Last night, (daytime in Russia), in the space of a few minutes time, at least 4 "different" people left comments, all citing a report by Robert Fisk, trying to place blame away from Assad and Putin.
Interesting coincidence that they all showed up at the same time and used the same reference. Is this what a Russian troll attack looks like?
The website that published Fisk is full of conspiracy theory articles, with a special focus on making the USA look bad as much as possible. You will find articles suggesting the Twin Towers were brought down in controlled demolitions, not by Islamic terrorists. You will find articles by an author who has written a book claiming that Zionists collaborated with Hitler to create a Jewish state.
The owner of the website, Michel Chossudovsky, is a frequent guest on RT (formerly Russia Today).
In comments below I have provided links to the actual reports prepared by UN investigators, under a mandate from the Security Council, proving that Assad's military is responsible for chemical attacks in the past, repeatedly over the last 7 years.
Take your pick.
2
So why aren't reporters on your side in Douma. Fisk was published in the Independent (London) not a marginal website.
So, my fellow Portlander, any comments on the substance of Fisk's report?
Now that I've answered your question (assuming the moderators post it), tell me why I should find Fisk's report credible?
"your side" ... ?
The only "side" I'm on is the one that is interested in trying to find reliable and truthful information. I doubt it's going to be found on a website like Global Research, backed by a publisher who specializes in keeping RT and its state patron, the Russian government happy.
The substance of Fisk's report looks very flimsy to me. The videos currently circulating, which I've linked to in earlier comments, clearly show people dead and suffering from symptoms of chlorine gas poisoning. Other commenters have pointed out other problems with his report. I won't repeat them here. You can read them below.
Assad's military also has a repeated history of launching chemical attacks of this sort, as the UN/OPCW inspectors have documented in numerous reports over the last several years. The pattern of this attack is very similar. I've posted links to these reports but the moderators have not yet put my comments up. I've asked them to do so.
The French report gives a very plausible reason why Assad would have been motivated to launch an attack like this.
Maybe once the Syrian government and Russia have cleared the path to allow UN inspectors back in, maybe we'll know more. Of course, by now most of the evidence has been cleared away.
If these poor people had died from dust inhalation, we would be seeing dust over them, other survivors and responders as these videos are clearly shot immediately after the attack. I've seen no sign of this.
I've read comments about having access to viewing the bodies by inspectors or others.
Islamic law requires that bodies be buried within 24 hours by adult male members of the family. The body should only be viewed by immediate family members until washed by adult members and wrapped in white cloth(s). There are varying prayers & rituals, but bodies should not be transported and should be buried nearby, placed on its side in the grave and facing Mecca. (May they RIP.)
As to motivation: Assad is a callous snake who wanted to put an end to the one area where rebels still had an active presence.
Suggesting it makes no sense for Assad to do this is like trying to figure out Trump's motivation. If you're trying to use a normal template to evaluate decisions, it's going to be wrong. UN reports make it clear that this is just a normal day at war for this beast.
And as Military-Strategist-in- Chief Trump had just announced his decision to cease US efforts in Syria- why not? Carte blanche.
1
With respect to Putin's motivation, I refer you to the excellent French analysis of Assad's strategy of recent weeks in dealing with the rebel groups in the Douma area.
Reuters has published an English translation (see link below). I refer you to section 2 of that report.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-france-intellige...
Yesterday's Komsomolskaya Pravda was complaining that the West had rushed to judgement instead of waiting for the inspectors to look for evidence. Now we find that the Russians themselves have been denying the inspectors access.
I'm clinging to the belief that Putin's Russia is nowhere near as bad as Stalin's, but this doesn't look good.
2
If the Russians and Syria were sure that they did not perpetuate this attack, wouldn't they want the inspectors in there are quickly as possible?
3
It's great that Robert Fisk found and spoke only to the one Doctor who spoke fluent English, used Assad party-line vocabulary, and whose description makes him sound either insane or happy about Assad wiping out "enemies," also known as men, women and children: "There’s even a friendly doctor in a green coat who, when I track him down in the very same clinic, cheerfully tells me that the ‘gas’ videotape which horrified the world – despite all the doubters – is perfectly genuine."
2
The inspectors in Iraq in the past were caught putting in electronic relays for guided misses guidance for future bombing raids.
Any source of this truly sensational information ?
If it happened even once, the OPWC would never be allowed or even welcome be Russians and Syrians.
"electronic relays for guided misses guidance " you mean guided to miss the targets ?
Nice try Pietia.
2
Like Trump's resistance to investigation into Russian involvement in our elections, Syria-Russia's resistance to the inspectors leads to one conclusion: there's something they're trying to hide. Keep it simple folks (including pro-Russian trolls): this is NOT how innocent people act. In both situations we see all the classic signs of attempts to hide a crime.
Despite the tricky & sophisticated hogwash, there's still a role for common-sense: this is NOT how innocent people (or nations) act.
(And may the suffering people of Douma not be forgotten in all this. May justice prevail!)
4
This reminds me a lot of the run-up to the US decision to invade Iraq.
1
This is not the complete story.
The alleged gas attack in Syria that the Trump government has used to illegally bomb Syria is based on a fake video filmed in a Syrian medical clinic. Indeed, the sick children who are seen in the video suffer from a respiratory disease called "hypoxia" (which is caused by a lack of oxygen in the blood and which requires to receive oxygen with a mask), and their condition is not at all caused by chlorine gas, as government propaganda has tries to dupe the world population. Trump bombed Syria before having all the facts.
Please search on Google the report of an English journalist on the spot: "Robert Fisk Reports Head of Douma Clinic Denies Chemical."
2
Mr Fisk went on a tour for journalists organized by Syrian government, as he does not speak Arabic, was assigned or used translators and a second accompanying person, all accredited by Syrian government.
He has never met anybody alone.
And this in a country where people opposed to Assad have been disappearing, to be found tortured to death. In the interview, he meets people living next to the bombing site that has not seen or heard anything about fighting....this is the safest option.
