And the problem is....oh right, someone's race. Not their behavior. R i g h t ... of course.
4
On the subject of there being a lot of good officers, yes there are, but where are they when this intimidation happens? Why don't they speak out? Why don't they fight for justice for the citizens they truly do want to protect?
They can claim that they're never present, but racists who have power don't hide their prejudice; they're often proud of it so I don't believe the good guys don't know what's going on, and especially with all the media coverage.
It's like being a Catholic priest and knowing that the parish priest is raping or molesting children, but saying nothing about it to him or to higher authorities. You just can't hide behind "I'm one of the good guys" if you do nothing to stop the bad.
They can claim that they're never present, but racists who have power don't hide their prejudice; they're often proud of it so I don't believe the good guys don't know what's going on, and especially with all the media coverage.
It's like being a Catholic priest and knowing that the parish priest is raping or molesting children, but saying nothing about it to him or to higher authorities. You just can't hide behind "I'm one of the good guys" if you do nothing to stop the bad.
7
I am not defending the behavior of the police in this article, but it is hard to make informed judgments about the incidents reported when the NYT interviews ALL of the victims in these situations but NONE of the perpetrators.
7
This entire piece was amazing and I particularly found Ms. Robinson and Mr. Field's story especially haunting. I cannot imagine what went through the officers' minds as they sat outside of Mr. Field's house. The act itself was so incredibly criminal that I almost have trouble believing it.
Accountability is a buzzword nowadays, but in light of how evident the data and damning the stories presented here are, it clearly needs to be employed. Body cameras are a welcome addition. I further wonder if internal affairs should be turned over to an independent regulatory agency rather than be left as it is now.
As a side note, i think it's crucial to know the sample size of all of the figures if sampling was performed. Furthermore, some sort of statistical significance or confidence intervals should be included if that was the case. If not, the number of cases analyzed should be evident somewhere (better near the figure than far away). If Torrington, Conn's recorded data is on, for instance, 50 cases, then that was a poorly sampled set or an issue with the records that would be negligent to not disclose. Given the magnitude of the effect and the effect's coherence with our assumptions and non-numerical observations elsewhere, i doubt the effect is weaker to the point of painting the opposite picture, so in this case, it's not as important. However, the issue remains that with the current data disclosure, it's probably possibly to fudge the data to paint the complete opposite.
Accountability is a buzzword nowadays, but in light of how evident the data and damning the stories presented here are, it clearly needs to be employed. Body cameras are a welcome addition. I further wonder if internal affairs should be turned over to an independent regulatory agency rather than be left as it is now.
As a side note, i think it's crucial to know the sample size of all of the figures if sampling was performed. Furthermore, some sort of statistical significance or confidence intervals should be included if that was the case. If not, the number of cases analyzed should be evident somewhere (better near the figure than far away). If Torrington, Conn's recorded data is on, for instance, 50 cases, then that was a poorly sampled set or an issue with the records that would be negligent to not disclose. Given the magnitude of the effect and the effect's coherence with our assumptions and non-numerical observations elsewhere, i doubt the effect is weaker to the point of painting the opposite picture, so in this case, it's not as important. However, the issue remains that with the current data disclosure, it's probably possibly to fudge the data to paint the complete opposite.
5
'Black lives matter' - to all except bigots, ignoramuses, and all too many of our legally designated authority figures. But nobody should ever be smug about this, no matter how their appearance may seem a shield to them. To be black in the police state that America has shamefully become is to be the canary in the mine. 'First', as a modern-day Pastor Martin Niemoller might say, 'they came for the blacks ...'
"And you know something, people? I'm not black, but there's a whole lot of times I wish I could say I'm not white." - Frank Zappa
"And you know something, people? I'm not black, but there's a whole lot of times I wish I could say I'm not white." - Frank Zappa
9
Lets see if I have this right? A lot of commenters here are saying that the police deserve no respect, that the commenters do not want to show respect and that the police show no respect? But the police job is about having authority and receiving respect and having their directions followed. So if you push back, the cop's job is to push harder, and the cop's life is on the line with every encounter. There is no time for the cop to step back and assess the situation. When you are in your car and the cop is outside, you have physical and visual advantage, and the cop may need to take that advantage away from you. So do not give the cop the need to make the wrong decision.
7
@Howard64, New Jersey
Sorry to say, I don't think you have it quite right. Your perception of the matter appears to be a bit too one-dimensional.
You might want to have a quick re-read the article and all of the comments again.
And a working knowledge of American History and the Civil Rights movement might also come in handy.
Sorry to say, I don't think you have it quite right. Your perception of the matter appears to be a bit too one-dimensional.
You might want to have a quick re-read the article and all of the comments again.
And a working knowledge of American History and the Civil Rights movement might also come in handy.
10
@N. Smith I feel that I am a good student of history, I in fact lived through much of what most call history. I was there, though very young in the 50s. Constantly looking back 50, 60 or hundreds of years ago and recognizing yourself as a current victim of what happened before you and possibly your parents were born will get you nowhere. Living up to the stereotypes is not the way. The legal rights have been won, probably before you were born. The next step was not taken, get out to vote in mass and not just say "ah my vote would not count, I'm not going to take a bus and then wait on line", meet the established qualifications and join the police force and change it from the inside if need be. The law is no longer the problem in the US, in fact the laws like quotas, integration, minority business loans, equal education, affirmative action and others gave black people the advantage over "whites" that was and is not used. We have a two term black democratic president and the leading republican presidential candidate is black. Take advantage of what some have accomplished and accomplish more!
6
Wrong decision? The persons who made the wrong decision in two cases were Police Officers. One told me I was driving in the wrong neighborhood (when I had every right to be there) and the other pushed me when I respectfully disagreed with him about a speeding charge. No, the wrong decisions made were by Police Officers
3
I have seen my white friends who live in affluent area turn their nose up in disgust at reports like this. For them, there is nothing wrong with cops because they and their white families have not seen it themselves in their affluent neighborhood. They accuse President Obama for race baiting and racial instigation just for acknowledging that problems exist. For them all the problems will go away only if they obey cops no matter the situation. Must be nice to be rich white folk.
11
What is frustrating about this article is that it seams like a solution is so close but I finished thinking nothing will really change. There are some good ideas supported by the police but the underlying lack of respect for the black public is toxic and will ultimately derail any real change.
5
Good police officers operate partially on instinct. Are these two people just having a passionate argument or is he about to hit his wife? Is that driver momentarily distracted or actually dangerous? Are those kids just hanging out or are they waiting to cause trouble?
The problem is that white instincts about black people are 100% wrong. It's easy to police your own community, you understand the nuances and the culture -- hell you probably know a lot of the people in a small city or town. But white people don't know jack about black people. Put a black man behind 95% of white people in America and they will feel threatened. The black man isn't doing anything -- his EXISTENCE is threatening.
Some cops are racist and abusive and they should go. But others are just being human. They are more forgiving of people they know and think of as similar to them than they are of people who seem different. More accountability, cameras, training -- those are all solutions but nothing will help as much as actually knowing and respecting black people.
White people no longer look at Italian or Irish children as fundamentally different from "regular" children. When they look at black children and see children and teenagers, when they look at black men and see husbands and fathers and grandfathers, we may achieve something in this country.
The problem is that white instincts about black people are 100% wrong. It's easy to police your own community, you understand the nuances and the culture -- hell you probably know a lot of the people in a small city or town. But white people don't know jack about black people. Put a black man behind 95% of white people in America and they will feel threatened. The black man isn't doing anything -- his EXISTENCE is threatening.
Some cops are racist and abusive and they should go. But others are just being human. They are more forgiving of people they know and think of as similar to them than they are of people who seem different. More accountability, cameras, training -- those are all solutions but nothing will help as much as actually knowing and respecting black people.
White people no longer look at Italian or Irish children as fundamentally different from "regular" children. When they look at black children and see children and teenagers, when they look at black men and see husbands and fathers and grandfathers, we may achieve something in this country.
30
Fugitive Slave Laws, Convict-Leasing, Peonage, The deconstruction of Reconstruction, Black Codes, Jim Crow Laws, The Separate But Equal Age, The Lynching Era, The Civil Rights Era, The Age of Mass Incarceration. When has the Black male in America not been under siege from the policing authority to aid and comfort the financial interests of Whites across all socioeconomic classes?
8
@Bangdu Whough New York City
Valid points. But you fail to mention Black Women. The Black male is not exclusive when it comes to racism in America.
Valid points. But you fail to mention Black Women. The Black male is not exclusive when it comes to racism in America.
5
Keep reporting this issue. White America really doesn't know. We need to get educated about how our police are creating criminals with overly aggressive traffic stops. And then bigots get to say blacks really are more criminal. Which I don't believe.
I was stopped recently by a cop for speeding, justifiably. Still, I was surprised at the amount of attitude I got from that guy. I hate to think what would have happened if I were black. Then he went and checked my record. Squeaky clean. The attitude was dialed back considerably, though still barely polite. It's like I was guilty of any number of unnamed violations besides the one I was stopped for, until proven innocent.
Doesn't hurt to start polite to everyone.
I was stopped recently by a cop for speeding, justifiably. Still, I was surprised at the amount of attitude I got from that guy. I hate to think what would have happened if I were black. Then he went and checked my record. Squeaky clean. The attitude was dialed back considerably, though still barely polite. It's like I was guilty of any number of unnamed violations besides the one I was stopped for, until proven innocent.
Doesn't hurt to start polite to everyone.
10
The saddest part about reading this article is realizing how many people now mistrust the police and how much harder that makes it for both sides. We need police officers because there are criminals. But when police officers treat law abiding citizens like criminals or bully people it undermines the purpose of law enforcement. If you have been mistreated enough by the police, or any other group that holds authority over you, you are not going to report anything at all even if it might be in everyone's best interests to do so. It's what makes people take things into their own hands. African Americans can attest to this as can domestic abuse victims.
11
Same as it ever was.
5
Every time I see a police car run a red light, or park illegally (blocking a pedestrian curb cut, bike lane, fire hydrant), it shows the current attitude of police as special and us the common folks they're supposed to serve and protect as other. I liked it when police had to live inside the city limits, now they're occupiers passing through and looking down on those of us who live where they only work.
6
Actually, the majority of NYC officers do live in the city. The majority of both black and Hispanuc officers live in the city. Fewer than 50 % of white officers live in the city. (Githamist Aug. 21, 2014)Overall, the majority of officers do not live in the cities they patrol.
But, we have to get behind the statistics. Take the case of Baltimire. The city has the worst public school system in Maryland. Until recently, the Baltimire PD had the lowest starting salary of all neighboring jurisdictions. Baltimore is setting records for murders month by month. If officers see this day in and day out and they cannot afford private schools and hesitate about using Baltimore public schools in areas of the city their salaries would allow home ownership--not the affluent areas where their salaries would not allow them to buy--what should they do? They go to cheap suburbs with decent schools. Even in some neighboring suburbs, county police officers may be priced out of housing and live outside the county they patrol.
Residency is a topic the complexity and nuances of which overall statistics may hide. Yes, the police should not act as "occupiers" but then neither should the public treat them that way. The denizens of Manhattan in multi-million dollar dwellings may look down on cops but they want them when they dial 911.
But, we have to get behind the statistics. Take the case of Baltimire. The city has the worst public school system in Maryland. Until recently, the Baltimire PD had the lowest starting salary of all neighboring jurisdictions. Baltimore is setting records for murders month by month. If officers see this day in and day out and they cannot afford private schools and hesitate about using Baltimore public schools in areas of the city their salaries would allow home ownership--not the affluent areas where their salaries would not allow them to buy--what should they do? They go to cheap suburbs with decent schools. Even in some neighboring suburbs, county police officers may be priced out of housing and live outside the county they patrol.
Residency is a topic the complexity and nuances of which overall statistics may hide. Yes, the police should not act as "occupiers" but then neither should the public treat them that way. The denizens of Manhattan in multi-million dollar dwellings may look down on cops but they want them when they dial 911.
No! Really? I mean, is the White world really so clueless? Perhaps there ought to be a study on Privileged Information Deficit -- the sort of ignorance that arises from having it all.
Blacks and minorities are not only arrested disproportionately for driving while black; they are arrested for *standing* while black or brown and in all events sans Weejuns. In a recent Sacramento California case, which of course never made a column inch anywhere, a black man was detained and then arrested for standing next to a crookedly parked car on private property. Needless to say, the detention was upheld.
There is another story here, one that is more structurally important. The courts in this country routinely wink, nod and approve this institutional harassment which inevitably keeps African Americans in jail, under probationary surveillance and unemployed.
Under the malignant guidance of former Chief Justice Rehnquist, the United States Supreme Court completely gutted the Fourth Amendment which now exists as a mere empty form of words and which, had it been truly respected, would have provided a brake on racist bullying under color of law.
But safe and privileged people don't care about "protecting criminals" or "shackling the police" or the Fourth Amendment... at least until one day a tyrannical police state finally becomes color blind.
Blacks and minorities are not only arrested disproportionately for driving while black; they are arrested for *standing* while black or brown and in all events sans Weejuns. In a recent Sacramento California case, which of course never made a column inch anywhere, a black man was detained and then arrested for standing next to a crookedly parked car on private property. Needless to say, the detention was upheld.
