And you took your wife and infant children to see the protest at a point of contention. What EXACTLY were you expecting?
4
An "Uneasy Calm"? Really?
Let's forget about the Islamic holy month of Ramadan and general prohibition of fighting while fasting. It's a dick move to move the embassies over during ramadan.
Let's also turn a blind eye to how Isreal was formed. Jewish Zionism/Terrorism and reckless slaughtering. And now, they are rewriting history and doing away with the Balfour Decree. If they do that, why should any treaty or agreement made in the last 200 years matter? Do we not want a more peaceful, just world?
I guess the world really likes supporting the jewish terrorist state of Isreal. I don't like supporting reckless slaughtering or terrorism, but seeing Isreals success kind of pushes me towards ISIS.
This morning, Hamas announced that 50 of the 62 or so dead were Hamas operatives, and Islamic Jihad announced that 3 of its members also died. Several perished in a firefight with the IDF. Does that change anyone's calculus? Reports and video below in Arabic and in English.
In Arabic: http://alaqsavoice.ps/news/details/203028
In English: https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-official-50-of-the-people-killed-in-...
7
Calling the Hamas rioters "unarmed' is ludicrous. They are armed with sling shots (get hit in the head and tell me how you feel) fire bombs (get burned by gasoline jelly and ...) and some AK-47s. The IDF is responding, not instigating. If the people of Gaza want change, then get rid of the murderous Hamas, they voted them in. Sending your children to die in a cynical attempt to keep Hamas viable is horrendous. How is Israel supposed to live with that?
Hamas offers nothing but death and misery.
6
Billions of dollars sent to Gaza to be invested in infrastructure projects have been purloined by Hamas terrorists to purchase rockets and construct tunnels instead of creating greenhouses, factories, schools and medical facilities.
Around 20,000 Islamist gangsters are holding 2 million people hostage in Gaza. Their tunnels, missiles and rockets are blocked by Israeli security so they use Palestinian children as shields hoping their deaths will provoke the world.
9
Thinking merely as a fellow human being, I am deeply pained and disturbed by the deaths of so many Palestinians, but more so by the utter disregard, contempt, and hatred Israelis show for the life of Palestinians... Israelis, the very people who suffered so much throughout history, now hurting Palestinians so much, inflicting so much pain on the Palestinian people... Is this your true sense of historical justice? This is what your sacred religion teaches you? You say you are a chosen people? Perhaps so, but it seems for all the wrong reasons...
When a human life is devalued, all human lives are devalued. When an Israelis devalues the life of a Palestinian, he devalues the lives of all of us. Please stop the killing. You are killing us all.
1
Here is an opening line from a Reuters piece October 2017 "The deputy head of the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas vowed to keep close ties with Israel’s arch-enemy Iran and to maintain its weapons, Iranian media reported on Sunday, rejecting Israeli preconditions for any peace talks." Hamas vows to MAINTAIN ITS WEAPONS and REJECTS PEACE.
7
The biggest laugh of the day was Turkey condemning what it called Israel's "genocide" of the Palestinians.
Turkey still jails anyone in its country who has the temerity to mention its mass killing of Armenians a century ago which the whole rest of the world has long considered genocide.
5
From reading the comments below, it’s obvious that few are well-informed as to the actual history of this region. The knee-jerk ‘blame Israel’ reactions completely ignore the historical facts because....Jews. Yes. It always boils down to that, doesn’t it?
6
Killing people by sniper fire in their on their own land and apparently unarmed is cowardly.
1
Clearly the New York Times doesn't know the difference between terrorists & protesters.
6
I blame Hamas for brainwashing young Palestinians into making a pointless run at the fence and getting young people killed. Trying to breach the fence is a loser's game.
8
We have heard this ridiculous excuse to murder people over and over, "we have a right to defend ourselves" and then that nonsense is parroted by the U.S like a clone. Everybody and every nation has the same right.
What happened is shameless and a form of savagery because those 60 individuals were nothing more than target practice, including children, for bloodthirsty well trained assassins. Have they ever heard of: Give me your mercy not your sacrifices? Obviously not!
How on earth can their God , who supposedly gave them someone else land,can look down on this pattern of barbaric and inhumane behavior and be please. I am embarrassed for them and their God. I could not serve a spirit that harden the heart and cloud the mind to the point that these people feel no remorse, their actions, often wrong and inhumane, are blinded by arrogance. When anyone think of Isreal what comes to mind is death and slavery.
Shameless, no excuse and I do hope Ivanka was horrified. How can any Christian condone such madness and call themselves Christian. Thomas Paine got it right in his book "Common Sense."
2
Religion and hatred towards each other is the main cause. And they must co-exist peacefully. This sham must come to an end. Hamas should be responsible for the provoking of sentiments and agitating Israelis but Israel is also at fault. They should offer opportunities of economic development there too.
1
Israel is approximately the size of New Jersey. The numbers of Gazan protesters (rioters) compared to Israeli citizens is roughly equivalent to 1,745,000 (nearly 2 million!) people “protesting”/rioting on a limited area of the US border.
6
This violence at the Gaza border was organized and orchestrated by Hamas terrorists, even pro Palestinian sources like KPFA admit that. People who blame Israel should be honest and ask themselves: what would any other sovereign nation do if 40,000 people, many of them terrorists, tried to breach their border and break into their country. Trump ordered the national guard to the Mexican border when 150 or so refugees from South America approached it. What would he do if 40,000 people tried to cross our border violently, which is what has happened in Gaza? The deaths are regretful, but the blame should be put clearly on the shoulders of Hamas, who organized this violence.
7
Let’s say you’re right, Eva, that the protests were a cynical public relations ploy by Hamas: why on earth did the IDF so willingly take the bait and gun down so many protestors, while a horrified world watched on, via video? Hamas may be a cynical, calculating organization, but they certainly seem to know well the racial prejudices and likely response of their Israeli foes.
I wish Palestinians would stop trying to cross the border illegally. They (and we all) understand the rule of law. It seems liberals think its okay to break the law when it benefits them. In saddened by death, but I also believe in consequences. Without that we have anarchy.
3
So, how does the world deal with two bullies on the world stage, particularly since the U.S. overruled this issue being taken up at the U.N. Security Council? I don't sense that Americans understand the issues to this day.
I am not sure "Protest" is the right word - It's more like a violent provocation to make Israel show force - I suspect orchestrated by Hamas to get some more of those sympathetic dollars rolling in so they can buy more arms. Make no mistake -if you look at the long list of Hamas Suicide Bombers and now sending children in to a conflict area- the only thing Hamas cares about is the P.R. and the money it will bring. I do feel sorry for the Gazans - because with Hamas in power - rather than being protected, Gazans are being offered up for sacrifice.
10
Poor Israel. Forced to kill 60 protesters and send a thousand to hospitals. How many Israelis were killed? None? Poor Israel, forced to close off Gaza to jobs and commerce and electricity and hospitals. After experiencing the holocaust, It's nice to have someone to beat, torture, kill, and steal from.
1
to Douglas - When you send in over 100 suicide bombers (starting in 2000) into Israel that kill hundreds of Israelis - you get a wall. When you then continue to assault Israel by launching rockets and missiles - you get your border closed off. When you insist on using your ports to import more missiles and rockets from Iran - you get that sealed off too. Poor Gaza - they can't seem to connect the dots that the situation in which they now find themselves is due to their continued assault on Israel.
8
In all of the stories and coverage of the pain and suffering happening inside Gaza and the protests against Israel, it is almost never mentioned that the main cause of the economic strife is horrendous governance. Hamas is a terrosist organization with only one goal, replacement of the existing population of Israel with a Palestinian one.
They take every dollar of international aid and use it to build tunnels and arm their fighters. Any cement that was sent through to rebuild homes was used underground. Money that is sent to pay welfare, salaries, food, water, is spent on this fantasy war to reclaim the land.
Think about the stark differences between the two populations. A small group of settlers came to Israel and began building a nation. One step at a time, the country and its democratic institutions were born and nurtured. More people came and the country grew into a powerhouse both of intellectual might and military. In what reality will israel allow itself to be destroyed?
Even Egypt has closed its border with Gaza and is even more brutal with its restrictions than israel. But again, Egypt’s role is also never mentioned. The people of Gaza need to rise up and oust the Hamas leadership that has destroyed its lives.
Hamas won an election in 2007 and does not open new elections. Their corruption is legendary and their tactics to control the population are even more brutal than you can imagine. These facts remain buried under the easier story of Israel’s “occupation”.
