Eastern Ukraine all over again. Those are not Russians in Syria. They might be wearing our uniforms (minus the flag) and carrying our equipment but they are not Russian.
Vladimer is in the middle of an election. He cannot be seen losing a battle anywhere.
Those are not Russians in Syria, maybe rogue Russians?
More to the point they lost a fire fight.
2
Oh, 'The Arab Spring' where did it go?
Had so much promise then Egyptians, over estimating their win, did not just go after a couple of Generals - they went after all the Officers.
Big mistake.
Tunisia seeing an opening continues to try and juggle the two factions.
Syria to thought this 'Arab Spring' was an opportunity to rid itself of Assad.
Syrian factions have done one thing. Assad is a mere ghost of himself when it comes to influencing anything.
“No one wants to take steps that will do irreparable damage to the already broken Russia-U.S. relations.”
Then perhaps stop messing with our elections.
4
Now Russia is beginning to see it goes both ways......
3
Considering they are in that country to support pure evil in the form of Bashar al-Assad, they deserve everything they get.
1
Our proxy,Israel, is already involved.
2
Like Trump's state department fail, Putin sounds happy these guys are off his payroll.
Syria will turn out to be Russia's new Afghanistan, like America's Viet Nam. Claiming "plausible deniability" for deaths of Russian "little green men" (Wagner mercenaries) will be more difficult as casualties pile up. If Russia and Syria think they are going to wipe out the Kurds occupying northeast Syria, they are in for a long, protracted, and dangerous fight. If Russia was smart, they would learn from the lessons of Afghanistan and pull out of Syria. Propping up Assad and cozying up to Iran and Hezbollah will backfire on them. Additionally, the Russian people will become tired and outraged at the thought and sight of Russians coming home in body bags while their government denies Russians are fighting on the front lines of this hopeless conflict.
3
Like the stock market, Russia’s military adventurism was overdue for a correction. It got away with Georgia, Crimea and eastern Ukraine with their special forces in tee shirts and jeans. In Syria they’re headed for a margin call that they probably can’t pay. These combatant deaths, though shocking in number, are just the interest on the debt.
2
In every war, there are casualties; this one is no exception.
The party bombed by the Yanks were a militia, not Russian special ops, so you can keep your schadenfreude in check.
6
How will the left try to spin this as somehow proving collusion between Trump and Russia?
3
Mr. Green, when I read "the left" I felt you meant the anti-imperialist, anti neo-liberal left. I felt offended. Then I saw you meant the Democratic Party.
3
As has been said before by many, I'm sure that, as a country, we'd be a lot less willing to send troops all over the world to fight and die, if our country's leaders had their children serving in our armed forces.
4
Another article seeking to normalize and legitimize the basic concept that if the West thinks it is in its own best interests to do so, the West has the right to overthrow governments and impose its own regimes in their place. If Russian or another country do this, it is a blatant act of aggression.
The Syrian military, having largely succeeded in defeating ISIS, is now pushing to reclaim the lucrative oil fields east of Deir-ez-Zor (at least get the spelling right). The American "Coalition" has marked the Euphrates as a deconfliction zone and has sold that in the Western media as a consensus position where it is in fact a unilateral imposition made during their occupation of Syrian land.
So despite the defeat of ISIS, there remains conflict over the spoils - or would be spoils - of war.
Therefore America, as usual, unilaterally declared that it would retain an open-ended presence in the region, particularly in the NE Syria/Iraqi border, under the pretense of training/supporting a cross-border security force staffed with Kurdish forces and the remnants of its covertly backed Islamist militias.
Obviously, against all international law, as per usual.
One can only hope that - even with the best warmongering will in the world - the moment for massive Western destabilization and imperial adventurism has passed.
Yet, one thing's clear: the US will continue to play an invidious role, and it's up to Americans to reign in Trump, his generals and their bipartisan enablers in Congress.
5
Excellent comment, Chris. The only problem is that that imperial role is not limited to Trump.
4
Goody, goody for Donald Trump.. He will get his very own war of economic stimulus.
1
Interesting that Russia continues to deploy "volunteers" and mercenaries in Syria. Who is paying them?
2
Obviously the Russian state. They are 'contractors' just like those the Yanks employ everywhere, where the sun doesn't shine.
3
Vlday wanted to meddle some more, but assumed the outcome would be different? It's a wonder his foolish fly by's have not resulted in similar pointless deaths.
"The attack occurred in the vicinity of Deir al-Zour, a strategic, oil-rich territory that is coveted by the Syrians."
These oil fields belong to the Syrian people, not to the Kurds and not to the US!
There will be no avoiding a war between the US and Syria unless the US finally leaves Syria. The US has no legal justification to be inside Syria. It is an act of unprovoked aggression by the US. Nor has the US any business to decide what should be done in the Kurdish areas. The Kurds were, and will be again, an autonomy inside the Syrian state. That is the only way peace can be achieved. And the US has to get out. Might does not make right. It makes for a rogue nation. And that is all that is left of the USA.
To all US and citizens and governments of the world: divest from US treasuries. Once the US cannot finance its debt and wars anymore, they will get more reasonable very fast. And it is the only way the world can contain rogue nation USA.
5
What if, from bad luck, 200 American soldiers had been kllled by these so-called Russian "mercenaries"?
Have the unofficial Russian contacts with Trump, the Trump family, and Trump acolytes in his administration and campaign resulted in security being compromised in any way that might have put American troops in danger?
Does the Trump Administration's indifferent behavior and phlegmatic responses on issues like the enforcement of Russian sanctions in any way embolden the Russians to attempt such risky attacks that endanger American forces?
Do Russian actions have to result in some of our young people serving in the military coming home to their Congressional districts in body bags before Republicans in Congress realize the consequences of their complicity in Trump's coverup of his Russian activites and possible treason?
Even Bannon realized what was going on...
3
Trying to explain what happens in the world in terms of what Trump does or does not do, does not permit understanding anything.
2
Anyone who fights in combat is a soldier , whether mercenary or otherwise . Putin has had his ghost army fighting in Syria just as he has in Eastern Ukraine , no markings , insignia , trying to pass as militia. Airstrike people , not man to man combat involved . Russian jets have been and are carrying out airstrikes , over Syria( would not exactly call them mercenaries) one was just shot down a few days ago. So yeah , I would say they're military.
1
A militia and a mercenary is not the same. The first is comprised of semi-regular locals; the second of foreigners.
1
This axis of evil policy that put Syria on the spotlight began with W, lest we forget. Obama continued that policy, turning the only secular Arab country, and a predictable enemy of Israel, into a zone of chaos. Trump comes in and has done little to positively affect the situation, after suggesting during his campaign that Assad could stay.
It is quite clear that we don't have a cohesive strategy and are at the mercy of Saudi Arabia (Podesta emails on wiki confirm we knew the Saudis funded ISIS), and Israel, doing as they ask us, for their benefit. And, doing things with no measurable benefit for the US tax payers, not to mention no consideration for the humanitarian crisis we have caused that has displaced millions, triggering refugee crises globally.
Imagine if another country was unhappy with our leadership and decided to send troops, bomb our cities, look the other way as their allies funded terrorists, and broke up the country into various, independent and rival controlled areas. And then, imagine Canadians and Mexicans refusing to harbor our war refugees in. That is what has happened.
19
Great comment. Thank you for posting it.
5
100% correct. Obama and Clinton have the blood of thousands on their hands. They are responsible for the loss of this secular society which protected the rights of women and educated children.
2
When has Russia ever downplayed anything?
Who thinks this is OK because Trump and Putin are friends?
3
We'll see if Trump ever tweets anything about it. Or would he rather just belittle Gold Star parents?
Who thinks W's warm look into Putin's eyes, or Hillary's Russian reset button, or Reagan's deal with Iran, are very different than Trump's campaign overtures toward Russia?
1
because if they say they had troops instead of mercs/vacationers it would be impossible to back down. They would lose in a non nuclear confrontation, Russia today is no where near as capable as they were at the height of the cold war.
1
The tangle of alliances and implied promises to defend certain forces on the ground by greater powers (US and Russia) has all the makings of a wider conflagration.
Kurds called in the airstrike, American planes responded, Russians and Syrians died. Meanwhile Turkey is anxious about the US-Kurd relations encroaching on their border.
Throw in Israel and Iran and Syriah and Hezbollah and you get something approaching the Balkan situation right before WW1 when all sides thought the other would blink first.
And, to top it all off, it's more or less our fault going back to Dubya and Co. needing to find a country to bomb to put on a PR and medica spectacle blitz following the 9/11 attacks.
15
I think you are right. This story needs to be given a lot of attention, the situation is very dicey.
2
Mercenaries are hired killers. They don‘t deserve an ounce of pity.
9
And who is paying them?
2
America is about to get into another disastrous war for the sake of Israeli Likudniks. This is shown by the pending appointment of Dick Cheney's Neo-Con advisor John Hannah as Syrian Envoy by Trump, who complained about the Iraq War but has been captured by pro-Likud domestic forces yet again.
13
Wow, dozens of Russians killed by the military whose commander in chief was hand picked by Vladimir Putin. Whoda thunkit? Just another nail in the coffin of the Russians conspiring with Trump to win the election. But this obvious little tidbit will be lost upon the left wing haters including the people who produce this very newspaper.
9
Did you read a little further, about how both the Russians and Trump's "administration" have a common interest in seeing this story go away? If that's not collusion, I don't know what is.
1
Good try. Trump admires our military folks, and has given them a long leash. I don't think he can get away with telling Mattis to go easy on the Russians. And our military men are not in hock to to laundered Russian cash. The only coffin being nailed is Trump's. Wait for Mueller time, dude. I'm sure you'll enjoy it.
Rob
Or try this argument:
Trump obviously doesn't mind sacrificing a few (tens of thousands of) American lives to grab more cash for himself, and to keep himself and his party in power.
He literally demands chances to do so on a weekly basis.
Knowing, as you obviously do, that Trump is morally superior to every other leader on the planet, and certainly better than Mr. Putin, regardless of what a swell guy he has shown himself to be, how hard is it to imagine Putin would also be willing to invest a few dozen meaningless Russian lives to achieve his political goals, too?
And we know they're meaningless lives because they're 'losers'. If they're worth anything at all, why would they be wasting their lives in the army?
But, no, I think you're right.
I think the only people experiencing true jubilation here are American Psycho-Evangelicals now certainly scheduling an endless round of bake sales and megachurch-basement caviar pot-lucks to celebrate that (at long last, Lord) they have burgeoning war in the middle east and they have finally forced Jesus to come back, to crush and mangle and burn their enemies, and take Evangelicals home where they will live out eternity with...each other?
Wait... No, God, just wait a minute here...
1
So, now the US is killing Russian citizens. Are we are supposed to believe this is all about keeping us safe from terrorists? The US military is drunk on the trillions of dollars Congress throws at it so carelessly.
