He can claim anything, even the right to pardon himself as we have heard. You can bet on one thing – however this turns out, Trump will claim no responsibility if the meeting turns sour or does not occur.
8
The less the President is involved in the process, the better. I never thought I would hear that being said of the US President, even more so as the official end to the Korean War and the winding down of hostilities in the Korean Peninsula could've been a landmark deal, something as significant as the killing of Osama bin Laden or our markedly improved relations with Vietnam.
We have seen North Korea pull out the rug from under us many times, no doubt, but what's the point of doing a tit-for-tat? How would that grant us the moral high ground?
1
It’s easy to predict a likely presidential behavior. Delivering on N Korea denuclearization is parallel to his tax returns. Early promises and chest puffing, delays caused by externalities, statements of lack of importance, deriding critics, waiting for it to pass the news cycles.
7
What will be the lesson out of all this is Kim will make some limited concessions similar to those in past negotiations, Trump will stand up and raise his hands and scream "I did this". And he will stomp his feet and demand the Nobel peace prize. And he will get the prize like the bully in school who gets the "most popular student" prize in school because his mother makes cookies every week for the class. The other take away from this is Moon will have egg all over his face, like Macron did, because all the kissing up to Trump is exactly what Trump wants, but it doesn't have any impact on getting him to do what you want him to do.
3
"Can Trump Still Claim Victory if Kim Jong-un Keeps His Nuclear Arms?"
No. Does that really need to be said? Have we finally been reduced to this level of thundering idiocy? Shall we try a historical test of sorts and see if that might help this populace held in thrall to the politics of magic wands, unicorns, and lies figure out why no part of that statement should be allowed to stand unchallenged?
Could Lincoln still have claimed victory if the country had actually split in two and became separate nations?
Could FDR still have claimed there was a New Deal if there wasn't actually one?
Could Kennedy have credibly claimed we had put a man on the moon if we didn't?
Could Nixon have just pretended to go to China for the helluva it?
I worry about a nation that has been reduced to this level of irrationality. And I am being polite. What ever happened to critical thinking skills? Objectivity? Truth? Consequences? Accountability? It's exercises in magical thinking like the one embodied in this lede that are contributing to the decline and fall of this nation.
We have a thundering, blundering fool for a leader; that does not mean we all have to fall in line and follow him down the rabbit hole. Because if we start normalizing complete non-starters like claiming "victory" for something that does not happen, this is not far behind:
“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.” --George Orwell, 1984
9
Whoever wrote that headline either (a) hasn’t been paying attention or (b) has an extremely dry sense of humor. Let’s always keep in mind the man has adequately proved himself to be a pathological liar.
3
There will be much to disappoint in this summit between two spoiled rotten brats. There are many who never want this meeting to take place at all. Kim is grandstanding. Moon is the loser along with American/ South Korean relationship. China is calling the tune and on the juke box is a song that sings about the special relationship between China and its favored pit bull. China sweeps the series. Xi comes out ahead one more time.
2
Trump is an idiot. It is all talk and no substance. That is the way of his life and business. It is interesting to think that the way in which he runs his business may not be that different from how others run theirs. Had he not become president his business would not be under so much scrutiny and would not have exposed the true meaning on business—to separate people from their money.
3
Emperor Donald would claim "Great Victory "and the Nobel Prize even if the DPRK nuked California...
4
Unlike Obama, Trump has to do something to earn the Noble Peace Prize.
first, there must be never a war. shut Bolton up whenver he alludes to such kind of that.
second, focus on intercontinental ballistic missiles first. I guess the missiles are far bigger threats to the American security than nuclear material itself. so make a firm negotiation goal of how to dismantle them in the first place.
third, let IAEA inspect the North's nuclear material and uranium enrichment. they would report details about it. then, let's start next negotiations of how to destory or contain.
reward? perhaps it is the wisest to have Mr. Kim say in his own mouth. I find only speculations around the US and South : a rollback of US troops, halt to US-South drills .. etc. we never ask Kim directly. but that may be the best for getting rid of his ambiguous behaviour.
1
First he gives up his principal card, a personal meeting , then he realises that the issues are complicated and may backfire. Then he starts backpedalling, blaming others while seeing his Nobel float past his eyes. Another thing botched.Let move on....Now, about that wall....
4
Trump is one of the few people who consistently claims victory and victimization at the same time. He whines endlessly that his many enemies are always doing him in, yet, at the same time he brags shamelessly that he is always victorious. His enemies are all the 'elitists' (i.e. people like him born with a silver spoon). But he says he only wants multi-millionaires in his cabinet. He reverses his decisions almost hourly ... yet the world continues to wait breathlessly on every utterance he makes.
6
Here's my take from all this:
NUCLEAR MISSILES...ARE GOLD. And if they can be managed right....COULD back a national currency.
It's a shame, that no one has caught on to this, because of the fear of the "widescale planetary destruction" they carry with them. And maybe if Hillary WAS President...and backing this idea...then the "Politically Correct" Left would be supporting this.....But She isn't, and they don't.....It's basically an open secret that Our Military, and all that comes with it, is the Gold and Silver that backs our Debt-Based Dollars...I wonder what path we would have taken, if IKE's military and financial advisers were to have let him expound on his "idea balloon" back in 1953? But maybe in your long thinking, It would only have been to get the Soviets to do "that" first...and then watch them crumble, while
proto-ModernMoneyMechanics would save the day?
Feh!
For me, it’s never been about the nukes. It’s always been about the concentration camps. If Trump can get those closed, it would be even bigger than denuclearizing North Korea.
Under the best scenario, which Trump inadvertently helped create, Kim was going to de nuke for Trump and rearm after Trump left or as he was a lame duck. Under this scenario, the camps would still exist, causing misery for millions and keeping Kim in power.
The chances of Kim ever using nukes are slim and none. But gaining freedom for millions of North Korea was really the challenge.
So denuding Kim of nuclear weapons he is never going to use is pointless. Freeing millions of North Koreans would be a generation changer.
#CLOSETHECAMPS
Trump will claim victory no matter what.
3
Two things we know, Trump will always claim victory, and Trump is useless.
4
Kim hooked Trump. Trump’s predecessors declared no denuclearization then no face to face with the President. Trump however will “win” at all costs - loss of face and loss of the US upper hand, From tough words to rolling over. What does China have on Trump to pull his strings. Mr. Deal Maker is emasculated!
2
"Can Trump Still Claim Victory if Kim Keeps His Nuclear Arms?" Of course, when u r irrational like Trump, facts don't matter. And the same rule applies to Trump supporters. All that matters is perception and Donnie has 'em hoodwinked.
Trump represents an enormous failure of American democracy. We know he's unfit but are unable to get rid of him. We tolerate an ever increasing instability in world peace, a worsening environment of the entire planet, public education being trashed at the hands of an extremist, medical coverage denied, allies severed and too much more to add to this comment.
No corporate board of directors would allow such incompetence and repeated failure but our system of gov leaves no recourse other than impeachment and the 25th amendment which an equally defective congress refuses to act upon.
We are the Titanic rushing towards our demise, standing helplessly on the deck. Our hopes hang on a special prosecutor who could be fired by the guilty party at any moment.
1
Trump always claims victory. 'The greatest triumph ever.'
Can Trump claim victory? No, but he most assuredly will.
3
“Signing a peace treaty that triggers a reduction of U.S. forces on the peninsula without getting anything in return from the North on nuclear or even conventional artillery aimed at Seoul or missiles aimed at Tokyo” would be a “disastrous success,” Mr. Klingner said.
Very good point, indeed. Mr. T and his base don’t care whether or not it is a disaster for Far Eastern countries as long as Mr. T appears to be Nobel Peace Prize-worthy along with the Rocketman. He can hard press Japan and Korea to swallow trade deals at the same time.
It helps to keep his and Republicans’ popularity among the big part of American voters who voted him into the presidency.
After two years he may go back to his real estate business leaving the US and its allies to deal with disasters.
2
It is a victory for those living in the Far East if Trump claims victory. I hope he does and forgets everything about Kim and the North while he is in office to leave the problem to his successor.
Now there might be an angle. No one has to give up anything for now.
Sign a declaration the Korean Conflict is over.
A victory in and of itself, then move on from there.
Where is the common sense in this whole thing? Why pull out of the Iran Deal Days before you are meeting with Kim to make a deal with him? Trump could have pulled out of the Iranian deal after meeting with Kim. If Kim does make a deal with Trump now won't he look like a Rube at home? Making a deal with a country that has reneged on deals made with its friends and hanged dictators it has opposed is not going to win Kim friends at home. John Bolton telling the world we want to copy the deal we made with late dictator of Libya was not rocket science.
3
Technology is spreading around the world which means that others will eventually have nuclear capacity or worse.
Advanced weapons systems will mean added protection for the countries with this advanced military capability.
U.S.A. was the first with "Advanced Military Capability"
Trump, Bolton, Pompeo and company inform others that
"All options are on the table" if you don't do as we say.
Other countries don't like that idea, so ,like North Korea, they will be building their own "advanced nuclear capability" just in case John Bolton brings out his "Libya Model" or "Hiroshima
Plan" as one of his options.
The world will see to it that Bolton,Pompeo,Pence and Trump will not be the only crew sitting at the table with their own "options"
Stop threatening "options" and "models".
Let's get a different crew in there. Peace is the only "option"
Patience/cooperation is the only "model"
M'W. Endres
3
North Korea is about the size of Mississippi. Its gdp is around 125th in the world—less than iceland. A real life assessment of their Nuclear capacity is that is is very very primitive. What are we so exercised about? Does an Elephant worry about every fly that lands on it?
Methinks it is in the DNA of the Americans that we must have something to freak about and if nothing real is on the horizon, we will grab whatever is at hand.
5
Their very 'primitive' nuclear missiles are pointed at Seoul which is about 40km from the DMZ, along with a few thousand artillery pieces which are capable of reaching the south's capital. So i suppose you dont really need to be worried directly, unless you live in South Korea, or maybe the whole of Asia, maybe then you might think a little differently.
I doubt he will declare it a success but he will definitely blame Obama, Hillary and the dreaded DEMs...But, without question, he will tweet that he still deserves the Nobel Piece Prize.
I know there is a word misspelled above. I am only stating what I believe he will tweet.
3
it's simple: Trump visiting Kim is a victory in itself. Results are for losers.
2
Trump is America's Caligula. He can claim anything it pleases him to claim.
4
President Trump will claim whatever he wants on any given day it is up to the people to work out the difference between fact and fiction.
4
Unfortunately the wrong group of characters at the wrong time to conclude a deal with North Korea. Not a sliver of nuance, lateral thinking or high-order strategy among the lot of them. This opportunity will come and go like so many other opportunities under this collection of ham-fisted amateurs.
4
If Kim wiped Hawaii off the map, Trump would find a way to take credit.
4
Of course he can claim victory. Why not? Nothing else in his administration is based on reality. Why should he start now?
4
NO Trump can't declare Victory if Kim Jong-un Keeps Nuclear weapons. Especially after he says that Kim must get rid of all his nuclear capabilities. All Trump has shown is that he has a big mouth and does 180 degree on everything he says.
6
Trump can “claim” anything he wants! That’s not news!
3
I think we can all agree that the Non-Proliferation Treaty is good for the world.
So how realistic is it for the PRC to offer N.K. a nuclear umbrella and sign a treaty to step in if the N.K. is attacked by Japan or the US?
Would the N.K. relinquish its nuclear bombs then?
If the meeting takes place, regardless of its result, Trump will claim triumph because that's what he does.
He’s never dismantling what he has.
He is probably building a submarine which Joe Biden mentioned they were planning and is a huge world threat. We can’t say “we never saw it coming”. Pompeo? CIA? Pentagon?
It can only be a respect borders, no hostile acts, free some trade and lift sanctions agreement. A lot of devil in the details. Human rights? Nope? Open border in any way with the South? Nope. They’d all defect. Many will try anyway with sports teams etc.
NO. Next question.
If Trump signs a sham agreement, Bolton should resign and call for Trump's impeachment. That might even turn the trick for Republicans.
1
The man that actually DID that sort of thing left the White House a couple of years back. Ever heard of the Iran deal? The one signed by no one in Iran ever?
1
If he fails to win a Nobel Peace Prize I would anticipate a short brutal surprise attack on Norway!!
5
No. He can’t.
1
Kim could bomb Akron and Trump would still declare victory.
6
The predictable way Trump's brain works, he would claim victory and ask for the Nobel Peace Prize even if he comes away from the meeting mistakenly agreeing to sell Kim weapons of mass destruction - and call it fake news if anyone criticized him. With Trump's war on reality, that's just the way it is these days.
6
Trump is in WAY over his head. The only upside for him is that his daily flailing keeps his name in the headlines.
7
NO! How is that a victory letting him keep his nukes? We will be cancelling sanctions, legitimizing a dictator, opening up trade with NK and making him a fabulously wealthy criminal. It's a victory for Kim, and a massive lose for the rest of the world. Never heard of anything so stupid.
5
Doesn't matter if he "wins" or "loses". He'll claim victory either way. I think we all have a vested interest in his success and it would be foolish to root for his failure. The concerning thing to me is that he doesn't have a fully staffed state department and I don't know to what extent he would listen to anyone.
4
The issue is not who gets or doesn't get to claim victory. The issue is what is the nature of any agreement reached. If North and South Korea normalize relations and further nuclear and ballistic missile testing are suspended that is good but ultimately only complete denuclearization of the entire peninsula timed to coincide (not precede or follow) with economic development of the North can be deemed a complete success. It would be foolhardy for North Korea to destroy all nuclear weapons up front for the promise of security and aid and it would be foolhardy for us to deliver aid and suspend sanctions for the promise of denuclearization. Both sides know this. Now let's see if diplomacy can accomplish all of this.
