Have these folks broken our laws or not? THAT is the only issue. We are a nation of laws that Americans must obey. Why should illegals get a pass?
America's Achilles Heel is the willful ignorance of indoctrinated adherents. "Do my thinking for me, Daddy" is not meeting the duties of freethinking citizenship.
5
America, do we or do we not have a serious heroin problem in this country? How many Americans have died from heroin? According to Josh Katz of the NYT, more Americans died of drug overdoses in 2015 than all of our soldiers killed in the Vietnam war combined. More than the AIDS crisis at its peak, more than auto deaths in one year at its peak, and more than gun deaths at its peak year.
Now, who on earth is producing heroin? The number one country producing heroin supplied to the U.S. is Mexico. Yet the liberals are screaming for open borders and allowing anyone from this terrorist nation to enter.
I will say it again. Mexico is a terrorist nation which has inflicted more chaos, damage, and bloodshed upon our cities than the Vietnam war did.
Barack Obama had absolutely no excuse for allowing drug cartels to operate so close to home. He should have sent in Navy Seals to wipe out people like El Chapo years ago. But, the rich in our country make money from selling drugs just like cartels do which is why nothing is ever done. War on drugs? Not a single shot was fired by the U.S. Instead, we have spent a trillion dollars in Afghanistan guarding poppy fields. The Taliban destroyed more poppy fields than we did. And now, the Taliban is completely funded from sales of heroin while our trillion dollar troops just stand back and watch.
I was a Bernie delegate but I would not vote for him again.
2
Has there been an immigration raid in Trump hotels? If not why not?
5
I suspect that many of Native American heritage would say that most of us are illegals.
12
For 2016, the murder rate in El Salvador is 83 per 100,000, in Honduras 57 per 100,000, and in Guatemala 27 per 100,000.
The murder rate in St. Louis, Mo. is 60 per 100,000 and in Baltimore, Md. 55 per 100,000. These so called refugees are gaming the system, they are not persecuted by their governments, and they can find a place in their own country or a neighboring country that is safer than many U.S. cities. Their asylum cases should all be denied and they should be deported along with their children.
The law is the law” is an insanely ignorant justification. How many examples of immoral and inhumane laws are needed? Segregation. Separate but equal. Jim Crow. Slavery.
ICE has become a racist deportation force. Shame on anyone who chooses to work there. Double shame on the self righteous, purposely blind sheep who swallow Trump’s lies and ignore the plight of those fleeing violence in search of a better life. These new immigrants are the continuation of the American story. Our nation (and our economy!) is better because of them. Stop blaming them for an incompetent bureaucracy and a broken immigration system that can’t meet the labor needs of a demanding economic system.
6
Our large and rich country can afford to house and support everyone trying to get in. These "criminals" are people fleeing drug lords, torture, rats, rape. If it's a crime to want to live, they're committing a crime. We need a president with a heart, not an ego.
http://www.thecriticalmom.blogspot.com
2
Evangelicals give religion a bad name - nothing Christian about them. Republicans give themselves a bad name by being Trump’s Toads. Both only care about power and controlling others.
10
Enforcement of the law is very often cruel—whether it is fines, or forced labor, or incarceration, or torture like isolation, or death. The death of Jesus was cruel. That’s just reality.
Taking children from parents is more akin to torture than to simple law enforcement. It is totally unnecessary, totally reprehensible cruelty. There is zero excuse for this. It is a mean spirited hate crime.
Religion has nothing to offer the debate. It is about moral standards that transcend religious sects. The answers are not in ancient religious texts. It’s in our guts as we see a little three year old girl torn from a mother’s arms. You do not need religion to feel dirty and like puking.
2
Much religion is a fig leaf cult designed to hide bigotry and sexism.
The evangelicals fit into that category.
2
Mr. Hegar could do a little research. OR just understand some basics, maybe even the Ten Commandments.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jun/24/suddenly-the-left-loves...
Too many US citizens now want to stay forever in high cost, polluted, & densely packed US cities to mooch off of multi-generational welfare (ex. trashing Section 8/public housing, eating/trading junk food w/ SNAP, flipping prescription pain pills, etc.), bleeding heart charities, & escapist addictions (uppers, downers, opiates, booze, recreational weed, excessive porn/cable TV/videogaming, etc.) . . . while allegedly "holding out for higher-paying/non-manual labor" work &/or hocking their futures on ill-suited but ego-stroking college diplomas.
There are honest US farmers, vineyard owners, ranchers, factory managers, etc. who are willing to pay way above state & federal minimum wage (plus modest room/board/transport provided) for seasonal/temporary/permanent US citizen help - as long as said help can reasonably pass drug tests, are not significantly physically/psychologically dysfunctional, and have a solid work ethic!
Since too many US citizens don't want to move to farmlands, honest rural business owners who can afford to put up w/ red tape do resort to H2 visas.
US rural employers though who give false hope to illegal migrants & their families - by ignoring E-Verify & enabling human smuggling, trafficking, ID theft, fraud, worker exploitation, etc. - shld be imprisoned & hve their assets used to give illegal migrants start-over cash, for their 1-way trips back home as self-sufficient entrepreneurs who should band together to crush their gangs!
3
Great combination: conservatives and religious fundamentalists. Why don't we just deport everyone who isn't a native American and isn't a Christian. Hmmm... That might leave us with a population of maybe 10... This country is becoming easy to hate even having been born and raised in it.
3
The law is the law: Time to start jailing each and every protester who does ANYthing to harass or disturb the peace of women seeking abortion and other reproductive healthcare services!
4
the crucifixion of Jesus was totally legal. As was the Holocaust.
4
Would it be acceptable to round up all of these hypocritical evangelicals and place them in some large camp, in say Montana, and then build a wall around the entire state where they could all live in harmony with each other, and we could then rid ourselves of them from society and everyone could live in peace?????
Just saying.........
8
Religion is the poorest excuse for oprobious behavior.
2
“Because they are breaking the law.”
Huck Finn also decided to break the law by not turning in his friend, a fugitive slave named Jim.
“All right, then, I’ll go to hell,” Huck reflects before committing the crime of escorting a black man to freedom. “I would take up wickedness again,” Huck says. “And for a starter, I would go to work and steal Jim out of slavery again.”
Mark Twain knew it when he published the greatest American morality tale, Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, in 1885. In their heart of hearts evangelicals still know it today: what is lawful and what is moral are not always the same.
3
Were these people employed by someone? Maybe the employer was Jewish and thus it does not count.
1
Evangelicals who are following trump and feel like god sent him to be our leader will surely at some point realize that they have followed a tool of Satan to the depths of Hell. They and trump are turning the United States into a dark and dangerous place. Thank goodness their are sane religious conservatives fighting against this evil.
12
So all these fascists and racists think they are superior? What have they done for humanity that makes them so special? So they cannot stand being around the brown people whose fingerprints are all over the food they shove down their throats every darn day?
When there are no migrant workers left to cultivate their food, most of these racists will end up in line at the soup kitchens. Fox will tell them to blame Obama and they will! There is no hope for these people! They are a cult!!!
Thank you immigrants for the food you produce to feed our families every day!!! You deserve better treatment from all of us!!!
2
Breaking news -- every single meat packing plant in hogland is staffed by immigrants. You can't get bacon without them. It is a nasty dirty job. Killing and cutting animals all day long for minimum wage. Bathed in blood for your bacon. And it's the darnedest thing that good old white boys don't want them there jobs. But they sure do like to hate on immigrants. So Christian. So hypocritical.
3
As a Christian who attends an evangelical independent church, the actions of these "evangelical christians" disappoints me greatly. They sound much more like pharisees who pledge to the law than like Jesus who commanded us to love one another as Christ loved us.
2
I am not the least bit religious. I believe in helping others and donate time and money. That said, it’s not the government’s function to spend tax payers money on non citizens, ie here illegally. There is a legal process all need to adhere to. Taken to an extreme, the US would be caring for all of Central America. Where are the governments of those countries. Why have no protests against these inept “leaders” broken out in the US or their own countries.
1
Trump Republicans win again. Even if their immigration policies are deeply unpopular, they have succeeded yet again in re-directing people's grievances away from their true causes. It's not the immigrants' fault that a person has to work three jobs to barely make ends meet. That fault lies solely in Washington, where power and money have steadily increased their grip on what once was a democratic society, where everyone's voice mattered and every vote counted. If we don't want our children's futures to become a modern-day fiefdom, we must put an end to gerrymandering, super-pacs, and the concentrated power among the .01% that goes along with those things.
3
The source of the conditions that result in disputes about aliens is muddled by the jumble of 'arguments' in public opinion...and illustrated in the Pleasantville case. There is theology, law, economics, sociology, ideology and POLITICS all scrambled and so hampering any 'objective' assessment of either the condition, or a remedy that merits public trust.
What constitutes dismay is perception of what 'America' is destined is changing. What majority today would stand by:
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Our past is becoming an anachronism. For lack of vision of the economic and social transformation in progress, we scramble reason and emotion in descrying events such as in the article.
Every day, I think about both of my sets of grandparents, all four of whom were immigrants fleeing poverty in their home countries of Italy and Ireland. The Irish side, of course, spoke English. My Italian grandparents always had a difficult time with the language. Yet they worked menial jobs to support their families, and turned out successful children, many of whom fought for their countries in WWII, worked hard and raised successful American citizens. I am of an age to remember when, as a child, moving with my father from Navy town to Navy town, being looked on with distaste by WASP'y New Englanders, because we were "dirty Italians". It breaks my heart to see some friends and relatives from this same background, with immigrant grandparents, shunning America's newest immigrants. I can understand wanting to manage immigration, but why the hatred? We are all "immigrants" unless you are Native American.
4
"No charges have been filed against the owners of the Midwest Precast Concrete plant in Mount Pleasant that was raided. "
It's strange the "conservatives" don't understand the law of supply and demand. As long as we punish the job seekers and let the employers off the hook, there will be an unending supply of desperate people.
If every person who hired illegal immigrants were given significant fines and jail time after the second infraction, this problem would go away. Why is e-verify not the law instead of the exception? How much are we spending on rounding up illegals, keeping their children, squeezing them through the system, when most will just stay anyway. We need to enforce the borders, but we need to remove the incentive for coming here and that starts with employers who turn a blind eye, when it comes to illegal workers, who they can pay less and deny benefits. We are subsidizing businesses who are knowingly breaking the law.
1
Since the manufacture of cement accounts for five to seven percent of greenhouse gas emissions, maybe the best approach would be to curb the use of it. That would cut down on those emissions and cut back on the supposed need (in the plant managers' view) to hire the undocumented.
I’d like to read some NYTimes articles investigating the immigration and labor laws and practices of the countries with highest levels of undocumented workers coming to the US (and it’s not all Latin American countries) and of European countries such as Ireland, Poland, Russia which also have numbers of illegal or undocumented people in the US.
What would an American wishing to live and work there face? How easy is it to attain legal status as a worker? To gain the equivalent of a green card? Citizenship? Why kinda of jobs would be available? What protections? Would the American emigre individual and family receive publicly-funded benefits such as health insurance or health care (including dental and vision)? Food assistance? Free education — even elite education such as top magnet schools — for their kids? Do the public schools offer bilingual classes for kids who don’t speak the countries’ official language? Etc etc
Such articles would assist readers in gaining some important perspective, and perhaps inform US international relations (perhaps sign some sort of right-to/work reciprocity treaty with some other countries?)
1
Where were those people calling for obedience when Obama was president? It makes me sad, knowing how many immigrants have joined Evangelical churches, that their fellow Evangelicals don't see them as the hardworking, god-fearing people they are. "Go back and do it legally" - there is no way to do that.
1
“We’ve got enough poor people here in Iowa that need help,” Mr. King said. “I work three jobs and still live paycheck to paycheck.”
And somehow he thinks that deporting others in the community will help him not live pay check to pay check? I'm very confused at how dissatisfaction at inequality manifests itself not in trying to address the inequality (maybe they should raise taxes to provide more services for low income families or better education so there's more of a chance to escape that life), but by attacking others that are in an even more desperate situation. I doubt the jobs at that concrete plant paid those immigrants better than a custodian. And I doubt they would pay anybody much for the job illegal immigrant or not
2
I wonder if readers who believe illegal immigrant or undocumented workers are blameless also think that workers who cross union picket lines are also completely blameless?
1
What kind of world are we living in? Deporting and arresting people who want to work is basically wrong.
Give great credit to the Presbyterian minister who is living his faith. He probably has some church members who are grumbling. Jesus taught us about the grumblers.
But a more bottom line issue for Mt. Pleasant; deport all those illegals and you will have no town. They do the jobs that no one else will do.
1
On this day especially, " We find these truths to be self evident. That all men are created equal.", we find some more equal than orhers., especially those with capital. Those are the cement factory owners of course. No charges!!?? And why is that? It is illegal to hire illegals and there is, I believe, an electronic system that companies can access to find out the status of the applicant for employment.
Write your congressperson to demand the equal protection under the law for owners as well as workers who ignore immigation laws.
OH, and by the way don'e forget to call the White House and let the self rightous occupant know that--
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
I would also hope that all will notice we are the " United States of America" and not America. Mexico is as much "American" as the United States of America. As is Canada, Cuba, the Bahamas and there are 19 more independent countries and that does not count 20 or so dependent territories of which Greenland a territory of Denmark. Yes, Greenland is American too!
So let's not expropiate a whole continent to further inflate our already grandiose view of ourselves. Trump has enough of that for all of us.
1
The Bible does on occasion strongly support "helping criminals". However, both the old and New Testament repeatedly say that aliens should be welcomed. The Bible in several places specifically forbids criminalizing aliens, eg "There must be only one law, for native and foreigner."
Bible verses on other subjects are instructive. For example, in the Gospel of Luke Jesus says that for people who treat little children like we do to some immigrant's children, it would be better to be thrown into the sea with a large stone tied around your neck.
Jesus was also very specific about those who believed they served God (including those who claimed to have been born again) but who instead loved Another Master. At judgement Jesus will condemn them for not serving the poor, the ill and the oppressed, and proclaim "I never knew you!"
3
Clearly, the Bible condemns I’ll treatment of immigrants (“strangers”). If someone like me strongly believes in this religious prohibition, may we lawfully refuse to serve supporters and explain-awayers of trumpian immigrant abuse at our restaurants? What if a local human rights commissioner rolls his eyes at my reason for refusing to serve them? Is my choice then protected by the US Constitution? Would some Senator please ask this question to all trump judicial nominees?!
1
We are spending a lot of money to terrorize brown people that cold be spent on improving infrastructure.
This summer distraction to fuel hate doesn’t come cheap nor is it free
2
Why rely on quoting from a text which is full of contradictions to make your arguments? There is a reason for the separation of church and state. What does godliness have to do with laws? Either you are a truly compassionate person or you're not. Refer to the spirit of your religion for guidance. This writing of contradictory passages in places like Facebook is nonsensical and achieves nothing. These supposedly moral Christians are also the ones that vote for people that are accused of molesting minors. I wonder which passages they would have quoted then. Jeff Sessions bringing God into the whole thing (or Huckabee Sanders saying it's biblical) is alarming and a bit backwards for a developed country.
The Evangelicals are confused about the Bible. They support a president who has broken seven of the Ten Commandments, but call for criminal punishment for a person without documents working at a job no American will take. Every once in a while the Evangelicals (who defended slavery until very recently) should take a look at the New Testament once or twice a year.
2
"This whole immigration thing has been an 'abstraction'"
said state Rep Dave Heaton, a Republican.
Surely some mistake, perhaps he meant a distraction. Nevertheless a clueless comment whatever he meant.
People wouldn't come illegally into our country if they didn't know they could get a job. It's the Americans who hire them that should go to jail. That would solve the whole problem.
The problem is obvious just by looking at the pictures. The church has nothing but old people. The writer doesn't mention anything about the ages of the white population. The people who were arrested are all younger with younger families. So, when the cement plant can't replace the people and closes does that help the town of Mt Pleasant? Odd name for the town as depicted in this article though isn't it?
Anti-immigrant Christians are in serious moral jeopardy.
20
The hypocritical evangelicals should not forget that thing about reaping what you sow.
24
Exactly...they are not Christians. They are blasphemers at best and work as the Devils advocates . In another century they would have been burned at the stake for Blasphemy.
1
Jesus broke the law too Hypocritical Evangelicals
That’s why the Romans crucified him
Want to deport him as well?
25
If Joseph, Mary and Jesus were fleeing from Herod today and crossed the American border, Evangelicals would be happy to have Joseph and Mary put in prison and Jesus in a tender care center where he might be sold off.
A brown-skinned homeless person? Of COURSE they’d turn him away!
Today, the prosperity-preaching Pharisees among conservative Christianists would crucify Jesus Christ in a bloodlust heartbeat.
I worked alongside many of these people in southeast Iowa when I was in high school. During the summers, I earned extra money for school by picking tomatoes and detasseling corn, so I made some friends who were doing the same thing. One was earning money for law school in Guadalajara, where she is now a lawyer.
Facing anti-immigration crack downs in the Czech Republic, where I have mostly lived since 2009, I'm beginning to appreciate a few of the complexities of those who are not fleeing violence, but are simply wanting a better life. My employer has always been my defender in the work visa process, but also the sole owner of my position in the country in such a way as to have a great deal of power over me.
The fear of immigrants 'stealing' jobs is ludicrous to me since most of the jobs being filled by immigrants are open to anyone who will do them - anyone. Employers are in a tough spot trying to remain profitable while also trying to deal with increasing demands and costs of visas.
It would be a great benefit to all if a more straight-forward visa process were put in place.
14
And, that's a problem. The businesses want cheap labor, temporary immigration rather than letting wages and benefits rise and attract U.S. workers.
Trump's the classic hypocrite. He goes on about claiming he supports *American* workers, but keeps hiring *foreign* workers for his resorts!
If we're going to have a system of “guest workers”, those people should be on a pathway to citizenship if they desire.
17
In the U.S., H-2A visas, temporary agricultural work visas have no cap. For any year, there are an unlimited number available to farmers, ranchers, and dairy producers.
4
Why on earth isn't the employer detained or in jail or at least charged? Laws were broken....
What kind of country is this?
We attack the vulnerable?
Apparently we are a country whose goals are the afflict the afflicted and comfort the comfortable. And it is becoming more so every day.
We shall be begging for mercy because of our hard hearted attitudes. Politics and religion are a toxic combination for so many reasons.
"A country of laws" is a chant against the poor. Let's hear " a country of laws" applied to money laundering, the emoluments clause, tax evasion, campaign finance irregularities, and loads of other rich person crimes.
27
Yeah Joan. What kind of country is it?
When small businesses, factories, empty tenant houses, will be affected by lack of sensible immigration reform, then people will change their minds. The only way that Americans see anything is through dollars. Righteous Christian are entitled idiots, not seeing the very true in the Bible. Good hearted Christians are pious people that follow the Bible entirely, not only verses of convenience.
10
Whether or not you accept Jesus Christ, as your Lord and Savior, by pure literary merit, he is the ultimate outlaw messiah. Throughout the New Testament, Jesus hung out with a litany of downtrodden and misguided people: lepers, prostitutes, the poor, women and children. Jesus was the ultimate defender of these people, and spent his entire life helping them.
The audacity of Jeff Sessions, to misquote the Holy Bible, and claim that the Bible condones the separation of children from their families, in order to justify enforcing the law, and deterring people seeking refuge and asylum, is pure blasphemy.
Let us be clear, throughout both the Old and New Testaments, the Bible makes it crystal clear, that God is on the side of the poor, women, children and the sick-all of whom have been the target of Trump’s policies, and Sessions enforcement of them.
If anyone ever doubted there is Evil in this world, the events of the past week, are proof positive that there is.
As Lou Reed once stated, “It takes a bus load of Faith to get by”. This is indeed a time for believers. All aboard!
20
That's why it is ironically funny that so many evANGELicals quote far more Old Testament scripture than the word of Jesus.
And yet they call themselves 'Christians'...
15
Actually, if you read the bible (and I have read it cover to cover 13 times), you find interesting nuggets like condoning selling your own daughters into slavery to pay your debts. (Exodus 21:7-11)
And take a gander at how many times it was okay to go into another area and kill every man, woman, and child...all with God's blessing. The term is genocide but no one holds the Hebrews accountable for committing genocide against the Canaanites and about 6 other races of people.
The bible is the last book I would ever look to for moral anything. Long before Islam decided to kill homosexuals, the bible had given the command. In fact, the bible tells us to kill homosexuals about a thousand or more years before Islam picked up on it.
We had to memorize bible verses every night for 8 years in school when I was growing up. As a gay kid, being told everyday in school that homos should be killed but that Jesus loved me was quite a head trip.
Sessions is correct in quoting the bible as evidence for ripping children from their mothers.
I find bringing scripture into the picture very arrogant. If it's your bible and your religion, great, but if not it's irrelevant. just because it's what u happen to believe in doesn't make it right.
8
If Jim Erwin is so pro law, he should support prosecution of the company hiring undocumented workers, right?
20
Those who support decent treatment for the workers - do yourself a favor and remove all trump voters from your lives - its liberating and vastly improves the quality of your life - I know - I am trump supporter FREE.
15
I would never allow one in my house. And if I discovered that someone already here was a supporter, I would immediately tell them to go and never return. It’s about keeping pure evil at bay.
3
Why does history have to repeat itself?
6
There is nothing Christlike about the way the evangelical church operates today. Any reporting even flirting with the contrary is disingenuous and wrong.
12
Evangelicals want to impose their religion on all Americans and therefore they support their savior, Donald J. Trump, no matter how immoral his behavior or policies, so long as he continues to the weaken the separations of church and state.
25
And be tax free because it is a "charitable" organization.
Each person in this story needs to "stand down" from their first "shoot from the hip" opinion and follow their own logic, examine their own charitable responsibility to others, and research our laws and (immigration) rules. They might end up with very different conclusions about other people.
‘This is Godly...God allowed it...’
God allowed the Holocaust. Rwanda. Pol Pot...
Seriously, you want to go there?
37
No charges have been filed against the owners of the Midwest Precast Concrete plant in Mount Pleasant that was raided. An ICE spokesman declined to comment
What about zero tolerance?
Are those owners a member of a church?
Why isn’t it news that no one from that company would provide a quote
Or that no church leader spoken to recognized the owners of the plant as church members?
I think that’s news.
Not the self-serving statement of a fellow business owner.
15
Of all the articles I've seen on this topic, I appreciate the sensitivity of this one the most because it deals with difficult emotions. Being from southeast Iowa, I had high school summer jobs picking tomatoes and detassling where I was the only person who didn't speak Spanish. I made a few friends in the field, one of whom was a law student who came up for the summers to earn money for her law school in Guadalajara. She's now a layer there. I thought nothing of it until I found myself an expat going through the immigration process in Europe. With the anti-immigration sentiment in the Czech Republic, living here has its stresses. I've found my biggest visa defender to be my employer, and my biggest security to be working. I have the luxury of calling myself an expat, while many of
9
Seems like it comes down to a conflict between god and Caesar, really... if you choose to pledge you fealty to Caesar, the answer’s pretty simple. Likewise the converse, though not so obvious from the reactions...
2
I once heard about a young couple who fled across the border with their baby in their arms and nothing but the clothes on their backs. They had no visa. They were seeking asylum because the government in their home country threatened to kill their baby. Mary and Joseph were, of course, deported back to Judea where Herod murdered them. Jesus was placed in an overcrowded institution for many months, and then in a series of foster homes. He ended up working as a day laborer in construction, and struggled with alcoholism and depression his entire life. How can those supposed Christians fail to see their Holy Family in the faces of these poor, frightened and desperate migrants? I'm not even Christian, and I see it.
33
"The son of God came into this world as a homeless person." I didn't say it. Pope Francis did.
26
I’m surprised the debate didn’t resolve the issue, after all, most religious debates end well. Don’t they?
4
The religious will use religion to justify anything. The Nazis did well in Germany due to that same idea.
25
The Nazis used ‘Romans 13’ and Jeff Sessions just did the same recently.
12
Rather than debates among people who are reacting out of emotion - on either side of the argument - how about our elected representatives doing something above the fray.
How about proposing a revamp of immigration law and process that does a few smart things.
Like these:
- a program that recognizes that a tremendous number of American business rely on labor that immigrants provide. Whether it's the ones mentioned in this article in Iowa, or meat processing plants in Georgia, or farms in Wisconsin and California.
Your vegetables aren't being picked by Americans most of the time.
We need common sense for how such workers can come and go across the border in an orderly program that acknowledges the need for them and protects them.
- a pathway to citizenship for those who have been here for years and are productive, law-abiding people. This includes the Dreamers who were brought in as children.
- asylum reform. We need to recognize that the lawless, failing societies in Central America from where people are escaping are nations we recklessly destabilized in the 1980s with intrusive policies. Face it, our taxes and actions led to the exodus we are dealing with at our border. So, we have to provide some relief and take some responsibility. Family separation doesn't have to happen.
- border security for truly lawless types. We know that mom's and kids are not that. Let's be honest.
Gallop poll: 75% of Americans think immigration is good for America.
Ideas now!
37
All of the above and presentation of FACTS surrounding immigrants :
How MS 13 is not the threat that allows cover
for racist remarks and actions
That we have a labor shortage So pls tell
whose job is being threatened?
More please
10
In the rural south and Midwest a large percentage of working age men and women can’t get jobs because they can’t pass a pre employment drug test or are simply too addicted to heroin and pills to hold down any sort of job. The economies of these places actually rely on migrant workers to keep those farms, slaughter houses, ethanol plants and cement factories going and their wages are what supports the local businesses just as their never to be claimed social security and Medicare contributions keep those federal programs solvent. In many cases the drug addicted locals are being supported in that way by the migrants as well since rural southern states in particular refer these local white folk for federal relief( because there is no state money for them). If these “ illegal” people were to suddenly disappear from our country all at once, chaos would be the result. In fact I’m pretty sure that if 20% were suddenly not here, chaos would still be the result.