There is another story here, one that is more structurally important. The courts in this country routinely wink, nod and approve this institutional harassment which inevitably keeps African Americans in jail, under probationary surveillance and unemployed.
Under the malignant guidance of former Chief Justice Rehnquist, the United States Supreme Court completely gutted the Fourth Amendment which now exists as a mere empty form of words and which, had it been truly respected, would have provided a brake on racist bullying under color of law.
But safe and privileged people don't care about "protecting criminals" or "shackling the police" or the Fourth Amendment... at least until one day a tyrannical police state finally becomes color blind.
22
This read the title of this article to the three other black male physicians working with me in the Emergency room today and the first thing they all said about the study was " well that was a waste of money". Not sure whether to laugh. Then we began to ask ourselves if this sort of thing will ever change and the answer is unanimously " Nope"
9
Does anyone not know this already? This has been going on forever.
11
@Doug, Boston
Read some of these comments, and you'll have your answer.
Read some of these comments, and you'll have your answer.
8
Very often when I read an article like this, someone comments that he was mugged by a black man, or that black men commit more crimes in his neighborhood (or at least are more frequently arrested, whether they have actually committed a crime). Therefore, the commentator says, it is perfectly reasonable for the police--and white people in general--to assume that the black man in front of them is a violent criminal.
As someone who has personally witnessed cops committing unprovoked assaults on citizens, and seen many videos of the same, I'd say it was perfectly reasonable to assume that a cop approaching me is a violent bully and possibly a murderer. The fact that the police routinely lie for each other and cover up each others' crimes simply confirms my suspicion that none of them are to be trusted.
As someone who has personally witnessed cops committing unprovoked assaults on citizens, and seen many videos of the same, I'd say it was perfectly reasonable to assume that a cop approaching me is a violent bully and possibly a murderer. The fact that the police routinely lie for each other and cover up each others' crimes simply confirms my suspicion that none of them are to be trusted.
21
Happy Motoring is not something Black drivers can take for granted
These routine traffic stops turning deadly are becoming all too routine. The old jingle "See the USA in your Chevrolet" takes on a very different tune for African Americans. What many discover is the rules of the roads are not paved with equality. As the bitter debate about how our police forces treat non white citizens escalates, it has exposed a truth many minorities already know. The rules of the road are different if you are driving while black. http://wp.me/p2qifI-2Xt
These routine traffic stops turning deadly are becoming all too routine. The old jingle "See the USA in your Chevrolet" takes on a very different tune for African Americans. What many discover is the rules of the roads are not paved with equality. As the bitter debate about how our police forces treat non white citizens escalates, it has exposed a truth many minorities already know. The rules of the road are different if you are driving while black. http://wp.me/p2qifI-2Xt
9
The first premise in the story about “minor” infractions is where the writer made an editorial decision and first got it wrong. Not having the truck even registered to drive is not minor...and a safety issue of no red flag to warn others of a danger is also important.
Then they refuse to get out of the car. Give me a break.
Then they refuse to get out of the car. Give me a break.
16
The story line goes "Most cops are heroes but few bad apples..." which I do not buy any more. The police/criminal justice culture is so corrupt that I believe most cops are far worse than the "criminals" they arrest. Prison guards rape inmates and get away with it. Cops murder unarmed civilians and are exonerated. The whole system is rotten and no amount of this hand-wringing is going to fix it. If the union had to pay the restitution to the victims instead of the taxpayer, then maybe you would see a change in behavior but not until these guys actually have any skin in the game.
15
Could we please begin at the beginning?
"Two police officers pulled them over for minor infractions that included expired plates and failing to hang a flag from a load of scrap metal in the pickup’s bed."
This is telling. "That included" means that there were more than just these two violations. Why not tell us the other ones?
And why the editorializing use of the word "minor"? Failing to flag a load in a pickup truck is not a minor infraction, especially if you are the driver who doesn't see it, and strikes it, and it crashes through your windshield. It is avery serious safety violation. Expired plates speaks to a similar issue; I suppose a safety inspection is required to have them renewed.
We begin with bias...where do we go from here?
"Two police officers pulled them over for minor infractions that included expired plates and failing to hang a flag from a load of scrap metal in the pickup’s bed."
This is telling. "That included" means that there were more than just these two violations. Why not tell us the other ones?
And why the editorializing use of the word "minor"? Failing to flag a load in a pickup truck is not a minor infraction, especially if you are the driver who doesn't see it, and strikes it, and it crashes through your windshield. It is avery serious safety violation. Expired plates speaks to a similar issue; I suppose a safety inspection is required to have them renewed.
We begin with bias...where do we go from here?
19
If indeed FBI director Comey believes, as he states, that attention to the misbehavior of police has "emboldened criminals" and made police back off on arrests, then the fix is easy: weed out bad officers and train the remaining ones to do their jobs properly without abusing their privilege. As a defense attorney, I saw many good officers, and a few bad ones. The bad ones color the perception of all officers. They, and not the quite proper scrutiny of their behavior, are to blame.
14
If you are in an identifiable group that commits crime disproportionately it should not be a surprise that you are considered suspcious disproportionately.
The real question has nothing to do with the number of stops of one racial group or another. The real question is whether the stops result in a disproportionate number of non-convictions. If one racial group is being stopped more often, but, as a result of the stops, is also being convicted of a crime more often, then the disproportionate number of stops is just a reflection of good police work.
The real question has nothing to do with the number of stops of one racial group or another. The real question is whether the stops result in a disproportionate number of non-convictions. If one racial group is being stopped more often, but, as a result of the stops, is also being convicted of a crime more often, then the disproportionate number of stops is just a reflection of good police work.
13
In these areas of the country where blacks are sopped more often... What is the crime rate like where stops are made? In the area where the stops are made... What is the ratio of black citizens to white? Not in the entire city... the area of the stops.
In communities, such as the one in the article, are there any efforts made by the schools and/or the police departments to have assemblies where the police and young people interact to express expectations each group has to the other. For one thing, the young people need, very much, to understand that police officers are people too... with families they'd like to go home to after their shift is over. Sudden movements, such as those made in the opening paragraphs, send red flags and trigger survival instincts in the officers REGARDLESS of the race of the individual making the sudden and unexpected move. SOMEONE needs to educate these young people of the proper protocol when dealing with an officer on even a BOGUS traffic stop. You fight in front of the judge... NOT with the police officer in the street!!
In communities, such as the one in the article, are there any efforts made by the schools and/or the police departments to have assemblies where the police and young people interact to express expectations each group has to the other. For one thing, the young people need, very much, to understand that police officers are people too... with families they'd like to go home to after their shift is over. Sudden movements, such as those made in the opening paragraphs, send red flags and trigger survival instincts in the officers REGARDLESS of the race of the individual making the sudden and unexpected move. SOMEONE needs to educate these young people of the proper protocol when dealing with an officer on even a BOGUS traffic stop. You fight in front of the judge... NOT with the police officer in the street!!
8
Right before going in for jury duty at metro Detroit area's 35th district court, judge came out and gave us a pep talk. He was VERY proud of the fact that his court was cost neutral, meaning he fund his court thought tickets and fines. I remember looking at his smug face and thinking YOU are the source of the problem. I have been stopped for no signal when I have not seen other cars in miles. Reason, it is bar closing time. After passing the drunk test , I still got a ticket, so I can make his court cost neutral. Hey, Republicans. Lowest cost government is not what I want if it will mean stopping people just because it is bar closing time. I hope that 35th Michigan district court judge read this comment.
13
Since the tax revenues don't fund the courts, they want to try to do it on the people who can least afford the financial hit.
4
The New York Times analysis is based on traffics stops and searches as a percentage of population. According to the Justice Department’s National Institute of Racial Justice, “social scientists now disregard comparisons to the census for assessing racial bias.” The reason is that black motorists are more likely than white motorists to drive in heavily patrolled high-crime neighborhoods. Since the New York Times analysis compares traffic stops and search only to percentages of population, it is invalid for the purposes of assessing racial discrimination. Whites who live or drive in high-neighborhoods are also more likely to be pulled over and searched than whites who live in low-crime neighborhoods. The authors complain that such factors make "it hard to tease out evidence of bias from other influences," but the factors are real. The disparity in media age between blacks and whites alone is enough to account for most of the racial disparity in traffic stops and searches. According to the Census Bureau, the median age for whites is 42 while the median age for blacks is 32.
http://www.nij.gov/topics/law-enforcement/legitimacy/pages/traffic-stops...
http://www.nij.gov/topics/law-enforcement/legitimacy/pages/traffic-stops...
11
Any fair analysis of shootings of Police Officers shows a wide, disproportionate role of blacks, including this week in NYC. But that's just not news, is it?
9
@jmr , belmont
Having worked in a newsroom, I can assure you that the "news" isn't always what is being reported. Double check your sources.
Having worked in a newsroom, I can assure you that the "news" isn't always what is being reported. Double check your sources.
4
A truly fair treatment of the murder of Officers Holder and Moore, a few months ago, would have included the NYT's opening articles about the officers'deaths to comments. Readers are not even given an opportunity to express condolences. The NYT ran an article about the residents' fears of increased gun violence in East Harlem where Officer Holder was murdered but did not open that to comment. He and his partner were on a rooftop in a public housing complex and witnessed shooting. He and has partner did not look the other way but tried to protect the public--in this case the residents of public housing in East Harlem. Officer Holder, the shooter and the other arrestees involved in the gun violence are black. Violence is creeping up all over the country. Why?
Articles, such as this about DWB and the events in Ferguson, Baltimore and NYC when civilians died during interactions with police are always highlighted by the NYT and open to comment and justifiably so....
Why the disparity, though, between articles about justifiable police action--even heroism-- and those about police brutality and bias? Both types of stories should be told.
This is not to say that the present article is not informative and representive of reality but that the NYT is hardly even-handed in its coverage of law enforcement. We all have implicit biases of one sort or another and they drive our action and decisions. Editors are no different.
Articles, such as this about DWB and the events in Ferguson, Baltimore and NYC when civilians died during interactions with police are always highlighted by the NYT and open to comment and justifiably so....
Why the disparity, though, between articles about justifiable police action--even heroism-- and those about police brutality and bias? Both types of stories should be told.
This is not to say that the present article is not informative and representive of reality but that the NYT is hardly even-handed in its coverage of law enforcement. We all have implicit biases of one sort or another and they drive our action and decisions. Editors are no different.
3
I am a white female in my 60s. A few years ago after I had purchased a new vehicle, the state motor vehicle division didn't send me a reminder about renewing my tags so I didn't remember to do so. I was pulled over by a police officer. You would have thought I had been smuggling drugs. He was very abrupt. I made a joke about getting old and forgetful; he lectured me how it was my responsibility to renew my tags not the state's. When he noticed my license had on it that I wore glasses, he asked where my glasses were. I told him I wore contacts. He had me look at him so he could check to make sure my contacts were in my eyes! By this time I figured out the man was a control freak who wanted to find something else wrong so I quit talking to him unless he ask me a question. I think there are police officers who want the job because they like the power it gives them over other people. Add in racism and you have a deadly combination.
26
He was doing his job. No problem.
3
You really won't know the truth until cops wear body cams. When they do, lots of the people complaining here won't be able to complain any more because the evidence will prove otherwise. It's easy to tell the Times that you were a victim of "arbitrary" brutality when the police are precluded from telling the other side of the story.
5
@David NY
Police wearing body-cams may serve as a deterrent. But the sad reality is, you won't really "know the truth" until something like this happens to you.
Police wearing body-cams may serve as a deterrent. But the sad reality is, you won't really "know the truth" until something like this happens to you.
5
Even when President Obama was growing up he experienced DWB( Driving While Black). The problem: With more police officers coming " in the line of crossfire" I can understand to a degree where Law Enforcement is coming from. In the Minority communities across the US there tends to be a lot more poverty, crime, drugs, warrants, homelessness, child support payments etc. With the recent killings of Law Enforcement officers in the NYPD and in New Mexico there is no simple solution to this problem! A record amount of lawsuits were paid out to the Minority families in NYC and Furgerson, MO where two African- Americans were sooo senselessly slaughtered! Body cameras are just the beginning; The FBI must keep a " Birdseye" on Law Enforcement who " violate peoples Civil Rights"! If Martin Luther King JR was alive today; MR King would be somewhat depressed on how society is stuck in Neutral. Racial Inequality is a major problem. President Obama is releasing a record amount of Federal Inmates for Good Behavior because the taxpayers can't keep spending to care for over 2.5 million inmates that are in America's jails/ prisons! As Rodney King once proclaimed " Can't we all just get along"!!!!!!!!!!
3
The two reporters have spent a good deal of their careers overseas. They have each reported once or twice about law enforcement matters. There is no indication that they have any knowledge of police protocol, either generally or in Greensboro. They may never in their lives have even talked to a police officer. And they show no awareness of what happens to these cases after arrest. They have worked with cold statistics and with people claiming to have been victimized. If they have a sense of how arresting police officers defend their actions, nothing in the article reflects that. The reporters have esteemed backgrounds but it appears that they come to their subject with no knowledge of how policing works beyond the statistics and common sense. On one side you've got career cops, prosecutors and judges and on the other side you have experts on China and Afghanistan. The reporters are smart capable people. But they probably don't know 4th Amendment law, which governs arrests, or the laws governing indictment and complaints and bail, all of which are relevant. They are smart people who are out of their league.
