While my first comment on this article quotes Darwin's crowning "Survival of the Fittest" with the Golden Rule, after reading so many unenlightened comments I must agree with Einstein: "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."
1
The animal kingdom is asking what is the problem? The life cycle continues and species become extinct as climate and resources change. Of course, animals do not kill and rape for sport. And they do not use guns.
I am reminded of a Twilight Zone episode were soldiers are cornered in a cave and a white soldier on the outside tells his men to kill those in the cave.
Suddenly he becomes one of those men in the cave facing death.
I always took that story as that one should walk in anothers shoes before hating and never never assume the shoe won't be on the other foot.
Those who incite fear and hatred are bullies and weak. They need blind obedience to survive.
We decry other governments and yet many in the usa are blindly following down toward that same path in righteous indignation.
If usa was a warzone and we were refugees, what country would take us in? Remember the civil war? Doubt we would get help except we would get the wall to keep us from getting out.
Compassion for refugees, but scorn for deplorables.
What more needs to be said?
18
All the people yelling about the threat of the members of a religion coming to tear apart the country, please read JFK's speech to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association in September, 1960. Or listen, they link a recording and it's a worthwhile 11 minutes.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16920600
"For while this year it may be a Catholic against whom the finger of suspicion is pointed, in other years it has been, and may someday be again, a Jew— or a Quaker or a Unitarian or a Baptist. It was Virginia's harassment of Baptist preachers, for example, that helped lead to Jefferson's statute of religious freedom. Today I may be the victim, but tomorrow it may be you — until the whole fabric of our harmonious society is ripped at a time of great national peril."
It's pertinent as a reminder here in a nation where many shout about "defending our Judeo-Christian heritage" while meaning only their particular sect within a big, quarrelsome pile of faiths. A group that Islam is a member of as well - worshiping the same God, but like the splits within "Jewish" or within "Christian", doing so in various ways - often, sadly, attacking each other for supposedly worshiping God the wrong way.
"Hatred of Catholics led some to cheer JFK's assassination: Jarvis DeBerry"
http://www.nola.com/opinions/index.ssf/2013/11/hatred_of_catholics_led_s...
We're getting better, but we'll never be done.
10
IF ONLY...
If WE hadn't been in the Middle East for the past 70 years, "kicking ant-beds", killing people & imposing "our" will upon people halfway around the World? All in the name of turning profits for Exxon & Rex, Halliburton/Brown & Root- & Dick Cheney, House of Saud & "the Bushies", et al? We would not find ourselves in this position today. I am constantly amazed by just HOW colloquial, credulous, un-informed & just generally ignorant 50 % of Americans citizens are...Especially regarding how the OTHER 90% of the World's population lives, & thinks....& THEIR "version" of how history has played out. (with U.S. pulling strings)
Somewhere along the way, post WWII, WE decided, that WE knew what was "best" for EVERYONE...even people half a world away, whom 95% of Americans had never even HEARD of...much less taken the time to actually LEARN enough about them and THEIR cultures, ethnic/tribal concerns, social issues, etc. to make anything approaching informed decisions relating to foreign (& domestic) policy
We HAD the MIGHT...
So, we PRESUMED the RIGHT...
So?...Now?...
We get to FIGHT!
This bill is LONG past-due & gone to collections. One of
my dear old departed Granddads favorite truisms seems
apropos....
"If you're gonna be DUMB?....
...Ya GOTTA be TOUGH!"
I think it's fairly obvious at this point, or should be, that we have BEEN acting DUMB for quite some time.
13
It's articles like this that fuel the anger of the right. The left taking understandable views and of conservatives and villainizing them for having those views, while they congratulate themselves for their righteousness. And the liberal media centered on the coasts backing the left and not permitting the conservative view to get a fair hearing. This anger is what gets otherwise rational people to vote for a Trump.
Muslims attack the West and we then see videos of large numbers of ordinary Muslims standing up and cheering as the World Trade Center buildings collapse. To millions of Americans the WTC bombing was an act of war, and we must take all steps to defend ourselves even if some Muslims are unfairly treated. That's what happens in war.
Charlottesville. Black and white. The white mob illegally pulling down Confederate monuments knowing of the reaction from the right. But who could possibly support these monuments, that honored traitors and racists like Robert E. Lee? In September Dallas removed a monument to Lee from a city park. In 1936 President Roosevelt attended the dedication of that monument and praised Lee in a brief speech. So that puts the most respected president of the 20th Century in the camp of the white supremacists.
Men who think that they are women being allowed to use women's restrooms? Ridiculous. But let someone stand up and say so and that person becomes a far right hater.
The left should review the lyrics of Bob Dylan's "My Back Pages."
21
Ms. Suransky does not truly grasp the phenomenon of white nationism.
She has written us a superficial, stock condemnation of what conventional wisdom tells us about so-called white-nationalism.
Our understanding of white nationalism stems completely, one-dimensionally from what happened last century during WW2.
Nowhere is there an attempt to link white supremecy to equally disturbing 21st Century trends of Tribalism, Religious intolerance, Genocide which occurs in all other corners of the planet EXCEPT where white nationalism has begun to increase.
A closer look at the membership of white nationalism shows that a surprising number of its membership probably dont meet the 100% "white" requirement that the rest of us expect them to have!
Recent incidents involve white nationalists in the USA that have black african heritage, hispanic heritage...and not surprisingly a lot of jewish heritage!! There's probably a sprinkling of "asians" in this crowd too.
As any physicist will tell you....white is the combination of all colors.
And this seems to me to apply to race as well......for it is the "white" people that seem to be anit-tribal, more tolerant, and accepting of others....than any of the other so-called tribes that use their imaginary "culture" to prove superiority to the other tribes. To be tribal is to lose individual identity, uniqueness as a human being. The penalty for leaving the tribe.....is to be branded "white".
6
This article and others like it should not be in the "opinion" pages, but on the front page, every day of the week. It is no longer enough to present the frightening facts and truths as opinions. - A worried citizen
7
The white nationalists are doing so well *because* a lot of these countries took in more immigrants than they could absorb, resulting in backlash.
19
White Nationalism will save the West.
The idea of religious tolerance is alien to Islam. Islam sees peace on earth, but only when Islam has conquered the Earth and everyone lives under Sharia Law. The adoption of multiculturalism allows insidious ideas that all cultures are equal to spread in the West. This is not so. It is patently obvious that Western Eurocentric Civilisation is far superior to anything Asia, South America or Africa can produce.
Just visit the Arabian peninsula! All machinery, automobiles, sophisticated weapons, airplanes and construction know-how has been imported. They can't even make a washing machine there.
21
Just as a lifeboat can only save so many fleeing a sinking ship without sinking itself, we are also obligated to preserve ourselves.
The merits of this argument are sometimes lost in the heat of the moment.
12
It seems that ''compassion", "cooperation" and "toleration" have always been considered obscene by a considerable portion of our country. There were the "know-nothings" and even before that the Sedition Acts. "The past is always with us, it isn't even past". It seems the South is finally close to winning the Civil War.
A nation gets the government it deserves.
7
The underlying assumption in this article is so preposterously wrong that it almost makes you laugh, if it wasn't such a serious issue. There is no Christian Nation at war with the rest of the world. That is something to consider. Of course, not all apples in the barrel are rotten, but when some are, it does taint the others. We cannot gloss over that reality or deny it, which is what much of the so called "liberal" crowd does. The "right" is wrong of course, in over reacting, but this is where we are. One point of view alienates the other, and to some degree alarms it, so whether or not there is a high degree of danger being posed by the enemy, it is conflated by the debate. Facts don't seem to matter, nor do the fundamentals of the issue.
It is not Islam. It is religion. We need to be free of this curse. It has long ago served and abused it's purpose, and remains an albatross around our necks. As long as we go on believing in these hallucinations of truth, the longer we will be at odds with each other. "The Crusades" may well be coming to your theater, shortly.
It is not liberalism that is dying. It seems more alive and vibrant than ever. It is just simply misdirected and inflaming all that is not responsive to reality. When a little town in Switzerland raises $300,000 to pay off the fee for rejecting immigrants, we should take that gesture seriously. There is a lot wrong here, and it is more than simply putting your foot in the wrong shoe.
7
As a NY lawyer and a patriot I am troubled by your patronizing tone comparing radical Islamic terrorism, an existential threat, and white nationalism. As our President knows, there is evil in the world and it must be eliminated, not subject to negotiation. Even though God blessed me to live in this enlightened land, the Islamists would not spare me, as a member of a group subject to beheading or hurling off towers, should they get the chance. By contrast, Christians, not 'dead' in Europe contrary to the author, have the history of two thousand years in which to consider me as a human. My long life experience with 'nationalists' causes no fear except from elites who would deter us from focus on defeating our enemies in the Middle East, including Isis and Iran. That goal is in sight with President Trump.
12
Why inject ethnicity into this? Islam is not an ethnicity. Nationalism knows no color.
8
The left are the only ones who ever mention race.
Identity politics is destroying the west. not nationalism.
The west has superior values, that is why millions or billions seek to come here. Some to be a part of the dream and others to destroy it. I support nationalists who want to defend us from those who would destroy it. Regardless of how you choose to paint them.
Nazis, BLM, Antifa and the New Black Panthers all share one common and important element. By definition, they are not nationalists.
18
I don't feel ashamed at pushing my own white agenda.
If all other races can pursue their, why not me?
Stop trying to convince us that being white means being evil, it's getting old and we all know the truth of it.
27
Another issue is Trump and republicans have made it publicly acceptable to be a bigot in the public forum. A lot of them have crawled out from under the rocks in the last couple of elections.
11
I do not consider myself a white nationalist, or anything close. However, after reading this article, I feel like I am a lot more sympathetic to white nationalists than I am to this author.
On a VERY related note, you start the story with a "third generation Frenchwoman" wearing a "burkini". I'll give you 5:1 odds that woman had her clitoris surgically removed and I'd be willing to put $10,000 on the line for that wager. Would you take that bet? Before you say, "Yes", keep in mind that 52% of British Muslims support outlawing homosexuality. You didn't misread that - I didn't forget to include "marriage" after homosexuality, I mean that they literally want to BAN homosexuality. The UK, in my experience, is far better at integrating foreign populations (it's even a running joke that the national dish of the UK is chicken tikka masala), so the numbers are likely FAR worse in France.
In short, as far as I can tell, you think it is OK for a woman whose family has lived in France for three generations to be treated by her family as not only a second class citizen who must walk behind men, but that it is also OK for her to be the victim of physical mutilation that ensures she can never enjoy sex. All the while, anyone who thinks that's twisted, and that women should have equal rights, is a white nationalist? OK, then, I am now far, far more sympathetic to white nationalists than I am to weapons grade hypocrites like you.
29
Muslim terrorists will commit terrorist attack after terrorist attack and we are instructed to ignore their common ideology. One act of violence by a white nationalist though and we are told this ideology is the biggest threat ever and it's used to curtail any criticism of Islam, BLM, etc. The solution to Islamic terrorism, according to the left, is never anything they have to do, the burden is on everyone else. Notice when the perps are white nationalists we never hear talks about need for programs to "outreach at risk youth" or "community centers". With Islamic terrorism their grievances have to be addressed and the poverty and injustice the incited it needs to be rectified. Never true with white nationalists despite the fact most of them also come from disadvantaged backgrounds.
21
Dead on assessment.
I would just like to add that the idea that one human being is worth more or less depending on where they are born is the basest form of ignorance.
No, you are not more valuable to our society because you are native.
6
Sasha Polakow-Suransky wants to lecture Americans and Europeans about what's moral and in their own self interests regarding immigration. Give us a break.
21
interesting... the comments are still open after 3 days. After the first day I would reckon 90% of the comments strongly disagreed with the premise of this piece and were even offended by its implications, suggesting that any concerns about out of control immigration amounted to "White Nationalism". Perhaps the NYT did not expect this reaction and is leaving the comments open in the hopes that the balance in reader responses will shift more favorably or that the negative responses will be somehow diluted?
24
Ok, so the people who built the west are "destroying" it because they refuse to tolerate millions of economic migrants who are really only here to get on the dole for life. They refuse to tolerate religious violence, demographic change, rising crime rates, and unwanted cultural clashes. If that's "destroying" the west, you can count me in. I have no idea what "west" you people are talking about, but it's obviously not the actual west that was built by successive generations of white Christian males.
25
"He finds it scandalous that 'a veiled woman speaking our language badly, completely ignorant of our culture” is legally considered as French as “an indigenous Frenchman passionate for Romanesque churches, and the verbal and syntactic subtleties of Montaigne and Rousseau.'"
Why is it such an issue to want the people you live with to speak your language and have the same culture as you?
21
Fueled by our President for power.
5
“White nationalism”? This just occurred in #Somalia:
“Local journalists say one freelance journalist was killed in Saturday's massive bombing in Somalia's capital and several were injured.
Voice of America says one of its reporters, Abdulkaidr Mohamed Abdulle, is among the injured.
Police and hospital sources say the death toll from the truck bomb in Mogadishu has risen to 189 in what is the single deadliest attack ever in the Horn of Africa nation.
— Abdi Guled in Mogadishu.”
Maybe this could be among the reasons why “the West” (and just about everywhere else) is not welcoming Muslim/Islamic “refugees” to its borders.
19
The cure for this is pretty plain: stop allowing so much immigration. Even the white nationalists will say they aren't opposed to immigrants so long as they arrive and adapt to the culture of the country they're joining. The only way to ensure that is by limiting the number of immigrants and requiring they be of 'good moral character', as the naturalization policy of the US states. 'Good moral character' precludes female genital mutilation practices, honor killings of children, and attacks on cartoonists. The Left really is stupid if it thinks accepting floods of immigrants from countries where those practices are allowed, and handing over entire communities to them is wise immigration policy. Leaders will arise in those communities, and to think they will be from among the rational and moderate members is silly. The most radical and violent will end up shaping those communities, and you will have clashes and bloodshed just as you do in the Middle East for generations.
27
Is this event so different from what European immigrants did to the American Indians?
5
What's ruining Western Civilization are Liberals who attach race to Nationalism instead of focusing on the shared ideals which define national unity regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc.
The issue with Muslim migrants emigrating from Arab nations defined by Sharia law is not racial, it is cultural. These migrants, in large numbers, have no interest in assimilating and adopting Western beliefs of liberty and freedom.
And for Liberals to just scream "Xenophobic" or "Racist" at anyone seeking to preserve western civilization just shows what a warped senses of self-righteous self-loathing they have.
25
If white nationalism is destroying the west, is dark nationalism destroying the rest of the world? Maybe the nationalism is not related to color, maybe it is related to culture and religion. Is there anything wrong with wanting to live surrounded by people of your religion and culture?
15
What a disgraceful tactic to flip the genuine concerns of citizens in many countries about terrorism, Islam, and shariah into a racial argument about "white nationalists". To turn this into an issue with color is, quite simply, a lie.
47
Just two questions: did non-white and/or non-Christian people only begin immigrating to "the West" recently and, if not, then why hasn't "the West" already collapsed? By the way, I'm talking on a timescale of decades, centuries and millennia...
www.thewaryouknow.com
Given the upheavals commonplace in Western societies caused by policies of allowing massive numbers of immigrants into otherwise stable societies, policies enacted without the approval, by and large of the voters, find the author's labeling of anyone who defends Western civilization as a white nationalist offensive and unfair.As I mentioned, ethnic nationalism has traditionally been a province of the left, of the Democratic Party. Marine le Pen may be the most incompetent, tone deaf, inept politician since HRC, but the cause which she defends, that of "petits blancs," Poujade's constituency back in the day, is a just one which I identify with "a cent pourcent," not to exclude others, but to say that our civilization, our democratic values, are superior to those of non Western societies, certainly more humane than the beliefs of "developing nations" in which I have served. To label someone a White Supremacist is to shut down discussion, because what reasonable person would want to debate anything with a White Supremacist?H.RAP Brown was an ethnic nationalist, believed in black power and black supremacy and he is presently serving life in a Ga. prison for capital murder, the killing of a police officer. 1 final point: Have submitted at least 8 to 10 comments today, all respectful, Cartesian in nature, and have seen only 1 published. Don't you believe Alexander Harrison deserves a fair shake? Thanks for your consideration of the above.
8
It is so interesting that directly below this article is the Mogadishu bombing.
11
Would it be better if the article directly below this one is one of the many mass murders done by white men?
3
White people alone do not have the monopoly on hatred.
It runs deep in many races, religions, nationalities, cultures, tribes and ethnicities. Study history and there is strong ongoing evidence of continual hatred. Shia, Kurd, Sunni, Tutsis, Hutus, Rohingya, on and on.
Even within similar races there is direct discrimination or castes, very often based on skin tone alone.
Stop blaming white people for EVERY wrong in the world.
As if the Muslim world doesn't have any internal warfare and strife. It has only been going on for thousands of years. Long before white people arrived to their parts of the globe. I for one don't want Muslims bringing along their cultural and theocratic baggage or violence and intolerance into my country. As if we don't already have enough of our own domestic problems.
17
We have climbed inside the "victim" mentality and refuse to OWN our frailties and issues as OUR problem.....Always must be caused by someone else. If we cannot acknowledge the problem--we will never solve it.
I am NOT the victim of any immigration or any economic crisis that someone created to harm me.
When we let go of responsibility, we also let go of any reason to be valued or respected. Let's hope that light bulb goes on before we have all become blubbering masses of weakness and recrimination. Franky, I find this characteristic of the extreme right to be the march towards fascism and denial of any empowering abilities to create change without violence or hate. You embrace victimhood and you have given up your power......
2
To claim that "white nationalism" is posing a threat to the West can only come from the pits of anglo-centric ignorance. Any european older than 25 knows by their own life experience how much their country has changed, and what the most visible and tangible reason for this change is: uncontrolled mass immigration from non western countries. The majority of these people have no intention of integrating into larger society, because pro-immigration politics allows them to, financing their life-long joblessness (due to superlow educational accomplishments) with public housing and generous handouts, encouraging fertility with bonus $ for every new child. The rest follows logically. Non-citizens occupy the top ranks of crime statistics, despite politics trying to disguise this fact by handing out citizenship docs like paper towels. And as a more general consequence, the rise of a myriad of mono-cultural ghettos, is accompanied by a general decline of social cohesion - the only guarantor of social peace in tightly packed european nations. And yes, we had and have, politicians in power, who openly say that their political goal is to dilute the ethnic makeup of their countries. This is not a conspiracy theory. The Europe your parents knew, is dying. And if things continue as they are right now, western civilisation will die with it. If you ever asked yourself how once great civilisations could die so quickly, now you have the answer. It's self-destructive, leftist politics.
21
Since we're on the subject of race-centered nationalism, it is worth noting that Black Nationalism is also on the rise. The SPLC has taken notice and pointed out that recent murders of police officers were committed by individuals motivated by Black Nationalism. One of the preeminent figures of the movement, Louis Farrakhan, has been embraced by more mainstream figures of the 'woke' identity-politics set. Three of the women representing the Women's March, Linda Sarsour, Tamika Mallory, and Carmen Perez, all count Farrakhan as a leader to be admired. As recently as 2015 Farrakhan has said, "If the federal government will not intercede in our affairs, then we must rise up and kill those who kill us, stalk them and kill them and let them feel the pain of death that we are feeling!". The SPLC describes Farrakhan as deeply antisemitic and anti-white. Anyone following the social media accounts of prominent Black Lives Matter activists will notice a continued use of the term 'Whiteness' in the context of being intrinsically linked to oppression. There is a growing willingness to attack 'Whiteness' as being the source of all problems in America. Much in the same way that White Nationalism has invaded the right, Black Nationalism seems to be quietly working its way into the left more and more every passing day. Black Nationalism is just as racist as White Nationalism. That it emerged from a minority group does not change this.
15
Does it occur to the author that many people in European countries do not want their homelands converted to multiculturalism? Many people do not want large unassimilated groups living in their cities. As an empirical observation, it does indeed lead to all kinds of probelms, and one of them is terrorism. But, Oh No!, the "progressive" elites know better what is good for society. The ordinary citizens are just deplorables.
27
It's the dangdest thing... native Americans were opposed to immigration from 1492, on up to today... and rightly so. We should take their lesson to heart.
7
"...white nationalism poses a significantly greater threat to Western democracies; its proponents and sympathizers have proved, historically and recently, that they can win a sizable share of the vote — as they did this year in France, Germany and the Netherlands — and even win power, as they have in the United States."
White nationalists have taken power in the USA? When did that happen?!? Oh, I get it. This person means Donald Trump is a White nationalist. Which is an unusually frivolous claim to make, even by the parochial, intellectually incurious standards of 21st century progressivism. I understand that members of your class really dislike Donald Trump (frankly, that's one of the reasons I voted for him), but you don't just get to claim everyone you strongly dislike, is also a member of the political movement you most dislike. That's not how objective reality works, I'm afraid.
16
It's the dandiest thing... native Americans were opposed to immigration from 1492, on up to today... and rightly so. We should take their lesson to heart.
3
The link to the article cited by Mr. Polakow-Suransky indicated that the woman on the French beach was offered a choice of paying a fine, or leaving the beach. It did not say she was ordered by the police "to strip off her veil." The article said she paid a 11 Euro fine.
Also, a curious choice of words. The only "victim" described in the piece is the woman who had a disagreeable encounter with a few French police officers, not the "86 people" killed by a truck.
17
Not all of us are liberals. Some of us may not want the immigrants.
10
White nationalist, like racist, is losing its sting, now that it's come to mean anything less than uncontrolled immigration from nations that cannot support themselves, including a large number of adherents of a religion that bills itself as peaceful, but in practice cannot live with its neighbors in peace.
14
The problem is in governments simply asking too much of native populations. Everyone on the planet acknowledges that we are moving toward one world, but that doesn't mean you change things radically overnight and then come down like a 1,000 tons of brick on people who have more or less been living the same way for 1,000 years when they express some degree of anxiety.
People need to use their heads. Pointing the finger at others for being less than perfect doesn't make you a good person; it makes you a hypocrite. Most people are good people, but asking them to voluntarily annihilate life as they know it is asking far too much.
And anyone who has studied the rise of National Socialism even moderately seriously, and is educated in the mechanics that actually brought the Nazis to power, would not be worried one iota by the current "rise of whitenstionalism."
That being said, the Internet has made it clear to me that there are more of these cretins than I ever imagined.
1
In a global community, in a world woven by those with common genetic and "racial" origin, just who can the "other" be except a fabrication constructed for political gain, this construction made possible by misunderstandings or ignorance.
1
If things continue as they are, there will come a time when those that have been persecuted will join together to fight back.
They will use the power of their vote to prevent white people from taking office, they will refuse to patronize white businesses, and prevent white affiliated charities from receiving funding.
This will hurt not just the white nationalists, but every pale face in this country.
The time is coming when we will have to choose between being an apartheid country or one that lives up to its ideals as a multi-cultural, multi-theocratic country.
White nationalism and democracy in America is incompatible.
1
Take note, dear comment readers, of the irrational arguments, the hatred of outsiders, the singular stereotyping and denigration of whole groups comprised of tens of millions, the defense of rabid colonialism and exclusion of the colonized, the sheer audacity to claim “we’re better and have every right to...” and know that all these hates are strong, so very strong in these threads. We are well on track for WW3, ably aided by the Hater-in-Chief and apparently, millions are so filled with rage that they are just fine with that. We have met the enemy and they are us.
3
It is virtually impossible to immigrate to Japan or South Korea yet for Polakow-Suransky it is the West that is being destroyed by the concern of being overrun with culturally incompatible people. A few minutes ago I watched on BBC angry well-dressed Muslim men from Birmingham complaining about a judge who ordered desegregation of male and female schoolchildren. Apparently, this is "Liberalism run amok".
So, they immigrate, become citizen then work to inflict their cultural paradigm on the hosts. Does this sound like the model of democratic paradise to you? In my view, they should be served with a one -way ticket, pronto.
22
2600 years is obviously not enough to understand how oligarchies recruit us to further their desires. Today's book reviews from the Guardian may help us realize how we became a "civic oligarchy".
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/15/oligarchy-lessons-...
2
There is a problem which all human societies have been split over and attracted towards for three hundred years. The rise of the ideas that man not invisible intelligent forces are responsible for how humans arrange and order their lives and deal with the problems that they face. This produced the knowledge and innovations of science and technology, the secular states offering government by and for the governed, and the presumption that people have enough in common despite different cultures and wealth and power to live in peace if they choose to be patient with each other. These ideas challenge the religions which demand that each holds the only truth about invisible forces which made and control the universe which means that all other beliefs are wrong and threaten them with evil outcomes. These ideas describe what natural forces can tell us about nature but which contradict the sacred texts given by the invisible forces and so must be fake and deceptive things fomented by evil forces. The fact that human knowledge and efforts can never be perfect, that they will always require corrections and unlearning mistakes, give the old beliefs in unknowable causes to be asserted to be always true to offer a certainty that is more desirable but from our experience less reliable than the imperfect knowledge from our human efforts. To accept uncertainty and to remain skeptical of what we can know and do is less comfortable but what we need to do to address the real world.
1
I consider myself liberal, but I know that Islamic "values" are not at all compatible with Western culture. If the Dems would concentrate on things like gerrymandering, outrageous executive compensation, forced agreement to mediation in contracts for services, consumer rights, environmental issues, the arts, etc. and stop the extreme social justice warrior nonsense, they might have a chance.
12
LOOK FOR THE MAN BEHIND THE SCREEN (WIZARD OF OZ)
Most "Nationalist" movements begin with outrage over a perception that something rightly owned has been taken away by "outsiders". In the West, the main force that has been taking things away is unrestrained corporatism. The real "other" are the corporations and their enablers (CEO, politicians, banks, etc). But it's far more advantageous if people believed there problems had to do with foreigners taking away their rights and money. So this is the story supported happily by the corporate government.
1
I am white (Caucasian), male and I am 82 years old. I have always voted since I was 21 (the required age at that time). Old white guys may be likely to be Nationalist, have lots of money, fear and prejudice but, like me, they vote. This problem can be solved in all the countries mentioned in this article in one way only. The vote.
2
This is not a simple problem that can be solved by pointing fingers. We have a small percentage of the world that is considered the "first world". Where human rights by and large are respected. Then unfortunately we have the rest of the world that is a hodgepodge of corruption and dictatorships and male domination. The overpopulated rest of that world basically wants to come to the first. How do we as citizens figure out a way to let persons in that will contribute to the common good and respect "first world" values of human dignity and rights? How do we also not alienate the citizens here already that are used to these rights? Pointing fingers solves nothing . We cannot also accept beliefs from outside that are incongruous to our own.
6
As unfounded as the fear may be, it is also conceivable that the immigrants might be perceived by the Gallic French as inclined to impose an intolerant society similar, say, to the theocracies in Saudi Arabia, Iran and other Islamic political units where religious dissent seems to be even more difficult than it is under the government sponsored rules than in France when France discourages modest swimwear but permits the importation of the Quran. I believe the Christian Bible is not a permitted import into Saudi Arabia. The immigrants might be more vocal in their support for immodest swimwear in France for the part of the population that seems to find it important. That might help to firm up the immigrants' credentials as political liberals who are comfortable with European liberal traditions but who choose to adhere personally to conservative mores and, importantly who will not insist on political enforcement of comparable modesty on the part of their neighbors in Europe and the United States. My body is sufficiently decrepit that I dare not venture out in any kind of swimwear, so this is just the observation of an outside party indifferent to swimwear either as clothing or as a political statement or flag.
1
Minority views can become majority views in a generation.
Fringe beliefs can become mainstream quickly.
Agree or not there are at least a dozen Western societies that will not be Western in three to four generations. And once those who believe in Western society become a minority we will see what happens. I think most of us can guess what would happen.
What happens to minorities in Saudi Arabia? Egypt? Pakistan? Sudan? Bahrain? Somalia?
I believe in Western values. There is no Western value that we should allow our people to be killed to defend diversity. There is no virtue in defending the indefensible because 'diversity.'
Citizens of the West are the inheritors of a system of beliefs that generations of our ancestors fought and died to give us. It is not our right to throw it all away because we do not want to offend religious murderers or fail to live to some illogical, dangerous, standard of fairness or openness.
No to murderers, rapists, misogynists and homophobes. Let them live in peace in their own countries. End birthright citizenship. No more economic 'refugees.' No more! Our nation and our laws are meant to protect our people. Our citizens do not want this nation to be the dumping ground of the world.
15
this isn't just a far right problem. The far left poses a similar threat. Turning a blind eye to either because they're somewhat on the same page as you is exceptionally dangerous. The extremists are coming out of the woodwork on both sides, abusing, and simultaneously demanding a curtailment of the classically liberal concept of universal human rights. Both need to be engaged and ideologically defeated if the West is to endure.
2
The writer might both call on fact (rather than emotionalism) and take a look in his own cultural backyard (including South Africa). Mixing so-called White supremacy with immigration, terrorism, anti-Semitism, Muslin culture and the Executive Office, is an interesting mix of ingredients in what is obviously biased, special interest agitprop. But it does serve a purpose in showcasing how thinking clearly, or objectively, is so vital to coherent public discourse, and progress. among public and other policy. As for his cultural backyard, the state of Israel is perhaps among the world's most nationalistic, ethno-religious supremacy-cultures in the world. As for South Africa, his parent's pedigree, that is a singular environment, problematic to generalize onto the US (perhaps the UK). As for France, he makes assertions as to events that remain uninvestigated, therefore absent facts and data; he therefore speculates, and propagates mere narrative. Concerning immigration bias, the Left (and Right and Middle) are eating their own cooking: 16 years of the Global War of Terror; $7 Trillion dollars spent from the US Treasury; hundreds of thousands of innocents killed; million of displaced refugees and thousands of killed, maimed or psychologically destroyed US servicemen and women--and not a peep of protest from the press, academia, students or voters. Yet now, because Trump takes executive action stemming from the Patriot Act (remember that?), the Left has new-found sensation.
3
White Nationalism is a fraud that is focusing fears and loathing for circumstances which confuse and make people feel helpless. Opposing it just validates a big lie which is that race is actually something that represents something important which tells us something real about people. The time since all humans' identically the same female ancestor does not permit the kind of mutations needed to make these categories really significant ones. Examining DNA proves that except for the few characteristics which people use to category by race shows that there are no other characteristics that can be correlated to races. It's just a big fat figment of human imagination. It's time to address the fears and concerns which make people even consider looking for such narrative to express and to focus their complaints with the phantom of White Nationalism. The first thing we need to do is to prove to everyone that race is an obsolete and unfounded in reality concept, and bury it once and for all.
As of 5.30 pm (New York Time) Austria, an active EU member, has given majority to Ultry Right ÖVP with 31 year old Sebastian Kurz as leader. Forward to the Past - Obviously Europe is in serious trouble.
4
As a refugee and later an immigrant, I adapt. That’s what immigrants must do and are very good at. You come to another country, must work hard to adapt to a new language, new culture, new ways of living, new laws, and new people. That’s the least you can do for your host country. That’s human decency. If you adapt and they hate you, that’s their problem. If you don’t adapt and they hate you, that’s YOUR problem.
5
Looking at a burkini as some sort of flag that signals allegiance to any terrorist group is a terribly misguided attitude. This mistake results from too much isolation and not enough exposure to other cultures. I live in Saudi Arabia and have seen burkinis worn around swimming pools. I guarantee that the women wearing these articles hate terrorists and their actions as much as the mayor of Cannes.
12
Do any Western countries expect refugees or immigrants to sign a legal agreement to understand and accept the values and customs of the country they seek to enter, even if those values and customs differ from their own? This includes agreeing to learn the prevailing language. Are they advised of the differences that may be in conflict with what they are accustomed to? Does anyone ask if they are willing to learn, adapt, and assimilate enough to be successful, contributing residents? I hear about refugee aide groups helping people settle into new lives, but I never hear what the application process seeks from them as a commitment, before entry, other than clean vetting of their background.
11
The Netherlands is having immigrants sign a social contract about their nation's secularism, mores and ethics. Also showing them videos that includes gay people and women walking alone and other things they may be intolerant towards.
6
The true irony of white nationalism is that this country belongs to its native inhabitants, the 'Indian tribes' not the 'white invaders'. All the rest, especially white nationalists are aliens and must be 'deported'
4
a catchall term for modest swimwear favored by many religious women
Dead giveaway that the author is a regressive leftist. Name one religion other than Islam that favors "burkinis..."
12
Pentecostals, 7th day Adventists, Mormons, Orthodox Jews...those are the religions off of the top of my head which favor very conservative swimwear for women. I'm sure there are plenty of others.
There are Moslem women who dress like Westerners, too.
3
Which White Nationalist group (WNG) killed over 3000 American civilians in NYC, DC, and a field in Pennsylvania?
Which WNG murdered entire schools of civilian children in Nigeria?
Which WNG killed civilians in Brussels...in Paris...in London...in Manchester...in, Orlando...in San Bernadino...in?
Which WNG killed civilians in Karbala, Mghagha, Alexandria Egypt, St. Petersburg Russia, Tikrit, Kabul, Istanbul, etc in the last 10 months alone?
The destruction of the West and attacks on the freedoms we enjoy are coming primarily from one ideology...and it is not any WNG.
18
" a Tunisian man driving a large truck rammed into a crowd, killing 86 people." But why? Gould and Klor have found that states with more pronounced backlash against extremist violence suffer a subsequent reislamization of their muslim immigrant population http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ecoj.12219/abstract
Islamic extremism is a battle for the hearts and minds of the Muslim world. At the end of the 20th century, Islamists saw their imminent obsolescence. Any muslim smart enough to succeed in Western society would do so - perhaps they'd still practice Islam, but they were happy to do so in the larger context of a secular, democratic order.
The self proclaimed defenders of the West are, ironically, destroying that order, and, so, are playing directly into the Islamists hands. Because, like the Islamists, while they claim revanchist goals of restoring Western ascendancy, their only real goal is to win their domestic power struggle against moderates and progressives. This won't end well.
The Nazis claimed to be the defenders of German civilization, but, instead, they chopped down Goethe's tree, melted down the mask of Agamemnon, and ended Germany's central role in world culture/politics for a few generations.
8
Excellent and intelligent comment.
It just takes my breath away by the venom spewed at the "so called" White Supermacists ( I reject the White Supermacists as well). But tell me a couple of things. How many Muslims have been assaulted in the US or Europe? How many have been killed by your "so called" White Supermacists? And whne have Liberal, Leftys like you have ever condemned the Muslim attacks where they intentionally killed innoent citizens of my country - America? How come all Muslims, who beg and grovel to get in to America and Europe and get all the freebies, have nothing good to say or be grateful but spew hatred of us and tell us how wreteched we are. And, you want me to sympathize with them? GET LOST. I will stand up for these "so called" nice, gentle and loving Muslim immigrants when I see them hold an American flag in their hands and condemn the Muslim attacks on innocents.
11
Which they have done repeatedly, but you are right in one sense. Terrorists are responsible for the deaths you mention. However, the major preventable cause of deaths in the US are deaths by gun violence. 12,000 plus so far this year not counting suicides. Not to mention tnjuries from gun violence. Nobody seems to have the will to do anything about that problem.
1
The Muslims killed by us (since you want a number) were not killed here on our soil, but in their own countries by our missiles and bombs. Or did you miss that?
2
The author wrote:
"Far-right leaders are correct that immigration creates problems; what they miss is that they are the primary problem. The greatest threat to liberal democracies does not come from immigrants and refugees but from the backlash against them by those on the inside who are exploiting fear of outsiders to chip away at the values and institutions that make our societies liberal."
What the author seems to miss is that the far right is adamantly opposed to liberalism, which they see as the greatest threat to Western societies. She seems to think that Western democracies are inherently liberal, but they aren't. The struggle between liberalism & authoritarianism is a feature of Western democracies as much as any other societies, because it is inherent in human nature.
3
Decades ago, I remember my father and brothers debating if wearing a head covering was worth the risk of anti-Semitic attacks. In the end, none of them did. It wasn't a lessening of piety; it was a recognition that, being here, it was best not to stick out.
I also question the characterization of the events in Charlottesville: if the crowd was attacking the car, fleeing into a crowd that was in the intersection, the driver may be exonerated and if the young man who was beaten began by kicking a protester in the back, you could still see the "victim" prosecuted.
Both sides need it each other to perpetuate conflict, so I'm not sympathetic, but I am accepting of grievances both sides feel. I wish this article had been similarly objective.
4
So then how does the west deal with massive immigration -- much of it illegal? Many of these people fled their countries for economic reasons or to avoid violence, reasons that can not be faulted, but did not come to the west because they truly wanted to be western. Huge numbers have completely failed to integrate, learn the language and adopt the culture. Why do we assume that western societies must adapt to them rather than the other way around. I am a Democratic voter and appalled by what I saw from Charlottesville, and yet quite conflicted personally by the left's mantra that we must accept massive immigration as ok. I do fear for western culture and the 1500+ year legacy of Western political progress, something that is precious and truly alien to almost every other part of the planet, most of which remains 1500 years behind (or further).
19
“Massive” immigration? As a percentage of the total population, both here and in Europe, the numbers coming in are small — even if it looks like a lot of people in the photos that you see.
In any case, immigrants usually work harder than the native born (I can see this in California with my own eyes), start more businesses, commit fewer crimes per capita (an easily ascertainable fact) and contribute more to the economy.
As a an aging white Anglo-Saxon Protestant make, I welcome them. But then, I have a brain in my head and can see that they are no threat compared to many of my fellow white males (the late Mr. Paddock of Las Vegas for example).
2
Our national anthems are the most cherished thing we possess This article is an affront to all the white soldiers who died in the last century for their flag, and I am speaking for the soldiers on both sides of the conflict. They all fought and many died to preserve their own way of life. And now we have people trying to tell us that nationalism is destroying the West, what kind of people are they to tell us holding on to our national identity is wrong. And to you NYT, where is the other side to this story, we are in the 21st century and from here on expect more than just this propoganda that tells only half of the story.
11
I'm white, and I don't want to live in a white nationalist country that only works for rich, white people. It makes me sick and scared. If I was 30 I'd move. Everyone is going to regret these trends--Including rich white people. I used to feel so fortunate to have been born in America. Now I genuinely worry about becoming a refugee on a long march to oblivion. Thanks for writing this. Those who need to read it probably won't, or they will read and scoff, and fiddle while Rome burns. We need a lot more writing about this in a lot more places.
5
The naivete and political correctness of the article and the comments are stunning. Has anyone here actually lived outside the country where there are endless slums and lack of civility like india and africa? I have, and america's excellence is built on the value of hard work, innovation, and civility. Importing decay defies common sense, and the public sees right through it, even if endless articles promote otherwise.
