I find this analysis to be rather confused. I highly doubt that the people who voted for Five Star or for the League are those who have the greatest distrust of Donald Trump. What Bruni fails to even mention in this essay is that Steve Bannon acted as an adviser of the League before heading to France to give a speech before the racist and Antisemitic National Front in France. There he said that being called a racist, xenophobe, and a nativist was a "badge of honor" . The truth is much worse then Bruni suggests. The League is quite simply an aggressive Fascist party and Italians have embraced them because fears of refugees nave resulted in an embrace of Trumpism and a turn toward Russia that follows our own submission to the values of that state. The victory of these forces in Western Europe brings us back to the 1930's in it's attack on democratic values. When the League or the 5 Star movement begins its promised expulsion of 600,000 people we will have the massacre that will mark the end of a liberal order in Italy. I just wonder if it will be covered in the American media or would that disrupt tourists rosy view of the state committing that atrocity.
13
The world should be wary of us. Arrogance doesn't get anyone anywhere. I am thrilled countries have lost respect for us. Who are we to walk around with our chests out? I commend Italy for their foresight. We are a shell of what America should be.
25
"And when they look toward Trump, what do they see? An American president who praises and sometimes seems intent on emulating the autocrats of the world, starting with Putin."
----
Same constant lying, same authoritarian tendencies even same allegiance to Russia. Putin is what Trump would be if he had a fully functioning brain.
14
There's been more than a few opinion pieces about how the Europeans have given up on the USA. And to be sure, it's unfortunate that our present administration is so hostile toward a wonderful continent with whom we share so much history and values.
But as someone with European family who spends considerable time across the pond, I'll let you in on a little secret: By and large, most Europeans don't care.
Like people everywhere else, they're busy living their lives to pay much attention to Trump or Putin or whoever. Moreover, the American culture that so many right-wing blowhards love to rail against continues to engender curiosity, familiarity and goodwill toward America. It will outlast the buffoons presently in the White House.
15
Mine is yet another unscientific opinion, but I believe the thing Italians and others have always loved about America is the aspirational ideal it stood for: That anyone, starting from nothing, could come here and succeed through his or her own hard work. And that Americans, by and large, were a welcoming, kind and generous people.
Trump and his supporters have thrown all of that out the window.
He got his start through his rich daddy, which is no sin, but acts like he did everything himself. Many of his so-called great business deals have ended in loan defaults, closures and bankruptcies, which calls into question what it really means to be a "success".
He is rude, boorish, selfish, disloyal (ask the wives he's cheated on) and a narcissist. He neither listens nor cares what anyone else says or thinks.
He dislikes immigrants (unless they work for his hotels and resorts) and especially non-white immigrants. Through word and deed, he has made clear he does not want them here.
His "America First" is emblematic of how Trump has lived his own life--"Trump First". No one else matters.
He lies often and never apologizes when he is wrong. His word and promises are worthless.
And his supporters, including some of the most pious and bible-thumping among us, knowing all of this, support him unquestioningly--and utterly hypocritically.
A president is a representative of America's people and a reflection of who we are. Would you see THIS America as any kind of ideal?
19
Do Italians need an outside leader? I understood correctly - they gravitate towards Putin, because Trump "a little bit crazy"?)))
2
I too believe that We and the rest of NATO partners forced Putin to act on the Crimea. We should never have interfered with the Russian motive to retain the former Soviet Republic bordering the NATO countries as a bufffer to protect them. Imagine a Ukraine as a member. Of NATO and controlling the Russian Black Sea naval base in Crimea. Ridiculous on its face.
This is an article made up of a silly idea. The Italians did consider Communism as an option right after WWII but there is no way that they have seen enough to forget that. Plain old corruption has been their problem never perhaps militant voters will correct it somewhat.
8
I do maintain that America's campaign finance policy is a root of evil. The biggest donors are the biggest winners. Perforce most Americans have no representation in Washington. Eventually their disenchantment comes to dominate all. Soon a showman conman bullshits his way into the Whitehouse. Congresspersons are so beholden to the donor class that Congress is viewed with near universal contempt. The system is so broken that some people see the answer in destroying it entirely. The donor and his money are a greater threat to America than Putin or ISIS. Crafting a constitutional amendment to eliminate the donor and use another finance mechanism and then getting enough signatures to make it law, running an end around the donor, the congress, the POTUS, the SCOTUS is our only hope. God help us, none of our elected officials will.
14
The Italians turned to Putin because there is no leader currently in place in the US. Every western countries will confirm that. As far as the whole world is concerned the US is simply gone. It seems that the 45th has "infected" the US and rendered it impotent on the international scene. In fact we can safely say that the glorious United States of America are no more. A more appropriate name would be the Disunited States of America. All that courtesy of Donald Trump.
11
Italians have voted the way they voted for many reasons that sit firmly on our side of the pond. It is preposterous to say that they voted - even in part - "because" of Trump. We are better (and worse) than that.
15
After having re-read Mr. Bruni's article with more attention and all the comments up to 102, I wonder if the object discussed is not Italy but once again Mr. Trump. Be careful, because you are confusing the symptom of a disease with its cause, just as those of the left here in Italy with Mr Berlusconi for more than twenty years and then discovering that they are being rejected by the people. Best regards from Padua EU
5
Frankly, as an Italian, I don't think that we have replaced the US with Russia. It is simply that the vast majority of us are disgusted by Trump. Most still find incomprehensible how the US could vote for him. So our esteem for the US practically vanished and every Trump's move makes the situation worse. But Russia has not replaced the US. I do not agree that Putin is the most popular foreign leader. In fact, no foreign leader, Pope Francis excluded, has any significant popularity in Italy. About the sanctions against Russia, essentially imposed by the US, they are as much against the Italian economy as against Russia. Those sanctions do not seem to have modified Russian foreign policy while they have greatly damaged Italian exports. That's why many Italians oppose them, not out of a special affection for Putin.
18
This isn’t exactly new. Germany opened up a nat gas pipeline with Russia that they had been negotiating for years. The EU loves them some Putin.
2
Europeans can see us better than we see ourselves and intelligent ones can see that our destructiveness is much more than Trump. It was our neocon State Department under H Clinton and Obama that set off the tragedy in Syria that led to millions of refugees descending on their shores.
It has nothing to do with personalities. Geography makes Russia a natural ally and trading partner, and it is much more respectful of European interests.
5
A decade and a half ago, George W. Bush was POTUS and the US was engaged in two quasi-imperialist wars, in Iraq and Afghanistan. Is Bruni saying that the Italians loved the US because of these wars or in spite of them?
The real point of the article, however, is that the ground can be raked to support the claim that Putin is more popular than T-Rump. [Ask Clinton diehards the same question. Lol.]
The real issue is evaded by Bruni: the effects of the large number of immigrants from Africa and Asia that Italy has been forced to accept by the EU, but without any support from the EU. Russia might be less threatening to many Italians than the latest "Carthaginian" invasion - another Punic War.
In addition, Italy has been economically stagnant since the US-led Great Recession, a decade of low growth, high unemployment, especially for youth, and pessimistic expectations. The neoliberal economic policies promoted by Germany and accepted by the undemocratic EU Commission, together with the growing discontent on the part of the hoi polloi concerning the growing distance between the establishment and the greater number of Italians, is what might be more accurately described as the root cause of Italian disenchantment with the EU, the US and the "West."
10
The distancing behavior from Trump to European countries is the worst thing that could happen to both Europe and America.
Americans need Europe to remind them of how humanitarian government programs are still needed to help those who will always experience desperation in life.
Europe needs America to continue with mentoring in successful capitalism and umbrella like military support for the constant fear that eminates from Putins existence.
Trumps inexperience and impulsive decision making is the bane of these two worlds across the Atlantic!
4
To interpret the vote in Italy as a matter of attraction to Putin and a rejection of America suggests that the author is more concerned with promoting the hysterical anti-Russian craze being promoted by our media. It would have been useful for readers to benefit from some insight into the social and political factors that are reshaping voters' views and Italian party alignments. These are what will affect Italy's policies toward the EU and its future. This piece is a disappointment.
8
Italy was never a reliable partner or ally to anyone. That's a fact you can trace back thousands of years.
2
Maybe a noble, virtuous nation exists somewhere on earth that's a proper role model, an exemplar, but I don't who it is. Some Scandinavian country perhaps? Iceland? Switzerland? Luxembourg? Disneyland?
I can see why America has fewer and fewer fans. We've not only lost our mojo, we never really had much, if you looked closely at the whole picture; for example, as we fought Nazism in Europe, we just as vigorously maintained racism and sexism on Main Street, USA.
We're better, I think, than Russia and China and probably England, in this clear-sighted American's view, but we nonetheless have more than a baker's dozen -- don't we? -- of serious shortcomings. (For more in-depth information regarding this list, see tomorrow's NYTimes, which, appropriately, keeps a running tally.)
3
The Atlantic had an interesting article about Putin. It says he looks with alarm at US policies on regime change. When US viewed itself as the sole super power left on the field, Putin thinks it engineered the election of incompetent Yeltsin. The US then went on to Iraq, after Putin offered a hand in Afghanistan (which was really harboring the outlaw groups behind the terrorist attack of 9/11). Libya followed under the Obama-Clinton regime. Putin believes US was behind the coup in the Ukraine, messing around in Russia's backyard. Who is responsible for the mess of Syrian and Middle Eastern immigrants? When it comes to Trump vs. Putin, what fool would bet on Trump? His antics in Europe, from pushing aside a person at a photo op to his crazy handshakes to his failure to acknowledge his wife with an umbrella ... it leaves Europeans gaping. Putin backed a buffoon for US President, knowing it could only increase his influence. And Putin still backs polar opposites in elections, and sows discord ... it's no accident that Five Star and Far Right are picking up seats. They have the best chance to go at each other in destructive fashion, and creating a dysfunctional do-nothing government.
2
Bruni's piece today is just more hand wringing in the NYT's, as well as much of the main stream press and media, on the decline of America and, by default it seems, democracy under Trump. This purported decline we are then led to believe is leading to the rise of autocracy, nay even fascism, under populist parties in Europe as well as the ascendent power of Putin in Russia and Xi in China.
I'm not buying any of it.
Nationalism is on the rise as a visceral reaction to the failed policies of the global elitist. These policies must be tempered for the good of all the West.
As to Russia, it is no more than a kleptocracy. Economically it has nothing to offer the world other than the corrupt crony socialism of Putin and his stooge. Philosophically Russia has been bankrupt since before the fall of communism. The real threat of Russia is state sponsored, organized cyber-crimes. This is compounded by an oppressed, sullen yet inert populace.
As to China - the Middle Kingdom has a history of on-again, off-again empire status, often with internal strife. Xi's reign will end in failure with the next economic downturn. Then other factions in the communist party will rise up against him, the country probably descending into internal strife. Attempts to deflect via a war against the West, America specifically, will end in failure. Only then, will a model of "democracy" like Singapore or Taiwan take hold on the mainland.
Lets all move on to make America great again!
6
And Germany might soon follow suit. Bullying people with tarifs and threats to cooperate with sanctions that are against their own interest is just not going to fly in the long run. Russia is Europe natural geographic and historical partner and Putin has nothing to do with that in the first place.
Ideologically, countries don’t like to be maligned as socialists or populists when all their trying to do is looking out for regular working folks instead of only the 1% as happens around here. So no, shame’s on you America..don’t blame Europe for looking the other way, but wake up and get your act together!
6
populism, right or left, rises in electoral democracies when the people's expectations of accountability to them and attention to their needs are unmet. neither russian bots or bannon clones needed. it is not an individual phenomenon but a collective one.
9
Italy's 65 governments since 1946 are a joke and the new one is likely to be the same. Italian politics have always been corrupt and chaotic -- something like the present White House.
5
Italy has dumped America for Russia. We can say the same about the Trump administration and the GOP leadership.
13
Very good pasta and prosciutto jokes but I am not sure Mr Bruni believes that Italy is seduced by Putin. In common with so much of the commentary in the NYT, he seems reluctant to address the real issue. This is that Italian voters do not think it ok that their country is being invaded by immigration from Africa which is producing social and cultural consequences to which previous ruling elites have seemed indifferent. For fear of appearing politically incorrect, commentary in this paper seems incapable of understanding this, and too often reverts to the trope that all opposition to this is racist, or extreme right wing, when it really is nothing of the kind.
14
If memory serves me the Italians also had their infatuation with Russian Communist. 40-50 years ago.
1
The old, jaded arguments that say "we are better than this" are just attempts at feel goodism and do not stand the test of time.