26
I hope the towns who treat immigrants unfairly end up with rotten crops, sick/ dead animals, rising prices (as there are fewer people to do the work), poor childcare and lack of healthcare (a lot of nursing aide/ eldercare/ childcare work is done by immigrants). Immigrants do a lot of jobs that others do not want to do.
Looking at if from a very practical point of view, people would not be immigrating illegally to this country if there were a lack of jobs and a need for people to do them. These issues have been around for decades. I recently learn about the US "bracero" program in the early 20th century where border guards and employers would look the other way when they needed laborers and then crack down on them when politics changed. Of course, these two ends would cycle back and forth since the US was constantly in need of labor.
I would love it if we could talk about immigration practically without the racism and xenophobia. After all, as hundreds of comments have noted before me, why are workers being arrested when their employers aren't?
20
It's not just any labor.....it's cheap labor that won't squawk about low wages or lousy conditions.
15
I like it. A liberal pox on thee! Your views are different so I hope you all become opiate addicts because that's what you deserve.
Jeesh...you can have sympathy for these people while also not supporting the fact that a significant percentage of people working at a cement plant in America happen to be illegal immigrants.
I mean, I'm all for Legal immigration. I want to make it faster and easier and more focused on merit. However, what I'd I'd really like to see more than anything is for the owners of that cement plant to go to prison for a long time for employing illegal immigrants. I think we should amnesty everyone here AFTER sealing the border and then prosecute anyone who continues to employ illegal immigrants.
As for these people getting deported, I think Congress should make a law to give them the right go stay. Until then, the rule of law is the foundation of our society and I cant support picking and choosing which laws to follow. Any activism should be directed at Congress in my opinion.
2
Not actually true- where their labor is most needed, they have organized to demand and have received better pay and working conditions, although the threat of deportation is certainly a tool that employers have used to keep wages low. The tomato pickers in Florida are an example of “ illegals” not only getting better wages and safer conditions but actually won a major lawsuit after their children began to be born with terrible deformities from being forced to work in the fields still wet with pesticides- see the book Tomatoland for that story
2
I would suggest to Mr. King, First Presbyterian's custodian, that he take a serious look at the fact that he's working three jobs in the richest country in history, and he's living paycheck to paycheck. If he continues to do the same thing at the ballot box, I don't see him getting a different result in his circumstances. Those circumstances have pretty much nothing to do with folks working in chicken processing plants, meat packing plants or pre- cast concrete operations. Ditto manual labor in agriculture. Mr. King's circumstances originate much higher up on the food chain,so to speak.
42
But anyway tRumps policies will lift that custodian up out of poverty and he too will be able to afford the finer things in life, like mayhap an Eastern European wife.
1
I know the Democratic party leaders are turning somersaults in their efforts to deny that their (our) party favors open borders, but I am one liberal who does support this much overlooked solution to a longstanding problem. Prior to 1930, the borders between Mexico and the U.S. were porous. Agriculture, especially, loved Mexican workers as long as they didn't ask for citizenship.
Workers from south of the border, documented or not, have for the most part always been employed in the lowest paying, dirtiest, least desirable jobs for which non-immigrant applicants are in very short supply. Just take a look at the roofers working in the hot sun across the street and ask yourself if they are taking your job.
It costs many billions of dollars to patrol the border and chase down those who eluded capture. To what end? Little more than half a million would enter the U.S. permanently since, without the danger of repeated border crossings, many workers would prefer seasonal employment. Moreover, the money returned to Mexico in remittances could have a mitigating effect on the need for future Northern emigration.
Open borders would save lives, save money and considerably reduce the internal political hostilities we are now enduring. All without taking away jobs that U.S. citizens want.
13
Yes, as a matter of fact, those roofers across the street, if working for less than a living wage and without legally-required protections because their employer skirts the law by hiring workers he knows he can exploit because of their immigration status — yes, they ARE taking away my citizen friend’s job and all the jobs he would provide to his employees. He didn’t get that job because your neighbor across the street chose to save a few bucks by hiring a roofing outfit that exploits vulnerable workers! Shame on you, my fellow liberal, for thinking it’s a forgone conclusion that certain work should be underpaid and that its proper for vulnerable workers to do them!
And as for totally open borders, obviously you’re not from Shanksville, PA (site of 9/11 terror murders). Are you really so naive that you think totally open borders wouldn’t be used by others set on harming the US (and all here, immigrant or citizen) by easily entering Mexico (or Canada for that matter) on a tourist or other visa, stepping into the US and doing who knows what...
9
No the workers are not TAKING jobs, the employer is making a legal and moral choice to displace legal workers with those lacking permission to work. No undocumented immigrant is threatening to whack the employer's kid or dog if not hired in place of a cuurent worker. Apologists for employers engaged in criminal behavior should be asking themselves why they wish to be complicit in what is probably a felony. Have they themselves always been potential criminals or is this a crime of opportunity?
We also weren’t a welfare state back then. Most people wouldn’t care about immigration if middle class Americans weren’t having to shoulder the burden of providing health care, education, housing, food, etc etc to these people and their many children with their tax dollars, while also dealing with the increased cost of housing, healthcare and education for themselves and their own children as a result of the mass influx of poor people.
7
A year or two ago, possibly before the advent of the trump administration, I was seeing someone off at a local bus terminal, and saw ICE agents checking departing bus passengers' papers. At the time, I thought it was a bit irregular, but then forgot about it - until the caging and separation of asylum-seeking families thrust ICE into public attention.
Does ICE have the authority to question anyone, anywhere? If so, it seems to be neither consistent with the rule of law, nor even constitutional. Is the United States degenerating into a "show me your papers" society?
18
You can not serve two Gods, you either serve Jesus or you serve Donald Trump.
33
Mr. Trump-Gorbachev, Tear Down This Wall!
And build it where it belongs.
Around Republican businesses that hire illegal aliens at slave labor wages paid under the table in cash!
The old Reagan lie that Americans won't do this work anymore ignores the law of supply and demand that says that increased wages or new technology will meet the need for labor- always.
This has been going on for decades with the irony that the children of the original illegals under Reagan as Americans won't work for the same cash only low wages that brought their parents from El Salvador so that Republican businesses need new illegals. Forever.
3
If the Bible doesn't support helping criminals well then why are you supporting a president who brags about grabbing female private parts (i.e., sexual assault) and by all indication has done so on many accounts? Isn't adultery one of your top ten? Why is that ok? Or is hypocrisy part of your religion for the pseudo-Christians?
33
Evangelical charlatans. The God they profess to follow only chooses the white folks, no education necessary.
31
No human being is illegal
20
Nor alien.
3
How about the NYT go back in six months and see how many of these jobs "real" [that's dripping with sarcasm, in case it wasn't clear] Americans have rushed in to fill.
24
3.8% unemployment
Exactly how do you steal jobs from a full employment economy?
10
There is not a faith divide. You are either hot or cold. Jesus’s teachings are clear and the Bible also teaches that in the last days perilous times will come. Please don’t confuse secular politics to Christianity. Many evangelicals have forgotten their first love and have embraced a doctrine of politics over Jesus.
22
All the more reason for evangelicals to support Trump, he’s actually giving them a concrete thing for them to put their money where their mouth is on, in supporting these undocumented workers. Bake sales to raise money for immigration lawyers builds cohesion and is good for the soul. Without this their faith just might otherwise feel like an empty vessel, and Trump and Sessions are making it possible.
1
Naming a restaurant. Mexico, as opposed to merely being a Mexican restaurant, in Iowa, might be a bit of a tip off right there. Usually a Corona beer sign in the window is enough.
2
So-called Christian Evangelicals will support Trump on every issue because he is their man in the White House who will undo Roe vs Wade, gay marriage and all the other things these so-called Christians hate.
But business groups in general, for example business lobby groups sponsored and funded by the Koch Brothers continue to promote low-skill immigration into the USA.
All the reports in the US media agree on this. Here's one from January this year:
'We cannot support arbitrary cuts to future legal immigration levels,” said Daniel Garza, president of The LIBRE Initiative, which is backed by the Koch brothers. “We welcome a debate about whether our current legal immigration policy properly balances family and skills-based migration. But that broad debate should not distract from the immediate goal of providing certainty to Dreamers and enhancing security.”'
http://fortune.com/2018/01/28/koch-brothers-immigration-daca/
Here's another one published just a month and a half ago, on 17 May this year:
'Washington (CNN) An immigration-overhaul advocacy group backed by the influential Koch brothers is sending out a series of political mailers aimed at backing pro-immigration members of Congress -- including a handful of Democrats.'
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/05/17/politics/immigration-koch-brothers-li...
8
I like this Rev. Trey Hegar. He is leading by example in the best possible way. Hegar and his congregation are living their faith. They are taking as their guide the every best parts of the Bible, e.g., "the sermon on the mount."
16
In the county where I live the unemployment situation is the same and the farmers need the Hispanics to care for their crops because few people would do the job. Today was almost 90 degrees and they were out working by hand in the fields.
As far as the evangelical churches go, I had a friend who went to one for over 10 years and when her husband left her for a stripper, almost 20 years younger her church was no support at all. She should have done more to keep him happy been a better wife, etc.
17
Just curious: where do these farmers (really just business people who operate a farm) advertise their job openings? And what is the compensation package they offer? And the working conditions?
My guess is that if they offered a good compensation package, reasonable working conditions (including cooling stations, good catering for meals and snacks, ample sunscreen & shades and bug repellent etc, along with OSHA-like health and safety conditions...) and opportunity for advancement, lots of US citizens would do it. Every year, thousands of US citizen teens and 20-somethings work and live in hot, humid summer camps as counselors, spending much of their day, often 6-7 days/week and for very little pay, running around after groups of active children — who are also living active lives in 90- degree daytime heat. And before air conditioning, we all lived and worked this way.
Think about the very dangerous and unpleasant conditions of oil rig workers. no one (American or otherwise) would want to do those jobs, whether in the middle of the Gulf off of Texas or in the desolation of the Dakota wilds, were it not for the famously-high compensation they are offered!
The point is not the nature of the work itself drives away American citizens who know their rights, and instead attract immigrants who don’t know, or can’t enforce, their rights. It’s the exploitative nature of the compensation and and employer-imposed working conditions.
5
I'd do it for $40/hr and full benefits. You already pay 500% more for a product labelled organic. Why not 30% more for decent wages, workers comp, and paid vacations?
6
American (USA) forigen policy has been so disruptive and corrosive to Central and South America for so long people think it’s normal. Why doesn’t the Times run a series of articles about the criminal antics of everything from the illegal appropriation of the western states from Mexico to Iran Contra? The only place you are safe from the catistrophic and evil reach of the USA, is in the USA. The rest of the world understands what Americans don’t. America makes its own rules, backs tyrants and is a hugely destabilizing force in the world. Many of these immigrants are fleeing ruthless gangs and massive corruption born in the aftermath of American self serving interference in their countries (so they can come here and clean toilets, be abused by employers and scapegoated by Trump) An endless supply of American drug addiction cash makes fixing problems back home impossible. Same thing in the Middle East, except those victims don’t want jobs, they want to destroy us. Those church going folks in the heartland, along with a huge majority of their fellow citizens need a history lesson, which is never going to happen with defunded schools teaching creationism. So you reap, so shall you sow...
15
Wow, reminds me of some of those fire and brimstone preachers you probably hate. The evil policies of America have brought a pestilence upon OUR country. By any chance have you raised your voice against Russian or Iranian interference in Syria or the war crimes against tens of thousands of children there? No? Wonder why not since you are so outraged about American intervention. Regarding gangs, it is time for the people of Central America to stand up and possibly even give their lives to create better conditions in THEIR homeland. To expect any less of them, is, well a little racist...
The question for people who claim to be Christians is what would Jesus have done, would he have imprisoned these poor migrants and deported them? No, I suggest Jesus would have treated them with kindness and compassion something evangelicals do not believe in.
Evangelicals are a modern day version of the Pharisees, or hypocrites who do not practice what they preach.
22
Jesus and his family WERE undocumented migrants, according to my understanding of Christian scriptures. Heck, even a Jew like me can see that. We have been strangers in many lands, and sought asylum from many others. Many of us see ourselves in those faces on the border. And we remember a nation that refused entry to our own families fleeing Nazi Germany. The motives were the same then, and so were the rationalizations. It makes me ill.
9
Evangelicals who let politics lead their actions are without moral character
Pray all you want You still will never meet St Peter
3
I think everyone can pretty much agree that there is nothing even remotely “Christian” about evangelicals. They are by and large a group of ultra-conservative, nativist, white supremacists, who would like nothing better than to institute - and in many of the more remote areas already haveinstituted - their own version of ‘Sharia law.’
22
To be fair, let's specify WHITE evangelicals. I don't see non-white evangelicals going full bigot.
3
Educate the ignorant, for they are scared of what they do not know.
Lesson #1:
Arresting model employees at work discourages them from going to work - and that discourages them from being contributing members to our economy and to our society - and actively pushes them toward desperation and crime to survive.
Lesson #2:
Illegal immigrants contributed a net positive $7 billion to our economy, as measured by economists who study data and not color - because many pay taxes, often illegally using fraudulent IDs, but do not receive government benefits. They also spend money they earn on local goods and services and pay property and sales taxes.
Lesson #3:
If you think "God allowed" you to elect a president who said that he has assaulted women, calls Nazis fine people, ran his contractors out of business because he didn't want to pay them, declared bankruptcy 6 times to cheat his vendors, and stole college tuition money by running a fake university - you might want to have another talk with Him to clear up a few things.
23
Like many other posters here, I think ALL CRIMINALS should go to prison. Including everybody in the country who has ever driven 57 mph in a 55 mph zone, those that have thrown snowballs in Topeka (where doing so is ILLEGAL). those who have cursed while driving in Maryland (where doing so is ILLEGAL), those who have ever played frisbee golf in Montana (where doing so is ILLEGAL), those who have ever danced in South Carolina on a Sunday (when it is ILLEGAL to do so). All these people are CRIMINALS, and I don't care what else they have going on in their lives, YOU DO THE CRIME, YOU DO THE TIME!!!
15
Or cheated on their income taxes, or texted while driving, or any number of small petty infractions of the law. The true crime of all of this is the business owners get no penalty, not even a whack on the hand. And you know full well they knew they were hiring illegals and did it anyway. Because if Trump has shown the world anything, it’s that if you’re rich and/or a business owner the laws don’t really apply to you.
If only things could be as simple as they were back in Jesus’ day, considering that being born unattended to in a dirty stable alone would now be considered child neglect. Who knows where he’d end up being placed today. Joseph and Mary would need some good lawyers to get him back, and God would be cited for child abandonment.
5
Christians need to remember that on the night their beloved Savior was born, his parents were fleeing a ruthless dictator who was determined to kill him. He was born in the back of a barn. So, he was technically a refugee as these immigrants are. And he was NOT WHITE. Instead of looking for verses that back up your hatred of brown-skinned immigrants who are desperately running away from terrifying situations, why not focus on how much these people have in common with Jesus Christ and how He would want them to be treated.
18
But what do you mean by he wasn’t white? None of us knows what the actual person called Jesus looked like. (Although he most certainly did not speak English, as some urban-legend English-only mayors are said to have claimed.)
4
He (Jesus) was also a Jew, and he practiced Judaism - as were and did his parents. And he and his parents were not of the upper-classes of their society.
8
Pretty sure there weren’t a lot of white people hanging out in Israel 2000 years ago. I mean, I guess he could have been a white immigrant in Israel, but do you really expect people to not see the irony in that.
The true Christians stood up. Christ didn’t equivocate.
3
Trump/GOp has truly ripped America apart. Pass a common sense immigration bill; which will never happen until the GOP is voted out. Ray Sipe
7
From the outside, it seems there is a big difference between normal Christians and White Evangelicals. Are WEs really religious people or is it just a way for Racists and Bigots to band together and write off 10% or 15% of their earnings?
8
Those that hire illegals should pay a heavy price. It's not fair in many ways: it drives down the lowest pay scales for for our young folks,the 30% of our working age unskilled unemployed, for farmers contractors restaurants etc that play by the rules/law...competition becomes impossible.
Now, the cheaters win and we're developing a permanent 2 tier society.
Worst of all every person that travels through Mexico illegally must pay criminal gangs 5k each,often paid by illegals already here though gang networks that are here also.
Regardless your spiritual beliefs or political stances or form of government...what's happening is not logical,sustainable or fair.
7
I would like to hear from farm and factory owners. Is it difficult to find workers for the physically difficult jobs? Will Americans do this work? Squat in fields picking our juicy strawberries? Carve carcasses all day in a freezer? Even restaurant work washing dishes and floors all day? I'm sure there are many Americans who do this work for low wages. Are there enough? Do we need these immigrants?
Probably Jesus would say welcome the stranger.
3
I'll believe the Republicans care about this illegal immigration when the owners of Cargill or another of the slaughterhouse giants are dragged into court. Until then, it's just a way to keep voters angry and divided against each other.
9
Trump supporters who argue that migrants should simply "go back" and apply to come here legally betray their ignorance of the plight of so many (most?) of these people. Maybe we should all figure out a non-threatening way to educate such folks about the circumstances that drive migrants here, i.e., gang threats, murder, rape, extortion. A few excellent documentaries come to mind, among them "La Bestia".
3
Evangelical support for Trump and his horrible actions and words is the clearest sign that this religion is false, twisted and nothing more than another power structure trying to control people. It has nothing to do with Jesus, Christianity, love or faith in general. It's all about authoritarianism, harsh punishments, judging others, shaming and demonizing people they don't like or agree with, and controlling people's lives -- ALL people, not just those unfortunate souls in their churches. Just keep singing Trump's praises and showing the world your hypocrisy -- better for everyone to know what you are.
8
But that’s the thing with the Bible... there’s so many contradictions in it and interpretations that you can cherry pick it to say whatever you want.
Exodus 21: “When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years.” Should we follow that? Oh no, that’s the Old Testament.
Ephesians 6:5 “Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear.” Oh, that’s the New International Version, that doesn’t count, right?
This goes on and on. Trying to quote the Bible will never win an argument even amongst the religious groups because there’s always a counter quote or some gotcha.
But to know Jesus holistically as he was described by any Christian denomination, he was a man of peace who welcomed all. No Bible quote is needed to debate this. And with that, these Evangelicals are no Christians at all. Christ is not within them no matter how many biblical quotes they can recite. The bigger message is lost on them. Their fear of the other is greater than their faith.
4
It is definitely NOT the heartland
6
Yes we American Citizen were all immigrants to this country at one time in our own family history. Some of us came to the United States of America in the 19th Century long before and following World War Two, a time still within current American memory. Yes, Nazis killed defenseless and innocent men, women and children --- Jews, gypsies and others. Righteous Christians in Germany and other European countries aided and hid these endanger people. Earlier in time, suffering people came to our shores from Ireland as a consequence of The Potato Famine, and some came from Scotland fleeing intense British oppression. Why don't more Americans remember the suffering of their own family member not so long ago and Identify with and help the current people in need of compassion and shelter. Remember, Suffering Immigrants Build Our Prosperous and Great Country
4
Um, none of the Native American Indians are immigrants, and they are citizens. How easily the rest of us immigrants all) forget or conveniently deny.
2
This makes it obvious why evangelicals support trump. They're pretty much just like him. Jesus? Who's that?
11
Are these undocumented breaking the law? Sure. So are people who steal to feed themselves and their families. In both cases, I believe they should be treated with mercy. They should not have their families broken up or thrown into for-profit detention camps and private prisons.
These Trump worshipers are fake Christians. They despise the poor and idolize the rich.
15
Interesting that not one of the supporters of Trump’s policies acknowledges that the employers of the detained workers are also breaking the law. Unless you are willing to back E-verify and prosecute the employers as well as illegal border crossers, you really aren’t serious about solving the immigration problem.
30
"No charges have been filed against the owners of the Midwest Precast Concrete plant in Mount Pleasant that was raided."
This is proof of Trump's lack of seriousness about "doing something" about undocumented workers in the US.
By only bringing charges against the workers, who are actually closer to being victims in these cases rather than criminals, Trump can excite his base while not really putting a scare in the various industries that exploit these workers. Also, by having access to a steady supply of undocumented workers they can escape natural market forces which would normally force them to raise their salaries until legal workers filled those jobs.
This is corporate welfare.
23
With the debate about the role - and abolishing ICE - the Dems should really promote a bipartisan, fact-based review and study of the mission, operational responsibilities and policies of the immigration agency - dovetailed with a comprehensive immigration strategy that addresses DACA, chain migration, asylum, etc. - my suggestion - rebrand the new agency to NICE National Immigration and Customs Enforcement - to truly reflect the best values of the US
7
That's too late after 2006. Democratic tried that for 10 years and lost. It is a failed strategy and wont bring any benefits.
1
Maybe in Canada but there is no NICE here. Sad
Why does the Times use the term "Heartland" to describe this community? For some reason, the idea has developed that the people living away from the coasts are more authentically American than the rest of us, and their concerns seem to hold more value. I think it's a toxic idea, and can't be separated from racial and religious demographics- the White Christians living in the farm states represent American ideals more than the diverse communities along the coasts. To me, the term Heartland should be relegated to opinion pieces rather than news.
70
If we are going to round up and expel all these working undocumented immigrants, then the employers should also be rounded up and charged with hiring them. After all - if no one employed these people, there would be no incentive for them to come. But instead, we put drop the legal hammer on families, but the companies get off with out any meaningful penalties - oh, they might pay a fine, but I suspect they see that as a cost of doing business. If these jobs at the concrete plant are do desirable, maybe the custodian who is working three jobs will hustle down there an apply for one of them. Maybe then he won't have to live paycheck to paycheck.
33
Rusty King says, "We have enough poor people here in Iowa who need help." Alas, that is no doubt true. BUT it is not at all the fault of those Latino immigrants, many of whom get jobs that US citizens don't want to take, and work for benefit-less wages that US citizens would not accept. And it is certainly not true that they get any real "help" from the government.
Wage labor is a form of slavery; and capitalism poisons everything. Mr. King is right to complain about the inequality of our society, and the difficulty of finding decent work. But he is very wrong to blame those hard-working, unfortunate, beleaguered and disliked immigrants, who deserve our compassion and support.
30
Actually, good public health policy means even non-citizen immigrants get Medicaid (because, humaneness aside, if they have an untreated infectious disease it puts all at risk, citizen or not). And their kids do sometimes get limited and coveted spots in programs such as Head Start and even public magnet schools. Thus, as I have seen first-hand, there are in fact times and ways that those who enter the US illegally do get meaningful government assistance. And often enough, unfortunately, sometimes they get that help while vulnerable and needy US citizens are denied such help — because there is not, at least under our current corporate- and billionaire- welfare state, enough publicly-funded resources to go around. I’m usually called a liberal, and even I see that. My guess is that most of us who are educated enough to know about and read the NYTimes, and of means enough to have a subscription, don’t really know what it’s like, as a new immigrant or long-time but borderline-poverty-line US citizen, to truly need help and see it go to someone else for reasons we don’t fully know or understand and that seem to have no real rhyme or reason. And it can breed resentment when, for example, someone from a country that has universal healthcare available decides to out-stay their visa or otherwise be here illegally, perhaps with kids, and then qualifies and accepts Medicaid and WIC while your own expensive health insurance doesn’t cover 1:2 of what their Medicaid does...
5
Not only are the owners of these companies criminals they are most likely pocketing the last weeks and perhaps more of the arrested employees wages. I doubt very much that they are going to track them down to make sure they pay them.
I guess they’ll give the money to their favorite charity, themselves.
My what good “Christians”.
58
Regardless of the economics, the compassion and the laws that were broken, the many, many years of tolerance and gainful employment of these immigrants cannot and should not be ignored.
If a fruit merchant left a cart of apples in the town square daily for all to take for 20 years they can’t accuse those who partook of theft, even if that was technically true.
Justice without common sense is no justice at all.
14
And how is that concrete plant faring without workers? Are the towns people able to tear their kids from in front of the screen and go earn a living by working?
Coming to the US, especially in today's climate, is an act of desperation. The situation at home for these immigrants shouldn't be discounted.
18
“The Trump supporter came back with the passage in the Gospel of Mark about rendering unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and added for good measure: ‘Immigration laws are good and Godly! We elected our leaders and God allowed it.’”
By that logic, God allowed German voters to give the Nazis a parliamentary majority in 1932, making their regime and all the atrocities of the ensuing 13 years “good and Godly.”
34
Hypocrisy! You want to deter people from coming here? Quit giving them jobs! These raids should target the owners/employers, not the workers. Why not enforce the law when it comes to hiring people without proof of legal immigration status? Maybe because everyone would rather enjoy low prices for consumers and higher profits for corporations?
31
If you work three jobs and are living paycheck to paycheck, then you are doing it wrong.
5
Not necessarily. It’s still hard for some people to find full time, good paying wages. Many of the new jobs are part time minimum wage.
13
False, the working poor have hard lives and no health insurance. After getting out of the ARMY myself and every other veteran is unemployed and will take on multiple positions as needed as will younger people. At this point you have disparaged the poor, young and veterans. Was your point well thought out or knee jerk?
8
Perhaps the country that tolerates such employer behavior & wages is "doing it wrong".
4
“Immigration laws are good and Godly! We elected our leaders and God allowed it.”
Explain to me how you have a rational discussion with someone who believes this.