Donald “Neville Chamberlain” Trump if the terms discussed in the article materializes. Obama’s Iran deal will be 10 times tougher then the so-called deal with Kim. Lastly, Bolton will have to resign or he will be considered the biggest fraud ever to work in a White House.
2
Trump will claim victory if he can get Kim to buy some of America's old warheads, which are being decommissioned as the US modernizes its arsenal. He will say, see how I outsmarted him, he's buying a bunch of old nukes. Our new ones are much better.
2
Brilliant!!!!!
Since when has there been even a tenuous connection between what Trump claims and facts or reality?
He'll claim whatever he feels like claiming, and will not be held to account by anyone who matters.
4
"Yet even that could compromise the security of American allies if a deal were signed without negotiating a drawdown of" Irans "conventional weapons, particularly the thousands of artillery pieces it" and its proxies "has pointed at" Israel.....
1
Kim is as likely to surrender its nukes as Israel is. Kim only has to make enough concessions to China to gain relief from the most onerous sanctions, something China is likely to do, especially so in view of Trumps impotent trade war threats. So yes, Trump will claim victory while Kim gets everything he wants. The biggest loser will be the nuclear weapon non proliferation act, as trump will effectively legalize NK’satomic arsenal and open the door to Japan and Taiwan seeking their own home grown nuclear insurance, since Trump’s America is proving to be an unreliable and ineffective ally.
5
The issue isn't "can he?" Because, he will.
1
The North Koreans are playing Trump like a guitar. What's different about any previous negotiations except Trump has given Kim a huge boost on the world stage and make the US look like idiots?
4
Trump can and will claim victory. That doesn't make it so.
1
Of course he will claim victory no matter what happens. He had already ordered Commemorative Coins with his face on them to celebrate the greatest victory since WWII.
This whole charade is ridiculous. No leader would ever accept the word of Trump. Kim would be wise to lay low for two more years until Trump goes into history and we have a real President once again
6
make no mistake that whatever happens, and i mean whatever happens including hamsters eating cheese sandwiches while riding skateboards, it will be the greatest. possibly the best ever deal that has ever been made, better than anything that Obama did, and there was no collusion as-well
7
Trump will "claim victory" no matter WHAT happens or even if no meetings take place!
We all know that!
And that's the Orwellian essence of Trump's mentality and "message"!
7
He can, and will, because his base will believe ANYTHING he says.
6
Trump always claims victory because he's an irrepressible liar.
7
If North Korea keeps its nuclear weapons and Trump agrees to the deal, how will he explain that a deal that allows one adversary to retain weapons of mass destruction indefinitely is better than another that prevented an adversary from gaining any until at least 2031?
4
Gave your lead-in pic the usual sideways glance...
Says Trump is "KOOL" - right there on Korean TV...
Advantage Trump, even before the first round...
Also the most flattering lead-in pic you've had of him in - like - ever...
Probably just their propaganda machine working overtime...
Or - one of the OLED TV makers showing that their advanced display technology even makes Trump look good...
North Korea could bomb Mar-a-Largo and Trump would "hereby" claim credit for reducing their stockpile accordingly.
8
Trump got 3 hostages out - that counts as a win!
If you ignore the fact that he caused two of the “hostages” to be taken and has had fewer released than any recent prior president.
2
Trump will claim victory if the US agrees to denuclearize before NKorea.
We know that Trump is a liar and a braggart. What he claims is absolutely not important.
The real question is what should a good deal with N.Korea contain.
Once again, the NYTimes distills an issue into a ridiculous question about an infantile President.
He can claim anything he wants, and 40% of the country will believe him.
3
What sort of question is this? Can Trump still claim victory? Of course!! Not only will he claim victory, but also he'll blame Obama somehow.
3
The irony of Trump backing out of the Iran nuclear deal in order to make a worse deal w/ North Korea would be hilarious if it weren’t so geopolitically incompetent towards our nation’s interests.
6
If North Korea denuclearizes, which I doubt they will, it will be because it serves THEIR interests, and will have nothing to do with Trump. He is a prop in a play, he isn’t the author.
6
Absolutely a totally blown deal if NK keeps any nukes, because that's the bar that trump himself set. It will be another bankruptcy for him.
6
Trump will pretend his dealings with N Korea are a success no matter how it turns out. He has never admitted a mistake, why start now?
4
Since none of his bogus, self-promoting claims is rooted in reality, he could claim anything he wants to - and has. He just won't be believed, even if the summit produces results.
2
"...Kim keeping his nuclear weapons" raises the very technical question(s) as to what "keeping" means wrt nuclear weapons in general and specifically to North Korea's nuclear weapons infrastructure. Certainly the knowledge to develop nuclear weapons to the degree that North Korea has demonstrated cannot be erased. Can't expect some kind of "brainwashing" of NK nuclear scientists.
But removing fissile material in whatever form that it exists would be meaningful as would dismantling facilities used to produce fissile material.
1
Not only can he, you know the rest. And that thing that looks like a old golf trophy, that is the Nobel Prize.
1
SDT... Donald Trump receiving a Nobel Prize is a joke... but if his numerous depositions are televised he might be able to finally win that Emmy for best reality television show that he has coveted so much.
2
Who even listens to Trump's claims anymore? Everyday it's some other lie. What he says is as predictable as it is irrelevant. JFC.
3
Very simple answer, NO!
1
Any deal that allowing Rocket Man to keep his rockets will be an absolute disgrace, without a doubt the worst deal ever in all human history dating back to the origin of the universe, possibly even before that to the beginning of time itself.
To keep America safe the next POTUS will be forced to unilaterally withdraw from President "Weak Tiny Hands" Trump's terrible, disgraceful deal, then launch hellfire and fury wiping dangerous North Korea and ungrateful South Korea off the face of earth.
1
And if Iran rev's its nuclear weapons program back up when the nuclear deal's sunset clause goes into effect ten years from now, can Obama still claim victory?
We’ll never know, will we?
2
Kim will not give up his nukes, but knowing Trump he'll take credit anyway.
3
Really ! Have you been paying attention? Trump will ,say anything, claim everything, deny all and do it with conviction . I couldn't get past the absurdity of the articles heading of whether or not Trump can claim victory . Again , Really !?
3
Trump claimed that his bankruptcies were major victories. Get the picture?
6
Can Trump Still Claim Victory if Kim Jong-un Keeps His Nuclear Arms?
If the US keeps its nuclear weapons it is a defeat for the world.
2
He already rented a claque to shout "Nobel...Nobel...Nobel" at his rallies, and he doesn't like to spend money for nothing.
Can Trump Still Claim Victory if Kim Jong-un Keeps His Nuclear Arms?
Seriously?
It doesn't matter what happens. Of course Trump will claim victory and his followers will shout Nobel. And they will go on believing all is well. As long as he and they do not understand that he is lying once again, all will be well and he will make America Great Again.
4
Trump - will claim victory regardless. He may even believe it. That said, if NK at least stops launching rockets and detonating bombs, I think it will be a big plus for all of us, even if they keep the weapons they already have.
1
Donald Trump is a pathological liar. not only will he claim victory, but he will claim he's actually the real Kim Jong-un. The other is just a fake.
1
Trump will claim victory even if doesn't show up for the meeting. Ego is what matters to him.
4
Can Trump claim victory if Kim keeps nuclear weapons? Of course he can. He claims that he got more votes than Hillary Clinton and he didn't. He claims Mueller's probe is a witch hunt and it isn't . Why can't he claim a victory over Kim Jung Un when Kim doesn't give up his nuclear arms. Trump is not bothered in the least by lying about reality.
3
If Trump doesn't get the denuclearization of the Korean peninsula, he will be no different from all the losers who preceded him and who kicked the can down the road.
Kim needs to understand that denuclearization will take place with his help or over his dead body.
The key point is to send a message to rogue states or parastatal groups who might be tempted to believe that they can take the world hostage.
The Ancient Britons thought they could buy off the Danish raiders -- with so-called danegeld. They just got more Danish marauders. Neville Chamberlain thought that Hitler could be reasoned with -- but appeasement just got him a second world war in less than a half century.
When will we ever learn?
1
What a levelheaded exploration of what's realistically possible in the upcoming meeting between Kim and Trump. While only a few of Trump's original demands may be met, and certainly none of the biggest, he will claim absolute victory for being the first president to sit down with a Kim. Let him have it, and his "commemorative coin", (what other leader in the world does this kind of thing?); however, if he's given the Nobel Prize that committee must close shop and fade away forever. Truer words have never spoken about this peace effort when Ms. DiMaggio said the less Trump has to do with this process the better. Oh, and keep John Bolton away from it too.
Three more weeks and two of the greatest megalomaniacs on the planet come to meet in a conference room, both intent on emerging the greatest star in the history of world diplomacy. It will be a cosmic battle of sorts, cloaked in many handshakes and beaming enamel work, but a contest it will be. Hard to say who will win it though, Vader or Valdemort?
5
I very seriously doubt that a US promise never to attack North Korea would mean anything at all:
"Mr. Kim is likely to demand a clear guarantee that the United States would never attack, as well as quick relief from international sanctions."
The "quick relief from international sanctions" part might be attractive to Kim, however.
2
He's keeping his weapons, but will be no threat as long as we befriend him in a genuine manner.
The military industrial complex may disagree.
2
Ha, yes, yes he can. In Donald's world, there really isn't anything akin to "not winning". I think he was kinda raised that way.
1
What if..........they agree to a gradual nuclear disarmament coupled with a gradual reduction of sanctions with economic sweeteners.....maybe the North Koreans don't need to disarm entirely as the ultimate goal. Also gradual integration with the South could be in play and reduce the North's need for nuclear weapons. The key to a real deal may be more transparency on their part. A gradual approach would leave the details to the experts while Trump and Kim could clam that they achieved something.
Well, Trump could package a "victory" by calling it "peace with honor". Oops, that statement was taken and used and we know the outcome of that "win".
It matters not if our "president" did meet with Kim and came back with nothing of substance, other than the commemorative coins.
His supporters will cheer with great enthusiasm and nothing will have changed.
But, as long as a "win" can be declared the supporters will cheer.
3
Trump got played by a nasty dictator just like he did last year when he threatened destruction and hellfire to Kim Jong-un. North Korea's response was to pop off another long range missile.
Country's across the globe watched North Korea poke the U.S. in the eye with a poisoned stick and suffered no penalty.
For a guy who claims to be the best dealmaker in the history in the world, someone please tell him you don't lay down all of your hand until the stakes are at their highest.
Trump should stick with negotiating for truckloads of 3/4" plywood.
8
Are you kidding? North Korea could nuke half the US and his supporters would declare it a HUGE Win. Fox will then broadcast how he has helped with the overcrowding in cities and that gas prices are down due to lower demand.
10
OF COURSE Trump can still claim victory, and he will. No question about it! Remember how he claimed he won a popular majority of millions of votes in the election and his inaugural crowd was the biggest ever and hundreds of other examples?
Motoko Rich, remember who you are writing about!
10
"If Mr. Trump and Mr. Kim do sit down in a room in Singapore on June 12, it is clear that denuclearization is all but off the table in the short term. But analysts suggested Mr. Trump would have no trouble finding other ways to claim victory."
If Trump and Kim Jong-un sat down in adjoining stalls in the mens' room, and there was only one sheet of toilet paper left, on Kim Jong-un's side, Trump would acquiesce, use his extra long tie, and declare victory.
8
North Korea is a miss and with Iran he is doing just what the Saudis want.
1
This administration could be played by NK like a fiddle, set back relations with our allies by generations, destroy our standing in the world, roll back environmental protections by decades, summarily dismiss groups of our own citizens based on their race, faith or sexual orientation and still gleefully proclaim victory. And sadly for some, that would be victory.
6
Trump and Kim use similar tactics. Confuse your opponents with outrageous declarations. Words are just means to deceive the gullible. Like a guerrilla army, don't stay too long in the same position: but keep moving. Surprise. Project an image of strength and authenticity. Divide and rule. And don't forget your goal and the goal of your entourage: money and power.
2
A declaration of 'victory' that makes the U.S. safer but leaves the ROK and Japan still vulnerable to the DPRK's arsenal would be a very poor outcome for the alliance framework in the Pacific. And - not for the first time - it would be something of a gift to China.
C’mon, we all know Trump can, and predictably will, declare (Tweet) victory regardless what happens. To be fair, there are possible outcomes where varying degrees of success, “victory”, might legitimately be claimed. There are also bad outcomes, ranging from parting in rancor (one side or the other standing up and leaving the room in a huff) to calling the meeting off altogether, with or without mutual rancor. Even then, the Trumpet call will say something “victorious”, like “Like I knew from the beginning, I’ve shown that Little Rocket Man is BAD. The only deal with him is NO DEAL, and we know how to deal with people like that. Just wait!” Trump can turn anything into a victory tweet, and his minions will eat it up.
2
The effort is an abject failure for Mr. Trump if Mr. Kim keeps his nuclear bombs and missiles. If Kim keeps them, North Korea would still be a threat to the national security of America and its allies. If he keeps them, the probability of nuclear war is higher.
3
Trump always claims victory no matter the circumstance. It is classic extreme narcissist behavior.
The Republican leadership that placed the unstable, ignorant and vulgar Trump in the Oval Office will be remembered as the most destructive force in US history.
9
It is my belief that the only President who will rightfully claim a victory from these negotiations will be President Xi of China. When Xi and China make claims, such as the island building in the SCS, they are to believed and taken seriously.
The same can't be said for Trump.
3
"Can Trump Still Claim Victory if Kim Jong-un Keeps His Nuclear Arms?"
