Perhaps we can all reach a happy compromise with the 1950's-era fans of this event and the rest of modernity by simply renaming the event:
The Miss American Meat Market Pageant..... live from Atlantic City on ABC...don't miss this prehistoric classic !
19
Too little too late. No one cares about this antiquated “contest”. Let’s see how many woman larger than a size 2 they have in the contest... yeah I thought so
16
With the coming of the Playboy magazine in the early 1950s such "meat shows" had already become superfluous. That it took almost 70 years for the decision to drop such spectacles is a pity. But it shows the immoral greed of all these organizers. Shame!
1
Why continue to have the pageant at all? We are being bombarded by efforts to establish a gender neutral society where everyone is equal. Time to end it and put the $$ involved to better use.
6
I'll believe the pageant isn't about looks when an intelligent, accomplished, civic-minded, physically fit young woman with limp hair, a bad complexion and a big nose is the winner.
6
I’m sorry but this is just an egregious example of how the MeToo movement is going too far. Do people really think that just because these women are not wearing a bikini that their outer looks aren’t being judged by both men & women? It’s absolutely ridiculous and will be the beginning of the end of the Miss America competition. It had already lost its luster over the past decade or two but this will kill it off finally. Guess the Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition is next. Uggh!
6
Welcome! We put a whole new face on the objectification of one of two sexes for money! Please enjoy.
3
This almost makes me--a college student who has never before worn a bikini but who is rather well-spoken and knowledgeable about current issues--want to compete in something like Miss America. After all, if I'm not being judged on my body, I'll be judged on my brains, something I'm quite okay with.
2
Unless a woman has had "work done," physical beauty is the result of luck and good genes passed down from good-looking parents. A woman can be “well-spoken, intelligent, talented, able to relate to young people,... charismatic, dynamic/energetic" but not have perfect eyes, nose, lips, skin, figure etc. Good looks aren't achieved and shouldn't be part of the judging.
1
I would assume men watch these types of shows in order to check out beautiful women. Probably the women too. Listening to a contestant talk about world peace or her life goals sounds boring in the extreme.
Most of the truly accomplished women that I know are scientists, teachers, mothers, and artists. Not one of them would ever enter this sort of contest, even without the swimsuit part. Truly accomplished women are out there in the world "doing," not entering contests or pageants, or whatever you want to call them.
They are turning a farce with eye candy into just a farce. Count me out.
5
If the contest is not about appearance, the contestants shouldn't put in an appearance. Make it an essay contest for high school seniors, with the prizes scholarships to Southern New Hampshire University online school. That would be progress.
7
The weird thing is that it is mainly women who watch this pageant. Men couldn't be more bored. True, men invented it as a means of making money, but that is the extent of their interest in it.
6
Thanks, NYT. - Miss Tennessee 1965 looks really amazing!
1
How about scrap the entire, mysoginistic beauty pageant and have both women and men earn scholarships via study habits, good grades, and community service? No pageant needed.
11
Ms. Carlson said Tuesday that the swimsuit portion of the competition was “not a highly rated part,”. People actually like the talent part of the competition,”... Whaaaat??? Says who? I haven't seen the pageant for many years...since college to be precise. But I can promise you no one...no one who was tuning in to see in Miss Georgia play Beethoven's Moon Light Sonata on the harp...except for laughs. Eliminating the swimsuit competition will guarantee two things (1) every straight male will tune out & (2) the ratings will be a disaster. Which is great. Another SJW embarrassment. Of course lets be honest...all the people applauding this move... they were never going to watch anyway. They just wanted to destroy another...albeit cheesy...but still innocuous conservative American institution. Truthfully given the state of our over sexualized culture the swim suit competition is about as chaste as it gets. I won't be watching either...not exactly my cup of tea...but I think the Jacobin feminists driving this train are complete hypocrites. Take any modern pop star...Beyonce or Madonna...their stage presentation& outfits wouldn't seem out of place at Scores pole dancing competition. But they get a pass because they are "woke"...yes? I won't even mention the various award shows where the women are encouraged & praised for their provocative attire. These fanatics deserved to be mocked with an SNL skit. Way over due I would say. Lighten up people or get a life. It's a beauty pageant.
