I dont believe in God so I dont have prayers, just thoughts . I'm a gun owner and I own an AR-15. I agree with almost every gun control law. I'd even give up my AR-15 if the police demilitarized as well.
I dont agree with repealing the second amendment. Quite frankly, gun owners aren't idiots. We are not deluded. We all didnt vote for Trump. For example, I am a transgender woman who is armed for a valid reason. Transgender women happen to be brutally murdered in this country quite often, and I live in a rural area with cops that are 30 min away. I own a gun and it does make me safer. I know because I've had to brandish my gun to prevent a sexual assault and it worked. I was also educated at MIT and voted for Jill Stein last year.
I know that the only gun control measure that could have prevented this shooting is the repeal of the second amendment. Not all school shootings need a reflexive rush to judgement on guns. By doing so you show gun owners that your goal isnt gun control but rather the repeal of the 2nd amendment.
There is a logical and reasonable argument for more security. You know what would have stopped this kid? A metal detector and a security guard at the single entrance to the school.
Gun control measures take time to work. Even if the 2nd amendment was repealed tomorrow there would be 300 million guns in this nation. I think it's entirely sane and logical to want more security at schools and take them off the list of feasible targets for teens with guns
1
Thoughts and prayers. Thoughts and prayers. Keep thinking, and keep praying. Until we do something else, the praying will be needed. Sure like to see the gun control people become as single-mindedly anti-gun voting as the NRA thralls are pro-gun. Its not about "freedom" - except my freedom to walk in public, be at a mall, school, church, or office without fear of being shot at, or killed. I don't have that "freedom" now. Why do you have the "freedom" to buy all the guns you want, carry them wherever you want, and scare all the rest of us? Its not "making us safer" - all the guns are killing us. No thinking person (thoughts) has a prayer of not understanding that more guns equals more gun violence, and there are way too many guns in this country - and way way more gun violence here than any other country not at war. I don't want to live in a war zone so you can indulge your gun fetish. What about MY "freedom" - my freedom from fear?! My rights count too!
2
I think it is unacceptable to say “gun control is not the answer” and then fail to offer an actual alternative answer. Arming teachers and having armed guards is NOT the solution. I refuse to accept that my precious children go to school in a war zone. Not only that, as we saw from today AND from Parkland, having armed people around might diminish the death toll from these shootings but it won’t eradicate it. We need solutions to STOP this violence from happening in the first place, not stopping a killer halfway through a spree.
2
I don't hear anyone saying lets ban the sale of guns, that's not in the conversation. Requiring gun owners to secure their weapons is, along with banning things like bump stocks, and changes in background checks. Nothing major, just fine tuning. I own guns, and wouldn't give that right up. But it isn't like there's nothing we can do.
4
Where does that come from? A huge number of Americans want all guns gone.
1
Any 'rational' person who is for gun control, knows that taking away 'all guns' is never ever going to happen in this country. To try and do so would be a losing battle. So the only gun control folks who are suggesting that all guns be removed from the hands of private citizens, really have no place at the bargaining table.
It's not all that different from 'those particular gun owners' who outright refuse to accept any limitations on the types of guns, the types of accessories, the amounts of weaponry and ammo, etc., that any private individual should have a 'right' to, as well as the necessary protocols that need to be in place, both prior to a legal purchase, and during the continued ownership of said items (much like how we do, both before someone gets their driver's license, and subsequent oversight that is employed for as long as that person owns and operates said car).
We need to have more Conversations between the 'rational' folks on both sides of this debate. Those who only see all or nothing solutions ('more guns' vs 'no guns') have no common sense and therefore no place in this important conversation, especially if we hope to effect real change.
"He blamed the shooting on what he called a cultural decay exemplified by legal abortion, gay marriage and the separation of church and state."
That "cultural decay" is enjoyed by all of the countries of Europe. Which do not have a tithe the shootings, gun crime and gun deaths the US has.
6
While I feel as bad as the next person about the school shootings, I cannot get on board with the idea that today's children have more to fear at school.
When I went to school, we didn't practice lockdowns - we practiced "duck and cover" in fear of nukes being dropped on our school. I even talked my high-school German teacher into teaching me Russian out of the fear that the Russians were coming, the Russians were coming. Add to that, that the fear of every high-school student was being drafted to Vietnam upon graduation.
Fear of gun violence? That was called going to grandpa's house who once chased us all out of his house with his shotgun. Every time we visited the man, my mother (an ex-Marine) would have us wait in the car while she sneaked up to the front door, opened it and shouted, "Don't shoot dad, its me, your daughter!"
That was my childhood, people:) Russians, Vietnam war, and a shotgun toting midwest corn farmer called Grandpa.
3
Were nukes ever dropped on your school? Didn’t think so. My kids’ generation IS experiencing school shootings. They fear their school may be next.
3
Maybe if Texans in this town understood these kids were target practice for the shooters second amendment rights they might think twice.
Nah.
4
Given the choice, they will take live ammo over live kids every time.
1
On a similar note. Will Texans opt for greener energy as climate change cooks their state and brings larger hurricanes? Of course not, it's Texas.
5
Actually Texas is the largest producer of wind energy in the nation.
2
Sad but true. How many children of gun-loving NRA enthusiast must be killed or injured before these people see the light? Maybe the bible will tell them when enough is enough.
For the rest of us reasonable gun reform is needed including universal background checks, closing gun show loopholes, requiring gun sales only through licensed retailers and most importantly banning sale of any/all assault style weapons on munitions. Yes, we also need better mental health care but that alone won't solve this problem anymore than arming teachers or limiting number of doors in schools.. The '800lb' gorilla in this issue are guns. Of course the NRA spends millions of dollars to buy/influence politicians and hides behind the the 2nd Amendment charade.
2
Gun laws ARE an issue w/ this shooting. Safe Storage laws--which the NRA opposes--might have kept these guns out of the shooter's hands.
5
Even the studens who saw their friends killed by shot gun blasts don’t want gun control. But one Sante Fe mother thinks this happened because school prayer is not allowed anymore. Twenty Sante Fes wouldn’t change anything.
6
With a few exceptions Texans are just like the rest of us. They'd like a world without guns even though their state is filled with them. That's not because Texans chose to be that way and if they had a choice they would impose strict limits on gun ownership. This is really insulting to Texans
Texas : Let us Pray. And Prey.
Sad.
5
I'm guessing there is a lot of pain to go around on a shooting like this. At some point, we have to start considering the parents of this young man (and others like him) who housed and fed and nurtured and provided weapons to a domestic terrorist who, among other things, decided on a death sentence for a young woman who deflected his advances. His silences, sullenness, & withdrawn behavior were not merely keeping to himself as a "typical adolescent" but involved incubating rage and sadism which exploded in the school with his father's weapons. Those things were likely not products of some organic defect of mind but ignored/tolerated aberrations that festered over time, prompted rage-filled narratives that were prepared and put on display with thoughtfulness in that horrible half-hour. We have to stop treating these kids as trustworthy handlers of deadly weapons while these developmental problems seem to easily morph into social terror.
4
I am sick of self-professed "responsible" gun-owners washing their hands in public after another senseless gun-caused tragedy, and at yet another school. What are non-gun-owners like myself supposed to do, thank them for their sense of "responsibility"? Why don't they just face up to the truth: By buying and owning guns they are only contributing to the problem. Why not read the facts on gun-ownership and what it does for a person's chances of dying in a gun-related incident? Stop professing the merited "right" to own a gun. They haven't merited anything. And of the real rights of school kids, to not get shot or killed while sitting in their classrooms? Nothing. Nor a word about how they'd feel if their guns were to fall into the hands of a mentally ill minor. Not their responsibility? "Responsible" gun-owners, who claim to only buy and keep guns in the delusional idea that guns will keep them safe, which act directly denies a sense of safety to others, should refrain from washing their hands in the most recent bloody river of innocent people's deaths.
10
I'm sorry but, your comment does not help our gun control cause. You seem to be implying that anyone who feels the need to own a gun is, by default, 'irresponsible'. Yes, I agree with you that...I don't think owning a gun in and of itself, is going to make one automatically 'safer'.
However, if that's how some people truly feel, while we may not agree with it, it's currently their prerogative. And yes, I do agree that we need more laws and oversight surrounding who can own weapons, to what level (just how much weaponry, and what types of weaponry?) and how and where such weaponry can or cannot be used, stored, etc.
What we can agree on, and should be focusing on, are particular gun-owners such as the Texas shooter's dad. HE was clearly one of the 'irresponsible' gun owners to which you allude.
Those of us who want gun control need every responsible gun owner we can get, on our side. And when I say 'responsible', that should also include the notion of being able to employ 'common sense thought' when it comes to how we consider the ownership of weapons, and in the hands of private citizens.
3
I've asked it of Republican voters before: "Who do your Republican representatives represent?" Not you.
4
This is not a time for “hope and prayers.”
This is a time to vote for representatives who will act.
6
There are plenty of sensible pro gun control citizens in Texas. As I see it, the problem is that they are highly concentrated in urban centers like Houston, DFW, El Paso, and especially blue Austin, meaning that our voting power is highly diluted. That system is a problem in itself, too tangled to tackle here. But believe me, I am not the only Texan currently living in a small town who wants sensible reform. Remember Sutherland Springs, remember Sante Fe, and remember all the “smaller” tragedies where one or two are killed. I do not want my children living in a world like this.
8
Texans (and others):
Prayer is NOT working.
Try something else.
5
On what scientific basis are our leaders weighing in on what it will take to solve the issue of school shootings (et al.) in the US?
On what informed basis is Ritalin being blamed? Too many exits/entrances to school buildings? Mental health? Violent video games? TV? Abortions? The breakdown of the family?
Where's the data? Where are the statistics? What are the recommended best steps?
If the leadership is not using hard data as they comment on the horror of these shootings -- why not? We don't just offer thoughts and prayers to people with disease -- the disease is addressed with rigorously tested scientific data. Why isn't there a blue-ribbon commission to study this issue?
2
300M guns circulating.
No law can stop this.
Confiscating will take forever.
Why not. If not today, maybe in 30 years, 100 years. It can be achieved. As long as we start. Stop your defeatism before you start.
2
I have never read a story where someone made their own bullets at home. Perhaps the issue is not much about gun regulation. How about a regulation on bullets? They would sold only from behind the counter. Police departments can the ones who issue the prescription. Wish I could say that Santa Fe will be the last shooting but I would be lying...it will happen again.
6
The red states get what they ask for. I appreciate that many people in red states are under-educated (by GOP design), and under the spell of Fox News propaganda that relieves them their ability to clearly view the world, but it's no excuse. As long as they continue to support the GOP, and the GOP's (i) opposition to all reasonable gun control, (ii) erosion of the social safety net, (iii) opposition to public healthcare (including mental healthcare), and (iv) message of hate and fear, they will continue to suffer these horrible tragedies.
When I was younger and more naive, I used to ask how and why muslim countries put up with so many suicide bombers--why didn't the people stand up and put a stop to that absurd exercise? Now I ask the same thing about how and why the US puts up with so many school shootings.
Sounds like the people of Texas love their metal boom sticks more than they love their children.
8
Maybe if they understood these kids were target practice for the shooters second amendment rights they might think twice.
Nah.
3
What we can expect now: "A boost in gun sales. Fear-mongering by the National Rifle Association. Scapegoating of the mentally ill. A vicious war of words and gun statistics on social media. Lip-service from politicians who promise to stop this kind of tragedy from ever happening again." (Lisa Falkenburg, Houston Chronicle, 18May2018) Indeed. " ... allies of the National Rifle Association will quickly point their fingers at something other than … guns." (Gail Collins, NYTimes, 18May2018) And the NRA itself will oppose anything, no matter how commonsensical, that they construe as a "limit" on gun ownership: " ... the NRA has traditionally taken a hard line against legal liability for those whose guns are taken, no matter the negligence that allowed it, and used in a crime." (CNN, 18May2018) Given the hold they have on most politicians, nothing productive will happen. Texas Senator Cruz said: " ... we need to be doing everything humanly possible to stop this from ever happening again." But under his breath he finished the comment " ... as long as its OK with the NRA." Gotta keep that A+ NRA rating and the campaign donations flowing.