24
It's not surprising to see the diversity crew spewing this argument. Sasha is a anti American who has found a perfect outlet for her small world of confirmatory thought and denial. Forced acculturation is the only appropriate strategy for immigrants and the only one that will successfully thwart the kind of deep polarization that Sasha likes and wants to promote. White nationalist is merely the latest catch word for conservative Americans who created the USA and made it a country that is so attractive to the immigrants that they swarm here. Denial of this "proof" is a necessary part of the delusion of the diversity crowd.
17
America has always been hard on immigrants, from the Irish and Germans, to the Eastern Europeans and the anarchists who came with them, and the Mexicans and Central Americans who came here more recently.
Like most big lies, theirs contains grains of truth which, like the camel's nose under the tent, gets people to listen long enough for them to sell the rest of their program. And the truth is this: the world is overpopulated, and Western democracies with their lower birth rates, are being used as overflow for populations from places that have higher birthrates. Instead of controlling their population, they are sending their excess to fill up the space left by those who are controlling their population, i.e.: the Western democracies.
Should we stop immigration? Emphatic No. Should we keep a strict cap on the numbers? Yes. Just like the anarchists who infiltrated with the Eastern Europeans, the jihadis will get caught or die off, and the descendants of the immigrants will hopefully become as American as the rest of us. However we don't want these future Americans to live in a country that is overpopulated like China, India, or Bangladesh, and we don't want to give those places the impression that we will take the excess when they fail to correct their own problems.
14
What's destroying American society is economic inequality. Yesterday, the Washington Post ran an article about an Indiana company shifting production to Mexico because its U.S. employees were making $25 an hour, while its Mexican workforce will be paid $6 an hour. By comparison, the CEO was paid $40 million. Of course share prices went up, so the job losses were just part of our "growing" economy.
And what exactly does $25 per hour get you? Well, you can afford a car, maybe a house (in the Rust Belt). And, you might even be able to afford medical care. That's about it. But opinion makers have decided that this standard of living for working-class Americans is unsupportable. So the yack-yack class views $12 an hour as a perfectly acceptable wage for anyone without a college education.
Of course, you can't actually live on $12 an hour. If you're lucky, you might have a car. No way can you afford to go to the doctor, buy a house, or pay for your child's education.
Needless to say, these people who work full time, but are destitute, are angry. The political class is going to direct that anger somewhere, because it is not going to accept blame for its gross failures. And no matter how many people in the yack-yack class pontificate about race, the anger is not going away as long as the economy is so blatantly rigged against the working class.
10
Different topic here.
It is a very bad time to import endless amounts of low skilled, uneducated immigrants. We usually do so when we NEED workers. Not so much now.
5
White nationalists never take responsibility for their countries' role in creating the conditions where refugees are fleeing failed states.
Western colonialism and imperialism created war, famine, political unrest, and economic failure in much of the third world.
Not just in the distant past, but within the last decade in places like Iraq. The legacy of African colonialism still taints most countries on subsaharan Africa, where national borders were drawn by outsiders with no regard to local culture or tribalism. The exploitation of oil resources in the Middle East still taints most countries there, as well as Western military operations undermining their political systems.
And white nationalists have the nerve to complain when good people want to escape those conditions?
These people never learned the crucial lesson of how to share when they were children. They look at the bounty of their own countries and think it was earned by their own sweat and toil when it was built on the backs of the rest of the world.
5
White supremacy is the antithesis of democracy. Laying claim that protecting ones color or religious beliefs as superior to any alternative reeks of hypocrisy. The idea in itself is as narrow minded and shallow as it gets. Any individual of any color, religion, race or gender should be scored and judged on their value to community and society in general. Looking different and believing differently should never instantly make anyone a lesser human in the eyes of any decent person of compassion.
In essence this is a small world in many ways. We can learn to live together with respect for all others who in turn show respect in return. That or we can continue to decline as hate filled fearful bigots of divisive prejudice.
6
I think two are ideas are confused. One is the purity complex of groups that feel existentially threatened by others who are threatened in reality. These groups are in proximity to each other, and the group that seeks not to fall to the economic or social level of the other potently hates the more threatened group. They often want walls, segregation, or prisons of some sort to literally block out the view of those they could become. It's idiotic that so many groups feel they are the pure while the other is somehow impure. The other reality is economic need and forced migration due to war, climate, or financial corruption/loss. The impoverished and threatened do not live with the wealthy; even in cities, they are segregated. They go to those a little above them, economically, and if in large enough numbers, change environments by their presence. White nationalists have murdered and threatened many in the full expression of their terror and senescence; so have the Islamic extremists as they confront a world where women in particular want more power and options for a better life. While we must fight against hate and racism, I think we could also do a better job of planning for a terror reaction, and on the diplomacy front, on planning for the movement of peoples where possible, on education, on maintaining wages, unions, and on counter myths to the Puritan purity drug. We are not blood; we are belief. Learn, think, plan, help, fix where possible.
2
White nationalists feed on fear. They are fearful and act out as a caged and threatened animal. White nationalists are also individual people with personal narratives and loved ones and hopes and dreams that - if examined, are at the core- primarily the same as the 'majority'. That is why they are gaining power.
This isn't a story about how too many immigrants have caused the rise of white nationalism. It's the story of how society has been lured into isolated mirror-houses, isolated and fearful people (ironically isolated by their connection via world wide web.) Bankers and bankers and other bankers and those paid off by bankers have stolen our cities and our livelihoods, addicting us to LIKES and 2 day shipping. In our addiction to LIKES we agreed to live in these mirror-huts of isolation, losing touch - literally.
Immigrants aren't part of this story until they were inserted into the narrative by bankers and those paid off by bankers. Until they were falsely introduced into the narrative, they were working and doing the same thing that the rest of us were doing, mostly good, some bad. Just like our immigrant grandparents who were 'legalized' simply by stepping onto our shores.
White nationalism is a old tool - it serves to divert our attention because we can't ignore it, lest it consume the world. But don't waste time on explaining the immigrant's role in this. S/he wasn't there in those mirror huts.
1
If one is discussing the "West" what other color would nationalism take but "white." Similarly, nationalism in China and India, to name a just the two largest countries, would take a different hue. But in India, nationalism is conflated with Hinduism and in China, you are Han or something less.
It's time for western "liberals" to stop berating themselves for whatever guilt they might experience and stop painting everyone who doesn't share their "surely every decent person must agree with me" attitudes. Try to create a positive, focused view to the future and refrain from undermining the self-belief of a culture that is trying to right many wrongs. And stop trying to paint the "other" in tones of virtue and decency.
12
Could someone please describe to me how immigration and Islam are irrevocably changing our culture, like so many people sound the warning bells for? It seems to me the only people who are restricting the rights of the LGBTQ community and women are old white men, not Islamic radicals. Meanwhile, immigration from my point of view has only resulted in the ability to finally find authentic Syrian cuisine.
I do not deny that the author takes a very one-sided approach which might be off-putting to some people, but please, someone, educate me on how immigrants and Radical Islam are shaping our culture differently from the current religious extremists in Congress today.
3
Yes, because Muslim countries are bastions of liberalism.
3
Is it the russians who caused the democrats collapse since 2010 or is it the nyt, wapo, bloomberg, etc who are pushing the dems so far left that it has alienated most of the country? I am a midwest democrat and the coastal media/politic has lost their common sense and it's alienating voters. The vast majority of republicans, democrats, and independents are strongly against illegal immigration/open borders. It's irrelevant if the coasts disagree when the majority agree, and the majority dictates the government.
It's truly unfortunate the democrats are now regularly promoting legal and illegal immigration on the same level. Moreover, nyt are articles are asking why immigration should be even tied to work and that muslims are victims. This totally defies common sense. Democrats will simply keep losing elections at all levels as Trump has been able to easy label candidates "open borders", and the left candidates are too afraid to say anything. Look at va governor race where 1st attack on dem candidate by Pence was "sanctuary city" and on ga congressional race as open border/higher taxes. The republicans have the buzz words/"it's that easy" button to beat the dems.
My wife says it best, if the democrats cant adapt, they deserve to lose and the consequences of the mad king
9
In case anyone wanted to look at what is causing the angst and racism, start with austerity and job loss due to globalization.
1
It is not globalization that is the issue. You can’t have it both ways. China is the largest market for GM, Boeing, Caterpillar etc. and millions of jobs are created in America due to billions of Chinese and global consumers. It is the wealth inequality which is the issue with the rich taking away pretty much everything with nothing left for the labor pool.
The refugee crisis is caused by war pushing peoples out of their homes where it is no longer safe to live. They dont want to leave unless they have to. This causes terrorism amongest a very few but it is very effective. The terrorist always say the reason they did the terroist act (if they lived to answer) is because their homeland is occupied by or being bombed by the US. If the middle east were not in crisis there would not be a refugee migration. But we are partially responsible for the crisis by supporting dictators or throwing Sadam Hussien out of power and causing a civil war.
3
Steve Bannon, Putin and their International Mafia Top 1% Global Financial Elite Robber Baron/Radical religion Good Old Boys' Cabal brethren are trying to destroy Western civilization so they can take over every government, privatize and strip the money from the government agencies WE built with OUR hard-earned taxpayer dollars - and meant to protect US from them - and take over the world with predatory, destructive capitalism.
WE THE PEOPLE - average Americans and average people around the world - are the only ones who can stop them and NOW is the time!
11
The refugee crisis opened s Pandora's box, especially after more than 1,200 women were sexually assaulted in various German cities, about 600 in Cologne and 400 in Hamburg on New Year's eve 2015. Since then populists and nationalists have linked crime rates and terrorist attacks to the record influx of refugees.
Although the rates had been distorted, but they have a psychological impact on the wider public. Integration has been slow and not easy. Then came Erdogan to Europe in March during a campaign for a new constitution that would give him more power. He told Turkish citizens that they were Europe's future and encouraged them to have five children each, saying a booming Turkish population would be the best answer to the EU’s “vulgarism, antagonism, and injustice”.
It is true that "white nationalism is in many ways a mirror image of radical Islamism. Both share a nostalgic obsession with a purist form of identity: for one, a medieval Islamic state; for the other, a white nation unpolluted by immigrant blood."
ISIS had looked forward to fighting the ultimate battle against Western infidels as predicted by the Prophet Muhammad - "the last hour will not come" until Muslims vanquished the Romans at Dabiq - a town in the Syria-Turkey border region - on their way to conquer Constantinople.
13
I dare say that during the occupation and settlement of the new world, by mostly Europeans, the mayhem, the rapes, the murders, the pillage, all of it, by these believers and their puritanical bent, far outnumber that which modern day migrants and settlers are accused of.
We ignore our own atrocious actions, even to the point of removing references from our history, creating in our children a false belief in our compassion and goodness.
Would that we could see the benefits of an integrated world, one where race, color, creed, and national origin, don't matter.
From a couple of hundred miles up, there are no borders separating any part of the planet, from any other part; all religious adherents should ask themselves, if they dare, if their God wanted humans to remain within their native lands, why didn't He or She outline the boundaries, defining His or Her mandate, in this regard.
5
I find both this article, and especially the comments, very disturbing. To return to a cliche, we are a nation of immigrants. Every time a new group "invades" the country, there is a backlash against it, along with the fear that we will be taken over by some hostile sociology-political cataclysm.
The fact is that it takes a generation to accomplish true assimilation. Newly arrived immigrants and refugees have always found themselves isolated and overwhelmed trying to navigate a new language and culture. Their children, however, learn the system and get on with adapting and assimilating. I have yet to see how we have been taken over by aliens. Halal and kosher butchers coexist without infringing on each other's traditions; headscarfs and crucifixes don't enforce religious conversion on others.
Right now, there is too much emphasis on identity politics from both the right and the left. Hate and fear have replaced common sense.
11
We need think a lot more about the dynamic of being at war for 15 years with societies whose refugees are now rapidly immigrating into those very same countries who are still at war with their native land. Add to this the fact the the few terrorist attacks in the host countries are of the same ethnic background as the refugees and you have a recipe for disaster.
Let's think back for a minute to the Vietnam War. Let's suppose that at the same time that the war was happening, we allowed an influx of North Vietnam refugees into the country and that a few originally from North Vietnam carried out terroristic actives in the US. It would have resulted in the same reaction if not worse. In fact, there were those that even protested the US soldiers' return let alone immigrants. We only saw a large influx of Vietnamese refugees AFTER the war.
I am not saying that this excuses current behavior or the discriminatory polices being erected. However, maybe we think a bit more about ways to avoid and mitigate waving a red flag in front of a proven human reaction. Maybe that starts by finally ending these fruitless wars in the Middle East.
5
Fear of other is 'baked in' our DNA by evolution and the imperative to fend off 'enemy' quickly identified or face death at the hands of a marauder only vaguely sensed as 'different'. It is the responsibility of culture and governance to foster tolerance but political leaders gain ascendance when they can accurately define those who oppose the values that define a sentient group while encouraging repudiation of those not in accord. The identifying facet of difference can be as incidental a kneeling during the playing of a national anthem to protest inequity recognized by some but opposed by a president who plays with bigotry to gain and consolidate power by appealing to the vulnerability we all feel to attack by 'other'. To overcome bigotry requires much of a community and its families since traditions define such communities. We might address these issues with tack recognizing the inherent survival value of such reactions but then also address the humane virtues of brotherhood and sisterhood and the irrationality of incidental attributes amidst of shared need for community. These processes are filed with horror and atrocities and all the primitive attributes of our species and will never be eradicated without constant vigilance and awareness and negotiation with each other.
2
In a global community, in a world woven with by population sharing a common genetic and "racial" origin, just who can the other be, except a fabrication constructed for the furtherance of political gain?
2
Accepting the premise "white nationalist", which is absurd; but here goes. Which came first? The rebellion against Progressive philosophy, or a burning desire for whites to be nationalists? Failed Progressive ideology, came first; and it failed all over the world. Which is why democracies are giving up of the fanciful notion of self-aggrandizement, and returning to traditions. Call it nationalism (Though an entire globe seems united in nationalism), populism ( probably more accurate at the moment), it sure aint Progressive socialism. Whatever, it is a return to sanity. And that sanity is, waking up tomorrow knowing the plans being made for futures will be workable. As opposed to constant uncharted-change; forever keeping futures in flux, i.e. uncertain. Translation: High Anxiety! And that, aint sanity; it is being rejected by the sane.
10
Flux is the only true reality. The only thing which is certain is change.
To reject that fundamental principle of existence is truly insane.
You can't freeze time and culture and ideas and technology and control the world. It doesn't work like that.
So what if in 100 years there are new cultures and languages as a result of endless mixing and diversity, and nothing recognizable of today exists?
We will all be better off for it.
You see the natural drive to evolve as something to be anxious about. Try enjoying the ride!
3
Bosh. If you think "progressive ideology" was tried and has failed, you need to define your terms, including "failed".
Progressives saved capitalism from itself. In the United States, FDR's New Deal restructured the banks, supported unions, and created social security. In Europe, democratic socialism did much the same. In both cases they defeated fascism, although in Europe that victor came late and at great cost.
If that system failed, it's a peculiar kind of failure that has brought historic prosperity and peace to the free world. Not perfect, to be sure; it is after all the product of man. But far better than the wars and bloodshed that came before, and obviously more successful than fascism.
Change is the only constant. Your apparent belief that different politics can hold it back, or should, is a dangerous illusion.
In living memory a woman couldn't vote or own property without her husband's consent. Cigarettes were smoked in bars and offices. Homosexuality was illegal, as was abortion. There were 3 TV networks, and GM made the most popular car. None of that is true today. The earth continues to turn on its axis, and we adapt.
The problems that confront us today are uniformly those the right ignores, while pointing to nonproblems. The continuing growth in wealth and income inequality, incessant warmongering, the capture of congress by the malefactors of great wealth, the 50,000 Americans who die each year of untreated disease. Start there.
2
In France, what is being protected is the individual's right to choose whether to wear the burkini or not: the woman's, not her father, husband, brother, or male guardian. The burkini is a religious garment but not an occupational one like those worn by priests or nuns. Therefore, the French expect (and rightly so) that those who come to live there will live in the French manner, especially as France is their native land. One does not have outsiders coming into one's home and telling one how to live.
17
Does one tell one's neighbors how to dress? Does how I dress tell you how to live?
You are confusing house with country. One is yours is exclusively, the other you share with your fellow citizens.
If you take a moment, I'll bet you can do honk of examples of people born in your own country who dress and act in ways you disagree with or maybe disapprove of. In which case it's not immigrants you don't like, it's ... people.
1
I don't tell people to change their clothes when they come into my home.
Head scarves are just fine.
And if the burkini is banned, then the woman's choice to wear it or not is no longer being protected.
1
Ignorance. The human animal will believe anything. The only antidote is a good education. This is an old, old story. Plato's, The Republic, 2400 years ago, for Pete's sake. Seems we have learned little of importance since then.
10
Define good education. Unbiased education is an oxymoron. Education is inherently biased. You can’t expect the mass to be just as smart or have critical thinking skills that only the better educated possess.
The reactions of native people to the influx of persons of a very different culture are natural and easily predictable. Nobody should be surprised.
12
Native?? Please define what you mean by that. At what point is someone a “native” of some geographical location on the planet?
2
Whether or not white nationalists are the problem (and they certainly are no help), the article veers toward the mindset that A Clockwork Orange style re-eduction is the solution. Is it possible that beyond a certain point, the melting pot breaks down? Say that we did not limit immigration to some agreed on level, then we would necessarily need to reform misguided nativists. Both options strike me as unpalatable, but which is worse?
6
I do not deny the threat that white nationalism poses to liberal societies, especially to personal and economic freedoms.
However, it is foolish to think that people from many different cultures can just live side by side without tension in a democratic society.
A democratic society requires shared values, a common culture, and high levels of both personal responsibility and social trust. To have these things in a highly "diverse" society is almost impossible, and not just because of some sort of simplistic "racism". People know from EXPERIENCE that the close proximity of certain cultural groups pose a direct threat to their safety, their freedom to dwell comfortably in their culture, and require additional economic investment often with little benefit in return. They know the "other" is very much looking out first for their own. At the same time, the tight knit communities they have always known are disintegrating. Why is it shocking that they find it unpleasant to live in a society like this?
Most affluent white "liberals" in the West of course know this, and they effectively segregate themselves into enclaves with a shared culture and status while lecturing everyone else. Why are they shocked that the plebians just want what the rich can purchase and resent being called by "racists" by people whose money insulates them from the downsides of "diversity"?
Simplistic White Nationalism is just an honest reaction to the also simplistic Multiculturalist ideology.
18
Meanwhile, Russia, whose interventions in Syria accelerated the immigrant crisis in Europe, whose cyber campaigns have fomented ideological divisions and sabotaged elections throughout the West, whose goal is to weaken Western democracies by sowing such divisions and chaos, sits back and laughs.
6
It's too late to contain life forces which we may like or not. The genes, the races, are so far beyond "pure" containment within any one group now that we may as well just sit back and marvel at the "grand design" of the mixtures we have and watch where it leads this world which daily participates in the continued creation of the universe. If this bothers you, just think of mongrel dogs vs. purebreds. The mongrels, it seems, are much better adapted to life. Genetic purity in humans may not live up to its current marketing either. In the meantime let's be kinder to each other. One never knows...
5
It's the progressives that are destroying the "liberal democracies" by overemphasizing individual values and the accompanying rampant narcissism at the expense of the collective values required to make a society function for all. The nationalists are just taking advantage of that.
4
I know of no Democrat who wants open borders. Those here saying they do are not being factual. People are all immigrants, know we need them for our economy's growth, and our cultural diversity, but want them to stand in line like our ancestors did. Big difference.
11
Who gets to decide when there is enough cultural diversity?
And why is cultural diversity a measure as to why we must take in immigrants?
6
I'm trying to think of this argument from the proper perspectives. First let me say, I am in no way making light of the seriousness of the dangers most refugees face. But let's try the other foot, here. If, after a few years under our Cheeto in chief, life here becomes intolerable and unsafe, I might need to flee to Canada. So I move heaven and earth and risk all my family's lives to get to Canada. Thank gods now I'm safe in Canada. But I'm still wearing my cowboy boots and football jersey. I don't want to trade them for a hockey jersey and duckboots! But the Hockey Jersey and Duckboot Consortium are getting really sore at me. The Poutine People have a problem with me because I only eat barbeque ribs. Who's side should we be on here? The intelligent Canadians understand that, since I'm FLEEING the United States, I'm probably not sneaking over a homegrown arsenal of military grade weapons under my MAGA hat. (I said probably, and they're going to check.) That's one of the reasons I left there in the first place! Sounds a lot different now, doesn't it?
6
Canada is no longer open to Americans fleeing across the border. You need to deposit a large sum of money to even visit. They don't want you, so don't worry about duck boots or your MAGA hat.
4
"If the influence of white nationalists continues to grow, they will eventually seek to trample the rights of immigrants and minorities and dismiss courts and constitutions as anti-democratic because they don’t reflect the supposed preferences of “the people.” Their rise threatens to transform countries that we once thought of as icons of liberalism into democracies only in name."
"If", surely you jest.
The ideal supposedly enshrined in the word Democracy, was always a fiction, a fiction designed by the powerful to appeal to groups in favor of true freedom, the Bernie Sanders type supporter.
Bernie and his believers posed the single greatest threat to the powerful, in the short history of the fake American democracy, and was shot down, viciously, by both mainstream parties, and a complicit media, in favor of anything, no matter how authoritarian, the goal at all costs being the maintenance of the status quo, and incrementalism, used with tremendous success to economically enslave and disenfranchise the poor and the middle-class.
Seeking to blame the 63 million Trump acolytes for this disaster, is just another subterfuge.
3
You got to be kidding, Bernie is the best thing happening to our democracy at this moment.
1
The Danish author, Klais Rifbjerg, stated in an interview shortly before he died, that there are about 2000 gifted people in Denmark - the rest are stupid. I'm not sure that I belong in his pantheon of the 2000, but there is a truth in it: Danish politics, almost all across the board, is catering to stupid people to the point of nausea. Just his week a ban on the burka was enacted after many lengthy discussions and media coverage. There are about 100 muslim women who wear this piece of clothing in Denmark. The problem, if there is any, is miniscule and yet the politicians press it to the top of the agenda. If one should find an excuse for them, it could be that so much of the really important legislation is now decided in the EU, leaving the national politicians with only the crumbs and so they spend their time on petty trifles like this.
3
I just visited my doctor in Brooklyn and told him I missed living there. “Why”, he asked. I miss seeing and having the opportunity to interact with Chinese, Russians, Egyptians, Poles, Syrians, Sicilians, Italians, Israelis, Yemenis, Peruvians, Vietnamese, Malaysians, and more each and every day.
My doctor is in Bath Beach, still a melting pot. My sister is in Bay Ridge, where the “white Americans” feel threatened by the growing Muslim presence on Fifth Avenue. The difference between the neighborhoods is striking; Bath Beach feels harmonious and international, while Bay Ridge feels insular and fearful. I think multi-national neighborhoods like Bath Beach are our best defense against “white nationalism”.
6
If the USA had devoted no resources to Europe or Japan after WW2, there would be very little “white civilization” to celebrate, and immigrants from those nations would be flooding across our borders today like refugees from any other part of the world.
The lesson is that if we cooperated and invested more in the people of Africa, Middle East, South and Central America, our immigration problem would be far less. After NAFTA was enacted a generation ago, the flow of Mexicans across our southern border was reduced significantly.
The “terrorists” and “criminals” overseas were born innocent, but after years of deprivation and abuse developed into full-time troublemakers. The same happens to white people. Russians are white, but their leaders are thugs and criminals who cheat and abuse them, so now a significant number of those white Russian-Europeans have become terrorists and criminals who “immigrate” across international borders using digital technology while their bodies stay at home.
The immigration problem in free and prosperous nations signals that more must be done to bring freedom and prosperity to other nations.
A key impediment to that effort has been the profit-maximizing policies of developed nations, which treat less-developed nations as places where cheap resources can be purchased from their kleptocrat leaders. As we enrich today’s warlords, kings and dictators, we create future generations of terrorists and criminals for world to deal with.
5
German Chancellor Angela Merkel started it all by allowing some 2 million Muslims to enter Europe. Austria now is about to get a 31 year old Ultra Right PM. The rest of Europe will follow. Forward to the Past.
12
Read this article on my phone. It appeared just above the article about the twin Somalia bombings that killed 200. I am one of those closed minded nationalists.
16
We all forget too easily that the person we are best able to fix is ourselves. Blaming others, labeling others, misses the glaring fact that we are all immigrants.
Sadly, there are many examples of iniquities from all the world's monotheistic religions: Islam, Christianity, Judaism all have had their "crusades". People give the voices in their heads the status of god and then they go out and commit mayhem. It's bad, very bad.
But these religions also harbor vast numbers of good and generous people trying to do their best.
It would be much better to provide universally accessible birth control and choices for women everywhere.
Climate change is a threat multiplier. We will have more and more migrations as desperate people try to survive.
There are no good answers.
7
Hi Susan, yes I named those same groups but in a different way. I used to write that it amazed me that so many American comment writers seem unaware of the views on women held by subgroups of various religions in America. It no longer amazes me.
Larry L.
1
Actually some of us, believe it or not, were born here. We are technically not immigrants. I am tired of this refrain. Where can we Americans return to? I can only wish that I could simply return to where my ancestors arrived from but it is not legal. I hear living in Denmark is pretty nice.
5
Thank you for writing this thoughtful article. White nationalists have often remade history to delete attention to the presence of persons or structures that impede their unquenchable desire for the accumulation of more power.
Years ago, I was invited by the Yearly Meeting of New Zealand/Aotearoa to witness the soul-searching brought about by the anniversary of the Treaty of Waitangi. Before making that trip, I had no idea what that treaty was. After my arrival in New Zealand/Aotearoa, I learned when the Pakehas (newcomers of European ancestry) considered all indigenous persons to be superfluous. Those persons known as the Maori were not considered to be citizens when New Zealand became a nation. Effectively, the many sheep inhabiting the North and South Islands possessed greater agency.
This process of dislocation and dis-empowering has continued unabated throughout history. White nationalists can never be "the people" when democracy has never been a preferred modes-operandi.
5
"In much of Europe, fear of jihadists (who pose a genuine security threat) and animosity toward refugees (who generally do not)..."
This last is a blind spot on the Times' part. The Rape Crisis in Europe is being caused, not by terrorists, but by flooding the countries with people from cultures where unescorted women are fair game., no questions asked. In Sweden, over 3/4 of all rapes are committed by a group that makes up 2% of the population.
The threats to the economy is another fact the article doesn't take into account. But that should be nothing new to the Times, who once spoke glowingly of an immigrant town that had kept wages down and busted up the local union. This poses no threat to the Rich, it's true, but a considerable one to the Poor and Middle Class.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/29/business/economy/storm-lake-iowa-immi...
39
Statistics, or as Benjamin Franklin said, damned lies?
The Left is destroying the West by opening the borders to the Third World.
31
Except that in real life, those people represent less than 5% of the West's population (and no Western country is taking measures that would exceed 10%, in the far away future, whereas of course by then third-generation adults will already have become ordinary citizens, rather than remaining strangers).
Could you please explain how those 5-10% poor, new citizens somehow could destroy entire countries ... ?
5
Eric it seems you didn't read the article
1
The Right created the Third World through centuries of genocide, oppression, colonialism, and imperialism.
Now it doesn't even have the decency to recognize its victims' common humanity.
1
Extremism of any description is the problem. Extreme nationalism is problematic because it creates the other, which alienates people, escalates hatred and leads to violence. This article is right on the money. It doesn't give us a way forward, but it does give us a chance to open our eyes to what some of us are doing.
11
Please compare Canada's physical size/acreage to the physical size of France, Denmark, Germany, Italy, Austria, even to the US or all of western Europe combined. Why are Canadians so blissfully unaware of the UNIQUE advantage that all that unoccupied land bestows on them? There is simply much,much more room for immigrants in Canada than there is in any other country, except maybe Russia. Therefore, the problems of limitless immigration and assimilation are not the same in Canada as they are in other countries. And, btw, the US ALREADY takes in more immigrants than any other country on earth, (including Canada) and that's true even if you only count legal immigrants.
9
That's pretty nonsensical.
Virtually every Canadian lives near the US border. Most of the rest of the country is barren and uninhabitable.
The USA has more habitable land than Canada does.
3
White nationalism is among the forces striving to demolish democracy as we know it. Our government functions because of compromise, different groups negotiating to reach goals that work for all. With the rise of the tea party, compromise went the way of eight track players. When extreme groups say 'my way or the highway' they mean they'll destroy everything if they don't get their way. That led to gridlock which led to disgust with the process which may lead to an authoritarian government. Trump, Bannon, et al, desire nothing less.
11
While focusing on the macro, we need to be vigilant against the micro too. And the microcosm of White Nationalism is White Urban Gentrification.
They really are similar! Both scapegoat and demonize "the other" that threatens to upend their pristine capitalist shopping, safe experiences, ethnocentric "standards" driven STEM education, and a relentless striving for perfection and purity. Occasionally the two intersect, as when a victim of globalism and migration harmed two white Boston doctors in their upscale community earlier this year. Because the doctors died in the incident - a robbery gone awry, but really just a case of vast inequality coming to a logical conclusion - the good white liberal gentrifiers of the community were up in arms, instead of sticking up for the rights of the migrant who allegedly committed the act.
This story plays itself out over and over again, throughout liberal enclaves across the nation. White gentrifiers are now starting to put in tag readers, cameras, and more sophisticated surveillance systems. All are a manifestation of racism, pure and simple. And yet we have the chagrin and lack of self awareness to criticize Trump's border wall for its racism!
And this is why the micro is worse than the macro; being progressives, we should be caring and aware enough not to lock the "other" out, but to welcome them in. And not into someone else's community, but into our own. We need to open our own homes, and drop the hypocrisy.
7
What is your plan to house them without lowering the cost of housing? Isn't that both the cause and effect of gentrification? The current winners (the STEM folks) need housing, so they purchase or rent the spaces that the "others" used to live in, Larger money displaces smaller money, and the displaced people turn to criminality to survive, and to help them feel like they are not just excess to be pushed out of the way.
1
Defending the man who murdered these doctors is ridiculous.
There are many similar to him in Boston yet they don't murder innocent people for no reason. Their murders were heinous and inexcusable.
2
To all comment writers who have never known a Muslim who does not fit each writer's belief that all Muslims are as you characterize them. Numerous examples are available in the comments.
Just as all Christians are not the same, so too must you try to accept that not all Muslims are the same. One way to learn this would be to volunteer at some center in your home town where people of many different backgrounds come, perhaps to get help learning English, perhaps for some other reason.
I have been doing this for 18 years at the Red Cross in Linköping, SE and have by now met 1000s of people born Muslims and have 1000s of their signatures in books I have kept over the years.
The majority are ordinary people many of whom you might learn to like if you spent some time. Of course, those asylum seekers who come to the Red Cross are people who want to learn, who want to become one more of the now 10,000,000 Swedish citizens of which I am one.
Try it.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
9
White supremacists are indeed a big problem in the US especially because the executive branch of government is not condemning them. Islam is indeed also a big problem because the liberal left has, with few exceptions, embraced it . See Ms Merket, May, Trudeau,, and so on. By embracing it , I mean a complete refusal to see any connection with violence (never mind al hazaar university begs to differ, the fatwa on Salman Rusdie) women's rights abuses ( see Rothetham on England ), shariah law in England., homosexual rights abuses This article seems to follow the trend
The problem is there is the liberal left and alt right and not many voices of reason in between
11
So he wants to neutralize and silence the white nationalists. Good luck on that.
Think of it as identity politics for white people. Once they've grasped this, there is no going back. Tribalism is a reality, and a natural protective mechanism when you perceive you're under attack, and aliens are trying to destroy the house you built. The battle lines are drawn, and no amount of rhetoric will return the US or Europe to accept unlimited unassimable hostile invasion.
We built the house and we know it. No amount of elite propaganda will change anybody's mind here, so pick your sides.
16
We can’t wish away the effects of keeping the US military in the Middle East for decades in pursuit of oil.
We can’t wish away the effects of millions of Muslims killed in Iraq, Syria, Yemen etc by the western military alliance in pursuit of our own interests.
We can’t wish away the effects of colonialism which took away trillions of dollars from Asia, Africa and Americas leaving the native population poor and angry while the west enjoyed the plunder for centuries.
We can’t wish away the effects of burning billions of tons of carbon in to the atmosphere affecting the lives of billions of Africans, Asians and others while walking away without any repercussions .
We can’t wish that China and India will not retake their historical position as the top two economies of the world after centuries of colonialism during which their economies were shattered by a combination of plundered resources from Americas and slave labor.
We can’t always be the only tribe that gets the spoils of every war and every catastrophe that befell the rest of the world.
At some point we have to own up to our share of global responsibilities and embrace the progress of human civilization as our own because for long we have been the plunderers. No more. We are wealthy, educated and we have to lead the human civilization to a better place.
It is our solemn duty to educate, provide and lead the less fortunate from whom we took so much for so long.
9
As I recall, Rudyard Kipling said something very equivalent more than a century ago: "Take up the white man's burden......"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Man%27s_Burden
As I understand it, Kipling was saying this from a sense of moral responsibility, where you are stating it as a moral responsibility, but also from a sense of guilt, of reparations as it were. Is this a correct understanding?
Kipling said it from the perspective of a European man of his times. I don’t like the term white applied to people of European origin alone simply because caucasians are in Iran to India to Turkey to the entire Middle East.
Those were the days when the West assumed they are somehow better than the rest when reality said otherwise. The west slaughtered the native Americans, brought China to its knees by pumping American plunder and goods produced on the back of slave labor into China for almost nothing. But the western writers and elite simply didn’t have the moral courage to see it as plunder and brutal subjugation of the rest of the world for their benefits alone. The world never ever saw genocide of the scale seen in the Americas, ever. It is much easier to placate their own sense of shame by somehow saying all the plunder and imposition of western dominance and Christianity is good for the native people of the Americas,Africa and Asia.
It takes intelligence and civilizational maturity to look at all humanity as one. It is not only immoral and shameful to preside over the destruction of millions of species, causing global damage to thousands of communities in the world in scrounging for oil and other resources, dumping carbon into the atmosphere that is changing the climate of the world BUT also it is simply reprehensible. As civilizations become smart they tend to think big and become inclusive. India and Buddhism is a good example. We seem to become more tribal.
1
Why were the middle class and up moving from China to places like Vancouver? Now Xi has enacted restrictions on assets; you can leave, but you cannot take your assets with you. The industrial power China has initiated has also created an environmental catastrophe: air not fit to breathe in Beijing, the capital. Agriculture wastelands due to unregulated industrial waste dumping upstream from their fields. The long standing tradition of bribing public officials is still healthy and well in China. Free speech does not really exist in China; free press and other media does not exist in China. China is not a model of progress; it is a closed very restricted environment.
Why are there host countries at all? A UN report says that more that 244 million people are living outside of their native countries as refugees. They don't want to learn new languages or trades or skills necessarily. They are dispossessed in their homelands. The population of the Islamic world has been mushrooming for decades and the population of males under 30 is quite large. These people are largely climate refugees unable to make a living in their homelands they have no choices but to move or die. Witness Syria a country enduring a civil war because drought killed wheat farming forcing people to move to cities with inadequate support. Vladimir Putin takes full advantage of this in creating a diaspora that has destabilized the west all the way to London and Washington. We are asking the wrong questions, having the wrong discussions about all this. The situation won't get better unless we begin figuring out how to adequately provide fresh water and other vital resources that can prevent diasporas.
18
And provide birth control.
4
Even just reading the comments here, I can't help but think of how disappointed I am in our country and its citizens.
7
White nationalism is a bedrock ideology of Western civilization. It was the basis for the conquest of the so-called New World and the subsequent colonization of non-white populations across the globe. The hallmark of history over the last century has been pushback against white nationalism by non-white populations in the form of independence movements and the struggle for civil and human rights. Western democracies were being forced to live up to their rhetorical ideals, internally and internationally. Having enriched and developed themselves through the hostile takeover and exploitation of foreign lands, they morphed into "liberal democracies." Now a growing historical tide of global migration of these formerly marginalized peoples due in no small part machinations of these same democracies: invasions, coups, sanctions. and globalization. History never forgets and never forgives.
10
Blame it on the "diversity" movement that demands recognition and privileges for every ethnicity other than European-Americans. Don't be surprised that they demand a share of the pie.
"Diversity" brought us the alt-right and Trump. Hasn't it done enough harm?
18
White nationalists or supremacists believe the white race is superior to all others and should be preserved. Wanting to reduce immigration, which has exploded in the last 50 years (the share of immigrants in the US has risen from 4.7% in 1970 to 13.5% today) does not mean you think whites are superior. Wanting to promote the "melting pot" where immigrants become Americans and learn our system of government and our culture while we adopt some of their culture (like their food or celebrations) does not mean you think whites are superior. The distillation of nuanced concepts into pithy, offensive labels plagues our country right now and stops any meaningful discourse. We are right to think our country is superior, and what makes it superior is our system of government. But democracy is fragile; our focus must be preserving our democracy. Maybe that means reducing immigration. Maybe it means more civics classes in school. Maybe it's something else. But it's not further divisiveness.
14
"I defend my cemetery." "You will not replace us."
How do we engage in any meaningful dialog or negotiation with a politics subsumed by Blood Mystery--grounded, in turn, in narcissistic rage and an implacable sense of my-way-or-the-highway entitlement)?
I think the answer is, We can't and We don't. Our democracy is founded on the idea that all voices have a place at the table ... but that was after we fought and won a war against uncompromising anti-democratic voices and forces. Similarly, the current surge of white nationalism must be robustly contained, not entertained as another voice at the table that would subjugate and kill-off all dissenting voices.
How to construct that container? Not with rational arguments, which can organize our own thinking, but drive the narcissistically enraged back into their shell. Rationality, our slow cumbersome frontal lobes, can't mobilize with the same compelling power that something like Blood Mystery mobilizes the much faster subcortical regions that recruit the frontal lobes for problem-solving.
We need to find images and narratives of the same automatically mobilizing power, that hold these people up to the world for the chumps that they are. "Adult day care," is a great start, and we need many, many more.
3
Just stop the open door immigration, and the phony virtue signalling it accompanies, and the support for the right will vanish.
23
The problem with assimilating immigrants that seem to be opportunists and resentful of American ways is that there is no equivalent exodus of opportunistic Americans flooding the job market in their native cities and pushing regular good old American culture. Do you think that would be tolerated in, for example Pakistan or Syria? Do you think there would be a huge violent backlash to large number of good old Americana families taking their jobs and dressing in shorts, cut offs, etc. I don't think so.