10
Women have a pretty good life in America if this show is a problem.
4
Good, another failed tv series. Without the swimsuits, who is going to watch? Does anyone really care about their opinions or want to see their less than professional dancing, piano playing and hog calls?
5
I think I've watched the Miss America pageant maybe once or twice in my lifetime - I see nothing wrong with the swim suit and evening wear attire events. Taking away these two events - then there's really no point to watching this contest.
4
For all the people calling for end to the pageant, it's very shortsighted. I don't watch beauty pageants, but I do recognize the opportunity that exists here to be a platform for engaging conversations regarding women's talent, goals and achievement in the world. Evidence for this is right in front of you. Why would you want to end that conversation.
Let's replace the beauty pageant with a new kind of pageant - open to all genders, and flip the focus - let's make the question "how will you make the world a better place" the most fascinating part.
3
I was glad to see the end of the swim suit . It will help put off the pressure for the many women who can't maintain the strict dieting required. I personally did not think there was nothing wrong with the one piece suits. I feel they will have to change the name as it is no longer a beauty contest. In America many viewers will stop watching because who wants to see all brainy woman talking on politics or any topics. Unfortunately people are turned off by brainy people both men and women. They have been around forever and the country is not any better in getting along with each other with their knowledge. Present example Trump a supposedly genius and look how much divisiveness he causes daily.
I would love to see football, ice hockey, boxing and UFC, and Miss America go the way of the dodo, but we must acknowledge the fact that we are human animals. For instance, people will smoke, but we don't have to advertise the fact on TV and in the movies. People will gamble, but we don't have to glorify it (although poker is played up on cable TV). The best we can reasonably expect for the immediate future is that sports of extreme violence are relegated to cable TV, like boxing and UFC. The same will be true of Miss America -- our prurient instincts will always require an outlet -- so the current Miss America fight is really about persevering to make it not such a high-profile one. Trump summed it up in noting that when he made the swimsuits smaller and the heels higher, ratings went up. There is money to be made, and it is not illegal. Miss America 2.0 is a victory for gender equality, but we need to keep our heads grounded with reasonable expectations. That is the most prudent way to continue moving forward.
3
What's Donald going to watch on a Saturday night now?
3
Millennials much prefer posting themselves online
No pageant needed
14
They've tossed their ratings into the trash can along with the swimsuits.
2
A tempest in a C-cup. Just let it die out. And it WILL.
10
Any thinking person is probably sympathetic to the concept of eliminating the bathing suit competition. The problem is that Gretchen Carlson’s statement is demonstrably false: “We are not going to judge you on your outward appearance.” Of course contestants are judged on whether they are beautiful or not. I’m not sure what the appropriate adjective is here, but “unattractive” women need not apply.
Removing the swimsuit event doesn’t really change this from a pageant to a competition. If it is a true competition, we have to admit that a huge, huge percentage of young women already lost that competition at birth.
11
True. It's called a "beauty pageant," not a "talent pageant" or even a "high IQ pageant." Personally, I'd like to see it become a thing of the past.
To paraphrase someone on her Twitter feed: I always watch the Miss America Pageant for the articles.
1
Miss America is boring. There are plenty of other TV shows that do the same thing but with better production.
3
Political correct, yes, marketable NO like it or not Sex sells.
2
It certainly does - in a sexually repressed culture (like ours).
1
I think the obvious answer to this move is to have a competing event where there will be a swimsuit competition. I'll be watching. I also think Gretchen Carlson will be distantly remembered as the person who destroyed the Miss America Pageant.
1
I don't see the beauty pageant as some sort of instrument of patriarchal oppression. It's no different than a bodybuilder contest where a bunch of scantily clad men or women flex on stage. There's likely a fun aspect to the pageantry at least with regards to women who like doing makeup, their hair, and maintaining their physique.
The titillating factor is mostly gone now thanks to the internet so seeing a bunch of shapely women in swimsuits doesn't exactly get the pulse going which is probably the main reason why these changes are happening. But if these women want to compete, go for it.