7
@michjas Phoenix
Granted, the reporters may not know "4th Amendment law"; but most Americans don't ether. And as far as this case is concerned, perhaps it's easier for them to see the forest for the trees.
Granted, the reporters may not know "4th Amendment law"; but most Americans don't ether. And as far as this case is concerned, perhaps it's easier for them to see the forest for the trees.
5
Did they spend a few months traveling around with police, or just rely on reports by those stopped and arrested? I suspect it's the lattet.
2
I don't think they spent a few months driving around with police to investigate. Reports by those arrested are biased.
Police wonder why violence against them has been rising? I say "Look in the mirror". If you can't say you are assisting and defending all citizens without regard to color then YOU are the problem!
12
It is amazing how people are not citing stats or expressing concern about young, adult white males who shoot up schools, theaters and churches ( all of the places Americans supposedly should feel safe) but are on this forum talking about Black crime that doesn't even begin to compare to that level of mass carnage as a justification for police abuse and injustice. Racism really blinds people to reality - even to their own detriment. You are more likely to be a victim of young white males than some random Black person whom you are segregated from socially. Young white males have never been profiled and we are never ready when they act on their issues. Also, the NY Times does not have a "liberal bias." Many of the comments posted here are of the racist, vile kind. Comments that challenge that thinking sometimes are not posted.
18
One policy prescription that the New York Times and its editors could have mentioned in this article is the End Racial Profiling Act. But ever since 2009, the New York Times has acted as the official organ of the Obama Administration and so the silence on ERPA continues.
I would hope that President Obama and his lily-white suburban, latte liberal, limousine liberal, hush-puppy wearing advisors would gather up the courage to support the End Racial Profiling Act.
Just to jog everyone's memory: The End Racial Profiling Act is that Act that U.S. Senator Obama of IL was for before U.S. President Obama of the USA was against it. President Obama's headlong retreat on the End Racial Profiling Act is perhaps the worst betrayal of U.S. Civil Rights since the Republicans ended Reconstruction.
Then Presidential Candidate Obama promised IN WRITING on Page 166 of his 2008 campaign book to enact, sign and enforce the End Racial Profiling Act if elected. When President Obama had control of both the White House and both houses of Congress in 2009 and early 2010, he could have and should have stood kept his WRITTEN promise on the End Racial Profiling Act. Instead we our stuck in 2015 with the permanently lodged waffle on ERPA that we have now!
All the current, weaving and dodging and ducking by President Obama on the End Racial Profiling Act is as deceitful as it is HYPOCRITICAL! And the SHAMEFUL silence of the New York Times on ERPA is similarly not helpful!
I would hope that President Obama and his lily-white suburban, latte liberal, limousine liberal, hush-puppy wearing advisors would gather up the courage to support the End Racial Profiling Act.
Just to jog everyone's memory: The End Racial Profiling Act is that Act that U.S. Senator Obama of IL was for before U.S. President Obama of the USA was against it. President Obama's headlong retreat on the End Racial Profiling Act is perhaps the worst betrayal of U.S. Civil Rights since the Republicans ended Reconstruction.
Then Presidential Candidate Obama promised IN WRITING on Page 166 of his 2008 campaign book to enact, sign and enforce the End Racial Profiling Act if elected. When President Obama had control of both the White House and both houses of Congress in 2009 and early 2010, he could have and should have stood kept his WRITTEN promise on the End Racial Profiling Act. Instead we our stuck in 2015 with the permanently lodged waffle on ERPA that we have now!
All the current, weaving and dodging and ducking by President Obama on the End Racial Profiling Act is as deceitful as it is HYPOCRITICAL! And the SHAMEFUL silence of the New York Times on ERPA is similarly not helpful!
4
That PBO and a Democrat controlled House and Senate didn't even try to pass ERPA tells anyone scenceint that some powerfull constituencies used racial profiling and wanted to continue to do so.
The sad truth is racial profiling is very much part of modern America. Among other places, it is institutionalized in the criminal justice system, from policing, to the courts, to the prison system. And it's a national shame.
The sad truth is racial profiling is very much part of modern America. Among other places, it is institutionalized in the criminal justice system, from policing, to the courts, to the prison system. And it's a national shame.
3
Unfortunately, a lot of cops are jerks. They really are. And they have a sense of entitlement. I am happy about the advent of the smart phone. They can't get away with behaving like their "god". They'd better do their job with respect to the public, or go do something else.
17
In an attempt to highlight potential bias in traffic stops, the writers state "..[according to studies] black motorists who were stopped were let go with no police action — not even a warning — more often than were whites".
They then, however, go on to quote Professor Dolores Jones-Brown who states "It means whites are ‘getting away’ with very low-level offenses, while people who are poor or people of color are suffering consequences.”
Is this obvious contradiction a case of poor writing/editing? Or, is it a cynical attempt at having it both ways? A Tails, I win, Heads, you lose type thing? My optimistic side hopes it's the former.
They then, however, go on to quote Professor Dolores Jones-Brown who states "It means whites are ‘getting away’ with very low-level offenses, while people who are poor or people of color are suffering consequences.”
Is this obvious contradiction a case of poor writing/editing? Or, is it a cynical attempt at having it both ways? A Tails, I win, Heads, you lose type thing? My optimistic side hopes it's the former.
4
I think you are too optimistic.
If you simply read the article the way it is written, rather than reading it to support your point of view, you will have your answer. See the big graph that shows, in city after city, percentages blacks stopped who had contraband werer lower for that of whites who were stopped. In fact, whites stopped were much likelier to have contra band than blacks even though they were stopped much less frequently. The article also stated that blacks where more likely after being stopped to either leave without being charged. The sum of those facts is that blacks are being stopped more for having committed no infraction while whites are more likely to carry drugs or other contraband in their vehicles but much less likely to be stopped.
That's why the article by line is, "The disproportionate risk of driving while black". I keep reading in your and other comments, that since " blacks commit more crime, the should be stopped more often. If that is also your truth and your logic, shouldn't whites be stopped more often because they are more likely to be carrying contraband? Should'nt young white males be stopped and searched before entering a movie theater?
If your answer to these questions is "no", then maybe it would be better for the police to stop people for real infractions that are likely to endanger others, like moving violations, rather than stopping a whole group of people for without cause.
That's why the article by line is, "The disproportionate risk of driving while black". I keep reading in your and other comments, that since " blacks commit more crime, the should be stopped more often. If that is also your truth and your logic, shouldn't whites be stopped more often because they are more likely to be carrying contraband? Should'nt young white males be stopped and searched before entering a movie theater?
If your answer to these questions is "no", then maybe it would be better for the police to stop people for real infractions that are likely to endanger others, like moving violations, rather than stopping a whole group of people for without cause.
1
This article is very one sided, not fully exploring the difference in behavior of the different groups towards police. That is the key. Without fully documenting the violent and criminal behavior towards police, there is no point. The disproportionate crime statistics show how much more prevalent crime is in black urban communities, making it mandatory that police be on their guard when approaching, and when responding to threatening behavior. To be treated not as a threat, work on reducing crime in the community, so that is a valid perception.
8
@Jnce , MO
Not to be rude, but the title of this article clearly states the subject matter: namely, "Driving While Black". Hence the focus here is on one particular community.
As for your assertion that:"crime statistics show how much more prevalent crime is in urban black communities"; Are you implying the same for Middle-class Black communities? And if not, have you ever wondered about WHY this might be so? Here's a hint: Living in chronically under-served and economically deprived neighborhoods might have something to do with it. And better trained law enforcement officers probably help the situation along as well.
The shoe is not always worn on one foot.
Not to be rude, but the title of this article clearly states the subject matter: namely, "Driving While Black". Hence the focus here is on one particular community.
As for your assertion that:"crime statistics show how much more prevalent crime is in urban black communities"; Are you implying the same for Middle-class Black communities? And if not, have you ever wondered about WHY this might be so? Here's a hint: Living in chronically under-served and economically deprived neighborhoods might have something to do with it. And better trained law enforcement officers probably help the situation along as well.
The shoe is not always worn on one foot.
1
We keep hearing these stories and these stats. We have a black president, a black woman as head of the justice department appointed after the former head who was also a black man. Is there anybody intelligent enough to seriously study this and correct these problems? It is a large task, but surely we can find or at least work toward solutions. Cameras do not seem to be enough. I have in my lifetime as a white female been stopped on moving violations several times. I remember only one where, the officer was cold and abrupt, but professional and I comported with his instruction. I don't have experience with driving while black, but I want to know what is going on under the covers and only an intelligent, unbiased investigation can give me the answers. We need this now.
2
@WonderHC Los Angeles
Unfortunately, the fact that President Obama and Ms. Lynch are in higher elective offices has little effect on what goes on in local jurisdictions on a day-to-day basis.
Federal laws may be put forth, even passed and enacted, but there is no guarantee that will change common practices that have been in effect over the years.
But you are right. We need this now.
Unfortunately, the fact that President Obama and Ms. Lynch are in higher elective offices has little effect on what goes on in local jurisdictions on a day-to-day basis.
Federal laws may be put forth, even passed and enacted, but there is no guarantee that will change common practices that have been in effect over the years.
But you are right. We need this now.
3
I keep hearing that "most police officers do their jobs fairly and honestly," or words to that effect. This "few bad apples" argument has been worn out. How is it that after all these years police departments in smaller towns like Ferguson and bigger cities like Baltimore have not come up with methods of getting rid of the "few bad apples" before they commit outrages like the ones committed in Ferguson and Baltimore? If it really is just a few officers who are the problem, that should not be impossible. If the problem is much more widespread, however, it may be.
8
Crips, Bloods, KKK, Sovereign Citizens, Badgethugs. All violent, all consider themselves above the law, all sustained by society in legal or extra-legal ways. If they were to limit their predations to each other, we might all in all be a safer society.
It is hard to believe that many of us would be safer without police, as many now assert. I could have never imagined such an idea in the past - I grew up with relatives who were LEOs. But now I am not sure whether I want them on my property or my routes of travel. I grew up also in a rural setting in which self-protection was necessarily one's own responsibility. If the police forces do not purge the badgethugs from their ranks, we may again be on our own.
It is hard to believe that many of us would be safer without police, as many now assert. I could have never imagined such an idea in the past - I grew up with relatives who were LEOs. But now I am not sure whether I want them on my property or my routes of travel. I grew up also in a rural setting in which self-protection was necessarily one's own responsibility. If the police forces do not purge the badgethugs from their ranks, we may again be on our own.
6
Agreed. We need far fewer police. Moving violations like running red lights can be caught by cameras and tickets sent to drivers' homes. This takes away the face to face interactions with their potential for escalating confrontation. Safer for drivers and for cops. The same can be done for stop signs. The only traffic violations that really matter are moving violations.
1
Whoa! Running red lights and not honoring stop signs are not important? Think about that if you are ever in an accident because another driver ran a red light or failed to stop.
Alas, too, the technology for red light and speed cameras is not infallible. Read about the fiasco with speed and red light cameras in Baltimore. Cars that were actually stopped were identified as moving and jumping red lights.
It is true traffic stops can result in increased chance of confrontation but articles about such confrontations must be placed in context. How many traffic stops are made annually, nationally? How many of them result in confrontation? This article tells part of the story. And it presents a reality that whites do not experience. Some of the individual stories may not be entirely convincing. A stop for lack of registration and failure to flag a load on the back of a truck seems like a justifiable stop and "minor" only in the opinion of the author. But the escalation is what should give us pause. One of the young men described in another illustration stated that he responded to a cop with a curse. Why?
But, while some of the cases described in this article may be imperfect representatives of unjustifiable stops, the poor illustrations do not negate the overall statistics of disproportionate stops. We also need to study the characteristics of police and public interaction that are respectful and apply them to all situations, not just stops.
Alas, too, the technology for red light and speed cameras is not infallible. Read about the fiasco with speed and red light cameras in Baltimore. Cars that were actually stopped were identified as moving and jumping red lights.
It is true traffic stops can result in increased chance of confrontation but articles about such confrontations must be placed in context. How many traffic stops are made annually, nationally? How many of them result in confrontation? This article tells part of the story. And it presents a reality that whites do not experience. Some of the individual stories may not be entirely convincing. A stop for lack of registration and failure to flag a load on the back of a truck seems like a justifiable stop and "minor" only in the opinion of the author. But the escalation is what should give us pause. One of the young men described in another illustration stated that he responded to a cop with a curse. Why?
But, while some of the cases described in this article may be imperfect representatives of unjustifiable stops, the poor illustrations do not negate the overall statistics of disproportionate stops. We also need to study the characteristics of police and public interaction that are respectful and apply them to all situations, not just stops.
1
First,minor infractions are still serious because driving is serious lights turn signals are important to relay to other drivers intentions and including lic plates ,you may get pulled over. Since White folks get pulled over and arrested more often why are'nt they all complaining .
2
"Greensboro has long cherished its reputation as a Southern progressive standout. This was the first Southern city to pledge to integrate its schools after the Supreme Court’s 1954 decision in Brown v. Board of Education, although it was among the last to actually do so."
We all should remember that the next time we hear righteous-sounding expressions of outrage and pledges to reform from people whom we know, from pattern and practice, we should not trust.