12
I don't think we can pin this on "the military", Trump turned control of operations over to particular generals, which disintegrates a lot of accountability in the chain of command and today, Russia, the USA, and others paid the price. And since being Trump means never having to say you are sorry, we have to pretend, like we're watching perfection in Presidents in action.
Try reading it once more: "Much about the attack and the associated casualties has been obscured in the fog of war. For reasons that remain unclear, Syrian government troops and some Russian nationals appear to have attacked a [US-led] coalition position, near Al Tabiyeh, Syria."
@ Cord , not exactly Russian citizens but Russian military , although the Kremlin claims they were mercenaries . No secret we carry on airstrikes and back a side just like the Russians back Assad .
If you get the idea of Syria on a map out of your mind you will have a better derstanding of what is happening in the land formally known as Syria. It’s land and countries/political groups are fighting to gain control of it. Mostly that land is a vital transit rout for oil/gas from Qatar, Iraq, Iran. He who controls the transit route collects the tolls. Turkey has it’s own agenda trying to prevent the Kurds from infecting the Ottoman bloodline. There is no more Syria like the map image, it’s more like the Wild West. Bigger guns but just as bloody.
7
The US is in a problem with respect to Qatar who now participates in a joint venture with the Iranians to exploit the South Pars field. But the US is more concerned to prevent a land route from China to the Mediterranean - an ancient Silk Road. That is why it is still in Syria where it has no legal business. The route from Iran to Lebanon always existed and the US will not succeed in cutting it off as it can go via southern Iraq which is Shiite. The Iraqi government is friendly with both Iran and Syria. So to cut off China is really the prime importance. That is what the US uses the Kurds for and why it wanted to establish a Kurdish state in north eastern Syria. That however clashes with Turkey who wants none of that as the Kurds in Syria are related to the Kurds inside Turkey and any Kurdish state would want to expand into Turkey and Iran.
The only hope for peace really comes from Putin and the talks in Astana and Sochi. If these groups can find a solution they can all agree with, the US will be the odd man out and will have to leave. And Putin knows all too well that the Kurds have to be included in those talks. That means a Kurdish autonomy within Syria. And it means a return of the oil fields in Deer al Zour province to the Syrian state. That is what the groups fighting there tried to accomplish. Those oil fields belong to Syria, not to the Kurds. And most certainly not to the US. Under international law, any conquered territories have to be returned.
3
Imagine for a moment that Trump decides to go all in and supports the Kurds and takes on the Russians and Turks within the sphere of Syria and Iraq. Not many Americans would have a problem with the U.S. embarrassing Putin and Erdogan and kicking them out and back to their own borders. Trump would have his war like GW had his Iraq war - maybe win a second term. Russia and Turkey might actually be shamed so deeply that opposition political forces in both Russia and Turkey would grow more emboldened.
7
The Kurds are not white. Trump would never see the value in them that most Americans, especially those serving in our military, do, not only as human beings but as one of our staunchest allies. Erdogan has been successful in breaking down democratic principles in his own country, stood by and watched as his thugs attacked American protesters in D.C., has locked up thousands of journalists and considers the Kurds, terrorist. Trump would never want to do or as proven thus far, even say anything to embarrass either Putin or Erdogan - two "strong men" - they are his idols. Sad, quite pitiful and scary days now in America. Imagine, for a moment, you ask? Can't be done. Sadly Trump isn't even smart enough to see how much he would have to gain with even a few glances at 'realities on the ground' thus pushing America toward creating his own version - just as we can now see Netanyahu has succeeded doing in Israel, I might add. Corruption, quite frankly, too easily breeds more of itself by breeding it also to itself and we witness it across the world being tolerated part and parcel of politics. Our democratically principled slopes have well passed slippery, they are newly formed slush with a very dangerous black ice lurking beneath.
4
It seems more likely Trump will, as previous US presidents have done, betray the Kurds yet again.
9
Not a likely scenario. It would mean the US would be bogged down for another 10 years while China and Russia complete the BRI and the economy wanders off to Asia. China owns some $1.4t in treasuries. If it sells them off, the US will go down. The dollar will devalue and the US economy sink. In addition, China is pressuring Saudi Arabia to pay for its oil in Yuan. If Saudi refuses to accept Yuan, it will lose market share in China to Russia. Saudi cannot afford that and will soon have to give in. That means the end of the petrodollar. The petrodollar is really what the US wars in the Middle East - namely Iraq, Libya and Syria - are all about. The US is in a much more precarious situation than it admits. Trump thinks it can all be solved with tactical nukes. But that will not be the case. Now Trump wants to convince the Pacific Rim countries by force to ally with the US rather than with China. That will not likely work either. The US cannot force or attack a country that is already allied with China or Russia (i.e. Vietnam) to change its alliances just because the US so desires.
3
Nothing like working towards peace and stability! Good job, U.S.A.! Not to mention Pence sitting on his hands at the Olympic opening ceremonies while the Koreas are trying to get their act TOGETHER – nothing worse for U.S.interests.. Real "progress" for the "Leader of the 'Free' World"! Pfft...!
12
I think it’s important to realize that there is no Syria anymore.
Time to think forward.
3
Syria exists. That is what Assad and Russia and Iran and Hezbollah fought a heroic battle for: to uphold the secular Syrian state.
2
We are repeatedly told that most Vladimir Putin's foreign policy decisions/actions are driven by his resentment of the West, which he blames for the collapse of Soviet Union. If he is such a vengeful individual, holding grudge for almost three decades, shouldn't we be concerned how will he be responding to more than 200 of his people being killed by the US military?
1
Putin isn't quite so vengeful. He is thoughtful and he wants peace genuinely. That is the difference between Putin and the US. The US talks of democracy and peace while destroying both. Russia acts for peace, genuinely.
With the US increasing its "defense"! budget to nearly $ one trillion a year by 2019, the world realizes that it cannot defeat the US militarily. It has to defeat it in more systemic ways. And that is in the making. The US will in time go down due to its debt. If the petrodollar - for which the US fights all these battles and tries with all means to prevent a land route from China to the Mediterranean, which would end the petrodollar for good, falls, so will the US economy and all its might.
1
Picking in an orchard in Syria looks way more dangerous then any job on earth right now.
4
With the mess in Syria only worsening, I wonder what would happen if the reverse scenario occurs and Russians kills American soldiers. Perhaps it has already happened and we aren't being told. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but when we have a Commander-In-Chief who can't go a day without lying and a Chief Of Staff (former Marine general) who is now truth- challenged, the truth is in short supply these days.
8
When did we in the US have a government that didn't lie?
2
Why are we there?
Why?
Tell us, Mr. President.
Tell us, Members of Congress.
Tell us, DoD Military Junta.
Just tell us.
Speak to us.
Even if it is in your nativist militaristic tongue.
Speak to us.
10
You would have to ask the Obama administration why he led us into war with Syria. And to think he received a novel peace prize is ridiculous.
5
Steve Coll's "Ghost Wars" and his most recent book "Directorate S" will bring you some answers. I'm guessing you won't like them.
1
"“He died, heroically defending our motherland in the far reaches against the invasion of maddened barbarians" is very Russianesque but it sounds somehow familiar.
2
What they mean is that they fought against some pockets of ISIS. And yes, those are the enemies of Russia. The US wanted to use ISIS to destabilize not just the Middle East, but Russia and China as well.
3
The Motherland is big enough, there is no need to defend it outside your borders!!
I would not be surprised to learn if the Russian government does not mind having these folks killed because that would mean they won't be coming back to Russian to foment unrest and home-grown terrorism in the future. Perhaps the US did Putin a favor on this one.
3
The news that apparently there are nationalist paramilitaries in Russia now should be of grave concern to us, I agree. But there is no need to disrespect our enemy's fallen soldiers. The Russians themselves are disrespecting them by pretending they are just in Syria "on vacation."
The US airstrike aimed to target the regime forces. Surely the US must know that a large number of Russian mercenaries fight for Assad. This incident would be the most lethal clash between US and Russian citizens since the end of the Cold War. The longer the US and Russia remain in Syria, the multi-layered war - local, regional and international - will soon be fought between two global powers who once dominated the Cold War era. Russia is now an occupation force in Syria - with the consent of Assad. But the US wants to remain and keep an eye on Iran, while backing the Kurds and some rebel groups that are competing for territory vacated by the retreating ISIS fighters.
8
The Russians are there. They are integrated deeply with the regime's forces. They were getting ready to attack our allies even though they knew our troops, in smaller numbers, were there.
I don't see the issue.
Not really. Russia is not an occupying force. It acts in support of Syria and Assad. It will leave when peace is restored. I agree that the US would have known that there were Russians among the Syrian and that it bombed them on purpose, in hope Russia would start a war on the US to give the US a license to attack and have Turkey, as an ally, come to US help. Russia didn't take the bait.
2
The US does not admit to its troops being there. No Russian troops were among those fighters. There will be no other way than to push the Kurds and the US back since the US doesn't want to leave peacefully. Using mercenaries is like the US using Kurds: it's a proxy war between Russia and the US.
1
you can sooooooo tell when you've "struck a nerve" w/ the putin regime; the trolls come out in force. we struck a nerve, brought before the presidentials and the World Cup. do'h.
8
Russian citizens will know nothing about it just like they really don't know what's going on in Ukraine. State run media controls the information flow. It's something Trump would very much like to institute here.
15
Where do you get your information from? Where did you read Trump would like the Fed to take over the press? I read the Times regularly, and if this was ever the case, it would be in the Times...
3
Do you think Russian citizens dont have internet access?
5
Media flow in Russia is less controlled than it is in the US. Which is why the US is at war with RT and Sputnik news. Inside Russia, there is much more discourse on different opinions than there is in the US. The US resents that it cannot control the Russian media.
1
It very much sounds as if now that the Islamic State forces have all but crumbled, the Syrian War is degenerating into a war largely involving proxie forces of the US and the Russians. With Russia backing the dictator Bashar al-Assad and the US backing the rebel National Coalition forces and the Kurds.
What is most disturbing to me, however, as a US citizen who has lived through both the Korean and Vietnam Wars, is that at this juncture in what is now only a relatively minor civil War, the probability of the US being drug into a major conflict in Syria goes up exponentially when uniformed Russian and US forces face each other directly across a battlefield. Since as President, Dwight D. Eisenhower once said when addressing the National Executive Reserve Conference about planning battlefield strategy: (When actual wartime conditions develops on a battlefield )" Plans are worthless but planning is everything."
And no, from the looks of it it does not appear as if our current leadership has planned for this type of contingency in Syria from developing into a major conflict with a powerful opponent who has proven, time and again, that they can draw on forces on an international level which could throw our plans for the Middle East and Europe out the window in a matter of days, if provoked.
4
Nor did the last administration, who drew a red line, and proceeded to run from it.
1
"Minor civil war?" Not if you're Syrian. Hundreds of thousands of casualties. Lost count of how many people have been displaced. A million? More. Not saying we can solve it and, granted, with all the players, it's tempting to throw up one's hands. But that doesn't make it minor in any sense and especially when it's taking place on your street, or what's left, if anything, of what used to be your street. A tragic situation.
