'God created war so that Americans would learn geography.' ~ MARK TWAIN
The U.S.A. needs war for validation.
"Everybody says sex is obscene. The only true obscenity is war.'" ~ HENRY MILLER
7
Not a ‘blunder’. A crime.
4
two corrections: It was Paul Wolfowitz who said the Iraq war would pay for itself and ...the United States careered into... I think the word he was trying to use was careened.
1
Its a nightmare. Bolton is going to replace McMaster. Eeks. End of human civilization as we know it.
2
Too late. Bolton in, one of the architects of those stupid neocon wars Trump spoke of in the campaign.
Also, US never learned the Vietnam lesson, let alone Iraq.
Still in Afghanistan. No end in sight.
Sad.
3
Nick, I would really like an update on the boy in the photo.
1
This just in: McMaster is out, and the worst possible choice, John Bolton, is in.
I trust that all the chest-thumping Trumpists are looking eagerly forward to their pretty little war, which their heel spurs (which they've prolly had implanted, that they may be more like their little tin gawd) will doubtless keep them from.
And I trust that all the "leftists," for whom Hillary was fah, fah too much of a warmonger are looking forward to the butcher's bill as well, that they may screech all the louder regarding the need to see the poor, and the working, and the middle class, punished until they join the pretended Resistance.
1
July, 1914. The bombastic and blustering Kaiser Wilhelm II encouraged Franz Joseph of Austria to "eliminate Serbia as a nation", thus setting in motion the devastating events of the First World War.
I see many similarities between Trump's and Wilhelm's character. Neither leader have/had any brakes.
Maybe the great kids who are marching on Saturday can add "NO NEW WARS" to their sigs.
1
If Mike Pompeo is so brilliant, how can he possibly contemplate a war with either Korea or Iran without recognizing that absolutely nobody knows what the outcome will be? I don't comprehend all this "brilliant" talk about Pompeo. I've had slew of young relatives graduate from the service academies and Ivy League universities. One was offered a Rhodes Scholarship. Even so, each and every one of them survives in the world because they recognize that God handed out a lot of brilliance. It's what you do with it that matters. Is it smart to serve a presidency saturated in idiocy and megalomania?
Should the shooting start in either theater, I believe the loudest patriots with the most misguided bravado, the membership of the NRA, should be packed up and shipped off to war. After all, they will be the "good guys with the guns."
Go get 'em patriots.
8
I love Kristof, but disagree with his conclusions here. GW Bush was surrounded by bad advice he took on faith: the Iraq War, of course, but also a see-no-evil attitude toward Wallstreet abuses for the 8 years leading to the Great Recession. Trumps actions are designed to promote himself, his family, and his brand, and you can't do that with expensive failures. So he'll provoke a nuclearized Iran, but stop short of involving America in any resulting tension (bummer for Israel). He'll declare victory in Korea just by meeting with Kim, who will as you say, keep his nukes because he understands he's still officially part of the 'Axis of Evil'. And his trade war and border wall are all designed to protect his voter base, but he'll pull back from both if the political consequences grow too large. A problem with GW Bush, who I think is a good man, is he tended to take his advice too much on faith in its correctness, and thus held it even when the logical cracks appeared ('really? you don't think Wallstreet has a gambling problem?'). Trump has only one cause, his self-promotion, and is thus less likely to ignore reality as his bad decisions yield their bitter fruit.
So much for the "last best hope for world peace" Apparently, our brave leader has overcome his aversion to the substantial mustache of Mr. Bolton, who can now realize his dream of withdrawing from the Iran deal, while ensuring that any meetings regarding Korea will be arranged for maximum drama and confrontation.
2
Well, I know this: bombing and killing children is always wrong and bad. I've seen a lot of photographs of bloody children from our "endless wars." When will we ever learn?
On the bright side, it looks like Jimmy Carter may live long enough to see the Guinea Worm completely eradicated, a monumental achievement. It must feel pretty amazing to know you have spared thousands of people from suffering and pain.
5
The biggest problem is our wily, manipulative leaders create a loud drumbeat for war due to a fabricated impending threat (only in their wicked, selfish heads ) to our country's integrity and security. These leaders know what the response will be. Declare War. Period. The Democrats, the press, the media, the citizenry, all get into frenzy of a righteous warmongering leaving all logical thinking and reasoning by the wayside. This is because nobody wants to labeled as a non-patriot, to be wrong about our security. When the leaders put forth the looming danger, the Senate, the House, the 4th all fall for it hook line and sinker. We bully our allies to join in, get the UN Security Council and the General Assembly to vote against a country which has the misfortune of becoming the target. The greatest problem is nobody wants to cast the first stone at manipulative, bully leaders who con us with slow moving junkyard trucks as moving WMDs
I doubt that Iran will resume its nuclear program just because the United States withdraws from the agreement. The other signatories to the agreement will not follow the U.S. lead, so Iran will not jeopardize its access to the imported goods and services it desperately needs. What will happen, however, is that U.S. hawks will accuse Iran of restarting its nuclear program and will press for a military intervention which will be supported by Israel and probably three other countries.
1
"43 percent of Americans still believe that invading Iraq was the correct decision." That's what 20 years of incessant brainwashing will do. They think it was still the right decision because their so-called news/info sources don't talk about the fallout.
5
I got that feeling when I heard you talk about Syria.
Trump stated he wanted to be a war president. So why should anybody be surprised at this? He would declare war with Switzerland if he could get away with it. He wants to be seen as a winner but its not his body on the battlefield nor his sons. I hope the Senate grows a backbone. But they haven't so far.
2
" The president considers his unpredictability advantageous, when it is more likely to have explosive consequences.” To me he looks more like he is going to fall of a cliff. And take US with him.
"and the news media alike mostly rolled over"; were journalism to suddenly wake up we might find more people learning that Iraq and t rump were real bad ideas. Reporters need to remember that in a fascist state they are usually out of work and in prison.
Congress could find a spine and vote to remove the War Powers from the president and take it back in congress where it belongs according to the Constitution.
Congress could find a spine and pass a law protecting Mueller's investigation.
republicans in congress say they can't buck t rump because his very base base will primary them out of office. So they cowtow to the very worst instincts in our Nation while ignoring the vast majority of US who are going to vote for reasonable people to get our Nation and its government back to doing our work.
1
Pompeo (and Bolton) are very likely to let Trump be Trump. So, we are very likely to start rattling our saber, loudly. Let's take a look at Iran v. Iraq: Iran is TWICE as big as Iraq, with a population that is nearly one hundred percent Shia, instead of split between Shia and Sunni, which means they are religiously unified. In time younger Iranians are likely to rebel against the religious rulers of the country, but if the treaty is killed by us, they are far more likely to rally to the ayatollah... And, it seems we will have very little support in the region (or around the world), except for the Israelis and the Saudis.
$3 trillion may seem like a bargain this time out.
4
Until he starts a shooting war as opposed to trade war Donald Trump will likely not be considered the worst US president in this century by historians. That honor will remain with the architects of the Iraq invasion/occupation. I wish I were confident President Trump will not take such a unwise path but if the Democrats take back the House in November that should reduce the likelihood of another reckless foreign adventure. I doubt the Bush administration could have sold the Iraq War to the American public if not for the 9/11 attacks which ironically had no Iraqi participation. Trump has used these same bait and switch tactics his entire business career. We will see.
So what's the alternative to the USA facing head on the nuclear threats of North Korea and Iran? They will stop at nothing.
They cannot have these weapons and postponing the day of reckoning until they are able to deliver these weapons beyond their borders would invited catastrophic pre-emptive strikes by the USA a/o Israel. They are also spreading the technology around the world. This has to stop.
This is the ugly reality.
This is why Israel is a true ally of the USA - they have skin in the game and will strike if they have to. As a small state they have no margin for error and thus higher stakes. And a lot of enemies who want to erase them. Our interests are aligned.
Our European allies as usual will talk and do nothing. Fine. As an American I have a different view - we have to act decisively and the sooner or better.
The balance of power in our world is nuclear - the haves/have nots. We can pay a lot now or a lot more later by pretending that we can negotiate away nukes - weak men in weak states want them and will stop at nothing to get them.
It looks like the Republican congress and Donald Trump are going to pass legislation that lets the states go after websites like Backpage.com. Puts you and Trump on the same page on a critical issue, no? Surely you'll do a column celebrating the victory.
Shortly after 9/11, someone told George W. Bush that he was now a "war president". He seemed to think this was a great honor and a big step up in his historical importance and macho-ness. I imagine that Trump, too, is hoping to be a "war president", as if starting another ill-advised war in which thousands, maybe millions will die, is a good thing. Expect to see stories after his military "adventure" that will expose his pre-war planning to become even more rich than he is now. His "base" put this egomaniac in charge of the world's largest military, even after he had suggested that there wasn't much point in having nuclear weapons if we didn't use them. It will be their fault when things go pear-shaped based on orders from this crazy man.
I've lost faith in "his generals" being able to keep his actions sane, and in their being able to prevent another senseless war. After General Kelly made those ridiculous and false statements about Representative Wilson, we knew that he could be just as nasty, false and vile as Trump. Hard to know whether he gives a hoot about the millions of Asians living in Seoul who could become the first casualties if the Trump-Un summit goes badly. What is it about the quantity of testosterone floating around the White House these days that makes the world seem so much less safe?
Republicans can mitigate his power, by passing the Mueller protection bill, and passing a bill to stop him from declaring war, or attacking any other country. REPUBLICANS? Will you do the right thing? NOW, please.
8
Let's hope Mueller can bring indictments before Trump uses a war to divert our attention from his obvious ties with Russia.
3
Pompeo is not smart, he is dogmatically intensely verbal, as is Trump, but to hold the opinions that they do is far from smart. They both have a very limited world view. Americans have to start listening to a different drum beat because the next war will get this country. We have to get over the notion that we can be a world-class jerk and bully and that behavior won't come home to bite us because other countries now have the weapons to bite back big time. Trump is Putin's pocket, as is Kushner, and they have no understanding of their role as pawns in his game. The object of the game is diminish the US, and they are well on the way to doing just that.
2
Only countries have weapons because we allowed them to develop them. Like NK and soon Iran. . I am responding to your comment that implies they not that they have such weapons we must become meek and defensive. This is a bad strategy and their possessing weapons is not an inevitable turn of events. Respectfully submitted
1
'Trump's Talk Worries Me. Like the Talk Before the Iraq War.'
Well do not worry Kristof- the Democratic Party will step up, just like before Iraq, and stop the entire thing.
Wait a minute. Hold on. Scratch that.
You do need to worry Kristof- the Democratic Party will not step up and stop the entire thing. In fact many Democrats will support war- they always do.
1
WillT26, you forgot the part about Bush-Cheney providing fake evidence that the war was premised on.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger_uranium_forgeries
Thanks for the distortion of reality.
4
And the paper of record, including Tom Friedman, pretty much going along with it.
1
Nicholas Kristof is giving us a warning about possible barbarism facing humanity -- this time the people of North Korea and Iran are in peril.
As has been well documented by journalists and historians, government has exterminated millions of innocents -- its bitter evil fruit. Studying political science can help us understand why it does so, and we can rationally understand that it will exterminate innocent people by the millions.
Just as predictably, government's apologists will tell us it is legitimate and sing its praises, and then rail from the heights of a NY Times editorial against its evil activities. They glorify the tree, then decry its evil fruit. I don't buy it -- when you endorse government, you endorse its expected bloodthirsty activities.
2
We are going to war.
As home front pressure mounts the Rump surrounds himself with Bolton, et al. Rump's political fortunes are crumbling; war will be his way to maintain a grip on power.
Congress does have the authority to fund everything and despite some modern laws that give the President discretion with respect to immediate threats, Congress retains the authority to declare war. Trump can start wars but Congress can stop them and impeach him.
2
War with either North Korea, Iran, or even worse, both simultaneously, will make us look back on Iraq 1.0 and 2.0 as minor skirmishes. In other words, horrific and unimaginable. Seoul would likely be almost completely destroyed. Even hinting at war with these two nations is insane.
2
We have not learned the lessons from Vietnam, let alone Iraq. We Americans have yet to face the fact that our leadership has been very belligerent, war-mongering, filled with overweening pride for many years now. Most especially GOP leaders, from Nixon on, but Dems too, to a lesser degree. War and the weapons of war are our biggest industry. And heaven forbid that any American, psychotic or otherwise, not be allowed to purchase an arsenal of weapons to protect him- or herself from fellow Americans, all potential perceived enemies. This is where we've got to, Nick, with out belief in "might makes right." I haven't recognized my country for a long, long time. Since Vietnam, to be precise.
2
500,000...Five hundred thousand...
6
Maybe someone should tell the Iranians to lie to the #PLIC, tell him how handsome and smart he is and what big hands he has, - (oh, let us just call it buttering up).
Then they can send a secret message, using lemon juice, to offer to meet with him, and pointing out it would be something that Obama never did.
Watch what happens next.
5
Cheney is the devil incarnate or like a Dr. Evil figure from an episode of Batman.
Actually he resembles the Penguin now that I think about it. He was the one running the show at the WH. Bush was his handy Howdy Doody.
Rumsfeld was also a master puppeteer in orchestrating the Iraqi war.
I still wonder to this day how these men can sleep at night, I really do.
5
Yes, the very fact that the people responsible for the Iraq war (Bush, Cheney, etc.) and deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocents have never been prosecuted may encourage the current occupant of the White House to launch another criminal war.
But, then, it would be not only about creating a handy distraction by "The Orange President". There is sooo much money to be made during every war. He would be supported by each and every weapon manufacturer from New York to Los Angeles, and beyond.
4
I watched Powell show his fuzzy radar images at the UN and watched him present like a 10 year old boy fibbing to his mom. I knew than that invading Iraq was a lie. If Bush was weak, Trump is way worse. Trump is not only weak, but narcissistic delusional. I am not surprised that 43% of Americans still believe Iraq was the correct decision because you had more than that vote for Trump, knowing he was a lying sexual predator who cheated and lied for a living.
2
I'm scared too. Nevertheless, we must march on. Perhaps we could find several porn stars to keep him occupied for the next 1035 days. We definitely need to register more voters, knock on doors, educate family and friends, support candidates who share our values, vote, and more. He is truly dangerous, and I hope we can stop him. I'm convinced the only way to stop him is for the Democrats to win the House and Senate. Otherwise, who knows what he'll do with the time he has left with Ryan and McConnell as his puppets.
2
Trump's talk isn't just worrisome, it should scare your pants off. Anyone with a brain (which excludes most of cabinet and supporters) knows this man will create and use a crisis to save himself.
Thousands dead, trillions flushed down the toilet since Dubya, Cheney and Rumsfeld roamed the corridors of Washington D.C. If they were from any other country they'd be called war criminals.
But that's old news, as shameful as the last 15 months have been. Right now speak out against the criminal in the White House before he adds war criminal to his record.
5
Nothing worse than a misinformed public, credulous with the constant pounding of lies by Trump, lies repeated so often that they have become the 'gospel truth' to his base. But it behooves an alert, and courageous, free press to stop Trump and his enablers to lead us into yet another fabricated war under false premises. Can you trust this charlatan, after having almost eliminated diplomacy? We are living a crisis in moral values, and a runaway bull in a 'china shop', a most dangerous thug due to his impulsive unscrupulousness. He must be placed in a straightjacket, and pronto. A little detail lingers however, the republican party's complicity. How much longer?
5
If the Republicans fail to stand up to trump you can kiss your constitution good bye. You can borrow ours. We bounce the idiots in charge out in no time flat. But you must promise to return it.
7
It would be nice to think starting a war in Iran, Korea or heaven forbid China was just stupidity (or greedy Daddy Warbucks) of the Bush years. I simply do not understand (more than a couple of congress people who are either in cahoots with trump or stupid also) congress' passivity. This feels much more sinister.
5
If 43% of the American public believes that invading Iraq 15 years ago was the right thing to do, especially in light of the real world experience available to us as a result, then 43% of Americans are either blithering idiots or downright suicidal.
I worry less about President Trump than I do about the substantial population of my countrymen who support him, particularly now that it is crystal clear what kind of mental derangement we have in our presidency.
I don't want to go to my grave with the mass suicide of my compatriots, but in matters like this we wouldn't have the choice except proactively at the ballot box.
3
I also have a grim feeling in my belly that Nick Kristof sounds a little too eager for America to go into a for real shooting war with either Iran or N Korea. Everyone conveniently forgets that the NY Times was one of the biggest pro war cheerleaders preceding our little Iraqi misadventure.
Journalists as lap dogs? That's putting it way too mildly. Your newspaper allowed a reporter, Judith Miller, to beat the drum of war for a good year before the invasion of Iraq using the rumor of 'weapons of mass destruction' as a primary justification for what would become the on-going slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent people.
You did this. Fifteen years is not long enough to re-write that history.
3
A real question for the Times - maybe Nick can access the files: someone posted here not long ago, that the NYT lied about the WMD's. My memory was that they were simply reporting what the folks on the Hill had said, not taking the investigative lead in getting the real scoop on whatever was hidden out there in the desert. Am I mis-remembering? Did the NYT start the Iraq war, after all, with some bad journalism? Was the NYT acting like lapdogs and missing whatever the real story was about why we went in there, in thrall to the strong personalities in power here, or did they purposely posit something that caused our politicians and generals to jump to a conclusion? What really was the final straw that broke so many camels backs? It wasn't - it could not have been - something so mundane as oil dominance, right?
1
Don't be surprised if Donald Trump and Kim Jong-Un have a grand old time together making up names for other world leaders and pushing each others buttons, and Trump does a total about face and accepts North Korea as a nuclear power, pushes for a North-South Korea reconciliation, and proclaims himself a historic legend. This would not only add to his legacy of unpredictability and distract from his personal issues but would also be an opportunity to stick it to Xi Jinping and his designs of Asian dominance. Trump knows that Kim's nukes are a fait accompli and would best be served if they were pointed somewhere else, at least for the near future. Certainly given the volatile nature of the individuals this alliance could break down at any moment.
1
Spectacular is the omission of the responsibility of the TIMES and other establishment media outlets for promoting the story of the Weapons of Mass Destruction falsehood, which was the justification for the Iraq War.
1
Cheney was more like Dr. Strangelove. Trump is more like Slim Pickens riding the nuclear bomb like a rodeo star.
1
Nick, While I share your conclusion that, back then, the Dems and news media alike rolled over, at least they had the recent 9/11 experience as fig leaf to their cowardice. (Which, by the way, was abundantly clear to many of us at the time.) There is nothing today to justify war with either NK or Iran or anyone for that matter. If he tries to make war, and this Congress, this public, this press does not rise up immediately against him, we will have totally surrendered our nation to a vile, ignorant traitor.
We know that with Trump, everybody is expendable and can potentially be thrown right under his bus, no matter how much they have helped him. Just ask Comey. It's all about Trump - nothing else matters. Now, being increasingly boxed in from numerous directions, we are in a very dangerous situation.
His never ending thirst for diversions could very easily take a deadly turn, as Mr. Kristof has accurately pointed out. The cowardly silence of most Republicans is sickening.
1
Nick, you are too kind here. The decision to nuke North Korea has already been made. The so called summit is just a way to accelerate the end game.
The real purpose of nuking North Korea is to set the precedent for nuking Iran. That decision has already been made too.
Then there will be some concocted rapprochement between the USA and Russia on how to resolve Syria which will involve the US and Russia securing the Syrian Oil & Gas Fields.
From there they will expand to secure the Iraqi O&G fields and then Iran's.
You see, what could be more invincible than an alliance the two white, christian super powers which control 90+% of the World's Nuclear weapons, who then go on to secure more than half the worlds O&G resources.
Who needs mixed race democracy, when white people could have this.
MAGA
Your 43% statistic is the money shot. Half of America is messed up. Can we just say it?
1
Yes, me too.
One sad truism is that we may avoid another disaster only because we are no longer rich enough to afford more misaventures.
Don't bet on it. We went to war in Iraq without paying for it. Just put it on the Mastersofwar charge card.
1
Everything aboutvtrump worries me .
Everything he says, everything he tweets, everything he does. Me and millions of other Americans. And there is good reason to worry. We have a sociopathic liar and mad man in the White House trying to destroy democracy and with a treasonous relationship with Russia and Putin.
So there is big cause for worry.
2
Nick what is missing from so much of conversation about Iraq is the desire for Blood Lust revenge for 9/11 that Americans had and Bush/Cheney encouraged.
There is ONE difference: George W. is smarter than Trump, and that is something I never thought I would write..............Of course, my pet rock is smarter than Trump.
2
Wake up Americans. Iraq is not Saudi Arabia, in the same way that Mexico is not Argentina. Stop letting Republicans send your children to war and squander your taxes, when all they are trying to do is enrich their war-industry and weapons manufacturer buddies.
Mr. Kristof is one of the few people at the NYT entitled to warn us about the beating of war drums. Fifteen years later, it's useful to remember that he questioned logic/value of invading Iraq while the Times organization, wittingly or otherwise, played an instrumental role in Cheney's pro-war propaganda plan, thereby delivering us into this evil.
1
Kristof’s final point about 43% thinking invading Iraq was right epitomizes America’s tragic problem: Democracy is failing here because 43% of our voters (not coincidentally Trump’s latest approval number) are such fools, and have such stupid and immoral values, that they are putty in the hands of a would-be King of the Oligarchs like Trump, or their real hero Putin.
1
I believe trump wants to preside over a war. He thinks it is his right, and it is true to his character. He is a coward and a bully, and he would gladly send others to fight and die for his personal glory. It also would serve to distract voters from his many faults and failings and perhaps help him survive the midterms. What we need to do is prepare for the midterms, register people to vote and then vote trump acolytes out of office. Hopefully Mueller finishes his work and then Congress gives serious thought to impeachment.
It's really much simpler. If Obama made it happen, it must be undone by Trump.
45's only notion of a legacy is wrecking that of uppity 44.
2
The risks are exacerbated by the Russia inquiry and the lawsuits Trump faces as a result of his sordid behaviour with porn stars, playmates, and Apprentices. Facing personal disgrace and possible legal consequences, he may well leap impulsively into a war to distract the nation, hoping Americans will rally behind their President during a national crisis.
