Individuals are part of the "of the people, by the people...". If each of us cannot speak to the gov't employees and by extension the our employees to express dissatisfaction with their job performance, then who is responsible.
Voting is only one part of the participation required in a democracy. In fact, it is the shirking of civic engagement that has lead to today's situation. Maxine Waters was telling people to go out there to tell the Trump Administration that they are doing a terrible job. It is our constitutional right.
So what if Trump feeds off the opposition. He will make up controversies even if no one does anything. Perhaps, he will fill himself so full that he overreaches and, in doing so, appears so ridiculous that even his base turns away in disgust.
7
Sanders lives her life and goes about her work disconnected from the ramifications of her daily lies and misconduct. She is in a bubble, a controlled environment surrounded by yes people and enablers. Her arrogance, falsehoods, game playing, are so offensive as to render her presence intolerable. And that goes for the rest of Trumps enablers. I am with Maxine Waters on this: confront their sorry behinds at every turn. Don't lay a hand on them, don't shout at them, but be present so that they KNOW that Americans reject them and all that they stand for. Let them know that we do not intend to allow them to walk away free of the stain of their actions absent an appropriate, lawful, push back.
6
When one side is hits below the belt and gouges at eyes, you recommend that the other side play by the Marquess of Queensberry Rules?
Have you not listened to Benedict Donald's campaign speeches, or read his demented Tweets?
Civility is a virtue, and he and his Party do not have any.
10
We make our stands where we find ourselves. Not all of us live in Border states where we can protest these shameful government actions in person. We act where we are, whether it is standing up for an immigrant or Muslim being harassed on a train (NYC, Portland OR), or in our workplaces, we stand where the injustices are, in our own communities. Two men died on a Portland train defending two Muslim girls from a vicious harasser, that's putting your money where your mouth is.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/27/us/portland-train-attack-muslim-rant....
4
SCOTUS swing vote Justice Kennedy is retiring so Donnie gets ANOTHER pick. Mitch McConnell has already said that he will hurry any pick through.
Trump just went on and on about how he couldn’t find 5,000 judges for immigration courts as they would all be corrupt! THEN he said-“Where are they going to find them? In barber shops?”
To heck with civility!
Heed what Enjolrus sang in Les Miz!
The time is here!
Let us welcome it gladly with courage and cheer
Let us take to the streets with no doubt in our hearts
But a jubilant shout
They will come one and all
They will come when we call!
No more backing down.
Remember, remember the SIXTH of November!
(apologies to Guy Fawkes as we blow up THIS parliament!)
5
Ms. Sanders has a tough job with the problems that accompany a highly visible position for a man who believes he's the new Messiah. When she briefs the press she's literally on a world stage. I"m sure she's not thrilled when she has to reverse the administration's position from one day to the next and then reverse it again. Let's review the Stormy Daniels payment, day after day, when questioned, she's advises the world that Trump knew nothing about the payment. Along comes Giuliani who takes it upon himself to advise the world that Trump was aware of the payment. Surely the $130,000 payment by Mr. Cohen was authorized by Trump. If this were to happen once or twice during the administration's four year reign, it might be understandable. In the Trump White House it's an everyday event. I believe that Ms. Sanders is a real warrior and deserves a medal for having to put up with the administration's infernal infighting, leaks, personnel changes and most importantly, the nut job sociopath in the oval office. When she's out in the public she should be left in peace as I'm sure on many days, it takes more juice than a Tesla, to recharge her batteries.
When the cruelty becomes overwhelming,
when the way that Democrats are locked out of any representation in this country through the Hastert Rule (named for a GOP pedophile) and McConnell Obstruction and are disenfranchised through malicious gerrymandering, voter suppression efforts, and now the Supreme Court giving Trump's bigotry full rein,
where religious freedom is only allowed for Christian bakers but not for Muslims,
where women are denied reproductive health care rights,
where minorities are denied equality, and
where atrocities like thousands of children kept in cages and scattered around the country are dinner jokes by Sessions,
what are the recourses for Democrats?
We will vote of course, but our voting rights are systematically being limited.
We protest, but the Trump administration singles out protesters for attacks that Trump himself encourages and that are brought to court such as the woman who actually dared to laugh out loud at Sessions.
Sanders constantly lies, insults and demeans reporters but she is paid by taxpayers.
Trump has been given dictator powers, children are being hurt, and American democracy has been handed over lock, stock and barrel to Putin, to dark money, and to zealots.
The GOP should be careful. It has gone too far away from democracy into the dark depths of fascism, bigotry and corruption, and gotten drunk on corrupt power.
The American Revolution and others were against tyranny.
2
Hmmm. Never thought I would agree with you.
Remember..."When they go low, we go high"
Liberalism has already lost in the USA.
Being polite losers will not help shift the Supreme Court back to any even keel any time this generation.
This is the nation where the highest court in the land upheld the right of retailers to refuse service to those they morally object to.
Huckabee Sanders has committed a sustained morally objectionable offense by covering for a blatantly bigoted administration.
Therefore retailers have the absolute right, as sanctioned by the Supreme Court, to refuse service to Huckabee Sanders, Kirstjen Nielsen (who blatantly lied on the record to cover for blatantly racist psychological tactics), or anyone else considered morally reprehensible.
Liberals can't lose much more than they have and will under the Gorsuch/Post-Kennedy SCOTUS.
They might as well dissent, refuse to be complicit in racism, as they try to rebuild their movement from the ground up.
6
Conservatives like Ross believe it is acceptable not to serve people on the basis of religious belief. So I guess if a fubdamentalist Christian werr to refuse to make a cake for a Bar mitzvah, because he believed people who refused to axceot Jesus were going to hell, or a Jew refused to make a communion cake for a Catholic because he thought it was idol worship, the world would be a better place because they were acting on their conscience. The Catholic church finally apologized for their role in centuries of antisemitism, and it is unacceptable to refer in polite company to Jews as Christ killers, but were still not there yet on homosexuals.
Minorities always need orotection and religious belief has been used to justify discrimination before. whats the difference this time?
2
Feel comfortable exercising their moral convictions in the way they run their business is exactly what the owner of the restaurant did, what the segregationists did, what florists and bakers do in refusing to serve gays, what pharmacists do in refusing to fill contraception prescriptions etc.
Douthat I do not feel comfortable with any of that. I do not care if the person refusing service in a business open to the public is progressive, racist, homophobic or misogynist. I think it is a wrong thing to do.
1
Garland Vs Goresuck
Kennedy and McConnell
and you are preaching civilization exclusively to non conservatives.
2
If Americans on the left want to protest effectively, target the sponsors on Fox News. Tell them that you won't patronize their businesses as long as they are on Fox, until Fox stops telling lies about Trump, Muller, Russia, Democrats, policy and the rest of it.
Watch Fox, and when it spins and lies, when Hannity and the rest distort - tell the sponsors specifically what they said and what the truth is.
Same with Breitbart, Limbaugh, Alex Jones and the rest. Tell the sponsors they are supporting lies and boycott their businesses. Most important: be able to back up your accusations with specifics.
2
Not only civil disobedience, but actual riots in the streets are not out of the question if this charade of an administration is not checked and balanced soon, say, early in November.
Mueller is expected to issue indictments of Americans before September. I hope that this summer brings about a long-overdue reckoning to America regarding our traitorous, supine, criminal Republican party. We need to get rid of them. They are a fast-moving, very aggressive form of cancer on our country, and if they are not held in check, better yet eliminated from any significant power soon, our country will be changed forever, and not for the better.
2
"That’s because Sanders, while no doubt a good mother and kind person in the private aspects of her life, occupies a job that is inseparable from the aspect of the Trump presidency that even people who agree with some of his policymaking should find deplorable — the communicative aspect, the rhetorical aspect, the aspect that deals with public truth and falsehood."
Frustration knows no bounds when day in day out we watch a grifter-in-chief thug his way across this hard won and once regal land.
Anyone who can come to terms with this serial sociopathic liar and incompetent empty suit has a lot to answer for.
3
I'm an LGBTQ person, and strongly anti-DT. I've had my share of anti-LGBTQ hatred, violence and discrimination thrown my way my entire life, including in public accommodations - as many other LGBTQ folks also have had.
Sarah Sanders, Kirstjen Nielsen, Mike Pence - and yes, even that Supremely slithering seat-stealer Mitch McConnell - have a right to eat in any restaurant they'd like, in peace and free from harassment, intimidation, or expulsion.
Even though they've each worked hard to destroy justice and equality for - literally - millions of people. Even though they're not at all committed to protecting *anyone else's* rights.
However, their right to public accommodations is no more or no less important than anyone else's.
I'm not some noble idealist. I'm a long-term strategist who sees little value in hatred and vitriol towards anyone, no matter the rationale.
We cannot "draw that line" to exclude anyone, as tempting as that may be to exact some perceived revenge.
Fight the entire DT tribe, absolutely - but not with restrictions on Constitutionally-protected rights.
We've now got way more crucial battles to pick - so that fascism does not overtake our nation.
6
Personally, I hope democrats keep pulling these stunts. It shows the moderates of the country, who really decide elections, how non-inclusive and immature and hysterically angry liberals are. These type of shenanigans may make you all feel better in the short term (short term gain) but really it only makes you look childish and helpless without a real political plan to present to the public as a reason to vote your side (long term pain). That blue wave y’all have been talking about? Disappearing.
5
Why does Ross Douthat find the Red Hen's actions more worrisome than the right-wing mob harassment that Sanders deliberately marshaled? Where is the condemnation of Sander's overt violation of ethics guidelines, namely 5 CFR 2635.702 (a), in which she used her White House credentials to publicly punish a private business? Her response to a mild slight was to play victim, but her true goal is to police any form of dissent or critique of the White House and Trump. That is the real issue at stake in this otherwise overblown incident.
1
"What this example implies for anti-Trump activists is not that they should abandon protest politics, but that they should do everything possible to keep those protests focused directly on the places where the administration’s policies look worst."
That would seem to apply to restaurants nation-wide, where many staff are undocumented immigrants or immigrants being subject to harassment by ICE; it also applies to the Red Hen, where a number of the staff are gay and expressed discomfort with erving a woman who supports and is the mouthpiece for this government's anti-gay virulence.
2
We fell for it. Do you really think it was an accident that two of Trump's minions ate in a Mexican restaurant when public sentiment was turning against the Trump administration over the separation of families at the border. Huckabee Sanders was counting on a similar reaction when she joined her friends late at the Red Hen. Now instead of talking about how abhorrent Trump's policy is with regards to illegal immigrants we're talking about how mean liberals are being to Trump's staff.
1
I think you should really open a brewpub and call it “My Sadly Hypothetical Brewpub “. And serve more than just IPAs.
I think you and many others backing the President underestimate the revulsion that we "liberals" feel every single day at absolutely every policy and person connected to Trump, as well as how we feel about the flagrant spinelessness of the Rs in Congress. The mid-terms will bring this into better focus for you.
5
As much as Trump’s vile and anti-liberal attack is coming right from the top, as if he was ordering his troops to follow the act, virtually all liberal ”resistance” activites are entirely grass-roots and coming from spontaneous acts of sending the simple message, enough is enough. Whether they will have effect is another matter but one thing for sure, they certainly will not hurt liberals. The notion that conservatives are circling their wagons each time is bogus. They have always been pathologically sel-victimizing and this doesn’t change anything. Natural liberal reactions to obvious excesses of the right are just that, natural. Toning down the reaction will only embold right wingers.
3
Mr Douthat is missing the point. Mrs. Huckabee Sanders was asked to leave because, in the opinion of the restaurant staff, she participates in the proliferation of lies that the administration puts out every day. You don't have to be a member of the Resistance to do such censoring, and no one would argue that this would mean Mr. Douthat should expect to be removed from a public business, unless he is employed by this administration
2
There is no parallel between the baker, asked to make a custom one-of-a-kind work of art celebrating a gay marriage, and a restaurant asked only to serve the customer the same food it serves others. The Red Hen should be sued into oblivion.
Indeed, Michelle Goldberg's column the other day lauding their action so angered me, it almost convinced this died-in-the-wool lefty to vote for Trump in 2020. I'm still thinking of doing so . . .
Keep it up, and you will have Trump for another four years. Me? I can always move back to my country of birth, Canada, after casting the deciding vote.
2
Ms. Wilkinson made her decision based on the majority wishes of her staff due to their religious and moral objections to the sinful speech and behavior of SHS. Her business appears to run more democratically than the US government right now. Let's stop hiding behind our parties and be held accountable for our individual actions, as SHS was. Ms. Wilkinson did not kick out other tables of Republicans.
1
If a cake-maker can lawfully & with wide public approval turn down a customer for not sharing his religious belief system then a meal-maker has the same right to turn out a customer for not sharing his/her political beliefs. Bravo to both for discriminating against their fellow citizens with the tacit approval of SCOTUS.
2
Let's remember why this ostracism is occurring: people feel helpless in the face of the cruel child separation policy decreed by trump. Now we know that many of these children are being "disappeared" and will never be reunited with their families. What recourse is there for the public to protest this astoundingly cruel and immoral action? I'm sorry, but the foremost proponents of trump and his policies, like Sarah Sanders, are probably going to continue to be publicly shunned in various ways.
1
I read some exchanges between President Nixon and Dan Rather. Although arch enemies, in public they managed the Herculean task of acting civil and decent. At his "retirement" Nixon reminded us not to hate others. Who knows if he meant it, but it but it shows how far we have fallen. Even lying used to be less tinged with malice.
1
The website Legal Match cites the Civil Rights Act of 1964 that it is illegal for a restaurant to refuse service based on race, color, religion, or national origin. Then it continues:
"There a number of legitimate reasons for a restaurant to refuse service, some of which include:
Patrons who are unreasonably rowdy or causing trouble
Patrons that may overfill capacity if let in
Patrons who come in just before closing time or when the kitchen is closed
Patrons accompanied by large groups of non-customers looking to sit in
Patrons lacking adequate hygiene (e.g. excess dirt, extreme body odor, etc.)
In most cases, refusal of service is warranted where a customer’s presence in the restaurant detracts from the safety, welfare, and well-being of other patrons and the restaurant itself."
Please explain, in light of the above, why this shameful treatment of Ms. Sanders can be justified.
If the owner of a bakery can refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding, calling it his artistic calling, upheld by the Supreme Court, then a restaurant owner can decide who gets to eat her artisan food. After all, isn't farm to table a form of artistic presentation? If the Supreme Court says it's okay then it must be okay to refuse service if against one's beliefs. She did it politely. It's her establishment. So all this fuss was already out there. Sarah Sanders has, by her continued endorsement for the incarceration of toddlers, squandered her right to be treated like a welcomed party. Someone has to take a stand against these people as long as it's not violent.
To yell Shame Shame at people such as Sanders and Nielsen and Miller is more than acceptable, it's demanded.
2
This was a beautifully expressed, timely balm. I think it is a shame that people seem to have read through it too quickly and missed the nuance and the sentiment. I read Douthat saying, "it is understandable and reasonable to bar Sanders from one's restaurant and, indeed, I would appreciate being able to do the same, myself. But in the end, this kind of protest is too easily labeled as petty bullying and it gives Trump supporters a red herring to focus on instead of protests that are harder to dismiss as uncivil or mean-spirited. Ultimately, our resistance depends upon changing the public narrative of who Trump is and what his actions mean. Changing that narrative requires changing people's minds." Douthat mentions that there might be some principle of civil behavior that makes us disinclined to boycott the Sanders' of this situation, but ultimately the more compelling reason to not do so comes from the fact that it is counterproductive. It is hard to be the bigger person, especially when the other guy seems to have no qualms about fighting dirty and sees no reason to extend similar care or even the veneer of caring to you. But the war is bigger than the battle. When the stakes are this high, maybe it is worth it for us all to sit back and think about what actions will advance our ultimate cause and what actions simply satisfy are current emotional state.
2
Mr. Douthat,
I don't buy it. The Red Hen caters to the general public. Sarah Sanders is part of that public. She was not being rude. She was not inappropriately dressed. There was no sign at the door that read: No Trump staffer, spin agent, or lackey will be served. Sanders had every right to expect respect and service. Not doing so put the Red Hen owner in the same class as those who failed to serve black men and women during the civil rights era. However, the owner's actions were not noble, just rude.
I do buy your argument that such public displays of protest that take place away from strategic and symbolic sites are detrimental to those who resist Trump and all the negatives he stands for. Better to protest at the immigrant internment camps (yes, that is how I view them), to march in front of the White House for gun control, to attend Congressional town hall meetings in support of the ACA, and above all to both vote and work to get out the vote for resistance candidates.
But after a hard day at our individual barricades, regardless of the political side one is on, let's all be civil to each otherl and be allowed the simple pleasure of eating in peace.
2
Everyone deserves access to the public market and public accommodations. If there is one thing we should learn from Jim Crow and "No Jews allowed" signs is that this sort of behavior will always result in an exclusion not of the mainstream but the marginal. The problem with Mr Douthat is that he has little empathy for the marginal, nor understanding of the history of exclusion.
If Sarah Sanders had been making a ruckus, obviously the restaurant owner should be able to throw her out. Further, there should be no protection from words, the restaurant owner should be able to address Ms Sanders about her job, and her political activity. But they should have to serve her, the same food as anyone else.
This is the difference between the Red Hen and the cast of Hamilton which handled Mike Pence with aplomb. Mr Pence got to see the play, and the cast got their say.
Like the Red Hen, the Baker in Colorado did not honor access to the market. And I doubt Mr Douthat wants a world where no one allows him to buy flour for his business or food for his family based on his stance. But here is the thing. He can put up signs, however despicable that says I hate gay people, he should not be able to exclude them in the way he should not be able to exclude others.
It isn't and shouldn't be about civility, it is about the nature of our civilization. It isn't about whether people like us on facebook, it is about whether everyone gets basic access to society.
1
Douthat's party, the Republicans, are the party that demanded the right to elevate sincerely held moral beliefs over the duties of a profession or the needs of patients or customers. What happened at the Red Hen was quite specifically NOT about being incivil or political. The owner of the Red Hen made that clear. It WAS about her having gay employees whose deeply held sincere belief in their own humanity and rights made it deeply repugnant to serve the needs of a person whose entire career and espoused beliefs and exercise of power included depriving them of their equal rights and status as equal in society. That's a moral belief worthy of Hobby Lobby. Maxine Waters may be pushing for incivility but the Red Hen? That's a deeply Conservative with a big C action and they should be proud that Hucka-Sanders was thrown out in such a Conservative action.
1
In the case of the wedding cake for a gay couple--where the proprietor did NOT show them the door, but instead explained what he would and would not do for them--it was supposed to be all about "public accommodations." Why does this not apply to the Red Hen/Sanders case as well? I'm not a lawyer, but couldn't Sanders sue? It probably wouldn't be wise politically, but the question is interesting.
Both Douthat, and Bruni have now discussed this as a question of strategy--not decency or morality (or public accommodations law).
Blue wave? Not if the Democrats keep shooting themselves in the foot like this. I suspect that as November approaches, the Left will get increasingly strident, and quite possibly violent. Which is not the way to win elections.
I applaud the owner of The Red Hen. But her actions are not what I hope happen often. Refusing Sarah Sanders and her party service sent a message that yes, we can be bullies too - if you push us hard enough. And this is what it feels like.
Ross is right. Shunning and shaming by Democrats/liberals might contribute to the victim mentality that Trump likes to capitalize on.
Truly moderate Republicans and conservatives like Douhat should be the ones doing it. And not just to people like Huckabee-Sanders, who after all, doesn't make policy.
For starters, they should be leaving the party, and if Douhat was really sympathetic to what the proprietor of the Red Hen was doing, he should be calling on Republican politicians who are appalled by Trump to follow in their footsteps.
So Ross, if I understand correctly, you don't want to be denied service because you don't share the political beliefs of the business owners, but you think it's OK to be denied service if you don't share religious beliefs, because then they are acting according to their conscience, right?
Or are you saying that you wouldn't want to live in a world where you were rejected for your political beliefs, but feel it is within the rights of the proprietor to do so if they feel it is the moral thing to do? Methinks you say that because you are fairly confident it won't happen living as you do in a liberal enclave. And we are will past the era when Catholics were regarded with some suspicion and not electible for high public office. And Jews are no longer restricted from country clubs.
I wonder how you would feel about people expressing their moral/religious convictions if they happened repeatedly at your expense.
2
Thanks and congratulations to the courageous owner of
The Red Hen for politely asking Sarah Huckabee Sanders to leave. I call that going high for democracy.
I hope those who agree and live in the area will help increase their business exponentially.
5
I like this thoughtful and intelligent article. I believe though that the example of Yugoslavia is ill chosen. I come from ex-Yugoslavia and was a direct witness of the pre-war era that led to the tragedy.
The problem was opposite from what the author says, for most people failed to recognise the elements of fascism and the pathway to the dictatorships. Basically nobody protested in any way, call it civil or not, against the official perpetuators and supporters of the persecution of minorities. I know of no example anywhere analogous to the Red Hen 'incident' and I for one believe that this lack of moral and civic duty helped the chaos escalate.
What is happening now has nothing to do with politics. Refusing to serve someone who in the official capacity supports the large scale orchestrated abuse of children among other crimes against humanity (and the Constitution) is surely not analogous to refusing someone whose ideas you do not share. It is OK to debate the pros and cons of the civic actions of the Red Hen type, but only if you properly identify the human right abuses that are being committed or planned by this government as we speak and write.
2
" likely to only harden the president’s support, while delivering little tangible benefit to the cause of removing him from office."
Let them come then. I really don't care how Trump supporters feel and there is no place for the political calculus of Washington in how the RedHen is operated and whom they serve. In other words let Schumer and Pelosi decide how to wrangle control of the House and Senate from the GOP, and let the owner of the RedHen decide who she will serve and who she won't. Regarding harassment of administration officials I really don't see anything wrong with the practice so long as the protestors don't lay a finger on any of them. If they then that crosses a line into assault but otherwise they are only exercising their right to free speech in much the same way Trump's supporters are vocal about theirs. Here is the thing, this sort of stuff is normal in Washington DC. It comes with the territory and if Sanders and Nielsen don't like it they should resign and leave town.
4
Lots of back seat drivers on board here, Mr. Douthat included.
My take on what happened is that a restaurant refused service to Sarah Huckabee, the willingly paid, very public face of an administration that fully supports a recent court decision to do exactly that: refuse service to an individual.
Now she knows how it feels to be discriminated against. A very valuable life lesson, I'd say.
15
This opinion piece should be titled "Democratic Death Wish."
Really, the Democrats seem to be doing everything possible to lose the mid-terms and the 2020 election. Calling Ivanka Trump a vile name. Suggesting that Barron Trump should be taken from his mother and locked up with pedophiles. Refusing restaurant service to White House staffers. This is not merely a matter of civility, which Democrats have clearly thrown out the window. This is a matter of profound stupidity.
We Democrats clearly want change in Congress, the White House and elsewhere, but we certainly can't get it by behaving like animals and idiots. We really don't need to slide into the muck with the Trumpers.
The Democrats do not need to be converted; they will vote our way. The Trumpers will never change their minds so they will vote their way. It is the undecided who will make a difference in November and 2020; calling Ivanka foul names and refusing restaurant service to Republicans can only push the undecided into voting for Trump and Republicans.
It's time for strategic thinking, enough with the infantile behavior.
5
I think the following is an apt analogy.
When we were schools, there are always bullies. Sometimes, we can complain to the teachers ( or get our parents to do it) to resolve the matter. Other times, the bully would only back down if the ones being bullied fight back. But what happens when it is the Principal of the school doing the bullying, and the teachers are the enablers?
What does one do when you cannot complain to the teachers or even the principal about the unfair treatment, and students cannot transfer out of that school?
The disparity between the power relationship means that those who are bullied are in a no win situation at least in the short run until we are able to prove that their actions are illegal, or to get the school board to fire those involved en masse.
8
A great deal of relevant context is being ignored.
Sarah Sanders and 7 of her family members were "86'd"
If the cause of protest was actually about advancing morality, then why eject her family?
The general vindictive and intolerant tenor of the "Resistance" from the riot during Inauguration Day, and the smashing of windows and peaceful supporters at Berkeley has been that the "Resistance" is even less trustworthy than Trump.
Comparing "the Resistance" to the Civil Rights movement is far too generous. "The Resistance" does not appear to be promoting general principles of morality, tolerance and democracy that is inclusive for everyone. The vindictive tenor of the protests appear to be revenge, anger, and tribalism.
5
The entire family was not asked to leave, only SHS was. The family chose to leave with her (as most families would have done).
1
Her family was not 86'd as you call it. Only Sanders was asked to leave, the rest of the party left just a bit after she did. Their meal was comped. Your version is what Trump would call FAKE NEWS.
1
I agree with Mr. Douthat. Seems kind of a petty thing to eject her from a restaurant. I don't think many people outside of the beltway pay much attention to the press briefings. If we want to win hearts and minds, take the high road. Many Trump supporters have legitimate concerns that they have been left out of the conversation. Let's find a way to bridge the gap. That's not as easy as showing someone the door in your restaurant, but far more effective in the long run.
4
If you watch the news at all or even the late night shows you can't miss the clips of Sanders sneering and lying to the reporters. I have never watched her news conferences and yet I have seen more of her than I ever wanted to see.
Bridge the gap? Are you serious? After 3 years of a barrage of lies and accusations? And is getting worse?
It takes two to tango.
Some thoughts about this:
natesilver: It’s some sense that “we’re all in this together.”
That was the sense that Obama tried to cultivate and that Trump very much hasn’t.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-are-these-civility-arguments-r...
Sarah Huckabee Sanders has made it her job "to further [Trumpian] lies, treat lies as truth, and make lies acceptable. This is not just a question of protesting a particular policy; in the end there are no policies, only the infantile impulses of a man veering from one urge to another. The great threat to American democracy isn’t “policy” but the pretense of normalcy. That’s the danger, for with the lies come the appeasement of tyranny, the admiration of tyranny, and, as now seems increasingly likely, the secret alliance with tyranny. That’s what makes the Trump Administration intolerable, and, inasmuch as it is intolerable, public shaming and shunning of those who take part in it seems just. Never before in American politics has there been so plausible a reason for exclusion from the common meal as the act of working for Donald Trump."
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/sarah-huckabee-sander...
8
You assume trump and his cabal understand civility. They don't. Otherwise we would not have images of trump smiling and shaking hands with dictators and Russian spies.
14
When you enter into competition the winner may indeed come out very close to the looser. What this means in Trumpland is a certain percentage will always vote Democratic and a certain percentage will always vote Republican common. But the winner will be that one who can turn the largest number of voters. Hillary's example of calling people a "basket of deplorables" is an excellent example of what not to do.
Treating Sara the way the Red Hen treated here is yet another way the Democrats can become there own worst enemy.
Indeed it seems if the real looser is not liberals or conservatives. It is the common decency of the country. We are becoming a lost society with each of us at each others throats. This bodes ill for all.
3
Nice, intellectually generous column --but where was it when a conservative icon like Michael Savage was literally calling for the assassination of President Obama on his radio program -- calling him "a rabid dog that should be dealt with accordingly" -- Or that "all liberals" should be institutionalized because liberalism is a certifiable "mental disorder"? Why is blatant incitement to harassment or violence only a cause for concern by conservatives when it is advanced by a few liberals but is routinely forgiven when pushed by right wing icons because of the "understandable angst" of conservatives who feel marginalized by social ch
12
The Red Hen in Lexington is a great little restaurant in a nice little town. Well worth pulling off the highway for (I-81).
15
My sister lives in VA and this year's birthday present will be dinner at the Red Hen.
1
Mr. Douthat: You lost me at "while no doubt a good mother and kind person in the private aspects of her life." Really? Do you know that to be true? If so, how? Else, why should your other statements matter?
11
It's capitalism. I would think a conservative writer should be a fan of the concept.
7
Ross, in general, I don't care much for your way of thinking. Too much church in your idea of state. But, I would not kick you out of my restaurant. You'd probably be aching to leave after fifteen minutes of a "separation of church and state" lecture from me, but, hey, that would be your choice.
You know why I wouldn't kick you out? Because you've never subjected any of your readers to "birther" nonsense, or similar garbage.
Now, I know Sanders is not, herself, the "birther" promulgator. She's not Trump, the actual liar. She's just the spewer of the lies. Therefore, I would not kick her out. Just as I would do with you, I'd hover over her and harangue her. Then, I'd leave her in peace to enjoy a yummy meal. I'd still be doing my civic duty as a restaurant owner and providing a meal to a patron, but I'd also be salving my conscience by making it exceedingly clear that she's enabling a lying grifter every time she stands up there and represents him.
Mr. "birther" himself? He'd get kicked out in a nanosecond. Sorry, that's just how it is.
I think I'm really starting to get a handle on this "freedom of speech" thing.
4
Since she rudely and sanctimoniously disrespects press reporters and the American public, she has had it coming. Also, since the White House switchboard always turns off before comments can be recorded, and there is no room on the White House website for citizen comment, sometimes an oppositional gesture is refreshing. Maybe, just maybe, she could chew on that a bit. Of course, it may have been preferable for the waitstaff and manager to comp her meal and inform her that they will donate the proceeds to the Gay Men's Health Crisis , the ACLU, or refugee relief....
5
Sure, nice gesture but do you really think she'll get the irony? She'll see the free meal as supportive of her mission in life, to ruin lives of those yearning to be free from violence.
While Donald Trump is appalling in so many ways, the divisive Barack Obama lied to this nation, as well, personally and through his press secretaries (Robert Gibbs, Jay Carney, and Josh Earnest).
And no one on the Right suggests those prevaricators or their families should be shunned, harrassed, or denied service.
Wow, who knew?
The Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., who I think is on record as preaching and personally practicing, at the cost of his life, nonviolent resistance against the Nazi regime deployed against blacks in the pre-Civil Rights era, and who in 1964 was awarded something called the Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts, was really, Douthat allows, "no plaster saint of civility".
Because I'm a foolish, squishy liberal, I don't understand and can't be made to understand (a) how that statement could possibly be accurate, and/or (b) how in any event it could possibly be Douthat's place to act as the civility police in the case of the man who, when the roll is called of the most civil people in the planet's history, can only be at the very top of the list.
4
I am not a great Douthat fan and don't generally defend him, but in an article written by a liberal yesterday saying that shaming was legitimate the writer also made the point that MLK wasn't always nice. He didn't advocate throwing bombs, but then then neither did the owner of the Red Hen. She seems nice to me actually, didn't make a scene, just quiet asked Huck to leave.
In an interview with Nelson Mandela I read somewhere a long time ago he was asked about the violence in the anti-apartheid movement and he said that the only reason he wasn't involved in it was because he was jailed so early in his efforts against the system.
No matter what King may or may not have done politicians and segregationists considered him to be rude and uncivil. Trevor Noah did a bit last night showing clips of various Southern politicians, among them George Wallace, complaining about King and the trouble he caused. To people like him King was trouble. To others he was a hero.
And hey, Kissinger and that guy from North Viet Nam got the Nobel Peace Prize.
2
We all need to raise our voices. When young children are being taken from their moms and dads, this is no time to shut up and be quiet. It really is kid-napping, child abuse and torture.
What`s happening in our country is beyond the pale - beyond any rational, civil discourse. This racist, misogynist bully and his followers are not listening to civil discourse. It is time to step up and call out these dispicable human beings. To quote the great James Baldwin -
"these are times that require us 'to ask very hard questions and take very rude positions. And no matter at what the price."
5
What an astoundingly good writer and thinker Ross Douthat is!
Many vehemently anti-Trump Americans such as me look at the kind of self-congratulatory grandstanding the Red Hen engaged in, and ask, "Is this the kind of world I want to live in?" The answer is a resounding "no."
There must be places in our world which remain safe harbors from politics. Hollywood doesn't understand this, which is why the numbers of Oscars viewers shrink every year. NASCAR doesn't get this, which is why that sport barely exists outside of blood red states.
We have a kind of Bambi vs. Godzilla dilemma here. Bambi, by her nature, is nurturing, compassionate, accommodating to a fault, and loath to inflict injury on anyone -- verbal, physical, or spiritual (no sticking pins in Voodoo dolls). Godzilla, by his nature, is an insensitive, brutal, ferocious. scorched-earth, reptile-brain sort of guy.
