I am reminded of the saying-
A son is a son until he takes a wife.
A daughter is a daughter for the rest of your life.
I have lovely daughters in law. .I feel lucky on that score.
As far as access to grandchildren goes
I would like more contact with my grand- daughters but they live far away.One daughter in law tells me - be careful what you wish for!
Back in the day many households were multi-generational or everyone lived in the same town.
Grandparents were really needed for support and childcare.They helped raise the grandchildren.Everyone just got on with it.
Now Americans are more affluent.Mother and father often work
outside the home full time.They hire doulas & nannies,
go to playgroups and generally employ non-relatives and professionals to take care of their kids. Grandparents are not as needed .
The theme in the comments here is that moms are usually the gatekeepers of the children (as opposed to the father) and how their in-laws relate to them determines whether there is easy access to the kids. Not many fathers saying that how their MIL treats them determines the kind of access to kids. Paternal grandmothers are expected to also especially want to visit the mother of the kids (and not just the kids), but maternal grandmothers are not expected to want to especially see the father/husband of the kids. Matrilineal advantage is not iron-clad but it is real and it is painful for a lot of good paternal grandmothers and grandfathers who dont have an easy role to slip into.
This article isn’t taking into consideration a lot of aspects. In my experience, when I was pregnant with my first child, I hardly heard from my MIL/FIL even though I included them included in my pregnancy journey the entire way. She was not interested in the baby shower planning. My husband stepped to ask her to participate the night before and only then did she come. I signed her up for only the fun activities to keep her happy. When she did come, she complained the entire time and even threw a little bit of a tantrum in front of family and friends. After our baby was born, my in-laws never offered help nor brought/sent over any meals, and would hardly text, just here and there inquiring only about our baby, even though I had a c section. Once our baby was a few months, my MIL decided she wanted to come over only when she was available, and if we were not available last minute, would accuse us of being too busy. I think something lacking in this article is accountability. It may have been different in the Boomer generation, DILs were obligated to maintain the relationships, but it’s not healthy, and a one-sided relationship is not something many of us are interested in. Their sons, our husbands, take notice of the lack of effort. Many of us are not gatekeeping, we just simply not going above and beyond once we become mothers and our energy is limited.
4
My mother is focused on helping me, her daughter, as much as she is spending time with grandchildren. If we disagree, we hash it out. As a result she is a welcome and comfortable presence in our home. My mother-in-law only wants to have fun with the kids-“helping” by holding the sleeping newborn so I “can” fold laundry, or taking the older kids on sugar-fueled outings. And we can’t tell her no about anything-talk about walking on eggshells. I tolerate her visits and breathe a sigh of relief when she leaves (usually while loudly complaining that she doesn’t see us enough on her way out the door-really!)
7
My mother in law has treated me like garbage for 20 years. My children see this and cannot stand her.
2
It’s really interesting how the nurse grandmother Susan says that she tell her son that they don’t need an invitation, as she expects that her son, DIL and two children visit her and not the other way around. I’d she doesn’t want to go a month without seeing her grandchildren she should move her 🍑
3
When I explain how we’re raising our child to my mom and my MIL, I get two different reactions. For example, we use paced bottle feeding to feed him - sitting upright and bringing the bottle to him so he can latch like he nurses. My mom learned how to do it to keep things consistent for the baby. My MIL refuses and says “I’ve fed a baby before, I don’t need you to show me.” THAT’S the difference. My mom lives 2 hours away and babysits more than my MIL who lives in the same town as us because she respects my parenting choices more than my MIL does
17
“Her daughter-in-law, whom she didn’t know well before her pregnancy, “did not want me to be close,” she said, and didn’t accept gifts and offers of help.”
Yo, you had no interest in her until she was a vessel of reproduction. No wonder she doesn’t want you around.
23
@Hillary Yup. I’ve been treated like a means to an end too. She got someone to marry her son, someone who gave her a grandson (all she ever wanted because she only gets along well with boys apparently). And now that I’m pregnant with our second son he and I mean nothing lol. They don’t take advice to back off and give us space and respect our boundaries but then expect to be given privileges like having alone time with our kids… umm no, if you can’t respect me to my face I don’t trust you behind my back. And if you can’t respect me to my face then I don’t want to be around you either!!
2
Mil came to son's house to see grandchildren, not their mother. While maternal grandma come to see grandchildren and their mother. That's the difference. My mil would bring dinner over to her daughters everyday, groceries, bath and change and watch the baby and everything. But she will come to mine for family dinner on Thursday, only talked to my husband, not the baby or me, or even save any for me after I cooked served and had to go feed the baby first. That's the difference
13
Both my experience as a child and my experience as a father has been very different than this story. I was far closer with my dad's parents than my mom's as a child, despite the close geographic proximity to both for the first 11 years. After my dad's parents moved out of state, I was still closer to them. Interestingly, my mom was closer with her mom than my dad was with his parents; but my mom and her step-father never got along. It was probably also quite related to personalities; my dad's parents were easygoing, laid back, and accommodating, and my mom's parents were uptight.
My wife and I live near none of our parents (not by choice, by job necessity). We have an absolutely terrible, broken relationship with my wife's parents; they are both toxically manipulative in different ways, were both verbally abusive to my wife as a child, continued that behavior into our marriage, and now treat me the same way. They instigated physical violence in our house with our children present, stomp on all boundaries, and flat-out reject our right to even establish boundaries with them in the first place. They never take any genuine responsibility for their actions, make excuses for everything, and generally have no sense of personal accountability whatsoever. Then they feel like victims when they don't get to be "normal grandparents." Having my in-laws be close with my children would be demonstrably detrimental to their welfare.
So much for the "matrilineal advantage."
3
@JAB Sounds like they’re narcissistic imo.
I am in the worst of these relationships described in the article. My concern is that my grandchild is being used as a bargaining chip. It is like walking on eggshells. We have to be careful to what we say or do at all times. The most innocent comment or action becomes an accusation of not honoring boundaries. I am going to buy the book you referenced. At this point I’ll try anything as all communication with my wife and I has been discontinued.
2
@Eric I have a similar relationship with my wife's parents, and they feel much the same as you. In fact, they use the exact same words to describe the situation as you did.
I would strongly advise you to take a hard, honest look at the way you and your wife treat your child and his/her spouse. If you treat them like absolute trash, like my in-laws do, and then never take any responsibility for your actions, they are going to rightfully conclude that it's not in your grandchild's best interest for you and your wife to be part of their lives.
I recognize that it is also equally possible that your child and his/her spouse are also just controlling and unreasonable. There are two sides to every story, and then there's the truth. But rarely do two married, competent adults—one of whom (your child's spouse) doesn't have two decades of baggage in dealing with you—vindictively conclude to cut someone off without having a reason for doing so. Though overreaction is possible, there is probably some legitimacy in their rationale, and you'd be well served to do some honest self-assessment.
You would also be well served to realize that your role in your grandchildren's lives is not and should not be the same as their parents' role. Your child and/or spouse call the shots with your grandchildren at the end of the day. My in-laws have told us straight out that they refuse to accept this, and that's a huge part of the reason they're not close with us.
11
After living in every one of these relationships, after reading many, many of the comments here, I know it will sound simplistic to some, but the reflected lack of tolerance for flaws and/or failings in other flawed or failed human beings always astounds me. The one-sided criticisms directed at every possible family member or relationship gives me pause……and what would that family member point out, I wonder, about YOU?
In my very (very) long life, I’ve (naturally) confronted more than my share of difficult people. Have been regarded as difficult too (I’ve been told). It’s a natural distribution issue. People are who they are. Let’s be clear. I’m referring to most people, not axe-murderers or deranged individuals.
But something is different today. Accommodation is an old-fashioned notion. ‘Getting along’ is a quaint idea. Perceived power and/or control between and among family is operative. Were these dynamics always underneath relationships but society knew how to manage them more or less successfully? I’ve lived very long enough to know how difficult, and often impossible it is, to achieve this state. We’re imperfect people living in an imperfect world. None of that gives any of us a pass for bad behavior.
A teacher taught one of my children a saying that applies: “when you point one finger at someone, you’re pointing three at yourself.” If only we lived in a perfect world!
10
@Alice wonderful and spot on. Thank you for the wisdom.
4
Good comments, all. Want to add a comment on adoptive parents. I have two adopted children, a son (her child) who was 7 when I married my wife (50 years ago) who has given us a grandson and granddaughter, and a daughter adopted in Romania 31 years ago 9 she is now 39 this year with four daughters of her own. She was also 7 when we found her in a home for children in Bucharest. We are much closer to the under-18 grand girls than the two older grandchildren. Both children are very close to us emotionally and we all wish we could be closer in distance.
The real issue is not maternal or paternal "advantage," its loving and caring for all your children and grandchildren, whether "natural" or adopted.
4
@ALUSNA Including their spouses. Some of us grew up differently. Just because you don’t understand or don’t agree with our boundaries doesn’t make us any less deserving of respect.
My mom is 94 years old now. An awesome mom for us. But not so awesome mother in law. Although she did start by saying her daughter in law was like a daughter but very soon it was clear that she only had eyes for her son...and later her grandson. When the grand daughter arrived, gorgeous looking, she worried that this baby will steal attention away from her older brother, so she overcompensated with her love and attention to her grandson. Now in their 20s, the grand daughter has stopped trying to please her grandmother (my mom) and the grand son is also resigned to the fact that his every move every glance every meal will be overly smothered by his grandmother. To all of us watching from afar it is no mystery that these kids adore and dote their maternal grandparents, who never judge them, give them unconditional love, and are forever every ready to be available for anything they need. Sigh. We have all collectively given up that we cannot expect my 94 year old mom to change her attitude, her biases, her preferences.
12
My daughters mother in law clearly believes that my daughter is trying to destroy their family. The evidence? Her son chooses to prioritize his new family over his birth family. (This came out in a big way over masking). They can’t believe he makes that choice so it must be my daughter. They are very lucky that my daughters reaction is basically “that’s their problem” and prioritizes her children’s relationship with their paternal grandparents over their beliefs. Of course, I am much closer - daughter can tell me what she doesn’t want from me and sets limits (since I’d move in with my granddaughter if I could…).
8
I am not a grandma but I have one daughter and 4 sons so I have hope. My experience as a daughter/daughter-in-law doesn't mirror this article.
My first son was the first grandchild on both sides. We lived for the first month in my mother-in-law's house so she could help us care for the baby. My parents didn't see him for 3 weeks and then only after my mother-in-law shamed them into it. They lived a 20 minute drive away at the time.
My parents moved across the country when before my third child was born. They never met my youngest, who was 10 when they died. I offered to pay their airfare to visit; their other conditions were too onerous (a new rental car instead of my spare, a hotel room instead of my guest room, etc.) and I couldn't afford them. They never invited me to visit.
My children love their paternal grandma. The 2 oldest recall how she, a devout Roman Catholic, picked them up after school every week, with their favorite snacks on board, to drive them to Hebrew school and how she kvelled with pleasure at the bar/bat mitzvah, which my parents chose not to attend. They all had sleepovers with her while she was able. The youngest child has fewer memories because she was no longer really driving by the time he was old enough, but his oldest brother took him to visit often.
We invited her to come live with us and she told us maybe when she's older (she's almost 98 now!).
They don't have similar memories of my parents, nor do I.
8
I must chime in! Sadly, my husband's mother died when he was in college, they were close. My FIL and BIL were never welcoming to me from the beginning ( I am an only child and my father died before I was married), and their unfriendly manner continued for years. My husband did not stick up for me for many years, which caused problems between us.
Both my FIL and BIL never spent time with our daughter, the only grandchild. My FIL never took her for a walk or an ice-cream, rarely saw her, and we lived 5 minutes away. My BIL never saw our daughter for 8 years.
Fast forward, my husband finally started to stick up for me, but by that time both FIL and BIL had done irreparable harm to our relationship. I finally stopped trying to make something out of nothing and it was freeing. Our daughter was never close with my husband's family, as they showed no interest in her, ever.
My mother loved my daughter, but had a devastating stroke when she was baby and left wheelchair bound. She desperately wanted to hold her and care for her, but could not. My daughter knew and loved her grandmother. You reap what you sow.
3
“A daughter is a daughter for life. A son is a son until he finds a wife”. I completely agree with this old saying. Despite the increase in participation of modern day fathers in the care of their children, mothers are still the gate keepers who plan out the details of their children’s day. There will always be a level of comfort and ease that you can achieve with your own mother who has seen you at your best and at your worst that can not be achieved with the mother in law.
6
Both sets of our parents lived 1000 miles away when we started our family. Both posed challenges: my parents were emotionally distant and judgmental, and my father was an alcoholic (the quiet kind). My in-laws were much warmer, but my MIL made her religion a barrier; she was a devout Roman Catholic, and we raised our kids as Protestants. She refused to attend any of their (or their Protestant cousins') christenings and kept my FIL from attending, until the very last one. However, my parents didn't come until that last one either, because it wasn't close and convenient. We chose to ignore the christening slights and made sure that our difficulties with our own parents did not transmit to our kids; we took it upon ourselves to make sure we took them to see both sets of grandparents at least twice a year, in spite of two demanding careers and the cost involved. They expected that we would bring the kids to them, not vice versa, and we did, for our kids' sake. I loved all four of them in different ways, and so did our kids.
My sister lived very close to our own parents and her kids saw them often, but they have more mixed emotions toward them than mine, having experienced the more negative side of their personalities. When my family visited, it was a special occasion and my parents were able to be on "best behavior". My in-laws were warm, kind people, and other than the religion issue, easier to be around as their lifestyle was more casual.
I recommend extending grace to all.
6
I bet if Son would take the kids to his parents for an afternoon visit and give Mom the afternoon to rest or have fun, everyone would be happy.
22
You have known your daughter her entire life but have only known your DIL for a few years before the grandchild is born. It is natural that the friendship is not yet fully developed. I went out of my way to create a deep friendship with my DIL from the day it became clear she would be the 'mother of my future grandchildren' as I jokingly called her (when she was still in high school). It takes 10 years for trust to build to the point where you can be honest about disagreements and know the friendship will take the strain.
To expect to waltz in when a child is born and be accepted by DIL as her own mother is the height of hubris. I made myself helpful, supportive and considerate once a week. I asked what was helpful, asked when was convenient and never ever criticized. I expressed admiration and love at every opportunity. But then I learned from the best: my own wonderful in-laws, whom I love more than my own parents.
30
Almost every mother that I know with a son sees her son as perfect, and the daughter in law as flawed. Even friends who truly love and enjoy their daughter in law always point out a fault here or there. It is a rare parent who accepts and loves a daughter in law unconditionally. My own in laws worshipped their son and only were kind to me when it suited them. To every parent of a son, I suggest that you look at your daughter in law as a possible new friend. Look for shared interests and celebrate accomplishments as you would with a friend. Then use only kind words when talking with or about your daughter in law. There is no “one size fits all” solution, but it might be wise to cultivate a relationship with sincere joy and acceptance.
23
Paternal grandmother here. Everything you say about your time with your toddler could have been written by me.
Way too many generalizations. Both my husband and I speak with our two sons, both of whom have toddlers, every single day, sometimes multiple times and yup, we spend a good part of that time talking about the grand-babies.
7
Just because you are family, does not entitle you to seeing your grandchildren. That is a privilege that must be earned.
I have a LOT of friends with Boomer parents who treated their own children as if they were an imposition. Then those children grow up and have their own kids and the Boomer suddenly turns into the (grand)parent their own children could have benefited from.
Want to have a good relationship with your grandchildren? Might want to look inward as to how your own parenting might be a factor.
12
Yes, I see and care for my daughter's children more than I see or care for my son's children. My daughter-in-law sees and depends on her parents more. This has made my son fear he is hurting our feelings, but I know it's just the way things are. She is not actively trying to freeze us out, she is just doing what comes naturally to her. We will go with the flow and do anything we can to be close to the kids.
24
True every bit of this article. However, to some extent, it does depend on the personality of the daughter in law. And some sons are more insistent. As the mother of sons, I was sure to stock our home with buckets of toys, puzzles, books, etc, including a giant Slinky. Plus we live near the beach. The grandkids love coming here, race to the toys, as depicted, and look forward to it all. So, yes, mothers of sons, there is a way to make it better.
6
Interesting tidbit: because a woman is born with all her eggs that she will ever have for sexual reproduction, in a sense, the grandchild of the maternal grandmother was in the maternal grandmother's womb inside their mother as a baby. It's a strange thing.
8
Ours is also a patrilineal society; it's just that, thanks to capitalism, the nuclearization of the family unit has blown the extended family structure apart. Women are freer to stay away from their MILs, than they are in more traditional cultures.
4
This is triggering for me. I went into individual and then couple therapy to learn to deal with my in laws. Our first year as a married couple my in laws invited themselves and forced us to Uninvite my sister for Thanksgiving ( this and other events led to therapy). They disliked everything I cooked. When our first child was born my parents cooked, cleaned did laundry and only held the baby when we wanted them to, they said “babies need their mommies!” They were there to be butlers for us. I was constantly told what a great mother I was. My sisters then filled our freezer up with easy to reheat individual portions of food so we would not need to cook. When my in laws showed up they made a mess, never did a dish or a single helpful thing. All they wanted was to do was to take my baby away from me. Then instead of cooking or going to the store or even getting take out they ate the food my sisters cooked for us.
They have always made my life miserable. So no overnights at our house. No Christmas or Thanksgiving visits, I did not need to be told my house is a mess and my food horrible. We needed lots of rules because they were thoughtless. My parents were always supportive, my food always tasted great, the kids always well behaved. I was frequently told by my Mom that I was a great mother. I allowed visits and encouraged closeness but mostly when they were around, I was not. It was my husbands job to coordinate visits and supervise, These rules saved my marriage.
35
I could have written this comment - the almost exact thing happened to me, and I also get incredibly triggered when I ever read these
Paternal Grandparents woe is me stories because at the very least, in my case, to have your in-laws treat you this way when you child is born and you just had a delivery is insane! Having my in-laws stay with us the moment we arrived home with our first new born in our small apartment was one of the worst weeks of my life. I still have PTSD from it. And it should have been the some of the best days of my life.
3
It shocks me when I see this type of information out there, but it also validates what I've seen happen with certain family members on my wife's side. It boggles my mind that the father of the children wouldn't have a conversation with his wife if this type of relationship were taking place.
As the father of two young daughters, both my wife's parents and my parents are involved. My parents watch my daughters on a regular basis each week, and my wife is grateful for the support as it allows us to work on those days without paying for daycare.
Everyone is different, and I of course love my wife, but if she started to restrict my parents from seeing their only two grandchildren? You've got to be kidding me that there are men this nonchalant out there to be accepting of that.
20
I am left to wonder.
My mom passed away long before I became a mother. And I lived in a different city. My father remarried and my step mom wasn’t very interested in his grandkids.
I know it would have been different had my mom become a grandmother.
My in laws loved spending time with our kids and were very supportive. My husband and I moved closer to his parents so that we could both pursue careers and have a bigger safety net. ( Paid childcare and backup family for emergencies.). I have always said it takes a village to raise a child.
My kids have been the benefactors!
Now we are helping our parents in their time of need.
15
I remember when I stepped off the plane to meet my future husband's parents. His Father pointed to my future husband and said, "You let him wear that shirt??!!" I cracked up and so did he.
We were pals from then on. My mother in law treated me like the daughter she never had.
Family problems and in-law problems often have to do with chemistry, boundaries, good will and lack of jealousy.
That said, my new daughter in law has brought me more grief than any other relationship I've had. Sometimes it is just one person who has some major problems. Either the daughter in law or overbearing father in law, the son, the mother--who knows!
Seriously, I hope they continue to live far away from me. And that is very sad for me to say. Of course I used to dream of grandchildren, but I am not looking forward to my husband and I being crushed each time we see them. I've never seen anything like this before!
7
Boy howdy it is a long standing cultural norm, as old adages reflect:
A son is a son 'til he gets a wife, but a daughter is a daughter all her life.
Gain a daughter, lose a son.
8
Sounds crazy to me. My wife's mother died before we even married, and well before we had kids. But they were estranged long before that. On the other hand my mother was pretty involved with her grandchildren, at least early on. But bully for Ms. Span and the other characters in her story.
1
My maternal grandmother always said, "My son is my son until he gets him a wife. My daughter is my daughter for the rest of her life." When my wife and I were talking about starting a family, my wife said to me, "I don't want daughters. I know how miserable I was. I know how miserable your sister was. The onus is on you." I came through, two boys, but I think she wishes she had a daughter. A son and his wife just relocated from Pasadena to Boston. They have two boys, four and one. I think we have seen them at most for a total of 30 days in the last four years. She is constantly setting herself up to be disappointed. I am at a loss as to what to do.
6
Another comment, my MIL always assumed I did not know how to do anything from cooking to caring for children. I got lots of criticism and unasked for advice.
From my own mother, nothing but support and comments like, “ you are an amazing mother”. Your kids are so great.
My MIL is gone now, too bad she was never able to say anything nice about my mothering.
So MILs, listen more and don’t make suggestions.
15
A point that keeps being missed is that things have changed for many mothers. I work full time, and in order to afford children I live in an area with cheaper housing and childcare, meaning I have a longer commute to work. If anyone tries to “help” me on the weekends by taking my children away, it’s not helping at all. It’s distressing! I love them and want to see them. After 4 years of parenting, my MIL still pushes to see us both weekend days even though I try to set a boundary of just one day a week. And it’s often for things that I’m not a part of—I’m usually cooking for everyone by myself. Or, for things far from our house, I have to not go at all or not have any time for household tasks that I could do alongside my children when we’re home without company. It is really tough to have to choose to be “on” ALL the time, or be guilted for not being a good DIL. If she wanted to pick up my kids from daycare and do something with them while I’m at work, that would be no problem at all. When my parents visit (which is much less than my MIL), they cook and clean in addition to playing with my kids and that actually does feel like help. Just something to think about for anyone that feels like they lost the daughter-in-law lottery. Finally, the timing of the article is a bit odd. For the last 18 months, I’ve had constant pressure from grandparents to expose them to my children, who go to daycare while I go to a frontline job. That definitely contributes to existing tensions!
20
I’ve two grown sons with children that live nearby. I learned very early on that I’m a part of but not central to their lives and I’m good with that. Since birth I’ve spent a day a week with my older grandson and granddaughter. Their moms really appreciated the time I spend since their own moms live far away. My oldest just turned 13 and granddaughter is almost 11. We still have our regular outings and projects. We’ve done a lot of gardening and yes we go for treats. It’s been a wonderful joy to have a closeness to them and I they feel that too. My relationship with my now four year old has been interrupted by Covid. I missed so much my alone time during his twos and threes and feel I’m always trying to make it up. Through all of it I’ve grown closer to my sons and their wives. I don’t like the tone of this essay. Life is what you make of it and I’m one grateful Grammy.
12
Any research on how mothers parent boys differently and dote on them annoyingly like little princes… and their future wives see them (their spouses) for who they are, and simply can’t take that dynamic around all the time?
18
@Lynne Agree completely. My reaction to the article is that I find it refreshing that men will stand up for their wives, rather than ignoring bad behavior, slights, and cruelties directed at their wives, and also great that they will not just cave to any demand of the MIL, even if unreasonable. A vast improvement from my parents' generation, that's for sure.
13
My son’s wife is the gate keeper of my relationship with my granddaughter and most of the time the gates are locked.
9
Condolences, Coco5.
It's not your fault; it's just the cruelty of life and nature.
9
In my case the maternal advantage is that my mother is actually maternal while my MIL is not. She has zero boundaries with me or her only son. She is was raised as a debutante and is awkward and stiff with all of us. Plus she has violated trust many times, not least of which was showing up to visit for weeks at a time without consent. My mother was a former school teacher-loves, loves, loves kids, and raised 4 daughters. My parents pour all their resources into the kids and grandkids. My MIL and FIL (her former husband) live for themselves and neglected their child. If MIL was a better mother/grandmother/human, if her son did a better job of setting expectations and setting up reasonable plans to see her-- things might be different. But somehow I get cast as keeping her from the grandkids.
7
My husbands mother died recently. I found her quite difficult. But I never limited her access to our children. She drove me crazy. She gave them sugar loaded drinks, Barbie dolls, gum. You name it. I did say absolutely no to Thanksgiving and Christmas visits. The day after, ok but I needed to be able to enjoy my holidays. My kids loved both grandmothers equally, as they should. In the end my kids spent more time with my husbands family as they are closer. So what I say, and what I tried to do is don’t expect to love a MIL as much as your own mother, but let your kids have two sets of grandparents.
22
For what it’s worth— When I was the mother of a very young child, we spent lots more time with my husband’s family than my family.
Visiting my in-laws and my husband’s siblings meant lots of people who were interested in helping out with the little one, who found her funny and charming, and appreciated our presence.
Visiting my family meant lots of criticism on all the things we were doing wrong, and lots of insistence that we follow the “rules of the house” that simply could not be changed a bit. If the toddler needed a nap when it wasn’t previously scheduled, or if we needed special food for her, we were spoiling our child. There was no effort to provide anything that we might need to make a safe sleeping or playing space for the little one. And the nervous little dog in residence hated the small human visitor, so we had to always be alert.
(Actually, when I met my husband’s family for the first time, I was amazed at how different they were from my family.)
11
Some of this probably comes from the fact that the DIL is naturally closer to her own mother than to the MIL. But the MIL may also be treating the DIL differently, and in a way that creates strain. My own mother (who was, admittedly, troubled) had a huge double standard with respect to my brothers' wives. For instance, when I wanted to go back to work, she felt I should do what I wanted, but when my SIL wanted to go back to work, she felt it was a sign that she didn't love her children. As far as she was concerned, no one was good enough for my brothers. No surprise, then, that their wives might be less than welcoming. Who needs that judgmental, nasty presence in their lives? Husbands should do a lot more to reign in their mothers in these instances.
22
As a single dad of two (young) sons, this is the stuff of nightmares for me. I hope I will keep a close and strong relationship with my sons, that their partners will be open to my presence (especially as a single grandfather), and that they will all view my role as equal to that of my ex-wife's. Lots of ifs...
17
Sometimes DILs become scapegoats. I’m a DIL. My husband’s family will always see him as the gem and me as the hurdle.
When we host a special dinner to celebrate something in my in-law’s family or go out of our way to help a member of the in-law family, my husband gets credit for it even though it is usually my idea. When we have to draw a hard line about something that feels important to our nuclear family but is unpopular with the in-laws (like celebrating Christmas morning at our house, just the four of us, before meeting up with the in-laws later in the day), I get blamed for it. And often, I draw boundaries on behalf of my husband because he can’t draw them himself. So then I get that blame too.
I distrust some of the perceptions that MILs share in this article. It is difficult to know who motivates the energy that can cause distance.
28
@TD I've forged my husband's name on birthday cards to his mom, I invite them and do the cooking, but I am the "fall guy" for anything the in-laws don't appreciate!
5
"We all know about women stiff-arming their mothers" -- please, consider the women who are daughters of mothers who hold them at arm's length. My mother loves my children, but she preserves the same uncrossable emotional distance with them as she did with me, and we all feel the chill.
13
Mother’s in law are often looking to recreate a simpler time when they were adored, and they could play with their daughters. They don’t listen well, and easily take offense and emotional injury. Indeed, the expectation is that you get access or it’s a major issue. Grandfather’s by contrast are looking for any way to help or participate, often having missed out the first time, so anything feels great.
So just ask how you can be most helpful and be glad for it. Leave motherhood redux out of it.
9
Covid probably only exasperated these estrangements with families.
3
How about this - don’t let your life revolve around your grandchildren! Consider yourself lucky. Let the “ maternal” grandma be the free babysitter!
7
DIL's who fence off loving grandparents are likely to reap what they sow in future years, when their own children will see extended family as "optional."
14
@M Davis Sometimes it’s the MIL that reaps what they sow. Imagine being a DIL who goes all out to make their MIL feel wanted and included and all she gets back is a slap - no matter what she does. This 👋 can come in the form of a hurtful remark (that the DIL chooses to ignore) or in the form of having every gift given returned to the giver ( note even when DIL specifically asked is there something MIL wants and needs and preference for a color). Prior to visiting the snowbird DIL always requests if MIL could please remove things that would be low enough for a toddler to reach and can be broken. Of course she won’t do it - result toddler breaks some meaningful stuff DIL blamed for not teaching toddler not to touch! a toddler? After 5 years the only good about covid is a short grandchild FaceTime visit is easy and a relief. Intend to continue this as opposed to in person visits. If MIL wants to be included kindness making nice goes a long way with DILs
11
This has nothing to do with the daughter in law. This is solely the responsibility of the son. Unfortunately many sons are cowards and wimps and will not stand up for what is the right thing to do. BTW I had a fabulous relationship with my husbands parents which has passed down from my sons to me.
21
@Susan Agree completely. My reaction to the article is that I find it refreshing that more men now will stand up for their wives, rather than ignoring bad behavior, slights, and cruelties directed at their wives, and also great that they will not just cave to any demand of the MIL, even if unreasonable. A vast improvement from my parents' generation, that's for sure.
1
I can vouch for that.
My MIL told me that a son’s child was different than a daughter’s children. Needless to say my daughter was close to my mother and not my husband’s parents.
1
I think that it is true in many/most cases. But every situation is different. I remember one marriage where after the divorce, the husband's parents basically dump him and kept the daughter-in-law. He was a jerk and everybody knew it. They kept up their relationship with her and after she remarried became grandparents to her 3 kids with a man who was totally unrelated to them. So, you never can tell what will happen
10
The grandmother who did not know her daugher-in-law well before moving.. first big mistake. The daughter-in-law knows you have little interest in her you just care about the grandchild.
17
Human nature doesn't change.
2
The MILs I have known personally who are kept at arms length are so ridiculously controlling and judgmental as to be unbearable and often offensive. They are this way with everyone, but the daughter in law doesn't buckle under the way the woman's own children do.
Oh, not you, of course. All of the OTHER MILs who are kept at arms length. In your case, it is FOR SURE your daughter in law.
26
I wonder if there has been any research on the difference between MIL who have daughters, as opposed to those with no other children, or more sons. I often felt as those the biggest impediment between my mother in law and me was the elephant in the room, her daughter. There was always a comparison, at least that’s how it seemed. My SIL lived a life that, although privileged, was not without a continuous flow of problems that were somewhat embarrassing for my MIL, divorce, gambling, smoking, to name just a few...all middle class horrors! I often felt as though our family, her son’s and mine, served as a challenge to our relationship. Oddly enough, after 40 plus years, she died, and our relationship has improved immeasurably. I am not being sarcastic. I often hear her voice, her advice, appreciate the things she did when she visited, now that there isn’t the tension created by the comparisons, by her grief at what she considered shortcomings in her own daughter and felt the need to always defend. My grown daughters and I often talk about her fondly, even though there were times when we thought she wouldn’t live long enough to die of natural causes! If I had been her daughter, I probably could have had it out with her, saying the things kids can say to their parents in order to clear the air. But I couldn’t. She had her heart in the right place, but her mouth just wouldn’t follow. MILs with sons have it hard.
4
My relationship with my mother was never great, and by the time my kids were born, she was not in the kind of shape where she realistically could have provided hands on baby-sitting. But if she had been, I would have rejected it. Indeed, one time when she was visiting when my daughter was an infant, and I was changing a diaper, my 3 year old son ran to me crying, "Grandma hit me!" It was a swat - nothing that really hurt him, but he already knew that in our family, we did not hit. I told her that if it happened again, she would never see them. I am much closer to my kids (23 and 26) than I was to my mother, but given that I was 39 and 40 when they were born, I have a feeling I probably won't have much of a chance to be a grandma myself (although I am practicing, just in case, on my husband's little granddaughter....).
2
My wonderful mother in law died before our children were born, My mother was a total gem and totally supportive of my wife . FIL remarried a woman who stepped and fantastic grandmother. when she died many years later i said "stepmothers need a better press agent". The delight and help of grandmothers was fabulous . I am only sorry that alzheimr's hit my wife before she became a grandmother.
14
Unfortunately I have been accused and estranged by my DIL and visits and contact with my grandchildren ensued.
In my case, despite apologizing for my faux pas, I believe my DIL has rather onerous mental health concerns and I am an easy target.
It has been the most painful thing in my life, but of late there is at least communication with my son (though no contact with grandchildren).
I do think that being a MIL means that your DIL is jealous of your son's love for you, at some deep point, and unless overruled, can become a toxic relationship. Sad, very sad for the grandchildren. I loved my paternal grandmother.
6
@Shakota What I've perceived is that most wives need reassurance that their husbands will put them first, ahead of their mom. There is NOTHING wrong with this! A wise mother will accept that that is the DESIRED state of things, that a man should put his wife first in establishing their own new home, and should respect this. As a MIL, this permeates all my interactions; I respect their decisions and follow their rules, I understand that these are THEIR children, not mine, and that I already had my chance! I easily see things to praise and admire, and try honestly to be helpful by doing whatever they tell me is helpful. There are a few nut case DIL's, which is tragic, but there are many more MILs who don't realize how toxic their behavior is.
14
In my case, my husband's parents resided nearby while my mother lived a continent and an ocean away. Things worked out well in general, I missed my mom but did not dwell on it. My in-laws were quite accomodating with helping with our children, in many many ways, for which I'm thankful.
My daughter has two children, she lives 15 minutes from us and her in-laws, so she has a choice of relationship. In practice, both sets of grandparents share kids' duty, school runs, etc... But my daughter and I are not that close. It's in great part because her family and her in-laws attend church together, whereas I have no interest in that kind of things. I have a great relationship with my grandkids ( 6 and 4) although I sometimes feel like the fifth wheel.
So besides mother-daughter relationship, there are all sorts of dynamics as to why grandparents get close to their grandkids and vice versa, not altogether within our control.
9
I'm close with my mom. My MIL, on the other hand, is very judgmental. She thinks things should be done a certain way and is vocal about it. I try to be as "nice" as I can, but it's hard and seeing her is exhausting. My husband does not run interference either. I have sons, and it makes me sad that I won't have that mother- daughter bond i have with my mom with them when they have kids. I just hope that if I'm open and non- directive their wives may come to see me as a friendly presence. I do understand that if I'm going to have a good relationship with them it will have to be on their terms.
15
Interesting article. However, I find it disconcerting that the author seems to place all the blame for weaker paternal grandparent—grandchildren relationships on the parents. It's the dad's fault because he doesn't do enough kin keeping, and the mum's fault because she's an exclusionary gatekeeper. Any chance that paternal grandparents play a role in maintaining these distances? Isn't it possible that grandparents treat their sons and their sons' children differently from their daughters and their daughters' children?
15
The trouble with so many articles written from a woman's perspective is they never consider that men do not value the same things in a relationship as women. Yes, women are "kin-keepers", but it is simply accepted that this is "good" and "it's bad than men don't do it", but men perhaps, value quality over quantity: a nice monthly visit, a birthday celebration is sufficient, no need for "weekly calls" or visits.
Far too often, women, self-centeredly, want to impose their own values onto men. Men don't cook or clean? Well, they probably won't starve and dirt (rarely) killed anyone. It's a matter of what one values.
6
@OneView Actually, dirt killed quite a few people back in the day. Putting that aside, I have no patience for men who benefit from the work women do while claiming that they don't participate in that work because they're not "interested." Maybe one's "values" should include ideas of equity and fair play?
30
@OneView I wonder who organizes the birthday celebration and the nice monthly visit? In my experience, men usually enjoy these get-togethers but rarely do the planning. And, I’m wondering how you can possibly say that “women, self-centeredly, want to impose their own values on men” when the opposite has been true for hundreds if not thousands of years.
30
@OneView Proud to say I'm a woman who is happy to live in dirt and never cooks, since I won't starve and dirt won't kill me. Where's my applause? Aren't I so practical and rational? Funnily enough, most people I know just describe me as dirty and lazy. Glad to learn these are actually virtues.
3
There's usually something else going on with these relationships if DIL doesn't want hubby's parents involved. These issues don't just appear randomly and need to be examined and addressed.
16
If you mean to suggest that the mother-in-laws are not perfect people—-who can argue about that? It usually isn’t hard to find some reason to exclude someone. Especially if you get some sort of benefit from the exclusion. Control? Validation?
We seem to have taught a lot of young women that they can’t bear to be with someone who hurts their feelings on occasion. What happened to strong women? What happened to grace?
I understand we need to protect ourselves from flat out toxicity. But some seem to choose to not tolerate imperfection. Empowerment may have morphed into intolerance.
9
So happy this article was written because it's the truth!
Contrary to popular belief, maternal grandmothers are far more important than fathers; Especially for girls.
The grandmother was otherwise known as the WISE CRONE is something that many Gen Z girls and Alpha girls will miss because their mothers had them in their 40s (which means their grandparent mostly dies before getting to know them!) or are career women who live far away from their grandmothers.
The nuclear family that we know of today is a very recent phenomenon that is very much wrong and we are paying dearly for it.
1
To my daughter: I'm not going to uproot my life to move near you to care for your eventual children. You are certainly welcome to ask your mother in law to do that, but she's got a life too. Too bad, so sad; you're going to need a nanny.
3
I have a good relationship with my in laws and I don't think I gate keep at all... I'm all for free childcare and when they're in her care, she can do what she wants with them... she clearly did just fine raising my husband even if our parenting philosophies are far from identical. Nonetheless my kids are closer with my mom. I think they are close because my mom and I are so close. I honestly wish it wasn't the case... I have all boys and it just makes me sad for future.
6
This article terrifies and saddens me. I have two lovely sons (and no daughters) who recently married wonderful young women. I love them all very much, and we have a great relationship that I very carefully nurture and that they honestly appreciate. Yet it sounds like one inadvertent comment, or "overstepping," could create an abyss that could be impossible to overcome.
Women who are reading this, please remember that we raised your husbands, and we love them and your children as well. It is essential for us to treat you with love, too - but perfection should not be required for contact with our grandchildren. Please do not wield access as a weapon.
27
@Grace I am a stay at home mother of 5 little kids. I wish this article addressed the insecurities of new motherhood, and how those play HEAVILY into relationships. Many times, my mil has tried to relate to me, or share an experience she had with her children. I need to remind myself that she is not judging me, or undermining me, but supporting me and deepening our relationship. My mom had an awful relationship with my paternal grandmother because she felt she was always being judged.
Hoping you are able to thread that needle successfully with your children.
5
It’s not a weapon and access is not a right. Don’t be injured just because they say no. You should not be using your grandchildren as your emotional attachment to the world.
1
Dead on! My daughter-in-law is great, but there is some reserve there, and our son is a bit prickly in general. (Don't even try to help when he is cooking!) To make things worse, her mom lives an hour away from her, and we are a plane trip or 12-hr drive away. We try to visit about 3 times a year for a weekend or so, (lost 1-1/2 yrs to Covid) and sometimes rent a vacation house near them for a week in the summer. We love the grandkids, and they love us, but we're not nearly as close as I could wish. I'm sure some of that is my fault; I am not good at cuddly stuff in general, not a natural caretaker.
4
Before we had kids I assumed that my mom and my mother-in-law would be active participants in our kids lives. We all live within a mile of each other but the offers of help rarely come and the interest in spending time with our kids without the parents is almost non-existant. Over the years there have been very few sleep overs, trips to the movies etc. It’s been pretty disappointing. I wish we had a grandparent who wanted to be involved.
14
@Mandy My then-husband's dad and step-mom lived 3 miles away from us while our kids were young. We rarely saw them except for occasional birthdays/holidays. It was pretty sad.
4
@Mandy
…Why no mention of the grandfathers?
2
I was blessed with two wonderful sets of grandparents, both of whom were very close to us, both in proximity and relationship. It makes me sad that we lived farther away and my children had less contact with my parents and my husbands’ growing up.
Today’s parents would benefit from concern about grandparents’ ways meshing perfectly with their own; children are perfectly capable — and in my opinion benefit — from learning what is acceptable in different places and with different adults in charge. It won’t kill them to have a cupcake or be treated sternly if they misbehave.
5
I have interacted with women who have experienced a myriad of problems when their son has grandchildren. They (myself included) are often excluded from having an active role as a Grandmother and it begins with the child's birth. As far as I'm concerned, it is a societal issue. What happens when a single father has a Grandchild? Or two married men have a Grandchild?
6
Maybe we just won the jackpot in the DIL lottery, but we have a wonderful relationship with both our son and DIL (who live close to us) and with their three children (almost 4, 6 and 8.5). The key is to respect what THEY need and not make demands about what we WANT. We are available when they need us, never ever come over without asking if it is convenient, and never give unsolicited advice about anything. As a result they ask us for our opinion often and we give it as just that - opinion not demands. When our DIL's mother comes for a visit we never intrude - we have lots of time with our grandchildren and she lives 800 miles away. BTW, we also have a daughter and SIL (with 2 kids ) who do not live close by and we have a wonderful relationship with both of them. I think that the key is we treat all the adults as adults, recognize that we are not our grandchildren's parents just people who love them and care about them, and respect the adults' opinions and boundaries. We certainly do not always agree; what we always do is treat them with respect. Any relationship between people (blood related or otherwise) requires a commitment on both sides to make it work.
