Marino’s Stone column was delightful as usual. In an age of “rights” it is virtually impossible for us to imagine that we don’t have a “right” to our good fortunes. But to the Greeks of Aristotle’s time the matter was not so simple. They feared not only the evil eye—the spite of malignant deities and other mortals—but the envy of the immortal gods (pthonos theon) source of all justice. How is this possible? I suggest that, as with all emotions, envy comes in two “colors or valences” (in the author’s terrific words) which Aristotle disambiguates by calling on the resources of ordinary language, which already contains two words for the same emotion: jealousy/envy (zelos/pthonos). This highlights the role for Aristotle of emotion in the discrimination of all justice and “rights.” Self-examination of emotions allows us to perceive what is just by distinguishing jealousy (a “noble”—and just—emotion that honors its source) from envy (an unjust, “ignoble” emotion that wishes harm on those who evoke it).
2
Marino’s Stone column was delightful as usual. In an age of “rights” it is virtually impossible for us to imagine that we don’t have a “right” to our good fortunes. But to the Greeks of Aristotle’s time the matter was not so simple. They feared not only the evil eye—the spite of malignant deities and other mortals—but the envy of the immortal gods (pthonos theon) source of all justice. How is this possible? I suggest that, as with all emotions, envy comes in two “colors or valences” (in the author’s terrific words) which Aristotle disambiguates by calling on the resources of ordinary language, which already contains two words for the same emotion: jealousy/envy (zelos/pthonos). This highlights the role for Aristotle of emotion in the discrimination of all justice and “rights.” Self-examination of emotions allows us to perceive what is just by distinguishing jealousy (a “noble”—and just—emotion that honors its source) from envy (an unjust, “ignoble” emotion that wishes harm on those who evoke it). By hating the bearer of good fortune the envious man destroys the bounty of the gods and, in the process, himself.
15
As a retired psychotherapist with decades of experience, I am wondering if shame isn't the underbelly of envy.
43
Envy, what a relevant subject in today’s class warfare politics, where the evil “1 percenters” are so demonized and income inequality is equivalent to pestilence.
It isn’t a moral, high-minded sense of just society that drives much of the 99%, or even dissatisfaction with their own absolute standing in the world, it’s the painful, vexing belief that someone, somewhere has a better material life than they do.
A very natural human feeling, a very lousy basis for a political movement.
14
Nice piece but what do you mean you can't control what you think, only how you deal with it? Frankly that's more or less what I do too but I'd think the goal is to reform the thinking
5
It has been said that if you think someone has a charmed life, you don't know them well enough.
49
My people say "the owner of the house knows where the roof is leaking"!
27
I will admit to an enormous envy of people who seem to be in loving, intimate relationships. I suppose it's because it's a major disappointment in my current life. Romantic movies, perfume ads, public displays of affection...they all make me feel bad. The important thing to recognize, and I do, is that this doesn't generate hatred for anyone else, it simply generates hatred for myself.
28
So many great envy quotes. Let’s not forget Emerson: “Envy is ignorance.” And by that he meant ignorance of one’s own genius and actual potential.
15
Philosophical musing about what X or Y really are often suffers from the failure to look up "X' or 'Y' in a dictionary--one listing senses in the order of their evolution, like new species.
'X' or 'Y' needn't mean one thing. Lexicographers often dis-cover the forces pushing the evolution, much like Darwin's natural or sexual selection.
Aristotle: "“ the pain caused by the good fortune of others.” ... these pangs often give way to ...malice."
Kierkegaard: “Envy is secret admiration”
"Collegiate"--
"...from Anglo-French, from Latin invidia, from invidus envious, from invidere to look askance at, envy, from in- + videre to see — more at WIT
Date:13th century
1 : painful or resentful awareness of an advantage enjoyed by another joined with a desire to possess the same advantage
2 obsolete : MALICE
3 : an object of envious notice or feeling <his new car made him the envy of his friends>"
Aristotle (and Augustine) influenced the Church's idea of envy as one of the "Seven Deadly Sins". Sins were forms of excess--in keeping with Aristotle's idea that vices are either excesses or deficiencies (too much or too little); virtues are moderations--perfections--just the right amount, for time place and situation. See Veblen's "invidious comparison."
Evolution purged 'envy' of perverse malice--thus "green with envy" ( a back formation). It also purged 'lust'. "Lust for power" an excess, a vice; "lust for life" is a virtue. Lust can also be normal sexual appetite--like hunger.
1
Envious one becomes only when lacking in self-confidence and mostly about the known people in proximity. The distant the object less is the burden of envy felt.
13
The author correctly identifies Nietzsche as a font of wisdom on envy but I think he may mistake Nietzsche's counsel - "Homer's Contest" is an essay of Nietzsche's on the agon of Greek culture which puts forward two forms of envy.
The Greeks had two different spirits of envy: 1. one which pushed the Greeks to excel in each field by trying to outperform the others and another, 2. which drove them to destruction.
Nietzsche applauds the former, as it leads to the striving for excellence while the latter is far more common and sows the seeds of failure.
5
Those who despise Barack Obama and seek to undo his achievements might be motivated in part by envy, enhanced by resentment that he is African-American: He is obviously very intelligent, with degrees from prestigious institutions, hard working, has a model family, and no personal or political scandals. The anti-Obama-ists may find it much easier to embrace Donald Trump, with his scandals du jour.
I have observed that envy is a powerful motivator that can lead to destructive behavior. Consuming oneself with envy of others is a huge waste of effort. Recognizing that there will always be people who can do many things better than I, I try to focus on leading my own life to the best of my ability and to refrain from focusing on envy of those who have accomplished more or have more.
34
I dislike the word "envy" as it contains a seed of jealousy and malice.
Aristotle described envy not as benign desire for what someone else possesses but “as the pain caused by the good fortune of others.”
I guess that sums it up for me.
In my case i think it does not have to do with those who have accomplished more, but those who have accomplished less and have more. Such as a trust fund baby or someone who has inherited a fortune through no skill of their own, and can enjoy pleasures not available to me after a lifetime of perseverance and hard work.
I often wonder what I might have done with a $20 million head start.
At times like that, i turn inward and assume an "attitude of gratitude" that sees me through.
21
What if envy was really just another social construct and a product of the hierarchical paradigm?
Theodore Zeldin observed, 'No amount of status or reward will compensate for your inadequacy as a human being.'
I am not trying to be smart here but the concept of flawsome is appealing. Flawsome - to compassionately accept our flaws and those of others and to work together to become flawseome - a combination of being both flawed and awesome when working together.
The hierarchical paradigm emphasises power, status and position at the expense of purpose and relationship. In circle cultures (or parabolic) envy is less of an issue.
Journey with courage and kindness,
Peter Rennie leadershipaustralia
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This assumes hierarchies are social constructs and a not default setting of humans that comes from evolution. We’re programmed to feel envy, because envy drives someone to go after what they don’t have, which increases their chances of reproducing and doing so at scale.
Animals from wolves to monkeys to lobsters have hierarchies. We’re not special because we define it by org charts and bank accounts.
6
Hi Alex,
Not everyone believes hierarchies are a given. And not all animals are hierarchical.
The evolutionary branch that led to bonobos, chimpanzees and us (humans) shows diversity. Whilst chimps are hierarchical bonobos are not.
