As an aside, does anyone know where his barber went to school ?
3
Haircuts R Us an LLC whose principle partners are Larry, Mo and Curly.
2
It may be that I am simply dense and have no understanding of the conomics involved so in my ignorance this deal strikes me as one from which few beyond the owner and his coterie will prosper.
The residents of Nevada just got stiffed and it is clear who held the stick.
The residents of Nevada just got stiffed and it is clear who held the stick.
1
Thanks for the Oakland shout-out.
Earlier this year the SF Giants requested a tax break because the property value of their stadium site had (miraculously) gone down in value. Don't know if the politicians laughed along with most of the rest of us.
Earlier this year the SF Giants requested a tax break because the property value of their stadium site had (miraculously) gone down in value. Don't know if the politicians laughed along with most of the rest of us.
Here's hoping the good citizens of San Diego have more sense than the Las Vegas suckers. I doubt anyone in SD will relish going to Vegas to pay higher taxes to support the hated Raiders. Good luck with that Of course, the name should change--how bout, the Las Vegas Gamblers (
1
The irony is that Oakland is booming right now - lots of construction due to many companies desiring less costly offices than available in SF or Silicon Valley; lots of tech employees moving to Oakland for same reason. The Warriors are on the verge of leaving from the arena next door. None of that justifies what is happening in Nevada but it partly explains why many in Oakland don't see a reason to subsidize the Raiders.
There is one flaw in the criticism of the analysis of tourists coming to Las Vegas by air for a football game. For as long as I can recall - going back to the late 70s/80s when I happened to live there - over 50% of the visitors are driving in by car/bus from southern California and Arizona - so it is reasonable to expect a large number of potential fans will travel to Las Vegas to see an NFL game. That by itself is not enough to justify the subsidy but that is probably more of a positive than its critics contend.
There is one flaw in the criticism of the analysis of tourists coming to Las Vegas by air for a football game. For as long as I can recall - going back to the late 70s/80s when I happened to live there - over 50% of the visitors are driving in by car/bus from southern California and Arizona - so it is reasonable to expect a large number of potential fans will travel to Las Vegas to see an NFL game. That by itself is not enough to justify the subsidy but that is probably more of a positive than its critics contend.
1
Corporate welfare is alive and well. It's time to end it as we know it, and start making billionaire moochers pay for their own toys. The taxpayer once again, gets the shaft from the corporate elite.
2
Maybe Las Vegas will get an Olympics?
1
Another example of the Trump model pirate economics: get away with what you can. You would think the *real* republicans would object to this form of sleight-of-hand taxation?
2
The same people who complain that the government forces them to buy health insurance have no problem at all with being forced to pay for a stadium, whose seats are as unaffordable to them as their health care premiums and out-of pocket costs.
I would venture to guess that most of the seats will be bought by casinos to comp their customers.
Great! Just take the cost of the stadium out of my taxes!
What a bunch of suckers and marks sport fans are.
I would venture to guess that most of the seats will be bought by casinos to comp their customers.
Great! Just take the cost of the stadium out of my taxes!
What a bunch of suckers and marks sport fans are.
4
THANK GOD AGAIN for Joe Nocera, about the only major media writer brave enough to use a BS detector on big sports business...love to know what changed the Neas to Yeas on this one! Would Nevada ever do a deal like that to improve its educational infrastructure? Or to make the town less of a water felony? How's the state doing on funding its pension obligations? Any comment, Governor?
2
I was long ago priced out of Jets and Giant games and I am against public funds for any sports stadiums. However, at least I still like to watch sports. But where is Nocera's article regarding public spending for facilities enjoyed primarily by the 1%? Opera, ballet, classical music concerts? Who attends but millionaires? That is clear by the clothes! Yet those venues all get taxpayer money!
It is sooo Eazy to TAX NON VOTERS.