48
@Susan This is the approach I hope to remember to follow one day with my kids when they're adults. I've also promised myself to tread lightly when it comes to sensitive periods that are formative in the new relationship between a daughter-in-law and her husband's parents. Periods like wedding planning and the birth of a new baby. I saw my own in-laws struggle to play a supportive role rather than taking charge in these situations-- I just think falling back to a supportive role was just too difficult for them, although I know they made the effort. But the constant flow of prescription-- your wedding reception ought to be here, you should have flowers of this color, why are you swaddling/using a pacifier/picking the baby up when she cries-- made me pretty guarded early on in our relationship in terms of confiding in them, asking for advice, etc. I just don't do either of these things. Still, I know they would say they have been much easier than their own parents were in terms of respecting boundaries. I guess it's all relative-- ha! They live very far away, but I have tried to do my part to ensure our children are close with them, and that we prioritize visits and regular phone calls between grandkids and grandparents. Our kids are close to their grandparents-- I don't want to get in the way of that.
1
I had a bit of pandemic project tracing family history with an emphasis on the women. I saw over and over again, in the pre social security era, when a women's husband died, she went to live with her daughter, almost never her son. I figure the husband could deal with his mother in law- sort of leave me out of this. But the wife does not want to have her mother in law move in. The exception was farm families. Here I suspect that in this case the widow still had economic agency and stayed put, rather than move onto her son in law's farm.
6
Genealogist here also — I’ve seen both. Both my husband and I have fourth/fifth ggfathers whose mothers lived with them for many years as widows.
I am side-eyeing this article. My MIL would also describe me disparagingly. I used to visit her monthly with my husband and young children out of a desire to do the right thing. All until one visit, when my MIL snapped at me that I should "strap the baby to my back" and come over to clean her house every two weeks. To provide some context, I was a full-time physician mother in fellowship training and working 80 hours a week. I bit my tongue. As a result of her words-- and this was the tip of the iceberg when it came to inappropriate comments-- I have chosen not to go to back to her house with exception of holidays twice a year. As I no longer champion the monthly visits with MIL, I've observed that my husband takes the kids far less frequently to see her. She might erroneously perceive that I am withholding the children from her-- and favoring their relationship with my mother, who we see several times a week and with whom the kids have an incredibly close bond. MIL totally lacks the insight to see how her words and actions have isolated and alienated herself from me, and by extension, her grandchildren.
34
@RB, What a sad state of affairs. Your MIL has outrageous expectations of what you should be doing for her. Her demand that you, a physician working many hours of overtime, "strap the baby to your back" and clean her house every two weeks--is delusionally self-centered. You responded in the only way you could have done-- by simply avoiding her as much as possible. Good for you for prioritizing your own health and sanity. It's too bad she sounds incapable of understanding how toxic her behavior is.
8
@RB That is so sad. I'm sure you're right in assuming she blames you. I would take the same stance you do - holidays only. I'm curious, did your husband ever say anything to her about the bizarre comment she made?
1
@RB The time my MIL snapped at me and I snapped right back was the best decision I ever made. She was bitterly offended and told my husband that “none of her children ever spoke to her that way” (all I said was that I wasn’t a 1950’s housewife). Then she realized I was not her child and that I was not going to be spoken to like a child. We now have a civil relationship and she’s very close to my daughter. Sometimes the relationship is saved by setting explicit boundaries.
3
I am a grandmother to 2 young boys , my daughter's children. We live in the same state so we do see them more than their paternal grandparents do. That being said I have found it helps all around to share stories and pictures with their other grandparents and if we travel we have offered them the chance to stay in our home and have "vacation" with the kids. My mother-in-law lived closer to us and was very involved in our kids' lives when they were young. My mother, who lived in a different state, worked when our kids were young so did not have much hands on time with them. To say mothers and daughters have closer relationships may be true in some cases but is totally false in others. Each family dynamic is different.
9
I think the author is right on - most maternal grandparents get ready access to grandkids while access is much more variable for paternal grandparents.
Full disclosure: I have a young son, and a mom and an MIL. My mom and I are very close and after being married to my husband for nearly 25 years, my MIL and I are also very close. We both worked on developing and maintaining the relationship from the beginning. It has paid off. Unfortunately, both sets of grandparents live too far away to be a daily presence in my son's life.
Most of the comments here from DILs about their MILS are indifferent to negative. But in relationships, it does take two to tango, and it doesn't matter who takes the first step.
I urge these women to consider two things:
1. The guy they though was good enough to love and marry was raised by your MIL.
2. Since half of you have male children, think about the kind of role model you want to be for them when they have spouses and children. If they say your indifference towards your MIL, in the future, they may think their wife's indifference towards you is par for the course.
Remember that your MIL is a mom too.
18
In general, I think this is true. Luckily for my mother, her sons married women from dysfunctional families who wouldn't or couldn't help with their daughters' children. The daughters-in-law, because of their dysfunctional families were inept parents. My mother was always there for those daughters-in-law and the children--feeding, clothing, babysitting. But she only offered help and advice when asked. She wasn't judgmental and kept her mouth shut when she noticed parenting mistakes. (Of course, as the daughter, I heard about all the mistakes.) Those daughters-in-law and their children loved my mother and thought she was a saint. So women, don't weep if your sons marry into dysfunctional families.
6
Your advice about helping without criticism is effective and loving.
But commenting and even crowing over dysfunctional families is beyond tone-deaf, as if there’s a competition or some advantage in another’s difficulties.
2
Come on now, don't put this gatekeeping on the daughter-in-law. We're barely making it trying to shoulder our kids' doctor appointments, school meetings, our own friends, our own jobs and careers, the dog, maybe an actual haircut!, what's-for-dinner-tonight?, mom! my-school-project-is-due-tomorrow-and-its-8PM, and yes, carving out time to see our own mothers who can't stop harassing us how she's not seeing the kids enough. Your own kid (you know, the one I married) who in fact is a whole grown adult, needs to be the one to figure out when we see you, because I literally just cannot have your mother-son relationship on my plate too.
89
My folks worshipped the ground my wife (their only DIL) walked on. That might be because they figured that any woman who would marry me had to be courageous. Right after our wedding ceremony (a mere 55 years ago) my dad took the two of us aside and stated to me “Buddy, you are getting the better of this deal.” That is a quote, not a paraphrase. Somehow, she is still putting up with me. Don’t ask me why.
Some weeks later, my mom came to visit us in our first apartment. My wife came to me after her visit in tears, having cught her MIL looking in her linen closets (and I do not know what else). I call my mom and told her in no uncertain terms that if she ever did that again (inspect my wife’s housekeeping) she would no longer be welcome in our house. I guess the hint took.
Later, it was obvious to my parents and to my in-laws that my wife was capable of cooking both her mother and my mother (absolitely no contest there) under the table.
All of the grandparents generally had the good sense not to offer free advice (which is often worth exactly what you pay for it).
My FIL did get upset when my wife and I were practicing Lamaze breathing prior to the birth of our oldest. He was outside the room and was calling for her (and I told her to keep on with her breathing). She had all of our kids using Lamaze. I was there, so I can swear to the accuracy of that.
12
@Joe From Boston Good for you for standing up for your wife! I'm sure some of the toxic MIL/DIL relationships wouldn't have gotten so out of hand if the husbands respected their wives enough to stand up for them and set some boundaries with the in-laws.
2
I always thought this joke explained it pretty well: A newlywed couple get a surprise visit from HIS parents at dinner time. The wife welcomes them in, serves them a drink and a snack and apologizes that she only has dinner for 2. His parents have their drinks and snack, chat for a bit and go on their way. A little later, just as the wife is serving dinner, HER parents drop by. They apologize for their bad timing. The daughter says, “No problem, adds another set of plates to the table, fries a few eggs, adds a dish of cold cuts and the 4 share a meal.” After they’ve left, as the husband helps the wife pick up, he asks her, “How come you had no dinner for my parents and yet you managed to feed yours?” She explains, “I couldn’t just serve just ANYTHING to your parents! I can’t give them leftovers and fried eggs. When we have them over I have to have a proper meal for them. But my parents - they don’t need anything special.”
36
"That's the way humans are." Hogwash. Many women are raised to believe they can issue any edict they please when it comes to their children, that they are the "real parent," the gatekeeper to the children who can tell the husband (and his family) if, when and how they can interact with the kids. This isn't natural, it's not "the way humans are"--its a social construct that unfairly puts a barrier between many men and their kids.
It's a form of control, i.e., spousal abuse, that many women proudly hold over their husbands. Think about how many sitcoms and commercials you see where the wife tells the husband what to do as if he is an infant, especially when it comes to his children.
My wife sought to lord this sort of control over me (and my family), and when I resisted she began hitting me (abuse starts with control; when that control isn't obeyed the violence begins). And so, after three years, I kicked her out and divorced her.
Now I have 50% custody and my kids and I couldn't be closer. They are also very close with my parents, who are no longer shunned by that hateful woman.
So, to my fellow men out there, don't believe this nonsense about some purported "natural bond" between mothers and kids that puts you on the outside. Without that controlling force in your life, you can have every bit as strong and close relationship with your kids. And your mom can be a fulsome part of their lives, too.
17
I am surprised at the harsh response from the DILs. I have read many of these responses and it looks like these ladies expect their MILs to come to the house and be the maid in cooking, cleaning, and running errands. We grandmothers do all that in our own homes, and we really don’t expect to do it in your home. We see our role as the baby entertainer while the parents do their regular tasks. As the children grow older, we want to be the ones who play Old Maid card games and checkers. Perhaps DILs don’t understand that as the grandmother ages, she has less energy, especially these days because grandchildren are being born when we are in our 60’s and 70’s, while during my own mother’s era, grandchildren were born what grandma was in her 40’s or 50’s. I do want to be the baby entertainer and game player. I do not have the energy to cook your meals, clean your home, or go to Walmart for you. Grandparents may very well back off and become distant, if it is obvious that what is wanted of us is less about our relationship with our grandchildren and more about a role as scullery maid.
12
This response says it all. If one grandma feels this way while the other always picks up dinner on the way over and helps with the dishes, who’s fault is it if the parents host the helpful grandma more frequently? Of course no one’s obligated to pitch in with someone else’s chores. But assuming most young parents are busy up to their eyeballs, it makes sense it’s easier to squeeze in visits with someone who makes it ultra easy than someone who expects to be treated as a guest. There’s really no right or wrong here, just different types of relationships.
And just maybe paternal grandparents are more likely to expect their DIL to host them as guests, while her own parents might enjoy taking care of the whole family? Lots of complicated dynamics here.
25
@Lyn I don't expect my MIL to cook (she can't), clean (she never has), or be helpful in any meaningful way. But her constant need to be around my child trumped our needs every time. ("I don't see why I have to give you privacy—I don't mind if you take your top off in front of me to breastfeed." Guess what? I MIND.)
Much like you, she believes her only job is to be a "baby entertainer."
If that's what I needed, I'd hire a clown. At least Bozo would leave the room while I was pumping.
Your attitude prioritizes your needs and wants over that of the child and its family. We don't exist so that you can find validation in your role as a(n admittedly useless) grandmother.
Threatening to become distant if a parent asks for help? Great tip. Perhaps I can ask MIL to do the dishes for me the next time I see her so that she finally backs off.
That said, how peculiar that so many maternal grandmothers don't seem nearly as tired. And you wonder why they get preferential treatment.
14
@Lyn "Baby entertainer" says it all. Many mothers have very little free time to spend with their children. Especially say, after having a newborn, perhaps the mother would like some time with her child, rather than having In-laws who claim they want to help her, but then just come over and sit around while you cook and clean the house.
6
ZERO MENTION of how busy these Moms may be with young kids, full time jobs, and running the house possibly more solo than not.
And then to pile on how they should also be running elaborate social calendars on behalf of their husband's and husband's family.
Maybe they are even hurt and disappointed in their spouse's lack of real support for the kids, family, house, themselves/self-care. Ever consider that? life is more than a paycheck once married w kids? Maybe your son isn't pulling his own weight, or any real weight, on the homefront? Not to mention, not talking to you much or anyone...
I'd start there. How is the marriage and division of house/mental labor?
33
Maybe you should consider encouraging your daughter to include her in-laws and have a positive relationship with them. After all, your daughter will probably be a mother-in-law someday, when that lovely grandson of yours grows up. I am sure she would appreciate the same consideration from her sons mother-in-law.
5
It's not always the grandparent's choice. Years ago my African-American secretary said her husband's mother declined to babysit for her, saying that was her mother's job, not hers.
My MIL is horrible to me - disrespectful and passive aggressive. That's not my fault. I don't like having her around and don't trust her with my kids. She has shown that she expects things to be done her way when she's at my house. When I'm at her house, I try to do things her way, or I try to I talk about how she would like them done. She can't have that conversation - it's offensive to her. Again, I try to go along with it, but if it involves my kids who need an extra blanket or a quiet bed time or food at regular intervals, I have to assert myself. That also offends her. I would have loved for us to be friends. I would have been happy for her to be really close to my kids, but I can't rely on her. I'm sure she would say I'm controlling and bratty, but really, we come from two very different cultures and one of us is in the middle of the tough years with children at home. It's as much her responsibility to meet in the middle as it is mine, but she has a lighter load and more to lose - you'd think she'd try harder.
21
I love this article and I have yet to experience the relationship with my future daughters in law. I have two sons but I believe relationship should be built on mutual respect from the start. I saw what my parents went through with my two sisters in law so I tried to pick up the lessons from watching their actions. I am blessed that my sons have great relationship with their maternal grand parents. My parents moved to be 5 minutes from us when my oldest was born. Then they took care of my second son while both my husband and I worked full time. They helped us with so many things thoughout the years. We took vacation with my parents so the bond with my two sons grew stronger. I believe the efforts should be orchetrated by both sides.
The real lesson here is my boys watched how we treated their grand parents and we are hoping that they will learn and follow our examples. Unfortunately my in laws live in Europe and I tried to connect with them but I failed. Now that my sons are older, they visited their fraternal grand parents , their aunts, uncles and cousins when they are able.
7
II had a wonderful mil, and my own parents - my mom is still terrific at 91 years young - were fabulous grandparents to my sons. My husband’s parents were much older than mine, and not in the greatest health, and they passed away when my kids were young. As she aged, my mil grew increasingly frail and sad when her husband died, but she would live with us for long periods - we all benefited from her presence. My own dad died from Alzheimer’s, and my youngest son spent much time caring for his grandfather; he was with my father when he died on Christmas morning in 2017. I am so grateful for the loving influence of my husband’s parents, as well as my own, and the bonds the kids created with their grandparents remain a lifelong blessing.
10
This article brings to mind the old saying “your son is your son until he gets a wife. Your daughter’s your daughter the rest of your life.”
12
I think it's all a kind of crap-shoot as I, myself, did NOT have a great relationship with my mother and an even worse one with my mother-in-law. I didn't steer my sons one way or the other as my affinity was always for the "fathers" in the scenario. I now have not one but two "step-daughters-in-law" and a whole different set of grandkids - two of whom I've never met due to Covid. Like I said, I think a lot of it is just interaction in general.
4
It really all depends on family dynamics. I raised my kids next door to my in-laws, and it was awful. They both smoked like chimneys, the FIL was a lecher and alcoholic, and MIL was Determined to protect Dear Son at all costs (and at my expense). The one time I asked her to briefly babysit, in an emergency involving a cow giving birth into a puddle of slush (Dear Son was MIA at the time), MIL said she couldn't 'because she had an appointment to get her hair done'. With my own family thousands of miles away, I just had to cope and enjoy
my mother's occasional visits which were very much as this
author describes.
10
It is all so complicated. I don’t have a daughter-in-law but have witnessed my sister-in-law‘s relationship with her daughter-in-law. Initially, she had a lot of access to her grandchildren. Her daughter-in-law is not close to her own family. Majority of the babysitting, etc., fell to my sister-in-law and brother. I’m not aware of any specific falling out but at some point her daughter-in-law lessened access to the children – maybe because they had hired an au pair and they were not needed as much. The whole thing was puzzling to my brother and his wife and actually to other people in the family. I also suspect that because of her daughter-in-law’s distant relationship with her family, she did not want her children to form more of an attachment to her husband’s family. It has become increasingly awkward to be in the daughter-in-law’s company. My brother’s son does bring the children to their house and my brother’s feeling is that as long as the couple is happy, his and his wife’s feelings are secondary. I feel very badly for my sister-in-law because she takes it more personally and she was a wonderful daughter-in-law to my mother. The shame is that the more people that love your children and that your children love the more secure they are. They are all missing out.
14
I am a dissenting voice. I have two sons, both very very devoted to their mother. I have to wonderful daughters in law, both are warm and treat me well. Some of this is luck, some was carefully orchestrated by me. How? Easy. My sons both saw how I treated my Mother in law. I treated her the way I would my own mother. When she slipped in dementia I helped my husband take care of her. I showed my sons, that the husband's parents are just as important as the wife's parents. I treated my in-laws the way I would treat my parent and my sons learned by example. ( I also told them when they were little boys, that if they married women who were not nice to their mom I would leave them nothing.) Those daughters in law who treat their husband's parents as second class citizens should watch out. They may be teaching their own sons that it is OK.
13
My MIL. When she was younger, she and my FIL would fly out to visit. My husband and I both worked FT and were exhausted but would have dinner ready. By the second night, I'd arrive home and my ex-teacher MIL would be cooking dinner, our kids (and the neighbor kids) would all be in the living room painting a mural, and there would be wine and a candle on the table, where Grandpa was seated. Love her? Oh yes. We decided early on that when my MIL came to visit we played by her rules because the payoff was fantastic.
25
This is a great piece, something for almost all grandparents to read. I'm not forwarding it to my wife though.We've worked out a lot of these problems and I see both sides: grandparents who want too much involvement, and parents who have set tougher boundaries than might be necessary. Starting point A is to love one another, even when that is difficult. It's easy to love babies and children who are part of you. However, people do not change easily and what seems to be a well written article could be mangled by some anxious grandparents.
6
Yes, mothers are usually closer to their daughters and their offspring but I believe it hinges mainly on the kind of parent one is perceived as being.
I was a single mother of three from the time they were all five and under. It was tough in those days becasue women in my realm were supposed to be married and mothers - not want a career as I did.
My children did suffer because they were in the daily care of others much of the time. I also had to be both the good and bad cops and, as many single mothers do, tried too hard to be their friend.
We all made mistakes but many of their mistakes were blamed on my mothering, fairly or not.
Today I have six grandchildren, ages 23 to 9, and four great grandchldren ages 9 to 2. We all get a along great and I send them frequent cards and letters and always have a small gift for them when we get together. My kids are finally figuring out how hard parenting is. It's not for the faint-hearted but I wouldn't trade my beautiful family for anything.
8
My husband and I made it a joint priority for the grandparents to see their grandchildren. That meant frequent trip overseas to see his parents and up to Maine to see mine. So much for other family vacation destinations, but our kids benefited tremendously from regular interaction with their grandparents. Neither set of grandparents was particularly childcare minded, thus we ended up depending on our Pittsburgh neighbors for support who then became like family.
4
We moved here from Kansas 4 years ago to help take care of our son's twin daughters. For a couple of years things were ok, mostly we babysat the girls, not so much interaction with the whole family.
The daughter-in-law has always been standoffish and kept us at arms length, but we were assured and reassured multiple times that we were wanted here to be close to them, both before we moved and after we got here. We have always respected their personal home life and do not interfere.
Much to our sorrow we have done something wrong. We don't know what. We have had no, absolutely no, contact in now 2 1/2 months, and are very fearful that this is a permanent thing.
They live 3 miles away. We are broken hearted. We should have retired some where else. At least then we would still have face time.
7
@DeeDee That is so sad- it might be worth your while to call in a professional or another family member to help you negotiate this situation. A sudden rejection suggests something seriously amiss- maybe a problem with alcohol. Your grandchildren need and have a right to grandparents,as long as there is no abuse or danger to them.
5
@DeeDee
I feel very sorry for you because I wrote a posting about something similar concerning my brother and his family. There was a sudden distancing. I suspect, although I do not know, that my brother’s daughter-in-law is defensive regarding her own family. Although she and her husband appear to be happy, I have always thought that it was a disagreement between them - the daughter-in-law and my brother’ son – about the relationships that they had with their families - kind of you take care of yours I’ll take care of mine. She was not close to her family now or then. Perhaps invite them over for a barbecue or dinner and just don’t be hurt if they decline. You could always just suggest FaceTime again. Acknowledge everyone is so busy, etc. etc. It really doesn’t sound like anything you did. Hope it resolves itself.
5
@Kate Grandparents don't have any rights.
I think there is some merit in the concept of "the Oedipal complex". This can mean an intense relationship between mother and son, reaching into adulthood. When this son marries (if he can finally break away) his wife is then in competition with his mother.
5
I am the mother of a trans man. When people ask me if I mourn the loss of a daughter, I always respond that I do have a daughter, my daughter-in-law, whom I love as much as my 2 sons. I hadn't realized how lucky I am to have a close relationship with her.
7
Where is the son/father in this conversation? I am a mother of 2 pre-teen boys and I work full-time (so I am busy). It is not my responsibility to develop a relationship between my sons and their paternal grandparents. I took the time and energy to developed a relationship between my side and my boys. My husband has never taken the kids home by himself to visit his parents or set-up facetime so the kids can talk to their grandparents. I have done both of these things for my husband's parents. When I noticed my husband was not trying to develop a relationship between his parents and the kids is when I stopped trying.
17
@Paige216 The dynamic you are describing is, I think, the exact point of this article. Grandkids tend to grow up feeling closer to their maternal grandparents because it's usually the mother who arranges family visits, and is much more likely to arrange a visit with her own parents than her husband's parents. Ergo, grandchildren get to know their maternal grandparents better.
18
@Paige216 YES! I was thinking the whole time reading, "maybe if we socialize males to do emotional labor themselves, people will be rewarded with more contact with their eventual grandchildren." And also, what's the deal with blaming women for all child rearing issues? Maybe men contribute to rearing children and family dynamics too?
17
@Jacqueline Kreller-Vanderkooy Byt why are we letting the sons/fathers off the hook? Maybe there should be a paragraph in this article addressing why some men do not want to build a relationship between their parents and kids.
13
Some of us, having lived daily with the fruits of our in-laws' parenting, may not be champing at the bit to leave our offspring to their care...
31
Relationships are so fractured and troubled for young people, whose age at first marriage are going up, along with virginity and social and psychological problems. Social norms have completely changed from humanized interactions to abstract, superficial, and transactional internet-mediated hook-up or resume-driven interview-style dating.
The base nature of human relationships has never been more apparent- there is no poetry to modern quote-unquote "love"- instead it is bald-faced utilitarian pay-for-play. Relationships are euphemistic constructs around thinly-veiled prostitution, supply and demand economic propositions.
Middle aged people are all battle-scarred, and can't keep it together. Older people are ... well, who cares anyway. Navigating toward an authentic emotional, relationship within a family structure built out of ephemeral, one-off transactions between humorless and calculating partners, perhaps gilded with some fake rituals to glue it all together, cannot ultimately provide the kind of authentic fraternity that real love provides. Most people who end up siring families don't deserve authentic love having invested heavily in a simulacrum. Their relationships are weird and fake, and they game them for payoffs that seem incomprehensible to outsiders, like, "The daughters-in-law keep them away from the children,” who never really had any love or real respect for the sperm-donor they desperately chose at a time when they were extremely desperate.
4
It seems that I'm very lucky! I adore my daughter in law and I think the feeling is reciprocated. She and my son would like me to visit more and spend more time with the grand babe. We have frequent Facetime visits which everyone enjoys.
It is very true that my dil is much closer to her mother. They have a very good relationship.
5
I gave birth to my child in my hometown, therefore my mother naturally has easier access to my baby.
My mother-in-law was hysterical and cried every day that the set-up was unfair. She wanted to know why I couldn't think of her as my best friend and let her into my life the way I did my mother, a woman who raised me for decades and cleaned a blood-stained toilet for weeks after my surgery.
Perhaps if paternal grandparents weren't so pushy about snatching a newborn while an emotionally and physically drained new mother bleeds, expels tissue, breastfeeds in pain, and recovers from having her body sliced in two, they'd have a better chance at fostering a healthy long-term relationship with their grandkids.
33
@Mel Exactly. The MIL probably wanted to come over and 'watch the baby' so you could get your housework done. No actual help when you should be resting after a c-section.
4
My parents lived in NY. My brother lived in NY. I lived (and live) over 200 miles away.
Guess whose children spent frequent time with the grandparents?
It grieved me then, and grieves me now that my brother's children didn't get regular, basic time with my parents, have limited memories of them.
And because I loved and adored my in-laws, also NYC residents, they got time with both sets of grandparents.
My now adult kids grew up with far less privilege than their cousins. But they have far more treasures of the heart.
5
Dr. Kornbhaber is correct, the mother-daughter relationship is beyond comparison to most others.
However; I have a remarkably wonderful relationship with my mother-in-law and with my late father-in-law when he was alive. She has always said, after a strained relationship with her own in-laws, that she would strive to be a better MIL to her daughter-in-law (lucky me!). We love her company, have vacationed together many times, stay in touch regularly. She absolutely adores our sons, spends time with them, brings them engaging gifts and gives them--best of all--her time. She and I text apart from my husband, but also with him, too.
I hope she feels we have treated her as well as she treats us. Strong in-law relationships take patience, understanding, and perhaps most of all: open-mindedness. My boys are lucky to have Grandmama. And so are we.
12
Families are different. My mother is emotionally cold and possibly a narcissist. She's been a good gift-giver to my now-grown daughter but doesn't realize that her granddaughter doesn't really like her and tolerates communication with her mainly because of my beloved stepfather, "Grandpa," (why a nice guy like him married my mom and has stayed w/her for over 40 years is a mystery).
3
Hmm. I only have brothers. Their kids are all grown now, and my elderly mother doesn't hear from the grandchildren from one year to the next. I used to blame my sisters-in-law for the fact that we don't see them. I saw them as gatekeepers of a closed gate.
This is internalized misogyny. It was my brothers' job to respect their mother, to care for her and be kind to her, to insist their children come around. It is about sons not daughters. Although social mores do make this very hard for them, it is time to stop blaming the daughter-in-law.
Sons! Step up and take care of your old parents. You will be them soon enough.
60
@A Little Grumpy Oh, yeah? An explanation of "internalized misogyny" doesn't have an authentic ring to it. There is more to the story, but you are more interested in making your point, which seems to be a generalized guilt trip on half of society.
Sounds legit to me. Women judging and blaming women for not doing everything society expects us to. Not even stuff we feel like doing or have the capacity to do. If dudes want their family connection between kids and grandparents to be closer, they can help more with it. Women can only do so much.
5
@W.B.
My brothers don't know how I feel. I work very hard to keep my eye on the goal. Caring for my mother, physically and emotionally, is my goal. And it is my privilege. My mother deserves it. If they don't see that, it's their problem. It is their loss.
My point is simply that I learned to stop blaming my sisters-in-law for a failing that is not theirs. If you were paying attention, you'd see I was actually primarily criticizing myself.
I am surprised that age and health of grandparents isn’t brought up more frequently. My in-laws were in their 70s when my daughter was born. Their visits are difficult because they too need care. They cannot drive and sometimes require help to move around. My MIL could only hold my daughter for short periods of time while sitting. This is her first and only grandchild and I think it makes her sad that her time as a grandmother is not living up to what she had imagined.
12
@Sarah This is good to know - my son and daughter-in-law are expecting their first child (my first grandchild) later this month, and I will turn 70 in a few months. I happily agreed to move across the country to live nearby in a house they bought for me, and help care for my grandson. I am confident that, at least until he starts crawling and walking, I will be able to keep up with him for a few days a week as his main caregiver. My DIL's mother is 80 years old, lives across the country, and does not want to be involved. It's not clear whether she will even visit following the birth. This will be her first grandchild also. For better or worse, we plan for me to be the "hands-on" grandma. My own chronic health conditions make for aches and pains and exhaustion that I do my best to set aside. This article and the comments are very pertinent to my situation, and I appreciate the sharing of diverse experiences and points of view.
2
@Karen - You seem very self aware. Sounds like you'll be a wonderful grandmother.
1
My husband and I married young with the intention of enjoying several years of marriage without kids. My MIL never welcomed me, does not reciprocate my attempts to reach out and form a meaningful relationship, and has explicitly said that she does not consider in-laws to be family.
And yet as my husband and I are contemplating kids, my MIL has started expressing how her friends and sisters never see their sons' children because of micromanaging daughters-in-law. It seems like she is gearing up for this in our family. She asks my husband if we're trying for kids yet, but she doesn't ask about me.
That's not to say the cited research is incorrect, but why do we by default blame daughters-in-law?
25
I always envy families that have help from grandparents. I’m not talking 25 hours a week of child care, maybe baby sitting for a date night once a month (or even per year) might be nice.
18
My in-laws recently came to visit after a long separation from us due to Covid. They spent the entire time complimenting my husband and I on our parenting, our home, our children. When they left, I told friends I felt like a set of cheerleaders had just spent the weekend building me up. We are far from perfect, but they really looked for the good and acknowledged it at every turn. They have always been positive people, but I think they made a conscious effort to build us up. I have tucked away this example for when my kids are grown: don't criticize, just love.
53
Interesting article but it is too limited. My daughters were much closer with their paternal grandmother - it was her warm personality juxtaposed to my mother's cold one. I also think that distance plays a huge role. If the paternal MIL is closer and available, the grandchildren are probably going to be closer to her. This has been proven true with my own daughters' children. I am closer to the grandchildren here than the ones that live far away. I certainly love all of my grandchildren equally - but I see the ones here and the facetime with the ones far away. It's a different relationship, sadly.
7
I’m not a huge fan of my MIL but she loves my daughter very much. I would never dream of withholding that love from my daughter. It would be a selfish cruelty to both of them to do so. My child will find out soon enough that it is an often heartless world. I feel that I owe it to her now to surround her with as much of an abundance of love as I can.
32
You, your child, your mother-in law, and all the extended family are blessed my your generous attitude.
25
While this is only an anacdotal exception, my brother and I were much closer to our paternal grandparents than our material. I suspect some of this had to do with distance as we could easily ride our bikes to our paternal grandparent's home, while our maternal grandparents lived across town. Still, we visited often both grandparents and in general, had good relations with both.
I think some of the issues that I have seen in friends and other families involving grandparents and family in general is a growing inability for people to just get along. Outside of abusive, controlling, neglectful or irresponsible behavior, in general, all relationships in life can benefit from patience, acceptance, compassion and an "easy does it" approach.
I think people use the same criteria for their friends and lovers to family which, in general, isn't the same thing. In the first two cases, most of us can afford to be picky - after all there is only so much free time to go around and why spend it with anyone that aggravates you?
However, once in a family situation where you are dealing with extended family, in-laws, even longtime friends of your spouse or partner, most of us really need to step back and try and get along. The problem is that most people, from a variety of different factors, aren't as good at this than society was 50 or 100 years ago.
If you love someone, putting up with their obnoxious friend or family member shouldn't be that big of a deal.....
.
9
So many variables. My brother and I were largely raised by our paternal grandparents after our mother died when we were children - they lived next door and she was a FT homemaker, while our materials gps lived a couple of miles away and she worked. I have often wished my maternal gm had been more assertive, but now I know from my own experience that she must’ve been so devastated by the loss of her daughter that breathing would have been a challenge for her. I also wish I had understood these dynamics better, as my husband did not maintain the relationships with his parents that I expected from my father’s with his. Today, son and toddler granddaughter live with husband and me for a myriad of complex reasons, so I am reprising my own nana’a role, except now it’s 24/7 and live-in. It all depends.
3
I am certain that if you asked my in-laws why they don't have much of a relationship with their son (my husband) and grandkids (our children), they would say it is because I am cold, distant and unloving. They would neglect to mention that, when my son was 2, they sent my husband and me and e-mail stating that we were failing our son by not raising him in their chosen religious tradition. I may be cold, distant and unloving because, during our first fragile years of parenthood, they told us we were doing it wrong.
30
One can always find reasons to exclude others. Let grace abound.
10
@Jk
If you can't learn from your experiences, then you deserve to be taken advantage of/treated badly/etc. I am willing to give people several chances, but I am not willing to give them a pass forever.
10
My mother in law is fantastic. So is my father in law. Without their love and support we’d be a lot worse off. They have a close relationship with their daughter and have worked mighty hard to include me in their family.
16
Gee, I would have thought this was obvious to anyone with a child! Of course grandmothers are closer to their daughter’s children! I get along very well with my daughter in law, but I am very careful not to intrude or overstep. I’m constantly aware that she has her own mother and they are very close. And yes, I’m closer to my own daughter and her children. I love all the grandkids equally, but I can speak more freely with my daughter and we share family history in a way my daughter-in-law doesn’t. It all seems pretty natural and normal to me. Might be different in a dysfunctional family…
22
Cancer took my mother quickly and cruelly when she was 53. From when I was a teenager, long before I met my husband, we would day dream about raising my children together. She couldn't wait to be a grandmother. She didn't have a lot of help and she was looking forward to be involved in her grandchildren's lives. She never got to be a grandmother. It causes me a great deal of pain to do this without her, but I am so lucky to have generous in laws. I would hope in an alternate life, if she was alive, they would be around just as much. They have been there nearly every moment I thought my mother would be there. They took care of me and my daughter after she was born. They watched her when she became a big sister. They have cooked and cleaned and cuddled and been there when we have needed them most. I miss my mom every single day, but I still count my lucky stars that I married a wonderful man with wonderful parents.
28
As a child I was much closer to my father's parents, especially his mother (mostly because she was so present for my mother after my birth, but also because both grandfathers had issues of different kinds, involving coldness and abuse). I work very hard to build and maintain a good relationship with my DIL ever since my son began dating her, and I think she knows that we see her as a daughter. One thing that helped a whole lot is that she and my son lived with us for a year right before they married. Also, the kids now live at a distance geographically, but we live in the same city as my DIL's parents and we get on well as independent adult friends, so the families do all sorts of things together quite naturally, especially at holiday times. I wish there was a name for the relationship between the two grandmothers, because we really find it helpful to have each other as we relate to our kids. The Italian "consuocera," co-mother-in-law, comes closest.
5
@Susanna Singer - in Spanish, there is such a word, it is comadre (co-mother). And always said with much love. :)
3
There is a theory about this phenomenon in evolutionary biology. Essentially, women are always sure that their children are theirs, as they came from the womb. Men always have less assurance since a woman could, theoretically, trick them. In an attempt to not overinvest in people that may or may not be your biological offspring, you can be more distant. That is supposed to explain why the maternal grandmother is the closest to the grandchildren and the paternal grandfather is the most distant, and the other two are somewhat in the middle.
What's interesting about this theory is that it attributes the distance or closeness to the grandparents, not the parents, of the children. That is my personal experience as well. My father's father was very disinterested in us, while my mother's mom was quite the opposite. Maybe the author should take a closer look at the older generation for some causation.
9
@Laura
I enjoyed your comment as I read a similar article in the Economist years ago about why maternal grandparents can feel more invested in the wellbeing of their GC. That said, I think the bond between in-laws and DIL's can also be affected by cultural differences and expectations of involvement in their children's lives and GC's lives. If the relationship was challenged at the outset by disapproval of a child's spouse, that can create the long-term seeds of enmity that never truly recover. Moreover if there is racial intolerance, the DIL can suspect her IL's of negative influence on her children with respect to their cultural identities and self confidence. This is a topic of universal relevance and part of the human condition. No family is perfect!
1
Evolutionary biology is a great excuse for males to not build meaningful relationships. Very handy get out of jail free card.
What hope do step families have? They KNOW they’re not “actually” family.
2
Why is this a problem with the mom? Good for her for keeping especially strong ties with the people who raised her.
Sounds like paternal grandparents should focus on the bond with their son and (decades earlier) raising a man who will someday do his full share of the emotional and logistical aspects of housework.
31
I should add, I’m saying this as someone with a GREAT relationship with my in-laws. They’re over to see their granddaughter multiple times a week and I NEVER say no to them.
So my comment isn’t motivated by my personal situation, just by the sexism of this viewpoint.
6
I’ve been very fortunate as I have a wonderful daughter in law who said when they got married “I’m going to call you Mom” . I make sure to treat her as my daughter. She is a doctor and my son is currently home with their two small kids and I have been welcomed in to help as much as I can be there. In part the MIL of the daughter winds up in secondary position because women are the primary caretakers usually and are understandably closer to their own moms. My son says I am their PR Department as I reinforce them with the kids, never criticize or interfere.
I am lucky and I know it.
15
@Theresa
They are lucky too.
4
Totally resonates.
As a young child, going to my mom's mom house, it was always a great time: lots of playing, snacks, and love. Moreover, I threw more tantrums, and misbehaved more than I care to remember. I'm not proud of it, but I realize now it was a sign I felt uninhibited and care-free at her house -- and I loved going there.
Going to my father's parents house was another story. Bad behaviors were scolded. Loud playing was not aloud. Eating was only at meal time. By the time I was of school age, I knew that if I brought a book along, and read it quietly in another room I could get through the visit without any issue. I found out later in life my grandfather was sad he was never close with his grandkids ... but at the same time, I don't know how close he was to his son (my father) either.
16
I really like your paragraph about why you threw tantrums and misbehaved at your maternal grandparents’ house. Could that illuminate my own child’s misbehavior? I certainly hope so. Thanks for the insight! Good on you for admitting it later on.
4
I only have 2 sons, and one has my 2 1/2 yr old granddaughter my other son - if he has kids it will be a long while as he is career focused only. My DIL has been in our lives since my son was 19 and she was 18, they married when he was 30 and she was 29, so my DIL has been in my life a long time. She is very generous with our granddaughter and her concern for us, she's a dream of a DIL. Her mom lives out of state but my DIL talks to her mom 3-4x at least a day, I wish I had that with her too but I appreciate what I have. My son ensures that we have quality and quantity time with his little girl, when I had only boys I made it my life's goal to ensure I was as close as I could get to my boys and I think my relationship with both is very good, not a daughter-mom relationship but a good, close, distant at times mom-son relationship. I feel very lucky that my granddaughter is so integral to our lives because both my son and DIL feel we are important for our granddaughter's growth.
6
I took my MIL with me on a business trip to Hawaii. People were astonished that I did so. We had great fun. That said she was much closer to her daughter than to her sons and their wives. She actively engaged with her daughters children, but not those of her other son. When we finally had a child, I real pushed her to treat my son as she had treated those of her daughter. Each spring as I was planning out my sons long, long summer vacation from school, I’d call MIL and say “which of these two weeks works for you to care for xxx?” At first she was resistant, later she and FIL confessed our son was their favorite. We are all grateful for this time we had during their lives and his childhood. In his final years, my memory challenged FIL will hug me and tell me what a great DIL I’ve been. A nice circle of life. Family matters take open minds and committed hearts.
16
My mom always said "a son is a son until he takes a wife, but a daughter is a daughter for the rest of your life".
17
This article misses a basic fact. The origins of a mother-daughter-in-law relationship didn't begin during gestation but as a girlfriend to boyfriend then fiancee relationship. How was that? Warm and welcoming or distant and suspicious. And later, did the mother-in-law presume and start dishing advice unasked and know better? People take that sort of thing better from their own parents and are more freely able to tell them where to get off. First impressions are lasting impressions and maybe, that girl you might have dismissive still resents the treatment and resents outside interference in her family.
33
@Me that door swings both ways. If that woman rejects her mother in law, because her mother in law didn't act warmly at first, then she may model such behavior to her son eventually, and he may then believes it is normal to turn away from his mother once he is married. I have seen it done.
I adore my son’s fiancée. She is kind and gentle and loving. I have a daughter whom I haven’t seen in three years, who texts me twice a year, with two or three word texts, on my birthday and Mother’s Day. Her estrangement dates from a very bitter divorce 12 years ago. My son behaved abominably when my brother was dying of pancreatic cancer this past spring. The pain from both my children is gutting. My only hope is Shanna.
5
My old Italian friend said: “The mother of the mother is the grandmother. The mother of the father is a guest.” This has certainly been my experience.
Excellent column. Thanks. Analee Stein
35
@Analee Stein And my mother used to say: A daugter's a daughter all of her life; a son's a son 'til he takes a wife."
