Well said. A 'must read', but the President doesn't read and history betrays the fake 'reality' of US foreign policy.
The journalist H.L. Mencken said it 100 years ago: "The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it.”
US history is both undeniable and redundant.
The United States needs war to subsist. Another great writer, George Orwell, poignantly pointed out that "It does not matter whether the war is actually happening, and, since no decisive victory is possible, it does not matter whether the war is going badly. All that is needed is that a state of war should exist." 17 years!
Since it's founding in 1776, the US has been at war 93% of the time, 224 out of 241 years of existence.
Had there been no US intervention in the Middle East wars, there would have been no Al Qaeda, no 9/11, no Afghanistan, Iraq, IS, ISI, ISIL, Daesh, Syria, no Benghazi or Niger....
Since the War of 1812, with the exception of the Civil War, the US has been at the mall while the warriors are deployed in foreign lands doing the shoppers dirty work – the USA homeland unscathed!
US worried about nuclear weapons in North Korea and Iran? Hiroshima and Nagasaki 'who-done-it'.? America first–and only.
You appear to appreciate quotes, one more from Mark Twain: "God created war so that Americans would learn geography."
On 03-16-18 I became a CANADIAN citizen.
Everything's under control, no more shopping.
Thank you and good luck to you and your family!
4
Nice piece, Devil Dog.
16
These many years of horrific and mindless wars could not have been done with a drafted army. Only a mercenary cohort of professionals in the Pentagon could lead so many, so long "into the valley of Death" with nary a word from Congress.
Congress made them in 1973 and the Presidents have used them at will without protest.
So where are the citizens who ought to protest? It's their neighbor's son or daughter who is dying, so why should they care?
12
There are many ways to be a patriot and serve your country without being a soldier. If you care about making your country better, and if you use your time and skills to do so, then you are a patriot.
Right on.
19
Bring back the Draft or mandatory military service, It would make this country stronger and more Patriotic to the awareness of what being American is all about. Military service for all walks of life from the top down everyone.
13
Brilliant!!! Please keep educating us. Wonderful writing. We need you. And thank you.
7
Well said, sir! Thanks for your service and your continuing commitment to being a good citizen. I’m a former Marine and a “schoolteacher.” Neither one is easy. Semper fi!
13
I read an op-ed many years ago that said we should reinstate the draft, no deferments, no exceptions.
This would improve many aspects of american life -civics, leadership, firearms training, racial integration (one would hope) and most importantly, voting and involvement in our democratic system.
I’m sure there would be other issues created but overall an improvement.
Then there wouldn’t be a question if our representatives’ kids were in the armed forces because everyone’s kids would be.
13
I want to thank this gentleman for his article. As one who did not serve in the military, I can say for much of the past couple of decades or so, I have frequently felt a certain sense of subservience when it came to situations where one is tacitly compelled to "always speak positively for, and never question or cast doubt" when it came to matters involving the military or veterans. I do respect their service and commitment, but it is sometimes frustrating when there are questions to have addressed, yet some will instantly brand you "unpatriotic" simply for raising such questions. Thank you for putting into words those issues that I have had with this subject.
(p.s.: FWIW- I did apply to join the Navy as an Officer in my mid 20's, and was well into the application process, when a youthful indiscretion I committed in my teens caused my commission to be terminated.)
10
I really loved the points you bring up in this piece. As a civilian who is of the opinion that war should be as a last resort, though, I have to wonder if the phrase, "We're at war while America is at the mall," is actually still quite relevant. Are these wars really just defending a mall culture that believes military offenses are necessary for the defense of our global rights to excessive energy and natural resource use for our consumeristic society?
7
A well stated and long over due piece questioning America's state of endless war.
Two of our greatest president, Washington and Eisenhower, both also great military leaders, had the knowledge and experience to question foreign and military entanglements. Eisenhower is often credited with creating the term military-industrial complex.
Since 9/11 we have acquiesced into a blind acceptance of this "war on terror" which has our voluntary service men and women in every corner of the globe. And instead of drawing back from the limited triumphs (Iraq) and, even worse, failing to acknowledge the ongoing failures of some of our engagement (Afghanistan), we keep using our service people as cannon fodder like in a game of Risk for the mandarins of Washington DC.
Enough is enough. We need to draw back our troops from serving every skirmish and brushfire all over the globe when most are not in the strategic interest of America. We need to scale back the scope and reach of our military machine and the power of the military-industrial complex abroad and at home. We need to re-purpose those dollars to the needs at home.
Military might is still critical, but it is lessening in importance to cyber-threats and terrorist type actions.
The world has changed. America's political and military leaders need to recognize. America first - not adherence to cold war and geo-political fantasies of desk jockey warriors in Washington DC (read John Bolton).
7
I think its important to distinguish between a "voluntary" army and a professional army. Trump, inadvertently, expressed that distinction. "He knew what he was getting into."
I think the professional army is a major problem. The founders had a real fear of a standing army. The supporters of the constitution defended the creation of the standing national army by claiming that as long at the citizens collectively had more fire power than the standing army, they could preserve their freedom. The Second Amendment was passed in response to those fears.
When Lincoln fired General McClellen, he considered taking his army and marching on Washington. He was told that while the soldiers loved him, they loved their country more and would not follow him even if ordered.
Kelly comments ought to be understood in this context. If the military decided to march on Washington today, I suspect our professional soldiers would take orders and follow. If that is true, we no longer live in a free country. We are free only so long as we stay in our place.
13
Exceptional. Thank you Phil.
3
I was sitting on an exercise bike at the gym, watching TV, when I heard Trump, during the presidential campaign, say, (approximately quoted) "As everyone knows, Bush's invasion of Iraq completely destabilized the Middle East and allowed terrorists of every type to come flooding into the country."
Agree. Just goes to show that the "government" doesn't always know what's best. It's best to be an informed civilian before becoming fodder in an ill-conceived war.
4
An extremely thoughtful and well written essay. Mr. Klay raises points regarding our volunteer military and service that perhaps every American should consider.
I am a proud Army non combat veteran of the early to late 1980's. Like many, I grew up surrounded by veterans. Quite a few had seen combat and some bore both visible and unseen scars of that service.
To a man, they were all proud of their service, I respected it and never thought once of thanking them for it. Their obvious pride of service made my thanks feel unnecessary. I volunteered as many of them did, knew the risks as they did, and we all served in spite of them...or perhaps because of them.
It's only been in recent years that it's become de rigeur to personally thank active duty military and veterans for their service. Like most I suspect, I was surprised and grateful for the first few thanks. Following that, the thanks carried little more meaning than the expected West Coast refrain "have a nice day."
Let's thank our active duty military by providing budgets that offer good pay, benefits and living conditions for them and their families. Let's also make sure those budgets allow the purchase of good equipment, spare parts and the time to maintain readiness.
Our veterans should receive our thanks in another way. The VA should be funded, administered and receive oversight to make sure it delivers the very best health care to those who need.
Those are the best thanks any veteran could ask for.
22
The respect that is demanded for professional soldiers today is the same respect that was accorded to conscripted soldiers of the past who risked their lives without having volunteered. But there is a big difference between those who choose military life for a career (or an adventure) and those who do their duty after being called up because the nation is under attack.
Somehow, my admiration is much stronger for the draftees. And those draftees became heroes as necessary during the World Wars and the wars in the Cold War period, but they did not claim hero status themselves. They knew that military life was life in a huge bureaucracy and would have scoffed at anyone who would have given them blanket status as heroes. This was left to a new generation, brainwashed by politicians whose parents had enough connections to keep them out of harm's way. The most trigger-happy politicians never knew military life and therefore seem to have believed the propaganda of the war movies, sending people to die although they themselves had been unwilling to go when it would have been their turn.
Following such draft-dodging politicians, US society has decided to wrap itself in the flag and look the other way. Mr. Klay is trying to rectify the situation from the point of view of someone who was there. Thanks!
12
"We’re at war while America is at the mall" and the plutocrats are buying bigger yachts with their tax cuts, return on investments in military arms and high oil profits while those who cannot afford to shop at the mall work there for peanut shells discarded by their bosses.
Just look at how Cheney's baby - Halliburton - switched from predominantly the oil business to the privatization of military services with astronomical profits for its parent company - now in Dubai, U.A.E. - dodging taxes that paid for their services.
Bottom line is that Bush-Cheney and the Republicans wanted a scared (of "them") compliant population to exploit and did so by sacrificing American treasure in Iraq, of all places - all on the People's credit card. Never mind all those coffins returning from somewhere else and continue to search for bargains. Bargain indeed!
Bush-Cheney-trump all get to live the good life with impunity. The current trump wars are from the gut - indigestion and all - with no real thought. We The People (active duty military and veterans too) elected them, and so we are all fully responsible.
Once Mueller is done with trump, we can all tell trump that he “knew what he signed up for.”
8
The recurring argument is glossed over here as it is everywhere. The soldiers are definitely not over there so we can be free to do whatever it is we are doing here. Until a soldier, like this one in every other way, can see truth and admit that what they are doing there is fundamentally un American and damaging to America, this kind of fatuous appeal to civilians will continue no matter how untruthful it is.
It is not "mismanagement." It is immoral and un American. They are doing no "service." There is nothing to thank them for. They should stop it. This author like all the others just can't bring himself to say he was wrong. Sad. For all of us.
5
I've probably paid close to $1 million in taxes over my career, with much of it going to the military. That, alone, should legitimize my opinion.
8
I think our statements are legitimized by the extent to which they contribute to an understanding of an issue. Military service is irrelevant. So is an aversion to jail time for tax evasion.
The draft is inherently unfair. How can something be fair if one can be 'excused' because of having 'heal bone spurs' due to playing tennis while attending a private military school. Now that's a cosmic joke for you. Your child is drafted and dies in battle while Mr. Bone Spurs gets to be president and starts his own wars. Can it get any worse? That's a rhetorical question. Start a draft and one thing for sure they'll be a boom in tennis lessons.
4
Every thinking person knows that the constant, constant, wars this country has been entangled in for decades is directly attributable to the abolition of the draft and the establishment of an all-volunteer force. Most people have no skin in the game, and either ignore the wars or cheer service members as a sort of national sport team. The Founders were very suspicious of a permanent professional army for good reason.
And The Times is complicit in this mess: When will we see serious prominent comment, criticism, or analysis of our permanent bloated military-industrial system?
6
With our continuing headlong rush into total militarization (college basketball games played aboard naval warships - the new normal), we must hope that Phil Klay's two sons will not be fighting in what their father so aptly calls "a war that doesn't end". Time to replace "patriotic correctness" with moral awareness.
4
Well done on the writing and the thinking too. You are a better member of our species.
Thanks
6
Two soldiers die fighting on Omaha Beach on D-DAY, June 6th, 1944. Both receive the Bronze Star and Purple Heart. One was drafted into the US Army, the other volunteered.
Which man deserves more honor, and the thanks of his nation, for giving his life for his country?
Same question for Korea or Vietnam...
1
The United States has not fought in a just and necessary war since 1945. Enlistees should be required to review our military and political history since WWII; if they still want to join the U.S. Armed Forces after that they should be placed under psychiatric care. How tragic that for so many young Americans the only way to get an education and/or feed their families is to sell their souls to the war machine.
4
Americans should respect those who have or are serving in the military BUT it is not only their right but their duty to question military actions undertaken in their name.
I am a veteran who served in the evacuation of Vietnam & the Mayaguez operation. I always touch three names on The Wall when in DC. They were the last men killed in the Vietnam conflict & they & many others might be alive today if more people had raised more questions sooner about that misbegotten affair.
6
"Patriotic Correctness". What an awesome term! So accurate.
3
the graffiti from Vietnam:
"we are the unwilling'
led by the unskilled,
doing the impossible,
for the ungrateful."
Remember fellow citizens, this is a representative democracy where the military is supposedly controlled by civilian authority.
The first bit of TV I saw upon return stateside in 1972 was a commercial for White Cloud toilet paper amidst a war movie set in Burma starring Errol Flynn, sweating and flushed from drink, and filmed in a canyon of California.
And that is how relevant it has all been.
3
"...as recent history has shown us, violating the rules of patriotic correctness is a far worse sin in the eyes of the American public than sending soldiers to die uselessly,"
Amen, alleluia. If that ain't the truth.
How sick I am of the incessant displays of politically correct patriotism. The perverse displays of patriotic symbols, mostly cheap icons, that allegedly boast how extra patriotic the display'r is. Cars festooned with re-imagined flags, people wearing flag-ish clothing, overweight, unfit weekend biker dudes on their $30K Harleys, with their off the rack $30, "these colors don't run", "We the people", screaming eagle, sleeveless t's. Or the first stanza of the Pledge of Allegiance decals on the window of an oversized truck.
Really? What does that even mean? By displaying these things you're uber patriotic? And the rest of us need to know how pettily and cheaply you regard our national symbols. That you need to constantly drape your body (all your clothes need some form of a flag on them?) and vehicles in all manner of the flag, because you're what? More patriotic then the rest of us? That such a thing is even a thing, more-patriotic.
The rest of us who see the flag as not appropriate as a vehicle decoration. Not to be used to decorate clothing! Not to be demoted to what amounts to costume status - so the wearer/driver can make some absurd public statement about themselves.
Public displays of phony patriotism, brought to us by Wal-mart. Sick of it.
9
Our U.S. Military is comprehensive proof that SOCIALISM works! Soldiers are recruited, paid, educated, fed, clothed and cared for- cradle to grave [if that's what they choose]. All at taxpayer expense!
Why doesn't the U.S. military allow private citizens access to THEIR Hospitals? After all - we are the ones paying for it!
3
Around where I live, there are lots of counties with signs up that say "Entering xxx County. We Honor Veterans". If there is a single homeless, destitute, or ill veteran within their borders, they obviously don't.
3
Excellent article. It brings to mind an exchange I had back in the 2000’s. I was in a supermarket wearing a “Bush-as-war-criminal” T-shirt I had been given at some liberal Hollywood fundraising event. I hadn’t considered the effect the shirt might have in public, that morning it was just the shirt on top of the pile in the drawer. But in the produce aisle I ran into an extremely irate man of late middle age, who angrily berated me for my insouciance towards the Commander in Chief, and demanded to know what I had done for my country. I took one look at his reddened, alcohol-swollen face, and just pushed past him. But the encounter stuck with me. I was too young for Vietnam, to old for Desert Storm, there wasn’t a conflict I could have served in even if I had wanted to. But still the words still stung me, as though somehow I actually might be unworthy to wear that T-shirt. It wasn’t until much later that the response finally came to me.
I’ll tell you what I’m doing for my country: I work hard at my job, I pay all my taxes. I research and vote in every election, I serve on the board of a charter school. I pay close attention to governance, both national and local. I give and donate my time to multiple charities. I obey the law, and I am civil in all interchanges with my fellow citizens. And most of all, I am raising two educated, tolerant, aware children to be honorable, productive members of society. THAT’S what I’m doing for my country.
15
Yep, sure, national draft is the answer. Tell to the Russian, Turkish, or Syrian soldiers, where this is the case. Those countries’ societies certainly are deeply involved w/ their boys adventures in the world. The Army damages people’s’ psychics; it s that simple. You want the entire male populous of his country suffering from PTSD? Awesome, let’s do it!
1
My first husband, who volunteered for the Army, died in a car accident at Fort Ord in 1974. Our two sons were too young to remember him. Since he didn't die overseas, I guess we are not a Gold Star family, but believe me it hurt my sons just as much as it hurts anyone who loses a family member.
There was a time when soldiers thought what they were doing, fighting a war or trying to prevent one, allowed the rest of us to live normal lives, including shopping at a mall.
But sometime after we stopped the draft and made the military all volunteer, that changed. I hear resentment and anger because non-military families don't know the loss of a service member in their own family or circle of friends.
In an ideal world, none of us would know such losses to war. Meanwhile, perhaps we should find a better way to bridge the divide between our volunteers and those who do not and/or cannot volunteer.
3
Thank you for this important and timely message.
Which is the more important action of a good citizen?
A. Thanking a soldier for their service.
B. Voting.
2
My parents were alive during the depression and the Wars. They saved twine and metals. They worked jobs that supported "the War Effort." By doing this, every day, they had some sense that they were supporting the troops and thus bringing peace to the world.
And they were aghast at the number of dead bodies and destruction of war.
They truly understood the sacrifices of those who served and also those left behind to worry about their safety.
Now, we save no twine or metals. We go on about our lives without any inconvenience at all, while people die.
If we Americans could just come to understand more about the suffering of war everywhere, we would buy what need, size 3 months or 6, and then turn our attention to turning our Swords to Plough-shares.
I commend the author for such valuable military service, and also the very, very valuable service of being a good father.
I encourage people everywhere to place themselves in other's shoes, in other's lives, to come to understand the suffering of War the world over and work to end the needless destruction of lives.
It is just too convenient to wage war in this century. We are removed from the horrors too easily.
We must make ourselves watch the films of destruction and then wonder seriously: What if that were me? What if that happened in my country?
3
There was a reason the founders were suspicious of professional standing armies. America is a civilian democracy first and foremost. Ideally the military should be composed of civilians, called up only when war is necessary. Yes, with the complexity of today's military technology and the immediacy with which attacks can be mounted against us, we need a professional military always at the ready. But it's important not to think of soldiers as a special or different class of people. They are working men and women like other working men and women, and they choose their career willingly because they like what the job entails. Their jobs may be difficult and dangerous and certainly deserve respect. But choosing a military career in no way automatically makes you part of "America's best 1 percent" any more than being a doctor, a nurse, a teacher, a scientist, an engineer, a farmer, or a machine operator makes you better than anyone else. The military is necessary and valuable. But it's not more necessary or more valuable than everything else we do.
3
An excellent article. If you haven't read it, I'd also recommend Andrew Basevich's "The New American Militarism" as it expands on many similar themes.
4
The most important questions by anyone in the military, thinking of signing up, or at the mall is why are we going to war in the first place? The most important part a citizen, military or otherwise, can play is to demand accountability of the leaders advocating for war. Next,..Why do we need a large standing army, and what are we so afraid of?
I have no doubt there will plenty of volunteers if and when the circumstances require all good men, women, LGBT etc. to come to the aid of their country. But mandatory service makes sense as well. It can be for all ages and in many areas outside the military.
Then, best of all, since everyone will have served or be serving, there will no longer be a need to continually thank each other for service.
1
On target and well-said.
(Finally, something all-encompassing, thoughtful and finished!)
5
Interesting that most of those advocating for universal draft or national service seem to be older people who know just what the kids need to do. How ‘bout some skin in the game? I’m 58, a nurse, and I’m a lot wiser and more efficient than I was at 22. I’m a much better bet for national service now. I’m also much more likely to speak right up when my elected reps try nonsense. And as for the mortgage, the kids, the elderly parent, the other obligations...well, just like we would expect of the young folks, we know this obligation is coming up and we’ve got 3 decades to make contingency plans.
3
Yes, and a lot of us at 60 could use some government-provided medical and dental care, too. We'll spend a year in basic, I'd think. Though it might be harder to leave our civilian jobs if we have them and then be reemployed on our return. I guess we could move in with our kids if we have those. But no, we don't have decades to plan for it--unless you mean to lay this on today's youth. Seems to me they have enough worries without the draft waiting when they're old. Nope. Not a good plan.
2
An excellent idea. I am 54 and I am too ready to serve! Where do I sign up?
1
Btw, seriously, if you'd like to volunteer for service, many opportunities exist--especially for people with your skills. Many older people do--hope you'll join us!
2
Interesting essay by Phil Klay. Believe me, Phil, I volunteered in the Marines in Vietnam for four years. From then on, war fighters have always been at at war while America was at the mall. It's the guns and butter economy of Vietnam.
When we Marines intersected with the civilian population during that time, we accepted how well it was doing. Keep in mind that, if one was a young, civilian male then, it was hard to get a job with a 1A draft status. And, ironically, he probably couldn't get a job after he left the service.
I am old enough to have lived with relatives who served in WW II and in Korea. There was the dialog between them and the population, the dialog that you complain does not today exist. Back then, *everyone* knew a serviceman, if not several, who served. It was a part of life.
Today we have the voluntary force, which encourages that guns and butter economy. We make a lot of money; we spend a lot of money on military actions; it allows the population to ignore conveniently those military activities.
Look at what happened with the Iraq war. As a Vietnam veteran, I was flabbergasted that Bush and Cheney, two individuals who avoided service in Vietnam, would recreate Vietnam. A population that is alienated from the military mission allowed that war to happen.
We can't bring back the draft, and, therefore, we can have presidents who deploy our war fighters in obscure actions that the public ignores, and doesn't even understand.
8
I agree wholeheartedly. My status as a veteran of both Iraq and Afghanistan does not confer on me any sort of special status compared to others. It certainly does not make me more qualified to make decisions on military force or on foreign policy. The military has a narrow purpose that must always be bound by civilian command and control, and the very civilian cost-benefit-consequences calculus. I don't ask for any thanks, not do I really want it either. I served of my own volition, not to gain benefits or eternal gratitude. It is high time we stop our obligatory reverence for the military such as at sporting events. Lets revere each and every one of us as we struggle through life -- successes, failures, loves, and tragedies. We all have that in common.
25
I agree with you. I do think that those who did elect to serve for "benefits" (for instance, the GI Bill) still have served honorably and deserve the same respect. That said, those who cheerfully blurt out "thank you for your service" but vote for politicians who have little regard for service members make my skin crawl.
11
Excellent, thoughtful . . . should be required reading for every member of Congress. As a combat veteran of Viet Nam (and a draftee), and as a person, 50 years on, trying hard to be a good citizen of the US and the planet, I am struck by 3 points (elaborated on in other comments):
1. Instituting universal conscription (no buy/opt outs), which would include humanitarian service for those not needed in the military would dramatically curtail our current self-destructive decline into militarism, and authoritarianism.
2. It would likewise reverse the ascendancy of the military as a governing force, rather than a defender of our democratic republic.
3. "Patriotic correctness", is a description of an emerging political norm that enables, and disguises, our vulnerability to stumbling into fascism.
Thank you, Mr Klay!
19
Great piece. I'm buying your short story collection.
3
PK acknowledges that answering civilian questions about the “role of the armed services on Niger requires a complex sustained discussion” about “how America projects force around the world” then goes on to criticizing Gen. Kelly for essentially saying the same thing. I dont’t think anyone argues that civilian life should prevent a good citizen from having robust discussions about the role our military plays in the world. I believe that challenging the actions taken by the military with scant knowledge about the basis of its decisions is offensive to those who have risked their lives in service of mall shoppers.
1
With this comment, your proved that you missed the central point of the entire article. All Americans should feel free to comment on our military, whether others consider it informed or not. The marketplace of opinion is filled with disagreement that is its purpose. Every American has a stake in the actions of our military, whether they served or not.
6
I didn't get the same impression of Klay's criticism of Kelly. Kelly's refusal to take questions from those who didn't know a service member KIA shows that Kelly's has a measure of contempt for the press, and by extension, the citizens they are reporting to.
6
Thank you for this very important and timely essay. It raises crucial points about both military and civilian service in our republic, but it could only have been written by a veteran for reasons that are stated in the essay.
This isn't really the place for a political discussion, but it's at least a little ironic that we have a Commander-in-Chief who dodged military service and disparaged military leadership, but now delights in having generals as his subordinates and revels in military parades. I can't think of anything more disrespectful of the history of American military service.
More important though is Klay's call for civilians to understand more clearly the distinction between honoring military service and worshiping it abstractly, and for those who serve or are serving to more clearly understand that we are not a nation of served and not served, but rather are a nation of one still struggling to fulfill the dreams that sparked a revolution 240 years ago.
and that we should all
8
Ooppsss.. no edit button for a fragment that was to be deleted...
And our NATIONAL anthem becomes exclusively a military anthem, not saluting our country and its people and its ideals but only its soldiers. Thanks, Trump.
3
I attend and watch way too many American sporting events (aka the new opiate of the masses). It is the rare day when either before, during or after these events, fans are ordered – at the risk of being called unpatriotic or worse – to "support our troops".
But it is an even rarer day when we are asked to support our educators, our first responders, our elderly, our fast food workers, our construction workers, our garbage collectors, our surgeons, our trade unions, our legit journalists.
I get it. Our troops have been involved in a good war, a necessary war or two over the past 250 years. As a historian I also get the evils of a militaristic society. I get what happens when citizens are expected to blindly honor the military rather than the other way around.
And I also know that massive military budgets are just another way to transfer taxpayer money to billionaire industrialists who would never consider military service for them or their families and who view our troops as little more than their personal, expendable, security forces.
Thanks for the piece, Mr. Klay.
31
Couldn't agree more! While I respect veterans for their service, we need to remember that they all volunteered for the military and a great many spend their tours of duty at a desk, running a motor pool or in other mundane jobs far away from the risk of being killed or wounded in action.
Furthermore, this public worship of soldiers and veterans, ignores the reality that teachers, firefighters, government-employed meteorologists, diplomats, doctors, medical researchers and a wide variety of other public employees are also providing critical services to their country, without the benefit of free college or medical care in return.
My father was a teacher, as was my son (before he started a nonprofit that trains teachers in techniques to succeed in teaching reading to disadvantaged students. I could not be more proud of the path he has chosen to take, even though he'll never be recognized as a "hero" at some sporting event and has to buy his own health insurance.
9
an excellent insight that only can be acquired by someone who has served.
I have a son who chose the service for patriotic reasons. Our discussions are chilling because I know that he dislikes my criticism of the armed forces corporation.
The brass cares for the recruits, but often abandon them when it is politically correct. I agree with John Kelly characterization that "nothing is sacred" but would urge him to concede that it is so because we are repeatedly misled. At a time where America is looking to be competitive in the world, a draft though costly may be the best tool to have our youth learn to work as a team, become social, civil and humane advocates. It may even break the drug problem, and nurture American values.
Without our Veterans, where would we be?
2
I often wonder what would happen if there were not enough volunteers to allow our nation to engage in these military adventures. Would the draft be reinstated unquestioningly, or would we be forced to actually examine our goals and strategies throughout the world? Perhaps not serving is the patriotic thing to do if it could force a more honest appraisal of foreign policy.
"Patriotic correctness" stands in the way of recognizing our mistakes and is exploited by everyone from politicians to the NFL to war profiteers.
3
This Vietnam vet (11th Armored Cav, 69-70) thinks this is an outstanding summation of current issues among serving military, veterans, and civilians.
7
Excellent piece, el tee. Semper Fi.
4
If nobody in Amerika VOLUNTEERED for military there would be no wars .
The US obviously has the most defensible position of any first word power, sharing the continent with only two other nations that pose no threat.
At the Mall-
"Mall-aise"
www.efn.org/~hkrieger/mallaise.htm
Worthless sponge shopper having a military “conversation” continued- part two.
4) We supposedly fight winless wars to protect democracy, our way of life. I do honor soldiers willing to die for that.
And right now I Honor journalists refusing to parrot their corporate owners’ fake news mantras; journalists ferreting out Truth that really is. I Honor those taking a knee in,protest, those striking for livable wages, marching for sane gun laws.
My question, to all the generals- why aren’t YOU doing all these things?
And why aren’t you demanding a draft of computer experts to defend our internet, our infrastructure systems open to hacker attacks, standing guard over voting machines every step of their way to our polling places. Watching the vote count.
As for possibly guarding our borders- take a page from those student marchers- give us a military parade that demands Congress pass reasonable immigration laws- before you stand at the borders.
When I shop for my worthless sponge necessities, I don’t think of the military issues. Because Nobody listens. And when you do secret briefings, we can’t hear you. And it is past time that we demand to hear lots of options. You want a conversation- start it!
3
Kelly is an odious liar who uses the army as an excuse to shield his toxic behavior. There is nothing valorous about him. Given the preponderance of rape in the military and of commanders who protect rapists, no military person automatically gets my respect - they have to earn it. Serving in the army is a job, not a display of virtue.
5
Well said.
1
Please reprint in Stars and Stripes.
7
Remarkable that the highly opinionated General Kelly would choose to attach himself to the Administration of America's Libertine-in-Chief, who once outlandishly referred to avoiding sexually transmitted diseases as his "personal Vietnam". Then again, Kelly has repeatedly revealed himself in his recent White House civilian life to be unworthy of service in that particular "arena".