3
Well, if there is to be no additional restrictions on guns in the wake of these tragedies out of the belief that guns have nothing to do with them. Then, every student entering high school needs to pass through a metal detector or similar device each day. What, high school students aren't as important as airline passengers?
1
Rights that are not exercised correctly will be abused, and eventually lost.
The purpose of freedom of speech in the civil discourse is to allow your voice to be heard, to share your opinions and your goals with your fellow citizens, and to hear their opinions and goals to find common ground and resolve conflicts of interest as equals.
If you abuse this freedom, using the civil discourse to complain about and degrade others, instead of connecting with others to engage in the sharing of perspectives respectfully as equals, or if you sit idly while others do so in your name, society will suffer as a result of this right instead of being blessed by it. When this happens, people will lose faith in the right to freedom of speech, and ask the government (or the private companies who administrate our social media) to tamp down free speech and limit our ability to connect in the name of stopping abuse.
The right to keep and bear arms is to empower every individual to contribute to their own protection and the protection of society against violence. When you abdicate that power solely to police, while sitting idly as sociopaths and criminals abuse the right to bear arms that you neglect, you will suffer the consequences of an unsafe society, and eventually lose the right to bear arms as the police you charge with your protection fail to accomplish the role you were meant to provide for in society from the start.
Use your rights or they will be lost, with nothing to replace them.
2
Spoken like a true NRA puppet.
Those who care to own guns do so without impunity. They exercise their 'rights' on a daily basis. So I'm not sure exactly what you are getting at, when you tell those who are afraid of losing (all) their guns that they need to continue to 'use their rights', or else they are in danger of losing them. What rights exactly are you referring to, that supposedly some gun owners are not already fully exercising?
2
What kind of culture sacrifices children on the altar of the god of weapons? Barbaric. No other word for it.
8
Collateral damage. It can't be avoided. It's God's will. It's Obama's fault. Too many immigrants. If we outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns. It's our last line of defense against our government. The next thing they'll do is say you need a license to drive a car. Then they'll confiscate all the cars and make us ride bicycles.
6
Texas kids need to promote lowering the age of permissible gun ownership. That way, they can also be armed when the shooting starts. After all, more guns is the answer, right?
2
One of the most ignorant and politicized arguments against doing anything about guns is the oft repeated statement, "A law wouldn't have stopped this shooting because..."
Drunk driving laws don't stop all fatal drunk caused crashes. Laws against rape don't stop women from being raped. Both are part of a process of discouraging anti-social, destructive behavior. That's what we need with gun laws: reasonable, moderate restrictions, like education requirements, that help prevent reckless use of guns and in the process, perhaps, help to identify potential mass killers before they act.
There is no one set of steps to prevent mass killings. What we have now with school shootings is a bizarre fad, particularly among the mentally off balanced and disaffected young men and boys. Fads feed on themselves, they tap into the social nature of human beings and implant ideas. That coupled with news media coverage that, in the eyes of the few, seems to glorify mass killing has resulted in a fad that is hard to eliminate.
Is it time for the national media to consider a shamming program for mass killers, labeling them as weak cowards who can't face life straight on? Psychologists and others should help design such an effort.
We don't have to arm teachers. We need to look at every possible non-lethal method.
Any time a mass shooter can be slowed, he can be stopped. Someone with a rapid firing paintball gun could shoot the killer in the face and eyes. There are other steps that can be taken.
7
I really wonder what people like Robert Ross would do when Jesus tells him "The problem is that you have too many guns. It's not abortion, gay marriage, or the separation of church and state."
3
This article seems to want to put Texas democrats in their place by telling them that change won't happen. In fact, Texas had many democratic governors until George W Bush became governor in 95. Vote them out!
1
Today, CNN showed this statistic. The US has had 288 school shootings to date. Meanwhile, the world-wide total for all other countries was 28.
This difference is undoubltly due to the sea of guns in the US.
3
In Texas, the proposed reforms will consist of calls to prayer in schools and handguns for all teachers.
2
Maybe if they would have preyed just a little bit harder this may not have happened. I'd suggest adding a few extra minutes and volume on the next batch of prayers and if that doesn't work we'll increase it from there. But certainly don't waste any time with regulations or holding gun owners/manufactures liable or anything like that. Just prayers. And while we are at it, throw in a few for a new TV and less rainy days. Also do a quick prayer for maybe carrots to be a little bit bigger - that would be cool!
2
Several Santa Fe, TX students participated in the protest after the Parkland, FL school shooting. This article included a very small paragraph alluding to this fact, but made a point of saying how it was a very small number of students participating.
Perhaps the authors of this piece should have read all of the the prior NYT articles on Texas politics. If they had, they would know that there is a turning tide here in Texas and while it may not make a huge difference by the midterm elections, it will make a difference in a few short years. To conclude from the facts in this article that Texas would never support gun control is not up to the NYT standards of reporting.
I am a fourth generation Texan. My father was a huge Ronald Reagan supporter. But he would never have voted for a man like Donald Trump because he was a critical thinker and avid reader of history. He was an independent thinker and understood the importance of America's history and most revered tenants......freedom of the press, the rule of law, our system of checks and balances, etc. He taught me to be a critical thinker as well.
I spend a lot of time telling people to read the New York Times instead of, or at least in addition to, relying on Fox News. I hope that these people don't read this article. This article prompted one reader to call Texas a "swamp". This article does damage to the independent thinkers in Texas and is not worthy of being published by New York Times.
4
These guns have been around for a very long time, the common spree shooting trends are relitively new. Lets not forget the assault weapons ban was in place when the age of the spree shooting really kicked off; Columbine.
The NRA and the AR15 were still very much around long before the current dogma that made them trendy boogiemen.
So its clearly pretty disingenous to pretend availablility of guns or the NRA is the sole cause of the current shooting epidemic. It just happens to fit the political orthadoxy that now dominates all levels of media.
Until we are willing to actually seperate the political point scoring from the issue and actually tackle the cultural forces that make so many people want to murder hundreds of individuals in the first place, we are not going to dent this.
"...that kid was 17, so he was not able to buy a gun anyway...so it's not a gun law issue'.
Um, actually, it is.
Because, common sense would dictate that...folks shouldn't be able to buy guns so readily, 'just because' they want one (like the shooter's dad).
Just as we do for cars, people should have to go through testing, questioning, training, etc. Clearly this kid's dad had NO PLACE owning a gun in the first place, since the dad has now demonstrated to the world that he was incapable of properly SECURING his weapons. Weapons which are expressly INTENDED to MAIM and to KILL.
All the father's weaponry should be taken away, and he should be added to a national 'do not sell to list' so that he can never purchase weaponry again. The dad should also be brought up on some type of accessory to murder or manslaughter charges.
Oh...what's that you say?....if we add the dad to a 'do not sell to list', he'll find another way to get weapons if he really wants to? Nice try. We've all heard those lame excuses, as reasons to NOT have any type of gun control. But by that lame argument, why have any laws at all?...why have airport security checks?...why make it illegal to murder someone?....why make it illegal to steal?... etc. since, as you seem to say, those who want to break the law will do so regardless. Right? Is that what I hear you saying....that laws are pointless??
6
It is interesting that the aspect of the dad not securing the weapons has such little place in the coverage. Maybe the assumption is that Dad taught the boy gun usage and "safety" and thought him responsible.
One thing I wonder about: did the parents have NO IDEA about the kid's mental state and just left the gun safe unlocked (or gave him the combination, thinking it was "others" that needed to be locked out?)
Thank you, President Trump, for your bold and innovative leadership in dealing with our little problem... the murder of school students by gunfire. I know you appreciate the assistance given to you in this effort Rep. Ryan, Sen. McConnel and Mr. Lapierre.
Satan doesn't kill people, guns do.
Public massacres of civilians and school students has increased. Maybe some of these folk should focus their attention on the real world cause and effects of gun violence and fire arm accessibility here on earth than on fantastical myths in their imagination.
2
Of course not.
JFK, blown away.
Nothing changes.
1
What I find most frustrating is that there is common ground on gun laws. America, as a nation, is not going to be able to get rid of every gun -- it's not in our culture. But we can absolutely take all kinds of steps (fingerprint IDs on weapons, insurance companies inspecting people's gun safes, etc) to make these horrible crimes less likely. We could save thousands of lives each year -- but we don't even try.
Instead, every time someone suggests changing anything, the NRA throws up literally any other explanation for the murders (doors, video games, prayer) and then claims that any small, minor change in the gun laws is a slippery slope to seizing all weapons and rounding people up under a fascist state. It's absurd.
If lack of "prayer" was the problem, we'd see fewer mass shootings in states with higher church attendance. We see the reverse. We see more mass shootings where there are more guns. It's really that simple.
10
Almost immediately after the shooting incident in Santa Fe, New York Governor Mario Cuomo…before even knowing all the facts…penned a “Do Something/Enough is Enough” open letter addressed to President Trump and members of Congress. In it, he listed seven major shootings starting with the 1999 Columbine High School shooting and ending with the Friday shooting in Santa Fe, Texas. “When is enough, enough? How many more innocent people have to die before you act?” Cuomo wrote.
This smug, sanctimonious and 100% political “open letter” obviously signals Cuomo's intention to run for POTUS in 2020. What, precisely, does Cuomo suggest we do? And curiously, what does the NRA have to do with the incident in Texas?
This is why I hate politics. Whenever horrible incidents like this occur…followed by all the emotional, kneejerk reactions…I always ask myself, “Why can’t we step back and view what happened RATIONALLY instead of just lashing out emotionally and POINTING FINGERS?” What in the world does the NRA have to do with what occurred in Santa Fe?
In Santa Fe, an emotionally distraught kid took his father’s guns (NOT assault weapons) and committed a heinous crime...which I do hope he will pay for DEARLY!!!
I have a solution. We need to outlaw CRIME once and for all.
2
The NRA is responsible for creating the environment, kneejerk rhetoric and paranoia that feeds into a CERTAIN type of gun-owner that is gullible and incapable of critical thinking... This particular type of gun-owner actually believes that any talk of gun control is 'political', that any level of gun control (by default) infringes on their 'rights', but yet, this same gun owner refuses to consider that the very 2nd A they hold so closely to their heart, specifically mentions 'well-regulated'. Yet, I've not heard one such gun-owner explain for us, how 'well-regulated' means the polar opposite of 'gun control'??
Why is it that when a MINOR is able to get a hold of his ADULT parent's UNSECURED KILLING MACHINES, the answer is to simply try and understand what motivated this kid, and to try and figure out how to help such kids so that they don't act out this way?
But if another angry kid (under 16) were to get a hold of his adult parent's CAR KEYS, and plow that car into a crowd of students en route to school, we'd be calling for more 'smart key' technology in cars? And we'd be calling for better oversight of car owners. Oh, but actually...we already HAVE that. It's called 'having to pass a driver's test before you can get a license'. It's called 'annual car inspections'. And so on.
Yet still, some members of the Church of the NRA STILL don't want to consider that maybe, just maybe, we need to control WEAPONS, just as much, if not MORESO, than items of TRANSPORTATION?!!
6
You glossed over a central point, he used his Father’s guns. In no sane world, should a minor have ready access to firearms. The guns should have been locked in a gun locker, and instead 10 families paid the ultimate price. Common sense gun storage regulation is a no brainer.
5
That would be Governor Andrew Cuomo. Andrew Cuomo wants to run president in 2020.