You are naive; there were western journalist visiting Stalin's prisons and Red Cross visiting Nazi concentration camps (Theresienstadt) and have not seen anything outrageous.
3
They needed more time to clean up their mess.
3
" Sergey V. Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, said, “I can guarantee that "Russia has not tampered with the site.”"
Yes sir, your word is a bond!
Maybe Mr Lavrov meant that "has not tampered" (past tense) is correct description of the site because Russians are actually actively tampering with it (present continuous tense), Mr Lavrov is a sophisticated man.
4
Prohibiting independent inspection speaks volumes. This action should convince any and all doubters.
7
Has it occurred to any of the other commenters citing Robert Fisk's report that its conclusion hinges on the opinion of only one doctor, who could very easily be under coercion (or otherwise aligned with the Assad regime)?
That's certainly not conclusive one way or another, but it's indeed suspicious that independent inspection is being blocked.
9
My questions to Richard B: Who accredited the journalist? Is there any such thing? Well, I guess in Russia, probably. That issue aside, if there was no chemical attack why block neutral UN inspectors who could verify that there was no attack. Or are they waiting for it to rain?
The BBC news is in now reporting that the OPCW inspectors have been allowed access, which contradicts the argument that "we" bombed them, so they shouldn't let us in. 11 days later, this has left plenty of time for tampering. The Russian assertion that this was "staged" also contradicts the doctor's account that the deaths were real, but from simple hypoxia.
All of the denialism in these comments fails to account for many other reported details, including sightings of gas canisters by residents, and symptoms among the victims including discolored skin, corneal burns, and the emission of chlorine-like odor from the corpses.
Whether driven by anti-Trump impulse or not, there is a questionably large amount of pro-Russia sentiment here. I'd be willing to bet at least some of these contributions are professional propaganda, but the arguments are weak and clearly agenda-driven regardless.
www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-43792120
www.who.int/mediacentre/news/statements/2018/chemical-attacks-syria/en/
yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/bbc-news-chemical-attack-syria
1
The verdict by independent weapons inspectors in Douma this week now seems somewhat irrelevant as the US has already responded militarily at the weekend; Round one? No time to consider any other alternative than the Syrian government as the guilty party. However the accredited British journalist Robert Fisk visited Douma in recent days and found no evidence of any chemical attack. Now any contrived chemical attack (by whoever) will mandate more US attacks making the situation even worse for everyone. Somehow this phase of the Syrian war designed for descent into new COLD WAR era to seal the fate of mankind? Last orders?
4
Strange that a journalist and photographer visited Douma yet trained chemical weapons experts cant.
9
Who accredited the journalist? Is there any such thing? Well, I guess in Russia, probably. That issue aside, if there was no chemical attack why block neutral UN inspectors who could verify that there was no attack. Or are they waiting for it to rain?
1
Yes, it was so inconsiderate of US/UK/France not to wait for Syria and Russia to go in and clean up the chemical mess before sending in their inspectors.
1
For what it's worth there is another account of what happened in Douma. Robert Fisk, a long time Middle East correspondent for the Independent seems to be the first western reporter actually on the scene of the attack.
His report is that there was no gas attack. The civilians living in deep tunnels under their homes were suffering from hypoxia, a shortage of oxygen caused by the huge amounts of dust created by heavy shelling.
According to the doctor interviewed by Fisk, the ailments were real, but not chemically caused. The first cry of "gas" apparently came from some of the White Helmets, a group lauded in the Western media but suspected of having strong ties to the rebels.
It will be instructive to see if this same doctor or other staff from his hospital are interviewed by the OPCW.
here's the link to the story: https://www.globalresearch.ca/first-western-journalist-in-syrian-hospita...
4
Why would Assad use chemical weapons in Douma?
The French report describes a very plausible reason why. You will find it in section 2 of the report linked below.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-france-intellige...
2
If any of you continue to believe that Assad's Air Force has not been responsible for chemical attacks in the past, I encourage you to look at my other comments below where I have provided direct links to the UN investigative committee's reports. There are many reports and fully detailed. They present compelling evidence that both the Syrian Air Force and ISIS have repeatedly and frequently used a variety of chemical weapons. Kurdish and US supported rebel groups have also come under scrutiny and have probably used them, though with far less frequency.
Going to the source material is really important in our current news climate. It's hard to find. It's difficult reading. Some of these reports run to several hundred pages. But the information is there for anyone who wishes to look.
These are not "opinion pieces". These are the reports prepared by people on the battlefield, as mandated by the UN Security Council.
10
Obama drew a line in the sand. And then moved it. And then moved it again.
Trump made a stand and enforced it.
Making The World Safe Again.
3
Everyone should study the above comment. This was the true point of the missile barrage—to rally support among the pro-Trump base. A missile strike to enforce “lines in the sand” accomplishes no other goal—it certainly didn’t stop Assad from using chemical weapons the last time Trump tried it. Where is the “big price” he promised that Russia, Iran and Assad would pay? Now he is walking back the Russian sanctions that UN ambassador Haley promised. Trump is clearly scared of Putin. He has made our country look foolish and weak.
1
Nobody maligns Russia; nobody generates Russophobia more than the Russian regime itself. Everything it touches turns lethally dark. Every official statement from the country's spokespeople is mendacious; every single one. There are no exceptions.
This is a regime that absolutely cannot be trusted under any circumstances or at any time. It is impossible to do business with Russia because no commitments, no agreements, no promises are worth the hot air or the flimsy paper that carry them.
Our regime here at home? Not much different, but at least diverse voices still remain to counter the presidential narrative.
13
Agree, the evil empire cannot be trusted now or anytime in the future. Every proclamation must be viewed as propaganda. This is a country founded on deceit and murdered millions of its own to propagate its lies. Unfortunately they have become too powerful to be eliminated from the world
stage. However they must be repelled at every point through sanctions and limited military action. If it could be done, I would squeeze them dry.
