EU has never challenged Italy for the root cause of its problems: corruption.
Is that because they just care about money, or they are just useless or because this weakening condition could be favorable to some powerful international speculators allegedly tied with crime syndicates?
1
Running government by Twitter and clicks seems suicidal in the age of hacking. On a lighter note: a computer somewhere has decided that the ad I will respond to while reading this article is for tour packages to Italy. "Come See Italy in A Whole New Way," it urges me, complete with the "a" capped. Indeed.
1
This is happening for two reasons - immigration stance from the EU (Germany) and the economic/unemployment conditions in Italy. The second has been going on for a very long time. People were mostly okay with it because they worked a shorter work week and many/most had protections via government mandate - couldn't be fired, nice pensions, etc. Italy is not known for its productive workforce. However, given the economic conditions and high unemployment among the youth, it's not surprising that people are made about caring for all the immigrants coming in. Feel for those whose countries stink, whose governments are corrupt, and for those whom do not receive the aid from the west (going into the corrupt government). But cannot condone the open border agenda from a well-meaning EU. This isn't about refugees, its about economic migration and cannot be sustained.
4
The will of the voters, as expressed in the outcome of a democratic election, should not be seen at all as a threat to Europe, unless Europe or more specifically, the EU, is not aligned with democracy and / or the will of the people in the first place. Some people could be forgiven for mistaking the EU as a bureaucracy and not a democracy anyway.
50% of Italians have made their choice for this coalition of the number 1 and number 2 vote-getters in the Italian election. There should not have been any doubt whatsoever that the coalition would be green-lighted by the Italian head of state.
It took 2 months and 3 weeks to form this government, they should not lose any more time in enacting their planned reforms, especially regarding immigration, which was most probably the number 1 issue that Italians voted on.
4
I am glad to see countries restating their individuality. Hopefully they will all come to realize the true enemies are the international banks and corporations, and take appropriate measures against them in unison.
4
Have you noticed that the one group that does best economically under the current "populism" is the elite and wealthy in this country?
They like nothing more than their phony "man of the people" Donald, whose policies and appointments and judicial picks are the biggest wet kiss (bigger even than the unwanted ones he planted on the women he has grossed out his whole life) to the wealthy, corporate interests and powerful insiders (let's coin a new term "Deep Elite") we've ever seen in our democracy.
The populist bull has a simple formula.
Simple enough that average working people all over the country are catching on.
It is this:
We'll stroke your anger and give you phony promises about solutions to your economic woes while we continue to shove wealth and opportunity upward to a tight circle of friends and ultra rich.
You get lies and people to blame (immigrants who actually add economic strength to America) while we, the Deep Elite, tilt the game toward OUR wish list and away from you, your kid's future, your struggling communities.
Watch out for that pothole because the budget to fix it was slashed! Sorry populists!
My recommendation:
Punch the cheats hiding behind their new scam - populism - right in the face.
Assail their theories, conclusion and woeful track record (Harley Davidson anyone?).
These are side show con men whose circus is social media and cyber crime.
This is all a new way to keep you and I fighting ourselves instead of them.
Reject it!!
5
Not just populism on the rise in much of Europe but also bigotry and nationalism, which easily elides into its close relative, fascism. And this isn't the WW II era: who will stand as a bulwark of freedom and resistance in the west? The U.S.? England? We have entered a new era and that frightens me terribly.
5
Let's keep this simple. Twice in the 20th Century European nationalism and irredentism set off cataclysmic World Wars that together killed nearly 100 million lives
Twice the United States, in simplest terms, saved Europe's cookies at the cost of 100,000 American lives in WWI and more than 425,000 in WWII.
While leading not only the U.S. but the entire world through the war with Italian Fascism, German Nazism and Japanese Imperialism FDR designed a post-war world to prevent Europe ever again from listening to and following 'the worst angels of its nature'.
Now revanchist, nationalist, backward looking, racists across Europe lead their peoples into dark pits of hate, ignorance, fear and the economic failure that breeds wars, that bred two world wars.
This time our ally, ironically, would be Germany.
But this time, I for one as an American say first, no - no more. We must not rescue Europe one more time from its folly.
And even if we wanted to, we cannot because:
we cannot afford it; this is a nuclear world; we ourselves are in the grip of an autocratic, dangerous, ignorant regime -- not an administration but a regime.
So if the Europeans are bound and determined to impale themselves once more, let them do it understanding that this time it won't be to the strains of,
"Send the word, send the word to beware: that the Yanks, the Yanks are coming, they're come, come coming over there."
Enough is more than enough of a broken Europe. See where it gets you this time.
1
Just 75 years after fascists last ruled Italy which ended with mobs hanging Mussolini and his wife on the streets they’re back at it again. It couldn’t of been more of the disaster with the people of Italy and the world. Don’t the people of Italy know that this is what Russia wants? They want to break up the EU to empower Russia and Putin? How stupid is this?
2
Italy is on its way to reclaim the title of “sick man of Europe”. The country is deeply divided, not just politically and socially, but also geographically.
The populist Five Star Movement (M5S) is particularly strong in the impoverished south, the far-right Northern League is powerful in the industrial north. The Venetians and the German-speaking South Tyroleans despise their “lazy” southerners and are increasingly dreaming about autonomy, or even independence.
A coalition government of the Northern League and M5S will not last, and many Italians may soon have enough of them.
4
it's not "Northern League"; now it's just called "League". Its aim isn't to make the North independent anymore.
1
Instead of its glorious history if Italy decides to revisit its Fascist past it should be prepared to reap its harvest also.
1
Let's not forget the collapse of the Weimar Republic. Harold James, Princeton, Ten Weimar Lessons.
Being a citizen of a country whose voters elected Mr. Trump, how can I criticize the voters of a country who elected Mr. Berlusconi, and are about to seat Mr. Conte?
4
Italy will finally bring the madness in Europe, started by the despicable leader of Germany, Merkel, to an end. The German AfD will keep on rising and eventually stop this immigration fiasco.
9
One of the fundamental causes of the current Italian situation, as well as Brexit and other problems brewing in countries across Europe reside with the Brussels bureaucracy of the EU. The EU has become a self perpetuating organization that is undemocratic, unaccountable, power hungry and arrogant. The people of Europe never voted for the EU to be established and are feed up by its trying to extend tentacles into the everyday lives of its citizens. Then there is the creation of the Euro, a bogus currency at best. In the 1990s virtually every credible economist warned that it was a bad idea, only to be dismissed as missing the point that it was political, not economic. Rules were established for entry and quickly fudged. Rules were established to how nations would control debt and were quickly ignored. Hence the problems of Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Ireland exploded, before or during the financial crisis. Then the rigidity of the Euro value, which only really benefits the Germans (a first world economy operating on third world currency), torpedoed recovery across Europe, even to this day. So the rise of populists maybe a problem but lets point the finger were it belongs.
9
We must remind Italy, that if Europe returns to its pre-1945 state of nearly constant internecine wars, Americans won't again die to save them .
1
Lets re write the Headline to reflect reality
Tired of years of economic stagnation due to poor policy choices by pro EU elites, Italians vote for change
5
This time it's not another edition of the Italians shooting themselves in the foot in the voting booth. The EU has let Italy down in dealing with mass immigration from Africa and the Middle East. The Italians had to resort to shady deals with Libya to stop the influx and it's not enough by a long shot. Juncker, Merkel et al need to realise that there is no way to keep the EU politically stable unless there is a serious cut in mass immigration. In fact, the EU needs to invest heavily in guarding its southern borders and change compassion and humanity from generously accepting refugees to increased foreign aid.
14
What could ail Italy ?
A numbers based analysis
Country.....Corruption Index (2017) ..... GDP per Capita $
Northern Europe:
Denmark........... 88 ............ $43, 652
Switzerland .... 85 ........... $ 54, 668
Sweden..... ...... 84 ........... $45, 537
Netherlands ..... 82 ........... $47, 743
UK ................... 82 ........... $39, 199
Germany ........ 81 ........... $43, 873
Central Europe:
France............... 70 ........... $37, 697
Southern Europe:
Spain .................. 57 ........... $33,706
Italy .................. 50 ........... $34,097
Greece.............. 48 ........... $24,189
For comparison: Spain has the corruption rating as Dominica, Italy’s equals Jordan’s, Greece’s equals Mauritius
Data
Data: https://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?DataSetCode=PDB_LV
https://www.transparency.org/news/feature/corruption_perceptions_index_2017
2
But still... that's corruption PERCEPTIONS index. People may have a biased perception on what is going on.
This is why they are voting for a change. Corruption high and salaries are kept low. Honest Italians are tired of feeding a spoiled corrupt and useless elite. Italians politicians are the best paid in the world. And after a 4 year mandate they get a 5k monthly pension. How fair is this?
4
Horowitz writes: "It also gave fresh energy to the nationalist impulses tugging at the Continent."
This formulation is conventional wisdom, but it gets things backwards. The underlying nature of nationalism hasn't changed much over the decades in Europe. What has changed is that internationalist forces, events, and trends have put nationalism under pressure.
If you dropped a weight on a trampoline and then watched the weight bounce in the air, it would be odd to conclude that that the trampoline was bouncier than before you dropped the weight.
If you don't like nationalism in Europe, stop dropping weights on it.
4
The Italians should remember life before the Euro when it took 1,700 lire to buy a dollar, and a portion of meat was sliced so thin you could literally see through it. Now Italians eat the same quantities of meat as the rest of Europe (except the Germans), and enjoy World Class train service that Americans should envy. Italy, get your finances in order. Leaving the Euro would also hurt tourism, a mainstay of the economy.
3
New government's aim isn't to leave the EU, nor the currency.
Trump isn't a problem because he is a populist; Trump is a problem because he is a clown.
Despite the NYT's elitist stance, populism can be good. Let's give the Italian populists a chance.
