It's amazing to me that people think it's "courageous" and "on the right side of history" to advocate for the removal of the basic rights of Americans.
5
Dear editors, Please consider using the phrase “gun safety” instead of “gun control.” Thank you.
5
Except by either term, you mean a "gun ban," so using any other term is dishonest.
2
As a British citizen, I never cease to be astonished at the gun nonsense in the United States. No one, absolutely no one, other than a member of the military, needs a gun. As for the ignorant children and their parents who promote gun use, there is obviously little one can do except pray for them.
7
I'm afraid that the only way to convince the "arm everyone" camp that their argument is wrong is to let them try it. Unfortunately, the NRA's sponsors will just love that as they can sell many thousands more weapons and will, by extension, win.
I know, and they do too, that arming everyone will just put more bullets in the air. Many of these shooters are suicidal and will just have to shoot faster and better to attain their goals. It's madness to think about it, yes? Trouble is that thought is an underused exercise these days.
3
The really difficult part that the local community is not dealing with is that these kids will graduate from high school and go on to University some where and never come back. The lose of these bright young people is the slow death of these communities. The inability to provide flexibility of thought is what is killing these communities. This is the real separation of red state and blue state.
5
Gun control in Kentucky is just wishful thinking. I won't happen. Ever.
1
Why is it a betrayal to believe differently than someone else? Why is sounding like a democrat make you evil or stupid? And I would say the same to anyone who said the same about a republican. I would ask where can we find common ground? Don't we all want children to be safe at school?
And why is it alright for people to be so mean, telling a student they should have been one of the ones killed because they support gun control is totally unacceptable.
And why do conservatives or gun right supporters say and think that those who differ with them think that anyone who owns a gun is stupid? I support gun control but I accept everyone's right to have a gun. I have relatives that hunt annually. I just think it shouldn't matter to gun owners if its as hard to get a gun license as it is to get a driver's license.
I don't want to ban guns. I just want everyone to stop reaching for a gun as a solution to every problem. The answer to violence is not more violence.
Not to mention that all of this along with other social/cultural issues (like abortion) is a distraction from the serious, common economic issues the vast majority of Americans have to face.
And one last question, Why do so many people believe they have the right to tell other people what to do? The very people who are against gun- control as government interference are usually pro-life. If the government is hands off guns, then it ought to be hands-off my right to make decisions about my body.
6
These kids are right and eventually "the young people will win" as ML of Boston said. I participated in one of the March 24th March for Our Lives rallies and was deeply moved by the wide variety of ages and diversity of those marching. And the students who spoke that day were compelling and articulate in their thoughts. They deserve my support.
1
When reading this article, my thoughts zoomed back to my college days at Atlanta’s Emory University in the mid-1960s. The numerous heated arguments with my white, conservative mother and step-father, though, were mostly about civil rights for Blacks and about Vietnam.
The young activists in this article are much more courageous, forthright, and confident than i was. Maybe they already know these Old Testament verses from Ezekiel that would have helped me boldly stand up to my parents and others: “God said […], ‘Now I will make you as stubborn and as tough as they are. I will make you as firm as a rock, as hard as a diamond; don't be afraid […]’” (Ezekiel 3:1, 8-9 Good News Translation).
Let's pray for these young activists, including that they will be “as firm as a rock” and “as hard as a diamond” in their perseverance and determination and that they will be unafraid of the adverse reactions they encounter as they continue to speak up for what they believe is right and is important.
In terms of “letters and commenters in local news media” suggesting that the teens were “too young to know anything,” let’s focus on what Timothy said in this verse: “Do not let anyone look down on you because you are young, but be an example for the believers in your speech, your conduct, your love, faith, and purity” (1 Timothy 4:12. Good News Translation).
1
The young people will win. Stay strong in yourselves even if you are surrounded by people who believe in redemptive violence and the myth that guns keep us safer over ,the factual reality of their children getting shot. (Case in point: the father who says of his son who was shot, "He's alive because of a gun." Um, no.)
You are on the right side of history. You are daring to stand up for your principles and sanity when the adults around you are defeated and persuaded by a culture of fear. Don't be silenced.
27
I would like these students to know that they are showing great strength and integrity in standing by their views and speaking out respectfully.
How hard it must be, at such a tender time in their lives, to feel alienated from their community and even family members.
As time passes and they move on to college or elsewhere, they will see that they are not at all alone and, I believe that eventually, they will know that they were pioneers in the forefront of a human rights movement, in the company of so many brave folks before them.
1
Notice how the teachers at private schools where the NRA leaders send their kids don't carry firearms.
Notice the NRA bans guns at their conventions when their leaders are speaking.
Notice how many of the mass killing have been done by people triggered by NRA's marketing scheme.
6
This is pure tragedy for those kids! It speaks volume about the state of this country, where murdering kids do not trigger any empathy but disdain and more calls for more weapons!
Pathetic...
1
It looks that in Kentucky some parents will choose their precious guns over the safety of their own kids.
3
My Daddy always said, "Sure it's not perfect, but it's the best one we have. So don't tear it down, fix it using votes and education."
Well, that's what these kids are trying to do. FIX IT.
4
I hope colleges recognize these brave activists with both early admission and financial support.
2
More of this stuff I read the more I realize there’s two Americas. I was born and raised in the liberal, “elite” America where owning loads of guns just looks silly. My parents were media professionals-I’ve been in and around broadcast production and news my whole career. The more of the stuff I read the more I realize I want absolutely nothing to do with the other America. Bravo students for standing up to the monster that’s been created in these people’s minds… They are worried that someone’s going to climb in their window in the middle of the night....
3
And believe me, the "other America," the one that values individual rights, rugged self-reliance, traditional Western culture and morality, and a small, limited government that allows capitalism to flourish doesn't want anything to do with your side either.
1
It is indeed a topsy-turvey world we live in when the kids are more reasonable than their parents! These kids have shown that they have grit and courage...like the Parkland kids with an extra spoonful for speaking out against their own adult family members and peer groups. I hope they can hold strong.
29
I am so proud of the young people willing to speak out against gun violence. Sadly, members of my generation are so backward thinking.
Slowly as more young people get involved in politics, things are beginning to change. I can look forward to a day when people who will be in charge will not bow down to the nra.
Many of us that live in rural areas are in favor of gun control. We realize we are outnumbered, but the youngsters may help change the attitude of the older closed minded people.
21
Is this some sort of a not my child syndrome? That my child won't be killed in a school shooting? Or, worse, my child won't take my guns to do the shooting?
Even after it happened, the perp's father in the latest Santa Fe, Texas, is still in denial by saying his child, the shooter, was a victim. With twisted logic like this, and the failure of taking partial responsibility, perhaps gun violence prevention in America is indeed destined for failure
1
If one believes the fabric of society is tearing apart, and the only thing one can rely on is themselves and their gun, a mass shooting does not dispel that belief. It only reinforces it. Sadly we have a lot of people, especially in rural America, that think the way one might in a war zone. The last thing you want to do when there is a war going on is give up your gun. It’s madness but I think this is the mentality. How else do you rationalize carrying a sidearm while shopping for groceries?
1
Perhaps it is time to step back from the extremist and absolutist positions. Currently there are sufficient firearms in circulation to arm all Americans with a lot left over.
The Second Amendment does demand a "well-regulated militia" which means that armed citizens are to be under the jurisdiction of the civil authorities. We don't have that anywhere. Yet all the state police and militias screen, evaluate, train and qualify people all the time and are quite good at it. Passing that process should be a minimum for being authorized to "keep and bear arms."
Only 2% of Americans are NRA members while 30% of Americans are armed. Most armed Americans fear those who are armed but could never become sworn officers.
We need to get our citizen militia well-regulated and few can argue that what we have today is working.
I think the only way to get through is to give in to this gun belief. Arm the teachers, arm the guards, arm the janitors and arm the students including the bullies, the loners, the jocks, the nerds...give them all guns. Let’s see then if these parents will be ok to send their children off to school every morning.
4
Arming teachers is a stupid idea. Anybody that has carried a weapon professionally will tell you that protection of the weapon is a constant concern and most cops do not train properly, much less educators. You have to learn where to keep your wallet and what pocket your keys go into, as well as a million other things if you plan on keeping the weapon safe in that environment, much less the ability to have a positive result when using the weapon, or fighting to the death to keep a bad guy from taking your weapon and killing the original carrier as well as others. Dumb idea.
5
Social media is as much to blame for this violence as the availability of firearms. The shaming, taunting, and social ostracizing make some, such as these erstwhile dissenters, feel depressed, and defeated. Others feel extreme anger. Who could take comfort in the fact that merely one, or two students lose their lives to knives, rocks, etc? I agree that firearms should be limited, if not banned, but unfortunately, the problem goes much deeper.
2
Generations in many areas have been taught that to be a man you play with a gun. That to be secure, own a gun. To be free, is having a gun. And in those areas everyone owns a gun. Much of our mainstream media, movies, tv and to some extent, music, reinforces those ideals to the point that it becomes absolute, a truth to them. It is inconceivable that one may live without a gun, as most of our country does.
But outside that bubble, your not a man if you have to solve your problems with a gun. Most people take other measures for their security and survive just fine. And how free are you really if you have to carry your gun with you everywhere, like a security blanket?
So it’s no surprise that in rural areas the thought of surviving without a gun is abhorrent, despite that no one has proposed the confiscation of guns, let alone any blanket ban. Pun intended.
3
Sxm, not sure about your "play with guns" idea. However, the same people who have no sense when handling a gun are the same people who try to kill you with their car evey day. Some people with either cars or guns have no business having either but when was the last time a felon was told he could not buy a car? Or what felons are arrested for owning a car? None that I can think of.
The purpose of a car is transportation death by car is an accident the purpose of a gun is to kill something
Play with guns means using them as toys.
Not sure why you're bringing up cars. There were 192 intentional deaths using vehicles in 2016 of which 165 were suicide. There were 37,863 intentional deaths using guns, of which 22,938 were suicides. Or in other words, 27 murders by vehicle, and 14,925 murders using guns.
It would be helpful if I explained to my urban fellow citizens the realities of life with which Americans living in extremely rural areas must contend—and the *cultural mentality* engendered in rural people by those realities. In my area, no, we do not have law enforcement as urbanites define the term. The nearest sheriff's office with full time manning is, literally, ninety miles from my horse farm. The response time to any 9-1-1 call I make could be measured in hours. Predatory animals who want to eat my horses frequent my area. My horse stables were broken into and vandalized by local yahoos. The nearest sheriff on duty came to my horse farm days after I phoned in my complaint, took photos, wrote a report, and then did absolutely nothing. This is the American Wild West and justice here tends to be of the do-it-yourself variety. In the milieu in which I and those like me live, “justice” connotes protecting one’s real estate, the structures on one’s real estate, and one's horses and cows from unwanted intruders. Unwanted intruders do exist as per my personal experience which I just cited. If bad guys are known to have AR-15s, and if law enforcement is only able to arrive on-scene hours after the bad guys have come and gone, then, this situation provides strong motivation for good people to own AR-15s as well. *Self-reliance* in protecting one’s own is the rule. Therefore, rural people regard gun control as an existential threat to their livelihoods and culture.
5
Love Montana!
3
Except licensing, training, registering, safety rules, background checks, waiting periods and insurance requirements won’t interfere with your ability to own a gun, even in Montana. So why fight against every possible safety measure?
Jennifer, because none of those measures are EVER proposed in good faith. First, we already have background checks for all sales at gun dealers. What you want is sales on private checks, which involve going to a dealer and paying money. Make the transfer free and available over the Internet or phone, and many conservatives will be on board. Insurance requirements absolutely will interfere with the ability to own a gun, because absolutely no insurer will underwrite a policy that covers intentional torts. Public policy doctrine demands that. So if you require an insurance policy that no one can get, you are "interfering with the ability to own a gun."
My heart breaks for these young people. I wish there was some way I could let them know that they are amazing, and I believe in them. I am so sorry they feel so alone.
4
I grew up in a town about an hour from Santa Fe, Texas, in Ron Paul’s former district. It is rural and deeply conservative, too. I know things are changing ever so slowly; I know of at least two families in my hometown who have shifted to the left on this and other issues, people I went to high school with and grew up with. It is terribly hard to be open about it if you live and work in the town and count on the goodwill of your neighbors for your livelihood. You do not hear very much stated publicly, but I implore my fellow Americans in New York and elsewhere not to assume there is no hope for change. I can assure you that conversations are happening, arguments at dinner tables and on social media. The seed has been planted. It will not happen quickly but I do believe it will happen. It is only painful to wonder how many lives will be lost until it does.
5
We've already seen in California and Virginia that teachers experienced with guns can accidentally discharge them, one injuring a student. Let's arm all educators Kentucky will do. After all, the governor said students might be molested by sexual predators if the teachers went out on strike. We're not dealing with geniuses here.
5
"Gun rights?" You mean "gun fettish."
3
No one should be against target shooting. Just do it at a licensed shooting facility and leave your assault rifles and handguns locked up there when you leave. When you get home, you can rely on your shotgun or 30.06 to guard against intruders. But we're talking Kentucky, where, apparently, the local judge feels it's perfectly acceptable to walk around with a six-shooter strapped to his waist. Yikes.
1
The father says of his son who was shot "He's alive because of a gun."
Because, his logic goes, his son was familiar with the sound of gunfire and knew to run before he was killed.
He healed fast and is back to shooting.
The double-speak, and double-think, and complete lunacy of our language and our "reasoning" is beyond anything Orwell could have imagined.
7
Left Kentucky in ‘67.. Haven’t been back since ‘85..
Little has changed; the appalling ignorance that permeates those hills is staggering.
By and large, Kentucky is a primitive creature that devours its young.
The last time I had any contact with former classmates, I was amazed to learn the vast cultural differences in those who had “escaped” and those who had remained.
So many ignorant and proud of it.. So sad...
5
‘Almost No One Agrees With Us’, for many students not being a liberal is also a lonely cause.
At least those rural kids are not called by names (fascists, racists, bigots, alt-right, ...) and are not denied their rights to the First amendment, which isn't the case anymore in the so-called free speech movement.
2
Freedom of Speech only applies to government restriction of speech. You rural folk have all the space and freedom in the world out there yet feel entitled to impose your way of life, or “God’s will”, on the rest of us. I can’t really feel bad for you being called racists or bigots as that’s how most of you come off—just sayin’!
3
The United States is founded on what is called a marketplace of ideas. The US Bill of Rights bars the government from preventing you from offering up your own ideas in that marketplace.
But the Bill of Rights doesn't bar anyone from verbally criticizing the goods you have on display in your stall.
1
Erwan, reread the article. They ARE called rude and insulting names and they are shunned.
2
Guess in significant portions of Amerika we want to transform schools from places of learning to armed prison camps.
3
At this point in America, and after having lived in a progressive jewel in the conservative Midwest, if you want meaningful gun laws, separation of church and state, protection of diversity and the environment, and support of programs that enhance the public good, you'll have to do what many of us are doing, moving to a "blue state."
4
Just a couple of question to those who are advocating the arming of teachers:
Other than a school resources officer, the teachers would be the only adults to be armed in the school, correct?
What happens when a teacher starts shooting students? Who protects the students from an armed teacher? Discuss.
2
I used plenty of guns when I was in the armed services. Their only purpose is to kill other people before they can kill you. This is one of the many reasons why the Founders liked their militias well-regulated.
Guns are not toys, and it seems to me that the younger generation sees the Founders’ vision a lot more clearly than the elder. True Americans, and mindful of the need to guide their parents’ generation towards a deeper and more informed patriotism.
10
When I was a teen we moved to a town where we were the only Democrats around. It was awesome. I was very vocal and never backed down from expressing my opinions no matter how anyone else treated me, but I also listened - a lot - and learned to see valid points I hadn't considered. But more, I came to value people apart from their ideologies. My best friend in high school held political views directly opposed to mine on almost everything. She's since passed away and I can't tell you how much I miss her. Decades have passed. The neighborhood has grown by many times and suburbanized, and ours is no longer the only Democratic household on the street, not by a longshot. Regardless, we have so many old friends now who are rock rib Republicans. On the one hand, we could regulate guns the way we regulate cars and responsible owners would be no worse off for wear. On the other hand, folks, a very large percentage of our people own and use guns safely. Since their guns are not the problem, guns are not inherently "the problem." They are unnecessary, yes. But there are lots of unnecessary, dangerous things in society that people want and use safely. Why can't we have a more rational dialogue about this? It starts with speaking your mind to open the discussion regardless of what anyone else thinks, even if the ideas seem extreme to many at first. Speak your mind courageously and with confidence and don't back down, but keep the lines open to your peeps, and give them and yourself time.