The tolerance expected of the West is, in modern times, always unilateral when it comes to immigration and competition for jobs. America it seems is a open competition arena for the world, but it never works i the other direction.
What would Mexicans do in their cities and in rural areas if millions of unemployed Americans form Appalachia and Detroit and Baltimore decided to illegally cross the Rio Grand river and desperately accept ANY job and undercut wages. Do you think Mexican society would be OK with that or would we see mass killings?
I am a democrat, but one has to wonder how the middle class of America came to like Trump and dislike Hillary. If you are asked to accommodate immigrants who resent your life style and then take your job, then YOU TOO would be angry.
Have a nice day.
24
Yeah if Americans moved en masse to any country without assimilating the apple pie would hit the fan.
5
“White nationalism is in many ways a mirror image of radical Islamism. Both share a nostalgic obsession with a purist form of identity: for one, a medieval Islamic state; for the other, a white nation unpolluted by immigrant blood.”
Both white nationalism and radical Islamism are serious threats to societies where they are present. The violence of radical Islamism has energized the white nationalist movement, and helped it grow stronger. This in turn has made life more difficult for immigrants fleeing war zones and destructive regimes. Do not minimize the pernicious effect of radical Islamism.
11
The problem is radical Islam didn’t come up in vacuum. Radical Islam rose when America supported the very same jihadists in Afghanistan when they were funded and provided with guns to fight the soviet expansionism. Radical Islam rose in response to permanent placement of American military (that has killed millions )in the middle of Iraq, Saudi, Bahrain, UAE, Turkey etc to maintain the uninterrupted flow of oil and gas. Radical Islam rose when Saudis with the US wink wink let the wahhabi zealots spread the most virulent form of Islam all over the world in return for untrammeled hold over oil for the royal family.
Remove the source of all trouble, bring the US military back and stop fighting the oil wars that has caused the spread of radical Islam which in turn has awakened the dormant white nationalism. Not only that, oil has caused run away climate change which feeds this hate cycle even more by causing drought and famine which displaces people by the millions.
I work at a New England resort. Just this morning I spoke at length with an older couple from Africa, visiting the USA for the first time. They had driven from Florida (stayed during the hurricane) and up the east coast to Vermont. They were gaga over the American people; they had met folks of every conceivable race and everyone was open, friendly, and made them feel welcome. Evidently their friends said “Why go there, those Americans are horrible”. They pledged to “sort that lot” when they returned home. Don’t give up hope people. USMC 72-76
6
I don't think this author is going to get much sympathy or credibility for this article. Multiculturalism just does not seem to work. Even Angela Merkel has said that. The refugees she has admitted to Germany must become German, or they go back, is what she said. Just how realistic is it to expect thousands from the Middle East, tribal and Muslim, a religion founded in anti-Judea Christian mode, to become German, or French, Austrian, Polish, or British? Or American? France, Holland, and Belgium demonstrate the problem in major ways.
23
To N. T. Ente: As a white Brazilian of French descent I feel very fortunate to live in a country where almost 50% of its population is black! I live in (80% black) Salvador, the first capital of Brazil, and I would like to invite you to come here and get a taste of our food, music, dance (capoeira), religious syncretism. I bet you will change your mind!
5
Brazil is also the per capita murder capital of the Americas, with vast income inequality and a dysfunctional and corrupt political class.
No doubt a beautiful country with wonderful traditions, but you have tremendous problems and violence that would shock most North Americans, so let that temper your obvious enthusiasm.
5
Our neighbor's son studied Native American history and culture in his elementary school social studies class. He was so excited about his newly learned facts. He enthusiastically rattled off lists of achievements and gifts of our own Native Americans who lived in these lands way before white Europeans arrived. https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/history/traditional-societies/10-n...
But soon after he shared his excitement his face fell and he whispered, we ruined it. I asked what did we ruin, he said white Europeans were totally ignorant fools, they just did not know anything about the delicate balance in nature that made our lands the most gorgeously livable on the planet.
Here's the list: many Native Americans were matrilineal; they were most healthy; they had impressive city building skills; oldest democracies; skilled doctors; brilliant inventors; highly advanced farmers and accurate time keepers.
5
And I suppose it would be anathema to teach him about Greece, Rome, The Renaissance, Rembrandt, Lister, Wilbeforce, etc. All western, white European culture is not bad, and has, in fact, contributed much to the improvement and joy in the world. But we can't say that anymore!
13
Native American history is not without its own blunders and issues, and we have to them in addition to recognizing the genocide that occurred against them. Claiming they have some of the "oldest democracies" is clearly fallacious. Native American cultures that had written histories (Aztec, Mayan, Olmec, Inca, etc.) clearly do not hold democratic values, but rather monarchy fiefdoms with ruling elites. Nor do Native American societies with extensive archaeological records, but no written language system (e.g. Anasazi). Additionally, there is no evidence that Native Americans were more respecting of the delicate balance of nature than other societies (i.e. the New World Holocene extinction), especially when compared to Eastern traditions like Buddhism, Jainism or Hinduism. All of the ideas you cite were espoused by utopian archaeologists of the 1920s that wanted to further the idea of the "Noble Savage" and advance their own political inclinations. Historic Native Americans were people, just like you and I, who had their own feuds, warfare, and were simply people living off the land.
By implicitly vilifying all things European and elevating all other societies as superior, you are actually giving White Nationalists a leg up as your position is unrealistic. Those on the fence will view your position as not based in critical thinking (which it isn't), and be more inclined to agree with opposing view points such as the one that White Nationalists give.
7
Read 1491 by Charles Mann and discover how these various Native Americans got along before the Euros arrival. Not a Utopia.
6
The worldwide rise in populism (white nationalism) is a symptomatic reaction to decades long push of progressivism, globalism, multiculturalism, political correctness, and the idea that big daddy government knows better how we should act and live.
Liberalism/progressivism/socialism/marxism have all failed resulting in a huge political push back against the political elites and the political class of many countries.
These elitist have no one to blame but themselves as they cling to power and try to resist the will of their electorate.
The tide is turning.
When will busy body progressives realize that their agenda is being rejected - people want choice, freedom, and liberty not more moralizing and big daddy government looking over their shoulder.
Progressivism is the real disease infecting our Republic.
15
"Yet despite the breathless warnings of impending Islamic conquest sounded by alarmist writers and pandering politicians . . . Islamists are not on the verge of seizing power . . . or even winning significant political influence at the polls."
London has a huge Muslim population and is only 45% Christian. It also now has a Muslim mayor. I call that influence at the polls.
When a small sect of Jews in London in 2016 ago issued an edict against women driving their children to school as "immodest", Nicki Morgan, former Secretary of State for Education and Minister for Women and Equalities in the Cameron government, bawled, "This has no place in modern Britain!"
Oddly, the Hon. MP for Loughborough does think women in burkas belong in "modern" Britain, because she won't say a word against them.
You know what the difference for Morgan was, Mr. Polakow-Suransky? Demographics. There are only 600 Jews in that sect, but Britain's 5 million Muslims are its largest and fastest growing minority, and their numbers rise every year through immigration from Pakistan, Egypt, and Somalia. And they haver larger families.
That's a lot of votes. To whom is this particular politician pandering?
Demographics reshape culture-the increasing numbers of veiled women in Britain, which by not banning the burka sends a message to young girls that the government views this as an acceptable view of women, gives the lie to your disingenuous statement, which should have ended with the word "yet".
18
This article is extremely naive - in it’s deliberate ignorance of the threat Islam presents not only to Europe but to the entire planet. Islam is not solely a religion - it is a civilization and an extremely dysfunctional civilization which is hostile to all Western liberal values. Migration from Islamic nations into Europe has produced numerous insular communities that essentially,function as quasi independent Islamic republics. Has Sasha Polakow-Suransky ever visited some of the banlieues in France or similar communities in the UK or the Netherlands? If these Islamic migrations produced anything any nation would want within its borders, perhaps your arguments would have a sounder basis in fact. The reality is that they have not. The fact that literally thousands of Muslims living in Europe traveled to Syria to join ISIS is a clear message of what these “refugees” really and truly are and the danger they pose to the West.
22
America is lost and is a dying nation. But congrats to the Republicans, it only took you completely destroying and dividing a country but you control the House, Senate, White House, and the Supreme Court.
2
The United States is still a country under the rule of law. It is not a crime to be from somewhere else. It doesn't matter where a person comes from, if they beat their spouse, commit a hate crime against a gay person, or force a person to marry against their will, they are committing a crime and will most likely be prosecuted for their crime. Belief in Shariah law will never be a viable defense in a US court. So why fear people of different backgrounds who mostly just want to live their lives in peace, just like most natives do? I am a teacher of western classical music. I have dedicated my life to passing on the legacy of Mozart, Beethoven, Verdi, and a bunch of other dead white guys. However, if I have to choose between the legacy of western culture and the wellbeing of the world's people, I will choose the world's people, any day. Are people really more concerned with pictures in museums looking like themselves than bombed out, persecuted people, including children, be brought to safety? Shame!
5
It appears that both are threats. Fascistic nationalism and any religion that has a theocratic element are contrary to human freedom. Thomas Paine would prefer neither.
2
Hate sells. The Einstein's got out very early. People stay ignorant, they repeat the evils.
3
White Nationalism which was always present in America and elsewhere in Europe had gotten quite a muster under Trump's regime.
And we've seen it all under Trump's tutelage when he blamed the entire Muslim communities for the killing of one American by a lone Muslim guy who had the hatred for all the Americans.
But for Trump that was good enough to blame the entire Muslim communities, calling them ,''Radical Islamic Terrorists'' and trying to ban all the Muslims coming to America.
He even blamed the leftist members who were just trying to stop Trump's White Nationalists from staging a rally in downtown Charlottesville,in Virginia which was nothing but destructive.
And now due to Trump's win in the last election in America, all the White Nationalist parties are participating in all the local and national elections in Europe and capturing more number of seats than they ever did.
This begs the question,''Are we going to see more White Nationalism rising all over the Western world ?"
The answer is,yes.
And Trump is one of the reasons why the White Nationalist parties are destroying America and the entire west.
Because Trump encourages the White Nationalist to use extreme violence towards the other opposing party members like he did in Virginia recently.
He also defends them when they come under heavy criticism for their violent actions.
So if this is what a president of a western country does, then no wonder White Nationalists will rise more and destroy the entire West some day.
4
Do not believe great classical scholar and Conservative Party politician, Enoch Powell, could be called a white nationalist, but he was accurate in predicting in 1967 disastrous consequences of letting 50,000 unassimilated immigrants into GB yearly, and his forecast of a disastrous future for his country turned out to be accurate.P.C. existed even then since he was silenced, after his "Rivers of Blood "speech derived from the Aeneid.Believe that author who has had such a privileged life and education--Brown Univ, then Oxford-- should not be looking his down at others, condescending to them and labeling them as white nationalists simpply because they want to defend the patrimony.We are threatening Western civilization by inveighing against Sharia Law? Is that what author, who I thought was a woman since a friend of mine adopted a street ca whom she named Sacha, thinks of those of us who are only defending, to use a Conradian turn of phrase, our position in life and our system of values?Very eltitist.Can understand why family departed S.A. because there was an undercurrent of anti semitism among verkrampt Afrikaaners, but then Helen Suzman and others of the Jewish faith stayed the course, had the stamina to fight the good fight against separate development, apartheid!
6
It amazes me how so many "progressive intellectual liberals" are the exact opposite of what they claim. A better label is "regressive indoctrinated liberals".
Every time they spew their little talking points the regressive label becomes more accurate.
Let's take the white nationalists talking point as an example. You have "white", definition: someone who has white skin. Simple enough...
"Nationalists", definition: a citizen who believes that their countries laws and norms should be constructed in a way that puts said country first.
Please explain how that definition even comes close to being racist, bigoted, white supremacist or wrong in some other way. I won't hold my breath....
Everyone in this country has to get out of these ridiculous echo chambers that we have created and attempted to justify by calling each other everything under the sun when anyone even has a very small difference of an opinion. Our country will never be what it should if we don't or can't do that. It's not hard....live and let live and respect other people's views, especially when those views conflict with your own. If you think the government or society should or could silence and marginalize other people's opinions or views, no matter those views or opinions, please go live in a country that is "better" than ours. If you successfully silence different opinions or views then your right to those crucial rights for our country would be taken away soon thereafter.
17
Today people are immediately scorned by the left if an opinion or criticism or a different view does not wholly agree with their doctrine.
Calling someone a racist because they don't agree or are critical of something is a cop out.
4
I don't know whether to laugh or scoff. To conflate whites with white nationalists and throw in rightists is to increase the leverage of both white nationalists and rightists. Are you an agent provocateur? I don't know your standing on the melanin scale but as an Irish-American (yes, white Christian) the idea that white nationalists are much more than the Flat-Earth Society is risible. Europe, I can't speak for, but in the USA, and I speak as a JFK Democrat who voted for Reagan, so called "while power" is laughable and something we roll our eyes at in the neighborhood bar. You have to get around more.
16
Not quite sure how you could vote for JFK and then vote for the man who supported Margaret Thatcher in her Falklands fiasco. She was a non-inclusive leader. Reagan was not a mean person, but he sure made friends with a mean person. I remember when he sent helicopters over the UC Berkeley campus to intimidate the Free Speech movement, on behalf of the bigoted Oakland leader who sent Oakland swat teams to stand on the border between Berkeley and Oakland. Students were arrested and sent to Santa Rita; professors had to form convoys to bail out their students. I remember when Reagan closed down mental health institutions and community clinics. I remember when he was nothing more than a grade B movie actor who acted as a spokesman for Borax. He was the perfect tool for the GOP, as is Trump, another TV personality.
To be more specific, this is really 'white male nationalism.' The misogyny is a significant part of the phenomenon.
5
The misogyny of Muslim men - who need women to close themselves so as to prevent sin (as the men are too uncivilized to refrain from it on their own), is an infinitely greater misogyny than that of white/Western men.
3
We have host white majority populations absorbing more and more immigration. Of course there are predictable tensions and challenges as different cultures/worldviews interact and work together. While I agree there is an over-reaction to these changes from the far right, the analysis of this writer puts most of the onus for accommodation and adaptation however on the host population. It avoids the core question: how much should the immigrants themselves be expected to adapt to the host population? What if new immigrant groups openly want to self-segregate and do not really want to integrate? More balance in this analysis would be appreciated. Second and last point: governments in multicultural societies should do more to assist and guide both new immigrants and host populations to adapt. I live in Toronto Canada and I can assure you I am on the front lines of these questions.
13
Citizens have a right to expect that the native culture of their nation should be maintained, and not be sacrificed to new comers with no history or stake in the nation.
23
If not, it can be considered an invasion or Colonialism.
4
Ours are among the last gasps as the westtern world demographics change not only by population but also as a consequence in governance. Eurocentric rule which has dominated governance the last five centuries is being overtaken by Middle and Far Eastern cultures and is forcing the penduum to reverse.
The disruption immigration is causing in Europe is being reflected here with the inanity of our southern border wall. The jobs lost here are not due to "illegals" rather the US business owners who like their European counterparts seek greater profits in offshore manufacturing and robotics. The net effect is reflected in the growing wealth disparity which is erasing the middle class and coupled with a still glowing fire of racism is bringing the disorder we are now experiencing.
This problem has to do with the belief systems held by the disparate groups more than their humanity. Europe is for the most part like the US composed of Christians while it appears for the most part the immigrants, at least in Europe, adhere to the Muslim faith.
Adherents of both faiths are convinced their beliefs are true which unlike political belief leaves no room for compromise and certainly contributes to the murderous violence which plagues the European continent and has forever scarred our nation.
Were the roles reversed, with African or Middle Eastern ships bringing Europeans here in chains, the conversation would be the same.
I think we all know things must change.
1
Ian,
Yes, except only a few want change back to an empathetic society, the definition enshrined in the words on the base of Lady Liberty, in Mew York harbor:
"Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
MOTHER OF EXILES. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
2
This white nationalism is a subtler side effect of Reagan/Thatcherism, which exploited economic fears associated with globalization and deregulation-spurred "financial services" looting and employed dog whistle rhetoric to divide and distract.
With the pending dissolution of the UK via Brexit and Scottish independence and the devolution of US politics via Trumpism and the moral collapse of the main political parties, we are witnessing the final denouement of Reagan/Thatcherism, the death spirals if not the death throes of the house-of-cards fantasy societies they purported to save.
Mr Suransky suffers from the same tactic as most leftists: calling anyone who questions immigration as "white nationalists" and discredits any reasons for disagreeing with his opinion. The immigration "problem" could have been averted and can be stopped if the UN and world leaders solved the Syrian and other war torn countries which are religious as well as political. Most immigrants would rather be in their native country than immigrating to another and disrupting their lives.
Host country citizens are right to be concerned with huge increase in immigration. Resources throughout a country are strained to provide for immigrants that could be used for other societal needs, and the majority of immigrants have little skills or know the language and need to be trained and supported before they can be productive, if ever. Many immigrants do no assimilate but rather expect the host country to honor their culture and habits. The lives and culture of the indigenous citizens are strained in many ways; they are right to be concerned and hostile and want to preserve their way of life. Why not?
The obvious solutions is to resolve the political crisis and wars (easier said than done considering our political class) and to consider immigration to be temporary and people will return to their countries which they most likely prefer and to preserve their customs and way of life.
21
When you began discussing a ban on 'modest swimwear' I was with you. But then you said 'forced to take off her veil'. A veil, which I assume covers the face is not any kind of swimwear, modest or otherwise. A veil, like a mask, hides identity. If you've ever wondered about the scariness of Halloween, it's, precisely that, that people frequently walk around with their faces covered, hiding their identities. I propose we limit the wearing of identity hiding veils & masks to that one day a year. In other respects, you should be able to dress as you like.
5
If you have a driver's license, you cannot take a picture with your face half covered. You cannot go to the DMV for an ID and take a picture with your face half covered. You cannot apply for a Social Security Card and take a picture with your face half covered. If you want to walk around your neighborhood with a veil, fine. If you want to participate in the broader legal world around you, not fine. How many Americans walk around wearing masks? And, a veil is a mask which hides the identity of the wearer.
3
Nor can you walk into a bank or work in many jobs if wearing the niqab.
2
This article is attacking a straw man. I'm going to need a lot more evidence
that white nationalism really is on the rise, rather than citing short-term
reactions to scattered terrorism incidents, or a populous that voted for
anything but the status quo --all amplified by the internet. Certainly
pockets of white nationalists exist, but to claim a sea change is a little much.
12
So interesting that in the US "white nationalists" seem to forget what the white Europeans did to Native American populations back in the late 1490s. American History is complex and nuanced. All they seem to see is the black and white of it.
4
This article was pure comedy.
It plainly illustrates how panicked the left is about losing the identity politics battle to whites, who are finally waking up to the predicament they're in.
7 1/2 more years of Trump, followed by 8yrs of Pence.
It's going to be GLORIOUS.
13
This is not about political parties and elections. Open your eyes and look at what is being done by the Trump administration: build up of military and nuclear arsenal; dismantling of EPA and protective regulations; inadequate staffing of almost every federal agency and department leading to a failure of diplomacy and other crucial functions. Ptesidential rhetoric that is alienating allies and strengthening enemies; rallies with fascist symbols and chants; disasters that worsen because of neglect. In less than a year the real power of the federal government has been damaged by incompetence, malfeasance and corruption. An election that was flawed by undue foreign influence has become a threat to world peace. The celebration of Trump victory is over; time to look at what he's really about.
4
After Mueller connects the dots between Trump and Russian oligarchs via loans laundered through The Bank of Cyprus and Deutsche Bank, we will see the 250M dollars given to Trump from Russians. He has recently received a further gift/loan/property purchase in FL in the amount of 95M. This was flown in on a private jet, delivered personally to the Trump Organization. Trump is so compromised by an adversary, he is just a talking head. And, Tillerson, gutting the Dept. of State with unfilled positions? How many drilling rights does Tillerson have in Russia and the Balkans? Pruitt, the oil captive? Zinke, the mining interest captive? I can't prove it, but I suspect we are now living under a plutocracy.
It is time, way past time, to make America sane again, to make the world sane again. In a recent article there was a quote from a trump appointee that stated "decisions are not based on science in a democracy". This appointee would rather that decisions be based on populist sentiment stoked by fear, ignorance and hunger for power. The right wing of the Republican party shares a lot of similarities to right wing Islamist extremist factions. Each stoke their followers by misrepresentation, by creating "others" who will harm them, others who are less-than-human, who are nothing more than evil. The Republicans and the Islamist are cult-like in their offerings. Be one of us or be evil. There is no middle ground, they set up false dichotomies in order to consolidate their power. The leaders of these groups often don't personally feel this way, but realize to hold onto power they must stoke the fear. Both are despicable. We need a national deprogramming of cult-membership. The very same actions that are applied to free people from cults must be applied nation-wide. Right-wing leaders must be shown to be the frauds that they are. Alternative pathways and acceptance back into "normal" society must be developed. Real hope must be engendered by creating a society where opportunity exists for all, where equal treatment and dignity exists for all, where each person's humanity is nurtured. Self-determination is important, but so is a strong safety-net. Life must not be a zero sum game.
5
White nationalism is the west. It built the west. White people were the driving force of discovery and innovation in the west like it or not.
10
Incomplete history is false history.
3
Quite the opposite. Western self-loathing intellectuals of the Left have been trashing Western civilisation for a good 50 years. It is their raison d'etre. They hate capitalism, Christianity, the family structure, and liberal democracy itself, as they always try to shut down divergent opinion and rule through institutions that bypass the popular will, e.g. the Presidency, Supreme Court, EU Commission, etc. They view the people as Deplorable.
13
Perhaps they exhort society to live it's ideals rather than be satisfied with empty words and slogans.
3
I am always surprised to hear that Muslims integrate poorly into western society. I know many Muslims. They are physicians, engineers, accountants, reporters, executives, physicists and businessmen. I intermittently drive over a bridge on designed by a Muslim, and at times inspected by a Muslim.
Many of the Muslims that I know speak better English that many of the people I grew up with, in rural upstate New York. They may not approve of homosexuality if asked, but they work with homosexuals, Jews, atheists and Christians without difficulty.
Yes, I understand, refugees that just arrived from a war zone half a world away don’t arrive speaking English and necessarily full of liberal values. However, those that I have interacted with are learning and are quite willing to live within the standards of our society. (Ok, the women wear head scarves, but so did my mom driving the TR-4 back in the sixties.)
8
The muslims who immigrate to the Northeast United States are typically already well educated professionals, or they are students who have been accepted at MIT or Ivy League schools. Many already share liberal cultural assumptions or accept public acceptance of liberal values as a necessary trade off to economic and educational opportunity. They are also relatively small in number. As well educated, publically liberal people they integrate well into communities of other well educated, publically liberal people.
Go to Dearborn sometime. Or Paris. Or Malmo It is a much different story.
7
That's because barely 1% of America's population are Muslim, and they really are the so-called "moderate Muslims" that the left is blabbing about. For whatever reason, Muslims in America are by far the most tolerant and peaceful Muslims in the entire world. I have no idea why. There is a huge difference between the average Muslim that you're familiar with and the average Muslim in Europe, Africa, and Asia.
And the reason your mother wore a head scarf driving the TR-4 back in the sixties was because it was considered fashionable, same reason men wore hats. Not because their religion instructed them too, or because they were worried about a husband/brother/son beating them senseless for not dressing modestly.
3
essential nonsense. white nationalism in the US is marginalized, statistically. they are always outnumbered by counter-protestors, have zero influence politically, as much as the left would like it to be 1958 again. in europe it is, and has always been, a bigger problem. further, immigrants have no additional rights (and illegal immigrants have none). if law enforcement is stymied by full body garb, and that garb is mis-used to avoid responsibility for bad acts, then there should be a ban.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Freedom_Restoration_Act
6
The Centre, traditional right and the Left have ceded all of their ground on the immigration issue to the populist right because ANY call for reduced immigration, merit based immigration or restrictions on refugees from terror hot spots is loudly called RACIST and XENOPHOBIC. And yet... a huge % of the population in every part of the world Not just the West, opposes mass immigration, huge refugee inflows and supports merit based immigration if they support any immigration at all.
13
David Duke linked to this article in his Twitter feed and labeled the arguments delusional. Seems many commentators here stand with David Duke, although I'm sure many are very fine people.
26
Conservatives (especially far right) are defined by blind nationalism as well denial of the climate change. This makes sense if one deciphers their mindset and worldview. The issues of immigration and climate change being complex in nature, defies their ability to comprehend the numerous causes and effects involved in these issues. Both issues have causes that are clearly historical as well man-made, but denial is their coping strategy when faced with the reality. Apart from denial, they choose to oversimplify issues and conveniently shift the blame elsewhere. Making any form of sacrifice is an anathema for them, and hence instinctively abhor policies and programs calling for changes in lifestyles and assimilation of new norms aimed at the long-term survival of the Globe and the Planet.
9
The Great Replacement is real. It is simple arithmetic. No matter how many times you do the math, the result is the same. People are just facing facts. The way to avoid empowering the right is to accept the math, accept the reality of normal reasonable human reactions to too-rapid change, and restrict immigration accordingly.
12
The author is correct in stating that the Master Faith has posed no threat to civilization or the rule of law -- yet. Today's turn belongs to the other Big Truths posing as answers, Christianity and neoliberalism. Conservatives pose as protectors, but are soon shown to be after imposing their own truths on all society. Eventually, given sufficient numbers, such as in Birmingham (UK), Islam will also seek to impose its truth. There are already entire suburbs of Paris in which only men populate the shops and cafés, their women "properly" at home tending the chores.
Big Truths, whether religious, -- or in the form of academic theories that have jumped the "is" to "should" shark, and become loosened from their ceteris paribus moorings -- will always seek to impose. The real problem lies in the fact we humans are so accustomed to broad explanatory narratives and Truth that it can be unnerving to attempt to live without them, using best approximations based on current knowledge. Should readers so wish, I recommend reading up on skepticism. There is nothing quite so refreshing as the real world, now free of filters and fake taboos.
4
Although I appreciate all the differing views here in the comments, I fear it's too late.
Where have you all been in finding this balanced conversation that has been so needed this past year?
To change, we must all be on board this balance but take a stand immediately.
3
This article itself is part of the problem. It lists a parade of "horribles", but does not meaningfully ask why this is occurring. Nor, more importantly, does Polakow-Suransky engage with the fundamental issue, namely why liberal democracy has lost its broad allure. What needs to be discussed more is not what "white nationalists" do wrong but what we can do to provide a credible alternative. In any case, the biggest threat to liberal Western values is the exploding birthrate in non-liberal, non Western countries!
Why have the masses gone from looking outward with passion and pride at landing a man on the moon to self-absorbingly looking inward at a little screen that pretends the virtual is reality? Where have the elites gone wrong in recent decades? Why do they currently seem incapable of presenting a vision that inspires and attracts more people to a liberal vision?
It is not sufficient to simply blame the bad guys for being bad. Rather, we need to provide an alternative that deals with how people actually live their lives, not how we wish some day they will live their lives. It also does not help to lay all the problems confronting liberal democracy at the feet of white nationalism as, if it weren't for white nationalists, China, Saudi Arabia, and the Congo would be embracing liberal values. Nor does it help to lump all white nationalists together, as if Scottish independence proponents, Trump supporters, and those of Marine LePen have the same values and agendas.
11
I used to work with an elderly gentleman who would complain about the numerous children listed on the death of some of the members of our community of non-western origin. He was an only child, had one daughter who herself bore one child. He could not accept that his, or rather the women in his life's choice to forgo replacing themselves and maintaining their share of occupancy of the planet conferred no obligation in others to do the same.
All of life is a competition for occupation and consumption of resources to maximize reproduction. We have created biotechnology and a culture that has put western women in control of that process and they are choosing to remove us from the future. So be it.
3
Every society sees its birth rate decline with increases in wealth and education. Particularly when women become more educated and gain economic independence.
9
This article itself is part of the problem. It lists a parade of "horribles", but does not meaningfully ask why this is occurring. Nor, more importantly, does Polakow-Suransky engage with the fundamental issue, namely why liberal democracy has lost its broad allure. What needs to be discussed more is not what "white nationalists" do wrong but what we can do to provide a credible alternative. In any case, the biggest threat to liberal Western values is the exploding birthrate in non-liberal, non Western countries!
Why have the masses gone from looking outward with passion and pride at landing a man on the moon to self-absorbingly looking inward at a little screen that pretends the virtual is reality? Where have the elites gone wrong in recent decades? Why do they currently seem incapable of presenting a vision that inspires and attracts more people to a liberal vision?
It is not sufficient to simply blame the bad guys for being bad. Rather, we need to provide an alternative that deals with how people actually live their lives, not how we wish some day they will live their lives. It also does not help to lay all the problems confronting liberal democracy at the feet of white nationalism as, if it weren't for white nationalists, China, Saudi Arabia, and the Congo would be embracing liberal values. Nor does it help to lump all white nationalists together, as if Scottish independence proponents, Trump supporters, and those of Marine LePen have the same values and agendas.
3
I find it odd that everyone is entitled to protect and preserve their culture - except Europeans and Americans.
31
Societies must evolve and adapt or become extinct, or at least obsolete. American culture in particular, is so rich because we have been open to accepting so many from diverse cultures.
3
Yes, and on our lands and at our expense!
4
I find it odd that you've missed the point so completely.
The author does not understand the realities described by Samuel Huntington in his "The Coming Clash of Civilizations". When one considers that throughout history, including the 20th Century, wars have been fought over attempts by one group to occupy the territory of another people, it should come as no surprise that the effort to dissolve national borders in Europe and North America has met with resistance. The "white nationalists" of Europe and North America" are reacting just as others, e.g. indigenous people of South Africa, have in similar circumstances. What differs is the moral calculation of these events by writers such as Polakow-Suransky. Can one imagine Polakow-Suransky criticizing the original people of the Americas for failing to welcome Columbus and Cortes?
15
White Nationalists aren't indigenous to North America.
While i agree with the points made here, i disagree with the way it describes the "burkini" ban. The exemple mentioned about a woman with a simple veil being harassed by police is clearly wrong, as well as the onlookers reaction (and it is not actually what that ban called for), but the fact is that the "burkini /burqa" are not representative of Islam in general, but of a particular strand of a highly political islam promoted in some parts of the world (where it enjoys significant institutional power and very large amounts of money supporting it's expansion)
I actually did not support that law (i am French) as i felt it was counterproductive and inapplicable, but i still strongly oppose the idea that women have to hide themselves from society. I would suggest watching the movie "Iranian" by Mehran Tamadon, a secular Iranian film maker who invited four Mullahs in his house to discuss an "ideal" society. The views they express, namely that "any woman who shows herself in front of men without a veil is disrespecting said men and that she should only blame herself if she is raped as men can't control themselves", should be a stark reminder about the original ideology behind the burqa. Hence, it is not that absurd to think that wearing it is actually sending a political message. The fact that the racists of this world are also opposed to the burqa shouldn't be a reason to dismiss anyone opposed to the burqa as racist. We should not accept intolerance in the name of tolerance
28
What about the freedom to choose what one wears? Is that acceptable?
1
POLAKOW-SURANSKY’s one-dimensional condescension and sanctimony leaps off the page. Recent research in the US clearly shows that the virtually ALL of immigrant-fueled GDP increase goes to immigrants [97.5] while the other 2.5% enriches the wealthy. Large swaths reap few if any benefit while paying most of the costs.
It is now widely known that companies have even abused H-1B visas to lower salaries and crowd out American workers. Meanwhile, sanctimonious elitists have used legitimate concerns to lash anyone questioning UNFETTERED immigration or fears of terrorism as xenophobes and racists. They insulate their own families in gated communities and private schools while scorning the masses for complaining. Immigrants now have many benefits not available to the native poor or working classes. Blacks, in particular, have taken a hit. In many cities, they’ve simply been displaced. Entitled immigrant activists increasingly resort to violence and suppression of speech while making extraordinary demands for accommodation.
Over time, these cascading dynamics have poisoned the well in a country whose citizens interface cooperatively with immigrants in day to day life. But NO ONE appreciates legitimate concerns being tarred as racism. NO ONE appreciates demands that non-citizens have super-rights.
Elitists have created the very backlash they now decry but are so busy plucking pebbles out of the eyes of others that they can’t see their own planks.
45
DACA demands are an example as to why people are angry. The laws are changed to suit them. How convenient. And illegal.
15
What "recent research" are you quoting for such a ridiculous claim about the economic effects of immigrants?
"Immigrants now have many benefits not available to the native poor or working classes."
This is simply a lie.
I've spent my entire life in an ethnically and culturally homogeneous country (to put it into perspective for you: first time I ever saw a real-life black person, I was 17 years old. And I didn't spoke with a black person until I was 25. Not because I didn't want to, but because there were none). And yet it was a long and full life for me, and I honestly don't feel like I missed something by not sharing my living space with black people. There is not a single part of my life that could possibly be made better by the presence of black people. They've never done me any wrong, but I obviously don't need them in my life. And since I don't need them, I see no point letting them in. I don't open my door for uninvited guests.
The American perspective is not valid here. In the US, pretty much everybody is an immigrant on a stolen land, and as such, everybody has equal (equally weak) right to be there. Meanwhile, we over here in Europe, we are the original inhabitants - you know, the ones who own the country by the virtue of living there for fifteen hundred years. This is our ancestral homeland, WE decide who gets to move in and who doesn't. And just because our skin happens to be pale, it doesn't mean our right of native self-determination is any weaker than the right of red or black natives in their respective ancestral homelands.
All we want is to live our way, in our own land, and we don't have to justify our choices to you. Cease your neocolonialist meddling and leave us alone.
41
But, European wealth and its culture is based on the exploitation of non-European cultures. If a Catholic Church can be built in Asia, why can't a mosque be built in the Vatican? For centuries, European colonization, which has disrupted many global cultures and governments, is mostly the reason for people migrating into Europe today. And, let's be honest, there was always non-whites in Europe for centuries (the whole concept of being white and black isn't real, because we're all human). If low-birth rate, Europeans don't like their changing demographics, maybe their ancestors should've protested more when their monarchies and rich companies were financing extravagant voyages of packing millions of people like sardines at the bottom of ships and forcing people to work for free, while living luxuriously on plantations or large houses in Europe. To paraphrase what Malcom X famously said, Plymouth landed on us colored people. Oh Europe, you have a huge debt to the world. You're time for paying it back is now and forever more, for globalism isn't a modern concept.
7
"In the US, pretty much everybody is an immigrant on a stolen land, and as such, everybody has equal (equally weak) right to be there."
Pretty much that way in every country if you go back far enough. And all anyone wants is to preserve their culture. I see nothing wrong with that. It is unfortunate that the author does.
11
You're aware (right?) that the Vatican is the sovereign territory of the Catholic Church, within the city of Rome. There can be mosques in Rome, but the expectation that there should be a mosque in the Vatican itself is bizarre in the extreme. It's a demand for the Catholic Church to entire give up its religious identity and coherence.
5
Shocked by how right leaning/immigrant skeptic the comments are. This says to me the Dems really do have a problem as even many in their base are conflicted on this issue. I think many people are becoming single issue voters on this issue. Taxes, gun control, birth control coverage etc. All of these things are transitory and pale in comparison to who we are as a county and a people. It's the one battle in the culture war that really does matter.
18
If you read the comments you'll understand that this is not a left wing right wing issue, and that most commenters unhappy with this op-ed (most of the readers) are not right wing at all, at the most progressive edge of liberalism on all our issues.
21
I'm shocked, too. The content and tone of these comments is very unusual for the NY Times. Are the commenters here the usual ones? Maybe not. Elsewhere here a commenter wrote that David Duke had provided a link to this article for his supporters.
The United States today is less white, less Christian, less English-speaking, less patriotic, and less traditionalist than at virtually any point in our history. That's a trend reflected in almost every other major Western society. Rates of birth and marriage among domestic western populations are abysmal to the point that we're on the path to extinction. If White Nationalism is ascendant, it doesn't have much to show for it.
15
Please stop using the term "white nationalism". Nationalism (not white nationalism) elected President Trump and it knows no color. They elected him because they wanted to preserve the American culture - which also knows no color.
3
The American population is everything you said except less patriotic.
What needs to be discussed more is not what white nationalists do wrong but what we can do to provide a credible alternative.
In any case, the biggest threat to liberal Western values is the exploding birthrate in non-liberal, non Western countries!
Meanwhile, this article itself is part of the problem. It lists a parade of "horribles", but does not ask in a meaningful way why this is occurring. Nor, more importantly, does Polakow-Suransky engage with the fundamental issue, namely why liberal democracy has lost its broad allure.
Why have the liberal masses gone from looking outward with passion and pride at landing a man on the moon to self-absorbingly looking inward at a little screen that pretends the virtual is reality? Where have the liberal elites gone wrong in recent decades? Why do they currently seem incapable of presenting a vision that inspires and attracts more people rather than fewer?
It is not sufficient to simply blame the bad guys for being bad. Rather, we need to provide an alternative that deals with how people actually live their lives, not how we wish some day they will live their lives. It also does not help to lay all the problems confronting liberal democracy at the feet of white nationalism, as if it weren't for white nationalists, China, Saudi Arabia, and the Congo would be embracing liberal values. Nor does it help to lump all white nationalists together, as if Scottish nationalists and the supporters of Trump have the same values and agendas.
12
Thank goodness many of the readers recognize this exercise in conflation and have a much sharper view of immigration. What is apparent to people who value western culture is that many immigrants are coming from places that are hostile to western institutions. Even a generation or two later the hostility reemerges typically in Islamic radicalism that everyone must be subdued to Islam. Those beliefs are directly opposed to western values.
For anyone who does not think that western values can be destroyed it's worth recalling that Constantinople was once the center of the western world. I would venture to guess that most people in the west have no knowledge of that history.
31
Constantinople was never "the center of the western world." It was arguably the center of Christendom following the collapse of the Western (Rome based) empire, but the West is not reducible to Christendom, which was permanently severed by the Great Schism of 1054. What is normally thought of as "Western civilization" does not include the Orthodox East, but rather the Romanesque and Gothic and, especially, the Renaissance, which links the modern world with Greco-Roman antiquity. Through that Renaissance linkage with Greece the West can be seen as a trans-European project -- but it is only a project, not a reality, as a visit to Athens today confirms.
6
That's probably a good guess, since as Robert points out, Constantinople is not in the west.
The biggest threat to liberal Western values is the exploding birthrate in non-liberal, non Western countries!