75
Explain to me how you have a rational discussion with anyone who uses emotional arguments but no facts to justify their positions. This is the real danger of Trump: he uses emotion but not facts to come to his decisions. It is the essence of ignorance. I don't blame him for his ignorance, but I surely do blame him for wanting to remain ignorant. For a President to willfully remain ignorant, as he has done and continues to do, is intolerable in our democracy, in any democracy. And all his sheep follow him. Just read all the different opinions in the comments to this column -- which of them are supported by facts?
6
Exactly why you should have not.
Perhaps God is mad at us.
1
“Mr. Crawford belongs to St. Alphonsus Catholic Church, and on the Sunday after the ICE raid, he heard Father Paul Connolly, with the detained men in mind, devote his homily to the Good Samaritan, the exemplar of caring for strangers. “All of us were immigrants at one time,” the priest said.”
For pity’s sake.
The Good Samaritan was not caring for a mere stranger he was AN ENEMY WHOSE PEOPLE WERE AT WAR WITH THE INJURED’S PEOPLE. People who, by the way, were recent immigrants to the holy land, trying to wipe out the Samaritans who lived there as evil apostates. The catholic priest buries the lede and so throws away the greatness of Jesus’ stunningly radical point.
But hey. White American Christian evangelicals haters have zero interest in anything other than their right wing American politics. They hate African American evangelicals. Love themselves though. Jesus is but their method of rationalization for ignorance and self worship. Pretending there is reasoned discourse with them is a fraud. They don’t even know who Samaritans were or are and do not care.
24
As a refresher course, being "evangelical" about a belief is not a bad adjective.
Almost all groups that claim they are Evangelical Christian "churches" claim that hey believe that one version ... their accepted version ... of the bible is ABSOLUTE truth. Including Genesis. And if you do not believe, then you are damned.
I am not sure which "version" they chose, since a lot of the Old Testament was strictly verbal (kind of like in Mad Max Beyond the Thunderdome) and the rest was from documents written by ... ??? ... and then translated into a whole lot of languages before English editions started to appear.
And in almost all real world churches, we still read and interpret and and use as inspirations to follow what Jesus has been quoted as saying.
Hence many Episcopalians having married priest, then female priests, and then openly gay and lesbian priests, and then a lesbian Bishop, among other advancements.
Now whether or not you are a Christian, 99% of what is written that Jesus said is very open and positive and accepting.
4
Some questions about the concrete plant workers...
* Does the plant pay their social security and workman’ comp ?
* Does the plant withhold federal and state taxes from their salaries ?
* If so, what do worker use for social security numbers?
* What is the effective salary for the workers ?
Could it be that hiring illegals results in big savimgs that makes hiring citizens unappealing?
Is it any wonder that they say jobs go “unfilled by citizens”
18
Question - have the 32 workers that were seized by ICE been replaced?
6
Even if the parents entrance is "illegal", is that a reason to damage children
or ignore Jesus's teaching, or ignore the US constitution? Is this still America?
13
Lot's of liberals in this thread claim illegals "pay taxes," .. just because they buy diapers at Walmart and a weekly tank of gas - they are not paying taxes. They are freeloading and gaming the system. They send all their money back "home" 60% of which goes to Mexico where their government pockets billions in transfer fees. They don't pay taxes- and the ones who have fake Social Security Numbers are criminals and should be sent to prison. Deport all of them- I don't care how much it costs-- they don't belong here! And don't pull the liberal "$8 dollars for an apple" argument because 60% of our store bought produce is imported from Mexico, Peru, Chile and Australia and New Zealand. There's no more room-and my patience and good nature for these people has come to an end.
3
So sorry about your patience and good nature. Hope you are able to recover them someday.
17
When GA and AL decided to crack down on undocumented workers back in 16 it cost them billons.
2
The claim of "paying taxes" is based on the fact that large numbers of the undocumented pay into Social Security and the IRS under fake or stolen SSNs. The Social Security Administration knows this. Many undocumented also pay taxes using a TIN number. In 2015 the undocumented payed $23.6 Billion to the IRS - money they will never get back. That's a fact direct from IRS or do you consider it "fake news".
4
One thing not mentioned in this article and most others is the issue of payroll taxes. If these companies are legit, payroll taxes are being paid for these employees, probably to fake ssi ac numbers. I had an old friend who came here from Brazil illegally in the nineties and worked at a chain restaurant. He had a fake ssi number and taxes were paid into that account for years until he was able to procure a fake wife in order to become a US citizen. The arranged marriage used to be the only path to citizenship, I’m not sure there is any path forward at this point. He is now a college graduate, speaks three languages fluently and has a great, completely legal job (not in the fast food industry.) It’s a myth that all undocumented immigrants don’t pay taxes. How man of the people who are jumping up and down about immigrants speak three languages and can contribute to our country?
3
EXACTLY! The average American is completely clueless. NYT had an article detailing the BILLIONS $$ paid into SSI by undocumented workers (with fake SSI numbers, like your Brazilian friend) that will never be collected by them -- or anyone else. I worked in a payroll office of a very large food business, I know, it was done all the time, for years with the same employees. YEARS.
Approximately 3 million of the undocumented workers pay payroll taxes working in the food and hospitality sectors, construction, landscaping, maintenance, meat packing, geriatric services, etc. And the GOP says SSI is going broke? 'Fake news'! Its a virtual cash cow for the U.S. Govt.!
1
Those that use fake or borrowed SS# will never receive any of the monies that they paid in but they are subsidizing the rest of us.
3
Wonder how much it cost to chase our Brazilian friend around the country all these years? Maybe instead of studying all those languages, he should read up on visa requirements! Have a nice day.
there is a great divide in Christians, and Christian churches in the US
those that attend churches that teach that they alone have the correct interpretation of the Bible, and teach that in order to be Christian, their church members have to remain "pure" and dedicated to their church's views, and in these churches there's no dissent, no open discussion about what to do about a situation, because membership in these churches by definition means that church members toe the line to whatever their pastors say the line is
these churches are homogeneous and intolerant and exclusive
this is in contrast to those that attend churches that teach tolerance, and accept differing views of their church members about how to interpret the Bible, and in these churches, members are encouraged to stand up and talk about their own views, not views that are handed down to them by the pastors, and there are still lines drawn in these churches, like not all accept gay marriage, but that line doesn't drive the members of these churches to reject all other church denominations
these churches are diverse and tolerant and inclusive
it's no surprise that the the churches and church members are now divided in this town
1
Frankly, religion is not the answer -- it is part of the problem. You can justify the most heinous acts by diligently reading the Bible.
'We elected our leaders and God allowed it.'
Sure sounds a lot like Dr. Pangloss from Voltaire's Candide.
7
It's funny how you hear (or read) the same ignorant, trope every time a "raid" happens. Most of the people in this town and many people writing posts to this article, really have no idea, the hundred of millions, into the billions, of tax dollars that this small town and many others big and small in this article collect in taxes from undocumented labor. And in all cases, those undocumented workers, WILL NEVER receive one penny in welfare, or in social security, or SSI benefits. Why, because it's illegal.
Most of these people seem to not care of the actual cost to the tax payer, to raid, arrest, hold, take care of kids, which entails, feeding, medical care, clothes electricity etc all of which is passed on to the tax payer (at an inflated rate). When you read how the detention centers for children, is a new "growing business" it makes you wonder, what the real driver of this anti-Mexican narrative is.
Politicians mainly the GOP should be honest with the public the actual cost of zero tolerance, i.e. housing, food, clothing, medical care, etc. Politicians should also tell the public how much Mexican immigrants pay in taxes. But that would require the GOP to be honest, and that won't happen.
Here is the how much immigrants pay in taxes to each state. https://itep.org/immigration/
Smuggling of minor boys from Mexico and South America. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/trafficked-in-america/
People should look for themselves instead of listening to a POLITICIAN.
17
Their GIRLFRIENDS and children receive the welfare, and these guys remain in the shadows
1
The evangelical Christians are not Christians. Simple. They worship the dollar, not Christ; if they did worship the Lord they would love their neighbor as they loves themselves. This command from Jesus is not difficult to understand but for some people it is nearly impossible to execute. Read the parable of The Good Samaritan and meditate on it. Pray to the Lord and ask for wisdom. He will give it to you so you will understand what His word is telling you to do.
14
I’m convinced, Lawrence, you believe. Maybe just leave it at that and leave the sermons for the preachers, that’s what they get the parsonage for.
It was nice to read about Christians that actually do what Jesus preached, showing compassion.
15
Seen from the outside, U.S. American evangelicals have an unusual form of Christianity. They seem to see the old testament as the important part while cherry picking single statements, often not from Jesus himself, from the new testament and concentrating on the mystical rather than his messages.
4
Interestingly, that verse from Leviticus quoted at the beginning of the article is from the Old Testament. In fact, treating foreigners with compassion was an integral part of the laws contained in the Old Testament. When properly interpreted with appropriate context, there is no inconsistency between what Jesus says and what the rest of the Bible says. The inconsistency and hypocrisy is only in the hearts of the people who (as you said) cherry-pick verses to support their own selfish desires.
1
Well, happy to point some additional asylum seekers from Central America your way. Last I heard, your government is constructing "transit centers" just beyond German soil for those who are shopping around for the best EU accommodations they can find. I know you have generously taken in a million or so, but we have nearly 30 million, yet you do not think we are charitable enough, so please save some room for the millions more headed your way. And, God Bless.
1
Dear New York Times,
Please interview the owners and family members and investors and anyone who profits from this company.
Please interview the other company's owners who have been raided by ICE. I want to hear their side!!
29
Jesus said many will call him Lord, but he'll say that he never knew them.
3
Instead of shutting down the company that knowingly employed this people the powers to be have filed no charges. Talk about hypocrisy. They should have padlocked the plant but since they probably can't find any citizens who want to work in a horrible work environment for low wages i hope they go out of business.
Of course this is a business model Dumb Donald likes.
As for "evangelicals" the bible is only useful if gets them the sad "world" they want.
8
Evangelical churches are just the snake oil salesmen of the 1800's... Let's start a church (aka a business), and with the IRS's blessing obtain wonderful tax breaks, even an allowance for our home , in the meantime sucker our parishioners thru fear while using their money and our bully pulpit to politic, drive our country apart...
28
As for me and my house, I choose the non-penticostal bible. 160 years ago these same folks would be using the same biblical justifiations to enforce slavery
9
Just curious. Are they arresting and charging anybody in a supervisory or ownership position for hiring undocumented aliens?
22
If Americans want all foreigners here illegally to be legal then we should either change the law or grant them amnesty to make them legal but, in either case, let's get control of our southern border because rounding them up and sending them back just so they can come back through so we can do it all over again is a waste of taxpayer money.
4
No true Christian can support Trump who has proven that he violates every principle of human decency with his massive lying, ripping families apart, and his history of rampant sexual predatory behavior. Only those so-called fundamentalists who deny the word of their God in favor of political power can stand with a man as evil as Trump.
11
People need to be reminded that when Harry Reid was majority leader of the Senate in 14 he crafted an immigration bill that had enough support from Republicans that it had enough votes to override a veto. There was enough support from Republicans in the House to pass but John Boehner wouldn't let it come to a vote. The bill addressed some of the problems but like every bill passed by Congress it was written by human beings so it wasn't perfect. It had enough items to enrage today's Robber Barons who want to be able to take advantage of the mess of our immigration policies.
Trump has successfully taken a page out of Hitler's play book. He's turning neighbors against neighbors.
9
We really need many, many more short stories on this issue: “ICE Fails to Cite Illegal Employers”; “Illegal Emoloyers Profit from Slave Labor”; “Illegal Employer Harbors Criminals”; “Trump Administration Soft on Criminal Employers”; “Republicans Fail To Curb Illegal Employment”; “Illegal Emoloyers Donate Geneously to GOP”; “GOP Coddles Criminal Employers of Slave Labor.”
“No charges have been filed against the owners of the Midwest Precast Concrete plant in Mount Pleasant that was raided.”
46
No charges filed, Mr. President. Why???
3
Stop calling it “the heartland.”
11
Just another example among many others which clearly supports the view that Evangelicalism is pseudo religion and a cult.
3
Why are they still deporting nonviolent hardworking immigrants? WHEN will they start deporting all those dangerous MS13 gang Trump & Sessions won’t stop talking about?
12
When Trump is impeached, will they continue their insistence that God "allowed it" or will the justification turn to "God was foiled by evil men"? Using God to cover your own prejudices ... when it's convenient ... but blaming men when it's not, is not particularly "religious", it's just plain old human hypocrisy.
6
No one is less a true Christian in practice than white “evangelicals”.
37
“They say go back and come here legally,” she [Juana Barrious] said. “It’s not easy. Most of us don’t have money. Most of us are denied.”
Wasn't it Ivanka who pimped U.S. citizenship to Chinese for a half-million dollar purchase of real estate in the U.S.?
28
Ah, Ivanka (Russian name), Eric, Don Jr. and Baron — all children of recent immigrants. From countries formerly aligned with Russia. Their moms seeking asylum from the non-millionaire hoodness of their lives in countries that used to cling to their Iron Curtain — a similar one that now tries to cast shadows on our American elections and unity.
17
It was her sister in law.
I believe it was actually Ivanka’s sister-in-law, promoting the Kushner businesses who offered exclusive visas to Chinese “investors”.
"through the lens of Christian morality"??
Oh no, you're going to have to define that term. Do you mean the Christan morality of a brown, Aramaic speaking, itinerant migrant/preacher/carpenter who consorted with criminals and prostitutes all the while preaching social justice for an increasingly cosmopolitan and interconnected Classical Era world or do you mean the grotesque, debased corruption that masquerades as Christianity today?
21
And don't forget, he was actually a Jew seeking to reform Judaism, not create a new religion. That only came long after he died, when preachers realized that most Jews weren't interested in what he had to say.
10
Trump calls Latino (but not, say, Neón-Nazi) gang members animals, and trump supporters cheer.
Then trump enforcers detain and will likely deport-to-his-death a single father who had the strength of character, honorable values, and backbone to stand up to Latino gang members & to model such courage of convictions for his son, who is now essentially orphaned; and again trump supporters cheer.
Where, pray tell, is the Godliness or integrity or even common sense in that?
I don’t take kindly to folks skirting our immigration laws just because they want to live in another country (like a number of British, Swedish, Polish, and German visa-over-stayers I’ve known), but if only that town in Iowa, the rest of our country, the White House and Congress had more men and women of character and courage such as that single father, our country would be in much better shape and would’ve kept its role as beacon of (unselfish-)righteousness to the world.
Seems to me that this man and his son, who bravely refused to succumb to the corruption, peer-pressure, and threats of gangs and colluding government agents, may have much to teach those who still care about the true American dream and ideal.
11
I beg of you, New York Times, this is one area you can help. Show Trump’s followers the incongruence of his leadership vs. Jesus Christ’s.
It’s one way to both cast light on the dark hypocrisy, and at same time is maybe where his deepest base dwells.
1
And I once called myself Christian. I will not be associated with these awful people.
13
Either you really believe and at least try to act as Christ would have you act or just stop calling yourself a christian. Anything less is a show no one else is buying any more.
4
All laws from politicians are Godly since God allowed the politicians to be elected?
Under that perverted thinking, no law can ever be removed or altered since God wanted the original laws. Abortion laws cannot be more restrictive and ObamaCare cannot be altered from the original!
Do these idiots ever think about the repercussions their bizarre statements imply?
21
“Immigration laws are good and Godly! We elected our leaders and God allowed it.”
"God" also allows mass murder, child abuse, rape, natural disasters, war, and diseases that kill innocent little children.
Its called giving humans and our world "free will."
5
Jesus was persecuted and murdered by by being crucified by the Roman Emperor whose title was Caesar. Regarding people who are wrongly accused of being criminals, the only people Jesus guaranteed getting to heaven were the two criminals crucified next to the crucified Jesus.
In a democracy, rendering to Caesar, means paying taxes and voting regularly for persons sympathethic to the persecuted.
Evangelists who support Donald Trump will never reach Heaven, because Donald Trump is clearly the Anti-Christ. The aliens that Trump persecutes will go to Heaven because Jesus protects his flock.
Those Evangelists who blindly support Trump's evil have damned themselves, because they hate and persecute other people especially the innocent children, which causes Jesus to cry and his heart to bleed; and the Lord especially despises people who consider themselves followers of God, but act like followers of the Devil.
4
Yet another illegal immigration piece by the elite out of touch New York Times that casts blame for this problem on any number of people and organizations and politicians except one: the illegal immigrants themselves
7
How so? I read the story and it included viewpoints from both supporters of the raid and Mr Trump’s immigration policies and those opposed to both. What would make it acceptable to you? No story at all? I guess it’s ok to talk about illegal immigrants stealing jobs, but not ok to point out the local 2.9 per cent unemployment rate and hiring signs posted all over? How is that fair and balanced?
5
And the reason the employers are not to be "blamed" is?
9
The point being made here is whether evangelicals are following the teaching of Christ or the teachings of Donald Trump. You can not serve two gods.
WWJD? He'd say obey the law. Go home, get in line and come in legally. I don't think he advocated lawbreaking.
2
Jesus and two men crucified along side of him were each crucified as criminals under the law of the Roman Caesars who ran Judea at the time. Additionally, baby Jesus and his family were Judean refugees accepted in Egypt to avoid baby Jesus being executed under the law of the Judean King Herod. Certainly God condemns to Hell, Trump and his followers who jail helpless refugees and who take their helpless babies from their mommies and put the babies in cages. Trump is the Anti-Christ and God is testing Trump's Evangelist lemmings and they are clearly failing and will end up in Hell for eternity.
7
Jesus was not a racist.
3
Jesus was the ultimate lawbreaker! You need to read the Bible again.
9
The question remains ever the same, ”who would Jesus deport?”
5
The truth of the matter is that nobody has given a tangible definition of what "God" is.
Hence, if not tangible then fungible!
1
Please tell me why the person doing the interviewing would not ask someone that says our laws should be followed if they felt exactly the same way about the people owning the cement plant? They are breaking the law too.
9
We need a "Marshall Plan" for Mexico and central America (and probably for South America). Don't waste money on the inane idea of building "the Wall". If you don't want them coming here, help these folks have a decent life in there home countries! Help them develop economically, help them overthrow their oligarchic governments.
14
Based on my experience, both “conventional” and evangelical churches incorporate some element of charity, but evangelicals tend to see converting others to their specific beliefs as their charitable contribution. If that is the highest calling, then it becomes difficult indeed to disrupt the bigamous marriage of church, state, and right-leaning media.
6
Ultimately this is just more data points that shows that religions (and ALL religions) are used as political instruments more than moral compasses.
17
I knew it was just a matter of time before this happened. Grew up in a farm town near there, pop. 9K, where to my surprise after a visit home from the Army, there were suddenly many many Mexicans. I thought cool - little town needed to broaden its' horizons. They were brought in by Con-Agra I think to work in pork producing plant. Nice couple lives next to my parents, help them with snow removal and stuff. They must be at least second generation in possibly 3rd. I'm sure ICE will show up soon enough, remove parents and grandparents to free up jobs locals didn't want in the first place. They watched it happen, they approved its' happening - I speak to no one back home anymore once trump fever took over. I'd rather have no family than a family that hates.
27
If, as the Trump supports proclaim, the law must be followed, how many business owners or managers were arrested for hiring the folks who were detained by ICE?
Karl Marx - "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people".
The opiate problem in the US is not limited to heroin and its related compounds.
9
The arguments given by those supporting ICE mostly are repetitions of Trump talk, dependent upon “alternative facts”, not fact. Using Christian religion to justify harsh action is neither Christian nor consistent with separation of Church from State. Secular argument for such action would involve proper respect for persons and provision of skilled professional defense. Where asylum from harm is warranted, it would be granted.
12
See how abortion is all we read about now for the last few days?
Liberals worship abortion , like Evangelicals worship life.
Evangelicals will not abandon Trump no matter what the liberal media try's to do.
Trump is giving them life which is more important than a job.
1
You are a lost soul. No one worships abortion, and saying so is like saying that Evangelicals worship racism, rather than Jesus. Both statements are false. Both are lies set out to distract and divide. By believing such lies, you are contributing to this and to the hate that is destroying this country. I feel sorry for you. I will pray for your soul, but I fear you are too far gone.
6
Oh, I thought Trump worships money. Evangelicals worship Trump.
9
I know lots of liberals who would never have an abortion and I know no one who favors choice who worships abortion. Get outside your echo-chamber, for a change.
If you worship Trump, or are sticking by him, or anyone (except maybe your mom or your child) no matter what” then you are a worshipper of idols. Plain and simple. And what does the Bible you follow say about idol worshippers?
4
I read that regular Americans aren't taking those jobs. Why is that? Could it be that immigrants see hard work and a value of a dollar more than those who pay lip service like high school graduates or the local homegrown unemployed? Hmmm... All talk about immigrants taking American jobs that pay an hourly wage. I haven't read about the locals taking them despite the low unemployment rate of this Iowa town. Those lip flapping, anti-immigrant pastors better clean their glasses and get the wax out of their ears and reread the Bible more clearly because HIS words are clear to those who allow it into their hearts and minds. False pastors indeed along with ignorant townfolks.
13
Immigrants have always been the hardest workers, and done the work that born-Americans wouldn't do. The immigrant ancestors of these Iowans were that way, just as other immigrants have been.
7
Fine the owners ten thousand dollars for each illegal worker. Give five thousand to the persons who turn in the employers for each illegal they hire. This will end the hiring of illegal workers very quickly
6
It's really sad to read this story, certainly for the human pain and suffering inflicted on hardworking immigrants. Still, I am most saddened by the evidence of the decline of the American Empire approximately 100 years after the decline and fall of the British Empire. I thought, I had hoped, that America wouldn't follow down the sad path that Britain did at the close of the 19th century, but it appears that xenophobia, religious fanaticism, and class warfare will take down the USA like it took down the UK.
9
Good thing that we're a secular nation of laws that we agree upon - by the people and for the people - and do not follow the code of any religious book, including the bible, koran, torah etc. Case closed.
9
The law is the law "they" say. It is biblical to obey the law "they" say unless of course, "they" don't like the law.
In 2015 Mike "Hypocrite" Huckabee was one of the leading supporters of Kim Davis who as a government clerk in Kentucky refused to obey the law upheld by the Supreme Court that same-sex marriage was legal. Plus Bobby Jindal suggested that we just get rid of the Supreme Court because he didn't like the legal decision.
Cherry picking which laws to enforce and which people to punish for breaking the laws is a Republican specialty and the frightening thing is they see no conflict at all with their views of what constitutes law and order.
28
The Bible is a Rorschack test for the soul. An interpretation says more about the reader than the text.
16
Christian America? More like Ancient Rome, when true Christians were treated to the letter of Roman law. Mercy? Any Evangelicals heard of that?
17
The key part of the story is this: "No charges have been filed against the owners of the Midwest Precast Concrete plant in Mount Pleasant that was raided." Really? Seems to me the owners broke our godly, biblical immigration laws. If the owners are not charged and prosecuted, it will blow the fig leaf off of the racism and nativism that are the true motivation for these raids. How will the Trump administration and its supporters ever live down their hypocrisy on this issue? Quite easily, if the past is any guide.
17
I've always thought that "delusion" fits a certain kind of mindset a lot better than "faith".
8
The Cult of Trump - Making America Soulless Again (MASA). One day at a time.
Trump Evangelicals (basically, almost all the evangelicals) have made a Faustian bargain with the Devil. They are happy to break the moral laws of Jesus and their conscience (which they sold cheaply to Trump) and hide behind the harsh rhetoric of enforcing immigration laws.
Baby Jesus was also hounded by the king's men enforcing harsh laws laid forth by the king.
Trump and Trump evangelicals will not hesitate to arrest Jesus, lock him up and if needed, torture him, if Jesus were to come back. Why? Because Jesus ain't a White European and won't have his US Citizenship certificate.
Having lived our lives, we all shed our earthly skins. And then the Divine, whatever name you want to call him with, will not ask for our birth certificates. He will only look at our Karma.
What karma did Trump and the members of his Trump Cult did?
20
Please do not conflate illegality with immorality. I have no issues if people derive their moral authority from the Bible, but understand that laws are man-made constructs written up to try to reflect contemporary morality and politics.
To claim that the Bible requires the law to be followed turns this into a giant circular fallacy that confuses cause and effect.
To unquestioningly obey laws without understanding how and why they were made possibly results in the “banality of evil”: how normal people like you and I can justify doing immoral deeds because “it’s just the law” and “we were told to.”
8
Donald Trump is so petty and mean that I bet ICE selects their targets based on the RNC donation log. No donations - time for raid (shakedown)
I am sure there is an enterprising journalist to chase this one down.
8
Regardless of the subject, this is another example of evangelicals not acting as Christians.
9
The "Evangelicals" love to say they harken back to the true early Christians. Don't they realize these Christians were a persecuted minority imprisoned and tortured for their unacceptable beliefs? Have they no compassion. Why do they think Christ wound up on the cross? Are they blind?
15
And they will not see
I find it interesting that in all this talk from the folks who live in the town about breaking the law and those that do it should be punished, where is the outrage that the owner of the company blatantly broke the law when hiring these workers and no one is calling for the owner to be jailed. Isn't breaking the law, breaking the law? Or is it pick and choose depending on race and social standing? Just asking.
27
In reading this, the inevitable question of "Who benefits?" must enter the question.
The immigrants certainly don't benefit. Neither do the cement plant owners. The community doesn't benefit – losing sales receipts, sales tax, housing income etc. The local employment picture doesn't benefit – as pointed out here, there are numerous "for hire" signs and an unemployment rate of just 2.9%. The court system doesn't benefit.