4
"Can they look to Moscow for guidance and inspiration without ending up under that country’s thumb?"
More immediately, can they look to their own nationalist autocratic leaders and expect anything different?
Can we?
Italy had been a politically schizophrenic mess since WWII ended. If they want to alienate themselves from the rest of western society and seek an abusive relationship with Russia for awhile, then let them.
2
Not so fast. This won't last!
1
This is not story about Russia and/or Putin.
It is story about anti globalisation, which become very popular in Europe and it seems that is also popular in UK/US.
People see, that globalisation doen't bring them anything, but just additinal risks and poverty.
Russia is seen as prototype of national state that Italian use to have and use to like.
Probably first will be Euro to get rid off, then maybe also NATO if won't NATO calm down its expanisionistic aproach. Nobody in Europe joined to NATO to go to the border of Russian or middle east "world" and to fight there. Just saying.
7
Sure makes Putin’s look like the smartest guy on the planet.
Scary stuff...and things are going his way faster than global climate change.
I too traveled from the Amalfi Coast all the way around to Venice. That was twenty years ago. The passion was gone then and it is probably closer to death now. The Law of Conservation of Energy. All the energy now is in America. Enjoy. Then move to Africa.
This looks like a fake generalization. The Italians like Russia now that we elected Trump. There is no way to know who the "Italians" collectively like or dislike. I am sure it would be something like any other country, percentages for and against all leaders of the world. I am sure if you took a poll of NYT readers you will find more pro Putin and anti Trump.
2
Great choice by smart people. Good for the Italians.
3
"the majority opinion (Italian) is that trump is crazy." Hey, the majority of Americans are with you on that!
9
Italians are embarrassed, FOR us. They've suffered thru their own buffoonish clown as supreme leader, they know the drill. Tomorrow is another day, and November is the beginning of the end. This Opera Buffa will end, hopefully before morphing into tragedy. Buona Fortuna.
9
You forget to mention that Italy was invaded by the US army in 1945 and is still occupied by it. Many US military bases with nuclear arms dot the national landscape and US corporations had a free hand as a consequence. Is that the freedom you are talking about????
9
"if you were asking all Italians today who is the most popular foreign leader in all of Italy, Putin would win.”
Well you can ask this question anywhere in the world. Putin will always win.
2
Unlike Bruni, many Itallians who are sympathetic to Russia might realize that American incursions to the East understandably alarm Russia.
The border between Russian power and American power used to be situated in Germany: East Germany and everthing to the East was in the Russian sphere, and West Germany and everything to the West was in the American sphere of influence.
That boundary has shifted many hundreds of miles to the East: East Germany, Poland, the Baltic nations and many other nations that were once part of the Warsaw pact, or the alliance of the Soviet union and its satellite states, are now part of Nato.
Nato has gained hundreds of miles of territory. Russia has every justification for being alarmed about that. She lost 20 million people in World War Two in part because the western allies condoned Hitler's lunge to the East, approving of his seizure of the Sudetenland, which of course led to Germany's takeover of Bohemia-Moravia, and then Memel and then the stukas and the devastation and death of World War Two.
And please, Americans, once and for all learn something about Ukraine: It had been controlled by Russia since the time of Catherine the Great, or over two hundred years ago. The eastern Ukraine is primarily Eastern Orthodox and is closer to Russia than the Western Ukraine, which is predominantly Catholic. And Western Ukrainian politicos, which the US supports, often have antecedents who were allied with Nazi Germany.
11
Italians would like to love the USA but it can be hard. A lot of things have gone haywire since the glory days of liberating Italy from fascism.
Consider:
Last week a Rome judge asked the CIA for information about the legality of a USA drone strike in Pakistan in 2015 that killed Giovanni Lo Porto, an Italian aid worker. Doubts exist the CIA will cooperate.
After shooting to death Italian Secret Service agent Nicolas Calipari in 2005 as he was heading by car towards an American checkpoint in Bagdad to free an Italian hostage, New York State National Guardsman Mario Lozano was cleared of wrongdoing charges by a US military court.
Twenty two CIA operatives have never been punished after violating Italian sovereignty and kidnapping Abu Omar, an Egyptian cleric, on the streets of Milan in 2003.
An American Marine pilot was found not guilty of involuntary manslaughter and negligent homicide after his joyriding antics resulted in severing a ski lift cable in the Italian Alps, causing 20 people to fall to their deaths in 1998.
Earning respect means being big enough to accept responsibility for your mistakes. In this regard, the USA disappoints Italians regularly.
15
Really? I guess NATO is no longer allowed to operate in that country, right?
1
Russia delivered for Trump in 2016, now Trump is fulfilling the debt and fulfilling for Russia. Doing nothing, saying nothing, neutering U.S. world presence.....Putin could ask for no more. How much is Trump in the hole with the oligarchs and their leader? Will treason be recognized?
4
At least, the Italians are right about Trump.
3
~"Italy has Dumped America. For Russia"~
The House and Senate Republicans have dumped America for Russia... and a Russian bought President.
4
Roll the dice and pick your poison - Trump or Putin. Not much difference in my opinion.
3
So you mean that there is a real danger that a EU with 450 million inhabitants will end under the tumb of Russia with 140 million people?
3
‘Fabulous Frank,’ as an expat living in Italy, soon to have dual citizenship and “Tet” - Vet, I have learned from the Italians whose motto is “To live in spite of their government.”
It’s all theatre. “Show me the money.”
3
Russia, shmussia - Italians, like Americans, took advantage of the opportunity to throw out the people who brought them only insecurity and poverty while looking down their noses at them. Out with the ins and in with the outs. The deplorables have their revenge at least for the moment.
4
Well thank the good/ Lord that President Trump spins his perpetually bilious web wearing a shirt. Vladimir Putin should consider following suit while ditching his white stallion.
According to Giancarlo Loquenzi “Even those Italians who have always been pro-America are anti-Trump.”
As a Canadian-born US citizen who continues to spend several months a year in the land where my roots remain strong, the same can be said of "even those Canadians."
1
This is a terrible article, unworthy of somebody who calls himself a journalist. Please, Mr. Bruni, do your homework seriously before writing. I'm an Italian working in the United States, and I read the Italian press regularly. Nobody in Italy thinks that the recent electoral results, with the victory of the Movimento 5Stelle and the growth of the Lega, have anything to do with Putin and Russia. This is a ludicrous idea. The strong results of these two parties have to do with very serious and important political issues:
a) growing anti-Euro and anti-EU feelings. The Italian economy has been devastated by the Euro and by the neo-liberal economic policies dictated by Brussels;
b) growing anti mass migration feelings. In the last three years, over 600,000 people (mostly young men) have been allowed to come to Italy, a country with 40% youth unemployment rate. With disastrous results.
The Italian vote was against neo-liberal EU policies, which include tolerance of mass migration. The Italian people have voted against those policies. You can call the vote "populist", if you like, but to dismiss it as something ridiculous due to Putin's influence is just stupid.
This is not an article that informs the NYT readers about Italian politics. It simply reveals the shallowness and ignorance of the author.
19
I'm sorry, but this piece is incoherent. Why should Italians turn away from Trump and toward Putin when they can have both for the cheaper price of one? Anti-immigrant, Anti-NATO, anti-EU, and rampant with crony corruption. Trump may be an inferior Putin, but look at Berlusconi, surely a clown of truly Trumpian proportion once cut perfectly to Italian taste.
3
Well, the USA have dumped the USA for Russia, so why wouldn't the Italians?
Mussolini made the trains run on time so they say -- all the way to Berlin and criminal alliance with Nazi Germany.
Apparently Italians, having forgotten their sordid and sorry history from 1923 to 1944, their complete embarrassment in military adventurism and their degraded decent into barbarity in those years. Apparently they would again prefer on time trains to self-respect much less respect of history or of showing some minimum ability to govern themselves with even an ounce of common sense.
We liberated them, gave them back a nation and this is the thanks we and democracy get? They vote again for equivalents of Mussolini and all the stupidity and criminality of their Fascisti past?
Never mind Trump, Italy has been digging itself this pit of self-pity and suicidal political stupidity ever since June 1944 when our army liberated Rome. Something like 70 governments in just over 70 years says it all.
Italian cooking is wonderful. But one thing the Italians really foul up is cooking a decent, sensible and stable government. Italy's public governance and politics are indigestible.
2
Too bad Italy is in disarray, much of it of their own fault, but having an awful example in the arrogant bully in the White House, the so called "Ugly American" (arrogant, ignorant and stupid), may be a disincentive to follow a nation (the U.S.) that is supposed to lead by example, and following the rule of law, and caring for human rights, and justice...as opposed to a thug that is supportive of despots 'a la Putin'. Are we, in these United States, too entitled and too loud for comfort, too greedy for dominance that we forgot that real strength implies leading with humility and prudence? Perhaps we do not deserve the respect we crave, especially when we have a big-mouth bully repeating at nauseum how great we are and with the 'inalienable' right for dominance in the world. For that, we lost our credibility, to our shame.
1
I can't stand to read this article and I can't stand to watch America disintegrate under Trump. I am so ashamed of my country (USA).
17
I can understand the Italians feelings towards the U.S. Trump has proven to be a Traitor to what was good about the U.S., our pledge of support to our Allies in Europe and around the world. He has abandoned our allies, and Italy would be one of those allies. Trump has torn up, in a figurative sense, all that was agreed upon by us and Europe. No more humanitarian help. A disregard for other cultures, races, genders and climate problems.
Trump too supports Putin, which is in affront to many in countries in Europe.
So Italy follows Trump's lead in that respect. I am sure that Trump and Berlusconi will become great friends, now that they have their admiration for Putin to share. This is not the only thing that Trump and Berlusconi have in common. They share the same values, or lack thereof.
The Italians, just like 60 million of Americans, were fed up with business as usual in their political world and so they voted accordingly. It is just too bad that they voted in a Autocrat, as we did (or should I say the Electoral College).
So if Italy's government no longer trusts the United States, we can all thank Trump for that. Trump does not care about the American citizen, unless of course they can join Mar-A-Lago, so why should he care what the Italians think of us.
8
Another confused column by a liberal who simply does not comprehend what the popular discontent is about. It always has to be something about Russia or Trump. It could not possibly be that the leftist, globalist, open-border, pro-islamization European elite cartel led by Merkel actually is pursuing terribly wrong and disastrous policies and the people in Europe are simply right to look for alternatives, any alternatives, that will rescue them from those who are out to destroy the Europe of sovereign nations that most Europeans actually want to keep and replace it with a super state without identities but with open borders? The plan for a European Union that replaces the nation states has never had majority support of any European people - never, anywhere - yet the political elites keep pursuing this goal relentlessly, actively working against the will of the voters for decades.
Few Europeans actually like Putin or Russia, it's just that from afar, for many Putin looks not so bad when what you've got at home is what they got. And when your country is subjugated by a Germany still ruled by Merkel after all her abysmal failures and where still more than 70% of the people voted for Merkel or one of the other parties that are in lock-step with her, or even worse, on mass immigration - which means all the parties except AfD and the free democrats.
8
Many if not most western cultures are unhappy and casting about for someone or something better to lead their country.
America's dissolutionment led to Trump. England's led to Brexit. Russia still looks to Putin. Italy went to the Five Star Party.
All right and left is not the same between countries. Frances rightest Le Pen supports social welfare programs and America's rightest and authoritarian Trump is planning to take away help for the destitute.
What does all this mean? More than anything else, it means that most of the world is in disarray and is far from finding their ideal form of government!
7
The first thing I'd like to say is that about fifty years ago, Italy was the European country with the largest number of communists, preceded just by Russia. I'm saying this just to remind that Russia (USSR in the past) has always had an influence on Italian politics. Nonetheless, especially thanks to the Marshall Plan, USA has always been considered as an ally, and that's the reason why we have "hosted" American military bases for so long.
During Obama's presidential term, Italian people were happy, because they thought that that president embodied the American values that we all know and share. But after Trump won things have slightly changed, because it's win has awaken our populist and nationalist party, such as Five Star Movement and League, parties which are anti-establishment and against Italian liberals, like for example the Democratic Party. Moreover, other important events such as Brexit, Hungarian and Austrian referendums, which have seen the victories of two anti-liberal parties, and the rise of Russia in the global political scene have worsened the situation, helping Italians, who were tired of the current political establishment, to vote parties who have radical ideologies.
As an 18-year-old boy who live in such an controversial country, I think that we must continue to follow and share the values that have made your country great in the last two centuries.