There is plenty of evidence that leads some anthropologists to believe early man was circle man. Hierarchies are a late arrival – somewhere between 10.000 and 6000 years ago. Evidence? cave paintings, burial sites, ancient myths. Recommend 'The Fall' by Steve Taylor (2005). Also Google ‘Robert Sapolsky garbage dump troop’ or search for the nytimes article ‘no time for bullies: baboon retool their culture’ and you may want to re-think your assumptions about hierarchies.
As for evolutionary advantage of envy . . . Edward O Wilson believes the evidence is there for multi level evolution. This explains why there is Good Samaritan behavior is still around. If humans had been hierarchical from the beginning there wouldn’t be much GSB left.
People are different in circles. The Quakers think differently about relationships. There’s great equity. Women and men have led the groups for hundreds of years. No envy in the way we understand it. (I’m not a Quaker by the way).
Journey with courage and kindness,
Peter Rennie leadershipaustralia
1
Good article, although it could have benefited from citing also René Girard, an author for whom envy had an essential place in human life. Girard argued that all human desires are borrowed from other people, since humans have little in terms of instincts, so they have to learn what to want. Imitating the desires of others creates an unending spiral of conflict, and the control of this process explains, according to Girard, the appearance and development of such widespread and key institutions such as the family, religion, and the sacred. In this view, envy is not just another "negative" emotion that we have to deal with, but a foundational one.
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Interesting article. However, the author assumes there is a moral duty to help others from themselves. Instead, there is no such duty. People are only liable to themselves for consequences of their actions. (Helping) is not the solution. People deserve to be left alone..
3
A philosopher once distinguished the dark emotions of jealousy and envy: jealousy is excessive preoccupation with something WE claim and fear losing ("John is jealous of Sue because she is beautiful and others want her"); envy is excessive focus on what ANOTHER owns ("Jim's car is beautiful but I can't have it"). Both forms of self-torment are rooted in the reluctant recognition that the things/persons we are attached to, whether "ours" or another's, are things we irrationally imbue with quasi-divine power to make or break our lives, as if they are indispensable to our identity or happiness. We foolishly think losing them (jealousy) or not having them (envy) would devastate us.
The antidote, it seems, is hard moral work to combine a deep and genuine appreciation for the beauty and wonder arising from the "thing" at issue, with the realization that its presence or absence in my life is gratuitous (it might never have happened) and out of my control, like the color of my eyes. John can celebrate Sue's beauty and know his life is richer if he leaves it to her to be her own person. I can admire Jim's car, knowing my life will be fine without it and I can be happy for Jim having it and the pleasure it gives him. This approach is a moral discipline of building gratitude for the wonder of things and persons gracing our lives. It's not easy, but leading with gratitude enlarges us morally in how we see and relate to ourselves and the persons/things around us. Difficult, but doable.
9
I am not envious of people who are so obsessed by hatred, that they use any discussion of any topic as an opportunity to spew venom at our legally elected president.
By the way, I voted for Obama 2X, and found this tendency just as unenviable in right wing wackos.
4
I admire your stance against venom spewing but you oversimplify when you suggest that those of us disgusted by Trump are driven by hate. In fact, a good deal of our opposition is meant to defend against the hatred that brought him to power.
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As noted by Jay Near from Oakland in his response to this comment, disgust can be grounded in something wholesome. Hatred feels like it must always be evil, but it can at times reflect appropriate moral outrage and a constructive effort to advance the common good when grounded in respect and concern for people improperly attacked,. The quarterback Kapernich made this point recently in saying his rage against the abuse of black males on the street, etc. was grounded in his love for them. Like Jay, I have a hard time seeing love behind most of the fury shown by supporters of Mr. Trump. I would welcome learning from Average Joe how he sees his positive values promoting Mr. Trump's words and conduct.
11
I guess that Thou Shall Not Covet is no longer relevant.
7
I love this essay. I have shared it on my FB page, "I Wish I'd Written That."
6
Envy is secret admiration. I like that. When I read Gurdjieff one phrase that stuck with me was something like “envied for imitation.” If we’re about more than the will to power and winning competitions then it seems illogical to respond to admiring another by seeking to tear them down rather than seeking to build ourselves up.
That’s a useful paragraph where you say we can’t choose what we feel but we have sway over how we understand our feelings, and self-understanding can modify and sculpt those feelings. Can we add that with envy, if we see that responding to admiration of another by attempting to cultivate the admired quality in ourselves generally makes much more sense than trying to tear the other person down, and we make inner efforts accordingly, we may then find over time that the desire to build ourselves up begins to supplant the desire to tear another down when we admire others?
Of course when I admire someone’s patience or decisiveness I can try to be patient or decisive as appropriate. But do I admire Warren Buffet because he’s rich, or because he is highly competent, has great judgment in business affairs, seems to be fair-minded but not greedy; and knows he’s wealthy because we’ve organized society in a way that richly rewards his skill set?
On the other side of all this, I got the idea reading Greek mythology in middle school that the ancients described spites as if they had a life of sorts of their own. That also made a big impression on me. Knock wood.
5
People who object to the severe wealth inequality we are living today are often accused of being "jealous" of Robber Baron success.
I do not envy mafia figures and others who have stolen OUR wealth through tax evasion and/or OUR hard-earned-taxpayer-funded government contracts, grants and other benefits that have made them preposterously wealthy.
I detest their lack of social conscience and their insatiable greed.
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I am talking about the mafia Mr. Campos. Are you?
Your mention of some of the world's greatest philosophers is comforting; yet I am wondering why the biblical greats are not listed among them. Some of the most direct words come from John when he says, "He must increase, I must decrease." Lessons in humility are some of the hardest lessons to learn.
3
I think envy is primarily an emotion more fully exercised in young people, diminishing with age. Or at least that's the way it's supposed to work.
Young people should have some envy of what others have or have accomplished and set a course to accomplish those kinds of things, if that's what they want. If along the way it is found that maybe that's not what they want or they've found something else that appeals to them more, that's OK too.
When people age and fail to place their past envies in the past and, rather hold on to them or find new envies, they have a developmental problem.
People ought to realize that if they have lived through adolescence reasonably intact, they are pretty well off. Little envies may creep in just like other childish impulses but, of all the childish impulses one may have, envy is among the least of these to be indulged in. In an adult it's not becoming to anyone, including yourself.
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Do not underestimate the benefits of self awareness. We humans are self aware beings and being mindful and choosing our choices consciously rather than mechanically like an automaton distinguishes us from machines robots. Other animals and sentient beings too are self aware but they maybe more prone to impulse, fright or flight and less to deliberate sophisticated analysis of multiple outcomes based on multiple corresponding decisions. Just being human is a cause for celebration although we take it for granted and get bored thinking ok so I am human, what’s next.
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"Comparison is the thief of happiness" The first time I heard this was an epiphany for me. Rather than self-awareness, self acceptance is what we need. If we cannot accept who we are and be content with ourselves, we cannot be truly happy. Glass half full or half empty, its our own choice.
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"Self satisfied" names a vice--either the false belief that there's no room for improvement (conceit) or deficient standards, confusing reality with ideality.
Proust put it better. We get on best with those who realize our imperfections, but tolerate and even enjoy us as we struggle to be better people--including ourselves.