The real problem is, as it has always been - his ego.
Donald Trump beamed as George W. Bush declared "mission accomplished". He is jealous of Bush. Donald Trump needs that same limelight constantly. He believes he's going to have a military parade, too. He is jealous of Kim Jong-un with his displays of military might and the applause of his puppet assembly. Beauty pageants. TV celebrity. Pictures with hookers. It is all for show. Donald Trump's show. He is the greatest. He will do much better than Bush or Kim and gloat.
"The temptation to fire missiles at North Korea or Iran may also be particularly great for a president seeking to distract from a Russia investigation or an outspoken porn actress."
Prior to the Iraq war, the Bush Administration and Faux News provided deliberate false propaganda, specifically that Iraq had WMD, and we were all misled.
Faux News and the GOP still believe that the American base can again be easily manipulated and deceived for profit.
1
If America's top torturess is confirmed as head of the CIA, expect more ugly behavior on our part that will merely attract millions more to hate us.
1
When asked, in 2003, I told the questioner that the invasion of Iraq was a mistake. Saddam Hussein was not a religious fanatic like Bin Laden and, if fact, was hated by the Islamic extremists.
Cheney and Rumsfeld had their own agendas to pursue and 15 years later we have a mess on our hands that is continually refreshed with the blood of innocents. Trump and his gang of bootlickers are on the same path, on multiple fronts (Iran, N. Korea) and unless the Congress and the saner members of his administration (Semper Fi, General Mattis) stand up to this idiocy, I fear bd things to come.
There are many Trump 'issues' at work here. Trump has decimated our state department and said he IS the state so there are no foreign policy experts or negotiators to work with NK. Trump is the most unfit, unqualified, unstable, 'American' president in our entire history. He has no feelings for others at all. His callousness is legendary and yet there are Americans still supporting this monster.
Trump could incite a 'Ghandi' to violence and wants to out bully Kim Jong-un and as crazy and unhinged as this sounds, Trump would not care about hundreds of millions of lives being lost due to nuclear warfare or his starting up WWIII. The ultimate mad man.
He should be removed as president because he is a threat to America always, and our national security and is a threat to the world as well. His other impeachable offenses that have piled up in the last 15 months fade in the possibility of this final Trump cataclysm.
2
"... United States careered into one of the most cataclysmic, expensive and idiotic blunders of the last half-century: We invaded Iraq. ..."
Agreed, but with one exception: it was NOT a blunder, it was INTENTIONAL, every bit of it top to bottom.
Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Wolfowitz, top DOD brass, et al are all war criminals.
2
Some people made a lot of money off the war.
Another similarity with March 2003: I was certain it wasn't going to happen despite all the sabre rattling. "Bush just isn't that stupid." I have that (unfounded? - I hope not) optimism again.
1
There is a deep reservoir of stupidity in America. Tens of millions supported both the Iraq and Vietnam wars -- murderous, pointless catastrophes. And they still do! Very soon, maybe after the next war, Europe and China will lead the world as we do the slow, sad fade.
1
It isn't America alone that is stupid, it is human beings. Just look at the chaos in the middle east, once upon a time these were advanced sophisticated civilizations. Same in Africa, look at how the post colonial leaders of those countries have repeatedly exploited their own citizens. Look at the gulf countries, drowning in obscene amounts of wealth, while imposing wahabbism globally..
2
Dear Mr. Kristif,
you are perfectly right about the illegal invasion of Iraq by the US which amounts to genocide (more than 11 Iraqis killed for every US amounts to pretty much the same rate the Nazi troops in Russia killed) and should be treated as such in The Hague.
But you failed to mention the "Power Point Presentation" given by Gen. Powell at the UN, which was an attempt to legally justify the genocide and invasion.
It may be understood be man Americans that this war was justified, but outside the US the lies are understood for what they are, lies by a criminal organization called the US government.
That is what most of my business partners in the region tell me.
The US is talking about justification of being the world's police but in fact, it is just another small town bully with a big gun.
Trump's entire experience with the military is his attending an elite private military school up the Hudson. Pretty good duty, eh? And so, considering his supreme selfish nature, do you think Trump has any compunction about propelling US into a war, any kind of war, including nuclear? Not on your life, or mine. Trump is the last person one would want in charge of our nuclear arsenal, and yet over 60 million had no problem with Trump's small fingers on the nuclear button. What a bunch of chumps.
DD
Manhattan
2
Obama = 1 step forward.
Trump = 2 steps back.
We live in dangerous times with a "self" proclaimed very stable genius with a itchy trigger finger. 40 percent of Americans live in a bubble of Fox News disinformation and are proud of there ignorance and lack of critical thinking skills. And this is only the tip of the iceberg that the USS America is steaming full speed ahead straight at. How this all turns out rosy is a mystery to me.
1
The gifts showered upon America by the Republican Party and it's proponents are blood-soaked invoices and grim death notices.
And yet, here we are, again, electing another dimwit to the most important office in the world.
Thanks, GOP. Shout-out to Fox News' Murdoch family too.
1
Nick, Iran never stopped its nuclear program. Review Israel intel on this one. We got snookered.
What happened to the boy in the photo? 15 years have passed.
>
DJT will start a war to help his poll numbers, bet on it.
October surprise Oct 2020. Save comment
Brennan, Clapper, Mueller and their ilk were part of the intelligence/enforcement apparatus behind “WMDs” that got us into Iraq.
Just a reminder...
1
Question: Who benefited the most out of those 3 trillions of the Iraqi war?
Answer: The very same who are salivating now at the prospect of another "expedition".
1
Mr. Kristof, I have a bold prediction: there will be no summit meeting between Donald Trump and Kim Jong-un. The closer the proposed get-together looms on the horizon, one or the other is going to pull back having been denied the guarantees they seek before negotiating actually begins. Just about everyone who has followed this worrisome eventuality concedes that Trump got played. I don't see how Mr. Kim lets go any of the insults that the thick-fingered president has lobbed his way. And, of course, No. 45 is hardly one to ignore a slight to him--not to the country--but to himself.
John Bolton--he of the Hitler mustache--is the Iago-in-waiting. This president is so abysmally stupid that he ignores advice, claiming to "know more than my generals." The arrogance is astonishing and far more disquieting than it was 15 years ago. W. and Cheney were seasoned (or unseasoned, if you prefer) veterans of Texas politics and Capitol Hill. Trump, by contrast, is the merest amateur. He surrounds himself with sycophants, not hardened veterans of combat or of diplomacy. We saw what he thinks of the State Department by reducing its budget (and its experts on so many countries and continents) and playing with the Pentagon budget like it's Monopoly money.
He's a reckless fool who doesn't understand that Iran, freed from the 2015 agreement, will go its own way. Bibi, in Jerusalem, will find some pretext to attack Tehran. The Saudis and the Syrians will get involved. And Russia will watch.
We have seen that Trump is impulsive, vengeful, and that he has shown no capacity to consider the consequences of his actions. He is also ignorant of diplomacy, other than to be a bully and a threat. We know that. Almost everyone in Congress must know it also. They could put some restraints on Trump's capacity to launch an attack just because someone was rude to him, or because he feels Mueller is closing in on him.
Do any Republicans care that hundreds of thousands of lives are at risk because of this man's glaring limitations as a leader? So far, they don't.
"Mike Pompeo, the C.I.A. director, whom Trump has nominated to be secretary of state, is very smart — and very hawkish on Iran"
What does "smart" mean?.
1
The basic problem: Our president has Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD). Read the symptoms and recognize his every action and utterance. Nothing ends well with those with or dealing with NPD.
Nicholas Kristof has put to words my same fears. We should be afraid, very afraid.
Here's a significant comment from a long-term observer---->
"Towards the end of the Obama presidency, it looked as though America would favor a power balance in the Middle East — as the then- president put it, the Saudis and Iranians should ‘share the neighborhood and institute some sort of cold peace.
Unless Iran and Saudi Arabia tolerate each other’s regional aspirations there will of course be no stability, but Trump, MbS and Benjamin Netanyahu have killed the idea."
.....Christopher de Bellaigue, London reporter covering South Asia and Middle East since 1994
It certainly does sound like the same reckless talk that preceded the second Iraq war. I had forgotten what Mr. Cheney, President Bush and Mr. Runsfeld said. Unbelievably ignorant, stupid and careless. And dishonest?
Yikes: A worldwide trade war pushed the world into the Great Depression. Abandoning the Iran nuclear deal would start an epic chain reaction. And nuclear war on the Korean Peninsula could kill millions.
I don't know that we can blame journalists and Democrats for what the Bush Republican White House did. Shame on them! We are all in any case responsible for repaying the moral debt that Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld incurred.
Hello? We can say hello until the cows come home. Nobody's home. The shades are up. The lights are off. It looks like Mr. Trump's cult is with him to the bittier end. Trump believes, more than ever before, that he can get away with anything.
will pin this to the fridge. Or magnetize.
Will wait a year and re-read, aware that my sadness will have grown profoundly because of what has happened in the intervening 365 days
or I will breath a breath of relief to discover that this bomb-thrower has blown himself up, and that Nick Kristof was insightfully wrong,
all for a little blood oil...and we're still addicted
1
"one of the most cataclysmic, expensive and idiotic blunders of the last half-century"? How about in all of America history?
1
War unites us and Trump needs that.
"A recent Pew survey found that 43 percent of Americans still believe that invading Iraq was the correct decision."
American exceptionalism on display once more--exceptional stupidity. What else can you say about a country that elected Trump and at the same time gave control of all the branches of government to the most corrupt political party in US history?
2
"We should try to learn from these calamitous misjudgments, but I have a grim feeling in my belly..."
Listen to it, for it speaks the truth and you are not alone in your dread. Those of us old enough have seen this picture too many times in the past. We never seem to learn and when we actually have a president who attempts to keep us out of more foreign entanglements they are labeled "weak". The MIC and the Pentagon speak loudly in this country and even presidents must bow to them...how else to explain the inexorable spread of American bases and engagements around the world.
2
The illegal Iraq War was a ploy to control major oil reserves. It cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of innocents and created chaos in the Middle East that is is rampant today. It is the primary reason so many millions of immigrants have fled their homes seeking sanctuary in Europe and the US.
Trump has no such obvious financial objectives with his periodic saber-rattling. It is all about acting out his dictator fantasy, playing to his base of racists, bigots and white nationalists, and perhaps most of all, creating a diversion from his treasonous collusion with the Russians that own him. The Republican leaders who thought that they could control Trump have betray themselves as cowards and just as they betray our nation and its Constitution. Rise up America, go to the polls and throw all of these traitors out of office.
3
I write from my home in Europe, facing a president – mine - who supports Putin, Erdoğan, Mohammed bin Salman, and Netanyahu while looking down on Merkel and Löfven to name two.
Core democratic Europe is no match for Trump’s alliance of non-democratic leaders, so I see a darker future for the Europe I thrive in. Trump will bring America down, quickly with a war or more slowly by helping climate change take place and by letting infrastructure and social/health programs fall apart.
Comments already deal with most things I might say so I point instead to widely held misconception expressed in a comment by Charles Dodgson: “Our "enemies" are brown-skinned peoples, ethnic minorities -- and aren't white.” If he is looking at Iran and Syria then he is wrong. In the USCB system. Iranians, Iraqis, Syrians and other Middle Eastern nationalities are assigned to the fictional white race - they are white by law. Same for many North Africans. True, the USCB flew a trial balloon by proposing to create a new race MENA – Middle Eastern + North African – so that the American white race would be made more nearly the counterpart of Trump’s fictional Aryan race. That proposal was withdrawn but the American door is closed to them anyway.
Trump will succeed in realizing his Plot Against America, the plot Charles Lindbergh never was able to bring off.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen - US SE
1
I have read that Trump leaves military matters to the Pentigon. Trump does not wish to tangle with the Joint Chiefs because if there is an upset he cannot push them around. If he chose to fire one of the Chiefs, surely they would all walk out. Replacing them would be a nightmare.
Trump can inflict himself upon civilians, but the military just won't back down. If he Trumped up a war, he would need to work with the Joint Chiefs on a daily basis. Endof Trump.
>>>"... it looks as if Trump will pull out of the Iran nuclear deal by May 12.The risk is that Iran responds by restarting its nuclear program. This would lead to soaring tensions [in the region]...."<<<
As ludicrous as this sounds, whether from Trump's poor judgment or simply a reverse-anything-Obama mentality, many conservative Americans want war in the Middle East, even nuclear war, growing out of a multiplicity of biases, including a generalized anti-immigrant and/or anti-Muslim sentiment, one which sees all Muslims as either terrorists or complicit in terrorism. Photos such as seen in this article, of the teenager who lost his legs, fail to elicit sympathy, and sometimes elicit stony comments such as "serves him right." (I've heard this ugliness.)
Most concerning, however, is the sentiment among evangelicals, which yearns for ever expanding war in the Middle East, and therefore their support for hawkish politicians, because of their clamor for the End Times as written in the biblical Revelations, so that their religious fervor and convictions can be fulfilled in their lifetimes. This is a very dangerous mindset which is not simply private religious belief but one which enjoins the rest of us (our sons and daughters in the military) and indeed cares naught that the U.S. engages/injures other countries in that quest.
Americans are easily fooled. Bush 43 is a war criminal. Tax cuts, deregulation and war, that's what Republicans bring.
2
Iraq, the biggest miscalculation ever by an American administration. It is not coincidental that it was a Republican government that started it with grandiose lies about weapons of mass destruction. It is the GOP way. No facts? No problem. We will have the GOP war machine concoct our justification courtesy of Dick Cheney among others.
“A recent Pew survey found that 43 percent of Americans still believe that invading Iraq was the correct decision.”
In related news, Trump’s approval is about 39%. It appears Trump’s followers are uneducable.
2
"The temptation to fire missiles at North Korea or Iran may also be particularly great for a president seeking to distract from a Russia investigation or an outspoken porn actress."
I think another potential motive for such a destructive decision needs to be added: Trump is a bully, and every bully is a coward. Trump's victims have been women, and tradespeople and vendors he could bully with his battery of lawyers.
Trump's fondness for appearing tough didn't prompt him to exhibit his toughness in the rice paddies and jungles of Vietnam. Like every Trump male since his family arrived in America in 1885, he managed to stay out of the military. Don Jr. and Eric advertise their he-man proclivities by murdering defenseless animals like baby elephants who can't shoot back and can be killed from a safe distance with high-powered rifles fitted with telescopic sights. Like father, like sons.
It seems that the most belligerent politicians are the ones who've never been in a war as combatants. This is a problem for the rest of us because Trump's need to bluster and pose as a tough guy to compensate for his cowardice could easily lead him to view a hot war as an irresistible opportunity to flex his imaginary muscles, treating the deaths of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, as an irrelevant factor in what, for him, would have all the reality of a violent video game. The man's utter lack of empathy is too apparent, and it's what you'd expect of a sociopathic bully.
Trump owes someone money or he been caught doing something nasty on tape. It is finance or romance...always. He is similar to THE GOV in the movie Blazing Saddles.
1
Mr. Kristoff, what worries me is journalists like yourself forget how it was the Neocons and Zionists that like then who are now once again fanning the flames of war. Invading Iran is something both Netanyahu and Trump would love to simply chase away the headlines of their respective corruption cases. You need to call out how wrong the Neocons were then as they are now. Instead we get the same bad propaganda, except Iran now replaces Iraq as the new Muslim scary monster.
This like then is about Israel's imperialistic agenda, now coupled with Saudi Arabia's (Sunnis) religious agenda of vanquishing Shiites in their centuries old conflict. Let's not also forget the gas fields that are also in dispute between Lebanon and Israel. Apparently since America vanquished Iraq's Sunnis, the very same Neocons were all surprised how that in fact made Iran stronger, and created Isis----they were shocked, utterly shocked--despite the fact they were told by the experts this would happen. "Slam dunk" indeed. No more wars of Israeli imperialism with American blood.
Thank you Nicolas for yet another brilliant email teaser and article— I look forward to reading your stuff as much as I enjoy a sunny day! Go Oregon!!
Yet— Wasn’t the initial outbreak of the US attack on Iraq not 15 years ago (2003) but actually 25 years ago, on March 29, 1993? I remember this as it was my birthday and I skipped crew practice to attend a protest at Stanford.
There are many great things about the States that I love. Arts and culture, Nasa, New York, to name a few, but war isn’t one of them. I don’t think you have ever ‘not been at war’ for any length of time in the history of your country, of course starting with the war of independence, Barbary wars, War of 1812, Mexican American war, Civil war, Spanish American war, WW1, WW11, Korean War, Vietnam, Bay of pigs, Grenada, Panama, Persian gulf, Iraq, not to mention the covert forays into central and South America. Please think twice before you decide to bomb Iran or North Korea. Hundreds of thousands of innocent people’s lives are at risk because of the person who occupies your Oval Office. We share a border with you and don’t wish to become collateral damage.
Nicholas thank you for this article although a tad late and your cast is all wrong. Firstly The Times has been spewing forth articles on bad Iran and bad Russia with such frequency that I have a couple of times checked too see if the ownership had changed, to say, a subsidiary of Halliburton. North Korea is all but a solved isssue if everyone would allow Trump his day in the sun, isn’t it more constructive to allow him a conference with Mr. Kim rather than create false scenarios around the move to save face for not doing it sooner, anyway not even we would be crazy enough to start a war in that neighborhood with Chinas BFF, seems to me we pretty much already did that not long after our fiasco in a Vietnam: many years fighting in N.K., many lives lost and much money later we got cheap electronics out of it. On the other hand Western Media have had one article after the other on bad Iran and bad Russia, maybe Bolton’s got a job already working for The New American Century crowd as news director at The Times. The dumbest thing we are doing is driving a wedge between the possible relationship between Trump and Putin, Russia along with Iran could help solve many problems in the Middle East if only we rid ourselves of the neo cons here, the ayatollahs in Iran, and those in Israel who want war with Iran and Russia. The majority from ALL these nations, especially the younger ones who do the actual fighting, want the same thing, peace and a decent life, get rid of ALL the dinosaurs!
1
Invading Iraq was the worst decision EVER, and we have to repeat it every day, to learn from our mistakes.
He will start a conflict because war time incumbents NEVER lose elections in the US. Simple as that.
Wrong.
Saddam was planning to restart his nuclear program. He kicked out the inspectors (installed after his previous nuclear program was dismantled in the first Gulf War). He was evading sanctions, and diverting money intended for humanitarian relief to his conventional weapons program (and palaces). If we hadn't gone in, he would have had nuclear weapons in several years. Then where would we have been?
The co presidentcy of cheney / Bush was the never to matched low of bad leaders we were ever likely to ever see again, EVER. Until...........I can’t stomach even saying it.
1
43% of Americans believe the Iraq war was a smashing success? But, of course they do! After all, 24% of Americans are unsure from what country the United States won its independence, while 18% of our fellow citizens assert that the sun revolves around the earth.
http://news.gallup.com/poll/3742/new-poll-gauges-americans-general-knowl...
Extrapolate those percentages: with a population of 325,000,000 there are 78,000,000 Americans who know nothing about the discoveries of the astronomer Nicolaus Copernicus.
Do these same people vote?
1
What a surprise: Republicans delving into an unending stream of lying, hypocrisy, and treason. Who would have guessed??
43% of Americans claim invading Iraq was still a good idea...but these are also the ones who keep voting for this den of vipers.
The real question is how do we rid ourselves of this yoke of Republicans? Deporting Trump would sound like a good start, but he in the canary in our coal mine. Really: he needs to be rendered irrelevant and all of them from Pence down need to be stripped of power and influence.
So how do we get that done?
As in 2003, I am less concerned about the talk than the unwillingness of Congress to stand up to the talk.
1
Either one of two changes could avoid most future wars. If the Iraq war cost us $24,000 per person then everyone should pay up in advance for the next war. The other change would be to reinstate the draft with no exemptions. Wars are not quite so profitable when your sons and daughters are dying in them.
1
I helped lead the anti-war efforts in Utah and the phrase "I told you so," just doesn't quite get it. Turns out I'm still singing to the choir. I believe only two things can save us 1) Remove all war powers from the Presidency returning them to the Congress 2) Restore the draft with a service requirement for all future members of Congress and zero deferments.
7
If a war starts in North Korea, the US troops we have there will be nothing more than a road bump to the 1.5 million NK troops. Seoul will be reduced to rubble and unless the US uses tactical nukes, it will take years to defeat the NK. This is a war we do not want to get into. Donald Trump has no business meeting with NK, he will only make the situation worse.
5
The decision to invade Iraq was not "mercurial." In a word, it was "Halliburton." In our hopelessly corrupted political system, one tenet applies: follow the money. Including or especially the $8 billion unaccounted for in Iraq, and the, according to The Fiscal Times, $8.5 TRILLION of taxpayer money unaccounted for since 1996. There is no war or disaster that cannot be a cash cow to well-placed individuals.
5
Dear Mr Kristof, please don´t call it a blunder. Call if what it was - a crime. If there was any justice, George W Bush and his posse would be tried as war criminals.
4
qui bono:
money talks and we all listen, if you are a war contractor war is good, if you sell ads on tv war is good, if you sell newspapers war is good, if you sell tanks, planes, uniforms, boots, belts, small arms, cannons, missles, war is good. The tv networks were compromised when the Nixon administration said it was ok for the army, navy, and marines ot advertise on tv. The TV execs had just lost the smoking advertising and hard liquor and opened their arms to an influx of advertising from the war department. Prior to that event we could count on seeing expose's o $10000 hammers and the horror of war, since that time we see, surgical air strikes and the glammer of war. Too bad the other branches of our government do not have the advertising budget to bring TV to heal.
2
The awful, human tragedy of the Iraq War, it's cost in resources and lives, it's destabilization of the region, the entire unforgivable proof of our own corruption, of our cynical betrayal of international responsibility has yet to be acknowledged by nearly half of the American people!
Depressing, astounding, unimaginable...
There is for me no greater proof of our pitiful lack of education and our ignorance- which is being constantly exploited by the Republican party bosses- to deliver up just more of the same.
