That’s cool and all, but California is the most liberal state in the Union and has one of the highest murder rates with firearms.
once again someone or ones with knowledge of the shooter either failed to take action to prevent a mass shooting or facilitated the act. hopefully the father of this deranged person will be held responsible for his negligence in not safeguarding the weapons used in the assault. the authorities should never have handed back the weapons in the first place.
1
Poor NRA. Even unarmed citizens can be brave and bold and stop an armed psycho from killing more people. Now if we can just get rid of the guns owned by armed psychos. But I dream. I truly dream.
3
In the same week a guy in Toronto who's not white plows a rental Van into a sidewalk of People killing ten, so, uh, ban assault rental Vans too particularly the ones with Assault bumpers...
1
"In the same week a guy in Toronto...plows a rental Van into a sidewalk of People...so, uh, ban assault rental Vans too."
No, "uh," by your thinking, get rid of all traffic norms codified into law that most drivers follow, thereby reducing deaths.
Because why have any restrictions on driving if they don't work 100% of the time? Right, thrushjz?
5
Oh, the logical fallacy of the false comparison. Guns are specifically designed to kill. Rental vans are specifically designed to transport people. Sure, a psycho can hop in a van and do great damage, but the fact remains a van has a utilitarian value that doesn't involve killing, and it most certainly wasn't designed to kill. Guns do not have any other utilitarian value than to kill, moreover they are specifically designed to kill and nothing else. Do you understand the difference?
15
The father should be charged. I doubt the authorities told him that he could keep the guns for his son to pick later.. The man who suppled the guns in San Bernardino ended up pleading guilty " to conspiring to provide material support to terrorists” even if he didn’t know they were terrorist. The father was aware of his son’s problems. The FBI and local authorities knew the danger. Why wasn’t Reiking forced to have psychological evaluation? This is another example of mental illness on a killing spree. Is also law enforcement’s, federal and local, failure to protect citizens from an unbalanced person who they know is dangerous. But every time a mentally ill person is involved in a shooting, the take all guns away group get the banners out. But just a few days apart a van killed 10 people in Toronto. A truck killed 85 people in France in 2016. There were guns in Charlottesville but it was a car that killed a woman. In Boston it was a pressure cooker. In Oklahoma City, fertilizer in a truck. On 911 airplanes. Every 51 minutes a drunken driver accident kills some. Virginia closed its holes that allowed someone, under court order to have psychological testing, to buy a gun. Recently in Virginia, authorities were warned of a dangerous person. They went to his home and took the guns away. They did their jobs. Terror attacks, domestic or foreign, will continue but there are ways to reduce the danger. Act to keep guns from the mentally ill and make sure the law does its job.
2
I'm afraid even thoughts and prayers were in short supply for this tragedy. Perhaps because we're so desensitized that four hardly registers on the mass shooting radar; or because the next atrocity, in Toronto, came hard on its heels; or, God save us, because of who killed whom.
4
Sitting outdoors in back of house in Brooklyn I realized that some deranged citizen could have me in their site and end my life and I went indoors . Anywhere I go I look for the quickest exit in case someone goes off with a high powered gun . U shouldn’t have to live like this.
5
I wholly agree with every word, except for the last part. Tennessee can require people to register their guns all they want, and the law abiding citizens will. Those who do not care about the law will not. So a tragedy like this will not be prevented in by required registration. It might, however, be prevented if these kinds of weapons were unavailable for purchase to begin with.
3
Blame the "stigma" (of mental illness) ???
No. Educate those who say there is one. Joining them does not help.
Are you kidding me??? There is OF COURSE a stigma against people with mental illness. Maybe you don't have any experience with it, but I have had my career ruined over it.
This guy, who shot up a Waffle House naked and thought Taylor Swift was stalking him, was allowed to have his guns back. Why? Because the people around him were in denial about his mental state. The reality is that people are far more concerned about physical health than mental health (though ironically, your brain is a physical organ, and mental illnesses are essentially brain diseases). I live in Texas, where people tell you to talk to your pastor if you're struggling with a mental health problem, and where psychiatrists are few and far between.
I have LIVED this stigma. So please don't tell me that I am imagining things, because I simply am not.
3
Police busy shooting unarmed black men, while white boys and men (most who they've had contact with) commit mass murder after mass murder... What's wrong with this picture?
4
So many unstable among us, and how can one know the moment when they will truly crack and take other innocents with them. If only they would take their own lives first and it ends there. But they must steal others lives, others futures, others children. He is insane enough to steal the lives and futures of these innocents, but leave himself unharmed.
This is what drives me absolutely bonkers about gun control arguments like Ms. Renkl's, "Here’s what we do know: Because Republicans in the Tennessee General Assembly — owned lock, stock and soul by the National Rifle Association — will not require people here to register their guns, four beautiful young people with their whole lives ahead of them are being mourned by an entire city, and all the thoughts and prayers in the world will not bring them back to us."
What makes you think a person so mentally unstable that they would take any gun and kill 4 innocent people at a Waffle House would inherently follow the law by properly registering their guns when they move to the state? And if Reinking didn't voluntarily register his already illegally possessed guns in Tennessee, what difference would it have made if the TN Legislature passed such a registration law. Illinois had one and it didn't keep him from killing these folks, and it wouldn't have kept him from killing people at an Illinois Waffle House had he chosen to drive up there and shoot people.
We have a background check system for purchasing firearms, it's even more strict in Illinois. Reinking's severe mental problems were known to his family, local health officials, state and local police in Illinois, D.C. and to Secret Service and the FBI. And yet not one of those entities ever filed a report that would show up on an FBI background check. I'm sorry with that many entities involved...this is not the NRA's fault.
1
I find it interesting that people on both sides of the debate use mental illness as a talking point, but when it looks like mental illness may have actually played a serious role in a shooting, suddenly it becomes an "act of white terrorism."
1
Shame on the legislators of Tennessee; shame on the father of the shooter. I heard that the father may face federal charges--I hope he does.
Thank you to the young man who tackled the shooter. If I were in that community and were an employer with a job opening, I'd certainly contact that young man who literally showed courage under fire.
1
What this latest shooting really shows is the societal destruction that decades of the NY Times, other major media Leftist elites and our advertising industry preaching moral relativism and brain washing our population to be emotion-driven victims and mass consumption gluttons has caused. This is just another instance of a adult indoctrinated into believing that he has a right to do anything he "feels" like, who copycat acted like a 3 year old throwing a tantrum with a gun in order to get attention, bad boy fame or an adrenaline "rush". But well you know: calculation, and moral restraint are not good for business, reduce those "impulse buys" so can't have any of that profit killing old white male self discipline in our society anymore. Which leaves us with the solution our neo Marxist and Robber Baron corporatists have colluded to create - a never ending blame the least profitable means of killing ie small arms for decade after decade as opposed to stopping what actually motivates people in our society to want to kill.
At the same time this happened, just know that in Canada, yesterday, a Van plowed into a crowd of people. 10 died.:(
1
Renkl, what do you propose be done?
I cannot speak for Ms. Renkl but it seems simple enough: ban military weapons altogether and make it a lot harder to get a gun, period--especially for anyone who has exhibited the slightest propensity toward violence or hate. For the guns that are granted permission, the government could do as they do in the Netherlands: show up every six months to make sure the gun is safely stored.
Saying, as some always do, "Well, there will always be crazy people, so what's the use?" actually proves the point. There are "crazy" people everywhere, but among Western nations there is only regular gun slaughter in America. It might have something to do with the fact that anybody can buy practically any gun, and as many guns, as he wants. It's harder in this country to buy prescription cough medicine than an AR-15.
The Tennessee GOP are like their counterparts in Washington-- too cowardly to go against the NRA macho myth machine that keeps them in office even while innocent civilians continue to be murdered. They should be ashamed, but of course they are not capable of shame. Nor of introspection, or reason, or regret, or compassion, or indeed any of the qualities that denote a human heart.
5
The father should be charged. I doubt the authorities told him that he could keep the guns for his until his son came by. The man who supplied the guns in San Bernardino ended up pleading guilty " to conspiring to provide material support to terrorists” even if he didn’t know they were terrorist. The father was aware of his son’s problems. The FBI and local authorities knew the danger. Why wasn’t he forced to have psychological evaluation? This is another example of mental illness on a killing spree. It I also law enforcement’s, federal and local, failure to protect citizens from an unbalanced person who they know is dangerous. But every time a mentally ill person is involved in a shooting, the take all guns away group get the banners out. But just a few days apart a van killed 10 people in Toronto. A truck killed 85 people in France in 2016. There were guns in Charlottesville but it was a car that killed a woman. In Boston it was a pressure cooker. In Oklahoma City, fertilizer in a truck. On 911 airplanes. Every 51 minutes a drunken driver accident. Virginia closed its holes that allowed someone, under court order to have psychological testing, to buy a gun. Recently in Virginia, authorities were warned of a dangerous person. They went to his home and took the guns away. They did their jobs. Terror attacks, domestic or foreign, will continue but there are ways to reduce the danger. Act to keep guns from the mentally ill and make sure the law does its job.
This man's father is either a fool or a troublemaker.
1
American? How about Conservative republican NRA led tragedy? An unstable man was able to own an assault weapon whose ONLY function is killing people. I also don’t understand why his father gave him the guns back after they were confiscated, but that’s another sad piece of an overwhelmingly sad story. Maybe it all relates back to another editorial in this paper about the attack on education by the republicans and its consequences. It hurts the head to think about how easily this could have all been avoided.
4
Jsbliv, in August 1969 Charles Manson and his followers killed 9 people with .22 cal handguns and knives. Was that the fault of the Democrat controlled Congress or the Republican President? What about the NRA?
In August 1966 Charles Whitman killed 16 people with a hunting knife in his home and with a hunting rifle from the U of Texas tower. Was that a liberal Democrat NRA led tragedy since the democrats controlled both houses of Congress and the White House?
Oct. 1991 using his pickup truck and a semi auto pistol George Hennard killed 22 and wounded 20 in a Texas Luby's Cafe. Was that the fault of the Democrats controlling Congress or the Republican President? Or was that the NRA by itself? Or maybe the Texas governor and legislature?
July 1, 1993 Gian Luigi Ferri kills 8 in his San Francisco office building with a handgun. President Clinton's fault? Democrats who controlled both houses of Congress?
April 20, 1999. Columbine. Again, President Clinton's fault? Newt Gingrich's fault? Colorado state government?
None of the above used and AR-15.
Over the last 60 years political control has fluctuated back and forth. And throughout mentally unstable and evil people have used a variety of weapons to kill people. Why don't we blame them and see what we can do to better identify and stop them in the future?
1
Sign at the Gun March earlier this month in Denver: Maybe these kids are the answers to your "thoughts and prayers".
Would it be impolite to point out to la la Pierre and his fellow terrorists at the NRA that this "bad guy with a gun" was stopped by a very good, and brave, man without a gun? Impolite to add that the crowd in Las Vegas had many folks who were armed? They ran for their lives while bullets rained down.
If things are not changed the carnage from this stage of our Civil War might surpass the carnage from the 1860's version even though there are no armies amassed to face each other. I suppose with the rhetoric coming from t rump's White House and the republicans in congress that could also change any day now. The army part I mean.
Vote in 2018 like your life and the lives of your children are at stake. Because they are.
5
When will Americans admit that the enemy WITHIN as incarnated by this madman -- alienated young white men brimming with libidinal frustration and resentment-- are of greater existential danger to the general public than ALL of the Muslims who live in the United States today? Face it -- the losers who adhere to the 'Incel' ideology and all of the Harvey Weinsteins of the world did not get the wake up call decades ago when women started to enjoy the fruits of emancipation, including the freedom NOT to be a the beck and call of every 'grabber'.....
2
How about you not worry about what goes on in TN. Especially from a shooter that came from Illinois, was fired from Colorado and thought taylor swift was stalking him! How about we deal with mental health issues, hm?
3
Just what exactly constitutes a COMPREHENSIVE background check?
Personally, I have no problem with the gov't digging through my past. If, however, the sandbox incident in '75 is a disqualifier I might mention David (now my step-brother) pushed over my battalion of Army men with his hand NOT the tank...
2
Why is it necessary for mainstream media reporters and opinion writers to downplay the racism and terrorism that goes with this kind of act by an armed white male? I commend Ms. Renkl for even acknowledging the inherent racism in Reinking's targeting of ONLY people of color in his killing spree, and the link to the "sovereign citizens" racist policies as contributors to his mindset. But, there's a chicken-egg element to his story that can easily conflate his racism and his mental illness. Which came first? The reality, though, is that this, like every other mass killing committed by white males in this country (the overwhelming majority of the perpetrators belong to that demographic), is an act of domestic terrorism. Had the perpetrator been Arabic and a Muslim, the word would have automatically appeared in every account of the incident in every mass medium across the country. That's an assertion backed up by a raft of historical proof. There would have been little rumination about the shooter's motives. But, as is typical, the word terrorism is missing from Ms. Renkl's story. Let's call it what it is, shall we?
6
(yes, you need our voice...it'd be nice if we could see the rest of the comments...this presumably mobile-friendly variant is "progressively" more annoying with time)
3
When is the opinion piece entitled - "A Canadian Tragedy in Toronto", with the first line containing "a painful reminder of Canada's failure to protect it's own citizens from mass murderers with vans", going to come out? I image I will probably be waiting awhile.
3
Does Canada have a regular history of mass murder by van? After which they've done nothing to tighten up security checks on van rental customers, time after time? If so, then perhaps you have a point.
(Personally, I expect Canada to take some kind of action after this event to try to minimize the chances of similar attacks happening again.)
4
Canada doesn't exactly have problem with mass killings of any kind. The same cannot be said of the US.
3
Are there more vans than people I Canada? Yeah, I would t hold my breath waiting for that editorial to appear.
1
It's not a tragedy. It is stupidity. Americans values their guns more than they value their own children.
9
A half-naked man shoots up a waffle house before a brave bystander wrenches the gun away.
Just another day in the gun crazy U.S.A....
9
If true father gave guns back to son:lock him up
6
Maybe I missed DJT's usual "thoughts and prayers" for this incident. Or, did he deem these victim's lives beneath his notice as they were people of color and their nearly naked killer a fair white man?
8
Not to mention the American GREATNESS as incarnated by James Shaw's altruistic actions.
But he doesn't 'fit' in DT's MAGA narrative, 'wrong' colour.
3
People of color killed by a white man. I assume we will not hear from the president* on this.
9
To stop a white terrorist with a gun, it takes a black man without one. Maybe that's why the police are so scared of unarmed black men.
123
Wow. That was powerful.
5
Man, you said it. After I heard about this heroic action by Mr. James W. Shaw Jr., I thought to myself, "God, what if police read that as African American men having some preternatural physical ability, and use that as a pretext to further justify their shooting of black men on the streets. What if the police looked at that heroic act and said, "Yes, you see: black men cannot easily be contained or arrested, so we must shoot them."
That was the nightmare scenario that flashed in my mind when I just heard about Mr. Shaw's act, and did not yet start thinking rationally.
Look at where we are in this world, now.
5
"But while we’re spreading blame, let’s not forget to save a generous portion for members of the Tennessee General Assembly, who are so busy passing legislation designed to punish the state’s left-leaning cities that they have passed no legislation at all to protect their own citizens from maniacs with guns."
....
Tennessee is a very solidly Racist-GOP state from their legislature to their State Flag to their everyday citizens who 78% support the "sovereign citizen states rights" agenda...'nuff said.
4
Ban the AR-15. AR-15's have no justifiable use. They are not for hunting animals, they are for hunting and mass killing of people.
8
If only the waitresses were armed.........
It’s pathetic that the lackeys for the NRA put money above the lives of innocent Americans. The failure to pass responsible gun control legislation is an American disgrace that costs people their lived every day.
8
Perhaps the fact that the victims were humans of color, colors the actions of the assemblymen in Tennessee. Just heard Elvis Presley's 'In the Ghetto' driving to work. Racist tolerated violence against people of color is an old song.
Vote the republicans out of office in November.
5
The smug thoughts and prayers expressed by NRA members with the after thought that the rest of us will forget about the violence tomorrow is very like the thought process of an abuser or wife beater after an attack - they'll [the victim] let it go tomorrow. Don't let it go.