We all should remember that the next time we hear righteous-sounding expressions of outrage and pledges to reform from people whom we know, from pattern and practice, we should not trust.
4
Interestingly, had the Greensboro Four made their stand at the counter today, the outcome would likely have been very different.
1
But you need to also do some research and talk to police officers about WHY they do this, their thinking and the reasons behind it. It can't be that they are all just racists. Drumming into everyone's minds that police officers are just racist and "bad" is not the solution to this problem. If police officers, in their own experience, see that minorities are the ones committing most of the crimes in their county, of course they are going to "stereotype." They are human beings and human beings naturally form steretoypes based on what they see daily. Until those in the lower economic status (which are mostly minorities) raise themselves up and above violence and crimes, then yes police officers will stereotype because as I said before, that is a natural human reaction. If you don't want to be stopped disproportionately, stop committing crimes disproportionately. Both sides of this issue needs to be looked at, including getting honest explanations from police officers.
10
I'm in my 40s. Even in my 20s, I saw minority(Indian and Caribbean) taxi drivers get roughed up by drunk, and abusive police officers. Today, I still see the disparaging differences, how White's are treated by cops, compared to that of Black's. My respect for the uniform is now virtually null, because of this and my own interactions with the police; the times I have come into contact with them, they present as vulgar, with nasty attitudes. I would be scared to call a police officer in a time of trouble.
8
Drunk Abusive police officers. Sure. ONE EXAMPLE? DATE?
2
@Chris nowhere I can tell you
Out of curiosity. Are you doubting that such a thing doesn't ever happen?
Out of curiosity. Are you doubting that such a thing doesn't ever happen?
1
When the NYT chooses to have strong political beliefs as demonstrated on its Editorial page daily, its political bias undermines its credibility of performing an unbiased"analysis by the New York Times" of statistics.
You can't have it both ways.
You can't have it both ways.
12
@jck nj
Coming to the defense of the New York Times; luckily for its readers, they can make a comment about what appears on the Editorial page, including whether they agree with it, or not.
However the subject matter is left entirely up to the Editors. That in a way, is having it both ways.
Coming to the defense of the New York Times; luckily for its readers, they can make a comment about what appears on the Editorial page, including whether they agree with it, or not.
However the subject matter is left entirely up to the Editors. That in a way, is having it both ways.
1
Chief Scott says, “Numbers don’t say it all.” That may be true, but it's still a pretty good indicator. So does the inverse, which I've also heard personally: "Cops don't lie."
I'm an affluent white man in my 50s. I've been an executive in derivatives trading on Wall St for 30 years and am now a senior partner in a Connecticut hedge fund. My wife and I have three college age children.
A long time ago we agreed to never call the police to our home for any reason. We understood and accepted that it meant would were abdicating the services police offer, but we felt the risk of involving the police in our lives was a worthwhile tradeoff.
A long time ago we agreed to never call the police to our home for any reason. We understood and accepted that it meant would were abdicating the services police offer, but we felt the risk of involving the police in our lives was a worthwhile tradeoff.
15
Good idea.
2
Dan, you really have a point. I can think of three situations in which police have caused more harm than good. In Raleigh NC our neighbor's daughter in her early teens was dropped off at home by a friend, she went into her bathroom and took a shower, her parents were not home but her tween brother was. Brother called 911 thinking she was an intruder and cops came and put her on the floor and cuffed her, a young girl with wet hair in her pajamas, it happened. What about people who call the police, their dog goes to the door tail wagging and the police shoot their dog? What about the mother in New Jersey, fearing for her distraught adult son who had driven in from another state after his marriage broke up? She just wanted the cops to help him and he almost went to prison for seven years because he had packed some guns in the trunk of his car when he moved out. What about the Univerity of Virginia student who had several ABC agents go all SWAT on her because they thought her Lacroix sparkling water was beer. She was arrested and jailed. Oh, that's four situations, not three.
If I am walking down the street and, seeing a group of 3 African American men in their early 20s, decide to cross the street - am I "racist"?
Okay, now change the fact pattern - what if in the example I'm a woman? Different now - why?
Trying to discuss this issue without discussing the higher crime rates of young black males is what happens when you let political science and journalism majors analyze social problems - you get a white washed, politically correct contrived narrative that doesn't correspond to the real world.
Hence, no solutions based in that real world.
Okay, now change the fact pattern - what if in the example I'm a woman? Different now - why?
Trying to discuss this issue without discussing the higher crime rates of young black males is what happens when you let political science and journalism majors analyze social problems - you get a white washed, politically correct contrived narrative that doesn't correspond to the real world.
Hence, no solutions based in that real world.
14
Your attitude does, indeed, indicate that you are a racist.
10
Judging from your comments you may be a person from an ethnic group that may fallS outside of the targeted group but the article focuses on. I don't believe that this article was creat for you. I am of the opinion that this article hits on issues that arm similar but often overlooked. For example does the targeting of blacks create an increased number of trumped-up cases within the judicial system. If this is the case how does this affect mainstream society that gets looped into these cases by becoming jurors against the very same blacks that have been targeted? I agree with this article it does not need to be a discussion about the content of the article we need to investigate and sort out and identify all of the areas Of policing that takes advantage of minorities. If policing is unjust we should root out the issues and correct them.
4
@Stacey I am not sure your definition of racism sqaures with mine, but might I guess that, were I a woman crossing the street, I'm no longer racist, I'm just "being cautious" or some such?
Can it be "racist" and yet not "sexist"?
See, I think the Left has absolutely tortured the definition of 'racist' and uses the term as ad hominem, almost without any thought at all.
Can it be "racist" and yet not "sexist"?
See, I think the Left has absolutely tortured the definition of 'racist' and uses the term as ad hominem, almost without any thought at all.
3
1. It is the south. It is Greensboro...why would you expect anything else.
2. There are likely only a hand full of good police officers nationwide, most are criminals with the color of authority. Sadly those officers who are not corrupt soon bend to the corruption of the police departments and systems which punishes them for fairness and upholding the law.
2. There are likely only a hand full of good police officers nationwide, most are criminals with the color of authority. Sadly those officers who are not corrupt soon bend to the corruption of the police departments and systems which punishes them for fairness and upholding the law.
6
@TruthBeTold New Jersey
Sadly, this doesn't only happen in the South and in Greensboro.
Sadly, this doesn't only happen in the South and in Greensboro.
4
More like MythBeTold.
1
So the truck displayed no plate or flag so the occupants got roughed up? Seems like paragraphs may be missing from the narrative.
5
Every year the US Department of State publishes a list of countries deem to have violated human rights. US government officials and elected officials make a habit of criticizing and naming other countries and governments for alleged violations of human rights. Yet human rights and constitutional rights of US citizens are being violated with impunity by police officers across this country, which resulted in deaths, injuries, legal costs, and emotional scars of those US citizens unfortunate enough to encounter police officers.
It is no wonder that whenever US government officials criticize other governments and countries for alleged human rights violations, they are being told to look at what happens in American cities and communities, that their criticism is politically motivated, and that they are practicing a double standards in human rights. The truth is the US was, is and will never be a champion of human rights as long as US citizens' human / individual rights are violated by their police officers and by extension their own local and federal governments.
It is no wonder that whenever US government officials criticize other governments and countries for alleged human rights violations, they are being told to look at what happens in American cities and communities, that their criticism is politically motivated, and that they are practicing a double standards in human rights. The truth is the US was, is and will never be a champion of human rights as long as US citizens' human / individual rights are violated by their police officers and by extension their own local and federal governments.
8
If police officers were not so protected by their unions, it would be so much easier to discipline bullies and if need be fire them for misconduct. That way they would not sully the reputation of the rest of the force. Psychological evaluations for police applicants would also help. Of course if more "good" officers were truthful about the bad behavior of the bullies we would all be better off. Police officers are often angry and scared of each other too. When you are exposed to so much of the bad side of people such as being repeatedly called to crime scenes or reports of suspicious behavior it tends to make one jaded. The same thing occurs to people being bullied by police, prejudice and stereotyping is not limited to police officers. Generally throughout the world people in authority are often thought of badly and accused of misusing their authority, including police, military, City Hall, the 1%, union bosses, big business, white people.
The police mentality is that the more people they search, the more crime they solve. It is a Big Brother mentality to think that everybody is guilty, we just haven't caught them yet. Our country was founded on the idea that government oppresses and limits must be placed on its authority. Making too many laws, rules and regulations ensures inequality because they will not all be enforced and the authorities will use their discretion.
The police mentality is that the more people they search, the more crime they solve. It is a Big Brother mentality to think that everybody is guilty, we just haven't caught them yet. Our country was founded on the idea that government oppresses and limits must be placed on its authority. Making too many laws, rules and regulations ensures inequality because they will not all be enforced and the authorities will use their discretion.
6
I'm a middle aged white male. From the time I was twelve years old and was stopped on my bicycle in my suburban town for running a stop sign on a small street and lectured rudely (I'm not joking), to the few times that I've approached police officers in NYC asking for help or directions, I've encountered a scary kind of half-insane rudeness. Sorry, just my experience. And when I have approached them, I've been polite almost to the point of bowing. Still this crazy, weird, animal-like rudeness. (Police out there, WHY this rudeness? I'm sure they're are good police, but I'm not sure I agree with this idea that they're in the majority) And I had the interesting and eye-opening experience of growing up with my black brother (who was adopted as an infant), so I've seen that his experiences with police, which were much worse. In the neighborhood where we grew up, he was stopped, thrown against the car and searched for going a couple miles over the speed limit. Another time he was trying to fix his car in a parking lot and was met with two or three police cars and a helicopter over head shining his spotlight at him. So in my experience, you better be careful with cops---if you're white, they're just plain rude and scary, if you're black they're rude and scary and likely abusive and even deadly.
18
"Driving while Black"—does that infer one can change to driving while White?
Shouldn't the byline be "The Disproportionate Risks faced by Black drivers"?
Shouldn't the byline be "The Disproportionate Risks faced by Black drivers"?
2
EQUAL JUSTICE Are police officers in training and on the force reminded ever of the Constitutional right to equal access to the law? The behavior described here and elsewhere of police interactions with persons of color fit the very definition of racial profiling. Beyond that, videos I've seen of police stops of persons of color clearly demonstrate that the officers are agitated and clearly expressing an intense level of anger that does not mirror the mostly cooperative responses of minority persons to the requests of the police. The human brain is so-constructed that agitation is processed through the amygdala; it is a fight-or-flight interaction that is based on reflexive reactions. It requires a delay of several seconds for the officers to approach persons stopped in a calm manner that allows them to access the executive functions of the prefrontal cortex, where the higher mental processes occur. To put it directly, persons of color who are stopped are shown to be subjected to reflexive, unthinking behavior by the police. Changes in police training and supervision can remedy the situation. For example, if police trainers are persons of color and can demonstrate calm, cooperative and respectful behavior, could help stem the tide of police brutality and violence during routine traffic stops. Police forces across the nation must be brought to accept these standards and must be taught to respect the humanity and rights of minority persons they address.
6
Authoritarian Americans don't support the police because they are concerned about traffic safety. They crave obedience and punishment. If they were concerned about safety, there are much better ways to ensure it than our current system of enforcement. Look at what teachers do with classroom management--the best way to enforce rules is to have CONSISTENT enforcement. You don't need to have high levels of punishment. a 5-minute timeout or loss of part of a recess hour does as much good as more draconian punishment. They key is consistency. Right now our traffic laws are enforced so inconsistently--almost everybody breaks them multiple times a day (read the article)--that receiving a ticket seems less a penalty than an irrational act of nature. That's why nobody obeys them (try raising your kids that way--mostly letting them get away with stuff, and then occasionally screaming at them, and see how far it gets you).
That's the way the privileged want it--they want to be able to speed when they want, and at the same time judge and punish the poor, who are more likely to be stopped and given a ticket and less likely to know to refuse a search when they break them. OMG they didn't use a turn signal! I would never do that! Butter doesn't melt in their mouths.
If the traffic laws are bad change them. if the speeds are too low raise them. Otherwise we should move to a completely consistent, absolutely fair system of computer enforcement. Only that will make the roads safer.
That's the way the privileged want it--they want to be able to speed when they want, and at the same time judge and punish the poor, who are more likely to be stopped and given a ticket and less likely to know to refuse a search when they break them. OMG they didn't use a turn signal! I would never do that! Butter doesn't melt in their mouths.
If the traffic laws are bad change them. if the speeds are too low raise them. Otherwise we should move to a completely consistent, absolutely fair system of computer enforcement. Only that will make the roads safer.
8
DWB has been a fact of life in America since the automobile became affordable for the masses. After moving to the Saint Louis suburbs from NorCal in the 80's, a white native neighbor told me how it worked. "If you're black and driving through Ladue township, you'd better be wearing a maid's uniform or towing a trailer with landscaping tools". 1980 Saint Louis suburbs certainly weren't "everywhere" America at the time but they partly represented a broad swath of American life that is now established in purely economic terms. After first visiting Saint Louis in 1980 I can even now recall my shock at seeing poverty-stricken East Saint Louis (Illinois), North Saint Louis, and (still) devastated neighborhoods in the city. Things have changed but not much. Effectively erasing the problems that slavery gave us will take many more generations but unequal policing is a good place to start. Doing so has been made immensely more difficult through the imprisonment and criminalizing of millions of young black men from the 1980's on. What does a cop immediately think when seeing a 18-40 year old black male driving in a predominately white middle class (what's left of it) town that pays his salary? More important, what should he think, and how should he act? And how do we pay for smarter policing?