Don't mess with Texas, I say.
Other states who suffered these tragedies have hardly done anything to address this issue.
We know what happened in Florida or for that matter Colorado - ground zero start of an epidemic of these terrible events.
Heck, even Connecticut hardly advance any anti gun legislation.
My view is why are we not talking about these parents who allow their troubled sons (thankfully only sons so far) access to these lethal weapons.
If I were a legislator, I would have us pass a legislation that all parents have a gun safe in their house regardless of how many guns and ammunition they may own or wish to own. And furthermore, an underage cannot have a gun in his hand without an adult present nearby.
It's time to put a spotlight on these parents - just being busy with their own lives is no excuse to allow their son to become a mass murderer.
4
Yes, Satan seems to be quite active in Red Texas. It's unfortunate the city residents have to be dominated by the cruel and irresponsible residents of the rural and suburban areas. But for those Red folks, it's hard to sympathize. If they are okay with torturing the neighbors who disagree with them, and shooting one another, I guess that's their call.
5
Prayers are not a solution.
(Not a Native Texan; here by default)
6
I find it interesting.... how common it is to find 'gun states' and where 'church' is also central to their lives. Either way, whether by way of the NRA or the church, it seems some folks are more susceptible to brainwashing.... with little to no critical thinking skills. Any question asked of them is met with a standard response, whether it be 'it's my right under the 2nd A' or 'thoughts and prayers'!
Instead of 'thoughts and prayers', how 'bout 'memories and action'?
Ya gotta love the hypocrisy of religion. If folks pray, and then things HAPPEN to go their way, they say 'See that? Behold the power of prayer!' But if these same folks pray, and things DON'T go their way, instead of admitting that maybe prayer is utterly ineffective (ie., cannot direct or change something within the universe)...instead of admitting that prayer does nothing more than placate or satisfy the particular individual, they will say 'ah, well...it was god's will (that things didn't turn out the way we had hoped...).
But then, isn't 'everything' god's will? If you believe in a 'god', then isn't he/she/it capable of determining everyhting in the world...good and bad? And what about the 'devil' that you believe to be so influential? If things don't go your way, then why don't you ever say 'ah, well it was god's will, but then the devil won out over god'?
3
Amen, sister. I would like to see stats on the correlations among church attendance, gun advocates and conservatism in states or regions.
Some comments in this chain and in those of a similar article in the Washington Post seem to speculate that higher church attendance and more Faith would stop this nonsense.
More guns eh.... because the two *trained* and armed police officers who were already stationed on site were so very effective at preventing this tragedy....
Saying we need more armed civilians to prevent shootings is like saying we need more drunken drivers so that hopefully they just all hit each other leaving the roads free for the rest of us. It is irrational...
13
I’m guessing 40 years ago before the NRA became an industry lobbying group, no one in this town talked about guns, played with guns, or fetishized guns, or ever even saw a gun. Target practice for hunting, sure.
The NRA and Fox News have played a major role in turning guns into everyday objects no stranger than a hammer. This was a gross mistake for which 10 more innocents just paid.
8
Why aren't the gun owners held accountable when their guns are used for a crime? The shooter's father, unfortunate as this is, should be held responsible for not safeguarding his guns. If it is a big enough risk for gun owners, they'll probably take necessary steps to safeguard them.
7
A majority of Texans may shrug and say, “Oh well”. But that majority is shrinking and the day is approaching when Texas will no longer be a blood red state.
5
Politicians who have taken $ from the NRA are not entitled to security screenings prior to the entering of their building. They should be required to move their offices out of the congressional office complex and into a regular building in DC. No security screenings allowed.
If our children must live in fear, so should they.
3
Taking away guns does not quell the hatred that provokes using them. Like Climate Change the root of the problem is far more subcutaneous. But bangages is all we have, it’s nobodies fault.
When the Superintendent of the Santa Fe school district proclaims that school security worked because there were only 10 dead students shows how tone deaf the entire Republican leadership in Texas is about guns and their obsessive allegiance to the NRA and the 2nd Amendment. Running to the local church to pray will not solve the gun problem, nor is it any longer a fitting memorial for the scores of children, teenagers and adults who have died prematurely because of this senseless promotion of guns.
6
“If one of the teachers had a gun, we would have been a lot better off.” --Ms. Williams
And, if no one had a gun, you would have been the "best off."
15
Just waiting for the democrat calls to ban shotguns and revolvers now.
When conservatives don't believe you when you say "common sense gun control," this is exactly the reason why. If this shooter had used an AR-15 or evaded a background check, your arguments would make some internal sense, however neither of these apply.
What gun control measure (short of banning all firearms outright) would have prevented this shooting? What "common sense" law that is not already on the books would have saved those lives?
Politicians, talking heads, and (now) comedians can grandstand all they want about how "we need to do something," but that is empty rhetoric and doesn't help the divide in this country over gun rights. The sad and disturbing truth is that there are evil people in this world, and if they want to commit evil acts, there is little we can do to thwart them.
A new common sense gun control law: Gun owners maintain strict control in securing their firearms. No dead students in Santa Fe
2
The fact that you see this as unfixable restricts your ability to actually think of effective policy solutions. Guns should be treated like cars- machines that serve a purpose, but possess the ability to hurt and kill. If all gun owners were required to pass a written and demonstrative skill test, and if all guns were required to be insured by the owner and liability was incurred if their misuse resulted in injury or death, we would not see such cavalier, black and white thinking when it comes to gun ownership. The 2nd Amendment doesn’t give the right to own a gun with no responsibility or liability, just as the 1st Amendment doesn’t protect people from the natural and social consequences of the words we speak.
6
The first thing that needs to be done is to specify what one means by "gun control." A slogan without content will not create the political alliances needed, even if the NRA promotes slogans of its own. There are many, if not most, gun owners who would support all sorts of measures, if they were reassured that registering felons, psychotics, and abusers wasn't the first step on a slippery slope toward confiscation.
I expect most hunters -- certainly the ones I know -- are more responsible in the safety and use of their guns than the average driver is with his or her car. You can't simply put all gun owners in one box. Rural hunters, fearful urbanites, Rambo wannabees, and others are really in separate categories. The same can be said for AK-47s, shotguns, rifles, and handguns.
Wringing our hands and wailing about "guns" will get us nowhere. It is necessary to develope a real program -- perhaps different ones for different places -- and then form a coalition to advocate for appropriate legislation and regulations among those whose attitudes toward guns vary.
TV and the internet exacerbate the problem: they guarantee to those so inclined their 15 minutes of contro and fame by shooting up the place. There's a qualitative difference between affecting your community and commanding worldwide attention. Control, power, fame: for those for whom such dominate all other considerations, desires, and values, they know they have a guaranteed, functionally captive audience.
2
If Texans are willing to have repeated school massacres to preserve their absolute right to carry firearms, then there is nothing the rest of us can or should do to change their situation. Leave them alone and let them have the life they have chosen.
5
Curricula in K-12 public schools in Texas are replete with blatant distortions about the principles on which this country and the US Constitution were founded. Remember what former SCOTUS chief justice Burger said in 1991 about the Second Amendment: "gun rights" special interests committed and continue to commit fraud on the American people.
3
Let's look at this by the numbers. The NRA has 5 million members. There are 235 million voters in the United States. NRA membership represents 2% of the voting population. One third of the NRA says that the NRA has lost its way, and 72% of NRA members support background checks.
BUT, from CNN, "among the 535 current members of Congress in both the House and the Senate, 307 have received either direct campaign contributions from the NRA and its affiliates or benefited from independent NRA spending like advertising supporting their campaigns."
Congress is promoting American terrorism - for an organization that doesn't even represent a statistically significant number of voters.
It's a stupid, STUPID, deadly deal.
6
Reading from Canada, this article and readers' comments on it seem to me to be caught up in irrelevant 'gun blather'. What is clear from the comments of surviving Santa Fe students is that a culture of bullying and stoic acceptance and mutual ignoring are the problems that allowed this tragedy to erupt without perception by responsible actors of the danger of such red flags occurring.
The bullying issue has been discussed in forums in which gun control does not dominant discussion. Here's an example:
***Dustin Severin, an 11th-grade student at Santa Fe High School, told KRIV that the suspected shooter, 17-year-old Dimitrios Pagourtiz, was constantly teased at school, but that he believed it never escalated into anything physical.
"I know he's picked on by coaches and other students. He didn't really talk to anyone," he told the station. "My friends from the football team told me that coaches said he smelled, like, right in front of his face. And other kids would look at him and laugh at him ... nothing like physical but they still emotionally bullied him."
"I never thought he would just snap and shoot up the school," Severin added. "He didn't seem like he was a hateful person."
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/santa-fe-high-school-student-202330470.html ***
of such seriously dysfunctional habits of relating at all levels of Texan society is the issue. Stoic
1
All the guns in American are not worth the death of one child.
8
We get what we want. It's not complicated: Americans would rather have guns and dead school children rather than having tough gun restrictions and children alive and feeling secure. If that were not the case, Americans would elect representatives at the federal and state levels who would vote to repeal the "right to keep and bear arms" and replace it with a national law tightly limiting the right to bear arms. Yes, it would take decades to get all of the guns turned into scrap metal, and, of course, generations of males would stomp their feet (there are only male shooters killing our children), but we might then be free of these incidents. If we don't confront this head on, then we get what we have chosen: dead children, prayers to a deity who must have pre-ordained this, and on to repeat.
8
K-12 public schools in Texas are replete with textbooks and materials that contaminate young minds ('No Child Left Behind' means no child left with a mind!), and perpetuate blatant distortions and egregious lies about the principles on which this country and the US Constitution were founded. That's the way the TX Gov., Lt. Gov., and Legislature want it.
If y'all haven't already, look up what former SCOTUS Chief Justice Burger said in 1991 about the 2nd Amendment. But be careful using Google, Big Brother is watching.
I wonder what the good folks at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, TX are praying for now?
1
I truly believe the big Problem in the U.S. is the Gun Culture. There are people in other counties with mental illiness. There are guns in other counties. Yet No Where is there School Shootings like there is in the U.S. A relative of mine who lives in Texas shows up at a family gathering a "baby Shower" with his gun on his waist. Never leave home without it Mentality. This is the Problem in America we love guns so much that Congress passed a law you can Not bring any legal action against Gun Manufactors. All people like Gov. Abbott like to say is Our Prayers are with the Victims and their Families. weel Keep your Prayers and Do Something. Even after Santa Fe High School Shooting Gov. Abbott is having a rafilling off a Shot Gun. In America Jesus runs Neck and Neck with the Love of the Gun.
4
Tragic that the political leaders of the state of Texas value their guns over their children. The only solution is to vote them out.
5
There are two types of people in this world. Those who believe in personal responsibility and exercise it in their daily lives and those who don't. At the end of the day the only person(s) to blame for these tragedies are those responsible for pulling the trigger. That's where the outrage belongs. Not at the NRA, guns, the Second Amendment, music, video games and whatever else. Failing to acknowledge that fact will only continue to result in anger, division, hatred and inaction.
There are an estimated 320 million firearms in this country and they aren't going away. Neither is our Bill of Rights that isn't a Bill of Needs, Privileges or Suggestions by the way. Any society that allows their freedoms to be determined by the actions of criminals and the mentally ill will in the end have none left. Dangerous freedom is preferable over peaceful slavery every day of the week.
Some live by the belief that a few bad apples in a barrel spoil the whole bunch. Others such as myself reject that and believe that the few bad apples belong separated from the rest and thrown out. That in combination with enhanced security at schools like we have in so many other places where mass shootings either don't occur or are extremely rare are far better options, realistic and have a chance to deliver results.
Texas, you’ve become an embarrassment to the rest of the country with your hick backward ways, leaders and customs.
You used to be so cool- western style bravado.
What the hell happened?