Um, yes. Duh. Trump will claim victory regardless of whether it's warranted. He would claim victory if everything broke down into war and we got nuked.
14
Maybe. And if Trump does manage to get a major concession from North Korea, the Democrats will still blast him regardless.
"Can Trump Still Claim Victory?"
Are you kidding?!!!!
Trump claims victory and credit for everything, often on both sides of an issue.
Maybe you meant "Can Trump Still Legitimately Claim Victory?"
15
Come think of it, now that you're on the subject of gratuitously claiming credit and victory, Obama accepted the Nobel Peace Prize back in 2009. My memory seems to be failing me. Can you remind me for what exactly he accepted this award and thus claimed credit for something that is escaping me?
The absolute only person claiming victory is Putin. North Korea is folding due to Elmer Fudd’s human persona’s trash talking and name calling. They’re folding because Putin simply cannot resist embarrassing the U.S. by showing decades of adult U.S. run diplomacy means nothing when compared to silly crass childishness.
3
Donald will make a deal as soon as he can include his family in the profits. Trump will start to manufacture his Maga hats in North Korea.
2
I think Kim is very brilliantly making a fool of Trump. Trump wants a Nobel and a Coin with his face on it. Kim knows how foolish this is.
11
Trump can claim victory all he wants; America can never claim victory as long as Trump is President.
9
>
Sure, DJT will just say Kim gave all his nukes up, thanks to his great deal making skills and the Trumpkins will believe him..... That's how the whole show has been going so far....Why would it all of a sudden change?
6
Trump will take President Obama's Iran Deal and replace the word 'Iran' with 'North Korea' and call it a victory.
4
No it is to late he has already been played by Kim.
3
No matter what, he'll declare HIMSELF victorious.
7
Are you kidding? Trump knows that he can do practically anything and he will not receive one negative feedback from his base, who have convinced themselves that we need to through away the baby with the bathwater. No amount of insults, no amount of distortions, no amount of disrespect, no amount of infidelity, no amount of lying is unacceptable. Definitely an affront to every ideal that America has stood for for centuries. So, as many a boss in industry has suggested, even when things don't work out too well, just "declare victory" and move on. Trump is a master at this, and people have bought into it. November elections are a big indicator as to whether we as a Nation will move back toward our idealistic values, i.e., belief that facts, science, human relations based on "all people" having "inherent worth and dignity," are the essence of our Nation. Enough with the belief that the only way to gain respect is to carry a bigger stick.
8
Trump declares victory and denies accountability as and when it suits him. I doubt his poor character will be rectified now.....
2
Does it really matter whether Trump credibly "can" claim victory, when we know he's going to claim it no matter what happens?
2
don't be inordinately partisan. any agreement that decreases the threat of nuclear war--even conventional war--is a win. and as i much as i loathe POTUS, i want a solution to this problem that much more. then in november, i vote independent first, democrat second; republican, never again.
1
I am frequently a Trump skeptic, but on this matter of profound worldwide importance I want him to succeed. What is success ? Unlike many others who seem to know, I don't. My hope is that whatever the specifics of the outcome, the world will farther away from the possibility of devastating war than it is right now. If this can be done without sacrificing the security of the United States, I don't understand how anyone desiring a more peaceful world would not give their full support to our efforts.
Can't we once, as Americans and citizens of this planet put aside our political differences and stand united ?
My biggest fear is that there are those of us who would actually rather see Mr. Trump fail rather than risk the possibility that some people might give him credit if talks are successful. You are out there, aren't you ?
2
No and I greatly doubt that this president is accepting anything less that full compliance with the demanded actions. If he won't do that then more pressure will need to be applied, perhaps some military pressure.
1
Why does anyone have to declare victory? The point is, to keep the world safe!
4
You haven't been paying Trump much attention, have you?
It's all about "I win." "You lose."
1
Sure, the TImes needed three experts to confirm this president likely will claim victory no matter what happens if they do meet.
That's like calling the Vatican or a papal scholar to confirm that, yes indeed, the Pope is Catholic.
3
Silly headline question. Kim could nuke Seoul and Trump would still claim victory.
5
Depends on what success means. We're already hearing the predictable rumblings on culture and human rights reforms - as if working with repressive governments is somehow a bridge to far. Thankfully, Trump has little interest in cultural appropriation and won't lecture Kim on values. I think if we stick to nuclear missiles -- strategic and tactical -- and the immediate conventional weapons threat S.Korea faces, something can get done.
2
Right I don't care what Kim does inside his country, no US citizen should go there. Nuclear weapons, their delivery systems, and any other wmd's are my concerns. Their conventional forces can be dealt with mostly by South Korea.
2
Let's see. Kim orchestrated a nuclear buildup to get Trump's attention. Done. Kim fired rockets to get Trump's attention. Done. Did this knowing the Olympic games were coming to South Korea and the world's attention was there. Fielded a team jointly with South Korea (sign of thaw). Sent his daughter (if I remember correctly) to test the waters. Waters warm.
Did the border crossing dance. World attention Got It.. So who got what they wanted out of this??? And Trump thinks he should get the Nobel. If anything comes of the meeting in is Kim who deserves the credit.
Of course there is nothing if the nukes remain. And even if they go -- no victory for Trump -- they were the game pieces well used.
5
Trump is not concerned about the Nobel prize, he is already wealthy and famous, so he does not need or really want it. And his daughter went to the Olympics, not to do anything else. He will either make the deal or suffer.
Of course he's concerned with the Nobel Prize. Obama got one, he has to get a better one. Don't be the fool I've assumed you are.
If wealth and fame were his only goals and desire, why did he do the POTUS run?
1
Centuries from now, when referencing to this period of the extinct USA republic textbooks will call him Trump "the invincible " , not because he was never defeated, but because not matter how badly he did, he always claimed victory, and Fox News echoed it.
5
This is a fake news headline only to attract anti POTUS ridicule as in comments below.
The POTUS has been clear what he means by denuclearization - a complete, verifiable and irreversible process where no nuclear arms exist on the peninsula.
Just today at the White House, he was again explicit on this topic.
And while some may doubt his IQ - I think he is smart enough to know that he will be laughed at to claim such a hollow victory.
I am a Republican and I know he will pay a price with this type of claim at the next election.
This story is gives rise to exasperation with his supporters.
Let's wait till June 12 and see what happens.
Today, he dangled a possibility of a delay. My own hope is the POTUS take a stand either June 12 or we see the little rocket man being marched off to a justice he deserves in Pyongyang.
And I hope the POTUS let's China know of its complicity in this loss of a historic, once in a life opportunity.
3
i want CVID like anyone else. i'd settle for far less, if it meant a decrease in the prospect for either nuclear or conventional war on the peninsula. and while i'd give the administration props for the success, even if short of CVID, could care less about an agreement either positively or negatively effects republican. let the concern for the greater good transcend partisanship.
You give Trump too much credit. Even if he doesn't get anything he came for, he will somehow claim he won.
1
Kim Jong-un will definitely agree to meet & give up nuclear arsenal just to get a Trump bling coin.
2
Let's take Trump's name out of all the headlines. Refer to him as the current president. Run a sidebar directing his fans to his tweets on some obscure section of the website. He claims not to like or believe the Times but he sure likes to see his name in print.
4
Kim will quote Charlton Heston to Trump: "From my cold dead hands!"
3
that can be arranged.
Kim is not going to give up his nuclear arms nor will or should he trust anything Trump would ever say to him.
What he wants is relief from sanctions and all he has to do is agree to stop all further testing of ballistic missiles and to cease all provocative comments and agree not to make threats against any nation.
Anyone who believes that Trump will get Kim to give up all his nuclear weapons and agree to unfettered access to all his nuclear facilities either voted for Trump or are just as big a con man as Trump is.
There will be no more threats against American or South Korea, no more testing of missiles, and that, and only that will be all that Kim agrees to. Trump will claim that he removed the North Korean nuclear threat from America and our allies but if you believe that then you probably are part of Trump's base that believe all the hundreds and hundreds of lies the man has told and continues to tell every single day.
If the folks who give out Nobel Prizes believe that Trump deserves a Nobel Prize for this charade then they are as duped as Trump's supporters are. Kim never intended to use his nukes as he knows that would be the end of his regime and dynasty.
If he stops his ballistic missile tests and stops making threats we are all better off and we should accept that, and NOT agree to remove our troops and stop our annual joint exercises with South Korea. Kim will not protest this. All he wants is relief from the most onerous sanctions.
2
All Kim has to do is promise Trump a big military parade in his “honour” and Trump will be putty in his hands. But seriously, Trump would never admit if he got things wrong, it’s always someone else’s fault. Besides there’s the coins to consider : https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/22/shining-achievement-is-t...
2
They will,however, be in Singapore.
Rhetorical question. That one claims victory everytime he opens his mouth. Disgusting.
5
CAN trump claim victory? No. WILL he? I guarantee he will, EVEN IF THER IS NO MEETING!
4
So Trump has met his match, first in Stormy Daniels and now in Kim Jong-un.
I am reading Zito and Todd's book The Great Revolt. It makes one understand how it has come so far with Trump.
When the denuclearization was announced I assumed it had to be serious, and that everything had been thoroughly checked. So I have been fooled again!
1
Kim must be having visions of "Libya" dancing in his head. Trump's word is worth nothing.
1
Neither is Obama's that is why any deal should (must) be a treaty. One with conditions, and one that is so good it will pass the senate. See what happens when you understand and follow the Constitution, instead of making private deals like Obama.
'Cause the US NEVER backs out of treaties! Nor does NK!
Right, let me list those great treaties, let's start with the Native American treaties.
What a silly question?
Trump will follow his "Art of the Deal" formula and, in the end, declare victory no matter what happens.
Why continue to report on what Donny thinks or doesn't think, says or doesn't say?
8
No one can claim success in North Korea unless it becomes a free and open society. Even if we succeed in reducing the threat of war, we cannot forget the millions of human beings that are suffering under the boot of the Kim regime.
If Kim really wants to avoid a repeat of Libya, he needs to radically transform North Korean society and step aside. Gaddafi was killed not because he gave up nukes, but because he was a brutal dictator. Violence can only keep a population in check for so long. Eventually, the curtain will fall down around the regime, and its people will see that they were being taken advantage of. And they will be angry.
2
"Can Trump Still Claim Victory if Kim Jong-un Keeps His Nuclear Arms?"
Trump can and does claim whatever he wants but almost none of what he claims is true.
The Korea talks will be terrific,(whether they actually occur or not), believe me.
4
Agreements are only as good as the reputation and word of those that are making the agreements.
5
Or in this case the legality of the agreement. Treaties are the only agreements that our government makes with other governments, not say agreements by Obama or Trump either. Presidents come and go, treaties are more difficult to change.
Do you mean claim a meaningful victory? He's already legitimated Kim by agreeing to meet. Short of nuclear disarmament, this is a debacle.
4
Whether he can claim credit or not is immaterial. We all know that he will.
6
Kim is playing Trump but Trump has his new, shiny commemorative coin to sell !
2
Of course Trump can claim victory. That is all he does. Behave poorly, perform poorly, and declare victory.
9
The midterm October surprise: Kim tests another missile, in Trump's dis-honor.
1
You are kidding, right? Trump will take credit for everything that he can spin as being positive (winning in his vernacular). Trump is like the rooster who thinks his crow is what causes the sun to rise.
3
You are asking the wrong question. The question is not "Can Trump Still Claim Victory if Kim Jong-un Keeps His Nuclear Arms?" The question is "How Will Trump Spin the Summit to Claim Victory When Kim Jong-un Keeps His Nuclear Arms?"
10
Kim could give Trump all his warheads, help load them on Air Force 1 and people would say Trump is endangering the ocean by flying over it with nuclear material.
3
You genuinely don't see the damage Trump is doing to America, do you?
Dear God.....
1
We read here that Duyeon Kim, a visiting senior fellow at the Korean Peninsula Future Forum in Seoul, says --
“It unfortunately won’t matter what the experts think.”
Is this a misprint?
Shouldn't he more wisely be saying --
“It fortunately won’t matter what the experts think.”
"how Mr. Trump will redefine success"?
He will find a way. Donald never fails to take credit. He is already trying to blame Xi and looking for a way to back out of the meeting.
2
What Trump claims is irrelevant. Even if they have tea Trump will call it the greatest moment in American Diplomacy as the world and most Americans roll the eyes. These are not normal times in the United States.
4
Get ready for Trump Tower, Pyongyang. Orange kimchi in the restaurant. MAGA hats in Korean available in the gift shop.
4
Not happening, the Trump organization is not doing any new international deals while he is president.
All Trump wants is to be in the news 24/7. So far , he’s getting it .
5
What's a meeting when you can have the shiny commemorative coin without the hassle of traveling, negotiating, having to DVR "Fox & Friends"...
4
Codependency from the NK is what 45 needs and will not get.
It's sick and pathological
2
Kim has nothing to lose and everything to gain. Trump can only lose. Kim is playing trump like a cheap violin.
7
You have it backwards, we have nothing to lose because we can always return to the previous path. Kim has a lot to lose like his life and his position if he does not do as required.
Are you John Bolton's personal valet or an understudy in a remake of Dr. Strangelove starring as Major Kong?
Obama won a Nobel Peace Prize so Trump's gotta have one, too.
And, if Trump doesn't win, he'll unleash the full fire and fury of a tweetstorm about how he was robbed. Somehow, he'll blame Democrats. And, he may whack Norway with sanctions. Oh, and he'll want to know if there's any way that the Justice department can launch a criminal investigation.
Perhaps Trump will emerge from his meeting with Kim clutching a piece of paper and tweet that he has secured "peace in our time". Then, some aide will try to convince him to delete that tweet. But, the aide will need to explain the historical reference in one paragraph.