6
You may be overlooking the fact by casting Russia as "the evil empire" in disgrace supporting Syria and trying to poison former spies in Salisbury England that Europe reliant on Russian gas and oil. How significant that Trump demands China buys US gas and oil; instead of from Russia? German industry uses Russian gas and oil without which it would be down and out; especially as Germany decommissioning all nuclear power plants. All about oil?
If Sarin was used in the attack, even the first responders would be victims, given they wear no protection from a lethal nerve agent. If Chlorine gas was used, it is likely it would have not caused so many lethal civilian casualties.
If this was indeed a chemical attack by Assad's forces, it makes no strategic or tactical sense, and makes one wonder whether Assad has control over his forces.
However, I wouldn't put it past AQ or ISIS to stage an attack to draw the U.S. into the fight against Assad. That makes more sense, given their losses on the battlefield and Trump's recent call to leave Syria.
3
chlorine vs Sarin
The UN investigative reports I've linked to in other comments mostly have found chlorine barrel bombs, not much sarin. The barrel bombs are very crudely made. Basically barrels of chemicals with a bare minimum of explosives to disperse them once the barrels hit the ground and burst.
They are simply pushed from low flying aircraft.
Their crudeness is an advantage. They are cheap. And the evidence can be disposed of very quickly. The UN investigative team describes how difficult it has been for them to be able to respond fast enough to gather evidence before the site gets ransacked by the Syrian Army.
3
It will turn out the cause of deaths and injuries was not gas but suffocation of people who were in cellars or tunnels during the bombardment.
We titter and tremble over ‘fake news’ that most discerning readers, re: nominally intelligent adults, would spot on their Facebook News feeds in about a New York minute. It would be the “Hillary births Alien” that would be the tip off.
But a chemical attack, at the very moment Assad is declared the winner, when ISIS is vanquished, and the rebuilding of image and property should begin in earnest...that’s about as probable as the first attacks that bedeviled Obama, attacks that happened 300 yards from the UN weapons inspectors who just happened to land in Syria on that very day, after the entire world warned that they would crush him. Probable?
Oh, when it comes to making a point we don’t understand willingness to gas their own to triumph ideologically in the ME. But lay that aside.
If you’re looking for bread crumbs leading to the action around Syria perhaps look no farther than Syria’s proxy: Russia. Seems they poisoned a few malcontents living abroad, particularly in London— now, how to REALLY pay them back in ways nation states and their Intelligence Agencies, understand perfectly, clearly, and without equivocation?
2
The report to the building bombed was availabe before the bombing. Had they of been actual chemical sites ! Toxic clouds would had formed and killed countless civilians , miles away.
The report on the first inspection that was conducted between 26 February and 5 March 2017 says that "the inspection team did not observe any activities inconsistent with obligations under the Convention," noting that Damascus had provided unimpeded access to the inspectors "to all selected areas."
The follow-up inspection, carried out in November, did not find any incriminating evidence either.
The March 2018 report reiterates: "As stated in previous reports, all of the chemicals declared by the Syrian Arab Republic that were removed from its territory in 2014 have now been destroyed."
Not surprising in the least and means nothing. The Syrians have probably identified that some "carpetbaggers" tucked in among the UK inspection team. As they know there was no chemical attack in Douma - the Chinese media have already pointed out that Assad had no need to do any such thing, adding their own take to the ever-growing list of skeptics about this so-called attack - they are aware that this realize this is a ploy to sneak in such entities the guise of a UN inspection. If one has had the fortune to live long enough and is paying attention, one gets to see most such things repeat itself. But of course, there are many here baying for Syrian and Arab blood regardless of any proof. It wouldn't matter anyway, so deep is your hatred. You know who you are very well.
1
I'll bet you can cite us some of that "proof," eh? Maybe just a little?
"Assad has used chemical weapons against his own people REPEATEDLY in the last 7 years. This has been PROVEN by UN investigating teams as well as other organizations."
3
I provided relevant links in my comment, and also in response to some of your own comments.
Can you present proof of Assad's sweet and gentle innocence from sources as reliable as UN investigators? If so, I'd like to see it as well. I'm prepared to change my view in light of convincing evidence.
4
'Maybe just a little ["proof"]?'
See the white foam running down the face of one of the victims in the second photo here:
Dozens Suffocate in Syria as Government Is Accused of Chemical Attack
By BEN HUBBARD
APRIL 8, 2018
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/08/world/middleeast/syria-chemical-attac...
(Click the photo to enlarge it.)
1
Paragraph 5 of the UN investigation group's letter summarizes some of their conclusions and puts the blame squarely on the shoulders of the Syrian Air Force for some of the chemical attacks.
https://documents-dds-ny.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N17/037/89/pdf/N1703789.pd...
Other than Roger Waters, who is actually surprised at this news?
SO! It turns out that Russia does NOT want the truth known about those chemical attacks.
9
Robert Fisk from The Independent yesterday interviewed a resident doctor at the hospital at which the infamous video was shot. There was no chemical attack. The video is authentic but the victims were suffering from dust inhalation. Proof lies in the fact that no bodies have been produced.
4
Where does he want them delivered? On his doorstep?
Of course, the video below does not constitute evidence. The apparent dead bodies are more likely actors being paid by the West, on behalf of the rebels, to pose as gassed, dead bodies, in order to justify further attacks on Assad (who, by the way, has been proven responsible for previous chemical attacks by UN investigators).
If seeing dead bodies and children suffering makes you uncomfortable then I suggest you do not watch the video below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB9oWGwKOlA
I hope the actors were well paid.
Here's a link to the UN report on attacks in August 2013, and some analysis by news media who help to explain it.
https://undocs.org/A/67/997
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/16/sarin-attack-crimes-syria-...
Another UN report regarding a 2017 incident.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2017/11/570192-both-isil-and-syrian-governm...
Russian grand-standing in the Security Council has made it impossible for UN investigators to place blame for the attacks. However what they leave "between the lines" makes it fairly easy to see where they believe the blame lies.