So what does Bambi do when Godzilla eats her lunch? Does she give him a cheese plate in a doggy bag? Does she share her feelings with the wood nymphs and sprites in the forest? No. She makes a practical analysis of the situation: "If I do this, then Godzilla's supporters might do x, y, and z..."
In the end, Godzilla steps on her.
4
"The central political problem for the Resistance, at the moment, is that they see the Trump administration as self-evidently authoritarian and perhaps even trending Nazi-ward, while much of the country dislikes Trump and opposes many of his policies but just doesn’t see that same scale of existential danger."
Well "no one ever expects the Spanish Inquisition" do they? I may live in a city now, but I grew up and went to school in the kind of place where people have backup generators, fireplaces, multiple well-stocked fridges. To be clear cold-weather climates don't have a monopoly on dangerous weather conditions. But, to me, extreme snow has always seemed downright insidious. Most natural disasters hit towns like some heavy metal god of vengeance. By comparison, snow is a "silent majority" of ice-cold sociopaths; these flakes gather while you sleep.
Some people will wake up to find themselves cold and wondering what happened to all the fire they had burning just yesterday. More vulnerable people (sick, poor, elderly, young children, homeless, etc.) may not wake up at all. And as for all the well-ordered local, state and federal highways? Well, I guarantee you Mississippi's never seen the kind of white power I'm talking about. You may need to plow through a lot of it to get anywhere at all (how very uncivilized to disturb all those delicate snowflakes).
Wow. That is some hyperbole. Civil rights supporters would have been shot by the state if they tried to turn Lurleen Wallace out of her favorite restaurant. Perhaps you forget what they endured with peaceful protests to gain lawful rights they were denied.
Yeah, and when you find any video or other recording of Dr. King insulting someone or some group, or threatening them with physical violence, do let us know. But, that is what America and the rest of the world sees from this White House every day. Every day.
8
Someone should ask Ross Douthat where did Jesus say it is OK to discriminate against gay people (or any people, for that matter), because that is the argument that self-proclaimed "Christians" are using to refuse to sell a cake or flowers to gay people.
8
Just for the record. It's not only gay people who are being discriminated against by "Christians" these days.
4
Can we all offer a wish that The Red Hen increases its profit margin by the length of time trump spends "doing his hair comb" every day. (Although I suspect he has a hair-dresser on permanent duty. Yup.)
Here's to TRUTH!
VOTE!
3
Perhaps I've just read too much of recent history where this baker is concerned (since everybody seems to be comparing that SCOTUS decision to the current SHS restaurant business), but unless I'm badly misremembering it, the baker did bake cakes for homosexuals and/or same sex weddings, but refused to bake one in the particular case cited because there was something wanted on the cake, or on the top of the cake, that would have constituted and endorsement of homosexuality and/or same sex marriage, and THAT is what the case came down to, and the Court decided that for authorities to instruct you to violate your own religious principles was pushing equal business accommodation too far. In the SHS case, we have merely a business owner disliking a customer's political opinions and/or activities, and so asking her to leave. Should all restaurants and other business establishments (Macy's, Walmarts, candy stores, Major League Baseball, etc.) now post qualifications for admittance?; maybe "Democrats will not be served", "No Republicans need enter", or "All political party members prohibited from entering these premises"? Didn't we use to do that with Irish, Jews and African-Americans? Somebody seems to be regressing here. I take that back. EVERYBODY seems to be regressing here!
The Red Hen went about their objection to Sanders in the wrong manner.If they had refused her service on the basis that their Christian religious beliefs demanded that they not provide service to those who engaged in sins against god, then there could be no backlash. And separating children from parents is surely a sin against god's beliefs.
Bingo! Now explain to the Supreme Court the slippery slope we are on due to their frivolous decision.
4
The problem is not the lack of civility. We have thick skins, we can take it. It's instead the destruction of the line between private lives and public lives. I don't care if lefties want to write or say nasty things about administration officials on Twitter or in comments to the New York Times or in parades down 5th Avenue. It's a free country. But harassing members of the opposition party when they are trying to live their personal lives is another dramatic step away from democracy. If the left keeps this up, the next step will be for some enterprising soul to dox the lefties who are involved, and that will be followed by personal harassment of them in their personal and private lives - they'll find out what it's like to be yelled at by a small mob when they are just trying to buy groceries or put their kids on the school bus. I don't see how this doesn't spiral down into widespread political violence.
3
Talk about shooting the messenger. I don't get why people hate Sarah Sanders so much. I always felt sorry for her. She's clearly a smart, capable person with a lot to offer. As the daughter of a prominent Senator, it was probably her lifelong dream to be a Press Secretary for a Republican President. The bottom line is, she's not responsible for Trump's policies. Her job is to communicate to the press what he wants her to communicate. If she deviates from that, even slightly, she will immediately be replaced by someone who won't. So she is not to blame. This is how she puts food on the table. She's no more responsible for what's happening than the pen Trump uses to sign executive orders. Shame on the pen!!
So progressives need to be polite because otherwise Trump supporters will get mad? That ship sailed long ago. For decades, progressives have made the mistake of thinking that the Marquis of Queensbury rules apply in a knife fight. Listen to Fox News for five minutes and you realize the right knows it is at war and will do whatever it takes to win. The only way to deal with a bully is to bloody his nose.
5
The Sanders case is not like the Colorado bakery cake. It is really more similar to the Starbucks situation of calling the police on the unwanted visitors.
As such, the employees of the Red Hen are in need of some diversity training.
4
I think that the shunning is appropriate. Trump has opened the pandora's box of hateful rhetoric toward groups, as well as personal attacks on individuals. Those of us who still believe in certain standards of behavior based on respect for all human life should now take a stand and say " no, we will not allow this in our society, you are not welcome here, so take your lying, mean-spiritedness elsewhere." Most trumpsters live in an information bubble, and they surround themselves with people who think like they do--its about time they learned that they are in the minority, and we have reached the point where we must take a stand, and push the hatred back into the box where it belongs.
2
When one lies down with dogs, one can very likely get up with fleas.
I, for one, do not want to dine with flea carriers...
2
So your rule with regard to protest/Resistance is don't over fascist/Nazi the person/party you accuse of being a fascist/Nazi?
Sound's like a good principal, except when lack of self-awareness makes it difficult. Your advice to the Resistance may be good wisdom, but in my experience, most of the foot soldiers of the Resistance are tone deaf. They only scream "Nazi" louder, (redirected at you) when you point out their strategy is fascist.
2
You're worried about these people playing the victim card? They've been doing that since before Trump got elected! It was stated as the major reason Trump did get elected.
If you go online and research how to deal with a psychopath, most websites will tell you to placate them. Good grief! Are all those websites written by psychopaths. Everyone on this planet dislikes a bad day. So, if a psychopath gives you a bad day, you give them one back, and immediately, without hesitating; don't give them time to think it through. Even Pavlov's dog understood the ramifications. Basic.
Playing the victim is the psychopath's biggest tool.
You lost me at: "...spin the president’s Twitter rants and moonshine-laced speeches.." Where did you get that DJT drinks moonshine?
Drink responsibly--write/opine responsibly, Mr. Douthat
1
We are way past civility with a birther so called President in office who made fun of disabled people, grabs women when and where he chooses and tells his followers to knock people out and he will pay for their lawyers. This cretin has set the bar very low and nothing will get the cult followers attention but retribution in like kind. No Quarter. I lived through the sixties , protested on the street through tear gas etc and even now over 70 , will do so again. No time or place for shrinking violets.
1
Takeaway--Denpmocrats should be wise as serpents and innocent as doves
1
I simply cannot fathom this column.
Gays are legally refused service after Masterpiece Cakeshop ruling in Denver. To the applause of the right wing.
Now the right wing is complaining? Now you put pen to paper to write...anything at all????
Please...
According to the dictionary civility = formal politeness and courtesy. If it is true that Sanders' meal at the Red Hen was already eaten, and the owner took her aside and spoke with her privately and civilly, then civility is not even an issue in this particular instance. It is an issue in other instances, but a concern for politeness and political reward can castrate one's responses to injustice. Ralph Waldo Emerson addressed the claim that people who spoke out fiercely against slavery were hurting the cause. He stated: "“If you starve or beat the orphan, in my presence, and I accuse your cruelty, can I help it? ... will you blame the air for rushing in where a vacuum is made or the boiler for exploding under pressure of steam? These facts are after laws of the world, and so is it law, that when justice is violated, anger begins. The very defense which the God of Nature has provided for the innocent against cruelty is the sentiment of indignation and pity in the bosom of the beholder ... Language must be naked, the secrets of slaughterhouses and infamous holes that cannot front the day must be ransacked to tell what negro slavery has been.” So it is with children taken from their families and poor, exhausted immigrants treated cruelly. I support civility, but not when it robs one's response to grave injustice of any moral force.
I read the explanation given by the owner of the Red Hen for asking Ms. Sanders to leave. There are gay people working at the restaurant and they are deeply offended by what Ms. Sanders has said, in public, about LGBTQ people. The owner said she asked to speak to Ms. Sanders aside and asked her politely to leave and that Ms. Sanders, politely, agreed. I do not see the case that this was shaming. Nor do I see it as a protest, as it was Ms. Sanders who publicized the incident, turning it into an event, not the owner. What I see is a woman taking offense both for herself and, more importantly, members of her staff, at what Ms. Sanders had said on a national stage to disparage them. Mr. Douthat misses the mark by a good bit here, as has the media in general.
6
I just read an article about sexual obsessions--this will make sense, trust me--about a man who paid for an obsession film, made to order, of a woman in a frenzy swatting flies. Is that what we're all doing? Swatting flies? If someone wants each of us to grab an opinion, jump in, and argue about this restaurant until it's all neatly settled, well, sure, let's do that, just as soon as we've taken care of the deluge, drought, fire, mass extinctions, and reef death, of climate disaster. Or gotten our infrastructure, from grades "D", "E", and "F", up to to "A". Or when black passersby aren't shackled for "fitting the description" (as Lenny Kravitz was. Was the description for "handsome, talented, and stylish"?) Until then, the flies aren't real, and more momentous things, are.
1
If you think Trump is a menace to Democracy (I do), then it is not that difficult to come to the conclusion that people who work directly under Trump and actually defend him in public are also a menace to Democracy. After that, it is easy-peasy to justify making their public lives hell.
3
This, all of it, everything going on, is a direct offshoot of one group of people (half of the country) imposing their political will on other people (the other half of the country), with zero regard for their positions or sentiments. When one political group uses a meager (if any) majority to impose its will on the entire population, and does so with extreme measures in venue after venue and on issue after issue, then this is the result. It has nothing to do with Trump, Sanders, Democrats, Republicans or anything else. It has nothing to do with individual issues.
This is all the result of an attempt at unrestrained tyranny by one fraction of the population over the rest.
And it will not end until people are willing to admit that they may not be 100% correct in their position on all 100 issues facing society, and perhaps they should listen to others, search for the perspective they may be lacking, and find compromise or at least restraint in how to handle the issues of the day.
And of all things the U.S. Supreme Court is the latest to throw kerosine into the flames.
1
Does Douthat believe that employees as well as business owners should be able to exercise their moral convictions in the workplace? As a bartender I have put up with a lot. I think it is high time that Trump’s henchmen be shamed and held accountable, but do question whether Red Henning them is effective.
1
I agree with you, Mr. Douthat, although I confess that I cheered when Nielsen was shamed by protesters and Sanders was asked to leave a restaurant. After a day or two, however, I saw that this was only turning Sanders, of all people, into a victim - and giving ammo to Trump supporters.
The Roseanne Barr and Samantha Bee firestorms are analogous. Roseanne tweeted something despicably hateful about a black public figure and lost her job for it. I could understand Samantha Bee calling out Ivanka's inexcusable silence re: immigrant children at the border, but it would have been much more effective if she had had a skit about Ivanka being a mommy concerned only about posed Instagram photos. Instead, she called her an offensive word and Bee's entire message was lost. Moral coward Ivanka becomes a "victim." All of a sudden, Trumpsters could claim the "score" was even and the anti-Trumps act no better than Trumpsters. Roseanne said this and then, in the same week, Samantha Bee said that.
Martin Luther King, Jr. was very strategic. You are right, King used his non-violent protests to showcase the violence and cruelty of Jim Crow and its defenders. And he used almost everything that happened to him -as leader of the civil rights movement - to further the cause. He wrote his famous "Letter From a Birmingham Jail" while he was incarcerated.
So how can Americans who oppose Trump protest in a way
that will showcase Trump's lies and his cruelty?
1
Although this is off-topic, I got to thinking: we could save taxpayer money by not having any Press Secretary located in the Trump White House. Just let Fox News run press conferences and such.
After all, I heard on Fake News today that a former Fox employee may be the new White House Communications Director, so wouldn't this all mesh nicely? They could have their proverbial cake and eat it too.
3
If Clinton hadn't used "deplorable" to shame her opposition I believe that fewer people would have so gleefully embraced her degenerate flag-hugging opponent. As for the general public there appears to be a direct correlation between anonymous untempered expressions of moral dismay on social media and the rise of polarized political tribalism. While virtually "yelling" at people is acceptable behavior online it seems kind of unhinged in a restaurant.
At the same time I detest the press secretary and might not be able to resist the urge to yell at her in public.
Here in San Francisco we have a problem with similar bad behavior towards women trying to gain access to gay bars. These women are required to provide proof of ID and kept waiting at the entrance while men are not. To think that Mrs. Wilkinson’s employees are most likely gay makes me very uneasy about their bad decision.
I do not condone bad service to any woman regardless of her political affiliation.
3
This approach will not win Congress for the Democrats. We get it -- you hate Trump and think he's the devil incarnate. Problem is, that doesn't sway people who feel otherwise, and getting out all those extra votes in districts you're already going to win by 75-25 margins does nothing to boost your overall numbers. It does however give you a false sense of security when you look at the so-called "neutral ballot" and see yourself plus.
By refusing to address the underlying policy issues in any intelligent fashion, and directing their anger at the people associated with said policies, ignores the thing that really matters.
Most people want enforceable borders. Most people want to be able to take a closer look at people entering the country from countries known to produce terrorists. Most people don't want endless taxation and ever-escalating national debt. Instead of addressing these issues in logical fashion, the Democrats' approach consists mainly of labeling border control "racist" and characterizing any attempt to cut federal spending as "heartless" or worse.
I can only hope that the Democrats don't catch on until it's too late. The recent primary win by a House candidate in New York proposing to do away with ICE gives me solid hope that they won't catch on any time soon. Whew.
5
The Democrats would much rather scream and shame than win, and that's the bottom line. It's a toddler mentality that's all about feeling good in the moment, with no consideration of the future, or the rights of anyone else.
3
To loosely draw, and slightly reword the MLK quote, "She was not judged by the color of her skin, but by the content of her character."
3
"But I do want to live in a country where people feel comfortable exercising moral convictions in the way they run their businesses — whether they’re Christian bakers and florists or the Red Hen’s progressive proprietor." Bad idea. If this catches on, it will become a mess. Imagine a long list of "qualified customers" outside of each establishment - that's where this leads. Then we, as customers, would have to know the proclivities of all the companies we deal with. A bit daft, as our British friends might say.
If a company offers a service in the public sphere, it should deliver that service without bias with very few exceptions.
(Still, for example, a particular restaurant server might be justified, in conscience, to not work a table.)
Btw - the same principle applies to paying one's income tax; you generally can't refuse to pay part of your tax for expenditures "X", that you don't like.
In any case, to bring more persons to your way of thinking, it should be better to work positively in an appropriate way, rather than go for the quick news-generating onesie.
2
Trump “enablers” who mingle with the public should expect very vocal rebuke. Why would they expect any different? I do wish that others would make themselves available, perhaps Scott Pruitt, Manuchin, Carson, or Mulvaney.
Pretty much any restaurant you enter has some kind of notice stating to the effect "we reserve the right to refuse service". Assuming that this is a legally permissible stance, then what's the big deal? The owner of Little Red Hen exercised her right to refuse service. Based on the right's infinite reserve of animus towards various classes of people, and continual need to litigate their right to refuse service to these classes of people, why can't a left-leaning business do the same? Why are right wingers who deny access to services lauded as heroes and left wingers are decried as uncivil menaces to decorum? The right wing sure spends a lot of time lecturing the left on our 'snowflake' tendencies, but its quite obvious they are projecting their own inability to face criticism and public opprobrium onto the rest of us. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If the right doesn't like being publicly ostracized then perhaps they should do a bit less ostracizing themselves.
2
He describes Sanders as "a good mother" first because that's really the most important aspect of any woman for Douthat. He should conclude each and every column with the statement: "Women should marry and be mothers." Everything else is chatter.
A lot of people here are cheering the reception she received at the restaurant. This kind of thing can easily become a two-way street. How fast will people change their tune when it is a liberal being kicked out? I thought so.
2
The SCOTUS decided that a baker could refuse to make a cake for a gay couple. Pandora's box is now open, and the Law of Unintended Consequences will prevail. Anyone and everyone will now feel empowered to decide who they will want to serve...and rightly so. Not what America has stood for.
Too bad the restaurateur did not tell Sarah her food was being prepared, even if it wasn't. If Sarah can't take a lie, too bad.
Harden the president's support? It's already cruelly hard - REGARDLESS of what the left does or if David Gergen approves. For the hardened right, there are no moderates they won't roll over and destroy.
"To be clear, I don’t particularly want to live in a world of" religiously based bigoted restaurants, bakeries, hobby shops, pharmacists, doctors, hospitals or schools. There's a huge difference being hatefully discriminated against because of fraudulent hateful religious beliefs.
"To be clear," this is not a difference of opinion or politics between Sarah Huckabee and the restaurateur. It's Sarah's incessant daily lying and defense of the indefensible - thereby aiding and abetting atrocities against innocent children and babies - to the restaurateur and at the restaurateur expense (in taxes) that the owner objects to serving her.
Sarah IS NOT serving her country, she is lying to her country. She's supposed to serve the public interest she's paid for, not to shamelessly lie to the public. Indeed, she should state "Mr. president I will not lie, deceive or mislead the American people on your behalf."
Resistance to trump -or not- will change nothing with trump's base. Not resisting gives the base license to attack with impunity.
Resistance isn't enough. We need to DEFY trump at every opportunity we get - no 'amnesty' or 'sanctuary' for any of them.
2
~"...the communicative aspect, the rhetorical aspect, the aspect that deals with public truth and falsehood."~
You limited the impact of what Sanders does. She is belligerent and condescending. She insults reporters by saying they don't understand because the sentence structure is too complex. She reflects trump who yells "get them out of here"; and incites the supplicants to "hit them in the mouth".
Some people are fed up with the threat of physical harm, which is implicit in her attitude and words. It seems understandable that people who are frustrated will fight back.
Play the game, accept the consequences.
1
I see it all the time: "We retain the right to refuse service."
2
The Red Hen will close within a couple months.
Alienating the half of their customers that lean conservative plus a good portion of those left leaners with a sense of manners is not good business sense.
3
Rather than yelling at Sarah Huckabee Sanders when she goes out to eat or having her banned from the restaurant, why not simply treat her the way she treats reporters and the public at her press conferences? For instance, if she orders fish, have the waiter bring her chicken and when she complains, have the waiter ask her why she insists on focusing on the negative aspects of the service she received rather than being appreciative of the fact that the waiter brought her the appetizer and soup she ordered? Or why not have the waiter give her a bill for a higher amount than the waiter had previously told her, and when she asks why the waiter lied, have the waiter tell Ms. Sanders that the matter has been referred to outside counsel and that she should direct her questions to him? She'll get the message.
7
Having lived through the last great schism of the Democratic Party, during the 1960's and 70's, when it all but broke apart under the weight of its two competing visions for the future of the Party ( on one side the traditional Left and Left of Center New Deal Democrats who were in power, and the outsider Radical Left-driven on by its growing disgust with the course of the Vietnam War and intrenched Jim Crow), I can sense our Party is at that same critical junction today
And after experiencing the results of this schism- the elections of Richard Nixon/ Gerald Ford, and Ronald Reagan/Geo. H. Bush, and 20 years in the political wilderness (Jimmy Carter not withstanding)-I think the Democratic Party of today can either repeat the same mistakes the Demos made during the critical election years of 1968 and 1972, and let their intra-Party differences poison their chances of election victory, or set aside these differences long enough to present a united front to the electorate that is built on a sound and readily comprehensible platform.
From the looks of it today however, I expect they (we) will simply dissolve into a series of increasingly self indulgent (and ultimately futile) round of name calling and acrimony; which only succeeds in - once again-confusing and frightening the electorate.
3
I can't help but think that any issue on which Ross Douthat and Frank Bruni agree they are probably both right. Every day there is a new reason to be angry at the Trump administration, but this isn't the way to change it. That said, one would imagine that Ms. Huckabee Sanders could find a more simpatico provision of her poultry needs at Chick-fil-a than Red Hen. And can't we at least enjoy the irony of two officials most devoted to driving all Mexicans out of the country dining out at Mexican restaurants?
4
I don't think it's irony as much as it was intentional (like Melania's jacket) -- to cause a stir and deflect attention from "the man behind the curtain."
The fact that the restaurants served Mexican food guaranteed that the news would hit the papers in any case. The shaming and refusal of service would start the moral outrage machine.
They should simply have spit in her food and be done with it.
I wish she had just seved Sanders herself after a chat during which she
explained politely that Sanders herself should realize that her own uncivil comments and behavior had made her staff uncomfortable and that her staff includes human beings who are horrified at how this administration speaks about and treats others, so as the owner she will serve her and her party but the really might be more comfortable somewhere else. I don't know. A conversation? But thinking all that through in the moment is not always what I do either.
After hearing how some car repair shops rip off women, how some bartenders overcharge gays, how some restaurants seat blacks near the kitchen; I find Miss Wilkinson behavior equally abhorrent!
1
As far as I'm concerned, she should go eat well done steak and double portions of ice cream at the Trump Hotel with the rest of the uncivil grifters, liars and cheats in this administration.
9
To me, the problem with the Red Hen approach to resistance is that it shifts the focus from those suffering under Trump's policies to Sarah Sanders' feelings. If, instead of asking her to leave, the restaurateur had admitted protesters who stood nearby holding photographs of children separated from their parents at the border, or melting polar icecaps, or any other number of horrors, it might have been more effective. We need protests that emphasize the disconnect of Trump administration officials sitting around eating while the country is suffering because of their policies. Instead we get a discussion of Sarah Sanders' feelings.
5
Except on a Friday night in Lexington VA, there were no protestors ready to confront Sarah Sander in the off chance that she chose to dine there.
I sometimes just read these comments to get a tone on where things are headed in this country. From the sample of today's comments, the tone is not good. I feel hate in these comments. I feel frustration and I sense people have given up on the union. Where does this take us? Do we now add violence to righteous hate speech? Maybe it's time for everyone to take a step back and realize that hate, an unwillingness to listen to each other, no attempt to treat each other decently no matter what you think or what the other person says about you, leads us to not a good place. I just visited the site of the Battle of Chancellorsville and I wonder if we are beginning to line up just as the troops did then. With no Abraham Lincoln in the White House to stay the course and steer us back to reason, I fear this time could be bloodier and longer lasting. I think I will serve people I disagree with and will continue to give others the benefit of the doubt. This is still the greatest country in the world. We have had other dark times but our belief that we are great got us through. I am not sure we still believe we are great, and that is worrisome.
3
But the "tone" was okay when trump calls for "Second Amendment solutions" for Democrats? Or when he slanders Gold Star parents or a former POW who endured torture? Or perhaps when innocent children are referred to as "infesting" the US as if they are vermin? Or maybe the "tone" of Hannity and company at Fox news is more to your liking? Me, the opposition, Democrats, or anyone with half a brain and a quantum of moral decency still believe deeply in our country and our Constitution. It's the Republicans I've given up on. They're in lock step with a serial liar, soulless grifter and vicious troll, their fearless leader, President Bone Spurs. As the face of this so-called administration, she lies and stonewalls daily. She should be a public pariah.
4
Be careful what you ask for, you might get it. Asking for privilege rather than justice and equality is a two edged sword that can turn around and cut you down. The right is pushing back using the left's own playbook tactics, forcing the hypocrisy of both into the light.
2
REJ-
Trump is a cartoon character, who keeps rebounding.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
So, I think the only way to beat him is with actions.
Words, alone have not made a dent in Trump's armor.
Action speaks louder than words with Trump and Trumpsters.
Democrats must come up with a cast of characters and action.
I suggest that Democrats hold contests to find better ideas
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
3
I agreee we need to be prepared for effective action. Not sure how to do it, but who knows, a contest might work.
Or maybe a bunch of really smart, informed, creative people deciding to DO something, instead of just talking about it.
I'll tell you what Mr. Douthat, considering how you equate choosing to lie to the public from a government position with sexuality which is not a choice (except for a small percentage of the population), how about you stop inflaming people about these subjects because you don't know what you are talking about?
Why is she "no doubt a good mother and kind person"? No need to sugarcoat this with presumptions.
5
It really has two point of views this issue. My only opinion is that Sarah Sanders wants to play the victim but she is not victim. People dislike her because of who she is, not even because she works for Trump but because the way she is. How many times how she insulted reporters at briefing? Jim Acosta from CNN is always harrased by Trump supporters, not only because Trump calls them fake news but also the interactions at the WH briefings. She is always diminishing reporters and has the aura of the Queen of England. She lies, insults people, and that face like a border wall makes her personality worst. I probably would have done the same or at least ask not to serve her table.. And I dont think people are going to start harrasing all the staff but some of the staff wont have it easy: Sarah, Miller, Sessions, Nielsen, Devos has seen it since day one.. I just hope people protest and tell them what they think in a civil way, but do not go silent and if you go silent wear a t-shirt or something that says what you think of this admnistration
4
Trump, Hannity, Sanders and others foam at the mouth all day with the most vicious, insulting lies which we're all supposed to accept/forgive/ignore.
This was a minor way to fight back. And for that, I applaud it.
10
Very good column Ross. I, for one, think that the "Resistance" (what a stupid name) is only hurting themselves. I'm on the left wing on the vast majority of issues, but this is basic human psychology. This is meat and drink for Trump and the Trump propaganda machine (Fox News). This only helps him. I don't know about most folks, but if I don't like a person and don't want them to be president, I try not to actively help them.
I also think the point about the place in which the protest occurs is a good one. If you want to protest Sarah Huckabee Sanders then do what one bright person suggested (Jay Rosen, maybe?) and "send the interns" to the White House press briefings. Stop sending your senior people to try and catch the Press Secretary having to defend a lying president by lying herself. Show her that we know she's lying, and we don't have the time or the inclination to deal with it when there are real issues that need attention.
5
The rightwing media machine turns everything into fodder for their base. Not resisting won't stop them, it makes their job easier.
Ross, I am entertained by all the creative rhetorical resources you employed to avoid saying the words "lie," "lying" and "liar."
6
Because of our corrupt leadership, It is left to us, the citizens of what was once a civil society, to teach Sarah Sanders and her kind how a true democracy should work. Therefore; she must be served in restaurants and other businesses open to the public. Denying her service teaches her nothing.
2
No, PFN -- there are laws allowing public dissent and allowing business owners not to serve people. No laws were broken at the Red Hen. It was democracy at work.
2
When Red Hen invited Sarah and her party to leave it turned Sarah into a martyr to Trumpism. Anger for no long term benefit.
I loathe Sanders as much as the anyone who actually uses their high school education, but if you want to do something, liberals, go walk a precinct, talk to people who are alienated from the political process (especially young people), get them registered to vote, and get them to the polls in November. This isn't the time for feel-good protests or making your voices heard in the streets. It's time to go out and do the work needed to take the Congress back. That's the only thing that matters right now, and that's where all our energy should be going.
4
What makes you think protest is only about feeling good. Protests work -- and have through our history.
It's time for EFFECTIVE protests. Let be ready for the next assault and find a way to protest effectively. Not protesting is not a good option.
1
"To be clear, I don’t particularly want to live in a world of conservative and liberal restaurants"
The Supreme Court recently sided with a Colorado baker that refused service to people because they were gay. As such, I think that you already do live in that kind of world - only it's worse. In the case of Sanders, she was denied service because she is aiding and abetting a racist misogynist seemingly intent on demolishing the foundations of a once great nation. In the Supreme Court ruling - folks are being denied service because of who they are.
This is America.
5
SHS has a job to do. Not everyone would take this job but if it was not SHS it would be another Trump appointee. I watch her press conferences on UTUBE and she seems like a nice person with a rather cordial relationship with the WH press corp. I dislike everything about Donald Trump, my dislike is growing into hate for the man. But to refuse to accommodate and hassle SHS or anyone else in the administration is adding fuel to the fire Trump uses motivate his mob of supporters. It is the wrong tactic and gives the Democratic party a black eye.
3
The difference between standing for something and petulance is not complicated.
The right-wing Trumpers mock us left-wing liberals as no-backbone, crime-loving, gun-hating, politically correct snowflakes. Then someone like Robert De Niro insults Trump in front of a cheering audience, and the Trumpers send up howls of anger and accusation. I'll admit that the howls sound sweeter to me than the snarky slanders. Some people don't hear anything except what they want to hear, until you shout what they don't want to hear in their face. Sanders lies to us all the time, channeling her truth-challenged boss, and she acts as if the press is the enemy. I wish I could have dinner at the Red Hen and take all my friends. And leave a big tip.
5
The baker in Colorado refused to serve a gay couple and the court says that's OK. So if the restauranteur in Virginia refuses to serve a person who supports not serving the gay couple, then that is OK as well.
But the issue is not whether these things are legal. It is whether they are right.
I agree with Ross that I don't want to live in a world where every businessperson sizes me up when I walk in and decides whether to serve me or not. Recently a pharmacist at a Walgreens refused to prescribe an abortion pill--prescribed by a doctor--to a young woman due to his personal beliefs. The anti-gay baker did the same. So where does it end? Can an evangelical refuse to serve a Jew or Muslim due to his strongly held religious beliefs that they are going to Hell for being non-believers? How about a white supremacist who believes the races should be separated--can he refuse to serve an African America because those are his strongly held "religious" or personal beliefs?
That's not a world we want to live in, and it is the antithesis of American values. Bottom line: If you don't want to serve the public at large, don't own or work for a retail business.
1
So, tread lightly lefties so you don't seem like goths at the gates about to attack our patriotic, God-fearing city on the hill, our thousand points of light, by refusing to serve SHS at a local small town restaurant. Where will it end, what lengths will the left go to?
Never mind the neo-Nazi leanings of Trump, the attacks on the free press, the FBI, the attorney general, our allies, the glory of Sheriff Joe, Fox News, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbahgh, Judge Roy, Scott Pruitt, the savaging of Robert Mueller, the ballooning deficit, the honorable Kim Jung-Un, the strong leader Putin, the theft of a SCOTUS seat by Mitch McConnell. i don't have the memory or patience to go on.
Ignore the metastatic cancer attacking our body politic in favor of being politic, at least until the battle is lost, the cancer takes over and it's too late to do anything.
2
Thank you for this column.
Liberals have always been the accommodating, reasonable ones. This is likely to change, and perhaps it's time. I've had enough.
10
The article is correct. The Red Hen-Waters “kill the messenger” tactic plays directly into Trump’s hands. How can the “Resistance” claim its moral and civil high ground when it is attacking minions and anyone who supports Trump on the streets? This approach will very likely lead to alienating the marginal Trump supporters the Resistance is trying to win over in the next elections. They were the ones who got Trump elected in the first place. The Resistance would be well advised to disown and take a tactical retreat from this position as quickly as possible to further its strategic aim of winning Congress in the next elections, not to mention the Presidency in 2010.
4
All of these comments and associated press coverage of this whole saga from "bus interview" to "red hen" and beyond reminds me of something my mother told' "No matter what anyone says or does, always act with dignity". Sage advice for all sides during times like these.
Why complicate it? It seems like the direct application of the Golden Rule.
