As Ralph Ellison and Ta-Nehisi Coates observed, whites are asleep to the reality of black life in America. There is endemic racial preference which accrues to whites in virtually all aspects of life in America. It's difficult for whites to acknowledge this because they don't experience it. This is exacerbated for whites because most of the income and wealth in this country goes to a very small fraction of the white population. Since whites suffer economic discrimination by the white economic system, they have little sympathy for blacks who suffer from it even more.
366
Yes, totally agree that there is a great deal of inequality between white and black America. And this is caused by both cultural and structural factors which reinforce each other all the time. But equality of result between the races is not the function of government nor is it even in fact desirable. So long as we have equality of opportunity under the law the chips are going to fall where they may, or rather where they belong. Social engineering based on skin color is usually a very bad idea. If black culture is failing in America, the "sympathy" of white America isn't going to help very much.
1
This is factually incorrect! The inequality experienced in the US is definitively the result of governmental policies, from local principalities with restrictive real estate covenants to federal agencies enforcing segregation by selective backing of FHA loans. Blacks could not access FHA loans, were steered to lower quality housing and therefore more crowded and eventually underfunded schools. Everything else followed from there. It’s time to junk the ugly myth of black pathology and admit that government was/is responsible for much of the wreckage everyone sees.
Well then it’s up to Blacks to outsmart it.
The "races" that are always at the center of discussion are entitities created entirely for political means, the first of which so long ago was to establish an invented white "race" as superior.
When will we begin the most fundamental discussion so systematically avoided by all, discussion of Kenneth Prewitt's proposal to end classification of Americans by "race" and ethnicity?
When?
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Citizen US SE
No white student should lose a spot to a lesser qualified minority student. Whites today had nothing to do with past discrimination. My city in CT, in the early 1900s had signs offering jobs and rents with "no Italians or Irish need apply" on them. If all things are equal, I can see race and gender being the final determination. The biggest winners as to AA has been females. Not that they don't deserve it since they tend to do better in school. In 2016 women earned 52% of doctorate degrees while men received 48%. Though men out performed women by large margins in business, math, computer sciences and engineering. http://www.aei.org/publication/women-earned-majority-of-doctoral-degrees...
3
The decision against Affirmative Action is classic Trump. Trump's obsession with Obama has no end. Trump is the person who questioned Obama's intellect about how he was able to to attend ivy league schools. This is classic Trump. He always boast about his ivy league credentials but can't spell simple words. A person born into a privilege world who lacks empathy for his fellow man. Trump boast that he gave his music teacher a black eye in the second grade. I am sure if Trump has been an African-American boy, the outcome would have been very different. Talk about privilege.
Does Trump have any sense of the massive irony and hypocrisy of this move to abolish affirmative action? The man was born to wealth and elected with the now incontrovertible evidence of assistance by Russia. Left to his own devices he likely would have failed in both life and politics. His intellect seems quite limited, ego quite fragile and his alleged business savvy resulted in numerous bankruptcy and adverse court settlements. I suppose he could have made it as a carnival barker or used car salesman but there is a lot of competition in those fields.
A slightly more accurate headline than the purposefully misleading "Trump to Discount Race..." used in the print edition. What else is new this is the Times? How about the more accurate"Not Prioritize Race in admissions"? Which is as it should be. There is no advantage in diversity for diversity sake. It is counter productive, discounts achievement, perpetuates stereotypes, heightens animosities...
3
as an Asian American, I approve of Trump's order. affirmative action is biased against Asian Americans as indicated in the Harvard supreme Court case and in NYC.
6
I think it would be a measure of good faith for The Occupant to voluntarily surrender the degree he got, (or so we hear - we have to take his word on that one) from the U of Penn. After all, he was only able to attend through the “affirmative action“ of his father in writing a big check. While he’s at it, perhaps his Senior Advisor Jared should do the same. This mediocre academic was only accepted to Harvard after his dad wrote a $2.2 million donation check to the school. Another thought, the Justice Department, to the extent it still functions as such, should prosecute these institutions of higher learning and their “legacy” attendees for conspiracy to commit bribery and bribery. And, in some instances, (here the senior Mr. Kushner comes to mind as an example), for knowingly accepting ill-begotten funds.
9
This is all so confusing to Democrats.
If we are not allowed to fixate on race, how are we to live?
18
"Schools should continue to offer equal opportunities for all students while abiding by the law.”
What a perfect example of Newspeak.
It's AMERICA that should "offer equal opportunities for all students", and as that's not the case for black kids at all (as so many studies show) the only way to correct the situation when there's still time to do so, is when it comes to deciding how much opportunities we'll give young black Americans once they try to enter college.
Wanting to end affirmative action is hoping that history will disappear just because you decide to ignore it.
It's not very smart, to say the least, and of course it's the very opposite of "justice".
Trump promised to be so much BETTER than Obama "for the blacks", and he's doing the exact opposite.
He did the same with LGTBQ Americans.
He did the same with people supporting/needing social security (he recently once again introduced a draft for a bill that would ferociously cut it, after promising as a candidate - and the only GOP candidate - that he wouldn't touch it).
And of course he did the same with HC, where he had a plan, he told us, that contrary to what the GOP wanted (repealing Obamacare) would not just repeal but replace it with something so much better, covering even more Americans, and curbing costs increases even more. In the meanwhile, his tax reform plan increases premiums by an additional 30%, and destroys the health insurance of a whopping 13M Americans, and that's it.
What a shame.
5
We need to recognize the systematic discrimination against boys in education, from pre-K to graduate and post-graduate levels. Study after study (search for them yourselves) conclude that female teachers discipline boys more harshly, and give boys lower grades than girls, while boys score the same as girls on tests of the subject matter.
Women teachers routinely gang up on the minority of male teachers, hounding them out of the classroom.
Nearly 60% of college graduates are now women as a result of this systematic discrimination that tells boys they are bad and stupid and must be silenced and give them precious few male role models, when that is not true and not fair. Inner city boys in the Boston high schools have internalized the message. I have heard them say it about themselves. It should make any fair-minded person angry.
The discrimination continues at the graduate and post-graduate levels. Women research professors systematically discriminate against male applicants for post-graduate work, guaranteeing female domination of the academy (already true in the social sciences and humanities and increasingly true in the hard sciences as well) and these women are never called to account.
Women - stop your discrimination against boys and men in education!
13
An "all white" society is boring! That is why I moved from a small, all white town, in the Mid West to NYC when I was 21. Give me a diverse culture -- any time.
10
Americans believe that Trump is a racist by a 2% plurality. https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2554
Racism is just one manifestation of his character deficiencies. If the media and most of the populace continue to ignore his psychological profile, his racist manifestations will be the least of our problems. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-time-cure/201709/the-dangero....
Trump is going to get people killed. Either he will start an unnecessary war or provoke otherwise good people into violent acts out of frustration. If the media continues to ignore warnings from behavioral professionals and if the behavioral professionals continue to message each other exclusively, the road to devastation will become reality by default.
5
It is interesting that so many people here are interested in diversity of skin color, but not so much in ensuring diversity of political views on campus. How hypocritical.
20
What appears to be fair, obvious, and innocent on the surface is really a slap in the face especially to African and Native Americans. They are the only groups that did not choose to come to America and were treated shamefully by the white power structures of our society. It will take a lot more time to set them squarely on an equal footing with whites. Supreme Court precedent is deeply rooted in support of affirmative action. Will the new justice appointed by Trump follow established precedent in this case? I suspect not because racial prejudice under girds this action. Bottom line-- is this not primarily an effort to maintain waning white supremacy in a rapidly growing and increasingly diverse society? I suspect we are witnessing another attempt to put lipstick on a pig.
7
Thank the Lord for his decision to do this. Obama was completely racist against hard workers. DeBlasio is doing the same thing with the elite NYC schools. How dare they use race to eliminate qualified students over minorities that they favor. Thank you Mr. Clear Thinking and Fair Mr. Trump.
17
Trump and his feckless Republican sidekicks are working around the clock to undo every painful step of social progress this country has made since its founding. Trump's fans are thrilled even if it means that they will pay a heavy price when Social Security and Medicare defunded to pay for the massive tax cuts given to the right wing billionaire owners of the Republican Party. These sad Trump enthusiasts are unaware that they are the tools of the super-rich. Racism obviously overpowers self-interest.
9
Race-ism means evaluating a person upon their race. The whole system is therefore racist by the very fact that race is, in the USA, a formal and legal status. The societal problem exists. The solution through affirmative action is an immensely counterproductive way of dealing with it. Such a huge mistake!
8
You don't need to actively consider race...jist alter what you look for in your admissions process to favour certain groups.
Racists - of any stripe - always feel their racism is for a good cause. So thanks, President Trump for ending this racist and harmful policy masquerading as "fair and just". Ending the racially focused admissions polices shows that race will NOT be a determinant factor in how one is treated in this society - even if the misguided and benighted "feel" that it's for a good cause.
16
My kids' high school spent countless money and effort trying to boost the mediocre kids at the expense of the brilliant. New York's mayor is doing the same. That mediocre kid is most likely not going to find the cure for cancer while the brilliant Asian kid just might have.
21
So colleges shouldn't weigh someone's experiences growing up as a minority in college admissions. But they can consider: Whether your parent went to the school, your summer job at Dairy Queen, your volunteer job at a cat rescue, your father's fraternity, an essay ghost written by your college admissions coach, your illustrious lacrosse career, etc etc. Absurd.
8
Trump is making a grave error in judgement here.
How about getting rid of legacy admissions?! That’s a very real abuse of admission criteria that favors whites over other races. Just because your daddy, granddaddy, great-granddaddy, etc., etc. got into Princeton, Harvard, or Yale doesn’t mean you deserve to take a spot someone more qualified should have.
Or in the words of G.W. Bush, "For those of you graduating with high honors and distinctions, I say well done," he said. "And as I like to tell the "C" students, you too can be president.”
For the record, personally I like Dubya, he has a wicked sense of humor. It’s his politics I disagree with.
www.nytimes.com/2017/08/06/opinion/college-legacy-admissions-affirmative...
www.dallasnews.com/news/news/2015/05/16/george-w-bush-gives-commencement...
2
I wonder how laws protecting minorities will “evolve” when Caucasians are in the minority?
9
Can Trump’s deep and passionate racism be made clearer than in this action? And all this because of his jealousy and hatred of Barack Obama. This hatred is the engine that drives Trump more than any other — except perhaps, his egotism.
7
Getting admitted to college is an important step. The better the school, the tougher the major, the better your opportunity to build a successful career. So yes, it would nice if all groups have the same level of ability. And I think everyone would like to see Blacks perform well and not need AA -- as that in itself is racist as it assumes Blacks can't perform as well.
For those arguing that getting rid of affirmative action is bad, where is your proof that affirmative action works? Don't have any do you. Here is what would constitute proof. On avg Blacks score almost 250 points lower than Whites/Asians on the Sat -- roughly 1.5 standard deviations. This is a huge gap and in order to demonstrate that affirmative action is in fact fair, you'd have to show that for Blacks the SAT under predicts their college performance (even though it is a valid predictor for everyone else). Let's use the avg scores: Blacks about 850; Whites/Asians about 1060-1110).
In order to show AA is fair and works you'd have to demonstrate that Black kids
1) Do better than those White and Asian kids who score at the same level.
2) Do as well as Asian/White kids who score substantially higher - 250 pts higher.
3) Select as many "tough" majors as White/Asian's and perform as well in the classroom.
4) Graduate at the same rate.
Is there data that shows this? I don't think so -- although we've had 50 years to do that kind of research. The interesting question is -- why not?
18
The Democrats are telling is that the purpose of government is to discriminate against certain people because of ethnicity and skin color to achieve the racial numbers they’ve decided are appropriate. Makes sense!
9
The Democrat Party of FDR and JFK is gone forever. The Democrats of the future love racial quotas and socialism
12
Race should never serve as a crutch to anyone.
15
At commencement in May 2017, Harvard president Drew Faust announced that with the incoming freshman class, Harvard would become a minority majority school. Her arrogant declaration made myself, and probably lots of other white Harvard graduates, feel very unwelcome.
In a country that is about 65 percent white, Harvard must have worked hard to deny qualified white applicants admission.
Admission to college, hiring for jobs, etc., should be on the basis of merit. Period. Affirmative action is nothing more than institutionalized prejudice against white people, pure and simple.
If you white liberals are truly committed to affirmative action, I challenge you to give up your admission to college, or your job, in favor of being replaced by a qualified minority.
17
I wonder when Trump will go after "legacy" admissions.
2
Wake me when he decries legacy admissions
5
This approach would only work if our culture was color-blind. I say “how much evidence do you need that it is not?”, but the Trump Administration invents alt-facts and rejects evidence that does not fit their white nationalist viewpoint. (This opinion comes from a white lady by the way.) Our only power is the vote; and we need to use that in November 2018 and November 2020 to get these people out of office and take our country back before we reach a tipping point and the damage they are inflicting on our country becomes irreversible.
1
There should be no "Race?" question on any application for any school, job, loan application, etc. You should get into a school based solely on your academic performance, you should get a job based solely on your qualifications, you should be approved for a loan based solely on your credit. Nobody should get bonus points for the color of their skin. Once we stop applying race to everything/stop talking about it, it goes away. Everybody is equally responsible for keeping racism alive. As soon as something happens to someone and that person is not white, its because of racism in todays world. I'm sure someone reading this will determine its a racist statement somehow, even though I am advocating for equal treatment of everyone. Fire away!
14
The argument could be made for Blacks getting AA because of their history of severe discrimination and visibility, but why do Hispanics as a group get preferential treatment? Why not other discriminated groups i.e. Roma, Arabs, Mediterraneans, etc. who also have diverse opinions to offer a college classroom? I've met Hispanics with blond hair and blue eyes who got into elite universities just because they have Spanish surnames. They in turn hang with other white people and get integrated into white society easier than Asian-Americans. This dives into the bigger question of who gets prefered because of "past injustices" because many groups have long lists of grievances. AA based on race is superficial and wrong. It also hurts kids for making them feel bad that they are the "wrong race" for college admissions.
21
For every candidate who is given preference based on his race, there is a candidate who is discriminated against, based on his race.
Even if the decisions of these universities is deemed constitutional, tax payers should not be subsidising this behavior.
19
Mr. President: You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency.
4
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race, is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” Chief Justice Roberts 2007
21
It seems Mr Trump is profoundly traumatized by President Obama’s roasting during Washington Correspondents Dinner. No wonder he wants to reverse everything Mr Obama did.
8
Re. Harvard, the Asians are the only ones who dare to sue. According to Hillel, the graduate school student body at Harvard was 67% Jewish last year. This does not reflect test performance. It does show a deeply ingrained form of nepotism.
7
Let's just bring back the draft and after that roll back segregation in the schools too. Like I'm quite over this guy and all of his doings. He's barely done anything to benefit the people and he's only wanted to make due with our enemies while cutting ties with key allies. I guess everything will be cool once that nuclear winter comes in. It's like an extreme game of chess.
2
Just as the Lady of Justice is blindfolded to ensure equality of justice for all, schools should be blind to race to ensure equality of admissions for all. Or is someone proposing that our justice system handle cases differently based upon race?
7
Semantic-surrealism continues with its descriptive, ideological underpinned words, presented as reasonable explanations, within socio-political frameworks which are “reality-free.” Consider: What does “race-neutral methods” mean in a diverse country, divided in so many dimensions? Locally to nationally. Which continues to enable, and even foster, daily, a WE-THEY culture which violates created, targeted “the other(s)?” And in addition: just as no map IS/CAN BE the actual territory which it represents, and no word equals the IT being described, explained, questioned, and answered, “affirmative action,” in such a scenario? As IT targets the seeding and harvesting of ranges of viable, equitable, well being, amidst discrimination?Dehumanization?Exclusion? Marginalization?An anchored reality of inequitable sharing of human and nonhuman resources- including ranges of needed opportunities- critical for sustained healthy individual and systemic-development? What is “affirmative action,” in a culture enabling, anchoring and legitimizing, by elected and selected policymakers, at all levels, locally to nationally NOT BEING personally accountable for their words and deeds; “unaccountable actions”? What would enable the DOJ staff to understand that laws do not create needed societal menschlichkeit; (justice, ethics and morality).The latter two processes seed and harvest just laws! Will any of them be personally accountable for temporary or more permanent outcomes of the new guidelines?
I can think of many mediocre white legacy students who got into an elite school, medical school, law school, Business Schools from connections and wealth. Kids with more talent but no connections can't compete with the money and celebrity types. In recent years, Brown University will admit any kid from a famous family. The Trump family is a prime example. Kushners' parents bought him a place.
So fine, let's go full meritocracy. Read carefully, the white folks in the Trump administration are saying that MINORITIES shouldn't be given preference. They aren't talking about themselves.
6
Affirmative action initially helped move the country towards greater equality in admissions and job opportunity but is now serving to further racial tensions. At what point does the Black community stand on its' own merit or must the nation indefinitely and forever give privilege and force social engineering.
My parents and my husband's parents were Holocaust survivors from Nazi Europe who were slaves and concentration survivors, immigrants to this country. No one gave them or their children, us, any special privileges. They and we were forced to accomplish on our own merit. And while white, we did not grow up in fancy suburbs with SAT tutors. No one cared that our families were slaves. It was the Black girl in my High School Honors class whose father was a doctor who received attention from college guidance to make it to Barnard while my grades and scores surpassed hers. I went to a state school which I don't regret because ultimately in the workplace, after a few years, no one cares where you went to school. You have to prove yourself.
21
Beneficiaries of White favoritism, Education Secretary Betsy Devos, Attorney General Jeff Sessions and the US president, need an education. There are so many well-researched books supporting some of the very helpful comments to this article about the people upon whose blood, sweat and tears this country was built. Those include The Warmth of Other Suns by Isabel Wilkerson (on African-Americans needing to migrate within the US because of brutal persecution in a book that leaves the reader awed by their resilience), When Affirmative Action Was White by Katznelson, The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander and White Rage by Carol Anderson.
Part of the learning experience in a university is being exposed to people and thoughts different that your own, That is how you learn.
My kid went out of their way to avoid mono-chrome universities like the large Mid western ones that are 90% plus instate.
2
This is just another attempt to divide. This just sends another bad message of division ( e.g. others are unjustly taking your opprtunities! )
When is this administration going to BUILD something instead of DESTROYING something ?
BTW - I am 49 year old Mexican American. I believe I am capable of anything with or without Affirmative Action. I have 2 master degrees and speak 3 languages. I owe those opportunities solely to my parents who sacrificed for me and my siblings time and time again. I was rejected a few times but my parents encouraged me to continue pursuing an education. My dad did not go to college but he instilled on us the importance of education. And he armed us with two skills: perseverance and hard work. Everything else is an illusion ....
3
How about urging schools to ignore how much money a candidate's family has donated? Really, is it fair for a mediocre student to gain admission to Harvard just because his father gave the school $2.5M?
4
As a retired school counselor, I would suggest that the easiest way and fairest way to diffuse this argument is to encourage college admissions officers to focus on helping to admit applicants who are "first generation" collegians and/or students from urban high schools. It accomplishes the same goal without raising the hackles of racists and Trumpets.
3
It’s the White men, , who historically have benefited from every advantage that America confers that are benefiting most from affirmative action
It’s a a travesty that Asian American and Asian-Indian Americans applicants who are heavily overrepresented among high-achieving students are rejected. Consider
“Research from Princeton University sociologists shows that Asian Americans need SAT scores 140 points higher than white students — when all other things are equal — to get into elite colleges
same for girls who also get better grades than the males…. it’s harder for them to get into elite colleges that maintain a gender balance….
The same patterns continue to accommodate the white male .via .racially and gender
Balance.
Meanwhile for African Americans and for other historically underprivileged groups historically for centuries denied by law any access to basic employment, education, housing .basic human rights and justice….that’s another unjust journey and story.
2
I think it's offensive that people view "Asian" as a monolithic, homogeneous block. The concept of "Asian" is distinctly American. No other country would group Indians with the Japanese. In the US, "Asian" is a residual definition to mean people who are not white, black, Hispanic, or Native American.
Just like Hollywood wants to take Asian stories and replace them with white actors, people are trying to make this case all about blacks and whites.
10
Affirmative Action is a small but necessary attempy to right centuries of wrong. Racism and discrimination did not end with the Civil War. Jim Crow laws prevented blacks from building wealth in the 20th century. In particular, post-WWII redlining and exclusion from low interest housing loans meant minorities would live in poor, segregated neighborhoods. They could not become part of the educated middle-class. They could not save money, invest, or establish wealth the way whites did. (Talk about affirmative action! Whites have benefited for centuries.)
Whites, Asians, stop the whining! When we have true equality and racism is mostly a thing of the past, then we won't need AA. This may take decades, but it's the best policy we have now.
(A few months ago a successful Asian-American professional wrote an Op-Ed complaining about not getting into an Ivy League college, even though he had a better academic record than minority classmates who did. Poor fellow had to go to Duke, wbere he thrived. As those who protest affirmative action say, life isn't fair.)
1
By POTUS action today, we can all say goodbye to his plans to "Make America Great Again" and "Make America First". In an age when technology becomes sine qua non in everyone's live, this move will surely result in the exact opposite. Without affirmative action in schools, our country will continue to fall seriously short of the necessary number of IT and other technical workers that is currently required to compete with other Nations. Come on Mr. President; get with the Program.
If the goal is to establish a true meritocracy, where the best and the brightest get first shot at acceptance to higher education, then I guess you'll have to do away with the "legacy" admissions. Legacy admissions give first preference, not on a student's achievement, but on who his family is. Level the playing field for all education opportunities and you will not need affirmative action.
2
Who says a racially diverse student body advances the college experience? I say always having the best and brightest, no matter what the race, benefits the experience. The academic environment becomes the most competitive and that trumps any other purpose. And race blind admissions is by definition NOT racist.
8
What about trade schools & apprenticeships? In Germany the average age of an apprentice is 17, here in the US, 27. People trained to work with their hands are needed. Most non-college educated people are now faced with having to work in the hospitality industry, in essence as servants.
Will we face the same questions of admittance into vocational training programs as are being discussed here with AA & higher education? Will this country ever wise up & stop thinking of winners & losers?
3
Do we really have much evidence that Affirmative Action is really being used, particularly with black students? Most of the top public universities having a black student enrollment ranging from about 3.5% to 7%. Folks, that's not a lot of people and let's be honest, a significant part of that low number is comprised of black scholarship athletes. Are people really ok with large universities having only 200 to 500 black students?
1
So what? Use socio-economic status, and unique life experience in admissions. There’s always more than one way to skin a cat. We all know the game that’s being played here. These moves are just more red meat for tRump’s xenophobic, obtuse-minded, yet ever shrinking base.
3
If schools and all others could be "race-blind" for everything, that might be a good idea. But, there is pervasive bigotry and racial hatred in this nation that must be fought when possible.
4
My Korean students are celebrating Trump for this. The systematic discrimination against Asians must end. And kudos to the NY Times for actually discussing the Asian side of the issue. Most of the MSM is barely giving it time, and instead focusing on what it means for blacks. I am also celebrating this, as my daughter is Asian-American.
17
Clearly, in American society there is a gap in achievement between blacks and whites.
That is either due to nature or environment. Thinking it is nature, that there is a natural difference between people, is fundamentally racist and scientifically wrong.
It is also contrary to a central tenet of our nation, that "all men are created equal".
If it is environment then to do nothing is a choice to consign one race to lower status. Doing nothing doesn't mean nothing happens, it means something different happens. In this case it means keeping minorities in a lower place in society.
All admission does is give a kid a chance to make up for those environmental/cultural causes. It does not guarantee graduation. That has to be done on its own.
If we believe in equality, giving everybody a chance is the least we can do. It is an obligation.
Simple really. If white people especially conservatives view affirmative action as an unfair advantage-no problem. If your family took advantage of the GI bill after WWII including FHA home loans-give that back because many minorities were denied access to those programs. If your white ancestors owned slaves or owned land taken from Natives give it back-these are all unfair advantages. Let's really level the playing field.
5
Since we can't change the past, how does punishing people for crimes they didn't commit help us going forward? How does rewarding people whose ancestors were slighted help those that were harmed?
5
If you have kids, don’t give any money to the endowment fund of any school considers race in their application process.
Many universitiesalso also get federal funding, which is used to subsidize the cost of operations, thus allowing the endowment fund to select students using race as a criteria, even if there is a more qualified applicant who could afford to attend. This is not how many tax payers want their tax dollars to be used.
The endowment fund will fund a student with lower grades and test scores than your own child, which takes away the spot that your child could have had based on merit. This is crazy.
Acceptance into a college or university should be merit based for all students. There should be no discrimination based on race or religion; there should also be no reverse discrimination; there should be no discrimination of children whose parents worked hard to save enough money for the child to attend the best college they could get into based on merit.
There should be no discrimination of any kind. Once again, Trump is right, but the Left tries to distort a suggestion to eliminate racism, and turn it into something negative. Who are the real racists? The racists of the 21st century are those who would use race as a criteria in deciding who gets to attend, and who doesn’t.
12
This policy may become problematic for Trump & co if the universities actually follow through. When hoards of white students are displaced by much more qualified Asian students at each college and university, what excuse will they be able to use for their failure?
Since the "average" white student is less academically capable than the "average" Asian student, whites will be at a significant disadvantage in the college admission process.
Blowing a hole in that particular bubble of white privilege would indeed create significant social turmoil.
Of course, that won't happen at all, because the White Privilege system would never permit meritocracy to obstruct their delusion of superiority.
6
If we had universal access to higher education the problem would not exist.
2
If we had unlimited resources that would be possible.
5
What has been the outcome for blacks over the last 40 or so years with affirmative action? Specifically, has it increased their high school and college graduation rates? Has education furthered and strengthened their family values? Why wouldn't we want to push for skills/academic based criteria as the main justifications for admittance to schools? We live in a capitalistic country, Should we legislate that our business leaders, politicians, athletes, and scientists be chosen from a pool of less capable citizens, regardless of color? Of course not.
7
African-Americans AREN'T "less capable citizens".
For historical reasons, they tend to have a higher probability to grow up in areas with weaker school systems, and as such, experience a strong disadvantage when they try to enter college.
It's to correct those historical injustices that Affirmative Action exists.
By the way, it's curious how people who tend to support a highly incompetent president, all of a sudden become interested in competence again when it comes to African-Americans, no ... ?
1
If Trump were serious he would go after legacy admissions. So because someone's parent attended a university that means they get points for admission over someone else who does not have legacy connections. Most of the people who benefit from legacy are white and who knows how qualified many of them are? Instead Trump wants to take us back in time except to have most of their colleges made up of mostly white and Asian students.
So lets see someone should be at a disadvantage because of things that some other generations did years ago.Two wrongs do not make a right.The only fair way is to be color blind.The areas of the country that have poor schools should use this at as a wakeup call to get there acts together.
6
Race as a question should be removed from all applications for work or school.
15
Affirmative action by definition always was discriminatory and thus has effectively perpetuated the noxious racism this country can't seem to shake off. Effectively, we are talking about making college admission dependent on someone's skin color, the shape of their eyes and noses and hair structure. Because those are the primary outwardly visible markers that determine how our brains classify "race".
Sounds pretty silly, doesn't it!