3
Listen everybody! Russia needs to clean up the area first and it's being done for safety of the Arms Experts. Heaven forbid, if the team was to go into the area and get contaminated by residual chemicals.
4
Maybe they're waiting for it to rain?
From the article:
" ... the Western allies said that they had ample evidence that the Syrian government had dropped a chemical agent on Douma ... "
Is there some reason that evidence can't be made public?
3
the Russian military grade nerve agent attack victim survived. tough cookie she is, or that wasn't Russian nerve agent. I expect Theresa may's James bonds put on a better show better than that.
should we believe anything from our shameless leaders of the so called free world?
What would you consider irrefutable evidence and how likely is it that sort of evidence would be available to the general public?
There are plenty of videos taken by medics and aid workers at the scene of the attack, treating the victims. Of course, that is not irrefutable. One can argue, as the Russians do, that the whole thing was staged for the camera.
There is also the testimony of medical workers in the clinic in Douma, where people foaming at the mouth where brought in with all the symptoms of chemical exposure.
There is the testimony of people like Alistair Hay, professor of Toxicology at Leeds University, quoted in the Washington Post, who says the photographic and video evidence he reviewed strongly suggests the deaths were caused by chemical means.
Of course, we don't have a recording of the phone call, or a copy of the email in which Assad ordered the attack. So it is more reasonable to assume, like the Russians propose, that the whole thing was staged and never really happened and that it was also caused by rebels ... even though it never happened and was staged. That seems much more likely and makes much more sense.
2
Who here actually believes Assad and Russia would allow UN inspectors into a site that has compromising evidence?
Assad has used chemical weapons against his own people REPEATEDLY in the last 7 years. This has been PROVEN by UN investigating teams as well as other organizations.
It takes months to prove culpability in a chemical attack. Meanwhile Assad and Russia quietly pack up their facilities and put them in hiding. Investigators find nothing, of course, assuming that Russia even allows them to visit the relevant locations.
The US/UK/France bombing of the chemical facilities was basically punishment for Assad's previous, PROVEN attacks. A very fast response is the only way to slow down Assad's assault on his people in a situation like this.
My only complaint is that the USA should not be leading this. There should be a worldwide coalition of the world's stable democracies all contributing equally. (Unfortunately a UN coalition can't happen because of Russia being on the Security Council.) Send in an overwhelming force. Capture Assad and bring him to trial for war crimes. Then help restore order and reconstruction within Syria, with a UN caretaker government if necessary.
This should not be about the USA vs. Russia/Assad. It should be about the world vs a head of state who is engaging in war crimes and crimes against humanity.
https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/Timeline-of-Syrian-Chemical-Weapo...
https://www.un.org/press/en/2018/sc13196.doc.htm
4
Several commenters don't seem to understand that the USA has flatly refused to accept any limits whatsoever on its use of chemical weapons or cluster bombs (or any other weapon, for that matter). Some weapons may be "illegal," as some commenters insist, but the USA doesn't look at it that way. Treaties that prohibit such things are for other countries to sign, not the USA.
Frankly, I don't blame the USA on this. When they're fighting a war, countries use whatever weapons they have. Chemical weapons kill innocent civilians, but so do conventional weapons and nukes.
Poor countries tend to like chemical weapons. They're a lot cheaper than nukes, usually even cheaper than conventional weapons. Rich countries tend not to like it when poor countries use chemical weapons. They prefer that everyone stick with weapons that only rich nations can afford.
2
"Treaties that prohibit such things are for other countries to sign, not the USA."
Wrong. The US has been a party to the Chemical Weapons Convention since 1997. See the list of OPCW member states at opcw.org.
6
Robert Fisk from the UK Independent was there. Doctors doubt gas attack , say likely oxygen deprivation from sustained shelling combined with sand storm
2
After you bomb a place, your bomb targets don't welcome you to walk in and sift through the rubble. That is just how it is. If you "expect" otherwise you are just dishonest.
6
Surprising comment...US, UK and France did not bomb Douma, the chemical attack site.
OPCW is an international verification body and does not bomb anybody.
Russia and Syria welcomed officially OPCW to the Douma site to verify what they say was something that did not happened but now prevent inspectors from accessing the site.
Invited OPCW inspectors expect to be welcome to the inspection's site, what's dishonest about it?
Putin has murdered his opponents at home and abroad.
Putin seized Crimea from the Ukraine and is supporting a terrorist movement inside Ukraine.
Putin's people murdered hundreds of civilians when they shot down a civilizan airliner over Ukraine.
Putin is supporting Assad's war crimes in Syria.
Putin helped Trump get elected.
Why are western advertizers not boycotting the 2018 FIFA World Cup?
That would really hit Russia in the pocket book.
In fact, FIFA should CANCEL the 2018 World Cup.
8
Who wants the riot of the soccer fans?
1
With one month to go until Trump sits down with Kim and demands Kim give up his nukes, what does Trump do? He breaks international law by bombing a sovereign country because something happened there he didn't like.
The message Kim will get is clear. If he gives up his nukes, no treaty or international laws will protect him from American bombs. The forthcoming summit between the two countries is now a dead letter. Its failure was assured when Trump wrote "Mission Accomplished."
9
The "something" was the gassing of innocent men, women and children by their own government. Agree with what Trump did, don't agree, but don't minimize what happened.
3
Let's be very, very clear here: Russia's reasoning behind voting against sanctioning Assad at the United Nations Security Council Meeting that Russia called was that OPCW investigators haven't been able to verify the presence of chemical weapons.
But Russia and Syria are refusing entrance to OPCW investigators that have been sent by the United Nations.
There is no possible situation that Russia will allow that would end in a justification for an attack on Syria due to the use of chemical weapons. Russia will continue to use its voting bloc in UN meetings, its veto power, even muscle on the ground, to prevent any justifiable action by the UN on Syria.
See, they have this Axis with Iran and Syria, remember? We all saw that press conference. If the UN has a justifiable reason to invade Syria, Russia will be bound by its own treaties to defend Syria (and its own chemical weapons bases) - but it won't have the necessary back-up of other major powers like Turkey or China.