1
Over-glorification of the military, warfare and veterans is one of the most vile and untouchable evils in American culture.
5
Only to those who avoided Military service. Fundamentalist religion is totally evil as well as being silly.
1
Finally.
3
As a Vietnam era veteran (enlisted 1968) I would recommend that everyone reading this go to YOUTUBE & type in the 60s protest song "Universal Soldier". We really were the problem, always were the problem, remain the problem, & probably always will be the problem. As long as young people are gullible enough to be persuaded by jingoistic, hyper nationalism, "exclusiveness", & "exceptionalism", coupled by religious brain washing, the Universal Soldier , regardless of who he/she is fighting for is the problem & the only possible solution. As a member of the Vietnam Veterans Against The War (all war actually) I urge all young people to ignore politicians who are bought & sold like prostitutes by lobbyists for the military industrial corporate banking & foreign lobbyists & follow the mantra of the 60s-"Hell No We Won't Go". The real heroes the Vietnam War were the protestors NOT the village burning misguided warriors who came home dead, mutilated, suffering from PTSD & Agent Orange or are still missing where America wishes to build luxury hotels, realizing much too late how they were used, abused, & whose memory is being resurrected to promote further imperialist aggression.
5
Since the first Gulf war- I never once felt American troops were, "keeping me safe" from anything. U.S. troops chasing a goat herder in Tora Bora is somehow protecting me and my civil rights..? That's always been a stretch. Thanks for your service- but remember nobody forced you to join.
3
For folks like Gen. Kelly, I have three simple questions.
Who invented personal computing upon which the military developed its fighting prowess? Soldiers in Redmond, WA.?
Who invented the iPad that the USAF is using in its cockpit? Soldiers from Cupertino, CA.?
Who runs the schools, hospitals, neighborhood forestation, local police, the grocery stores, fix the roads? Soldiers station in each and every neighborhood in the US?
Before anyone discount the value of American civilians, one needs to answer these questions.
5
The Internet was initiated by DARPA, a DoD organization.
1
Thank you for commenting on something which a non-veteran such as myself, must address very carefully so as not to offend those who have served honorably.
Truman fired MacArthur for a reason.
On another, similar note;
Here in Texas, it's common to refer to anyone who has ever wore the uniform as a "hero" - automatically and by
order of the patriotic correctness police.
It's a custom which diminishes the deep appreciation we should all have for REAL heroes who in combat, bravely risk all to save lives, sometimes civilian lives, or hold a position against overwhelming numbers, or retrieve our wounded from danger, or suffer terribly in their service, such as POWs and MIAs and the greivously wounded.
While I'm forever grateful for anyone's honorable military service, labelling all service people as 'heroes' strikes me as disingenuous to everyone, but especially
degrading to the guys and gals who've truly earned that title by having given their all, and sometimes their own lives.
6
I have a friend who is Iranian, and fought in the Iran-Iraq war. When he came to the US, he would go to social events and hear conversations dominated by the topics of kids and sports and schools. He told me he said to himself, "why aren't they talking about more important things". Now he is a dad ... and he tells me at parties he now talks and kids and sports and things, and has the same level of concern as everyone else.
6
America and its patriotically correct worship of soldiering are strangely reminiscent of Germany before World War I. And it didn't end very well back then. It is illustrative of the problem that only a veteran would be patriotically allowed to publish a piece like this. Thanks for doing it. It is high time. I hope it is not too late.
6
Very well-written piece Mr. Klay.
War solves nothing. Just more killing of people since we, as a world society, have lost any respect for human life. Women need to change societal norms and get us off the constant war machine that exists worldwide. The men and women we send to war come back as shell of human beings because instinctively we cannot take another human's life and it damages people to their core. Horrific and barbaric. STOP the constant war/defense machine that kills our women and children and bankrupts our Country morally and financially! Our taxpayer monies are again being stolen for an inhumane agenda that only furthers the interests of a small percentage of warped men in this Country that put guns and money over people daily. RESIST! VOTE!
2
"“We did what we did so that you can be free to naïvely judge us, complain about the manner in which we kept you safe” "
I've often wondered at this argument.
First I would ask the war vet;
If you claim to have been defending our free speech rights, why are you complaining about it now?
Secondly;
Why did you fight for these rights if you didn't actually believe in them? Perhaps you shouldn't have enlisted at all.
Third;
It's a stretch to claim unequivocally that anything that happens in Niger or any other current conflict can actually affect our free speech rights or even keep us safer.
Fourth;
It's even arguable these secret brush wars, as well as the endless Iraq/Afg/Syria engagements are making less safe, not more safe.
Fifth;
It may be time to bring back the draft. This may be the only way to rip the morphine drip out of the arms of Americans and make them re-engage with the consequences of America's war machine on a personal level.
(Personal note: I sweated out the draft and got one in the mail, but had already signed up for three. I never saw combat.)
4
Thank you for this article. My husband, who served two tours in the army, and I both believe that ending the draft was a terrible mistake. It is why it is so easy for the overwhelming majority of Americans to "support our troops" and ignore the wars that are killing and maiming them.
4
Glad to see this as part of the public debate. Already sick about the trumpeted upcoming Fourth of July parade spectacle.
5
The soldiers on the ground are deserving of respect. The politicians and generals are worthy of contempt. The only war we have won since 1945 was against Grenda. Just send more troops to die, just drop more bombs, just kill more is the standard answer. Now, we are admittedly not even trying diplomacy as the administration eviserates the State Department. Oh the HORROR!
1
That the author and many commenters here feel the need to cite their military service is evidence of the sorry truth in this article.
4
I am proud that I served my country. I hold most draft dodgers in contempt. They try to rationalize their cowardice.
1
I am not a vet, but I have had the same thoughts with myself as you have so eloquently stated. I have often wondered why one can only be a patriot of one serves in the armed forces. Is not a reporter protecting the first amendment, or a lawyer who defends due process as much of a patriot as a soldier.
I have had to stay silent, but in the past few wars I could not agree that our soldiers were defending our freedom, I was as you put it free shopping in the mall. Instead we have sent many of our young people to wars, with unclear goals and objectives and faulty geo political purposes. Then we fail them when they return with inadequate services.
Thanks for writing this, I am glad you are at the mall and that you have 2kids.
5
Just so. The even larger point is that our military is best supported when the full range of civilian critique and understanding is available to its understanding of the ways, ends and means of its military mission.
1
I guess one aspect of “patriotic correctness” as you suggest, might be in thanking veterans for their service. I do thank you for that, as I do all veterans. But I also thank you for such a thoughtful and nuanced look at that service and for pointing out the potential danger to honest political discourse in elevating the warrior class as being above reproach.
1
As a Viet-Nam veteran and an autodidact student of American history I can say that the dichotomy isn’t new. From the Revolutionary War onwards to this day, the government makes promises that it often fails to keep. Yes, most Americans respect the military but when it comes time to serve in uniform, most Americans have “another agenda.” A very small percentage of Americans wear the uniform in their lives. That doesn’t make them bad or unpatriotic, only uninformed.
American citizens are not “the enemy” because America doesn’t have a permanent military class. Our military are all citizen-soldiers, even if they make the military their career. At some time every soldier gets promoted back to citizen. That is what our nation is all about. To be sure, we veterans have our issues with the nation and those issues are not resolved by somebody saying: ‘thank you for your service.” The VA needs to be fully staffed and funded, Veterans need to be seen as people, not backdrops for political advertisements, or seen as some kind of political statement. We also don’t need predators trying to get our VA dollars in exchange for some dubious services.
Americans have an historical relationship with the military that is strained. Perhaps that is the way it should be Athens and Sparta together – not identical but all part of the larger whole.
2
Well done. Good piece of journalism. It's probably time to bring back the draft, e.g., some form of compulsory univeral conscription. We need to take a fresh look at the pros and cons associated with the notion of an 'all volunteer' military, especially in light of our experiences over the past 40 plus years. Until citizens from all corners of our society are obliged to serve, there will be little incentive for the political classes and idealogues of all stripes to reign in the impulse to go war without first exhausting all other means of conflict resolution.
2
Thank you for this thoughtful and well reasoned article. And for your service.
One of the best I’ve read in a while.
1
I've been struck by how many of our national leaders evaded military service but are so insistent that we "take care of our veterans." Perhaps it is a guilt complex.
I have served my country in so many ways, some of it in safe situations, others in civilian "war zones". I worked and paid taxes for all my working years before retirement. I've saluted the flag and stood for the national anthem. And I've seethed a bit when I've watched others who served in non-combat situations in the military pretend that they are better Americans than those of us who have spent our whole lives building this country.
I've particularly seethed when men who dodged the draft now pretend to be such brave patriots.
5
Thank you sir for a most thoughtful article!
As a wounded veteran of Vietnam and now retired from the Army after 26 years of service, still 30 years later I am sick and tired of gratuitous “thank you for your service” comments. Sometimes I think I’m listening to a robot.
Military service is still one component of citizenship to our nation.
5
One of the most thoughtful, provocative and well-written opinion pieces I've ever read in the NYT. Thank you, Citizen Klay.
6
A beautifully balanced examination of the obligations that we, as Americans, share, as civilians or soldiers, and which of us has the right to question the motives and opinions on either side of the warrior-citizen divide.
The issues involved have become increasingly fraught since America's military role has evolved, from WWII until the present, into the protection of other peoples' rights, rather than a direct defense of homeland, and the actual rights of American citizens.
Sacrificing lives for abstract principles, or perceived "national interests" is harder to justify than repelling the barbarians at our gates. War has increasingly become a political tool, tarnishing some of the honor it was once accorded.
Embroiled in regional conflicts, we have become enmeshed in chronic forms of no-win combat, while ignoring the economic, intellectual and cyber rivalries that are actually shaping our world and its future. War as we have known it, is becoming obsolete, and our warriors with it.
2
What superb observation and writing. Timely and essential.
The expression "patriotic correctness" needs to be called out again and again and again, until it enters the American conscience in the same was "political correctness" has in recent years. If political correctness should not be allowed to shut down debate, then neither should patriotic correctness.
All too often, militaristic platitudes are used to shut down perfectly legitimate discourse. And whilst the debates are being silenced, civilian and military lives around the world are being cut short; grievances against America reinforced. These are *precisely* the debates we should be having at this time.
1
Thank you for the thoughtful piece Mr. Klay. I'm off to the mall - to buy "Redployment," your collection of short stories. The best way I can think of right now to thank you for your service.
3
Nailed it. Thank you for this thoughtful and clearly-stated position. I do think I have a right to get into a debate with a four-star general, and you have made it plain why that should be the case.
3
Thank you, Mr. Klay. Your essay should be required reading for every citizen; along with David Finkle's "Thank You For Your Service".
His book brings home how we, the people, outsource military actions to the all volunteer armed forces, without enough of us suffering the consequences.
I've always thought that were there a draft in 2003, we never would have invaded Iraq. Draft = instant anti-war movement. If we hadn't had one during Vietnam, hell, we'd probably still be there.
The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen armed forces, called up in time of need (hence the 2nd Amendment). They did not envision having the largest standing military in the world, deployed around the world in un-winnable conflicts.
While Finkle's book rightly identifies one disconnect, your essay rightly identifies its counterpart. There are many who are adamantly "anti-government" while being adamantly pro-military.
You can't GET more government than "G.I." Our military IS a "government program". Try telling one of these self-proclaimed patriots that and see how they react. It's as if one is separate from the other.
Political correctness and patriotic correctness both stifle debate. Thank you for rightly pointing out the pitfalls of the latter.
We MUST question our leaders, especially when it comes to military actions. We MUST question what our military proposes. It's not unpatriotic; in fact, it's our patriotic duty.
2
The all volunteer armed forces makes it so much easier to go-to-war without the draft. Often wondered if a 10% value added tax were required on ALL purchases when our armed forces went into harm’s way might slow down some military follies.
What a shame that this advice will not be followed. Pols (esp. republicans) will continue to glom onto the military, to suck the benefits out of faux patriotism. So, while this advice is being ignored, I'd like to add this to it. Knock off the "Thank you for your service," noise. It's as meaningful as "Have a nice day." I don't want people I don't know thanking me for doing something they know nothing about. Maybe I joined to keep from going to jail. Maybe I couldn't find a decent job. Maybe I joined because I was 18 and didn't know better. Thanking people for doing what they do is silly. It was made up to make civilians feel like they'd done something wrong. It was made up by pols trying to gain favor with a war loving populace.
3
Col. Jessup: Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know; that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, *saves lives*. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a *damn* what you think you are entitled to!
Though this was fiction, it almost perfectly captures the holier than thou attitude so prevalent.
Let us not forget he was arrested (and presumably convicted) for ordering The Code Red.
From a US Army Dental Corps officer who was castigated for only “preserving the biting strength of our combat troops” in South Carolina.
2
BRILLIANT ESSAY...BUT I think you could further your argument even more. If I'm correct that the crux of your argument is:
"It can be comforting to reverse the feelings of hopelessness and futility that come with fighting seemingly interminable, strategically dubious wars by enforcing a hierarchy of citizenship that puts the veteran and those close to him on top, and everyone else far, far below."
It is not just "comforting." It is an INTENTIONAL STRATEGY to create a culture of the "warrior caste" which makes war-making that much easier and cheaper to wage, not only in terms of suppressing civilian debate. But more importantly, it serves as a cheap form of "cultural capital" by which to "pay" soldiers -- raise the soldier onto a higher pedestal to squelch self-doubt about the military mission itself, and as a means to "underpay" our soldiers in areas that actually cost money. The cultural capital is paid by the country, in lieu of payments from the Pentagon, especially now that our soldiers often derive from an underclass.
4
I was a member of the of the all-volunteer military from 1979 to 1983. None of my peers ever thanked me for my service, most of which took place in the Far East. If they said anything at all, it was something along the lines of, "Gee, that must have sucked."
Which was fine by me. Collectively, I don't know what we should have been thanked for anyway. For bridging the hiatus between America's endless series of wars? For building bases in countries where we aren't wanted and staffing them with horny and ignorant teenagers with too much time on their hands? For taking the best land on Okinawa and turning it into a golf course for the air force?
There's a lot of talk these days about bringing back the draft. Maybe that would be for the best. A conscript military would certainly be more educated than the volunteer force I was part of. I recall that at our base library most books hadn't been checked out since the mid 70s, when the last draftees got out.
An honest draft--one devoid of deferments and bone spurs--would also force a policy discussion that's been completely lacking thus far. I don't imagine too many hedge fund managers are keen on sending their children off to Afghanistan.
If we are to ever to use our armed forces wisely, then more people need to know how they behave and what they stand for. Only firsthand experience can bring this knowledge.
7
Good job, Phil Klay. When I joined the Navy age 17 there was (supposedly) universal military commitment. Most in the Navy were serving to avoid being drafted into the Army. I came to believe that the draft is a good thing for the simple reason that it forces civilians into the military for long enough to understand the "military mindset" and the self-serving careerism that drives the professional military. I and many like me left the service grateful for the experience and training, but determined to oppose military intervention in civilian affairs, and to stand up for civilian control of the military.
We 'civilians' have a right to continue to criticize the hell out of our military because we pay their salaries and buy their boom-boom toys, often -- too often -- diverting the money from far more desperately needed projects and programs here at home where we are supposed to be enjoying 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness,' so the military can inflict -- on the 'enemy' and themselves -- death, imprisonment and 'flee for your lives.' Under the guise of 'protecting our freedoms,' the military these days does nothing but play soldier in sh*thole countries who need the foreign exchange. They are free to feel offended about civilian uncaring, but to quote their insanely incompetent draft-dodging commander in chief, "they knew what they were signing up for." Who can respect anyonewho volunteers for the military during the current administration -- or any of the last two for that matter -- who get us into endless wars in defense of corporate interests and oil oligarchs, killing countless 'military' personnel and innocent civilians in those sh*thole countries for zero benefit to the American people?
Consider that on 9-11 we lost some 2900 Americans in a terrorist attack on NYC. As a mark of our military stupidity we then proceeded to lose over 4,000 of our military in the Iraq War and thousands more in Afghanistan. If body count decides the winners and losers, our military is unquestionably a bunch of Losers. Bin Laden won, and is laughing in his grave.
4
Invading Iraq was Bush Cheney Neocon stupidity.
The Military said that occupation would take many thousands of troops and a long time.
1
One of the most thoughtful pieces I have read in a long time. Thank you Mr. Klay for your service but also for your thoughtfulness and willingness to share honestly and openly in a way that is productive and non-partisan. Have you considered running for office?
3
Thank you, sir, for your service to our Nation and for the service you have done by writing this piece. Beautifully stated. Perhaps just in the nick of time.
We have most certainly gone a lot further in the direction of a military empire than George Washington and his fellows imagined; what we have become is just what they feared.
We citizens have forgotten about the war because we are not asked to sacrifice, except for those few of US who send their children to fight it. And that is the danger of this empire mind set, We the People just let the military industrial complex go on about its business seemingly forgetting that its business is the blowing up of bombs and the firing of rifles and missiles so they can be paid to build more of them.
I have great love for the men and women who do our dirty work overseas; I have much less for those who promote unnecessary wars instead of seeking peaceful resolutions.
We have been at war in Afghanistan, Iraq, and now Syria for longer than we were at war during WWI and WWII and We the People have not been called to sacrifice, not even to pay more taxes to fight them.
This is one of many discussions we should be having as a Nation. Can we please start to have it?
Armies are the ultimate kiss-up kick-down pecking orders. To soldiers, "liberty" is being off-duty.
4
Thank you for your service. I too am a Vietnam era veteran but was fortunate enough to not go to Vietnam. When people thank me for my service I thank them and remind them I only went into the Army because I had to not because I wanted to go in. I feel more and more that we would have fewer wars and fewer soldiers deployed if we still actively had a draft. Americans would actually care about the wars if they had family members serving or knew members serving. Further it would make it harder for the politicians to send troops to far off places.
4
The giving the Executive Branch the ability to send our people into harm's way, considered congressional approval is the root of all this issue. This is not a Republican or Democratic party issue, it is an American issue. We condone across party lines, except when we choose to object. Do we always object as the Libertarians would, or do we only object when it is the other party doing it. Self righteous objections naming all the guilty in the other party lack sincerity.
I'll take the license you've granted civilians and offer my thoughts. I am largely in agreement with the sentiment that America was and is at the mall while others have served and continue to do so. I was always troubled as I read about the events in Afghanistan and then Iraq while most stateside would have trouble finding where these places are let alone try to understand what led us to why were where there. Divorced from the facts, many divorced from bothering to make a difference by voting and certainly divorced from the grief of being involved in combat.
Viet Nam was quite different - involvement among those stateside was much higher as so many more citizens were at risk of being drafted. On reflection, I think it's fair to say that that involvement and consequent pressure was a significant contributing factor in leading us out of that war. The same should have been true for the adventures in the Middle East and the draft would have made that difference. How do we leave that struggle to such a small portion of our society when so much was at stake? Hundreds of thousands of lives were lost including thousands of our own sons and daughters and an expenditure of wealth ($7-8 trillion) that will burden our children's children and likely beyond. This country needs a military draft so we are all invested in these weighty and terrible decisions. So yes, we were at the mall and should not have been.
4
Victory in Afghanistan is as elusive as victory in Vietnam ever was. It is amusing to read the general officer corps spouting platitudes about victory in SW Asia with no coherent objective or strategy in sight. Same a Vietnam. Everyone in charge in that era was decrying the press and public animus towards our war in SE Asia as if we we were not to believe our lying eyes. History repeats itself and Kelly has proven to have feet of clay no matter how great his personal sacrifice. And so it goes...again.
3
Nice essay. Too bad it was written by a Marine. He is a member of the military caste and so is entitled to his opinion and is entitled to voice it, with authority, in the public arena. A civilian would not be allowed to say such things without being openly and boldly criticized by those in the military that think they are the guardians of all things American, even the right to freedom of speech. I, and others, are continually attacked and criticized in these opinion forums and told to shut up because those who have not served are not entitled to an opinion, or certainly are not entitled to publicly voice it.
Soldiers are trained killers. Implicit in these admonitions to 'sit down and shut up' is the veiled threat that violence could and would be used to shut you up if you persist. I have seen many such threats openly stated.
Civilians have become outsiders, an 'other' to be despised and disregarded, an enemy. It's easier to kill such an enemy. What happened at Kent State is a good example. Some troops fired, others did not. There were officers who were just as horrified as anyone that soldiers had fired on civilian students. My Lai is another example. There are many.
4
Another article which IMOH supports re-institution of the draft. All men and women who benefit from living in arguably one of the greatest countries in the world should owe something for that privilege. 2 years of service in some capacity - military, teacher's corps, infrastructure re-development (think WPA), or other agency seems a small price to pay and would knit the country together for the "commen weal". ...and it just might keep us from being sent to war by those who have never had "skin in the game".
---a former FMF corpsman, RVN '67-'68.
5
amen!
1
John Kelly wrapping himself in the flag was intemperate, although my heart cries for him over the loss of his son.
The fact that the speech revealed him to be a liar and racist wiped out in minutes any respect I had awarded him for his service.
Military people are just people, as the author explains. Sometimes they aren't even very nice people.
7
Lovely essay with timely and provocative points.
6M onesies are bigger than 3-6 month onesies : )
3
Required reading. This is a clearly written, thoughtful essay. It recognizes the values that people need to cultivate to make their lives at home and at work and in their civic obligations "happy"......the pursuit of happiness which enriches and supports us all. Honestly, read this out loud at town meetings, school assemblies and political conventions.
2
I will gladly look past any resentments expressed by those with dirty boots, wet with salt spray, or snug in a cockpit far away in a war zone. From where they stand, sail, or fly, the world looks a lot different than from where I enjoy a much less life-threatening existence. But I can't do that for senior officials including folks like the President's chief of staff or spokesperson. Citizen of the Unites States: In this country, there's no greater title, no greater honor. It outranks all others. Our leaders are elected by the citizens, not Elect of God. Shame on those who forget that.
2
Thank you, Mr. Klay for your service, and perhaps more importantly, for this well-reasoned, well written piece. Keep it up! Oh, and another thing - don't worry about the onesies. They won't be in 'em long.
4
A remarkable essay. Where do we go from here? More writing is focused on both look back and looking forward in terms of long term and how we as americans process reality, often far removed from it. I hope this trend continues. How do we cut through the invisible wall of inability to process that which we cannot control, to arrive at some sort of collective voice in affecting the course of events that is more real -i-ty based, that increases our compassion and capacity to contribute rather than causes us more trips to the mall than necessary. How do we both recognize and celebrate real contributions of American commerce while giving us a seat at the table to enable us to eclipse the toxic corporate stronghold on our public consciousness?
2
The "government" tells us to shop and shut up.
The military tells us "You wouldn't understand".
( The "Mission"? never quite clear)
The churches provide the bodies for the uniforms.
Their Acolytes bully us into empty patriotism.
Taxpayers provide the $funds$ for weaponry.
All totally disconnected from rhyme, reason or truth....and each other. We are all doing what we are told to do here. We are playing our parts....Quite well, I might add
4
Good perspective that needs discussion. I respect the service of all current and former members of the military. However, it is the fundamental right of all Americans, as citizens, to raise their concerns about the use of our military power when that use seems to have on useful or explainable purpose. Questioning the continuation of the “endless war” policy of the last 15 years does not imply disrespect for those who serve. If anything, it expresses a reverence for them and a desire that their lives not be sacrificed for anything other than the most dire of circumstances.
3
Well said, sir.
(USARV 70-71)
3
It took me awhile to get it... as a Soldier, the public regarded me as a mascot, and not as a real-life person. Yes, a mascot, much like a high school or college mascot. Oh yeah, they'll come out and give you a hearty rah rah rah... but then like a high school mascot, you (the military) get set aside with no actual real and deeper meaning.
When mostly right-wing politicians use the military as a basis for moral authority in arguments -- but would never consider themselves or their family members serving -- That's pretty ugly. Condescending and patronizing.
When people refer to all service members as heroes.... that's offensive too -- to many of us who have thought about it. I served with plenty of dirtbags -- who there was nothing heroic about.
This article is very good and makes important points.
235
Great comment on an insightful article. I agree that members of the military should be respected for the work they’ve chosen do, but not worshipped. When we worship, we take things on faith, and may forget to ask or avoid asking questions.
Some people do see members of the military as heroes. You read stories about first-class seats given up to people in uniform, for example. I don’t know why—is it a remnant of the sentiment after WWII? Is it guilt, because so many of us don’t serve, but watch others go into battle? Do some of us just feel browbeaten by others who fervently support the military, for whatever reason?
It’s not uncommon to have the “hero” label attached to someone just because of the work they do—police officer, firefighter, soldier—to the point where it has started to lose its significance. Heroic acts now cover a large spectrum of human activity, some of it very generic.
But even true heroes are human, and as such, they are fallible. And we should keep that reality in mind in our discourse.
16
Just brilliant. Please write a book, sir. And let's all remember this essay when bloodthirsty vipers like John McCain, Lindsey Graham and Tom Cotton keep pounding the war drums and sending men like Mr. Klay to stick our American noses into places where they don't belong. May they all return home to shop for baby clothes.
1
Personally, I find the notion that civilians lack a basis to criticize military matters to be an obscene distortion of civic virtue. Since before the Cold War, Americans have had a tendency to silence the views of those who raise reasonable question about public policy as being somehow disloyal. In fact, it is those who perpetrate such accusations who lack loyalty to our fundamental political principles.
I say this from a particular point of view as the son of a military officer who contemplated eventual service himself...until Vietnam opened my eyes to the abuse of military power for political ends. Those involved - Johnson, Nixon, Kissinger, etc - never had their loyalty questioned, yet their motives were as base in many regards as any of those simply accused of such to the left of the center.
Silencing any but Pentagon-approved narratives as Gen. Kelly desires is a recipe for disastrous political interventions that have little relationship to national security. Afghanistan made a certain sense after 911, but the Iraq war was based on lies and only made a bad situation worse. As the veil of secrecy expands and the American people know less about what is really happening with the use of our military, the odds of repeating such counterproductive policy expands, exponentially so under the current DC regime.
9
Well, this worthless sponge does go to the mall, shopping, carrying on with those mundane tasks ( oldster versions of divining the secrets of onesies) of civilian life. Yes, I was surprised at having military forces in Niger, still wonder which parts of Syria extremists control, why we are still in Afghanistan and even considering talks with the Taliban....
Oh right- we need a “conversation” on military goals, methods, time frames. That would be right after our conversations on racism, police brutality, the environment/global warming, fossil fuels/renewables, infrastructure needs, fake news, hackable voting machines, Facebook’s future, Citizens United, artificial intelligence (aka corporations), ......
1) We fight winless wars all over creation because we know real wars will end with nuclear weapons.
2) We fight winless wars because the military, in all their secret briefings to the prez and Congress, don’t demand we sanction every nation that supports secret banking ties that finance terrorist groups, nations that support them.
3) We fight winless wars because despite China, Russia, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran parenting extremist groups, dictators, we still trade with them, have airline flights to them, exchange students with them.....talk diplomacy that never solves anything, and stay in a UN that just....sits there.
4) We fight winless wars so it isn’t OUR malls that are destroyed, gassed, while we sell assault weapons to any nut job that can get to a gun show.
4
Just to be precise, there will be no winners in a nuclear war either. Fallout makes that certain.
Fighting wars shouldn't be about "winning," a quite nebulous concept as it turns out if you look at the long term results of past wars, but about the necessities of national security. Unfortunately, national security has itself been subverted into near meaninglessness by political chicanery and the machinery of secrecy. It is what they say it is, more or less, for better or worse. This will only stop when Americans quit settling for blank checks like Gen. Kelly wishes we'd continue to send the Pentagon.
3
Well said.
1
Wonderful essay, Mr. Klay. Thank you for this gift.
First of all, thank you for your service Mr. Klay. We are fortunate to have you and other veterans at the mall with us. Too many others no longer have that opportunity.
Perhaps one of the first things we need to teach our children concerns the words of General Dwight Eisenhower: "beware of the military industrial complex".
