Me too. Filed for CO in early '70 while posted in VN, in non-combat assignment. Relieved. Went home at DEROS and released from active duty. In reserve control group. Application subsequently rejected as selective and essentially political (have to admit that was true). Had opposed war, not from beginning, but certainly pre-TET. Lucky to have had military assignments I could in conscience do, but ultimately the whole thing became too much to reconcile. Couldn't abide our Thai allies selling dope to GIs and trafficking in young Vietnamese girls for their brothels, which were on US bases as well. News of My Lai had recently come out.
I'm not buying it. Nothing stopped these guys from taking taxpayer funded education, degrees, and officer commissions, and then gaming the system because of an unpopular war.
Ignorant comment. Back in the 60s, US Army did not provide scholarships. Navy did for some cadets. Army ROTC graduates paid their own tuition, took Military Science courses and drills on top of full load of regular academic subject. OK, I recall a $27 per month stipend during the academic year, a free pair of leather combat boots and a class A uniform that couldn't be worn appropriately as an officer on active duty. What if Mrs. Proudie's corner of Maine had been declared a free-fire zone, whereupon anyone seen out in the fields would be shot, would she have liked being crowded into a city with no job? Who would tend to the fields? Maybe she could work as a housemaid on a base, or if young enough, in a bar.
I graduated from high school in 1964. This graduating class nationally suffered the highest killed in action rate of any graduating cohort during the war years. My classmates who didn’t attend college found themselves drafted and in country in 1966 and ‘ 67.As an Army ROTC grad, I didn’t make it to Vietnam until 1971. We essentially had three choices—we could serve in the military, we could refuse to serve and face jail, or we could flee the country. We didn’t start the war, politicians did that, and overall we served bravely. There was, of course, a fourth way out: John Fogarty’s “Fortunate Son”, typically rich kids whose family connections influenced local draft boards. I honor those who served, respect those who refused and those who left for Canada, and have nothing but contempt for those whose dad’s bought their way out.
1
A powerful article. Not many have the courage of their convictions, especially then.
I was filled with pride and shame by this column. Pride in these young men who served their country by upholding its Constitution and laws in all ways, by joining the military and the manner of their departures. I was a Navy brat, from a family with hundreds of years of military tradition here and in Europe. Mine was the last number called in the first Vietnam draft lottery. I would have faced a very difficult choice had I passed my physical, but my eyes were bad and I failed. I almost certainly would have gone to war, as my favorite uncle did, a Navy aviator who fought in WW2, Korea and Vietnam
But I had studied Vietnam and the war extensively as a college debater, and was convinced it was morally wrong, politically stupid and destined to fail. Had I gone, I would have betrayed my own brain and conscience. My career Navy officer Dad was dead by then; he had admired Muhammad Ali for refusing to go. He would have been the only one in our family who would have discouraged me from serving. Yet I probably would have gone, given how powerful our family tradition was. Without any doubt, I would have died there had I gone, or returned wishing I had given what I probably would have seen or done.
So I salute the men celebrated in this article. And do not condemn those who served, either; that was our country’s choice, after all. But that the war occurred at all is terribly sad, mostly for the Vietnamese, but for all others who participated as well. We will never learn, it seems.
Nothing about the war in Vietnam "upheld the Constitution," and for starters there is the minor issue that *only* Congress can declare war. A hint: they never did. And the Gulf of Tonkin was, and that has been verified, a study in intelligence fraud.
The American public -- by and large -- wants *desperately* to believe that every conflict our government gets us into is a noble clause. That is, and has been proven to be in the past, nonsense.
Reading through the comments and you're immediately struck by a few things: some replies are to salve the consciences of those who didn't serve in Vietnam and chose to allow others to serve in their place; by the many who are ill-read on the subject of the creation of South Vietnam and its climax(usually calling for "proof" because they are afraid to read something that might challenge their malformed ideas); and by those whose extreme politics compels them to demean or dismiss any opinion that differs with their own, making any rational discussion impossible.
3
And many of my closest friends made the decision to apply to and then - along with 1400 other fine individuals - to attend the Naval Academy in 1970, as students protested on college campuses. We did this for many reasons, but love of country was high among those reasons. I appreciate the New York Times' effort to revisit these six protesters. I hope they will revisit those who served, and fought, and the families of those who died during Vietnam '67 through '75.
3
Thank you for including John Kent's revulsion at the R&R scene in Olongapo. I was there 25 years later, and it was still, as you wrote, a "nightmare of degradation, all in service to and fostered by the American military."
How disturbing to see US Army doctors overseeing the licensing of Filipina sex workers and their regular STI checks--where the women described being "swabbed" like animals. And the bars, clubs, massage joints, and brothels were still everywhere then. The recruits I saw in the clubs and on the streets--mostly young men caught up in such a degrading scene--would look away so as not to have to meet the eyes of an American woman.
1
Why not write a column about the thousands of Americans who did their duty and served in Vietnam? Do any of the posters here know how many residents of North Vietnam were killed by their own government after the communists took power in 1955? Estimates run as high as 500,000. Their crime? They owned property and rented it out.
4
Last June in Middlebury Vt at the 50th reunion of my class we had a session on Vietnam moderated by 3 guys who had been over there. One is now a Col.in the national guard and specializes in PTSD for vets. The range of life changing experiences expressed by the over flow group including suicide of loved ones, survivor guilt, exile to avoid service, plain old broken marriages, and many others reveals a compassion for those who served more than newspaper coverage and comments could ever achieve.. The bottom line from the Col.- was "Be glad you are alive no matter what you did, objector, evader, or soldier."
2
This is the first I have heard of any organized resistance to the Vietnam War by the officer corp of the US military, though I knew and befriended several officers in Vietnam who were of the same frame of mind.
I am proud of my Vietnam service. I hated the place every minute I was there. I would return in a heartbeat. I protested the war after my return, blockading streets at the U. of Minn., chanting anti-war slogans, all the while still proud of my conduct in Vietnam. I wore my jungle fatigues, smuggled home in my "hold baggage," belongings shipped home by sea to arrive weeks and sometimes months after setting foot on American soil again. Hold baggage was so rarely inspected that many men smuggled home tens of thousands of dollar worth of pot, or military contraband --AK-47's being popular-- that way. I brought home fatigue shirts and pants.
But, in my 50 weeks in Vietnam, I never fired my M-16 at a human being. In Quan Loi, if you left your company area, you had to be armed, if only to go to the PX, less than 200 yards from where my cot and footlocker, the sum of my earthly possessions, lay, to get a carton of Marlboros, a roll Kodachrome or a case of Pabst.
My job was to save lives, not to take them. Someone in my company, an officer or senior NCO, thought I did my duties well enough that I deserved a pair of Army Commendation Medals and a Bronze Star for my efforts. Of those, I am proud, too.
I hated that war and that place.
I would return in a heartbeat.
1
Bravo, gentlemen! It takes a lot more courage to confront evil at home than it does to kill innocents abroad.
I salute you.