Of that three trillion dollars- for which every American household paid $24000- how much came back as bloody investment profit for the top 1%, the investment class?
Arms, military supply contracting, have we forgotten already?
Blood for blood, have we cursed ourselves?
"...until every drop of blood drawn with the lash, shall be paid by another drawn with the sword"
Who now is in bond?
Who now is subjected to compulsion?
3
What is shocking about virtually all of the comments is the utter disregard for the huge toll America's war has had on the local population. The death toll for Iraqis is in the hundred of thousands, millions have been displaced and the country's economy has been set back decades. Iraq had no weapon's of mass destruction and had nothing to do with 9/11.
Meanwhile the US is selling vasts amounts of arms to Saudi Arabia as Saudi Arabia is waging a war in Yemen and threatening millions of Yemenis with starvation, disease and death. The same Saudis who have been exporting an extremist version of Islam through out the middle east and beyond. Let us not forget that 15 of the 19 9/11 terrorists were Saudis.
A war in Iran would again inflict a huge death toll on that country and set it back decades economically and decimate it's middle class. A great way to seed extremism for decades to come.
A war in North Korea is pure insanity. Seoul, the South Korean capital with a population of 25 million is within striking range of North Korean artillery.
4
I hope you're wrong but I know you're right. When the blinding light of truth reveals the depths of Trump's depravity, he will do anything to force the public to look away. This includes killing our children and murdering the Other without a sniff of remorse. I can only hope that people, ready to give up on this unholy behemoth of indecency, will say no d' way. We, the people, don't have faith that this man's complete lack of scruples is the faithful cornerstone of war.
4
The percentage of US people who still believe that invading Iraq was the correct decision is about the same as Trump’s support.
Interesting...
4
What happens when political leaders become unpopular and are unable to govern their people? They blame "others" and often start wars in an attempt to unite their country. I pray that history does not repeat itself and our young men and women are sent to die overseas again. In hindsight, what did the people of the US gain from wars in Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq? The only people who gain from wars are the stockholders and employees of companies who make huge profits selling their instruments of death. Even the war on drugs has failed our country. Sad!
4
Mr. Kristof - ever had a word with those of your fellow commentators, like Mr. Friedman and all of the conservative columnists on the pages back in 2003, about their support of the war? I mean really? Have you asked them why they claimed not to see what was clearly visible?
2
Trump did threaten a trade war in his campaign rhetoric and he did promise to cancel the Iran nuclear deal. So for two out of the three, everyone knew it was coming before they cast their votes. I have posted to previous articles saying the same thing, that Trump is very likely to create an international diversion, likely attacking North Korea if he can't get them to disarm, taking attention away from the Mueller investigation.
It's interesting that, when the Republicans get elected, they're like kids in a candy store. Unable to maintain a steady hand with trade or international relations, they start a shooting war or a trade war or go nuclear on the environment to show how tough they are to their base. Whenever they get elected to govern, the rest of the world starts thinking about back yard bomb shelters, stockpiling food and escape routes for the coming apocalpse....
46
I wonder if the blue collar workers i Trump's band ever stop to think about just whose kids will be in the trenches of any wars that Trump decides to start? And those kids on the plane with one commenter are thinking of it all as great adventure, but it won't be as exciting if and when the actual shooting starts.
I don't agree that "everyone knew it [a trade war, cancelling the Iran agreement] was coming before they cast their votes." Yes, Trump's views, sometimes contradictory, were public record and everyone could have known.
No, many Trump voters knew nothing more than that Trump shared and gave voice to their atavistic prejudices and meanness, and that his attacks on Hillary Clinton were endlessly entertaining to them. That was enough.
3
"Looking back, the biggest problem 15 years ago was that the administration was stuck in an echo chamber and far too optimistic." Mr. Kristof, that says it all. Optimistic? Arrogant is more like it. Can we trust Trump to act rationally? Not in a million years.
2
You forgot the internecine war already being fought here at home. President Trump, seeking only to be a “winner,” is little more than the Fear-Stoker-in-Chief. When citizens forget their common cause and turn against each other, it is at least as dangerous as bombs or guns.
2
The Iraq War was not a "blunder". It was a willful and deceitful campaign to begin a unwarranted war on trumped-up evidence and bogus claims.
2
The late historian Barbara Tuchman described this phenomenon well in her book
“The March of Folly”. From the Amazon review: "Twice a winner of the Pulitzer Prize, author Barbara Tuchman ... tackles the pervasive presence of folly in governments through the ages. Defining folly as the pursuit by governments of policies contrary to their own interersts, despite the availability of feasible alternatives..."
2
There was a op-ed just yesterday, that did not call this a blunder but a crime. What are your thoughts about that distinction, Mr. Kristof?
1
Re the 43% who still believe invading Iraq was the right decision and therefore would probably support another war with Iran—survey them about their geographic IQ and how many have any idea where the countries of the Middle East are, their various topography or their relative sizes. How many have any idea that Iran is almost 4X larger than Iraq?
1
America's future is to be determined by a man who does not read, does not take advice, and acts impulsively on an instinct born of nothing. Can't wait to read the book when this is all finished, and if I'm still alive.
In over 100 years - of overthrowing legitimate governments (Iran, Chile, Guatemala, ... many more) and of initiating wars of choice (Spanish American War, Vietnam, Iraq), we've never a single thing. 'American Exceptionalism' indeed!
2
I share your fear of conflict with this so-called administration. Particularly given DT's legal issues, conflict will be not only a dangerous distraction but a way for this violent narcissist to reinforce his delusions of power and grandeur. He cares for no one but himself. He is also surrounding himself with war mongers who will stoke Drumpf's fantasy of being a strongman. Terrifying.
1
Trump wants to destroy the Treaty we signed with Iran. At the beginning of his term he went to CIA and delivered a rambling speech about his election crowds he also remarked that in a Middle East war, or for that matter, any war, to the victor goes the spoils.
He said, as I recollect, that in the event we have to fight in Iraq or Iran, he Trump would not be leaving without taking their oil as a reparation. He said to the CIA people gathered. 'Remember what I just told you.'
Let the free TV press replay that speech at the CIA and it is clear Trump upon election was and is planning to make war.
We need to get him out!
2
This sentence towards the end of this piece makes my blood boil: "Democrats and the news media alike mostly rolled over."
Don't include me, please, or any of my friends and loved ones in your blithe inclusion of Democrats. We were HORRIFIED when we finally had to accept the fact that we were about to invade Iraq. There were demonstrations all over the US, because we all knew it was bogus, and the justifications offered by the Bush administration smelled like rotten fish. Let's revise history before it's in written in stone, ok?
2
If all of Trump's bellicose behavior is just a ruse to successfully extract trade concessions from China and Europe, I will hold my nose and vote for him in 2020. It is a high-risk high-reward strategy that has piqued my interest. Bold and foolish move? Perhaps, but time will tell whether we collectively win or lose.
Leaving aside the great damage to Iraq and it's people ( and I would love to know what happened to the Boy in the photo ) think about the Money. 24 Thousand Dollars PER household. What could YOUR Family do with that, in Cash??? What could we all do with that, for schools, infrastructure, Health Care, etc.? A truly colossal waste of money, and of lives. Bush was not too bright, but without Cheney's influence, and others, I don't believe he would have chosen this folly. Trump is another matter. HE would do anything to save his hide, no matter the effects or consequences. A lifelong, total disregard for others. Planet Trump, we are just passengers.
1
I believed then that Dick Cheney had the heaviest hand, and a financial history, and business and moral interests in the Iraq war.
The “heartless Vice President”lead our credulous President Bush into a war made up of whole cloth, by the hand. He is now invisible on the world stage, living with an implanted heart. But, his methods guaranteed a second term to his decidedly Saudi-friendly President. His methods would again guarantee this President another term.
And, it is sad, that our comments here, may have an plant or two, and “likes” made by Russians, just for fun.
Simple solution. Reinstate the "Draft".
1
'' $24,000 per American household'' cost of Iraq war.
Let's leave before it is $25,000.
And the American casualty count passes 4500.
Spend the next 3 trillion on alternative energy here and let ME learn to eat sand.
Colin Powell was right, re: the Pottery Barn rule. We broke it. We bought and paid for it.
Thing is, I don't think that we've ever truly come to the realization that we own it.
1
We are Americans, we choose not to learn from history so we are condemned to repeat the mistakes of the past, it is our God given right to be foolish and arrogant. Then we can write books about what happened and repeat the same mistakes again.
1
Unfortunately, nearly every action and statement by Trump and his administration is presented as the greatest sin of all time by the NYTimes and others. It makes it difficult for people to see the potentially cataclysmic danger coming from him when there is so much crying wolf going on.
A violent nation will always come to violent ends. I was born in 1943. In the intervening 74 years: About 1 million Americans have been murdered by other Americans, mostly by firearms; about 3 million Americans habe been wounded by firearms used by other Americans; America stubbornly launched a war of choice in Vietnam, killing 55,000 Americans and over 1 million Vietnamese; America inwaded Iraq in 2003, with the consequences noted by Mr. Kristoff; throughout most of this time racial oppression was enforced by savage Jim Crow “law” and lynching; most American females have been sexually harassed abd abused; more than 2 million Americans have died in automobile crashes, and many more grievously injured.
Let's all go to Trump's military parade with anti-war signs.
1
we have molded an Iraqi generation whose keenest memory and ethos will rightly cast the United States as a colonial power wholly indifferent to their culture and suffering. I'm afraid our deadly dance with religion-themed terrorism hasn't reached its climax.
On the one hand don't take comfort in Bolton's mustache. Remember Ty Cobb.
On the other hand, Cobb supposedly has urged Trump to comply with Mueller's investigation. So, may be the stache will be a moderating influence.
Among so many flaws, Trump's constant willingness to shoot from the hip with his angry mouth leaves him with no room to correct himself or tamp down the conflicts he causes. The three conflicts you mention are just the tip of the iceberg. Perhaps we may again go to war with Germany or Canada over his lies and insults. A trade war ala Trump would be one with the entire world.
I STILL do not understand why we invaded Iraq.
That 43 percentage of Americans who still believe that invading Iraq was correct are the same 43 percent who voted for Trump! " Hello" is right.
President Trump needs to read The Guns of August.
The nation is being lead, and subsequently the world, by an uninformed egoist.
A nation should not be run by 'likes' on tweets.
Wrong.
The invasion of Iraq was not "one of the most cataclysmic, expensive and idiotic blunders of the last half-century."
It was greatest foreign policy blunder in American history.
You are far more conscious than most people, Nick. Too bad you can't clone yourself into a dozen people. The average person wants food in their belly, a roof over their head, clothes on their back, and, if they have those, they want a car, a TV and money for sports. As long as we continue to dumb down public schools (with DeVos, that will speed up) we have a very uneducated populace who thinks reality shows are REAL, FOX is news, and DJT is "draining the swamp." Huge sigh.
Many of us knew before Bush was elected that he was going to look for war because "Saddam tried to kill my daddy," and Cheney was a great puppeteer to W, the dim bulb on the Bush bush. 9/11 was their perfect storm. Too bad the Dems went along.
The answer? Probably, as you suggest, more women. Especially more women who are not "conservative" which I consider the same as brainwashed. Jesus first, then "traditional" values, then money, money and more money, to solve every problem. Those of us who are "elite liberals" see the whole world, all those who suffer, and how much more could be done with the resources we have. War? No. We don't like war, or white supremacy, or the Kochs, Mercers, Murdoch or Trump the Chump.
Those of us who went into shock and mourning when DJT won are still there. THANK YOU for your columns. They give me hope. We need you so badly. They are always a ray of bright light for us "libruls."
I wish I could convince the Times to let you write every day.
People still support the Iraq invasion because Bush & Co. did such a great job whipping up racial and xenophobic hatred after 9/11. Anyone with their eyes open could see that they wanted us to conflate the real perpetrators —Saudi Arabia— with other Arab nations like Iraq, who had nothing to do with he tragedy. The crazy thing is, America went along with it! Sadly, this is a function of a culture where individuals do not think critically, and where we are too quick to attack anyone who is “other.”
1
I just finished reading Ronen Bergman’s Rise and Kill First: The Secret History of Israel’s Targeted Assassinations. Bergman reports how Meir Dagan, the head of Mossad, barely succeeded in sidelining Benjamin Netanyahu’s plan for a military attack on Iran. Is it possible that Netanyau and Trump, both under legal attack for misconduct at home, will conspire on a war against Iran?
1
Republicans hate government spending unless it's for unnecessary wars.
Lurking in the shadows are the many ethnic Russians in Latvia whom Putin probably wants to protect from whatever threat he can stir up. All Vlad needs is a wink and nod from his puppy Donald and security forces will ooze across the border like they have in Ukraine. Beware one on one meetings and phone calls. Europe will respond but what will the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave do?
As long as you have news outlets like Fox television with viewers glued to it like it’s the Bible truth, Americans will foolishly follow whatever the GOP mantra is for any given crisis! Sad to say but part of the reason we’re stuck in such a divisive period of time is due in large part to this brainwashing machine.
1
Trump and the Republicans need a war, stat...
W's drive to war in Iraq wasn't on a whim. Both Dick Cheney and the Republicans needed that war, and they succeeded in driving the USA into it.
The only thing that will block them is memory of the ongoing disaster that is the Iraq war, and enough good people to remind people of it.
The American Oil Companies also pushed hard for that war.
Mr. Kristof is careful to omit that the TIMES, like the rest of the US media, declared convincing Colin Powell's UN presentation of the case for Iraq possessing Weapons of Mass Destruction. Apparently history is now being re-written. The blame for the Iraq disaster now lies not with the untruthful media but . . . President Trump?
I do not understand why Mr. Kristof is more concerned about a potential trading war than the actual shooting wars being conducted by the US.
Why are thousands of American soldiers fighting in Syria? and dozens of other countries around the world? Fifteen years after 9/11? Why are we still killing?
In the Pew survey on the invasion of Iraq what percentage of respondents were "don't know/no opinion"?
A major difference between the invasion of Iraq and the present situation is that Iraq invasion was supported by many liberals including the New York Times and the Washington Post. Now, at least liberals seem to have their ideas aligned with ethical principles, which in the long run produce the best results for everybody. Presently, the only dark spot regarding liberals is the war in Yemen.
Acting like a global Empire never works out ---- either for the millions of people in countries 'abroad' who are killed, maimed, and destitute from ever expanding wars of Empire, nor the people in the metropole of the Empire 'at home' who are essentially looted of their domestic tax revenue, and increasingly propagandized, spied on, pauperized, and ultimately tyrannized by the corporate, intelligence, and policing forces in the homeland.
Which is precisely why the late great Jewish public intellectual, academic, and political theorist scholar of all Empires, Hannah Arendt tried to warn her own German people and all people that, "Empire abroad entails tyranny at home".
And which is why my only protest sign that addresses all the smaller 'identity issues', the more significant, but still subordinate, "symptom problems" (like wars, Wall Street looting, domestic spying, racism, et al.), and even our entire "ailing social order" [Zygmunt Bauman and Morris Berman] simply state on the front side "Dump EMPEROR Trump" and on the other side "We can't be an EMPIRE".
1
Its just a matter of time before Trump starts the next Crusades. Worse, it could be within our own borders.
Trump is not sure he can win reelection. In addition to playing in to the hands of the likes of John Bolton, the President views the instigation of a war as a path to eight years of office.
No one should be surprised when we invade North Korea. The only doubts I have are about whether we will simultaneously invade Iran.
1
"A recent Pew survey found that 43 percent of Americans still believe that invading Iraq was the correct decision."
This says it all. This 43% is roughly the percentage of voters who thought Trump was presidential material. What is to become of this country when so many of its inhabitants cannot add 2 + 2 and get 4?
6
Recently, in an interview some of the ignoramuses repeated lies from back then long debunked since.
If we want to decrease the chance of frivolous and reckless wars, re-institue the draft. This is perhaps the only way to re-engage millions of American families in really questioning the rational for almost perpetual warfare in the 21st century. Without more American families having a strong emotional reason to ask critical questions, we'll continue to blindly enter into armed conflict with countries that most Americans can't even identify on a map.
16
I concur. In Europe mandatory military service was abandoned in many countries. And this has let these countries to engage in foreign interventions, they would not have dreamed entering before.
4
Well - we had the draft for Vietnam and along with Trump many other wealthy people I know of didn't not face danger.
There is a palpable sense that things are rapidly coming to a head on many fronts, that we are approaching a climax. Just which spark ignites the fuse is the only question. Will it be financial, military, a constitutional crisis? The problem is, all the fuses are bound together. And we have given matches to an impudent sociopath.
20
Mr. Kristof, You do know that the answer to the question about the Iraq war is tribal. If a Republican sent us to war against Canada 43 percent would say, “Beat the ____out of them!” Based on that argument, you have every rational right to be worried that Trump will rev up his base with an unnecessary war to avoid being labeled a loser in the next election. How did we get to this tragic place? Thank you for being our sane commentator in this age of the American Montagues and Capulets.
14
It is Congress that has the power to declare war. If our gutless Senators and Representatives would do their job a President wouldn’t be able to lead us into a war. I have no confidence that Trump is capable of making a decision that is in the best interests of the country. He is too self serving. Any decision he makes should be looked at with skepticism.
12
Trump is itching to start a shooting war, but only against a country that can't fight back effectively -- i.e. Iran -- or a country that will take its revenge on another closer adversary -- i.e. North Korea.
9
That was what Bush/Cheney thought about Iraq. It was an easy target, it was a small country with a weak military, it would be a romp, all over in a month, and they'd be heroes. Bush was so sure of a win that he declared "Mission Accomplished" two months after the invasion. I think it's what LBJ & co. also thought about Viet Nam. One of the most puzzling things for me as a teenager growing up during those years was how the U.S. could be losing to a small country like that. It was the same thing that puzzled the Roman Emperor Trajan when he found that Parthia (that's Iraq to you and me, my friends) wasn't the easy conquest he expected, and why the mighty Roman Empire never really managed to subdue little Sardinia, even though it was right off their shores. Three words: Home. Field. Advantage.
8
Ditto for Vietnam.
Iraq invasion was a great idea. Bombing Iran and Korea even better. We're reducing youth and minority unemployment by expanding opportunities in the military. We're using up ordinance, financing the military-industrial complex to produce more. And, of course, we're diverting attention from irrelevancies like Trump's alleged sexual prowess. Getting back to business. Making America Great Again!
7
Your talk worries me, too, Mr. Kristof. You and so many other columnists seem like you are trying to get us to accept that this is coming so we might as well get used to the idea. No.
2
Only 43%, thinking invading/occupying Iraq was right, is an improvement, considering how many supported the war in the beginning. I'm sure there are plenty within that 43%, who still believe that Iraq was involved in the 9/11/01 terrorist attacks. Some people never seem to learn regardless of the facts.
10
The decision to invade Iraq wasn't "mercurial" -- it was anticipated even before Bush's inauguration -- and for pity's sake, can Mr. Kristof kindly stop referring to agreements which (for example) prevent countries from labeling junk food as such -- U.S. NAFTA negotiators insist no country should have that right, as this newspaper reported earlier in the week -- as "free trade" agreements?
Trump's impulsiveness promises horror, but an opposition as mired in cant and received wisdom as this one is helpless to confront him. He's the President precisely because much of the population is sick of establishment lies, preferring fantastical ones.
2
The invasion of Iraq wasn't simply a "blunder." It was a disastrous crime for which no one has been held accountable. And I well remember the role your paper played in the run-up to the war.
14
When one considers our own relatively-short and sordid history, the "Untied" States pretty-much became the "World's Leader" by default. Who's worse in that scenario: the leader of the flea-world, Donald J. Trump -- or the people who voted-for and support him? We're in our second Civil War, don't even know it, and very-vulnerable to death by suicide.
4
$3T and counting. And then there's the ongoing strife, death and destruction throughout the region. Ask any European and they might mention the massive immigration into Europe from all the war-torn countries, too.
Meanwhile, it almost seems like a footnote to point out that the Trump administration is planning on spending upwards of $1T to upgrade and modernize our nuclear arsenal. Why? Aren't the 7,000 old-fashioned nukes we already possess enough to keep us safe? And how come nobody's talking about it? I guess tweet storms and news of which new porn star is suing our so-called president is more interesting for that same 43% who think the Iraq invasion was a great idea.
Actually, this massive, horrendously expensive "modernization" campaign is not just another financial blunder, but also makes us LESS SAFE:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/05/opinion/noam-chomsky-on-trump-and-the... (the part about nukes is toward the end of the interview).
Why are we doing it? The only explanation I can come up with is that the military-industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about more than half a century ago is alive, well, and thriving. Until it all gets blown up, anyway.
$1T means $8,000 for every household in America. Imagine what we could do with that amount of money if used for education, job training/development, infrastructure, or fighting opioid addiction? Just imagine.
9
In 1953 we, along with Britain, overthrew Iran's democratically elected president Mosaddegh and installed the Shah. We then invaded Viet Nam. In 1973 the US over threw Chile's democratically elected Allende and Pinochet became dictator. If that wasn't enough we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. We are a warmongering nation and some day war will come to our door step. That is what happens when fear and ignorance controls a nation.
4
Referencing Mike Pompeo as "very smart" coupled with hawkish tendencies could result in a repeat of other "very smart" and hawkish individuals who gave us "Mission Accomplished". One lie compounded by another lie that led to the invasion and a "glorious victory"? When the statue of Saddam was toppled and the dictator was hung, a period of self congratulation and back slapping followed showcasing how "very smart" they were. Unfortunately the bodies of young men and women kept arriving at Dover air base having been blown up patrolling the streets in the cities of Iraq. This was something that "very smart" people did not expect because we were to be welcomed as conquering heroes.
Pay close attention to the triumvirate of donald, Pompeo and Bolton. History does have ways to repeat itself.
6
American are quit complacent and complicit when it comes to allowing or Military Industrial Complex to raise mayhem around the world;. We even honor our young men and woman that join the arms forces to perpetuate there many never ending horrors. Both major parties are to blame.