9
In none of the stories I've seen or read have I heard any reporter ask the protesters or the Hamas leaders why if the protests are about their not being allowed to leave Gaza there aren't similar protests being staged at the Gaza-Egypt border as the Egyptians have their side of Gaza just as bottled up as the Isrealis have theirs and for the same security reasons.
And the reporters don't seem very skeptical about the protesters all denying Hamas had anything to do with the protests while not noting that Hamas has the habit of executing anyone in Gaza who disagrees with them.
Finally as to the Palestenians claim they were forced out of Israel when its independence was declared. In fact, Israel offered everyone then in the country the right to remain. However, as most Arabs and much of the world didn't expect Israel to survive, they thought leaving was only temporary and didn't want to appear to be siding with Jews and face reprisals for doing so.
And Jews were kicked out of the Arab countries where many had lived for hundreds of years. Unbelievable as it may seem now, most of the Arab countries once had vibrant Jewish communities.
10
As night follows the day, so does Nemesis follow Hubris
There is no getting away from the Karma you bring into being.
One of these days, sooner than you can imagine, the state of Israel will be driven into the sea.
I won't say it's right but I will understand.
3
But you’d stand idly by? That strikes me as hypocritical (and frightening)
4
It saddens me that people find the killing of Palestinians justified. War is horrible for peace to exist there needs to be mutual understanding. Not bullies like trump. Killing of unarmed Palestinians or protesting Palestinians even Palestinians with explosive kites is not justified. On one side you have military on the other is folks like you and me who want a better life. Shame that people would rather have war than get over their egoes and bridge for peace.
9
How about Palestinians with guns and bombs melding in with the unarmed who just want destroy the fence and swarm into Israel. What then? Mow them down? They are not looking for a better life, unless you think destroying Israel will give them a better life.
8
It may be years, decades before we know the answer to this question. Did the Trump administration intentionally pick this date to move the embassy to add further insult to the Palestinians?
5
14 May is the 70th anniversary of the founding of the state of Israel, in modern times.
The date was chosen to make it more special and poignant.
3
It seemed like a good idea at the time. Who knew this was Nakba Day?
In six months time Hamas will continue its targeted killing of Israeli civilians and use today’s deaths, which they instigated, as justification for their suicide bombings.
7
How would you feel if the US government fired on unarmed Mexicans approaching our southern border? Fired on them while they were still in Mexico? Could we make the claim that we couldn't figure out any other way to defend our border? The claim that Israel is merely defending itself is ludicrous and rests on the all too common view that some lives are worth more than others.
25
If there was a decades long history of suicide bombings on public buses and pedestrian malls, rockets and explosives tossed over the border into US towns and cities, tunnels dug, and these "unarmed Mexicans" in your hypothetical scenario were lobbing Molotov cocktails and sending burning kites over the fence, and rushing said fence en masse with the express intent to wipe the USA "from sea to shining sea", what would you have the US do, nothing? Please.
11
Unarmed? Perhaps you should read the article.
3
Not at all like Mexico-USA border. People trying to enter US from Mexico are not bent on nor do they repeatedly
declare that they intend to carry out the destruction of the United States of America (despite what Trump supporters and others may claim). They do not have tens or hundreds or more terrorists in plain clothes among them and egging them on. They do not intend and state in their founding documents that they want to and believe they are directed by God to murder the majority of US citizens and especially not based solely on their religion. It is not the leadership of Mexico directing and orchestrating a mass incursion into the US to claim land, overthrow the US government, and murdering and/or expelling almost the entire population. If any of the aforementioned were true, and if numbers of them had already shown up armed with grenades and fire bombs and they made clear their ideological alliance with an equivalent of hitler or Khmer Rouge or the like (and US has never faced an entire regime that successfully sought to mass-murder all or 2/3 of American individuals — if those things were the intentions, actions, ideology, & type of leadership attempting to storm our border, & if there were close to 2 million people threatening to & actually starting to storm our border (this is roughly same ratio of Gaza “protester”-to-Israeli citizens), then most Americans would ask ICE/Ntl Guard/military to protect our persons, property, and form of government.
2
Defense Minister Avigdor Lieberman wasted no time reminding Israelis that their army was still the "most moral in the world."
A hundred unarmed protestors shot dead in a few days. How much more moral can you get?
15
The reporting in westernised countries borders on propaganda one side is good and the other side is evil beyond words. It was only 70 or so years ago the good side today was on the other side of the fence and the western world was horrified.
2
The bottom line is Hamas tries to kill Israeli civilians, while the Israeli army tries not to kill civilians. About a third of those killed were terrorists.
5
It is time Israel took responsibility for all of the problems between them and Palestine. This part of the country was a give away, in 1947 to be shared by Palestine and Israel. Israel managed to coheres and buy their way into more than was given to them. It got worse from there, ever taking land away from Palestine. Now the Palestinians are prisoners in their own piece of land, deprived of their lively hood, farms, jobs, water, infrastructure, all ruined by Israel. I have no sympathy for Israel and wonder why we, the US continues to pay huge amounts of money to Israel so that they can continue to deprive Palestinians fo their homes and land. I am sickened. I swear, a large population of the world feels the same. Money talks and unfortunately it seems to do well for Israel. This is so one-sided, always against Palestine. Time for Israel to stand up and admit your greed and depravity.
10
Tired of the lies? Truth is, Chamas, Iran, and many Arab nations simply want to destroy Israel. This includes most Palestinians. More truth: These are not 'protests'. They are armed insurrections by the terrorists Chamas attempting to infiltrate and destroy Israel. After the extreme violence perpetrated by Hamas-led Palestinians on Monday, the Israeli Defense Force had to prepare for another day of rioting on the Gaza border. Israeli Air Force (IAF) aircraft on Monday conducted strikes on 11 terror targets in one of Hamas’ military compounds in northern Gaza, following the mass violent riots on the border with Gaza.
Similarly, IDF tanks targeted two Hamas terror posts in Gaza, one from which shots were fired at IDF forces. The terrorists take world aid money and instead of using it to help its people, use it to fortify themselves to attack and destroy Israel. FACTS.
14
NPR reported on the burning kites: before being set on fire, the kites are decorated with swastikas to symbolize the burning of Jews and the destruction of Israel. Hamas does not recognize Israel as a nation and calls it a "Zionist occupation." Their mission is to "restore the rights of the Palestinian people under the sacred Islamic teachings of the Holy Quran." This is a religious war and always has been.
17
“This is a religious war and always has been.”
That’s what makes it in winnable.
Trump's Armageddon-inclined allies are certainly ecstatic. Franklin Graham? Jerry Falwell, Jr? Which branch of Christianity do they subscribe to?
3
More than an isolated few of these "peaceful protestors"carried and used firearms. Many appeared to be trying to start fires over the border, while some charged and tried to break through the fence.
A great majority of the protestors were probably unarmed. But who among us has the experience and expertise to weigh the risks and circumstances in such a situation? To many here that sympathize more generally with the Palestinians, the IDF employed excessive force. But to me, faced with the same threat along a border that has been crossed repeatedly by Hamas members to kidnap and kill, it seems that the failure to act aggressively would be tantamount to suicide.
29
Prior to the fence and the wall, Gaza sent suicide bombers in record numbers in to Israel and Gazans have continuously launched missiles and rockets in to Israel. This is anything but a peaceful protest....this just another example of Hamas killing it's own citizens so that the leaders can get more money from sympathetic countries (see Iran).
3
What if Israel were to give back a part of occupied Palestine and let the Palestinians exercise control over their own territory even if only a part of it? Then we would surely see what the prospects for a broader peaceare . Would the Palestinians use their territory to build a peaceful civil society with democratic and economic possibilities? Or would they use their territory as a military base to launch attacks against Israel in an effort to destroy it? Boy, if only there were some way of knowing.
11
It is called Gaza. Israel left Gaza 12 years ago. Hamas took over and has made it into one large military installation.
16
Not sure if you are serious, Alfonso. But for those who think you are:
That happened, It's called Gaza.
Israel unilaterally pulled out of Gaza in 2005. Things got bad in Gaza once Hamas and Fatah started to feud. When Hamas took over in 2007, the world recognized that Gaza was being run by terrorists.
Rather than focusing on the well-being of the people in Gaza, they have regularly wreaked havoc by launching rockets into Israel, spending precious monetary and construction resources to build invasion tunnels into Israel and Egypt and, now, using human shields to tear open the fence border so their militants can invade Israel and kill Jews (8 terrorists killed yesterday after breaking through the fence with weapons).