This article itself is part of the problem. It lists a parade of "horribles", but it does not ask in any meaningful way why this is occurring. Nor, more importantly, does Polakow-Suransky engage with the fundamental issue, namely why liberal democracy has lost its broad allure.
Why have the liberal masses gone from looking outward with passion and pride at landing a man on the moon to looking self-absorbingly inward at a little screen that pretends the virtual is reality? Where have the liberal elites gone wrong in recent decades? Why do they currently seem incapable of presenting a vision that inspires and attracts more people rather than fewer?
It is not sufficient to simply blame the bad guys for being bad. Rather, we need to provide an alternative that deals with how people actually live their lives, not how we wish some day they will live their lives. It also does not help to lay all the problems confronting liberal democracy at the feet of white nationalism, as if it weren't for white nationalists, China, Saudi Arabia, and the Congo would be embracing "Western" values. Nor does it help to lump all white nationalists together, as if Scottish nationalists and the supporters of Trump have the same values and agendas.
What needs to be discussed more in these pages is not what white nationalists do wrong but what we can do to provide a credible alternative.
16
Sasha,
Did you attend the Hillary Clinton seminar on how to accuse your political enemies of what you yourself are doing with impunity such as the term "dog whistle" being applied to denigrate your opponents as if they were thoughtless Pavlovian robots while you yourself uphold the fine educational standards of Brown and Oxford, long ago compromised by a radical left wing hegemony? What dog whistles are you responding to, something like, "destroy and tear down the culture so that our new utopia can be born?" How many times can you use the phrase "white nationalist" in one propaganda diatribe? What label gives you the most bang for your "buck" white or nation?
37
I am frankly shocked by the lack of understanding of white supremacy expressed by many responses here. For one thing, white supremacy is a construct that has little to nothing to do with nationalistic pride or patriotism. It is about the way in which white people have historically and systematically dominated, oppressed and subjegated people of color. It is the attitudes, beliefs and usually unconscious behaviors that white people have that allows racism to continue.
White supremacy is part of the bigger picture of immigration, in that many people of color are fleeing horrific situations in countries that have historically been dominated, colonized, and harmed by Europeans and Americans. Their plight is our plight. We want goods, minerals, oil from African and Middle Eastern countries. We have thus contributed to creation of wars in these countries. We helped create the Taliban!! Then we act surprised frightened and outraged when people flee these war torn countries, needing somewhere to go. Its really shameful and appalling for Americans to be as uninformed and arrogant, not to mention downright cruel, to judge all immigrants as if they are terrorists, and /or imply that they are somehow to blame for their need to find new homes in other countries.
33
The colonial days have been over for at least 50 years. Open borders equals NO borders equals no country. I LIKE having a country. I LIKE being American and also like our beautiful countryside and wide open spaces. Inviting the entire third world here will destroy our country, our natural areas, our civil society and gives citizens of other countries no incentive to fix their own problems.
14
The residual negative impacts of colonialism last far more the 50 years and in many cases are permanently entrenched. Just ask native Americans, the Maori or, for a more recent example, the Vietnamese. The hatred of the conquered and subjugated “other” will always be with us.
1
Mr. Sasha Polakow-Suransky is a fellow of the Open Society Foundation, founded and funded by George Soros.
He also a a new book coming out to sell.
34
Doesn't mean he's wrong Jim. Your logic is a little weak.
Enough said. Really. Thank you for that info.
3
At the core of this piece is the same dumb assertion the left makes about nearly every issue: an anecdote about ignorant bigots shouting at a third-generation French woman in a burkini provides direct and irrefutable evidence of ascendant white nationalism and impending doom for the West. The very title of the piece captures the hysterics perfectly. The West is in peril because every person who opposes open borders and fears the incentives unwittingly created by unchecked refugee flows is a few steps away from a brown shirt. And connect the dots: Donald Trump is at least a sympathizer and perhaps a proponent of "white nationalism."
But the author is merely spouting a tired line of progressive hypocrisy: you're a benighted, illiberal thug if you don't blithely smile at the influx of large numbers of people whose culture/religion dogmatically oppresses women and gays, marginalizes and subjugates the "non-believer," and generally scorns Western values. Don't dare call a burkini "modest swimwear" and claim to be enlightened or a friend of a woman's right to self expression and control over her own body.
42
First off, if the woman wearing the burkini chose to wear it herself, then isn't that fully in line with a woman's right to self-expression and control over her own body? Or should she have been shamed in public for wearing what she chose to wear?
Next, our President has been praised repeatedly by leaders of the Klan and various racist groups - and started off his slide down the escalator during his first campaign speech, where he essentially attacked Mexicans. Later he went on to accuse an American judge of being unable to act fairly over a trial because he was "Mexican", but the judge is no more Mexican than Trump is German (or Swedish, as he lied in a book about himself).
As for dogmatically oppressing women and gays, we are already covered on that by many supposedly-Christian people with very firm ideas about who is the Head of the Household - and who constantly promote legislation to take away a woman's control over her own body.
11
Why are you fine with oppression of women when the oppressor has dark skin, but if the oppressor has light skin suddenly you're offended?
2
If we hear from a remote mountain tribe complaints that Western culture is destroying their culture with the introduction of Coca-Cola, blue jeans, and hip-hop, we recognize that it's a terrible thing and we empathize with the mountain people even if we don't do anything about it.
But if people in the West (i.e. white people) complain that Muslim culture is destroying their culture with the introduction of halal (an even more barbaric way of killing animals than practiced by the West), hijabs, specific praying times for Muslim employees, exempting Muslim employees from handling pork or alcohol, and no-go zones where even non-Muslim women are harassed by mobs of young men for not being "modest," it's a whole different reaction.
"You racists! Why don't you like foreign people coming in and changing your entire way of life?"
Why the double standard?
And while I certainly don't identify with White Nationalists, it's inarguable that Western Culture IS White Nationalism. As long as there has been Western Culture, it has been majority-white, so why are we supposed to fear White Nationalism?
46
RobertSF asks "As long as there has been Western Culture, it has been majority-white, so why are we supposed to fear White Nationalism?"
Well, here's a start after the very basic "Because it's profoundly un-American":
- It doesn't make people safer - European history last century, remember?
- It ignores the fact that a very large part of the rise of America as an economic power was paid with sweat and blood of enslaved Africans
- because "White" nationalism picks and chooses the definition - a friend of mine is of Italian descent but born here like his parents, but wasn't "white enough" for his next door neighbor to want to converse with him. So once you go chasing ethnic purity down the rathole, it never ends. Spain's part of Europe, but explain that to the racists.
- there was never a white-only America, so where will these people go to set up their new country? They can't use ours.
- because our country is stronger when we have more perspectives and attract new people. For one thing, we do better demographically than Europe in large part because of immigration, and we're the most innovative nation around precisely because we're not all Wonder Bread.
- and because enabling these people we allow people to foolishly believe some are better or worse because of accident of birth. Racism makes you stupid by cutting off consideration of individual people.
But it would be a lot of fun to do genetic testing on all these people who want a "white" nation.
1
Inform yourself. Halal (like kosher) butchering is NOT more barbaric than what is typically done in our "western" slaughterhouses, it's LESS barbaric because it seeks to minimize the suffering of the animals.
As for "western culture" being essentially equivalent to "white nationalism", you appear not to know the extent to which white Europeans slaughtered each other in constant wars over many centuries -- apparently unaware that they were supposed to feel mutual solidarity because of the relative lack of melanin in their epidermis!
It is an outright lie, these women are simply ‘choosing’ to be modest.
‘Modesty’ is imposed on them – socially, religiously, culturally and in many cases legally – and with violent consequences to any challenge to ‘modesty’ for women.
Let’s not act as if modesty in Islam is something determined by women or developed by women – since in most these countries they have very limited rights or representation.
This is beyond a corruption of truth.
53
To me, "THE WEST" is a reference to the United States west of the Rocky Mountains.
Sasha Polakow Suransky needs more precise language.
10
Quite a few people jumped to conclusion that Sasha is a female name. Preconceived ideas cloud judgement. So does Political Correctness. That applies to the author too. His presumption is that Muslims can coexist peacefully in a secular liberal democracy, and also with the "white nationalists". So wrong! He should read Brookings Institution scholar Shadi Hamid's book "Islamic Exceptionalism". Islam is incompatible with secular value of modernity. Islam's core ideology firmly plants the seed of conflict in Europe and now in North America. The problem is in irreconcilable Ideologies.
33
Sooner or later, we're going to get into a chicken or egg thing on this. You have yourself said massive immigration is what is causing the rise if what you call "White nationalism", and then you go on to say "white nationalism" is going to destroy the West. So, what, then, is the proximate cause? You expect people to not react to this massive influx of foreign people from cultures diametrically opposed to our own, and who are often demanding - yes demanding! - that we change our ways to accommodate them. Not a week ago, these so-called "dreamers" were protesting, in our country, "demanding", along with their parents who are also here illegally, that we change our laws to accommodate them. These people are citizens of foreign countries, and here they are making demands of us on our soil, insulting out president, and calling Americans a pack of racists and xenophobes.
I won't get into Muslims, because most of them here are a peaceful,enough bunch. But various Muslim writers, right here in the Times, have written screeds condemning Americans as "Islamophobes" and "racists" while also denouncing our congress, and calling the 60 million Americans who voted for Trump too ignorant to know their own good. Do you seriously believe there is not going to be widesoread resentment of that - even while so-called "progressives" in this country jump into bed with them to denounce their fellow Americans who they politically disagree with?
So again: what is destroying the West?
41
"These people" (the "dreamers") are as American in their language and acculturation as you or I. They are required by the terms of DACA to be free of criminal convictions -- among other conditions. Moreover, even their parents' culture was not "diametrically opposed" to our own -- they are mostly Christian (Catholic) and speak a Romance language (derived from Latin) that has many commonalities with English.
In any case, the only people who have an absolute "right" to be in North America are Native Americans. ALL the rest of us are immigrants and descendants of immigrants so get off your high horse.
1
I nominate this comment for NYT pick. Actually, should be pick of the month, IMO.
2
You are making all good and very relevant points. Thank you.
3
This is a glimmer of good news: Trump greatly disproves the " theory " of
White supremacy on a daily basis.
6
"White Nationalism??" What is that?
Objecting to American born, multi-millionaire, millennial snowflakes dishonoring our shared flag?
Dishonoring ALL Americans, regardless or race, creed or color, who have died so they can behave like the spoiled thugs they are?
Ok, if I object to that, I'm a "White Nationalist" (even tho' I'm 1/3rd Native American) and a racist, and a misogynist, and whatever . . .
I, also, just happened to be married to the same wonderful bride for 41 years and, as someone who has traveled the entire world, EXTRAORDINARILY proud, every time I land on this nation's soil to be THANKFUL I was born in this truly unique nation.
God Bless our Founders and their foresight.
29
Is there just one way to show respect, the way of the “rightists”? Is our national pride so weak that we have to display our respect in front of others as proof that we are proud of the country?
1
Reading these comments is horrifying. And seems un-Times-like. I am genuinely wondering if there are Russian state actors writing comments here.
Either that or we just don't, as a society, understand math.
This world has more than a billion Muslims, of whom maybe 100,000 are terrorists. In order to reach one percent, 10 million would need to be terrorists. We are at a percent of a percent. In other words, mathematically speaking, 0% of Muslims are terrorists.
Muslims are terrorists just as white males are school shooters, which is to say, they aren't.
Calling a random man a rapist is more accurate than calling a random Muslim a terrorist.
12
Your comment is ironic since the left is fine with treating all men as though they were potential rapists and wife beaters, but only if they are white, despite white men (in the present era) treating women, gays, and religious minorities better than other groups that are not judged by the same standard.
6
Only 100,000?! Really?! Whew, thought we were in trouble there for a moment.
And no, they aren't Russian actors.
They are the people the governments of the West have refused to listen to over the last 50 years.
8
@jane - it's a bit like saying "only" 1 in 9 women will get breast cancer - until you or someone you love is suddenly that ONE. The bodies piling up in Europe due to Islamist terrorism, the increasing numbers of women in Europe's cities' streets displaying the emblems of a medieval patriarchy trumpeting that the only good woman is a publicly invisible one and that female modesty is the source of all social order . . . none of this seems to bother the left.
6
Actually, it's lefty stuff like "diversity" and "multiculturalism" that's destroying the West.
So far as I know, no culture in history has ever survived internal fragmentation. For its first couple of centuries, America survived extensive immigration by assimilating immigrants into a relatively stable "American" culture. "Diversity" and "multiculturalism" are utter rejections of assimilation, and it's going to kill us just like it's killing Europe.
51
Henry, tell us when the many African immigrants of our first few centuries graciously assimilated into our American culture? According to Wikipedia, the Clotilde sailed the last batch of slaves into the United States in 1859. In large parts of the South they were the majority of the population.
So when are the "first couple of centuries" going to be over for these Americans? Intermarriage is finally legal. Redlining for mortgages is illegal.
They can vote (though NC among other states seems to resist that). They can run for office, own property, and all that, but it sure doesn't seem they've been assimilated.
By the way, ancient Rome had a pretty good run, in part because they didn't force the people they conquered to become copycat Romans. They had taxes to pay, laws to obey, but were allowed a lot of latitude otherwise, and encompassed the diverse peoples all around the entire Mediterranean.
Spain under the Moors was generally a safer place for Jews than Spain after the Christians took it back. Cordoba was a center of learning for centuries.
But seriously, no culture has any history without fragmentation. With greater global mobility nowadays, armies are no longer the largest populations traveling over borders. Europe isn't as good at assimilating as we are, but maybe they can learn.
3
Nonsense. The Roman Empire, the Ottoman Empire and China (when China was an empire, e.g., the Tang Dynasty) were all tolerant, multicultural empires.
Henry Miller, wrote
"... So far as I know, no culture in history has ever survived internal fragmentation. ..."
3
What if Europe doesn't WANT to "learn" to destroy itself? What if other people don't share your goals and desires, and just want to live SAFELY as part of a culture they understand? Do people who disagree with you have any rights at all?
6
No one would immigrate to the West if that were the case.
11
Ths piece is pure spin. White Nationalism is a cliche' that liberals are trying with some success to denigrate white Europeans and Americans. With the exception of Neo-Nazism and such extremist minority groups we whites have settled and developed most of the civilized world and should not have to worry about our government allowing our homes and heritage being overrun by cultures that have no intention in assimilation into our country's traditions and culture. White Nationalism is on the rise due to and invasive and more and more hostile immigrant, most of which seems to be displaced Muslims. There more to the story than this intentionally naive writer.
39
Could it be that most Americans don't want to live among people who treat women like cattle and who hit the to pray five times a day regardless of circumstances? Whose religion is based upon destroying the "West?" A Muslim surgeon who was conducting a biopsy on me due to suspicions of breast cancer left the OR in the middle of the procedure to pray, unbeknownst to me, and after it was over he told me not to worry--that the small tumor was benign. Two mastectomies later, I decided that never again would I let a Muslim doctor touch me.
33
I wish that the author, rather than using the phrase 'icons of liberalism', used the phrase 'icons of freedom'. Because that's what they are. As soon as conservatives hear the word liberalism the hate machine turns on. A liberal society is an open, live and let live society which we enjoyed here. That is turning around and I find people with very right wing views may shout freedom but that is not what their ideology and policies express.
4
Maybe if the Left and Neolliberals understood economic nationalism there would be no meaningful white nationalism as an effective force. This kind of low hanging fruit argument begs too many questions. It is very simplistic and fails to ask the more demanding questions.
10
All white countries demographics are rapidly changing. Not an accident. The people responsible must pay for it.
10
Cultural Marxists are destroying the west. Left wing propagandists like Sasha Polakow-Suransky are relying on a romanticized image of past, successful immigrant waves and liberal guilt to inspire a delusional passion in the hearts of the virtue signalling class. But as we see in Europe Muslims are colonists not immigrants. They do not plan to integrate into our great liberal society but rather to replace it. Islamic culture is intolerant, bigoted and violent. If we welcome this violent creed into our home it will never bend, never accept our liberal values, and seek to destroy us like it has destroyed every nation in which it has been planted.
43
Perfectly said. Cultural Marxists are destroying the West.
If they are on the march from Charlottesville to Dresden, then the problem is solved. They would be the next lemmings.
It seems as if a lot of the commentors here clicked over from FoxNews/ Breitbart...
8
That's the mistake Hillary Clinton, Angela Merkel, David Cameron and Ed Miliband and Tony Blair, and a host of other elitest liberal politicians made. They figured that ordinary people who think they have a right to their own communities are anomalies. They ignored the handwriting on the wall, and now the AfD is in the Bundstag, the FPO just took a small lead in tomorrow's Austrian legislative elections, and Denmark has succeeded in bringing down the number of asylum seekers and migrants by limiting benefits packages.
So - are you going to tell me that all the voters in Denmark, who see no reason to upend the demographics of their hugely successful little country because people like this author say so, are really Breitbart/FoxNews supporters?
You do realize that while the EU waggled its fingers publicly at Viktor Orban in Hungary, privately they now admit he was right, and their policies increasingly reflect his views, not this author's?
Why is Europe arbitrarily designated as the Third World's dumping ground, and why should its populations accept that?
9
No. There are simply many, many people who love the West enough to fight for it, unlike you.
3
This is an excellent op-ed piece by Sasha Polakow-Suransky which correctly identifies militant white-supremacism as the greatest threat to western democracies, including – or especially -- the United States.
America is the only western nation, unless one counts Hungary, with a white-supremacist head of state.
On an almost daily basis, President Donald Trump addresses and encourages the xenophobic, anti-black, anti-Semitic, anti-Muslim, anti-Hispanic, anti-gay bigots who -- with a little help from the Russians – put him in office.
Democrats and responsible Republicans must join together to rid our nation of this dangerous, unstable man who occupies our White House. The vile, neo-Nazis must be forced back beneath the rocks from which they crawled with Donald Trump’s inspiration.
7
Agree.
People talk about white nationalism. What about the Japanese, they consider themselves so superior no one who is not Japanese is seldom welcome to stay around.
23
Hmm. Maybe not "What about the Japanese". We're talking about Western Civilization issues, in the United States (well, speaking for myself). We've never been a place populated by exactly one national/ethnic group since the English and Spanish started pushing the original occupants around. We've never been a monoculture - no matter how hard some try to paint it that way.
1
Yet another apologist for a misogynistic, violent religion swinging a nazi cudgel against those who oppose its spread in our western, European societies. Does the author even ask herself who is killing and threatening Jews in France today? Who kills unbelievers and hates women and gays? Disgraceful and shameful that such extremist thought is given a voice in the NYT. But it does highlight why the European left, which tolerates and supports the intolerable, will be rejected if they don't come to the defense of European values and people (including moderate Muslims who fled to Europe many years ago to escape the radical extremism that is now arriving illegally into Europe with the complicity of "mainstream" parties). And by the way, Trump is totally different from Le Pen and other so-called "far right" parties (which are in fact usually socialist) in Europe. There is no connection at all.
39
This is an inevitable reaction by an ethnic group to mass immigration by other ethnic groups. This is in no way surprising or pathological. Pretending to be surprised by it and dehumanizing the victims is only propaganda and hatred. Why not have an article for once trying to actually understand the viewpoint of the victims, instead of articles spewing hatred?
29
This article (and many like it) seem to me to present a false dilemma: oppose immigration and you're a "White Nationalist." Really?
I mean...I suspect most NYT readers can get behind a denunciation of White Nationalism and neo-Nazism.
OK so far...but then we come to a statement like this, presented as self-evidently racist:
"if you have foreign blood and don’t behave appropriately, then you don’t get a passport."
It sounds to me (and I suspect many others) like reasonable policy. Does that make me some kind of apologist for Farage, Le Pen and Trump (or indeed the Dutch horrorshow who made the statement)? Strongly denied!
Seems to me we can (and must) accept the principle of controlled immigration and engage in a debate about what’s “appropriate.” Wearing the veil? OK by me (a Brit) but not the French. A language requirement? Seems very sensible–and a benefit for all parties.
The centre won’t win back the ground it’s lost until this debate can be legitimised–and had.
32
So, do we keep whining about it, or do we kill it?
The real and bigger worry must be Muslim supermists, who already account for over 51 Muslim countries where 7th century Sharia is the law and culture. If this is not reversed we may soon have Christian /Budhist/Hindu... countries governed by their religious laws and customs. As for as the immigrants to the West are concerned if they shun their countries for better lives they must integrate into the new culture and shun old traditions that have kept them primitive and poor. Integration into the wonderful Western culture and freedom is problem only for Muslim immigrants. You find Chinese/Indians/SriLankans in America/ Europe dressing, drinking and living like local people. And when people from the West, including media and journalists, visit or work in a Muslim country, they too obey their culture. Is alcohol or pork or non- Halhal slaughter available in any Muslim country? If u want to migrate to a new country u must adopt the local culture customs and may be even local religion to make integration smooth and welcome.
25
White Western Europe knows they have erred badly letting their Muslim populations get out of control. Now they are doing as always and waiting for someone else to solve their problem. The world would do well to remember Western Europe's history of and propensity for ethnic, cultural and racial violence in the extreme. It is almost certainly coming to the European Muslim population.
15
Democrats and liberals gleefully talk of the day when whites will be a minority, and POC voters will elect more Democrats, as they do today in California and New York.
This certainly sounds like the replacement of white people in the USA.
If all people who object to being made a minority in their country of birth are called white nationalists, then yes indeed, the number of white nationalists is growing worldwide.
35
The rise of the hard right in North America and across EU is because we have a regressive Left which with Muslims tells the absolute white majority they are "racist criminals". The Lefts players across MSM force this down our throats although we live in the most tolerant time ever in the West.
31
NYT's Carl Zimmer writes an updated report on the genes determining skin color. Ought be required reading for white nationalists everywhere, ie if they can actually read words and comprehend science.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/12/science/skin-color-race.html?
4
What rubbish. The West is being destroyed by globalist left-wing liberalism, not the other way around. The burgeoning nationalist movements may be our last chance to save what can still be saved. I look at my own country, one of the worst hit by these last decades of folly. Stagnant working-class wages and pensions, eroding quality in public services, ethnic tensions never before seen, but of course a tiny few are now richer than Croesus. How can anyone possibly expect us to go on like this?
Also, I can't help but notice the religion/ethnicity of this author. Frankly, I don't think NYT should publish these foolish, tone-deaf, clichéd opinion pieces in times of rising anti-semitism. It's just not helpful. I'm sure there are those who do care about what happens to the poorer, uncompetitive natives of the countries they have chosen to settle in. Please, let's hear their voices instead.
It all makes me so sad. Why can't we learn from the disasters of the last century? Why are we doomed to repeat history?
30
Sweden is the poster illustration for what happens when a government tries to suppress dialogue in service to a sociopolitical agenda. Gothenburg, as I understand, is now a totally segregated city. Jews are warned not to visit Malmo. Even having a discussion about immigration in Sweden was made impossible. Result: Sweden Democrats regularly polling at around 20%, with seats in the government.
They do expect you to go on like this. They do expect you to surrender your right to cultural primacy in the country your ancestors overwhelmingly shaped. They will push on until all the things that once gave you your sense of cultural belonging are exhibits in museums. I'm wondering how long it will be before Finland has to drop "Finlandia" as its national anthem because Jean Sibelius was a white Finnish European and the new arrivals "identify".
They want you diminished as they think they can destroy tribalism by ignoring it (except in newcomers, of course, whose cultures are pointed to as sources of "ethnic pride"-only white Europeans are chastised for exhibiting "ethnic pride"). Ironically, in pursuit of their goal of breaking down tribalism in the West by bringing in millions from other tribes, they do not care if they destroy the futures of the migrants' Third World countries by stealing their young families, future workers, business people and entrepreneurs, to do so. They never think about the impact on those countries of making it easier to get into Europe.
5
Jewish nationalism is the real threat to Israel.
Han nationalism is the real threat to China.
7
What countries are at the top of the list of happiest, have the most equality and highest quality of life? Year after year it is always Norway, Iceland, New Zealand, Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland and Finland.
What, may I ask, are the common denominators here?
There is something to be said about nations that are culturally homogeneous.
32
Sweden is losing that homogeneity rapidly, and if you read the post by Michael from Sweden, above. The Sweden you were thinking of is disappearing.
6
The best weapons against white nationalism in America and the rest of the west are: assimilation and good old fashioned Keynesian economics.
White nationalism festers in waters polluted by joblessness and low wages and a culture which hasn't put enough muscle into assimilating new Americans.
Assimilation was easier in earlier generations because we were a less fractured society with a better idea of what America is because we took civics courses, were drafted into the armed forces, and generally did more things together as Americans. Now we've got to work at it, and we really don't.
The second crucial thing is an economy which focuses much more on the "job creators" among the poor and middle classes, and reverses the slide in upward mobility which is the result of capital oriented GOP economic policies.
Make the new immigrants Americans and give them and the Americans who have been dispossessed by a global economy a chance to go up the ladder and they won't be driving trucks into crowds of people, they'll be running trucking and other businesses they'll pass onto their children and grandchildren.
To fight racist nationalism we have to redouble our commitment to American values at home and to the poor and middle class who are vulnerable to economic displacement leading to a racist politics. A double dose of America is the answer.
6
I was born shortly after a war that killed up to 65 million humans, which was preceded by another big war and many others that slaughtered millions, and the upward tick of population was not affected. At the time of my birth, the earth's population was 2 billion humans. It's now 7.5 billion and ticking upward, fast. We are told that it will double again in twenty or so years. Last time I looked, the planet is still the same size, and we have used up many of our resources and trashed lots of productive land, air and ocean with the residue of said usage.
That's what's fueling ALL of this. We're fighting over territory, air and food, and it's getting more primitive every day.
16
All these arguments against Muslims have been used against every immigrant group that ever came to the US - Catholics, Irish, Jews, Italians, Germans, Polish, Spanish, you name it. As disparate as these groups were, they nevertheless adopted and adapted to America. They didn't give up their cultural heritages, either. I just cannot understand the phobia that seems to grip people over diverse customs.
It's entirely likely that the incoming conservative Muslims will undergo an Americanization, falling away from the extreme social constraints that exist in the Middle East. When unburdened of the confines of their home culture, they'll move away from fundamentalist viewpoints and become more like us. I have never had a Muslim tell me that I should live like they do. The only people who seem to want to dictate morals to me are the right-wing religious groups that permeate the South, and they're not making much headway, despite all their efforts.
11
Bill McGrath, One of the large differences being is that our forefathers assimilated to us, not the other way around. Plus they did not go around murdering and maiming Americans (or Europeans) when they became dis-satisfied or foreign, religious operatives. Big difference.
6
Your naivete is touching, but bordering on willful ignorance.
I suggest you study 1400 years of Muslim history and Islam's interactions with Europe and Africa and Asia.
Earlier waves of immigrants were arriving from Europe, and entering a country that shamelessly demanded assimilation, and even then it still took several generations for assimilation to occur.
Our society no longer demands anything of immigrants, quite the contrary, we ask what we should do to make them more comfortable.
Immigration today is radically different than what took place 100 years ago, and trying to conflate the two is extremely disingenuous.
5
"Me", below, claims: "whites do NOT commit the majority of
car jackings, robberies, muggings, murders".
For 2015: https://ucr.fbi.gov/nibrs/2015/resource-pages/nibrs-2015_summary_final-1...
The majority of murder VICTIMS are black. and a plurality of killers. I expect whites are the majority of killers of other whites.
Homicides:
of whites: 2101; of blacks: 2254; of other/unknown: 152
by whites: 2104; by blacks: 2507; by other/unknown (rounded) 603
Whites are NOT the majority of robbers, and blacks are:
Robbery:
of whites: 45,812; of blacks: 26,861; of other/unk (rnd): 5000
by whites: 26,369 of blacks 64,636; by other/unknown (rounded) 9,850
Assaults: Majority white and white
against whites: 799,095, against blacks, 352,449, against other/unk (rnd): 58,000
by white: 678,428 by blacks 413,872; by other/unknown (rounded) 81,000
Motor vehicle theft: Majority white and white
against whites: 118,314; against blacks 35,644, other/unk: (rnd) 14,000
by whites: 45,791 by blacks 21,544; by other/unknown (rounded) 37,000
Kidnapping/abduction: Majority white and white
of whites, 11,883, of blacks 4,175; by other/unk (rounded) 850
by white: 10,188 by blacks 6,299; by other/unknown 1,175
"Me" also claims "Mass shootings are extremely rare" - depends on how you define "mass shooting" and "rare". We have a LOT of shootings and multiple victims are often hit.
3
Another trendy anti-white diatribe from another politically correct low performer.
33
"White nationalism" is a racist term used by anti-european-american bigots. European-Americans must reject totalitarian socialism, leftwingery. Bolshevism, Stalinism, Maoism, Islam, and other ideologies that seek to eradicate the most generous, tolerant people in human history.
25
Well said sir. Socialism has killed more people in a shorter span of time than any other ideology ever.
3
Polakow-Suranksy executes the neat rhetorical trick of conflating anti-Islamic sentiment with anti-Semitism. The truth is that Muslims in Europe hate Jews, persecuting them, beating them and killing them with alarming regularity.
When the chief rabbi of Barcelona announced that it was time to leave Spain for Israel, it wasn't because of white nationalists: it was a Moroccan Muslim who drove a stolen vehicle down Las Ramblas, killing people. When French rabbis tell Jews it's time to leave Israel, it's Muslims they're worried about. It is the Koran and the Hadith that instruct Muslims to chase and kill Jews on Judgment Day, asserting that even trees will cooperate by revealing Jews hidden behind them. I urge Mr. Polakow-Suransky to stroll through Europe's various "No-Go" zone in full Hasidic garb in order to investigate the situation himself. He won't do it.
Polakow-Suransky also laughably ignores the link between Islamic immigration and terrorism. Really, Sasha? Do you think it a coincidence that largely Muslim-free Poland and Hungary have had no Islamic terror attacks, whereas France and Belgium, which have a significant Muslim population, have suffered numerous attacks?
If Israel, with which Mr. Polakow-Suransky is intimately familiar, has a right to be a "Jewish State," then certainly other nations have a right to be "Christian states." Before you push "diversity" on us, Mr. P-W, push it on your own beloved Israel.
35
Nationalism, like religion, is a double-edged sword. In times of war, it is necessary to muster defense for the geographical boundaries of a country; however, nationalism can also be used by dictators and demagogues to take a country to war. The obvious example is Hitler's Germany, where the white nationalists were the "we" and the Jews were the "they." In today's America, the whites are the "we" and immigrants and people of color are the "they." In his every action, Trump plays to his white base at the expense of everyone else. To learn more about how demagogues use race and nationalism, see:
RevolutionOfReason.com
TheRogueRevolutionist.com
1
Gee, and I thought it was leftist Progressives who were sapping the West of its energy and dynamism with it's Nanny State narrative - silly me, I need to go to the Comrade Re-Education Camp!!
24
I was chagrined today to witness the Trump chief of staff, a retired four-star general, breezily telling reporters that all is well in the White House and that people ought not be concerned by his boss's behaviour. It is apparent now that Americans have elected a neo-Nazi no less hateful and dangerous to the world than Hitler. And I can only conclude that Republicans who control Congress, (except for a few brave souls)) must be in league with him or they would be lit up with rage by now. God help America. God help the world.
4
In short, this article blames the person raped for complaining too much about it.
35
The first thing I do when reading yet another article of this ilk (of which there a many in the NYT) is looking up possible connections of the author to the Council on Foreign Relations. Bull's eye! Ditto the Open Society Foundations (George Soros). The NWO advocates need open borders (Europe) to create societal chaos in order to further their globalist political (EU) goals. I have not yet read ONE article in the NYT that truthfully writes about what is happening in European countries with a lot of Muslim "asylum" seekers. I am using Muslim as in culture, not religion. Every article has a left wing, open borders, white vs. non white slant. This is not about religion, or "whiteness" but about people from totally incompatible cultures being forced on the INDIGENOUS! YES! peoples of Europe. These are not immigrants (there are exceptions of course) who want to live in a western country because the like the way of life there. They come as illegal immigrants, throw away IDs and passports (but are able to hang on to their cell phones) and falsely claim asylum. Their main motivation is going to the countries that have the highest monetary rewards (welfare), mainly Germany and Sweden. About 60/70% are men under 40. They were socialized in patriarchal, intolerant, misogynistic societies, hate Christians, Jews, Gays and are not compatible with western societies.
34
Love your using the term "indigenous" for white people in Europe. Never thought of it that way. Will use it at the next dinner party. Thanks!
If you want to understand what is happening in Europe, and also the US, read this book.
Stealth Invasion: Muslim Conquest Thru Immigration, Leo Hohmann.
Devout Muslims loudly proclaim that they are conducting a "Breeding War"
28
More than North Korea, who has a keen existential interest in not attacking the US. White nationalism, like 1920's, 30's, and 40's fascism, in Europe, will be the cause of WWIII. This is a direct result of extreme religion, complacency, and chronic poor education, particularly in rural, and inner city, areas, in the US. These are places where the Nazis take advantage of the struggles, and discomfort, of the inhabitants, and most "liberals" only go half way. More magical thinking about the solutions to tough problems.
1
Whites are not a nation. They are a racial group, and white supremacy is racism, not nationalism. Why can't the Times get their terminology straight, on such an important issue?
7
Why do nationalists have to be white? Are the Chinese nationalists? The Japanese? The Koreans? The Saudi's? How about Robert Mugabe? How many refugees do these countries admit? How many immigrants? Is any credible thinker saying that Chinese nationalism is destroying China? Perhaps Sasha is just your typical white racist blaming a certain group of people for all the world's ills.
30
The evidence that Chinese nationalism is destroying Tibetans and Uigurs is quite clear, but one does have to look with open eyes to see it.
Like other commentators here noted, this op-ed is so stupid it hurts. It pains me that the NYT would publish such garbage only because it approves the general idea behind it.
And the example of the third generation French woman who still wears a veil is chilling and shows she has failed to become French, regarding what reads in her passport. A troubling high percentage of Muslims don't assimilate. China kicked them out after 1000 years, once they saw that they failed to assimilate and demanded to carve their own state.
The west and traditional Muslim religion are incompatible. You left your Muslim country because you wanted to live in a western society antithetical to your own. If not, stop being such a hypocrite and simply move to one of the many safe Muslim countries in the world where wearing the veil is part of the general culture. This by the way, should also be the NYT view.
38
The title of this article itself excuses racist xenophobics, by using their preferred term for themselves: "nationalists". Don't fall for their terminology! White racists are willing to abandon the foundations of their country - not what a true patriot would do. American racists are willing to sell out their country to a foreign dictator bent on bringing down the U.S., but view their churchgoing, conservative fellow-veteran neighbors as an enemy - just because of the color of their skin. White racists in Germany burn their own cultural achievements, dumping their own music, art & literature into the fire. White racists in Australia shout "Australia for the Australians" without any trace of the irony that the native Aborigines must feel. Here in the American West, racist whites who rarely see a non-white person try to claim that "foreigners" are "taking over", and Native Americans have been told to "go back where you came from" - to which they yell back "Sure - I'll be at your house in the morning!" Racists are idiots - not patriots.
White supremacy and nothing else drives the times and others to insist on honorable platforms for the racism of the odious Charles Murray. It is Not Free speech to allow Murray To Advocate The inhumanity of blacks at PLaces FRee To Offer Or Deny Invitations To Speak -- or to insist we ignore that and discuss whatever other new idea boils up from such a fevered mind. As if Hitler should be allowed to talk about wild flowers while ignoring gas chambers. Perhaps he should-- but not at institutions that claim they promote higher learning. Sham nonsense can be shouted in the gutter where it belongs. When People At The times and michigan Say lets Invite Murray, they Mean Lets Insult Blacks And Misuse Their Tax Dollars While Honoring A Racist Charlatan.
"White Nationalist" is merely a label slapped on anyone who isn't part of the progressive In Crowd.
Don't support unlimited and government paid for abortion? You are a White Nationalist.
Don't believe there are more than two genders? You are a White Nationalist.
Don't think the Government should be in charge of your Health Care? You are a White Nationalist.
Don't believe American Universities have more rapes per capita than Islamic Third World Countries? You are a White Nationalist.
Etc.
Simply put, it's synonymous with "Other" to the Leftists.
18
By "white nationalists" you mean racists. You must be referring to the party that started the KKK, wrote the Jim Crow laws and established segregation throughout the South. That would be the democrat party.
5
Anti-immigration rhetoric and nativist policies have become the new normal in liberal democracies from Europe to the United States. Not surprisingly It is but reawakening of the thinly veiled color hatred Whites have for very many decades.
During the French defense against the Nazi blitz in 1940 knowing full well that the campaign was lost, French officers flipped opened the “sacrificial mission” playbook and ordered their African charges to oppose a German march near Lyon “without thought of retreat.”
Since victory was equally out of the question, that left death. Wehrmacht troops duly prepared by Nazi racial typecasting to see their foes as savages were all too ready to wipe out African troops they greatly outclassed.
"The White Man's Burden" In the later 20th century, in the context of decolonization and the Developing World, the phrase "the white man's burden" was emblematic of the "well-intentioned" aspects of Western colonialism and "Eurocentrism". The poem's imperialist interpretation also includes the milder, philanthropic colonialism of the missionaries:
The implication, of course, was that the Empire existed not for the benefit — economic or strategic or otherwise — of Britain, itself, but in order that primitive peoples, incapable of self-government, could, with British guidance, eventually become civilized (and Christianized)
26
The British turned out to be the most ignorant pompous colonialists in human history. What they called primitive, the language Sanskrit and the science of ayurveda, were in fact extremely sophisticated ancient systems. The British pooh paahed the ancient wisdom to the extent they made the natives feel ashamed of their heritage. Thankfully the ancient philosophies, literature, ayurveda have survived and revived. Now the British flock to yoga studios and eat their "curries" guilt free.
1
Hatred comes in ALL colors (and religions). Not in white alone.
Sunnis, Kurds, Shias, Hutsi, Tutsis, Rohingi, et al.
2
Perhaps this is valuable as a history lesson, but is far abstracted from today's situation. Drawing connections and parallels is misguided.
It is absolutely correct that the historical justification for imperialism was hypocritical, but this is not about imperialism. This is about determining the direction of communities we live in. This isn't about conquest and determining the lives of people in other lands which is clearly wrong. It is about determining how our tax dollars are spent, and the laws of the communities we live in.
1
All this presages a third world war. People in the main don't manage well in peace times--all our wars are centered in remote places from Europe and the US; they are unable to manage normal civility, but need an "evil other" to hate; a form of tribalism we have yet to lose.