Peace people planet
3
Agreed - we seem to be in an era where anything but blind worship of all things military is treasonous.
If not a war with Iran, it will be somewhere. Presidents need a war to rebuild their brand with Americans. Johnson did that with Vietnam, Bush with Iraq. Both ended badly for America. But to presidents, it doesn't matter how they end or what the causalities are nor the long-term issues it creates.
That said, I don't as yet have the same dark feeling that I did in the run-up to the Irag war. For Vietnam, I was against it the entire life of the war but didn't realize it was so bad until it was. Maybe I should worry now. Trump is not focused on one thing enough to start a war, I hope. The longer we have Trump in office the longer he could start a war even if he is incompetent.
2
Here we go again.
When will the American people put the brakes on the carnage that American ambition inflicts upon those countries that can't stand up to us? How wealthy and well-off do we have to be? When will we be satisfied with enough and take care of our own citizens first?
$3 trillion? $24,000 per American household? 4,400 American soldiers (3,600 died in one day at Antietam). A half million Iraqis? We will never really know, yet who doubts that the numbers are obscene?
Humanitarian foreign aid is great, when asked for and appreciated. I'll gladly pay more in taxes for that. It's the moral thing to do, to share our country's good fortune with those in need. But we are the 600-pound gorilla. We are the bully on the world scene, now ruled and micromanaged and tweeted on daily by the bully in the White House who is more than equal to the task.
Chevy
South Hadley, MA
5
The Republican party attracts the kind of hubris that imperils our democracy because they always know better. Look at the Iran Contra scandal, Iraq invasion, Gorsuch seat, and Russia investigation.
4
Is that the same 43% that have in the most recent WSJ-NBC poll a favorable opinion of the so-called president?
3
Nicolas, you and several other Times columnists have such a visceral hatred of Donald Trump that blinds you to the fact that he is making the bold moves we have needed for decades, hopefully before it is too late.
Trade: a horrible period starting in the 1960's where the good jobs went overseas and the rich got richer. At the same time, barriers were erected against US goods and services.
Iraq: Irrelevant to Iran. Iran was always going to be a problem, and the nuclear deal does not stop their program. Agree that Iraq itself was a big mistake.
Korea: Might as well have it out now instead of negotiating for another 20 years until they have weapons we can't stop.
2
Are you volunteering to be in the first assault wave in either war? Brave talk with other's lives!
You do realize, Jack, that in your cavalier thinking on Korea, for example, "might as well have it out now" translates into the deaths of perhaps hundreds of thousands of Koreans on both sides of the 38th parallel. That's what Trump's similarly cavalier thinking could yield.
Conservatives have learned nothing from the blood and treasure we poured into the Iraq War. Nothing at all.
There is less than "almost no chance" that North Korea will agree to any sort of denuclearization, nominal or otherwise. Now that he is a verifiable nuclear power with ongoing production of more nukes than he needs, Kim's bargaining chip is the threat of selling nukes to raise much-needed funds. His only agenda in talking to Trump is to trade some assurance that he will keep his nukes to himself for a lifting of sanctions and a return to humanitarian aid. Without any credible alternative, Trump will likely accept this and crow that he has brought some sort of "stability" to the situation. (He will of course say that his predecessors failings made it impossible to rid Kim of his nukes altogether).
24
"Mike Pompeo, the C.I.A. director, whom Trump has nominated to be secretary of state, is very smart — and very hawkish on Iran."
It's possible to be simultaneously "book smart" and possess terrible judgement.
His obsession with any and all things "Benghazi" vis-a-vis Hillary Clinton is a flashing red 100 decibel siren pointing directly toward a hyper partisan and unbending world view that gives no oxygen to facts that don't fit into his preferred narrative.
The combination of Trump and Pompeo is not a delightful development.
82
Mr. Kristof,
yes, it worries many Amaricans. You know - why? We do not punish American leaders for wrong war. Iraq war is an example and the same may be true for Vietnam war. G. Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld all should face war crimes where many innocent amaericans and iraquis died. Because of war, Mr. G. Bush was reelected as well by GOP war mongers. A war crime against them could have deterred Mr. Trump of thinking going to the wrong war. If this state of affairs keep on going we will be worst than the thirld world.
3
I think Trump will pull out of the best nuclear deal ever made (because it was made by Obama). Then accept a much weaker nuclear deal with North Korea (because it was made by him) - and declare that the great Trump "fixed" things. Don't ever think this is about reality or the interests of our country - its about the image and brand of Trump.
91
No, we have not learned a lesson from Iraq and if a significant amount of Americans still believe we were correct in invading Iraq then they are sadly in error. For here's what's CORRECT as a resultant of that invasion: It cost us and untold people of that greater region the loss of thousands and thousands of lives; trillions of wasted dollars; the destabilization of the Middle East; the launching of the greatest displacement of people since World War II; and a marked decrease in our international credibility which to this day is only escalating under the Trump regime. The likelihood of a confrontation with Iran looms as Trump seems heel bent on destroying yet one more initiative created by the Obama administration.
1
I find it increasingly depressing and frightening to read the news each morning. My mental image is that of being a passenger, locked in a car with a driver I realize is drunk, with no way to get out as he careens around hairpin turns on a mountain road, sure to send us into an abyss. Although I am doing all I can as a private citizen to advocate for candidates who can rid of us this national security menace in the White House, we need those with power to act decisively now to impeach him or force him to resign (thinking Nixon). Sadly, we have a spineless, practically un-American GOP controlling Congress who seem content to let us go over the cliff, as long as they can clutch their riches as they fall.
8
I had a college history professor who often said "History cannot tell you what to do but it can tell you what not to do." I am not sure we Americans learn from our mistakes.
4
The simple fact is that America is a superpower, and saber-rattling is in our blood. Our weapons of war, in just two centuries, have outstripped our slowly evolving penchant for peace and cooperation -- we are cave dwellers inside. No lessons from Vietnam, Korea, Chile, El Salvador, Nicaragua, and so on, have penetrated that cave dweller psyche. And Trump exemplifies the cave dweller most completely. Unless Mueller can wave his magic wand, and soon, we are lurching towards disaster indeed.
2
When this next war begins, as I think it will, we private citizens will know for certain that we no longer control our Country....we really no longer have much of a voice.
4
War will be a wonderful distraction from Trump's problems with Mueller. The other day on "Morning Joe," former CIA director John Brennan opined that "I'm hoping we're not going to see a wag the dog scenario whereby he is going to try to distract the attention here domestically and politically on him and engage in some type of international initiative that is going to really put our nation at risk. Military action against North Korea, maybe doing something vis-a-vis Iran, tearing up the Iranian nuclear agreement and provoking and pushing for some type of confrontation in the Gulf." Some of us thought Bush was the worst president ever, but he looks like a statesman compared to the current resident of the White House.
10
War feels in the air alright. One thing I have noticed about Trump is that he goes back to his basic instincts. This is still the man that indicated that we have nuclear weapons so why not use them. I have no doubt that is how he feels about nuclear weapons although he corrected his public statements. For all our external sophistication and technical knowledge as a nation, we have elected a man who operates on the basis of dominance using all the tactics of a thug. He wants whatever annoys him to go away- evidently other nations also. Many feel he is in deep trouble with the Mueller investigation which means he continually needs a diversion because he doesn't seem confident in his innocence. A war would be a significant diversion from his troubles. Also, Trump does not operate with facts or logic so fabrication of a reason will do. The Republicans enable this man and are connected at the hip to the military industrial complex which serves only a few Americans well. Given their current record we can not look to the Republicans for help. Trump's cabinet gets increasingly hawkish for a reason. As we Americans have no real way to stop this, we are left to watch this possible train wreck develop with a helpless, anxious feeling. There is no control which we have over this matter; yet, we will be left with the fatalities, the injured, and the financial bill.
69
America has a very important election in Nov. 2018. That is how we can stop a train wreck.
1
I keep the hope and and I am active politically.
All too true - but there is something we as ordinary citizens can do to help, namely work hard and do our very best to elect a Democratic Congress in November, to somewhat neutralize the horrid thing in the WH.
1
As the Bush administration made their case against Saddom which was basically that he had and was hiding weapons of mass destruction (i.e. they were resisting inspections) it was clear to me at the time that they offered no real evidence that Saddom had such weapons and even if he had he certainly couldn't and defineatly wouldn't deliver them to the USA (the homeland). But they could not legally invade without some demonstration that Saddom posed an imminent treat to the people of the USA. So that pretext for invading Iraq was obviously spurious. The real case against Saddom was that he was in violation of agreements he made to end the first gulf war. But Americans just wouldn't be convinced that using this criterion was sufficient to invade Iraq, although legally it probably was. So they went to the kitchen, so to speak and cooked up a pretext for invading Iraq. To this day, I still have no idea as to why they thought this was a good idea. Trump is in an entirely different situation than Bush. First of all, I don't believe he has any real global ambitions. He is a a show man. He does the minimal that can appeal to his base. In that sense he is much less dangerous than someone like Bush who is a true believer in affecting the world using our military. So far Trump has yet to do anything that is truly dangerous.
1
The invasion of Iraq may have triggered the balkanization of the Middle East, not to mention the proxy war being waged in Syria.
The parallels to the pre-war periods of both WW I and WW II are more than a little disturbing to this writer. It is not difficult to imagine the three conflicts, or even more, envisioned by Mr. Kristof in this column.
I hope we are not unconsciously slouching our way toward Armageddon.
9
Nicholas nailed it. If one can't learn from history, one is doomed to repeat it. Go back one generation earlier to the ghastly war in Vietnam. Only two U.S. Senators valiantly voted against the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution that gave the green light from Congress to the Executive Branch to light the fuse for that war. Wayne Morse of Oregon and Ernest Gruening of Alaska stood alone to give thumbs down to that catastrophe. The build-up to Vietnam also seemed oddly parallel to today's drum beats of war over Iraq, North Korea and more. This tendency by the U.S. to strike out and kill could be rooted in the American expansion of a few centuries ago that swept genocide across the cultures of native Americans. Historians can debate that. But in the rush to the contemporary battles, let's not forget the mistakes that put us into the Vietnam debacle. This is the time for the Legislative Branch, including Congressional leaders, to embolden more like Morse and Gruening to place heroic wisdom before illiterate rantings of a dangerous and out-of-control Executive Branch.
15
It is interesting that the US could find $3 trillion to invade and destroy another county, when just the other day my House representative relayed the sad fact that we can't afford to finance public broadcasting. Yet somehow there is still enough money for an unnecessary and counterproductive explosion in defense spending.
That more or less tells you where this country's real priorities lie, does it not?
28
I am glad for this article. People forget the W years and the incredible deception tactics that were used to manipulate public opinion. Republicans sell themselves as fiscal conservatives instead all past GOP presidents have started at least 1 war and increased the debt.
The GOP is controlled by the weapons industry and they need to deliver when in office. As for deregulation, it just does not work other than to bring some short term euphoria in the stock markets. Finally, the pro-life but pro-gun rhetoric is so absurd that I cannot imagine how hypocrite people can be to buy into it.
It all stems from the nonsense of deregulating education. Allowing schools that teach curricula completely estranged from reality only multiplies the voters who cannot think for themselves and vote based on beliefs instead of a logical rationale.
35
I do not understand how this column does not mention the possibility of an Iraq style war based on our involvement in Syria. That seems to me to be a much more immediate threat, given the fact that US troops are on the ground and, in many cases, opposing Russian forces.
Iraq, Iran, Niger, and Syria...none of them are worth one single American life. Let them settle their own conflicts and we will deal with whoever wins.
8
You are forgetting that in the case of Iraq, this wasn't 'its own conflict', it was a war of aggression waged by the United States. And the only reason why it has been able to drag so long is the lack of a citizen army in the US. Had there been been a draft, I doubt that it woudl have continued for so long.
Bring back the draft, save democracy.
1
Baton in hand, a Texan president stands in front of Chorus America, each loyal American before him singing from the same song sheet, all proud to be Americans. Only a few have the courage to turn away. They face a rain of derision as they are reminded that they are not true Americans. They are given harsh labels such as: liberal, unpatriotic, un-American.
This President calls on everyone to stand together in this battle against terrorism. Those of his Washington advisors who do not agree with the music as he has written it, mostly leftover civil servants and generals from the previous administration, he quietly dismisses. Some leave Washington to write books about their dismissal, but in time their names and the names of their books fade into history. Being part of the president’s chorus is for most Americans an uplifting reaffirming experience. They can feel it in their hearts. It is like the singing of an old Southern Baptist hymn. Out life’s confusion and pain suddenly there appears on the horizon hope and a new beginning, a resurrection of sorts. As with the hymn, there is a sudden inner comprehension of the unknown, a comprehension that says: Yes, this is it. Here is the answer. I now understand.
Have we learned that lesson? We shall soon find out.
www.InquiryAbraham.com
9
Trump appears to be setting up the usual despot’s motive for consolidating power - an armed conflict. As Mueller approaches, Trump needs a good diversion: behind door #1 is a trade war with China, #2 reveals Kim Jon Il, #3 is a continued goading of Iran.
My guess, an armed conflict starts by mid-term elections.
11
our whole world lies waiting behind door number three
Trump lamented the world's disastrous arms race. Then in the next breath reminded us that nobody on the planet will come anywhere near the US in the stockpiling of arms.
I suppose the only hope is that his 'administration' becomes such a hairball with new strumpets suing him daily and the inability of any seat in the West Wing to get truly warm to ever have the bandwidth to go to war.
12
In your email about this column you sadly observed: "It astonishes me that 43 percent of Americans still believe the war (with Iraq) was the right choice, when it’s difficult to think of a more catastrophic decision in modern times." And we know from our catastrophic war with Iraq that we as a country believe we should "stay" with the man who led us into war. To think a war in 2019 might provide Donald with a second term is frightening. And a war with Iran would be horrific for both sides.
I think Trump dismisses all 10 commandments. Killing Iranians would be added to his cuts to Medicare and Medicaid which will lead to earlier deaths of the elderly (who are so useless). He lies daily bearing false witness about many, he has stolen from bankers, investors and sub contractors, he apparently commits adultery often and golf on Sunday is more important than worship. It is very hard to understand why evangelicals support this man. But with right to lifers - who apparently have no concern for the life of the born or those of another culture or religion - and gun addicts and an irresponsible, quiet, ineffective GOP Trump just might get his war and a second term. This scenario is very frightening.
27
Trump meeting with Kim is so that he can say "I tried everything else" if he decides a military strike would be in his best interest.
7
I can't figure out if war makes them more manly, distracts the nation in a tsunami of jingoism, or actually serves some personal purpose to the people who promote them.
One of the most quoted lines in "The Princess Bride" (artlessly thrown away by Wallace Shawn) is "Never get involved in a land war in Asia," a truism so obvious that it is a punchline for a movie villain. War with Iran would be unwinnable. We all know it, The Sicilian knows it, the world knows it. But Trump? He watches FOX and likely action flicks. He may not know it.
I didn't speak loud enough before Iraq. I argued with friends, and stated my case, but I didn't even write my Congressman. I naively thought others would know that if there were weapons, they'd already been shipped to Syria, or sold on the black market: we just end up owning an endless occupation.
I won't be naive this time. I won't be able to stop evil or stupidity, but this time I will at least try to put my voice on record.
16
Trump ran on a reform platform saying Washington, both Democratic and Republican, was a swamp. He said, America should not get involved in wars on the other side of the world which we did not have an interest in. But the Democrats have relentlessly attacked him. They attack him for being too tough and for being too weak. They attack him about things they campaigned for just a few years ago. In order to govern, Trump was forced to find allies who would work with him. Those allies were the right wing of the Republican Party. They were his enemies during the campaign. In reality, they are as much Trump's enemies as the Democrats are but they are working with him. If you are afraid that Trump will get us into a war, you have the Democrats to blame for it. Rather than work with Trump and try to find compromise, they have driven him into the arms of right wing militarists. And what is the one issue over which the Democratic Party has ruled out any cooperation? Legal and Illegal Immigration. The vast majority of Americans want to have reduced legal immigration and enforcement of illegal immigration laws. So if we find ourselves in a war, blame the Democrats. Trump's campaign shared massive issues with Bernie Sanders. Trump was willing to make deals. The Democrats refuse to come to the table unless we increase legal immigration and give amnesty to all illegal aliens living in the United States.
2
Mr. Green, your notions don't quite square with the facts. Trump financed his campaign with huge contributions from the wealthy donors who finance the Republican Party. He filled his cabinet with Washington insiders and Wall Street banksters. That just doesn't equate to draining the swamp.
He had a chance to reach out to Democrats with his first Supreme Court appointment, but instead chose to reach out to arch conservatives. That hardly qualifies as trying to find compromise with Democrats.
He attacked Obamacare without having the common sense to propose a workable healthcare alternative. That hardly qualifies as trying to find compromise.
If we find ourselves in a war, whether a trade war or a shooting war, it will be a war that started on Trump's watch. He, and his Republican majority will bear the blame. But real Americans want to peace and prosperity. We don't want another chapter of the blame game.
15
Uh, no. The arguments you make are just NOT true, Michael Green.
tRump was given at least three bipartisan immigration bills and he rejected all of them, even after assuring everyone that he would sign whatever they came up with.
Oh, what's the use? When commenters say things like "if we find ourselves in a war, blame the Democrats." it's pretty frustrating. If a republican president, aided by a republican majority in Congress starts a war based on lies AGAIN, it's not their responsibility?Democrats are mean to republicans and that starts wars, right?
5
Mr. Green....that is some of the most twisted and dangerous logic I’ve ever run across.
1
It's really scary to have in the White House an unpredictable man who thrives on conflict--with other politicians, with women suing him, with nations friendly and unfriendly to America (except for strong-man types like Putin). Yes, Trump,could very well plunge us into a long, horrific war.
11
The Iraq War is easily, IMHO, the worst foreign policy decision in US history - not just the last 50 years. It was illegal, unnecessary, absurdly costly to US taxpayers now and forever (the GOP Congress should have raised taxes to pay for it instead of just running deficits instead). A horrible mistake in every respect. Throughout history e.g. the break-up of Yugoslavia, African countries, on and on, show that countries patched together not respecting traditional boundaries fall apart when the strong man leaves. Do people there really care? A Chinese expert told me in 2007 we wouldn't see democracy in China in our lifetimes as long as people were economically secure and progressing. Iraq was total foolishness, and the same perpetrators have the tools again without knowing what they are doing. Thanks for the column - at least somebody is trying to follow Truman's dictum: What's new today is what you don't know about history."
9
I blame FOX News and fear the willingness of other media (like this one) to roll over so as to "earn" the goodies they can demand of an indebted administration.
Between 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq, I was online most of the time, reading anything and everything, esp foreign media and the reports of what they were telling people around the world. Network news/FAUX News were off my radar.
I knew there were NO WMDs left in Iraq! Clinton had successfully bombed anything left after the Gulf War. The UN investigators (particularly a famous guy whose skills locating banned weaponry even People Magazine extolled) had successfully searched and verified them gone. It seemed the world knew. While it greatly bothered me that Hillary voted for giving GWB the power to invade Iraq, Dems claimed they never expected that power to be used immediately.
The right wing echo chamber convinced Americans we had to invade--tho it seemed Bush took office looking for an excuse to go into Iraq. FOX News, churches, media drummed up excitement among their viewers. Iraq could have given Bush/Halliburton/Cheney the land to build a pipeline to get Afghanistan & Iraq's oil to the Persian Gulf. No studies or legality... Now Trump is making similar noises for other reasons...he's using the govt as a profit-making tool just as Cheney did.
Trump's fans were burned by Bush last time, but only they can stop their guy this time...Iran would be a bigger disaster than Iraq, even less allies, more enemies.
9
No one in the Bush Administration was ever held accountable for the death and destruction. Trump knows this all too well. On this we can blame Obama.
7
No, we can blame the fact that America never accepted the authority of the International Courts exactly so that its presidents would never find themselves accused of war crims or acts of aggression. America preaches to the rest of the world and then gives itself a pass. And of course Obama is no exception. But he's hardly the only guilty party. The guilt is collective.
1
"Hello?"?
43% of Americans still believing that invading IRaq was the "correct decision," is pure genius compared to:
almost 100% of Republicans, still supporting Trump, and
over 50% of college educated white women having voted for him in the first place.
Were the Founders deluded in believing in us?
14
At least some of them warned of political parties.
Just imagine how good Trump nuking North Korea and the inevitable response will be for American business. If I were a foreigner, I would make sure to never buy American again. We will forever be a pariah state and be remembered as causing millions of deaths. World War II with 60 million dead will seem like small potatoes. Heck, we may just extinguish life. How is that good for the GOP and American business? In a closed system such as earth, the nuclear fallout will respect no boundaries.
8
Some may read Nicholas Kristof’s column today as too pessimistic, but the column is disturbing because it is too realistic. The recitation of unnecessary crises created by Donald Trump and the men who surround him is scary because most literate adults know every word is true.
The situation today is much worse for America and the world than was the state of affairs which existed fifteen years ago when George W. Bush and Dick Cheney invaded Iraq.
Part of the reason things are worse is because of the damage done by that Bush administration.
Part of the reason is the steady rise of the dictatorships in Russia and China.
A large part of the deterioration exists because Donald Trump is intellectually and emotionally unfit to be president, and because the hyper-partisan Republicans controlling Capitol Hill have signaled a willingness to cover up treason, rather than displease the president.
Under anything other than the most optimistic scenario, this is not going to end well.
9
Why do we Americans keep making the same mistakes over and over, only with a different president?
Iraq with Bush, and Trump, against all good judgment, getting elected in the first place.
We never learn from our mistakes, our list of unnecessary wars just getting longer and longer.
China and Russia becoming more authoritarian in response to a weaker and more disorganized America. America's weakness is both an aggressors opportunity and a frightening prospect with a loose cannon president like Trump.
The longer Trump is in office the more danger for the world. We cannot wait for elections to replace Trump. Pray that Mueller gives us the necessary ammunition!