Maybe maternal grandparents get the advantage when counting visits to young grandkids but remember when those same grandparents age further it is the same daughters who will more likely than not be expected to provide the elder care in nameless and unpaid ways. I know writers will chime in with exceptions and all such supportive adult children are deeply honorable, but really it’s the lineage of family care at work here. I hope the stories of exceptions to the female-care rule only develop and teach next-gen kids care and good relationships for all.
20
The daughter in law- mother in law relationship requires emotional maturity of a special kind. Everybody doesn’t have it. It requires a generous spirit on both parts and an acknowledgment that we can benefit from relationships with imperfect people.
Had a lovely relationship with daughter-in-law until grandchildren arrived. Now nothing. Nothing I can do about it. My son does what he can to allow communication. Mostly I am just glad they are good parents and a loving family unit. I enjoy that from afar. We can be grateful for what is or long for what isn’t. I try to be grateful.
26
I guess we have been pretty lucky. My wife and I have always been on good terms with the parents of our three children-in-law (possibly because we have always been living at a considerable distance, minimum 300 miles, from all of them).
Our relationship with our one daughter-in-law has been very good, perhaps because she is an only child, and other than her mother, we (and our extended family) are the only family she has. Getting information of a personal nature out of our son usually involves a crowbar, unless he wants something.
We are on very good terms with all of our grandchildren, even though they have in their early lives lived more than 1000 miles away from us. (Yeah, we did visit, and their folks did move a lot closer, but still a few states away. We can visit now since we are vaccinated.)
So I have to ask: Why do grandparents and grandchildren get along so well?
You can offer whatever suggestion you want, but my favorite answer (only partially tongue in cheek) to that question is "Because they have a common enemy."
ME? I have at least a biweekly chess date with one of my grandsons (my son's 12 year old son) via computer. Now that he has his own cell phone, we can discuss the games and do some post-game analysis. Oh, yeah, ... I have a clock which gets cleaned quite regularly.
Some months ago, I was tutoring my other grandson (my daughter's 12 year old son) in math via Zoom meetings. That also worked well for us.
18
@Joe From Boston
"Why do grandparents and grandchildren get along so well?"
Grandparents act as if they are happy to see you.
Do parents do that?
My siblings and I were closet to our dad's mom. Even my mom was closer to her as well. I think it depends on the relationship that the mother has with her own mom. In my mother's case, her relationship with her own mother was very strained, and with her mother-n-law (my grandmother) it was more carefree, and enjoyable. I suspect that my grandmother knew she had an "in" due to this strained relationship, and really made the most of it and made my mom feel very valued and taught her many things; as kids we felt this joy. I think you really have to be creative, and figure out what the daughter-n-law will cherish and enjoy, not just what you want.
13
My 3 children are my joys, have been for nearly 40 years. My grands are 5, 3, 2, and 0.045. My older son is father to 2 boys, my only daughter is mother to 2 girls.
My DIL & SIL are my arms length “kids” too. I respect the distance as acknowledgement that we’re not original to each other’s lives. It’s OK. I back off on discussions after I’ve made my point, usually on politics or gardening. So, I’m not as casual, emotionally open to them as with my birthed sons and daughter, and vice versa. I know I do not know them well enough to assume a familial intimacy or acceptance.
My son with sons is a great parent on his own as is my DIL. My daughter is a blast sharing her experiences as a Mom with me both verbally and physically. My SIL is a loving husband, hilarious Dad. My granddaughters live 8 minutes from me. My grandsons live close to 1,000 miles away which likely contributes greatly to peace in our valley! Their Mom is very sensitive and I can be obtuse, a talent since childhood.
The Pandemic has been a trial for us all. Video calls are great but you feel neither giant hugs nor their pecking kisses. No tickles, or pick ups high in the air. We had a lapse of 18 months between our last prePandemic visit until our visit in June. One grandson was an infant in January 2020. We missed most of his first year of life. It will not be a deficit to him, to us it’s a loss never to be retrieved.
I view my place in this family stew as backup, not Diva.
15
So true and so sad! Because of living hundreds to thousands of miles away, I saw my sons’ children once a year at most. I was the family breadwinner since before my grandchildren were born. I needed my job.
Ironically, I was always known for my nurturing skills. My sons turned out to be strong feminists and family men. And the the young faculty members in the department I led praised my guidance and support. Sadly, my grandchildren never knew.
5
mmmh, I absolutely not in my case.... I loved having my mother-in-law around, I loved it when she helped take care of my two boys. I had more in common about parenting with my mother-in-law than with my own mother. I love my mother, but she and I differ so much in ideology. And YES< I am eternally grateful to my mother-in-law for spending so much time with my kids. To this day; My kids are closer to "granny" than to my mother. My mother was never and will never be an engaging grandmother; whereas my mother in law was and continues to be.
8
Oh please! This is a non-story. In today's world with covid it is possible to go 18 months without seeing grandchildren. I know, my daughter lives in Italy! Individuals need to respect each other's boundaries. Yes, it goes both ways.
7
I appreciate that some families do have gatekeeping behavior, but the bonds mentioned between mothers and daughters go both ways, and I would suggest grandparents bear at least some of the responsibility for reinforcing social norms around the primacy of maternal relationships.
In my own house, we say yes whenever grandparents want to come visit, but my inlaws just don't ask. Even with Covid the longest my parents have gone without seeing my daughter is a few months, but she's almost 2 and has only seen my husband's parents 3 times in her life and still clams up whenever we FaceTime with them. Meanwhile they are with his sisters' kids constantly, to the extent that when we suggest dates for a visit they usually say no because they already have something else planned.
My mother-in-law has said that she wants to see her son and granddaughter more, and last year relayed via my sister-in-law that she thinks I'm in between her and my husband, but my perspective (which I've discussed with my husband and he agrees with) is that the large majority of the time when we suggest things they say no, so the ball is in their court in terms of finding a time that works for them.
14
Maybe I'm alone in this, but I don't see at all what is being portrayed in this. paternal grandparents these days are very involved. I see it among all of my children's friends and their families. Fathers are much more active in their kids' lives and by extension, so are their parents. Personally, I'm the one my son and his girlfriend always call on for help. Sure the girlfriend is extremely, extremely close to her mom and dad, but she also knows how close my son and i are and that I will always be around for him as well as her, and she has no problem asking me for advice or my opinion. If I don't see their child for a couple weeks, I have withdrawals, and they both know it. That being said, maybe it's the way I was raised. My dad's parents lived an hour and a half away. my mom's were about 20 minutes. We saw mom's parents more often, but the visits with my dad's were lengthier, a couple days vs a few hours. I never saw anything but total cooperation and respect on either side, and both sets of grands were always thrilled to have us around.
3
My husband and I count ourselves blessed by the fact that we have wonderful relationships with both our daughters-in-law. Our oldest son, his wife and our grandchild moved to live closer to us - a gift we never expected. As one who had a wonderful MIL, I always have tried to be warm and supportive to my DILs, but always respecting their independence and the fact that they and my sons now have their own families.
13
In gay and lesbian families, relationship dynamics determine the level of grandparent involvement in absence of the maternal/paternal distinction. These grandparents might take a page out of that book and work on improving the quality of their relationships with the couple (are the grandparents accepting of the spouse and on good terms? are they following the boundaries set by the grandkids' parents? do they have reliable time and space to offer to the grandkids?) instead of blaming a maternal advantage for their distance from the grandkids.
11
When I was growing up all my grandparents lived in the same town as I did. But we saw far more of my mother's parents. And my paternal grandparents had closer ties to their daughters' children. (They had 8 kids. But I was the oldest grandchild on my dad's side and I saw way less of my paternal grandparents than some of my cousins did.) As far as I know everyone had a good relationship with everyone else.
I think my siblings and I turned out all right. But, there were little slights we definitely noticed. Like my paternal grandmother gave her daughters' daughters pieces of flatware at holidays to help them build collections of place settings for future use and those of us who were the daughters of sons did not get these same gifts.
My grandparents are all gone now and I don't think about this often.
Anyhow, maybe this ends with my generation, because my brothers and I don't have any kids and my sister and her family live with her widowed mother-in-law.
7
I think the closeness post-grandchildren is a continuation of long-established patterns. I have one son only. My husband and I adore his company, but it is not unusual for us not to be in touch for a week or two at a time. When he's busy, even less. That's fine. When we see each other, he gives every sign of enjoying spending time with us and being glad to see us, e.g. he includes friends on social evenings with us, is keen to talk about his life, is interested in ours, etc.
On the other hand, my friends who have daughters speak or text with them much more often, sometimes multiple times a day. They are involved with each others' lives almost as if they still lived in the same house.
When grandchildren arrive on the scene, I can imagine these patterns just continuing.
10
Welllll.....it's about time that mothers realize that daughters are the true gift in the family, not sons. However, long ago, particularly in the Boomer generation, mothers and fathers alike preferred sons. But WHY? Probably because the misogynistic husband wanted a son----a buddy for himself. But in any event, my mother is deceased and when I married my husband, I wanted a relationship with my mother in law. I'd call her every week. I was the one calling her. She never called me. Yet, in hindsight, she should have called me. I was the newcomer to the family. She should have extended that olive branch to me and made me feel welcomed. But she never did. Instead, when I'd call, she'd do nothing but fill my ear with gossip about everyone in the family, including her own daughter who bent over backwards to please her. My calls started becoming fewer and farther between. She'd also instruct me not to listen to my husband. The woman was poison from the beginning and the sad fact is that she never took any interest in me whatsoever. After nearly 2 decades with my husband, she still couldn't tell you which high school I graduated from because she have never taken the time to get to know me. It's sad but it's her own fault why there is a distance in the family.
18
"She moved to Southern California last year to help her son and his wife with their new baby, her first grandchild. “I expected I’d be hands-on, babysitting in the evenings.” She EXPECTED? Ugh. Obnoxious, presumptuous. I wouldn't want her around.
41
@Ann that's what stood out to me, especially in combination with the following paragraph: "Her daughter-in-law, whom she didn’t know well before her pregnancy..."
How surprising that this young woman, who you showed little interest in prior to her incubating your genes, isn't immediately enthusiastic about handing over her child to you. Big lack of self-awareness in this grandmother.
38
My thoughts exactly. This woman took it upon herself to move, presumably without any discussion with her son. She deserves what she got! That is pushy and presumptuous. I wouldn’t want someone like that around me or my child. I have a loving relationship with my in-laws. I never acted as “gatekeeper” for my son when he was young. But my in-laws and my own parents were also completely respectful of my and my husband’s place as the parents. This woman did not afford her son and his partner that respect. Yikes indeed!
18
Sorry. She raised her son, imagined she could be of some occasional help with the family. It takes some way out thinking to imagine you would not be welcome in your son’s life. One can get there—- I know—- but it requires re-working the expectation.
Expecting you can help out with your grandkids is like imagining you will be able to see or walk next year. If you can’t see or walk you will deal with it, but it is normal to expect you will be able to do so.
12
I wish this article would address the reality of so many difficult mother in laws. What about the boomer mother-in-laws that have coddled and enabled their sons? Thus turning into massive overreach and micro-managing as they become married adults? Where is the study on that? I year for a mother in law that is an understanding, down-to-earth, and not a micromanager/helicopter parent. Where are they??? The relationship between mother and son is the one that needs the research done.
52
This article is causing untold pain in our home by validating unfounded fears. It is composed entirely of generalities, and while it alludes to ‘research’ to bolster claims, the only things it can cite is more generalities from someone with a Dr. in front of their name.
15
I agree that the son and his mother share in the responsibility of fostering relations with the grandchildren. I was very close to and adoring of my father’s mother. On my mother’s side- not do much. Now, I have a great relationship with my adult son. Though his wife’s family live close to them and are able to help out and spend time with my 3 year old grandson, my son appreciates my traveling monthly, 3-4 hours on the train- for weekend visits. All of us, on all sides, appreciate and feel lucky that we all like each other. Of course, the luckiest one is my grandson.
9
This entire article is so true and because of that, saddens me. I have always been close to both my children and respectful of the primary loyalty a son MUST have to his wife and daughter MUST have to her husband. Perhaps with many in-laws, one has the non divorced FIL and the live in girlfriend who proclaims her grandmother status, pushing out not only the maternal grandmother but the paternal grandmother as well. Most events are planned exclusively for them. The paternal grandmother was even asked by the daughter in law to babysit while they celebrated her son's birthday. I feel this is disrespectful and ignorant. The uplifting part is that it will all come back around when their son get married. You can only see and feel it when you are going through it yourself.
8
It's interesting to me that the article places the responsibility of maintaining relationships with both sets of grandparents squarely on the mother's shoulders. True, a mother may plan kids' playdates with her own parents. But why aren't sons the ones responsible for maintaining playdates with their own parents, particularly when both mother and father work?
Perhaps sons may be less inclined to take initiative to plan playdates or respond to their parents' requests (as the article argues that mothers and daughters are uniquely close). But why does it then fall to the mother to take on this role for him? And if she doesn't, why is she now the one responsible for the kids' not seeing the paternal grandparents?
The article falls into the disappointing trap of reinforcing women's "invisible workload" as simply a given. Perhaps this might have occurred to the author if she had taken the time to include more mothers' perspectives--or indeed ANY mother's perspective--in the article.
53
@MK
I feel so very grateful that a woman as wonderful as my daughter-in-law came into my son’s life and has given him 2 beautiful children. However, in response to the comment above, I think many wives are challenged to want to share their husbands and children with their mother-in-laws. A husband shows loyalty to his wife along this line by not interfering in issues between his wife and his mother. The role of the son’s mother, it seems to me, is to be patient with the process of developing a relationship with her grandchildren and maintaining a relationship with her son by honoring her daughter-in-law’s comfort level — this, accompanied by a closely-studied understanding of what her daughter-in-law needs and a willingness to help out in any way she can. This patience and understanding of what the daughter-in-law needs can help nourish a fulfilling role for the grandmother to be included in the family, albeit one that may be very different from what the grandmother had originally imagined for herself. The key is to resist falling prey to the grandmother role that is expected and be open to one created in unchartered territory.
8
My wife's three daughters gave birth to three babies over a four month period starting a year ago October. It was wonderful. I'm the step father/grandfather. I marvel at my wife's love and skill in caring for the babies and negotiating the feelings of her daughters with a good balance of being helpful without taking control.
She is my mentor when it comes to how to be a supportive g.p., which I was clueless about having grown up in a fabulously disfunctional family. You can teach an old dog new tricks if he/she is willing to learn, which the paternal grandparent and mother in law aren't willing to do. They complain about not seeing the babies enough and villify the moms, but do nothing to accomodate the needs of them or their babies. They are reaping the rewards of their own selfishness, and are not the victims of the "mother in law effect".
26
I agree that this would be sad if the paternal grandparents were respectful of boundaries and uncritical, but my experience has been a sharp awakening. I never thought I would have a negative relationship with my in-laws... until my mother-in-law started making fun of me at every turn (saying it was just a joke) and then physically trying to take my daughter from me as I tried to comfort her from a fall or walk her through a tantrum.
It annoyed my husband as well, as we and other family members felt she was trying to take over as mother.
I worked full-time, and we usually spent every holiday and weekend with my in-laws. I had little time to be alone with my daughter. I wanted to take her trick-or-treating downtown AND take her trick-or-treating on Halloween. Because I wanted some memories. Memories. But when I very gently explained that this is what I wanted, my mother-in-law threw a fit that she wasn't given a day to take my one-year-old daughter out (even though my own parents wouldn't have had their own day... and even though my parents regularly get skipped when celebrating holidays like Thanksgiving).
My husband was so stressed by his mother's fit, that he told me not to take our daughter downtown because of the huge problem it would cause.
So, as nice as grandparents seem to their friends and neighbors, sometimes they rob a loving mom of the ability to parent her own children. If the mom works outside of the home, their frequent intrusions can even be destructive
37
This article hits very close to home (as did Lesley Stahl's chapter about same in her book). The walking on eggshells comment is one that my husband and I have shared as well. Our son is an only child. Our relationship with our daughter in law and our grandchildren has been a struggle. We have sometimes never seen gifts that have been given. We are not called grandpa and grandma (our choice) and there have been times when the people who are called grandpa and grandma are the only grandparents. It's sad and not at all what we were hoping for, but its a battle we can't fight.
13
@Pepper
I feel for you. I miss both my parents terribly and wish they could have enjoyed my children. I am going to say it is immaturity and lack of the REAL importance of family.
1
This article may have some truths when children are infants or toddlers, but as children age, and are able to make choices, the seeming advantage will fade. If the parents have affection for their parents, children will also have affection for their grandparents. My parents and in-laws could not have been more different in personalities, energy, or disposable income. And yet, as my children aged, they loved each set equally, whether it was watching golf on tv with one set or going to a toy store to buy whatever they wanted with the other. Sure, the primary caregiver gets the advantage when the children are babies. But let’s have a study to see if that advantage holds.
10
I’m really bothered by the example of the grandparents with their adult son. He has two kids, if you want to see him go to his house, don’t be miffed when he doesn’t come to yours. I notice this with many boomer grandparents, that the grandchildren should come to you, that was certainly never the case for me growing up and had my grandparents not come to my parents home Sunday’s I doubt I would have seen them so much and have had the rich relationship with them that I treasure. It’s a special kind of arrogance to complain about not being visited rather than taking the initiative to visit.
49
This situation is true for my family in that my mom is closer to my child, & while my husband doesn't plan get-togethers with his mom, there are good reasons why we keep a distance from her. Before we married, his mom was kind enough to me. After we married & both moved out of our mom's homes, she immediately retired but never tried to spend time with us or get to know me. In fact, we lived 10 minutes from her (and 20 min from my mom) & when we saw her, which was typically only for her bday & holidays bc she canceled on us often, she spent the time complaining about how much she missed my husband (and made some creepy comments which would take too long to list here). She put no effort into getting to know me, she once told my husband he should have married my sister (because she looks more like herself), & made me feel like I ruined her life by "taking away" her son. Once we got pregnant 4 years later, she kept saying it was her right to name our baby & that she would kidnap our kid if she didn't like the name we'd chosen. If she had reached out to befriend me during the 5 years prior to my pregnancy (& refrained from idolizing my sister & making so many crazy comments), then perhaps we could have been friends (which is what I wanted in a MIL). Her efforts to see us more often once I gave birth were too little, too late...I was disgusted with her by then. Maybe she does care about me, but all her words & actions suggest she only cares about my kid, and I can't trust her now.
20
The author makes a much stronger claim than is supported by the one article linked, a study of children in rural Iowa. That article showed an approximate split of 40-30-30, for mother's, father's, equal for dominance in grandparents relations. They further attribute all of that advantage to the quality of the relationship between the parent and their own parent. So, unsurprisingly, this NYT article should really have said that the quality of your kids' relationships with your parents will depend on the quality of your own relationship with them.
23
I feel fortunate because I love my son's soon to be bride. To me it was a gift when she entered our lives because she is the daughter I always wanted and I sure hope that this story is not what I experience in the future
9
@R. Beitler There are many anecdotes in the letters section of excellent MIL/DIL relationships -- but start early, as you have, and maintain that great relationship before there are any grandchildren. And then don't try to micromanage their parenting!
5
The article is highly placing the blame on the daughter in law. I think it is a misplaced article. Coming from a strict cultural asian background, where a daughter is expected to give up everything after wedding, gets no support whatsoever in the in laws family. Every step is sharply observed and commented upon by the elderly in family. Infact in my personal experience rules for daughter and daughter in law differs within the family.
The article mentions that daughter in law keeps the kids away. Of course, when every behaviour of her child is compared and contrasted against how inlaws brought up their kids, it is going to make the daughter in law being judged at all times. Dont forget, she has been brought up by her family as well.
The article lacks complete story from both sides. It lacks the real world reasoning.
30
Exactly. Some times a daughter in law is treated unfairly or in my situation discriminated against. Really off putting article.
21
Yes, an article like this definitely needs the cultural issues expounded upon more. There’s more to the daughter in laws side.
15
I'm glad for the acknowledgement that this is a phenomenon, but it places 100% of the blame on the daughter in laws. The interviews are entirely of sad grandmothers. Where is the balance? Why weren't any of the moms/daughter in laws interviewed? In our family, MIL has a strong preference for her daughter's children. She picks them up from daycare multiple times per week and is supposed to come to our house for dinner once a week, but she never shows up. She can easily tell her son no, but never her daughter. This article lacks richness.
38
Meh. There is no substance to this article. My first reaction was that there are many models of close healthy relationships. We love both my parents and my inlaws, but neither would ever in a million years be welcome to just drop by (and I'm a daughter, not a son). If they visited without an invitation, that would be a sign they had major boundary issues, and we would instantly have a less close relationship. Did the MIL who moved across the country ever think to discuss her pushy assumptions about seeing her grandkids? I suspect she just moved and then clutched her pearls when her family had different expectations for the family dynamics. This whole article reads like an advice column without much insight, not like an informative reported piece.
25
I have to agree with some parts, but have another view point to add. I am a daughter and my family is very close with my parents. We live about 45 min apart. My sister and her family live about 5 minutes away from my parents. My in laws live about 6 hours away and we are not in contact. From the outside, our situation may fit the theme of this article. However, my in laws (particularly MIL) are very difficult people. They can be controlling and manipulative. I let my husband take the lead with contact with his family. I truly wish things were better with them, but it was almost verbal abuse having to deal with her. Also of note, the are estranged with their other sons and his family. Just wanted to give a different viewpoint.. things are not always what they seem.
16
If my MIL had lived to bond with our daughter I know that would have been awesome! Unfortunately she died 2 months before the birth. I always felt an emptiness as she would have adored her granddaughter. My mother did not care much. She is the only mother I know of that could not be bothered to race to meet her first granddaughter born to her only daughter. She had 3 grandsons. Instead of having a wonderful bio grandmother, my FIL married a woman that caused much division in the family. So my daughter did not have a grandma she could get close to. Over the decades she has been around my mother, but there is not any closeness. My mother has other granddaughters~I have 3 brothers~she did not need mine. Works for me. Not all that close to her anyway.
5
Here is why this is article is so misleading. The research cited first says EITHER mom or dad can effect things.
That means no it’s not the daughter in law who is causing the imbalance it’s the son. That means no it’s not true that you have to lose your son when he gets married. It just depends on the son. What is he willing to do?
“We also emphasize that it is important to consider mothers as well as fathers when explaining matrilineal advantage because either parent can create advantages and disadvantages favoring maternal and paternal grandparents.”
14
This reminds me of how my stepmom, who came into my life when I was already in my thirties, would call and say, "You need to come visit us/your father, or we'll go there to see your family. Let's get it on the calendar."
I was so grateful that even though I'd only been her stepdaughter for a few years, she was helping to manage the kin relationship thing this article talks about.
13
The entire premise of this piece is that it's the DIL's fault. Why is nobody thinking about the son? His family comes necessitating more cooking. Does he do it? Nope. His family comes and there are lessons that need to be taught both ways. He is the literal bridge between the families. Does he facilitate communication? Probably not even once.
What if MIL wanted to come stay for a month, and dad was like, "Honey, my mom wants to come stay, and I know that houseguests are stressful, so I've set her expectations that there will be lots of frozen dinners and sweat pants and breastfeeding maybe even some crying. I've taken some days off of work, I've cleaned the house top to bottom, planned the meals for the month, and I'm going to teach her all about how we do bed time and make sure she's really strict about it like we are so that we can have a few date nights without worrying. Other nights, I'm going to stay in and just catch up with my mom while you go out and have some time with your friends or go upstairs and read a book. It'll still be more hours of being "on" at dinner time all together, and I know you're exhausted from night nursing, but hopefully there'll be breaks for you, too. Do you think that sounds manageable?"
I imagine it would be a VERY different story and that both generations of mothers would have a much nicer time with each other.
111
This is my husband for reasons that are totally his personality (nature not nurture). I still have MIL issues, despite his managing that relationship.
4
This article presumes the relationship responsibility rests on the shoulders of the daughters-in-law. As if grandparents have inalienable rights to their grandchildren and the mothers are just keeping them away. I had a nearly 8 year span between dating and marrying my husband and having my first child, and then five years during which my in laws lived close by and offered no assistance. Including when their own son had cancer. They were difficult during my wedding and filled many conversations with barbs about me over the years. Two grandchildren and two retirements later and their interest in my life has peaked, but their memory about how they forged a relationship with me has dimmed. From my perspective, the responsibility lies firmly on THEIR shoulders and they never rode to the occasion.
26
I think mothers are frequently able to disagree with their own mother and it is no big deal. They know their mother loves them. With a mother-in-law, you are often unsure if you are truly accepted and respected, if you are given the benefit of the doubt. That makes you feel wary and can lead to reacting more than you would otherwise to perhaps innocuous or poorly expressed remarks.
The best thing you can do with any in-law is to get to know them as a person and grow some real warmth between you, no matter how different you may be from each other. Not always easy, and sometimes impossible, but still worth the effort.
30
Well I agree with many of the commenters that this isn't very scientific and likely to drive wedges between the generations. My mother wasn't particularly close to her mother and my mother was the only grandparent my children knew, as the other three were deceased. My children adored my mother and she was wonderful with them and my siblings' children.
In fact my children were always looking for what I call surrogate grandparents - older friends of ours who might be fun to do things with and that created a series of successful relationships. Since my mother didn't live in our town and loved to travel abroad, the children could celebrate Easter with some of our older friends who might not have children around themselves or bring these older neighbors May baskets or go out for ice cream with them after school. Extended families/friends create a depth of relationships for a young child.
I highly recommend surrogate grandparents because it comes without some of the negative emotions found in blood families.
14
The equation is slightly different in Indian and south Asian households. Very often the paternal grandmother tends to exert her authority over the daughter in law using cultural reasons to justify. The maternal grandparent bond however persists because it’s the maternal grandmother that is of assistance helping out the young mother and her infant.
15
Okay I have to say that I feel this grandma is leaving out a lot of information. Like the grandma who moved to SoCal to help with the grand-baby, did she tell the parents of her plans? Or did she just move straight away to them the minute she heard about the grand-baby. Was she demanding, boundary stomping, and undermining the parents? If so it’s undeestandable why the daughter in law and son are like no go away. I’ve seen grandmas (both paternal and maternal) go crazy with baby rabies like setting up their own nusaries for the grand-baby in their own home to grandma showers, to announcing the birth on social media before the parents. I feel the author’s article misses this point because there are several different factors at play then just the daughter-in-law having a better connection with her own mother then her mother-in-law.
34
Did the grandmother who shifted to California to be close to the expected grandchild first consult the parents or work to build a relationship of trust with her DIL? In the article it sounds like she just expected to have a central role without having done any of the prep relationship-building that would give her DIL the knowledge and confidence to turn to her. No virtual stranger is entitled to be trusted with your precious baby just because they share some DNA.
23
This is the crux:
"Her daughter-in-law, whom she didn’t know well before her pregnancy, “did not want me to be close,” she said, and didn’t accept gifts and offers of help."
Why didn't this woman know her daughter-in-law well prior to her pregnancy? Did she think that she could circumvent a relationship with her daughter in law and still have a relationship with her adult son and his children? Why would she think that would work?
The other side to this coin, is the frequent experience of DILs that they get treated by their MILs as a kind of "plus one". I'm painting in broad strokes here, but so does the article. If you asked the DIL above, you almost certainly would hear a context that included a woman who (best case) ignored her for years, or (more likely) criticized, insulted, and competed with her. It has seemed to me for years that this is such a poor strategy. As a daughter, DIL, and the mother of a son of my own, I have watched these weird relationships unfold and known that the grandkids change the power dynamic. In an instant. And if you've spent 5 years distancing yourself from your DIL or not building that relationship, that's going to be a real bummer for you.
I can remember my own grandmother (who had eight daughters and four sons) caution a friend who was making fun of the center pieces at her future DILs wedding, "Don't pick stupid fights over center pieces; one day she will be your access to your grandchildren."
38
I certainly agree that it's important to build a relationship with your DIL or SIL - it's just a kind and healthy thing to do, right from the start. That doesn't mean that it should become a demanding, claustrophobic relationship.
I never really thought about becoming a grandparent, but our first grandchild arrived 12 months after the parents' wedding and BOOM! our life changed! Both my son and daughter (and spouses) moved back to our home town and we now have 4 grandchildren (the oldest is 6) who enjoy each other and play together 1-2 times/week. I think I get along with all the in-laws, in fact we share Thanksgiving and Christmas with our daughter's in-laws. My husband and I have a busy work and volunteer life, but I do care for the grandchildren a few days a week. I think the young mothers would all like us to do more childcare, but we need time for ourselves too. The grandchildren are great fun, all very different, and we enjoy doing a myriad of activities with them. I care about both my daughter and DIL and spend quite a bit of time listening. I take my cues from them but we trust each other to do the right thing. Some of the relationships described in the comments make me sad, but I hope the generations involved will keep working on their relationships. Trust is built over time and love can grow.
13
When my husband and I first got serious enough to discuss engagement, I sent his mom a mother's day card, thanking her for raising a young man that I was honored and blessed enough to share my life and home with, and pointing out that he would not be the man I loved had it not been for her and her husband and their guidance. It has been 24 years and I still hear about that card.
Ironically, my husband's a liberal agnostic, whereas my in-laws are staunch religious conservatives. Yet my message to his mom is still true--even if he saw his parents as foils, he used what he learned from his upbringing to develop and shape his morals, his character, and his beliefs, things that made me fall in love with him and want to raise a family together.
20
This narrative, when believed, becomes a destructive self-fulfilled prophecy; and this article is perpetuating it. My mother-in-law has three sons. Throughout their childhood, she was told “daughters are daughters forever; sons are sons until they get married.” So long before I, or my sister-in-laws, arrived on the scene, she was terrified of losing her boys. I always imagined I’d have a close, loving relationship with my future mother-in-law, but that’s hard to do with someone who is resistant to the idea of another woman taking their place. (It has certainly created plenty of issues across this one family.) I agree with the other comments that this article feels very one-sided; it is perpetuating stereotypes about daughters-in-laws without any inclusion of their perspective.
28
My SIL refused all offers from my parents. Her mom was a daily presence. Asked my brother about it and he said, “it’s her was her way or scorched earth”. They ultimately divorced and her own son hates her. For this, and myriad other reasons. Keep you ncluding your MIL with a smile. Your husband will be grateful.
3
Because of various family dynamics and distance, in my case and that of my siblings, were were closer to our paternal grandmother. This is also true for my sister's daughter. Distance only accounted for 25 percent. We wished it could have been more balanced.
2
Fascinating article! Thanks for this very interesting take on parenting/grandparenting.
1
This is a constant topic of conversation among my friends and me. (We are the daughters- in-law). I would love to see an in depth interview of the daughters in law. You would surely get some interesting and outrageous stories. Neither side is 100% innocent. I have a son and a daughter and must admit I already worry about who my son will marry! (And he is only 1...)
14
I experienced this same thing with my brother and his kids. It was my sister in law’s family, front and center all the time. Our side was very excluded. They were asked to be godparents, they were included for birthday parties, (we were told about the parties after the fact), and holidays were strictly with her family, and of course her parents were THE grandparents, and her sister was THE aunt. My brother went along to keep the peace. They eventually divorced, so I guess it wasn’t worth keeping his mouth shut.
19
Thanks for continuing the stereotype that daughter's-in-law are the real problem here, that we're controlling and manipulative and your precious sons are too afraid to stand up for themselves.
47
I have not yet read everything in the article or the comments, but having just finished a "shift" of three of my 10 grandchildren I thought I might weigh in. Proximity (15 min drive) is the main factor I can help out with these particular 3, my son's daughters. Communication is mostly around child care arrangements. To get in deeper, "the honesty is too much". There have been misunderstandings and I looked at myself and thought "mother in law from hell". I then looked up this phrase and found an advice columnist who said "Never under any circumstances should you say anything negative to your daughter in law!" This is hard for a blunt, Dutch woman who speaks her mind, but, at 70, I see the wisdom of it. I believe our ongoing involvement in the lives of our grandchildren, in one family limited to visiting on birthdays, so about 4 times a year. Another family has settled in Mexico City, we see them twice a year and facetime. A daughter drops off two preschoolers once a week. We are still "in business". Some of the children face "issues". These the parents don't want to discuss with us: " We're in our 40s! Don't you think we can work this out." So in summary, it is not gender determining the relationship. Like marriage itself, it appears to be an ever changing scene. The most helpful thing is what our parents did for my husband and me, they did not give up on life, they stayed the course and the bottom line that is an example to follow.
5
I am a daughter-in-law with two young boys. I have to say this article does not match what I have experienced. My mother-in-law and father-in-law live about 45 minutes away and see my boys and her son and me every week or so. We are very different personalities (She is quiet and shy, I am talkative and outgoing) but have similar moral codes and get along quite well. She is a retired teacher and gets along famously with the kids. In fact, she is coming up next week to help me organize closets, and we are celebrating Easter with them Sunday.
My parents (who are great) live about 5 hours away and see the grandkids every 2 - 3 months, mostly just due to distance. But, they see my brother's daughter more than the maternal grandmother. In fact, it was my mom who stayed at my brother's house for 2 weeks helping cook, clean, etc with the new baby. My son's wife called my mom at midnight asking for help after the baby was home and my mom was there the next morning.
Also, my best friend has a great relationship with her MIL - they just did a paint night together and she babysits her granddaughters once a week.
One thing that both sets of parents do well (also my friend's parents) is not try to tell us how to live our lives or have any ulterior motives except being supportive and loving. I think this goes a LONG way in loving relationships.
Articles like this just make moms of boys feel bad when I think the truth is that each family is totally different.
29
I feel so lucky.
I have 2 great DILs. My sons and DILs make sure we see the kids as often as we can as we are still working and taking care of an elderly parent. In fact the DILS make sure the great grammy sees them often also.
I loved my in-laws but I had my husband have talks about smoking and racist language. There was to be no smoking when we visited or they visited us and there were to be no language that would offend anyone. I am glad to say they abided by it and I only wished they had lived longer to see what great kids we had. We miss them. My husband once admitted to me he loved my mom more than his own- aren't I the lucky one!
7
I’m
Super lucky
Please meet my daughter-in-law Tami who emails and texts me requests to
1. Pick up Rose from pre school and please stay and make dinner for the family of 5 till she gets home at 9. (She knows I live these requests)
2. Pick up Samuel or Ivy
3. Make dinner any night? Every night?
4. Go to lunch or shop
5. Help organize closets
6. Has great smart discussions with me
7. Goes on marches and rallies with me and alerts me to all important movements
7. Is delighted to have me around anytime
8. Actually speak more to her than to my son.
9. Why are those daughter in laws in the article so mean?
12
This article was very magnetic to me as a 70 year old MIL who has lived
almost her entire life 20 miles or less outside of New York City! I do believe that
that unless a couple has a very high income childcare in 2018 is at the top of
the list right under "rent" or"mortgage" in terms of importance--at least it is for
my younger son and his wife who are highly educated working professionals. If you live in this part of the U.S. life is expensive with a capital "E";Luckily my
DIL's Mom takes care of their 22 month old son two days a week and I take
care of him the other two days with his Dad caring for him one day while he works from home. It is NOT about being a Maternal grandmother in 2018 it
is about being a caring grandmother no matter who your child is and making
a sacrifice in time and money so that maybe my grandson's Mom and Dad
might have a easier retirement when very possibly there will be no medicare
for them.
10
This is just one mom's perspective. I have kept all of them away from our children so that we could have the chance to bring up our children without their judgement and toxic influence. Its been hard, but worth it. I do see them periodically, but not for long visits. I am extremely protective and just wanted a chance to parent on a way that was vastly different than I had had without having to deal with them. They had their chance with me when I was younger, made their choices and this is the result of past experiences. I will not tolerate what was done to me, happening to my children, nor will I tolerate their judgement and continued lack of regard for my decisions. I am not a perfect parent and would have benefited from loving, non judgemental support, but in the absence of it, I chose to stay as far away from what was presented so that I could save my sanity and protect my children.
17
I wasn't a particular warm and loving mother, as I was wrapped up in pursuing a demanding scientific career. I had one daughter, one son and one divorce with a very messy custody suit. My own parents had been divorced, and I was closer to my mom than my father, but not nearly as close as my husband and his mother, who became the grandmother of choice. My own daughter never married and surrounds herself with dogs and cats. My son married a good woman, and her mother died in a diabetic coma when my first granddaughter was 3 weeks old...so she and her younger sister never knew that grandmother. I did a lot of traveling with my older granddaughter, who is now 20 and involved in college and social life, but the younger one, almost 13, said she would never go anywhere with me again after I took her to NYC at age 9. Even though we now live in the same city, if I'm lucky I see them twice a year. After my second husband died, I no longer saw his grandchildren either....and I thought we were all relatively close. Fortunately I have found good friends in retirement and built up a life of my own. I wish it were different, and I realize it is mostly my fault, but sometimes I do wish I knew them better.
8
I love this article!! It is written by the dead about the dead - not the living - so pay attention future DILs!!!!! You are marrying him AND his family. You hate that they are so cold and distant? You hate how they don't cook? You hate how they treat each other? Guess what? They are not going to change for you! Cultural differences? Opposing religious beliefs? So fun!!! If you can't deal with it now, imagine how great it is later!!! After the baby, the dog, the mortgage, the chronic debilitating illness. You get me. So see something, say something. Beware DILs - choose very, very carefully. Very. Carefully.
12
I don't mean dead as in old - but dead as in too late!!! Too late to reverse course.
1
We (DILs) don't hate it that they are cold and distant. We think it is strange that they are cold and distant for years and then they are surprised when that cold distance results in limited access to grandchildren.
For every sentence you've written above, I could respond with the other side - For as much as I am marrying my husband's family, we are also establishing our own. Defining it, growing it, protecting it. We need support, but we also need space to build intimacy. We need our big family, but we also need boundaries to allow for us to be "us." We need history and an understanding of our past, but we need respect for how we decide to continue that legacy and develop a future. We need advice, but let's be honest, there are a lot of turf-wars and just petty criticisms masquerading as "advice." Why do you care what color I paint my kitchen? Why do you care if I decide not to have carpet in the living room? My aunt had her MIL come over while she was at work and wallpaper a border around the chair rail in the hall. Advice? Support? That's the MIL equivalent of peeing around a tree to mark her territory.
I certainly don't want to create a relationship with my DIL that is likely to limit my relationship with my son and grandchildren. So, ya know, I'm like not going to start that relationship off by telling my DIL that the engagement party *her* parents threw is a silly way to spend money. The MIL DIL relationship is often a death of a thousand cuts.
21
Ok. My 3rd and last post .
What about communication? Why can’t a DIL say how she feels and what she needs ? Same with MIL ?
After all they’re ( we’re ) just 2 people who share family .
Is it not possible to dialogue and work together ?
6
Oh Beth, what a cock-eyed optimist you are. I am the MIL who walks on eggshells and in a good year I get to see my grandchildren 3-4 times a year (they live 20 minutes away from me). I would love to communicate. But in order to communicate, your DIL has to answer the phone when you call, reply to your emails, and reply to your texts. You can tell her that you love her and are glad that she is part of your family, but you cannot make her reply back. And whatever I say or do is wrong. Even if I religiously contact her the same amount of times per month I am alternately told I contact her too much, or I don't contact her enough. I have been set up to fail. Whatever I do is wrong. There is no winning and there is no communicating. I have apologized for things that I have never done just to keep the peace and hopeful get to see my grandbabies more that 3 times a year. If you have a suggestion on how to make this work I am all ears. But communication must be two ways otherwise you are just talking to the wall.
21
This sounds very painful and frustrating.
I am wondering why you don’t contact your son to arrange visits? Or why he doesn’t coordinate?
21
I’m so sorry . Yes , communication is a two way street and unfortunately we cannot change the other person .
Have you ever out right asked if you have offended her or what you can do to improve situation ?
There are some people so toxic or power trippy that they simply revel in causing others pain .
I actually have one “ easy “ DIL and one very difficult who has no interest in relationship with me but does want me to babysit a lot . So I do that .
I grieve that we don’t have a relationship but I am thrilled to see my grandsons regularly.
It’s taken a toll on me and cost me many therapy hours .
I get the eggshells thing . There have been times in the beginning that my son was conduit for visits with kids .
Again -I’m sorry . Perhaps your son can help facilitate visits ? Even to go to park or out for ice cream ?
Can you volunteer at kids school ? ( that’s one way I saw kids ).
3
The old saying, “a daughters a daughter all her life; a son, a so until he takes a wife”, runs pretty true.
Remembering how my mother in law ignored me, I’ve tried to include my daughter in law in phone calls and emails and text messages. And basically never criticize even if it kills you not to say something. Chose your words carefully.
11
Sadly, in many ways I'm now closer to my MIL than to my own mother -- whose manipulative narcissism have made it virtually impossible to enjoy the bond we had my entire life before she went through menopause -- and my son is probably more comfortable with Daddy's mom than with Mommy's mom, thanks to whatever undercurrents he's picking up... But as long as there are people who love him, whose love he feels, everything's good.