5
Given that liberals have no solutions or ideas to keeping guns out of the hands of dangerous people that don't involve keeping guns out of the hands of EVERYONE, "gun control" merely means "gun ban."
4
You got that right. Americans ARE going to take your guns. And it’s about time we did.
4
Unless you have a better solution, that will do.
What is your better solution?
2
No.
2
I don't understand what the problem is with gun control.
No one is advocating the ban of all weapons. No one is saying you can't own a gun.
When a person wants to get a driving license, first they have to get a learners permit. That means s/he can't drive without a licensed individual in the car.
After the initial time, the person has to go to the DMV, take both a written and driving test and pass both before getting the license.
So what's wrong with doing the same with weapons? Before a person can buy a gun they must go through training on how to use the weapon. They must also pass a written and proficiency test before being allowed to buy a weapon.
The only thing I can't agree with is the sale of semi-automatic weapons to anyone, no matter what the age.
Okay, I can see right off people writing about cars killing people. The difference between cars and guns is that cars aren't made specifically to kill people. Guns are.
So let's have some control over those weapons.
13
If people simply started killing anyone they see with a gun because they were reasonably in fear for their lives, which seems to be the standard for these things, then the gun owners would probably fix the problem of sorting out the good gun owners from the bad.
1
Sorry but my brain refuses to connect the words "if people simply started killing anyone" to any actual problem being fixed by anyone.
I once served on the ski patrol with a lot of rural guys who were locals in the Eastern Sierra, who were hunters who talked all winter about deer season, goose season, trout season, what have you. They were sober responsible men in a public safety profession. Those are not the men I would identify as part of the gun "nut" problem.
The people who cycle through excuses for gun violence to the extent that they wind up blaming doors and imagine schools would be safer with only entrance -- and hence only one exit in case of fire -- are the kinds of people serving as obstacles to safe, responsible gun laws. That's what I consider nuts.
9
I appreciate these brave kids. It's hard at any age to go against most of your peers' viewpoint but it may be harder for kids in high school. I also commend parents like Mary Cox's mom and dad who disapprove of their daughter's views on guns but strongly support her right to express her opinion.
11
Tell Trump that having armed guards and teachers in school will not work the solution modify the 2 amendment and do away will all arms. the only guarantied solution
clause: How has that strategy worked so far with heroin?
2
To all survivors of the horrible school murders,
I know how peer pressure can sway your judgement. It was long ago but I remember how peer pressure can be so difficult to ignore.
Please hold your ground and not give in to it. This is much too important to let slide.
I know it's very difficult to ignore but you must.
Do not call for the ban of all guns. Just call for gun control and vote if you can. Vote all of those NRA sycophants that take millions of dollars in "donations" from them.
You are our only hope. You are the future of our country and we must not let be controlled by greedy, dishonest politicians. I include trump in that also.
5
It takes character, bravery and intelligence to separate from the herd.
The thinking in places like Texas where the governor says the shooter didn’t have the “bravery”to kill himself shows the ignorance of current leaders. Guns and suicide do not denote bravery.
The absolutionist thinking on sensible gun control is cowardly with no regard for child or people safety at school or elsewhere. Cars and medicine are regulated but not banned. Why not guns?
4
Isn't Marshall, Texas, one of those places with where Sinclair Media has a monopoly on both Fox and CBS News outlets?
It's no wonder it seems like everyone has the same perspective.
3
This article is about Marshall County, Kentucky, county seat Benton, Kentucky.
What's lonelier than parents burying their slaughtered children ?
Trump and the republicans are so pro-life....
4
Dear Hailey, Jordan, Lily, Cloi, Mary, Korbin, Lela, and other brave students of Benton,
I, too, grew up in a rural town where having a differing opinion on a subject was not just frowned upon but cause for derision and abuse. You are thoughtful and courageous to speak up for what is right. Continue doing so, always in ways that are constructive. And listen, too, so that you may learn from those with whom you disagree. The facts are on your side, dear ones, and I hope someday that your parents, peers and fellow Benton citizens will come to respect your activism. I know I do. I am rooting for you.
13
I am a gun owner in a rural conservative state. I support background checks and elimination of military style firearms in the hands of non military persons. I do not support the NRA. I live close to an interstate highway and my home has been broken into twice, once when we were home and once when we were not. it takes law enforcement 45 minutes to respond. I will not hesitate to use a weapon to protect myself should the situation warrant it. Having said all of that I support all these young people and hope they register to vote.
13
I live twenty minutes away from Marshall County. I would say it is not representative of Kentucky as a whole. In fact, Murray State University is about 30 minutes away and is night and day from Marshall County. Marshall County is a largely rural county that surrounding areas sneer at because they are primarily known for “Tater Day” a holiday where people drive trucks around and hoist Confederate flags. They are also known for maintaining a local KKK group in the areas that do in fact use guns. It is true people hunt but I think that percentage of hunters even Kentucky overblown and not as substantial as people think. People have guns and like shooting guns but the percentage that take the time to get up at the crack of dawn and sit around in a deer stand is likely pretty low. But there is a small group that is obsessed with guns and are generally strange people.
6
Ah, conservatives. When reality rejects their fantasies they resort to name calling, harassment, and whining.
9
This is an ugly, but necessary, initiation into radicalization if these 18th Century towns are ever going to flip their minds; not just their calendars, to the 21st Century. To these students I'd say, "Follow your heart. It knows the truth and the truth has power that will never forsake you."
5
Jack Healy, Please convey my admiration to these students who have gone against the prevailing currents in order to speak up. Change in the American gun culture is necessary and overdue and will require courage and persistence. Young folks like these with their voices are part of that change. Thank you.
5
Send these courageous students to this social media site: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/5/22/1766191/--IfIDieInASchoolShoo...
They will find their community here and can take solace that their protest is valid and meaningful, regardless of the reaction of others.
3
It's the adults here who sound like children, and the children who sound like adults. Speaking out against an issue in a place where everyone disagrees with you is a very brave thing to do. And is it adult-like to condemn those who think differently? These kids are our future, and it's comforting to know that a new generation may finally have some common sense about guns. But, no, you will never convince gun lovers that their weapons are the problem, not too many doors, baggy clothing, not enough religion in schools, etc., ideas that are truly laughable.
12
The truly sad thing here is that people assume the "worst" about each other, no longer listening to what the other has to say. Once again, instead of a dialogue, we have echo chamber monologues. If you genuinely value learning, remember that you learn from people who think differently, not those who think as you do.
The move toward dangerous polarization has been hugely exacerbated by our national leaders, talk radio, cable TV, and the internet which, 24/7, provide reassurance that whatever you think is true, if not God-given certainty.
It is necessary to develop a real program, maybe different ones for different places, and then form a coalition to advocate for appropriate legislation among those whose attitudes toward guns vary.
I expect most hunters -- certainly the ones I know -- are more responsible in the safety and use of their guns than the average driver is with his or her car. You can't simply put all gun owners in one box. Rural hunters, fearful urbanites, Rambo wannabees, and others are really in separate categories. The same can be said for AK-47s, shotguns, rifles, and handguns.
The first thing that needs to be done is to specify what one means by "gun control." A slogan without content will not create the political alliances needed. There are many, if not most, gun owners who would support all sorts of measures, if they were reassured that registering felons, psychotics, and abusers wasn't the first step on a slippery slope toward confiscation.
4
I'm writing from far upstate NY. I don't own a gun, but most of my neighbors do, and they use them ---- to HUNT, not to kill other people. And they don't use military weapons to hunt, they use rifles or shotguns. Most Americans don't have a problem with hunting for food. They sure as heck have a problem with hunting other people.
Our president lied to the students in Florida when he said he understood what they were feeling and he would do something to stop this madness, but, once again, he did nothing. He didn't tell them that he has received millions of dollars from the NRA because he supports the NRA, not the children who are killed by the kinds of weapons of mass destruction - I'm not talking about rifles or shotguns - which have somehow been deemed to be OK by the gods of the NRA. And Donald supports them because they give him MONEY.
The money he takes from the NRA is more important to him than the lives of other people's children. He was a coward when he lied his way out of military service in Vietnam because he didn't want to get shot. But now he's letting other people's children get shot and die because he wants the NRA's money and support. He's still a coward who doesn't give a hoot about us or our kids.
Wake up, America.
10
As a native of that part of Kentucky, I empathize with these teenagers who are being beaten down by their own townspeople. I am familiar with this culture. It is almost like living in a medieval town, when those with unpopular opinions could find themselves in the stocks. I'm not surprised that one of these young people was rebuked by a church deacon for "sounding like a Democrat." What does the church have to do with political parties? The message is that it is morally unacceptable to disagree. Benton wants all its people to be sheep. They also believe that any restriction on gun purchases, no matter how reasonable, is an infringement of their God-given right to own any kind of arms one could imagine.
Stick with it, Ladies. I applaud you. We all have to believe in progress to survive. You don't necessarily have to be vocal in a hostile environment, but you can remain aware and develop your arguments and opinions for a time that is right. And please don't pay any attention to the judge, who is obviously just trying to beat you down and diminish you. Always remember that there are plenty of people out here who know that you are right, so don't give up. You have a lot more sense than most of your elders there in Benton, Kentucky. Don't let them brainwash you.
23
I suggest that many American adults are Mostly tired of whinny children demanding change without having any idea as to how to effect it.
Grow up, learn, read, vote....in that order.
4
I think if you watch your classmates get murdered for no reason you've probably done some growing up that we adults can't really fathom. While I agree that kids have a tendency to be very heated without a strong understanding of how to fix things, they are the ones being affected by this, and they are the ones we should be trying to protect. It's sad to me that the kids are having to protest being murdered while adults tell them to grow up for wanting to feel safe in their school. Sure, there are tons of kids who simply don't understand how complicated all this is, but I think we should definitely listen to the kids who lived through the experience over the adults who aren't worried about getting shot in their office every day. If you know a teenager, ask them if they have a plan if an active shooter comes into their building other than the drills the school does. I'm sure they do. Do you know we drill them at random, sometimes not even the teachers know whether it's a real lockdown or not? Staring mortality in the face in the middle of your English class every once in a while changes your perspective a little bit.
9
The solution is easy here. Move out of Kentucky. Canada is a good home for people with the ability to reason.
Sometimes it is more efficient to just get out of an absurd situation than it is to try to change it.
8
So much for the right wing trope that conservatives are excluded at universities and colleges not because they cannot defend their views but purely because they self-identify as conservative.
7
Good people with inaccurate information make poor choices.
The NRA, acting much like the tobacco lobbyists, has worked hard to limit information about the danger of their product.
I am advocating for a national campaign to educate people about the dangers of gun ownership. In the 1990s the majority of US citizens believed that owning a gun made you less safe. That percentage is now reversed. People are more afraid so they buy a gun. That puts more guns in circulation, which leads to more gun violence, which makes people more afraid, which promotes more gun sales. The gun manufacturers and NRA win. Citizens die.
I see this pattern in my own family. For many years my family owned guns for hunting. In the last 10 y started buying guns for self-defense. My father has several scattered through the house. He’s never been burglarized, but now he feels the need to have lethal weapons to protect himself and his family from that very unlikely scenario. What’s much more likely in my family – and in most families—is one of the members, who abuses drugs or alcohol or suffers from depression, may get ahold of one of those weapons. That person will turn it on him/herself or someone else in the family or sell it or...
Gun ownership for the purpose of self-defense has so many unintended consequences. Unfortunately, those consequences are minimized or discounted by those who have a financial interest in selling guns and keeping us afraid of each other. It’s criminal.
4
"From left, Hailey Case, [Tom Hiddleston pillow], Jordan Harrell and Lily Dunn..." Solid choice.
On a more serious note, these students are truly inspiring.
1
It is not possible to carry on a rational discussion with people who do not deal in facts.
Americans need to realize the horrible facts about the relative murder and suicide rates in comparison to other OECD countries, and how gun availability impacts these statistics.
Violence and gun deaths are worsened by both the availability of guns, but also the level of misery created by America's winner-take-all society. This shows itself in the form of poverty, poor health, shortened life spans, overdoses, crime and mass incarceration.
Political polarization and tribalism seems to have precluded the possibility of rational debate. The future is truly bleak for the USA if Americans will not engage with each other on the basis of factual discussions.
2
Having friends that are raised in rural parts I find that as a whole they tend to be very kind, fair and good people. Yet there is such a deep seated, knee jerk reaction to certain topics, that it is very hard to imagine change when it comes to "others" (blacks, immigrants, etc) and guns.
Yet some positive change has occurred over time. We need to focus on what we agree on- the majority of Americans want the rate of mass shootings to go down - and we need to bully the bullies. The NRA is the bully in this case. They use pressure politics to force politicians to bend to their will, and to create the false narrative most right wing supporters repeat (gun control won't work anyway because knife violence increases when there are no guns or that it's a constitutional right- no it's up for interpretation, second amendment literally says well regulated, so let's regulate well our guns).
Our only hope to pass sensible gun laws in our lifetime is to remain vigilant and to vote out the politicians which the NRA give high marks to on their annual report cards for many election cycles. If enough politicians lose their jobs because the NRA supports them, eventually the NRA will lose their power in these rural areas, and more importantly, in Washington.
The people against gun control seem to be - I am unable to say it any other way - gun nuts. It is beyond me, and probably anyone else who looks at the gun problem logically, to educate or even argue with these people. Perhaps the best thing to do is let every state interpret the second amendment in its own way. So people who don't wish to have anything to do with guns can stay in a state like California, and the second amendment enthusiasts can move to one of the red states like Kentucky and shoot away. It does sadden me that even with this separation, there will be many helpless young ones caught in the crossfire of adult stupidity...
13
In the '60's in a small town in southeastern MO, misery, I was the only student against the war in Vietnam and pro civil rights. Completely ostracized by the big men on campus, by all factions of the student body. Arguing with teachers and administrators is not the way to bolster one's GPA or college recommendations.
And yet, I got into a highly competitive, top 20 liberal arts college; not only survived but thrived in my new environment where I was not alone; not the outlier. Fortunately, my family was supportive.
Vindication came a couple of years later when, during one of my rare visits 'home', I was at the local city park - the only place for teenagers to hang out. When I was approached by the captain of the football team during my time in high school, I recoiled.
The words that came out of his mouth were simply astounding and served as an incredible lesson for my two younger sister about the courage of one's convictions. Former captain of the football team said, "You were right. How did you know? I had to go to 'Nam to find out.
But what I really want to know is what you're thinking now" - essentially my world view. So we talked. I was able to forgive him for the high school slights and empathize with the emotional and physical damage he had sustained in Vietnam.
I so hope these courageous kids, too, find vindication in the not so distant future. Hang in there. History and your so-called 'friends' will absolve you.
15
It is of course, a tragedy that this keeps happening - kids killing other kids at school. It is a tendentious argument and canard to believe that this violence is related to gun control. In England where guns are banned, instead of shooting sprees, they have knife stabbing sprees that result in mass casualties. There is also a violent trend in using cars to run down groups of people on sidewalks and fairs. Believing that gun control is the solution to this problem is as simplistic and blind as christians who blindly believe the bible is the solution to their problems. Take guns out of the equation (and btw, i am for stricter control) and the problem doesn't stop -- these sick individuals will start running down kids with their cars, stabbing, making pipe bombs, setting schools on fire, or some other heinous act we can't even conceive of yet. SO... when people mock those who use these tragedies to promote their political agenda or simplistic belief that the solution is simply (gun control), it's not far-fetched or unreasonable. Of course, NY Times is making this a story, they want readers and subscribers to keep them in business. Again, gun control, ain't the solution folks. Maybe if the media stopped giving these nutcases so much attention, other sociopaths wouldn't be so eager to get their 10 mins of infamy.
3
Scott, the statistics certainly do not support your position at all. Odd you should express such a tendentious argument as a critique of one that is neither tendentious or a canard. Guns are the principle problem in the US and the quasi religious devotion of so many Americans to a weapon whose only meaningful purpose is to kill is perplexing to much of the world. Knives and automobiles are tools whose principle purpose is not to kill. So is rope, wire, fertilizer and diesel, and the host of other legitimate tools human beings have perverted to wreak pain and gain notoriety. The gun stands alone as a devise put freely into the hands of the multitudes with the sole purpose of inflicting death. The gun underlies an American ethos, a penchant for glorifying the strongman, the pistol packing Clint Eastwood who cleans up town with his gun. Always the gun, never intellect or wit. Witness the vapid stupidity of Trump the hard liner, tough guy who sought, what was it, 5 deferments. America is the most powerful nation in the world and we would all be a lot safer if she were a tad more humble; a quality directly at odds with a gun society. Imagine the hypocrisy of a Christian admonishing a student for opposing gun culture. It is just too tragically funny.
