"Libido can be affected by a number of things, including depression, medication, stress, health, affairs, previous sexual trauma, pornography, pain with sex and relationship dissatisfaction (having sex while going through an ugly divorce is probably an outlier)." i'm perhaps unfairly taking my ex-wife inventory here but of the nine things mentioned here i can associate seven of them with her. we lived in a sexless marriage for two decades until the inevitable divorce. she was remarried less than a month after the divorce was final and made a point out of telling me they weren't having sex. Really? do i act like i care? this started in my mid 40's. i'm looking at 68 this summer and i truly mourn the loss of that time. the life i had was not what i wanted for myself. i have a hard time seeing a way forward into a new and more intimate relationship. some recent surgery has apparently left me unable to orgasm so i feel like i'm just playing out the string here.
92
I lasted 23 years before I had an affair. We didn't have sex for more than 10 years. I'm ashamed of what happened, and I would do it again. Denying sex to a partner that wants a sexual relationship is just as cruel as straying in a relationship.
274
Ten weeks into our marriage, an event occurred. The issue of the event wasn't sexual, but the context was. The consequence of the event was that I had a massive emotional breakdown. Collateral damage from the breakdown resulted in a total loss of erotic love for my partner. Today, I am in constant process of forgiving her for the mistreatment I was subjected to. Today, we even hold hands, cuddle in bed and 'smooch'. However, I have no sexual interest in her, and our marriage has remained sexless for over twenty-three years. My wife has other qualities that I appreciate, so please don't think of our marriage as a failure. I consider myself an abstinent, not wanting to hurt my wife by looking for sex outside of marriage. It's not an ideal situation, but one we live with. I didn't know that so many marriages are considered sexless. It helps to realize that I am not alone.
75
I completely identify with this issue. It's a lonely place to be. As the writer says, it's difficult to talk to my girlfriends about. Most would like less sex with their husbands, not more. My husband and I have no physical intimacy despite my numerous attempts. He just isn't interested. We've tried therapy but he ultimately walked out both times. I stay out of respect for the life we built together and our children, but my patience is wearing thin.
151
What's worse than not ever having sex is not sleeping together, not cuddling, not being held. I'm in a relationship with someone who has a movement disorder that creates havoc in him several times a day and he does not sleep. He hasn't slept in a bed in years. So I go to bed alone, I wake up alone and I have a dear friend that I care about. But it's very hard not to have that physical intimacy when I long for it so much. Orgasms are easy, I can give myself great orgasms. But I can't wrap my arms around myself and hold me tight. Chronic illnesses can really wreck intimacy. As I go into my older years it's what I crave more than anything. And I can't get it. Ah, well.
It's been very helpful reading these comments. Thank you to all.
221
As a gay man, Ifind the title of this article a bit insensitive. In any relationship of mine, if there's a sexual problem, it's obviously going to be at least one of the men!
40
It’s not insensitive to write from one’s own experiences, as she has done here. And she’s not woman- or gay-splaining to those whose experiences differ. That seems like a positive.
191
My husband and I had one of the greatest, most exciting sex lives one could imagine...on a very regular basis (from 5-10 a week), in a loving monogomous relationship for seven years (four while "dating," three while married.) My husband was 41 and I was newly divorced and 38. My husband never even lived with a woman and had never been in a monogamous relationship; sex was a sport he had hundreds of women. One day, about three years after we were married, he just moved out of our bedroom and simply said "I've had all the sex I need for the rest of my life. We had tons of fun, you're the greatest six partner I ever had. He not only dismissed me sexually, he dismissed physical closeness, companionship, being part of a couple. Although I know physicality has very little to do with real love and married intimacy, I still in great shape (as a former ballerina and model.) We were utterly in love. And then, all gone! I remember my last attempt: Valentine's Day and a cheap mighty. He implored I return it because "at least your old t-shirt and shirts won't cost me anything." 16 yrsago. I haven't been held, hugged, kissed in all this time because my husband casually determined he didn't care. It's the intimacy and hugs I miss. Turns out my he has a neurological degenerative disease called FTD. Naturally selfish but the disease pushed things along. He's been emotionally at arms length with us all, including our son: the joy of his life. My son's really the one who lost out fatherly love
81
I looked up FTD It is indeed complicated, something associated with the Frontal Temporal Dementia (??). Such a tragedy for you. The dismissal of you appears connected to this diagnosis, complicated by the fact you believe he always was "naturally selfish". Perhaps you have already tried therapy in which both of you can legitimately "blame" this awful diagnosis for your problems and figure out what you can do to make it through and also give your son some understanding of what is going on with Dad.
36
My 22-year-long sexless marriage began with a misunderstanding. I was grieving. He thought he had found a wonderful woman not interested in sex. I thought I’d found a wonderful man who was kind enough to wait, a little. We married swiftly. I was certain that sex was a wonderful part of marriage: my mother had told me so. She was in her 70s when she said to me, “sex was always the best part of marriage with your father. Still is, for that matter.” I feared my husband and I had erred when, after some two weeks since the last time, I tried to wake him orally (at an appropriate hour), and he responded “oh not that again.” Still, he had strong points, and mother had also said she a daddy had unhappy times, stayed together, and they now got to be old together, with their family intact. And I couldn’t think of another reason to divorce my husband. I could not embarrass him by using that. I just couldn’t imagine doing that to him. My husband made accommodations, enjoying my cheerful mien when it occurred, never inquiring once for fifteen years what had brought the bloom to my cheeks. And after the changing vaginal landscape post menopause, I felt the freedom (and free time!) that post-sexuality brings. People ought to be gentle and good with each other, and search for common solutions.
38
"The fact that people who hated each other were having more sex than me did not make me feel better. Not at all."
This was true with my divorce as well. The best part of my 12 year relationship was the sex, so why not? But there is a lot more to a relationship than sex. Intellectual incompatibility is more important than sex, which, push come to shove can be found discreetly, outside the relationship.
34
Wow men don’t want to have sex all the time? I wonder what other male stereotypes the nyt wants to prove or disprove. People are people. Not everyone wants the same thing. Sexless marriages or sex filled marriages, whatever floats your boat really. No need to make people question what they have going for no reason. There are plenty of people who do not give a hoot about sex. Asexuality is a thing, look it up.
40
Both my wife and I are 71 and we have plenty of sex. Maybe it is living in Las Vegas. The lifestyle here is on the fast lane and there are lots of scintillating shows available in many of the casinos. Legal prostitution is available in the neighboring county as it supposedly illegal within Clark County (Las Vegas). But who needs that when you have a gorgeous wife at home.
58
I wonder if the author asked her ex if he was comfortable with her sharing intimate details of their life with millions of readers?
57
This is really good question.
I personally think by the time one leaves a relationship and says they are leaving because of lack of sex, couple things are clear:
This person has not learned or do not want to share the truth
No one leaves a great relationship because of lack of one activity...but many will leave relationship because they were ignored or dismissed when they tried to bring up an issue for discussion. They felt they were not heard and that is grounds for leaving...and I can almost bet that they were not heard for many reasons and the lack of sex is just one of them.
The ex in this relationship has his own story. And many others wrote here stories about leaving sexless marriages and the person who did not seem to want the sex finding someone else and being married and all that but the one who wanted sex is here commenting how they are single now.
People are complicated. And sometimes most of us do not know how to ask what we want.
I wonder if anyone ever said, I feel unheard, unseen, and I am sad in a relationship that lacked sex and for sure other things. People do not say that cause many people do not want to be vulnerable...and if you are avoiding vulnerability whether you know it or not, you will avoid sex and intimacy too.
49
Sex is really easy to get disillusioned with. In a lot of ways, it's incompatible with our higher consciousness. It's base, hedonistic, animalistic. It represents just about everything we try to distance ourselves from as a civilization. At one point not long ago when we were gibbering arboreal apes it was the end all be all but now it's just a link to a primal world that, when reflected upon deeply, reveals the absurdity of our existence as we try so hard to be modern while retaining so many flaws, needs and urges of a bestial origin. Depending on the constitution of the person and his/her self-consciousness of this fact, this can have serious consequences as one serious questioning of one of life's staple activities (which sex/sexuality is or so we are told) leads to another unanswerable question. Things can spiral downwards quickly.
45
Sexless can be just fine - as long as it's mutually acceptable, as this essay points out. We're in our late-60s/early-70s. We were both lusty youths, and we got together 14 years ago. I'm a prostatectomy survivor with all the usual side effects. She's perfectly happy without sex. (We've discussed it at length, so it's not a supposition on my part.) Fortunately, our intercourse - that four-letter word that ends with 'k,' talk - is robust and we're both very happy in our relationship. It's quite liberating not to have to deal with sex.
64
Our sex diminished when the two children were young. Similar to the author. I have been an engaged father for 40 years, the daily cook, grocery shopper, in addition to car packet, bike pumper, story teller.