Lots of good things to unpick in this article, and perhaps inspiration to find more constructive ways to deal with my mom's thoughtlessness and cruelty, in the few years we have left with her.
6
I really do love my MIL. I remember when I was dating my now husband, she was so kind. I lived out of state for college, away from my family, and she so graciously treated me like her own kin. However, once I married her son things changed. I remember our first Christmas together with his family. I was asked to babysit the kids upstairs so my MIL and her adult children could eat an uninterrupted Christmas dinner together. In that moment I realized she didn’t really considered me part of her family. Probably a dramatic reaction, but when you’re also asked to take the family pictures and not included in them, it’s easy to let these conspiracy theories take root. This sounds like she must not enjoy my company, but I think she just knows I’m “nice” enough to oblige her requests. I think her main goal at the moment is to keep her family together, and sometimes that means she will drop unecessary cargo (daughter-in-laws) to get where she wants to go. Not a great long term strategy, as it does make me reluctant to visit.
14
Alex L, my first MIL was just like that! I was the one who took family pictures at holiday dinners. As a result, I started not volunteering to do the dishes and clean up but stay and converse with the men. I guess it is no surprise that my first husband (I married when I was barely 21) and I eventually split--but he got the kids every holiday because he had the large family! I remarried when I was 43, but my second MIL, married to her second husband, didn't do family anythings but was something of a recluse. Now that I am old, I wonder why any of us had children!
1
My DIL is married to her family. Her mom supports 2 adult sons, cares for the grandkids. They all congregate daily at her house. She’s very sweet but has enabled her 2 sons to be unable to function as adults. She hands over anything they want without ever having to earn anything. One granddaughter threatened suicide because she couldn’t go to a dance (the dr read her the riot act) nothing changed.
She has every holiday. No debate. Halloween, Thanksgiving, Xmas Eve, Xmas New Years Eve, New Years Day, Easter, Mothers Day, Fourth of July and all birthdays. I do Xmas at my house on the 23 so there’s quality time rather than rushing back to DILs mom. I see my grandkids about once a month.
I’m very close to my grandkids but as I work running a company and have severe health problems I can’t do the things I want to. They all go on vacation together Disneyland, Vegas etc. I’ve never been invited ever. On the rare occasion I plan shopping with my DIL she invites her mom. She’s canceled 90% of plans/10 years.
I’ve learned to live with being excluded and that my role is to instill different world views: being social (outside the clan) eating healthy (not drinking to oblivion or eating hideous diet) working hard, learning to be ambitious, strong work ethic, sense of pride in accomplishment. It’s not bitterness it’s a battle against the crippling enabling I’ve seen the other grandma ruin the lives of 3 of her children and working on the same to her grandkids. My son agrees.
6
I hope that my daughter-in-law reads these comments, maybe I'll send her a copy of mine "Ellie, thank you for supporting my relationship with my grandsons and son 100%" I guess I am in the minority and very fortunate.
13
My mother in law used to put a quart of ice cream in her car before she came over to see the baby. "Gotta go," she'd say after about 3 minutes, "I have ice cream in the car."
6
This is something of an American problem. Mothers of sons are if possible CLOSER to their children in Italy than those with daughters with the attendant issues which are the subject of snarky remarks and jokes as well as serious if not marriage ending problems. Grandmothers do a huge portion of the babysitting as they have for centuries regardless of maternal or paternal links and child care is hard to find and costly.
7
As one of four girls I totally agree with this article! My sisters and I compare notes on our MILs all the time and the similarities are eerie. We all married men who only had brothers. There is an interesting dynamic that develops between a mother and her son. A little bit of it is that nothing is good enough for her son and a little bit of it is that she does not ever have to do menial tasks. Her title as a woman who raised son(s) surpasses that of a mere guest in the house. All of our MILs assume they should stay in our homes rather than a hotel and none offer to cook or clean once there. They want to spend time with the grandchildren under their conditions.
In contrast our mother was present at all of the grandchildrens births and helped our recoveries by cleaning our homes and cooking while caring for our newborns. My mother moved out of our guest room when my MIL refused to stay at a hotel so as not to upset me and keep peace in my marriage because she knew how fragile I was 2 weeks postpartum. She quietly checked in to a hotel nearby and arrived each morning to help out until my MIL left.
21
If that's your experience I am sorry. But it's not always the case.
3
Unfortunately, I DO NOT get to see my grandchildren. My daughter in law stopped speaking to me when she became pregnant and it went downhill from there. I haven't even met my second grandchild. Such a tragedy.
9
so sorry. I agree. Tragic
Maybe you treated her like a heffer who delivered your progeny and she didn’t like it. Good for her! In the hospital my mother in law took a picture of the baby and her four sons and was shocked when I suggested she include me as well. Not that the youngest is a toddler, she has taken a picture of my diary yet in my arms but cut me out of the frame as she took the picture and included the dirty table to the right. Allegedly they adore me but I feel like a heffer to them! Think about the ways you have treated her explicitly and implicitly!
5
What all these disparate and conflicting comments add up to is that different people are different. (Duh)
9
I already wrote a post but feel compelled to address the whole kinship thing.
I have 2 sons . They both send me photos , videos , fun anecdotes and keep me updated in general .
One lives in same town , the other overseas.
My son here recently told me he missed me. I babysit his sons several times a week but rarely see him for coffee or lunch anymore thinking he’s too busy to hang out with his mom.
Realize my surprise when he put on faux Jewish mother voice and said “ You’re 10 minutes away and never call. Don’t you love me anymore ?”
We both laughed and real Jewish mother that I am responded with an “ Oy, of course!” then we made plans for coffee ( and I made extras of a yummy dish to share with him and family ).
I’ve also
been touched by the gifts my son has given me that one might attribute more to a daughter.
He put together a lovely book of photos of his sons from birth onward for me on Chanukah.
They send me cards or flowers on my birthday and initiate contact for holidays .
Maybe I’m lucky -I was tail end of the hippie generation . Bought dolls for my sons along with matchbox cars, did not subscribe to rigid gender roles.
They were loving and affectionate -so sharing their children with me comes naturally.
They’d never relegate the kinship activities to their wives no more than abdicating the caring for their children or preparing meals.
It depends on how you raise your sons .
24
Just what women need. Women — who do 16 more hours of housework than men per week, also juggling paid work, elder care and kids — are now responsible for making sure their husband’s parents see the kids. How about holding the husbands responsible for HIS parents and HIS kids?
87
Nonsense. Women are high stressed when it comes to this stuff. Men much more laid back.
Happy wife, happy life.
2
Men are laid back on this stuff if the definition of laid back is not doing the stuff.
46
Why is all the blame on the daughter-in-law? I asked my husband's mother multiple times for help with babysitting before I finally gave up. She was already occupied babysitting for her daughter, cooking for her daughter, house cleaning for her daughter, taking her daughter's children to the doctor and on field trips, etc. This left no time or energy for my child. The relationship of the mother- in -law to her own daughter is a factor here.
25
As a daughter-in-law, I've dealt with my share of unexpected conflict from my husband's mother- often based upon simple differences such as dialect and communication style (I'm from the northeast, she's a lifelong Texan), food preferences, my shared interests with her son- you name it, I've seen it. My mother and I have our differences, but the bond forged in childhood, for better or worse, helps to smooth out conflict resolution. Factor in children, and I'm even more self-protective regarding tension with my mother-in-law- I don't need it, and my children don't, either. Happily, my husband understands my position. I get the sense that many women in this position keep a healthy distance for similar reasons.
18
I babysit my son and daughter-in-law's son all the time. And the biggest requester for sitting is my daughter-in-law. Guess I just got lucky with the best daughter-in-law a mother-in-law could have.
8
A daughter is a daughter for her entire life.
A son is a son until he takes a wife.
12
Women are still doing 90% of the emotional labor in any given family. It is past time for men to step up.
28
What's the evidence for this sexist statement?
1
I can't believe how one-sided this is. How could you not look at the perspective of the daughter-in-law? It is the mother-in-law's job to make the daughter-in-law feel welcomed into the family she married into. Do whatever it takes to forget a relationship with the most important person in your son's life. And if you want to be part of your grandchildren's lives, get to know her as well as you can before her pregnancy. Look in the mirror if you don't see your grandchildren as much as you would like.
32
A week before I went back to work, I dropped my infant son off at daycare for a trial day...and was completely inconsolable. While day care is the right choice for many families, the strict rules at our center - especially around sleeping - went completely counter to what we had worked so hard to achieve with our son. Hysterical, I called my husband, no answer. I called my mom, no answer. I called my MIL - and she picked up (they had just moved to the area - partly to be closer to our new baby). Within a week, we had hammered out a new child care arrangement. She cared for him full time for the first six months of his life, and has continued to provide part time care until now (2 years old). To say I am lucky is the understatement of the century: she respects my opinions (even though she raised three wonderful children, including the man I wanted to marry!), never takes sides between my husband and me, even though she sees us up close and personal, including on our "off" days, always tells me what she and my son are planning to do that day, and most importantly, loves my son as deeply and fully as I do. I could not imagine parenting without her love, support, and commitment to the success of our growing family - she is a true partner in every sense of the word. My son is a very lucky little boy - two sets of loving grandparents who are an integral part of his life.
52
This is amazing. It’s possible for everyone to bond and respect one another, and I’m so happy for all of you!
2
The timing of this piece was perfect. I was visiting my step son, daughter-in-law and 6 week old grand daughter. I tried to remember that 1) it is not about me; and 2) it is hard for stressed parents to raise a happy or productive child. My job, when I visit, is to behave in ways that minimize the stress that having a visitor inevitably brings. I am completely smitten with my grand daughter, and I sincerely believe that her parents are doing a phenomenal job. I take over the mundane chores to the best of my ability (dish washing, grocery shopping, food preparation, etc.), so that the parents can focus on the child. My step son and daughter-in-law graciously invited me to assist in burping, diaper changing, bathing. But, even though I would not have made all the same lifestyle choices these adults have made, I know that I need them in my life more than they need me. I feel that my time to have influenced the values and choices of these parents was when I was parenting the father. I am satisfied that I did the best I could, then. Grandparents in fractious relationships with their children and children's spouses need to consciously assess what they really want in the long run and behave in ways to reach the long term goals. My long term goal for my grand daughter is that she has the opportunity to pursue her interests and have a happy life. Anything else is trivial and it is my responsibility to behave in ways to help the parents achieve that goal.
48
I agree with so many comments regarding you reap what you sow, and regarding why the article focuses on the daughter-in-law rather than any expectations of the son. My ex-mother-in-law is often a lovely woman. However, she was quite set in her ways and it seemed nothing is good enough for for her son, including me. She expected to set the terms for spending time with our children, including when/how long the in-laws would visit, whether I should be able to spend time with my own children when I came home from work if they were visiting, and how we should decorate our home. At the same time, I appreciated her efforts to help out/babysit and my children loved spending time with her. I think we both worked at it and my now-grown sons have a good relationship with her. I'm hopeful if I'm lucky enough to have grandchildren that I will be more respectful of their mother's wishes.
8
When I convinced my parents to build an extension and come live with us, I received nothing but negative vibes from all our friends. Odd, but we went through with the plans. My parents arrived and soon afterwards our son was born. Having grandparents with us helped especially since our son was diagnosed with autism (Asperger's) by 3 1/2 years. Soon after that my parents health went into decline and we all (son included) discovered how to nurture and supported both grandparents.
Family dynamics are complicated, but we were offered a challenging opportunity that worked. In the end, my son learned the value of helping others and hopefully he will remember that lesson in future when he possibly might let us build an addition on to his home where he and his son could take care of his mom and dad.
11
Problem complicated by cell phone communication. When adult child and their parent communicate only by cell phone, the in-law is left out of the loop, making relationships more difficult to develop for planning grandchild and grandparent events!
1
Because it's impossible to hand the phone over to the other parent?
4
Interesting that this is put in terms of women's choices and responsibilities, and not men's. Let's rewrite a few paragraphs and see how the message changes:
You hear this often: Paternal grandparents tread very carefully, mindful that a son might not appreciate their overtures or their frequent presence, anxious that he could limit access to their grandkids.
...
But researchers exploring family affiliations point out that a so-called “patrilineal disadvantage” does exist. That is, sons generally have looser ties to their own parents than their wives do to *their* parents, which leads to cooler relationships between their children and the paternal grandparents.
“The father-son dyads engage in less frequent phone contact, less emotional support and advice — less than mothers do with sons or fathers with daughters,” said Karen Fingerman, who teaches human development and family sciences at the University of Texas, Austin, and has published studies on this topic.
One possible explanation is that men still shoulder less of what researchers call “kinkeeping” — arranging for calls and visits, sharing family news, planning holiday gatherings.
“Men are less active in maintaining those relationships,” said Jan Mutchler, a sociologist and gerontologist at the University of Massachusetts, Boston. “When you have fathers and sons, then you have two men, so the effect is compounded.”
89
An excellent way to reframe this story.
6
Yes, a thousand times! If only my MIL knew how I begged her son (my husband) to call her, on a regular basis. Men are just wired differently. He assumes she is fine because he doesn't hear from her. I tell him--you need to check up on her! You need to show her that you care enough to inquire about her daily life!
My MIL is a lovely woman, with an active social and community life, she is hardly needy, but I am sure she would like to hear from her son on a more regular basis. Luckily, she has two daughters, who are quite attentive.
My own mother has 3 daughters, and for all our faults, we will make sure she and my father are taken care of. I have only one daughter, and I can see already that as her father and I age, she will be taking the lead from her brothers. Such is life.
16
I wonder how much of this is a result of moms doing the bulk of the childcare and scheduling for the family. When husbands work long hours or travel for work and are rarely or never the ones who stay home with a sick kid or on a school holiday, then it leaves moms in a situation of needing someone to rely on for help from time to time. I think it's natural that moms might find it more comfortable going to their own parents for help in these situations than going to their in-laws, especially since these things often come up last minute and in already chaotic times when the house is likely to be messy, kids are likely to be eating cereal for dinner, etc. Perhaps paternal grandparents wanting more time with their grandkids should encourage their sons to take more equal responsibility for childcare; I'd imagine that if my husband ever took responsibility for handling a childcare crisis, he'd be more likely to call up his family than mine.
23
Would love to read an article exploring preference for her daughter's children. My MIL visits her daughter's children almost daily. My husband (her son and only other child) and I live equidistant, and have the same amount of children (same ages and genders!) and we need to beg for a visit. I wish my MIL was more involved. Does she just feel closer to her daughter's children because she is more comfortable around her daughter? Is it biology?
18
My own mother has told me she feels closer to my son than to my brother's children -- and she sees my son twice a year (across the country) but sees my niece and nephew more often. There are always mitigating circumstances, but I do think the female line makes a difference.
4
Not sure what cultural studies the author of this article is reflecting in her broad generalizations but I can say this ain’t true for Italian families nor especially Italian American families.
As Alexandre Dumas said “All generalizations are dangerous”. Articles in the NYT that make broad cultural generalizations just appear awkward and seem to have a limited use or are particularly provincial in perspective.
14
To whit, it seems like a particularly WASPy phenomenon. Coming from a mixed Northeastern Catholic background (Italian, Portuguese, and French Canadian) a lot of these generalizations and comments seem to be coming, culturally, from another planet.
6
What is your objection specifically?
1
This is the second comment I,ve read here about Italian or Italian American families not suffering the same stigma about maternal/paternal grandparents. I am an Italian American mother of a grown son and daughter. I thought the same think as I read this article. Culturally, I feel Italians embrace the large extended family unit. Love ❤️ and lots of food for all! It goes a long way to smooth over differences.
1
old Yiddish proverb: "a son's a son till he takes a wife, but a daughter's a daughter for all of her life'
6
It's an Irish saying.
4
@Sweetbetsy
Thought it was from the Mid-West
1
As many others have posed the perspective of the DIL is clearly missing in this piece. My paternal grandmother has disliked my mother from the start and is not afraid to show this. My PGM has always shown disdain for my mother, never realizing that if it were up to my father, her son, we would never speak or see her. Despite her attitude and demeanor it was my mother that kept the channel of communication open. Over the years my brothers and I realized what was happening and turned away from our PGM.
A few years ago I sat next to a crying aunt; my PGM had picked up her kids from school without telling her and my aunt had been in a panic as her children were suddenly gone from school! My PGM waved it all away, she was not to blame - she had her rights. All suffering in the family is her suffering and woe on anyone who doesn't bow to her wishes. I don't care for my grandmother, and I do not regret our lack of bonds. Better to have no bonds beyond my direct family, my parents and siblings, than to keep a snake like her close by. If you think you don't have a good connection to your grandchildren due to your DIL you should consider looking at how you treat your DIL first.
33
Why is it on the women/wives to maintain a relationship with their HUSBAND'S mother, and not on the husband? My MIL died before we had children, but my friends who keep a distance from their MILs have MILs who are doing things like secretly trying to baptize the child in a faith other than the one the parents want. Perhaps both sides should have been represented here? I'm sure there are people at fault on both sides, like any other relationship.
28
Perhaps if the mother in laws were as interested in getting to know their daughter in laws before the grandchildren arrived, the bond between them would facilitate the DIL being more open to having her MIL more involved with the grandchildren. From personal experience my MIL had no interest in being around me until the baby was born. Also, my MIL did not have a close relationship with her son either until the baby was born and then she expected to be around all the time.
Don’t blame the daughter in laws for the lack of bonding and lack of time with the grandkids.
43
I am a twenty something year old grandchild and I can attest to my friends and I typically being closer to our maternal grandparents. As I've gotten older I've tried to balance it out. My mother never prevented me from seeing them, it just seemed that my family relied more on my maternal grandparents as my mother relied so heavily on her mother growing up, whereas my father left home at such a young age and was always very independent. As an adult I think I've now successfully bridged the gap forged by geography as well as time spent apart. Now that I'm aware of the work required to even the "score", I will try to go out of my way to prevent it from happening again. This article was such an interesting read and hopefully other can learn from it.
14
This is a very interesting article. And it makes me feel fortunate. I have two married sons and one married daughter. All have children. My DILs and my SIL are fabulous people. I have welcomed access to my grandchildren, see them frequently— although two families live out of state. My youngest son and his family live close by and I have grandkids twice a week after school. I am not sure why my experience is different than many reported in this article. However, two thoughts come to mind. I always ask them to let me know what is best for them—I take nothing for granted and follow their advice. I communicate with both parents. And I do my best to come through at special times when there is a minor crisis.
Having said that—while my sons and DILs confide in me, I do talk to my daughter more—at least twice a week for up to an hour.
I am divorced. Yet every year we have many family(without ex) get togethers—and have a blast. I always respect that each family has other responsibilities with DILs family and with their Dad Lucky for me that we still work out times together. I think the crucial message is listen, be helpful and then have fun.
20
You answered your own question about why your experience is different: you communicate, take nothing for granted, and follow their advice. It sounds like you respect your children and have thus earned respect in return. I'm happy for you all!
The MIL in the story who moved across the country to babysit for a DIL who she didn't know well: how much communicating did she do before making the commitment to move? If I had been that mother with a new baby, I would have found it incredibly presumptuous of my MIL for her to up and move in the assumption that she would be babysitter, especially if we didn't even have a good relationship. It's difficult to earn respect from a DIL if you don't even bother to establish a good relationship with her and just see her as the Birther of Grandchildren.
25
I agree every family's situation is completely different and there is much more here to explore, but this pattern has held true in multiple generations of my family. I was the oldest grandchild born, followed by my brother, before my dad's sister had her first child - yet when my cousin was born, my paternal grandmother commented to my mother that she was so excited, "it's just so much different when it's your own daughter." Needless to say this created a rift between them for years to come. In my own family, my mother is much more comfortable and willing to offer her help or plan fun weekends with my son. My MIL will not offer any help unless we ask, yet she babysits for my niece every week. When she does come over, I have to host and listen to passive aggressive comments about the cleanliness of my house. It's improved since my son was born, but still a wide gap in the two relationships.
9
I have the same situation with my MIL. No offers to help, but I watch her bend over backwards for her daughters' children - begging them to let her spend the night, telling them to go out for a day alone on the weekend while she babysits, not to mention weekends and vacations away. When my husband leaves town and I am alone with the kids, he asks his parents to call to check to see "if I'm okay," yet still no offers to watch the kids to give me a break. I'd like to think that she's just going overboard in respecting my "territory," but I'm not territorial or controlling in any way, nor have I ever verbalized any issues with them or how they do things at all. Her lack of initiative makes me think she really doesn't care to do for us what she does for her daughters, and therefore I only ask when absolutely necessary. My children feel the "playing favorites" vibe as well, though I would never talk about it to them and don't even bring it up much with husband, if ever. It's just a reality I've accepted over the years.
11
Our child's paternal grandparents are geographically much closer to us than my parents, but my parents showed much more interest in our child. We would have been delighted with greater involvement from my husband's parents. It would rankle less now that my husband and I are primarily responsible for his parents' care (both have dementia).
5
My husbands mother is the least maternal person I've ever encountered and lives about a half mile away from us. My parents live out of state, one in the Midwest and one in the Southwest, they see and engage with my daughter 100% more than my MIL. We've asked and invited her to engage more but the excuses just multiply - I ache, I have a meeting, I have a dr. appointment, the list goes on and on. For a while it was frustrating but now it's just a joke. My husband fully understands and accepts that his mother just doesn't want to be a part of our lives unless it's when she wants to be.
7
This article seems culturally skewed. Doesn't apply in much of Asia, where sons are encouraged to maintain close relations with their parents, even after getting married and having kids.
7
Great article. To quote Maya Angelou, “I’ve learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.” In other words, perception is what matters—if a daughter in law or mother in law feels hurt or neglected, even if the action or words are unintentional, then that is what matters. People want to be both known and loved by their families in order to feel safe and form bonds. It takes a lot of effort and logistical time and planning from both sides to make this happen.
14
My MIL (and her son, my husband) showed an astounding lack of regard for my boundaries when my first child was an infant. I made it very clear that I wanted the first week or two with our newborn child immediately after the birth as a nuclear family. Instead I had the distinct pleasure on my child’s first day my.. of learning how to breastfeed in front of the MIL while my husband napped at home(he was exhausted having been up the night before.. as was I!!) And it only got worse. My husband at the time was traveling 80-90% of the time and my MIL came to visit for (2-4 weeks at a time 4-5 times that first year) while he was away. She was happy to hold the baby. But I had to entertain, feed, host her while running the household. She would ask to extend her stay and I would politely suggest that I was eager for time with the baby..to which she would escalate to my husband, “she’s my mom.. she is welcome here any time”. The damage to my marriage had been lasting and irreparable. No person has the right to impose upon any DIL or child without their consent.
66
Your husband is definitely the problem -- for not respecting you and standing up for your wishes. That is not a good dynamic at all, and you have my sympathy. Can't even imagine dealing with a month-long visit! I hope things are better now that your child is older.
13
Why did this interviewer not talk with sons and their wives? Why did the interviewer not consider that, perhaps, if parents did a better job of raising sons to be compassionate and caring people who remember birthdays, host dinner gatherings, buy gifts without prompting, they (the parents of sons) might have better adult relationships with their sons and daughters-in-law? When I started dating my now-husband I said, “I don’t like the way my mom is in charge of taking care of all the birthdays and events for her side of the family and my dad’s. It’s not fair. I will take care of my side of the family and you can take care of yours.” He agreed it was unfair. Does he do a good job of it? No, but it’s not my fault. (Although I’m sure his side blames me, not him). I’m raising my son to be different (I hope).
45
It also occurs to me that parents could do a better job of raising their sons to be functional adults. Too many women baby their sons straight up into adulthood, doing their laundry for them, cleaning their houses, cooking them meals, etc. They then expect their sons' wives to pick up the slack after they have left their sons with no adult life skills, which can lead to strife when their sons marry women who have no intention of parenting their husbands (and when sons don't desire to be parented by their wives). I remember my MIL calling me on the phone when my daughter was a few weeks old, absolutely horrified that her precious baby son was at a restaurant eating a SANDWICH for dinner because I was too exhausted to cook (my husband, for the record, was perfectly happy to have the sandwich and didn't share his mom's expectations at all). I can't imagine my parents getting annoyed with my husband over something like this; they raised me to know how to take care of myself as an adult. I think those expectations spill over into how they grandparent, too. My parents trust that my husband and I are the experts on our kids, and if we say the baby can't eat honey or the toddler needs a nap or whatever, they accept that we know best (i.e., they treat us like adults). Meanwhile, my in-laws seem to feel that they are the experts and often disregard what we say (i.e., they treat us like we are children). It leads to a lot of strain.
18
My MIL is a wonderful grandparent. Her focus, however, is my SIL's kids. My husband (her son) and I don't have any. She is kind to me but not very interested in me. She is also not very interested in her daughter's husband.
During her thrice annual visits I spend most of our visiting time asking questions about her childhood and so forth. She tells amazing stories that surprise even my husband and her daughter (my SIL). She doesn't ask about me or my family - even when my own mother died suddenly and whom she had met on several occasions.
Perhaps if I had children she would care more about getting to know me. After ten years, I doubt it. She likes to talk about herself and her family/childhood. She has even seemed annoyed when I try to share stories or bring up my own life. My husband noticed that she never reaches out to me and has tried to make our family conversations more balanced but it always goes back to her.
Social skills don't happen to people because the get older. MIL status does not mean you become socially adept. Although some letter writers see it differently - grandparents are not entitled to anything. My MIL is a loving grandparent and it's her own kids and her grandkids she cares about. However, I don't consider her a loving person. I'm grateful she is good to my husband. He is the one beginning to set boundaries up now as she has only thought of her own needs in our relationship.
40
This is very much my relationship with my MIL. I have known her for over 20 years—my husband and I are high school sweethearts—and I think it would be a challenge for her to recite basic facts about me and my family. She’s happy to spend time with me but the conversation is entirely about her life and her large extended family. She quickly changes the subject when I bring up my own family and experiences. She was disinterested in my parents to the point of rudeness and has never mentioned my mother again since she died of cancer.
Suffice it to say, I don’t consider us to be close because there is no “me” in the relationship.
9
Hear, hear. I'm always astonished at how many times my mother-in-law rehashes the same handful of stories about her family, but never wants to know anything of mine. Sadly, a recent overheard conversation made it clear that my role in her life is strictly as a party that makes her son happy, and that she's pleasant to me so as not to alienate him. Beside that, I'm not much of anything in her eyes.
3
I am so grateful for my mother-in-law. She's terrific.
11
I'm a little bemused by those MILs posting that their DILs are, to paraphrase, horrible people without any redeeming features.
Why do your sons love them? What sort of marriages do they have? How did you manage to raise sons willing to take abuse from dreadful women?
61
Not surprising. That’s the way it goes. So what?
3
So, I want to be with and love my son's children as much as my daughter's. Why? Because I love him just as much, even though our relationship is very differenct.
4
My MIL visited my kids every 6 wks (although never once changed a diaper) until my sister in law - her daughter - started having kids. Now she goes there instead and makes up excuses why she can't come. sometimes it's the mom, not the wife! Yes, my kids are closer to their maternal grandparents now.
16
Why don’t we ask the MIL what the real issue is? Perhaps, they will give an interesting point of view? Or maybe they will be honest and tell the truth about their true feelings.
2
Nothing frustrates me more than people who insist that women are just magically endowed with special abilities to pick up the phone or send photos or thank you letters.
The “magical kinkeeping glue” is a series of behaviors. That can be learned. That should be taught and learned.
Women do not have magical kinkeeping powers and more than women have magical chores/managing doctor visits powers.
Men who claim they just don’t have these “powers” might try to see all this as skills and behaviors.
Poof! magically men can be good at being the glue to hold the family too! Pick up the phone and call your parents, it’s magical how that works.
Suddenly both mom and dad have magical glue!
53
@Alex Scott
We all expect men to figure out how to network in the working world, but let them off the hook in using these skills with the people they supposedly love and cherish. People live up and down to our expectations — we need to expect more of men in their kinkeeping roles.
5
My relationship with my maternal grandmother has always been better than with my paternal grandmother. This in spite of the fact that my father, unlike many of the fathers alluded to in this article, was constantly making sure we spent a lot of time with his family. In fact, we spent every Sunday at her house until I was 12, and almost every Christmas because my maternal grandmother lived 1000 miles away.
Nevertheless, my father's mother caused so much strife in my parents' marriage and she was such a horrible mother-in-law to my mother, often in front of us, even as kids, that I couldn't help hating her for making my mother so unhappy.
Fast forward 40 years and things between her and my mom have mellowed considerably, but I still don't really have a relationship with my grandmother beyond seeing her at some holidays. It's sad; I've grudgingly come to realize she's quite an extraordinary women who went through a lot to raise my father and aunts alone the way she did after her husband died young, but it's more of an academic admiration than a familial love.
Maybe this is a warning to all MILs who treat their DILs poorly: we kids notice and we remember.
26
I didn't get enough time with either set of my grandparents, because they were in another country and we couldn't afford to visit often, maybe every 3 years or so. I definitely had warmer feelings toward my maternal grandmother, who was kinder and more engaging with us granddaughters. My maternal grandfather was fun! He taught us how to play a Greek version of gin rummy, and would throw down his cards with a flourish. In the afternoons he'd take us for walks to the local patisserie to pick out treats.
My dad's mom was a good cook, but something of a martinet and she lacked the ability or desire to get along with children. She was bossy and scared me a bit, and she and my mother did not really get along. My paternal grandfather was kinder, but somewhat dreamy and quiet. So yes; children do notice and remember a lot.
I can probably top most of the DILs' horror stories here; my former late parents-in-law were monsters; even from many thousands of miles away they exerted the inexorable tractor-beam of malevolence. Their other DIL was their own niece/cousin and they savaged her equally.
I spent 18 months living in the same compound with them; to say that was instructive competes for understatement of the century.
Far too many men are let loose upon the world after their parents have destroyed their capacity to form any sort of mature relationship. If your prospective in-laws are loathsome in any degree, you better make sure your prospective mate demonstrates every opposite trait in spades.
17
I had a closer relationship with my mother-in-law than with my own mother. That didn't mean I didn't have a relationship with my mother just that my mother in law was a bit older and wiser (I married the youngest of 5 with 20 years between the youngest and oldest). I just hope that I can have the same kind of relationship with my daughters in law. One has already said I had better be coming to help her when the kids come. So did my daughter. I hope my other daughter in law will feel the same way.
4
Why marry a woman who cannot accept her future
husband's family and vice versa? It's a recipe for
estrangement and animosity. People aren't going
to change just because a baby has arrived. Putting
the grandchildren above politics is the goal, or not.
4
This article is so spot on! At least where me, my wife and our relationship with not just our parents but also our respective siblings - my sister and my wife’s sister who lives in the Bay Area - AND their children’s relationships with our daughter.
My wife works full time and has an operationally a more busy job than I do. I have been convinced, and have said as much to my wife many times - women continue to be the “epicenter” of the family. Women are just better at keeping in touch and relating. They guide/ control - unwittingly - who the family socializes with, interacts with and develops strong bonds with far more often for this to be a coincidence.
Men and women are just wired differently biologically. It doesn’t matter that as a father/ husband I have spent far more time “kinkeeping” as the article says - doing home chores or looking after our daughter. I still expect my wife to be the social glue between our family and all our family and friends. And whether I expect it or not, she is. And that dictates automatically whom we get closer to as will our daughter - at least to some (large I feel) extent.
I saw this with my parents - my sister and I are closer to and in touch with Mom’s side of the family!
My wife and I have had our shares of arguments, fights even, about this - our daughter gamely tried to balance things out! It has taken me time to understand and come to terms with this mother-daughter bond phenomenon - and I have no choice but to accept it! :-)
7
I have read most of these comments and I think you may be the only man brave enough to step into it!
5
Why do you assume this? That's INCREDIBLY privileged. My husband does not expect this of me. We both have jobs. We are both parents. We are both children of parents. Why should I do my own work and his, too?
"I still expect my wife to be the social glue between our family and all our family and friends."
23
Lord, giant eye roll. "Wow, women just are so good at these things!" It's called "caring". You should try it. It takes effort; it's not biological. Women would LOVE for men everywhere to step up and take care of the men's own side of the family. Caring takes effort. It's not magic. It's not "feminine". It means you have to think of someone besides yourself. That can be hard for many people, men and women.
24
As I read this opinion I found that I very much identified with it but it failed to convey the DIL perspective. Early in my marriage and when my kids were small I had a seemingly good relationship with my MIL. Over the years I have experienced her favoritism to her daughters children. Although I send schedules and try and make plans for visits around my kids activities she generally ignores that information though regularly has elaborate plans to attend her daughters kids activities. I used to visit her and her husband with out my husband but after being treated rudely and ignored when I visit with the kids, I will no longer visit unless it includes my husband. It is not a one way street of poor behavior from DIL that creates strained relations. Any MIL who wants to blame their DIL for the shortcomings of her relationship with her grandkids should take a good hard look in the mirror.
32
I would really love to see an article with research that interviews sons and paternal grandparents.
We have had HUGE changes in the roles of fathers in the last 50 years. Starting with now being in the delivery room to much more hands on involvement in nurturing and pârenting.
Why hasn’t the expectations for daughter in laws to be the kin keepers changed too?
What is preventing kinkeeping from the son’s side to encourage close relationships with the grandkids and grandparents?
THAT would be a helpful article.
20
This op-ed was incredibly one sided and upsetting for me to read. I have worked incredibly hard to build a relationship with my in-laws - during visits I spend more time with them than my husband, and I am the one who keeps up with cards, presents, etc. I do my best to make them feel welcome during visits and I engage fully when we visit them. I used to talk with them several times a week. They have consistently shown favoritism to their daughter and daughter's children, while openly criticizing me ( my father in law once told me "there's a list") and even more sadly, criticizing our children for doing things that kids do, like tantrum when they were toddlers. It has been my husband, not me, who wants to avoid spending time with them. After years of smiling through direct insults and hurtful comments, I have stopped trying so hard and just accept what is. Never have I objected or gotten in the way of spending Moreover, I have many friends who have similar experiences with their in-laws. I also know some women who have wonderful relationships with their in-laws.
Relationships are complex -- to put blanket blame on daughter -in-law, or any family relation, is overly simplistic, unfair, and cruel. As the comments here illustrate, people have wildly different experiences with in-laws, grandchildren, and children.
I respectfully ask the author to please talk with a broader group of people and present a more balanced narrative of this complex and incredibly important issue.
75
I can also speak as a grandchild who was much closer to my maternal grandmother than paternal. I found out later that the paternal was angry when my dad married mom(it meant that his checks would stop going to her, she also finagled him out of his benefits from his brother’s death in the war). My parents would tell me that I would throw a temper tantrum in the car if I knew we were even going to be driving close by her house (can you imagine that type of trauma)
I was never included in the paternal sides birthday parties, dinners etc. However, my maternal side loved me to death, we went to live with her after my parents separated and mom was able to get her own footing and buy her own home. I loved my maternal grandmother and she was my favorite.
6
I agree with Son’s comment that is often very difficult for a man to navigate both his mother’s and wife’s points of views. He feels stuck in a no win position.
Framing it as zero sum though is the problem.
That logically will lead to a man doing nothing to avoid hurting whoever “loses”. But that inaction makes a bad situation worse.
Kinkeeping involves seeing it not as zero sum but as an interdependent system with various needs that have to be balanced with good communication and healthy boundaries. Not zero sum but win/win.
I get that it is hard to do this! That is the reason why it is such a common problem.
But to have a healthy extended family and a good marriage the skill must be learned and/or professional help sought. That’s the skill. That’s the job.
It’s that zero sum framing that often confuses and paralyzes men imho.
18
and you are a maternal or paternal son in law...?
just wondering so I can better understand your
perspective.
1
I had a very close relationship with my paternal grandparents, spending many weeks with them each year. We had cooking days, trips to the hardware store, house cleaning weekends, holiday dinners to plan and execute, etc. I LOVED it! One of my prized possessions is a photo of my grandmother and our first child, taken shortly before she died. Only many, MANY years later did I learn that my parents had had a serious falling out with those grandparents over a family business issue which left my parents feeling very wronged. Yet I never heard a word about it or sensed any problem in the relationship as a child or even a young adult. I still consider their discretion to be one of the most loving gifts I ever could have received from my parents. Despite their own personal (and perhaps justified) anger at my grandparents, they never communicated any of that to us kids, and we all had close, loving relationships with those grandparents. Our own children had very different grandparents who never hosted them overnight, babysat, took them anywhere or spent any time whatsoever with them individually. I felt very sad and hurt about this, but, having learned from my own parents, kept my mouth shut about it. Sure enough, our children nevertheless managed to develop what they considered to be special relationships with their grandparents. Grandparenting can take many forms, and parents should bite the bullet and let the intergenerational bond develop as it will. Sign me BF
32
Growing up, I was much closer to my paternal grandparents. particularly my Grandpa, because they were the ones who came to visit.
My husband has never had close contact with his parents, even before we had a son. I would be upset if his parents expected me to maintain contact with them, instead of him. I mean, if it's not important enough for him to do, why should I?
As it turns out, his mom (his parents are divorced) is the one who reliably sends birthday and holiday cards to our son. And, because I see her effort, I send photos and videos to her in return...because my husband doesn't.
I talk to my mom regularly and she always sends her love to my husband and son. So, kudos to the maternal and paternal grandmas. The grandpas...not so present.
10
I loved my mother-in-law and she loved me. Although she lived 350 miles away, she had a close and loving relationship with my children for over 25 years. She died last year. I still have my own mother with whom I am also close. I am so blessed. So are my kids. And husband. Everyone should try to love as much as they can. There can never be too much love in the world.
47
"Everyone should try to love as much as they can. There can never be too much love in this world. "
Thank you, Diane, your words are a balm to the heart! You had a loving relationship with your mother-in-law for 25 years. Your grief is still new, remember that your love gave her tremendous joy! To read how very grateful you are that your mother is still with you, made me cry. Few things are as solidly GOOD (among our uniquely, spoiled species) as someone who realizes how great the life they have, truly is. No glitz, no excess! Heartfelt gratitude that the most important part of human life, to love and be loved, is fulfilled.
Love infuses life with joy and purpose. Without it, life is terrible. As infants, we fail to thrive, without loving, frequent touch.
Plead read Diane's comment, her words direct us to life's essence.
Remember the words of the grandson, who estranged himself from his paternal grandmother, no longer could he witness his mother treated cruelly. His closing words: that grandchildren see & remember, should cause every parent & grandparent to ask, am I hurting this child I love?
At the other end of the spectrum, remember the daughter, with such well-deserved pride in her parents' actions ( they never allowed a past business deal that went sour... to alter or harm her relationship or love for her grandparents.) How many people do you know, would do the same? It's shameful how many of us use precious children as if they were commodities.
4
When my first child was born, my in-laws visited every 4 weeks for a week at a time so MIL could “help.” That meant holding the baby. No cooking, laundry, tidying, or grocery shopping; just holding the baby during daytime hours. No diapers, either; if the baby needed changing she promptly handed him over. She did want to bottle-feed him, because that’s fun, and relentlessly hawked formula despite my insistence on breastfeeding. She pooh-poohed current safety recommendations (“My sons slept on their tummies and they’re still alive”) and tsk-tsked at my plan to return to work.
Furthermore, it became clear that she and FIL expected my husband and I would host them as we had before the baby: with elaborately cooked meals, carefully planned entertainments, and an immaculate house. FIL grumbled if dinner was later than usual; MIL asked us to take her to the mall.
I’d liked my in-laws and very much wanted them to be involved with their grandchild, especially as my parents are deceased. But my husband and I were exhausted and dismayed by these visits. After 4 months he told his parents they couldn’t come so frequently if they weren’t prepared at least to make Target runs, empty the dishwasher, and change the occasional diaper. And he told his mother to stop pushing formula.
After that they visited twice a year.
88
I am always amazed how completely some people are obsessed by their grandchildren...seems a lot of unnecessary pressure on the whole family. My feelings echo those of George Burns: "Happiness is having a large, loving, caring, close-knit family in another city." :)
20
I believe George and Gracie were childless.
Everything's relative, as they say.
4
busted! Great catch, Pia!
If you ever watched their television show, you would know that they had a son.
As others have said, it can go both ways. When my children were small, both sets of grandparents livsd far away and we visited both with semi-equal frequency. But when we visited my husband's parents it was abundantly clear that his mother had far more time and patience for her daughters' children than her son's. She had loads of toys etc. for them but my kids were pretty much my problem when they visited. When asked to read a bedtime story, she said she always hated those books, and refused! It was pretty amazing to me since she totally adored and worshiped her son (my husband), but his kids... not so much I guess.