5
Trump may be a 'populist' and a clown but the real problem is that he is a con man and someone distorts things and lies constantly. He is a complete disaster for most Americans. Unfortunately many Americans voted for him with the stupid slogan 'Make America Great Again'. I wish I had French citizenship even though I know France has it share of problems.
3
In EU:
"Populist" = Not Leftist Extremist
8
Stop giving things new names, they have little meaning except maybe sensationalism? Populist is merely a nicer word than "Intolerant Racist". But they are the same. Intolerant Racist political parties are taking over. It's like everything human - cannot stop the mob. Maybe all we are is ants, who simply pile onto every crumb of sugar for little reason other than it is sweet?
3
When did Libyan become a race? No need for neologisms perhaps but correct use of existing vocabulary might help you understand the subject matter a little better.
5
The current Schengen/Dublin regulation involves a super restrictive visa policy which leads to illegal immigration and to the abuse of the asylum process. The result is many thousands of deaths in the Mediterranian Sea and in the Sahara, the rise of organized crime in human trafficking, costly and lengthy asylum and repatriation procedures.
Front line states in Europe, like Greece or Italy, bear the brunt. In the face of European unwillingness to take on reform, the rise of populists is the consequence. With the ascension to power by the populist 5-star movement and the Lega in one of the founding states of the European community, the message for Europe is clear. It is time to reinvent the European House, it is time for reform. One of them being a migration/refugee/tourist policy which is closer to reality, encompassing for instance:
- Freedom of movement for refugees in the entire Schengen area
- Processing of asylum applications at the embassies in the country of origin rather than in the countries of destination
- Visa Waiver for most African countries
Reforms such as these would [imho] significantly reduce the abuse of the asylum process and increase tourism, to the mutual benefit of all involved.
5
We can't host all Africa in Europe!
Most of the illegals are selling drugs and committing crimes and they don't care for hard work. The people who can pay for being smuggled from Africa are very often felons. It is a fact.
4
Dear NYT,
hoping this post will be approved and published I cannot but underline that your articles regarding Italy are not fair.
I noted that there is disparity every time an article discusses the situation in Italy which is always dafted by the same bouch of correspondets on which the NYT relies on.
This is not acceptable any longer. I have to say that the election made clear that some changes have to be made in the next few months.
I would suggest that NYT will start working on the issues arosen from the outcome of the election also because, as Mr Berlusconi confirmes, we are 20 years in advance in respect of the USA which had attended up to few months ago to see Mr Trump as their President.
1
Freedom from a hodgepodge of philosophical confusion is breaking out all over Europe, and it is wonderful to see.
5
The 5 Star -League coalition's victory is based on frustration, bad faith and ignorance.
Frustration for the countries poor economic performance, the high unemployment and a staggering moral crisis.
Bad faith, cowardice and greed of the bourgeoisie and ruling political and executive classes that created this situation.
Ignorance and inability of the "people" to distinguish between those who are destroying the country and those who seek, with little luck and means, to avoid disaster.
4
"Italy.... the bloc’s fourth-largest economy". ?
After Germany and France, which is the third largest economy of European Union?
4
Britain is still in the EU. So by economic output it's Germany, Britain, France, and Italy.
4
Did you forget Brexit? UK is no more in European Union.
1
The biggest disconnect between elites and the rest of the people -- not just Italy but the US, UK and many other countries -- is the vast difference of opinion on illegal immigration.
A government that does not control its borders and take seriously the influx of illegal immigrants will be replaced (Italy, Brexit, Trump, Hungary, etc).
26
Italy has for decades suffered political and economic chaos in one form or another. It's a wonder that this country has the fifth largest economy in Europe. It'll be very interesting to see if two protest parties have any more success.
Can two protest parties transform Italy? Who knows. But it's interesting to note that the recently elected mayor of Rome, a member of the 5 Star Movement, is also having problems carrying out routine work, like patching potholes. It's gotten so bad there that this work is now being paid for and carried out by volunteers.
The democratically elected government of Italy can do whatever it wants. I just hope that they are not expecting to carry out their manifesto with my tax money! Remember Italy, be careful what you wish for because it might come true.
7
Italy is still the 3rd economy by GDP in the EUR zone.
NL and LU are aggressively luring EU corporations into moving their HQ with unfair fiscal advantages. See Fiat Chrysler and other hundreds of them. So who's stealing tax money then?
5
Thanks for your fair post, Keep calm, I have information that someone put in his manifesto a very expensive wall to be built along a border. The funny things is that this guy won the election and his manifesto detailed that the cost of the wall should have been paid by the weaker country for which the wall was thought.
3
I’m grateful that I was able to vacation two weeks in Italy last year, before it’s return to Fascism. It’s ironic that a country with little private industry or entrepreneurship, heavily dependent on tourism, would decide it no longer welcomes people from outside its borders with the desire to work hard for a better life.
It’s more ironic that citizens in a Socialist state, who rely heavily on government support, are threatened by people who they fear will rely on the State for the same support.
1
NYT calls it populism, others call it democracy.
31
Thanks Peter. The NYT has a big problem for some arguments. The NYT should select new correspondents who has the skill and the will to understand the actual situation in countries as Italy.
The NYT deserve much more than the articles published for this kind of matters
9
It should be obvious to anyone that the EU bungled the migrant crisis. No, they were not all refugee families from Syria. Yes, violence did increase in some of the places where they were settled. But that doesn’t explain why all these ostensibly anti-migrant parties are so eager to cozy up to an anti-Western, socially conservative, jingoist, authoritarian country like Russia—a fact the mysterious wave of populism apologists flooding the comments section conveniently ignores or refuses to acknowledge.
7
I don't expect this government to last longer than any of the previous Italian governments.
This will be the 66th government since WW2. A European, if not a world record.
What could possibly go wrong when a far-right party forms a coalition with an anarchistic left leaning political movement?
6
The EU has treated Italy and Greece very, very badly, two of the important countries in controlling the EU's border. This will come back to bite France and Germany.
When the U.S. and Great Britain overthrew Qaddafi in 2011, Libya became a failed state overnight (it's still a failed state), and thousands of migrants have poured into Italy from Libya.
So what has the EU done to help Italy? Almost nothing. Italians are tired of nothing more than a warm vacation place for northern Europeans.
14
"The rapid ascent of populists in Italy — the birthplace of Fascism . . ." Such a thinly veiled implication is unworthy of the Times and reponsible journalism. Let's be clear. Populism is by no means the same as Fascism. While I'm no fan of La liga or Cinque stelle, they are responding to the legitimate concerns of the Italian people. The northern nations of the EU have been content to sit back and wash their hands of the immigration deluge that has inundated Italy, dumping the primary responsibility for immigrants on Italy. While the Times touts Italy's history of liberal values (remember Berlusconi?), it's precisely the institutions representative of those values that have failed Italy miserably. After 70+ years of frustration it's easy to understand anti-establishment sentiment. Nor has its previous embrace of European economic unity delivered for its economy. On the contrary, the attitudes and strictures imposed from the North have held a once productive economy back. Italians can never be Germans nor will they ever act or think (or save) in the same way. I truly hope that this new populism and the parties that represent it can extract from the EU a fair distribution of responsibility for immigrants, and a more flexible European economic and monetary system, plus a more democratic and less corrupt national political system, all without succumbing to the allure of fascism. I am not hopeful. But somehow things have got to change.
19
If the past endless coalition governments hadn't ignored what people were asking for in the first place, this wouldn't have happened. Just as in the US, this is as much a protest vote against the status quo as for this gang of incompetents.
5
Main policies of the new Italian government
1. A new system for calculating the age of retirement
Currently, the retirement age in Italy is 66 set to rise to 67 in January 2019.
The new policy is a point system . A person who has contributed forty-one years can retire at 59. Women who have contributed thirty-five years to retire at age 57.
2. The creation of a "citizenship income"
780 euros per month for nine million Italians with income.
3 . Flat lat tax and lower taxation
With just two tax brackets (at 15% and 20%)
4. Increased funding for police
Increased pay roll and investment in non leathal weapons such as Tasers. Body cameras.
5. Massive referrals of illegal immigrants
"The bankruptcy of the current system of management of migratory flows risks putting the Schengen agreements under discussion". "There are about 500,000 illegal migrants in our territory, says the agreement, an effective policy of referrals is essential and priority."
6. Expulsion of 500,000 migrants in one year.
7. Refugee applications to be formulated in the countries of departure not on Italian soil
8. A list offenses that, if committed by asylum seekers, will justify their immediate expulsion from the country.
9. National register on how mosques are financed
10. Federal permission of mosque construction required - even when approved locally
11. Reducing the 630 deputies and 320 senators to 400 and 200
12. Remaining in the Euro Zone
12
To the "this is what democracy looks like" folks: Well, yes, this is indeed a generous slice of what it looks like. It may not be what The Economist's mandate wants. It may not be what Christine Lagarde wants. But it appears to be what many Italians want.
Why is this so difficult to comprehend? Why is it so awful that Italians decide the fate of Italy? I am a Canadian and I clearly do not want to trade Canada's Constitutional Monarchy for America's Republic form of government. And, yes, by the way, the term North America also includes Mexico.
18
I lived in Italy for nearly 7 years after graduating college and worked in Milan for a Japanese Trading Company in the 90s during Japan's "bubble economy" and Italy's years of "Mani Puliti" and "Tangentopoli", a series of scandals that spawned their own terminology. I love Italy, it's culture and it's people, but let me say that the more things change the more they stay the same. I might be apprehensive reading this news but for the fact that Italy's central government simply HAS NO POWER. A man like Berlusconi might have ruined Italy for a generation had he been able to enact the worst of his poisonous programs. When, erroneously, pundits compared Trump to Berlusconi after the former's election I shrugged because, unfortunately, Trump and the the Office of US President HAS power and is therefore a real threat to the world. I am sorry that Italy seems unable to emerge from what seems like a permanent state of paralysis for there are many things to be done that are not being done in that beloved country. So while the world marches forward (or backward depending on one's viewpoint) Italy remains the same - ungovernable but still the most beautiful country in the world where the espresso is still strong and the pasta always served "al dente".