Except guns. I'm really sorry, but I think that guns can't have any space in our global society.
6
"They don't think America is as reliable as it once was". Perhaps because the leaders of our country can only be relied upon to do everything they can to line their own pockets at the expense of everyone else?
12
The fact that Donald Trump is the duly elected president of the United States of America has got more than just Italians wondering about whether they can trust the US or not. As a Canadian who came to adulthood during the Vietnam War, my distrust of a country that would elect your current president is at an all time high. If you'll do this, what wouldn't you do? It has nothing to do with left-right.
8
Well let them cozy up to Russia. Let’s kick them out of NATO. Italy contributes only 1% of its GDP to military when the alliance calls for a minimum of 2%. America has to spend 3.5% to make up for these leeches. Even Obama called them “freeloaders.”
Trump is right and should condition our military support on a members country’s contribution - not necessarily the past year but over time.
You have conveniently ignored the fact that Italy is home to a number of significant military installations like Sigonella, Gaeta, and Aviano, to name just three, that the US deems vital to its national interest. They are critical for the whole mediterranean and middle east region which includes Syria, Iran, and Iraq. Italians have also served in the Gulf Wars so perhaps we ought to say thank you more often.
Your argument, and President Trump's, is based on a very limited view of the situation.
3
Look what damage the refugee crisis has done to European politics. As the climate continues to change, nationalist policies will crowd out the room needed for transnational solutions. Unless there is a scientific breakthrough, liberal globalist economic policies will disappear, along with peace and prosperity.
5
"Under Trump, we’re letting alliances that we once held dear slip through our fingers..." It was not Trump who fostered the close relationship between Berlusconi and Salvini with Putin. And Russia's annexation of Crimea and incursion into Ukraine occurred under Obama not Trump. Looking at the world exclusively through an anti-Trump lens is provincial. Rather than Trump driving Italian politics, maybe the same forces that resulted in Trump here resulted in the ascendance of Di Maio and Salvini in Italy. Those of us who are internationalists need to appreciate the legitimate concerns of those who are hurt by globalism. Their demonization as proto-fascists serves only to divide and inflame.
6
This is no meaningful big deal with respect to Italy.
Italian glory lives in the past of Classical Ancient Rome, Vatican Roman Catholicism, Venetian commercialism and Florentine Renaissance. While the Italian present has Italy fourth behind Germany, the United Kingdom and France in GDP, population, political, diplomatic and military stable clout.
The Italian attraction to Vladimir Putin's Russia rest in envy. Putin leads an aging and shrinking nation of 145 million. America's annual GDP is 15x Russia and annual military spend is 9x Russia. But Russia punched and pushed it's way into meddling in American Presidential politics. While Putin's foes end up in prisons, hospitals, mental institutions, urns and coffins. Putin is a combination Italian dream Roman Emperor, Catholic Pope, Venetian/Florentine prince and organized crime godfather.
4
These are wild exaggerations. The Italian people ( from the formation as a nation) have always favored a liberal social democracy. It always leaned towards a populism of the "left" and not the RW. Too bad, the same arrogance that has possessed America's failed Democrat efforts to implement same when elected, has brought us to this point across the globe. For the record, I am of Italian descent. I have no axe to grin.
5
Mr. Bruni I expected a lot more insight from someone who has lived and worked in Italy. You are looking at the results of the Italian election through the prism of American progressive dogma - multiculturalism and status quo. Italians are fed up with ALL politicians - pretty much like Americans are. The only difference is that Italians are not tied to the mantra of the two party systems; there they actually have thrown out the bums!! So, the new guys are young and inexperienced - and they might even look at current Russia as a partner. I wish we could do the same here in the US instead of starting another cold war!!
5
The Italians simply replaced the bums with a cabal of much worse bums. Authoritarianism informed by xenophobia never works out well.
1
Europe was always a investment in the USA many heavy industries were foreign owned or hidden on the back side we had immigrants working there due to a exodus of europe in its turmoil. Now Nationalism has taken over and all forgot where the investment capital comes from.we need to get under stand all heavy dustries will still come from China due to every countries kids will not work in those jobs or in the process of middle manfacturing europe is banking on the Russian countries for cheap labor.If there is a answer the free market and world is in decline and new areas will be the next investments but for a short time
It is always and everywhere about Putin. Putin and nothing else, only and exclusively, singularly and exceptionally about Putin. What else could it be about? The global crisis of capitalism? The predatory practices of big companies? Of course not. It is Putin, Putin, Putin all the way, through and through. Why even write anything else - just put in Putin and be done with it.
2
I believe that we can muddle through the problems of the predatory version of capitalism. As long as we have at least the opportunity to control our collective destiny. But we cannot muddle through the way Putin has co-opted that opportunity. So, yeah, Putin is a huge geopolitical factor.
I would be the first to admit having no love lost for Trump. But to generalize his policies and personalities to Italian estrangement from the US is a bit too simplistic. As in the US successful politicians spoke to the concerns of the populace; the haughty Germans who were all in support of unlimited immigration until it adversely affected them; pushing punishing austerity measures on Greece and Italy. Both countries had much to answer for in the stewardship of their economy, but a more convivial dialogue would have helped sooth tensions. As in the US people see bankers, industrialists, etc. run companies into the ground and walk away with millions in severance pay and government bailouts. Socialism for the capitalists, capitalism for for the rest of us.
12
I was in Italy in the 90s. In a tiny coffee shop in the rural Abruzzi mountains I was fumbling for change to pay for a cappuccino and wound up handing the lady an American dime. She looked at it and immediately recognized FDRs profile. She smiled and spoke with reverence for Roosevelt. For her, he was the American president who saved Italy. For me, it was a simultaneously proud and humbling moment for what it meant to be an American, to feel our impact in the far nooks and crannies of the world. I wonder whether that lady is still alive what she thinks of us now.
15
Similar lovely memory: I was in Cinque Terre on the 1st anniversary of 9/11. There was a big event at the waterfront stage; musicians, etc. (Who knew Italy had Ragtime music and banjos?) The young American transplant noted that the world was shocked by that event, and the Italian people dragged American tourists into their homes to express their horror and enduring gratitude for the American soldiers who fought side by side with them in WWII. Then we wrongfully invaded Iraq, beginning decades of international turmoil. Wonder what they think of us now, indeed.
1
My husband who has dual citizenship, Italian and American, just voted for the right-wing party in Italy. He also voted for Trump. He favors fascist tendencies in politicians. He thinks we should make peace with Putin. I don't get it. My husband is highly educated (PhD from Harvard). He should know better but constantly defends their politics. It makes no sense to me.
12
Did you ask to him to explain his thinking? Logically, without propaganda and baseless claims. Who knows, maybe he will convince you (at least partially) or you will change his mind on some things.
Of course it is tough to discuss serious politics within family - but you would know better whether this is a good idea for you and your husband, or not.
2
The world is wobbling on its axis thanks to autocrats like Putin, trump and Kim Jong. Un but the pendulum will eventually swing and the world will right itself once again.
8
Bruni ignores the fact that Italy's "commitment" to democracy and liberal values has been a short-lived, thin veneer. Italy did not become a country until 1861, and democracy did not really begin to rear its head until after World War II, even then not without ongoing struggle. The fascists did not magically disappear, nor did the communist opposition evaporate. Meanwhile Berlusconi makes Trump look like an amateur, when it comes to understanding the politics of political theater.
A century-an-a-half is not much time for the very different regions of Italy to develope a collective identity and purpose. And seventy years is little time for democracy and liberal values to take hold in any meaningful way.
It also seems there is some naive patronizing in blaming it all on Trump, as if others aren't capable of mischief on their own, and as if Trump is not more an effect than a cause of social deterioration.
There is a commonality among the current columns by Bruni, Brooks, and Stephens: a sad, resigned disillusionment that comes from having lived within an optimistic, very American illusion in the first place, an illusion that decent people everywhere aspire to our noblest proclaimed values. It is sad, because all three intermittently have observations and analyses that are perceptive and important. They deserve better. Hopefully they will take the long view and regain a sense of hope, even if not full-blown optimism. Their ongoing engagement is appreciated and, yes, important.
5
Italy did have a period of good government, effective management by real democracy, that peaked around the time of its 1911 war with Turkey, when it took Libya. By the end of WW1 all that was in ruins. So Italians have done it, it just has been a century since they did.
Italians are fed up with disfunctional liberalism, corruption, and inequality as well as the lack of EU solidarity in dealing with a growing refugee crisis. Unfortunately, Trump and his nationalist cohorts only fan the flames of discontent instead of mobilizing the free world to build a more fair world order based on civil liberties, solidarity, and democracy. Perhaps all too fittingly the Italians see Putin as a benevolent godfather in his mafia-style despotism. Tragically, due to a combination of growing inequality, weak international institutions, and the short memories of nationalists, if the liberal democracies don't quickly enact more effective reforms, we are headed back to a world at war and this time under Trump it looks like the US might side with the bad guys.
9
"Italians are fed up with disfunctional liberalism, corruption, and inequality." Yet the longest-serving prime minister in post-war Italy is the distinctly illiberal, corrupt and pro-inequality Silvio Berlusconi. If you're tired of corruption, you turn to...Putin? Really?
First: "abandonment of important liberal values"
Liberal values can't hold up against a bad economy. You have to keep most of the country at least moderately prosperous to maintain liberalism. Fail at that and the nationalists move in every time.
Second: "I think the majority opinion is that Trump is crazy"
That opinion is widespread in the US too.
Third: "Under Trump, we’re letting alliances that we once held dear slip through our fingers, and we’re cavalierly throwing others away."
I'd like to think it is "him" (Trump) and not "us" doing this, but that difference is rhetorical at best. For better or worse, he is our leader.
One can only hope that we outlast Trump and get back to sane leadership. Maybe then we can solve some of the problems left festering by the Democrats, and maybe, just maybe, the rest of our allies will come to appreciate us a bit more. Maybe I'm being a bit optimistic here.
7
Italy has dumped America for Italy. I guess pointing at Russia is the default thing to do when elections don't go your way these days but as far as I can tell Italians voting last week made their decision about where to take the country abundantly clear. Let's not deny them their autonomy.
9
For the past few years, we've seen more and more governments change from moderate/left of center to right-wing. In every one, immigration has been the dominant issue. I wonder if moderate political leaders are listening to what their citizens are saying? Immigration may be the right thing, the moral thing to do, but it may continue to be political suicide for those who support it. My guess is that in the 2018 and 2020 elections in the U. S., immigration will be one of the most important issues in our elections. Of course, this will favor Republicans. "It's the economy, stupid" may be replaced by "It's immigration, stupid."
12
Well said. Not to say Italy should be a major concern. However, the more we lose and the less we gain with our collective stupidity the worse off we will be in the long run.
1
I am Italian, and I live in Italy. It is evident to me that Mr. Bruni's "Opinion" comes from a person who is not in contact with the real people in Italy nor is correctly informed. Italians have not dumped America in favor of Russia, they have dumped that part of US which is represented by Trump, by his supporters, and by his minions.
13
Yes, we're better than this. But only if we believe we can be. Only if we want to be. Only if we choose to be.
The far right wing movement, given political power by the Republican Party, has brought out the worst in America for decades -it has enabled, envigorated and exploited bigotry, anti-intellectualism, fear and contempt for "the other," patriarchy, tribalism, authoritarianism, etc., for years - and they have taken hold.
Is it any wonder that the rest of the world no longer looks to the US for leadership? Trump offers them nothing. No one looks to people or countries playing a zero sum game for leadership; they just reject them.
The mistake is in thinking that Trump supporters care. They believe that we are better off isolated, self-centered, and without the obligations that international agreements, partnerships and alliances place on us. If someone else isn't losing, they believe, then we're not winning. Fairness to them is about getting their own way. International cooperation is only for "losers." To them, there is no such thing as a win-win scenario.
Worse, Trump and his Republican enablers and supporters offer no inspiration or leadership in strengthening the world's liberal democratic institutions, because they have spent so much energy in undermining them and reducing support for the principles behind them, in order to come to power.
Who will look for leadership from America, when all we offer them is our worst?
5
Mr. Bruni is projecting our domestic political discomfort. Italy is adrift and unhappy for reasons that have nothing to do with us. The Italians I know don't spend much time analyzing other countries' state of mind and adjusting their attitudes according to the latest news. They have always been vaguely resentful and contemptuous of the US and Germany, but this is more of a cultural than political phenomenon.