16
Also one thing to consider is whether this lopsided relationship between maternal vs. paternal love is more of a byproduct of American culture. My brothers and I are second generation here, my parents are from Vietnam. My parents see my brothers' kids at least 2-3 times a week, and for a day or two a week, they even provide 9-5 childcare. My brothers are married to second generation Filipino women and their kids have equally strong bonds with their maternal grandparents, who often watch the kids during the weekends for a couple of hours here and there. I think everyone in our collective family feels a shared responsibility for helping to take care and raise all of the children in our family, which might not be the same for typical American families.
14
This definitely hit a sore spot for me. I had a warm and loving relationship with my in- laws prior to my child’s birth but I found that they changed dramatically once my son was born. They wanted to take over. And their excitement was sweet until it disregarded me and my husbands feelings. Fast forward 3 years and we are strained. I still love them but I am resentful and angry. Much of this is cultural. We are Indian and there is an expectation that they know what is best right down to the religion we practice and how often we attend. I blame my husband for being unable to draw clear boundaries. I also wish my in laws would see the damage they are doing to our relationship. The article felt like a one sided opinion to me but parts felt true to my experience.
30
Research can be interpreted at the whim of the author.
End of story.
9
Deal with in-laws, nation.
3
“Her daughter-in-law, whom she didn’t know well before her pregnancy, “did not want me to be close,””
Precisely! The daughter-in-law is of no interest until she gives birth to the grandchild. Now suddenly grandma wants to be close. It’s obvious that he daughter-in-law has heard that message loud and clear.
And why is grandma counting on the daughter-in-law to make all these plans? Relying on your son, grandma.
45
Blaming this on a son’s inability to “step up” is a very simplistic response to a complex issue.
Being caught between two women like this can seem like a zero sum game when in the middle.
MILs don’t fully appreciate that a son has to pick his wife if pushed on this matter. DILs must also consider that they are very likely to find themselves as the MIL in future.
No one wants to be locked out of a healthy family dynamic.
8
"A son is your son till he takes a wife; a daughter's your daughter the rest of her life."
14
And this my father repeated to me over and over as I am his only daughter and youngest. That I should ever forget that my purpose was to care for my parents as they aged.
22
If I hear this mythological lie perpetuated, I'll explode! Can't you seem the harm in blowing this issue off with this nonsense?
9
My parents moved 1000 miles away when my son, their 1st grandchild was 10 months old. When he was born, my mother told me she hoped I didn't have any more. I did have a daughter, 25 months later. Never once did they have my kids down for a vacation or even an over night. Whenever they came back to town, they stayed 20 miles away with my brother because Dad thought my house was too chaotic and meals weren't ready at the times he chose. My mother did love them both in her way. My father extremely aloof to this day.
Thank goodness for my MIL, who although still working full-time and having two teenagers of her own, was there for me at every step. She was an absolute wonder of a woman.
Tragically she died when my kids were 5 and 7. That was 22 years ago and I still think of and miss her.
47
Wow this op-ed got under my skin. I have come back to it and the comments section many times. I think that Ms. Span left so much out that needed to be said and the daughter-in-laws get the short end of the stick in her analysis. Many of the comments have pointed this out, which have made me feel slightly better, but the orginal text left me so upset that part of me wishes the NYT would publish another article rebutting Ms. Span's article hopefully with more academic nuance. It was impossible to tell here what was real data (based on a decent sample size) and was was just gathered from a few cases and a few "expert" opinions.
I don't have kids yet, but my husbands mother has treated me poorly both when we started dating and continuing well past our engagement. I really want her to have a good relationship with our future kids. Esspecially because I don't have a lot of family. But I also know the pain of how I was/am treated pre-grandkids will always be there and I will have to work hard to push past that.
Mother's are working hard! Give them a break.
44
Weighing the Grandma Factor; In Some Societies, It's a Matter of Life and Death
https://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/05/science/weighing-the-grandma-factor-i...
Prior NY Times article stating presence of a maternal grandmother decreased mortality rates of children, while presence of paternal grandmother did not.
11
I can speak as a grandchild that is much closer to my mother's parents than my father's mother. My paternal grandmother is not someone I am close to, this feeling is shared by my two younger sisters as well. Perhaps, it may be due to watching all the strife she has caused in my parents' marriage over the years, and eventually, feeling that if she dislikes my mother so much then there is a part of me that is unacceptable. Or, maybe, it is just her. I don't know.
19
I'm surprised you didn't interview any mothers in this article. If I were interviewed I would say that I would endorse any and all visits to my in-laws for bonding time. But my husband opts out of the arranging of these outings. I'm already in charge of every holiday, every birthday party, grocery lists and cooking, homework, teacher meetings, laundry, sports schedules, medical appointments, play dates, and not to mention my in-law's birthday, Christmas and anniversary gifts. It's his family!! Do I have to be in charge of paternal family visits too? I just don't feel I should be responsible for making this happen. The responsibility for this should be squarely on the shoulders of the sons.
162
Mothers were interviewed. Mother-in-laws happen to be mothers also. Perhaps helpful to remember.
4
I have the opposite problem. As I type this, my son is playing with his maternal grandparents (my parents). My husband's mother, despite living closer to us than my parents, rarely comes over despite my husband and I basically begging her too. I wish my mother-in-law would visit so that my son could get the love of all his grandparents. So I believe it is not just based on gender - it is based on the person and his/her own lives and priorities and culture.
30
Growing up my brother and I were closer to my moms family even tho my dads family lived equally near by. Probably because my mom and her mother in law were not close. My children had equal time with my parents and in-laws probably because my husband is close to his family. Dr. Kornhaber was instrumental in helping us get grandparent visiting rights when our son divorced. We are as close with our sons children as our daughters. My new daughter in law and I have a wonderful relationship. we are actively involved in all of our grandchildren’s lives. I agree that grandma not grandpa takes the lead in the relationship. Oops theres the doorbell, wonder which grandchild is here
6
We don't exactly have a child-friendly society anyway; it's no surprise that grandchildren aren't considered, in too many families, to belong to the whole extended group in equal measure.
When I was an exhausted commuting mom in NY, taking eight buses a day and picking up my kid from aftercare on the last leg of the journey home, at the height of rush hour, the only people who consistently and with love would give up their seats, unasked, for my child were Chinese grandmas and South Asian young women. All the 'mericans would pretend not to see us. Of course I wouldn't accept the elderly's gesture.
There are many awful aspects of Asian cultures and the place of daughters-in-law is pretty much a bad one. But it might behoove us to observe how people who have in living memory endured very terrible times cherish the young generation. In my old neighborhood of Flushing, bent-over old Korean women are carrying their grandchildren everywhere in those blanket-wrap baby carriers. Not even pushing strollers. Body-to-body.
42
I had one of those families where we were all much closer to my mother's family than my fathers. Then when I was 9, something happened and my mother just took off, never to return. But she took all of her relatives with her - my grandparents, uncles, aunts, cousins -never to be seen again. The only ones we had left were my father's family who we barely knew and who cared little for us because they had been excluded.
That's the flip side of this - the chaos and unnecessary loss of family for the children if the marriage doesn't last
24
Not true in my case. But this is thanks to the welcoming approach maintained by each of my two daughter in laws. Very equal warmth to both sides. And super enthusiasm from the grandchildren.
9
I think a lot of these families are repeating a pattern that they saw growing up. My father's family was kept from seeing us by my mom, now my brother is married to someone who keeps his family from seeing his kids (unless a gift is involved). His wife is very aware of her position of power and seems to feel free to treat us as poorly as she wishes because we have to tolerate it if we want to see the children or my brother. He puts up with the situation because he saw the same thing growing up. The man's family doesn't matter.
12
One thing that struck me about the grandmother who chose to remain anonymous is that she reports that she did not know her daughter in law well before the pregnancy and then moved closer and extended offers to be involved with the baby. I hear from a lot of mothers I work with about this dynamic, and it strains the relationship between daughters in law and their mothers in law to feel that they held no value as an individual, the only value they bring to their mother in law’s family is to provide the son’s grandchildren. The wording might be convoluted there but my point is that relationships are built over time. Not eggshells, but taking the time to get to know a child’s spouse and building a relationship with them as an individual as well as a future parent of grandchildren.
57
A LOT of background info was omitted from that story.
Did anyone even ask Grandma to relocate? If she moved unbiden and just expected a role in the family where none existed previously, that was presumptuous.
22
Women are also generally much more sensitive to slights from in laws, real or perceived. I know plenty of situations where a perceived slight from before the marriage set the time of the relationship and is remembered decades later. Just not generally something that occurs with men.
22
I think mother in laws also need to do some self-reflection in these instances - how have they historically treated their daughters in law? What was and is their relationships with their sons? Perhaps their relationships with their sons are not as good as they think they are. Daughters in law often get the blame for any estrangement between sons and their families, regardless of the fact that many times the seeds of estrangement or actual estrangement were present even before the daughters in laws became part of their family. Additionally, in some families, daughters in law are only considered part of the paternal family when that family wants or needs something from them and then treated as "other" the rest of the time.
56
"She did not know the daughter-in-law well before the pregnancy." That is a problem. You cannot expect to be treated warmly all of a sudden. I think my generation (with adult children approaching marriage age) may be different. We spend lots of time with our kids significant others - travel, holidays, family events they are always welcomed and encouraged to join us - so we get to know them well. I am friends with lots of my kids past significant others. You have to build a relationship with a daughter-in-law just as you do with any friend. It does not happen overnight with the birth of a grandchild.
34
Women favoring their side of the family...well, DUH.
6
Old Irish Saying: A son is a son till he takes him a a wife. A daughter's a daughter for all of her life.
15
That explains why I don't claim Irish blood. So, so damaging to proliferate this unfair statement--just makes it all the more true!
3
My dear sister friend explains it this way, “A man is only as compassionate as the woman he’s married to.” True dat!
16
In my opinion & experience, a person, regardless of gender, is generally only as compassionate as the parents that raised him/her. Stop blaming wives & look at the parents.
16
A son is a son til he gets him a wife.
A daughter’s a daughter for all of her life.
per my mother.
3
Uhhhhh.
Get out more.
Like where the daughter in law MUST live with her husband’s parents.
5
Once, my uncle—who had noticed his paternal grandmother’s downright meanness to my mother and her siblings, in favor of her daughter’s children—called the woman, who was in her mid-50s, out on her behavior.
Her response? “I know those are my grandchildren. I don’t know if you’re related to me.”
When I hear these women bellyaching about their poor relationship with their sons’ children, I wonder if they’re really aware of their behavior and how they may come across.
20
I first quickly skimmed over this sentence, reading “layers” as “lawyers: “Dr. Kornhaber sees the family as a pyramid, with layers of love and support underneath holding up the frazzled nuclear family, the one that’s raising the next generation.” In the unfortunate weave of current US culture, this substitution works.
4
'the daughter in law keeps them away from the children' - stop making excuses for sons who aren't stepping up to the plate. i don't know any women who balk at their husband's giving them a morning of free time while they take the kids to visit grandma.
151
It is possible that domineering people parent submissive children who in turn marry domineering spouses who in turn push every wrong button in reciprocal manner with the domineering in-laws. It is another story when domineering people compete to parent or grand-parent children.
18
Thank you for this excellent article.
4
I lost my mother to cancer at age 20, have a mil that was on her 15th grandchild when ours came along and the novelty was far gone, oh and a stepmother that falls in line with a Disney story. What I would have given for my children to have a loving, involved grandmother...who cares maternal, paternal, or step. Love is love.
35
What a lovely, lovely perspective. Bless you, sweet lady! This comes from a heart of love that has experienced loss...or loss of a dream!
1
Isn't it interesting how few men are writing in which may suggest that few men are reading this article. Isn't that part of this puzzle? Until more men feel they have a role in kinship too then these stereotypical dynamics will continue to play out.
60
From the perspective of a daughter-in-law whose mother-in-law is extremely involved as we live in close proximity to my in-laws but far from my own parents, the relationship can still be difficult to manage. My mother-in-law is wonderful with my son, but is incapable of offering assistance to me without accompanying it with pointed and critical 'advice', or stating that she believes I must need help because I care more about my job than my son. I am often told how small and untidy my house is, and how it must be unpleasant for my son to live there. My husband, who works longer hours than I do and does less childcare and housework, is never criticised either for his time away from his son or his failure to meet her housekeeping standards; she does not consider either childcare or housekeeping to be his responsibility. I maintain the relationship for my son's benefit and the bond between him and his grandmother is strong, but her controlling nature and sexism really take a toll on me in our interactions. It's a bit galling to read an article that fails to seriously contemplate (except in a throwaway question) that the fault for poor relationships may lie other than with the daughter-in-law.
151
No one criticizes me in my own house. And I extend that to my DIL and her house. Her house, her rules.
14
I would argue she is not as wonderful with your kid as you think, and it will matter as your kid gets older.
She is modeling behavior to your kid that shows you dont matter. That is not good grandparenting. It suggests her grandparenting is about meeting her own needs (as if your kid were a pet), and not about meeting your kid's needs (which include more things, not exclusively fun).
I urge you to stay alert, particularly if something happens where you or your spouse actually need help. Once it is less fun for grandma, you might realize you are on your own. BTDT.
12
The dynamic of each parents’ birth families is key. My Mother treats (and “spoils”) her kids -in- law as she does her own. My husband’s Mother keeps her own children close, and all of the in - laws are equal, but a very distant equal. Her relationship to the grandchildren trickle even farther down the food chain. I don’t blame my MIL for her priorities, but I feel my daughter is missing out on a potentially rich bond, one that I wish I had with her Grandmother as a daughter -in- law.
19
Yeah, I don't know about this article. I adore my mother-in-law and she was and is welcome at any time. My father-in-law though is a bit problematic, not to mention there are some clashes between him and my husband. Maybe y'all should look a little harder at the father-son dynamic.
25
Some of this is cultural. In some Asian cultures, the son, especially the eldest son, is tasked with taking care of his parents. A daughter-in-law will find that she may have to deal, for good or fo ill, more with her mother-in-law than her mother. That is changing, especially as women enter the workplace and family expectations and structures change, but to say that a mother-daughter bond is closer than a mother-son bond leaves out the possibility that that is culturally specific.
22
Recently I went to visit my son and DIL who live quite far away for the bris of their first child .
I stayed at an Airbnb close by where I cooked and brought them food. I asked daily if I could visit and when , never assuming , never taking their need for privacy as rejection .
New parents are exhausted and although thrilled with a new baby it’s also a stressful time. I wanted to alleviate rather than add to their stress.
I paid attention to what my daughter in law seemed to like eating and drinking so daily brought her fresh squeezed orange juice and a plain croissant from the nearby bakery along with a homemade egg salad sandwich she could nibble on .
I made sure her favorite Ben and Jerry’s ice cream was in the freezer .
Given her distaste of pastel colors I found some cozy and lovely outfits for the new guy in town in colors I know she liked.
I also offered to babysit so they could have a little alone time going out to restaurant or for a walk together.
Other than encouraging her to eat and drink well and frequently and to rest I tried to simply wait until they asked me for advice.
Since they live overseas I’m not close to her but I know my efforts to be of help cooking and washing dishes , observe what she likes, not take over ( difficult for a pediatric nurse ), and respect her wishes went a long way .
I’m rewarded weekly with lovely photos and videos of my grandson in the outfits I bought wrapped in the blanket I made . Held by my son who we both love.
237
You are an excellent role model for how to be helpful without interfering. That is the key. I have already adopted the Airbnb model, and cooking meals, but I love your idea about the special treats. I will do this when I go to CA next month for the birth of my new grandson. Thank you...
20
Beth S, this is perfect. You should teach workshops on how to be a wonderful mother-in-law. :) (I love my own MIL, but you are welcome to join our family as an honorary member any time... especially if you bring fresh-squeezed OJ and croissants!)
22
You sound so kind and thoughtful! I think anyone would love to have a mother in law like you.
13
My mother was emotionally and physically abused by her own mother, who, sadly, had endured years of abuse herself as a child and young woman. Their relationship as adults was emotionally cold, distant, and unloving to say the least. Thank goodness for my paternal grandmother-- a fully actualized and authentic adult, strong, confident, extremely emotionally involved, outpouring unconditional love and acceptance, shoring us up for what my maternal side could not provide. She bought us new clothes every winter and summer, paid for piano lessons and ice skating classes, new schoolbooks and materials every Autumn. My maternal grandmother heaped on emotional abuse, judgment, disappointment, anger and not one bit of material support. Let's not overgeneralize.
36
I, as a feminist coparent, have found that if I want to "drop a ball" that women have been traditionally asked to pick up, I sometimes have to accept that my husband will let it lie or pick it up in his own way. When our daughter was born, some of his family members started exerting pressure on me to do the kinkeeping work I had never done. I had to be explicit - please ask Husband if your needs around babysitting and picture sending aren't being met. I'm willing to parent my child around her family relationships. (Write that thank you note! Did you respond to auntie's email?) I refuse to parent my husband, even if my in laws might think I'm mean.
111
I agree with you -- except for when the wife/mother does not work outside the home, and the husband/father does.
4
Even if I don’t work outside the home, I don’t have to take on kin keeping for my partners side of the family.
35
Kinkeeping for both sides of the family is NOT a package deal with choosing to be a stay at home mom.
If it works for both people to ADD kinkeeping that is really the responsibility of the son for his family
then it needs to be AGREED to on both sides.
The son needs to still take steps to stay in touch with his family so they don’t feel they have lost him when he got married.
It MATTERS that sons stay involved.
And that his responsibility for kinkeeping for his family is acknowleged even if some of the wife sends the photos and makes the vacation plans etc. (per their agreement not his passivity).
18
I feel so fortunate to have two daughters and a fabulous daughter in law who all include me and my husband in all activities. I do think we often reap what we sow, though. Closeness is something that has to be built into a relationship over many years and in many instances, and the best advice to grown children is often the advice we don’t actually share. My own mother was a wonderful grandmother to her natural and step-grandchildren, and I was lucky to have such a great example. Love freely, give generously of your time and affection, and most often things will turn out well.
21
I suppose, as the adage goes: The grass is always greener...well, you know the rest. I have two lovely daughters, one married, the other not by choice. And there will be no grandchildren for various reasons. Whereas my friends with married son's need to tread carefully if they intend on enjoying their grand babies, I look at them with a tad of envy. How I would love to relive the joy of our own children when they were young. And perhaps it would be a little sweetener to the medicine for my husband now with advanced Parkinson's.
I think what I am trying to say is that we need to relish and embrace what we do have when it comes to family. Not perfect, but neither is life.
41
There is this whole dynamic of approval/disapproval that taints the relationship. Young moms are trying to figure things out. Grandmas have been there done that. and can do the "new mom" thing with their eyes closed. Grandmas have authority; young moms are trying to earn theirs.
It really is that simple.
My advice to all Grandmas is this: praise. Support. Be thoughtful. Be understanding.
This time of life is not "about you". This time of life is about them. Not because they are selfish, but because their resources are wholly (and rightfully) dedicated to establishing their family culture. Young moms need the room to figure it out for themselves.
57
I heard long ago the advice that the dil was the "lioness at the gate" and the way to be a welcome guest in the home was to make yourself a welcome guest, so when I visit my son and his wife and family, I work- I do all the laundry, clean the kitchen after every meal, make the kids breakfast so Mom and Dad can sleep in, insist they go on date nights and grocery-shop together while I manage the kids, be "present" with the kids when things need to get done or it's the end of the day and they need a break. I always travel to their home, make no demands or guilt trips, offer no advice or criticism. You want to be a welcome guest, make yourself one. Everyone will be happy to see you come and sad to see you go!
95
Please come be our kids' visiting Grandma!
12
All I ever wanted from my MIL was for her to love my baby, be nice to me, and acknowledge my husband's status as a new head of a family. I think the main obstacle in many cases is the narcissism of a MIL who can't let go of their son or their presumed role in son's life. Can't accept that son has grown up now and is striking out on his own.
24
Sue, this is exactly how my mother behaves and is a welcome guest every time! My MIL can’t even bother to take off her shoes upon entering or pick up her own dish. MILs take note.
13
It’s a funny thing. My experience as a mom to a young boy has mirrored that of several friends at this stage - we fully expected our parents to be involved in our kids’ lives, only to be disappointed by how little interaction there’s been on their parts! This is something we’ve had to learn to deal with. We aren’t looking for the moon, just regular interest & a sincere effort to be involved.
Part of the issue is geographical distance, but that’s not the whole story. When I was pregnant my own mother made a passing comment to the effect of “I raised my kids already.” Ouch! I know she adores my son & would make every effort to be there for us if we really needed help, but despite living just a couple hours away we saw her only a few times a year. She routinely put off visiting, citing things going on in her own life. A friend’s mom is too engaged in charity work with her church to visit her daughter & grandkids regularly. These things pain us. We understand our parents wanting their own lives; just wish we were more a part of them.
My MIL, by contrast, drove an hour each way 2-3x/week to care for my son at my home for several years early in his life. My in-laws live closer but also make more of an effort. I try hard to give them as much time with my son as they want. I’m sure it’s still not enough but they love it, my son loves it, & I’m so thankful he has them in his life. I figure the more people a kid has in his life who love him, the better off he is. Why restrict that?
45
No one has shared my scenario .
A daughter in law who is unkind , angry and manipulative yet asks me to watch the kids so much the older one calls me his “ other parent”.
My son works long hours and she’s a stay at home mother who prefers to be out with her friends .
I volunteer for school events, take for haircuts , read books with them, clothes shop and really anything and everything . She is not only happy I do these things , she is furious when I say no to watching them , picking them up , providing dinner if my son works late ...( but sometimes I need a break myself .)
I remain kind but am very sad for the troubled relationship with DIL. In truth , the kids also have a troubled relationship with her . My son however feels that all is well ( not that we talk about her so I don’t really truly know).
I work to be a supportive presence yet her anger and aggression make it very difficult to have any meaningful relationship with her .
It’s superficial . To her I’m the nanny .
And it is what it is .
I love those kids and am thrilled to be so much a part of their lives . And truthfully sometimes feel like I have a bit too much responsibility raising them .
Yet again , it is what it is and they know I love them and am a stable affectionate presence .
26
No, you are not alone. Hopefully DIL will get over her sense of entitlement and improve her relationship with her kids. Kids notice everything and may be closer to grandma as teens and adults than to either parent. They remember who was there for them .
3
you aren't the problem here
4
You are being taken advantage of, sadly. And you are not alone in your scenario,
3
I am a daughter-in-law with two young kids. My in-laws live out of state. I do not call them or invite them to visit, so I suppose if I were a character in this article I could be framed as the distancing daughter-in-law. I don’t reach out to them on a regular basis because I am working, taking care of kids and pets, handling a house, yard etc, and communicating with my own family. Since I am so busy, someone else calls, Skypes, and sets up visits so that my in-laws are close the my kids. My HUSBAND.
145
I could have written the same thing. My kids see and speak with his parents more, because my father lives across the country, and because my family is less communicative, though not estranged.
10
You seem to be saying that you're so busy working that you don't make time to call your in-laws yourself from time to time. Your husband takes care of the relationship with his parents.
Ironically being "too busy" with work is the reason fathers in the fifties, sixties and seventies were let off the hook for their lack of involvement with their families. It wasn't a good way to live.
4
I live next door to my son's family. I'm with them for at least three days a week after school. It's not an occasion when I am there - more like being part of the routine.
My son and i have been through cancer together -his when he was 15. We have always understood each other on so many levels. I am blessed with a daughter-in-law who appreciates what I do and I appreciate that she trusts me with the children.
The three children mostly see their maternal grandparent an Sunday for dinner. It all works for everybody and the kids win the most.
21
Count your many blessings!
1
The observations and experiences shared in this column mirror my own exactly, and those of other paternal grandmothers of my acquaintance. It is great that so many of the comments are from people whose experiences differ. I suppose that means there's hope! I personally am the mother of three sons, two married with two children each. I struggle continually to be able to spend quality time with these young children, the beating heart of my heart. I really enjoyed raising three boys, but nothing prepared me for this.eventuality.
20
I am so sorry for your experience in this regard. I wasn't prepared either...take care of yourself and cling to others and your God!
I was a single mother with one son. We both came back to live in a second house on the family farm when he was 15. Twenty years later when my parents had both passed, my son and wife came back to live in my parents larger home. So I am happily living next door to our three grandchildren. My daughter-in-law and I are happily close. I meet the younger child at the bus stop after school. The older two arrive from a different school a bit later.
Because I am part of a daily routine, my visits aren't "special". They are supervise homework, chores, piano practice. Often it involves getting someone fed and dressed and handed off to d-I-l
16
I suspect this writer was unable to connect to any of the manipulative daughters-in-law mentioned here because we are all too busy working full-time and managing our family's vacation time and relationships as well. As long as women are overseeing this and the many other thousands of emotional roles required of us (from which men are still excused), our own priorities will and should be met. Yes I plan my family's vacations and holidays. Yes when I was newly married I tried to always be "fair" and have one Christmas here and another there. And you know what, after a while I realized if I was the one making the arrangements, I might as well do what I was most comfortable with. You live. You learn. Well, clearly the sons in this piece of writing have not done the latter...
104
Not sure I understand the last part of your comment, but it sounds as though you make connections and arrangements with your side of the family but not your husband's, and he doesn't do it either -- ? If that's the case -- it's your children who are missing out, on what could be a wonderful family connection. It's too bad that men often are this way -- but could you find it in your heart to educate your husband that he should take this on? Or perhaps you already have.
9
I would imagine “educating” our husbands on facilitating family relations isn’t high on most of our lists. We mothers have enough on our plates. The real issue here is about relationships, irrespective of family roles. Regardless of gender, we all have an opportunity to forge strong bonds with those whom we say we love. This whole discussion actually highlights the baked in expectations of mothers being responsible for the success or failure of family dynamics.
I can totally relate to the DIL who has tried to meet not only my mother-in-law’s expectations, but my much older sister-in-law’s as well. As another commenter stated, we women and mothers have to figure it all out for ourselves. What I believe is that we need support and reduced demands.
In my case, as I matured as a woman and mother, I decided that meeting my in law’s imposed expectations was not my job. If they have a problem with that, they should take it up with their son.
25
I am educating my children. Grown adults, including men, can manage their own "emotional educations."
For years I tried to manage my husband's relationship with his family. It caused me immense stress and, when I became a mother, immense heart ache if one or the other "side" claimed something was unfair or time was not divided equally. I observed that the anger was never directed at my husband, but, rather, at me as it was clear to all that my role as mother, daughter, daughter-in-law was to handle this precarious balance. Freedom for me came from realizing that my husband could manage outreach, visits, communication, etc. with his side of the family. I do believe the problem here lies with sons and their parents and that this is a bit misdirected toward the daughters-in-law. Until men step up to play a larger role in family relationships, you will always see this advantage.
The work to change this is to raise boys to see the emotional labor their mothers shoulder, to acknowledge that emotional labor as real and to teach boys that the burden of that work should not solely fall to mothers. Frankly, my hands are full teaching my son this. I do not have the energy to teach my husband at the same time. It is unlikely he will learn that anyway if he has not learned by observing or from typical marital disagreements that have stemmed from this very thing.
20
Scary stuff. Presently single, my son's ex orchestrated his time for the two years they lived together. We saw him once in two years. We didn't complain, but it was heartbreaking. We are hoping he makes a wiser choice when it comes to choosing a permanent partner and adding children to the mix. We think he knows better now but only time will tell. And as hard as it is, I am determined to keep my mouth shut and let the future woman of his dreams drive the boat.
10
Not to be disrespectful, but why can’t he drive the boat?
13
Unless the relationship was abusive, don't blame the ex because your son didn't visit you. As a grown adult, he can make his own travel arrangements.
3
I did not have a unique bond with my mother, unless strained is considered unique, plus the fact that my parents lived 5 hours away. This resulted in them seeing my sons a few times a year. My in-laws lived 1/2 hour away but I could not stand them. My FIL was a mean so-and-so and my MIL was bossy and critical, yet I was the one who typically said, "Time to visit!" and off we would go to see them, which was at least once a month. They never visited us.
Sometimes it is just because people are the way they are that results in how often they see their grandchildren. I tried to allow my sons to have relationships with their grandparents but my husband never thought about it.
23
The relationship between a daughter-in-law or a son-in-law and the respective grandparents never begins with the birth of a grandchild. As the mother of a son myself, I am already (years and years in advance) determined to treat any potential significant other with the highest respect, no matter what our differences or her age. I would also never expect to compare my daughter-in-law's relationship with me to her relationship with the woman who carried, delivered, and raised her. I hope that in remembering these things I can always have a healthy, respectful, and hopefully loving relationship with my daughter-in-law (and her children, my grandchildren).
It also bares recalling that with the birth of a child, lives have been irrevocably changed, someone's body has been irrevocably changed, perhaps even a life risked to bring the child into the world, requiring tremendous adjustment physically and emotionally. That someone is never the grandparent
118
You sound like a lovely person and I wouldn’t mind having an in law like you!(mine are good too)
6
I get sick of the constant "walking on eggshells" daughter in law bashing. Most of my fellow mom friends are dealing with passive aggressive or disengaged grandparents. I have 4 children and my mother passed away tragically when my children were very young. My in laws are the only remaining grandparents and could have very easily stepped in and involved themselves in my children's lives but they never did. They seemed disinterested and more interested in their vacations and social lives. Very difficult to schedule visits around school schedules and their vacations. For years we invited my in laws to our house for the holidays but were told,"we don't travel on holidays you have to come to us." They couldn't pass along the holiday baton and understand why we wanted to start our own family traditions. Instead they stayed home alone for the holidays and made us feel guilty about it. I agree with a previous poster, my generation of women do not ask for help. On the extremely rare occasion when I have asked for help I had to literally beg for it and my MIL made it out to be such a huge hassle for her that it wasn't worth it to me. I think it is a very different generation then the one previous where grandparents stepped in and integrated themselves into their grandchildren's lives. Now that my in laws have aged a bit and have slowed down, they are clamoring for time with my kids. It's almost a bit too late. My kids are almost grown and their grandparents are strangers to them.
72
I would just say, to all the grandmas, whether maternal or paternal, remember that you can damage a relationship much more easily than you can repair it. I still remember every small judgmental thing my MIL said to me when my son was small. She was good to him, and they had a good relationship in the long run. But if I had not overlooked certain things, it might not have been so nice. She had too many opinions about things that weren't her business, like how long I should breastfeed, where the baby should sleep, whether the baby should be left to cry, etc. I'm sure she thought she was very supportive and helpful. I imagine it's the case with some of the complaining grandmothers here.
85
I have noticed this pattern and did not realize that it had been confirmed by research. As a parent of 2 teenagers, I have noticed this. For Indian grandparents, who expect to be very involved in their son's and grandchildren's lives, this pattern causes chaos in the son's marriage. The American daughter-in-law feels like a saint for 'letting' her children see the in-laws at all; while the Indian grandparents struggle with feelings of rejection and abandonment. The solution, as always, is what is best for the children, not what is easiest for the parents.
8
I am an American daughter in law married to an Indian, and you’re right! I DO feel like a saint for putting up woth the inlaws and facilitating time for my kids with them. My MIL is a controlling woman who cannot go five minutes without telling me what to do- whether it’s how to feed my baby, fix my hair, or organize my house. She treats her grandchildren as toys who are there for her entertainment instead of whole people who have feelings and thoughts. FIL is distant and unengaged, and never points out to MIL how alienating her actions are. Both are extremely sexist and religiously bigoted, and take zero interest in me except when I am doing something “Indian” or if they want to skype with grandkids. Yes, Indian grandparents may “struggle with feelings of rejection and abandonment”...because they are passive-agressive, critical, and unable to respect their adult children’s boundaries. How about some self-awareness on the part of the grandparents? Why should they expect to be welcomed into their son’s nuclear family when they can’t treat his wife (and kids for that matter) with a modicum of respect?
6
My sons spent more time with their paternal grandmother . She was retired and my mother wasn't really as engaged. Now I am a grandmother. And my one daughter in law is extremely close to her mother, and the time spent with her family was very heavily weighted. When we had the opportunity to relocate for business, the decision was made easier because of it. Sadly, instead of advocating earlier for a more equitable division of visits and holidays, our son became irate that we wouldn't be available for the occasional drop by occasions at their whim. Our interactions with their children are limited to birthday and holidays cards with cash. Our other son makes sure we feel welcome to visit, and we work hard to be involved without being intrusive.
7
I guess I'm just lucky. My son and daughter-in-law gave birth to our granddaughter about one and a half years ago, and we have been blessed with the opportunity to be a big part of her life. Both sets of grandparents help with babysitting so that both parents can work, and we also have fairly frequent sleepovers and other adventures. I know my daughter-in-law talks to her mother much more often than me -- she was an only child and has always had that relationship. But it does not translate into any less time for us with our wonderful little girl - life is grand!
18
My husband has brothers, and it's really interesting to see how the MIL dynamic plays out amongst each of the wives. My MIL and I get along great, I actually prefer her to my own mother. But for my one SIL, it's just a little bit chillier.
It'd be interesting to see a study of these kinds of relationships amongst larger families - like MILs who have multiple daughters-in-law or even multiple daughters, if they get the same sense.
2
I echo those who wonder why the daughter-in-law is at fault for this situation. I spent many years while my son was young (1-5 yrs ) nagging my husband to call his parents, nagging my husband to drive to his parents' house four hours away for Thanksgiving, visiting my in-laws by myself for days at a time when my husband didn't want to visit. I wasn't having fun visiting them by myself on my own vacation time, and my relationship with my husband was going from not good (maybe not unusual for working parents of a 3-year old) to awful. Finally I decided for my own sanity to stop nagging my husband, and decided to stop taking responsibility for his relationship with his parents. If his parents blame me for this, so be it.
62
I understand the importance of establishing and maintaining grandchild-grandparent relationships. But I also understand the importance of recognizing a spouse’s right to not deal with family he doesn’t want to deal with. Why does this have to be anybody’s fault?
11
because the children can't make it happen.
5
It is the RESPONSIBILITY of the son to maintain contact with his family.
It is also his responsibility to make a conscious decision of what kind of grandparent relationship he wants for his kids. If he thinks he needs to minimize the time spent to protect his kids than that needs to be discussed with his wife.
But let’s be honest, MOST of the cases described in these comments is because the husband/dad/son just is being passive or entitled.
He “just doesn’t think about it” or “I’ll do it later” or “wants to really enjoy his vacation/holiday time without dealing with family” or he just passively EXPECTS his wife to do it all.
So yeah the “fault” lies with the person whose responsibility the job is. It’s a son’s responsibility to do kinkeeping with his family.
14
Aren't there other factors involved? Cultural and generation differences also need to be factored in to these observations. In my family, male children get help and female children must cope on their own. This is obvious through many generations, in siblings and cousins of both genders.
In addition, to those grandparents who feel shut-out, I advise you to be more specific and clear with your expectations. Call your daughter-in-law or write an email to both son and daughter-in-law to state that you want to pick up your grandkids from school one day a week. Ask when, how, and where.
If you want to be close to your daughter-in-law, don't give advice, don't comment on the cultural differences, be complimentary and just be there regularly. Be flexible. Be thankful that she took over raising and caring for your own son. Be thankful that he won't die alone. Be thankful that she even wanted to have your grandchildren in a world where many women don't. And if you want to see your grandkids, you may have to skip that opera/yoga class/garden tour. Don't offer help as a blanket statement, "anytime they need it". For a generation of women who have been trained not to ask for help, this is a very unclear statement. For my husband and me, when we try to take advantage of such an offer of help, everyone is busy with their own lives. So why would we continue to ask? And keep the surprised, "oh my how they have grown" and "how smart they are" comments to yourself.
24
Agree with all you said, except the last. What's wrong with those comments?
1
The answer is "Yes, children seem to grow a lot, when you rarely see them.
2
My husband's family lives halfway across the world. He has a lot of siblings all of whom have a lot of children. They never showed any interest in either me or the children. They would insist that instead of waiting until we could afford plane tickets and vacation time for the four us to visit, my husband should visit more often and alone. He died in August - now they WhatsApp regularly, always ask for pictures and beg us to visit, which we do. Breaks my heart when I think about how much joy it would have brought him if this happened sooner and what a difference it would have made to my children to have had an extensive family when they were young
27
So glad this article does not match my experience. I had a weekly Bubby day with my grandson from his birth until he was well into his teens, an experience I adored and will always treasure. My son and daughter-in-law enjoyed "going on a date," on these days, or just catching up with the myriad details of their busy lives. I moved to the West Coast to help them and have never regretted that decision.
11
This article struck a chord with me, being the mother of 3 sons. My middle son and his wife have 3 children (2 boys and 1 girl) and they live exactly half way between both sets of grandparents - 10 miles in either direction. How lucky are my grandkids! They benefit so much from the relationships they have with all of us in so many ways, I don't even know where to start. My son's mother in law and I have regular conversations about our shared grandchildren. We might share a funny story, discuss a concern, or plan how we're going to share care-giving because mom and dad are away for a few days. Any maternal or paternal grandparent advantage, in my opinion, is a grandchild disadvantage.
10
I have two sons and I can’t say this doesn’t make me sad. One lives across the country and when they have children my husband and I will go and spend time in a rented apt so that we have “normal”interactions with them instead of being on top of one another as my in laws did with us. My daughter in laws parents live in the same city so I know they will spend more time with the kids and it will be very hard to not be envious. But I am determined. I want the very best relationships for all of us and am committed to doing whatever that takes. My other son is with a girl with a very complicated family. I know we represent stability to them and so I feel hopeful we will be a bigger part of their lives than might have been predicted.
11
My family was much closer to my father's mother than to my mother's mother, even though we all lived in the same city. As a kid I sensed that this was not the natural order of things, but the reason was obvious. My paternal grandmother was a warm, loving person who adored children and was thrilled to have grandkids. My maternal grandmother was the opposite. Years later my mother remarked, "My mother-in law treated me like a daughter, and my mother treated me like a daughter-in-law."
9
As a mother of two unmarried adult sons, I've thought about this exact situation many, many times. Of course, my situation can't be compared with anyone else's, but my sons were so fortunate to have two sets of grandparents who were good and loving people and who loved my children unconditionally. While we didn't live close to either, we lived close enough that we could visit for a long weekend and vice versa. Each grandparent expressed their love differently. Of course, my parents' grandparenting style was familiar and comfortable to me. They loved to spend one-on-one special time with my boys talking, reading, laughing, inviting them into to their daily routine. My in-laws were more hands-on, preferring to take them out to explore and discover. My father-in-law loved to teach them about science and building things. Holiday celebrations were shared between the two large families and while my in-laws traditions were different than my family's, I learned to appreciate the easiness of their ways, and all of the grandchildren enjoyed being with one another. So two sets of loving grandparents gave my children more life experiences, more love, more memories, and more celebrations than what they would have had if they didn't have them in their lives. What a gift each grandparent was and how lucky my boys were to have them fully in their lives.
17
Seems a little harsh to me. Perhaps the 72 year old grandmother who moved to CA should have discussed the expectations of how much time she’d be spending with the family before she moved. We had to have frank conversations with both sets of parents after our first was born. Both thought they should visit once a month (we live an awkward 3 hour car ride distance from everyone where they can drive but expect to stay 3-4 days), and thought they should be staying with us in our 800 sq door apartment. That schedule they thought they had to the right to demand left us no time to ourselves. A lot of stress could have been alleviated if they’d gotten hotel rooms or recognized that as busy working adults trying to figure out parenthood we also needed time to figure out our own family structures. And while it may be true that over the years we have seen my MIL less when she comes she sits on our couch and doesn’t help (I don’t think she’s ever changed a diaper).
22
-----"She moved to Southern California last year to help her son and his wife with their new baby, her first grandchild. “I expected I’d be hands-on, babysitting in the evenings,” she told me."
I absolutely agree. Grandma should have had a frank discussion with them about moving to CA before she did it, expectations, etc. She assumed a lot here, and guess what - it did not work out.
8
Have you asked your MIL to change a diaper? My DIL is so direct , at first I was shocked but now i have come to appreciate it. She does not allow grass to grow under our feet! Everything is out on the table. Your MIL probably doesn’t know what to do. And, impose a 24 hour visit rule, 3 hours isn’t so far! We have kids on the west coast, we arrive on Friday and back on the red eye Sunday night. NO ONE wants to still see granny and grandpa on Monday morning!
5
My mother, now deceased, was not a nurturing woman except to my younger brother. I was closer to my father than my mother, and upon his death just days before the birth of my daughter, for all intents and purposes, I became an orphan. I was closer to my MIL, and cared for her in her last months before her death.
My daughter and I are extremely close, although not geographically as she is a military spouse. We've been at least a day apart since the first one was born, but I am very close to my three grandchildren, and was present at each one's birth. I feel extremely fortunate to have a SIL who encourages my participation in his children's lives.