16
Great post. Agree 100%. Im living in Sicily on a Swedish pension. Coming from a place where everything functions to a place where almost nothing works. Yet, I wouldn’t live anywhere else. Its impossible to live in Sweden on a pension where everything costs 2-3 times as much. And where the government has strict control over people lives. Not to mention the long and dark cold winters. No thanks. Viva Italia!
9
You got the plot. We are unable to the actual way of making business (control, planning, budget, timing, quality, etc..) but we are the best for the most important things of life.
The diversity of Italy is in these terms.
On the other hand, I will not surprise if we will be able to find a new way for not letting us staying in the lower part of the EU ladder.
W L'ITALIA
5
... and the quality of life far surpasses that’s of the USA!
5
How long will it be before we stop calling these xenophobic fear peddlers "populists" and "nationalist," and we start calling them fascists? NYT toys with the thought inside a clause within a parenthetical aside, then moves along. Let's be blunt. Let's call it what it is.
12
It’s call democracy!
6
Round Two. This guys head will soon be skewered on a pike faster than you can say Mussolini.
2
How dare Italians object to hordes of poor migrants showing up by the boatload. Don't they know liberal democracy is doomed without illiterate dependents? Technocrats in Brussels refused to change. Democracy noticed. And made the change for them.
36
You must mean faux populists - like in the U.S.
2
"Populists"?
Dear NY Times and other media:
Please STOP using the term "populist" to apply to any and all anti-government and right-wing group!
True populism is oriented toward the interest of real people, for better or worse, not right-wind extremist, hatred of foreigners, and irresponsible demagoguery. And populism is certainly not the crypto-fascism seen in Italy, other Euro nations and the USA!
9
Why are the fascists now called populists? Will the fascist groups led by Marine Le Pen in France and Geert Wilders in Holland now be called populists? The Trump infection is spreading. Feels like we are running backwards as fast as we can.
11
"Populism" is a pejorative noun for "democracy", which you seem to oppose.
4
Don't think we Americans are in any position to criticize Itlay, we did elected Trump afterall.
9
The problem is neither Trump nor Berlusconi. The critical issue is what happened to let them to become president, the latter for more than 20years.
We have to thnik about that and the NYT shall give a help in understanding the situation, not only blaming the current President
1
Good! Italy is inundated by refugees..
BTW- If Hillary Clinton's hometown of Chappaqua, NY [population 1400] were suddenly overrun by Guatemalan "asylum seekers" .. do you think her city would welcome them with open arms? Ha Ha Ha! They would be marched out of town so fast- your liberal emotional support animal wouldn't have time to offer emotional support!
38
As someone from Westchester County, where the Clintons live, you might be surprised to know that there are plenty of immigrants living and working happily to support the economy. Who do you think works in all the restaurants, does the gardening, minds the children, cleans the houses?
This country would dry up without immigrants to do the work that residents don't want to do themselves. Immigrants have been the backbone of this country (I am third generation Italian-American), and they/we work hard, three jobs sometimes, to raise families, buy houses and send children to college and better their own lives.
4
@Karen S. I do't have a problem with immigrants- I have a problem with illegal immigrants. Big Difference!
They will "muck" it up.
Italy beware!!
Do they teach history in Italy?
4
Yes, in Italy they teach history much better than they do in your country so we don't use the term "fascism" so randomly almost like a synonymous of "stuff I don't like yet I don't fully understand" like many people commenting here are doing.
22
Yes, of course they teach history in Italy and it starts in elementary school and it is taught much better than in the USA. I should know, I grew up in the USA (Bethesda, MD), I have lived in Italy for 40 years and my son, now 28, went through the Italian school system. When I was in elementary school I remember having to memorize all the state capital names...when my son was in elementary school, he was learning about the history of ancient civilizations in the Middle East, Africa and Europe. And don't tell me, that what I had to memorize is old school style, as when I was in USA five years ago, my two nieces were singing a song about the names of state capitals...And yes, the history of Fascism and Mussolini is also taught in Italian schools and not swept under the rug...as is done with the history of Native Americans and African Americans in the USA...I could go on and on about the advantages of the Italian school system compared to the American one, but I will stop here. Tante belle cose...
6
“The European Union and migrants in often vulgar terms”.
What’s vulgar here is that the previous government opened its borders and picked up migrants in numbers that greatly affects local towns. Flooding the country with people with little to do. The politicians are always shielded from the consequences of their decisions and policies, the people they govern are not. If you truly cared about Italy and mass migration you would show it by doing in-depth reporting, this is a kill piece from a faraway nation with a sporadic attention span. Italians see migrants ignoring laws, fighting against police, setting up neighborhoods of drug trafficking in disproportionate numbers and respond with their votes and from the NYT on those issues? The sound of crickets.
34
It is so sad. Any left leaning, pro-European party that rejected illegal immigration would win 60% of the vote in any European country today. Such a party might also scare Juncker, Merkel and Macron, because by definition they would be a party that would be against their vision of a Europe run by big business, but wouldn’t that be a beautiful thing?
24
Is Conte a fascist version of Kerensky? In which case one of the two greatest achievements of the post-Cold War, the democratization of one time fascist nations in great peril.
Clintonistas provided a lesson, ignored by the Brussels bureaucrats, in stiffing populist concerns. Instead of understanding Italians had real concerns about immigration, Brussels fed losing Italian centrists Eurodogmatism about massive immigrant inflows (larger than the imaginary hordes with which Donald Trump scared voters).
Western civilization (the real one, not the lily white Bannon version) is on trial on both sides of the Atlantic.
1
Il Duce's brethren are now running the show.
Expect a lot of heads to be cracked, human rights ignored and essentially the welcome mat pulled out from under any that may knock on the door hoping for sanctuary.
3
Sanctuary has been abused.
Democracy does not mean 'what I want.'
Citizens have human rights too. They are tired of being ignored.
Keep resisting. You have convinced me that the 'resistance' is more dangerous than what it is resisting.
9
Ever heard of a moral hazard ? Italy is testing it.
And ever heard of TARGET2 ? it is like the ECB, but less obvious and unlimited. But while the ECB is in Brussel, the custodian of TARGET2 are the bad austerians again.
Expect drama, enjoy the entertainment, but the crucial deals are made out of sight. It took greece one week to run out of money, and will not take much longer for italy.
3
Many writers and readers still fail to see the issue with uncontrolled, illegal immigration, at their own peril.
Exceptions can be made (eg, DACA), but there must be compromises, many people will have to go back to where they came from, in a legal and humane manner. If this is not accepted by the main parties in Europe (or the Democrats in the US), this is what will happen.
29
It's lose-lose for the common people, win-win for the wealthy elite. Immigration makes capitalists obscenely wealthy by driving down labor costs and enlarging domestic markets. Meanwhile it is destroying democracy. Unfortunately for the common people, the fascist governments they will elect to stem the flow of immigration will also seek to guarantee the preservation of the capitalists' wealth. They will say: "we took care of immigration for you, but in return we will rigidly enforce the inequality that it created."
Makes you wonder if it's all by design.
36
What a strange thing that the common people prefer xenophobic fascism even if it means their economic subjection to the ruling elite.
3
The problem is that they are presented with no viable alternative. What passes for the left today are either liberals, who are ideologically committed to open borders because of their benefits to business, or multiculturalists who put racial and ethnic diversity ahead of concerns over wages and employment. This leaves the working-classes without any champions other than the far-right.
In the long-run, the far-right stands for a rigid class structure, which will harm the working-classes, but in the short-run their positions are more attractive to the workers than the positions of any other movement. The only other group speaking to the same concerns about wages and employment are the communists but they are an insignificant speck at the moment, and their movement's long and sordid history makes it easy for the establishment to discredit them.
Hence the support for the very people who will be the ones who will one make sure that they stay down.
5
The left, in its addiction to immigrants, is ceding power to right-wing populist parties.
This is happening throughout the West and it will continue.
The left refuses to compromise on immigration- and their failure to respond to the reasonable concerns of citizens is leading to their loss of power.
I do not understand the left anymore. I cannot support the Democratic Party. They seem to care nothing about their citizens- preferring to cater to everyone outside of their national borders.
I have supported the Democratic Party my entire life. I agree with almost every one of their policies. I cannot agree with their positions on immigration.
There are tens of millions of voters like me- begging the parties on the left to stop importing millions of people and to start focusing on the people who should matter: citizens.
30
I totally agree, and this lifetime Democrat may not vote for the Democrat in upcoming elections. Why? I am extremely concerned for the environment, the land, housing shortages in CA that they want to solve by adding more housing. And the gridlock on CA freeways. All caused by massive immigration. This continual growth is a step towards disaster. Sustainability anyone? How about protecting our open spaces, our nonhuman species, and the earth itself? The U.S. and Europe cannot be a safety valve for countries with unsustainable birth rates. The open border stance of the Democratic party will be its downfall.
10
It's because the left has been hijacked by bourgeois liberals. They reap the benefits from imported labor just as much as the right does. Immigration pushes down labor costs and expands the market for domestic commerce, this results in higher corporate profits which leads to higher demand for corporate stock (to cash in on those profits) which makes those who already own that stock (in their 401(k)s) wealthier on paper. These 401(k) people include the traditional bastions of the left: civil servants, unionized workers, academics, etc. Coincidentally, they are all protected by licensing and educational barriers to entry in their fields, and so they don't see any harm to themselves from immigration. In addition to that, the civil servants who draw fairly large salaries to run programs meant to address poverty get guaranteed work: the immigrants need assistance, as do the people who are being transformed into lumpen by the depressed wages and rising property prices created by the immigrants.
So who's left to speak to the people that are losing due to immigration? It's the far-right. There ought to be major alarm at the fact that the far-right is going to win over the working-classes, who are still the majority of the population, but as long as the stock market continues to boom no one is actually going to do anything about it.