Foot ball is the priemer magic trick, providing millions of eyeballs to advertisers over the dark and cold fall and winter outdoor doldrums. TV the Electronic fireplace for family Holiday gatherings. PERFECT !
NFL 3 hours of endless Advertising and Hot Air from Has beens. ONLY 11
minutes of action.
America turn off Football get a life.
Watch the Cubs and Indians and the poetry of 90 feet.
Foot ball is the priemer magic trick, providing millions of eyeballs to advertisers over the dark and cold fall and winter outdoor doldrums. TV the Electronic fireplace for family Holiday gatherings. PERFECT !
NFL 3 hours of endless Advertising and Hot Air from Has beens. ONLY 11
minutes of action.
America turn off Football get a life.
Watch the Cubs and Indians and the poetry of 90 feet.
What a ripoff! The only winners are the NFL team owners and Adelson. Wait, Sandoval will get a percentage under the table at a later date.
This will be a huge financial mistake for Las Vegas.
Crooked politicians! Scum!
This will be a huge financial mistake for Las Vegas.
Crooked politicians! Scum!
Casino sports books will lose money if they have to scratch 16 Raider games from the schedule. A Las Vegas Raiders' Super Bowl appearance would be problematic.
The average person sees television as integral to the success of the NFl. Gambling is an essential ancillary element. If the Raiders go to Las Vegas, why can't New Jersey have sports gambling?
Davis inherited belligerence and bad hair.
The average person sees television as integral to the success of the NFl. Gambling is an essential ancillary element. If the Raiders go to Las Vegas, why can't New Jersey have sports gambling?
Davis inherited belligerence and bad hair.
1
A couple of points. First, Gary Bettman, must be wondering why the National Hockey League is not considered a Tier One professional sport. Then again, he can look at another desert city, Phoenix to understand why. Secondly, why does the NFL need a team in Las Vegas? To stiff the Oakland fans.
2
The GOP likes to say that business decisions should be made without government intervention. And it is not even smart intervention, as the city should get a significant ownership stake in the team for $750 million.
As always with politicians, watch what they do, not what they say!
As always with politicians, watch what they do, not what they say!
7
Like all things from the NYT, if it isn't good for liberals, it isn't good at all. JOE NOCERA takes aim at what is wrong with the proposal but provides solid proof. Furthermore, he provides no positives aside "Jerry Tarkanian" regarding the stadium how it WILL make Las Vegas a better destination during of off-peak season, which by the way is the NFL season. Overall, even with a tidbit here and a tidbit there of truth in his report, the fact is that a Raiders move to Las Vegas in a new stadium is a HUGE win for the Team, City and us residents. So, Viva Las Vegas Raiders!
1
The giveaways in the 1990s by Cincinnati conservative pols to the Bengals and, literally, to the mansions on the hills, haven't produced squat in terms of solid economic development or good jobs. Those ignorant and selfish liberals here were 100% correct when they predicted the county and most of its citizens were going to be hosed.
Good luck, then, with your excusifying when it happens to people in Vegas who aren't named Sheldon or Steve.
Good luck, then, with your excusifying when it happens to people in Vegas who aren't named Sheldon or Steve.
1
Civic ego projects rarely do. And the sports versions never make economic sense.
9
Thanks for covering this
The public needs to punish politicians that keep doing this most ineffective form of corporate welfare
The public needs to punish politicians that keep doing this most ineffective form of corporate welfare
13
How dare these politicians invest for growth! We could surely use the leadership of Gov. Brian Sandoval in this election cycle. Labor unions were already dropping their support for those that cast "no" votes! Did you watch the "special session" and listen to the facts of the project or are you just going on how the media is portraying it?
Vernon, it doesn't look like you've even read the article because if you had then you would know that the "facts" that were presented are, at best, specious claims but in reality are simply outright lies.
Oakland and Alameda County will be fine without the Raiders whereas the taxpayers of Las Vegas will be burdened with one of the largest stadium boondoggles in history and no measurable improvement in their quality of life to show for it.