Would women in the US trade the overwhelming numbers over men in college and law school in exchange for no Miss America competition? Let’s keep some perspective. The Miss America competition is not a social problem any more than college basketball players being paid by shoe companies months before they turn pro. Social problems are school dropouts, crime, drug abuse, gang violence, teen suicide, sexual abuse, etc.This story is meaningless. You will find more bikinis poolside at a Disney World resort hotel.
1
Who's holding guns to the heads of the women in this competition to force them to participate?
5
A beauty pageant started by wealthy men in an era when women had no political/financial/cultural clout and zero options - one could say American culture put a gun to their heads.
1
Still the situation?
As a man, I'm sure my opinion is invalid, however, I've never seen the value in beauty pageants. The only people I know that watch or follow them are women and one of my gay friends. I think pretty women will always enjoy being seen and there will always be a drive for pageantry and it will be pretty women doing the pushing.
On the flip side, women who are insecure, or struggled with insecurity, about their physical selves will always deride and attack such things. This kind of competition plays out everywhere there are groups of people. You can get rid of Miss America, but you can't get ride of the competitive drive in women that created beauty pageants.
2
I went to high school - back in the 1960's - in one of the small towns in suburban Westchester Count - a few miles north of New York City -
Our community was basically very liberal and ahead of the social curve - with a majority of our residents (certainly my high school community) being very involved in the anti-war and civil rights movements during that time --
One of my high school classmates was a tall, beautiful blonde young woman - a Straight- A honors student with athletic skills and an exceptional musical talent on a major instrument --
When we learned that our friend had entered a local "Miss Small Town" beauty pageant - we gave her a hard time - as in "What are you doing?" - albeit
good -naturedly --
As she climbed the pageant ladder - winning each contest - we continued to rib her about it - but not seriously --
Then - when she became Miss New York State and made it to the top-ten finalists in the Miss America Pageant - playing her instrument on national television - we weren't laughing any more - we were cheering her on and beaming with pride --
Our friend was eliminated at that point - but we were happy for her successes -
That was the end of her career as a "beauty contestant" -- after which time she went to college - and then on to medical school --
For the past forty years or so - our Miss New York State has been one of the leading pediatric doctors here in NY City -- where she could have treated you and/or your daughter during that time...
2
As I head to my classroom today to review for a final exam in a Gender & Sexuality Studies course on the second-wave feminist movement, I'm happy to see commentary by Alix Shulman, Gloria Steinem, and Robin Morgan on this story. I agree with the overall tenor of their remarks--this may be a "start" but it's surely a far cry from the more radical visions of social equality that were central to the Women's Liberation Movement 50 years ago. Central to that movement, inextricable from its visions for women's full development as human beings, was a commitment to economic justice. Of course it's great that parading around in bathing suits before judges is recognized by the Miss America corporation as obviously degrading--who would not affirm how important such recognition is? But it's a far cry from the dreams of radical egalitarianism fueling women's demands for social revolution 50 years ago. The opening of today's article, which insinuates that #MeToo somehow achieved progress that the second wave could not produce, assumes a false equivalence. The second wave's most radical visions of full human equality were inextricably also visions of the end of class oppression (since women, and especially women of color, happen to be the most economically vulnerable and exploited under capitalism during and after slavery). That mandate which has entirely dropped out of the meaning of "feminism" today.
13
Crowning an individual from a lineup of competitors, in front of an audience is still degradation of all the non-winners, no less in a very visible setting. Even without the 'beauty' factors, you're still saying one person is more charming, more interesting, and more intelligent than all the others. I can't watch contests at all, they are simply mean and insensitive.
4
No one is forced to enter
"Miss America" is too presumptive a title, as if to say the winner represents the ideal woman in the eyes of all Americans. It should really be called "Miss What-Men-Like-Donald-Trump-Think-A-Woman-Should-Be".
20
A whole contest consisting of chain dragging stories, tin-pan talent contests and no swimsuits? Who's going to watch that?
5
Ivana and Melania Trump made the most of competitively wearing swimsuits on their way to fame and fortune. Indeed, Melania was photographed in her birthday suit.
Goodbye swimsuit competition. Hello, what's the point? Miss America is a physical beauty contest. It is not a brain mental competition.
12
Great article, pictures!
How about no pageants? It is a time gone by.