A far better way is to ensure equal access to education, including college education, in the first place. Make college education essentially tuition-free for low income students, with incremental parental contributions depending on income levels and other dependants (i.e. a family with 7 children should not have to pay more cumulatively than a family with 1 child).
There are various other changes that could be considered, but that should be the primary one. These days, a high school diploma is not sufficient for anything. College education is the new norm. We merely need to change the public education system from K-12 to K-12+4.
That would go a long way. And for once this would be an expense that would pay for itself many times over through greatly increased global competitiveness of our workforce.
China and Europe are doing it, why can't we?!
By the way, I am a conservative, NOT a liberal.
Ironically, the Republican leadership has complained about "Activist Judges" appointed by Democrats for decades, only now they resort to legislating through lawsuits before courts because they are averse to democratic debate and legislating in a larger Congress of the people. The new Republican policy strategy is to resort to the courts that are easier to win in using the full resources of the federal government to win against lessor opponents of less means. The proof of that is Attorney General threatening action by the all powerful Justice Department with endless resources. The Republicans are the Goliath to the University David's who should pool resources to fight this obvious Eugenics themed attempt at eviscerating equal rights.
Just stop using “race” as a criteria. Instead schools should say we look to diversify our student population by (as example):
- selecting foreign born students
- selecting students from the inner city of foreign-born parents
- selecting poor, inner-city students
- first-time college students in family history
- students from areas where the % of HS graduates is below the national average (or some %).
Is “race” mentioned there? Would it help you model the student population you endeavored using race?
It might not get you all the way there, but it would put you on the right track.
2
Discrimination is wrong and is against the law of the land. Curing wrongs with more wrong will only disenfranchise more and belabor the pain.
1
If it is proved in court that Harvard has been discriminating against Asian American students, this will be a huge blow to Harvard's prestige. It will also have a profound impact on the debate under consideration in this article.
6
Well, most Asian-American students are short of ethics. Of course, a few Asian-Americans students are ethically good. In my opinion, Harvard won't welcome Asian Americans even if the Affirmative Action in schools is reversed. Asian-American students should learn how much important ethics is before they are admitted to Ivy schools.
1
The policy on Affirmative Action in Schools is problematic. Any student shouldn't be discriminated or privileged by his or her race. But the policy on Affirmative Action in schools makes Latino-American and African-American students be privileged by his or her race because they are admitted to Ivy schools more easily than other students.
In other words, non-Latino-American and non-African-American students are discriminated when they are admitted to Ivy schools since they are European-Americans, Asian-Americans, Arabic-Americans. The policy on Affirmative Action in schools should be reversed.
3
The intent is obvious. But so also is so much of what this administration does. More concerning is the lack of empathy from so many citizens for those whom the government and society has not favored over the years. The fears of the white citizens to lose their civil hegemony is persistent and deleterious to the well-being of the nation.
Between the article and the comments just about everything that can be said has been said about AA in this context. As a white male who has had a privileged upbringing but choose rather to live a humble life and lives in a predominantly black urban community, I see the wreckage of hundreds of years of oppression every time I walk out my door. When you live in bleached white communities it is easy to believe that the occasional exceptional black person that punched through the now sort of glass ceiling represents black America. It does not. The cloud of slavery and jim crow continues to hang over black Americans. Never has a people given so much to a society and gotten so little in return. Instead or celebrating what Americans with African ancestry have given us, we continue to try and white wash it out of consciousness and history. Affirmative Action was and is a small step towards redress and this claim of prosecution for discrimination against white people is just plain wrong.
5
The surest path out of poverty is education.
For centuries, in this "land of the free" blacks were slaves. Their families were destroyed. They were bought and sold like you'd buy a cow today, only we would treat cows better.
After their emancipation by Lincoln, American blacks had their rise from poverty blocked by whites From Jim Crow to not being able to get mortgages to having property whose value doesnt rise. Go ahead, buy a house in a "black neighborhood".
For today's ignorant conservative the personification of a welfare recipient is a black who's still the target of the race-based hatred which is no different than the way it's always been.
This is just Trump throwing red meat to his base and is another opportunity for Trump to demonstrate his hatred of Obama which also satisfies his base.
Trump hates Obama because Obama's black and it makes the Trump supporter's heart glad to see it.
To treat everybody equally with regards to college admissions is to keep white privilege alive.
2
Under the guidance of Mr. Obama's DOE, to correct M. Bargava's words, our schools are the place where our communities break apart.
1
Is there only one day he will act like a President, not like a dictator?
I’m urging Doturd to resign.
Of course he did. Not because it's a good idea or he has a better way. Just simply BECAUSE Obama did it. Everything he does is driven by his hatred and jealousy of his predecessor. "Sad".
3
It’s a very simple concept. Affirmative action tells white and Asian students that they are not welcome because of their skin color. There is no other way to frame the issue- affirmative action is pure racism
8
False. Affirmative Action is an attempt to correct a historical wrong. While there may be instances where the practice has gone wrong the overall premise is still a positive one.
Address the issues, continue the promise the Constitution made to ALL of America’s people.
1
Then you need to explain why Asians are required to have a 400 point advantage over other minorities or they may not get in. Punishing one minority group to favor another really isn’t solving a diversity issue.
3
I presume you have proof that the Asians being discriminated against owned slaves? And that those being admitted under AA were in fact slaves?
1
So if we’re going to have quotas to ensure that the “correct” percentage of a racial group gets to go to each college then let’s really go for it. I propose that football and basketball teams which are disproportionately black must include the correct percentage of Asian players as befits their numbers in our overall population.
8
Oh but of course.
This administration is determined to create a white nationalist state, apparently.
Meanwhile several Republican Senators are spending the 4th of July in Moscow. One said he hopes Trump and Putin have a "big" summit.
Unbelievable.
1
Where do states stand in all this?
I would think state taxpayers would understand the graveness of the proposal.
On the 4th of July, no less, when we celebrate that "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights..." the administration announces that racial make up in schools should look just like the make up of the President's cabinet.
Since there is only one multicolored biological DNA genetic evolutionary fit human race species that began in Africa 300, 000 years ago race as in human is always taken into account in college admissions. Neither color nor ethnicity nor national origin nor faith are human racial markers.
What we call race aka color is an evolutionary fit pigmented response to varying levels of solar radiation at altitudes and latitudes related to the production of Vitamin D and protecting genes from damaging mutations.
What we call race aka color is a malign white American supremacist socioeconomic political and historical myth meant to legally and morally justify black African enslavement and separate and unequal African Jim Crow.
Affirmative action based upon color aka race is focused upon addressing the legacy of the bigotry color as caste. While admissions discrimination against the lower socioeconomic classes favors rich white people over people of any other color or class.
Legacy admissions that rely on wealth and privilege of alumni are not academically merit based. Nor is the notion that academic merit is either quantitatively or qualititavely accurately and universally definable and meaurable.
2
When a people inherit wealth from the backs of those who slaved for King Cotton, King Sugar and King Tobacco there is absolutely no competition. 40 acres and mules were a "never" and it continues into this present age. SHAME!
1
When Trump was running, he told African-Americans to vote for him because, after all, "what have you got to lose"? Here's the answer.
1
Yes, they lose a terrible stain which taints all their achievements. AA is an insult.
5
Has this ugly, hateful, mean spirited man and his administration done anything positive? Do they go on a hunt daily to find something to hurt people? Certainly diversity programs could be improved and tweaked, but as usual this administration only knows how to destroy. Another example of our dear leader using his power to be cruel to people who need kindness and take us back to the 50’s to please his greedy, spiteful base.
2
Nolan -- affirmative action hurts White and Asians kids daily. NYC wants to bring that hurt even harder as they try to jump black/hispanic admittance to the top 8 high schools from 10% of the entering classes to 45%. Give me a break.
8
AA started to combat racial discrimination against blacks and hispanics and evolved into special treatment and racial favoritism for them- they receive extra SAT points. NOT GOOD!
8
College is for whites only. Just ask Trump and Stephen Miller. Betsey DeVos doesn't really care, just as long as they go into her and her friends for-profit schools. Maybe DeVos can get Scott Pruitt's wife a job as head of one of the schools.
4
Trump presidency is turning out to be white man's last stand ---as with Custer, this will not end well for him or his base.
3
Trump is turning the Republican Party into the white man's party. But to get ahead in the party you need to be a golfer or gofer for Trump.
Exactly how does 'diversity' improve a physics class?
7
By having more people learn about physics that have been historically denied that opportunity.
Inclusion and diversity, it really isn’t that difficult a concept. You may not be able to grasp it because you don’t understand the reasons behind or you simply don’t care. Many of us do.
2
Let see whether Trumpets can push for this policy. If they success in practicing race-blind admission policy with admission base on academic merit. Then the elite college will admit a larger number of Jewish , Persian and Asian American. Most of low achiever Trumpet’s kids will go to trade schools and community colleges..... with many Black and Hispanic kids ....It already happen in California public universities and colleges..where the conservative pushing for this kind of policy
Great decision.
You get in a school based on your scores, not skin color, which is actually counter to what Obama's law was trying to accomplish....
5
Trump's intention - daily - is to create outrage among some group so that he can parse any reaction for political use and advantage immediately or in the lead-up to mid-term elections. Whether he even has an ounce of conviction toward many of his outrageous and appalling actions isn't even the point. It's all for manipulative purposes. The reason so many (most?) of us can't really see the big picture and keep up with the sheer volume of lunacy is because for those of us who don't court chaos and seek to profit from it as he does, we just can't understand it. But he's sharpened these skills born of insecurity and perceived victim-hood - perhaps like no other - for over 7 decades. If it takes 10,000 hours to get good at something, we need almost 4 years to get into his mind and into the game and even then, he'll be miles ahead of us. By then, 2022 will sadly be in the books.
1
Anyone know how much Betsy DeVos gives to charity, as a percentage of her net worth, to encourage diversity at our institutions of higher learning and in the workplace?
Should be right there in her tax returns. When I was in government, I was required to file full financial disclosures, along with my tax returns, and my husband's information.
Surely she must be subject to the same requirement?
Oh wait, President Trump got rid of all of that transparency! Sorry, I forgot.
1
Trump can "urge" all he wants. Colleges and Universities can do what they want, too.
Until it comes time to collect tuition or fund research.
They can not discriminate based on race. If they admitted whites only, would that be legal?
I'd recommend reversing the Legacy admission programs at elite schools for children of wealthy alumni (do I hear Trumps?)
Now there's a political platform position that would get almost anyone elected!
3
Learning capacities are, everywhere, mostly related to where and how you grew up. Socio- economical factors set the tone of cultural ones. Merit alone is sure to be the best make-up to conceal the strengthening of already existing privileges of the white upper middle class.
1
Well said!
The issue of affirmative action in the US reminds me of the Brexit issue in the UK. Both issues need to have the emotions stripped out of them. Is Affirmative Action perfect? No, of course not. But on balance it is the best way forward for the US as a whole. Is the EU perfect? No, of course not. But on balance being part of it is best for the UK.
1
If federally funded institutions of higher education must be "color blind", then under this new standard any admissions policy based on anything else but test scores must be eliminated. The elimination of legacy admissions will open a considerable number of slots..
1
Affirmative action hurts the intended beneficiaries. Anti-Asian quotas hurt the educational institutions which implement them. The admission test for the Stuyvesant and Bronx Science high schools has proven to be an effective way to identify students who can derive the most benefit from, and contribute most to, advanced and accelerated learning which requires both high native ability and years of preparation during the pre-high school years. If the admission test is altered to produce incoming classes that reflect the ethnic composition of the general population, the students admitted with lower scores than would have been accepted in the past will not be able to keep up academically. This will result in their flunking out (or receiving "social promotions") and in the degradation of the overall performance of the class (e.g. fewer science fair winners, fewer Ivy League and MIT college admissions, etc.)
Nobody can derive the benefits of being an elite scholar without putting in the preparation. The role of native ability is debatable, but what is certain is that East Asian cultures place great emphasis on providing children with every advantage required to promote scholarship. New York city can do as it has done in the past, and accept with good graces this blessing of young Asian-American students ready, willing and able to learn and contribute at the highest levels, or kill the goose, and lose the golden eggs, such as patents, papers and prizes won by top students.
8
This policy would be more honest if it also spoke against legacy admissions and admissions related to the amount of monetary contributions. Of course to expect honesty from this administration is an exercise in futility.
1
Another great move by the president. I know that his tweeting is a little off putting sometimes but he is becoming a GREAT president.
7
The problem with Affirmative Action is that 1)- it's a stop-gap, 2)- it can involuntarily lead to lower admissions standards, 3)- it can give the impression rightly or wrongly that achievement would not have been possible without considering arbitrary factors.
Case in point: according to this article, New York's best high schools want to compromise their entrance standards simply in the name of diversity. They will not, however, use their resources to ensure that black American and Latino students can even pass the test.
I dislike the idea of considering race in admissions on principle. it is not a valid criteria for assessing educational attainment, which is the whole purpose of a school or university. More importantly, it seems to me that there is no coincidence between the horrendous decline in educational standards over the last half century and the increased reliance upon equality initiatives to make up for the consequences.
Race-based admissions will not solve the horrendous statistics for African-American children in basic English and Maths, which no one (neither Obama nor Trump) has addressed. It's a tragedy, particularly bad for boys. In fact, these statistics are mirrored amongst the poor in general of any race (including Asian-Americans) and therefore indicative of other factors as well as racism.
What about the flood of useless college degrees that can't guarantee secure employment?
There's too much focus on deeply flawed, short-term solutions here.
5
Re: point 2; the lower admissions standards are the whole methodology of affirmative action - it's not involuntary at all. Black and Latinex students with scores that are hundreds of points lower than the acceptance mean have been offered admission to elite institutions.
3
“The Democrats, the longer they talk about identity politics, I got ’em. I want them to talk about racism every day. If the left is focused on race and identity, and we go with economic nationalism, we can crush the Democrats.” -Steve Bannon in an interview with Robert Kuttner http://prospect.org/node/228328
Although Bannon is no longer adviser to the president, this policy is reflected in almost everything the president does and tweets. Trolling the left—stirring them up over immigration, affirmative action, Supreme Court nominees, abolishing ICE, etc.—is what he relishes most, and does most effectively.
Why fall into his trap? All these issues are important, no doubt, but they pale beside the need to seat a Democratic majority in the House. Nothing less than the future of our democracy is at stake. http://tinyurl.com/yc2grvj8 http://tinyurl.com/y9q7mvxk
Many promising, young Democrats are running for Congress in the swing districts the Dems need to win in November. They are campaigning on the Conor Lamb model, seeking to build trust on the basis of local and economic issues.
Many of these swing districts are suburban and rural, and are currently represented by Republicans, who will pummel their Democratic challengers with images of clinched fists by urban activists and their calls to abolish ICE, or their support of racial bias in college admissions—for that’s how they will frame it.
You want change? Then bide your time and focus on November 6.
These types of political moves demonstrate “White Privilege” in its highest form. Many whites have been conditioned to think that all opportunities rightfully belong to them. So, the equalization of other citizen populations feels as though something is being “taken away” from them. This is a new world, and one in which individuals suing a university because the institution’s admissions board preferred another candidate over you looks weak. The world recognizes that you had a 400 year head start, and that other citizens are just as deserving of opportunities that were kept away from them on a number of (abhorrently) different levels, and the public desire to attempt in some small measure outweighs the fear-driven desire to stay stuck in the past. Accept it. We’ll be a better country for it in the end.
1
More than intelligence or hard work the best indicator of future career success is who you know. Socio economic background is a far better gauge than race in considering admissions. That said there is still the likelihood that at Ivy League colleges if those from a privileged background haven't met you before they probably don't need to know you now.
As a Libertarian I've always viewed Affirmative Action with a disdainful eye. The thought that a more qualified applicant gets pushed out in order to appease the racial flavor of the moment leaves a bad taste in my mouth. No matter what race is benefiting. I know that's not a popular opinion here in the midst of the hard left comment section. But there it is. It's just another example of how the left uses Victimology and Identity Politics to compartmentalize everyone into a category.
That said...I recently read an article (possibly here or WaPo) that discussed how at present there are an inordinate amount of open positions in high paying trade/skills based jobs. To the extent of it becoming an issue. Previously i was somewhat skeptical regarding the argument that college and university are hardly as important as they once were. I saw it as the hard rights dislike of leftist ideas and educators so prevalent in these institutions. I'm beginning to rethink this as I continue to see a lot of my friends children graduate and fail to become employed in their area of study.
2
Trump is acting more like the King of England our forefathers tried to rid us of : The Declaration of Independence "The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world. He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good. He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them. He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only...."
1
Yeah, he and other white Christian reactionaries will be all for this until they realize the number of white students enrolled at elite colleges and universities across the nation will be significantly reduced under such a policy. Careful what you wish for, Trumpistas.
Now it's definitely time for us to all see Trump's college transcripts
Still waiting to see Obama’s transcripts. Let’s see the grades that got him into college, on merit of course!!
1
Meanwhile back at the ranch, Alan Dershowitz is being shunned in Martha's Vineyard. Oh, the horrors of 'man's inhumanity to man' (Robert Burns).
The dumbing down of America will finally come to an end. How many qualified people lost jobs, promotions, admissions, due to race-biased affirmative action which never should have been allowed. Reverse discrimination was used to the max and resentment grew. Asians who score the highest and more of whom should be admitted to Ivies are finally standing up for themselves in a much watched Supreme Court decision. Obama brought race relations down to a 1960's level and many reaped the residue.
9
How far America has drifted since John Kennedy made his famous speech seeking to end the racial discrimination that has been a cancer on the American soul since beyond 1776. For those of us who are NOT a U.S. citizen; but have traveled through the U.S. on occasion; this is NOT a surprise. To say there are areas where red neck racism still is in the majority is a sad but undeniable fact. Bury your head in the sand and say it is not so if you wish. Those who do not wear rose colored glasses know better.That is why Donald Trump is your President!
3
Lets get rid of the rich kid affirmative action in colleges! We can clearly see that Donnie, Jr, Eric, Ivanka all would never had been admited to Univ. Of Penn. none of them even bothered to pay attention to basic Macro Ecomomics.
We all know that Kushner’s Daddy had to pay $2.5 million to get him in Harvard!. Let allow real admission based on intelligence.
I am a poor white female, who managed to graduate 5th in my class. I saw the dumb kids like the Trumps who went to the Private schools and boarding schools who barely got C’s in college! Then the other Affirmative actions.
The Bernie Bros that accidentally elected Trump by voting for him like they said they would, well most of them were racist, sexist white boys anyway just as Sanders is. So don’t expect an apology anytime soon.
This is what black Trump voters had to lose. And there is more to come.
1
Every child brought illegally into the United States from Central America during President Obama's bungled 'child migrant crisis' in 2014 will enjoy a lifetime of government-sanctioned advantages in college admissions, various kinds of financial aid, and employment over native-born whites and Asians. The modern Democratic Party thinks this is perfectly just and that anyone who finds it objectionable is a racist.
10
Perhaps some would argue for "open borders" on University admissions: if you wander onto the campus, you're in.
After all, considering merit only postpones the anarchy progs seem to crave.
5
I'd like to see the high school grades that got Trump and his ignorant spawn into the ivy league.
1
Still waiting for the stupid lazy bum Obama to release his college transcripts. President Choom Gang Obama hasn’t released his high (pun intended) school grades either. Let’s see the high grades that got Obama into Harvard on merit
Trump obviously believes that willfully illiterate, white, males with authoritarian personalities who are highly narcissistic and come from economically privileged backgrounds are being discriminated against by wise acres who can only read and test well instead of exhibiting real life skills like cheating and bullying.
1
Of course the Left is upset that race won't matter in admissions. Race is ALL the Left ever thinks about, along with gender. And it's all geared at exacting revenge from living White Men for the sins of long-dead White Men.
The toxic racial vengeance of the Left is driving more white men to the right every day, and not a few white women, latinos, and gays, as well. Basically, anyone who doesn't want to play the Left's destructive identity politics.
To make up for the loss, the Left now supports a suicidal Open Borders policy, hoping to create an electoral bloc out of a giant future refugee camp called "the former United States of America." This is pure political desperation from a party that has permanently alienated the ethnic majority of the country. May you enjoy the bitter fruit of your divisiveness, Democrats.
8
Anyone going to call for more short quadriplegics in the NBA?
4
That's a racist idea.
That means that:
1. it attributes a deficiency to an entire race.
2. it does so even though all existing studies have proven beyond any possible doubt that that race-linked deficiency hypothesis is false.
3. it cannot but lead to injustice and the unfair and immoral treatment of people belong to that group.
And no need to reply that you're not a racist at all. Racism doesn't characterize the very essence of who you are, as a human being. It characterizes certain types of thinking and behaving.
I'm convinced that as a person, you're a perfectly decent and well-intentioned, good citizen.
But decent people can make mistakes too ... . In fact, it happens all the time, and no matter what your political affiliation, religion, or ... race is.
is that how don the con ran HIS "university"
I'm afraid the US has never been 'the land of the free' and with the unashamed bigots and religious zealots you now have in power you are only going to go backwards from here.
Trump and the GOP are doing your country no favours. Why would people from elsewhere want to visit you or buy your goods? From over here, you look like a spiteful, hateful country.
Don't get me wrong, the UK and Europe are not perfect by any means, but we're still way ahead of you in terms of equality and respect with regards to race and gender.
If you don't do something about Trump and his sycophants soon, you'll be on your own - but then that's what your lying, cheating President wants isn't it? What a shame that would be if you let it come to pass.
Good news for smart Asians, tough for everyone else. But will white / black parents send their kids to Kumon style cram schools to catch up with Chinese and Japanese kids? These schools and massive time, effort, priority on study, are why Asians are prepared.
1
Remember when Trump told the black community in 2016, "What have you got to lose?" Well, the answers come fast and furious.
1
Reverse Obama’s Policy on Affirmative Action ?
How about people with wealth getting in, huh ?
How did Jared get into Harvard, it is known allegedly that Kushner was accepted due to his father's donations and history with the school .
Can that be abolished ?
How about enroll based on only on MERITS and scores ?
That would eliminate all whites only, as trump thought it would be, instead schools will be filled with Asian students .
This intense jealousy towards our twice elected very popular President Obama will be the ultimate downfall of Donald J. trump.
2
The deplorable Democrats say it’s ok to discriminate against Asians based on their ethnicity and skin color.
7
It is important to give our universities the ability to use race-based admissions as just one essential, but not the only way of getting at a campus climate that is going to facilitate meaningful discourse and dialogue.
Fostering education opportunity for all students should be a national interest and we owe it to our students to provide them with integrated learning environments
that are reflective of the world in which they're living, and really promote their ability to learn and develop the skills necessary to compete and be successful in a multi-cultural, global environment. We got rid of Jim Crow laws a long time ago, lets not bring them back.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/03/us/politics/trump-affirmative-action-...
This article piqued my interest because it talked about the changing of school admission policies in the U.S. Despite not being a U.S Citizen, this concerns me due to the possibility that I could be attending a university in the U.S.
At first glance, this change to a "race blind admission standards" may seem to be great and not harmful. However, after some pondering it is quite troublesome. I say this because, as of 2018, we can not confirm that education around the globe is equal. Education in countries outside of the nations such as the U.S, Europe, and etc. isn't at the same standard level with some nations such as mine, Myanmar. Although Myanmar have quite a few number of, say, WASC accredited international schools, only a select few of students can afford the tuition fees to attend them. Still, the materials we learn here in Myanmar might be inferior to the materials taught in the U.S. Now, I might be wrong due to ignorance but that is what I believe to be.
My point is, due to unequal education standards in with different nation and races, it is harmful to have a race blind admission standard.
Trump did NOT rescind Affirmative Action established through case law. Here is the Obama policy paper from the Office for Civil Rights (DOJ) that Trump did rescind.
https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/guidance-pse-201111.html
Read the entire policy document. Most of the comments here are based on misunderstanding.
GUIDANCE ON THE VOLUNTARY USE OF RACE TO ACHIEVE DIVERSITY IN POSTSECONDARY EDUCATION
Introduction
The United States Department of Education (ED) and the United States Department of Justice (DOJ) are issuing this guidance to explain how, consistent with existing law, postsecondary institutions can voluntarily consider race to further the compelling interest of achieving diversity.
When an institution is taking an individual student’s race into account in an admissions or selection process, it should evaluate each applicant’s qualifications in a way that does not insulate any student, based on his or her race, from comparison to all other applicants. An institution may assign different weights to different diversity factors based on their importance to the program. Race cannot be given so much weight that applicants are defined primarily by their race and are largely accepted or rejected on that basis.
There is no misunderstanding.
As this article writes, Trump isn't rescinding "case law" (no Executive branch of government can do so, only Congress can change a law), he's is abandoning Obama's "guidelines" and replacing them with more racist ones.
1
Nowadays, socioeconomic background means a lot more than race. In tax supported schools there's a good argument that the schools should serve the taxpayers in proportion to their race and gender. IQ doesn't discriminate.
Read "When Affirmative Action Was White" by Ira Katznelson to get educated about affirmative action.
The Trump Administration just rolled back protections against mortgage lending discrimination which primarily targets Black and Brown neighborhoods.
Along with this rollback, Trump is keeping his promise to Make American Great Again (which means restore White Supremacy).
Custer's second last stand.
In an ideal world, we wouldn't need Affirmitive Action, but at this time our world is definitely not ideal.
Trump is digging into every place he can in order to reverse/erase anything that can be associated with Obama.
This is just one step in his plan to Make America White again.
Straight forward, fair and practical! Congratulations Mr. President!
4
We need a better way for admissions. Test scores should matter to some extent, but the personality of some of these smart kids? Geez, I rather watch paint dry than talk to a kid with the personality of a tomatoe.
I grew up in true poverty. We didn’t have enough to eat or stay warm. I worked after school and really had no time to read. I grew up near rich people, which left me feeling even poorer. We didn’t go to doctors.
My family did have a respect for education. I saved up to go to a community college and not work 1 semester. I am white. That semester enabled me to get some financial aid. (4.0 gpa)
But the costs of poverty ran long and deep. I made mistakes along the way which are my own. Now past retirement I still need to work.
I deeply resent how far more affluent blacks were given preferential treatment based on race- it used to pain me to see some black students using scholarship money to party while I had to work on top of studying.
Then there were quotas for civil service jobs and to some extent in the business world.
That government sponsored preferential treatment spanned my lifetime. It is enough
4
This goes to the heart of Brown Vs. The Board of Education about equality and social justice. Minority Education Matters!!!! We cannot allow an underclass to be created in our country. This undermines Democracy.
The news gets more depressing by the hour. Someone must step up and end this nightmare.
2
Affirmative action seem effective in theory however the group which it is targeted at rarely ever gets to take advantage of the policy. Very few children from socio-economically who struggle to even finish high school and cannot afford spending years at college continue to remain sidelined. There is need to formulate policies allotting more resources to minority poor groups with a sincere effort to address root cause of the problems. Affirmative actions are quick fix solutions that have low chances of benefitting the intended group.
P. S: I feel an undercurrent of animosity towards Asian kids in some of these comments. Your animosity should instead be directed towards government which has seldom made genuine attempts at addressing the divide. Also would like to point out that a good portion of Asian kids come from socio economically constrained families.