3
If I am envying someone, it is probably because they seem to have found more inner peace and serenity than I have thus far. On the other hand, an honest self-assessment shows that I'm doing okay, and life is far better emotionally if not physically then it was when I was much younger. I still want to write a hit song that everybody loves and sings, and I possibly have a shard or two of envy for younger people who have pulled that off. It could still happen - stranger things have - and I haven't quit trying; but I'm not holding my breath, and in the meanwhile I am deeply appreciative of who I am, where I am, and still having a promising future no matter what my age, at least until the final goal post comes into view. As Ram Dass said, "be here now."
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Humility...a word and a virtue that's sorely lacking in 2018.
It's not a negative term, it's a quality that accepts the truth of what I am in myself. But of course in 2018, Truth is hard to come by, too.
Envy and jealousy are nasty things. They're usually pretty obvious
as they show in a person 's face. It's not a good look.
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I don't see an "upside of envy" and I am happy that I've read enough mislabeled op-ed pieces to know that one should not judge a book by its cover. I do wonder if the negative concept of envy what invented just to blame "have nots" for their recognition of any injustices involved in people becoming "haves." There is recognition of inequity and unfairness and there is envy. In any event, this piece is one for saving and re-reading.
7
Envy? Baffling to spend so much time time thinking about what others are doing. Focus upon yourself!
8
“Envy is secret admiration,” I will remember that.
4
"As honest as a punch?"
“Mediocrity attacks excellence.”
5
Your comment is so interesting that I am writing down the quote from Horace: Sicilian tyrants never found a worse torture....than ENVY. Thank you.
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This is yet another excellent addition to an excellent series, and Mr. Marino is to be commended. Particularly, this sentence: "One of the reasons envy does not take a holiday is that we never give a rest to the impulse to compare ourselves to one another." The effort, which I make constantly, to capture my mind's urges to compare myself to others, to update an internal ledger of how my actions are being judged, and to then stop this internal malevolence is exhausting and seems futile. This piece gives me some insight into why, and I'm thankful for a deeper understanding as well as the company of all the greats of the past who shared this affliction. I feel that at least 90% of human behavior can be boiled down to "Look at Me!", and this piece gives a deeper view of it.
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So often, behind envy, frustration, judgment and anger, to name just a few, reside our dreams and desires. What if we were to acknowledge to ourselves, and without shame, what we're feeling? We could then dig below the tip of the (envy, frustration, judgment, anger) iceberg and determine what we really want for ourselves. And then dig some more by asking "What else would I like? And why would I like that?" Asking ourselves these questions four or five times may lead to some soulful revelations. When we can no longer cycle with fury or run even half-marathons, we may come to see that by flipping the coin from envy to desire, we discover meaningful options to pursue. With such insights, of course, come the personal responsibility to realize our dreams and live with greater fulfillment. What an envious position to be in!
5
What a fine piece this is. I’m reminded of the Iron Age prohibition against coveting your neighbor’s house, wife, and ox. It’s the only commandment to guard our thoughts instead of acts. The alchemist that can change envy into admiration has surely evolved to a higher state of being than I have and it makes me angry.
10
The emotion of "envy" - here's where language always fails me. Envy has a negative connotation. But what if your "envy" is not accompanied by wishing that those you envy did not have what you long for? What if there is no accompanying jealousy, no wish that others have less, be deprived of what you don't have? What do we call that? Example: does the person with no grandchildren wish her friends weren't rejoicing in their? No. Does seeing that joy and knowing it is not going to be in your life cause pain? Yes. Must that be called "envy"? It is a mean-spirited word. It always needs modifying if it's accompanied by good will. I want a word, one word, not a chain of words, for that emotion.
12
For the situation you describe, grief or wistfulness might do. I agree that not everyone feels envy. Perhaps it is envious people who need to attribute that feeling to others.
5
You make an important distinction, Emily. I think that, in many cases, jealousy shapes our attitude toward people we don't know. In the example cited by Professor Marino, his graduate students probably didn't hope their own friends failed to gain admission to a graduate program, only some anonymous strangers.
I have often felt envious of friends, but only in the sense that I wished I had shared some honor or the opportunity to match their ability to buy some highly desirable product. I did not want to deprive them of what gave them pleasure or a sense of accomplishment.
4
A single word is the reduction of human complexity to a comfort level. Don't think too much is the motto of our times.
2
Great comments for this interesting article.
I struggle at times with jealousy but what often helps is what I learned as a child.
You cannot be jealous for what is not your own.
When I think of that when I'm ruminating over some material or aspirational thing I do not have and wanting to throw my woes at others who I think are better off than me, I remind myself that those things do not belong to me so why would I waste my time on being envious.
It helps ease the pain and sting and I can honestly say that I have never felt malice towards others for what they have.
But what I learned from this article is that I have at times bought things in the hopes that others would be envious under the guise of wanting others to admire me for my stuff. That's a good lesson and something I'm working on.
2
When Mr. Marino refers to his enyy of the physically active, he hints at an underlying factor regarding envy that he doesn't make explicit. Our envy is particularly strong in areas where our personal status has declined or deteriorated. Then, we know well just what we don't have. If you've gone from financially comfortable to not so comfortable, from healthy to ailing, or from romantically involved to uninvolved, those who have what you have lost make for particularly bad company. Your self-awareness of the envy is greater, your tolerance for it is less. This sort of envy is very situational and makes my agenda very different from yours.
15
I've always wanted to be the person I envied the most. The friend who is nonjudgmental, self-confident, articulate, strong, independent. The sister who is beautiful, ambitious, kind, AND super nice. They create an atmosphere of safety and trust, gaining the admiration and loyalty of those lucky enough to be a part of their life.
8
The Lange Crusius study cites 2 types of envy: the first type which makes the envious want to level the field by harming and thus bringing the envied down to his/her level, and the second type which evolves into a positive effort to achieve the successes of the envied. But I think there is a third type, which neither produces harm nor motivation, but silently seethes.
18
This is important work that many of us neglect. I do, however, take issue with your idea that we can’t choose our emotions. There is much research to disprove this. Dr. Tiffany Watt Smith is worth Googling on this topic.
3
So, the other side of the coin of envy?
Perhaps Pride? Showing Off?
My first envy was of Linda L's braids in first grade.
I always had messy hair and Mom was always nagging at me to "go comb your hair!"
But Linda had perfect French braids, freshly created every single day before school.
My Mom could not touch my hair without pulling it. She was not dextrous or gentle.
I knew very well that Linda didn't create those braids all by herself
and so I knew that someone loved her very much and gently braided her hair, sending her off to school well groomed. The fact that her shoes were shined every day was the icing on the cake!!!
I think envy is most potent when it's clear that the envied person enjoys love and attention we, ourselves, lack.
It's the hole in our own life that is so painful.
96
I cried the day I brought my children to a pediatric dentist. I cried for the little girl whose mother never did this for her.
11
If envy provides a glimpse into the soul why is it universally considered a lower emotion; unworthy and cause for embarrassment? How odd, to try and make a virtue out of one's weakness. Honesty is also important. No sane young person envies sixty plus year olds, no matter how ripped.