1
I was too young to be drafted, yet somehow I knew the war was wrong. As I watched the evening "body counts" night after night I realized we were being lied to. And so I protested. I was called a pinko commie. A stupid kid. Told I was unpatriotic. Four protestors at Kent State paid the ultimate price for protesting an immoral, unjust war in a place we had no business being.
The deaths of Alison Krause, Jeffrey Miller, Sandra Scheuer and William Schroeder shocked the nation. And changed the minds of many, including my pro-Nixon, pro-war Father.
Protestors were gassed, were beaten, were arrested, were scorned. Yet by bringing the war to a close several years early, they saved thousands, if not tens of thousands of lives of American GIs, as surely as if they had taken up arms. To me this makes them heroes.
In contrast to protestors, very few GI's actually got spit upon. As far as being called a commie, a dirty hippy, and unpatriotic for protesting Vietnam and the Iraq boondoggle, to me, that is a small price to pay for keeping American GI's out of unnecessary meatgrinders.
The war in Vietnam was undertaken basically for 1 reason: to send a message to Latin America that this is what will happen to you if you continue your revolts against the U.S. It really was that simple.
We still have examples of resistance to illegal and immoral government actions. Just ask those who are working to undo Obama's executive orders. Fight the powers!
1
Excuse me?
1) This article isn't even remotely about the previous administration.
2) President Trump signed 58 executive orders during his first year compared to President Obama's 39. Furthermore, there are currently five active investigations involving the Trump administration, compared to none at the of President Obama's first year.
Just who do you think your're kidding?
3
These men had the courage and strength to stand up for their beliefs in the face of authority's disapproval. While it is true that they had established channels to act on their objections, I do not underestimate the fortitude it took for these "All-American boys" to risk their futures, if not their lives, by their defiance. I fear that we live in times in which any of us may be called to stand up to abuse of authority and misuse of power. I pray, if called on, that I can summon similar courage. These men and their stories are an inspiration to me and a reminder that democracy is not free.
Traitors. Deserters. I am a West Point graduate, Class of ’84, and a proud veteran of four tours of duty in Iraq. Those guys put their right hands up in the air, just like I did, and swore the exact same oath I did. I kept my oath. They preferred to weasel out. When the guys who get paid the big bucks to make the tough decisions come to their decision (when the President and associated authority figures decide for war), that’s it, discussion ceases, everybody executes. You can’t have military people picking and choosing which wars they’ll fight in and which ones they won’t. That’s why we have civilian control of the military, remember? When the civilians whose job it is to make policy in fact make policy, those of us in uniform who are the mere implements of policy salute and do our duty. When those guys took their (ironic quotation marks) “principled stand,” they left in the lurch, they abandoned, all their comrades-in-arms in Vietnam who were doing their duty and getting willingly killed, maimed, or driven crazy as the price of honoring their commitment to loyalty. Does *no one* in this country understand that word anymore, “loyalty”? Any grammatical errors in this posting are due to the angry haste in which I wrote it.
6
To supplement my previous posting above, I now remind everyone that in Washington, D.C., there is a highly polished stone wall with 58,318 names carved into it. I wonder which names are there in place of the names of the six individuals who wrote this essay, congratulating themselves for their act of desertion?
2
These men are not deserters. Conscientious objection is protected in US law and military regulations. Many believe it is protected by the first amendment of the Constitution which you, S. Richey, took an oath to defend.
2
"Traitors. Deserters"? You boast of the oath you took but do not seem to understand it, much less honor it. Remove the beam from your eye.
USAFA, Class of 1975
3
Reading about these officers who were conscientious objectors and brave enough to stand up for their beliefs gives me hope that there may be some like them in today's military who will resist when they get the order to begin what could be our last war, the "limited nuclear war" the Trump administration seems to think would be possible. As a child of the 50's, I remember the fear I felt during the Cold War thinking that the Russians were going to drop a bomb on my neighborhood. Those fears have come back to me a little bit recently, when Trump ratcheted up his threats against North Korea. I just hope there are men and women of strong character and conscience in our current military who will resist taking our country into the next war, which could likely be the end of everything we know.
1
Despite the passing of 50 plus years, the raw emotions expressed in this piece and by many readers who have submitted comments is a boldfaced commentary on the enduring and unintended consequences of America's military misadventure in Vietnam. Like many who have submitted comments, I was subject to the draft, and immediately following college was a draftee. By that time, I was convinced that the entire basis for America's involvement in the war was built upon lies, and I couldn't accept the rationale for the draft lottery in the face of its numerous hypocrisies. Two notable hypocrisies being the legal voting age of 21, which also happened to be the legal age to purchase alcoholic beverages in most states. It may sound somewhat petty today, but I couldn't square America's authority to draft young Americans to fight and die in a blazing hot war when it found those same Americans too young to be entrusted with the right to vote or simply to purchase a beer.
Somewhat ironically, I was one of the last draftees in March 1973. I chose to enlist in the Navy, and was put on a wait list for the occupational training I selected. By this time, the wheels were coming off both the Nixon administration and its interest in continuing the war. In the end, I never was called into service. Years later, I made attempts to document my military status, and learned that the military depository for these records had burned to the ground in 1978, destroying all records. It seemed like justice.
2
These men are heroes. But why didn't more soldiers show this courage? Why did hundreds of thousands of other young men blindly follow orders for years to participate in this immoral, long-lasting fiasco? There was a lemming mentality in the people who followed orders to kill innocent civilians and to participate in any way in that murderous war.
For the past decade 'we' (the US military) have been engaged in "generational conflicts" (quoting David Petraeus) of the same general, unfocused nature as the Vietnam War. Why do individuals participate in these murderous military escapades? We need many more to speak out like the men profiled in this article.
1
During the Vietnam war 3,275 military personnel were approved as conscientious objectors.
Now we fight with drones (off-site control) and private well-paid contractors. No more worries.
1
Interesting read. I have to wonder what I would have done if I would have been in any of these six men's shoes. Would I have done what they did? Would I have been a protester? Would I have accepted the draft, done my time and prayed to come home in one piece? Would I have volunteered, and sought out a commission to have the privilege of leading men in battle. Would I have driven north, not stopping until Moosehead Beer was considered a domestic? It's all speculation. One can truly never know. All that is for certain is to give those from this era a fair hearing and then draw our own conclusions...and lessons.
Jeno Berta
Iraq Veteran 2009
2
In 2000, I returned to Vietnam, an hitched a ride to a road going east of the abandoned base of Chu Lai. Ten miles east, by motorcycle, we encountered a bustling military base managed and operated by former NVA soldiers. After entering the command headquarters, tea and water was served and the District Chief entered and introduced himself, then asked me, 'What is your purpose coming here?' Me: 'I served as fighter for the Americans, and wanted to come back this time in peace. I probably fought your comrades in the rice paddies just across the way.' He says, 'We have not seen a Westerner here in 30 years, and you are welcome in peace. Be my guest.' Next day, I walked into a thatched-roof hut, and a woman about my same age, but far more aged physically, turned and looked me in the eyes. It was the expression of unadulterated anger and desperation. She was a villager I had met back in 1969, while serving as a combat infantryman in the field. Her question haunts me to this day, she asked me in an angry, shaking voice, 'Why did you leave! Why did you leave us here to this torture! You betrayed us even as we supported you!' What I am saying is, there is at least one person, whose life and family since the end of the war was destroyed and family members killed or kidnapped. The domino theory, the principled stands, the loss, mean so little in the face of one person who was ruined and remains ruined in a TB infested set of hamlets. I see no virtue in this.