3
Italy was hit by the sovereign debt speculation triggered by Greece failure to pay back its debts. It was largely unjustified the high price Italy had to start paying to refinance its debt and that happened out of the blue as rating agencies failed miserably before and after with catastrophic consequences. Then the illegal migrants from Africa. An invasion. EU did very little and what was shown to the world is the political weakness of the EU as a whole. EU just asked fod more austerity And that worsened it for the middle and low class because the others are untouchables as anywhere else. And Italy is doomed by its own corruption that made it weaker than other c9yntried5. Somebody CERTAINLY profits from this weakness both financially and politically. Domestically and internationally.
4
* a populous that wants more services and lower taxes.
* a people that think their problems are the fault"the other" people.
* a once great and industrious civilization that was a dominant force in the world.
* a government that doesn't want to pay it's obligations.
* a leader that thinks defaulting on debt is business as usual.
Am I taking Italy or USA?
Either way, it's a recipe for disaster.
5
I have to express my bewilderment at the ability of a political columnist who could write the following:
"Yet in Italy the sudden ascent of the populists to power was all but unforeseen even four years ago, when Europe looked to the country as a bastion of liberal values and center-left politics."
Really? In a country that only a few years ago elected Silvio Berlusconi - the Donald Trump prototype - as its leader through four governments, such a move was unforeseen? Back to Civics 101 Mr. Horowitz,
6
The European Union will need to change in order to survive. If it does not, it will follow in the footsteps of the Soviet Union. People will not stay tethered to union that disadvantages them.
5
Comparing the EU with the Soviet Union is a very bold statement.
1
The postmodern revolution continues!
With the achievement of government, the 5 Star Movement has shown that the 'old modern ways' of exercising and gaining power no longer has a monopoly.
Naturally, the biggest tests are still to come in Italy for these warriors of postmodernism (WPM). Not least of which will be the passing and implementing of their joint manifesto with the League.
But as the government, there is much they can do within government to 'change' the structure of government itself, without having to pass legislation.
I personally look forward to the day when this new government filled with postmodernists announces that the digital platform called Rousseau, which is the foundation of the 5 Star Movements direct democracy, will be integrated into the process of governing.
Such a move will be the first real pragmatic step in replacing modern representational government with one that embraces the idea of a postmodern deliberative democracy.
5
The idea of a modern, efficient digital platform like Rousseau being put at the disposal of The League -- which was earlier known more accurately as the Northern League, a term betraying the League's racist, anti-immigrant, and anti-Semetic roots -- is chilling. The Five Star Movement is naive to believe it's sort of rock-star novelty will be able to deal with proto-fascists and still remain true to its ideals.
2
If you want to blame the results of these open, democratic elections in Italy on anybody, blame NATO and the political leaders in France, Britain, the US, etc. who decided to take out Qaddafi's regime in Libya in 2011 without giving much though to what would take its place.
Do note that the much-ridiculed and maligned Silvio Berlusconi was opposed to the NATO intervention in Libya. Why? Because he appeared to know that an anarchic Libya would be left in the wake of Qaddafi's ouster, and that would effectively allow for the creation of an uninterrupted caravan of desperate migrants from sub-Saharan Africa through Libya and onto Lampedusa Island in the Mediterranean Sea--sovereign Italian territory that's far closer to North Africa than to the Italian mainland.
Libya's descent into anarchy created a truly borderless world, and Italy in this dismal decade has borne the brunt of that world's effects. Seven years ago, did Barack Obama (and also John Boehner and Mitch McConnell, since they were not opposed), Nicolas Sarkozy, and David Cameron ever pause to think about how a chaotic Libya created by the NATO intervention would lead to the unimpeded flow of migrants into Italy and affect the politics there?
Once again, Angela Merkel comes out of this looking better since she did not support the 2011 overthrow of Qaddafi.
17
After all NATO can claim, that they helped the people of Libya in their uprising and made it a success, as Gaddafi was overthrown.
And we absolutely take no blame for what happened afterwards. In fact no one blames us but ourself.
Helping Libya in the civil war gave us some strong narrative in the arab world. We helped an arabic uprising to succeed. We helped without any strings attached, at least nothing that would be a burden on the people of libya, our only motivation was to take out a dictator. Everything that went downhill afterwards is in the liability of the libyan citizen. This time we are not the one who broke it, but the arabs were. This campaign was insofar was a success in having a good argument of putting the blame of failure on the arabs. An argument that helps us staying out of the syrian war.
1
Having been set to simmer for what seems like decades, the heat has been turned up on the Italian social and political frying pan, to the point where, now, jumping into the fire has become the popular course of action. Several parties are joining together to form the Have Your Cake and Eat It Too coalition which promises to "really deliver this time" on the old Free Lunch vision that previous administrations have perpetually failed to manifest. The missing ingredient, it seems, has been an absence of sufficient, nationalistic protectionism. Isolation through the building of walls and strengthening of borders is apparently not a symptom of insecurity but a cure for it. Seems counter intuitive, but there you have it. Good luck Europe, not to mention America the Great.
10
Some time ago, "Europe" had to decide where to move EMA, a billion dollar business from Brexit, London. Milano and Amsterdam went to the last ballot. Amsterdam had no buiding and little science, compared to Milan, that had infrastructure, the building and the science. Germany and France lobbied against Italy, and EMA went to Amsterdam...by a draw after an even vote. Amsterdam has still to build the EMA buiding...Fact is that Northern Europe is as corrupt as Italy, even worse (Volkswagen teaches), but they broom garbage under the carpet and italians have realized it.
35
Well, the whole truth is that 19 EU member states applied for the EMA.
The comments suggest a prelude to one of the most untrue aspects of EuroZone politick, unless you read this. Italy is imperative to the European Union. No matter what is written, there is no EU w/o the I!!! Seriously! Brexit, horrible, but EU will advantage because of GDP leverage. Italy, never sell yourselves’s short, in the EU, I is always a big shoe. If you leave, I = ?. I will type Etaly, because without Italy, there is no EU!
1
Remember, those of you who are old enough to do so, where Italy went with Mussolini. If THAT doesn't curl your pasta, nothing will.
13
I also remember Italians killing Mussolini and handing up up in Lake Como. It's still a nice spot to visit. Well, the road is a bit narrow.
1
Fascism vs communism. Communism lost.
Actually, Mark, Mussolini and his lover Petacci were killed by the Partigiani in Giulino, which is near Como, actually the province of Como, but still not Como città ... and their bodies, along with others were strung up in Piazzale Loreto in Milan...Try to get your facts straight!
Italy is a primo tourist destination. It will be interesting to see if a "populist" government makes traveling there less popular.
7
Again: This is the first government setting up a brand new Ministry of Tourism. But you won't find that mentioned in the article, oh no.
5
are you suggesting tourists will boycott Italy for ideological reasons?
3
Lol! Like the hoards of western tourists in Vietnam, Thailand, Laos and Cambodia?
1
Isn't that what we did in the United States in January 2017? What we have now in this country is pretty threatening.
8
Why is that a threat? , maybe only to globalists who want to flood Europe with cheap labour and make all Europeans happy with less. Maybe the regular citizen has had enough. Globalism does not profit the common man only the very few. It’s the age old story of the rich getting richer. They just try to cloak their intentions with meaningless platitudes of multiculturalism.
50
The Italians have a saying: The devil laughs when the poor give money to the rich.
5
Globalisation has lifted over 300 million Chinese out of poverty, and is doing the same for others living in low income countries.
These new middle class citizens trade with the rest of the world, improving many lives, including our own.
I agree with you, that far too much flows into the pockets of the 1% and too little, into the pockets of the 99%.
This issue could be dealt with, if the political will to do so, was present.
1
When did 'populist' become a synonym for 'right wing'? The terms are not synonymous, and shame on the New York Times for treating them as such.
55
It's interesting that the ruling classes use the word "populist" as a slur. To me it suggests that they don't really respect democracy nearly as much as they claim to.
11
when did “liberals” became synonymous with the ‘left wing’? Many people thought of themselves as liberals until they weren’t.
1
The NYT is correct. In Italy, the terms are all but synonymous. There is no populist left-wing, at least not one that is in power now. The dominant parties are now Lega Nord and the Five Star. Under the guise of being "anti-establishment" and "populist" they are right-wing, anti-immigrant, and racist. I was in Venice during this past election, and my heart sunk when Five Star won the majority of the vote.
1
Angela + EU + waves of immigrants = rise of right-wing extremists.
37
At this point, no matter who is elected to lead Italy, they will have an almost impossible task of reversing the damage the Eatablishment Elites have done to Italy.
The massive immigration of Muslims into Italy have changed the country and its identity forever. Although there are extremist groups on both sides, the small faction that is calling for deportation of migrants will not be successful. And while the majority of Italians may secretly desire a return to an Italy without Muslims, the time to preserve the identity and heritage of Italy has long since passed.
While it may not be called chain migration in Italy, the influx of family members was never anticipated when Italy adopted an Open Border policy.
The United States can take a lesson from Italy and other countries in Europe who thought they were doing the right thing, only to regret the loss of their identity. Because the Democrat party is so desperate for new voters to replace the voters who are leaving the party, they are willing to sacrifice the US Constitution, which will ultimately be replaced by Sharia Law if the Democrats control immigration policy.
I realize a future in which the US Constitution was abandoned might not seem plausible, there are already forces at work which believe it is a living organism which can be changed to reflect the changes in the USA since the words were written, and the men who died for it gave their lives.
16
Your prejudice determines the conclusion. Italy has a declining population that will decline for 30 years. The largest immigrants are Roma, not Muslim,. 96% of Italy's population are native born Italians.
If Italy doesn't allow immigrants to replace the retiring workers, who will pay for the healthcare and pensions of retirees? 5,000,000 Italians live outside the country.
Certainly, the influx of economic immigrants from Africa by sea placed burdens on the country. but most of these immigrants get out of Italy and go north.