5
And yet citizens from your state flock here in record numbers.
I own two handguns and a shotgun. Their purpose? Home self-defense. I feel, as someone who was shot in an attempted hold-up, that the time and resources I have spent in weapons acquisition and training is merited. I don't carry outside the home. I am careful about where I go and don't go. The mind is your most important self-defense tool.
Needless to say, I reside in a neighborhood where armed violence is a daily fact-of-life. I have taken prudent steps to protect myself and those around me. I am wary yet I feel relatively safe from the standpoint of "personal" security.
Social issues are a different matter. No one needs an AR-15 for self-defense. It's a weapon of war. The tragedy in Santa Fe illustrates the fact that an "assault weapons" ban would not eliminate gun violence.
Truth be told, gun violence is just the tip of the iceberg. Evangelical hypocrites, notwithstanding (the Devil quoting Scripture?), the violence in American society is not one of "cultural decay". As H Rap Brown noted, "Violence is as American as cherry pie."
It's baked into the very fiber of a culture based on Native American genocide, chattel slavery, Jim Crow, xenophobia, imperial conquest, CIA death squads, and class privilege. All of this, of course, is distilled in the poisonous, self-serving notions of American exceptionalism.
Short of dealing with this legacy in a radical redistribution of wealth on the basis of international partnerships and true democracy - violence is here to stay.
20
You must not be aware of the serious feral pig problem in Texas. Hunters use AR 15s to hunt them. They have to because there are so many of them. They destroy crops, even suburban lawns, kill wildlife, etc.
There are an estimated 2.5 million feral hogs in Texas that cause about $50 million in damage to agriculture every year.
1
But not gun violence.
1. Lots of nations have haters, oppressors, ugly history. But without all the guns, their violence is less common than ours. By a lot.
2. If guns stopped killing people, people wouldn't want them. We'd still be violent humans.
But in your case, where you've suffered personal attack, there's a special need.
3. If someone suffers violent crime, the only response that will work is justice. When we defund and ignore the need for justice in neighborhoods where there's crime, it opens the gates to vengeance and guns.
4. Justice works. That's a belief that shouldn't be as difficult to spread as upending "American exceptionalism."
5. Justice doesn't mean lying about evidence because "they're guilty of something." It doesn't mean people need 25 year sentences, when 1 year is forever in prison. It means sentencing the right person for the crime.
2
Division is what creates violence. The inability to move on from past mistakes, the inability to embrace the good in people and institutions, and insistence that judgement, usurpation and war are the only means to solving problems, is the textbook definition of moral decay.
If the Columbian genocide is a generational curse upon us, why should the white man even be allowed to live on this continent? The only solution is to kill them all or send them back to Europe.
Or move on and forge the optimal path to our future from where we are now.
If bankrupting The South in the aftermath of the Civil War, along with all of the current programs we have to fight generational poverty, for all citizens in general, and for minorities in particular was not sufficient recompense for slavery, then nothing is good enough. Burn it all down. Kill everyone and start over.
Or move on from where we are at to CONTINUE searching for the best way to maximize our collective happiness in the future.
If the Marshall Plan, and our continued efforts to invest in the world to elevate it from poverty, often at the expense of our own citizens, aren't enough to overcome every diplomatic and military mistake we have made in the process, let's solve the problem by starting a civil war, burning our collective wealth to the ground along with the lives of millions of our own citizens, and hand the third world ashes of our country over to an unanswerable world government.
Or find an answer where we stay free.
Texas easily ranks No. 1 in the number of registered guns. Texas, the second most populous state, has 588,696 registered gun while California, the most populous state, has 344,622 registered guns. However, the gun murder per capital rate in Texas is 3.3, the same as in California. The gun murder rate for the United States is 3.85. Many states have higher gun murder rates than Texas.
https://www.thoughtco.com/gun-owners-percentage-of-state-populations-332...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/10/06/555861898/gun-viole...
2
And many states have lower rate of gun murders than Texas. Should Texas get lessons from these states?
4
What lessons? The difference between states are attributable to demographic differences than to differences in gun laws.
I'm curious where you are coming up with this "registered guns" number, because we don't register guns in Texas.
According to s recently released FBI report titled “Active Shooter Incidents in the United States in 2016 and 2017,” there were 50 active ASIs during the two-year period, only 20 of which met the FBI definition of mass shootings. The report shows that 21 states had ASIs, which means that 29 states had none.
Seven of the 50 ASIs occurred in K-12 schools. So, each year about two or three K-12 schools have ASIs. The United States has about 98,200 K-12 schools. So more than 99.99 percent of K-12 schools have no ASIs in a typical year. At the rate of seven school shootings every two years, there will be 42 ASI during the 12 years a typical student spends in the 12-K system. This means that 99.96 percent of K-12 schools will have no ASO during a student’s K-12 academic career.
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/active-shooter-incidents-us-2016-201...
1
What on earth is Texas? Talk about a swamp. When can we separate from this place? It's holding back civilization.
11
The gun murder per capital rate in Texas is 3.3, the same as in California. The gun murder rate for the United States is 3.85. Many states have higher gun murder rates than Texas.
This is where we are America.
Bibles in public school? Violates Separation of Church and State. Armed teachers? Police will shoot the teacher in mistake. (just imagine your teachers with a gun)
No anti-gun laws? More mass shootings by deranged people with assault rifles.
5
Just another shooting.
Nothing will change as just a handful of people care.
Thoughts and prayers right?
11
Civilians opening fire on civilians was Never the intention of the 2nd Amendment.
13
Time for the tax breaks given to the NRA and the Baptists et al to go into a victim fund. This is ridiculous. A couple of these type crimes are going to break every small town in America more than any industry leaving them behind. And Oliver North blabbering about Ritalin sounds like he is on something himself.
At the very least buying liability insurance must be mandatory for gun owners. That is not too much to ask.
10
I live in Texas....soon to adopt the slogan: “Come to Texas—Shoot Up a School!”
We are doomed.
12
Remember the Last Vegas shooting? 58 dead, hundreds wounded. But these were country western fans, and if they had to be sacrificed to the gun lobby, I think they are acceptable losses. For the people who worship guns, who have an insane fetish for owning them, who believe the Apocalypse is occurring any day now, who believe the Confederacy was an honorable cause and that the South will rise again... there is no limit to the number killed by guns, no logical or legal argument that will make them change their beliefs. Think of them like IS IS or the Taliban. Logic doesn't work with them either.
10
"As Mr. Patrick greeted parishioners at Arcadia First Baptist Church on Sunday morning, he got an enthusiastic greeting from Robert Ross, 69, who has lived in Santa Fe all his life and has a nephew who once played football with the gunman."
I would like us to stop referring to underage boys as "gunmen." These are, for the most part, gun-children shooting up our schools. Let's keep the language reflective of the problem we are facing.
3
One thing is obvious, the NRÁś talking point retort, ¨the answer to guns is more guns," since what actually happened in the cross-fire that ensued is under investigation. If itś determined that students were wounded in the cross-fire or more lives were lost as a result of it, then it proves, as we have long suspected, more guns is not a viable solution at all.
3
Why are there 5+ armed police officers in the mall across the street from my office and only 1 resource officer in most schools? Until we start deciding to protect schools at least as well as we protect shopping malls, we can expect more of these (regardless of what laws the gun grabbers can pass).
1
Don't worry about Texas. Hey, isn't this one reason we have individual states, so that local attitudes and culture can shape laws and public behavior?
I am a native Texan by ancestry, my great grandparents having traveled to Texas in a covered wagon around the 1890s. Generations have followed and stayed. Having spent years in Texas, I understand "gun culture", but what I cannot fully understand or accept is how guns, which create death, have become a close to the heart, never-give-up cause, more important than almost anything else. My gun is me?
Texas became a rich, successful state for two reasons: massive amounts of oil and programs championed by so called liberals that helped turn an isolated, countryfied state into a modern one. Rural electrification? Liberal. Rural telephone service? Liberal. The Interstate highway system? Liberal and moderate Republican, too. Land grant colleges? Moderate+liberals. The space program? Liberals. Military equipment manufacture? Liberals and righties. Money to build lakes across the state? Liberals+moderates. Farm price supports and massive federal grants to farmers? Democrats and Republicans. For all these reasons, naturally, "conservatives" hate liberals.
I don't care what Texas does with its guns. They can make love to them if they want to, but the rest of the nation needs to, step by step, find careful and reasonable ways to deal with this awful problem, this fad of mass killing in schools. Eventually, Texas will wake up, too.
9
American youth should rethink whether they should serve in the military. Why defend our country and risk your lives and health when the country cannot keep you safe at home in schools ? Adults have failed. Why die for them ? Boycott the military.
3
Unrelated issues. Military service is the obligation of every 18 year old male in this country, without regard to how beneficial the county is to you. Poor kids from low performing urban schools (myself included) are no less obligated than the valedictorian of a well funded LI school. Once performed, military service doesn’t owe you anything, especially if like mine it was in peacetime. My Army MOS led to a dead end job that, as a 1099 contractor, pays substantially less than minimum wage.
1
The most thoughtful and common sense words to come out of Texas were those spoken by the Houston Police Chief. If the citizens of Texas are lucky, perhaps he'll run for higher office and replace some NRA puppet.
12
While those of us who have survived our education bicker about guns over troll-mediated social media forums, kids head off to school this week with 10 more reasons to be afraid. School has become life and death scary right here in the United States of America. There can be no greater symptom of the harm our current political divisions have wrought than our utter paralysis when it comes to protecting our children.
To my friends on the right: Left-leaners like me do not want to take guns away from responsible owners. What we do want is your help to make gun ownership in this country less of a scary free-for-all. You probably want that, too. Messengers who say it is all or nothing are lying.
To my friends on the left: Guns are certainly part of the problem, but they are by no means the whole problem. When we get stuck on that one position, the other work doesn't get done. Even if fresh, common sense legislation was passed today, it would be years before the results took hold. What can we do in the meantime? Maybe we can pause to listen when our pro-gun friends point to other ways to keep our kids safe.
Children are being massacred in our schools. (God, I wish that last sentence was hyperbole.) We must get out of our ideological silos with the understanding the only way this will change is through the best thinking, intentions, and actions each of us to offer. Our attention needs to be on lifting them up, not tearing each other down.
32
Re: "To my friends on the left" - I appreciate your effort to find some middle ground, but this shooting would have occured even if "common sense" gun laws were effective.
Under what compromise scenario would the killer's father not be allowed to own the weapons he had?
There really is no such thing as a "responsible gun owner". The shooter's father was a "responsible gun owner" no?
Guns + Human Beings = gun violence no matter how you slice it. The only people in society who should have guns are the true militia. Police, military, etc.
8
By holding the father responsible, too. Make it a law that if kids get your guns, you are an accomplice.
Statistically, only children in poor urban neighborhoods face a "gun violent reality". Often gang related, they get killed (individually) at rates 10 times higher than the rest of the country.
In reality, most children are more likely to die from accidents, suicide, overdose, than guns, by a wide margin.
So the meme that "children are being sent into harm's way" is paranoia; that kids say it too doesn't change that. Mass shootings are like plane crashes: they're big stories. People die every hour in traffic accidents.
Gun control matters a lot in urban areas, because that's where guns are most used against others. Poor, urban neighborhoods will always be violent. My grandfather was a gang member in NYC, and they had knife fights. A lot fewer people died.
But it's a long way from there to most school districts, where parents should be more concerned with locking their medicine cabinet, which is probably more accessible than their gun box.
A little empathy for the urban poor would go a long way to addressing this problem.
2
Sounds like common sense still rules in Texas--no "nanny state" for Texas.
I grew up in Texas and was lucky enough to have a Texas grandmother. Farm and ranch people used to have enough common sense to not let any kid get a hold of a rifle and walk into a school and kill people. We kids never even SAW my dad's Marine Corps pistol. Never.