If only the Palestinians could exercise control over their own territory to build a peaceful society with democratic and economic possibilities.
11
you must have forgotten.
That was exactly the hope when Gaza was given to the Palestinians.
Guess we found out the answer,
2
I may be naive or ill informed but Id like to know some info about this terrible situation (and maybe others do as well):
To what extent does Hamas control the Palestinian population, ie to what extent is it true or not true that Hamas encourage the population to act and then potentially use the resulting images as "propaganda"? I mean real proof, not just pure speculation.
But then, even if we had that info, would it matter? Isn't it enough
that so Palestinians young & old risked & gave their lives in this symbolic protest the last few days?
Why is it such opposite narratives (either/or) in the American papers? I can't seem to find a middle ground to get some information.
Maybe it is that way with the opposing narratives of war but any info would be much appreciated.
1
I don’t think it’s necessarily true that because people are willing to risk their lives for a cause makes that cause morally/ethically right. Many German people were willing to die for the cause of Nazism, much of
the white population in southern US states were willing to risk their lives in order to preserve enslavement of Black people, the Spanish Catholic Conquistadors and missionaries risked their lives in support of, among other things, the forced conversion of indigenous North, Central, and South America. Their willingness to risk their lives, in and of itself, certainly did not make their cause just or moral.
6
Gaza is the world’s largest open-air prison. Its residents cannot travel and have no work. Desperate people do desperate things. Not all the demonstrators were “terrorists,” many were women and children. How can a bullet, fired at a target, tell the difference?
On the other side, Israelis are free to travel about their country and the world, they have food and shelter and the chance for an education. I suppose you might say, or an Israeli might say, that this was the Palestinians’ choice. People don’t make a choice to live in such ways.
These conditions will never change without sympathetic leaders who will guide a peace process. Mr. Netanyahu and Mr. Trump are not those people. The celebrations in Jerusalem were obscene and provocative. I know that there are many Israelis who feel the shame of this historical moment, just as there are many Americans who are appalled by our Mr. Trump.
16
What hogwash! There is a blockade from Egypt and Israel to prevent Hamas from going from 5000 to 150,000 missiles. Imports are restricted -- but only because Hamas uses materials to build tunnels, missiles, and explosives, rather than hospitals...
12
How much does a deluxe tunnel cost to make? One of those tunnels used not only to serve Hamas fighters in Gaza but hopefully for their part to break into Israel and attack? How many are there? How many have been destroyed and how much money poured into building new ones?
How much does the Hamas armament system cost?
Even assuming support from Iran and Qatar, there are fabulous sums of money being poured into a system whose one purpose is to destroy 1948 sovereign State of Israel.
How much did this last month cost? Including the $100 per day per participant that Iran has covered?
How much was lost when Hamas twice destroyed the gas pipelines at Kerem Shalom under PA control that supply Gaza?
And then you have inhabitants complaining that there are no jobs and no work. There is plenty of work in serving Hamas and being pawns in their PR game.
The more deaths, the better it looks for them.For Hamas, suffering and grief is good. It fuels anger.
Happy, working does not.
A viable agreement with the PA does not.
Bottom line: with Hamas ruling Gaza there will only be war and grief and that is not only with Israel.
15
Hamas is a terrorist organization in Gaza as well as in Lebanon (which used to be majority Christian!) and is spreading like the malignant cancer that it is. It is out to destroy all who do not acquiesce to it's demands and interpretation of islam. Witness what has happened in Syria with Muslim killing Muslim and Hamas is a major player there. It is all about power and territory; those following Islam who just want to live in peace or relative peace are often the victims of fear and terrorism themselves. These folks will stop at nothing to create "martyrs" both willing and unwilling to gain world wide sympathy. They hate! Moderate Muslims want nothing to do with them and neither does Egypt, Saudi Arabia and others (moderate being a relative term). And they with backing from Iran want to destroy Israel and the Jewish people. And for those posting here who profess to be Christian, remember, Jesus was a Jew!
11
Israel follows the playbook of every authoritarian ever:
We just want peace. If you obey every order we give you without question, there will be peace. Therefore, fighting back or even non-violently protesting our orders means you are anti-peace. Negotiating means you are anti-peace.
Us gunning you down means we are pro peace.
So, since Israel is killing protesters in what can only be described as a flagrant violation of international law, most likely a war crime, it's time for regime change there, right?
Come on, America, you guys LOVE regime change in the Middle East.
Let's do it. Yes, we can !
10
"Authoritarian"? - Israel is the only democracy in the region. "Non-violently protesting"? - are you even following the same story?
13
I would so appreciate it if somebody could tell me how Israel should have turned away this angry mob of 40,000 from its borders. Surely nobody really believes that this mob was peaceful and if they had actually breached the border, they would have been so nice to the Israelis. They certainly would have tried to kill as many Israelis as possible. So the question is: what should Israel have done about this mob?
13
The Times readers have spoken, and it is their opinion that the dead Palestinians brought it on themselves. Just as the millions of Native Americans who, in trying to defend their ancestral homeland, brought about their own extermination. It's always about power--who has it, who doesn't. And more than that, who has the most powerful and well-armed friends.
7
Indigenous Jews preceded invader Arabs in this region by 2000+ years. It’s not ‘Arab Land’ now, and never was. Equating Native Americans with Arabs calling themselves ‘Palestinian’ is ahistorical and mendacious propaganda.
13
In speaking about native people defending their ancestral homeland you're exactly referring to Jews defending Israel.
5
Dead wrong. That's not what it's about at all.
Its about unthrottled Jew hatred - again - and the refusal to accept that Jewish folk have a perfectly valid right to live in their ancestral homeland unthreatened.
4
Given the exceptional benevolence the United States has favored Israel for the last 50 years I ask the parents of the American Jewish community to strongly encourage their children of military age to volunteer to serve in the US armed forces and match the 1% volunteer rate of their non-Jewish American brethren: it’s going to be difficult, however, since this would require a Jewish enlistment of approximately 60 thousand men and women and there are current less than 5 thousands Jews serving in a combined US military of 1.2 million volunteers.
6
I don't understand the logic of this post -- why is military service by the American Jewish community related to the financial and logistical support that the U.S. provides to Israel? I ask this as a Jewish American who is also a veteran who served in the U.S. Armed Forces.
7
I thought your comment was an ironic joke. Almost every Jew I have met recently in the armed forces is a staunch supporter of Israel; not so much with Jews who would never dream of enlisting, here or in the IDF.
2
“I ask this as a Jewish American who is also a veteran who served in the U.S. Armed Forces.“
When did you serve, Joel? Jewish military service in the US armed forces has changed dramatically since American draft laws ended in early 1973.
I can't seem to find any info on how many Arabs surged the border. If anyone can fill me in I would appreciate it.
If you shift this scenario to the United States, if that many Mexicans charged the U.S. border, or if any country faced that kind of surge would they respond any differently?
Remember these are the people who gave us 9/11, killing and maiming people whose biggest surge was up the subway steps.
As for getting back their land, it was almost 70 years ago now. Get over it. Was it fair? Probably not. But these things happen all the time. So many more people all over the world have been displaced in those 70 years and most of those affected find someplace else to live and get on with their lives.
14
Get over it? Funny how the Jews didn't have to get over it after 19 centuries of absence. Weird how their claims determined the borders there, but 70 year old claims are just invalid?
Oh, and no Palestinian crossed the border. Every one killed or injured was inside the fence. And just to be clear - no Israeli was injured or killed during all this "self-defense."
A huge karmic debt is building up and will be due.
1
The 70th anniversary of the birth of the nation of Israel is also the 70th anniversary of the removal of the Palestinians from their home. What did the 'western allies' expect? Israel's creation was in fact a European invasion.
Now, everybody is paying.
30
CD - The Palestinians didn't lose their homes as the result of Israel's creation. They lost their homes as the result of the war they launched against Israel on the day of its creation, with the announced intent of destroying it.
11
You do know there was a large Jewish population in the parts of Palestine that are now Israel long before its creation.
6
Europe showed how much Jews need a state. It is appropriate that it be where the Jewish nation started and what they prayed for for 1900 years. Unfortunately, European Jews may again be in danger.
2
Why wasn't Egypt protested? Don't they destroy. Gazan tunnels?
Israel can protect herself; I fear for the Lebanese who, once again, find themselves in the middle of others ' battles.