When I felt the rejection from my wife I didn't know what to do, so I internalized it. I shut the libido off. I remember those days. It was do hard and frustrating. But the alternative was dogging around and that's not my style.
Time passed. She woke up, snapped out of it. And I was expected to snap out of it and man up. After all, like the lady doctor says, men are the ones with the drive, right?
But the habit has been set. There is very occasional sex, she gets off, but I don't. I do my duty. I guess I've become an object.
But I love my wife, my partner. Just wish it would have worked out a little better.
105
Why not try taking charge of the situation and initiating instead of waiting for the man to initiate a physical encounter? Sleeping naked may be an invitation, but changing times may be putting more responsibility on women to take charge in charge in the bedroom.
25
All of this, including the Drs article, are nothing more than anecdote.
Peer review studies confirm that men think about sex, desire sex, seek out sex, pleasure themselves, and endure much higher costs for sex than woman...by hugely statistically significant margins. These results of course are in the aggregate.
Men who don't desire sex with their female partner, don't desire sex with that partner. Bit they still in the aggregate desire sex more frequently than woman.
How do we know this?
Men who are in "sexless" marriages masterbate much more freqently than women in those marriages.
It's not even close. Let's stop trying to convince ourselves that men and women have the same sex drive.
61
Begging your pardon, but we’ve been up front and perfectly clear about the background we bring to this subject, and there’s nothing anecdotal about the scientific work that underlies our theoretical framework.
What’s more, we’ve tried to be clear about offering support to those whose personal stories (appropriate forum fare) and interpretations of personal experiences are in more or less close agreement with the studies we know, and our own work.
There are so many mistaken pathways in the literature over the last 60 to 80 years, it can be difficult to parge the chaff and get any sense of the truth. We recommend an entirely neutral approach; once we began our work, we found it beneficial to look behind every study we read, to find areas of coincidence in findings that weren’t (on the surface) connected, and so on.
Skepticism is necessary in studying sexual behavior. Evolution has constructed a pretty intense shield to direct understanding, with good reason.
The first person whose opinions you should discount is yourself. Work out from there, establishing trust where it can be demonstrated, especially where you can invoke the ‘power of two’, that is, a serendipitous confluence of opinion or experience that you can be certain wasn’t drawn from a common influence.
It’s not laziness that’s caused us to be after this stuff for fifty years. Its really that difficult.
—Tom & Kay
50
When my husband thought it was OK to have sex with me while I was reading the NYT, that ended the sexual relationship for me. And the marriage.
37
I wonder why you didn't put the paper down when you saw he was interested in sex - or as we used to call it, Making Love? Or, if you didn't want it right then, you couldn't say "later, please?" There was a lot more wrong going on there than just that scene! Really, none of MY business, but you did bring it up....
37
That can happen on the third reading of "Catch 22" also.
21
Some men are loose sexual interest in their partners if they gain a lot of weight.
Nor saying that's nice, or right, just saying that it happens.
22
That dynamic can work both ways. As many have noted, people are people. Men gain weight as they age. "Beer bellies" theoretically could be equally off-putting.
64
Aging masculine hygiene is another off-putting event!
84
I am happily married...and I want to say few things.
First we are newly married. We are at our 5th year. We had unbelievable sex for the first 2 years even while going through fertility. We still have hot sex but not close to the frequency we had before.
What changed is the frequency but not the hotness. I caught myself few times judging the frequency and we talked about it and this is what I came to realize.
I talked to others. I read about it and these are the signs the lessened frequency is serious or just a passage of life.
You are in trouble if:
You stop laughing like children.
You stop looking into each other's eyes when talking, connecting.
You are no longer affectionate.
You cannot joke about sex or lack of frequency (or the sex became like egg shell walking scenario)
You stopped spending time together (or you are spending much less)
Work or other activities are more important than being together and doing nothing.
It is really good to look at the relationship rather than one area.
To me sexless marriage is when even talking about is painful. We are not there because we still have hot sex but much less than (like 4 times each weekend as we did before)...but we understand.
We also take vacations and the change makes the new bed hot!
Just adding.
Ps. the most important thing is talking about the change is not painful or uncomfortable...if it is, there is more to the relationship.
my two cents
77
The cartoon that accompanies this article shows a trim young woman rocking a bikini. For many men that may be what they started out with at the altar but after a baby or two it is far from the reality. Most young men naively don't see this coming and they believe their pretty bride will stay that way for a long time and not lose it in a year or two. The extra 50 pounds, the huge jagged purple stretch marks, the deeply sagging breasts; sometimes a guy just gives up and endures his relationship so he can keep his kids. I know that many will lash out at my comments under the naive idea that love makes a guy horny but we all know that's untrue.
50
Any man that immature should not have married. My maternal grandmother died an agonizing death from cancer in her 60's and my grandfather never remarried. My paternal grandfather lost his hearing, but my grandmother remained with him until his death 10 years before hers. My late father suffered numerous medical conditions including quadruple bypass, testicular cancer, and diabetes. My mom grieved him deeply and lived only 2 years after his death.
Obviously I know nothing about their sex lives, but I grew up seeing strong, loving marriages. Except for a few sugar daddies who can convince themselves that a bikini body gold digger really loves them, shallow men who see the mothers of their children as deformed by weight gain and stretch marks will likely spend their waning years alone.
144
I think men have for a very long time have expected women to look a certain way due to media feeding their ignorance of what real women’s bodies and aging looks like. Not everyone has perfect genes. I am a man who’s not a pig and I love women of all shapes.
130
The lashing out began rapidly. Some anticipatory schadenfreude and ad hominem attack. The reality for me ended happily with a great LTR with a woman still attractive fifteen years after her last pregnancy. Guys and gals with partners who don’t meet your needs just don’t give up. You can find happiness.
10
We have gone from #MeToo to #MeNeither.
75
In response to a few comments here, sex does not always taper off. I had a relationship that lasted almost 12 years, and all the way up through the end of it sex was frequent and sessions were long. And we were in our 50s, so it wasn't an age-related hormonal dynamic. For us, it was a simply function of immense sexual compatibility.
22
It's been nineteen years without sex for me and 8 years or more before that when the sex was obviously perfunctory for my husband and not something he wanted at all. Looking back I wonder if that wasn't the onset of the dementia that is now taking away even more of the man I met 40 years ago.
Why am I still married? I can't answer that, really. I can get off without a partner, so the orgasms are frequent and strong, but I miss the intimacy.
66
Of course there are couples in which the woman has a higher sex drive than the man. Did it take you people to read this article to discover this? Really?
But statistically speaking, the reverse situation is more frequent. By a wide margin. You will learn this from more studies than you would have time to read in a whole year, but you don't need to. You already know it, simply by looking around you and talking to people.
So, the not-so-subtle message behind this article - the hypothesis that men and women have equally demanding libidos on average, and that "society" would blind us into thinking otherwise - this hypothesis is already known to be incorrect, based on mountains of evidence. And based on common sense.
But I guess the author of this article simply doesn't care about facts. She has opinions and she's using a case study (her own past relationship) to try to prove her point, ignoring everything else.
In science, we call this a n=1, and we also call it an investigator-biased study.
24
Dr. Gunter didn't assert that the instances of low libido were equal on average for both sexes. She did, however, report that by introducing in conversation the possibility of male low libido, she heard numerous confirming responses. Moreover, if you read the comments section for more than a few minutes, you will find the many testimonials of female readers who have lived with the problem.
65
The approach may be anecdotal, but that’s an appropriate mode of presentation for this forum.
This wasn’t a scientific paper, nor was it a news story about a scientific presentation.
We can vouch for the general validity of the assertions in the article. Our opinion is based on a lot of crawling through the science behind this subject, starting with the neural basis of behavior, commencing through the study of social and personal relationships, and in particular the mental, personal and social mechanics of rape.
When we describe what we know and how we know it, people go to sleep. This article energizes. We think that’s a good thing.
But it’s still right on, from our perspective.
—Tom & Kay
31
I've been in a sexless marriage for decades. My husband is the one who stopped showing interest long ago. After trying just about everything, I took on a lover. He was in the same position - his wife had no interest in sex. We have kept our relationship a secret from just about everyone - we have no interest in hurting our partners or our kids, who are now grown. Living a lie is painful, but living in a marriage with no intimacy was worse. Some will pass judgement, disapprove, opine that we should have left our spouses instead of cheating and breaking our vows, but we both had our reasons for not doing so. Those who advised me to marry someone who was my best friend? Bad idea. Sex and intimacy is critical, and being compatible sexually is vitally important in a marriage.
193
I've been in a sexless relationship and will never allow it again. Being single is 1,000 times better than being rejected.