2
This article is so appreciated, as it has brought tears to my eyes and taken me back over these past 50 years. I was honorably discharged from the Navy in August of 1970, as a CO. I was an ensign at the time, having refused a promotion to Lt, JG that spring. I am so thankful fir the the Quaker office of the Central Committee for Conscientious Objectors, in Philly, where I schemed to be stationed, for their assistance which gave me the strength to do the right thing. I had to go to federal court and Judge Leon Higgenbottom ordered my honorable discharge.
We learned then that it was our responsibility to resist that evil war and to stand up for what is right, despite our privileged backgrounds and positions. The same is so true today, as we all have a responsibility to actively join the Resistance to the racism and sexism coming out of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, and the cabinet of robber barrons.
Peace, Joe Heath
7
I respect those officers' right to their opinions and actions. I was an enlisted man in the Navy and a Vietnam veteran. The whole situations is far too complex to be reduced to simplistic perceptions and assumptions. Despite the horrific, but isolated abuses, to this day I believe that what the United States was trying to accomplish in Vietnam was honorable, and ultimately successful. We forget that just ten years prior, the United States had successfully defended South Korea ... what we did in Vietnam can be seen to have arisen from that successful experience. And what we accomplished was to force the hand of the Soviet Union, to show that they had the mettle to take on a difficult task (as opposed to invading Czechoslovakia). So they went into Afghanistan in 1979 and ceased to exist ten years later. I understand someone who was drafted as an enlisted person into a conflict they disagree with. I disagree with those who volunteered for the privilege of serving as an officer, who then change their minds. Too many enlisted folks had to do what they were told to do, and were let down by officers who wouldn't do the same. But I respect their right to believe and do as they did.
1
"And what we accomplished was to force the hand of the Soviet Union, to show that they had the mettle to take on a difficult task (as opposed to invading Czechoslovakia). So they went into Afghanistan in 1979 and ceased to exist ten years later."
Not sure I see the logic there. Because the Soviet Union made the same mistake in Afghanistan that the United States made in Vietnam, Vietnam was a success?
3
So the war in Vietnam was not about freedom for the South Vietnamese but to somehow force the hand of the Soviets to engage in future wars so they would be defeated by lack of mettle?
Oh boy.
The war in Vietnam was about holding the line against Communist expansion. There were a number of coincidences that ensued. One was that we fought to defend South Vietnam with the goal of achieving a South Korean style victory. Another coincidence was that it did force the Soviets to demonstrate similar resolve, which was either causal or coincidental to their collapse.
The mistake that popular accounts has made has been in oversimplification and personalizing Vietnam. It did not occure in isolation, it was part of a much larger global environment, which also included the Cuban missle crisis of 1961 and the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968. It wasnt all abut us, or South Vietnam.
2
American culture and mentality are not suited to cope with insurgencues. We want to know the score and which side has the momentum. Otherwise, we lose interest and tune out. It happened during the last two years of the Korean War, in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. We need to know the location of the front lines, and which way they are moving. If these scoreboards are non-existent, we should just pull out. Vietnam should be evaluated in the context of the times. In the 50s and 60s, communism seemed to be advancing everywhere. Uprisings in Hungary and Czechoslovakia were brutally crushed. The Republican campaign cry was “Who lost China?” The true answer was the corrupt regime of Chang Kai Chek.
Wise leadership should have kept us out of Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq. I served in Nietnam, and my son served in Iraq. I can respect those who avoided Vietnam, because they considered it an unjust war, while despising those who avoided it because of cowardice, like Romney and Trump.
3
These men had gumption, the will power to see through the lies they had the morality to make the hard core decision and say “no.” They lived, discharged as Conscientious Objectors, to become professionals contributing real value to society. Mr. McMahan was honorably discharged as a result of his 1970 case.
The rules must have changed from when I applied for discharge as a Conscientious Objector in 1969 at Ft Jackson SC. I was turned down twice. When I applied for a habeas corpus, backed by the ACLU, the response of the US Army was to put me in handcuffs and fly me in the back of a civilian aircraft to Ft. Lewis Wa, out of the court jurisdiction. There, after I refused to train, I was put up for a general court martial which would have carried 5 years at Ft. Leavenworth, a congregation point for military criminals.
Having no particular desire to hang out with military criminals, and realizing no justice was to be had, I found a way to Canada.
My case for Conscientious Objection was at least as compelling as that of the six gentlemen who wrote this sterling article. I salute them, but not with a “yessir” hand salute, but as an equal with a recognition of similar principles.
My fate with the military was far different than these Officers, but then I was just a Private, not even First Class when I refused to fight the unjust war. Eventually, even my father, a retired USMCR colonel said, “Son, you did the right thing.”
7
The Vietnam war has been such a tragedy. It is good to hear that there have been people opposing it with a clear mind. Thank you for this article.
3
Thanks to all of you. Your courage, followed by action, make me proud to be an American.
My own experience was somewhat darker. Those of us who stayed behind knew of the horror, and refused to participate. We did not always have easy paths. There was a professional poker player contingent in Bay Area cardrooms in the 1970's, bright graduates of Berkeley and Stanford. Going corporate or hippie were not options. Not many others appeared to be available.
Nihilism seemed to be a more relaxing path. Ultimately it was not, and my hat is off to you for not giving up on your efforts to effect change and do good.
2
Thank you for sharing this. I can only begin to understand in particular, from a distance of time, but I think we all would be well served to try to understand fully. Right now.
My father taught at the U.S. Air Force Academy, Colorado. From an early age, I wanted to wear his blue uniform and fly the jets he flew, but that plan was dashed as a result of my attending a presentation to the Academy staff and guests in 1963 about the Strategic Hamlet program by a South Vietnamese military officer,
The Strategic Hamlet program was intended to keep the rural populace from supporting the Viet Cong by forcing peasants into government-controlled villages. The Vietnamese officer had unwittingly revealed to this high school student the hypocrisy of U.S. involvement in the Vietnam war: the U.S. was meddling in a civil war and sided with the authoritarian South Vietnam regime – the wrong side.
After that evening, I could no longer aspire to attend the Air Force Academy. Ironically, a year and a half later my graduating class had the most appointments to the USAF Academy of any high school in the nation.
That was the year, too, my father, who had just finished his Academy tour, was strongly urged by the generals to volunteer for combat duty in Vietnam . He refused; for he, too, understood the values for which he fought in WW II were being undermined by our involvement in Vietnam, but his courage in this regard was to undermine his Air Force career.
While resisting the war was necessary, if unplanned, I inevitably felt a kind of survivor's guilt about others of my generation dying on foreign soil when I was relatively safe on American soil.
7
JKBerg,
Why was South Vietnam the wrong side.