7
Nikki Haley literally turns her back and walks out on the Palestinians and their representative at the UN - not even listening, as all diplomats should be obligated to do - is highly symbolic of America's hatred of the Palestinians (i.e. American evangelical and trumpian base - the rest of Americans don't matter). The callousness of America's current leadership is astounding. And we claim to be a Christian nation? A moral nation?
If I were oppressed in the way Palestinians are, I would ally myself with anyone - even the horrible "H" man, as despicable as he is - to fight back. Palestinians have nothing to lose so they have essentially no choice but to ally themselves with the worst that is out there.
What is America's current leadership's excuse for allying us to the worst, while trashing our best allies?
8
Don't buy into Israel's attempt to throw this on Hamas. Hamas is a consequence of Israeli & Zionist intrusion into Palestine. Hamas is merely one face of Arab reaction to facing something akin to genocide on their own ancestral territory. The US has done everything it can to assist the Zionist movement wipe the Arab reality out of Palestine. This is but one of the hideous foreign policy blunders of the USA. If you are fond of the goodness image of the USA, you will open your eyes to this history.
11
"A thing is not necessarily true because a man dies for it." - Wilde
14
Many commenters here are racist which can clearly be seen in their comment by switching topic to some other area, country or time of conflict instead of commenting on horrible war crimes committed by israeli army last few days. Shame on most world politicians except Turkey, South Africa and France; all others are such weaklings afraid to call it like it is; who are they afraid of war monger Trump?
9
Didn't you just do what you accused others of doing? Isn't there a word for that?
3
Jews have been discriminated against more than any other people. I am surprised that the Jewish people continue to support such right-wingnuts to run their government and to ruin the lives of generations of Palestinians.
At some point in time it is inevitable - yes, that is the right word - inevitable - that all Jewish people will suffer for this antipathy toward other human beings.
3
The Israeli gov't knew that the Palestinians would protest. they could have had a better plan than once again shooting at protesters like a carnival show. What the response says is that Netanyahu is so arrogant that he doesn't care what the world sees. Netanyahu has a cold heart.
12
What would you propose that they do?
11
Yes, please tell us what Israel should have done. I'm waiting.
3
Shooting demonstrators in the anklle? Israel's conduct towards the Palestinians is and has been shameful. What a mess.
23
It is a permanent reminder of what not to do in the future. Not only to the wounded but to others that see the injuries. Let's just call it a life lesson.
4
I suppose you would also support the slogan "Work will make you free." Just a life lesson, right?
1
Reader - In case you haven't figured it out, the Israelis shoot "demonstrators" in the ankle to avoid shooting them in the chest. That is, in case it still isn't obvious, to minimize the loss of life, even when the "demonstrators" are throwing Molotov cocktails at the soldiers. These weren't peaceful demonstrators carrying placards. They were violent rioters trying to breach the border fence with wire cutters under cover of burning tires. Open your eyes and watch some of the videos.
5
It’s enough to say that a country that’s occupying and oppressing a people has the right to defend itself. It’s enough saying that the so-called democratic state of Israel—a country which has been annexing Palestinian land, arbitrarily arresting Palestinians civilian, stealing Palestinian resources, building settlements and Israeli only roads in Palestinian land, controlling building permits in Palestinians territories, preventing basic medical supplies from entering into the Gaza Strip, taxing Palestinians on imports without representation—has the right to shoot and kill civilians who resist this brutal occupation.
We can sit here and support one people over another, and then look for facts to justify our support. Or, we can take a look at the facts, and then decide who we support:
Israel says it faces and existential threat from the Palestinians but it is the Palestinians who’s land is being stolen. Israel says it’s a democracy but continues to tax the Palestinians on imports and subjugate them to its brutal rule without giving them the right to vote. Israel says it built a wall because it faces threats from the Palestinians, but it continues to transfer its population into settlements on the other side of the wall. Israel says supports a two state solution but the Likud party’s platform flatly rejects a Palestinian state.
After 60 years of punishment and humiliation, the Palestinians need not sit and wait for our sympathy. They have every right to fight for freedo
16
Well, let them fight the Egyptians on the other side. See if that works any better.
6
So many inaccuracies. Start with the 60 years...
2
Protesters shouldn't have stormed the border then.
23
Exactly. Tell them to leave little children out of protest too and we might feel bad for them
10
And they should not have involved babies and children.
9
I was very sickened by the events of yesterday. The scenes of violence contrasted by the celebration of the embassy opening was immoral. The violence resembled the massacres during the fall of the British empire against the Indian population and the apartheid riots in South Africa. Israel can't believe that having 2 million people living in severe poverty just a few miles away is sustainable. I am so tired of Israel and the US argument of blaming Hamas and the Palestinians. It is clear that the Palestinians do not have the resources to provide services for their people especially with the blockades and travel restrictions. Israel's expansion into the occupied territories also shows their unwillingness to seriously negotiate for peace. I don't believe that the Palestinians sacrifice their children willingly. Instead they may feel they have nothing to lose. They need a Gandhi or Mandela but until then a multinational UN force should be brought into the conflict to maintain the border and mediate until the violence stops. This is my opinion as an American Jew.
12
You are tired because you do not need to defend yourself. Nobody is shooting rockets at you or trying to stab you when you walk on the street. People who are constantly attacked do not have the luxury of getting tired defending themselves. Israel has tried many times helping the Palestinians. Gaza strip was evacuated more than 10 years ago. They could have turned it to flourishing 'Singapore'.
UN forces were in that area several times and disappeared when an aggressor appeared (hint - not Israel). The latest is when ISIS started establishing itself in Sinai.
4
In 2005, Israel left Gaza. There was no blockade. Gaza declared war on Israel. Imported rockets and explosives and used them against Israeli civilians. Since 1949 no land near Gaza was taken by Israel.
1
Hello Ruby Tuesday. Maybe in your sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians you overlooked the half-million Syrians next door, killed by their own leadership. Half the country has fled. Do you notice any similarity between the Assad regime and Hamas? What do you think of the judgment of parents who take an infant into an area where it will be exposed to tear gas?
Ruby Tuesday, please consider what would happen on Wednesday if the Palestinian mob broke through the fence.
2
There are protests and there are protests. Perhaps, if the Palestinians knew about Martin Luther King, they would have peaceful protests and not get hurt. Israel is only defending itself.
32
Hamas is per definition a terrorist group. Not many non-violent terrorist groups. Even their non-violence is relatively violent.
3
What has happened is indefensible.
To me, this protest by the Palestinians looks pretty similar in spirit to the type of nonviolent protests that King was famous for.
The oppressed has become the oppressor and in so doing has squander their moral authority.
13
Does it seems that Hamas has any moral authority when it squanders the lives of the lemmings in Gaza in a call for martyrs? I don't know about you, but I've seen this farce played out too many times this week, too often to care. Protests? A bit too much, methinks.
2
This is a perfect moment for Jewish Voices for Peace, Students for Justice in Palestine, and the International Solidarity Movement to volunteer to be a buffer on the Gaza side of the border. Let's see if righteous indignation stands against rocks, firebombs, and live ammunition coming from the Gaza side.
11
What should Israel have done in the face of the 40,000 protesters (by some news estimates)?
The declared intention of these protesters and of Hamas was to breach the fence and enter Israeli territory, at the very least to kidnap soldiers. Given the murderous atmosphere, I expect the intentions extended to capturing and perhaps killing Israeli civilians living in the nearby villages as well.
Given that situation, what were the options of Israel? What should Israel have done? I see only 3 options and it appears to me Israel chose the one involving least loss of life, #1 below.
1. Do what they did, attempt to keep protesters from approaching the fence.
2. Allow protesters to approach the fence, which will inevitably result in the fence being breached in multiple spots. Protesters would then enter Israeli territory and the IDF would be faced with a much more chaotic and dangerous situation.
3. Allow protesters to breach the fence and enter Israel without resistance. Soldiers will be kidnapped, perhaps killed, and very likely the people living in nearby villages will be killed as well.
Oh yes, there is a 4th option. Israel can surrender, announce the end of its existence, tell all the Jews to return to the lands of their ancestors (which happens to include many Muslim majority countries where they will face lives of persecution), and turn over everything to Hamas. This 4th option is what Hamas is trying to achieve, per its 2017 charter.
Which option do you suggest?