It is important today for us to ask about the cost of 109 cruise missiles as well as the scope of cooperate profits being reaped by Trump's unscrupulous supporters. Those missiles now have to be replaced creating a corporate windfall for the complex Ike warned us to beware of.
While Democrats are hardly inculpable, it appears Republicans may be more closely tied to the corporate stalwarts of the M/I Complex. What did we really accomplish in Iraq beyond feeding "the machine"? What do we have to show for the largely failed wars since WWII beyond abhorrent corporate profits? Why have so many of our friends and acquaintances died or returned home severely impaired? These are the hard questions we have to teach our children to ask themselves so they can do more than just go shopping at the mall while our service men and women work the trenches of war.
2
I elected to serve when drafted in the stupid Vietnam war (giving up my deferment) because I believe you can not be American without serving your country. It is very sad that Veterans are not valued. Look at how poorly the Veterans Administration operates. By the way, when did Donald Trump serve his country in the Military?
This is the best - most thoughtful, free-ranging, and historical - opinion that I have read in years on war.
I will only offer a personal aside: As a 70-year-old woman I have found that everything that you point out that a man isn't allowed to bring up even if he is an ex-soldier, goes triple for a female.
A woman's opinion on where to spend that (almost) one trillion dollars given to "Defense" in this last budget round is not wanted, needed, allowed, respected or heard.
Even if she is wearing the uniform.... and, yes, I haven't forgotten that Captain Bonespurs blew off the mention of military rape during the campaign, by pointing out that when men and women get together.... that rape is "what happens". That's about what he said to the widow of the soldier killed in Niger.
Sadly, your comment is about 15-years too late for the "Yellowcake Wars" but I'm printing it out right now to go into a very slim folder named, "Essays/War".
You get a Gold Star today, Mr. Klay.... one of the old-fashioned kind that got licked and pasted on the top of your well-written paper.
My best to you and the family and, yes, you always buy the 6M.
5
Maybe it’s true or just obvious that in a time of betrayal, division and crisis the best is brought out of us, whatever the cost, but this is not just another time and this isn’t just another opinion. During my own service commitment and throughout my entire life, I have never heard or read a more truthful and accurate account of what patriotism means. Everything I was and have always hoped to become thanks you.
4
There is a formula to win all these wars we are fighting in the Middle East. Unfortunately our inability to implement it abroad reflects our inability to live by our own standards at home.
To WIN wars of ideas we need to forward the interests of all parties acting in good-faith, not just our interests. To win we need to be willing to pay for infrastructure, economic, and medical development; tools that help our allies maintain a stable government and forward our agenda by demonstrating our values through action AND rhetoric. We need to foster an independent and accurate press, one that is impartial without simply splitting the middle between the loudest extremes and one that does more than search for fault on all sides. We need to educate the populace on how civic engagement benefits all, both in terms of representation and stability. Finally, we need to educate others with concrete examples of success and struggles surrounding ideological, ethnic, and cultural diversity; a diverse population is not always a cohesive population, but it is strong and able.
It is damning of our place in our own history that we can't imagine engaging in such a program, such a "war," at home, let alone for the benefit of others. Given that reality, we will never win a war until we believe American stands for more than a strong military-industrial complex with for-profit healthcare and soon-to-be for-profit infrastructure grafted onto the sides.
4
Perhaps if the Executive and Military picked a war worth fighting, civilians will pay attention and get behind it. Then you wouldn't have ex-military feeling sorry for themselves when civilians don't feel their pain. I can say this from experience.
Unfortunately for the policy makers we have WWII as the gold standard for winning the backing of the civilians.
When they comingled Viet-Nam with WWII and Viet-Nam went bust, the citizens became immunized from paying attention. Then came the baby wars using the same old patriotic jargon (free Grenada!!). And don't forget being lied to, poorly I should add, about the Iraq War-that endless quagmire that keeps on destabilizing the Mid East. 20 years in Afghanistan? What for? The infrastructure supporting that mess is probably so ossified that half of the states would end up loosing a good chunck of their economies if that thing ended, not to mention the congresspeople loosing their financial backers.
So why should we care that you took incoming in some unknown place for some unknown reason while we browsed for new clothes But give us a good fascist dictator threatening a continent and we'll be there.
We have the largest and greatest military in the known universe. And sometimes boys want to just play with their toys. Endless practice can get pretty old.
Too bad that now the wild card is not the generals in Washington, but the guy who is supposed to be commanding our great military power with discretion.
3
We have been involved in some type of conflict except for maybe 5 years
Thank you for your citizen service.
"Which means that although it is my patriotic duty to afford men like John Kelly respect for his service, and for the grief he has endured as the father of a son who died for our country, that is not where my responsibility as a citizen ends."
Phil Klay gets it. Thanks Phil.
I have been an advocate for the possibility of military service for all young Americans because of the two years I spend in the Army and the "lifetime" I spent in 1967 on the ground in Vietnam. We don't need everyone, but I believe strongly that if there was a possibility that each of us could be put in harm’s way I think that is actually a good thing.
No exceptions. No deferments. No nothing. You get called, you go. Not just your neighbor's son or daughter. Your wealth, education or connections don't mean jack.
Let everyone and every family potentially have some skin in the game and they will in fact have skin in the game. Same for those posturing, saber rattling politicians. I’m betting this arrangement changes the conversation.
Besides, we are wearing our today’s armed forces.
148
I agree.
Even if one is not drafted, the mere possibility will focus the mind.
One of the cynical reasons for going all volunteer was indeed the fact the MIC knew it would politically disengage the vast majority of Americans from their own government's war actions.
8
Not everyone can serve in the military, e.g. there are fitness and disability issues. Also, our military leaders have said they prefer the volunteer army because they get more qualified and committed people. However, I absolutely support national service for everyone without exception as you say, which may take a variety of forms including service to underserved ommunities.
16
I would love that too because I could revisit my youth when I protested against the Vietnam war. Amazing how you could get 100k people in the streets before the internet and email. The draft did that. Supposedly, we were unpatriotic but it turned out that both LBJ and McNamara thought the war in Southeast Asia was unwinnable. If we draft every one then these wars that prop up the military industrial complex as described by Eisenhower, would become even more commonplace. War is a profit center for weapons producers who have well funded lobbiests.
8
Maybe I'll finally get my "US Civilian Retired" window decal.
2
Great writing,...And while we’re at it can we stop the NFL from glomming onto and using the military and faux patriotism to make even more of a profit. John Prine had it right. “ cause your flag decal won’t get you into heaven anymore. It’s already overcrowded from your dirty little wars”
5
In Vietnam we called the States "The land of the big PX". Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.
1
America is not at war.
Deciding that we can read minds is the mistake we all seem to make sooner or later.
Our emotional writer decides that John Kelly feels contempt? Because he comes down on the side of military families? Yes, we know you are writing in our age's Pravda, Phil Klay, but it doesn't mean that you just melt down into a seven-year-old blaming the folks for something going wrong.
While you were being agitated, the dominant media-entertainment culture in our country became decidedly ANTI-military family. This is a requirement of selling hatred for the country to progressive dolts. Hate-America is apparently the key to making sure the ignorant continue to Hate Trump.
Patriotism, intact families, normal sexuality, capitalism, and organized religion are all the enemy in this flatulent culture, and it is past time for the John Kellys to hold up their hand long enough to spend ONE event in support of these families.
They really didn't mean to send you into this reaction, Phil.
What a coincidence, I'm a former Marine and now a teacher.
I'm a veteran... and a civilian and at the end of the day when we take our uniforms off, so are we all, like it or not. Some of you detest our military actions. Fair enough, some of it's been tragic and I didn't know one Marine who was responsible for US foreign policy... at least until now. But while some of you hide it better, you're also sure you're better; smarter, more moral, than I and the men and women who I fought next to. This is no straw man argument, I love my students but their career goals are all UC Berkeley (or Stanford or Duke) and making a lot of money and for a few making the world a better place, but not the military. Heck, our 100 plus teacher staff has one vet, yours truly. You know who you are and the readership here has a far greater percentage than anyone is willing to admit. I've known some real warriors, above and beyond the stereotypes. They are rather few and far between and I'll admire them until I no longer draw breath. I know lots of civilians, they're my colleagues and friends. If us civilians would elect better leaders, you might find a lot more reasons to like the warriors. They just do what we tell them to do. PS the mall stinks, I shop at Smile.Amazon.
2
Support the troops? Avoid senseless wars.
4
"Poor thing, he's been duped into thinking that he is protecting my freedom by going into foreign countries and killing half a million civilians." (Iraq). That's what I usually think when I read about a soldier's experience. Or I think, "you knew what you signed up for -- free undergraduate degree, free medical school -- all to perpetuate this false truth." We need a universal draft, that includes ALL men and ALL women. Only then will these mass killings around the world by our "troops" stop. Only a universal draft will stop our young who have nothing to lose from losing their lives and their minds by fighting for whom?...the least respected people in our country -- Congress.
3
Well said. No one should be permitted to shield themselves with patriotic correctness when citizens question decisions that literally determine life and death.
3
War is always the result of failed deplomacy. Now that so many American oligarchs make riches off of war, we have them continuously.
America has learned to shrug them off and continue with their day.
3
"And if a military man tries to leverage the authority and respect he is afforded to voice contempt for a vast majority of Americans, if he tries to stifle their exercise of self-governance by telling them that to question the military strategy of our generals and our political leaders is a slight to our troops, it’s my patriotic duty to tell him to go pound sand."
This says it all. Thank you for writing this Mr. Klay.
2
Thank you for this thoughtful article: it's well written and says so much that's important and goes unsaid. It's become too easy to "support our troops" and ignore the politics and policy behind what we're asking them to do. My appreciation of the service of members of the military is not an endorsement of the (often misguided) foreign policy that puts them in harms way. A far more enlightened approach, in my opinion, would be to honor and appreciate (and fund) all who choose service as their vocation: soldiers; teachers; counselors; fire and police men and women; and so many others. And leave leave the politics out of it.
7
Thank you for writing this and expressing the need to question our military's operations overseas, and as a veteran, to point out that questioning or disagreeing with military policy or action is not the same as disrespecting our troops. The important discussion about what being "patriotic" means, and about the reasons and motives for our involvement in military operations around the world, has been very effectively stifled because the “pageantry of military worship” has become so prevalent in our society. Because of the fact that "those who question our military policy are put in their place more and more often," and that "serious discussion of foreign policy and the military’s role within it is often prohibited,” there’s a disconnectedness and a growing state of numbness about our military involvement overseas. Not paying attention and not questioning our government is not in our best interest and is not in line with being good citizens, and being rebuffed by those in our governement who wish to promote their own agenda in the name of national security is not patriotic.
7
A military is critical to the survival of a nation, but too much reverence for it is a dangerous thing. If opposition is shamed into silence, military conflicts grow unchecked until the only way to end is with the horrors we see constantly repeated in history. Political correctness — that’s perfect. I hope it makes people think.
2
Deterrence, not war, is the real reason for armies, but peace is bad for promotions and medals.
1
There are many ways to serve your country. I feel I am serving my country as a public school teacher. Civil servants feel just as under appreciated as military members often do, but if we express that, we are mocked as "feeding from the government trough." I respect the military members sacrifices, but I don't feel that entitles them to unquestionable loyalty.
9
Hey Phil
Did you actually serve in a Marine combat unit or in a combat zone?
Your discussion stealthy applauds your own service but does mention if you were keeping track of soldiers supply boots or if you were a member of a front line fighting forces. Only one out of seven veterans served on the front lines in actual combat. There are soldiers that served and then there are soldiers who fought.
1st Lt US Army
9th Inf 2/39th
BSM w/'v'device (3)
ASM (2)
Vietnamese Cross Gallantry w/ silver star
Combat Infantrymen badge CIB
1
My father asked me to respond to you after I read him the column and your response. He agrees with Phil Kay's column and has some choice comments to you. I will paraphrase as his actual comments would not be printable. He called your comments snarky (my phrasing) and that everyone who served should be applauded. Your attitude about whether another soldier is in support or combat is exactly the same us vs them attitude when it comes to the discussion about military policy.
Some history about my Dad. He was a bomber pilot in WWII. He fractured his neck in a training crash; spent 3 months recuperating and then went to Europe. He was shot down over Austria; fractured his skull during bailout and spent 18 months as a POW. Two other facts: 7 members of his crew were killed during the shoot down and his squadron (14 B-24s) suffered 100% casualties (lost 14 aircraft) in the four months from the time he joined the group until he was shot down. In comparison to my father you have no right to comment about this column, right?
2
Are we now to make distinctions even here? Would you have wanted to fight without your boots? "They also serve who only stand and wait."
1
He was a public affairs officer deployed to Anbar Province, in what he himself describes as a "mild deployment", but you could have looked that up. Instead, you chose to damn with innuendo someone who would have been just as dead in an attack on his base with or without front line experience. The lives of those soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen who do see combat depend on the ones who do not see combat. But you would already know that. You should probably sleep on whatever comment you have for those calling you out on yours, and see what you think about it tomorrow after you count your blessings. After all, remember, you came home alive form Vietnam, unlike many others.
2
Before I joined the military, I met a soldier on leave who was serving in what is now called “Special Operations,” and was returning to his duty in Viet Nam. I, along with everyone I knew of my age cohort, had not yet heard of Viet Nam. He enlightened me.
I joined the military, and served in “Special Operations.”
I developed some beliefs while serving in the military:
The government knows a lot more than do civilians. I had developed everything I thought or believed, in a vacuum of ignorance, not knowing all the hard realities.
My job was to serve, as the people who paid me dictated.
I was dead. It was only a matter of when, where and how it happened. My job was also to “Get over it” and “Soldier on.”
I believed and continue to believe I served to enable those with whom I disagreed, the idiots living and voting in my country, the draft dodgers, and everyone else to enjoy life unfettered.
Let them drink beer, have sex, advance as far as they can in school, live the best life they can manage, including going shopping.
23
Ever read the Pentagon Papers?
9
You have one thing right, your humanity died years ago in Vietnam.
11
My friends ARE having these discussions and asking these questions, just as we did fifty years ago. Our governmental leadership and the mainstream media are not. We need people like Mr. Klay to continue promoting and supporting public conversations about America’s projection of force around the world. We need them to run for office.
7
This is an incredibly important topic that needs far more attention. We're in the 15th year of the longest military campaign in US history. Adults now fighting that war have spent their entire cognitive lives not knowing the country at peace. Coupled with our collective (and rightful) guilt at how we treated Vietnam veterans, the respect we give to active duty and retired service men and women risks becoming reverence that puts all things military beyond reproach. From stadium flyovers to police forces armed and staffed with surplus equipment and former soldiers, we risk the militarization of society. Add the passions surrounding the Second Amendment and you've got a potent stew. It's a risky recipe that should give us pause, but as has happened all too often in history, the emotional attachment to all things military driven by feelings of patriotism can cloud the judgment that our founding fathers recognized as essential when they put the military under civilian control. It's time to recognize that the military is there to serve us, not the other way around.
9
Yes, we must be careful or we’ll have Roman-style military processions to showcase our might and glorify our conquests and plunder. While this is a bit tongue-in-cheek in reference to Mr Trump’s fascination with military parades, it is worrying how far we have swung toward the opposite pole from the 70s where we did a disservice to our vets. A national dialogue on this is needed. I too have had a conversation with vets who question the right of citizens to have worthy opinions if they have not served.
1
In Britain I am one of those civilians the military are said to hold in contempt for having never served. Do they ever really think about what people do. I am even worse I was a Civil Servant.
Lets put this in context. I am an engineer who as an apprentice made parts for the steering gear of an aircraft carrier and drew instrumentation for the testing of the first new 1950's style steam catapults. Later arranged production methods for gyro gunsight and later the Airpass radar for the Lightning fighter.
After joining the Civil Service I translated the ideas of the scientists in Institute of Aviation Medicine into hardware for their experiments. Moving on to arranging ground services for the Lightning fighter I was sent on to the RAF Stall College for their 1 year course. Problem solving at Fylingdales and nuclear bomber sites completed my contacts with the military. Without civilians they would be much worse off.
7
There's a lot of talk about the 'all volunteer' military. I teach in a college where recruiting tables in hallways are the norm. Any college student who needs financial aid to complete their education must register for military service. So for some is military service mandatory or voluntary?
8
I can't tell you how refreshing it is to hear Mr. Klay's perspective. Ever since 9/11 we have spent too much time worshiping the American soldier as some holier than thou being and by inference, any civilian as someone less than heroic. Fact is just being a soldier doesn't make one heroic and civilians can be just as brave and heroic as soldiers given the right circumstances. The Republican Party especially has pushed this false narrative in order to drive a wedge between Americans, which is their specialty. They should be ashamed of themselves (for this and a whole host of other nonsense). If you truly love this country as I do, it goes without saying that if needed I would sacrifice my life for my fellow Americans, whether I was a soldier or not. As a former Special Forces soldier in the 70's, I never thought of myself and being any better or worse than the average civilian. As a liberal, urban Democrat who has watched the Republican Party become the home to self-serving, cynical dotards, I hope the American heartland will eventually wake up and see that we have more in common than they realize, and it is the Republican Party that has created the false narrative that there is a huge divide between urban and rural communities when it comes to patriotism and self-sacrifice.
12
Having served in SAC during Vietnam, a brother, Marine Lt., in Vietnam, and a son a Recon Marine in the Gulf War, it is clear to me that Phil Klay misses the point of his own delusional, self-indulgence essay--his "patriotic duty" was to not serve the war-machine.
Klay is bit off the mark: His disdain should be for the Congress, not Kelly, that created our mercenary forces in 1973 and for the citizens now who willingly support it. By making an “all volunteer” Pentagon, they avoid the problem of explaining to parents why their sons and daughters are being drafted to die in foreign lands, which makes these horrific, endless wars possible.
If there were a draft today and all the kids were dying, not just the "volunteers", there would be no one at the "mall". Citizens by the thousands would be protesting on the Washington Mall to end these unconscionable and mindless wars that have gone on far too long.
Kelly is right to have disdain, even contempt, for those unwilling to sacrifice their sons and daughters to the state of war we find ourselves in today and have been since Bush-Cheney invaded Iraq with a deceptively insidious CIA lie and a nauseatingly compliant Congress and which could not have been done or sustained without a willing mercenary Pentagon.
Klay wasn't part of a "warrior caste", but rather an American mercenary and didn't even have a clue--"obscene and, frankly, part of the problem".
4
Best op ed I have read in a long time. Well done.
8
I'm a vet.
Soldiers are neither saints nor heroes nor superior citizens, but --- they serve(d).
Civilians who have not served, and who cynically send soldiers into harm's way are despicable and well deserving of the epithet - chicken-hawk.
I believe some form of draft, i.e., universal service, is required, and the biggest mistake we made was ending the draft. True, we thought it would help put an end to war, but we were very, very, and obviously wrong.
War is the failure of reason.
11
Thank you for your service as an astute patriot of all the American wars - the polarizing political correctness, and the never-ending deception of war for our protection.
5
This ought to be required reading for all of us who call this country home.
6
Our Brave military people are being maimed and killed in a war that is meaningless to American Security. We are in a War in Iraq and Afghanistan because two draft dodgers, George Bush and Dick Cheney wanted a war to distract the people from their destructive domestic policy. Neither Iraq not Afghanistan were or are a threat to the United States. ISIS Ans the 911 terrorists had nothing to do with either country. I don't faulty our servicemen and women but they were sold a fake narrative. they have been fooled and sacrifices by a lot of "Chicken Hawks." Service men and women are not being betrayed by the people but by the government. Phil McKay needs to revise his piece to criticize the Government, not the citizens.
2
He did not criticize citizens.
1
“There’s something bizarre about being a veteran of a war that doesn’t end, in a country that doesn’t pay attention.” Broaden the scope of inquiry further, and ask when this hasn’t been true since the end of WWII? Over the past 70+ years, there have been a few lapses of euphoria, when we had the audacity to think a perpetual war footing should no longer be required. There is an important difference between operational readiness and active engagement, yet we as a nation have long lost the ability to distinguish between the two. It isn’t hard to make the case that Cold War actions directly led to the debacles we have struggled with since, including the rise of the Taliban, Al-Qaeda et al, and the dissolution of former Cold War pawn governments in the Levant. Charlie Wilson's war is merely evidence of the larger war that never ends, and of the country which doesn’t pay attention. Perhaps something like 9/11 stirs us briefly, but we settle back into the boiling pot in short order.
As a similarly-minded veteran, I fully understood “that my youthful contempt for the civilians back home was not just misplaced, but obscene and, frankly, part of the problem.” Yet there is also a difference between the arrogance of youth, and the continued embitterment displayed by those old enough to have learned better. It seems many people never progress far beyond the grade-school playground, and unfortunately this mindset pervades the actions of those who strive to drive the wedge deeper.
4
Erik,
Try being a veteran of the Cold War only.
Never a shot fired in anger.
Yet served long enough as operations to retire.
Never a shot in anger made.
Thank you, Mr. Klay, for the illuminating and much-needed essay.
If it is true that General Kelly has nothing but contempt for those who did not serve in the military but who nonetheless dare to offer an opinion on military policy, I wonder what he thinks of those conservatives, with the honorable exception of John McCain -- people like Dick Cheney, George W. Bush, Mitt Romney, John Bolton, Donald Trump, and many others -- who managed to avoid the battlefield when the Vietnam war was raging but who have never hesitated to send other people and other people's children off to die in god-forsaken wars. General Kelly?
11
Thank you for this much-needed piece. A Vietnam War bet once told me that anyone who didn’t serve in the war had no business asking about it. What a bunch of hogwash. The war was our country’s war, not just the soldiers’ war, and to not ask or care or try to understand it is a dereliction of a citizen’s duty to participate in our self-government.
15
This is a must-read for everyone everywhere. The writer neatly dissects and brings out the distinction between political correctness and patriotic correctness.
The notion that serving in the military makes that person untouchable and above reproach is a trope used by right-wingers who, at the same time, find fault with liberal for their political correctness, even as they advance their own patriotic correctness.
8
It's natural for young men risking their lives to criticize the citizenry for "shopping at the mall". What they fail to see is that they are patrons of the same capitalist enterprise; they "shop" at the Mall of War, consuming bullets, bombs and human decency.
If these folks want to feel more appreciated, they should petition their employers on Wall Street for satisfaction; good luck with that!
7
You’re told what you are told so that you keep the mission. If the mission is to free millions of Jews, then that is what you are told and you believe it. If the mission is to stop the encroachment of communism which subjected millions to torture and premature death, then that is what you are told to justify your presence in Asia.
What was used for our battles since 1992? Fighting for our freedom. That’s a difficult sell when most Americans walk around completely free and travel worldwide completely free. So instead, the message had to become that those who serve in the military are strong, while those who don’t shop at the mall. The result was what the author describes....unwarranted bravado, fake platitudes.
It’s one of the dilemmas a standing military has during “peacetime”...How to motivate those who volunteer to serve. The best motivation for our troops would be to serve in a war that was clearly worth fighting, not one based on an ambiguous phrase.
8
John Kelley’s “patrioticly correct” rant is a perfect example of why generals, or any military officer, should not be in senior, civilian government positions. Using false measures of patriotism to demean and coerce others is the antithesis of a democratically elected government. And it’s especially dangerous with a bully as the so-called commander in chief.
21
Americans need to focus their efforts on striving for what was once called These United States.
Today, it feels much more like The United States, or more to point, an Inglorious Untied States. Inglorious here meaning, "(of an action or situation) causing shame or a loss of honor"
2
"Thank you for your service." "I support the troops." "These colors don't run." "If you ain't with us, you're against us." Blah, blah, blah, blah.
Americans are great at plastering all of these meaningless slogans on their trucks, houses and business marquees. But when it comes to questioning their fundamental truth, all one gets is empty rhetoric and nationalistic, bullying responses. Then there's the fact that individuals volunteer to be in the service in today's America. They do so not because there are real, substantive threats to "the homeland" but because going into the military is the only real jobs-creation program Republicans can come up with. There always seems to be money (our tax dollars) available to train killers and purchase needless equipment for troops (or even worse, "private contractors). But, ask for money for the schools or infrastructure or training programs and, well, this is all just liberal "welfare" spending.
As others have suggested on this thread: Reinstate the draft, force every family with children to put "skin in the game."
11
Mr. Klay this is an important piece of writing. To point out the easy political correctness of a group who always sneer at the political correctness of the left was refreshing to read. While respecting retired Gen. Kelly you pointed to some of his hypocrisy. He works for a man who avoided service to his country because of bone spurs during the Vietnam War. I am of the Vietnam generation where returning veterans were often treated terribly, but those of us against the war were right despite the assurances of Gen. Westmorland and President Johnson that we were 'winning'. The two presidential candidates who served in Vietnam. Al Gore and John Kerry, were never honored for their service. As President Trump said of prisoner of war John McCain he doesn't like losers and American doesn't like loosing wars. So here goes Gen. Kelly telling us we are winning in Afghanistan when no one has ever won in Afghanistan. Meanwhile former President George W. Bush is busy painting actually quite nice portraits of veterans as his redemption. I would like to see him humble himself by admitting that engaging in a preemptive war in Iraq was a tragic mistake. As a woman in the Vietnam era I never had to worry about being drafted (whew), but I paid attention and still try to be informed about all things military. I am reading a memoir by Iraq veteran Matt Young called "Eat The Apple"...interesting.
5
In the book “A Prayer for Owen Meaney” by John Irving, one of the characters states that a military draft is needed because it is the only way Americans will pay attention to foreign policy. He’s right.
7
Well written piece. I too am a Marine Vet who served in Gulf War one. I also wonder often why are we always at war? No other advanced country in the world is at war as much as we are. I think America should question these actions. Is Afghanistan even winnable? If not, why the heck are we still there? I understand that we have a responsibility to the countries we tear up but they have to want the help. Is it really disrespectful to servicemen and servicewomen to ask why they are being sacrificed? We need to get out of this endless cycle of war.
189
I am a Vietnam vet, and a Desert Shield/Storm vet, and an OIF vet, so let me respond to this, “No other advanced country in the world is at war as much as we are.“
They don’t have to because, with a small handful of exceptions, we do this for them. We aren’t always smart about it, but it saves the rest of the so-called “Free World” a lot of inconvenience.
7
So why do you still do it ?
We are in eternal, everlasting wars because war generates wealth for armament industrialists and their stake holders.
Fixed wing fighter planes, transport planes. Helicopters. Tanks. APCs. Guns of all sorts. Ammunition. Bombs. Grenades. Grenade launchers. Let me count the ways to kill all living things, including our kids.
Armaments for us and our partners. Oops, the armaments just got intercepted by our enemies, including ISIS. No matter, we will manufacture more. And we will manufacture more for the NRA at home. Eternal consumption of guns for the eternal war.
12
Couldn't agree more, but I have one crucial thing to add: no one ever talks about what we do to the people we are "rescuing" in these wars. In our patriotic correctness, it is taboo to mention the other guy, and that's not because he's the "bad guy," it's because he is himself caught between reactionary forces in his own country, corrupt politicians there, and an American military that reigns terror on his family. (Read Jeremy Scahill.) History will judge Americans of the early 21st century harshly for not insisting on policies that really do respect the other peoples of the world, instead of just upping the stock value of our armaments industry.
5
This brings up my pet peeve is when liberals start talking about "free college".
Bring back the draft but make it truly universal. I believe, very strongly, that every high school graduate be required to serve 2 years and recompensed with a year of free education at a state college for every year of service to every service person.
The military should get the "pick of the litter", the best & brightest, for those willing. But every high school graduate needs the opportunity and the obligation to give back some of what they have been given and take for granted.
The Peace Corp, AmeriCorp, VISTA, service in public schools & parks & conservation, and service in qualifying non-profits that help others would teach American youngsters something they can't learn any other way about their world & nation.
The best thing about the draft in the mid-20th century is that rich, poor, white, black, south, east, north & west all ended up together in one place together feeling "American".
It would be expensive but worth it. The character of a democracy & citizenships demands us to stop treating young people like pampered brats and start expecting them to take their place as citizens & real patriots.
