TWD is one of those shows I keep watching, and then ask myself, "Why?" I just finished the 8th season on Netflix.
A *much* more entertaining series: "Preacher."
I keep checking in for Negan to be gone (dead) so I can resume watching, but evidently he is not, so I will continue checking during Season 9.
They let Negan live, so there's no way he's not going to give them the slip and continue to cause mischief. This show long ago jumped the shark. I still watch it, but I much prefer Z Nation, a show that nobody thought would amount to much but that has proven superior to TWD.
Eugene was quite formtunate that each and very one of the saviors waited to use their guns until the showdown
2
I'm with Maggie. Negan an example? Please. As long as he is alive he's a threat. I just hope the writers don't bring him back as a serious foe. It took much too long to bring him down the first time. Move on.
3
Once a fan. Stopped watching after season six. This soap has run it's course.
5
So why are you posting here? What makes your opinion so special, since you're not even watching it?
6
I understand Henry's Boy. You want to know what happened, but you don't want to waste the time watching. The NYT provides the Cliff's Notes of the show. While I did watch the entire season, I am sympathetic with Henry's Boy, the show is getting less compelling.
3
No, I really don't understand the desire to read a recap, let alone post on it, of a television show that you don't like enough to watch. Wouldn't it be better to read a good book instead?
8
The show has an incredible difficulty with keeping up plots and character development. What about Gabrielle's sickness? The Eugene-Dwight thing. OCEANSIDE. Simon being written off (even the reveal that he was the one who massacred Oceanside was very anti-climactic). The list goes on.
The show lost its way when they arrived in Alexandria in the second half of Season 5. The downfall truly began, however, during Season 6's infamous cliffhanger finale. Who is to blame?
The writers can certainly be replaced, but what about former showrunner Scott M. Gimple's impact? Diehard fans know that the story in Walking Dead post-governor was largely controlled and molded by Gimple. AMC, rather than firing him, created a new job title for him this season and hired a new showrunner (of course, Season 8 had already wrapped up filming).
Let's hope that Season 9 brings us back to the days of TWD's glory. The atmosphere, the dialogue, the friendships and occasional lightheartedness found in Seasons 1-3, even parts of 4 and 5, should be reflected on and translated to this forthcoming new chapter. Part of me wonders if the show should migrate from AMC in order to secure a bigger budget (AMC is also notoriously skimpy with their shows, but pay Andrew Lincoln 650k an episode for grunting once or twice to Michonne).
3
No, Eugene is not annoying for me. That's who he is, a nerd. А prodigy. I knew that he would produce the fake bullets from the very beginning. But I was upset by the diminishing role in the 8th season of the three important characters of the show – Carol, Daryl and Jesus. They deserve their own adventures and heroic deeds. Though development of Tara's and Aaron's characters was good.
It’s time to see the interrelation between the main characters while they are building the new world in peace and productiveness and fighting zombies and small groups of thugs. There is one thing, this helicopter. Are those the Whisperers? One way or another, I personally would prefer not to see the heads of Daryl, Carol, Rosita, Enid and Ezekiel on pikes, please!
5
A few thoughts:
—Eugene’s “wordsmithing” is sooooo annoying and ridiculous. I guess the writers think it’s cute? And do others like it? And were you surprised the bullets blew up? I was hoping for something a little more twisty and imaginative.
—Oceanside’s appearance seemed like a kind of afterthought rather than a big save-the-day. Kind of ho-hum.
Okay, enough thoughts in bullets. Charles, I don’t think Rick and Michonne are leaving Negan alive as an act of reconciliation. I think his punishment is to be an example and a warning. That’s an entirely different objective. They better not ultimately rehabilitate him and give him a little garden to tend. I mean, would they have done this for Himmler or Eichmann?—hey, they’ve changed and promise to be good, let’s give them a garden! While I can’t blame Maggie for how she feels, the idea of making her and Daryl enemies of Rick and Michonne is really stupid. I hope we just move on to the helicopter and another completely different phase (and wish Negan weren’t going to be part of it—no offense to Jeffrey Dean Morgan, but he is almost as annoying as Eugene). I agree with commenters Joe and Jon that there could be more interesting plot lines about what the virus actually is, and actually, why wouldn’t it mutate over time?