6
The academic study Mr Kristof refers to has been the subject of great controversy, and has been criticized as deeply flawed, based on highly questionable estimation methodologies. It probably exaggerated the casualties (as of 2011) by about a factor of five. This issue is very well known, but Mr Kristof cherry-picks statistics and studies to suit his biases.
" It PROBABLY exaggerated the casualties (as of 2011) by about a factor of five."
Source?........other than faux news.
kinda like when trumps says " people say" or "people are saying" or "others are saying", to make others think "his" words/thoughts are universal, when in fact he's the only one that thinks (?) the way he does.
1
I take it you're one of the 43% who think it was a good decision for the USA to invade a state illegally on false premises, destroy it utterly, kill many thousands, and still remain there without an exit because it didn't have a rational plan to begin with.
1
One example:
"Half a Million Excess Deaths in the Iraq War: Terms and Conditions May Apply"
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2664659
iraqbodycount.org/database has a very comprehensive accounting of documented civilian deaths. I just went back and added up their annual numbers, and I come up with about 118,000 up until June 2011, which was the subject of the study. (I was recalling on the order of 100,000, roughly - not far off, that's why I said probably, compared to Kristof's 500,000). But the study itself stated "95% uncertainty interval 48,000–751,000", so think abut what that means.
I understand your skepticism but this really was the subject of a lot of controversy back then. If you have the patience, do some research on it. It is too detailed to describe in a comment, though I think I've given you something to start with. It was not a cavalier statement. The devil is in the details. It is Kristof who is cherry picking his stats. He doesn't see fit to mention how controversial the study was, and that is unfortunately typical of his use of statistics.
I do believe the Iraq Body Count number of 180,000 - 200,000 until today - which includes the ISIS slaughter.
My comment is not abut the wisdom or criminality of the invasion of Iraq. It is about media distortion.
We have good reason to be concerned that Trump will actually look for an opportunity to get the US in a shooting confrontation with Iran.
Doing so would provide Trump with some personal "benefits". He'd probably get a short term boost in his Job Approval polls. War usually give the President a short term boost in the polls. G W Bush got a 12% boost when he began the attack on Iraq in March of 2003.
Attacking Iran would please Netanyahu and Adelson...two people he gives a lot of attention.
Assuming Trump did attack Iran and did get solid boost in the polls that would put him in a better position to fire Mueller. He could claim "we're at war, the investigation has run its course, as of today, it's over."
To pull off this "coup" he'd have get rid of the Generals...Kelly, McMaster, and
Matthis. They'd fight him all the way...especially Matthis.
Trump is fully capable of causing tremendous loss of life to get a short term political advantage.
6
I have lived in this country for more than fifty years and I have yet to understand the strange Orwellian gleam I see in America whenever a war is coming.
8
Cause we were never sufficiently defeated. This is the gleam in the eyes with which Germans and Frenchmen marched into war against each other in 1914, because some Anarchist shot a Duke in Serbia - unrelated to each of them. They marched into those wars like football fans march to the stadium.
There are many regimes in the world that are more heinous than the US government. The problem is that the US is currently being led by a man who is solely motivated by his own narrow interests and that he is being fully enabled by the GOP and people such as Murdoch and the Koch brothers. When you combine this lack of control over a President who is completely out of his depth, a hugely powerful military then the US becomes one of the more dangerous countries in the world as it has the ability to light firestorms. What is more its "optimism" about it is innate capabilities being the best in the world leads it to think - especially the likes of Trump - that everything is easy. Forget whether or not you agree with the invasion of Iraq, what should worry all Americans is how incredibly poorly that war was executed by those currently in power. None of the objectives set out by the Bush administration were achieved and in fact, as the article points out, the opposite of those objective was more often than not achieved. The real rise of Iran was made possible by the US creating a vacuum in Iraq. If D-day had been organised and led in the same fashion as the Iraq war then in Europe we'd all be speaking German or Russian. I hope the US wakes up to the fact they are led by a president who may well start a war just to create a distraction from his many scandals.
4
There are inded regimes that are more heinous than the US goverment. Just not to the people that US goverment has attacked, occupied or destroyed, by itself or through its proxies. And that list is long: Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Syria.
1
We signed our future as a nation away when we did away with the draft. When only the needy sign up for the military and no one in Congress has a stake in the outcome because their children are not affected, we have a fifteen year war with no end in sight. Why is this fact not recognized?
9
Leela,
As a 30 year Air Force veteran, I understand your concerns. But, as one who was forced into initial service in 1966 by the draft, most people rebelled against the draft in the late 60s and this led to lottery and then all volunteer forces. There is a wide-range of demographics in the military other than "needy." Many volunteers come from military families who have served our nation for generations. Think of Sen. John McCain, whose father and grandfather were Admirals! There are also plenty of middle and upper middle class men and women serving in responsible positions. I agree that if more legislators had sons and daughters serving, there would be more motivation to bring the conflicts to an end. Perhaps we should question our representatives regarding their patriotism if they are not willing to sacrifice for a conflict?
1
Not a bad article. But as a military man you must be also a man of history. Since the second world war, with the exception of the Cuba crisis and the cold war in Europe, all hot conflicts we were engaged in where started by us.
I hear people are too busy with their own lives to notice when they're being hoodwinked.
Out of the blue in the late summer of 2002, United States Vice President Dick Cheney declared Iraq the real enemy after 9/11. I recall saying, "Iraq! What is he talking about?"
But he kept up the drumbeat for invasion and, by 2003, journalists were salivating at the prospect of being "embedded" with the invading troops.
In early 2003, I joined 17 million Americans in nationwide protests against invading Iraq, I will never forget the sinking feeling I felt when the supercilious dauphin, G.W. Bush, selected to be president by the U.S. Supreme Court, dismissed the 17 million as "a focus group."
We now have the 45th president, selected by the Electoral College and even more dangerous in his hubris, heading down the same, senseless road.
in Iraq, soldiers fell to roadside bombs with severe concussive injuries and returned home forever changed, to be deployed again and again. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld shrugged without shame over going to war, "with the Army you have."
The 17 million protesters were not enough to stem the heartbreak that continues to this day. Everyone who finds the prospect of another senseless war to be revolting, please report to Main Street, U.S.A.
8
Yep.
And what percentage feel we were right in Vietnam, which was supported by four (or five) presidents of both parties. The disease is patriotism, that no elected official is prepared to challenge (all of both parties wear the little American flags on their lapels)
As far as condemning Trump, he and his supporters feed on this. The more vitriolic the rancor, the more they are justified in joining his posse, defending true Americans against the weak willed liberals who won't stand up against the world.
3
I'm sure the military contractors are salivating with the prospects of billions of tax dollars in their pockets from new military actions. This is one of the reasons the U.S. has no money to stabilize Social Security, repair infrastructure, educate our children & provide health care. What a pathetic lot we are.
8
For all of the wondering about what the risks and consequences of the next ill-advised war are, my heart wonders what happened to the boy in the photo. He has lived with the consequences for 15 long years, if he still lives at all. He is one of thousands ..... that thought should draw tears even from a stone.
3
My reading of the tea leaves is that Trump is cozening up to the Saudi's and Israeli's with the intention of getting them to lead the start of a war against Iran with massive military and financial support from the US. In 2002, while living abroad I had the sense that Bush was going to make war on Iraq. And, unfortunately I have the same sense about Trump.
3
It's all a set of tin soldiers for him. A dangerous child leads this nation.
I disagree with this statement:
"So 15 years ago this week, the United States careered into one of the most cataclysmic, expensive and idiotic blunders of the last half-century: We invaded Iraq."
In my judgement the invasion of Iraq was the worst strategic blunder in the history of this country. The unfortunate results will continue for decades. And the Trump administration is actively stripping away dedicated and serious civil servants from all branches of the executive each of whom swore allegiance to uphold the Constitution. In our time now these folks who are bearing up under this attack are our heroes.
2
In case you kids missed it, the Rand Corporation/think tank/neocon organization recently published a study claiming that the U.S. will likely lose the next major war it happens to aimlessly wander into. All those weapons sales the one-percent have been profiting from? They have helped close the weapons gap to the point that we ain't so tough anymore. And just this week our Dear Leader is "negotiating" the transfer of $1 billion in advanced smart weapons to the Saudis. But they love us, right?
2
Iraq from 1990-2003 was not a tranquil place. There were human rights abuses against Kurds and Shiites. Weapons inspectors found prohibited weapons, until the inspectors were ejected. There were large no fly zones and the constant threat of a downed U.S. jet. Clinton bombed Iraq in 1998. Babies were dying due to economic sanctions--one UN estimate was that 576,000 children died due to sanctions from 1990-1995 alone (https://www.nytimes.com/1995/12/01/world/iraq-sanctions-kill-children-un....
What would Iraq and the Middle East be like had Bush not invaded Iraq? We can't possibly know. But the columnist, he is certain.
Anyone with a knowledge of history, Tanstaafl, knows that a) Saddam Hussein was emboldened BY the United States to wage war on Iran, which he largely lost but at great cost to Iran, and Iran hasn't forgotten that; b) once you start unravelling the countries created after World War I in the Middle east theyr'e no telling where it will end c) Iran's anti-Americanism is based on Americas's deposing their elected leader. So the USA actually destroyed democracy in Iran, and now wants what - to change the regime again! d) Iran, unlike the Arab countries, has a long history and is not liable to being broken up.
1
Of all the wars that worry Nick Kristof, the one that concerns me most is that involving North Korea .
I do not believe a trade war is really in the offing . The steel and aluminium tariffs were largely motivated , I believe, by electoral concerns and further negotiations will most likely further diminish the number of targets or provide face saving outs from an ill conceived stunt .
An attack on Iran would be either demented in the case of a nuclear strike or bound to fail (see Iraq) in the event of a conventional option . There is little doubt that the US would be unable to even assemble a Bush-like "coalition of the willing" .
As regards North Korea, on the other hand, I believe the omens are bad . If you listen to all the utterances of Kim, however outlandish they may be and however loathsome his regime, they are always placed in the context of what would happen , should North Korea be attacked . He never has even hinted at the possibility of a first strike .
But the mere possibility of a "bloody nose" first strike as seriously and openly considered as a strategic option by trump's Pentagon will only hasten the final steps in the development of North Korea's nuclear capacity and is therefore counterproductive . Furthermore, should the US go through with such an insane action in a futile muscle flexing exercise , it would inevitably cause a reaction from China, for whom North Korea's very existence is a paramount strategic imperative .
2
My prediction is that before the campaign for 2020 starts we will be at war somewhere, because Americans tend to feel they need to support the Commander in Chief during war time. A quick fix for lagging approval ratings.
3
Kristof says that half a million Iraq have been killed during our occupation.
The number I read from various sources was over a million killed, millions of orphans remained behind.
His cost numbers, as well as his fatality numbers look conservative.
Is this what it felt like in Nutzee Germany, to be a person with a conscience and see so many people killed under the authority of your nation.
The most logical explanation is that we did this for oil, for all the worlds oil companies, who could not get pumping contracts in Iraq before the Iraq war but now have 20 and 30 year contracts to pump oil.
It makes me not want to drive my car anymore.
4
Thank you, Mr. Kristof. I have been waiting for what seems an eternity for balanced counterpoints to the ridiculously one-sided articles that appeared on these pages by Nikki Haley, Bret Stephens and others.
The war agenda must be stopped in its tracks. It is galling to see the indifference with which 'Prince' Salman's war shopping expedition has been greeted by the mainstream media, and the disgustingly craven, fawning manner in which your 'President' begs him to buy "our beautiful weapons". Has the world gone completely mad?
It is the duty of the NYT editorial board to do all within its power to prevent the 3 madmen (Trump, Salman, Netanyahu) from triggering Armageddon. As the brilliant Dr. Vali Nasr has repeatedly explained, Iran's support of its proxies, and its conventional missile development, represent a 'forward defensive approach' to deter an attack of the type it suffered from Saddam Hussein's U.S.-supported invasion in 1980. If such an attack is repeated it will be disastrous for Iran, Israel, Saudi Arabia and all U.S. forces in the region.
Iran has not attacked or invaded another country for over 200 years, which is a lot more than can be said for the U.S. and Israel. You manage to justify your repeated attacks, bombings and invasions with amazing nonchalance, but don't allow Iran to justify its clearly essential deterrents? Suspicious, to say the least.
3
3 $trillion, a terrible lot spent, not in prevention, but to only build the pretexts to the next wars. A terrible lot taking us further from the urgent necessity to get us off of oil and on to a sustainable way of living on earth. So, goes our fate with both bang and whimper.
Let's have a parade of arms to reveal our utter insanity. A show we are not long for the world.
3
Lou Nelms - Very sadly, you are right and many of us are sickened by our Resident in Chief and his weak-kneed Republican friends.
1
Hello yourself, Nick!
The last correct decision about invasion was FDR finally convincing Congress that Churchill was right. Just in the nick of time.
Every conflict since then has been a lukewarm disaster that we ended up losing along with the lives of thousands, save Iraq.
We did what we said we'd do. Nearly half agree. Even if it was wrong, seen by the other half.
There's a conflict of values that results in no win.
1
There is a fourth looming risky situation although it is lurking in the shadows. There are the many ethnic Russians in Latvia whom Putin probably wants to protect from whatever threat he can stir up. All Vlad needs is a wink and nod from his puppy Donald and security forces will ooze across the border like they have in Ukraine. Beware one on one meetings and phone calls. Mr. Trump lacks the depth of understanding required for his one man foreign policy. Europe will respond to a Baltic incursion but what will the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave under Putin's pal do?
2
Mr. K is making the error of listening to The Donald's words. This is how the Con Man thrives - he does one thing to distract your attention, while stealing your watch. Sneaky Don is a first class grifter - there is no personal profit to be taken from wars with Iran or N. Korea. The Donald is using the classic bluff move ion both - he attempts to threaten them, then goes easy on them while face to face. A few years from now we will be hearing about a fabulous new Trump Tower Tehran and the greatest golf course ever in Pyongyang. Please enjoy the comedy for what it is. We have a TV star who is entertaining us 24-7 - ratings are at an all time high and we are finding that our "leadership" in this country is superfluous - this country is on automatic pilot - enjoy the ride and think of the stories that we will be telling our Grandchildren about the time when a cartoon character was our President.
1
The Bush Administration also managed to convince a number of Americans that Iraq was involved in 911.
5
I have met folks who claim this lie today, still.
Eliza - Thank you for your comment which shows the ignorance and greed of the people in the United States which will affect the entire world with disaster.
1
I think Trump and Kim will reach an agreement. One is a dictator, the other is a dictator wannabe. They've each rattled sabers and gotten their people fearful of being nuked. Now they come to an agreement and come home heroes. North Korea stops testing but keeps what it has. Trump reduces sanctions, agrees to things Obama would have been vilified for, but enough people are relieved we will not be nuked that he comes out ahead.
He walks away from the Iran deal, but so what. Bibi is happy, his supporters are happy, and Europe and the rest of the world keep trading with Iran without us.
As to tariffs and trade wars, Trump goes easy on countries and companies that figure out how to enrich Trump family enterprises and raises tariffs on others. The economy suffers in the long run, but Trump comes out ahead.
Remember, it's not the national interest that is important, it is the Trump personal interest that counts.
And please tell me who is going to fight these wars? Certainly it won't be Don and Erick.
3
Trump is forming a war cabinet. We may have a war scheduled before the November elections.
3
House of Representatives could create enough of a drought cycle beginning in 2018 that the small eyed big fanged creature does not find the oasis it is in search of. Increasing codependence on Russia might mitigate conflict with North Korea, if Putin is allowed to back seat drive for Trump. Trump has never worked as a chauffer before in his life.
One can only hope the destruction of his body does not destroy his mind. Looking at and thinking of his loss has taken a part of me.
He and millions show the tragedy of war. The feeling of emptiness.
What is wrong with us? What is wrong with men?
1
85% of Republicans believed (and probably still do) that Barack Obama was born in Africa and is Muslim. 60 million of them voted for Trump. We have a serious, serious problem. Trump is a problem but he is a bigger problem because he was brought to us by the Republican Party. He is those 60 million voters.
Think about this. 500,000 Iraqis died. These are human beings, real people. But you never hear that discussed, only American lives lost. What if 500,000 Americans died.
3
It's messed up that only about 10% of the American public can understand what you are writing about Mr. Kristof. A box of rocks has more brains than most in this country.
2
Thank you for including the photo of the Iraqi teenager who lost his legs in one of the bombings made by us or our allies in the Iraq war. A young life shattered by an American decision. If this photo being seen by millions of Americans helps us think twice about the so-called glory of war, then his suffering will not have been completely in vain.
85
More
Americans would be thinking twice if we still had a draft -- a national service requirement. It was middle class families terrified about losing their sons that propelled the anti-Vietnam war movement. Now we have a "volunteer" army composed of people who see military service as the best economic option, and who live in a relatively closed community where group-think is powerful. And the rest of the citizens don't care and hardly notice the casualties.
1
The thing is, that we learn from history that man doesn't learn from history.
and we have a president who has never learned anything, knows nothing and considers himself a genius.
3
Mr. Kristof,
It's great to be alarmist when all the alarm bells are ringing already (our house is indeed on fire), but I don't think your comparison of Trump and the Bush team makes any sense.
After HW Bush ended the war for oil in Kuwait with Saddam Hussein still in power in Iraq the crazies in the neocon wing of the GOP started pushing for a war specifically with Iraq to depose Saddam. This was at the same time that actual slogans like "Nuke Iran" were showing up in party conventions; meaning the neocons were hellbent on getting into a war in the middle east to secure even more oil, and to ameliorate the perceived weakness of Bush père at letting Saddam survive. The drive to oust Saddam specifically was clear for years to those who opened their eyes (not the NYTimes, just btw).
Trump is a coward who measures his success in the millions he walks away with time and again from bankruptcy court, while his employees get stranded. He has no animus towards any country, and his sycophant staffers (unlike Rumsfeld et al.) don't either.
Our nation has already gone to the dark place, but an actual hot new war is not in our future.
1
I think the calamity of Bush's military adventurism can never be remembered enough. It was, and still is, one of the greatest foreign policy blunders -- if not crimes -- in US history.
Having said that, I do not think Trump is smart enough to figure out how to start a war. Bush had Cheney and Rumsfeld, who had their eyes on absurd militaristic fantasies. Bush alone never could have fabricated the Iraq charade.
Trump, who makes Dubya seem like Bismark, has no one. Is Ivanka going to scheme out a new conflict? Is Jared (who can't even manage to finagle a single deal gone sour in Manhattan real estate)?
Josh Bolton, even if we granted him the strength of Hercules, could not adequately manipulate these people into a fake zoning dispute. This administration is not even a paper tiger: it is soap bubbles, with Donald as some dystopian Lawrence Welk hoping we all just keep tuning in.
I predict rather, the US will just sink further into being a joke, a gullible group of privileged airheads, who could not start a war even if Fox and Friends started showing them maps and targets. But meanwhile, American power will suffer: destroying value as they increase their brand visibility is what the Trumps do best. It is their entire shtick.
I have no idea how Americans became such a sheepish, easily manipulated people. The level of nationalistic noise and chaos preceding the invasion of Iraq was deafening. It completely drowned out all opposition to waging war against a fake enemy. "If you ain't with us, you're against us." The 8 most threatening words uttered by despots, drunk with power.
If, indeed, 43% of Americans still believe we were justified in attacking Iraq, then it's only a matter of time before the recruitment centers open again, and young Americans attack yet another country that never attacked us.
3
There is a remedy. We can choose not to follow another arrogant president down a rabbit hole. The choice begins in November. Throw Republicans out of all government offices.
When Democrats take control of Congress immediately hold hearings on Trump's many transgressions of Constitutional authority (the emoluments clause would be a productive beginning); immediately begin impeachment proceedings; immediately publish an apology on behalf of the American people, to our allies and the world at large, expressing our regrets for the past 2 years of lunacy, our intention to make internal corrections and pursue accountability and our intention to reestablish our good relations and former responsible membership among nations.
November is much more than a month, more than an election; it is an opportunity to correct America's greatest mistake and hold him and his party accountable.
3
I am confused. Sarah Sanders just said we do not interfer in how other countries conduct their affairs. Oh I forget. She was talking about Russia. There is zero chance that North Korea would attack the US.
Let's add that of course Trump is going to want HIS OWN SPECIAL WAR - that's the clear and present danger!
1
That 43% probably think that it was right because we 'got' Sadaam, but, though a bad actor, he wasn't the real threat. I do think, though, that getting Sadaam was want drove Cheney, Wolfowitz et al. All through the 90s they wrote about it. It seems to have killed them that their guy, George HW Bush, lost the election & power, but that Sadaam still ruled. Because they had no clue about the culture and no Plan B in case their sunny predictions did not play out, hundreds of thousands died or where maimed, billions have been spent, and 15 years later Iraq is a destroyed 'country.'
16
Actually it was much bigger than Saddam for the neocons. Read up on the PNAC. Even though they took their site down, you can still find archived material, and it is disturbing. John Bolton was a key player...so what could possibly go wrong by giving him access to international relations.
1
I knew the day the US invaded Iraq that we had made a big and costly mistake. Indeed, I have maintained since then that Bush and Cheney should have been tried for war crimes. But, they got away with it. History, so far, has only been mildly critical of that action.
26
Bill, our kids learned the lesson first hand, through Bush-Cheney example: you can attack others, murder maim destroy ancient civilizations, and still get away with it. They are learning when you are a rich and powerful nation, you can get away with anything, and still not be answerable. They have also seen, in their lifetimes, huge banks and financial institutions swindling the public big time, but each time the government stepped in and BAILED them out, leaving poor and middle class customers holding empty bags, their pension gone, their future starting from scratch.
1
The one thing, pretty much the ONLY thing, that Trump said during his campaign that I could wholeheartedly agree with was that he didn't want to get the US into more costly foreign wars.
But here we are. Military funding is skyrocketing, bellicose talk as Kristof details is constant; with the hammer of a strong military, every international problem is going to look like a nail which only the military can solve.
19
And the refugees that flood Europe? And the MILLIONS displaced from the Middle East? The Iraqi war triggered the largest refugee crisis since WW2. The collateral damage from the Iraq War undermined both Europe and the Middle East, creating a boogie man for Brexit and Trump. The ripple effect has changed our world completely.