41
How about the option of first, making adequate compensation and genuine atonement for the displacement and dispossession of hundreds of thousands of people, then making real efforts to create government institutions that will accommodate the claims and aspirations of all involved in either a one- or a multiple-state arrangement? It seems pretty obvious, yet in seventy years has not honestly been tried. The option Israel has always chosen instead--isolation, colonization, suppression, and brutalization in order to maintain the status quo will not work for another seventy years.
4
J Jencks
I think option 2 may have worked for this situation and allowed a peaceful controlled demonstration. This was such a predictable event with the combination of the opening of the embassy and the Palestinian holiday that checkpoints could have been set up with metal detectors. Israelis are very experienced in this sort of thing. Israel may not have lost any soldiers with their approach but permanent damage was done in terms of its moral standing in the world. This has been such a disaster for Israel in the world community that some heads should roll in the government (Mr PM). I don't know where you got your numbers but the number of protesters I heard on PBS were 14,000 not 40,000. At least 2300 injured. We do not yet know how many amputations resulted from the shootings. The wounded and disabled will be reminders of this terrible blunder for many years to come. Israel may never recover.
1
Just give back all the land they didn't steal. In 1948, Israelis had bought about 7% of the land they occupied. So, 93% returned, and we'll call it square.
1
Reading the comments saddens me. They are full of hate, particularly of Palestinians, without any empathy for the loss of their homes and their consequent displacement. And this is a liberal newspaper?
24
I'm not reading that in the comments. There are plenty of anti-Hamas comments, which is justified given that Hamas leadership told the protesters they should storm the fences, there were holes in the fences, etc.
13
Most Jews don't hate Palestinians. But they do hate the fact that Palestinian leaders continually refuse to engage in serious peace negotiations.
5
Forgotten in the usual fervor of anti-Israel hatred is that Israel could have employed more restraint *only* at the cost of increasing risk to its civilians and soldiers. The stated goal of the Gazans' action was to make incursions into Israel in the hope of killing or kidnapping Israelis. The methods used included use of human shields, rifles aimed at and firing on Israelis, slingshots hurling rocks and other projectiles at Israeli soldiers, airborn delivery of incendiary and explosive materials on Israelis, and huge black rancid smoke tire fires and mirrors reflecting sun into Israeli soldiers' eyes.
26
Hard to comprehend 60 dead and hundreds wounded in such a short amount of time. How can either side in such a society come to terms with that level of violence?
13
Israel can probably come to terms with the violence because they have to deal with it on a somewhat regular basis. Between 2002-2004 Hamas sent over 90 suicide bombers in to Israel to kill over 300 people. The Wall and the Fence solved that problem. Now the issue is the Iranian missiles and Rockets that Hamas fires in to Israel.
7
LarryBassett - In Syria, over the last 7 years, about 500,000 people were killed. That means that on average, almost 200 people are killed every day in Syria. Where is your shock and indignation about that level of violence? And Syria is not the most violent of conflicts, not by a long shot. I have to admire the Israelis for keeping the casualties as LOW as they have. Over the last thirty years of violent conflict, Israel has killed about 15,000 Palestinians. Compare that to any other major conflict. It's much, much smaller.
6
A whole day is not a short amount of time. The Las Vegas shooter killed as many in a few minutes.
4
I am embarrassed to be in a nation that actively supports such brutality. We are definitely in the wrong in doing so.
31
If by that you mean the nation of California, many of whose inhabitants support Israel-hatred whether explicitly or implicitly, I'd be inclined to be embarrassed with you.
5
Please apologize to the Japanese for the disproportionate use of nuclear bombs in World War II To save American lives
2
If people just stop having epidermal reactions and think clearly, they would understand that everybody, other than Hamas but including Israel, feels bad about the many death and wounded on the Israel border with Gaza.
The only one benefiting from yesterday's event is Hamas who once again has sent their youngsters to be harmed. The Hamas leaders are celebrating their public relations victory having successfully obtained sympathy from many who called themselves friendly towards Israel.
Israel does not get satisfaction of killing Arab Palestinians, unless they are part of terrorist groups, but it has made it very clear that it will defend its borders and citizens. Arab Palestinians have turned down all proposals of Statehood and continue to openly ask for Israel's annihilation, just as Iran does. But they do want the world to ask Israel to turn the other cheek.
Israel's biggest mistake yesterday was to fall in the Hamas P.R. trap.
While Israel is not perfect and should always learn to manage situations better, it is way less imperfect than its neighbors and let us no forget that most of Israel's hypocritical detractors, including Turkey and Iran, are the worst violators of human rights and of democracy.
38
Harry, good post. Thanks.
As far as falling into Hamas' PR trap, I really see only 3 possible options by Israel, for responding to the Hamas' protests and the option they chose, #1, probably represents the least loss of life.
1. Do what they did, attempt to keep the fence from being approached.
2. Allow protesters to breach the fence and attempt to control the situation after Gazans are on Isreali soil. This is very likely a much more chaotic and difficult situation to control.
3. Do nothing. Allow the fence to be breached and to have Gazans invade Israeli territory without resistance. This will certainly result in Israeli soldiers being kidnapped. It will also result in Israeli civilians being killed, as there are villages within 1/2 a mile of the fence.
As long as the world refuses to face its hypocrisy of buying into Hamas' message Israel has no "good" response to this situation. When the world castigates Hamas for using the people of Gaza as ammunition there may be a way forward.
16
This comment is programmatic and worse, skewed into the absurd. Hamas is only the head & voice .. of a people who have been driven off their homeland. The only leg the Israelis have to stand on is their right to a homeland. However that brings up a bigger truth: the one they chose is not theirs.
To grasp this: imagine it the other way around. Suppose Arabs try to steal the Israeli "homeland". And had the blind support of the USA.
6
Hamas, Hamas, Hamas, it's all their fault. What is poor Israel to do? How about asking why Hamas exists? If some one hates you, the smart thing is to ask why. Yes they are angry and militant, and, in general for very understandable reasons. Instead of brutal suppression, how about some introspection that might lead to CONSTRUCTIVE responses to the anger of Hamas?
2
What gave Israel the right to displace the Palestinians from the land after two thousand years? It was an historical claim based upon nothing stronger than two millenia of wishful thinking and a dubious Biblical interpretation. A day is coming when the claim will be deemed insufficient by the people of the world and the Palestinians will reclaim their land.
26
Jews are the indigenous people of the Land of Israel, like it or not. It's no coincidence that "Judaism" and "Judea" are almost the same word. And if you don't know where Judea is, find it on a map.
Wishful thinking and dubious interpretation? It's actually historical fact and verified archaeology.
14
You've stated the facts exactly accurately. The people of the world have colluded in an illogical, unjust, and criminal seizure of an already owned and populated land.
I hope you are right with your prediction that the Palestinians will reclaim their land.
5
You are re-writing history in your characterization of what happened.
Regardless, international law and the agreements made within the United Nations, by its member countries, gave Israel the right to exist.
That is the legal basis for Israel's existence. If you wish to challenge it you need to challenge the legal structure that put it in place, the UN, the treaties signed by various countries as part of being UN members, etc.
By the way, did you know that there are almost as many Muslims living inside Israel (1.8 million), with full rights of Israeli citizenship, as there are Muslims living in Gaza (2 million)?
Can you guess how many Jews live in Gaza?
13
So their end game was showmanship and garnering world attention? Yes, they did a remarkable job, and let's face it, the western world is probably more enthralled with them than many folks in Arab countries. But, did the western press explain why they have those blockades in place? Read up on the multi attempts by Iran (mostly) to smuggle in weaponry by sea, even at the border crossings, covered up by distracting merchandise. Should we allow Iran to fly in all that contraband, by funding a brand new airport? And does the western press take the time to inform its so sympathetic readers as to the still relevant contents of the Hamas Charter, vis a vis its attitude toward Israel and Jews? Of course not. That would serve to bolster Israel's argument that they are dealing with people whose hatred is limitless, who will never accept any Jewish state of any size, and have successfully inculcated this belief system for over 4 generations. What a monumental achievement.
25
Rosalie, it's a question of where you start the narrative. Hamas hates us so we have to defend ourselves. OR: We displaced and dispossessed hundreds of thousands of people, so they hate us, and maybe we should think of a more constructive response to their understandable hatred than suppression and brutality.
2
What is so sad is how ignorant many are as to what exactly Hamas is up to. Their intent is to invade Israel and wipe it out. They make this perfectly clear. You should believe them when they say this.
No other country in the world would be expected to stand back and allow their soldiers to be attacked, the border fence destroyed, soldiers kidnapped, fields set on fire and towns and cities invaded and attacked. Why is this expected of Israel? Why are they supposed to stand back and allow this to happen?