I work in high-tech and have colleagues from Pakistan, Iran, Lebanon, and Nigeria, all educated and working for the same things most us want, a good job, house, education for their children, nice vacations twice a year.
And I would rather have them as neighbors than many of my Trump supporter neighbors, some educated, others not.
Having said that, all of my colleagues are fitting into American society and are not Islamic extremists.
Makes a difference.
7
"White nationalism" is a bigot's slander term used to brand and discredit anyone who asserts their human right to national sovereignty - to the right of common citizen majorities to self determination. A truly objective description of what has occurred in recent decades is that the mostly white, greedy, and contemptuous of the common person majority, leaders of the "west" have orchestrated a massive migration from the global south into liberal democracies in order to gain 100's of millions of slave-wage workers so they can steal trillions in unearned profits. This elite rigged mass invasion also simultaneously accomplishes the task of divide and conquering societies into culturally pluralistic warring patronage groups in which it can be credibly asserted that no consensus is possible. In other words there is no longer a coherent majority that can actually make a nation's allegedly democratic government do what is in the common interest. So as with America's infamous "Gang of 8" 'bipartisan' proposal on immigration (1. amnesty illegals 2. double legal immigration 3. and still not enforce immigration/employment laws) committees full of "patchwork quilt" representatives from each foreign ethnic patronage group then mysteriously end up making decisions that benefit the "diverse" 1% billionaires to the detriment of the majority ... of who ever happen to be the citizens.
22
"Rubbish"
You provide not one iota of evidence for your simplistic "conspiracy" conclusions
Massive conspiracies being engineered by mysterious groups of elites (Jews, Mormons, Bolsheviks, Communists, Illuminati) but known only to members of "special" groups such as these white nationalists (see Germany 1930s, Oswald Mosely, McCarthy, Enoch Powell, some Evangelical Christians) have always been a preferred method of the far right to get the masses riled up.
2
The truth is White-Nationalism is the ultimate Anti-Christian philosophy. So basically, the Alt-Right, White Nationalist will harm themselves more by elimination of their perceived Christian idenity only to become full breeders of hate, discrimination, and ultimately the loss of their own freedom and prosperity. They will have no one to blame but themselves. All they must do as look at the majority of Islamic countries which are poor, incestuous, and cultures to hate or fear all others.
4
Liberals- wouldn't this be great if it were true? Lets just pretend it is.
But lets not forget the people who fly planes into buildings and the same ones who would happily blow up every last one of you reading this..
26
And yet, even with high profile events like 9/11, the odds of an American being killed by foreign terrorists are about the same as being killed by a lawn mower. This is not to say we shouldn't go after terrorist groups. We most definitely should. It just goes to show how misinformed people are about the relative odds of various threats to their safety, especially when the feared people are of a different race, nationality or religion from themselves.
Keep the irrational fear going.... Apparently, you need it.
Jon, Lawnmowers don't fly into sky scrapers. Nor do they kill and maim people at a running marathon or a dance club or a Christmas party or .....
2
This is such a crock stirred by paranoia and the alt-left. While white nationalism surely exists, it is currently limited to a very small fraction of society. Islamophobia exists for one simple reason. There is little to no organized effort by Muslims to condemn Islamist terrorism and report suspicious Muslim praying next to them in the Mosques. Some neighborhoods in France are so overrun by Islamic terrorists, due to unchecked immigration policies, that the police are not allowed to patrol there because it is too dangerous. Of course, skinheads, the Klan and neo-Nazis must be condemned in the strongest possible terms, monitored and controlled if they ever become a threat. But, what about the alt-left Antifa, a group that actually commits violence and brutally attacks anyone they don't agree with on a regular basis? Who is condemning, monitoring and prosecuting them? The violence in Charlottesville was only made possible by allowing the alt-left to come in contact with and taunt the alt-right. I can only conclude that Sasha Polakow-Suransky ascribes to the Joseph McCarthy school of fear-mongering and false accusations that have no basis in reality.
31
Yes it’s a small fraction of society; and the president. And the vice president.
3
Fine fine people
1
Mr. Polakow-Suransky is a disciple and fellow of the Open Society Foundation, founded and funded by George Soros. And he also has a new book to sell.
12
This article's subtext is riddled with the standard white American bashing. It's easy to do from the comparable comfort and security of the nation they created. The sins of white Americans were and are many but in comparison America continues to be the world's greatest hope for sanity and balance. If you aren't happy living there you should move out. You won't be missed as it seems more than half the world is lining up to take your place.
19
Really? Our immigration backlog is 3.5 billion people? No wonder people come/stay without documentation - doing it the "right way" would be literally impossible for anybody who planned on living less than 500 years!
1
The rise of white nationalism is truly something we need to be aware of and watch closely, for it was the complacency of many in the early 30s that led to the rise of Nazism and Hitler in 1933, with the Jews and other groups made as scapegoats for the economic woes facing Germany...we see the same dangerous scapegoating of minorities and immigrants now as the cause of societal woes in countries such as are own.
4
If you think that the concerns of the West about Islam is hollow, just look at lower Manhattan and remember what happened on 9/11. It is not white nationalism that is destroying the West. The KKK and the Nazis are a small group, only made larger by the elitists who forget the concerns of the white working man. No, the big threat comes from the Muslim/South American immigrant invasion and their failure to assimilate. Unlike earlier immigrants, there is a lack of interest in assimilating. Poll after poll have shown that 60-79% of Muslims in this country want Shariah law imposed on America.
In Europe, those more educated and literate than Ms. Suransky remember the sad history of the last Islamic invasion of Europe, nor have they forgotten that the Middle East was Christian before being brutally cleansed by the Islamic horde of the 600's. That religious cleansing continues to this day.
If white Christians turned towards the KKK and Nazis, it is because they were ignored and left behind by Bill Clinton and the Democratic Party as trade policies were designed to ship US jobs to China and Mexico for the cheap labor desired by the biggest donors of the Democratic Party. They watch, their hopes for their children disappearing, as affirmative action and quotas are extended for the new Latino and Arab immigrants, while no one, save Donald Trump, even thinks to address the problems of the white poor, and particularly the rural poor.
24
Racism of course is stupid. But we should be aware that racism and sexism are intrinsic properties of conservative islamic believes. We should neither welcome racists that are part of nor racists that want to join our societies without acknowledging their values.
4
These refugees could go to Israel, which would welcome them with open arms. Or does Israel in fact have impenetrable border controls?
7
Israel NEEDS impenetrable border controls.
8
It must be said that voters abroad didn’t vote in for highest office their right wing candidates--- Geert Wilders, Le Pen and Nigel Farage in UK, and the rw German party. Most voters rejected them, even with all the immigrant problems.
By contrast, the USA, home of the Constitution, did vote in its rw Gop/Trump party into power. Extreme conservatives now dominate congress, the Court, and many states. And I don’t think the EU right wing candidates for office would claim there are ‘good people’ among neo Nazi protest marchers.
It’s in America that right wing regressive radicals now dominate our 3 branches of govt. They threatening our health care, press freedom, voting rights, civil rights and what middle class living standards we have.
The US can’t cope with its serious problems or live up to its democratic principles because we have a winner take all election system, and with candidates dependent on big money special interests to run for office. We hand over our elections to big corporations ---Wall St, big insurance, big oil, etc,-----to subsidize our candidates and direct political policy.
As the security and well being of average citizens gets worse, xenophobia and racism can be easily enflamed and exploited. Enter Trump, the expert in this.
Meanwhile more power and wealth get concentrated at the top, away from "we the people", who have little influence over lawmaking.
Continual contradiction to all our professed, founding ideals.
4
It is getting extremely tiresome reminding Americans with little idea of the coalition governing processes in these countries that voters there did NOT reject them. In fact, Wilders' party did splendidly, increasing its numbers of seats and coming in a very strong second. There were so many parties running candidates that Rutte is only now, eight months after the election, able to form a government of sorts. Le Pen pushed out all the establishment candidates in the first round and got 33% of the vote in the second. The DPP is propping up the Danish government. The FPO is likely to become, tomorrow, a deciding factor in the Austrian government, and Nigel Farage isn't running for anything - but singlehandedly, he helped get the BREXIT referendum on the books and then mobilized the LEAVE vote to a win. I'd say the voters in Britain very seriously did NOT reject him. And by the way, the turnout for that referendum was 72%.
Merkel just got the lowest percentage of the vote her party has gotten since 1949 - 13% of the vote went to the AfD, which is now in the Buddestag.
Many European governments work on coalitions.
Americans just don't grasp that in Europe you don't need to come in first to acquire power: you just have to get into the government. The German elections three weeks ago were a shock, Le Pen getting 33% was a shock. Last March, the centrist party that came in first in The Netherlands lost 10% of its former seats.
Americans need to get a handle on this.
5
You're right. Of course they have coalition govts that the US doesn't have. And the rw increased their share from past years.
But they still don't dominate their govts like our gop does. We're winner take all.
But rw parties don't threaten to destroy their health care systems and other supports for citizens like our Gop is acting on.
And they're not subsidized by huge corporate mega millions to run for office that completely tips the balance against the US citizen majority's influence on govt. They don't allow the privately paid campaign ads that swamp our elections.
Here, even with ACA, the public option was off the table. Obama had to sign a Gop h/c plan to get ACA. Our h/c is corporate directed, and we can't achieve what's normal for generations of EU citizens.
Hmm...the Dalai Lama must then also be destroying Tibet for not wanting millions of ethnic Chinese to settle in Tibet....
http://socialdemocracy21stcentury.blogspot.com/2017/10/the-dalai-lamas-r...
19
Ah, there you go. Self-determination and cultural preservation for Tibetans: good. Self-determination and cultural preservation for, say, Cornwall: bad.
5
The problem with articles such as this, and with the so-called "mainstream media" in general, is that they continuously over-inflate the "treat" of "white nationalism" and continuously characterize anyone to their left politically, including mainstream Republicans, as "far right" and/or "white supremacists." While neo-nazis and other white supremacists may be a problem, they are reacting to the radical left-wing, progressive agendas being pursued by socialists in Europe and Democrats in the U.S.
17
As usual the writer has the issue completely backwards:
Africa for Africans, Asia for Asians, White countries for everyone IS White Genocide.
That is the problem. That is the issue.
And do you recognize their right and interest to remain the clear majority, and have a society for themselves???
Because that is the issue, not 'minorities'
In the coming rapprochement, anti-Whites like this won't be regarded at all, except in contempt.
15
This ongoing discussion is muddled because the challenges of European immigration are different from those confronting the US. Most immigrants in Europe are Muslims from the Middle East and Africa. They have to deal with a much larger problem relating to profound cultural differences. In the US, most immigrants are from Mexico, who share the majority Christian faith and tend to share many cultural practices (they like to dance, they swim in swimsuits, they are pro-democracy, everyone loves a good burrito, etc.). The US does not have a large number of Muslim immigrants relative to the larger population. We should not conflate the challenges of the US and Europe. For Americans, white supremacy is less a matter of dealing with the tricky issue of problematic cultural differences and more a matter of resenting newcomers who are not adequately white.
3
Actually, white supremacy in the US is a matter of: 1. lack of jobs with livable wages for US citizens, And 2. a desire for safe CRIME FREE neighborhoods. Deal with those problems and white supremacists will disappear.
4
Huh???
It'd be one thing if immigrants were coming to a country and overwhelming their public spaces with nudity or sex or something, but beyond that, what does a culture's preferred swimwear have to do with anybody else at all? Or their dancing preferences? And I'm pretty sure everyone loves Shawarma and Harissa just as much as they do a Burrito (which is just about the least Mexican "Mexican" food, by the way - get you some real barbacoa or chicharron and you may understand).
The problem here is that European countries are small and have long held to a sort of political provincialism, whether openly expressed or not. European countries identify culture with nation far more Americans traditionally have; generally speaking, it has been well understood in the US that our cities will all be different from one another, and be within themselves explosions of difference; it is this that draws us to them. We understand too that our rural areas and our suburban areas are different from our cities but also different from those rural and suburban areas in other parts of the country. And we understand as well that the culture within one suburban home of Irish descent will be quite different from that of our Iranian or Chinese or Nigerian neighbors.
This has long been seen as a positive thing here. Only recently have the racists managed to convince others that "American" is a culture and not a nationality. This is, in my opinion, a very destructive perspective.
1
Sadly, it seems to me that religions poison everything. I have spoken to Jewish and Christian people, both family & friends, who have ranged in age from their twenties to their eighties and often gotten the same racist, negative feedback about all minorities, but especially Muslims. How can Jews, who suffered so grievously throughout history and especially in World War II, talk about Muslims as if they are inferior, or a threat to them, or their way of life? The politicians & agitators stoke these fires skillfully. They don't actually invoke religion as the reason for hate, they just nudge their flock along with dog whistles which are actually just appeals to regard the outsider as simply that - someone to be excluded from their club.
We are definitely in a scary place right now. Greece, Hungary & Poland are in the vanguard of a Western movement seeing just how far it can go and still purport to be democratic. Most Arab countries are dismissive of all non-Muslims, to the point of exclusion. So far liberal democracies are holding the line, but the USA may well be the straw that breaks the camel's back, due solely to its outsize influence; economically, militarily & culturally.
2
What to do about accelerating globalization? For example, global warming causing desertification that in turn drives people out of old homelands? I fear that it all can’t be slowed down enough to allay the fears of those who slip into anti-foreigner hysteria. My parents were foreigners arriving in the United States between the world wars of the last century. Thus, by dumb luck, they escaped the genocide anti-foreigner hysteria was prompting in Europe. Grateful for American opportunity, they contributed to the prosperity of their new home. In California, now, I see such contributions made by new-comers everyday. But how to counter the hysteria that all this rapid change triggers? So that we can see more clearly how to manage it?
2
"Breathless warnings...from alarmist writers..."
The author appears to have described their own article fairly well. In particular, warning of uprisings "from Charlottesville to Dresden" etc. is making MUCH more of the tiny minority of true racists that came together from across the nation in Charlottesville than is justified. Since that one fortunately small (but unfortunately high-notoriety) event, (a) the true racists have been properly doxxed and shamed, and (b) the few subsequent events were POORLY attended and shouted down by vastly bigger groups (e.g. Boston). New York Times, please stop tarring the USA as full of racists. Ask yourself how many people you know that are true racists. Probably none or next to none. Despite the continuous arm-waving, the USA remains a country of Love and Care.
16
Yes, of course. Mr. Trump and the 32% of Americans who support him no matter what he says or does are simply full of "Love and Care."
"Critical Thinking Please" wrote:
"... Despite the continuous arm-waving, the USA remains a country of Love and Care."
1
Robert appears to be a pretty narrow minded person who dislikes millions of Americans he has never met. How is that different from being a racist, Robert?
5
"Ask yourself how many people you know that are true racists."
After having lived in several places, currently Texas, I've asked myself this question several times. I see a culture that has changed since Wallace stood in schoolhouse doors, am action that is no longer as accepted as it was in the '50s. However, I also see a residuum, a subculture, derived from those earlier times. It mostly resides in the Republican Party, and especially the part thereof that faithfully supports Trump. I wonder who, and how many, would follow if Trump assigned nonwhites to the back of the bus. His embrace of Russia didn't bother many of the faithful.
1
So many "yeah, but..." responses! The author is belting out a clarion call, acknowledging real problems of immigration, but drawing attention to the biggie: white nationalism. Even having read the article, the "yeah, but-ers" prove the author's point. Frightening.
6
Trump’s failure to renounce attacks on Muslims and blacks isn’t the result of a fear of alienating his base. It’s because he and his base are of the same mind: they’re good with attacks on people who aren’t like them.
6
The left's failure to hear the president renounce attacks on Muslims and blacks is not the result of closed ears, rather of closed minds.
10
And you are good at attacks on people you don't even know based on who they voted for.
4
Surely you don't define the west with liberal democracy? Most cultures would have more self-respect than that. Nobody in China would ever define our civilization with its current mode of government.
Clearly the white nationalists define the west as blood and soil genespace, which, no matter how bigoted, fits a pattern across the world and throughout history. Most, if not all nations, are founded with the supremacy of a single tribe at its center. This is a far more advanced social arrangement than liberal democracy. And of course, keep in mind that liberal democracy is perhaps a century old at best. Certainly not representative of the west's whole history.
Or, if you do choose to define yourself as liberal democracy, then the west is not worthy of existence and should be destroyed in the form you know it.
4
Thanks, Ryan Wei! You show how the title of this piece -- "White Nationalism Is Destroying the West" -- needs correction to, I'd propose: "Tribalism Is Destroying the World"! Your appeal to "a pattern across the world and throughout history" misses the point: the world and history are changing. The Nazis resorted to industrial methods to destroy Jews, Gypsies, and others they found strange. Continuing along these lines, we'd destroy all of ourselves with even more "efficient" methods.
1
Not just democracies - take a closer look. It's almost universal right now with a few beacons left. No not you, Canada - you want the money.
1
The far-right, white, fundamentalist/evangelical/whatever, so-called Christians, here in the U.S. are the ones creating the most havoc, trying to force their religious ideologies into laws that affect all of us. Muslims aren't doing that!
3
In what time period was the west ever really that liberal?
2
This article seems to imply that there is a right to emigrate to The United States. It also seems to imply that if you have any hesitation about this being a right -- either philosophically or as a practical matter -- you are a white supremacist. How can any decent, smart person accept that reasoning?
28
Progressives worship multiculturalism, but by demanding open borders they are trying to homogenize humanity, with the result that all cultural differences will disappear. You can't have it both ways.
28
No, not homogenization! We humans have been mixing cultures for a long time. We're still, happily, quite diverse.
1
There are steps, small or large, still steps, between anti-immigrant positions, anti-Muslim positions and white nationalism. What, then, is the point of this poorly edited opinion piece? That anti-immigrant movements are a fertile recruiting ground for white nationalists? True, and hardly worth this much close reasoning. That Muslims are the stated, rejected, "Other", but that white nationalism threatens Western liberalism in general? We're past that point when discussing anti-Semitic advertising in Hungary. Asserted and accepted. Please go on.
The last three paragraphs probably should be the first three, and then some support for the assertions in those paragraphs mustered as the body of the piece. As it stands 'Western" variously means Europe, or Europe and America, and that is probably Europe and the United States of America. Canada dismissed as just more Europeans and Mexico omitted entirely.
Or, is "West" shorthand for "Western Democracy"? What about all the other democracies in the world that aren't in Europe or even North America? Brazil? South Africa? Japan? South Korea?
Since the writer takes their definition of "West" and "White Nationalism" seriously, perhaps they could state and defend their definition, on the way to broader points. Supporting "White nationalism is in many ways a mirror image of radical Islamism." would be a good start.
4
what's the point of nationalism - no matter what color it is?
2
Every single problem humanity faces is rooted in overpopulation. Religion just adds fuel to the fire.
12
I hate to admit this in public. I am probably one of the most liberal. empathetic people you could meet. And yet the sight of a hijab, or worse yet a burka, disturbes me. If we are welcoming Muslims into this country, couldn't they just get along with the program and wear modest western styles. Of course, if I had to move to a Muslim country, would I be quick to wear their styles -- not really. Perhaps it is the willing subjugation of women. I especially hate seeing men and boys wearing shorts and sports shirts while the woman in the family wears a full burka. Get real! I don't want to ban Muslims from our country. I do think we need lots of discussion. And, God forgive me, I do hope for some serious assimilation down the line. Brown skin doesn't bother me. But I am rather used to being an American in my own country. My ideas are oddities among my peers. In northern New England, I don't live in a very cosmopolitan area. This is my embarrassing quandary on the subject.
25
Your embarrassment may stem from the cognitive dissonance of self-identifying as liberal and empathetic, but failing to behave accordingly. As you probably know, the ideas you present here about Muslims are rather un-liberal. While you don't want to ban Muslims from "our" country (as if some of "us" are not Muslims), you "hate" seeing them acting out on their religious beliefs...which, by the way, are harmless to you. And you do all this in the name of the poor subjigated women who choose to wear the garb of a religion that is apparently not your own. There is only one person expressing hatred in this scenario, and I am sorry to say, it is you.
Because here in North America the Muslim women shrouded in burkas, surrounded by their western dressed, male relatives are so approachable to have or hold a conversation or strike up a friendship with. NOT really.
8
"White Nationalism Is Destroying the West"
And yet hundreds of thousand desert their paradises to come here to work - to go to school - to marry who they want - to be able to drive.
Funny thing how freedom of choice puts lie to so much drama.
20
"as a pretext to shut the doors to desperate refugees,"
How about just not constantly leaving the door wide open? Would Polakow-Suransky even entertain that idea as something other than xenophobic, racist and nationalistic?
The author sounds like he enjoys wielding a false dichotomy in order to trample out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored.
19
The NYT certainly has a knack for misleading headlines on the opinion pages. The author catalogs quite a bit of anti-immigrant activity in western Europe for sure. However, I got to the end of the article and still had not found the part describing how it is "Destroying the West".
20
Looking at a picture of a Burkini, it doesn't look much different than a surfer in Northern California in a full wetsuit.
1
I think the difference may be the religion of the body beneath the burkini. Just a guess.
3
It's not "white nationalism" that is destroying the liberalism-dominant West, it is the Liberals themselves, who have proven time and again that they their values are simply out of touch with the average citizen.
25
In 1978 in his "hotel particulier" @11 rue Cernuschi, JJ Susini, once most feared man in counterterrorist OAS which sought to keep Algeria in the French orbit, told me that he knew it was time to flee Algeria when, in June 1962, he began to see Muslim women wearing miniskirts. So we have gone from that act of liberation from the oppressiveness of Islam to the wearing of the burkini?What more stark, despressing symbols of the paternalistic customs of this great religion than the hiquab--bloody hot in summer I'll wager--the hijab or head scarf,and most absurd of all the burkini. Why go to the beach if u remain almost fully clothed?Kamel Daoud, journalist and "romancier" who one upped Camus's "l'Etranger " with his sequel:"Meursault:Contre Enquete,"has condemned wearing of abovementioned in strongest terms, perhaps at risk of life and limb. "Ecoutez:" The African woman, especially in Islamic countries is already subjugated by forces and customs over which she has no control:fgm and lack of birth control devices. Burquini is just 1 more egregious example of tyranny and coercion which she must endure.Know Mahgreb, especially Algeria and in particuler Algiers. Was acquainted with Bab el Oued "comme ma poche!" African woman seeks gender equality,freedom from male oppression. Author should join her sisters in their struggle to end the subjugation. Well written article, and hats off to the author for getting published, but she is sending, "a mon avis," the wrong message!
2
I don't want either multiculturalism or white supremacy. This is the dilemma.
What if Islamic migration really is a threat to women, Jews, and LGBT citizens?
37
The Supreme Court and Republicans are doing a very good job rolling back all the civil rights women and minorities gained in the past 50 years. I am more afraid of the damage being done by the courts and republicans than I am by any foreign threat.
1
Please cite instances of the SCOTUS and GOP rolling back "ALL the civil rights women and minorities gained in the past 50 years". Abortion and birth control have NOT been outlawed, btw, only issue is who pays.
8
Tribalism probably started when homo sepian first separated from apes. Other than males, females decided to be selective with whom they allowed to mate with. Female mammals, like elephants and lions, have probably been selective since they evolved through evolution into their separate species. Whenever a female was raped and became pregnant from another tribe's male, that baby became another tribe than his/her mother's tribe. Males of the mother's tribe always killed that new tribe member. Tribalism is ingrained in all living beings since the beginning of life. What is happening in this generation isn't anything more than what has happened millions of times in the past. Read Darwin and the history of the world since writing and communication first appeared. What can be done to cool down today's tribalism? Nothing, except maybe civil wars between tribes until one wipes out the other.
4
"Anti-Semitic and xenophobic movements did not disappear from Europe after the liberation of Auschwitz"
Sasha Polakow-Suransky would do well to remember that a good deal of violent anti-Semitic hatred and attacks against European Jews (and those in other parts of the world) today are perpetrated by Islamists, terrorists, or just the plain variety, as well as by Muslim immigrants to the West, first, second and third generations. It is not just "white supremacists" and the alt-right. Anti-Semitism is also alive and well among leftists circles, "progressives", "liberals" and Muslim immigrants to the West of all political persuasions.
26
Ah ok. Of course it is all in the head of xenophobic white people and the real threat is also just that - white nationalists - and not people from the realms of Islam.
Well Sir please embark on a journey to the Middle East and hand out bibles to Muslims in Medina, Mekka, Cairo, Dubai... Then come back and tell us what you experienced!
A fact is that there a millions of people from underdeveloped countries in the Muslim world who have in many cases a medieval mindset and only basic education - if at all.
Those people are a threat to the security and stability of any country who takes in millions like Germany did.
If you point that out you are not a nationalist or xenophobic but a realist...
32
Donald Trump has made me a better man by showing how despicable a man can be I now strive to be the opposite of his deplorable example. Goes to show you can learn something from everyone. And now we also know what a great president Obama was.
3
European and American terminology differ on the use of the term "refugee", and the fact that this author appears not to know this and yet is the Times' former International Opinion editor already at the age of 38 is quite telling.
The status "refugee" in U.S. immigration refers to a person who has arrived in this country as a refugee -- because they have been accepted in this country's 3rd country resettlement program, whereas people who arrive at our borders with the reasonable fear of persecution stated are asylum seekers and then, if accepted, asylees.
We very carefully vet those in the resettlement program, and fear that there are ISIS members lurking in their midst are always misplaced. Fears that there may be ISIS members in the stream of what we would call asylum seekers entering Europe and winding up at Calais would probably be more credible.
That's just the beginning of where this article starts falling down.
I think the main target of real white nationalism among is the mass of undocumented immigrants, most of whom are from Mexico, not the Middle East. The Muslim Ban, and all similar measures and propaganda, have very little basis in fact, but also aren't what white nationalists spend their time on, they spend it crowing for a wall.
Until we start getting opinion pieces which properly deal with the whole immigration picture, whether they be from the pro- or anti- side, all we're going to have is strife. We need better out of the very senior 38 year old.
6
Immigration is a blind spot among liberals. They cannot see, due to ideology, that they are importing reactionaries and that "multi-culturalism" would be the death of culture. To speak nothing of destroying attempts to control the population explosion.
32
Liberals seem to hate themselves so much they choose to self-annihilate.
Too much NPR and Kumbaya, we are all one indoctrination.
They must be very careful about what they're naively asking for.
They are being laughed at behind their altruistic backs.
20
Dark times, not seen since the middle ages, with religious persecutions and torture and the killing, in the name of a loving God. Now we are witnessing the nonsensical claim of superiority for having less melanin in our skin, and supposedly originating from Europe as a godsend favor to lesser human beings. This is absurd of course, as the white immigrants came to America to offer a different recipe for peace and solidarity and freedom for all...except for blacks (made slaves!), women and other minorities, a distinct abusive hypocrisy by the 'whites' that came to plunder and kill and steal other's land. Instead of celebrating the richness of our diversity, we have become bigots of the worst type. Solidarity and inclusion are being encouraged, so we can achieve a peaceful society; but 'evil' forces seem to be reborn, out of ignorance and arrogance. This we must fight against. Now!
2
I like to watch peoples heads explode when I explain to them who invented algebra ('I mean say the word to yourself! "algebra" you've surely heard enough Arabic words to see the similarity, right??') or the number '0' ('our zero through nine number system is called "Arabic numerals" for a reason!'), or any number of other scientific or engineering accomplishments.
During the Middles Ages, 'the west' *for a millenium* was dying in it's own filth, being ruled by constantly warring and mostly sociopathic and often brutal royal families where marriage and reproduction between cousins was seen as no big deal, and busy burning people at the stake for practicing witchcraft or threatening to execute scientists who dared for example to theorize that the Earth revolves around the Sun. (Does any of this sound eerily familiar?)
While all this was going on, The Muslim world, from the Indian border to the south of Spain, was in a golden age of art, science and discovery, well before the west's Renaissance period and the Enlightenment.
So called 'white nationalists' literally don't know what they don't know about the contributions of every culture on our planet, as well as the backward state of their own 'superior' white race for more than a thousand years after the fall of the Roman empire.
4
Actually zero was invented in India. Arabic numerals came via the Middle East hence the name. While you wax eloquent about Muslim contributions you do realize that occurred during a period of enlightenment in the Middle East that later got shut down by Islamists, right?
21
Yes because Muslim majority countries have contributed so much to modern sciences and the advancements of humanity.
6
White nationalism created the "West" so it is unlikely that it will destroy it. Before whites arrived in the Americas the continent and its native population was extremely backward compared to Europe. Whose fault was then, before there were no whites to blame? (It goes the same for the standard of living and the level of civilization in Africa before any whites stepped in to colonize and civilize. Historically, only Europeans and East Asians created superior civilizations.) So it will be the non-westerners from uncivilized countries, especially those who won't adapt, who are going to destroy the West, that is if the West will be stupid to allow it.
16
There were also superior civilizations in Mesopotamia, a few thousand years ago, before it became Muslim, and when the climate was more temperate than it is today.
4
The arrogant urban elite is destroying the west.
Once there was a promise, that every generation shall exceed their previous generation by livability. What has become of this promise ?
There is not a single policy, no single government, that has dismissed this one big promise, but after 30 years this is not just a hunch anymore, we have been jilted as just a basket of deplorables. But we are not giving in without a fight.
Maybe i don't like the right wing supremacist, i may even hate them. But to let the urban intellectuals turn themself into some kind of moral aristocracy and let me become some dispensable peon, just because i was born in the wrong spot in my own country, this is to much to take. I don't know what else to that than to rebell with stupid rage, i will not wait until some of us have become irreversibly the Morlocks in a brave new world.
12
Few learnings from this "whataboutery" article-
- 86 people died in Nice but "what about Burkini ban"?
- Most of the attackers are from one community but what about Xenophobia?
- The so-called Migrants don't have political influence yet or seizing power, so don't fight back now and wait until the takeover is complete.
- Islamic terrorism is a problem but what about white nationalism? The writer claims that nationalists are more dangerous than a terrorist?
These times are tricky for the West. They suffered badly during the first invasion by the middle eastern empires between 7th-12 century. I believe its just a repetition of history with the second wave of invasion. If saving your country is a crime, we all must be proud of doing that.
20
In Miami some college women wear headscarves proclaiming their religion along with plunging necklines, skintight designer-jeans and peeptoe stilettos. Head-to-toe loudly aggressive.
3
The fantasy that once upon a happy time the West belongd to one culture, spoke one language, worshipped one Gawd, shared one blood, is a large part of the problem here.
Gee whillikers, folks, learn some basic history. You're trumpeting for something that never existed; the only reason those ancient Greek statues are white is because the paint fell off.
2
A most important article, a reminder of human folly, intent in separating artificially what was always meant to be united, human beings trying to be tolerant, if not solidary, of each other's quirks, in the interest of making our by- force short life on Earth as pleasant as possible...instead of a climate of fear, hate and division intent in having 'white supremacists' claim an undeserved right to exploit 'the others', a shameful and unjust proposition (so blatantly advanced by racist Trump, who must be ousted before he secures his nasty grip on us all, a real threat only if we remain complacent or complicit).
1
There are forces at work behind islamophobia, white supremacy, religious intolerance which I am not sure any government or society can effectively manage- that is too many people on planet earth and more of them fleeing their homeland than ever before.
2
I very much appreciate the comparison between White nationalists and Islamic extremists. Even persons in those two groups who do not participate in overt violence believe that the objects of their animus are fundamentally different than themselves in their very humanity. It's a very old song that's been playing for centuries. Tom Lehrer parodied it pretty well when he sang "Oh the Protestants hate the Catholics and the Catholics hate the Protestants and the Muslims hate the Hindus and everyone hates the Jews"
3
White Supremacism and Xenophobia of Islam Are Both Necessary
Too much debate and arguments about how bad these prejudice are to our society, but to my opinion, they are both necessary.
Why bother silence these, when they can never be eradicated? Instead, we show the world how destructive these ideology can be, people will learn.
In a this world, it is natural to hate; it is also ignorant to hate. It is natural to be patriotic; it is also ignorant to be patriotic.
Maybe everyone just want to roll back to the good time when people just live simpler and easier lives, without conflict, without technology, without history.
Not everyone who opposes mass immigration from the Third World or an expansion of Islamism is a white nationalist. Some are merely defending what they have and know in the same way people have since the beginning of time.
17
While it may be convenient to blame “savvy politicians” for inciting white nationalists, let’s turn our attention to a much more proximate cause - identity politics.
Good luck putting that genie back in the bottle.
10
There is such a disconnect between the anti-immigration people and the reality. Immigration reform needs to be explained and passed that injcludes a path to citizenship. My experience with new citizens is that they have better understanding of what this country is all about than the right wing crazies bleating about being replaced, etc. New citizens have had to learn some history about America; the right has seen to it that civics education is now missing from most schools, along with history and geography. It is mortifying to listen to so-called educated young adults in street interviews laugh and admit they have no idea or wrong ideas about where North Korea is, or many other places in the world where their cohort is fighting and being killed supposedly to protect the rights so many "real" Americans have no sense about.
White, American, ignorant as nuclear war threatens because of our white, American ignorant president and his bluster. Terrifying.
2
So you hate white people. Thanks. Fine with me, but you are in fact as bigoted as the people you insult.
11
"Immigration reform needs to be explained and passed that injcludes a path to citizenship."
Immigrants today have a path to citizenship. Daily people are made US citizens.
2
White nationalism is destroying the PLANET. As always, but at a much faster pace. Wake up, people. It's our lives, and our children's.
3
You must be joking. At the foundation of any civilized society, education is fundamental. And in Western Society, the institution, formerly known as education, has clearly lost its way.
Unlike in the decades following WWII, when there were many responsible male role models, who continued service to our then great Nation as teachers, the flaming liberal, kumbayah, and let's get in touch with our feelings, the NEA has been floating on a Sea of Estrogen.
Restore the balance in our classrooms and maybe, just maybe our boys will grow up to be responsible young men.
And exclusive of perpetual work of left-wing publications what is commonly known as MSM to gender-bend every Western institution, it takes a man to teach a boy how to be a man.
8
Truly an echo chamber: exactly where did identity politics come from...the right? Stop kidding yourself. Turn about is fair play.
8
It's interesting that the far right in Europe is successful in appealing to LGBT, Jewish, and former Communist party voters. There are cultural and economic reason for people to oppose immigration/emigration that do not fall into the fascist category of horrors. Calling everyone opposed to modern EU-style Liberalism a fellow traveler of white nationalism is a losing strategy a la Clinton’s “basket of deplorables”. The grand liberal view of the multiculturalism/ no borders/ cheap labor paradigm is leaving people understandably cold and it’s not surprising voters want something else. Modern politicians seem to have forgotten that votes are earned and when you ignore the will of the people, voters will not dutifully keep you in power.
12
It's heartening to see such a strong rejection here. These commenters are not likely the type to be persuaded by Trump's jingoism, yet nor would they be seduced by the propaganda within this article. NYT should have made it clear that Sasha is a Fellow of George Soros' Open Society Foundations. This entire piece is blatant Soros propaganda, and no there is nothing anti-semitic within that criticism. The Soros ideology appears noble at first but it's actually a fundamentalist dogma of open borders above all else regardless of any costs. If a Soros ideologue is forced to address any of the many problems with uncontrolled immigration, he will immediately pivot away from confronting the problems and spin the topic around to instead talk about xenophobia/racism. Just look at the opening here. Sasha only invoked the horror of the violent mowing down of 86 people celebrating Bastille Day in Nice as a pivot point to talking about the burkini controversy. Any serious discussion of this topic would at least have the decency to consider the legitimate concerns French citizens would have after this incident. To not allow for such legitimate concerns to be aired openly actually creates the groundwork for real xenophobia to emerge. The policy of open borders in Europe has nearly brought the EU to its end. The policy of open borders has created problems that have led to the rise of the far-right. Ironically Soros is actually in large part responsible for the re-emergence of the far-right.
15
A foolish essay on many counts, not least of which is the sheer disproportion between a tiny number of fringe "rightists" and the millions of Muslims now seeking to enter western countries. One mark of its foolishness is the conflation of all those who call for caution and deliberate speed with neo-Nazis, white supremacists and all manner of white nationalisms.
Polakow-Suransky blithely passes over issues of clashing cultures by raising the straw man of "Islamic conquest." But he has nothing whatsoever to say about the likely long term effects of many hundreds of thousands of immigrants acculturated in non-liberal traditions on those liberal societies now urged to accept them en masse and immediately. This is sloppy thinking all around.
11
Look at these happenings as a wake-up call - the less nationalistic, xenophobic peoples of the West should not forget that two World Wars were fought to combat the problem.
The New Bigots should be put back in their places - at least the Trump presidency has brought them out of the closet.
2
I feel that cold hearted, closed minded, religious conservatives are the greatest danger to our society. They try to impose their out of touch values on the rest of us.
4
Islamists are already exerting power in Europe just not through the ballot box. Is it for fear of white nationalists that there are armed soldiers outside Notre Dame? That rock concert goers undergo security screening?
And what about ideology? Do white nationalists think gays should be thrown off roofs? That men can have four wives? That apostates should face the death penalty?
Does this sound alarmist? Look at what's happening in Indonesia. Pakistan. Parts of Malaysia. Think it cannot happen in Europe?
13
Thank you for an excellent, informative article that proves my point,
Ms. Polakow-Suransky.
The International Mafia Top 1% Global Financial Elite Robber Baron/Radical religion Good Old Boys Cabal are planning to take over governments around the world, destroy regulation and privatize every government agency to line their pockets and make them "kings" and the rest of us peons.
The Con Don is their talking head in The United States of America, Putin in Russia, Netanyahu in Israel, Erogan in Turkey, Assad in Syria, Marcon in France, Duerte in the Phillippines, Maduro in Brazil and whoever they think will replace Teresa May in the UK and Angela Merkel in Germany along with the strong men they are trying to install around the world.
WE THE AVERAGE PEOPLE OF THE WORLD are the only ones who will stop them and NOW is the time - before they can start WW3 and spread the worldwide chaos they crave and are trying to create with all these supposed "terrorist attacks" and general population uprisings. They are engineering them all. Just like Hitler and Stalin did.
4
Nowhere do we mention the economic forces that are behind these changes.
7
In America, is it not time for Hollywood to re-make 'To Kill A Mocking Bird', the 1950s movie that pulled at heart strings as a widowed southern lawyer opened his young children's eyes to the evils of racism and the untold suffering it causes the disadvantaged.
I saw and experienced the evils of racism while living in Detroit for over 30 years.
I'd love to tell you about my family's experiences with it.
But be careful though, it might not be the tale you're expecting.