Surely it was far more tolerant the the Dictators who ran
and destroyed North Vietnam by fighting a war that need not be fought.
1
John Brown - Read up on the early history of the war. Ho Chi Minh admired American ideology and the American Revolution. In Vietnam, for reasons of geopolitics, the US backed the Tories rather than the Patriots. From far away the geopolitical arguments had some validity (Domino Theory etc.). But up close, the "enemy" were people who wanted to determine the fate of their own country - they were people who did not threaten the US in any way.
In the event, the North Vietnamese revolutionaries got war from the US rather than support because, among other reasons, the US wanted France as a strong ally against the USSR.
It is possible to argue that the Vietnam War helped to limit Soviet influence for maybe a decade or two. But given that the ostensibly "communist" Vietnamese people now embrace capitalism and warmly welcome the Americans who once wrought so much destruction upon them, it is hard to conclude that the war was just and necessary.
3
Mike Marks,
Thank you for your reply.
I am still puzzled why it seems to be a given that the
North Vietnamese were seen as the "good guys" by so
many commentators when they were a ruthless dictatorship
that carefully planned massacres during the Tet Offensive and shelled civilians on purpose.
1
Very proud of you guys. I suspect that few readers know how incredibly emotionally difficult it was to "not" support one's country. My uncles, my dad, my brothers, served. I didn't have the emotional and intellectual strength when I was 19 to do what you officers did. But I knew in my heart and mind when I was in Vietnam that the war was pointless.
Reading portions of "The Pentagon Papers" in 1971, and then the book, a mere year after my return from the war, and learning that my heart had been right, and my decision wrong, was rending.
What you officers did in the face of power is worthy of the highest civilian honor the nation can bestow.
12
OK, so we support, in every way possible, those in the military who made a reasoned choice that Vietnam was wrong. I personally applaud them.
Those who made that same decision -- in many cases every bit as reasoned -- that *weren't* in the military were, and still are, called everything but a Reuben Sandwich.
I was draftable in 1970 and I would have left the country, if necessary, for good rather than fight that war (and I am not looking for a badge on my breast). But I continue to wonder how, say, McBride and others who are bitter about their past -- and they are *clearly* bitter -- deal with those of us who made the decision he was unable to: just say no. At whatever cost.
That divide continues to exist all these decades down the road, and I suspect McBride's bitterness is one of the reasons that sustain that division. And I suspect -- I can't know -- he continues to separate himself from those who made a decision that he couldn't at the time. As if their decision was wrong and they should be punished for that decision.
This country has a long and sordid history of being led into unwarrented conflicts by those in charge. This is no reflection on those who served.
9
I wonder if there are other service people who became antiwar in the late 60s but who have come to regret their antiwar stand. I was in the Air Force from 1964 to 1968. I had no combat role but my work supported bombing raids in Laos on the Ho Chi Minh Trail. After my time was up, I marched and politicked against the war.
I was wrong. Long after the war's end, I started reading reliable histories. I have become convinced that the North Vietnamese were among the greatest mass murderers of the past century. Yes, some Americans were brutal, but the North Vietnamese deliberately killed millions before, during, and after U. S. intervention. And make fun of the domino theory all you want, but Thailand, Malaysia, and Indonesia did not descend into the communist hell that the North Vietnamese brought to Cambodia, Laos, and their own people. The clear objective of Ho Chi Minh - to transform all of Southeast Asia - was frustrated by the war.
I blame the press. The press did not tell the story of the Viet Cong's rigorous 30-year program of assassination and terror. It was much easier to point out the flaws in U. S. strategy. The Tet offensive destroyed the Viet Cong. A united effort after Tet could have prevented the deaths of millions of Vietnamese.
I'm embarrassed that I thought in 1970 that the North Vietnamese and their Viet Cong were simply patriots trying to repel invaders. They were butchers. I wonder if other formerly antiwar people have come to the same conclusion.
4
"Long after the war's end, I started reading reliable histories."
What are these reliable histories, because they don't seem particularly reliable. The combined population of both Vietnams was only some 42 million in 1970. It's pretty remarkable for North Vietnam to kill millions. That's not say the people who ran the country were nice guys, but how could they even have a functional country eliminating such a massive chunk of their own population? Where is the proof that Ho Chi Minh had a master plan to turn Southeast Asia communist? He had to resort to two guerilla wars just to control Vietnam. Vietnam was hardly a military power. The only wars Vietnam fought after unification was against two other communist states: against Pol Pot's Cambodia and China, which backed Cambodia.
1
God how I admire these men. They are heroes every last one of them.
Each one listened to that small, inner voice within that whispered this is wrong. We need more like them today. They served their country, just in a different way. And in doing so, saved countless lives of their own countrymen.
10
The Greatest Generation? Not even close.
How dare you compare these men - who stood up against an unjust, immoral war - to men, like my father, who chose to fight in WW2? After my dad, a proud marine who fought in the South Pacific, learned about the hypocrisy and lying by the American government in regard to Vietnam, he also chose to speak out against the war. Blind obedience to the government is not patriotic.
1
I didn't have the courage in 1965 to do what these brave and honorable men did. I just floated down stream and did what was expected. Vietnam and its wonderful people changed me. I joined the Vietnam Veterans against the War and was marching near Pete Seeger in 1969 when John Kent heard the crowd singing John Lennon's "All we are saying is give peace a chance."
I'm so happy John heard us.
15
These men gave up their naval careers by choosing to become conscience objectors but they did so according to their honest beliefs that this War was just plain wrong, not because they had become radicalized against the whole system as did a lot of other people. There was honor in how they chose to act, consistent with what is expected of naval officers.
Anyone who actually studied the purposes of war and diplomacy during the Cold War understood that the aim was to prevent the great adversaries of the West and the great adversaries of the Communist East from advancing into the other's territory while avoiding a real shooting war that might escalate into a world destroying nuclear exchange. But neither side could trust the other enough to reach an understanding that allowed them to live peacefully on the same little planet. So little conflicts and diplomatic games were proceeding around the world, influenced or run by either side. Little countries like Vietnam were being treated like pawns in this great game, and that meant many innocent people who had no stake in this greater conflict could lose everything for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. But it was not just them, but the millions of soldiers and sailors who could be placed in harms way in the furtherance of a game about which they would never be given any knowledge about which they risked their lives. The deterring of Russia and China from exceeding their boundaries was the real goal of the War.
2
And those goals were not met, in fact, America failed miserably because it injected itself into a civil war. It wasn’t just about the superpowers fighter each other by proxy, it was a civil war.
1
The specific goals for Vietnam were to prevent the unification by the Communists who had driven out the French. To do that required creating a unified population in the South to make an anti-Communist nation. It was not nation building but nation creating by the U.S. to assure it would go right. But it was not an effort that was thoroughly considered and it became an uncoordinated endeavor with the supposed allies often working at cross purposes. It did not take long for intelligent people to understand that accomplishing the goals was not at all predictable, it was an aspiration without a good plan by a country that had succeeding with all kinds of things it had attempted in recent times. It had optimism based on faith.