My grandmother would have told Dan Patrick to Sit Down.
And he would have done it.
29
Everett Common sense?
Fewer exits? Keep kids penned in like animals in a slaughterhouse? Let armed teachers fire away & just hope & pray that the gunman gets his head blown off & no kids lose theirs or survive paralyzed, brain-damaged etc, & Law Enforcement rushing in doesn't gun down the defending teacher thinking he or she is the perp?
Common sense?
Better that thousands of kids die than a nanny state passes common-sense gun restrictions?
Texas children would be much safer without ammosexuals like you.
4
Times are different, and we all have to acknowledge that. These people are getting their hands on guns, so we need to safe guard the rest of our precious children.
as a previous writer wrote this is not a all of nothing issue. So many of the past tragic ties have shone us that that there were red flags, but no one paid attention.
It is the prerogative of Texas to enact whatever gun laws it wants, but personally I will never live in a state that puts a higher value on guns than children.
21
Perhaps the NRA, the religious right, the Republican Party and Fox propaganda can persuade the Trump administration to adopt a pray-more, regulate-less approach to solve the problem. Wait. Isn’t that what we now do? It must be working, look at the thousands of schools where no shootings have occurred.
7
Kids it is up to you to save your own lives.
Register to vote and get rid of these people who are all but shouting that they will not protect your lives- for political reasons.
24
A reminder women are the largest group of "swing voters." If you want any movement toward reasonable gun control here in bible-thumping Texas, your best chance is reaching women... who are generally more empathetic than men. Especially when it comes to the lives of their children. Democrats should take note.
9
guns are killing their children and they are so entrenched in their position that they can't take a step back and take a deep breath and rethink their the situation. And worse than the kids that have already died, is that their are more to come...nice smart wonderful children that have become the ante for the gun lobby
9
My question has always been not how does this happen but why doesn't it happen more often? Our culture worships guns with millions of deluded souls actually believing their possession of a firearm is the only thing that stands between freedom and the country becoming a giant government controlled gulag. We interpret reality as a rigged system of simply winners and losers with each deserving whatever they get. I considered High School with its superficial values, cliques, outcasts and those existing at the margins the most ridiculous period in my life. With so many kids mocked, bullied, ridiculed or shunned in a culture seething with violence, alienation and resentment combined with 300 million firearms, what would you expect?
6
Can we stop calling sensible gun control “anti-gun” and start calling it something along the lines of “anti-reckless / anti-careless firearm regulation” (yes...I agree my wording is clumsy). A gun is a potentially lethal tool…as are cars, trucks, cranes and high voltage electricity to name a few. I’d suggest people re-read NT Times Feb. 21 article: “Is Israel a Model When it Comes to Guns, as Mike Huckabee Says”. Trump’s new “favorite country” has what I consider a pretty responsible regulatory framework for firearms that I believe most moderate gun-control supporters would get behind. Of course the right wing’s (and NRA) nominal love for Israel aside, it would probably be aggressively opposed by the NRA.
And as for the 2nd Amendment, I (and others) keep asking: Just what “well-regulated Militia” did Dimitrios Pagourtzis of his father belong to?
8
No “Anti-Gun” backlash?? That’s disappointing, especially sense this seems to be yet another example of parents not doing a better job of securing their weapons. Because of the careless and cavalier gun ownership actions by one parent, several other parents will be burying their kids. If the weapons used were reasonably secured those kids would be alive and looking forward to summer recess, as opposed to being too dead to ever look forward to anything ever again.
5
Mr. Patrick needs to explain why the European countries with far less church going people have much lower rates of gun violence. Do the Europeans that happen to pray have better prayers? Maybe he ought to go there and get the secret recipe for the U.S. Or is it possible that the number of guns and lack of regulations in Texas and the US are a factor Mr. Patrick?
12
Some of the most idiotic suggestions for school security have already been presented. One must ask: Have any of these people ever been in a school?
8
Agree! Kids would swipe the guns if carelessly stored and/or busy teachers would forget to load or forget the safety was on or teachers would freeze, instinctively resisting shooting a child, or would miss and hit others, not the shooter. And the next group of shooters would make sure to shoot the teachers first in case they are armed. Most of all, it is not so easy to fire a weapon at another human being from a few yards away with intent to kill. Try it sometime. Shooting a deer from a distance through a scope is one thing. But even soldiers in battle fire over the heads of the enemy or dont fire at all....Civil War and WW1 research found that. TV makes it seem simple and easy. Its not.
1
This is why I support responsible tiger ownership. I mean it takes a good guy with a tiger to stop a bad guy with a tiger, and if everyone had tigers what could go wrong? After all, it's the media and lack a God in school that leads people to use tigers improperly.
6
Listening to these politicians like Texas Govenor Greg Abbott Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick about gun violence solutions in public schools is like asking your grocery store clerk to perform heart surgery. The truth is Texas politicians have zero clues about school safety, guns or no guns; and that sentimate is also true without elected Senators and congressmen who remain mum, by choice!
Texas politicians only care about test scores and cutting school budgets. They have never had the best interest of students Or teachers in mind. So, any of this maneuvering by Mr. Abbott or Dan Patrick is merely a show in their playbook, and a year from now our public schools will
Be the same.
The Texas Legislature has multiple millions in its “Rainy Day” fund; all state politicians , plus Abbott and Patrick have routinely and jealously refused to use that rich fund to help public schools.
Well, that Rainy Day is here, Mr. Abbott and Mr. Patrick. You boys need to put your spurs in the hides of your fellow Texas legislators, and flood Texas public schools with the money from that fund to harden Texas public schools.
My.Abbott and Mr. Patrick, this is your test given to to by Texas public school students and teachers; failure here is not an option.
Remember Santa Fe, Parkland and Sandy Hook.
3
"You can't protect yourself by taking guns away from good people". If no good people had guns there would never be mass shooting in schools. The guns of criminals and cops are never used in these shootings. They are always "good guys' " guns acquired by mental cases. If good people didn't have guns thugs would still shoot each other and innocent people would be robbed at gunpoint. Cops would still shoot the wron black guy too often, If people in Texas want to own and carry all the guns they can afford that's OK with me as long as I don't have to raise my kids there. I know they won't get shot in the inner city high school they attend here-- unless they don't pay up for the dope they bought
1
Would someone please define what a “good person” is?
A clueless yet “God-fearing” 68 year old retiree who has never missed church or paying taxes in decades might be a “good person” but might also walk into a gun show and walk out with a self protection arsenal and then leave it sitting on his kitchen table for a grandchild to play with.
There are only people who know how to safely use and store firearms and those who don’t or who do know but won’t because they are careless and lazy.
"gun rights advocates have called for...redesigning school buildings..."
Do I sense an opportunity to finally increase school funding?
8
Gun owners should be liable for crimes that their weapons commit.
12
I think the first and obvious thing we can do to protect our children is voting out the GOP leadership who care nothing for common sense gun law reform or education, for that matter. If you've got to be a one issue voter, vote out those who take money and support the NRA.
51
OR, all the anti-gun people could join the NRA today (it only has 5 million members) and in the next election they could vote in Michelle Obama instead of Oliver North. I am being dead serious, join the NRA and change things today. You can vote out the people taking money and they will just put others in place until the "libruls" take over the organization. It really would cost less than another million-person march on Washington which never accomplishes anything.
An obvious school-protective measure that seems not to have been tried yet or even to have occurred to the school-safety-and-gun-rights-community, would be mandatory strip searches of all people wishing to enter a school (including teachers, administrators, security personnel themselves, local officials, politicians, sales reps, cafeteria workers, politicians, guest speakers, reporters, et al). These searches could be conducted in separate "facilities" near or adjacent to the school buildings, by trained experts (for example, former or current prison guards), while the clothing, bags, and personal effects of those searched would be passed through metal detectors and examined by other trained personnel. Those conducting the strip searches would be subject to tight screening as well, including a stringent mental-health regime. Local community colleges could inaugurate certification programs for strip-search security specialists (SSSS).Such a program would probably require that those wishing to gain access to school grounds arrive 1-2 hours before any appointments (classes, etc.), depending on the numbers of search personnel on duty. If this is what it takes to protect our Second Amendment rights and keep our schools as safe as prison waiting rooms and state legislatures, it seems a small price to pay.
6
Why I just shake my head:
"He blamed the shooting on what he called a cultural decay exemplified by legal abortion, gay marriage and the separation of church and state."
13
Exactly, when in doubt, old men going full theocratic abstraction is a big help. You have to wonder if "cultural decay" includes parents who will not protect their own kids by limiting access to weaponry.
14
I suppose Texas is the home of Cowboy Christians? Ted Cruise Christians are Americas biggest problem on so many levels.
9
The NRA was founded to improve the alarmingly poor marksmanship of those drafted into the military. So much for the notion that private gun ownership has kept us free.
The current radical NRA interpretation of the Second Amendment requires believing that, when James Madison wrote "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State", he was just checking to see if his pen was working, and that "bear arms" no longer means "go to war", as it had for centuries, but rather, "wear a gun to school". So much for the notion that the Constitution means today what it meant when it was written.
Guns aren't keeping us free. They are making us live ankle deep in blood, and so frightened that we only feel "safe" when packing heat, even in our schools and churches.
41
Truth is, the NRA still has places to learn marksmanship for a decent price. It's like the Republican party: there are still Republicans defined by economic reason, who defend voting rights, and recognize racial and gender discrimination must be addressed. You meet them locally, the same way local NRAs have people who want reasonable gun control. But they dare not speak too loudly, because no one has their back.
Live life in a society where the military is pulled from amongst an elite military class instead of from the general populace, and see how long the concept of posse comitatus lasts in your society.
Our founders insisted upon an armed populace, and a military pulled from among that populace, because the saw the lessons of nations like the Roman Empire and others, where the elite and set apart military class could easily be turned upon the commin class and used as a weapon for oppression by the elites.
Our military pulls from every sector and every income bracket. Even our officers are pulled from across the social strata of our society. There is a proud tradition of political neutrality and compartmentalization of partisan politics from our military, based solely on the social dynamics you are trashing in your post.
I'll say it again. Other countries have as many angry, or mentally ill people who would kill if they had the means to do so. the only reason to=hose countries do not have our mass shootings is that those countries sanely regulate guns. States like Texas, the NRA, and the Koch Brothers care more about guns than human lives.
14
The second Amendment is the single most important document of the US Constitution. In fact it should rise above the Constitution itself and all the rest of the Amendments.
The NRA should lobby Congress and the Evangelical leaders like Falwell, Franklin Graham and others to elevate the 2nd amendment into the 11th Commandment of the Bible: "Thou shalt own hand guns and assault vehicles to defend your rights".
4
Every region has its crazies. Here in California we have anti-vaccinators, the midwest has its anti-foreign traders, but Texas rules. It's got crazies in charge, with Cruz and Abbott. Houston gets hit by a Hurricane and almost sinks, but it's not climate change. Students killed by a someone who uses his dad's weapons - no reason to control guns. Only a few months ago parishioners were killed in Texas, and nothing happened.
Nukes don't kill people, people do ... but everyone understands you don't make nukes easy to get, or they'd be used. The guns thing is about fear, both of others, and to make others afraid. Guns keep people in line, and they give a false sense of security. It's got nothing to do with a well-armed national militia. It's got everything to do with status quo.
6
Start prosecuting the parents—any parent whose child commits a crime with a gun owned by a parent should face prosecution as an accessory to that crime. Why can’t we at least enact that reasonable legislation? Think of all the children who accidentally kill themselves or another child because some careless adult left their gun laying around. It happens all the time in America and it rarely even makes the headlines.
Secondly, we need to strip guns of all their romantic nobility, so embedded in American culture. Hollywood, are you listening?