5
George W Bush planned to turn Iraq into a modern democracy by removing its government. Unfortunately the plans came from people like Paul Wolfowitz, who had no idea what he was doing. MidEast experts at the time said destabilizing Iraq would make the region start to fly apart. Obama, unlike Trump, admitted his red line statement about Syria was a mistake. Trump probably can't find Syria on a map anyway. No one learned anything from the Vietnam mistakes.
1
So, let me see if I have this right - We have on one side Syria-Assad/Iran/Hezbollah/Russia - then there are anti Assad Syrian forces funded by Middle Eastern Oil Rich Countries, Remnants of ISIS, US Backed Kurds, Turkey fighting the Kurds, US Troops (fighting against ISIS but not for Assad), France flying attacks against ISIS in Syria and Iraq...talk about Fog of War. I know ISIS needs to be defeated - but I can't imagine the chaos in Syria and Iraq ending any time soon with so many players who have so many different goals. US backed troops firing on the Russians is just one example of how out of control this all is. I am beginning to think it is time to bring our troops home.
13
Anyone who thought the Syrian war might be coming to an end better think again. It is likely that Israel and Saudi Arabia were not happy that our regime change effort was not completed. So you can be sure regime change is still on the agenda. Our resources are again just being wasted.
6
Its pretty bad when your own country disavows your death and valor to its own citizens especially family even sometimes, lying about the circumstances.
2
This is a good example of the absolute need to have adequate air cover in military engagements. I do not think the army caught out by aerial destruction will make the same mistake again.
2
https://www.facebook.com/ua.informnapalm.org/?fref=st
Small price for Russia to pay after getting away with interfering in the 2016 American Presidential election. Plus taking Crimea back and manufacturing mayhem in Ukraine.
1
You might enjoy this perspective:
https://www.blackagendareport.com/intercepts-attack-oppressed-why-i-write
3
@Chris
America's follies in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya and Iran will all end very badly for America at the cost of local blood.
3
According to Debka File, the administration is holding Syria meetings this week to counter Russia and implement Israel's wishes. Why don't we hear about this stuff from NYT?
"Invited too are senior European diplomats from Britain, Germany, France and Italy, and representatives from Asia, led by Japan and India. The conference has been called to hammer out a unified US-European-Asian policy for determining the shape of the regime in post-war Syria and Assad’s future role. The Trump administration intends to come out of these deliberations with a broadly-based US-led coalition policy for Syria that will challenge Vladimir Putin’s plans for leading Syria from war to peace in conjunction with Iran and Turkey."
https://www.debka.com/reported-israeli-strikes-syria-coincide-us-cogitat...
5
Because it doesn't fit the narrative of this paper. Trump very very bad. Democrats good.
3
And and who invited the American? ISIS? How can you operate in a country without its government's approval?
11
I see why your handle is "Amatuer"....dictators usually do not invite you, the oppositions do though...read a bit of history amateur.
3
Let's see... the same way we operated in Germany and Japan without the government's permission.
3
Good point. What happens when ISIS is completely dead? Will we leave? Or will be part of some border force protecting Iraq from inside Syria? Boggles the mind.
2
It would seem that Russian "volunteers/mercenaries" have now migrated from eastern Ukraine to Syria. How strange that Russian government aircraft and pilots are operating in Syria but once you put Russians on the ground they have nothing to do with the Russian government. What a strange world.
3
What the corporate media did not disclose is that Russia and Ukraine had a deal for Russia to keep up to 25,000 troops in Crimea, and it was the historical and current location of Russia's Black Sea fleet. They had 16,000 soldiers in Crimea, and it was only after John McCain, Barack Obama, George Soros, and the other typical neocons like Bill Kristol and Victoria Nuland ousted democratically elected President Yanukovych to expand NATO when Russia defended it's own security, since they won't be able to fight off NATO and all of their missiles pointing at Russia that will finally reach Ukraine.
The expansion already went further east than the agreement with Gorbachev. They even offered Russia to join NATO back then, but that idea has since been buried, so now, NATO expansion next to nations not invited into NATO is a blatant threat.
4
Thanks for that expert analysis comrade.
2
Syria did not ask us into their country, that is, Assad s Syria. Any act of aggression backed by the US against Russians is tantamount to a hostile action as Russia was asked there by Assad. You DO NOT cross borders to get an enemy without an invite. There is such a thing as respect for diplomacy.
4
good luck with that
1
Hey Roadeye, have you even followed this conflict? Dictators do not invite you in...should we have asked Hitler, or Mussolini if we could enter Germany and Italy?
2
The Kremlin originally said those Russians killed fighting in the eastern part of Ukraine a few years ago were ‘on vacation.’ Now we have Russians killed ‘on vacation’ in Syria. Maybe they should find better travel agents.
4
The Russians have lied repeatedly about their military involvement in Syria. They have already said at least three times in the last two years they were "winding down" their involvement, only that it is not true. The Russians are actually escalating their involvement in Syria and they are not communicating that to their own people.
1
The longer this chaos goes on in Syria the weaker Iran and Russia become. Good. Can't kill the snake's tail in Syria maybe you can kill the snake's head in NK.
I'm sure this is how top US officials and Pentagon Generals think, and that's why they've been very reluctant in fighting against ISIS and other terrorist groups in Syria as these "rebels" serve this exact purpose. They just don't have the decency to admit that. For the sake of weakening Russia and Iran we're willing to turn a blind eye to jihadists as long as they are on the same side.
1
Just what US goals in Syria are worth a conflict with the Russians? Who authorized the US military to attack the Syrian Army? And to put 2000 troops in country? Congress? I don't believe we are at war with Syria. Looks like the Executive Branch has vastly overstepped its constitutional powers-with virtually no push back from the media or our elected representatives.
9
I'm pretty sure these troops were in Syria prior to this admin...like back in 2014, when ...eh...someone else was president....but he's cool, so you know....it's Trump's fault.
4
@ John Taylor
Be careful, John.
Your sane reasoning will lead to you being labelled a "Putin puppet".
4
Well, Trump could've have pulled them out, but it seems he is happy to reverse Obama where in other areas; but not on this one where he can afford to be the spoiler in a big power game without fear of paying price; at least not yet.
This is very advantageous for Russian propaganda. Also for American. They can justify the boosted Military budgets. It's only a little collateral damage. Good for the economy. Staged courtesy of Putin and his Puppet
1
You are so off base....have you read this article yet?
3
Actually the military budget has been cut nearly in half because of the low oil prices affecting Russia's revenue.
2
This story, like the related one about the downed Israeli plane returning from a mission in Syria, deserves more attention. The 7 year old regional conflagration in Syria continues, and with Russia, Iran and the U.S. fighting proxy wars there, the chances of something even more catastrophic occurring grows with each mistake.
8
Well... We have the lighter, fuse, and bomb .. just waiting for the explosion. Should be anytime now..
3
The *U.S. and it's allies (International Coalition Forces)* are only a very small part responsible for destroying Syria *with less than 1% percent, at about one/half of 1% percent, of the civilian deaths.* The Syrian Network For Human Rights (SNHR) reported on the 6th anniversary (March 2011 to 2017) of the Arab Spring uprising that the death toll for civilians has reached about 207,000 with *about 94% percent of those civilians were killed by the Bashar al-Assad's Syrian regime-Iranian-Russian alliance.* http://sn4hr.org/blog/2017/03/18/35726/ (Assad's Syrian regime had killed about 190,000 of his own civilian people in very large numbers.)
4
The so-called "Syrian Network For Human Rights (SNHR)" is known for its sever bias, pro-rebel views and anti-regime positions, and therefore lack credibility. I'm not saying the regime was not responsible for many deaths and abuses, but the atrocities committed by tens of thousand of rebels who invaded Syria over the last 7 years have contributed to much of the death toll, destruction and flight of population. Large civilians casualties are unavoidable in a conflict where rebel groups use civilian areas and city buildings to hide their forces and weapons. Looks at the death toll among civilians in Mosul and how many of them were killed by US forces during their air support for Iraqi forces.
Of course Russia is going to downplay this incident. Consider if you were in Putin's position. If you worked hard to put a "friendly asset" in the White House, would you want to ruin the benefits of all that hard work over a skirmish?
9
As many commentators predicted in the end it turns out Putin has bitten off much more than he can chew. Russia's sclerotic and shrinking economy so dependent on fossil fuels is not up to funding a long-term commitment in the Middle East.
14
Fossil fuels? So wait you mean if we keep the price of oil low we hurt Russia? What a novel idea. Oh wait, aren't President Trumps energy policies designed to do just that?
1
I wish liberals/democrats at least would be wary of war with Russia, but this hysteria over Russia meddling in our election through social media seems to put lib/dems in line with right-wingers in spoiling for conflict with Russia. 1) any meddling Russia did in our election utterly pales in comparison to the centuries of highly effective election meddling and regime change we have conducted in hundreds of countries, and 2) any Russian meddling through social media trolling did NOTHING (we are not influenced by social media posting; we seek out social media postings that comport with our previously held beliefs). We have been at war for far too long. Our military is deployed in far too many countries. We need to get back to peacefully promoting democracy and a better world through benign foreign aid (YES, give them foreigners our hard earned money for something other than guns; it is cheaper than all the wars we are waging and will need to wage and the best way to keep them from coming here if you don't want them here).
16
@John as to #2 - when Russian bots make messages go viral, no one has to seek postings that reflect our own views - we are fed them at an accelerated rate. And those who aren't deeply left or right will be swayed. Those who are heavily biased will become more so by the repetition of messages feeding their belief system (basic neuroscience).
"this hysteria over Russia meddling in our election" They illegally hacked the DNC emails and them dumped to the great delight and benefit Trump's campaign. It is still unclear how much Trump's camp coordinated in this illegal action. The Russians also attempted to hack into over 20 State election systems and succeeded in nearly half to access voter roles. To say this is hysteria is truly denial on the grandest scale. Obviously, Trump and his supporters want to downplay this massive effort because it puts the legitimacy of the electoral process that results in Trump winning into serious question. what is even more troubling is the fact the Trump administration has done nothing to punish the Russian's for this behavior nor made any efforts to prevent another intrusion into 2018 elections.
33
No, it doesn't.
Russia is not "hundreds of other countries" so stop comparing the two.
4
I see representatives from the Russian Ministry of Truth have decided to join us at NYT comments again. Welcome back, haven't seen you much since the 2016 elections.
55
@ citybumpkin
With political discourse down to this level, no wonder the US is considered the richest third world banana republic on the face of the planet.
7
Any option that differs from yours must be #FakeNews
6
reasoned discourse is one thing. flooding "the space" w/ "what about~ism" and demanding a response is another.
2
"only 25 pro-government Syrian insurgents were wounded"
What are pro-gov insurgents???
4
Well, thankfully they were mercenaries, otherwise, we would have an issue on our hands. Russia using mercenaries is very common.