2
Exactly. I live in Sicily and one doesn’t see many refugees here. They are sent north as soon as possible.
2
I would think that the neo-leftists in Europe and elsewhere would of come to their senses by now. By that I mean has it not become painfully obvious that doubling down on the "My views are the only valid ones, and anyone who disagrees with me is a racist fascist" mantra is proving disastrous? I would assume even a not so bright elementary school student would of been able to read between the lines by now. If you want to know the biggest ally of these anti-establishments movements then you only have to look in the mirror. Pompous and sanctimonious ideology will continue to be your undoing.
43
...and speaking of pompous and sanctimonious...
1
Europe's leftist/liberal policies-of open *economic* borders, and of redistribution of income, has been successful. The EU is indeed a successful economic and up to now stable politcal entity. The backlash by the right in Europe is of the same vein as that in the USA. Here in the US, Trump analyzed the opposition formed during the Obama years and, as the true con man that he is, realized his target to winning the election-the blond/blue-eyed evangelicals conditioned to submit to pitches and slogans, a proxy of the consumer society that is spread through marketing, and uneducated working class whites who did not want their white privilege erased by the "other", and thus he appealed to those vacancies, regardless that he has absolutely nothing in common with those demos. In Europe, immigrants took advantage of wide open borders. But where is the problem with that? Many from Syria and Iran are hard-working, skilled professionals, and relocating to Europe actually benefits Europe. Sub-Saharan Africans who manage to make it across the sea are natural survivors. Europe again benefits by the talent pool. Right-wingers, by default, tread on populist fears of the dark-skinned, "uneducated" invader. In America, similar situation. But let's not forget, the LEFTIST Obama and Clinton years were...productive, right? Booming economies. So liberals/leftists should come to their senses and, what..declare themselves failures for losing the current propaganda war? Is that what matters here?
1
Neo-liberalism has a some good effects: improving the overall world economy, reducing the chances of another world war, and encouraging freedoms in the West. However, its main purpose was to benefit the rich at the cost of the middle- & working classes, not only of the West but of the rest of the world as well, as we can see from the increasing income gaps worldwide. Right-wing populism/nationalism isn't the answer; it, too, benefits the rich at the cost of the middle- and working classes as well as limiting freedoms and the world economy and raising the spectre of trade wars that can become real wars as we saw in the rise of Fascism and the run-up to WWII. Capitalism controls not only the means of production but also the means of communication & has made the Western middle-classes, working people, and unemployed terrified of the Left, but turning left is the only answer to their troubles.
14
Two words,cheap labor.
7
Great news for Italy and Europe.
27
When i read the NYT articles about the EU, they are mostly negative - I know these headlines are selling more papers and generating more clicks because the EU is an easy target it is big and most people dont have a fundamental understanding of its purpose - I hope a positive story would slip through the cracks from time to time
5
@Simon in Western Europe
"..the EU is an easy target because it is big and
most people don't have a fundamental understanding of its purpose..."
Yes that is very sad, but over here it is worse...the American President does not understand the purpose of the EU, but also doesn't understand how NATO works, doesn't believe in global warming and doesn't understand how congress works because he has never read the American Constitution. He does understand that when you take money from the Russian oligarchs, they own you. We wonder what will happen when his 'base' finds out he sold their birth rite and left them holding the bag.
2
Populists are basically ignorant and dangerous. Nevertheless jeep in mind this turbolence has been much fueled by Europe, and in particular by Germany, and its rigid approach to European Union. Indeed Germany has asked Southern countries to adopt fiscal discipline but Germany itself did not adopt a disciplinated approach with reference to its huge current account surplus. Such an unbalance is one of the main factors fueling the economic crisis in Italy. Germany has tried to conquer Europe in two World Wars, now it risks to lose again because of its blind ego.
5
Lets separate 'populist' from 'racist' or 'nationalistic'. They are not the same. That would be helpful NYT. Bottom line, the 99% have little representation across the world today.
41
Is this an article or an op ed? Because it does not seem to be a balanced report by any means.
32
It was not inevitable that Franco ruled my country for forty years: he was a leader who illegally displaced a democratically elected government with the assistance of a foreign power(s). Today those same reactionary forces operate openly as a minority in Spanish national politics. We never excised them the way they did in Germany.
Now those forces are in the ascendancy in Europe and in America where Trump is their standard bearer. We -- the Europeans, the Americans -- are on the edge of a precipice, and once you jump it's hard to turn back as we found out in Spain.
40
Probably THE smartest/best response I have seen here.
Thank you Vidal.
6
The alternative for Spain back in the 1930's was the communist party supported by Stalin's Kremlin. Pick your poison.
5
We know how Stalin's poison turned out don't we. Franco turns out to have been the better option in the long run. Why pray tell, he failed! In a few more generations and his traces will be but a bitter memory and if the Spaniards are smart, not to be repeated.
I find it interesting that the comments section of the Times is becoming more informative and less biased than the articles themselves.
82
Succinct, true.
6
Especially when it comes to Italia
3
You nailed it! I have come to the point where I just skim the articles and go right to the comment sections, and don't even bother with articles where one cannot comment. The readers are the informed folks!
7
What could ail Italy ?
A number based analysis
Country Perceived Corruption GDP per Capita $
Index (2017)
Northern Europe:
Denmark 88 43 652
Switzerland 85 54 668
Sweden 84 45 537
Netherlands 82 47 743
UK 82 39 199
Germany 81 43 873
Central Europe:
France 70 37 697
Southern Europe:
Spain 57 33 706
Italy 50 34 097
Greece 48 24 189
Data:
https://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?DataSetCode=PDB_LV
https://www.transparency.org/news/feature/corruption_perceptions_index_2017
6
Populist? Anti-establishment? Right wing?
What is happening is no surprise. Socialism will always fail when they run out of OPM. People consistently point out how successful places like Norway, The Netherlands and so on are. What they fail to understand and/or acknowledge is that A) these countries are not spending huge amounts on defense and foreign welfare and B) that they have huge petro based incomes because of the North Sea as well as overseas. Their Sovereign Wealth funds, while nothing like many Middle Eastern countries, are still very impressive and gives them plenty of leeway on spending.
After decades of Socialists making promises they cannot deliver on in many countries, including Italy, the electorate has said enough. Anything but these "let's give everything everyone wants to everyone" politicians. This is why we have President Trump.
I'm sure we'll have many more years of "anything but a seasoned politician".
12
“... if the campaign is protracted, the resources of the State will not be equal to the strain.”
-Sun Tzu on warfare
It is also common, when the major political parties only serve the top and do act as honest representatives of the people, there will be unrest. Playing to nationalistic pride/ fear is an easy card to play in those situations.
WHAT IS REMARKABLE IN HUMAN HISTORY are oil profits going into sovereign 'rainy-day' wealth funds, to benefit an entire country. Many of these funds have even made plans for the obsolescence of the oil revenue someday. As opposed to say... privately-owned oil profits into private funds from which one of the beneficiaries becomes... Secretary of State. That is more typical in the course of human events where elites-rule. Dang those democratic-socialists.
1
You clearly have no idea about socialism nor the fact that The Netherlands is just a more sane, pragmatic and balanced capitalist country. That is what underpins their quality of life. Occasionally taking a wider view of the overall benefit to society as well as the individual just works better in the end than the USA style ideology of getting ahead at the expense of your neighbour at any cost, even if you’re cutting off your nose to spite your face.
3
I don't see how you can say this was unforeseen four years ago. It was four years ago that the populist showing in European Parliament elections was the first wake-up call for the established parties of the EU -- which they slept through, as they have successive calls. Now they are going to have about as much fun as a heart attack, but they could have responded to the grievances of the people sooner.
14
What is not noted in this article is that the 5 star movement did campaign on an economic platform as did the League. The five star movement promised their Southern base that they would supply all with a guaranteed minimum income. The League promised their Northern supporters that they would see a reduction of taxes. Not even shared race hate will cover over these differences. Moreover, Italy depends on tourism to a high degree. I think they may find that far fewer visitors wish to spend their dollars and euros on a place with such toxic politics.
7
"I think they may find that far fewer visitors wish to spend their dollars and euros on a place with such toxic politics."
I doubt that tourists care much about "toxic politics". As long as Italy remains a haven for foreign travellers, people will keep coming for lots of reasons.
19
1) I have no idea what you are referring to when you talk about 'race hate'. None of the two election winner parties is racist in the slightest. "Lega" is pushing for management of the immigration crisis which has left immigrants with no immigration and Italians with no security. No one in their sane mind would call this racism. "M5S" never made of immigration a key subject of their campaign.
2) If you talk about tourism, it's exactly the other way around. You know nothing and you don't even read the news. THIS IS THE FIRST GOVERNMENT THAT JUST CREATED A NEW MINISTRY OF TOURISM, and made of tourism a key element for economic relapse. Tourists love Italian food, and you don't know that the TTIP trade agreement pushed by the EU and the former US administration (a deal opposed by the 5 Stars) was a major threat to the Italian agricultural industry, made of smaller quality companies, not of multinationals GMO market invaders. Tourists also love safety, and security, for example on trains, has become a major problem since the start of the migrant crisis.
Learn and get informed. Spare us your own hate speech.
26
If tourism is down this summer, I would bet it has more to do with high oil prices than anything else. Beyond that, I think most American tourists LIKE Italians and feel at home with them. Consequently, they don't mind streets, restaurants, and parks filled with Italians. However, I'm not sure they would feel the same way about Italian streets and sidewalks full of Somalis, Yemenis, etc instead of Italians.
6
"Populist": derogatory term for "democratic"; used when democratic outcomes do not agree with the user's ideology.
97
It's the term "populist" itself that's getting distorted and defamed, by its application by media outlets to blatantly corrupt, racist, well-funded, well-connected demagogues.
Calling them "populists" libels populists. They are fighting the establishment, if by "establishment" one means "people".
Sanders and Warren are proper populists, as are our Green Party.