Russia is bluffing with a pair of twos. I wonder what we have?
11
C - Don't follow "Let's be very, very clear here" with a confused ramble!
8
Who can believe anything Russia says anymore?
9
Have you seen CBS reporter Seth Doane's interview with a Syrian scientist about what that destroyed research center was doing? It's on their reporters' website (for now).
4
"... interview with a Syrian scientist about what that destroyed research center was doing?"
There is no verification of his claim that "it isn't possible that things were going on that he didn't know about."
And pharmaceutical research would be excellent cover for chemical weapons research.
"... CBS reporter Seth Doane's interview with a Syrian scientist about what that destroyed research center was doing?"
That CBS report is not very convincing. While the scientist may have been telling the truth about what he was doing, CBS fails to verify his claim that "it isn't possible that things were going on that he didn't know about."
And pharmaceutical research would be an excellent cover for chemical weapons research.
Reference:
Scientist gives tour of smoldering site of missile strike in Syria
By Seth Doane CBS News
April 14, 2018
cbsnews.com
1
Shouldn't those chemical labs and plants that we successfully bombed 2 days ago be spewing toxic gases for two days now?
There should be a lot of people sick in Damascus by now. We should be checking that out too.
5
I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. The components used to make the gas probably haven't been mixed.
I'm more interested in the fact that the site has been closed to investigators. What are the Syrians and Russians hiding there?
7
Chlorine? That is an element; not a mixture. They probably concentrate it from air, like He (Helium), the stuff you put in your party balloons. It actually exists as Cl2 sharing electrons to complete octet (most stable configuration)
1
They sent 100 missiles to three locations. They also used ship-to-land missiles and followed it up with air confirmation. I'm pretty sure that was intentional. You don't need that level of firepower to take out a couple of bunkers. You do need that level of firepower to make sure that whatever comes out of those bunkers is vaporized.
1
The weather in Damascus will hit 90F, during the days. Possible rain, late in the week. I suspect they’re hoping the chemicals decompose and, maybe, even hosing down areas with high readings. Time to start cutting financial ties with anything russian.
4
It's not chem weapons storage depot in the middle of a city. Duh!
2
Duh. There is a coating of chemicals on every surface of the area that was attacked with chemical weapons. That coating is diminishing by the hour.
2
So the Russians stole a plot point from The Hunt for Red October? Priceless.
1
The Russians are busy licking the poison off the ground. More strong sanctions are way to go, to make them choose between spreading poison and lies or getting food on the table.
7
I thought the Kerry/Obama deal was ALL chemical weapons were removed, forever, from Syria.
8
What does your comment have to do with this story about a roadblock erected against the investigators?
9
It's a condition called WhatAboutism that afflicts Trump supporters where any news stories causes them to say What About... [Clinton, Obama]....
11
I previously harbored some small doubt it was the Syrian regime that used chemical weapons in Douma, But the fact that the Russians and Syrian officials are preventing the UN team from reaching Douma convinces me that chemical weapons deployed by Assad's forces were used against people in that town. No other interpretation makes sense.
36
That the inspectors were blocked from the site speaks volumes as to the responsibility for the attack. Really? is there any doubt? Why the Tomahawk misses weren't aimed at Assad's palace is what I'm trying to figure out. He is the source, before the manufacturing facilities.
5
US law prohibits targeting a leader of a country. I believe.
3
The US, France and the UK could have waited for the inspectors to get to the site, but who knows when Putin will let them get there. We do have people on the ground in Syria, so we are probably in possession of good intel. And since this is only one of dozens of chemical weapons attacks in Syria, it seems pointless to wait to strike. Or to stop striking.
2
The OPCW team arrived in Damascus at the invitation of the Assad regime to investigate the use of chemical weapons on civilians. But it was denied unfettered access to the site, on security grounds. The Russians were there after the rebels surrendered following the attack. There are concerns that the Russians may have tampered with evidence, hoping to thwart the team’s efforts to conduct an effective investigation.
Putin has tried so hard to make Russia great again. But he has stooped pathetically low and gone to great lengths to protect the murderous regime of a tin-pot dictator. It's not exactly a sophisticated way to demonstrate statesmanship.
7
As Dimitri Trenin from the Carnegie Centre in Moscow very explicitly warned, if you lose the battle for credibility, you are done for.
Reading the comments on this site must be very painful for the Russians. Russian credibility is zero and their deep desire for respect has completely failed.
Dictatorship just doesn't work. Putin has too much power and has been around for too long. Just ask the ''Donald.''
6
Just like how Trump wants to "preview" his lawyer Cohen's files, the Russians want to "secure" the site of their crimes.
Both want to scrub away all evidence and continue their regime of lies and deflections and whataboutisms. Two peas in a pod, Putin and Trump.
4
Not a fair comparison. There is such a thing as attorney/client privilege. And, I don’t think Trump is committing mass murder. When you make statements like this you embolden Putin.
2
You might want to ask civilians in Yemen, Mosul and Raqqa if Trump is guilty of murder. And which side he is on in Gaza when the Israelis gun down protestors.
2
It is reasonable to assume that with all the attention on eastern Ghouta in recent days that all sides have collected detailed surveillance records from satellites, drones and ground based instruments about everything happening there. Someone has to publish the evidence and stop these childish accusations.
6
To Heck with curing cancer or conquering Mars.
We need to have a world-wide, top class research groups working on an invention that causes any explosive based weapons to self destruct at their time and place of firing.
1
Looks like Trump is using Bush's playbook when it comes to bombing without waiting for the inspections.
7
...and Putin and Assad are borrowing from Saddam's playbook of not allowing inspections by inspectors they allowed into the country to confirm their denials of prohibited weapons.
Saddam Hussein was probably trying to give the impression that he had prohibited weapons, to keep Iran at bay, but he accidentally convinced the US. Putin is probably waiting for a rainfall to get rid of the evidence of chemicals on the landscape.