1
The 'mercenaries', also know as Little Green Men, are using active Russian soldiers. In the US, its called 'sheep dipping'. You leave the military for a contract job with a company that just happens to be owned by the CIA. When you're done, your retirement papers are burned and you're back in the service. The time you spent outside is even counted towards your pension.
1
Please.
Russia CLAIMING they are using mercenaries is common. Russian claiming those fighting in Ukraine were on vacation is just as common, until, at which point they can no longer deny this, and admit they were Russian regulars.
The US and its Syrian allies (Kurdish-led SDF) did exactly the right thing. The attack was a major escalation of the war. (Notice that in spite of the headline, it was the Russian/SAA side that attacked.) The Syria being defended by US/SDF is the stable, relatively peaceful part of the country. It is worth defending. There are 2,000 American military in all of Syria, and we should be proud that they are doing their job assisting the only democratic presence.
Assad and the Russians are trying to claim legitimacy by the force of war crimes. Millions of refugees and tens of thousands of rebels disagree.
In the northwest, Afrin, we have left the SDF to defend itself on its own against the unprovoked attack by Turkey. Russia has left the skies clear for Turkish bombers. They are replicating Assad/Russian war crimes.
12
There are many misleading statements here; here are two of them:
1- "it was the Russian/SAA side that attacked." This is the US narrative, which is at best selective. We've seen that before: for example lies about bombed civilian targets in Iraq despite evidence to the contrary. Even the US story mentions only one SDF fighter wounded in the Syrian "attack"! That's it! And so in response a fleet of US jets and helicopters bomb the Syrian forces for 3 hours, essentially annihilating them. This was not a response to an attack, but an attempt to draw the red lines where the US has full (and seemingly permanent) control over areas east of the Euphrates regardless of Syrian sovereignty and territorial integrity.
2- "The Syria being defended by US/SDF is the stable, relatively peaceful part of the country." Seriously? Tell that to the Kurds now under attack by the Turkish forces in the north and the thousands of Arabs and Turkmen who have been evicted by Kurdish forces in a silent ethnic cleansing in the east Euphrates. Not to mention the existence of a large pocket of ISIS along much of the Iraqi border that seems to be at peace with SDF and US forces.
Also the government-controlled areas, especially the coastal region and much of Damascus have been the most stable areas where life continues to be more or less normal, despite 7 years of war; and that's where many people went to shelter as they fled from ISIS and other groups. These are the areas worth protecting.
Turkey is focused on fighting the Kurds, is supporting certain rebel groups the US abhors -- though it is nominally allied with the US against ISIS, and remains neutral toward Assad in Damascus.
Russia is focused on supporting Assad, nominally fighting ISIS, bombing Sunni rebels, and, nominally, neutral toward the US.
The US is focused on fighting ISIS, supporting Kurds and other insurgent groups in their fight against Assad, and, nominally, neutral about Turkey's January invasion of the YPG's canton.
Hezbollah is focused fighting Sunni rebels opposed to Damascus, nominally neutral toward Russia, Turkey, and the US, and enduring repeated Israeli airstrikes.
Iran is focused on supporting its Hezbollah allies and funding Assad in his fight against Sunni rebels, openly hostile toward Israel, and nominally neutral toward Russia, Turkey, and the US.
Saudi Arabia is focused on supporting Sunni rebels fighting Damascas, ostensibly allied with the United States against ISIS, openly hostile toward Israel and Iran, and, nominally, neutral toward Russia and Turkey.
Sunni rebels receiving US support are actively fighting ISIS, Assad, and each other, most are nominally neutral toward Turkey (except for those receiving Turkish support to fight the SDF-YPG and, of course, the YPG, whose canton the Turks just invaded), and enduring repeated Russian airstrikes.
I'm starting to go cross-eyed, but its easy to see why the de-confliction lines are in jeopardy. Diplomacy is warranted!
10
Diplomacy was warranted before it started. What a cluster-jam. Fighting has been with the human species as long as history itself. It must be in the human genes that haven't evolved out yet. But when we stop to think about how genetics work, this one - fighting - which by its own nature, lends to survival in so many ordinary circumstances will be difficult to weed out.
We can make Earth work for everyone. We can probably go to other planets and possibly develop sustainable living conditions. What great excitement, work and fun for everyone. But no, humans are still wasting time, money and resources fighting over this one and killing innocent people, even children, in the process - all unnecessarily. Go figure.
The reasoned mind is going to have to evolve faster than the physical body has and now faster than technology. I don't see that one coming but we can hope and work toward it. It is all we have to do and have left to do. And even so, it will only be a very thin line of very few descendants each that will get to enjoy it.
This will be slow moving shipwreck similar to pacific fleet, Its coming as Reagan said in his famous speech about US Aircraft carrier and sea lighthouse story. US and Turkish soldiers will end up harming each other due to stupid stubborn local US commanders. And of course few NYT writers willingly pursue Kurdish romantic dreams w their elevation in this article. There are no Kurdish soldiers bunch of local militiamen, thugs, local jobless adventurers.
4
Welcome back to The NY Times Boris Badenov, Natasha Fatale and Fearless Leader!
3
laughably transparent for someone who knows Russian and how the languages differ (graded my stepdaughter's papers before submission in high school). This is Putin's "Mission Accomplished" moment where he promised one thing but the situation drives another. Oops.
1
And somehow, about 40% of the American public falls for this.....
1
“ for reasons that remain unclear...”
Because Syrians want their territory back? My goodness.
3
Will Don attend the wreath laying ceremony?
1
Isn't it strange how, whenever an article includes the word "Russia" in it, a much larger-than-normal number of the comments are made up of long-winded theories all arriving to the exact same conclusions: Everything the US (and Israel) does is to evil, conspiratorial ends. Russia is simply used as the scapegoat for all of this evil. All Russia is doing is minding its own business, helping out those down on their luck, like Assad.
Who knew so many people felt this way!?
4
and today we take out a russian tank, boy, the carnage would really be high if Trump wasn't Putins puppet
3
No red line drawn in the sand there...
"At no point, an American military spokesman said, was there any chance of direct conflict between United States and Russian forces."
But hey, a little indirect contact through a less than precise airstrike, is no big deal. Especially amongst friends.
4
This is all fallout from our fool’s-errand invasion of Iraq 15 years ago. Connect the dots for your readers!
10
17 years ago.
1
While I am simply your typical North American USA city male, I am growing more concerned with the evil imperialism that our military has makings on the world. Why must we spend so many US dollar on bombs when no amount of technology can make us a match for the powerful bear nation?
Maybes the time has come for us to join together as North American US citizens and demand that our leaders behave more like the peaceful, reasonable leaders of the world. There are very many to choose from, but, if I must to pick one randomly off the top of my head? How about Vladimir Putin? He has given the world a strong example of leadership that does not subject the world to capitalist-dog imperialism.
Just the musings of your average North American US citizen.
4
Most of what you see of the Russian military is a Potemkin village. They have some nice hardware but not much of it. Most of the new stuff is sold overseas for hard currency. The bombs dropped in Syria are 'dumb bombs' not too much different than in WW2. The US and our allies barely use them anymore. The Russian have to because they can't build enough smart bombs of their own.
Okay comrade okay.
1
Your average North American US citizen should know that New York City never has the article "The" in front of it. Also, do you know of another New York City? Thanks for letting us know that you are in the USA, "The New York City."
Say hi to Mr. Putin.
Of course, this will happen again. There might occasions when the dead are American. Not to see that would be irresponsible
2
Why does the picture accompanying this article show Syrian fighters and not Russians? On the whole this article is confusing.
4
The feral war pigs have overrun our government and corporations. They are highly intelligent animals, highly aggressive and impossible to eradicate. Containment is our only hope.
1
So, Russians, NOT in uniform, get killed. Reminds me of the Korean war when Russian pilots flew missions killing Americans. Why is this news?
Russia and American forces fighting is series stuff. Iranian stealth drone in Isreal.. a few days later. I wonder what really going on behind the scenes. Killing Russians, not a big deal?
1
I'm confused. I thought Trump and Putin were in cahoots. Why would Trump kill his guys after Putin got him elected??
3
Oh gosh that is too bad.
3
Even though I've come to expect the worst of American foreign policy, I'm still outraged by Russiagate for its blatant fraudulence, its deranged aggressiveness, and its role in the Real Evil Empire's dying ambition to consolidate its global Exceptionalist Empire.
Just recently the US had announced its intentions to maintain some 2000 military personnel in the area, providing "logistical support" and other such claptrap, obviously to continue funneling weapons and providing training to the anti-Assad camp, with the also declared goal of up to 30,000 permanernt troops.
The US is re-training Daash killers they allowed to escape from Raqqa, and other regions of Syria, Iraq etc.
Apparently, the plan is to destroy all the Islamic states of the region (for Israel) and to attack Iran, Russia, China and Central Asia so the Holy American Empire goes on until the US falls, or destroys the entire world.
It is no coincidence that as Turkey now flips the US the big middle finger, Mattis came out and declared a new global strategy for America's military which will be to prevent the rise of foreign powers instead of further expanding US influence.
I expect the US will continue to hurl empty threats and accusations at China, Russia and other nations and flounder in the process, making a complete fool of itself as it disgracefully falls from the position of despotic and oppressive superpower down to something closer to the status of third world country run by the world's richest individuals.
3
Once the Kremlin put those contract soldiers into that attacking column, either they would kill Americans or the Americans would kill them. So much for the deconfliction line.
Is Putin’s desire to control sources of oil so depraved that he’d risk starting war with the USA?
1
No risk as long as his puppet is President.
One report says that a Russian merc outfit of 250+ men suffered 220 dead and the rest wounded. The forces walked into a bushwhack of bombers, helicopter gunships, artillery, etc.
4
Proximity-fused shells are hell on massed formations of troops. My father described BDA pictures of North Korean troop formations as "resembling hamburger."
Will Mad Dog play down, or just ignore, massive US losses?
2
Who benefits from the collapse of Syria as a state? It’s pretty obvious.
3
Why hasn't the media pressed the administration on their Syria policy, which obviously has changed and we are now directly fighting Syrian regime forces. Why is that? What's the plan if we won't allow the government take control of the entire country?
4
Yes, yes, Vlad; you can't imagine how sorry I am. .. Yes, I did see "Fail Safe"...Okay, just let me know exactly how many guys you lost and I'll gun down that many Americans on Fifth Avenue...
#realdonaldtrumpfakepresident
3
Americans are killing Syrian soldiers in their own country.
23
Looks to me like they are defending Syrians from Russians.
2
Syrian soldiers are killing Syrians in their country.
3
My goodness, you have got to keep up mate .... the Russians are killing Syrians in their own country and have been for quite a while .... seems the Russians believe Assad has the right to murder defenseless women and children .... and to use chemical weapons on them at will. The Russians do this because Putin believes that a dictator has the right to destroy anyone who questions his rule. And, he wants the world to know this less they question his rule over Russia. You need to find another country and another ruler, mate.
Some estimates are putting the Russian dead at around 200. All civilians of course.
4
Why are you falsely claiming they were all civilians?