These crooks in Italy? The ones in our Oval Office? lolno.
3
At best a definition of a populist is a politician who supports the aspiration of ordinary people against an elite. Nothing to do with democracy. Of course none of those terms is well defined, and so anybody who starts screaming against an elite of sorts or claims some sort of representation for a somehow perceived as vilified majority can wear the mantle. Ironically there are plenty of billionaires like Trumps who do so, or above border line fascists like Ergodan and Orban, or slightly below like Salvini. Or cinque-stelle that somehow snicks in on a wave of irrationality. Directed who knows where but most likely toward a nice landing in the hidden backrooms of power. All, none excluded, do absolutely nothing for the "ordinary people".
3
No!!! Populists are people with simple, seemingly logic sound-bite answers for complex multidimensional problems they use to please their crowd.
They are either dishonest in disregarding said complexities or just plain stupid not to recognize them in the first place. And this is true for populists from both sides of the aisle!
You can do whatever you want (within reason--as a person, as a country) IF you have the money to pay for it. Italy doesn't have the money to do what it wants to do. It wants the EU to pay for its excesses AND to provide a market for its products. My advice to the EU: close the spigot.
21
Italy has the money to do what it wants, and hopefully exit the Eurozone.
7
Let’s see how good a friend Russia’s and the USA’s nationalists will be to their Polish, Hungarian and Italian counterparts once they have succeeded in self-destructing the EU and becoming a bunch of small countries again.
More of them should read history instead of Facebook.
5
If only they were more like the “honest” hard working Germans. (Dieselgate)
4
What is driving the establishment is that capitalism requires growing populations. This despite limited resources. As Europe has a very low birth weight the political establishment opened borders letting in millions of people that had neither the cultural background, skills nor even spoke the language possible to integrate into modern societies. I hope that this new populism forces capitalism to change to something this planet can handle not limitless growth and the search for bigger profits.
43
I will be changing my vacation plans. There is enough chaos in the US due to the Trump fiasco, there will be more in Italy.
5
As if there was no chaos until now. At least this is an attempt to change. A new Ministry of Tourism will be created by this new government for the first time. But I guess you did not know that. Sorry you are not coming.
11
At the behest of unelected power brokers in the E.U., European leaders had embraced trade policies beneficial to the wealthy, and disastrous for workers. At the same time they adopted unsustainable immigration policies and labeled those who disagreed as bigots.
They provided the desperate times, and now they're surprised when people take desperate measures.
England, America, Hungary, Poland and Italy have rejected the overreach and corruption of their leftist leadership. A government can only ignore the will of the working class for so long before they revolt, and the longer it takes, the more likely the alternative will be revolting.
I’m lookin’ at you, Germany.
49
Very well put, Gary Taustine in NYC. This populist turn in Europe has the same "we know better" tone that led to Hillary Clinton's loss in the American election. While the results may not be totally smooth, the people have spoken. Better an awake population than smug elitists.
13
Leftists you say? Must be watching a different set of right-wingers in the US bending over backwards for their corporate donors than the rest of us.
Establishment Democrats certainly aren't perfect, but blaming the economic woes of the middle class on "leftists"?
Incredible delusion.
3
The threat isn't to "Europe" it is to the EU. The EU is a political entity, Europe is a physical place; not all the countries in Europe belong to the EU.
The EU helped sow the seeds of this division first by reneging on its promises to help Italy with the tsunami of migrants arriving from Africa and the Middle East on its southern shores; after myriad promises of help, Brussels has done nothing. Italy is also hardly the only country in the EU's poor Southern Bloc angry at the EU. Second, the euro prevents countries like Italy and Greece from devaluing their currency at need; wealthier countries in the Northern Bloc are beginning to balk at bailing out countries like Italy, and the Visegrad Group (Hungary, Poland, Slovakia, and the Czech Republic) refuse to be muscled into taking migrants they do not want because Brussels told them to. Austria and the Czech Republic now have far right leaders. Macron in France just pushed through draconian deportation-migration laws.
In Sweden, the far right Sweden Democrats have hit their highest poll ratings ever in advance of September elections, due to failure of the liberal left government even to acknowledge let alone deal with immigration linked to crime of the kind the Swedes have never seen.
Calling rising populism the "threat" reveals only editorial bias: it is the outcome of out of touch EU bungling; blaming "populism" is just shooting the messenger.
As Newton said, "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."
146
Bravo, exactly . They don’t want to hear the truth that you have just wrote
18
Please let's stop this stupidity about the Euro "preventing countries like Italy from devaluing their currency". This is like complaining that drug laws prevent junkies from getting a high whenever they want to. Good stewardship of a national economy cannot be achieved by squandering a country's wealth through corruption and incompetence, and then to de-value the currency (making EVERYONE poorer in the process), only to give the superficial appearance of renewed competitiveness!
The EU with its strict Euro rules has forced historically inept administrations like Italy, Spain, Greece to face reality and to initiate serious structural reforms to become more productive and efficient.
That the financial crisis was approached completely the wrong way, by forcing austerity at a time in which structural investments should have been made, was a terrible mistake; but devaluing currencies to cover your problems is not a solution, it's crack cocaine for failing banana republics.
8
Agree. There are multiple ways to show compassion. Close the borders, increase foreign aid. People don't want large numbers of immigrants, the EU leaders need to hear this before the EU is completely paralysed by political discord.
8
People may not always get the government they deserve, but those that support populists deserve their leadership. Nationalism only becomes an intractable plague when leaders shut down democracy, jailing opposition and controlling the press.
I suspect these new leaders will strike out on fulfilling the promises they've made to their supporters- democracy can sort this out over time.
5
A “mixture between ideology and incompetence” would seem to describe a number of governments swept into power by less than resounding majorities.
But why conflate the Populists, who, like 5-Star are popular because they remain vague, and the hard Right Nationalists, from Salvini to Bannon? In the mixture, the first ones are often the incompetents and the second, the ideologues.
1
This concept that a modern, western country of just 60 million people has an endless capacity (and an unlimited obligation) to take on the poorest economic migrants from a continent with over 1.2 billion people is ridiculous. Even more troublesome is the fact that the migrants’ journey is many times facilitated by “activists” and outside financiers who don’t even live in the country. I’m surprised the people of Italy didn’t take a step like this sooner.
100
The EU is reaping what it has sown. If America has immigration issues, then Europe has a full blown immigration crisis, and the policies of the EU are asinine at best. We are witnessing a direct reaction to these policies as well as continued fall out from the decision to implement austerity rather than fiscal stimulus. The world (and the EU) needs to face the fact that the bloc is inherently broken, and it is most likely going to take a complete reform together with the shedding of at least a few member in order to right this ailing ship.
21
This is common when the dominant political parties only represent the 1%. The vast majority around the globe have little to no voice in their own government, it is all pay-to-play with heavy, constant top-down messaging. 'Populist' is a scare term used by the 1%. Dig deeper, NYT. Search for truth, a better answer - not necessarily advertising dollars with tickets to the train wreck.
34
Exactly , the globalists want to use words to try to scare us, none of us are fooled, globalism ,multiculturalism does not profit the common man. Only the very few
10
Apparently, Recent Italian History 101 is no longer required, or recommended, or even of interest in Italian schools.
7
So totally not true....your remark only shows your ignorance of the Italian school system curriculum...I've lived in Italy for 40 years, my son went through all his schooling here...so I know...I have lived it and seen all his history books through 13 years of primary school education (ye, in Italy, primary school is 13 years, not 12.)
2
The good people of Italy have grow tired and weary of unchecked illegal immigration through their country (via EU's regulations) and having no control of their own sovereign borders.
It's little wonder they have resorted to a Populist Democracy.
68
A protest party headed by a 31 year-old with virtually no qualifications or relevant experience has selected for prime minister a man with virtually no relevant experience and a dishonest résumé. That man must now lead a fragile economy which, with only a few missteps, could crash, bringing the rest of the eurozone down with it.
Good luck Europe!
9
A classic example of complete misinformation given to non-Italians.
1) Lega is NOT a hard-right party. but yes, one with a strong push to deal with the immigration crisis - a crisis not mismanaged but simply not managed by previous governments.
2) 5 Star Movement is neither a right-wing or left-wing party. precisely their main character, as the politicians' class was using old left vs right debates as a curtain to their system of privileges and corruption. 5 Stars is the only political force in Italy taking the threat of climate change seriously, and the one proposing state help for low income household.
The most striking element coming out of this article is that you could not care less about Italians. You don't care if this was the only way to reclaim a bit of democracy (and you call it populism), in a radical change that can never be smooth, or perfectly "pro forma" but necessary. You love Italian food, but you don't care if the TTIP was about to destroy Italian agricultural industry. You don't know if Italians, traditionally curious and welcoming to foreigners, were suffering because of lack of management on immigration, with zero integration for immigrants and lack of security for Italians; if Italians had enough of blind adherence to mainstream financial and political powers such as the new EU (which has very little to do with the one we founded and loved for so long) that serving anti.human globalism. We breathe; you serve hate even before the start.
78
This captures the touchy resentment and victim mentality that one heard regarding Mussolini's adventures in Spain and Ethiopia. Arrogance along with the sense of persecution. Everyone gets the government they deserve...you got yours.
2
I fully agree with your analysis.
I am confident this incoming government will bring positive changes and progress to Italy , after so many years of mismanagement and incompetence by several previously elected officials.
Corruption , uncontrolled immigration ( Italy is becoming Europe’s ghetto ...) , bureaucracy , out of control spending for an inept political-magistrate-bureaucratic caste, all have to be swiftly addressed together with innovation in infrastructure ,labor laws and tax cuts to promote growth.
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@Lorenzo
Bravo! Thank-you for your comment.
5
So very glad to see that the Italians have come to their senses! Hopefully, it is not too late.
33
Neither Nigel Farage nor Stephen Banon will help the Italians if they were to leave the EU. As usual these populists antagonists have no skin in the game.