128
[[According to one study, approximately 15 percent of married couples are sexless: Spouses haven’t had sex with each other in the past six months to one year.]]
Lose weight. Change your wardrobe. Get a haircut. See a dentist for a deep cleaning. Get a hobby. Get a modern pair of eyeglasses. Cheer up. Make an effort.
These are all the things friends of mine did immediately after getting a divorce, some in pursuit of new adventures and some at the urging of the new partner.
Go buy a couple dozen pair of boxer briefs (in black, stupid, no tighty whities) and get a new body wash. Buy new pillows and new sheets. Show up in bed smelling like lavender instead of reheated pizza.
You're welcome.
75
You completely missed the point. Most anyone in a sexless relationship has tried all this and more. You are also buying into the assumption that if your lover doesn’t want to have sex, then it’s your fault. The whole point is to dispel the myth that men want sex more than women. Your welcome.
123
Dr. Gunter: Thank you for being brave and revealing your own disappointment and confusion about this. And I do want to weigh in about the passionate very intense sex during the very horrible divorce. It happens and I think it makes sense actually. It happened to us. If you were in a high desire marriage and it is flaming out it is a way to stay in the same room without talking or saying and hearing things you don't want to say or hear...It's the only thing that still feels good in the face of the overall despair. But as to the men with low desire...Coming out of a sexually very happy marriage I was amazed when I started to meet others that not all men were full of happy, unashamed desire. And you are not going to fix it-not by talking, waiting, being understanding, hinting, being instructed about your hair, your clothes, your body, your tone of voice. 7 years ago I met another high desire man. He's old enough to have ED but doesn't ever. There is no tiresome negotiating. Only delight and smiles. Is the relationship otherwise perfect ? No. But sex is not a battleground. It actually is a bed of roses and I'm 65. I like the Tanya Tucker song : " If it don't come easy, just let it go." I'm very sorry that people spend decades either being denied or feeling pressured. The comments are heart breaking. Thank you for bringing this up in the N Y Times.
92
When we first met, my husband and I had lots of sex. But as the years passed, our value systems changed, and we started talking less and disagreeing more. To avoid fights, we began sleeping on opposite sides of the bed, not touching or talking.
Then, I realized recently that I last had sex ~8 years ago! That's bad. I told my husband we needed to get some professional help. However, that can be easier said than done.
Since it can be difficult to discuss this topic with friends and family, I found an online peer support forum for others in sexless relationships at iliasm.org . ( "ILIASM" is an acronym for "I Live In A Sexless Marriage.) Both men and women are finding themselves rebuffed sexually by their partners, and it's a burden to both parties.
I've found it amazingly comforting to know that I'm not the only one out there struggling to live without sex. There are no easy solutions to this problem. But connecting with others who are in the same boat makes me feel more normal, at least.
If you're feeling isolated and rejected sexually, please reach out and speak to someone-a professional counselor, iliasm.org or another online forum, and of course, your partner. As the article notes, sexless marriages do not magically resolve unless confronted directly.
29
To paraphrase Stalin (and sorry for even remotely citing a dictator):
Six months without sex is painful.
Ten years without sex is a statistic.
I've been married 25 years, and have had sex about three times this century. Last time 13 years ago and counting. Miss it almost every day. But the beginning was the worst - when I thought I could change things, when I saw how life was going to be with the man I loved and got along with in every other way.
Stopped "talking about it" a long time ago - mostly due to exhaustion. Then someone suggested to me that my husband is asexual. After that sank in, there was not point trying to fix things by any means.
Monogamy has its obvious advantages, but we cannot deny it's far from easy or perfect for human beings.
53
How did you conclusively rule out all the other factors to determine that the issue was just a mismatched libido. I suspect that his loss of interest in sex may most likely be due to a diverted interest. Do you feel certain that the two of you have had a completely honest dialogue on the matter?
6
To the Author : Perhaps if You didn't treat intimacy as simply another procedure in the examination of your Marriage...You may then proceed to undergo immersion therapy within your Relationship; this diagnosis may be remedy for the cure of what ails - that is, personal not professional, what is en-valued as exclusive and not for the Forum. Life is in the balance.
1
Why is sex such a big deal at all? I think interests declines because it is a repetitive and not very interesting activity. When we are young it is new and interesting and fun... but after a while it is just sex. It’s like anything you do over and over again - it just becomes boring, rote. It seems to me that it is society that says we should have sex and be interested in sex, but is it really so bad if interests change?
129
Society today seems to reward men with a low sex drive. It’s men who want sex frequently who are the villains of the me too movement.
9
The men who are villains of the #metoo movement are not villains because of their sex drive. Forcing people to have sex with you when they're not even a little bit interested (also known as rape) has nothing to do with sex drive and everything to do with power and control.
175
I can never quite find myself in these stories even though I am in a sexless marriage. It seems to me that if a relationship requires therapists, counselors, doctors, etc. to produce sex . . . Then maybe the relationship just isn't meant to be sexual?? Discussions of sexless marriages also always seem predicated on the assumption that the relationship had passionate origins and that sex has 'trailed off'. Well, what if you and your partner were never passionately in love? What if your reasons for being married are rooted in something other than or more than attraction and love? (Pregnancy and becoming a family for instance). What if after a decade or more you've expended whatever you had in that department, neither partner is sexually attracted to or desirous of the other, the sex was lousy anyway, and the man also has erectile dysfunction? I suspect most would say, "you must get divorced!" But what if you are great as partners and parents, have a solid, stable, nurturing family and home, and divorce would destroy your children's world and ruin you both financially? It's just not so simple. Platonic, companionate marriages are a reality.
82
She did not say that everyone had to have sex to be happy. She did say that if both partners are happy with the frequency, or lack there of, of the sex in their marriage then it was fine. It is only a problem if one of the partners is unhappy.
35
I think the author covers this in saying "If a couple doesn’t have sex but they both feel satisfied, then there is no problem. The issue is when there’s a mismatch in desire."
The reasonable stance is that, if you're both satisfied, that's great! This is clearly about: if someone isn't satisfied, and they are alone in feeling that, that's probably going to be an issue.
Put differently: if you and your friend routinely skip lunch, plans that don't include lunch is fine! if your friend routinely skips lunch, you don't, and your plans include shopping from 10 to 4 with no break, one of you will be really hungry, and that isn't fine. Make sense?
22
I spent nearly 32 years in a sexless marriage.
Growing up in the 50s and 60s, I was warned by my church and by my very rigid mother that sex before marriage was a sin. “Saving myself for marriage,” and anticipating joy and physical bliss as a wife, I was stunned when six weeks into marriage, both of us in our 20s, my husband stopped being interested. Being too tired was his most common excuse.
Despite counseling ( me,not him; he refused to go) we had sex on average, every 2-4 months. Fortunately, those infrequent intervals were enough to produce children and my delight in holding them, cuddling them and kissing their sweet heads each night made up -in part -for the connection missing in my marriage. I wonder if other women find compensation in the sheer physicality of mothering.
Much later, I discovered that my husband did indeed enjoy sex, just not with me. His secret was pornography and other women. (And with the wisdom of age, I now suspect he might be secretly gay.) He eventually married one of the women with whom he’d been having an affair. I often wonder if she was as surprised as I was when married sex didn’t interest him.
Sometimes I question if ignoring the advice of my mother and the church and indulging in more sex and with more partners would have helped me find a husband more sexually compatible, but like much else in life, no one knows the answer to roads not taken.
134
Thank you for addressing a sensitive subject. I was in a sexless marriage for 22 years. Our two week honeymoon—nothing. I felt rejected and deeply lonely. My husband would become withdrawn or angry when I brought up the subject. He would not admit that this wasn’t normal. Now that I am no longer married due to my husband’s recent suicide, I see the sexual problems as symptomatic of much deeper issues. I wish I had not endured the marriage because it was really a sham marriage. I wish I had left. Interestingly, the only person I confided this to was my OB/GYN.
55
Why can't sex be as complicated for men as it is for women? Are we evolving or not?
12
Yes, monogamous relationships are difficult, but also rewarding. We’ve been married close to 40 years, we’ve gone through a sexless period (from his side), and now the sex is better than it ever was. I’m not trying to preach or to suggest that all relationships can be fixed - but all is not hopeless, either.
20
Everyone is different. We’ve been married for 30 . For the last 20 we’ve shared ourselves with others, mostly as a couple. We’ve had partners, lovers, and many an evening’s entertainment. We’ve both gone through hormonal changes (menopause) and indulged in the luxury of treating it. Our interactions with others has diminished a bit but it remains a part of our lives. Sex with each other has only become more fulfilling.
It’s not for everyone but should be considered by more. Monogamy can be a limited framework for a couple to live within.
15
Unfortunately, eschewing monogamy turns out to be the limiting case, although Mr. Evolution has constructed a convincing veil that mostly hides this fact from easy observation.