4
I have found over time that those whose lives I envied, were not as they seemed. The high school pal of mine who was admitted to a prestigious law school, only to succumb to suicide a year later. The seemingly loving family living in a “dream house”, whose father became so mentally ill, he had to move away from the family and did not even miss his children.
These and other similar instances have led me to be less likely to fall into the trap of envy.
28
That Donald Trump has an obsessional envy of Barack Obama or anyone else who inspires admiration and respect and thus draws the limelight away from himself and invites invidious comparisons, is no secret. But envy is also the slippery slope to “schadenfreude” and that is something that Trump possesses in spades. He seems to be in a permanent state of waiting for something bad to happen in this country (or the rest of the world) so he can “tweet-gloat” and say “I told you so” and offer himself as the solution.
We are currently in the “unenviable” position of being governed by a man who dotes on schadenfreude and has no perceivable interest in the welfare of these United States.
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Yes, there is great profit in painfully opening to envy. I can't say what, for you, but softening and opening toward it, not acting on it. On the other side is a smaller me, yes, but a world transformed. The way is not to crush all desire, but to pay close attention.
4
I've envied others (a motivator), and others have envied me (I'm motivating them). Like spice, it's tasty in moderation, but awful in excess.
8
If we humans live long enough, and constantly learn during our life spans, we know that envy and jealousy hold no dominion over our emotions and daily reality. We understand that the good fortune of others is just the eternal wheel of joy and sorrow turning for them and for us in our brief days. In our chaotic and messy and far from tranquil American lives today -- we are promised by hucksters on social media of every kind that we will make our neighbors jealous of our things (which are disposable - like cars and brands of everything from water to wristwatches). We understand the difference between the happy infatuation of admiration and the sick passion of envy and jealousy. Self-awareness - and understanding our feelings - is the key to the kingdom of tranquility as long as we shuffle around this mortal coil. Entropy, disease and death await us, and devour us all sooner or later. Gratitude -- and finding joy daily in the smallest of things on earth -- is healthy and as warm as the sun on old bones and flesh.
There is no upside of envy. One of the countless gifts of life is learning to modify our feelings from day to day. Even from hour to hour. Existentialism - back in the 1930s and 40s of Sartre and Camus -- defines us as optimistic and liberates us from the mores of our skewed times. Meanwhile we see our American leader is a crass man of no learning, no appreciation of the humanity of life itself. He is the bell tolling for all of us in this early 21st Century.
25
The place of envy in my life?
Up to about age 20 I was envious of people having the usual, visible, material things I didn't have. Jealousy never really played a part in my life insofar as I define jealousy as being fearful of someone taking away something I have; I never had and still do not have much to be jealous of losing although I have had nightmares of having things stolen from me, such as a guitar or automobile.
Probably the thing I was most envious of when young and to present day is beauty in other people; I've always been insecure about my teeth especially and moles on my face so I rarely smile. Apart from that I don't recollect feelings of strong envy, and certainly feelings of envy diminished dramatically when I had a mystical experience under the influence of LSD about age 20.
After having had the mystical experience I started wondering powerfully about life, the meaning of it all. Envy diminished dramatically because for all the advantages other people had over me not one person seemed to have much of an answer to the meaning of life. I grew to admire great people such as scientists and artists but envy about their work never seemed particularly powerful. I would envy though a person having deep understanding, deep having come to terms with life.
In a sense I guess I envy the universe itself, all that power and hidden meaning behind things. I'd like to know the answer. My trivial envy is still envy of beauty in other people, envy of the good looking.
5
Years ago, Diana Rigg starred in a PBS Mystery series called "Mother Love," based on a novel by Domini Taylor. The press releases referred to it as a show about hatred and obsession, but I thought it was about jealousy and/or envy. (I confess I don't understand the difference.) When I watched her brilliant performance in this show, I burned with resentment right along with her, even while I realized how pathological she was. That's when I realized how susceptible I myself was to this very dangerous and self-destructive emotion.
Ever since then I have worked to be cognizant of envy and its partner, resentment, when I feel them creeping up on me.
9
we are envious not only of others but of what
they have accomplished in terms of what we
have not .in a strange sort of way,we end up enviing our own failures,our own "might have beens."the best way to overcome this feeling
is to take a serious moral inventory of our
successes and failures and realize that in
most cases,we did our best with the ability
we had,factoring in such variables as luck
and our emotional and mental state at any
given time on our life's journey.most of us
will come to peace with ourselves and be
able to live with the realization that we did
reasonably well.
25
I always liked the quote: "If we are threw our problems in a pile and saw everyone else's, we'd grab our own back."
Except for children, we all where a mask in life. To know anoth persons soul is a rare treat.
10
The red line on a sixty or seventy year old is not that high. Really, what’s there to envy?
4
There's a Downside to Envy ??? Who knew ???
4
Can't help but wonder how many of your readers might envy your achieving official Stone status...and how kind of you to provide help in understanding such a reaction.
2
There is none. It eats you alive. Try curiosity instead.
2
"No one promised us a rose garden' is a common saying to signify that, to deserve one, we must work for it...plus the ingredient we tend to forget or take for granted, the luck of the draw. And life has so many dirt tracks that we may end up on the losing end...while our neighbor is up and happy with his luck. And the natural wish to want what the neighbor is or has comes to mind, Is this envy or just a healthy approach to wanting comfort in our life? Now, if you are remain unhappy until you see that neighbor fall into disgrace, envy is most definitely the culprit. Remember Emma Bombeck's "If life is a bowl of cherries, why am I in the pits"? Exactly.
3
Huh? What upside?
We are experiencing a President whose entire raison d'être is his envy of our previous President.
100
You're giving the current occupant way too much credit for good taste and good character. In order to envy, you have to first value something. The only thing Obama had that Trump actually wishes to obtain may be re-election. And given the workload, maybe he doesn't even want that!
7
As often as have walked the Met – enough to find most ways in and out sans map – reflect briefly on going un-named, two places…
1. One of the building’s wings
2. The nights’s gala invite list
Within an hour - in and out of what’s clearly someone else’s house…
Exclusivity escapes me – envy baffles me…
Do they seek or feel oneness with the more significant North Wing mummies – or glance at the glass to see if bow-tie or necklace on straight or big enough, respectively…
Per author – do they peer at each others’ bow-ties and necklaces, to assure theirs is on straighter or bigger…
If not – do they envy…
One of those walks – caught Christo’s gates in the Park on a warm winter day…
Alternately, Eliasson’s waterfalls coldly jab at a time when too many NYC scaffolds were more significant than their buildings…
Glad all now occupied - more heated grates outside…
Most poignant NYC retrospective – re envy…
Spouse of hedge-funder raised a hand and dropped $10M on the High Line – on a whim in a moment, to show they could…
Decade later – that inside-out anti-museum has works of real estate hanging on its corridor walls that – in toto – easily appraise past $10B…
All around, envious…
Unlanded got no upside – not even a rent-buyout…
Outerboros have high lines out the roof – even trains…
But – did hedge-funder envy spouse, at making a lightning-fast deal whose ROI blew way past many of their own…
...
Actually third place - any artist's name-plaque…
Like I was never there…
1
Good Afternoon: Envy is the stupidest of the Seven Deadly Sins--it makes you feel miserable without compensation. At least gluttony feels good until the indigestion hits!