Oakland and Alameda County will be fine without the Raiders whereas the taxpayers of Las Vegas will be burdened with one of the largest stadium boondoggles in history and no measurable improvement in their quality of life to show for it.
19
The funny thing is that in the total scheme of things, in the totality of what is actually going on when an NFL game is taking place, the people who are present at the stadium are only incidentally spectators at a sporting event. In reality, they are the studio audience of a television show.
If there's any doubt about that, just attend one of these productions in person and watch how everything stops to accommodate the commercials. See how carefully choreographed everything is so that a 60-minute event can be made to fill a 200-minute time slot.
Take away the TV contract, take away the fact that the games are broadcast to lots more people than could ever attend the games in person because the real money is in the TV contract, and what you're left with is a relatively trivial enterprise that isn't worth the public's investing in it. Meanwhile, the owners expect the public to pay for the arena.
At least when a state or locality gives tax breaks to an incoming factory, the jobs created (after construction of the facility, of course) are full-time, year-round jobs.
If there's any doubt about that, just attend one of these productions in person and watch how everything stops to accommodate the commercials. See how carefully choreographed everything is so that a 60-minute event can be made to fill a 200-minute time slot.
Take away the TV contract, take away the fact that the games are broadcast to lots more people than could ever attend the games in person because the real money is in the TV contract, and what you're left with is a relatively trivial enterprise that isn't worth the public's investing in it. Meanwhile, the owners expect the public to pay for the arena.
At least when a state or locality gives tax breaks to an incoming factory, the jobs created (after construction of the facility, of course) are full-time, year-round jobs.
27
between Boneisha and Steve Wynn......who has a better insight?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETOlfsI3fVk
If that link doesn't work, just search for "steve wynn supports stadium"
Steve and Sheldon have built and shaped Las Vegas, its why they are Billionaires. Vision combined with action. This Stadium project is no different. Sheldon is practically dragging the city into its next phase of growth....the next reinvention.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETOlfsI3fVk
If that link doesn't work, just search for "steve wynn supports stadium"
Steve and Sheldon have built and shaped Las Vegas, its why they are Billionaires. Vision combined with action. This Stadium project is no different. Sheldon is practically dragging the city into its next phase of growth....the next reinvention.
2
Vernon, with all due respect you need to do some real research on the subject. Start with the book "Field of Schemes".
What you learn might surprise you.
What you learn might surprise you.
10
Thank you for your input, Mr Adelson. Er, I mean Mr. Jarman.
5
As a resident of the City of Oakland, I couldn't be any more prouder of Mayor Schaff for not truckling to Mark Davis' wishes and whims throughout the negotiation phases.
33
Neither could Nevada
Don't be silly.
You would think the new york times would of report all the information but nope. Everyone keeps thinking the stadium was built just for the Raiders, which isn't entirely wrong, but it's only a part of the pie. Vegas is planning to have 40+ events a year at the new stadium. Ten of those events will be Raider games (2 preseason, 8 regular.) Another 6 games for UNLV football. So that's 16 events of football. Nearly 30 events will have nothing to do with the Raiders and THAT'S the real reason why Las Vegas really wanted to build the stadium. Mega-concerts/music festivals, huge boxing/UFC events, Final Four, NCAA bowl games, they can hold the NBA Christmas event games/All-Star game-the NHL winter classic/All-Star game and make those events feel epic, NFL Pro Bowl, the Super Bowl, WrestleMania, the Political conventions, E-Sports events, award ceremonies, huge movie premiere events.... Do I really need to go on??? Las Vegas has been planning this for YEARS and to think that the only reason all of this is happening is ONLY for a football team is flabbergasting. The truth is Las Vegas wouldn't spend $750 million just for a football team, they would spend it on a stadium that's going to hold world class events, THATS the real reason why Vegas is spending $750 million dollars.