8
Access to education should be a right. All men are so not created equal in this country, from birth, so why would anyone think that at undergraduate level, the slate would somehow be clean? We have no real discussion from any side to make the institutionalized inequalities less of a factor and thus here we are and here we go again-the disUnited State of America.
1
As an Asian American, I always knew about the discrimination against Asian Americans in elite schools. It was a laughing joke among my Asian American friends when we were applying to colleges. If you want more transparent evidence, just look at the MCAT acceptance rates factsheet released by the medical school associations - white and Asian groups have a much higher average MCAT (or median, forget which they report) among accepted students.
However, my friends and I accepted this grade discrimination as a necessary evil because so many Asian Americans were so good in school, and we wanted the diversity as well. Knowing that Harvard not only discriminated on grades, but also extra curriculars, and then based their acceptance on nebulous feelings they got from intangibles in the application, does make this discrimination feel more like prejudice against Asians rather than affirmative action towards other races. However, I still stand by my original thought. Racial diversity adds to the college experience, they have different cultural backgrounds, experiences, and perspectives; the diversity helps students (who are even partially receptive) realize and humanize the wide range of people in the world.
4
In recent years I have begun to think about the issue of affirmative action quite differently. The American myth of success and merit presumes an equal starting point and a personal decision/act of will to move individuals from that starting point to a deserved end. Experience tells us how false that is. Affirmative action tries to address this, but it starts both too late in the process and also works within the very system it is trying to address & redress. I propose thinking about affirmative action differently. There is no blank slate...no neutral starting point...no merit or will in the abstract from that point. The first affirmative action is in relationship to the starting point. Those who are affirmed are those born into situations that give them an advantage in the system we have constructed. The details of the advantage could be any one, some or all of the following (not exhaustive): race, health, sex/sexual orientation, economics, geography, etc. The details fit the system into which they will be placed...they affirm the system. The first affirmative action is an accident of birth. And therefore, the insane injustice of the American system which we live with by telling ourselves fairytales about it and by easing our conscience by means of ineffective patches when the reality intrudes the juvenile narrative.
1
Where is it written that kids with the highest SAT scores are the "best" students and future citizens? It's a factor. It's not the only factor.
Why not just skip this and ignore race. For students who are underprivileged just reserve a set number of spots for them for the year after. Give them a foundation year first to see if they have the ability and drive to catch up. If so they get to take their seat. If someone gets in because the bar was lowered for them it might be rather cruel to throw them in the deep end.
That's more practical and could withstand changes in administration.
This article fails to mention Regents of the Univ. of Cal. v. Bakke (1973), in which the Supreme Court upheld race as a deciding factor in college admission decisions, but rejected the notion of quotas, setting aside a number of positions designated for minority applicants. Why? Bakke is ancient history for the younger generation.
The ironic thing about this case is that Alan Bakke did not sue the University of California, Davis, Medical School for not admitting him for being white but because it considered him too old, as he was in his 30s. After graduating the University of Minnesota, Bakke pursued a career as an officer in the Marine Corps, fulfilling his ROTC obligation.
I can’t say affirmative action has ever affected me negatively in my pursuit of higher education, but I know of cases in which it did. I know that it has affected my pursuit of employment opportunities but despite the discrimination that I have experienced as a white male I have done alright for myself.
At any rate I support President Trump’s call for ending the Obama era policies, returning to college admission decisions based on race-neutral factors, which reflect Dr. King’s dream of people not being judged on the color of their skin but on the content of their character, or in this case, intellectual achievement and potential. Thank you.
6
Before people celebrate or get up in arms remember this: Schools can change the criteria for admissions. UChicago just did that by eliminating SAT/ACT. Others will follow.
Universities will maintain diversity and admissions based on raced by eliminating data that allows objective comparisons. Grades are worthless so they will keep those, but by using holistic approaches without standardized test, they will continue on this same path for a long time.
3
Is AA fair? That’s one question. What are the effects of AA? That’s another very different question. The answer to this second question is that throughout the world, where ever AA like programs are instituted, they lead to increased tensions and animosity among different ethnic groups. I would predict that if Trump ends AA, it will greatly improve relations between different ethnic groups as well as relations between men and women. Imagine: Trump, the President of Peace and Harmony. That would be ironic indeed.
7
The Left cultivates and feeds off of animosity. Where would they be without "victims" to "protect"?
1
Just wondering what this policy shift will mean for Asian students, who are generally over-represented in admissions in many Ivy League colleges/university, based solely on "meritocracy". Should they be denied admission because of race-based quotas now?
A number of comments seem to indicate that "race-based" admissions refer only to students with Black or Latino heritage. How many potential "white" admissions were excluded because their standardized test scores were lower than any of these "races?"
Further, this "shift" in policy is issued in "guidance" that overrules the guidance issued by Obama. That in itself speaks volumes about Trump's agenda to invalidate anything done by the prior administration in an insidious and simplistic manner.
The real issue under-girding all of this discussion is not race at all, but socioeconomic status. This could be resolved by offering free college tuition for all who apply for it, with the caveat that those who take advantage of such opportunities be required by contract to work in a salaried position for a specified number of years in some form of essential service work in their chosen profession or in the military after completing their Associate's or Bachelor's degrees.
There is a difference between the Private Ivy League schools and public universities in admissions. I’m not sure this change can or would effect the Private Ivy League schools. So, if they discriminate against Asians now (as is the cited reasoning), they probably will not change based on this. Many claim they want a pure meritocracy, which has never really existed. But could it be truly implemented? And would it actually be more fair. First, merit is not that simple of a measurement. The GPA is flawed and so are admission tests like the SAT, ACT, and GRE. None are sole lpredictors of academic success. Many measurable personal characteristics do correlate with academic success. Second, is the issue of state funded schools. Everyone has to pay taxes to support them. They rely on the state support, which is not as much as you think. Many universities throughout the country receive less than 10% of their funding from the public. However, since everyone pays, shouldn’t most of us get an opportunity to attend? Now based on merit alone, some would never qualify in that the public school system is completely unequal. This ranges from access to learning material and equipment to teacher student ratios, in both rural and urban areas. Less opportunity means less access to even gain the merit necessary. Which circles back to measuring merit. So a 4.0 GPA is not the same achievement from school to school. What is a fair solution to provide access to public universities to all people?
1
College admissions, especially to those schools which are the most competitive academically, should be based on merit and performance. Otherwise, we dilute the standards for high achievement and educational excellence, and these principles should apply to public and private universities. There are many opportunities for promising students of every race to attend good schools. Not everyone needs to attend Harvard, MIT, Yale, Princeton or Berkeley. Every individual who is academically qualified should get a shot regardless of skin color. Contrarily, attempts at social engineering by admissions committees deny some of the most academically qualified students, who have by a variety of means, prepared themselves for the rigor they will face at our nation's challenging universities. Merit should be cultivated and encouraged, and not subordinated by social justice.
6
Ha - so now all the stupid, white rich kids (men) are going to get into any school they want because daddy's money will speak.
Another day, another stupid, white rich kids fantasy - what a pumpkin!
1
As they work now, many beneficiaries of race-based affirmative action are post-Jim Crow voluntary immigrants from Africa and the Carribean and their descendants. Socio-economically based legs up would do more to help those stuck in the underclass that resulted from generations of disadvantage. Those folks are still there while recent Nigerian immigrants enjoy their college admissions.
6
First of all, not one “white” alive today had anything at all to do with slavery, not did their parents or grandparents. Second, white is a socially constructed term that includes many Muslim Americans, LGBTQ, and numerous others that are just as “victimized” as your average Latino from Argentinia, Chile or Brazil. Third many of the dreaded “whites” have ancestors who died or were maimed in battle primarily to end slavery. Fourth several AA subgroups actually outperform both white and AA in Admissions and other categories-/do we exempt this people from affirmative action or do they get an extra advantage over the Muslim refugee from Indonesia due to the color of their skin? Finally the idea that white teenagers and their parents are sitting around hoping they can torpedo affirmative action to screw Latinos and AA is not only ludicrous it’s patently racist. The bottom line is AA hurts asian Americans and Jews at the expense of most other racial subgroups. Ending AA will not help “ whites” it will help Asians ( see UCLA AND CAL which are arou’nd 50% Asian) Since this fact does not fit with the liberal orthodoxy it is routinely ignored by the poster and NYT.
11
I could not agree more. What about people who have immigrated to the United States and while nominally white, did not contribute to the underlying problem but have to "pay" by not getting into the schools they are qualified for? What about the patients of doctors who got into college/medical school due to affirmative action? The public suffers as well when academic standards are waived.
2
After a while, the world will tell everyone, ignore this mentally unhinged man who knows nothing about anything. When they ignore him enough times, what will he do, throw a temper tantrum and attack Canada or Mexico, claiming some evil plot of theirs to take over the world. Folks, we have seen enough of this head case and if Congress doesn't see what we all see, they don't belong or deserve to be in Congress. Vote them all the hell out. The next batch will understand, no more lying to the American people, and DO YOUR JOB.
1
Apparently Donald wanted to wish the Ku Klux Klan a Happy Anniversary of their new fascist, racist dictatorship.
I'm so ashamed to be an American, especially today.
Trump reversing Obama. No surprise.
This jackass is still surprised that he is nowhere as popular as Obama was.
1
White people are so color blind. They just don't see race. America is so exceptional. We didn't commit genocide against native people. We didn't steal their land and force them into concentration camps, er, reservations. We didn't kidnap native children and force them into re-education camps. We didn't enslave Africans, separate and destroy their families, force their labor, and terrorize their communities for hundreds of years. Naw, never happened. We didn't invite Asian and Hispanic workers here to build our railroads, pick our food, and clean up after us. We didn't institute a legal system that enshrined white supremacy and privilege at the expense of people of color. Nope. Not us. We didn't systematically deprive minorities of access to quality education, jobs, housing, insurance, etc. Nope. 'Cause in Amerika everyone is so equal. Actually, white people are not color blind. They are apparently blinded by color, tho. Sad.
3
Well there you have it. The mindless distruction of anything that President Barak Obama constructed.
We now have a President who may not be insane but I believe has a diseased mind and is encouraged by others who are similiarly flawed.
3
Our racist president continues his very predictable pattern: If Obama did it, he will undo it. I'll bet if Obama had facilitated affordable health care for millions of deserving Americans, POTUS would scrap it. Wait, he did that already... In any case, just go through the list of anything Obama did and you'll see at least an attempt by this most repulsive of individuals to get rid of it. Democrats: Get out the vote in November!
3
Considering race is racism!
3
Stupidity has not limits....
1
More racist demagoguery from the racist-in-chief. How completely in keeping with his deficient character...established back in the day when he and his father were redlining real estate and refusing to rent to blacks, reinforced with his ads calling for the death penalty for the (innocent, exonerated) Central Park 5, and more recently with his "birtherism" and "there were good people on both sides" equivocation. Can NYT not finally come out and label him the bigot and racist that the world knows him to be?
Democrats are scared of everyone who doesn’t look like them. The thought of a yellow horde petrifies the xenophobic Democrats
5
Republicans are the ones trying to keep out everybody darker than a manila envelope.
1
It’s simple, Asians work harder.
3
Another racist move by our racist president and his cabinet.
2
Look at the NY Times "PICKS" of readers comments. Instead of a cross section of views, we overwhelmingly have one side of the story. The irony is thick. While the readers comments section is teaming with pleas for "DIVERSTIY," the comments are further proof that Liberals believe in all types of diversity, except diversity of thought. There is a reasonable argument to be made that Affirmative Action discriminates against minorities (Asian Americans, Jews, etc). But, if you make this argument here, you are an evil and vile racist. Our country has reached a tipping point and unfortunately, Donald Trump is what you get when this occurs.
6
I'm unclear on your point. Liberals should espouse repugnant views for the sake of diversity? Do you insist a sizable percentage of conservatives support gun control and abortion rights, to show your broad mindedness?
1
Asian American Support Trump administration
4
trump is under criminal investigatioln during an election time- why in the world is he allowed to pick Supreme Court Justice? They stole one seat from Obaba already. NO TRUPM pick. He is a criminal.
Not surprising that a racist misfit in the WH would advocate ending a program that helps level the playing field for black Americans. Not surprising, just disgusting.
The racist left is screaming for the Democrats to save us from the horde of slant-eyed yellow devils!
4
"Whatta ya got to lose'
The President of the United States is a race-baiter. Not much more need be said.
3
Nyt isn’t fairly covering this important story with all the statistical facts. This is something that I see they’ve been doing on the touchier subjects. The Harvard lawsuit showed that Asian students are typically scoring over 200 or more points higher on the sat than white students. Then they’re scoring over 400 points higher than African American students then Harvard is trying to pretend this isn’t discrimination. That’s a huge difference. This is truly difficult becuase you do want a diverse college, but at what point do you stop punishing those that worked extraordinarily hard to get in? The other part that’s not discussed is that while the sat isn’t everything it’s clearly a predictor of future performance. Harvard and other Ivy’s are challenging institutions and we don’t want anyone to fail out. These are the best and brightest in the world. We need to find better solutions for diversity. I cannot blame the students in part of the Harvard lawsuit. They’ve earned it and I too would feel mad as hell if people with far lower scores and activities got in instead of me. Especially if I too was a minority. We are at a boiling point in this country and I wish newspapers like the times would more fairly cover stories so we can thoroughly understand both sides of the argument instead of (purposefully) leaving out important details such as the ones in the Harvard lawsuit.
7
There's a fairly famous quote, it goes something like this: "Those who fail to study history are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past".
We've systematically discriminated against specific ethnic groups and the socio-economic deprived in this country for years. Despite their qualifications, experience and potential. Immigration has been the only way to get talented, well educated staff to fill critical, highly skilled staff to fill positions for exactly those reasons.
So now, we want to go backward in time, and fail to support entry into our best educational institutions based, on a bunch of silly criteria? I love this latest sound bite in the lawsuit against Harvard, "Asians don't have the right personality traits"
Well, say hello to the era of the "American Idiotocracy". It's coming, and with this decision, not only will we push jobs and intellectual capital away, but we'l block brilliant talent from desiring entry.
Instead of teaching our infants their first words "Mama" or "Papa", let's start with "Uh, do you want fries and a big a** drink with that?".
I fear for our future.
Recently, I spent several hours in the waiting room of a skilled nursing and physical rehabilitation facility. I listened to the receptionist make call after call to prospective interviewees. I'd say she got "No, Thanks" as an answer from 4 out of 5. Why? No certification, insufficient compensation and concerns about drug testing, or immigration status.
No worries though, "We're winning!".
I am not sure whether to agree or disagree. What are you driving at? Honest question.
1
Perhaps I missed it in the article, but I did not see any mention of the policy of "legacy" where colleges give extras credit to applicants related to alumni of the school. That is simply based on ones birth rather than any scholastic metric. I rarely see the issue of legacy discussed.
In addition, in law when damage has been done, then the parities damage are to be made "whole" again. To simply say that it won't happen again is not sufficient.
6
I've attended and taught at an elite Ivy League college. My black students were some of my best -- academically and in terms of class participation. I think this whole argument is misguided.
Here's the thing about elite colleges. Probably the top 30% of students who are applying to Harvard or Yale could do the work. So the colleges get to pick a diverse, interesting class of students. They aren't just picking on test scores. They are picking based on regional diversity, economic and racial diversity, adding a few international students to the mix, and finding a good football player or trumpet player for the band. They get to do that because their application pool is so strong. And the result is a more interesting experience for all the students who attend -- as well as a small opening for a handful of students from racially disadvantaged backgrounds to the halls of power.
Is this really worth getting upset about?
7
When the decision maker here is a certified idiot...YES!!
Thank you for a thoughtful and reasoned comment. Although I respectfully disagree with the essence of your argument on the grounds that trumpet players and football players are not in a “suspect class” or are they protected in any way greater than unicorns. It’s just wrong to favor anyone on the basis of race, gender, religion, creed, etc for any reason. SOTUS has spoken on this issue many times. One MAN unilaterally proclaimed this affirmative action without going through the legislative process. Affirmative action here is purely affirmative discrimination. It’s simply doing exactly what you say is wrong in the inverse. Please assist me in understanding your point. I care deeply about people in general and would like to better understand how I can explain to a 16yr Old why they were declined admittance to University on the basis (of someone else’s) ethnicity — in America?
1
Then you know that the average Asian in the Harvard lawsuit beat out white students over 200 points and other minorities as high as 400 points. As a teacher you would think this shouldn’t feel right becuase those test score differences are beyond significant.
3
Academic success has been shown through research to not correlate strongly with outstanding outcomes later in life. If we want to enforce a system of traditional class privilege (sure sound like we do!), this is a great policy. If we, as society, want the benefits associated with the dynamism of inclusion and diversity of thought and experience, not so much.
5
The opinions of a single person, much less those of an ignoble con artist, should have no influence on the approach to affirmative action. There are always areas for discussion - - but do we have to actually respect his bellows?
6
Why can’t we have sound political discourse without taking shots at Obama? Didn’t he unilaterally change the policy by executive order? The Supreme Court had already spoken. He took the additional step fully knowing that by avoiding the legislative process a future POTUS could reverse similarly. And did!
Actively working to cultivate a diverse student body doesn't just benefit the individual students who are admitted as the result of quota based policies, it also benefits the broader student body who attend the school. It is part of the education process to be exposed to people from a wide array of backgrounds.
19
Are you saying there are not enough academically qualified blacks and Latino should.
1
Sorry Asian male. We're helping you "cultivate a diverse student body" by rejecting you. You're welcome!
3
If race is an unfair element in admissions decisions, what about legacies? Has anyone analyzed the average grades and test scores for legacy students compared to non-legacy students of the same race? I’m willing to bet a million-billion Schrute bucks that the scores for the legacy students are lower. Are we going to pretend that being a legacy has anything to do with merit?
20
And you'd lose that million dollars. They're higher. I don't like legacies either but I can't think of a better way to help low income students than big donations and grants from rich alumni. Can you? If there's a better way, please share it with us.
13
I would like to see your facts? I known legacy students and they are lazy, feel entitled and usually just dumb bc they were never forced to learn. Daddi got them in and they have big bucks.
This admin decision is strictly to undo everything Obama did to raise up,all people.
Jared was no rocket scientist
1
College is great and it's a wonderful opportunity. I am always wishing that I had been a more devoted student and taken advantage of all that my (great) colleges had to offer.
That said, I think it's important to remember that there are many other ways to "get an education." Even a presidential daughter took a "gap year."
I had a great job that I quit to go back to college due to peer pressure and I have many regrets over that. I believe my company would have helped me go back to college (tuition assistance, etc.) if i had stuck with it.
Young people can do an internship or apprenticeship, get on-the-job training, work their way up in a company or in entrepreneurship, and strike out on their own in many fields (like farming!).
Of course, certain professions require a college degree or two but there are many others where that degree is not an absolute necessity.
I think we should broaden the "take-your-child-to work-day" concept and have more families rasing their own children into an economic future and a lifestyle that that family embraces.
13
@lucky13
Excellent and sensible comment. I am setting up me own kids to take that gap year and travel. I believe after 12 straight years of education in formal form, that a break can do wonders. It is a great release from all the pressures (from peer and alike) that the only way to conform within society is to follow a certain path.
More of this.
9
Race blind admissions policy of Trump is simply the euphemism for White supremacy in education also to deprive the Blacks of equality and opportunity and bring the affirmative policy to an end.
43
Given that most black people grow up in financially less favorite circumstances, and thus attend schools which may not be the best catapult into a college or university, what needs to change are the underlying economic trends, not the image of colleges as racially and ethnically diverse places. It may be hard to justify why a student with less excellent high school results is admitted at the expense of one who excels, solely on the grounds of ethical diversity. Obama's motives may have been sound, but his method to achieve them was maybe not so much. I would be careful about putting everyone in the white supremacy drawer who does not sing the political correctness tune; if you do, you run the risk of people living indeed up to their (unjustified) reputation.
1
Simply not true. No basis in fact.
Need to go back and read the executive order--nothing about forced discrimination--as it is currently being used in colleges and universities--in Johnson's Affirmative Action. Trump is just resetting things to the way it was intended to be used before the cultural Marxists got their hands on it.
50
myopic
Your comment demonstrates a sad, willfully ignorant myopia all too common among 45th's supporters.
Can you even define Marxism and explain in detail how it applies to your argument?
Coming from someone who accepts Russia’s involvement in the USA election, this is grand!
The United States is the most unequal society to ever exist on the planet. It is dead last in social mobility. So much for Horatio Alger stories. What a shame! It was not like this some decades ago. I fear for the day decades hence when we might look back wistfully on today's world and contemplate its relative equality in comparison to a grotesquery of inequality which could well happen in the future. The momentum is certainly headed that way. We must remember that we are still able to be the architects of our own future. Let's make it something wonderful and not something awful where we are strangers to one another and , ultimately, strangers to ourselves.
14
@Steve
I think we can trace back the drop off to when states stopped offering free higher education. I think we need to get back to offering at least 2 years of free higher education. (at the very least in conjunction with public service to pay for it)
just a thought.
2
"The United States is the most unequal society to ever exist on the planet. '
Evidence? How does it compare with the Roman Empire or India while the latter had a caste-based system?
Did you do any research before stating the US is the most unequal security with lowest social mobility?
I know for fact your statement is incorrect which leads me to question the rest of your comments. If you cannot keep simple facts straight or simply ignore facts, what value is your comments?
Harvard, Stanford, Yale and the other ivy league schools are filled with students from elite families, mostly white. They were born in wealthy families, and went to school in wealthy and safe neighborhoods which gave them the advantage over the minorities and poor-mainly blacks and latinos,and the poor belonging to all races, including white and asian. The admission policies are biased towards whites, since objective measures like GPA and test scores(SAT/GMAT) are ignored and the admissions officers are wealthy whites with a bias towards people like themselves. Many seats are reserved for donors and families of the staff, who are mostly white. Trump is sending his white republican base another coded message. He has already begun cutting down on immigration visas for asians. In the end the beneficiaries will be ultrawealthy whites, who are the only ones that can afford to go to these schools. The ones to suffer from Trump's policies will be blacks and browns. The college system in california is a bit better. The UCs give consideration and assistance to students from public schools, and from poor families.
29
What do you think of Asian Americans?
1
As somebody with, I admit, a pretty decent intellect and financial resources... do you really suppose that I would allow my children to occupy the same capability and achievement level as poor children from broken homes? Social concerns occupy a significant part of my time. I care about the poor. But the belief that we can implement parity again and again despite clear performance differences between people (not races) is complete lunacy. The daydream of equality implies that no one can excel. And those who do are guilty of a social crime. Bullshit.
Actually, I believe last year’s Harvard student body was close to being majority minority. Not one minority group, but the combined number. You will find this in many of the top schools. If you haven’t been on one these campuses lately, you should take a look. One of the reasons that affluent families put so much effort into test prep and application process is because applying as a middle, upper middle class white applicant from an affluent area is one of the most difficult things to do - and gain acceptance at an elite college. Even with legacy going for you.
1
Prestigious colleges and universities have never admitted students solely on the basis of grades and scores. At some point “selective” institutions select.
Once a certain threshold is achieved, for much of their history selection meant colleges gave “extra points” to certain students, because their family members were alums (see, members of Kennedy and Bush clans); because a student excelled at a niche sport (hockey or lacrosse); because their wealthy parents made a significant donation (ahem); or because they hailed from an underrepresented state. The fact that these legacies, scions, athletes, and geographic admissions were almost always of the same race and similar socio-economic classes was deemed unremarkable.
In the late sixties, in pursuit of a more diverse higher education experience, and to redress the processes’ prior unexamined biases, schools began shifting some of these extra points toward students of color and students who were economically disadvantaged. Occasionally, students who excelled in tiny towns (Hope, Arkansas) or at different sports were recognized.
It was a shift, certainly, but make no mistake, for generations, a wide array of students have benefited from “affirmative action.” Yet today, for some reason, it’s only the black and brown students who get labeled as such. And it is only they this administration seeks to deny.
28
The fringe benefits of accelerating Justice Kennedy's departure are beginning to show up.
15
A stopped (analog) clock is right twice a day. So it is here.
14
And a clock that is out of sync (with reality, using your metaphor), is never right.
So, the stopped clock performs better in this case, doesn't it?
1
Is this what it was always supposed to be about? In one week we get an open fixation from the White House to apply the dreaded "Litmus Test" to the selection of a Supreme Court Nominee to eviscerate Roe v. Wade, and how can we end the week without also taking all efforts to make this country welcome to non-whites by eviscerating race consideration in enrollment decisions. Yeah, we're going forward as a country alright. Forward all the way back to the 50's.
23
As a fairly moderate conservative person, this is a very welcome change and long overdue.
The truth is, life isn't fair, someone born to billionaire/millionaire parents will always have access to more resources, or someone born with supreme gift for music, art, math, medicine will always outperform his or her peers. If the solution was to equalise outcomes for everyone, then we would get mediocre musicians, artists, mathematicians, doctors, all of which sounds like communism and that went swimmingly well for Venezuela, the USSR, North Korea
While I have sympathy for the disadvantages faced by people raised in difficult environments, unfortunately trying to create equality of outcome discriminates against those who have worked hard for their goals, regardless of whether they were raised in an advantaged or disadvantaged household. What is most important and crucial, is to ensure equality of opportunity for everyone. The US views itself as such an advanced country, but rent seeking universities and educators constantly increase the cost of education such that's beyond the means of many people. If liberals really cared about equality and diversity, they should stop rent seeking and make education free for everyone
61
No one is talking about outcomes! The conversation is about a level playing field so all may compete.
Many electoral candidates lately are proposing free college education, so everyone that aspires for higher education has a shot at it.
Using non-merit based criteria (race, sex, legacy, donator, etc) to design and have certain groups over, under or fairly represented is the definition of creating an outcome. That outcome isn't necessarily fair or a representation of equality.
By having public education, a somewhat level playing field is already established. I believe that the cost of of higher education in the US is prohibitively expensive for most people. Disadvantaged people deserve to have their equal fair go if they meet meritocratic standards. As alluded to in my original post, liberals should consider why education costs have soared relative to other costs over time, surely affordable quality education provides a better level playing field, not to mention, millennials won't be saddled with prohibitively high debt upon graduation. But I suspected virtue signalling liberal university professors won't be too happy to give up the various comfortable perks of tenure
1
"I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
---- I guess this is what the Tump administration wants. Is that so bad?
45
Yeah, but Trump is a big meany ! Somebody call the waaaaaaaambulance !
Affirmative action is racist towards Indians and Asians. Period.
50
I am not racist; I don’t believe one race is inherently inferior to another.
Thus, I believe blacks and Latinos are as smart as Asians and whites, and therefore don’t need special assistance to achieve what they want in life.
61
When schools in minority neighborhoods are as excellent as those in the suburbs, when racism has been vanquished, and when all children have equal access to quality health care, nourishment, and early childhood education, you might begin to have a valid argument. I volunteer extensively with kids from disadvantaged circumstances (and all their parents are working hard just to keep a roof over their heads), and know that consideration of the difficult barriers such kids have to overcome are immense. Considering those factors in college applications is every bit as valid as considering another kid’s lacrosse skills or an impressive community service project that mom and dad bankrolled.
22
The pendulum will swing back toward equal consideration but it's not yet time.
2
I totally agree and would add that the difference in test scores and outcomes is a product of parental expectations and involvement. If Blacks and Latinos valued education as much as Asians, we would see different results.