And no "bone spur deferrals" allowed.
6
This piece provides very powerful context and perspective on warriors in the age of our bone spur military draft dodging golfing President. Trump fancies himself a warrior by tongue and tweeting.
Every member of every branch of our divided limited power constitutional American republic is our hired help. We the American people are the ultimate sovereigns when it comes to governing. Including determining war and peace.
Since 9/11/01 about 0.75% of Americans have volunteered to wear the military uniform of any American armed force. While we spend as much on our military as the next eight nations combined including 9x Russia and 3x China military victory has been elusive.
Congress has failed to check the President. We do not make our representatives debate and declare and pay for our wars.
We don't see the coffins nor the broken bodies and minds that come from war. We play at being patriots by singing the National Anthem at sporting events.
We need more diplomats.
5
…bizarre about being a veteran…in a country that doesn’t pay attention...
It is absolutely bizarre. It was planned that way. They, the Bush administration, wanted us not to pay attention.
They wanted to “savage” them, the 9/11 offenders under cover of blind trust, without a plan. They did not want the death, destruction, and horror of war violence shown on the news every night like it was during Vietnam. They didn't want the soldiers coming home in boxes, being unloaded off cargo planes greeted by grieving throngs and cameras to be displayed and counted on the news every night.
They set it up this way, so we (America) could simultaneously have the good free life, free of the fear of terror at home, while railing with anger and of fear of them. Then sell that our leaders would ‘take care of us’ in this forever war. Don’t you worry you little heads; just keep going to the mall, and if you see something say something.
As such the powers could get away with almost anything. And then they made a business out of it. Creating appeal for a ‘volunteer’ army for which the underprivileged are recruited; and keep people working with the huge ongoing military need, keeping us at the same time fearful, but ‘safe’.
Of course, it’s not quite as simplistic as that, but that was the premise. That we would become inured to it. That we would stop paying attention, that we would shop, keep the economy and the importance of ‘having stuff’ going. And we fell for it.
3
Bravo for a such a well crafted description of a situation far too few understand. I for some time have been troubled by the whole "our troops are more sacred than anyone else" attitude that pervades our discourse. Of course we we support these men and women, including those who deliberately send our young men and women into harm's way (yes Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Trump and Bolton, I'm talking about you guys).
As Mr. Klay writes, the real horror is conveniently disguised when the military action is shipped overseas. He's right; people stop paying attention and worst of all, it causes us to lose our sense of humanity. The catastrophic loss of innocent men, women and children is inexcusable and that our country refuses to help the refugees out of some xenophobic fear is unforgivable.
This should be required reading for every American of every age in this country right now, today.
3
It's all part of our "life as a reality show" culture.
In the background the people who pull the strings remain apart and unscathed.
In the foreground the rest of us pay. On one level or another we pay.
Bread and Circuses.
2
Thank you for saying things I have felt for so long, while feeling alone in them.
As a man who has, for the most part, singly raised six children on his own, including two in diapers, who paid for their college get educations, their health care, their weddings, and has done so by year after year of 60 plus hour work weeks, paying hard to believe amounts of taxes along the way, I have long felt that my service, very different from from that of the kids at the point of the spear, was never recognized. We back home are fighting battles every day that are every bit as important as the soldier's.
It was so very frustrating watching Kelly and White House press persons wrap themselves around the flag and condemning those who dare to question - denying the validity of any other voice, including those that more closely stand in my place in life.
The uniform itself has become a false flag, I am afraid.
7
Thank goodness for the free and the brave who mindlessly join the military because the Malls are mostly safe in the USA. Seems as good a reason to join as any other cause, if you're willing to ask no question and therefore get no lies about your orders to invade and make war. Young people are needed to serve obediently, honorably. The Malls need to be safe and sedate. I applaud you young people and please join today.
2
America has been in almost continuous wars (or military actions) since the end of WWII. Since the end of the Vietnam War, the reasons for those near-continuous military actions has become vaguer and vaguer. I believe the reason for this is the end of the draft. Since that end, few American families have a stake in our military conflicts. And with no personal stake in these conflicts, they become more like abstract and obscure political battles over, say, some FCC ruling, or SESTA (look it up). That concerns me...how? I have no personal stake in Afghanistan. Or in Niger. Or in Syria. My opinion about these places is of interest to no one. The Administration doesn't care much about what Congress has to say, either. So these (and more, of course) are just obscure battles in obscure places involving no one I know and neither I nor my family members who have not volunteered for service have even the slightest relationship to these battles and deaths (including injuries). They may as well just be movies on Netflix or Tubi. Boring. Look at another film instead.
So to me the basic problem is our citizens (and their representatives) are for the most part very distant from military action. Our opinions do not count. I'm sure that's how the Government likes it, the people like it, our representatives like it and most likely that's how it will stay.
1
Well, here we go again. How many maimed, killed or coming home to suicide 'hero warriors' do we want from this latest military adventure? Korea, Vietnam, Iran, Afghanistan wars have taught us and gained us nothing. They were all based on lies, misconceptions or the ego fantasies of one or another of our ‘great leaders’. Those who don’t learn from history are bound to repeat it. And boy, do we ever. But I guess that’s what a failed species is bound to do. That leaves the old fallback plan 'B'… pray. However, pray to which deity? Certainly not the one who created such a mess and failure as us humans. That deity hit the road many, many years ago and moved on to another universe to try again. Lots of luck, hopefully having seen the errors it made with us and it will do better with its next creation. As for us, out 'great leaders', will see to it that we will soon be gone. More war for everyone. Whoopee.
1
Bravo Mr. Klay. A brilliant, nuanced, but forceful essay on military/civilian relations. Easily the best I've read.
When the Star Spangled Banner is played at sporting events, we all feel the flush of patriotic pride. Looking out over the crowds, no one can differentiate Democrats from Republicans. When I volunteered to do disaster rescue in the South (Louisiana and Texas), I didn't ask, nor was it possible to pin "right" or "left" labels on anyone.
But discuss gun violence, freedom of speech, or ANY topic today, and it instantly becomes clear who are trump supporters. Without shame, they will drop into patriotic correctness at a moments notice - it's the nuclear option in any debate whether or not they served. If it can be used as a cudgel, well then the right shamelessly plays their form of identity politics.
It's all they've got and is a fingernail grasp onto the cornice of modern political life. Their party is morally, ethically bankrupt and without principle, and it's hitched to a *leader* who is a vacuous cretin. Fox tells them their lives were "disasters" under Obama and now are suffering under the "deep state", and so they reach for the emergency fire hose to quench all debate - the depth and venom of their patriotic addiction.
It's disgusting, but entirely predictable.
Patriotism has nothing to do with large flag pins or stars and stripes boxer shorts. Serve your country, in various ways, by making it a better place to live for future generations.
3
When I was in boot camp, admittedly a long time ago, the drill instructors referred to the "others" out there as "slimy civilians". We, on the other hand, were going to be Marines, some special class of uber-warriors.
The attitude about civilians lasted until I got out of boot camp and got to spend a week with my family and friends. I was still a Marine, but civilians were not slimy. Fortunately for me, I was not deployed to combat, so my hitch was much easier than those who were.
Now it's 40 years later, and I can hardly believe that I did it, but I have the memories and the DD214 to prove it. It's a strange juxtaposition between those who have seen the elephant, those who have served but have not, and those who have never been in the military.
I do wish we'd get over these endless wars, let more of the world take care of itself, and use our military much more judiciously. But war and preparation for war seem to be an integral part of the world's economy, and if we stopped doing it, the unemployment rate would soar. That is the uber-problem for us and the rest of the world to solve, and until we/they do so, it's war or depression.
The future's not looking good for us naked apes.
1
The important part of this message is: “use our military much more judiciously. Know about it . Think about it .”
Total respect. Thank you sir, for both your service and your profound wisdom.
2
This is more of an indictment of the nightly news. Although we don't miss the content of Walter Cronkite's nightly broadcasts, we certainly miss an intelligent reporting of our connection with the World.
And now that there's the chance to report on devious sexual patterns of our Commander-in-Chief -- which are seemingly endless -- all bets are off on reporting about much else.
Are journalists & broadcasters lazy, puerile or shallow? Or are they following the marching orders of syndicates like Sinclair? But even my usual fare on MSNBC seems to neglect the many issues important to all of us. Only John Oliver is refreshing.
1
Having spent 18 months of my life in Iraq I have to admit that I have used "Patriotic Correctness" to my advantage, but not to justify a conservative agenda. I have used it instead to shut down overzealous conservatives who tried to imply my political opinions were un-American or otherwise invalid.
Nothing will close the mouth of a hawkish never-served conservative faster than informing them that, unlike them, I have actually served at war.
The next question by the boldest is then "What... with some real-echelon Fobbit unit I bet" at which point I mention that I served with the Airborne Infantry during the surge, that 19 of my brothers didn't make it back, and I had an terrorist 120 mm mortar round explode a foot from my head near Fallujah. The round killed a young Soldier only an arms length away from me and I walked away mostly unscathed.
Now, to the authors point ... I should not have to defend my patriotism, but neither should someone who has never served. Everyone should be free to question their government and probably should have this administration under a lamp in an interrogation room if they have even a shred of patriotic love for this country or care about not living in a fascist state with a draft-dodging dictator at the helm. I served first and foremost in support of an America with civil rights.
That said, until they stop questioning my validity, and actual start placing integrity over tribal loyalty, I will keep shaming them with my combat service.
8
If poor folks would stop volunteering these wars would go away. those with any resources are not going to send their kids but they will swear your kids a hero, isn't that enough?
1
I appreciate the author's insights, and I would like to add something.
One of the biggest problems afflicting the country and the military is a do-nothing Congress willing to abdicate its war powers to the president. Since the '80s, presidents have taken the lead on military actions while Congress dithered, too afraid to take a stand one way or the other and all too happy to point fingers or offer pats on the back, depending on which way the conflict went. Congress doesn't want to do anything, thus avoiding a record to stand on and a primary challenge.
Trump's actions in Syria this week are just another installment in this pathetic and dangerous saga. No plan, just bravado and, as the author says, patriotic correctness.
I live the consequences of Congressional inaction and presidential folly every day. My husband is disabled as a result of his service in Afghanistan. He missed three years of our son's life; the kid has the problems that go along with that.
Spare us the gratitude for our service. If you are truly grateful, do something to stop these endless conflicts by holding our leaders accountable. Let them know that you won't tolerate their playing politics with anyone's life.
2
Hope many will hear you, simply well put, thank you
The latest federal budget included an increase in military spending that is larger than the total military budget of Russia.
There was no national discussion why this is necessary, how the money is spent and how it affects service members.
Unquestioning patriotic correctness paves the way for moral and fiscal bankruptcy.
1
We need universal military service.
One reason civilian America pays so little attention to our military misadventures is that those military actions affect such a small percentage of our population. This is undoubtedly a deliberate policy decision based on our experience in Vietnam, which was the last war in which we employed a draft.
I'd like to borrow an idea from ancient Rome, in which those whose families own property are called up first, with those owning the most property automatically assigned to combat leadership posts.
Further, I would like all our military actions to be restricted to declared war. No declaration of war, no military action. And, finally, I think any declared war should be entirely paid for by corporate tax increases.
Why do I think we'd suddenly become the least bellicose nation on earth?
I've never had the chance to serve in the military, but I've always been a citizen. I wonder if my thinking would have been different had I served in the military. I wonder if being shot at and been in danger of dying in the field of battle would have changed my thinking that we are spending so much of our taxes in the military and less and less on the "so-called" civilian programs like education, support for the poor, ensuring our health care to name a few. This article from Phil Klay helps a lot in my thinking that you don't have to be a military man to think like a patriotic citizen.
Thank God there are still reflective, thoughtful, and articulate Americans willing to offer their opinions that we might understand there isn’t “them” and “us”; there’s only us.
2
what a great, timely essay. Perhaps Milton's words are apropos: "They also serve who only stand and wait". And the words of William James at the dedication of a monument to Colonel Shaw of the 54th Mass. Regiment: "The deadliest enemies of nations are not their foreign foes; they always dwell within their borders. And from these internal enemies civilization is always in need of being saved. The nation blest above all nations is she in whom the civic genius of the people does the saving day by day, by acts without external picturesqueness; by speaking, writing, voting reasonably; by smiting corruption swiftly; by good temper between parties; by the people knowing true men when they see them, and preferring them as leaders to rabid partisans or empty quacks. Such nations have no need of wars to save them. Their accounts with righteousness are always even; and God's judgments do not have to overtake them fitfully in bloody spasms and convulsions of the race. "
1
So well written. A pleasure to read. And I agree, of course. www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/opinions/veterans-be...
As a veteran, I have learned Americans today love to swaddle ourselves in the flag (wearing a lapel pin) while spouting platitudes about military sacrifice after kicking the daylights out of the enemy. But 99% will never walk the talk.
There has not been a war that the American people carried the spirit of the military sacrifice on the home front since World War Two...most every family then had a child or close relative in the service and had to live day-to-day with less.
All subsequent bloody involvements were not wars, but conflicts, since they were not declared and authorized by Congress...those situations had less families with skin in the game.
Today most Americans do not know where the never-ending military commitments are located...there is too much pop culture to consume.
We Americans like to believe we'd follow George Washington into glorious battle taking on sacrifice and perhaps death.
The truth is that we'd be more like Col. Kilgore in the movie "Apocalypse Now," who while in the middle of praising a dying enemy soldier's bravery, claiming the man deserved to drink from his canteen but when told that "...the surf is up," he drops the pretention of caring to hit the waves.
Kilgore, like America, turns from honoring a fallen soldier to the selfishness of recreation. He is the perfect metaphor for the way most Americans live with the sacrifice of the 1% who defend the country, while complaining about the mall traffic.
2
I'm not a veteran or a mall rat. Believe me, almost everyday I think of this stuff.
And where have I ever found comfort or reasoning for any of this? Rush Limbaugh? Dubya? Al Franken? Trump? Kelly? The MIC? Pelosi? Clinton? The Memorial Day parade and service.....and the whackee local preachers that keep tying religion to patriotism who speak there....it's painful
My goodness! For an ex-soldier and self-described "warrior", Mr. Klay certainly is a man of many, many words. He must have served as a highly decorated Wordsmith in a PR unit. Dangerous work, indeed, but someone has to do it. Where do we get such men?!
1
The ONLY way to Support The Troops is to oppose wars of choice with no achievable objectives justified by lies and disinformation. The corporate media deliberately averts its gaze to the smoldering aftermath of our ruinous interventions because if the American public can be kept ignorant of the consequences, the trillions of dollars can continue to flow to the military-industrial complex.
Endless war was predicted by Orwell, along with the absurd sloganeering, shifting targets and cowed, fearful populace. Everything you need to understand about Bush, Cheney, Obama, Clinton, Trump and Pence and their disastrous foreign policy moves is explained in uncannily predictive prose written half a century ago.
1
Another way of putting it: Divide and conquer
I wonder if two years of universal service to the country for all young citizens would help better everyone's attitude.
2
It would be worth trying !
As a veteran (released from active duty 45 years ago this coming Tuesday) and a former VA employee (33 years), I can only say, “Well said.”
107
I thought from the headline the story would be about the reflexive support for foolish wars from shoppers who were OK with the US being involved in endless mideast wars because they were not inconvenienced by such wars, and perhaps enjoyed the idea of the US shooting off missiles, killer drones, and other high tech weapons which posed no risk to them.
What we have turned a blind eye to is not just the Syrian casualties of the civil war there, but the civilian casualties we are partly responsible for from our long wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and our support for the war against Yemen.
1
Thank you for writing this. It echoes thoughts that I've had, despite never having served in the military.
4
Really well stated. The military in this country reports to civilians, not the other way around, General Kelly’s attitude notwithstanding. Unfortunately, the American public is not fulfilling its obligation, as citizens, to shape foreign policy and vote for representatives who will bring us into war, IF NECESSARY, with substantial justification, and with upmost concern for the lives of those directly involved, both military and civilian; not with “patriotic correctness” and the spasmodic twitch of a Twitter finger.
5
Dubya and Rummy didn't "tweet" did they?
There are very good reasons why we have civilians in charge of the military, and John Kelly's attitude is one of them. Too many citizens have a fetishism about the military, but pay scant attention to teachers, nurses and others who are just as important to our society. Those who serve deserve our respect...but that's all. I'm pleased to see veterans commenting here who understand proportionality when it comes to the military in society. I hope this is the norm, not the exception.
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1
What a brilliant and honest appraisal of our government's war mentality. It seems being a great power means showing muscle all the time, being the one to control everything, whatever is comprised of "everything." Oddly, we don't seem to learn. One would think Viet Nam would have been a lesson for the ages, but sadly it wasn't The Czars of war win, and we the people lose because of their power, their thirst for money, our sense of patriotism and sometimes, even the use of a god.
4
I too thought Vietnam would have been THE lesson for America in my lifetime. WRONG!!
1
Many military recruiting offices, perhaps the vast majority, are actually in malls of one kind or another. As local brick and mortar retail struggles to remain relevant and many of these malls struggle to remain afloat, I wonder what it will mean for recruiting efforts? I would think that after Iraq and Afghanistan, and now with Trump in charge, recruiting has never been more difficult. Then again, a lot may depend on local economic conditions. If the mall closes, a career of military service may suddenly seem a bit more appealing.
2
The civilian idea of soldiers and veterans started to shift with the Korean Conflict. This was not a war and the civilian population thought of it as a Saturday night bar fight as opposed to the World Wars. It was far away and limited to that little piece of land and who knew of anybody from there like the Europeans of WWII. Same for Vietnam except we saw the horrors on TV and we got mad because we were being lied to by the government.
4
Thanks, Mr. Klay. I have nothing but respect for those who choose to serve in the defense of our country. I grew up during the war in Vietnam, where suspicions about the true nature of the warfare were proven worse than most thought. That was all after the fact. Americans currently involved in the public dialog are mostly old enough to remember that the justification for Iraq II was shaky enough that Powell made sure Tenet was in the camera shot as he reeled off the reasons to the UN. None of this reflects on the soldier, sailor, marine or airman in combat. All of it reflects on the blurred line between politicians and service officers. When a war seems unending, it’s hard to have expectations of success. When Abu Grahib happens, it adds a decision making process to the civilian mind that will necessarily change opinions about front line personnel. I see veterans every day who go about their civilian lives and are grateful for their complementing opportunities in and out of uniform. I know of far too many whose wounds of all manner are left unattended. I also see who I believe may be veterans or not who festoon their lives with aggressive references to military life, to the point of some sort of interpersonal deterrence. Most civilians know little of actual military life or combat. Stories like yours help immensely. We support and defend honor, dedication, discipline and sacrifice. We probably don’t always know how to express it, but don’t doubt it for a minute.
3
Since nearly all of those 149 deployments either make no difference or create more problems than they try to solve, why not just go home and go shopping instead of waging wars?
The US military cannot explain nearly all of the wars it runs for changing presidents and governments, so why run them at all?
At best the US will be seen as an irritation but in most cases the US is seen as the aggressor which is usually is.
So go home and use the budget that is currently spent on the military for shopping which will improve local business revenues quite a bit while foreign countries can revert to solving their problems alone.
4
Soldiers have every right to scorn mall goers if they choose. It's their right, after all, while we wander and admire, they are frequently dodging bullets. Remember, soldiering is voluntary. Their choice to be soldiers allows them to gripe.
The placement of American soldiers in countries that are not necessarily doing specific harm to our country but rather are being destroyed from within (Syria is such a country) makes justifying our soldier's deaths far more difficult to condone.
The second war in Iraq, started under false circumstances, saw the start of another generation of injured Americans and now, we are having trouble caring for them.
Thus, if you choose the mall, may I suggest you also choose to rally behind our soldiers. The have earned your support.
1
WitSoldiers do have the right to criticize, with in the constraints of their military service, as do all Americans. I would argue the idea that their voluntary service gives them any right to criticize beyond that of any other citizen. While they have a particular insight that others may not, they did volunteer. It is not as if they were plucked out of the general populace via the draft.
As has been shown, especially since Vietnam, one can support the soldiers while being critical of the policies that put them in combat. But blind reverence can all to easily become blind support for failed or failing doctrines.
1
Respect for the soldier, yes. Respect for the politicians who sent that soldier on one of 149 missions to who knows where and the voters who unquestioningly vote for that politician, no.
1
You have no idea what people do when not at the mall, do you? The nurses who care for the dying in hospices, the teachers struggling to reach lost kids, the people killing chickens in horrid yards all day for pennies, and so many more--people with cancers--and children, too... Having contempt for people you don't know is a foolish thing, prideful, foolish, and mean. Please avoid it.
2
Respect for those who serve in our military forces would be demonstrated by two things we now lack - first, a clear and high purpose for the engagements. Fighting terrorists seems to be an undefined and endless target and the fight itself seems only to destroy innocents and create more terrorists. There must be a better reason for sacrificing our youth than protecting oil fields for the profit of the oligarchs or the whim of a self absorbed president (see Paul Krugman's column). If there is not, we need to bring them home.
Second, we could respect our military by paying them well and providing good benefits. In general this county does not respect manual labor or dangerous occupations. These workers are often very poorly paid, with little or no health care coverage and no pension benefits. Reports indicate that many serving in the military rely on food stamps and wait time for disability benefits and medical treatment is a national disgrace. Their families are often neglected and impoverished. This is wrong. If we do not support and respect our military, how can we expect them to respect us?
5
What these military folks forget is that us sponges pay taxes. Which means that a significant part of our wages goes towards paying for government services. This includes the military. In other words, what we pay in taxes (we as a nation have the highest percentage of tax money funneled towards "defense") goes towards paying for their equipment and salaries. Therefore, military personnel work for us. That means that we have the right to criticize and question their jobs.
10
These phenomena are not new in the history of this country. Anyone who knows the history well of the American Civil War, knows that with a few changes in rhetorical style this piece could have been easily lifted out of the editorial pages of the New York Times ca. 1863. Commercial life in the north, at least progressed to a remarkable degree without much interruption or evidence that there "was a war going on..." and not in some far distant land but just a couple of states away. As much as we might like to think otherwise, America has never really been a martial civilization. We are not Prussia. We are a land of railroad tycoons, of steel and oil tycoons, of Walmart and Disney Land and Apple and Google. Moreover, our immediate, personal interests have never truly been threatened---almost in World War II--since the Civil War. And even then, northerners were rarely affected other than losing loved ones in a far off land called Virginia or seeing a rise in the cost of cotton goods. So, read your history, and learn a thing or two.
1
"Yet, if I have authority to speak about our military policy it’s because I’m a citizen responsible for participating in self-governance, not because I belonged to a warrior caste."
One would hope that it is an informed and educated citizen speaking about our military policy while participating in self-governance.
The author's service in the "warrior caste" has provided that information and education. Our challenge is helping those vast majority who have never even met a soldier, sailor, airman or Marine achieve comparable understanding.
Respectfully,
Another Lieutenant, USMC, who has been out of the service longer than in.
3
Well said. I think this piece about engagement and responsibility is a reminder to all of us to be good while we strive to be vital in our lives.
4
I appreciate Mr. Klay's thoughts and well-written perspective. But as a parent of a soldier, much closer in age to Gen. Kelly than to Mr. Klay, I would suggest that, as Mr. Klay's own recollection confirms, that one's thoughts and opinions on war in general and the adequacy of the public's response specifically are neither absolutely right or wrong; they change with time and experience.
1
the divide between civilians and the military in American society goes back at least to the Viet Nam period, when most of American came to understand we were in a bloody foreign war for no good reason, yet members of our military were serving and dying with no end in sight.
as in so many other areas, we have never really gotten over that conflict, at home or abroad, in the military or in the greater society.
war is terrible enough. our government should not make bad worse by getting us into undeclared wars around the world for dubious purposes, with shadowy motivations, and with no national defense or security purposes clearly understood by voters other than unsupportable claims made by self motivated politicians and military leaders. it seems there is no actual Congressional appetite to face our resposibilities for declarations of war, the President and. Congressional committees try to cover it all up with executive actions and resolutions, but nothing that actually commits the nation to war - often because we decide to fight opponents that are not nation states.
on a more opitimistic note: your boys will be fine.
4
This was a very important and insightful commentary by Mr. Munday, But when recalling the tragedy in Niger he says "Americans shifted from a discussion of policy to a symbolic battle over which side, Democratic or Republican, wasn’t respecting soldiers enough." he fails to mention the role of the mainstream media (like the New York Times to name one) in shifting our attention away from the debate about our policies concerning military interventions and towards partisan political gotchas. A fair portion of the current appeal to military authority as a tool to cut off debate is directly attributable to the press, always on the hunt for the soundbite to embarrass the current administration. Soldiers aren't sacred, neither are reporters.
3
it is the "all volunteer" military that allows adventurism like iraq to take place in the first place. and whilei i believe the vast majority of soldiers do so for patriotic reasons, they allow a country that is really free from danger to be an imperial force (again, mostly for good) all over the world. our constitution is clear, americans dont have to support the military, the military has to support the citizens.
6
What a brilliant and thoughtful opinion!
The term 'sacrifice' is over blown and overused in the United States culture, a very close second to 'love'.
I bristle everytime a baskbetball commentator talks about some multi-million dollar player sacrificing their body to grab a ball from an opponent on the court. As an extreme example
The bulk of the US armed forces are comprised ot young men and women who come from less fortunate backgrounds. US armed services target these young people for recruitment with the sops of education, advancement, and an opportunity to get away from the disadvantaged circumstances whence they come from.
So the choice is not one of heroism or sacrifice, but one of opportunity.
Add to that the fact that the majority of service members serve the bureaucracy in their uniforms and never see 'combat'
And not even counting the notion of defending the homeland, while in reality we are invading other countries that are half way across the globe in wars of choice, the whole thing is a farce and a hoax
10
I agree that current zeal surrounding U.S. patriotism and military genuflecting is as dangerous as any external enemy. In response to comments suggesting mandatory conscription as an equalizer - I get it, but I already pay taxes into a government that undermines other democracies in order to promote our own economic superiority and am not willing to donate my children to that same sham.
10
Bravo, Phil Klay, not only for your service to the country some years ago, but for your keenly observed and thoughtful perspective about that experience, and your ongoing service as a good husband, father and citizen. I was struck by this sentence in this excellent piece of writing: "I understand why politicians and writers and institutions choose to employ the trope of veterans when it comes to arguing for their causes". I don't know why you speak of writers in the third person - this piece is ample evidence that you are a rather good one.
12
The chasm between citizens who choose private enterprise vs. public service to make money seems unaffected by our partisan divide. We argue incessantly about the levels and uses of our tax dollars (soldiers and police good, govm’t beauracrats bad, or vice versa). All public servants are caught in the middle. Perhaps this is human nature: we resent those we pay to provide what we are unable to do for ourselves. Public servants feel this resentment, although soldiers probably more viscerally so than public officials.
I love the author pointing out that the civilian population living untroubled yet productive lives makes the soldier’s work meaningful. Patriotic correctness has long been the refuge of scoundrels, words employed to end a meaningful discussion. What acts of patriotism do the scoundrels contribute? Join a militia and find out. More importantly, look diligently at the value of the services we receive for our tax dollars, rather than the pain of paying our individual tax burdens. Those services come to us by our public servants. We should celebrate all of them.
5
The U. S. showers veterans with benefits, spending billions on lifelong medical care, education & career training, and more. I've never heard a veteran thank the American people for those benefits. It's always civilians who are required to thank them. We don't thank every police officer or fire fighter we meet, and they also provide necessary and selfless service to others, and often putting their lives in jeopardy. It's only with a draft, when men and women who otherwise would not have joined, but nevertheless do, because their country calls on them, that gratitude is really warranted. It's then that sacrifice is shown. Otherwise, joining the military is a just another personal life choice, like whether to go to college, or get married, or move to another city. If some veterans feel resentment toward civilians, maybe they just made the wrong choice.