4
Hopefully Major League Soccer will put a team there and stadium is being funded not by taxpayers BUT a hotel tax that visitors will pay. How tax payers pay for a stadium in Nevada where there are no state taxes... Huh?
You do need to go on. How many NFL stadiums host more than 10 non-football events per year, never mind 30? The same silly promises are made every time the taxpayers subsidize billionaire owners with new stadiums. Will Mr. Davis and the Raiders be held financially accountable if those 30 non-football events per year don't materialize? Is that written into any agreement? Of course not. The taxpayers will be stuck with bill, and the Raiders, if they so desire, will be free to leave, much like the Rams arrived in St. Louis for their subsidized stadium, used it for 20 years, and then abandoned it. How many events will that building be used for?
5
Great post!
It is difficult to understand why any municipality or state would go to such lengths to invite the Raiders in, considering how they have used and abused Oakland and L.A. over the last few decades. Perhaps what Mr. Adelson is getting for his millions is some measure of control over the team that would prevent such shenanigans in the future.
3
Used and abused? The Raiders have tried to work out a deal in Oakland for 8 years. Nobody could imagine Dallas without the Cowboys, or Green Bay without The Packers....in a few years, Las Vegas Raiders will carry that same link/association. The added exposure for the city is incredible. The Raiders have fans Nationwide and Globally. Sheldon Adelson is doing a tremendous service to the community. Again, he's putting in 650 MILLION dollars.
The Raiders have one of the oldest stadiums in the league, and they are the only NFL team sharing their stadium with a MLB team. It's in a pretty bad area and there isn't much about it but industrial.
2
Yeah, right! I suppose Adelson will claim a charitable deduction in return for the "tremendous service" he is rendering to the community.
Another grand example of welfare for the billionaire.
And it's the Raiders too. Didn't Al Davis screw the taxpayers of several cities in the past? You kind of get the feeling that Mark Davis is getting readty to do the same to Las Vegas. Ah, like father like son.
And it's the Raiders too. Didn't Al Davis screw the taxpayers of several cities in the past? You kind of get the feeling that Mark Davis is getting readty to do the same to Las Vegas. Ah, like father like son.
15
welfare for a billionaire? Come on Magic. At what level? Again, he's kicking in 650 million.......and here are his competitors talking about the unselfishness of the act:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4NntXLk0AA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4NntXLk0AA
1
Since the Nevada governor has the luxury of essentially giving away over half a billion of taxpayer dollars to billionaires, the federal government should reconsider the amount of funding is made available to the sate of Nevada.
Is there any recourse and will those politicians be held responsible?
UNBELIEVABLE!
Is there any recourse and will those politicians be held responsible?
UNBELIEVABLE!
33
Wow, its has been so long since American's have seen growth, they have forgotten how to invest for it. The "helping a billionaire" sentiment is so off base it isn't even funny. A sign of the times I suppose. Folks nowadays generally have the attitude of "you build it with your money but I'll gladly share in any economic growth it provides". Where are we now....around 5% of the people in this country pay 70% of the taxes but the prevailing sentiment is still "make the rich pay their fair share". Pathetic and nothing but populist rhetoric. I have to wonder if all the naysayers even took the time to watch the hearings, and/or listen to Steve Wynn's comments....or the out of work construction employees....or understand the stadium also comes with an expansion of the Convention Center. My cap is off to Sheldon Adelson and the rest of the leaders in Las Vegas for making this happen. We could surely use somebody like Gov. Brian Sandoval leading this Nation.
3
If you want to talk about schools, subway systems, parks, law enforcement, scientific research, etc., yes. This is none of those. And if it offered such great returns, private investors would put up the money. If you actually read the article you would see the economists who have been studying these issues for years spell out how these are usually bad deals, and this one in particular.
12
In Europe, sports teams pay for their own stadiums, and, brace yourself, they still have sports. Why subsidize an industry that can pay its own bills quite easily?