1
If the average person of a particular "race" is less likely to be admitted to a college, this is not a fault of the college, nor is it the responsibility of the college to remedy the situation. Fortunately no one is average.
19
Equality starts with early childhood education. If that is not sorted then this decision is basically providing a unfair advantage to people of privilege. In effect, Trump is not reversing AA, he is institutionalising privilege.
17
Wrong. Starts with the DNA. Cosmos problem, it seems.
1
It starts with planned pregnancies and being born into 2 parent families which are prepared to parent. It starts with parents committed to each other and their offspring. It starts with parents who value education . Expecting affirmative action policies at the college or high school level to counteract the seriously dysfunctional family situations that the majority of US blacks are born into today is a losing proposition. Not PC but there you have it.
1
For once, Trump is right. Consideration of race or gender should be illegal not just in university admissions but in all job applications too. A resume should not even have a name on it so race and gender cannot be assumed.
44
You would have to do away with all job interviews and qualification certificates.
Please note that there were 25 other orders rescinded. This is a very serious Independence Day eve act. There are other serious points in the 25. You may find them on the Department of Justice page.
5
I urge the American press to ignore Trump for a couple months. Attention to a pathological liar only encourages him to lie some more.
14
If it worked for Obama, why not Trump? Equal outcome, right?
1
Trump could not get into Penn today unless his father sent a "donation".
Just as little Jared did not get into Harvard until his daddy sent a huge check. (not sure where Ivanka ended up...)
Has anything really changed ?
The system has been ( and still is) fundamentally set up by white guys for white guys. Yet, they love to talk about "merit.".....(Tokens here and there make them feel better.)
Trump is just more shameless about it.
22
Penn would actually give President Trump a professorship if they thought he would accept it. You severely underestimated the value of seating in the Oval Office
Donald Jr, Ivanka, and Tiffany all went to Penn.
Go Figure.
A family of geniuses? I think the answer is obvious.
1
I thought liberals thought people should only be judged by the content of their character not the for of their skin? I guess I was wrong.
43
Well, James, if people were judged by the content of their character in this administration, I wouldn't have to be reading about their lack of character and corruptness every day.
We want Justice, not Just Us.
How embarrassing and pathetic this man is. I would move to another country but I feel I must stay and fight back. We are better than this!
10
Lena Dunham? Canada is still waiting to hear from you.
1
It has become quite clear that besides trump trying his best to wipe out all of Barack Obama's accomplishments by using the same executive orders that he and Republicans vilified Obama for. trump is also doing his level best to take our country back to the 1950's where white males rules everything and black, brown and women knew their place. What a coward that he is incapable of accomplishing anything on his own other than wiping out the accomplishments of our previous president that he has shown he is extremely jealous of and feels threatened by. It is sad the Republican party feels the same way considering how they treated Barack Obama for his eight years as President. The good thing is, their actions say more about them then it does about Obama. In fact, it is elevating Barak Obama in the eyes of many.
17
I don’t like Trump but crudely promulgating the idea that all he and other conservatives are trying to do is empower white males and put everyone else “in their place” is crass race-baiting every bit as pernicious as the lies he spreads about immigrants. Liberalism of this flavor is anything but and a disservice to progressive causes and especially to the Democratic Party.
In short, by holding and spreading opinions like these you are sinking to his level. That’s not what Democrats need to maintain the moral high ground and regain electoral success.
In this instance the right path requires challenging the merits of their position not just lazily and inaccurately calling them a bunch of racists.
2
When you set quotas by race, you discrimate. Trump has done what is appropriate, setting ability above color. obama set back equality by putting diversity first over personal achievement. The question of ability will always exist when you put color above ability.
2
So when Asian Americans have to achieve a higher SAT score to get into same institutions, it is considered fair and racial justice?? Asian Americans are systematically penalized for their race, and if anyone really cares about equal rights and racial equity, they shouldn't applaud for affirmative actions.
55
African Americans have a sadly unique history in this country, that no other culture in this country has had to endure. My aunts and uncles were denied access to colleges, employment, and property. These circumstances occurred not to long ago. To say that our society treats black people equally, or that we have had the same opportunity as other races, is to ignore history and where we are as a society currently.
22
Welcome to the world of the “privileged”.
2
The time to “get over it” is long overdue. Stop living in the past and focus on the opportunities at hand. Only then wil you rise above self inflicted racism.
If King Trump wants to eliminate race as a factor for college admissions, then we also need to eliminate preferential treatment for family of alumni and wealthy donors.
If you think that DT got into Penn on his own brain power or Bush Jr. got into Yale strictly on his own merit, then you are very, very naïve.
51
If you want to eliminate preferential treatment for wealthy donors then you must also be for eliminating preferential treatment for the economically disadvantaged. If you’re going to take money out of the equation then you need to take it all the way out.
You can’t go half way, then you’re discriminating against rich people who, by the way, help fund financial aid for all the kids who can’t afford the astronomical tuitions. As much as it pains some of you to hear it rich people do help poor people all the time.
19
On what facts?
this is just another of trumps distractions to take our attention away from: RussiaGate, financial misdeeds, corruption, conspiracy, abuse of power, obstruction of justice, failure to keep his oath of office. His white base wants to feel empowered at the expense of people of color, Asians and Muslims. so this move is to appeal to his base.
6
Doing away with affirmative action is something that Asians want so your comment doesn't really make much sense.
2
Race-conscious admissions process IS race profiling in a sense.
36
Affirmative Action or "diversity" isn't about helping black people; it's about ensuring a white majority in our best schools.
As usual, Trump can't think through the results of his actions.
Truly race blind admissions will result in the entire student body of all our ivy league schools being entirely Asian and Jewish.
Which is fine with me. But I'm not sure that's what Trump and his white nationalist base had in mind.
26
You are 100% right. That is what will happen and I am going to just grab the popcorn and enjoy when Trump and all his racists realize this. This is a true testament to their racism because this doesn't even occur them since they think that only whites are the best and the brightest.
6
You may be entirely right. Why is it that a racist halfwit like Trump is still correct so frequently about geopolitics and issues of justice? To me, the answer is even an idiot can see that the Establishment is completely bankrupt and revels in its own logical, moral and intellectual squalor. When Trump is a leader of what is right, the problem is why wasn’t someone else there first. And there is no answer to that that is not devastating.
1
Finally, someone who understands what we Jews do - that we are not really White!
Actually, Trump tried to ban all non-whites from college but one of his remaining somewhat-intelligent staff said he couldn't. Abolishing AA is a good middle ground until they control the Courts (which will be coming up here shortly).
3
Where did you come up with this nonsense?
2
Either you believe in racial discrimination or you don't. As a people, we don't believe race should be a factor when deciding who gets to run for the gold in the Olympic track 4X100 relay. No, we believe the best, the fastest, should run. And it turns out, the gold medalist sprinters are all black, usually of West African descent. Do we say our team would do better if it were more racially diverse? Of course, not! We accept that there will be some natural differences, possibly favoring these exceptional black sprinters.
Why, then, is it okay to discriminate against Whites and Asians, many of whom come from lower socio-economic families than the black students who are given preference in admissions to Harvard and the other top schools?
47
Because the measure of success in the 4x400 relay is really easy to measure, whereas the success of inclusion and diversity is really hard.
14
Does anybody have a shred of proof (facts) that “diversity” is worth a darn?
1
It was illegal in this country to teach blacks to read!! There has never been a law to prevent whites from running. We had to sit at the back of the bus, give up our seats and order food to go before the civil rights movement. My parents, who are still alive, went through all of this. White people pretend that the deck has not been stacked against blacks in this country for 80% of its history. It has been, and still is.
1
The only thing that can be said about Affirmative Action is that it has failed miserably for forty years to achieve its noble objectives.
40
No, it has not failed. We used to have colleges where all the students were white. Now we have colleges that are racially diverse. College education is how most people become upwardly mobile. It is certainly how my relatives moved up from poor immigrants to the middle class.
17
And you also have women’s studies and God knows what else. So there’s that. And for those woefully under prepared and admitted to these best universities they can always sign up for sociology.
10
The word sociology has become a bad word in this household. If it's kept to academia, fine. But when it begins to influence social policy? That's a disaster.
In everyday life, at home or at the office or job site, when you have someone who is always stirring up drama, gossiping, pitting one against another, stirring up jealousies, nursing grievances, you always need to mindful that s/he just hasn't gotten to you yet. You can pretty much take that to the bank.
If Asian students begin to comprise a majority percentage on campuses, because they can be distinguished as non-White by physical characteristics, no matter how 'assimilated' they otherwise behave and appear, my advice: watch out. You're next.
4
Ironic that these policies come from the dumb rich kids whose parents paid desperately for their degrees. To think that this is what their top shelf educations are giving us. Are they really equiped for a merit based world? Unlikely...
13
People are missing a major point about public education.
The goal is to provide maximum educational opportunity for the entire population not just for the select few.
Even if all Ivy League schools and NYC specialized schools were filled entirely by black students it would not address the educational needs of the great majority of black students that would be left behind. Likely 99%.
For equal opportunity to be effective, it must start at pre-K. Focusing on elite colleges and high schools is too late and affects too few.
29
For equal opportunity to be effective we would need to totally erase parental influence and replace it with top tier parenting. This means keeping the baby away from it’s parents at least 23.5 hours a day. Do you really think government can provide what a dedicated, high capability parent can provide? That 24 hour, one on one professional se vice would cost millions for each child. I would estimate 10 million.
5
Before the civil rights movement and legislation, black Americans, specifically, were discriminated against. That meant that a black man who performed as well as a white man would have been less likely or unlikely to have won a place at university or in a company than the white man. Many laws were enacted that made such discrimination illegal today and for many decades. These laws provided for equal "opportunity" for everyone, although it was primarily designed for the black American population at the time. But, of course, it should and does apply to everyone. All races, colors, and creeds.
The problem has been that further laws and guidelines have taken this equal opportunity legislation and corrupted it in an attempt to socially engineer equal "outcomes" primarily for black and Hispanic Americans. It hasn't worked and doesn't work and it is unfair and unconstitutional. Our government and our society is not meant to socially or legislatively engineer results that elite leaders happen to think are good for our society. That is as unconstitutional as the original discrimination against the black community. Rolling back the bulk of the extraneous and wrongful guidelines and regulations is long overdue.
12
This situation should not be a partisan issue; this is a COMMON SENSE issue.
Best universities in our country deserve to pick the best students in our country. Each student should have an equal opportunity to be accepted. No particular race or gender should receive preferential treatment. Let the cream of the crop be taken.
32
The problem with many of the criticisms I've been reading is that they unwittingly acknowledge that a large part of the diversity an applicant brings, and a factor in the applicant's application that admissions officers can take into account without using race, is the applicant's actual life circumstances.
It is not true that if a college does not take into account race, then students from poor schools without adequate resources to succeed are going to be disadvantaged. Colleges can simply take those life circumstances into account, rather than using race as a rough and divisive proxy for those circumstances. What an idea--actually evaluating applicants and their potential holistically rather than by race!
13
This would be helpful if applied to arrests and traffic stops and home loans and car loans.
15
Sooner, but probably later, trying to kill off everything Obama and others created for the benefit of society just will not work. Sooner or later, I hope sooner, this strange man's absolute hatred will come up against the strong love and courage of Americans who have simply had enough of an impostor president. Don't give up. And vote.
14
Obama perverted justice and cooked the books at every turn.
2
Obama didn't create affirmative action. The policy has been around in one form or another for more than 40 years. It has been successfully challenged in the courts many times.
1
There are several issues at play here: 1) From a Republican perspective, this reversal is just a ploy to attract Asian voters. The recent decision by the Supreme Court to declare WWII Japanese internment camps illegal also plays into this hunt for votes. 2) Logically, if school admissions are based solely on the one exam/one grade system which students must cram for, many white students will also be excluded, potentially leading to almost 100% Asian student bodies in some schools. The instigators of the Harvard lawsuit know this, but expediency dictates that votes are more important right now. 3) The new policy is an attempt to drive a wedge between Asians, Blacks and Hispanics, similar to the successful disruption of the alliance between Blacks and Jews in the 1960's and 1970's. 4) White supremacists, resentful of Asian success stories, have already begun accosting and attacking Asians in public places, telling them to "go back to your country" even if they are citizens. A tech professional from India was killed in a bar out west not too long ago. The point here is that today's ally is likely tomorrow's victim. 5) People of good will should be able to discuss and/or alter Affirmative Action without turning it into a political football. For the record, Black "A" students do exist and some of them also have immigrant parents.
11
(6) From a Democrat perspective, affirmative action is just a ploy to attract black and Latino voters.
3
That may be, but overeducated Asian Anerican here.
1) It is working. Trump is awful, seriously, but I have been realizing just how hypocritical and indefensible the Democratic party is when it comes to Asian American issues. For us, the Democratic Party is like the perfect dad who loves everyone equally but you. If I have to reject a party that pretends I don't exist (except as the equivalent of the Burmese python that has monstrously wrecked the ecosystem of the Florida Everglades) to accept one that is using me for an evil agenda, so be it. Better to suffer demons than to be kept locked in the cellar and barred from the ball for having "personality" problems by angels who don't live up to their branding. 2) Flattering but alarmist. Given the numbers at Cal Tech, Asian American numbers would merely double, to around 48-50%. Is that so inconceivable? It isn't as if we were created to exclusively cook cheap takeout and build iPhones. 3) Sounds fine. We are happy to wait for the apologies for the L.A. Riots, the Oscar jokes, the Baltimore riots, the rapes, the murders, and store lootings that are magically never investigated or labeled as hate crimes when black people commit them against Asians. 4) So far, though, my family and I have only been abused by black people. 5) Those A students all come from Nigeria(not descended from slaves). Tell that to Asian immigrant parents with doctorates who work demeaning minimum wage jobs here to support their children. Time's up, Ivies.
4
Well, it's about time. It has outlived its usefulness. There was a need for it fifty years ago. It served its purpose and achieved its goals. Now our universities have such diversity....Harvard is complaining that they have too many Asians! So many of our Elite are of races that were locked out years ago, but now race is not the problem. Look at entertainment, sports, politics....we just had a black president. If you have 100 classroom seats to be filled, then it should be based on the academic qualification of a student, not race. It is actually now more of an issue of keeping qualified "whites" out, as they watch students with lower grade averages take one of those seats. "White" is the wrong color.
31
Spoken like a white person who has no idea of the history of black people in this country.
Please educate yourself on the what we have endured and then tell me how it is comparable to what white people on this country have endured.
4
White will continue to be the wrong color because all 100 of the classroom seats you mention will be filled by Asians. Good luck to any white student trying to enter an Ivy League school or any school in California; better yet, whites should begin considering second tier schools now.
4
Guess what? You think there are too many Asians NOW? When they do away with AA, there will be more Asians taking the seats of more whites. AA actually benefits whites in college admittance. This is going to be hilarious for Trump and the racists. Bring it on and I'll get the popcorn
5
AA is a logical and defensible form of reparations, but only if means- tested, i.e. for disadvantaged applicants.
5
Excellent decision. This will relieve all of us of a burden that has worked its harmful effects on everyone - blacks and other minorities and whites as well. Affirmative Action was a justifiable policy for its first few years. It has become a trap, and all those here ranting about it are a part of that trap. The bitterness on campuses has only escalated as these racist policies have been intensified. It's days, hopefully, are numbered.
18
And so US Universities, who are now run mostly by rigid thinking administrators, will become dominated by the ultra hardworking, rather than the brightest.
That should turn out well.
2
What a racist, Anti-Asian sentiment that falsely paints millions of totally normal people as robots. Newsflash. We're people who get distracted and upset and mess up, just like you. We're just as brave and noble and warm-hearted and creative and innovative and sexy and human. We may not be quite as tall. I'll give you that. Never considered that, huh? It's hard to wake up from the stereotypes Hollywood feeds you.
2
I used to think there was a difference between the "ultra hardworking" and the brightest. Now I think that, as they used to say about Pete Rose, that hustle is talent.
1
Universities in their die-hard commitment to racial discrimination remind me of nothing so much as a “liberal” parody of George Wallace blocking in the school house door. There is not a hair of principled difference between segregation and affirmative action after 50 years of persistence. The United States only had slavery for 75 years and that ended 151 years ago.
13
Only 75 years of slavery? Even if that was true it is one day too many. It was in 1619 that Dutch traders brought African slaves taken from a Spanish ship to Jamestown.
Although affirmative action helps a handful of those disadvantaged, it is not enough. Helping the disadvantaged in schools needs to start in early childhood. Schools that are palaces of learning. Teachers who are paid six figure salaries, including early childhood teacher like myself. It is through that path that the real adfirmative action will take place.
3
Slavery was widespread in Africa throughout history, well before the slave trade. When slave trade started, it was Africa rulers and merchants who would deliver slaves to Americans or Europeans to be sent overseas.
No more race based advantage?
Fine.
But also eliminate legacy based.
Sports based.
Donor based.
Politically based.
29
It's not a "white versus them" thing. It's a "smart versus not as smart" thing. Accepting students because of their race doesn't cut it. Do you want a smart or a not so smart lawyer or doctor? The answer is simple.
32
What Trump and his racist supporters don't understand is that Affirmative Action, while not perfect, also benefits whites in education and admittance in schools. I cannot wait to see what these people have to say when the Asian admittance rate skyrockets and LESS whites get in after his "smart" move. I am looking forward to it.
5
Kij1223: So you are assuming whites are dumber than Asians or they just do apply themselves as much as Asians? If the latter, maybe white students will be more motivated. That's a good thing, no?
Regarding your disparaging "Trump and his racist supporters" comment: Iis that all you and Dems got? I'm certainly not a racist nor are the great majority of Republicans people like you prefer to vilify because you have a different agenda, one that is way too far left for this great nation's good.
Trump should do this only if he is willing to make all government funding across K-12 equal. Now, the current system of funding K-12 with taxes (plus our country’s history of steering blacks into certain neighborhoods, which was happening as recently as 2012) has perpetuated the same inequalities fostered by slavery, Jim Crow and redlining. Until we address this systemic racism and create an education system where even students in poor neighborhoods can receive a good education, color-blind policies at the college level make no sense.
10
Achieving diversity via racial discrimination - which is what affirmative action is: literally discriminating students by race - is not a strength but rather a fundamental weakness of any school that chooses to do so.
25
I assume all the "next thing they're going to repeal the 13th amendment" commenters do realize that race-based university admissions are prohibited by law in 8 states including that most blue state, California. CA prohibition was by public referendum. So CA agrees with Trump. And the Supreme Court has been edging towards prohibiting it with every case it hears. You can help poor people, disadvantaged people, people who come from families where no one has ever gone to college, in many ways. Giving preference to the son of an African American neurosurgeon is not the way.
26
It is worth remembering that a majority of African Americans believe that admission to university should not consider race. This policy is being pursued despite the opposition of those it purports to support.
14
Wait...not using race as the discriminating factor in school admissions is wrong?
10
White kids commit crimes that should keep them out of college and also mess up their educations at some point, but the justice system and schools are often lenient or allow summer school or other ways to
Recover academically, knowing that those kids will likely grow up to be productive if given a mulligan. Black kids very rarely get a chance to make up for youthful mistakes since they generally are convicted and receive harsh sentences for statutory crimes and other minor offenses, or are thrown out of school. Affirmative action is often the only chance they have...
5
Race based affirmative action programs have had a multi generational run. As we have seen, a black American can become POTUS. Time to end these programs as they are becoming a crutch and a tool for the identity political types. People are responsible for themselves.
29
He's overtly racist and shamelessly, gleefully dividing the country on race to score political points with the racists who love his racism. This is a president?
14
There goes the Asian vote in November for Trump. Hope the Democrats like another two years in the minority, and a new right-wing supreme court justice. Trump isn't that stupid.
Addios.
13
That is Adiós. Spelling is important when you are trying to put down others as you were. I just put you in check. Enjoy your 4th.
5
Whatever. Actually I was playing the devil's advocate. I'm an American living and working in Mexico. As of yesterday, I have a permanent residency in Mexico, and I'm glad I do. So I'm not a good speller. And I wasn't putting anyone down.
Thanks for the input, MargO.
I went through a great public school system that afforded me small classes, great teachers and preparation for college and beyond.
The town was upper middle class and had very high taxes to that paid for all of those advantages.
Today most of my successful school mates sent their kids to very expensive private schools.
The Republicans are eviscerating public education, privatizing and advocating vouchers so their constituents can opt out their kids without paying for public education for everyone.
I'm all for getting rid of affirmative action in admissions when we invest in great public education for all of our citizens. We have not. The system before admissions is highly tilted to the rich and powerful and as Republicans very well know they religious right doesn't want to pay for other kids public education and they have been accommodated with vouchers and other opt outs for their own kids.
Taken in a vacuum this may well look like good policy. Taken for the reality, it's pure red meat for White Christians at the expense of the most vulnerable in our country.
24
Unfortunately there are a lot of people in this country that want a lot, the best of the best but don't want to pay for anything. Seems those are also the very people that want to make sure they don't have to compete with anyone other than those they consider worthy. As a result of wanting everything, not paying for much of anything and not having to compete with those that don't look like them, they demonize those who want the same thing as they do but are not as lucky.
4
Some opportunities are there to be won via skills, not the best sob story. I guess that is also a skill, but not one that is very disconnected from "wanting everything" but "not wanting to pay for it". In this case, the problem is people who are all these things AND refuse to work for the honor BEFORE it is bestowed. Instead, they complain to steal the honors right from kids who deserve it, kids who are even poorer. So much for that sob story.
Trump is wrong to take away second chances to minorities, at least it is something, a starting point and a building point. But you can't solve this problem at University level. I went to a prestigious American boarding school, mostly white students, we were all going to University. Down the road at the local, this was not the case for any color. Negative socioeconomic issues were enough to force the school to focus on 'crowd control' rather than education.
The point here is that education quality needs to be addressed , starting from kindergarten. American school education system is abysmal. The high school program is so inadequate that if you compare a British high school student( and this is a system that has its problems too) to an American high school student , the American ( unless they have done IB at a prestigious school) is more than 2 years behind. Are American children just not as smart as British children?
How can you expect a child who comes from nothing to become like a child who comes from everything. A suggestion is education equality, like in Scandinavia , the state system should be the system of choice for everyone and it should be excellent. Then we wouldn't need racial profiling just achievement profiles.
20
Perhaps the president should first try to level the playing field, so that America can truly be the land of opportunity. Eliminate legacy preferences, like the ones Trump and his family have benefited from. Don't hold your breath.
17
Why don't legacy preferences benefit people of color after 50 plus years of affirmative action? Are there no children of non-whites who have gone to elite colleges?
4
Has anything changed regarding Obama's diversity guidelines and scoring for air traffic controllers too? I'm personally confused about where affirmative action leaves off and where public safety takes precedence.
If there were no "guidelines" Issued by the Obama administration for air traffic controllers I think a lot of people would like to know that because that certainly not about college admissions. Put another way if, in fact, the Obama administration changed screening guidelines or scoring valuations for air traffic controllers I think that's a whole different issue than educational affirmative-action.
5
I am a college professor and this is ridiculous from many angles.
At private schools, the admission department is going to do due diligence to bring in all/any student who is going to successfully pay their obligations or add value to the university or college.
State schools are going to bring in a homogeneous student body that fits their initiatives (and have a positive payback).
Any admissions department can justify any criteria for admittance. This is such a non-issue.
4
Value to the university or college. So much for the sake of the student. We all really are just pawns, aren’t we.
8
Comments here suggest that under affirmative action the vast majority of African Americans have earned their spots in top schools. The recent release of data from Harvard clearly indicates otherwise. The vast majority of AA admits attended Harvard ONLY because of their race. Two thirds of these are economically well off.
If you defend affirmative action as it is actually practiced today, you are defending the use of race as the third most important factor in admissions.
25
Yes. As with a lot of things, some people have their own narrative. People who have benefitted from Affirmative Action know that they have to work harder, study more and do twice as much in order to stay in the position. It is very difficult to be in a position that some people think they were "given" something, while you are working extremely hard to show appreciation and that you belong.
I see Donald trump as an Affirmative Action President, remember how the right called Obama that? But honestly, trump was given the presidency by the electoral college despite not being qualified, not having any experience for the job, not being prepared and not willing to learn the job. He was given the position over a highly qualified, experienced, prepared, willing to do the work female. Females, white and black also benefited from Affirmative Action.
9
Weird I just hear that no one can understand how trump’s lawyer ever made it into Harvard because he didn’t deserve to, just as trump never should have been admitted to his college or George W Bush to Yale
4
Seriously, what are you smoking? The individuals who benefit from affirmative action have to work less hard than a white or Asian person to “achieve” the same as their white and Asian colleagues. That’s the whole issue with affirmative action
4
Affirmative action should continue d for admission to schools, but not for admission to colleges. College admission should be based purely on merit. Education up to high school should be free.College admission should be based on a nation-wide entrance examination. All students who need it should be given free extra coaching to pass the entrance examination, and they should be allowed to take the exam as many times as they want to.This will ensure that standards in the quality of graduates, and in the professions they enter, are maintained. Those who do not pass the college entrance exam should be given free training to qualify for entry into professions which do not require a college education.
10
Your idea is absolutely wrong. If do that, the United States will become China! Universities should have their own standards, their respective orientations, the diversity is the advantage of the United States!
4
@Phil shang: My suggestions do not restrict U.S. universities from having their own standards & orientations. Also, the purpose of the entrance exam I am suggesting is not to eliminate most of the applicants, as in China, where college seats are very limited. The U.S. has a very large number of colleges & universities, both private & public, with different standards & orientations. This will not be affected by a uniform requirement for admission based on merit. This is already being implemented by SAT & other such tests, Only, they need to be standardized & uniformly enforced by a national agency, not private companies as at present & continuously monitored by the agency, to adapt the exam to society's changing needs. In China, everything is controlled by the state, but in the U.S., this is is not the case. The press, the media, independent ad hoc groups, the judiciary& the legislature have the power to influence policy,unlike in China
To wit…the only way to address this ongoing problem is to do so not at the tail-end (college admissions) stage, but at the formative stage in development and education...pre-school, grammar school, middle school & high school...by changing the mindset of the teachers, administrators, students and PARENTS at the K-12 level…with emphasis on the PARENTS and families of the so-called "underrepresented” minorities.
If we don’t do this we'll only be perpetuating the same problem from one generation to the next, as we've been doing so "liberally" now for DECADES…only to have to deal with the exact same issue of demographic “underrepresentation” again and again down the road, i.e., at the "tail-end" (college admissions) stage.
>>> A similar issue now exists in NYC with regard to the highly selective specialized high schools. Mayor Di Blasio wants to eliminate the admissions test because of the “under-representation” of blacks and Hispanics (with a disproportionately high percentage of Asians).
With that said, there are many good colleges out there to choose from that are not necessarily “Harvard, MIT or Stanford”. The bottom line is that we must strive to maintain an arm’s-length standard that is objectively fair and impartial across the board, w/o modifying or "dumbing-down" the admission standards to accommodate individuals based on "race".
Reputation, quality and achievement are EARNED...not bestowed upon someone in the name of "equality" or “diversity”…Just my opinion.
21
I think affirmative action doesn’t really work. Instead, they should help qualified poor minorities financially and try to eliminate bias in admissions may be?
They should also perhaps not admit students because they have lots of money.