2
Italy, in particularly the islands off Sicily, have rescued thousands of immigrants from drowning, and with limited resources, has given them refuge. I can’t say the same for Trump’s America who wants to build walls and separate families to send them back south, and to tear dreamers from their dreams of becoming citizens.
In a world that is impacted by global climate change, displacement of populations will continue from rising secoasts, baked interiors, and fewer resources. Instead of using technology to help find solutions to help humanity, the oligarchs are robbing us blind and creating divisions amongst us.
Putin and Trump sow chaos and thrive on people’s baser survival instincts to keep themselves awash in power and money.
Italy only needs to look at is own history to resist the siren call to authoritarianism.
I, too, believe in Italy’s passion for beauty, love, and life to prevail over prejudice and hatred. Italy, dump any ties to Putin, and have faith that we will dump Trump.
5
Which is why Putin installed Trump in the first place. Trump has already torn down the bonds of what was called the 'free world', now he needs to creat a great depression so that, once again, dictators can take over industrialized economies.
5
Trump is doing all this on purpose. He is not a patriot. Deep down he hates the US. American banks didn't give him money. According to his son he cares only about money. Without money he is nothing.
5
It's easier than ever these days to sell oneself's soul to a devil. Take your pick. And not for the first time in history, unlike the theater stage, will the ending of this play be unhappy: there will be no heroes.
Bruni ignores the fact that Italy's "commitment" to democracy and liberal values is a short-lived, thin veneer. Italy did not even become a country until 1861. Democracy did not really rear its head until after World War II, and even then not without an ongoing struggle. The fascists did not magically disappear, nor did the communist opposition. Meanwhile Berlusconi makes Trump look like an amateur, when it comes to understanding political theater.
A century-an-a-half is not much time for the very different regions of Italy to develope a collective identity. Seventy years is even less time for democracy and liberal values to take hold in any meaningful way.
There is an arrogant patronizing to Bruni blaming it all on Trump, as if others aren't capable of mischief on their own.
There is a common thread among the current columns by Bruni, Brooks, and Stephens: a sad resigned disillusionment that can only come from having lived within an illusion in the first place. It is sad, because all three intermittently have observations and analyses that are perceptive and important. They deserve better. Hopefully they will take the long view and regain a sense of hope, even if not full-blown optimism. Their ongoing engagement is helpful and important.
2
Frank,
The pendulum won't swing back until Trump is forced into political retirement. Unfortunately the U.S. is full of cowards who fear his post-White House retaliation. His presidency will be a blessing in disguise if it teaches us to stop worshiping the wealthy.
3
Italy, or rather some Italians, may like Putin more than they like the US. They may also like Trump more than the US, to the extent US foreign policy has yet to catch up with Trump's own. Most Italians no longer like Merkel, though, the reason being that, despite her professional and reassuring demeanor, she has stolen their livelihoods. It's a struggle for survival, the first step of which is to recognize one is in a struggle. The hostility towards the American-, German- and, now, Chinese-led global order reflects the realization that outcomes are lopsided. I like to draw a parallel between the rich-poor people divide in the US and the rich-poor country divide in the European Union. Essentially, voters in liberal democracies must demand more say given their one-person-one-vote rights and their countries' national sovereignty -- prioritize self-interest and do not assume benevolent intent from rich people in your society or rich countries in your surroundings. You may have to swallow bitter pills but don't pretend it's ok and work to change it. And realize that this is about your life, your future and your children's future. There may yet be room for a grand bargain among, and within, Western democracies, but it requires new principles and a new establishment ... our own cultural revolution.
2
There are at least two common threads running through every commentary on the rise of right wing nationalism in the U.S. and Europe: The unabated income disparity between the very rich and everyone else, and blame-shifting onto immigrants for the majority of our problems. This is not news to anyone, and it's not subtle.
The massive wealth shift is easily described by court rulings and economic policies that fully favor the patrons and donors of the very people responsible for implementing those policies. But the anti-immigrant blame game is nothing more than an uninformed, under-educated and gullible citizenry being manipulated into believing that their poor fortune is due to the arrival of immigrants, and that the certain solution is their immediate removal. In these circumstances it's surprising that the right hasn't made more advances in Europe --- similar to what's happened in the U.S., where the rotted out right wing Republican party now controls the Senate, the House, the Presidency, the Supreme Court, and the majority of state legislatures and governors. In this regard, Italy is actually late to the game.
The sad part is that Trump is, in fact, the leader of the free world, and he is leading it right down the path of right wing nationalism. Racism, virulent anti-immigrant tirades, a coarsening of language in public discourse, and appeals to the worst nature of the citizenry --- now our most significant exports.
5
Italy also has to carry the brunt of the refugee crisis created by the perpetual American wars in in the Middle East since 9/11. And how many of those refugees are the UK/ US taking in? But hey, selling weapons and waging sensless proxi wars is more profitable than cleaning up the mess and destabilizations created all around that region.
9
Italy is in good company with the rest of Europe with disenchantment toward the US. Trump is fickle and petty. Trump mocks international accords and alliances. Putin is merciless, but he is predictable and pragmatic. He puts on no pretenses about what he stands for.
Donald Rumsfeld once disparaged what he called "Old Europe." Increasingly, it appears that the 'new order' leaves America far behind.
2
Being a tad cynical here, but maybe they are seeing that it's pretty close to one and the same...the US and Russia. Only one is all bluster and maybe even a puppet or prop for the other one that's a real oligarch-dictator with real strength.
I am so saddened to have come this far in age to see my country sink to such lows and to feel compelled to protest and march and write all the time...every single day. I did it in the 60's and now I'm in my 60's and doing it again. Exhausting.
5
So..... It's the economy, stupid.
The European Union has no more been able to help the Italians cope with economic loss, unemployment, loss of good wage jobs, manufacturing and a sense of a solid future than rust belt cities and rural America has been able to depend on Washington to do the same.
Is it a surprise that in both places populism, anti-immigration, nationalism and a turn away from the controlling parties for hope of a market for goods and services that will drive prosperity?
Trump is a disrupter and has, as he promised, disrupted. But the core profound distrust of the powers that be is the driving force here. Putin offers a solid alternative and can dangle a large market for goods in front of the Italians.
Our governments have chosen winners and losers. The losers look to almost anyone to bring them back on board. That is dangerous for nations that have a history, like Italy, of putting their faith in authoritarian demagogues. But is dangerous for nations like the US, who have so far not, as well.
When a government chooses who wins and who loses, disruption follows. And most of the time it is ugly.
3
Two countries with very different outlooks.
One is miserable, depressed, unhappy, nationalistic, aggressive, unpopular, lacking in creativity, fixated on the imagined glory of the past.
The other is Russia.
Dear Mr. Bruni, Do not abandon all hope yet! I happened to be in Rome just a few days before the election and I had the chance to discuss politics with a cab driver on the way in from the airport. He was a thirtysomething sicilian who had come north for work. He was adamant in his disdain for the traditional right and left because of corruption and ineffective governance. He was especially disappointed in Rienzi and the PD who had the chance to govern and completely failed. He also rejected the League for their overt racism (it used to be directed to southerners like him). So he was supporting the five star movement if only because he thought they deserved a chance to show what they could do and because they were relatively untainted by corruption. The logic was clear and I suspect applicable to many Italian voters. So I was not surprised by the election results.
By the way, he thought Trump was a somewhat dangerous clown but his attitude to America was not really altered. He hoped to visit New York but he never mentioned a desire to see Moscow.
22
Having lost all relevance in the United States, Steve Bannon is now spreading his poison in France and Italy. "Let them call you racist," he says. If they do, it will not end well.
5
Why do you accept the fact that the whole world shares the opinion of the Italia electorate but does , mostly, have the leeway to express it the same way.!Taly did.
Universal frustration at USA prevails all over the world for America and Americans to know and draw the appropriate response.
It started with universal conscious that the USA neither really care about the nonboutgeois /business communities nor about the socio economic conditions of the majoriy By insisting that the only way for progress is the Libera/capitalist /free market and a bound working class that shares the same objectives,
Rediculous as that is the USA managed to convince its own workin class but not only Failed every where else.but turned non American working class into bitter adversaries of both the USA and its advocates.!
To counter a burgeoning anti America public rejection the USA went so far as allying itself with declared anti progressive movements and parties killing in the process what could have developed, evolved into what millions believed that in as the way forward!
2
All of this trouble coincides with the rise of the Neo-Liberal economic consensus/Chicago school/market fundamentalism that has our leaders in thrall. Perhaps the voters simply won't accept the idea that we must give up everything we hold dear in the name of efficiency.
10
In the name of profits for our "betters." It isn't even efficient. Wrecking the economy, stalling recovery, crippling the demand side, those are not efficient, just the price to pay for looting the place by the wealthy.
2
“They have excused Russia’s incursions into Ukraine by putting the blame on the European Union and even the United States. They have advocated an end to the European Union’s sanctions against Russia. They have expressed skepticism about NATO, to which Russia of course does not belong.”
These are all the positions that a fully-informed world citizen would take, based entirely on fact.
12
Bruni ignores the fact that Italy's "commitment" to democracy and liberal values is a short-lived, thin veneer. Italy did not even become a country until 1861, and democracy did not really begin to rear its head until after World War II, even then not without ongoing struggle. The fascists did not magically disappear, nor did the communist opposition dissolve without a mark. Meanwhile Berlusconi makes Trump look like an amateur, when it comes to understanding political theater.
A century-an-a-half is not much time for the very different regions of Italy to develope a collective identity. And seventy years is even less time for democracy and liberal values to take hold in any meaningful way.
There is a naive patronizing to Bruni blaming it all on Trump, as if others aren't capable of mischief on their own, and as if Trump is not more an effect than a cause of social deterioration.
I find a common thread among the current columns by Bruni, Brooks, and Stephens: a sad, resigned disillusionment that can only come from having lived within an optimistic illusion in the first place. It is sad, because all three intermittently have observations and analyses that are perceptive and important. They deserve better. Hopefully they will take the long view and regain a sense of hope, even if not full-blown optimism. Their ongoing engagement is appreciated and, yes, important.
7
Good post. Bravo.
It is somewhat naive to think that international relationships are going to last forever. Whatever circumstances forged the initial relationship, and made sense at the time, are subject, like everything else, to change brought on by the passage of time. Whilst some may be intended for long term benefit, others are done with a wink and a nod, "treaties are like pie crusts, made to be broken," to quote Vladimir Lenin, Putin's political ancestor. The old maxims of "grass being greener" and "be careful what you wish for" are certainly true in internationals relations/alliances.
The "Kumbaya" ideal of a post nationalist world order only makes sense and works if you can get everyone on board with being a part, having an active share in, and benefitting from it. Against this backdrop of idealism is the very much more rampant, probably genetically encoded tribalism. That is our history from the wars in Biblical times to the Rohingya in Burma today.
Awash in a world of change, only the elite who can afford to forego their ethnic or religious tribalism in pursuit of the larger goal can afford the luxury of it. The rest of the people, not so much. Indeed, they see the elite as become a tribe unto themselves, taking and taking, whilst the rest of the world makes do with less and less. Is it really any wonder that alternatives are more appealing?
7
Wait a few months and ask Italians how that's working out for them. As with Trump & Brexit voters, some are likely to remain committed while many others will have buyer's remorse about their vote. In countries with relatively free elections, people, as a whole, get the government they deserve.
1
"Wait a few months and ask Italians how that's working out for them."
Compared to what? That's the rub. The alternatives don't include a liberal democratic paradise. They do include a lot of failure, corruption, and general nastiness.
Russia is no alternative to America, even the current America. And there is, of course. history: Italy had once taken a side opposite to America and her allies. It did not end well.
5
The last line says it all. Every action has a reaction, and the U.S. has taken so many thoughtless and globally unpopular actions this century alone that the camels' backs have finally been broken. People and nations who would normally gravitate towards the States, based on the principles it once stood for, have now taken a more pragmatic approach and are exploring other avenues and ties.
The latest defeat for the U.S. is in the form of the CPTPP, a trade pact between 11 nations with a combined population of 500 million, to the total exclusion of the U.S.. The pact has allowed for the addition of other nations in due course.
There are limits on the extent to which the U.S. can use its currency as a battering ram, threatening friend and foe alike with sanctions if they refuse to obey U.S. laws. This is just the beginning, and the extent of the danger to the U.S. will become apparent when it has to borrow $ 1.8 trillion from abroad between now and 2019 to finance its trade and budget deficits.
5
seems to me there is more of a turning away from the Trump USA than a turn to Russia. And US critics do have a point, the US and the west did help overthrow a pro-Russian government in Ukraine, so there is now another unintended consequence coming home to roost.