6
"Mr. Thomason said that Case survived that day because he is a competitive pistol and rifle shooter who recognized the sound of gunshots in the student commons and instantly knew to run. Case was struck in the hip, but recovered quickly and is shooting again"
“The reason he’s alive is because of a gun,”
Can people who draw this conclusion really be reasoned with? I'm sorry, but i am from Kentucky, these rural folks will never part ways with their ideology, no matter how flawed it is.
18
Poor kids. At least in a couple of years they won't have to stay in that town if they don't want to.
"No one wants your hunting weapons or air guns, and you can keep handguns if all guns are registered". What is wrong with these people that this message drives them completely insane? You want to take semi-automatics away but leave them the rest and you're 'the enemy'. Oh-- and I love the delusional 'outside agitators' paranoia. Do they really think liberals in California and New York care about their little town that they have launched a plot to change your kids' thinking? Give me a break.
9
I wonder why the NYT and the liberal media in general seems to be avoiding mention that the Parkland shooting and the Santa Fe, TX shooting were the results of school bullying. It's briefly mentioned and then forgotten while the gun control agenda is pushed even harder.
If you want to stop school shootings address, effectively, school bullying. It's worse that it used to be.
Well you can bully with a military weapon or you can bully back with your fists or a knife. Big difference.
Being simplistic and once again dividing things up into "liberal" and "whatever" is childish. The facts are that most of us who are older did not grow up with this problem. The younger folks have every right to address it.
7
Bullying is no worse than it was when we were in school. You either took it or fought back with your wit or fists. Today the ability to obtain a gun easily has changed everything. The so called Liberal Media has talked about the bullying issue since it happened. Stop watching Faux News and think for your self.
6
I don't watch faux news. Why do you assume I do? I say liberal media because that is what it is, a specific, identifiable entity and they push the gun control agenda. They don't talk about bullying to the extent that they publish propaganda (that's what it is) about gun control. How many news organizations have run one article exploring the scope and extent of bullying the two recent shooters were subjected to prior to these two incidents? It just gets one or two sentences of mention, presented as an unproven allegation.
I read at least one report that said students would throw food at Nikolas Cruz as soon as he walked into the cafeteria. I've seen more than one report saying that faculty coaches bullied the Santa Fe shooter. If faculty join in it's even worse and much more demoralizing.
People like to assume that school bullying is
a mostly harmless rite of passage kids have to learn to deal with but sometimes it can progress to deadly intent. There have been several public incidents of children ganging up on another and killing them. It's one thing to encounter an occasional bully but it's another to be bullied by a crowd of people who all have a common attitude that one individual "deserves it". It's an insidious, contagious mischief that infects even adults who should know better.
1
Let's explore the idea of arming teachers a bit more.
1) What percentage of teachers at a given site need to be armed to achieve a "safe" campus?
2) Will these teachers be required to carry their guns on their person at all times, as one can never predict when a shooter arrives?
3) What type of gun will they be required to carry? How many rounds?
4) Who will purchase the gun, the ammo, pay for maintenance, supply the training for qualification to carry, and keep their training current?
5) Will there be a mandated minimum of qualifications created to set standards for teachers to carry? Who will set it? Will there be on-going re-evaluations/testing re: those qualifications?
6) Will teachers be given paid time off to go to the gun range, attend training sessions, maintain their weapons, etc...?
7) Say an active shooter comes on campus, what obligations do these teachers have to engage the shooter? What if they do not engage the shooter? What if, say, a Kinder teacher who has a gun chooses to stay with his/her class because her 5 and 6 year old students are terrified at the sound of gunfire, the screaming of those shot, and the panic all around them? Should that teacher suffer any consequences? What if the teacher is just plain scared and huddles in a corner? What consequences do these teachers face?
8) Say an active shooter comes on campus, and the teacher does engage with the shooter, but shoots a student(s) by mistake...
Bumper sticker solutions are never thought out...
112
Amen, E Zarate !
The sad thing here is that people assume the "worst" about each other, no longer listening to what the other has to say. Once again, instead of a dialogue, we have echo chamber monologues. If you genuinely value learning, remember that you learn from people who think differently, not those who think as you do.
The move toward dangerous polarization has been hugely exacerbated by our national leaders, talk radio, cable TV, and the internet which, 24/7, provide reassurance that whatever you think is true, if not God-given certainty.
It is necessary to develop a real program, maybe different ones for different places, and then form a coalition to advocate for appropriate legislation among those whose attitudes toward guns vary.
I expect most hunters -- certainly the ones I know -- are more responsible in the safety and use of their guns than the average driver is with his or her car. You can't simply put all gun owners in one box. Rural hunters, fearful urbanites, Rambo wannabees, and others are really in separate categories. The same can be said for AK-47s, shotguns, rifles, and handguns.
The first thing that needs to be done is to specify what one means by "gun control." A slogan without content will not create the political alliances needed. There are many, if not most, gun owners who would support all sorts of measures, if they were reassured that registering felons, psychotics, and abusers wasn't the first step on a slippery slope toward confiscation.
7
I see that you do not approve of this potential solution and agree with your conclusion that "Bumper stikcer solutions are never thought out...." But then what ? You actually provide a framework for teacher carried guns in that you ask all the correct questions that require answers that can indeed be answered. However your excellent point remains, which is instead of catch phrases like "gun control" being somehow the answer, or even less: "they" should do something, honest, centrist, reasonable intelligent people should consider actual real life solutions and begin grassroots efforts on specific acheivable points - eg background checks for every gun, close private sale and gun show loopholes, pass laws that if there is a child in the home there must be some positive security against access. Take the politics out and put some positive reasonable energy in, pointing fingers, hyperbole and partisan politcs will never, ever save lives.
5
There are approximately 3.8 million teachers in this country, a new low cost handgun comes to around $300, let's say we get a 25% discount for bulk purchases and only 1/4 of teachers actually get a firearm. That comes to almost $214 million. That doesn't cover the cost of training, ammunition or the increased insurance cost due to the possibility of accidental discharge either.
Wouldn't the money that would hypothetically be spent on firearms and training be better spent on crumbling schools and replacing 40 year old textbooks.
Shouldn't teachers use that time to improve their teaching skills, or, considering the country we live in, work at their 2nd or third job?
27
These kids are the future. I wish the old would get out of the way and let the kids decide what kind of future they want to see. It's time.
7
To the teenagers in rural Kentucky who decided to take a stand against gun control - a deep and sincere thank you.
I know first hand how painful, lonely, difficult and conflicting this struggle is for you - standing up to a principle and belief you feel is right and necessary while your decision is costing you hardship with your family, your friends, your classmates and your neighbors.
I applaud, I respect, and I admire your strength, conviction and dedication in following your heart, your head, and your common sense. Please remember that you are not alone in your actions or beliefs and there are thousands of others in this country who feel, believe and hold similar values as you. I realize that sentiment may not bring much comfort at this point in your life, but hopefully one day, your family and friends will understand and appreciate what you were and are willing to sacrifice in order for others to be safe from the harm gun violence can bring.
I love you guys. Please stay strong and positive.
17
My 10 year old daughter organized the Local West Texas chapter of March For Our Lives event in remote Marfa participating in the national events. My family and many of our community members are very proud and supportive of her efforts and beliefs.
I own a business in this rural community, remaining "publicly unaffiliated politically" is part of our business plan in an effort not to alienate our client base. There is little anonymity in a small town, life can and does often resemble a country western song
This is a ranching community and virtually everyone who works on the land is armed, fire arms are tools. Hunting is a major part of the ranching community and fuels our economy. Guns are quite matter of fact, there is nothing to be defensive about regarding use of guns and gun rights. That said Marfa has a unique collision of values and demographics. While few in our area advocate for gun control there is a collective desire to be safe in our community, especially at the towns school. To be honest, we all look around us with horror at school mass shootings, but until it happens to you, and hopefully that never happens, gun violence does not seem that real or urgent.
Our local March For Our Lives event was symbolic, it did offer a sense of hope and a chance to air our concern about gun violence. In this rural community whether people carry, or are opposed to guns, fire arms and their use is not a polarizing issue.
5
I sincerely feel for these students. On both sides. They are just kids being indoctrinated into the hyper-polarization of thier parents. In rural settings the liberal point of view is likely to be 'under-represented' and equally in urban settings the conservative point of view is anathema. Assertive and informed debate is the ideal outcome, bullying and personal attack are the far more likely result. The side that proves willing to listen, try the hardest to understand and contemplate reasonable solutions and become the champion of the CENTER where most people actually are, will be the 'winner', but so far whichever 'side' of the controvesy (wish I coud say debate) someone is on, the 'XXX deplorables' or the 'XXX libs', we have only finger pointing self righteous losers. I dont think that either political party has the courage to run candidates that are centrist in this or any other needful issue and in not doing so, represent such fringe as to completely alienate so much of the country as to make governace next to impossible.
1
A lot of people are suggesting that these students just get out of Kentucky and find someplace better to live, where people share their ideals. As a Liberal in Kentucky, I disagree. Get out, travel, and find strength in like-minded folks, but them come back and make change IN Kentucky. You're the people we need here to make the Commonwealth a better place. There are oases here -- Paducah, Lexington, Louisville, Murray -- where we are a bit more open minded. We need your help!
153
As another liberal in Kentucky, I totally agree. Democrats have brought our city numerous beautiful parks, a lovely greenway and a water park. Kentucky also had (Democrat) Steve Beshear as governor for two terms.
We are not totally hopeless in this state......
10
As a like-minded liberal (okay, former New Left activist, to be more honest) who was raised and taught in public schools in Oklahoma, I totally agree. That being said, however, I did leave after retiring seven years ago -- as you can see by my current location. After almost sixty years swimming upstream, I got tired and moved to calmer waters.
3
I am a small blue dot living in a deep red state. I have lived and traveled abroad, but I returned to my hometown. It isn't always easy being liberal in a town where nearly every tv is tuned to Fox News - my pharmacy, restaurants, my nail salon. But this is where the rubber meets the road, folks. Real conversations. There is no liberal echo chamber here. Gun owners are my colleagues, and I like them. They're good people. I do my best to point out the inconsistencies in their arguments (as kindly as possible), and I am respectful. This is where change is going to happen. I'm going to convince my co-workers that AR-15s and other assault-like weapons should be banned. One person at a time. And I will be "armed" with facts, my ability to listen, and all the patience I can muster. I live 45 mins from Marshall County (and 1 hour from Heath HS 1997 shooting site), and I want those kids to know there ARE people in western Ky who support them.
9
I would be interested in seeing how many of the high schoolers end up leaving the community after school. With people deciding to love among like minded people, that may be the outcome.
2
The portesting kids are going to leave that town for college and never return, just like all the smart kids from all the small close-minded towns do. That's why those towns are dying. They'd rather spend education funds on armed guards than teacher salaries. The smart kids know they aren't valued by their neighbors, and they will go to Nashville or Chicago where their brains and talents will be appreciated and rewarded.
In 10 years their parents and their neighbors will have no idea of what their kids are doing for a living that pays them so well.
11
Wow, this really is an illuminating look at a culture that is completely embedded with a deep seated hatred and disdain. Those kids and adults are just plain cruel. Is this how they treat people who have a different point of view and don’t agree with them? Most appalling was
the minister who accused the teenager of being a “ Democrat “.
No wonder Trump won with these voters. Ridicule, humiliation and shunning others are perfectly acceptable behavior, just like Trump.
15
I live in the same rural Iowa town as the recently-resigned president of the NRA, Pete Brownell. For months, our town engaged in peaceful, persistent pressure to ask Mr. Brownell to change the direction of the organization or quit his position. We had a stunning success when he announced earlier this month he would not be seeking reelection as president. Among the bravest people involved in our efforts were the local high schoolers who knew Mr. Brownell as a father, benefactor, and prominent businessman, but who nonetheless spoke out at vigils, held prayer meetings, and staged die-ins at his massive gun-parts store in order to publicly hold the NRA accountable. It is our hope that our actions can be a model for other communities on how to stand up to the leaders of the NRA in the heartland of America.
27
Get out kids, and never look back. You really can't fix willful ignorance, but you can fix your location. Especially when you're young. Go to College, OR join the Military. That's what my Husband and I both did, before we even met. We married, and when our Enlistments were finished, we both attended College. We're now firmly upper middle class, especially in Kansas. Within 5 to 7 years, we WILL retire to Seattle, my happy place.
Leave before you get tired and worn down, and especially before you have any Children. Seriously.
26
'Guns don't kill people, people do'.
Then, let me just ask a stupid question:
Can a mass school shooting take place without a GUN ?
20
What don't trump supporters understand about their failing towns? They are garbage dumps because that is where the garbage is.
#calexit - we have nothing in common with them.
7
Guns > Children; time to change the equation.
8
Can we not walk and chew gum at the same time?
I am perpetually mystified by the position that "gun control" must mean—by default—the confiscation of guns and the denial of 2nd Amendment rights. While I don't own a gun and don't foresee doing so (and interpret the 2nd differently than do many others), I would never deny this Constitutional right to any of my fellow citizens.
That said, adherents to the 2nd MUST concede that gun ownership entails some hefty responsibility: guns are weapons and, as such, warrant some regulation at a minimum. To drive a car (not a Constitutional right) one must produce (in NY State) 6 forms of identification, undergo mandatory training and examination, and pass a driver's test. Why? Because cars are potentially dangerous. One might logically conclude that owning a gun—which is even more highly fraught with the potential for abuse, whatever the reason—should similarly require some demonstration of fitness on the part of the owner. WHY that idea should even come close to meaning a denial of rights is highly perplexing.
If you want to own guns, lovely. Accept your civic responsibility and be trained, educated, vetted, and licensed for the privilege: just as you would for any other activity that could potentially endanger others. Being "well regulated" (as the Constitution ALSO mandates) does not mean denying the right you are guaranteed.
23
When was the last time Liberals passed a gun law and didn't want more?
That is a cynical comment considering that the article was about kids trying to get something done to make their lives and our lives safer.
14
Analysis by the Washington Post found the number of children killed in school shootings in 2018 is "nearly double" the number of casualties of our service members.
The absurdity of sending your kids to the military to serve in live fire combat zones to be safer is too insane for words.
9
This is how difficult change is . . . but it has been done before and will be again. I think of desegregation. The loneliest places for change are small, rural communities with insular ideas . . . and that was especially true in Kentucky, Oklahoma, Mississippi. But, change can and will come.
Stay true to your convictions. Know that not everyone agrees with your community. Know that you are BRAVE!
Thinking for yourself and not simply following what has always been said and always been done is very difficult. It is also powerful, change-making and has shaped our modern world.
Thank you for your bravery!!
8
intergenerational ignorance, handed down in lieu of social capital that can lead to anything that looks like a constructive future
10
It is extraordinarily challenging to reconcile rural America's declarations of faith with actions that so clearly reflect a basis of fear: fear of safety, fear of immigrants, fear of governmental tyranny, fear of other ethnicities, fear of the future. The only logical conclusion is that the religious faith is in a personal salvation centered on a fear of eternal damnation.
And so the country is condemned to politics predicated on exactly the opposite of the unblinking optimism of those who founded it. God may bless America, but a lot of those who claim to stand in His name could not possibly be acting less godly. Keep your old-time religion...please.
11
I would love to see an interview done with the parents/guardians of the school shooters across the country. These are the very parents whose guns were often used for the school shootings. Have they had a change of heart? Do they support legislation to make access to guns more difficult? Do they think the owners of the guns should be penalized if their weapons were not locked up properly? Were they addressing the mental health needs of their children and were they addressing inter-generational trauma. There lots of that and maybe that's the elephant in the room we're ignoring.
7
Students who survived a school shooting had a gun pulled on them by an adult, because they dared to speak out against gun violence?
An entire town who honestly, truly thinks that the solution to having too many people shooting guns inside schools is to have more people shooting guns inside schools?
People who are punching down as hard as they can, deciding that the First Amendment doesn't exist, because they favour the Second Amendment too much?
Has everyone gone insane?
Seriously. Guns are not an ideology. Guns are a tool. They are like a hammer, a screwdriver, a ladder, a car engine. If a car engine was defective and killed people, it would be recalled. We do that, by the way. We also regulate cars, force people to pass tests and keep licenses, and cars weren't designed to kill people. Guns were literally invented to kill people. Not hunt game. Not maintain stock. Not "protect liberty". Guns were invented to kill people. That's the use for the tool.
The real reason for this backlash is that people aren't thinking of guns as a tool. They are thinking of guns as an ideology. Guns end up in the same category as religious belief in God, love and honour for parents, patriotism, sacrifice for the country. Speaking for gun control somehow gets twisted into speaking heresy against apple pie, white socks, and Jesus Christ.
But it's not. Guns are just a tool. They're just metal.