Not many Russians live in that area of Syria....
But you might be being sarcastic ;)
1
What is in Syria that is worth risking WWIII?
I thought the US was preparing for a 'bloody nose' strike on DPRK, that would likely result in full-scale war?
12
Donald fights everybody ... especially his friend (as Putin just learned). Donald's parents sent him to military school when they were thru turning him into a sociopath ... they couldn't manage what they wrought.
"Little Green Men" in Syria. Who knew?!?
7
How do you say "Black Water" in Russian?
10
Originally, I thought this action would bring the U.S. and Russia to a shooting war, however, if Russia is denying any involvement and not even blaming the U.S. for Russian and pro-Assad soldiers deaths then the truth of whatever happened must be damning to Putin. If it has to do with protecting US/Russian relations then Trump must have Putin over a barrel somehow. Good. Rarely do the fanatics ever stay silent when it is politically expedient to howl from the rooftops. I don't trust anything about Syria, Russia, Hezbollah, or Iran.
4
Russia uses mercenaries to handle "special jobs" to avoid affiliation, much like what they're doing in Eastern Ukraine. The only problem, these fighters are on their own and don't have the backing of Russia. If these were Russian troops (marked with insignia), we would be on the brink of WWIII.
"Putin. If it has to do with protecting US/Russian relations then Trump must have Putin over a barrel somehow."
More like the other way. Put yourself in Putin's shoes, if you worked hard to put a "friendly asset" in the White House, why would you want to ruin the benefits of having such a "friendly asset" over a skirmish in a backwater?
1
I dont trust Turkey or us either.
They finally got to blow someone to bits, and that should keep them content for a while.
4
" ... a strategic, oil rich territory that is coveted by the Syrians", in Syria, Explain that to me, please!
28
Thou shalt not covet thy own wife. Isn't that in the Bible? Oh wait.
1
Beats the oil in The Golan Heights as far as Israel is concerned as that is where the next clash will be if Assad, Russia, and Iran maintain their grip on Syria.
You equate Assad with Syria???
Bring on the nuclear war - keep the "Complex" happy!
5
Tangentially: Given the lying sacks that run Russia today, do we need even bigger lying sacks running the US? Or do we need honesty and openness?
3
Address that question to the idiots who voted for that lying con artist who squats in the White House today. What that heck are we doing in Syria anyway?
Cleaning up Obamas mess.
I note that US military is reported to have checked with the Russian military asking if there were Russians involved before bombing the attacking force. Thus, the Russians being killed was not the result of US being more aggressive, but US inaccurately being told the attacking force didn't include Russians.
It is probably known only to a few top level Russians whether their local command didn't know the force included many Russians or knew, but had reasons to deny it to the US military. It says quite a bit about the attempts to avoid US - Russian direct conflict that we are checking with the Russians prior to bombing an attacking force.
Presumably, the Russian government is not protesting loudly because they know the USAF asked the Russian local commander if there were Russians present prior to bombing the attacking force and were told "no".
9
@Scott Steamboat Springs, Colorado
Probably what happened. The Russian capacity for lying is infinite based on my experience (admittedly in cold war days) and there is no reason to think it's changed.
10
So gauche with "Russian trolls are howling" and referring to US-opposed militaries, "all they do is squeal".
If I wanted unsupported bravado, I'd be reading Comments at WaPo.
But I read the NY Times, and both Republicans and Democrats in Congress FAILED to do their job and authorize President Obama's modest request.
So Steve, I vehemently disagree about which branch of our government was "gutless" (your word).
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/01/world/middleeast/syria.html
1
This conflict is beginning to look worryingly like a proxy war...
7
It's been a proxy war from the beginning and now Israel is in play. We keep re-fighting World War II and we keep compounding the mistakes of others: French, British, Russian, you name it.
2
This will get worse.
11
(With regards to Orwell)
It seems that Oceania has come back into play, striking a blow against thier Eurasia enemies. This will probably enable Eurasia to boost internal support and divert funds to their defense. Now is the time for Two Minutes Hate
War is Peace | Freedom is Slavery | Ignorance is Strength
13
I hate to say that, but may be Russians deserved that. Russians supported Trump to become president because they wanted the most incompetent candidate to get to the WH. Now, they are paying back
4
It is very unclear whom we are defending out there. We know we killed some Russians and that must be Putin and his friends. But could you put at least ONE NAME to name some of our friends? No? Are they in hiding? Wanted by Interpol or the FBI? This article makes it sound that the only important achievement is that we killed Russian nationals. Certainly (another) Pulitzer level NYT Russia coverage team.
7
It's very clear whom we *should* be protecting: the Kurds. To blazes with Turkey, too.
1
Why are we even IN Syria? Secret proxy wars that just go on and on and on...
14
"a strategic, oil-rich territory that is coveted by the Syrians." 'Covetted'? It is sovereign Syrian territory which US proxies raced to capture from ISIS before the SAA could secure it, in order to seize land and resources belonging to the Syrian people in the ongoing 'coalition' effort to balkanize the country and install western-friendly puppets. As long as ISIS attack Syrian government forces the US leaves them alone, as they did the 1000-tanker oil convoys that regularly ran crude to Turkey for a year before the Russians put a stop to them; indeed they are actually training converted ISIS militiamen in illegal bases such as al Tanf, to use in ongoing regime change efforts in Syria. The American occupation of eastern Syria is a sordid, murderous enterprise that has nothing to do with 'peace' and everything to do with a bankrupt foreign policy which does little to improve America's international reputation.
21
Very convincing Owenov. We get it. The US is the real bad guy. Russia, who only was protecting Syrians sovereignty (due to its long track record of deep respect for a nations self-determination) was doing the noble thing by helping Assad wage total war on the eternal enemy (his own people). Why can't people just understand this and stop falling for that darned western propaganda?
2
Mr. Ford's comments are ridiculous. He throws a little jargon and a lot of nonsense. The most insidious vein is that Assad is legitimate because the Russians and Iranians are keeping rebels out of the capital. The world is aware of the armed resistance against him and the millions who have fled are evidence of his war crimes. The Russians continue the same crimes. That they are in Mr. Ford's view somehow responsible actors needs the full definition of "responsible."
The only areas in Syria that are stable and relatively peaceful are those which the US protects with its Syrian allies, the Kurdish-led SDF. The attack came from the Assad army and the Russians. It was a complete violation of all norms. The attackers were even lying to the US/SDF in real time they were carrying out the attack. We did exactly the right thing, and hopefully it will prevent more such events.
The fact that both Russia and the US are playing this down. I mean, "hundreds of Russian soldiers killed by US air strikes and SDF ground operations"? That is a headline anywhere in the world!
Last note: The Kurds and the SDF do not want a separate state. That is our idea of what they should want, so Mr. Ford's "Balkanized" is as deliberately wrong as everything else in his comment.
1
A normal Canadian reaction, all cribbed from Russian TV, no doubt.
And now Israel has entered the fray. The major difference between the United States and all of the other nations that are contending in Syria is that they are all regional powers and have skin in the game. The United States has no valid reason at all for being there. How many Middle Eastern disasters must we suffer? Our government resembles the ancient House of Bourbon. It never forgets anything and never learns anything.
12
The US must keep sticking it’s nose into central and Western Asia to remain a big brother to the most trusted ally.
1
"How many Middle Eastern disasters must we suffer?"
That question becomes moot if we ask a more basic one: "How many Middle Eastern disasters must we inflict?"
1
We continue to expand upon our mistake from 2003. After the invasion of Iraq we make a quick, and well advertised withdraw from the region. Then, in order to counter Iran's growing involvement in Syria we provide financial and military support to "the moderate rebels" who, surprise!, turn out to be al-Qaeda.
12
Well, the US did the exact same thing in Iraq to suppress facts and costs: send in "contractors." I'd rather live in a nation that isn't ashamed of its military ventures. Is there one?
15
romania, bests.
" I'd rather live in a nation that isn't ashamed of its military ventures. Is there one?"
Well I'd say Costa Rica, which has no military, but then their president volunteered to help us with our coup in Honduras. Or I'd say Switzerland, but they help all the dirty arms dealers, warlords and druglords hide their finances. Maybe Botswana?
The only nations unashamed of their military ventures are those that do not have any.
You call the Russians mercenaries. You call our guys contractors. It is as if our guys are in all these countries installing plumbing, working on the electrical grid and fixing the roads. Just saying!
You make the assumption that Putin fears America? I don't think he fears us anymore. He knows that we are so divided that we are incapable of any real action.
Putin has attacking our country for years. He has flooded our social media networks with lies, half truths, and misinformation doing his best to divide us, like the good KGB officer he is. He has tainted an entire Presidential election. How many more tainted Presidential Elections can we endure before our ship of state sinks beneath the waves? It has been reported that Putin broke into 21 state election systems. All these incidents are direct attacks on our democracy, no different that when the Japanese struck at Pearl Harbor so many years ago, only this attack is in slow motion.
Instead of investigating the Russians, Republicans want to investigate the F.B.I. There is something so terribly wrong with that. Despite all this and much more, Trump continues to pander to Putin. He referred to Director Comey as a "nut job." He refers to Putin as a "great leader." Trump continues to ignore the sanctions that Congress enacted months ago by near unanimous votes. He continually attacks our free press and our very system of justice. His White House is in disarray. He himself is in legal jeopardy. Yet we do nothing.
25
You are kidding yourself if you think the douchbag who declared the American Embassy would be moved to Jerusalem is a Putin puppet or that he’s in Judicial danger. Trump has very nearly made himself immune by pandering to the greatest ally.
3
There are credible reports that the Israelis came within a millimeter of launching full up invasion of Syria and Lebanon over the drone and the F-16 shootdown. Now we learn that a LOT Russian "mercenaries" were killed maneuvering to attack a U.S. Position. AS though any Russian on earth would dare to do something that radical without checking with the Kremlin. It is literally a contest between the mess in Syria, and the powder keg in North Korea to see which one can outdo run up to 1914 in getting millions of people killed over nothing.
4
I suppose as long as we're glad to drop a bomb on anyone someone asks us to, these things will happen. So accommodating of us. I can see why a military like ours needs a much bigger budget.
14
And here I though Trump said he'd "won" the war against ISIS. You know in SYRIA. So why is the US, plus the coalition still there? Geeeee, you mean to tell me he's lying? Again?
Being from Canada, I recall Harper (then Conservative leader) having a PARADE, yes parade, to "celebrate" the Canadian led coalition win in Libya. Well. Look how well that "win" turned out. Plus, notice Harper's no longer leader, nor Prime Minister. It was his "barbaric practices" hotline that finally did the Conservatives in. Seriously. There's hope America!
4
I Thought Trump said, he'd won the war against ISIS. In Syria. So why is US air support being called in against ISIS?
You mean the Trump administration is being dishonest? Again? (said sarcastically of course just in case someone doesn't get it).
2
If recent history is an indication of American plans for Syria,america will cause deaths of many but will be as successful as was american involvement in Vietnam,Laos,Iraq,Libya,Syria and various other locations,Yankees stay home save your lives and others.