And the US interference in the Middle East and north Africa has helped swamp Italy with unassimilated refugees, asylum seekers, and would-be immigrants, Italians cannot be blamed for saying, enough!
But, maybe because I live in a state with many Italian-Americans, I'm confident fine relations will persist between the Italian and American people who have a lot of affection for each other's country despite the politics.
6
Add the disruptive blot of worldwide western colonialism that will take more than a century or so to get cleaned up. We keep losing sight of it, lurking not too far behind us.
1
As an Italian and long time friend and fan of America and American values I am dismayed at the course the U.S. has taken over the past 20 years or so. It is not just Trump although he is the latest, and perhaps most extreme, manifestation, of a jingoistic, self-absorbed, paranoid attitude towards the world and anyone and anything that is not American. This trend started a long time ago. The rhetoric of American exceptionalsm and jingoism has escalated since the Reagan presidency and a number of US presidents have acted in ways that have alienated a significant number of America's friends. The Bushes but also Clinton and Obama have escalated global conflict, expanded a militaristic, paranoid parallel state which seems out of the control of democratic institutions. Democrats and Republicans act alike. There is a perception that there is no real political choice in America. That the people of the United States have lost contol over their institutions. It is not a good trend for neither America nor its friends and allies.
13
Not all "protection of one's own tribe" is zealous and the result of skepticism of foreigners. The more that we are treated as if it is, the more likely are we to reach out for extreme measures.
2
On the Italian populists: "They have excused Russia’s incursions into Ukraine by putting the blame on the European Union and even the United States."
If so: on that specific standpoint they happen to agree with the highly reputed American professor and political scientist John Mearsheimer, writing in the most renowned journal in the field: Foreign Affairs.
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/russia-fsu/2014-08-18/why-ukrain...
Mearsheimer makes a strong case for his opinion, with compelling analysis based on comprehensive insight. It's telling that his and other's more factual view is completely overlooked by corporate media, and replaced by a shallow anti-Russian propagandist approach.
Which is NOT to say that Putin and Russia are flawless in their actions, far from it. But western media should try to live up to their professed admiration for truth and facts, as opposed to the proclaimed false information on social media which they so much detest.
8
Once upon a time America represented for many here in Europe the future. The future of things and above all of people. Dear American friends, do you ever wonder what America represents in the world today? If you did, you would find out that it is the nation that spends more than ten successive nations put together in arms, that it is the country with more than 140 million of its fellow citizens in poverty or at risk of poverty, that is the country in which health cover is a drama for so many, too many, that is the country whose leading companies have accumulated enormous fortunes without paying practically nothing in taxes in the countries where they operate. I do not believe that we should continue. What is worse, however, is that this mentality has first contaminated and then intoxicated our societies. In other words, America is no longer America. Today America is frightening us.
That is the problem. Yours and unfortunately also ours. Best regards from Padova EU.
7
And Russian influence and money is in Greece, Serbia, Montenegro and who knows where else and was already on the rise. Trump will accelerate that. The U.S. (GOP leading the way) is asleep. Hotels in Greek tourist destinations are now trilingual Greek, English and Russian (the Russian is new). Russian money built the airport in Beograd. Talk about strategic creep.
Security clearances issues and bank loans at home leave me wondering not just about Donal and Jared but about Milania. No one in the press covers the money flow in Slovenia which sits near Vienna, was the banking capital of the old Yugoslavia, and has some of the best IT security back office firms (Ryan Air uses firms there) globally.
1
Always follow the money. I'm surprised the long-term and very public bromance between Berlusconi and Putin is not given more attention. Also the energy ties between the Russian and Italian energy sectors. It's very facile and superficial to just continually bring up Trump's name for issues that have been festering for many years. Russian big money has been moving aggressively throughout Europe way before the last U.S. presidential election.
4
Bruni has missed the mark. Italians don't love and admire Putin. They, along with our other former allies, have been forsaken by the United States, which elected a separatist buffoon to its highest office. And, more to the point regarding the latest election results, Italy has been forsaken by the rest of the EU as it struggles virtually alone with the tens of thousands of refugees washing up on its shores every year. Every day Italians rescue migrants at sea, offer medical care, and provide housing and other resources for them while the country struggles with long-standing economic strife, an overburdened infrastructure, and crippling unemployment. Italy is carrying a disproportionate burden of this worldwide crisis. People are burnt out and fed up -- and these are the consequences.
12
You could not have stated this better. The ugly truth about this immigration (refugee) crisis, is that it was triggered, to a great degree by the meddling and unjustified actions of the U.S. in the Middle East. And there are plenty of Italian "critics" who would accuse Italy of incompetence in handling all the people trying to escape their conditions? Well, neither the EU or the US has been very helpful. This has led to the anti immigration forces here to use the usual resentment politics to get votes.
3
The sad lesson we are learning the world over is that commitment to principles is not as strong as appetite. When democracy promises a step up in the common man's prospects, people have been passionate in its pursuit. Once secured, however, just as passionate about retaining narrow privilege masquerading as fair play. And when, as now, something other than democracy promises a larger stash, well, there goes all that pretense about noble ideas and the willingness to, shudder, make sacrifices.
2
Truer words were never spoken. Americans long ago forgot that the purpose for which the nation was founded was to be the richest or most powerful nation on earth but to secure our personal liberties. For generations now we have been willing to trade away freedom for affluence, imagined security, comfort, and power. We even conscript our formerly free citizens as slaves of the state to send into foreign wars and call it patriotism.
3
I have little idea of Italian politics, but throughout the world common human needs and values cannot be too different, which makes their move somewhat understandable.
1
Neither Trump nor Putin can save Italy... the Italian median age is 45.1 (for females it is 46.2) and their reproductive rate at present is 1.39 (replacement rate is 2.1); lifespan in Italy is 83.49; that means that in about 40 years the number of Italians in Italy will be reduced by more than half! If migrants fill the void, we will have an Italy with less than 50% Italians!
3
Your statistics certainly do point to the demographic problems in Italy, but I find your conclusion shallow. So what if a lot of future Italians are not of Italian ancestry? Lega and to a lesser extent, the 5-Star want to "preserve true Italian culture," never mind that modern Italy is a very new country (only 150+ years old) and, if you want to look carefully, it is composed of a huge diversity of "cultures."
2
As an expat living in Italy here are some things to consider:
1) The largest share of the votes went to 5-Star and Lega. Neither has a majority to form a government. And, so far the Partito Democratico isn't likely to form a coalition with either.
2) The right-wing parties don't seem likely to form a coalition because both of their leaders want to be Prime minister (could happen...maybe). We could be back voting again if no government can be formed.
3) I don't know any Italians who adore (or even remotely like) either Putin or Trump. I think most people around the world (except for the 60 million Americans who made the mistake of voting for Trump) know that these "strong-man" bullies don't care about regular folk.
63
As someone who did business in Italy since 1992, bringing American bands to tour, Italy has always been totally disorganized. Payoffs for this or that, cancellations, all kinds of scams.
As for the Russians, there is no Iron Curtain anymore. Why do people still think they should "stay in their place" and leave it to Americans to order people about?
4
Thanks Frank. Fine article. It makes me think right away that stirring the international pot as Trump is doing might be a good idea.
Of course installing a pro western leader in Ukraine was a bad idea. If the elected Viktor Yanukovich had stayed in power NATO would not be threatening Russia from the west and there would be no war in the Donbass and Crimea would be at peace as part of Ukraine.
I wasted two votes on Obama who liked the no drama moniker so much he never stirred anything. He sure didn't agree to meet Kim Jong-Un on a basketball court with Dennis Rodman reffing the historic event.
1
This is what corporate globalism has left in its wake. An Italian form of Brexit. Let's see, when else did we see similar patterns emerging following a global economic meltdown caused by feral capitalism, followed by austerity economic policies leading to nationalistic sentiments. Um, where did we last see a similar pattern?
4
So Trump is responsible for Italians returning to their fascist roots? And the only two paths for Italians this year are Trump or Putin—a binary choice? No chance ordinary Italians were feeling economically marginalized by the EU (Germany), and upset by the sudden influx of the large number of migrants it hasn’t been able to fob off? Haven’t Austria, Hungary, Poland, the UK, and even France and Germany, varying turned politically to the right?
But of what consequence is the current state of Italian politics to the U.S.? How does it fundamentally affect me, as an American, or the world at large? Italy has a population of but 60 million and doesn’t project influence beyond its own borders.
5
Sad, disastrous, and very frightening.
America has to take its fair part of blame for this state of things. During a business trip to Italy last week, while talking over dinner with a group pf people who included a retired CEO, management consultants and scientists - not exactly your prototypes for “Putin fans” - I was astonished to hear an overwhelming opinion that “America hates the European Union” and has been working to undermine it for decades, through currency manipulation, meddling in political affairs, military pressure, and so on.
The general opinion in Italy today seems to be that America in the past always worked to undermine the political and economic influence of Europe, but at least it was committed to defending it as a bulwark of democracy against the brutal autocratic regimes of the east; nowadays not only is America trying even harder to rip the EU apart (see Trump’s support to Brexit, or Bannon’s unwanted meddling in Europe’s internal affairs), but it is not even committed to defending the basic values of freedom and democracy anymore.
Of course Putin is an even worse poisonous snake than Trump, but most people in Italy do not really see that, as Russia’s influence in Italian affairs has been mostly intangible to the average person so far.
Italians are in for a rude awakening if they continue their love affair with Putin, but Trump’s poisonous, destructive and hateful administration is not doing ANYTHING to make itself more likable.
1
You haven't been to the Italy I know so intimately. The Italian diaspora is essentially a country mired in the mud, unable to get traction and a future for it's youngest college grads that is impossibly bleak. None of this is new but since the financial crises, Italy has been unable to grow and it continues to see brand failures and fraud scandals that does nothing for the confidence of foreign investors to consider Italy. Sure just like the Obama administration, the communists and socialists aim to leverage the Southern Italian voting populations by promising voters much more social support. Many young citizens in the Northern Italy are jumping on this band wagon and frankly why shouldn't they? But that leads to the question of who pays for all of this? Will being closer to Russians or joining the Communist party in Italy solve the continues debt that piled and continues to pile up since WW2? Of course not and I fear that this debt will blow up Italy, taking down the EU in the process. Perhaps Brexit is not a bad thing if it doesn't have to pay into staving off Italy's bankruptcy?
1
We are in an ugly time. Folks will turn to blood-and-soil nationalism in an uncertain age. A generation ago, a professor in linguistics told the class that "in the 21st Century, everyone will want a tribe again."
At the time, in an era of Postmodernism and the end of history, I scoffed quietly.
How wrong I was. And now...we will all pay the price for not paying more attention. This is what Putin and his ilk love.
1
As a long-time resident of Italy, I can assure readers that the title of this article greatly exaggerates the state of affairs here. As several of Bruni's quotes suggest, the recent elections had nothing to do with Putin and Russia. Nor should one lump together the Lega, a party with a xenophobic program and tone along the lines of the French Front National, and the Five-Star Movement, a party popular among left-wing voters which may turn out to be a responsible governing force.
3
Mr.Bruni,The reasons Italy prefer Russia are understandable,first America was behind the removal of Quaffi resulting in many illegal immigrants from Africa,the american pressure establishing EU sanctions on Russia ,resulting in a loss of business to Italian concerns and finally Italians are aware of how CIA ussia harmed Italy?
2
"They have excused Russia’s incursions into Ukraine by putting the blame on the European Union and even the United States."
This short sentence leaves out some important facts. Crimea was part of Russia until in 1954 Nikita K. gave it to Ukraine. Russia accepted Ukraine's ownership of Crimea for 60 years until Mr. Obama went along with the riots in Kiev which undermined the existing elected - and pro-Russia - government. The population of Crimea is largely Russian speaking and they do not speak Ukrainian. And finally there WAS a referendum during which Crimeans voted to join Russia.
Maybe Italians are aware of these facts even if you (and most readers of the NYT) are not. The "Russian incursion" was a reaction to Mr. Obama's anti-Russia policy which Russia, rightly, found threatening.