3
Once again there is no one to blame but the citizens of Tenn. you get what your vote for. I blame you and no one else. Until you decide otherwise we all suffer. To bad
2
I feel angry at Tennessee citizens and I have friends there I love!
Despite my pain and anger I'm glad this shooting took place there...perhaps they'll wake up to their stupidity and arrogance/ self righteousness re: guns.... sadly, I doubt this will happen.
2
I have friends and relatives in Tennessee... they don't vote for republicans; do they deserve to die, too?
2
Tennesseans are getting what they voted for.
2
I'm thankful the police didn't shoot Mr. Shaw.
5
Getting harder and harder to understand...
Free speech notwithstanding, we've more or less decided not to use some words that fatally pierce, and drain the dignity out of people's lives...
So - free guns notwithstanding - why can't we more or less decide not to keep some guns that fatally pierce, and drain the life out of people's bodies...
We've still got lots of other hateful words - so, we could still have lots of other guns to shoot each other with...
.....
It's become this simple for me - it's making the 2018 and 2020 elections single-issue for me...
Yeah, we got immigration and the economy...
Right after our superheroes in DC dispatch fraud, waste, and mismanagement back to the alien planets from whence they came...
So - whoever leads the 2018 discussion to a game-changing 2018 election outcome on guns will have my vote for president in 2020...
Right now, Kamala is leading by a mile...
Last person I'd ever thought I'd tilt toward - but every time I read a progressive exposé on why she's not a real progressive - she scares me less and less...
For example, from NYC's most progressive boro...
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/08/kamala-harris-trump-obama-california-...
Thought it might be fake news - but a two-factor authentication (authors and street address) sold me...
Hey - I was for Obama, before I was against him...
But it was a relative moderate - Bob Herbert - who sold me on Barry...
Hope springs eternal - and in several senses...
1
For clarity, Feinstein's bill - with a hundred pages of exceptions and fine-print - doesn't do it for me...
Shouldn't be any longer than the "Defense of Marriage Act" was...
For clarity, DOMA would almost have fit into a NYT comment...
Is there just something fundamentally wrong with the South, Republicans or white people?
3
With all do respect, I think this country has a white man can do whatever he wants problem.
73
Hear hear!
1
I'm going to try to ask the same question once again because it wasn't posted: Where are the Democrats? Doesn't anyone else find it a bit strange that the Democrats are no where to be found after each and every gun related tragedy?
This is not an American tragedy. I do own it nor want any part of the slaughter culture that we allow in this nation.
This is the definition of insanity....doing nothing every time an AR-15 mows down the innocent.
So while the sentiment is appreciated the author knows tha the in Tennessee we are all at the mercy of the gun culture, now and for as long as we do (or write) nothing.
6
guns designed to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible should not be manufactured or sold
12
Maybe something would change if Reinking had shot up the Tennessee General Assembly instead of a Waffle House. Or maybe not. After all, this is America.
4
To underscore the author's report of the disfunction in Tennessee state politics re guns: Here is a photo and article on Tennesee's "official state gun" -- A Barrett .50 calibre rifle, reportedly capable of "destroying a commercial aircraft."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/26/tennessees-new-of...
4
Because Mr. Reinking, the father of this mad killer, provided the guns that wer used to kill and wound, we should wonder why he hasn't been hauled out in public to explain what was going through his mind. That is the teaching moment of this tragedy and it should be broadcast live nationally.
I suspect this man, the dad, was one of these 'govmint can't tell us what to do with our 2nd Rights'. How crazy can does it get? If you're a parent and your child is showing the delusions attributed to this killer, would you give him back his guns? Of course you wouldn't.
So what form of mental illness does the dad display? Does he share a national irrational hysteria that sees felons coming through his screen doors late at night? Black helicopters landing troops to take over his village? His he fearful of his own manhood and his abilities to defend his family?
Four young people slain by a mentally ill man with an AR-15. They join the other dead and wounded poster children. But they are just another poster on the American wall. Shame on Congress? Yes, but shame on this Reinking family as well! Let's start with them. Let's grill this family in public and come to a better understanding of how complicit they are in these murders. Maybe it will save a life or two. Maybe someone will take a gun away from their child before they hurt someone else. Maybe one child will be saved...
5
Well, whenever Americans are shot dead by a white male employing an AR-15 we as Americans can take solace in knowing that the victims lived their entire lives, and died also, with their gun “rights” thoroughly intact.
4
People of color are actively-- and repeatedly-- being executed by white men with guns. How can our populace be so complacent, and so accepting of this repeated violence?
4
Yesterday I was at the self service car wash. I was vacuuming the interior. I noticed someone had left an ash tray from their car near the vacuum. I was focused on what I was doing when I heard a voice behind me. I turned around and saw him there and my immediate thought was he was a madman with a gun. He came to get his ashtray. Game over. The gun culture wins.
2
You said it Sister, Loud and Clear.
Let's make one thing absolutely clear. Based on what has been written about what he has said and /or done , this man could not have been confined for psychiatric reasons until he pulled the trigger. The law states you have to be a danger to self or others to be confined against your will. All of the delusions voiced were not enough. And when the law allows his father to be handed his guns (I believe that's called a loophole) his father should have said "No, he is not well. I don't want to have that responsibility". But he did not do that. Instead, I imagine, he caved to his son's demands and gave him the guns to get his son off his back. So what do we do? We can either impose stricter gun laws (perhaps, in this case the individuall must be cleared by a psychiatrist and a court to get the guns back and not allow a parent to be the arbitrator). Or, we pass confinement laws that allow people to be held against their will for their thoughts and for what they say. Think that would be a good idea? Well think about this: it would mean that confining you would be wholly subjective. So anything, really, could be used for that purpose: getting angry at work when you are turned down for a promotion, being upset about something and muttering to yourself as you walk down the street, protesting the party in power, and so on. If you think "Oh, they would never...", yes they would. And once you start down that road.....
Since the politicians and state laws been bought and paid for by the NRA - go after the money;
Arrest his father for giving his son murder weapons when he was mentally unstable - and then go after his father's bank account and homeowner's insurance policy to force painfully large payouts to families of the murdered.
Make this about the money, and things will change.
7
I have heard not thoughts and prayers offered to the victims in this case. They didn't even get thoughts and prayers from the White House.
3
Trump tweets about all sorts of nonsense in the wee hours of the morning but somehow, where four people of color were murdered, and two others wounded, he has been very reticent. I guess it would have helped had the shooter been a Muslim. Also Illinois law allowed the guns to be handed over to the shooter's father. Yet gun rights people love to say there are enough gun laws on the books already that need to be enforced. Those guns should have been confiscated then melted down and made into hangers.
4
The Tennessee General Assembly should be charged with terrorism for its lax gun laws which help spread death and carnage throughout the country.
5
Yes, the proliferation of firearms is a major factor in the number of these types of murders but I fear fetishizing the instrument obscures more primary causes. Yes, the unavailability of mental health services is another factor but it too misses the root issue by a bit. I wonder what it is about American culture, economics, education and entertainment that seems to make mass shooting a more prevalent response to an increasingly wider range perceived personal trouble? What is it about American risk-reward that makes the troubled among us think mass shooting will ease their suffering?
I don't know. I wish I did.
3
According to other news reports, the shooter had stolen a BMW from a car dealer that was found at his apartment, but police did not identify him in time to catch him before the shooting.
There are so many things that did not happen that could have prevented the Waffle House tragedy. The loose handling of guns, the release of a man who seemed to be mentally ill, this car thing. Who knows what could have stopped this trajectory long ago?
You nailed it, the Tennessee State Government is in the pocket of the NRA, from the Governor to the State Senate, House, and pretty much down into every elected office.
After living here since the mid 70's, we are going to be so glad to be seeing Nashville in our rear mirror for the last time later this year (If we don't get killed first).
4
And in this week’s mass shooting, we find an angry (and naked) white male with guns. The only two questions that deserve serious consideration are (in order):
1. Why was he angry?
2. Why did he have guns?
1
VOTE! Writing, speaking, marching, praying and all other forms of protest are useless. Make gun control a single issue for all voters. Voting NRA puppets out of office is the only answer.
2
We need school walkouts and general strike days for every gun massacre from Columbine until now, until rational gun legislation is passed! Enough is enough! What on earth was that dad thinking giving his mentally unstable son his guns back?! Why weren't those guns confiscated and discarded of in the first place - the son is an adult after all?
1
Very little we can do about crazy. A lot we can do about assault weapons.
2
I am afraid to say that no Reoublican legislator will change regarding gun violence unless a beautiful member of his or her own family is a victim of one of these weekly American tragedies. I hope that they never have to suffer like so many hundreds of American families, but how else will they ver change to protect us from guns and their employer, the NRA?
Look at Donald Trump's twitter - he never mentioned this gun massacre! The past week has Trump making repeated comments about "fake news," "fake news media," railing against James Comey, demanding the investigation of Comey and Hillary Clinton for "crimes," "Mister Magoo" Attorney General Jeff Sessions, Trump's new sworn enemy Maggie Haberman, Sylvester Stallone, lawyer Michael Cohen not flipping on him, "Sleepy Eyes Chuck Todd," and an endless stream of other bizarre garbage and minutiae. Not one word about this massacre. Notably, not one word from this President - who talks endlessly about courage and heroes - about James Shaw Jr., who courageously disarmed the gunman. Not one word about the four young people who were slain. If white people had been the victims, or a white man had wrestled the gun from the killer, Trump would have been all over that. We are living in bizarre times, not least of it because we're governed by madman Donald Trump.
1
If the FBI and local law enforcement fail to protect us (yes, again) from these lunatics, who have already broken laws and are known to them, how does anyone think they will be able to enforce any of the “common sense” gun laws some people are crying for?
The Republican Party claims the 2nd Amendment confers the right of self-protection and is a safe guard of liberty. In war zones across the globe the utter folly of the second conjecture is proven false every day as armed citizens discover they are no match to a modern army in the hands of despots. The self-protection argument is used to permit the ownership of guns as if they are instruments required for survival. They are not. The purpose of a gun is to kill and not to protect. The penultimate killing machine for this purpose is the assault rifle. A sensible view of the 2nd Amendment is that it is no longer relevant in the current age, more hand wringing, and prayers will change nothing.
The father needs to be also charged along with his son for Murder One - premeditated Murder of these 4 young innocent people.
The father gave the guns back to his son -
Assault Rifles of all sorts with bump stocks and rapid fire devices need to be banned from public purchase. They are weapons of war that - when fired explode the human being - or animal - to shreds.
1
Bad as it is that we are awash in a sea of weapons due to lax gun laws, I fear that what's even worse is that the NRA's relentless celebration of guns has seeped into our culture and too many people have completely forgotten how dangerous guns are. Sport shooting is fun! Guns are in the Constitution! Families bond through target shooting! If you love your family you'll protect them! After hearing enough of this rhetoric, your gun will come to seem as positive and comforting and benign as a strong front door lock or a family vacation. This mentality is what leads parents to give their kids guns even when the kid is completely unbalanced (Adam Lanza, Travis Reinking), or allow angry and disturbed kids to take the guns by not locking them up securely (too many cases to mention.) It's what allows parents to be so casual with guns that their toddlers get them. It's what allows people to feel that it's OK to keep a gun around when marital tensions start to spiral out of control. If we can't remember that guns are dangerous, we definitely do not deserve to have them.
Mr Shaw is a rare kind of person; one who goes towards a threat and fights it, rather than running from it or freezing in fear. We can't say enough about his bravery.
But he's a unicorn. This could have been so much worse and the first solution is reasonable national gun legislation.
Further, will the gun every be de-sanctified? Are movie audiences ever going to say 'we've worshipped gun violence long enough....what else have you got?' As long as boys are brought up to think it empowers them and solves all problems, this will continue at some level.
1
let's save a little shade for a health care system that puts mental health care just out of reach for most people who need it.
this guy was delusional, but he held a job. He charged the White House and the FBI decided he shouldn't have access to guns.
still, we had a naked guy running around at night with a war weapon being stalked by Taylor Swift, and until he pulled the trigger, he was safe from the law.
The safety and security of gun owners preempts that of the rest of us. It's our fault.
1
How would having his guns registered with the state if Tennessee have prevented this? I missed that part.
2
...the average gun owner in America owns eight guns...most states in the U.S. allow for open carry of a firearm...and most of those states allow for open carry without a license....almost 40% of Americans own guns.....why is everyone surprised there is gun violence in our Country.
1
What good is it to confiscate firearms if you're going to turn them over to a family member? They should have been kept in storage at the police station.
Father needs to be charged with these murders, what kind of a maniac, knowingly, allows a mentally disturbed person to have weapons like these?
The father has more blood on his hands than the actual killer in my opinion, the only good thing to come of this is that he will have to live with this for the rest of his days, it might not even bother a man like this though....
Crazy people are keeping the Democrats in power, so the old corrupted media hates to blame crazy people for shootings.
In the same way, loiterers being arrested for hanging around a business in Philly recently and not buying anything had to pumped up into a racial crusade because truth hasn't mattered in our media for years.
But most multiple shootings happen because somebody is nuts, and clearly this shooter fits the bill.
Do the media want the crazy to be kept away from guns? Of course not. They are convinced that this is their one chance to do away with all rights to gun ownership.
This wooden relationship with reality is why Trump will be smiling after November's election.
This is not an American tragedy, it is the American quotidian. We have definitely lost the script of the American Dream and are now living the American nightmare. We hate each other and we kill each other. That's what we do now. And I mean no disrespect to the people in the picture but we are also eating ourselves into diabetes and early death...victims, they are, of a food industry with the same moral compass as the gun industry. God help us!
56
In his book'12 Rules for Life', Jordan Peterson notes that 'by June of 2016, unbelievable as it may seem, there had been one thousand mass killings (defined as four or more people shot in a single incident, excluding the shooter) in the US in twelve hundred and sixty days. That is one such event on five of every six days for more than three years'. Of the U S population, mass shooters accounted for .00000309597%. If I understood the purpose of including that statistic, It was to point out that the type of people who pursue such a nihilistic agenda should not be encouraged. He advises, as Jesus did, that before we exercise judgment on other people we should set our own house in perfect order. Not that there aren't any bad actors in the food industry.
Also, for some reason I noticed the woman wearing the T-shirt with the text "Cassius Clay USA" printed on the front. She probably knows that Cassius Clay was Muhammad Ali, who was, during the peak of his career, often referred to as the "Black Superman". I consider Mr. Shaw, another Black Superman. Long may he live and prosper.
2
Let's emphasize not only the need for more strict gunlaws even more particularly in the case of Tennessee and this young man's ability to get guns from dear ole dad, but the lionization of murderous and meaningless rampages by actors in movies and tv shows which litter our homes and movie theaters where anyone can watch. Young men in particular seem to find this violence thrilling. But to second Irby and Bernard, the real domestic terrorists sit in board rooms, or direct or play in movies and videos, and other who "draft" policies that allow--why???--the sale of AR guns. TO WHAT PURPOSE? This is real sin and that the NRA has the position it holds in this country and the sway over politicians is the real criminality.
And special thanks to Justices Roberts, Scalia, Alito, Kennedy and Thomas for their great help in making AR-15s easily available. Will you ever see them paying respects to the victims of their ruling? No, because they are cowards.
1
How sad that the NRA has such control over Republican politicians. Even sadder that the gullible folks in Tennessee fall for it.
A very well written, informative and timely essay.
Thank-you New York Times for publishing this and providing your readers with these tragic/worrisome, but much needed facts and insights.
I had no idea Tennessee had the most permissive gun laws in the country.
3
Well said Ms. Renkl. TN lawmakers also allow guns in the state house, but banned 'dangerous' protester signs. They recently could not even get a second on a resolution to condemn white supremacy to get it out of committee. And they seem to get confused about whether they are writing laws or evangelic Sunday school lessons of the Westsboro Baptist Church ilk when in session. Legislation against the LGBT community resulted in CA lawmakers being banned from traveling to TN. Meanwhile you have reps like Scott DesJarlais who opposes all abortions except those he needs for his mistresses. It's so bad, it's hard to tell whether to fight or give up.
Meanwhile, condolence for the victims or admiration for James Shaw does not seem to exist in the Oval nor among all too many 'fine people'.
10
The same people who believe that "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" is no barrier to gun bans invent penumbras and emanations in the 14th Amendment to enshrine in the Constitution the right to have an abortion or get a gay marriage. They're not interested in the Constitution, except in the sense that a hacker is "interested" in software security.