Since I did not have a son, I have no point of reference.
9
It's interesting that all the self-help
columns focus on really distant daughters in law.
must be a reason!
6
The reason may be, in part, delusional mother in laws, who cannot acknowledge their own historically toxic behavior towards their daughters in law & even their sons. Their lack of respect for boundaries in any of their family relationships & endless demands & expectations, as well as negativity.
8
If a son has a genuinely good relationship with his parents, he will ensure that continues when he acquires a life partner.
Many paternal grandparents may not be facing the family dynamics that existed long before a DIL arrived on the scene, and she will be a handy scapegoat.
You need to stay emotionally close--but in a healthy way--to your children all your life. Many kids just want to escape home as soon as ever they can, and if they have come from a difficult background, they may pick a strong partner upon whom to rely. It's never so simple as people try to pretend.
34
Perspective of an outsider... My mom is tough. She thinks she's always right, even when she's very wrong. She's not particularly clever but thinks everyone else is an idiot, including my sister-in-law. She can be very judgmental, however, she just sees it as constructive criticism. My sister-in-law is not comfortable standing up to my mother's strong personality and is standoffish with her. My mom takes my sister-in-law's standoffishness as proof that she is rude, ungrateful and snobbish, thus justifying her harsh judgment. My brother sides with his wife (as he should) further agitating the situation. And that dynamic definitely affects her relationship with my brother's kids.
Not saying that all mothers-in-law are my mom, but for as bad as she can be to my sister-in-law, she doesn't recognize that in herself. She thinks she's warm. When she nit picks my sister-in-law's parenting techniques, she believes she's being helpful. As her own daughter, I have no problem putting her firmly in her place from time to time and we are able to laugh about it and move on. I would never expect that of my sister-in-law, because it's a bond that's 37 years in the making. Her relationship with my kids is much more affectionate and relaxed.
Perhaps some daughters-in-law really are just awful for no reason, but mothers-in-law who assume they've done nothing to warrant a chilly reception might try re-examining themselves before pondering the sociology behind the maternal grandparent advantage.
123
That last paragraph - a million times YES!
10
Grandfathers are curiously left out of this conversation as possibly only byproducts of the female relationships. Bah, Humbug!
22
Yes, it seems young inexperienced mothers see Grandma as a threat. Too bad. They are a great resource and often add to a child's education and life view point. However, in all fairness, many Grandmothers try to force their ideas of child raising and are therefore critical . Grandmothers must learn to enjoy their grandchildren but realize they are not the parents, they are not responsible for the child's behavior and they must keep their mouths shut. An example, is cleaning up the kitchen or doing housework . Grandma sees this as a help, but Mom sees it as critical of her housekeeping.
11
I remember, years ago, talking with a woman, the sister of a family friend, who was not a great mother-in-law. She denigrated her daughter-in-law, a teacher, as too rigid and 'stuck up', and she laughed about flouting her requests. She would inundate her two granddaughters with lots of candy in spite of the mother's requests to limit sweets; she would ignore bedtimes, etc.
In short, this woman, who was my age but had started her family very early in life, was still behaving immaturely as a grandmother in her mid-40s. "Experience" as a grandparent doesn't necessarily mean good experience, responsible behavior, or respectful boundaries.
15
Cleaning up the kitchen and doing housework can be very helpful or it can be incredibly intrusive or just not wanted.
The difference is ASKING what would be helpful. What can I do to help you? And then listening to what she says.
Not just ASSUMING. And doing what YOU think is helpful which may be the opposite of what this individual woman wants.
For example I don’t want my mother inlaw doing my personal laundry. Sorting my underwear etc. while some other women might find that helpful.
I don’t want a LOT of help that my mother inlaw thinks is helpful. And then I have the added stress of having to deal with that. Sigh
Bottom line. Don’t just do stuff. ASK
Also once again sons should be navigating all this as the primary contact.
13
As the older parents (72) of one child, a daughter (34), I'm expecting that in fact any grandchild would be closer to her in laws , who are ten years younger. Her husband also has a brother and wife and they all seem relatively close (of course I don't know all the family dynamics there). I'm actually glad that she has married into a family that is both younger and larger than her very-nuclear family.
7
Thanks for your sharing, Julia. You may be surprised! My paternal grandmother was close to 70 when I was born (I'm now 35), and she became my closest grandparent and is still in my life at 100+. Granted our family circumstances were somewhat unique in that my parents had divorced and Grandma helped to care for me, but I will forever be grateful to her presence in my life. She taught me many skills such as cooking and crocheting that I may have never known. I also owe my profession to her - she told me she saw me as a teacher one day and I guess it stuck!
11
I was raised by my mother after my parents’ divorce, but she always wanted me to know my paternal grandparents, especially since her own parents had either passed or were ill with Alzheimer’s. For this , I am eternally grateful. For 2-3 weeks each summer, I would cherish time spent with my grandparents in suburban Western PA away from the hustle and bustle of our metropolitan city. While Grandma would tell me stories of the old country (Czechoslovakia), let me help her cook, teach me to crochet or take me shopping, Grandpa would let me help him with his newspaper crossword, talk local politics, and tell me stories about his time in the war. These experiences continued past childhood when I would drive from my college to spend holidays, weekends, and more lovely summers with my aging grandparents. I’m now in my mid 30s and my grandmother is now 101. Sadly, Grandpa passed a few years ago. I still love to visit Grandma though at her senior center, and even though her thoughts are slowing, my love and gratitude are stronger than ever. From these two individuals, I was shaped to become a bearer of traditions and memories. I also learned the value of family, even if it is not traditional.
41
No one told me about this when I had my three sons. If they had, I'd have kept trying for a daughter.
17
It doesn't have to be this way. Be kind to your future daughters in law, and I think things will work out fine. (My kids are teenagers, and I have a daughter and a son. So I have at least a decade and likely two decades to go before any hypothetical grandchildren may come along.)
6
My MIL has 3 sons and no daughters, and we all adore her. She has been so loving and kind. And forgiving. Don't give up!
4
We, as the parents of a young father, fit much of the profile. Our little grandchildren are lucky enough to have all four of their grandparents nearby.
I admire this article for the thoughts it inspired, and especially for the reminder that we need to nudge our hardworking, smart, loving son and ask him to pay more attention to the relationships that surround his marriage. I've seen and heard our daughter-in-law (also hardworking, smart and loving), express her frustration. They are in the midst of a commuter marriage that makes none o.f this any easier, by the way.
I only need to recall what one grandchild scrawled on a card to me: "Grandma, you are so FUN," to encourage me to seek peace (slowly and carefully) in this family.
11
I had the good fortune to know all four of my grandparents. My mother's parents lived across the street from us. My father's a short drive away. My mother sometimes resented my paternal grandmother's attitudes and interference but no one interfered with my having a good relationship with my grandparents.
Both of my parents died when I was in my early twenties, before I married. My mother-in-law, who lived to be 99, was the grandparent my children knew. Even though we sometimes had our differences, she was a loving and generous grandmother and very helpful to me, which was wonderful because my parents were gone. I grew to love her and still miss her.
When we had conflicts, I made it a point to discuss the situation with her as she had become like my second mother. Some relationships take effort. I am glad we worked on ours.
14
I just don't get it.
All of the grandparents chiming in here seem to think that they somehow have a right to see their grandchildren.
No. You don't.
I'm soon to be a MIL myself. I hear from my son once a month, maybe? And he only lives 20 minutes away. But you know what? He is his own person. When he has children they will be HIS children. Not mine.
There is no right to see grandchildren. There is no right to see your OWN children once they are grown adults with their own lives. That is the key right there--It was my job to get them safely to independence. I will be around if they need me and love them dearly forever. But I have no right to them or their children.
57
and that is why, culturally, this country functions the way it does- in an individualistic, detached, each person to his/her own. no attachments, no expectations. most of the world doesn't work that way, although it is probably changing.
life is hard as it is, I welcome any and all to be part of my village to help me with my child. we are very far away from my daughter's grandparents on both sides but when she visits, I ensure my child gets equal time with both sets even though her father is not alive.
28
I'm glad you are ok with this situation, it would make me incredibly sad. My relationship with my grandmothers and my children's relationships with their grandparents are among my happiest memories. I think people in this country are happy to give up what you refer to as "rights" because they also come with resposibilities.
14
C: I don't think wanting to have a relationship with one's grandchildren is the same as feeling it is a right. I've never felt it was a right. Many parents, who love their parents, desire intergenerational connections. If one wants to have a relationship with one's children and grandchildren of course it is best to be non-judgmental, flexible, respectful and reasonably available. Family closeness is usually because everyone wants that. Some families are less close. Anyone who comes across as demanding and entitled will turn off those around them. That said, grandparents are not wrong to hope for consideration, inclusion and reciprocal respect, unless they have done something to cause pain in the family. Of course human beings are flawed and becoming older doesn't confer perfection, only (hopefully) wisdom.
6
My daughters are 10 and 12 now, but when they were much younger we lived in the same city as my MIL. We are not particularly close, but we certainly aren’t enemies and I had no reason to keep my children from her. She used to have the girls for overnight visits. I had to pack everything for their visits. I do mean EVERYTHING—sleeping bag, pillows, and all their entertainment. Those things are fine, of course, but what bothered me is that I had to send food as well, their dinner, snacks, and breakfast in the morning. That annoyed me to no end, but I bit down hard on my tongue and did it all anyway because I thought my kids should have a relationship with their paternal grandmother.
This went on until I found out that when my sister-in-law (MIL’s daughter) had her kids spend the night, they didn’t need to bring anything. She provided bed sheets and cooked food for her daughter’s children. This was happening in front of my girls! I wasn’t meant to know this, but my SIL let it slip one day. Even though I was angry and hurt, I didn’t keep my kids away from MIL. However, I told my husband that I wasn’t putting another ounce of effort into their relationship. He would have to be responsible for packing their bags and food and getting them over there. Guess what? They never spent the night again because he didn’t care enough to make it happen.
I don’t know what you expect if you don’t treat your son’s children as well as you treat your daughter’s children.
115
That is truly appalling! (What your MIL did, not you.)
14
Wow, that is weird.
We have a grandson via a son and that boy will never go hungry in our house, his Grandmother makes sure of that.
11
I have a great relationship with my MIL, and though they live across the country my daughter is very comfortable around her paternal grandparents, in some ways more so than compared to my parents who are only an hour away. Some takeaways:
1) The relationship with my MIL was there before my daughter was born. I don’t think I would have appreciated my MIL treating me as just some baby-maker and gatekeeper to the grandchildren, and only initiating a relationship postpartum.
2) My husband is very involved, not only as a father but also as a son. He calls his parents a couple times a week, makes sure they Facetime weekly with our daughter, sends photos, schedules visits, etc. I rarely need to do any of that, except for my own parents.
3) Lastly, my in-laws are not perfect. They can be judgmental, overbearing and annoying. They can also be loving and supportive and helpful. I’m sure they’d have praise and criticism of me as well. Though I have to tread more carefully with them and am much more comfortable being open/ straight-forward with my own parents, I think this is just part of the territory.
Communication and effort are key, and it’s worth it. Blaming just one party is really not helpful.
31
I worry about this. My husband and I are trying for kids and my relationship with my MIL is not good. Neither my sister-in-law nor I have ever been welcomed into the family. With them, the family is always "the four of us", even after we joined the fold. In contrast, my parents always say our family is "the six of us" (meaning my sister and our two husbands).
Now that my SIL has children, I'm really worried. My MIL shows up unannounced (she's a 6 hour flight away!), her visits are open-ended, and she criticizes and undermines my SIL's parenting on a regular basis. She is obsessed with spending "alone" time with her grandkids, which hasn't happened for obvious reasons, so she goes to great lengths to engineer alone time with the grandkids and her son (SIL has a traditional work schedule, BIL is a freelance programmer; see unannounced visits), which further cements the "just the four of us" mentality. She picks fights with and is rude to SIL's mother, who lives in town and helps SIL out with the kids all the time. And she had been know to throw tantrums and lock herself in her room when she doesn't get her way.
I know I sound like I'm exaggerating, but I'm not. Her two sons are mortified by her behavior, so they themselves stiff-arm her, which creates a self-reinforcing loop.
Question to all the MILs out there: how do we fix this? SIL and I want two grandmas in our kids' lives but it's gotten so bad, even my niece dreads her visits. Is this salvageable?
10
After numerous visits with bad behavior on her part, my MIL stays at a hotel that we pay for when she comes to visit -- even though we have a lovely guest room. We told her the children were too excited to settle down for bed with her there. It solved most of the problems- if not all of them. Worth every penny.
22
Your husband needs to set clear boundaries with her. Not avoid. Set boundaries. It needs to be done by her son. This is what we had to do and it worked. It was a process but it did lead to a close relationships with the grandkids.
Something like:
“Mom, I love you and we want you in our lives. We want you to visit and for our kids to be close to you.
I (the son) will call you to arrange a time that works for us to visit. And of course you can call me too. But you can’t just show up. We love you and want you to visit but it has to be planned.
We would love to have you visit in June? Is there a week that works best for you?”
Loving and proactive but with BOUNDARIES. Not avoidance with leads to distance. Or just walking on eggshells and putting up with poor treatment which only leads to resentment.
16
It might be helpful to rule out an organic illness (like, say, untreated thyroid disease, etc. etc.) because any number of disorders can cause severe emotional and mental symptoms. And you'll need everyone to cooperate in insisting she gets a thorough exam. If they and she refuse--set boundaries; treat her the way you'd treat a very intelligent but misbehaving dog. "This gets you that. That doesn't get you anything you want. You choose how to behave..."
5
My ex's parents were the grandchildren of Italian immigrants, and there was always a grandparent living in the house. Practically from the time they married, my ex's parents had one of their mothers living with them. And this was in a small row house, trading up ito a duplex. At one point I asked my mother-in-law what it was like having her MIL living her house. Even though this conversation was over 30 years ago, I will never forget her answer: "You never knew she was there." Apparently, her MIL respected the fact that this was her son's/daughter-in-law's house and didn't attempt to play matriarch. Granted, this was well beyond the baby years for my ex and his brother. My point is that some MILs have an attitude that being the son's mother gives them a special status. And then they wonder why their DILs do not warm up to them, especially when the DIL's own mother is still alive and well.
24
I would not describe my relationship with my daughter as "close", but it certainly is with her two children. She is very independent and I respect that. Prior to her working full time, we were closer.
I still have a very good relationship with my son but he lives halfway across the country and I don't see him or his children very often. I adore them all, but I do not know his children as well as my local children.
When he was dating the woman who became my DIL, she was very friendly and I had hopes for a good relationship with her. All that changed after they were engaged, and it changed even more from the time of the wedding. Limos for EVERYONE - bridesmaids, their significant others, but not for US? We hired our own. From then on, she was a totally different person.
I visited when I was allowed to do so. Often, she would arrange to be out of town. I praised her as a wife, housekeeper, mother. I NEVER criticized her or tried in anyway to interfere. My son was loyal to her as he should have been - I accepted that. She would never get on the phone when he called for Christmas/Mother's Day or my birthday.
They are now divorced and I don't doubt that her dislike of his family played a role in this. He did insist that we were to ALWAYS be welcome in their home. She thought we should stay at a hotel (house had 6400 sq ft!). Some DIL's are just very, very possessive. We don't miss her.
14
Women tend not to be as jealous of a son-in-law as they are of a daughter-in-law.
Women have myriad ways of telling a daughter-in-law that "you'll never know him as well as I do."
In strongly patriarchal societies, marriages are often arranged, and the most devoted love a woman experiences is from her son. The loss of that, when he switches his attention to the woman who can give him what his mother never can, often unleashes a storm of enraged cruelty, even if you don't see the rage so much. It's sublimated into every single interaction.
Why didn't the cited grandmother know her daughter-in-law very well before the pregnancy? Was she invited to move near them, or what it all her own brilliant idea?
If you have welcomed a prospective daughter-in-law with genuine warmth and respect, and let her show you what wisdom she'd like to acquire from you, and she's not damaged herself, from before she met your son, the chances are you'll have a good relationship.
21
Yes! I was wondering the same thing - did the MIL in California discuss this move and her expectations and intentions with the daughter-in-law before making the move or just move expecting this is the way it would be?
My MIL announced at our baby shower that she was was going to be taking care of our new baby so that we wouldn't need daycare and leased an apartment in our town, all without ever previously discussing it with my husband or I. Prior to that, we saw her maybe once a month and were not particularly close. I felt blindsided and cornered, and it made me defensive and distrustful towards her. Now she has hurt feelings that she doesn't see our child as often as she would like because her unilateral expectations were not met.
As a daughter-in-law, my advice is not to assume and to ask questions rather than telling her how it's going to be. Also, if you don't already have a super close relationship with the son, if visits and communications are infrequent and not usually initiated by the son, I don't think it's fair to expect that to change once grandchildren come into the mix. I take my lead from my husband when it comes to the relationship with his mother.
13
We certainly have an easier relationship with our daughter's children than our son's. Proximity is certainly a factor, but no question that our daughter is always supportive and the children have followed suit. As they become teenagers and we are able to communicate on a personal level, we, the paternal Grandparents, have developed a warm relationship with our son's children. Patience and love are key.
6
Many, many comments have quoted versions of:
“Your daughter is your daughter all your life, your son is your son until he gets a wife”
This is not DESTINY. This is a result of choices based on assumptions from many people. It can be changed so both daughters and sons are connected for life.
What has to change?
1. Sons need to be taught and expected to do kin keeping skills as kids. Teaching and modeling this is an important part of being a good parent.
Then sons need to use those skills after they marry and have kids.
Didn’t get taught? Lots of books and podcasts and videos and therapy to figure it out as an adult.
What else needs to change?
2. Parents need to call their SON. Hold him responsible for maintain contact not the daughter in law.What if the son doesn’t follow through?
Don’t blame the daughter in law for his choices.
What else? This is a big one.
3. Wives need to not just pick up the slack either.
It’s is important to set boundaries and not just give in and adapt to be “nice” which is what women are taught to do as girls. This keeps the problem going by modeling it to your kids. (And feeds into the inlaws holding the wrong person responsible).
Also, you can bet if there is avoidance of kin-keeping there are more than this issue to set boundaries about.
This is often a marriage issue as well as an issue about grandparents.
38
you raise an interesting point (#2). I make plans for us to see my parents. I leave it to my husband to make plans for us to see his. If we saw them less it would be due to his lack of planning, not my lack of interest/desire.
2
I don't know why DILs can't let go of this faux feminist "It's YOUR mother stuff" and look at what is best for the kids. I did and I'm really glad as my in-laws died young. My son has such wonderful, sustaining memories of them. "Grandma and Grandpa really loved me," he says. Yes, they sure did. My MIL was often ill and was an artist who mostly lived in her own complicated head; we did not connect easily, but I made damned sure my son had a relationship with her and Grandpa (he was easier). It's one of the parenting choices I've most proud of.
5
Absolutely, much of this difference is because the son is not keeping up with his parents. It is not my responsibility to reach out to my in-laws it is my husband's responsibility. It is not my responsibility to facilitate relationship between my in-laws and my child, although I do make some effort, it is my husband's responsibility.
This past thanksgiving, I planned trip from Florida up to Pa. to see my husband's family. The trip was stressful and tiring as traveling on Thanksgiving can be, I did all the planning, ticket booking, get together appointments, etc. I work more hours than my husband and I earn more too. At home we partner well, and he is a good Dad, but not a very good son. I don't why the logistic planning always seems to fall to me, but if I didn't do it we would never see his family.
6
"All DIL are evil if they keep grandparents at arm's length!"
"Any MIL being kept at arm's length deserves it!"
I love to see everyone's preconceptions, defensiveness and reactions on display... because it makes me feel better about my own issues :)
6
My issue with my parents in law is that their worldview is, in many ways, starkly different than the one I and my husband want to pass on to our daughters. While I would never keep my daughters from having a relationship with their paternal grandparents, as they grow up and are becoming more aware of the world, I want to make sure they are not getting indoctrinated with racist and sexist ideas. (Eg, my mother in law espouses belief in “Biblical marriage”, which she interprets as the wife submitting to her husband’s decisions 100% of the time). If I felt more confident that my in laws would respect our wishes, I would feel more comfortable allowing my children to spend time with them unsupervised.
20
I think many older folks are waaay too "into" their grandchildren. It's like they're obsessed. Many of these people need to get a hobby.
30
Wow, is that ever true! I think there's a cult of grandparenthood in this country, as witnessed by all the kitschy mugs and T shirts celebrating good ole Gram and Gramps. I mean, under the right conditions it can be a nice relationship; in other cases, however, it's not a particularly enjoyable or important bond...for a whole host of reasons.
4
If I had grandchildren, I would gladly make them my hobby. Why does that not seem okay with you?
6
Some grandparents may be over-involved, others not. If the family, all of them, are ok with it, what is it to you? To each his or her own I say. I had a good relationship with my grandparents and although they have been gone for years I have great memories. My grandmothers provided me with attention and things my parents sometimes were unable to provide. I am glad they were part of my life.
5
My daughter, highly accomplished, brings excellence to every endeavor. Highly skilled at work, a terrific mother, the friend everyone craves, a person of intellect, integrity, and judgment communicates mostly impatience and detachment to me. Though I strive to be supportive, beneficent, and accepting, I know I certainly haven’t been perfect. I do love her kids, much as I loved her as a child and still do. I wish it was like it used to be, with her accepting and supporting me! Relationships are filled with quicksand, potholes, and traps.
11
Have you talked with her about this? Most likely she doesn't feel dismissive of you at all and it's just your perception because you expect 100% of her when you're around. She's probably just super busy, with kids, job, social life, homemaking, exercise. You should have the self-confidence to not take it personally. It's not about you. (Can you stand it?)
Another mother of a highly successful daughter. I think that mothers bear the brunt of a high-strung daughter's up-and-down emotions. My daughter now in her mid-30s is more relaxed and self-confident and easier to be around. But as my husband reminds me, a mother triggers a lot in a daughter. In my case, I think, she has had to prove to herself she was not like me in some of my shortcomings. So she scrutinizes me in a way she doesn't her dad! Hang in there! We are immensely proud of our daughter and that's a great satisfaction there!
7
As she has told me, she doesn’t like me. (And that is not a perception). I’d be happy with a five-minute phone call every week but a five-minute phone call every six weeks is the reality. I wonder why you are so quick to judge - mother issues?
There's a strong implication here that daughters in law are "keeping" their grandchildren from their in-laws. While I know that may be true in some cases, it carries with it an implicit assumption that it's the woman's "job" to facilitate that relationship. Perhaps if we teach our sons to shoulder some of the emotional work in family life, we will be rewarded in later life by adult sons who take a more active role in staying connected with us.
I nudge my husband to connect with his mother or invite her for a visit when I think of it, but it's not always at the top of my mind, and neither of them takes an active role in planning visits. If I didn't take even that amount of initiative, my kids would have much less of a relationship with their grandmother. It makes me feel angry to imagine being blamed for his mother's less-than-constant involvement in our life. If my parents were still living, would anyone expect my husband to be the one to coordinate plans between them and our kids? Of course they wouldn't.
45
Done with grandkids (grown), done with kids, work, & relationships. Finally me 1st & happiest ever.
7
My ex-husband and I have had this discussion more than a few times. Our only advantage is that our daughter-in-law's parents live in South America and she lives here. She's stuck with us! She acts stuck (and frustrated and irritated with us), but I think we're really great grandparents!! We are easy peasy, careful with what we feed our granddaughter, off to the zoo or the park, help with homework, play time, walking around the neighborhood, lots of books, and lots of love.
And yes, sorry to report, our son does not stick up for us. That could be a good thing for their marriage...and we just want them to be happy and content.
12
If children are lucky enough to have two sets of loving grandparents, good for them! I have learned that I do not have to love- or even like_ my husband's mother. But she loves my kids and is good to them. That is enough for me., as I have no choice really . My parents are both dead.I'd rather my kids had one grandparent, than be left with none.
16
I'm not sure if I should say bravo or ugh. Don't forget, the husband's mother is a mother, and sometimes she misses her boy. And she loved him like your mom loved you.
11
I used to make an effort to see my m-i-l (who lives several hours away) as often as possible. I was friendly, polite, picked out and bought gifts (which her son, absolutely wonderful though he is, rarely did), and never ever reacted to the volley of subtle insults that she tossed my way with a smile. Those insults were ratcheted up after our first child was born. Since my husband never seemed to see them, I began to think that I must be oversensitive and imagining things, and confided in the friend who introduced my husband and me. She assured me that I wasn't imagining it at all, and that my m-i-l had drunkenly expressed her anger and unhappiness at our marriage during our wedding reception (not a surprise, considering she also told my husband not to rule out divorcing me). Several other friends confirmed it. Since then, I make sure to be out of town when she visits, and I send my husband and our children to visit her several times a year.
9
I wish my in-laws would move close by! They live across the country and I regret that my child has little contact with them. I have seen this article play out in my own life, but not as the result of bad feelings - just logistics and my bond with my own parents.
8
Why don't you ask them to consider moving closer? There are plenty of mother-in-laws reading this article who would absolutely love to have their grown up kids suggest this. But they're too smart to brooch the subject themselves - it has to come from you.
2
I must be the luckiest mother of a son in the world! My daughter and son each have two children the same ages. My daughter lives 2000 miles away and I try to make sure I see her and her two little girls once a month, so that I can maintain a good relationship with everyone. My daughter calls a lot and I feel truly blessed that we can talk a lot.
My son and his wonderful wife live ten minutes away and I pick up their three year old son from pre-school and take him to his daycare. I get to see him often, will take him to his favorite restaurant occasionally; I babysit for him and his little sister enough that I feel that I spend lots of time with them. I often play with and bathe them and get to put them to bed. I believe that my daughter-in-law, who I truly love, returns that love and really wants and needs the help. Lucky me!! Her open-mindedness has allowed us to have a close relationship and allowed me to have a wonderful relationship with her children.
31
Yes, you are lucky but you created this by being helpful!
1
I think the difference is that mothers of mothers have had a lifetime of navigating (and ignoring) that mother-daughter relationship. So let's say maternal grandma comes over when baby is new wants to help. Daughter might say, no, don't do it that way, I want it this way. This could be polite or a screaming match. Either way, it's old news for Grandma. So next week, she'll still show up. Mother-in-law is different. If daughter-in-law says, no don't do that, I want this. She might feel offended or feel like her help isn't wanted and adopt a more hands off approach.
I suppose what I'm trying to say is that the cause might not be due to closeness or gatekeeping, just familiarity. The ability to disagree and move on, rather to disagree and attribute greater meaning to it.
78
Don't forget about us daughters-in-law that have lost their own mothers. My mom died many years before I had my son. The interesting thing is, my relationship with my mother-in-law mirrors many that I read in the article, even though I don't have my own mom to to rely on as grandmother. I find it much harder to reach out or just "show up" at my mother-in-law's, even though she and I have a great relationship and she is very warm and welcoming. It just comes down to the fact that she is not my mom, for better or worse. She openly acknowledges that and lets me lead the way, but I do wish sometimes it could be different. I see how she is with my sister-in-law and her kids, and the comfort and ease that they talk about life - the mother-daughter bond that comes from a life together. It just won't ever be like that for me, no matter how hard we both try.
41
Try harder.
11
No, sula. Bp, you’re a good mom.
14
It sounds like you might need to more fully grieve your loss of your mother so you can be open to a great mil who sounds like she loves you. Despite the stereotype, there re many, many emotionally healthy women in the world who genuinely do want the opportunity to love their daughter-in-laws as a daughter.
1
One more reason millennial men are not procreating and women are freezing their eggs. At least the internet is teaching them truths other generations had to stumble thru.
2
I had the exact same conversation this afternoon. It’s just not necessary anymore.
1
I grew up with a mother who struggled with mental, physical, and addiction issues. When my son was born, it was a month or so before she visited, and when she did she was unable or unwilling to be helpful in any way. It was so clear to me what I was missing and how wonderful it would be to have a mother around to help out.
9
My daughter,with whom I used to be close, does not include me ,or if she does, it’s with a strained expression. This situation began with her marriage. My grandchildren are lovely and I treasure every moment with them. My own mother was famously difficult due to a personality disorder. I feel my daughter is forcing me into the same box so she won’t have to deal with me. What I have learned is not to expect anything. I have a relaxed relationship with my sons, feel accepted by my daughters-in-law, and enjoy my grandsons. So you never know. You anticipate a wonderful relationship with your daughter and get a dutiful, pro forma, and strained relationship instead.
7
I do not step on my daughter -in-laws space, but I am there for her. I am their CPA. Her kids are very close to me. Their now 14 year old daughter comes to me with growing up issues. The 7 year old is just thrilled to see me. There son loves to annoy me (like his dad). On the whole, I love them all and give them their space, Life is all about them and their kids (not me). I am there if you need me, but in the end it is about you and your family.
12
I would agree that the mother tends to shape relationships of her children with grandparents ; from there it would depend on whether she has good rapport with her own parents, or prefers those of her husband.
2
The tired gender stereotypes in this article and the comments are depressing. And Dr. Kornhaber’s contention that this is somehow biological are incredibly outdated and so obviously born out of our culture, not some intrinsic qualities in all humans. I know so many families who are an exception to the situation outlined in this story, it’s pretty obvious to me that that’s because this narrative is just a narrative. As younger generations start to have families, hopefully we can retire this ridiculous falsehood.
14
agree. And the gender stereotypes are most likely precipitated more by the grandmothers than the sons and daughter-in-laws.
5
If you're living in it today, it isn't a falsehood, but thanks for your view. This article hit home with me, sorry to say.
11
The relationship b/t MIL & DIL starts when the DIL joins the family - not years later when a grandchild comes into the picture. If the writer of this piece had taken the time to capture the DIL perspective, we could very well hear of stories where MILs were cold, unkind, & unwelcoming to start, which isn't forgotten when MIL want to be included in their grandchildren's lives.
45
Exactly.
2
Focus of this should have been more on asking why sons don’t work harder to foster relationships between their parents and children. Not women as “gate keepers”. Not only is this a sexist to expect moms to be solely responsible for these relationships, but it implies malicious intent. I don’t have kids but I can say just trying to get my husband to keep in contact with his mom is an enormous effort that I don’t have time or taste for. Can’t imagine him asking me “honey, have to called your mom this week?” much less “gee, we should take the kids over to your mom’s, it’s been way too long.” And I don’t expect him to because I make time for the things I care about.
“I don’t have time for that” isn’t an excuse for women. We’re way too tough on moms - who legit, don’t have time for that. This article and many of these comments are no exception.
68
There is no "should" when writing a story! Write your own!
My son-in-law didn't feel like being a husband and father anymore. He and my daughter had been married for over ten years and had a young daughter of 5 and a little son aged 3. After the divorce, son-in-law wanted to avoid paying alimony and child support, so he moved to Iowa (where he still lives 20 years later). I have always been a hands-on grandma and have a most wonderful relationship with my daughter and grandchildren. We've been very close all these years -- traveled abroad, celebrated events and shared a lifetime of sweet memories. I lost my beloved husband 2 years ago, but am so grateful for all the amazing years we've all had together.
9
please clarify the Iowa alimony/child support connection
1
My son-in-law wanted to move somewhere without leaving a forwarding address (to avoid paying alimony and child support). He had friends who lived in Iowa -- they allowed him to move into their home. He has since bought a home there and continues to live there. His children are grown now. He got away with it!
My father wanted children. My mother didn't. They came to a gentleman's agreement, where my mother would procreate and in return she’d get to accompany my father on his overseas postings.
My father was close to my sister. He disliked me, and I him. My mother and sister never got on. I was very close to my mother for many years. After my father died, we’ve grown apart as my mother has become brutal and coarse.
I used to be very close to my son when he was young. That changed in his teens. We grew distant, watchful and wary of each other. I had hoped we’d grow closer as he became an adult. Unfortunately not. I know he feels much anger, bitterness and resentment towards me, to the point of actual hatred. I grieve over this.
Growing up, my daughter and I were frequently at loggerheads. As my son and I have grown more distant, I'm now closer to my daughter than I was when she was young. My son would like to be closer to my daughter, but she feels much anger, bitterness and resentment towards him.
My wife, who had rocky relationships with her mother and sisters growing up, is very close to my daughter, to my son and to my son’s little boy. Since her mother's death, she's grown to resent her father to whom she was once very close. He’s now estranged from his oldest daughter's two adult daughters, having been very close to them when they were girls.
Family dynamics are complex, defy facile analysis, and for me have been a never-ending source of pain from the day I was born.
14
While I think that in our culture the maternal grandmother bond is privileged, I do believe that there is a caveat: the relationship of the daughter and her parents. I am actually closer to my mother-in-law than I ever was to my parents and so are my children. The same holds true for most of my sisters and their children. Our father dominated everything and everyone, especially our mother. As a result we did not trust them to care for our children, though we would have trusted my mother had he not been in the picture. Therefore, I believe relational circumstances matter when it comes to entrusting one's children to grandparents.
Denise, Quebec (but raised in New Hampshire)
9
I have more sisters than brothers in my family and what I noticed is that my family embraced my sisters kids more than my older brothers brood. My oldest brother is the only one of my brothers who is married. My mom would spend months with her daughters and their children.
But when my brother had his daughter she seemed a bit more reserved and felt the need to be respectful of her daughter in laws boundaries.
Suffice it to say as I have a child of my own I could never understand why anyone would pass on the valuable knowledge.
The article says a lot more about the relationship between mother in laws and their daughters. The meme about mother in laws vs daughter in laws needs to be retired (unless the relationship is beyond repair). Daughter in laws should value the advise their mother in laws give and mother in laws shouldn't pass judgement on their daughter in laws. Everyone deserves to be valued and respected.
2
My husband and I were married for 10 years before we had kids. We lived much closer to his parents then my mother. I was very close to my MIL but there were a few small bumps in the road after my son (the 1st grandchild was born). But I think the years of previous relationship helped smooth things out as well as the fact that my own family lived 8 hours away. My ILs are the only grandparents my kids see regularly. Added to that my own mother is not the maternal type...I honestly would not have been comfortable letting her babysit my toddlers. And the warm, close loving relationship my kids have with their paternal grandparents is entirely because of me. My husband is a good son when asked but I honestly think it never occurr to him to call or visit his parents unless it's a holiday. So when my MIL died 1.5 years ago even though my kids are still younger they will have good memories of her and they have a very close relationship with their grandfather. I also am the one who maintains the relationship with BIL/SIL and their kids. Tiring? absolutely but worth it to me. I will do my best to make sure my son doesn't put it all on his wife and knows he should be part of it too. And hopefully my DIL likes me. :)
9
Here's something I wrote earlier this week in another, similar context:
I have been married for almost 30 years and a practicing psychotherapist — including a couples therapist — for almost 25. My personal and professional experience has been that many MILs do not understand the normal developmental and relationship changes that occur when a son gets married. Unable to grieve the loss and embrace the new, they instead take the changes as a personal rejection.
In addition, I think many MILs think they are being friendly and welcoming when really they are expecting their DILs to fit into their family as it has always existed. They often have a very clear vision of what that should look like; rarely does it include any expectation that they themselves will have to be flexible or change. The sad result is that many a MIL feels chronically disappointed and rejected, while many a DIL feels chronically unseen, judged, and unwelcome.
MIL complains of “exclusion, isolation, and rudeness.” When I read that, I found myself wondering if the DIL was simply trying to set appropriate boundaries around her marriage? Perhaps she felt the need to be more forceful when those boundaries were not respected? Or when her husband did not help with that important marital task?
Two books to recommend: What Do You Want from Me?: Learning to Get Along with In-Laws by Terri Apter and Toxic In-Laws: Loving Strategies for Protecting Your Marriage by Susan Forward.
55
In my family experience, the son's mother has difficulty giving up her role as the special, most important woman in her son's life. There is a possessive attitude at play so that no other woman, i.e. daughter in law, will ever be quite good enough for HER son, no matter what. It doesn't have to be spoken but it is a judgment that is plainly THERE. So it may be be that the daughter in law responds to this by choosing to withdraw contact with grandchildren.
There is generally relief when daughters marry, not a sense of loss. When sons marry mothers do lose - power goes to the wife.
Different dynamic. ?Rivalry?
12
My child once asked me why his paternal grandma Florence treated him so differently compared to his cousins. He said he could feel the difference in her attitude and behavior. My husband and I acknowledged this fact we had been wondering the same thing for years. After all these years knowing my in laws family history I am not surprised. My husband is angry and disappointed that his mother plays favorites with the siblings and grandchildren. I try and remind him how wonderful his maternal grandma Ellen was and how it kept us going during our courtship and marriage. Ellen had survived depression, wars and family loss. What broke her heart the most was the rejection of her only son by his girlfriend’s mother. Ellen repeatedly reached out to family on her son’s behalf and they would not approve the match. Her son went off to war and never returned. She had instructed her daughter Florence to be nice to me. More than anything she wanted her her grandson to have the happy ending her son was denied. My mother in law refused to follow her mother’s advice. We have been wondering why for years. All we can do is provide the most loving and accepting home environment for our child so he knows how to build his own healthy family as an adult.
4
Haven’t read all comments yet, so don’t know if anyone else has pointed out the biological relation of a maternal birth-grandmother to her grandchildren. Since the human female is born with her eggs, the maternal grandmother in fact grew the eggs that later became her grandchildren (assuming the eggs were the mother’s).
6
Oh, that dynamic is already set in motion with one of my sons. My daughter-in-law lost her own mother to cancer before the wedding. Of course, I can never replace her mother. My son and I were very close before they met; now, we see each other several times a year (we live in same city). The daughter-in-law keeps the fence high and the doors locked. She listens into every phone conversation and restricts our communication. I've lost a son but wish them well; I've just had to move on.
7
Again the focus is misplaced.
The SON is an adult. He is choosing these behaviors.
20
This dynamic is on your son, not his wife. It is your son's responsibility to maintain his relationship with you, not his wife.
I have a MIL too, and it is my husband's responsibility to maintain his relationship with is Mother, not mine.
6
To men who say that their wives don’t “allow” their mother to visit etc.
Dads need to stand up to their wives. That is part of kinkeeping. You have to be not be passive when your mother or father or wife is not handling things reasonably.
19
I agree. It is pathetic and not the behavior of an adult.
It is a son's responsibility to maintain a relationship with their own mother - it is not the responsibility of his wife. Any other behavior is a cop out.
7
Interesting, but sometimes it's the opposite. In my case, the husband wears the pants & my daughter lives to please him. She is 100% dependent on him for support & lives in "his world". He doesn't like us & therefore doesn't want us to see "his children" (yes, he has used those words, even in my daughter's presence). He has her right where he wants her... My only hope is that she finds her voice one day & maybe comes back to us. Until then, it is like a death without a body...over & over.
PS He openly acknowledges we are good for "his children" as does she. Go figure...
3
Old saying: a son is a son till he marries, a daughter's a daughter forever.
4
If there were a Manual for MILs, Rule number one would be: When addressing your DIL, never begin a sentence with "You should......."
17
If there were a manual for mothers of grown children, it also should have this as a number one rule, too.
11
What does an adult child need from a parent?
Answer (mine): to feel that their parent is proud of them and to help them with their own major life investment, which is their own children.
This provides a useful guide for being a grandparent. Be very careful that what you do is helpful to the parent of the grandchild, that the parent sees you as being a resource that meets their goals for their own child.
It's a major switch from how things used to be, where you used to be in charge of how things are done with your child. And many grandparents fail to make that switch. Some are intrusive, but others just make the mistake of not being careful about what they do. Don't make assumptions. Ask. Pay attention to what your child is saying they need from you. Realize also that they may not know how to ask for what they need because this is all new to them too.
As a grandparent you also have to come to terms with the reality that you are no longer central to your child's life. They are on their own, and their focus is "downward" to their own child. It's a loss. Your child's "job" at this stage in life is to take care of their own child. Not you.
Once you accept these realities then you have an opportunity to do something wonderful, which is to give to your grandchild the experience of being important to someone of your generation. They won't appreciate that for many years, but they will.....long after you are gone.
31
Let's just say that as a DIL and a mother with a son, I have learned what kind of MIL I want to be when the time comes. Mothers of sons, they are not yours anymore when they choose their life partner. Embrace your daughters in law with love and kindness. Everyone will benefit.
13
Of course he’s still mine. He alway will be. He’s yours, too. He loves us both—in different ways, just as you will love him and your own son in different ways. A relationship doesn’t equal ownership, and love is a not a finite thing to be parceled out.
15
Throw divorce into the mix if you want to have a real social science research project...It makes it all much more complicated, nerve wracking, unfun and tedious...years are lost..or can be. It takes almost Promethean effort to overcome to the problems....