Is this really the way the world works now?
4
The Nobel prizes are awarded by a Swedish committee not Norway but I don't think Trumph knows that and may punish Norway, close enough.
1
The president recently commented that he does not care about the Nobel prize, but rather world peace. I heard him say it, now some other politicians have been talking about the Nobel. Personally I would reject it no matter what, after all Obama got it for nothing thus reducing its value.
"Can Trump Still Claim Victory if Kim Jong-un Keeps His Nuclear Arms?"
NO, he cannot.
7
Trump will claim victory no matter what happens when, where, or how. If he starts the WW III that ends the world, he would say I am God, and today is the day of the rapture.
4
Only on Fox and Friends.
7
If the world is safer, and non threatening everyone is a winner. It is time for the press to stop taking sides and inform us of potential policies that may bring peace to the world. Zero sum games benefit no one, if the so called winners.
3
Why are we just now hearing widespread knowledge that the nuclear facility Kim says he will still demolish in fact collapsed from all the testing and that it has been unusable for about 6 weeks at least. It has been repeatedly reported to be so, but not in U.S. media. Kim has to close it. He never intended to make a deal. He was making the most of a bad situation in North Korea, and Trump fell for it. The world know it was a bluff but it was not reported here. Where was the U.S. press?
2
Well Gee I knew about it several weeks ago. The site has been leaking radiation, and killed some in North Korea. You are just not very well informed, not my problem.
Where was the U.S. press? I read this information in several U. S. newspapers. It's hardly been a secret.The question is, where are the people reading the press reports?
If he doesn't keep nuclear arms, I'm sure The Times will find a reason to deny President Trump that "success."
3
So, Trump tells a brutal dictator that the U.S. will guarantee that said brutal dictator can stay in power if he does what Trump wants him to do so Trump can claim a win?
I want to wake up from this.
2
No so our country, allies, and the world is safer. I don't care what he does within his own country, and he wants to stay in power that is his only goal. Now if he won't do as required removing him is the option, convince him he will be removed if he does not agree and he will agree.
No, he can't claim victory
2
But I'm sure he will.
2
Trump would claim 'many people' are saying he should claim victory and, of course, he will.
3
After Iran and Jerusalem decisions Trump is puffing smoke over any Nobel Peace Prize. The man has no grasp on the world and its history.
2
So, Kim says "no" to the deal. He's not about to surrender the nukes that protect him from Trump's uncertain intentions. He decides to send one...maybe two...of his nukes to Iran.
Whole new scenario.
7
Based on Trump's track record to date, if Kim Jong-un detonated a nuke in the Capitol rotunda, Trump would claim a personal milestone victory for draining the swamp.
4
Your headline says it all. Trump claims. Period. The only actual success he's had was the tax cut for the rich. If you don't count all the swamp-dwellers he appointed who are busy lining their pockets. This presidency cannot be over soon enough.
5
Every street vendor in every foreign country knows exactly how to 'play' an ugly American (is there an uglier American than the President?) Engage with flattery; exchange some thing of little value for some money or some thing of great value; flatter the American again to make a him think he got a great deal. .. The Ugly American brags what a great dealmaker he is, while the street vendor laughs behind his back.
The Chinese reduce tariffs on cars (almost no value) in exchange for ZTE deal. North Korea can't wait to deal with an easy mark.
7
Whatever happens Kim Jong-un can claim victory, from being a pariah to recognized on the world stage by the Trump admin.
I'll bet it's the first time that any one in the Kim dynasty has been called "Very Honorable’ by a US president.
9
A shadow play of buffoonery.
Kim wins by Trump showing up, and then giving Trump a flat no on the nuke issue. That's a defeat for America I described on these pages weeks ago. You'd think the brainiacs of this administration could see this freight train coming down the tracks.
Now they mostly likely will cancel.
Obviously, the North Korea situation has implications for Iran. In addition, the trade war with China cannot be ameliorated by Kim's meeting with Xi Jinping.
Oh I forgot, Trump supporters don't want anything to do with the art of diplomacy.
5
Trump has no other desired outcome other than a self-congratulatory tweet. Outside of that result, he could care less about American power or standing in the world.
The icing on Trump's cake is if he can cause the democratically elected, chump leaders to tear their hair out in frustration with the harebrained diplomacy coming out of the White House. Nothing gives him greater satisfaction than to diminish and demean the good guys and all they stand for. He thinks he will be that much taller when he poses upon the ruins of civilization.
4
Two men who crave attention more than anything else (human rights or the future of the planet) get attention from media organs jumping overt themselves to give it? I think you've answered your own question.
3
As he always does, no matter what, trump will claim victory. The real victor, of course, is Kim, who managed to get the one thing no other US president was willing to give -- a meeting. Basically, trump was bamboozled.
4
This is how despots becomes dictators. They exaggerate and flat out lie about their accomplishments, (even if they have none like Trump) and then their sheeplike herd of cult believers hang on every word thinking he is the Messiah. This man is a menace.
4
I'm guessing they will have more trouble trying to breakup their meeting once it begins.
2
One thing is beyond doubt: no matter what happens or doesn't happen, Trump will claim victory.
And around 40% of Americans will treat his post-meeting (or post-no-meeting) self-congratulatory tweets like the gospel.
Please, rest of America, get out and vote in November!
4
It’s really pitiful that so many seem willing to forego peace or a reduction/elimination of NK nukes just to get the satisfaction that Trump will have failed. If he does succeed somehow they will scoff and do everything possible to minimize and discredit anything positive, say he was played, it’s not real, it won’t last, etc. How sad to sacrifice something so potentially positive for pure vituperation and partisan animus.
14
George S., I despise Trump but want him to succeed. But why would you pull out of the multilateral Iran deal which has so far met all of its stated objectives? That probably causes Kim Jong Un and President Ji to trust him less. China playing him like a fiddle.
28
It’s really pitiful that so many seem willing to forego peace or a reduction/elimination of Iran nukes just to get the satisfaction that Obama will have failed. When he did succeed somehow you continue to scoff and do everything possible to minimize and discredit anything positive, say he was played, it’s not real, it won’t last, etc. How sad to sacrifice something so potentially positive for pure vituperation and partisan animus.
67
George S I would love there to be peace and a reduction of nukes, but I'm not holding my breath. Note that all the efforts Obama made toward peace and reduction of nukes in Iran were treated by the GOP exactly in way you describe, "he was played, it's not real, it won't last, etc" We lived eight years of Obama's presidency and the first two of Trump's feeling exactly how you feel, "sad to sacrifice something so potentially positive for pure vituperation and partisan animus."
28
Trump will declare whatever happens a victory. The man is a broken record.
4
Anything short of North Korea nuking Seattle, and Trump will declare victory. That is who he is and what he does.
Sad to say but Trump is the weak link in negotiations with anybody - even Kim. They have nuclear deterrence and nothing we can do or "negotiate" will take that away. They have all the leverage, we have all the idiots. Fox news will end up declaring victory with an agreement that is not even half as good as the Iran agreement that they declared a "disaster". They have no other choice (except for declaring their President a disaster).
All there is left, is to lift the sanctions in return for Kim saying something that will allow Trump to declare victory and Fox declaring that our great leader, is bigger than their great leader.
SAD
5
Answer: No! Ridiculous from the team to scrap the Iran deal, unless you meant a complete victory for N Korea. Then: Yes.
3
The NOKs will never give up their hard earned nuclear deterrent. They would be foolish to do so and the US would be foolish to suggest it. We should get confirmations and treaties outlining our requirements and the NOK's agreements to our demands if accepted. That will be the extent of disarmament as defined by those treaties.
15
That's why people voted for Trump. Your blog makes absolutely no sense to most people. I am pretty intelligent and I can not understand what you are saying. What is it you think are those requirements? To me it is quite simple: They must agree to give up their ability to put thermo- nuclear warheads over our cities. That means invasive verification. Anything short of that is useless to Americans.
Again, it is not Kim's nukes, but that he got them after signing the NNPT and getting nuclear technology as a benefit thereof. Then he cheated and cheated and cheated on the treaty. If he is allowed to get away with it, the treaty is a dead letter and instead of 8 or 9 nuclear states there will be 40. At that point "deterrence" is meaningless.
The premise of your headline is troubling. Why does it matter? Whatever happened to placing US security above fulfilling Trump's personal emotional needs? In other words, who cares! I see too much coverage around Trump's personality and his unusual emotional needs and too little relevant to the life-and-death issues that affect the safety of innocent people.
6
If these two meet and the only agreement is that Kim will change his hair style and in return Trump will wear shorter ties, our Boy President will claim victory. Trust me.
16
"Can Trump Still Claim Victory if Kim Jong-un Keeps His Nuclear Arms?"
Can he??? He already has.
He ordered that they make a challenge coin, so he can hand them out. (The fool also counts chickens before they hatch, but he has to take off his shoes and socks for that exercise.)
7
Trump can, and will, claim whatever he wants to claim.
That does not make it true.
Most of what he says is demostrably a lie.
10
Japan is the big loser: a unified Korea in China’s orbit. Over/under for end of American military presence in Korea: 8 yrs.
1
As odd as it might seem, given Kim's venality and Trump's incompetence (and venality), something good could actually come of this meeting. Kim could make vague noises about cutting out or back on his nukes, and take a few limited, specific steps in that direction and to better relations with South Korea. Trump could tweet "Peace in our time!" or some such nonsense. And the two sides could agree to further negotiations. The upshot would be a reduction in tensions and in effect would kick the can down the road, which is not ideal but far better than a war (whether intentional or accidental).
Of course, in the meantime Trump will be ratcheting up tensions with Iran after pulling out of a far better deal than he'll ever get with North Korea. And six or 12 or 18 months from now, certainly Bolton and quite possibly Pompeo will be whispering in Trump's ear to become belligerent again as it becomes clear that North Korea is not giving up its nukes and in fact has bolstered its capacity to hit the USA. So Trump's "peace in our time" won't solve anything, but just might push back dealing with the North Korean threat until there is a cooler and more competent mind in the White House. And in these tough times, perhaps that's the best we can hope for.
4
My congratulations to whomever chose the word "claim" instead of the word declare as claim is an exceedingly appropriate word choice.
The amount of false claims of this President, his administration and the Republican party, have put forth as facts, is as dangerous as it is astonishing. I won't mention the many claims of prior sexual assaults committed by this President.
Those who voted for Trump will soon find that Kim, nor Xi for that matter, are not gullible men swayed by false claims. I wish the same could be said for my fellow Americans who voted for and continue to support Trump.
One term.
5
Can Trump "claim" victory? He can and will. Sanders and Fox will push the alternative facts of the alternative reality in which the alternative right chooses to believe. [shrug] They've already gulped the Kool-Aid, so why not drink their fill at this point, right?
What's he got to lose? His credibility with those outside his core base?! This is the man who said, "I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally." This is the man who said "I got a lot of [black voter] support." This is the man who said "I finished," ("FINISHED," mind you), "the birther controversy."
Trump's messaging is straight out of Orwell's absurdist dystopian template:
"It this moment, for example, in 1984 (if it was 1984), Oceania was at war with Eurasia and in alliance with Eastasia. In no public or private utterance was it ever admitted that the three powers had at any time been grouped along different lines. Actually, as Winston well knew, it was only four years since Oceania had been at war with Eastasia and in alliance with Eurasia. But that was merely a piece of furtive knowledge, which he happened to possess because his memory was not satisfactorily under control. Officially the change of partners had never happened. Oceania was at war with Eurasia: therefore Oceania had always been at war with Eurasia. The enemy of the moment always represented absolute evil, and it followed that any past or future agreement with him was impossible."
Just wait for it.
53
I agree. Trump could fail completely at something and still claim victory. (Oh, and his followers will believe it.)
7
Trump's approach to North Korea is like his trade talks with China. He doesn't know what he wants so his team is leaderless. In trade he's got free-marketers and protectionists yelling profanities at each other in the hallways, and in North Korea he's got John Bolton threatening the Libya model while Pompeo works on diplomacy. With his (and our country's, sadly) foreign policy staff pulling in opposite directions there's little or no chance of progress on any front.
1
What Trump says after meeting with Kim Jong-un:
"Believe me," my victory is "Huge, Incredible, Tremendous, Amazing, Terrific, Beautiful, Record-Setting, and the Greatest Ever."
What Kim Jong-un actually gets:
Full recognition of North Korea with Kim Jong-un and his family being the only legitimate rulers. The green light to keep all of his nuclear arms and make as many more as he likes. A lifting of all sanctions. A commitment that no one can ever complain about any human rights abuses against the North Korean people again. The full withdrawal and all US troops from South Korea.
What Trump actually gets:
As many North Korean near-perfect counterfeit US $100 bills, commonly called a "Supernotes," as he wants. A host of bribes which personally enrich him based upon his further promise to help create North Korean jobs.
What America actually gets:
Nothing, except the very real prospect of a nuclear conflict, and a green light for China to forcibly take over most of Asia.
What South Korea actually gets:
Being eaten for breakfast by Kim Jong-un.
6
No, but he will.
3
Trump can claim anything, un-claim it the next day, and claim it again in a week.
He can write the history books, or have someone write them for him, just like he can put a photo of himself on a fake Time Magazine cover.
His followers will cheer him.
All that I can live with, even though we all know the risk of Trump and Kim playing with nuclear "buttons"
What I cannot stomach is Congress allowing all this to happen. It is just so shameful!
3
Many Koreans suspect Japan is trying to mess up the peace process in Korean peninsula. This article may be one of the examples why many Koreans think nothing positive or constructive comes out of Japan, even the news article from NYTimes. So disappointing.