These individuals are to be congratulated for their bravery. It isn't often easy to follow your conscience, to keep your head when all about you people are falling obediently into line. This obstinence too is part of the American tradition (see John Brown); one that is among the most noble and praiseworthy.
11
These men and the actions they took to not participate in the Viet Nam war are inspiring. I am hoping that there are similar men and women today--law enforcement officials--who are willing to not participate in the racist police brutality and ICE raids that the current administration seems to encourage so much. The authors have my gratitude for a very well written, hopeful piece.
11
Gov. George Wallace true to stand up to the Federal Government's powers. History has make examples trying to fight the powers.
And now you've seen Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and now Lebanon. And Trump is in the White House. What lessons have you learned about the world's greatest democracy?
7
Good, and thank all six of you. Another Vietnam era myth put to bed.
7
Antiwar looked easy. It wasn't all weed and leftwing lectures. I had to wipe tears from Penn State students who needed a high grade to escape the draft. I had to tolerate Maoist kids who hated the war and America more. I was forced against a wall by a policeman in civvies at Penn State, who was going to pull me in for having a NJ driver's license - really for wearing a "Draft Beer, not Boys" pin. I reminded the man that he had stopped me while walking. He was upset and left in a roar of tires of his unmarked car. The next week he skidded into a tree and was killed.
I did not mourn. Even at State you didn't need a license for walking.
At the first March on the Pentagon, I saw jeeps and GIs inside every building along the mall, and at the Pentagon, snipers, eavesdropping antennas, and filmmaking officers were on every part of the roof. Yet young girls were sticking flowers in the rifles of equally young soldiers. I watched and saw the pain in the boys' faces. But when night fell, the girls were chased and some beaten by gas-masked men wearing uniforms of GIs but without unit i.d., and the blood I saw was real. It was the worst of times - and, somehow, the best, for the first marchers were not objectors. They were Wounded Vietnam Soldiers. Heroic once, heroic twice.
11
Just a reminder, Daniel Ellsberg was a former marine colonel, working in the highest levels of the pentagon before he left for Rand Corp. He was a fact finder for the military in Viet Nam. The leaking of the Pentagon Papers were the result.
us army 1069-1971/california jd
2
These people were neither honorable nor courageous. They did contribute to our countries dishonorable abandonment of the Republic of Vietnam. They were, and are, cowards who were afraid to fight. I went to Vietnam in 1955, near Haiphong, as my ship assisted in the evacuation of the many thousands who did not wish to live under communist rule. In 1965, 1966 and 1967 I served in the Tonkin Gulf aboard another Navy ship, then spent 1968 and part of 1969 in-country in Saigon and Can-Tho. Since then I have known dozens of Vietnamese who fled the communist takeover. All of them sacrificed much to escape and some had truly horrible experiences in doing so. I believe I have a better grasp of the war, and the consequences, than these cowards who were afraid to go in harm’s way.
The loss of the Republic of Vietnam has led directly to communist China’s near total occupation of the South China Sea and the diminshment of American prestige, influence and power.
Hopefully these cowards have not bred and passed their genes to future generations.
CPO, USN, Retired
4
A shame you weren't around to speak of for the Vietnamese back when the French imposed colonial rule. That's what caused Communism to flourish. And having a racist in the White House during the Treaty of Versailles.
7
Perhaps these men were thinking of our country's dishonorable killing of millions of peasants and others caught in a terrible war fought not for them or their "freedom" but for the cynical geopolitical and economic interests of a powerful nation several thousand miles away, a nation willing to "pacify" them by napalming villages, herding families into "strategic hamlets, poisoning their land with Agent Orange herbicide and dropping more bombs on them than were dropped in World War II.
Perhaps what led to the "diminishment of American prestige, influence and power" in the world was not the loss of the war but the tragic overreach and moral bankruptcy of America's involvement in the war, in which case we should thank these men for their courage in preserving at least some honor for themselves and, by extension, for their nation.
3
Just because you fought and disagree with what they did doesn’t make these men cowards any more than you are a hero. A true hero would respect others’ well thought through decisions and actions; not call them cowards. I have no doubt they would have respected your decision.
2
Gentlemen,
Thank you your conscientious service.
And for reminding us that good hearts beat then and beat now in the breasts of millions of Americans who have been and are aghast at what has been done in our name.
6
This account of officers who were active in the antiwar movement during the Vietnam war era brings back my own memories of that time. I was in grad school in the early 1960s in DC when I joined the National Guard as an alternative to being drafted. Later I moved to Pennsylvania and, unable to find an opening in the Guard, was put into a pool of civilian soldiers who had not fulfilled their six-year military obligation. Shortly after the USS Pueblo was captured by the North Koreans in Jan. 1968, I was called to active duty and ordered to Ft. MacArthur outside Los Angeles. At an interview for a promotion to E-5, I faced a young captain just back from Vietnam and a sergeant major. After several routine questions, the captain noted that I was a college graduate and asked me, “Why did you shirk your duty by not becoming an officer?” That set me off on a rambling—but under the circumstances, surprisingly coherent—argument against the war, based on my readings of Hans Morgenthau and others. As I made my points (about the false domino theory and the failure to understand Vietnamese nationalism, and so forth), the captain was clearly stunned. The sergeant’s jaw dropped—literally. I got the promotion as I was clearly qualified. But two months later I was transferred from a country club base on the Pacific to Ft. Irwin in the Mohave Desert.
4
I was commissioned in 1968 after attending Infantry Officers Candidate School. Heck, I knew very few within my OCS cohort that were NOT against the war, including those of us who were sent to Vietnam. I remember many stating they were not antiwar, they were simply anti-that-war -- a sentiment also strongly held by my Dad who flew fighters in both WWII and Korea.
6
Does anyone care about Vietnam.. How about discussing the War of 1812 next?
1
The tens thousands of families who lost their loved ones still care very, very much.
1
These men and their actions to not participate in the Viet Nam war are inspiring. I am hoping that there are similar men and women today--law enforcement officials--who are willing to not participate in the racist police brutality and ICE raids that the current administration seems to encourage so much. The authors have my gratitude for a very well written, hopeful piece.
2
These men were the true heros of the Vietnam war. I got lucky, I turned 18 in 73 and missed the war by a hair, but I sweated it out from the time I was 13. Not a chance in hell I was going.
3
Why was it better, if it was better, for
North Vietnam to be given a free hand to impose
its dictatorship on the citizens of South Vietnam ?
Would these same men have refused to defend West Germany
if it had been invaded by East Germany during the 1960's ?
Can someone please answer these questions.
2
Nobody stood up for Viet Nam when the French imposed Colonial rule.
5
John Brown:
VietNam is and was for a long time one country. It was artificially divided by outsiders.
Secondly, there already was a civil war going on in the southern part, against the government that the US supported.
The USA simply did what it always does, intervene in a acivil war, and with disastrous results for all parties, including US soldiers.
2
Revolutionary communists (see last paragraph in the article) are responsible for more misery and death by a large multiple than ever occurred in the Vietnam War. Proud of that, are you, authors? Count up death and devastation caused by Lenin, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot for a start.