5
Abortions are the cause for mass shootings, not guns, according to the man that controls our state legislature, Lt Governor Dan Patrick.
11
Dan Patrick, the Lt Gov who has been treated for mental illness, is not fit on so many levels. He is a bizarre and unstable person who has taken such weird views that he should be removed in my opinion.
9
A Texas Woman says about the Sante Fe shooter: "“This kid is obviously mentally unstable...” There are a lot of people who believe that mental illness is the main cause of gun violence. I agree. We need to target the mentally ill – the Republicans and the NRA.
8
Easy Answer: National Guard
The FBI failed, the mental health system failed, gun control failed, even good guys with guns failed in Texas....all systems failed. All systems are projected to continue to fail.
ANSWER: Call in the National Guard. Each state has a National Guard (a state militia). These guardsmen/women are already on the public payroll. Give them additional training to coordinate with local police, then assign 3 to each school. 2 guards on the perimeter, so that one is likely to survive an ambush to alert the guard inside the school. Post a warning sign: "This school is protected by the best fighting men/women in the world."
Until my grandchild is under armed guard, I will not feel safe in delivering her to a public school. Public school attendance is mandatory in Texas (if the child is not privately or home schooled). This public obligation, supported by property taxes, requires public protection, at taxpayer expense, as necessary.
Legal: The constitutional separation of military action and local police action can be overcome under conditions of exigency. Also, the State militia (National Guard) can be deployed by a Governor when there is a civil emergency. Keeping our kids alive is now a state and national emergency.
I have sent a similar message to my City Councilman, Mayor, and all my Congressional representatives, as well as Governor Abbott.
I live in Houston and this article nails it with regard to rural Santa Fe, Texas. I would dispute the characterization of Texas as a deep red state, however, given that all the big cities -- Houston, Dallas, San Antonio and yes, Austin -- are pretty consistently blue and have leadership that supports gun control. Unfortunately, the gerrymandering makes it highly unlikely our state leadership will ever have any interest in reform on this issue.
40
Owning guns has never been part of a Jewish upbringing. I posit that among Jews, a tiny fraction are gun owners. We are not hunters or killers and that is what the function of a gun is: to maim or kill. We are shaking our heads at the mental gymnastics taking place around dealing with the gun crisis in our country. It isn’t about doors, Ritalin, bullying or lack of church attendance: it is about the ease of obtaining a gun and then acting out one’s disturbed fantasies. Guns are the problem. The Christian majority in this country will never give up their guns. How tragic for the rest of us.
35
everything is bigger in texas - including the denials and passing of bucks on what causes gun deaths there or anywhere else: GUNS.
29
Many people who are gun owners are also Evangelicals with a strong faith in an omipotent God, all knowing, all powerful. Owning a gun, carrying a gun is ananthema to their religious faith. Either you believe God can do all things including keeping you from harm, or you do not. Gun ownership is really someone making a statement of disbelief in a God who can protect you from harm, not faith in God. And there is nowhere in America where this is truer than in the wild, libertarian state of Texas. I know these people and this is just the way they are.
9
Only in America: Brie cheese made with unpasturized milk. Banned. Want a M134 rotary barrel machinegun? No problem.
29
Gun violence will continue and more children (and adults) will be killed by guns until really effective gun legislation is addressed by legislators, When Texans and all Americans finally rise up and say that this has to stop. only then will this senseless killing stop. So far too many politicians are afraid that the NRA and others who feel there is a "God-given" right for everybody and anybody to own any type of weapon of mass destruction to be able to have them will vote them out of office if they support any sensible gun regulations. Well there is a Silent Majority" out here in the rest of America who feel that getting guns of all sorts out of the hands of mass murderers is a good thing. Since our elected leaders will not do what is right we must elect new leaders.
8
Garry Wills said it best in his unanswerable essay "Our Moloch" (NYR Daily Dec. 15, 1912): http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2012/12/15/our-moloch/
2
Hey, Rev Patrick, here's a thought experiment, imagine the following:
1)Two men getting married.
2) Young woman getting birth control from the school nurse
3) Evolution being taught in class.
4) 17 Year old with easy access to his father's gun
Which of the above will result in the death of 10 classmates?
62
Apparently all but #4 are deadly sins.
7
Until he slaughters 10 people.
A school shooting killed ten people and wounded many more, and it has already been pushed down from the top stories. Few politicians are talking about it anymore, even though it was just three days ago. Shame on America.
9
Mass killing in our schools are getting to be like deaths from Drunk Driving, They happen so often that they are no longer newsworthy.
after Parkland, the GOP said "it wasn't the right time" and "let's not politicize this" . yet the Tex as gov., lt gov. agri commish, 3en Olliee North quickly jumped up, blaming, video games, lack of prayer, medication ...everything but the easy availability. very sad.
2
2nd Amendment Derangement Syndrome is a terrible thing.
They think guns are one of 'God's' gifts to the universe.
Troubling.
Universal mental healthcare is not just needed for the shooters, but for all of the Gun and Gods cult members who religiously aided and abetted the opportunity for the Texas boy to play with his daddy's murder weapons like they were a toys.
31
When will Americans get it ? The high and unacceptable incidence of gun deaths in the US is not only a cancer in America it is a National Security and National Health risk issue.
On guns, Americans need to recognize four facts:
1. Since 1968 more Americans have died from gunfire than died in all the wars of America’s history. There have been 1,516,863 gun-related deaths since 1968 in contrast to the total of 1,396,733 war deaths since the American Revolution.
2. The death rate by firearms is 92 persons per day! Both the total and the annual rate of all gun deaths have increased over recent history and are the highest in the civilized world.
3. There are an estimated 112 firearms per 100 residents. An estimated one in three Americans own guns.
4. Most of the discussions on the need to improve controls on guns and gun ownership are debates on the margins. Any new legislation to strengthen gun controls will affect only new purchases of guns. Any such new legislation will leave the remaining guns already owned unaffected, grandfathered by earlier laws. Tinkering on the margins has not and never will work.
The key issues are the proliferation of and the easy access to guns.
The NRA’s only raison d'être is to promote the sale of guns. The NRA is complicit in all these gun deaths. The NRA should not dictate the national policy debate on guns.
America: Demand the repeal the Second Amendment.
The new law should be called: “The Innocents’ Law.”
Bring peace to America.
53
Dont worry about us American and our guns.
1
The NRA is just complicit they are a reason for it. I view the NRA as a marketing and a lobbying organization designed to promote the sale of guns to citizens. Good guy with a gun slogan is just a marketing slogan and not a good policy and that's the way democrats should frame it!
Think of the tobacco industry and how they attacked new regulations, like how restricting cigarettes in restaurants would hurt businesses and how that turned out not to be true.
Or think if the automobile industry had attacked new regulations over time like the NRA attacks any regulations. We would still get a lot more people dying in automobile accidents like we did years ago.
7
All great soundbites. I guess we just snap our fingers and that will give the gigantic majority that is needed to scrap an amendment, right?
The NRA is doing its job. Nothing more, nothing less. They always condemn these shootings, and their entire purpose, from the start, is to oppose those calling for guns to be banned from those legally using them. Not a single spree shooter has lawfully used guns.
Demonizing the NRA is pointless. It makes about as much sense as demonizing immigrants for MS13.
2
I do not think gun laws will change any time soon. And that is the real tragedy. Regardless of what some may believe, even our courts, the second amendment was never meant to be interpreted or used in the way it has been currently applied. Owning a gun for hunting is fine, as long as it registered, regardless of when or where it was purchased. The same may apply for sport shooting. But we do not have militias and as far as I can tell, we will not for the foreseeable future. The argument that guns don't kill people, people kill people is simply absurd in this environment. What is true is that people with guns kill people. What is also true is that he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword. The rights of a gun owner do not supersede my right to live in a safe and gun(less) community.
22
I believe in no super-natural spiritual being. Science and History are the Altars that draw me in. To blame anything but the ease of access to guns is lunacy.
15
"That kid was 17. He’s not able to buy a gun anyway."
I made the same argument just yesterday. However, there was a subtle difference. My next question was: Why isn't the gun owner held accountable? The 17-year old wasn't legal allowed to purchase a gun and yet the 17-year old had access to two firearms. Shouldn't the person who did own the gun be held responsible for the ten deaths resulting from these weapons?
I could make the much the same argument about gun vendors and gun manufacturers. Gun culture is given a legal pass on negligent behavior. This in true regarding policy as well. If you legislate lax rules regarding the purchase, sale and ownership of guns, there are more opportunities for inappropriate behavior. The 17-year old could have just as easily waited for their eighteenth birthday and shot up the school a few months later. No one would be held accountable for the shooter's possession of guns in this scenario either. The way I see it, that's a big problem.
19
Exactly. No accountability. No liability. The gun lobby, supported by all of these A rated Repub politicians and big donors, is grifting America. The proliferation of guns do not make us safer or society more stable and it's tearing the country apart.
10
Most states do not criminalize the unsecure or negligent storage of guns. TIt is not a crime for a parent to leave a loaded gun around that their 4 year old kills someone with while playing with mommy's or daddy's gun. Thanks NRA.
7
It’s time to hold gun-owning parents responsible when their children use their weapons to commit violent acts.
Bar and restaurant owners and even residential hosts can be found liable after an over-served customer or guest drives and causes injury to a person or property.
10
This is american society folks. A lust for violence and blood. Get used to it if you already aren't. We're destroying ourselves from the inside. don't need north Korea or Isis. We can handle it just fine.
15
The spiritual corruption of this nations primary religion is heart and soul of the sewer in the middle of the American swamp. Down with Cowboy Christianity.
2
Having traveled to other countries, I don't believe that we Americans have any more lust for "violence and blood" as people elsewhere. The difference is the easy access to guns and the lack of laws that criminalizes the unsafe storage of guns here in America.
3
Far be it from me to make excuses for the suspects in school shootings. We need to address this problem and blaming the NRA or a certain type of firearm(AR-15) is not the way to stop these shootings. This shooting was carried out with a shotgun, Joe Biden's favorite, and a revolver. Do we ban shotguns and revolvers? Remember he had made explosives also. We can't solve this widespread problem by banning items. We need to tackle this problem at the root cause. The way our young people are treating each other is the cause and in this instance some adults got involved in the bullying also. This is a cultural problem with teens and we need to solve it by changing their behavior.
4
No we hold the gun owners responsible. Or at least have them carry insurance. Why are we picking up this social costs that few other countries have to deal with?
9
Every other First WorLd Country has the same mental health problems that the US does. The big disparity in gun deaths is because those other countries closely regulate the sale and possession of guns. So, they do not have the mass shootings.
3
Texas is such a gun culture. My usual vociferous Fbook friends have remained quiet on this issue.
4
"According to what I have seen, those who plow iniquity and those who sow trouble harvest it."
Job 4:8
2
I respect your right to own a gun. I'm might just get myself one too. I just don't care for how easily they are made available.
Disregard the criminals, there's far too many non homicidal idiots out there who don't know how to respect them. This case is just one of many.
Fix your ownership situation and then you get to keep your guns. But so far, it's business as usual. That's sad and pathetic.
I despise politicians and stars who use their power and image to promote the easy access to guns. Rot.
3
As has always been the case, Texas is a lot like the rest of America. The only thing that's actually "bigger" there is the talk.
4
Dear Ms. Williams, If not one of the people in your town had had a gun -- including the shooter -- you all would have been a lot better off.
Think about it, dear. Think, too, about the fact that one person did indeed have a gun in your school. And recall what good that did him or any of the people shot to death.
Think, please.
15
If I had children I would home school them. Hand them an iPad and tell them it’s much safer to stay home. Obviously public schools are the enemy of the right wing. These institutions have over the course of our Nation have taught young people civics, history and even evolution. Which is the scariest items on that list to the right wing?