1
Good point. Since Trump is binary, multiple scenarios are far beyond his limited capability. He knows nothing of this, nor will he ever.
1
North Korea could invade South Korea and nuke Tokyo and Seattle and trump would be whining that he should get a Nobel for his excellent efforts.
8
Of course he can claim victory. President Trump claims victory when he brushes his teeth in the morning without starting WWIII. Why would a pittance like getting no results prevent him from claiming a fantastic meeting and a juuuuge victory for him? In fact, what does ANY claim emanating from the White House have to do with reality as the rest of the nation and the world knows it?
7
This is the South Korean version of success: "as long as the Americans keep military in the neighborhood, but let us play at being "big bad Korea", we don't care what the North does." South Koreans would love to feel they had forced the world to recognize that their contry was mysteriously re joined and that peace , now established, Kim Un would be little more then their "nuclear enforcer", protecting them from any past or future assaults from Japan.For this service they will pay him any coin he desires-he knows this, too. Only Mr T is ignorant of the facts.
When it all falls apart, then the SOuth screams for the US to pull it out of the quicksand or the rising waters. Until that point they live in a dream of korean regeneration and there will be nothing but smiles on their faces if Trump decides to leave them in the sandbox with the DPRK.
I find it kind of ironic that political analysis are making judgments based on Trump's past decisions. Although I would hope that my country's president would not make choices that hold so much freight based on whether he would be making a bigger name for himself yet or not.
Although it is hard to say it seems like a lot of the choices he makes is focused around making himself look better. It is almost like he wants his name in the history books. Although there is nothing wrong with wanting to do something great for the country, how that is done is almost never done solely by one person, or one fell swoop alone. Although there are cases of that happening I'm sure.
All in all, I hope that Trump makes some headway with the North Korean negotiations, however I can see him addressing the public in a somewhat pompous manner that would suggest more was accomplished (or what was accomplished was done by him alone). It is actually sad that he does this, in my eyes he almost taints anything favorable he has done with this attitude.
It's important to recognize the complexities of foreign policies, and inter-country negotiations, not just so one can make the right choice, but so the public can better grasp the situations.
1
You are beginning to get it. Trump's entire record of cons, NDAs, crimes and abuses speak volumes about him and are excellent predictors of what he will do in the future. As HE has said, he will always be Trump. THAT, in a nutshell, should scare the pants off all Americans - a master con artist at the head of our government with a pack of toadies trying to protect them all from prosecution for their crimes.
Any support for this narcissistic sociopath is an attack against our country and our Constitution.
2
When goods are flowing freely in and through the North, perhaps the People themselves will choose and demand hospitals and housing instead of prisons and military bases. Imagine if the money and effort that we all spend on defense in the region were spent on enriching the lives of everyone there (North and South). I don’t quite understand why we went there to begin with, but we’re there and we owe The peninsula whatever it needs to recover from our “help”. What does South Korea want and need from us? Let’s open the door to trade. Some light will get through. Maybe.
1
Trumph says he would guarantee Kim's safety (and by extension Kims continuing in office) if NK gave up its nuclear weapons. Is this the same type of guarantee that would bind Trump's successors? George Bush must have given an implied guarantee in 2003 when Libya's Gadaffi gave up their nuclear capabilities. Then in 2011 Obama and SecState Clinton supported the Arab Spring overthrow of Gadaffi which led to his subsequent killing.
3
Trump has changed the game for the U.S. Our word is good for 8 years at most. You signed an agreement with the U.S - big deal - the next guy on office can now feel free to completely ignore anything you agreed to. Trump couldn't care less about the U.S. - it's all Trump for Trump. We have allies -spit on them - I'll pick my own allies, thank you.
Our president is guided by vengeance, spitefulness and his own ego -nothing more: g-d help us all....
78
Our word was good for 8 years, when the world could be certain we would do nothing but talk.
You forgot greed. He's guided by greed too.
China has a vested interest in keeping NK in conflict with the US, distracting the US from putting pressure on China trade negotiations. This is pretty transparent based on the timing of Kim's change of heart immediately after his second visit with Xi.
This may cost the US hundreds of billions in trade concessions not won with China, if we let the cost for progress with Pyongyang be giving things up to Beijing. This is a complex chess game, Trump does seem like he is up to the challenge though, saying if Kim does not want to meet the conditions for talks, Trump will wait. US, hold your ground with your real adversary, CHINA!
2
I do not want to see a negotiation lead to bad results, or worse for an overeager President to get so angry at North Korea's intransigence that he escalates tensions towards war. This is an honest opinion from another American, whatever my membership in a political gang or tribe, should NOT matter. Thinking that this initial meeting would immediately, lead to nuclear disarmament by North Korea is shortsighted. If it were truly that easy, it would have been done already. I hope that the President can roll with the inevitable problems that this negotiation will entail.Hopefully, the President can roll with the inevitable problems that this negotiation will entail.
11
Sure, Trump can "claim victory". Trump can claim anything he wants.
Meanwhile, Kim Jong Un is *already* laughing at him... after having played the "master deal-maker" like a deep-hooked fish. North Korea has Trump's buttons well defined, and knows just which ones to push to manuever Trump right where they want him.
5
Maybe Trump can be awarded the Ig Nobel Prize for Improbable Presidency. The Ig Nobel Prizes for science are awarded to "honor achievements that first make people laugh, and then make them think." Hopefully they will think about actually voting for the best qualified candidate in the future and not some self-titled "stable genius".
4
If anyone is surprised by this, then they haven't been paying attention. The Donald KNOWS NOTHING! He is not a great deal maker, which is why no bank in the US will lend to him. He is nowhere near a capable President because he has no knowledge of the history of anything - he doesn't listen and he doesn't read. Pay attention to his quotes on this subject; he's all over the map. And, he doesn't know or admit what he doesn't know. After these talks fail, he'll be on to the next "in the moment" decision about the future of the world. Little by little, day by day, he's destroying the credibility of our country. And, the smug Republicans pretend it isn't happening. Never ever did I ever think the US could devolve so quickly. Get out and vote, people. Make America great again for real!
3
wrong, china is trying to eat our lunch, using NK as a foil. wise up to the complicated chess game unfolding before your eyes.
2
This is Trump you're talking about. Jong-un could actually use weapons and Trump would claim he won.
Maybe his next reality show should be "Deal or No Deal".
2
of course
His followers will never know the difference or care for that matter.
1
What can President Obama claim for his Nobel Peace Prize?
Is the Times more concerned about Trump getting credit-or peace?
He got Iran to stop there nuclear weapons program and give up a lot of the physical materials and equipment needed to continue.
1
Did you know he was given a Peace Price two months into his Presidency?
Did what you claim happen in that time frame?
That's easy! No
Defeat snatched from the jaws of victory.
Trump is clearly exhausted from all that winning.
3
If a tree really doesn't fall in the forest but the lumberjack swears he chopped it down and millions of townspeople along with the town crier who's secretly on the payroll say they saw it crash, the truth won't really matter to those people until it's wintertime and they need firewood. Many of us are appalled on a daily basis by the lying lumber jack and his eager ax carriers. We firmly believe there are four seasons, winter always being one of them. Funny thing too is that the lumber jack keeps a house in Florida.
3
Of course Trump can.
He does not even need an agreement to still declare victory.
Besides, victory is a relative ideal in Trumpworld, because as long as his followers believe it, then what else matters?
Reality?
You must be kidding!
2
Trump would claim victory even if the US had to turn its nuclear weapons over to North Korea.
We’ll see. I hope things do work out, but nothing has happened, yet.
1
Nothing is going to happen.
Trump should accept a deal in which North Korea removes its artillery aimed at Seoul and guarantees verifiably not to sell or give nuclear weapons to non-state actors or other states in exchange for an end to economic sanctions, a treaty ending the Korean War, and future negotiations between Pyongyang and Seoul.
14
Even if he did, they'd still find reasons to write piece after piece on why it was the wrong thing to do.
1
And, as Mike Pompeo helpfully explained, the Gadhaffi option is there for Kim. I expect he was listening. That really is not the best way to sell denuclearization.
2
It was John Bolton, but point taken; Trump's team is uncoordinated and unreliable. Bolton wants to bomb North Korea, evidently, and Pompeo want to negotiate. It will be just like the trade talks; Trump doesn't know what he's doing and/so he's hired staff that goes in opposite policy directions.
1
Given that Trump really is POTUS, one could think of the proposition of "denuclearization" as an object of sales proficiency. However, as time has elapsed, the foregone conclusion that nuclear power in virtually all its forms is not only dangerous but also noxious as regards the health of human kind does indeed point to a somewhat different approach, different from coercion as well, to bringing nuclear nations to the disarmament table. If a concurrent effort to whatever it is that Trump thinks he proposes to do with North Korea, is made to bring some of the most problematic bearers of nuclear arms, such as India and Pakistan, to the negotiating table, it could be that, emulative behavior being what it is, a world-wide consensus could begin to be reached, and that the rest of the "powers" would begin to consider it in their interests to join in. That would not be some sort of profit-mongering sales ploy.
Can he claim victory? Of course he will, the only question is how much we have to lose so he can win.
2
"Can Trump Still Claim Victory if Kim Jong-un Keeps His Nuclear Arms?"
The logic of the headline suggests that Trump and his supporters are somehow bound by facts and outcomes. And we all know they are not. So, as so many of them are these days, the headline becomes rhetorical.
As he has done innumerable times before, Trump can "claim victory" for anything, anytime, anywhere, the actual facts and reality of the situation are completely irrelevant to him, Fox News, the GOP, and his base.
A more accurate headline might read, "No Real Victory for Trump if Kim Jong-un Keeps His Nuclear Arms" - That isn't rhetoric, it's fact.
85
Of course Trump will claim a great victory with North Korea, and with the China trade war. And the loyal GOP will bray right along with him.
3
The nukes have to go...either by negotiation or force. Either way...Kim needs to understand...he will lose his nukes.
1
So far everything has been a victory for Kim Jong-un, as he has been recognized as a world leader and even praised by Trump. After breaking the nuclear arms with Iran, I would guess most people would be skeptical of any promises made by this president.
Anything less than a denuclearization by North Korea would be an embarrassment for Trump, especially with all the 'peace prize' nonsense that was been bantered around by his base. After all the recent public threats from Trump against North Korea, this situation seems quite volatile and frightening. With the walls closing in on Trump in the Russia investigation, I'm sure most people are concerned about what kind of diversion Trump will use next.
31
Sure, he can claim victory.
Just like he can claim that invisible nobel prize,
or claim there's no collusion.
6
When something appears to be too good to be true, it usually is. I had high hopes. There were no more tweets insulting Kim as Little Rocket Man, no more salvos of Dotard. There was much good will all around it seemed.........and then reality crashed the party, as I thought it would. Kim will not give up his nukes and we can't make him. That's real. When Trump trashed the Iran agreement, this 'summit' with Kim was dead on arrival. It won't happen. Believe me.
2
No. Dear Leader can't have it both ways. He's the King of Deals, right? So DL better deliver.
Ever since John Bolton threatened with his "Libya Model" I knew that this summit is not going to happen. Kim Jong Un is not a fool. He is not going to trust Donald Trump. I do not blame him.
Donald Trump should try to have a summit with the Iranians if he is still interested in the Nobel Prize.
9
“The less President Trump is involved in that process,” Ms. DiMaggio said, “the better.”
So true. Good advice for all processes.
13
The point of this article is mute. Kim never follows thru on any agreement and is playing trump. This is all show biz folks...
7
President Trump can claim he is a woman, and with enough support from Fox News, the base will believe. But what did Mr. Trump think he was going to accomplish in the first place? You don't have to be a stable genius to realize North Korea will not surrender their nuclear weapons.
He needs to start small, with hotels, golf and casinos. Once our two countries have mutual business interests, the rest will follow.
9
Thought he claimed success for the China Brouhaha regarding tariffs.
6
If Kim doesn't give up his nukes what has even changed? Everything is the same except Kim's country also has access to the world economy and is no longer a full-blown pariah State. That's a victory for Kim!
Also I have to criticize the media a bit for acting like this may even have a chance of working out. Obviously Kim will never give up his only security blanket for power. We look like complete fools for even entertaining this meeting.
15
Even the so-called liberal media, like the Times, is lowering the bar ridiculously for Trump. Trump didn't "bring Kim to the table" - Kim has brought Trump. A face-to-face meeting with the American President, with no preconditions, has always been a lodestar for NK - it gives Kim a huge boost and gives the U.S. nothing. NK would have had such a meeting with any prior president in a heartbeat, if the prior president had been so foolish as to give that away for nothing. If Obama had met with Kim like this - and Kim did not agree to unilateral de-nuclearation - Republicans would be calling it the greatest diplomatic blunder in human history. But they'll try to call this idiocy - whatever it ultimately amounts to - a "victory." And it appears the center-left press will fail to point out the absurdity of this effort.
35
I think Mr. Kim should keep as that is the only way they can stop us from liberating them like we did to Iraq.
2
Should he claim victory? No
Will he do it anyways? Absolutely
9
Watching these two insecure buffoons would be funny if they were not in positions of power.
6
To summarize, it appears that Kim Jong-un is maneuvering Trump into accepting a deal in which Kim gives him the sleeves out of a vest he isn't even wearing. Trump could be getting completely bamboozled here.
72
Trump can declare victory no matter what happens. Remember how he admitted that he planned to declare victory even if he lost the election in 2016?
5
Trump will declare victory even if the US surrenders unconditionally to NK.
20
Great article, but the headline asks a silly question. The answer to "Can Trump Still Claim Victory?" is obviously "Yes" since Trump claims victory for everything with no regard for the accuracy of his claims. Just think about what Trump has claimed "victory" for already:
- Largest inaugural crowd in history.