3
And I guess our involvement in Vietnam and Cambodia saved multiple millions of people from misery and death rather than just adding to the total. Is that what you're saying?
2
You forgot to mention the French brutal colonial rule over Vietnam. Selective memory to prove your point undermines your argument. We got involved in a brutal civil war and propped up a corrupt dictator - it was a stupid, unjust and completely ill conceived intervention which the Pentagon as early as 64 were telling the President was unwinnable. But whatever, the facts don’t fit your narrative so who cares?
3
This brought tears to my eyes, tremendous gratitude to young men who thought deeply and felt the need to resist, even after being indoctrinated by the military.
We need more of this today. Our society has become too militarized. And resistance to that is seen by some, including a draft dodger in the White House, to be unpatriotic. But principled resistance must be respected and so I thank these men for describing why they resisted and how their principled stands have shaped their lives.
I am just so grateful!
7
These men were, in fact, very brave men, and they were operating in an official environment that was psychologically much more oriented to their view than was obvious at the time. I knew in 1965 from an M.I.T.-educated Navy officer that his colleagues were widely ignoring notices in his Bachelor Officer's Quarter asking for volunteers for combat duty in Vietnam. Just so, these men had the courage to make themselves vulnerable to retaliation and punishment as others did not.
2
We need to hear more like this from our finest and bravest: the CO's and draft resisters who fought against the war and against war. Too often in this series we hear violence--often gratuitous--glorified and the unjust invasion of Vietnam taken for granted as necessary.
I came to Chicago in '64 for college and began to protest, and didn't stop until the war was over. No one I knew in my class of '68 allowed himself to be drafted. My ex-husband just said he was gay. But the men in this article did things that were even braver.
In graduate school, in '71, I met a young man who had been a captain in Vietnam. One day he spontaneously began to tell a story of how young Vietnamese GIRLS had all their teeth pulled so that they would be better at giving American GI's better oral sex. I cried for them.
5
Several uncles and both of my parents served in WWII.
Two of my maternal uncles saw heavy action and were highly decorated. One was barely 18 when he went ashore at Normandy and fought through the Battle of the Bulge and beyond, receiving a purple heart and a silver star. He in turn had two sons-- one ten years older than I who was drafted in '67 and the other who was my age, too young to go.
We headed back east in '69 to see my mom's very close knit family. We drove through the smoldering aftermath of race riots in Columbus, Ohio, and there were more race riots going on a few miles from where we were staying over in York, Pennsylvania. It was quite a shock for this patriotic young Kansas boy to see tanks and soldiers patrolling the streets in real life, not on TV-- where every night the graphic footage of the Vietnam war appeared on our nightly news; unlike today's sanitized "imbedded" news coverage, for in those days the cameras were right there with the troops showing us the hell.
As the adults sat around grandma's kitchen table talking one evening and we younger cousins listened (his son who had served in Vietnam was not present), this particular uncle-- for whom I was named and who had several times shown me his "souvenirs" from WWII including a complete German uniform-- said something that I will never forget. This highly decorated, brave, great American patriot simply said that if they ever came for his other son, he would personally drive him to Canada.
23
I served in Vietnam and am glad i had the chance to serve. My education is as good as any of those mentioned i this article. I grew up in a working class family and my father came to the US from Scotland at age 12 in 1912. My mother was born in the US but her parents came from Northern Europe about the same time as my father. My father worked in the WV coal mines after high school but moved Niagara Falls 10 years later where he met and we’d my mother.
I was bright in math and science and won a N.Y. state regents scholarship. I received a BS in mech eng from SUNYB in 1958 and an AFROTC commission. Being color blind, I could not be a pilot but chose to become a weather officer. When I went to Vietnam in June 1966, I had a BS in meteorology from NYU, 2 masters from MIT (aero-Astro and weather) and 2 years as post doc at Goddard Space Flight Center. In Vietnam, I managed a then-classified USAF weather satellite ground station. I felt I was following in my grandfather’s foot steps since he had shared 3 battle fields with Winston Churchill.
I thought it was a righteous effort in 1966. My primary question today is whether we could have won the war had we not been guided by the stupid policies of Robert McNamara and had laid waste to North Vietnam, instead of playing patty cake in our Air War. I attended Air War College in 1973, joined by about 30 ex-POWs. Their hands had been tied by insane restrictions.
I now believe all wars are stupid. I don’t disparage COs.
14
In the 1940s the US population's willingness to be obedient and disciplined created a military that literally saved the world. Just 20 years later our leaders were calling upon the population's willingness to be obedient, now an established tradition, for a cause that was not central to our defense.
How do we as a democracy kindle enough marshal spirit within our population to ensure we can defend ourselves? How do we kindle enough wisdom and restraint in our leaders to ensure that a powerful military is not used except as a last resort?
9
..."it's the economy stupid?" If the US Government ratchets the MIC down to what is necessary and affordable, then where is the Economic Plan to avoid recession/ depression as we remove the Financial Tentacles of the Machine that's been created?
Just how do we turn our Swords into Plowshares?
(didn't mean post stupid as a personal remark Mr. Drake...it is part of that 1990's quote)
2
An authoritarian government would lock up commissioned officers who refused to fight. So I am proud that my country granted them CO status, just as I am respectful of those who employed legal means to pursue their honest beliefs.
I was also on the Mall singing "Give Peace a Chance" and meant it. Through my college studies I had come to realize that our war policy was a mess, and so we would probably lose. But the next day I was at my morning formation across the river at Fort Meyer before heading off for my Vietnamese class.
My family were early converts to the Quaker church as a result of founder George Fox's visit to the colonies in 1670s. As a result of his visit a forebear, Sgt. Joseph Dow, resigned from the military possibly becoming the first CO in our history. But that story takes a different turn when one of Joseph's descendants left the Quaker church because the elders refused to let him fight in the Civil War. Future Union general Neal Dow's childhood home in Portland, Maine was a stop on the Underground Railroad and he decided that there are actually principles worth fighting and killing for.
What was mine? Carl Shurz -- a refugee from the 1848 uprisings in German, also a Union general and later a US senator -- has a quote, the first half of which is widely known: "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." Different strokes I guess.
20
There but for the grace of god (and a slightly longer war) go, the son of an Air Force officer who anticipated following my dad into the service in some way. Then Vietnam happened and opened my eyes to a lot of things, most of all the hypocrisy and venality of most American politicians.
“Are you listening, Nixon?”
You might think that Seeger was being overly optimistic with that refrain, but there's more to it than that. Left unmentioned in the article was the fact that in the 1968 election, Nixon was the peace candidate.
I know, hard to believe after subsequent events. But Hubert Humphrey and George Wallace were definitely NOT the peace candidates. Around the air base, there was a lot of hope that Nixon wasn't flim-flamming us all. It's pretty clear that when you peek behind the scenes, the courage of those who refused service in Vietnam detailed here was but the tip of an iceberg of a professional military already seeing the handwriting of failure on the wall by 1968.
Nixon probably was never as serious about this as some believed -- but they wanted to believe. And the disappointment that resulted only hardened the opposition to the war. Certainly, Nixon could have wrapped this mess up as a failed project of the Dems, but instead he went all in and it became Nixon's war. More Americans died after he was elected than they did before, prolonging the even greater agony of the Vietnamese.