24
Excellent column, especially the remarks on Iran.
These are cautions worth heeding.
15
"Looking back, the biggest problem 15 years ago was that the administration was stuck in an echo chamber and far too optimistic, and Democrats and the news media alike mostly rolled over. Journalists too often acted as lap dogs, not watchdogs — and today I fear that we may be so busy chasing the latest shiny object that we miss an abyss ahead."
if Trump appoints John Bolton, along with Pompeo, and these folks are confirmed, that echo chamber will suddenly get ferociously loud.
But the one thing different this time is the vigilance of the press. During the age of Trump. We are seeing a rise of serious reporting and journalism like never before.
I marvel at how and where reporters are gathering and distilling information to keep shining that bright light on an administration growing increasingly nefarious.
You are certainly part of that, Nicholas, clearly outlining here the threats that face.
Unlike the public, reporters won't stay silent to watch history repeat itself.
I wish the fractious public also grow more concerned about what's happening to our democracy before wars become a smokescreen for presidential wrongdoing.
23
Excelent comment..yes thanks to Nicholas and all those hardworking reporters.
1
I wonder if the 43 percent of Americans who still believe the Iraq invasion (war) was the correct course of action are declaring so because they refuse to concede the deaths resulting from this terrible decision were wasteful. This is an awful admission. Yet one which logically follows given the devastatingly crystal clear results of our action in invading Iraq.
It seems we are repeating history again; big shock, with almost no thought given on how long a conflict with Iran would take and how to extricate ourselves once the mission was 'accomplished'.
Why can they not see what almost everyone else can?
Or worse, if they do see the consequences, don't care.
16
To understand how 43 percent still believe that the Iraq invasion was correct, one only has to watch faux news. They still to this day, peddle the fantasy that Iraq had WMD. When you have a third of our nation feasting on propaganda on a daily basis...it's hard to have a real democracy.
1
Both George W. Bush and Donald Trump won elections because of an outmoded electoral college. The majority of voters (this time nearly three million ) did not vote for Donald Trump . Some states are now trying to circumvent the electoral college through an electoral compact.
Perhaps we should put our faith in the majority of voters. Isn't that the idea of a democracy?
34
Get over the Electoral College. It is not fair that we have an appendix but that is the way it is. So deal with it. It is not going to change. You might as well argue that the Earth should slow down in its rotation so we could have two more hours in a day.
1
I agree. And as for the 43% of Americans who think that invading Iraq was the right decision, that pretty much correlates with the 40% of the population who support Trump. War will be Trump's manipulation to get re-elected!
Bring back the draft. When everyone's child must serve, there will be more though given to supporting wars!
19
In New York alone, many thousands marched to protest the coming invasion of Iraq. Yet some of us knew then that history was a bitter pill for many Democrats. When House Democrats voted against the earlier venture, Desert Storm, they were punished heavily at the subsequent election. "Stormin' Norman" pushed Saddam’s men out of Kuwait with great pomp and great slaughter, ending on Feb 28, 1991. In the heady days that followed for the GOP, we missed the rise of Al Qaeda, the spurt in nastiness in national discourse and politics, and the threat of 9/11. On St. Patrick’s Day 2003. Bush gave Saddam 24 hours to get out of Dodge. He didn’t, and there we are still. Those chickens of 2003 are still coming home to roost. Kristof is right: war is in the air. But knowing how feeble was Trump’s grasp on the realities of governance, some predicted a year ago that by 2020 we’d be at war; perhaps even by the midterms of 2018. “Iraqi Freedom” ushered in Abu Ghraib, GTMO, and torture; and in the process, cost us our honor and our perspective. And it ushered in the age of Putin, who squashed Chechnya while we argued about our own decline into madness.
24
Democrats supported and funded those wars, the same Democrats who sit in office today.
"Democrats and the news media alike mostly rolled over"
My recollection is that, prior to the invasion of Iraq, hundreds of thousands in this country, and millions worldwide, marched in the streets to argue against the invasion. And our voices were ignored by the administration.
I guess if 43% still approve, we didn't have sufficient numbers to be heard.and I'm guessing Mr. Kristof is worried for good reason. We won't have sufficient numbers this time either. Trumps advisers and supporters are the most soundproof echo-chamber any president has ever constructed.
45
Democracy must be preserved. But it has it's drawbacks. Just look at the top ten popular music songs if you wonder how a man like Trump could be elected. He's a pop star. Hillary would have done well to call his voters by another name. She was right, but calling them deplorables gave them more resolve to disdain the left. The Republican party has so indoctrinated the heartland that the military is seen as not able to do no wrong by a substantial segment of the country. Those popular opinions are scary.
23
In defense of the 43 percent, isn’t it arguable that the disastrous effects resulted not from the invasion itself but from its bungled follow-up?
Very short answer : no.
Simply because there was no politically feasible positive outcome of a military occupation, the resources were visibly not there to even begin to plan, much less successfully execute, an occupation. And the proof of that was there before day 1 : Iraq was be a pushover, Americans were to be viewed as glorious liberators, and the invasion would pay for itself.
So the 43% doesn't get to shift blame and dissemble quite that easily.
18
To respectfully answer your question: yes and no. the results of removing a dictator are hardly predictable, as evidenced by the administration's optimistic (and wrong) predictions about how we would be greeted. remember it was called shock and awe here at home?! so nobody was prepared for the very predictable (by some) reaction that we really received. defending 43 is a fool's errand.
Quite. That's been proven over and over again in both Bush administrations. March in and then?? No follow up, no contingency plans, just bloody massacre of mostly civilian populations. When Bush disallowed showing coffins of returning, dead American soldiers, the distant wars receded from our living rooms. All of Mr. Kristof's fears are reasonable and, if enacted, could lead the US from one conflict to another, while the Chinese sit back and watch.
2
I understand Mr. Kristof's fears which I also share. Will America's current crazed leader and his enablers sell us out again? I read somewhere when U.S. troops entered Iraq the army had only 11 Arabic-speaking interpreters. Rumsfield ordered soldiers to leave Iraq's known weapons caches unsecured in the rush to liberate Bagdad. Bush threatened to stop aid to countries that failed to join the "coalition of the willing". Our illegal war of choice opened the door for state-sanctioned murder and a naked grab for oil and over two million people were turned into refugees overnight. The rationale for war kept changing to try to cover the greed unleashed by our incompetent politicians and their appointees. Just like now. Except that America can't afford another war. Hopefully Trump's underwriters and enablers (those just profiled by the NY Times below, Israel, Saudi Arabia, the U.A.E. and of course Russia)--and the super wealthy and corporations understand war isn't good for business.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/21/us/politics/george-nader-elliott-broi...?
33
The Pew Survey finding that 43% of Americans still believe that invading Iraq was the correct decision is not inexplicable. It's due to the same phenomenon that blinds those who voted for Trump to the damage he's causing to our country every which way he turns.
The bigger the mistake, the more misplaced the investment, the harder and more painful it is for human beings to admit having been wrong about them.
Accordingly, I wouldn't expect a really, really big mistake like the invasion of Iraq to be recognized as such by those who served in it, or by those who argued endlessly in its favor, or by those who had loved ones who served and sacrificed. It's a tough thing to admit that one's life was on the line, or that a loved one was lost or injured, or that our country's incurred a massive debt that is draining our futures, all in the name of a pointless military exercise.
Unfortuately, this human trait is is another reason your worries are justified, Mr. Kristof, assuming this president continues dow his current rhetorical path.
And, in those worries, you are not alone.
41
The alliance between the USA, Israel and the Saudis against Iran may be the more likely of the three scenarios leading to war. Without a draft relatively few Americans will feel the pain directly. How much do Russia and China count in the calculations before deciding ?I see Putin and Trump cutting deals like mob bosses carving up territory. It's been done before when the USA and Britain arranged to overthrow the gov't in Iran and install the Shah. Will congress act to prevent it?
11
No. No way. No way, Jose.
Congress is apparently afraid of the Trump loyalists. Way easier to issue a few "tsk, tsk" statements, maybe send some thought and prayers when necessary but never, ever break ranks.
We REALLY need to change the House or Senate in 2018.
11
Once again it is necessary to say: That was no blunder. It was planned and lied into existence. It was use of the U.S. military to gratify a coterie of retarded adolescents. It was also without negative consequences for the perpetrators.
121
I share your same fears, Mr. Kristof, but there is no possibility of any effective Israeli strike on Iran, as it is simply too far to fly. Any strike on Iran would be led by America, not Israel. And King Bibi has King Trump and Prince Kushner just where he wants them and whacko MBS is getting everything the little Saudi could dream of from us as well because of his hatred for Iran. In fact, I predict the refinancing of 666 Fifth Avenue will be Israeli and Saudi money. What is different this time around, compared to the Bush Presidency, is that foreign policy decisions and, especially wars, were not personal for-profit endeavors under him. With Trump and his mob family, everything is a personal calculation. The considerations of the country and its people matter not. And the 43% who still think the war in Iraq was a good idea must just like indiscriminate killing and clearly make up this President's base. We so desperately need to get to a place quickly in this country where our democracy is genuinely representative of the other 57%.
49
My scenario for the situation with Iran goes like this:
1) Trump says he is withdrawing the US from the agreement.
2) All of the other signatories to the agreement say that they are staying in the agreement.
3) China announces that it will extend support to Iran by additional Belt and Road Initiatives.
4) Iran says that it will abide by the agreement.
5) Multinational corporations in Europe and Asia will start doing business in Iran.
6) American corporations will complain to the Trump Administration that they are losing business from the American withdrawal from the Iran agreement.
7A) A face-saving measure is concocted through back-door channels that allows Trump to say that Iran has made new concessions and so he does not withdraw the US from the agreement.
7B) After Trump is out of office (in 2019 or 2021) the government will announce that it is rejoining the Iran agreement.
35
Well done! This scenario is a definite possibility and a best case scenario for sure. The only problem is that it never seems to go that smoothly with the current administration
8
(6) US imposes banking embargo and individual sanctions or the threat thereof on European and Asian companies engaged in contracts in Iran and using US dollar for other global business. Only tiny foreign investment inflows result and Iran is bought on the cheap by Chinese state backed enterprises (This is the actual, current operational scenario in Iran)
1
Nothing goes smoothly with this administration.
Seems to me that, at the very minimum, Congress needs to clarify and reassert its Constitutional role to declare war--or not--and to hold that in the face of the President.
23
The problem is that Congress HAS asserted its authority. It voted for all this. As recently as this week it voted NOT to stop the Yemen war. The Congress has wimped out, but it isn't by failing to act on the subject of war, it is by acting for war with no basis for war except their own cowardice to face the issues.
48
And who do we think will assert this leadership, Robert? McConnell? The Cowardly Ryan? Do not get your hopes up that this Congress will stand up to anything as long as the Republicans hold the majority. They will sooner fight actual wars than give up the so-called culture war that they’ve been fanning for decades.
This is exactly what I am worried about; especially the relation with the nuclear North which is just ten minutes away by missile from where I live. Avoiding military conflict should have priority over any other options. Since everyone, including Kim Jong-un, knows the US can crush North, this must be a starting point to reach any meaningful compromise.
20
Best bet for Japan would be to begin negotiations immediately to build Trump Casinos, Hotels and Towers throughout Japan so that the Trumps will have a financial stake in the survival of Japan. Make it worth their while, you know. As for North Korea, this same kind of approach to Trump might work out for it, as well. This planned meeting between the presidents of the U.S. and N. Korea for later this Spring would present just such an opportune moment to work out new lucrative partnerships between them. So many opportunities, it just boggles one's mind.
9
Indeed~ any sane person will agree with you. It seems the biggest concern is the mental condition of Trump: will his ego bring us into war?- or will Kim Jong-un be crafty enough to appease it while appearing the be the winner to himself? My hope lies within the new friendliness between NK and SK leaders, I believe together they can calm Trump down.
In this and other pieces written on the anniversary of the wrongful American invasion of Iraq, writers acknowledge the massive destruction which has erupted out from Iraq and spread through the region. But invariably, and quickly, the subject lands upon the real subject: American losses, to our honor, and to the wasting of American lives, limbs, and especially treasure.
And through all of them, when looking at the balance, it seems to me that to speak of our losses seems indecent. The harm American political and military policy has created over the last 15 years is so enormous, and to so many, compared to our own, it seems like a complaining of a splinter from the handle of the ax we wielded.
I would find it far more reassuring if more writers were to suggest that Americans might simply lower their heads in the deepest contrition and solemn silence, without explanation or excuses, and not speak of themselves, this once. Instead, perhaps this day should be a national memorial, not for ourselves, but where we take a day to meditate upon the awful gravity of what is for almost all Americans a completely incomprehensible and foreign event to us. The horror of a deadly war and ravaged blight an entire region experiences daily still, and will continue to do, for the foreseeable future.
To spend at least one day a year, just thinking about them, as though they were the most important ones.
231
Could not agree more. We seem oblivious of the harm we have caused. We will never give account. We baselessly claim moral high ground out of hubris. And we continue to double down on this history.
For more than 150 years the only military action on American soil was Pearl Harbor, which we faithfully recall on the evening news every December 7. Not since the South in the Civil War have we experienced the pain and devastation we have so blithely inflicted, directly or indirectly on others. And the chaos we have set into motion seems to have a long shelf life.
A day for atonement, or at least a bit of conscience, is needed. If we don't voluntarily accept responsibility, our relatively shrinking power may allow the world to help us along in that regard.
Callousness and hubris may be our downfall.
7
The problem is that the woefully misinformed and uninformed American public are in deep, deep denial over what we have done around the world. They will never admit they/we were wrong about anything.
It's easier for them to accuse us of treason if we try to examine what we have done in the middle east or central America than to talk about whether Trump committed treason if he colluded with Putin to win the 2016 election. They will never admit we tore apart the country of Iraq or destroyed so many lives without justification...Trump voters will accuse President Obama of creating the mess in Iraq by announcing our early departure (he didn't) or creating ISIS (wrong there too). They will more readily admit Bush and Cheney lied to everyone about the presence of WMDs--tho they still prefer to think WMDs were there, we just didn't find them.
Americans glommed on to the story circulated in their media about the Hussein men taking their choice of innocent little girls from their school classes for nights of debauchery...our brave American soldiers stopped that, and any other results are regrettable but certainly unintentional. Surely, they are better off now...
If you try to introduce concepts of our blame for destroying their infrastructure or ruining the lives/safety/education/etc of the Iraqui people, they will attack your "anti-Americanism," or your "blame America first" thinking. They have been taught it's unpartriotic to examine American actions.
2
43% think invading Iraq was the right decision because most Americans bore none of the war's cost. Unlike in Vietnam, there was no draft and the war affected relatively few families. Instead we concentrated the pain by recycling the same soldiers for multiple tours with often devastating costs to those fought and fought again. In the end, we thank them for their service and closed our eyes to their suffering.
Financially, most Americans paid no immediate costs. The Iraq War was preceded by a massive tax cut. The war's staggerings costs were put on our credit card. Only the poor paid with cuts in needed social services. Then last year, Congress approved more tax cuts.
As for all the collateral damage pointed out by Kristof, many Americans see no link between the Iraq War, the rise of the Islamic State and the Syrian War. For many, those were Obama's fault.
We have remarkable short attention spans. Short enough, as Kristof notes, to start another Iraq-type war. When their are few shared costs, there is little shared attention and even less memory.
203
This is a strong argument for bringing back the military draft, as well as other forms of universal service for both young men and young women, as in Israel.
That way, every American family has a stake in the country, and in decisions and consequences of war or peace.
6
Bring the consequences of war closer to home, renstitute compulsory military service, aka, the draft. Perhaps some families, parents will pay closer attention to their government's actions knowing their children are at risk. The military will hate it, but then that's just an added benefit.
1
Fifteen years ago, America enjoyed great sympathy from the world post 9/11. Not so any longer. If we engage in a war at this time, we will be viewed as a pariah by not just the world community, but also our allies. It would be more than a rash move, it would be suicide. Just say NO to war!
95
The problem is that for the vast majority of Americans, other than family and loved ones of soldiers who died or have been wounded in Iraq or Afganistan the war has not adversely affected people, as they have no skin in the game. Until the draft is reinstated and 18-25 year old affluent kids can be drafted the people with power are not going to stop or argue against foreign interventions.
Arguing against the war is now considered a criticism of the military which is classic indirection.
Trump is a buffoon and today I saw a post from US Patriots for Donal Trump that actually said "When you attack Donald J Trump You attack Us, We the People" .
Can one imagine anything more misguided and antithetical to the true values upon which this country was founded?
38
Don't worry, Nick.
You'll be fine.
But if you have a son who is between 18 and 26, maybe you do have something to worry about.
It's still required of all men, and men only.
And if nuclear wall is a possibility, so is mandatory enlistment.
2
One thing Trump and every one of 'his generals' and his Vice President agreed upon--at least at an earlier date if no longer--is that women should not serve in the military. Some supposedly changed their positions to no women in combat, and maybe another supposedly changed his mind completely, but none said what other generals, officers, and civilian experts said when asked about this subject:
At this point in history, women participate so fully and are so intricately involved in every activity and responsibility of the military that the military simply could not successfully perform its duties without the full participation of women. There is no going back in time.
But if you read what Trump, Pence, Kelly, Mattis (Flynn definitely was one of them...unsure about McMaster) have said on the subject, they want women out for whatever personal reasons they may have... It's a very strange thing to have in common in 2016-8. Cannot be accidental...
2
Nick, depending on the American people to make the right choice or learn from hindsight is a fool's errand. Just look at how many voted for a TV star? Like the poem "the Patriot" mobs are totally thoughtless and US mobs are none the wiser. The only thing that might bring things to their attention is another catastrophic recession like the one we had in 2008. I am willing to bet that a substantial percentage may blame that one on ... Obama?
12
Don't South Koreans have something to say about US going to war against the north? I mean the US would have to use its territory, unless of course the war would be launched from aircraft carriers. Or maybe Trump thinks he can invade through China. Who knows with him.
As for Iran, my guess is the US would find itself all by itself except for its buddy Netanyahu. Europe, Russia, China, Canada, would very probably remain spectators actively trying to stop the US from this march of folly.
Nor can I see the majority of Americans or Congress marching in stride with their Supreme Leader on this one.
5
I think you are right. Even Australia, the only country to have stood besides the USA in every war over the last hundred years, would baulk at joining up to fight an another unwinnable war against North Korea.
I believe a US war against North Korea is unlikely. Even if Trump orders bombing of NK, US military top brass may not go along. No doubt Mr. Trump cares little about millions of South Koreans, North Koreans, and Japanese who will be killed in the event of a nuclear exchange in Korean Peninsula. But, being a narcissist, his main concern would be a personal one: his diminishing re-election chances, should US losses turn out to be too large.
The most likely war is a war against Iran. That is not necessarily what the US military wants, but it is what those who funded Mr. Trump's election victory want. In particular, Mr. Netanyahu and his US supporters have been trying to convince Mr. Trump that, like their occasional bombing of Syrian military facilities, bombing of Iranian facilities will not result in a strong military response. Of course that is pure nonsense. Iranians are extremely nationalistic, have a large, well-trained, military and chances that they do not respond forcefully to a US attack is zero.
Mr. Trump needs to convince the US public that a war against Iran is a matter of US national security and not intended to distract US and Israeli public from legal problems of their leaders. But that is almost impossible, as long as his public image is one of a bully and a warmonger. So, do not be surprised if when negotiating with Kim Jong-un, Mr. Trump suddenly turns into "The Man of Peace", show uncharacteristic flexibility, and accept many North Korean demands.
9
The disastrous Iraq invasion, and the ignorant risk-taking of the Trump administration, have in common that in both cases notoriously incompetent Republican presidents garnered crucial support of cowardly Congressional Democrats.
The US Congress' blank check Iraq war authorization of 2002 would not have passed the Senate were it not for the votes of Democratic senators such as John Kerry and Hillary Clinton. And Trump would probably not be president now, had the Democratic establishment not lined up blindly behind probably the only major presidential candidate so mistrusted as to be unable to prevail against Trump in November, 2016.
7
I also seem to remember there was this Iraqi ex-pat fellow encouraging Bush to invade. He wanted to be made President and was a close advisor. I think he was also angling for some lucrative contracts, but ended up disgraced. Trump is surrounded by an immense crowd of would-be profiteers and hangers-on with questionable morals and motivations, himself chief among them. It's an ill wind that blows no good. The only hope is that Trump seeks only by media coverage, and hasn't got the guts to start a real war that will send bodies home to their families. He certainly has the incompetence to do it.
5
America is a warrior nation, so we will always be in conflicts. its a nation that was founded by the gun, and its our destiny until the end
4
I don't believe in "destinies until the end." Destiny is born of what you will, then of what you do. What you do is in your own hands. What we do as a country is in our own hands.
You want to ensure stagnation? Convince yourself that "it can't be done."
43% still believe invading Iraq was the right decision. Why? the NY Times should ask. It that also Trump's favorability percentage? The next statement is not original, but war is the glue that keeps America together. God help us in our race down into the bottomless hole. There are no tragic consequences for the Trumps, Pompeos, or the Boltons of the world, it is only the innocent that suffer.
21
The churn rate for war mongering Republicans is incredibly short. Sigh. We had eight reasonable years of stability with Obama. I never dreamed we would forget “history” that is less than 20 years old. I’m so tired. Constant worry is awful.
21
Obama and Clinton sent the CIA into Syria to start the current conflict. Don't try to paint Obama and Clinton and the Democratic party as doves. Hundreds of thousands dead and millions displaced.
Trump lies so much everything he says is meaningless, except to the 20% who are his base. Most Republicans dislike him but love his tax, regulation, and abortion "reforms."
He can be judged only by his actions, since many of his promises- drain the swamp, jail Hillary, build a beautiful wall, stop immigration. stop foreign wars,
repair infrastructure, increase jobs, release his taxes, etc will never happen. He probably will never meet Kim Jong Un, or press his bigger button since the threat is more powerful than the action. He has a great jobs program for lawyers, however.