3
that is not what Hans Blix said
4
Oh, this is all so despicable on the part of the U.S., England and France and the reporting is not helping at all. Bombs were dropped before an inspection could take place. Then, the U.S. and its allies blocked official U.N. approval of the proposed inspection by the O.P.S.W. The inspection was planned anyway. Now, they are poisoning whatever evidence the inspection might reveal by claiming obstruction and tampering. On top of that, the fact remains that France claimed to have irrefutable evidence about who was responsible and what chemicals were used in the attack yet continues to refuse to present that evidence without even an explanation as to why they are refusing to do so. If such evidence truly exists, why is an investigation by the O.P.S.W. even necessary?
19
Did we read the same article? The actual spokesperson of the UN saying that the Russians/Syrians were lying about the UN's role? Seems like you're seeing "fake news" everywhere...or you're an FSB troll
15
"Even before the O.P.C.W. inspectors arrived in Syria, the Western allies said they had ample evidence that the country had dropped a chemical agent on Douma, and that it had used chemical weapons many times during the seven-year civil war."
Is this ample evidence actual evidence?
Has the area been analyzed and confirmed for evidence of chemical weapons being used?
Apparently not. Good luck, World.
11
Since both the UK and France said it had direct evidence, I expect that evidence came via sources and methods they and US have no intention of sharing with the Russians. Besides, the Russians would simply deny the results. The idea, shared by most NYT commenters, that three different nations, based on no evidence, struck seems ludicrous.
7
The second Iraq war happend.
1
My guess is that Assad is guilty in this case but the US and the U.K. and France all exaggerated atrocities in Libya a few years ago as an excuse to intervene. Currently the US and Great Britain supply weapons to the Saudis knowing they use them to kill civilians in Yemen. There are no good guys here.
1
What a pity we could not have waited on the bombing until the experts had done their work. But we know what's right so no external inputs are necessary - or welcome.
4
Reading many comments on Syria from both the right and the left they prefer to demean the actions of Trump and Obama rather than join forces and go after the real problem Putin.
Obama in 2013 through a UN resolution got Syria to remove their chemical stockpile guaranteed by Russia . At the time we were suffering from war fatigue and no one really wanted to engage in further military action including Mr Trump and a Republican Congress.
Fast forward to now and Syria unleashes more chemicals on its innocent people. Mr Trump together with UK and France take surgical action rightly so.
Now we need to find a strategy to bring peace to Syria.
This involves getting Putin to abandon his support for Assad by implementing crippling trade sanctions against Russia unless Putin comes to the negotiating table to find a lasting peace including protecting the Kurds against another dictator Erdogan.
It is time Democratic countries fought back against Dictatorships
24
Russians offered to facilitate Assad to go in 2014. Obama administration declined the offer. “We” thought that we were winning the Syrian war. In our wars, we call the human toll the collateral damage. “Human toll” is specifically for propaganda purposes.
1
Carsafrica, you are absolutely spot on. People are dieing and many people are trying to score political points.
2
Bomb first, ask questions later. Tired of winning yet?
14
Why does anyone believe Russian denials? They have lied continuously about their intervention in the Ukraine, they continue to lie about the poisoning of former Russian agents in England, and they have no interest in seeing confirmation of banned chemical use by Assad forces. They were supposed to be guarantors of no such use after the deal with Obama; they will never admit to have failed in that regard. The most ridiculous Russian claims are that the Assad opposition was responsible in order to get a reaction from the West. That is just as believable as the claim that the Malaysian airline was shut down by Ukranian government forces with a Russian missile to discredit Russia. The fact that Trump is a congenital liar does not make Russians statements more believable.
71
Exactly.
4
Trumps lies normalize everyone else's. Welcome to the new world order where America is just another dictatorship not to be believed.
2
But you should address what the article is about, there are other articles in the New York Times that talks about Trump's administration where you can make comments about how much you hate Trump.
1
Thousands of Yemeni children murdered or maimed by US-aided and supplied Saudi bombings - no problem.
A dozen dead kids in Syria, possibly Alawis murdered by militants and used in a false flag chem weapons attack , and the US is outraged at the government in Syria. Seems more than a tab hypocritical.
25
@Mike
Comrade,
First, change your "home town" to something other than "USA" if you want to avoid being called out. Secondly, the US is not, and never has 'bombed' Yemen.
Second, focus on the issue (if you can):
Use of Gas in War is ILLEGAL.
PERIOD.
11
Munitions used to bomb Yemen have been supplied by the U.S. Yes, use of chemical weapons is illegal, as it should be. The mere existence and possession of such weapons should also be illegal. But you'll have a difficult time convincing the owner of the world's largest stockpile of chemical weapons--the United States--to make them illegal.
7
Paul P
Learn to read. Mike made no claim that the US bombed Yemen, but he did write that the US supplies the Saudis with the materiel. This is true. Yemen is a gargantuan human crisis.
Oh, and don’t bother calling me a Russian bot because of my name. USA all the way.
1
As far as lying goes, the Russians and the Syrians put Trump to shame. They can lie about genocide. How's that for lying? Whatever happens to them should be bad. If we can't punish them, God certainly should.
9
I'm shocked... SHOCKED... to find investigators are being denied access here...
22
The USSR imploded because the Soviet leaders believed their own lies. Russia will implode because you cannot fool all the people all the time.
8
Hasn’t happened to N Korea yet
4
Who to believe?
The only people who can be assumed to be trustworthy are the O.P.C.W. who declined to comment, saying “We are unable to share operational details.”
7
When indeed will Trump impose the Sanctions Congress imposed!!!!???? Now that Putin's Video has been publicly made known, perhaps the financial history of the Trumps and Kushners be the vital link Putin has for holding over Trump.
4
Why they are lying to public?! Sooner or later will know the truth! They lie about Irag and now about Syria There is a proof that all chemical attack was staged and paid by US and British !
4
The OPCW experts arrived in Syria on Saturday -- it would seem reasonable that it would take some time to organize themselves in preparation for their inspection.