Hamas uses their own people. They delight when young people are wounded or killed as it makes for great PR. They use their children as human shields. They have ordered the destruction of the gas lines inside of Gaza. They ordered the destruction of the shipping area inside of Gaza. Today they turned away trucks with food and diapers. Why do you suppose they would do this? Not because they want to portray Gazans as starving and sitting in the dark with no gas to cook with by any chance?
I am disgusted with the articles written by the NYT among others which totally miss the point of just what Hamas is up to. The nasty comments made vilifying Israel are beyond the pale.
Nothing in Gaza will change unless the people of Gaza decide they want to elect leaders that aren't terrorists and actually care about their people. When they are ready to do this they will find Israel ready to work with them. There is no way to make this happen without a change in the leadership of Gaza.
49
Your justification of Israeli atrocities is something we've all heard again and again, ignoring the fact that these Palestinian people have been held prisoner in their own land for 70 years. Can you imagine what Jews would do if the situation were reversed? Let's imagine for a moment that the Palestinians and Arabs had won an earlier war with Israelis and had fenced in and held hostage two million Israelis for 70 years because the Palestinians didn't trust or want the Jews threatening Palestine. And when the Israelis demonstrated their frustration and alienation, the Palestinian military shot them with live ammunition, tanks and war planes. Do you have the capacity to see the situation differently? Will American Jews approve anything and everything that Israelis do to harm and humiliate and denigrate the Palestinian people under endless occupation by Israel?
8
Let's get the facts straight. Gaza belonged to Egypt less than 70 years ago. After 1967, residents of Gaza worked in Israel for a number of years. Jews moved into Gaza as well. When Israel left Gaza in 2005, there was an opportunity to see just how much the Palestinians wanted peace.
Hamas, which has run Gaza since, has shown not so much.
2
The world and many Israeli Jews know exactly what it would be like, because it has already happened to them, again and again.
And there are in fact many Israeli Jews whose families have lived in those lands for many centuries as well.
And by the way, are all of you calling for or hoping for the demise of Israel and Israeli Jews prepared to welcome the millions of Jewish refugees (those who survive) with land and jobs and full citizenship and social benefits and freedom of religion etc?
And where is your pointed critique of the Islamic Republic of Iran (which advertises its non-inclusive human-rights-abusing nature in its very name? Where is your call for the demise of current-day North and many South American nations, as many of their citizens and most of their power brokers are and have been people from Europe (UK, France, Spain, Germany, etc) who have zero historical claim to those continents, save a tiny Viking outpost, except through pillage, er um pilgrims, oh and Conquistadors....
4
Another winning Palestinian action with their dispossessed youth paying the bill. Many they can learn from the tea party and win elections big and small, infecting the system from within. It's a long game but more likely to yield large favorable results for the Palestinian and Israeli people.
3
I work and pay taxes.
Some of that money goes to the wealthy state of Israel.
They love to boast about their brilliant economy, yet they are on American welfare.
My labor pays for Israeli weapons.
It sickens me.
More and more I believe that maybe Israel is the premier terrorist state.
It is certainly the apartheid state.
51
Yes, I’d feel so much better if my tax money wasn’t going to the defense. After all, if the Palestinians can wreak this much havoc with rocks, fire, and slingshots, just imagine what they could accomplish with funding from the United States? For all their efforts, they should at least get to enjoy a few casualties, right?
Does the term “anti-semitism” mean anything to you. True as what you say is, you can’t say what you just said. Israel took out a patent on the term and the truth violates the terms of that patent. Sorry, it’s the Law.
1
It's too bad you evidence neither historicity nor intellectual honesty.
Israel is the most multi-racial and -cultural spot on earth with the possible exception of Queens, NY. In Israel, all of those races and cultures have human and civil rights we associate with western democracies, including voting and due process rights. Israel does not execute, not even terrorist mass-murderers. Calling Israel "apartheid" shows ignorance, demeans South Africans who knew apartheid, and is nothing but a line from the script written by those avowed to destroy Israel by any and all means.
Israel gets major U.S. military aid, because it is a staunch ally that comes through and because Israel faces extraordinary military threats and challenges on multiple borders. In return, Israel gives the U.S. unparalleled military, security, and intelligence benefits. Two quick examples are first-rate HUMINT (look up if unfamiliar) on Middle East developments (check out what President Trump divulged early on in his Administration); and real-world military experience (an unfortunate by-product of Israel's being at war with sworn terrorist enemies), for example with bullet-hitting-bullet rocket interception technology. Also, almost all U.S. military aid to Israel must be and is spent on U.S. military purchases. Ask anyone in the know about military workings if you don't believe me, but obviously you don't know anything about it.
5
I am as horrified as any of you at the needless bloodshed. But I would blame Hamas before I blame Israel. Israel has repeatedly warned the citizens of Gaza that if they attempt to penetrate the border, they risk getting shot at. This is something that Israel cannot and should not bend on. I have seen the Gaza border from a Kibbutz inside Israel. If any Hamas militants manage to breach the border and there are many Hamas militants among the protesters, it will be only a short run before they encounter innocent Israeli citizens. Obviously Israel cannot let this happen. Israel is using as much restraint as possible. They are shooting only when neccesary and then, shooting to disable, not kill. Obviously, when there are thousands of protesters, accidents happen. In fact, both Israel and Hamas have stated that a high percentage of those killed have been Hamas militants. I have seen may people argue that Israel has acted disproportiantely, but I have not seen anyone offer a credible alternative.
43
A credible alternative is for Israel to let these people have a life, freedom and decency--and a free state of their own.
6
Restraint,
Shooting in the back, shooting & killing a 14 year old? Killing someone in a wheel chair, someone with a sling shoot?
trump has given them permission to shoot, and kill or wound without restraint, without caring about the outcome. How many of soldiers have been killed in the last few days? That tells you everything.
4
Why would any sane parent who cares about their children's welfare and safety expose them to such a dangerous arena. No one has commented about the aftermath if the mobs of people who attempted to enter Israel actually did. Once they breached the fence then what. Again I ask what would be the reason to storm a country if not to harm the people inside it. Self defense is simply part of our desire to survive. Hamas is responsible for pushing the uprising while they cynically make political hay.
69
Do you mean, why does any parent allow a child to join the military?
That's a very good question.
10
If you shoot children and disarmed women, YOU are responsible. PERIOD. Might start by not stealing land if you do not ever want to find yourself in such a predicament.
21
Please educate yourself with the facts. Gaza is not occupied. It was returned as a whole to the Palestinians. Since that moment, the only thing that they are doing is gathering weapons and finding ways to attack their neighbors. If they only stop doing that and concentrate in doing for themselves they can find that Israel can help them and want to help them a lot.
7
Bringing a baby to an attempted mass border breach? That's child abuse!
60
What I don't get is why the US has any say in this war. If you're not living there, keep your opinions to yourself. And ... WHY did the US have to just create one more reason for the Israelis to kill Palestinians? However you spell this, it's still murder. Thanks Trump, war monger.
29
I didn’t vote for trump. He’s a clown. In fact he is responsible for my short-lived affiliation with the GOP. That said, why is it we Americans are so willing to stand against him on any issue that we would discard ANYTHING else, including human life? Trump didn’t create this conflict. Not sure how old you are but please stop buying into everything under the sun being trump’s fault. The world and all it’s problems have been around a heck of a lot longer than trump or you, for that matter.
1
Assad has killed what, half a million people? Where's the outrage from the Muslim world? From Europe? The silent hypocrisy is deafening.
60
Actually, most of the Muslim world does not care about Gaza either.
2
Palestinians are not going away in spite of Israeli desires to the contrary. Palestinian rights must be honored and restored, which means they must be able to return to the ancestral homeland from which they were violently dispossessed by Zionists at Israel's founding. Israelis will never be able to reconcile with their neighbors until they are treated as equals. Of course, that can never happen when you believe you are the "chosen people."
The West Bank and Gaza are the largest prisons on earth, so it's no wonder they flare up with rage and fight against all odds. Israel must answer for its crimes against humanity. We can start with Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions. Eventually, the State of Israel must be dissolved and all of its citizens (Jewish, Christian, Muslim, etc.) must be given equal rights. Apartheid was abolished in South Africa through external pressure, and we must do it again in Israel-Palestine.
32
Your dream would be a nightmare for the Middle East. Israel is a shining light of a dark world of dictatorial regimes, lacking human rights and democracy.