5
Why is it surprising that people in Italy, and Europe, and the US embrace populism, Putin, Trump, Brexit, etc.? As easy as it is to recognize Putin's methods as thuggish, is he a bigger threat than China's Xi? In fact, Putin is just a head of state protecting its country's political system from externally (US) imposed change. There is consternation that Trump is going against the tradition of continuity in US foreign policy (such as towards Russia) regardless of changes in administration. Well, such lack of change suggests lack of democratic agency, as if American politics were just entertainment for domestic consumption. Growing up, I always assumed that the CIA ran Italy. I had no direct evidence. After living here for 35 years, I rely on direct evidence, accepting that, in the US, the truth does come out, thanks to competition between Republicans and Democrats, in Congress, in the media, and in court ... but I am less and less sure. Is lack of direct evidence enough to dismiss the "cui bono" theory that a bunch of very rich people effectively run the world at this point? Key US policy decisions, sold on their aggregate benefits, had grotesque "side" effects that enriched only our own oligarchs -- opening up to China or resolving the financial crisis through financial repression / asset inflation instead of mortgage write-downs and bank nationalization. The same Italians who like Putin may well like Trump. And they won't like Merkel, or Xi. lt is, finally, self-interest.
17
A bunch of very rich people TRY to run the world but as always with intellectualizers and complex systems they vastly overestimate their ability to predict and control events. I prefer the open chaos of freedom to the unintended surprises of the delusion of control . In the former, billions of individual experiments gradually reveals what works without the necessity to understand the millions of feedback loops and interdependent variables resulting from 7 billion free agents.
I've spent weeks every few years visiting my cousins and uncles from Rome to Sicily and yes things have changed. The ties many Italians felt to the US have loosened. The baby boomers are getting on in years and they are the last generation to remember the Marshall Plan. My boomer friends and cousins used to point out the Plans accomplishments in every town I visited. My younger cousins have little interest.
Their children and now grandchildren relate more to their EU neighbors then to their extended family living in the US. Coming to live in the US isn't as glamorous as it once seemed to them. It's expensive and is now the country that meddles too much too close to their home. They would rather move to Spain or Germany or Britain for work. The US started to lose influence as the EU grew.
And when it comes to Trump they seemed as confused as us. How could he win with fewer voters? Italians reject ostentation and Trump bathes in it. For all his faults Putin is still looked at by his people as a leader that turned the Russian economy around.
And to those who don't think Italy is of strategic importance; NATO has it's Southern command center in Naples and the US has seven military bases there. I'm sure Putin would just love to see the Italians turn their backs on NATO and those US bases.
24
A great piece, thank you. I do think however that Americans and Italians share so much history, culture and values that their friendship is deep enough to withstand political vagaries. As an Italian-Australian and
Grandfather of 2 adorable American grandchildren I am reassured by that.
I would add that having a less antagonistic attitude to Russia may turn out to be a good thing for Italy and the US also.
2
From the start, the Cinque Stelle movement has been primarily a rebellion against the ruling elite of both the left and the right and the confounding and corrupt bureaucracy.
Perhaps it has turned anti-immigrant as well, especially in the cities and in the north.
There are no walls that will help the problem of a country bordered on three sides by water, with islands..
The only long term solution is to eliminate the wars and improve dismal economies that drive people from their homes. But that smacks of globalism.
7
Why is it always America and Europe's responsibility to improve "dismal economies" in Africa and the Middle East?
"They have excused Russia’s incursions into Ukraine by putting the blame on the European Union and even the United States. "
Even? Even the United States? There seems to be some big denial here about the large responsibility America and Obama bear for the mess in the Ukraine.
14
Great column, but I'm left a bit confused. You say Italians are turning away from the US and toward Russia because they are repulsed by Trump and attracted by Putin. Given that Trump is little more than a Putin wannabe, I assume the reasoning on the part of Italians is something like "Why settle for the ersatz version when you can go for the genuine article".
On another note, a constantly heard explanation for the global rise of "populism" is the wave of immigrant-refugees across much of Europe and, so we're told, also the US. If those refugees are such a concern an intelligent response on the part of the countries considering themselves the victims of an invasion would be to cease invading and exploiting the source countries, and instead assist them as far as possible in building progressive, orderly societies, and ceasing aiding and abetting their despotic governments. The operative word in that sentence is intelligent.
23
Trump will never be a Putin. Putin's IQ is way way higher than Trump's and while failed businessman Trump fancies himself a dealmaker, Putin knows how to take what he wants, no apologies given. Comparing those two is like trying to compare a radish with an apple.
1
I'm Italian, and I don't feel such a pro-Russia, pro-Putin attitude in my country . Russia is admired only for a few things (as e.g. the great 19th century novelists, ), but not for Putin, and no longer for being the house of Communism. Instead, we are still deeply interested in American word, both in things that we love (the list is too long to be written here), and in those we dont' like and wouldn't be acceptable here, as the mass shootings in the schools.
100
I will admit that my "Grandmother" research methodology is similar to Mr. Bruni -- in that it's not scientific nor statistically reliable -- but I live in Italy, talk with many people about politics and have not met one person who likes Putin. For that matter I have met none none that like Trump. Regret that I believe the fundamental theory of this article maybe flawed. The Italians I meet are still much, much more appreciative of the US than Russia. The voting pattern is a reflection of the fact that their government has been flawed in their non solution to the immigrant situation and the employment for life concept that has kept the employment numbers for those under 25 at around 30%.
92
I can't blame Italians.
I despise Putin...almost as much as I despise his friend Donald Trump.
Italians love America.
But Trump has waged "war" against our friends and allies.
So ALL of America's friends and allies may soon be our former friends and allies.
We did it to ourselves by letting Trump become our president. China is now the #1 superpower and Russia is #2. The U.S. in just one year has fallen to #3.
204
I disagree, partly. Russia is still punching above its weight. Other than oil and Putin, what DO they have?
China has a lot. They are the power to watch. Where we, or Russia, end up is a different matter. By mid-century it will be painfully clear that our current moment is that of England in the early 50s: broke, scrapping the Royal Navy, losing the edge in R&D and advanced tech, but still thinking it could regain its stature. We won't. We're in a long decline and where we land? How hard? How we adapt psychologically to that new reality? How many giant corporations founded here leave for good for other, more politically functional parts of the world?
Those are the questions to ask: Putin's Russia is at best a dangerous sideshow.
1
You are correct in your listing of super power status. Our wars in the Middle East have been self defeating. This plus the Trump agenda has weakened us considerably.
3
How can Russia be a super power if she is broke? Didn't Putin and the Russian oligarchs steal the Russian treasury and move it to London? The oligarchs wanted to move the money to banks in NYC, and the U.S. said no. So, the money is stuck in London, as are the oligarchs.
They are anti Trump and that’s why they are becoming anti America. Only US person they go by is the PRESIDENT of US. He is the symbol of the country. Who can blame them with Trump as President. Soon many Americans will begin to think the same. Anti Trump will translate into that.
60
Anti-Trump?!?
Nobody care about Trump in Italy, it is the similar process that brought Trump and this new parties on top.
It is called FIRST "my state" world movement.
1
Mr. Bruni fails to pinpoint the real problem in Italy, which is the cultural takeover of the streets of ROME and other cities by refugees, leading the citizens of these urban centers to wonder how long we in the West can hold out. Appears that more and more frequently 1 sees women in full length hiquabs. As a result, natives are losing a sense of proprietorship, are giving up on keeping the city clean. Garbage piles up at street corners. It is no longer out of the ordinary to see men urinating in public.Mr. BRUNI devoted an article to the indifference of the municipal authorities and the citizenry to the filth. This is a far more serious problem than being glamoured by Vladimir PUTIN.
139
Good point. The Italians are not reproducing enough children to maintain the population. That accounts in part for their fear of immigrants transforming their country.
1
What about all the foreign policies and eternal wars promote by US and its allies in the places all the immigrants and refugies comes from?
There is always a consequence in all aspects in society when intervention for economic hegemony happens. Maybe Italians have realize this. Maybe it is time for all of us to realize this.
3
my neighborhood here in Chicago includes many people in various kinds of traditional Islamic dress; it is not a sign of urban or national decline. On the contrary, it is a sign of what a colorful, vital city we are. I don't follow how the influx of people from cultures you're not accustomed to justifies "giving up on keeping the city clean". Garbage doesn't pile up on street corners because of immigrants. People have been urinating in public in Rome for several thousand years, and it's not the women in Islamic dress who are doing it. It's not Muslims in Rome who have failed to handle the garbage issue.
1
Italians, like many others in Europe - and shockingly especially Eastern Europe - has a major crisis of amnesia concerning Russia. Everything the actual Russian politics advocates for - strong borders, nativism, local pride- is as it has always been just a form of manipulation of weak minds and greedy souls.
Russia had conveniently trampled borders, destroyed local ethnic communities, resettled peoples and amalgated huge populations with no regard for local "sentiments" or ethnic makeup.
So whoever mentions Russia as the example of strong borders, nations and ethnic communities is either disingenuous or is a victim of some major affliction which erases whole decades of historical facts and memories.
99
Ah yes amnesia is a disease not descriminate to nationality.
Amnesia affects those of you who have forgetten in the first place why your European 'borders' are now being trampled down by the herds of ever flowing refugees from Middle East.
Amnesia is convenient for masses to simply turn off their televisions and pretend that conflict collateral is another nations problem until it comes knocking on your door and even then its all too hazy to truly see through the fog of western propaganda.
Do you remember the enormous boat loads of refugees flooding into Europe when Gaddafi and Hussein were still in power, No?
How about who manupulated the world to seek U.N approval for intervention? Do you remember the reasons for U.S Coalition interventions into those country and more importantly how those countries have ended up? Whose 'borders' were trampled? Whose corporate greed was at jeopardy?
Ah yes, amnesia one step closer to dementia Marie
"The country is going through a crisis of the representative system". My gosh, go back to the 1970's and 1980's to see what a governing crisis looks like in Italy. What is going on today is an awakening to the fact that those who guided the country in what Mr. Bruni thinks of as happier times were in fact often incompetent and corrupt. People changing voting patterns is a sign that people have had enough - a quite American reaction.
50
As much as we adore Italy - another trip there might not be on the horizon. However, the same could be said of people around the globe who have decided America is not a place they'd like to visit.
45
I have lived in Italy for a number of years. There's nothing "wrong" with Italy that should keep you away! At least you won't have to worry about being mowed down by someone with an automatic, military grade weapon!!!!
1
Italy has an identity crisis.They have had more than 60 governments in the last sixty years.Their rich history is their identity but uniting behind reasonable leaders not so much.Too bad they are impressed by Putin Inc. but then just now,at this very moment, I would not suggest they emulate our president.
13
"Under Trump, we’re letting alliances that we once held dear slip through our fingers, and we’re cavalierly throwing others away." That's highly inaccurate, and in fact, these geopolitical blunders are the product of liberalism failing as an ideology. We're witnessing a political shift not only in this country, but across the world. If you look at Generation Z (those who were born in 1995 and after), they're much more conservative than millennials.
11
Not liberalism but Neoliberalism.
Don’t despair about the Italians. For them, life isn’t politics and politicians come and go. Somehow, they always land on their feet and live their lives with a kind of enjoyment that Americans find difficult to comprehend.
Viva Italia.
109
Polititians do not come and go in Italy. They are there to stay for life. As in the States, Russia has steered the italian opinion to obtain the result it wanted: unti European government with deep connections (money) with Russia.
yes! the same is true for the greeks as well...two ancient peoples who know how to enjoy living...
Perhaps Italy doesn't necessarily think Russia is better than the U.S., just a lesser of two evils. If Italy truly believes that "It’s a different Europe from when you were here in 2004" according to Maurizio Molinari, then a good part of the blame is not solely on Trump since he didn't take office until 2017. That's a pretty refreshing viewpoint to consider. I am so enmeshed with all of the problems surrounding Trump since he took office, I never took the time to think of how other countries viewed him or even the United States in the last decade and a half.
8
@Marge Keller: Molinari's statement to Bruni that "It’s a different Europe from when you were here in 2004" does not necessarily imply that Europe changed dramatically a decade and a half ago. Nor does it imply that this change is necessarily due in large part to US politics.
1
The music from Italy in Moscow's ears these days must be, truly, a grandiose symphony.
And the music from America under Trump: dissonance, for sure.
Italian-Americans aren't much of a tribe anymore. Generally, we are more American than Italian--overall, our political voices waned perhaps a half-century ago while our cultural roots battled with assimilation. Today, we focus more on our hyphenization than on our roots.
But culturally and politically, we pay attention to Italy, and there's the emotional tug of history and presentism--rationally or irrationally, it's hard not to be on board with disgust for Trump and the search for alternatives.
12
"Today, we focus more on our hyphenization than on our roots."