12
Bullet storyline stolen from Oskar Schindler, who sabotaged his own bullet-making industry to help foil the nazis?
1
Interesting.
Stolen is a little harsh. Isn't history a major source for all kinds of writers. They take on a persona that seem out of sorts with the way they think of themselves, then they begin to understand its appeal. Are sure you don't understand the sneaky thief who lurks around eager to harm someone who's way out of his or HER reach?
1
How many lines has Jesus had in the last 6 episodes? He seems like such a non-entity in this last half. What is his purpose? Agree with those that say this felt like a Series finale. I'd be fine if they left it there - we'll just imagine that they rebuild somehow. Then there's that helicopter...
5
I'd have preferred Negan died, but having read the comics I knew what was to come. The story often parallels the comic but in some key parts it doesn't. The Civil War that's about to ensue will be soon distracted by the million strong horde headed to the Hilltop. Hopefully, the story goes back to fighting the Walkers and building a society.
3
What I liked. Nobody from the main cast died, though in a strange way it made the episode flat, as though nothing significant happened, even though the Saviors are defeated.
Daryl letting Dwight go, after all Dwight put Daryl through. Both men changed and matured. His last line to Dwight, telling him to.." Find her." was the most emotional moment of the episode, it spoke to the pain and loss that both men have been put through.
In a strange way carl defeated Negan..and saved Negan at the same time
The mega-Zombie herd that is forming, the true threat that will unite everyone.
How the episode could have been better
If Eugene would have said: " I did that for Abraham."
If the episode would have ended with Michonne and Rick saying the same exact words to Negan, but not having Negan in bed like that, but having them talking but we don't see who they are talking to, then they leave and the camera pans to Negan in his prison cell, all alone, silent, pondering....fade to black.
8
You should be writing for the series. I mean it. I love the way you picture the final Rick / Michonne / Negan conversation. Plus what you might have had Eugene saying.
4
Appreciate the weekly recaps because I found myself watching less and less TWD this season in favor of more interesting programs on TV or streaming.
2
Rick slaughtered a bunch of Saviors who wanted to surrender just two episodes ago, and now he wants to spare Negan? This show makes no sense.
17
What has been silly about this Negan plotline, is that the heroes had multiple opportunities to kill him and somehow always muffed it, while consistently effectively facing down everyone else. They have sniper weapons and Negan did appear on multiple occasions within range. Guess that's too hard a realism to write around.
7
Jadis : at least her hair looked better.
3
Grinding your friends into dog food sort of has that impact on you - new hairstyle, new you...
7
Having rewatched the episode, I disagree with those who think that Jesus is in agreement with Maggie's plan. He asked, "What does that mean for us" and then Daryl walked in. There is no hint of agreement from Jesus, and in fact they were discussing future plans when she brought up Negan's future.
3
Yay! Eugene came through without crying!
3
James Bond said it best - "Before setting off on revenge, you first dig *two* graves!"
In a just world, we don't execute people, we don't take an eye for an eye. Instead, the person is allowed, and forced to live with the deeds that they have committed.
4
Dear Liberal,
That quote is way, way older than James Bond. It's often attributed to Confucius, but scholars doubt it was him, so nobody really gets credit. But it's an old one, and true.
3
Yes, the complete line, as used in the movie "For Your Eyes Only" (1981) is:
"The Chinese have a saying; "Before setting off on revenge, you first dig *two* graves!"
However, more people probably remember the quote from a James Bond movie than they do it's origins. It's certainly where I most remember it from.
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>"Before setting off on revenge, you first dig *two* graves!">>
Excllent advice, I'd say.