So who are the winners? Well ICE, for one. They can continue to justify their salaries and benefits. Trump "wins" – but only inasmuch as his supporters stay conned into thinking that's the case.
Given who the "winners" are here – it seems to me we're doing a lot better - and are a lot better off - with the "losers"
10
If 120 million Americans decided not to file a federal tax return next year, do you think the IRS would simply roll over and grant everyone amnesty? Therefore- It isn't unreasonable to round up 12 million illegal residents and register them in a data base so we can start taxing them. Notice- I didn't say DEPORT- I simply want them to be documented and taxed- I also want their employers taxed.. I want them to start paying for their free ride. Right now, they come over to have multiple kids, kids who automatically become U.S. citizens eligible for government benefits. If that isn't gaming the system- I don't know what is. This needs to stop. I do no want to separate families- I do not want to deport people- I just want documentation and verification.
9
OK, Aaron - one more time:
Illegal immigrants, even criminals paid under the table, do pay taxes, more than $9,000,000,000 last year.
Illegal immigrants pay into your social security. Yours, because there is no chance they will ever collect anything.
So that makes you a free rider on the backs of illegal immigrants.
Nice for you, I suppose.
Really,
you might find yourself Surprised, because they are taxed, undocumented as well as documented immigrant workers ARE TAXED, and DO pay federal, city, state, and local taxes. If people took the time to go and read up on the hundreds of billions that working immigrants pay into their cities, state tax coffers, people my not be so quick to want them out.
So for your edification, and for future debates about what Mexicans get or don't get (i.e. welfare, most states don't give welfare benefits to undocumented immigrants). Businesses rarely hire undocumented immigrants because of the reporting issues, (the I-9 form) only when there isn't labor to hire. And in some cases, Whites, won't cut the rectums out of dead pigs, for $15.00 a hour, and NOT hiring Mexicans, thinking that will in turn raise the wage for that entry level job, is just plain dreaming.
What happens as in the meat processing plant, they will just move to a labor friendly state. Then there is a ugly seemly side of smuggling labor in, Why, because no white worker wants to work at an egg farm for you guessed it $15.00 an hour or less.
Here is the how much immigrants pay in taxes to each state. https://itep.org/immigration/
Smuggling of minor boys from Mexico and South America. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/trafficked-in-america/
Maybe if people would look for themselves instead of listening to a POLITICIAN, they might find out that immigrants contribute MORE than they will ever get back.
6
The IRS takes in more than $6 Billion a year to phony SS numbers or SS of the deceased. 60 minutes did a whole story on it. They know exactly where the workers are and who they work for.
The question you should be asking is why does the Federal government allow business owners to break the law. Why aren't they prosecuting and fining business owners?
3
This is a very difficult issue to get arms around and the demagoguery from all sides obscures the nuances. In the rural area where I live, home builders, food processing plants and agribusinesses ALL thrive off illegal workers. "Everyday people" know this is happening but turn a blind eye to it because the price of homes and food would skyrocket without the illegal immigrant workers. Businesses would shut down and another recession would inevitably happen. They all say they want e-verify but what they really want is the status quo so they can continue to exist/profit and drive 50,000 dollar pick up trucks.
On the other side, it's difficult to see whether people are truly moved by compassion at the sight of desperate migrants pressing through our borders or if they are simply trying to score points against the GOP. I don't recall the same level of vitriol being thrown at the Obama administration when they were conducting raids and deporting thousands of illegals.
And we wonder why a comprehensive immigration bill can't get through our elected representatives? The answer is because we don't really want there to be a comprehensive reform, too many of us are ambivalent about it and elected officials will not risk their jobs until we demand it.
14
Wonderfully analyzed and written comment Tim. Thank you.
1
"No charges have been filed against the owners of the Midwest Precast Concrete plant in Mount Pleasant that was raided." No charges are EVER filed against those who employ undocumented workers; they get off scot-free.
If the US REALLY wants to stop undocumented immigration, they would hugely fine or jail those who hire them; if there were no jobs, they would not come.
But the US won't do that for two reasons:
1) NEVER punish business owners or wealthy people who might contribute to the GOP, even if they hire undocumented workers under the counter, pay them less than minimum wage, and don't submit payroll tax on their behalf.
2) The US needs these immigrants. Not all business owners hire undocumented workers under the counter, pay them less than minimum wage, and don't submit payroll tax on their behalf. Many hire them under false ID, pay them the minimum wage, and submit their payroll taxes because they cannot find enough American workers to work for them at the wage they offer.
3) The US needs these immigrants, part 2. The US birth-rate is below replacement level; there aren't enough American workers available to do the work and pay the taxes that keeps the government going-and that includes paying for Social Security. This problem is now more vital given the huge tax-cut the rich got.
25
And those immigrants do the jobs that the indignant Americans would not touch. What a hypocritical country! Blame them for stealing jobs they wouldn't do anyway. Unbelievable.
3
Ok, so "you" believe the law needs to be followed. Fine. That still leaves immigrants needing funds for legal representation and families (think of them as widows and orphans) needing help and support. Nothing about believing the former gets a Christian off the hook for the latter. Pastors' tweet storming changes no minds. Building relationships and helping others does. God's work, our hands, as the saying goes.
10
Sometimes I wonder if AG Sessions and his evangelical supporters have ever actually read the Gospel, with Jesus’s consistent message of the need to minister to the downtrodden. But that said, what this incident highlights is our multi-decade failure to transcend our hang-ups and adopt a workable immigration policy. Grouchy old conservatives (I’m old and grouchy myself) can’t get past their outrage that “they broke the law!” And liberals (I’m one) can’t seem to accept reasonable constraints. And nobody seems to want to recognize what’s driving this. This employer isn’t some kind of gangster. He’s hiring these people simply because it’s the only way he can get workers—we need these immigrants to make our economy go, which explains why 11 million of them are here. The last president brave enough to try to fix this was George W. Bush, and his proposal was buried by both sides.
There’s zero chance President Trump will fix this mess—even if he could get his beloved wall, at best it would do nothing and at worst it would make things worse. But my hope is his would-be replacements will take this on and bravely propose some solutions that appeal to both camps.
104
Unless Trump plans to have his beloved wall built by all Union labor with great hourly wages (doesn't seem likely, given Trumps history with the building trades) its unlikely contractors will be able to find enough American citizen's to work long hours in the heat of AZ and TX for low wages. If the Wall ever gets funded, I imagine the government contractors will end up hiring Mexican guest workers to build it.
1
The point is; Jeff Sessions should not be reading the Gospels when doing his job. He needs to read the Constitution and all applicable laws as they pertain to the issue at hand. As the United States Attorney General, he clearly crossed the line between 'church and state' and needs to be called on that action.
1
Sessions is a Methodist, BTW. But you raise an excellent point re: familiarity with the Gospel. Whatever version they seemed to have read completely leaves out Jesus' many teachings about the treatment of the poor and ill and weak, and focuses on matters he never ever spoke a word about like abortion.
If the employer raised his wages and made working conditions better, he might be able to get workers. Of course, then prices would have to be raised and Americans would have to pay more for their meat and veggies and whatever else they are getting an unfair bargain for by using the labor of people who can not protest conditions and low wages.
Still, yours is the only comment I have read so far that recognizes problems with both conservative and liberal positions, and that acknowledgement is a huge step forward -- unfortunately I see no sign of it being recognized by either side.
These churchgoers are the targets of Trump policy more than gang members. They are easy to find, not dangerous to apprehend, and arresting them will make for bigly numbers so everyone gets promoted for collaring all those fry cooks with kids. Why mess with some scary actual criminal types like gangs when you can round up the people who came to this country to escape gangs?
20
Then they want top notch service at the places the fry cooks worked.
The restaurants are now charging a lot more since they need to attract new workers in a very tight job market. Many restaurants are going out of business in my area due to insufficient workers.
I can understand the workers not wanting Trump administration staff and ICE, etc at their restaurants.
The only crime that most of the immigrants had was trying to get away from deadly crime in their own country. They did not realize the utter hatred these Christian GOP have for those not Born in the USA.
8
If there is a central tenet to Christianity, it is the "Sermon on the Mount".
These are words and sentiments spoken by the man himself.
it is also one of the arts of the bible that biblical scholars believe an accurate reflection of Jesus's teachings.
All the rest of scripture is addendum.
Read it and decide for yourself what Jesus would think of this situation.
While it is always possible to spin almost any biblical passage to mean what you want, the message here is pretty clear.
9
With respect to at least some pastors of evangelical churches: “It is difficult to get a man to understand something [like the biblical mandate to protect and care for the stranger], when his salary depends on his not understanding it" (Upton Sinclair).
13
If you want to stop the flow of immigrants it begins by prosecuting employers - $10K fine per head will bring the whole thing to a screeching halt. A lot more humane than separating families and housing them in detention centers. People will leave if they cannot rent an apartment or get a job.
As Trump would say, "Its' so easy...we can clean it up in a summer, no problem" But he won't do that because these employers are his base and this whole charade is just a distraction with the added benefit of being mean to brown people.
27
“Mr. Hegar answered with Leviticus: “When a stranger resides with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. The stranger who resides with you shall be to you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt.””
Leviticus does not write American law. Our nation was founded on the principle of a separation of religion and the civil government. Many of the places the undocumented have left do not have this separation - it could be one of the reasons why conditions are so bad in these places.
3
i think that would be a fair response if he weren't dealing with evangelicals, so in the context of their argument he is correct.
the rest of us already know church & state should be separated - which is why we want no business in israel's quarrels, right to choose for women & equal (enforcement of) civil rights for all people regardless of their sexual orientation.
that hasn't quite worked for us, now has it?
3
No, it couldn't: people are fleeing Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador to escape from criminal gangs and ineffective or repressive governments.
1
Wait, wait! All 32 employed at one plant? Don’t we have laws about that? Are the plants owners being detained? Prosecuted??
60
Never.
3
Maybe they should not hire anyone who has Hispanic features?
Good one - he he he he - and the other good one is all the hard working white people waiting for those apparently - low paying jobs.
3
"Mr. Hegar said he heard relatives of a detained man say that the pastor of the evangelical church they have attended for years had not called to ask if he could help them." I bet that same pastor was more than willing to pass the hat and take money from those same parishioners who are now in trouble and who now he won't help. Despicable.
16
How is it that some in this country so many easily attach the label of “criminals” to people who enter a country illegally. It is a misdemeanor offense exactly the same as trespassing. We normally reserve the word criminal for felons, not for trespassers. And trespassing is an extremely minor offense by itself and our immigration law treats this as such. This explains why out jails and courtrooms are not filled with trespassers or jaywalkers, or litterers.
19
I'm awfully grateful to the Presbyterian and Catholic pastors and their congregants in this article, and many of the earlier commenters, for their decency over the shameful treatment of these immigrants, who take jobs other Americans wouldn't take even if the immigrants weren't here, those are nasty jobs. I'm reminded of the many decent clergymen who traveled south during the Civil Rights movement some of who were attacked, even killed, for their pains. The label of vast areas of this country as the "heartland" rests in doing unto others as you would have them do unto you.
18
Far back as I can remember in bible class, Jesus had 2 major commandments: (1) Love God; and (2) Do unto others. I also recall Mark’s gospel quoting Jesus as “render unto Ceasar ...” that said, I was taught that laws should never forget its humane dimension to comply with the requirements of Jesus’ item 2. Bring the refugees in, there’s room in this inn.
2
Wow. I grew up in a Christian midwestern town 50 years ago and we were taught nothing that resembles what these newfangled "Evangelicals" seem to be saying. The Golden Rule, turn the other cheek, help thy neighbor, don't throw the first stone. Seems that the thrust of the bible was (and is) clear enough.
God save these poor defenseless immigrants.
15
The view that immigrants take jobs from citizens or depress wages was a common one, but it was disputed by local business owners. The unemployment rate in Henry County is 2.9 percent, and many factories display “Hiring” signs.
Gary Crawford, who owns Mt. Pleasant Tire (“We keep you rolling”), said he paid tire installers $16 to $24 an hour, with full benefits. “I know most of the people who run the factories,” he said. “They just can’t find help.”
So if the unemployment rate is that low and they have "Hiring" signs, but "They just can't find help" then who are the lazy ones? What jobs are being taken away from "Americans" when there is no one in Mount Pleasant, Iowa willing to do those manual labor jobs? $16 to $24 an hour is above minimum wage too!!!
19
"We’ve got enough poor people here in Iowa that need help,” Mr. King said. “I work three jobs and still live paycheck to paycheck.”
One sign of a disingenuous argument is when it has a constantly shifting fundamental basis. Trump and his supporters shift from one rationalization to another.
Note that Trump apologists in this article are not talking about the fake existential crisis of MS-13, thieves, rapists, murderers, etc. THAT was the crazed lie Trump put out to justify cracking down on people. It was all about the "bad hombres." But when confronted with clearly harmless neighbors and children, all of a sudden "safety" and "national security" aren't the issue anymore. Now it's about lack of economic resources (remember this during Trump's next self-congratulatory tweet regarding his tax plan).
And of course, even if there were enough resources to go around, there are those, like Gen. Kelley, who simply feel we don't want illiterate or rural riffraff seeking refuge within our borders. As a fallback position, there's the simple "law and order" crowd who feel that nothing (not even legitimate fear of death) justifies non-criminal trespass over our borders. But then Trump and friends abandon even the law and order argument by seeking to curtail LEGAL immigration.
Harmless or not, economics or not, legal or illegal... some people just don't want to share the same air as others they consider inferior. Address one of their concerns and they'll find another.
24
I was raised in Iowa as a Catholic and I consider Catholics, Protestants, Lutherans, etc to be Christians. However, when talking about Christians, it seems to usually mean Evangelicals.
I guess Evangelicals are different.
There were very few Evangelical churches in Iowa when I was growing up, but they have spread across the state. Also, Iowa has always been a blue state and it turned red for the first time with Trump.
I think the spread of Evangelicals has turned the state of Iowa red. I can’t explain it any other way.
Please write an article explaining the difference in Christians or Christian churches. Maybe the traditional Catholic, Protestants, etc, don’t want to be rolled in to the “Christian” category with Evangelicals.
17
The media in this country are intellectually lazy and use the word "Christian" to mean right-wing evangelical because the evangelicals themselves use it that way. Catholics, Protestants, Mormons, Orthodox, etc. are rarely called "Christians" but merely described by their denominations. Evangelicals should be described as what they are - right-wing evangelical Christians - and not honored with the word "Christian" without qualification.
6
America? Forget all that platitudinous stuff about "the land of the free and the home of the brave." We're the land of politically embodied biblical proof-texting and shallow, self-justifying appropriation of "biblical righteousness." Fully (but not exclusively) on display in churchy Iowa. God, what a mess we've made of ourselves.
32
This article shows the true hypocrisy of "Christian" evangelicals.
58
Where are the folks in this town who can’t find jobs because of immigrants? WIth a 2.9 unemployment rate, there are none. That narrative is a lie.
It’s sad the young granddaughter has such hatred for her immigrant peers. She’s has had a hard life with a Dad who went to prison on a drug charge. But that cannot be blamed on immigrants and she seems like she’s looking for a scapegoat for her problems. She is the perfect target for Trumps and every despot’s scapegoat philosophy.
Perhaps she will help people when she becomes a parole officer, find compassion and understanding. Or she could take her bitterness out on other unfortunates.
29
So, if your dad went to jail on a drug charge and you see others who have gamed the system by unlawful entry, identity theft, cell phone theft, social security card number theft without penalty, you wouldn't be resentful?
If you just can't get your head around how resentment undermines a democracy and forces our leaders to the "wall" (literally), them please consider that Chancellor Merkel today agreed to build "transit centers" just beyond German soil to hold asylum seekers who are gaming the EU system in droves. German has a million "refugees" we may have upwards of 30 million unlawfully here.
My mother always said, charity begins at home.
8
North, you’re adding an awful lot of allegations against these folks that just aren’t there in the article or in the average case of an undocumented person going about their day. Where is the proof of identity theft? Of using someone else’s bona fides?
Without all of these little extras you’ve tacked on, it’s much harder to find a reason to think these workers have been hurting someone, isn’t it?
Honestly, I hope the young woman mentioned in this article has access to some kind of counseling to help her deal with her father’s incarceration. I’d hope the same for anyone dealing with that. But my sympathies cut off when she chooses vitriol toward a bunch of people who’ve done her no harm as though they’re the cause for her pain.
She’s the living embodiment of this self-centered victim mentality that got Trump elected.
3
Well, the same has been said of those who use drugs, Liz. They are just hurting themselves... Apparently the judge/jury did not accept that defense and daddy went to jail. Now, imagine someone comes to YOUR country (possibly carrying those drugs), but they don't get caught and are free to run on up to Iowa where they are "sponsored" by your community. People act like there is no criminal enterprise involved, those folks arrived here by immaculate delivery. Justice is not ours to deliver, yet we act like we can even this playing field. Unlawful aliens dodge responsibility of the law on purpose. As I have told friends from other countries who start in on why America should fight wars to free their nations, American mothers love their sons just like you do. Perhaps it is time to volunteer to fight oppression in your country. Freedom isn't free. It is time for Mexicans and Central Americans to stand and fight for a better life in their own countries.
1
It's been clear for decades that some Christians in this country actually understand and follow the words of our Lord, Jesus Christ.
Sadly many don't have a clue what Jesus stood for.
16
It is so easy to pick and choose from the Bible, when the whole Bible can be define by one word: LOVE. Just Love the other like yourself. Put yourself on those people's shoes. What would you do? They think is so easy to come here legally!!! Why don't you investigate first and understand the process so then you can say "apply legally", "come here legally", "go back and then apply", like you are applying for a credit card. When your life is at risk, and worst, when your child's life is at risk, nobody has the luxury to sit and wait. You just run as fast as you can..
Also, instead of calling then criminals, just because the crossed the border to save themselves and their families, try to know them first. If you get to know them, you will understand that they just want to work and have a place to live and have their kids go to school. These immigrants are just simple human beings like the rest of the world. But, like I heard someone saying about Americans on TV is that Americans do not know the rest of the world, they do not know what is going on outside their town, their country. Their minds are so closed that you can tell all the comments in the article is like taking out from FOX News or one of Trump's tweets. They are even using the same words.
I do not believe in churches, religion yes, churches no. But this article showed me wrong. At least, they are a few churches willing to fight and help others.
16
Me, This atheist applauds your Answer!
1
The pastors of so-called evangelical churches know who butters their bread and pays their bills. They won't challenge those in the pews so the plate that's passed is full.
27
Many evangelicals have given up any semblance of Christianity since they hitched their wagon to Trump. What do they think the law should do to the employers of these workers? Lock 'em up? I don't think they will. Selective prosecution of the law always benefits white and/or well to do people.
14
In such situations, avoid resorting to your favorite lines in the Bible and ask one simple question:
"What would Jesus do?"
Then, act.
19
Perhaps a more down to earth question, from a truly great human being:
What did President Mandela do throughout his life? Do that, you cannot go wrong.
2
When it came to people turning the Temple grounds into a business, Jesus got mad and threw the bums out. Sounds good to me. Start with Pruitt, Jared and Miller. Anybody know what collaborator-in-chief Kelly does for a living these days?
1
Well, I try my best.
The great Trump LIE:
“What about the ones living in Mount Pleasant who couldn’t find a job because they were employing illegal immigrants instead?”
Offer every unemployed person in Mount Pleasant a job an illegal immigrant was doing. You know they'd turn it down.
31
I say we institute a no excuses death penalty for speeding and rolling through stop signs. They are against the law! And unlike immigration, they cause actual harm! Zero tolerance, right? Given that these deportations often will result in people being killed, it's essentially the same thing Trump supporters are arguing for here.
Look, there's a reason every other administration, Republican and Democratic made immigration laws a lower priority; illegal immigration just isn't a major problem, in that it increases economic activity (more jobs, not fewer) and apparently tends, if anything, to reduce crime rates. You could look it up, if you cared. Prioritizing the deportation of bad characters has always made more sense, so it's what everyone else did. Trump is just picking the low-hanging fruit because it offers more red meat for his hateful, ignorant base. You could say it's even deplorable.
24
How come these evangelicals aren’t chastising the owners of the businesses that are hiring undocumented persons. They are breaking the law too. I seem to recall a bible passage about a camel and the eye of a needle
27
"The law is the law" says 17 year old Angel King. I wonder if she ever drinks a beer or breaks the speed limit. It is hard to know which to condemn more with these people, their ginned-up self-righteousness or their utter lack of compassion. And let us not mention their total lack of self awareness. As to no charges being filed against the owner of the plant, is there any greater evidence of the hypocrisy of the Republican Party?
35
Luke 18: Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector
And he spoke this parable unto certain who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a tax collector.
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank you, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector.
I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for everyone that exalts himself shall be abased; and he that humbles himself shall be exalted.
3
This is America in miniature. Our country is divided as never before on this issue. One can cherry-pick passages from the bible to support both sides. Compassion is in the bible and so is law and order. There are passages against exploitation too, which many migrants face.
The NYT does a tremendous job on reporting on the open borders position, but is mostly silent about the controlled borders position. This is a disservice to the independent-minded reader, who would prefer balanced reporting, and not only pieces sympathetic to one side but not the other.
7
According to Wikipedia, the US accepted 175,000 legal immigrants from Mexico - more than any other country. Why should we take any illegal immigrants from there ? They only destroy wages and working conditions for blue collar workers.
13
If Trump represents Christianity, then there is no God, and the Son of God doesn't exist either.
As a Christian, I'm ashamed of the Evangelicals and other so-called Christians that have abandoned the teachings of Jesus and taken up instead the swords of fear and greed.
NO true Christian could support Donald Trump. He comes as close to being anti-Christ as any one alive today. I firmly believe these folks will be in for a very very big and unpleasant surprise on judgement day, lest they repent.
26
These are the politics of Trump: incite hate, fear, and division; feed the outraged and unreasoning bigotry of the "base."
This damns our nation to acrimony, but also demands that the decent and upstanding among us do what is right: speak up, donate time and money to doing what is kind, compassionate, and reasonable, and please, for all that is right and caring, VOTE IN NOVEMBER.
13
As big as is this controversy over illegal immigration , it is but an single example of how hatred has divided our country. I grew up in an evangelical southern church. The messages of "us against them" were clear and often repeated. Jews were doomed to burn in hell as they killed Jesus. Catholics were damned as "Papists". Those Christians that were baptized by christening were in danger of going to hell because they were not submersed. Negros were cursed by God. (The mark of Cain) Homosexuals should be put tp DEATH! (Leviticus) Wives must submit to their husbands in all matters. The list of "us against them" goes on and on. Is it any wonder that immigrants should be treated as less than human? Is it any wonder that hate mongering by certain politicians works and will be repeated?
15
In addition, many fundamentalist churches employ interpret the bible to mean the world is a us against them proposition.
You are either with Christ/God or against him and with evil.
When you project this mindset on to the world the result is one of complete divisiveness.
And most certainly not what "our father in heaven" would want of his creations.
4
Many Christians who support the party of family values have managed to remove morality and compassion from their own religious beliefs.
16
So, Rusty King, a white American has to work three jobs and lives paycheck to paycheck. Here's my question for him, why didn't you take advantage of all this country has to offer?
The truth is, "Americans" don't want to do the tough manual jobs in this country, plus companies also want pay lower wages to increase their profits.
Another fact, white americans are dying off. That is really what scares you.
11
The immigration system is a stack of lies and promotes lies. We should have a new addition to the Bill of Rights, the right to lie. The businessmen and farmers hiring illegals are liars, but hey, so are those of us who use cement or eat food. Much or most food is touched by illegals before we eat it. People say let them go back and return legally. But Trump has cut down legal immigration to a trickle and would halt it altogether for brown and black skinned or for Muslims, if he could. The problem with allowing a corrupt system is it corrupts all of us. Sad!
4
Two thoughts:
(1) The President is ALWAYS--playing to his base. Deport illegal immigrants? Okay. Mr. Obama (I have read) deported around two million.
BUT. ..
.. . it is of paramount importance to Mr. Trump he be SEEN putting up the barriers. That he be SEEN--"bein' tough." Pulling families apart. Creating a maximum of pain and humiliation. That's "bein' tough." That's what the base wants. Red meat.
(2) Retiring Senator Corker put his finger on it when he spoke of "tribalism" in today's Republican party. Horrifying! But true. And preeminently true of evangelicals. Evangelicals? How come? What gives?
The sense--we got no friends. No one listens to us. And the sense too: our country (morally speaking) is going downhill. Fast. Very fast. Gay marriage. Gay love celebrated openly. Abortion centers (I have heard this) "on every street corner."
So they cling--to Mr. Donald J. Trump. He LIKES us. He LISTENS to us. He's "on board' with "our program." "Cling" is the operative word here. They really DO--cling to Mr. Trump. His people.
His policies.
Including his immigration policies. It's a Tammy Wynette moment. "Stand by your man." And they do. They do.
I am an evangelical. But NOT a supporter of Mr. Donald J. Trump. There are more of us than you might think.
But not enough. Alas no. And the rest?
They got snookered.
Big time.
Which is regrettable.
Very regrettable.
7
This article demonstrates why the argument that we need to talk with those on the other side, while a nice liberal idea is not rational. The other side is convinced God is not just on their side but that his chosen one sits in the White House. As in the debate concerning slavery, God is heavily lobbied to vote with the haters of darker skinned fellow humans. There is no convincing or softening many people.
6
So, someone tell me what would Jesus do? After all he has a life experience of being part of a family of refugees.
7
So horrific to watch these so called Christians using the name of God to justify their actions.