The modern human mating strategy, A.K.A long term pair bonding, delivers an experiential space that lives in dimensions unreachable by other means.
Not simple, or easy, or (in some aspects) even possible to describe, a tyranny of language that is part of the obfuscation trick...
Tom & Kay
3
Many excellent comments, thank you all for sharing. Never been married and likely will never do so, yet appreciate the importance of the topic. Similar to long term relationships I'd imagine. I'd humbly state there are a few important variables at work that explains lack of sexual desire in either partner (or both), as you all have acknowledged.
Both men and women come in all varieties. yet can only speak for myself: I get very turned on with new partners and new relationships. Libido is great and I enjoy the intimacy and physical pleasures of hot sex and do strive to please the other person as well.
However, I know this is lame and simple, yet just lose strong sexual desire after some time, nothing really specific, just happens. Life stress and schedule issues tend to be key reasons though. I feel bad, yet I just think some men (and likely women) prefer the novelty of a new person.
Perhaps I must emotionally mature, yet I read articles and great truthful comments from articles such as this and realize monogamous long term relationships seem to be a major drag over time. I do like the companionship and friendship connection, yet with sex and sex desires, the waters can truly get muddy.
Is is really realistic to think most relationships will have the strong libido and physical desire over many years that they had initially during the very early stages of the relationship?
Sorry, just not realistic. Many reasons...
14
I appreciate your honesty, and there are probably a lot of guys like yourself, but you should know that there are a lot who only get more turned on as time goes on with the same partner. The continued strong sexual chemistry in these types of relationships makes it hard to break them off, when the rest of the relationship doesn't work at all.
The best lovers are the guys whose sexual desire in a long term relationship is generally consistent. They learn things the other types of guys can't even contemplate, and have no idea what they're missing out on. Not that you're one of these guys, but men who are looking around at other women, while in a "committed" relationship, are the worst lovers…it's like high school sex all over again. We just don't ever confide that to those men, because we know they aren't going to change. I've can find positives about most of my relationships, but the fact is that guys who haven't been in long term relationships are the worst lovers…every time.
55
Hooray! Stella, you get it, and good for you.
Really isn’t so easy to describe, though, is it? We’ve studied the reasons for this since the Sixties, and what we’ve managed to condense into solid theory is just as difficult to put into words.
It takes a forum like this to pry back the covers far enough for these statements to survive. Thanks so much for sharing so eloquently.
Tom & Kay
8
The assumption that married couples should continue having sex all their lives is culture-specific. In the classical Indian scheme of things, sex and family occupy one in the householder stage, from approximately age 25 to age 50. From age 50 to 75 after the children are grown up, the couple continues to live together and work for society's welfare. Sex still happens but not as frequently and is not as important. From 75 to 100, one dedicates oneself to seeking liberation. Obviously, these ages are not set in stone and will vary. I have known many couples who were happy together but preferred to sleep in separate beds or even separate rooms (as was the upper class norm up to the twentieth century in England) after a certain age, and to pursue their own varying (non-sexual) interests.
22
DISGUST - I was just a little cleaner than my wife. Early into our relationship it was easy to ignore - surely all would adjust. Instead it developed. We worked together as craft artists and I, of course, saw that she thrived in messiness. It inspired her to match and experiment with shapes and colors. She was good at that. My working space was rather neat and orderly in comparison. Business was good. Home life was sort of in between, it included animals and was for the most part casually clean. But over time, quietly and little by little, I gritted my teeth and separated my spaces from hers. It lasted about fifteen years. About then, I found excuses not to massage her feet. It went on from there. Eventually it developed into my feeling that she was a pig. A couple years later, that was that.
When bringing up this subject of "who's cleaner" with couples, the answers generally go like this: "We're pretty close, but...". Little by little.
14
Well of course it started with the foot massages. Yuck!
6
I read this after coming home from CVS with testosterone for both my husband and me. We married later in life (48 me and 54 him). I have always had a strong sexual appetite and many partners even when i was overweight. In the past 13 years though, a hysterectomy, colon cancer and bladder incontinence which followed the hysterectomy means that embarrassment overrides whatever desire I have left. MY HRT is supposed to help--but not quite sure it has. My urologist is recommending the T for both of us. We both want to be sexual, just can't seem to get there. Our love is deeper and sweeter than ever. So I risk chest hair and a beard to have a sliver of the sex life we once had. I hope it is worth it.
17
With your history of cancer, that is an insane risk to take for a few seconds of pleasure
15
Testosterone effects are dose dependent. Hopefully you're on a very low dose compared to him and you don't accidentally swap.
3
I was in a sexless marriage, and now I'm divorced. The separation was complicated, but sex was a big factor. And, to support the article, I was the one (a male) that could not find the desire to have sex. To make her feel better, I used to tell my wife that I just showed my love in different ways. I wanted to believe it too. Even if it was true, it didn't prevent the pain and resentment that was built on not having sex. I've since realized (probably because of a sexless marriage) how important sex is for me to feel healthy and balanced. Not cheap sex -- deep connection with another human. But, that realization is pretty scary. I'm terrified of falling into another relationship where the sex is good for 12 months and then fizzles out. I don't have the answer. But, I think sex early in a relationship can be maintained by novelty and physical desire alone. But, if you don't have authentic trust and emotional connection with someone, sex will eventually die. Sexy underwear and date night will not help. And the modern world with competing careers, household budgets, chores, schedules ... etc. seems to be a direct assault on the very foundations necessary for a long lasting and healthy sex life. Good luck everybody.
68
bingo, and frankly it does not help that movies and TV feature (most often) sexy SECOND marriages by forty and fifty somethings (who spend hours a day in the gym). Obviously on TV and PG type movies nothing is shown, but the hints, leers, and double entendres are unmistakable. Especially when it shows the woman as the initiator, and the man says (for ex), "last night was amazing, where did you learn that?" and she says "it's like riding a bicycle"(just making it up but many examples). It makes a sexless couple doubly uncomfortable and causes arguments and tears
7
Mike is exactly right. Authentic trust and an emotional connection are the foundation of a healthy love & sex life. If you don't trust your partner, it gets increasingly more difficult to be intimate.
37
Thank you so much for this article. While being in a relationship for over 3 years the man I was with said how important sex was for intimacy in a/our relationship. In his previous 20 year marriage he hadn't had sex and realized what had been missed. By us having this intimacy he realized the importances of how we related, bringing us closer together. I think it is worth the effort.
14
Great article. My wife and I have gone through many changes and adjustments as we face changes in our bodies due to my prostate cancer and her menopause. The one thing that really seems to help when the bedroom starts to “weaponize” is just talking. Together for 36 years we know each other so well that sometimes we forget to spend time clarifying our feelings. Getting back to the basics really helps. That cake won’t bake itself!
57
Dear Dr. Gunter,
Thank you so much for this series of articles. So many people don’t even receive sex ed early in life, and then proceed based on information from others’ bragging, sitcoms and ads, and superstitions. Every article has been fact-based, candid, and kind. You may open many minds and inspire many healing conversations. My mom, sister, and I often share your articles, because they’re a breathe of fresh air. Thank you!
37
The study that you cited from Stanford actually shows that 15 undergraduates in a new relationship were distracted by pictures of their new lovers. That’s all it really showed.
Those undergrads were equally distracted by a word puzzle, and no one knows if they would have been equally distracted by pictures of previous lovers.
Please avoid the temptation to use science to prove your pre-existing point - the purpose of science is to question received wisdom.
13
I agree. I don’t think the source of the loss of interest in sex was adequately determined in this article.
6
I'm sure this is a widely-read article and that the comments equally are well-read. We all have our own story and are eager to see how many others are like ours. Here's mine: Two marriages, 17 and 10 years respectively, three kids from the first, and the latter said it was the best sex of her life. However, sex declined in both after a few years and then only happened when the wife had a lot to drink. I would note that both had pre-existing alcohol and mental health issues -- one is a BPD, the other an off-the-charts Narcissist. Still, the general rule-of-thumb, based on my experience and others', is that women become bored with us (long-term husbands), sexually and otherwise, much more so than we do with them. There are exceptions to every rule (such as the author's case) and there are intervening reasons (ED, I imagine) that might cause the man to lose sexual interest, but any hint of a come-on (let alone coming to bed naked!) by one's wife would be jumped-on (literally and figuratively) by the typical guy -- trust me! But what is universally true is that once the interest in sex wanes, it becomes almost impossible to restore it, and inevitably what once was a raging fire burns out, leaving a cold, sterile marriage. My view is that this is an inevitable part of our human condition (i.e., monogamy is not built into our DNA, especially on the female side) and social norms constrict our base instincts. The French probably have it right -- everyone should have a lover.