- Most legislation passed of any President.
- First military pay increase in a decade.
- Biggest electoral college victory in history.
- Biggest tax cut in history.
... and the list goes on and on. Sure, they are all lies, but he nevertheless claims victory for them.
24
Let us reflect upon the Korean War, realizing that both China and the Soviet Union were strongly involved in defending the North from a full-scale military invasion. Further, the option of full-scale effort to destroy North Korea through the use of bombs was adopted rather than an invasion of troops. These are the reasons for North Korea's nuclear weapons program, along with intense resentment of U.S.Naval vessels patrolling the peninsula with nuclear arms. KJU has stated that if all other nations would agree to and begin to disarm their stores of nuclear weapons, then DPRK would do the same. It is very foolish to think that the north will disarm their nukes and abide "under the gun" so to speak in the wake of some treaty. It won't happen. What might be in the works is the former Soviet strategy of strategic retreat, that is, to draw the U.S. into an untenable position as regards negotiations and even other postures. If people like Bolton think that they are going to manhandle the North Koreans, even visit "hellfire and brimstone" upon them without similar consequences, then this is a continuation of an already established delusion, apparent in the foreign affairs of the U.S. The censure of the whole world is already a hair's breadth away from the U.S. because of the immense problems it has created in the middle east, for one. Such actions as those threatened by U.S. officials would bring about a lot more than just censure.
4
Of course Trump will claim victory. He claims all sorts of nonsense, and a core third of the American public seems determined to believe anything he says, no matter how ludicrous.
And, Trump has set a really low bar for success here, given that his own bellicose threats have made nuclear war seem imminent over the past year. Any outcome more peaceful than that will feel like a relief.
This is what life is like when the world's preeminent power, one with a massive complex economy, huge military and arsenal of nuclear weapons, is run by a total incompetent who cares for nothing except himself. Not a comfortable situation.
14
"Can Trump Still Claim Victory if Kim Jong-un Keeps His Nuclear Arms?"
I don't know about 'can', but will he? Yes. Next question please.
5
our Democracy moves closer to its death. trump scheduled a meeting and it's being delayed and re-scheduled. it's the end of western civilization. never before in history has this happened.
1
bet all my money that Kim will not give up his nukes. How can a sane person trust Trump’s word after he breached the Iran deal?
4
Hate to say it but however civil and mature people try to be when they vehemently dislike each other their relationships are always like holding a hot iron. I’ve always preferred civil, smart, empathetic people setting examples by the way they live than people who beat someone over the head but 63 million Americans prefer reality tv to Ted tv.
2
Can he or will he?
There is a vast difference.
1
Trump can, and will, claim anything. "Mission Accomplished" set a rather low bar...
Or:
"'When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’
“Through the Looking Glass”, by Lewis Carroll, which is also apropos, now that I think about it.
2
Seems like Kim is playing Trump for a fool and Trump is getting sucked right in.
4
As a brutal dictator whose population is suffering, Kim will never give up his nuclear leverage.
It says more about the shocking naivete of Trump than the purported irrationality of Kim that Trump would ever assume to the contrary.
If they give a Nobel prize for stupidity, Mr. President, then you have a puncher's chance.
Otherwise, I'd stop posing for your statue until the game is over if I were you.
7
Funny headline. Of COURSE he can. Of COURSE he will.
And sad that I headline like this even gets written.
And sad that when he does claim victory you guys will be right there lapping it up with another ridiculous headline.
2
Trump is going to make the deal of the century. Kim will be able to keep nukes, but he'll promise not to use them. Really. We will save big money because we will not have to maintain troops on the peninsula. The sanctions won't be a problem anymore thanks to the Trump Golf Course and Villas on the outskirts of Pyongyang. There will be a theme park on the DMZ that sells Trump/Kim souvenirs designed by Ivanka herself. It's a win, win.
2
"Mr. Kim is likely to demand a clear guarantee that the United States would never attack"
Kim Jong Un is repulsive, but he appears to know how to gain sympathy and support from people who have misgivings about the United States. I'm sure Kim has studied the lives of those miserable, depressed, alcoholism-afflicted Native Americans living on isolated tribal reservations in the U.S.--the descendants of tribal leaders who were unfortunately naive enough in the 19th century to sign peace treaties with the U.S. government that were shortly thereafter violated with glee by Washington.
Kim Jong Un is a first-rate showman, as his meeting with President Moon of South Korea showed. In the coming weeks, look for the North Korean government's mouthpiece to ask the world's people if they believe the U.S. government is any more likely to stick to the terms of a "non-aggression pact" than Nazi Germany was when the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact with the Soviet Union was signed in August 1939 (for those who don't know their history, Germany violated that pact less than two years later in June 1941 by carrying out the biggest land invasion in the history of warfare against the USSR).
In response to that publicly aired question, I'll bet you at least a lot of Native Americans will publicly or privately say "No way."
1
I have to give it to Trump, the previous presidents never thought of declaring victory where there is none and then get a significant section of the population to believe it. That is an achievement, in the art of propaganda. It also shows a near complete lack of respect for his base but do not expect the base to notice.
In reality, the president's obsession about having the meeting with North Korea succeed and talk of a Nobel peace prize have given North Korea tremendous leverage. They know that Trump really really badly wants to declare peace and success with North Korea's "honorable" leadership.
20
Let's be clear, the only reason Kim is coming to the table is because he got what he has been working on for years, nuclear missiles. tRumps tough guy rhetoric had nothing to do with NK's move towards talks. Can the NYT please stop giving any credence to this lame story that serves only to bolster his base. It's laughable to think tRump can claim some sort of victory. Kim will agree to what he already planned on doing, and we will get nothing of substance.
6
I think the only thing we can rely on from Trump is lies, more lies, and deception.
A disgrace.
5
North Korea will never give up nuclear arms. Crazy Un, rich dictator diaper baby was “well educated” in his money fueled secret education. His meeting with Crazy Trump will be historic. Meeting of a murderous repressive dictator with our baby Huey President who wants to anything he wants beyond the law and is toxic to us all is likely leading to an agreement to respect the border and not attack or invade. Trump the king of liars who admits “he makes things up as he goes” will proclaim his high ratings.
4
First, make the distinction between "can" and "may".
Any English educator will tell you that "can" denotes "being ABLE to" while "may" denotes "being PERMITTED to".
SO....."can" Trump still claim victory if Kim keeps his nukes? Of course he "can", just as he "can" claim his inauguration was the biggest and best ever or how unassailable anything he says or does is anything other than the truth.
However, "may" he claim it? No, not with the slightest shred of legitimacy. No he may not, not without running face first into a few inconvenient truths, such as the Mueller investigation really IS legitimate, that all his department secretaries were installed to GUT the departments they were installed to head, or that his every syllable is a self-serving perversion.
3
Trump's only "victory" will be to legitimize a ruthless dictator who has been shunned by the rest of the world. That's NOT a victory that helps America and the few allies we have left in the world.
2
You've been had Trump. You are pathetic. Huff and puff.
3
Total denuclearization is off the table with the current set of incentives dangled in front of North Korea. We just need to put a few more skittles out for them to snack on.
1
Trump has already failed by agreeing to meet with NK without pre-conditions; a violation of US foreign policy several administrations old.
1
If Mr Kim still has his nuclear weapons ready to strike tge US or Japan, then he outsmarted Trump. If that hsppens, Japan must develop a nuclear capability to twart threats from North Korea. That will force China to get the Koreans to eliminate their nuclear threat to Japan and the US.
3
When Trump makes tough definitive statements it is only aimed at his base, they have short memories. Others must conclude either he does not understand the gravity of his declarations or he does understand but needs the bluster for his appearance on FOX.
I will admit he has talents but international diplomacy requires an historical perspective and a tweetless aproach for success, he has neither ability.
I’m interested to see if Trump walks away gracefully as he said he would if his criteria of a nuclear free North Korea was not going to happen.
He makes it extremely hard to claim success even if he could.
His base in interesting to watch. I check out Breitbart comments regularly and they go something like this.
Two weeks ago, everyone was chanting Nobel, Nobel because there was talk of a talk.
Now? The same people are saying, "after they gave it to Obama, it has no meaning and who would want one anyway".
They have long memories. Ask Hillary about Benghazi:)
But their values seem to shift like sand.
"...Walks away...", perhaps.
"...Walks away GRACEFULLY...", not a snowball's chance!!! We haven't had that spirit here since what feels to have been forever!
Miss ya Barack...
"Can Trump Still Claim Victory?"
Are you kidding?!!!!
Trump claims credit for everything, often on both sides.
Maybe you meant "Can Trump Still Legitimately Claim Victory?"
2
No one on the right bothers to challenge the absurdity of the premise: that North Korea would suddenly abandon its decades-long nuclear ambition because Trump uttered "rocket man" and "fire and fury." It is painfully clear that Kim saw an opportunity to finally get on the same stage as the US president by exploiting Trump's narcissism. Thus, Kim has already won. No, Kim will not denuclearize. But yes, he will make empty promises and probably get sanctions lessened; and Trump and his right-wing state media will claim victory.
179
Nice, thoughtful article that tends to offset some of the more inflammatory headlines we've read here lately on Korea.
While it doesn't bluntly state so, the reality it describes astutely outlines the fallacy of believing that nuclear weapons provide security. Against even a state with a very limited nuclear arsenal, the 1,000s of US weapons provide little real security, at least as reflected by the fears expressed about Kim's potential use of his tiny stockpile.
Yes, even a single, sloppily targeted North Korean weapon would be disastrous if it fell in North America. The result would the end of North Korea, post haste. In the end, deterrence is the only practical use of nuclear weapons and the uncertainties stirred by the North's acquisition demonstrate the practical limits of it. It's benefits are more political than practical.
Most practical of all would be to start with verifying the announced freezing of the North's program and ending its capacity to produce fissile material.
The catch in all this is whether Trump ultimately seeks mutual understanding for the benefit of all or whether the real goal is overthrowing Kim. The rise of John Bolton from washed-up Cold Warrior to Trump's NSC chief is worrisome in that regard, as it may not matter what concessions Kim may make if he is unwilling to surrender. The public good of diplomacy is incremental, requiring give and take. Does Trump have what it takes to drive such a bargain? Maybe, but with advisors like Bolton?
4
Many of Trumps critics were concerned about the cancellation of the Iran deal and the affect it would have on the Korean talks. Not to worry. Kim has no intention of getting rid of his nuclear weapons and has no interest in whether Trump will stick to his bargain or not. He just wants a meeting to see if he can roll Trump. If he can't, nothing lost. If he can, he can reach an agreement, get what he can out of Trump and then back out on one pretext or another when the agreement is no longer to his advantage.
2
NK has nukes, they tested them and they have ICBMs. While expanding their arsenal, they pretend to talk but why on Earth would Kim get rid of the source of his power? All they have to do now is invest in some Trumplestilzkin hotel and they are safe, anyway, for moment.
4
Trump would find a way to claim victory even if North Korea bombed Seattle. And his followers and feckless GOP leadership would fall right in line.....
12
Of course, he will claim victory, and his supporters and FOX News will spin it like we have never before seen, well almost have never before seen. Just as they still chant," Lock her up," they will rally around their flag of hypocrisy and cry, "Nobel Peace Prize!"
I may just eat my words, but I can not foresee Kim relinquishing under any circumstance his desperate aspiration to be a nuclear power. The apple does not fall far from the tree when one recalls his ruthless and devious father. Just as we are witnessing with China and trade, Trump is no match for the leader of North Korea. As corrupt as this president seems to be, he is an amateur on the world stage not only in diplomacy but also of intrigue.
5
The question is CAN Trump still claim victory? Not WILL he, folks. But it's specious nonetheless. Trump's idea of victory is all about him. It's not about a good result for the world. He's a narcissist, so this "giving him the benefit of the doubt"* that's always happening on the front page of this newspaper is just playing into his hands. Stop asking useless questions like this!
*see Michelle Goldberg's column of yesterday.
4
Whether he legitimately can or not, he will. And that beats him being catastrophically stupid. Which, of course, is always still possible.
2
Trump forgot to tell loudmouth John Bolton to keep his trap shut.
This administration are the gang that couldn't shoot straight, undermining, boobytrapping and ruining everything they attempt.
No brains. No class.
2
Gotta hand it to Trump :
'phony machismo' is more important than intelligence, experience, or compassion. Just like on tv.
Denuclearization was never going to happen. The best we can hope for is some sort of de-escalation. I expect if we get a deal with them, Trump will make a lot of concessions. I believe the sudden willingness to negotiate is a result of NK and China recognizing that Trump is inexperienced and desperate for acclaim so there’s much more he’ll agree to. They’re at the table because they know this is the best opportunity they’ve had in a very long time and it won’t come again any time soon. That said, I’d rather we move towards peace with a less than ideal agreement than saber rattle our way into nuclear war. It would be very nice to see at least one good thing come out of this dumpster fire of an administration.
2
Of course there will be a victory declared. In lieu of denuclearization look for it in the form of the new Pyongyang Trump Tower joint venture as an interim step.
4
...and Kim will pay for it...
1
Look. What's more important: denuclearizing the Korean Peninsula or a Trump tower in North Korea? Get your priorities straight.
Are you going to let him claim victory?
1
If Kim Jong-Un gives up his nuclear arms he could end up like Qaddafi, Hussein and Rouhani.
If Mr. Kim keeps his nuclear arms he could end up like Netanyahu.
Mr. Kim rationally and reasonably wants to remain alive and in power.
If North and South Korea sign a peace treaty Trump can claim victory.
North Korea must denuclearize.