Perhaps you do. The rest of us are Americans and couldn't care less what happens to some European country our grandparents left 125 years ago. This hyphenization combining some other country with American dilutes or divides our allegiance to America. How many people today still vote for some politician because his grandparents came here from the same country as ours because they think that's all that has to be considered? A bowl of spaghetti is just that, spaghetti not a reminder of where my family came from.
It is true that the EU, especially with the influence of Germany, were heavy-handed with austerity tactics against Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain -- collectively known by the terrible acronym 'PIGS.' In order to gain entrance, they had to juggle their books, leading to huge debt crises when economies slowed. Italy has remained stagnant with a youth unemployment rate that is excessively high.
I taught there for nearly 15 years in my ELL lab serving challenged and non-challenged learners. My daughter attended middle and high school there. Let's look at education, let's consider the lack of political discussion in schools in general, an absence of teaching critical thinking skills and a lack of motivation among young people to vote and a largely mysogynistic culture that represses a significant segment of the society, women.
Hats off to the Italian Coast Guard who saved thousands of people in horrific conditions crossing from terrible circumstances and to the people in places such as Lampadusa who have struggled to save them and the relief agencies that have worked heroically as well to help them. But please! The romance of Italy has long been over and we need to own up to the corruption and inherent social ills that have driven this latest chaotic vote. We can work ourselves out of our quagmire in America with focused elections. Italians, not so much. There has to be a sea change in investment in education and young people and government reform to fight this.
30
Italy never had to apply to enter the European Union. In 1957, six core states founded the EU's predecessor, the European Economic Community (Belgium, France, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands and West Germany). Italy was also a founding member in 1949 of the Council of Europe.
6
Italy has many wonderful things to recommend it -- we all love those things. But, corruption, and economics have plagued its economy for decades. False accounting is rampant and acknowledged. True, Italy was a founding member of the precursor to the EU, but masking finances is a common practice of politicians and other prominent institutions. The tax system is unwieldy and bribery common. And, it is true that the EU itself, has struggled with the flood of desperate immigrants, further fraying social programs. Again, the political system is divisive and divided and the plethora of political parties and factions further creates to the instability and indecisiveness.
Venice, my beloved adopted city, changed from year to year -- loss of local business, growth of unchecked tourism that led to a significant change in the 'face' of local businesses. We are struggling through a terrible time all over with the effects of war, disenfranchisement and desperation.
In October of last year Laura Boldrini of the Italian Lower House of Parliament spearheaded a campaign to have high school students instructed in recognizing fake news. This has been implemented now in over 8,000 schools across Italy. Also I know that in the Italian school curriculum they are introduced to philosophy in high school. I had take philosophy at University in North America. I don’t see how you can claim that the schools don’t address critical thinking. Also you write that you taught in Italy for 15 years. Why stay in a country that as you write is so corrupt and not working properly. It seems that you were happy to have your daughter exposed to such a system of schooling.
2
"Italy Has Dumped America. For Russia."
That's no more bizarre than the occupant of the White House dumping America for Russia.
304
"Can they look to Moscow for guidance and inspiration without ending up under that country’s thumb?"
That depends on the meaning of "guidance and inspiration."
Giving control to others won't turn out well. It didn't when Americans grabbed that in many places, and certainly not when Soviets did.
As for the other meaning of inspiration, they are looking beyond just Russia to China's success, and the more controlled economies of some "Western" places like Singapore and the Asian Tigers.
That is a mistake, but it has a momentary appeal. The longer term strengths of innovation and change that come with freedom don't always shine with the same brightness of light at all times.
4
Closer to home Trump is driving Panama into China's arms as he smarts over losing his hotel. Since Trump became president, China and Panama established diplomatic relations, a first since WWII. China is already the second largest user of the Panama Canals (the original built by the US more than a century ago and the new one built by Panama nearly two years ago). China now seeks to make huge investments in transportation (new subway lines) and infrastructure projects (new bridge over the canals). Trump should remember why Teddy Roosevelt built the original canal--because he had the 2 greatest navies in the world, but it made a lot more sense to him to have the 1 greatest navy in the world.
24
When the Panama Canal was opened in 1914, the United States had the third largest navy, behind Great Britain and Germany. Granted, it was strategically valuable to connect the Atlantic and Pacific navies, but that did not make America’s navy the greatest in the world. Not by a long shot.
The Italy I love as an Italian-American is the Italy that is rich in art and architecture, passion and vibrancy, close family ties, awe-inspiring vistas, and food, glorious food! But it is also a country with too much poverty still, a mix of political apathy and discouragement, an active underground, and historically Kafkaesque, chaotic, and at times corrupt governing practices. It was ripe for this latest veering toward the ultra-right. I am not defending it, believe me. On the contrary I am saddened for the people of my grandparents' land.
But Italians are Italians. They will rebel if their politics goes contrary to their identity as a culture. They are not known to be a people who "sit back and take it." Give it a few years, and most likely their present paradigm will shift. And, perhaps, we, all Americans, can come to our senses and lead by example in shedding this "Trumpism" we now barely endure. Italians are watching us, too, as well as Mother Russia, as Mr. Bruni writes.
87
Italy had been many things between 1944 and 2004 too. America had been dominant in Italy for all that time, but for much of it they teetered on "going communist" and harbored lots of bad feelings.
Of course before that they were Fascist, some or all under Mussolini for over 20 years.
Before that Italian immigrants had flowed to the US and its "streets of gold."
It has been all over the place. I wonder if there is any other country that has had a more complicated, up and down, relationship with the US.
13
"The Five Star Movement and the League drew the support of Italians who, like Trump’s voters in the United States, felt shortchanged by policies that had enriched elites. They had soured on the status quo, which was an outward-oriented America in partnership with an empowered European Union. They craved something else." This passage says it all. The rest of Bruni's column is redundant.
12
"The Five Star Movement and the League drew the support of Italians who, like Trump’s voters in the United States, felt shortchanged by policies that had enriched elites.''
spazzatura! sciocchezze!! stupidaggini!!! robaccia!!!!
The Five Star Movement and the League drew the support of Italians who, like Trump’s voters in the United States really don't want to see ''so many brown or black people'' when they go out.
-(and isn't that really... SAD?)
43
It is not just in Italy and America that citizens are seeking to end the massive immigration that has overwhelmed social services and placed a greater burden on taxpaying citizens. You really should look at the direction many elections in Europe are taking. Even Mother Merkel only received 38% of the vote.
3
Depends on how you choose to look at it. No country tolerates an unauthorized influx of masses of people whether "brown or black" or vanilla that disrupts or further disrupts basic quality of life. They have a right to expect their government to do what is appropriate for the country. To turn this into a bias diatribe is nonsensical.
1
While it’s true that right wing parties have gained more votes than previous elections in some EU countries, let’s ask---in which world democracy has a far right wing extremist party been able to actually dominate the 3 branches of govt and most states? The USA.
And our right wing GOP, unlike EU rw parties, attacks American citizens’ basic protections---health care, social security and Medicare. (See the contrast with France’s Le Pen on that.)
And which democracy turns its elections over to their wealthiest donors for funding? Whose high Court equates big money with 1st Amend Free Speech? So that the limits of solutions ---what’s on or off the table---- are set by the richest donors---in taxes, govt regulations, jobs policy, health care, gun laws, etc. The USA.
In which democracy do the big media conglomerates profit hugely from the campaign ads that flood the voters---our biggest campaign expense, needing mega donor money to subsidize? The USA.
Wikipedia---in elections--- “Many EU nations don’t permit paid-for TV or radio advertising for fear that wealthy groups will gain control of airtime, MAKING FAIR PLAY IMPOSSIBLE AND DISTORTING THE POLITICAL DEBATE IN THE PROCESS.” Wow, imagine that.
Campaign finance is avoided by US news media, and NYT columnists, even though it poisons politics and limits solutions. Pundits must start to stick their necks out and grapple with how this distorts our political debates, even as we take pride in US ‘free speech’.
410
Meredith,
Pundits can't do it all when so many of our fellow citizens are engaged in a vicious and apparently fun race to the bottom.
A nice expose on the Koch Brothers would be a good place to start except for the fact that people don't seem to value their intellect or independence anymore.
19
Never happen. For the reason you state: it's money in their wallets. That cat is out of the bag. The Europeans never let it get started, so they're not faced with the impossible task of reeling it back in.
1
The left wing party attacks basic individual rights, like the second amendment. Unless you think the Bill of Rights doesn’t matter?
This has all been brought about by the fake news leftist press and the ultra left wing of the Democratic Party. Trump despite his rhetoric is being successful. North Korea now and then our infrastructure among other triumphs. Illegal immigration has been allowed to fester on now it is a major problem. Trump will fix that and we can then focus on being the America we all love. The Dems are looking to give the illegals the right to vote so they can gain power. Here we go again....
9
Just because Trump is to meet with the North Korean leader doesn't mean he'll achieve a nuclear free promise. The infrastructure will be paid for by our states with very limited federal dollars going toward fixing it.
We are the America we all love! Believe it or not the vast majority (who voted Democratic) don't think that there is basely anything wrong with America.
A lot of these dissatisfied people are the result of their own poor choices.
Meredith from New York listed all the things that we could do to improve our government But I'd like to add one more to her list
WE NEED to have a legal holiday for our voting day or have it on a Sunday. I think Tuesday is used to prevent more people having an easy time to go to the polls.
41
@Dan Locker: "North Korea now and then our infrastructure among other triumphs."
Triumphs? Name one success of this administration so far.
Kim Jong-un is playing Trump to bolster North Korea's legitimacy; he has everything to gain and Trump a great deal to lose. Several White House insiders don't even believe the meeting will take place. As for our rotting infrastructure, Trump is too busy alienating our allies and dismantling health care, environmental safety regulations, and Social Security to care. Don't count your chickens.
4
And in that regard, how about on the night of a Presidential election, the media doesn't report the results until after all the polls have closed. That way the voters in the West won't be influenced by what's taken place in the East. That would ensure a more reasonable turnout as if the candidate one person wants is already on a vote-getting roll, why bother an go to the polls? Similarly, if said candidate isn't the one you want, and you feel you vote would just be a vote thrown away like a drop in a tsunami, and won't go either, our Democratic interests aren't being served either.
1
The sad fact is, Trump's nationalist campaign gave permission to Europeans and others to vote for right wing populists.
This is true even as Donald himself is the subject of ridicule and derision. He is a bomb rolling around on the deck of the ship.
Putin would appeal to authoritarian personalities -- curiously right or left -- because this generation of Earth has outlived the haunting memories of the World War.
Notice Donald has nothing but scorn for American political leaders, past and present. But he admires Putin, Duterete, Erdogan, and even Kim.
The world needs America back in the driver's seat. We must vote Republicans out of office and show Donald the door. Only then will voters here and around the world again believe in enlightened democracy.
43
"The sad fact is, Trump's nationalist campaign gave permission to Europeans and others to vote for right wing populists. "
Really?
When was the Brexit vote?
Also, the idea that any political campaign in the US gives "permission" for people in other countries to vote a certain way is arrogant beyond belief.
4
Le Pen rose to prominence, Hofer received almost 50% of the Austrian vote and BREXIT occurred BEFORE Trump was elected, so your argument seems rather flawed.
2
Sorry, this column just doesn't add up. The Italians dislike Trump, but are enamored of Putin? Who is Trump's role model?
Sanctions? Let them drift to Russia. Make sure they look up Russia's per capita GDP numbers first though. The plutocratic billionaires in Moscow can only buy so much provolone and pasta sauce. Barring a change in circumstances, most Russians can barely afford to buy cheap vodka and potatoes these days. I'd say that could change if oil prices surge, but that wealthy mostly goes to the billionaires anyways.
Calling Russia, or China, a communist country these days is a bit of a stretch. Forbes just released their annual list of billionaires. The US is on top, China is right behind us. Russia is third. Marx and Lenin might have liked a good expensive cigar after a hard day's work, but surely both are rolling over in their graves seeing what has become of "communism."
The real joke with China and Russia is that we allow their billionaires to park their money over here while they trample us in geopolitics. I mean there are penthouses with killer views of Central Park that need to be sold, even if they're unoccupied.
How many Italian-Russians are there, versus those of Italian heritage living in America and Western Europe? Trump aside, I say to all those countries flirting with Russia and unhappy with America, go ahead and defect. Think carefully though. Maybe there will be another Iron Curtain and you'll be stuck on the wrong side, again. Arrivederci.
44
The column doesn't add because its easier to do a 'Eek! Putin/Russians are to blame!' then to admit that the liberal orthodoxy of open borders and 'EU is wonderful!' got things to this point.