The lesson to be learned here is that there are consequences to the hate you promote and the lies you tell. As the daughter of a preacher, I still cannot fathom the manner in which Sarah Huckabee Sanders serves Donald Trump, but then I come to accept that the evangelical right is not really Christian in the way Christ was. At best, people like Ms. Sanders are posers, using the claim of being Christian as a cover for their hatred, avarice and insecurity.
7
Just keep watching those 5-4 Supreme Court decisions moving us closer to being a third world country to see what our "civility" has earned us. It becomes a very lopsided contest when only one side plays by the rules!
5
"To be clear, I don’t particularly want to live in a world of conservative and liberal restaurants, where I’m frog-marched out of my local artisanal coffee shop because the owner hates my column..."
Here's the difference:
1) Sarah H-S is a spokesperson for the president.
2)The position of president represents the people of the US.
3) President Trump repeatedly lies to the people of the US.
4) Therefore, Sarah H-S is lying to the people of the US when she defends his actions.
5) The people of the US have a right to protest and shun those who lie to them.make a mockery of their lives and their country.
The owner of the Red Hen asked Sarah H-S to meet with her privately and then asked her to leave. It became public only when Sarah tweeted about the incident on her government Twitter account.
SPEAKING UP to confront abusers is CIVIL behavior. SPEAKING OUT to hold people accountable is CIVIL behavior. Those who want and/or try to quash such free speech are unamerican and should be ashamed of themselves.
Sheeple turn a blind-eye and remain silent.
The actions and behaviors conducted in one's job is not wholly separable from that person when s/he is not working. When someone despicable enters a hospitality venue and makes other patrons uncomfortable, it may be necessary to request the person leave or make the person otherwise feel "unwelcome" and that person could make his/her own decision to stay/go.
Keep in mind that Germans failed to confront those gathering intellectuals, artists, and jews and sending them to internment camps. Many thought what was going on was not right, but were afraid to speak up. This has been repeated elsewhere (e.g., U.S., Cambodia).
If you are not part of the solution, you are a part of the problem.
1
Sanders stopped being the injured party in this when she took to Twitter and told the world what had happened.
Sanders directed all the worst forms of abuse, that the internet can trigger Trump supporters to do. Then Trump tweeted and reinforced that those who had offended would pay for daring to slight Sanders.
When you read of what has since happened to The Red Hen, remember this was an intentional very petty way to exact revenge.
4
Russ, I can see the day when an Alt-Right will take a gun to a peaceful protester. I don't see the day of a progressive pulling a gun on an Alt-Right. trump has already warned Senator Maxine Walters to watch out. trump is appealing to his base's worst instincts.
4
I think progressives have been using the courts and the legal system as their 'guns' for some time now.
What a snore. The problem isn't what the restaurant did or didn't do. It's that intellectually bankrupt pundits choose to write (and talk) about it. "Oh, I'm horrified." "Oh, it's about time." Who cares? This sort of maundering analysis is like pointing with dismay at a flooded herb garden while the tsunami is taking out a city.
1
One argument keeps coming up whenever the "wedding cake": controversy is discussed: "Should a Jewish bakery be required to provide a Nazi cake?" (variation: "Should a black-owned bakery have to bake a cake for the KKK?") Not even pertinent enough to be specious in that case, unless you equate sexuality with membership in a hate group, it's actually relevant in Red Hen vs. Huckabee-Sanders. Mrs. Sanders wasn't being personally discriminated against; the ideology she represents, which many find abhorrent (and indeed against their religious beliefs, since the Supreme Court deciding for the wedding cake baker was seen as a triumph for religious freedom), was the issue here.
You may also notice no one has suggested "She could always go somewhere else"--another thing you keep reading and hearing regarding the "wedding cake" controversy (which you wouldn't dare have said about, say, the two men who got Starbucks into so much trouble a while back; if Mrs. Sanders had been black, the Red Hen would be out of business now).
2
It is indeed unfortunate that Sarah, her husband, and the dinner party had to be subjected to, in my view, being asked to leave without real due cause. At least the owner made the request in a discrete manner. Which cannot be said for Sarah, who immediately went on a Twitter rampage afterwards, as well as her knucklehead boss!
Me? If I was the restaurant owner? I woulda just advised the party that I was invoking a new tariff and their meals just jumped 30% in cost! And, while not profiling, I would have asked for proof of citizenship, preferring to see their birth certificates, for security purposes. And I would have requested DNA samples to make a check that no one in the party had any connections to terrorist countries, again for security reasons. And I would have separated them until such time as their security clearance and citizenship could be confirmed. But I never would hsve been so crass as to ask them to leave. Bon appétit!
4
Ross Douthat:
The true "victims" are the babies (from THREE MONTHS old & up!) Add into that violated group, the toddlers, children and young pre teens & teens. Sarah Huckabee Sanders remains quite okay with the CHILD ABUSE all of them continue to suffer. Sarah Huckabee Sanders remains quite okay with the torment the parents continue to suffer.
There is no rationale for anyone in his/her right mind & conscience to suggest that Sarah Huckabee Sanders was disrespected by the owner and staff of The Red Hen. She agreed to leave and was charged zero for her drinks & appetizer. None of her seven or eight "friends" were charged a penny.
If I had walked into The Red Hen and saw Sarah Huckabee Sanders enjoying her drinks etc along with her seven or eight "friends," I would have immediately vacated the premises. Most likely, I would have lost all appetite as well. I know with certainty that I'd head straight home due to the trauma of being reminded of her mendacity, and cold-blooded support of the Kidnapper- in-Chief's cruelty of innocent children.
Sarah Huckabee Sanders is a moral disgrace, and a poor excuse for an American. Instead of tweeting and whining (as her "leader does 24/7") she should confess, repent & seek redemption.
Sarah Huckabee Sanders is a passenger in the bank robber's getaway vehicle. She is equally guilty of engaging in immoral, exceptionally cruel, and unlawful activity. Sarah Huckabee Sanders was publicly held accountable by The Red Hen.
Karma.
10
She was not being judged by her sex or race or religion or ethnicity etc.....but by the content of her character....I am fine with that. Does she have a food taster to detect poison or something? If not I would not eat out in public if I were her.
4
Like usual, this is not a fair fight. The right wing has no standard of civility, so they cannot be shamed for anything they do. Liberals have standards, and when somebody - even an obscure businessman - crosses the line and treats a proven liar poorly, a false equivalency immediately is applied.
I have personally gotten past blaming everything on Trump. He's a pathetic excuse for a human being, and we are always going to have his type around. But, people don't have to vote for him, support him or forgive him for whatever he does in their name. It's them that should get 99% of the blame. He's just their agent for a bigoted, uninformed ignorance, and immoral hypocrisy.
It's an embarrassment to live in a country that would elect such a loathsome person to the Presidency - but our countrymen and women did it.
This was a missed opportunity for Miss Wilkinson to show her employees what real hospitality is all about.
She apparently has other fish to fry!
3
Some folks on the extreme left show great hypocrisy--these same Red Hen folks would be SO angry if they were asked to leave a restaurant because of their sexual preference.
As a self-proclaimed moderate, I disdain people who yell "freedom, diversity, inclusion," then show that their definition of freedom only applies to the like-minded.
Kinda reminds me of Robespierre before and after he got into power.
2
I disagree. People would be justifiably angry if asked to leave a restaurant due to sexual preference. The broken part of your argument is that LGBT people are not calling for the end of the straight lifestyle, they just want to be able to live their own lifestyle free of harassment. Sanders and her ilk are calling for the end of the LGBT lifestyle. Have you seen the hateful protest signs outside the Red Hen? I agree people should be more reasonable overall. But Sanders represents hate and intolerance and I'm not surprised she was kicked out. The restaurant owner will now have to live with this decision, however. I can see the Red Hen going out of business due to hateful protesters. I believe I would have thought twice before kicking Sanders out given the atmosphere lately. When you do these things you open yourself up to all kinds of trouble.
Knowing that Sarah "homely man in bad wig" Sanders comes from a supposedly christian family, her behavior is pathetic.
People in this great nation better get out in waves to vote Democratic to stop this Trump era of bad manners, selfishness, and rich kids first.
3
With the "homely man in a bad wig" personal attack, you have just cemented the resolve of Trump supporters.
I dislike Trump and his followers, especially after being told by a neighbor in my local coffee shop that "Trump is a Godly man". I'm applying my energy in what I can do, short of making personal attacks (as tempting as it is, I admit, to make them).
1
Dear Fig - I wish you hadn't personally insulted her.
This has nothing to do with her physical appearance or your opinion of it.
Ah, I was wondering when someone would stoop to insulting her physical appearance. Congratulations. The Tolerant Non-Judgemental Left strikes again!
Mr. Douthat uses this language "if you think that the restaurant owner committed an obnoxious breach of the basic bipartisan civility that prevents our empire from becoming 1990s Yugoslavia" as if we haven't already lost bipartisan civility! Trump makes no attempt to be civil, and SH Sanders repeats his lies and obscenely uncivil words like some kind of worshipful acolyte.
Just wish Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan were asked--courteously, of course--to leave public establishments for their determination to overwhelm our institutions with partisan appointments made by a totally ignorant president.
1
Those on the right seem to think there are enough votes just amongst Trump supporters to get him re-elected in 2020. There was not enough Trump support to get him elected in 2016 without the help of Comey, Russia, Johnson, Weld and Stein.
Even with all that help he got in 2016 he still needed to draw to an inside straight to get enough electoral college votes to win the election. He has done nothing since the election but drive more and more voters away. He has zero chance of ever being elected President again, unless the Russians and the Republicans can find some way to work together to rig the next election.
We are not the Resistance. Trump and his supporters are.
1
The Trump administration governs as if the only people that matter are the ones that live in Alabama, South Carolina, Arkansas, etc. Maybe they should relocate the White House to Birmingham or Mobile. Then they could enjoy a nice dinner out.
2
"What this example implies for anti-Trump activists is not that they should abandon protest politics, but that they should do everything possible to keep those protests focused directly on the places where the administration’s policies look worst — meaning at this moment, obviously, the separation of children from their families along the border."
I agree that the children being separated is the worst, first priority to protest smartly. However, one issue is that there is too much to protest, too much going on to get your head around. GOP Congress, Trump, SCOTUS -- too many creepy, oligarchy decisions handed down that hurt people and set up the wealthy. Under this barrage, sometimes people just protest the only way that is offered. Weighted down by the barrage, the Red Hen owner protested. Smart or not, I'd side with action rather than elegance. The way I see it, The oligarch foot soldier class wants to preach about effective protest to hinder protest.
1
I see this as a liberal Democratic return Tweet. What's good for the goose . . .
1
Okay, how about this: Sarah Sanders comes to my (sadly hypothetical) restaurant. I will serve her, but not utter a word until the check arrives, and I say “Do not tip me. I don’t want your money.”
Combine that with public protest.
But Ross, the actions of the Red Hen owner and the Mexican restaurant diners who heckled Nielson were not planned strategically by any 2018 equivalent of Martin King or Bayard Rustin. They were the spontaneous acts of individual citizens fed up to their eyeballs with Trump's lies and reprehensible conduct. Personally, I applaud them. Trump's 40 or 45 percent seem wedded to him like ventriloquists' dummies anyway. The pathway to sending them packing lies in massive turnout of the anti-Trump majority.
Why should Trump acolytes not be publicly shamed? they have no shame to support taking health care away from people, separating children from parents, showering the rich and corporations with unwarranted tax breaks, denying Dreamers path to citizenship, etc. etc.
I oppose any physical intimidation or harassment but if I see Mr. Pruitt or any other Trump official in public place, I should not feel limited in openly expressing my disagreement to their actions or in making them feel uncomfortable. They have no shame and make me feel uncomfortable everyday
As a former moderate Republican, I absolutely could not vote for Trump because he was not a decent person. Period.
Fast forward 18 months, I abhor him and his entire administration. Ms Sanders was dining as a private citizen. She should have been served. Surely our country is above asking for political affiliations to conduct our daily lives. Again- decency.
3
Sean Spicer was visibly uncomfortable for the stories he had to spin and is therefore something of a tragic character.
Sara Sanders is completely unashamed of the lies she tells and deserves some vitriol.
But yes, I don't think a restaurant is the right venue for expressing this vitriol.
2
I don't think she is unashamed. Look at her bizarre facial expressions. I think she has to force herself to do this (but maybe I'm wrong).
1
You know Ross, it looks pretty bad for the DHS secretary to enforce draconian policies on Mexican and other immigrant families at the US/Mexico border and then go eat a Mexican restaurant in DC. To me it says something about the level of moral compartmentalization that the DHS secretary engages in.
1
Yeah, enforcing the law and eating at the restaurant of your choice - pretty insane behavior.
1
Mr. Douthat has performed a real public service with this column. We who deplore Trumpism would do well to heed him.
Douthat wrote that Martin Luther King, Jr. "chose his disturbances strategically, which is why the images [featured] activists sitting peacefully in lunch counters or facing down attack dogs." In other words: BE "incivil"--but be strategic about it. And don't fall for right-wing traps.
Why did Nielsen and Miller choose Mexican restaurants? Why did Huckabee Sanders find an obscure liberal restaurant in a small liberal town? Why did Pam Bondi go to the Mr. Rogers movie? Because they knew folks who care about crying, frightened children would be there and would react with (appropriate!) anger.
It was an excuse to don the Cloak of Wounded Right-Wing Victimhood. They positioned us as the mean ones, and themselves as humble public servants just trying to enjoy a quiet evening.
And now we are talking about civility in the age of the least civil president in our history, instead of Muslims being banned and children being caged.
Let's not hand them any more PR victories. Be uncivil about uncivil policies, by all means. But let's be smarter about it going forward.
4
The Red Hen restaurant owner ... Rep. Waters ... and others ... realize that we have a highly dangerous man in the White House, along with his horridly corrupt administration and criminal party that is aiding & abetting his attempts to destroy our democracy.
We should all be up in arms and call out this effort to tear down the U.S. at every opportunity. To do less is to help it succeed.
Ross was it absolutely necessary for you to write about this?
Why don't you write another column about how awful Pope Francis is. And by the way to all people who mentioned civility in their comments: civility is dead and democracy is very ill.
You say "The central political problem for the Resistance, at the moment, is that they see the Trump administration as self-evidently authoritarian and perhaps even trending Nazi-ward, while much of the country dislikes Trump and opposes many of his policies but just doesn’t see that same scale of existential danger."
Here's the problem, Ross - Republicans have been very successful in assailing Democrats, minorities, and long-standing allies using inappropriate hate speech. Being fully aware of Republicans' mean-spirited smears over the years, I was still taken aback when Joe Wilson of South Carolina yelled "you lie" to Obama during his first state of the union address. Does that seem alright to you, Ross? Why are you not spending your time in the pulpit warning the American people that the existential danger the Republicans pose to the constitution and our way of life is very real and is growing. Shame on you for your false equivalence.
3
For nearly fifty years now, here in the deep south, my sentiments have been conflicted by seeing this sign at the entrance...
"The management reserves the right to refuse service to anyone"
and now, finally, I can applaud it, even embrace it.
Understanding it's original motive, this is astounding.
Sure, it's questionable. I wish it had been Scott Pruitt.
But at least nobody dragged up a fire-hose or unleashed the dogs.
4
Every columninst, every journalist, every democratic activist should receive the same treatment that is being given to public officials in private settings. Wait till you start getting harassed because of your failures to protect the unborn (which is arguably more important than allowing illegal aliens into our country). When you children are taunted or harassed I wonder if you will call for political fights to be fought in political forums. If anything goes, anywhere, understand the Right will learn this lesson eventually. Once learned, we will likely surpass the Left in utilizing it in an effective manner.To paraphrase the president "be careful of what you ask for".
2
This woman is a sneering liar and a fake Christian. If there is a god, he would smite her and all Trump apologists for their crimes. I personally don't think it's a good idea to gather a crowd to protest these people, as Ms. Waters insinuated. A crowd can quickly get out of control and become a mob. But I have not problem calling them liars and shaming them to their faces if I have the misfortune to see them anywhere. And even better, I am refusing to allow Trump supporters in my personal sphere to preach their hate to me. I have cut them out of my life after much agonizing. Maybe we should all do that. Cut the toxic people off from the rest of us. Sure their hatred and racism will grow stronger in isolation, but we need to save the whole body from the gangrenous limb.
Trump is a cartoon character, who keeps rebounding.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
So, I think the only way to beat him is with actions.
Words, alone have not made a dent in Trump's armor.
Action speaks louder than words with Trump and Trumpsters.
Democrats must come up with a cast of characters and action.
I suggest that Democrats hold contests to find better ideas
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
1
Loved the title and the photo of Ms Huckabee Sanders in a red dress, entering a room with blue doors...
You're workin' this too hard, Ross. You owe me seven and a half minutes.
1
SHS ate her entire meal, then had it (and her friends' meals) comped. SHS was called aside by the Red Hen owner and privately asked to leave. She was NOT denied her dining choice, NOR was she frog-marched out. First and foremost and especially in the NYTimes, let's get the facts straight! The Red Hen owner acted judiciously, after polling her employees.
2
Comparing these restaurant owners to either the purveyors and defenders of child abuse or to bigoted business owners is itself an abomination.
2
Racist hate mongers need to be taught that their beliefs do not warrant civility. Civility is a benefit bestowed on those that promote the common good, a condition conservatives eschew. This concept is beyond Ross.
2
Do you not see the irony in being chastised for "incivility" by people who fetishize violence against illegal immigrants, mosques, synagogues, even black athletes who take a knee??
8
How can you make such ridiculous claims? "fetishize violence against illegal immigrants, mosques, synagogues, even black athletes who take a knee??" Please, please provide a quote of someone in the Trump administration advocating violence against synogogues, mosques or athletes. Please?
No different than bakers refusing to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple
2
Shouldn't restaurants have to put a sign on the door saying which groups they refuse to serve? We don't serve gays. We don't serve blacks. We don't serve Jews. We don't serve Trump supporters. We don't serve Catholics. Etc. And haven't we been down this road before?
2
If anything is taken from this piece by Mr. Douthat it is the example he cites of the civil rights movement. The so called "Resistance" needs to get organized to plan the kinds of actions that demonstrate the evil and absurdity of the Trump tribe, not make them into victims who will fit the Trumpist populist myth of a burdened white "majority" who are the "true Americans". Ya gotta make 'em look as bad as they are. When the main result is for you to feel good and righteous because you took some kind of action of "resistance" is as stupid as the Trump tribe. That's exactly what they are up to.
2
good idea, RMayer -- everyone who is resisting this administration needs to be ready for a possible encounter - especially around DC where they are much more likely to be.
"But I do want to live in a country where people feel comfortable exercising moral convictions in the way they run their businesses — whether they’re Christian bakers and florists or the Red Hen’s progressive proprietor."
So, you are OK with bakers saying no to baking gay wedding cakes? Sycophants are not a protected class.
2
Well. We have seen them obstruct and win. We have seen them attack abortion clinics and win. So perhaps their methods work. You cannot have it both ways and it is your responsibility and not ours to get rid off the monster your politics put in the White House and in Congress.
An discussion with Huckabee which involved language suitable for a family newspaper is nothing compared with the daily acts of Trump and his goons. All those people have choices. They chose to step into the Hate House and stay there to promote the openly racist, misogynist and chauvinist acts of the Trump cabal. They proudly separate mothers and children and transport them thousands of miles away to places not known to the parents. What's a comparable response that would match Trumps treatment of other people minor children? I find that tossing Huckabee out of a restaurant is minor. This President is a bully and he must be bullied by any means available. By proxy is good!
Hey Ross:
You’re a good Catholic right?
Say you owned a restaurant or other retail business.
Ian Paisley walks in, back in the day at the height of his political power based on his campaign of anti-Catholic bigotry, which had resulted in, among other things, violence, including murder, of Catholics living in N. Ireland simply because they were Catholic.
Would you politely ask Mr. Paisley to leave based on moral principles our not?
3
Mobs don't have ethics. Mobs are not self-aware. Mobs don't understand irony. Show this article to a mob that is intent on depriving you of your privacy, property or life itself and see how far you get. Mobs have always been with us, and social media have weaponized them like never before. Consider what Joseph Goebbels might have done with Twitter and Facebook. Leftist mobs should be reminded that what goes around comes around but, being a mob, they are incapable of learning.
4
you do not know she is a good mother or a kind person. there are some people still that were and did live under NAZI rule. l saw a large contingent of NAZI type outfits on that college protest where our president said some of them are nice. last year. so the accusation is apt.
2
There's a big difference, Ross, between the highest Court in this nation handing over the right to bigotly refuse service to anyone on "religious grounds" because some public official wanted to know exactly what those "religious grounds" were... and a bunch of powerless common folk telling the liar-by-proxy to hit the road because she has been sneering at distraught children in cages.
It is my understanding that "Masterpiece" was handed to the Bigot because said Bigot was "questioned" by a public official.
That OUTRAGED the Supreme Court.
How DARE anyone even ask QUESTIONS about a person's beliefs!?!
Well, I have news for you, Ross: Anyone spouting that they are doing anything because they are "religious" is now fair game.
Hate the gays because of Biblical reasons?
You will now be expected to quote chapter and verse.
You know, like Jeff Sessions did when he said he was going to rip babies out of their mother's arms.... because it was Biblical.
You'd best to brush up, sir, on your "chapters and verses".
Here's what you will be questioned on:
The Constitutionally inferior legal status of females
Why Paul says in Romans 7: 1-4 that men must marry men
Exactly where Heaven is
Exactly what the soul is
Since the Supreme Court refuses to define any of the terms used in religion, it will now fall to persons of religion to explain EXACTLY what they are talking about.
The Supreme Court was outraged that a public official dared to question "belief".
Well, get used to it, friend.
1
I totally despise the servile nature of Ms Huckabee, but her supporters' and fellow travellers' beliefs will be enhanced by the behaviour of the Red Hen's proprietor.
2
While I am no fan of Sarah Huckabee Sanders if I were a restaurant owner I would welcome her into my establishment. Certainly I could have standards like ‘no shoes, no shirt, no service’ but as long as she or any potential patron meets those minimal requirements I would serve her.
This issue reminds me of the baker who refused to bake a cake for a same sex wedding. When someone establishes a business open to the public he or she is supported by all of us taxpayers. We provide police, fire and emergency medical services. We maintain sidewalks, roads and public transportation. And just like restaurant owners bakers can have standards. They can refuse to decorate a cake with nazi symbols or pornography. But when a Neo-nazi walks in and orders a cake with flowers that says “Happy Birthday” they should bake it.
3
Nuance. It feels to me that the Red Hen owner did this for the "right reasons" and in the right way. Apparently, her staff felt and expressed discomfort. The owner polled them. They democratically elected to ask Sanders' party to dine elsewhere, which turned out to be across the street - not a wholesale inconvenience. The owner was discreet and polite - no scene created. She also comped the party several appetizer dishes already ordered and consumed. This doesn't sound like a brutal partisan act to me.
To me this sounds like conscience speaking - a commodity Sanders seems wholly deprived of.
And no, this isn't like not baking wedding cakes. If you need this explained, you probably are shortchanged in the conscience department too, or maybe just the brains division.
3
When Ross Douthat gets off his need to put ideological labels on everything, he can make a lot of sense. My personal sense of ethics right now says that all actions by Democrats and others opposed to Trump must be judged by the single standard of whether they hinder or promote the chances of a Democratic takeover of at least one house of congress in November. It requires data that are not presently available to make some of these calls, but my intuition is that obscenity and incivility are presently counter productive. As much as Trump and his minions deserve to be insulted harassed, if it is not going to help, don't do it.
2
Republicans complain about the lack of civility when restaurant owner's refuse to serve Sarah Sanders, an action which ruins an evening out for a couple of people. What about the lack of civility they exercised when refusing to approve Merrick Garland's Supreme Court nomination, an action which has already affected the course of American history.
1
There's a rough equivalence between a restaurant owner's refusal to serve Sarah Huckabee Sanders and a baker's decision to refuse to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple. While we on the left decried the baker's decision to refuse service, some applaud the Red Hen restaurant owner for refusing Sanders service. It would seem to me that in both cases, where an individual expects to make a living serving the public, that service should apply to anyone who walks in the door. We should express our political beliefs outside of our business practices. Otherwise the choice of venue for any party or meal would require research into the beliefs of the proprietor.
1
One of the most important things in Democracy is respect for others opinions. This kind of aggressive behaviors go against this important principle, when respect for the opponent is broken coexistence turns to the wrong direction.
Here is a important advantage of the Trump presidency - his “unique mix of mendacity and demagogy,” is obvious. Glaringly obvious. Blatantly obvious. No mistaking it obvious. However the important disadvantage of the Trump presidency is the impulse to believe “mendacity and demagoguery” are facets of the Donald alone. It is a tragic part of our recent history that the two Bush presidents lied extremely well. Their Yale polish and sophistication allowed them to do so with relative impunity. Both pursued disastrous wars. Both have made the Supreme Court the servant of big business. The last one crashed the worlds’ economies. However because they were so “nice” and “respectable”, they were able to inflict massive damage on this nation. The boorish Trump is preferable - the mess he is making is obvious and will be remedied.
Well gosh, isn't she now getting Secret Service protection? Doesn't that mean she's being thought of as a target? As such, wouldn't it be entirely logical for any business to not allow her into their premises as they cannot guarantee her safety or the safety of their other patrons?
3
I just don't see this as a winning hand for the left, be civil and resist but this is wrong IMO. Serve her a meal, you don't have to be extra pleasant about it but to deny her entry is to give the right wing media more meat to chew on at a time when you need to focus on getting better people elected in November.
2
I can see all sides of this argument, and I know there is no "right" answer. But what I think we are seeing is the left, or progressives, or just folks who are not on board with the administration, having limited levers of power. Republicans (or Trumpians) hold both houses, the presidency, most governorships and, apparently, now the supreme court. They have a 24 hour propaganda network with millions of viewers. And all indications are that the truth, facts, rationality, etc. are meaningless to change the hearts of the Trump base. The administration and its enablers are immune to shaming or intellectual arguments. Can you blame folks from celebrating these small instances of resistance?
5
I might have missed it, but I don't recall any conservative outrage when candidate Trump urged audiences to "rough up" protesters, or "Get him otta here!" or slyly suggest that some true believer might apply "a second amendment solution" to the vexing problem of Clinton's ("crooked Hillary")candidacy. If past behavior is any guide, conservative pundits only start to beat the civility drums when the opposition does not conform to their hypocritical standards.
5
I probably agree with more of this than I disagree with, which doesn't happen often but seems to be happening more.
However, none of the people shunned look like victims. And Mike Huckabee's defense of his daughter was ludicrous, especially the recounting of the subsequent protests--such an obvious lie it's barely been repeated.
Commentators insisting they've always treated everyone with kindness and courtesy, just hysterical.
3
I always believe in taking the 'high ground" rather than the "low ground", even if it means biting my teeth and bracing myself a bit...just to show that I'm NOT who they are. Frankly, I'm better than that! And if I can civilly take your money in a free and open business transaction in the true spirit of "capitalism" as you so vehemently support, then all the better!
Just don't expect any "special treatment" or to be treated like "royalty".
1
You write: "To be clear, I don’t particularly want to live in a world of conservative and liberal restaurants, where I’m frog-marched out of my local artisanal coffee shop because the owner hates my column and doesn’t want his baristas to sully their hands by serving me" True. I don't want to live in such a world either. But, The Supreme Court has told me that it I must live in a world where a COLORADO CAKE MAKER cannot be made to bake a cake for a couple who is gay even though we the people give him his license to operate a business. Why is it then that the baker gets to express his conscience but the chef at The Red Hen is called 'uncivil' if he does so. Both are uncivil. So far one has conservative power behind his incivility whereas the other does not.
1
Sorry, Ross Douthat. This issue needs very few words and it's easy. Courteous public demeanor trumps ideology. One might even say that Christianity demands it. Enough said.
1
Mr. Douthat: By using Trumpy words like "bigly," you magnify Trump, however satirical your intent. I do agree with your thesis here, though. (A sign of the times is that I find myself actually agreeing with Ross Douthat now and then. On the other hand, maybe it's Mr. D. who agrees with me occasionally.)
2
I agree with the premise of the article. That what these protesters are doing is morally defensible and right, but also that there is a different tactical consideration in which they may or may not be politically smart. And I also agree that it depends on the situation, the person being shunned, and the topic for which they are being called out. I believe that Nielson and Sanders are appropriate candidates for this backlash and that the child separation policy (and these two individuals' lying about it) warrant the outrage and the response. I also believe that the pundits who are upset at these actions are missing the point and glossing over the horror that this policy is, understating just how outrageous and anti-American and ahistoric this administration is being. These are not normal times! This is not politics, this is a moral imperative. The individuals who are key administration supporters, defenders, enablers of this horrible, cruel policy deserve to be held accountable for their personal decisions. For their actions, not their politics. None of them should be able to get a job after this.
While two wrongs obviously don't make a right, it's absolutely shameful for anyone attached to, sympathetic to, or even apathetic towards this administration to complain about civility. Were it not for outright lies, personal insults and intentionally inflammatory rhetoric these people would have nothing to say all day long, and they deign to lecture the rest of us about treating people with respect.
1
Again Douthat, ever the good Republican Party mouthpiece, tells the Left how to act. Don't use you outside voices, always be polite and do not, ever, use names that hurt Republicans feelings. Somehow he manages, with a straight face, to tell progressives that loudly calling out Republicans on their anti-American and morally indefensible behavior is worse than a "president" who calls for Democrats, immigrants and people of color to be jailed, beaten or even killed. Some of his followers have heeded his call, attacking "the other" verbally and physically, even killing them with no condemnation from the President, the party or Douthat. I eagerly await the day he grows a conscience and condemns his Party and President for intentionally bringing the country to this low point.
2
Yeah, except he wasn't. He kind of rooted for the Red Hen and thought Sanders deserved it. But he worries it will backfire. I think that's reasonable. It was a nuanced article.
3
How is this any different than when a restaurant/bakery in Redford, VA. refused to serve Vice President Joe Biden?
3
Public shaming actually has the psychological effect of leaving the shamed person feeling queezy and ostracized, even while feeling angry and determined. It actually has the longer footprint in their psyche. We haven’t as a country experienced that in so long, more than half a century, that we’ve forgotten what it feels like. Keep shaming them. They know deep down they deserve it.
3
I lean far left on most issues and every day I am horrified anew that Trump is the president.
But kicking someone out of a restaurant is just wrong. She was there in her capacity as a private citizen. Basic civility should still be observed in our public spaces. The question of whether it was good or bad politically is irrelevant.
1
So lemmie get this straight. It’s ok for the right wing to physically attack perceived opponents at trump political rallies, with the support and encouragement of trump, and it’s ok to do a nighttime march in Virginia to support the confederate flag. But if the left turns out and vocally confronts those who buy into to trump’s march to fascism, instead of writing letters to the editor, then that’s bad.
Remember the republican congressmen ‘s public meetings about Obamacare, where they were vocally attacked and vilified? Those were lauded as the public objecting to heartless cuts in coverage of insurance. So what’s the difference between those and asking a well documented homophobe, Sanders, to leave a restaurant where several gay people worked? Incidentally, she publicized it, not the restaurant.
Republicans chose this type of behavior, and quite bluntly, it worked. So, why are you advocating responses which amount to NY Times columnists saying “tut, tut, tut?”
4
As a bookseller I cringe every time that someone asks for the new Newt Gingrich or Bill O’Reilly book, but I sell it to them with a smile, because it’s not my place to deny them their right to soften their minds. However, I was once confronted with someone who claimed that we didn’t carry any conservative writers and he was going to call the local radio stations and write the papers denouncing us as “left wing fascists”, so I walked him around the tables to show him the books by conservative authors, and even ones supposedly by the president himself. I also informed him that Bill O’Reilly was one of the top selling authors in our store. He got very angry, called me a name and left.