My faith in Walking Dead is finally restored. We expected one set of things to happen. And we goth the EXACT OPPOSITE. No cast members died. Even Negan lived. We had enough of a cathartic moment when Rick slashed him, yet Rick spared him.
And Rick was right to do so. Living in that world, they have to live to their better natured, even more than before. Because the real threat is the walkers, not each other.
Of course, the writers set us up for a bit of a mutiny within the ranks. We'll see where that goes.
But this has to be the most satisfying episode that I have seen in a very long, long time.
4
Hopefully they end this show soon and AMC replaces it with something more interesting.
Every season is always the same, internal bickering then fighting between factions, a final showdown, some main character dies. Rinse and Repeat.
Why not explore what caused the virus? look for survivors? explore another continent? try to find a government outside of Georgia and Virginia? There was so much potential for TWD to be better, instead it's stagnant and quite frankly boring.
27
Why not have the virus mutate and preserve some of the brain so the zombies show some kind of intelligence. Zombies that act as a group, have some sort of language, maybe even a leader. Now that's a horror show!
12
Agreed. Lack of imagination has this show stuck in a trailer trash melodrama stuck in the rural south. It's as if the factions have never heard of anyplace nicer than a prison, an abandoned factory, a junkyard, or farm house.... Suggestion: Get in you cars, drive to Ca and take over Oprah's house. Oprah resides in a 20,424 square foot mansion that sits on a 40-acre estate in Montecito, CA. Known as the Promised Land, the mansion is secluded in the hills and despite its vast size, it is practically impossible to get very close to.(important to keep out the zombies....er "walkers")
No, on second thought, better just cancel it, right now this show IS the walking dead.
10
Guess you don't recall Alexandria.
3
So wait, it was Siddiq's mother who but Carl?
1
That's not the impression I got: I thought Carl was honoring Siddiq's mother's memory by carrying out her belief about freeing the walkers.
5
No, no. Siddiq’s mother was dead. He had had to kill her after she was bitten. As KBC says, they were killing zombies to honor her because she believed they needed to do that to release their souls. Since people have been getting buried in zombies and surviving, have survived hordes just by shoving them out of the way (remember that at the end of the first Alexandra season?), it gets harder to believe that experienced people can let themselves be bit by one zombie. But oh well, made Carl’s demise all the more ironic, I guess.
4
You can get a better idea what the writers are going for if you remember that not all Walkers are the same: as they "age," what they're doing is decaying, falling apart. Flip that: children are easier for Walkers to kill. Desensitization is part of the price we pay both in terms of our "humanity" and in the "thrill" such unaccustomed behavior has on us. You could put the two factors on a graph bearing down on us. You can't really blame the story telling for the coarsening of the characters in an increasingly coarse environment. But then listen to viewers wreaking verbal mayhem on CHILD actors and shudder. And it is here, largely through Easter Egg type tricks, that AMC puts you in a bind. One way they could freshen up the thrill of shows would be to start breaking taboos that WE USE to PROTECT ourselves from the shows. I have argued that children are faring far worse than adults in the apocalypse. The one child-Walker seen in post-Wolf Alexandria should remind you of where the REST of the kids are: they've been EATEN by bigger and “meaner” zombies. Complain loud enough and they'll start “feeding” you those taboo victims. The very “threat” of killing Judith keeps most viewers in line. You should realize that NOT showing a proportional number of child deaths is “unrealistic.” Those children ARE Easter Eggs. Their absence from the screen has functioned as a mental challenge, typical of SF … and that SF has not gratified with robots and monsters.
Be careful what you wish for.
1
I hope Rick destroyed Negan's bat forever. Aaron and the women of Oceanside should have lasted more than 60 seconds. Eugene comes through finally. Morgan is a big loss for TWD. When will Lauren ever start showing she's having a baby.
I love Dwight. I hope he finds Sheri and they come back to Hilltop. He helped Rick so much I don't know why Daryl banished him.
I don't see any reason why Daryl should stay on TWD. He's never on screen.