11
Well, Donald Trump and his Republican handlers want to make sure this country doesn't produce another Barack and Michelle Obama.
16
A worthwhile goal!
6
As a leftist, let me say thank god for that.
3
What an insult to the Obamas to assume they needed AA to get into schools.
1
A difficult issue. Trump is a fool, of course. But polling indicates most conservatives believe in racial equality.
Notably, what I don’t see being addressed, regardless of constitutional constraints, is what works to promote opportunity independent of race. Noting the importance of early development (such as household exposure to a broad vocabulary) in school success; and the much higher rate of African Americans who begin college (often incurring debt) but do not finish, affirmative action at the college level is certainly a blunt instrument with at least one unintended negative consequence (debt). I wouldn’t suggest doing nothing to promote equality, but social support to get to graduation is much needed. As is some means to avoid debt for those unlikely to complete. I’m not up on the totality of evidence regarding what is truly effective. The entrenched nature of the problem, apart from outright racism, suggests this issue could easily take 2-3 generations if effective strategies are identified and implemented now, even though the problems arising from inequality are truly urgent.
7
As one affected by AA, I believe there is nothing more racist than AA, there is no bigger hypocrisy than believing it is not racist, and there is nothing more insidious than arguing there is no hypocrisy.
Kudos President Trump, for pulling America to the modern era -- Affirmative Action has no place in it, only merit and diligence.
36
As one who benefitted from Affirmative Action by way of a spouse, I can attest to my spouse having worked extremely hard and diligently to do his job and was quite successful at it. I can also attest to how the company wasn't prepared for his success and in several situations did not acknowledge his accomplishments in the same manner as they did his white counterparts.
What was racist was not giving minorities the opportunities in the first place. Affirmative Action would never had been needed if people were treated fairly and by merit. White males always had that opportunity. Now that they have to compete with minorities and women, they feel cheated. Well, welcome to the world white males created.
6
Typical. One minority gets let in the door via AA and then wants to shut the door to those behind them.
2
Affirmative action is literally putting people on a different playing field
1
A good school would automatically opt for diversity. Why even bother with any school that does not?
9
Why care about diversity or the lack of thereof!
4
This country is browning. There's no stopping it. The continent now known as the Americas was first populated by people of color. Centuries of influx by non-indigenous people doesn't change that. No amount of affirmative action reversal or other recalcitrance will change the tide of history.
12
For precisely this reason affirmative action should be ended. When people of color become majority minority in this country, affirmative action as it is now would simply be an act of the tyranny of the majority.
9
To millions of Americans, race-and-ethnicity-based efforts at Affirmative Action are offensive to an American ideal of race-blindness before the law. To others, they’re offensive to racist attitudes. To yet others, they’re basically unfair, in that for every individual who gets a leg up, someone who otherwise would have gotten preferment didn’t; and the basis for that decision usually isn’t demonstrable superior merit but complexion.
Apart from racism, I share all those basic objections to Affirmative Action. However, as a Republican I’ve always supported it despite those objections because I know racism to be real and pervasive in America, and because I’m no brighter that MANY people who have struggled with a way of improving educational outcomes in America among our non-white communities that DOESN’T involve some form of preference, and that also is actionable – and who have failed.
I understand the motivations of those who decry Affirmative Action. I agree with most of them. But I see no alternative to it in achieving a broader social “fairness” for our non-white kids in the teeth of what remains a deeply entrenched and destructive American racism.
9
My advice to Afro-American leaders is to not take the bait. Fact is affirmative action policies like these benefit a very small number of black students at the elite private and public colleges and grad schools. These student will do well wherever they end up.
Meanwhile, the black community bears the brunt of broad resentment over the policy while gaining very little in return.
Better to target arguments towards more federal funding for community colleges, state colleges, and online training programs. These will benefit vastly more black students than affirmative action at elite schools.
I know it's for our leaders to maintain their cool. The reality is that after many years affirmative action of this type has run its course. Now is the time to redirect the black community to a policy option with more bang for the buck.
24
Good point. There are many alternatives to elite colleges and students are beginning to realize this according to recent news reports.
5
Quite frankly I would never listen to you. You seem to assume that minorities are incapable of competing on the same level as a white person and that is just flat out WRONG!!! And there in lies the problem. A lot of white people think that way and think blacks can never compete with a white person. I think it is a way for white people to not have to compete with someone who doesn't look like them because some just can't handle an intelligent, confident, assertive, hard working people who may be more intelligent or accomplished than they are. THAT was a big part of the reason so many people hated Barack Obama and the highly educated, qualified, experienced, hard working minorities that showed the world they were no different than a white man doing the same thing. I believe that it is also a reason why trump got so much support. The most unqualified, inexperienced, unprepared white man could do the same job better than any black person. EPIC FAIL, but a lot refuse to admit it.
3
One of the most level-headed comments I have read on this thread. I, for one, still like the concept of affirmative action as long as it primarily focuses on kids who overcame actual poverty, and when it is about race, it is only about a seat given to a poor urm with absolutely identical academic qualifications or better than the kid who would otherwise have gotten in.
1
Reading the comments, I can not help but think: where is the common goal, dream, or vision for this country? Blacks fight Asians. Asians fight Whites. Whites fight Latinos ... All races are trying to benefit by beating other races. Is this America? Or has America always been like this?
12
Welcome to the world of identity politics, it is in the DNA of modern grudge liberalism. My favorite is when they call me a privileged white man while knowing nothing about my background or the road I travelled. I almost feel sorry for the way they always require a perpetual state of victimhood. I did say almost.
38
To be a white male is de facto white privilege. Period. Rich or poor, white skin will always put one first in line. One can change rich or poor, but you can’t easily change skin color and the immediate bias against people of color.
It's called Divide-and-Conquer and people don't seem to realize it.
5
If, and only IF, every student in the US received the same good educations as those living in high-income areas then the race-blind approach would work. But with this ignorant, and incompetent Russian puppet at the helm that is impossible. The proof is in his progeny: small-brained, no sense of decency and hypocrites.
10
At the elite schools, Harvard for example, what is taking place is affirmative action for whites. Asian kids are getting knocked down on the fudge factor called ‘personality’ to effectively quota them at 20%.
20
You can focus on Harvard and Yale all you want. Most Americans go to State Colleges. Most State colleges are reducing in State admissions because they get much higher tuition from out of the Country and out of State students.
If you go to a graduating class at many state schools they are loaded with Asian, Indian's and kids from all over the globe. A good percentage of them aren't American kids at all.
Admissions is often based on what you can charge a student and has little to do with diversity.
8
Keeping America White as possible. Next Separate But Equal rears its ugly head.
11
I'm so tired of the whiny privileged white boy complaining about how affirmative action provides the poor with an unfair advantage.
17
Just like the rest of us are so tired of whiny identity-obsessed people who make everything about "race" and everyone who doesn't agree a "racist". Privilege is a reality of life. If you don't like it, work hard and earn your own privilege.
NOT THE POOR!!! it provides certain people -- mostly wealthy and privileged -- like the Obama's -- with a preference based on skin color -- when they are wealthier and MORE privileged than most white people.
Do you favor policies that judge people based on the color of their skin? Yes or no. I don't.
24
Yes.
1
Enjoy being on the wrong side of history Rm. Fortunately, Neanderthals like yourself are slowly dying off, leaving a more woke populace in its place.
This is super cool, back to basics and no more discrimination. How exciting can you get!!! There are tons of smart kids in each ethnicity and a "leg up" from Nanny State - is not needed. In fact it just make it worse. Another step toward sanity and away from political correctness. Many thanks!
15
If economic opportunity and high-quality education were available to all citizens, the need for affirmative action programs would evaporate.
8
I am the father of two highly-educated and successful white males who are now in their twenties. My sons had no legacy of white privilege. In fact similar to the Asian students they experienced discrimination which they overcame by discipline, hard work and passion for life. I am proud of their success and the success of their multi-racial peers. The facts are there are fewer good jobs today and far stronger competition for these jobs. Global competition and technology efficiencies have reduced economic opportunities for everyone and we all feel pinched. We need to focus on advancing the economic interests of all of our children and not penalize any children for the sins of their forefathers.
24
White privilege is built-in, so your sons overcame your own experience in life, but it doesn’t mean they didn’t benefit from being white. Light skin = don’t have anything to worry about; brown skin = follow them to make sure they don’t steal anything.
6
Trump is driven by racial animus. Didn't he say "that he would be good for the blacks?" He sure has a unique way of demonstrating his concern for our nation's minorities. But when you look at it, what did anyone expect? Trump, since the Central Park Five Case, openly exhibited a deep and searing racial hatred. This gesture helps to cement those feelings among his base. Just like what he did with his racially-charged accusations about Obama's birth certificate. Prejudice is a learned trait, and Trump learned much from his father, Fred, who was arrested at a Klan rally in the 1920s. As they say, the apple never falls far from the tree.
14
If you want to see the new Harvard freshman class, just look at the National Merit Scholarship winners for your state.
Hint: lots of immigrant kids.
11
When my niece graduated high school -- a public high school in an affluent exurb -- in 2014 -- at the ceremony, I read over the list of names of the kids who got the academic awards, scholarships, the Valedictorian, etc. They were mostly RUSSIAN last names, except a handful of INDIAN and ASIAN names. Not one name that was white American/European -- not one. And the median household income in this area is over $100K, which is very high for the Midwest.
Wonderful. Let’s lessen our regulatory and bureaucratic massive burdens and stop stretching the law for political purpose. Let meritocracy Return.
21
Return from what? This country has never been a meritocracy.
Everybody loves to argue about race, gender, and religion, so Trump and his political advisors will make sure he keeps stirring the pot with one or more of those topics that people have strong opinions about and will never agree on. This change-back in "guidance" to college admissions officers amounts to little or nothing. It doesn't change the laws or past Supreme Court rulings about affirmative action admissions policies. But it gets headlines and lots of columnists and TV talking heads will pile on. Trump will use it to throw red meat to his base at his next rally. What about that "better, cheaper" healthcare system for "everybody" we still don't have? Whatever happened to that infrastructure plan, with thousands of good-paying jobs?
3
Affirmative Action has been place for many decades now, yet it has not resulted in a closing of the gap. Why? Could it be that moving the goalposts doesn't improve the individual, even if it makes it more likely that they reach the goal?
While it may have made sense at one point in time to have affirmative action, clearly it isn't addressing the root of the problem. While many commenters here have implied that economic inequality is at the root of the issue, studies have shown that shifting to a socio-economic form of affirmative action would still result in the same racial disparities we would see in a race-blind system.
Additionally, it should be noted that many whites reside in poor, rural areas of the country with subpar educational resources. So why should urban minorities be given preferential treatment when the SAT and ACT are scored by computers with no notion of race or ethnicity?
It's also importation to talk about the elephant in the room. Certain groups in the US are statistically more likely to have large numbers of children, children out of wedlock and children born to young parents. All of those things put those children at a disadvantage by reducing the resources each of those children have. There's still work to do to overcome racism certainly, but it's also the responsibility of minority groups in the US to put themselves and their children in a position to be successful rather than expecting someone to rescue them.
23
Face palm.
Thanks for the eloquent response. It seems to be quite an accurate summation of the strength of your position.
Oh, Please! SOS from yet another person not of discernible color, crying about the easy bake oven of the browning of Americans via the icing of white-splaining and not being able to stop those cookies from baking darker than the dough that is going into our American oven of racial change. Baked correctly, all cookies are still delicious cookies!
2
Let's start the level ground policy by banning "legacy" admissions, those people admitted because their parents or grandparents went to the school or her parents or grandparents gave money to the school or the student or parents are celebrities or politicians. Then we can decided what to do with the rest of us. How about athletes? Do we take those who meet the minimum academic standards and play well or do we play with just those who make the SAT cut off? It's not simple to decide on the proper mix of people who should enter college. On the other hand, Donald is simple.
11
Maybe Trump will ask universities to ignore parents in admissions--no more legacy admissions--Trump would never have been accepted at Penn.
9
Great. Now legacy admission should be the next to go.
12
How about also ignoring if their parents attended (legacy admits) and if their parents have given money to the university?
11
Why the hysteria?
Obama's guidelines were simply a way to communicate to the education community that his Justice Department would not go after schools that followed them. The guidelines had no force of law, and they didn't protect anyone from civil action by states or private parties.
Obama changed Bush's guideleines. Now Trump is doing the same to Obama. Different administration, different guidelines. Vote in 2020.
10
Exactly. Nothing will change. Trump’s just doing this for his base, who think all their brilliant white kids will now be able get into Harvard.
Simple. Include socioeconomic factors and education obtained by parents as factors.
6
You’re onto something.
When discrimination against Jewish people was ended in university admission practises, it alllowed Jewish students to fully integrate and rise in society, which has benefited America. Now according to stats and scores the next demographic on the rise is Asians, and this too can benefit America if allowed. Asian culture is based on merit and the striving for excellence. In today's low performing status quo, how can this not be a good thing and influence?
I think diversity is a great and necessary thing, but for cultures, races and classes who don't perform as well, instead of lowering the bar for them, why not give them what they need to be able to thrive and complete legitimately? To say in 2018, Blacks and Hispanics need more allowances than other races just sounds like the enabling of cultural norms that overall aren't focused on high achievement, and that worship the ideal of victimhood. Not at all in line with Dr. King's dream or creed of charactor, not color being the point.
My final point is all this focus on specialty schools and Harvard is making misery out of not being chosen to attend. If all schools and universities were well funded, excellent, fun, safe, and had classes for high achievers would this really matter as much? The fight seems to be to stop the discrimination against high achieving Asians, which is great. We equally need to address the need of every student in finding a path forward, no matter what school, university, race or class they are from.
13
Jews, as a religiously and ethnically different group has always been discriminated against, has endured progroms, exclusions from mainstream society, the holococaust... and yet the Jews have always been successful academically and professionally, and have never had the reputation to be violent or disruptive. Some are going to say, it’s their culture... so maybe some cultures are better than others...
Many people think the Trump Administration is focused on reversing Obama Administration policies. As an 84 year old African American Minister who knew and marched with Dr. King, I am concerned that the Trump Administration is now focused on reversing many of the gains made during the Civil Rights Movement. It is time for those people who care about human rights to put pressure on their legislators to stop this assault on American Democracy and human freedom.
15
As long as there is residential segregation, AA is needed to level the playing field. These Neanderthals, however, do not seem to care about fairness.
9
fairness for who? descendants of 20th century immigrants/refugees who lived in poverty and war? rural and/or poor Americans? non-"minorities," like Asians? the young generation today who had nothing to do with what happened in previous centuries and generations? etc. Let's be open about who you're promoting fairness for. Because it's not a one-sided equation.
13
I thought it was pretty clear that I meant fairness for those who suffer from residential segregation.
Mostly, those are Black people, Indigeneous people, an Latinos who attend schools that do not prepare them to compete for college as well as all white suburban schools. This is a fact. I went to a school like that and could count on one hand the number of classes that were challenging.
I am being open: those who the law blatantly discriminated against for hundreds of years should receive affirmative action!!
The Democrats legacy of racism is alive and well!
19
LOL. Never thought the #Resistance could turn a new directive to be absolutely color-blind and race blind in college admissions into further "proof" a Nazi is in the White House. But I underestimated the rich imagination of the #Resistance.
10
Affirmative action: punishing Asians, Jews and high-performing whites for what whites did to blacks before 1970.
Affirmative action: committing injustice today to atone for historical injustice.
Instead of vindictiveness, let's adopt the wonderful MLK standard of NOT judging by the color of one's skin.
37
Where do you get “before 1970”? There is rampant discrimination in all aspects of American life, and if you’re white, you’re a beneficiary of it. Your refusal to acknowledge it, intentional or not, is racist.
11
You are only talking about less than 5% of all college admissions. Universities do consider rural applicants, realizing the lack of resources. In addition essays written, recommendations and other experiences. Not to mention, a 4.0 from one school is not equal to a 4.0 from another. There are huge disparities in primary education based on the wealth of communities.
1
You must have missed the white male legislature during the Obama administration.
2
Great move by the President. Turned out this Obama rule was only helping well to do foreigners not African Americans. Our college admission criteria should be based on merit not the color of ones skin.
15
Discrimination is illegal-unless you’re discriminating against an Asian. Then the Democrats love discrimination
37
Larry, you forgot the exclamation points on this one.
1
Larry, do you think Trump is doing this to help Asians?
Yes the president would like the colleges to discontinue
affirmative action admissions. So that more mediocre white students like him could gain admissions to these schools because of their families large contributions to the endowments. How else could he have gotten in to the
University of Pennsylvania? How come as a kid he didn't
go to a prestigious New England prep School?
17
After the 8 year Obama reign of terror its refreshing to have a color-blind President! President Trump’s kindness and decency truly represents the best of America!
15
LOL. The delusion is strong.
9
Ah, yes. We all lived in such fear under Obama that we elected him twice, while the Trump family systematically excluded blacks from any managerial position -- but did allow them to work as window washers and waiters.
And the refusal to rent apartments or, in some areas, sell homes to them was "grandfathered" into Trump leases and deeds.
Yes, color-blind to the extent that they saw no color but white !
7
Hawhawhah. dear leader has conned you good. Even his admin people say he is the meanest man they have ever met.
1
There should NEVER be a preference based on race, sex, religion 0r any other way of noting "WHAT" someone is. If their school record doesn't control who gets selected, the schools are not doing their job of helping qualified students. The practice still happening of choosing people based on skin color has had people totally unqualified to be in the school but they get a pass because they are "black", "White", "Hispanic", "Asian" or any other ethnic group.,
10
School records are not equal. Seriously. Have you even consider this? Student teacher ratios differ, access to current text books differ, libraries, internet access, and nearly everything is far from equal. Colleges do consider this for urban and rural applicants.
3
Enough is enough. As a parent of an Asian kid, I hate affirmative action. My kid is very smart academically and in activities outside school and a nationally ranked athlete. . If he was black or Hispanic he would get into all Ivy leagues, no question about it. But as an Asian, he may not get into any. Tell that to a 17 year old kid that spend years preparing for a good college, only to see peers with much lesser scores get in. This cradle to grave support of blacks and Hispanics need to stop. If you can’t make the sacrifices to get far in life then you don’t deserve it. Btw, schools in Newark, Nj spend a lot more per kid than most high achieving schools around it, more money on not the answer. Stop AA. Enough is enough.
68
"If you can’t make the sacrifices to get far in life then you don’t deserve it"
YES ! THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE SAID TO DONALD BACK IN THOSE DAYS.
NOW LOOK HOW FAR HE GOT AFTER MAKING ALL THOSE SACRIFICES.
1
This is not Scandinavia and we do not have "cradle to grave" support of any one group, well, except the super rich, through tax cuts and corporate welfare.
6
I would add that even if he were a similarly qualified white (i.e., non-legacy, same socioeconomic class as your son), he would have a significantly easier time than your son in getting admitted. It's one thing for race to be a plus factor in admissions, as it is with blacks; it's another for it be a minus factor compared to whites, as it is with Asians--this is just blatant racial discrimination.
Tonight they're gonna party like it's 1959.
5
If Trump hadn't been the son of a multimillionaire, he never would have been admitted to any respectable college. The man is a complete nincompoop. I can't wait for January 2025 when he is out of office.
5
So looks like you plan on his re-election.
6
Blind to race? Does that mean blind to white privilege? Will Wharton have to take back Trump's degree?
6
"White privilege" is an academic construct. Not saying it doesn't exist. Just saying it's not really relevant to anything outside the identity academic complex.
1
Finally! A president willing to accept a non racist agenda or quotas.
Thank you President Trump!
14
Affirmative action seems like a great idea. However, at many elite institutions, bigoted white people often assume that black and brown people got in because of the color of their skin rather than because of their hard work and intelligence. Ask a black ivy league grad how they were treated there.
Why not income-based affirmative action? I realize racism is real. How has affirmative action been working out so far to combat racism?
The problems with racial and income inequality is generally firmed up wayyy before college admissions. Grade schools! Liberal white people (most NYT readers) kill me with their support of affirmative action, as long as it doesn't affect their children. They are the first ones to move to all-white suburban districts.
10
Affirmative action, a "great idea," DOES admit black and brown people because of the color of their skin. It is a reasonable assumption!
Most Blacks who needed and were given racial preferences in order to attend top tier universities would have done much better at less demanding universities: see the book
Mismatch: How Affirmative Action Hurts Students It’s Intended to Help, and Why Universities Won’t Admit It by Richard Sander and Stuart Taylor Jr.
Affirmative Action is simply racial discrimination against whites and Asians, is unconstitutional and a direct violation of Title VI of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, and is essentially a pigmentation award especially for offspring of wealthy Blacks. It cheats better qualified Whites and Asians out of opportunities to succeed at top universities. It's past time for this injustice to end and it I expect that it will end under a Trump era SCOTUS.
21
How many Trump supporters do you really think there are that care about admissions at Berkeley or Harvard? There are more Black people in higher wage blue collar jobs now, then there have ever been. Ever. Racial tensions in cities seem to be at an all time low (unless you live in Boston, SF, Manhattan etc. because, ya know you look around and all you see are Asians and Whites... except of course in the tourist districts). Black blue collar workers and White blue collar workers car pool together, eat together, pray together, and very rapidly are moving into the same neighborhoods (we wave to each other)… and all these NYT readers live these angry sheltered lives continually categorizing people in the backs of their minds by race and gender and hating the White male category because of Harvard and Cal Tech admissions? Here’s a bit of advice: Let the numbers work themselves out, and when you lose your job or scholarship to an Asian woman because she is smarter and more capable than you are, you can come to middle class America (ugh), where we don’t care if you’re Black or White or Asian etc. were just glad you stopped by. Show some decency Dems and you can win back even the blue collar workers (no you can’t) who you hate so much.
15
This is about one thing for the administration: the Asian vote. They are focusing a lot on this which they hope can be a “win.”
6
Excellent point....and now the administration will definitely get the Asian vote. So many perceive themselves as victims of the Ivy League which they see as the only universities worthy of them.
2
this is trump, the president who recently called Community colleges 13th grade. He'd prefer we revert to serfs and lords
2
Good for Trump. Martin Luther King would agree. The racists would that we give minorities a crutch because they believe without the white man fixing the game, they cannot achieve on their own. Those days are over. The blacks can achieve as much as the whites. We are created equal. That was on the ballot. Trump won. Get over it.
11
Affirmative action isn't per se racist against Asians, but the way it is implemented it always is. What happens as we see from the data in the Harvard case is that the white people in charge essentially give up spaces earned by Asians to the under-represented minorities, so that it becomes much harder for an Asian than an equally qualified white (i.e., non-legacy, non-athlete) to be admitted. And the white admissions committee just sees an Asian face connected to some Asian stereotype, diminishing the accomplishments of Asian students, and doesn't see the individual, which is racist and demeaning.
For all the talk of Trump and the other Republicans being racist, the Harvard case has revealed how truly racist white liberals can be while maintaining a facade of being open minded and progressive. The white liberals are the ones who have done true harm to the Asian community by demeaning and depriving Asian children of meaningful, well earned opportunities that could affect their entire lives.
Asians, don't think that that the white Democrats are on your side. Look at De Blasio, trying to implement policies that cause real harm to Asians. Remember when white liberals joined blacks in picketing Asian grocers? White liberals only want to help minorities whom they feel superior to and who seem to be suffering the most; whites don't consider Asians such minorities, but only potential competitors and will throw them under the bus.
27
Nailed it! Thank you Alison.
9
Oh, so Harvard is a democratic school? Really ?
Beautiful summary. Can't agree more.
2
"Forward, into the past!!"
4
This is what the GOP Christian religious groups support who voted Trump in . Evangelicals and all religious groups who support Trump are really racking up the sins supporting this GOP. By having like minded GOP Supreme Court judges they will make a law and force the schools to allow only white rich kids in. Every day there is chaos and another sick bully law coming out of Trump lip service.
4
Black people are sent to prison at triple the rate of the black percentage of the US population. Given that fact, you either accept that people are inherently law-abiding because of their skin color, or that Americans prefer to jail black people because of their skin color. Everything else is just noise. Trump is rolling back progress and people who support him are complicit.
8
Another bit of obscure Trumpian ironic humor I expect from the man who gained his current position upon the basis of racist and sexist affirmative action.
It is almost as good as when he talks about "merit" as if he could pass an SAT in any of the following (assuming of course that he would bother to read the questions in the first place) : logic; English grammar; American history; understanding of scientific data; epistemology; morality and ethics; the American Constitution and on and on....
8
Oh, he does know the Constitution.
That's why he and Steve are trying to rewrite it.
2
If Trump thinks he's helping his voter base, probably not. This may result in Asians flooding into all the top schools, pushing out African Americans and Latinos, as well as Whites. The law of unintended consequences.
3
Why do prefer having Black and Latinos in top universities rather than Asians? Do you feel threatened? Rest assured I am not Asians, though I believe they are not treated quite fairly.
8
God forbid our best schools be flooded by the best, most deserving students. How perverted does someone need to be to want to commit fraud against poor immigrant American prodigies? Either you accept the most talented, diligent, creative students, or you are no longer the best schools.
2
Merit based collage admissions...This is what is best for the nation.
19
define merits
1
Read Valerie's comment below. Think about it.
1
You’re right. Collage admissions should only consider Modge Podge!
I think that ending affirmative action will be a completely reasonable thing to do --- that is, of course, once the US has ensured that low-income minority students get a K-12 education that is equal to that enjoyed by others, and once other systematic barriers of discrimination against them and their families have been removed.
Oh, and it will also be fine to end affirmative action once universities stop giving preferences to athletes, celebrities or children of celebrities, alumni children, and children of donors.
I assume that Asian students will no longer be subjected to personality tests to get in? That would be nice, regardless.
It is so wrong that the students most in need of a boost are the first ones to have it taken away. It is also so wrong that "personal responsibility, fair play" types in the Republican party will keep a death grip on the rope of preferential treatment for their children and spouses (e.g. Pruitt's wife and her franchise/job search) while kicking others to the curb.
And yet this behavior is so typical. Special treatment is only for the ones in power.
17
Touching third rails only seems to energize Trump even more. Then we have to go and grab him and we’re what’s attached to ground. Shocking.
1
Part of me agrees with the effort to do away with affirmative action, because it IS a form of discrimination. Another part of me looks at the issue of systemic racism, as practiced by our very own President in his real estate business by not renting to blacks.
6
What keeps racism alive more than making sure everyone knows what category they’re in. The last thing we’d hate to see happen is for people to forget what they are.
4
The most interesting aspect of the affirmative action debate is that anyone would find it a good idea to solve one problem by creating another.
So much for "the means must justify the end."
7
As an Asian-American student who is currently applying to college, it’s frightening and disheartening to know that my race and culture is going to affect my chances of acceptance.
I wholeheartedly support greater diversity in higher education, but I’ve never seen affirmative action as the solution. Affirmative action is inherently discriminatory; we should be looking at our students solely through merit to be truly fair.
Affirmative action is not an effective solution since it doesn’t address why these minority students can’t compete against white or Asian students in the first place. Surely there is a cultural aspect to it, but we need to focus on improving education in lower income cities and addressing the socio-economic gap among these different racial groups.