3
Kevin Drum makes an important point.
"If Travis Reinking had purchased a high-capacity magazine for his AR-15, more people would have died. If he’d been limited to a smaller magazine, fewer people would have died. That’s simple enough, isn’t it?"
https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/04/heres-why-the-waffle-hous...
4
If further proof is needed that Tennessee and its politicians are completely off the rails when it comes to guns, here is a photo of Tennessee's "official state gun," which is said to be capable of "destroying a commercial airliner."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/26/tennessees-new-of...
Think about that the next time you are booking a flight that has a layover in Nashville or Memphis.
7
I live very close to the Tennessee border, and take issue with putting the blame on the state. It is a national issue that has grown out of ignorance and political maneuvering that rewards gun manufacturers over our citizens, and led to the SCOTUS bending interpretation of the Second Amendment for political gain. WE DO NOT NEED GUNS!!!! Just think how much our educational system, healthcare, roads, mass transit, and the fight against climate change would be improved if, instead of the 310 million privately owned guns we spent the money improving our country. And yet the NRA wants us to buy even more. Sadly, the NRA has poisoned the minds of many strong Americans to believe that their lives, livelihood and pleasure would be destroyed were it not for guns. Wake up America...this tragedy like many others rests squarely on your shoulders!
2
It is indeed a national problem, but blame also rightfully belongs to the (mainly red) states whose legislatures are subsidiaries of the NRA and whose politicians pander to a small minority of gun owners.
1
President Trump is strangely quiet these past 5 days or so, no thunderous tweets about Barbara Bush, or this shooting, maybe he is scared by the Mueller investigation of his private lawyer, and his tariffs threaten to tank the economy.
1
We may not know what caused his killing rampage, but we sure do know who and what enabled it. Laws which make it much too easy for all people to access guns, but especially people with questionable mental stability. There are lots angry people all over the world but most of them don’t end up shooting people because in most places in the world, buying a gun isn’t easy.
Whether people want to acknowledge it or not, gun laws don’t apply equally to all citizens. Philando Castile had a license to own a weapon and informed the police office who pulled him over, somehow he still ended up dead. Somehow, young white murders with with documented cases of mental instability buy guns and survive encounters with police after their shooting sprees.
Implicit bias, institutionalized racism, white supremacy, arrogance, ignorance, incompetence, and intentionality all play a role in the prevalence of mass shootings and single shootings in America. Until the Untied States begins to seriously deal with domestic terrorism in its varied forms, gun violence will continue unabated. The most insidious domestic terrorists don’t make the national news or take the form of angry white men with mental instability, they wear suits, sit in board rooms, and draft policies.
103
It does not matter to anyone in authority in Tennessee or the Federal Government how many massacres happen from Assault weapons, they will give us nothing but thoughts and prayers, because these things do not require any action, only cheap words.
The only action we have seen is from the Parkland Students.
The kind of action now is left to the voters to vote out everyone who is beholden to the NRA.
6
Police confiscate cars and other valuables all the time when people are thought to be, accused of being, or convicted of being involved in illegal activity. Stories are legion about how difficult to impossible it is to get back your belongings even if you are innocent. How difficult it is to get back your belongings, your car, when others used it and were accused of illegality. Yet this young man used his father’s guns and, presto!, the guns are given back to the father, no problem. There is some special law that eliminates guns from confiscatory policies for criminals? What’s up with that?
4
Excellent point
After the Toronto situation yesterday, it seems an evil person can use a vehicle to accomplish their goals. A gun is not necessary.
1
Another 4 young people dead but life goes on in Congress and the WH as usual. We should be grateful that they are laser focused on what's most important to Americans. I mean how depressing would it have been if Trump hadn't been able to tell his patrons at Mar Lago that he'd made them all even richer with his tax cuts. It would have ruined his Christmas. Then there is that all important banking bill reversing all the checks put on them after the financial crisis. McConnell and Ryan correctly noted that all the recent marches in America were about "small" banks and their terrible burden.
Yes sometimes we forget and think that the people we're paying are actually working for us but they're always quick to remind us that nothing could be farther from the truth.
4
I would not be surprised if the Tennessee Congress gave a medal to the father of this deranged man for standing up for the right of anyone, and I mean anyone , to carry a gun. It is the NRA in its extre form and it my become the defining event for the NRA at its worst.
1
This story barely registered.
Just like the internet spews hate, it also provides much guidance on how to organize, protest and fight against the lobbyists who control your politicians.
People who like the status quo choose door #1.
2
Yes, the shootings at the Waffle House was a tragedy, but one which gave those who despise whites, many of whom are white themselves, the opportunity for race bashing. Yes, the man accused of the shootings is white, but his race is not the reason why he did it, as many who commented on yesterday's article reporting his capture assume. We may never know why he committed the crime, but at this point, reasons don't matter. I am just disappointed in the New York Times, which claims to moderate comments for civility, for publishing the racist remarks. Thank you.
1
In Sandy Hook and now Tennessee, the weak link was the parents, one paid with her life, what should Travis’s parents pay?
It’s not a gun industry it’s a death industry.
6
The NRA argues against universal background checks. One of its go to claims is that a dad should be able to give his son a gun without government interference. Though bathed in the patina of family bonds, like all NRA claims, this claim is cynical and meritless.
Parents don't issue driver's licenses to their children. The state decides whether a child is competent to be on the road. Reinking's father made the fatal decision to return assault weapons to his son, and now four are dead.
Let's be real. An effective background check on every gun sale or transfer would not solve the gun violence crisis in America, but it would definitely help. The NRA's insidious opposition is based solely on its desire to ensure that sales of firearms, including assault weapons, remain completely unimpeded, dead Americans and terrorized communities be damned.
8
Left unsaid: "Cute white dude kills four people of color, and soon enough we will be hearing about this 'sadly confused young man,' our current version of 'hearts and prayers'." I say "racist terrorist."
10
Finding and defining what CONSTITUTES reasonable gun laws is a very delicate issue when it comes, especially, to the issue of mental health.
For ANYONE who has NO CONVICTIONS of criminal acts, despite questions of MH issues being raised OR a record of psychiatric consultation/in-patient care at a puzzle-dump there are HIPAA protections in background checks. In some states involuntary commitment IS reported but not all states have laws requiring it. http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20160106/NEWS/160109963
EVEN IF all states were on board with this law, as with this case in Nashville, there are ways around it - a friend, relative, purchasing one on the street, stealing one, etc.
The next time you eat fish ask yourself did this fish learn in their school where to go to the bathroom?
1
Often we compare gun ownership to vehicle ownership. We have national registry of vehicles. Vehicle data often leads investigators to offenders. Within minutes, officers can know the person involved just from the license plate, and they spring into action to apprehend.
The lack of a nationwide gun registration system prevents law enforcement from protecting us. It’s the “gun control” that we must have. It will absolutely be effective, and lawful gun owners should absolutely support such an effort.
6
It isn't guns, it's unfit and irresponsible people with guns. Common sense laws could have prevented this. There is absolutely no reason gun ownership should not be at the very least as controlled as owning and operating a motor vehicle. All gun owners should be trained, tested, licensed and responsible for and insured for damage caused by that gun. With common sense gun laws, the shooters guns would have been impounded, not handed over to a family member. Or better, he never would have qualified to have one, nor would his culpaple father.
5
Is it useful to call an event “an American Tragedy” which has become such an American commonplace?
Racial, religious, political and nonsensical murders in America are all driven by hatred—if there is a specific American tragedy, it seems to be our unique expression of hatred.
Guns and mental illness aren’t separate conditions from hatred but only make the expression of hatred easier to accept than the idea that hatred can be resolved.
There is the confusion that hatred is free speech; it isn’t—it’s a passion that leads to insane acts.
Hatred is curable. The man who wrestled the gun from the killer cured it for that one moment. The police who found and captured the killer cured it for the temporary future.
The American tragedy is that we don’t believe that hatred is curable.
37
I don't know if we can classify this without knowing the state of mind and possible intentions of the shooter.
There are not a lot of generalizations we can make about someone who runs around naked, except for a jacket, while shooting at people.
Isn't the fact that this is such an "American commonplace" event tragic?
4
While the president and vp of the United States have offered their “thoughts and prayers” to the country of Canada and the people of the city of Toronto they have been miserably silent about the tragedy in Nashville.
I am very ashamed and dishearten to think that this bias and racism is alive in the highest office of our land. That the president and vp have not said anything about the innocent people murdered in Nashville is beyond contempt.
And that our elected congress continues to bury their heads in the sand is also beyond contempt.
No one need a military assault rifle unless you are in the military or a member of law enforcement.
8
The second amendment has become a lethal fantasy.
It has been willfully misinterpreted by Arguably the worst SCOTUS since the Taney court, by essentially ignoring the entire first clause. We are well past the era where ones one right to self sufficiency over rides another safety. The blood on the hands of the Tennessee legislature comes from shaking hands with the NRA.
3
There is nothing democratic when our elected legislators vote their donors wishes at the expense of their constituents.
8
As long as we allow speech in the form of lobbying and the associated corruption. As long as we allow our electoral process to parcel out success using private money. As long as we allow elected officials to use public service as a stepping stone to lucrative careers lobbying for those they should be regulating rather than giving free rein to. As long as the above occur, pro-gun judges will be appointed. Voters will be disenfranchised and districts gerrymandered. Those without vast funds will have secondary speech because speech through money will have more of a voice with legislators. These are all things that give the NRA more power than they should have.
My hope is that someday enough of my fellow citizens will wake up and decide they would rather take control again and reclaim democracy rather than gravitate to demagogues who make matters worse.
Only when we reach a point where our government is free of unfair private influence will the hate industry as promoted by Fox, Sinclair and Breirbart be left with no influence and guns will have fewer rights than people.
One person, one vote will not be enough. As long as we allow outsized influence through private money, we will always be fighting this fight and allow minority agendas to sow discord and disunity. We can only have democracy when our votes matter. That means a level playing field between voters where the corrosive effects of private money and power have no effect.
I hate to write this, and I certainly don't wish for it, but I suspect these incidents will go on and on, with no movement on any legislation mandating greater regulation of guns, until someone makes an automatic weapons assault on the Supreme Court or the Capitol.
And even then there might not be movement; after all, gunning down Congresspeople in supermarkets and at ball fields hasn't done much to move the needle.
And even then,
2
I haven’t read any comments yet so if I’m repeating what everyone else is saying, my apologies.
If this doesn’t explain why federal level laws regulating access to firearms must be enacted then nothing does.
New York State and City and the County of Westchester have pretty decent gun control legislation. Gun violence is not as bad as in other parts of the country where access to firearms, whether legally or criminally obtained, is more common.
Why are people in another state able to legislate my safety and chances of being gunned down in random acts of gun violence.
Strict local laws are to no avail if people of whatever state of sanity can simply acquire weapons purchased legally in these so called “source states”.
Would it be so awful to limit civilians to revolvers and bolt or pump action rifles with limited internal magazines and keep even those from the mentally ill?
The desire for large capacity magazines and miltary style semi-automatic rifles is driven to a large extent by people’s desire to emulate Special Operations Forces that have been lionized in film, television, and fiction in light of our continuing wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, and elsewhere.
There are a lot of folks out there who want to play out their macho fantasies, and the arms industry is more than happy to abet them and reap the profit thereof, and the NRA plays mouthpiece to them all.
Wake up!
95
The gun lobby and their bought politicians acknowledge it is impossible to completely eliminating mass shootings by addressing “motive” (e.g., mental illness) and “opportunity” (e.g., hardening soft targets, from schools to churches to waffle houses). But as long as they can keep that the focus they are happy with just “reducing” mass shootings.
By contrast, when it comes to addressing the “means” -- limiting access the guns themselves -- they howl that this remedy – things like comprehensive background checks and eliminating public access to military rifles designed to kill scores of people in seconds -- will not “completely eliminate” the problem.
Addressing both access to guns and the types of guns available to the public, would be far more effective in reducing these incidents than trying to harden the trillions of “soft targets” throughout the country and/or trying to figure out when one of the hundreds of millions of people throughout the country might be the next to snap.
The NRA supporters see every election as a single issue referendum; if a candidate speaks in favor of increased gun control, the NRA pours in money to defeat that candidate. Those in favor of increased gun control must vote this November with the same focus. If a candidate accepts money from, or repeats the NRA propaganda, those in favor of sensible gun control must support the opponent.
If change is what you want, this must be the first, and perhaps only, issue considered in determining your vote.
1
These slaughters continue because gun lovers and their supporters only care about their own safety. They don't really care how many people are killed as long as they feel that they and their families are safer by having guns. There are many regulations that could be passed to lessen the carnage. Here is an obvious list:
-License owners with regular renewals required.
-Only allow sales by licensed dealers (no private or internet sales) who must do background checks in a federally standardized data base that all states must comply with.
-Any evidence of violent behavior like domestic abuse, mental problems, PTSD, torturing animals, etc. would disqualify one from owning a gun.
-Outlaw all military type weapons.
-Require gun safety training before one can own a gun.
-Limit the number of guns one can own. Start taxing guns owned over a specified number.
-Track 100% of all bullets sold.
-Require all owners who have children to lock up their guns in their homes in standardized theft resistant cases.
-Require all owners to be held financially responsible for any crimes committed with their guns.
There is more that this can be done, but the reality is that nothing will get done until the Republicans are removed from power. Until then the slaughters will continue, by design.
2
One other thing is clear: Reinking had accomplices. They probably used him to commit a terrorist attack because he was mentally ill, a "trick as old as the Sicilian hills." The police won't be able to get a coherent story out of him because of his psychosis. But someone gave him clothes, a backpack and a gun and ammunition, and abetted his flight from the law. Where else would he get those things, from his truck? No, he abandoned that at the scene. From his home? No, the police staked it out immediately. He couldn't go there. He had help, and those people need to be found.
I'm a liberal and former gun owner who strongly supports reasonable gun control measures. It seems our best arguments to enact stricter gun controls (common-sense laws such as universal background checks) are (a) the "well-regulated" part of the 2nd Amendment and (b) the "militia" part of 2A. Regarding (a), I don't know if the Supreme Court has interpreted this to mean that all who own a gun(s) must serve in a militia, but I'd certainly like to know. If you own a gun, are you automatically part of a militia? And (b), has SCOTUS said that if you want to own guns, you must serve in a well-regulated militia? And does that only mean our National Guard, or any militia, because the definition of militia is quite broad? Since non-National Guard militias exist: How do we determine if they're "well-regulated," and what if they're of the stripe that refuses to recognize the federal government's authority? I don’t recall reading the answers to any of these questions in the many articles I’ve read (as gun owner and non-owner) about improving controls on gun ownership. I feel most of the discussion at the Supreme Court level (as it’s been reported) has been about other aspects. If so, perhaps there’s a path through in one of these concepts.
7
Thank you. My questions exactly. As I read the amendment we are not enforcing the first clause.
2
Thank you - much information that I didn’t know about. Very salient points and food for thought.
2
Why can't we concentrate on the important part; an angry MAN. Color is not the fundamental criterion, in America or anywhere else I can think of. Male is. Why distract the readers from this fact? I'm a liberal, but I don't like demagogic distractions.
I don't at all exclude the idea that in this instance the crime may have been racially motivated. I want more info about Reinking father and son before deciding.
But that doesn't change the fact that the two mass shootings with the highest death tolls were not done by YOUNG white men. The Las Vegas shooter was an old white man; the Orlando scooter wasn't white.
3
Go one step further with your argument. An argument in which no reference to color, gender or age will interfere. It's this...."A person with a Gun." That really is the only issue. Remove that, Americas problem solved.
3
Responsible gun owners (the vast majority) need to step up. They are allowing themselves to be represented by a thuggish lobbying group and timid (sometimes unhinged) representatives. Crafting regulations which protect their rights and the lives of all Americans needs to become a priority, and we need informed, paranoia-free gun owners involved.