4
Trump is not always wrong. The U.S. has placed firmer limits on aggression against its interests in this region. These limits apply not only to ISIS and its allies but also those who would hurt U.S. allies and of course Iran and its proxies. Those proxies can include, in this complex battlefield, Russian regulars and irregulars of all types.
7
You are confusing Israeli interests, which seem to be unending wars in ME, with US interests which is stability. Syria under Assad was stable.
2
The American attack was a massacre, regardless of the identities of the victims, mostly pro-Syrian government fighters who have been fighting ISIS in the Deir Ezzor area for the past six months, while the US and SDF allowed ISIS to leave Raqqa peacefully and are coexisting with a pocket of ISIS in eastern Syrian at the Iraqi border. Sources from Deir Ezzor say most fatalities were from a local tribe, Al-Bakkara, who are part of a pro-government paramilitary force leading the fight against ISIS. Many people from Al-Bakkara and other Arab tribes have been forced by the Kurdish SDF to leave their homes east of the Euphrates on account of their ethnic origin. The presence of Russian volunteers should not surprise anybody given the globalized nature of the Syrian conflict and its proxy wars.
However, with these kinds of attacks the US military, whose existence in Syria is illegal to start with, is playing a very dangerous game. There is no clear strategy for the US there beyond destabilizing the Syrian government and pushing for a de facto division of Syria with a permanent American presence.
Trump and Mattis need to tell the American people what exactly the US goals in Syria are; and whether they are worth the lives of hundreds of Syrians and Russians who are not in a state of war with the US, not to mention the lives of US servicemen who will likely be lost as a result.
15
Perhaps in your next post you can enlighten readers as to the "clear strategy" of Russia in the region; and, if you have the time, just for fun, Iran's "clear strategy."
Enlighten readers as to their plans to keep in power the butcher Assad. Are they temporary or permanent?
Which clichés apply? The enemy of my enemy is my friend. What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. War is hell.
Thank you, comrade.
3
Russia and Iran were both invited by Syria.
U.S. was not.
Understand the difference? Too subtle?
1
If you'll recall, those forces that were wiped our were launching a ground attack on a joint Kurdish-American force. That's called self defense, and war, not a massacre. A massacre occurs when defenseless people are murdered.
The generals are having their say. Hate to say it but Obama was not the right man to deal with the Syrian War. I don't see Trump's role in this military move, he gave the generals a free hand. Oil for the Kurds and protection for their people. The U.S. won't live to regret that as we have almost every other decision that has been made since W's disastrous invasion.Turkey and Russia are on notice. Iran has to be watching and wondering. The jigsaw puzzle that is the Middle East is starting to come together.
4
The Russians pushed and The USA pushed back killing several hundred Russians.
They are learning that Trump won't back off like the gutless Obama.
That is why the Russian trolls are howling about the US being there illegally. The US, just as Russia, is there protecting its interests. No Russian Syrian control, no Iranian control. They can't defeat the US military so now all they do is squeal.
16
It would be great if the world were as simple as you perceive.
1
Actually Steve, I don’t know about you, but neither I nor any other American I know have any “interests” in this region. You may have been persuaded somehow that you do, but you really don’t, trust me.
As for Obama’s being “gutless” and Trump not, I remind you that it takes no guts for a certain kind of person to order others to risk or sacrifice their lives. We can see just how brave a man Trump is by looking at those college deferments that our MAGA loudmouth got for his “bone spurs” while better men than he fought and bled in Vietnam.
48
Are you referring to the same gutless Obama who ordered the successful Seal Team strike into the heart of Pakistan to kill Osama bin Laden? Really, comments like these are what's wrong with America right now. Unnecessary and offensive name-calling, it solves nothing. We should ALL be demanding answers from the current administration to such questions as: What interests are we protecting exactly in Syria? If we defeated ISIS, why are we still there? If it's about oil, and we want to put America first, why are we fighting over in Syria when we have vast reserves of our own here in the States, available by fracking? If we're serious about getting rid of Assad, then why do we coordinate all our attacks so that we typically avoid Russian casualties? From what I can tell, we are once again involved in a war with no end in sight that doesn't even have strategy, and can't be won using these tactics. I would ask those questions of any administration.
6
At least Trump is keeping a campaign promise to get rid of ISIS and keep the oil for our allies.
10
Assad and the Syrian government are not ISIS. In fact, Putin says the same thing we do: that Russia is there to fight ISIS. Only, we just seem to be fighting each other through proxies now: the Assad military as a proxy for Russia and our "coalition" of rebels as a proxy for us. We were told that ISIS has been defeated in Syria, and it does appear to be the case, so, why are we still there? So the rebels can have oil? Doesn't seem like a very good reason to me.
6
His efforts to "get rid of ISIS" are just as spectacular as his efforts to build a wall with Mexico. An absolute disaster.
US troops in Syria have done very little fighting agaisnt ISIS, which they cynically used to push against the Syrian army. Most of the fighting agaisnt ISIS was done by the Syrian government and its allies.
2
Read “Zinky Boys” by Svetlana Alexieva to know more about how the Russian Government (then the Soviet Government) deals with this sort of issue. It has a long history. The similarities and differences between their policies and American policies are instructive. Meanwhile, China moves right along, becoming more and more powerful by avoiding some of the fiascos we seem to find irresistible....
24
Yes. China makes business while we make war.
4
Great stuff to read for a couch potato such as myself. Don't care about the results but just the cloak and dagger ops, one side blaming the other, hyped up casualty figures (just like in Vietnam) without any visible evidence, what else. Let's keep it coming or else I'll be bored here with nothing but the coverage on just the national political issues and someone shooting a bunch of people.
18
Obama backed down from his red line and let Assad keep chemical weapons and use them on his people because he was frightened by Putin.
Trump has allowed our military to take the fight to the enemy, and if Russians get in the way, too bad.
But he colluded with Putin, right liberals?
8
Yes. Trump owed/owes them money, he thought they could help him get elected, and they thought he would be useful. The facts that Trump has realized he's not so beholden to them now, and that they are not getting the expected value for their investment, does not erase the collusion.
8
Obama realized how tough the Syrian situation was. It's why he held off giving weapons to rebels.. and why you guys were whining about him not doing anything and then whining again after ISIS took rebel firearms (he never gave rebels heavy weapons). Syria is mostly Sunni but with a Shiite government. So Sunni terrorists (as most of them are) helped the rebels. Bottom line is to stay out of Muslim affairs since they are never-ending wars. Someone always get the short end of stick, but at least a dictator keeps down civil wars.
1
Yes, he did. But he and his staff were so stupid they got caught. Now desperately trying to distract (see this article) and cover up.
Pretty simple, right?
2
Well - there's no problems in the world that a good military parade won't cure...
25
The oilfields are necessary for the viability of a Kurdish state. Kurdistan will be landlocked and the only way it will be able to survive long-term is if it can buy access to the sea with discounted oil. Keeping the oilfields out of the hands of the Syrian government and in the hands of the Kurds is the right decision to make on this issue.
I do not think the Russian military would be so brazen as to test America's position by orchestrating an attack with Russian soldiers, but that doesn't mean to me that they wouldn't also be likely to use Russian mercenaries in a similar kind of role instead. Plausible deniability at its best.
17
This is really shameful. Whose oil are you trying to steal? Such injustices sow the seeds of future bloodshed. Just once try to think what is going to be in the interest of everybody. I guess greed and selfishness are unchangeable constants of human nature.
3
The Russian people are watching their government about this. After getting wrapped up in the futile Afghanistan war (and leaving with nothing but wasted money and dead soldiers to show for it), Russians are against this like US citizens were against the Vietnam war. Putin got involved for some reason and he doesn't want the Russian people to know about losses. Syria is the worst of the Muslim wars because the 'bad' ruler is Shiite and the rebels are Sunnis who get assistance from Sunni terrorists like al quada and ISIS.
1
So since when dividing Syria and creating an independent Kurdistan in the eastern part of the country has become an American strategic goal???
It is the height of arrogance to decide the fate of another country which you clearly know very little about and out of suspect ideological motives.
3
Of course, Russia never intervenes militarily, just like Ukraine, they're all mercenaries that the Kremlin has no control over. Also, watch the 2015 Norwegian TV Series, Occupied, about a fictional Russian occupation of Norway.
Can't believe a word that comes of of the Kremlin, unless you're Donald Trump.
39
Both countries are involved in a propaganda war and you should not believe 90% of what comes from either one; but unlike the American intervention in Syria, which amount to military occupation, the Russian presence there is legal and in response to an invitation by the legitimate Syrian government.
2
... what a coincidence! I happen to be watching OCCUPIED right now. I find it quite well-made, technically, but WAY TOO one-sided. Goodness! When will we stop falling for the ever-tempting trap of ,good vs. bad', ,[fake] truths vs. [fake] lies', ,black vs. white', ,sun vs. light' ... There are myriads of nuances to consider. In almost every issue. Hard work. Which plenty of people prefer to delegate. SAD.
I’m glad we are sticking up for ourselves. Obama would have folded for sure and completely withdrawn like he did from Iraq and created another ISIS.
We don’t want to waste money nation building, but at the same time we need some presence in the area to prevent a safe haven for terrorists from forming. That is the lesson of 9/11.
Having geographic control in the region also has the added benefit of helping our allies the Kurds, and acting as a bulwark against Iranian and Syrian and Russian influence. Good strategy all around. And great execution by our military to stand our ground.
13
Just to keep the record straight, Bush signed the order with a mandatory date for all US troops to be out of Iraq before Obama took office, and Obama did not stop it. The reason we left Iraq is that the Iraq government wanted us out, and refused to sign a do not prosecute agreement for American soldiers. Obama sent troops back into Iraq to remove ISIS, and that operation continued as planed even when Trump took office, with the exception of more indiscriminate killing.
6
Your enlistment has been accepted. Thanks for your service.
2
Respectfully, your assertion is unfounded.
1
Russia once again hides its hideous acts in laughable denials. Eventually the Russian people will understand that their 'leaders' use them as pawns they can dismiss. Its citizens will tolerate a lot in the pursuit of better security but hopefully we are reaching the limits of their necessarily largely internalized outrage.
5
The CIA and Pentagon are miffed that their terror war is lost, and thus they are trying to start a direct war with Russia. They've given Putin no choice. He must strike at our troops and aircraft, otherwise what is he doing in Syria? Why send men there to die at our hands while we support terrorists?
23
Very interesting perspective from South Carolina ... something like this one would not normally be coming from South Carolina ... I am assuming SC is South Carolina or, maybe, South Crimea? Preparing for the 2018 Elections here in the US? Well, I am not going to suggest you improve on your methods and approach .... and, I don't wish you well in your efforts.
4
"Our hands"
Buddy, you're fooling no one.
3
Russia is a banana republic ... there wouldn't be much of a war ... it would be over in a second. Your building and bridges don't need a nuclear attach ... they just fall down on their own.