40
Two example of women with pre-existing mental health and alcohol problems, and the same man in both cases, and the conclusion is "women become bored with . . . husbands . . . much more than we do with them." Seems like a willful ignorance of multiple situational distinctions, and an interesting upending of the biological imperative of which sex is more likely to seek multiple partners, to be able to conclude that it wasn't me, it was her, and by the way, all those "hers" are all alike. Why? Because I said so.
21
To disheartened GOPer , By your own admission you chose women who had MAJOR issues. It would be as if a woman chose to marry someone like Donald Trump.
18
All I can say is that I didn't become aware of their deep issues until it was too late -- they were both very good at hiding their true nature. I married both after short courtships -- my fault for sure! In both cases, the sex -- and they are both beautiful women -- was fantastic at the start (even without alcohol) and then for the first few years of marriage. So maybe (actually, probably) the takeaway from my story is that great sex (even with beautiful people) cannot substitute for love (whatever that it is) and, based on the comments of many others, love and affection alone cannot sustain a sexless marriage.
9
I am in a new marriage at 65 with a woman 25 years younger with three kids. My wife isn't a centerfold but is definitely good enough that I can buy her racy underwear and she looks very good in it. There has been a problem with frequency after the first year but I think that is normal. And while my wife may no longer be as interested in sex as she was when she was younger and without kids---wanting kids is a big motivator for women to have sex---I find that I am not as able to perform as I was even 5 or 6 years ago. For me at least the idea is to get the best return on my investment for the least amount of investment. A rule that I think my wife agrees with. If sex is not as frequent or as good as I like the fact that there are regular encounters where we attempt to be intimate means a lot over and above how either of us performs. There are definitely other benefits to a committed relationship other than sex. And there are many levels of intimacy too. You don't necessarily have too "go all the way" to have a satisfying and memorable intimate encounter. I'm just saying try to work with the situation as it is and be as happy as you can be with what you've got and look on the positive side while you patiently work to make things better for both of you.
33
Interesting article that rings true for our situation. We married in our late 30's (me) and early 40's (him). The sex was good but not great. Early issues with ED made spontaneous sex impossible and the medication had some unpleasant side effects, so we eventually found it easier to stop trying. Now, 10 years later, we've dealt with prostate cancer too. Do I miss sex? Definitely. But I am happy with a loving relationship that has warmth, laughter, and shared interests? Yes.
I do agree with the author that it's hard to speak about this. I don't discuss this situation with my closest friends because I think it would be a betrayal of my husband to share something so personal. I haven't mentioned it to my doctor in years. Maybe I'll consider a conversation with my doctor after reading this, but I'm not sure there's a solution out there that we haven't tried and none worked for us.
81
“Sexuality and relationships are complex, and there are no easy answers.”
Amen to that. But the primary source of the continuing level of confusion about these issues is one very simple fact: the basis of the confusion is hidden in plain sight.
Almost all of the wisdom available is hampered by the lack of a basic understanding of the behavioral systems we’re all born with, the under-the-table brain systems that drive and control (to an extent far deeper than necessary) the myriad of experiences that arise through arousal.
We’ve been studying this for more than fifty years, since we met as seniors in high school and went off together to college, innocently certain we’d find all the answers there.
We’ve been through our own arousal ups and downs, normal things like taking care of a newborn, not-so-unusual things like prostate cancer and the follow on medication.
We knew enough about what makes our species tick to adjust easily to the former, and to other similar interruptions. It helped that we had to deal early in our relationship with the trauma of childhood rape, not so easy, but we did it, and we understood a lot more about ourselves looking back.
And the latter, despite the standard wisdom of our oncology team, had almost no effect on our frequency, quality, or any other metric, mainly because by that time we had learned enough to ‘borrow’ each other’s arousal.
Not so simple at all, and without a grasp of the underlying mechanisms, it won’t get any simpler soon.
19
Females of many species die when they can no longer reproduce. It seems odd that evolution has led to female humans routinely living 20+ years past menopause. In a 35+ year marriage, sex is one of many gifts I give my husband when he requests it. And if stopped requesting it but the rest of our relationship continued apace, that would be fine, too.
Does no one believe any more in "for richer, for poorer, for better, for worse, in sickness and in health, till death do is part"? I'm not religious, but I see that as a commitment we made to each other, that I would no more violate than I would attorney-client privilege.
43
Not so odd at all. Google ‘the grandmother hypothesis’ and see what our species has developed as an advanced form of mating behavior.
Our modern mating strategy is (gasp!) mostly civilized. It focuses on nurturing, in particular extending the influence of supportive family across three generations.
It’s a strategy intended to not just fling one’s genetic materiel willy-nilly into the next generation, but to stick around and prepare it to compete in the game that produces the generation following that.
There’s a lot more to it than this may imply, but the basics are clear enough. We’re getting better at doing this thing in a nice way, and there is a huge payoff in the competition for high-status mates.
—Tom and Kay
20
I can only imagine the reaction this would have if it was written by man. Sheesh, I am really tired of hearing my gender share everything.
34
Even at a young age my sex drive was higher than my boyfriends. I heard all the bravado from men, all the boosting about their desire, so when I was turned down, I felt deeply rejected, I assumed there must be something wrong with me. I was attractive, and hit on regularly, but loyal. I wanted sex with the one I loved, so I’d stay, try to “work” on it. The worst was when I found one boyfriend regularly masturbated to porn yet we hadn’t had sex in months. One man, my first love actually, loved sex as much as I. We broke up as young loves do, but reunited years later. The spark was the same, and even though we were both much older, our desire for frequent sex had not changed. It made me realize there wasn’t something “wrong” with me in my other relationships... it’s just people have different libidos. For me there is nothing more lonely than being in a sexless relationship. Finding someone who your compatible with may be one of the most beautiful aspects of love.
240
Jen, you got ‘Lotsa Likes’ here.
9
Looking back on 47 years of married life, now both of us are retired, I would attribute "slumps" to work stress. I am amazed that an ob/gyn physician, one who has children, appears to defy this theory! I would guess that the line "if you don't speak up about what you want, you can't expect the other person to know." This has become key now that, due to us being in our seventies (hot flashes, insomnia, sleep apnea, prostrate driven trips to the bathroom etc) we choose separate bedrooms. Now it is the afternoon nap which has become the go to for sex. That "in love" drug can occasionally hit as one realizes with gratitude, "we're still doing it".
56
Mom used to giggle when Dad would pat her on the bum as he passed by while she was cooking for their brood of 9 kids. Once, when Dad was cranky, Mom explained it being because he "Didn't get sex as much as he used to." They were in their EIGHTIES! Sometimes you're just well matched.
35
I have an unusual experience. I have a physical issue that does not allow me to experience sex in the normal way (i.e., with penetration). My husband has decided that his religion, according to the Bible, does not allow him to "spill the seed," even though we are in our seventies. So we haven't had any sex for years. I've pleaded with him over this, and yet, he won't budge. His priest is useless. He agrees with him. I have two choices: No sex, or painful sex. So basically, we've been married for almost 50 years but have only had sex for about 42 of those. It's not that he's incapable; his religion is paralyzing him. I can't talk to anyone about this. He won't budge, the religion won't budge. So I go about my daily business and keep busy. It's a huge gap in our relationship.
56
I'm not sure who I feel sorrier for— you or him. Good luck!
12
I think this article should also have mentioned that some people may be asexual. Asexuality is an orientation best defined as not feeling sexual attraction. It is not an illness, or abnormality, but a fundamental aspect of who a person is.
125
I guess everyone is different, or maybe it’s the water and lifestyle these days, lol.
My parents enjoyed passionate sex until shortly before they died in their eighties.
16
Mine too!
1
If you wife packs on 70-100 pounds and starts wearing spandex, shirts and gym shorts exclusivley, that could certainly be an issue in sexual desire. The same would be true if the man did the same also.
Maybe the author's husband has other women on the side.
35
You know - some men do have low libidos. Accept it.
25
Some men have men on the side, too. Secretly, of course. But I think most women would be shocked to know how many guys step out on their wives for sex with guys.
30
According to Wikipedia, approximately 1% of the population is "asexual," as am I. It took me until age 60 to admit this to myself, and it was only then that I found out about this relatively new category of "sexual orientation," after a failed marriage. I would have sex with my wife regularly, but she knew and I knew that my heart wasn't in it. I still seek out a relationship with a woman who might be asexual, or just tired of regular sex at my age, herself. Aside from sex itself, it seems to me that male and female energy simply tend to work well together in formulating a well balanced home. Who knows, perhaps The Doctor's husband was simply a "closet asexual?"
37
Now 72, I have had two marriages and a number of long-term relationships, with plenty of dating and short term relationships, as well as celibacy, in between. I began to find that around age 45-50, many men are no longer interested in or capable of sex. Many would not talk about this at all. Chemistry and attraction seemed to be there, but sex was non-existent, perfunctory or just plain bad. Many other women I know, married and unmarried, have similar experiences to recount. It's hard for me to belive that people find this surprising because it seems to be so pervasive.