I recount this story because I want more than anything to tell how people badly written and misinformed most conservative writing is, but if you want to read it, I’ll sell it to you, because I’ve read them in order to be able to talk about them and recommend them. I don’t enjoy it, but it’s part of the job. Now, if Sarah Huckabee Sanders walked in looking for a book, I’d direct her to John Oliver’s “Marlon Bundo” and hope she would glen some measure of understanding and civility from it. Maybe a teaching moment is what she needs instead of exclusion, but I applaud the owner of the Red Hen for her standing up to hypocrisy in the way she saw fit. True American expression of rights.
1
Get back to me when you require an escort, are advised not to make eye contact with protesters, and still run the risk of being shot or firebombed when you enter a Planned Parenthood.
8
Mr. Douthat uses the multi-syllabled, Latinate words "falsehood" "mendacity" and "obfuscation," or the idioms "dodge and spin" to soft-pedal the immorality of Ms. Huckabee-Sander's job. She's a lying liar, who tells lies for her compulsively lying employer. The lies are told to hide the truth about her lying employer's actions. This is done to maintain his image and preserve his power to do what he wants with no regard for the good of the country, law, shared values or human empathy.
I don't know about the effectiveness of incivility as a tactic against Trumpism, but there's no question in my mind that it's a legitimate moral reaction.
1
Thank God for this restaurant owner who stood up to and called out this shameless Trump robot who makes money by SUPPORTING and DEFENDING the caging of poor despondent children who have been ripped away from their mothers and sent thousands of miles away with no contact.
What planet is this Sarah Sanders on?
She is a mother! How can she defend such unconscionable, indefensible acts of terror perpetrated on these young frightened children.
Listen up America! Never, EVER hesitate to refuse service or call out such horrific immoral behaviors by ANYone in this country.
So Sarah went away a bit embarrassed and hungry. A small price to pay for inflicting such pain on little children.
3
Ross Douthat is not exactly the person to be giving the left advice, since it is his fondest hope that they will fail. The notion that being civil to a president and a party whose MO is incivility, duplicity, exploitation and destruction will win votes from some amorphous class of Americans who apparently have trouble telling the difference between someone who is the essence of incivility and wants to destroy everything in his path and people who actually care about their fellow citizens and their country is manifestly stupid.
Michael Avenatti has said that 2020 Democrats will need a cage fighter with the ability to go 15 rounds with Trump, and that’s exactly what is needed. Playing nice with Republicans and Trump does not work.
By the way, if you go to Harvard and want to use Latin, you might get it right. Granted, “non servam” has passed into the lexicon of recognized Latin expressions, but it literally means “not a woman”. The correct forms for “I do not serve” or “I will not serve” are “non servo” and and “non servabo.” A smug display of erudition by using Latin can be an effective tool except when it reveals that you have never taken Latin and don’t know what you are talking about.
Also, Ross, a few examples where timely grabbing a torch rather than waiting until it’s too late when fighting an amoral, incompetent, corrupt, destructive, hate-filled ignoramus would be instructive.
3
This is how I know that the GOP is dead. They are now tagged with Trump and his hateful actions because they have enabled him with their silence.
I will always believe in the basic goodness of the American people, however, in their ability to ultimately do the right thing. They will not long tolerate the lowest common denominator Trump has cynically incited. They will not long suffer political fools and their siren song of social exclusion and bigotry.
The Republican party is dead. It is only a matter of time before it, too, is dumped in the dust bin with the rest of history's failed demagogueries.
I grew up in Virginia during the civil rights era. My extended family were avowed racists. But they never saw an inherent value in the Confederate flag, though they were proud of their Civil War heritage. They never screamed and threatened those with different social views in a vain attempt to intimidate and silence them. They never murdered those who disagreed with them, running down helpless individuals with their cars.
We must remain active in confronting and rebutting Trump's hatefulness and what it is doing to our democracy.
2
The owner of the Red Hen should be subject to anti-discrimination, public access law violation. There have been many false equivalencies drawn with Masterpiece Cake by some on both the left and right. In fact, a true equivalency would be if the Red Hen was willing to serve Sanders anything on their standard menu but only refused to custom cater a GOP/Trump event Sanders wanted to hire them for. What the Red Hen in fact did was the equivalent of Masterpiece Cake refusing to sell anything in the shop to a gay couple because the owner objected to their immoral lifestyle. Something that did not happen.
I support any business refusing custom work for an event they cannot morally/ethically support. I don't support a business refusing to serve a walk-in customer ordering from the standard offerings. I really wish people would understand the lack of equivalency, stop the hypocrisy, and condemn what the owner of the Red Hen did for the right reason.
4
REJ -- I've made the same point in an earlier post but it may be too subtle a distinction for the left-- or they don't care because it doesn't support their narrative.
2
Ralphie, it takes a person willing to look at the logic and truth of a situation, not just how well it fits their partisan politics. I'm so tired of the hypocrites and double-standards on both sides.
1
RD does not see that, "where people feel comfortable exercising moral convictions" is not morality when it means to exclude others from basic civil and human rights. This so called 'witness to sin' is trying to pass itself off as religious, but it is just tribalism, 'me-ism', and my privileged group. Monotheism from the beginning tried to show a unity in diversity, but this message is yet unheard in large swaths of America's religious leaders. Even RD, a thoughtful fellow, is a bit confused. He is writing a book where he thinks all these loving acts of the Pope are just symbolic gestures. RD feels the Pope is missing the real deal of excluding others because they are sinning. Strangely, the left is attempting to articulate a greater path of inclusion and diversity. Strange, because their inclusion of woman and people of color is actualized, supposedly, by excluding integrity to any of the institutions of western culture. Can you say intersectionality? In the all of religious discourse, whether it has God or not, inclusion of all is the unity in all of the diverse thinking to be had in religious discourse. In our system, if anyone can be excluded, then you can be excluded, and so your task is to make sure that no one is excluded. This effort is challenging because it asks to answer hard questions like what are rights, and in the case of abortion, what is a person. But difficult as it is, we must all make the attempt. But. Do not feed into Trump's anger. That will not help.
1
Mr. Douthat, thank you for a well written column. I seldom agree with what you say, but that's not the point. I read you column, and other columns written by your colleagues, to gain a better understanding of life outside of my liberal left hand corner of the world. I hope you column is read by more of my liberal tree hugging friends and neighbors. We all need to venture outside our bubble from time to time.
1
Ross, the people who speak out do not get together once a week to decide what to do in case they come across a Trump acolyte. Are you supposing everyone in the D.C. area prepare a "30 second pitch" and check it out with the DNC in case they see a political bigwig? When the opportunity presents itself, you do the best you can and from what I've read about, they have all been in the acceptable range.
1
Part of Sanders' response: "I always do my best to treat people, including those I disagree with, respectfully and will continue to do so." She lied again. Just ask White House reporter Jim Acosta, whom Sanders told, "I know it is hard for you to understand even short sentences." The fact is, everything - and I do mean everything - Trump or his minions say must be presumed to be a lie.
9
I also would like to avoid becoming a nation of Liberal and Conservative restaurants but the behavior of Trump and his cult followers is making that seem fairly trivial.
By the way, why did she want to eat at this restaurant? I saw the names of some of the dishes. Her daddy claims to be totally satisfied with grits and chicken-fried steak. Oh well, a very minor example of hypocrisy.
Yes, the questions of how to resist, how to show disapproval, how to shame Trump and his cult, without losing the upper moral and ethical ground, are not easily answered. But resist, disapprove and shame Trump and his cult, we must.
If I owned a business, could I muster the courage shown by the owner of the Red Hen to ask the vile and contemptible to leave my place of business? I hope I could. But it remains a hypothetical. Could the owner of the Red Hen have found a better way to express her disapproval of Sanders' daily defense of Administration lies and vileness? Perhaps, but that is also a hypothetical.
What is however certain, I support the action taken by the restaurant's owner. She did what I hope I would do.
Being marched out of a public venue says to all, you are not welcome among decent people.
And Sanders has no decency. You cannot be decent in your private life when you are indecent in your public life. The sheer act of defending contemptible lies and despicable behavior is the role of a terrible, morally damaged person. A decent person would not take the job. And,
"Sanders may be mildly less ridiculous than Sean Spicer," is much too kind to Sanders, who always looks disgusted, angry and defiant as she stands before the press to deliver her daily lies.
Regarding the farce of the press briefings. When Sanders dodges answering a question every reporter should then ask the same question. If 3, 5, or more reporters ask the question, Sanders would be humiliated.
6
The problem with pressuring Trump's representatives in this way is that they are the symptom not the problem. It's like going after the head of a drug cartel or terrorist organization--take him down and there are hundreds ready--who have been dreaming of the chance--to take his place. The problem is the underlying support for Trump and his craziness. THEY are the ones we need to focus on, and with polite firm civil debate.
1
I'm tired of the arguments that claim that every open criticism of the corrupt incivility of the Trump Administration is like throwing red meat to the jackals. The claim is that the criticism just makes them stronger.
But those Trump supporters would indeed support Trump even if, as he says, he killed someone on a main street of Manhattan.
Ms. Sanders knows in her heart that she is telling lies and, as he mouthpiece of the Administration of the most powerful country on Earth, she is intentionally obscuring the behavior of Government. She needs a public message that her behavior is not acceptable. If she is so callous that she doesn't quit, so be it. But that little ulcer brewing down inside is not going away.
The same is true of the rabid supporters who approve any cruelty or stupidity as long as it comes from Donald. Deep down they know better. Many of them voted for Trump just to "shake things up" and they WILL realize that there are a lot of us that really don't believe that utter cruelty to children, held up as a negotiating point, is just not acceptable. They need to see Trump minions and sycophants continue to drop out because they can't look at themselves in the mirror any more.
3
The history of civil disobedience in the face of discrimination and oppression is festooned with cautionary warnings about going too fast, asking for too much, not setting oneself on fire with one's own torch. Invariably, these warnings and cautions come from bystanders not subjected to the discrimination and oppression. I doubt Mr Douthat would be as sanguine if the travel ban was on Catholic journalists --- not all that far-fetched in the media hating Trump era --- or if he was now searching for the location of his detained children.
One particular part of this column struck me: "But [the Resistance] stands to lose, bigly, when it’s the people calling Trump a Nazi who seem to want a conflagration." Maybe it's the Nazi correlation alluded to here --- something we keep getting warned to stay away from --- but if you're going to use that correlation, then you must surely acknowledge that creating a conflagration in the face of Nazi tactics is not only desirable, it's mandatory. Or, when faced with religious, ethnic and racial bias creeping into the very basis of our country's ideals (see SCOTUS ruling on Muslim travel ban) should we simply try negotiating with the "Nazi's"? And if they aren't really Nazi's, just regular folk with some misguided ideas, then why use the corollary?
If bakers can choose their customers, restaurant owners can too. I'd advise Sarah Sanders the same way she advised the gay couple who were refused service --- eat somewhere else.
1
He-he-he...you said "polite society"...
Seriously. Stop excusing, explaining, sympathizing with Sanders because of the job.
There have been many administration spokespersons, and many stunningly dishonest and elusive administrations, but not one that I can think of has conducted him or herself with the contemptuous, demeaning, dismissive, paranoid mean-spiritedness of Sara Sanders.
This isn't about the job. This isn't about Trump. This is about Sanders personally and the excellent fit between her snotty, superior, yet frequently foolish and ill-informed manner, and the attitudes of Trump, McConnell, Miller, Ryan, and of course Susan Collins.
These people don't care, don't want to know what's happening in the world. They want what they want and they want us to know the will lie, cheat, come to blows to get it. And they know. because "polite society", we will never reciprocate in kind.
This is not about the challenges, the public feedback, the world situation at all. This about a bullheaded, boneheaded woman who believes all the really fine and important things she is destined to do in life are rudely interrupted by ignorant peasants demanding explanations for things that, duh, should be obvious to anyone. And you know what? They just never shut up.
As you point out, Sara Sanders was not shunned or victimized, she was treated to a demonstration of the power of Sincerely Held Beliefs in the marketplace, just like she wanted.
Lucky her. More to come.
2
The Red Hen has permanently destroyed its business. It will be closed before long as who who want to ever eat there now? America cannot suffer hate. We are a tolerant people. When a women and her family are turned away because of their political beliefs and then stalked to the restaurant across the street, there must be severe consequences. Stay tuned.
1
Are you kidding? I've sent a check to the Red Hen to pay for Sarah's cheese. I suspect that lots of other people are doing the same.
3
There are key differences between Sanders and gays in the bakery/flower shop.
1. Sanders is a public figure. More than that, every time she steps out of her house, 24-7-365, she represents the Trump Administration.
2. The gay couples were denied service because of who they are. Sanders was denied service because of what she does.
Also, there is something a bit hypocritical about people like Sanders choosing to eat in "farm-to-table" restaurants, or Pence going to Broadway shows. If your whole value system is a violent reaction against urban life and nontraditional folks, you should not seek to consume their products and services. I'm sure there was a Cracker Barrel or an Applebee's somewhere within the vicinity of the Red Hen. Sanders should have eaten there, and Pence should have stayed home an watched Christian media.
6
Your piece, as many others from the right (and some on the left) insist in categorizing this as a protest "on political identification". WRONG!!!
Nobody was harassed / asked to leave / etc. for more than a year. So why now? BECAUSE THEY ARE MISTREATING CHILDREN FOR POLITICAL POINTS. That is an aberration and deserves repudiation. And obviously the message was felt, because the "I'll punch back ten times harder" guy started to retract himself.
2
Since when has shooting the messenger been all of the rage? Only forever. We should also examine those who deliver the TV news. They are professional deliverers of lies as well, night after night reading their corporate scripts.
This is a story of Mob/Social Media Rule. The whole thing appears to be staged for the news media. The problem you get into with actions like these is that it will come full circle, and the Mob will turn on you. See the French Revolution.
2
This is a horribly slippery slope. Who is going to decide which member of the Trump administration deserves the full nasty treatment and who can be waived as only doing “a reasonable job” ? Are we going to have “resistance courts” on the sidewalks ?
If harassing members of a duly elected administration becomes acceptable in this country, how do you make sure that this doesn’t escalate ? You started with running them out of a restaurant, but how about throwing some ripe tomatoes and rotten eggs ? Tar and feathers ? Full-fledged lynching ? Remember, these things are easy to start and difficult to stop. In no time we’ll go to murder for an anonymous accusation of “blasphemy”. Seems far fetched ? Look at Pakistan. And remember that “the other side” will do exactly the same thing when a new president will be elected (not a moment too soon).
2
You lost me at “duly elected.”
3
Sorry, I forgot that Trump was not elected by American citizens - even ”deplorable ones”, but by Russians and Comey. What would the left do without them ?
What is the difference between Sarah Huckabee being refused service at a restaurant and a gay couple refused service for a wedding cake? They are virtually the same except that Conservatives laud one and protest the other. They are hypocrites. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
3
Sorry, but some things--admittedly not many--are black and white. If you're open to the public you are precisely that--you provide a service to all. Proprietors don't get to swoon because a homosexual (gasp!) wants to buy a cake. There is no principle in denying the customer one--only bigotry.
Conversely, proprietors don't get to break out in liberal shingles because Sarah Huckabee Sanders orders a salad. Admittedly her public position gives you lattitude--If you wish to tell her you're appalled by the policies she supports. by all means, do so politely. But if she stays for dinner, serve her and be professional about it.
Social media has encouraged the false and stupid notion that every opinion we have needs to be shared and expressed to the world as a whole. It doesn't. I prefer to live in a world where I never learn my baker is born-again, that tonight's chef is part of the Trump resistance, and my barista is woke.
3
After being bombarded, day after day, by Trump's vile insults of anyone who has the nerve to criticize him even once, there is something other-worldly hearing his sycophants call anyone uncivil.
9
Nobody seems to see that the only reason this has become an issue is because Sanders made it an issue. She did not “leave quietly “ as she has stated, indeed she ran to Twitter and Facebook for the sole purpose of making it a political issue. Still a liar.
4
When Sanders sneers and acts in a condescending ways to intelligent, well-respected members of the press corp I take it personally. Just recently she said to Jim Acosta "I know it’s hard for you to understand even short sentences", as she was explaining that separating children from their families was 'biblical' because it was 'the law'.
She has been extremely uncivil in her treatment of the press from day one with comments which ascribe nefarious motives to her questioners such as "I know you want to get some more TV time but that’s not what this is about,"
The White House press corp poses questions the public would like to know and functions as the public's representatives. She regularly demeans them.
The Red Hen's owner called her employees together an asked them what she should do. What she did reflected the consensus of all the workers there. No doubt they were unhappy with the administration's policies, specifically, the separating of immigrant children from their families, but I believe it was more than that, it was protesting the way Sanders herself behaves.
I am not commenting on whether asking her to leave, after she was in fact served, was the right or wrong thing to do, but make no mistake, it was an understandable reaction, because every time the public sees Sanders in action, she acts as if she knows everything and that the press who represents the public's wish to know what their elected officials are doing, are unintelligent, childish, fools.
6
"Management reserves the right to refuse service for any reason." SCOTUS just agreed re: wedding cakes. Mic drop.
2
Us black folk fought hard and long for our rights after being refused service everywhere for years. Now we have a black woman, an elected official to boot, demanding that we harass and refuse service to people because of differing political views. The hypocrisy is astounding! I'm embarrassed as a black person.
Sarah's got a tough job. Made no better now that Trump has called her a "fine" woman -- usually, the kiss of death to his appointees. Let her eat her chicken in peace wherever she wants.
If I had a dinner guest who kept insulting my friends and perhaps spit in one of the dishes, I would ask them to leave.
1
Really, we don't require Ross to tell us to be nice. If we weren't nice, we would have publicly shamed and shunned anyone involved in:
The Vince Foster murder theory to tarnish the Clintons
Every moment of George W. Bush's stolen presidency
The birther theory
Every racist meme denigrating Mr. Obama, his wife and their daughters
FoxNews, Sinclair and right wing radio
T shirts with obscene anti-Hillary messages
Pizzagate
So much more.
I don't know if it helps further the cause of anti-Trumpism to call his family members and advisers out publicly for their criminal misdeeds, their lack of moral core and, for heaven's sake, their horrifying, racist, anti-immigrant policies that jail babies. All I know is, if I ever see any of them, I'm publicly shaming them. Because they deserve it.
5
Amelia. Very astute thanks
1
Refusing to cook a meal for a Trumpista starts at home
2
Martin Luther King, Jr. "chose his disturbances strategically, which is why the images [featured] activists sitting peacefully in lunch counters or facing down attack dogs — rather than, say, turning Lurleen Wallace out of her favorite restaurant."
Ah. Now the question, "Why did would Trump staffers eat at Mexican restaurants last week?" has an answer.
"Go forth," said the Trump spin doctors, "and plant yourself in places where you are likely to be deplored." Thus did Kirstjen Nielsen and Stephen Miller; and Sarah Huckabee Sanders found a small liberal restaurant in a small liberal town, and Pam Bondi went to see a movie about Mr. Rogers (???), and the liberals bade them retreat, and social media scorned, and ...
... and now we are talking about civility in the age of the least civil president in our history, instead of Muslims being banned and children being caged.
It would take a strategist on the level of MLK, but his complete moral opposite, to dream up this scenario.
Has anyone seen Karl Rove lately?
3
Where have you been for the last 16 years? Did you likewise warn the tea party that their uncivil actions would blow up in their faces? No? Well, good, because they didn't. They brought us Trump. Good grief the hypocrisy of the right knows no bottom.
6
I’m not interested in how the privileged “protest.”
Hey Ross, it's weird but I can't find your column about the Radford, VA bakery "Crumb and Get It" refusing to serve Joe Biden. Could you point me to whatever you wrote about this event in 2012?
I'd like to understand to what extent your concerns are based on the political affiliation of the person being refused service.
I was able to find one small mention of the event in a Frank Bruni column. I was also able to find a National Review blog post from 2012 which relayed a story that the Secret Service bought a bunch of baked goods after the refusal and speculated that Biden deserved this for unethically charging the Secret Service rent to rent a space near his home. (I didn't check whether National Review is also upset about rent being charged at Mar-A-Lago, for golf carts, etc.)
4
Trump and his minions created this reality. I seem to recall a recent article... Blood Libel. They initiated this situation and now, there’s an equal but opposite reaction. So Maxine Waters does have a point. Moreover, I can’t even begin to number the thousands of businesses across the country with signs proclaiming “We have the right to refuse service to any customer.” Sarah Huckabee Sanders is a professional liar for a truly evil person.... I believe having the courage to confront wickedness and dishonesty is something to be applauded.
1
The column implies that there is something Trump protesters can do or not to to change the minds of the Trump cultists. Nothing will change their minds. There is no reason or logic to their thinking, and zero compassion for people less well off than they are. Since the Supreme Court held up a bigoted baker's right not to make a cake for a gay couple, it's logical a restaurant owner can do same action to patrons. However, the Trumpsters never see that what they disapprove of in others is OK for them. One of the greatest losses in this country is the loss of critical thinking by people who sanction all the destructions of Trump and his passive flunkies.
They will, I fully believe, reap the whirlwind.
The columnist also recommends some other, undefined method of protest to combat Trump, but doesn't spell out where or how.
Public shaming of Nazi collaborators in France took place after WWII. There should be a place for it here for those who put children in cages, defy the Constitution, denigrate the best science (and make policy accordingly,) and practice mendacity as public policy. I applaud the courage of the Red Hen owner to make probably the one in-person statement she will ever be able to deliver to the Bible-college graduate hypocrite representing Trump to the press and, thus, to the American people.
2
“When in Rome...do as the Romans do.”
1
Mark me down in the “red hen gave Trump campaign an in-kind donation” camp. And I’m gonna miss my McNuggets when McDonald’s becomes a republican restaurant. Maybe I should start learning how to pass?
"The central political problem for the Resistance, at the moment, is that they see the Trump administration as self-evidently authoritarian and perhaps even trending Nazi-ward, while much of the country dislikes Trump and opposes many of his policies but just doesn’t see that same scale of existential danger."
And so, Mr. Douthat, is the constant character assassination, terrorizing and scapegoating of targeted minority groups, in order to gin up a bigoted base, NOT "trending Nazi-ward"? Don't YOU see the "existential danger?"
1
If the Supreme Court considers it absolutely fine for retail establishments to refuse service to people because of their sexual orientation, then how is the owner of the Red Hen different for refusing to serve a person whose livelihood is based upon principles that the owner finds repugnant and could, indeed, result in her employees being discriminated against at other establishments?
I consider it very important to engage in public discourse in a civil manner. However, the Right abandoned that principle long ago. Ironically, those who dish it out feel horribly aggrieved when they experience even a modicum of what they engage in. I am really tired of hearing Rightists whine about being disrespected when they call people like me "feminazis" and threaten me with rape online.
In a perfect world, we would all be civil to each other. But right now, the forces of the Right are engaging in threats, bullying, and violence--both online and in public--against decent people who happen to disagree with them. Because we are Lefties we are supposed to be victims? I don't think so.
3
Thank you Ross. Strategy is something the right has in spades and the left just can’t seem to come up with.
He's nothing without his enablers. She's nothing without him.
4
The republican party and conservatives; the party of personal responsibility. That means consequences follow choices. But apparently not now ...?
The TrumpOP is the party of no personal responsibility. Just look at its leader. Inheirited wealth, serial divorcee, serial liar, abuser of bankruptcy laws, and abuser if the legal process. Not a shred of personal responsibilty.
But it is disingenuous to blame ALL Dems for this woman who owns her own resty and makes her own choices. Calling out the hypocrysy or this regime is entirely reasonalbe. When their leader is a man who insults women, immigrants, US citizens - who just happen to be brown - and the handicapped, to name a few — this false i dognation by the right is sophomoric claptrap.
It is true, however, that the Dems should not fall i to this maxine waters soleen centing nonsense. Not because its “wrong”, but because it tirns off voters. And what do the Dems want to do? Win votes or vent? Better decide quickly and get your people on he same page.
"deprive a Trump administration mouthpiece of an evening out in polite society"
Unfortunately, Trump and his mouthpiece(s) are depriving society of politeness.
Is it ok to deprive a gay couple a cake if you don't like gay folk? Well then, be prepared to be refused service because someone doesn't like you. Tit for tat.
I prefer the golden rule. Too bad that so many people invoke the golden rule for others, but not themselves.
1
To the best of my knowledge, not since Vietnam have people so openly started taking a stand. She used the only resource she had at hand to make a point to a public person. She didn't throw things at her or yell obsenaties...she sat at the front of the bus. Protest is democratic and we need more people like her to openly show their disdain for this consiousless administration and it's enablers. Politicians really hate it when we protest. Don't confuse this with the wedding cake issue. it is not the same. The baker wasn't protesting anything, he thinks if he serves a gay couple his soul will not enter heaven (lol). The staff of the Red Hen was protesting.
2
Your problem is that the resistance is likely to appear far more ugly, intolerant, authoritarian, and downright scary than Trump to people whose heads are not collectively stuck inside the resistance bubble.
I don’t conflate not serving Sanders with protest. She is the mouthpiece of an evil regime and the workers didn’t want to serve her. That is it. We can talk all we want about getting along with the opposite party despite our differences like in the old days, but the current GOP is led by an evil tyrant. Thus, it is truly hard to see how anyone who defends this racist and sexist administration can be seen as anything but racist and sexist. There is no room in polite society for Trumpism or its mouthpiece.
1
"That’s because Sanders, while no doubt a good mother and kind person in the private aspects of her life..."
Based on what, exactly? Because she is a white Christian.
Period. Great going, Ross. All Conservatives are really good, all liberals are horrible people. We get it. Hear it from Rush all the time.
2
I don't serve liars and hypocrites or those perpetuating evils like hate and repression. SHS is the very embodiment of all that Americans once despised and some of us still do.
2
meaning at this moment, obviously, the separation of children from their families along the border.
-------------
Not sure when this column was written, but President Trump has issued an order to keep families together. Also, many of the photos chosen were propaganda -- the crying child was only temporary; never was separated from mama, the biological father who stayed behind in his homeland reports.
It's important to report facts, not stir the pot with emotions. Otherwise, you get cheap violence after the dramatic performance art pieces are ramped up in public.
I speak out for inclusion, and for public service, especially when people are not in a working capacity and are eating with family. Serve them. Bake the cake. Sell the goods. Give them a hotel room, food and lodging. It's a business, not personal.
I don't want to live in an America where our open prejudices carry over to discriminating against white skin, or poorer children. If they have the money to pay and are not being disruptive, serve them what you advertise as offering. This is not the same as supporting open borders though, or endorsing practices that go against one's personal religion. It's the way businesses operate, though, in non-3rd world countries. Keep your hours open, to all, for the times, prices and services you offer. IT's a bedrock principle of business really. Ask a businessperson, Ross.
Midway--Oh, poor, poor white people. They suffer so from discrimination, and lack of opportunity. We should have a white history month. Oh wait, EVERY month is white history month. We should have quotas of white people for every institution. Oh wait, whites are the majority, and preferred in most cases. (They're smarter and more honest, too!) We should let a decent number of white people represent us, in government. Oh wait, 87% of Congress is white. Like they say, white people will be gone in just a few hundred years, and in the minority, in this country, by 2050. Can't come too soon, for me, although I won't be here to celebrate that milestone.
1
Sarah Sanders lies to the American people daily in her unfailing allegiance to our President. These are not benign lies, but malignant lies that are spreading cancerous growths to the very bone and brain of our republic.
She and her ilk should be publicly shamed for this every time they steps out in public to remind them that their behavior is unacceptable.
5
What would Charles and David Koch say? What would Jesus say?
Ditch the latter. Most folks, especially rabid right wing Evangelicals, care what Jesus would say. These folks just follow the money and the power.
So what would the Koch boys say? If they spoke the truth they would say the cake baker, the restaurant owner and the florid florist all have a right to pick and choose their customers. But if the Koch boys follow the majority of the Supreme Court after the Trumpian immigration case, then the would say that only the rich and powerful get to make the laws. The rest of us are just their profit generating servants.
Yesterday the Supreme Court stated that hatred, animus as they say, is fine and okay if you're an egotistical bigot. A week earlier they said that the same kind of feeling expressed against someone they like is wrong (hard to find a better example of hypocrisy). So would the Koch boys say that only the bigots they like are exempt from laws; but that anyone they dislike should be shut down for doing the same.
I wonder how much Americans for Koch Prosperity are paying protestors to keep the Red Hen shut down?
3
Mr. Douthat, all women are not alike, even the ones who are not at all likable.
How dare you compare Lurleen Wallace, a racist politician's wife, to Sarah Sanders, the highly talented (and misguided, to put it charitably) press secretary to the President of the United States of America.
You know what, Mr. doubt That? If cake bakers can refuse to serve customers, so can restaurateurs. So much for "conscience." I wouldn't want this terrible liar/abuser in my establishment, either, for fear of the stink rubbing off, and chasing my other customers away. And, this kind of thing is likely to happen again. People REALLY dislike Huckabee and the entire "administration," and wish to shun them. NOBODY has threatened Liar Huckabee, but she and her liar colleagues are such snowflakes that they can't take any amount of criticism, or rejection. So, this is just more corruption, and waste of taxpayer money, while telling more lies about it Horrible person, but birds of a feather flock together. There's a reason why severed tRump administration employees can't seem to find new jobs. The look on her face tell us that she knows she's wrong and highly disliked. I feel sorry for her children.
2
Reality check to those in need -
any former or present restaurant worker will tell you that a lot of waiters are gay, and a lot of line cooks are immigrants. (It is tough, phydicsl, low paying blue collar work, not for the Jarvankas or the huckabees of the world)
The hateful rhetoric that she defends defies description
What does huckabee THINK is a natural and human response from someone who is put in a position to cook and serve her?
She would be better served taking some cooking lessons
(Also, why no outrage from ross at the blatant ethics violation regarding her use of WH twitter to trash red hen?)
Ross, for you to write: "or the Red Hen’s progressive proprietor" is a bit silly & over reaching. Whether or not they are "progressive", they saw, like most of us with common sense, the right side of Sarah's face while "doing her job" defending this twisted administrations anti-American policies. Whether or not this restaurant owners are conservative or liberal doesn't bloody matter, what we know is that they were exercising their right not to serve someone whom is stupid or vapid enough to defend what's going on. Yes, two wrongs don't make a right, but sometimes one has to take a leap for what they think is right, especially when it comes to taking kids away from their families, when they're trying out of desperation to find a better life.
2
Mindless Trump and Sarah Sanders supporters, go viral; sending threats to the wrong person and to a Canadian Restaurant with a similar name. Its hard to deny that the US is slipping into a downward spiral of degeneration from a revered democratic republic to one enormous thoughtless hate-fest.
5
I do not think refusing service to an “other” is the right thing to do. It makes progressives look hypocritical. The Trump party uses these types of protests to illustarate and reinforce their own talking points of us aggfainst them. See how they think about “us”? See how they treat us? - Who would have thought this vile liar (Sarah Huckabee Sanders) would be pitied? Ugh... what a terrible thing.
the business owner, "capitalist", politely ("civilly") asked Ms. Sanders ("continual belligerent liar about child concentration camps") to go from the restaurant. This is now the law of the land. SCOTUS and POTUS both have made it clear that white women are not a protected class of citizen nor do they have the right to be served. This cold dish of karma should be served on each and every one of the GOP and administration since they show absolutely no empathy for anyone that "doesn't have theirs". If you're out, you're out. It's not how I like to live but it's a simple lesson to learn...yet, here we are. I hope that no one will serve them a meal in public in the future and, if so, a nice dollop of spittle mixed in will taste good to them.
Again, I start by identifying myself as not a citizen of your country, so...
From what I've read about the Red Hen incident, the owner was called by her staff, who were unhappy with Sanders' presence. The owner arrived at her restaurant, talked with the staff, & at their request, agreed to ask Sanders to leave. She asked Sanders to come away from the table, to privacy on the patio, & then asked her to leave, because of the policies Sanders advances & advocates.
Now, that doesn't seem to me to be "shaming". It seems to me to be more in the line of "shunning". "You are not someone with whom I want to be in contact, so I am politely separating myself from you."
I've been thinking for some time that that is the only way that *individuals* can deal with Trump et al that may have a positive impact. Voters can of course have a more direct effect, but Trump & co seem to be able to spin that to their advantage, every single time. One on one, though--again & again....