1
Men continue to play their deadly game in which peace is not even on their board and it will never come as long as they run the show. Is this too hard for the rest of us to understand? These guys appear to be literally suffering from some sort of derangement.
What went wrong mother?
8
Don’t blame your mother, Sonny boy.
1
The way American media is cheer-leading this, you would think they are trying very hard to provoke Russian retaliation. I mean it should be plainly obvious that Russians know where American special operatives are and could hit them and cause mass casualties at any time. And then say, Ops, it was self defense.
Russia also had the option of shooting down the American Aircraft that was attacking its forces, in self defense. They do have the ability to control the skies above Syria.
Does our media really want this to escalate? Do they have an understanding what direct confrontation could lead to?
42
I am not cheerleading it ... I think things are very dangerous ... I also think the Russians did attacked the American supported faction on purpose. I am quite sure Trump had nothing to say, let alone even know, what happened. It was a decision by commanders on the ground at the moment. I am sure Putin will talk to Donald about this .... but, he will be wasting his time. Not that Donald wouldn't want to help (my goodness, he sure does want to be helpful) but he is just too completely incompetent to be of much use in a situation like that. Putin will have to figure something else out.
Russians? What Russians? There weren't any Russians there, only Syrian patriots fighting ISIS.
Syrians drinking tea from samovars and borscht, and wearing fur hats because it gets very cold in Syria in the winter.
2
How exactly is the media cheerleading anything? Seems to me you are keen to blame the media over nothing more than reporting the information out there. The media's job is to report, not be the propaganda arm of the government - telling people only what is convenient.
1
Russia is in Syria by the invitation of the internationally recognized, sovereign government of Syria (which was democratically elected).
America's presence there and its continued efforts at destabilizing the country are in violation of international law, just like Israel's or Turkey's violations of Syria's airspace and territory.
It doesn't take a stable genius to figure this one out.
33
A "sovereign government" that has murdered 400,000 of its own people with barrel bombs and poison gas.
We're there to defeat ISIS and support the Kurdish freedom fighters.
6
Syrian Government democratically elected ... seriously!? Please .... Putin's military is there because it needs an opportunity to perfect the use of chemical weapons on civilians. They figure some day they may have to deploy them in Moscow and are trying to learn a method of developing plausible deniability for the act ...this is a great lab for them. (You should find another city to live in)
4
I agree. It doesn't take a genius.
You just have to WANT to see it.
1
Interesting. Now it's Putin having to hit the fake news button for his own people to keep his deal with Trump intact.
3
Russians, Iranians,Turks, and above all, Syrian Government Forces are right to be fighting there to secure their region, lest the war and instability be drawn into their own countries. What the US forces are doing there is a mystery only likes of Henry Kissinger would know. It doesn't matter how Russian Media is reflecting the deaths, what actually is happening there is none of US and your business. The US divisive foreign policies with Trump is drawn inside the US itself so better be worried about terrorists and white supremacists there instead.
15
Don't you have something better to do in Iran, like being at war with Saudi Arabia?
1
George W. Bush may be enjoying higher approval ratings now that we are in the Trump era, but as a nation we will continue to pay a huge, huge moral and political cost for the flagrant decision to invade Iraq in 2003.
122
You are right of course, but the problem is the rest of the world, including Europe with its refugees, is paying a much much higher price than we are. We have destroyed the lives of 100s of millions of people because of Iraq War and its aftermath.
4
That war that is on a credit card that will never get paid.
1
This conflict concerns me greatly. With direct action between Russian and American forces occurring, the Turkish invasion to annihilate Kurds and the flare up with Israel in the Golan, the stage is set for things to accidentally get way out of hand. I wish I had some idea of what we could do, but it seems that no matter what we do, there will be fallout.
3
Well, the Heavy Falcon rocket launch the other day is encouraging .... the one-way ticket I purchased to Mars is becoming less virtual and more real. I am packed, ready to go and continuing my training on the Northwest coast of Greenland.
Anything seem strangely familiar about this statement? “He died, heroically defending our motherland in the far reaches against the invasion of maddened barbarians,” [said] the group, the Baltic Cossack Union in Kaliningrad.
3
This can’t be true. Trump doesn’t believe Russians would advance on or threaten US soldiers, so it’s impossible.
2
You would think that Putin and his cronies in the media and government would be jumping all over this, calling it a sign of American intrusion. Intentional signs of American hostility!
But it is a little awkward when even the most ardent Russian nationalists in the army don't believe their own government.
A strange moment for the government. Either appease your patriotic base by acknowledging the deaths but risk your secrets coming out and risk backlash from the international community, or keep quiet but lose some trust from your most loyal supporters.
Or maybe I'm making a big deal about. After all, Putin and his like have been shown to be masters of puppetry. They'll find some excuse. Not much can stop the KGB juggernaut.
5
Either due to the fog of war or malicious purpose, the U.S. carried out a massive aerial attack on Syrian Arab Army. Among those units were assault battalions staffed with Russians Mercs belonging to Wagner PMC. Based on social media comments, it seems a substantial quantity of Russian mercs were murdered in the area around the same time, which suggests the incident is the same event. The attack happened when the SAA subdivision that calls itself the ISIS Hunters moved to arrest several ISIS leaders, and the SDF reported fire within 500 meters of their positions and called in air and artillery strikes which are rumored to have killed 100 Russians in a 3-hour long assault by helicopters and ac-130 aircraft. It is a terrible situation. The U.S. claims it had no ill intentions in Syria, yet its massive military forces are mostly scened making deals with ISIS members and evacuating them by helicopter, and striking the Syrian army when it acts against ISIS. Now the intentions seem to be to establish a state for the Kurds out of northeastern Syria. It would trap American forces in the region indefinitely, because the moment they left, the Turks would step in and kill the Kurdish state. You cant just look at this attack out of context; there were two massive US assaults on Syrian troops in coordination with ISIS. Similar incidents occurred around the city of Deir-Ezzor, where US forces decimated the Syrian army with air strikes for an hour just before an ISIS attack on 9.16.15.
8
Incoherent, but does seem to say that our military are first-rate professionals. All the more power to them!
1
McAllen, Texas .... nonsense .... Former Soviet KGB office in Moscow. No-one would have such wonderfully fabricated detail of the incident in McAllen, Texas. There is enough detail to make it sound plausible to some poor dummy .... Of course, anyone who knows a thing or two would not be fooled.
1
Who are you and how can you substantiate anything in your comment? What are your sources?
1
Quote of the day here:
“He died, heroically defending our motherland in the far reaches against the invasion of maddened barbarians,” the Baltic Cossack Union in Kaliningrad said in the statement.
4
How do we rid ourselves of this outrageous and dangerous occupation of (our) White House?
Congress does nothing, yet the improprieties, insufficiencies, illegalities, indignities, abuses of power, lies, and egregious violations of the sworn oath trump took to uphold and protect the United States Constitution are occurring on a near-daily basis. Don't Congresspeople and Senators take the same oath to uphold and protect The Constitution? Why is nothing being done?
I can't hang my mouth open any wider or scratch my head any deeper or smack my forehead any harder. I live in an almost constant state of dread and anxiety over this ongoing violation of our nation's principles and laws.
I want to...do something...march! But where? With who? I sign endless on-line petitions and donate money to organizations like ActBlue, and I write to Senators and Congresspeople (my state's and other's), but nothing happens. The erosions of our democratic principles continue unabated, and I can't stand this feeling that we can only stand by and watch.
Please, someone - make it stop.
5
Just vote for democrats. After all, they, led by Hilary, followed their espoused principles and ignored the military industrial complex and prevented us from invading Iraq without good cause, right? Right, they did, didn't they? Oh, I forgot.
5
Now you feel what conservatives felt during the Obama years.
Yawn.
What an amazingly dishonest headline. The US was backing the defenders, not the attackers.
4
We are defending ourselves in a country where we have no legal right to be. Sounds like America.
3
This article begs the probably unanswerable question of exactly are the intentions of the USA and Russia in Syria now that ISIS and other Sunni extremist groups have largely been defeated there. Neither nation's leaders can be trusted further than they can be thrown, but at least we here in the US are not quite as cynical in our foreign relations as, and a tad more transparent than, the Ruskies.
On the other hand, our hypocrisy must seem staggering at times to foreigners. It certainly does to me. We condemn the imperialism and territorial thievery of other nations, and yet in "manifesting our destiny" we likely ethnically cleansed and misappropriated more territory of others than any other nation. We condemn governance by undemocratic means, and yet corporations and plutocrats unduly influence if not control all three branches of our federal government. And though we condemn dictatorial leadership, the powers of our president have grown virtually unchecked to the point that he can initiate and carry out wars for years around the globe without the consent of the people or their elected reps.
I for one would love greater transparency as to own government's plans in Syria, especially as to our Kurdish allies who saved the shedding of so much US blood by sacrificing their own as our boots on the ground in the fight against ISIS. Are we going to sell out the Kurds yet again to that ruthless demagogue Turk Erdogan and his massive military? God I pray we don't sink that low!
187
You know the answer to your own question.
Of course we're going to sell out our most honorable and effective allies, the Kurds. The kurds will never get a sovereign nation of their own without US backing and the US under Trump is not about to irritate Erdogan and the Turks by backing Kurdish sovereignty.
Trump likes strong leaders like Erdogan, Putin, Duterte. Bring on the MIlitary Parades in DC!!!!
3
I am not sure where you got the notion that we are not quite as cynical in our foreign relations as the Russians. Ask people in Yemen or Gaza or Iraq or for that matter Syria or Libya or Afghanistan or earlier, Vietnam, Latin America (come to think of it, ask human rights activists in Honduras) or East Timor.
I don't believe that we went into Syria for good purposes or that our news coverage is accurate or honest. You have to read between the lines on everything. Given our horrific record of bringing disaster everywhere we intervene in the Mideast, how could anyone take seriously the notion that we funded armed groups in Syria because we had the best interests of the Syrians in mind?
2
""manifesting our destiny" we likely ethnically cleansed..."
The world has changed after WWII. Now we have International law that bans such territorial thievery. You need to do some catching up.
Will no US politico stand up and ask why we are in Syria uninvited, and introduce legislation to defund all actions within Syria by American service personnel?
Dems, there is something to stand for.
Bring back universal conscription and send the dismembered body parts and body bags across the nation, and we will be out of there in a year.
4
Won't happen. The lesson of Vietnam for conservatives and the military is:
Don't let the folks at home see the body bags on TV. Like Mrs. Robinson, most of all we've got to hide it from the kids.
The all volunteer military is our own mercenary corps that insulates chicken hawks from having any skin in the game. They will never go back to universal conscription because it really impedes their ability to just deploy other people's kids regardless of consequence.
3
Putin is Donald Trump minus checks, balances, amd accountability. Russia needs democracy to compel its leaders to focus on prosperity at home and to show restraint abroad. In the meantime, I'm heartened to see Russia weakened, drained, and potentially tamed while validating that Islamist terror is not easily amenable to military solutions.