8
There is no question that police treat Blacks differently than Whites. It is time for policemen to be trained differently and video all these stops. It is time for all the good, decent policemen to stop protecting those who are not following the law and going after African-American individuals. It is time for independent prosecutors to do the investigations.
8
This article discusses the racial discrimination of blacks and the purported 'better' treatment of whites. Duly noted. However then a fascinating fact is uttered w/o comment that may bring the premise to a questionable halt. "Blacks are stopped for minor traffic violations more than whites but are let go more often than whites." Surely, if the discrimination were solely a black/white issue then blacks would be let go LESS than whites. But this is not the case. Something else here is going on and needs to be investigated. Simply because this piece of information does not fit in with the basic narrative of racial discrimination, the writer glosses over this important piece of data.
1
Citing something as a "fascinating fact" doesn't actually make it factual. Care to cite a source?
1
i think police officers should make more foot patrols in troubled neighborhoods. They should stop in and chat with store owners, they should buy coffee and doughnuts and eat lunch right there. They should engage residents in conversation. These encounters should be as "normal" as possible; friendly is better. Build trust.
In addition, if an officer stops a driver and finds no offenses, then the alternative to making up one is to just say "Thanks for your cooperation, sir; I do appreciate it. I apologize for the inconvenience. Have a nice day." Is that so hard? Saves time, money, and, more importantly, face.
A few applications of courtesy and politeness can go a very long way!
In addition, if an officer stops a driver and finds no offenses, then the alternative to making up one is to just say "Thanks for your cooperation, sir; I do appreciate it. I apologize for the inconvenience. Have a nice day." Is that so hard? Saves time, money, and, more importantly, face.
A few applications of courtesy and politeness can go a very long way!
31
Agreed. My step-father was a detective in New Haven through the worst of periods 70s, 80s, and early 90s. He describes cordial relationships with members of the community as he spoke to folks and knew their names. He was not afraid of the people of color (predominantly Black) that he serviced. This connection to people first and the community they live in is sorely needed.
1
I'm a harmless-looking middle-age white woman living in an affluent suburb and I feel uncomfortable when I see a cop around. Especially today's militaristic type; they've swapped "protect and serve" low-key sedans for tinted-window SUVs bristling with antennae, even in our virtually crime-free little enclave.
Can't even imagine the discomfort that black citizens must feel. What a travesty "law enforcement" has become and what a miserable police state we are marching toward.
Can't even imagine the discomfort that black citizens must feel. What a travesty "law enforcement" has become and what a miserable police state we are marching toward.
21
I think most people have realized that anyone of us could be a victim from a police officer who wears a badge. And he is allowed to say whatever he wants to you. It has become a way to turn ordinary lives into nightmares for innocent people. Sad but true.
5
How an officer concludes a traffic stop, especially one with a search is critical. More often than not, what police think is suspicious is not.
So cops, who are paid to be suspicious, need to be careful about needlessly escalating an event, or potentially confirming, by their very tone of voice, a driver’s racially tinged assumptions. Descrimination against anyone is wrong, ethically, morally and legally and this should be the first sentence in any Police department code of conduct.
So cops, who are paid to be suspicious, need to be careful about needlessly escalating an event, or potentially confirming, by their very tone of voice, a driver’s racially tinged assumptions. Descrimination against anyone is wrong, ethically, morally and legally and this should be the first sentence in any Police department code of conduct.
7
African Americans are not the only victims of this practice, and it is pervasive across the USA. Police departments should be forced to publish relevant data every quarter, monitored strictly, and errand officers disciplined.
5
Absolutely.
1
"Greensboro equipped all of its officers with body cameras and required them to film any searches. But those videotapes are confidential, too."
That about sums up the situation from us citizens' standpoint: Worse than no camera at all.
As important as having these cameras in universal use (they are cheaper than the guns and Tasers provided to officers) is the requirement that the videos be available in any investigation by the police department to the persons charged and eventually the public.
Otherwise they are a waste of time and a total sham, a slap in the face to a major segment of the American community that has known universally what the statistics in this article validate and which has been so since America began, illegally so since 1964.
This ol white guy has had a lot of friends in the black community over the years, all the way back to serving in Vietnam with them at my side and in far greater proportional numbers in some units than their white counterparts due to the similarly racist bias of the Draft.
For as long as I can remember my friends on the other side of our still insidious color line have routinely told me what they must tell their own children, especially boys about what to expect with any police encounter.
Enough! Like so many wrongs that are historically routine, it is time to stop talking and start doing and fixing. Body cams properly used are a start. They protect both the 95% of our good cops and our good citizens, regardless of color.
That about sums up the situation from us citizens' standpoint: Worse than no camera at all.
As important as having these cameras in universal use (they are cheaper than the guns and Tasers provided to officers) is the requirement that the videos be available in any investigation by the police department to the persons charged and eventually the public.
Otherwise they are a waste of time and a total sham, a slap in the face to a major segment of the American community that has known universally what the statistics in this article validate and which has been so since America began, illegally so since 1964.
This ol white guy has had a lot of friends in the black community over the years, all the way back to serving in Vietnam with them at my side and in far greater proportional numbers in some units than their white counterparts due to the similarly racist bias of the Draft.
For as long as I can remember my friends on the other side of our still insidious color line have routinely told me what they must tell their own children, especially boys about what to expect with any police encounter.
Enough! Like so many wrongs that are historically routine, it is time to stop talking and start doing and fixing. Body cams properly used are a start. They protect both the 95% of our good cops and our good citizens, regardless of color.
8
Thank you!
1
The idea of the cameras, is so the police, on those rare occasions, are able to prove their actions were legal.
When the video shows police abusing a law abiding citizen, they will do everything imaginable to prevent anyone from viewing it, including doctoring the video, if a court order mandates it's release.
We live, for the most part, in a corrupt police state, which has been rotting, from the head down, for the past few decades.
Millions upon millions of us know this to be the reality, and those who have no problem with this state of affairs, are near the top of the food chain, beholden to the .01%ters.
It's infuriating to see what our nation has become; we are almost at the point of no return, monitored 24/7/365, become economic slaves, working longer hours for less money, with no time available to think about the injustice of it all.
Corporate America owns and controls our government, lock, stock, and barrell, consequently in full control of the citizenry.
Opportunity to do anything about it has been taken away from us; the Supreme Court has torn the heart out of our ability to make our vote count, through its decision giving corporations the same rights as individuals, able to make unlimited monetary contributions, to whomever they wish to place in office, which includes every election from the Presidency down to the local level.
This will not end well.
When the video shows police abusing a law abiding citizen, they will do everything imaginable to prevent anyone from viewing it, including doctoring the video, if a court order mandates it's release.
We live, for the most part, in a corrupt police state, which has been rotting, from the head down, for the past few decades.
Millions upon millions of us know this to be the reality, and those who have no problem with this state of affairs, are near the top of the food chain, beholden to the .01%ters.
It's infuriating to see what our nation has become; we are almost at the point of no return, monitored 24/7/365, become economic slaves, working longer hours for less money, with no time available to think about the injustice of it all.
Corporate America owns and controls our government, lock, stock, and barrell, consequently in full control of the citizenry.
Opportunity to do anything about it has been taken away from us; the Supreme Court has torn the heart out of our ability to make our vote count, through its decision giving corporations the same rights as individuals, able to make unlimited monetary contributions, to whomever they wish to place in office, which includes every election from the Presidency down to the local level.
This will not end well.
2
America, Wake up!
This got to stop.
I live in a very low-crime multicultural residential area, and have a friend who resembles A-Rod. He's a very hard-working, conscientious, and decent human being who works in Fortune 500 company. But for whatever reason, he gets pulled over numerous times yearly for no apparent reason. In contrast to that, I was never pulled over in the last 6 years. In fact, as far as I know, no Asian or White friends ever got pulled over unless there's some violation. But black and Hispanic friends get pulled over EVEN IF THERE'S NO VIOLATION. The officer is busy making up impromptu violation that is so trivial that the officer should be punished for wasting time on that. 7-8 out of 10 cars that I see pulled over on the street, they are often dark-skinned driver.
Come on!!! That kind of pull over rate doesn't correlate with none of the crime rate or race distribution in this region. It's simply racist. You are targeting the easiest prey that you can harass and get away with. It's unconstitutional. And it makes law abiding, hard-working citizens to be afraid and distrustful of LEO. My friend has loads of LEO friends, and he's still afraid and distrustful of LEO. And that makes ME get angry and distrustful of LEO as well.
If this ridiculousness happens in my multi-cultural neighborhood, I can't imagine what kind of egregious stuff could happen in segregated area.
There's no excuse for this discrimination. IT GOT TO STOP.
This got to stop.
I live in a very low-crime multicultural residential area, and have a friend who resembles A-Rod. He's a very hard-working, conscientious, and decent human being who works in Fortune 500 company. But for whatever reason, he gets pulled over numerous times yearly for no apparent reason. In contrast to that, I was never pulled over in the last 6 years. In fact, as far as I know, no Asian or White friends ever got pulled over unless there's some violation. But black and Hispanic friends get pulled over EVEN IF THERE'S NO VIOLATION. The officer is busy making up impromptu violation that is so trivial that the officer should be punished for wasting time on that. 7-8 out of 10 cars that I see pulled over on the street, they are often dark-skinned driver.
Come on!!! That kind of pull over rate doesn't correlate with none of the crime rate or race distribution in this region. It's simply racist. You are targeting the easiest prey that you can harass and get away with. It's unconstitutional. And it makes law abiding, hard-working citizens to be afraid and distrustful of LEO. My friend has loads of LEO friends, and he's still afraid and distrustful of LEO. And that makes ME get angry and distrustful of LEO as well.
If this ridiculousness happens in my multi-cultural neighborhood, I can't imagine what kind of egregious stuff could happen in segregated area.
There's no excuse for this discrimination. IT GOT TO STOP.
20
Thank you for standing up for equality. If everyone stood up for the right thing to do.We could slowly eradicate this type of unjust in America.
3
"But for whatever reason, he gets pulled over." I'd start there. Ask him why. Maybe he drives fast. Maybe he hasn't registered his car. Finding out why he's pulled over is Step 1 in figuring out what's going on.
Micjas,
Phoenix, Arizona.
Isn't your state one of those, wbere its police routinely stop vehicles for no apparent reason, get permission from the unwitting driver, to search the driver and the vehicle, and if cash is found, any quantity, they confiscate it, and the victim of this unconstitutional activity has to sue to get his money back, and nine times out of ten, he or she is lucky to get 50% of it back.
Phoenix, Arizona.
Isn't your state one of those, wbere its police routinely stop vehicles for no apparent reason, get permission from the unwitting driver, to search the driver and the vehicle, and if cash is found, any quantity, they confiscate it, and the victim of this unconstitutional activity has to sue to get his money back, and nine times out of ten, he or she is lucky to get 50% of it back.
1
Let's consider the historical roots of this problem Imagine you’re a Black family driving to a reunion across mid-20th century America. You faced humiliation, insults and fear of being stranded without travel essentials. Racist social codes made “driving while black” a hazard in some locales. Fortunately you could turn to the "bible of black travel during Jim Crow" - the “Negro Travelers’ Green Book.” More http://bit.ly/1zi3zSB
The “Green Book” as it was commonly known, was created by Victor H. Green, an enterprising New York mailman and Black-American travel agent. First launched in 1936 as a New York-focused edition, Green eventually expanded coverage to all of North America and the Caribbean.
The “Green Book” as it was commonly known, was created by Victor H. Green, an enterprising New York mailman and Black-American travel agent. First launched in 1936 as a New York-focused edition, Green eventually expanded coverage to all of North America and the Caribbean.
9
Wonderful, thank you for the link http://bit.ly/1zi3zSB . So interesting and yet so appalling that it was needed and so shocking that so little of the mindset and worldview that made prejudice and racism acceptable has changed. Someone needs to bring out a version for today's travelers.
3
Very interesting article
Since when is expired plates a minor infraction. It is a moving violation and might mean no insurance or other violations. I am sick of the media starting with a false premise and going downhill from there on. Stop making excuses for unlawful action. The police had every right and a duty to stop that vehicle. If you want to make a point start with a rational example. Journalism 101.
4
You obviously did not read the article, the statistics, or consider the nuances of racial profiling. There is real data in this article and yet you still deny, deny, deny!
Willful ignorance is the catalyst for racism.
Willful ignorance is the catalyst for racism.
1
First, driving with expired license plate tags IS NOT a moving violation as LEGALLY PARKED vehicles casn be ticketed and impounded for this licensing violation. And while ticketing a driver for operating a vehicle for expired tags is lawful, tasering a unarmed driver and physically dragging them from their vehicle is crminially excessive force.
I'm certain there would be a deafening cresendo of verbal outrage if a white taxpayer was tasered by the IRS and drasgged off to federal custody for reaching for their documernts or pen during a routine audit in their offices.
I'm certain there would be a deafening cresendo of verbal outrage if a white taxpayer was tasered by the IRS and drasgged off to federal custody for reaching for their documernts or pen during a routine audit in their offices.