But quiet, dignified, refusal to engage, to associate, making obvious one's distaste for the man, the thralls, their vileness--perhaps that can have an affect.
Our federal government is what it is, but I was impressed by their basic "no comment" response to Trump's mockery of our Prime Minister several days ago. That's the kind of response I'm suggesting.
Maybe I'm all wet on this--maybe this is a typical WASP Canadian reaction. Feedback from those of you knowledgeable about your country will be most welcome.
2
I don't remember such from page hand wringing in 1999 when the owner of Doug's Fish Fry in Skaneatles NY refused to serve the Clintons in his restaurant. And they were the President and First Lady at the time. What's different?
3
So when do the signs go back up stating that business owners won't allow or serve _____(fill in the blank)?
That is actually what you and Maxine Waters are advocating. I remember seeing those signs and advocating this is not a game . I think it is a disgrace that those supposedly progressives who claim to be fighting for diversity are pushing this.
We fought long and hard to take those signs down and people who think it is progressive or liberal to put them back up are perfect examples of why I left the democratic party.
The extremists on the left have become mirror images of the extremists on the right. It is why so many Americans are disgusted with both.
The owner felt she could not serve Sanders because her religious beliefs would not allow her to serve a woman who is a pathological liar. This is no different than bakers refusing service to gay couples because of their "religious beliefs". two sides can play this game.
3
How do you have "no doubt" that Sarah Sanders is a good mother and a "kind" person in her private life....? Her public position on the inhumane policies that defy other peoples children the same rights as her own actually would not support your benign concessions to her
3
" ...if you think that the restaurant owner committed an obnoxious breach of the basic bipartisan civility that prevents our empire from becoming 1990s Yugoslavia, you probably think that what she did was basically an in-kind donation to the Trump re-election effort as well."
Get over it. Finally, we have progressives acting out like those "very fine" racists in Charlottesville. GUTI.
2
It must be said, that the people who have no problem stepping on the toes of, publicly criticizing and insulting their dissenters, and who support businesses discriminating based on their religious beliefs, seem to have pretty thin skins when it comes to them being called out in public.
Sounds a little "snowflaky" to me.
1
She's a professional propagandist. And obviously derives an extraordinary amount of pleasure from the role. That dead-eyed stare, the irritated school marm voice, and the overly smug self approval. She absolutely deserves every bit of shunning dished out, as do they ALL. Their delusional burst should be burst, and often. Seriously.
7
This woman is politely asked to leave a restaurant and forgoes some cheese.
A policy is implemented to take thousands of children from their parents and hold them without a plan.
She lies about the policy and many other policies repeatedly.
You write about the cheese and say little about her lying.
For evil to succeed, all it takes is for good people to do nothing.
Hamilton Noah, a former op ed contributor for the NYT who now writes full time for Univision’s Splinter - an English publication for woke millennials, just released a viral piece on how the left used violence in the early ‘70s when they were out of power.
For any older progressives like me, I suggest you go read this piece, which actually endorses leftist violence.
I’m of two minds on this. First, I totally support incivility. “Civility” is just short hand for the social norms that back up “civilization,” which is a toxically white and patriarchal concept from the Enlightenment. If you’re going to ask me to choose between our boring and oppressive white privileged capitalist society and the vibrant, diverse, and more tribal societies of the non-Western world, it’s a no-brainer. Give me a Maoist struggle session, a Sharia court, a panel of Title IX student and faculty judges at a college, or a social media mob any day of the week over what the slave holding founders cursed the world with. If there’s any doubt about the total bankruptcy of the latter, just look at today and yesterday’s court decisions. Just look at the election of Trump.
But on the other hand, Ross is kind of right. What’s missing from Hamilton Noah’s experience and that if the young commenters, is the historical context.
The left’s wave of bombings in 70-72 precipitated one of the largest and longest backlashes the world has ever seen.
Is today’s incivility just a precursor to this?
1
The Parkland protests were civil and organized. What did that get us? A company donating gun training to teachers. Most Republican representatives won't return calls or letters on the subject either. They won't hold town halls in left-leaning areas. My last in-person town hall was over three hours away in a decidedly conservative part of the district. You also might wonder why I share a representative with constituents 3 hours away when I live within walking distance of the local office.
Here's the thing Ross: Conservatives don't offer their opposition respect. Merrick Garland comes to mind. Why should anyone feel compelled to return disrespect with respect? I won't approach you with violence but I don't have to respect you.
By the way, the owner of the Red Hen dismissed Sanders with the consensus of the restaurant's staff, offered an explanation to Sanders, and even comped the table's appetizers. Sanders was not disrespected. Quite the opposite actually. Christian objectors aren't usually so polite in their refusal of service.
I seldom have agreed with Ross Douthat's positions as noted in his columns but I agree with the tone of today's column regarding the how and why of political protest. Douthat calls to mind the tactics of MLK with his well-chosen and well-performed protests against those who deny others their civil rights. Then he suggests that the protests against the Trump Administration "leaders" are well-deserved but the protests themselves require fine-tuning to better connect the protests to the actions or inactions of the Trumpists.
I think he's on to something here. Perhaps the Red Hen people could have simply lied to SHS by taking her order and then serving everyone else but her. When challenged for the apparent oversight they could have said they were out of the ingredients for that particular dish even if someone else in that party had ordered and received the same dish. Or they could have been extremely rude and snarky to her but very accommodating to everyone else in her party just as Sanders takes such gleefully evil pleasure doing to reporters at her "news" conferences.
If the subtlety of the unspoken protest was lost on Sanders, the owner could have explained that she was reaping what she had sown and perhaps SHS should learn to appreciate the talents of others who can write both long and short sentences.
Thanks, Ross!
1
This event in my opinion is nothing more than a distraction from the actions and injustices that the Trump administration is perpetrating on the constitution and we the American public on a daily basis.
We need to prioritize and focus on what is really important. The example I suggest is Robert Muller. You do not hear daily rants from him or anyone involved regarding his investigation. But rest assured that if there is criminal behavior he will uncover and reveal it. What is done with it (or not) by the Senate is a whole other topic.
So stay focused on getting out the vote so we can vote out the Republicans in the house and have a check on Trump until the following election when we can vote out Trump.
I don't believe the baker who refused to bake a cake for the wedding and the red hen owner refusing service to SHS are analagous situations.
The baker had a bake shop and he served anyone who came in. What he didn't want to do was create a cake specifically for a gay wedding. This is like an artist deciding he won't undertake a commission for a specific client vs selling their art work in a gallery where anyone can buy the artist's work.
The restaurant owner was wrong in refusing SHS service in her restaurant which is open to the public. If SHS had asked her to cater a party, however, she would have been perfectly within her rights to decline.
5
The restaurant owner employs kitchen employees who were appalled at SHS and party. THEY did not want to cook, clean, or serve her and asked the owner to stand for them. I stand with the owner for standing with her employees.
3
Would you stand with a restaurant owner who refused to serve the Obama's because the wait staff didn't like Obama?
It seems these debates over civility arise most often when it's a Democrat's behavior under discussion. Same old double-standard.
I don't condone outbursts directed at public officials in restaurants, ballparks, etc. But nor do I think it's fine for liberals to allow themselves to be the punching bags for the attacks that have been coming from the right-wingers for the past 10 years.
6
Good job using and framing that analogy to strategies and tactics from the civil rights era.
Also hope that whoever decides the Pulitzer for photography notices that photo of Sanders emerging to brief the press last week.
3
As much as the image of the President being frog marched, say, out of office is inspiring, attacking individual representatives of the administration in this way is merely rude, both to the representatives and others who may be in the public place while the attack is carried out. More organized protests as Ross suggests would be much more effective, say appearing at hearings about the corrupt behavior of cabinet members, engaging congresspeople about their support of the President, or even airplane banners condemning administration policies. Let the President own his rude, or inappropriate behavior, it's one of the few things he's good at.
1
I agree with you, but for different reasons.
Who is the great divider, who denigrates mercilessly anyone who opposes him and which bully has the bully pulpit? Who operates with vulgarity and without empathy? Who lies every day of his life? The answer: Donald Trump, President of the USA, the man at the top is setting the tone for these confrontations.
Unfortunately, people will be influenced to act in a like manner.
However, the rest of us should keep in mind the words of Jesus: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." I won't accost a public figure while he or she is eating because I wouldn't want that to happen to me if I were eating at a restaurant. I like my meals quiet and well digested. Everyone must eat. Let them do that necessary act in peace.
On the other hand, if I happened to be in a place where Trump appeared and he offered me his hand, I wouldn't take it because I don't generally associate with sleazebags. I'm not protesting; I'm just upholding my honor.
Trump enjoys spreading fear and hate. So, I end with a statement from another thinker: Confucius says, "If you hate, then you have already lost."
I ride with lovers, not haters. I walk with optimists, not fear-mongers. I want Trump's opposition to run against him with a welcoming smile, so people will have a bright option very unlike that terrible, terrifying human being.
2
I would think that Sarah Sanders would resign for her children. Her life expectancy is likely being shortened by all the stress and lying she is forced to undertake. Sean spicer knew that he was in trouble and left. He was not as good at lying as Sarah is. Maybe she learned this well enough from her father that she isn't as stressed by it.
2
Viktor Laszlo vs. Major Strasser is a good template for dealing with the odious Huckabee Sanders.
2
Now that the Republicans have won everything, the Presidency, House, Senate and the Supreme Court, through incivility, why must the Democrats not engage also? Incivility works. If you were to turn on the radio any time over the past thirty years and listen to AM talk shows, incivility towards Liberals was their bread and butter. All of this gave rise to the Tea Party, which was smartly branded kind of incivility. It then gave rise to the congressional Freedom Caucus which has had a legislative strangle hold on the country for several years. Am I as a Democrat concerned that incivility will set the cause back? No! Democrats have nowhere to go but up. Calling Obama an Islamic terrorist was a rallying cry for Republicans with tacit approval of elected officials. So as there was no shame then, I'm certainly not ashamed to call the President names.
1
"That’s because Sanders, while no doubt a good mother and kind person in the private aspects of her life, occupies a job that is inseparable from the aspect of the Trump presidency that even people who agree with some of his policy making should find deplorable — the communicative aspect, the rhetorical aspect, the aspect that deals with public truth and falsehood."
You have no doubt, why? Is it because she is a 'Christian' brought up by minister, who just happened to accuse Nancy of having MS-13 run her reelection? And she doesn't occupy a job, she was hired to do a job and the ability to lie, disassemble, sneer, insult and demean the press, individual journalist, all Democrats and any other person, group that she in inclined to (or Trump told her to) must have been part of the job requirements. And she honed that talent some where, why not at home? And by the way, she could resign. Last I heard you could still do that.
2
What is exceptionally hard for many of us to understand is how to fight incivility with civility. Trump is constantly uncivil, mean-spirited and mendacious, yet he pays no political price (and by many accounts actually gains support) for this behavior. What would an effective protest movement against this behavior look like?
9
At the Dear Leader's bidding, SHS's sneering, default posture of disdain and dismissiveness, coupled with the sheer tonnage of lies should have professional and private consequence. Public shaming seems a pinprick compared to the pandering cruelties and naked self dealing this gang is foisting on the country. If that's somehow fuel for the MAGA crowd, we can borrow SHS's seemingly favorite line about "That says more about them then it does about me."
3
Acting like a bunch of 2nd graders saying: "They started it first!" both sides of the political divide defend uncivil behavior. We all lose.
Unfortunately I do see Trump as a person who likes the idea of identifying businesses with politics. Example: there are Republican (Trump) hotels and resorts and there are un-American ones (everyone else).
To get into a shame-fest with anyone is only to degrade yourself. Nobody is sufficiently perfect to blame others - not even Trump.
2
We have corporations that are people with opinions why can’t we have people who object to corporate entities opinions. I don’t eat in Chick-fil-A or buy from hobby lobby.
3
Maxine Waters has put herself in a precarious position. If she is refused service in a restaurant, is it political or racist? While I have absolutely no respect for SHS, the refusal to serve her is uncivil and puts us on a slippery slope. If you disagree wit SCOTUS on the baker’s case, this is the LAST thing you should cheer, no matter what your feelings are.
Trump has set out to destroy our civil society. This act, and those called for by Maxine Waters are helping him.
6
Congresswoman, Maxine Waters, claimed Mr. Trump, our President, was a liar. He tweeted back, from the White House, that she had an extraordinary low I.Q. Well, it seems to me that she was right and he was wrong. There has been no one that I know of, after 85 years of living, who lies more than our President. His lies are more than well documented, and he lies again here, claiming Waters is advocating harm which she is not but he, on occasion, has. And there is no one who demeans, belittles, people who disagree with him more than our President. And there is no one that has tarnish our countries well-deserved leadership of the free world than him.
In this very troubling time of our republic, let us resolve to resist anything less than what Our Constitution demands of us: To “establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense,” and “promote the general Welfare” of all.
1
Strange, that the Times' right-wing columnists see fit to offer so much unsolicited advice to what they call "the left" -- meaning, apparently, liberals.
Of course, their own side no longer listens to them, but Ross and David (and Frank, as well, to be honest): do you really believe Democrats have forgotten your journeyman's service for the likes of Trump, McConnell and Ryan?
Perhaps they find in the Democratic party of Obama, Clinton, Pelosi and Schumer the inklings of the low-tax center-right religio-redemptive neighborhood renaissance, with corporate America bringing up the rear, Wall Street supplying the barbeque and the Salvation Army offering free lunches to the gawkers at the fences, to which they crave to offer their intellectual leadership?
Have these two ever considered that we, the unwashed, don't want to hear it?
Parents and children are being separated and locked up. Sanders is the willing spokesperson defending this evil. isn't "lock her up" a reasonable chant? I certainly would not want Sanders infesting my restaurant with her presence.
What kind of country have we become that no one is being locked up for the terrible crime the US government is committing against innocent children?
2
Sarah Huckabee Sanders has perfected living a life without shame.
She needs to be reminded of that.
Constantly.
5
Do not serve any Republican, do not sell to any Republican, do not patronize any Republican-Trump establishment.
Fight back.
2
Sarah sanders wasn’t asked to leave until the staff refused to cook for her based on their philosophical objections....Sound familiar?
1
" while Sanders may be mildly less ridiculous than Sean Spicer, it would be good for both the country and her immortal soul if she felt more social pressure to resign."
Perhaps it is you and the rest of the Opinion writers and the Editorial Board of the NYT's should resign. What you seem to forget is that 1/2 the country voted for Trump! He won a legal election. Whether one likes the man or not, since day one the NYT's has been antagonistic towards the man and his agenda.
An honest question: Had Hillary won, would you have done the same? Would the Republicans have tried to do as much damage to the country? I think not.
4
Your argument loses most validity when you claim that 1/2 the country voted for trump. Sadly we had low voter turnout, so that can't be statistically true. Secondly, HRC won many more votes from actual people. Trump won through 300,000 votes in questionable districts in 4 states. A reasonable person would governed knowing he had no mandate. We are not dealing with reason-- from trump or most supporters.
Oh, really? Evidence #1 - Mitch McConnell’s statement on day one of Obama’s presidency, “We want to make this a one term presidency”. The GOP are reduced to treasonous grifters with no interest in putting country first.
I don't know - a couple of days ago I had never heard of the Red Hen Restaurant. Now I probably couldn't get a table there. There is no amount of discomfort too great for the person who gets up and lies to our faces every single day about the nonsense her boss is trying to do - hurting actual people. Denying her service is the right thing to do and it makes good business sense. Also, don't forget who's idea it was to put this all over Twitter in the first place - the liar (and constant victim) in chief and his propagandist!
1
So very well said. Now, where is our MLK?
1
A lecture on civility from anyone in the Trump Administration is lead balloon territory. Trump has coarsened the national dialogue with his lies and his gutter accusations. Anyone who works for him, especially his primary public mouthpiece, Sarah Sanders, with her denying and deflecting, takes the risk of being called out for her behavior when she comes out from behind her protective podium.
But the primary issue is that putting babies in cages is not by the wildest surmise a 'policy'. It is a tragedy, a cruelty which must be protested and shouted down. Trump and his promoters must understand that there are limits to their cruel intentions, their racist fervor. Yelling national security and locking up tender age children will not stand.
2
Our president just made a test run of human rights abuses that played well with the base. He recently said that immigrants "infest" our country and should have no due process. Every time he does something cruel, it's worse than his previous efforts. We have a Supreme Court majority that is supine to his degradation of the rule of law and his overt hostility to Islam. We may have already passed the time to pick up the torches and pitch forks. But go ahead and lecture us about civility and strategy.
2
Sarah Sanders actually confuses me. She both publicly and personally believes it is just fine for those people who provide services to the public to deny those services for alleged religious reasons (and calls it “freedom of religion” rather than what it is: a right to discriminate) but when the owner of a private establishment refuses Sarah Sanders for her public bigotry and lies this is “un-civil”. Personally I would have served Sanders and her entourage and then refused too take her money and then explain to her that she would be welcome to return only after she treated all people in the manner that she herself would like too be treated. In other words “Ms. Sanders if you believe in the Bible (any version you choose) then why is it so hard to you to believe in the Golden Rule.”
1
The owner of the restaurant asked her 3 servers,gay men all. if they were willing to serve Sanders, and they said no. After all what's constitutional for cake bakers is also constitutonal for a restaurant.
2
I entered an Italian restaurant on the upper west side, took a stool, and the bartender walked out rather than serve me. Did I take it personally? No. That’s what happens when you turn the mob into the feds.
A Russian bartender began to speak loudly and angrily in Russian at a popular brunch spot: I got my French toast someplace else.
You count the costs when you know you are on the side of right.
Maybe Ms. Sanders should reconsider her allegiances.
This act simply allows a Bakery to be able to refuse to make a wedding cake for a gay couple or a restaurant to refuse to serve a person because of their ethnicity.
I can't understand why Liberals are so happy.
This runs counter to all the progress that we have made over the past 100 years!
3
Frankly for me its the issues and I don't care if you yell , curse , ask them to leave , I vote on the issues ....Honestly I am glad democrats are finally speaking out . As I write this the Supreme Court decision came out on Janus .we should have been impolite when McConnell stopped Obama submitting a Supreme Court nomination .
2
If the Sarah was refused service because of the restaurant owner's sincerely held political beliefs she can go to another restaurant.
It is a false equivalency to say that shaming SHS is like a baker refusing to make cakes for gay weddings. The Red Hen owner shamed SHS because of her daily actions as an individual in her job as the voice for an administration which directs the entire government of the most powerful nation in the world. The case of the baker it that of a man discriminating against an entire class of people. These two things are incomparable. It is muddy thinking to force them into the same argument.
2
I stand firmly behind the restaurant owner who -after reportedly taking a vote from her staff- asked this administration's mouthpiece and her entourage to leave the restaurant. The mouthpiece was asked to leave not because of her race, her gender, her sexual orientation or anything else that she did not choose to be....but because of her willingness to work for an administration that is proven on an hourly basis to lie, obfuscate, display racial animus, hurl ad hominem attacks to all and sundry that do not agree with its policies...threaten physical violence and tax penalties on others...and create deep divisions in our great country.
If I visit Virginia, my first stop would be to dine at this restaurant and shake hands with every staff member. Bravo, guys!
2
At some point a therapist or a support group will learn what type of parent Sarah is. Or it might through a book or an interview or who knows what that the rest of us might also. We certainly do have an idea what type of parent her father was.
2
Who remembers when the Republicans thought it was right and fitting to turn away Vice President Biden “because of conviction and principle”.
Well, folks, you can't have it both ways. Support the refusal or it says more about your willingness to push your narrow ideology than about the act of refusing service.
1
Trump and his supporters want it both ways. Trump himself is crass, obnoxious, and attacks all sorts of people. He has never been civil. His wealth did not buy him class, and his supporters now feel emboldened to verbally attack Mexicans in restaurants in NY City and elsewhere. The Red Hen owner reserved the right to refuse service and so be it. I'm sure there are an endless number of restaurants that will be glad to have celebrity Sarah dine in their establishment. Sorry, GOP and Trump -- you built this. Even families can't spend time together because of political differences. This is where we are, stop making apologies for it. No one on the right is ...
American Republicans, the time has come to show your renewed loyalty to the President and reaffirm your allegiance to one that is plenipotentiary; all powerful; returning your country to you.
Stand proud and well-fed under the banner of the Flag;
Let there be no more undesirables among the ranks;
Let there be only deserving children, the best, the finest to carry the torch of freedom; the highest education, the kindest of wardrobes, the richest seats to watch America restored and follow your leader.
It is a beautiful thing; you are on the way to making America Great again with the guidance of your president and commander in chief; the stars are bright and the seas are shining; it is time to remove your hats and bow to the one who is making you the greatest in the Land of the Free, before the hens come home to hatch. Wear red in his honor.
Well, it seems to me that if a baker can refuse to bake a cake for a gay couple because of his religious beliefs that the owner of a restaurant can refuse service to someone she feels lacks her values, also kind of a religious thing as we are told that morals and values stem from religion.
To quote a recent "Slate" article,
"In the Washington Post on Monday, James Hohmann warned that “liberal hostility” toward the White House—including the public shaming of administration officials like Stephen Miller and Sarah Huckabee Sanders—“supercharges the president’s sense of grievance and gives fodder for the argument … that he and his followers are disrespected.” In turn, the “nastiness” could “alienate and depress middle-of-the-road independents who prize pluralism.” Likewise, at Axios, Jim VandeHei and Mike Allen see Trump as the winner in an escalating game of outrage. “The more President Trump does, says and tweets outrageous things, the more his critics go bananas and the better he does in the polls,” they write.
Some of this is due to a recent spike in Trump’s approval rating, when he hit 45 percent—a personal best—last week. But Trump’s improvement is overstated. Even after that spike, polling averages show him well below his margin in the 2016 presidential election. FiveThirtyEight has him with 42.3 percent approval to 51.6 percent disapproval. HuffPost Pollster has him with 42.8 percent approval to 51.8 disapproval, and RealClearPolitics has him with 43.7 percent approval to 51.1 percent disapproval. These are averages, so they don’t capture recent trends, which show Trump on the decline. A new Gallup poll released on Monday shows Trump back where he was before the brief spike: with 41 percent approval to 55 percent disapproval."
Therefore, go get him.
You said something quite telling: In turn, the “nastiness” could “alienate and depress middle-of-the-road independents who prize pluralism.” In other words, normal people. The kind of people you absolutely need to win at the national level, people who still respect honest exchange of ideas and who don't enjoy seeing our entire political system turn into a kindergarten food fight.
1
If no less a body than the Supreme Court rules it is lawful for a baker to deny a gay couple their wedding cake based on religious/ethical grounds, surely it is a restaurant’s right to deny service based on their own religious/ethical objections to the policies of the monsters in Trump & Co.
1
One of the hallmarks of human behavior is our unpredictability, and a human person's uncanny ability to NOT do what another person tells them to do, to break rules or disobey or do the opposite for no real reason, the impulse to NOT act in the way we expect or demand. Some of it is Darwin Awards type stupid stuff, or just ask the parents of any child who has wandered off in a grocery store, about the experience of unexpected random human behavior done for no good reason... And now that we have a president who consistently behaves in every exchange like a petulant and aggreived four-year-old child, this type of behavior is on the rise everywhere, and it's to be expected that there will be consequences and fallout. For some time now, behavioral norms in both the meat space and internet spheres, are being deliberately and savagely rewritten by an underground political movement with a cartoon frog as its mascot, and a petulant God Emperor as its head.
I'm sorry we're even having this argument, but this is who a sizable portion of this country has become in the last gasp of resentful white Christian rule. Whites call the police on those going about their business while black. White supremacists call their hate marches celebrations of "free speech." People have to hope that pharmacists have no moral objections to filling their prescriptions. Gay people get kicked out of AirBNBs, and so on. But if you look if young people today, you'l see groups of children and young people where race and sexuality is not an issue - white kids hanging out with black, Asian, Indian, Middle Eastern and every other race & nationality imaginable. They don't care and truly seem to be color blind. So there's hope.
1
When are these supposed men/women of the people aka the Trumpists going to come out of the closet? Eating at a farm to table restaurant aka organic, hippy place that embodies everything the vilified liberals espouse? Their hypocrisy knows no end. I am sure they’d be more comfortable at a fast food spot or other corporate “food” outlet that mirrors their policies where they can eat highly processed, unhealthy products from corporate agribusiness. Put your money where your mouth is and stop living a cosmopolitan lifestyle while simultaneously attacking the very people and policies that make these places possible.
This isn't hardening anyone's position. Anyone still supporting this corrupt, fetid administration is already gone. They are not going to be won back over. This is like when some GOP members suggested boycotting Snoop Dogg. None of those people listen to Snoop Dogg anyway.
1
If I owned a restaurant, I would not serve trump, or anyone in his administration, appointed by him. Include Melania and his older sons and daughter Ivanka. They all are complicit in a portion of his wrongful deeds which they themselves own. I would however, serve their children and Barron totally free meals, including their security teams. The reason is simple: Family separation: My religious beliefs prevent me from taking any “blood” money from the above cohort. I believe trump is directly responsible for the suicide of the father who hanged himself after he was separated from his son and wife. The father is but one example. trump has caused irreparable damage to thousands of families. In addition, I would not serve any of the dastardly GOP Congress, that support him, because they, along with trump, are directly responsible, for any and all deaths caused by the removal of health care insurance, now and in the future...
3
The right applauded when a baker refused to allow VP Biden into his establishment because he didn't like Obama or Biden's politics. That ok Ross?
And, the owner of the Red Hen asked her employees what they wanted to do and they voted not to serve her and her guest. Democratic with a small 'd' right? It was Sarah who made a big deal of it by tweeting out what had happened. Suppose she had just gone quietly into the evening and found another restaurant (isn't that what you tell LGBT folks)?
1
Were she to enter "my restaurant" I'd have her body-searched for weaponry then insist that she wash out her mouth with disinfectant before being shown a table by the swinging kitchen door. No, I wouldn't ask that she weigh herself or suggest she order a salad, because I'm not petty, just cautious.
2
The collective amount of breath being held awaiting the revelation among conservatives that they're promoting a double standard is becoming unmanageable.
I'll let everybody down easy: Nobody on the right is going to acknowledge that kicking Ms. Sanders out of a restaurant is no better or worse than refusing to bake a gay couple a cake.
It isn't that they aren't hearing what you're saying. It's just that you're right, and so it's not an argument worth having in their eyes.
Probably time to move on.
OMG, people, please, PLEASE continue doing so, applying pressing on the Trump officials everywhere they go. Especially effective, it seems, would be denying their basic human function needs at public restrooms. And what do you think about harassing their kids and elderly parents in public also? Would that also be justified by the "greater good"? Any why stop at Trump's officials - apply pressing to ALL trumpists, regardless of color, gender, or age. My non-partisan neighbor, who I have been working on for months, who is a decent human being but an indecisive, FINALLY came around yesterday after reading up on Sarah's humiliation: he said he MUST vote for Trump's party now and against democrat bullies, he said he refuses to live in society where you can be bullied and denied food based on your political views. THANK YOU, Democrat bullies! We will strengthen our conservative ranks greatly as more and more decent people of America see your Democrat party for what it is; the party of bullies. As Pres. Trump said, He would not go to a restaurant like that. Watch the Red Hen go out of business and its employees on the streets thanks to its owner's Democrat extremist action.
I would hardly think that the fact that Sanders and Kirstjen whoever are female makes any difference. (I think her last name is Nielson, but I don't care enough to look it up). They chose to serve under this vile administration. Their victims are female also. So anybody who sees Sanders and Kirstjen as victims probably has their mind made up already.
What offends me is that the commentariat and Ross accuse Trump of lying while ignoring the fact that Obama told some whoppers:
1) You can keep your doctor and your insurance
2) ACA will lower your insurance bills and drive health care costs down
3) Benghazi was a spontaneous response to an anti-Muslim film.
4) The cold war is over, Russia is our bud.
5) Red line in the sand.
All of these weren't just lies, they were big lies about substantial issues. And not to mention that every time a cop shot a Black, Obama immediately sided against the cops.
Trump's lies, conversely, are more hyperbolic -- biggest inauguration crowd -- that type of lie.
3
Ralphie, there's a difference between saying something you know isn't true and saying something that unexpectedly turned out to be false. 1) Obama was saying the ACA would not change the doctor-insurance relationship, but in fact those relationships change all the time, ACA or no ACA. 2) ACA has slowed the growth of health care costs and reduced insurance bills for many but unfortunately not all. Some of that is unexpected results, but much of that is due to Congress and governors sabotaging the ACA. 3) It was not clear initially what caused the Benghazi attack. Simultaneous attacks in other places were incited by the film. 4) I admit I don't know the details, but the "reset" was not a lie, it was a strategy that didn't work. 5) Again, when this was said, it was not a lie, but regrettably Obama did not follow through on his rhetoric. Trump's lies are often not innocuous. Just a recent example: he and his administration denied that they were separating children at the border or that it was a policy when both were known by them to be false statements at the time. Trump lies intentionally all the time (several times a day), to confuse people and poison the political atmosphere, which is dangerous for democracy and the American people.
The above message appears to be conflating purposeful lies with failed goals or predictions that did not materialize.
2
John B
1) Obama and Pelosi knew that what they were attempting through ACA was not going to reduce health care costs and if you used Obamacare that your choices of physician might be limited. And find me one person who has had their insurance costs decline due to ACA.
2) Health care costs have not declined in any way related to the ACA. They have slowed but still run at a multiple of overall inflation -- and that multiple has grown since ACA was passed.
3) The Benghazi attack was known to be deliberate almost immediately -- as HRC's e-mail to Chelsea confirms. And even after it was clear to all Obama & minions kept up the lie. Why? Because he was campaigning on the premise that terrorists were on the run. And then there's the little item of regime change in Libya.
4) Russia is not now nor was it then a great threat to us. But the left and Obama suddenly believed they were a huge threat once Trump won.
5) Red line in the sand was a deliberate attempt to talk tough but Obama knew he wouldn't follow through.
We tried civility, it got us Neil Gorsuch.
13
For many of us, after decades of political paralysis, the only option left is humor. I like to try to imagine just exactly how the Democrats, my party, are going to shoot themselves in the foot.
And once again, I'm left surprised and delighted at their un-erring ability to find a banana peel to slip on. You just can't make this stuff up!
3
The only and only Jesus Christ is said to have assertively expelled the moneychangers in the temple. I'd like to think that the Democrats are following this example of righteous anger. And when you consider the actions taken thus far, they are all quite mild. No name calling, no threats of violence; just in-your-face messages that we are sick of all of the trumpian nonsense. In the main, it's been quite civilized.
1
I believe the restaurant owner was wrong but that no real harm was done so there is no reason to dwell on what happenned.
Just like the insistent with those black men at Starbucks.
The Press has taken a story of very little importance to society in general and has put it on page one as if it was.
It seems to me that it was the staff who had objections to serving Ms. Huckabee putting the owner of the Red Hen in an untenable position - get rid of the customer or order the staff to continue serving. If ordered to continue, relations might be raw for awhile. If I were a customer, I would find being in Huckabee’s presence difficult. I’d leave the restaurant myself, without fuss, as soon as I could.
2
If you're Republican, incivility, and much worse, is just one more tool to use against their opponents, whether they are calling them out for it or practicing it themselves.
Tea party mobs breaking up Democratic congress members' town meetings, thugs dressed in Brooks Brothers suits halting a vote count in Florida, trump's threats or glorification of violence at his rallies, Mike Huckabee's racist tweet against Nancy Pelosi - they are all in a day's work. But the minute there's the slightest push-back, like Sarah Huckabee Sanders being politely asked to leave a restaurant, and they suddenly play the victim.
What I can't understand is why the slightest incivility by Democrats is expected to backfire against them, but when Republicans do it, it almost always works.
24
Because Democrats are progressive, enlightened, believe in equality and interested in making life better for everyone. Threats of public humiliation, inciting hate for people with different opinions, wish to make group of "other" suffer or disappear - are not included in democratic values or set of behaviors.