6
Well I for one thank all the citizens who have paid to give the Benefits and medical care that I and my family have received ... it is unfortunate that our cinc won’t reveal how much he has paid in taxes to allow me to travel and to use the training that I received to earn a good living after my retirement in 1994. I don’t expect and actually am really uncomfortable when someone thanks me for my service. It was a two way street I volunteered to do what I did and was rewarded handsomely not monetarily but with life long friendships and memories that someone who hasn’t been there and done that will never understand
2
American soldiers fight for the national interest, not “freedom”, we haven’t been invaded since the War of 1812. Most of the history of the United States military has been one of conquering Indians and Mexicans, suppressing rebellions of said Indians (and of course the Southern Rebellion) and fighting foreign enemies who had no direct aim on our freedom. Now I think the national interest is a fair enough reason to fight (deciding that interest being a separate issue) but Americans are uneasy with such cynical realpolitik and need a righteous cause to fight for; thus we tell ourselves we fight for freedom.
9
A not thought of aspect of our amnesia about wars and military is the absence in our every day lives. if you don't pay attention to the news, you may miss it altogether. In other countries, I see military within civilian areas, dare I say malls? They may be off duty, but are still in uniform and makes one aware of the military, soldiers, and in some way, war.
1
An excellent article. As a Korean War veteran that had enlisted as 17 1/2 year old in July 1949 not really expecting a war but prepared, never-the-less, I came to see how disgruntled many of the draftees were who came in during the 1950 -52 time that I served as a Medic. Many had been in college at the time of being drafted and were resentful for being called into service.
This resentment was familiar to General George Washington when he realized that he could not count on the Militia to be reliable in battle. Well trained regulars who had volunteered to be in the ranks were the best fighters for the most part. Our modern military uses very sophisticated weapons and tactics and only well trained and dedicated personnel are needed to perform modern warfare. We can be very proud that we have a group of men and women who are dedicated to voluntarily perform these duties for us. Bless them all! I sleep well nightly even at 86 knowing they are on duty.
2
I was going to write a comment echoing much of what others have said. Instead I'll simply say thank you, Phil Klay, for this excellent piece.
25
I echo that sentiment - thank you for a thoughtful and well-written piece.
1
Kudos to the author of this opinion piece. I am often in agreement or opposition to such articles but it is rare that thoughts and feelings are coagulated into such a wow moment. He has expressed and explained a situation and attitude that I was only vaguely aware of and now see much more clearly. Thank you. I shall endeavor to seriously question and comment to those who make policy decisions.
11
Phil Klay for President.
6
I appreciate that others have elected to serve in the military, and recognize military service as honorable. It grieves me that service members are wounded (mentally or physically), or die. However, I don't believe that America's freedom has been at stake in any of the conflicts our military has been involved in since WWII. America has been involved in misguided and paranoid interventions (Korea and Vietnam) and mercenary wars designed to safeguard the interests of American oligarchy (Gulf wars). This is no fault of the service men and women - however, I cannot in good conscience applaud their service as in defense of American freedom.
26
Thank you for this. I hope it helps move the needle away from faux patriotism and towards more meaningful discussion of these issues in the body politic. While sadly it may be true, as one commenter said, that this "could credibly be written only by a veteran," now that it is written the rest of us need to pick up the sentiment and challenge those in the military's thrall who would silence the rest of us.
30
One of my brothers was in the Marines for 4 years and now serves full-time in the National Guard in North Carolina. We have had many conversations about the dangers of “putting soldiers on a pedestal” (his words) and I’m looking forward to discussing this excellent essay with him.
19
Thank you for this excellent essay and also the thoughtful comments.
I'd like to add the observation that our patriotic correctness coincides with a volunteer army. Are we quietly luring young people into combat with a message that by joining up you will be respected and honored in ways not found in civilian life?
22
Unfortunately, we have slid into using the military as a place for job training, sprinkling ads with patriotic fairy-dust to lure those who might want a higher education, along with serving their “duty”.
I echo all those who speak of he fact that we have not been invaded since the early 1800’s, and that our most recent incursions are far more focused on business interests than actual threats to the so-called “homeland”. (And please, ENOUGH with that fascist description.)
Most of all, I hate what our non-stop war mode has done to our cities, towns and villages. We load up police departments with surplus material and vets who may or may not be aware of their own PTSD. “Officer Friendly” has left the building, replaced with glaring, suspicious ex-soldiers, waiting for the next civilian to pull a gun or plant an IED.
I hope that we find our way out of this mess. But as long as we only focus on the interests of the current day robber barons, I fear for the fabric of our society.
2
I have come to believe that the only way to get back to a enlightened and objective use of US military force is to reinstate the draft and to make some kind of national service mandatory. I say this as a lifelong liberal and father of draft age sons. If all American families were required to send their sons and daughters into the service and perhaps into harm's way, I think there would be a much more thoughtful and circumspect approach to applying military force in this country. Mandatory service might also help break down some of the polarization in this country .
30
Yes. I believe relying on volunteers to fight for us is immoral. It allows people not to engage, as they see themselves as having nothing at stake in the decision to use war as a means of resolving conflict. The activism of the 1960s was due to the draft. And the decision to end the draft soon followed.
4
Did it work last time? This 67-yr-old, who well-remembers the draft, says no.
I served as a civilian at a provincial reconstruction team in Afghanistan for 13 months from 2008 - 2009, and Phil Klay captured life at a PRT so vividly and honestly in a chapter in his collection of stories Redeployment.
I gave the book to everyone I could and urged them to read it because of the thoughtful and intellectual honesty of Klay's prose. His Op-ed today is the most insightful piece of writing on America's modern wars and our foreign policy I have read in the NYTimes in 15 years. As a country, we need to have a serious national dialogue about these issues before it is too late.
32
Thanks, Phil, for one of the best opinion pieces I have read on these pages. To critically assess and to question policies of the government, including military/foreign policies should be a sacred duty for every informed citizen, as sacred as volunteering to serve. To question this responsibility or to paint every criticism of a military or foreign policy initiative as 'anti-patriotic' can be an eventual path towards brain-washed citizenry led into perpetual wars by authoritarian governments (aka Orwell's 1984). The last thing one could want in the society is yet another layer of division between the heroic warrior caste and the supposed lazy, ingrate civilians. Kudos for this skillfully nuanced write up.
21
I was struck by how often the comments on this extraordinary essay included the phrase 'warrior class'. There seems to be a lot of anecdotal evidence that military service -- at least at the commissioned-officer level -- has become a family calling. (General Kelly and his son is one instance.) I wonder whether, and the extent to which, this exacerbates the sense that the military cannot be critiqued by anyone who is not a member of the class.
19
It's the Indo-European way, to cite one ancestral culture:
Priests/Kings
Warriors
Farmers
I remember "Redeployment." I actually still have a copy sitting on the bookshelf behind me. Phil Klay certainly has the writer's gift for wind. He can turn a five page essay into fifteen pages without so much as a "by your leave." Beautifully written but I think he could have approached the topic a little more succinctly.
Here's the thing about patriotic correctness: Military culture serves a specific operational function within military service. Service members need to believe in the unique elitism of their particular task in order to survive the hardships they are asked to endure. They do this even within and between services. "Go Navy. Beat Army," "If you ain't ordinance..." and so on. Feeling penny proud but acting pound foolish is a time honored military tradition.
The phenomenon was best described to me by an Iraq veteran fresh home from overseas. I asked him about his service. He said "Someone has to peel the potatoes." I found his response a very frank an honest assessment of military disdain for civilian life. Basically, I fly halfway around the world to sit in a war zone peeling potatoes while you just sat here at home. I understand his cynicism.
The problem is when this attitude is co-opted by the highest levels of government. Getting grumpy at civilians belongs to the grunt, not the White House press secretary. Gripes go up, not down. That's the fundamental rule of the military hierarchy. The Trump administration doesn't seem to get that.
17
I urge the author of this comment to reread his first paragraph again and critique his own "wind".
I have worked with US and other nations armed forces (including Russian, and some of the FSU) for almost 24 years, and I have had a chance to compare the attitude towards each nation's military.
The religious under-pinning of the current attitude of near worship of the US military is that of a crusade by Southern and rural Christians. This attitude is evident in only one other opposing force, Jihadis, and no other military that I have encountered. Those other countries are motivated by politics, nationalism and patriotism, but not religion.
Let's end the crusader approach and return to conflict management against our enemies with a coherent plan based on our national interests, not on Evangelical fairy-tales.
51
well said, beautifully written. this Marine Vietnam War veteran salutes you and your courage in writing it. semper fidelis.
and thank you NY Times for printing it!
19
I have no personal animosity towards individuals who voluntarily choose to make a life of armed service. My father, brother, and cousins have served. I would prefer that all members of the armed forces lead fulfilling lives and stay free from injury or death, and I wish the same for all those you are ordered to attack. The system we both find ourselves in will put me in prison if I fail to (involuntarily) pay my share of the taxes which fund our armed forces. (In that case, you would then be involuntarily paying taxes to maintain me.) Our species' conscious practices of physical violence -- unlike those of other animals, who are merely out looking for a meal -- ensure our continuing armed conflict, until and unless we become different animals than we are presently, or organize ourselves according to a different set of values.
6
This is a serious and important article and it deserves attention.
But one sentence scared me: "...we regularly talk about the sort of qualities we want to impress upon our boys so they can be good citizens, and how we can help cultivate in them a sense of service, of gratitude for the blessings they have, and a desire to give back."
This militant attitude by a military dad might presage the kind of father who thinks he knows what his sons have to be like and through the application of his "good" knowledge and intention wrests from those sons their right to be who they are and want to be.
Then he will create monsters.
I think a dad can try to let a child be a child and an adolescent an adolescent, and have some red lines that cannot be crossed, and foster thinking and order and show how discipline is a good thing in any life, but not try to define the content of the child.
So you can work on structure and process, and especially, teach through example, and you can have red lines, but you have to respect the development of every human being, even if he is your son. Especially if he is your son.
2
Malarkey! Militant? Monsters? Pedro, I believe that you're operating with a lot of very serious assumptions based on the author's military background. Service, gratitude and giving back could just as well be a modern Quaker vision of parenting.
1
This is just another flavor of "identity" politics. It seems that you need to be a minority to talk about minorities, gay to talk about that topic, or a veteran to talk about anything related to the services.
We need to move beyond that--as a united people need to be able to enter into healthy debate and design policy that is fair for all, regardless of how one self- identities.
10
Well said. It's high time to reinstate the draft (with alternative service options) to remind Americans what's at risk and what it means to be a citizen.
11
Old School WWII thinking. The draft is another way of saying 'let's fight the wars of the 20th century in the 21st century.' Of course, another expression for the draft is involuntary servitude -- slavery. Why should the military have a claim for even a minute of anyone's life to perform mandatory 'government service,' whether to help kill innocent foreigners or to perform some other mindless task that the private sector doesn't want to do. To reinstate the draft so the military can have a guaranteed supply of cannon fodder for the next brainless overseas misadventure that costs trillions will definitely bring far more people into the streets than will ever again involuntarily serve in a feckless, bloated, money-sucking military -- the biggest in the world -- that hasn't actually won a war since 1945. Losers.
1
It has long been a vile tactic of the Right to attempt to shame any citizen who questions or criticizes our wars or military actions. How many times during the Iraq war did we hear that “you don’t support our troops”, or that “waving the white flag of surrender” by ending this misbegotten adventure would mean our “troops would have died in vain”.
Our national reverence for generals got great ones like Grant and Eisenhower elected by a rightfully grateful country.
After our first war of choice Korea, we continued to allow wars based on abstract ideas about ideology. That brought us to Vietnam, where such deference was shown towards generals like Westmoreland by the press and our WWII-generation parents that it took a horrified generation of kids to question what they were being asked to do and begin to question that authority and the credibility of our generals.
Even so, hundreds of thousands of our troops and civilians died needlessly until the helicopters took off from our embassy roof in Saigon.
And thereafter, starting with Reagan and two Bushes our military leadership was rehabilitated and we were trained again to never question our leadership lest we shame ourselves by suggesting that our kids lives were being wasted on a fool’s errand.
And we now have a President who is so besotted by anyone with the title “General” that he feels the very word should stop all conversation or debate.
“War is too important to left to the generals” .
24
This is an excellent essay, and perhaps its point is underscored by the obvious fact that it could credibly be written only by a veteran.
10
Thank you for this piece. Your thoughts are expressed beautifully. I am also appreciative of many of the comments. This is a discussion we need to have in our country. Thank you.
15
WWII ended just before I was born in 1945. It was the last war that the U.S. was a part of that could credibly be said to have been "fought to protect our freedom". All military involvement during my lifetime has looked more like aggression or face-saving or "war-is-good-business" greed. So much staggering cost, in lives, in good will, in world opinion. People who sign up for the military and end up in a war are never the same when they return. My friends still suffer from physical and mental damage that happened to them in Viet Nam. What we owe them and all who came after is superb medical care. That's the best way to show our thanks and respect for what they have done.
13
A consequence of Vietnam was the abolition of the draft. Along with deficit spending, no draft has made it easier for federal politicans to make the case for taking us into war. When we don't need to draft young people or raise taxes, our politicians can sidestep much of the moral reasoning with voters needed to make the case for war.
The aftermath of Vietnam resulted in a taboo against insulting active-duty military people and veterans, and that's good. But the aftermath also resulted in a horror of the draft, and its elimination. Wilson had to make the case to the nation that victory in World War I justified spilling blood and selling war bonds. FDR had to do the same for World War II. But no longer do we average voters have to confront going to war on quite such a personal level.
Deployed military people have a legitimate lament that they're risking their lives for the rest of us citizens / mall rats, and we don't care much. That's an unintended consequence of the end of the draft and the embrace of deficit spending. To put it bluntly it's too easy to enter into wars fought by professionals and paid for with credit cards.
17
I write as a Vietnam Veteran . This article should be mandatory reading and discussion in schools but most especially in the Congress of the United States.
I was drafted in 1968 and immediately knew after basic training in the Army I would be in Vietnam. I had already begone to question the whole Vietnam war. I looked at every possibility (legal) of avoiding military service and thus the war. Once I realized my efforts were futile I decided my chances of survival were slightly better if I volunteered. Thus I was accepted to USAF officer training with an eye towards pilot training. I served faithfully and honorably achieving the rank of Captain and received The Bronze Star for my Vietnam service. Now when people thank me for my service I quickly point out that I was drafted and no choice.
The answer to total civic engagement is to bring back the draft ! Then with ALL of us engaged with what our politicians are doing relative to military engagement, we can be more comfortable at the mall.
Men and woman who chose a military career and achieve General Officer rank are no different from those who choose to be car salesman, computer programmer, doctor, lawyer, Indian chief. They prepare for their choice and work hard to achieve success. They are no better than their neighbor.
The all volunteer force has put the burden of service on a few. I understand the word “volunteer” but what motivates these volunteers ? Is it service to country or unemployment with a wife and sick child .
21
Likewise, enlisted in USAF to avoid being drafted. Never served in Vietnam and now face some hostility from veterans who did. I wholeheartedly support the notion of “public service for all,” both men and women. Hospitals, community centers, the military, our schools, and on and on all could use more community involvement. The giving of personal time and treasure could be a motivational factor in getting the populace to pay attention and take some ownership of the state of affairs.
11
I recommended your comment although I don't believe we should bring back the draft for everyone. Bringing back the draft to ensure that everyone is touched by the choices made behind closed doors by high ranking business government and warrior class members won't achieve the result of wider civic engagement. A reinstated draft will be accompanied by the same deferments that accompanied other wartime drafts. One size has never fit all.
6
John, you were called and served. That’s the bottom line. Assignments were the “luck of the draw”. Many of the guys I trained with, while engaged in the war, operated out of Thailand . I would have traded life at DaNang for life in Thailand any time.
Thank you for this scathing and accurate critique of the media and how it reports on military services. Now that the White House, both houses of Congress, the Supreme and other courts, and a significant part of the "free press" are all controlled by Mercer interests, the way honest and independent journalists frame the news and discussion is more important than ever. Please keep writing.
8
"I don't want to act as though my deployment was particularly rough, because it wasn't. I had a very mild deployment; I was a staff officer.". Klay. Some useful thoughts in this essay but would have been more pointed coming from a combat veteran or Gold Star family member. My son did two tours in Afghanistan in a dangerous combat role - every day was tortorous for us hoping there would be no knock on the door. Yet we knew why he signed up. Yes, those in combat - sorry Mr. Klay - shouldn't be worshipped but they should be respected.
16
Actually, this demonstrates his point. One shouldn't have to be in the military to question US foreign engagements. Taking it further into which type of military service merits the right to an opinion, as in the comment above, just demonstrates how that kind of thinking is unproductive and squelches debate. None of that takes away from the sacrifice and achievement of your son.
33
This is the issue. Why assume they aren't respected? Respect, yes. Blind hero worship? No.
28
Whether you realize or not, you just substantiated Phil Klay's argument.
- Best
24
Excellent article. Thank you.
I think the bottom line is that if the war is not important enough for those at home to give up their normal routines...give up shopping at the mall...it isn't important enough for our Country to be fighting.
15
Very thoughtful and thought-provoking piece.
4
I just finished reading the classic novel "All Quiet on the Western Front" by Erich Maria Remarque. I highly recommend it for anyone interested in the foot soldier's point of view. I suspect things haven't changed much in the 100 years since the events described in the book.
3
Enlisted in the USAF in 1968, and served 4 yrs. Was never in Nam.
Seems to me that the promotion of glorifying soldiers is to make it unpopular to voice opposition to military adventures overseas, and excessive spending on military hardware.
As an aside, I never had anyone denigrate me for being in the military during the 60s, or 70s. I used to hitchhike from New Mexico to Ohio when I took leave, ( 3 times) just for the experience. Would leave my car in Abq. at a friends house. Was picked up by many types of people, truckers, hippies, crazy people, old people, families, etc. Never a word. Voicing opposition to war gets you lumped with a handful of crazy people who hung out at airports in California.
10
A 2010 book, "A More Perfect Military: How the Constitution Can Make Our Military Stronger," covers the same ground and shows how little progress we have made in reversing this endless cycle of military resentment and civilian detachment:
"It teaches Americans to believe they cannot understand the military . . . and that Americans only demonstrate their ungratefulness and disrespect for the military service of others when they ask for explanation."
"One cannot overestimate how much young people who are new to the military lap up this language of contempt and resentment and make it their own."
It's a shame that we think only veterans deserve a voice in civilian control of the military. It's not good for our country, and it's not good for the military.
6
Speaking as someone who marched against the War in Vietnam and the draft that was sweeping up so many poor kids to fight it, I think it is now clear we made a huge mistake by allowing the nation to replace the draft with the all-volunteer army, which still sweeps up poor kids to fight our wars. The long-term damage to our democracy becomes clearer every day and would horrify our founders. Thanks for this excellent piece.
21
I agree. We should all serve in some capacity, not necessarily through combat, but there should be a call to serve expected of every American.
4
"Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country". Words to live by.
Watched a security guard, definitely ex-military type, shove at yell at and push an obviously in distress bum who was moving uncontrollably and shouting - drugs or craziness, who knows. But the hostility of this middle-aged white security guard, with his combat gear on, the anger and agression he showed towards this poor black homeless man was horrible. I am tired of most of these military guys bringing the war back home.
22
This is a beautifully written, well-argued, smart and honest piece.
19
I have an acquaintance who enlisted in the 90s and spent the majority of his time in the army driving a bus in Germany. He didn't spend a minute in combat, but did spend hours at the discotheque. Every year on Veteran's Day, he posts old photographs of himself in his uniform on Facebook. Without fail, his post lights up with thanks for his service.
Meanwhile, I watch as my wife and my sister, both of them public school teachers, go to work every day with kids who increasingly need their help, kids who don't stand much of a chance of making it in this world without the service these two women provide. I have seen them both driven to tears by the mental and emotional toll of their profession. For their efforts, they have seen their pay frozen and their benefits cut. The local grocery store doesn't provide them with special parking, they are never honored at NFL games and no stranger will ever walk up to them and thank them for what they do.
I, like most Americans, applaud the men and women of the United States military. Thank you. I also applaud every other person in a host of professions whose efforts are directed at making this country better.
162
To your wife and your sister, as well as everyone who takes on the daunting challenge of educating children, thank you for what you do.
27
As commenter Mr Wisner explains so well, driving a wedge between those in the military (and their families) and the country’s civilians makes it hard for the country to work out a comprehensive solution to our many problems. Here’s a better way. The little town of Wenham, MA (hometown of Gen George S Patton) is conducting a speaker series called Pathways of Patriots. Last night’s presentation included a searing 1-hour discussion by WW2 veteran (Lawrence Kirby USMC), Vietnam War veteran (Marc Levy, infantry medic, USArmy, 1st Cav) and Afghanistan veteran (Thomas Laaser, US Army 10th Mtn Div) of their war experiences and how they as very young men were changed by the experience. They also described how their relationships to their fellow citizens were changed — for the better. Their understanding of love, and the selflessness of it, was forever altered. The 2d panel was made up of members of Gold Star families, who opened up about their grief and loss, about coping, about how they love this country. There were 100 or so people in the audience - aged 12 to late 90s. It was a remarkable, once in a lifetime experience, of bravery, compassion; the spirits of more than 100 people meeting in a lament over the tragedy of war. Of people sitting in quiet respect to hear each other’s experience. To open their hearts to each other across generations. This is where the country should be headed - to understand the sacrifices and offerings of military & civilian. We are one.
9
About time that WE ALL did just that
1
This wonderful piece resonates deeply and certainly not because of my status as a vet. The need for full participation in our democracy and the open discussions that are a significant part of that duty should not be tamped down or discouraged by those who somehow feel that they have a greater say as a consequence of their military service or sacrifice. It is about time someone had the guts to expose this reckless form of arrogance and elitism. It is absolutely antithetical to what our country is supposed to stand for. In feudal Japan the samurai class could decapitate a merchant on a whim simply because of his military status. Here and now we often experience verbal decapitation. It brings back memories of other mindless expressions of arrogance such as "My country, right or wrong" and "America, love it or leave it."
17
Re-installing the draft and ensuring that it was applied equally across the Economic spectrum, would solve many of our problems. It would create some new ones, but the net result would be positive.
1
Phil I have read a lot of your stuff and it always is sincere honest and thought provoking. I would encourage you to write about why it’s so hard to transition to civilian life. I retired and worked for a decade in a good job but still missed the military.
I have another thought as well I think that America and Veterans alike sometimes miss the fact that in many cases in one way or another we give the Military and the country the best years of our life. Thank your for your sacrifice in many cases is more appropriate than thank you for your service.
I wish the country would ask and answer and learn to answer in the future the question, “was it worth the price we paid and continue to pay in lost womenpower and manpower?”
6
Phil.
Great article.
Poignant and thought provoking.
Thank you!
4
I'm struck by the bitterness of many of the responses to this reflective, beautifully written article--many of which spoke more to the commenters' own grievances or policy positions than the author's point.
Well done, author. As citizens, we all have a job to do and the right to do it.
15
Mr. Klay's piece raises several important issues aside from, though in league with, the polarization of war vs "at the mall." The most prominent of these to me is what the country's move to an all volunteer army/services has achieved for those who were chastised and threatened by promoting Vietnam and other "projections of American interests."
When they were finally forced by protests that this country hasn't seen since to bring the troops home and acknowledge the Gulf of Tonkin Pentagon Papers reality of that abomination of a war, the backroom decision by the powers-that-be was to minimize the potential for grass-roots objection and protest by absolving the draft and promoting "patriotic correctness." How dare the people believe they should be able to directly influence foreign affairs, the returns of Ike's "military industrial complex," and as others have pointed out, the money to be made at war activities? If they're not going to salute, send 'em to the mall.
4
On Jan. 17, 1961, President Eisenhower, the former Supreme Allied Commander of the allied forces in Europe, during World War 2, delivered his final address as President of the United States. It is worth reading, in its entirety. http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/eisenhower001.asp
It included the oft-quoted: "In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together. "
I believe that President Eisenhower would have fully endorsed the views expressed by Phil Klay in this essay. Indeed, what Mr. Klay decries is the manipulation and coercion of public opinion, to further the self-serving objectives and insulate the errors of the military industrial complex.
Eisenhower's address and this essay ought be required reading in all civics classes. But civics is not taught much anymore. I wonder why?
27
What a well written and thought provoking piece. Mr. Klay, I will buy your book, since I don't know anyone currently involved in the military, and need to learn more.
The attitude of John Kelly is most surprising, since he is working under the most divorced president in US history- not maritally divorced (though that works also), but most divorced from the reality of military service, civilian service, and the 'obligations of citizenship'. How does Kelly reconcile his values with working under the 'chattering', tweeting, self serving dolt we have in our highest office?
12
After Kelly, who? Scott Pruit? Don't laugh.
"... although it is my patriotic duty to afford men like John Kelly respect for his service, and for the grief he has endured as the father of a son who died for our country, that is not where my responsibility as a citizen ends."
Precisely. What's wrong is not that civilians "dare" to have questions and opinions about how America is deploying its soldiers -- it's that <i>not enough of us</i> do. Not enough of us have, as the author puts it, "taken the time...as a concerned American civilian to form a worthy opinion." Soldiers don't have the luxury of questioning their orders, so it's our job -- every single one of us -- to hold our elected representatives accountable for where our service members are being sent, and for what purpose.
24
Mr. Klay,
The very best analysis I've seen, in a very long time, of the general thinking and feelings, surrounding life as an active soldier, a veteran, and the perceptions of the millions bereft of such experience.
Simply nothing to add which could improve on this important analysis.
11
Awesome explanation of why the country is so divided. Thank you for it.
Echoing what unencumbered said: "Mandatory service to country would go a long way toward re-uniting our many factions. It would help keep us out of the many areas of conflict we now blithely join. And most importantly, it would temper the evolution of a military elite that, otherwise, will some day feel entitled to take over this country to "save" us from ourselves. "
5
I am a teacher (talk about the hardest job that one can do and which elicits immediate criticism and no-nothing opinions from everyone. Politicians even put former military officers in charge of our school districts and colleges because, well not sure why, but because . . . . and you'd better just shut up about it)
Anyway, I teach classes in military history as well as "war and society". This essay beautifully frames a debate I've had continuously with my students for the last 17 years (more than half my career in the classroom!): citizens get to have an opinion, citizens must form an opinion if we are to support and serve the men and women who volunteer to fight. No one, especially not those who fight, should shut us up. Whoever said it (Trotsky, Tolstoy, etc.) "you might not be interested in war, but war is interested in you".
I know and have taught many veterans and active duty service members, mostly USN and USMC. We clash on this all the time. Citizens though should not back down as some venture to turn warfighters into some special military class. Service does not endow special enlightenment or even heroism. Perhaps humility about serving comes with a draft. Support the military and veterans but stop worshipping them. We aren't Prussia (yet) are we?
30
I failed to understand the anger at the president's statement that "he knew what he signed up for".
As one of those who also signed up I was very aware of what I could be getting into. At the time the country was engaged in Vietnam. I ended up in a Naval unit that was very involved in Vietnam.
There was a saying that everyone who joined had written a blank check to the government to be cashed for whatever purpose needed. I added that I hoped it would be well spent.
Yes, we did know what we signed up for.
1
Yes, we all knew what we signed up for. But spouses seldom really do--a point Chairman of the Joint Chiefs GEN Peter Pace frequently recognized when speaking to SpecOps audiences. To speak these words to a grieving spouse is to disregard the loss of the family and devalue the life and actions of the service member.
6
Sure, people know what they sign up for. However, saying that to a new widow shows a complete lack of compassion.
1
A very good argument for national service, i.e. a draft. If we had a draft I imagine a great many discussions of national security and the national interest would be very, very different.
9
The phrase does not reflect what os going on at the home front - it reflects a disconnect from the average American from anyone they know that is in the military. After WW II, everyone had a brother, uncle, father who served. Even after the draft and Vietnam, many middle class boys served. Now - I would bet that average NYT reader has no close relative who serves. When so few carry so much burden, it becomes easier and easier to put them in harm's way.
10
Thank you - contemplative and much appreciated.
7
I was born in White Plains, in 1954. My whole life, I don't believe any American soldier ever fought for me, to defend me, an average citizen, from any threat whatsoever. The Vietnamese posed no threat to me, or my fellow Americans. Neither did the Iraqis or the Afghans or the people of Grenada. I am tired of hearing how soldiers did this or that on my behalf. They have fought to control the world, on behalf of The American Empire and the plutocracy for which it stands. Please let me know when our enemies are storming Brighton Beach and I will do my part.