Can’t imagine how someone who was lucky enough to be born in a Country with so much wealth and resources can explain such blatant anti Christian behavior.
8
These little rural towns need these immigrants to do jobs they don’t want to do or don’t have enough people to do. When the plant closes and the other businesses it supports along with it lets see how they like it.
10
Somehow I don't remember Trump supporters citing "render unto Caesar" back when Caesar wanted to give healthcare to poor children.
13
This harkens back to the days when Africans were brought over here to work as slaves. The same religious groups found passages in the Bible to justify their actions.
In those days slave families were ripped apart at the whim of their owner and sold across the country to the highest bidder. Trump wants to separate families to please is base.
10
May be not be huge violations but when one fails to wear seat belt in their vehicle or chooses to drive drunk or go over the lawful posted speed limit, is that person not breaking U.S. Federal or state laws? So basically a citizen can break the laws of choosing in their own country but turn around and preach some one else about breaking laws? Is this what evangelical Christianity is about? Hypocrisy is acceptable? My own Republican friend who never fails to wear her American Flag pin every single day ended up unknowingly break a road law while we were driving back after a day trip to Chicago, got pulled over and given a t warning or ticket, and was bad mouthing the police man who pulled her over! Not a word about the fact that she actually violated a rule and that was why she was pulled over! The officer was only doing his job. These Republicans are also the same people who are constantly attacking public servants (public school teachers, for example) about how bad a job they are doing or not doing their jobs at all while wasting hard earned tax dollars! Hypocrisy is like breathing for these Republicans! They cannot survive without it!
6
No unexpected.
The Southern Baptists cherry-picked the Bible to "show" that slavery was just.
Pastor Doug Wilson of Moscow, Idaho, still thinks that way.
4
It seems to me that the town is divided along political lines, and that politics predict which denomination a person affiliates with.
1
I’m really looking forward to paying more for my cement. Not because wages will be increased to attract Good ole ‘’Mericans to work in the factory (which I actually wouldn’t mind), but because less will be produced as the pool of willing and able citizens, even at higher wages is just not there.
Unlawful immigration does need to be seriously addressed, but there is a lot of collateral damage this way.
2
There is only one reason president Trump and others talk about illegal immigrants as criminals:
To justify inhumane treatment.
Criminality is a nuanced word.
When we use this term are we referring to actions that violate rules put in place by governments? If so, our founding fathers and their followers as well as the revolutionary army were all criminals.
But if criminality refers to actions intended to hurt or deprive others of their rights, then this is altogether a different matter. Now we are talking about and ethics and morals.
In this sense, the great majority of illegal immigrants are not criminals. These people have often risked their lives, often spend all the money they have, to get to a place that offers a better and/or safer life. Many come because the level of violence in their own countries has gotten so out of control as to make the dangerous and arduous trip here worth the risk. There is no intent on their part to injure anyone, to commit any acts that would deprive anyone of their rights.
They just want to work.
Those that use the Bible or the immigration laws to paint a picture of these people as a safety threat to this country are being disingenuous. They hide behind these arguments so they don't have to reveal their true feelings.
All it takes is just a tiny bit of empathy and some heart to understand.
We should implement any immigration laws we want.
We just don't have to be inhuman about it.
5
It's sad to see so many who are uninformed about such an important topic as immigration law, and state "why don't they just come in legally". The fact of the matter is, under our current law, almost all of them can't. Sure, if they have a graduate degree and an employer with a critical need that will sponsor them, they can come in via legal channels. Or if they have immediate family members already residing in the U.S., they can get a green card right away. But if they are just an extended family member, then they "get in line", where the wait can be up to 20 years. In the mean time, who is going to clean those hotel rooms and pick those vegetables?
4
They also need approx. $10,000 to go through the legal process; I have a Chinese friend who did that with help from family. They need documents many do not have, even official birth certificates. They need to have enough support to stay here while they wait. That is why so many poor cross the border and disappear into local communities; they are not criminals; they just want to live without fear; they just want to work and send their kids to school; they just want a normal life. That is not too much to ask. And, I can't remember the last time a gardener murdered a whole class in school classrooms and hallways.
1
The town is divided along religious lines. “Faith” is a euphemism promoted by the religious right.
3
The irony I find in small town middle America is the blindness to the fact that the source of many of their problems in life is not immigrant workers but a govt that passes them over in favor of the interests of big business, big states and big cities. The immigrants are largely law abiding and hard working but are being scapegoated by a conman President who uses them for photo op rallies, but who will never give them the attention or help they really need.
As for evangelicals’ willingness to look the other way when a falandering, pathological liar is excused for his deeds just to get a judge on the Supreme Court who might throw out Roe vs Wade, you are sacrificing your credibility and your future. Young people see the hypocrisy and are walking away from your churches in droves.
6
If Jesus was such a stickler for "the law", why did he not pick up a stone and join the Pharisees who were about to kill the woman caught in adultery? After all, "the law is the law".
As a white evangelical, I am embarrassed and ashamed to be associated with those who take an extreme hard line against undocumented immigrants. Can we not protect our borders AND be people of compassion? Do we have to demonize an entire group of people? Since our President started using harsh rhetoric towards Mexicans, I have personally seen the harassment of young, American-born Hispanics by older, white evangelical Trump voters.
13
Evan among pool of cruelty exhibited by various religions, Evangelicals rises to the top. Like the radical Islamist, they cherry pick the passages they think will support their twisted view.
People will look back at this time in American and wonder how we collectively lost our mind and were so belligerent to our neighbors. The same way we ask those questions about Germany 1938, Cambodia 1975, Rwanda 1994, Bosnia 1995...
9
Mount Un-Pleasant I dare say. After all, there appear to be jobs available. Just no one wants to work them.
So where's the beef?
In those who beat the toss-out-the-immigrant drum. Different colored skins. Different languages. Seems to add up to the same-ol' same-ol' racist equation.
Small towns. Small minds.
3
Illegally entering the US is a misdemeanor, punishable by up to 6 months in jail. Repeatedly entering the us illegally is a felony, punishable by up to 2 years in jail and deportation.
Employing illegal immigrants is a federal misdemeanor, punishable by up to $2,000 per laborer. Inducing an illegal immigrant to illegally enter to US, for example paying them to work here, or repeatedly employing illegal immigrants are felonies, punishable by up to 5 years in federal prison.
So why are illegal immigrant workers being arrested and the business owners not being prosecuted? Why are legal residents not asking for business owners to be punished? Pure, blatant racism.
It's a wink and a nudge between American small businesses and ICE that the business owners go scott free. That's why you will never hear a peep from any small business associations, the federal SBA, or the Better Business Bureau about enforcing immigration law. They love having the cheap illegal labor so long as there's no legal risk to them.
This is what you get when you combine racism and hypocrisy.
12
Yes, families are torn apart every day in America, but for citizens it usually doesn't mean that children are put in detention, or left alone (essentially as orphans). We need to calm down, take a breath and talk to each other.
In regards to immigration we all need to be able to compromise and act humanely. Right now we are treating people fleeing great danger worse (in some cases) than we treat our pets. ICE does Not need to be abolished, but it needs to return to its roots, as an organization founded after 9/11 to help protect us from terrorists. Trump needs to admit that citizens commit violent crimes more often than immigrants. Asylum seekers need to be allowed to be released with an ankle monitor (worked for Paul Manafort) until their case can be heard. And I do not believe anyone is advocating "Open Borders." Just that we obey our own laws and treaty obligations, and federal judge's orders to reunite families.
6
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don't like that statement, but few can argue with it."
Carl Sagan
7
Those that harumph that yes they’re from immigrant stock but their relatives came here legally should scratch the surface a bit. My grandfather arrived from Italy in 1909. He was recruited there as a laborer and had his passage paid by his employer. This was of course illegal and he was told to lie about it on Ellis Island. Paperwork was minimal. He was handed a shovel on arrival and worked like a dog. PS - grandma and three children were sent for a few years later. CHAIN MIGRATION!!
The story turned out just fine. The current generation is around 100 people. One is inexplicably a flaming Trumper, based on of all things anti immigrant feelings. Muslims and Latinos just get her going. But the rest are hard working, decent and successful.
15
We have to remember that under the Roman Empire laws, We The Christians were seen as criminals too. During many centuries Christians had to hide to avoid the fierce persecution against them. Finally emperor Constantine decided to proclaim a comprehensive immigration reform, sorry, the Edict of Milan, which was seen as an amnesty by the enemies of Jesus Christ. We know the thinking of atheists, communists, racists, and persons without good feelings towards immigrants. But Evangelicals? They had built a giant banner that says "We Don't Love Undocumented Immigrants. We don't forget you" Bad luck, Latinos everywhere. Lord's Prayer anyone? More former Evangelicals are now going to The Lady of Lourdes Church here in Miami. Welcome back! And tomorrow we can sing "God Bless America", written by an immigrant. Good!
4
"No charges have been filed against the owners of the Midwest Precast Concrete plant"
Interesting in all of this outrage about "illegals" is zero outrage towards all the people illegally employing these workers. If this were actually about the law, the fastest way change the lawless behavior would be to put a few of these employers in jail. But once again the rich get off with no consequence because they deftly utilize people's racism to find a scapegoat so they can keep on exploiting workers of all kinds.
13
Here's a Bible quote for you Trump loving Christians: Thou shalt not commit adultery
8
I hope the next administration will stand down the thugs in Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
2
When I think of my white evangelical brothers and sisters' hostility to immigrants and minorities in general I am reminded of Jesus' words to the Pharisees during his earthly ministry in Matthew 23:23:
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
In other words, it seems the white evangelicals are more than willing to quote scripture and defend the laws of the land but are totally lacking in mercy and compassion toward human beings who don't look like them.
10
All Americans eat meat, vegetables and fruit. Several decades ago, that work was paid so poorly and it was so hard that Americans no longer would do it. No American parent would say to his kid, "I hope you choose a career of being an itinerant fruit and vegetable harvester. That would make me, as your father, very, very happy." No one wants to do that work. For 80 years or more we've have allowed impoverished, uneducated folks from south of the border to come into our country to do that work. As a result Americans have had access to plentiful and cheap food. How would those evangelicals like to pay $10/lb for cherries or peaches, or $5 for a head of lettuce, or $2 for a tomato. This "illegals" also work in chicken processing plants. How about paying $20 for a chicken, or $10 for a dozen eggs? Then, these same people would be screaming and raging about the price of food. Rich societies have always used slaves or wage slaves to do their dirty work, because the offspring of the rich won't do it. All Americans are complicit in this system because we all benefit from it. Stop being hypocrites and try to understand the real problem and what do about it. The U.S. overthrew the elected socialist president of Guatemala 75 years ago and set up an oligarch for the benefit of American corporations and banana eaters. Shouldn't we expect that conduct to lead to impoverished Guatemalans seeking to come here becuz the conditions in their own country are so rotten? It's karma.
12
Trump supporter: “Immigration laws are good and Godly! We elected our leaders and God allowed it.”
God allowed the Nazi party to be elected the leaders of Germany. Are we to believe that proves the Nuremberg laws were good and Godly?
11
The Washington Post published an article two years ago that showed how Evangelicals' views are better aligned with racial animus than any teaching of the Bible.
That seems to be the case in Mt. Pleasant.
8
Are Evangelicals Christian? I think not.
5
Always found evangelical churches a bit disturbing ; they always claim they will be the ones saved , which in essence means the rest of the world is damned . Even more disturbing is how easily the word is perverted to suit their beliefs ; was raised to respect all religions but as an adult I see the hypocrisy inherent when men interpret the bible to suit their false ideas . Charity truly begins at home , and in our hearts , not in policies , not necessarily a proponent of illegal immigration but there are worse sins , especially in hardened hearts , that is what is sinful . Was also raised to help those who need help , regardless of who they are or what they are .
7
I lived in Iowa for 20 years and have ridden RAGBRAI (the bike ride across Iowa) four times. People in Iowa have warm hearts and do adjust to change and welcome strangers. I am so tired of the he said/she said pattern of our politics and most journalism (including this piece) about politics. Why can't both sides of this debate be right? Isn't it reasonable for a country to have rules and processes for who can come into the country AND shouldn't we welcome new, legal immigrants with open arms? I am in favor of a quest worker process to allow people to come here to work when we have jobs that can't be filled with current citizens. I am in favor of a path to citizenship for people who come (legally) and contribute for a period of years. Current illegal immigrants could be given an opportunity to join the guest worker program and have years of work counted on the path to citizenship. Beyond the focus on low income jobs, let's orient our general immigration system towards people with skills we need (like Canada). Let's streamline and improve the legal immigration system. And, finally, let's secure the boarder and prosecute both employers who hire undocumented people who have come outside the guest worker program and deport immigrants who have broken the law. I am not sure that a wall will work, but if that is what it takes to assure people who do struggle paycheck to paycheck that the system is fair, then build the damn wall.
Ice is going after the easy to pick fruit- people working to support their families, paying taxes, and putting their hard earned money and time into their communities. These are the immigrants that have built and are building America. The harder job- catching the drug and human traffickers that crooked trump keeps saying he wants to stop but is not- is being cut short as resources are moved to support the brownshirt raids and family destruction.
2
Ivanka Trump has proven that she has given total support to her father’s beliefs and decisions related to this immigration control issue. Take this one step further, to where it should be, and to prove that he is treating those incarcerated children well, she should have her children spend the next 60 days, at a minimum, in a few of the same limited access sites which currently house children of the same age and sex. Again, she should not be allowed to see them. Oh, maybe we the taxpayers who are paying for all of this should also require that the children, those under 18 years of age, within a family of any Republican senator and representative, and that includes grandchildren, should face the same great treatment those in office claim that the currently incarcerated are receiving.
1
We need to fix our obsolete, broken, labyrinthine immigration system. People who want to come to the US should be able to apply and get in, without waiting decades and needing to spend tens of thousands of dollars in lawyer bills.
And white people--MEN--need to get over the idea that if the immigrants are denied entry, those $50/hour jobs with great benefits will come back. It's not happening. Those jobs where a person with no skills (and literacy) could make lots of money are long gone. The world has changed.
To raise wages, the business owner must be able to raise PRICES. If Americans are going to be employed again, we need to understand this.
201
Neither the Republicans or Democrats want to establish the e-verify program, which would force employers to hire citizens and legal immigrants. Yes, undocumented workers will work for lower wages, but that does not serve to make the country a better place; furthermore, it will make things even worse for the country's lower income citizens and legal residents.
And yes, employers would have to raise their prices to compensate for paying their workers better wages. And people will take these so-called "undesirable jobs" when they are offered decent living wages.
And so what if higher wages means that consumers have to pay more. The middle and upper classes (which include more than just "white people" will have to pay more to help raise the living standards for its most vulnerable.
It makes me sick to see how poorly paid some people are in the service industries who work very long and hard hours compared to many other relatively overpaid occupations.
America needs to stop worrying so much about illegal immigrants when it can't even take care of its own vulnerable residents.
4
Really..."white people-MEN-" *yawn*
Can we have liberal arguments without waving fingers at "white people -MEN-"? Such attempts at waking up the populace are now devolving into meaningless cliche.
Or, at best, they're shorthand for "I don't really understand the deeper arguments, but I'm going to try to push buttons anyhow."
2
Sure 'those' $50.00 hour jobs aren't 'coming back' ( they never existed for many ), but how about $15.00 an hour? or $16.00? Or anything better than the barely above minimum many jobs are paying with a surplus of workers vying for those jobs? A person working for $10.50 an hour who could make $15.00 if he didn't have to compete with millions of foreign born migrants probably would have a different attitude than yours, which is just a bit arrogant and clearly you don't see those Americans as having a valid complaint. Bet it would improve their lives a lot.
1
"Family values." Look at the picture of the church: its congregants are very old white people. Look at the picture of the Hispanics: family. This country needs immigration to rejuvenate itself. It cannot do that by importing Russians alone. That would subvert our American value of freedom. Hispanics have a long and rich presence in the US. We should be welcoming our neighbors and allies. Racism must be extirpated from this country before we shrivel and die as a democracy. Steve King is not mentioned anywhere in this article, but as a longstanding racist and bigot he would doubtless be complicit in the expulsion of members of his larger community. That the so-called "evangelical" Christians would so subvert gospel values is shameful. Evangelism is the good news, and Iowa churches should be sharing it with all their members. King is failing in his duties to protect all members of the state's community, and the so-called "evangelicals" are called to repentance. We have little time left to save our democracy. Let's start with the weakest and most vulnerable among us. That's what Jesus would do; that's what Jefferson and Washington at their best would do.
30
Immigrants are the reason the United States is rich. They have always worked hard and worked cheap, and American businesses have always hired them as a result.
2
Christianity is most of the problem in Latin America. It encourages over population in a place ill equipped to support such growth, discourages education and reduces women to breeders and nothing more. Frankly the world needs less Christianity and more reason and rationality.
6
You are not a Christian if you voted for and support Trump and his policies. Period. End of story.
10
Folks on the left using the Bible for guidance during tough political decisions? How precious.
I trust when it comes to abortion and defining marriage they will also consult scripture in the future.
@Lane: The left's position does not require consulting scripture to form secular government policy. What's "precious" are Christians proclaiming themselves moral leaders while empowering the most immoral president in a generation (I wasn't around for Nixon and even if I weren't, Trump would probably still take the cake).
The references to the bible just point out how often the conservative right is immoral not merely by atheistic standards, but by their OWN standards. Trump has got many high profile spiritual leaders goosestepping right along.
The Feds refuse to bring charges against the employers who are at best recklessly indifferent to hiring immigrants with fraudulent or missing documentation and at worst breaking the law with full knowledge of the law and the status of the people they are hiring. Could it be that they are white, English speaking and wealthy enough to afford competent attorneys, as well as politically connected with the local GOP establishment? And why do Trump businesses year in and year out seek to hire non-US persons to staff their country clubs and resorts through legal channels instead of hiring citizens that are already here and in need of jobs? Enough of this sickening hypocrisy that blames the weak and poor and lets those who benefit from employing non-citizens escape without sanction?
4
“We elected our leaders and God allowed it.” Did the author of this sentence think it through? We elected our leaders and God allowed: a massive tax cut for the richest 10 percent; tariff and trade wars with regular citizens in Mt. Pleasant, Iowa, paying more for their Harley’s, their John Deere tractors and mowers, their GM pickups or the parts they buy on their used trucks, the produce offered at Iowa’s HyVee grocery stores. The author will certainly be paying Caesar more because businesses will pass through the expense of Trump’s tariffs. Caesar indeed.
3
Some Christians say God says we must obey the law.
Business owners who take advantage of undocumented laborers disobey God's command. Do ICE and Sessions simply leave it to God to punish these scofflaw business owners? If ICE and Sessions weren't protected from The People by phalanges of armed guards, I might ask them that question.
3
What continues to amaze me is the self proclaimed evangelical churches, willingly go against the Bible, that they believe, is the literal word of God. You can slice and dice all you want to try to justify injustice, but the teachings of Jesus are plainly on the side of the oppressed. When evangelicals sold their souls for Trump, they did so completely.SAD.
3
Change the title of this piece to make it accurate. Everyone knows that Trump evangelicals do not practice "faith." Replace "Along Faith Lines" with "by Bigotry"--since that's what's really going on in this town.
5
Could God be teaching evangelicals a hard lesson through this immigration debate -- that God wants them to love their immigrant "neighbor" even if their president does not?
1
What would JESUS do ??? Certainly not what some of these " religious " people say, and do. Hypocrisy, MUCH ???
1
Please don't let anyone know -- if all the illegal immigrants were somehow sent out of the country, our economy would probably collapse, so dependent is it on the labor of these people.
3
Georgia lost a whole seasons crops when undocumented workers were rounded up.
Unless you have personal experience with people who are struggling through the American immigration system, you have no idea what it is like. It is complex, unfair and often illogical. Most of the Trump supporters on immigration seem to believe these myths: 1) It is easy to come here legally. (2) The borders are wide open and it is easy to just walk right in. (3) Those who oppose Trump's policy don't care about poor or average hard-working Americans. (4) Hurting the immigrants will help me or at least make me feel better.
5
"Chris Calabrese of the American Civil Liberties Union opposes E-Verify, citing concerns that it could expand into an onerous national ID system: 'Employers are not police officers, except in this one context where we suddenly want them to be law enforcement agents who are going to police their workforce.'[92] citation on E-Verify from Wikipedia.
Some states require the use of E-Verify to screen private employer applicants, some do not. Some exempt business with fewer than 50 employees, some fewer than 15...
Not sure what the Farm Bill says about expanding the Guest Worker program for Agriculture.
5
Nobody should apply the Bible (or any other religious text) to our laws. Obey and apply the laws, make changes or new ones. Use the Bible in your private life.
11
Vulcanalex, you’re exactly right—you’re wise to separate the two issues of obeying the law and heeding the call of the Gospel. One obvious reason is the potential for evil laws. For example, should Germans have obeyed the laws of the Nazis? Many chose to instead follow the Gospel and paid with their lives. But then, real Christianity is a tough business.
“Hey,” some might say, “how dare you compare our modern USA to Nazi Germany?” We’ll, you might want to consult those who are tracking the Trump presidency versus their checklists of the path to fascism. I was surprised myself when we found we had to give these lists a check for the kiddie concentration camps. We have a rich tradition in the US of real Christians finding they needed to break the laws (think Dr. King), and maybe we’re at another one of those points.
1
“We’ve got enough poor people here in Iowa that need help,” Mr. King said. “I work three jobs and still live paycheck to paycheck.”
“What about the ones living in Mount Pleasant who couldn’t find a job because they were employing illegal immigrants instead?”
The problem is that these are two very valid questions.
We will not see positive movement on this issue until these questions can be answered well.
“I know most of the people who run the factories,” he said. “They just can’t find help.”
this is because, in general, the wages drop to those that only illegal entrants can/will tolerate.
My brothers used to work in low-level construction.
in the past, they made decent wages.
however, their entire crew was replaced by illegal entrants around 2004.
Sure, there were jobs in construction everywhere... but they paid 1/2 of what they paid before.
21
And I'll bet your brothers and their co-workers were replaced because their unions were broken.
4
My response to "I work 3 jobs and still live paycheck to paycheck" is "Then why ON EARTH do you keep voting for Republicans, who oppose a living wage, the safety net, and unions (which would negotiate higher pay for you)?" I know it feels good to vent your spleen and blame the "other" for your misfortunes, but you have at least partially done this to yourself with your political allegiance to greedy conmen (and a few conwomen).
1
Did it ever occur to you that you should blame the white business and factory owners----most of whom are Trump supporters---for hiring these illegal immigrants and paying them very low wages so they can make huge profits? Instead you blame people who come here to escape abject poverty or situations in which their lives are in jeopardy. Crack down on the white Republicans who hire immigrants, because if they couldn't get jobs they wouldn't come. Just be prepared to pay $4 for a head of lettuce and to empty your own bedpan in a nursing home because white Americans will not work in the fields picking vegetables in the broiling sun for 12 hours or take care of America's elderly.
4
Religion, like economic theory, is usually an inherited trait, not something worked out rationally. In tribal situations, religion is often weaponised, and the bible becomes a spear. The shame of America is that so many brands of nastiness that pretend to be matters of "faith" are tax deductible. And immigrants do not depress wages: employers have trouble finding people not only for low end jobs but also for about 5 million high end jobs.
22
As a native Iowan (Durant, IA) who grew up just to the north of Mt. Pleasant, much of this does not surprise me. The Iowa folks I most love and respect harness their love for others and don’t let religion and politics get in the way of doing the right thing—often they use their religion effectively to find community with others. However, I have also spent a bulk of my life hearing others justify hatred, racism, sexism, etc. because of something either cherry-picked from the Bible (which, by the by, was written long after the time that Christ supposedly lived and is in no way a reliable document of fact) or based on stereotypes; these people like to make general assumptions and don’t even try to educate themselves or gain a deeper understanding of others. Because they were born white and Christian, they feel they are somehow exempted from ever being in the wrong. These are the people who cause their children and other young people to leave the state in droves. Rural America wasn’t killed by immigrants—it was killed by the very people who sat around complaining about their lot in life while they had the power to do something about it, but since it involved growing and changing, they just didn’t do it. These immigrants did something to gain a better life and respected the freedom that America once represented
65
We have laws in this country against hiring people who don’t have a green card. Why then was the business owner not charged? We need real immigration reform that would enable immigrants to enter this country legally, take jobs that most Americans won’t do and at the same time insure that their employers are following our labor laws and paying all relevant taxes so that these workers are not exploited or that American are not subjected to unfair competition by desperate and easily exploited workers from abroad.
26
Take-away sentence:
"No charges have been filed against the owners of the Midwest Precast Concrete plant in Mount Pleasant that was raided."
They broke the law also. Where is the evangelical condemnation of them? No one hires illegal aliens, many of them don't come to this country.
43
Employers are begging for E-Verify. When that wasn't provided, they assumed immigration enforcement was a sham.
5
They won't arrest or charge the business owners because their business would collapse if they no longer had access to cheap labor. In turn the economy would take a huge hit. Sad that Gov cares more about business profits than people (this applies to both political parties).
2
I live in a deep red state, where most small business owners are *not* begging for E-Verify.
Are the immigrants breaking the law? Sure, but so is the owner of the concrete plant, and yet "No charges have been filed against the owners of the Midwest Precast Concrete plant in Mount Pleasant that was raided."
That pretty much says it all to me.
57
Where is the moral outrage of the "Christians" about the employers who hire undocumented immigrants. After all, they broke the law too, didn't they? However, I see no tweets from the so-called president stirring up these people against the depraved capitalists who would break the law by hiring the undocumented. Where is the righteous anger and indignation against the employers? But then again, since I presume most of them are white and "Christian" they shouldn't be prosecuted
for violating the law, right? We only call people criminals if they're not white.