Though I admire Douthat’s erudition and rhetoric, I seldom agree with his views. This time I find his arguments well taken. In fighhting outrageous politicians like Trump, it is not enough to be right. The optics of actions must be taken into consideration as well. It is true that separating babies from parents is not comparable to denying an official a succulent dinner. But Douthat is perfectly right: political actors cannot assume everyone sees the world the way they do. A political genius like Martin Luther King understood that and that was part of the basis for his success.
4
The baker - according to the Supreme Court - was not obligated to bake and decorate the gay wedding cake; similarly, the Red Hen was not obligated to serve Huckabee Sanders (why has the press stopped using her full name? We all need constant reminders of her heritage).
However, I would hope that that the more reasonable people will not attempt to make a Federal case out of their political differences. After all, Huckabee Sanders had a reservation, didn't she? That would have been the time to refuse service with a polite refusal. Once she was there, she should have been served as good a meal as anyone else. Failure to serve at that point was too much like the lunch counter incident, and that does not reflect well on a liberal or progressive philosophy. We are better than that, so don't stoop to Trumpian tactics - it only fuels their cause.
7
The problem for me is that this issue regarding Sanders & others linked to Trump is framed in the political not the social. Is it ethically appropriate to refuse public service based on political, religious, ethnic, race or gender bias? If you believe that it isn't appropriate for any of the above then it should apply to all of them. Keep in mind I'm not talking about legality or political advantage only about the social contract of a functioning society. Because I want the view expressed above considered on its own merit I won't get into my position on all things Trump. Why, because that's not the point. This is the politics of reaction & we should fear its effects on society regardless of the political drivers. That way lies anarchy which in the end benefits no one, not even the reactionaries themselves.
6
The case if the bakery and the incident and the Red Hen overlook the important concept of public accommodation. People open clubs for select membership, businesses exist to serve one and all. The Red Hen recalls memories of the sixties when people with antiwar bumper stickers were turned away from gas stations. All of these decisions were made bafly, no matter the perception of righteousness on the part of the actors.
It is a good thing to turn out a disruptive or abusive customer. The same cannot be ssiid by the cake baker or the Red Hen.
10
John
I believe you meant to say ",,,the formerly important concept of public accommodation".
There are no rules now. None.
1
Is this action going to open the flood gates for the Red and Blue supporters to start denying services to other groups or individuals for simply having different political or social beliefs of affiliations? While I do abhor Sanders statements as a mouthpiece for Trump and in some ways applaud the action I'm still not convinced it is going to do anything other than rev up the already divided sides to become even more hostile to each other. The dialog between hardcore and Red and Blue supporters is already non existent and getting worse both by the twitter statements from Trump revving up his base and the FOX news /conservative radio hosts spewing insane rhetoric. Is this what a modern day civil war in the US is going to look like?
5
By becoming more politically active, Americans are, unfortunately, losing basic civility. And liberals seem to be on the forefront. I bet this woman would also refuse to serve policemen and soldiers. Seriously, how can you justify discriminating people for their jobs?
5
Pretty easily actually. In this society you're not assigned to or drafted into a job that is chosen for you. You are instead free to choose and compete for any job you want. In those circumstances, it seems entirely appropriate to discriminate against certain people in certain professions at certain times. It's why convicted bank robbers have a hard time getting a bank account.
I'd like to take that bet. I'll give you odds, say ten to one. Typical right-winger. Know who Tammy Baldwin is?
Was the baker entitled to turn away the gay couple? Was "Crumb and Get It" entitled to turn Biden away? Paul Ryan thinks they were.
I can remember the conservatives who were opposed to black folks gaining civil rights. What says "civility" better than planting a bomb in a church? Being on the jury for a trial of one of the murderers and voting not guilty after five minutes of "deliberation", smirking the whole time.
Now that's Conservative Civility!
All those conflating the refusal to serve Huckabee Sanders with the refusal of a baker to serve a gay couple seem to be missing a simple point. She was denied service based on what she does - lie in the service of an odious leader who abuses his power to inflict harm on innocent people. The couple were denied service based on what they are - gay. Huckabee Sanders can stop doing something odious. The couple can't stop being what they are.
8
Yeah, well I've been to Dalmatia, and there are worse places we could turn into. Since we live in a country where a shop owner can turn away perfectly civil paying customers for no other reason than he simply disapproves of their lives, this conversation feels late and pointless.
1
The irony (or hypocrisy) of the situation is the the owner said she did not want politics to sully her restraurant. But her actions GUARANTEED politics would dominate her restaurant. I think her actions were boorish and uncivil. But I also think the best course of action for those who feel as I do is to go to the restaurant, order a meal, and five minutes later simply, before it is served...walk out. Similar to what she did the Sanders, but in reverse, the owner will feel her own pain. TS.
2
And you felt exactly the same when Joe Biden was denied service by a bakery, right? Apparently Paul Ryan felt quite differently, that denying service to Biden was a great thing.
1
“To be clear, I don’t particularly want to live in a world of conservative and liberal restaurants, where I’m frog-marched out of my local artisanal coffee shop..”
Well then, unequivocally denounce what the Red Hen did, Ross, or you are also part of the problem.
Following the embarrassed dinner party to another restaurant? If true, that’s well beyond the pale, unless you are a transplanted northern liberal living in genteel Lexington, Virginia where everyone traditionally says hello to even strangers passing them on the sidewalk.
9
Fully concur. Mr. Douthat is certainly welcome in my (hypothetical) wine bar & bistro
1
For some reason, after donating/throwing out most of my old college text, I kept Hannah Arendt's, Origins of Totalitarianism, which, rereading my faded yellow highlights, find, that Trump is checking all the totalitarian boxes.
19
In 2012, a baker refused to allow then Vice President Biden entry to and service at his bakery, Crumb and Get It. The baker, Chris McMurray stated that the reason for his action was because his political views differed from Biden's. As may be expected, this act was celebrated mightily by the usual right-wing outlets. Somewhat surprisingly, it was also lauded by top GOP leadership, the same ones who are now outraged by what happened to Ms Sanders at the Red Hen restaurant.
Rep Paul Ryan, then the GOP nominee for VP, invited the Mr McMurry, to address a campaign rally in VA. At the rally, Mr McMurray stated that the reason he turned Biden away was “Nothing personal, but I just happened to disagree with the President and the vice president on a few things.” The crowd and Mr Ryan cheered loudly.
The actions of the owner of the Red Hen - and of Crumb and Get It - were petty. No one dressed appropriately and acting civilly, should be denied the opportunity for service at any public establishment.
Apparently however, if you are a conservative, you either have very poor memory or lack the ability to detect hypocrisy.
44
Personally, I believe in being polite to everyone, 24/7. But Trump and his followers have been heaping abuse on everyone they can think of, since at least the summer of 2016. Washington—the city, the cultural phenomenon, and the entire region—has been a particular target for villification. So is it any wonder that a few of the locals finally snap and ask someone to leave a restaurant, or demonstrate outside someone’s house?
Waving signs in front of someone’s house is certainly small potatoes compared to destroying long-term alliances by declaring our nearest neighbors a security risk, ripping children out of the arms of their asylum-seeking parents, or attempting to exclude members of one of the world’s great religions from even visiting their relatives in the U.S.
6
We have been far to lenient as a country on those that willfully perpetrate economic and civil barbarism on others. How many were convicted in the 2008 economic meltdown? One. We allow through loose regulation and enforcement companies to pollute our water, air, and soil with little regard to the health of others. We allow Fox 'News' to broadcast lies and factually incorrect information under the guise of 'news'. It's time we start making people understand that there are consequences for bad behavior.
20
What seems obvious but missing in most commentary on the subject is the staff in most urban restaurants are emigrants of South American or Middle Eastern countries. The primary interest of owners of most of them is probably to save Trumpistas from spit flavored aperitifs. Imagine the obtuseness of these customers dining out at Mexican restaurants after spending the day defending our cruel boarder war tactics on children. I don't need to know if it is politically wise to understand it is gastronomically aware. I applaud the resistence.
5
Sarah Huckabee Sanders is by my own observations not only the mouthpiece for a president who lies and insults daily, but adds her own public insults in her briefings. That includes insults and actions against gays and Spanish-speaking people.
That doesn't work out well when you then want something in return from those whom you just insulted or hurt.
Sarah Huckabee Sanders could have walked away from this but she CHOSE to broadcast it using her official government Twitter account, and her Daddy and our president CHOSE to broadcast it further and added their own not-unexpected lies as fuel to the fire.
Sarah Huckabee Sanders may not like being held to account for her unethical behavior, but the real incivility is these people deliberately working to destroy someone's business. Theirs was an attack on people with less power than themselves who were NOT using megaphones.
Has no one watched Casablanca and cheered for the French?
21
I have some sympathy for SHS. As pointed out, she's a mouthpiece. She has no connection to policy. Cabinet members such as Kirstjen Neilsen are in a different position. They have a chance at shaping policy, however hopeless that chance is with their boss. If they're okay with that policy, as Neilsen clearly is, they should not be surprised by the protest.
1
But she willingly chose to become that mouthpiece. She wasn't forced into the job at the point of a gun and has instead been an enthusiastic and unrelenting megaphone for a vile administration.
1
Sarah Sanders is Donald Trump’s stand-in. She lies daily for him. She justifies the unjustifiable. She is, as much as a Scott Pruitt or a John Bolton, an agent for the destruction of the institutions that protect this increasingly less exceptional nation from autocracy. We will never have the opportunity to directly confront Donald Trump. His public events are staged to pack only his supporters into the audience and the rare occasions when any voice of dissent is heard, he leads them in shouting it down.
So when Sarah Sanders is available for the kind of public commentary that Donald Trump will never allow himself to face, what is correct response? Maybe the right answer is to walk over and say “You work for us and yet you do us a great disservice”. Maybe the right answer is to get up and ask her how she can work for a man who makes a mockery of her religious faith. Maybe the right answer is to ask her if there are any limits on the mendacity that she will engage in, if she has any personal standards that will draw a line that she will not cross as a citizen. But whatever the right answer is, the wrong answer is doing nothing and accepting the current course of our nation as acceptable.
6
Running Sarah Sanders out of a restaurant is not as damaging to our democracy as stealing a Supreme Court seat was. Undoing Obama’s legacy simply because he made fun of you at a correspondent’s dinner does not equate to bringing unwanted attention to a trump sycophant in public. Scorched earth has been in the republicans playbook for a long time. Democrats are just catching up.
7
On one side are people who lie, deny facts, attack the free press, insult, taunt, libel, bully, cage children, break up families, start trade wars, enrich themselves at the nation’s expense. The Trump administration’s low standard of behavior is on display daily. Watch one minute of any Trump rally for evidence of the lowest form of civil discourse. On the other side, there must be civil, respectful people, who tactfully point out the other side is not being nice. How far do those in power have to go before their opponents can do anything that isn’t considered polite? People like Trump depend on others behaving within the rules of decency to get away with their outrages.
6
I am aghast. This social democratic atheist totally agrees with Ross Douthat for the first time that I can note, and I read his column a lot.
As a political person I admire the sentiment of the Red Hen owner but do not like the tactic at all. It is what I derisively call "preaching to the choir". It looks great to those who already agree with the position staked out but offends many it in theory hopes to convince. The optics are terrible.
12
I had to check the byline myself, because this yellow dog Democrat also agreed with this column of Mr Dourhat’s.
1
Thank you. For a nation now set upon its path to civil war, I hope people are not only reading but listening. I am afraid though the emotion levels are too high. My own family and friends and colleagues are beginning to ostracize me for pleading for civility and truth seeking. Dark days are ahead because the activists do not understand the greatness of the Civil Rights Movement's commitments to American values as opposed to that of Neo-Marxism.
22
Well put. I wouldn't be so worried if it wasn't for all the weapons in private hands. This could go south real quick. Even up here in the Northeast.
1
I don't fully understand why Republicans aren't celebrating the actions of Red Hen's staff. After all, isn't this an example of an America where people are free to not serve others whom they find objectionable? No political correctness here, the staff at Red Hen did everything a Republican would expect.
But I agree with Ross that perhaps this isn't the most effective form of protest against the Trump administration. First, it was pretty spontaneous. Second, it goes against the civility we say we expect in public life, toward our own kind at least.
A better protest against Sanders would be to take all of the experienced, august White House correspondents out of the White House and replace them with summer interns. These cub reporters can feed what Sanders is saying back to fact-checking newsrooms where the story can simply be "Administration Lies" or "Administration doesn't lie." The current correspondents can find their new beat in various government agencies and use their skill and experience to uncover the real dismantling and obfuscation that's going on behind Trump's tweets.
18
Just attending a Trump press conference is a travesty, because they havevto listen to him fawn over the alt right media. Perhaps the press should also rethink tge way they approach those
Ross Douthat is right, the anti-Trump forces lose when the focus is on the protester and not the object of the protest. In this case, Sarah Huckabee Sanders was the object, but the owner of the Red Hen garnered the spotlight. Of course, Trump being the demagogue that he is, quickly seized upon the moment to take the focus away from the border children, who had often been lied about in Sanders' press conferences. Rather than kick her out, perhaps the owner should have simply ignored her - like she does reporters whose questions she doesn't want to answer.
See: RevolutionOfReason.com
17
Refusing to serve a customer on any ideological grounds, whether religious or political, is both a) counterproductive, as it does more to energize the allies of those denied more than it does to harm their cause, and b) a terribly dangerous step down a path at the far end of which is violence. Businesses have every right to refuse service to those whose conduct while on premises is disruptive or offensive. But refusing to serve an otherwise well-mannered person for things they say or do or believe outside the business transaction will do nothing but deepen the divisions that now threaten both national and personal well-being.
18
Thoughts worth considering, Ross. Given available information, aside from Indivisible groups across the nation, there is no actual organization to develop strategy for public actions. The danger here is the same that Occupy Wall Street faced and that doomed it: participants refused to say exactly what they wanted, and they refused anything that smacked of organization that would subsume individual outrage to organized, concerted action.
4
I’ve read and heard from various talking heads that the Supreme Court decision in favor of the baker who refused gay customers is different from the restaurant owner refusing to serve Sanders because the former was based on religious belief which is a protected right. I don’t believe in religion. Does this mean that my opinion of right and wrong is inherently less valid than the baker’s?
What part of separation of church and state does the Supreme Court not understand? When do non-believers get to be treated equally under the law as those who profess to be religious? And what really takes the cake is the idea that religious freedom in this country does not actually mean freedom for Christians to exercise their beliefs. Does anyone really think that a Muslim baker would have “won” this case if he refused to bake that cake, based on his religious beliefs, for a Christian couple?
15
Very well written, sir.
I am in the camp that thinks Ms. Sanders was treated badly by the restaurant and acted graciously when confronted.
I am also in the camp that holds accountable any person who accepts a position in which he or she must defend the indefensible as a self-inflicted professional decision.
Herein lies the conundrum - where is the line drawn regarding how we act and react as both a person and an employee when they are in direct conflict? The high road would have us resign and find alternative employment - the low road would be to sacrifice our values and convictions for the sake of a salary. Tough choice.
Generally speaking, successful protest involves great sacrifice and risk by those seeking to foment change. If you want change and don't plan to invest any "skin in the game", the outcome you desire might not eventuate.
5
If the United States Congress would deign to do its job and offer some constitutional checks and balances on this administration, it wouldn't fall to some restaurateur with a properly offended conscience to try to set matters right. While I agree that this is not an approach that should be broadly pursued, it is heartening to see once in a while. And Ms. Huckabee Sanders is very high on the list who deserve such treatment.
20
Maybe a better tactic would be to refuse service of any kind to those do-nothing Congressmen, both in DC and in their home districts. Perhaps this could be extended to Supreme Court Justices.
3
One of the greatest weapons against incivility is the snub. It is definitely not polite.
7
There is much confusion when this debate is framed as being about political strategy. Maxine Waters' involvement clouded the issue because of her position as a representative. But this is not about political parties or strategies; it's about citizens dealing with their personal conscience. It is wrong to assume that they are either Democrats or Republicans, or that their actions were logically taken as "strategy". I support when someone, unexpectedly finding SHS in her restaurant, polls her staff and civilly asks Sanders to leave. I support when people hear unexpectedly that the person who ordered the implementation of the separation of parents and children is eating at a Mexican restaurant, and decides to confront her. I do not support anyone going to a government person's home to vent their feelings. Many writers offering opinions on this don't seem to be able to relate to when public affairs force one to take a stand in one's daily life. The case of the Red Hen bears no relation to the case of the baker who wouldn't bake for a gay couple. The gay couple did nothing wrong, nothing that should upset anyone else, they are just living their personal lives. The Trump administration has seriously injured thousands of people. Yes, we have civility values, but there is something wrong when people can't lose their civility when faced with severe harm to children. I would not have hesitated to tell SHS the issue is just too upsetting at the moment and would she please leave.
8
Beneath layers of digressions, the author suggests that effective and ethical political action is organized along lines similar to operant behavioural conditioning: specifically, a stimuli (political issue) apprehended in a timely and specific fashion by reinforcement/punishment (protest action) to modify the behaviour of the subject. The problem with this is that we are not modifying specific behaviours in a cat or dog (dont chew the carpet), but people's core beliefs and identity politicized. In this age, any confrontation to political beliefs is going to be seen as a personal attack, either directly or by proxy.
2
I have been an avowed anti-Trumpist since long before the gold elevator descent. Nevertheless, I've been ambivalent about the Red Hen incident all along.
It's beyond going high. It's an attack on a private person out with others on a weekend. That person complimented the restaurant by choosing to dine there, and so did her entourage. It's not cool to ask them out after they have been seated and served.
In this atmosphere, however, Ms. Sanders and others like her may want to make reservations in their own name. At that point the restaurant may choose what to do with that.
Better yet, they may want to order in. Public people expose themselves to applause but also to boos when they choose to get out of the TV screen and mix with us folks.
5
Sanders knew what she was in for. She watched Sean Spicer's life unravel because of having to repeat Trump's lies. Now that she does it for a living, she'll either have to accept anything that comes her way or quit. We'll see how long she lasts under his thumb. No one is forcing her to lie except for herself.
8
Spicer's unraveling hasn't seemed to have lasted very long. He's come out of it with a book deal and tv producers trying to sell a talk show starring him. Unfortunately unless they end up being convicted for some kind of crime, most of the odious members of the Trump administration will probably go on to fame and/or fortune as a result of their tenure in this shameful administration.
I’m not concerned with frog marched out of a restaurant. I’m concerned with goose stepping down Pennsylvania Avenue.
13
I'm concerned by both.
1
Please read Adam Gopnik's essay about this in the New Yorker. To paraphrase his closing point: if you want a seat at the communal table, don't spit in all the plates and then expect to be served. Ms. Sanders literally and figuratively spits at reporters every day she takes the podium. Her sneers at them, and by extension, at the American people who pay her salary, are well-practiced and especially odious.
54
If a bakery owner can refuse serving gays, et--al on the grounds of his or her religious beliefs, is it not logical and fair that a restaurant owner can do the same to someone whose actions violate the restaurant owner's "religious" or personal beliefs?
3
My worry is that polite removal or protest snowballsinto geater incivility or physical action. Except when the target is Stephen Miller, gloves off with that ogre.
7
As loathsome as the Trump administration is and if one throws their hat into that ring, in my view, they share in that loathsomeness. However, I do not want to turn Sanders into Rosa Parks. The restaurant owner could release her employees from serving Sanders and the owner take over those tasks. Be polite, be civil and let it be. Such behavior highlights the depths to which Trump and the Trumpettes will stoop.
4
Nit-picking...but why this assumption? ".... Sanders, while no doubt a good mother and kind person in the private aspects of her life . . ."
Is it possible for a person to just turn off her despicable character when she leaves her office and goes home? And isn't she passing on to her children aspects of her behavior that they see her exhibit every day?
5
I do have doubts as well... The “I was just following orders” defense has a spotty track record.
3
Still true that what is sown will be reaped. If it is ok to not serve customers for reasons of religion it must be ok to refuse service to people who are the team which attacks minorities and LGBT. It is unfortunate but these days the president has crippled politeness and civility.
6
Sarah Huckabee Sanders can whine all the likes about incivility, but her supposedly Christian father spews incivility in daily tweets and radio diatribes. If florists and bakers have the right to refuse service on moral grounds, surely restaurateurs have the right to refuse service to tax-paid public servants who engage in serial lying.
57
The "evil being protested." By calling them evil you are justifying violence against them. This is where these protests will lead. If that happens Yugoslavia will be a walk in the park compared to what will happen to our country.
2
Just because the right wing is prone to violence, i.e Charlottesville, does not mean the left is the same. There is not equivalent behavior. Stop projecting.
What a missed opportunity for a bit of friendly turnabout. Sarah orders the chicken-fried steak and the waiter brings the lobster mac and cheese.
"Wait, I didn't order this."
"Our management is focused on doing what's right for the hard working macaroni makers and lobstermen of America."
"But this isn't what I want to eat."
"Um... it's important that we all pull together as Americans to do what's right for this restaurant."
etc.
23
I find Sarah Huckabee Sanders to be a loathsome individual for her role in promulgating the falsehoods of the toxic and putrid Trump administration, but I would not have asked her and her party to leave. Doing so has only given ammunition to the Trumpsters. Civil war is in the land bubbling ever closer to the surface, and Trump has sure lent a hand. That is exactly what he wants so he can ride in to save the day by persuading a compliant Congress to impose ever more restrictions on free speech and other rights guaranteed by the Constitution, which will simply become a sham document. And we did it to ourselves.
4
When the Trumpsters already have all that ammunition stockpiled, this was a drop in the bucket. Let the right eat their bullets, and the left can eat farm to table, and speak truth to power with grace.
1
Ross, I believe you are missing the point. Unless I am sorely mistaken, the owner of the Red Hen asked Ms. Sanders to leave because she is a conservative. She was asked to leave because she has (with gusto) consistently offered full-throated cover for Trump's blatant lies and repellent statements. She is complicit.
9
Sanders gets up there and lies to the American people left and right. THAT is the incivility. That she was ASKED to leave because of her actions only brings home to her, personally, the consequences of her actions. My father had a saying “don’t spit in my face and tell me it’s raining.” She spits in our faces everyday. She has no claim that she should receive better treatment than she gives.
8
So i do not agree that she was thrown out. I do believe the owner may have saved Sara from her food being sabotaged. Cops have know of the problems with eating out for a long time now.
1
Wait a minute. This is the new rule as as written by the Republicans on the hijacked Supreme Court: if you morally object to someone you don't need to serve them. Did they think it was only for people they themselves don't like?
34
You have a point as soon as a conservative tries to use the power of the state to deprive a person of their business who refuses to serve conservatives.
Which means you don't have a point.
Does Sanders realize how LUCKY she was that the proprietor explained the staff's issues and asked he to please leave ?
I was a professional waiter for several years and, trust me, although it exceedingly rare - you would NOT believe what a waiter (or cook) will do to your food or your drink if they feel justifiably outraged.
Many people are indeed outraged at the lies, the racist smears, the kids in cages, etc.
Fair or not, Sanders should probably eat at home.
33
The pie that was served in “The Help” came to mind.
2
Of course, and the gay couple was also quite LUCKY that they were refused a cake, because he probably would have put razor blades in it, right? What a ridiculous, victim-blaming excuse.
1
Irony is lost on you
Ross-You missed or omitted the most telling argument against the owners decision to discriminate against Sarah and her dinner party.The Sign displayed in her Window reads
"LOVE is the Only FORCE Capable of Transforming
an Enemy into a Friend". "Hypocrisy is Good" seems to be the owners true belief.
5
"But I do want to live in a country where people feel comfortable exercising moral convictions in the way they run their businesses — whether they’re Christian bakers and florists or the Red Hen’s progressive proprietor." Really? Restaurants, bakers and florists do business with the public and are obliged to serve everyone who comes into their establishments by the constitutional Equal Protection law, not to mention the Civil Rights act, which are not overridden by moral convictions of the owner, manager or staff. They may not (nor should they if they have a brain in their head) discriminate on the basis of sex, race, religion or national origin (and in some states gender orientation). SCOTUS decided in favor of the Colorado baker who refused to make a cake for a gay couple's marriage (on very narrow grounds applicable only to that case), then punted the Washington florists case back to the lower courts. In the end, no religion should be allowed to impose it's beliefs on anyone who does not share them.
9
Oh gosh Ross, isn't it a shame that Sarah was treated that way. But like many a response to gun violence, there's nothing we can do about it, so let's offer Sarah our "thoughts and prayers".
46
People should not promote confronting Government officials in a country where it seems every disturbed person has a gun. Don't go there, this isn't going to end well, we have already had one guy shooting Congressmen playing softball. Exercise restraint, let the liars eat just remember to vote. Please tone it down everyone.
10
Those of us on the Left who are confronting our Leadership do not carry guns. We do not behave like that. We use WORDS. Not guns. We have brains not fear.
2
Your admonition to "tone it down" grates. No, absolutely not. When confronted by a bully and his minions, "toning it down" is precisely the wrong approach.
The specter of gun violence is a red herring. We cannot give up our first amendment rights because every day people die violently at the hands of mentally ill protected by a perverse rendering of their own second amendment rights.
A president who encourages attacks on the press while condoning forcefully separating children from their parents needs to be confronted forcefully not meekly.
For God's sake, what does it take for some to get angry? We are living in desperate times. Act as if you understand where this nation is heading and that acquiescence does not equal civility.
1
Contrary to the electoral efficacy argument that Mr Douthat suggests: it might be that a lot more Democrats and former non-voters will come out in November because they will feel emboldened to do so by witnessing these CIVIL acts of spontaneous moral outrage directed toward people like Sarah Sanders who, after all, are defending the putting of babies in cages.
I also point Pelosi and Schumer to the line from Blake:
He's observ'd the golden rule
Till he's became the golden fool.
11
Ross, like most of the pundits on both sides can't see the forest for the trees, either purposefully or through ignorance.
The case is simple. The Republican/Conservative/Evangelical axis, through the stolen SCOTUS seat has declared that discrimination based on one's closely held beliefs is acceptable. So, in the same manner as the florist and the baker, the restaurant owner has the legal right to refuse service that violates her closely held beliefs.
The problem is the Republican/Conservative/Evangelical axis doesn't like the results of their law and are crying like babies. Crying babies are best ignored.
7
Ms. Sanders attacks persons and their ideas all the time. As does her boss: Wacky Jacky, etc.
The moral algebra of all this strikes me as if not dishonest at least puzzling: the Trump administration maintains that we can hit you anytime we want to, and you must never never ever hit us back. And if you do, we cry shame.
My grandmother [1868-1962], wonderful Lincoln Republican, would tell us all to mind our manners. And to calm down. And to sit still. And, finally, to say our prayers.
But we are destined to hate each other. And that is the real shame. Ms. Sanders had it coming; that seems undeniable to me. And bad manners abound.
TCB
1
"That’s because Sanders, while no doubt a good mother and kind person in the private aspects of her life,..."
Not going to conjecture on Sanders' abilities as a mother, but I wouldn't go near the assumption that she's a "kind" person in private life. That's much too big of a leap to make for somebody who's demonstrated such a comfort level with continual lying in service to a man like Trump.
That being said, I would have left her alone to eat her meal, while understanding why others feel more comfortable taking an "active" approach.
Tactically speaking, I view it as a "net loss". It's red meat for Trump and his storm troopers, it accomplishes nothing, makes Dems look like hypocrites and distracts us from the real political battlefield. We had Trump on his heels with his catastrophic family separation policy until we coughed up a fumble with this silly Red Hen "gadget" play.
It's great to be "moral", but too often we are forced to settle for "moral" victories. If you can stomach wading into "Daily Kos" for a minute or two, no doubt one of their scary writers wrote a scathing "hit piece" about how the Red Hen "destroyed" Sarah Sanders.
Ooooh, Trump must be shaking in his boots.
2
"That’s because Sanders, while no doubt a good mother and kind person in the private aspects of her life . . ."
Really? No doubt?
22
Even if she is, so what? Plenty of serial murderers were known as upstanding members of their communities. And no one can deny that they were. The problem was what they did for recreation. In Sarah's case, the problem is what she does on the job.
1
The basic argument that decent human beings should practice civility made sense in the pre-Trump world. Trump himself demolished that world in 2016 and has been gleefully stomping on its tattered remains ever since. The old rules of civility and respectful disagreement do not apply in an era when Trump-supporting white nationalists can march through such a genteel city as Charlottesville shouting
"Jews will not replace us, " to the warm accolades from Trump himself who referred to these neo-Nazis as "very fine people." These are not normal times and the normal rules simply will not do. You can be sure that the type of restraint being advocated by Douthat and others, if followed, will be exercised unilaterally - by progressives and moderates only - not by Trump's mobs.
I cannot emphasize this enough - the only way to defeat a bully is stand up to him. Sarah Sanders, Kirstjen Nielsen, and everyone else in Trump's cabinet and administration have chosen to ally themselves with the torch-wielding mob that marched in Charlotteville in defense of white nationalism. They deserve no such consideration as civility, much less an unmolested and enjoyable night out on the town.
21
"while no doubt a good mother and kind person in the private aspects of her life"
Can you offer any evidence to support this statement?
11
So moderates of every party castigate the restaurant owner for exercising her right to refuse service to a pathological liar who endorses the pathological and scurrilous lies of her despicable boss. This twaddle of moderation nearly derailed both the civil rights and the anti-war movements of the sixties so that in the face of an expanded war abroad and assassinations here we got the thrill of choosing between Nixon and Humphrey. The TV talkers have hours of gibberish to speak while this country undergoes a Jeffersonian crisis between tyrants and patriots that may or may not lead to Eliot’s internecine warfare but in either case can’t be resolved by Gergen civility of discourse. The decades of compromise are over in this country where there is no longer a loyal opposition but leaders as corrupt as McConnell who subsidized coal while blocking for the first time a Supreme Court replacement. All this in the name of a man who lost election by a vast majority of voters. And yet this was the fatal flaw of the framers of the Constitution, that the majority might not prevail and so with W. and now Trump we suffer the tyranny of the minority with no recourse but to be polite and await yet another perversion of the Electoral College, itself a perversion of democracy designed solely to appease slavers to join the new country of sovereign states. That states were permitted to choose their own Federal election means was the flaw that led to winner take all and instituting undemocracy.
3
The mass of trumpsters (and no, they are not conservatives) complaining about Ms. Huckabee-Sanders is laughably rife with hypocrites. They celebrate a baker who rejects a customer but cannot stomach a restaurant (perhaps a stretch description of the Red Hen) does the same.
Personally, I'm with Ross on this one - I'd prefer that we live in a world where businesses are apolitical.
3
But Ross, you already do live in a world of liberal and conservative businesses. The Supreme Court says so. Just like the baker does not have to make a wedding cake for gay couples, the Red Hen does not have to serve Sarah Sanders.
10
The issue is not as you framed it: "civility vs. incivility".
The issue is whether someone can express outrage against people like Ms. Sanders who believe it's acceptable to terrorize children for political ends.
10
This is actually pretty simple Ross: an oppressed majority – the majority that voted for Al Gore and Hillary Clinton for President and (in the aggregate, nationally) for a Democratic congress is rapidly losing patience with a “Rule of Law” that is increasingly begin employed to disenfranchise them.
And there is no way to spin or logic-chop this situation as anything else: a country with a two party system where a minority of voters regularly elects a national leader and controls the legislature is a “rigged” system, and the constitutional factors which “legalize” the process are enthroning a favored minority by endowing them with (in the term so dear to conservatives) “special rights.”
In this country the Republican party now is the morally illegitimate political tool of an Oppressor Class – and the citizens it seeks to disenfranchise owe its leaders exactly the degree of deference and civility that colonial administrators, plantation overseers and galley souscomites extract from their charges – that is, the degree of respect for their persons and the “rule of law” which can be elicited by force.
This situation is certainly a disaster for “civil discourse” and perhaps even for the “American Experiment.
But, as the lyric has it, “Money doesn’t talk, it swears”, and the oppressed are likely to curse right back.