We so often have hope, but so rarely have those who serve the people. Nixon didn't.
10
"Certainly, Nixon could have wrapped this mess up as a failed project of the Dems, but instead he went all in and it became Nixon's war. "
We now know that Nixon actively undermined Johnson's negotiations to end the war.
3
My cousin came home with no legs and sprout the last year of his life in a mental institution. To avoid the draft, I joined the Marine Corps. After OCC, the plan was to go as many schools as possible and the war would end before the plane ride occurred. Stupid plan! Got to Danang in early Feb of 68. Not a good time to visit. I was against the war before going, but Canada was not an option for me. Would estimate that 75% of the non-regular company grade officer corp was not strongly in support of the effort. Did the job but most of us had left out heart's in San Francisco. 13 months and adios! Glad now that I went, but if Trump does something really stupid, I'll personally drive my grandson to Vancouver!
25
The short answer is: NO DRAFT
3
Wrong. If there is a draft citizens that are called up will fight it. People don't care about wars they are not personally involved in. If there was a draft we would have been out of the middle east years ago.
4
Which worked out great for the pointless and ever expanding wars we've been engaged in for the past seventeen years.
It's easy to send other people to their deaths. The 'answer' is actually more draft; it tempers the loudmouths by making war a problem for everyone, not just for the poor kids.
8
With due respect, I think the answer is: Reinstitute the Draft! I'm a Vietnam Vet and was an active member of the VVAW upon my discharge in early '71. Not only did the fact of the draft mean that every parent's son was at risk (or at least most of them), but it built a common national identity. Had there been no draft, the war may have taken a lot longer to end; see, for example, the FIFTEEN years our volunteer military has been mired in the pointless (indeed, counter productive) wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, with barely a demonstration against them. Conscription creates accountability. Our "volunteer" force creates none.
12
If only those at the top of the US military had had the courage to point out the war was unwinnable under the circumstances and thousands of their troops were being killed or wounded in a futile effort...
21
Not a Mad Dog in the bunch. These are the real profiles in courage.
31
So here's the tough question: should any military member be allowed to walk away from battle, at any time, if she or he decides it's purpose is amoral? If as a result all service members do so - but not the opponent's forces - are we all ready to cede defeat and its consequences? Should the decision to engage in war be left up to military members' whim? In like regard, should we even have borders if it is amoral to enforce them and if not, to what extent should we do so? Currently, our enemies are "dying" to find out.
6
Yes, concerned members of the military should be able to walk away from wars of choice. North Vietnam was never an existential threat to the United States, and fighting the Vietnam War for so long made this country weaker.
24
Wars of "choice" - whose?
The only enemies we have are the ones we make. It is America that invades other countries who have not attacked us.
1
It wasn't just the junior officers who were opposed. My father, after 23 years in the Marine Corps and surviving Inchon, Seoul and the Chosin Reservoir, left the Corps when he received orders to take a battalion in Viet Nam, feeling that he could not in good conscience ask young marines to make sacrifices in an immoral war.
120
Wow, more power to your father. That took courage.
1
I served as a Conscientious Objector and stayed in CONUS for the duration, 1972-1975. People were not necessarily discharged for CO status. But then, I am a woman, so I guess I wasn't on a priority list for war zone deployment.
For years prior to my decision to serve in the USArmy, I protested the war. Because my brothers and a sister also served in the military (two in Vietnam), I wanted to do my part, as well.
The benefits of being a veteran are remarkable. It was the right decision.
Everyone should have the privilege of serving in a capacity that best suits him/her for a career in civilian life.
1
As a fellow CO, I commend you for your decision and your service. But I am a bit puzzled as to how you, as a woman CO, got into the military, given that woman weren't subject to the draft. Did you volunteer first and then declare as a CO? Or did you serve from the outset in a medical unit, which was legally defined as "non-combatant" and thus suitable for COs in the military?
I got a direct commission and discussed CO with the officer who swore me in. He said it was not a problem because women, at the time, were not deployed to combat theaters.
I still had to learn to use weapons--M16 and the 45 pistol. Because the WAC was deactivated at the end of 1972, I chose Quartermaster (combat support, nonetheless) and served as Chief of the Visitors' Bureau and as Manager of the Clothing Initial Issue Point. Two different posts and assignments in three years. Never handled a weapon after qualifying.
I knew more officers who were conservative and supported the war when they were deployed and came back opposed to the war than vice versa. Quite a few pilots had varying degrees of misgivings about the war especially if their job was BDA (bomb damage assessment ) of prior strikes on villages where infantry had come under fire. During the Christmas bombings of 1972, at least one B52 commander was tried for refusing to fly. By 70-71 quite a few men in all branches deployed to the Vietnam theater did what they could to "slow walk" the intensity of the war effort. The demoralization of the Army in Vietnam had an affect, in hastening the withdrawal of US forces from Vietnam, equal to the Anti-War movement in my opinion.
26
Excellent article. As an anti-war activist at the time,I remember the Concerned Officers Movement very well. Along with Vietnam Veterans Against the War, they were the cutting edge of the movement. All the anti-war protesters I knew had the highest regard for the veterans and men and women still in service who opposed the war. Contrary to the impression conveyed in the Burns/Novick documentary series, anti-war protesters did not spend their days harassing returning Vietnam veterans at airports, or calling them "baby-killers," etc. This article is a good corrective to Burns and Novick's shameful kow-towing to right-wing, stab-in-the-back myth-making.
47
You Brothers are double heroes. You stood up against that vile war in the 60s (1965-1975), for which you should always be honored. And then you stood up against the Criminalization of the 60s, from the time of Reagan forward.
And here you are, by damn!
As I look back on our civilian anti-war movement here at home, with all our faults and self-righteousness, I realize that we were really something. Let us remember that reality, whatever rewriting of our history occurs. Don't ever forget it, Sisters and Brothers. We Were Really Something.
Yet, compared with you sailors and soldiers, and your courage in facing the military's immense power over you, we were only an honorable background for your dazzling gallantry.
45
I'm certainly thankful for these guys, but how did they (We?) let John Kerry get so easily "swift-boated"?
73
John Kerry's swift-boating was one of the most appalling, hypocritical and disgusting things the right-wingers pulled. Remember those purple heart bandaids? Kerry was a hero, both in the war and in the war resistance, and that, more than any other aspect of his public service, is what he should be remembered for (and I was a Marine grunt, wounded 50 years ago during Tet, so I know a thing or two...).
60
D.A.Oh asks, "how did they (We?) let John Kerry get so easily "swift-boated"?"
Because the right-wing propaganda machine was already well-organized, incredibly well-financed and flexing its muscles for the long haul... turning us from a democratic republic into a fascist dictatorship, complete with outrageous military parades.
38
Neither Kerry nor his aides anticipated the swift-boating. After all, Kerry was awarded the Purple Heart and Silver Star for his service in Vietnam, how could he possibly be criticized? They found the attacks so absurd they never responded until it was too late. The Reps had already negatively "defined Kerry in the public's mind. Perhaps it was naïve of Kerry and the Dems, but after the Willie Horton ads in 1988, they should have known that the Bushs' have no honor.