If Ukraine can denuclearize, then North Korea can denuclearize. NK as repeatedly threatened their neighbors, NATO and the US. They repeatedly entice the US into talks and repeatedly break their promises.
I totally support Trump's tough talk on North Korea, including threats of military action against them.
The problem will only get worse and it is completely unacceptable to kick the can down the road as if that does anything.
1
You don't think Trump will sell you out and sell the United States out for some good Media? Good luck with that.
2
Are you Draft age?
1
Trump can claim victory even while the rockets from North Korea are falling on Japan. The man has no sense of right and wrong.
2
Trump is on tv right now talking and talking and talking some more about what he thinks about Kim Jong Un. He didn't learn that his constant talking about Kim over the past year has actually made the summit less likely and more problematic. Trump just can't shut up about anything, even when there's evidence it hurts him. Forget hurting our country. Everything Trump does is in pursuit of glory and money for himself. He has absolutely no concern for anyone but himself. That makes his constant drama and endless yakking even more painful.....
2
Un was never going to denuclearize his nation. The only thing keeping him in power is the nuclear power he already has and who really thought he would get rid of the only thing keeping him in power or alive. His plan was to have the president meet with him to legitimize his power, and that is going to happen in Singapore this month. He will give nothing to Mr. Trump other than empty promises. Mr. Trump has so poisoned our position in the Pacific that no one will support anything he wants. The Chinese now only see working with him as what can we get without giving anything back. Un will work with China and at some point the Russians and give up nothing. If Mr. Trump is only looking for a peace prize shame on him. Because to do that he will have to sell out the US and give up everything that the past 5 administrations were too smart to give up.
I remember Trump grousing about Pres. Obama not getting the red carpet treatment when he attended the G-20 summit in China. Trump declared had it been him, he would have closed the doors and jetted away. I think the writing on the wall indicates there is quite a gulf between Trump's grandiose denuclearization outline and the probable rejection of such by Mr. Kim. Should the Singapore summit happen, per his hints, it would surprise me if Trump isn't already planning a dramatic early exit to display his machismo, It will be reminiscent of Trump sending Pence to a SF 49er NFL game with the express intention of walking out during the expected anthem protest. That unfortunate display cost taxpayers $250K, while this expected protest will cost millions. But worse, it could remove the smallest vestiges of goodwill created so far.
1
The author suggests that not destroying the world counts as victory.
Remember when the Times had standards? Sigh.
Trump will claim victory, no matter what comes out of the talks. "We signed the greatest deal the world has ever seen in the history of mankind! Everyone said it cannot be done. They were all wrong! Where is my Nobel! This is bigger Nobel , much bigger than Obama's" That will be his exact words!!!
1
Trump will claim victory by walking out because he won’t get full denuclearization from Kim.
By walking out he’ll show his base what a tough and strong negotiator he is.
And he’ll further prove what we’ve known all along.
There’s nothing there. It’s all a performance to him.
20
The performance art of a deal.
1
Concerns regarding President Trump's negotiation skills, knowledge base, and imagination as thery relate to North Korea are overblown. I am confident that when President Trump returns from Singapore he will bring with him the text of a treaty committing the United States to:
1) withdraw all American troops and arms from South Korea;
2) reduce American forces in Japan to those necessary to guard the American Embassy;
3) remove all economic sanctions against North Korea;
4) provide North Korea "most favored nation" status for its exports to the United States;
5) permit duty-free importation of building materials and furnishings from any American hotel/office building constructed in North Korea;
6) limit to three the number of North Korean military bases permitted on U.S. soil.
Peace in our time!
11
Hope you are right. I suspect Kim will do much better.
"Mr. Kim is likely to demand a clear guarantee that the United States would never attack, as well as quick relief from international sanctions."
Did we not give similar guarantees to Qaddafi?
A deal with DPRK is very possible though as compared to Iran because of sole irritant of Mid-East politics, Israel is not in the area. Any reasonable deal with North would work as it is going to be better than 2017. I do hope that Mr. trump would use some qualified State Department bureaucrats to provide information on Koreas and their motivation. I also hope and wish Mr. trump doesn't rely on his GUT but rely on Facts.
3
No matter what type of defeat Trump encountered, he would always call it a victory. Witness his multiple bankruptcies. The more he talked about them, the more one thinks they were by design.
12
If Trump really though that North Korea would get rid of their existing atomic bombs and the delivery systems then Trump is a bigger idiot that I though. North Korea may, in exchange to ending the US' economic boycott, agree to end their research and production of atomic weapons, but they will never give them up.
7
"Trump is a bigger idiot than you thought?" Wow, you're an optimist! Trump could never exceed my expectations of his idiocy.
2
Trump is a bigger idiot than you thought. He also doesn't care if we are at the wrong end of a nuclear attack. As long as Kim doesn't hit a Trump property, he;ll be fine with it.
I assume the Nobel Prize committee is a bit more discerning than is Mr. Trump's base and they will not be so easily conned. Moon deserves consideration as much as Trump does. He at least has done a lot more towards peace on the Korean peninsula than just sending out a couple of bellicose tweets. And as long as Trump has Bolton by his side, rattling swords, Trump does not deserve a peace prize.
1
Kim Jong Un could get Mr. Trump to withdraw US troops from the Korean peninsula; completely denuclearize; let North Korea ransack the US Treasury; etc and "our president" would still claim victory. Or blame Obama. They are one in the same to this "dealmaker".
9
No.
The agreement--as underscored time and again by Trump, Pompeo, and Bolton-- was for complete denuclearization.
Nothing less said Trump.
Again, and again, and again.
15
Like better bigger cheaper health care
What a crooked swamp dwelling politician
2
Yeah, but his supporters don't care about what he said, or their memories have been totally addled by Fox and the right-wing media. Examples:
On the wall: Trump said again and again, Mexico would pay for it. But has instead pushed for Congress to include funding for his wall, from American taxpayers, in their budget.
Health care: Trump said he would repeal "Obamacare" on day one and provide Americans with "beautiful health care." Result: Crickets, and continued undermining of the ACA, with absolutely no replacement in sight.
China: Trump accused them of being a currency manipulator, taking away American jobs, threatened to levy tariffs against them, etc. But lo and behold, as soon as China invests $500 mill. in a Trump project, well, we'll have to delay those tariffs and save the ZTE firm, won't we?
Fox will probably turn this around to say that Trump never wanted denuclearization. A firm handshake with Kim Jong-un and a nice photo-op was all they ever wanted.
Trump will continue to pretend that he's the greatest negotiator ever, his sole talking point about himself when The Art of the Deal was ghostwritten for him by Tony Schwartz. But, as Wikipedia points out, "according to Schwartz, Trump wrote none of the book, choosing only to remove a few critical mentions of business colleagues at the end of the process."
In the 1980s, Trump always left the serious negotiations to professionals handpicked by his father. He won't have that option with Kim Jong-Un, a genuine and savvy dealmaker who's already gotten major concessions out of Trump without having to give anything up. Trump is no world leader, and he's a lousy negotiator, too.
4
If Kim Jong-un Keeps His Nuclear Arms, Can Trump Still Claim Victory? What a question! Trump would claim victory if Kim Jong-un nuked New York and reduced it to smoldering ash, citing all the places in the US Kim hadn't nuked yet as proof of his successful strategy.
23
He would if the TV ratings were good.
It will be a victory of a sort. We'll probably get the best outcome that is now possible. That is, the best outcome that China will allow. Once Trump took up the North Korea issue, the only outcomes were going to be bad or worse.
The final result is likely to be a loss of confidence in us by South Korea and Japan, lost ground in the push to denuclearize the North Korea, lost ground in the push for human rights, increased legitimacy for Kim Jung Un, and increased influence for China. That's all bad, but nuclear war is worse.
That's how Trump has achieved "success" throughout his life. Whenever he brought another business to bankruptcy, his creditors had no choice but to bail him out at their own expense, and enriching Trump in the process. Because to not do so would have been even worse.
We've heard of Pyrrhic Victories. Now we have Trumpian Victory.
2
“You’re not getting rid of the weapons, but putting yourself on the path where someday they might not be needed."
The world continues to suffer from the effects of colonialization. Korea was divided after Japan was ousted from control following its defeat in WWII. Unfortunately, it was treated as "spoils" to the victors, with the dividing line determined without Korean input. In the ideological wars that followed, diametrically opposed regimes were "supported" (communist in the North, supported by Russia, and democratic in the South, supported by the US). That ensured a location for the inevitable proxy wars that are the hallmark of ideological opponents.
Whether the nuclear program in the North is or has at one time been supported by Russia or China, it is clear to the North that without nuclear weapons, they remain a likely battleground in a world where they are not sovereign. It is only because of their weapons, tests, and bluster that they have any say whatsoever in their fate. Therefore, it would be foolish to believe that they would budge.
I agree that Trump will sell it to his supporters as a victory no matter what comes of it, and they will buy it. Bizarre.
1
We know he will claim victory no matter what the outcome - meet/not meet/nuclear hostilities/war... It's all the same in the fact-free Regime.
4
The simple answer is clearly
-------NO!!-------
President Dennison made it crystal clear that Lil Kim has to deconstruct his weapons and delivery systems.
It is crystal clear that Lil Kim is not going to do that,
especially after Bolton announcing the Libya model.
The only gambit left,
the only way to avoid failure,
is to delay.
This forecloses failure and maintains the drama value
for the Godot Summit.
3
NO, he can't!
Plan: Verifiable freeze on A-Bomb and Rocket development and arms export; Link specific reductions to increases in NK GDP levels.
If Kim Jong-Un gives Trump a chocolate birthday cake, Trump will declare it a victory. "Obama never got a birthday cake from Kim, much less a chocolate one."
1
Oh our Trumpet wants a Nobel Prize so badly he'll say anything that he thinks will work.
1
Trump is such a narcissist, he will claim victory no matter how dim the denuclearization prospects are. And further, he will demand constant attention to the issue for his ill-deserving Noble peace prize. Vulgar Trump lacks the humility to realize that not everything is about him, that he is not irreplaceable, as his 'virtues' are mostly a glorious vanity only explainable by stupidity. The day he is removed from office will be a true liberation from his despotic claws of irrelevancy. And 'good riddance' may be reason to celebrate, as reason and justice may return to their rightful place, and where honor and decency shines again. For now though, Trump's ego trip is ongoing, drunk with undeserved power to do harm. And Kim Jong-un is laughing already, as flattery will allow to pocket Trump and his pompous nonsense.
1
That's got to be the silliest headline of the year. trump ALWAYS claims victory no matter what the outcome is.
The real question is, "how will trump describe his victory when the whole world knows he lost"? Because we all know that Kim has no intention of giving up his nukes. His ego is as big as trump's and he's smarter. And possibly crazier.
1
Mr Trump's agenda is simply about how well he can grow and burnish the Trump brand. Operational effectiveness, objective progress and strategic thinking are not relevant criteria. For him.
Therefore, he will have meeting, and he will do whatever it takes to get a meeting, as that will be the raw material he and his staff will use to create a narrative of "winning." Trump has already given away many of the key bargaining chips he has in order to keep the show moving forward. His dysfunctional staff (i.e., Bolton) may still blow it all up (metaphorically, we hope), but we'll likely get the meeting and the pronouncements of "winning."
I suspect that the Chinese government will have Mr. Trump on a string over the entire affair, so he can point to some facsimile of success.
2
The man thinks he deserves a Nobel Peace Prize for agreeing to a meeting that has not even happened. If he expects the greatest recognition for the least accomplishment, then he should be roundly criticized--garbage should be heaped on him!--for any result short of complete and immediate denuclearization.
2
Why are we worried about whether Trump can claim victory? Why isn't the story about what Kim keeping nukes would look like for world peace? Can't we start thinking of us all being on one team - the team that works toward global peace and prosperity - rather than expending time, energy and newsprint on tearing each other down? Plus, we all know that no matter what the facts say, Trump will claim victory so why don't we just move on to issues that actually warrant our attention?
12
A single nuclear weapon making its way onto the black market would make strategic patience the most costly diplomatic bet ever made. North Korea has consistently demonstrated an unending capacity to buy and sell weapons technology on the black market irrespective of any agreements or talk of peace. Any weapons expert will tell you we have yet to develop a foolproof way to detect a single weapon snuck into central Tokyo, London or LA, let alone less advanced countries. Trust and verify would require direct human occupation of every weapons storage site. Without this level of guaranteed weapons security, any treaty not requiring total denuclearization will be completely worthless.
5
"analysts said even a vague deal could be more desirable than a return to the rising tensions of last year."
So we're supposed to feel good about Crazy Eddie giving us half off the TV he just doubled the price on? (And yes, Crazy Eddie could be either Kim or Trump.)
33
It’s not the weapons but whether they’re deliverable that counts.
And whether NK will sell nukes and missiles to Iran which promises to annihilate Israel while the Europeans and UN go ho hum.
Curtailing further development of ICBM abilities would be a “win”.
Iran showed everyone “inspections’ are meaningless if military sights are off limits.
So far only the US and Russians have extensive inventories of ICBMs. Be nice to keep it that way. No one is concerned about Pakistan’s unstable government and it s nuclear arsenal poised to destroy India.
2
I'd like to see how Trump can struck a better deal with North Korea than Obama did with Iran. At best, he is likely to achieve the same result of a postponement of nuclearization. But of course, he will not admit that the Iran deal had the same terms. All that matters for him is to have his name written in history books as the only US president to hold a meeting with a N.Korean leader.