9
Because Dwight systematically tortured Darryl for weeks?
7
Good riddance.
1
I thought Maggie, Jesus, and Darryl were referring to ending Negan and not to taking over or battling with Rick. The presence and involvement of Jesus was off - I can't see him a party to either of these ideas. As others have said, he plays the moral compass. This season may be my last. It certainly isn't going to become better than the first few seasons.
9
I think they do want to kill Negan, they just realize a Rick coup may be a necessary first step.
Possibly Jesus is there to play moral compass when the time dictates. Maggie may listen as she sees him as her number 2.
6
Can't stand the role/character Negan or the actor who plays him. I keep checking these posts to find out if they've finally killed him off so I can return to watching episodes. Guess not.
3
I always root for the bad guys... I really loved the Governor, but as much as I want to like Negan, the things he does with his tongue. Makes him look so goofy.
2
I came late to the NYTimes recaps of TWD because, having lived a long time within English departments, I knew what I would find, and knowing myself as well, I knew it would not facilitate my lagging effort to "go high" when others "go low." I wrote out the Rotten Egg bits (more than once) lest someone say my commitment makes me unable to see the flaws that might exist. What my colleagues never saw was the merits of the genre that begat "The Science Fiction Century" (with kudos to my lost friend and age-mate David Hartwell). They did/do not know the NAMES of the most important English-speaking authors of their generation, let alone their century; nor could they even now articulate to a classroom full of undergraduates the essence of the stylistic impact of the SF prose style, let alone from whence came the first change to metaphor since Aristotle. (Turning in a story for his final project, a student said to me, "I need more dilating doors.") Nor do even the most committed feminists among my colleagues know how easily readers manipulate our baked in pronoun system.
Mr Bramesco does not argue any of his hits against the finale or the season; he simply asserts, including even his title and Morgan's unlikely diagnosis of schizophrenia. The one place he tries to go further (persuasion v optics), he contradicts himself. By the way, Ezekiel's real name IS Ezekiel, and for those who seem to care, mine is Quixotrist.
2
"for those who seem to care, mine is Quixotrist."
I don't think so.
4
You'd be wrong. Google it if you think you steal that.
Check in now and then to read the recaps, but completely checked out of the show at the start of the current season. Just couldn't put up with the inept writing anymore and haven't watched since (though I still enjoy "Fear the Walking Dead" and try to keep up with it given the show still seems to have some fresh ideas). I heard - correct me if I'm wrong - that AMC has renewed WD (!?!) for yet another season. Unbelievable! It's like watching a zombie show becomes a zombie itself, forever shuffling on as it crumbles into decrepitude and incoherence.
14
For all those who don’t watch the show and just read these recaps - you are getting inaccurate information on many occasions. The interpretations are sometimes just off and sometimes just flat out wrong. Maybe next season they will select a writer who watches the show. If not, I am definitely ready to give up on these recaps. I haven’t given up on the show.
Pet peeves: 1. Darrell’s haircut. It never gets any longer or shorter, so is one of the characters or Darrell himself actually supposed to trim it this way, and frequently? 2) Carl worship. Megan and everyone else - including us the audience - supposed to have seen something compellingly messianic about this grumpy, uncommunicative teenager? Give me a break. 3) years into the post apocalyptic future, still no one ever says anything funny? Anyone who’s ever been in a crisis like combat, hurricane, or earthquake knows that it’s grossly against actual human nature.to not joke around in the ample downtime you spend together just waiting around.
18
I will be pro-Carl when the hat no longer exists.
8
I used to be bugged to death by Daryl’s hair (actually everyone’s hair—where is this post-apocalyptic beauty parlor?) but I’ve actually gotten used to it. I let it go. This isn’t Cast Away. And I also used to wonder if Norman Reedus was wearing a wig. His hair has been in some variation of this cut—the man shag—since the 90’s (no disrespect to Reedus—having seen him on talk shows, he seems like a sweet guy).