7
If ever there was a column expressing the futility of gun control, this is it. His guns were confiscated. No database anywhere would have prevented him from having his father take such an irresponsible action. The top law enforcement agencies in the US had him, released him, took away his guns and he got them back. All the gun control 'solutions' would have failed to stop him. Real solutions are tough because we value our civil liberties and restraining prospective mass murderers will cast a wide net. And taking guns from everyone wouldn't prevent Ft Hood, nor a shooter who built one from scratch, a fairly easy proposition. What then, ban machine shop tools? Lock up everyone with a mental illness? Put all ex military under surveillance? In this case a determined, brave man stopped him. Just like the Texas shooter in the church, but fortunately he had a rifle, unlike those at Ft Hood who were trained and able but had restrictions and no firearms. these mass shootings didn't occur 75 years ago when guns were just as or more so prevalent and gun safety and marksmanship courses were in public schools. It isn't guns, it's us.
23
Wrong. It's Guns. Your argument reads that because laws have not solved every instance of murder, suicide, accidental shooting.....that there is no point in Gun laws. Which is odd, since the country is built upon a foundation of laws. Freedom of Speech is a law....but there are restrictions. Freedom of the Press is a law, but there are restrictions, Prohibition was a law, but there were restrictions. Unfortunately or fortunately, laws are our only way out of this problem. Lawn darts.
29
We can regulate "us" and the type and use and requirements for owning a weapon the best and smartest way that thinking, free-will humans can.
You don't throw up your hands and moan that nothing will help.
That's not rational.
Here ya go--
Maybe, just maybe, if should come to a conclusion that guns in the hands of dangerous or unstable or those who commit acts far outside normal should have their guns confiscated.
Maybe it's time to alter our too often absolutism about the right to own a gun.
Why, we could even use the law as interpreted by one of the most conservative Supreme Court Justices of all time - Antonin Scalia.
He wrote this reasonable, lawful part of his opinion in the landmark, PRO GUN RIGHTS Heller vs DC case in 2008.
"Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose…"
Logical right?
This ain't a jungle free for all.
This is a 240 year old, mature democracy with the gift of our founders - rule of law.
Law that could reasonably confiscate and completely ban a young man who shows up at a public place (the White House!) with a weapon from ever being near one again.
Not just given to a family member.
More like melted down on TV with the message, "Only responsible people get to own a gun in this country!"
All others… too bad.
We need to take all this much more seriously.
It's legal, proper and high time.
Enough.
32
AK-15 were not prevalent then.
12
It’s guns that kill and the tragic killings of 10 innocent bystanders in Nashville prove it.
If not for the guns, and especially the high powered AK-15 weapon of mass destruction, 10 people would have been alive today and Mr. Reinking would have been just another angry young white man charged with assault.
But instead, because of guns and the access to a military type assault weapon, 10 more people are dead because of gun violence. Reinking was able to amplify his anger and mental disorder into a killing rage because he had guns.
Guns need to be uniformly regulated by the federal government rather than the existing patchwork of varying regulations adopted by states. All assault type weapons need to be banned. Federal background checks need to be mandated. And when an individual is involved in any type of assault all of their weapons must be seized and held until released by a judge.
These type of sensible gun regulations do not impact anyone’s Second Amendment rights but instead give all Americans the rights to “Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness...which governments are created to Protect” as set forth in our nation’s founding document, the Declaration of Independence.
4
"t’s guns that kill and the tragic killings of 10 innocent bystanders in Nashville prove it."
It's vans that kill and the tragic killings of 10 innocent bystanders in Toronto prove it.
"If not for the guns, and especially the high powered AK-15 weapon of mass destruction'
Most states do not allow the ammunition usually used in an AR 15 to be used for hunting as it is not powerful enough.
" assault type"
Assault type is not assault. The term was invented by the media.
By the way there is no "AK 15". It's either an AR 15 (ARmalite Rifle) or an AK 47.
1
Uh, you are confusing two tragedies. In Nashville, Reinking killed four with a gun.
It was in Toronto that a differ by crazy killed ten with a van.
2
I am sorry about what happened, but don't call it a tragedy. Call it what the NRA has labeled it, "a small price to pay for freedom"! Thoughts and prayers are getting tired, and they are meaningless as our elected officials kowtow to this uncaring lobbying organization.
9
Which right is stronger - the right to shoot or the right not to be shot. Most nations choose the latter; we squarely line up for the first.
The reason for the need for national gun control - not a national gun ban, stop right now NRA - is that the actions of one state affect the lives of people in another.
A boy in Poughkeepsie shot by an illegal gun that traveled up the 95 corridor had no benefit from local gun laws. People in Chicago menaced by guns, who have kids menaced by guns from Indiana have no way to vote for local representatives to protect them.
We have said it over and over and there is nothing new to add. Those people in the Waffle House? The majority of Tennesseans and lot more across the nation see them as a reason price paid for a gun free-for-all. Their right to not be shot is non-existant.
94
But there is a right not to be shot - it's in the preamble to the constitution. The entire document exists for these purposes: " to establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity. "
Justice surely doesn't mean people randomly shooting others, tranquility speaks for itself, common defense must have some meaning dependent on who or what we are defending ourselves against but even that is a common (group) decision, not the whim or aggrieved reaction of any one person; promoting general welfare and securing the blessings of liberty require being able to live. Our entire body of law is premised on these ideas and if that isn't a right not to be shot (and a right to establish any and all common-sense restrictions on the ownership of deadly weapons) then there is no meaning in the words at all.
7
I'd be the last one to defend the spineless politicians who do the NRA's bidding to the detriment of our entire society. However, I will say that they are responding rationally to the low-hanging fruit the NRA dangles in front of them: campaign contributions, yes, but much more importantly, the NRA delivers a solid, reliable base of VOTES to any politician who toes their extremist line.
Politicians who sell out the flesh of our citizens for the chance to maintain their seats of power may be morally bankrupt, but their actions are rational. Only when the zeal of the NRA voting block is matched by the majority of citizens who favor sensible gun control laws will real reform come to these shores. So, pledge to be a single-issue voter in the next election, and vote the NRA shills out.
7
Powerful column. Young people of color all over Nashville are grieving and afraid. What is wrong with our legislators?
5
Right now this instant, there are people mulling over whether the United States should be awarded the hosting of the 2026 World Cup.
I hope they take news articles like this into account when they make the decision. Like, would tourists from Africa be in danger here? And, recall the murder last year of the Indian engineer working for Garmin, shot in that bar in Kansas by an "anti-immigrant" bigot; more and more of these kind of people seem to be coming out of the woodwork, ever since Trump became president...
5
Moving companies need to create an internal business unit that will receive and store guns when they are confiscated. Storage should be secure, free of moisture, and only accessed with a court order or after it is verified that the owner is now able to possess firearms. The fact that this guy's dad had his guns is just plan dumb. So many of these shooters telegraph their intent years in advance, especially those who are violent toward partners and spouses. The government should subsidize these moving companies for the service. Baby steps, people, baby steps.
The second amendment giving citizens the right to bear arms has outlived its usefulness. Let's repeal it.
9
What I find puzzling about the coverage of this event and a similar one that recently occurred in Toronto, was that the U.S. press was quick to label the Canadian tragedy an "act of terror" while the Tennessee massacre, in which the shooter targeted people of color, was not.
10
Please tell me how registering his 4 guns would have saved lives? Really? Is that your answer? The fault lies with Illinois for giving the guns to his father who in turn gave them back to his son. Travis should not have had any guns. Had he tried to buy any in TN the background check would have prohibited the purchase.
6
There are two kinds of anti-gun liberals. The first are those who scream about banning "assault weapons," which is a meaningless term that has no technical definition and can be defined to include nearly any firearm. They are ignorant and unabashedly so. The second are those who are informed, and dislike individualism and conservatism. They associate gun ownership with these traits, and see gun laws as a way of sticking their fingers in the eyes of conservatives.
4
Maybe there's three types. The third recognizes that there is a real problem with gun violence in America. Every decade 100,000 are murdered with a gun is but one example. And these liberals understand something must be done. So when they talk about ban on AR type weapons, and yes these weapons are an identifiable class as opposed to revolvers which are distinct from pistols and all three of which are different from shotguns. While you might be right that some me liberals want to take away your individualism or scorn your conservative values, these folks aren't like most who just want to do something to stop the slaughter.
3
Really? Only 2 kinds of anti-gun liberals?
Try this - a third kind of anti-gun liberal who thinks that it is insane that 30,000 people die from gun violence in this country every single year. A kind of anti-gun liberal who doesn't want to belong to the mass-shooting-of-the-month club any more. A kind of anti-gun liberal who wants to go to the movies without worrying about someone shooting up the place. An anti-gun liberal who would like to send her kids to school without having to think about whether they are going to come home each day. An anti-gun liberal who thinks a lot about all the families all over this country who have lost someone they love from suicide, accident, murder or mass murder and who will never be the same again. An anti-gun liberal who thinks about all the first-responders who probably have PTSD from witnessing the aftermath of mass shootings.
That's the kind of anti-gun liberal I am. Do not accuse me of being ignorant. Do not demean me by saying that I merely want to "stick my finger in the eyes of conservatives." I am not ignorant, nor am I childishly spiteful. I am furiously angry that this country's leaders refuse to make this country safe for all of us.
1
Ban assault weapons. Let God sort it out.
1
Funny that this author was not privy to a story in the NYTs today about carnage in Toronto. There an assailant killed more than twice as many people, but there are no calls to further regulate rental vans. If this mentally disturbed individual could not get his guns back, perhaps he would have driven a vehicle into a crowd, yet the knee jerk reaction is to ban the tool of destruction, only when it is a gun.
In this case, it would be common sense legislation to eliminate the loophole that allowed the shooters father to give him back the guns, however, if the media didn't so often provide a megaphone for those advocating total bans on specific firearms, such common sense legislation might be passed.
4
The purpose of a vehicle is transportation. The SOLE purpose of an AR15 is slaughter of many people in seconds. But you can’t see the difference.
3
This argument is so facile, that it barely deserves a response, and yet I feel compelled to reply: You can kill another person with almost anything -- a power cord, a screwdriver, a frying pan, a tree branch. You cannot ban all the potentially lethal items on the planet. But guns serve no useful purpose other than to kill things. Unless you are an idiot, you would never use a gun to hammer a nail or dig a hole or stir a pot. They are designed and manufactured as killing machines, and you can kill more people more quickly and from farther away than using any of those other items. Period. That is why they should be heavily regulated, if not banned outright. The Second Amendment needs to be further amended.
The premise here is that if the Tennessee General Assembly required registration of firearms, then Reinking's crime wouldn't have happened?
The author seems to place great confidence in an insane killer's willingness to obey that law. Or that it would prevent others intent on committing crimes with firearms from doing so.
Of course, in Canada, another crazed killer murdered even more people with a van. Nothing here could have prevented Reinking from doing that.
5
Right on! Genius!
Think I'll go rob a bank today. I know it's against the law but I'm crazy so I don't care. I don't know why they even have such a law--laws don't stop no bad guys like me.
PS the guy in Canada had to rent a van because he couldn't get an AR-15.
2
Two of my cousins still have PTSD flashbacks from Vietnam from their service over 50 years ago. Their fight instinct tells them they must have their machine guns to defend themselves. The NRA feeds on their paranoia. Now their enemy is gun control advocates. When - if ever - will that war and for them - as well as the millions who have PTSD since they have also seen threats to their lives in Iraq, Afghanistan,...?
2
The fact that someone who had entered the White House was able to get their guns back, is a mistake of those in security. As that would be a federal crime to get into the White House without permission. Also, mental illness, and the targeting people of color, African Americans, is an indication he had an attitude of racism. Everything is sad, the deaths of those at the Waffle House, that this suspect's father gave his sons his guns back, and that this son had serious untreated mental illness. The only good thing was the young man, James Shaw Jr., who wrestled the gun away from the perpetrator, so more killing didn't happen.
5
Thank you for this, Ms. Renkl! The only positive thing about this tragic event is the hero - black and un-armed! Beautiful! I wonder what the NRA has to say about that.
10
On and on it goes, the entire American political establishment is spineless, they don’t care at all, they don’t even try.
5
Really, Margaret? This mentally disturbed person came from Illinois to create the mayhem that was thankfully stopped by Mr. Shaw, a Tennessean who truly fulfilled the Volunteer credo. We need to demand that existing gun laws in each state are effectively enforced first. Then we can look at having them amended or replaced if they truly don't work.
A day later in Toronto, another disturbed person ran down 10 people with a minivan. Unfortunately, killers will kill with guns, knives, motor vehicles, bombs, blunt instruments, chemical weapons and other things unimaginable to the average citizen.
5
So let’s be sure to make it as easy as possible. An AR15 has ONE purpose and that is to kill many people in seconds. A car is a means of transportation. Oh don’t worry! Nothing will be done. V
We need not only to ban certain weapons, but also to confiscate them. That won't be easy and will never be complete but has to start with a voluntary surrender.
10
For months, Mr. Reinking had shown “signs of significant instability,”
That sentence says it all and yet, the man's father gave him back his guns. The father should be charged as an accessory.
41
Almost all states and local governments have been reducing funds for years which help the mentally ill. I think that action is coming home to roost.
27
I agree that Mr. Reinking could likely have benefited from better funding for treatment of mentally ill. However, benefit for the people killed by him would require appropriate jailing of members of Tennessee Assembly and National Rifle Association who encourage his behavior.
2
Common sense gun control legislation and improved mental health services together would be a sane place to start.
2
It's appropriately a term from guns themselves. An action is take (or not taken) like legislators ceding authority over lethal weapons to the NRA and a reaction occurs sometime later with miserable but foreseeable consequences.
It's called blowback.
When the linkage between cause and effect is broken or actively hidden, there remains little chance of preventing the same problem from happening again.
Hence: Columbine, Sandy Hook, Aurora, San Bernadino, Orlando, Parkland and now Nashville.
Having failed again to represent us, our legislators from top to bottom need replacement.
51
Face the facts: these victims are simply a cost of doing burned for the gun industry and our elected representatives have their own calculus (hiding behind the Second Amendment) to justify accepting money from that same industry. What cannot be justified is taking political contributions from the victims.
15
Has the perp's father been arrested for being an accessory of mass murder - yet?
56
As I previously mentioned, the 'perp's father' may be small accessory to the mass murder but the real accessories are the NRA and Tennessee state lawmakers.
1
Being a former Nashville resident I am so proud of this brave young man, James Shaw Jr. who risked his own life to save so many others.
A true Hero !
67
And now we will get to read more of the same excuses from “responsible conservatives” who refuse to accept even the slightest inconvenience to make it harder for people like this young man to get possession of firearms. I used to consider myself a conservative, but that was before being a conservative meant caring about one’s community and its needs, not just about oneself and “my rights”. My thoughts and prayers (and my votes) will be going toward enacting sensible gun control and sending what conservatism has become to the dust bin of history.
61
Brilliant writing. Completely summed it up for me and everyone else who is confused about what happened in TN. I live in Rio de Janeiro and although it is one of the most violent cities, I cannot possibly just go and buy a gun. We must have sensible gun control now in the USA. Better late than never.
45
I have made a promise to my self and my family which is the only step I can take, to act instead of just think and pray. I had a week-long vacation planned for Tennessee, and I am cancelling it. I will not spend a cent in any state that has such lax gun laws. Who wants to visit a place where you are an easy target? And no, I am not a gun owner but I do believe in the Constitution. Period.
9
All of us share this tragedy, every school shooting, every time someone uses a gun they should not have.
And all of us are needed to solve it. We are larger than the NRA, and we need to keep marching, keep voting down their power. I have said it here before, but it will take a generation to fix this problem we have.
I'm a gun owner and hunter, and to me hunting and target shooting are hobbies, not a "gun culture." It's sick and has to end.
53
Margaret - you have the Tazwell county sheriff's department to thank for putting the guns back into Mr. Reinking's hands. Tennessee had nothing to do with that. Why not lash out against the Illinois legislature and their gun laws that permitted this travesty? What is your point in pointing out that those who were slain were people of color? Would it be less of a loss if they were caucasian? Is it a coincidence that the Illinois legislature is predominately Democratic and that Chicago has the highest murder rate in the country using guns that you cut them slack and Tennessee is a red state but yet they're the ones with hideous gun laws? You need to be on the same train as Megan Berry when it pulls out of town.
17
Kurt, in 2016 Nashville had 1,102 violent cimes per 100,000 residents; Chicago had 1,106. The reason gun violence in Chicago is so high despite its strict gun laws is because anyone can walk across the border Chicago shares with Indiana, buy any gun they want with no restrictions, and walk back into Chicago. As this article points out, its the states with no gun restrictions that are responsible for the flood of guns into those states (mostly in the north) that believe in sensible gun laws (guns are the opposite of tax revenue; the north sends far more money south than it gets back). You get to have your own opinions, but not your own facts.