6
No potus keeps their promises. Read my lips, no new taxes. And i voted for a guy in large part because he promised not to sign a healthcare bill without a public option.
The basic problem in the Middle East, extremism (mainly religious), predated the invasion of Iraq. It was the Saudis, threatened by their homegrown extremists, who bought them off by asking for domestic tranquillity in return for Saudi funding of extremist Islam throughout the world. 9/11 was supported by their domestic extremists, and no one knows how high awareness or support for this plot went into the Saudi government.
The Saudis were our allies. They helped control the price of oil and bought lots of military goodies from us. We worked with them in Afghanistan, and let their support of extremists doom any hope that Afghanistan would achieve peace after driving the Soviets out. After 9/11, holding the Saudis responsible for the extremism that was often preached there would force us to develop a whole new Middle East and oil strategy; this was unthinkable to oil patch guys like dubya and Darth Cheney. Whatever else Iraq was, it was a successful distraction that prevented the question of the 15 Saudis that flew those airplanes from ever arising. Once in Iraq and without any strategy for a successful occupation, we had other problems to worry about.
The same powerful interests that do not want us to reconsider our oil-based civilization do not want us exploring the main driver of our foreign policy. But if we follow the money, things become clearer.
12
Well, I wouldn’t go blaming that 43 percent too much. Two of the last three Democratic Presidential nominees voted for the Iraq War, so obviously most Democratic voters didn’t think horrible judgment was a disqualifying feature in a President. Why would they? Politicians and pundits and some editorial writers seem to think tough talk makes a politician seem more serious.
3
Your comment misses the point. The 43 percent STILL think the invasion was a good idea. The Democratic nominees voted for the war based on lies told to them, the American people, and the United Nations ... at the time. You won't find either of those nominees, Clinton or Kerry, still maintaining that the war was a good idea. They've long since said otherwise. They've learned the lesson, while 43% of Americans haven't. That's Kristof's point, and it seems fairly obvious.
28
The 43% are half Democrat and half Republican. Don't fool yourself. Many Trump supporters opposed all intervention in the Middle East.
Robert Mercer believes that nuclear war can have benefits for the human race. In particular, survivors of nuclear war would be expected to have a greater genetic resistance to radiation which should be of benefit to the human race over the long term. Jane Mayer's New Yorker profile of Mercer has more details.
I believe Mercer's support for the benefits of nuclear war should be as widely known about as his support for the Donald Trump campaign.
29
Source?
"A recent Pew survey found that 43 percent of Americans still believe that invading Iraq was the correct decision." That would be the same 43 percent who gave Trump a positive review in another recent poll. Deplorable.
26
Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it. History is under-emphasized in our schools thanks to obsession with STEM and utilitarian writing for standardized tests. We need to bring back real civics education and critical thinking. Many citizens can't even name the three branches of government. Some of them even vote.
17
Please run for office, your comment indicates you would be a vast improvement over the status quo.
This buries three serious and complex problems under the reasoning, "I don't like Trump."
I don't like a trade war, but we did not do "a 70-year American effort to lead the world to a more open trade system." We allowed others to remain very closed. We bribed them with access to our huge economy, in return for their geo-political compliance in the Cold War. We could afford to do that, because our economy was fully half the world's manufacturing. In the context of a Cold War and the economic realities of the times, it made sense.
Now our neocons want to continue the old relationships, because they like American dominance in the world. They were NOT opening those other markets, just getting a few favors for special interests like Big Pharma, and maintaining military control. That is badly outdated.
What we need on trade is a modernized approach to today's problems. That includes offsets measured carefully to offshoring social costs like carbon and other pollution and labor safety standards. Low and targeted tariffs, but some.
Korea is a multi-generational mess. It won't be solved in the next 60 days? Shock and surprise here. Baby steps are more likely, and a meet and greet to replace the vicious war of words is a good start.
Iran? Replay of Iraq, times four. All the same things apply. As of now, we know so much it can't be encapsulated in few words. It makes as much sense as that mustache does on crazy John Bolton. He shows what a loon he is with a sign on his face.
10
You may feel that my comments are off the subject but here goes. Americans want to be entertained. We spend our time keeping up with the Kardashians, their children, and their clothes instead of knowing who are our Congressmen, who is the Speaker of the House or the leader of the Senate, let alone anything that requires time and research, like trade policy, the Iran nuclear agreement, etc. In other words, the American public is politically complacent and uninformed, ripe for the picking by any reasonably articulate blowhard with an agenda. Which is one reason why Donald Trump is our president. It takes a serious amount of gullibility and complacency to believe it was a good idea to make DT the most powerful man in the world. Trump will get whatever war(s) he wants, nothing has changed since 2003 except the current Republican party is more extreme than Bush/Cheney.
88
So is the alternative to form a free colony as far north as it takes to evade the radiation belts soon to be encircling D.C. and Trump's Florida pleasure dome? We don't deserve what this country seems to be headed for, so is it fight or flight?
Just like Ancient Rome. Bread and circuses
Don't look to the establishment wings of either party here for help, they've proven to be no use. It's the reviled, derided, and the outliers in congress who are the best chances to save our bacon. Bernie Sanders, the libertarian leaners like Rand Paul and Justin Amash. Dog save us.
1
Our invasion of Iraq was not a blunder, it was a crime against humanity as was our torturing of prisoners.
Bush, Cheney and the whole den of thieves and murderers who sanctioned it should be imprisoned for life.
I agree with Kristof about the dangers impending from Trump. I believe he is going to nuke North Korea this summer. The Republican Congress who allow him to remain in power are complicit in his crimes. His presidency and indeed all of them are bringing a great stain to our country, a blight to us and the world. I pray that I am mistaken, and that God and history will forgive us for the crimes committed in our name.
21
Two things: Trump is going to meet with Putin soon. Will that be before or after meeting with Kim Jong-un? Or maybe both? And, some GOP senators are tal
king impeachment. Meaningless talk. It's the House that has to impeach; the Senate has nothing to do until after impeachment. More GOP smoke and mirrors. I hope everyone turns out on March 24th. We the people need to present a major show of force of our own.
10
"Will that be beforre or after meeting with Kim Jong-un?" And before or after he meets with Robert Mueller? When he hears Mueller's questions, he may know the gig is up, and think that the only way he can stay in office is to start a war.
You forgot Frederick Banting in your list, and Alexander Fleming would probably turn in his grave if he knew of the overuse of antibiotics nowadays.
The signs are ominous. "Oh What A Lovely War" is Trump's Get Out of Jail card. As Mueller dives deeper into the Trump muck, as the lawsuits and kiss & tells form a line around the block, as more voices of reason are replaced with voices of treason surrounding Trump, as FaceBook implodes and the Mercer/dark money funded Cambridge Analytica explodes, what can a desperate and impulsive real estate developer who happens to be POTUS do?
Oh, what a lovely war indeed.
It's not if but when. And with a plethora of news developments blooming like a thousand flowers on the hillside -- look at today's NYTimes front page with over 20 major news stories competing for the supposed 10 or so slots available in the mindshare bandwidth of normal people, our national focus is totally blurred and strained. It's like trying to solve a Rubik Cube as a cascade of fireworks fill the night sky.
And all this is while a 100 other Trump-sourced misdeeds from Kushner's dealings with foreign investors, to ill-advised tariffs and trade policies about to take effect, are barely covered by a bulging news hole.
Chaos and a corrupt President and his obsequious majority party are sufficient if not necessary grounds for war. The ridiculous Falklands war is how Prime Minister Thatcher went from Chamberlain to Churchill overnight. Think Trump won't go full Thatcher?
After all, if you're Trump, what's the point of having that big button on your desk if you can't use it?
12
I have the same fears. Cheney pushed for war with a weak president who believed everything his advisors, like Cheney, Rumsfeld and the rest of that gang told him. Cheney wanted the oil and had no problem killing a half a million innocents to get it. Bush probably realized he had no clue so felt he had to listen to the 'experts'. Trump on the other hand, has no clue about anything, will not listen to the sound advice his advisors try to impress on him and just likes to campaign and be praised by his foolish minions. He and his White House are mixed up in so many scandals that he does things off the wall so the silly media will follow the shiny object and maybe not talk about the Mueller investigation or Trump's infidelities for a day or so. The number of scary things that this administration has done in the relatively short time in office is simply amazing, or should I say tremendous - one of Trump's favorite words. I really do not think we will survive this presidency without a depression, recession and/or a major war. We are heading there now and the republicans in congress seem content to let him do whatever he wants, they got their tax cuts and they want more justices so they can stifle those darn women who feel they have a right to choose how to handle their reproductive lives.
19
I'm sitting in the theater of my mind realizing that I've seen this movie before. Not once, but twice before have I seen the leaders of my country march their best and brightest off to war for no good reason. Basically, just because they could. Once they swallowed whole the hyperbole of their own propaganda, war became inevitable, because such men are too prideful to admit when they are wrong. Anyone unconvinced that Vietnam was a farce had only to watch the recent Ken Burns documentary to learn the bitter truth. A similar video tribute will undoubtedly feature the lies told to justify our attack on Iraq. War does not solve a nation's problems, but it does create tragic consequences for the guilty and the innocent alike. And for the living, the pain never ends.
23
If there is a war that is provoked by the United States against Iran, it will become a long and protracted war. It will take place from the western border of Pakistan to the Mediterranean. I think the American people should have a clear understanding of the areas that Iran has influence in. There has been a significant change in the region since the beginning of the Iraqi war. If there
is a war I would not count on the Saudis or the Jordanians to give unlimited
support. If it's a protracted war in time the American people will become angry as we did against the Vietnam War and a lot of the anger will also be
directed against Israel for its instigation of a war with Iran.
12
"A recent Pew survey found that 43 percent of Americans still believe that invading Iraq was the correct decision."
Because many Americans are either uninterested or uninformed, they are incapable of making the connection between the invasion and the turmoil that followed. Syria was destabilized largely because of the pressure of Iraqi refugees far more numerous than Syria's ability to handle them. ISIS invented itself to fill power the vacuum, gained physical control over much of the immediate region and managed to terrorize more distant regions of the Muslim world; not to mention the terror attacks in western nations.
I don't blame the American public too much for its ignorance. I blame the architects of the invasion who, even if they admit it was a mistake, consider it an isolated event, totally unconnected to what has happened since. Even opponents have been failed to connect the action and its consequences.
But also, where have American journalists been all these years? I can’t recall one serous commentator before Mr. Kristof today making the link between the Iraq war and its consequences, which are very much with us today with no end in sight. trump’s aggressive posture (does he know anything else?) threatens to saddle the United States with Iraq times two or three, but this time with no allies – except possibly Russia which will be surely be around to pick up the pieces.
44
Perhaps youshould start Reading TomDispatch as well as Truthdig,
they regularly have articles on that very subject.
The problem started with Afghanistan. I assume Mr. Kristof supported that war because he did not mention it. Americans love war as do most congressman, democratic and republican.
Mr. Trump just continues the tradition.
5
You write with bitter resignation, but I suspect you don't really love war. Half the country opposed Bush's invasion. We marched, we organized, we called our senators and representatives. Maybe instead of giving way to fatalism we should examine why the "imperial presidency" has so much power. The framers had no intention of giving this much power to the executive branch.
Has American leadership ever done anything right on the global stage?
Except for Lincoln, every president seemed to have the Midas Touch in reverse. If we get involved, we jack things up worse. Non-doing, non-involvement seems a much better course for us in the long run. Plato might call it minding our own business. But, no, we gotta be the World's Policeman riding in on our state-of-the-art tanks invading first and asking questions later, and dreading the embarrassing answers.
If we get involved, we break everything. If we don't get involved, things fall apart. I see a pattern here. Who programmed this video game?
5
Part of the problem is that America has tried to extend it influence beyond the Americas to the whole world. I am guessing they have tried to step into the shoes of the old European empires. Canada stepped into Afghanistan with you and had to good scenes to set a time limit and stick to it. First step in getting out of hole is to stop digging.
What worries me more is Trump supporters and Republicans have failed to learn the lesson with the Cheney precedent. Back then, the neocons were able to rope W in in the aftermath of 911. After 8 disastrous years, the real reason America ended up with the Great Recession, and after 8 years of hard work, with little help from the Republicans, history is repeating itself. As the saying goes, "fool me once, shame on you; but fool me twice..."
74
On a flight at Christmastime, I sat beside two fresh-faced Army recruits in the middle of basic training. They were sweet and idealistic except for one thing: they both assured me that military action in Korea was in their and our future. When I, shocked, said "No. Really?" they both nodded.
It is, yes, like the days before Iraq when we hoped for reason to prevail and it did not. Since reason no longer guides the White House, I fear for those boys. And for all of us.
178
There's nothing like idealistic ignorance to get America mired in yet another Vietnam look-alike. Yet we keep doing it.... for.... what reason again?
1
Do these boys think a resumed Korean War would be similar to that of the early 1950's, terrible and inconclusive as that was? It would likely be far, far worse, perhaps quickly escalating to the level of WWII. It would not be a reprise of their grandfathers' "service to their country."
1
Iran is the one trouble spot that really worries me, because to Trump and perhaps some others the consequences of military action there don't seem as stark as they would be in Korea. A war on the Korean peninsula would certainly involve hundreds of thousands if not millions of casualties, including the devastation or complete destruction of Seoul. And the current South Korean government would not agree to war with the North. Unless North Korea does something that's beyond provocative, Trump is unlikely to strike there.
A war with Iran, however, would appeal to important parts of Trump's base. Even more importantly, an air campaign would not lead to blowback in the form of (for example) the destruction of Saudi Arabia's oil industry just across the Persian Gulf. We have the means to prevent that from happening. We do not, however, have the capacity to fight a successful land campaign ending in the occupation of Iran, which means that any conflict would be open-ended and could lead to a ramping up of Iranian-backed terrorism in the Middle East and indeed around the world. It would also unite the Iranian people behind the Islamic Republic's rulers. But, bad idea or no, Trump might be tempted to lash out at Iran in order to deflect attention from his legal and political problems at home.
A trade war seems unlikely (witness Trump's partial backpedaling on steel and aluminum tariffs), except when it comes to China. And a trade war with China would actually be a good thing.
2
In the run up to the Iraq war the administration telegraphed its intention to go to war and went on an obvious public relations campaign. There is a clear broadcasting of this administration's plan to retaliate against abusive Chinese trade practices, but no broadcasted intentions to start a shooting war. While pulling out of the Iran nuclear deal is a troubling sign, its far from a declaration of war.
Also I do not agree with the characterization that retaliation against China's blatantly abusive trade practices is America backing away from it's historical position as a champion of free, open trade. We have historically championed that system and China has abused it since the day they had to begin to comply with WTO commitments. Holding China's feet to the fire over their abusive practices safeguards that system - it doesn't challenge it. If the second largest economy is allowed to abuse the system of free trade we have built and the largest economy does not challenge them on it, the system cannot last. On the other hand, the nonsensical steel and aluminum tariffs are a failure of leadership. They are financially trivial, but symbolically large.
I find this administration very objectionable, but the situation with North Korea (size of nuclear buttons aside) and the action against the Chinese actually seem pretty reasonable. Iran and metals tariffs, on the other hand, are deeply misguided. Call Trump out where he is wrong, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Your description of events of fifteen years ago is a sobering reminder that the American populace can be fooled into supporting military adventures.I think it is different this time.Now people are tuned in and the media is working overtime to keep us informed.Already there has been a huge turn out of attorneys when Trump tried his first immigration orders.There was a million women march right after the inauguration and now there will be a huge march of students in the Capital this weekend.People are not chasing shiny objects, they are dead serious that they will hold this administration accountable.They will turn out to vote in November-that could set up a welcome mid course correction.
10
I truly hope you are right but I am not as optimistic as you seem to be. There is a saying that continues to haunt me. "people who do not learn from the past are condemned to repeat it" I have seen this movie before and it is deeply disturbing.
15
I guess it depends on what you think you have learned from the past. There's also that related saying about the dangers of fighting the last war.
Nicholas' superb column today ends with the recent news that a survey shows 43% of Americans think invading Iraq 15 years ago was a correct decision.
Missing from that survey are the dead soldiers, the dead journalists, and the uncounted Iraqi's savagely killed in the sectarian madness that George Bush (and his enablers) set a very, very large match to. Do we need the services of a psychic-medium to tell us that the dead are not so happy with the shrub's macho posturing, and grossly mismanaged invasion?
Every single prediction of Bush's team, every single guess or estimate about the war on Iraq has been proven utterly false. I wonder how these men hold their head up in public. I'm thinking of you, Wolfowitz, with your merry news, from 2003, that the war would cost us less than 20 billion.
It seems you were wrong! But I don't hear so much from you these days about it. The world bank must feel immense relief.
73
Your concerns are prescient, Mr. Kristof. Just today, the NYT reported that the Senate rejected a resolution which would have curbed Trump's power to participate in the Saudi war on Yemen.
Trump has no end of enablers in Congress, or of nefarious global figures on whom to affix himself.
Trump likes to talk now about what a mistake Iraq was, but the only 'lessons' he speaks of are that we should have taken their oil and that dictators are good for the world.
The larger picture - that we cannot remake other nations, that we cannot operate ignorant of other cultures, that the best way to support our troops is to keep them from being killed or wounded in vain - is of course lost on Trump.
At some point, his Twitter wars won't be adequately warring for him. We have to repaint the Congress blue to keep him in check.
27
Thanks Nicholas. Now I am going to go hide under my blankets and cry.
31
Invading Iraq will stand as one the largest strategic blunders in the history of the U.S. It was done under false pretenses, on faulty information, by an administration that thought it had a mandate to prosecute a world-wide war on terror.
Now comes Trump, who ignores facts and has no intellectual capacity to understand details, and who is motivated by a desire for the U.S. to be "great" again. And he's enabled by a Republican congress that needs him to carry out a political agenda. If Trump lasts a full 4 years, we very well could have another war on our hands.
17
It's no surprise that 43% of Americans believe the invasion of Iraq was a good idea, some fifteen years on, when history has soundly proven the opposite. This is roughly the same percentage of Trump supporters. And this is precisely why Trump will go to war. Like Dubya, he understands that he doesn't need the will of the majority of the people behind him -- he need only a large, rabid minority, and this is what he has.
And what is the common denominator here, that some forty percent of our citizens believe is worth fighting a war about? Our "enemies" are brown-skinned peoples, ethnic minorities -- and aren't white. Like Dubya's supporters, Trump's base has absolutely no concern about seeing millions of civilians dead from useless military conflicts, because "those people" are brown, or Asian.
This should not surprise anyone -- as race is exactly what binds Trump supporters together. The voting numbers do not lie. Race was the single largest factor in his success. Even fifty-three percent of white women voted for Trump. They believe Americans who are racial or ethnic minorities should be second-class citizens. Hate crimes have skyrocketed since Trump took office. Again, this is no coincidence.
And this large, bigoted segment of our population are the support Trump will need to wage war, just as they were rabidly behind Dubya in 2003. As long as he orders the military to strike North Korea, or anywhere in the Middle East, his base will cheer him on. Bet the rent on it.
109
Risky, irresponsible, and reckless describe the electorate's actions in the victory for Trump. The American voters, so sure in their mistrust, distrust and loathing of Hillary Clinton, decided to roll the dice on a so-called dealmaker, a real estate magnate with no interest or curiosity about the world around him. It was a big gamble with high stakes that millions of voters made.
Now, we are seeing the repercussions of this choice. The sad truth is that most or all of what Kristof writes about is of no concern to his base, for sure, and of little concern to the rest, apparently. Ryan is mum. McConnell, that Supreme Court nominee stealing menace, is virtually silent. They have all made their choices: Trump is their man and win or lose, they will go down with the ship. Congratulations, red state voters.
21
I'd ask for my $24,000 back, except that over 500,000 innocent people died needlessly as a result of our per household "contributions", and I am so ashamed of that I can't find any words.
31
On the money - and bone chilling. Welcome to Trump world.
10
Trump is careless and he likes instant gratification and has no patience with complicated and long to work through processes. He's exactly the kind of leader who makes war without assessing and considering and preparing for all the significant risks. He just proceeds and expects that someone will clean up after him. Iran will not want to go to war with the U.S. but Israel and Saudi Arabia will if they think that they are facing an existential threat. And out of that war becomes an distinct possibility.
4
Trump’s Talk Worries Me, Like the Talk Before the Iraq War
[ Perfect and really scary. I pay no attention during the day, so I can think only of my lectures and students, but at night I read and am afraid. ]
10
This presidency will not end well and we may be at war before it is over.
13
The fact that 43% of Americans think that the 2003 invasion of Iraq was the correct decision reiterates the devastating H.L. Menckian and Trumpian truth that “no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public” and the Napoleonic truth that "in politics, stupidity is not a handicap."
We have a desperate, draft-dodging chicken-hawk Moron-In-Chief who wants to prove how tough and Messiah-like he is to his moronic, 'religious' end-times lovin' violent voter base who are collectively convinced of the infantile notion that their shameful American ignorance ironically makes "America #1".
How did we get here ?
It never could have happened without The Party of Stupid carefully collapsing the nation's IQ with cultured stupidity, lies and pure right-wing disinformation.
Many Americans think Saddam Hussein had something to do with Sept 11 2001, even though 15 of the 19 were citizens of Saudi Arabia, and the others were from the United Arab Emirates, Egypt, and Lebanon....because Republican liars, propagandists and the Fake News Channel happily peddled that blatant lie to America's fake heartland and fraudulent Bible Belt and they ate up the lies like biscuits and gravy.
Pachyderm Spongiform Encephalopathy and all of the war violence, gun violence, idiotic flag-waving and 'God Bless America' Derangement Syndrome that accompanies modern Republicanism is the greatest scourge of our time.
It has never been more important to vote in record numbers, America.
514
One other fact gets insufficient exposure in discussing the absurd claims of the Bush Administration that Saddam was in league with al Qaeda.
Saddam and Osama hated each other.