1
White nationalism is a threat to our society is a no brainer. Any extreme group that has placed itself within reach of controlling the majority in a nation is a threat. But this group is not in control nor are the buffoons in the WH and Congress in control, we still have the upper hand the power lies with us. We have allowed them to display their hate via social media and talk shows. We won't stop them at every turn.
There is one fact that we must face. Climate change will bring a mass migration from countries that cannot feed their people to countries that have employment and a future during this period of human history. The nation capable of preparing for this migration is the nation that will lead. We must be that nation because our future generations will depend on being able to find employment and bring up their families. This threat from extreme groups should be met head on before we can build our nation to withstand the consequences of climate change. Luckily, we are ahead of the game, most of us know how to live with a diverse group of people.
1
How can we seriously consider every grievance from a subgroup within the society, but refuse to deal with the grievances of the majority? Because if the majority starts demanding the same identity politics rights, that's evil and racist. Black Lives Matter = Good, White Lives Matter = Racist. The author needs to ask how do we stop the majority from coming to the rational conclusion that they deserve the same rights as minority groups. The old anecdotal racism argument contained with this article are losing ground.
11
The only question we need to ask and answer is how much of a nation's existing culture we are willing to bend for new arrivals with different customs.
Frankly, if you bring the attitudes, mores, customs etc. that shaped the nation you're leaving behind for that "better life" with you, I'd have to question the practical wisdom of bending very far without allowing the native culture to challenge yours.
The gifts of Reformation/Enlightenment should not be so casually dashed upon the altar of modern hyper-leftism/postmodernism. Call me a racist or whatever buzzwords you want, but certain cultural ideas (gay people are humans, women don't need to be modest to avoid assault, killing over honor is outmoded, throwing acid on people is beyond the pale, and so forth) in the West are just better--full stop--and we should not delude ourselves with relativistic equivocating.
I don't care where you come from, but I most certainly DO care what you believe in. Yes, we should work to educate and marginalize crazies like Richard Spencer and co. here at home but I think one need only look to Germany, France, the UK, Sweden etc. to see the dangers of pretending medieval cultural values are equally-valid.
8
Then practical criticism is considered offensive and racist.
Since when is criticism equated to hate.
If I don't agree with you, it is immediately 'hate'? This has to stop. It is a cop-out.
5
Mr. Trump's supporters are white nationalists at best. And Trump himself is willing to say or do anything that panders to this base. Everything that the president does and says--every wink and insinuation--can be followed back to the same source, namely, racial or gender resentment, and the president's own vile invective that panders to it.
The driving motivation of this mob is to preserve white male privilege--and to do so at any cost. No other word than mob will do for this group, given its predisposition to ignorance, conspiracy theories, false news, mindless destruction and blowing things up.
Trump and his mob have already shown us what they are willing to do. So long as it helps their cause, they are willing to, for instance, muzzle the free press; destroy the independent judiciary; deny free speech to minorities; permit and even support foreign interference in our elections; and generally trash the Constitution--all under false and misleading claims of freedom, free speech, patriotism, the flag, cultural preservation, etc.
The numbers and facts show us where things stand. Most Trump voters were relatively well off. They were principally motivated by racial resentment. Two thirds of terrorist acts on American soil since 9/11 were perpetrated by American neo-Nazis and white supremacists, who killed about as many Americans as did the famous Islamic-oriented terrorists. Immigrants illegal or otherwise commit far less crime on a per capita basis than do citizens.
3
White nationalism *is* a core Western value, each white ethnicity in its corresponding country. The racial
diversity push only just started a couple decades ago and the demographic makeup of the countries we live in today would have been rejected completely by the vast majority of westerners more than 30 years ago.
A lot of people try to rewrite history and say racial diversity is "who we are". They are wrong, it's not who we are and it has no connection to fundamental Western values.
12
Rather than theorizing and speculating let us look at the facts as they exist throughout the world.
Fact: There is no country with Western style Democratic freedom where the population is majority Muslim.
Fact: Among the immigrants to the West, Asians with Eastern traditions are readily accepted while Muslims are not.
Fact: Compare the ethnically and historically identical populations after they were divided in 1947 as Muslim Pakistan and Secular India. Islamic Pakistan is the hotbed of terrorist activities with no rights and freedoms for minorities.
Fact: A survey of immigrants in UK about their education and income showed a marked difference in the South Asian populations - with Muslims at the bottom of the scale while all other groups at the top.
11
There's something precious about anxious Westerners' collective reaction to being asked to share a little piece of their paradise, such as it is. Centuries of colonialism and the corresponding disruption of societies across the globe, yet now the currents are reversed and so the sky must also be falling.
Give those much-maligned "coastal elites" this much: they've had considerable success with actually embracing the melting pot. Their rewards have been vibrant economies, rich culture, and remarkable improvements in their treatment of a fragile biosphere. This is nothing new, as coastal cities have always been far more welcoming to the stranger.
Yet in the "heartland," distinguished by its lack of heart and where white nationalism is at a fever pitch, economic malaise, avoidable illness, and environmental degradation continue apace. There we find whites unable or unwilling to adapt to contemporary times.
You can't go home again, but the white nationalists delude themselves with this notion every day, completely unaware that their chosen solutions have already annihilated the values they profess to hold dear.
4
Well said, thank you--
corvid wrote:
"There's something precious about anxious Westerners' collective reaction to being asked to share a little piece of their paradise, such as it is. Centuries of colonialism and the corresponding disruption of societies across the globe, yet now the currents are reversed and so the sky must also be falling.
Give those much-maligned "coastal elites" this much: they've had considerable success with actually embracing the melting pot. Their rewards have been vibrant economies, rich culture, and remarkable improvements in their treatment of a fragile biosphere. This is nothing new, as coastal cities have always been far more welcoming to the stranger.
Yet in the "heartland," distinguished by its lack of heart and where white nationalism is at a fever pitch, economic malaise, avoidable illness, and environmental degradation continue apace. There we find whites unable or unwilling to adapt to contemporary times.
You can't go home again, but the white nationalists delude themselves with this notion every day, completely unaware that their chosen solutions have already annihilated the values they profess to hold dear."
Sorry for the typo in my last comment. persiap, has to bersiap. sorry.
If I tell my students or my children that life is terrible and they are being cheated, I will depress them and then make them angry. Faux News does this all day as do Rush and Hannity and a thousand more. Now those depressed and/or angry people have installed an idiot king who has the loudest microphone of all. Truth and facts are meaningless in the face of fear and anger fueled by lies. Anarchy and violence are the only result. But its victims will be on both the left and the right.
1
The problem has always been, and always will be the right wing of all secular and religious stripes. Right wing Christians, right wing Jews, right wing Muslims, right wing atheists, and even, how is this even possible, right wing Buddhists. And, yeah, right wing white people and people of color. They promote the fear of the other,and try to drag the center and the left down into the pit of their foul frightened belief system. Resist.
Thank you for this essay.
78
It is the extreme of either side that is the problem. The left-wing has just as many violent groups, if not more than the right-wing. This silly talk of 'white nationalism' on the rise is ridiculous. Those people are the fringe of the fringe. I think we have more to fear from those that would do away with freedom of speech. The idea that you can use violence to get what you want is not a right-wing idea, it is the province of all petty dictators in training. Think antifa. They may be beating up your right-wing neighbor (was he really a Trump supporter?), but they will be coming for you next.
4
Um. Not quite. Not at all. Since 9/11, two thirds of all terrorist acts on American soil have been perpetrated by neo-Nazis and white supremacists, who have killed approximately as many people as have the famous Islamic-affiliated terrorists, according to the FBI. No other group in America has committed as many violent terrorist acts as these right-wing groups.
Moira Rogow wrote:
"... The left-wing has just as many violent groups, if not more than the right-wing. ..."
4
Left-wing extremists aren't so great either (See Stalin, Pol Pot, etc.)
1
hominids dont like each other very much...never have...
for better or for worse, leaders in most of the developed world are out of touch with their people...
1
A “thoughtful” piece of Liberal Imperialist propaganda. The problem is not with “white nationalism”--a cultural Marxist bogeyman--but rather the fact that, as Tocqueville noted some time ago, Islam is a political system parading as a religion, driven by clerics and imams who have no respect for the natural rights of men and women. Till that changes, democracies are wise to keep Islamic values and edicts beyond their shores and borders.
8
Congratulations. Your description of Islam perfectly describes the history of Christianity in Europe for over a thousand years of it's early existence there. And unfortunately, fundamentalist Christians ever since.
3
Mikeweb66,
European society has evolved and progressed, where Secularism is the norm and acceptable today.
Ever hear of the Enlightenment or the Reformation?
Islam and their Stone age theocratic run nations have a lot of dogma catching up to do.
6
I recall a news clip of French police harassing some burqa-clad women on a beech, while there was a group of Catholic nuns, dressed in full regalia, strolling near-by, completely unmolested.
3
Another Orwellian opinion piece in the New York Times. Nothing new here. Time to move on. War is peace? Love is hate? good is evil? Yeah, we've heard it all before.
12
If this article is arguing that white nationalism is a bigger threat to the west, than is Islam, then the point is true enough. But so what? One form of inhumanity doesn't render another benign. You are dead anyway.
Both are linked to fundamental religion, want submission, and aim to kill infidels. Islam isn't having much success in the west by demanding submission because it is a bunch of brown guys financed by Saudis. I live in New York, the local Saudi financed imam preaches death to infidels, calls west 'haram,' and encourages his flock to fight the system until everyone submits. I am frequently called a Zionist for calling him out.
Islam has pretty much ruined the countries where brown guys financed by Saudis have social stature (i.e., all of the Arabic world, South Asia, Southeast Asia). To that extent, the white christian nationalist taliban, propagated by clean cut uniformed men armed to their teeth, they seem heroic to many in the west. They are indeed very dangerous.
Do we accept that we live in this dimension? Because if we do, we must acept that the reason both are thriving is because we are ambivalent, and suffer from hubris of the 'it can never happen here.' If these nihilists have embraced certitude ('I am right, you are wrong), then we have embraced relativism to our peril ('no one is right or wrong.') If these guys are medieval, we have become perversions of post-modernism.
We've got to simply start smelling the coffee.
Kalidan
4
white nationalism is for the most part an exercise in free (and quite arguably despicable) speech, the very thing Western liberal values is supposed to be defending... islam, on the other hand, is a religion, not necessarily worse than any other religion, but with the unfortunate trait of not being separated from the state in the greater majority of countries in which its 1.8 billion followers reside... countries where most of the rights western liberals hold dear are non-existent, especially the rights to free speech and curiosity... often the values brought by muslims immigrants (in many cases at no fault of their own) are the values of state sponsored religion, which by it's core and very definition is intolerant of anyone who is not a believer, compound this by lack of integration and you have the perfect storm for unrest and violence... state sponsored religion is a source of evil and islam is on the forefront of state sponsored religion... western liberals need to unite and recognize that the suffering, intolerance, lack of civil rights and human suffering that happen in muslim majority countries make most of our problems minor in comparison...
3
No, sorry, it's not. White nationalism is bad, but it's not destroying much of anything. In fact Islamic terrorists are destroying a lot more than white nationalists...
15
It’s unfortunate that reality has a nasty way of intruding upon the author’s idyllic fantasy. The sheer naïveté on display here is impressive, beginning with the belief that “conflating” unchecked immigration with acts of terrorism perpetuated in the name of those same immigrants is calculated malfeasance instead of a perfectly natural reaction. The day that white nationalists commence mass suicide bombings is the day I’ll read her book.
11
After reading through the majority of comments here so far, I can only conclude that the cancer of white nationalism has metastasized to the point where it has infected even the relatively educated minds of New York Times readers.
I'm beginning to understand the despair of Hesse's protagonist in his novel, Steppenwolf.
70
Yes.
Joel Geier wrote:
"After reading through the majority of comments here so far, I can only conclude that the cancer of white nationalism has metastasized to the point where it has infected even the relatively educated minds of New York Times readers.
I'm beginning to understand the despair of Hesse's protagonist in his novel, Steppenwolf."
“White nationalism is in many ways a mirror image of radical Islamism” - how true...
They both share an ignorant and intolerant view that is based on a natural feeling of superiority.
Over centuries the world has shifted from a nation-centric to a global-oriented shape (esp. boosted by the Internet) and this evolutionary adaptation cannot be reversed as we are facing serious global problems the former is not capable of resolving.
Everyone somehow needs an identity but looking back is (and actually never has been) a good solution. Cultural pluralism has to be learned - no surprise that people from the former East Germany feel overwhelmed with it and complain the most (PEGIDA) although the proportional number of refugees and people with migration background there is multiple times less as compared to urban centers in the west. Maybe it's even a heritage from the authoritarian if not fascist Moscow-driven former regime of postwar East Germany as well as the underlying Prussian mentality.
Evolution tells us that species that weren’t able to assimilate became extinct - Donald Trump, Marie Le Pen, Vladimir Putin and their ilk are living examples for this...
Immigrants don't change the racial demography in any significant manner for they continue to prefer living within their own limited communities with cultural and social similarities in distant lands as their homes away from home.
Its more about politics of deprivation that flourishes in hard times for poor masses and turns as a movement led by fascists to power.
You must have missed Sadiq Khan, the first Muslim mayor of London, exhorting Britain to bring in more, not fewer immigrants and more from non-European areas. Of course, that would mean that eventually, there would be many more who looked like him with names like his, but he'll be the first person to tell you that tribal power has nothing at ALL to do with it.
Of course. No mention of how London's water supplies, infrastructure, schools, health services, already buckling, will keep pace.
London is now only 45% white and only 45% nominally Christian.
I fail to see why Denmark should be willing to undo its highly successful culture, which was built on extraordinary cultural cohesion and deeply shared values, history, language, and customs, is somehow evil for not wanting the problems that are afflicting wide swaths of Europe now.
The crime rate in Britain is now many times what it was in the 1950s. London was once one of the most civil and civilized of great European metropolises.
Now, pick the papers and read the wearisome litany of how congested it is that the Transport system has had to issue a "Civility Code" - its fingers tightly crossed behind its back as it does so.
Massive immigration is not always a blessing; any multicultural society is NOT ipso facto than any monocultural society, and demographics, contrary to your point, always ends up defining culture, defining cultural norms, and reshaping history.
What is destroying Europe is cringing relativism.
12
One day, long ago, for much of my life actually, I was a Socialist, a Communist, an anarchist. I got tired of hearing from wanna-be revolutionaries about how I should feel guilt for slavery, for gencoide, I should feel ashamed for my ancestors. Hearing this, daily, led me to an awareness that I'am proud of my ancestors, my past, my heritage and have no apologies. I have also come to the conclusion that liberalism and democracy are cancers. I do not identify as a white nationalist, but as a Eurasianist. Liberalism is the enemy, not Islam. Not white nationalism or black or Lakota. Democracy is a farce and must be eradicated. This forced multiculturalism of America is a disease.We are different and we must be proud of our differences.The dominant American consumer identity being forced on the world will go away.
3
What is truly "Trumpism?" Not simply anti-Obama critics.
1
i have to say that when i watch the usa men's national soccer team i see people, the fans, and i wonder, hmmm, is there more white nationalists in the stand or trump supporters vs. the the children of hippie types who were evangelized to like soccer, a more non violent, less branded form of sport? My hispanic friends of course loved Landon Donovan for his seemingly multiculturalist approach and his very good spanish. Now i see Jozy Altidore speaking spanish and taking his level of spanish to a higher level, or maybe just selling it. I don't care about politics. But i cared when usa fired Klinsmann. Of course, the team couldn't unite. Pulisic is a gem. They called him "el chico marivilloso", the boy wonder as it were on telemundo. But i got the feeling there is meangirlism against him. He's a dude from Hershey, PA with a name maybe that conjures white nationalism or at least in europe. So, we didn't pull together. And, for the world who loves soccer. That is a disgrace. Obama and Bob Bradley and Klinsmann are men all ahead of their time. So, politics, i'm out...until 5pm when i land back in Kansas
Spot-on analysis!
1
Poland merits a mention too for the deliberate drumming up of fear about Muslims in a country where there are barely any at all.
2
Brava and thank you, Sasha. Your outstanding article has brought out a hefty collection of white nationalists from the woodwork and onto this NYT comments section, thereby proving your point.
1
China and Japan don't allow Muslims to immigrate to their countries. Where's the criticism of them in this article?
11
Nor does Russia or the majority of Muslim countries. Go figure.
6
It is more than a little ironic that many of the originators of today's anti-Muslim bigotry were closely tied to Israel's Likud Bloc. This included Be'at Yor, Yigal Carmon, Steven Emerson, Daniel Pipes, Frank Gaffney, David Horowitz and more recently Pamela Geller, Andrew Breitbart, and Steven Miller. However, hate has a cunning way of spreading quickly to other targets and thus we see Neo-Nazis from the Alt-Right who valorized Rightwing Zionism and its blood and soil nationalism inevitably come around to target Jews as well as Muslims.
Stooooooop
Hyperbole.
White people can be proud and work toward their own progress too.
We can too.
5
The author is creating a false dilemma with the front page headline “White-Nationalism is the Real Threat to the West. Not Islam.” There can be more than one real threat at the same time...
5
Renaud Camus, described here as a French philosopher, appears to be little more than a publicity-seeking idiot. In the Vox interview linked to in this article, he continually contradicts himself, with apparently as little self-awareness as Donald Trump. If he and Alain Finkielkraut are representatives of French "philosophy," I think the Grand Remplacement cannot occur too soon.
3
Nationalism is the infant child of Fascism. Apparently we didn't learn anything from the past.
2
"The greatest threat to liberal democracies does not come from immigrants and refugees but from the backlash against them by those on the inside who are exploiting fear of outsiders to chip away at the values and institutions that make our societies liberal."
Perfectly stated. Indeed, if we were serious about trying to radically improve US society in every area from reducing crime to cleaning up the environment to rooting out corruption to making our electoral system fair to tackling the biggest challenges facing us including climate change, the best course of action would be the immediate deportation of all Republicans.
1
No. A rising tide of anti-immigrant sentiment does not lead inexorably to a Fourth Reich in Europe or elsewhere. When looking at the last election it is a stunning and under-observed fact that Latinos and African Americans voted for Donald Trump in slightly greater numbers than they voted for Mitt Romney. Romney was respectful of minorities and Trump was anything but.
It seems that a sizable number of darker skinned American citizens favor less immigration. Minorities won't march to preserve Confederate monuments but some of them will vote alongside neo-Confedereates and neo-Nazis to preserve the texture of the America they grew up in.
Moreover, even in liberal enclaves, even among card carrying ACLU members who have weathering "I'm with Her" bumper stickers on their Priuses, if you ask how people really feel about their towns looking, smelling and sounding different, many will admit to feeling conflicted. This isn't racism. It's normal human sentimentality. If American Democrats or German Christian Democrats want to reverse the rising tide of racism and channel home-firstism in the direction of the Enlightenment and the spirit of the United Nations, party leaders need to address it.
13
The defunct French empire has led to millions of N. Africans migrating to France. These emigrants were never been seriously allowed to become citizens of the country. They live in a 2nd class status that has turned prisons into schools for Islamic radicalism. The new xenophobic climate, with the decline of France's relative wealth and fear of loss of economic security of the French have made immigrants scape goats for right wing mischief.
1
Hatred runs deep in the human psyche. Hatred attracts millions of people. It intoxicates people like a drug. Marx said Religion was the opiate of the masses but I think Hate is also the opiate of the masses. Just look at who is President.
3
Boo Hoo!!!Ex colonialists being colonized by the previously colonized!!!C”est la Vie!!!But then again why the Islamic refugees were not taken in by their Muslim brethren and had to resort to being taken in by “infidel”nations remains a mystery.
3
Lets take a look at the various cultures of the world. The world has always been marked by informal boundaries between different cultures. For most of history these cultures did not intersect with one another. The times in history when the cultures intersected were marked by the Roman Empire and the British Empire. When the Roman Empire collapsed the cultural intersection collapsed also.
What is happening now is the result of technology which has made travel easy and affordable. The situation was made worse by the UN which lives in an unreconstructed and unrealistic Wilsonian universe. Idealistic agreements were made which over time have proved unworkable and a source of intense friction.
The problem is not White Nationalism but rather the doctrines of Globalism and multiculturalism which insist that all cultures should be homogenized.
15
Is it possible to stop the melding of cultures in our modern world? Our past history is full of those who tried to stop it and failed. IMHO, it is a natural evolution and we have been seeing this in the US since we became a nation.
It depends on how you define culture. The melding which took place in the past were of cultures with a common bases - for example European Culture has a common basis on the Enlightenment, the Middle East has a common basis on Islam etc. Now individual countries had their own traditions but they existed within the common basic culture of the Enlightenment. What is happening now is a conflict between the base culture = i.e. the conflict between the culture of Islam vs. that of the Enlightenment -- two fundamentally different and unique cultures.
7
Needless to say whites did not mind about immigration when they spread like locus out of Europe to eat up the land of the Americas, Africa, and throughout the world in the brutal enslavement of colonial empires.
The fact is the history of human evolution and the development of civilization is built on migration and immigration. It is an age old story one group in search of a better life establishing itself in new land often resisted by those already there and eventually to be followed by the next wave searching for a better life. To think this tide of change can be stopped - especially in era when travel from one place to another is so easy and communications between places even easier is as absurd as thinking you can keep the sun from rising in the morning.
We may not be here to see it but it will still come up.
6
I fear that Homo sapiens sapiens is such a flawed species that it will soon (a few hundred years from now?) eliminate itself from planet Earth for a variety of selfish reasons. Earth, of course, will carry on just fine, and new forms of life will populate the planet.
1
"Their rise threatens to transform countries that we once thought of as icons of liberalism into democracies only in name.”
------------
We have been a democracy "only in name" for a long time. The word "democracy" is being used incorrectly.
The US is a Republic.
And that matters because I think the main difference between our two major parties is based on their members' position on this one issue, Democrats want more voter participation and Republicans want less, and that makes it extremely important to the future of our country. Lying about not achieving the ideal does not make us look good, it does not make us a Democracy. It makes us look like ostriches, at best.
Democracy is an ideal we have never achieved. Every time a grass-roots movement starts, that's democratic. But it's sporadic, and it usually gets corrupted by selfish people like white nationalists, who only want to hold onto power exclusively. They don't want what's best for all the country's people.
We can achieve more democracy, but only if we don't lie about what we already are.
35
It looks like the is NYT is only approving the comments that agree with the point of the article and slow-walk the rest. Is it any different in North Korea or in any other third world country that messes with free speech to give the impression of a gleeful unanimity of thought on key issues?
10
Hogwash. This comment section is dripping with white nationalist vitriol. See, for example, the comment immediately following. I'm not seeing a whole lot of liberal bias in the editing. What I am seeing is how inhumane and downright uncivilized my fellow citizens can be. I share the author's concern.
2
This article is so absurd that it is hard to believe that even a far left paper like the NYT would publish it. Last time I checked, it was not "white nationalists" that flew planes into the World Trade Center or committed the multitude of atrocities perpetrated by ISIS or raped women indiscriminately in Germany or Sweden. Contrary to the claims of the author, there is absolutely no equivalence. And discouraging illegal immigrants who only seek to suck off of the welfare state and who have no interest in assimilation hardly destroys the democratic nature of a country. The United States belongs to its citizens (of all colors and creeds) and no one else.
15
Actually, it WAS a white nationalist who blew up the federal building.
And it certainly was NOT Islamic extremists who butchered hundreds of thousands of women and children in 2 utterly gratuitous nuclear bomb attacks or who massacred 3-5 million Vietnamese (overwhelmingly civilian) or who demolished Iraq and killed upward of a million people and set up a global network of torture chambers beyond the reach of law, creating ISIS in the process.
2
The nuclear bombs dropped on Japan are Japan's fault only. We had to drop two of them, think of it, they would not surrender after one, they did not care enough about their own people! McVeigh was not a 'white nationalist' no matter how many times the left says so. As to creating ISIS, please. Vietnam? It was a war, whether you agree with it or not. You cannot change the facts just because you hate.
4
You don't appear to know much about history. You could start by googling the phrase "Pearl Harbor". Were Americans killed there? Were the instigators white Americans or Japanese? I would then suggest you research the conditions in Japanese prison camps, where many Europeans, Australians, and American prisoners died. You might try to find a copy of a book called Knights of the Bushido, written by a survivor of one of those camps, I believe. It turns out the Japanese in charge of those camps weren't always the sensitive, kind humane enlightened heroes of your biased imagination.
2
This article is, itself, highly biased, racist, and hateful.
14
So who is more dangerous? Thai Buddhists murdering Rohinga Muslims, white seperatists blowing up federal buildings, Saudi Arabs flying jet aircraft into sky scrapers or crazed old white guys firing sub machine guns out of hotel windows into a crowd? I too am apprehensive for my children and descendants because they are the dark skinned offspring of my white daughter and her South Indian husband. I know there are places in this nation where they cannot safely travel. Not because of Muslims. It's the whites they need to fear. When you see torch bearing neo-nazis marching openly in America and the President of the United States declaiming some of them as good people, is it really Muslims you need to fear?
2
There is no place in this nation that your grandchildren can't travel that will be unsafe for them. You are falling for the fevered imagination of writers that have no experience of the US. I've been all over the world and all over the states. Some places are friendlier than others, per their culture, such as the mid-west. Texas is extremely friendly and very polite. I am not denigrating the mid-west, but they seem quite aloof by the standards of Texans, but I don't believe they will kill me because of this. There is no rising wave of white supremacism in this country that threaten non-white people. Please, get a grip.
6
Thank you, Moira. I am seriously considering moving to west TX for the reasons you mentioned. And because I "get" the culture and feel at home with it.
The comments say more about this issue than the article.
Whether its the alls or the reader picks the message is the same and is worthy of an article about those comments themselves.
5
No. Islam is definitely a greater threat to the world than "white nationalism".
10
Judaism is a lie. Christianity is a lie. Islam is a lie. These nonsensical religions must be abolished. Religion walks hand-in-hand with nationalism.
2
Trying to abolish them would ruin the world.
1
This opinion is well intended, but off the mark. Can a western woman go to a beach in a moslem country wearing a bikini? The answer is most probably No. These women would need to conform to the local customs. In some of these countries, Iran for instance, men and women cannot even share the same beachesat the same time.
France is secular country, extremely proud of its secularism. As such, overt display of religiosity, although not illegal, is discouraged. Moslem women wishing to live in France should behave accordingly. If bikinis on the beach are the norm, then don't go to the beach if it offends you. Criticizing a host country for its customs in the name of liberalism is unwarranted.
When in Rome, do as Romans.
17
Are liberals racing to denounce the Vatican for insisting that women visitors should dress modestly, wear long clothing despite Rome's stifling heat and cover their ankles? Are Orthodox Jews condemned in Europe for wearing religious attire? Of course not. It's about hatred of Muslims.
2
It may not be politically correct to say so, but I am a big fan of Western Civilization.
It has served us well here in the United States. If we lose it, we will never get it back.
17
We may often think it often sucks but look at many other countries of the world and it ain't ALL bad.
Many others apparently think so too, look how many want to come here.
5
It is fine to be a big fan of Western Civilization. Let's face it, western civilization is taught all over the world and appreciated by most. And because of the history of colonization, it is not just the province of people of white ethnicity. In addition to colonization which forced the way of adoption of western customs in many places, a voluntary sharing and cross pollination occurs today, thanks to rapid travel, technology and immigration/emigration.
In addition, all civilizations have had their dark ages of war and exploitation and class warfare, gender opression, repression of science and progressive ideas - some better documenter than others. No one civilization has the pure aura of advances in humanism and scientific progress without serious, often bloody whiplash.
Knowing what we do today, we should at least be willing to find a better way and support the institutions that were created to facilitate a dialogue and reduce the risk of war.
We can learn a lot about life by studying the history of Western Civilization. I am particularly thinking about the Great Books program that is taught at the University of Chicago.
1
Wrong from the beginning and that is the title of this piece. The term 'White Nationalism' used incorrectly here, is not destroying the West. The rules and virtues of Western societies is what made the West the leader of modern civilization.
It is those who flow to enter it, but refuse to adapt or fuse into its values and rules who are the destructive influences. They and those who seek to bring in more of them out of misplaced sympathy.
18
I certainly look forward to seeing anybody who pushes this guff conjugate the verb "to be," properly, and use commas, a point I raise because you folks are so often insistent that them immygrants learn the language.
Oh, and speaking of knowing American culture--you ARE aware that Sam Spade was created by a communist, yes?
The biggest threat to liberal Western values is the exploding birthrate in non-liberal, non Western countries.
This article itself is part of the problem. It lists a parade of "horribles", but it does not ask in any meaningful way why this is occurring. Nor, more importantly, does Polakow-Suransky engage with the fundamental issue, namely why liberal democracy has lost its broad allure.
Why have the liberal masses gone from looking outward with passion and pride at landing a man on the moon to looking self-absorbingly inward at a little screen that pretends the virtual is reality? Where have the liberal elites gone wrong in recent decades? Why do they currently seem incapable of presenting a vision that inspires and attracts more people rather than fewer?
It is not sufficient to simply blame the bad guys for being bad. Rather, we need to provide an alternative that deals with how people actually live their lives, not how we wish some day they will live their lives. It also does not help to lay all the problems confronting liberal democracy at the feet of white nationalism as, if it weren't for white nationalists, China, Saudi Arabia, and the Congo would be embracing "Western" values. Nor does it help to lump all white nationalists together, as if Scottish nationalists and the supporters of Trump have the same values and agendas.
What needs to be discussed more in these pages is not what white nationalists do wrong but what we can do to provide a credible alternative.
7
This type of argument is not flying to anyone who has seen what Calais's immigrant camp looked like or has been to Paris, lately. My daughter was in Paris about 4 years ago & when she missed her train and meet-up time with others in her group, she was harrassed mercilessly by scores of immigrant African men who appeared to be unemployed and hanging out doing nothing in the city. She ignored them, but several of them insisted on following her and whispering sexually suggestive questions and statements at her, rendering her terrified. Some of the white nationalism has nothing to do with this sort of behavior. But you want to ignore the fact that some of it does. While I will never condone white nationalism, I will also never fall for the easy name-calling and hypocrisy of the other side, either. What we have is a much harder problem of trying to assimilate groups of people who have much different views about culture and society into the West and some of them, just like us, don't believe they have to follow the rules. Your long-winded editorial doesn't even come close to addressing this problem, because you, like the rest of the world's politically correct social justice warriors want to make this about you and the people you feel have been wronged. Be a real leader and have the guts to talk about the real problem. We need to find ways to integrate these people into Western society, not permanently label them victims when some of them are clearly not.
148
So sorry that your daughter had to endure frightening harassment in Paris, Kimberly. I too endured harassment as a young female student in Paris in 1969-70 from North African male students who were newly liberated from their backgrounds of strict separation of the sexes. I did talk with one of these men, who was kind and not predatory.
In a recent trip to Paris, I felt a strong atmosphere of extreme inequality. I saw children being used as bait for street begging. I was the victim of pickpockets on the subway: a group of young men, white and black, who surrounded and distracted me while one of them unzipped the purse I was holding, unwisely, by the straps (rather than clutching it under my arm). Paris has long been famous for its pickpockets - the subject of a famous film by Bresson - but now, at age 68, I realized I had become a mark.
My sense is that France continues to be a country which offers only a narrow path up the economic ladder. Those we call on, rightfully, to integrate, have a difficult time. It is possible, but one has to be very able and very lucky. The immigrants sent to the small villages will be better off than in the former camp at Calais, but they will still have many difficulties in overcoming the resentment of locals, who themselves have a hard life (see: “The End of Eddy,” an award-winning book of auto-fiction about the life of a French gay boy, Eddy Bellegueule,who endures life in a small village in Picardie, until he is able to escape.)
2
Not to condone their actions, but "immigrant African men" aren't the only men in any given nation who harass women with "sexually suggestive questions and statements". This disgusting behavior is exhibited by many men of all ages and cultures in practically every country, including the U.S.
You're conflating two distinct problems: immigration and rampant male misogyny.
Avoid the Gare du Nord if you are female and travelling alone.
2
The author fails to address to address the unique formation of White Nationalism in America. The existence and status of African Americans has been America's shame since its inception. Brought over on slave ships in chains, the African American can not be accused of not assimilating. Generations have been directed from slavery to separate but equal and through it all, African Americans have embraced the ideals of our Constitution and Bill of Rights while simultaneously being denied true, real participation in same.
The current resurgence of White Nationalism in America seeks to once again define the parameters of inclusion. Our President is currently telling the African Americans that they are not Real Americans and are not sufficiently grateful for their being allowed to participate in "our' society. Richard Spencer envisions a time when America will be white and the African Americans will have taken themselves off back to the continent of Africa because they do not know which country they came from.
White Nationalism in America does not just attack immigrants, it separates and excludes American citizens who in every single way definable are the foundation of our nation. President Trump is the most nasty of the White Nationalist movement, destroying and dividing from Within our once great nation. And we need to fight him and his ilk every single day.
7
1. Please cite even ONE instance of Trump telling African Americans that they are not "real Americans". 2. Please cite ANY laws currently on the books anywhere in the US in 2017 that encourage or even permit discrimination in housing, employment, education, health care, banking etc based on race. There is far, far more discrimination, exclusion and bias based on age than on race in the US, but liberals are not honest enough to admit it.
6
It must be very pleasing to pose as a champion of immigrants if one has never visited a Paris banlieu which are the Third World, seeting with hatred of the French where being white is a significant hazard as the night approaches. Polakow-Suransky never explains why it is a good idea to admit people from culturally incompatible regions of the world, who refuse the equality of women and display religious intolerance and hostility. He/she should move into one of the banlieus for a year and then write another column - if he/she wants to walk the talk.
Otherwise this is just another ideology masquerading as personal virtue.
16
The premise here is ridiculous, it over simplifies the problem. It blames all of our ills on white nationalism (agree it is a big problem) without recognizing the lefts overwhelming desire to forget our western philosophies and values in order to bend over backwards and welcome individuals that have no intention of adopting our way of life. The two sides feed on each other. What we need is to restore balance in order to ensure fairness for our immigrants and each other.
8
Just more left wing propaganda, cited all the staged public events that have now become myth and legend to be cited to further whatever agenda they were staged and triangulated.
9
Excuse me, but "refugees" have been conflated with other migrants, some of whom are restless young men, some of whom are jihadis, some of whom are looking for an economic lift, and some of whom are looking for the most generous welfare state. They are not these cute little nuclear families as shown in the drawing. They are the camel's nose under the tent to bring in second wives and extended families, and they do seek countries with the most generous benefits. They don't stay in Turkey and other Muslim countries. Further, they do wear Muslim garb as a banner announcing they want the best of the West, but they want it on their terms - they want not to assimilate. That never goes well.
11
A clearly written documentation of a type of THEM, in our ongoing WE-THEM daily,violating culture, country and world. The words describe. They do not explain.Numbers, which increasing are used, and misused to represent people can and do cover up. They do not adequately uncover both what we need to know as well as to understand. THEY,who also represent a range of diversities, whatever their unprincipled principles of faith, faux religious-underpinned words and deeds,are religious, and faithful, in name only.This article, and other such documentation can help US to know what's going on, if we already don't. But not to move beyond words to needed actions, individually and together to recreate culture's for menschlichkeit. Mutual caring. Respect. Trust. Mutual help, when, if and as needed. Recognizing the realities of of necessary, relevant human and nonhuman resources to be successful.To limit, and even vanquish current willful blindness, deafness and ignorance. Toxic complacency. Active cooptation. Worded documentation- a beginning- is not enough to overcome institutionalized barriers to equitable well being. To build and sustain bridges to levels and qualities of life for all.
This is in part because all on earth are cheered on to celebrate their culture and heritage with the exception of European whites.
We are told that we are bad, bad, bad. Always.
It seems as if all else fails, just blame white people for all of the problems in the world. It is starting to become redundant.
If white societies, culture and countries are so awful then why do so many desire to come and live in them? Must have done some things right.
14
Like invading their countries, destabilizing democratically elected regimes and allying ourselves with despots that serve our Western political interests?
I'm kinds sick of hearing "we're so good-good-good" from Westerners that ignore the ugly side of their progress. They got that way from plundering other societies!
1
IMO a nuns habit, yes thats is ok. I veil is a mask that is not ok.
We have to be able to identify people. A veil is too much.
3
What a nice "apple and pears" article of the NYT. It throws together Anti-Semitism, Xenophobia, White Supremacy and Nationalism and comes to the conclusion that White Nationalism is destroying the West.
That it could have economic roots that Western society is capsizing isn't mentioned nowhere. Capitalism and exploitation are unknown words. If I think of the rude meaning of the phrase "Human Resources" (mostly shortened to a mere HR) I know much better what's going on. People are feeling underpaid, their pensions being a joke. Their expectations in their lives being ruined as they have to discover.
The so called Elites have no answers and no solutions for this decline, nothing is done against it, and so a helpless public finger-pointing and hate speech is starting. Nice prospects for the future!
4
Fear and insecurity can make people ugly. Look in the mirror often, and keep your mind and heart open. Don't become what you fear.
2
Single-race Whites will fall from around two thirds of the population of the USA to 46% in 2050. As for American kids, more than half of them will be from minorities by 2023. In 1961, some 92% of New Zealanders identified as European in ethnicity – by 2026, the European share will have fallen below 70%.
We 'Anglos' have then in essence a stark choice – basically between trying to defend what's left of our Beleaguered Promised Lands or casting ourselves as open and idealistic Shining Cities on the Hill.
So the starting point surely is to ask whether we put the Memes of Western Civilization above the Genes of the Patriarchs? My own view is that Option 2 inevitably leads to Discriminatory Populism and the Erosion of Civil Liberties on the road to Totalitarianism and Barbarism. In short, I get much better vibes listening to President Obama, reflecting that he may have acquired at least some of his values from his Dunham ancestors, than I do watching Donald Trump’s blotchy red face and blond hair as he trashes all I hold dear.
Time for us all to take our stands here – the world population and wealth clocks are ticking in an over-populated and environmentally threatened globe. Are you for Memes or Genes? Are you for Amity or Enmity? Are you with the all-nation Apostles or the exclusionary Patriarchs?
3
Unfortunately the vitriol of nativists has already scared beyond repair the veneer of the "civilized" Judeo-Christian democracies.
2
If in America we were to attempt to screen out people who would commit violent terrorist acts by demographic - rather than by examining their individual behavior, as Homeland Security does - we would have no choice but to consider banning white males, from Littletown to Las Vegas.
4
Whites had better start raising their reproduction. No more one or two child families. It must be 4-6 children.