9
As kids we were exposed to both maternal and paternal relatives equally, with equal fondness and affection. Perhaps our parents who grew up in tough times, having lost their own fathers very early in their lives, and deprived of paternal relatives, saw the wisdom and appreciation in exposing us to both sides, without partiality or preference. For instance, in couple weeks, I have a cousin from my mom side visiting us, at the same time a cousin from my dad's side.
Perhaps that is the reason our kids now also love their grandparents equally. Having lost their grandfathers back to back, they have shifted their affection towards their grandmothers, on both sides. They are similarly fond of cousins from both sides and maintain kinship with them, on their own, without our pushing them.
6
The grandmother who feels scoffed seems to not have had much of a relationship with the couple before the baby arrived. And then she MOVED to be nearby? Her expectations were a bit far-fetched.
35
The assumption is the man works and the woman sit around eating bon bons plotting how to make her mil miserable. Misogyny.
10
That was not the "assumption" of the article at all.
This ridiculous claim of misogyny does disservice to the very real misogyny we witness in our world every day.
6
It is the overt assumption of some of these comments.
It is also more subtly in the article.
2
As the daughter-in-law, I have had the very opposite experience. My husband's mother has been the most caring, welcoming and selfless person since we have been together, and when it came time for grandchildren, she had already established herself as someone I could count on to be there for us. There was no awkwardness, no misunderstandings or impositions because the close relationship was already there. I recognize that my MIL is an exceptional person, but being the mother of 2 boys myself, I plan to follow her lead.
34
I’ve had the same experience. Based on the comments here, I think we’re both very lucky. My MIL watches our two children weekly, essentially living with us for a few days each week. My children adore her & we get along so well—I love her dearly. Luckily, my own mother is also a part of my life & my children’s lives. She just lives farther away, so visits are less frequent.
I think a lot of the angst comes from building up the married couple & nuclear family as an independent, self-sufficient entity. When everyone can let go of the expectations that are piled onto such a small, contained unit, even just a little bit, it’s far easier to let others into your family life. It’s not easy. Even though we get on well now, I had to work on letting go of the small differences (annoyances?) that come with letting someone in. Most of those differences ultimately don’t matter & it really is not worth sweating the small stuff.
7
This article seems awfully focused on white, middle and upper-middle class folks.
8
I don't recall that the races or incomes of the people mentioned in the article being reported at all.
19
It is true that the common experience for families of different cultures in the US (Asian-American, African-American, Latino-American) would probably be significantly different from the anecdotes in this article.
3
Which is strange, because that's definitely not The New York Times' readership demographic.
1
My wife doesn't like (well hates) my mom, so my parents see the grandkids only a couple of times a year. It's not that I don't try, but my wife won't allow my mom to our house, nor will she let the kids go to their house without me. She thinks there's no reason for my kids to meet their grandmom, because she thinks grandmom is stupid. I really don't understand this and it's been constant argument for the last several years. we have tried therapy etc but my wife won't budge, she doesn't like my mom and won't let her to be with the kids. I'm allowed to take kids there for a couple of days a year. And my mom is not crazy, she doesn't use drugs, nor is she alcoholic or dangerous... But my wife thinks that my mom doesn't respect her as a mom and would like to "own" the kids...
9
Tom,
Your wife “allows you” to do things?
That is a bigger marriage problem than anything to do with grandparents.
This is the whole problem with the construct of the issue. Dads must be able to effectively do emotional labor. That includes dealing with inlaws. That also includes not being passive if the wife is being unreasonable.
21
You hold the key to the prison your wife has put you in.
You are a coequal parent, with a coequal voice. She doesn't "let" you take the kids and drop them off with your mom occasionally? Your marriage needs a major paradigm shift.
They are your kids. Your mother is your mother. Her alleged "stupidity" is no reason your children should be prevented from having an independent relationship with your mother. Tell this to your wife, and mean it, and act on it.
It can take a while for the rules of a marriage to change, but it is possible. I have experienced it personally.
9
Your wife sounds like the one with the issues to work on...not your mom. It's a tough situation and will not get magically better with you taking an aggressive stance with you wife. Maybe you could suggest a third party. of your wifes choosing, go with your mom when she sees the kids to help interpret, intervene, soften and assist with communication.
4
It was apalling for me to witness the negativity my own (now deceased) mother expressed toward and about my brother's wife, particularly in the area of her role as a mother. It was only natural that my sister-in-law and brother drew away from my mother over time. All of this was very bad for the structural integrity of the extended family, as my mother expected me to exhibit "loyalty" to her perspective, which I refused to do. In addition, the retreat of my brother and his wife left me more or less on my own to deal with assisting my mother as she grew old and impaired.
I believe that it is usually down to the mother-in-law, how things go after the daughter-in-law has children. My own mother-in-law, who did not seem to be particularly crazy about me during my courtship with and marriage to her adored only child, did a 180 after I had my first baby. Her love for the child was clearly unconditional, and she began to praise me in ways I never would have expected during the preceding years.
Grandmothers, act positive, even if that posture does not reflect your actual feelings! Your time to make parenting decisions has passed. Now, if you want a role, that role must be to spread sunshine and offer flexible support, not judgment.
64
Having listened (and hopefully learned) to horror tales from many friends about mothers in law of sons, I immediately identified the problem in your supposed sad tale listed as example 1. Unless there are details missing, the MIL on her own iniatives up and moved near to the young family assuming she'd be evening babysitter with a daughter in law she didn't know well......what in the heck was she thinking? I know someone who said "I used to be so close to my sons girlfriends but after they got married they grew distant. But that's ok- I snap my fingers and the sons come running". Uhhhh, Houston, I've identified your problem. And don't get me started on the MIL who accused the DIL of killing the father because he had a fatal heart attack after the DIL refused to travel to them a week after giving birth. I have two sons and I try hard to learn from these tales that you don't own your boys.
13
As a young wife and mother, I made it a point to have my children spend as much time with my husband's parents as with my own. My in-laws had no toys or activities for any of the grandchildren; no cribs, playpens or highchairs. We were all (7 siblings and spouses) told early on that they would love to see the kids, but when the parents left, so would the children. Absolutely no overnight stays. Despite my adherence to their wishes (and never a complaint from me about their not visiting the children in our home), my mother-in-law - years later - remarked to a friend, in my grown daughter's presence, that it was nice to finally get to know my daughter; that none of her sons' wives had been open to her and her husband's being part of the grandkids' lives. And "...thank God for her daughters" who were "not like her daughters-in-law."
8
Two points:
One, I can understand why the parents of seven grown children might feel a bit too burned out to play a hands-on role with young grandkids, and I respect that your in-laws were clear about their boundaries.
Two, it's better to express your feelings and the reasons for them than to sit and stew while someone launches an unfair attack upon you. If you allow somebody to criticize you in an unjustified manner without mounting a civil but substantive defense, you are disserving yourself, your critic, and any authentic relationship you hope to have with that person. It was your mother-in-law's right to maintain the boundaries she had, and it is your right not to let her self-servingly revisionist history go unchallenged.
12
I don't understand it at all. Having as many kids as they did was their choice; it seems unfair to their children's children to use that as an excuse. Do you also feel it was understandable that there was no equipment for the day visits we made? They lived anywhere from 3 hours to a two-day drive from their children: again, their choice. Many of us tried to have them move closer so we could help when they got older. No dice; they would not budge. They were the two most rigid people I have ever known, and their way was always the right way. Finally, I wasn't there when my M-I-L lied about her history with her sons' children, and my daughter was too shocked and hurt to speak. But my daughter did not DESERVE the lie just because she didn't speak up.
2
Your son is your son until he gets him a wife, your daughters your daughter all of your life.
5
My father was one of 4 boys, no sisters. My paternal grandmother was very warm & welcoming to her 4 daughters-in-law, and my Dad & his brothers were extremely devoted to their mother until the day she died. So, not all sons drift from their Mom once they marry. I too am fortunate to have a married son who continues to seek out and value our private time together. Add to that, his wife and I get along splendidly. I have to think that not butting into their marriage and parenting helps a great deal.
9
Just because it rhymes doesn't make it true.
3
When my MIL complained to me that her daughter was having a 4th baby, her words were along the line of “she’s crazy! What is she thinking now that the 3rd is out of diapers... she can’t go back to work now.” Fast forward a few years and she now keeps asking me after having 3 children, “are you having another child? Could you be pregnant now? are you sure you are not pregnant? Maybe you should quit your job and stay at home.” I work full time as a physician and she calls me for medical advice. Needless to say after asking me to quit my job, I stopped my weekly calls to her as a dutiful DIL.
8
she may in fact need a physician
(not you, of course)
1
I have four grandchildren that I love dearly. All of these children live less than 30 minutes from my home. I see two of those children at least weekly and am welcome to drop into their home at any time. I take them places. They wear me out (and I'm so glad that they do). The other two--I don't even see them when I'm asked to babysit: they're always in bed by the time I get there. When I call to ask if I can drop by, they are usually busy. The few times I've been able to see them, it's more like an appointment than getting together. I'm always welcome with my daughter's grandchildren. My son's: their emergency contact (in school records) is her mother--who lives more than two hours away. And when I mentioned that I would be happy to be a contact, my son spent an hour lecturing me about how these children are the only grandchildren of his wife's parents. I love all four of these children. They are the lights of my life. But I miss miss miss the two little ones who don't wear me out because I rarely see them.
11
I simply don't care for my mother-in-law's approach to raising children--to hear her talk about it, I don't know why she has three children. She likes to be right and gives me scary advice all the time, which basically amounts to ignoring the child. My husband agrees that she was not a very affectionate mother. She thinks my own family's more attentive approach is ridiculous, and never misses a chance to say so. So obviously I don't ever ask her for advice, and I don't want her babysitting my children. I would recommend that all MILs just refrain from giving childcare or housekeeping advice unless directly asked, or if there's something truly wrong.
11
Are we married to brothers and don't know it? Sounds JUST like my husbands mother.
2
This is not so much about daughters or sons but about paternal grandparents asserting their rights and preferences. Mother in laws can either be too pushy or too passive. There is a happy middle ground.
3
Grandparents have "rights"? Right there, I think that's a problematic attitude.
11
Let's be honest: many mothers-in-law are judging and criticizing everything the wife does, even if not always to her face. Many think no one is good enough for their precious son. When it's your own mother, she loves you so doesn't judge every action, and if she is critical, it's a safe relationship and you can ignore her without damaging it.
19
My wife and I have an absolutely terrific DIL. Here's why we think so. First, she is deeply in love with our son and is totally supportive of him, which isn't always easy so she has our undying love for that. Second, our DIL is a wonderful loving mother to our grandson and we see the truth of that in many ways so she has our undying love for that. Those are the two most important things she could possibly do for us. Moreover, our DIL is always talking us up to our grandson so that we stay in the forefront of his two year old mind, really important because we live 1500 miles away and only get to visit about 6 times a year in person (we do try to FaceTime once a week). When we are together our DIL treats us like part of their family so we just pitch in and participate, which makes us very happy.
Here's what we do and don't do. We have few expectations but always try for a loving respectful relationship. We never offer advice unless it's specifically asked for. We truly appreciate everything our DIL does for us directly or indirectly because we know not every relationship is as good or rewarding as ours. We often tell her that we love her as we do to our children because we do love her - she is one of ours now. Lastly, we think our DIL's parents are terrific too and we never try to compare relationships.
91
I have one daughter-in-law and I praise whoever tied her tubes that she cannot have children. That sounds awful but it is the kindest outcome I could have hoped for, short of my son becoming a young widower
5
And people wonder why...
20
I hope expressing that made you feel better, because it sure made me feel worse.
31
The more good grandparents, the better! My daughter is incredibly lucky to have four grandparents who love her dearly, and I do all I can to encourage all of these relationships.
7
I learned how to mother from my mother. After my sons were born I was much more comfortable with her help because I knew what to expect - she was the one who taught me how to do it, after all. My mother-in-law loves our family but can be a challenging personality. She gets upset if my husband doesn't call often enough and will call and yell at him, instead of taking the onus to reach out on her own. It's silly and hurtful and doesn't make us want to call or visit more. I've taken the attitude that I will always be as helpful and kind as I can to my mother-in-law, but my husband shouldn't expect us to be friends. I love her - and I love my mom - but they aren't my sisters.
11
My parents have passed. All the extended family is overseas. I am grateful for any and all time my in-laws spend with our young children. They are not well enough to babysit but just their presence is important. I don't have a super close relationship with them but that is not the priority. My children's happiness is. If my mother were alive she would probably be more involved but only because she would have been a younger grandmother. Sometimes age plays a part, sometimes distance. But, according to many of my friends, sometimes the grandparents play favorites too. Or they are truly dysfunctional. The next article should be about daughter-in-laws that put up with difficult in-law grandparents for their children's sake.
10
My wife thinks she is a good grandmother for our daughter, whom I'll call "Mary" and her family but our daughter does not share that opinion.
We live half the country apart, us in Texas and "Mary", her husband and their young son in New England. When our grandson was born, my wife and I took separate visits to help "Mary" cope with the new baby. That is where the problems began: in "Mary's" words, "All Mom wanted to do was to hold the baby all day." No help with any work around their home such as cooking, cleaning or shopping. Going out anywhere was another problem due to my wife's age, diabetes and overweight condition causing her to move slowly with ongoing complaints.
I visited a couple of weeks later and saw that "Mary" was becoming overwhelmed and fatigued with her role as a new mother who was actively breast feeding her baby every two to three hours. I made it my job to help by taking over the house cleaning chores and cooking meals. When my new grandson was awake and "Mary" needed to sleep, I held and played with him so "Mary" could get more rest. In other words, I was much more aware of our daughter's needs than was my wife.
I wonder if the maternal grandmothers who have issues with their daughters after a new grandchild is born have failed to take notice of their daughter's emotional and physical needs during this time. .
32
What's really surprising here? That this is surprising. There's an old saying "a son until wife, a daughter for life". Obviously there are as many variations on this theme as there are marriages, but anyone from a traditional family dynamic who is surprised by this hasn't spent much time observing what's going on around them.
6
I learned a lot watching my own late mother relate to her two daughters-in-law. I have two married brothers, and 3 married sisters. My mother NEVER criticized or interfered with my sisters-in-law parenting. NEVER. She also often complimented them. Subsequently they always felt good about themselves when they were around my Mom. Now, this is not to say that my Mom didn't see things that she thought were odd or mismanaged. She did. But, my Mom had the wisdom to share those observations only with my Dad or with her own daughters. So, she got to vent, but by being non judgmental toward her daughters-I -law, she got on-going and welcome access to her grandchildren. I now do the same thing with my own daughter-in-law. I added one more layer too. I compliment my son's parenting often. Don't we all gravitate toward people who make us feel good about ourself?
46
I have seen all these dynamics at work in my extended family. It is quite natural that young mothers are more comfortable with their own mothers than with their in-laws, and yes, the wife is usually the one who maintains relationships with both sides.
All that said, I am absolutely determined to be a "good" mother-in-law and grandmother to my future daughter-in-law and grandchildren. I am reading this article, and the comments, in order to glean tips on how to do so. Any help appreciated, and thanks for the article.
10
Okay, as the mother of a son who is but nineteen years old, so this is (hopefully) a long way off for me, I found this piece really depressing. My personal experience is unique, in that my mother died before I married, and we had our son - and only child - late in life, when my father, and my husband's parents, were already quite elderly. So there was only one grandma (now deceased), who was not the interfering type, and we had a good relationship. I am very close to my son, and I love kids, so, hopefully, in some far-off future, I'll get to hang out with a grandchild or two - daughter-in-law willing.
5
Sheesh! You'd think these daughters and sons would welcome all the help they could get. Both sets of grandparents to my daughter are a plane ride away. If I had either locally, I would be extremely grateful, whether it was the maternal or the paternal set.
7
Did the mother in law that was rejected consult with her family before she moved? Seems like she made some major assumptions.
22
This is the case in my mother’s life. Even when my brother, his wife & their son lived with my mother in her house if the relationship with sister-in-law was not just right (I.e. fulfilling her needs) my mom was kept away from grandson. Although my relationship with mom has always been difficult she sees my children daily.
2
As a husband, father and son, and as other readers have noted, I am the one who is discouraging too many interactions between my children and my parents, as my main problem is my relationship with my own father. It is complicated and I try therefore to avoid too many interactions.
(The risk of replicating the same kind of strained relationship between my sons and myself truly haunts me and that's where I put all my energy.)
12
Why anyone would turn down free childcare support is beyond me. I have a two year old and welcome all the help we can get. Thankfully, I love my in-laws who are much better with my child than my parents at this stage.
9
Not all childcare is quality. Just because someone is family doesn't mean they won't do unsafe things or countermand the parents.
15
Why would anyone turn down free childcare? You answered your own question when you said your inlaws are great. That’s not always the case.
12
Because it only appears to be free, but is actually quite costly.
5
I have to comment! My experience as both a MIL to 3 women & Nana, to their combined 8 children, has been absolutely wonderful in every way! My DILs are each loving, thoughtful & accomplished women! Both my husband & I have be been invited to participate in many ways & at many times with their families. I extraordinarily blessed, I realize. They come from varied backgrounds and bring a renewing richness to our family. I cannot imagine life without them. And same goes for my SIL! I am a most happy MIL!
19
Interviewing the next generation might have been helpful here.
My parents and my husband's parents are all disappointed about how little they see the grandkids. In turn, we are disappointed by how burdensome every visit seems to be, and struggle to fit the unhelpful into our lives with two jobs and school.
None of them view their visits as the opposite of helpful.
Bubbe, glad it is working for ya. Check in periodically and make sure that your "help" isn't just a gift they gave you.
53
This piece does not bear out my experience or that of two close friends. As a maternal gram, I do see my one grandchild a lot more than his other grandparents, but that is more of a choice on the part of one set and geography on the part of another. My son-in-law is like a second child to us and, I believe, loves us like a so . I have two friends who have sons with young families. In both cases the sons’ mothers are the ones most engaged with the grandchildren and that was the choice of the kids’ parents.
3
At my baby shower, my MIL turned to my mother and said, "When my daughters have babies, it will be more meaningful to me than my sons' children." I pretended not to hear, but my pregnant sister-in-law seated nearby visibly reacted as did my mother.
25
Good she put it out there early. I will give her that.
7
My paternal grandmother was always lukewarm toward my brother and I while doting on all my aunts' kids. She said we were too unruly for her to babysit and she would "forget" our birthdays. When we grew up and did well for ourselves, and our cousins didn't fair so well, she was suddenly dying to show us off to all her lady friends. We were having none of that.
7
OMG, what a thing to say! I wonder what your mother thought (but probably was too polite to say) when she heard that. Your MIL is missing the tact gene.
I feel very lucky to have a close relationship with both sets of grandparents but also know that I contribute greatly to ensure a harmonious family.
As background, growing up my sister and I had almost no family near us and both decided to ensure the paternal Grandparents were just as involved and hands-on and close with our kids as maternal. For both of us, it’s a conscious choice and our families are better for it. I want my kids to have loving close grandparents - those relationships are precious and we are all better for it.
tip: a lot of what I read in comments and in the article seems to relate back in babies. We’ve experienced, now with older kids, the relationships have ebbed and flowed based on age of the child. Paternal grandparents weren’t as comfortable with infants but are spectacular with old children. As parents, we just kept inviting them to our home, on vacations and would visit all grandparents to ensure our kids would benefit from a tight bond.
15
I believe that my place as a grandmother depends mostly on the relationships I have with my sons. They love me and love each other very much. My husband passed away six years ago which made us value family ties even more. My daughter in law (one son is still single) knew before they got married how close we are and she's happy about it. I don't interfere in their way of doing things with their children, I only add on to it. Since both parents work with a baby and a toddler in day care they are very happy to catch up on sleep and let me have my time with the kids when they come to stay in my country house. I will cancel almost anything to jump in when I'm needed like when the kids are sick or when day care is on strike (this is France). And my single son who lives in the US doesn't miss a chance to fly to Paris to see his nephews and keep in touch with them through FaceTime. I make sure not to be invasive. My daughter in law asked me recently if they could come spend a week in the country in May. I very seriously asked if I was invited - I always told them they could go with friends if they wanted. She just laughed. I know when the kids will grow up they will travel more but I'm sure I will always be part of their lives.
18
My children see my in-laws more frequently, due to my own folks living overseas. But as far as who I’m more close to, it is absolutely my own mother. My own mother has never waltzed I to my house unannounced and then criticised the housekeeping, nor would this ever occur to her to be appropriate to do. She never tells my children they can have yet another junk food snack, or that she “never sees them”, when in fact, she saw them just last week.
My mother-in-law is a hands-on grandmother now, which is great. But she used to be a pushy control freak. Her adult son in his mid-thirties was an extension of herself, and when he tried to speak up about having boundaries, she told him at the time that he was being “disrespectful”, and then told him he’d changed since he met me. For a long time, she could not handle the idea that my husband and might want to run our house our own way.
She’s mellowed a lot since I first met her, but some things don’t change. Her teenage granddaughters are pushing away from her. Because they feel constantly criticised and rarely listened to. Despite the distance, my 12 year-old truly looks forward to spending time with my mum. This is not my fault!
34
“And the sons don’t stick up for their mothers;”.
My husband had a difficult relationship with his parents. They were both functioning alcoholics and when he did not stay in touch with them I was, of course, viewed as the problem. But the decision to limit our interactions with my in laws was very much shared by the two of us. I wasn’t going to overrule my husbands preference for distance and they were so unkind to me I had no motivation at all to include them more than I had to when it came to our children. They’ve since passed away and as much as I tried to put up a neutral front for the kids sake, my mother wasn’t so generous. My kids told me when they were older that she had been saying nasty things about me when she was with them. It can be just self protection on the daughter in law’s part ..
13
Oops mother should read mother in law
3
Wow - so much to unpack here.
Yes, women are more likely to feel comfortable talking to and getting advice from their own mothers. Why is this surprising? I don't expect my husband to ask my father about "guy stuff" the way he would his own father.
And yes, it's unfair to burden working women, many of us who work equal or longer hours than our husbands, with sole responsibility for kin-keeping. Again, seems kind of common sense that each of us is responsible for keeping our own parents in the loop, no?
Finally, the relationship with parental grandparents doesn't start when the child is born. It's a continuation of the existing relationship with DIL from the first meeting. How do MILs expect to have a good relationship with grandkids if they haven't had a good relationship with DILs prior to the birth?
I feel for the grandma's that "suddenly" find themselves iced out, but I have to wonder, if "suddenly" is as sudden as they claim.
After all, I'm not seeing a lot of comments about truly sudden behavior changes following birth (e.g., post-partum depression).
Instead, what I'm seeing here leads me to believe many of these grandmas are merely reaping what they've sown. No new mother is going to turn down a genuine offer of help, but they will turn down unsolicited advice, unhelpful "help", unrealistic demands, and judgmental behaviors.
Maybe the lesson here is that these MILs need to examine their behaviors from the start and build those bridges early.
176
My MIL made it clear to my husband she and FIL bitterly resented him starting a family of his own (while I was in the hospital being induced for late labor). It all went downhill from there. Bitterly resented us buying our own home, etc. - did everything they could to talk him out of it. My husband was ready to open his heart and his home to them with the arrival of a new baby. It could have been a fresh start. Instead, it ended up only confirming his original reasons for wanting to get away from them to begin with.
3
@person what did they expect him to do with his life (that they were able to articulate)?
It's the mom of the family who plans the vacations and kids schedules more. And yes, even in families where both parents work!
Even when I worked crazy hours at Goldman Sachs, I was still the one using my spare time to research vacations etc. between the two of us.
My husband is a great dad - he would pick up and drop off at day care, get up middle of the night, feed etc. But more specific dedicated tasks, not general organizing. There have been many articles how even in both working parents, where chores divided up equally, the mental load of organizing what needs to be done still often lies on the mom.
That said, we live 6 hr flight away from my parents and 12 hrs flight away from his. We try to visit both once a year (mine sometimes twice), but mine also come to visit us more often. Only during childbirth - I only wanted my mom and sister there (not even my dad, and definitely no in laws). But we welcomed them couple of months later :-). Everyday adds up eg I make it a point to call on Skype my family with my little sons every Saturday morning. While my husband Skypes with kids and his family ~ once a month. They are more structured - almost an appointment to call them. So maybe part of my close relationship to mine vs slightly distant relationship of him to his parents is the reason. It should be the son organizing his family, not the daughter in law. No gatekeeping here, just sparsity of time: full time work, toddler and infant in "free time" and occasionally sleep haha
25
You enlightened me about something I had not named or carefully identified, but which is true in my household, too (we both work and have one toddler, live away from both sets of parents). "More specific dedicated tasks, not general organizing," is what I take care of, too. Swim lessons. Overall daycare locating. Vacations . . . with HIS family!
And, I am less able to also manage staying connected to his family and want him to take that on, himself.
6
Wow, you really hit the nail on the head about general organizing. My wife and I both work and do a pretty good job splitting up household/domestic responsibilities, to the point that my mother marvels about all I do compared to what my father did. However, if it was up to me to schedule doctor's appointments, haircuts, make sure the Valentine's boxes are done for school, etc and on and on,my kids would be out of luck. It's a weight I wouldn't want to carry and thanks for reminding me to thank my wife for all the little things she does with almost no recognition.
38
Ryan--all of us who do this thank you for just saying this! So often it goes unrecognized!
3
I'm surprised at how little discussion there has been here of child-rearing practices and assumptions and their influence on the role grandparents (especially grandmothers) are invited or allowed to play in their grandchildren's lives. All other things being equal (and they seldom are) a woman who has a comfortable relationship with her mother, who had a happy childhood, etc. will, consciously or unconsciously, follow the same child-rearing practices as her mother and will find it easy to have her mother care for the children because she knows what to expect. Of course it will be more difficult if her mother-in-law has different ideas about discipline, food, chores, acceptable behavior, etc. A great deal can be taken for granted between a mother and daughter that has to be learned and/or explicitly agreed on between a mother-in-law and daughter-in-law.
36
I am stunned by the general tenor of remarks. Did readers miss the research results on which the article is based? Do commenters believe this research to be incorrect? Or is it just rampant defensiveness that has commenters projecting out into the world of others what they prefer the research to say?
Yet, so many comments seek to justify all kinds of meanness without regard to the fact that a healthy family should be a coherent unit both for the benefit of spouse and children--and for both sets of grandparents.
If the husband is a cardiologist and puts in 18 hour days, does it somehow remain his job to also set up plans for his kids to see his parents personally or arrange Skype phone calls? If the same selfish description of family that declares that it is the genetic child's sole responsibility to set up grandparent connections, is it also the responsibility of the genetic breadwinner to spend all the money he earns on himself?
Also, there's a naivete to these comments since, as anyone knows, different parents have different emphases in what they do. It also ignores the possibility that a daughter-in-law may have ulterior motives that lead her to undermine her husband’s parental connection when she could do otherwise. When I was teaching in another state and my mother was dying of cancer, I had the good fortune to have a wife who took care of my mother and didn't say: "you do it, she's your mother." This proved not only her empathy for my mother but her love for me.
25
Here is a quote from some of the research cited in the article.
“Thus, matrilineal advantage in grandchild–grandparent relations reflects lineage differentials in relations between parents and grandparents. Mothers and fathers in the middle generation are likely to have a "parental" bias, having closer ties to their own parents than to their parents-in-law. Consequently, their children—the grandchild generation—are likely to have unequal relations with the grandparent generation. Closer ties between mothers and maternal grandparents facilitate warmer ties between grandchildren and the maternal side, whereas better relations between fathers and paternal grandparents create a patrilineal advantage.”
Note fathers have agency for better relations to bring in HIS parents.
Last paragraph again.
“Closer ties between mother and maternal grandparents facilitate warmer ties between grandchildren and the maternal side, whereas better relations between fathers and paternal grandparents create a patrilineal advantage.”
5
I am stunned that so many comments think it’s the daughter in law’s responsibility to maintain relationships with both sets of grandparents.
Couples can divide responsibilities in many ways. Some women are the main source of income and work 18 hours. The work arrangement doesn’t change the starting point.
The whole point is to START knowing that each person is responsible for maintaining relationships with their family of origin. Start there.
If it works to reallocate that to the other spouse it should be discussed and AGREED to by both. Not assumed because of gender roles to fall to the female. It should work for both people.
If EITHER spouse is behaving badly towards the other’s parents it should be addressed. Not just taking the old adage that is descriptive and prescriptive about losing your son when he takes a wife.
A son doesn’t HAVE to be lost when he gets married. That is in the son’s hands. We have to stop holding daughter in laws responsible for a husband’s choices.
It is not normal to think that men don’t do kinkeepjng. It IS their responsibility as much as the woman’s.
It we don’t change thus mindset the problem continues each generation.
27
My sister is a victim of stiff-arming. Her son, finishing the final years of his medical training, is always “too busy,” and her DIL never got the memo that she could pick up the phone now and then. My sister is loud, bossy and yells a little too much, but she is not a toxic person. She is also smart, warm, funny and absolutely would be a key brick in the children’s’ foundations. I no longer ever ask her how her grandkids are doing because I’ve come to realize that she actually doesn’t know. So it pains her if I ask. We weren’t raised this way (we saw both sets of grandparents often) and frankly I don’t understand it.
9
A daughter’s a daughter for all of her life. A son’s a son till he takes a wife.
18
How does this dynamic play out in same-sex relationships?
17
I can't stand this type of articles based completely on anecdotal evidence. Unless you can give show us some scientifically acquired data on whether maternal grandparents spend more time with grandchildren than paternal grandparents, please spare us these stories. They do no one any good.
15
Reading the article and commenting on it seems to have been cathartic for a significant number of readers.
4
My mother in law moved close by when my daughter was born, relocating three blocks away. My husband is her only child. I would have welcomed more direct involvement, but she just wasn't that kind of grandmother. She did babysit our children for a few hours every three or four weeks, so we could go out to a movie or to dinner. I had imagined her offering to have my daughter come over for a weekly after-school visit -- her place was one block away from the elementary school my daughter, and then son, attended. Never happened. She had various health issues over the years, and that played a part. I also didn't feel I could ask her since she wasn't my parent, and my husband has a peculiar relationship with her -- I have to remind him to call her because he can let weeks go by. She doesn't call us; I think she expects to be called. We live far from my family of origin and only travel to see them once a year or so, but if my mom was closer I would have felt more comfortable asking. As it is, my children who are now teens have not spent a lot of time with any of their grandparents.
So yes, I think it's easier for maternal grandparents to see more of their grandkids, because there's less worry about stepping on each other's toes. But I will certainly offer more help if I have grandkids one day -- whether for my daughter's family or my son's.
10
I could have written this myself. 100% same experience w my mother in law. To me, seems like she has little to no interest in my kids, but is very involved in the lives of my sister in law’s children. It’s frustrating.
2
It isn't always the daughter in law who keeps the grandparents away. I love my in-laws. They are wonderful people, kind, funny and doting. But they visit their daughter and her children constantly, almost weekly. I live closer but the seldom come here, even though invited. If there's an event in each household the will always chose their daughter's children. All the grandchildren notice the preference.
12
It seems awfully nervy of the mentioned grandmother who up and relocated close to a couple with a new baby, uninvited, expecting to insert herself into a fledgling family. Especially since there was no close relationship with the new mother. As a new mother myself 35 years ago, that’s the worst scenario I could have imagined! What is it with some people?
81
@JustCurious:
I find your comment a bit mean-spirited. It sounds like the MIL simply wanted to be closer to her grandchild and play a role in his life. Perhaps she did or didn’t discuss that in advance with the new parents. We don’t know that information.
From her comment, it sounds to me like her intentions were sincere and her heart was in the right place.
14
I didn't find the comment mean spirited. When I read it, what came to my mind was "boy, there is more going on here than she tells her friend" and "moves across country twice --too much drama for me!"
I certainly feel bad for that grandmother, who never seems to get what she is hoping for.
15
As a mother, with a mother and father in law, I say, this advantage is just obvious. It’s nothing sinister- I think it has to do with the fact that more women are home with the kids than men, and women tend to be closer to their moms. Even if a man stays home with the kids he’s not likely to spend hours on the phone “chatting” with mom or seeking advice, or hanging out. Further, it’s just natural that a woman is closer and more comfortable with her own family than her husband’s. I have a great relationship with my in laws- actually, they now live in their own apartment in our basement. Yet, arguably my kids are still “closer” to my parents who live 200 miles away, because I am an at-home mom and am very close to my mom, who has been invited to share more intimately than my mother-in-law in births, every birthday and milestone, etc, not just for the sake of the kids but for my sake (based on our relationship) as well! Relations with the in laws, no matter how familiar and friendly, remain a bit more formal. There are lines you just don’t cross with in-laws and everyone knows it! My mom has expressed that when she visits my brother’s kids, she does stress more about pleasing their mom (her daughter-in-law), not overstaying her welcome, etc.. Again, good relationship, just not as relaxed. So yes, the maternal grandparent advantage exists!
20
Reading this, I'm so grateful for my mother-in-law. My own mother had little interest in being a grandmother, so when my daughter was born, I was more than happy to have the help and support of my husband's mother. Over the years (almost 32!), she and my daughter have forged and maintained a strong and loving bond—one that helped compensate for her own thwarted desire to have a girl—and I've had the kind of motherly support that had always been lacking in my life. Both my daughter and I are very lucky!
53
This article is not giving enough attention to the looming problem of the unevenly divided “emotional and logistical workload” of the family. Women are gatekeepers of everything, maintaining relationships with both family and friends, organizing and keeping track of everything. It’s a lot of work! Unrecognized and often unshared by the husband. If he wants the kids to have a relationship with his parents, it’s all on him to make it happen. I have enough to do as it is. I will not initiate anything. His parents live in another state; mine - on another continent. And yet, mine have seen the kids more often, both in person and on Skype, and are very close with them. We talk on Skype every week for at least an hour. They are in photos on the walls and in albums that we look at often. We talk about them and make up songs about them. I make huge efforts to pass down their culture and language, too - music, dance, food, folklore. My kids speak the language fluently and if they could articulate it at this age, would probably identify with my culture more.
My husband, on the other hand, doesn’t place this kind of importance on any of that. The kids talk to his parents a couple times a year, and don’t know much about them. He’s a great dad otherwise, he just doesn’t care to do this kind of work.
It’s not about the controlling mom. It’s about the uninterested dad. In our culture and time, this is just how men are, even when they are perfectly close with their parents.
135
Your defense reminds me of the character in a courtroom drama who "reveals" that he is the guilty one, even as he thinks he's testifying favorably for himself. Sounds like your husband works and you sit around favoring your own family and not involving his, yet blaming him for it. Do you realize that your piece proves the point of the article? Unfortunately, narcissism never realizes itself and is so destructive--and unfair to others, including your husband and your children.
20
“Sounds like your husband works and you sit around” .
There is nothing to indicate that in DH’s comment. It isn’t 1950. Perhaps DH does work outside the home plus handles all the familial administration she describes and for that reason doesn’t feel the need to push her in-laws on her kids when her husband doesn’t care.
35
GED,
Where in her comment do you get that she doesn’t work and sits around while her husband works? Even if she doesn’t work outside the home, why does it even matter? I think she is simply saying her husband does not involve his own family. I find this is true with my husband. He does not make effort to keep in touch with his mother whereas I make the time and effort to involve my parents. It’s just how it works out. For this reason, my son sees my parents much more frequently than my mother in law.
27
I have two daughters who are very close to their paternal grandmother. Part of the reason is because my own parents died long ago, and we have depended on my mother-in-law for child care 1-2 days/week since we first had kids (no coercion involved - my mother-in-law cannot get enough of her two granddaughters). Now that my mother-in-law is in her 80s, I am ever so grateful that she has always been an active part of my daughters' lives since they were babies.
13
If mothers are "gatekeepers", it's only because women shoulder most of the burdens of child-rearing. That includes feeding, dressing, bathing, putting to bed, taking to school, scheduling play dates, and yes, also scheduling family time. Most men are happy to abdicate these responsibilities to their wives. If grandparents feel that the mothers control access to children, it's because mothers are primary caregivers and are responsible for all aspects of the child's life, while the fathers only "help" when asked. If more fathers took an active role in parenting, this would be less of an issue.
59
OK, so Dad is busy working. Does he keep his paycheck for himself because he was the one who earned it? And let's say you're being accurate in declaring his being not as interested as you are in family matters. Does this abdicate for you the responsibility to involve both sides of the family? I'll answer my own question: no, it doesn't. Your response shows a complete lack of empathy for others, including your children despite your idea that you are doing so much for them.
11
Ok Dad AND Mom are busy working full time (sometime unpaid).
It is the biological child’s job to manage their family. That is the key problem with the whole article. It places the focus on the daughter in law and mother in law instead of the son and his mother and father.
Dad can set up a Skype call with his parents. Dad can arrange for his parents to visit. Dad can send photos. Dad can choose to do these things. If he doesn’t that is HIS choice.
And why are grandfathers left out of this conversation? They are equally valuable for a relationship with grandchildren. Dad can arrange for his mom AND dad to spend time with his kids.
Let me repeat. It is the biological child’s job to manage their family.
271
Are you assuming mom doesn’t also work, as well as handle these extra responsibilities?
18
I have two beautiful daughter in laws who are treated like my "daughters". From the beginning my husband and I have not interfered with the way our grandchildren are raised. Our sons are very family oriented but we all are very flexible. There are times, especially around the holidays that we know there may be other family obligations and we understand. Yet may time our extended family gets all together. We see our grandchildren often, we are invited by our daughter in laws on family trips and often I have a girls day with just my daughters in law. The add joy, love and humor to our lives. We know not to interfere as they will be raising their families in their way and that is just fine with us.
39
I wish I had this!
2
oh stop with the bragging, already.
3
I make an effort not shoulder the burden of "kinkeeping" and therefore don't have a close relationship with my MIL. So she can see her grandchild and our family anytime that she arranges it with my husband. He doesn't call as often as his mother likes, which sometimes makes me want pick up the phone. But I resist the urge. The gendered dynamics of our household mean I'd be arranging everything, buying gifts, sending cards, etc if I didn't intentionally leave my husband's family stuff to him. The result is more emotional distance from my in-laws, which is too bad, perhaps. Or perhaps not, as we have less familial acrimony all around.
31
What part does the generation of the in laws and parents play into this conundrum? Did grandparents of the "Greatest Generation" play more direct roles in their grandkids' lives than say Boomers?
This article makes me very sad. I was very close to my mom. She died three years ago. Before she died she saw my son several times a week. I am not close to my mother in law. She is a nice lady and she sees our kids about twice a month. But it isn’t the same as if it were my mom. I have only boys and I am sad that I will one day be the mother in law hoping for time with my grandchildren.
25
Try to set a better example for your sons so that they behave well toward you once it's your turn to be a mother-in-law. Empathy can grow like a beautiful flower, if you give it sun and water.
18
Dear Jen,
I’m so sorry for the loss of your mother. As for your MIL, it’s not too late to turn it around, to forge a closer bond. When I married, my MIL was not deemed warm & fuzzy, even by her own children. She was never like a mother figure to me, I made the effort & we eventually became very close. She was also wonderful to my daughter. When she was dying, it was me she asked to be by her side.
Talk to your mother-in-law about reading this article & tell her you long for a closer relationship.
It’s never too late. All the best.
Melinda
19
Raising a family is hard work. Not everyone can, but if you’re willing and able to help, you’re not likely to be refused. (On the other hand, if you expect to be waited on and entertained, you’re likely to be disappointed.). If you want to spend time with your adult children and their families, you have to be the kind of person they want to spend time with. Keep your advice to yourself. Be flexible. If you see a need, do whatever needs to get done, and do it your children’s way. Make a regular date to spend time with the grandkids, and then be consistent and reliable. I moved near my son and his wife three years ago and I’m happy to say this approach has worked for me. The payoff is in the relationships I have with my grandchildren, who I recently realized are old enough now that they’ll remember me when I’m gone. It made me feel immortal. :)
11
My world and welcome to it.
My grandchild was born into a very loving, very attentive, traditional Chinese family.
My son, after 18 months with his first child still struggles to " share" her with me.
Coming from an Italian American family,
everyone but the postman and the dog - catcher has held me close.
Her maternal grandmother is the babysitter.
If not her, her family.
I am not in the loop here, they prefer family hands down.
I make " dates " with my son, his wife and the baby.
I stop by to spend time with her.
But I've yet to be alone with her.
Never changed a diaper or givin her a bath.
My son says he's working on giving me more independence with my sweet toddler.
I sure hope so.
He'd better ask his mother in law first.
13
Why do you need to be alone with the child? Just enjoy spending time together - you don't need to be the boss.
I don't think anyone aside from my husband gave my children a bath until they were school age. It wasn't needed.