35
Really, hasn't been relevant for years.
4
Who is going to want to watch this? Women of all sizes showing their faux talents and dreams for world peace? Is this a joke?
23
I tried submitting this in the "What got you into doing beauty pageants?" but had no success - there was not "submit" option or button. Apologies for using this comment section for my submission.
While I was never in a beauty pageant, my older sister was back in the early 1970s. She was 19 and was looking for a way to make money to pay for college. That was her primary goal. Back then, the scholarship money from a beauty pageant was substantial and could have paid for most of her education. But she also wanted to “compete” because of the many benefits that came with the pageant. She learned discipline, self-confidence, hard work, and how to manage her time among other things. She loved the camaraderie and friendship with the other gals, she thought her female coaches were inspiring and extremely helpful.
At the end of her experience, she learned and felt better about herself than she thought possible. One of her biggest challenges was to talk in public and to articulate her thinking and speaking abilities. Her disappointment came not from getting chosen, but for not winning the scholarship money.
In the final analysis of everything, she said then and still feels the same way – that her biggest reward was feeling confident and self-empowered and that she could do anything she set her mind to. She went on to college and graduated with a degree in teaching, finding employment to help pay for her education.
7
She could probably have gained the same confidence speaking in public if she had invested her time in Toastmasters or maybe join an improv group. This is what I have always recommended to young people who were timid in public situations.
5
I agree completely, but back then, organizations like Toastmasters or improv groups weren't even on the map much less on the radar in most of rural Wisconsin. Great advise for today! My work location sponsors Toastmasters classes.
1
The last time I recall watching the Miss America contest was sometime in the early '60's, when I was still in high school. Then, I discovered Playboy. After that, Miss America no longer had much allure. And the articles in the magazine were much better than the talent competitions, too.
2
The Miss America pageant is privately owned and thus well within its rights to transform itself from a contest of American beauty into whatever it wants. The news item here is the intellectual premise upon which the change is being made.
The idea here is that it is degrading for women to be judged based upon their physical appearance and that contests in which beauty is a factor must be driven from the planet. The same ideas are driving movements to ban NFL cheerleaders and to discourage beauty-based advertising. Given the references to the Me Too movement as an impetus for the change, there is a strong connection to the intersectional feminist meme that valuing female beauty in any way is a form of "toxic masculinity," which must be shamed, prohibited and prosecuted out of existence.
If beauty pageants are important to Americans, other organizations will emerge to sponsor them. Either way it's no big deal. I am concerned, however, whenever one rabid group seeks to dictate what others should do or believe. The idea that we, as a society, MUST eliminate by shame, dictate or prohibition any preferences for physical beauty seems a step way too far.
What has become of our society that so many of us feel compelled to demand that our ideas become mandatory? I think it is the fact that we have come to fear individual liberty, but cherish group entitlement and forced conformity. That, it seems to me, is a sign of a weakening and declining society.
5
Don't worry, AR Cowboy, there will always be strip clubs, pornography and dog shows for fans of idiotic 'beauty contests'.
In the meantime, perhaps we can channel our energy into real freedom from religious fundamentalists seeking to enforce their divine bigotry and delusion in public squares from sea to shining sea.
No one fears liberty, but we sure can't stand the warped misanthropic right-wing, religious version of Free-Dumb and a national shooting gallery.
23
At this point just randomly select from a pool of qualified applicants. No purchase necessary. Need not be present to win.
5
What radio station will this Miss America Pageant be broadcast on....I wouldn't want to miss it!
44
I am a big feminist but in my view, a beauty pageant is a beauty pageant. It is not primarily a venue where Harvard and Oxford shop for students. A brilliant GPA will not get you a lead in a ballet at Lincoln Center... nor will a swimsuit body get you into Oxbridge. There is room for both.. as long as the two criteria are not conflated.
29
I do not see how this decision furthers the so-called metoo movement. It strikes me that the decision here to eliminate a competition for women is actually foreclosing legitimate opportunities for self expression from them. Women who participated in these competitions were not coerced or forced to do so; they were not slaves. They voluntarily chose to do so and likely enjoyed participating in the competition.
15
Shouldn't men be permitted to participate in this contest? Excluding them would be discriminatory.