49
# 1 is St. Louis.
Tennessee now has more gun deaths than automobile deaths.
1
Chicago does NOT have the highest murder rate in the country. Among major cities that claim to fame falls to St. Louis, followed by Baltimore, Detroit, Newark, New Orleans... Chicago is 8th. (FBI stats for 2016)
I don't know how Illinois' gun laws "permitted" this travesty since I believe it was illegal for the father to return the guns to the son and I expect he will be indicted. If he is not, then we can start talking about travesties. That the father should not have access to guns because of the son's problems is certainly not a valid argument. So there doesn't seem to be anything wrong legally with Illinois' action in returning the guns to the father. The problem came after, when he let the son get them.
As far as the Illinois legislature being Democratic ... I posted in a comment below, if you look at the top 10 states for gun deaths (murder+suicide+accident), the top 10 states also have the highest gun ownership rates and are dominated politically by the GOP, with 9 of 10 GOP governors, 12 of 20 US Senators, and state legislatures that are GOP majorities. There is an almost perfect correlation between the degree of GOP dominance in a state's politics and its ranking in terms of gun deaths. Maryland is the one exception, being in the top 10 list no doubt due to the awful situation in Baltimore.
This Wikipedia entry has a summary of the FBI stats on murder rates of major cities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate
1
Our American tragedy with guns is not limited to Nashville..........obviously. America, just consider all the other places where, on a daily basis, we use guns to kill human beings and other living things. We all know - but will not admit to ourselves or to each other - that the sole purpose of a gun is to kill. A task which each and every gun continues to do very well and very efficiently. Shame on us, America. Shame on the world of guns and killings.
48
Guns have become the new American religion and its worshipers false idol is the gun. They are true believers in their right to own weapons of war regardless of the widespread violence loosed upon us. Thank you, thank you for this column.
Civil asset forfeiture allows law enforcement officers to take assets from persons suspected of involvement with crime or illegal activity without necessarily charging the owners with wrongdoing!! The law may take your cash and/or property, but apparently guns are too sacrosanct. We (including Congress) are so pistol whipped by the NRA and their cultish members that now guns have rights, not people.
I say Bravo! to the Sandy Hook parents for not forsaking their cause and Bravo! to the Marjory Stoneman Douglas HS students for speaking truth in spite of the hatefulness directed towards them, and Bravo! to you for this column.
73
I agree that much of the new American religion, including most of the 'evangelical' people are individuals who voted Republican but are obviously not Christian.
1
"Here’s what we do know: Because Republicans in the Tennessee General Assembly — owned lock, stock and soul by the National Rifle Association — will not require people here to register their guns, four beautiful young people with their whole lives ahead of them are being mourned"
Ah, so gun registration would have prevented this?
No, of course it wouldn't. But that is what the article says, the only "cure" it mentions that the Tennessee Legislature "won't do." It does not propose any idea that might actually work.
The readers are left to read into this what they will, whether they support doing it or fear others doing it.
15
Laws against murder don't stop people murdering each other.
So we should just not bother and erase all murder laws from our books?
Another argument the NRA likes to make is that we have enough laws. We need to enforce the ones we've got... Okay. Well here's a lovely example, with the guns of the mentally unstable son being returned by the state to the father, who then gave them back to his son. Is the NRA ready to donate to a legal campaign to throw the book at this father for essentially being complicit in the son's murders? Is the NRA supporting increased budgets for law enforcement agencies to add extra resources to track down the 240,000 guns that are stolen from "law abiding" gun owners' homes each year? Is the NRA ready ready to advocate for increased funding for mental health so that people who are mentally unstable can be cured of their problems and become eligible for gun ownership again?
I could go on and on in that vein.
3
The idea that may work is the end of manufacture and sale of these weapons of war to the general public.
2
Mark Thomason,
Absolutely correct. Tennessee has some of the weakest gun laws. It is ironic that at one time Tennessee Governor Bill Haslam when he was mayor of Knoxville was working with former NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg to reduce and halt gun trafficking between Tennessee and New York City. Haslam abandoned it when he decided to run for Governor.
I know nothing at all about guns, but I do know that I often find first reports in the Times less than satisfactory as concerns one important detail, the exact nature of the instrument of death used to kill 17 in Parkland, and here 4.
All too often in my view the first term used, even by "law officers" is rifle, something I picture as a weapon with a long barrel.
So I google and often am led to The Guardian's reporting a sample of which is this 16 FEB 18:
"Americans have to be 21 before they can legally buy alcohol...in most states, they can buy an AR-15 MILITARY STYLE rifle...at age 18.
Federal law has stricter age requirements for buying HANDGUNS than for the military-style rifles ...the weapon of choice for mass shootings. ...(most) Americans must be 21 to buy a handgun from a licensed dealer.
"...the age limit is lower for LONG GUNS, a category that includes...hunting rifles, shotguns, and the ...guns categorized UNDER LAW as “ASSAULT WEAPONS”. After a federal assault weapon ban lapsed in 2004, only seven states and the District of Columbia still have a continuing ban on such firearms."
Why?
Times, no more euphemisms, an ASSAULT WEAPON is a weapon designed to kill humans, not animals, let's at least keep that fact up front.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
36
"You know nothing at all about guns" You also know nothing of human nature. News flash: there will ALWAYS be bad crazy people that will commit acts of violence. You can't legislate against being mentally ill. People rob banks and it's against the law. Yet you and your ilk advocate punishing millions of law abiding citizens.
I envy you your isolation from the ever present guns in the US, Larry. I took my 4 yr old granddaughter to a lovely outdoor dining spot in FL last year, and seated next to us were three men in black T-shirts proclaiming White Supremist slogans. We too our food home.
One addendum to your comment - which unfortunately will make you ill. Raising the age to 21 for purchase of a weapon will do little to change our culture....gun advocate parents buy weapons (sometimes pink for their little princesses) that are designed for children as young as 4-6 yrs old!
@ Marvin - Your position is clear but you clearly in common with me know nothing about a concept as ill defined as "human nature".
Like they say, freedom is not free. Some people pay for it with their lives. Some are our uniformed soldiers and some are ordinary citizens going about their daily lives. They die because we are all free to own as many guns and as much ammunition as we can afford or get our hands on. The victims of gun violence should be honored as much as our fallen soldiers.
17
No, the victims should be honored by making assault weapons illegal. Equating innocent civilians with volunteer soldiers is ludicrous. Sitting in a waffle house did not mean you were signing up to protect the NRA's "freedom" to own killing machines.
1
Are you kidding or being sarcastic? Victims of gun violence are somehow honorably sacrificing their lives so you can own any type of gun and as much ammunition as you want?
This is what is wrong with our country.
1
Your thought process is madness. The 20 6 year olds murdered at Sandy Hook died for your freedom? So you can own guns for what reason? Please enlighten us as to why your need to own a gun outweighs the need for 20 6 year old children to still have their lives. That 40 parents lost their children so you can blab on about some correlation between guns and freedom is absurd. How can the gun give you freedom when it took the lives of 40,000 ppl last year? Until the 2nd amendment is repealed and this country can open it's eyes with a fundamental shift in thinking millions of Americans who wish to have nothing to do with guns will live in fear of those who believe their right to own a gun Trump's our right to life. Yes those of us who know guns are the problem live in fear of people like you. Also know that by having a gun in your house you are more likely to kill yourself or get shot than I am. Make up whatever excuse you want to refute that fact.
1
The FBI estimates that 80% of guns used in crimes are illegally obtained, either through home burglaries or through straw sales.
But all guns start out as "legal" guns. They are manufactured by licensed and legitimate manufacturers and are sold to licensed retailers, who then, for the most part, sell them to people legally allowed to own them, "civilians" so to speak, people like you and me.
That's when things break down ... and people die.
The Bureau of Justice estimates roughly 240,000 guns are stolen from people's homes every year. Also, private "law abiding" citizens sell guns without doing proper background checks, in what are often straw sales. These are the guns being used by the large majority of criminals.
"Law abiding" gun owners, whether through negligence (inadequate gun storage security in their homes), or by intention (straw sales) are arming America's criminals.
Gun enthusiasts like to point out that Switzerland and Finland have very high gun ownership rates. True. They also have highly restrictive rules about who can buy guns and ALL guns sales and gifts, between ANY 2 individuals, even family members, must be recorded and those records be given to the local police within 30 days.
Gun owners who allow their guns to be stolen, and who do not IMMEDIATELY report those thefts to the police need to be considered complicit in any crimes in which those guns are used. We need laws mandating storage of guns in safes, unloaded, with ammunition stored elsewhere.
128
This needs to be repeated again and again and again. Every slice of responsibility and accountability for weapons provides a bigger slice of safety for all.
20
I know that your comments reflect a serious concern, abigail, but still does not justify the American thirst for gun ownership. If there were NO guns, they could not be stolen and would not wind up in the hands of criminals or persons with mental issues.
6
Regarding "thoughts and prayers": after the horrifying events in Toronto yesterday, the mayor of Toronto said: "My thoughts are with those affected by this incident and the front-line responders who are working to help those injured.” An enlightened and appropriate message. Our politicians don't need to exploit these tragedies to drum up support among "religious" voters. They do that enough at other times.
17
While i'm not from the USA I do follow most stories like this as our media likes to pump them out to us daily to try and make us think that our gun laws make us immune to crime.
What I can see from the information I have is that a man who has displayed severe mental illness for 4+ years, to the point that the FBI and the White House would have been made aware, was given guns by his father even though they were confiscated from him.
The failure is not Tennessee gun laws but it is a systemic failure of government to act on an unstable mentally ill person with an extensive history, and a failure of a father who not only doesn't care about the wellbeing of his child but also facilitated the murder of these good people. This article mentions that "Tennessee gun laws could have stopped..." which is a completely false argument because even with his guns confiscated he was given them by his father, even here in Australia with tight regulation a man like that still would have been able to get hold of them.
Given his state of mind, i'd say that had he not had a gun then he likely would just use something he could get, lets say a van (much like the Toronto assailant that killed many more people, armed only with a van).
Prohibition doesn't work, you need to address the source of the problem to attempt to solve it.
9
What nobody on the gun side wants to acknowledge is how important the gun is to the fantasy that drives these events. It's all about the gun.
Take the gun away and the idea of killing people loses a lot of its allure.
2
Under Australian law, there is no right to transfer confiscated guns back to a relative. So, under Australia's tighter gun-control laws, the father would never have been in a position to give the guns back.
Fewer guns = fewer deaths. It is an equation that is true universally across the world. Ignoring it only shows how stupid and callous we have become as a nation, and where our conservative political "values" really lie.
2
I'm genuinely confused by this article. The killer is apparently not a Tennessee resident and in fact law enforcement did take his guns away from him. What's the prescription here? Stricter gun laws in Tennessee?
3
Well, preventing the police from returning confiscated firearms to a relative or close friend would be a good start.
20
Yes, stricter gun laws everywhere. Too many guns. Period.
1
Remove AR15 style weapons from the general population, that’s a good start.
A modest proposal in lieu of “thoughts and prayers “. In addition to the victims, there are families and wounded to take care of. I propose that everyone who owns a firearm be required to carry million dollar liability insurance on each weapon with proof of that insurance required for purchase of ammunition or reloading supplies. Also required when you are at a gun range or purchasing equipment or getting a hunting license. The insurance companies will set the rates and terms. Imagine Allstate giving you a yearly rebate because you used your weapons properly. Somehow the victims must be cared for and this is a way of helping that happen. No guns are taken away, none are registered with the government, the market will slowly reduce their number and availability.
40
The problem, of course, is that insurance doesn't work that way. Your car insurance doesn't pay victis if you are speeding away from a bank robbery and kill someone. Your homeowner's insurance doesn't pay if the body of that cub scout you murdered is found. Insurance doesn't cover crimes you commit.
Marsha Blackburn is running for the Senate in Tennessee. After the Parkland school murders, she was part of the Congressional group who met with Trump to articulate ideas about gun regulations and school safety.
To all those voting in the upcoming Senate election in Tennessee, know that Marsha Blackburn said, the greatest contributor to gun violence - is not the massive amounts of guns in our country or the lack of common sense gun regulations - but violence in media - specifically in movies and video games.
Marsha Blackburn should not be a United States Senator.
Please be sure to vote.
178
Her opponent had a double-digit lead a couple of weeks ago or so. He was a popular governor.
7
I disagree: violence in the media definitely DOES play a part in our public consciousness. Anyone who thinks that human beings don't respond to things that they see with their own eyes is out of sync with what all our advertisers know. People ARE copycats to an extent - they DO get ideas from others,. and sometimes act upon them. Marsha Blackburn is really on to something, and she is correct to focus on the violence that is portrayed in all forms of our media. It may not be the entire reason why we have this violent acting-out in our society, but it certainly is part of it.
3
MicheleP
Then please have Marsha Blackburn explain why the US has more gun deaths per capita than any other developed nation on earth?Other countries have the same violent movies, the same violent video games and the same issues with mental illness.
What they do not have - are the guns - at least the massive amounts that we have here. And those countries that do allow guns have much stricter regulations - and as a result many less gun deaths.
The US has almost 50% of the world’s guns, but we are only 4% of the world’s population.
Blackburn wants to keep her NRA contributions and pander to those of her constituents who believe the NRA is about protecting freedom, when in fact it is about maximizing gun sales.
This does not happen in other countries!
1
"“It is very common for suppliers of firearms to obtain their supply from states with more lenient firearms laws, which are also known as source states,” Kimberly Vesling, an F.B.I. agent, explained."
That is a pretty cogent explanation why -- because of states like Tennessee -- national gun laws are needed. Dems would do well to internalize it and use it when Republicans and the right attack "big cities" and "liberal states" for having high homicide rates despite strict local gun laws.
119
Interestingly, states with the highest rates of gun deaths (including murder, suicide and accident), also have the highest gun ownership rates and vote GOP.
A few weeks back I wrote about it in detail but don't have the numbers in front of me. So I'm going from memory.
The top 10 states include the likes of Alabama, Mississippi, etc. The had 9 of 10 GOP governors, 12 of 20 GOP US senators and 9 of 10 had GOP majorities in their statehouses.
I'm not arguing causation here. But the correlation between GOP majorities and highest gun death rates was perfect.
33
As I understand it, many suicides can be characterized as "impulsive," done in a moment of overwhelming despair. If someone has a highly effective means at hand -- a gun, for example -- it only follows that that impulse can be more readily carried out.
1
Good that you're not arguing causation - very circumspect. I'll argue it - the causation is obvious. Guns = Gun Deaths. Period.
I was about to comment... but then realized I'd be saying exactly the same things as I've posted for the last umpteen gun tragedies,to the point of becoming quite blase about gun killings.
This madness has to stop.
Sheer madness.
51
It can be stopped. Vote, vote, vote.
1
Ironic, too, is the fact that until Travis Reinking trespassed at the White House and demanded to speak to Donald Trump, his gun license was not revoked. So, it’s okay to be mentally ill running around with semi-automatic weapons in the rest of America, but declare yourself a sovereign citizen on the property of NRA supporter-in-chief, and your guns get taken away?
61
This is what the residents of TN voted into office . . . just as in many other states. Our nation has as many deaths by gun as other nations that are at war! Way to go America.
28
The number of people killed in the US by guns is higher than all the US victims of wars in our nation's history.
I have come to the conclusion that people who want automatic weapons are by definition too disturbed unstable antisocial and predictable to have them
182
Guessing you mean semi-automatic. What percentage of owners of semi-automatic firearms murder people?
I am appalled! You should be ashamed. This is a time for mourning not divisive political grandstanding ... uh, excuse me for a moment ... [What's that, Mr. LaPierre? Is there anything you or Senator Corker think I should add? No? My comment's OK with you guys? Good - uh, yeh, I'll repeat that part about thoughts and prayers.]
24
Interesting how liberals blame "red" Tennessee when this maniac bought his guns in "blue" Illinois. It just goes to show that support for gun control is about disarming conservatives liberals find distasteful, and not about reducing crime.
10
Oh, those poor, picked on "conservatives" who want to own as many assault weapons, high capacity magazines, thousands of rounds of ammo because "freedom." Oh how I pity their plight; I think of them instead of the many, many victims of mass shootings.