The word for people who can't disassociate tools from ideology is "radicalized".
22
Strong young people. Standing firm against a tide of ignorance and the lame excuses of those who simply deny all evidence for the sake of a weapon that--in the vast majority of cases, would be twenty times more likely to kill an innocent or blow off their own toe--rather than allowing them to fulfill their fantasy of emerging from a violent incident as a smooth talkin', gun totin' hero.
My advice to these young people? Move. ASAP. Leave these small minded people (who care more about their God given right to unload a semi-automatic on a feisty squirrel--than your right to Freedom of Speech)--in the dust and in your rearview mirror. You are better than them and you will find better than them. Let the world open up to you as theirs closes in on them.
17
What is the correlation between the availability of guns, and shootings?
What is the correlation between the number of guns floating around in an area and the number of shootings?
What is the chance that YOU will DIE in an area / state with lots of guns?
Why is it such a big deal when the NYPD collects a gun? What do they know?
2
There is a strong correlation. The U.S. has by far and away the highest density of guns of any first world country and we have by far and away the highest death rate from guns of any 1st world country. Only a small handful of 3rd world countries (e.g. Syria) have a higher gun death rate than we do.
5
Everyone who owns one or more guns should be registered with proof that they have a sufficient LOCK UP cabinet. OWNERS who's guns are used in a crime should be jailed for a minimum of 1 year when their guns are used in a crime including relatives.
This will solve the problem of parent's guns OR stolen guns being used because they will take that VERY seriously. If the cabinet can be breached that only means the cabinet need to be specifically designed to prevent entry without a key.
7
Killing someone with a gun is bad. That doesn't make everyone with a gun bad. As long as one side's moral zealotry in the gun control debate portrays the other side as such, the divide will only widen. The NRA is not the real enemy, it is us.
And pray tell how does the NRA portray the other side. Raging extremist liberals all hammering to take all their guns away?
2
I applaud these schoolchildren for standing up for what they believe in. I wish the reaction of the parents who lost their children in the Benton, KY incident were recorded by NYT as part of this article. It is a clear sign of disrespect and lack of empathy on part of the adults when they do not welcome or even tolerate a meaningful gun control discussion. They are truly forsaken.
Keep marching and may you succeed.
7
It is also difficult to be someone in a rural environment who reads books, listens to music other than country music, appreciates ballet, or engages in any cultural activities other than rightwing hate
14
I disagree with the TACTICS of those who want to ban guns.
Politically you don't have the votes to do this.
BUT you give credence to those who argue that ANY gun safety measures are one step to total gun confiscation.
There are of course some gun nuts who no matter what would oppose any gun safety measures.
But there are many gun owners who would support reasonable gun safety measures if they were assured these would not lead to gun confiscation.
We need support of these responsible gun owners in order to pass gun safety measures.
What are reasonable gun safety measures.
Universal back ground checks, requiring guns in home to be stored safely, limits on clip /magazine capacity.
1
Why does any thought on rational gun measures get translated to "banning guns"? Maybe if the NRA and gun adherents actually heard what was said rather than translating it a discussion of the type you mention could take place.
1
The NRA has become part of the gun makers industry.
The gun makers make money by selling guns.
Gun safety measures will decrease gun sales and gun industry profits.
Gun makers do not want to see their profits decrease.
Therefore to make more money they have convinced many people that gun safety measures lead to confiscation of guns.
Students who are standing up against gun violence: know that you are not alone, even though it must be god-awfully lonely there in Benton. Trust your own reasoning, not that of the gun culture. Yours is far more rational. And in terms of the kind of society the founding fathers tried to craft, it is far closer to the American idea. Hold on. You are the patriots.
15
Yes, the kids profiled in this article feel as alienated deep in red states as ardent and vocal Second Amendment enthusiast students would feel in deep blue states such as NY or CA.
1
In a society where everyone is armed for "safety", this means that one of the 'good guys' would be killed before fire is returned because 'bad guys' usually shoot first.
6
No wonder young folks are leaving small towns in droves.
20
Re the father who says his son only alive because he's a competitive shooter and therefore recognized the sound of gunshots... since when is recognizing the sound of gunshots some rarefied skill? It's really not hard at all... anyone who's hard actual gunfire will tell you it's instantly recognizable.
13
Vote kids vote
Register today and never miss an opportunity to vote wherever you are
Participate
26
Yes T, exactly right, rural America is rotting from the inside clinging to very old ideas and tribalism that keeps them proud and viable to themselves only. The very idea of sending your child to college with a gun for protection sounds to me like a pioneer going out to the wild west fearing for ones life. Meanwhile the coastal cities advance without tribalism but more diversity and liberal ideas, but not stuck in fear and the fanatical obsession for the need for guns.
15
Tribalism exists in coastal cities as well. I live in NY. Try renting an apartment in an affluent neighborhood in Manhattan if you're a minority and you are treated with suspicion by neighbors. I consider myself to be pretty liberal but am not naive enough to think of coastal cities as bastions of liberalism. It's good compared to red states but do not paint too rosy a picture please.
3
Totally agree, plenty of problems in coastal cities. But they are not dead like many rural towns in the us with no hope they will ever have revival. There is plenty of racism here too (SF bay area) but there is a large opposition to that racism.
5
I stand with the kids who are speaking out despite tremendous pressure. I am sure I have succeeded in antagonizing over half of the population in our region. But that's OK. These kids along with their connectivity peers have been vilified, called names and in every way imaginable been revictimized. And all as the result of wide spread paranoia that "someone" is going to come door to door confiscating guns. This isn't the first school shooting in our region. The first occurred 20 years ago in neighboring MCCracken County. Two shootings should humble us and drive us to answers rather than judgement.
13
“I don’t think the Second Amendment is the issue,” said Kevin Neal, Marshall County’s judge/executive. “If somebody gets it in their head they’re going to kill, they’re going to do it.”
The above is an example of sloppy thinking. Yea, someone might have it in their mind to kill, the question is, what kinds of weapons do they have or can they get to carry out what's in their minds. It's easier to run from a knife welding killer than to out run bullets. It's easier for several people to deal with a knife welding killer than a killer with a gun.
18
When gun owners say “wouldn’t you want to be armed when someone tries to attack you?” Who are these “someone’s”? Is rural America infested with wild animals, a band of outlaws or renegades that’s why people need powerful guns? Do they not have law enforcement in that area? Do people not lookout for each other that guns are needed? It’s one thing to have a gun, another thing to have the emotional, mental maturity and training to use a weapon in highly charged situations. Cops train over and over again in various situations because they are walking around with a gun; meanwhile, civilians fill out a few forms, complete a few questionnaires and viola, have gun and sometimes walk around with the gun. Can someone please shed light on this?
7
Me, You touched on something. Rural areas normally do not have a police cruiser just minutes away, that is one reason that they are called rural.
3
Dear Me In The City, in my area, no, we do not have law enforcement as you define the term. The nearest sheriff's office with full time manning is, literally, ninety miles from my horse farm. The response time to any 9-1-1 call I make could be measured in hours. Yes, predatory animals who would like to kill and eat my horses do frequent my area. Yes, my horse stables were broken into and vandalized by local yahoos. The nearest sheriff on duty came to my horse farm a couple days after I phoned in my complaint, took some photos, wrote out a report, and, beyond that, did absolutely nothing. This is the Great American Wild West and justice out here tends to be of the do-it-yourself variety. Perhaps you should do more traveling in rural areas so you can understand the situations people have to confront in my area.
Hearing how these young people are harassed and reading some of the comments does remind me that even though I am convinced of my opinion and hope that I will use positive and reasonable discourse to try to approach the gun issue, I too often do not and use dismissive and biased language. This reminds me that children not only who share my position and are derided but those opposing me, often through love of their own heritage and family traditions, do not deserve my negative remarks, nor probably do they respond well to that kind of dismissive dialogue. I do not believe guns are a good idea. But I can do a better job of making my point positively, expecting to not get my ideal solution and trying to respect the opinions of others, in the hopes of some kind of civil compromise in the future. I will make that today's takeaway.
5
Endless applause to the outspoken youth in Marshall and every where else in America. You are the brave, "rugged individuals", daring to stand up against the mass of cowards seeking safety within their tribal packs.
You are discovering that in this life, not everyone is going to like you or agree with you, and that's okay. That's the way it is in the real world. Maybe not so much in the fantasy world of red rural America - yet.
We Are
Marshall
10
It's amazing how easily people can turn a half empty glass into a half full one . It's not about hunting rabbits anymore but humans , especially their children and still they persist in defense of the NRA's lies . No one is advocating the banning of all guns but banning military type weapons for civilian use , better mental health access , responsible gun ownership by locking weapons in a safe , proper gun registration , and yes , guns sold in gun shops not gun shows . The students of Marshall County are brave , knowing very well what the backlash would be and I applaud them . When people disagree and shun you , stand tall . Mary Cox's father has the right approach by encouraging her to to stay true to her beliefs , although they disagree . If only more adults would only follow this sensible view of parenting when it comes to serious issues in life .
7
Concerned about political correctness? When you cannot voice your own thoughtful opinion without being considered a traitor, this is political correctness in overdrive.
14
I admire Moriah's intelligence and character. Despite the heavy social pressure, she is persisting in thinking for herself and exploring new solutions to a serious problem. I hope the people around her come to appreciate what a good citizen she is, and listen to her sensible suggestions. I wish her well!
5
"Cloi said she had been at a friend’s house one afternoon when her friend’s father pulled out his AR-15 to show her “what you guys are trying to ban.”"
So this guy felt *so* threatened by these kids' words, that he had to threaten one of them with an AR-15? And these people ask us why we think they should be banned? Good grief!
20
I don’t know that displaying the AR was wrong. It’s his house and his property, so it’s not fair for him to hide out in his home. That said, I probably would have kept it out of sight, whenever children were around. But, if he just *had* to defend the 2A, he could have said “I own an AR-15. I’ve never hurt anyone with it, and I never will. Have you ever seen an AR? Have you ever used one? You’re entitled to your beliefs, but they should be sincere. It’s irrational and immoral to condemn a choice that you’re unfamiliar with.”. Regrettably, that dad preferred to meet this girl’s protest with an ugly show of force. He “bigly” overreacted to a peaceful call for change from a smaller, younger, unarmed person. Shame on him.
3
I see no evidence of a crime here. I guess that when I go out to dine and someone has a knife I should complain that a knife was pulled on me?
1
Wow! Almost as unpopular as pro civil rights was in the '60s. Keep up the pressure because we know who won the fight for civil rights.
25
I'm amused that liberals compare their present struggle for gun control to the civil rights one of the sixties. With the latter they fought for civil rights. With the former they are fighting against them, the Second Amendment being front and center. Yes, we know who won the battle for civil rights in the sixties and who will win it now. It's not going to be those opposed to them.
2
D. C., A little research on your part will reveal that civil rights leaders of the 1960's were adamently opposed to gun control.
1
I suspect there are kids in New York who are in favor of gun rights and find it hard to express their opinion. I would like everybody to be able to express their sincerely held opinions.
5
People in favor of gun rights already have the NRA and government on their side speaking for them by refusing to even consider the slightest change to make it a little harder for horrible people to get weapons that can cause mass murders.
11
Look, I can't speak for all people in New York State, but I have never been afraid to express a contrary opinion here, even when I was in school, and if a pro-gun advocate were to explain his or her positions to me I would totally be open to having a discussion with him or her. I would be polite and respectful; the only thing I would ask from that person was the same. I would like everybody to be able to express his or her sincerely held opinions with thoughtfulness and without fear of being harassed, bullied, or abused. What needs to end is the assumptions we make about each other based on our backgrounds and the regions of the country we're from, and you can start us off by chucking your assumption that more conservative-minded New York State kids can't express their opinions because of the generally liberal-minded state in which they live. This is New York: when has anyone in this state ever been afraid to express his or her opinion about anything, good, bad, indifferent, or otherwise?
3
I grew up shooting and am a gun owner, but I also believe in much tighter gun regulations. This is not your grandfather's America any more, too many guns, too easily obtained in the wrong hands. And the NRA went from being a benign organization focused on education to being a terrorist group. I want to see so-called responsible gun owners stop fretting that "liberals" are trying to take our guns and come up with better, workable solutions. All that other NRA stuff are red herrings meant to distract you.
19
What's too many guns too easily obtained in the wrong hands is a matter of personal opinion, not fact. The market decides how many guns there are, not the government. If we the people through our elected officials determine that certain individuals are too dangerous to possess a firearm because of their past actions then they better be removed from free society until its been confirmed by the courts and other professionals that they're a minimal threat. That's the closest guarantee that they won't take an innocent life. In regards to your comment about the NRA being a domestic terrorist organization, don't confuse them with Planned Parenthood and other abortion providers. Under the law guns can't legally be used to terminate an innocent human being while abortion can. The NRA has zero blood on its' hands. Abortion providers do literally. Of course liberals don't want any part of that discussion and will continue to act as though they're such great humanitarians concerned about protecting lives while their views and actions prove otherwise. Finally, as far as coming up with better, workable solutions are concerned, liberals should follow their own advice. The Second Amendment and the 320 million firearms in circulation aren't going away and that "gun free zone" sign has failed miserably. All solutions must be looked at through that lens. Whether liberals like it or not is irrelevant. Reality is often a pain in the butt.
2
I would add to my prior comment about getting the idea into your head to kill someone, that when the means to do it easily is so readily available, those thoughts are much easier to entertain for more than three seconds, and then act on.
4
Another proposal consistent with Heller is a proposal to close the gun show loophole.
Organizers of major gun shows in NYS agreed to the following.
“They [ operators of major gun shows in NYS] agreed to procedures that would track all guns brought into the show by private sellers. Each weapon is tagged so that operators could track sales and background checks. Private sellers have to account for every gun they bring into the show. If they sell a weapon they have to produce paperwork to prove that the buyer passed a background check and the buyer has to show proof that he passed a check before leaving the show with his purchase."
See “Enough” by Kelly and Giffords page 188
"An investigation of gun shows in three states found that 63% of private sellers sold guns to purchasers who had told the sellers that they [the purchasers] probably couldn't pass a background check."
Winkler “Gunfight” page 74
10
These children are victims. But like the hyper-valorized activist kids from leftist communities, they seem to feel that any disagreement with their policy goals is a personal, and thus unacceptable, attack on them. When you enter the arena of activism, you are signing up to debate an issue publicly. You are expressing a point of view. A good comparison is the role of victims versus litigators in our criminal courts: victims are mere witnesses. If you wish to advocate for a side in a courtroom, you become an attorney. You learn the arguments and the precedents and speak with authority within the framework of the justice system. Our schools are encouraging a very narcissistic and anti-intellectual activism in lieu of teaching children how to take experiences like these and use them to learn how to grow up and engage in politics -- for this is all politics -- with useful skills and training. Teach a man to protest and he will wave a sign with seven words on it all day. Teach a man to debate, research facts, formulate policies, and engage intelligently with his opponents and he will have the tools and knowledge to actually make something of both his tragedy and his mind.
5
Well written (though I don't agree with all of your opinions).... that said, isn't this what these students are learning about by becoming active (policy, debate, activism, etc.)? WaPo also had an interesting article about some students in Gillette, Wyoming who are advocating for a change in our gun policies--very impressive efforts and an excellent overview at the 'rural perspective.' https://wapo.st/2rP5tyC
I also find it interesting that the 'activist' students in rural areas appear to be exclusively female.
3
My suggestion is to let the people in the wildly in favor of guns states have their guns. There is nothing we can do to change that as its in their blood. Just don't let them into your state with a gun. Two things though...1. If they do bring a gun into your state have a really tough law that penalizes them severely, and 2. Think twice about visiting such a state.
9
"In a more liberal city like Parkland, Fla., or at a rally in Washington, these students might have been celebrated as young leaders."
There rests the solution for these liberal kids in a few years when they become adults. America is a large, diverse country and they're free to vote with their feet and move to a location that shares their beliefs no matter how ineffective, impractical and stupid. With liberals results never matter. Feeling better about themselves and advancing a failed ideological, political and policy agenda does. If these kids want to take it a step further, our most previous so-called president while trying to gain support for and pass his gun control agenda mentioned several countries that he believes are model ones for the United States. They're also free to move to anyone of those.
At the end of the day violent crime and gun violence overall has been cut in half since its' peak in the early nineties and less kids are killed in school as a result of it. That has happened even as we've added tens of million more people and guns to the population. The Second Amendment and the estimated 320 million firearms in circulation aren't going away. Either accept it and search for policy prescriptions that address the underlying causes of violence and better secure locations or move. If the latter, you won't be missed and don't let the door hit you on the way out.