2
We don't use the bible when making political decisions in this country, we use the Constitution and our laws. BTW, it is a crime to knowingly HIRE undocumented workers, but not to be undocumented. You're simply undocumented, and the worst that can legally happen is you can be deported.
Leave the bible out of this, and anything in our public life. It's in the Constitution. First thing.
23
Bram Elias, a law professor at the University of Iowa. “By doing this raid,” he said, “the federal government has turned two dozen folks who were undocumented and living in the shadows into people definitely safe from deportation for five years, and possibly able to work lawfully.”
What nonsense. This is the same justification as the jailed immigrant kids are getting 3 meals argument. . As my dad said after my 3 degrees from the university "An education does not make you smart."
10
My take wasn't that Mr. Elias was supporting the policy, but pointing out its ironic outcome. In other words, the Trump policy is not wholly enforceable, but is being carried out for the publicity to appease the haters in his base.
4
I don't think he is arguing for the raid, just pointing out its consequence. These raids terrify workers and make them very docile. That is what people like Trump want. They are not for saving jobs for citizens over recent immigrants, they are for a terrified workforce.
4
The Trump supporter said "Immigration laws are... Godly. We elected our leaders and God allowed it." So elections and immigration laws are now religious matters, in the views of some? He seems to have missed the bit about separation of church and state.
I wonder how he might feel about separating kids from their parents at the border, which was done by the same elected President and similar law. Most conservative Christian voices have decried that as anti-family and against Christian values.
And is collusion with Russia now a religious experience too? And grabbing women's …? And tweeting insults?
Then there's the part about rendering unto Caesar. Wasn't that about Christ telling people to pay the taxes? How's Mr. Trump doing on that front? Unlike other Presidents we haven' t even seen his returns yet.
It's fine to be conservative and to be religious, and to be both at the same time. But when conservative values are twisted into excuses to hate, they are no longer values. And when the Bible is scanned selectively by the bigoted, to find rationalizations for their hatreds, the result is no longer Christianity or Christian. As a staunch Christian, I resent people misusing my religion to promote their hatreds.
Of course, if we fixed the immigration system, these folks could come here legally, and my ancestors did and probably his ancestors did as well. But that's too tied up in partisan politics and racist hatreds to get done any time soon.
24
It's somewhat fascinating to watch this play out. For the last 8 years, Congress, which has been frozen by political paralysis, has done nothing but was essentially bailed out of the harsh effects of our immigration laws by a President who knew what was right and worked around it. (Witness DACA.) Now that he's gone, we have Mr. Trump and Mr. Sessions who "simply want to enforce the laws as written." And yet even as we rip infants from their mother's arms, Congress does nothing. Change the laws! Something like 70% of Americans support DACA and yet we can get an up-or-down vote on it in Congress.
22
As a nonbeliever, I live by the simple rules to treat others with kindness, enjoy the brief time you have here and try to leave the world better than you found it. I applaud folks like Rev. Hegar who actually heed the teachings of Christ so ignored by his most vocal supposed followers. But I really don't understand why we still look to an ancient book of mythology as a guiding principle for our government.
14
In all seriousness, JB, that's a much better summary of what Jesus taught than most church goers get in a year of Sundays. Read the Gospels sometime and you'll be amazed at how different the picture is there from what most churches are.
The pious, hypocritical complainers about immigrants today, smug grandchildren of yesterday's immigrants, are today's version of the Pharisees and Sadducees, whom Jesus described as empty vessels, clean outside but filthy on the inside. This is not godliness, it is fear and self-centeredness enthroning itself heedless to the needs of other children of God.
If there's an afterlife, I suspect you'll meet a long lost friend from Palestine there, and I suspect there will be some very surprised "Evangelicals" in absentia, whose carping will not be missed.
4
Crossing the border without papers is criminal, but swindling contractors, bankrupting pension plans, adultery, are not.
Actually crossing without papers is a misdemeanor, not criminal. The use of criminal by those critics only serves to demonize those who seek a better life. They are saying it is criminal to seek safety, escape poverty, take what work they can find to support their families.
The twisted reasoning of Evangelicals tells you one thing, they seek to profit from hypocrisy.
68
People who steal are also, technically "seeking a better life." That doesn't keep them from going to jail and separating kids from their parent. One standard for everyone.
8
Misdemeanors are crimes. Entering the U.S. illegally is punishable by up six months in prison and up to a $5000 fine.
5
And the penalty for the criminals (i.e., business owners) who knowingly hire undocumented persons is what?
“No charges have been filed against the owners ”
Would the NYT and other papers please follow up on these raids, to see if owners are ever charged. As long as the owners are given free reign to hire the undocumented, then they will. The workers stand a good chance of being underpaid, overworked, without recourse should they be injured on the job. And American citizens, green card and visa holders will not be hired.
31
The process for legal hiring of those who might be undocumented is called E-Verify; that means an employer must search through the Federal and State data bases via SS numbers; if a prospective hire does not have a SS number to use for the collection of taxes, there is a problem. A hire can pay taxes through other State vehicles. It is a system which large employers can manage; a bit harder for a small business. Add to that the difficulty of policing Big Ag and temporary, seasonal field workers. How many workers on oil rigs are documented? How easy is it to police all the communities connected to the oil industry? How easy is it to keep track of seasonal workers who come and go? Finally, there are examples of round-ups which impacted local businesses: Georgia found its crops rotting in the fields for lack of workers after raids took away the undocumented. How many Americans are waiting in line to work in meat packing plants? Or to clean hotel and motel bathrooms for tips and less than minimum wages? This is an ugly enterprise meant to fire up a base, not to keep America safe, or to make us "great again". It is cynical; as if the man known to cheat workers of owed pay for work cares about workers, documented or not. He has never had a job in his life; he inherited a fortune, squandered it, went bankrupt 5 times, and now threatens the poorest and most vulnerable among us. Let's see his taxes; let's take a look at the Trump Hotel in D.C. and the Emoluments Clause.
20
Would you allow the employers to profile in order to weed out illegals from legal citizens or green card holders? Ask for proof of citizenship?
1
Employers already do that. "Profiling" implies looking for physical signs of possible illegal migrants. We saw the results of that with the Sheriff in AZ who, in very hot weather, housed his "prisoners" in tents where some died in that heat. Now we are taking children from parents, and deporting the parents who do not have the means or education to represent themselves in judicial Hearings or courtroom appearances. The children are often too young to provide any useful information; some understand and are frightened for their parents. If we have no paper records of those we are deporting, their children will have no way to find out where their parents are. If we do not see this as barbaric behavior on some level, we have lost our way. Even the Germans kept records allowing for reparations to be claimed later.
I know a farmer who every year needs 30-40 workers, who make about $15/hour. He is required to and happy to give preference to local citizens. Every year he only gets 1-3 locals who apply, are hired and then quit within a week. Its been years since a local citizen stayed for the season. His experience is very common in agriculture and other difficult occupations as it has been throughout our history. Everyone needs to think about what jobs their immigrant ancestors did.
74
Yep - this pattern plays out in statistically relevant sets as well. NC sees this pattern every season. https://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/article160086719.html
10
We need to expand the AG guest worker program...
2
Maybe if he did not have an illegal workforce he would be paying the $25 /hour that the job is worth, then maybe his workers would stay more than a week...
4
The incessant scapegoating of illegals in America--and the base cruelty that has gone with it--while unions are broken and wealth gaps widened is just devastatingly sad. The entire system right now appears focused on exploiting and oppressing the most vulnerable.
125
Why would the owners of the plant hire 32 workers from Mexico and other central american countries? Likely because the work is hard, dirty, possibly dangerous and low wage. Could they have found 32 citizens to work these jobs? Likely not. Would the proposed ideas of making immigration merit based have allowed these men in - doubt it. Crops will rot and plants may close but Trump doesn't care.
80
The next time an American dines in a good restaurant, check out who is washing dishes and standing over hot grills. Check out who the wait staff are who are working for low pay and tips. I personally hand decent tips when I travel, to the women who clean my room and to the people who wait on my table. If I can't afford to tip, I can't afford to travel unless I want to stay in hostels for the elderly. The only people I knew who did well in service jobs were friends in college who worked the big hotels at Tahoe, the gambling side.
8
Kent, you were absolutely correct ! read that tire shop owner said: he paid $16--$24/hr with benefit still had hard time to get help ? America is an immigration country. get rid of ALL immigrants, we would only have the American Indians left. with lower birth rate, America needs new immigrants to carry on and making our society functioning. we need them to provide most of the services we enjoy while providing them safety ( from government oppression, gang violence, religious persecution ...), better lives and futures, just like ALL our forefathers coming to this land ever dreamed of.
10
If Midwest Precast Concrete can't be prosecuted, as they should be, they should be at least ashamed.
Then, the state, the city and corporations that have paid for their products need to be aware they have supported a company which hires illegal immigrant workers.
Someone needs to explain why taxes collected at state and local levels need to be used on the product of this company.
21
Then the plant can close when they can't find enough Americans who are willing to inhale cement dust particles. The community might be suffering some; the workers are suffering a lot. As usual the salesman in the Oval Office has sold a lot of people a lot of bigoted nonsense. Those who rejected Crooked Hillary in the "heartland" and chose the guy who promised to open the closed factories, are still waiting for the shuttered factories to open, while waiting for their unemployment benefits to end. Their children will not get the education benefits Hillary had in her platform; they will not get travel expenses to go find jobs elsewhere, as Hillary had in her platform; they will not get paid for job re-training, as Hillary had in her platform. In fact, they will get nothing except for the brief pleasure of scapegoating the poorest among them.
3
And, by the way, that employment retraining you mention? That was promised as a part of NAFTA.
If Bill Clintons' administration didn't deliver on that promise should we rely on other, similar promises? Who believes a laundry list of campaign promises anymore? Please don't wave H Clintons' campaign at me, it means nothing now.
1
Linda, go to the company's website - the plant closes and the owner and his entire family will be out of work, too. Think that would or should happen?
They need to be put on the right track towards I9 compliance, pay a decent wage and be proud of their product.
1
Yes, it's a scandal that people in the United States have to work three jobs to make ends meet, but why do they continue to blame migrant workers for it? Why not blame Republicans who refuse to raise the minimum wage, oppose affordable healthcare and work every day to bust up unions whose collective bargaining has created livable wages, benefits and working conditions? They're falling for the oldest trick in the book - divide and conquer.
313
1) Illegal migrant workers depress wages. That's just the laws of supply and demand.
2) Unions may have created livable wages, but they also engaged in corrupt practices and drove many industries out of the U.S.
3) If you think Obamacare is "affordable healthcare" you clearly have not been a victim of it.
4) The tire guy is paying well over minimum wage and can't find people. Minimum wage is irrelevant to most of these discussions.
7
1) Go after the employers, not to the poor workers.
2) Corporations lost their foreign tax benefits, and are now
asking to return their profits at "individual" tax rates.
3) 22M people are now insured who had no insurance
prior to the ACA, and many States and cities subsidize
the premiums. The mandate was subverted, and a
younger healthier population was allowed to opt out.
4) The tire guy is facing a demographic of those who do
not want to do that hard work, regardless of national
origin.
3
Fine w/#1 and #2. BUT:
#3. Uhm, what does OMAMACARE have to do with this discussion?
#4. Actually the hourly wage does have a lot to do with the discussion.
To me the persistent parsing of individual short phrases from the Bible and interpreting them in the absence of the intent of the whole book turns many such "biblical scholars" into hypocrites.
Fundamentally, people have every intent on doing whatever they feel like and search the Bible for justification. Used that way the Bible is of questionable value if not truly evil. (Don't parse that phrase, I didn't say the Bible is evil.)
The bible is a work that describes the preparation of mankind for the coming of Jesus, God, according to Biblical beliefs.
In all of this discussion of utter despicable cruelty to immigrants and justification through the Bible, no one seems to ask the fundamental question, "is this what Jesus would do?"
That question is fundamental to the whole Book. Anyone who cannot answer that question and reach the conclusion that, NO, Jesus would not have taken small children from their mothers and then blamed that contemptible act on someone else and justified it by cherry picking phrases from the Bible.
People who do that have no clue what they are reading when they read the story of Jesus, the Bible. It is just being exploited as a tool to justify evil.
58
To simply restate "They are breaking the law." is easy, convenient, and wrong-headed. What would these "religious" people say about the Fugitive Slave Act.
102
Their employers were also breaking the law yet were not charged.
10
Those fought hardest against the Fugitive Slave Act were from the North, and did not own slaves. Washington freed his wife's slaves upon her death. Jefferson treated his slaves better than we treat our exploited undocumented workers. Finally, the Founders wrote a Constitution open to Amendments, and the Fugitive Slave Act was never extended to new territories.
Let's stop using the Bush political euphemism "faith" for "religion". They are not the same. The town is divided along *religious* lines.
34
The message of Jesus was primarily to love and forgive and help those in need. Using his name to justify cruelty is about as far away from his teachings as you can get.
135
Thinking of some descriptions of Jesus from the gospels and histories, he didn't dress any better than those he was preaching about, the poor and oppressed. In the current world of Trump's ICE Jesus would now be housed in some big detention camp. We need him; we need MLK; we need Bobby. We need all of us who are not calling poor migrants "animals" to continue to speak out, to vote, and not give up. We outnumber those who are Trump's base; we are a big demographic, and we are neither mean nor bigoted. We are ordinary Americans who will not support an unqualified, mean, petty little man who is "just following orders" given by an overfed demagogue. This is not 1939; we are not reeling from a deep financial Depression; we are already a powerful military State; we voted in the majority for Clinton by 3M votes.
This points out major failures in the immigration system: The owners of the factory employing these people MUST face heavy punishment. The first order of immigration control should be requiring employers to vet the people they hire for their immigration status. The second order should be to help the countries where these people are coming from to get control of the violence and drug smuggling and gangs that are forcing them to run in fear for their lives. How many of the people we deport will be killed when they get where we send them? I hope someone is keeping track of that.
20
In the text of the article several business owners stated that many jobs were available yet you complain that immigrants are taking the jobs away from Americans. It cannot be both.
27
It seems authorities can't even keep track of infants and toddlers taken from their parents. What hope is there of keeping track of how many deported people get murdered once back in their "home" countries?
5
Why would we keep track of that? We are not even keeping track of the children we took from them. We have broken families; poor as they might be, we took what they had: their children.
On the religion matter: I am an atheist. I am because I have never known a situation where a quote COULDN'T be found.
You need a quote?
The Bible has one.
Given that, I have nothing to say about the matter of religion.
So, let's talk secular laws.
There are laws on the books that forbid EMPLOYERS from hiring "illegals".
Supposedly, if you hire a person who has no proof of citizenship or legal documents to work, then, you, the owner/employer are susceptible to arrest, to being fined and/or imprisoned.
How many times has that law been used?
As far as I know, 4 times since it was passed back in the Reagan days.
I say, Lock 'em up.
I'd rather have grown adults in cages than 2-year-old's.
I'm tired of this argument always being about "those people" who are breaking the laws.
As far as I can see there's a LOT of people breaking laws in this country, starting with the Attorney General and the president.
I have called upon the United Nations to step in on this.
There are thousands of children missing and missing parents.
I want to know why, how, and who done it.
If this country can't straighten this out then perhaps we need a "Higher Authority" - namely the United Nations.
The whole world is watching.
There are crimes happening all over this country.
Fix it.
42
Thank you, Rosa. Well said.
1
No one should ever forget where the churches are coming from with respect to immigration -- legal or illegal: they are in full on marketing mode, looking for new enlistees to offset shrinking total population, especially church going population.
I looked at the demographics of Mt Pleasant. It is only about 8% Hispanic. I'll bet that if the Feds dig into this, they will find that the cement plant owners or, at least, a couple of key foremen, engaged in outreach to recruit illegal "immigrant" workers. Going after any employer who did this would get my full support.
18
Regardless of religious belief or the lack of it, we can all agree that the Bible does NOT say, of the true monotheistic values, that "the greatest of these" is hate!
17
I hope this business gets fined enough to change its hiring policies. If the workers used forged documents, they need to do jail time and then get deported. Zero tolerance for this type of crime.
9
It is not a felony, it is a misdemeanor. And how much more money do you want to siphon away from domestic needs to the for profit prison and jail complex? Fortunately for us, the Founding Fathers did not face what you are in favor of. My maternal antecedents who fled the famine in Ireland arrived without "papers"; they were fleeing for their lives from starvation and a brutal British occupation. These migrants are fleeing from corrupt governments and violent drug gangs. They will assimilate, work hard and contribute. So calm down.
So glad that that Presbyterian pastor thought deeply and with his heart about what Christianity is truly about. Jesus did not come to earth to preach "obey the law." He came to earth to teach about love and forgiveness, and spiritual goodness. When laws are being used to abuse extraordinarily vulnerable people, that calls for a Christ-like response.
Thank you to those religious leaders who are thinking, truly, about what spiritual goodness is truly about.
39
Another story where the fat cat factory owners who hire these folks get off scott-free. My God, they aren’t even charged! It seems to me to be a big waste of money to just arrest the illegal workers as long as corrupt corporations and small businessmen entice them to enter illegally. It’s like jailing drug users while writing a blank check to the pushers.
36
Don't worry, it's all for show. Everyone in Mount Pleasant, including the employers know that the latino workers are illegal. The conservatives there know that without the illegal workers the concrete plant will have to close down. But those same conservatives that call the illegals "Criminals" (technically correct) will not in their live times take those jobs. Nor will they call for the arrests and prosecution of the Owner.
Any employer who claims that they didn't know that their workers, who barely speak English, and know nothing about American culture are legally here are lying. It's simple, if we want to stop illegal immigration we have to do 2 things: 1) prosecute employers, and 2) convince Americans to do the jobs.
31
The law of supply and demand would indicate that, if the supply of illegal workers willing to do dirty jobs for low wages dries up, then the providers of those jobs will be forced to offer higher wages to convince Americans to do the jobs.
4
Unfortunately, history has shown that if given the chance, most of those employers will try to pack up production and move it to a location with cheaper labor. Most Americans have gotten too addicted to their nonstop shopping mania for cheap goods produced by low wage workers in depressed economies, and would be hard pressed to support a more select market of high quality, skilled American born labor produced products. Lesser of them, too.
1
How high do you think wages have to rise to get "real Americans" to do stoop labor on farms? How much would you want to be paid to do that work?
3
These foreign aliens are criminals and should be imprisoned and then deported. The corporate executives who hired them should be fined or imprisoned. I am fine with taking in some immigrants but there are rules that need to be followed. As they say, a country that can't defend its borders is not really a country.
7
Everyone in this country, except for Native Americans, meaning American Indians, is the descendant of immigrants. We have more Irish than Ireland and more Jews than Israel and more Norwegians than Norway because they came as immigrants.
27
You're argument will make more sense when ICE arrests and deports Melania Trump, who overstayed her visa and worked as a model when she was here illegally, as well as her parents, who came in as chain immigrants. Rules must be followed!!!
34
Yes, they came as immigrants to open up a largely empty country. And they came in legally. No one objects to immigration but it's a very different thing from illegal immigration.
Native Americans immigrated here as well, just before everyone else.
Christian defenders of Trump seem to be focused on twisting a select few bible passages into a wildly convoluted justification of his wanton cruelty. Segregation supporters did the exact same thing, in a precisely identical way, during the 1950s.
37
It has long confounded me why any "faith based" American would have selected DJT for the Presidency.
Yes, I am aware of the SCOTUS argument which seemingly vindicates their choice, but did they not lose sight of the whole with their tunnel vision selection?
They may indeed have won SCOTUS... but the price may be democracy itself. Adding in incidentals such as the rape and pillage of our environment, our nation being perceived as unreliable by allies, our president's obsequious relationship with authoritarian despots, our unnecessary trade war with allies, the potential loss of healthcare for millions, and the depletion of our treasury for the benefit of the super-rich, and the loss of any social safety net.
Good people of the heartland and rust belt, you have reaped the bounty of a Pyrrhic victory. There was ample information as to the poor character of this man born to wealth, whose life-long concern was only for self, and whose actions only hurt others.
Shame on you, for we all will pay heavily for your error!
48
Mr. Hegar is right, As Christians we have to follow Christ. Any scripture from the New testament that are the word of Christ need to be put ahead of all other scripture. That's who Christians are. Followers of Christ. Love thy neighbor as thyself. It's not complicated.
17
The relevant lesson from the Gospel is Matthew 25:31-46. Jesus is separating the sheep from the goats based on how we have treated others. "40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’" Christians are faced with a clear choice between support for Trump's cruel and inhumane policies toward the most vulnerable among us or following Jesus' teachings. Let us not pretend that Christianity does not set out a paradigm for moral reasoning regarding our political affiliations. I pray that my Christian brothers and sisters will choose to follow Jesus and reject Donald Trump.
42
In the article, Garrett Carlston asks, “What about the ones living in Mount Pleasant who couldn’t find a job because they were employing illegal immigrants instead?”
Well, and this is just a guess, but there may be 32 job openings at the local concrete plant for Mount Pleasant citizens who want work.
24
Read the article more carefully. Unemployment is quite low there, and businesses are having trouble finding the number of people they need to hire.
10
Not holding my breath, with the local unemployment rate at a cited 2.9%.
8
Reread it, there are plenty of jobs available for unemployed white men.
1
Was the factory owner arrested? It is no less a criminal than the workers. And Mr. Heyer is kidding himself regarding his evangelical collegues.
18
So Americans won't work in concrete plants? Oh, they would but the owners would make a little less money. The horror.
14
Religious organizations can mitigate the effects of these raids by supplying the illegal immigrants and their families with the necessities of life, but beyond that,
taking political positions is not appropriate.
A textbook defintion of political correctness if ever I heard one.
1
@ James Noble
I agree that religious organizations should not be political.. I do not see these people taking political positions, but moral ones. It just happens that they are standing up to, or defending, an amoral political system that is causing the moral conflict. The use of moral guidance, whether it be wrapped in religion or just a humanistic stance, is valid either way. In this instance, showing compassion for other's is just that. Warped hate, is warped hate, no matter who, or from where or why, they are speaking about it. These people vote as individuals, if they so choose, and that is the ultimate voicing of their political positions. Lets hope they remember that when it comes time to do so.
4
Nonsense. "Religious organizations" take political positions all the time. If they didn't we probably wouldn't have our current deplorable President.
1
I grew up on a farm outside Mt. Pleasant. Then it was a Republican, anti-union town, but times changed a bit after I left. This shows that it hasn't changed enough since, "No charges have been filed against the owners of the Midwest Precast Concrete plant in Mount Pleasant that was raided."
The owners should be fined for every day they employed undocumented workers. In addition, allow both citizens and non-citizens--no matter their status--to demand decent wages and living conditions. The crackdown on union organizing, linked to Ronald Reagan's administration in particular, has allowed owners to hire workers who are afraid to unionize. Undocumented workers are the most vulnerable and that's the reason Midwest Precast Concrete hired them. If the church janitor working 3 jobs accepts his fate and blames the "illegal" workers in the concrete plant, he is simply sealing his fate. He will never get a decent wage so long as he blames other victims like himself.
53
Are actions taken against the owners of businesses
that hire illegals?
That's the dirty little story that isn't talked about. Businesses love to hire illegals - they work hard, they work for less, they don't get benefits, and they don't complain.
It seems like if you really want to do something about this supposed problem it would be much more efficient and effective to throw one owner in jail for a few weeks than the 50 illegals working there
29
In this locality there aren't enough workers to fill the available jobs. Doesn't the article make that manifestly clear? Immigrants, legal and illegal are needed to make things run. If unions have been broken and wages are kept low, the citizens of their town and state can point to the Republican representatives, governors, and senators they persist in electing who are anti-union. Do they? No! They keep electing them and blaming their fellow workers - the immigrants - because they have to work 3 low-paying jobs that if the Democrats got their way wouldn't be low-paying. If it were up to Democrats, unions would be empowered and wages would be higher. Somehow they don't get that message. In the meantime, they live as utter hypocrites, piously preaching the Bible and violating it when it comes to the strangers amongst them. Pharisees!
31
Getting people to embrace the victim mentality and blame “the other”, in this case immigrants, is one of the hallmark steps toward fascism.
1
No matter what you want to justify, you can find some obscure reference in the Bible or even the Koran. The fact is; as long as employers are never charged for hiring immigrants, the practice will go on. ICE will move in and put workers in leg-irons and handcuffs on full display to feed Trump's base. The employer will simply hire more immigrants. Its all theater, and its pretty sick.
21
Doesn’t this exactly illustrate the reason the framers of the Constitution separated church and state?
12
The self-proclaimed Evangelical Christians in this article apparently wish that the US government follow the Evangelical version/interpretation of Christianity as the basis for making and enforcing US laws, which is illegal according to Thomas Jefferson's interpretation of the Constitution's First Amendment's intent and function. Trump's Evangelical followers would like nothing better than to use their Christian Bible interpretation to create laws in the US, but if one were to remind them that, in doing so, they are no different than those who set up religious governments under Sharia law, they would howl with indignity and rage. Religion has no place in the US government, the creation of federal or state laws, or their subsequent enforcement; not now, not at our founding, and not in the future. Period.
26
It seems to me that the operators of the cement plant should be:
financially obligated to relocate the immigrants back to their homes;
required to compensate their competitors who are hiring legal workers;
and prosecuted according to the law.