Putin isn't to blame. There is no great Russian conspiracy with bots getting inside of people's heads to change their viewpoints because of tiny article no one reads. Facebook, at the behest of the British Parliament, twice did a survey and found that there were no 'waves' of Russian bots in the runup to the Brexit vote. They've been told by Parliament, twice, go back and find some.
One Facebook's execs got in trouble for speaking the truth: Most of the ads that Russians bought in 2016 were bought AFTER the elections so no one saw them.
Putin is a great scapegoat for when you lose an election.
Entertainers who act to be politicians won elections both in Italy and in the U.S. (the winning party in Italy is founded by a TV entertainer, Mr. Beppe Grillo; Mr. Trump who won the U.S. elections was a TV entertainer). Indeed those results from both countries seem to look stranger than fiction to most of us, however also manifesting a unique similarity between the two. In that respect, if I may, I would like to oppose the argument put forward in this article; it seems Italy is still following the U.S.'s footsteps -in a strange way!
10
''it seems Italy is still following the U.S.'s footsteps -in a strange way!''
You mean America had followed Italy by erecting somebody who has a major ''hair problem'' and who loves ''Bunga Bunga'' as ''President''? and now as America has a President who loves ''Bunga Bunga'' and has a major ''hair problem'' Italy has elected somebody who has wonderful ''natural (white) hair''?
7
Madonna mia?
''Italy has Dumped America for Putin''?!!
I'm sitting with Paolo in bed and HE seldom has heart something crazier... MA - everything you wrote about what Italians think about the Craziest Man on Earth -(guess who?)
is
TRUE!
7
It’s a temporary shift of dalliances and preferences. After all, if you want to choose a role model that best suits your REAL soul, do you choose one whose poverty rate is soaring (yet again), that persecutes gays and (still) Jews, whose institutional framework ranks 133 out of 144 in the world (as per the World Economic Forum), where there is NEVER any doubt about an election’s outcome, where if tomorrow oil and gas were replaced by cold fusion, three-quarters of the population would starve within two weeks, and whose primary foreign concerns were Ukraine and Syria? Or do you choose one whose president throws parties that make Silvio Berlusconi’s look like wakes?
That is, unless you’re looking for a reliable supplier for polonium-210 – keeping in mind that questionable culinary additions were long a part of Italian history.
Then again, Europe generally, not just Italy, is a little crazy these days since Angela Merkel’s statement that Europe might need to start thinking of ways to defend ITSELF – after over 70 years of being largely defended by us, on our dime. That means less money for free cheese and (a lot) more money for guns and soldiers. If you’re heavily dependent on free mozzarella, THAT frightening prospect could be chilling. Why not instead just sidle up to the bear, even if it means that you occasionally need to expel your gays and Jews?
And, then … there was the draw of Benito Mussolini, who made the trains run on time (which they haven’t since).
12
One of the good things about Italy is that if you don’t like what you see in its politics, just wait a couple of years: they’re bound to change dramatically.
7
Mr. Luettgen, I'm not sure how much time you have spent in Italy, but I lived in Naples two and a half years 50 years ago when my husband was in the military, and the trains were just fine. They were fine when I went back in 1975, and their rail and other forms of transportation when I went back in 2016 to spend some time in the north were excellent. Would that the Pugent Sound had been as on top of a region-wide transit system as good as what we saw in Northern Italy. This might seem a small thing to quibble about, but when you make statements like the trains don't run on time, which is a common myth, it makes one wonder what else you claim to know that you don't. That being said, I am very uneasy about the latest politics in Italy, but no more uneasy than I am about what's happening here. If we get in another major war, who in the world will stand with us give the leadership that we have now?
83
''It’s a temporary shift of dalliances and preferences''
Impossible! -
no Italian
no German
actually no European will ever forget -(or forgive) what America did to herself by erecting VON CLOWNSTICK!!
35
I used to be skeptical about some aspects of U.S. geopolitical policies.
But now with all the talk about a Trump-Putin axis, I take back all the critical thoughts I used to have.
2
According to the PEW Research Center:
1. 60% of Italians stated "refugees will increase the likelihood of terrorism"
2. 65% of Italians agreed with the statement that the "large number of refugees leaving Iraq and Syria is a major threat to their county"
3. 53% of Italians stated that "an increasing number of people of many different races, ethnic groups and nationalities in our country makes this country a worse place", and only 18% of Italians felt it would make it a better place.
4. 77% of Italians disapproved "of the way the European Union" was "dealing with the refugee issue"
However, the OP-ED concluded that Italian's elected pro-Russian and anti-American politicians because Trump isn’t promoting "free markets, open borders," and "humanitarian aid" and his perceived "reliability". Accord to PEW, it seems the primary reason Italians drifted politically from the United States was because of its advocacy for open borders. It so happens that on 9-20-16 President Barack Obama gave a moralizing sermon on 9-20-16, that developed countries were having their "humanity" tested, in how they responded to the refugee crises. Having the most powerful leader on earth conditions your qualification as "human" on how closely you agree with their resettlement policy, surely didn't endear the Italian electorate towards the United States. Especially when the Italian electorate strongly opposed refugee resettlement.
40
According to the PEW Research Center:
1. 60% of Italians stated "refugees will increase the likelihood of terrorism"
2. 65% of Italians agreed with the statement that the "large number of refugees leaving Iraq and Syria is a major threat to their county"
3. 53% of Italians stated that "an increasing number of people of many different races, ethnic groups and nationalities in our country makes this country a worse place", and only 18% of Italians felt it would make it a better place.
4. 77% of Italians disapproved "of the way the European Union" was "dealing with the refugee issue"
However, the OP-ED concluded that Italians elected pro-Russian and anti-American politicians because Trump isn’t promoting "free markets, open borders," and "humanitarian aid" and his perceived "reliability". According to PEW, it seems the primary reason Italians drifted politically from the United States was because of its advocacy for open borders. It so happens that President Barack Obama gave a moralizing sermon on 9-20-16, that developed countries were having their "humanity" tested, in how they responded to the refugee crises. Having the most powerful leader on earth condition your qualification as "human" on how closely you agree with their resettlement policy, surely didn't endear the Italian electorate towards the United States. Especially when the Italian electorate strongly opposed refugee resettlement.
7
Totally agree and I think this will be reflected in the upcoming midterm elections--to the surprise--again-- of many pollsters and pundits. While people may loathe Trump the man, they are very supportive of the need to end unlimited immigration, sanctuary cities, public schools where english has become the second language, and the massive social and economic costs and dislocations associated with rapid, outsized immigration.
1
This is what happens when a country elects a certified idiot as its president. There are international consequences to voting for a man who wears his stupidity like a clown suit. Other people think it’s weird, even if a large part of our country thinks that the emperor’s new clothes are just fine.
Italy’s got its own problems, and they don’t have the time or the inclination to figure out what our president is talking about, what he’s doing and why he’s doing it. Engaging with the world in a rational and constructive way takes effort. And our dear leader is not up to the task.
It’s only been a year since he’s been in office, and already there is a change in the way other countries look at us. We though Bush was bad, and he certainly buried us in a hole from which it took Barack Obama eight years to dig us out. But there was a sort of malevolent energy in Bush and Cheney that, although it was evil, was calculated. There was method to their madness.
Now it’s just bizarre and inappropriate statements, incoherent blather and a consistent kind of inconsistency that seems disconnected from reality. He’s not evil. He’s just stupid. He looks for praise when he hasn’t done anything praiseworthy. He’s likely to insult foreign leaders through ignorance or a lack of awareness that is unbecoming of an American president.
But he should be pleased that his good pal Putin is making inroads in Italy. Ciao, Italia.
243
"There’s also precedent for an Italy-Russia affinity. Italy was once home to the largest Communist Party outside of the Soviet Union, and the former Italian prime minister Silvio Berlusconi, who still leads the center-right Forza Italia party, has long seemed to feel about Putin the way I do about prosciutto."
Sadly, I know. I worked in Milan for 10 years, right out of college. Yes, the Communist party was strong, but it really was more of a worker's party versus a soviet one.
But like you, I find Italy's Putin affinity pretty sad, showing the changing ages of the Italian people. Those who loved Americans most were those liberated by WWII soldiers.
Now even baby boomers are dying off, and the younger generations lack historical perspective. Not that I blame them: of course they detest the self-indulgent Donald Trump whose changing positions make a donna mobile seem staid.
But the Italy I know, and love, is too free-wheeling and passionate to settle for autocracy long term. Oh, they may flirt with Putin, but I doubt they'd want to marry him.
That said, if they aren't careful, they could end up with a shot-gun wedding.
171
Frank says:
"The Five Star Movement and the League drew the support of Italians who, like Trump’s voters in the United States, felt shortchanged by policies that had enriched elites. They had soured on the status quo, which was an outward-oriented America in partnership with an empowered European Union. They craved something else."
which is the crux of the matter, not just in Italy - elites in the U.S. were saved/bailed out from the 2008 bankster heist by the full faith/credit of Jane/Joe Sixpack's U.S. Treasury; their repayment/acknowledgement was to be forgotten/left in the dust (often with their opioids), ridiculed and even scorned.
Partly, this was due to the failure to prosecute elites by Obama's DOJ, mostly it's the fault of GOP'ers who pretend socializing capitalism's bail-outs/zealously privatizing capitalism's spoils are justified by Darwinism, and constitute best practices, as openly bragged by John Boehner Sept. 15 2011, in his 'capital strike' speech:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-s-mcelvaine/capital-strike_b_96540...
and:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/16/us/politics/boehner-affirms-no-tax-inc...
Now that 'populism' resulting from obstructionist GOPers' refusal to invest in infrastructure, education, and healthcare has been kidnapped by U.S. Rightists, elites should pull out their history texts for a quick tutorial on what next ensues.
68
To a certain extent, Italy has a convenient excuse: it's the first (if not the final) destination for so many African political and economic refugees who've been making their way across the Mediterranean to a better life in Europe. They've got it far worse than we do here in the U.S. and worse than most other Europeans do (how many of those "illegals" have been seeking refuge in Russia?). Needless to say, Italy- like other European nations- spent so much time colonizing Africa and ransacking the natural resources of that continent that, to a great extent, it's fitting that illegal immigration is now taking its toll. Even so, the situation needs to be reversed, and that means that all of Europe (INCLUDING Russia) needs to provide economic assistance to the region it previously exploited. Same goes for the U.S. and Latin America, by the way.
114
Hi Stu. Few thoughts in response. The statute of limitations on European Colonialism has run out. EU governments and energy companies are responsible partners today in northern and sub-Saharan Africa. Such arguments are a smokescreen, useful for the US and its allies for their blatant failure in Africa. The US legacy is characterized by sitting on the sidelines during massive political upheaval and walking away from the aftermath of destabilizing military actions. Now that the region is in chaos - the US and others are simply escaping responsibility. This is not Italy's mess. One doesn't have to look farther than the Arab Spring and NATO's Libyan mission as the originating forces opening the door to mass illegal migration. Italy has assumed its role in sharing of the costs of participation - 600,000 migrants is enough. There's no sign the other participants in NATO's Libyan action among them: US, Britain, France, Turkey, Denmark, Belgium, Spain, Sweden and Canada are stepping in to stabilize or improve the humanitarian conditions in the Mediterranean. Conversely, they are making it worse: its US, UK, Spanish, German, French and Dutch NGO's that are ferrying migrants from waters off Libya's coast. Delivering desperation onto the shores of Lampedusa Island. Here's what I say, if a non-Italian NGO picks up migrants in International waters, those persons become the charge of the flag of that vessel. Let's see how long the Africa to Europe transfer continues.
33
Syrians and Iraqis should be able to stay in Syria and Iraq and work to develop those countries. They should not have to be refugees. But no one knows how to make that happen, even if we were willing to spend money or fund armies. As far as those fleeing the desertification of the southern Sahara, no one knows what to do about that or them, either. And as ocean levels rise, they will be joined by millions who are flooded out. The flooded-out refugees from Micronesia are being resettled, but there are only a few of them.
We are headed for a population crash, and most of our religious leaders are still encouraging procreation. The problem is worldwide, but if one thing is sure, it is that the solution wont be.
14
I find it ironic that citizens of an extremely wealthy oil superpower--namely Nigeria--are drowning in the Mediterranean desperately trying to get into a Europe with a frightening level of un- and under-emplopment. You may find it "fitting that illegal immigration is now taking its toll" but tired references to colonialism are irrelevant, especially when considering other nations that have been colonized have effectively exploiting the benefits of their natural resources. I always follow the money and where has the money from African oil wealth gone?
6