I coached myself to feel good when I learn of someone else's latest success. Yes, congratulate them for their achievements--then focus on your next opportunities. Focusing on your future successes will double your pleasure. You will feel good then and you feel good now.
8
Thank you, Mr. Marino!
Nice to read about something OTHER than Mr. Trump and his innumerable woes!
I'm a retired Latin teacher.
And the Romans had a lot to say about--ENVY.
My favorite is from Ovid. ENVY--is a real character. Called on by a goddess to perform some little service. What a picture this great poet gives us of--ENVY. Teeth blackened, irregular! Never looks you in the eye. And then. . . ..
Risus abest nisi quem visi movere dolores.
"She never smiles--except at the sight of someone's pain."
Do you KNOW anyone like that? But going on. . . .
. . .grieving 'cause she knows Minerva's mission is bound to succeed, the wretched creature SLOUCHES towards her chariot. And takes off.
Not neglecting any little mischief she can do by the way. Starting a war . . estranging devoted friends. .. getting a family quarrel going. . .you know the routine. . . .
. . .till she comes to Athens. Oh dear.! A happy, prosperous city. AT PEACE. This will never do!
Vixque tenet lacrimas quia nil lacrimabile cernit.
"She could barely keep back her tears--'cause there was nothing to CRY about. . .. "
Thus Ovid. Let Horace have the last word:
Invidia Siculi non invenere tyranni
Maius tormentum. . ..
"Sicilian tyrants never found a worse torture. . .
". . .than ENVY."
Thanks Mr. Marino. And hey!. ..
. . how about you take up JOGGING?
Like ME. Who am sixty eight.
But everyone thinks I'm twenty.
(NOT! Sorry.)
22
You gotta' be kidding. However you dress it up, envy is a recipe for spiritual and emotional rot.
4
Envy of others is a waste of emotional energy. Yet envy of what one could have been...now, that's something to chew on.
3
If you are able to self-reflect, envy of others can open the door to seeing what you could have been. Or what you could be now, given your current circumstances. In that sense, it's not a waste, it is the upside Mr. Marino is talking about.
I have found that envy sneaks up on me sometimes when I least expect it, and I find myself saying something that I regret as soon as it comes out of my mouth. I alienated a friend that way decades ago and he finally stopped speaking to me. The guy possessed everything I thought I wanted and didn't have: career, degrees, money, friends, and a relationship. A few years after he gave me the deserved heave-ho, he broke through as an internationally acclaimed author who has contributed to this newspaper many times.
5
unfortunately, envy is often the source of bullying...thus envy is not simply internally destructive.
12
My husband's son and family is presently residing in France; his wife is a professor at a major university and has received funding to conduct research for a book which will be published by UC. Their children are attending French schools where they are learning to speak French and enjoying skiing in the ALPs. When I compare their education and its perks with my early education which consisted of moving every year to a new school because my father could not keep a job.
I am envious.....
8
Some people think that I lack envy because I don't envy wealth. But I have plenty of envy for other things, like being a successful philosophy professor.
That does not make me wish ill of any successful philosophy professor, but I do feel those little twinges of discomfort.
3
It is not enough that I succeed, but that you fail.
4
For Nietzsche "envy" is the essence of resentful consciousness; something which Nietzsche despised as representing the herd mentality. Envy is at the opposite pole of genuine will-to-power. In Nietzsche´s view, envy represents the bad-faith consciousness of the weak. Mr. Marino´s reading of Nietzsche is woefully lacking. There is no upside to envy.
1
The problem is the cultivation of envy in order to try to manipulate.
Envy isn't so much a genuine want for lack, it's a perversion of a natural longing for affirmation & attention, perhaps based in some hardwired competition for parental care among siblings.
Even dogs can get jealous if you're petting one & not the other.
Why cultivate envy, or shallow status-insecurity in others? Power dynamics, these days pursued scientifically in order to sell products.
This is what the marketing machine is perniciously designed to do: Manufacture envy.
But the dynamic would defeat itself if the insecurity engendered were ever truly satisfied.
Which is why a society based purely in greed, self-interest & competition is fundamentally flawed.
Trumpian doctrine promotes addiction to pursuit of affirmation, status, ostentation, conspicuous consumption, & envy. It's a profoundly ugly worldview, but apparently enticing to many.
But what do I know? Nada, except that I suspect that the Trumpian approach of seeking dominance by engendering envy in, and at the expense & detriment of, others is not only utterly hollow & corrupt, it will lead to societal misery.
Hopefully someday people will once again celebrate humility & common cause.
But it seems Trump's entire 'Me Generation' of postwar yuppies & boomers will need to fade away completely for humility & humanity to return.
4
Oh yes, all you need is for the post war yuppies and boomers to pass away for there to be universal humility and humanity. Just like before we boomers arrived on the scene.
I certainly don't need to envy you for your intelligence.
2
I believe it was CS Lewis's demon Screwtape that claimed the sin of envy to be the only one of the seven that doesn't provide any pleasure. That still bugs me for some reason.
7
Beneath the envy is resentment at feeling forced to compete with another person who is bragging, boasting, being praised or simply soaking up the adulation of others. If you look at your resentments honestly, I believe you may find resentment of the competitive rat race we call life. Sibling rivalry is resentment of competition. Jaques Lacan made some important discoveries in his study of the "mirror stage," a stage of development in which we recognize our reflection and realize that we have two forms of experience, interior and exterior. The mirror makes us distinct from others. The power to control the mirror is the power to tell us who we are. The older I get, the more disgusted I get with people from my age group who are trying to impress me with their resumes, their ego trips or their artistic abilities. It's all a big lie. The ego is a false self created to impress others and make one's "self" acceptable to others. It's a necessary stage of development, but not one that, at the end of the day, many of us really look back on with joy.
7
Envy is a spur. Use it to your advantage.
1
I just love it when people feel the need to take a subject like this and wrench it into a sophist's argument painted in so-called "Philosophy" --
"Aristotle described envy not as benign desire for what someone else possesses but 'as the pain caused by the good fortune of others.'”
Okay - how about --
"Jealousy is all the fun you think they had."
--Erica Jong
"One of the reasons envy does not take a holiday is that we never give a rest to the impulse to compare ourselves to one another."
However -
In Alcoholics Anonymous - along with many other spiritual disciplines of thought and behavior - there's a saying which basically says -- "Compare and Despair."
"For instance, I often find a reason to become angry with people I am envious of. But if I can identify the lizard of envy crawling around in my psyche, I can usually tamp down the ire."
And -
"Kierkegaard...actually did not deny Aristides excellence but confessed something about himself, that his relationship to excellence was not the happy infatuation of admiration but the unhappy infatuation of envy.”
Or - In other words --
"To cure jealousy is to see it for what it is - a dissatisfaction with self."
~ Joan Didion
And finally - as far as turning this into an intellectual and philosophical argument is concerned --
"An intellectual is a person whose mind watches itself."
~Albert Camus
""People who lean on logic and philosophy and rational exposition end by starving the best part of the mind."
~J.B. Yeats~
3
I am truly envious of your ability to quote (and spell) Kierkegaard, Nietsche and Camus. But what I most envied this week was someone else's 2 year old grandchild having more vocabulary than mine!
1
Mind over destructive emotions. I have forgotten how it feels to be jealous or envious.
This may not always be a good thing, as I often fail to consider what motivates those around me.