PS Now in a committed relationship with a man 2 years younger than I am. We both enjoy sex and think it's as good as any we've ever had. I am no beauty, but we both pay attention to fitness and good mental and physical health.
116
It's a bit weird that the writer never does finish the story she starts. Did she and her partner work it out? I suspect not, but that's me reading between the lines. Shouldn't someone in the business of helping people understand and improve their own relationships be a bit more straightforward?
34
But she's an OB/GYN, not a relationship counselor.
20
"Eventually I decided that sympathy sex once or twice a year was far worse than no sex. I worried that no intervention would be sustainable, and the time not addressing the issue had simply taken its toll. We were terribly mismatched sexually, and it wasn’t something that he was interested in addressing."
No, Susan. They didn't "work it out." They split up. And her "experience led (her) to listen differently to women. . ."
Pretty clear, to me.
13
I totally agree! What a missed opportunity to add insight. She never revealed the reason or said how it was determined. This article had so much potential.
1
Aside from mismatched libidos and other interfering issues -- including unrevealed homosexuality and/or sexual relationships outside the marriage -- sex within marriage can be enormously restricted when a passive-aggressive partner uses it as a game piece or controlling mechanism. A less-enthusiastic partner often calls the shots on the frequency of sex; a passive-aggressive partner, whether female or male, can also do so by withholding sex as "punishment".
32
One thing I have not seen mentioned is the effect of antidepressants on a person's libido or ability to climax. Considering how many people now take antidepressants, this has to be a strong contributing factor. For both men and women.
47
Mind-numbing torture is being married to a passive-aggressive husband who withholds sex, knowing the pain and humiliation he is inflicting, while refusing all efforts to discuss or acknowledge the issue.
Then finding out all the while he was having a long-time affair and did not want to “cheat” on the other woman.
Cruel and twisted.
26
Absolutely.
5
for me, a sexless marriage feels like a lie. we put on our faces and play our roles but we don't share the physical - and emotional - intimacy that separates friends from lovers. I have deep anger that i can't shed for believing things would change, complete resentment at my husband for saying they would, isolation because I can't talk to girlfriends who love to gripe with pride about how much sex their husbands want from them. it would be so easy if it were for some of the trite reasons in the comments: that someone needed to wear a different shirt, put on more make-up, etc. the rules of attraction and reality of living with someone with complex issues is so much more difficult than that. we are seeing a therapist but how do i shed the years of "trying"? i can't bear to wear the mask any longer, but of course, for our kid.
115
You are not alone. Agree that the reasons for a situation I share are incredibly complex and layered in their raveling. If I tried to make a list of contributing factors it would quickly be at least 10 long and none of them superficial. It isn't about fault or blame, it's about fundamental nature of two individuals and them as a couple.
14
not that it helps any, but thank you for these words. "the physical and emotional intimacy that separates friends from lovers." deep anger, resentment, isolation. You are speaking my life.
29
Agree. A well turned phrase.
5
My golfing married friends in their 50's and 60's tell me they didn't know a part of marriage is never being able to have sex. Also, all guys are told when getting married that they aren't going to have sex much anymore. I don't believe this article because for most guys sex in marriage is a fallacy.
7
This is a silly comment given that the examples in the article are of men who don't want to have sex even after their partner inquires about it and that not all of the examples are of married couples.
30
Boris, when I was young and gorgeous, I had a boyfriend I had to beg for sex. When he did give in, he was selfish in bed and didn't care about my needs. He later married and had a child. No other boyfriend had this attitude. I'm a lot older now, and the sex in my marriage is more than fine. Believe the article. Life isn't about what men say at the golf club. Men lie. So do women.
29
BorisIII,
Sounds like locker room talk.
5
Keep doing what you women are doing, which is push the #MeToo movement which criminalizes male libido and -- as in the case of Aziz Ansari, for example, requires the man to be ready to change and adjust at a moment's notice, subject to the whims of the fickle female without regard or respect for what the man needs or is experiencing -- and men's problems in the sex department will only increase. Sorry to be blunt.
24
Eugene, if you truly believe that male libido = treat them all like meat puppets, then I am very sorry for you. Not nearly as sorry as for any woman you act out that mindset with, but sorry.
109
Wow. Your point of view is very dated. Sex should be a generous exchange between two willing partners. If one party isn't excited and engaged, why would you even want it? And I don't think it should be too much to ask that men (and women) be responsive to their partner's comfort level while having sex. It's not all about you, and if it is, I wonder why you bother with a partner at all! Leaving the libido question aside, all any woman is asking for is respect and consent in her sexual relationships.
22
Many defensive men writing here. We men need to educate ourselves about what’s going on with men & women. There is a fifty year old women’s movement. But no men’s movement. It’s up to you to educate yourself. Or loose out with your wives and daughters.
10
Thank you for a very interesting article within a delicate genre.
I am gay and came to the conclusion long ago that straights are under huge pressure to buy into the idea that sex is a lifelong entitlement. And if it's lacking, it's grounds for divorce.
Turns out, hot sex is often limited to the first few years. After that, with luck, both parties - gay or straight - are on the same page that it recedes or opens to other options.
But straights are under such social pressure to not even entertain the idea of other options - a lover, a prostitute, a massage - that their marriages become all or nothing.
I am married and have outgrown sex as something considered particularly important. Sharing a life and family and friends are enough. That works for me, and luckily also my husband. I understand that's not necessarily ideal for everyone.
Sexuality is a complicated journey. I think even tougher for straights over time because of expectations.
286
I'm glad it worked out for you. Nice to hear a success story.
13
Obviously the glaring issue here, which the author is chasing her tail trying to avoid, is that men lose sexual attraction for women and vice-versa. Sexuality is finite and we aren't fully designed for permanent monogamy.
50
But this article is about absolute non-interest in sex, not about non-interest to have sex with one specific person. While perhaps related, the article addresses a different issue that simply declining sexual attraction towards one's partner, as one's partner may still be sexually attracted to them even if they don't want to have sex with them.
22
For many decades most males have an amazing libido. There are plenty of lucky men that get their libido met. For others women say the high libido of the male is his problem. With limited success it eventually becomes less important. But wait, now it is the males fault? You are interested now that others find you less interesting? Unfortunately what goes around comes around. There is no joy on either side. Communication can bridge the gap. Males often get a bad rap for not being communicators. I am often shocked at how many women have trouble using their words with men.
26
I don't agree with Ms. Gunter's seeming view that relationship sex problems are mainly caused by "a mismatch in desire" or "libido ebb[ing] and flow[ing]."
No doubt sex drive differences are the main cause of problems in some unhappy relationships. But I imagine that - more often - sex problems are bound up with greater, relationship problems - and that - and this is my real point - cause and effect...how to put it?...trade positions...with each worsening the other: estranged intellectual/emotional relations worsen sex; estranged sex carries over into estranged relationship.
At least - to meet Ms. Gunter on her confiding, open and risky ground - that has been my unhappy experience.
(Kudos to Claire Milbrath's complex visual of baffled desire.)
16
30 years married. One kid. Love sex - er, uh, loved sex. Husband would rather hammer something in his workshop. The last time, at HIS want and my gleeful surprise, there was oral sex under a secluded canopy of Sequoias in the off season - definitely no one around. The situation quickly deflated. Biology or familiarity? Or both?
35
Instead of humble bragging (we rarely have sex but this one time was really crazy), you should talk to your husband,
"Remember that thing we did in the woods? I liked it. Let's do it again."
9
I'm single and have been involved at different times with two high sex drive married women who were in sexless marriages. One was separated and went back and stayed and the other never left. I felt sad for them and never felt I took advantage. Both made their situations work somehow, but I don't know if they pursued more extramarital affairs to do so. Perhaps as long as there's tenderness, respect and good sex no one should feel guilty about separating physical and emotional needs if that's what it takes to keep a sexless marriage together and if that's what they really want.
42
If only those two husbands had known then they too could have found lovers and not missed out on a good love life.
I am not a psychologist, I am not a doctor, and yet this is absolutely no surprise to me. I have heard and read many women with the same issue. By her own account, Gunter would have probably never paid attention to it if it hadn't happened to her:
"My experience led me to listen differently to women speaking about their sex lives with men, whether in my office or in my personal life. There are spaces between words that tell entire stories."
However, besides sleeping naked or trying to schedule sex nights, she provides little insight to find a solution to a problem that is probably much more widespread than society dares to accept.
It is hard for women to talk about this because the initial assumption is to blame the problem on them (they gained weight, they don't dress attractively, they spend to much time with the kids, they are absorbed by their work, and a long etc.), or they themselves think the problem lies within them and not within their male partners.