I have no doubt that in many locations minorities are targeted far more than whites, and I am not defending the mindsets that result in such an imbalance. I would like to note, however, that when small foreign sports cars zoom by me at 100 mph on crowded highways around New York - endangering everyone on the road in selfish displays of macho - the drivers are invariably young minority males. The disproportionate risk in that scenario is borne by the innocent motorists unlucky enough to be on the same road with them.
2
This isn't very believable. I'm not sure how you can get a good enough look at their faces if they are zooming past at 100 mph, but I also drive around the highways of NY and I have seen many white drivers speeding along in zippy foreign cars. Your use of the term "invariably" makes you sound like a prejudiced fibber.
8
I must say, reading all of the comments on this article has been far more educational than the actual study and article itself.
It is fairly safe to assume that anyone who reads a newspaper, or follows current events realizes that there is a distinct pattern between violent police behavior in certain communities, and towards persons of a certain skin color.
Not too long ago, a former Tennis Pro was mistakenly thrown to the ground by a New York City police officer for doing nothing more than "looking like the suspect".
And he wasn't even driving a car.
All that to say this, what we have here is a real problem. It will not go away with studies, articles, or comments. However it might change with a more pro-active change in policing tactics that will educate officers to address citizens more like human beings, and less like a profile, a skin color, or a summons quota.
It is fairly safe to assume that anyone who reads a newspaper, or follows current events realizes that there is a distinct pattern between violent police behavior in certain communities, and towards persons of a certain skin color.
Not too long ago, a former Tennis Pro was mistakenly thrown to the ground by a New York City police officer for doing nothing more than "looking like the suspect".
And he wasn't even driving a car.
All that to say this, what we have here is a real problem. It will not go away with studies, articles, or comments. However it might change with a more pro-active change in policing tactics that will educate officers to address citizens more like human beings, and less like a profile, a skin color, or a summons quota.
7
"It is fairly safe to assume that anyone who reads a newspaper, or follows current events realizes that there is a distinct pattern between violent police behavior in certain communities, and towards persons of a certain skin color."
I hope your seatbelt is fastened, N.Smith, before veering over into the grampy lane traveled by a significant number of the commenters here.
To quote James Baldwin: "...They are, in effect, still trapped in a history which they do not understand; and until they understand it, they cannot be released from it. They have had to believe for many years, and for innumerable reasons, that black men are inferior to white men. Many of them, indeed, know better, but, as you will discover, people find it very difficult to act on what they know. To act is to be committed, and to be committed is to be in danger. In this case, the danger, in the minds of most white Americans, is the loss of their identity."
--James Baldwin, The Fire Next Time
I hope your seatbelt is fastened, N.Smith, before veering over into the grampy lane traveled by a significant number of the commenters here.
To quote James Baldwin: "...They are, in effect, still trapped in a history which they do not understand; and until they understand it, they cannot be released from it. They have had to believe for many years, and for innumerable reasons, that black men are inferior to white men. Many of them, indeed, know better, but, as you will discover, people find it very difficult to act on what they know. To act is to be committed, and to be committed is to be in danger. In this case, the danger, in the minds of most white Americans, is the loss of their identity."
--James Baldwin, The Fire Next Time
2
Um, did you actually read all of N. Smith's comment? S/he is not your adversary on this issue.
1
@Gus Hell's Kitchen NYC
Let's put it this way. I would rather like to assume that people in this day and age are well informed. But I am not quite sure what a "grampy lane" is. Please verify.
And by the way, you are preaching to the choir.
Let's put it this way. I would rather like to assume that people in this day and age are well informed. But I am not quite sure what a "grampy lane" is. Please verify.
And by the way, you are preaching to the choir.
2
Most poor African Americans understand that virtually any encounter with police is likely to involve anything from their humiliation and submission to thier being the victim of brutal or even lethal violence. It is the shame of America.
14
There are no discussions related to the social economic background and education level of the people who becomes police officers. It would be more interesting to know whether these racial profiling arrests are simply a reflection of their racial attitudes which cannot be altered through regular police training.
5
I Believe it is only a 4 or 5 month training course. They have very little training. Most people change once they take these courses because it teaches you that it is them against us mentality. Evidently there are orders coming in from the upper level of government to eliminate black people and as many democrats as possible so they can win the election in 2016. We need to start taking a poll on what party the deceased persons are who are being murdered, to see if there is a link there. I hope that a reporter or group picksbip on this information.
I have lived in London for a decade now, and one of the most striking difference when i return to the States is the attitudes of the police officers. In the U.S they exude fear, aggression, and are bullying. In London, the police force is meant to be helpful and are a positive addition to the neighborhood, as they are friendly and easily approachable. I feel safe as I believe they have the citizen's interests at heart. Last year I witnessed two "gang leaders" fighting and when the police cars pulled up, I was amazed to see that each police officer put his ( and her) arms around the hostile young men's shoulders pulling, gently guiding them away from each other, and proceeded to have a long chat with each them, until they calmed them. After fifteen minutes or so, everyone dispersed. When possible, it is best to respond to aggression with peace and kind words and serve as a good role model to the community.
58
No doubt, a kind word is all it took and the "gang leaders" became BFFs and never fought again.
Right.
Right.
Great post. The same situation you describe, had it happened in the US, arrival of the police almost invariably would led to an escalation of violence.
What a refreshing story and example.
Minorities are not the only targets of police profiling. I am a white female who drove a red Mustang in Arizona. I was pulled over so many times I lost track. On every occasion, I was innocent of any offense and had a clean driving record, yet I was frequently detained. Once I was pulled over for supposedly invalid tags, though I had brand new valid ones. Another time I was pulled over for speeding when I wasn't, and the officer became very angry when I had trouble locating my wallet in my purse, but it was nighttime and he was shining a large flashlight right in my face. He forced me out of the car. Another time I was detained on the freeway by an officer who used words like "girlie." Yet another time I was pulled over by a patrol car and 27 motorcycle trainee cops, sitting on the side of a road looking like a criminal over nothing. Many other times I was followed at close range for miles at a time. Once a fellow teacher at the local college was the victim of another driver's anger. He tried to run her off the road for having an anti-Bush sticker on her car. A policeman observed the incident and pulled HER over, telling her that she was creating a traffic hazard and had to remove the sticker. On all occasions, the officers were male. These are just a few of many examples. It was never pleasant to be a female driver in Arizona.
7
Racial minorities are not the only victims of police misconduct, to be sure. But the issue breaks disproportionately along racial lines. It is important to remember that.
1
One observation I'd like to make about the practice of policing in every right wing jurisdiction (and as a Canadian, I'd call even Democrat areas of the U.S. right wing jurisdictions) is that more aggressive and prosecution is always seen as the solution to the problem of 'increasing' crime (the quotes are due to how increasing prosecutions for minor offences is portrayed as an increase in the occurrence of those offences rather than a political decision) but when the crime rate drops (due as often as not to the cyclical nature of the factors of poverty, demographic shifts in age distribution, etc) the increased aggressiveness of policing and prosecution is maintained as the new normal. While this doesn't seem to be a racial problem at first glance, the effects of racism means that the consequences of the aggressiveness are disproportionately felt by those who are subjected to the racism.
3
The comment of the young man that he wouldn't call a police officer even if he needed one is wise. As a general rule, staying away from police officers and avoiding any involvement with them is a good thing if you prefer not to be arrested, Tasered, shot or jailed. Now, please keep in mind, I am not trying to paint all officers with a broad bush. I'm just saying that, as a citizen, the less involvement, the better.
I write this having spent many hours with officers as a reporter, but knowing they can turn on you in a moment. Further, in America police are very quick to use force and when they use force, they don't stop.
They have a host of phony charges to throw against someone to put the arrestee on the legal defensive: disturbing the peace, resisting arrest, assault on an officer. "Resisting" can be trying to keep your arm from being broken when an officer tries to twist it violently to put on cuffs. "Assault" is any movement other than lying face down in the dirt and waiting to be handcuffed.
Through police tactics, through their training to be "professional", through the pride that commanders take in getting their officers "home safely", through, yes, racial assumptions and prejudice, we have lost our sense of being respectful citizens of the same nation. Everyone is a potential "perp".
Stopping as many people as possible is not positive police work, it is constant harassment that turns into economic and social repression.
I write this having spent many hours with officers as a reporter, but knowing they can turn on you in a moment. Further, in America police are very quick to use force and when they use force, they don't stop.
They have a host of phony charges to throw against someone to put the arrestee on the legal defensive: disturbing the peace, resisting arrest, assault on an officer. "Resisting" can be trying to keep your arm from being broken when an officer tries to twist it violently to put on cuffs. "Assault" is any movement other than lying face down in the dirt and waiting to be handcuffed.
Through police tactics, through their training to be "professional", through the pride that commanders take in getting their officers "home safely", through, yes, racial assumptions and prejudice, we have lost our sense of being respectful citizens of the same nation. Everyone is a potential "perp".
Stopping as many people as possible is not positive police work, it is constant harassment that turns into economic and social repression.
16
Well I cannot speak for NC, but here in GA, particularly in Pooler and Guyton and Bloomingdales, white people are stopped just as much as are black people. And ticketed. If the guy in your first incident had an expired tag and no flag on lumber hanging out of the vehicle, then the stop was justified.
Cops are damned if they do tase or shoot, and dead if they don't tase or shoot. I know cops who have been shot and I know cops who have been killed because they did not shoot first. Our culture of guns and violence has caused the death of many cops and of many civilians that cops shot because the cops are afraid of being killed.
So when you are pulled over, you should put your hands on the wheel and obey the commands of the cop. You can write that letter later if you think the cop was unfair. Don't argue with a cop and don't resist a cop. As a white woman, I've been stopped many times for speeding and I tell cops not to trust white women who may kill them.
Cops are damned if they do tase or shoot, and dead if they don't tase or shoot. I know cops who have been shot and I know cops who have been killed because they did not shoot first. Our culture of guns and violence has caused the death of many cops and of many civilians that cops shot because the cops are afraid of being killed.
So when you are pulled over, you should put your hands on the wheel and obey the commands of the cop. You can write that letter later if you think the cop was unfair. Don't argue with a cop and don't resist a cop. As a white woman, I've been stopped many times for speeding and I tell cops not to trust white women who may kill them.
4
You write: "Cops are damned if they do tase or shoot, and dead if they don't tase or shoot."
Sorry, but this is utter nonsense. There are numerous websites that keep track of how many police officers have been killed in the line of duty across the country, and the cause of death in each case. Nationwide in 2015, there have been 68 line of duty deaths among police officers. Of those, just 31 occurred at the hands of suspects: two (2) from assaults, two (2) from vehicular assaults, and 27 from gunfire. 31 out of approximately 900,000 police officers currently serving in the U.S. As a percentage of officers serving, that is 0.0034% -- that is, a little over three-thousandths of one percent. It constitutes a risk of death at the hands of a suspect somewhat higher, to be sure, than, say, the risk of dying on the job faced by a typical office worker, but there are many, many jobs in this country where workers daily face a far higher risk of injury or death (construction adn farming to name just two). I am not trying to minimize the real risks officers face, but police and their defenders constantly overstate those risks in an effort to shield themselves from perfectly valid and warranted criticism, and it's high time they were called out on it.
Sorry, but this is utter nonsense. There are numerous websites that keep track of how many police officers have been killed in the line of duty across the country, and the cause of death in each case. Nationwide in 2015, there have been 68 line of duty deaths among police officers. Of those, just 31 occurred at the hands of suspects: two (2) from assaults, two (2) from vehicular assaults, and 27 from gunfire. 31 out of approximately 900,000 police officers currently serving in the U.S. As a percentage of officers serving, that is 0.0034% -- that is, a little over three-thousandths of one percent. It constitutes a risk of death at the hands of a suspect somewhat higher, to be sure, than, say, the risk of dying on the job faced by a typical office worker, but there are many, many jobs in this country where workers daily face a far higher risk of injury or death (construction adn farming to name just two). I am not trying to minimize the real risks officers face, but police and their defenders constantly overstate those risks in an effort to shield themselves from perfectly valid and warranted criticism, and it's high time they were called out on it.
7
"As a white woman, I've been stopped many times for speeding and I tell cops not to trust white women who may kill them."
I say "malarkey," partly cloudy, because that threat would get you arrested at the least and, more likely, shot in the extreme; that you lived to share the experience with us suspends belief, so malarkey.
I say "malarkey," partly cloudy, because that threat would get you arrested at the least and, more likely, shot in the extreme; that you lived to share the experience with us suspends belief, so malarkey.
3
You write: "Well I cannot speak for NC, but here in GA, particularly in Pooler and Guyton and Bloomingdales, white people are stopped just as much as are black people. And ticketed."
And you know this . . . how, exactly? Do you have access to any data that can be independently verified? Didn't think so.
And you know this . . . how, exactly? Do you have access to any data that can be independently verified? Didn't think so.
5
Policemen belong in general to the most conservative and reactionary portion of society, who being practically always part of the lower middle class feel that they
acquire a measure of power over other members of society by being cops.
They feel they are perfect and everybody else is out to break all the rules there are.
Also they have a tendency to pick on the people who are more unprotected
while they have an immense respect for the rich and powerful, they don't mess with them.