We know that is not going to occur, so get used to the diversification.
It would be a whole cost effective to provide contraceptive measures for homo sapiens, as a whole, to reduce our reproduction. Demographic contests are never won. Just ask the Palestinians, the Romanians born thanks to Ceacescu's decrees, and the Turk women having Erdogan dictating a minimum of 5 births each.
1
I'd wager - and I'd win handily - that many of the commentators here who accuse Muslims of being unable to assimilate to Western values are the same people who support employers' "religious freedom" to not purchase insurance plans that include women's birth control (but that do leave leave vasectomies and Viagra intact); who favor DOMA; who don't fight for equal pay for women; who don't believe gays, lesbians, and transgendered people have equal rights under the law; who would abolish abortion even in the case of rape or risk of health due to pregnancy or giving birth, and punish women who get them; who accuse the nation's first Black POTUS of having infiltrated the federal government to become president because they can't accept that the Office is no longer whites only.
The headline gets it exactly right; the protests here to it only prove that point.
Keep on keepin' on, Sasha. I live in the red South, am female, 51, as Caucasian as it gets, and I push this message through DAILY because ignorance must be defeated every chance we get.
120
Now perhaps I'm an outlier, but as an atheist liberal 40-something female living in a blue state, what I would really love is freedom from religion - in all of its forms. Our reproductive choices as women are slowly being eroded by the religious right, our employers don't have to pay for contraception due to their own personal religious beliefs. We are hanging on to separation of church and state by a thread.
With this being said, I don't savor the idea of allowing people into our country who do not share many of our progressive values. If you agree to equal rights and pay for women, gays, and people of color, then welcome aboard to the USA. If your religion is too extreme to entertain such thoughts, then I don't really think we should be rolling out the red carpet for you, and I don't care if you are a fundamentalist Christian, Jew or Muslim for that matter.
3
You have lost your wager then.
Painting a broad brush here, one that could cover a barn.
2
I join you, Anjou, as an "outlier", and there's lots of us outliers. I've never voted for a Republican. But we Americans make a big mistake and romanticize that all who come here want to be free people. They do not. To claim that many of Muslim women in America are oppressed is "xenophobic" is absolutely a false claim. Many Muslim American women will tell you as much.
2
If they mean groups like the Klan or neo-Nazis, sure, most people despise them. But, a far bigger threat to us than small toothless groups of ignorant marchers, are the fascist groups that the media seems to have taken a liking to - or at least benignly ignore - who attack speakers and marchers, beat or torture people who voted for Trump, smash windows, burn cars, chant "death to cops" and stop or interrupt political rallies. Because the media sees itself as on the same side - it barely covers their bad acts, including, amazingly, when Dem. congresspersons took over the house floor last year.
I don't support either major party, I didn't vote for either of the two worst candidates in history. I doubt I will vote for pres. in 2020 either. And, for a change, I feel like I'm in the mainstream. Most people are more moderate than either party, even if they chose a party. They don't like white nationalists or Black Lives Matter. Most think little of Trump, but many are also appalled by the partisan media, by the fascists who riot and try to strike fear in those who disagree with them, by politicians who think they should control all aspects of their lives and racists who call others racist just b/c of their skin color.
Our country is strong enough to survive bad presidents. What concerns me and others more is the move back to violent protest and the media's acceptance of it while by those they see as on their side.
4
You didn't vote? You have no right to complain about the actions or lack of actions of the current administration. By not voting you accept whomever is residing in the White House. Even if the candidate you voted for were to lose, at least, you could say, "I tried".
1
One core Western value that has been trampled on is the right to open debate. On the subject of mass migration, none of the citizenry of the countries affected have been encouraged to weigh in on policy or take part in a broader discussion about the role of migrants. Instead, people have been told over and over that they are racist and ignorant when they show any signs of discomfort with the rapid changes happening around them - changes which include mass harrassment of women as at Cologne, and bombs going off at train stations and at concerts.
The rise of the white nationalists is partly a backlash to this.
10
Donald Trump is like a virus morphing into a plague across America. Not only has he sullied public discourse and promoted racial animosity but his presence feels like a heavy cloud hanging over a nation that despite its flaws still offers and affords promise to all those willing and able to contribute.
We as a nation have overcome challenges before and we shall overcome Trump as well. Hurricanes come and go - and so will Trump.
3
It really doesn't matter eventually whites will become the minority in most western country's. I think the real problem is most people don't understand why Western Nations need immigrants, no one explains to them the massive National Debt, most of these nations have run up, and the inability to meet population replacement rates since the 1970s, or the demographic nightmare we are facing with aging boomers the majority in which are poor
4
If we so badly NEED immigrants well then let's admit more from the countries that share the same Westernized, more evolved or secular values.
2
There are a number of half-truths in the article, starting with the implied link between the Nice attack and the "burkini" ban, which, for all of its lack of sensitivity, was first issued to protect the women wearing it from harassment when police efforts were centred on counter-terrorism. Of, course, it was then picked up by other cities and politicians and the rest is history, but let's try not to forget context in something that happened so little time ago. Secondly, the author equates white supremacism with anti-Islam movements, which she again equates to anti-Islamist movements. As a humanist, I sympathise with all those who fight against radical ideologies, and that includes Islamism and its incarnations such as Wahhabism. But that means I fight against white supremacists, too.
And finally, while France may regularly make the headlines because of our dreadful far-right, it is mostly just that, headlines. Contrary to countries like Austria, Greece, some Balkan or Eastern European states, and even parts of the U.S., the vast majority of the French people have fought the ideas of the far right for years. What is still scandalous in France and in international papers is commonplace and sometimes embraced in some of the places listed above. That is not to say France does not have a problem with racism: it does, like most Western countries. But labelling it as the source of white supremacist ideology is both inaccurate and insulting. Less sensationalism, more facts, please.
4
Instead of a comprehensive discussion of the rise of nationalist groups and the challenge of mass migration of people, we get a shrill ideological polemic. There is a need to thoughtfully and soberly discuss the rise of anti-immigrant feeling and political movements. This piece clearly fails.
Why are ordinary people in Europe and now in my country attracted to the fringe? How do we accommodate large numbers of people from a culture having adversarial views of liberal western cultural values? On the last point, the author of this piece incorrectly (with bias?) claims that concern about Muslim deeply held cultural values involving women and gays is merely a cover for bigotry. To which I and many others respond the hard left has a huge blind spot about misogyny and homophobia in Muslim culture which cannot be defended in any logical or consistent way.
Let's condemn the neo-Nazis and the racist kooks, but stop crying the sky is falling or the wolf is at the door. Neither is yet true, and exaggeration does not help one's argument.
5
Thanks for writing this. It's enlightening to read all of the top commenters who so immediately and vociferously miss your point, claiming that you aren't defending the legacy of white liberalism hard enough or condemning Islam wholesale enough. These are probably the same people who, two months ago, were scoffing at the idea that white supremacy was a rising problem in the US, telling antiracist protesters that they were doing white nationalists a huge favor by paying any attention to them.
Apparently if you criticize anything out loud, it had better be with a big helping of "both sides"--otherwise, you just don't love the West enough to be considered credible.
3
Agreed. The comment section for this article is totally disheartening.
While the article may have a number of weak points, there is a well document rise of hate crimes in the US and other Western countries, as well as much documentation of more outward hostility towards people of color.
I for one, strongly believe in the "all people are created" equal version of what makes the West great.
2
By the way, i saw residents of Calais interviewed. The migrant camp turned a once lovely area into cesspit. The young men hung out around schools ogling girls as young as eight. Interviewees talked about having to walk their daughters to school and home now because of the groups of young men watching them. Petty crime, home break-ns. residents having to build fences around their gardens.
Europe is not the Third World's dumping ground. I don't see why, if no one finds it reprehensible for Nigeria to want to retain its blackness and culture, Europe should have to apologize for wanting to retain its whiteness and culture.
When white Europeans came to this country, within 150 years there were so many more of them than there were of the indigenous peoples here that they became the cultural norm. Demographics are always a numbers game. What happened to Native Americans here should be an object lesson to all those fatuous open borders types exhorting Europeans not to worry about numbers because Everyone Is Everyone And Everyone Is Wonderful And History And Culture Are Meaningless.
Just ask the Sioux and the Cheyenne how that worked for them.
16
The last point deserves emphasizing. The nationalist/religious far right is pretty much the same as the Islamist fanatics they purport to be against. Both espouse a rigid race/faith-based division of the world into "us" and "them," with the "them" vilified and undeserving of even basic human consideration. Both seek to impose their views on everyone else, often by violence in the name of ideological purity. Both see anyone who disagrees with them as not merely opponents but as mortal enemies, intrinsically inferior, to be destroyed or subjugated. The irony is that they themselves are forfeiting their own humanity, abandoning everything that lets us rise beyond being cave men.
5
It is a mistake to see the rise of white Nationalism as a spontaneous response by the disaffected to economic inequalities. They are an opportunity and their passion is being exploited to advance unconnected agendas. Our problem is not the growth of fascism, but rather the maniacs who may ride upon it wave.
Openness, being tolerant towards the others, showing respect for the others are some pillars that can be acquired by constant education & hard work whereas,the opposite views adaptation require nothing but raw hatred
Destruction is easy whereas building something is tough therefore people of building bridges are quite and down to their endeavors whereas others are noisy as a consequence not that occupied by nature
Modern times people only can be persuaded into something by rational and logic though can not be forced into something by raw forces .
All in all it doesn’t mater where it comes from the nosiness , vulgar language and raw force threats originate from evilness
We forget or ignore that Darwin did not raise "kill or be killed, survival of the fittest" as the pinnacle of human nature:
“As man advances in civilization, and small tribes are united into larger communities, the simplest reason would tell each individual that he ought to extend his social instincts and sympathies to all members of the same nation, though personally unknown to him. And this point once reached, there is only an artificial barrier to prevent his sympathies extending to the men of all nations and races.” (Charles Darwin, "The Descent of Man")
The father of evolution crowned the material law of survival of the fittest with the spiritual Golden Rule.
1
Just as the Soviet Union supported communist movements worldwide, so Russia is now supporting far right nationalist movements worldwide. In part, Mr. Putin's goal is to weaken Europe and the United States to give Russia freer rein to do as he pleases in Crimea, Ukraine, and the rest of eastern Europe. In part, however, it's simply to spread the ideology and mode of government that now dominates his own country. Just as the left in the United States was sometimes soft on communism, the American right today is soft on far right nationalism. American conservatives need to decide whether they want what Russia is exporting or whether "conservativism" is essentially different from Putinism -- just as American liberals once had to decide whether their politics were essentially different from Soviet Communism. Thus far, the Republican Party appears to have decided, at the very least, to welcome Putin-supporting fellow travellers. So have the National Front in France and the AfD in Germany. America, however, is at greatest risk; only we have an elected leader placed in power in part with Putin's assistance, backed by a Putin-sympathetic party that now controls all levels of government. The result is precisely what Putin has always wanted: an America in shambles, an America divided, an America incapable of world leadership. Remember: Trump is just a symptom. Remember who the real enemy is.
The irony is most of these very xenophobic countries mentioned in the article historically barged uninvited into many countries around the world intruding upon the local cultures and lifestyle of people there, subjugating them as colonies and plundering not only their economic wealth but also cultural heritage.And now they are uncomfortable when people from the rest of the world are pouring into their own country.
1
It is not so much white nationalism that is destroying the West. It is the massive arrival of populations who have no intention whatsoever of accepting the house rules. White nationalism is the immune reaction to a graft that may never take.
14
This is exactly the kind of column we don't need to help us think more seriously about immigration policy. Its message, in essence: "either you're for mass immigration, or you're a right wing racist."
I'm sure this goes down easy with the average reader of the New York Times. But it doesn't seriously address the question of what levels of immigration further the common good.
Europeans don't have to wait until Muslims have "taken over" their societies to ask themselves whether an ever larger percentage of foreigners is the Rx for improving their societies.
Similarly, Americans don't have to fear or dislike immigrants to wonder whether importing ever more poor, relatively poorly educated workers is good for our society--a society, after all, with ever growing economic inequality.
It would be nice if more liberals thought hard about these questions, rather than patting themselves on the backs for their own high-mindedness.
15
Excellent op-ed. The most horrifying aspects of the White Nationalist rise is that the movement, like the fires now burning northern CA, cannot be stopped in the short term. High winds and low humidity will cause them to flare up and spread further leaving only devastation in their path.
Weather is also the oxygen driving the White Nationalist movement. Climate driven migration is increasing exponentially, Exacerbating climate change is in the interests of White Nationalists. Cynical politicians can institute policies that promote its ills and then use the plight of those driven from their lands by inciting fear and exploiting ignorance. The values that once defined liberal democracies are being laid to waste and an even meaner struggle for survival among ever scarcer resources is the legacy being created for our children.
1
People with medieval worldviews fleeing barbaric regimes, persecution and starvation have been coming here for generations. Usually they want to be Americans. Since Americans don't have a particular color or religion, that can work out. It usually has. Where it hasn't, it's because society thwarts their assimilation. We've had a few problems with a few Somali Americans. But overall, it works pretty well here with lighter complected immgrants.
1
Things that make it tough for authoritarian right wingers to gain political
Political traction:
1) A deep sense that on some fundamental level the economic system is fair.
2) A deep sense that your child will have a better life than you because the state provided him or her a better education than the one you had.
3) Looking at a service man in a dress uniform missing a limb and having a Middle Eastern name.
4) Going to a church seen over by a clergyman who reminds us that all of us are God's children and therefore one another's brother and sister.
5) A willingness to contain impulses that would drag any of us toward stupidity.
How we got to where we are at this particular moment is intellectually interesting. The compassionate world we want to get back to with Donald Trump, Mike Pence and Steve Bannon leading us will be impossible to reach.
3
Wow. Commenters are really quick to condemn Islam and Islamic people. This article is far from perfect, but I think the author makes a lot of really valid points. Those of you who disagree so harshly, my step back a little and think about why you demonize Muslim so much.
3
A liberal's dilemma: "Ok, now it has come to the point of self-preservation. Let's ban immigration and generally do the stuff that would appease the right, fine. .... But let's please also stop meddling with the countries' of those immigrants, something we have been doing for like centuries as if we were some sort of superior beings?.. oh, but can we? and aren't we? Nah, we can't do that. Those poor unenlightened bronze-age souls need us. Who else is there to grab their resources, puppet their leaders, and generally keep them in check at the bottom of the food-chain? hmmm... the chicken or the egg?"
2
What liberal society is this author talking about? The one we started in the 60's, and which has gone downhill since Reagan?
White nationalism is the whole problem? What excuse then for Africa's problems, or those in Asia and the Middle East? The US may meddle and spy and bribe, but it isn't White Nationalism that lets the US in.
Please try to find authors that have a passing acquaintance with history and the honesty to deal with reality.
10
"a law, masquerading as neutral, had explicitly targeted one religious group."
If stricter measures are necessary to keep a society safe, isn't it fair for them to be localized where the particular danger is emanating from? Or does the entire society necessarily have to live under stricter scrutiny in order to preserve the value of equality under the law? Should we just pretend then that Christian, Jewish, and Hindu fundamentalists are regularly committing mass murders around Europe?
"When rapid immigration and terrorist attacks occur simultaneously — and the terrorists belong to the same ethnic or religious group as the new immigrants — the combination of fear and xenophobia can be dangerous and destructive." Just think about this for a second, and reflect upon the writer's priorities. The problem for her is not in inviting mass immigration from the very class of people from whom the Jihadis emerge; it's rather that this fact has caused an outbreak of hysteria and an exaggerated, over-generalized fear. Furthermore, in order to suppress these concerns (be they measured and sensible or hysterical and pathological), everyone who opposed Merkel's diktat is slandered as a white nationalist, a racist. The writer comments that "legitimate debates about immigration policy and preventing extremism have been eclipsed by an obsessive focus on Muslims." But this is a red herring. Prudential opposition to increased Islamic immigration has been recast as pathological "obsession."
3
I don’t believe there is any danger of Muslims taking over our country or any other Western country; however, I do find it a bit odd that these white supremicist groups think and speak out about an “Islamic conquest.” I know Muslims in my community and they just want to be accepted and allowed to live their lives as they see fit. I was brought up in a Christian family and I share their feelings. What I have seen of today’s so-called Christians scares me more than Muslims ever could. These “Christians” outnumber us all, including Muslims and threaten to take away our freedoms on a daily basis. They strongly believe that their brand of Christianity should govern us all. They forget that there are many religions in our country besides Christians and Muslims. Freedom of religion is enshrined in the Constitution but I fear we are losing the battle, even with those “strict constructionists” on the Supreme Court.
2
Pretty broad cloak you're spreading. Regarding the anti-Muslim sentiment here in the US, what is still in many people's minds, are images of large crowds in The Middle East, cheering when the World Trade Centers fell. I know, that the writer will blame White Supemacy, White Nationalism, White Privilege, and anything else to do with People of Not-To-much Color, but the fact is, basically all the media shows most of America is the negative about Islam, then they blame the same people for a negative view of Islam. Same with the illegals. There aren't too many people here that have any issues with Hispanics, but many, many have an issue with People crossing illegally, and just squatting on the edge of society.
And the thing with White Supremacy, in the US, it is a very small group. Certainly not the people that elected Trump, as much as the writer wants to believe that, certainly not in any position to influence anything, I would say that Americans realize that those guys are nuts, and very, very few agree with them.
The world sees what happens daily in France and the rest of Europe. We certainly don't want it happening here too.
5
Most opposition to immigration in the U.S. has been against illegal immigration, while the press and many people left of center seem to consider illegal vs. legal immigration to not be an distinction worth mentioning.
6
There are far too many good points on both sides of this debate (specifically over limits on human migration) for it to conclude anytime soon. To characterize either side as totally right, or wrong, is not only foolish, it is untenable. You don't actually believe in free human migration. You may think you do, but you don't. Your claim to represent liberalism by furthering the domination of billionaires and dangerous, anti-woman and anti-gay cults, strikes me as thoroughly mixed up.
2
It's not growing it's dying by default. Once Trump is gone, America will return to normal.
It's strange: immigration seems to be the one place where NYT commenters are uniformly right-leaning. I don't know if right-leaning people search out this type of article or if these comments are truly representative of the usual readership. If the latter, and this is what passes for middle-of-the-road liberal these days, it's astonishingly dismaying to see the casual bigotry and stereotypes, which just prove Polakow-Suransky's point. Uncritical acceptance of anti-Muslim rhetoric, uncritical acceptance of the idea that our culture is somehow pure and should be kept pure, uncritical acceptance of the idea that immigration hurts the economy rather than helps it, blindness to homegrown American Christian hatred of gays, women, violence towards "heretics," and desire for theocracy, complete ignorance of the history of immigration in this country. It's deeply scary.
2
I'm scared for my children at this point.
1
There is something happening in France called communautarisme It occurs among Muslim immigrant communities when they decide to shun the laws and civil codes of France in favor of those more acceptable for Islam.
This spills into workplaces (Muslim men, for example, who refuse to accept a women boss or shake a women's hand) and in other parts of society.
Communautarisme is growing in France in immigrant and Muslim neighborhoods.
Most French who are opposed to this are not necessarily right wing fantatics. They are ordinary French people concerned about he society in which they live. They don't hate "the other" but they don't wish to be told they have to hate themselves if they feel attached to a society that is liberal and democratic and respects equal rights.
The problem with this essay is its lack of tolerance for these views and concerns. Anyone who opposes this kind of communautarisme is immediately labeled a hater or racist, or right wing nationalist.
In my opinion this only fuels discord and provides no way forward.
10
The point of this article in relation to the first few lines is lets not worry about potential solutions to the new problem of terrorism growing in our countries and killing many innocents (86 in the example given) but lets worry about a government banning a garment. I'm all for free expression and all, but this is why people don't like this paper any more. I'm sorry if I'm not with you with outrage over a burkini ban. Why is that even comparable to the death of 86 people? One of those two is real oppression. If oppression is the usual target of the NYTimes, why aren't you talking about the victims who were oppressed by losing their lives? You don't come back from death. You did call the woman who had to remover her head scarf a "victim" right?!
5
Too bad France has strict gun laws ... 86 killed with a truck! I don't recall anyone calling for gun control evaluating the Las Vegas shooting in terms of this alternative.
1
It never ceases to amaze me how some people are so afraid of people they don't know and who happen to believe or act differently from themselves. They are intellectually stilted by their unfounded fears. Ask any of these very conservative nationalists what they really want and they probably don't have a clue.
2
What was said about nuclear weapons and be said about extreme nationalism: it's "One World or none"
1
Fear of immigrants will continue because migration will continue due to population growth and rising waters or drought. The people who can’t stay where they are need to move and go somewhere.
They have higher birth rates than we do, while we support foolish policies that block family planning with our NGO dollars as every republican president has done for the last 40 years.
We make the problem worse and then we blame them for coming.
Africa is the largest continent in the world. There is plenty of room there for the African people. They need to fix African problems in Africa, not just impose African problems on other continents.
3
Interesting article. However, there are some factual comments to make: the author suggests that all democracies are liberal democracies, which is not the case. The term liberal democracy is of recent date, and is probably coined to contrast it with the age-old "social democracy." Europe has had many social-democratic governments: The Netherlands, Germany, France, Italy, the UK. Moreover, in Europe, the term "liberal" is confined to conservative, if not right-wing politics. The polical parties and their voters who are fervently against a ban or even a strict immigaration policy have always been social-democrats. Geert Wilders: often put into the "white-supremacists" category has an Indonesian background, and knows exactly what it means, either by his own experience, or that of his parents, to be thrown out of the country - in the forties and fifties by Sukarno. Thousands of people of Indonesian-Dutch descent were killed in the persiap, which was in fact an ethic cleansing - by non-white nationalists and supremacists! – and hundreds of thousands had to flee to the Netherlands, where they had to build a new life, which, with an enormous stamina more or less succeeded, as these people had Dutch passports and were all Christian, which made the still difficult proces of "fitting in" a new society more than a little bit easier. Immigration is far more complex than the author claims, as his thesis is: without white supremacists/nationalists it'll all be fine.
1
Even minority groups fear being displaced by being outbred. In the USA many blacks feel threatened as a political and socioeconomic group by the Latinos' growth past them in sheer numbers.
3
"Islamists are not on the verge of seizing power in any advanced Western democracy or even winning significant political influence at the polls."
Oh? Take a look at the UK. We have had a rotten borough in London for a decade where islamists-linked cabals wield power. We have entryism in schools, courts, civil service, media. Your complacency is what gives rise to an extremist reaction.
6
It is precisely liberal blather like this column that caused the rise in anxiety and xenophobia in the West. Every nation has a right to maintain its own cultural identity, except the Western (mostly) Christian democracies, it seems.
Liberals condemn “nationalism,” except when it is the nationalism of the wealthy Islamic Gulf States or Japan etc., who refuse to take in any Islamic refugee for fear it will change the “culture” of their country.
It’s almost maddening to see this double standard in the media: the liberal, successful (mostly) Christian democracies in the West must bear all the burden of immigration and the difficulties of assimilation while the rest of the world gets a free pass. No wonder some of its citizens are anxious.
7
Anyone interested in the impact of Islam on Europe, and indirectly on the United States, should read The Strange Death of Europe. You will be horrified, even if you've been connecting the terrorist acts, attacks against Jews, gradual accommodations to Muslims, curbs on free speech, headscarves, rapes, etc. to the common thread, namely Islam. Among other things, you'll learn that the hard-line Islamic countries have taken barely any refugees from Syria, sometimes zero, but have offered to pay for mosques in Europe, and that most Muslims who have arrived in Europe in the last couple of years were economic migrants encouraged by the policies of European politicians, not actual refugees. One natural implication is that we will end up with more right-wingers in power in the US.
7
As far as letting refugees in, I am in favor of all non-religious refugees and immigrants, and denying entry to all patriarchal religions, which means almost all, except for Wicca . No, I do not want Muslims here, and I am called a "bleeding heart liberal." I don't want Catholics, Protestants, or Jews. They are all oppressive to women.
Helping desperate people is fine and good, if those desperate people don't then abuse women. Being desperate doesn't give one a pass to carry their sexist opinions and religion into our country. We already have too much on our own.
Until women have true equality and value in the world, don't expect the world to evolve under patriarchal rule. It cannot.
4
Exactly how do Jews and Protestants "oppress" women?
White Nationalism arose from the reagan Thatcher economic policies that destroyed government by the people in favor of government by the wealthy. The inevitable resentment that destruction of government by the people was planned for and steered into these white nationalist groups as well as groups like Antifa both mirror images of themselves. That image is of an immature insecure person ignorant of grammar and reason chasing the strongest emotion they have evoked in themselves or let another evoke for them.
Society has been set against itself to distract it from what is being done to it for several decades.
You want a return to what was a progressing rational society then you have to return western governments to government by the people.
1
Are the Africans in Africa called "black supremacists" because they live on a black continent with homogenous black populations and like it this way?
Are the Chinese in China called "Chinese supremacists" because they live in a homogenous Chinese country of 1.4 billion people?
And so on. As a native white European, I take offense with the term "white supremacist'. It is more and more used to bully us into giving up any claim on our old cultures and ethnically cohesive countries, so outsiders can come in and take over.
110
Where has “outsiders” taken over in Europe?
2
Africans are native to Africa. Chinese are native to China. The USA is native to American Indians. The rest of us are immigrants. To insist that only white immigrants belong here is part of the problem.
And of course, Africans behaving badly towards non-Africans and Chinese behaving badly towards non-Chinese should be equally criticized along with whites behaving badly towards non-whites. And you may notice that these terms -- Africans, Chinese, and whites -- are quite confused, confusing original inhabitants, assimilated others, non-assimilated others, skin color, etc. What is a native white European? Are you talking about appearance, culture, ancestry. Again, these concepts are complex. The complaint about white nationalists is that in most cases it is a cover for ignorant bigotry.
2
The paucity of likes for this comment speaks volumes about NYTimes readership who may be quick to use both "Islamaphobe" and "White Supremacist," as though it produces some positive result rather than just empty virtue signaling. It is a strange day when people of a particular political persuasion have more sympathy for people they know little to nothing about from a different country with uncertain morals and views, rather than your own neighbors with whom you've lived peacefully your whole life. The cult of globalization has made sympathy and compassion for distant others more important than sympathy and compassion for your own kin.
1
I would venture to say that the root is not really white nationalism. White nationalism is the by-product of growing inequality across the West. Even in Sweden, which prides itself on having an equal society, inequality has been gradually increasing. People are starting to fight each other for the same resources - it's slowly becoming a zero-sum game as the ultra-rich take a growing share of the pie. Then, those same plutocrats nudge and say, "The immigrants/women/minorities etc. are taking your money, they are free-riding off the state." When resources become scarcer, it's natural to segment into groups and fight over them. What we all miss is that while we believe it's natives vs. foreigners, brown/black vs. white, women vs. men, gay vs. straight, it's not really. It's the plutocrats versus the rest of us, and we're all so distracted by each other that we forget who's really robbing us all.
There's a reason that the Civil Rights Movement took place during the 50's and 60's - it was a much more economically equal society than it is now, especially for the white population. They were economically secure, and therefore sharing wealth and expanding rights to minorities didn't seem like a problem. It's not that way anymore. The middle class is shrinking and standards of living are actually going down across the West. If we want social cohesion, we need to focus on income inequality. Without that changing, nothing will change.
4
this article is so typically elitist as to defy
description. every nation has the right to
protect it's borders from extremists who
would create havoc for the sake of whatever
misguided philosophy they espouse.
even people,like myself,who consider
themselves liberals,can understand why
governments must impose legitimate
screening, and,if necessary, restraints
on those who would do them harm.
not everyone can enter any western
country and claim benefits and citizenship.
traditions matter,customs matter and those
who refuse to assimilate must be denied
the privileges of living in our midst.
10
Your post is the taking of a position without context, this tactic has been used very effectively since 1980 to manipulate and undermine our society.
To address the issues of refugee migration one must start at the start and first state what took place and in what order. Then one can discuss the issues and the reactions to them as they happened honestly instead of dishonestly like your post which is a non sequitur since it is a position without context not a statement addressing a specific situation or event/s.
The situation was a Humanitarian Crisis created by GW Bush, Assad, Putin, Daesh and Erdogan in which millions of innocent people were displaced from their homes and trying to find safety. The German government in the person of Ms. Merkel offered Sanctuary to them. She expected the other nations of Europe to follow along since it was so obvious to her what was happening. But most of the other nations of Europe chose to be paranoid and did not welcome or willingly help these people.
The stirrings of trouble and terrorism are from decades old communities of immigrants within Europe not from outsiders or refugees. These communities it seems were never allowed to fully integrate with the "locals" and no one from either side ever acted effectively to solve this obvious problem.
Not even a century after seeing how easily humanity degrades into inhumanity when the right buttons are pushed . . . lesson not learned.
3
Who is America?
What does "great" mean?
I want America to be greater, depending on those answers.
1
"Do The Right Thing"
That makes anyone who follows it great regardless of who knows what they have done.
I agree with a point in this article White Nationalism mirrors radical Islamism. Like fascism and communism they become one in the same in the spectrum of politics, so do White Nationalists and radical Islam. So what do we do? There are legitimate concerns about both sides but each side has legitimate gripes, uncontrolled immigration without a method to assimilate causes many problems and blaming a whole group of people, for the sins of a few of them is wrong. Most Muslims are good folks, many folks who want some sort of immigration control and assimilation are good folks too. Unfettered immigration like Europe has and is currently implementing is disruptive and causes anxiety you can't deny that. Yes most of the immigrants are trying to find a better life, many are coming for the liberal welfare laws in Europe which is a huge magnet. Sensible controls on immigration, assimilation will calm the fears of those who see this as an invasion thus making the far right seem less appetizing. Doing nothing, calling people xenophobes or racists because they disagree with the current liberal immigration laws and welfare laws will not get folks to your side and thus create more problems. The middle is the way to go.
4
There is a lot of money to be had in fear. The voices of the Right, such as Fox and Breitbart, make a lot of money from hate and fear. American voters should never vote out of fear, yet there are a lot of scared and angry people out there due to the false news coming from these agencies.
Horace Greeley's often repeated "Go West young man" applies today. If you are looking for a place where white supremacists have been successfully met by a community which generally embraces rather than fears immigrants, come to California. The thriving California economy is testimony to the positive impact immigrants have made, from farmworker to the Silicon Valley elite.
1
This piece is full of dishonest metaphors and logically fallacious assumptions, including the a priori assumption of 'universal values,' implying Muslim immigrants share an epistemology with the values of European liberal democracy.
The dishonest metaphorical invocation the term 'white,' to describe Europeans in their ethnic homelands is crude and unsubtle--these "White nationalists" are not concerned about "immigrant blood," as the author obsessively claims, but about national cultural values.
Demographics will continue to shape the forces of power and dispossession at the national level.
6
People like the author like to mix up "refugees" and "immigrants". They appeal (at least here in Europe) to the sentiment of pity with refugees and try to canalise it towards immigrants, while thousands throw away their passports to declare themselves "Syrians" and even train for a Syrian accent in special "schools" (a story I have from a -formerly Syrian- interpreter).
And yes, there are many who do not agree that a country has to be "an icon of liberalism". Extremist Muslims will probably not take over European governments but there is a high probability for society and standard of living to approach that of Algeria or Egypt with millions of immigrants from Africa and the Middle East. That I consider too high a price for being lauded as an icon of liberalism.
10
Is it reasonable for me to lock the door to my home? I do not want strangers to wander in at all hours. Does that make me a bigot?
I would like us all to have a "live and let live" approach to our neighbors. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. If my new neighbor does not have that same philosophy, am I then obligated to adapt and join them in persecuting people they don't like? The newcomer has to make a choice. Will they "live and let live" or will they bring some other version of religious and ethnic intolerance with them? Why must we take that risk when there is no benefit to doing so?
8
White Nationalists could be thwarted by acknowledging their legitimate fears and grievances while denouncing their racist and dehumanizing words and actions. Rather than assuming that all flavors of multiculturalism have value, we should acknowledge that immigration can change a culture for the worse and that the size of this change is relative to the number of immigrants, their homogeneity, their lack of political and religious acquaintance with progressive, democratic norms, and their resistance to assimilation. A culture can be overwhelmed. If so, we are left with this nutcracker: Under these circumstances, what rights do current citizens have in determining the future direction of their country? Do they have the right to insist on small changes rather than large?
6
Sorry, I'm not buying what Sasha Polakow-Suransky is selling in his piece on the danger of "white nationalism" - in other words a dog whistle for concentrated prejudice against the canard of "white male privilege".
The religious and cultural cultist of radical and not-so-radical Islam will soon completely swamp and eviscerated the liberal, secular culture and tolerance of Europe. Many European nationalist, who are not just white, recognize this and are fighting to preserve their patrimony from being diminished and destroyed, often from within.
Here in America, we may not be facing as dire a threat from intolerant Islamist, yet the fracturing of community standards by secular extremist in the name of diversity and equity, is all just a not so subtle fix to move privilege from one group to another. Many "nationalist" - whites and others - see this for the scam it is. The harsher reality is its a mere distraction from the vast inequality between the 1% and their stooges in the next 9% (many of us NYT readers) v the rest of the 90%.
For good and bad, Western culture with its humanist ideas and principles is rightly our touchstone. Yes, it was widely spread via brutal and repressive colonialism. But it also had the ability to accept and absorb concepts from other cultures and continues to do so. Overall, the West, abetted by many beneficiaries of "white male privilege", has done more than any other culture to bring humankind to its current pinnacle of achievements.
6
Interpreting the defiance of French people towards Islamic outfits only through the prism of white nationalism is very dubious, considering the constant attacks against freedom and tolerance spreading here in particular districts against women, where patronizing, badmouthing, harassing and sometimes assaulting a girl for her attire or her alleged immoral behavior has become a standard. While it is fair to raise alarm on the trap of radicalization, has Ms Polakow-Suransky ever considered that the hardening of some people's position might originate from the fear of their country being stripped off enduring and secular values allowing everyone to live peacefully ?
Yes far-right is a threat. As are outbursts of islamo-fascism like 2014 demonstrations in Paris featuring thousands of youth from immigrant descent shouting "death to jews", or riots in the Sarcelles neighborhood resulting in tens of Jewish shops ransacked. Playing down one evil under the pretext that it is less pressing than the other is a short-term expediency taking us further away from an appropriate response.
4
Human beings are not to be trusted. When a nationalist paradigm grows, it inevitably foments an us against them, purist ideology. We know where that leads us. Our current leader, with no interest in lessons from anyone but himself, is ripe for a fruition of a dictatorial re-framing of the Presidency if no one stops him. I know that this is a leap considering our checks and balances, but where are they? So many lines have already been crossed with no consequence by this man and his people in office that I do not trust those who are supposed to check them. What saddens me more, is that Europe's toe is back in the water. Those who forget are doomed to repeat...
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/10/opinion/auschwitz-israel-holocaust.ht...®ion=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region
In conservative radio show I have listened some anchor saying ''Many of the immigrants are from Muslim countries, they don't like western culture, religion , civilization then why they want to immigrate to US and western countries? since there are many rich countries like Saudi, Kuwait, Qatar etc even in middle east.
Also it is not the question and concern how many they immigrated, it is more surprising to watch how they multiply. They produce 5-6 kids per family, sooner or later they easily outnumber population in local community where they immigrate.''
Some of the arguments they raised seems to be under debate, though it is against democratic norm and value.
3
To Mr Polakow-Suransky
Despite the chronic outrage towards Trump and his allies, the majority of Westerners really don't care about the underlying ideologies. They will vote with their bank account in mind, whether right wing or left wing.
Regarding France, nothing new under the sun. One need not be associated with the Islamic world to be rejected. The highly nationalistic and xenophobic Education National(iste) does a fine job indoctrinating young French minds to view the rest of the world with compassionate condescension. Woe to the foreigner who speaks French with an accent-- all to be tarred as unworthy of friendship with the French.
Despite this writer’s statements, there is no genuine population group in the West proclaiming “breathless warning(s) of pending Islamic conquests.” There are the same xenophobes, bigots, and cultural reactionaries we see in every society facing changes from immigration. Certainly we should recognize and act against those - minority - forces. But it disminishes us all to claim that some great part of our societies blindly opposes immigrants because of ethnic or racial hatred. That is simply not true. Cultures change slowly, and often that change comes in spurts. The West remains the bastion of liberal democracies and human rights. Improve ourselves always, but never shy away from acknowledging the profound Western liberties that we have and hold.
1
Democracy means that if immigration is not good for the native population, or the native majority, they can and should vote to make changes. Someone told to take a headcovering off her head is not a victim as a result of that; she is a victim of having been made to wear it by the medieval backwardness of the subculture in which she was raised, a subculture that should have been left behind in North Africa. Society does have to have some basic rules, and in the West, those must be the rules of the Englightenment and individual choice and freedom of speech, not group rights and state-sanctioned tribalism.
6
Those reluctant to evolve will drag us backwards. No thanks.
1
A good answer to French cultural purists is "focus on inclusion." Non-patronizing efforts to help immigrants assimilate into a new society probably more than pay for themselves. Even limits on face scarves could fit into such a program, and I have read about some European countries using such programs to ease the process of assimilation. These racist responses raise another question for immigrants -- assimilation into what? By the way, I find face scarves as offensive as the subordinate position of women in some Christian religions. If we want to out-law face scarves why not rule that Roman Catholics must allow women to be priests?
One would despair of ever overcoming racist group behavior and its consequences were it not apparent that racists find temporary political value in racial scapegoats based on alleged racial conflict. That is, until they need to appeal for help across racial divisions when they face the threat of other nationalists who may share the same skin color, but who are collectively more powerful than the racial nationalists. Historically, when white nationalists conflict, they quickly become nationalists, as the the winning side turns into a multi-racial nationalism in order to prevail.
Endless war in the Middle East is destroying the West. Millions of refugees are driven to Europe at the risk of their lives to escape the hell of war in Iraq and war in Syria and the disintegration of Libya caused mostly by Western interference and profiting Western corporations by weapons sales and the control of oil. Jihad is the biggest social movement in the ME, fueled by rage at the West. The sheer number of refugees, including some that become radicalized, stokes White Supremacy movements in Europe.
Interference in Latin America by the US like the failed War on Drugs and CIA efforts to suppress socialism has destabilized countries, promoted terrorism (governmental and criminal) and drives desperate people to escape hell by becoming cheap labor in the US. Instead of punishing US employers who profit from refugees we blame the refugees and stoke the fires of White Supremacy.