It is hard for men to speak about this because it counters the widely held misconception that "all men want sex all the time." So a man confessing to a low libido risks having his ego crushed.
This being said, the first step is acknowledging there is a problem, and communication between the couple. As long as one ducks the issue and plays the ostrich, no solution (other than looking for another partner, I guess) will be possible.
60
"There is also the possibility that one partner in a heterosexual relationship is gay."
How possible is that possibility? I'm not looking it up, but my gut, which is good enough for the president to rely on, says the possibility is so low, as to be statistically insignificant. I think the age of the beard-wife is mostly over. Lowering the number even more.
I think the author owes us some evidence if she's offering that up as a de facto possibility. She tells of challenges to the low testosterone hypothesis. Why not the gay man in a heterosexual marriage as an option?
16
It's definitely far more common in certain communities that oppose homosexuality and probably would be significant in those areas. Probably not a general problem, though.
10
As a gay man that takes frequent business trips I can tell you it’s very possible. Go on a gay meetup site or visit the gym when yr in a road warrior hotel and you will always find a handful of prospects, many of which are married.
19
My partner decided several years into our relationship that he was bi-sexual. After a lot of talking I agreed to stay in our relationship and he could explore that part of him. So I know many men are out there looking to connect and their wives never know. My partner said people would be astonished that I knew and that he wasn't 'cheating'. Go on Craigslist. It's an eye-opener.
Curiously it seemed that there are also a lot of transvestites/transexuals who seemed to come into our sphere and I did not like that at all. I felt very threatened by that.
My partner's illness(es) have diminished our sex and his looking outside of this relationship. I always feel, deep down, that he is gay. He swears not, swears he never would want to be in a 'love' relationship with a man and will not kiss a man. But he never seems to want me either, and that rejection has put an armor on me and now I think my own desire is completely gone.
I had a lover for a while that he knew about and encouraged but though it was a release after a while I just knew I had to really have deeper feelings for someone to make it all worthwhile.
What I miss most is cuddling after sex.
7
I am more than frustrated and at the end of my rope with my 10 year long zero sex relationship. It was great until two years in, and now it is so sadly platonic I feel constantly angry. Finding help for this problem isn't easy. I wish the author had made useful suggestions. Believe me, I've spoken up many a time.
112
Leave.
You're welcome.
12
There is hope. After a long marriage of less sex than I wanted (but it was oh-so-fantastic when we did engage), we entered a dark, years-long period of no sex. Anger, frustration, shame, resentment,depression, isolation - all these morphed into profound grief. I felt the loss of our intimacy, passion, and "couplehood" as if he had died, yet he was still right next to me. You cannot talk to friends about this, or your family, or your family doctor - they don't want to hear; they don't know what to tell you. But don't give up. And don't accept silence and stonewalling from your partner. This is 2018 - we can talk about sex with each other! See a legitimate sex therapist (as in an AASECT member), explore physical causes of lack of desire, try work-arounds ("If you don't think you can face intercourse, can we still have oral sex?"). None of this can happen if the partner won't talk about it - so if that continues, I would take that as the partner has checked out of the marriage, certainly checked out of caring about you. Bottom line: this decades-married couple came back from years of a sexless marriage to having sex again, good sex, and you will get over the resentment and loss, and feel loving again.
28
This sounds very familiar. My husband and I finally saw a marriage counselor. HIs conclusion: you two have so much going for you, a lot more than almost all the couples who come into my office. In fact, we loved and adored each other and had a beautiful, loving companionability for 32-years. And, yes, we did have sex, but not regularly. It tapered off into sexlessness.
Throughout my life, I have been taking antidepressants; this medication helps; it makes me functional and productive and I lead a good life. Unfortunately, I am living it now without my husband, who died in 2009. He did know, but I'm not sure if he understood, how antidepressants can tank one's libido. That said, we rarely talked honestly about this void in our marriage. My husband nursed a lot of anger and resentment toward me. I did suggest that we jump start our intimacy and try for at least twice weekly sex. With hindsight, I probably sounded perfunctory, unsympathetic, and did not acknowledge his feelings. There's nothing worse than not being fully heard.
When he died, I had the worst guilt imaginable. I felt as if I let us run out of time to have created a renaissance of intimacy in our marriage. I blamed myself entirely for our problem, until my therapist helped when he told me that this was a problem both of us shared. Okay, that was good to hear, but after reading all these posts, it brings our 'problem' back to mind and my sense of loss is terrible. Guilt--it's back.
12
I miss sex in my life and I love my incredible wife. The problem is her long bout with chronic fatigue syndrome. Its taken her life and a large part of mine. I really would not be satisfied with someone else as a substitute, and I miss the limited closeness as well as the intimacy we do seldom enjoy. Age and the inevitable ED has pretty much closed this factor in my life and I miss its passing. It looks like this is the hand I am delt.
53
Keep trying. As a CFS/ME, I know I feel incredible guilt over my illness along with lots of anger at my husband for how he has minimized it at times. He is angry and frustrated with me for being ill. Sex requires vulnerability and anger/resentment get in the way of trust. I feel like every time I find the courage to approach, some smart aleck remark shuts me back down again. Takes longer and longer to get out of my shell. But I keep trying. I love him and miss the closeness we used to share.
7
Chronic illness is very tough to deal with. I can't leave. But I'm angry that at 66, not that much more time to find someone else, this is, indeed the hand I've been dealt'. I don't acknowledge that anger much. It's suppressed but leaks out. Reading this article and comments is helping me realize just how much anger (nobody's fault, just the way it is) I carry. I tried to start a support group for partners of chronically ill partners but it didn't go anywhere. It's a good realization to know I need to find a way to let my disappointment/sadness/anger at the situation out.
18
I was married young and within a year found myself in a sexless marriage because I was completely uninterested in a man who gained weight, started drinking too much, and was an unimaginative lover (who ignored any requests ofrdiscussion). My greatest frustration in retrospect is in having no one to talk to about it. I later learned that several friends had similarly sexless marriages. I confided in them; they did not return that favor. Certainly we all have the right to privacy within our relationships, so what I feel is not anger. But I wonder how many of the ensuing years my husband and I both might have been spared if someone had given me some validation.
He married again. I have no idea of their sex life, of course. I never remarried, but had a good run of satisfying and adventurous monogamous relationships. I have lost interest again ... not in anyone in particular, but in the emotion and time that relationships require. All is well.
158
62 year old, 2 kids out of college, I am in good enough shape to play basketball, tennis, run a mile and swim a mile. I am not alone among a few confidants that there has been no sex for years. All normal looking couples, jobs, civic minded etc. It just ended and I actually have no idea if I would respond to an affair offer with no strings attached. I was a 25 year old virgin when married and even though fairly athletic and academic was somehow not in the game. Maybe that is the reason who knows and evidently nobody cares.
32
It's likely that sex has become painful for the wife because her hormone thresholds are so low she doesn't have enough lubrication--and intercourse can leave her feeling like her vj has been treated with sandpaper. This is a condition that can be remedied with the right help.
32
What is the "right help?" I've been through all sorts of "help," vis-a-vis lubrication and assistance with the thinning of the tissue. I also have a bladder sling, following a hysterectomy. No physician I've been to--although they've helped in one way or another--has been able to make intercourse tolerable, let alone pleasurable. I believe in non-intercourse sex, but my husband, who seems to be getting more and more religious as he ages (I think he's preparing himself to "meet his maker"), thinks it's against the Catholic Church to have non-penetrating sex because it's "not natural," and not in the Bible. Yikes. So it's my fault.
29
I'm so sorry, Zander. What's "not natural" is avoiding physical intimacy--in all its pleasurable variations and expression--for a straitjacketed idea of Catholic sexual correctness.
9
The narrative: The fault is invariably with the man.
The challenge to the narrative: The fault can be with the man, too, you know.
How does that work again?
13
Thank you for an insightful article. This is an issue for my marriage.
I also think a man's low self esteem (which can be different to clinical depression and stress) can be relevant. As I have put on a little weight and gotten older I do not feel as attractive and I think this has affected my self-esteem and libido.
I think relationship problems are important as you state. My partn'er's anxiety from childhood has worsened as we have become parents and busier in our lives. Her anxiety disorder has affected our relationship and this includes the physical relationship. Lots of cuddles, hugs and warmth but no more. Both of us are seeing therapists now so let's see what happens...
Thank you for introducing a topic which I often see in my job as a physician and in my own life.
51
Was in a relationship for 10 years, loved and enjoyed each other's company, and had zero sex. Zero. Any attempt to discuss it was met with emotional withdrawal & irritability. No ED problems. Thought of every possible solution, addressing it, not addressing it, trying to not talk but do, sexy clothes, and on and on. Nothing worked, and eventually I quit and left. Took a while to realize it was about him, not me, as subsequent relationships were just fine. And yes, I AM a clinical psychologist.