33
Fred,
But for the selfless commitment of millions of men and women, who put all in harm's way, during at least two wars in my lifetime, Brighton Beach would likely have been stormed a few decades ago.
While I agree that many wars we got involved in, and even started and or escalated, were opportunistic, either for economic or strategic purposes, several were about preserving some form of decency and reasonable existence for 100's of millions of souls, worldwide.
3
thanks. can you please offer several specific examples?
Bring back the draft. That way everyone has skin in the game
9
The draft caused domestic blowback during Vietnam. Our military and political leaders learned that lesson, but none of the other important lessons.
Negative. The draft would just give the old men in government a ready pool of cannon fodder from which to start more useless wars. This comes from a military veteran.
1
Wake up and smell the coffee. But for GWB, Syria would probably be peaceful.
6
The problem with American militarism is that the world has had enough of it. The US military has killed sixteen million people since the end of the Second World War in wars that violated international law. The USA must always have an enemy in order to justify its gigantic military industrial complex. The minute that communism was no longer the enemy, the USA made the Muslim world its enemy. That means one quarter of the world’s population. The USA bombed seven Muslim countries last year. Can you Americans name them? The major problem for many Americans is that they consider themselves to be Christians and they remember the sacred words “Blessed are the peacemakers.” I do not know how American Christians can live with their conscience.
28
Go ahead military and fight your endless wars. I won't be at the mall but i will be doing everything i can to oust Trump and keep another feckless person from becoming POTUS. Trump just used you to deflect attention from his own sordid life. Continue to strut on as you have been doing since the end of WW2.
11
We all know war is big business in the US and we're powerless to do anything about it. What, another $20B you say? Sure no prob!
We'll find a way to deal with our decaying infrastructure, ridiculous debt, inequality while China passes us by... but go right ahead pentagon. Keep spending!
12
It is important to separate the men and women who serve in uniform from the “political reasons” for sending them into harm’s way. The grumbling here at home was NEVER about the soldiers. It’s ALWAYS been about why they are being sent in the first place.
Our policies are disastrous! Every time we go into an area and kill innocent civilians who were otherwise minding their own business the worse the problem gets for the USA. “Collateral Damage” is the euphemism that is used for wiping out someone’s entire family unintentionally! The result, outraged remaining family members and friends, who were once peaceful, run as fast as they can to join ISIS or Al QADA. Collateral Damage is in the hundreds of thousands and is the best recruiting poster ever conceived. I do believe ISIS didn’t exist until we stuck our noses in where it didn’t belong and gave a reason for its creation.
The bottom line is that the longer we stay the worse it will get as more collateral damage brings in new recruits in droves!! Time to cut EVERYONE’S losses and get out!!
13
Support The Troops is a slogan designed to neuter opposition to our ruinous wars.
Defending Our Freedoms is perhaps the most dangerous lie of all. What freedoms would we have lost if we hadn’t invaded Iraq?
1
This columnist, knowingly or unknowingly, incorrectly recounted the shameful interaction between the widow of Sgt. LaDavid Johnson, killed in action in Niger, and Trump, who kept calling her husband "your guy" instead of by his name (Sgt. LaDavid Johnson) and told her "he knew what he signed up for." It was not the Democratic Congresswoman that first disputed Trump's shameful and disgusting lies about the call, but Myesha Johnson (the grieving widow), her mother, AND the Congresswoman. All three heard the call as Trump was on speakerphone. Kelly then told an elaborate lie about the black Florida Congresswoman, was confronted with the lie (as she was taped during the remarks Kelly referred to), and still never admitted his lies, showing his total lack of honesty and character. A small point, perhaps, but important when evaluating Kelly and other former soldier's attempts to silence and shame their civilian critics, especially since Kelly is now in the civilian, political arena.
13
I’ve served in the active and reserve components of the Army for the past 16 years.
Both the military and civilian classes have been corrupted over the past few decades. Without the draft, most civilians have no skin in the game for some of the questionable military actions we take as a country. They feel guilty about this as there’s not much to do aside from thanking veterans for their service.
The military, all too happy to be called heroes, has been corrupted by this rhetoric where too many servicemembers think themselves superior to the civilians they signed up protect. This is equally unhealthy, especially because our military was designed to be subordinate to civilians, not the other way around.
I doubt many people have an appetite for bringing back the draft, but it would go a long way to solving many issues we face as a country.
12
Every time I see a declaration that we should "support our troops", I mutter, "Yeah, bring them home."
I was in the Air Force for 8 years.
17
Reminds me of our anti-Vietnam War answer to the question the hawks would throw out, "but how can we bring out troops home?" which was "in ships."
4
And that is exactly what my purpose was at every anti-war in Viet Nam march and demonstration. Support our soldiers by bringing them home INTACT. And now we need to help put all soldiers that serve back together again, to make them whole, healthy and happy.
Please teach your children that happiness cannot be bought, it is only thru serving others with meaningful work and being a loving human being. I admire the steelworker, the garbage workers, the teachers who do the difficult work as much as those serving in the military.
2
Thank you for your service, and thank you for this trenchant piece. I will carry the phrase and underlying ethic behind your use of the term "patriotic correctness" into civilian life and deploy it wherever warranted.
One gripe. You're writing here in the NYT, to liberal readers overwhelmingly sympathetic to your challenges to Gen. Kelly and those on the right, who are - thought not alone - typically the most likely to brandish the sword and shield of "support the troops!"
The problem is I'd like to send them this article, but because it was written to persuade a like-minded audience of progressives, it will fall on deaf ears on the other side of the aisle. Trust me, I've already sent it to a Navy vet with a poster of Melania Trump in his garage. He called you several unprintable names....
Next time, think about how to better persuade those whose "patriotic correctness" you bemoan, rather than simply give NYT readers exactly what they want to hear. Because there's nothing "brave" about that, soldier.
4
The current administration’s attempt to shut down debate by claiming it disrespects fallen soldiers is basically the old 19th-century Republican post civil war tactic of “waving the bloody shirt” come back again, updated for the 21st century.
This was an illuminating piece. Cheers to the NYT and the author.
6
Occupying a Third World country isn't really being "at war."
3
It is for the people in the Third World country. They can't get to the mall.
2
Thank you, Mr. Klay.
3
I love you Philip and I love your riveting book REDEPLOYMENT. “ The Warrior At The Mall” is a penetrating piece on being in the war, coming home and now being a Dad.—— I’m scared with Trump, very scared. But... I asked a younger cousin who is a nyc firefighter if firefighters are scared when they go into a fire and he said with no hesitation, “ Of course we are but that’s what courage is. We just go in and do our job.”
I’m scared with Trump but I know have the courage to go in there and face the “fire.” I pray for your family. I’m sure you are a terrific father,
2
Thank you for your thoughtful essay.
3
Wow! Easily the best Op-Ed in a long time!
4
I grew up in the Army and I served in the Army. Soldiers are the same as everybody else, man ... no better and no worse. (I guess I'd include the Marines...) The hard thing is remembering that everybody -- including the enemy -- is a human being. War is a thing that when it happens, we all suffer. Hate is not a thing you can point at somebody else ... if you cultivate hatred, it lives in your own heart. Don't do that. Hate is a weapon, but it's not your weapon -- it's the devil's weapon. Leave it alone.
Anyone with any wisdom at all, prays for peace. Any major dude will tell you that.
8
Right on, Phil. Right on! OIF 2.1, OIF 10
John Kelly has disdain for civilians and those who haven't served, AND YET he serves a draft dodger. One would think his disdain for a man who evaded service would be even deeper.
8
The only meaningful way to thank a veteran for his or her service is to do our best to ensure that our military is well led by its civilian leadership. When we thank a veteran it’s really to make ourselves feel good. Working to ensure that our military is well led feels less rewarding but is far more important.
7
So admirable that the government highly honors men and women in the military. Any correlation between the publicity and the fact that college students are not eligible to receive financial aid unless they have first registered for selective service? That makes service not so voluntary.
It is also sex discrimination in its present form.
Someone should remind that special forces officer that he is no more or less important than any other bureaucrat in the federal government, and that as far asit goes, he is simply a civil servant with an over inflated sense of self importance.
3
The civilian population of this nation has never experienced the horrors of warfare on their own shores since the civil war, namely modern warfare where bombs are raining down, parents and children have to run to bunkers when sirens go off, food and other supplies are scarce and rationed, etc.,etc.
Wars by US troops fought on foreign shores don't change their way of life and following their favorite hobby, shopping.
The constant refrain of their thanking our troops for their service is as fake as their knowledge why and where the US is fighting wars to begin with.
8
I'm a 34 year veteran who wants nothing to do with veterans advocacy, affairs, support, aggrandizement, or ceremonies. Please understand.
5
This piece needs to be promoted aggressively. It's one of the most intellectually honest and captivating stories I've seen for a long time. The author has a real talent and an important story.
14
Thank you for this and thank you for articulating the destructive concept of “patriotic correctness” so well. I remember in the time of Desert Storm while living in a small apartment complex here in Maine being the only resident who didn’t tape a yellow ribbon to my front door. These were provided to all the residents of the complex by a neighbor who was also a former Marine. This is when the elder president Bush through a very successful public relations push conflated a lack of support for the invasion with a lack of support for our troops and a lack of patriotism. The looks of comtempt from my neighbors at my refusal to put up that damn ribbon all those years ago represent to me the beginning of the cultural divide that is tearing our country apart.
5
A somewhat similar experience: several ugly, threatening calls I received after a few LTEs as the Iraq invasion/occupation unfolded - while I and others pointed out that (a) it wasn't in our interest to do so because it would put the Shia in charge, strengthening Iran and producing angry, violent Sunnis; and (b) there was no evidence whatsoever of WMDs.
You have a good point. But at the same time don’t be so hard on our war-weary, grizzled grunts, who you were once among. If they find comfort from their loneliness and boredom punctuated by wild firefights or indirect fires in (what now could literally be) Timbuktu with some cynical snark about homefront apathy (Niger? Is that in the Caribbean?), can we really blame them? Btw, great writing, and congrats on your new little Marines. I’d go with 6M, not 3 - 6M.
2
Mr. Klay - have you considered public office? If this piece is any indication, you have much to offer.
6
The comments by Kelly and others denigrating civilians is the inverse of civilians spitting on Vietnam war vets in the 1960s and 70s. Both gestures are deeply unpatriotic.
I am self-employed and have been for years. Every day I know that if I don't earn a paycheck, nobody gives me anything. Kelly has had the comfort for a paycheck paid by my taxes and supplied by my government his whole adult life. Where is his gratitude for my service to him?
The vicious attitudes both sides can engender serve no purpose. I would love to get off my high mighty horse, if Kelly and his ilk will get off theirs.
1
It's important in this context to remember that the image of returning Vietnam vets being spit on by anti-war protesters is essentially an urban legend reinforced by movies like Taxi Driver, Coming Home and Rambo. This was covered well in a book titled "The Spitting Image: Myth, Memory, and the Legacy of Vietnam" by Jerry Lembcke. Unfortunately, this false but durable narrative has played a big role in creating our current military-civilian split.
2
Funny how the author has just ASSUMED the coiner of the phrase was 'he'. Not woke yet, clearly. Secondly: ours is a professional army; as such, it is comprised of the low(er) class, mostly minority men and women, who the "middle-class" (read: majority) of Americans do not identify with, even visually. Third: at what point and how has not shopping at a mall become synonymous with carrying about our soldiers fighting wars? How would it benefit them if I (or the author, for that matter) stopped shopping for diapers?
As a retired sailor I try to remember some memorable words from a first class I once worked for... real warriors don’t speak about their battles and when you hear someone who is talking about his .... ignore him he wasn’t there
3
Well written and thoughtful. Just the kind of public discourse we should be having
thanks to the author
5
I am just adding on to what has posted already.
But you cannot say enough. Really, when is the
last time the USA won a war? 1945? And the Congress
keeps piling on funding for what? The Top
Brass is more adept at maintaining stars and bars than they
are at dealing with skirmishes and battlefields.
Just look at Syria. They throw a total of 160 missiles at Assad at cost of $1.6 million apiece. The first time
Assad was back in the air the next morning after a full breakfast and the next time Assad shows up for work in his
Ermenegildo Zegna suit and Berluti briefcase ready for his phone call from Putin. Meanwhile we spent almost 200 million dollars while 11 million Syrians are displaced. Who won? Who lost? Why?
2
I found this piece marvelously empathic and even-handed....and, damn, was it well-written.
7
My son served in the Marines and was in the invasion of Iraq. He was recalled and served a second tour in 2007. I once told him that I thought it was a mistake to eliminate the draft. His response was that if he had to go to war, he only wanted to do that with Marines who wanted to be there. The whole point of an all volunteer military is let the sliver of American society who want to fight do the fighting, and let the rest of us do nothing. That’s why no one cares if we are in Niger until something goes bad. It’s never going to change without a draft which makes everyone do the fighting. Then everyone would care about where we are and what we’re doing.
187
I was thinking we should all do service, but can choose combat roles if eligible. I wonder what others think. This is a valuable discussion already! Many thanks to Mr. Klay.
8
So in other words someone should be conscripted to fight in wars with no moral or ethical underpinnings? These "wars" are being fought to make rich people richer. Until you see that there is no hope for you.
8
A coercive draft is not the answer. It only provides an unfettered source of young bodies for old men to squander in foolish foreign interventions. What would have been the historical arc had we had NO draft in the Vietnam era? Would YOU have volunteered for that pointless morass? Could it not have ended YEARS (and thousands of lives) sooner?
5
Let's not forget that some (Haliburton, Blackwater, and other military contractors) have a vested interest in the concept of endless war. They are making billions from the corpses not only of our military men and women, but also the dead bodies of citizens in the countries we invade. Do they care? Not one little bit.
7
Great article. Capitalism (the mall) is rotting. One can see it in our children, society and government (remember 9/11 when we were ordered to buy cars?). Yet, this hegemony is so ingrained that the supply of actors willing to continue to support these lunatic tactics shows no sign of subsiding. The cars keep getting bigger, the egos grow and capitilism thrives like an evasive species.
A deeply thoughtful piece about what it really means to be a citizen.
3
There are many ways to serve our country besides serving in the Military. But there is a major distinction. By serving in the Military, you are telling the country, “Do with me whatever you please”. You don’t have the option of saying “No”, and walking away with no penalty. That is a big commitment, that places a lot of trust in the wisdom of our leaders. I would not want to serve under Trump.
3
We need the draft. Then maybe Congress will fulfill it's constitutional responsibility. (Maybe draft a few politicians as well.)
The sentiment appears in Michener's "The Bridges at Toko-Ri" about the Korean war - page 84 on my Kindle version.
The moral struggles of the fighting class would have more impact if their turmoil was over wars that were worth prosecuting. They are the unfortunate 1%, and are as detached from ordinary American life as the other 1% billionaires as they select the wood grain for their private jet’s interior.
1
Well written and needed to be said. I hope other media outlets pick this up. We need multiple voices pointing out patterns that could fuel a slide into totalitarianism.
2
Great piece. Well said.
2
Well written, well said. I will only add this. More parents should have talked their kids out of volunteering for the first wave of sign ups precipitated by the disease of war fever back in 01/02. If you don't have fodder you can't shoot the cannon. Should have let lifers like Kelly fight the multiple front conflicts, since that was what they seemed to want to do all the time.
2
And by further extension, only a veteran dare write an article like this. Thanks for doing it.
7
I'm not sure that's right. I think a lot of people who have not been in the military have made similar observations. It has always been in the interest of the military leadership to drive a wedge between military participants and their civilian counterparts, benignly to create camaraderie, more cynically to discourage criticism and oversight.
It just takes courage to take a moral stand against the fetishizing of the military in our society.
3
My neighbor has 3 generations of West Point grads. The youngest did 3 duty tours in Afghanistan, and now has failing liver from alcoholism.
Those families are paying a huge price, while most of America spends their capital on the latest fads and waste of funds.
Heartbreaking.
And we have a draft dodging Prez, to boot.
2
How many folks here have been outrage at the military recruiters that haunt public schools, preying on kids in their endless search for "volunteers" to fight endless wars that cause nothing but pain to people across the globe? You can get the recruiters out of the schools, and stop yet another generation from normalizing endless war"
7
Wow! This is truly one of the most balanced, most thoughtful, and honest discussions of the relationship between the US Military and the Civilization population they represent, that I have read in a long time. The author nails numerous issues I have been profoundly concerned about for decades... issues I first studied in depth in College, and never left behind.
I too am greatly disturbed by the disconnect between the military and the rest of us - and the increasing role of the military leadership, and some government officials, in promoting that divide. It’s led us to a dangerous place indeed. We have a President uniquely unqualified like none before, leading our military, making military policy, with his finger on the nuclear trigger. General Kelly tells us to shut up and sit down - that we don’t have a voice and don’t deserve one.
Nothing could be further from the truth! Our country was deliberately formed so that we would NOT have a Warrior Class: that civilians would make up the military, and they controlled the military. It’s the disconnect from this sacred bond that has led us to think a Trump in charge of the world’s largest military is OK. Or, that we can teeter on the brink of nuclear war with the DPRK, or a major conflict that We Start with Iran or Russia - and just shrug and go about our lives.
We have strayed far from the Founder’s ideals. We need to find our way back, before Stupidity claims us all in some pointless, world altering conflict.
346
Thanks for a great piece. Patriotic correctness has made a basic fact unspeakable: troops who fight in unjustified wars are not defending our freedoms or the American way of life while doing so. Death in such service serves no purpose. It's just travesty.
7
Mr Klay much more right than wrong with his observations on the military, veterans, civilians and especially politicians. But I think he misses an important point in any discussion on this topic.
As a Vietnam veteran who saw some action in support of ground engagements in I Corp (~15% of my 150+ hours flown were CA), I completely resonate with the "we're at war while the civilians are at the mall" irony. The big difference then was the draft. More of us were at the war than today's vastly unequal sharing of the burden.
True, in the 60s and early 70s college deferments exacerbated by selective access to the National Guard and by highly suspect medical deferments accentuated the difference between those who served and those who skated. But there was enough of a mix of socio-economic-educational segments of our population to make a discussion of shared experiences possible.
Today that is not true. Somehow a collective guilt over the (somewhat exaggerated) poor treatment of returning Nam veterans, combined with the elimination of the draft has led to a false veneration of today's military.
Worse, it has absolved civilians from any consequence for the actions of leaders who engage us in wars of political ambition. The repeated tours of duty by today's grunts is a shameful embarrassment of our people.
By letting "Mikey" do it, civilians have earned the contempt of those who served. It doesn't make it right, but it helps to understand some veterans' attitude.
5
Here in Oklahoma, decades of angry recriminations about bad treatment of vets has coexisted with almost religious deference toward them. Recognition in venues from baseball games to church services, thanks from strangers, whether the service was long or short, in combat or desk-bound. Those lacking this deference had better watch out, like the community college teacher who said that perhaps not everyone in uniform really was a hero per se--and ended up on the nightly news apologizing after the protests against him. The real trouble I see is with those cutting funding for medical care and holding down pay for troops. That's not the many and varied civilians you say have earned contempt. They have not. That's those who bleed our treasury for tax cuts, and you know who they are.
2
I was raised in a military family and I have always had great respect for the men and women who have served our country. I am also a liberal. The two things are not, and have never been, mutually exclusive. Patriotism is multifaceted and involves every level of society. It does not belong exclusively to the men and women being sent to war--or to cynical media personalities and mediocre politicians. Excellent essay.
21
Excellent piece. I have great respect for the unique experiences of veterans who have faced the horrors of combat and how that can affect them, but I do not support the unbridled adulation of all things military in this country. Gone are the days of the draft, when people (men) were conscripted without choice, so that the term "sacrifice" could easily be applied. Today's younger veterans chose to serve their country in the military for whatever reason - for many, it was to have a job that provided training and lifetime benefits and to feel noble for defending the country. However, those who choose to teach our children, provide social services, work in government, or really, work at any job in this country are also serving the country and defending it by participating in our democracy and our economy. Those who serve in the military are doing a job, just as are those who do not, and being in the military does not make them superior or more worthy of adulation than anyone else. They would not be where they are if we didn't have jobs that allow us to pay taxes to support them. It's fine to respect what they have done, but why would we not also show the same respect for teachers, social workers, street cleaners, trash haulers, plumbers, and anyone else who does a job that helps us all maintain our daily lives as Americans? Love the term "patriotic correctness" btw.
13
Too often, the news covers everything at the personal level because that is the only way to hook the viewer or reader in 2018. Then we fall into the trap that the personal experience is a guide for a larger problem. Across the political spectrum, we lack the ability to determine or discuss the proper geopolitical strategy for our country. We do, however, have plenty of time to use a phone call to a bereaved mother as a proxy for that discussion. Of course, every single adult citizen in our country should have an equal say in the proper role of our military forces in the world’s many issues. That military uses their resources. Its acts are every citizen’s actions. That does not mean every citizen can comment equally on every microscopic action of that military. The John Kelley speech was about the latter, not the former.
The note from the commander that ordered a child into harm’s way to the parent is unique to the military. As noted, many people, FBI agents, Peace Corps, CDC staff, serve in potentially hazardous roles. Except for the military, every one of them can simply say “No, I am out of here.” Regardless of career and financial negatives, they legally get to choose. Men and women in the military cannot opt out except to prison. They must follow the commander’s decisions. Many times those decisions end in death. General Kelley, someone on both sides of the call, felt the subject at hand, not our role in Niger, was not one where everyone had equal say.
2
What an awesome piece. I am so glad that someone has finally had the guts to stand up to the mindless jingoism that has come to dominate any discussion of the role of the military in our society. The author capture critical issues around the entire question of the "professional warrior class" against which people from the Founding Fathers all the way up to Dwight Eisenhower warned us. Thank you so much.
12
I've always been bothered by the notion that the only service that is recognized in this country is military service. My Dad served in WWII, but the service he was most proud of was as a public servant, as one of the first employees of the Social Security Administration in 1935, and later at the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard, where he was known as the conscience of the accounting department for his commitment to protecting the expenditures of taxpayers money. It's time we recognize the contributions that teachers, city planners, public health nurses, police and the many, many other public servants make to a safe, healthy and productive society. Like soldiers, many of these people also put themselves in harms way for us ...but that is not the only measure of the value of the patriotic service they provide for the rest of us.
23
Beautiful call to civic action and shared responsibility for our country and her actions. Thank you.
10
This piece inspires citizenship and patriotism more than anything I’ve heard from leaders on any level. Thanks for your CONTINUING service.
23
May be the best essay I read in years. In 1972 I entered the US army as a Second Lieutenant , was pretty quickly promoted to 1st Lieutenant , because of a grad school quirk, given a training company of Second Lieutenants, and then asked if I wanted to be RIF'ed out [discharged because of "reduction in force"] after alittle more than 6 months, I took it. It makes me laugh or sad when people thank me for my service the same as those who served in Vietnam or overseas.
13
Wow, beautifully written. Made my day. Thank you Phil for sharing your thoughts and making me feel less spongy.
22
Terrific article. Most of us "sponge people" really do appreciate the sacrifices made by our military. But the patriotic correctness that makes an American flag pin a necessary accessory for politicians, and prompts public applause at sporting events for veterans, distorts the value that all of us bring to society. I wish for once we could honor the teachers who help mold our young people, or the firefighters who keep us safe in our homes, or the guy who runs the sewage treatment plant so our waters are clean. Let's appreciate the military with clear eyes while also acknowledging that many Americans choose to contribute to their country in different, but important, ways.
50
Phil, a great piece of writing. As a former Marine officer with 3 combat tours in Vietnam, a 7-month tour in Iraq as a DoD contractor, and a one-year tour as a USAID Field Program Officer embedded with the Marines in Helmand and Nimroz provinces, I applaud your words. I was happy to get home but did not deride the people in the US who were protecting and serving. I was happy to be in the company of Marines who felt the same sense of duty and sacrice as me.
22
I think our national recognition of the unfairness of the treatment of soldiers returning from Vietnam led us to go too far in the other direction...treating veterans as unquestionable paragons of virtue and heroism who get to “own” all discussions of the military and its role in our foreign policy. Thank you for trying to push us towards a more thoughtful discussion, without the barriers of patriotic correctness...and for reminding us that we all have a responsibility to be engaged citizens.
48
The most important war we are fighting is an innovation conflict with China. Engineers have emerged as the Tip of the Spear. So let’s start thanking engineers for their service and fund healthcare and tech battle benefits for life. And get our priorities straight!
22
The tip of the spear is every one of us working today, or having worked a lifetime, making a contribution to the lives of those around us. The simple heroism of caring when people don't thank you for it, of trying your best when no one notices but needs it, of sharing a lift when there's no seeming reward at all. People are making lives better in just about every walk of life if we had eyes to see and hearts to appreciate. So here's to you, people of good will in this rough world, wherever you are today.
21
This is a sobering and insightful piece. it takes a large dollop of courage to discuss a political correctness that prevents critical discussion of the American military and how our leadership on both sides of the aisle wields military power.. So much has changed when my generation struggled with a war, a military whose disgraced political and military leadership lied and led this country through a tragedy that still echoes however faintly these days. This political correctness, the warrior class, of which the author writes, often conjure up a military very different from the image one gets when the author refers to the "grunt.". How different would these times be if we didn't insulate the warrior class that still served in the Middle East, the special forces that apparently serve in some 140 locations around the world and had we maintained a draft that depended on the fact that citizen soldiers and a greater swath of our population had skin in the game? We need to remember that in the Vietnam Era, it was the returning grunt who often led the criticism and gave wide segments of our population "permission" for America to turn against that war.
27
Thank you for this beautiful, insightful, and critically truthful essay. There is so much in this piece worthy of more discussion. Why are we at war? What are our objectives? And what is the proper use of a military when we are (can you imagine?) NOT at war? Why is a civilian government so fundamental to democracy and how we ensure its survival in a nation that is "in love" with war and now seems to define itself by them? Mr. Kay, thank you for your service both in and out of the military.
46
After 25 years of war with a volunteer army, most Americans really are at the mall while the volunteers are at war. As much as I dislike the idea of the draft, I support it as a better policy. Until the middle class is affected there is no interest in our wars. Notice I said nothing about the rich. For draft or not, they like Mr. Trump do not serve.
Republican neocons are always finding a potential war they like. Currently it is Syria. Beware and Resist!
23
The statement that the rich do not serve is simply not true. Take a look at Will Huntsman, graduate of the United States Naval Academy who selected Navy SEAL's as his Service Selection. His father Jon Huntsman is the current Ambassador to Russia. There are many others of lesser means than the Huntsman family that serve and would still be considered "rich". Jon Huntsman never used his son for any political gain that I have seen.
3
Murray, I think that what Tom meant is draft or not the rich do not have to serve and many did not in the Vietnam era. I'm sure we could find many examples of people from rich families serving while we had a draft even then. And we could find a lot of examples of rich young men who managed to get dubious deferments.
As an aside, I just googled Will Huntsman who is reported to be exactly as you described but is only 25 years old so is not an example of some who was subject to the draft.
The last thing in the world that the Military needs is a draft where there are people in the Military that do not want to be there. That said, I do support the idea of tying 1-2 years of service (Peace Corps, Military, working with Special Needs population, Faith Based volunteers...) to attending college.
For the author's young children, not negotiating the American way of living large, as symbolized by the "mall", on energy and resources -- now the model for the planet's 7 billion people to follow -- and continuing our war on earth will have great consequence to their future freedom and prosperity. To see our ill advised foreign ventures as opportunity costs in this context is, too, our duty to see beyond borders of space and time.
4
Great article, and very timely. I'm appalled by the number of military officers in today's Trump administration, and the warmongers he is choosing as advisers, and even Secretary of State.
23
Don’t mistake a military person for a warmonger. Those who have tough wars are the most likely to try to avoid it. Do recall Colin Powell’s reaction to Madeleine Albright’s nitwitted rhetorical question about the value of having a great military if you’re not going to use it, as if the military’s existence alone justified its use.