30
You can’t measure merit, because public school funding is based on community wealth. A 4.0 from a rural school is not the same as a 4.0 from a Catholic school,4.0 from a poor urban school or a 4.0 from an upperclass suburban school. Many sports and extra curricular activities are a consideration in admissions, but one typically has to afford them. In addition GPA is not a sole predictor of scholarly success.
3
But people need basic elite skills to survive and thrive in elite university settings. You and I couldn't survive the first performance with the Joffrey ballet tomorrow if they decided they need another JRoebuck or 000-222. They train for YEARS on top of immense talent. Same for the NFL. Same for top performers in academia. What makes you think competition with American and international geniuses is any less of a monumental challenge? One kid my year in school memorized a 650-page Encyclopedia overnight. Okay? Word for word. Another built a complex machine the size of a sofa, also overnight, but entirely out of candy. A frat boy was certified fluent in 7 languages and proficient in another dozen. He submitted his senior thesis in a medieval dead language no one on the faculty knew well enough to grade, so he was asked to re-submit it in English or German. Measure THAT merit. And this was still considerably toned down from meritocratic high schools, which are crazier. You can't catch up to this level over 1 summer of enrichment. You have to be born with it and also train for YEARS.
2
There never was a consitutional right for educational institutions to discriminate. "Affirmative action" is a term the left had to invent to try and put a positive spin on another transparant trope :"diversity".
The SCOTUS UT decison went 5-4 in favor of the school. That decision's days are numbered. Harvard's discrimination against Asians is working its way through federal court and will inevitably go to SCOTUS. The addition of strict constituionalists like Gorsuch and the one to come will sound the death knell for a practice that is so repugnant to the Constitution as to border on obscene.
17
Maybe Trump himself could become 'race blind'?
4
I'd believe the tRump administrations rationale for "race-neutral" admissions policies if they also included getting rid of legacy admissions at these same elite colleges.
That would free up easily 10-30% of all the available incoming spots for others who do deserve to be there, no matter their background.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/06/harvards-incoming-class-is-one-third-leg...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_preferences
9
It is interesting that someone like Trump, who benefited from being privileged to avoid fighting in the Vietnam War by getting deferments 4 times is saying affirmative action is unfair. I actually wonder what the difference between his deferments and affirmative action is.
10
US universities are very expensive. I think this is even more harmful to the fair chance of education.
7
The people who voted for this will suffer the most. Who among the southern science hating true believers will benefit from merit based admission? It benefits only the hard working coastal Asian population, unfairly denied admission based on their race. Fine by me- I was considering switching my son's white middle name with his Asian last. No need now!
7
After 50 years of Affirmative Action its time to recognize that it has caused more problems than it solved. It hasn't appreciably helped the racial minorities that it was designed to help, but has created significant animosity between races. And now it is even pitting minority groups against each other. It is time to focus on getting back to a merit based society that rewards people for their skills, intelligence, and efforts, and not the color of their skin.
29
Only having to continually apply affirmative action only proves it’s not doing what it’s supposed to, like you said. Time to let the wound have some air and sun, hard as that may come for those who like to nurse them.
2
I am just waiting to read the post that purports that Obama attended top universities not based on merit but on a seat stolen from a white or Asian applicant. I have a hard time understanding how Asians are being discriminated against in higher education admissions. They are ~5% of the U.S. population yet they are the most OVERREPRESENTED ethnic group at Harvard, Yale, Princeton etc. where they comprise anywhere from 19%-35% of the undergraduate body. How are these students disadvantaged? How much is enough? 95%? 100%?
2
When did America have this merit based society that rewarded people for their skills, intelligence, and efforts, and not the color of their skin? I must have missed it.
8
This will increase Asian-American enrollment significantly. The share of whites getting into college will likely decrease, as Asians are by far the most advanced group academically.
11
What I don’t get is why kids who are already so smart even need to go to college. We seem like we’re wasting an awful lot on the wrong people.
1
Not if you count Jewish kids as white. Most are white-passing. Their best would easily overtake many of the spots currently doled out to the underqualified, as long as they refrain from sending morons like Jared Kushner.
1
Can you possibly think what you are writing? Intelligent needs to be stimulated, nurtured and developed!
We've bent over backwards so far that we now have less qualified persons of color getting the jobs that more qualified white people should have had, based on their professional and school accomplishments and records. That's not fair, either. I cannot tell you all the times my well qualified and hard working white students have been passed over for jobs and scholarships because they were the wrong color.
20
You assume because a white applicant was denied, they must of been more qualified than the person of color that was accepted? That’s interesting, please expand on that thought.
3
I hope you are being sarcastic
You think that qualified Asian-Americans (including Indian-Americans and Chinese-Americans) could now get admitted based on merit and hard work? Without having race quotas to deal with? A meritocracy. Quite exciting.
30
Affirmative action is imperfect. However so is the bias given to athletes, the wealthy, alumni and even men...yes men who apply to liberal arts colleges at a 40/60 ratio to women (30/70 for African American men).
Colleges and universities need the flexibility to build their classes. These need to be more open and transparent, however, if we seriously want to address inequalities in the US we need to invest in leveling the playing field in PreK-12 and supporting public schools and universities. We did this once. We need to do it again.
6
I grew up in a then rural county in NYS.
When i graduated from high school in 1960, NYS had a college scholarship program.
Applicants took the NYS scholarship exam.
Each county had a certain number of scholarships based on the county's population.
I won one.
If I had to compete statewide I would not have won because students attending NYC schools [which had not yet collapsed] would have outscored me on the exam.
But race and gender were NOT factors in awarding the scholarships.
Was this discrimination or affirmative action.
Was it just trying to adjust for different high school backgrounds.
5
A large percentage of people whom this benefits did not come out to vote in 2016. Elections have consequences.
How do you know this?????
Supporters of affirmative action speak glowingly of something called "diversity." But in practice it appears that essentially only two groups add to diversity —blacks and Hispanics. First-generation. Greeks, Italians Russian Jews, Irish, Turks, Egyptians, and Iranians are classified by universities as white and hence do not contribute to diversity. On the other hand, a third-generation Mexican-American contributes mightily to diversity, even if he does not speak a word of Spanish and is culturally indistinguishable from his "white" neighbors. So great is this diversity-bearing power of Hispanic ancestry that even those with only one Hispanic parent or grandparent are said to make a student body more diverse and for this reason should be admitted on a preferential basis. Can anyone explain to me why this is a sensible policy?
33
AA was intended to remedy racism and discrimination against black citizens who had been the targets of government sanctioned discrimination. Jim Crow, legal segregation, discrimination in housing and of course, education, were targeting blacks, not Asians, Indians, Hispanics or any other group that immigrated to the U.S. As it turns out, diversity has been broadened to include all these other groups that have made their way to U.S. shores. Blacks are still suffering the ills of past legal and sanctioned discrimination. There is still a need for AA since other groups including whites females have taken advantage of these programs which were intended to help blacks.
3
I always was surprised that in the USA so many different minorities bunched together just by race when they are very diverse themselves.
5
if he thinks this is going to mean more fifth and sixth generation immigrants' descendants from pale-skinned countries are going to be admitted, he should think again.
But it's just a white whistle for his base.
I have noted for many decades that the class valedictorians, the winners of academic prizes tend to have surnames suggesting they come from darker skinned/ Asian countries.
Often, it seems, their parents were immigrants. It makes sense.
People come to America because if their children study hard and work hard, they can succeed.
Many paler students view High School as a time to socialize, enjoy their youth, not spend all day after school hitting the books. They prefer socializing and sports to science clubs and math clubs and computer programming classes.
They assume they know English and, not having studied as a foreign language, meaning correct grammar, spelling, their writing, and I've witnessed it as a college English prof to both the children of immigrants and Euro-American kids, is atrocious. It's conversational, at tweet or text level. The grammar is bad, the punctuation is worse and spelling is left to spellcheck .
Not poorly educated, poorly motivated. Many don't sense the tremendous competition for grades that many many new American youths do.
One can get to be president not knowing math, science, having a fifty word working vocabulary, unable to write compound complex sentences, formulate and organize arguments.. . but colleges don't favor it.
4
There are " pale" immigrants as you call us you know. And our kids also are quite hard working successful... but white. I'm for meritocracy, even if it benefits people of not my own race: let ones who deserve it win.
3
Another Obama policy bites the dust. It is unfortunate that Obama did not address the practice of little rich boys like Donald and Jared having their admission into college greased by a hefty monetary donation from their respective fathers. Once in, neither was considered a stellar student. Whatever exposure Trump had to higher learning obviously did not “take.” Too funny that he describes the four conservative Supreme Court puppets he has interviews as “very academic” since he always th! tweets to his base that a top university education is overrated since it was granted by a liberal venue. Guess there are limits as to how many cons have the qualifications for Liberty University.
6
Special consideration based on race should only be discontinued when special consideration based on income or legacy are also discontinued. As it is now, it is still possible to buy your way into a university (see Donald Trump and Jared Kushner), or to get favored admission if you are from a legacy family. End those entitlements, and then let’s talk about race-based affirmative action.
11
This is what Trump means when he says 'Make America Great Again."
It is conservative code for "Make America White Again."
Drip drip, Like a leaky pipe, we are slowly returning to the country we were for decades before 1964.
Not baking cakes for gay rights weddings by a public retail store is no different than not serving blacks at a public lunch counter in Alabama in the 50s.
This is no different. It is not doing what our Constitution demands. It is not Promoting a more Perfect Union for We the People; just some of the people, white people as it was in 1787.
Ignoring the realty of racism today is no different than it was back then which is why we have things like Affirmative Action. This country needs Affirmative Action because we have historically proven we don't act as a nation like we preach we do. All of us, white, black, brown, yellow and red need it whether we like it or not.
It is a matter of this country putting its money where its mouth is, like it or not.
So much for the spirit and intent of the Constitution. Dump it. It means nothing unless you are white.
Police brutality to young black men, separation from kids from Latino mothers, inequality in education, in pay and by sex or sexual persuasion. That is what going back to the past means,
If that is what the majority of Americans want to continue we can simply vote for those in the Party of Trump in November. That will make America racially divided again one Executive Order and judge at a time.
8
You have to wonder where should the line be drawn?
Should all students of color be accepted to college?
I'm guessing not. But I'm sure some people do.
On many of these issues, I find myself in the sensible middle.
I'm not racist like the Trump folks and I also don't believe 'reverse racism' is a step in the right direction either.
I would like to know where the middle on this issue should be by polling Americans. I'm not sure I trust either party as they are both so extreme!
4
Thank you, President Trump for erasing nearly all the executive actions and legacy of Obama that drove us apart.
12
That’s right, HozeKing, because that’s all that matters: erasing Obama’s legacy! That’s really what this is all about for those who think Trump is Christ come again for the white working class. It isn’t about bringing people together, it’s about kicking in the shins of people whom Trump’s base disliked in the first place, starting with our 44th president.
6
Race-based affirmative action is an idea which is now obsolete.
Affirmative action based on economic class is a viable idea.
Under race-based affirmative action, the daughters of Barack and Michelle Obama could benefit.
The daughter of a white cafeteria worker, in contrast, would remain marginalized.
No tears should be shed for race based affirmative action.
The time for affirmative action based on economic class is long overdue.
40
Affirmative action is meant to assist students who face hardships. I believe affirmative action is something that should remain, but should be removed is the racial tie-ins.
10
Many of the arguments presented in favor special dispensations to Black students are based on past wrongs to prior generations. While not in any way meaning to denigrate that history, I fail to see why special dispensation should be given to the current generation.
11
Same reason special “dispensation” is given to the current generation of black kids to enter prisons.
In order to stop racial discrimination we have to stop discriminating based on race. Seems simple enough to me.
25
For the affirmative action supporters, I would like to hear from them when do they see an end to affirmative action. Specific answers. Not general concepts like " when there is equality in our society". As an Asian American, affirmative action was always used against me by taking away opportunities I was otherwise qualified for. So I am very interested in the answer.
38
By now you have probably noticed that the pejorative, "racist" is ill-defined as well. It's become a specious allegation used so often that it is has lost its effect. When everyone who is a republican is racist, no one is. Time to define that term as well.
Race wars have always existed in America, but documenting it paints a chilling picture of the inhumanity this country has sanctioned within its borders, while proclaiming itself to be a beacon of freedom to the world.
In 1969, Kevin Phillips wrote, "The Emerging Republican Majority," which outlined the Southern Strategy. It predicted a conservative realignment based on racism. The Southern vote would offset the Northeast. Republicans would never need more than 10% - 20% of the black vote, because the more blacks filled Democratic ledgers, the more whites would join the Republican party.
Starting in 1979, the Moral Majority created a right-wing fundamentalist voting bloc. Opposing the Civil Rights Movement, they inserted their social, religious and racist agenda into legislation, which elected members of school boards, state legislatures, the House of Representatives, the Senate, and President Ronald Reagan.
Those elected officials redrew state districts that guaranteed Republican majorities in blatant acts of gerrymandering.
Trump is building on these events, with such things as reversals on affirmative action and appointing cabinet appointees who deny racism exists. Hiss main goal is to enable and uphold white supremacy, and he is winning.
People ask, "How did we get here?" We didn't get here. We were always here.
9
Discrimination is illegal. Affirmative action can be discriminatory. Affirmative action need to be applied selectively. It may needto stop. Is this the time to stop, maybe yes maybe no. Is diversity a benefit. Yes. Is diversity a worthy goal. Not if it results in discrimination.
11
Without these diversity programs in place, there are plenty of admissions officials out there who could turn to discriminating based on student names and hometowns to deny minority students. Until we can eliminate bias, which will never happen, protections regarding race are critical.
4
AA hurts as much as it helps. Gladwell has written much on this. Its implementation went overboard in that unqualified applicants were considered and accepted. In a trusting society, we would tweak it. Unfortunately we will keep tossing it back and forth between the right and left. Hopefully in the meantime, well-minded people can focus on the early education programs that make the difference. Incrementalism in the face of injustice is hard, but its the right play.
8
This American beauty coming from the leader of an administration that is chock full of wealthy conservatives is not surprising. Race-based affirmative action has always been somewhat effective, somewhat flawed and very controversial. Yes, we must diligently monitor its effects to ensure efficacy and fairness. However, in a nation that is exceptional for its great wealth and Income inequality, a “mend it, don’t end it” approach is needed. Race should be a factor in considering school and college admissions. The elimination of race as a factor in school and college admissions would increase poverty among minorities and related social problems at a great cost to our societal stability and further widen the wealth and income inequality gap as minorities disproportionately fill the lower rungs of our socioeconomic ladder. We do need to find constitutionally acceptable and effective ways to compensate whites and Asians who are unintentionally victimized by this necessary form of social engineering. Finally, it is clear to me that living wages and free public college education are two progressive measures that would solve much of this and other class-related problems.
4
Excellent analysis!
1
When not considering race ( a human construct ) for admissions into higher education, one is continuing the systematic racism ( just like redlining ) that held back minorities since time ( another human construct ) began.
This country ( nor the world ) is not going to be taken back to the 50's. That could be the 1950's or 1850's. It is merely another temporary pain that we must put up with until we can take back power and the country once again for a time of Progress and equality.
A change is gonna' come.
11
I grew up a poor white kid in a rich community. I faced discrimination socially and academically often throughout my childhood. I didn’t get the benefit of test prep or even new clothes, as my parents were struggling just to put food on the table. I took my SATs with no test prep other than what I could find at the library and no one could tell me what to expect because I had few friends and they were in the same situation as me. I did not have the benefit of affirmative action to help me because of my race. While I understand the ideals of affirmative action, I can’t help but feel like the system was rigged against me. I didn’t choose to be poor, just as I didn’t choose my race. I have no “white privilege” even though I am often told that. I had to fight my way out of poverty to be barely lower middle class and am still fighting. What about us? I know there are so many just like me.
78
The Democrats rigged the system against you because of slavery. By benefiting someone who never was a slave at the expense of someone who never owned a slave-you- the Democrats can right the wrongs!
7
Does it make you feel like a decent human being to make this dogmatic accusation? Ridiculous and divisive. So tiring, to see these one line black and white statements.
2
This should help energize the evangelical white female and male vote, which is his core
Watch for the conservative courts to look at exceptions to integrating parochial schools and colleges under religious freedom.
5
The whole dynamic underlying improving race relations changed 180 degrees, and no one had the guts to acknowledge it.
The moral victories of the 60s arose from color blind arguments. They were extremely compelling, and sent the racists into retreat, precisely because they exalted the individual and not his race.
Then came "race consciousness", involving distinguishing individuals' treatment by race, all in the name, ostensibly, of equal treatment. All the liberal organizations and thinkers of the 70s and thereafter relegated color-blindness to pie in the sky, by and by ("oh sure, color blindness is a wonderful ideal to aspire to, but in the meantime and until the Second Coming, we need racial preferences").
Nobody bought it and most of us felt we had been sold a bill of goods. If the victories of the 60s had been obtained honestly, proponents would have said "in the name of racial justice, we need to favor blacks now". Wouldn't have gotten many votes, but it would have been honest.
It got to the point several years ago when our dear Governor Jerry Brown, then Attorney General, sued to invalidate Proposition 209 on the ground that race-neutral admissions *violated* the Equal Protection Clause! That kind of rhetorical legerdemain was contemptible.
It left me, and many others, feeling as though we had entered an Alice in Wonderland world, where words mean exactly what the speaker chooses them to mean--no more, no less.
21
We are living in that world.
Trump does it every day.
And Trump is "The least racist (or sexist) person you will ever meet"?
If you believe that, I am Santa Claus and Jeff Sessions wants to step down as Attorney General and run for president of both the ACLU and the NAACP.
Trump and Sessions can't tolerate the fact that women and people of color deserve to be in any role of power. It was ok when they were barefoot and pregnant, housemaids, ran the local dry-cleaners or were janitors. Now that they are standing toe to toe with white men they represent an existential threat.
As an old white guy, I find their position reprehensible and embarrassing. Why would you not want everyone to have the same opportunities that us white men have benefited from for years/centuries/millennia? Isn't the US the land or equal opportunity? Not under Trump.
9
Deserve? If you mean by virtue of competence and achievement, then yes, deserve.
5
So will Trump and his followers continue to support this change when Asians gain at the expense of whites as well as blacks and hispanics?? If the recent Harvard investigation is any indicator, if based on merit, the % of Asians in the entering freshman class would leap from the current 19% to 43% while the % of other races (including whites) would decline.
8
Exactly what I was thinking. This fact will send Trump and his supporters into apoplectic fits
2
Good for Asians. Why are you against Asians.
6
Yes, they will because they will realize Asians earned their spots. This is the point AA-advocates refuse to acknowledge. Merit is something that most Americans understand intuitively. AA is something that contradicts it and why AA is so disliked.
2
So will Trump and his followers continue to support this change when Asians gain at the expense of whites as well as blacks and hispanics?? If the recent Harvard investigation is any indicator, if based on merit, the % of Asians in the entering freshman class would leap from the current 19% to 435 while the % of other races (including whites) would decline.
3
Trump attacks affirmative action as the weak link in minority rights, arousing his white base. Affirmative action is a false flag for minorities, allowing individuals selected by white institutions special entry. Martin Luther King believed in raising the entire black community economically, socially, and politically. Teaching at an urban majority minority public school, I heard many kids reject working hard at school as “acting white.” While I talked up education and going out into the mainstream world, I understood their loyalty to family, friends, and neighborhood. Going to college meant abandoning everything they knew and loved for the “white” economy and suburbs. I’m Asian, opposed to those Asian organizations that fight affirmative action from the right, wanting to displace black and Latinos from elite schools. They don’t get that Asians owe the black civil rights movement for breaking white supremacy for us as well. Let Trump spend time demolishing affirmative action and fight for black, Latino, Asian, and Muslim communities as a whole—civil rights, voting rights, education, due process, health care, housing, and most of all respect.
3
To wit…and IMHO…the only way to address this perpetually ongoing problem is not at the tail-end (college admissions) stage, but at the formative stage in development and education...grammar school, middle school & high school...by changing the mindset of the teachers, administrators, students and PARENTS at the K-12 level…with emphasis on the PARENTS and families of the so-called "underrepresented” minorities.
If we don’t do this we'll only be perpetuating the same problem from one generation to the next, as we've been doing so "liberally" now for DECADES…only to have to deal with the exact same problem of demographic “underrepresentation” again and again down the road, i.e., at the "tail-end" stage (college admissions).
[A similar issue now exists with regard to regarding the highly selective specialized high schools in NYC in which Mayor De Blasio is on the verge of eliminating the admissions test due to the “under-representation” of blacks and Hispanics (with a disproportionately high percentage of Asians at the ).
With that said, there are many good colleges out there to choose from that are not necessarily Harvard, MIT or Stanford. The bottom line is that we must maintain a certain standard that is objectively fair and impartial across the board, w/o modifying or "dumbing-down" the admission standards to accommodate individuals based on "race". Just my opinion.
7
A diverse student body is a healthy learning environment.
Nevertheless, there should be room for academic excellence and merit based programs.
I have never heard of any university (Univ. of Wisc. and Michigan are 5% black/African American) with a small minority population screaming for more short Asians for their basketball or football teams. Those schools want to win and push for athletic excellence at the expense of diversity.
8
I went to school, then college, then grad school in a non diverse environment (in Europe some 35/40!years ago). I believe I didn’t miss out on much. Why this obsession with diversity?
3
Schools will likely not act on Trump's message; why would they? . . . Just about everything out of the guy's mouth is useless re formulating any sort of policy. . . .
Watch out for Betsy, though; she's equally as immoral, disingenuous and vile. . . She has more of a personal agenda as well.
8
Toward what end? Really. Think about it for moment. What is the payoff for this policy? What payoff for whom? This policy would assure that all spaces at all top universities went to the children of the very rich--forget about race for a moment. It's about oligarchy. The admissions would go to mostly white rich kids, who have attended posh private schools, with infinite resources most regular public school kids could only dream of? And then, what's the payoff to having our top universities full of the very rich, very white, who have never met or gotten to know, or interacted with anyone other than their social or financial equal? ...who have never been exposed to people of color? Or also, do all the public universities in CA therefore become all Asian? I mean, what is the payoff of non-diversity? Ask yourself this. It's not about fairness. It's about shutting out the middle class, the poor, the first generation immigrants, and anybody who doesn't look like the lily-white Trumpian fantasy circa 1920. Pathetic. What has ALWAYS given this country its greatness is its social mobility, it's open seats at the table, and it's wide open diversity. Full stop.
9
Affirmative action by definition always was discriminatory and thus inherently unfair. What does skin color have to do with college admission?
A far better way is to ensure equal access to education, including college education, in the first place. Make college education tuition essentially free for low income students, with incremental parental contributions depending on income levels and other dependants (i.e. a family with 7 children should not have to pay more cumulatively than a family with 1 child).
There are various other changes that could be considered, but that should be the primary one. These days, a high school diploma is not sufficient for anything. College education is the new norm.
10
Yes, make those Corporations pay 50% on their profits, particularly BigPharma, and gun manufacturers. Plenty of tax money will pay for anything we want. Remove taxes altogether from lower income groups.
Chris,
Taking your argument to its logical conclusion you would also have to charge for any form of school education, which is currently paid for by property taxes. Again, poor children would be hit hardest. But, it would ensure the persistence of an underclass that would have zero chance of advancing its social status, so de facto you are advocating a system of modern day slavery, where those who were so unlucky to be born into a poor family will have to toil merely to survive with no hope for improvement.
These days in our advanced society denying college education because of economic status effectively amounts to the same thing.
Besides, not educating our people disadvantages all of us in the global competition. That is short-sighted.
By the way, I consider myself a conservative.
I'm not sure what's wrong with meritocracy? The best schools in the country love to tout their wholistic admissions standards. From my daughter's experience, that is the case. The standards are different. To get into and ivy league (where my daughter is), she had to be almost perfect in test scores, gpa, extra curriculars. That is simply not the case for minority students with whom she competed to get in. So what happens with these students who are accepted but aren't ready academically? Elite universities offer "bridge programs" as a way to guide these students along. It's not fair or right. In the same way, if my daughter chose, she could have entered any engineering program with her ACT math scores. White males would never get in with her scores. She's not an engineering major, nor should she be.
19
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.”
-- Chief Justice Roberts
Truer words were never spoken... the names of students on college applications should be blacked out before they go to the admissions office. Race and ethnicity should not even be asked on a college application. No legacy information should be available to the admissions office either.
28
Yes indeed. It should be illegal to even ask this question in any manner especially as the very notion of race is becoming increasingly and blessedly ill defined.
3
Right. Thou shalt not covet or lie or steal or any of those other bad things.
There. Now everything is good again.
Time to shut the borders and make the country white again.
Happy Independence Day.
2
The very definition of "racism" for many of us is judging someone based on his/her race. We believe we should be race-blind. Period. AA is anathema to us for that reason. It also violates another core value, merit. That said, I believe first-generation Americans should get assistance -- not admission -- at colleges since they've missed the process that most middle- and upper-middle class kids have gone through. Again, though, merit should be the final arbiter of admission. Competition, especially, in a global economy should not be a dirty word.
1
More proof of how important it is going to be to take control over the executive and legislative branches of government beginning this fall.
2
Asian are going to vote Trump. Appeasing blacks and Hispanics will result in loss of Asian votes by democrats.
5
Why? To help China?
Wait till you outnumber his and his buddies’ kids in colleges. He’ll be taking aim at the unfairness of letting so many Asians in.
Many of the comments here advise economic diversity as opposed to racial. And they'd be right. But how do you convince colleges to give up the $$$ stream? Nowadays, it's all about the perks...the fancy dorms, the fancy gym, 452 dining options. Someone needs to pay for that! I don't have the answers, just saying that economic diversity and colleges' admittance policies are at odds.
5
If only ...
Trump doesn't mean "ignore" race. He means find your inner fears and hatreds and otherblaming, and let it rip.
The man is a walking talking barrel of disgusting inhumanity, a selfish bullying coward who doesn't see other people as real unless they flatter him or stimulate his desires.
10
In reply to SML , who writes : All the rest of us came here of our own free will.
Not quite. Not a few Germans were sold like cattle
"Frederick the Great, in a letter to Voltaire (June 18, 1776), expressed his contempt for the men-selling princes, and found occasion at a somewhat later time to throw impediments in their way. "Had the Landgrave come out of my school," he writes, "he would not have sold his subjects to the English as one sells cattle to be dragged to the shambles. ..I pity the poor Hessians who end their lives unhappily and uselessly in America." "
http://www.americanrevolution.org/hessians/hess2.php
1
Obama's move was racism personified.
Thank goodness its back to merit based.
14
I’m so happy for Asian people!!!
No more limit them to a 11% quota!!!
4
You’re right. Thank goodness universities will no longer have automatic legacy or donor admissions and now there will be only merit-based admissions. Whew, I’m glad you figured that out!
2
The MAGA crowd will be crying foul if AA goes away, as colleges will become ~50% Asian almost overnight (as in UC Berkeley), and in ~25 years the top echelon of executives will be 50% Asian too (Asians are already over-represented in Fortune 500 CEO ranks, even more over-represented than whites).
http://fortune.com/2017/06/09/white-men-senior-executives-fortune-500-co...
Reality is, so-called liberal colleges are doing the MAGA crowd a favor by artificially holding down the Asian share of their student body. You want to declare war on such so-called liberal colleges? Well, and why not get into a trade war with allies as well, then?
Oh wait, we already did that. Carry on.