17
The article begins with people producing bible quotes to support contradictory viewpoints. Well, hello, no matter what your viewpoint is, almost certainly you will find at least one bible quote strongly supporting it and another strongly opposing it. But, the article just leaves this contradiction in place without further comment. Well, there is further comment:
It's high time we tell all, politicians, religious leaders, civil rights leaders, and the population at large, that this Country is founded on the U.S. Constitution which explicitly states that religions are not part of how we govern ourselves. They can base their personal behavior on religious grounds, whether the bible is involved or not, but only to the extent that behavior does not violate the U.S. Constitution. When it comes to professional behavior, particularly in government, they should not even mention the bible or any other "holy" book. Ours is a secular Country.
21
The story brings out the central issue. There is no point to building a wall when there is a big "HELP WANTED" neon sign lit up behind it. They come in order to work and the people who hire them do so with impunity.
Likewise, we complain about the drugs that are smuggled in, mostly through our ports, and the people who grow and ship them. But, they do so because "we" want those drugs.
In both cases, turn off the sign and stop using drugs, and it all stops. ECON 10: supply and demand. As long as there is demand, someone will find a supply.
Solution: work permits and drug legalization. Wasn't that easy?
16
People who agree that biblical scripture trumps federal immigration and asylum laws they disapprove of must also agree it trumps other federal laws and Supreme Court rulings of which they approve. The same logic would also applies to the Koran, the Torah and other scriptures. If so, than we should replace the Supreme Court, federal courts and state courts with ecclesiastical courts.
18
Mr. Case: Our founding fathers were civilly disobedient to England. They disagreed along moral and economic lines. This is not about scriptures "trumping" anything. It is about what it is right to do.
Trump's policy of separating children from parents is morally wrong, and I suspect that you know that. Forcing people to return to their death...is morally wrong. I agree with the passage from Leviticus, it is a better way to live and makes for a better society all around.
Hate is corrosive.
I am not saying throw open the borders to anyone who wants to come in at any time. We do need appropriate border enforcement; but we need--even more--to find a way in this world to make it livable for everyone and then they can stay in their own countries. The U.S. history of involvement in Central America...destabilized those countries and assured that people who supported fairer economic policies would be marginalized and even killed. We have a hand in what happened there...so it is no wonder that we are reaping what was sown in terms of people wanting to come to this country which is safer for them.
12
My comment was directed at religious leaders who counter references to federal immigration and asylum laws by citing scripture, as if scripture should override federal law. I did not comment on your views about U.S. involvement in Central America.
1
I understand what you are commenting on, and that it did not include my views expressed in the comments. However, yours is a game move, a lawyer-ly move, in response. Trying to keep the issue narrowed to a small point. As if we are trying to settle a point of law and exclude other influencing factors.
Mine was a contextualizing comment. The strife we are facing as a nation cannot be narrowed to a tiny principle which is not considered within the larger context. I am trying to enlarge the the number of principles we are considering as we try to solve these thorny issues we are facing as a nation.
Religious leaders are making stands based on religious mores. Civil disobedience arises from a disagreement with a hegemony that is legally enshrined, but clearly morally wrong.
And our country was founded due to what started as a civil disobedience to taxation without representation. It was about the unfairness of that "law" of England.
This situation is unfair and to understand why, we have to look at the context giving rise to this very difficult situation our country faces. There are no easy solutions, but we can strive to be moral and fair, and not try to solve an issue based on a very narrow argument.
1
That two “religious” individuals can refer to the holy book in which they both believe demonstrates the wisdom of the First Amendment’s separation of social governance and personal faith. If you can justify a political position solely by referring to your religious texts, you should reconsider whether it’s an appropriate position for government action.
20
Pretty obvious this is all for show. Once again they do nothing to punish the people who hire the illegal immigrants. The reason there are illegal immigrants is that they can indeed find jobs.
Arresting and being cruel to desperate people is playing well with the Trump base of so-called Christians, who because of their own failings are not doing so well - but just like Trump they always figure out some twisted logic to blame that on others.
65
A few highlights from the comments.
Why are so many "Christians' opposed to the teachings of Christ? Love, forgiveness and withholding judgment were fundamental lessons. Do any of these supposed followers actually believe the religious figure of Christ would support zero tolerance?
Many noted the total lack of accountability for the employers in these stories. This leads to a very simple and cheap strategy to end illegal immigration, if one was actually serious about accomplishing this. The Republicans could easily pass a national ID and extremely large financial penalties for employers who fail to get copies of these IDs. If you remove the incentive, you will stop the problem. This would cost a TINY fraction of what we currently spend and allow us to focus our law enforcement resources on serious criminal behavior. I personally don't think any of this is necessary and this is all more of an abstract argument about what is right than a practical issue we need to deal with, but if Republicans really believed in this they could easily accomplish it.
15
It is my strongly held religious belief that much of what the trump administration is doing is morally wrong and un-Godly, including its treatment of asylum-seeking infants and toddlers and the widely-reported frequent lying or obfuscating of its upper-level staff (such as the Press “Secret-ary”)
Question (1) to Supreme Court candidates, Hobby Lobby execs, and small business cake shop owners: Do I have a Constitutional right to, without penalty, refuse to follow its policies and practices and/or to refuse to seat, serve, cook for, and clean up after one of its senior staff who is known to promote its morally-abhorrent (according to my strongly-held religious beliefs as, say, articulated in both the Christian and Hebrew Bibles) policies and practices?
Question (2): Is what’s good for (or the right of) the xeno- and other-phobic goose also good for the the the less-afraid-and-hatefilled vast-majority-of-us ganders?
12
What purpose was served by the raid on the cement plant, other than to terrorize the workers?
And if “enforcing the law” is so important, shouldn’t priority be given to those causing the most harm?
12
Conservative evangelicals christians are little more than members of a club who pick and choose which parts of the bible they want to acknowledge. In their world even the ten commandments come with asterisks. Thou shalt not lie, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not covet - those are for everyone else, not members of the club. And that "love one another" stuff? It doesn't apply to all those "others." Even their president has told them those 'others' are nothing more than animals. After all, those pictures of Jesus with blue eyes are proof - god is a white male, and that makes them superior.
41
"No charges have been filed against the owners of the Midwest Precast Concrete plant in Mount Pleasant that was raided."
And therein lies the problem. Until the people that hire the undocumented are put in jail, the undocumented will continue to find a way to cross the border, wall or no wall.
36
To Mr. Carlston re your comment
“What about the ones living in Mount Pleasant who couldn’t find a job because they were employing illegal immigrants instead?”
Do you have any particular personal stories that illustrate your concern that someone couldn't find a job because of "illegal" immigrants being hired instead? If not, how do you know this
actually has happened so often that the only reasonable solution is the action that recently occurred in Mt. Pleasant?
And on a related matter, what do you think should be done
about the owners and managers of companies that employ
"illegals"? Are they too not guilty of breaking the law by
conducting, at best, a superficial background check of
their workforce? If you agree with that assertion, what
is your suggestion? Are you not troubled by the fact that
it is so easy for companies to hire "illegals", and do you believe that fixing that would be sufficient to reduce the flow into this country
of "illegals"? Why must it be the case that the only ones who
genuinely suffer the brunt of federal border patrol policing
are the "illegals" and not those who conspire to hire them?
30
On he other hand, if the wages were fair, wouldn't workers make themselves available? That's the part you miss.
3
The wages are probably not fair because owner/managers feel sure about beating a spurious system of identification, which allows them to be confident about hiring "illegals" without penalty, and whom they also realize are willing to work at a lower rate. This is elementary market behavior. So, said owners
have a vested interest in exploiting a spurious worker id system. It's a type of gaming of a system for your own gain.
What I am curious to learn about is what happens afterwards when "illegals" have been purged from a workplace or town. Do the wages for such unpleasant jobs (concrete, meat processing, farm labor etc.) go up? Do local "legals" emerge to take jobs that are in such very unpleasant occupations?
It has been hard to get any data, even anecdotal, of a reliable nature about this. By now, I would think there was evidence of what ensues.
1
Thank you, Rev. Hegar, for reminding our nationalistic fellow Christians to stop parsing Scripture and just obey the teaching of Jesus: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Any Christian who is not obeying this command is not obeying Jesus, period.
23
And that “do unto others” message us not just a Christian one. the esteemed ancient Rabbi Hillel said all of the Bible could be summed up that way, and with the guiding principle:
Do not do unto others what is hateful to you.
How are blue collar workers supposed to get higher wages and better working conditions without periodic tight labor markets ? We are in the middle of an economic boom now, but if the U.S. keeps importing low skill immigrants, legal and illegal, then citizens have to compete with immigrants during an average economy and during recessions. In addition, automation will decrease the number of low skill jobs. Why should citizens have to compete for the remaining jobs with legal and illegal immigrants ? Unions and the minimum wage can help improve low pay, but if there are too many low skill workers around, the everyone suffers. Don't be fooled by the global plutocrats who continuously scream "worker shortage" - they just want millions of desperate workers available at a moments notice to take slave wages, no benefits, and lousy conditions. Also remember that the labor participation rate is still high and the higher pay now being offered for blue collar jobs may get these people into the labor force again.
10
Who is responsible for the fact that undocumented workers can find jobs so easily? Maybe we should make bio-identity green cards more readily available and require that employers verify the bio-identity cards before hiring people. What makes the workers illegal is more than anything the absence of proper documentation.
5
W.A. - Who is responsible ? Globalist plutocrats (CEOs and corporate officers), the establishment leaders of the Republicans and Democrats, the US Chamber of Commerce, and their sellout conspirators in academia. I believe E-verify should be mandatory, except for agricultural jobs which are hard to fill with citizens. But only 5% of illegal aliens have these jobs. The other 95% work landscaping, construction, janitorial, warehouse, restaurant, and hotel jobs in medium and big cities. Citizens will perform all this work, especially when the pay and conditions are better. Everyone wants to "Walmart" these jobs because they want everything to be cheap, but that means the working class will have perpetually low wages - Pay a first world wage, not a third world wage ! And a typo from above - the labor participation rate is low by historical standards.
1
Citizens are NOT competing with the low-wage workers. You must have read that the businesses in Mt. Pleasant said they need help that they can't get. This complaint is only a dog whistle. Black and brown people taking away our livelihoods -- that myth iswhat it's all about. I am embarrassed by the lack of real information my fellow "Americans" have and by their meanness. I call the "Americans" because people like Enough Humans are not worthy of being called by what I consider a name for kind and just people.
1
It really irks me to hear people like Mr. King talk about this as if it were a simple issue, where either you have to support the Trump/Sessions policy, or you have to "open [our borders] to everybody". No we don't! That's a false choice. It's what Trump and Sessions want you to think, but can't we please be more reasonable and thoughtful about this? Not everything is a simple either/or problem. People need to stop simply reacting on superficial feelings and start acting and thinking like thoughtful adults.
43
Care to suggest something?
I do not believe there is any way to have an unenforced immigration system. I do not believe there is any way to enforce immigration or any other kind of law without scaring lawbreakers and "being mean".
5
@Kurfco: No one -- **no one** -- is advocating an "unenforced" immigration system! Where do you get that from? The current system and laws are flawed, unsustainable, and enforced inconsistently. We need to revisit the entire question and start from scratch. What are our values as a country? Simple, easy answers -- such as "enforce the law" or "we need to establish border security" -- are inadequate and don't solve the problem. Neither does characterizing would-be immigrants as "animals" or "vermin", or assuming that immigrants will take away jobs or be a huge tax burden, because none of it is more myth than reality.
The part I found most interesting in this article was the statement that "the view that immigrants take jobs from citizens or depress wages was a common one". Business owners in the community disputed this saying "many factories can't find help" and have "Hiring" signs on display.
This is a serious disconnect and one I have seen in my own community. There are plenty of jobs, employers have to raise their hourly salaries to get workers, yet there are still people who express the view that immigrants are taking away their jobs!
Having talked with some of these people it seems to me that their real fear lies in their personal insecurities about getting any job at all.
And then there are those like the Janitor who is holding down three jobs but still lives pay check to paycheck. That's a real thing these days. But it's not because of immigrants. It's because of unregulated corporate greed, lack of genuine support of workers and all the rest of it. But it's an easy thing these days to scapegoat immigrants . That's disturbing.
239
I went to buy a car. The dealer wanted $20,000. I told him $22,500 and not a penny less, just to be fair.
No one, not even you, pays more than the going rate for anything. Ever. If, as an employer, I'm willing to pay $12 an hour and there are a lot of Hispanic workers who are willing to work for $10 an hour and present papers that make them look legal, there is no way I would pay $12 an hour or anything higher.
Illegal "immigrants" take jobs by being willing to work for less under conditions no legal worker would tolerate.
And pssst, Democrats who ostensibly care about worker rights, no employer will ever provide better working conditions and better pay as long as there are plenty of illegal workers you are focused on helping so they can continue to undercut wages for legal workers.
5
Back on planet earth macro economists who have a studied the matter have found that businesses ROUTINELY pay more than the going rate to those with whom they have a trusted relationship.
And in California, and in all fifty, there are dealerships known to charge more and some known To charge less as dealerships segment the market on some basis other than straight price.
On planet earth it works the that way.
The beauty and indeed the utility of "holy" books is the plethora of conflicting instruction, allowing each and every one of us to rely on his or her moral compass and strength of conscience.
This we have the history of man, repeated again and again.
6
Our laws allow foreigners (aliens) to seek entry and citizenship. Those who do not follow these laws are in this country illegally (i.e., illegal aliens) and should be detained and deported; this is policy in other countries, too.
We cannot afford to support our own citizens: the poor, the ill, elderly, disabled, veterans, et al. It is therefore utterly impossible for US taxpayers to support the millions of foreigners who would like to come to the US.
The cruelty lies not in detaining and deporting illegal aliens, or forcing those who wish to enter the US to wait for processing. What is cruel, unethical and probably illegal is encouraging parents to bring their children on the dangerous trek to US borders and teaching them how to game the system to enter the US by falsely claiming asylum, persecution, abuse, etc.
Abolishing ICE makes sense only to advocates of open borders, a policy no nation will ever approve. We will lose the mid-terms and 2020 elections if open borders becomes part of the Democratic platform.
7
This country CHOOSES not to care for our poor, sick and others through the mean spirited and greed based laws enacted on both national and state levels. That’s the result of Republican less government policy where the promise of good jobs and a roaring economy as a result of tax breaks is a lie, and states refusal of Medicaid expansion leaves the working poor not able to afford healthcare or medication. Also it sounds like a familiar story of a rust belt town where folks cry poor mouth but the reality is many are too lazy to work or look for jobs and choose not to work (I’m referring to “Hillbilly Elegy) and the story told by the author.
29
Under the Clinton and Obama administrations the US also chose not to care for our poor, sick and others. I don't believe either party has a monopoly on such failure to care.
Mon Ray, what party controlled the Legislative branch for most of the 16 years that encompassed the terms of Presidents Clinton and Obama, not to mention the Republican President that served between there terms? And is that controlling party magnanimous in their support of the general public?
Mr Trump's immigration crack down has hurt numerous factions of our society including agriculture, meat packing, construction, seasonal labor as well as cement plants. To label these people as criminals is criminal. They are part of the fabric of our society. They seek opportunity and a better life. They start new businesses at a high rate and help to revitalize communities. We have room. While I agree that coming here illegally is wrong, we are also culpable in making it so difficult to legally immigrate. To deny , however, that immigrants don't fill vital roles and contribute to our society is based on nothing more than fear mongering and inflammatory rhetoric of Trump.
16
It seems "curious" that Trump had no trouble getting enough temporary visas for foreign workers at Mar-a-Lago during such a visa shortage. Many groups have reported that they have trained American restaurant workers in the area, but Mar-a-Lago will not even talk to them. The ad to work at Mar-a-Lago was buried in tiny font and you could only apply Fax. Who today still as a fax?
8
"Mr Trump's immigration crack down has hurt numerous factions of our society including agriculture, meat packing, construction ..."
Now that Trump is cracking down on the undocumented, farmers are finally tuning to robots to do farm work. They are purchasing machines and are investing in the development of other machines that should be able to replace most farm laborers.
Meat packing paid wages that allowed a middle class lifestyle. Then, employers realized they could hire undocumented workers who were willing to accept low wages and not complain about unsafe work conditions (eg. having to stand on slippery, grease-coated floors to cut meat on fast-moving assembly belts with dull knives). Some wonder how many of our citizens, who lost their jobs in areas such as meat packing, found they could no longer find work to make ends meet and so exaggerated their ailments to qualify for SSI.
When Free Trade pacts let manufacturer move their factories abroad to use cheap labor and then bring their products back here to sell without any tariffs, their former factory workers found good paying jobs in construction. Then the Great Recession brought construction nearly to a stand-still. When the Recession ended, builders decided to hire the undocumented for less money than their former workers. Meat packing plants and construction sites are filled with Spanish speakers, while our own citizens cannot find work that pays as well as their former jobs.
The real injustice is the lack of funding for the hearings in immigration courts. Justice delayed is justice denied. It is one thing to state that people must obey the law but it is equally important to understand that if the law, no matter how well-intensioned you may believe it to be, is administered unjustly it becomes an unjust law. Many immigrants have contributed too much to America to be so disrespected and to create a policy that is based on the assumption that they are criminals is immoral and against all that this nation stands for.
17
Stop pretending religion provides moral and ethical absolutes. Just because absolutism is a tenant of faith, it doesn’t mean it actually exists. Religious dogma is not an argument, evidence or a plan.
12
"No charges have been filed against the owners of the Midwest Precast Concrete plant in Mount Pleasant that was raided."
So...it's legal to hire undocumented workers, but it's illegal to be a hired undocumented worker?"
Or are we just enforcing certain laws and not others?
332
Republicans want it both ways.They refuse to enforce Tax & payroll reporting .They help destroy Social Security by letting employers get away w none payment of SS & state Labor laws.
This has to be seen for what it is.They aim to destroy all labor protections & return us to a time when employers paid piecemeal for what THEY FELT was the least they could pay.
5
All an employer is required to do under the law is look at a Social Security card and get a completed I-9 from a prospective employee. The worker presents a forged Social Security card as genuine looking as yours and commits perjury to complete the I-9.
Employers hire illegal workers every day without breaking any laws, without being prosecutable.
So, yes "it's legal to hire undocumented workers, but it's illegal to be a hired undocumented worker."
We need mandatory eVerify with workplace audits.
7
Just like how Evangelicals will selectively choose Bible passages that suit their needs
The easiest thing in the world to do is to demonize undocumented immigrants. Heaven forbid that we put employers on the spot.
So, a concrete plant gets raided by ICE. I'm sure it's a physically demanding job that's probably dangerous and bad for one's health if he works there any length of time. I just can't get excited by people who get all in a huff about law breaking and how these hard-working people are criminals.
It's a universal truth that the further down on the food chain you are, the more your fellow citizens, who are a step or two above, feel entitled to kick you while you're down. Some people need to spend a little more time reading the New Testament and applying the teachings to their everyday lives.
45
The good news in this is that there are so many decent and generous people in Mount Pleasant that they raised $80,000 to support the "strangers" in their midst.
44
How much did they raise before this for Americans jailed for inability to pay fines or child support?? OR to provide homes for Americans that were evicted because they dont pay enough??
1
There is a reason why so few employers are charged. Under current Federal law, all an employer is required to do is look at a Social Security card and get a completed I-9 form from a prospective employee. Illegal workers produce forged Social Security cards that look as genuine as yours and they cheerfully commit perjury to fill out their I-9. Employers hire illegal workers every day without breaking any laws.
Current law is inadequate. We need mandatory eVerify, with workplace audits. So far, the only states that have moved in this direction are Red.
https://www.lawlogix.com/e-verify-map/
So far, only the GOP is pushing this in the House or Senate.
12
Its really easy for an employer to check on a eorker. All they have to do is contact the Social Security Administration with a list of SSNs and ask if they are legal numbers. But since those employers can't get legal Americans to take the jobs, they have the choice of turning a blind eye to their illegal workers of go out of business.
5
Kurfco,
I agree that the Federal law shields employers, and burdens the workers. This is oligarchy at its best, protecting the rich and attacking the poor.
The bigger question, to me, is economic. Why are there jobs like this that go unfilled by American workers? Is it because we'd rather sit on our couches and collect Social Security Disability payments (a huge percentage obtained under false pretenses in violation of Federal law), than work?
If there truly is a job being taken by an undocumented worker, I could support enforcement action.
This incident, however, just feels unnecessarily punitive to me, and a waste of resources.
6
Or at least make use of E-verify the only defense against criminal charges for hiring illegal aliens.
6
I guess our country has devolved into a nation of warring religious beliefs. So much for the Constitution; bring on the Bible and welcome to the The Theocracy States of America.
The last I checked, the Constitution and our institutions of justice still governed our lives; not the Bible and its competing passages.
Please, let's all uphold the First Amendment's Separation Clause and forget this other non-constitutional nonsense when it comes to our governance.
79
What’s the difference between laws based on Sharia law and the religious justification for Christian’s to make law based on different interpretations of the Bible. The wall between church and state protects us from extreme views we possess.
194
I agree with you on the importance of dividing church and state and the sentiment of Sharia law and Christian Fundamentalism. However, it is a false equivalency and morally relativistic to claim Christian Fundamentalism and Sharia law are equivalently bad. Arab nations are significantly more sexist, unstable, and racist then even the most rural Alabama counties.
I do not believe Trump or the Republicans are truly serious about immigration. They are interested in illusion and nothing more. If they were truly serious they have the votes to make E verify mandatory. That would be the end of illegal immigration. Throw a few business owners in jail, and like magic, no more illegal immigration.
118
So far, the only votes for making eVerify mandatory are Republican ones. Deep Blue California passed a law that prohibits any municipality in the state making the use of eVerify mandatory.
6
I have a business in "Deep Blue California" and have tried to use eVerify with new hires. It doesn't work.The Republicans have cut the funding of the Social Security Administration so deeply over the years that they can't operate the system effectively.Like all things Republican, they get the publicity while at the same time undermining the very systems they promote.I'll wager that most of the commentators yammering about eVerify have never used it and probably don't even own businesses But they do watch Fox.
I was raised a Christian and left the church as the evangelicals started taking over.I regard them as a cult which interprets the words of Christ to further their own prejudices.I know this is a broad statement, but I don't think they are true Christians.This immigration debate may have the effect of returning the church to the basic teachings of Jesus.Hypocrisy has a history of changing the church and the young evangelicals I know are beginning to see the light.
4
I'm not sure that Mount Pleasant, or Iowa, is a good representation of what the problem is.
There is overwhelming pressure on the southern border from literally thousands of people from Central America and elsewhere who are fleeing economic, social and political repression. It is really hard not to feel sorry for them. But if you are going to basically admit them with minimal vetting and no numerical quotas, which is what many Progressives are essentially proposing, you are going to unleash vast social problems and also admit a host of undesirables. I lived in Miami in the wake of Mariel, which was unrestrained immigration. I know first hand what that was like.
I fault Trump for his rhetoric, which is nasty, but not for enforcing the law. We all know that the current laws are badly in need of changing, that the border is porous and that the entire system is broken. I hope Trump is doing this to force the issue on Congress, which as another commenter said, has done nothing because it is a great wedge issue for partisans of both parties.
Democrats need to be very careful in how they treat this issue. Immigration is the one issue that can really up Republican turnout in November. Abolishing Ice and Open Borders may play well with the far left, but it scares the heck out of ordinary folks. The Supreme Court opening is already reminding Republicans of why Senate control is so important to them. That, along with immigration, could make a huge difference in November.
37
Ralph, I agree with you that immigration laws need much stricter enforcement, and I'm grudgingly accepting that Trump is one of the first presidents to actually do something about it. However, per your point that Iowa is "not a good representation of the problem"--no. Iowa is a perfect example. I've spent a lot of time in that state, and most Americans have no idea of the size and scale of the factory hog farms that exist. Those factories and the IBP meatpacking plants need a steady supply of cheap labor for the model to work, and Iowans have looked the other way on illegal immigration and abusive work practices for decades. See the Postville scandal or many others for reference. To break this cycle, we can, as other comments here mention, push for our government to crack down on employers who hire illegals. But that isn't likely. The best thing we can do is buy local meats. No more Hormel, Oscar Meyer, or IBP meats. Those are factory-farmed meats that are packed mostly by illegal immigrants. I don't
think I'm going out on a limb saying that, and it's the reason I've given my money to local butchers as often as possible.
4
If only trump would 'enforce the law' when it comes to corruption, profiteering and perjury when it comes to those in his administration. You folks love the whole 'shake it up' attitude of this president, but he's STILL not taking action to hold employers accountable. They hire whoever will make them the most profit. Why no 'rule of law' for them? Hypocrites, again. Rule of law only applies for you when it's them illegals. FOX is on 24/7 in these homes, but that doesn't excuse you from being intelligent citizens.
4
It would be helpful if your coverage could include information on actions, if any, the government will take to hold the plant owners accountable. Until businesses are held accountable they will not pressure politicians for truly comprehensive immigration reform.
62
One can find justification for almost anything in the muddle of the Bible, but in the end it is nothing but a big book of mythology and superstition.
67
I always hear how the law is the law and these people broke the law. OK however why are the people who hire them not put in jail too? Is paying off the books not law breaking, is not paying payroll taxes not breaking the law? The trumpsters hate the immigrants so but never mention the people who are really takeing their job, the Americans that hire them.
135
Why aren't the businesses that hire the undocumented workers shut down? Why do they get a pass? Seems to me that if you find undocumented workers in a plant or factory, you have proof that they were hired illegally so the plant or factory should be shut down. Too logical? Probably.
177
And under the Session's DOJ policy of zero tolerance, those business owners could have all their assets seized like what happens with other crimes.
And if the "three strikes" policy is still in play, well that would put many business owners who've been breaking the law away for long, long time.