2
Be careful what you wish for or you'll soon find your rural towns and communities even more bereft of the intelligent, compassionate young adults that they so desperately need to survive. We'll be welcoming them to our "failed" progressive enclaves as your tax bases erode, jobs evaporate, and the population rapidly ages.
And as small-town America rejects the future and continues its fall into poverty and desolation, free to - as I once heard someone say - "Either accept it and search for policy prescriptions that address the underlying causes...or move"
6
I don't consider young adults with liberal views to be intelligent, compassionate or necessary for the survival of my community or any other. What I see from many of them in the present debate confirms it. You can welcome the David Hoggs of the country to your progressive enclaves that are largely filled with debt, congestion, crime, poverty, racial tensions, bad public education, pollution, and confrontation with law enforcement all you want. We don't want them and that describes my state's largest city (Milwaukee) and many others perfectly. Also, if they are terrified of gun violence where they presently live, just wait until they move into a large urban area. While rural America no doubt has its' challenges so does urban America that is the most loudest in the gun debate and for good reason. It sure isn't because life is all fine and good there the way you seem to make it sound. As the old saying goes, the best thing about me is that I'm not you. I'll take rural America's problems over urban Americas every day of the week.
Very well said, our rural county averages one murder about every 50 years, gun ownership is high, gun crime is low. We vote also, anyone who wants to stay in office knows they must support the second amendment.
We live out of town, 20-30 minutes from a deputy responding to any crime. So if some meth head breaks into my house, I am on my own. I will protect my wife and kids. You think restricting the gun rights of law abiding citizens, protecting their families will fly in rural America? You want to ban semi automatic weapons, which have been around forever? We aren't the problem.
Maybe a good start would be to enforce the laws we have, starting with prosecuting people who lie on the background checks when attempting to purchase a firearm. These are rarely prosecuted, as are the felon in possession of a firearm cases.
It's not the backlash by pro-gun people against ant-gun people that shocks me. It's the backlash by adults against children. A teacher, cloaked in the authority of the school, berating a student because she wears a T-shirt that displays the bald truth of school shootings in Kentucky in cartographic detail. A deacon, cloaked in the moral authority of the church, "warning" another student that he sounds like a Democrat. A town in which parents who support their daughter's right to disagree stands out as the exception, not the rule.
When the adults offer this example of moral cowardice and insecurity, how can the children fail to follow their lead? As sadly, most of them seem to.
26
And then rural areas wonder why they have such a hard time with their kids staying in town, much less attracting cutting edge industries or healthcare professionals like myself. I did part of my training in rural areas - I believe everyone deserves good care - but even more than the relative lack of amenities (variety of restauarants, cultural activities, etc.), it is the attitudes of rural areas that puts me and many colleagues off. We don't want our kids exposed to such teachers or stupid gun policies which literally might hurt/ kill them. And if you're an ethnic minority like me, you stick out even more.
6
Our young are our future. Glad to see that young people throughout this nation are using their critical thinking skills and realizing that guns need to be controlled. If we cannot identify people who are mentally unstable or enraged enough to commit murder then we must control that what we can, guns. We are not ready yet to let them go completely, one day we will reach that point. But today we must protect our young if this means to curtail the access to guns and control them more efficiently then so be it. I applaud all these young people who have gone against their neighbors to free themselves from the chains of the old ways. In Nov. 2018, we should all support them by voting out the Congress bought by the NRA.
7
And yet somehow liberals are depicted as the ones stifling ideas and freedom of speech... this is exactly what I see with a lot of my family. They are incredulous at liberals for their (supposed) lack of free thinking and for not allowing other viewpoints, but just try to share an opposing viewpoint with them, even politely. Just try.
27
Are you really that ignorant as to why liberals are depicted as the ones stifling ideas and freedom of speech or do you conveniently ignore it? Allow me to inconveniently remind you that scheduled college university speakers and campaign rallies across the country have been cancelled in recent years because of the threats and actual violence from liberals. Even when they weren't cancelled, they made a point to create disruptions and chaos. Their mentality being that they can shout down everyone who is scheduled to speak. Add to it all of these intellectual safe spaces being created on college campuses and ridiculous discussions about microaggressions and the need for trigger warnings to protect students and it shouldn't be a surprise that liberals are overwhelmingly responsible for the erosion of free speech. They then call themselves tolerant. What a joke. Show me one example of Trump supporters getting a Clinton or Sanders event cancelled. How about one of conservatives on college campuses using threats and violence to get a liberal speaker cancelled? Good luck Reader!
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/12/us/trump-rally-in-chicago-canceled-af...
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/protests-violence-prompts-uc-berkel...
14
You are citing two events that, although I do not agree with how the protesters handled them, I would say there were extenuating circumstances (known racist preaching racism and a very divisive, bullying politician. The kids in this article were not trying to stifle ideas, but the people who attacked them on social media certainly were. There is plenty of stifling by the right, you are choosing to ignore it and focus on a couple specific incidents of stifling by the left - again, not acceptable by either side.
Why get on your hind legs if you feel that it is wrong for the significantly smaller problem of college campuses to cancel talks?
Because you have your sensibilities offended, is it then alright for small towns to control what is being discussed by their own kids who have actually had their friends mowed down?
It is not a victim contest. People want to end having their kids killed. To find solutions.
I think it was Victor Hugo who said that if you have enemies, that is good, because it means you stood up for something different and novel. These kids should be proud.
12
If we were indeed "one nation, under god, indivisible...." then something could be done at the national level. But we are not...we are 50 separate nation states, and in each of those states there are little gerrymandered pockets of people who believe what they believe and elect their own house member. Any effort to do something for the good of the whole, like considering the public health implications of guns, is futile. This is what makes us different than Sweden or Finland and why we will never advance as a nation. End of story
6
As an outsider looking in, the issue of gun control looks like a lot of yelling back and forth with no one willing to sit down and have a constructive debate. I have yet to see any justification for easy access to automatic weapons for anyone other than military or law enforcement. As a youth, friends and I often went skeet shooting as well as target shooting with a variety of shotguns (12 and 20 ga) and handguns (.22, 9 mm, .45) - I enjoyed it immensely and complying with the restrictions around ownership in Canada were not an issue for us.
To the folks who think that arming teachers and allowing everyone to carry arms, highly trained experts make mistakes, how do you think everyday citizens would cope with the knowledge that they shot and killed someone - perhaps an innocent bystander? How do the response teams react when they arrive at the site and see several shooters? Who is the bad guy? What if they shoot and kill both assailants and protectors? I understand the feeling that people need to protect themselves, however, the current approach does not seem to be reducing the rate of mass shootings.
A rational, public debate around the issue is needed - the 2nd Amendment was created when there was a need to raise local, armed militias for protection and there was not a huge standing military in place as there is today.
8
It is terribly sad that many rural Americans feel so threatened by talk of reducing gun violence that they will stoop to insulting and shunning kids in their own communities.
Having bought the gun lobby and GOP talking points, rural America is actively orchestrating its own demise, turning their communities into insular, conservative enclaves that many of their children will be desperate to escape when they are olde enough to do so.
15
VICE news had an interesting piece on the Santa Fe shooting last night where they were interviewing a senior at the high school who was berating the "idiots" supporting gun control. And he went on in fairly poor English to insist that the gun control people were all wrong, and stupid, and how what was needed were processes like mental health checks and other things that might make guns more difficult for the wrong people to get. So.... he was advocating for gun control while parroting how people who support gun control are idiots.
One of the biggest challenges America has been dealing with the past few decades has been the the hypocrisies, the inferiority complex, and the resulting stagnation of our rural areas. Gun controls is just one facet of that larger issue, and that interview was a great example of where what passes for education in these towns isn't preparing kids for the future.
13
We assume that most small communities lose population because their young people move away for better job opportunities. Sometimes, however, those communities become so small minded that they ostracize the young people who would be their next generation of leaders, those who dare to think differently. Not coincidentally, those are the same innovative people who might otherwise start a new business, make a link to an outside company, or otherwise find a way to grow the local economy. In the case of this small town, "We Are Marshall" refers not to the whole town, but to those who choose to get along, unquestioningly. The kids fighting for reasonable gun control are obviously no longer "Marshall". They will go somewhere, and take along with them their ability to think independently and express themselves.
17
Call me an East Coast liberal (I am ) or elitist (that's fine too) if you like.
But, areas like Western Kentucky lag behind the rest of the nation in almost every measure of success, be it economic indicators, rates of education, life expectancy, etc.
It is no coincidence that many folks in these same areas seem to have a visceral aversion to science, reason, and objective, fact-based decision making.
These kids are intelligent and should not have to be exposed to such reactions.
After graduation, they will likely move. Perhaps to "East Coast liberal" locations. It will be our gain. And sadly, their loss will continue the cycle of ignorance in places like Western Kentucky.
25
Larry, We could change the economic indicators and education but that would require tax money and we know how coastal areas object to helping flyover areas, it is cheaper and much more fun to denigrate them instead.
1
Courts, concerts, sports stadiums, airports and the white house all use metal detectors and bag checks to protect them.
Time to adapt.
If high schools are the new killing ground then that's were metal detectors and bag checks need to be, duh.
How about restricting easy access to guns?
How about sensible ownership requirements like screening, training, safe storage and insurance?
You're correct about the "duh" part, America is the only western society stuck in the "duh" aspect.
1
Garbage response with no answers.
You're not taking guns from the hands of Americans, period. Keep dreaming.
You're not closing the black market for guns either meaning the public will always be at risk.
Firearms are American culture and through them we got our nation.
If you don't like it you can leave to a communist country where you seem you'll fit right in.
No one not even government have the right to say whether you can or can't defend yourself.
But, the background check works.
There's enough screening, gun ownership in America is a RIGHT, not a privilege.
Training? That's why you take the class to qualify for the gun permit. At least that's how it is here in CT.
Safe storage? I agree 100% but I don't need government telling me what to do in my home.
Insurance? No. Again, a right, not a privilege.
They do sell insurance just in case you get into legal trouble with your firearm.
This is America and we lead, not follow from behind.
The constitution is what makes us America.
Not cowardice.
Free men here who don't give a damn about your commie mentality and anti-American stance.
Also, if your empty words and treasonous agenda aren't saving lives, why not agree with what has already proven to save lives like metal detectors and bag checks?
I wouldn't expect people who agree with murdering children in the womb to value lives anyhow.
The truly sad thing here is that people assume the "worst" about each other, no longer listening to what the other has to say. Once again, instead of a dialogue, we have echo chamber monologues. If you genuinely value learning, remember that you learn from people who think differently, not those who think as you do.
The move toward dangerous polarization has been hugely exacerbated by our national leaders, talk radio, cable TV, and the internet which, 24/7, provide reassurance that whatever you think is true, if not God-given certainty.
It is necessary to develop a real program, maybe different ones for different places, and then form a coalition to advocate for appropriate legislation among those whose attitudes toward guns vary.
I expect most hunters -- certainly the ones I know -- are more responsible in the safety and use of their guns than the average driver is with his or her car. You can't simply put all gun owners in one box. Rural hunters, fearful urbanites, Rambo wannabees, and others are really in separate categories. The same can be said for AK-47s, shotguns, rifles, and handguns.
The first thing that needs to be done is to specify what one means by "gun control." A slogan without content will not create the political alliances needed. There are many, if not most, gun owners who would support all sorts of measures, if they were reassured that registering felons, psychotics, and abusers wasn't the first step on a slippery slope toward confiscation.
3
"There are many, if not most, gun owners who would support all sorts of measures, if they were reassured that registering felons, psychotics, and abusers wasn't the first step on a slippery slope toward confiscation."
I'm sure this is true. But how? Nearly every gun owner I know is convinced that those who advocate closing the gun show loophole, carrying liability insurance on guns, having a waiting period, background checks, banning enhancements like bump-stocks, etc., really want to remove ALL guns from private citizens. Nothing anyone says will budge them from that viewpoint. When I say that's NOT what I want or support, the answer is "I don't believe you." How do I reassure someone who is convinced I'm lying?
1
If you speak out for gun control, you are a school shooting survivor. If you speak for second amendment, you are the guy that hid in the room next to where shooting took place. And nyt screams its unbiased journalism. Way to go!!
1
I do not understand why people in rural areas, who enjoy hunting, think there is no solution to having their very own children killed by other “hunters”. If they can come to love their children more than they love their guns, only then is there hope.
4
This article points out not only the problems in rural areas but in the country as a whole. Gun owners see the government out to get their guns and other opposed to gun ownership as evil to own one. The truth is somewhere in the middle. Responsible gun owners learn to handle and keep their guns in a safe and responsible manner. You will also find that many of these same gun owners agree that there is no place for military style weapons or bump stocks in the hands of gun owners. These same people are for enhanced background checks. closing loopholes at gun shows and requiring that guns be locked at all times when not in use. The majority of people in this country have similar beliefs. Its a shame that these kids have to suffer under the beliefs of people even their own families that can't see the middle ground. To them just like the NRA its all or nothing compromise to them is a dirty word and that is sad and disturbing.
1
Can't we all agree that guns in the home should be properly secured.
Either carried on the person if the gun owner is that paranoid or else locked in safes or disabled with a gun lock.
Too many children [these last murders were by a 17 year old] have accessed their parents' guns and killed.
This does not mean taking guns from people.
The penalty for not securing a gun should be made more severe.
Consider drunk driving laws. We do not tell someone not to drink but there are consequences [should be more severe than are now] if someone drunk kills someone in an accident.
Person is prosecuted for vehicular homicide.
Do same with gun ownership.
Heller upheld right of gun ownership in home.
People can make a choice.
If you have guns then secure them and or be prosecuted for homicide if your gun is used in a crime.
12
I lived in KY for 5 years a long time ago.
Once you leave Loiusville or maybe Lexington, the state is crimson red and very far right: Sort of like Sec. Mulveny on steroids!
Religion is a toxic blend of hate and bigotry; especially in small rural towns and it's hard to know where religion leaves off and politics takes over! My friend told me that if I ever got stopped in a rural part of the state, "be careful of what you say with that Yankee accent and your big mouth"!
I always heeded his words!
Wouldn't be ironic if the 2nd amendment was the catalyst for civil insurrection or worse, civil war in the US?
18
These same rural towns lament that their young people move away and never come back. They lament that there is a brain drain because the few who go on to college never come back. I see it in my own town. Young people who are smart go off to college and only come back to visit their family at Christmas and the rest sit on their front porches, drink beer, and pretend that factories will come back one day. Heck, Walmart pulled out of this town and is never coming back. Do these rural folks who love their guns understand why the best and brightest leave?
43
@Ted Pikul: People who speak out in favor of gun control in these rural towns are silenced, threatened, shunned, and publicly admonished. Not only are their first amendment rights being curtailed, it is being done by folks who love to criticize "the left" for not listening to opposing opinions. Worst of all, in their indignant self-righteousness, these adults cow children into submission and do not allow them to develop, hold, or express opinions that differ from their own. It's tribalism at its worst.
3
Ted- are you kidding? If your town is basically saying no one - even high school kids who have actually seen their own friends murdered- who thinks differently than Fox News has to leave, then leave they will. Along with their talent and resources. This stuff is all connected.
2
The larger issue is that the worldview employed by Red areas in the US is increasingly dysfunctional. During the Bush-Gore election, the GDP split was about 50-50 red versus blue. During the Trump Clinton election, That split was 64-36 in favor of blue. By 2020 that's expected to be 70/30. In point of fact, red areas are increasingly dependent on Blue areas for their economic survival via all sorts of subsidies.
How does this fold into gun control? In two ways. First, it demonstrates a value system based on literal interpretation of the King James version of the Bible just doesn't work in the information age and is increasingly unable to deal with the challenges posed by the functional information age. Second, it demonstrates that a public unable to critically think cannot deal with the issues but nor even understand the issues in any sort of meaningful functional manner.
So the challenge is not just gun control. The challenge is what do we do in the US, when part of the population are increasingly dependent and who are hostile to the very qualities necessary to prosper in the 21st century.
33
Here in a rural Maine high school, we discussed Parkland as it related to our study of the Bill of Rights and the Second Amendment. I had students privately write on a prompt which asked whether we have the right balance in America between freedom and important the societal interests of maintaining order and public safety. During class discussions, the gun rights proponents were most vocal. I heard many repeat the truism that it is "the person not the gun." But upon reading the written reflections, I noticed that the classes were more split down the middle on gun control than it appeared. This shows the power of conformity in rural communities on the gun control issue, but it also suggests that the privacy of the ballot box may allow for some deviation from rural orthodoxy on the issue. The key to reaching some of the changeable minds in rural America is to be willing to listen to all points of view and demonstrate that rural folks won't be giving up their firearms in the entirety.