All anti-establishment and anti-elite politicians are nothing but scaremongers and hypocrites for once they are in power on the anti-everything they themselves become the new establishment and political elite. Nothing says more about how corrupt they are than Trump.
Italy, a huge recipient of money from Brussels, would not last a New York minute if they were cut off from EU's coffers and cancelled their debt payments.
In the aftermath of Quitalia (Italian EU exit) sharks like Farage and Banon would swoop in and prey on the weak and poor.
3
Neither Farage nor Bannon are in power in any government and so, of course, they will not help the Italians if they were to leave the EU. Does that mean, ipso facto, that they are precluded from having an opinion on the matter's advisability?
1
No government experience is a real asset. It's what got Donald Trump elected president. Government experience (institutionalized corruption) and elite ruling class have created unspeakable havoc, destruction to the very core of Judeo-Christian Western Civilization. God Speed to progressives and the restoration of a precious land called Europe..
13
I meant to say God Speed to (populists). Radical left progressives are intent on destroying the West.
1
As in Brexit, Poland, Hungary : It's about controlling immigration
"A right-wing coalition shepherded by ex-prime minister Silvio Berlusconi is capitalizing on anti-immigrant feeling in the lead up to Italy's general elections on March 4th."
https://www.thelocal.it/20180223/immigration-in-italy-fact-checking-five...
Note : Capitalizing on anti-immigrant
1
When citizen's concerns over massive illegal immigration cannot even be freely expressed (hate speech laws like in Germany) let alone addressed by the mainstream media and political elites, they will find their expression in voting such parties. Anyone who is surprised by this outcome lives in a bobble.
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If you can't express "concern" without running afoul of hate speech laws, perhaps your "concern" is something else entirely.
3
You might find yourself suprised by what runs afoul of German hate speech laws.
There are an incredible number of ignorant comments in this section. Most claiming to hate the right, and then blame their rise on immigration. If you hate immigrants and wish to blame them for the rise of the far right in Europe, then you are a right winger yourself and you have nothing to worry about. Or is there something else that you fear in these new populists? Their penchant for changing things, or offing the heads of the established leachers? Those are not things that a moral person should fear. To blame the rise of the right on immigrants is to become yourself worse than the right. A person who defends the current power structure for ones own sake.
Another comment claims that left and center left Italian politics has given way to populism, when, indeed, Italian politics has rarely been left leaning. Renzi was right leaning. Relaxing labor regulations and easing taxes. Letta was right leaning. Monti was a "technocrat economist". You'd have to roll back the clocks to 2000, when D'Alema was in office to find a left leaning prime minister.
But who cares about the truth now anyways. Let us speak patronizingly about the problems of Europe and behave as if only they were as rationalist and authoritarian as America they would have no problems at all.
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“First anti-establishment government in Europe,” he said in an interview, saying more would come. “First government built on populism and nationalism as its foundation.”
Yeah I don't know if its the first...
2
"If the Italians can carry that off, they are on their way to financial independence"...when was the last time they were capable of that achievement? Back when Rome waa run by Romans?
2
And as with EVERY Populist movement, the glue that holds it together is Illegal Immigration.
10
Break free from the shackles Italy! Most people in France are wanting the same.
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The headline is ridiculous. Only in the New York Times can citizens of a nation exercising control over their own border be considered “a threat”.
Liberals are as ridiculous on the subject of immigration as conservatives are on taxes. One believes the number MUST increase (as it is a measurement of your tolerance for diversity), and the other believes that the number MUST go down (as it is a measure of how much freedom you enjoy from the grubby hands of government). There may be some value to examining these issues through such ideological lenses, but ultimately such a simplistic spectrum fails to react appropriately to the changing circumstances of reality.
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The EU is in jeopardy. Russia must be very happy. The West moving east.
1
"Populism" is - like many words, but not usually in the news section of the NY Times - whatever you think it is.
Never is the NY Times' basically center-right self more in evidence than when (mostly young) reporters deal with the many places - including the U.S. - where "populism" is said to be on the menu.
That is, what someone from a "Latin" country might do with facial or hand gestures, NY Times staffers (op-ed, too) do with negative words, phrases or "context."
You'd think somebody writing about Europe and politics would not sound like a tenth grader, but Mr. Horowitz must be filling in for somebody - i.e., "learning the ropes."
"Left" and "right" have lost much of their meaning in the Trumpian era ... and they certainly are all but impossible to apply (sensibly) to "Five Star."
Yes, there are things to be feared - but the reporting here makes no mention of the hundred (?) coalition governments Italy has had in the last 55 years. Think about it - while Congressional elections here are every 2 years, maybe 6 or 7 time in the last 55 years did one party in the majority yield to another. And 10 Presidents by my count starting with JFK.
So with Italy, it's "mostly" more of the same. Yes, there is uncertainty with Mr. Conte, but when you think of the many years Berlusconi was top dog, ... "what me worry" seems eminently reasonable!
But for the Times, you say "populism" - they say "SCA-RY!"
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@edtownes
Did you just describe the Times as "center-right"?
Out of curiosity, then, how would you characterize the politics of, say, The Nation? Centrist?
How about the Daily Worker (assuming it was still around)? Slightly left of center?
8
What? You honestly believe that the Times is center-right?
Read the headlines in the politics section, they're always along the lines of "Democrats win big", "Republicans in trouble", "Trump screws up again", "Why we should be letting all the immigrants in", etc.
This paper is definitely liberal and they make no attempt to hide it.
5
He sure did. The Times “center right?” Maybe to a radical leftist; otherwise, to many folks it’s a surprising revelation...
Italy,s hard right turn I suspect, may likely be a precursor to another autocratic fascist dictatorship which was led by megalomaniac Mussolini, and may well be led by another maniacal dictator, or variation of the same.
2
It was bad enough to watch Stephen Bannon wield any influence in the country of my birth, but seeing his filthy fingerprints on the fate of my parent's land is particularly nauseating.
5
My condolences to the sane in Italy.
The rest will get to briefly enjoy the GDPR, then regret the impending Romexit.
Enjoy your rule by Putin.
New government's aim isn't "Romexit". Anti-establishment doesn't mean "leaving the EU".
What is "anti-establishment" about reactionary politics, xenophobia and closed-mindedness? It's rather sickening when corporate media like the NYT cater to the Orwellian use of labels like "populist" and "anti-establishment" to promote stale, tried-and-failed, centuries old ideas. Are these fearful little white men--Bannon, Farge, et al-- also "intellectuals," because of their anti-intellectualism and hostility to truth?
1
RE : Immigration.
The immigrants are most from Sub-Saharan Africa, having arrived by boat from Libya since 2013. More than 690 000 arrived since 2013
As in the Israeli treatment of immigrants from Africa, racism plays a role
Sure, Italians have no right to control their country nor does Israel since there are always those who will scream "racism". Merkel's insane immigration policies have led to this as well as the other populist governments in the EU.
1
This is scary stuff - a rerun of past totalitarianism. How history repeats itself! And here, we Americans suffer an authoritarian bully Trump and suffer too his lies, indecency while our congress stands silent, complicit with dazzling shame. Oh the Humanity!The dead hand of the past weeps for us....
2
To all those who joked about how they were going to escape Trump's fascist America and move to another country.... your options are growing slimmer.
2
Large scale uncontrolled immigration, coupled with denouncing objectors as fascist and racist, leads to a populist wave? I don't see how.
18
Italy, Poland, Hungry will come to rue the day they turned themselves over to facists.
1
Why do fascists these days almost universally display such a fondness for Russia? is it the new pole for a future world fascism including our own?
1
The “First government built on populism and nationalism as its foundation” according to Bannon. Really, he's never heard of Fascism and Nazism? Mussolini or Hitler?
Remind us, now - how'd those regimes work out - for their citizens AND for their leaders?
Incompetence + ideology + hate & fear + corruption: sound familiar, anyone?
And on top of it, going pro-Putin - a truly dumb move, much like selling your soul to the devil. You always get the short end of that deal, because you're dealing with the Prince of Lies and the Destroyer.
Do the Italians really believe that Putin is going to give them anything just out of the goodness of his heart? Can anyone be that naive?
... I mean, other than Trump and millions of his cultists here in the U.S....
Well, buona fortuna with this, Italia - you'll need it. Especially when Putin comes to collect.
4
Fascism is a juggernaut. Decent people are doomed.
A bastion of liberal values and center left policies? Sorry but the recent history of Italy has been a different one, right? Berlusconi has been the towering political figure in Italy in the 21st century and he is neither liberal not center left. Yes there has been a very short center left intermezzo with Renzi, but Italy has been on a populist and nationalist trajectory for quite some time and that is not strange given the economic stagnation, corruption of the political elite and an aging population.
18
This is an experiment in the open. The Italians will illustrate the direction of "anti-establishment government 'Italian -Style'. The first thing they should do is regain control of their currency by leaving the Euro. If the Italians can carry that off, they are on their way to financial independence within the Euro-zone with a chance to bolster their economy by shaking off the shackles of German control over their financial apparatus.
11
Leave the euro! OK, it will result in a 30% devaluation of the restored lira, a surge in interest rates because of the very large national debt, hence a large increase in new debt payments., maybe default'..not a viable option!
3
@driedmann
Devaluation would immediately help Italian manufacturing and tourism. Regaining the use of their own central bank and money supply would give Italy the ability to manage their national debt denominated in lira rather than be at the mercy of the ECB.
Leaving the Euro while remaining in the EU is the most viable option for Italy. Lack of faith in their politicians to take advantage of the change is probably why Italian voters haven't been prepared to make the necessary leap.
It's strange that people can get very upset at their inability to manage their own borders yet don't seem to mind when someone else manages their currency and thereby controls their economy.