6
I wonder if Ms. Sanders would agree with the statement : She only did it for what she feels is the best interest of the country? That is her line whenever she does a verbal contortion to rationalize what Trump does when he is, in fact, doing the same thing. It should be pointed out the owner acted ONLY after she consulted with her employees. They did not go rogue. They called her and told her their feelings and she acted based on the feelings of all her employees. Trump, on the other hand, doesn't care what his employees think. His M.O is to threaten anyone who doesn't fall in line behind him. Imagine, for a second, if the restaurant owner told her employees: "If you cook for or serve her, you will be fired." Imagine the uproar. But Trump's base yells out "Now that's what I am talking about" when he behaves in a rude, threatening, and despotic manner toward anyone who doesn't agree with him. One side "should" behave with dignity and consideration. The other side: anything goes. And therein lies the problem. If we do it, absolutely OK, even preferable. If you do it, you should be drawn and quartered. And they wonder why they were labeled as deplorable.
4
The Right has a powerful propaganda machine that operates 24/7. If it's not FOX News, then it's Limbaugh and his ilk. Remember, at the heart of their collective rhetoric is the notion that liberals aren't "real Americans" or that "they hate America." And now, it's even the President, whose nasty tone seems to energize his base and give them license to say, basically whatever they want. These are people who find it hard to speak the truth.
Then, when a business owner takes exception to serving a person who promotes this agenda, the right wants to whine like a bunch of babies?
There are plenty of examples wherein professionals and owners are refusing to provide services to clients/customers with whom they have moral or philosophical differences, but we don't hear an outcry from conservatives about it because as long as it fits their agenda, it's OK.
7
I'm not always in agreement with Mr. Douthat but I'm in agreement with this piece. I think it's wrong to harass or refuse service to those who work with Trump but I'm not surprised that we have reached this point. There was bound to be push-back in the face of the horror that is the Trump administration. I disagree with Ms. Waters. I think her proposed tactics will be counterproductive. But it galls me to hear Speaker Ryan condemning her and calling for civility and an apology. Where was the speaker when Trump suggested that protesters at his rallies should be punched in the face. And where has he been through the litany of Trump's insults, taunting, cruelty and lies. In God's name, who does he think started all this. If a bloc of GOP representatives and senators had stood up many months ago and called Trump on his abhorrent incivility maybe we wouldn't be at this point
3
What the owner of the Red Hen should have done: Bring everyone at the SHS table something completely different than what they ordered. Then insist that "no, I assure you that we got the order correct". And not only that, but the chicken that arrived on her plate "is actually the steak that you ordered, we have an alternative definition of steak". Much better than kicking her out.
7
The problem is the anger we feel. The government is supposed to serve all the people, not just their party. No one in the GOP seems to understand this. No one seems to understand what makes America great.
I'm angry every single day at the way, every single day, Americans values are being trampled by my government. Those pictures of small children in cages? 3 years ago, we'd have all thought they were from a place like North Korea.
8
I can see the frustration of those defending the restaurant. Why is it that only liberals need to be polite and civil? I can understand that some out there feel that the restaurant did an admirable thing by avoiding what they must imagine as collaborating like the cabaret owners of occupied Paris. I feel that we need to maintain a certain level of decorum in our interactions with each other. I think that we need too be able to tell the differences in each other by how some choose to behave. Rude is rude, name callers are name callers. Neither of these represents a philosophy of civilization or governing, nor an organized group of citizens anyone should want to belong to. I'd prefer not to be rude or to become a name caller. I wouldn't want anyone to think I was a Republican.
8
I must write now, right here, that you, totyson, have the best, last word on this current discussion. I once had a much older friend in a nursing home who insisted on eating the last stem of a horrible, overcooked puddle of broccoli because “I wouldn’t want anyone to think I agreed with [Republican] George H. Bush.”
1
The problems is the conflation of a private citizen , the owner of the Red Hen venting her frustration - in a POLITE way to someone, who it can be argued, is not just in opposition to the owners political beliefs, but is in opposition to our very democracy. Had the owner asked Ryan or McConnell et al to leave, perhaps one might agree that this is taking political ideology a step too far. The trump administration is different by a yard as are his enablers. Its documented, not opinion, the huckabee lies, outright lies and defends sometimes contradictory statements from trump, its an affront to our sense of truth as well as our democracy.
The outrage expressed by the owner pales to the vitriol that huckabee sometimes expresses to the press. The still free press. Pales next to the vitriol that MAGA champions express at their rallies. They are cultish and to worry about arousing their anger is a futile act. they are all in on the man, whether its children in cages, or destroying an American Company ( Harley Davidson ) that disagrees with their leader.
YES , go out and vote and YES express outrage at the behavior of this president and his enablers.
Maxine Waters spoke to about 50 people and it filled the pages, tRump spoke to a stadium and it was carried live on Fox speaking to millions against immigrants, the press and particular individuals by name ( late night hosts) and had equal coverage? Are they same? The same effect?
The time for silence is over. Its time to Shout!
17
The best place to confront Sarah Huckabee Sanders is at the White House briefings. When, at Thanksgiving, she asked all reporters to preface their questions by saying what they were thankful for in America, only one pushed back at this insulting piece of Momism. And when Mike Pompeo told the press that they were insulting by asking about the substance of the North Korea show, no one told him that they were just doing their job. There is far too little push-back to power. The next time, one the administration decides to eat in a Mexican restaurant, they should bring the entire kitchen staff out to ask if they have enjoyed their meal.
5
We watched republicans during the last 20 years, we listened to them as they attacked President Obama, democrats, liberals, and anyone else who wasn’t aligned with them, we heard their lies. We see you, we hear you and we took notes, now that the shoe is on the other foot we are supposed to forget all that in the name of civility? Yeah, I don’t think so.
5
Of course the owner of the restaurant can refuse to serve Ms Sanders. But how does this square with the baker who refused to design a cake for the gay couple? Don’t both business owners deserve the same rights?
5
Ross, great thought piece.
However, I think using the comparison of sitting at lunch counters peaceably in the age of Twitter, Facebook, Instagram et al, falls short. As evidenced by the number of folks protesting against Red Hen restaurants all over the country and even a publishing house named Red Hen, you aren't dealing with the "best and the brightest". I think it necessary to constantly point out ignorance and hypocrisy. If we don't we will eventually arrive at the place where truth doesn't matter at all. I think we are close.
10
You can't have it both ways. You can't use minority rule to continuously make laws and policies that are autocratic and offensive to the polite society you yearn to belong to. Trump officials are treated this way because the majority of Americans loathe this president and everything he represents.
32
Jeff -- he is the legally elected president and about half the country likes him.
3
Finally! The left is learning what Newt Gingrich taught Republicans over twenty years ago. That politics is total and all out war.
Democrats can no longer be the “nice guys” who take the high road. It ain’t working, folks. Trump is the brutal proof of our failure.
The Republican Party must be so thoroughly defeated that it cannot wield power for decades. Every vestige of Trumpism must be rooted out and destroyed.
Harsh? Yes, admittedly so. However, the stakes are too high. Our planet, the environment, global geopolitical stability, and our precious democracy depend on it.
6
I think Ross is correct, and the proof is the glee with which Trump exploits incivility by Democrats.
3
"a general surge of activist harassment of Trump officials at restaurants or movie theaters or wherever is likely to only harden the president’s support"
This president is supported by a core of voters that is already so hardened there is nothing liberals can do to make it more so. We are NOT going to win over any Trump voters so stop talking as if this were some logical strategy. Trump supporters weren't fazed when a member of their group literally mowed down liberals in Charlottesville with a car. They are off the deep end, never to return.
Hillary lost because liberals were not sufficiently energized, minorities stayed home, and as a result we're stuck with a demagogue supported by a fraction of the electorate, 1/3 at the most.
Short of actual violence, liberals need to keep the pressure on by any means necessary. Public shaming is on the table. These people deserve it.
5
"This president is supported by a core of voters that is already so hardened there is nothing liberals can do to make it more so." Hear, Hear!
Try as I might to imagine how support for Trump by his core of voters might be softened, my imagination fails me.
1
The great Red Hen massacre is a tempest in a teapot.
Even the fulminating cruelty toward immigrants at our southern border is a distraction, diverting attention from the deeper, structural mayhem brought on daily behind the closed doors of the White House and the Cabinet.
Trump is trying to drive this entire nation off a cliff, and he seems to have enough lunatic assistants (including Huckabee Sanders) to make it happen.
Today we learned that the US intends to place economic sanctions on any country that buys Iranian oil. In other words, the US wants to dictate the behavior of the rest of the world. The more likely outcome is that the rest of the world will simply shun the US.
And what then?
We are about 4 months away from mid-term elections. With a concerted effort, we the people can eject enough Republicans to bring our Congress back to life and stop this madness.
That, to me, is the only project. We will not ignore human rights violations, whether inflicted on immigrants, refugees, or citizens. But we will remain focused on the coming elections, and we will prevail.
After that, maybe, I'll share a beer with Ross. If Huckabee Sanders picks up the tab.
2
More Red Hen incidents equals more voters for Trump. Voters will remember the near silent rebuke from other Democrats for this uncivil protest.
4
Who pays Sanders's salary, Ross? We do. The taxpayers. Sarah Sanders lies to the American people, on behalf of her boss every day. Shaming and shunning are a good nonviolent way to express our opinions. Just like you do in your columns, Mr. Douthat.
6
John Brown at Harper’s Ferry, for example?
3
For what it's worth I find it terrifying that America is reverting to the country it was 10p years ago where businesses were to free to exclude anyone they disapprove of on the basis of race, ethnic background, sexual orientation or political affiliation.
Now Sara Sanders needs Secret Service protection thanks to that unfortunate
Red Hen nightmare.
3
It is interesting that the Obama administration had first implemented the exact same policies (separating children from their parents upon entering the US illegally) and then like President Trump discontinued doing this once it was believed to be immoral. There was little outrage from the left and I do not recall Maxine Waters going after those in the Obama cabinet responsible for setting up these policies.
I guess it is only people like Sara Sanders who deserve to be targeted by the liberal extremists because they work for President Trump a man they absolutely despise. They are not helping their cause one bit and are actually alienating many voters by this deplorable and dangerous behavior. These actions are a sure win for the Republicans in November.
In addition to losing the support of the American voters, these actions by Ms. Waters and others are simply dangerous and unsafe. All you need is one unhinged person to act upon these progressive outbursts, and they could seriously harm those such as Sara Sanders and it could be catastrophic. Actions have consequences and this is not looking good for the Democrats in the upcoming elections.
5
I remember things differently. There was plenty of outrage about Obama’s policy, just not in the NYT or Fox News. On left-leaning broadcasts such a Democracy Now it was constantly covered. Please don’t revise history.
1
So when Trump offers to pay the legal expenses of anyone who wants to beat up a protester at his rally, that's OK?
Obama never separated parents from children.
1
So a fictional attack by a hypothetical progressive is a clear and present danger, but armed, Trump-supporting marauding neo-Nazis running a young woman down and marching on temple, which had to be evacuated, doesn’t merit a mention by Trump groupies. Not to mention Donald Trump’s repeated exhortations for his followers to physically attack protesters and his suggestion that someone assassinate his political opponent. Meanwhile one of the president’s most vocal supporters in the House, and the president’s son, disseminate on Twitter the tweets of a Nazi, without the slightest rebuke from Republicans.
And Trump followers wonder why decent Americans label them Nazis. Talk about “unhinged.”
1
Incongruous, a "Trump mouthpiece deserves a night out in polite society". Our society has turned impolite precisely because of Huckabee Sanders' boss. She approaches her podium with a sneer towards her interrogators borne of Fundamentalist upbringing convictions that the rest-of-us are unworthy of truth in governance, just rule.
There is not one of his enablers, there being no handlers, who deserve a seat at a polite public table.
4
"But I do want to live in a country where people feel comfortable exercising moral convictions in the way they run their businesses — whether they’re Christian bakers and florists or the Red Hen’s progressive proprietor."
I don't know why you would conflate the two. People don't choose their sexuality thereby making the Christian bakers choice to discriminate a violation of their target's very biogenetic essence, their humanity. Sanders, Miller, and Nielsen make a choice to either promote or defend immorality and inhumanity so therefore ought to experience some of the outrage they have encountered. It remains to be seen what the impact of this public shaming will have on polarization and political outcomes, but I suggest it is improper to compare the two.
16
No matter where or when or how a situation goes down, it is human nature to finally stand up to bullying, lieing and leadership that is unorganized and ineffectual. We can talk all we want about who the victim is or whether it helped a cause. When the bully doesn't shut up, over time the community gets together and fights back. Will it be organized enough?..time will tell.
2
But Sanders and Nielsen were the ones who were actually bullied. Are you saying they should stand up and fight back?
1
Sanders seems unaware of how appalled the civil among national voters are at her disdain of the press, her offensive non answers and her outright insults to that civil sector and the free press. Patience and civility are wearing thin because of her abusive actions and words, not because those who disagree are horrible people. How much does the GOP expect us to take? We civil sorts have been invisible apparently and unheard but that will not last.
1
Trump and his team really ought to have an exclusive restaurant they can go to that only serves them. I'm thinking of an appropriate name... The Hague?
3
As a left wing, liberal Democrat, I have to say I am torn.
Because I know what would happen to a restaurant owner and staff if they voted to remove an important office holder in the new Erdogan government from a restaurant in Ankara, Turkey - and let's not even go there for someone connected to Putin - I champion the owners actions here in the United States.
Because I was in the forefront of those fighting for the Public Accommodations Title II protections about equal access to publicly operated businesses - like lunch counters - I have pause. Oh, I know "Trump staff" is not a protected class (race, color, religion and national origin), but every law has a letter and a spirit and equal access to every member of the public is the spirit.
Like Ross and many others, I, too would hate to see republican and Democratic restaurants and theaters - and bakeries. But just as I believe that if you are open to the public you must serve anyone who is a member of that public - like with a wedding cake - I think any member of the public should be able to access a publicly operated restaurant.
See how conflicted I am?
But, after reflection, I'm not worried about the Sarah Sanders' and Secretary's of Homeland Security and top White House advisers, not like I was about black people not being able to get a sandwich at a diner.
Sarah has made a choice. Words and deeds matter. And when babies are jailed by the American government, we can't wait for November to act.
2018. Blue Wave.
2
so it is wrong to say that my religion prevents me from being of service to people who incite hatred and separate mothers from their children?
Those who are directly responsible for singling out some people from others, based on their religion, or color or politics, have no right to be offended when they find themselves singled out as well. Whether it furthers the cause of a political party or movement is not the only goal here.
Personally I would have let the staff , especially ethnic staff, let her know how they feel about her, and THEN bring out her food.
Dictators depend on the civility of the oppressed. There was a day where the personal fight against tyranny was an individual obligation. Good manners are nice though.
1
As a left wing, liberal Democrat, I have to say I am torn.
Because I know what would happen to a restaurant owner and staff if they voted to remove an important office holder in the new Erdogan government from a restaurant in Ankara, Turkey - and let's not even go there for someone connected to Putin - I champion the owners actions here in the United States.
Because I was in the forefront of those fighting for the Public Accommodations Title II protections about equal access to publicly operated businesses - like lunch counters - I have pause. Oh, I know "Trump staff" is not a protected class (race, color, religion and national origin), but every law has a letter and a spirit and equal access to every member of the public is the spirit.
Like Ross and many others, I, too would hate to see republican and Democratic restaurants and theaters - and bakeries. But just as I believe that if you are open to the public you must serve anyone who is a member of that public - like with a wedding cake - I think any member of the public should be able to access a publicly operated restaurant.
See how conflicted I am?
But, after reflection, I'm not worried about the Sarah Sanders' and Secretary's of Homeland Security and top White House advisers, not like I was about black people not being able to get a sandwich at a diner.
Sarah has made a choice. Words and deeds matter. And when babies are jailed by the American government, we can't wait for November to act.
14
It seems that you know discrimination is wrong, but you hate the Trump administration a great deal, so you're conflicted as to whether to follow your emotions or your objective sense of right and wrong, to become a hypocrite, or not. I would suggest not. It's always wrong to kick people out of restaurants; deep down everybody knows that. If that's what we have to become in order to win, we've already lost.
A short lesson for you Mr. Douthat (you're not that old, so it's likely your memory isn't as long as mine);
Conservatives have been excessively uncivil towards liberals for 50 years. Your great saint Ronald Reagan, in fact, spent his entire administration denigrating liberals and making the word liberal into a cuss word. (when he was being 'civil' he'd call it the 'L-word'; in fact, one reason some started referring to themselves as Progressive is due to that effort on his part, turning a perfectly good word into a pariah; we see this trend continuing even today) During that time, liberals WERE civil towards conservatives. This is one reason why despite conservatives being outnumbered some 2:1 among the population, the political discourse has continued to move the right even though culturally, the nation has moved to the left. (which also explains why voter turnout is down, helping conservatives, but we'll leave that for another discussion)
I'll make you a deal. liberals get to be uncivil and say vile nasty things to conservatives and conservatives get to stand and take it very politely for the next 50 years, and we'll call it even.
How's that?
I suspect the verbal violence on both sides to increase until people start getting killed, at which point I suspect and hope people will have some second thoughts. I think it best to ask yourself whether you would treat another member of the administration civilly after Ms. Sanders (or someone else) was shot and killed. If the answer is yes, then you should probably treat them civilly now. If the answer is no, and you'd be happy with Trump administration members shot down, then clearly you're part of the problem, a problem that began long before Trump and will continue long after. Incivility begets incivility, with amplification after each repetition. Think about how the next Democratic administration will be treated.
6
There is some chance of us taking your suggestion and remain high-minded. There is absolutely zero chance of the Trumpers doing that -- or rather to start doing that. I recall when John Kerry and Hillary took the high road...
Fine. The owner has the right to serve who she wants (quite a slippery slope there). I just do not want to live in a place where public establishments are for liberals only, conservatives only, etc. I guess I could just eat at home and order over the Net. Kind of a lonely experience. Finally, the lens we should use to judge this is the what if it happened to me test for my views? Would you be outraged, or simply say such is life?
4
Mr. Douthat, what makes you think the restaurant owner was NOT acting upon her religious beliefs?
2
The most visible members of the Trump Administration have moved into the same iron bubble Trump lives in. As long as they're determined to avoid and ignore legitimate questions from we, the people, public shaming is the only alternative. A government that hides what it's doing from its citizens deserved to be attacked and dismantled.
2
The Mexicans working in those restaurants went to the airport last week, or last month, crying and saying goodbye to friends and relatives being deported. This administration is determined to destroy their lives. For them this is not some abstract question of public policy. This is about real people. Civil discourse would be great. But you have to treat all the people in that discourse as equals. Why does Sanders expect those Mexicans to serve her?
6
Wait a minute, all the restauranteur had say was, "It's against my religion to serve you" and the Supreme Court, such as it is, would have backed her up. And, in a real sense, serving Sanders was against her religion and that of a lot of other people.
If it is your opinion that bakers in Colorado should bake wedding cakes for gay couples you should also agree that restaurants should serve Ms. Sanders. While I disagree with most of this administration’s position I still believe in civility.
2
As a progressive, I feel proud of being held to a much higher standard of civility (and human sensibility) than Republicans in the Trump Era. The sensible next step for thoughtful conservatives such as Mr. Douthat is to migrate to that group which he admires, and away from those he has repeatedly deplored.
5
The Trump supporter's motivation to deliver political action cannot be fueled any further by indignation of their political opponents. They are already hardened partisans regardless of the lack of civility exhibited by Resistance-driven protests.
There's no need for activists to "mitigate the effects of backlash" or worry whether the action delivers "little tangible benefit". It is more important for those focused on defeating the Trump coalition to see these moral action are taking place.
2
If you are on medicare, social security, or medicaid, you clearly see the grave danger of this administration. If you are a person of color, a child separated from your parents, concerned about reproductive rights or working for minimum wage you clearly see the grave danger of this administration. And all of us should see or need to learn about the grave danger of ignoring and suppressing information and data collection about climate change as is happening in this administration. If you might become pregnant and don't want to be or if you are concerned about growing income inequality you clearly see the grave danger of this administration. Let's see, anybody left out?
7
The images on American television didn’t feature Lurleen Wallace turned out of her favorite restaurant, but they did feature George Wallace being shot five times in the spine. It didn’t set back the cause of the civil rights movement. Political violence is absolutely deplorable, but Ross vastly overestimates the civility of past political movements. Change does not come from asking politely.
5
I actually find myself agreeing with Mr Douthat. And I think his comments around effective and ineffective civil protests to be important. Denying service to a family eating out may feel good, but is not likely to further one’s cause, and will only engender a greater divide. While I detest the Press Secretary, refusing her service is no better than a Christian refusing to bake a cake for a gay couple’s wedding.
We need more effective means of civil protest and resistance.
6
How about a cake-maker refusing to serve a gay couple? Isn't that the same thing--a business turning down business? The Supreme Court backed the cake-maker. Why wouldn't it back the Red Hen? Don't we all have the same rights as a cake-maker/
"...to deprive a Trump administration mouthpiece of an evening out in polite society
...
breach of the basic bipartisan civility..."
Maybe neither. A restaurant can be many things. As can an evening dining out. But in an age where more of us are dining out more frequently, perhaps what is in order is a brief reminder of a few of the things they are not.
A restaurant is a conditional offering of hospitality not a civil right.
A restaurant is an expression of the owner's personality, not an extension of a diners personal domain.
An opportunity, not an obligation.
A two-way-street, not an implied contract.
2
Ross says "it would be good ... if she [Sanders] felt more social pressure to resign". But who would we want to do this job instead? Or not have it done at all? I see it is it good for the country that the administration has to do a Q&A like this, so the assumptions and logic underlying its policy stances can be discussed in a public forum. Sanders is doing an important job, even if she does not herself have a voice in decision making.
1
Michelle Obama said "when they go low, we go high," a wonderful, idealistic sentiment that failed miserably in the face of concerted attacks by truth-less, treasonous Trump and his allies, from Comey to Putin. Spontaneous pushback by committed liberals is good. It is non-violent political expression and if Republicans don't like it, good. This is tit for tat.
10
The Obamas HAD to go high: They are African Americans, and the penalties for going low are well-known and well-established.
Me, though: I'm a retired middle class white woman who doesn't have to care what anyone thinks anymore. I'm sick of being told to make nice with racists, homophobes, xenophobes and other assorted bigots; I'm done with turning the other cheek and listening politely to people who just want to scream hatred in my face.
What, they might behave even worse if I respond in kind? Let 'em. Let's see their real faces, once and for all. They aren't just Americans with good intentions and a different political viewpoint. They loathe everything America stands for, starting with equality, liberty and justice for all, and with Trump as their leader, they are determined to tear it down. I do not have to be fair and considerate and civil to people who are doing their damndest to bring back the bad old days of Jim Crow and separate but equal.
Their vision isn't America, it's apartheid.
2
I find it astounding when powerful government officials who are passing laws forcing businesses not to serve groups of immigrants and foreigners then complain when businesses refuse to serve them. This isn’t an issue of incivility; this is trying to teach some empathy to government officials who are happy to force businesses to deny services to others because they think it can never happen to them.
21
Good column, Ross.
As for the way the Red Hen's proprietor handled Ms. Huckabee and family, an alternate approach may have produced better and longer term results. The restaurant staff should have civilly (but no more than civilly) taken the party's order, prepared and served the meal, without any of the customary solicitous inquiries as to their guests' satisfaction with its quality. Then, when the Sanderses had completed the meal, the owner could have come to the table and, in a normal volume, conversational voice, said Sarah: "Ms. Sanders, your dinner is on the house. No charge, and certainly, no tip is wanted or expected. Please, in the future, take your dining business elsewhere. Your employer, and you by unquestioningly re-voicing his every utterance, represent a political and a life philosophy that I and my employees have asked me to include them as well, find offensive and abhorrent. Have a good day."
Sometimes protests hit harder when the message is personal, one-on-one. Perhaps if Ms. Sanders has a moral center such as the one Donald Trump utterly lacks, she might at least do a little introspection and decide she should be doing positive things with her life.
But then, that's just a fantasy, isn't it?
22
The staff did take the party's order and the kitchen was cooking it, as the owner came in. The staff did not refuse service, which everyone seems to be getting wrong. The owner, then asked to speak to Ms. Sanders privately and explained the discomfort of the staff, due to a basic moral abhorrence to current administration policies, as well as her complicity in repeating, and excusing, lies, on a daily basis, to the American people.
4
To Glen in Texas. What? A free meal? You've got to be kidding me. If that had happened what would have made the news is a headline that would have said, "Restaurant owner pays the check for Sanders." And it would have gone down as an act of approval for her lyin' ways. No, I think the public shaming, a la Trumpian behavior, is just perfect. The Trumpsters need to be spoken to in language they understand. As we saw, "civility" on the part of Barack Obama only got us Gorsuch. As we see with Trump, being really, really mean pays off big time.
1
Which, in itself, is a religious belief.
The real problem, Father Douthat, is not just that Trump's policies are comprehensively cruel, incompetent, greedy, destructive, regressive and backward, but his Administration, and his Russian-Republican Duma and the Radical Republican Supreme Court rubber-stamping his Trump Treason, are all illegitimate, the direct product of decades of voter suppression, vote-rigging, Supreme Court rigging, unConstitutional gerrymandering and Kremlin campaign assistance.
The Republican has comprehensively rejected representative government, free and fair elections and American democracy....it started in 2000 and has metastasized since then.
So while Trump's public policies are comprehensively awful to the majority of Americans, it's compounded by the fact that Trump's is a stolen Presidency, and the current Russian-Republican Congress is a stolen Congressional majority that was elected on the coattails of Trump's rigged Republican election, and the Stolen Supreme Court is the product of the 2000 and 2016 Presidential Election grand larcenies.
When one major political party has thoroughly rejected democracy and representative government, it's quite normal to expect political outrage in the streets as decent Americans protest the Republican coup d'etat.
This is not a problem for Democrats or independents.
The Republican Party carefully built a tyranny of the Whites R Us and Grand One Percent minority and now they get to see the fruits of their toxic farming.
November 6 2018.
Vote !
289
Socrates , you are the best. I wish you would be a speech writer for a great candidate and I am so glad you are from NJ. The SC refusing to hear the gerrymandering is about as bad as it can get. Not to mention taking children of any parent away from one another.
2
If only voting could solve the problem. My fear is that the next election will be co-opted like the last and we all will be doomed to live in the Fascist States of Trump forever.
2
"So while Trump's public policies are comprehensively awful to the majority of Americans, ....'
The 'majority " of Americans did not vote in 2016.
Of course, you will sanctimoniously dismiss them from consideration- but in truth you really have no idea what the "majority" of Americans think.
As much as it pleases you to think otherwise.
"But to mitigate the effects of backlash, an effective protest politics also needs to make sure the acts of protest are clearly linked to the evil being protesting, and that they set up scenarios where the person being protested, not the protester, comes out looking bad."
I know Ross tends to frame issues in fundamental if not biblical morality, but when every disagreement becomes a struggle of good versus evil, we have lost the ability for both civil discourse and productive compromise. Most of us have strong feelings about issues, but the majority are preferences and opinions. Casting everyone and everything you disagree with as evil incarnate is childish and ultimately destructive.
4
While I don't consider everyone and everything that I disagree with to be evil incarnate I do consider the will to dominate as one of the great evils of humankind. That Trump is a living expression of that desire with all the ills that come from it does tarnish everything and everyone around him regardless of intent.
I can’t think of one thing Trump has done in his life that isn’t evil, or at the very least immoral.
I never cease to marvel at the propensity of embittered progressives to march into dead-end canyons. It takes a lot to make Sarah Sanders a sympathetic character to anyone but the die-hard, Trump cultists, but Stephanie Wilkinson, the owner of the Red Hen restaurant in Lexington, Virginia has managed to do that.
Ms. Wilkinson and her staff violated one of the first rules of a civil society, which is hospitality to the stranger, even one whose character one abhors. The only way to coexist peacefully is to model civil behavior oneself, not only even, but ESPECIALLY, when the provocation is great. Ms. Wilkinson managed to seem both self-righteous and rude in refusing to serve Ms. Sanders. As Mr. Douthat points out, no less than MLK was extremely strategic in using the soft power of civility to discredit his opponents bad behavior.
What most progressives cannot seem to learn is that politics is about power, both hard and soft. That is the real world and an inescapable fact of mammalian behavior (humans). Without the soft power that permits compromise, the only thing that matters is hard power, and people on the right have plenty of that, and more, the will to use it, along with a great many more AR-15's per capita.
I watch Maxine Waters shrieking on television to harass everyone she with whom she does not agree. One day, someone will go over the line and there will be a riot. That will frighten people, and the response to that will be lots of hard, hard power.
Think about it!
22
If this not soft power - quietly requesting that an offensive person leave the premises- than what is? But the radical right will merely say it is ok to discriminate based on race or gender but not against offensive behavior...
I do feel sorry for huckabee that she has to live on a government salary and cannot shield herself as well from public contempt like the rest of trump's millionaires club.
1
"Hospitality to the stranger"? Like the hospitality at the border? Don't confuse public shaming with incivility. We need more shame in our society not less.
1
Define "offensive person."
Was Ms. Sanders disrupting other patrons' dinners through loud or contentious behavior, violating the premises dress code, or particularly bad hygiene? No.
Did she refuse to pay for her dinner? No.
These are the only relevant criteria for asking someone to leave a restaurant, which is a public accommodation and place to eat and drink. Refusing to serve because you don't like the patron's politics is EXACTLY the same thing as not liking their religion (or absence thereof), and to be intellectually consistent, you would also have to defend the right of the baker not to bake a cake for a gay couple.
I am guessing this is not your intent.
The recent decision on the baker came about precisely because the Colorado Civil Rights Commission was inconsistent in their ruling, allowing bakers to refuse to decorate anti-gay cakes but not one intended for the wedding of two men.
So, you are in Germany! Should I refuse to serve you because you belong to The Green Party? Or the Alternative for Germany? Or the wishy-washy centrist SPD?
Where does it stop?
There is a strange kind of false equivalence going on in America at the moment, where to the right you have people outraged at a lack of civility (though the woman was asked to leave quite politely and at no cost, so quite a civil refusal of service) versus the left where people are outraged at babies and children being ripped from their parents' arms at the border.
Weighing the two things up, incivility in a restaurant versus child abuse of quite horrendous proportions, they are quite clearly not equally deserving of outrage.
132
Correct. But, as Douthat points out, the prize is power, which is now wielded by Trump and his minions to the detriment of human rights. To regain that power, the opposition must carefully strategize their actions, drawing attention to the egregious behavior of our adversaries, and not to act in a way that suggests parity. Let’s keep our eyes on the prize.
3
And by the same reasoning, I suppose you would say that refusing to serve blacks at lunch counters was fine, because they were politely asked to leave and weren't charged. And what was going on in Vietnam was far, far worse.
The King of Lies, Distraction and Deflection is being distracted by the outrage now coming, finally, from the left. He can't concentrate on Robert Mueller while babies are ripped away from their parents.
No one cares that Huckabee Sanders was disturbed at the Red Hen, they're gleeful. My hope is that no reporter shows up for the next press briefing. There's no point in them anyway, except to give Fox News their talking points.
23
It makes sense to boycott Sanders the spokesperson. I ask myself what happens when Sanders shows up someplace with her children. Would you still approve of asking them to leave?
1
You just can't have it both ways, Mr. Douthat. When gay couples entered a business to purchase a wedding cake, some bakers denied them the right based - as always - on their religious views.
After numerous lawsuits, the not-so-Supremes voted that the oh-so-pious Evangelicals among us can turn gay customers down.
Obviously, the restaurant owner of the Red Hen, after having even letting her employees vote - now that is democracy - had the same right as a baker by denying service to Sarah Huckabee Sanders, a vicious women who constantly attacks reporters during her daily presser, while insulting their intelligence just like the very stable genius boss of hers.
82
This is a common misunderstanding. The question is not whether she had the right to refuse service Sanders. She obviously has a moral as well as a legal right to do that (and if she didn't have the latter, I would fight to get her that). Instead, it's about whether what she did was right or moral. The same applies to the bakers. They should (regardless of what the current law says) not be forced by govt (or at least conservatives believe that), but people are free and right to discuss whether their refusal is moral or not, civil or not.