PS: I am an Asian and would love to see the hard work of Asian kids and their so-called Tiger parents get the respect and rewards that they deserve. I have no problem with a Asian dominated US society, as long as it is a meritocratic society. My point above is to simply note that AA currently works in favor of the majority whites.
11
As far as I understand Affirmative Action was put in place to assist those with the most need to succeed in Higher education, namely African American and Latino children. It wasn’t at all perfect but it did provide those intended an opportunity to go to college when, if it didn’t exist, they may never have had the opportunity. That’s exactly what it is for. Removing it will be such a travesty for the intended. Trump is a racist through and through as is DeVos. They don’t care at all for the underprivileged which is what this is for. Nothing is perfect. It’s horrifying. Those who praise this move—I’m very angry and sad you feel this way and you are wrong.
5
Hey, "what do you have to lose" said the racist to black folks. Well, you can start with the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act. Then we can move on to separate accommodations and facilities for whites and non-whites that includes Latinos, Asians, Muslims, Native Americans, and others. When MLK said, "Judge people by the content of their character and not by the color of their skin", he never imagine a racist in the WH. What a disgusting and pathetic time in our country.
10
What a grotesque distortion. The Obama administration, unable to pass legislation after its Porkulus spending bill and the Obamacare cram down, was in the habit of making unofficial law through so-called guidance letters. Technically, the guidance had no legal force, but it was, after all, the voice of your regulator telling you how it would like you to behave.
The elimination of the guidance on racial admissions does not reverse anything on affirmative action. Colleges remain free to use race as they please within the confines of the law. This action merely gets the federal government out of the business of telling colleges what King Obama thought they should do, with a hint there might be trouble for those who did not comply.
Progressives liked Obama's policies and are fond of his revolutionary chic "by any means necessary" mentality. In fact, he was probably one of the most lawless Presidents in recent memory in terms of respecting the Constitutional bounds of his office. The biggest entitlement of our time passed as a budget reconciliation measure. He outwardly conspired with foreign governments to make the Paris Climate Accord and Iranian nuclear deal immune to Senate review. He seizied control over the electric utility industry under a dubious interpretation of the Clean Air Act. And, of course, He gave the Dreamers a free pass under the guise of prosecutorial discretion. I could go on and on!
19
I hate everything you say except this, which I believe to be accurate: "The elimination of the guidance on racial admissions does not reverse anything on affirmative action. Colleges remain free to use race as they please within the confines of the law. "
2
Isn't this already banned in California ? How are they doing out there ? Funny to see people from CA moaning about Trump when it was passed in a referendum to abolish it. Isnt that why Stanford is 50% Asian (or some high figure)
10
Your math may be ok, Steve, but your logic is getting away from you. Do you really think that, if 51% of a population can get a law passed, the other 49% will stop disliking that law?
3
The clown show continues!
These lames actually think they can walk back, reverse, undo what people have come to KNOW as truth.
Watch Texas and the rest of the racist states.
Big changes a-comin' boor-boy!
2
Sigh
Another day
another punch bowl
another massive Trump.
5
Good comment; creative. . .
It’s amazing how much some people want students to be admitted or denied to universities based on their skin color. Racism is racism. Telling qualified white and Asian students that they’re not allowed into certain schools solely because of their skin color is disgusting. It punishes students for the perceived sins of their ancestors and because they are successful
28
You know who are the greatest beneficiaries of affirmative action?... Asians. Not Asian-American, Asians in Asia. America is going to send second tier spoon fed graduates to face off against their Asian counterparts that excelled against millions of their peers in a pure meritocratic system. Do you think an Asian company will say "let's handicap our product by 20% because that American company is lead by an AA CEO"?
Sure, you can try teaching Asians they should feel ashamed of their skin color and check their privileges. You think they will give a darn you think culture and family is an advantage? Is it any wonder that most projections put this year as the year China overtook the US in overall research?
12
Yeah, good luck explaining to China how their factory workers are so overprivileged. Eyeroll.
If Democrats and the left continue to support Affirmative Action that blatantly discriminate against Asian-Americans, it will cause millions of Asian-Americans to switch parties to the Republican Party.
De Blasio et al need to know they are playing a very dangerous game with their quota politics. Asians are the fastest growing demographic in the US right now.
20
Another WIN for Trump.
7
A win for decency and America!
2
I would urge Trump to learn about the economic legacy of slavery and lasting effects of institutionalized racism. I’d also urge him to consider that inherited poverty is a force in our society similar in impact to something he has great familiarity with - inherited wealth. But since he won’t make an effort in either respect, I would just urge him to go eff himself.
7
If Trump was judged on merit, I doubt the New Mexican School of Highway Design* would have accepted him.
*a fictional school where all you need to know how to do is draw a straight line.
7
He's a remarkably intelligent, shrewd and dynamic man. Even detractors should recognize that. Your comment simply reiterates your political position; it says nothing about Trump personally.
5
Why isn't the resident who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth equally upset about the unfair legacy admissions. Could it be because they almost always help whites?
8
I have always disliked race-based affirmative action for two reasons: (1) it’s too little, too late, and (2) it breeds apparent racism on campuses and thereafter. An unready student should not be put in a position where he cannot succeed, and badging a minority with a college degree from an Ivy just means every employer thereafter will look at the degree with skepticism. There is a well-known study that looked at bias against “black-sounding” names on resumes: how much of that is a rational by employers seeking the best ability as opposed to the best brand? Fix the problem early — preschool and resources at early ages in underprivileged areas just makes more sense.
7
I can't agree more. Stop the spending of our resources on illegal aliens. Put the money in underprivileged schools!
3
This never worked before, hence affirmative action was & is still need.
Fascism is here, and it's disguised as Patriotism & Equality.
4
Thank goodness. Put this practice to an end please. Disability knows no racial boundaries nor do medical problems (e.g. cancer).
11
If schools ignore race in admissions, it will be the first time in our history.
12
I was wondering what would be the impetus for mobilizing minority votes. Thus far politicians offer very little and the pot has just been simmering stably over a very low flame. Minority neighborhoods are mostly impervious to the hype. Word travels faster than you think in certain circles and Republicans don't have their ears to the ground where it matters. Alabama was a good example of how quiet things can get before the storm.
3
To factor in the adversity and challenges faced by applicants while taking race into consideration, consider creating an 'Adversity Stack' of preference ordering.
Applicants can be grouped into bands (clusters) based on the the extent of adversity and challenges they faced. This grouping will be race blind and based only on factors such as economic class, parental education levels, etc. Within each band (cluster) applicants can be ranked on merit; when two applicants of similar ability (within a band) are considered, preference can be given to an African American or a Hispanic. Admission offers will be made starting with most disadvantaged band and moving upwards to less disadvantaged groups.
This has two advantages - first, a less qualified applicant dislodges a more qualified one only if he is relatively more disadvantaged (in a lower band). This allows the disadvantages faced by a less qualified person to adjust his merit ranking upwards. Secondly, race is used only to break ties - i.e., to choose between more or less equally qualified candidates. Under this system a poorer Vietnamese applicant with higher grades and SAT scores will not be denied in favour of a less credentialed upper middle class applicant purely on the basis of race. She can be denied only in favour of a similarly qualified student of a different race.
A disadvantage: it may be necessary to allocate a quota to the 'adversity stack' and then pick the rest on unadjusted merit scores.
SK
I was once asked how I got a job that a white co-worker had been trying to get since at the time he felt he was more qualified since I was only the secretary. I had the tell him that not only was I a veteran I actually had more education and that I met all the requirements of the job, and as only the secretary I managed a million dollar budget and had a degree in the sciences which he didn't. You wouldn't believe how often this occurs and that we are forever fighting a battle we shouldn't have too.
12
Everybody fights those battles. Not just Blacks even though Blacks have had the advantage for 50 years!
1
I lived in a neighborhood for a long time that was overwhelmingly African American. Here was the situation at our local public high school with respect to its immediate neighbors: On one side there was a probation department. On the other there was a military recruitment center. Whenever I visited the campus the walls were bare and when I spoke to the teachers they said they were doing the best they could but that they needed more resources. Police were present on campus nearly all the time. The graduation rate was well under 50%. One of my friends was an administrator at the school and said that while she thought it was "possible" to get a good education there, she didn't recommend sending kids there if it could be avoided. So of course Trump wants people from those schools to have to compete with the white suburban kids. He's absolutely determined to lock in white privilege to keep those kids and all their descendants down, for as long as he possibly can, and to use them for cheap labor and just to kick around.
5
Blacks in America do better economically than any other large group of Blacks in the world. Also, unemployment for the black community is at an all time low. Obama said it was a good time to be Black in America.
4
Dan, the community itself was very much on the economic upswing. I am talking about the public school, since the topic is education. The local community had no control over that school. African-Americans who succeed do so in spite of people like you, not because America is great for them. Imagine how much better off those successful people would be if this society provided equal opportunities. I speak from experience living in that community for over ten years, not from cherry-picked talking points concocted in an armchair. If you really want race-blind college admissions, then stop privileging the white kids in K-12. That high school in our community was anything but race blind.
On the surface, I am the face of an affirmative action story.
Under the surface, it's complicated.
I grew up middle class in Latin America. We moved here when I was a small. Although my mom was born and raised in the US, neither parent knew anything about college.
I went to two different high schools and four different elementary schools. In science and math, I had hardly any continuity of study. The night before I took the SATs I stayed up all night babysitting my sister's slumber party. My parents were tired and ordered me to do so; neither understood the importance of what i was going to do the next day. I did not study for the test---indeed I never even knew what the test was about. My guidance counselor had recommended it. I showed up and took it-my score remains my deepest darkest secret.
I did not apply to good schools--my parents said I had to drive anywhere I attended because only loose women lived away from home. I fought them to live in the commuter school I ended up attending--I transferred to a good school my junior year. By then, I had figured a few things out. When I transferred, I had a 3.75 GPA.
Here is the thing. My siblings had the benefit of my advice and my siblings got into good schools.
The deficit is not racial so much as it is about access to knowledge.
11
Instead of affirmative action based solely on race or gender why not give consideration to economic status.
An economically poor student growing up in a rural environment will probably have attended a less rigorous K-12 school than an affluent child [white or black or Asian] who attended a much more rigorous school.
Shouldn't the economically poor student's background be considered.
18
This would be more defensible if the policy was to allow only merit based considerations: no legacy admissions, no admissions based on the genrosity of parental donations, etc.
9
How much more proof do we need? This administration, starting from the top and with few exceptions, is made up entirely of racists.
I wonder how easily Trump and his son-in-law would have gotten into their respective Ivy League schools without the affirmative action known as wealth.
3
Sure... another simpleton idea from an administration of simpletons. What could go wrong?
Exactly what test should selection be based on? If you think the SAT -- or any single exam can accurately measure a candidate's potential, capability, creativeness, work ethic, experience, etc., classify yourself as one of those simpletons. It's why universities do what they do and don't rely on your opinion! Praise be GOD for that!
1
You are the reason Trump already has his second term.
5
Yeah, I agree. I think people should be let into a college BECAUSE they are black. That is a great policy.
3
It's a constant barrage of attempted shocks to the American way of life as we know it. Don't be taken in by the con man. If we're talking about children being ripped out of the arms of their mothers and the end of affirmative action, we're not talking about Trump and Russia. All of this is a mosaic smoke screen created to keep the American people at bay and Donald Trump out of jail.
3
I have noticed in the last couple of weeks, the has become an overwhelming number of pro-Trump posters on every news article in the NYT. This is a sudden change from a small minority of Trump-support comments. Based on the sudden surge and the virtually identical points raised, I beleive that these comments are orchestrated by pro-Trump organizations who recruit people to deluge the NYt with Pro-Trump comments.
11
Or trolls. It is terrible that the NY Times allows this
2
A lot of Asians are switching to Trump. As far as Asians are concerned, Trump is right on affirmative action and illegal immigrations. Asians want fairer access to colleges and legal immigration to people who stand in queue, no traffic the ones that jump the queue and demand everything.
4
You don't like "diversity" of opinion? Perhaps more readers agree with Trump's positions than you'd like to acknowledge. On immigration and now Affirmative Action, he has gotten it right according to many NYT readers.
Those pesky Asians, always crashing the party.
Imagine, the one minority group Democrats have never really been able to convince of their victimhood and need of saving instead insist people should be judged not by race, but by performance.
How antithetical.
This country wastes more time worrying about racial makeups in every group - except professional sports like the NBA.
Given more and more Americans are multi-racial anyways, you get Elizabeth Warren.
Time to stop forcing employees to identify a race at all. Employees should resist the micro-managers and choose other.
15
It is neither surprising or unexpected from the likes of Trump and Republican goons and a follow on to ripping babies from their mothers at the southern border. What will the next Trump "Tweet" be about, perhaps advocating an approval of enforced segregation of races and gender? It is so embarrassing to be an American with Trump in the W.H. evangelicals support this policy, guess so since Trump is their "man" leading to their dream of eliminating the separation of "their" church and state!
2
I grew up poor in a dysfunctional family that did not prepare me for college. They were even okay with it if I dropped out of high school. Since I am white, I have never had to suffer being called the n-word or being denied important services or being suspected automatically of crime or anything like that. But there are black people who were raised in healthier families with more psychological advantages than I had as an individual. I think maybe we should do Affirmative Action by social class and income and also by assessing just how many obstacles the applicant had to face down just to get up the confidence to apply.
And test preparation companies should either serve everybody equally, or nobody at all. Just having the money for test prep should not be what gets anyone admitted.
11
I grew up poor in a dysfunctional family that constantly contradicted school lessons. Everyone assumed I was born overseas and forced me to take ESL based on my skin color. They refused to let me out, even though I never needed it.
My peers received allowances for passing. I was reprimanded for any mistake, even if the extra credit question was about TV, which I was not permitted to watch. The school wouldn't let me skip more than 1 grade even though I was at least 4 years ahead.
I was up until 6am (no sleep) getting lectured at the night before the PSAT. We all forgot the test was happening. I still got a near perfect score and went on to become a National Merit Scholar.
Any test prep, I earned by winning contests. My parents kept hiding my mail so I ran away from home during junior year to accept job offers to secretly tutor kids at cut rates for cash after school and on weekends, which I hid from my parents, who did not understand the very expensive and delicate U.S. college application process. They assumed top students are fully supported by the government, as they often are in Asia.
I used money from tutoring to research schools, buy books, pay app fees, and get train tickets to my college interviews. I also bought xmas gifts for the family that took me in during this time. I returned home senior year after getting admitted early to my top choice school. When I named the school I'd chosen, they'd never heard of it.
Not privileged. Just Asian American. #hustle
Who can possibly doubt how easy minorities have it thanks to the forced beneficence of downtrodden white folks. Forget about slavery lynchings, Jim Crow, redlining, housing segregation and bullets in the back while fleeing armed agents of the State who are held unaccountable for their acts.
(I am not talking about all armed agents, but driving, walking, cycling or running while dark-skinned is a lethal hazard in many parts of the USA.)
It's unfair! Minorities are taking us to the cleaners!
5
Your humor aside, I think you will find 'the many parts of USA' you refer to based around poverty, not race based per se. Trump wants to do infrastructure, do you see any dems at the table?
2
We could use some cleaning after the dirty things we've done to minorities.
3
Financial Hardship
Socioeconomic status
Poverty
percentage from all schools
disguised affirmative action.
***TRIGGERED***
2
Take time for self-care.
1
Apparently, you understand what he's roaring. Can you help the rest of us understand ?
Of course this kind of policy comes from the elite who benefit from white privilege but ignore and deny 400 years of slavery and the aftermath of that. Oh yea, they think black people should just pull themselves up from their boot straps even tho Jim Crow era policies ended only 53 years ago, a blink of an eye in the whole scheme of human history. What is wrong with Republicans, why must we equate them with racist policies. This is really outrageous and reason #9999 this admin has gotta go!
8
In a word: Good!
10
Harvard will be 43% Asian. Trump will still be racist and unable to be accepted at any college, university, or trade school. Who would let Trump be their doctor or carpenter? Yet he thinks he owns the world. Trump is laughable.
8
I just imagined Trump as a doctor:
"Since I once knew someone with cancer, today I will be your oncologist. Since I am your oncologist, I declare you to have cancer. But don't worry, some tumors are actually very fine people."
4
Love your response! Not even for-profit colleges would accept Trump!
2
I guess next is that considering any disadvantages background, even white and poor will be seen as discriminating over rich white privileged students.
7
Obama created this evil racist policy out of fear and hatred for everyone who doesn’t look like him. Thank you, President Trump, for restoring fairness to America!
7
I am certain that a head-to-head matchup between Obama and Trump, based upon intellectual capacity and academic ability, would result in a win by Obama. Trump knows he is inferior and it eats at him.
3
When we fund public schools in poor areas like private schools then this might make sense
Until then it’s just another destructive anti social angry white man move.
8
We need to get rid of AA because the Supreme Court, the Senate, the House and the Presidency have been dominated by women and minorities for far too long. When you examine the history of these institutions, you hardly ever see a White male. Since the founding of this country, the White male has never had a break. He's always been at the back of the bus, not allowed to vote and worked as a slave for some time. We even put him on reservations and forced him to be totally dependent on federal handouts. Lastly, we need to stop allowing Black police officers to kill them.
7
For those who had deluded themselves that Trump/GOP was not racist; this is 100% pure proof of racism. Vote out GOP for change. Ray Sipe
5
So anybody who is against affirmative action is a racist? Such hyperbole will get your hero Trump reelected. I think you forgot what racism looks like.
3
The venal Trump administration is using the very legitimate Asian case against Harvard as a shield. They want higher admission if white whites and not Asians. They will find loopholes to punish universities if they select students based on merit alone, which would probably mean half the student bodies at elite institution should be Asian. Justice, DeVos and other of Trump’s henchmen will demand admissions be proportionate to demographic dustribution. Meaning let in more whites and keep the asians out. It will be a discriminatory policy bending the other way and once again will bebe denied oppirtunities they deserve.
2
The twin bigots, Trump and Sessions, score again to suppress the non-white population. California did away with Affirmative Action at the Universities 20 years ago. Berkeley Freshman class (2014) was 40% Asian, 20% Hispanic, 5% Black. General population of California is roughly 13% Asian, 33% Hispanic and 6% Black.
5
Maybe. But is there a point to all this?
I don't particularly like either one of them; but I would certainly like to understand what you're saying before I join you fol the chorus.
2
@Kenneth.
Asians are OVER represented and Hispanics are UNDER represented at Berkeley, which is a tax payer supported, state sponsored university.
WINNING.
7
What's next?
Withdraw the right for Blacks and women to vote?
Re-segregate our schools?
Legalize slavery?
I think I just heard Jeff Sessions crack a smile.
8
How about affirmative action in voting ?
Each black, African-American, protected class person could get two votes instead one.
After all somebodies great - great- great - great grandfather might or might not have been a slave.
Besides, how wouldn’t Obama’s kids - deprived as they are - otherwise gain admittance to a decent school.
Let’s just stop the madness and stop discrimination by not discriminating.
3
Actually, with voting, we have a kind of affirmative action for rural states. Someone’s vote in Montana is with three times my vote in California.
This is pathetic. The know-nothings are always pointing their finger at `whiny, cry-baby liberals.' Now who's the cry-baby?
“... the fact that it’s not just white students being discriminated against, but Asians and others as well,” said Roger Clegg, president and general counsel of the conservative Center for Equal Opportunity. White students being discriminated against? To hear the know-nothings tell it, you'd think that whites in America are under siege, threatened by people of color who now run the world. Nonsense. Get a life.
8
Trump plays to his racist base because he is a lifelong proven racist. They reinforce one another's hatred for people of color. It is the driving force behind the Trump administration and his so-called election, with or without Russian hackers. That Obama had a role in increasing collegiate diversity makes Trump's racist moves just icing on his double chocolate cupcakes.
6
Just like dear old dad did with housing, right?
6
Trump and Trumpskis: Make America White Again.
3
The president is a racist and so are many of his followers. They are the very reason why programs like affirmative action are still needed.
8
Trump is our modern day President Andrew Johnson...a disgrace and unfit to be our President.
2
A blazing racist president! Ignoring the wrongs of his fathers...
7
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Of course he and the attorney general would both do this, they both are racist. Buy most of all they do this to destroy anything with Obama's name on it.
6
Obama is the biggest racist to ever occupy elected office in America. President Trump deserves credit for removing this cruel, heartless, antiquated relic of Obama’s racial hatred
12
The panic of the white race.....get a racist president then cheat and destroy help for other races.
3
I urge you (NYT) to ignore Trump. Why do you keep repeating and printing the lies of a serial liar? Who cares if he is our Putin appointed President. He is a loser. Losers cheat. He cheated. He's a loser.
1
Wow. Incredible how much hatred for Obama that Trump carries around inside of him. Of course it helps that his hatred for blacks in general is also there I wonder if Trump is aware that his hatred comes from fear, like all hatred, meaning of course that underneath it all there's sniveling coward hding and hoping nobody finds out.
5
Why the hell should skin color EVER enter into the equation? That is, by definition, R-A-C-I-S-T.
12
The modern conservative is not much better than a Nazi.
7
Reparations must be paid to Asians for the discrimination they suffered at Obama’s cruel hands
6
Of course. They had it so easy before Obama -- railroad gangs at the start of the 20th, free housing in the "internment" camps of the 1920s and 1940s-50s.
And who can forget the special attention they got from "housing" during the Eisenhower and Nixon years?
3
Affirmative action was a needed motivation for employers following the Civil rights movement, however it has become a tool to create equity without consideration of those impacted. Equality of opportunity is all that the state should guarantee. There are certainty those that are less fortunate than others, however it is impossible to control for these factors. Put simply, life is unfair. I had to work a full time job and attend a public university, while my friends got the four year getaway special. I needed to work much harder as a result of the work and school workloads. Should my friends have been penalized? Should they have been forced to live my circumstances? I would say no. I was happy to have the opportunity to change my own destiny with my hard work. Policys that determine your destiny based on race can be nothing other than racist by design. If we follow this train of thought to the logical conclusion students who would benifit score lower scores, have lower gpa's, and fewer extracurricular activities. These qualitys are predictors of academic readiness and ability. Under qualified student's would then be sent to expensive University's that thet are not prepared . This can result in excessive debt and higher risks of dropping out. Rather than put people in these situations wouldn't it be beneficial to allow students to attend schools and program's where they can academically perform based on their own abilitys and talents?
Typed up on mobile sorry for grammer...
2
If you eliminate affirmative action, you would need to do the following to truly level the playing field on both sides:
- Fund local public schools from the federal government instead of by town property taxes
- When schools lag behind in test scores because of disadvantaged populations, the federal government provides evening instruction for parents, and adds more funds and expertise for intensive remedial instruction when the students are toddlers
- Family donations are equally apportioned out to all schools
- No parents are allowed to pay for elite private elementary, middle and high schools
- No parents are allowed to pay for private tutoring and standardized exam prep
See how ridiculous it sounds to give all kids a fair shake?
And that's only talking about families that are living in poverty.
From a color-based hiring bias study (Forbes Sept. 16, 2017):
- Since 1989, whites receive on average 36% more callbacks for job interviews than blacks, and 24% more callbacks than Latinos, for equivalent resumes.
- Fewer callbacks likely translate into fewer offers. Fewer offers give an applicant fewer choices to find the best available job.
- Black and Latino students are more likely to need education loans than Whites, and the more education, the more loans are needed, which means higher debt. The financial impacts makes Blacks and Latinos put off steps for growing wealth, including marriage, buying a home, and saving for retirement.
AA is unfortunately still needed.
6
In many colleges, diversity is now a full-fledged function, like human resources and accounting. What will all those diversity staff members do now? Perhaps they could be redirected to important areas of knowledge like the Constitution and the First Amendment. They could become the new required freshman seminars.
8
Jeff Sessions is working his way to flying the Confederate flag at the Department of Justice. And Trump is ordering some smaller ones for his presidential motorcade, just in case one white voter doesn't understand who their party is.
Seriously, JUST ASK the Criminal Justice Legal Foundation WHO LAUGHED at Sessions joke on 26 June 2018:
"These (advocates serving the separated children) live in gated communities, many of them, and are featured at events where you have to have an ID to even come in to hear em speak. They like a little security around themselves. If you try to scale the fence they’d be even too happy to have you arrested and separated from your children."
I hope all of these 'conservative' Trump supporters REVEL in being a victim, like Alan Dershowitz 'says' he does WHEN MARTHA'S VINEYARD shuns him.
TAKE NOTE alumni of Harvard, Yale, etc - the future IS PAYING ATTENTION. Pick your causes carefully because you will own every Trump association.
5
I'll cut Trump and the GOP a deal.
NO recruiting for, and deals and scholarships, for guys who can play BBall and Football. That would save millions on paying some coaches more than most Fortune 500 CEO's earn.
ALL fraternities and sororities have to admit members without meeting them.
NO favoritism for descendants of previous alum.
Heck, this handicapped access thing is just an attack on "normal" people.
AND a lot more to show what they REALLY mean.
2
What about the “legacy” admissions? Without these, the Trump offspring would no doubt have enjoyed stellar community college careers.
And how about numerical identifiers and not names to shield against bias because of “non-white” names, and blinding names of high schools and universities attended to shield against bias because of historically black history?
3
I know what this administration is against. Anything Obama implemented. But what is it for? Being against something doesn't mean you are for the opposite. I want to go through life being for things. I don't think they know what hope and ideals mean.
1
Are they going to do away with legacy preferences as well? As we all know, these preferences are essentially affirmative action for white, wealthy, and well-connected folks.
4
I’d counter by challenging Trump to lead by example and adopt a race-blind Presidency.
Affirmative Action policies would never have been required in the first place were iit not for people like Donald J. Trump and his ilk.
Lest we forget that odd phrase he used to describe his new “space force” only a couple of weeks ago— “separate but equal...”.
2
This is only the second thing I applaud Donald Trump for doing (the other is getting tough on China). The way to fix racism is to stop discriminating - period. Why should some Asian (or white) kid who had nothing to do with slavery have to be penalized individually now to make up for historical atrocities? That’s not fair to them.
If we want to make things right for African Americans, hold police accountable for excessive force, stop racial profiling, stop all white juries from making wrong verdicts, stop banks from discriminating when making loans, etc.
We should stop wrong things from happening going forward, but penalizing one individuals of one race to make up for past wrongs doesn’t help.
13
I am white and grew up affluent. Every advantage and opportunity was laid at my doorstep. I did not earn these gifts, I was given them. A black and poor student who achieved the same things as me is not equal but instead, better as he or she had to work much harder for those accomplishments. That is the heart of affirmative action.
7
I am white, was raised by a single mother and was very poor. I shared a bed with my mother until I was 13 in our tiny apartment. We were always on the verge of eviction. Phones were shut off and cars were repossessed. My mother didn't know what SAT's were and thought graduating high school was life achievement. Her parents were immigrants who barely spoke English. My grandmother cleaned houses.
My children grew up comfortable with everything. The last thing I want is for them to be apologetic about it. I've taught them that they are one generation away from poverty and that they must work hard and not squander their privileges. I earned everything. I gave it all to them. I am certainly not going to apologize and neither should they.