Who at the shopping mall can tell you why we are at war? Ask someone. We assumed after 911 that "military actions" were needed to ensure our safety. Twenty years later, soldiers stand with guns in Penn Station, but are we safe? Too little has been done to support the sacrifices of our soldiers because there is not enough understanding of the reality behind our fears. There is even less understanding of international politics among the voting populace. Was 911 possible because of lax security? Budget cuts to basic security in the Republican "cut it all" fallacy? Did lax citizens fail to question the acts of the questionable? Was the design of those building also at fault? Should children learn about foreign lands in school during their four day school week? We freely give monetary support to stoke national fears and anxiety, blessed by mass media and a tax code which helps stocks grow but personal savings shrink. The poorer places sacrifice the most for the emotional security of places like shopping malls. There are no real jobs in those small towns, but we ask young men and women to make the ultimate sacrifice without knowing why. No worry for the wealthy, whose kids plan the next start up in their "Ivy" dorm room. We worry about terrorists from far away but our own citizens are legally armed, even at church. We honor the fallen with humble thanks and contrition for our own lack of understanding of the "why" of this endless war.
23
First of all I thank Mr Lay for putting his life on the line for me and my family. Second, I thank him for his honesty in describing his perspectives on both the Military and civilians who did not serve.
I have respect and admiration for the men and women who joined to serve and protect this country.
However I lack respect for those Generals, Military advisors, Administration officials and Presidents who lied to the American people and our countrymen and women who served as foot soldiers because of their lies.
This happened in Vietnam Nam, and every war since then.
And with the Administration we now have, I trust nothing that comes out of their mouths. And definitely nothing that they do.
36
Mr. Klay ably highlights our complex relationship between military, veterans, and civilians. He is correct that respect is due to those who today volunteer for military service and for those who return or remain home to care for other Americans.
Yet, respect is also due to those who serve and served in the Peace Corps, AmeriCorps, and the hundreds of organizations that work to improve health care, end hunger, and achieve social justice in places of poverty. They wear no uniforms, but many do have the physical and psychological scars of battle.
I have friends who have served under attack in Afghanistan to help rebuild their health system and plunged headlong into the Ebola crisis in Liberia. Yes, they worried about their safety, but they were impelled to serve because these were places of need. They get no parades, nor would they want them. Yet their service commitment ranks at a par with those who wear uniforms and walk into battle.
Perhaps one day we will recognize their contributions in teaching, healing, and building strong societies as the best America offers itself and the world. They are patriots too.
66
We were supposed, as I recall, to learn a lesson from Vietnam. The only lesson we appeared to learn was to avoid public scrutiny by not drafting people. And it worked. It created a warrior class of people who could be safely worshiped and safely used with impunity. It created a warrior class and that does a disservice to all of us.
55
You're right, of course, but we need to look a little deeper into the creation of the "warrior class." The objective of those who voted for an "all volunteer" army was to emasculate the potential protests of foreign policy that involved projecting "American interests" over human ones.
Excellent article. But left out is the money factor. War is a big money machine and, as we all know, or should know, money trumps everything in the US. Always has and always will.
If war weren't so profitable we would do it much less. As it is, the military industrial complex can, in addition to the fear factor, play the patriot card and politicians love to tout their patriotism.
War is the gift that keeps on giving. Think about a business where your product is seen as essential to the government and its unlimited amounts of money, and after the product is purchased, it is destroyed so more of it is needed.
It's a bird nest on the ground.
58
Does anyone ever notice that we either have the silly conversations the author describes or conversations about having the conversations we should have but we never get around to having. We never actually get around to the conversations we are supposed to have.
First the author tells us that we require “a complex, sustained discussion about how America projects force around the world, about expanding the use of Special Operations forces to 149 countries, and about whether we are providing those troops with well-thought-out missions and the resources to achieve them in the service of a sound and worthwhile national security strategy.”
But then instead of doing that he goes off on screed against John Kelly and rehashes a story everyone already has forgotten to tell us once again we don’t talk about the right things. Only, neither does he, all he gives us is another tired old conversation about how they are bad, and we are good.
Ridiculous. I am so tired of the conversations we keep having. And it is up to the Times to change them.
2
I suggest you look at today’s front page, where there is an article about Trump’s goals, or yesterday’s editorial on Syria, or any of the myriad considerations of Bolton’s support for the Iraq war. There is constant reporting on and discussions of our militaristic foreign policy. This opinion piece is about why these aren’t heard.
With all due respect, you are wrong. It is up to you and all other Americans to change those conversations. The author has done his part, now it's our turn.
2
The big problem is that we don't have the information to have those conversations. I have done a thought-only try to understand why and at least with regard to those 140 plus special forces operations I would guess that the information is so granular In each case that public cost benefit anaysis would disclose operational details and thus secrecy can be "justified". It is still dificult to sneak four coffins at a time back to the US so we learned a little bit about the operations in Niger.
Since the end of WW2 the American public has not be inconvenienced by our overseas adventures. Until I went to Vietnam (71-72), life went as always around me. It was a normal life. Demonstrations against the war were on the news and the "honor roll" of the dead ran at the end of the nightly news. No ration cards, no fuel shortages, no scrap metal drives, the average American went about their day to day unaffected by the war. When we came home from our war we were largely unnoticed. I think we also need to remember that honoring and respecting the men and women who fight this war should not include damping down concerns about the conducting of these wars.
The notion that not running these wars all the way to victory is somehow a betrayal of those who've fallen is fundamentally false. There's an old principal in project management for when you decide to cut your losses and end one. It's no how much you've spent you should worry about, it's how much you're going to spend. In the case of our current wars I'm less concerned with money than the young lives lost or destroyed by these never ending conflicts.
19
Phil, this is a beautiful piece of writing and thinking. Thank you for approaching the dichotomy between warriors and civilians with such insight. Loved every word.
89
Every citizen should be afforded and required service to our always and still great country. School or hospital worker, warrior, carpenter, artist, civil servant or engineer, every one of these serve our society and make us what we are. In exchange for this stipend paid service would be free school or training, maybe a cash bonus upon leaving service. If everyone could be an active part of service to and for our country, it would go a long way toward reuniting our warrior families with the rest of us to the benefit of the country.
24
It’s what I’ve been saying all along. Service to the country should be mandatory for every high school graduate. It does not need to be military service. It could be working for Habitat for Humanity or any number of worthwhile causes. At the end of one’s service, they are rewarded with the benefits, such as free school. An educated person is much more likely to find a job with a liveable wage. Crime would drop as a result. Our educational system alone would help the United States compete in global markets without the need to tariffs, because the quality of our products would sell themselves.
I remember very well the sense of shock that I had when I returned from combat in Vietnam for a short leave during Easter 1967 and saw people my age just enjoying the beautiful Spring weather without any thought about me and my friends. It was as though our country had two parts; one part fighting in horrible conditions, seeing death nearly every day and another, larger part that just enjoyed the benefits of safety and freedom. Worse, some of those safe and comfortable people at home were carrying the enemy's flag back then and chanting that the "enemy will win".
So when I heard that anonymous Marine make the comment about "being at war while America's at the mall" I understood exactly what he meant.
It was a clear description of the sense of isolation that we who have risked our lives during our wars have felt while the rest of our country didn't even notice that we were gone.
12
Thank you for your service. However, please remember that people enjoying the sunshine, shopping at the mall, etc, doesn't define the American experience. Children of color are threatened and shot at every day simply for existing. Children are growing up in dire poverty, in dangerous neighborhoods. Gay and trans people are beaten. Women, children, and some men are sexually assaulted. You may not have been thinking about them when you were, understandably, immersed in your own struggle for survival, but they are struggling too.
I can not imagine how you feel about what you wrote here, back then and now.
I understand your point, Susan - but the suffering of many at home because of criminals and predators continues because human beings are flawed and our justice system hasn't worked very well.
Those things that we in the infantry encountered specifically to keep the Vietnamese people free from a very vicious enemy and we lost our own people every single day - including 400 dead in one week from our Division during Operation Hastings in 1966. We had hot, humid weather, sleeplessness, fear, disease, insects, and snakes besides the enemy to deal with - and the constant pummeling of bad news from home and our own people campaigning for the enemy.
It was very hard to be faced with an ungrateful and even abusive homecoming after all we had been through and survived.
Not exactly the same as civilians encountered, even the tragedy of crime.
Well said. A common bumper sticker in Canada says "if you dont stand behind our forces feel free to stand in front of them". This mentality is often used to stifle debate on foreign policy, military budgets, and the buying of super expensive equipment (most recently the F35 purchase). While I cannot imagine the horrors of being in a warzone, debate on the military should not be stifled by fearmongers and military equipment lobby groups that have crafted and encourage these mantras.
48
I appreciate your thoughtful reflections and insight on "patriotic correctness" regarding the military. I remember my WWII veteran father often musing about how being a veteran made no one any more or less virtuous. There was a fair share of slackers and scoundrels, and the vast majority who served never saw a shot fired in anger. My father respected, but never genuflected before the military. Washington as you so rightly point out, had a similar perspective. So should we all.
53
The fact that we are not engaged in a national conversation about America's role in maintain world order (or in reinforcing the security of autocrats whose position benefits us one way or the other) is a sin.
Thank you for contributing to that conversation.
19
I deployed to the Middle East in 2004 then returned to spend the next few years in San Diego with the Navy. Weekend dinner was usually at a crowded spot in La Jolla where it often occurred to me that few of the surrounding conversations had much to do with Americans at war.
7
Nobody's listening to the dummies who are working to pay for it anyway
The sentiment "we are at war while they are at the mall" is not new. I am a Viet Nam War vet (infantry platoon/company CO) and while there were no malls at the time, many if not most of us in the "boonies" felt that "back in the world" they were having a good time. And of course we did not receive even the token appreciation now showered, justifiably, on those who risk life and limb for the nation.
12
Thank you for saying this. If we civilians (and we veterans that are now civilians) can't honestly discuss why we are at war, it really calls into question what these wars are supposed to be protecting.
68
This particularly excellent article reminds us that the greatest generation in WWII wasn't the greatest solely because it saved the world from extinction but also because they had Mr Klay's
inner reflections sufficient to rebuild "all" of the rest of the world it had just saved.
22
How well said, this. It is indeed a pleasure to read concise, intelligent prose.
25
Governing a country, the more I think and learn about it, is like trying to herd cats: Every individual goes in a unique direction for unique reasons at unique speeds. And don't dare to make that individual go in the direction you choose. So how do you unify and govern 325 million cats?
Granted: If the warmongers had to suit up and go into battle in the first wave, they -- many of them -- would have serious second thoughts about the wisdom of this military effort. Shouldn't we give diplomacy one more chance, they would ask. This scenario, of course, will never happen, but it's nonetheless eye-opening as a thought-experiment of having "skin in the game."
OTOH, however, do we owe our government our very lives? The government makes you go to school until age 16; you must pay a variety of taxes your entire working life; you must obey a zillion laws from womb to tomb; and you are always subject to imprisonment for acts that you might consider your own business, like smoking marijuana. Then, you suggest, as an adult, you, as a free adult, must "serve" your country for two years. To fight for your freedom? That seems more than a little illogical.
The TV man says "Come to Shell for answers." I say, come to me for questions; I ain't got no answers, or at least very few that satisfy more than a few cats. But the talk is interesting and must, or should, be done. We must make decisions and act in this world, even if we choose to do nothing -- that's a choice.
14
Questions will get us farther than answers....(ever notice who has the answers?)
2
When Bush said go shopping, I almost vomited. The crazy horror of cowards in office calling out soldiers to go to war to fulfill some kind of sick cowboy revenge fantasy. Multiple tours, and other weirdness. And now we're facing that again, with an even more deranged moron in the WH armed with $700 billion DoD budget. Yet most of us are still in our bubble.
55
Excellent article. I remember Bobby Kennedy telling a skeptical (not to say hostile) audience at Harvard that the draft and a citizen's military were pillars of democratic government. Time has proven him right. We should re-institute the draft. We should all share in support our nation through a period of national service. Period.
50
I dodged the draft - student, fatherhood - but still agree, and would not have fled to Canada if my number had come up in the lottery. The prospect of personally going to war sharpens one's attention to current events.
5
We should reinstitute the draft for national service, not just military but social services as well. If all citizens had a shared responsibility it might go a long way to evening out our differences. In uniform, you can't tell who's rich and privileged and who isn't.
8
I totally agree that we should re-institute the draft. I hated the Vietnam war, but i volunteered to serve my country (in a non-combat role). Mandatory service to country would go a long way toward re-uniting our many factions. It would help keep us out of the many areas of conflict we now blithely join. And most importantly, it would temper the evolution of a military elite that, otherwise, will some day feel entitled to take over this country to "save" us from ourselves. I mean NO disrespect in that last statement, but when you have a group with great power and little connection to the common man, the entitled attitude is inevitable. We avoid a draft at great peril to our democracy.
8
Beyond it's tragic impact on the Vietnamese, that war's legacy was disastrous as it led us to end the draft. There are many ways to serve. I don't think that's the core point, although it's a valid one. The real problem with the abolition of the draft is that in the first instance it bifurcates American cultural life between civilian and military concepts of service. Thus begins a life-long cultural divide in America. The solution is a return to the draft without exceptions or deferments. While DOD hates the draft and it would admittedly reduce operational efficiency, America as a nation would gain immensely. Firstly, all Americans should have skin in the game. Secondly -- and just as importantly -- the many American civilian myths about military culture would be exposed to the light of day. We have a great military in America; arguably the greatest ever, anywhere Earth. But history shows that nations which worship their warmaking capacity invariably fall victim to it. John Kelly is a symptom, not the malady itself. The national illness is that we now have two cultures: Americans who would consider enlisting and/or accepting a commission in the military and those who wouldn't think of it. This must change.
40
See my reply to the previous comment. I couldn't agree more with this one. The failure to require service to our country via a draft, or something equivalent, is a long term danger to our democracy.
6
As an Air Force veteran, I agree with much of what you say. My Father was a career Army officer who served in Vietnam at the height of the war in 1968. I was in sixth grade at the time and forced to go to a civilian school for the first time in my life. I was beaten up my first week of school when my classmates found out my Father was serving in Vietnam. I was mercilessly bullied the entire year, especially about my crewcut. My Father received no civilian recognition for his service and sacrifice in Vietnam either. It is wonderful that our society today more fully recognizes the sacrifices our men and women in uniform make.
When I served in the 80's in the Air Force, there was neither undue hatred or adulation of those in uniform. But what I have always believed is that a national draft or some form of compulsory service for all is absolutely essential to preventing unnecessary wars and having a society that is fully vested in any and all military pursuits. If we had that, everyone would know about Niger and what our troops were doing there or, perhaps, they wouldn't be there at all. And we should never use mercenaries like Blackwater, an utterly obscene practice in my view.
As for General Kelly, I too recognize his service and sacrifice to this country. But that never entitles anyone to utter blatantly false, racist statements about an African American Congresswoman and never apologize for it. By behaving in that manner, he demeans the service of us all.
153
I can somewhat understand why members of our military feel frustration with our civilians. My grandfather was a WWII vet as were his brothers, cousins, uncle's, and friends. Because of the draft 16.1 million Americans served an average of 16 months and then they came home. WWII only lasted 6 years. Those who couldn't serve as soldiers were very involved in the war effort at home. The entire country served in whatever capacity they were able.
We've been at war for nearly two decades yet less than 3 million Americans have served in our military. Most of our troops are doing back to back deployments. Yes there are amazing foundations trying to serve our veterans but most Americans don't even give the fact that we're at war a single thought. We're not remotely engaged in doing our part to support the war effort.
Yes we should absolutely question military actions that our country is engaged in. Part of being a good citizen is being aware of what's being done in our name. But what does it say about us that Prince William and Harry both served their country despite their privilege while most of us can't be bothered to do so. Our own president avoided the draft by faking a medical condition. No wonder our troops are bitter. They think we don't care about their sacrifice and we haven't done anything to indicate otherwise.
29
If this war had a point, or a goal, I think we would see a lot more support for it. We are exhausted and sick of war. We're over there fighting "the war on terror," which of course has no definition, no goals, no boundaries. Will it ever end? There will ALWAYS be terrorists. Was that the point in starting "the war on terror"? An unending war, so the Military Industrial Complex could be fed, and the elites could get richer, and engorge themselves on their ever increasing wealth? Who needs tax cuts when you have defense contractor stocks? Yet, now they have BOTH. My mind is spinning with conspiracy thoughts.......
3
But the vets can get a 10% discount at auto zone woo hoo
1
Thank you, Mr Klay, both for your service and for this comment. You speak my mind well though more gently and compellingly than I am able. I served this country with youthful optimism as well, though not as long or as dangerously as you have, and I have recently been reflecting often. I am blessed to be well on from those onesie buying days. Thanks too for your engagement now in our national conversations. The various columns I've read to day on this page are inspirational. I wish all of the subjects and authors continuing strength and wisdom as we make our way into our collective future armed with the wisdom of this day.
13
Thank you for this article. Two things have particularly troubled me about the Kelly incident:
(1) The assumption that the military is the only way to serve one's country. Our family has included a schoolteacher, a music therapist with the terminally ill, a nursing home patient advocate, and an administrator and a teacher in rehabilitation programs for the blind. Especially when I think of the underpaid schoolteachers who are striking for more aid to their school districts today, I hardly think of these professions as "worthless sponge lives" spent "at the mall" (spending money they aren't paid). One of my former students does volunteer tax prep for the working poor, another aspires to be a lawyer for the poor and underserved. Where would our country be if those forms of service were (and they are) neglected because they are deemed unworthy?
(2) That Kelly, in his contemptuous and self-righteous speech, never offered his condolences to the pregnant widow even while claiming recognition for having lost his own son.
165
So many social warriors, such as teachers and social workers, are serving in the trenches of a devolving society, striving to keep kids and families safe, healthy and learning, with fewer and fewer resources provided. When we judge a profession's worth by its profit margin, we are overlooking the higher benefits and mission of the service it provides to society.
11
I served in the Navy for 30 years and flew combat missions in the First Gulf War. I was nodding in agreement through your entire article. You have so very powerfully put into words what has been circulating somewhat unformed through my thoughts many times over the years. I encourage you to pursue some regular platform for being exposed to a wider audience. Your perspective should be heard by civilians, serving and former military members, the news media and politicians as well.
136
The Democratic Congresswoman happened to be a family friend who witnessed the call and the distress of the mother. In fact, John Kelly's critique of the congresswoman only added to the distress of the bereaved family - it was inappropriate and outrageous.
Mr. Klay glosses over the fact that Kelly's critique of "civilian" life was largely restricted to what are perceived to be ills of those with a more liberal lifestyle - guilt free sex, abortions, atheism. And Kelly works for a President with no history of service whatsoever, who had multiple times disrespected military people - whether dissing John McCain or Gold Star father Khizr Khan.
And having served in the military and fought, like John Kerry is no protection from accusations if they then criticize the military.
The fact is that those in the military are perceived as being more pro Republican. Trump certainly believed that was the case for him.
So I suspect that what people like Kelly are really talking about when they talk about a lack of respect for service is what they perceive as a lack of respect for authority, which does not need to correlate with having been in the service.
31
I was a young 2Lt in the The First Cavalry Division in Vietnam and I thank you for you thoughtful and cogent writing.
When a nation goes to war our politicians should call on all the populace to participate and pay a price as the nation did during WWII. Not put the war on a credit card and tell the civilians to keep shopping while the military and their families pay the full price.
14
Thank you for your service of this very thoughtful essay.
14
This is one of the best op-eds I have read in years. It is spot on. I kept reading and reading and agreeing and agreeing and thinking -add this and you did. I couldn't agree more with your thesis and the term patriotic correctness is brilliant. Why is not the school teacher, volunteer zoning board member, the super voter, the IRS staff person, the RMV clerk, Peace Corps personnel, social worker, etc. etc. praised for service and/or engagement in our national policy discussions?
318
There was also no discussion when 700,000 were slaughtered in Rwanda in the 1990s.
But, bottom line, sir, and please don't forget it: you volunteered to do what you chose to do and I volunteered to do what I chose to do.
That doesn't make either of us better or more noble or more "American" than the other.
16
Paul, I’m trying to understand the point being made here, but haven’t succeeded. Could you flesh it out?
Thank you for this really great article.
12
Very, very, well done. Makes one wonder if America should bring back the draft. For those, such as I, whose medical conditions preclude military service, other service should be required. It's amazing how current American domestic policies segregate and divide it's own citizens. For example, those that server, those that don't.
21
Well written and highlights nicely why we we need soldiers and not warriors, and particularly not professional warriors. Worship of warriors leads to fascism/ultra nationalism and tyranny.
44
I had a cubical mate at work that claimed he sacrificed 20 years of his life in the Marines to protect my freedom. He never left the states and got a free education and pension. When I inquired how exactly he protected my freedom he didn't have a answer past his canned comment. While he was in the military getting his pay I was struggling through employment with two different airlines that went bankrupt, and never paid what they owed me in pay, much less accruded sick, vacation and pension. Thing about being in the military is it's recession proof.
97
I've been an Air Force wife in the late 1960's and early 70's, living overseas doing combat support. All my uncles and fathers' friends fought in WWII and Korea. I have career military officers in my family -- West Point, Annapolis, etc. They have all shared the secret that everyone in the military knows and lives by -- it's all about the Benefits they get. This includes cheaper rates for cars, home loans, insurance, and on and on. Excellent free healthcare, early retirements so they can still get civilian jobs, and generous pensions. They talk incessantly about their benefits, and my brother (career air force officer) makes fun of how much we pay for things versus the discounts he gets at the base exchange. It's the perks, in reality, and not the patriotism. I'll probably get hate mail now for having shared this.
4
I've a buddy from my first infantry unit about to retire and looking to move to my city. He was asking about which neighborhoods would be best. As I warned him off about some of the worse ones, his reply wraps it up, "At least I'm not getting bombed and shot at on a regular basis."
I did six years and the perks were a pittance, none of them were lavish. Sure, no taxes at the PX, but the prices are marked up... Amazon is still cheaper.
The Army had some of the worst doctors I've ever experienced, so I gladly use my civilian insurance to exercise discretion about who provides my care. I used the VA for dental once because it involved being evangelized to for more than hour while some ding-bat dental hygienist cleaned my gums.
I enjoy living in the nicest neighborhood in the city instead of confined to some horrid base housing with sewage backing up and asbestos hanging from the pipes.
And, nobody in the civilian sector has ever spoken to me the way that I was regularly spoken to by those that outranked me.
As a civilian, I'm more in control of my fate and make far more money compared to anything the military could have offered.
I'm extremely happy having experienced life in the military, it has given me the direction to appreciate what really matters. I wish it was something everyone got to experience. But there's virtually nothing that could be offered that would have drawn me back in.
I’m retired Army, I was in Iraq in 2003, we’d see the tag, “The Marines are at war, America is at the mall. Back in March 2003 I never thought that our involvement in Iraq would last so long. By June 2003 I was sure we’d be in Iraq for at least 10 more years. Because no one in the higher command had the slightest idea what the mission we were trying to accomplish was. The only thing I’m sure we accomplished was to drive up stock prices of defense contractors.
As a veteran I’m sick of being used as a symbol of patriotism. Especially by people who never even thought for a split second of joining. You don’t need to have work a uniform to be a patriot.
Finally, don’t feel the need to thank me for my service, because I didn’t do it for the recognition. And after seeing the way that troops or sailors and Marines are treated by the local population of towns with a large base I don’t believe it.
If you want to support the troops, call or write your representatives and demand they protect the VA from being looted. Don’t be naive enough to think they want to privatize the VA in the name of better care for veterans. They want to transfer billions to the private insurance sector. Many veterans find good jobs with the VA.
Finally demand the reason why we need to send troops into harms way, and ask your representatives if their kids are in the military.
610
Thank you JER. You and Phil Klay nailed it pretty well.
We live in an age where symbols mean everything and substance counts for little, as Klay’s reference to the “pageantry of military worship” captured brilliantly. Frankly, it nauseates me when high officials from commanders-in-chief on down - usually Republican ones - reach into their bag of rhetoric to talk about our brave warriors. It's very transparent as a way for the speaker to grab some reflected, but unearned, glory with no heartfelt appreciation in return. Of course, it helps to have multiple flags as a backdrop; the more of them I see, the more suspicious I am of the speaker’s motives.
The name of the game is manipulation, and the media enthusiastically go along with it. Though I haven’t quit viewing news networks altogether since this Syria attack was launched, I’ve been much readier than usual to hit the “off” button; I’m just fed up of one retired military man after another coming on the screen to talk about the nuts and bolts of the attack, while others such as historians with a broader perspective are rarely heard from.
Ike in his farewell speech referred to the threat of the military-industrial complex. We ended up with worse - this is the military-industrial-political-media complex at work. It’s woven into the fabric of the nation and it’s very clear none of its components has the slightest desire that to change.
106
I wish there was a way we could stop this senseless war-mongering that exists only to feed the pockets of the rich. I will thank you for fighting because you gave up part of your life in an effort that looks more and more futile. But I ask you, sir, if we had any influence at all do you imagine we'd find ourselves in the current situation?
TY....we citizens truly need a call to action. (besides flags and pom poms)
3
I wear my black baseball cap that I had the letters 4F stitched on in bright red . I didn’t serve in the military ; had absolutely no desire to do so either . I am just as proud of that fact as all the people who walk around promoting which ever war they were in . Trump should have a non military parade so every one like me can be cheered like the heroes we are !
10
None of this arbitrary waging of war, all over the world, keeps anyone, in this country, safe or "free.". We should be ashamed of ourselves for pursuing incessant war, while Americans live on the streets, and go hungry; while kids fail to get a quality education; citizens have to choose between medical treatment and paying the rent; and while the flower of our youth lose their lives for no good reason. I am sick of it.
132
Excellent piece! I was born and raised in a different country, and I find Americans' fetish for anything and anyone connected to the military extremely strange and quite ridiculous. "Patrioric correctness" is an interesting concept and term for what I have been trying to formulate for so long. Especially with this administration and all the generals who have served or are serving in it, the expected "respect" for military people seems to have been taken a notch higher. It is getting positively worrisome.
71
Once again the wisdom of George Washington shines forth, when he requested of people in the military that they display "the most conciliating dispositions" in civil society. Like law enforcement officers, members of the volunteer military have chosen to go into an occupation that puts deadly weapons in their hands, and expects them on occasion to use those weapons to kill. What kind of people take that kind of job?! I for one begin by not trusting them. I certainly won't call any of them "hero," without a fitting context. They should understand how dangerous they look, and ARE, before hoping for words of warm praise from peace-loving civilians.
Also: Does the word "liberal" mean anything anymore. I consider myself very liberal, but had no interest in entering the Niger brouhaha. Those who did, in order to attack Donald Trump or his policy, are not necessarily obvious examples of liberalism.
On the other hand, how can anyone believe that veteran of the Special Forces, writing in that context, when he said that such missions "kept you safe"? How in the world does a mission such as the one in Niger keep US citizens safe? Do citizens of Switzerland or Uruguay feel unsafe, because their militaries are not engaged in deadly activities abroad? Such cultic rhetoric must be objected to whenever it is repeated.
39
An article like this is long over due.
Seventeen years of combat should be front and center to be discussed.
29
The sad fact about this commentary is that Phil Klay feels he must defend American citizens from an elitist mentality rife among our volunteer military. The so-called greatest generation didn't subscribe to this elitism. I was drafted in 1967 and have never subscribed to this view. Maybe it has something to do with the ability of a soldier in Afghanistan to skype or talk to people back home enjoying life and instantly compare their day with his. Maybe it has something to do with wars started for the wrong reason, extracting multiple tours from a volunteer soldier and a certain segment in our society mandating "thank you for your service" to make up for far too many of their ruined marriages, physical and mental health problems and limited job potential. I don't say "thank you for your service". I make sure I don't vote for some imbeciles like Bush/Cheney or a president who likes to surround himself with generals.
63
Great book by the way, Mr. Klay.
4
It was Richard Nixon who realized that if he simply ended the draft, he could drain the passion from the anti-war movement in this country. And so did.