1
Why don't you read the article more carefully. It explains how illicit dealers in states with tougher gun laws buy their guns in states with loose laws like Tennessee.
The guns were confiscated in “blue” Illinois. The father gave them back to him when the son moved to “red” Tennessee.
Ironically the NRA deep inside likes it when something like this happens because guns sales sore, immediately they start howling that the sales of automatic weapons will be taken away from “law abiding citizens “ what a disgrace.
27
"Soar", "semi-automatic".
Lucky for the patrons, Waffle House has a corporate policy of not allowing patrons to bring guns into their restaurants.
This is all very simple. The GOP believes that the right to own guns is superior to the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It is written in the ultra-secret master Declaration of Independence seen only by the likes of Bannon, Miller, Nunes, Gohmert, Jordan and Meadows. It could never be shared with failing or fake media and especially not the cowardly Dems!
32
Speaking quite bluntly, families of the killed and wounded should join in a lawsuit against the killer’s father for giving him back his guns after:
-an incident in a drugstore parking lot in which the son claimed Taylor Swift was controlling his cellphone
-an incident in which police had to remove him from a private pool in a state of agitation and a woman’s housecoat
-and the incident last year when he tried to force his way into the White House insisting he had to see President Trump
The family told local police their son was mentally ill and were worried he was suicidal. Police confiscated his guns, but gave them to his father telling him to store them in a safe place away from his son.
Instead, he gave them back to the son who then killed 4 innocent civilians because...the kid had 2nd Amendment rights?
#EnoughisEnough. If we had same gun laws, insane people would not get to have guns!
92
A civil suit is the least of this man's problems. He committed and admitted to a serious felony. He's looking at 10 years in federal prison.
10
If the father knew his son had mental problems AND was suicidal AND still gave him back his guns, was not the father effectively aiding and abetting a potential suicide?
It was litigation that finally broke the hold big tobacco held over America. Their argument, 'we just make cigarettes...it's your choice to smoke them' ultimately failed. I think there are enough similarities to force change.
2
How? I hope the victims families sue this guy's dad and ruin him. Then the police in Illinois and bankrupt the City. Then the chief and officers, administrators who did not make it a priority to keep these weapons away from this madman and his clearly irresponsible family personally, and ruin them. Unless somehow, they can bring the victims back.
27
I agree with suing the father but the police should not be responsible because the father,a business owner, was so stupid as to give the son back the guns when he promised the police that he would not do so.
Assault weapons such as the AR-15 (the favorite of mass murderers) belong in the hands of the military, not civilians. The father of this shooter, who returned the guns to his disturbed son after the FBI took them away, needs to go to prison.
38
3000 killed on 9/11. We started a war because of the attack. A war that is still ongoing 17 years later. Over 13,000 gun deaths per year (more if suicides are included) and all we can do is offer “thoughts & prayers?”
28
Tennessee, where I have spent quite a bit of time and money as a tourist, is clearly an ‘’NRA State’’.
We have a list of politicians owned by the NRA, but we need another
one that lists the States they own.
24
We live in a truly very, very sick society. Gun ownership is more important than human lives. How do you survive this lunacy?
20
Bubba don't care. Everything's still MAGA for him and the rest of the Trump base. If all the sane people don't vote against all Republicans, come November, nothing will change.
31
People in the U.S. have willy-nilly put guns into the hands of the common man: the angry, the aggrieved, the immature, the nutty, the impulsive, the drunken, the abuser, the jealous, the delusional, the negligent, the conspiracist, the indignant, the defendant, the hate-monger, and just about any old psychopath next-door. What did you expect would happen?
33
But enough about Jon W.
These mass killings will continue for the foreseeable future. The red states morn and suffer many a tragedy. In the south especially gun violence is rampant, just as discrimination against people of color continues. The paradox in all this, is, that like its neighbors, Tennessee is in the Bible Belt. What baffles me is the average white person In Tennessee votes republican, gets its News from the Christian broadcasting association, and support a man like Donald trump. Eighty percent of evangelicals Christians still support POTUS Trump. What will it take for such people to at least have some insight into their blindnesses? The hypocrisy is reselling killing us!
17
According to neighbors reported in WAPO, Reinking was raised in "a good Christian family". Tazewell county Illinois went 61% for Trump. Trump won 92 of 102 counties in Illinois. Hilly won 10 - the most populous ones. She also only won 16 of 62 counties in New York State. Population may be thinner in Trumpland, but if you drive across the US, you will spend most of your time driving through it.
1
Too many guns. Just way too many guns.
16
G-d I love this country.
Where else in the world could one ever hope to assemble a collection of law enforcement dumb clucks capable of returning guns to the father of a madman?
25
Tazewell county Illinois: 61% for Trump, 32% for Clinton; 96.2% white, 1% black. County Seat: Pekin, so named because in the early 19th century, many thought China was exactly on the opposite side of the Earth from the Midwest (oh the irony!)
2
“Here’s what we do know: Because Republicans in the Tennessee General Assembly — owned lock, stock and soul by the NRA — will not require people here to register their guns, four beautiful young people with their whole lives ahead of them are being mourned by an entire city, and all the thoughts and prayers in the world will not bring them back to us.”
Bears repeating. 100% correct!
The young unarmed Black man (sorry don’t have his name right here) is a hero, he saved lives. The NRA shills are the opposite. Shame on them.
23
What an uniformed piece. The boy was deranged. Period.
1
And how many other deranged people are there? And they all have access to a military assault rifle. That is what is uninformed.
29
The piece is very uninformed and misguided.
The father gave the kid guns who has exhibited SEVERE mental illness since 2014... 4 years... He has caused disturbances at the White House of all places and yet still no one thought he needed help?
Even if you had "registered all the guns" and "banned all the guns" he still could have been given them by his father because his father obviously doesn't care about his wellbeing if he allowed his mentally ill son continue without adequate treatment.
Mental health is the issue in your country, not guns.
5
And having used the issue you cite of mental health as their diversion from the control of firearm weapons for how long, the GOP has done exactly what to expand and support the necessary mental health services?
7
Amen!
4
Queue GOP talking points....
Thoughts and prayers...
Too soon to talk...
Scourge of mental illness...
2nd amendment rights...
More thoughts and prayers...
The right to defend oneself...
Thoughts and prayers...
Please hold, I have the NRA on the other line...
These are the tactics that feed the GOP coffers at the expense of American lives. They should be ashamed of themselves.
19
Vote. Vote. Vote.
18
here we go again with "angry white male..." would she call the terrorist in
Toronto today an angry muslim or the
the man who is beating up Jews in
Borough Park an angry black man?
it is precisely this sort of intemperate
language which is creating disciples
for groups like Sovereign Nation.
blaming the white male for everything
evil in the universe will only drive more
of us into the arms of the Trump people
or even worse than them.
1
...and blaming anguished, well-informed opinion pieces like this one for “driving more of you into the arms of Trump people or even worse” has become intolerable, Frank. Time for y’all to take responsibility for your appalling political choices instead of blaming your dreaded “Left” for them.
1
It has been said that all you need to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun,
Wrong.
All you need to stop a bad guy with a gun is a black man with guts.
24
In other words a good guy with out a gun.
1
Column is right on
3
Tennessee Republicans don't care about the safety of the people of Tennessee. The Republican Party doesn't care about the safety of the people of the United States of America.
28
Heck they don't care if Russians interfere with the election or if there is a vulgar bigoted narcissist living in the White House.
22
Hey, but what an opportunity to make a buck? It's the story of this presidency.
One almost feels that people cannot generally be trusted with guns.
5
Shame on the Tennessee General Assembly owned "lock, stock, and soul" by the NRA.
Too, how can the alleged shooter's father justify returning the guns taken from his son through due process?
Tennessee's willful abdication of enacting and enforcing reasonable and responsible gun legislation is another example and reason for national gun laws which would not allow people like the alleged shooter to legally possess a firearm in one state if another state lawfully took them away.
The weakness and irresponsibility of lawmakers in one state should not jeopardize the citizens of that state and all other citizens of the United States.
5
lol. you actually think these advertisements will erode gun rights?
What tells us how far away we are from reasonable gun control is that a scary person is intercepted at the White House by the Secret Service, we take away his stockpile of guns, including an assault rifle, but then we feel we have to GIVE THE GUNS BACK TO HIM! This whole thing is tragic enough as it is, but what if instead of shooting up the Waffle House he had instead gone back and shot up the WHITE HOUSE? (Please excuse the all-caps screaming, but all of this is just making me a bit crazy.)
12
No. They were given back to his father, who illegally gave them back to him, no different than if his father acted as a straw purchaser.
1
America doesn’t have a gun problem. America has an integrity problem. And it’s rooted in those elected officials who sell out to the NRA.
9
The ONLY way to stop the wrong people from getting guns is by stopping the right people too.
That’s how gun control works EVERYWHERE else in the first world. They are fine with their system, yours offers up a steady and predictable stream of avoidable tragedies. You should know better, but you CHOOSE not to.
8
The ONLY way to stop the wrong people from getting guns is by stopping the right people too"...... I disagree. Anybody who thinks they need a military assault rifle is a wrong person by their own self definition.
9
At least you're admitting that your goal is to confiscate and ban all privately owned firearms. Why won't more liberals be honest about their intentions?
Let's hope none of the poor guns were harmed.
3
The writer may be interested to know that there are already ample laws on the books, including Tennessee, that prohibit "maniacs" from owning firearms. Clearly the writer has an agenda (as do many commenting here) to prevent law abiding people from exercising their natural right to self defense that is protected by the 2nd amendment.
3
WE NEED TO BOYCOTT ALL POLITICIANS WHO RECEIVE EVEN A DIME FROM THE NRA.
We also need to hold to public opprobrium ALL members of the NRA, including our closest relatives, until it becomes too toxic to make money selling guns.
It is time for murder and heartbreak to stop.
17
If you live in America, like me, we all have something in common.
We a fish swimming in a sea of firearms.
They are here and there, everywhere.
They may be at the mall as you walk with your kids.
They may be in the restaurant where you are celebrating a birthday.
They may have just walked in at your place of work…
or the movie theater…
or the park.
Any public place… or on the road.
You and I are swimming in waters that are full of guns. And no one knows when a strange, troubled person will pull one out.
We are living in a hellish lottery.
Every day, many get picked in the lottery.
Many are shot dead.
There are many guns.
In the hands of good people who are rightfully be allowed to own them.
But, also, in the hands of people who shouldn't even be allowed to walk a dog.
Getting a gun should require just a wee bit more effort and checking and training then it does today.
We know things we can do, I won't repeat.
And, we know that even conservative Justice Scalia in the Heller case (search it) said that firearms - the type and use etc - can absolutely be regulated.
Liberals, the 2nd ammendment exists.
This liberal has liberal friends who are responsible gun owners.
Conservatives, give a little.
No one is coming for your guns.
Just stop it, OK?
That's just an excuse for inaction.
And, almost 90% of you want strict background checks!
We WILL get this right.
Till then, remember.
Every day, you and your precious family are in the lottery.
275
Mr. King, you have listed perfectly the threats we all live with, in a precise and well-documented way. The lottery notion that sticks in the brain, with a terrifying feeling, is compelling. Brilliant, your remarks should be printed in every publication and internet site. Truth and clarity. Please run for office. We need you.
15
To Paul King: What you failed to mention was that we had a ban on assault rifles, but it expired under the GW Bush administration. (And no one came for your guns.) We can have it again if we choose to elect the right people that care for us, not the NRA.
Thank you for your brilliant response to the article.
16
Please stop with the "no one is coming for your guns" line. Numerous prominent Democrats, including Feinstein, Schumer, Hillary and Obama have outright stated that their goal is an Australia style ban and confiscation. Further, these are numerous comments IN THIS ARTICLE calling to ban all semi-automatics (which is a de facto ban on all firearms, as nearly every gun is a semi-automatic).
1
Salute to Mr. James Shaw Jr. for bravely interfering in the massacre and wrestling the gun from the murderer.
But, one may ask, would the four young people had been dead if some of the restaurant guests were armed and well trained in the use of fire arms for self-defense and the defense of others?
1
The thing is nothing stopped those customers from having guns. They simply chose not to walk around carrying one, as I suspect many people choose to do. What should be done, make it a law that every sane adult MUST carry a gun for self defense?
2
@ BH Maryland
I am far from advocating such a law, but it comes to mind that "Gold helps those, who help themselves". Open-carry of firearms is a good, but not the only, deterrent against crime.
Arm the Waffle House waitresses. Arm the teachers and the students over 15. Arm the professors. Arm the pastors. Arm the priests. Arm the ushers at the theaters. Arm the bartenders. Arm the meter maids and the barmaids. Arm the band members at all concerts. Arm everyone everywhere.
Aux armes, citoyens! Formez vos battalions!
1
I don't see where Tennessee's permissive gun laws had anything to do with this tragedy. A sheriff in Illinois which has strict gun laws returned the confiscated guns to the suspect's father who then gave the guns to his son. The suspect could have gone anywhere with his guns or just stayed in Illinois, where he could have shot up people the same as he did in Tennessee. It may be a "go to" state for guns but the suspect already had them before he crossed state lines, or are we to believe that, if only state laws were stricter in Tennessee, he would have checked them at the border?
5
"There’s something tragically, fundamentally American, too, about an angry young white man with a firearm killing a bunch of strangers who have done him no harm."
The most frequently quoted statistics for this, the one which started the "white man" designation for shooters, was Mother Jones' demographic breakdown of 97 mass shooters from 1982 to 2018. The graph shows the "overwhelming" results (that adjective comes from the NYTimes coverage of that article).
There's one problem: 56 whites out of 97 (or, if you like, 98 with the Waffle House included), isn't either overwhelming or even evenly represented. The proportion of non-Hispanic whites in the U.S. is at least 61%.
But thanks for the racism. Apparently, it's quite okay to do things like that as long as the target population is male and white.
"Blame Mr. Reinking’s father. " Yes. Not only blame him though. The families of the dead should SUE him into the next universe for negligence.
18
Holding a weapon frees gun nuts, shooters, traders, legislators alike, from thinking responsibly to a purpose and negotiating reasonable tours as human beings with fellow humans. That freedom, written in no constitution, is not plain by the end of April 2018 and is always demanded by the deficient. It is not insanity. They know they act wrongly, why they bear and legislate arms and use them for their only purpose. Accordingly, it is philosophical deviance encouraged by their cadre of swamp-creatures. It will not cure itself. The issue is will the responsible act. So far, no, and Tennessee is open for deviant business.
2
So the murderer's guns had been taken away but an assault weapon was returned to his father who gave it back to him. The father and the police who returned the weapon should be prosecuted as conspirators. And our Republican Congress and Republican state legislatures who are owned by the N.R.A. are complicit as well. There is absolutely no reason for assault weapons to be available to anyone but law enforcement. The Second Amendment doesn't guarantee anyone the "right" to possess an assault weapon any more than it guarantees an individual's "right" to own a bazooka or a tank. Citizens need to take back the country from the bloody death grip of the N.R.A. and its enablers. November 2018 would be a good time to begin to end the madness and the murder.
11
This is NOT at all American.
And yet, in some ways it might be, but if I believe this, it is for different, and I feel, deeper reasoning.
Look at the history of how America evolved. Remember hearing about Cowboys and Indians all growing up? As atrocious as this was, this happened. We brought guns here hundreds of years ago. The reality of getting rid of all of our guns is slim. Frankly, if we banned all guns, I would feel less safe than I already do. For many reasons.
Some people collect guns, some use them for sport (competition) and others keep them as a means to protect themselves if needed. And yes, criminals kill with them.
I strongly agree that we need stricter gun laws.
It's not merely some "excuse" that some people fear (as do I) that if we take ALL guns away, then only the criminals will be left with them.
Travis Reiking had all of taken his guns taken away from him for good reason. Authorities were dealing with him it sounds like.
However, his Father gave them back to him. This is crazy sounding to me. And this is tragic. I anxiously wait to know why. He was moving to a different state from what I understand, but he was still unstable!
Instead of completely polarizing certain political sides, perhaps it would be more beneficial to figure out how to come up with the solution that we ultimately both want. And know that there may be more of us out there than you think.
1
There is blame to go around for these constant tragedies, and the NRA is the best place to start.