162
I think there's another possibility that Dr. Gunter's doesn't address: a partner may be conflicted because he's a closeted gay man. I grew up in a conservative religious culture that put intense pressure on young people to marry and knew guys who fulfilled the traditional dating-marriage role and later came out. I've had adult friends who found out that their dads were gay; but only after the parents divorced or the father died. I believe some men living hetero lives publicly--indulge in gay sex on the side AND it's much more common than people know. When I was single, I learned to ask the guy I was dating if he had had that kind of sex. It was an important thing to know in general and later as part of the safe sex/screening conversations I required -- if intimacy was to develop.
52
Mine wasn't gay either. Not sure if he was just asexual or afraid of physical intimacy, emotional intimacy was just fine. BTW, became a psychologist AFTER that relationship, not during.
10
Why is the loss of desire always seen as the fault or the pathology of the one losing desire. Perhaps the partner is just no longer desirable. Why would I want to take drugs or treatment to arouse desire for someone who just doesn’t turn me on any more.
99
Why would someone (you?) remain in a relationship with someone they found is “just no longer desirable”? I don’ think this article is about that...It’s about mismatched libidos, not people in a relationship, at least one of whom can’t stand the thought of physical intimacy with the other, but who would jump at the chance to have sex with someone else they found “desirable”. And FYI, “drugs or treatment” do not arouse desire; they assist in physical arousal in response to desire. No amount of “drugs or treatment” will result in arousal in the absence of desire.
25
I'm guessing, in many cases (where the man earns beaucoup bucks), it's because of the lifestyle to which they've become accustomed.
9
I think it's awesome you have friends with whom you can talk about your and their sex life!
31
Sex meant a whole lot to me, and I enjoyed a lot of it for decades, in serial monogamous relationships. In my current relationship, it lasted around two years then I just lost interest. More and more I came to feel uninterested in my partner sexually, because I no longer found her sexually attractive. For me, physical attraction is largely the cause of my feeling sexy and engaging sexually with my partner. Yet, she continued to dress plainly, as if she was wearing clothes from the Goodwill. I asked her to dress more femininely, more attractively to me. She responded that she enjoyed dressing in T-shirts and jeans and working in the yard etc. My sexual response just plummeted. I enjoy and respect her and resist going outside of our relationship, among other reasons because I know that would hurt her if she found out, which I imagine would be inevitable. I've discussed this both with my doctor and a therapist. They both acknowledge that many men find physical appearance to be strongly correlated with sexual attraction, as it is for me, but they don't really provide any relief.
In responding to the recent MeToo movement, I wanted to say, "Hey, women, you may be wired such that a cozy, close, emotional connection is important to you for sex, yet we men are wired such that a woman's physical appearance is important to us for sex. For me, at least, baggy T-shirts or sweatshirts, sloppy workpants, and old sneakers just don't do it.
81
I find this comment a bit shocking. You fail to mention if this woman always dressed like she has or if she changed her "dressing habits" from the time you first met her. Why would clothes, and not her own self, make or break her attractiveness? Usually, men complain about women gaining weight, but the way she dresses? After all, sex is usually (and best) performed naked. Have you tried offering a set of nice lingerie? This feels somewhat like blaming the victim. If there are no children involved, you would probable do yourself -and her- a favor by telling the truth. Most women do not want a man by their side for pity. And physical appearance, sex and hygiene habits are also important for most women!
69
Don't kid yourself, women respond to physical attractiveness too.
108
Not denying your reality but I couldn't care less about clothes or makeup, although I know men who do. I'm primarily interested in the woman beyond the clothes and makeup. I see those things as just rules imposed by society.
104
If it wasn't for the urge or libido, the thought of sex could be quite revolting. Exposure to questionable hygiene and bodily fluids. The vulnerability of nakedness. Disease. But nature's solution does not care as long as genes procreate.
36
So Alan, you don't think women are uhm... sort of sexy and exotic..
14
The big love in my life came the day I turned 60. His erections were already a rare event, but he was a fabulous and creative lover. And for over five years it was like being a teenager again for both of us. I was so fulfilled and so happy I had a matching mate. And then suddenly my partner evaporated. I felt the joy and laughter seep away at the same time. I have shared how much I miss that part of our life and being over 70, I was hoping my own libido would relax, but I miss the physical contact so much.
134
I don't understand what you mean by saying your partner "evaporated." Would you mind explaining in a little detail? Was there a certain event that brought this on?
18
A beautiful article Dr Gunter, you would put many psychiatrists to shame. My only quibble is about your hypothesis that sex during a hateful divorce is rare. People's private behavior does not make public sense, partly because we are so secretive about it.
Your comparison between men's vanity about their desire and women's vanity about their weight was perfect. Your recollection of your friends' denials was excruciating. especially since they were as likely lying, as not.
David Bresch MD
Hamilton, NJ
30
Sex is an expression trust and intimacy. When those are lacking, sex becomes an empty and uncomfortable experience. Gender has nothing to do with it. The stereotype of men wanting to have sex purely for physical gratification, with or without trust and intimacy, is as outdated as many other false gender-based stereotypes.
If this is a "surprise" to you, that might reflect something about your views of men. Men are complete, emotional, feeling human beings. A man not feeling sexual is no different than a woman not feeling sexual. I think we would hesitate to say there is something "wrong" with a woman whose sexual interest has waned. Please give the same consideration to men.
204
No one does more to spread the idea that men want sex all the time than men themselves. So I'm less than sympathetic.
122
I wish that were true woodyrd but the real world thinks otherwise. Virtually all the pornography and prostitution is there to address mens desires. As a man I only want sex with someone I care about and in fact adore but I know that's not every man.
43
Nor every woman ...
3
I was in a marriage that was otherwise happy but absolutely did not meet my needs sexually. It was the 10 times a year type.No matter what route we took, it did not solve the problem. I knew my husband loved me and I loved him, but this tainted the entire 50+ year relationship. It was a choice of breaking up the marriage or finding a lover and I chose the latter. I was in an extra relationship for 30 years. Then my lover’s wife died and he quickly found a girlfriend and did not need me anymore. Then my husband died but my former lover was content with his new situation. So I am now alone and mourning 2 relationships. I see my former lover and his girlfriend, not intentionally of course. It breaks my heart, but I don’t see what else I could have done other than divorce a lovely man.
292
I commend your honesty and insight. I hope you find a new love
142
It is stunning to see what happens to people as they age; we have so much in common. We spend our lives gathering and then surrendering. It is all transient. The solutions are different for everyone. I am 65 years old, and have been through a lot in forty years of marriage. I have found Buddhism and friendship, a tolerant love for my husband, and staying physically active to be the best healers. Yes, we can outlive traditional marriage, but we can find other pathways to joy. This has been such an interesting thread. Thank you to all who have written.
P.S. I lied about my age (:
33
Thank you for your honest story. You are not alone.
15
What do you do when it is ED? I also have metastatic prostate cancer and am not allowed to get an testosterone injection although my testosterone level is low.
25
There is much more to sex than penetration.
124
I agree with Dr Gunter. The idea that "all men want sex all the time" is nonsense.
Both women and men are subject to ever changing libidos.
I believe that women are certainly as sexually orientated as men, in fact I would say that women's libido is probably stronger.
Maintaining a pleasurable and active sexual relationship with a long term partner is tricky and there seems to be no simple solution. However, I think that talking is a good start!
68
I see sex as one pearl on a necklace of intimacy ... if there are few other pearls, and especially no silver chain to hold them together, sexless happens without much of a barrier.
59
I think I must have been born highly sexed, or at least was highly sexed from a time long before I actually understood what it was. As I grew older, shy and bookish, I began to feel very vulnerable because of this, and suffered much from sexual miscues. Eventually, I grew incapable of interest in women who did not make their own interest plain enough not to mistake, and to them I could not say "no." Unlike Casanova, mere willingness would not suffice, even if generous or well intentioned. Only true lust would do. Needless to say, I have been a failure at any relationship, including marriage, where sex was regarded as a given or a duty by either party. I can live a domestic life entirely without sex happily enough, but faithfulness in such a relationship is a bridge too far.
20
Sensible article. Yes not all men are interested in the sexual act, and the cultural cues suggest to men this is a shameful secret. Of course there are things that a man might do for his wide anyway, though it would be out of a sense of duty, not booty. Surprise & humorous play might be more an aphrodisiac than "scheduling sex." Communication is indeed key-- cultural expectations needs to be navigated. There may be multiple cultural frames that need examining. Maybe there needs to be agreement to allow selective sexual outlets outside marriage. Love & intercourse are not necessarily linked, despite all the stories we grow up absorbing.
51