16
I for one think students need to stop protesting guns and instead start advocating for mandatory bullet proof vests during school hours. We have to wear seat belts in cars, so our kids should have to wear tac-vests during school.
Maybe when legislatures start seeing kindergartners running around during recess with an inch of body armor, then they might realize how stupid gun rights have become in the modern era.
10
Please don’t give them that idea...recess is already too short for many kids. And with ammosexuals and their paid reps on Congress, that would actually be a solution they’d get behind.
3
Guns in the United States are a cult. The main organization that pushes this pseudo religion is the NRA. More people worship the Second Amendment in this country than Jesus. The church in many places is subservient to the cult. You can’t argue with a group that has been brain washed.
30
As one of the (fortunately) few Canadians to have experienced a school shooting I cannot imagine how abandoned the disregard, lack of concern, and inaction on the part of parents, communities, and governments must make these children and others all across the United States feel. Since we hunt and shoot targets in Canada, we have not banned hunting rifles or target pistols. We do not, however, have access to killing machines like the AR-15, and we do not carry handguns. You know, like the rest of the world.
37
Agreed. And there is no widespread belief evident among Canadians that security and freedom from oppression is a function of personal ownership and use of guns.
9
"Mr. Neal, a hulking former Marine, is a staunch gun rights supporter who said he carried a pistol on his side as he finished his lunch at JoJo’s Café." Hmmm...in the Marines and now into open carry. This guy has serious masculinity issues. Wonder why he's over-compensating.
15
That helps
1
Wonderfully open minded attitude that just adds to the coastal elite meme. Kind of the cousin to HRC’s deplorables. Obviously, if someone’s politics don’t track your own, they must not be a educated, intelligent, articulate or sophisticated as you
3
Wise, brave students of Marshall County, KY—please know you are on the right side of history and represent solid facts in your protest over America’s failure to enact sensible restrictions to guns. The experiences of other democratic nations clearly show that gun control does reduce mass killings and does not curtail basic freedoms.
Your country was founded by people who revered science and reason and protested being pawns to the business interests of the crown. You honor them with your actions.
14
The public's backlash on the courage some students showed to try to institute reason in the gun mayhem, is regrettable and shameful...and may not change until one of their own is mowed down. And for that to occur, the issue it is 'not if but when'. Can't we show solidarity for once, and feel the despair and suffering from our fellow human beings? Or have we become so callous we don't care?
7
It's not "courage" to try to take away other people's civil rights.
1
jkw, the rights of citizens are bestowed by other citizens via an agreement as to what constitutes the rights of citizenship.
As you're well aware, the second amendment is just that, an amendment to a document, based upon the needs of the citizens.
As time progresses and society changes, amendments to governing documents are required to keep them valid.
There's no cast in stone right to gun ownership, it's something your fellow citizens have agreed to grant you, they can also agree to restrict or limit such ownership, and you have no "right" to anything else if they don't allow it.
If governing documents were never updated, they would become irrelevant with the passage of time.
1
I commend these brave students for standing up for themselves and trying to open a dialog toward a solution to the mass-shooting epidemic in this country. Shame on those those who ridicule and intimidate these children for lack of a coherent argument in support of their irrational views. The contention by many of these ill-informed people that the mass-shooting problem is complex flies in the face of one simple fact: If these people who supposedly will find a way to kill no matter what can't get guns in the first place, then they can't massacre large numbers of other people.
7
The time for responsible gun safety is now. Let's show we care for our fellow citizens (and our own) right to stay alive by electing officials who will prevent criminals from getting their hands on a killing machine.
5
Just a few days ago the NYTimes ran an editorial that condemned liberals as being exclusionary and closed minded when it comes to conservative concerns and issues. This story is a potent refutation of this.
11
What's bizarre isn't people shooting turkeys or target practicing. That's to be expected.
What's strange is dad's taking out an AR-15 and saying he needs it to protect his family. From what? An invasion of urban minorities? An invasion of leftist hippies? Or maybe he believes in the coming zombie apocolypse.
This is where the debate lies. It's not about hunting. It's about killing humans. That's what "our side" supports?
22
What makes you think Oakland police are terrified at home? Fear doesn't work that way. If this story tells us anything, it's that fear is irrational. Fear of someone marauding. Even the fear of mass shootings. Poor urban kids are 10 times more likely to die from guns than others. They're the ones who should be afraid, but they can't admit it: it's too real. Fear is a privaledge.
Look at police in cities where they've cut violence by an order of magnitude - LA, NY, Boston. How'd they do it? #1 thing: guns off the street.
Your gun love directly threatens me. Because every US city is permeable, so if there's a nearby state where guns are easy to get, they end up here. To undermine law and order.
That's what police care about.
1
It's like some episode of Twilight Zone or X-Files, where the whole town are brainwashed cultists, except a small group of sane people.
Kids, the rest of the world are with you, keep fighting!
22
It would be wonderful if the NY Times had a piece: "For Urban/Urbane Students, Gun Rights Can Be A Lonely Cause."
It's always one side of the street.
4
So many commenters move straight to the middle ground, expressing no issue with hunting rifles or guns thought to be needed for self protection. But those are still guns. The latest attrocity was committed with a shotgun and a hand gun - in other words, weapons for hunting and self defense.
We need to start stigmatizing ALL guns. Reframe the debate. Ask gun owners why anyone would want a disgusting killing machine in their home.
7
Our young people are most affected by the rash of school shootings, and we should be willing to listen to what they have to say about the policies that affect their lives. In recent days I have heard middle school students express their anxiety about moving up to high school because of the shootings.
I think we should encourage young people to speak up on issues that have a direct impact on them. My grandson is a plaintiff in Our Children’s Trust climate lawsuit against the governor and state officials for failing to act on climate change. He has experienced considerable backlash at his school and in the local newspaper. Online comments have been peppered with references to “dumb kids” and “brainwashed” kids. My grandson and so many other young people today are learning the hard way about the social cost of standing up for what you believe. They need our support.
14
A side issue here is that rural towns that at one time had lots of social diversity have been completely dominated by media outlets that offer one acceptable point of view.
Many have church pastors have also "gone along" with a "conservative" political agenda that originated with Roger Ailes of Fox-( yes the Roger Ailes who got canned for sexually assaulting his female staff members for them to advance in his company) instead of actually promoting the teachings of Christ. Christianity is not the same as the GOP political group no matter how loud they say it.
Combine that with ugly social consequences for anyone who exhibits free thoughts of any kind, social stigma for even reasonable disagreement and you have a groupthink that we used to laugh at as "communist" when I was a kid.
Time for rural America to ditch what is a dysfunctional alcoholic model of Say Nothing to Get Along. Just Accept.
Take back free thought and expression. You have a lot to offer. Quit picking on the kids who have the brains to question because you will drive your best away. That is how towns as well as people die.
13
I cannot understand the mentality of not supporting these brave kids. There is a type of brainwashing going on here. You cannot look at world wide stats vs. violent gun deaths in the U.S. and not come to the realization that it IS guns. The ability to buy firearms meant for the military, the lack of laws to keep track firearms when they get stolen or are bought at gun shows, the inability to pass stricter laws for background checks, the easy access for just about anyone to obtain them, the Taihrt amendment and the unprecedented power of the gun lobby and the NRA.
I fear it will never end and that we will just succumb and get used to it, even as the trajectory of violent carnage increases. Our only hope is that these kids continue to have the courage to speak their truth. If not for them, for the sake of a time when they have their own children.
8
To those courageous kids: come to California. Here we live in a state with some of the strictest gun laws, and our kids go to school feeling safe. Our schools aren't prisons, and our people don't live in fear. If some nimrod pulls out an AR-15 in public, he goes to jail, as he should.
Guns are the problem, and unfortunately a large swath of Americans are under the spell of the NRA, an organization dedicated purely to selling more guns. We're free from that brainwashing out here, and life is far better because of it. Leave those losers and join us.
12
It’s plainly evident that “adults” do not care nor does society. Living in atomized bubbles of sameness across the political spectrum will ensure this continues.
3
The 17-year-old Texas murderer's gleeful killing was based solely on his belief he had a right to stalk and harass for months a female student who repeatedly told him to leave her alone. So he brought guns to school that day and hunted her down like prey in art class.
It is cart before the horse to claim that latest school shooting is predicated on guns, instead of on the continuing unhinged and unfettered antediluvian American male entitlement to sexually harass and kill any female they think they own.
5
@Mary - I agree that we need to address this disturbing phenomenon, of which there seems to be an uptick, in young men who won't take "no" for an answer, and who believe they have the right to stalk, harass, and otherwise abuse and terrorize the objects of their demented affection. But we also need to address the elephant in the room: the fact that some of these guys, as well as the other crazies out there, wouldn't be able to commit the specific type of violence that they do if they didn't have unfettered access to dangerous weapons. We need to have sensible gun laws in this country. We need to make it harder for violent people, for domestic abusers, for animal abusers, for stupid young men with axes to grind, for the profoundly mentally ill, and for criminals to access dangerous weapons and hurt people with them.
6
Mary -- I'm a 67-year-old-guy. I've seen a lot in life, raised a daughter ... and I'm sorry to say to you that you just aren't being realistic about humanity ... particularly male humanity.
It's a terrible sad thing that loser males often go on killing sprees. If you look at other cultures, even much earlier history before modern guns, it was common. The worst mass murder in Japan committed by one man (the Tsuyama massacre) was committed by what in today's parlance would be an "incel."
As a generality American males do not have as exaggerated views of male domination and rights as most other cultures in the world.
The problem that you might be able to do something about is the guns. Demanding the kumbaya to insure that there aren't any loser males ... isn't gonna happen.
1
There will be no easy reconciliation or agreement between rural gun owners and liberal left wingers who believe that all guns should be banned. It can't happen. I lived in a rural area where kids came to school during small game and deer season with rifles and shotguns clearly visible on the back of the pickup truck. Many high schools in rural PA were that way and many high schools even had a rifle team. On opening day of hunting school was closed! That was normal and acceptable. Walking into the fields behind the school to hunt grouse or pheasant after school was also normal. Everyone had guns or had access to them. Hunting and guns are a way of life. Handing down a special rifle or pistol from one generation to the next was a time honored tradition. I learned to shoot a rifle at age 8 and was a member of the high school rifle team as a top shooter.
Now I'm 70, still a gun owner, retired and doing some competitive shooting now and then. I have numerous rifles and pistols including a Colt M-4 semi-auto rifle, and 7 or so .22 pistols and 9mm too. I even have a Marlin 336 30-30 lever action. I've never had an accident or any incident since age 8.
What is troubling to me is why kids reach for guns to solve problems and why they have access. What is also troubling to me is liberals who want to label me and my friends and neighbors who shoot or hunt but are not gun nuts.
I believe in controlling the evil people and making sure they don't ever touch or come near a firearm.
43
Well, I am 71, grew up in Idaho, and went bird, rabbit, varmint and deer hunting with my Dad. It was great. My mom would take groups of cub scouts out to do target practice. Dad taught me the basics of safety, which was one of the main things the NRA was about in those days. But the NRA changed and is now a dark force. Once, near the end of dad's life, I was home visiting and heard him talking on the telephone. It was the NRA. They wanted to know if Dad would renew his membership. His reply: "No, I don't think so. You boys have gotten a little too radical for me."
Amen
Their absolutist position makes reasonable discussion and the passage of reasonable laws impossible.
291
You, a responsible gun owner, don't want to be called a "gun nut". How about you reciprocate by not calling the vast majority of us, people who want sensible gun laws and not an outright gun ban, "left wingers"?
94
Nobody is saying that all guns should be banned. We are advocating for common-sense laws - laws that DO prevent "the evil people" from obtaining firearms.
How do you identify a responsible gun owner from the rest? By running thorough background and mental health checks, and by requiring licenses, insurance, and registration, just like cars.
How do you prevent those that don't pass those checks from obtaining weapons? By requiring safe gun storage. There are dozens of countries all over the world where officials will come to your house and inspect your gun storage before you get a gun, so that (in the case of the Santa Fe shooter), a murderous relative can't access your legally owned guns. At the end of the day, if you are a responsible human being, you will get your guns.
But those that aren't responsible don't.
51
Living next door to Marshall County, my heart goes out to these kids. They are showing amazing courage when they speak out on gun control down here.
I would hope the kids from Parkland would reach out to them; these Marshall kids definitely need all the support they can get.
37
I would be wonderful if the NY Times had a piece: "For Urban/Urbane Students, Gum Rights Can Be A Lonely Cause."
It's always one side of the street.
5
Yes, I'm sure life is so hard for them, supporting killing machines. Go get your propaganda elsewhere.
5
They only write about trump country and trump supporters. People in the cities are apparently not important to the NYT and haven't been since the election.
1
Yes, they only have Fox, nearly all AM radio, right-leaning newspapers in a majority of cities, a host of right-wing blogs, gun magazines...how can they get the word out?
5
Having grown up in a small town, I know about some of the pressures these young people face, and I hope they keep fighting. They are tomorrow's leaders and they're picking their arguments and sticking to them. When I read about these marchers, I have to believe the future will be better.
32
You hate your life so much that the only way you feel emotionally secure is to possess a powerful weapon of destruction? You need a piece of cold steel in your hands to feel like a complete person? You are so overwhelmingly paranoid, anything the government tries to do on behalf of the vast majority of its citizens feels like a personal attack on your very survival? Living on a farm or in a small rural town is not an excuse to demand the right to own a rapid fire, high powered, killing machine. Why don’t you use your time, money and energy to build something of real value, instead of wasting it all on bullets and shooting range fees? The rest of us have no tolerance or understanding left for your comfort guns. Our kids are now all scared of dying and you are a big part of the reason why.
55
To take a stand and speak out on an issue that is so heated, at such a young age, is incredibly admirable. They are not to young to know any better. They are young adults who have used their intellect to form rational conclusions about what needs to be done to protect others from what has happened to them. This is the epitome of critical thinking. Breaking through an embedded mindset, one in which these young adults have LIVED their entire lives, shows advanced intellect on their part as well as an incredible capacity for empathy. March on Marshall High students!! You might not have your hometown backing you, but you have a nation full of people who do!! I will pass on your story of courage to my daughter because you are who I hope she emulates when she’s your age.
21
I applaud these students for trying to make a difference. For the others: you reap what you sow.
Research shows that when there are more guns, there are more gun related injuries and death. Be they accidental, deliberate, or self inflicted. This is at the individual, household, state, and country level.
We need to realize that a “good guy” with a gun, and an “armed populous” concepts don’t hold water. At the minimum we need to have laws at the federal level that make it harder to buy weapons, depending on the type of weapon, a persons age, prior criminal history, etc.
At the maximum we need to re-examine the 2nd amendment, specifically how it’s interpreted and whether this makes sense given the unimaginable gulf between firearms today and when the 2nd amendment was written.
14
We have a serious male violence problem. Guns are a symptom of that. Having easy access these tools that represent power means results that can’t be taken back and lower survival rate for victims. Just like any other seriously dangerous tool- they need to be much more significantly regulated. I know I'll be accused of being a man hater, but there are numbers to support that men by far commit most violent acts
I'm proud of these rural kids that stand up. I suspect they are having more of an impact than they realize on their opposing peers who succumb to peer pressure and bullying because they are too afraid not to go with the flow.
I'm in rural Texas and, I think this failure to act is a piece of the bigger pie to de-fund and eliminate public education- the one true equalizer in our nation. I think rural Texans are too caught up in their religion to see this. Privatization/charter schools taking tax dollars. Refusing to investigate civil rights complaints at schools. Failing to fund students/teachers. Out of date and poorly edited text books. A failure to teach real science and science-based sex education. Failing to help kids with mental illness. Not funding special education. A culture of violence and fear in our schools. My tax dollars should be funding a place for all of our nations kids to have an equal and safe access to education. Instead it’s funding toxic mostly male politicians who continue to push women and minorities back into Old Testament roles.
40
Bingo x 160 million, A. Harris.
And the world has a male violence problem x 3.8 billion.
This is the enormity of what all females and, indeed, all of humanity is up against. The numbers are not in humanity's favor. Just ask the other species whose numbers have been reduced to extinction for no reason than by violent male vanity and ego.
9
"They wrote speeches and op-ed essays calling for gun control."
You could easily substitute the following for gun control:
abortion rights
civil rights
reasonable immigration laws
climate control
These rational thinking students, using common sense and sound reasoning would face the same backlash in their community.
This is the modern-day version of the Civil War.