Wayne LaPierre is a mystery to me. He's the voice of the NRA; and even though most of their members favor at least modest gun control (more than we have now), he bellows that ANY control is the beginning of government subjugation of the citizenry.
Could a revolt begun by Florida high school students--some of whom have received death threats for their effort--succeed when so many of us have failed over so many decades?
I pray for the day.
9
"There’s something tragically, fundamentally American, too, about an angry young white man with a firearm killing a bunch of strangers who have done him no harm."
Uh yeah can't argue with that, but it tragic no matter who is doing the shooting. There are plenty of stories out there of random shootings out there committed by non whites. Ms. Renki is expressing an opinion she doesn't really hold. Probably to get reactions and attention (which admittedly I am doing here). There is nothing (as of yet) to indicate the shooting was racially motivated nor is there any info on the racial makeup of the Waffle House patrons.
The four people killed were 3 black persons and one Latino.
Some day the 2nd Amendment will pass into history. A new amendment will take its' place. It will not happen right away. The United States of 2018 has become a nation people who grew up during the Depression and WWII find hard to recognize. Hate and intolerance has become commonplace. Evangelical Christians have made religion so farcical that it can not even be satirized any longer. It is already a satire. Is there any nation on Earth so anti-science as the United States? We are a nation of sheep. Like Germany of 1930. Trust in the "Leader".
7
Correct me if I am wrong but didn’t the Germans begin by collecting all the guns? We do need a common sense debate about firearms but that can’t happen while both sides take obstinate positions to play to their constituencies rather than searching for solutions. If the gun laws we have now worked the guns would never make it to NYC. Years ago there was a bumper sticker that said “if guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns.” The guns are there already and aren’t going to disappear. We have to figure out how to address the underlying issues to this violence.
1
The GOP has had a "for sale" sign up since Reagan.
If you want to put an end Republican fealty to the NRA, their are only two ways to do it. Pay them more then the NRA does, or vote them out of office.
If Sandy Hook proved anything, it's that the modern GOP is beyond any emotional, intellectual or moral appeal. They are only interested in one thing - money.
So, either pay up, or vote them out, because they have no morality to appeal to.
14
"There’s something tragically, fundamentally American, too, about an angry young white man with a firearm killing a bunch of strangers who have done him no harm." This sentence struck me as it is hardly uncommon in stories covering these senseless murders. But where is the similar note of the race of the man who stabbed Anthony Mele while Mr. Mele's child sat on his lap? If the goal is to suggest that "angry white men" are murderous threats, then it seems that Ms. Renkl and others must also consider and mention the race of all other murderers and victims.
How come we go into a full inspection engine mode after one aircraft death in nine years yet we put up with multiple gunshot deaths with no clear response. This is SICK. What have we become
17
While I deeply appreciate the writer's passion this paragraph has no place on a page of the NYTimes: "We don’t need to press play on the gun lobby’s soundtrack to predict the response from politicians and right-wing media to this tragedy. Thoughts and prayers. This is no time for politics. Thoughts and prayers. We don’t have a gun problem; we have a mental-illness problem. Thoughts and prayers. Parents today can’t control their kids. More thoughts and more prayers, none of which have done anything to stop the violence. You would think the entire Republican Party would be mired in a collective crisis of faith by now."
The rest of the piece put forth the facts of the event and contiguous circumstances related to Tennessee gun laws that made the outcome more likely. However, the above paragraph come close to neutralizing the writer's central points through guilt by associate before anyone else has spoken publicly.
During the next election, please ask your candidates where they stand on gun regulations. Please vote for those who will enact legislation to protect you, and not those who want to buy guns for any reason, including "killing your loved ones". Is that so difficult to do in a democracy?
5
There's going to come a day of reckoning and because of the refusal from gun owners to compromise the response is going to be much harsher and more restrictive than it needs to be. I have no empathy for gun owners because they've chosen not to be a part of the solution to this very American problem. I'm tired of reading about mass shootings because our politicians are too afraid of the NRA to protect us from those who have no business owning a gun.
18
We will eventually have more regulations on firearms. Military grade weaponry will be the first. Freedom to own guns cannot outweigh the potential of harm or death to civilians. We have the strongest military in the world, but we allow 18,000 civilian homicides and accidental shootings by gun shots in the USA every year. Sooner or later, as a country,we have to become rational citizens.
14
The electorate must demand real and significant gun law reform and must insist that any person running for political office on any level must stand first and foremost upon that platform. The media has a role to play in keeping the public focused on that goal and in moving public opinion toward that direction. The electorate must not be distracted by the machinations of the powerful influences who feel otherwise. This is the only way for us to effect change and I think if we accomplish this achievable goal many other progressive issues will follow.
17
So the father's argument is that he only had to keep the guns away from son as long as the son lived in Illinois? How many times have prosecutors charged non-shooting participants with homicide? It's almost routine in some jurisdictions. The father has no defense, and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent.
123
Yes, the nut doesn't fall too far from the tree.
"An American Tragedy in Nashville"....You can't call it a tragedy when you know it is going to happen. The deaths belong on the heads of Congressional Republicans who refuse to ban military assault rifles. It is just a matter of time before another crazy or terrorist uses the mass slaughter weapon of choice.
18
Millions drive cars but there is no "Constitutional Right " to own and drive a car. It's an obligation. No one is saying that guns should be banned, but the Founders voted against a Constitutional right to use firearms in self defense or hunting and these are the standards we should observe today.
6
This is what happens in a country where gun ownership is a right, not a privilege. Like so many other tragedies that preceded this one, the cause of this carnage is simply a consequence of the low threshold for gun ownership here. And yes gun advocates: the size of the magazine does matter. The only thing that kept this from being worse was the size of the gun magazine and the bravery of one young man.
28
I am tired of hearing about Second Amendment rights, especially those arguments that omit the important preface about a "well regulated militia" being essential to a newborn nation. If every gun owner today had to belong to a militia (read "National Guard" or "Army Reserves" or the equivalent) and spend one weekend a month marching and drilling with firearms and a month every year engaging in full-scale maneuvers, I might have less of an argument against unregulated gun ownership.
But there is still another issue: this country's first public declaration of its right to exist as a free and independent nation was drafted in 1776, while we were engaged in what seemed like an unwinnable war to secure that status. In that Declaration of Independence, only three "unalienable" rights of individuals were enumerated: life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. It was 12 years later, in 1788, that the United States Constitution was ratified; and the Second Amendment wasn't enacted until 1791. So in order of importance, my right to live my life without being shot supersedes your right to own a gun, any gun, much less a military-style weapon designed solely to slaughter as many people as possible as quickly as possible. The Revolutionary War is over, folks. We won. It's time to become the country we thought we were.
156
Great comment and great important historical information.
1
As a fan of prayer, I am deeply saddened at the cheapening of the “thoughts and prayers” language of the NRA apologists. Gun violence is sickening and inexcusable, and prayer can be one way to lead people of faith to take action to stop it.
Prayer is action oriented. Done right, prayer helps guide people toward moral and righteous behavior. Prayer isn’t passive. It isn’t fruitless.
I am horrified that the legislators in TN use the cynical “thoughts and prayers “ language to justify political inaction and cowardice. Not only are these people enabling violence and death, they are turning their backs on a crucial tool of faith.
20
That’s just the problem isn’t it? Prayer never seems to be done right. Judging by all the Americans shot dead in churches.
2
Beautifully written. Thank you, Ms. Renkl, for your eloquence and astute call to action. Our country's approach to its gun laws is disgraceful. The 'right' to own one should never come at the price of another's life. Proper registration, should include universal background checks, including mental health histories.
Our politicians are easily bought and paid for. They have blood on their hands. Its time the rest of us do what we can to vote them out.
41
New York has among the restrictive gun laws of any state. But, Nashville has a lower gun homicide rate than Buffalo.
People on both sides of the gun issue distort statistics for their benefit. Nashville has a reasonably low gun death rate. Memphis has a high gun death rate. Because this incident occurred in Nashville, it's easy to play with statistics. If it had happened in Memphis, it would look like the Tennessee laws were decisive.
Don't let those with their own agendas distort the truth. There are gun deaths of all sorts. There are gun laws of all sorts. Both the NRA and gun control advocates play with statistics in a deceptive way. This is an issue where there are so many variables, you should not be deceived by simplistic correlations.
7
No, we should not be deceived by "simplistic correlations." Nor should we ignore that guns are killing more people - whatever state - in the United States than ever before. An unused gun is not killing people. A USED gun IS killing people. It's still the gun doing the killing, which makes guns the problem. I don't care about the statistics, only that more people are losing their lives in the past 18 years by guns than I can ever recall in my lifetime, which spans nearly 70 years. Outside of war, I mean. But this feels very much like a war. A specific one. Vietnam, where a soldier never knew who among the Vietnamese was a friend and who was the enemy. And US soil is beginning to look a great deal like the war in Vietnam.
18
Gosh, from reading your comments you might think that people living in the U.S. never cross state lines.
7
The only statistic that matters to me here are the number of people who are killed by guns, the families torn apart by the loss of a loved one to gun violence.
Less guns, especially A-15 type guns, equals less of people killed, fewer children growing up without a parent, fewer parents crying for a dead child, fewer husbands or wives left alone.
People will continue to die, but there will be less - only number that matters.
1
I grew up in a household with guns. My father was a Life Member of the NRA. But in those days, it was far more about gun safety than gun rights. I live in a state where most people I know own guns...in our state's largest city, not in the countryside.
It's something one cannot have a rational conversation about. Either people truly believe they "need" their guns for protection or they don't. Just read the article in yesterday's NYTImes by someone who feels he needs his guns for protection and actually has a Permit to Carry and always does so. For some people, it's as much a part of their entire being as breathing.
I do not know how many more innocent people must die before any minds will be changed. But I wish they would be. No one needs a semi-automatic rifle for anything unless one is in the military.
28
So then can I infer that you support making police tactical teams give up their semi-automatic rifles too? After all, if we don't "need" them, they don't either.
Minds won’t be changed-laws must. If you incarcerate enough gun lovers; they’ll eventually get it.
1
It is really about common sense regulations more than those who think they need guns for protection and those who don't. In a CA city where I used to live there was a proposition but on the ballot stating, among other things that a gun theft must be reported within 48 hours to police. It passed by a two thirds majority. The NRA sued the city but lost. If you own a gun you need to be responsible. Gun owners can keep their guns in that city but have to report when they are stolen. Why does the NRA want to make the job of the police more difficult?
This is an excellent op-ed. While Margaret’s position on guns generally is evident, it sticks pretty much to facts, including comparisons between TN laws and those of other states, leaving conclusions to Tennesseans and others. More op-eds like these that many read are what’s necessary to get enough people in America to put aside their fears of having rights diluted to entertain rational gun controls.
10
I beg to differ, some states do not have this happen. Granted more than 10 years ago a guy killed his office mates here in Massachusetts, but there has not been a mass shooting since. It does not happen in Canada in numbers anything like here. I was in the Maritimes when a nutcase killed 3 Mounties and was appalled at my reaction: as an American it did not sound like a big deal on first learning about it. It was a very big deal, and very rarely happens up there.
17
An American Tragedy. I am all for gun regulation and gun control but don't use the headline to castigate the state of Tennessee.
3
Had the shooter been a Mexican or Muslim and the victims white, Trump would have been tweeting about terrorism, walls, and travel bans, before the waffles got cold and the victim's families notified.
Had the hero who stopped the killer been a good (white) man with a gun, he'd be sitting at the same table as Trump and Macron.
Republicans in the Oval Office, Congress, or a State's General Assembly will use mass shootings when it helps them demonize a group. But when the shooter is an angry white man (the base) an NRA approved "Thoughts and Prayers" press release is about the best you can hope for.
354
You are absolutely correct in every point you make. But we must join the student protests and keep the movement that is underway going all the way until November and after. We may be at a tipping point and most not give up. After Sandy Hook I was convinced there is no hope but now I feel the young will lead the way out of these tragedies.
23
Modern liberal society is entirely to blame for this shooting. That a person with paranoid delusions and signs of schizophrenia who had committed criminal acts with a firearm in the past was not institutionalized is outrageous. As long as liberals are not willing to lock up the insane, these types of violent acts will continue. You're not taking away the gun rights of hundreds of millions of Americans because you refuse to do anything about the tiny percentage of the population that is crazy.
And no, before you make the stupid and tired argument that it was Reagan who released the crazies, it was actually a result of liberal Supreme Court rulings (in cases brought by the ACLU).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Connor_v._Donaldson
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_v._Indiana
5
The rest of the first world is a lot more liberal than the USA, but they don’t have near war zone levels of gun carnage, because they don’t recognize any dubious right to own lethal weaponry.
How many Americans have been shot dead by the non-gun owning majority? Nuff said.
I beg to differ. Ronald Reagan shut down the mental institutions in California in the 1970's to save taxpayer money and set of a movement across the country that decimated mental health and other public services. Dems would love to fund adequate mental healthcare, but Republican legislatures would never believe that taxpayers should pay to help others. After all, as Mr. Trump is teaching us daily, we Americans are meant to only help ourselves.
So why do you need assault rifles?
1
Another taker red state we need like a hole in the head.
23
As a relative of a loved one who was murdered in a Nashville neighborhood last summer--by a man who should not have been permitted to carry a gun--I understand something about Tennessee's lax gun laws. It isn't only the victim whose life is ruined. She left two young children.
All across America, we see this terrible scene played out over and over. Guns kill. People use guns to kill other people. It doesn't matter whether the gun users are mentally ill or not. The killing object is the gun.
Let us vow to do something once and for all about the evil of guns in America. The Parkland survivors are pointing the way. When the "Columbine/Parkland generation" is all of voting age, a reckoning will come for the NRA, and it will be a day of celebration. No thoughts. No prayers. Just celebration.
579
This should be called a terrorist attack, not just a tragedy!
23
If only the gun nuts pushing for unfettered access to guns and assault weapons had the courage and decency that James Shaw has in his pinky finger.... They wouldn't have to live life like scared grown children, and they would be offering real support to their fellow citizens.
For those that haven't noticed, James is using the attention he's gotten to start a fundraiser for the victims. This man is a hero, and a gentleman, and he suffers not in the least from the vainglory that the NRA would have its members believe is what they should chase to try to be "good guys with guns".
133
The problem is not guns. The problem is evil people.
Why are people talking Nashville, not Toronto?
Taking the guns away is useless unless you take the cars and vans away too.
Nothing will change until the head in the sand anti-gun people wake up and realize the problem is not funs, but evil or insane people.
Its getting harder and harder to not believe that the New York Times opinion people and their loyal echo commentiariat is not simply deluded.
5
People are talking about Toronto. And you wouldn't complain if cities started putting up more barriers to prevent something like that happening again. Why are you so opposed to basic measures to limit a clearly insane person from owning multiple weapons of war?
3
Evil people with killer physic powers? No guns needed, I have not heard that one.
2
Must say that I was most impressed by the outpouring of resources on behalf of this tortured individual following his prior incidents - including the White House barrier violation - "Take two aspirin and give the guns to his dad."
2
Why does the fact that the killer was white matter?
Why did you neglect to mention that the hero was black?
How do YOU know The alleged killer
was angry?
How about SICK, disturbed, psychiatrically ill, on hallucinogenic drugs?
An opinion is one thing, a huge presumption is another.
Making such Ridiculous assumptions is Unnecessary and Attaching such “political spin” On this tragedy actually takes Away from the points you’re trying to make
Such a wasted opportunity
CK
7
It is about a set of behavioral patterns and biases for leniency chock full excuses that tend to be the domain of "angry, troubled, privileged, young white men". What would be a sensible punishment for the shooter's father Chip?
2
The fact that he was white and all those murdered were black is significant and suggests a racist motivation. One can easily be racist and mentally ill at the same time.
3
Angry, not angry, mentally ill, fit as a fiddle, white or not--still seems like this man should not have had a gun.
Bottom line: he shouldn't have had a gun.
2
Wayne LaPierre or Benedict Arnold, who was a better American? Arnold fought for his country before he betrayed it. That's about it.
12
Typical for Confederate States of America and other Red states. They love their guns.
No other mammal is so depraved and dangerous.