1
Also, why is Rick's hair always soaking wet? Like, DRIPPING wet even in cold weather?
1. If Rick wants to Negan as example, he could've have executed him then let him rise as a walker and kept him in a cage.
2. Before the show starts, the flashback from two episodes ago shows Gabriel sabotaging the bullets which was a spoiler ruining the battle scene toward the end of this episode.
3. For this season, Jesus (Paul) was the moral compass for Maggie, Morgan and anyone else looking to off people just for revenge or the fun of it, only to join a mutiny and conspire to overthrow Rick and the defacto leader? It's hard enough to swallow the fact that Maggie and Daryl would turn on Rick considering what they've been through together, but convincing a character that the best forward is to cause more chaos and turmoil after he spent the entire season preaching the exact opposite is a major plot hole.
9
I very much agree with your point #3, Vince. It seemed very hastily written - maybe to give us something to worry about?! The way they Maggie was sitting at that desk looking all Gregory-like. It did not ring true at all. And Jesus' being involved simply makes no sense for the reason you stated.
11
Negan as a verb ... interesting and totally frightening.
1
I guess they're already reconciled to her leaving the show. She'll likely liven things up with struggling with Rick's mercy and her own wrath.
Agree that Maggie plotting against Rick seemed abruptly out of character— though we don’t yet know if she’s really planning a wholesale coup or just Negan’s death. Darryl’s agreement wasn’t a surprise though, given his beefs with Rick earlier this season. As for Jesus: did we actually see his consent to this? He was agreeing with Maggie during the first part of her speech, when she was talking about rebuilding, etc. I don’t know how he reacted to her final declaration.
4
I think the deal with Maggie acting that way gives the viewers that Hate Hate Hate Negan hope that when the new season starts that we will get to see him die a painful slow death. I disagree that Paul (Jesus) would not want to be in on Negan being killed. He in fact was in favor of assassinating him before.
I'm happy to see Morgan move on to FTWD, it has emerged as a far better series than TWD. Last night's opening episode for FTWD was great, looking forward to the season.
5
Mere minutes (in TV time) after Jesus reminded Morgan that killing wasn't the way to settle things he sits, grinning inanely, in agreement with Maggie and Daryl in plotting the cold-blooded revenge killing of Negan. A snapshot of how the writing this season has badly let down the series and the fans.
18
Last night felt like a Series Finale not a season finale. Pretty much all the story lines were resolved. And the ones that weren't, such as the government ambassador with the helicopter, aren't very interesting. For those grown weary, this may be a good place to say goodbye.
For the forever fans, I think the internal conflicts brewing may keep them tuning in.
I'm unsure about myself. Is TWD over? Ask me in October.
8
I am very much interested in the helicopter.
11
Didn't you think it was an hallucination? I thought that was you.
2
Maggie, and, especially Darrell, plotting against Rick? Jesus just sitting there listening without comment? Jarringly out of character. A great example of how the writers have succeeded in destroying the heart of characters we have loved by using them for lame plot contrivances instead of allowing them to be driven by who they are. I used to be in the "if Daryl dies, we riot" camp but now could not care less. Which is astonishing. Ah, well.
21
Maggie & Darrell are plotting against Negan. They both have very personal reasons, along with Rosita who will likely join them, to hate him more than the others. Can't figure out why Jesus is in this group unless I missed something along the way.
Don't get me wrong, this show has gone on about 3 seasons too long & should have/could have ended in a 'New World' at Alexandria. This entire Negan plot line has been horrible. But, who thought show runners would even want a show about zombies to go on forever...
3
Well, I think they will be plotting against Rick and Michonne—Maggie said it so very menacingly, she might as well have been twisting a Snidley Whiplash mustache. And she very specifically said, and Michonne—like she believes Michonne is behind it all—whaaaa ha ha ha ha! It’s really stupid and contrived. I’m with you Jules—it defies all character development up to this point. I guess this is the “civil war” someone alluded to? (probably a graphic novel reader—thanks for the spoiler). Didn’t we just finish a kind of civil war?