In the maelstrom of accusations and counter-accusations about impeding, one thing is clear -- the OPCW officials in Syria ARE SILENT AS TO THEIR PLANS.
In the UK, where only 22% support the Brits' involvement in the Syrian bombing without Parliament having been consulted, we have the proven liar, Theresa May, facing an avalanche of criticism in Parliament,flailing about and desperately trying to deflect the criticism away, by making these claims of impeding.
How about waiting for a day or two before passing judgment.
20
I'm from Missouri originally. SHOW ME the evidence before launching missiles and bombs.
47
Yes, of course, there is most likely still too much evidence there to prove this genocide of sorts by Assad with the assist of Putin. Our recent strike was but a gesture of outrage. We had a moral obligation to send a message. But that is all it was. And bombs and missiles will make no difference and are not the answer. There will continue to be an endless supply of chemical weapons by Russia.
So what do we do? More war, more involvement? Please, no. A true leader, a moral and responsible president - both woefully lacking by the present occupant in the Oval Office - would start now in uniting all our allies in diplomatic efforts directed toward one goal: Insist on aiding those Syrian innocents being massacred daily with medicine, food, water, and shelter. Certainly there are enough of us to do this. But the one question in my mind is: Do our so-called democratic nations care enough about these people a shade darker than we who are not Christians?
4
If they cared they would stop bombing and invading. Colonialists used to claim to bring civilization to these people. Now they claim to bring freedom and democracy.
1
The UN team's goal was limited to whether a chemical attack occurred, not to identifying the attacker. For the Russians to assert, when it is in a position to know the truth, that no chemical attack took 0lac3 but if one did, it was conducted by the opposition (which happens not to have an Air Force), tells you all you really need to know.
The real problem for Russia is that Iran seems to calling the tune, using Assad as the puppet and, for the moment, hiding behind Russia. Unless Russia can somehow impose its will on Iran, which would require enforcing both Western and Israeli red lines, things will spin out of control for Iran's strategic ambitions dwarf Russia's. If Russia does lose control, it will find itself defending a small enclave around Latakia where it has its military base, while the rest of Syria will have disintegrated and more refugees try to flee into Europe through Turkey.
5
Ah, so we had targeted airstrikes on three supposedly chemical depots. Boom! They were destroyed. Mission Accomplished! Really, what was accomplished? All the bombed buildings in the picture and God knows, Syrians under that rubble? And we are jubilant. By know we should know that Assad is not a stupid man and his chemical war weapons are not slowly moving in rickety trucks in the desert! There are more such chemical weapons housed in a lot of different areas. So what is our and the West's next plan. Bomb entire Syria and leave it in rubble? Of course, we will have allies also joining in - Assad, Russia, Iran, Lebanon, Israel. We might and perhaps might get Assad trapped in his palace on the hill in Damascus. But even that is unlikely because he and family might have flown out to Europe by then. Only Syrians will be left behind - dead! And to think we are on a moral mission, a mission accomplished.
4
This is such a joke, we go in there drop a few bombs after giving them almost 10 days notice, all the chemicals, all the weapons, all the hardware removed the first 48 hours, we accomplished very little and spend very much.
Choice should be very simple and clear, we stay out of that area and let the circumstances unfold at their own pace when we go in full force and destroy everything.
We been fighting the same war style since Vietnam 1 foot in/1 foot out, you cannot win a war like that
7
What’s worries me now is not how untrustworthy the Russians and Syrians are ... I’m more worried about the justification of coalition’s strike BEFORE fact-finding mission on the ground took place. World needs more confidence on that!
16
I thought, as the strike was already been carried out, that the coalition should already have got hard evidence in hand indicting the perpetrator. Don’t tell me that you’ve only got as much as rest of the world have, from media reports only. Why didn’t you wait till the investigation is carried out in full before taking your punitive military actions?
26
Probably because there was no hope of getting Russian/Syrian cooperation to do a full & transparent investigation.
Did you see the videos of the dead and dying from the Chemical attack? I'm no expert but they didn't look faked to me...
The US intelligence capabilities are quite good. Between NSA, CIA and NRO, and many others there is a good chance that they have signals intelligence and imaging of the attack. They don't make evidence public, but US/UK and France share it amongst themselves. All 3 thought it justified a response.
The Russians absolutely distrust the UK. PM May has made it a point to bitterly attack Russia for the alleged attack on a Russian citizen in the UK. She has repeatedly stated she wanted to teach the Russians a lesson.
16
The attack was not 'alleged', it is fact. The attribution of responsibility to the Russian state is an allegation backed by signficant circumstantial evidence (means, motive, opportunity, preparations, declared intentions in respect of opponents, track record).
Why wouldn't you criticise such a country in the strongest terms and take proportionate measures as retribution and warning?
9
The Trumps have business interests in Russia and the Balkans. We do not have a President who is willing to punish Russia. We wouldn't have to bomb Syria; we could just freeze Russian assets in the U.S. where the oligarchs have stashed their money.
6
Actually, it was not backed by anything, except speculation. Mean, motive, training, intent and preparation could be attributed to a number of countries including UK and US
2
The goal here is to replace fact-finding with doubt, while children in hospital wards struggle to breathe through their tattered lungs and long for friends and siblings who no longer breathe at all.
When Trump introduced the term "fake news" and used it over and over again at his rallies and press conferences, it sounded so strange, so indefensible, so unreal. Now everyone can bandy the term about, applying it to any report that surfaces regarding behavior they cannot otherwise defend.
Block the path to investigators and label it fake news, and the children with tattered lungs will fade in time below an endless sea of question marks.
45
Gosh, why would they do that? Do they have something to hide??
13
Why would they let them in after we bombed them? Isn't it supposed to be the other way round; they inspect, and if they find something we act?
57
That was how it was supposed to work in Iraq. Now, there is no longer a need for pretense.