4
Of course. Trump is not constrained nor is he held to truth telling. His followers are the ultimate in magical thinkers, assuming they think as opposed to having unfounded thoughts. Trump can claim anything he wants. He can claim a Nobel prize before it is given out. We have a pathetic, spoiled, foolish, spiteful man for president who has not made this country better. He has showed the depth of ignorance or greed among Americans. I have given up on the US being anything but 3rd rate,
3
POTUS has given us a clue to this dynamic situation
by tweeting on 5/21 that it is necessary for
the PRC to keep their border with NK tight until an
agreement is signed. Do we read between the lines
that China has eased up on sanctions pressure against
N.K. which may explain a possible N.K. turnabout?
If so, is the PRC signaling that settlement of the
Korean nuclear question must be part of a grand
bargain to address resolution of broader Sino-America
issues to include trade . Did we overreach in assuming
that N.K. could deal on its own? I am concerned that
readers are allowing a 'Manichean' view of the Trump Administration to infect their view of foreign policy
issues. I lean to Robert M. Gates' view that the tactical unpredictability that POTUS employed to break up the Korean log-jam is commendable. He also observes that strategic unpredictability in a great power is not wise. I believe it is wrong to find fault with each and every
decision of this Administration based solely on a
deep-rooted general animus.
We understand that Trump will claim victory no matter the outcome, he never admits anything else. Ought Trump claim victory if the nuclear arms are not destroyed along with the means to get them, possibly, if the likelihood of them being used becomes both unlikely and predictable. But Trump is not one to prepare for anything as demanding as these kinds of negotiations, so his success rate in office has tended to be about the same as a random walk, strictly chance whenever he is directing the efforts.
1
Trump still has chance to receive a CONFUCIUS PEACE PRIZE, shared with Kim and Moon.
2
“If you just sign a treaty because it sounds Nobel Peace Prize-worthy, but you don’t address the threat, then you’ve created a more dangerous situation.”
This is exactly what Trump plans to do. The mess will be left to later administrations.
“The reality is that the summit will be a success because Trump will package, sell, and call it a success to his supporters.”
This is exactly what Trump supporters are counting on. There's just one small problem: Trump. The man is in way over his head. We heard the first rumors of this dawning realization emerge from the White House last week. Trump is weighing the political benefit of breaking off talks versus the risks of overwhelming embarrassment in North Korea. From a photo op perspective, Trump might be better off making up some fake grievance and walking away.
4
No, but Trump will...and he will demand the Peace Prize to boot!
2
It's never wise to dance in the end zone before a touchdown has been scored.
127
emphasis on "wise", which dt has never shown an iota of being ...
4
Well, come on, IOKIYAT. It's OK if you are "Trump". He'll dance whenever he wants to and the media will be there to ogle him.
Actual touchdowns, as in accomplishments, meaning actual concrete, bank-able, for reals accomplishments are rare as hen's teeth in the "Trump" con show. Does not mean for a minute he won't be dancing or whatever, cuz apparently enuf people don't care about real things anymore.
4
Just like the Obamacare repeal that didn't happen, spiking the ball on the 50 yard line. Also known as a fumble.
4
Khadaffi ended up dead after he gave up his nuclear weapons, and Western nations including us ensured his defeat.
There is no way that North Korea will give up their nukes, as our present administration has just broken our agreement with Iran. Please also remember a bloodthirsty Hillary was cheering for defeat of Khadaffi which had to include killing him, and I remember her jumping out of her chair supporting our invasion of Iraq. So if I were Kim I would not trust Republicans or Democrats.
As much as I dislike Trump, it will be victory if they promise not to use their nukes in response for lifting sanctions and so on. It will be good if they stop threatening to use them, and draw a peace agreement with South Korea. Get real, there is no better deal possible. Or would you prefer that both Kim and Trump keep talking about their buttons?
1
Trump will claim victory if the North invades the South and takes over the entire peninsula. He'll call it reunification and blame the other presidents for not thinking of it first. The other day he remarked that he thought it was funny that other people would try to tell him how to handle NK. They didn't know that he had already forged the coin to commemorate whatever happens.
2
NKorea has nothing of importance except
the nuclear weapons. These are their safety
blanket. To give these up for a vague promise
of economic aid will be foolish for Kim Jong-Un
particularly knowing the capriciousness of
Trump. The focus of media and statements
from government officials have been
on denuclearization but not much of what
USA will offer that is credible and acceptable
to NKorea. The summit on 12th of June
will clarify.
2
No one can force Kim to give up his nukes. Sanctions won't work if North Korea is willing to maintain its dependency on China. Kim's bargaining price for his nukes will be astronomically high. Are the US, Japan, and South Korea willing to pay it?
4
All Trump ever cares about is optics. He would declare victory even if there was a knife sticking out of his back. He is like the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
35
Trump will declare himself the equal of Lincoln and FDR, then have a meltdown somewhere over the Pacific as Mueller issues his next swath of indictments.
3
Can he claim victory ? There is no doubt that he will no matter what the outcome will be. This is a bombastic blowhard who would never admit that he did not achieve what he said he would. If the negotiations go sideways, Trump will find a scapegoat ( s) to blame. It will be the job of the media and others to deliver the truth. Trump will rely , as he usually does, on “ alternative facts “ to satisfy his base.
3
One, a "deal" will not be made. Starting agreements on this scale will be little steps. Mr Kim first just wants to meet this clown from America.
Mr Kim will most likely spin Mr Trump in circles till he is dizzy. Hopefully, experienced US advisors will re-interpret whatever Mr Trump says to safeguard our nation.
If a deal is not made, Mr Trump will blame Mr Kim for being timid...followed by blaming Robert Mueller, the Democrats, the CIA, FBI, Obama, all previous presidents, the Clinton conspiracy, James Comey, Iran, China, the neighborhood dog catcher - you get the drift. Oh, I forgot the Kilauea volcano.
6
If Kim Jong-un gets to keep his nukes and Trump continues to "negotiate " with him then Trump is not the winner, but just a chump who get taken in by a better con man then him.
29
Now the question is how Mr. Trump will redefine success, if the summit meeting actually takes place as planned.
donald claims success for the sun rising in the east and setting in the west.
9
Yes, and after meeting with Kim he will take credit for the sun rising in the West and setting in the East and anyone who is saying the opposite is just spreading fake news.
2
Don and Kim can make a deal in Singapore because what's good for one is also good for the other. A fair deal- as follows.
If, for some reason, they can't close the deal in Singapore,
they agree that both sides then revert to the "Libya Model."
Bolton and the U.S. are already prepared for that so Kim just has to improve his method of delivery.
This is what happens when John Bolton comes upon the scene.
1
Remember, Donald is the the Three-Card Monte dealer who claimed victory in lowering America's sky-high prescription drug prices by suggesting other countries raise their drug prices and by ignoring Medicare's price-negotiation powers !!
You couldn't come up with a worse fake solution to a real problem.
We can count on Donald to 'win' again with North Korea by doing nothing or worse and claiming Down Is Up.
Make America A Stupid Trump Show !
209
I'm to go with NO!
7
Of course he will claim a "Bigly" victory. It will be Huge. He will also lie and say this is what he promised in the first place and chalk up another of his "wins".
When it is pointed out he has lied again he will declare a witch hunt.
Lie, Lie and Obfuscate.
62
Contrary to what many in the press believe, this is not a one shot deal. The issues involved are complex, and the people involved are, to be polite, "quirky." We have already achieved a major goal: The rush to an armed confrontation has been stopped.
Both Trump and Kim will join a long list of politicians who declared 'victory' and moved on. The press will spend a day or two hyperventilating over winners and losers, then find another 'sparkly' and move on as well. After that, the real work of negotiating a working agreement with North Korea will proceed.
2
Bruce--"Who knew" how "complicated" negotiations with NK could be? Certainly not dumbbell tRump. It has to be easy, or he can't handle it.
9
LOL. "We have already achieved a major goal: The rush to an armed confrontation has been stopped." Really?!? The rush to armed conflict was created by Trump! He doesn't get to claim credit for fixing a problem that he created. All he did was stop creating the problem.
Jim,
I am not concerned with 'credit,' I am concerned with millions of people dying, which is what would happen if the US and NK went to war. That danger has receded, it has not gone away, but is less much less likely now. That to me is a 'win.'
Of course he will claim victory. Trump will claim victory if he comes away from talks with Kim with absolutely nothing to show for it. After all, he had the biggest inauguration ever. The question is this: When The Nobel Committee later this year awards its Peace Prize to someone other than Trump, will he demand and investigation as to why he, the rightful recipient, was not chosen?
260
Didn't ya hear? Obama stole Trump's Nobel Prize.
14
We know what will happen. He'll claim he turned them down.
18
He entered a can of "whirled peas" and though he should get the peas prize.
Good thing he did not send a can of creamed corn.
8
Many of us are not surprised, saw this coming from just a little bit of knowledge about N. Korea's past antics, and the lack of preparedness, as well as disdain of preparedness, of the current administration. I also can't be suprised, just dismayed, at the lack of even minimal critical thinking of the administration and its supporters who didn't see this would be the outcome - this isn't rocket science, just requires paying a little bit of attention over time, enough to remember.
Of course Trump will try to spin this, not just a little but a lot along the lines of "the only president ever" who blah blah blah, play up sanctions more than what they are, talk tough but do little, play the victim, blame others etc.
11
I think every nation on earth should have their own nuclear weapons as a deterrent, what better way to render them moot and useless. Anybody ever hear of piranhas eating each other? But we have them just in case Gort returns.
2
Mr, "Doe"
What you say about nuclear weapons is true.
Not only that, but because of growing technology around the world,most countries will have nuclear weapons and probably sooner than later.
Most Americans have difficulty handling this truth so let's hope that your piranhas story is true and works the same with humans.
If Trump gets anything short of stopping North Korea from putting thermo- nuclear weapons over our cities he has failed.
What a ridiculous question, of course he will claim victory. Like everything, there is no need for facts, just say it and it is true, that is how Trump plays his cards and his followers believe him no matter what and the Republican party stands behind him, even though they know he is a fool and danger to the country. I blame the Republican party for all this insanity as they have clearly put Party over Country no matter what is said and done by Trump.
38
At some point they will show him the door, realizing Pence is a better deal. And that fall will be at a speed above and beyond gravity. Like jet pack assisted.
For now they are just hoping the Dems get the credit for deposing him. But it will happen. The question is what he will break before he is shown the door. I do hope the White House managers replaced the crystal and silver with the backups. I just wish we could do the same for everything else he touches.
1
Here is Kim's list of demands:
A peace treaty.
Full recognition of North Korea.
An agreement by the US that the Kim family is the sole legitimate ruler of North Korea and that the US will not seek regime change.
A full lifting of all economic sanctions.
No complaints about the treatment of the North Korean people.
The withdrawal of US troops from South Korea.
Here is what Kim will give:
A promise not to nuke the US.
And Trump will agree to all this, claim victory, and look for his Peace Prize in the mail.
106
He will also get a property deal somewhere.
1
No of course not. All trump has managed to do is give Un exactly what he wanted. A sitting president has called him honorable, and now he gets to have a show of power when he walks away from the table. That's years worth of propaganda gold.
26
Name ONE time when he hasn't " claimed victory ". Things are different in Trumpland. And NOT in a good way.
111
The two main risks to Trump's Victory Parade appear to be 1. any deal has to as tough as Iran's deal. 2. anything less than an agreement to pursue short term Complete, Verifiable, Irreversible Denuking will be percieved as a failure.
And then there is Xi, who would love to see Trump go home embarrassed.
Trump already blew it by being so eager to get a Nobel. He may be walking right into a trap. It sure looks like one to me.
92
No, I fear Xi is happy to see Trump blunder along, and most his overseas adversaries are hoping for a second term.
6
This has always been all about him and his current Holy Grail, the Nobel Peace Prize, NOT about the world's peace and security.
34
What happens to this dead end if China, through North Korea, demands that the United States rejoin the Iranian nuclear agreement? China may use its influence over North Korea to help its friend Iran. In addition, in doing so, China may gain favor with U.S. allies while, at the same time, embarrassing the U.S.
But might all parties gain something? North Korea has nothing to lose by this outcome and may get a deal to its liking with the West. Trump's ego may be so far into getting agreement with North Korea that he wouldn't turn back — meaning, to its substantial benefit, the U.S. would rejoin the Iranian nuclear agreement and, in addition, get a deal with North Korea.
In short, China may, for it's considerable advantage, try to link the Iranian nuclear and the North Korean deals, which, in turn, might just benefit everyone.
1
Well, he can claim whatever he wants, but he would be claiming victory inappropriately if he doesn't get a denuclearization commitment, since that's the goal his administration set for these talks.
It might be reasonable to bargain with North Korea for less. But it doesn't look like the administration is going to get anything substantive for this, at least not anything that binds North Korea. We've basically conceded to a longstanding North Korean desire for direct talks with the US without getting a commitment for much of anything in return.
It's like the Jerusalem Embassy deal. Whatever you think about where the US should have its embassy in Israel, Israel's government has wanted the US to recognize Jerusalem as its capital for some time. There are things the US wants Israel to do, and recognizing Jerusalem as its capital is a bargaining chip to get them to do those things. Again, the Trump administration is so ideological that it actually gets nothing for giving up longstanding carrots that the US could dangle in front of foreign governments. Whatever political persuasion you have, this isn't good diplomacy, because it's not an effective strategy to realize any diplomatic end the country might have.
9
Not only did the US get nothing for the embassy in Jerusalem, it signalled to Israel that the US was in its pocket. Trump doesn't have to do any homework, make any hard decisions or anger his base because he has given carte blanche to Netanyahu.
3
No politician ever, in any country, in any century has ever said their own economic negotiations were a failure. Of course he will claim a success. The subject is so fuzzy and the impact so time vague that making the claim is not news. The impact might be.
3