It is Nixon's legacy -- augmented by patriotic correctness -- that has allowed our "biased toward action" leaders -- Democrat and Republican alike -- to plunge us into a state of perpetual war.
17
I recall hearing about the protests against the 1970 Cambodian invasion and the resulting shootings by the National Guard at Kent State. At the time my company of the 25th ID was in Cambodia. My platoon, all 25 of them, said they would not have fired on the students regardless of orders. We supported their right to call the generals out
Wars cannot be left to the discretion of the generals. After all command generals, 3 & 4 stars, have won one war in the last 70 years, that being Bush 1’s rollback of iraq’s invasion of Kuwait. Why are they revered.?
Without civilian input into our unending military interventions all we will do is increase the number of our killed and disabled service women and men and those phony “thank you for your service” armchair warriors.
102
The decision to go to war is made by civilians. We don’t revere all flag rank officers. MacArthur was a narcissist, who was rightly relieved of his position.
1
Thank you, Mr. Klay, for your heartfelt, honest and beautifully written thoughts. We have been at war for way too many years in way too many places. I bet most Americans would not be able to identify half the places in which are soldiers are deployed in combat situations. We should respect and honor their service and the sacrifices this service means to themselves and their families. But Mr. Klay is right to say that we should not honor them, nor give them special status, just because they are soldiers.
The creation of an untouchable soldier class that is above criticism can have grave consequences for a democracy and should be avoided at all costs. Perhaps one way to ensure that this does not happen is to have universal service, as is practiced in many other countries. Not only could this provide valuable context for what it means to be a soldier, but also what it means to be a private citizen.
27
"If what I say deserves to be taken seriously, it’s because I’ve taken the time out of my worthless sponge life as a concerned American civilian to form a worthy opinion."
thank you. well said.
in a democracy all voices should count.
I was shocked when I was dismissed as unpatriotic (and probably mentally ill) by friends and acquaintances when I opposed the first gulf war. I'm used to it now.
as the daughter of a man who had brain injuries and untreated PTSD from his military service, I understood one facet of likely outcomes for many, and most of our military interventions that I have been aware of in my adulthood have not seemed worth the cost.
35
I am a Navy veteran living in a hyper liberal city on the left coast and I had my U.S. Navy veteran bumper sticker scraped off my car three times already and I won't replace. Mr. Klay-thank you for the article and serving our country, Semper Fi
6
I am a hyper liberal living in a hyper liberal Seattle suburb, and I have never experienced any slurs directed at my 22 years of active Military duty. Nor any fawning, thank heavens. I felt privileged to have served.
4
Read the article again. You missed the point first time around.
Army veteran 25th Infanyry Division. Vietnam 1969-1970
1
I don't put campaign signs for Democrats on my lawn or in my window for fear of gunshots.
Forget about bumperstickers; I can't afford 4 new tires!
You are lucky you live where yo do.
3
From the comments here, those who have not served in the Military or had loved ones in the service, know very little about what Military service is all about. I lived in 12 different places in my 22 years of active duty, including Vietnam, and visited countless other places. Ask any GI whether he or she would chose Germany or Oklahoma as a duty station. Sorry, Sooners.
12
Thank you, Mr. Klay, for this essay, for your day-to-day service as a husband and dad, as a thoughtful and engaged member of your community. Thank you for paying attention and caring enough about the experience of being a real patriot to reach out to your fellow Americans with these wise words.
22
The struggles skillfully described in this piece are powerful and universal, experienced widely across the globe, and documented since the dawn of written history.
Open Homer's epic, The Odyssey, rooted in an oral tradition going back millennia, and you'll find that after the celebrated victory at Troy, it took the hero-warrior a decade to "return home." Even with a decade of time to deal with temptations and conflicting values, the conflict in values between irresponsible civilians and this returning hero-warrior prove to be too great, resulting in violence.
And we expect our contemporary warriors to "return home" and become "dad" in days...?
This article is rich with challenge for us all.
12
I love the phrase "patriotic correctness." And I'm sick of all the pot-bellied loud-mouths who think all we have to do is wear our American flag pins/t-shirts/bandannas/etc and shout down anyone who doesn't agree with them (usually people of color or students angry at losing friends to gun violence).
I conduct a community band and I had one of my players ask me why we didn't start every concert with the Star-Spangled Banner. I told her I loved my country and I honor the ideals on which it stands, but I don't worship the National Anthem. We play it to start the season, that's all.
Mr Klay has done a remarkable job expressing what I think is the inexpressible and he has the credentials to do it. My son is a US Marine captain and, fortunately, has avoided being deployed into a war-zone. His job is incredibly important--he trains new infantry officers.
But I've been a teacher for 40 years and I've taught in some great situations and I've done "missionary work." The missionary work was incredibly rewarding, especially when the students succeeded.
Who thanked me for my service? Not Betsy DeVos or any of the other right-wingers who think teaching is a piece of cake and we have "all that time off."
So thank you, Mr Klay for your valuable essay. Unfortunately, the people who would benefit from reading it will be clicking on articles on the Fox website.
266
Thank you for your thoughtful writing and your service, Mr. Klay. For many of the reasons you cite, I remain opposed to an all-volunteer military, and firmly in favor of universal national service for both men and women.
17
To Randomonium: But for the elite families among us who would find a way to keep their sons and daughters out of the military service. Think Bush family. CIA dad even had the clout to produce papers to prove what was not provable. Alas.
Of course, but that's not a reason not to try to make participation in public service, military or civilian, a compulsory aspect of citizenship. We need every American to pay attention and vote.
Thank you for a beautifully expressed piece of writing -the most sane and humane thoughts I've read about the military.
25
Nice essay but perhaps mistake. “Our military is justified only by the civic life and values it exists to defend.” That has been the case was in Washington’s, but now it is a business remunerative to some deadly to others, and just when that occurred the hated academics debate, but after WWII – the good one – and maybe first the one I was drafted into Korea; but there we were using the cover of the U.N.
Vietnam still used the draft and when even the draftees and enlisted came to question its function and purpose we came home. Now no draft, and an unconscious civilian population that has no policy making impact, the troops justifiably ask the question you do.
Maybe a cry for a return to the draft is as close as we as a nation will ever get to once again seeing the Military in Cost-Benefit terms; that sure would scare some ‘insiders.’
8
Great article. I'm a Vietnam vet. In Vietnam we would talk about "back in the World" by which we meant civilian America. We need to bring back the draft, an equitable draft. We need to force the reality of war into every home in America.
14
I agree. When I was in Vietnam, the natives would refer to the US as “The land of the big PX”. There were some fringe benefits. Smokes were 11 cents a pack, and an imperial quart of Beefeaters went for $2.
7
And yet, you are compelled to tell readers you are ' a Vietnam vet.'
I am indifferent to your service history. You either have a valid point, or you don't.
By announcing your service history, you are seeking to add credibility to your viewpoint - which is the very thing to which the author objects.
Thank you so much for this piece. I found it speaks to many thoughts and feelings I’ve had concerning our actions across the world- not to mention all the soldiers we send. Horrific wounds are being inflicted in ever widening circles. Our policies must be examined and re-examined. The human and other resources poured into the military are all of our concerns. We are all Americans. We owe this to ourselves and those affected around the world.
8
there's a big difference between respect and fetish. perhaps in a never-ending need to exercise the ghost of Vietnam we have turned the military into something that must be placed upon a pedestal as Penance for the treatment of veterans of the Vietnam War.
28
Thank you for your service. This is a magnificent essay well worth reading. I have long felt that we’ve politicians use patriotic correctness to stifle any debate about when and why we send our troops into combat.
The best way to honor our troops is to not send them fight in some politicians’ war of choice. That is pure exploitation and it needs to stop.
23
And how is that done when the funds flowing from those who prosper on The Military are significant and now virtually every Congressional district has a little piece of the action. Perpetual War is thriving in this great land and no questions asked by the citizenry.
10
People serving in the Military are among the last who want to go to war. Draft dodgers like Cheney and the chickenhawk neocons are the ones that lied us into our Iraq fiasco.
Beautifully written and great depth of thought. We are fortunate to have a great military. I wish we had a great foreign policy strategy to go with it.
Our country is responsible for the deaths of thousands and thousands of people - civilian and military, ours and 'theirs'. Our actions fan the flames of terrorism and then we kill more people trying to stamp it out. We need real leaders who can come up with a real plan that achieves real peace.
14
Phil Klay, thank you for writing this insightful piece. It's clear as a bubble floating up in the spring sky. Good on ya!
5
I starting reading this remarkable essay thinking it would be about the presence of the military in our everyday life. Something that I find unnerving and symptomatic of our national crisis.
However it was much more. I recalled that fascism will come wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross.
Thank you.
44
The reverence that Americans afford their military is misplaced in a democratic state. More importantly, the idea that American soldiers are out in the world "dying to protect the freedom of other Americans" is a destructive myth. I have nothing against American soldiers; most of them, I assume, are duped and brainwashed into doing what they do. But the American military does not "protect" Americans; it goes out in the world and - most of the time- uses force and violence to destroy other people and other countries in order to maintain American domination in the world. There is nothing noble or commendable about that and it is not surprising that the actions of the US military inspire revulsion and fear almost everywhere else. The US invasion of Iraq, by itself, is enough to completely discredit any argument that one could make in support of the US military and its leaders. If the US military actually were a truly "defensive" organization, I would have a different opinion. But if it were, it would also be far, far less active in the world. Maybe the first step for Americans in coming to terms with their unhealthy fetish for the military is realizing that it is, primarily, an offensive actor.
25
I was not duped or brainwashed. I enjoyed the cameraderie of service life, and the opportunities it provided. I had important assignments in Vietnam and with the CIA. You may recall our Cold War following WW2. The fellowship among service people was closer, in my experience, was much closer than that among civilians. I would do it all again if I could.
4
Yes, making mock of uniforms that guard you while you sleep,
Is cheaper than those uniforms, and they’re starvation cheap,
And hustling drunken soldiers when they’re going large a bit,
Is five times better business than parading in full kit.
We ain’t no thin red heroes, nor we ain’t no black guards, too.
But single men in barracks, most remarkable like you.
And if our conduct isn’t all your fancy paints,
Well, single men in barracks don’t grow into plaster saints.
Kipling, “Tommy”
1
And who is footing the bill for this less than cost-effective burlesque where people are getting killed and our freedom of movement has been restricted by opportunistic politicians acting at the behest of their monied owners?
11
Those who pay taxes and have not 'off-shored' their earning. What does the voter know once the election occurred? Not coming to you over any media, save the advertisements so expensive at election season, the feeding troth of the media.
6
The separation attitude in the military is not unique to the US. It is a powerful cultural force in the military world, so powerful that it is part of the reason the Air Force did not report the convictions of the Texas mass murderer. Why? Because we are not part of the civilian world, that's a civilian rule and we don't partake. What Klay says is spot on. I've seen it since the mid 60's and it has only changed to be worse now than it was then. Supervision is always responsible, so look at supervision in the shape of John Kelly and you'll see how the separation and contempt is perpetuated. Unless Mr. Mattis lays into the supervisors, the "us vs. them," military vs. civilian, contempt will continue, with the politicians making the most of the ridiculous fawning they do about anything military. Having been there, there's no reason to fawn. All who have served are just ordinary people who at times have done extraordinary things, mainly to help a buddy and to stay alive.
22
A fantastic, eloquent piece of journalism, thank you. 'Patriotic correctness' is now frequently employed in our country by the political and media classes. It is great to see it called out for the cynicism that it actually is.
14
Thank you for this amazing, brutally honest Op-Ed!
I have an 18-year old son, and I love him beyond words and actions. I would give my life for him in a heart-beat. I am no different than most mothers. During those nights when I am up, compliments of US foreign policy, I think of ways in which I would save him from a sudden draft and general mobilization. I've come up with a few, probably very naïve plans. But my maternal anxieties speak volumes. Having a draft would change the discussion overnight about foreign policy, military interventions, civilian vs military. It would bring restraint and sanity to what has become an out-of-control and very dangerous course that we are all complicit in, military and civilians alike.
25
America was at the mall during your service because that is exactly what political leaders wanted the public to know. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield, Rice and a whole bunch of politicians did not want the public to see the dead bodies coming home or the cost to taxpayers. (Think two page appropriations for the war budget.). It was all just a giant sink hole of lives and treasure. No wonder the American public was on another planet.
In spite of limited information, there were lots of Americans asking the hard questions about Iraq and Afghanistan. The missions for our soldiers seemed to be one of driving around in circles until they got blown up. By 2006, the public had had enough, gave the U.S. a new Congress and in 2008, a new Democratic administration. That did not happen because people were at the mall.
As long as I have been alive, the American military has been asked to carry out ill-defined missions with limited chances of success. (As if we even knew what success would look like.). Except for a few power crazed generals and admirals, it is not the military’s fault. The military does what it is told through civilian command. But do not think for a moment that no civilians were/are paying attention even if we have never worn a uniform. We are doing our best to keep our military safe and alive by asking the hard questions.
Our military should only be used in the extremis, not as a campaign prop. The current administration does not hold that belief.
23
v
vietnam era vet. got lucky and went to europe. this is a good article. america shops cause GWB told us too. just kidding. during the second world war and before shortages of materials were rationed to the public. since then our economy has been humming along. everyone shops. a 2 year commitment to the nation should be required for all Citizens. but for the current soldier worrying about the lack of care that fellow americans are showing he or she needs to remember their choice is why they are where they are. Life is like that. the fact that GWB and his Mission Accomplished sign even flew on that air craft carrier still angers me today.
11
Thank you, Phil.
An articulate appraisal of a critical problem with our society. The spite and contempt expressed by those within the military and police spheres toward any reasonable civilian questioning of the enforcement of their physical power is problematic. The attempt to stifle rather than encourage that questioning will only lead to a worsening of the state of things.
17
I think that America should have some sort of required national service for all its young people except those who truly cannot serve. It might be the one time someone who is from a rich family has to work alongside someone from a working class background or family. And I do think that we should reinstitute the draft if we don't have some sort of national service required. Americans might have a better understanding of the purposes of war, of what it means to cooperate, that no one is exempt from hardship in life, and that every American, rich, middle class, poor, white, black, Asian, LGBTQ, male or female , Christian or not,is entitled to be treated with respect, dignity, and to expect to have a decent life.
Tolerance isn't something that is learned living in a bubble. It's learned by living with others who are not from the same places, who do not have the same ideas or ideals you have. Americans need to learn that it's not enough to support the troops when they go to war. They need support when they come home. They also need to learn that patriotism shouldn't be confused with supporting a war because our president says we have to fight.
I think it takes courage to sign up to serve nowadays. Why? Because soldiers are constantly re-deployed. It's long past time to start asking all our young people to serve their country. And it's long past time for our country to start serving its people.
17
Considering your current President had multiple draft deferments, it should be obvious why this doesn't work. The "filthy" rich will always find a way to avoid working alongside average people. Also, much can be learned from military service, including indoctrination. Requiring military service creates the opportunity for a whole different kind of group-think. And, besides all that, modern war has proven that all-volunteer armies fight much better. People that don't want to be there just end up getting other people killed. No, the draft is not a good solution, for many reasons.
If you want to stop unnecessary wars, how about you just refuse to elect politicians that don't have children serving in the military? Just don't. Not past children, children serving during the election. When their children get out, don't reelect the politician. Every politician making any vote to go to war should have that sinking feeling about their children going into harms way, because of them. Then, just maybe, your military will be used more wisely.
For some reason America has gone down a path that binds them to military adventurism. People have argued against it for a long time, in vain. Instead, use the system to achieve what you want. Demand your politicians personally live this military adventurism and put their own children in harms way. Maybe that will settle things down some.
You don't need to change the law, just choose how you vote. It's that simple.
1
hen3ry:
Your goals of shared service and sacrifice, learned tolerance, and respect for others are admirable and desirable. But there are many ways to serve our country other than the military. In addition, many of these goals you mention do have a place they can be learned, if the institution is given its proper respect and support: The American Public School.
5
Stunning piece. Thank you, Mr. Klay.
6
What a great article. Military service should merit respect. But the fact of service does not end the debate, as one big point of service is preserving the field of debate.
Thank you for sharing!
17
A thoughtful and well-written essay. I must point out, however, how patently insane all this talk about "keeping America safe" is. Since I was born in 1954, we have had ZERO military victories - ZERO. Furthermore, NONE of these military adventures happened anywhere near our borders - NONE. Every one a war of choice - like a sick hobby for the powers-that-be to send other people's children to fight for them. So let's reflect on this when we pay our taxes this year, the majority of which will go to the military machine about which we were warned by General Eisenhower. Respect for the military for protecting us? I think not.
230
We liberated Kuwait in 1991.
4
I stand corrected but you have proved my point - multiple trillions of dollars spent for one victory - the liberation of a small country of billionaires.
"Liberated"? Maybe. But of course that was after Bush led Saddam to think that it would be just ducky w/ the USA if he invaded Kuwait.
Ever since the end of WWII, the US has maintained a large military around the world and has engaged in large and small scale combat around the world. Other countries have done so, although none on the scale that the US has. Does this make it easier to use the military to attain objectives that might be achievable through other means? Are we really defending our vital national security and freedom? Or have we forgotten or do we choose to ignore Eisenhower's warning about the military-industrial complex? As Mr. Klay points out eloquently and cogently, it is easy to use patriotism as a blanket that keeps us from understanding why we send young men and women into harm's way for anything less than an attack on Americans.
30
Excellent piece by the excellent writer Mr. Klay.
Much appreciated perspective from someone 'who's been there,' and sees the world more broadly.
Thank you sir, for your service in -- and out of -- the military. Thank you for your wisdom.
Best to you and your family.
60
Great piece, Mr. Klay.
I firmly believe that what this country needs is a military draft, so that the duty of service will potentially touch every family. That would not eliminate the possibility of volunteering to serve, as every member of the present US military under about the age of 55 has done.
Only if every American family can be invested in what our military does, by the real possibility that some member of their family might be drafted, will we make it likely that all Americans will pay attention to our military activities around the world, rather than simply going shopping at the mall.
17
Have you read Shirley Jackson's "The Lottery"? The whole community is complicit in the unnecessary death of its own citizens. Not a premise worth imitating.
Have you read Shirley Jackson's "The Lottery"? Kind of like having the blanket draft you suggest.
1
Powerfully written and powerfully true.
30
Beautifully written article. Thank you for sharing your thoughts Mr. Klay. We are becoming too obsessed with all things military in this country. It's getting to a point where it's truly becoming worrisome. The inhabitant at the White House has made active and retired generals his main pool for filling cabinet -as well as other government- positions. Many are willfully forgetting that the military exists to serve civilian life and institutions and not the other way around. Some have even come to believe the simple act of wearing a uniform grants its wearer a sort of warped higher moral ground free of any type of mistake. Nothing further from the truth. Even President (and five-star general) Ike Eisenhower warned us about the dangers of the "military industrial complex" and how much of a threat this could be. I'm not saying we should be against our military. They serve their purpose and many of our service men and women do so honorably. Nor am I suggesting we should abandon all of those who have served our country, both in civilian and military roles, as we often see with the crumbling VA. However, we must always remind the military -and ourselves- who serves whom in this great country of ours. God Bless.
29
When we go to war, hopefully rarely, we should go as a nation, united with everyone subject to service. The Military draft should be invoked, with no deferments. It is criminal to have the same group serving multiple times in a war zone. I am a retired Air Force colonel and Vietnam vet. My youngest son served two assignments in Iraq as an Army Officer. For your information, conventional Service members absolutely despise mercenaries such as Blackwater. They do far more harm than good.
45
I didn't give birth to my children to have them fight a war--unless the issues are so compelling that they choose to do so themselves. They have benefitted our nation in so many other ways, none of which involve violence.
48
Serving in our Military is a privilege, not a burden. It transforms a resident into a citizen. Of course, there are other careers that serve the same purpose.
M:
I am sure my grandmother did not have my father so that he could serve in WW II. But when we were attacked, 14 million Americans (out of a popluation of about 132 million total) served in the US military. Many volunteered. Many were drafted.
What the draft does is cause every family to have "skin in the game" and therefore to take a position and state that position to our "fearless leaders" in Congress and the Executive Branch. We might have fewer "Cadet Bone Spurs" types running the show.
If people took a more active interest in when and why we send our kids off to fight, we might avoid getting involved in some truly stupid wars (Vietnam, Iraq).
1
Thanks, this was needed. "Patriotic correctness." I'm a brat, and have plenty of respect for those who serve. But there are many ways to serve one's country and community; the armed forces are but one, and aren't for everyone. Plenty of other occupations are also a calling to some, but a job to others (medicine, teaching, science, the law, etc.).
Where does this bizarre military vs. civilian thing come from? From the symbolism of the uniform (and the flag), onto which people map whatever they want to see? From the relative invisibility of military members to people who don't live near large bases (think Chicago and Boston vs. San Diego and Norfolk)?
Could it be from glorification of service coming from the military itself, as a way to recruit people?
I don't know. You tell me.
72
Mr. Klay has essayed one of the most thoughtful and intellectually honest op-ed commentaries I’ve read anywhere. He dares address thorny matters of conscience and political (and patriotic) correctness that many of us think about but are too politically and patriotically correct to publicly promulgate as he has expertly done. His wise and scrupulously balanced insights made me realize that one of the most pervasive demonstrations of political correctness in society at large is staunchly practiced and boisterously defended by the very people who are quick to mock political correctness: I am speaking of our standing at public events for the national anthem. It’s fair to say most of us are afraid not to stand. It’s a mass exercise in political and patriotic correctness. My late dad was a fiercely proud sergeant in WW II. I dutifully stand for the anthem, but if I did not, it would show no disrespect for him and other veterans whatsoever. Echoing Mr. Klay’s precis, standing for the anthem does not ipso facto invest you with moral authority or patriotism, and choosing not to stand does not rob you of it.
279
Thank you for sharing your perspective, and especially for giving a nod to other groups--teachers and civil servants--who also serve and are given very little respect or credit these days. There are many ways to serve in a democracy; given this essay, I would bet your children will find one of them.
86
I also thank you. This has needed to be said for years now.
62
What a beautiful and thought provoking piece. You’re a wonderful writer, Mr. Klay.
18
Thank you, Mr. Klay, for everything. We fetishize the military, and both civilian life and military life is I think, the poorer for it.
131
How do we restore the civitas? This is the question of our era.
24
Very well stated. Thank you for putting the problem of “patriotic correctness” into words. It needed to be said.
I am a veteran too. But more importantly, I am a citizen.
378
Thank you for an extremely thoughtful essay.
36
Are our troops and veterans truly defending America and our freedoms, or were America's soldiers since 9/11 compelled to serve as instruments of wars for political goals of which the American people have little or no comprehension, or prefer to ignore? I DO have skin in the game. I've seen some of the young soldiers in my family suffer the consequences of being witness and participants in unspeakable violence, prolonged combat duty, which the American people mostly don't really wish to see or digest. Earlier this week, my wife and I heard the Air Force Academy Band perform a positively brilliant concert in our small Kansas town. But in some inner region of my heart I was very dismayed to hear their leaders praise our troops as the "defenders of our freedom." That's not what my nephews were defending in Iraq, Afghanistan and on several other covert missions in countries with which the American people are not officially at war. They were defending deluded political fools and the foolish missions they were sent to undertake. One of them is now a senior non-commissioned officer. "You know it would take to win in Aghanistan?" he asked. "A half million troops and five or ten years, at least." Nobody ever told the American people that, and nobody in political leadership will ever do so. And he knows that nobody every told him or his buddies that. This is the unvarnished truth about our veteran, and the whole American people today.
419
Alexander the great had to slaughter half the population of Afghanistan to subdue it. It’s never going to get easier in that hellish country.
Same could have been said about Iraq in 2003. Oh wait.....I did say it.
Thank you for your service
Thanks for this inciteful article
And thanks for the great book
Looking forward to your next one
8
A lot of the young men don't know the history. As a 58 year-old and a veteran, I do.
The fact is that this country has been at war almost my entire life. It first affected me in 1966 when my dad was drafted. Fortunately he did not have to go to Vietnam and is still alive.
After Vietnam came Lebanon, where a bunch of our Marines got killed for no good reason, then Grenada, where Reagan supposedly got us our groove back, then a few dust-ups with Libya, then Desert Shield and Desert Storm, Iraqi no-fly zones, former Yugoslavia, war in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria. Oh, I almost forgot about Somalia and Libya, where in getting rid of Gadaffi we helped ISIS out.
The US has its finger in every pie for at least the 50 years I have had awareness and has always been very quick on the military trigger. We depend on an unending supply of brave and deluded young men to fight wars that America keeps getting involved in.
I was one of those deluded young men and so were you. Thank God my son isn't. Both you and I would have been better off going to the mall.
532
You mean the military industrial contractors have had their finger in the pie in our quest for “freedom”. I’m probably being too patriotically incorrect here even with that fact.
35
This 70 year old Vietnam War veteran and retired Air Force guy says thank you for writing this comment. Agree 100% with the both of you.
36
Ironically, the United States has been at war for 222 years since our founding. I found that astounding. Wonder why we are not trusted? Google the question, how long has the United States been at war. And Phil Klay, thank you for your service from another veteran.
16
A magnificent essay. Thank you for this, and thank you for your service.
29
Thank you Mr. Klay. We had the same feeling of a national disconnect in Vietnam knowing that while we were there, back home life was going along normally for others. It may have happened but I don't recall any generals at that time expressing sentiments like Kelly's. And as far as Ms. Sanders is concerned we who were in the heat then and I suspect those who are in the heat now, would hardly think it inappropriate to disagree with a general. After all, some of them have cost us a lot of unnecessary blood and treasure.
44
I understand the POV, but why should we really pay attention? These "wars" are undeclared, have no discernible role in our national interests, and spread misery to parts of the planet in which we have no business. I respect and have sympathy for soldiers and families sacrificing their lives, but really, why? Do we have a rational long-term strategy in any of these hotspots? What are the aims in Syria, Afghanistan, or sub-Saharan Africa? Does anyone foresee the emergence of free and open societies based on democratic principles? Or will the next strongman or warlord or theocracy inherit what we leave? For me the issue is, "Why are we wasting lives and money with no coherent plan?" I oppose the military adventurism and try to vote for candidates who are not going to automatically resort to the military solution. Is there something else I should be doing? Otherwise I will go about my life. Our military is all-volunteer. I you decide to participate, I don't feel obligated to lionize you.
175
I've always wondered why we call it volunteer when it is a profession that has tremendous job security with wonderful benefits and many of our grunts end up there because they don't have other options.
9
There is an “up or out” policy in our military, and failure to make promotion at critical times results in discharge. I was active duty 1958-1980, and my first 8 years were on starvation wages. Try living in NYC at $222.30 a month as I did as a 2nd Lt. in 1958, with a family to support.
There are benefits, to be sure, besides money. Friends you make become family, which was not the case necessarily during my 24 years as a Boeing engineer. So ship me somewhere’s east of Suez, where the best is like the worst, and ther’re ain’t no Ten Commandments and a man can raise a thirst. Kipling, again. My east of Suez was Vietnam in 1966, but I didn’t raise a thirst. There is nothing sexy about a woman selling herself for a dollar to avoid starvation.
1
I agree that Vietnam and Iraq were stupid wars, but if everyone is subject to service, we are less likely to get involved in frivolous adventures. If I had my way, Bush, Cheney and all the chickenhawk neocons would be serving time as war criminals, which they are.
12
Great article. Thank you. I can’t help but think so many of these issues would be solved with a draft. Everyone has skin in the game, so to speak, which would immediately change the dialogue and force a real political discussion about these interminable wars and their immeasurable cost.
270
The trouble with a draft is that the military doesn't need and can't afford that many soldiers. Also, if we want to end these wars signing up more soldiers seems counterintuitive, no?
34
perhaps a requirement for full citizenship should include a 2 year stint of public service. no service, no vote, no tax credits, no social security benefits, etc ...
30
I believe that David's point is that filling the ranks by conscription means that all eligible citizens stand a chance of ending up on the battlefield, and therefore might pay closer attention to their political choices.
1