By promoting the 2nd Amendment and the expense of all else, at the expense of our children, at the expense of our public school system, the right wing, the Koch brothers, will finally rid themselves of these institutions which teach civics and history and evolution.
8
Safety and security are very human illusions. Sitting home might be less dangerous in the short run, but it is no prescription for a healthy and satisfying life.
4
When Parkland happened, the left said, “we’re not coming for your guns. We just want reasonable, common sense restrictions, like a ban on ‘assault weapons’.” OK, so how do you deal with a guy with a revolver and a shotgun? Or, indeed, as per Toronto last month, a guy with a car (who mowed down ten people)?
One thing should be very clear: guns have always been relatively easy to get; it’s harder to get them today than it was 50 years ago. And, yet, we witness an entirely new phenomenon: a small, but significant number of boys who want to massacre their classmates (or theater patrons, the audience at a political meeting, etc.)
I’m 60; we NEVER heard about such things went I went to school. What changed in about 1999, with Columbine?
These cases almost always involve boys; perhaps there is something about the way we, as a society, are treating boys which creates the problem?
So, let’s be clear: guns have nothing to do with suicide rates, so leave those out. Accidents are rare but inevitable, and it’s no more problematic to lose a child to a gun accident than to a drowning in a back yard pool. (Much more likely) We could deal with urban violence with more aggressive policing, like the leftist bete noire: stop and frisk.
But school shootings are different. No one has proposed anything which would actually prevent them. Since it’s clearly not the guns, it must be something about society – about the schools – which presents the problem.
5
Your comment is solid, except for guns and suicide. Please just google guns, suicide, and how. Most people who attempt suicide and fail do not attempt and succeed in the future. Easy access to guns matter when people have a spontaneous moment where life overwhelms them. This is especially true in suicides.
2
Willful ignorance. Everything you say is true except for the nonsense about it not being about guns. Without the guns these types of school incidents would mainly disappear. Some violence would continue to exist - but it would be much less lethal violence.
7
There were events such as the Austin University of Texas clock shooting that did occur back when - but they were unique and isolated by years not weeks. So what was the turn? Is it possible that gun culture and not guns themselves is the answer. In the storied days of your youth gun owning was all about hunting. Some of it was about crime or protection from crime. But in the 90s came the crazies: open carry, camouflage, people playing pretend soldier. Did we develop a fantasy world where the perpetrator sees himself as a semi heroic character, avenging some wrong?
3
Texans cling to their guns and religion. Maybe someone should take out huge ads on billboards saying "God supports gun safety."
Until the gun culture changes more children will die in school shootings. It's a national tragedy and a national disgrace.
Gun ownership has been dropping for the past few decades (mainly due to fewer hunters). Maybe the next generation will have enough political clout to put children before guns.
8
Texas aslo clings to their Confederate Past. I've notingred that is it mainly the old Confederacy states that have the laxest gun laws and the strongest gun culture. I believe that they are all still afraid that the US Army will invade,
1
End school bullying. Or does no one want to admit that some of these shooters have been bullied.
The only way to end school bullying is to make schools smaller. Fewer students per school. Few students per classroom. Mega schools promote bullying and school shootings. But smaller schools would cost additional money. Not going to happen.
It is not school bullying that is the problem. It is the easy access to guns.
1
This killer actually bullied a girl and killed her because she rejected his advances.
so let's not scapegoat everything under the sun except that which is the actual cause- guns!
1
You got your religious right, you got your republicans you got their belief systems that have propagandized people beyond truth and reason. They are prepared to look for ethereal salvation rather than progressively look for ways to limit access to weaponry.
The horror in this that they are willing to stand by while pockets of their populations get annihilated. That amounts to willing acceptable collateral damage by people that should know better. In the long run this is a cancer on the culture which ultimately destroys via post-trauma in its many forms. Mental avoidance by addictions and the sheer stress of not knowing if you will be in the the right place at the wrong time. You can pray all you want and blame other things as being too progressive as causes but that is not going stop the cyclic nature of this cultural destruction.
3
The two pro-gun students interviewed are a chilling example of how children can be manipulated and kept in ignorance by cynical adults.
Neither of the kids had a thought-out, rational basis for their remarks, just shallow, predictable sound bites that echoed the blather of the politicians.
The pro-gun lobby is responsible not just for the proliferation of deadly weapons throughout the country, but the merciless brain-washing of young people like these, who are indoctrinated to te point of making assertions against their own safety.
107
So, Mr. Engelbach: The children at Santa Fe have been manipulated into thinking what they think—unlike the children at Parkland, who were able all by themselves to organize a media show and handle the logistics of a march on Washington?
2
Getting help in organizing a march that which has already been conceived is not the same as propaganda and lies used to keep a commercial enterprise afloat regardless of the ramifications.
1
Interesting to see this, since I was just thinking how there seems to be less concern about this event than previous ones. Partly repetition, but also because of where it happened. We know Texas won't change, that unfortunately adults won't protect kids there.
9
More than 115,000 Americans are shot every year, more than 35,000 die from gun violence. Almost 2 million American kids live in homes with unlocked, loaded guns. Our gun-related murder rate is 25 time higher than all other high-income nations. In fact, we have more than 80 percent of those homicides. Guns don't make us safer. They make gun manufacturers richer.
163
More Americans will be killed this year in automobile accidents than by guns. If we are being consistent, start by removing the cars, then the guns.
We allow a sixteen year old to drive a SUV AND own a phone at the same time.
Perhaps we can mandate a moment of silence for every child killed by a gun, every time it happens throughout our nation. This would sadly, constantly remind us of the continuing killing of our young, the future of our country, and that we continue to ignore their safety, their fundamental right.
6
The issue should always be How do we curb mass killings.
The following is from the jolting new book "The Boy Crisis," by Warren Farrell. It may change your life, and it could change our country.
"Before puberty, the suicide rates among males and females are about equal. However, between ten and fourteen, boys commit suicide at almost twice the rate of girls. Between fifteen and nineteen, boys commit suicide at four times the rate of girls; and between twenty and twenty-four, the rate of male suicide is between five and six times that of females."
"School shootings are homicides that are also suicides—even if the boy doesn’t end his own life literally, for all practical purposes, his life is still ended."
7
Those statistics are the same world wide. Males commit suicide more than females in all cultures.
2
The problem is not mental illness in boys or men. European boys and men have the same issues. But Europe has solved the kids and guns problem. Those kids can't get guns.
1
Abbott and Patrick began giving cover for the NRA while standing in puddles of victim's blood.
Nothing changes.
"Here's yer gun an yer bible. Be safe."
41
"...The differences in how the issue has played out in Texas and Florida illustrate...."
Illustrates that Texans focus on the criminal and not the tool.
Florida should strive to be more like Texas in this regard.
11
The Texas school killer was not a "criminal" until he put his plan into operation. So, what does Texas do to identify those young men who may become mass killers? Nothing, absolutely nothing. Its the guns Chipsterr. It has always been the guns and always will be the guns. texas like most other pro-gun states are more concerned with allowing their citizens to own guns than with protecting their children,
12
It's interesting that in the aftermath of Parkland, it was claimed that potential school shooters would be deterred by armed officers at schools. So much for that theory. Maybe both Texas and Florida should strive to be more like Canada, where the list of school shootings over 35 years is less than the number in the US this year to date.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/deadly-shootings-schools-canada-1.3416685
11
The Texas model is the problem, not the solution.
3
The governor of Texas made reference to the shooter not killing himself by using the word coward. It is incomprehensible that a governor would make reference to a child's mental state, this mental state, as being cowardly. This rhetoric promotes not only suicidal behaviour in young minds in this dilemma but a parallelism of behaviors leaving a message to future shooters that they should not be cowards. So where is the NRA now after promoting mental health concerns over any type of weapon or ammo regulations? Should they not be having a public word with the governor regarding his ability to influence behaviour? That is the definition of cowardly and one focused on adults.
11
America must be willing to sacrifice it’s citizens if Americans also demand support of the present, non-regulatory interpretation of the 2nd Amendment promoted by influential lobbyists representing powerful gun manufacturers.
The irony, however, is that many of the same people who champion the current non-regulatory understanding of the 2nd Amendment will continue to work hard to regulate all options for abortion/birth control.
13
I have a solution.
"A well regulated birth control industry, being necessary for the population control of a free State, the right of the people to have abortions, shall not be infringed."
hmmm now that I think about I see a problem, every time a weapon is bought does not automatically equate to the beginning of human life being extinguished, however abortion is %100 fatal for the beginning of a human.
"The abortion rate for 2014 was 12.1 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15–44 years"
"Gun related deaths are 10.6 deaths per 100,000 U.S. citizens"
hmmm something is not adding up, perhaps my solution would not in fact save lives...I will have to give this some more thought and get back to you, have a nice day.
1
Mr. Ross said he believed the solution to school violence was not gun control, but faith. He blamed the shooting on what he called a cultural decay exemplified by legal abortion, gay marriage and the separation of church and state.
“We wonder why this is happening,” he said. “Satan’s right there. He’s always putting his foot in everything.”
So the real problem with a child with easy access to guns being able to murder all these other children is: women's rights, gay rights, and the constitution - all of which were authored by Satan. Got it.
So why again is the Christian church in decline these days?
118
Right. So as an excersize, how long do you think it would take for Mr. Ross to reduce gun violence his way?
How exactly could he do that?
He's an insane person....gun mongers are not sane!
Mr. Ross doesn’t believe in gun regulation, but he does believe in regulating the availability of obtaining abortions? Got it.
I grew up in the Houston and Lake Jackson area- not too far from Santa Fe. It is not typical to push back on any government or corporate entity. Of course, people question in their homes but to do so publicly would make them a pariah.
3
Texans are always questioning the of the federal government.
1
Repealing the 2nd amendment? Not likely. Successfully supporting the secession of Texas? Now that’s something more Americans could get behind.
28
" Repealing the 2nd amendment? Not likely. Successfully supporting the secession of Texas? Now that’s something more Americans could get behind."
Maybe we should give Texas back to the Mexicans. We did steal it from them.
4
It appears that the parents of Texas have made their choice and they're willing to sacrifice their children for their guns.
64
When people the members of the religious right don't like are shot such as at that the nightclub in Florida, many have claimed that it's God's punishment on them.
Curious how none of them have said that about this shooting in a school which seems to come perilously close to defying the Supreme Court decision banning organized school sponsored prayer.
I wonder how many of the dead in this shooting will be returned to life because people like Trump and the NRA toadies in Congress and state houses say they are praying for them. Of course, as the old saying goes, talk is cheap.
3
Perhaps the Civil War's outcome should be revisited, and it's time to let the South secede. Like a bad marriage, it seems the South and the North are mutually holding each other back from living as they want to live. Of course this has its benefits, as it checks our craziest impulses, but at some point a marriage gets bad enough that divorce should be considered.
8
I can't think of anything more Satanic than guns.
37
Anti-Gun Backlash after the Santa Fe school shooting. Where I have heard that before? Sandy Hook, Parkland, Las Vegas, Virginia Tech, Columbine? How many more tragedies need to occur? Only the cast changes, the place changes and the names of the victims change. But the sudden end to human beings, innocent human beings caught unaware remains the same.And like all tragedies there is the certain backlash which peters out after two weeks. America is getting to be the world's greatest hypocrites even our own citizens. The country's leaders, politicians shed a few crocodile tears and then go back to the own business to fill their own coffers. Human lives are expendable but the guns are not. The gun rights are more important than the victims' right to life.
24
The article says they are still proudly displaying The Confederate flag in this part of Texas. That really illuminates their views on more than just guns and gun control and their resistance to change. Quite a stark contrast to the students in Parkland isn’t it? No student leaders in this situation- just quietly and staunchly following in the good ol’ boy ways of dad and mom.