17
Those who preach about children and young people dying from gun violence or a car crash such as: "She's in a better place" or "God has a plan" are purveyors of a theology based on prescientific notions. In fact, dead children would be in a much better place if they were still alive, safe with their families and pursuing their dreams. Our society would be much the better for their gifts. Car crashes and gun deaths and injuries are not accidents, although they may be unintended. They are completely predictable and when we begin adopting regulations that govern their safe use and operation, we will be seeing far fewer needless deaths and injuries. It is that simple. These young people are right and their critics are wrong. Some of their critics will die earlier than otherwise necessary precisely because safety regulations are absent. We cannot eliminate all deaths and injuries related to guns, but we certainly can save many, many lives and prevent many more injuries by using science-based countermeasures. Gun violence is a public health issue and we must begin addressing it as such. Congratulations to these young people.
17
The people who call these kids names, are more immature than the students. Bravo to the kids, I hope they stand their ground and move out of that area as soon as it is feasible.
15
"“The reason (my son is) alive is because of a gun,” Mr. Thomason said.
--
If that is true, then it must also be true that the reason his son got a bloody hole in his hip is because of a gun.
44
Thank you, Larry. Although your logic would never penetrate this mans need to be right. No no---the reason his son has a bloody hip is because not enough janitors were sniper trained and armed.
As with the average Trump voter--admitting you are wrong is tantamount to saying, "I'm responsible for so much of this." It takes a brave man or woman to say that.
These young people are the brave ones in this town.
2
The time for debate is over. Now is the time to organize and vote with the same single-mindedness as the gun lobby. If we don’t, the carnage will continue unabated.
I have nothing further to say to them. I believe there are many more of us.
15
The Republican Party has for years defined what a "real american" is. It's goes back decades. But, it really got a foothold after 911. The "real americans" couldn't wait to go to war. Bush and Chaney were beating the war drums. The Republican Party loves a good war every once in a while, to show the world our "exceptionalism." We are 4% of the worlds population and we have 40% of the worlds guns. Are we safer yet? It's time republicans in rural areas of the U.S. wake up. The Republican Party only cars about your vote. God, guns, abortion and hating gays does not put food on your table nor does it make your paycheck larger. The Republican Party does not want to end abortion because it an automatic vote getter. It feeds the base of the party. Vote in November to drain the swamp everywhere in America.
14
America, the land of the free,
So long as you agree with me.
8
In the future, in rural America, after fire drills are conducted outside, the Principal with all students assembled will discharge a weapon, and at that discharge the students will run as if their live depended on it.
Children will be taught to recognize gunfire, and lives might be saved.
The slowest children will have to wear a ''Thanks for thoughts and prayers, but I'm dead" " t shirt for the rest of the day.
More than that we can't hope for from our owned state legislatures.
8
It is truly amazing how the gun lobbyists can persuade some voters to act against their own safety and interests. These voters certainly make a compelling argument that they should lose their right to vote when they are so dim-witted.
9
Many of the criticisms leveled against you kids are the same that have been used on active young people throughout history. They are as wrong about you as they have always been. You DO have the power to make the world a better place. For many people, anything different or new scares them, that's how you know you shouldn't be listening to their nay-saying. Dylan said it best.
Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.
159
Drawing the kids into the "discussion" is just a tactic of the liberal leadership to increase the size of their anti-gun army. The Parkland students had lots of grownup "help" and financial backing for their class project, like Debbie Wasserman Schultz and big Hollywood bucks from the likes of George Clooney, etc.
Huh, really? Teenagers have who been through a more violently terrifying and sad event than you certainly ever have been don't need to be 'drawn into discussion', they're rightfully scared and outraged!
And pro-gun advocates have no one? Ha, surely you jest, the NRA is gives $$$MILLIONS$$$ in "help" to their hand-picked puppet congressmen. Poor Clooney's donation is a drop in a very very large bucket. (Excuse my rudeness, but with comments like that I can't help but to wonder, what is the education ranking of Louisana?)
1
Jim Morrison said, "They got the guns, but we got the numbers." I suppose the irony of "anti-gun army" is lost upon such as Aristotle.
They cling to their medieval religion and violent guns for a brighter tomorrow.
Their guns must live...so their children can die.
Guns Over People 2018: Making Yesterday Great Again
76
See above. I rest my case.
1
There is nothing "medieval" about American fundamentalist evangelical Protestantism. It dates from the end of the nineteenth century and is the product of a fearful reaction to modernity.
The medieval church had plenty of problems and shortcomings, but it was not afraid of learning and debate.
The idea that someone who wants to kill people is going to find a way to kill people is just absurd. Sure, a person who is determined to kill people will probably find a way to do so, but it's so much easier to kill many more people with a gun than just about any other way.
Guns are basically instant gratification death machines. Once you have access, it becomes far too easy to do far too much damage. They enable impulsive acts that might otherwise not happen. If you look at suicides, for example, you'll find that women have higher rates of suicide but men have higher rates of "successful" suicides, mostly because men use guns at a much higher rate.
But at the end of the day, these rural folk are operating on folk psychology gleaned from the media and their peers that is completely out of line with how psychology actually works, along with an under-siege tribal mentality that makes them paranoid and, yes, delusional, resulting in an immovable opposition to any kind of gun regulation (or positive collective action).
Just the idea of someone trying to take guns away from them is like trying to take away a security blanket from an adult-sized toddler. Children of God indeed.
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he was God."
194
As a resident of Chicago, the scene of the most rampant gun violence in the world, I cannot in good conscience endorse the sale, and distribution of firearms, but the perpetrators of these high school massacres are motivated by more personal factors than "instant ego gratification". What was merely thought about in the past is today expressed, and acted upon. Urban, "gang violence" is no exception: somebody disses somebody on a media site, and the aggrieved party does a drive by. Indeed, this is tribal, or clan mentality, only today, these clans are more numerous, and electronically linked.
"The idea that someone who wants to kill people is going to find a way to kill people is just absurd. Sure, a person who is determined to kill people will probably find a way to do so,"
You and a couple of hundred other persons probably don't see the contradiction in your words.
First you say that someone who wants to kill will find a way is absurd.
Then you say that if their determined enough they'll find a way.
Which is it?
1
Too bad that the only adults in Marshall are a few of the kids.
297
It's a misconception that there are no intelligent people living in rural areas. Thank goodness.
13
Good God. The whole article is about young kids using their heads and sticking up for their beliefs. Not following the herd is a sign of intelligence and used to be highly prized in rural America. That attitude needs to make a come-back.
13
The genie is out of the bottle. Firearms are never going away.
A ban on firearms is only going to do the same as Prohibition did for alcohol. The day after a gun ban, 3D printers will be manufacturing firearms.
Gun owners, especially parents, that leave guns around should be chastised.
3
Also, gun owners should be regulated, educated and licensed. Guns should be registered to their owners, and owners should be liable for them. And for God's sake, no more high velocity, high capacity "semi-automatic" killing machines (AR-15) for the public.
3
"Gun owners, especially parents, that leave guns around" ... should be criminally liable.
Speaking of Parkland, I don't recall the Times or any other mainstream media outlet publishing a similar story about the PRO-Second Amendment students at that school (including one hero who used kevlar sheets to shield his classmates).
3
Then you weren't paying attention. Wapo had a whole article on the kid who met the trump and his cohorts and also met with some dems. He was all about the middle ground. But then he showed his true colors by mocking his fellow students on social media, as 2nd amendment worshippers tend to do. And there's a difference between respecting the 2nd amendment and worshiping it.
2
These people are just insane with their guns. They talk about guns as sporting and forget about these poor children before they are even cold. They are simply an annoyance to them. Maybe, we can guns out of some states like CA, Connecticut and Washington and send them all to Kentucky and Texas and see the result. These states want their children to go to school in a prison.
12
The double standards our culture has are embarrassingly glaring. For example, we have initiatives like Vision Zero that aim to reduce driving fatalities while at the same time we do absolutely nothing in the face of deadly shooting after deadly shooting after deadly shooting after deadly shooting after deadly shooting after deadly shooting after deadly shooting after deadly shooting after deadly shooting. Folks will say, this is b/c more people die in auto accidents than are shot, but the point is we try to save lives in one context while we look the other way in another. Brave as it may be to try and make political change in the middle of the country, these students will be fighting an uphill battle. They’ll also find out the hard way, as we all have, that in a Capitalist society, money and profit are more valuable than human life. That’s the truth. Good luck trying to convince the same ignorant people that voted for Donald Trump that gun control is the answer. These people will believe anything they’re told as long as it’s coming from a Republican and they have little capacity to think critically about the issues,; that’s why they hated Obama. In any case, I’m sure we’ll all chat more about the issue when the next mass shooting inevitably happens next month and then again the month after that.
18
"Almost no one agrees with us" That means you're onto something kids. You may not know it, but the whole world is in agreement with you and as soon as you can leave that environment you'll see how, truly, small your small town is.
112
I'm used to much of this conversation but the part that shocked me was the deacon who said "you are beginning to sound like a Democrat"--is that a sin?
81
In Kentucky it is.
9
And that is just one example among hundreds of thousands of tax exempt religious enterprises on parade all around the country.
13
To institutions whose power is derived from controlling people, thinking for oneself is definitely a sin.
3
These young adults from Benton Ky, Gillette Wy, and many other rural communities across the country are to be applauded, but more so supported by the those of us that live among and near them. They are speaking out and challenging the status quo in ways that are far more powerful than those in political power or those with political ambitions.
There are many of us that are firearm owners, hunters, sportsmen, etc. that support a constructive dialogue concerning responsible gun laws that will challenge and change our current gun culture/epidemic.
We must be more vocal, and vote our views more often. The latter is a huge challenge in rural areas, but we have to begin to make peoples lives safe again.
125
How is voting one's views a "huge challenge"? Voting is private, and one is under no compulsion to tell anyone how one has voted. You are alone in the voting booth with your beliefs, and if you won't vote them, then obviously you don't believe in them.
1
Brave kids, bravo! The American way includes freedom of speech, which they are exercising and their right to do so must be respected.
However, that sword cuts both ways, so those of us who agree with the kids must also allow those we disagree with to have the same right of freedom of speech.
Freedom of speech does not include the right to stifle, shout down or prevent from speaking, those who wish to express opinions different than our own.
All of us who support free speech, whatever our political or religious affiliations, should remember that important point.
6
Free speech is one thing, and of course there are many opinions about this issue. But the majority of the people who are opposing and belittling these brave kids, don't have facts to back up their opinions. Instead, the conclusions they've drawn are based on propaganda spewed by Republicans beholden to the NRA and their deep pockets! This is where "free" speech becomes dangerous, because someone always pays the price demanded by an angry nut armed with an AR-15.
4
Hang in there, kids. Leave and go to college or move to a city or state which values the lives if its residents and leave those towns and states behind. It's where they seem to want to stay-- behind.
57
These kids are the real heroes. Facing angry irrational adults and self-righteous friends is awful. They need to ask if anyone in their town supports the First Amendment or is it just a theory for them.
When I was young I went with a group helping the local priest of in a poor neighborhood leaflet a rich Catholic church that had set up some sort of gaming in the poor part of town and were draining resources for their own school. The leaflet was to inform. One middle aged guy stormed back out of the church and wadded up his leaflet and threw it in my face and made a lewd statement about where I could put it. I was so shocked and then he went back in to take communion and praise the Lord I guess. Anyway, I didnt respect his hypocrisy and learned a lot of adults were simple cowards who didnt know any more than I did and didnt deserve to be the experts if they were so afraid.
These kids in Kentucky deserve respect for standing up for themselves and the lives of kids of their generation when no one else will. It doesnt hurt the social glue of the town to have a few voices that disagree. That would be more American than social silencing to make for a harmony that completely disregards their concerns. Right now the actual leaders of the next generation are not politicians, they are, surprisingly, high schoolers.
227
20 years from now, as the rate of school shootings in America increases or holds steady, after burying hundreds or thousands more kids, after spending billions on fortification and armed guards instead of school supplies and teacher salaries, as the rest of the world continues to look on in horror ....
.... these rural conservative religious gun rights defenders will still be making the same pathetic arguments to defend insanely lax gun control laws.
24
“I don’t think the Second Amendment is the issue,” said Kevin Neal, Marshall County’s judge/executive. “If somebody gets it in their head they’re going to kill, they’re going to do it.”
First of all, the Second Amendment is not the issue. Easy access to guns is.
And second, school shooters might have it in their head to kill, but the gun is the key ingredient. Without a gun, they're not going to do it, and their fantasies stay in their heads.
39
Second Amendment, as interpreted, does provide easy access to guns. Only three countries on the entire planet recognize a broad citizen right to arm themselves, and the other two are Mexico and Honduras (IIRC).
5
This is a true Profile in Courage. Speaking out about the unpopular, facing down intimidation and riducule at such a tender age.
I want to say to these young people: You are not alone, even in our Commonwealth. Yes, we are here and working mightily to elect leaders with common sense. Follow the example of your cohorts in other states by registering to vote, and then do so, in every election. You're on the right side of history. It may take a long time, but just like other societal stains that we must work on constantly to eradicate (racism, sexism, intolerance of those unlike ourselves), we can rid ourselves of this cultural obsession with guns.
27
*ridicule - yikes! Should have used spellcheck!
How can any person, conservative or liberal, young or old, witness a human being shot by an assault weapon and think that that gun serves any purpose in our society other than mass murder?
What those kids experienced was traumatic. I'm horrified reading about the lack of empathy their peers and the adults are extending to them. At the very least, we should be able to recognize the pain someone has experienced and respect that their pain has shaped their own unique perspective.
I, personally, can respect and understand why someone would want to own a gun for a sport or even a handgun for self defense. But why on Earth would any civilian need a weapon specifically engineered to murder other humans in massive quantities? A weapon like that doesn't deserve a place in our society.
I thought humanity's ultimate goal was to end war, murder, violence, and suffering. How can we do that while accepting a tool for mass murder in our communities?
23
It's really sad that some think we should turn our schools in armed camps or secure prisons with one garded door and metal detectors so they can ware a side arm while shopping in Walmart.
32
"'The reason he’s alive is because of a gun,' Mr. Thomason said."
The reason he was almost killed is because of a gun. But Mr. Thomason and the gun-rights supporters of Kentucky and elsewhere just don't get that.
It's also important to note that the "freedom" gun supporters say they need guns to defend doesn't seem to extend to the 1st Amendment so much. The father taking out an AR-15 to intimidate a teenager is what makes so much of the pro-gun extremists so scary.
It will take a long time, but eventually America will start to catch up with the rest of the civilized world and pass strong gun safety laws, and our children will be able to go to school or the movies or the mall without fear of getting shot because of gun-loving white rural Americans.
90
I grew up in a town not unlike Benton. To the adults quoted in this article I only ask these questions:
"Did you grow up in such an America?"
"Why should our kids have to?"
"So we are going to do nothing?"
17
The NRA tells us that the more guns people have, the safer we are.
Every year, Americans buy a few million more guns.
Why do they buy them? Because they do NOT feel safe. And that is repeated every year. We have about 300 million guns. When will we have enough guns to feel safe? (Hint: NEVER.)
Einstein told us that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different outcome.
The evidence says that buying more guns does NOT make anyone, the gun owners or the people who do not own guns, feel safer.
And the NRA keeps on lying.
104
I'm curious which evidence you have been looking at, because the crime rates (and murder rates) in general have been steadily falling throughout the last 20 years - all the time during which American gun ownership has been increasing steadily.
1996 murder rate - 7.4 /100,000
2006 murder rate - 5.8 /100,000
2016 murder rate - 5.3 /100,000
Now who is lying?
3
I own 18 guns and not one of them is for self defense or personal security. I’m not afraid of anyone. I hunt and shoot competitively and often use one of my three AR15s for those activities. You speak as if you know why guns are owned, or if mere numbers of guns cause something. They don’t. You’re full of it.
But for the record, I’m in favor of much stricter gun laws, including putting ARs under the NFA.
2
Firearm homicide and suicide rates have held steady at around 10K/20K per year since the mid 90s, and have ticked upwards in the last few years.
Overall violent crime rates are down due to more complex mix of social and societal factors.
5
People who are unable to disagree with others except via belittling, denigration, attacking, gossiping, etc have very little in their arsenals to bring to a debate in the way of thoughtful analysis or introspection. In my view attackers tend to be those who can't legitimately support their views, so they fall back on tactics that don't change minds but hurt others.
Friendships based solely on holding the same beliefs are not true friends.
30
I agree, and this whole article was just a sad reflection of the points that you make here. I was both disgusted and saddened by the girl in this article who apparently wanted to fight the group that held a gun control rally. Aside from being a stupid, trashy idea - and just reinforcing the unflattering, untrue stereotype that rural America is a land populated by classless hicks - it shows a complete lack of critical thinking skills and willingness to listen to others who might disagree with you. Also, the answer to violence and those who oppose violence is not more violence. Get with the program, kid from Kentucky. You're obviously part of the problem, since you're not willing to try to be part of the solution.