That's the problem with civil wars: no off ramp.
I take back what I said about Eugene!
Also, very pleased that my favorite characters made it through the battle. Jerry and Ezekiel, especially. Wondering if we will see Dwight again-I certainly hope so.
10
Me too. Dwight has had an interesting journey
2
Thank you. He was scared out of his mind when he told Negan -- WHO HAD JUST GUTTED SPENCER -- that he was the bullet maker. He had no rational expectation of anything other than a death like Abraham's and Glenn's, which he had witnessed. The blood lust expressed toward human characters who display human frailties frightens me as much as anything that happens on the screen.
As a species, we don't have a lot to recommend us, which--of course--is a prominent theme of SF and its genre off shoots.
Personally, I’m done with TWD, this was the last episode I’ll watch. I started watching this show with my college-age sons, and it was just a fun show to watch. Then it was interesting to see how tribals groups formed themselves into communities. Now it’s simply stupid. Rick and his group never exhibit any common sense or learn from their mistakes - he led the whole band into yet another Negan ambush and they only survived because every cartridge manufactured by Eugene was defective. Yeah, right. Glenn and Carl are gone, which tore huge holes in the show. Now Jadis can summon someone in a helicopter? This show has jumped the zombie shark.
25
One of my favorite scenes ever, when Bond asks Goldfinger , as Bond is about to get sawed in half vertically, “what do you want me to do?”, and Goldfinger replies. “Why Mr Bond, I want you to die!!!”, reminded me of the response to, and non demise of Negan. Villain and Hero, too good to die.
2
Actually, it was, "No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die."
3
'You expect me to talk?'
'No, Mr Bond, I expect you to die.'
9
I liked how the foreshadowing of Rick crying under a stained glass window finally showed up. Good finale overall, left us with an upbeat feeling, and I think that might be as a nicety to those who don't want to watch anymore. It'd be possible to leave it here and go, they'll work things out, a new civilization will emerge from the ashes. No major characters even died this time, except for that Savior with blue hair that we'd never seen before and never will again. Still, he was the only guy with blue hair in the apocalypse.
Looking forward to FTWD a little more, the opening episode was quite entertaining. But I'm satisfied with the wrap-up to this season and I'll stick around for another.
13
I love a good Times review but mise-en-scène? Really?
4
How about schadenfreude?
1
"Schadenfreude" is a word you should know: particularly if you enjoy watching the audience as much as the show. It means taking pleasure in bad things happening to our rivals. If you are "human," you feel a little twinge of guilt when your rivals suffer their comeuppance, but it is so delicious.
"Mise-en-scene" as Rick suggests is a pretentious word that most honest writers can do without. It refers first to the setting ...
#1 is the theatre, with very few props and an open wall for the audience to stare at the actors: taking what is UNREAL and making the audience believe it is real.
#2 then came the movies and better cameras and the great debate about whether the panoramic views made possible MORE reality than "SHORT TAKES."
A. D. Jameson's Blog has a wonderful post summarizing #s1 and 2. He has some background in SF and I am really looking forward to his take 0n #3 ... which he hasn't addressed yet.
.
#3 science fiction and its off-shoot cousins begin with the certainty of UNREALITY. To write the opening scene, you ANNOUNCE (not conceal as surprise!) the genre expectations. Opening scenes in SF movies knock the socks right off your feet to show you something you've never seen before. They can do it with subtlety, but the socks knockers are what we live for. Remember 2001? Star Wars?
Remember TWD? First scene? Rick Grimes, Officer Friendly, shoots a child zombie. TWD breaks a taboo, and Lordy help us, we loved it. Season 8 "concludes" with a horde coming up the rise.
"the quietly poetic quality to the open field, the tree and the delicate stained-glass panes hanging from it evoke old samurai films."
And, closer to home, "An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge" - a French director captures the beauty and horrors of the American countryside.
6