27
Susan, I hear you! My son married a Brazilian who like your Chinese family is large and loving plus there is lots of non English speaking help always around. Leaving this Grandma and Pa outside the perimeter with no role to play! A wise friend of mine told me to march in there and be assertive. After speaking to my son about my intentions, I did & it has worked. The nanny’s have been instructed to let me give the baths, the other MIL used to grab the babies out of my arms ... but she too has stepped back & have learned to share! Try it. Those children need you as much as you need them. Good luck!
8
@Lilly
Good for you! Grandkids grow up so quickly...enjoy them while they are little!
1
I was very lucky. I had a wonderful mother-in-law. She was strong and opinionated and never tired of telling me what she thought in no uncertain terms. But she loved unconditionally. She loved my husband. She loved me. And she loved my children. Both my parents and my in-laws were fairly old when I gave birth, and I never asked them to help, just to love their grandchildren.
My daughter has a wonderful mother-in-law. They have developed a very close relationship over the years. Reading everyone's comments, I wonder whether the fact that she heard me praise her paternal grandmother over the years was a factor in helping a naturally shy person reach out when she got married.
18
I'm blessed to have a wonderful MIL. She's always been very careful not to overstep any boundaries, offer any parenting advice, or overstay her welcome. She's helpful when asked and just wants to spend time with her grandchildren and spoil them. Fine by me. My husband has said in the beginning she was "afraid" of me -- I hope he's kidding! I believe it's more her non-confrontational personality. But we have a great relationship, enjoy each other's company, and she sees my children often...more so than my own parents who are an hour away. It's enough to make own mom a bit jealous.
As a mom to two boys, I'm taking notes so that one day, I too, can be a grandmother who is welcomed by my daughters-in-law.
14
My mother made it clear that she would not provide assistance to me or my brother if we chose to reproduce. Now she doesn't understand why neither of us had kids.
8
Your decision about whether or not to procreate depended on whether or not your mother would provide childcare? If that was really the deciding factor, then you definitely made the right decision.
5
the author goes out of her way to blame the moms for impeding access to children. Among my peers our mother-in-law's are critical, bossy, demeaning and looking to drive a wedge between us and our husbands. These grandmothers' interest is more focused on maintaining a relationship with their sons than their grandchildren.
49
There seems to be a problem here with men distancing themselves from their mothers when they get married. I feel very fortunate that I have a wonderful gay son who has not replaced me with a wife! Why is it that straight men so often cannot establish a loving but appropriate (in the sense of boundaries) adult relationship with their moms? Is there room in their hearts for only one woman at a time? Sad.
13
sounds like a blanket indictment
2
Lol. Of course I want a relationship with my adult sons.
One DIL is threatened by that , one is not.
It’s ridiculous -I want an adult relationship not to be “ mommy “ again .
Lighten up
Another title for this article could be "Mother-in-Law sad she can't have cake and eat it too"
I would venture that only a particular type paternal grandparent gets shafted - those who raise their sons to be "manchildren" for lack of a better word. If their sons never had to worry about emotional labor and "kin-keeping" and other supposedly "female" tasks, then WHY would they suddenly expect their son to start doing that once his child is born? That ship has sailed.
Also, regarding this line: "That is, daughters generally have closer ties to their own parents than to their in-laws, which leads to warmer relationships between their children and the maternal grandparents." - grass is also green. Water is wet. The sky is blue. Why would she not be closer with those who raised her for decades, vs the people who happen to be related to the man she chose to marry?
A lot of these complaints are rooted in selfishness.
164
Because a smart mother recognizes that her children greatly benefit from close ties to both sets of grandparents. In fact our kids benefit from close relationships with any loving, emotionally healthy adults who want to be part of their lives. I was never close to my MIL but I knew that my son needed her love. It wasn’t about me. It was about what he needed. With my MIL long gone, having died early from chronic disease, I am so glad I never said no to her desire to spend time with him. I’d feel guilty and ashamed in hindsight had I selfishly kept her at a distance. Goes double for my FIL too. He was a lovely person and my son adored him/vice versa.
10
A smart mother also knows that what their kids see modeled is what they will carry as a default in their future relationships. It’s not healthy to model a husband not doing kinkeeping because he doesn’t feel like it. Part of being a good mother is not allowing that.
If a mom does kinkeepjng that is her husband’s responsibility because she is the female THAT is what her sons (and daughters) will think is a wife’s role.
That is how this stuff is still a problem in 2018.
I am not saying cutting off inlaws from the kids.
I am saying setting boundaries with the husband to not default to gender role scripts not discussed or agreed to.
If he still won’t do it, get to a marriage therapist. For the sake of our kids and culture we have to change this.
15
100% missed the point. Read Alex Scott's comment below.
1
I have two married sons. Their wives are as almost as close to me as I think a daughter might have been. I love them each. They each sought my company when they married my sons. Their children are as close to me as I ever imagined. Has this taken effort on my part? Of course! Did it take awhile for us to understand one another enough to speak up when needed, when hurt from lack of understanding of what was meant ? Of course.
I am blessed and lucky and could not imagine what could mean more to me than these two families. I know my in-laws and like them. We live in different places entirely so I don't see any of them often enough to call them close friends. But we would be, I am sure, if we were closer.
My relationships with my sons has experienced ups and downs as all relationships do, but they are loving and caring toward me.
Why do I think I am in this position? Well, I am used to working for what I want and my children have always been my anchors. No matter the rest of my life. I have been a teacher much of my life, though I have also worked in other fields. I have lived in and am a citizen of, two different countries. Because of that I have not remained close to my birth family which made probably made keeping close to my own family so very important.
9
It’s so interesting to me, because when I got married, it was a joke among friends that daughters-in-law have a bad wrap. I always had a great relationship with both sets of my own grandparents. So when I married, I decided that when we had children, I would be intentional about allowing all four grandparents to have the same access to their grandchildren. I wanted to ensure that my children have the same opportunity that I did as a child.
Fast forward to having our first baby: my husband received a call 5 days after we came home from the hospital and his parents were upset that they hadn’t yet babysat our daughter. They had visited several times already but they didn’t want time with me and the baby, just the baby. Nobody had yet babysat her! From that day forward, it was like I didn’t exist. My in-laws only want a relationship with my children and not me. We have tried to have conversations with his parents to no avail. Discussions end with my in-laws criticizing our parenting and storming out. It breaks my heart because i want nothing more than to help foster the grandparent to grandchild relationship. Sadly, we don’t trust them like we once did.
Perhaps a mother is eager for her son to find love, in hopes it leads to grandchildren? Somewhere it seems lost on her that the woman your son married doesn’t exist only to have your grandchildren. Respect the parents and the time with your grandchildren will be nurtured. It’s a two-way street.
164
@Rachel H
Blood (grandchildren) is deeper than non blood (you). Especially in some cultures, religions and countries.
I saw the difference between the way my m-i-l treated her son (my husband) and her daughter. When his sister married, she gave them a car. Used, but still. When we got married she gave us a pair of lamps. She favored her daughter's children much more than mine. History repeated itself again when she gave s-i-l's older son a car. Needless to say, my children hardly knew her. Neither one attended her funeral.
6
From my experience watching my mother with my brothers’ families, she is damned if she does and damned if she doesn’t. If she tries to help, she never does anything the “right” way. If she doesn’t try to help, she is “not participating”. Her experience and knowledge and talents (which she would like to pass on to her grandkids) are intimidating to her DIL. I admit she can be difficult at times, but who isn’t?
I can’t blame it all on the DIL. It seems that there is no value in who these women (mothers) are as people, their children just want them to “help out” as in cooking, cleaning and babysitting. These women who raised us can bake, write, play musical instruments, paint, sew, quilt, garden and analyze complex mathematical equations - they are more than just mothers - they are people in their own right. Sons, daughters and in laws need to recognize this. Maybe they can be asked how they would like to participate unless it really is selfishly all about the kids in the end.
37
The majority of reader comments show a defensiveness that suggests sexism is alive and well. Against men.
9
I thought I had built a friendship with my daughter-in-law over their 8 years of marriage. I have always been close to my son. But I was literally pushed away as her due date came closer. My husband, my second son nor I are not only not allowed to see the baby, but we don't even get pictures. We live a half hour away. When I raised my sons, I made sure they knew their grandparents on both sides. I don't understand how these mothers can't even take a day a year to let us see our offspring. Do they know how heartbreaking it is? And what will they do when it happens to them?
15
Maybe your daughter-in-law has post-partum depression. Maybe there is something wrong in their marriage. Maybe your family did something to upset them. I really doubt the issue has anything to do with her mother.
9
There's no evidence in what Janet wrote for you, Shelly, to make the suppositions you make. Therefore, knowing raging narcissism as I do from so much of it that I've seen, I'd say this is YOUR issue, not hers. It's perfectly possible for a daughter-in-law to use the "leverage" of a new baby to push out the husband's parents for no reason other than her own narcissism, which has her trying to re-live her own childhood without wanting the husband's "extra set" of parents around. The idea that the daughter-in-law has a good reason for her behavior and the mother-in-law must have done something wrong, especially given the painful comments by Janet is, well, horrifying on your part and completely lacking in empathy. Shame on you!
6
Every relationship we have, yes every one, has its difficulties and its blessings. As I read comments below from the younger writers, the daughters and daughter-in-laws, I'm struck by the lack of good will, tolerance and understanding too many of them express.
Yes, I have walked in all of these shoes, been the younger intolerant one who now sees more clearly what she didn't realize then, couldn't realize then. I've been the oldest excluded paternal grandparent too. And, yes, each story is particular; generalizations can be weak.
A good friend's mother used to caution my now-older, once-youing generation with her few well-chosen words when our remarks within earshot struck her knowing hearing.
"Just wait," she'd say. That was all. It was enough.
In these later years, I hear her again and know what she was telling, words we couldn't possibly understand then.
They come back as I read the comments below, especially those from DILs
9
Why should DILs be reqired to tolerate unkind, immature grandparents? The grandparents need to stop being intolerable. I'm "just waiting" for that.
I used to believe all the rigamarole about older people being wise. Maybe it was true with respect to The Greatest Generation. They survived the depression and WWII. But so many cosseted, sheltered Baby Boomers come across as selfish, self-centered, and childish. My own children, the oldest of which is 13, often act with more maturity than most of their grandparents (with the exception of my MIL, who is a rare great role model).
25
"I used to believe all the rigamarole about older people being wise. Maybe it was true with respect to The Greatest Generation."
Not necessarily.
I think the adage originally referred to the wisdom one gains in doing tasks (planting/harvesting at the right time, for example), for which a great age would have equaled a great deal of experience.
My mom moved in with us to take care of our son. She was taking care of him since he was born. Now she takes care of him twice a week. My in-laws, have never offered to babysit and they can go months without seeing him. My DH takes our son to see them. They say that our (my) relationship with them is "no problems." Yet, when we ask them to come and see our son, it's "too long a trip" They live in Westchester.
6
This is such an individualized issue that generalizations just don’t hold up. So many factors such as proximity of MILs, prior relationships and number of grandchildren would all come into play. That’s even before you consider personalities and child rearing philosophies. I am sure there are many paternal grandmothers with great relationship to their DILs. It all comes down to having boundaries and respecting them.
27
I find this article to be thoroughly divisive and useless! It is not even journalism. All families have problems, and sometimes MIL and DIL get along and are supportive of each other, and sometimes they cannot work together and have to dance around each other. Why doesn't the NYT devote articles to families that are united, including for the latest series of articles around marital problems! Lately, NYT has been showing a number of anti marriage and anti traditional families articles. How about more articles around unity and support from families to show that we are not all as miserable as your articles suggest!
15
This is an EXCELLENT article & hits the nail right on the head. Young mothers ARE gatekeepers to their children. That's fine for strangers & distant relatives, it's just plain wrong when they use it to fence off their children from their patrilineal grandparents. This needs to be discussed! We don't need nicey nicey stories about perfection & perfect families.
52
Do you seriously not think there is ever a reason to keep grandparents at arm's length?
14
Maybe because those unified and supportive
articles are in the archives of Donna Reed
shows
Perhaps deep down there is a biological instinct to feel more affection for a daughter's child- with your daughter's children you know there is a genetic bloodline, with your son's paternity is not always assured.
7
This article so reminds me of a rhyme my grandmother used to recite, “A son’s a son ‘till he takes a wife, but a daughter’s a daughter for life.”
21
As an old saying has it, "A son is a son until he takes him a wife. A daughter is a daughter for all of her life."
10
I wonder if the mother and daughter bond, extending towards maternal grandparents, exists as strongly when the daughter (not granddaughter) is adopted.
2
My children are now young adults, but when they were small, my MIL gave me the greatest gifts of all: her silence and support. She never failed to tell me what a good mom I was, and never once questioned my judgment. My own mother, who was close to the children from birth, became comfortable listing my faults, openly questioning my decisions, and blaming me for my son being a picky eater at age 10. Guess who I prefer to sit next to at Thanksgiving dinner?
If and when I become a grandmother, I intend to follow my MIL's lead: arrive when invited, leave before I start to stink, and enjoy my own life in between.
300
As a side note, Mama Bear, children who are picky eaters are often super-tasters and/or super-smellers. I was an incredibly picky eater as a child (and am to this day), and I'm both. Many foods are too strong (onions) or too smelly (durian). My rule is "if it doesn't get past my nose, it doesn't go in my mouth." That said, I'm willing to try anything that gets past my nose, and I can think of no foods that I dislike for textural reasons.
6
@MamaBear
Same here...my mother is so critical and negative...I love my MIL whose relationship to this day, is one the relationships I treasure the most.
2
My parents were abusive - major beating and screaming directed at all of their eight children. And my mother professes to be hurt and mystified that she is never asked to babysit - ever. Her kids and grandkids have minimal physical presence in her life, but she still managed to scare them by screaming at my father in their presence.
Your kids don’t want you around their little ones? And maybe they are fine with the other set of grandparents? Please take stock of your parenting.
74
It's partly a FIL thing, for me. My MIL is if anything less overbearing than my own mother. (Actually, that has to be common--a mother has no qualms about telling her own flesh and blood what to do! Mothers in law are much more circumspect.) MIL is in fact great, very helpful, totally respectful. BUT:.... FIL is pretty useless. Kind of deliberately useless. Technically my dad's not a great help either, but he's my dad, so I love him anyway. With FIL, I always end up getting annoyed. And my in-laws are a package deal.
10
If I didn't know better and my FIL wasn't deceased, I would think you were me. My MIL couldn't take more than one grandchild out to eat, because she had to care for FIL like he was a child. In addition, my FIL was kind of controlling, so I wasn't dying for him to spend quality time with my kids on a regular basis. Luckily, my husband & I were on the same page about that.
5
With a full time job and shouldering the majority of household work, there’s little room for kinship building with the in laws. My husband doesn’t have the best of relationships with his mother, so I make all efforts to maintain the relationship. That is limited to setting up monthly visits and calling for major announcements. That’s it. Photo sharing, updates, calls, vacations, none of it happens. I already do that with my family and there’s no room for yet another task on my to-do list. Time for the sons to pick up this ball.
92
Exactly my experience as well.
8
Exactly my thoughts. Daughter in laws that are working full time, managing a household, and keeping their own parents and extended family in the loop somehow are expected to also address the needs of, and communication with, their husband's/partner's family. I gave up a long time ago, after failing on nieces and nephews birthdays, group texts, graduations, photos, planning visits, etc. etc. etc. Most of us are just trying to get from one day full of tasks to the next.
19
I think my story is extreme—but it’s still useful. My mother and I were extremely close and she was overjoyed when my first child was born. But, she often flew cross-country to help my brother and HIS wife with their young children. Why? My mom was a loving person and cultivated a loving relationship with all her children. Things were tense at the beginning with my brother’s wife, but over time that relationship grew and flourished. My MIL was livid when I got pregnant, and she and my FIL were very distant from my husband, me and our kids. Years later, I’m divorced from my husband and they have NOTHING to do with our kids. My daughter earned a full scholarship to a top 10 university when she graduated from high school and they never acknowledged her graduation, scholarship or anything else. At this point they are dead to us. And it’s my ex-husbands fault because He refused to cultivate a relationship with his parents. Not my circus, not my monkeys.
36
good thing circuses are a thing of the past
1
As a working mother who travels often, I feel very lucky to have a mother-in-law who is nearby and willing to help, but it is a relationship that comes less naturally than others. It is a problem of nature and nurture. On the nature side, you don’t share genes yet you both share genes with the child, and both feel invested in the child yet not necessarily in each other. As for nurture, when you are a new mother and figuring out how you want to care for your child, you feel much more comfortable relying on your own mother because you know exactly how she cares for one—she raised you! A mother-in-law has her own, unfamiliar ideas. I think it is very important for an MIL to defer to her DIL, as hard as that can be at times. It builds trust. And both should work on being friends. You both love your kid and a child who knows she has many adults who care for her is going to be more secure!
26
I loved this topic ! The comments are great. This relationship is tricky to navigate and I need all the help I can get as the mother of 2 married sons. My DIL’s & grandchildren are wonderful & we enjoy all their company . We communicate all family matters through our sons, who are very directive to us about what we can and cannot do or say! I do not want to be relied upon to be a day to day babysitter unless there is a problem . Plus its difficult for us to handle 3 children at a time. Since the DIL is not our own daughter, their child rearing approach is different than ours. And, we have been taken to task for our differences even though we raised loving, successful sons. It has kind of thrown a wet blanket on babysitting so it’s better to stand back a bit & enjoy the good parts, holidays, school events and texting the kids directly. Times have changed.
27
I hemorrhaged after our first child was born. My then still working mother flew cross country to take care of me/us for two weeks. After she left, my mother-in-law came. Still weak, I asked her to go to the market to get some basic provisions. She responded that she would stay home with the baby and I should go to the market. Picking up my newborn, I replied that my husband could go to the store when he returned home after work and proceeded to go to our bedroom and close the door.
After having six children of her own, I assumed she would know how to help on someone else’s terms. I was wrong.
264
I'm so sorry to hear that your MIL was insensitive to your needs. You should have kicked her out your house at that point.
17
The heart of the issue to me is offering help that is actually helpful.
I had a similar experience with my MiL after the birth of my son. I was in labor for three days and in the hospital for a few days after the birth; so, our house was in a bit of a state on our return with new baby and the bris was coming up soon. They offered to come up to help. -- Never again. -- I will never forget that weekend and how she insisted on being waited on by me or my husband -- wouldn't make herself her own cup of tea! -- like she was throwing a fit because not enough attention was on her as the new Grandmother and we wanted her to help -- like fold the laundry or wash dishes -- as we struggled to get our footing as brand new parents and my body was unable to take doing all those chores at that moment. She literally walked away from me while she was supposed to be in the middle of boiling bottles to clean them to go read a book in another room. She clearly communicated what her idea of "help" was -- take pictures of the baby and coo while I do all the real work.
I broke down sobbing I was so overwhelmed after my in-laws left and had to call my family (siblings) to help put the place right because we were hosting a bris only days later; so, we could not have the place be unready for guests. My take-away from that weekend (along with other experiences prior to the birth of my son) was not to ask for "too much" like real help in a moment of need, and her son agrees with me. He was there too.
15
In my personal experience, which seems like an outlier, my MIL seems to care for her own well being more that that of her son or grandchildren. She is a baby boomer who makes her own needs more important than that of our family. My husband is an only child, she moved closer to us to be around our first born but she wanted more of social visits—instead of helping she was expecting for me to offer to make her dinner—this stopped immediately when I told her briskly that if she was to come over it would be to help us not the other way around. This is in deep contrast to my mom who spends a few days a week caring for our children and helping keeping order in our home and making our life easier in any way she can. Since I come from a big family there are always celebrations to be had. I used to invite MIL every time but she always had an excuse (mostly pain though she and my mom have similar conditions). I grew tired of her excuses and stopped inviting her and she then asked me to continue inviting her in case she could make it. She’s supposed to come over 2X a week to spend time with our oldest but she cancels half the time and she’s unreliable. My MIL means well and we had an excellent relationship prior to our kids arrival but once I experienced her lack of unconditional love I pulled away. I don’t understand her my husband doesn’t either.
14
LP in LA writes about her MIL, "once I experienced her lack of unconditional love I pulled away. I don’t understand her..."
Dear LP, if you read your own comment, you might see how *very* conditional your love for your MIL is. You are distancing yourself from her because she dares to consider herself to be even more important than--gasp!--you; when you invited her to dinner she initially expected to eat with you rather than do the cooking herself; and she has the temerity to suffer pain though her medical condition is in some ways similar to that of your never-complaining mother.
I suspect your MIL has learned to fear you and your criticisms.
58
I never said my love for her is unconditional. I expected her love to be unconditional for her son and grandchildren like most mothers. She can’t expect the same kind of attention my mother receives if she’s not willing to dole it out. Sounds mean, but I have no time coddle her as I have two young children and the result is she gets left out.
13
Also, I never said I invited her for dinner, She expected me to cook dinner when she came over and I had a 2 week old. Please read my comment closely before responding with incorrect opinions.
3
How about the son??? Why doesn’t he take the kids to see the paternal grandparents? Why does this (too) have to be the mom’s job? I have a wonderful MIL with whom I have a great relationship, still I am am definitely closer to my own mom. I talk more with my MIL than my husband does though. In fact, if it weren’t for me he would not know what’s going on with his own family (parents and siblings). The older I get the more I realize that the less time I have with my own parents so I am definitely prioritizing my relationship with them. I tell my husband that he should do the same, but he won’t listen.
126
My MIL and I work darn hard to keep a good relationship. And, for that matter, so do my husband and his dad. And the same goes for my side of the family.
Strong, resilient family ties are not accidents or luck - they take mutual respect and time and work and listening and a huge ton of patience for all involved. Joining another family is a culture shock - no matter the races or faiths involved. Everyone involved has to put in the effort or it gets real tough, real fast.
174
M in Oregon - I loved your post. I have two grown daughters and one grown son. My oldest daughter has two children. It was easy to develop relationships with them since they were my daughter's children. I knew it would be different with my son, since my DIL is of course the gatekeeper. I've kept opinions to myself, opened my ears and heart and accepted the inevitable changes. My DIL and I have worked hard over many years and as a result have developed a loving and close relationship. Have there been problems and issues along the way? Yes, of course, (as there have been with my daughters) but we have resolved them. My goal is to maintain loving and trusted relationships with my my daughters, SILs, son, DIL and ALL of my grandchildren. There is nothing more important to me. It is working and I don't expect that to change.
15
I so agree! I started cultivating my DIL from the moment she married my son, constantly putting thought and care into our interactions, bending over backwards not to criticize, be intrusive, or too doting to my son. It helped that she was friendly, too and my son loving, but I knew that it was up to me to keep our relationship light and easy. I always had those future grandchildren in my eye! It's worked well.
8
@M best comment all day. I am in this process, trying to build better deeper relationships with my two daughter-in-laws as time goes on.
2
Sometimes, meanwhile, the husband's mother believes the daughter-in-law is the obstacle because it is easier to believe that than acknowledge the son's more distant, or less open, relationship with his parents.
840
Yes. Exactly. Thank you. The reality is, if the son and mother have a geninely close relationship, these details will naturally fall into place. If they do not, that can painful, and it's simply easier to blame the daughter-in-law than to address those familial relationship issues.
28
@Bill Talcott
The real answer is, "It's about the kids." If everyone keeps their bes interests in mind the problem is solved.
Kids tend to love everyone until/unless they are taught not to.
6
@Bill Talcott
Mothers of that generation[boomers] seem to have zero self awareness. It would never occur to them that their relationship with the son was reason for the distance. It also would never occur to them that something THEY did was the catalyst for the distance with their own child.
Once again... the focus is all on the daughter/daughter-in-law, and whether she is limiting access to the grandchildren. How about the SON? My in-laws are a bit nutty though generally well-meaning but I have enough to handle with navigating my own parents' emotional needs and wants. Why am I suddenly also solely responsible for my inlaws' needs? My husband can call them back, send the videos, arrange the visits, and if he fails to do this (which he generally does, often by design), why should this be a reflection on me?
1093
Ugh. I hear you. My answer to this conundrum (which is my own as well) is that: yes, my husband should be doing this, but he isn't doing it, and that's the reality I have to deal with. The losers would be (1) my perfectly nice in-laws (who yes, should have raised a more emotionally aware son, but didn't. Alienating them from their grandchildren will do nothing to repair that past error.) (2) my kids who deserve all the loving relationships they can get.
So I keep things equal and make sure everyone gets all the videos, visits and access they want. Yes, it's more unfair work on my part. But the gains are too great to ignore. I'll pick other battles.
107
Yes! If our culture is to shift, let’s shift the responsibility of a son’s relationship with his parents on the son. It’s funny how this article notes that a cultural shift would be necessary but the entire article treats the daughter in law as some terrifying leader with absolute power. If this article were written by a parent of young children, perhaps the mother in law would be at fault!? It is no ones fault and it is a cultural problem so, let us start telling our sons what we expect from them emotionally now, not when they are married. Men are never burdened with emotional work their entire lives until they have kids, and then their emotional labor is transferred to their wives when it’s finally time for them to give back to their own mother. Boys/men need to understand that emotional labor is on them as well.
51
I agree to the onus to maintain 5he relationship should not be on the daughter in law. The problem discussed in the article is how daughters in law prevent their in laws from being close to their grandchildren. Unfortunately I have seen a few sad examples of this and it is damaging to everyone involved.
11
I wonder how much this has to do with differences in how women might (often unintentionally) mother sons differently than they do daughters. My mother raised me to be much more independent than my husband's mother raised him to be, and that is at the heart of the tension I (and many women I know) experience in the relationship with their MILs. While my own mom has embraced being the grandma, it sometimes seems like my MIL somehow feels usurped by me getting to be the mom to my children. Her constant need to be needed as she was by her sons for so long (for everything from filling out college applications to car insurance to college tuition--things that were always on me) seems like a search for a lost identity that my own mother just doesn't seem to suffer from. Things are getting better all the time, but my MIL has had a harder time with the transition from mother to grandmother than my mom has.
39
My experience both as a daughter and a grandmother bear this out. My mother came and helped me when I had children, my husband's mother less often, though she did give me lots of good advice and teach me many things. My sons both have children and their wives very naturally seem to be closer and more comfortable with their own mothers.
6
Both my husband and I grew up with easy and regular access to both sets of grandparents. Still, in our youth we each identified with our maternal families. Only later in life did we grow close with our paternal family. Because my parents died young, my sons grew up under the wings of my husband's parents and my siblings. We live far from each of them, not able to offer our presence, but both our sons and their wives do all they can to convey kindness, concern and respect.
9
The home is still often woman-centered, and women will usually naturally be closer to their own mother than to a mother in law. The MIL may feel she’s walking on eggshells but the DIL can be made to feel the same. If I have a clash with my own mother on how to run the house or raise my kids, I feel more comfortable arguing or hashing things out. With the MIL, the dynamics are very different. Also, not stated in this article is that MILs can be extremely overbearing. The MIL who moved to California to be near her son and DIL and baby—did she ASK before moving or did she just assume she should just come in? My own MIL came to stay for an entire month when my son was born. I was unable to enjoy any of my maternity leave because she took over unasked, including rearranging my kitchen shelves (unasked) and telling me what to do with the baby (also unasked). My gentle hints were ignored and when I finally had enough and lost my temper she burst into tears and made me feel like a monster. Meanwhile, my own wishes were summarily ignored. My mother gets more leeway to tell me what to do—she changed my diapers and stayed up with me when I was sick. MIL may mean well but it’s really hard to take when it’s unasked for and pushed on you.
201
Yup. I had the same experience with my mother in law. The straw that broke the camel's back was when she kept trying to "help" me nurse, like literally physically reaching in to readjust baby. I told my husband I couldn't take it anymore and she had to go. Oh, did I get heat for that.
43
Wow. Men really rely so much on their wives for emotional support and a social life that they jettison their own parents from their lives?
I saw my paternal grandparents every week when I was growing up. My father would take us to visit them. Is that really so hard?
131
My daughters-in-law apparently believed all the old mother-in-law jokes and stories - well before they met me. They initiate no communication with me, and don't respond to my occasional outreach to them. One is blatantly rude to me at least once each time I visit (once a year from 800 miles a year). I hate visiting because I must walk on eggshells the entire time. It's a huge contrast to what I grew up with: my parents had mutually respectful and caring relationships with their in-laws, something I assumed I would enjoy w/ my adult children and their spouses.
22
Your offhand question about the pushiness of grandparents towards their children-in-law reveals a wealth of possible additional explanations. This article does not meaningfully consider whether grandmothers behave differently towards their daughters-in-law than they behave towards their own daughters. If their conduct differs substantially--perhaps being more critical, less supportive, more controlling in ways that reflect gender norms in their relations with their daughters-in-law--then this could have significant explanatory value for why they are given less access. To the extent that women have traditionally derived their social status from male relatives such as husbands and sons, shifting gender relations offer a tantalizing account of how paternal grandmothers reject the increasingly equitable distribution of labor and the parenting decisions made in their grandchildren's households, holding their daughters-in-law responsible for these choices.
21
Any idea how this works with gay male couples who have kids? Do they keep both sets of grandparents at bay?
38
Curiously, there seems to be greater empirical support for the “grandmother hypothesis” when she is a woman’s own mother than when she is her mother-in-law.
1
It's because women are very skilled at emotional manipulation and much more disposed to use that skill for ill will and their own selfish purposes.
6
There are cases where the daughter's husband actually engages HIS parents more in the grandchild's life than the daughter invites her own mother in. For a more complete picture, let's hear about those cases too, in which the maternal grandmother is shut out.
12
This is a valid observation based on my experience as well. It has always struck me that there is a component of sexism to this. Maybe a woman’s right to choose extends beyond the womb.
2
My grandmother used to quote to me (from anon.) "Your daughter's your daughter all of her life. Your son is your son 'til he gets him a wife,"
26
Maybe because women tend to be younger than their husbands so an average maternal grandmother might be more active? Or because a new mother is just more comfortable asking her own mother for help than her mother-in-law. I haven't noticed a pattern of maternal grandmother advantage in the families I know though.
3
This makes me both appreciate my own mother's relationship with my children because it feels natural and easy, and really extra appreciate my mother-in-law's relationship with my kids. When my first child was born, she gave me the gift of her time. She came over every Wednesday (all day) for a whole year and helped in any way I wanted. I think this was not only generous and loving, but a smart way to make sure that she was a part of my child's life from the beginning.
36
I am the luckiest paternal grandmother in the world. My daughter in law is generous, loving, non competitive, accepting and just all out wonderful. They live in Florida and I visit for the weekend a couple of times A MONTH! I am welcomed with open arms all around. How did this happen? I do tread carefully, but I probably don't need to. I only give advice when I am asked, and I go with the flow of their sweet family. My son and I are close--that helps, but my DIL gets all the credit!
257
I had to double check this wasn’t written by my mother-in-law. Except they are in Florida.
8
Some here are saying the sons are responsible for the relationship. It is complicated and individual of course, but my gut agrees with you, DIL deserves the credit. Wish it weren't so.
4
If grandparents only give advice when asked and take cues from the parents, that goes a long long way to support a happy relationship with the grandchildren.
However, if grandparents (read: grandmother) act like _they know best, and disregard or disrespect parents' (read: mother's) wishes regarding child's diet, etc etc... Then there will be tension, conflict and possibly issues with access.
Personally, as a single parent I rely on the support my child's doting grandparents provide and as they are my parents I can tolerate (barely) the sometime stress and tension that result from grandma's disrespect of my (healthier) choices for my child. She's gotten better... However our relationship has suffered, and my child has witnessed conflict and tension to the point that as she's gotten older she sometimes tries to play us off each other or push buttons this way. I love my parents and want my child to know and love them, however if they were not my parents I could certainly see myself not tolerating this added stress and aggravation. Being a parent is hard enough without having a judgmental, disrespectful elder there interfering with your best laid plans. RESPECT the parenting values of the younger generation, grandma!!!
2
My first thought was wondering if some daughters-in-law harbor resentment at the realization that many of the imperfections in the man they mated with may be traced back to the mother who raised him.
184
Hahaha. Growing up in my family, even though my working mother did the majority of the cooking, we (dad, sister and I) pitched in at least a little bit with dinner—helping to set the table, carry dishes from the stove to the table, get water, condiments, napkins etc. And each person cleared their own plate after dinner. Even my 7-year-old nephew has been trained by my sister to do these things without asking. Meanwhile, I have to remind my husband EVERY TIME to do these things, or else it doesn’t get done. He will literally leave a dirty plate out on the table overnight. Or not have anything to drink with dinner, and then complain of having a headache/ being dehydrated.
Every time we see my MIL, I see where my husband gets this. Not only does she cook, but she also sets the table, pours drinks, clears everyone’s plate, etc. etc. while my FIL sits and looks at his iPad or watches sports. It may have made sense years ago in terms of division of labor, when she was a stay-at-home mom/wife while her husband worked long hours. But now that he’s retired I see this and it makes me cringe.
Meanwhile, my husband, a self-proclaimed feminist, doesn’t even notice at all.
19
Nailed this. Huge factor. Similar experience here. I had to teach/nag my husband basic stuff like helping out.
8
This is *exactly* right - you took the words and observations right out of my mouth... thank you.
6
“Her daughter-in-law, whom she didn’t know well before her pregnancy,” Well that is key. Maybe a relationship with a DIL is required before assuming a caregiving role within a nuclear family.
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Nancy, I get along really well with my daughter in law. I have known her since she started dating my son. We’ve taken her on vacations with us and incorporated her into our lives before there was ever a reason to do so. But once her baby came I found myself sidelined. I think it is so,what primal. I really do. Best, Janet
17
I've observed this matrilineal preference in my own family. My brother has essentially cut ties with his own biological family in order to get closer to and to solely associate with his wife's family. And his wife definitely prefers her own biological family to my brother's family. The upshot? My father essentially never hears from nor sees his grandchildren nor my brother because my brother and his family spend holidays, weekends, vacations solely with his wife's family.
18
This sounds like the dynamics of my family...
Does your father invite them for holidays? Try to arrange a day to celebrate that works for everyone? Offer to have them over on a weekend? You can't expect people to be mind readers.
3
@CynthiaPhd,
This is sad and must be very painful.
I hope it is your brother who is held responsible for his choice in how to handle family dynamics.
And not the daughter in law.
I’ve seen it happen similarly. Usually the daughter in law is blamed which is incorrect imho.
Even if the wife absolutely insisted on a complete cut off (as an extreme) it is the husband’s responsibility to speak up and seek counseling if necessary so they can agree on a reasonable approach. It is HIS job to figure out the best way to handle his family and speak up FOR them if necessary. And do the emotional labor of relationships.
Passive sons bear the responsibility for their families not having contact. Or in communicating the decision to not have contact and why that may be necessary.
It is the biological child’s job to handle his family.
5
I am privy to an extreme example. Male acquaintance is married and has a sister who is married. He has three daughters. His parents have had no contact with his children since they were toddlers and they are now young adults. His sister has two sons. They have a close relationship with their grandparents. He has a stay at home wife and has worked two or three jobs to support his family. His parents are bitter. When asked about this he says its "complicated". When his sister spoke to his wife years ago she "joked" that in her family (which includes her sisters) there is a goal to exclude the husband's parents. This seems inexcusable. As stated in the article "The daughters-in-law keep them away from the children,.....And the sons don’t stick up for their mothers; they have to be loyal to their wives.” Sums up the problem that many men have. They can't set boundaries or set reasonable expectations that their wives should agree to. If this is you, you may avoid short term conflict with your wife, but you are in for a miserable existence.
12
My question to all those people complaining about the daughter-in-law not letting them close to their grandkids is this: Why hasn't your son brought his kids to meet you more frequently? Why expect the daughter-in-law to be close to her parents and to you? You have not taught your sons to defy the male stereotype enough to be equally active in his children's lives as his wife. You reap what you sow!
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A lady I know was being ignored by her dil and son. Here's what she did.
She made it clear to them, that if she could not share, in some way, the
development of her granddaughter, that inheritance to all, including
the granddaughter, would be given over to charity. She stated that if
she died before the granddaughter reached 21, her attorney would send a letter stating why, she, the granddaughter had not received an inheritance.
You may think it harsh to bring up money, but this tactic resulted in
a landslide of pictures, phone calls, updates and invitations and now grandmother is enjoying being included to the extent that all seem to be happy with.
20
Becky Saul, wow, that is really terrible. I'd tell her what she could do with her money and have no regrets.
ST, I agree with you wholeheartedly and you said it more eloquently than I did.
21
That woman must have read Thackeray.
2
And what if you are a step-grandmother? Even more complicated.
7
When a step-grandmother desires a relationship with her son's stepchild, it's wonderful - truly a bonus. But it doesn't always happen; the step-grandmother may not consider the child a "real" grandchild. My daughter, who would have loved more grandparenting, hasn't received so much as a birthday card from my mother-in-law in the 21 years I've been married to her son.
Yes, as her DIL I had reservations because she was physically and emotionally abusive to her two sons throughout their childhoods, to the point that both found ways to leave home by the age of 16. It would have been irresponsible of me to leave my daughter alone with her. But they could nonetheless have had a relationship, and over time I would have relaxed my guard if the situation warranted it. My MIL was unhappy that her son married a divorcee with a small child, and sadly she decided early on to make no effort even though my daughter is the only grandchild she's ever had.
Julie, sounds like you dodged a bullet with that -- if her own sons cleared out by age 16!
Because my children don't have very involved grandparents on either side, they are actually closer to our neighbor who is like a surrogate grandparent (and like an uncle to me). He is 91 and an absolutely delightful human being. They have known him their entire lives and have spent more time around him than any of their biological grandparents. I hope your daughter has some loving older people in her life, whether actual relatives or just friends.
1
Did the author bother to reach out to any of the self-distancing Daughter-In-Laws to see their perspectives? Or did she listen only to the squeaky wheels that surrounded her, her dissatisfied friends?
Did she consider how ridiculous it is to MOVE under the assumption that you will be taking care of the children in the evenings (which, incidentally is the only time a lot of parents have to spend quality time with their children) before actually discussing plans with the parents and agreeing on arrangements? "Hello! I've just moved to be your next-door neighbor, and I'll watch your kids in the evenings! Why no, I didn't ask if this would work for you. Why are you so unappreciative?"
When help is needed, and the company is pleasant, most mothers are pleased to have their MIL's around. When gifts are unusable, and the offered assistance is unusable, the MILs cry and the DILs are frustrated.
414
Thank you for the reality check this article sorely needed.
34
Yes, some MILs are not willing to sacrifice their own life for that of their sons family. Tai chi or yoga take precedence.
3
I have said this for years that being the boy mom is harder. My DIL's are both wonderful but I see the amount of time their moms get with the grandkids is far more. The one family lives in the south and when the visit here they stay with DIL's parents an hour away from us. We see them for a few hours a couple of times while they are here. While the other grandparents have they joy of being there for bed time and in the morning. The second DIL is quite close to her mom who lives 1 1/2 hrs away. Her mom comes and stays for the weekend and DIL takes the kids to her mom to visit also. But you can't say a word because you look like a pushy whiny grandma. I just tell myself I am grateful for the time we do get and love the kiddies like mad.
20
Making a blanket statement that all MILs must be treated as the maternal grandmother is, you are making an enormous assumption that the mil in question is worth the effort and has good intentions. MILs are often guided by selfish interests, can be VERY competitive and invite themselves to everything. With people like that, who needs enemies? :)
Us daughter-in-laws owe it to ourselves and our sanity to protect ourselves and children from selfish, self-centered women. Thanks! Next time someone wants your opinion, let's say they will ask for it.
37
Sounds like you speak from personal experience. However I think it would be better to replace the term MIL in your blanket condemnation with the word people and realize that there are control freaks in many areas of life, and it isn’t necessarily a factor of being a MIL
19
Perhaps one day you will become a MIL as well...and someone will say, that perhaps you are guided by a selfish instinct...
7
Just remember what you have said today when your own sons marry. That karma stuff.
9
this is an oddly ahistorical article. Given that it is longstanding practice in a patriarchal society for the young bride to be taken in to live with her new husband and his parents. We don't live that way now in the West, but to suggest that what the writer is experiencing is in some way immutable just flies in the face of history.
10
I have one granddaughter—-the child of my son and his wife. I can attest to the article’s truth. But after some bumps in the road I have found my place. As a wise, retired doctor/neighbor told me, “Remember. Your daughter-in-law already has a mother. You are there to support her.” Once I incorporated that advice into my mindset, things smoothed out and all is now well. Would I like to see my granddaughter more and help my daughter-in-law more, too? Of course. But it is what it is. And it’s better to get along than to have the gate closed on your face. Besides, I have a daughter. Maybe she’ ll have a child someday. :-)
23