10
Adelson (and others) know it isn't a money making venture.....he's doing it for the community. Nobody ever said anything about the stadium producing returns, its about the economic benefit to the city, its out of work construction tradesmen. and the citizens of LV having a world class stadium to host not only The Raiders but many other events as well. People seem to forget Sheldon Adelson is coming up with 650 million on his own! They gloss over that like it's not even a factor.
Perhaps the Chargers could join the Raiders in Vegas? That would be the best outcome for San Diego...
16
As an East Bay resident I am happy to see them go. Oakland and Alameda County will do just fine without spending $750 million for 10 Raiders games a year.
25
I'm another Alameda County taxpayer. I'm fed up with stoking the Davis family's ego, and funding (county seat) Oakland's ego when it needs so many more important things.
And we're still on the hook for the upgrades to the Coliseum that Al Davis demanded to come back from LA, spoiling the stadium for baseball. Bye-bye!
And we're still on the hook for the upgrades to the Coliseum that Al Davis demanded to come back from LA, spoiling the stadium for baseball. Bye-bye!
4
You think its just for 10 football games?
2.6 million people visited Oakland last year...and they are assessing a $2.50 per night room tax to try and get that up. Do you back that? Why not spend that tax toward something else?
http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/blog/2015/05/tourism-hospitality...
Vegas will host 40 million and they are building this state of the art stadium for a room tax of about $1 per night.
2.6 million people visited Oakland last year...and they are assessing a $2.50 per night room tax to try and get that up. Do you back that? Why not spend that tax toward something else?
http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/blog/2015/05/tourism-hospitality...
Vegas will host 40 million and they are building this state of the art stadium for a room tax of about $1 per night.
Sorry to use such a banal cliche, Vernon, but please stop drinking the Kool-Aid.
You would be well advised to start reading the following blog:
Http://www.FieldOfSchemes.com
You would be well advised to start reading the following blog:
Http://www.FieldOfSchemes.com
7
I feel really badly for the taxpayers of Nevada. I'll feel even worse when it's proven to be the corrupt boondoggle we all know it is and they're still on the hook for multiple millions of dollars.
20
Lets be clear:
IT IS A ROOM TAX THAT AMOUNTS TO ABOUT a $1 PER NIGHT ON TOURIST. Do the taxpayers of Nevada stay in the rooms on the Strip????
IT IS A ROOM TAX THAT AMOUNTS TO ABOUT a $1 PER NIGHT ON TOURIST. Do the taxpayers of Nevada stay in the rooms on the Strip????
2
@Vernon: Yes, and so do our families.
3
Michael, so assume you stay there one month out of the year, in total. For $30, you now have a world class stadium! If you're upset about this $30, you can't deny the importance of Sheldon Adelson's 650 million dollar contribution toward the project. Also, if you're upset at the extra $30 this is going to cost you, you most likely shouldn't be spending a month out of the year staying on the Strip if you live there.
Why not? Americans need to show they are still #1 in something. And that is giving $$$ to the already wealthy.
29
Way to go Joe. I don't know how the citizens can escape these crooked deals but they batter start soon. Billionaires spending money for a deal which in analysis appears to be a loser. What's Adelson getting for his 3/4 billion?
13
"But at the last minute, after some behind-the-scenes lobbying, some 'nays' became 'yeas,' and it passed by one vote."
Hmmm. Smells fishy.
We all know the House has the advantage in Vegas. But beyond that, it sounds like they cooked the books on the jobs, taxes and other public benefits to get that whopping subsidy.
Seems like this game was, to use a common phrase, "rigged."
Hmmm. Smells fishy.
We all know the House has the advantage in Vegas. But beyond that, it sounds like they cooked the books on the jobs, taxes and other public benefits to get that whopping subsidy.
Seems like this game was, to use a common phrase, "rigged."
7
http://nevadanewsandviews.com/nevadas-most-notorious-anti-tax-crusader-e...