74
@James Osborne:
On the contrary, one of the surviving students exemplified leadership when he not only described what he knew but also confessed that he hadn't recognized the danger the school was facing:
***
A student who survived the Texas school shooting on Friday has spoken out about the accused gunman, saying that he was 'emotionally bullied' by his classmates and coaches.
Dustin Severin, an 11th-grade student at Santa Fe High School, told KRIV that the suspected shooter, 17-year-old Dimitrios Pagourtiz, was constantly teased at school, but that he believed it never escalated into anything physical.
"I know he's picked on by coaches and other students. He didn't really talk to anyone," he told the station. "My friends from the football team told me that coaches said he smelled, like, right in front of his face. And other kids would look at him and laugh at him ... nothing like physical but they still emotionally bullied him."
"I never thought he would just snap and shoot up the school," Severin added. "He didn't seem like he was a hateful person."
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/santa-fe-high-school-student-202330470.html
***
Kudos to Dustin. His courage in criticizing the school and his classmates contains the seed for usefully intelligent action to be taken at Santa Fe.
I find the "little cowboy logic" of S. A. Miller pretty interesting. He said: "You can't protect yourself by taking guns away from good people." Two things:1) where was the good mythical NRA good guy with a gun? Once again he did not show up. 2) True you can not protect yourself if you take the gun away from good people, but you can protect yourself if you take the gun away from the BAD people. But then if you take the gun away from the BAD people, the sales of gun will drop. Right? Could be bad for the gun industry which sponsor the NRA and their political allies like S. A. Miller.
Oliver Paper Shredder North is blaming the violent movie. I am surprise that he is not blaming the violent video game also. Well, in my country Canada, we can play violent video game, watch violent movie and guest what? We do not have school massacre every month, In fact we did not have one this year yet.
54
How many citizens were saved by having a gun in the home?
3
This is another blood sacrifice for the worship of the second amendment and the cult of guns. Until common sense gun laws are passed, we will continue to have these tragedies. This would include holding adults responsible if a minor obtained access to guns unlawfully.
87
The term "common sense gun law" doesn't mean anything. "Common sense gun laws" would not have prevented this latest slaughter.
The 2nd Ammendment needs to be scrapped full stop!
Nobody has an absolute right to a firearm and no person is a militia unto themselves.
If people with school children love their guns so much that they won't vote to remove legislators who protect the NRA, why should the rest of us care?
Nothing is ever going to change in this country.
28
"In Texas, there is no widespread vocal pressure and activism from the families and students themselves."
OK, then. You make your choices and live with the consequences. Hopefully.
48
Repeal and replace the Second Amendment with one that gives Congress the power to regulate the ownership, possession, and use of firearms.
57
No, no, no. The Congress we have right now would make concealed carry obligatory everywhere (except in their own hallowed halls, of course).
Congress already has the power to regulate the ownership, possession and use of firearms, as do the various states.
They can't ban them outright or seize them. Those actions would required a new Amendment, which won't happen as just 13 states can prevent that.
So nothing will change.
Correct. Congress already HAS the power to REGULATE weapons, as the 2nd A clearly states. The question then becomes, why have so many conveniently chosen not to follow that portion of the 2nd A. 'Well-regulated' should mean exactly what it says.
When a father can leave a gun and ammo within easy access of his MINOR son (Santa Fe), I don't call that 'well-regulated'.
When an 18-year old can march into a store and purchase an AR-15 so long as he passes an 'instant background check' (Parkland), I don't call that 'well-regulated'.
When a man can purchase dozens of weapons, thousands of rounds of ammo, bumpstocks, etc. and with no National Database in place to record, analyze and flag such a grossly disturbing purchasing pattern (Vegas), I don't call that 'well-regulated'.
Do you know what I believe caused this shooting? Kinder Eggs. The lack of Kinder Eggs in America. You have taken them out of your homes, your schools, the hands of your children, and now? Mass shootings everywhere! Other countries like Canada and Germany that have Kinder Eggs don’t have mass shootings like this. It must be the children’s grocery item!
Obviously, that was sarcasm. I truly am sorry for the loss of all of those who died and who suffer due to this tragedy. However, for people to blame video games, prescription medications, even doorways? To say that the problem isn’t that this kid’s father had multiple guns and tons of ammunition unsecured in his house, but that more people needed to have more guns and ammunition, unsecured in the school? That’s outlandish.
Listening to this conversation, it sounds like “everything is on the table” - except actually taking away the one weapon that was created to kill people. To the point of talking of putting children in literal prisons to go to school.
From this side of the border, that sounds like a group of people who love their chunks of metal more than they care about their offspring. But that isn’t true.
It’s just a group of people who need to stop thinking of guns as an inevitability or an ideology, and start thinking of them as just a tool that either isn’t doing it’s job or is getting too dangerous to use.
29
They love their guns more than they love other people’s children. If my hobby caused so much havoc, I would take up something else.
8
“We wonder why this is happening,” he said. “Satan’s right there. He’s always putting his foot in everything.”
This is the mindset that keeps us from getting anything proactive done. Blame Satan and walk away.
175
Texas gets what it deserves.
Abbott, Cruz, Gohmert.
Why did so many deadly shootings happen in Texas?
Lets start with Dallas 1963.
1
"If one of the teachers had a gun, we would have been a lot better off".
Oh, really? Ronald Regan was surrounded by heavily armed secret service agents, expertly trained to anticipate and respond to a shooter. How did that work out?
25
The school resource officer was himself shot, even though he fired at the shooter. I read that police arrived in 5 minutes, and for 30 minutes the shooter continued. In this case the "good guy with a gun" narrative was obviously false.
13
What backlash should there be? What gun law that has been proposed would have prevented this? Not only could he not have bought a gun legally anyway, but he used a stolen shotgun and a very small caliber handgun. A ban of these, rarely make it to the soundbites and talking points for "DO SOMETHING!" rhetoric.
So unless you are proposing that all gun ownership is to be banned, the second amendment scrapped, and the 300 million legally owned guns are to be confiscated door to door, then you aren't really saying much of anything. You are engaged in little more than weaponizing a tragedy to smear and demonize people you disagree with.
If Texas is a state you hate because its filled with people who don't agree with your political beleifs, then have the courage of your convinctions to say so. Don't pretend there is some kind of reasonable law that would have prevented this, if only Texas wasn't so terrible.
17
A ban on guns may well have prevented this, as well as a hefty number of the 33,000 annual deaths by firearms.
That's the solution. But you won't agree to it, hiding behind the false assertion that "nothing works."
23
Right, because gun control laws have failed in every other civilized country around the world. Oh wait...
33
The shooter stole the gun he used during his killing spree, from his father.
Dare I point out that the father obviously didn't secure his guns?
Dare I point out that it is unlikely Texas law requires gun owners to secure their weapons?
I feel bad for the kids growing up in this type of gun culture. They actually believe that no gun law could have prevented this tragedy.
They have been lied to. A law requiring gun owners to secure their weapons could have prevented this.
Let the father be charged with murder.
59
As I previously wrote, guns are these people's way of life -- and way of death. Let these gun-loving kids have what they want -- and bear the consequences. If we protect people from the consequences of their choices -- as in the bank bailouts -- they will never wise up. And heaven knows, Texas (and red state schools) need a whole lot of wisening up.
22
I ask the Parkland School Board this:
"How did someone with 2 (!!) guns get inside your school?"
3
Texas needs to open up a discussion about gun laws and proper ownership responsibilities.
It's not the old west anymore, they need to show this country and the world we are responsible people.
14
Even in the old west it wasn't this bad - massacres in schools, churches, theaters. The world sees us for what we are: a thoughtless, irresponsible, and dangerous country.
28
In the "Old West" many towns required everyone to leave their handguns and sometimes long guns with the local law when they came to towns.
Of course there will be no efforts to limit access to guns in Texas. Several years ago, I was outside of San Antonio and stopped at grocery store and observed that high powered rifle cartridges were for sale in the cashier's line where one normally finds chewing gum, candy bars and other ubiquitous items.
That must indicate how mainstream guns are in that culture.
50
How many more shootings will it take until this country does the smart thing, and ban guns? We are laughed at by every other country in the world! No one can understand how this happens over and over again, and yet nothing is done. More guns is not the answer. NO guns is the solution. take the 2 amendment and stuff it.
18
The US is utterly devoid of the introspection to trace how the legal ubiquity of killing tools constitutes embrace of their use.
9
Oh its that easy is it? Just snap your fingers, remove the second amendment, done and done, right?
What of the 300m guns in circulation? You going to join in on those door to door confiscations?
What is your plan to find and round up these guns? Given that in many, if not most states, the sales of longguns are not even recorded, and person to person sales of any gun longer than a handgun is without papertrail?
Are you going to compensate all these confescated guns? These people legally paid money to buy them, afterall. You going to pay for it? Someone has to. Who determines the value of the gun? What of rare, expensive, custom ones?
What happens to those who deny having guns that you cant prove they have? Are we to fill our prisons up even more with the many gun owners who fail to turn them in? Aren't you types always saying how we need to stop throwing so many innocent people in prison?
Clearly, those of you parroting these "simple solutions" haven't really thought through the logistics of the reality we live in. The whole debate is just based in emotion rather than logic.
1
Terribly sad to see this picture and the inaction it symbolizes by those people on their own behalf - not to mention the misguided comments made by some of those directly affected. Rather than modify man-made laws in order to protect themselves and their own, they stand completely motionless, paralyzed, with heads bowed. Have they not tried prayer before in response to shootings of children and countless other atrocities? If so, they must be satisfied with it as an effective preventative measure. Again: tragic.
84
I'm pretty sure at least half the voting population of Texas favors stricter gun laws. According to this article, way down near the bottom, far away from that weirdly tilted headline.
18
Yes, I believe here in Houston at least half would favor stricter gun controls. The thing is that the districts are so gerrymandered up. They take Democratic leaning districts of Houston, Austin, etc. splinter them up and combine them into the heavily conservative areas outside of town so that the Democrats have little voice.
25
Let us pray, even if god doesn’t care about this, is impotent to act, or is entirely evil. Oh wait, I forgot about his mysterious ways.
Meanwhile, let’s enact mandatory registration, gun owner licensing, legal liability, and insurance, none of which violate the holy 2nd Amendment.
20
Not sure that would stand up either
A weapon would include the cartridges, so it would appear the 2nd applies there.
Insurance/liability may work. A usage factor would probably make it very inexpensive for most owners. But putting a “tax” on the use of a weapon may also violate the 2nd. “Shall not be infringed is a tough standard.
1
Tie guns to property. No property no need for a gun. Property as in land with a house on it. A car is property but that’s not of a big enough buy in.
1
So is “in order to form a well regulated militia” but somehow we manage to ignore that standard.
Requiring liability insurance isn’t a tax. It’s one of the many benefits of living in a litigious society. But I acknowledge your point.
But what about licensing (with requisite demonstration of skills and safety knowledge) and registration at low or nominal costs?
1
I think that the parents of the children (minors) who have unfettered access to guns should be prosecuted. There is something wrong in that the parents don't actively police weapons with children. There is something seriously wrong with these parents as well.
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Very few states criminalize the unsafe storage of guns. The NRA reaches even into the home.
2
Absolutely spot on! I have not seen any commentary yet suggesting the father should be tried as the accomplice to this slaughter.
What is the difference between a gangster giving someone a gun or a father leaving a gun around if the result is the same?
Every day, a negligent parent causes the death or maiming of a child with a gun and there are no charges.
Shame!
3
@G. Lewis:
The parents of this child have a second child whom they had to pull out of Santa Fe High and transfer to another school -- because she was being bullied. And we learn from a child survivor of this tragedy that the shooter had been emotionally bullied by school coaches although he stood that stoically. In light of these facts, perhaps you are focusing too much on the parents' flaws and not enough on those of the school's leadership?