11
Nicole, have Barack Obama’s children worked harder than you and everyone else? They would be counted toward affirmative action statistics for their respective schools. That is the heart of the current affirmative action debate. If you want to make affirmative action race blind and only look at economic status, I’m willing to consider that. I don’t think many are eager to justify race based affirmative action that mostly gives a leg up to minority students from well to do backgrounds (and ignores Asian students from poor backgrounds, for example.)
2
The era of affirmative action is over. It's time for intelligence and initiative to be the factor for advancing in academia and the workforce.
14
There's nothing wrong or discriminatory with evaluating someone on hard data/merit. The people who favor affirmative action are often the people who don't qualify for something based on merit. Let's face it, some people are just smarter than others. You know it and so do I.
7
It never ceases to amaze me how the words "affirmative action" conjures up the age old emotions of unqualified African- Americans taking seats in fine universities that they don't deserve. First of all, government research data has shown for decades that the largest group of beneficiaries of "affirmative action" has been white women. Please, let me say it again: white women. But, I have never, ever heard or read anyone disparaging white women who gain access to employment opportunities or educational opportunities that they didn't deserve. The other assumption here is that the very few seats in higher education that are set aside for African Americans are given to a bunch of incompetent young people.
The unbelievable reason that Abigail Fisher lost in her suit against the University of Texas was that she simply did not have better grades than the black and latino students she claimed were there because of affirmative action. But, there would have been no problem had UT taken Fisher, despite her lower grades. That would have been acceptable to everyone -- including the Asian students.
4
Trump the Great White Divider and Excluder. As for Sessions, what he learned from the Great Bear Bryant was only the part about winning on the scoreboard in Alabama. The part about affirmation of the first Southern college post Civil War, Alabama, that beginning in the 30s could compete and even maybe win in the mid 1930s against the likes of powerhouse teams like Washington and the Ivy League schools. Harvard had a very successful black head football coach in the 1890s. Bryant, on the other hand, brought diversity and even Northeast Region Jewish students to Tuscaloosa because of the coded messaging he offered in his life. Bryant, who secretly flew to LA to meet friend John McKay to schedule a mixed race team to Tuscaloosa for a big game he knew he was going to lose to a better team that year. Bryant, who grew up down the creek bed from Johnny Cash, a generous and historic voice in country music. There isn't a lot of authentic country music out there anymore, to be generous. It originally flowed from the hills of Appalachia and the hollers of the Virginias. Both Bryant and Cash were authentic, what you saw and heard was what you got. It's the same deal with Trump and Sessions. But the big difference is in perspective and values. Bear Bryant had a life that will resound for ages into the future. Trump and Sessions are voices from a cold, dark past in the United States, one of privilege, exclusion and division. Such lives find no good place in history.
1
So this means when one is taking a standardized test (SAT, ACT, MCAT, etc.) that is known to racially bias the application won't ask for gender or race/ethnicity? So this means all K-12 schools (which is important to get into college), including private ones, will all have have the same building comfort, books, and supplies? Let's make sure all this are equal to get to the point of going to college before saying race should not be looked at.
6
In reality they'd love to go back to the good old days when the only thing on college campuses were white boys with money. There is a problem with this however since so much money is being made by the Jerry Jones' and Sheldon Adelsons with their billion dollar sports teams and gambling houses all derived from the efforts of minorities. They might just change the rules as in basketball and allow them to come straight from our "soon to be" for profit high schools and skip the whole college nonsense except the amount of money being made in college sports is equal or greater between the wagering and the unpaid labor. It's a quandary for the oligarchs.
So the real truth is the colleges who have a racist bent will continue to recruit disadvantaged kids of color to play for their sports teams and then call themselves fair. Good colleges who care about diversity for very good reasons will continue to do what they did before Trump came along. This is just more racist meat for his base.
1
If all students will have equity and access pre-K through 12th grade irrespective of zip code.....I’m all for this if this will be phased in beginning with the pre-k class of 2019. If this will be a rushed job....NO DEAL!
I’d recommend everyone here to read the comments on any one of the half dozen articles regarding Harvard or NY testing schools admissions policies as well. The contrast in opinion and ideology are quite stark, and honestly I️ doubt anyone will ever change their minds, but it’s worth looking into.
In the context of this article and comment section, it seems that general hate for Trump is sort of overshadowing most of the discussion, which is kind of unfortunate because I️ think this is an issue that deserves serious debate.
7
Yes, unfortunately most of the minds here are closed. The only reason for ending affirmation action is "racism". When racism is your only reference point, every action looks exactly like it. No surprise, it's everywhere. Ditto for hating Trump. It's always about some evil thing he's doing even if Obama did the same thing.
3
Nobody wants to acknowledge the truth that most white Appalachians (now Trump voters) were also historically abused by the powers that be, even after hearing of "Hillbilly Elegy." Indentured servants were largely drawn from a lowland Scots culture where they were denied most basic human rights. The famous American log cabin? A lowland Scots makeshift dwelling invented because they were denied the right to own real estate. There's a reason most of the Founding Fathers towered 10" - 12" over their new citizens -- nutrition. More examples can be given.
They're still economically disadvantaged, despite all the fancy "inherent bias" mumbo jumbo.
AA based on economic status is an idea that should be considered.
6
Not ignoring race in admissions is racist. Remember MLK - "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Why should schools be allowed to judge children by the color of their skin?
6
Merit and merit alone.
9
Merit is not as easy to measure as you think, because of school funding disparities. All GPA’s are not equal. Many universities provide a percentage of opportunities for various reasons. Including trial tracks for underperforming students (regardless of race) to assist them to be successful.
Let’s not forget legacy admissions, down-rating privileged kids that get tutors and test prep along with outstanding K-12. If you’re white, have an intact family, and some wealth, you just need to be able to tie your own shoes to make it.
As for legacy in particular, it makes these schools clubs, not open education systems worthy of non-profit status.
Signed,
A white privileged guy with privileged kids hoping to live in a more robust US.
As long as Trump can manage to erase 150 years of past discrimination by race, then he is free to promote ignoring of race now. But if Trump cannot erase the past, than compensating a bit for it seems reasonable and more fair. How about being fair and understanding our nation's past 150 years of history, Donald?
3
This would be much easier to stomach if I believed that Trump was doing it out of concern for equality.
Based on his own words, I know that isn't what this is about.
He is pandering to his base that thinks all of their problems are caused by "others," which is what Trump thinks about his problems, too.
5
A step forward in the right direction. Socioeconomic status -- not race -- is a primary indicator for academic performance. Wealth can pay for luxuries like SAT tutors, houses in better school districts, etc. Consider this: under race-based affirmative action, a rich African American is considered to be more "disadvantaged" and would gain a slight boost over an Asian American from the projects.
7
This discussion is bringing out the worst in all of us. Both sides fall prey to racial stereotyping that erodes the very fabric of our nation. We have to get beyond this. I'm sorry, but not all African-Americans and Latinos come from poor backgrounds in substandard school districts, burdened by an ethnic "culture" that devalues academic achievement. Nor do minority students automatically bestow some magical "diversity" benefit on others as a result of some unique perspective, life experience or grit that can be detected purely by looking at the color of their skin. We just aren't color-coded, and I appreciate that this makes the issue more complicated, not less, because a purely color-coded solution won't suffice to fix a problem largely created by invidious color-coding. But perhaps the most troublesome aspect of the debate concerns not the core disagreement, but the unspoken unanimity that runs to the core of both sides--so much that it need not be expressly referenced--that what goes on at a sprinkling of elite institutions should play such a disproportionate role in this discussion. The Cal State University system might very well be one of the world's most economically and ethnically diverse, and educates 30 times as many undergrads as the entire Ivy League (and over 50% more than the total of all Ivy League applications!), yet it may as well not even exist at all in this dialogue.
6
I don't understand how both presidents could use executive orders for things like this. Presidents are not supposed to issue proclamations or edicts. It's the stuff of dictators and Kings. Why did this start?
To many people are becoming to comfortable with authoritarian leaders as long as they agree its all good.
5
Let's not fight over the size of the pie. Instead, let's make the pie bigger and better for everyone. $1.5 trillion in promised tax cuts, mainly to the rich, would be much better invested in our educational system.
Throwing money at schools is just a waste of money.
IF it did any good Wash, DC would have fantastic schools. The magic is parents who value education and keep after their kids.
4
Reader in DC, if throwing money at things was disqualifying we wouldn't have given massive tax cuts to corporations, millionaires and billionaires with little likelihood of a return. (And no, asset bubbles don't count as a return.)
It's also too much to ask that schools solve all our social problems, particularly in inner city and lower income districts. But access to a good education is always a good start.
There are plenty of useful ways to spend money on education. Universal preschool, higher salaries and benefits for public school teachers combined with higher hiring standards, smaller class sizes, better facilities and support particularly for impoverished schools, more grants and better subsidized loans for college students, and more accessible junior colleges and credible trade schools.
Private schools could expand their enrollments, but that would mar the parklike atmosphere in the Ivies. Anyway, most of the populace receives higher education in state schools, and more resources would allow expansion of enrollment.
One of the best investments California ever made was to establish and expand its state and junior colleges and its university system. There are plenty of smart ways to increase education spending with an eye to a return on the investment.
This is true meaning to "Make America Great Again". Return the country to a time when wealth and race determine privilege. Return to time when segregation is the accepted norm and white Christian supremacy is restored to its rightful place of honor.
With regard to college education, maybe its time for the government to get out of the needs-based assistance business altogether The total cost of a public school education should be free and admission should be by lottery among the eligible appicants. If admission to a private "elite school" is a scarce commodity then the total cost should be subject to "dynamic pricing" within the private marketplace of eligible applicants. If student body diversity is desired then lthe task is to find the private resources to meet this market price.
1
What percentage of disabled veterans would Trump not include, not build handicap accommodations for? Would Trump just have them beg on the street? Yes, he would.
1
Trump doesn't actually do anything, he just undoes things. There is no equity in that.
4
As a member of the Asian-American community who opposes pretty much everything that Trump does, I support this decision. Hopefully now we can get rid of the kind of discrimination that Harvard was recently shown to engage in against Asian-Americans. Make admissions need-based, where need is defined mainly by economic status. Give all low-income people a chance, irrespective of their race.
9
Interestingly, economic diversity is now becoming a more prominent issue. Turns out that many minority kids at top colleges are not necessarily from poor families. To further the goal of economic diversity, colleges are beginning to look at admitting more first-generation students. At Wesleyan University in Connecticut, approximately 15 % of each incoming class is first-generation. Their issues are similar to minorities because of the difference in their background from the wealthier students.
2
Trump got elected by only 25 % of eligible voters and probably thinks that will be enough to win again if he finishes his term. He is obviously not seeking votes of underserved minorities nor is he going to raise the issue of reparations at one of his rallies.
1
Scores on a test do not come close to measuring a persons qualifications and ability to succeed in an elite school. These schools value the quality of their student body and how it fosters greater success for everyone who attends. Let them do their job. Ignoring the great handicap that our country has and continues to inflict on minorities and over looking the true qualifications of this community through narrow standards, perpetuates the worst in America.
I'm a college counselor having to repeatedly explain to top students that they are not good enough to get into the top schools because they are Asian American.
Vague requirements give Harvard significant leeway in choosing anyone it pleases without regard to generally accepted standards of merit. Harvard's goal is to seek a distinctive and diverse national and international student body. On its website, the language is so carefully crafted.
"Our Admissions Office chooses carefully from a broad range of applicants who seem to us to offer the most promise for future contributions to society. Not all of the students who are best prepared for college will be among those with the most future promise, nor are all of the most promising well prepared academically."
Notice the words, "seem to us". So someone may not appear promising to others but they may be to Harvard. Exactly how can Harvard be so good at predicting future contributions to society? Does it maintain a database of alumni and their contributions, and tie those back to the initial admissions decisions?
Getting admissions to the best schools should be based almost wholly on high school academic merit - because that is the best indicator of future success in society.
https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/preparing-college/choosing-courses
11
Someone in this forum please explain to me: why does one particular race dominate football and basketball admissions to college?
Assuming the answer is “talent”, why should it not be the same for academics? And, if that is ok in sports, how is that fact consistent with all the arguments FOR diversity that one often hears being used: reflecting the broad pattern of society, a chance for all to participate in something meaningful, learning from working with people who have different skill levels, working in a team with people of diverse talent and experiences?
Why are these latter attributes less valuable in a sports team?
6
Affirmative action is an attempt to correct errors on the back end of the educational process committed on the front end. Race should be a factor and so should poverty and underfunded schools. The republicans have been sabotaging public education so they could say "look, public education doesn't work." They're all in the tear-down mode and want public money to flow to private interests so that private interests can make campaign contributions. One of the things driving intolerance is religious schooling, which teaches intolerance for just about everyone who isn't a christian.
2
Part of a great education is learning how to interact with a diverse group of peers of different gender, race, religion, ethnicity, nationality, etc. So, by calling on colleges to ignore diversity in admissions, the Trump administration is looking to degrade the quality and effectiveness of our educational system. But, there's a way around this... we just need the various agencies, news organizations, etc. that rank colleges and universities to include diversity of student body and of faculty in the ranking process. So, a college that has little diversity should not come out as overall highly ranked.
3
People helped today by affirmative action [AA] were not discriminated against.
People hurt today by AA never discriminated against anyone.
That white males today should be discriminated against because of what OTHER white males did in prior years is nonsense.
That legacy admission preferences exist does not mean poor whites [who are not responsible for legacy admissions] should be discriminated against.
AA is being asked to deal with the wrong problem.
Why are there only a limited number of good jobs or good schools so that there is a need to ration opportunities.
There has been talk of increasing diversity in the elite NYC public schools. INstead of looking for another algorithm to ration admissions why not open other high quality public schools so there are enough openings and therefore no need to ration.
But opening more elite schools means spending money you do not want to spend.
It is easier to ration and discriminate against poor whites and Asian -Americans.
6
I have no respect for our President, but even a broken clock is right twice a day.
The so-called affirmative action issue is yet another example of the intellectual bankruptcy of the Left that they seek to push unprepared black and Hispanic students (inadequately schooled in K-12 system that they control) into colleges through quotas, and then completely ignore how many of these unprepared students struggle in college, often dropping out or getting "easy" degrees while acquiring few marketable skills.
11
As someone who taught at a university, I can tell you that students admitted because of Affirmative Action did just as well, for the most part, as other students. For example, an African American with a 3.2 GPA who works fulltime after school to support his low-income grandmother might have been admitted before a white student with a 3.8 GPA who was from an affluent background and didn't have to work. While that might not seem fair to some, it seemed fair to many of us.
4
In professional athletics, a player's set of skills is always the factor that decides who makes the team and who does not. It also decides who plays and who sits on the bench. Why then should anything other than the comparative skills of candidates for admission to college be used as criteria for admission?
19
Well, maybe in general, I do agree. But some promising students may need a chance to overcome the barriers that have held them back and prove they're really up to the challenge.
Because educating the population is not the same as trying to win an athletic competition?
Pro athletes are used as a profit center by team owners until their bodies are too injured by use to stay in the game. Then they are told, politely or otherwise, to go away and make a living through some other means.
Education is not supposed to offer that same kind of experience. Education has a social mission, an inherent social mission. Otherwise everyone would be expected to homeschool themselves with private tutors from kindergarten through graduate school.
Also, athletic skills are simple to prove. They're hard to fake. Test prep companies can boost the apparent IQ and skills of a student whose parents can afford to pay for them. But that doesn't mean that an exam-coached student is going to be more successful as a student when the term begins.
Because people have proven again and again and again that they can't be trusted to withhold their own prejudices in the selection process. Without rules things tend to go sideways very quickly. Especially in the South.
Does this mean they will also require colleges
and universities to be blind to which families could make large donations to their institutions? Or to students who have prominent family members who attended? How else would GWB get into Yale and then Harvard Business School with a C average?
2
The schools themselves may make the best decisions here. The Obama regulations don't appear to have helped the situation. On the other hand, you can't make admissions a purely mechanical exercise. A 4.0 average doesn't necessarily mean you can do everything well, or that you will ultimately be more successful than somebody with lower scores.
In theory, admissions based solely on academic performance sounds great. However, study after study shows that factors such as poverty and wealth are a primary determinant of how a child will perform in school. Institutional racism and discriminatory housing policies mean that African Americans are disproportionately from a lower socioeconomic status. Not allowing colleges to consider admissions decisions, based on these factors, just perpetuates the cycle of poverty. Like most of Trump's moves this policy is inherently discriminatory and regressive. I guess it will make his 'base' happy...
5
Liberals' goal post went from a colorblinded society to a diverse society that takes color into every decision. Someone with my skin color, which is shared by a quarter of humanity, is automatically the same as me even if we were born 16000 kilometers apart, speak different languages and have completely different interests. No, it doesn't matter, the only part of my that counts is my color and it is also what determines what school I can get into, what job I can get and who I can vote for.
No society that divides itself ever thrived. Let's how long this experiment lasts. I have another passport for back up.
6
Factors like family income are mostly sufficient to control admissions for childhood circumstance. For this reason, the legal debate has nothing to do with righting historical wrongs that echo today. Colleges argue that diversity is inherently valuable in a student body, and that producing this diversity is a compelling interest which justifies otherwise-illegal racial considerations.
This logic has passed legal muster so far. In Grutter v. Bollinger circa 2003, the majority wrote that 25 years thence, “use of racial preferences will no longer be necessary.” Yet, we stand 15 years thence and who among us thinks that such a radical demographic shift will occur in the next ten? How much longer will we wait until we recognize that this policy does not produce the intended effect?
There exists a vast sea of schools which offer an education similar to top colleges, but this is scarce consolation to the spurned Ivy applicant. They are seeking name recognition and a social network. Tweaking the admission policies of exclusive institutions thus aims to replace racial elitism with naked elitism. Until we confront the harm caused by these signalling effects, our society will continue to swap one ill for another.
1
Can no one stop the governmental attacks on basic American hopes and dreams? I was a faculty member and an administrator in higher education for forty years. I assure you, categorically, that foreign students who worked for me were more dedicated; at work on time, if not early; striving to do their best always, and thankful for the opportunity to get an education. American students... not so much on all counts.
But, I hear and see that none of American education demands much these days. When any percentage of American fourth graders, cannot READ, one wonders about the basis of education: not unprepared students but totally not prepared students. And the teachers, one must ask? Pretty poor, I'd say.
It makes no sense to penalize the able to perpetuate the weakness of the unprepared.
3
This is the first policy of Pres. Trump that I actually agree with. It's long overdue. Remember, it's the content of character in which people should be judged, not the color of their skin.
Hard work, natural ability, and ambition are not equally distributed in the population, such as we may hope. Results matter, and that how people should be assessed.
9
If race is out, let's use poverty and lack of access to quality education to create a diverse student body. Is the Trump administration able to deny these as criteria for a mixed student body? Harvard et al has plenty of other options for creating diversity, equality and opportunity.
6
If race goes, then other admissions considerations such as legacies must also go, and admissions based on financial considerations for big donors. I can assure you that Trump would never have made it into the University of Pennsylvania, which considers itself a public Ivy, on his own merits.
6
His kkk old man made a $2 million contribution after Fordham University in NYC quietly asked the stupid boy to withdraw Poor academics ...could not and can’t handle the necessary thinking.
MLK famously dreamed of a day when his children would "Not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character".
One may try to justify affirmative action, but what is the argument that affirmative action is not institutionalized racism?
Like many wrongs sanctioned with authority, it denigrates both the actors and the affirmed by disturbing the integrity of the credential at large and for the individual.
Orchestras famously improved when the applicants performed behind a screen. Like "athletic scholarships", "affirmative action" should have no place in higher education.
7
In that quote, MLK was talking about how he wanted the future to be, after an equal society had been reached. I’m sure we would all love to live in a society like that, but we aren’t there yet. Black Americans have been discriminated against for centuries, and some other groups have also been disadvantaged. Giving people a leg up is the decent thing to do!
2
When I came to this country, knowing little English and even less of the cultural values, I benefitted from the kindness and understanding of teachers and other public school officials. They gave me specific opportunities to grow and participate and advance, and perhaps afforded me advantages over the native-born that allowed me to overcome language and cultural differences. It was an informal version of affirmative action. I became a physician, and I write and have published fiction. My first novel has just been accepted for publication. Thank you, prescient educators who did what was right, not what was mandated by law. Hopefully, current-day educators and admission committees will behave similarly, regardless of a racist president's proclamations.
It may be time for universities to consider financial hardship more than race as a factor in admission. It's time to bring together the haves and the have nots.
5
The color that discriminates the most is the color green. Wealth, not race or other identities, should be the factor where admissions policies should be flexible to account for hardship.
5
There is no way to adopt race-blind admissions policies. Everyone has prejudices and when it comes to selecting students for educational institutions where personal interviews are a major parts of the admissions process, race cannot be ignored. Only a naif or Donald Trump would believe that. The only solution until America becomes a truly "race-blind" society is to base admission quotas on the national racial/ethnic population distribution.
This race-blind university admissions policy is going to be favored by a significant majority of the country- practically all Republicans, most Independents and a decent percentage of Democrats as well. Philosophically, logically, legally, whatever- it's really difficult to sell a policy based on favoring one group of people because of their skin color. I expect that universities will figure out a way to diversify their campuses based on other criteria, which correlate with favoring minority admissions- extra admission points for athletic prowess comes to mind.
And how about geographic diversity with extra points to under-represented neighborhoods and schools which are largely black and Hispanic. I'm thinking there's a work-around here and maybe it's sensible to eliminate skin color as a factor/determinant of anything.
3
There should be no legacy admissions and veterans should not be given preferential treatment either.
2
At least we're finally getting to the issues that drove the overwhelming majority of Trump enthusiasts - ethnicity & race. They could have gotten their tax cuts for millionaires and conservative justices with any Republican, but it is these issues of ethnicity & race that set Trump apart, and why that 35% love him so.
2
I don’t like this but a work around is selection based on (low) family income.
2
We live in a culture of grievance and victimhood. However, in our time and place, the aggrieved are NOT the people whose ancestors were enslaved, whose parents lived through Jim Crow, or have been mired for generations in the prison industrial complex. It's the rest of us. I can tell myself if I were black I would have gotten into Harvard, I would have such a great job and my life would be so much better. It's so obvious. I feel better already.
11
To understand the state of affirmative action in this country look at the groups of people and organizations and their stance on race. Attorney General Sessions very conservative from the South. Heritage Foundation a very conservative free market think tank headed by southern libertarians. Judicial watch a very conservative free market and libertarian advocacy group.
What is it about white, southern, wealthy groups that always support anti worker, anti diversity, hard line strict interpretations of the law and constitution. Could it be that this issue is more about maintaining a cheap labor base and not race at all. Many in this group accuse liberals in believing in equal outcomes which is bogus. What this group does not believe in is equal opportunity. The legacy of wealth, privilege, and the opportunities that come with these associations shall not be infringed upon.
Imagine that -- equality under the law. Perhaps now we can stop treating Asian-Americans as second class citizens simply because they study, work hard, and achieve (including many from first and second generation families). Perhaps now individual achievement will supersede racial bean counting; and students will know the person sitting next to them in class got in (to paraphrase MLK) based on "the content of their character (and grades)" not on "the color of their skin."
12
Consideration should be given to socio-economic back ground of the applicant, not race. Give extra weight to academically talented applicants with financial need.
10
The is a play about the Delany sisters called "Having Our Say." These two sisters were black and lived to be 100 years old. In the book as well as the play the sister who was a dentist states that you cannot be average and black and make it in America. Growing up a young black man my father would always tell me that he did not care what I did just be the best. Affirmative Action gives a chance to get through the door but black students still have to work harder. The trump administration is making sure that each one of use teaches our children to work harder and make sure you help each other along the way.
You’re completely deluding yourself if you think black people “still need to get in the door” without the benefit of Affirmative Action. AA gets them through doors they shouldn’t.
2
I disagree with the Trump administration on virtually everything. I lose sleep at night as I see Trump degrading our country. I cringe every time my I-phone lights up, notifying me of the latest Trump atrocity.
But I do finally agree with something Trump is advocating: college admissions should be 100% race-neutral. And that other type of affirmative action should be abolished as well: legacy admissions.
Admission to college should be purely merit based. Race and family heritage is not part of a fair merit formulation.
7
Me too!!!
2
Why does the diversity issue not apply to sports teams. Why do only good players get on the team, whether or not they had been training in it from the time they were 4-5 (take swimming for example). I wonder .....
12
Welcome to the trump owned and operated WNFL
the White NFL.
Shou,d have as much economic success as his team in the WFL
( worked football league)
FYI another great bankrupt investment by the really stable genius.
When they get rid of "legacy" affirmative action (meaning students whose parents attended a university get an admissions boost) and "money" affirmative action (meaning students whose parents have made contributions to the school or who can pay $60,000 to $70,000 a year in tuition get an admissions boost, THEN it will be time to talk about why systemic racism in education at all levels should be ignored, so that more rich people (some with private "homework staff" to assist in their "achievement" can monopolize slots at prestigious universities.
14
My favorite way to nurture diversity is to provide equal opportunity for all at every stage. Let's hope that this is done. If not, let's do it!
4
Perhaps I'd be OK with this if they also stopped giving advantages to alumni children and those whose parents do not need scholarship assistance.
4
The Civil Rights Act of 1964 made racial discrimination illegal in almost aspects of American life. Calling discrimination "affirmative action" or "diversity" doesn't change it. It's time, 54 years later, to end it. This is a small step in that direction.
28
The false idea that ending this will level the playing field is as simplistic as thinking that trade wars are winnable, the random. Thought process of a very sick 3 year old’s mind.
It’s time to vote the adults back in charge instead of the destructive bulls in s china shop.
Whose motto is: “ create nothing destroy everything”
Btw bubbled right wingers still think people of color are coming running to vote for racist folk like you? Dream on trolls .
And the hits just keep on coming. This is yet the latest lesson for Liberals on the perils of governing by "Executive Order" rather then by the hard work of compromise legislation. Both Democrats and Republicans should have learned, by now, that any executive order validating a partisan viewpoint that could not win bipartisan legislative support, is ephemeral. Both parties should stop governing by fiat and work to satisfy the goals of the broad middle of the population rather than its extremes. These wide swings in the application of laws relating to vital issues are a poor substitute for a durable legal foundation.
3
Why are conservatives so intent on using Big Government to force private colleges and universities to change their admissions policy?
You'd think that conservatives would want Big Government out of the discretionary admissions policy decisions of private businesses.
This is one situation where, if a particular college or university wants to favor applicants on whatever metric they like, the free market should have a lot more to say about it than Big Government.
But the modern Republican party isn't about conservatism, is it? It's just a vehicle for white supremacist nationalism.
5
As a wise man once said:
"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
That was over 50 years ago but maybe, just maybe, the Trump Administration is helping make that dream closer to reality.
11
If you actually took the time to see what Martin Luther King Jr was trying to say, you would understand why citing his quote in this instance is misguided and wrong. But if you want to see income inequality increase and ensure that people of color are afforded fewer opportunities for a quality education then congratulations. That’s exactly what’s going to happen.
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I’m sure Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., the wise man you’ve quoted, would disagree that the Trump Administration is making his dream of equality a reality for all Americans. And if you think the Trump administration is interested in judging anyone by the content of his or her character, then you’ve drank too much of their reprehensible Kool-Aid. If anything, the majority of the American people and much of the world has judged Trump by his character, and have come to the conclusion that it’s an appalling one.
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