Women don't count, gays are persecuted, rape victims are demonized.
However much Israel may be imperfect, it is the only democratic country in the region, with equal rights for all sexes, religions and minorities.
While you are at, you are also making up history. Palestine has been Jewish for 3,000 years. Jesus was born a Jew in the West Bank ! There never existed an Arab Palestinian entity in Palestine and in fact most Arab Palestine were nomads originating from Egypt and the Arab Peninsula.
Before making any claims on Israel, maybe you should start cleaning up the violence in Syria, Iraq and Gaza, and work on democracy in the whole region.
7
Why? Simply why. Why must they be able to return to their ancestral homeland? Maybe they just lose. Maybe history moves on and their claims, legitimate or not are ignored. Then what? Maybe they could all get on with their lives, find productive work and raise families. What they've been doing for the last 75 years is just plain stupid. Its not working.
6
What were the Gazans thinking? That if they gave the Israelis some grief at a fence which separates them that Israel's Jews were going to throw up their hands and leave?
The Gazans are lucky that the Israelis showed some restraint and used only rifles and not machine guns, or something more lethal.
32
Under international law you cannot shoot in some other country across border especially unarmed civilians that i barbaric in my opinion. Apparently they will investigate all those 114 deaths and thousands injured but I doubt Israel will allow transparent investigation to take place or any at all as they are used to breaking international law and not getting punished for it; hey they control Trump now and thus USA.
4
"Hamas dialed back the protests on Tuesday" - In reality, Hamas gave the instruction Monday at 6 PM for everyone to disengage from the fence area and within an hour there were no more altercations. Effectively, Hamas controls the levers of the protesters and could have avoided the deaths of Palestinians yesterday. However, it is in Hamas' best interest to have this gruesome theater to help it with its political isolation. Sacrificing its own people clearly knowing the outcome and not doing anything to prevent it just for the PR. Heartless.
71
Would you call the shooting of unarmed children also heartless? Do you believe those israeli soldiers were grieving as they mowed down unarmed women and children? Or have you seen the many videos of them laughing as they carry out their murders? Do you think winning a war is good reason to keep all territories seized while it was fought?
Time to put down the fiddle and the fake outrage, not a single israeli died, and dozens of unarmed civilians did, plus thousands more are wounded. Your concern is of a particularly hypocritical type.
13
The people voted for Hamas.
5
I would call the using of children as human shields heartless. I would call a parent bringing a child as a shield to a protest in which people have been already been wounded as idiotic, and certainly a coward.
6
"As a relative quiet descended at the border fence, there was uncertainty about whether the protests would grow or fade."
What an excellent lead-in to this story, one that is bound to be read by hundreds, if not thousands, of Gazans looking for encouragement to continue their rioting.
7
Right, because one sentence in the New York Time is really what motivates thousands of dispossesed, hungry, grieving palestinians civilians with no future to throw themselves at the gates to be mowed down. Ridiculous.
13
Right, because these people read The New York Times. If they were educated enough to do so, they wouldn't be rioting in the first place.
3
Israel killing civilians is wrong. 59 dead; 2700 wounded. These are civilians; not soldiers. These people did not have weapons capable of killing the Israeli soldiers that killed them. One of the dead was a baby. Trump defended the killings; saying Israel had a right to defend itself. The killing was WRONG Ray Sipe voter America should stop all support of Israel
50
Death is wrong but your facts are incorrect. 24 of those who died were militants of Hamas. As to the baby, who brings a baby to a demonstration? Hamas had every opportunity to care for its people but chose not to. When it ordered disengagement at 6 PM on Monday, it happened within an hour. Their choice of death for PR is a pattern with no gain in sight. Perhaps a different tactic is in order.
31
Ray, some had weapons. You present your thoughts as absolute facts. Israel has a right to defend itself.
What do you think would happen if Gazan Hamas members get to Israeli soil, towns, schools? Any thoughts?
11
(1) Israel is the U.S.'s staunch ally. The Palestinians -- many of them -- danced and partied at 9/11 -- and this is not Trump talk, it's fact, you can see the photos and videos if you are so inclined and not intellectually lazy -- until Palestinian Authority big-wigs intervened and shut down the celebration.
(2) What was the eight-month-old doing in what is substantively a war zone at the border fence where no one lives, from which war zone Israel had warned the HAMAS-fueled violent protestors for weeks if not months, in Arabic, to stay away?
(3) Most importantly, you are factually badly in error: (A) The people killed were terrorists mixed in with civilians, the terrorist entities being HAMAS and Islamic Jihad and possibly others. (B) The protest was unambiguously violent, and the protestors unambiguously used lethal means, including rifles, airborne conveyances containing incendiary and explosive materials, slingshots hurling rocks and other projectiles, and, to try to blind the Israeli defenses so as to penetrate Israel's border, huge tire fires pouring off thick black, choking, rancid smoke, and mirrors arrayed to reflect the blinding sun into Israeli soldiers' eyes. HAMAS explicitly stated that it sought to make an incursion to kill or kidnap Israelis, and that it hoped to cut their hearts out. Israel, like any nation would have, defended its borders from attack from an entity sworn to its destruction.
16
Imagine for a moment that the situation were exactly reversed, and it was the Palestinians who had walled Jews into what Noam Chomsky calls "the world's largest open-air prison", with Palestinian snipers mowing down rock-throwing protesters.
Imagine what the headlines would look like.
42
Scorpio --- Jews were walled in an under attach from all sides in Israel. They seem to have created wonderful schools, arts, human rights, women empowerment, the only gay rights in the middle east, brilliant technology, industry, jobs, fair wages. What has Hamas created in Gaza with $9Billion of foreign aid? Tunnels and missiles and hate. So sad. Let's not give Hamas a pass, they too deserve blame for their choices and hatred.
13
There likely wouldn't *be* any headlines.
How do I know this? Go look up newspaper archives, and see how many headlines there were about Jews being walled into open-air prisons, starved, and then shipped in cattle-cars to death camps.
Been there, done that.
10
Jews have lived in ghettos for centuries. I am not sure what your thought experiment is about. If it were the other way around today, it would be another Holocaust. If they had the opportunity, they would include Noam Chomsky with the rest of them.
Palestinians had and have plenty opportunity for state building. They can redirect their charity funds to infrastructure and education. Hamas can stop their genocidal incitement. If they so wished, collaborative projects could develop with Israel, etc.
But, none of that will happen. It runs contrary to the Palestinian leadership business model of victimhood.
13
See what 2-3000 years of god stuff gets you.
Peace on Earth, Good will to all men.
STILL WAITING !
11
Don't blame God. Such behavior is mortal and human sin.
Netanyahu has found a partner in Trump killing the two-state solution. Keeping Palestinians in open air prisons with no travel, no jobs - no hope, is the future proposed. In Gaza 97% of the drinking water contaminated by sewage. Gazans can’t even visit the West Bank. Letting time kill them off. I call it genocide.
Netanyahu fiddles and Trump diddles.
Israelis once the oppressed are now the oppressors.
39
If Palestinians really wanted the two states solution, why would they keep on their chart the semtence: Death to Israel ?
10
Excuse me? What development projects are they engaged with in Gaza? Mostly digging tunnels underneath the border to be able to attack Israel. Why are they so obsessed with attacking Israel instead of building their cities and living in peace? They cannot expect to have any responsibility to their own lives. Stop blaming the others and start making a living (is it not the dominant thinking in a democratic society?)
7
Ivanka and Jared's circus shut down? Say it ain't so!
5
Although I disagree with the violent goals and methods used by the Hamas loyalists and think it was grossly negligent of parents to bring young children to a protest/riot where there was known violence and threats thereof, as well as toxic smoke and gasses due not just to tear gas, but also multiple burning tires, gasoline, grenades, etc., I still feel for the mom who lost her 8 month old infant. I hope she knows that her sisters in the other/all sides know that kind of pain and, despite the conflict and even despite her possible hatred of us, we offer prayers of and for healing. Losing an infant is devastating, regardless of one’s nationality, ethnicity, religion or politics.
6
In one week, the perfunctory international “outrage” will have dissipated and resulted in no concrete actions. More importantly, the world will have been (inexplicably) transfixed on a royal wedding, a famous person will have died (as happens every week), the U.S./North Korean summit will have been cancelled/rescued, and 200 new kitten videos will have appeared on YouTube.
Yesterday’s Palestinian actions will be seven news cycles old, which means completely forgotten in today’s media-saturated world.