7
Because -the inspectors are from the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, which has almost 200 member states. The Director is Turkish. Requiring and enforcing regular inspections ever since the FIRST such attacks would have been best - - but Douma refusing to allow inspectors is to meet with the victims is admitting that they have been severely harmed to such an extent that. Assad and Co. have the opportunity to show that no such attacks occurred. They don't gain anything by posturing.
Oddly enough, Trump and pro war hawks do gain by having a standoff - it justifies the bombardment, makes it seem as if we took action for humanitarian reasons, without requiring a real assessment of policy.
9
"Why would they let them in after we bombed them?"
The OPCW did not "bomb" anyone. The OPCW is an international organization, and Syria has been a member since 2013: opcw.org.
6
You'd think that if the Russians believe this was a faked or rebel initiated event they'd be eager to get the inspectors in there to see. Or maybe it's all part of the Putin Trump choreography. How to look tough as the American independent special prosecutor (Porfiry Petrovich) closes in Trump's Raskolnikov. Crime and Punishment.
6
What were we expecting from Russia? That they would allow an inspection. That they would not prevaricate. Attempting to block the facts that reveal criminal behavior is the hallmark of tyrannical world leaders.
23
I'm not sure how many countries would agree to a "bomb first, inspect later policy". I can understand why the Syrian government will not allow the inspectors to enter the site of the alleged chemical attack. And if there is anyone who is to blame for hindering the work of the OPCW it is undoubtedly Trump.
13
Russia excuse sounds like a typical Trump responds, lie and blame the other side.
40
I find it next to impossible to believe anything the Russians say about Syria, Ukraine, and the poisoning of the former Russian spy and his daughter in England, etc. Putin and his associates appear to be increasingly belligerent.
This makes me think that they are not only guilty of all of the above, but are planning many further destabilizing actions in their "war" on democracy!
34
Blocking the Chemical Weapons Experts from visiting the Syrian/Russian gas attack site is a clear admission by Putin and Assad that they in fact, have something to hide. We already know what they have done so we are not at all surprised by their action.
15
Based on satellite photos, we have destroyed or seriously damaged all the alleged chemical sites. Thus, the potential evidence was blown away or at least significantly tempered. If the O.P.C.W. were not authorized or sanctioned by UN, I doubt the findings will be credible. We should have approved the original UN proposal that would send the UN inspection team instead of O.P.C.W. to Syria. Now it is too late for finding the concrete evidence to show Syria government did the unthinkable. And now it becomes my words against your words in international diplomatic arena. what a mess!
4
Since we knew this would be the result of our actions, I have no choice but to believe it was intentional.
1
You do realize the missiles attacked the factories and storage sites, not the city attacked by the weapons? The inspectors are there to visit the city and sample residue . While chanting “resist, resist”, you might think about reading the story.
2
"Based on satellite photos, we have destroyed or seriously damaged all the alleged chemical sites. Thus, the potential evidence was blown away or at least significantly tempered."
You could be right, but the OPCW team is not going to those sites. They are going to Douma. Read the article again:
"Inspectors from the [OPCW] arrived in Syria on Saturday, but two days later, they still had not reached Douma, the Damascus suburb where about 70 people were killed in the attack on April 7."
1
If there were no chemical weapons used, why would there be this stalling? The inspection team was anyway not going to say who was responsible.
6
Security reasons....Because O.P.C.W asked for it..
1
"Russian and Syrian officials have suggested that the chemical attack in Douma never occurred, or that it was staged by rebel forces or Western powers as an excuse for attacking Syria."
I missed the hilarious news reports by Baghdad Bob and now we have the enjoyment of listening to Syria Sergey.
15
Sadly, jokes made at the expense of so many Syrians.
1
But have you caught the hilarious presentation of Colin, showing WMD of Iraq that were ready to annihilate the whole World at any moment?
3
Imaginary WMD in Iraq, faked massacre in Kosovo (as proven by the Finnish UN investigation), invented story of Viagra for rape in Libya (Hillary's familiar Sid Blumenthal), and the fact that the Pentagon itself admitted that it doesn't have proof of who did the last chemical attack a year ago. Looks like we have our own hilarious "news" reports.
2
It is a stupidity of the UN to send their chemical experts after the bombs and missiles are dropped on Syria to investigate whether the site was used for manufacturing and storage of chemical weapons.
Looks like the war mongers were in a hurry to decide and take action rather than allowing the UN to find out whether the site is being used for chemical weapons.
And, now what these war gang members will prove???
19
You might read the news a bit more carefully. Douma is the city where the Syrian are said to have use the chemical weapons, not the place where the US and allies dropped their missiles. Hope that helps.
39
The team hopes to go to Douma where the alleged chemical weapons were used not to anywhere where such weapons may have been manufactured.
7
Russia, a failed-state with an inferiority complex, exports poison of every type, both literally and figuratively, and has for the last 75 years.
89
Actually, the failed states are Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya. All became such after The wonderful involvement of the US. No surprise Russia is suspicious about the US involvement.
9
That is the pot calling the kettle black. The US has exported death in the form of armaments and bombs all over the world in the same time period. Add to that the out-of-control CIA fomenting chaos, wars, torture and assassinations, and I think that Russia is shown to be a meager player indeed in the game of crimes against humanity.
18
For a "failed State" russian seems to be doing remarkable well.
Looks like Trump was smart not to wait for this inspection which was blocked. Waiting to bomb the railroads to Auschwitz until camps were liberated was a mistake. Whatever his failings he acted correctly on this latest Assad abomination.
20
Still no evidence. So the US bomb and then fined justification. What happened the innocent until proved guilty? Oh, that right, do as I say not as I do. Ahat inspections were carried out after the US used Agent Orange against 3 million Vietnamese? When will the US face the Hague?
28
I suspect the US and it’s allies did airborne spectrum analysis of the location where suspected chemical weapons were used. The results were more than enough (when combined with the video evidence) to establish with virtual certainty that banned weapons were used. Inspectors on the ground will be able to acquire additional information. For the next strike against Assad.
5
So what happened to all this chemical agents that were stored at these sites? Wasn't their risk that all these agents will be released upon the strike and poison the population around?
10