People aren't Good or Bad, they are both at the same time and always will be. Cooperation and generosity created great civilizations, the capacity for aggression defended them. Democracy is a balancing act with endless compromises. Racism, uncontrolled greed, misogyny, and authoritarianism are examples of winner-take-all human impulses that are innately undemocratic and must be controlled in a good society. We're headed for a tipping point.
I highly recommend Douglas Murray's "The Strange Death of Europe" for a look at immigration and it's attendant baggage (both good and bad) over the last 60 years. It's safe and in vogue to blame whites in general, but this is more a failure of leadership (on the left and the right) to articulate and build a humane system that balances the needs of refugees and economic migrants with the very rational desire of current naturalized citizens to raise their children in a manner consistent with their European / American / Western values, and to have a more stable immigration system where integration can occur at a manageable pace.
As an aside, the irony is heavy when the author imagines a white supremacist America where courts and constitutions are abolished, when there are dozens of actual Sharia courts already dispensing justice in the UK.
4
Immigration does not necessarily create problems, and it can be -- and usually is -- very beneficial. ILLEGAL immigration is a major problem, because these folks have not been vetted for security and economic issues, and overwhelmingly they are unskilled and impoverished, with a high likelihood of becoming dependent (seen it on the west coast). MASSIVE immigration (illegal or legal) in a short window of time, such as we have had over the last few decades, swamps American culture and not for the good. There are entire nations whose cultures are entirely or predominantly (fill in the blank -- Asian, New World "Hispanic/Latino," Middle Eastern, etc.). This nation does not need to be another one of them. Let's don't let American culture be diluted beyond recognition by massive immigration, to the point where the failed cultures the new immigrants were hoping to leave behind, are replicated here.
2
The commentary-reaction to this OpEd is particularly striking on two fronts: (i) the near-consistent invocation of homophobia and LGBT discrimination on the part of aliens coming to our shores, no doubt invoked by many of the same people that, only a few short years ago, would have railed against homosexuality as a perversion and fundamental threat to society, and (ii) the indigence to the author's alleged ignorance of cultural threats by the very same demographic groups now citing threat to their culture/values, whose very own ancestors were among the immigrants to this country that destroyed the indigenous peoples and indigenous cultures, where the latter were the true natives to this land long before white immigrants of an alien culture and value system showed up.
What both this OpEd and the commentary thereto tell us, is that hypocrisy knows no boundaries, and that the human capacity to rationalize and attempt to put cogent logic to beliefs stemming from irrational carnal fears, is limitless.
1
This interesting editorial was written by an elite globalist. The elite are people with little affection for their country and its culture. THey want a world without borders and without national culture. The Global elte are aided by the educational establishment which instills in a new generation of teachers the view that anything relating to the historical culture and civilization of the country they are living in,is evil and students must be taught to feel embarrassed about themselves, their culture and their race.
And yes the problem is Islam and Muslims. While native Germans, Americans and French etc.are asked not to parade their culture as it is offensive to Muslims and "we don't want to offend them" (never mind that we are asked to hide our culture to make these people feel welcome). But Muslims are never asked to "fit in" to our society but we are asked to show deference to theirs.
When Muslims become numerous in an area, they demand special treatment. Schools are asked to include Muslim Religious holidays into the school calendar. This is but one example of the problem. Many traditional school play are abandoned, Xmas is now a secular event, instead of Xmas Carols we hear Rudolph. Instead of Merry Xmas, it is Happy Holidays etc.
Nationalist want to preserve their language, culture, and traditional way of life people like this author want to tear it down. Thank goodness for leaders like Viktor Orban who will help Hungary and Europe preserve their past.
6
In the future in Europe, people will be clamoring to go to Hungary, Poland, the Czech Republic and a few other countries that denied entry to massive hordes of Muslim colonialists and economic opportunists from the ME and Africa. They will be the last remaining, authentic countries within Europe that kept their cultures intact. They will also be safer places to live.
1
The author does not provide any real substantive examples on how "White Nationalism is Destroying the West". I'm not seeing a new imperilment of our judicial system, a fraying of the majority's conscience, nor a loss of the average citizens' instinct to help someone when they need it, irrespective of their race. I'm not seeing our western democracy falling into some new habit of chaos, as white nationalism has been a blight floating over our country since its inception. It will rear its ugly head, to be sure, but however painfully slow going it may be, 'white hegemony' is on its way out. One only need look at modern pop music to see this is very much the case. However, there is a real danger of it being replaced with something potentially much worse; that of illiberal identity politics and increasingly polarizing rhetoric in the media, partisan and otherwise. I was lucky enough to be taught in a U.S. state that fully embraced the dream of Dr. King, cultivating in each of us the responsibility of progressively moving his vision forward. But people also have a right in this country to adopt foolish ideas! This includes the right to try to persuade other people to take on these bad ideas. If we get to a point in this country where you can't so much as voice an unpopular opinion on a subject for fear of being doxed or worse, then this encroaching threat on free speech will make for far more 'western destruction' than any isolated minority of white racists could hope for.
1
Overt religious symbolism should be tolerated but limited by common sense. Going about disguised in public is a public safety concern therefor face veils should be banned in public. The photos of burkinis I find on the internet do not cover the faces. They should be allowed. In fact, burkinis look like the full body swimming attire worn by sun-sensitive women in the USA.
1
No person has a right to enter another country- it is a privilege granted by the choice of the citizens and their government.
It is reasonable for citizens and the government to expect migrants to adopt the norms, folkways and general political outlook of the country they are migrating into. No foreign language broadcasters should be allowed on American TV- starting with Univision, etc.
That also means you dress appropriately- as in western clothes. That means you do not complain about the food being served in the school lunch. That means you learn the language and do not ghettoize yourself in a neighborhood that attempts to be like the "old country". You do not maintain a dual nationality and vote in foreign elections.
I was raised in the America that was taught the concept of the melting pot and still adhere to it. Were I to move to France or Germany, I would expect that I should learn and integrate into the culture and that starts with the language and the liberal, democratic values of the west. That is not racist, fill-in-the-blank phobic or whatever.
I encourage people to come to our country to become Americans without hyphens and the same should be true elsewhere. If you migrate to Japan you should as much as possible integrate into Japanese society- not create a subculture within it.
6
"Their ideology is especially dangerous because they present themselves as natives valiantly defending the homeland."
(...)
"If the influence of white nationalists continues to grow, they will eventually seek to trample the rights of immigrants and minorities and dismiss courts and constitutions as anti-democratic because they don’t reflect the supposed preferences of “the people.”"
Alright, this is a danger, well known for years. Anything but new. And now what?
Nothing but this single insight in this article. But this is the - felt - tenthousandth time this issue is adressed by an author - and only adressed as issue anything beyond. So nearly all of the articles in the recent years are also exhausted in only addressing this danger as you did here.
This doesn´t help. So some straight talk is required:
- Your article does not give any approach to tackle one single problem. Not one. Neither the problems caused by right-wingers nor those raised by immigrants. None. Is this the whole content of your extensive book also?
- What´s "destroying the West" is it´s intellectual disability to solve detected problems in an aproppriate way in the recent years. There are still a lot of hindering factors. FIXING is required badly. Countless suitable proposals are welcome. None of these will be deemed of superfluous even if it will not work.
- Only lamenting is the perfect way for NOT taking effective countermeasures.
In October 2017 a sheer "next lament" is just a waste of time.
Let's be clear that it's white MALE nationalism that is the driving force here. You see and hear women shouting racist taunts. but by far, this is a male-dominated movement. And their venom is aimed not just at non-white skinned people, but at women as well. It's a lack of tolerance for displacement of their "power" in decades past.
Much of the nativism and nationalistic trends in Europe and in America stem from one unsettling fact. Lack of integration. Allowance of foreigners to practice their own brand of nationalism within countries. No single example is more blatant than the announcement in Spanish whenever you call your bank or government or medical provider. It is essentially saying do not integrate, stay in your own communities. By not making these communities to become citizens with a distinct native language and rules of law, we as a nation encourage foreign nationalism on our shores and nativism within our own established populations. Take a poll sometime. Ask how many people like having to listen to instructions given in Spanish? We also encourage places such as china town or little Havana. This is only fracturing our culture not making it stronger through diversity. Europe is much worse. They Park immigrants into apartment high rises and never care whether or not these citizens have a job or a life. Integrate if you come here. Do not wave your foreign flag or practice your foreign language skills here. That is why there is nationalism rising in this country and others.
3
BY ignoring the effects of mass migration, clashing cultures, and severe income inequality, western leaders managed to create an existential crisis among their citizens, who fear their cultures are being erased and that their lives are threatened and unstable. What did they imagine would happen?
This is the culmination of once in a millennia arrogance and stupidity on the part of our leaders and the future is tenuous.
I wonder how Native Americans read this article in view of their own history of the last 300 years. They may not have been "replaced" but certainly killed, abused, decimated and oppressed.
The political, religous and economical "refuges" arriving in America at that time might not have had such intentions upon arrival but the consequences and facts can be looked at today. One has to understand history to shape the future. Calling people white supremacists and deplorables will most certainly not do the trick.
The "west" is but a euphemism for the civilization created by (white) Europeans in Europe and then exported to North America in the last 2000 years.
So to say that white nationalism is destroying the west is a contradiction. Is like implying the water is destroying the river (because it is not lava or some other non-H2O material).
In the last 50 years, the west has generously opened itself to people from other continents and of other races welcoming them as guests and refugees. From articles like these, one surmises that the guests from the rest of the world no longer appreciate their hosts hospitality and they want to take over "the west" and pretend it belongs to them.
4
Fear, Hatred, and Bigotry wears many faces. But the face they wear the most often is our own.
1
I find it ironic that a nation of immigrants, such as ours, now has a deep and dangerous anti-immigrant strain. I don't think it reflects majority thinking, not yet, but it will the longer Trump and his Republican enablers stoke the resentments stoke white tribalism. They have made angry white men a bigger threat to our democracy than activists of color or Islamic terrorists, for they fuel resentment in both.
1
The hypocrisy is boundless by these nations whose only advantage over the rest of the world was their early weaponization of gunpowder, which allowed them to invade and systematically destroy, corrupt, or subordinate other continents' people, cultures, and resources for centuries. None of the colonizing nations of Europe could possibly have achieved their standards of living over the past six hundred years without the unrepentantly brutal murder, abuse, exploitation, and destruction of other civilizations.
The fact that any western nation has the unmitigated nerve to complain about its cultural degradation from "foreigners" on its shores---many of whom arrive from the very geography that the same western country ruined through foreign military, economic or political chicanery---is the only "problem" here. When the French, Germans, Portuguese or British arrived in East Africa, they did not consider their inability or disinclination to master Swahili as any disqualification for their continued presence or subjugation of that entire coast. While this double standard continues, the west can never assert anything even resembling moral authority before the world stage.
Please enough with the identity politics. It is condescending and offensive to many whites who in fact care about immigrants. Nary a word in the entire essay about the identify politics of the nations from where these people are trying to escape. Where is their moral responsibility for allowing these nations and dictatorships to continuously crush human rights? Is Democracy too difficult a concept or are certain cultures unable to count. Yes, that is a direct insult. Just as identity politics is a insulting crutch for calling everyone else a racist and thus enforcing a false sense of intellectual superiority.
2
I am always bemused by articles where we attempt to map and understand human interaction on an international scale, like one perspective can capture a very complex interaction. Its akin to voting; essentially a yes or no, when the reasons you vote that way are complex.
Some of the reason white supremacists got a foothold in Germany again is from bots, trolls and internet baloney. We apparently now know how to weaponize that sector of the population that has very narrow, bigoted interests.
The approach is not political, but ideological. Do we approach those within our country with compassion, or with fear and ridicule?Even as Germany limits its intake of refugees, is it an actor who is wise and benevolent, or a howl from the lunatics on the right fringe? No, it is still Merkel at the helm.
You don't have to like everybody who lives near you. But keep that to yourself. Personal dislikes -- of bikinis or burkinis -- are part of the human condition, sometimes a product of ignorance or unreflective bias, sometimes just a matter of taste.
But public policy is different. And immigration policy is complex, especially in a world of billions of people, many living (not due to anything that they have done except to be born in an unfortunate circumstance) in miserable conditions. Comprehensive immigration policies along with global efforts to improve conditions everywhere (along with easier access to birth control) is needed.
Where are our representatives in Congress? Why are they not dealing with this (except in their tweets)? Failure of policy is leading to mobs taking control. Democracy needs government!
65
Government is elected. Where is the 48% who doesn't vote in the USA? Democracy needs VOTERS! ...
...and complainers willing to do the job themselves by running for office. Interested?
While there are nuanced aspects to the threats of terrorist activity and the real challenges confronting Western countries from the disruption of technology, and the changing economic landscape, Polakow-Suransky's observation, "White nationalism is in many ways a mirror image of radical Islamism. Both share a nostalgic obsession with a purist form of identity: for one, a medieval Islamic state; for the other, a white nation unpolluted by immigrant blood" is critical.
What we confront is a rising radical tribalism driven by excessive fear of those who are different. Equally concerning is the destabilizing of institutions that moderate excess, and support core constitutional values. This is the strategy espoused by Steve Bannon and others of his ilk in the white supremecist landscape.
Sounding an alarm is important, but the effective response to strident extremism involves more than a louder, more strident counter argument. It requires a steely resolve, consistent engagement with communities confronting change, seriously responding to the real social and economic stresses of the times, and common-sense solutions to the real impacts of large numbers of immigrant peoples. It is as much a discipline as a debate and one that brave citizens must embrace.
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1
So does blaming Western civilization for anything and everything wrong with the world, along with a multicultural moral relativism that claims no culture (and to its logical conclusion no person) can be judged more or less superior to any other.
1
We thought the Civil War was over but it is not. Residual racism persists. Richard Nixon recognized this when he developed the Southern Strategy promising to fight against civil rights if Southerners voted Republican...and they have voted Red ever since. Trump has adopted the same hateful approach to winning over voters. There is nothing new in the rise of White Nationalism in the United States.. it is a resurgence of a dark period of racism in American history that we though we had overcome.. Clearly we have not. It is the motor of today's Republican Party.
2
This is precisely what we're witnessing from the NFL. Ditka underscored how indefensible the owners' position is with clueless, crude, and transparent paraphrasing. These players, first of all, are not paid to dance to anyone's patriotic bottom line. The players can hopefully summon the courage and common cause as adults and professionals by kneeling as a team. Just wait for and watch the NFL's position change if one entire team takes a knee. Other teams will follow. The NFL from Trump's example (or barely implied directives) has disgraced itself and divided its fan base.
i speak arabic, turkish, persian and urdu, but am a greek. politically, i'm on the left. i also want to be clear and say that i am not looking forward to a little country like greece with a population under ten million be saddled with a large muslim minority. period. the last thing the county needs is to be swamped with an ever growing population of conservative new arrivals. when people integrate successfully, it serves to make a society stronger, but when integration results in large populations of sullen isolation, the constant friction only increases xenophobia. how can greece, which always was friendly towards foreigners now be put in this very difficult position. i don't know how it is where you live sasha...
8
"Today’s version of the argument is: if you have foreign blood and don’t behave appropriately, then you don’t get a passport."
That argument is actually this:
"In evolutionary biology, reciprocal altruism is a behavior whereby an organism acts in a manner that temporarily reduces its fitness while increasing another organism's fitness, with the expectation that the other organism will act in a similar manner at a later time."
The question we are asking these people seeking passports is "If I help you now, will you act in a similar manner at a later time?" That seems like a reasonable question to ask.
2
Ms. Polakow-Suransky's essay is astute. It is regrettable that tens of millions of Americans will reject it without even reading it, because of her name. This country has always been afflicted with a nasty streak of racism, anti-Semitism, nativism, and all that. Mass and social media, which ought to be a source of enlightenment, have mainly exacerbated our worst natures.
Liberal democracy is indeed at great risk. The last time this nation was in such dire straits we had secession and a civil war. These are both possible again, and could turn out worse this time.
What is to be done? We must recognize what is the central challenge of our age. Neither climate, poverty, disease, nor the nuclear threat can be addressed by illiberal nations. We must employ culture, education, media, entertainment, religion, and spirituality to appeal to our better angels. hat is
2
"Close the borders and expel unwanted foreigners." There aren't a lot of people in Europe who would argue with the second part of this statement ("expel unwanted foreigners"). The only issue would be how one defines "unwanted." Regarding the first part of the statement, I think very few people in Europe want to completely close their borders. Instead they want their governments to snap out of their multicultural daze and pay close attention to who is being let in and in what numbers. The days of virtually unlimited, open-door immigration seem to be rapidly drawing to a close, and this is not a bad thing.
3
I think the author has left out the ultimate cause of the unrest chronicled: the US-led bombing and destruction of the countries from which so many refugees have fled.
American exceptionalism normalized by a compliant media trumps all.
1
What we learn from science is this: (1) there are no "races", all humans share the same basic DNA code and our genetic similarities are so great that in reality we all form a single "race", (2) culture, like language, is not transmitted through DNA, it is completely determined by education. This means that the simple movement of people across the globe is of no consequence for humanity or civilization. Its not people that matter, it's ideas. What matters is education and communication, and on that front, western culture is winning. Talk to the children of immigrants: wherever their family came from, the vast majority of them fully embrace our ideals - don't be fooled by skin tone and hair color. Immigration is not a problem if we have a strong education system, this is the power of assimilation. The forces of racism and nationalism don't want to assimilate newcomers, they want to divide and ostracize; they claim to offer a solution to immigration, but in fact they are causing the problem, or making it worse.
White Nationalism is destroying the West?
The problem for the West, indeed for all the most advanced societies East and West and South whether you want to speak of America or European nations or Israel or Russia or China or Japan is that for all advancement and whatever politics such societies have not been able to rise out of having identity along racial, ethnic, religious, cultural lines.
Which means immigration taken too far, in great quantity, and especially from multiple sources, cannot help but create a backlash. The multicultural society as currently envisioned is a failed project. Indeed America as typically envisioned, as a place of multiple religious, racial, ethnic, cultural identity, is a failed project. The more various types of people gather in one place the more they have to give up their fundamental identities they bring with them. They must interbreed as rapidly as possible, dispense with religion, apply great art to combining the best of cultural heritages they bring with them. In short they must work together in creation of new and fundamental identity and nation.
Indeed probably all we mean by modern nations were originally formed out of various tribes with fundamental identities which were lost over time. This happened naturally, often violently, was not a smooth process. Even the most advanced nations today cannot make this process smooth. That is the true goal for the advanced nations today. For natives and immigrants alike. We are all wanting.
These articles that over-simplify the concerns in the West as people respond to a vastly changing world--a world transitioning away from the colonial power and wealth that have shaped the past 500 years of Western Civilization--do everyone a disservice.
I have long argued (to those I know) that Europe really shouldn't take in immigrants--their social structures aren't designed to accommodate them. The U.S. has a hard time doing so for similarly bigoted reasons, which are predictable human reactions by the way--I don't know of a nation on Earth that would take almost any significant number of refugees or immigrants without causing tensions. The U.S., however, has a history of integrating immigrants--once they make it past the gauntlet. Other nations do not.
Terrorism, racism (a word I hate to use--there is only one race), these are not the biggest problems or greatest concerns. We speak of nations and now globalism, but all politics are local and just as the atom is the basic unit of all matter, communities are the basic unit of society. People have a right to protect their communities and way of life.
It would also be nice if "we" acknowledged the challenges ahead: climate change, post-colonial economy and resolved the major inequities that already exist in our societies. Here's another idea. Instead of sensationalizing the NFL debate, include the numbers black men shot by police vs. white men under the same conditions. Stop playing the extremes!
The point of immigrating to a new country is to become part of that culture, if you want to live in France respect and adopt their values. The French and other European countries have histories going back centuries.
There is a problem if immigration means making areas of France versions of Middle East, Africa etc and devoid of French values. What the left does not want to face is that they have a view that culture is what anyone wants to make it. What White Nationalists are reminding them is that is not the case. It is also worth noting that the push for open borders is orchestrated by global multinational corporations seeking to expand their markets, with little concern for native cultures. The immigrants come they send money home then the global multinational wants them to buy its consumer products in their home country. The best way to rein in immigration is to rein in global multinational corporations.
1
I have an apartment in Nice. I was educated in France and so, I am as liberal as they come and count a number of Magrebians as close friends. When I go to the store however, I think I am in the magreb. Women dressed in black dragging a bunch of kids who do not speak French. We do not see that in the US, anywhere. France had colonies and protectorates in Africa and the independence negotiations included a poorly designed immigration. So we have quite a few in Nice. The burkini has nothing to do with religion, it is a sign of a refusal of integration. In Rome do like the romans. Here I do not speak French but maybe I should (for religious reasons of course) since my Mexican wife is sometimes reminded to stop speaking Spanish here in Texas!
5
It is not the "white nationalism" that is destroying "the West". It is the tribalism that divides people into East and West, black and white, rich and poor, us and them, which is destroying the world. Unfortunately, editorials like this one don't help at all, but merely reinforce the already deep social divisions. As long as we continue to see people as being different from us, there is a tendency to regard them as being subhuman. This is the real crisis of humanity. Despite all the technological progress of the last 200 years, we seem to have become more entrenched into tribalism fueled by nationalism, religion, racial identity, etc. Only when we look past the superficial differences, and start to treat the whole of humanity as being one, will there be any real progress made.
What the West is made of is a conglomerate of cultures that share a common ideal and that has leaned towards liberalism for a long time.
We are used to all kinds of freedom and we have a common history that created our culture.
Our kids are free and safe to roam the world, take their own decisions and explore whatever they want as the chose to with little or nor restrictions but to understand that one's freedom ends where someonelse's freedom is concerned.
Nearly no restrictions by religion or ideology have become the norm in most Western societies - with the exception of the US.
Of course, one needs a totally harmless scarecrow as a bogey man for "intellectual disputes", one that does not fight back and will not fight back when addressed directly.
So nationalism has become the enemy of the armchair revolutionists.
Easy to criticise and no harm done as in most cases even nationalists in the West are harmless.
Yes, then long came Trump and all the sewers spilled their guts.
And yes, people like Trump are a problem but not one that will change too much as they are simply part of our culture.
So even the era Trump will go by and we all hope that he'll not press a red button - so we can still clean up.
But the real white elephant in the room is another issue, a cult that will bring back religious restrictions and laws in everyday's life.
It has nothing to do with nationalism.
That is the Middle Ages knocking on a door they have been kicked out in the West a long time ago.
2
The bulk of angry comments here managed to offered evidence supporting the article's main claim. Or as Pogo wisely said, We have met the enemy and he is us.
Everyone agrees that no culture In the 21st century can exist in isolation. The problem is agreeing how to define roles and responsibilities. This is no different from being a part of a local community while being a part of a larger community, like a state, country, and now all humankind. If you have a conflict with a neighboring community, would you build a wall? Obviously not. This reinforces differences and leaves conflict unresolved. Think of it on a personal level: one has to do the work for real progress. Let's not be the culture that leaves the hard work for a future generation. And please stop reinforcing label identities! It is forces good people to support the wrong leaders.
Yes, ethnic/cultural hatred is destroying the West. Remedies seems lacking. The author is mute on this point. Leadership (e.g. Merkel) is important, but how to elect enlightened leaders like her elsewhere?
1
A cause of friction in Europe is that white people are encouraged to disown their past because their ancestors are now considered to be white supremacists. A black British lawyer recently demanded that a statue of Lord Nelson in London be demolished. Apparently, Nelson supported slavery, even though he did not own any slaves. Nelson is usually celebrated becuase he was a war hero who died fighting and defeating Napoleon in 1805. Maybe it will take another generation before there is another attempt to airbrush him from history.
Brits have been told by their metropolitan elite that they have to change and embrace multiculturalism, but many don't want to. Others are concluding that they will never be able to appease certain immigrant groups. There could be trouble ahead.
3
Comparing the ban of burkinis with extreme-right or fascists movements is missing the point. While I agree the rise of extremism and populism in the West is the threat to our democracies, comparing the bans of burkinis with right-wing extremism is inappropriate. The wear of burkinis is a political movement, a part of a creeping jihadism or Wahabism movement inside the French society. We never saw any burkinis ever in any of the beaches in the south of France. What we see now is a tiny minority of 3 generation, not even first or second generations, turning back, or regressing, to a culture more appropriate to Saudi Arabia than France. While it is their choice, one must be aware this is a rather odd way to integrate into a society by replicating what seems to be more of a custom born from a conservative Wahhabist society. In some areas, women are forced to wear the veil not to be insulted or threatened. That is the sad reality of the world we are living in. In parts of every city, women are being insulted, whistles at because they have chosen to wear 'unappropiate' clothing. While banning burkinis is certainly not helping to soothe tensions, it is meant to contain what is a creeping anti-liberal political, more than religious, movement in a liberal society.
6
This "crisis" is happening because the Middle East is a basket case, and Western Europe, in addition to being logistically the closest place for refugees to flee to, offers cultural benefits that the Middle East never did.
There are lessons here, if anyone cares to see them. First, a very strong case could be made that theocracies function badly as governing states. Second, in spite of its claims to the contrary, Islam is mired in medievalism and desperately needs its own "Protestant Reformation".
Third, and most provocative, perhaps Imperialism wasn't such a bad thing. If we still had it, there would be no Syrian refugee crisis because there would be no Syrian refugees. Western armies would have gone to Syria and created stability so that Syria would be livable. How would this have been accomplished? With great violence and loss of life. What is happening now? Great violence, loss of life, and a massive refugee crisis that threatens the stability of the west, at least according to this writer.
My father once told me that history would come to regard the end of the Pax Britannica as a great tragedy. I used to scoff. I don't any more.
1
This article itself is part of the problem. It lists a parade of "horribles", but it does not ask in any meaningful way why this is occurring. Nor, more importantly, does Polakow-Suransky engage with the fundamental issue, namely why liberal democracy has lost its broad allure.
Where have the liberal elites gone wrong in recent decades? Why do they currently seem incapable of presenting a vision that inspires and attracts more people rather than fewer? Why have the liberal masses gone from looking outward with passion and pride by landing a man on the moon to looking self-absorbingly inward at a little screen that pretends the virtual is reality?
It is not sufficient to simply blame the bad guys for being bad. Rather, we need to provide an alternative that deals with how people actually live their lives, not how we wish some day they will live their lives. It also does not help to lay all the problems confronting liberal democracy at the feet of white nationalism, as if it weren't for white nationalists China, Saudi Arabia, and the Congo would be embracing "Western" values. Nor does it help to lump all white nationalists together, as if Scottish nationalists and the supporters of Marine Le Pen -- or even Donald Trump -- have the same values and agendas.
What needs to be discussed more in these pages is not what white nationalists do wrong but what we can do to provide a credible alternative.
1
By 2020 at least 60% of our nation will be people of brown skin. We whities need to solidly understand this concept. It isn't a threat, just a reality of our culture. Won't it be interesting when we are a minority? I'm not so sure that the "influence of white nationalists will continue to grow." On the contrary, I feel that we will need to work together culturally; to be more inclusive and stop using color or race to excuse poor behavior. Why can't we welcome the needed changes that lie ahead? Why can't we surrender to the beauties and joys that come from being open and honest and loving with others. Sound naive? Not really.
Some of my greatest joys in life are the memories of being thrust into a situation with people of vastly different backgrounds and culture. I became a minority, and as scripture says, "they took me in". I realized fairly quickly that all peoples of the earth have the same needs: food, shelter, love of their children and family, a need for mutual cooperation, pride in their work, a love for simple pleasures, a sense of honesty and integrity.
These situations have been humbling and instructive. In the rear view mirror, I see that they have been blessings.
1
This article paints with too broad a brush. In an open society every sort of idea is going to exist and each will find political traction on a rotating basis related to events of the time. The world currently has an Islamic fundamentalist problem, the politics of nations react. This is normal social ecology it seems to me, however dismaying and ugly in detail. The world has had a period with an authoritarian & cruel Catholic problem too. If the people of the New World could have kept out Spanish Catholic immigrants they would have, and today's liberals would applaud that. The same goes for the Church of English in Ireland. Eventually Catholic power learned to play nice, or at least nicer. If and when Islamic radicals become yesterday's problem, the backlash will too.
PC liberals have a constant immediate demand to own the power to define social problems and demand those definitions be accepted as gospel. I am a liberal and a defender of progressive values. On the other hand as I understand history religious thinking has always been lie-based, and a danger to & anchor on social progress. I don't believe in protecting superstition under law. What am I destroying?
2
How about that immigrants to Western countries should adopt Western culture? Completely. If one immigrates to a Western country as a full time resident, it follows that the Western country (and its culture rooted in the Enlightenment) is better than the immigrant's country of origin. And so to keep it that way, the immigrant must adopt the Western culture. Simple, really.
1
Perhaps a better phraseology is to replace "white nationalism" with "global vs. local", specifically the ethos of those who think and act with sympathy towards 'global' as opposed to the ones of 'local' persuasion. Being a trend that developed over the last few decades more so than in the past, "global vs local" pitted the folks working in the global market and at ease living amongst folks or different ethnic and race backgrounds against the ones who 'stayed home', the ones steeped in cultural mores that changed little over generations. East Europeans suffered from the isolation imposed by the Iron Curtain with the fears it created, so yes, the Hungarians, Poles, Czechs and Slovaks had reason to resist the waves of immigrants while the Balkan nations not quite so, as their history was entangled with Islam to a certain degree.
"Global vs. Local" should become the form of expression as opposed to "white nationalism", for it is based mostly on economic fears - a compelling factor - and not on religious threats or other frail motives which are claimed all too often. History shows that everywhere where cities or regions allowed the mix of ethnic, racial and religious groups the results were spectacular, therefore the "global" proved to work well. It was the predominance of "local" ethos with its basic fear of "others" that fulminated in rejection of the unknown, for the greater loss of all, thus helding evolution hostage.
We should remember that white nations in Europe and USA, are to some extent to blame for many of the horrific conditions now being experienced by people in many African nations. The conditions they are now fleeing. The explanation to the shared blame is colonialism. White European countries invaded and colonized large parts of Africa, disenfranchising the people living there. They raped the land, took the resources available, and enslaved the people. The resources that the European nations took from the African lands included; raw materials like timber, ores, diamonds and other precious stones. Most of which was extracted, under horrible conditions, using essentially enslaved native labor. This extraction of raw material enriched the European nations, and left very little in the native lands. Many African countries didn’t gain their independence from their European occupiers until last century, and when the Europeans finally were forced to leave the left the lands in shambles. It was very difficult to create governments capable of capitalizing on the remaining resources. The Europeans also preferred to sponsor leaders friendly to continued European exploitation. We should not blame them for trying to improve their lot, but remember that we have gained from their sacrifices over many decades (think De Beers and diamonds in South Africa). Let’s not hate these people, let’s return some of the wealth that we have taken from them.
1
Excellent article but needs a historical correction: White supremacists did not slip below the surface in the US after the Emancipation Proclamation. They continued to slaughter black troops or reenslave them till 1865, when they launched an insurgency, led by the KKK, and eventually regained power all over the old Confederacy, starting with the withdrawal of federal troops in 1876. From that time, white supremacists governed the entire South and much of the North for nearly 100 years, reinstituting slave-like labor conditions (share-cropping, forced prison labor) and refusing basic civil rights to most African Americans. Those rights were partially restored after the CIvil Rights struggles of the 50s, 60s and 70s, but after perhaps one generation of eclipse the white supremacists are charging back. In sum: in the 400 years of African American history, the experience of even partial civil equality has marked at most 40 of those years, and is now in serious retreat. White supremacy--alas--has been the norm, and we may be finding our way back there as we speak.
2
Interesting editorial,...at least until mention of 'dwindling demographics'. It's not so much westerners' dwindling. Rather, until the islamist doctrine of exploding demographics is addressed, without resorting to accusations of cultural insensitivity, these nationalist parties will continue to expand their influence. Practical solution: no Kindergeld (ie birth subsidy) beyond the third child, irregardless of religious, ethnic or national origin.
A rather small group of separatists who choose to live in the outlines of Idaho do not bother me, I'm glad they are not sprinkled throughout out general society. As a nation we either live as one, or die as separatists, Who in their right mind would choose two to three years of freeze dried meals over living in an orderly, diverse society? I say, let them go and try to start society from page one...they will find that they either be in heaven or cooperating to make what made the United States great in the first place. Illusions do not equal reality.
I like the article.
But I was startled by some of the "Readers' Picks" that received considerable support. Trending are the ideas Islamists can't assimilate, that they're going to import (further) oppression of women, they're going to join those who are intolerant of gays, and regard those of differing religious beliefs as heretics (and of course we'll have none of that). Some seem to be opposing immigration in general.
One writer says that wariness of Islamists is common sense. Clearly wariness in general may be common sense, but the article isn't about mere wariness.
The article is about prejudice, animosity, hatred, persecution, and irrational fears; it's about those poisonous attitudes pervading what we tout as liberal democracies; it's about those attitudes becoming legitimized by the ascendency of Trump, by the open proclamations of Nazism and anti-Semitism, and generally by the growth of white supremacy in the U.S.; it's about the rise of the likes of Le Pen and xenophobic parties in western Europe.
Certainly the safety and rights of the indigenous populations should be reasonably secured, and our laws and institutions are strong enough to withstand the assimilation of immigrants from any clime, and in the case of refugees, common humanity demands support and some sacrifice.
What's at risk are our liberties and values. If an innocent 3rd generation French woman can be legally compelled to remove her veil, it's the veil of white supremacy that's being lifted.
1
One important aspect of this is that the US and Europe have done too little to help the countries like Syria to be free and democratic and peaceful so that the people don't have to leave and become refugees. Also, the people of Latin American countries are fleeing violence and gangs and poverty. The US should be helping these people in their countries so that they don't need to leave.
I'm going to posit another point that isn't expounded on at all in this article: all of those scary immigrants are from countries that the West colonized and/or invaded. The West has for 500 +years plundered the Americas, Africa, and Asia. These conditions breed instability such that people will emigrate at whatever cost. The complex of colonialism, global political and economic forces/elements have made these conditions possible. We complain about Salafists/Islamists in the West, but we, specifically the United States, have allied ourselves with a client regime that exports extremist Wahhabism worldwide, Saudi Arabia. When we the West intervene to secure our interests, both political and pecuniary (which at present seem one and the same), the conditions are created to facilitate insecurity, both political and economic, and the prime directive of the human species is to survive at all costs. If we didn't want large swathes of the population emigrating to the West, we really should've never destabilized these countries generations ago. This is blowback, folks: totally unavoidable.
The solution: stabilize these home countries, facilitate emigration back to them, and by that means, disempower these dangerous right-wing/fascist movements that are gathering power like it was Germany pre-1940s. Otherwise, it’s going to get REAL ugly.
The past is prelude, folks.
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If one ignores, for a moment, tribe, race and religion, and considers only compression of more people into less habitable space, with less food on the tables, it is clear that every country on Earth will in the coming decades be subjected to increasing explosion of xenophobia. Consider first the domestic refugees from this year of ten hurricanes and fires now raging in the American west; then the hoards fleeing drought and famine into Europe, and the millions of south Asians displaced by unprecedented floods. The same resentment and resistance is evident, without the need for religious contrast, among native families in East Hampton, New York, toward American immigrants to their town. Population increase and climate change will stoke these movements worldwide, first like the distinct fires in California, then, as low-lying major cities are inundated, society wide, with competition for space and wealth intensifying. Benevolent welcome is a luxury of plenty. Whites in this country who see themselves in privation have already given us Trump. There is much worse to come, domestically and internationally. Do not envy the young.
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When a particular facet of a society is threatened, they congregate in preservation. Most societies, ie: countries, that are overwhelmingly homogenous, work the best for their citizens. Even Mother Theresa's Germany has begun to stare at their naval as they say. It is just common sense.
Canada has already become much admired because of Justin Trudeau . Canada has shown that multiculturalism can exist and thrive. It has now added an other feather to its cool image by electing a 38 years old turban wearing young Sikh as the leaders of a Federal party who may in the future become the Prime Minister . Canadian economy is growing and Canada is becoming a new hub of technology and innovation. Many tech companies are planning to shift their operations and Canada is attracting capital and talent from across the world. But after the election of Donald Trump, the dormant fringe nationalist elements seems to have woken up as can seen in the comments columns of their media stories.
Isn't the goal of White Nationalism to destroy existing institutions? They have slipped by mainstream institutions using social media, by hiding money in untraceable "international" bank accounts, through the growth of "mega" companies which cross borders freely, by encouraging displacement of populations through poverty, war and oppression and by making false comparisons about religions. Social institutions in the 1920's and 1930's were feckless in their approach to the rise of the right wing who used many similar tactics. The Right Wing has now improved on the approaches used by the despots of that era using current methods of media communication (like FB) with the greatest skill. Are we too timid to recognize their new methods and to stand up to White Nationalism in the 21st Century?
It is not enough to point out something is wrong, one must contend with the fact it exists, particularly if it is popular. Some art, some sophistication is required. It's not simply going to go away. Sasha opposes one absolute - opposition to all immigration - with another - immigration as an unqualified good regardless of the means and the rate of such. Against absolute prejudice towards immigrants he thrusts absolute prejudice towards the native born. They are racist so not fully human, of no worth, counting for nothing. The anti-racist is exposed as racist.
Ethnic nationalism is problematic everywhere. "White" nationalism - particularly in immigrant nations like the United States and Australia - is especially perverse. But I can vouch for not all of those against immigration to Oz being "white" - some are of non-European descent, immigrants themselves in decades past, though the recent past in comparison to the first "white" settlers. Whether "white" or not, they're not usually against immigration altogether, but concerned only about the means of and the rate of immigration.
Suggesting there's no rate of immigration at which it becomes unacceptable is as perverse as "white" nationalism. You can always have too much of a good thing, and destroy that which enjoys the good that comes from having it. One of the reasons the US has become a democracy in name only is not yet "white" nationalism, but rather not respecting that liberalism must have limits or it becomes illiberal.
Re-write! Re-write! "You can have too much of a good thing, even be destroyed by over-enjoyment of the good that comes from having it. The main reason the US has become almost a democracy in name only, is not "white" nationalism, but rather not respecting that liberalism must respect limits or it can become illiberal."
For instance free speech is good, but lack of restrictions on hate speech and false speech is bad. Economic liberty is good but insufficient taxation, representation and regulation is bad. The right to own a firearm is good, but insufficient restriction of the type of firearm you can own is bad. I could go on.
I see no attempt to acknowledge that burkinis and veils are not neutral pieces of clothing--they are instruments to physically restrict women--as are, it bears saying, stiletto heels and miniskirts. Culture wars don't always follow tidy narratives of freedom versus nationalism--not when your freedom might mean my oppression.
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