2
I think you should have read the Supreme Court’s extremely narrow ruling in the ‘wedding cake’ decision. The whole point of this column is the fact that in turning a family away from a restaurant to make a political statement had in fact given the current administration more support.
1
Sarah, the restaurant owner did not have the same right, she had a greater right (or rather, the baker had no right). The baker denied service to a protected class of people. The restaurant owner objected to one specific (and powerful) person.
1
Mr. Douthat, Your remarks and criticism would be well placed were it not for the absolute fact that this president is a Terrestrial Horror who embraces other leaders in this special category.
18
She has her boss to thank for it. Trump uses personal attacks to victimize individuals, those that work for him, against him, and people who do nothing to him, but who he finds convenient to attack.
She got singled out, because Trump is singling us out, one at a time. Does anyone doubt that if he had the time, that Trump would viciously insult EVERYONE who disagrees with him, 300 million here, and two billion abroad?
Now they cry “foul” when personal attacks get turned on them. Sanders chose to associate herself with a person who revels in personal attack. You got what you asked for.
42
Actions do have reactions, not always good but maybe this could start a discussion? Are we happy where this country is heading and what can be done to alter this trajectory?
3
While businesses are there to make a profit serving The Public, owners may choose to sacrifice profit in order to follow their bigoted beliefs. We as Consumers have the right to spend our money at any merchant that we please. True equality for all means I may have to dine next to an ultra conservative racist. I can handle that and if engaged in a conversation with said con, the conversation will remain civil and my words kind. I will not stoop to their level of hate. I learned this from my grandmother when we were eating at whites only lunch counters. I am half black and half white and could "pass" but choose not to. The Red Hen is not a welcoming place and I would not choose to go there. The owner has no clue how much harm she has done. She also has no clue how much it hurts to be refused service.
The younger people and extremists on both the right and left seem to forget that I do not have to like you or believe as you do to treat you like a human being. Demanding public segregation from people you do not like is not the answer.
10
Wow! Skramsv, you should write a full-on Op-Ed for the NYT!
When did we take leave of such commonsense notions? The more we pull away from dissimilar people the easier it becomes to justify it.
1
I think that my discomfort with all this comes down to Mr Douthat's desire to "live in a country where people feel comfortable exercising moral convictions in the way they run their businesses." The notion that a business in the public marketplace is a public accommodation and that must serve all comers equally was well established at Woolworth lunch counters in the South in the 1960s. It's a principle that is least controversially applied to businesses offering food and lodging. When we try to make exceptions to the principle for the exercise of "moral convictions", whether they be political (as in the case of the Red Hen) or religious (as I recall Mr Douthat wants) we begin tumbling down a very slippery slope. Someone must decide when a political or religious or aesthetic or astrological or phrenological or what-have-you conviction is legitimately moral, and therefore grounds to deny service, and when it is mere prejudice, orneriness, whackiness, or obnoxiousness. Who is to make those discriminations? The courts? The state? The Equal Dining and Cake-Eating Commission? The marketplace is public. Serve the people! Even when it's a mendacious troll like Sarah Huckabee Sanders.
11
Do not rush to claim that the Red Hen people rejected Sarah Sanders due to political reasons. I find their stated objections (not what someone assumes to be their objections) entirely Biblical and religious.
By labeling the Red Hen manager's reaction as "political", you are assigning "religious" beliefs a higher and more approved status.
1
The case of The Red Hen, it seems to me, the moral argument is more deeply personal than political, more deeply personal than meta-political, more deeply personal than demonstrations directed against political figures, than epithets hurled from political platforms, than hate.
The restaurant owner responded to the needs and discomfort of her staff in a civil and honest way. She drew Sanders aside. She spoke politely. I would wish for an employer like her.
And she didn't approach a random customer walking in off the street. She spoke truth to one of the most powerful spokespeople in the world who is a prominent face of an administration that wounds LGBTQs, people of color, non-evangelical Christians, and many, many more.
She took a stand that mattered to the people closest to her.
And she's paid a price--a price that rabid Trump followers have not. For one thing, among many repercussions at last news, demonstrations outside her restaurant led to it's indefinite closure--demonstrations lacking the civility she exercised.
It was a private act of courage that snowballed and merged into the meta-political argument, but not without distortion and confusion with other acts of resistance.
In the end, it may be an object lesson in the power and pitfalls of resistance.
.
50
Would it also have been an act of courage if a certain baker had taken the gay couple aside, spoken respectfully to them when expressing his discomfort over their lifestyle and then ask them to seek another baker for their wedding cake? He certainly was challenging a powerful group. This was deeply personal as well - to BOTH sides of this disagreement.
This is what fuels those who support He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named". Liberals celebrate this "courageous" restaurant owner and condemn the "narrow-minded" baker. All sorts of nuances will be cited to differentiate the two events, but in the end the question is this: Are the baker's Christian beliefs any different than the political beliefs of the owner and her staff? Both are personally held beliefs that differ with the customer's.
Personally, I wouldn't want to do business - especially where food was involved - with any establishment that didn't want my money. Jesse Jacksons famously said (and later denied) that he spit on White peoples' food.
You can't have it both ways. Either businesses can serve whom they wish or they must serve everyone.
Remember who made the incident public. Ms. Sanders public proclamation of the happening was a political gem. She became the victim. The restaurant owner merely decided that she would rather not serve the master of the lie. She discreetly told her so and that should've been the end of it. Instead the pulpit of the presidency has been turned against the owner of a small restaurant in an attempt to ruin her livelihood. He inferred that it was an unclean establishment , which was just another lie from the liar in chief. It has since been exposed that Mar a lago has had more citings in its restaurant than the reataurant attacked.
179
Any restaurant doing business in the DC area will be serving Republicans as well as Democrats. Progressives as well as regressive. Supporters of DT and his administration as well as those who do not support DT. Deciding not to serve that person was a mistake - it was probably illegal and it ended up generating support for DT.
1
Your post is a prime example of the necessity of getting your information from more than your comfy “bubble” sources.
The first public mentions of the incident were from Red Hen staff crowing about Sanders’ ejection on social media which was picked up by media.
Sanders’ comment was setting the record straight.
Few media carried the rest of the story:
After refusing to serve Sanders, the Red Hen owner pursued them across the street to another cafe continuing to berate them, while calling for help in protesting their presence at their new choice
of dinner site.
Bright and early Monday morning, workers were seen washing the Red Hen’s dirty windows.
Will this harm tourist dependent Lexington? The Red Hen owner has now resigned as president of their Main Street program.
This didn’t happen in Blue New York City.
1
And she did do on official government twitter
A BLATANT and intentional violation of ethics law
This crew is so corrupt - on every level
3
I find it amusing that the right is suddenly so concerned about "incivility" and allowing people, well-known or not, to go about their private lives in peace and quiet. For close to two decades, Fox News' Bill O'Reilly sent his goons out to stalk, taunt and harass reporters, public officials, or private citizens, even to the point of tracking them down on vacation, videotaped the harassment, then played the videos on his cable show that was watch by millions of people. No one on the right seemed the least bit concerned by his actions or behavior.
225
Please do not forget the president telling us he liked to walk in on young women in a pageant in various stages of dressing he was sponsoring. This is incivility at 10 on unsuspecting young people. Gross
3
While it's very easy to look at this situation in terms of left and right, the real fact is that there's very few ways left for Americans who disagree with this administration to show it, especially with all three branches of government controlled by Republicans and Republicans ostensibly controlled by this president.
As for Ms. Sanders, it's very hard to have any sympathy for a person who appears to have none for anyone else.
Let her eat cake.
255
N. Smith. Regarding Ms Huckabee-Sanders, the lack of eating cake is nowhere in evidence. She should be grateful that the Red Hen merely refused her service and did not resort to "2nd Amendment remedies" as Trump speculated as a means to defeat Clinton during the last election campaign.
1
Yes there is: You can get non voters to vote, talk to anyone you know who hasn't voted, get out there. Also, organize a large peaceful demonstration. Remember the Tea Party Demos? No rioting, cleaning up after themselves, and having organizers out there controlling the demonstrators?
And they were SUCCESSFUL. (if you agreed with their philosophy).
1
But, but, Sarah insisted that she treats everyone with respect. You calling her a liar?
I sure am.
2
Trump has divided this country, and has pretty much worked to keep it divided with both words and actions. He has never taken the high road.
White vs non-white, red vs blue, Christian vs non-Christian, etc.
So selective serving of patrons is a direct result of this situation.
Get used to it, on both sides.
20
I am guessing that if Sanders is asked why and how she can blatantly lie every single day on behalf of her boss, she will say that she is just following orders and doing her job.
Gee, that sounds familiar.
1
Trump took advantage of a country already divided. His personal politics are skin-deep and self-serving. While he certainly adds to divisive hysteria, he does so only for personal advantage.
1
Refusing to serve Sanders was an act that that should make conservatives rethink their approval of businesses that want to do the same to gays. If you are outraged that the owner of the restaurant would dare to shame poor Sarah Sanders in such a public way, then you should also be outraged that a bakery owner or a florist can do the same to a gay couple. How do you approve of one and disapprove of the other, when they are attempting to do the same thing--refusing service to a customer with whom you disagree?
There could even be a religious conscience argument for refusing service to Sanders, as is claimed by those refusing service to gays. Proverbs tells us that "lying lips are an abomination to the Lord." There is much in Christian teaching about the importance of integrity, truthfulness and character, and an argument can be made that Sanders violates many of those teachings. Discrimination of one is discrimination of all.
145
The Supreme Court opened Pandora's box with the decision in the Colorado baker's case. While I understand that it was a ruling on the handling of the case not on its merits, this nuance is being lost. Expect more cases of I do not have to serve anyone who offends me.
We are living in interesting times.
18
I agree. Most of those making comments here have college degrees - but they are displaying poor reading skills and even more undeveloped thinking habits. They missed the whole point of Douthat’s article, and are unaware of the Court’s explicitly stated reasoning regarding a wedding cake. These people have the government they richly deserve.
1
The Red Hen owner is perceived here as hurting Lexington which works hard to be a tourist-attracting city.
Because her restaurant is smallish it could probably survive any boycott by local Republicans but other Lexington restaurants are more volume-dependent and could suffer if Lexington is off the "must visit" list of many tourists.
Some sense of the risk to Lexington may be behind the Red Hen owner's sudden "resignation" as a director of Main Street Lexington.
https://www.roanoke.com/news/local/protesters-gather-outside-red-hen-res...
7
Huckabee Sanders would be a good candidate for ostracism. This was the practice whereby each year Athenians could select one individual for expulsion for ten years, at the end of which the person could return without disgrace and with property intact. Ostracism was a check on arrogance, authoritarianism, and anti-social behavior. Just as a pardon system, wisely implemented, could add mercy to a legal system, so ostracism, done relatively rarely, could add common sense to democracy. Although our founders were classically educated, they declined to add ostracism to the political system they created. It would make a fun parlor game to pick one and only one person to ostracize. For the reasons listed in the opinion piece, Trump's spinmeister would be a good lead-off candidate for ostracism.
15
Athens also killed on the greatest philosophers in history - maybe we should not look backwards for civil advice.
1
It is possible to argue these circumstances in several ways, as we've seen.
What occurred was not racism, was not attacking a generic party, was not a form of misogyny. These are all things the president has condoned. What the restaurants did was call out some public representatives who, on almost a daily basis, overtly support the unparalleled mendacity of our sitting president.
Who knows how the politics of this will play by midterms? We will be subject to pages of speculation. Still, these public admonitions can be considered justified. Telling people to be quiet is also a staple of our culture--it happened all the time during our Civil Rights era.
19
"Taking direct action" is often code for anarchy: https://bigthink.com/articles/anarchism-direct-action-and-pushing-the-li...
And, of course, taking direct action / anarchy is the antithesis of civil political discourse.
This started under 44, who made all his inroads by fiat. Why 45 can undo them by fiat.
Now we have Ocasio-Cortez who wants to abolish ICE and tax and spend for universal healthcare and universal higher education, etc.
Ocasio makes Rep. Maxine Waters sound like the voice of reason.
The Dems have embraced anarchy.
2
Mr Douthat: How do you know that Sanders is, as you say, a good mother and kind person in her private life? You don't. More urgently: do you not see the country in serious existential danger?
52
There's a balance between incivility and knuckling under. Where I grew up the oppressor was very smooth-tongued, liable to quote some ancient Greek as he guarded the land stolen by his ancestors. How much worse it is to watch a philistine, and hear him insult the civilized leaders of the democratic world, see him break major election promises, and note the devastation he causes to the national debt. He is an enemy of the people as shown by his reversal on taxes (handouts to the wealthy and debt for the middle class) and his alliance with Vatican loyalists in the House as they threaten Social Security and Medicare. And he undermines the constitution and the free press. So I'm supposed to smile while ignoring the many who are complicit in his reign of destruction? Nov 2, 2016, I wrote on such a board as this: "The change I want is from what Trump would foist on us… I want a change to a better America, where greed, growth, and GDP don’t determine everything." That is not what the Electoral College gave us based on Trump's minority vote. And we're supposed to celebrate "democracy" and wait patiently for the next assault on our meager voting rights?
10
I think this is what isn't being seen with enough clarity; the restaurant owner one the one hand and Sarah Sanders and President Trump on the other are not equals. The restaurant owner is a private citizen and can do anything she wants with her business. Sarah Sanders is using the power of her official position to try to sink a private business, that's illegal and she should be fired. President Trump is likewise using the power of his office to try to destroy a particular private business, that's an impeachable offense, among his many.
Let's also consider how small minded Sanders and Trump are being, they are putting themselves at the same level as a mere restaurant owner. This is who were are being govern by. That the restaurant owner may be small minded also is none of my concern.
69
"It should be possible, though, to mix and match..."
I Dislike trump, and wish him ill.
And - I dislike the restaurant owner - and wish HER ill.
Is that what you mean?
1
It looks to me as if the exchange at the Red Hen was pretty civil. Politeness on both sides.
Then Donald Trump jumped in and the civility vanished. His diatribe was petty and inaccurate.
I think businesses should serve people who appear and are willing to pay for service. It's true that we will all face uncomfortable uncertainty if we are shunned because of who were are or what we believe. It will further damage the comity of our society.
I have some hope that Sarah Sanders got a sense of what it must have felt like to that gay couple when they were denied a wedding cake. Probably not.
16
A superb column from Mr. Douthat, one which clearly connects protests to the Trump administration's behavior that deserves to be challenged. By this criterion, the president and his minions offer plenty of targets for those who want to expose the government's threats to our constitutional system and way of life.
Trump's hostility to immigrants and Muslims exposes the racist bully at the core of his psyche. Protests which highlight these prejudices provoke angry responses from him that simply confirm the truth of the accusations. Irrelevant attacks which disrupt the lives of his subordinates, however, distract attention from the actions which have disgraced them.
When the protesters, rather than the president and his enablers, become the center of controversy, they simply play into Trump's hands. We must behave more intelligently than the people who are endangering the country.
Remember the movie, the "Truman Show"? This is the "Trump Show", and we are sometimes little boy Truman, and sometimes the actors in the show. How prophetic that movie! Many thought it was about media, but it was also about politics. Today, everything political has become a matter of TV optics, not social discourse. Trump is writing daily episodes and we take part, even clueless men like John Roberts and SCOTUS, who used to know the law. TV scripts must fit into a short period of time and follow a basic format: the "hero" (in this case, Sarah Sanders) faces a conflict (the restaurant) and needs to "work through" the problem to a successful resolution. Tune in. This particular episode was left unresolved, and we need to let the "public media" solve her problem. Boycott the Red Hen? Have itsowner run for the Senate? The public will remember the episode and wait for the wrap up. Lying works for Sanders, because these are "TV lies", and not real. Of course, the reality is that Reality TV is not real, and it is actually scripted. No one really cares who writes a TV blockbuster, its the conflict. This is great for people like Putin and Sheldon Adelson. That is why Trump has old white folks glued to Facebook and other media, to emotionally protect "their guy", their favorite TV character. They were hooked on the "Apprentice" and now they are hooked on the "Trump Show" which has better conflict. Too bad, this is reality.
8
Mr. Douthat:
In a country where ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES refuse to meet their constituents, you take what you can get.
Maybe people are tired of writing and reading each others 1500 word essays of outrage - and thinking it will make a difference to those who never read them (although I believe there are right-wing trolls who peruse these columns, looking for hyperbolic rants that can rally 'The Base'). Confronting the mouthpieces of mendacity gives a three dimensional face to the resistance, removes the remove, forces the miscreants to actually, in real time, hear the opposition. After all, they know that gerrymandering optimally neuters all that otherwise bothersome noise.
15
How did we learn of this? From all I can find, it was by Sarah's tweet (on her WH account) the next morning.
Neither the restaurateur nor her staff called the media to make news of it. That night at the Red Hen, the exchange between the two women took place in private, away from Sanders's family.
In other words, this is a prime example of the sort of nonviolent protest Martin Luther King would applaud.
125
Right, if Hucka Sands had kept her mouth shut none of us would have known of the incident, but she is just like trump, "poor me,"all the time! Can't think of anyone better to heckle than the mouth of the monster!
2
Look a little more. The staff of Red Hen crowed about 86-ing Sanders the next morning on social media and it was picked up
by general news media.
Because they all tied it to her White House job and Trump, she responded to set the record straight.
Unfortunately, the Red Hen owner followed the Sanders party across the street to the cafe where they did eat, berating them along the way. She even called reinforcements to protest them outside that cafe while they ate.
Hardly “private.”
The Red Hen owner has resigned
as director of Lexington’s Main Street program. Why? Because this will be seen by most people outside of the hard core Resistance as just plain rude. It will hurt business in that small town. Actions have consequenses.
1
saying that Sanders was" refused service" at Red Hen does not do justice to how the owner negotiated that existential circumstance. The story I read about the incident after it happened stated that (1) Sanders hand in fact finished her meal, although perhaps not all of her entourage had (2) the owner asked to speak to Sanders privately, thereby avoiding embarrassing Sanders publicly in the dining room (3) the owner and Sanders had a civil conversation about the matter (4) the owner did not charge Sanders or her party for anything served.
Speaking from direct experience in the service industry (I owned a small cafe for 14 years), I think the owner's actions represent a "class act" of judicious decisiveness and restraint.
34
Once again - the particular question is not of interest - the generalized Kantian question is the one under consideration:
Are you comfortable with any business owner refusing service to any individual based on his/her predilections?
2
What if this had been a bakery instead of a restaurant, and the owner refused to bake a cake for Ms. Sanders? Or a flower shop, and the owner refused to do a flower arrangement for her? Would we be having a different discussion?
You mention Martin Luther King, Jr. He looked forward to a day when people would not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. Sarah Sanders was not asked to leave because of the color of her skin or even because of her gender or sexual orientation. She was asked to leave based on the content of her character, which to many of us seems questionable. It's one thing to have a president who has a loose relationship with the truth, but it's almost worse to watch someone elaborately defend him.
14
There is no "resistance" because our two major parties are wholly-owned subsidiaries of the government-finance-corporate complex, separated by a small gap in how much of the social contract they want to destroy, the Republicans, or how little they want to honor, the Democrats. Red Hen? The sky has fallen in our democracy, the adults have left the room. What we got is a another event in politics as World Wrestling, or Trump and the Deplorables vs Hillary and the Hystericals.
5
There are many ways to ensure that someone like Sanders does not frequent your business if you do not wish to serve her. Many wonderfully subtle but effective, passive-aggressive ways. I wish the Red Hen staff had employed some of these methods instead of asking her to leave, which offers her a platform to respond. A more subtle approach would have Sanders exiting the restaurant feeling vaguely annoyed and dissatisfied, never to return. Problem solved. And if she stooped to complain publicly about the string of minor dissatisfactions, well, that would say more about her than about the Red Hen....
4
The fact that she tweeted about an event that was private and confidential, exposing herself to more ridicule and contempt, says a lot about her.
3
Kim: She also demonstrated her lack of ethics when she uses a government twitter account to vent her spleen on a personal affront. Her comment that the request for her to leave shows more about the owner than SHS is so laughable.
I'm enjoying these columns more and more. Not because I agree with them--I often don't.
But because there is some complexity of thought. I don't think in one note rants, but it is often hard to find an opinion column that is anything but.
7
Ross, you may hypothetically own a brew pub but today's column reads like you weren't imbibing hypothetical product but the real stuff.
While peaceful protest has been a vital part of our democracy -- assailing people in public because of their job or political beliefs is simply wrong. If you don't like Trump or the Republicans the appropriate thing to do is to work to elect someone else, then vote. But attacking people verbally in public, or refusing to serve those with whom you disagree, is not acceptable. And there is no argument to support that type of uncivil behavior. It is a slippery slope that can quickly escalate into things we don't want to happen. And while the dems are full or righteous indignation and believe that their actions are justified, they won't like it when (I should say if) they at some point retake the WH and their admin officials are attacked in public.
I do, however, agree that the job of press secretary is not vital. Perhaps a baby sitter would be more appropriate for the WH press corps. The thing Ross and others are omitting here is that from the beginning (immediately after Trump won) the leftist media and activists have been apocalyptic and have twisted every action of Trump's, every word to find something to use against Trump. I've listened to press briefings at the WH and these "journalists" aren't asking questions, they are trying to spin things themselves to get at Trump. No wonder Trump attacks the press.
9
Shame and ostracism are the most basic human social controls. The message of "we don't wish to serve you, please leave the premises" is NOT 'we have a political disagreement', it is "Decent people want nothing to do with those who cite Scripture to justify child abuse." It is qualitatively different.
7
In the dialectic of shunning as revenge and the high road you miss entirely the fact that restaurants are not grocery stores or pharmacies.
Restaurants, that is privately owned restaurants, are second homes for the owners and the staff. Chef, Front of House Staff, management and ownership, especially in small locations like this, form, along with their guests a small and intimate community. The food the entire staff sits down to before service is called "family meal." Owners head the restaurant family and carry responsibility for the well being and esprit of the team. Not of course at TGI Fridays, Starbucks and Hooters, but at restaurants like the Red Hen or the French Laundry they do.
The owner did not shun Sanders, and she did not determine to kick her out for her history of disservice to those in the restaurant. It was not a belief question, as was a pharmacist's recent refusal to provide necessary medication to a woman carrying a dead fetus. Nor was Sanders's issue something inescapable such as race or gender identity. The Red Hen is hardly Woolworth's counter.
The owner responded to the request of her chef, who said in short, I don't want to cook for this person. His reasons do not need questioning. She was doing her job for her people.
34
Ross, let's say she did it for religious reasons, like the "cake" thing. Where are you now?
Though the citizen did it on moral grounds it's no different than religious grounds. You push people just so far, they will react. Give her credit, the restaurant owner stood up for her beliefs.
26
The actions by this restaurant owner were reprehensible by any standard of common decency. Ms. Sanders is an employee, not the decision maker in the WH. She went to this restaurant to eat a meal with her family, not to preach politics. After asking Ms Sanders to leave, the restaurant owner gathered a group and followed Ms Sanders' party to another local restaurant and screamed political rants at them from outside (to make it more embarrassing, Ms Sanders had gone home and wasn't even with the family dinner party at that point).
If you are concerned with AGW, should you ban all Exxon employees from eating in your restaurant? Do we want restaurants and other establishments to now ask people for their voter registration cards for review before allowing them to enter?
The collapse of civility exhibited by too many Democrats these days (i.e., Maxine Waters) is not only a threat to our society but also will be the destruction of their own party. I think it is a small minority of Democrats who are behaving this way, but they have become the face of the movement. The core of the party needs to strongly and publicly distance themselves from such uncivil behavior or it will overwhelm and destroy them.
4
Sadly, we are limited in our retaliations to those arms allowed. "Ms. Sanders" is in no one's imagination, a member of a protected class, if anything she is in a privileged class, and thus more responsible than most for her behavior.
Especially, she has the imprimatur to change exact language of the leader and thus, she must be insinuating her own interpretations into her speech.
If she doesn't want continually to be dirtied, she should get out of the bathwater. To be fair, each of these women acted handsomely except they were each swallowed by the aftertow.
4
The attacks against Maxine Waters are because she’s a black woman, period. Republicans ignored Steve King and his Aryan Nation tweets, which he refuses to disavow.
Waters advocated public protest. You can agree or disagree with her theory, but don’t pretend you’re approaching it from a pristine position.
4
None of your allegations regarding following, harassing or screaming are true. They haven’t even been alleged by Mrs. Sanders. This is the second time I’ve seen this falsehood put forth as fact in two days.
From what fetid pool of misinformation is this rising?
2
If it is legally and morally right and justifiable for a baker or a florist to deny their services to a gay couple because of his firmly-held moral values, then it is equally right and justifiable for a restiurant owner to deny her service to SHS based on his firmly-held moral values.
It doesn't matter if the baker claims that his "values" are based on his religious beliefs; the resauranteur maybe holds a different creed, or none at all, but that doesn't make his values are less morally valid. After all, the Ten Commandments forbids lies just as strongly as the Bible forbids homosexuality; legal opinions and moral judgments shouldn't be based on arbitrarily cherry-picking Bible verses.
Besides, it's not illegal to discriminate against someone because of their political beliefs. Sanders can't sue the restaurant.
Once again, politicians, religious leaders, and pundits show themselves to be hypocrites: It's OK for Christians to "make a political statement" by trying to block access to abortion clinics; it's OK for Trump to throw Liberals out of his rallies; it's OK for commenters on Rightwing media to say disgusting things and promote violence against Liberals; it's OK for the NFL to prohibit players from making political statements; but it's not OK for a restauranteur to express his views in the same way.
A double-helping of double-standards.
39
The Masterpiece Cake Shop case was wrongly decided. Religious beliefs of the owner should not be used to decide who gets served at a business that serves the public. If you believe that, which most readers here probably do, then it is not a justification to deny service to SHS. While Trump is probably our worst president ever, and SHS is a shill for his lies, it does not advance the cause of democracy, or a return to a less partisan era, to discriminate against her by refusing service based on one’s political belief. We are better off making society civil and leading by example rather than separating everyone into immutable political tribes that reside only at the far ends of the political spectrum and do not interact, let alone ever agree.
2
I'm not sure you understand that segregation is a gate that swings both ways. Perhaps you want to be admitted as a fully-vetted citizen even though you don't abide by the domains of our state. That is, that you would be willing to uphold our shared principles over and above your own. If not, perhaps you should purchase your own island.
In any event, it has been defended in the courts, which as a conservative, you must support, that it is free for a businessperson to refuse service to those she deems undesirerable, unless they subscribe to a protected class, whichg political view is not one. Your claim of first amendment rights, if such you claim, is non-responsive.
You may not be a member of a group pernicious to a democratic, free society!
5
Stephanie Wilkinson behaved admirably when she asked Ms. Sanders to leave the restaurant. Ms. Wilkinson's conduct cannot be described as harassment nor uncivil. She took Ms. Sanders outside the restaurant to make her request. She did not shriek obscenities nor outrageous lies in the middle of the dining room. That, as we well know, is the president's signature behavior. And Ms. Sanders defends it.
What seems to be forgotten here is that, in coming to the restaurant, Ms. Sanders surely expected to be served by Ms. Wilkinson's employees with politeness and good humor. Can anyone who has been outraged by the president's policies and lies manage to politely serve a person who has a national platform to daily support the president? I think not. I think if Ms. Wilkinson had not requested Ms. Sanders to leave, Ms. Sanders and her companions may have received service from restaurant staff who could not conceal their anger at a person whose defense of the president is impossible to accept.
Finally, I applaud Ms. Wilkinson's determination to stand up for values and principles which are in direct opposition to those which spew from this president's mouth. Would that the politicians who refuse to speak up had such a spine!
143
The only reason not to use this tactic of shaming is that it results in more positive press for this administration. It also does not help the protesters who mimic the president and some of his strident supporters by name calling, labeling and hateful speech.
2
The things that shape us are varied, aren't they?
There was a Looney Tunes cartoon that I watched as a child in the 1960s. In it, a sheepdog and a wolf greeted one another with a "Good morning, Ralph" and "'Morning, Sam" exchange just before they punched their cards at the time clock. Each then took up his position as protecting the flock or trying to attack the flock. At the end of the day, they had a bookend "See you tomorrow, Ralph" exchange.
Obviously that stuck with me. And it's how I've long thought about work life and personal life -- mine and others.
I write letters weekly, I give money to my moderate Republican Congresswoman because she's thoughtful and temperate in speech and conduct. I contribute comments here and on other websites. But I don't attack anybody personally, and I think it's unkind and a moral wrong to interrupt someone with protest while they're on their private time or at their home.
Nope, I don't spend much time with people who are ardent and obsessive Trump supporters. And I don't spend much time with people who are consumed with "the resistance". Those relationships have fallen away from me to the extent that people seem less capable of having life outside their tribe and/or just being decent. Newsflash: sometimes it's not about Trump.
I think the way Sarah Sanders was treated was unkind and wrong at the same time as I cringe every time she opens her mouth. I don't care about the whatabouts or the electoral politics.
11
"Unkind." Your premise is that tearing infants from the arms of their mothers is just another political issue we disagree about. I wouldn't ask a politician to leave my restaurant over ag policy or trade policy, but there is a social cost to incipient fascism: ostracism.
3
Heckling and shaming individuals who’re among the wealthiest, most privileged, powerful and influential players in government who shape policy and legislation for every man woman and child in this country cannot be reduced to a matter of civility. Our Congress has all but abandoned the country to an obscene interloper. When it’s all said and done, I won’t be counted among those who did nothing and were commended for their good manners.
19
In sports, the game is improved by a skilled and fair minded referee. Our democracy should have an analog in the combined “wisdom” and actions of our three branches of government—and the press. We’re so far off the rails at this point that many readers of that sentence will roll their eyes.
Whether you think that the hacking away at the foundation of our democracy began with Nixon, Reagan, Gingrich or Clinton, we are now living in an environment characterized by the intolerance of the other side. Sometimes the other side’s actions or views are abhorrent, but our democracy demands that we think carefully about the refs and the rules of the game.
I understand despising Ms. Sanders’ behavior in support of this wholly incompetent administration. I wouldn’t have wanted to serve her, or to support her pleasant evening in any way. But this already has had way more press than warranted. One privileged white woman was denied service in a restaurant and that demands another angels on the head of a pin column from Douthat. Really? And you write about finding balance in protests so that the protests don’t tick off the people who are undermining our very foundation...
5
If it is the constitutional right of bakers and florists to refuse to provide goods and services for gay weddings, and for pharmacists to refuse to dispense prescriptions for oral contraceptives and misopristol, why is it unacceptable for a restaurant owner to deny services to potential customers whose beliefs and actions are contrary to their own?
23
Mary, I see a difference between a vendor refusing to provide a specific product (but willing to make and sell others to the same customer), and a vendor refusing to do business with a certain customer.
I agree. There is a distinction between refusal of service and non violent protest. People open for business should not discriminate. On the other hand, if a crowd wants to gather around her and chant something like, "Try the truth. Try the truth," I'm all for it.
3
I think we need a little clarity on the issue of when does a business open to the public have a right to refuse someone service. The answer should be never. Obviously, if it had been Valerie Jarrett or Loretta Lynch from the Obama admin, no restaurant owner, regardless of their political views, would have turned them away.
It is a slightly different issue when you are asked to cater an event or provide entertainment. The baker who refused to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple on religious grounds also had in the past served gay and lesbian customers who wanted to buy something in his shop. This may be somewhat of a fine distinction, but once you start catering for an event -- or provide entertainment -- you to some extent become part of the event. If for example you are in a band and you play for a wedding, that's a little bit more involvement with those holding the event than just playing in a club. So if I were in a hypothetical band and we were asked to play for Hillary Clinton's election celebration and I was an ardent Republican, I may not want to play at that event as I would have to feign approval and support for HRC. Even if I'm a musician for hire, I don't think I should be forced to play at events supporting things I don't agree with. On the other hand, if I'm playing in public in a bar or club and HRC or her staff came in, I would be out of line to say I refuse to play until they leave.
2