The world has largely lost interest in the Palestinian "cause" and moved on. The Palestinians will only be able to move forward once they realize that nobody actually cares about them like they once did.
Let's hope that this can happen and mark the beginning of a negotiated agreement to bring peace and prosperity to the people of Gaza.
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As of one minute ago I no longer cared.
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An excellent post, and true in every way--except in the hopeful sentence at the end. The media will continue not to care because, as always, they will have stories about porn stars and Donald Trump to report. And the consumers of "news" will continue not to care because royal weddings and cat videos are so much more interesting than 60 dead unarmed Palestinians protesting the expropriation of their homeland by a major military power.
3
Many of the protesters are unemployed young men in desperate straits. The audacity of well-heeled pseudo-diplomats like Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump are truly clueless about Gaza and this region. Sure, it doesn't help that Hamas fuels the frustration of the protesters, but the problems were there long before Hamas, but now that Trump is conducting his thoughtless foreign policy based on gross ignorance and depending on the bully politics of the Likud, you can guarantee that this is not going to end well.
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How does a nation of people who have been discriminated against treat those outside their ethnicity with such disrespect, such humiliation? How can the formerly persecuted turn into that which they claim to despise? Knowing one cannot become an Israeli citizen without first being Jewish says it all to me. They have become what they hated.
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TommyMac you are misinformed on so many accounts. The most basic - Israeli citizenship. There are millions of non-Jewish citizens of Israel - about 20 percent of Israel population are not Jewish, many of them are of Arab decent. Further, there are non-Jewish members of parliament, doctors, policemen, lawyers, teachers, army officers, businessmen, etc.
As any country in the world, Israel has her share of problems, but not the problems you accuse her of.
7
To those misinformed who think one must be Jewish to become an Israeli citizen, know that pretty much anyone (save those who would do Israel harm, obviously) can become a citizen of Israel; Jewish people may receive only expedited citizenship — as do descendants of other national/ethnic groups going back to their ancestral land (e.g., Irish-Americans whose grandparent emigrated have easily gotten Irish — and this European Union — citizenship, while I’d have a longer time of it, though I’m not angry at Irish people or Ireland because of it).
Many people, of all religions and from around the world, including the Arab world, have become Israeli citizens.
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Tommy, you are incorrect. There are almost 1 million Arab Israel citizens. These are the ones that have embraced Israel rather than plan its demise...
7
The United Nations is welcome to organize a peacekeeping force aimed at ensuring that Palestinians do not cross the border, but as usual, it seems that that the UN would rather offer up criticisms than do the hard work of keeping peace in Gaza. That is particularly true when the aim of these protests isn’t conditions in Gaza, for which Hamas is responsible, but as the Palestinians themselves stated, demanding the right to live within areas that the UN itself partitioned into an independent Jewish state.
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Good point about the UN "peacekeepers". But they would probably do what they did at the first sign of trouble in the Sinai Peninsula (1967); pack up and leave.
5
also the land stolen by Israel since 1967
7
Bruce, why not give back parts of Texas, Calirfornia, et al that the US “stole” from Mexico. When the Palestinians and Arabs attacked in 1967, Israel defended itself and won additional territory.
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Where do the numbers of the dead and wounded come from? Is there any verification, or could the numbers simply be made up? Just curious.
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RLS, great question. The PLO has a long history of making up numbers, fabricating stories, and spinning propoganda. Let's keep our eyes and minds open. Meanwhile, the PLO offers no human rights for gays, women or other religions in the west bank or Gaza, and certainly no freedom of speech to question their rule.
15
The numbers come from the Gaza Health Ministry, which is HAMAS controlled, that is, is terrorist-controlled, and so lies blatantly about numbers, circumstances and identities. A good number of those killed were HAMAS and Islamic Jihad terrorists. In the past the Ministry has lied about the identities and behaviors of those killed, and has lied about who was killed, for example, stating that terrorists were civilians and journalists.
That said, this is a long war, nothing less, and killing is always horrible. Perhaps Israel could have employed more restraint, but that would have engendered more risk to Iseraeli soldiers *and* civilians; the goal was to get into Israel to kill and kidnap Israelis.
8
One part of this current, horrific conflict is geopolitical: the occupier vs the dispossessed. But another part, beneath that, and that vastly compounds the problem, is a lethal cancer, a centuries-old, by-now-epigenetic, religious animosity that prevents old wounds from healing. We need the wisdom of Solomon to solve the problem. But in the present climate, even that suggestion is probably an affront to someone.
12
It is my belief that any state that is founded on religion will become toxic over time. This is true for Judaism, Islam, Christianity, and any other. Another example is the Buddhist-Rohingya conflict in Maynmar.
I am not saying religion alone is toxic, but it leads to self rightiousness, and when that self rightousness is coupled with political and military power, it will always lead to oppression. It will never lead to freedom. For the those possessed of the state religion, nor those who are not of the state religion.
8
"Hamas had failed in its goal of infiltrating Israel and harming or kidnapping an Israeli, the official said, but might be willing to settle for having revived international interest in the Palestinian cause."
The closing sentence to the piece, quoted above, made a point all too obvious to any but those who look at pictures without reading books on regional history. Obviously the events yesterday were designed to provide a "victory" for Hamas by taking a hostage or alternatively creating opportunities for photos of Palestinians suffering. Unfortunately, a refusal to study history is as rife on the Left as on the Right. For the sake of horrific photos, Hamas beseeches Palestinians to do what Israeli forces repeatedly warn will lead to harm, all in the name of Islamic control of Israel, their declared goal. If you don't believe this, read the Hamas charter. Or look at the way they govern--or fail to govern.
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Hopefully it's not the calm before the storm.
If there's another mass "protest" and concerted effort to rush the fence, or if rockets start launching from Gaza, it's going to be tragic and a terrible tragedy.
7
Back when the demonstrations happened in Charlotteville, I took to social media to declare that, while I have not practiced Judaism for most of my life, nor often identified as an ethnic Jew, I did on that day, as a statement of moral solidarity.
With today's reports from Gaza, Jerusalem and elsewhere I find I must speak out again, this time in soluidarity witht he prisoners of Gaza and the West Bank.
The Netanyahu regime demands that Palestinians and the world acknowledge Israel as The Jewish State, as though the speak for all Jews. They do not. This is not the state I sold bonds for "to plant trees in the desert," where a humanitarian Zionism seemd less like an oxymoron than it does today.
So, again, I am cloaking myself in my Jewish heritage, to stand in rebuke of the actions taken in our name.
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Both sides are prisoners of their own history.
Everyone loves Peace . . . and some are ready to kill to get it.
Manny, you should study the real facts and the history in details. Unfortunately, without doing so you cannot really understand what is going on. The event was designed to influence good people like you to sympathize with Hamas (not with the Palestinian they control) by sacrificing there own people in order to get publicity. A peaceful protest with signs and speeches would not have caused any harm to anyone.
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Manny, learn your history. Israel was established as the Jewish State. That was long before Netanyahu came on the scene.
10
Palestinians, get this through your heads, Palestinians are never going to get a state on the West Bank. That ship has sailed. There are too many Jews now in Israel to make a mini-state for Jews viable.
The best that Palestinians can hope for is full Israeli citizenship, some degree of autonomy similar to what French Canadians have in Quebec, plus payment of Just Compensation for those who lost land or property due to Israel's creation by the UN, the representative of the World Community, as under the legal doctrine of Eminant Domain. Let us also recall that Israel was created in the wake of what the Germans did.
As far a Gaza goes, the UN should recognize Gaza as an independent state whether Gaza asks for it or it. Right now Gaza is not Israel, it's not Egypt. It's a big nothing.
There's your Palestinian state,,, Gaza.
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Roman Cesar Hadrian created Palistine around 134 BC from what was Roman Judea. It was Palestine until the 1948 War that was created by the vacuum in the region due to the Fall of the Ottoman Empire in WW I.
2
None of the Palestinians had anything to do with Hitler's Germany...why should they care? And too many Jews in Israel? One of the major problems with a one-state-solution is the fear to lose the numbers game. Palestinian families tend to have many more children. As others have said before there will be either a Jewish State or Israel will survive as a democracy. Can you imagine for one second that we would dictate the ethnicity of our citizens here? This is all too sad and shortsighted. Eventually Israel will have to accommodate these people - the Gaza open air prison won't hold them all.
1
If almost every country in the world, including the dysfunctional ones like Iran and North Korea, join an organization it is fair to describe it as a "representative of the world community".
1