A
acquire a measure of power over other members of society by being cops.
They feel they are perfect and everybody else is out to break all the rules there are.
Also they have a tendency to pick on the people who are more unprotected
while they have an immense respect for the rich and powerful, they don't mess with them.
A
11
What might have been true of the economic status of the African American population thirty or forty years ago is not the case anymore. There has been a growing middle-class and upper middle class AA population, who contribute in many different ways, to the society inhabited by multicultural population (irrespective of the mix ratio). The bullying police officer who pulls over an AA driver and harasses has to remember, that one day a member of his family might be treated by an AA surgeon at a local hospital for an emergency and be restored to health.
I strongly believe, radical revision of Police training methods are needed as far as community relationships are concerned.
It is disgraceful and shameful for the citizens of United States of America to warrant protection from the people who are employed as protectors of the people.
I strongly believe, radical revision of Police training methods are needed as far as community relationships are concerned.
It is disgraceful and shameful for the citizens of United States of America to warrant protection from the people who are employed as protectors of the people.
8
The nytimes has done excellent work reporting the relations between the police and the citizens they are sworn to protect. Yet rarely if ever is the criterion for good policing described in terms of a statistical tally of how many calls for help were answered in a timely way resulting in actual help and protection of anyone. Rather, there is a stated or implied criterion for an officer doing his job based on the number of arrests, and to achieve this tally arrests for minor infractions or even for no reason will do. This leads to the arrest of anyone least likely to fight the arrest in court and show it up as the make-work or extortion of the public that it may well be. A review of the Compustat-style standards used to assess police work is needed and is overdue.
4
Some of this is just being poor. I never get pulled over for nothing in my new car but in my rusty construction work car and truck I get pulled over all the time.
8
Interesting use of stats.
One forgotten stats though is, statistically speaking, what are the chances of an individual committing a crime, just based on race.
Is it racism, or is it intuition/experience that makes a cop stops blacks little more often than whites. And what would be the effect if cops stop doing that.
I guess we have some data from last couple of years, when police stopped approaching potential criminals based on their skin color.
And why is that in a crime involving multiple races (one being balck), 90% of the time, the perpetrator is black.
One forgotten stats though is, statistically speaking, what are the chances of an individual committing a crime, just based on race.
Is it racism, or is it intuition/experience that makes a cop stops blacks little more often than whites. And what would be the effect if cops stop doing that.
I guess we have some data from last couple of years, when police stopped approaching potential criminals based on their skin color.
And why is that in a crime involving multiple races (one being balck), 90% of the time, the perpetrator is black.
4
You are the one who is abusing statistics. Even if 100% of crimes were committed by members of a particular race, that wouldn't mean, on an individual, case-by-case basis (which is supposed to be the basis of determining whether or not one is stopped by police) that any particular individual of that race is statistically more likely than a member of any other race to commit a crime. You need to take a refresher course in statistics.
1
statistically speaking, can you refer us to an official source for that last paragraph?
One way I can imagine how scared a black male would be to encounter police, is to evoke how scared I am to encounter black males, in certain situations. Both reactions are the result of years of experience, even though they may not apply in an individual case. It's really difficult to assign blame. Which party is at "fault"? I think we all need to be mindful of the "social compact"; to live in a functioning society, we all need to treat each other with respect. It doesn't flow just one direction. It isn't dependent on authority or skin color. The generalized disrespect that is rampant and accepted in our popular culture has tentacles that reach us all. It's hard to feel optimistic; I think there are simply too many of us, clustered together, without a dominant values culture to keep things civil.
4
From policing, to courts, to prison, the criminal justice system in America is horribly broken. The heaviest consequence of this disfunction falls on poor African Americans.
8
I find it curious that so much of your reportage in this piece focuses on North Carolina when the graphs clearly show Connecticut and Illinois cops show even more racial bias in their stops/searches. I know you say the records are more complete in NC, so that warrants the southern focus? Because it makes your work easier? Please. The South certainly has problems (I was raised there) but the tendency of the Times and other mainstream media to focus its racial reporting on the South is a bit timeworn and tedious. Take a look at your own city first, and your own state and region, then the country as a whole.
5
If those sworn to protect and serve have nothing to hide, why object to the use of surveillance cameras either department issued or borne by civilians? Any officer who expresses fear or apathy on the job is not fit to wear the badge.
As far as Mr. Coby's conflicted statements at the University of Chicago in which he went on to concede that there is no process in place to collect data on excessive force/police on civilian shootings, President Obama the day before had defended the Black Lives Matter movement. The next day his FBI Director in addressing the assembly at Mr. Obama's former employer appeared to directly undermine the president. Stay tuned.
As far as Mr. Coby's conflicted statements at the University of Chicago in which he went on to concede that there is no process in place to collect data on excessive force/police on civilian shootings, President Obama the day before had defended the Black Lives Matter movement. The next day his FBI Director in addressing the assembly at Mr. Obama's former employer appeared to directly undermine the president. Stay tuned.
4
The data presented in this article needs scrubbing. Specifically, the article cites legitimate infractions as the cause of a police stop, e.g. expired plates, but never details whether such bona fide infractions are more or less common for black drivers. In short, there is no samling of the white driver poulation to verify the insinuation that it is racial profiling at work.
Maybe, just maybe, young black men are more lawless and it extends to their driving.
Maybe, just maybe, young black men are more lawless and it extends to their driving.
6
The reporter could not write a dissertation. A follow up article on that point might be helpful, but the lack of analysis around this point does not make all other points invalid. Further, I would say that since many police officers often fabricate stories (assault, drugs, registration issues or impeding traffic on a deserted street) what is written on the reports in terms of "cause" may not be reliable to draw conclusions. The fact that many blacks have their charges dismissed over these stops certainly lends one to believe that certain officers may have reputations for aggressivemess and their superiors and judges know this.
Even if you did not believe anyone quoted in this article, the mistrust created by traffic stops along with subsequent court visits and associated expenses, does not help a community come together when charges are bein dropped.
Even if you did not believe anyone quoted in this article, the mistrust created by traffic stops along with subsequent court visits and associated expenses, does not help a community come together when charges are bein dropped.
Maybe in NYC it is a minor offense to be driving with an unregistered car and also with a load that extends out the back in a way the government has determined to be dangerous, but where I live these offenses are not "minor," as word that should not appear outside of the Editorial Page.
No doubt, there is a lot of illegal driving in Greensboro, N.C. and that all law breakers should be stopped. People of both sexes and all races and countries of origin, driving cars from in and out of state license plates, driving non-compliant rattle trap cars, swerving as if distracted or drunk, or driving thru stop signs and red lights are targeted is wrong or changing lanes are turning without signaling, or speeding more than the apparently legal 9 mph grace amount, should be stopped and ticketed. That race is a factor in the south is nothing new. Black males commit far more crime than any other breakdown of the population and only the blind don't know it. Yes, whites are caught with more drugs and guns, but whites are also 3 X the population and apparently in NC, only whites that are operating far beyond the law are ever stopped, so of course with eggregious driving and 3 X the population are going to be found with more drugs and guns. This article is appropriate, but the point should be that white drivers are getting away with murder, not that black drivers are getting caught for committing crimes.
No doubt, there is a lot of illegal driving in Greensboro, N.C. and that all law breakers should be stopped. People of both sexes and all races and countries of origin, driving cars from in and out of state license plates, driving non-compliant rattle trap cars, swerving as if distracted or drunk, or driving thru stop signs and red lights are targeted is wrong or changing lanes are turning without signaling, or speeding more than the apparently legal 9 mph grace amount, should be stopped and ticketed. That race is a factor in the south is nothing new. Black males commit far more crime than any other breakdown of the population and only the blind don't know it. Yes, whites are caught with more drugs and guns, but whites are also 3 X the population and apparently in NC, only whites that are operating far beyond the law are ever stopped, so of course with eggregious driving and 3 X the population are going to be found with more drugs and guns. This article is appropriate, but the point should be that white drivers are getting away with murder, not that black drivers are getting caught for committing crimes.
9
I'm from NY and driving with an expired license plate is NOT minor. Nor is driving around with a "load of scrap metal" sticking out the back of the truck, ready to break someone's windshield if they get a little too close because there was no flag on it.
Have you ever been to Greensboro or for that matter anywhere in the south? I doubt it. When it comes to murder, who does the majority of it? In the south or the north?
Males in general, regardless of their race are in significant, universally applied rates profiled by police (and society in general).
When people, especially women, police and law enforcement approach any scene, especially a scene of possible or actual security concern, they all look at men present at the scene almost every time.
Men, of any arce and age, socioeconomic background are by far (say in at least 9 out of 10 cases where people meet, interact, or where something concerning safety, security or actual crime is concerned are first and often the only people at whom the public and police, etc. are focused on.
Men, again of any race or age or socioeconomic status are every day, in million situations (including being passed by by women at evening hours on a sidewalk or at a mall's parking lot) being singled out, profiled, subjected to disriminating thoughts and actions (police hiting on the first or women crossing sa street on a sidewalks on opposite end, more firmly holding on theiir purse, pepper sray can, etc.)
Why is this massive profiling of men, being a priori be seen as safety risk, being likely danger, likely offender?
Like in any other case of profiling, we, man or any race, age, socioeconomic status are men- something women, the public, police, etc. immediately see when they encounter us.
Statistics for decades consistently show that we - men - are 9 or 10-times more likely to commit violent acts. Thus we are subject or such "discriminatory" profiling.
When people, especially women, police and law enforcement approach any scene, especially a scene of possible or actual security concern, they all look at men present at the scene almost every time.
Men, of any arce and age, socioeconomic background are by far (say in at least 9 out of 10 cases where people meet, interact, or where something concerning safety, security or actual crime is concerned are first and often the only people at whom the public and police, etc. are focused on.
Men, again of any race or age or socioeconomic status are every day, in million situations (including being passed by by women at evening hours on a sidewalk or at a mall's parking lot) being singled out, profiled, subjected to disriminating thoughts and actions (police hiting on the first or women crossing sa street on a sidewalks on opposite end, more firmly holding on theiir purse, pepper sray can, etc.)
Why is this massive profiling of men, being a priori be seen as safety risk, being likely danger, likely offender?
Like in any other case of profiling, we, man or any race, age, socioeconomic status are men- something women, the public, police, etc. immediately see when they encounter us.
Statistics for decades consistently show that we - men - are 9 or 10-times more likely to commit violent acts. Thus we are subject or such "discriminatory" profiling.
'The officer found a small amount of marijuana and several grams of cocaine and arrested her.'
Ok, keep in mind God helps those who help themselves.
1) Don't drive with expired registration, or drive a vehicle that is obviously not roadworthy.
2) Don't drive around with contraband.
3) Learn to drive safely.
4) Keep calm and behave if you are stopped. In nearly any encounter with the police, they have all the cards.
In other words, don't be your own worst enemy. Yes, it's unfair; but you are always accountable for your own behavior and can act in ways that minimize your own risk of a negative encounter with law enforcement. Work to change the system, and in the meantime don't act aginst your own best interests.
Ok, keep in mind God helps those who help themselves.
1) Don't drive with expired registration, or drive a vehicle that is obviously not roadworthy.
2) Don't drive around with contraband.
3) Learn to drive safely.
4) Keep calm and behave if you are stopped. In nearly any encounter with the police, they have all the cards.
In other words, don't be your own worst enemy. Yes, it's unfair; but you are always accountable for your own behavior and can act in ways that minimize your own risk of a negative encounter with law enforcement. Work to change the system, and in the meantime don't act aginst your own best interests.
3
@Yang Congtou Beijing
It is always very easy for one to sit far away from a situation and give sage advice.
Perhaps you should walk a mile in another man's (or woman's) shoes before offering up a solution. It would sound less disingenuous.
It is always very easy for one to sit far away from a situation and give sage advice.
Perhaps you should walk a mile in another man's (or woman's) shoes before offering up a solution. It would sound less disingenuous.
White boy here. I too get an a flash of anxiety when I cross paths with cops. In the small town where I now live the "rumors" of corruption within the police force are rampant. I have personally experienced improprieties.
Yes, it is much worse for black men, but we have reached the point where all society, regardless of race, gender or ethnicity, are subject to heavy hand of police authority.
Leaders in the police community need to take a long hard look at themselves and the forces they oversee. Either implement sweeping changes in hiring practices, training and, above all, attitude, or completely lose the faith and trust of the people they serve.
Yes, it is much worse for black men, but we have reached the point where all society, regardless of race, gender or ethnicity, are subject to heavy hand of police authority.
Leaders in the police community need to take a long hard look at themselves and the forces they oversee. Either implement sweeping changes in hiring practices, training and, above all, attitude, or completely lose the faith and trust of the people they serve.
4
Driving with an expired license and having trash falling out of your vehicle is a pretty good reason to get stopped. But I'm kind of surprised with all the stops and attention paid to black people by the police they still commit more crime and murders than any other group there it is eight times that of white people. It seems the police must be stopping all the wrong people.
2
I have noticed some black drivers are horrible and ignore traffic laws when they need to, or want to. But my main issue is why aren't there "stings" set up to catch bad officers? And why don't black men and women of means, take the time out from their schedule to pursue justice when these "driving while black" incidents occur, why don't people of means demand satisfaction? Demand to see who is in charge? Demand a sergeant or a lieutenant be called? Why don't people of means step up and make a difference?