12
Not that it would be it any less vapid, but yes, why not?
5
I'm sorry, but it's still a beauty competition, and those women who do not meet the standard definition of outward beauty will never get a chance to win a scholarship through Miss America.
12
It's all over. No swimsuit contest then no Miss America pageant. And most importantly no advertisers.
3
I challenge the event organizers to estimate how many people will actually watch this event on national tv now. It will likely be a tiny group. An event predicated on completely canned, rehearsed, and practiced answers is nearly as interesting as watching wall-paper peel. Strip the physical component from this "event" and watch ratings and viewership collapse. What they fail to realize is that this "pageant" is purely entertainment. No amount of self-righteous or PC behavior by the event organizers will change this. The "pageant" will become irrelevant soon.
11
I'm sure it could find a few viewers on the Hallmark channel.
Interesting to see how the principle of covering the female body on other cultures is recriminated while today we read this article.
I am not judging any, wondering perhaps how they are intrinsically related on their own genesis.
Sexual education and values are missing.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is really evolving.
3
The Miss America pageant has outlived its usefulness if it ever had any.In a world where women are respected surgeons, college presidents and fighter pilots it is just too anachronistic to have women vying for beauty points.Their goal should be mental and physical health and a road map to work which will be challenging and rewarding.
21
I thought Miss America was a beauty contest, and as such, there would be people deciding whether the participants were physically beautiful enough. Not something that interests me, but obviously something that interested so many people that it became a huge success.. If Miss America is not a beauty contest, what is it, then?
10
Fair question. Is it "America's Got Talent" but for women only? Is it a debate competition? Should contestants not be seen at all for fear that physical beauty would still be subliminally considered by judges? Is the evening gown segment still ok but not the swimsuit? Lots of questions still remain. Doesn't sound like the decision makers thought this through..
2
I have a hunch that this will go the way of Playboy's "no nudity" policy. People don't watch Miss America because of the contestants' personalities.
There is a legitimate argument to be had about if this has any place in a modern society (I would say no), but pretending that it is or has ever been about anything other than outer beauty is a joke. I agree with Ms Zeilinger in that the women will still be judged. And just because the women are no longer in bikinis and night gowns does not mean that their beauty won't factor into the judges' decisions.
38
Agreed. The Miss America Pageant is over. Good. But the parading of women in underwear is alive and well in rock shows and beach scene advertising Victoria's Secret. No secret there. Big money. Sell out shows. The key word is sellout - by all involved. Teach the children.
How can we not succumb to pretty? I visited NY and went to the new Gucci store. I really wanted that 3500.00 jacket and 1000.00 T.
4
There are so many things to be said about the Miss America Pageant and this article, ranging from the pageant's decades-long lack of responsiveness to the central issues of evaluating women in a cattle call to the article's facile attribution of today's "victory" to #metoo. But the most important, it seems to me, is a question: Why have this pageant at all? Does America need to pick out a representative "ideal" woman every year? Does this not say loud and clear that we still consider men to be the group to talk to and women the decorations to catch their eye? End the pageant now, Miss America, and be on the leading edge of meaningful change for once.
46
If you deny you have ever admired an athlete ‘s body, you’re being dishonest. If you deny you have ever admired a ballerina’s body, you’re being dishonest. If you deny you have ever admired a sunbather at a beach, you’re being dishonest. So here we are again confusing progressive thinking with eliminating the swim suit competition (don’t flaunt your body; it’s too sexual to look at). Another form of body shaming. Samantha Bee, and now Miss America, continue to set back the Metoo movement.
17
We are a hypocritical society aren't we.
Women stroll down the street every day in what is basically underwear, leaving little to the imagination (and who knows how many of them feel this is necessary to be accepted rather than a "feminist victory", as is often claimed).
And then we ditch a tradition whose participants are all there voluntarily. The bottom line is that humans in the west like to see a bit of flesh now and then, so instead let's just introduce the male equivalent?
Otherwise, we're just a dismal, dismal bunch of hypocrites: flaunting it on the street and being righteous on tv. This is, I'm sorry to say, Blue State cultural war at its worst, and y'll know who this is going to benefit...
12