15
"'If somebody gets it in their head they’re going to kill, they’re going to do it.'" To a certain extent I agree with this statement by Mr. Neal: if crazy people want to kill someone, they're going to find a way to do it. They're crazy. You cannot reason with these types of people.
But here's where I respectfully disagree with the former Marine: while crazy people are everywhere and will certainly not stop being crazy because we enact sensible gun laws, doesn't it stand to reason that we, as a nation, should make it just a tiny bit harder for them to get dangerous, destructive weapons that they can use to kill their fellow citizens en masse? They could cause harm in other tragic ways, but I bet it's easier to stop a lunatic with a knife than a lunatic with an AR-15. As for those who say that the solution to a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun, that hasn't worked out so well: in Parkland, the "good guy with a gun" hid in the parking lot while students were slaughtered, and in Santa Fe, Tex., the "good guy with a gun" got shot rushing to students' defense and is now in serious condition at a hospital. Unfortunately, his training and bravery didn't stop the shooter from killing 10 people.
I'm not worried about responsible gun owners and I've never been against them exercising their Second Amendment rights. But there needs to be a middle ground and we need them to help us get there, otherwise too many of our citizens will continue to die needlessly and violently.
50
Great courage
14
It seems they think common sense gun laws are extreem - makes you a “ liberal “ , less christian . But locking 82 doors in their schools and armed teachers and security guards is the answer.
13
I wonder how many fire regulations those 82 locked doors violate.
10
Very brave young people.
Beliefs are what defines a person and I have no doubt these teens will have a bright future.
188
This is sad, but entirely predictable.
By law everywhere, kids must be educated. Home-schooling is not an option for anything other than a very small fraction of parents, particularly at the high-school level.
Students and their parents have a presumptive right of safety at schools -- because attendance is mandatory.
The costs of all these murders is dismissed as "the price of freedom." If the dead and maimed are public necessity, then why won't these people help pay for it?
Or pay to attempt to stop it? There are over 26,000 high schools in the US. Adding one more safety officer at 100 k$/yr (salary + benefits) to each high school would cost 2.6 B$ per year.
The cold ugly numbers would say the latter isn't worth it -- if student lives were valued at 8 M$ each, then 2.6 B$ would "buy" 325 lives each year ... and there aren't anything like that many school killings each year. (Nor would the extra security stop all the killings.) So it would just be cheaper to pay for the carnage, rather than trying to stop it.
But none of the gun advocates seem to want to advance that "modest proposal" -- they're too cheap to even put up for that.
The gun rights argument appears to be that gun deaths must be free, so that guns are free.
11
Indeed. Homeowners here won't pass millages for schools that still use temporary buildings for their classrooms--those temporary buildings are more than 20 years old. They are permanent buildings.
What do you want to be they won't pass millages for more armed "safety officers" either?
3
This same mindset can be found in the abortion debate. For those who consider abortion to be murder, there is little suppport for methods that could decrease the likelihood of pregnancy. There almost no compromise to make birth control more accessible to everyone while there isn’t actual pushback on the idea of sex education. This leads me to the conclusion that support of unlimited gun ownership and “pro-life” views are far more emotional than they are well reasoned opinions. I’m not sure how we can overcome these personal opinions if folks very identities depend on clinging to them.
I feel sorry for the children of rural America.
The story of a young student in Gillette, Wyoming, who with 3 others makes up the entirety of the town’s gun control advocacy group, describes a similar experience of bullying and ostracization for daring to speak up about something that to the rest of the world is common sense.
58
I read a good amount of these stories, and I teach at a school as well where conversations about guns have been frequent. The more I see, the more I become convinced that so many of those who take the "arm teachers" or "wouldn't you want a person with a gun to come running to save you?" arguments take those positions not because they're convinced of any logical soundness to them, but because they value their conservative tribal membership more than anything else.
To buck the conservative talking points is more than a political difference in rural America: it is seen a social betrayal, a treason of the highest magnitude, tantamount to hating America. This cultish devotion to conservative dogma reflects a deep, visceral fright of the change of modernization creeping from the cities into the countryside. It is not based in logic, but in emotion, because that emotional attachment to some sort of identity - any identity left to grasp onto, with how these rural communities are rotting from poverty, drug abuse, and unemployment - is so incredibly powerful that the potential psychological pain of getting ostracized as "not a true conservative" or "not a real American" overrides even the horror of seeing children get massacred at school.
446
Could you explain to us how a shooter got into Parkland School with 2 (!!) guns, one of which was a shotgun which is impossible to conceal. Ask their school board if you are not sure.
6
Exactly: tribal power. And another good reason to end the Electoral College.
57
That was Santa Fe not Parkland. But whatever.
I teach at a school so l’ll explain it to you. These school things, they have doors. So people can get in and out to attend classes, or escape in case of fires. And even if you buy the ridiculous notion of putting cops and metal detectors at every one of these door thingies, the hypocritical psychopaths who populate much this country will never agree to the tax increases necessary to pay for what would essentially have to be another wing of the military. I mean, these people won’t even agree to tax increases for books.
So that’s how you walk into a school, with or without a gun. You use one of the doors.
I feel for these kids. I had just entered high school in the Columbine era and a shooting was a thought, but a passing one. Not today, when there are 200 school shootings before the year is halfway out.
79
First, I disagree with your figure that there have been 200 school shootings this year. Maybe you could site some article?
Second, long before Columbine, school shootings were common. Google "U.S. school shootings" and you will see that we have had school shootings since 1840. Some of the shootings have been by armed teachers killing students.
What has changed is the reporting. When I was growing up, there was no internet and the news only came on 3 times a day. And during my childhood, Vietnam dominated the news so we did not focus on school shootings much except the Kent State Massacre.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_Sta...
I am beyond "feeling" for these kids; I am outraged that the adults who have power in this country are afraid of the NRA and the gun manufacturers' lobbies whose sole reason for selling military style weaponry is profit. The economy of the U.S. is based on consumerism; that does not mean that all things should be for sale. We don't sell tanks, artillery, and other military hardware to civilians; why are we selling military style combat weapons to civilians? Other Western democracies do not sell military weapons and hardware to civilians; and, they don't have mass shootings of their kids in schools. The recent mass murder of kids in Switzerland was done by a young man who bought his weapon on line from a U.S. gun manufacturer, no background check. The young man was known to be unstable and troubled.
2
And the GOP says they don't practice identity politics.
87
Wonderful students. As they grow older they will be very proud of themselves in standing up for what they believe was right even against their own parents.
99
My heart breaks for these kids, who are standing strong in a backwards place. Go off to college, kids. Meet some people with other viewpoints. The world is so wide and some people are so small. You don’t have to reflect the values of a place that you grew up in due to the luck of the draw. There are others out here who support you.
230
College is too expensive. Nice thought though.
1
School shootings will stop when the liberal media stops sensationalizing these terrible crimes, and making them notorious.
The Parkland, FL shooter even stated he wanted "to become a professional school shooter". Where did he get that idea? From our national media that splashed these crimes across headlines from coast to coast in an attempt to use them for political advantage.
The liberal media has the blood of school children on it's hands - ever since Columbine - and is clearly culpable in the rash of school shootings we've seen in recent years.
1
And here I was thinking it was because kids are on Ritalin.
And I guess murders happen because the media reports it.
We should go back to the old days when rapes and child molesters actions were rarely brought up in he media so we're rarer.
Oh wait. They weren't rarer, they just weren't reported.
Even Fox reported on them
Nice try.
Keep clinging to that gun mentality. It makes you feel safe. I guess.
35
Dunblane school shooting in Scotland was widely publicized by both domestic and foreign media. Then the British public demanded action and the British government acted. Almost all handguns were banned. No school shootings in the following decades. No market for Kevlar backpacks, no active shooter drills, no calls for armed security patrols, no generation of kids growing up in fear of being shot at school, no calls to fortify schools like they were jails or army bases. No mass burials or grieving parents.
What do you think the outcome would have been if Brits had blamed Satan, or lack of school prayer, or liberal media, or violent video games, or Ritalin, or mental health, and passed laws loosening gun control laws, Stand Your Ground, conceal or open carry? My guess is they would now be experiencing more school shootings, not fewer to none.
46
Aside from ignoring facts, you raise some good points.
A free press is one of the absolute necessities of democracy. That is why it is necessary to support good journalism that does not sensationalize crimes.
Conversely you should support that the NRA and Fox are tiny groups in proportion to how many Americans do not belong to their tribes, and who have definitely leveraged the conservative media for political advantage. And yes, they are culpable.
3
It is always shocking to see how artfully the gun "rights' supporters evade the obvious to support their positions.
Most gun control advocates do not wish for a ban on sporting gear or guns used for competitive target shooting. They mostly feel that the notion of a handgun as "protection" is oxymoronic. They cannot comprehend how an AR15 or similar could be used for legitimate purposes (and I feel that if used for hunting, it's purpose would be to mow down trees between the hunter and the deer). They, or at least I, see AR15 and most handgun ownership as tightly coupled to the notion of bravado and "manliness," that is, foolishness.
But Oliver North did say that we are a violent society, and I give him credit for that. We are, and the head-in-the ground approach to gun ownership common to rural America and to the NRA which promotes violent attitudes and male brutishness, is a major contributor.
I am with the young people who stand up! You go, guys and gals. Someday you will overcome.
15
“I don’t think the Second Amendment is the issue,” said Kevin Neal, Marshall County’s judge/executive. “If somebody gets it in their head they’re going to kill, they’re going to do it.”
If this is so, why do Americans have such a monopoly on shooting people? Are we "special"?
Shannon Watts: “American teens watch the same movies and play the same video games as their peers in other high income countries. What’s different? They have easy access to arsenals and ammo.”
30
What the U.S. has had among 1st world nations since the 1960s is a monopoly on violent males. And that has broadened to include the 2nd and 3rd world nations.
3
Shall we try an experiment? One school shall volunteer to arm every individual - student, teacher, janitor, you name it. Take firearms training and wear your sidearm at all times. Let's really commit to it and see how that works out. Any volunteers?
18
Be careful what u wish for!!! I think that’s the exact goal of some people.
To those students, I understand how hard it is to speak the truth when others attack you for doing so. That makes you brave, like a prophet. Remember that Jesus was murdered, MLK was murdered, the list goes on. God loves your compassion. And so does most of the world. You are bringing light to your community and I believe that time and trust are on your side. You will look back on this proudly, regardless of whether you stay there or not. Moth thing wrong with loving your community even if you sometimes disagree. That’s just life. You’ve passed the test of thinking for yourselves early.
God bless you from New Jersey.
4
The integrity of our nation depends on young people being able to speak their truth. There are different ways of approaching the American school killing epidemic. All voices need to be heard and on the table. That the students who advocate for gun control are being ostracized, not just by fellow students but by a church deacon, is indicative of a toxic environment.
19
"Republican leaders expressed no desire to pass gun restrictions. Many residents and students agreed with them, saying that gun control would not stop the bloodshed at America’s schools."
We're at a point where school children are murdered by gun violence and people in the community where it happened think that is an acceptable tradeoff for their so-called "gun rights."
If you don't agree with people like this there's only one thing to do and that's to outvote them if you can. Because it's clear that nothing will change their thinking on this issue.
23
"If she was being attacked, wouldn’t she want someone with an AR-15 to come help?"
Absolutely not! AR-15s are not designed for precisely targeting one attacker. They are designed to mow down the maximum amount of people. While manufacturers have increased the weapon's accuracy over the years, and you can buy accoutrements that will help, it's still not really that accurate in the hands of your average shooter. It would be incredibly dangerous for someone to fire it into a crowd trying to hit a single assailant. Everyone would be better off if the "helper" were firing a rifle (of course a cheap rifle can be inaccurate, but a cheap AR can be really inaccurate, and that's if it doesn't jam). Also, the AR is incredibly more destructive (the bullet is traveling almost three times faster than it would with a standard handgun) so not only would you do more damage if you hit the wrong person, but it's more likely that if you hit the right person that the bullet would go through them, making it possible to hit someone else. Someone showing up with an AR to "help" would likely prove a bigger danger than a benefit.
41
Yeah, I’m not a gun owner but let me get this straight. This guy in the article is implying that if his daughter were being attacked by an assailant at close quarters he’d want someone to start shooting at them with an AR-15?
Can we all let that sink in for a second? Is this indicative of the critical thinking ability and gun knowledge of the typical AR-15 owner?
Brilliant, really. America—land of the free, home of the stupid and insane.
10
It's amazing the amount of disinformation in this post. It boggles the mind that people who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about feel free to spout off with authority.
1) AR-15s are highly precise. It's very much easier to hit a target at distance of more than a few feet with an AR-15 than with a handgun. Part of it is due to inherent accuracy of AR-15 system - which is one reason it's widely used for hunting - and partly simply because rifles are more accurate than handguns in general.
2) AR-15s are not "designed to mow down maximum amount of people". If it were so, they would be machine guns - not semi automatic rifles.
3) An AR-15 _IS_ a rifle. I'm not sure what distinction you're trying to draw comparing it to a "rifle" but there isn't one.
4) AR-15 bullet is generally more destructive to tissue than a handgun bullet (true), but a handgun bullet is more likely to penetrate multiple walls. AR-15 bullets destabilize quite quickly in anything but air, and therefore it's less likely to just keep going.
5) In case you are wondering why should you believe me versus the original poster, consider why practically all police departments use AR-15s on their SWAT teams. Is it because they want to "mow down maximum amount of people"? Or because they want their "imprecise" bullets to shoot through multiple people before them "jam"? Logic suggests that this should not be the case.
4
Well, my comment still stands. Let's have you wrestle with an attacker while someone tries to shoot him with an AR-15.
Because that's what the father referenced by the poster said in the article...about his DAUGHTER.
Personally, I'd rather someone try to pull that attacker off me. But hey, what do I know?
Wish I could speak with these brave young people in Benton, Kentucky - I would say - how proud of them I am of them.
Growing up in Kentucky, a land I love - but - know -how scary it can be to speak up - speak out - stand up for what you believe when everyone - including members of your family, your friends, your classmates and literally most everyone around you - quote Bible verses as easy as breathing then say something hateful in the next breathe - hypocrisy -
My wish is these young people step out of Kentucky and venture to places and people who have a wider view of life - where they can be free to truly be themselves -
In the meantime - my wish is for them to stand strong with what they know is right and wrong - guns need to be regulated - so, that people of all ages can live safe, healthy and to old age.
Know I am standing with all of you - wish I could come to Benton to meet an shake all of your hands - Thank you for your courage - keep speaking truth to power.
267
The Washington Post published a similar article a few days ago, about young people in conservative Gillette, Wyoming who faced a backlash for expressing views about guns that ran contrary to the rural ethos.
I applaud these youngsters. While they may suffer now for daring to challenge deeply-held culturally conservative tenets of rural life, my prediction is that they'll get themselves a good education that will enable them to leave their rural environs for greener urban pastures, where they will likely find both personal and professional happiness and success amongst a more like-minded and progressive population.
But for now, surely there are some adults, albeit a minority, in these communities who agree with these teens. I wish such adults would rise to provide support to these young people.
67
That was an eye-opening article, mostly because the "adults" in town feel free to constantly belittle and bully these kids verbally, sometimes their own kids. Incredibly hateful, to kids. In their own town. It's disturbing.
8
The electorate must demand real and significant gun law reform and must insist that any person running for political office on any level must stand first and foremost upon that platform. The media has a role to play in keeping the public focused on that goal and in moving public opinion toward that direction. The electorate must not be distracted by the powerful machinations of the powerful influences who feel otherwise. This is the only way for us to effect change and I think if we accomplish this achievable goal many other progressive issues will follow.
15
In rural Ohio, the vast majority of people no longer hunt, but they support the NRA at the polls.
It is much like how they say they are Christians, but never go to church.
163
In California, vast majorities of people think they understand what Constitution is about,but think that Second Amendment is about guaranteeing right to hunt.
2
Mr. Thomason thinks his son was only wounded because he immediately started running, and that he was saved because of a gun?! If the bullet had him in a different place, his son would be dead. I’m forever mystified by how people like this see guns in such magical, mystical terms. And how they seem to value them over their own children. Bravo to the brave teenage dissenters who have seen through this truly insane, death cult ideology.
283
Brave kids, bravo! The American way includes freedom of speech, which they are exercising and their right to do so must be respected.
However, that sword cuts both ways, so those of us who agree with the kids must also allow those we disagree with to have the same right of freedom of speech.
Freedom of speech does not include the right to stifle, shout down or prevent from speaking, those who wish to express opinions different than our own.
All of us who support free speech, whatever our political or religious affiliations, should remember that important point.
4
These are the real patriots.
113
Brave kids, hold true to your beliefs.
83