2
The person I envy most is the person I might have been.
9
Provoking envy in others is an unkind and even cruel desire to feel Schadenfreude. Envying or coveting something for oneself is a transgression of the 10th Commandment. But, as long as Life is eternal struggle between Good and Evil, envy is a manifestation of the latter. If you are overcome with it, gripe, grind the teeth, pray, but grin and bear it, until the pendulum swings towards the Good.
1
Thank you for the time and effort you generously gave us with this wonderful thought piece on the power of self-reflection. As a professor of engineering I envy your mastery of our ancestor’s hard won knowledge of human lessons and wish as a society that you and your colleagues were once again vaunted and elevated over our current obsession with money and tribal power. I recall the very instance when determined that I would root out the envy that I felt for the owners of a beautiful house and property I just happened to be passing by as I drove to a conference along a. Eautiful Australian ocean road. The instantaneous rage and hatred that overcame me. The roiling semi-coherent thoughts of (impotent) revenge and retribution. What on earth possessed me I thought, and being keen at the time to find ways to regain control of the (far too many at the time) negative emotions and “stinking thinking” ruling and ruining my life, this became the stepping stone for my commitment to dig out my internal landscape to bedrock For more than 40 years I led as you say, “an un-examined life”. But how did I get there and how many else of us are similarly crippled by this? Historically the Church, Schools and Universities helped, led, and oftentimes forced us to examine the untamed beast, but the hallmarks of our current leadership and institutions are anything but interested in this ( retired politicians and CIA directors aside). It will surely be the key to Western civilisation’s downfall.
3
I am rather envious, but I am not thinking it is a bad thing! I was born with spina bifida and many painful complications. So the painfully healthy who can't comprehend health limitations are my friends and I am happy they do not carry my burdens. I am also envious------but not angry that others fare better than I do.
13
Envy and jealousy are distinct sentiments but are both desires, often exploited by advertisers. Envy is occasional and triggered, comes and goes, while jealousy could be sustained like a fire and lasts as long as there is memory. However, both desires stem from admiration of the other(s) with the difference that in envy we would like to be like those we envy or live like them (like in French Envie). When we envy we believe that it is achievable. Jealousy on the other hand is a desire we cannot fulfill, at least without a big sacrifice.
The author believes that he is envious when he sees sixty-and seventysomething fitness fanatics crowing about the umpteen miles they log on, or a documentary focused on some people who have committed much of their lives to keeping young people out of jail. With all due respect If he does not do anything about his envy and I have reason to doubt he may not, his envy is probably jealousy.
I envy the author for this excellent piece.
5
Envy is for conformists. During the Great Depression wealthy people jumped from high buildings after losing their fortunes.
"Above all, those most subject to envy, which carry the greatness of their fortunes, in an insolent and proud manner; being never well, but showing how great they are, either by outward pomp, or by triumphing over all opposition or competition..'
"Of great riches there is no real use, except it be in their distribution; the rest is but conceit."
Francis Bacon
3
Envy is a bedrock factor of progressive hatred-training. Teaching the easily fooled to hate all rich people has been the easy argument to get young adults to hate business and employers for nearly a century now.
As progressivism turned to environmentalism with the fall of the Soviet Union, hate-the-rich became the starting point for those who would be trained to think that they were saving the earth (with the life of the founder of Earth Day safely hidden away.)
It's good to see it discussed openly, but the intact adult has to realize how fundamental hate-the-rich has been in Democratic Party campaigns since before Roosevvelt worsened the Great Depression.
Wow, L'osservatore !
No one envies you.
22
Typical conservative response. Associating envy with materialism and wealth. That said. here is what I envy - I envy people with 20/20 vision (I'm blind as a bat). I envy people that can reach the top shelf of a cupboard without climbing onto a chair or step ladder. I envy people with musical talent. My list goes on with things like these. As far as money and possessions, I will quote the singer Sinead O'Connor - "I do not want what I do not have."
13
To me, it's interesting -- and highly significant -- that some people are admired (and praised) for their accomplishments while other people are envied (and resented) for theirs.
That is, certain people are given permission by family, friends and communities to excel (in love, business, art, athletics, etc.). But the same achievements by other people invoke jealousy and feelings of betrayl.
What's the difference?
It seems that persons who are already perceived as being naturally attractive, athletic, born into higher classes, etc., don't defy the expectations of others. But persons who have to work hard to improve themselves and subsequently succeed have somehow betrayed the natural order of things.
Consider the rich boy who goes to an Ivy League school: that's expected and is praised. But the poor but bright youngster who becomes the first in their community to attend college is often jealously accused of "thinking now that you're better than the rest of us."
In America especially, we have a myth about how self-reinvention through hard work and determination is highly valued. But in fact, those who succeed against expectations are often the most bitterly envied.
57
You are really indicting the culture in those poor neighborhoods as the unseccessful search for any excuse for their failure to succeed and end up trapping the achievers living near them.
Sometimes, the successful poor students is the biggest opportunity his neighborhood has received in years, yet these cultures of rejection shut out that ray of sunshine.
7
But the salient difference is the rich kid likely lives with other rich kids, who also go to good colleges. The poor kid is likely leaving behind many classmates who will not fare so well in life. It's not hard to understand why the latter group is envious.
As a poor kid at an Ivy, I felt nothing but respect and support from my classmates.
15
You miss the larger point: in America especially, but not uniquely, we give lip service to the merit of hard work, but in truth we value trickery above all else. Many people, I will suggest conservatives especially, but hardly limited to them, expound on the virtues of hard work, but what they *really* value more, is ‘hustle.’ I note the distinction has to do with, effectively, rate of return. Many people love get-rich-quick schemes – slow and steady may win the race, but you’d never know it! Most people just don’t like slow and steady, slogging away and making deliberate progress. No, people want it all, and they want it now. How do yet get that? NOT by hard work, in the traditional sense, but by ‘working hard’ at swindling people. This is how I define ‘hustle’ – the same definition which is applied to the word as one of its recognized meanings, as in to con, scam, bamboozle people.
I would suggest that people who might envy ‘those who succeed against expectations’ are also those most prone to click on ‘one weird trick to <fill in the blank>‘ and ‘<fill in the blankers> hate this’ ads on-line; the very same who value ‘money for nothing.’
Consider this: what *really* is the supposed American dream? At one time it was freedom to pursue one’s life without being under the yoke of subjugation. Lately it seems to mean the ability to get rich quick, and never lift a finger again for the rest of one’s life. Yet we ‘value’ hard work, supposedly. No, not really.
23
envy and greed may be bad if they drive destructive forces - or good if they drive creativity that benefits others
(everything is equally good and bad)
not having what you want - but wanting what you have ...
I'm typing this on a 2011 HP laptop I was given for free (written off by my boss) - it's slow to boot despite an SSD, and Bluetooth doesn't work. I could easily afford a top new one, but I don't want to - I appreciate the quality of this solid build professional device which just works for me, I’ve carried around the world, and hasn't broken.
reminds me of a story about an Italian guy inheriting his grandfather's lifetime artisan cheese making farm - seeing how he had always used this special stick at a certain time to prod some part of the process, he attributed it with a mystical status. When he much later asked his almost-dying grandfather about the stick, he replied dismissively 'oh that - was just something I picked up at the time - never thought about it'
so 'nothing is either good or bad - but thinking makes it so'
4
This has to be one of my favorite essays in The Stone.