23
I think there's missing context here and in every story about "why are evangelicals so anti-Jesus?" which also speaks to our larger national crisis of leadership. Mainline protestant and catholic churches are part of a large structure, like a franchise business. There is a chain of command and company policy. If you alienate your congregation you won't necessarily lose your job. You'll just get transferred (this is good and bad, right?) Evangelicals however are like independent businesses. They report to no one but their customers. If you alienate your congregation you're out of work in your chosen profession.
Evangelical pastors aren't so much leading congregations as serving congregations that are already led by Rush Limbaugh, Fox News and all the conservative forces that have, shall we say, "adaptable morality." It speaks to what all of us, especially our politicians, need to start asking: What are you willing to risk to be a true leader?
150
So called evangelicals, that ghastly gaggle of Elmer Gantry wannabes who get far more media attention than they deserve, aren't so much "anti-Jesus," but rather are Calvinist doctrine's obedient servants.
Calvinism's main tenet holds that all mankind was born in depraved sin, and that God chooses whom to save, regardless of good deeds or any other reason. It's this random choice on God's part that locks Calvinist faithful in a thorny, implacable existential dilemma: How does one know God has chosen him/her for salvation?
The solution Calvinists contrived is neither novel nor unexpected. It didn't take peddlers of Calvinist doctrine long to find gilt-edged proof of being chosen in the acquisition of great wealth coupled with iron-clad observance of God's commandments, as interpreted by incontrovertible doctrinal authorities.
That's why today's post-modern Elmer Gantrys build such garish, overblown ecclesiastical monuments to proclaim having been chosen for salvation. Of course, they look down in contempt and scorn at those whom God has "lawfully" condemned to eternal damnation.
The Brit economist R.H. Tawney examined in great detail Calvinism's economic aspects in his renowned, monumental study, "Religion and the rise of capitalism."
1
JC,
I don't think your explanation holds water. Baptists form the bulk of Evangelical Christians, and the Southern Baptist Convention is the largest non-Catholic religious denomination in the entire United States.
I too, as a follower of Jesus, wonder the same thing about our so called evangelical christian leaders. The sound like they stand against almost everything Jesus preached. The sound like the hypocrite pharisees that Jesus rightfully called out.
Jesus greatest commandment to us was to love one another as our father loved us. It seems like these evangelicals should remember that.
1
The problem is that (with the exception of separating children from their parents) everyone is right: We need compassion toward individuals who are doing nothing more than trying to have decent lives (or maybe be able to stay alive at all), and we need to follow laws regarding immigration or it will really get out of control.
It becomes even more complex, though, because if we did what each "side" is right about it would end up being wrong. Do we really not want to rescue people from war-ravaged countries who need asylum here? Do we really want an almost open border policy that would result in millions of people creating almost unimaginable strains to our country?
In short, at least in terms of what I have seen, no one has articulated a policy that is, in totality, right. Nothing has been proposed where I can say: "yeah! Let's do that!" Instead, as we have with most things in our country, we just have the situation of which side you are on. And that means for Trump or against Trump.
I wonder if the best solution was the non-solution of Obama's: just sort of limp along, not paying too much attention to it, being strict on some things, letting some things go. It was a policy that if you looked to closely at it would have something that would make everybody mad. So, just don't look too closely.
But now that genie is out of the bottle. We are looking at it too closely. But the genie has no solution.
16
Sounds like this "problem" existed before the ICE raid. Were the town's people okay with the "situation" when it wasn't an "issue"? Was anyone (like King) complaining to the the cement plant for their hiring the immigrants? Were the Evangelical church ministers calling the owners of the cement plant to lobby for jobs of their white church members?
Sounds like the area has need for workers that aren't being filled by the local white population. With unemployment at 2.9% sounds like there is ample opportunities for King and other locals who feel disenfranchised.
They should be reminded that Congress (divided as it was) in 2013 wrote and passed (in the Senate) the Comprehensive Immigration Reform bill S.744 that addressed all immigration issues. It was a bipartisan bill written by the Gang of Eight with Republican Senators Rubio, Graham, Flake, and McCain joining with four democrats to hammer out the bill. But a Tea Party threat in the House kept Speaker Beohner from allowing it to come to the floor for a vote. If it had come to a vote, there were more than enough "yes" votes for it to have passed.
It would have been signed into law in 2014 and we'd be four years into healing this divisive issue instead of having it continue tearing apart the very fabric of our American culture.
115
King disenfranchised himself with a felony drug conviction.
He has taught his daughter well in the art of finger pointing.
As others have pointed out, the business owners aren’t being charged. They are complicit in hiring undocumented workers and if this Administration really wanted to stop this they could do so easily by fining these businesses.
165
As others have pointed out, the 'undocumented' are generally 'fake documented'... they've stolen others' identities and are able to provide paperwork to the hiring authorities. Until eVerify is law, this will keep happening.
1
I agree they should be fined and likely will be eventually, but the statutory fines are simply too low to be much of a deterrent. Congress needs to pass some fines with teeth and jail time for the bigger violators were it is a systemic practice.
3
Is this how to make America great again?
30
I think we need to stop considering Evangelicals a religious group as much as a political one. They will quote you chapter and verse out of the Bible, but seemingly only when useful to advance a position. Particularly if you look at abortion, they seemingly want to imprint their beliefs on an entire nation. The mega-churches with their charismatic leaders are run cults with each Pastor acting as the absolute leader and interpreter of dogma. The structure of Evangelical churches gives power to individuals as opposed to Mainstream religions like the Catholic Church that have the Pope as leader. When was the last time you heard of a Presbyterian Minister asking his congregation for money to buy a new jet, car or house? Evangelicals act like political groups when they attempt to change civil laws. If they are opposed to abortion, it isn't enough that they won't have one themselves, they want to make sure that no woman of any faith is able to have one by changing civil laws. As shown in the article, Evangelicals now cherry pick the Bible to "justify" the awful treatment of undocumented. So an undocumented person who may have been threatened with death by a gang and fled for his life is now chided by an Evangelical for "breaking the law" by a few select passages from the Bible. Evangelicals have weaponized the Bible to serve their own personal agenda, not to follow in Jesus's footsteps
580
Just wow, and you don't think the Catholic Church is political?
Love the current Pope Francis, but the Catholic Church probably invented politics and greed.
Seem to recall slave owners doing exactly the same thing.
Nothing different since The Crusades.
Every article says the same thing "no charges have been filed against the owners." This is all the proof necessary that these raids are about racism and intimidation of workers in general. When hiring undocumented workers results in serious fines and prison terms, then we can talk about being "a nation of laws."
388
It depends on whether the illegals used forged documents and stolen SS numbers. I'm all for serious fines or jail time for employers who hire illegals.
1
"Chris Calabrese of the American Civil Liberties Union opposes E-Verify, citing concerns that it could expand into an onerous national ID system: 'Employers are not police officers, except in this one context where we suddenly want them to be law enforcement agents who are going to police their workforce.'[92] citation on E-Verify from Wikipedia.
Some states require the use of E-Verify to screen private employer applicants, some do not. Some exempt business with fewer than 50 employees, some fewer than 15...
Surely you didn't think the republicans would punish the business owners who are the ones actually in control, did you?
3
“I feel bad for the families that are going to be torn apart by this but it’s hard for me to sit here and act like it isn’t the fault of the people who brought them across the border.”
The people who "brought them across the border" are the people who hired them, which is also illegal, yet they were not arrested, leaving them free to hire more "illegals", which are apparently necessary for some companies in that town to stay in business. Does no one see the insanity in this?
416
There are many of us on both sides that would like to see business owners who employ illegals perp walked as well.
4
This has been going on for years in California. In the Central Valley, the owners are Republicans. Their cost model assumes undocumented workers. When the Republicans anywhere else complain about immigration, the owners don't say anything publicly but fight it behind the scenes.
And then the legislature passes crazy laws at the urging of the growers. Years ago, they passed a law eliminating the requirement to have portable toilets in the fields. It was an unnecessary cost, right? But if you have to go to the bathroom while in the fields, what are you supposed to do? Obviously, not the owners' concern. Crazy.
Throughout the scriptures there is no mention of vetting immigrants, taxes that are incurred by the influx of immigrants, or for that matter any adversity by the acceptance of immigrants.The churches that make decisions by the blind obedience of the scriptures is why we have the separation of Church & State .Our fore fathers were critical of a State religion, & warned against it.
51
The Presbyterian Church pastor in this story is an example of a clergy leader working hard at being faithful to the key themes of the Gospel. There is plenty of news about the foibles, mistakes and lack of integrity of clergypersons. However, in towns across the United States there are many more clergy steadfast to their ordination vows, seeking to shape communities that form people into living lives consistent with their highest religious claims and commitments. Religious life in the United States may be on the decline according to social science data. Yet, the exceptions to this data are still many. This well written news story tells of a community wrestling with the demands of the way of life Jesus of Nazareth proclaimed. I'm grateful for Rev. Hegar who is practicing (and modeling for others) pastoral imagination in these complex and often inhumnae times. Faith, religion, scripture are all potentially contradicatory and irrational until someone chooses a life-giving interpretation and then lives it clearly and humbly.
96
I always wonder if someone who professes to live by the Golden rule really understand it. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. To fully understand that one must examine how they wish to be treated. Does the examiner, really want to be given exemptions to the laws of the land to which they wish to enter and live? That is one of the things that happens when laws are ignored. Those seeking asylum can go to US Offices in their own land and apply for such a status. When they chose to bypass that portal, they chose to break our laws. Is that the standard one wishes to apply to oneself? If not, how can they chose to ignore it when applying the Golden rule which clearly ask of us to apply the same standard as we would to ourselves. The too easy answer often ignores the hard part of looking inward before deciding how to respond. That is easy, glib and often contrary to how most people lead their own lives within the laws of the land in which they live. It is not the question of whether those in other lands have the opportunity they wish to have and might have here. Nor is it that the conditions of people in other lands are not as good as those here. Those also need to be addressed and dealt with, but not to become substitutes for how we honor our own laws in this land.
1
Had I received very real death threats from drug gangs, I would pray that I would be granted asylum regardless of how I entered the country. Under Trump, border agents are reportedly refusing entry to persons without a visa, even if they are seeking asylum. US embassies in other countries have wide discretion on whether they grant visas to asylum seekers. Can you doubt that under Trump, that discretion is exercised to refuse visas? Since Trump's latest executive order, the zero tolerance rule remains in place and parents whose children have already been taken are being subjected to the onerous and lengthy "vetting" required of US sponsors. In other words, his agents are still making it as difficult as possible to reunite families that have been separated.
1
Then you have the evangelical retail sales people.
They're not leaders. They simply fill their customer's orders every Sunday morning.
All those evangelicals saying “the law is the law” are pushing hard for the arrest of the owners of this factory, right? Right?
733
Nothing happened to the owners of the garden center in Ohio after ICE arrested 150 immigrants who worked there. There is the law, and there is another law.
5
And besides, if the law in question isn’t useful, change it.
1
I would be fine with that - deport all illegal aliens and give employers 30-days notice to clean up their pool of employees.
'We elected our leaders and God allowed it.'
One wonders whether the 'Christian' quoted here is in the least bit aware how that pernicious idea can and often has been used to motivate and condone the most vile atrocities committed by and upon humankind.
519
Folks fall in two camps; "...God allowed it." or "The Devil made me do it." Since those two supernatural entities usually don't answer us directly then it hard to refute those two assertions with veracity.
15
God also allowed all these immigrants to come into our country. Doesn't that mean God wants us to take care of them?
11
I had the same response. God “allowed” the Holocaust and Stalin.
2
This just proves that you can take any religious writing and make it support any side you want.
If scripture that is that fungible, then there really is no way to defend it morally. That is true of all religions.
Our founding fathers understood this after seeing a century or so of confessional wars over what are minor differences in belief (is it belief or good works, you choose!). This is why the constitution has separation of church and state.
Evangelical Christians are like their fundamentalist Muslim or Hindu brethren. They want the state and the religion to be the same. They want to cram their absurdist view of scripture and their take on their given prophet's world view.
This is also the Republican party.
394
Mike said:
"This just proves that you can take any religious writing and make it support any side you want."
I beg to differ. What the dueling quotations in this story "prove" is that some people will attempt to cite scripture to defend just about any position you like. Regularly enough, as is the case here, one side is clearly abusing the meaning of scripture.
The written word (written by anyone) can easily be abused by grabbing verbatim quotes out of context. But, since the meaning of any writing means the meaning intended by the author, ignoring context to impose a foreign meaning on anyone's written word, is an abuse of the human mind, human logic, human intelligence.
And that applies to scripture, the sacred writings of nay faith group, as well as any other writing.
But there is a worse abuse of human intelligence in this article--the notion that because something is the law, it is inherently moral. Nonsense.
Laws can be just or unjust. The entire discussion about immigration is ultimately about what the law ought to be. And how existing law ought to be humanely applied.
When was the last time someone went to jail for jaywalking? That is a misdemeanor, exactly like crossing the boarder illegally. Discretion is called for both misdemeanors.
Brilliant comment!!
The true underlying problem is that our immigration system legal or otherwise is broken. Until we fix that the same problem will occur year after year. Immigration is a great political wedge issue to turn out the base for both parties. Once the issue of immigration is dealt with then it is no longer a hot button issue in our country. Like many others have mentioned we all are descendants of immigrants that came from other countries that now pretend that we 'own' this country. The previous generations of European immigrants decimated the local native population with disease, warfare, and general mayhem to make this country theirs. Every generation of immigrant went on to discriminate against the generation that came after them. A never ending loop. Hopefully we can find a tenable solution where we can integrate those whom are seeking asylum and the promise of the American Dream. Finally, let's not demonize them as criminals and rapists because they have brown skin and speak a foreign language.
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There can be no "solution" for the immigration issue because it is not a "problem" in the usual sense. Those who raise it are not looking to fix something; they merely want convenient political scapegoats who cannot fight back.
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Well ,now they're on the books ,like the rest of us.Then five had criminal records ,and like the rest of us must be held responsible . They want to be here ,need to be legal, like the rest of us.
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The employer is responsible for hiring people without first verifying that those people are legally permitted to work in their business. Why aren’t you holding them responsible for their violation of federal laws?
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The current crisis is but a symptom of humanity’s universal search for a home. God, in the Nativity narrative, accompanies homeless humans. The U.S. must do better in acknowledging, not denying, this perils involved in this quest.
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Somehow it doesn’t dawn on any of them that the bible is chocked filled with contradictions, and therefore it shouldn’t be used as a guideline for their lives. For example, the 10 Commandments are laid out in Exodus 20, and then without transition, Exodus 21 explains in detail how you should treat and punish your slaves. It’s enough to give you whiplash.
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Immigration law needs to be revisited. It's very difficult to gain entry legally into the US - why are we not making it possible for these people - apparently decent, hardworking people - to enter and work in the US legally? We NEED them. It is clear that the idea that immigrants are taking jobs from "Americans" is simply not true. They are doing jobs no one else will do. Jobs that need to be done. 2.9% jobless rate? Amazing. I do feel for the janitor who works two jobs & lives paycheck to paycheck, but this isn't an immigration problem. This is a US problem - lack of universal health care for a start.
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We don't need the entire world living inside our borders. We should take a limited number and only those that can be employed and support themselves.
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@Independent. The people who were arrested in the raid had jobs and were supporting themselves. Seems to me they meet your criteria for "living inside our borders."
“The law is the law”. Especially when it serves your own tribal Republican needs.
If, on the other hand, you disagree with the law, then it’s a bad Democrat law, and you must get a new, better law.
I’m an atheist. I don’t have a book that I go to to figure out what’s right. I value human beings. I don’t care where they come from, or how they arrived at my doorstep, or the color of their skin, or any of the external conditions human beings are born into. Human beings must always be treated with kindness and humanity, because it is our actions that prove to ourselves the content of our characters, and (in the end) whether we have lived a righteous life.
I have never been able to figure out why so many “people of faith” are confused about this.
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Because faith is an efficient justification for cruelty, selfishness and greed against anybody who is not from your religious tribe. Remember, all it takes is a couple of Hail Marys and you are absolved.
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"Do unto others..." was never meant to perpetuate criminal activity.
By employing illegal immigrants, the company pushed them into non-compliance - how is that right?
How about "render unto Ceasar..." in the way of taxes, like the rest of us?
Then, the popular WWJD - would Jesus have fled his homeland or determined how to turn around the situation? I say stay and use the power of numbers to stand up to the gangs and the rotten government.
Claiming justification using the Bible is not going to convince so many people - it hasn't up to now which is fine with me, I have to obey the laws in my country regardless of what verse I cite.
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I like how you focus on the actions of others, and not what Jesus asks of you.
Otherwise, you might have to change, and that's scary, right?
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@Margo: Ah, you think Jesus would be telling people to submit themselves to slaughter rather than flee (as his own parents did to escape Herod).
I say "submit to slaughter" because Jesus would certainly not be telling people to take up arms and that's what it would take to "stand up" to a drug cartel. Jesus wouldn't even let his own apostles defend him when soldiers arrived to crucify him (rebuking the one who drew a sword)! Furthermore, I defy you to find a single biblical instance of a follower of Jesus fighting to save their life. Your concept of "WWJD" would be a complete departure from every instance of the behavior of Jesus or any of his disciples.
Just how many times in the bible would you say a God-fearing people were forced to flee rather than face persecution? In fact, is that not the prevailing origin story of the United States? Maybe you feel the Pilgrims should have just sought to overthrow the British crown rather than set sail. And don't forget... they were trespassers too, though we don't like to admit it. The land they "settled" was occupied. I'm sure they get a real kick out of the immigration debates.
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"Render until Caesar" refers clearly to taxes - which Republicans and evangelicals are against.
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The idea that the undocumented are "breaking the law" makes me question the spirit, intent and enforcement of such laws. We had slavery in this country to provide the much needed manual labor. Africans were certainly not held as equals to their white overseers. Slavery was ended, but the need for cheap labor remained. Keeping the former slaves "in their place" was effectively dealt with the Jim Crow Laws. We may have not had explicit Jim Crow laws in the North, but we found other more subtle ways to subjugate Blacks. Now we use the same methodology to keep an almost "legislative slavery" going. We selectively enforce law and policy to ensure millions of underpaid, overworked people stay "in their place" The employer is never punished, only the worker. Laws are only enforced on the worker never the employer. On the rare occasions the employer is punished - it's typically a small administrative fine. This is modern slavery. A privileged society exploiting yet another group of people to maintain their way of life.
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I understand some of these people crossed the border illegally and that may be a crime but it is a minor infraction at best. The response from the Trump administration has been draconian and totally unwarranted. He has turned America into a police state that racially profiles people simply to score brownie points with his base of xenophobic bigots. Anyone who supports these gestapo tactics by ICE is being totally disingenuous if they say it's because of law and order. If you really cared about law and order you would be calling for Trump's impeachment right now. This is all about plain old fashioned racist bigoted xenophobia. I realize you may have been called that so many times by now that you are numb to it but it still rings true!
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President Obama arrested, deported millions and yet, no call for impeachment. Please stop expecting government employees to ignore the law. We have all been waiting for immigration reform for years. Demand that your representatives take a stand, but let's be fair, President Trump didn't create this mess.
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I can tell from your comment that it is impossible for you to comprehend this, but people can simultaneously think Trump should be impeached and indicted and tried for treason and money laundering and any number of crimes he has racked up, and be appalled at ripping breastfeeding babies from their mothers and caging children ripped from their parents, and believe our country's immigration laws should be enforced. And NO, this is not about racism or xenophobia unless one believes the laws should only be enforced against certain illegal immigrants and not others.
I am sure there are bigots and racists railing against illegal immigration, just as I am equally sure that there are bigots and racists and persons eager to take advantage of people's illegal status to mistreat them as employees who can't fight back railing against enforcing our immigration laws. But not everyone who has problems with people whose first act in this country is to wantonly disregard our laws and our procedures for immigrating legally, and feel for some reason that they are entitled to jump in front of every person who patiently followed our rules and waited in line, is a bigot. But by now you and those who think exactly like you are numb and blind to approaching this issue rationally -- one can only excuse you because Trump's outrageous racist statements and behavior, and that of those he surrounds himself with, has made having an intelligent conversation about this difficult issue impossible.
President Obama may have deported many people, but he didnt go after the low hanging fruit. He realized you had to have a reasonable balance in order to live within the reaources Congress allocated him. And yes, the current situation is new and different, due to the zero tolerence policy Trump implemented in April. Nothing changed in the immigration numbers that called for such a drastic change. Yes the laws need to be changed, but that isnt an excuse for the current situation. Fraud is also against the law, but you dont see Trump implementing a zero tolerence against fraud. If he did, half of his cabinet and family would be in jail.
When a secular law does not follow divine law we would be better without such a law. If it doesn't conform to what ALL the prophets have taught - at least be fair. It doesn't seem fair that there are those willing to work hard for low money just as my ancestors did when they landed in New York 100 years ago and couldn't speak much English either. There are companies, farms and factories who need them. It's not just to round them up and treat them as criminals because they don't have the right papers.
I mean if Americans don't want these jobs...right?
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Well, I don't know about you, but I picked cotton as a kid.
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In theocracies citzens are required to disregard secular law and follow blindly some interpretation of divine law. This country is not yet a theocracy and our Founding fathers would have abhorred making it so.
When your ancestors landed in New York 100 years ago they were not violating US law, so there is no comparison.
Maybe if these employers had to pay decent wages and benefits Americans would want these jobs. But we will never know because they can exploit illegal immigrants until the cows come home without consequence by basically blackmailing them. I don't agree that it is fine to exploit people like that.
If it is truly impossible to hire anyone but immigrants for these jobs, we need to set up a proper work visa program, so people can return to their families back home without problems getting back and forth over borders or overseas.
If I could start a landscaping business here in Seattle without a business license, insurance on my truck, or paying taxes, I would. But if I get caught doing that, I can go to prison. The illegal just gets deported and often times returns again. And here in Seattle, they can get assistance for being poor. Its a sanctuary city and no one is allowed to ask if they are legal or documented workers.
You should see how much construction is going on in this city with Mexican labor. And the world's richest people live here making money hand over fist off of all of this cheap, imported labor.
People here complain that Microsoft intentionally hires Indians and Pakistanis using H-2 visas to get around the normal laws for you and I.
We are not talking about jobs in the back of some kitchen, we are talking skilled jobs that pay quite nicely...if you can get them.
"The law is the law" is a cudgel that has been used indiscriminately for far too long. Was it not Jesus himself who said "he who is without sin cast the first stone"? Even the law itself exist in the pursuit of justice and justice recognizes that punishment shall fit the crime. Immigration violations as codified in law are civil violations, on par with tax evasion or traffic violations. Why are we demonizing those who violate immigration statutes as if they committed first-degree murder? Does the principle of proportionality not hold even under law? Many Christians fail to remember that early Christian martyrs themselves were victims of the law. Yet, we celebrate them for their defiance of the law. Is the "law" only the "law" when Caesar is your friend?
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I agree. For instance, it was once illegal for blacks and whites to get married. It was once illegal for women to vote. Segregation was once legal. Just because something is "legal" doesn't make it right. At some point the citizenry has to rise up and demand more rational laws. As has been pointed out, over 70% of Americans recently polled said they thought immigrants were good for American. Instead of vilifying these people, why aren't our elected representatives able to come up with some common sense solutions to this problem. We should take every opportunity to ask them.
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When 75% of Americans don’t agree with the law and it’s still the law, then we have to ask if this is a democratic republic or something quite different.
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I would love for you to champion the thousands of fellow dairy farmers who have lost everything and are currently on suicide watch. This would be a good forum to raise awareness about THEIR children, their pain, how we can possibly address their needs? Of course, it is easier to feel sorry for a stranger, because sometimes our issues seem too complicated. I put in a plea for those kids, OUR kids earlier today. THEY need more champions and they should be our first responsibility.
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So in what jail is the owner of the concrete plant for hiring "illegals?"
I'm so sick and tired of listening to people going on and on about "the rule of law" and enforcing the immigration policies without being equally nasty about those who employ improperly documented workers.
If a few thousand business owners were thrown in prison for violating the law, illegal immigration would screech to a halt. Attack the demand side of the equation.
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"illegal immigration would screech to a halt."
Never ever happened before, learn some history please.
They are lawbreakers??? What about the plant owners who hired them? You don't think they know these people are illegals? They hire precisely because they're illegals!!! Fines & jail time for the employers, and this problem will disappear. It really is that simple.
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Yes! I've been saying this for years. Currently, businesses only face relatively small fines they can write off as business expenses. What is needed is those in charge, the owners, boards, hiring managers, and upper management, ALL need to face penalties they personally feel in order for them to stop hiring illegals. No jobs, only asylum seekers will come, and those here will self-deport. When business people face large personal fines and mandatory long jail sentences per person, only then will we see an end to illegal workers. As long as they know someone will hire them, they will come.
The problem with this approach is all laws are made and enforced to benefit corporations. So since they benefit from the current situation, they will not want lawmakers to make changes. And the lawmakers will not do anything to hurt their donors.
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It will not disappear. The jobs will disappear. The companies close, and the economy of the towns suffer. It's happened in Iowa already.
We clearly have room for these people who work hard - they've been here for years. Why are we denying them the opportunity? Why don't we make our immigration laws work so that they can come here and be successful? We are all children of immigrants.
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So, I'm sure that the evangelicals who are fine with immigrants being jailed because "they're breaking the law" are also OK with evangelical Christians being imprisoned in China because they're breaking Chinese law. Right? Right?
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They only care about the laws that support their own beliefs. You can find a bible passage to support almost anything.
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