1
This is just the beginning. Birth rates and population in North and Sub-Saharan Africa are exploding, and when you couple this demographic fact with the coming impact of climate change on these latitudes (as well as the continent's history of political instability), an unprecedented wave of migration overwhelmingly consisting of uneducated young males hitting Italian (and Greek and Spanish) shores is just around the corner. (On this point, at least, the political right and left actually agree.) What should Italy do? Allow itself to continue to be hogtied by policies and regulations made by northern European leaders and bureaucrats in Brussels, or actually protect the economic interests of its tax-paying citizens by asserting its national sovereignty and seeking to control or limit the inflow? While the answer seems obvious enough to me (and undoubtedly to most Americans), I imagine, depressingly, that most of the readers of this newspaper would choose the more "European" course of action.
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Climate change is the symptom, population growth is the cause. It's population growth in Africa and the middle east that is driving the issues - economic and geographic. Many areas in these two regions are arid/desert/mountainous. They were never meant to sustain large human populations. There is not enough rain or enough rich soil for feeding the people. The forests - Earth's go to for handling CO2 - are being eliminated across the board as the growing population (and wealthy companies seeking nonsense like bottled water or palm oil or almonds to sell) is destroying itself. Call it climate change if you want, but it's over-population of lands never meant to support a doubling of humans every 30 years.
Northern Europe is a lot like suburban American; everyone professes to believe in equality of opportunity but not in their neighborhood; ie, okay if Italy, Greece and/or Spain take in the needy but don't send them north.
7
Since the wildly anti-democratic populist Silvio Burlusconi become Italian prime minister in 1994, I am puzzled at why there should be any surprise about this new Italian populist government. Burlusconi was always a threat to the concept of the European Union and the Euro Area and managed Italy to a position from which recovery from the international recession has been wrenching.
7
Populist can mean many things, from the socialism of Bernie to the right winger Trump. Establishment politicians seek to smear them all with one label, to protect themselves.
The establishment failed. It failed the voters. It failed their nations. It produced an austerity that ruined lives but failed to fix economies; all it did was enrich the wealthy.
Populism did not win. It is not even one thing. The establishment did lose. The collective alternatives are arranging something to replace them.
It is essential to real understanding to dive in and understand the different alternatives, and how they do or do not fit together. Just calling them all by one name only serves the very people who failed and now lost power.
76
Yes. Populism: Support or Concerns for the ordinary people. I am beginning to think - however, that "populism" is now often used interchangeably with "facism" - which is simply not true.
6
The definitive Italian populist become prime minister in 1994 and that was Silvio Berlusconi. Why has the Berlusconi experience seemingly been forgotten?
17
The fact that you compare Berlusconi with what the media calls a 'populist' party (5 Star Movement) shows how little you know about Italian politics. The % Star Movement was born precisely as a reaction against privileges and corruption of Italian politicians, of which Berlusconi was a prime example. For your information, this government is starting precisely because Berlusconi a few weeks ago left the right-wing coalition because being too disgusted with 5 Stars - and 5 Star even more with Berlusconi.
12
When Macron was elected, European leaders saw the waters of populism receding. They didn’t understand that the water flowing out was actually a precursor to an incoming tsunami.
It’s all about illegal immigration. Absent this issue, the other issues are insufficient to generate the populist support seen in Eastern Europe, Austria, and now Italy.
Europe has a choice. Either establish control over the flow of immigrants/asylum seekers or prepare for the tsunami that is rapidly approaching.
150
Spot on. Macron the Savior of the EU just pushed through a host of much harsher laws speeding up deportation of illegal migrants - to the horror of the French left.
23
The only way to stop the flow of immigrants is to improve living conditions in the countries these desperate people are fleeing. You can’t stop a drowning man from seeking the shore.
6
Improve living conditions , EDUCATION and DEMOGRAPHIC CONTROL .
African populations are exploding .
Migrants are fleeing their countries to seek better lives , they are not escaping wars or massacres.
Europe is unable to accommodate an exodus of such proportions. Italy in particular has a double digit unemployment rate , many young Italians are forced to emigrate, particularly the most educated and skilled . This problem has been lingering for a few decades and never addressed.
1
The EU was a great idea on paper, but in practice it has robbed it’s member states of economic sovereignty and the flexibility required to manage national economies. If member nations’ citizens do not feel adequately represented in the EU Parliament there should be no expectation they will continue to go along with it, especially if the ongoing result is economic stagnation elsewhere with the benefits all accruing to France, Germany and Poland. The unity of purpose and vision is just not there!
24
Its more like: The EU was great when it dealt with trade and keeping the European nations talking.
It failed when it became a actual government but with the original governments still existing. The hard core supporters have never really cared what people think, they just push on ahead. People have said that if the French had a true, binding referendum its likely that a Frexit would happen.
7
Can there be any doubt that citizens of any country have their limits when it comes to absorbing "outsiders", especially when the influx brings great challenges? As the planet becomes evermore overpopulated and the pressure builds to allow rebalancing across borders we will see resistance and new governments reflecting nationalistic sentiment. How sad that in our case this shift gave us Trump and all the backsliding policies of the GOP.
58
Japan has a Debt/GDP ratio nearly twice that of Italy, but no one is opening their veins over it. Why? The answer might well be due to Germany's dominance of the Euro, hence, of EU monetary and fiscal polices, therefore of the European economy.
The Euro, originally desired by France to reduce the potential fiscal excesses arising from German unification, has become a straight jacket on economic management in all countries that adopted the Euro rather than keep their national currencies. In effect, the Euro works like the old Gold Standard, in that countries with balance of trade deficits and general economic stagnation cannot reduce the value of their currencies to stimulate their economies. Consequently, they are forced to deflate their already poorly performing economies. This means higher unemployment and reduced safety net spending.
All this to protect Germany's structural trade surpluses and the value of the Euro in terms of the USD and Renminbi. The EU commission, in keeping with the example of the IMF's policies that made economic downturns worse than needed in South East Asia in the late 1990's, has reduced Southern European countries to peonage. The cost of unemployment, especially youth unemployment, cannot be measured just bu lost economic output, but by the sense of despair and hopelessness experienced by the youth in many countries.
The EU better get the message and stop giving the wrong one. Austerity destroys societies and creates populism. Elites beware!
100
San, perfectly stated. The EU is nothing more than a great way for France and Germany to export their inflation to their southern neighbors. Immigration issues are simply more gasoline on the fire, causing a greater spark and flash point. Austria, Hungary and Romania have been pushing back hard. There is no real "union", simply economic exploration by the bigger, stronger economies under a bureaucratic EU flag.
22
@San Ta:
Agreed...to a point. Austerity has been a loser for most EU countries, yes, and the Germans have been the driving force, yes again. But not the German Elites. It is the German Working Class, the "Deplorables," who have been the key constituency. Perhaps the Elites have been encouraging the Workers, but the latter didn't need much of a push.
2
Thanks! A very clear post on the actual situation. The other aspects are just a consequence of what was decided many years ago.
In Europe (a part from Ukraine) we have no wars but there a ecomomic fight based on the Euro currency.
This is the true. we have to ask why these two parties have recevied so many votes and what might be a solution to overcome the problems not to blame them
Populism is the essence of democracy, running a country by the will of the people within it. How, then, has it become a term of approbation and is often used as the opposite of democracy?
The people of Italy have tried the left and center-left policies of the EU and have found them not to their liking. They have voted to change them. That, to me, is a success story for democracy.
120
Hitler was democratically elected as well. It is possible for an illiberal (pro-fascist) politician to get elected democratically, then to govern as un-democratically as he/she can get away with. We have our own version here in Donald Trump (who, arguably, wasn't even democratically elected.)
15
Power to the “demoi”: uneducated, fickle, prejudiced, erratic, shortsighed, religious. November 2016: a victory for democracy?
9
This is the day of citizen power , this is a beatiful day for italy!!!
14
It's telling that Trump booster Steve Bannon is heralding the rise to power of a pro-Russian political movement in Italy. Putin's aggressive anti-Americanism is clearly not a concern of the American alt-right.
26
Um, yeah, that's been painfully clear for a long time now.
The American alt-right is a wholly-owned entity of Russia. The republican party is too. They are ONLY oppositional to the United States of America. Time for folks to wake up.
2
More specifically, though, Putin/Bannon are each basically anti-democracy. Witness the attacks on the free press, independence of the courts and the Justice Department by Donald Trump. I'm sure Putin/Bannon are quite pleased by this behavior.
1
The people who endured and/or fought WWII haven’t even entirely passed on yet, but here we are: stupidly headed down the same path that led us there in the first place.
126
Yep, I feel the same way. The trend continues...
As to this bizarre love affair the alt-right has with Russia, I'm at a complete loss. I remember once upon a time when those who considered themselves on the right side of the political spectrum were trying to out-do each other on how tough they would be on Moscow. Nowadays, to question Russia's intentions is thrown together with other acts and ideas deemed "unpatriotic."
7
Actually, it's a quite different path. Mass Third World immigration was not the issue, German and Japanese imperialism was. Of course, to an extent, German domination of the EU has echoed that, and Merkel's unilateral moral grandstanding in 2015 without a single call to a single leader of any other EU nation (or a single consultation with her own government, for that matter), whose nations would inevitably be affected a decade down the line when all those migrants had EU visas, didn't help matters. Merkel paid a heavy price at the polls last September and got the far right AfD more than 80 seats in the Bundestag.
It is so very clear that the populations of most of these countries do - not - want what the liberal elites and liberal media think they should want, and now they are face palming in horror that there is a backlash.
Perhaps they should have listened more closely to the people whose votes put them in office.
30
WW II was partially the result of Germany trying to regain it's standing after loosing WWI and being pummeled by the allies (post-war) - in terms of loosing land, told where their new borders were, and especially economically ( war reparations come to mind). What we have now is ordinary Europeans being pummeled by the policies of the EU bureaucracy - (especially in terms of border sovereignty and economically). I'm not sure if it is the same path - but to some extent - it does seem like all the same reasons.
3
The whole point of the EU was to prevent this sort of thing from happening again, but it looks like the grandchildren of Mussolini have found a way back, nonetheless.
67