I grew up with two very bitter parents. I learned at a very young age that the root of their anger was envy, the intolerable admiration for others. It wasn't that difficult to see.
I do feel envy from time to time, though seldom over material possessions or professional accomplishments.
Rather, it's an odd sort of envy of people who are too certain and sure about life. Sometimes they're religious, other times pigheaded and stubborn, but almost always cocksure of the righteousness of their goals and beliefs. I find myself getting angry and argumentative with them; perhaps an attempt to crack their monolithic certitude.
Doubt was my salvation as a child: It allowed me to dismiss my parents' delusions about the world around them. And doubt is one of my greatest strengths as a scientist.
But at the end of the analysis, doubt also comes with at least a penumbra of insecurity about unprovable beliefs that are essential to my well being. I'm envious of those who perpetually live beyond this shadow.
46
Doubt is extremely healthy, hammond.
It allowed you to see the fatal flaws in your parents ways.
As for the ham-headed cocksure in life, humor is the proper antidote, not silly, useless envy.
21
"Know thyself"...so said ancient Greek philosophers. And there lies the root of living with and ideally transcending a trait in the DNA of every human being alive, envy.
This opinion piece by Gordon Marino is for me a wonderful lesson in philosophy which gracefully leads into modern day psychology.. with a bit of a nod to Freud's "id, ego, and superego." Envy is indeed alive and well. At 73 I am still fighting my Italian tendency of the "malocchio" directed toward those who are obviously better in certain areas than I (and always will be). But it's okay because I see this "thing" in myself - and others - and try to make a conscious decision and effort to turn it into positive energy for self-improvement and civility rather than vindictiveness. It ain't easy, but it is certainly doable.
20
Well, it probably doesn't help that many people use social media specifically to provoke feelings of envy in others... I'm not inclined to be particularly envious of others (at least I don't see this as a dominant emotion for me, even if I experience it on occasion), but I do get really deeply annoyed at the self-portrayals on social media. Because they are essentially begging to be applauded and lauded, and pretty much always for the best parts of their lives, accompanied by the best photos of them. I could never, ever imagine presenting myself like that to others. I would hate myself for it. But many people do, and I can't imagine that they are just completely unaware of how they are trying to get others to see them. So you have to remember that many people are trying to engineer envy.
102
I think people do that because they're insecure and trying to manage their image more so than they're intentionally trying to provoke envy. But I could be wrong.
27
We all have tiny blips of envy now and then, but if someone is envious by nature then I think it's a lot like hoarding: no matter how many cats or expired coupons or millions of dollars you've amassed, nothing will ever be enough for you.
68
That's the first noble truth of Buddhism: Life is unsatisfying. Wanting is the source of suffering.
11
Dear Prof. Marino, Thanks for your great wisdom.
Surely, we can try to turn envy to advantage.
One way is to openly admire people we envy, with praise and thanks. We can try to be more humble about our own value.
In 1922, Einstein wrote a note with the words:
"A calm and modest life brings more happiness than the pursuit of success combined with constant restlessness."
In 2017, that short note sold for $1.56 million at auction.
Perhaps Einstein can help us with our envy.
------------------------------------------------------
61
Giddy-up, Harry !
6
Self-awareness, as you mentioned, helps a great deal. May I suggest meditation as a way to develop self-awareness and detachment. It seems to wash away some of the ills of materialism. For example, that new luxury SUV sitting in the neighbor's driveway doesn't seem to affect us much.
21
Envy can be channeled toward great good, as the author suggests, but envy typically is nothing but strychnine.
"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
- LBJ
“Resentment is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die. ”
- Carrie Fisher
“Our envy always lasts longer than the happiness of those we envy.”
- François de La Rochefoucauld
“Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.”
- H.L. Mencken
“Comparison is the thief of joy.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
“Envy is the art of counting the other fellow's blessings instead of your own.”
- Harold Coffin
What's strange is that the 'secret' to happiness is no secret at all; it's profoundly simple.
"Happiness is not having what you want. It is appreciating what you have."
“The secret of happiness, you see, is not found in seeking more, but in developing the capacity to enjoy less.”
- Socrates
“Manifest plainness,
Embrace simplicity,
Reduce selfishness,
Have few desires.”
- Lao Tzu
It's easy if you try.
And humans should never be compared to one another; it's inherently destructive.
Each human is a flower....although on occasion it's apparent that the seed was obviously rotten to start with.
Drink up !
Shabbat Shalom !
195
Thank you for a great comment. I'm envious.
14
Socrates, you continue to be my hero!
8
"Jealousy is all the fun you think they had."
--Erica Jong
"As a moth gnaws a garment, so doeth envy consume a man."
--St. John Chrysostom
"We tend to forget that happiness doesn't come as a result of getting something we don't have, but rather of recognizing and appreciating what we do have."
~ Fredrick Koeing
"To cure jealousy is to see it for what it is - a dissatisfaction with self."
~ Joan Didion
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; True nobility is being superior to your former self.
~Ernest Hemingway
"Fair play with others is primarily not blaming them for anything that is wrong with us."
~Eric Hoffer
Whenever you are about to find fault with someone, ask yourself the following question: "What fault of mine most nearly resembles the one I am about to criticize?"
~Marcus Aurelius
"Always be a first-rate version of yourself, instead of a second-rate version of somebody else"
~Judy Garland
18
“And so, I started to lacerate myself with the thought that instead of writing about envy, I should harken to it and spend more time helping those kids on the brink of falling into the slammer. And maybe I will.”
… and maybe you won’t. But that’s okay, too, because human envy may be the single most important quality that an unexplained intellectual and emotional evolution has granted us to move the species forward from bare-subsistence-level existence to a material prosperity that if not enjoyed universally still is enjoyed by many; and perhaps someday universally.
The individual’s drive to achieve distinction, or a competitive spirit, in large part can be associated with (some might say “blamed on”) envy. Some with talent in a particular field may see those who have exploited similar talent to win high esteem and pecuniary benefit, and resolve to achieve similar distinction and benefit themselves. That drives innovation, as those that seek such things set about to earn them, et voilá, we have Viagra, or a consummate rendition of Othello, or a philosophy professor who keeps kids out of jail.
It’s not ALL about better understanding one’s emotions in order to know oneself more profoundly and truly. A big part of the upside of envy is Viagra and all those other things.
Evolution is SO mysterious and interesting.
1
I am coming to realize that there is a wider chasm between us than I had at one point imagined; all of the things you attribute to evolutionary progression, I perceive as the opposite. Envy is not “the single most important quality” leading to “material prosperity” – empathy is. Both start with ‘E’ and end with ‘y’ – but everything in the middle is just messed up.
What distinguishes humans from other animals on this planet is not so much the ability to cooperate, albeit an important prerequisite for advancement (because despite civilization-enabled thinking from certain quarters otherwise, none of us are ‘competitive’ in the big scheme of things when acting alone), but rather the ability actively seek out ‘better’ for no particular reason. Practice makes better. Innovation makes better.