Saddam's Baathist party were secular socialists, while Osama's al Qaeda was a hive of religious fanatics. Osama publicly called Saddam an infidel, pretty much the ultimate insult for one Muslim to fling at another. What's more, Osama offered his al Qaeda fighters to the Saudis to attack Saddam's forces and drive them from Kuwait, and he was infuriated when the Saudis opted instead to let the Americans fight the battle for them.
3
I always enjoy your comments Socrates! Keep up the good work! Did they take a comment of yours down the other day?
4
Yes, Todd, they often remove my highly recommended comments.
The unvarnished truth seems to offend the NYT's sensibilities.
4
Trump's actions and belligerent stupidity alarm many of us. Like G.W. Bush, he 'goes with his gut'. Both had a less than stellar business career before becoming president, careening from one poor decision to another. The way Trump's family makes money primarily is just off his name, and the reputation he built as a 'you're fired!' TV reality show host.
In Trump's mind and world, it is all good from his point of view, as he said once, whether he gets good publicity or bad, he just likes having his name out there and the recognition.
Whenever I hear the phrase that Trump is ‘the most powerful man in the world’, I cringe. Heaven help us.
38
Georgie was probably worse in the sense he was channeling "God's whispering in his ear". Trump has yet to kill maim render other nations' citizens homeless.
1
Under the scenario now set to unfold conflict is inevitable. It nourises
War just about everywhere it might occur will certainly happen and we will suffer severely.
The world will never be the same thenceforth.
Power grids will crash and all computor-related infrastructure including vehicles and telephones will be disabled.
Approaching doomsday's final moments are ticking away and we can only watch and pray.
This isn't pessimisim it is clairvoyance; a haiku of human experience. The pieces fall together in the physical/cultural world of man in classical form and a deeper understanding of where we are is grasped by the more profound observers who agree we are at the end of our rope.
Having run off the cliff, we are in free fall, unsure of we will alight. Grounded in our final refuge, I say:
I want to sleep
Swat the flies
Softly, please.
After killing
a spider, how lonely I feel
in the cold of night!
For love and for hate
I swat a fly and offer it
to an ant.
A mountain village
under the piled-up snow
the sound of water.
Night; and once again,
the while I wait for you, cold wind
turns into rain.
The summer river:
although there is a bridge, my horse
goes through the water.
A lightning flash:
between the forest trees
I have seen water.
We will finally rest in peace.
God save us one and all.
6
Many of our political elite were cowards during the Iraq run-up, sacrificing their critical faculties in order to avoid being called unpatriotic.
Russian hackers attempted to influence our elections. Were they any more underhanded - or successful - at influencing the public than the Bush Administration was back then? If 43% of people still believe the original reasons for the invasion, I'd say no. Lying about facts, misinterpreting and layering deep emotions by invoking 9/11 over the mess - "we" did a pretty good job of generating home-grown propaganda to support the hawks. There were arguments that could be used to support the war, but they weren't what got us into it - or prepared the US for the cascade of violent changes in the mid -east triggered by major destabilization of power.
So Trump is maybe much more a loud mouth, and has shown total disregard for consequences for the country - and he is terrifying. He doesn't even seem to think he need justify what he does - - via truth or lies. He doesn't even have a coherent narrative - he 'plans' by the seat of his pants. No leader, friend or enemy, is going to put any faith in his words. Where some of us were once upset because we Bush entrusted too much power to Cheney, now we see a man who cuts off any sources of information or feedback who don't feed his ego.
Journalists have been watching more closely, but the difficulty is keeping the focus on the important stuff - which doesn't include Stormy Daniels.
14
Beg to differ on last point. ANY and all issues pushing this foul trash closer to removal are worth pursuing.
2
Not only have we failed to learn the lesson of Iraq, we have failed to learn the lesson of the Korean War, the Viet Nam war, the Afghanistan war--if it can be called that. These wars all happened before Trump was president. Some were begun or accelerated by otherwise great or near great presidents like Truman and Johnson. It seems to me that the one war lesson the US has learned in the last 100 years is that the Greatest Generation was not as great as it thought it was. It and the US were not invincible. Lincoln who started and won the costliest and bloodiest war ever fought by this country would never have fought the wars in Iraq, Korea, Vietnam and Afghanistan.
The other excruciating aspect of the Iraq war, especially, is that it was fought in the name of 9/11 against a country which had nothing to do with 9/11. The Bush crowd used Iraq as a proxy for Saudi Arabia because it did not want to deal with another major petroleum disaster which cost Carter his presidency. Courage has been in very short supply post 9/11 among US citizens and their elected leaders.
145
One quibble here. Lincoln did not start the Civil War. The Confederate States fired on Fort Sumpter. True, Lincoln made the decision to try to re-supply the fort which provoked the CSA into firing on the fort. And Lincoln made the re-supply decision with the expectation that it would cast the CSA in the role of the aggressors and thereby prejudice their chance of recognition by foreign countries. But he was bound by his oath of office to protect and defend the Constitution. And surrendering or evacuating Fort Sumpter would have done neither. We must not forget that it was the South that chose war, not Lincoln and the North.
22
Thank you, Mr. Ricciardi, for wisdom beyond that of good columnists.
Thank you for the valuable correction.
1
Well, the congress better get its act together and provide some leadership. Good grief. Where are the checks and balances of a healthy democracy?
118
Few and far between are those checks and balances. It boggles the mind that the US allows its President - whether mad man or not - to push the nuclear button at his/her whim. And the world stands by and says nothing. God help us! Oh I forgot. There is no God. just us.
4
Checks and balances? They were bought by the likes of the Koch brothers, and then discarded.
4
In 2002, George McGovern opposed the invasion of Iraq by saying, '...no man who has had these experiences [fighting a war] will ever again speak carelessly about war. It is the worst thing that men do to each other. When I listen to the bombastic rhetoric of Messrs. Bush and Cheney and the war cries of Ms. Rice, I know that I'm hearing from people who've never been near a battlefield. The British conservative Edmund Burke put it best: "A conscientious man would be cautious how he dealt in blood"'.
McGovern, a war hero who won the DFC, was a bomber pilot in WWII.
We may be nearing another moment when people of conscience again must confront and oppose the prospect of an unwinnable war.
347
McGovern was the best president we never had. We would be a better nation if we were the kind of people that would elect him.
4
Millions of people here in America and around the world hit the streets to protest the Iraq 'shock and awe'. Didn't phase the Masters of War at all, did it? What would be different this time? Now we have a 'leader' who would love to sic armed police against peaceful protest. Water cannons would roll.
2
These are sobering thoughts, Mr Kristoff, and we need to focus on the potential for disaster we face with this administration. Things have changed so drastically since this man entered the White House. As a result of his unstable and erratic behavior we now live under the threat of some action by him that might forever alter life as we know it. I don t think it is hyperbolic to say that. It feels more like Dr Strangelove without the humor..
Even the “shiny objects” you mention that might attract too much coverage cannot be ignored. The character of this man is revealed daily by the nature of the accusations against him. And it isn’t as though he appears ahamed by them as much as annoyed. His ability to be provoked by being held to account for his words and deeds is what is most troubling in that he tends to resort to rash acts in reataliation.
The unwavering loyalty of some of his supporters is troubling enough, but their votes can be countered by larger numbers of opposing voters. Until that becomes a possibility, we have Ryan, McConnell and their partisans looking the other way as he and the wrecking crew they helped him install attempt to reverse or destroy any vestige of progress for the American people.
We cannot allow them to succeed.
28
We WERE greeted as “liberators” at the fall of Saddam. If we’d had the art to conduct other than a historically inept occupation, we’d probably still be greeted as liberators.
The actual “invasion” began on 20 March 2003 (although CIA and later our military had inserted some special forces starting in July of 2002 to prepare for the invasion) with the U.S. military conducting perhaps the most successful significant “war” in history, resulting in the destruction of Saddam Hussein’s military forces (fourth largest in the world at that time) and his sovereignty over Iraq, by 9 April 2003 with the fall of Baghdad. The “invasion” was undertaken and pressed to its successful conclusion within three weeks.
It was the inept occupation – most of it politically-orchestrated, and very badly -- that lasted until Barack Obama ended it in 2009 (that required until 2011 for our forces to fully withdraw), and that lasted so many years.
These aren’t trivial points to get wrong.
The invasion was not a “blunder”, much less “one of the most cataclysmic, expensive and idiotic blunders of the last half-century”. Even in real-dollar and U.S. blood terms, not to mention indigenous blood terms, Vietnam was FAR greater in total cost to and its effects on us.
Saddam was a monster of epochal dimension and scope. There was no good end possible for Iraq under Saddam.
Nick offers no alternatives to Saddam’s horrific predations short of invading Iraq to get at Saddam, his sons and his supporters.
A woefully-incomplete PARTIAL list of Iraq’s atrocities under Saddam: ordering the deaths of 148 Shiite men and boys in the village of Dujail after an assassination attempt there in 1982; evidence of more than 250 mass graves dating to his rule, in which may lie up to 500,000 corpses killed on his orders; persecuting thousands of Kurds of the Fayli sect -- some were expelled to Iran, others killed; from Feb-Sept 1988, Saddam conducted a genocidal campaign against the Kurdish population through various means including gassing – 50,000-180,000 were killed; and invasion of Kuwait, including widespread torture, rape and murder of the civilian population.
Iraq under Saddam possessed the world’s fourth largest military, dedicated to enabling his crimes against humanity and protecting him from their legal consequences – short of war, he was untouchable. Even the Saudis, famous for resisting non-Muslim interference in Muslim affairs, sought our help to unseat Saddam, in 1990 (first Iraq War) and in 2003.
It wasn’t the invasion, which was clearly necessary: it was the occupation, so ineptly done, that has proven to us, hopefully forever, that we stink at nation-building but that we have the world’s (and probably history’s) greatest military.
I have full confidence in our military leaders to tell Trump “NO!” if he were to embark on wildly speculative warlike action against ANYBODY. However, our military could well disagree with Nick about what that means.
2
Saddam was a monster but had no nuclear capability {thanks to Israel). He was unable to threaten the Kurds due to our air force's protective shield. However, had he been left alone, would he have permitted Iran to develop its nuclear program? Iran now is our problem. It potentially would have the capability to threaten our allies but for the agreement it has reached with us , our European allies and Russia and China. Our best hope for saving the agreement which is working is for the other signatories continuing to live up to their commitments under the treaty. At that point anything Trump may do becomes irrelevant.
6
moschlaw:
The Iran deal runs for only 15 years and doesn't include development of ballistic missiles. That means even if they had nuclear warheads in 2015, when the pact was signed, they couldn't launch them. However, no later than 2030, they will be able to start developing warheads again. Their solid-state missiles today can reliably reach anywhere in the region, including U.S. military bases and Israel -- we've seen them used to deliver payloads to Syria. Their sophistication, power and reach are increasing, unhampered by any deal.
Even if we assume that Iran will abide by the deal for its entire duration, they're not actually ready yet to threaten everybody with long-range ballistic missiles. But they will be sometime in the next decade. And when they are the incentive for violating the pact and re-starting an aggressive program to develop nuclear warheads will resume. In any event, they won't need anyone's permission to do just that from 2030 on.
Sound familiar? This is precisely the scenario that faced us with North Korea twenty years ago. Well, Kim now HAS ICBMS AND warheads, and we are where we are with him.
It was a bad deal, as Trump stated, the product of a bunch of can-kickers who bought temporary relief at the price of an immensely more potentially destructive and unstable world just a few years down the road.
Trump doesn't want to kick the can down that road any longer, because the implications to a future president (and maybe to him) are unacceptable.
Tell me about all the Democratic led inquiries into the criminality and deception that forced us into war. We’re still waiting.
The elites take care of themselves first- see also, the financial crisis.
8
It is much more than just talk.
Pompeo, the new Sec State has advocated bombing Iran.
Bolton, being considered for Nat Sec has advocated a peremptory strike on North Korea.
The Senate, according to the recent vote on stopping the carnage in Yemen is spineless.
From 'Remember the Maine", to the Tonkin Gulf, to Iraq's "weapons of mass destruction"; America has a history of being lied into war and Trump is the greatest liar the Oval Office has ever seen.
"The rally 'round the flag effect (or syndrome) is a concept used in political science and international relations to explain increased short-run popular support of the President of the United States during periods of international crisis or war. Because rally 'round The Flag effect can reduce criticism of governmental policies," ...So well known it has a Wikipedia section.
The 'rally round the flag effect' just worked brilliantly for Putin with the recent assassination in Britain before the Russian elections. A tactic that earned a congratulatory phone call from Trump.
By all accounts, from even Republicans, the 2018 elections don't look good for the Republicans and Trumps increasing tenuous hold onto power and dreams of 2020 re-election.
War is Trumps only hope to rally the public around the Government for the 2018 elections.
Get ready this summer, that's when the war will start.
Unless, of course, you don't believe that Trump is the type of person who would start a war just to stay in power.
Recent elections
30
I hope the other nations who are also part of the Iran treaty will make it clear that they will uphold it, and stand with Iran. I really hate the idea of my country being isolated like this, but being isolated is way better than starting wars for no good reason. I'm afraid we just have to accept that Trump has trashed our reputation and world standing for some years to come; I hope the rest of the world can stand up together to take our place. Perhaps they can make it clear to Trump that he is not the emperor of the world; we definitely need to make it clear that he is not emperor of the US.
152
I would highly recommend the Frontline special (2 parts) on the Iran / Saudi conflict. It is very well done, interesting, and gives some good insight into the last 50 + years of the US involvement in the region.
And yeah, trump's "I'm a tough guy" approach and rhetoric remind me of Cheney as well.
21
Agreed Nicholas. we are facing three potential wars. But, we are facing these wars with an unstable commander and chief. My take is Trump in and of himself is the number one threat to our nation faces.
168
It’s not merely Trump, but his enablers in Congress - including the meek and often cowed Democrats - and, above all, the passive and often apathetic American public.
4
Yes, we are of like mind. The "March of Folly" (to borrow from the book title) continues.
I tell myself: "It's just history repeating itself." Unfortunately, however, it's not good history. It's history inked in blood.
19
It is wrong to think that the $ 3 Trillion was wasted. Most of the money is spent domestically to finance the military, both for people and equipment. It is as good or better than a stimulus package, that's why there is always a lot of support for a war. More wars mean improvement to the economy.
2
They money comes from somewhere - Someone has to do the work to pay for the stuff, and those someones are the tax payers. So yeah, taxpayers do benefit somewhat from the govt. spending their money in this way, but I'd bet that they would be a lot better off if each household was given 24K instead of spending it on this never ending war.
24
I would urge Paul Krugman to address this fallacy of war as economic stimulus with a column looking at cost/benefit stats on wars from Vietnam through our current "conflicts." The discussion should include actual expenditures, those we would incur if veterans and their families were covered fully for physical and psychological injuries, and the opportunity cost of investing in war materiel and personnel rather than in infrastructure, education, housing and health care.
22
If the Republicans on the Supreme Court hadn't handed the Presidency to George Bush, the trillions could have been spent building infrastructure and investing in innovative industries to create jobs and to build a strong, sustainable economy here at home.
27
These potential things are without qualification terrible and beyond horrible.
To stop Trump before it's too late means abandoning our comfort and stability and take to the streets by the millions. It may well mean revolution.
But doing such things is messy, dangerous and hard work. They require sacrifice and dropping petty differences.
It's my hope that these things will arise spontaneously when everyone senses the moment is right and righteous.
Good luck.
10
A revolution from people who are afraid of guns, or tweets, or talk, surely not.
1
Afraid of tweets, surely not. Disgusted maybe. Not all revolutions require barbarism.
4
If there is such idea as a dystopian present it is now.
14
One difference with the Bush's expensive lunacy in Iraq. In 2003, we had allies that either were committed to support the US or fell for the same fallacious information that the Cheney/Rumsfeld cabal cooked up. As Trump escalates an irrational trade war with China, it is difficult to see them providing anything but resistance to our military or diplomatic options in North Korea. China's resistance could involve their own armed forces, if not on the Korean Peninsula then possibly taking advantage of opportunities elsewhere within their rapidly growing sphere of influence (South China Sea or Pakistan for example). The same is true for Iran where our NATO allies have cautioned against pulling out of the nuclear deal to which they are also a party. It seems unlikely that NATO would enthusiastically join the US, particularly Turkey - a dubious American ally. Would they choose our side or align themselves with Iran, their neighbor and close trading partner? Mr. Kristof should also be worried that it will be America first . . . and America alone.
158
Remember that Bush had packed his administration with people from weapons & military service industries who had been advocating an invasion of Iraq for a decade. They had a wide variety of rationalizations, and a plan for convincing the public. It's hard to imagine Trump having the attention span to unleash a similar year-long publicity campaign, or to go through a similar campaign of bribing allies to give token support.
On the other hand, does Trump even take his position seriously enough to believe that he would need any support beyond his Fox - National Enquirer axis of power? Who knows?. And nether the Republicans, the Democrats, or the press have been held accountable for their collusion with the Iraq debacle; they probably know they have nothing to fear.
54
Right, Bush et al. had a carefully laid out plan--one that was wrong for many reasons, but that nevertheless was "carefully" planned and supported. Trump doesn't do "planning"; he operates by the seat of his pants and has great faith in his "gut instincts". That those instincts are often bone headedly wrong doesn't matter for most of the world, only those people who have the misfortune to be part, willingly or unwilling, of Trump's not-so-artful deals and who are left to deal with the carnage that results. It is impossible to predict when or if he may impulsively decide to take any of a number of world-shaking actions, leaving all of us to deal with what will most likely be tragic results.
9
I'm not a fan of your column but I have to give credit where credit is due:
"Frankly, it seems a bad idea to sacrifice our troops' lives -- along with billions of dollars -- in a way that may add to our vulnerability.
No doubt this seems craven, and I admit there are so many high-minded American hawks and doves that I'm embarrassed that on this issue I'm unprincipled. To me there is no principle involved here; it's just a matter of assessing costs and benefits."
You were 100% correct in 2003
I'm hoping Trump doesn't make a Bush league decision and get us into another unnecessary war.
149
"I'm not a fan of your column" ?
What does that even mean, Miami Joe ?
What offends you the most about Nicholas Kristof ?
His multiple Pulitzer Prizes ?
His undying humanitarian streak ?
His relentless reporting of crises from around the globe ?
...or the fact that you agree with Mr. Kristof ?
It looks like you are a fan of his column after all.
Get your act together.
37
I share your concerns, Nick. In my mind, the Iran deal is a good deal and no one should assume that the deals is a sign of any nation's approval about Iranian activities outside the nuclear program. It is a sign that diplomacy and sanctions can change behavior. One would hope that it would be an example of a "win win" on the world stage. I think Trump is going to end it, sadly. Even if one were to believe that NK would denuclearize in a verifiable way, the Iran deal provides the framework of trust that could be used as an example. If Trump foolishly backs out, NK will be watching and will likely conclude that no deal is even real with the USA (and that is likely true from the American side as well based on recent history).
68
Benjamin Franklin no doubt spoke seriously when he said: "...a republic, if we can keep it." A republic requires thoughtful, well informed, and active citizens; Senators and Representatives who vigorously perform their duty to question the executive; and a free press not easily manipulated.
The situation described by Nicholas Kristof is a consequence of our failure to fully develop any of these and this does not bode well for the future of this republic.
340
“Thoughtful, well informed and active citizens”...I’m afraid that this Country has reached an all time low with respect to the first two. Our First Citizen (Trump) sets the standard...he is neither thoughtful, nor well,informed.
6
That 43% in the Pew survey who approve of the Iraq invasion is equivalent to Trump's approval rating in the Real Clear Politics average.
So the cost of the Iraq war exceeds $3 trillion? And this war was started by those who tell voters they are against excessive and wasteful Government spending!
The Republican congress will not only not complain about the war(s) started by the Republican president, it will cheerlead those wars because their base will be in favor of more armed conflict.
238
Do you need reminding that Trump's opponent in 2016 was an eager and vocal supporter of the 2003 invasion of Iraq? And that the rush to war in '03 was a thoroughly bipartisan affair?
Fact is, few Democrats or Republicans can imagine a world where the US military is not constantly intervening in other nations -- that is, a world where the US is not the global imperial superpower.
2
No Clinton fan here, but she was hardly "an eager and vocal supporter" of invading Iraq. As a "reminder" here's what she said:
"Because bipartisan support for this resolution makes success in the United Nations more likely, and therefore, war less likely, and because a good faith effort by the United States, even if it fails, will bring more allies and legitimacy to our cause, I have concluded, after careful and serious consideration, that a vote for the resolution best serves the security of our nation.
My vote is not, however, a vote for any new doctrine of preemption, or for unilateralism, or for the arrogance of American power or purpose -- all of which carry grave dangers for our nation, for the rule of international law and for the peace and security of people throughout the world. ...
So it is with conviction that I support this resolution as being in the best interests of our nation. A vote for it is not a vote to rush to war; it is a vote that puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our President and we say to him - use these powers wisely and as a last resort."…
8
Thank you Miss Anne Thrope for providing Sen. Clinton's true statement about her vote. I have grown so weary of those who describe her as a war mongering hawk. For emphasis, I include the last paragraph of your comment which bears repeating.
"So it is with conviction that I support this resolution as being in the best interests of our nation. A vote for it is not a vote to rush to war; it is a vote that puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our President and we say to him - use these powers wisely and as a last resort."…"
2
Mr Kristof notes that 43% of Americans think invading Iraq was the correct decision. Two observations. First, we should note that 46.4% voted for Trump. Second, although the invasion was base on false pretenses, and thus wrong, the outcome might have been positive if the Iraqi army had not been dismantled. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/04/washington/04bremer.html
16
Yes, the real mistake was in disbanding the Baath party, who were modernizers and the only group competent to make the trains run on time. But Trump is more than capable of making such a mistake.
16
The real mistake was attempting to rebuild a country with our money and insisting on a political system somewhat designed for us and not at all designed for them.
5
While it seemed to make political sense here in the U.S. and "moral sense" in Iraq to disband the Baath party, it made absolutely no sense in the real world. When there's no electricity, gas, water and little food (vis a vis the Baaths ability to run things), everyone turned on each other and the Suni and Shi'ites went to town on each other.
6