18
All the thoughts and prayers in the world mean nothing. All the excuses of these legislators (who also refuse to fund behavioral health programs) mean nothing. The NRA owns the TN legislature just as it owns the state house in FL and so many other states. Expect that the TN legislature's next suggestion will follow FL's lead and be that every Waffle House must have at least one waiter or cook (well-trained, of course) carrying a concealed weapon on staff at all hours to stop the next "bad guy with a gun." Mr Tump will help out by paying these individuals "a small bonus."
At all governmental levels the GOP is owned by the NRA. The only way to put any dent at all into this upward spiral of mass killings is to vote out the NRA's apologists and enablers - along with their thoughts and prayers.
36
According to this report from the National Institute of Health - Deinstitutionalization and the rise of violence.
Fuller Torrey E1.
Author information
Abstract
The deinstitutionalization of individuals with serious mental illness was driven by 4 factors: public revelations regarding the state of public mental hospitals, the introduction of antipsychotic medications, the introduction of federal programs to fund patients who had been discharged, and civil libertarian lawyers. The result is approximately 3.2 million individuals with untreated serious mental illness living in the community. Beginning in the 1970s in the United States, there began to be reported increasing incidents of violent behavior, including homicides, committed by these untreated individuals. Such incidents became more numerous in the 1980s and 1990s, and have further increased since the turn of the century. Existing studies suggest that individuals with untreated severe mental illness are responsible for at least 10% of all homicides and approximately half of all mass killings. Studies have also shown that when these individuals are treated, the incidence of violent behavior decreases significantly. Examples of treatment mechanisms that have proven effective include assisted outpatient treatment (AOT), conditional release, and mental health courts.
4
Let's not forget to also lay the blame on the US Supreme Court, which in 2007 found a Constitutional right to own guns that had never before existed. Chief Justice Warren Burger called the NRA's claim of 2nd Amendment gun rights to be one of "greatest pieces of fraud, and I repeat fraud," ever perpetrated on the Anerican people.
168
It takes a special level of intellectual dishonesty to argue that the 2nd Amendment was intended to protect a right to carry a gun in the military when your military commander wanted you to. What would be the point of enshrining such a useless "right" into the Constitution? No. The 2nd Amendment was intended to protect an individual right. The Federalist Papers make that abundantly clear.
And that "well armed militia" part . . . is that surplusage? That phrase, unlike the federalist papers, actually IS part of the 2nd amendment. How conveniently we pick and choose.
This has nothing to do, of course, with Nashville or Tennessee. It has to do with the failure of American culture to intervene aggressively with the mentally ill. Folks who are delusional and dangerous have for far too long been allowed to live freely. It's time to institutionalize them again until they can live peacefully in a civilized society.
5
Nope it's the AK-15.
2
Blame the father. Blame the culture of guns. Blame the NRA. Blame the Republican Party. Blame Democrats whose own political hides are worth more to them than the lives of the human beings they ostensibly serve. Blame President Trump, who is "nice" to the NRA because it is "nice" to him.
Just, please, no more thoughts and prayers. These seem incapable of stopping the bloody carnage. Only American voters can do that.
20
Most Americans are for more gun regulations, just like most Americans favor, "Medicare for all," healthcare. We don't live in a democracy, in any sense of the word. Republicans, for the most part, in rural states, are to blame, where their gun advocacy, actually helps them win.
102
Many people are in favor of "more gun regulations" in the abstract. When you ask them about individual proposals and describe how they would actually work and how (in)effective they would be, they aren't.
3
When you ask people about specific regulations, they are generally in agreement. You are incorrect.
2
But we know broadly that states with strict gun laws have fewer gun deaths, including murders, suicides and accidents. It doesn’t work at the level of individual cities (eg: Chicago), but it does work in New York & New England (laws in NH and ME are relatively looser, but these are largely rural states with more hunting rifles and fewer handguns).
10
As a teacher, I was told by a man that I should be afraid of Arab terrorists who might break into my school and do his worst. I told him I fear the man profiled in this column, the angry young white man with a gun nobody should own. The NRA creates fear in the hearts of millions through its corruption of our politicians, who forget who they are there to serve. Is the soul of this country as sullied as it appears, or will there be a new birth of freedom to follow the most corrupt administration in our nation’s short history.
330
Actually it looks like the FBI and the deputies dropped the ball again....it's a tired old story now.
11
And the left's solution is always to disarm law abiding people. Why is that?
Guess what: The DEAD people he murdered would be still be dead, mental illness or NOT. It's about the GUNS. No one except the Military and Police Swat Teams should be able to possess these killing machines, let alone use them. And by use, I mean for the purpose intended: To KILL. As for those sending thoughts and prayers : Save your breath, Hypocrites. Hold out your blood soaked hands, and await your next "Campaign Donation" from the NRA. The NRA/GOP Party, Murder Made Easier, and FREQUENT.
God Bless America.
203
If the reports are accurate, the law enforcement community did the right things. Why in heavens name, given the shooter's history (mental as well as run ins with the law) did the father give the guns back to his son? After agreeing not to do so, it seems he is complicit in the tragedy that followed. The son will get spend most of his life incarcerated in a mental facility. Shouldn't the father be held responsible for contributing to his sons rampage???
163
Adam Lanza's mother died by her son's hand, so we couldn't punish her, but this guy's father is alive and we know what he did because he's already admitted it. Let's see how this plays out. At the very least, there will be civil suits.
61
Thank you Margaret! My sentiments exactly.
14
Perhaps what is needed as a range of current, as well as needed, laws and regulations are mantraed and juggled to protect and empower a selected WE and to control, disempower and punish a selected THEM is a new law which adjudicates: Crimes against Well Being. Harmful words and deeds- notwithstanding the childhood "mantra" about
"sticks and stones...-" which can, and do, effect types, levels and qualities of well being of another human being, whoever and whatever they are, aren't, and may never become, will be isolated from fellow BEINGS. BE they family. Friends. Neighbors, Co workers. Fellow students.
Inequitable sharing of human and nonhuman resources, so necessary for menschlich development, civil inter-relationships, mutual trust, respect and caring, will not be acceptable.You may ask:"What's to be done with those fellow beings who do accept Crimes against Well Being?" A paradox! A good deal of the time the voiced-words and the done-deeds of these chronic "harmers" and "violators"continue to be accepted. Even normed. Traditionalized. Even become "principles of faith," for faithless-sacrament-sinners. Where has it gotten US? Any of US!
In much of the U.S. someone displaying the symptoms of mental illness illustrated above would face no obstacle to buy an assault-type weapon. This is not acceptable, and we see the tragic results over and over again.
1
Most Americans are too stupid to get it. Most Americans value their guns more than they value the lives of their own children.
201
Your comment really puts things in perspective. Although I think the majority of Americans, including many gun owners, favor the banning of assault rifles. It’s the spineless, sycophantic GOP that refuses to even acknowledge the problem, lest they irritate their “owners” at the NRA.
Assault rifles need to be banned. There is nothing in the second amendment that says otherwise.
23
I would not say MOST Americans. but MANY Americans are stupid and act as if they do not value the lives of their own children. 40% is a minority but it is way too many millions acting as if they do not give a dime about their children's lives.
It is not just guns, it is also pollution from burning coal that harms children. SO2 pollution causes acid rain but also acid breathing, together with ozone from NOx, causes childhood asthma. Mercury causes retardation and Volatile Organic Compounds (VOC) cause cancer. Voting for politicians who support dirty polluting sources of energy is acting as if one does not love their children.
16
What part of "shall not be infringed" leads to an exception for scary black rifles that function no differently than the same rifle with a wooden stock?
Since money seems to be the only thing such "legislators" understand, the rational response would be for states and individuals that have fallen victim to Tennessee's irresponsibility to sue them for everything they have.
Then perhaps the scales will fall from their eyes.
100
WHAT? NYT: "The Waffle House shooting is a painful reminder of Tennessee’s failure to protect its own citizens from mass murderers with guns." This determined, demonic individual had firearms legally removed from his possession twice yet somehow, somewhere, managed to acquire more weapons! What is Tennessee doing about hardening targets like schools, restaurants and public places?
9
I've lived in a country with armed guards all over the place -- ice cream parlors, Chinese restaurants and schools, just to name a few. It's an ugly, scary, degrading way to live. "Hardening" is a great term, but not in the way you mean -- hardening of civil society.
23
Harden all restaurants and public places? Are you nuts? If we have to do that, we've totally lost the game. Look, sensible gun laws aren't going to prevent all of these incidents - there are too many guns already out there - way too many guns. But reasonable gun restrictions will likely stop some and lessen the impact of some others. Only a completely insane society sits back and does nothing.
12
Of all the stupid arguments liberals employ against gun ownership, the one that semi-automatics are purely offensive weapons, and not for defense, is the stupidest. ANY weapon that is effective for defense will also be effective for offense. It's fantasy to assume you can make one for the former and not the latter. Hindering a weapon's capability (by requiring bolt action) will make it much harder to use it for defense.
In any event, given that the father broke the law by returning the guns to a prohibited person, I'm not sure what Tennessee's gun laws had to do with this. What good would allowing Nashville to pass laws that this maniac would have ignored have done?
11
The guy who took the gun away from the shooter in Nashville was not armed, except with determination to disarm the shooter. More guns would have brought more deaths as shots go wild in the confusion of a situation like this.
15
The Nashville episode is not "an American tragedy," as the title of this article calls it. It may be a tragedy that so many men go berserk so often, but it is a crime that even the craziest guys have so much access, so easily, to weapons of mass destruction.
26
In America, guns seem to be more important than innocent people's lives. I have voted in favor of controls on gun purchasing whenever I have the opportunity, but nothing will change until more people vote. I wish I could feel more optimistic.
83
If I understand this opinion correctly, the killer had his weapons taken away in Illinois, and it was Illinois officials who gave those weapons to his father. But it is the fault of Tennessee that his father gave them back to him??? I agree that the Tn gun control laws are too lax, but to blame it for the father giving weapons to a mentally ill individual seems a bit rich.
I used to live in upstate NY. There, a former convict (he had murdered his grandmother and gone to prison) killed some firemen on Christmas Eve. He had done so with a rifle that he was not legally permitted to own. He obtained the weapon when a young woman he knew bought it for him, knowing that he could not legally buy or own it.
Blame needs to be placed where it properly belongs, not where it is politically convenient.
11
True. The blame lie on this entire country, with our lawmakers too weak to listen to the majority of their constituents and with voters too apathetic to get to the voting booth. Americans want gun control. Our only hope lie with those high school kids in Florida who may mobilize the younger generations to finally vote for change. Goodness knows adults won't do it.
11
The NRA is to blame, the world's most dangerous terrorist organization.
21
Great article, lays out the situation very well, but it omits the follow-up information that we also know.
The worthless chants of thoughts and prayers will continue, people will blame our lack of mental health care (and this is a problem, but one that these same people never do anything about ). Reinking will never walk free again, ideally, but the people he killed never will either, and the families of all those he shot are going to suffer the repercussions forever.
But primarily, Tennessee will keep electing Republicans, and they will keep making sure people have easy access to guns, and guns bought in Tennessee will still kill people across the nation.
I'd really rather believe otherwise, but I've seen how this ALWAYS goes, and I'm sure this time will be the same. If you don't want to get gunned down by a maniac, your best bet is to stay out of red states. Don't hope for red states to change.
175
I have family in Nashville, some by choice and others due to job transfer. I don't know how they will roll with this, but I'll bet the ones who are there only temporarily will be glad to be leaving this red blooded state in two more years.
22
Massachusetts is relatively safe. Similar to Canada.
15
It is true that States with more stringent laws that prevent access to guns have fewer gun deaths. The problem is that the laws do not prevent anyone from buying a gun in one State and bringing it to another.
36
Tennessee may have easy access to guns but these mass shootings have occurred all over the country. I seriously hope Reinking's father faces some type of charges.
61
Nothing will change until the rich and elite lose their children, their loved ones to a maniac with a gun. This terrorists father should have his house targeted by an airstrike like Trump promised.
63
Not condoning or excusing any violence and I hope the perpetrator is prosecuted to the law’s full extent, but white males commit murder at a rate far below men of other demographics. This includes mass shootings, which entail four or more victims.
It seems that there’s nothing more American than a race baiting divisive ( and yet not factually grounded) headline, at least in this newspaper.
2
A quick google search backs up the article's statements.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/476456/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-s...
19
First this is an opinion not a news story. Please provide your reference for the facts you are stating to be true.
12
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/10/what_th...
There are tons of articles like this. And, you also did not address my point about murder generally, which is far greater contributor to the death toll than the more widely covered mass shootings.
Yet again another troubled, angry, young white male with access to weapons meant for war. Assault rifles are not for hunting, not for protection- but to kill. It’s always the same lame arguments, the second amendment and all that. The real truth is there is so much money to be made on gun sales that the NRA and the politicians they’ve bought don’t give a damn about the safety of our citizens. They’ll stoke the fears of the gun toting masses by claiming ‘they are coming for your guns’ when in reality those of us who’ve had enough of this insanity just want common sense gun regulation. I long for the day I can be proud of my country again.
313
The moment you call for "common sense" gun regulation is the moment I (and all other conservatives) will stop listening. The very term implies that no one can disagree if they have any "common sense." If you're going to start by calling people with whom you disagree irrational, why should we listen to you?
In any case, please propose an example of a "common sense" regulation (compatible with the 2nd Amendment) that would have stopped this?
6
How about banning assault weapons? Surely our founding fathers didn’t invasion this travesty. Silly for me to think conservatives actually possess “common sense”
55
Jon W. First of all, the 2nd Amendment begins with the statement "A well regulated Militia". None of the shooters in these mass shootings were members of a Militia. Also, there are guns they should never be used by civilians. They are meant for the Military as any real soldier who has served in Afghanistan or Iraq will tell you.
As for "common sense" how about real effective country wide background checks and a limitation of the size of magazines and the types of bullets used?
3
This shooting proves that limiting clip size saves lives. Mr. Shaw was able to jump the shooter when he stopped to reload. (The LIRR shooter in the '90s was also stopped when he tried to reload.)
We need national gun safety laws so that guns confiscated in one state cannot be returned to their owner in another.
236
And it also can cost lives. In any case, if we don't "need" large magazines, neither do the police. If they're only for offense, and not for defense, leave them in the hands of the military only, and not in the hands of law enforcement.
14
Tennessee may be among the worst states for allowing unfettered access to guns, but there is nowhere in America that a person can escape this scourge.
255
Try Connecticut, Massachusetts, or New York. Strengthened gun regulation is paying big dividends in fewer deaths by firearm. States that fail to do that pay a big price in all kinds of gun deaths. Darwin in action.
25
Mike the Moderate proclaims CT, MA and NY better states for reasonable gun control. Problem is, their regulation can be sidestepped by visiting their neighbor states. There is legislation in the House that is trying to guarantee open-carry nationwide. Won't that be nice when we take our kids on vacation to show them our beautiful country from sea-to-shining-sea?
How many Americans can pick up and leave to re-establish in Connecticut, Massachusetts or New York. But to your point, see where the gun lobby is paying the biggest dividends.
There is also something fundamentally democratic about an elementary school in Newtown CT, there is also something fundamentally democratic about a concert in Las Vegas, there is also something fundamentally democratic about a night club in Orlando, there is also something fundamentally democratic about a high school in Parkland Fl....
The problem is our democratically elected officials lack spine and think a few dollars from the NRA is worth putting our citizenry in harm's way.
422
"our democratically elected officials lack spine".
ELECTED! It is the electorate who ELECTS these creatures that is to blame.
3
The father should be charged as an accomplice to murder, even if the son is determined to be mentally incompetent.
408
He did nothing illegal. He asked in accordance with law and tradition. The only ones to blame for the massacre are the ruling GOP politicians.
8
His son was a prohibited person and he knowingly transferred firearms to him. It was illegal.
3
Jay, I agree, however the fact is that politicians, mostly Republican are more to blame. They are to blame for their inaction on this issue for far too many years.
Would that the scourge of gun violence were uniquely limited to Tennessee. That would be simpler to address. But we have suffered through mass killings from Connecticut to Florida, Nevada to California, Virginia to Texas. Even those states who have sane gun laws can easily be undermined by states which don't.
As objectionable as Tennessee's easy gun access is, the underlying pathology is that the country is awash in lethal weapons.
186
True, and national legislation is necessary, but staes with stricter gun laws do in fact have lower rates of gun violence overall.
3