It’s not about impressing anyone, or some twisted practice of one-upmanship, driven by envy or greed. At least not for me; inspiration strikes, and I am bound to pursue, not to better someone else, but to better us all. You suggest envy might act “to move the species forward,” yet how did ‘the species’ get transmogrified into ‘the me?’
Selfishness is NOT a requirement for human advancement. Envy is NOT a good and/or necessary thing (seriously, can we not put the Gordon Gekko nonsense to rest once and for all?). We create because we can, not because of some inferiority-driven need for ‘high esteem.’ Honestly, I pity those who need envy to feel warm inside.
15
Erik L.:
You're right: we're VERY different.
Because I understand the central nature of incentives I see human reality with fewer emotionally convenient filters. You, on the other hand, seem to require the emotional filters to rationalize "goodness" from self-interested impulses. I can see "goodness" in the achievement and its beneficial impact on humanity, regardless of its less-than-pure motivations. Apparently ... you can't.
And Gekko was only PARTLY wrong: greed CAN be good but must be controlled and channeled.
Greed in my book means deprivation of others; if that equates to "good" in yours, we apparently have a different dictionary.
1
What a lovely piece; I particularly like Kierkegaard's insight that envy requires a "secret admiration" of the other.
Although if this is true, I wonder what the feeling of "they don't deserve what they have" amounts to. Suppose another employee gets a promotion that you thought s/he didn't deserve. There is no secret admiration of the other person here. Perhaps this is a case of jealousy and not envy, and jealousy is something like "you wish you had what they have" while envy is something like "you wish you were as they are." If this is true, jealousy and envy would be more distinct than we might have previously believed.
13
The word you are looking for is indignation, as in, "righteous indignation of the one percent." It's a perfectly valid emotion, though perhaps wise to check for the presence of envy before acting on it. Jealousy is the desire to possess what you have, exclusively, and is quite distinguishable from envy on this basis.
4
Envy is such an ugly emotion and I try to avoid it at all costs! I don't do facebook, don't look at trendy magazines in waiting rooms, watch little tv, and avoid the mirror if I can. It helps. I'm not constantly reminded of how I stack up to others. Beyond that, I'm incredibly grateful for my health, good relationships and all the beauty of nature out there. So, remembering those help quell the envy. I do have to say, there's nothing like envy to end a friendship - and that goes along with one-up-manship and besting others. Envy truly is not pleasant in oneself or in others.
The notion of envy being useful to recognize what one values - yes, but then if that's addressed, it's not envy anymore.
20
I think practicing gratitude for what I do have in life keeps envy as bay.
I also like the quote: "Craving is a river in a flood."
33
Seriously? You're scaring me.
I can't say that I've never been envious, but it's never been anything like the aggressive, constant presence you and your sources describe. More like a very occasional "I wish I had that."
Perhaps that's why I've sometimes been a victim of it. It doesn't occur to me that people would think that way.
It has to be a miserable way to live.
49
It is possible your experience of envy has been limited to the occasional "I wish I had that." It is also possible that your self-awareness is rather limited and the times when you thought you were a victim of envy were instances of projection.
10
While I don’t think anyone is immune to envy, there are, perhaps, people who feel it less often. I don’t feel it very often so it surprises me when envy or jealousy is the root of someone’s behavior. If it isn’t something that is in your nature, it’s hard to understand the intensity of it in others and the extent meant it influences their behavior.
16
Steve, yeah, well, anything is possible if you adopt the right fantasies, as you have here.
I enjoyed this article. I think with the proliferation of social media, it's a great time to reflect on the uses of envy. I agree that examining what makes one envious can awaken understanding about one's true priorities (and whether those may need to shift.)
44
Envy is different from jealousy. Jealousy involves three people, for example, a pretty woman and two men who are in love with her. The one who does not win her favor, is often jealous of the man who does.
Envy is wanting something that some one else has. For example, a child in a sandbox who want the shovel another child has. The mother who wants her children to develop psychologically, will instruct each child that they must take turns sharing the shovel.
I am an older man, who enjoys swimming three times a week. It provides a social environment where I can schmooze with other older men in the locker room, it is relaxing, I can mediate while swimming and think about past and future, and of course it provides exercise. But I am not an obligate swimmer and don't swim five or six times a week. I don't envy the jocks who do, because I enjoy other things in life, such as music and art.
I am envious of some people, such as doctors, who have large practices, brag about their degrees and honors, and keep me waiting two or three hours for them to examine me in their busy practices. To reduce such envy, which is an unpleasant emotion, I try to see other doctors who treat patients as human beings rather than as cogs in machine. It is very important to restrain negative emotions, especially if they cloud reality.
40
So true. Also I realized that when you envy someone, later you may discover the unhappiness in their life, and feel bad for them!
11
Do you wish you could keep people waiting three hours for you ? If not, you are justifiably impatient and are bristling at being treated rudely. Wanting to be treated respectfully is totally reasonable.
7
In a novella-length essay for Oxford University Press on the Seven Deadly Sins, Joseph Epstein opined that 'envy is the sin that has no upside'. I side with him.
'I am Envy', proclaims its personification in Marlowe's Doctor Faustus: 'I cannot read, and therefore wish all books were burnt ... but shall thou stand, and I sit? Come down, with a vengeance!' [*] Envy is not about ambition or achievement; those are more tied to Pride and Avarice. Pride and Avarice might move the speaker to learn to read and beat out the scholar for Department Head or amass publications and collect rare manuscripts. Envy would simply burn down the library - if need be, with himself in it, as long as he deprived the object of his envy of any gain or pleasure. Iago (probably Shakespeare's best depiction of envy, and one of his few characters who has not even one tiny redeeming virtue) describes envy in 'he who filches from me my good name, robs me of that which not enriches him, but makes me poor indeed'. And indeed Iago's scheming doesn't aim to yield him the promotion he covets, or Desdemona, or any benefit. He goes down to ruin, fine as long as Othello and Cassio go down with him.
Envy dwells at both ends of the political spectrum,right-wingers who glory in being ignorant, but also left-wingers whose idea of 'equality' would be fine with everyone being poor, as long as no one is even a little richer.
[*]One of Marlowe's collaborators, not Marlowe, probably wrote this scene.
16
I like your comment. Except I don't think left-wingers (of which I am one) want equality as long as everyone is poor. I think we want everyone to have 'enough.'
13
Our President is motivated by envy of his predecessor, and the republic is burning!
12
Anne: Some, I think, do. But I also think there is a faction of the left that would be pleased with everyone having naught but a burlap loincloth and an empty begging bowl, as long as no one had even a scrap more. Philosopher Harry Frankfurt's brief treatise 'On Inequality' persuasively argues that the term 'equality' in current discourse actually means 'fairness' and asks rhetorically, why would it matter if some people had more, even a lot more, as long as everyone had *enough*? Well ... experimenters have reported that monkeys rewarded with cucumber slices for performing a task rebelled when another monkey arbitrarily got a grape - a better reward - for the same task. Even though the cucumber slices were enough - and before the grape was introduced to the equation, the monkeys were satisfied with them - they clearly felt cheated that the other monkey got more, and often threw the cucumber slices back at the experimenters, forgoing their reward entirely and depriving themselves of even the lesser benefit. There, friends, is the seed of envy, encoded in our Darwinian genetic heritage. ;}
(Molly Bloom: I mostly agree ... but do we have to drag Trump into *every* discussion?)