5
If somehow all of Russian nukes just vanished the world could finally treat it like the 3rd world dictatorship it is.
What? Doesn’t the US have any nukes? Is ‘vanished’ a verb? Better have a word with Bullwinkle.
The neanderthals in the Russian government will never learn that "if you play with matches, you'll get burnt".
6
Never pass up an opportunity to assert US exceptionalism!
10
I don't understand what is going on. I expect most Americans also do not understand the situation in Syria. There are conflicting stories and likely many lies being told. I don't know where any of this is going to end up, but it is probably nowhere good.
The conversation on the Russia investigation by Mueller has undeservedly nearly completed dominated the news cycle and stories such as this are far and few between. Especially among primary TV news outlets. TV news outlets need to do less of a disservice to the American public and get back to telling grounded stories that don't repeat the news from the night before in perpetuity.
49
“Undeservedly”? You’re either desensitized to the damage Trump’s inflicting on this country or consuming too much Republican propaganda. I mean, the NYT just published an article about official warnings that Russia is almost guaranteed to meddle in the upcoming election. Earlier today, we learned his administration has a 30-something% turnover rate at least half of which is related to the Russia investigation.
Trump makes Nixon and his cronies look like Boy Scouts while a third of the country is cheering him on. Like it or not, Democrats are virtually powerless right now. The press (well, some of it) is probably the only reason Mueller still has a job. If anything, there’s not enough focus on the investigation.
6
> I don't understand what is going on.
Put simply, the U.S. is using one terrorist organization to fight another.
Correct. And TV news endlessly gets panels of 'experts' to try to predict what will happen next. They talk for hours on end about guesses as to the future, instead of reporting all over the world what is happening on the ground NOW.
1
The US also outsources its own ex-military people to contractors (e.g., Blackwater), effectively turning its soldiers into mercenaries so their deaths aren't counted as losses to the military. In both the US and Russia this is an attempt by the state to make military activity less transparent to the public, and is thus undemocratic.
215
You nailed it Brian. Great point! We preached upon others without realizing we started a lot of these ideas.
6
Difference is that in this country those ex-military join the private groups by their own choice, in Russia they get "designated" (or otherwise known as do it or you get to visit the gulag for a number of years) to the groups by the government. But in both cases the private groups are ultimately at the beck and call of their governments or other governments. It appears to be an extension of government policy. China is no different. Reality is that people can try an imagine that we could live in a utopian state of complete transparency but that will never, repeat, never, happen.
1
Little Green Men. This is not a good sign. Will the result be escalation or de-escalation?
The LGM only become Russians when they win. They are mercenaries when they lose. Putin will not be happy about this.
There are Turks, Russians, Syrians, Kurds, Americans and many others in a fluid battle ground with competing aims and shifting alliances. Little good can come of this.
Congress needs to be paying close attention. Some serious decisions will need to be made soon.
25
Congress? Paying attention? Making serious decisions?
Surely you jest.
I know. Stop calling you Shirley.
1
Currently many of them are Former Little Green Men.
Syria has been split into tribal coalitions controlled by foreign governments. The war continues to kill the young, elderly and the innocent. Those who can afford to pay smugglers and/or have professional skills have fled or are in the process of fleeing the country.
16
Does this war have a name, why are we fighting, and how will we know if we won?
120
This is all part of the War for Global Empire. It's been going on since the end of WW2.
4
Conservatives mocked Obama for refusing to be drawn into the Syrian quagmire, remember? If you really want to get nervous, read yesterday's Op Ed about the very real chance that Israel will go to all-out war to drive Hezbollah and the Iranian military away from its frontier along the Golan Heights.
Congress and the media have decided to ignore a very explosive and very serious issue -- and all this could lead to disaster.
6
We're supporting Assad? Or rebels who support him? What is our mission? To enrich the military-industrial complex? We need to get out of the Mideast entirely. The leaders there control their media, brainwash their citizens, and rake in the money for themselves. Except, of course, for Israel, who has never asked for military aid from the US. Out of Afghanistan, out of Syria, out of Turkey, out of Saudi Arabia, out of Egypt, out of the backward Mideast despot-driven states (except for Israel, where we never had a military presence).
2
Russia is a Hollow Super Power with a deadly Nuclear arsenal and not much more. It wants to use the arsenal as it's calling card to be invited to the dinner table in Syria.Also, that's the only one country which has now embraced it and provided naval base to it. Russia wants to keep that unless the cost becomes unbearable.
29
Actually, it was already invited in Syria, contrary to the US that barged in Syria without invitation.
14
That Russian naval base on Syria has been there for decades. In an article last year the description of it seem to suggest it was more a refilling station compared to all the actual bases the US and its NATO have in the Mediterranean Sea. Russia will never abandon Assad if it were to lose the base. Having a warm water port has been the goal of Russia since the times of Catherine the Great. Any peace agreement on Syria would have to take that in consideration. Let’s end that war before Russians and Americans, mercenaries or soldiers start shooting each other, the possible collusion not withstanding...
8
Erwin Reyes, thank-you for pointing this out re: the Latakia naval base. The degree to which American journalists, and many of our politicians are ignorant of Russian history is appalling. Russia's rivalry with the US isn't a carryover from the cold war, as you likely know, but rather a continuation of the 19th century "Great Game" with the British empire. It's impossible for anyone to grasp what is going on in Syria without having knowledge of geopolitics viewed through this lens. Sadly, our journalists aren't merely partisan, but parochial and poorly read as well.
1
As usual, the Russians are lying. Obama blew his chance to confront Putin on Syria when he backed down on his "Red line in the sand" declaration. Since then, the Russians have solidified their presence in Syria, and virtually taken over Assad's power as dictator. Syria will be a Russian client state for a long, long time to come.
46
Obama didn't back down, he opted to pursue a different course, which was to help the Gulf Arabs set up and organize IS and Al-Qaeda in Syria. Unfortunately, that didn't work as well as had been expected: The Russians meddled and annihilated IS.
4
Wrong - Syria is a very long time client state of the USSR/Russia. They've never been in the western alliance. Obama is too smart to confront Putin in a country aligned against us where the locals hate us.
It's this type of "logic" that got us into Vietnam, Iraq, Libya, Somalia... No more; we've had too many of our young people die fighting unwinnable wars based upon flawed strategies, hubris and lies.
Read Eisenhower's "Cross of Iron" speech, it'll do you good.
9
Syria was a client state of Russia many decades before the Obama administration, so the knee-jerk Blame-Obama script won't work here. More appropriate to think in terms of the "Arab Spring" awakening all over the Middle East as having lit this particular fuse. Russia is trying to preserve its influence in Syria in the face of a popular democratic uprising against longtime Russian-backed Assad. The wisdom of the U.S. interfering in yet another Middle Eastern civil war is another matter.
32
Oh great- now we're in a proxy war with Russia in Syria. This doesn't seem like it will end well.
23
We are also in a proxy war with ourselves, mind you, since Syrian rebels (funded and armed by the US) have fought with Kurdish fighters (funded and armed by the US). There is no upside in Syria.
1
The Soviet Union introduced mandatory patriotic WW2 parades in the 1960s because the managed economy was sputtering and the Kremlin needed agitation and distraction -
What was born from that propaganda became a cult of worship that, over time, metastasized in the body politic into the form of parades and memorials and squares dedicated to the fallen that we in the West came to understand as part of the Soviet mentality in the modern era of television and global information -
But in the years immediately after WW2 the country never explored its inexplicable loss of as many as 27 million citizens from the fighting and deprivation that ensued - What this tells us is that the wounds of such a horrific tragedy were instead buried and sublimated into the collective psyche of the nation - the trauma became a great, unspoken presence -
To this day battlefield losses in Russia are phenomenally taboo - Chechnya, Afghanistan, and now Syria -
They will not admit to these losses because it is a genie that won't go back in the bottle once they do -
11
Any loss of life is tragic.
Our russian brothers, however, have killed a terrifying amount of civilians
6
may be your brothers, may be Trumps brothers, but not mine.
1
Not good.
I don't like these Tit for Tat opportunities.
Especially now when the Foreign service is so weakened and detente
is not a thing.
10
Foreign Service dept not weakened, just slimmed down
3
This all sounds like rumor and hearsay.
6
Of course it sounds like rumor and hearsay to you. Getting the facts out when governments are doing their best to keep them buried is hard.
Putin and company lie and obfuscate for a living.
That doesn't mean there is no factual reporting in this story or that people should not be aware of the analysis of the situation by experts based on what can be corroborated independently.
Typical Trumpublican approach, if you don't like the news, call it fake.
1
That is the power of Putin and Russian propaganda, they muddle the message so you don’t know what to believe.
1
Don't worry about North Korea, folks, worry about Syria - this is our next ground war.
7
Let's see if I got this straight. American forces backing Kurdish fighters fighting ISIS accidentally killed Russian mercenaries backing Assad also fighting ISIS while Israel hammers Iran and Saudi Arabia funds ISIS? Uhhhhh, okay....
202
You forgot Turkey. They're our allies and they're trying to kill our Kurdish allies.
7
It's a perpetual money making machine for the MIlitary Industrial Complex.
Just keep conditioning people in the US to worship the military and militarism so that any criticism of same is verboten amongst the general populace.
Flags, military parades, all the trappings of Nuremburg.
Meanwhile, outsource the dirty work to mercenaries, keep the wagons circled at the White House and Kremlin so there's no transparency to what is actually going on, and don't let any of those pesky media folks see what kind of carnage is actually transpiring.
And it's 1,2,3 what are we fighting for
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn
Next stop is Afghanistan
Be the first one on your block
to have your child come home in a box
4
Yes, and there there's that.
Good to see both the Americans and the Russians acting like mature adults in Syria. Advancing their positions but showing the much needed mutual respect.
Now it is time to mop up remainder of the American and Russian operations, and settle in for the long road back from hell in that country.
3
Russian nationals is not the same as Russian soldiers, and neither is the same as Russian military units.
The US does the same. We have Blackwater recruiting in South America and elsewhere, led by former soldiers. We have Special Forces that are secretive in the extreme, attached to proxy forces. We have CIA employing only the CIA knows who, some former soldiers.
Russians have an extra element, in that they are shifting to a volunteer army slowly, with what they call "contract soldiers." What is contracted for can be ambiguous. The US has done that too, and for a long time (Flying Tigers in China was a long ago example).
If these deaths were "deniable" then likely they will be denied -- that is the point of deniability. At the other extreme, if the US hit formed Russian military units, we are on the edge of serious escalation.
We need to know, urgently, just what we are really talking about. Russian or former-Soviet near Russians does not tell us what matters.
66
It's great that El Jefe Trump doesn't get bogged down in any of those pesky intelligence briefings and let's his gut feel guide him on matters of national security, which are really quite inconsequential at this point since El Jefe Trump is a wholly owned subsidiary of Putin Global Extortion Associates.
I think we also need to realize that the Russians are denying that they were engaging with American personal. They have no intention of stopping.