time with his family, how his children react to his work, and his charitable work in Africa.
23
I agree that less time is spent discussion the ability of men to balance work and private lives. That said they did mention his four children.
Well at least the author is not prejudiced against women who take their husband’s last name. So much for tolerance.
7
I did not see any comment that it was wrong for women to take their husbands names. The article is about inconsistent treatment between men and women. It also discuss the peculiarity of being listed by the full husbands name not just the last name.
2
Enslave women with the Mrs. brand. Even when they have wisely never given up their own last name and taken their husband's. Outrageous. These women should unite and boycott Wimbledon until this obsolete practice ends.
21
I’m against slavery, but the title of Mrs attributed to a woman who doesn’t take her husband’s last name is a little short of slavery in my book. Go ahead and boycott, maybe the tournament will fold. Then we can enjoy life without this painful issue.
9
Please educate yourself on the history of the Mrs. brand. Women were considered property of their husbands and branded with his name, like his cattle and their children. Thus a woman is "enslaved" by the brand of her husband's last name, having legally given up her own identity. When a couple is engaged, ask the man whether he will give up his own last name Jones and take his wife's name Smith, becoming "Mr. Smith." Men are shocked by this suggestion, because they value their own identities.
I'm an anglophile, was raised to love all things British, but, this is...ridiculous. For one thing, Miss Williams is not married to her dad so the Mrs Williams thing is just weird. Also, if last names for men are good enough then why not the same for women? It's just simpler and cleaner.
89
...as it is in the rest of society. This isn’t new.
3
Aside from this silliness of including a woman's marriage status at all, referring to Serena Williams as Mrs. Williams is simply inaccurate. I don't know her family's history, but presumably her mother could have at one time been referred to as Mrs. Willams (or not, depending on her choice/s). However Serena Williams is not married to a Willams so they aren't even using this outdated "tradition" correctly or consistently. Please get over it: our accomplishments, athletic and other, should not be attributed to our partners or spouses. Game, Set, Match Williams.
54
This is interesting but beside the point. Women should get equal access on the show courts and equal prize money.
1
In the four majors the men play up to five sets while the women are limited to three sets. Are you advocating equal pay for unequal work?
5
I agree that if the majors are to have best of 5 for men, the same should be true for women.
However, as other have said tennis prize money is not based on the points won but by the match win. A man who win in three does not get payed less then a man who wins in five. This is a false arguement.
This is a huge issue. The horror of being called Mrs. And what can be done to convince Serena that she is married. What to do?
9
Huh. It’s about choice. Although why become a mrs. Anybody midway through adulthood. In all of USA Name me 10 guys who have changed surnames at marriage and used wife’s surname for children. Hmm
2
I’m just worried about Serena. She needs help. It would be a shame not to know you are married. Poor Serena.
1