6
Thank you. You're my kind of guys.
25
The best I could muster was painting FTA on everything I could. RVN '68-'69
12
hahahaha ... spent 1971-2 in Vietnam ... you would not find many in the group of people I served with who thought our policy makers did the right thing ... doubt if there was a man more disliked than Robert McNamara even though he was no longer SecDef by then ... we did our jobs as best we could for a very simple reason, we did not want ourselves or our buddies to get killed ... basically, you could throw out the proposition that a war could not be more messed up than Vietnam if we had intentionally planned to create a mess ... you would not get much argument against that proposition
39
These men, and many others like them, and women, too, who served, are the manifestation of courage.
29
I was in elementary school during the height of the Vietnam War (1965-1971), but the more I read, particularly in this outstanding series (thanks NYT), the more I realize just how much that war ripped our country apart. Reading this piece resonated with me, because I joined the Navy right after I graduated from college in 1982. By then the American military had been transformed into a professional force that was trying to forget about Vietnam, but as I talked with senior enlisted men who had served during that war, I came to one solid conclusion: leadership was trying to forget Vietnam; the sailors couldn't forget.
31
Where is the new conscious generation to stop the Endless Wars we are now addicted to.
Will the military-industrial complex Eisenhower warned us of finally consume the entire U.S. budget?
The expanded trump budget puts military hardware ahead of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid.
What is it protecting?
The right to die at home, untreated?
88
Robert, Thanks for this comment. I ask myself the same questions. The future????????????????????????????
2
The military budget allows government to stimulate the economy and create some jobs and business opportunities while proclaiming an ideology of small government and letting the private sector manage the economy. Jobs can be created in some areas without having to justify them by an ideology that promotes government economic intervention in the economy to benefit people and areas needing help with social programs and social engineering. The people who get the jobs will not see them as part of an economic development or full employment program, but rather as patriotic national defense that has nothing to do with working toward full employment or even providing jobs to get votes (the way many people see welfare and entitlement programs).
This important article shows that the antiwar movement was supportive of soldiers sent to Vietnam. The men portrayed in this article were helped in taking their antiwar actions by antiwar activists from outside the military. These authors, without saying so directly, show the falsity of the myth that soldiers were spat upon by opponents of the war- lie that Jerry Lembke directly refuted in an earlier article in this series.
78
Richard, you are wrong. That these men acted honorably does not reflect on the antiwar movement generally. It in no way disproves assertions of witnessed cruelty, stupidity and mean-spirited behavior by "antiwar activists" toward returning veterans. I came back from my combat tour through Travis, Oakland Army and out of SFO on my way home...what about you?
Oh poor Richard. Even a SUNY professor should be able to see the logic that even though these men may have been helped by some A-W activists that some opponents of the war did not spit upon many other military personnel. And in fact, many returning military personnel were jeered, cursed at, roughed up, laughed at and yes spat upon. Mr. Lembke and tales of the Left not withstanding.
Edward, give examples, with documented sources of your claim that "many returning military personnel were jeered, cursed at, roughed up, laughed at and yes spat upon." I was in the GI resistance movement and then active with the VVAW at that time. My experience tells me that you are wrong.
I was at West Point from 1967 to 1969. I resigned to avoid going to Vietnam, transferred to another school and eventually joined the National Guard. I never saw any direct disobedience or failure to follow orders, but it was not hard to find officers and enlisted men who would tell you that we should not be in Vietnam, that we could not and would not win.
31
In March, 1965, I underwent my draft physical, which I passed. In early November I received my draft notice. Even though I was educated at a Friends' school and believed in Quaker values (think anti-war), it never occurred to me to become a conscientious objector or to flee to Canada. I thought that most draftees were deployed elsewhere than Vietnam and was willing to take my chances. Then, about a week before leaving for basic training, a friend told me about an opening in the Army Security Agency. I was selected to fill that position and I remained stateside. I felt somewhat guilty after I learned that several soldiers I knew had died in Vietnam. After the Wall was constructed in the early 1980s, I took my 2 oldest sons to see the Mall and the Wall in D.C. I mourn those brave soldiers to this day.
24
The history of resistance to the war from inside the military is one of the great untold stories of the Vietnam war. I was a member of the Movement for a Democratic Military (Long Beach), and the brave men and women who took an anti-war stand from inside the Navy still fills me with courage to continue to be active and resist today.
58
I think it's because it ruins the narrative of war for many people who want to overlook the individuals in the troops in favor of a monolithic concept of the troops, and then use that to defend any and all military displays of power. As though disagreeing with decisions made in the Pentagon makes you unAmerican, disrespectful to individual soldiers, etc.
11
These men displayed extraordinary courage in their defiance of the American military during war, and for that they deserve the thanks of anyone who yearns for civilian rather than martial values to shape society. Their early determination to attach themselves to a cause greater than themselves, moreover, apparently influenced their later career choices, given the kinds of jobs they now hold.
At the same time, however, the state restrained itself from imposing the kinds of penalties that might have wrecked, or at least seriously damaged, the lives of these resisters. Instead of prison terms, several received conscientious objector status. A number of draft resisters did not fare so well, evidence of the kinds of contradictory forces that shape the military in a free society.
The interplay of these contrarian influences helped to weaken military discipline and promote social disorder in the later stages of the Vietnam war. Such turmoil may be the price paid by the people of a democratic nation whose elected leaders fail to persuade them of the vital importance to the country of a war the government has decided to fight.
Rather than learn that lesson, however, government officials decided to circumvent the problem by creating a professional military. Now, they can fight permanent wars without arousing or inconveniencing the citizenry.
146
“A number of draft resistors did not fare so well . . .”
It is important to note that these honorable men were not “draft resistors;” they followed established legal procedures to obtain CO status. In doing so they showed respect for both their own values and those of the Constitution. This is integrity and it is essential to a democratic process.
66
As a reserve officer who was three times mobilized to active duty after 9/11, I can tell you my wife would take exception to the idea that the citizenry was not inconvenienced. The families of the many Guard and reserve types mobilized would feel the same way, I believe.
But the point is well taken. I fear the degree to which the military is divorced and isolated from the society we are sworn to defend.
I remember the Marines with whom I served in Afghanistan. They would comment how they were at war, but America was "at the mall" . Now, I suppose, America is logged onto Amazon.
73
"I remember the Marines with whom I served in Afghanistan. They would comment how they were at war, but America was "at the mall" . Now, I suppose, America is logged onto Amazon."
It will become increasingly this way not by political decision but by the nature of the conflicts and changing technology. America's 21st century wars have, by and large, been local affairs and so simply do not demand the same level of manpower as World War I and II. You can draft everybody but many won't have anything useful to do. Even if we do face World War III, it will - because of changes in technology - unlikely to require mass conscription. It may be a short and ugly affair with nuclear weapons. Society becoming divorced from war seems inevitable, unless cyberweapons or WMDs hit the home front.
5