I would venture to guess that many folk do not know that they can request a seargent or lietenant.
Well, they should raise hell until someone shows up. My point is that people with means need to step up. I hear black people of all levels of society say they have been stopped, really, I know well off white people that would throw a fit. Why don't well off black people take the point on this, why leave it to some brother without two nickels to rub together to protest, stuff changes faster from the top down.
Very few will say so out loud but 62% of Americans are thinking, "Sure glad I'm white." These same people are probably asking why this article appears in a newspaper at all. It's got nothing to do with them.
2
The biggest part of this problem is that cops know they can get away with this. There are no consequences whatsoever.
Charges dropped? So what! All the complainants were innocent! A two-day suspension? Outrageous.
Termination, financial penalties, restitution to victims, and JAIL TIME have to be part of the solution to police officers illegally stopping and abusing motorists. Until police departments have "zero tolerance" for officers abusing their power and authority, this racism abide.
P.S. I'm also tired of reading "there are lots of good officers out there". Really? Prove it!
Signed,
a white man who's never had to suffer these indignities and injustices.
Charges dropped? So what! All the complainants were innocent! A two-day suspension? Outrageous.
Termination, financial penalties, restitution to victims, and JAIL TIME have to be part of the solution to police officers illegally stopping and abusing motorists. Until police departments have "zero tolerance" for officers abusing their power and authority, this racism abide.
P.S. I'm also tired of reading "there are lots of good officers out there". Really? Prove it!
Signed,
a white man who's never had to suffer these indignities and injustices.
6
A real conundrum. Should police less aggressively patrol in high crime areas and shift some concentration to areas that are, essentially, crime free so that they seem more evenhanded? Where they are patrolling, isn't that where the most traffic stops occur; or is it because people in low crime areas are simply better drivers? Hard to wrap my mind around this one.
It's only a conundrum if one assumes the good faith of the police --which to some degree this as article does.
Conversely, if one assumes a large proportion of police are in fact acting on racial biases, tend to be beligerent and escalate confrontation and violence, the problem is clear and solution is easily identifiable.
Conversely, if one assumes a large proportion of police are in fact acting on racial biases, tend to be beligerent and escalate confrontation and violence, the problem is clear and solution is easily identifiable.
So what is the solution that progressives want? Ignore traffic infractions by Blacks to ensure the numbers by race are proportionate, or at the end of the day insist that each cop check the number of stops made and if he has too many stops of Blacks, before he ends his or her shift he has to stop Whites until the numbers balance?
5
A lot of this could be resolved if police departments put Fourth Amendment like rules in place. In other words, no stopping of any vehicle without a definite and obvious cause such as safety failures, registrations, inspection, traffic violations, etc. Looking suspicious or driving while black is not a good enough reason. Of course, there's always the blue wall of silence to contend with in dealing with trumped up charges to justify a stop.
1
The below "minor infractions" will get anyone pulled over so that should not be a problem for anyone or looked at as profiling. What happened after that sounds pretty crazy.
"pulled over for minor infractions that included expired plates and failing to hang a flag from a load of scrap metal in the pickup’s bed"
Overall we don't have good data on what the police are doing right/wrong for a number of reasons including we don't know where they are deployed. If the majority of their time is spent in crime ridden areas and those areas are predominantly minority in nature then you will have data loaded with minority interactions. If the black community is hostile to the police for real or perceived reasons then a certain percentage of those interactions will be ugly. This also seems to occur with black officers as well so it's a general distrust/hostility to police in general.
The point is that anecdotes extrapolated to a general rule is not a logical process. We need more information.
"pulled over for minor infractions that included expired plates and failing to hang a flag from a load of scrap metal in the pickup’s bed"
Overall we don't have good data on what the police are doing right/wrong for a number of reasons including we don't know where they are deployed. If the majority of their time is spent in crime ridden areas and those areas are predominantly minority in nature then you will have data loaded with minority interactions. If the black community is hostile to the police for real or perceived reasons then a certain percentage of those interactions will be ugly. This also seems to occur with black officers as well so it's a general distrust/hostility to police in general.
The point is that anecdotes extrapolated to a general rule is not a logical process. We need more information.
1
I won't mince words. This is junk journalism. Clearly, Its intent is to continue the ongoing divisive situation we have here in the US that the Holders, Obamas, Sharptons and Blows wish to perpetuate for political advantage. Keep those Black votes coming.
Now, I may be a bigoted member of the KKK, and some of you will probably prefer that be the case. However, I have a doctoral degree from a major U with a heavy background in statistics and I've made a good living plying that skill. So let me paraphrase Lloyd Bensten, I know data analysis, and the writers aren't qualified data analysts.
As for readers.... if this were instead a study showing Blacks have a higher rate of criminality or on average do less well in school (both true), you'd demand the journalists take into account variables like socioeconomic class, education $ per student, the availability of this or that and claim the results were bogus. But when results fit your progressive agenda, you praise the authors. Seriously?
Here's the rule for almost all research into human behavior: Because of multi-collinearity (predictor variables are often correlated with each other), studies that only examine one predictor (in this case race) are usually misleading because other variables may account for the observed main effect (in this case race and traffic stops).
I realize of course the Times has an agenda, but the writers and editors should be ashamed. This piece is meaningless drivel.
Now, I may be a bigoted member of the KKK, and some of you will probably prefer that be the case. However, I have a doctoral degree from a major U with a heavy background in statistics and I've made a good living plying that skill. So let me paraphrase Lloyd Bensten, I know data analysis, and the writers aren't qualified data analysts.
As for readers.... if this were instead a study showing Blacks have a higher rate of criminality or on average do less well in school (both true), you'd demand the journalists take into account variables like socioeconomic class, education $ per student, the availability of this or that and claim the results were bogus. But when results fit your progressive agenda, you praise the authors. Seriously?
Here's the rule for almost all research into human behavior: Because of multi-collinearity (predictor variables are often correlated with each other), studies that only examine one predictor (in this case race) are usually misleading because other variables may account for the observed main effect (in this case race and traffic stops).
I realize of course the Times has an agenda, but the writers and editors should be ashamed. This piece is meaningless drivel.
11
you have an agenda as well.
2
Yet, you quote a social progressive. Ralphie, you're no Lloyd Bentsen.
"Keep those Black votes coming.": We're doing our best to comply with your wishes, Ralphie, surely you would not deny any American her constitutional right to vote, or has your copy of the Constitution not be updated to include Amendments XIII and XIV?
President Obama divisive?! Oh, that's right, he is bi-racial.
Eight upvotes for this anti-American, admittedly Klan-affiliated bluster. Incredible.
"Keep those Black votes coming.": We're doing our best to comply with your wishes, Ralphie, surely you would not deny any American her constitutional right to vote, or has your copy of the Constitution not be updated to include Amendments XIII and XIV?
President Obama divisive?! Oh, that's right, he is bi-racial.
Eight upvotes for this anti-American, admittedly Klan-affiliated bluster. Incredible.
2
Gus -- I suppose you don't understand math. And as expected, the best you can come up with when someone conflicts with your biased view of the world is to scream --- you're a racist. Why not try and contradict my arguments. And the number of votes is a reflection of the progressive audience, most of whom probably majored (f they went to college) in soft majors that require no math. If you know anyone who understands statistics, they will confirm what I'm saying.
And by the way, I'm no racist. It may have been too subtle for you, but the KKK reference was sarcasm.
slightlycrazy -- the only agenda I have is objecting when the Times presents slanted, partisan reports under the guise of supposedly objective investigative journalism. Hokum.
And by the way, I'm no racist. It may have been too subtle for you, but the KKK reference was sarcasm.
slightlycrazy -- the only agenda I have is objecting when the Times presents slanted, partisan reports under the guise of supposedly objective investigative journalism. Hokum.
PART III: LIMITATIONS OF A SINGLE DATA TABLE
Hence, rather than undermining the well-documented problem, it confirms it. Keep in mind there have been scores of investigations documenting excessive and unwarranted police harassment of blacks and violence against blacks. We also know the history of racism and police treatment of minorities. A single data table, no matter how you wish to construe it, does not undermine that reality.
Keep in mind as well that it is the police who gather and report such data; that they get to define what the problems are (delaying officers, walking on the street, etc.), and, often, even the race of the people involved. Keep in mind that there are thousands of stops that do not get reported.
THE REALITIES ARE THERE IF YOU ONLY OPEN YOUR EYES
Deniers really should re-read the story and think about the differences in Greensboro-Fayetteville approaches to policing. They should also read through the comments on this story, including people's incredibly disturbing experiences at the hands of the police and observations by enlightened law enforcement officers who take the problem seriously.
Hence, rather than undermining the well-documented problem, it confirms it. Keep in mind there have been scores of investigations documenting excessive and unwarranted police harassment of blacks and violence against blacks. We also know the history of racism and police treatment of minorities. A single data table, no matter how you wish to construe it, does not undermine that reality.
Keep in mind as well that it is the police who gather and report such data; that they get to define what the problems are (delaying officers, walking on the street, etc.), and, often, even the race of the people involved. Keep in mind that there are thousands of stops that do not get reported.
THE REALITIES ARE THERE IF YOU ONLY OPEN YOUR EYES
Deniers really should re-read the story and think about the differences in Greensboro-Fayetteville approaches to policing. They should also read through the comments on this story, including people's incredibly disturbing experiences at the hands of the police and observations by enlightened law enforcement officers who take the problem seriously.
2
PART 1
Looking at the data is important-- yet, contrary to several commenters' assertions, the Times reporter provided key pieces of data showing racial disparities.
WHAT THE DATA TABLE ACTUALLY SHOWED
Nice try to sweep things under the rug. These commenters cited the original study and provide a link--they argue it *refutes* the existence of any racial disparity. However, contrary to such assertions, the data in that table actually *shows* an enormous racial discrepancy.
The data table shows that blacks are *twice * as likely to be searched after a stop! They conveniently ignored the right-hand column of the table that reports the black/white ratios of police stops--and, in most categories, they are about 2-3 times that of whites!
Looking at the data is important-- yet, contrary to several commenters' assertions, the Times reporter provided key pieces of data showing racial disparities.
WHAT THE DATA TABLE ACTUALLY SHOWED
Nice try to sweep things under the rug. These commenters cited the original study and provide a link--they argue it *refutes* the existence of any racial disparity. However, contrary to such assertions, the data in that table actually *shows* an enormous racial discrepancy.
The data table shows that blacks are *twice * as likely to be searched after a stop! They conveniently ignored the right-hand column of the table that reports the black/white ratios of police stops--and, in most categories, they are about 2-3 times that of whites!
2
Reading the comments on this story is quite interesting. It appears you can run the stats to reach any conclusion that suits you. And Times readers have done a good job on both sides of the argument.
In the end I come to the conclusion that racism exists around the world and that as Americans we tend to be a bit too hard on ourselves. Racism is a human reaction to people not like us and will never go away.
It is what it is I'm afraid.
In the end I come to the conclusion that racism exists around the world and that as Americans we tend to be a bit too hard on ourselves. Racism is a human reaction to people not like us and will never go away.
It is what it is I'm afraid.
3
That is rather flippant. I have spent fifteen years of my life overseas, and I have seen nothing like the racism I see in this country. It is simply unacceptable.
4
No, it's not. Yes, we all have our biases, but we are also capable of identifying them and working to prevent them from influencing our behavior towards others, if we want to, that is.
2
That's my point. The civil rights act was passed in 1963. I see no change. What can we do that we haven't already done? You can't say we haven't tried.
'Pulling over drivers, they said, is a standard and effective form of proactive policing.'
Sitting in your cruiser waiting for some unlucky fool to bumble along is hardly the definition of proactive policing. If this were a nature show the police would be described as an ambush predator.
'He said he had told his officers to focus on drivers who speed, drive drunk or ignore traffic lights and stop signs — the violations that cost lives. '
This is so obvious. How does it rate a direct quote? How is it that all policing is not risk based?
A major problem is the way local governments use their police force as a profit center. Dangerous criminals are hard to catch and require a lot of time and effort to put them away. Serious criminals cost money, while your average guy with a broken taillight or expired registration is a net profit. Where I used to live in Texas, there was the so-called gardeners' employment tax. Just drive into town with with a few lawn movers in the back of your not so new pickup and the police stopped you. Easy money.
Give the police the right objectives, proper training, transparency, and community oversight. Harassing people for trivial fix-it infractions alienates the community and only encourages gaming the statistics by selecting easy targets.
Sitting in your cruiser waiting for some unlucky fool to bumble along is hardly the definition of proactive policing. If this were a nature show the police would be described as an ambush predator.
'He said he had told his officers to focus on drivers who speed, drive drunk or ignore traffic lights and stop signs — the violations that cost lives. '
This is so obvious. How does it rate a direct quote? How is it that all policing is not risk based?
A major problem is the way local governments use their police force as a profit center. Dangerous criminals are hard to catch and require a lot of time and effort to put them away. Serious criminals cost money, while your average guy with a broken taillight or expired registration is a net profit. Where I used to live in Texas, there was the so-called gardeners' employment tax. Just drive into town with with a few lawn movers in the back of your not so new pickup and the police stopped you. Easy money.
Give the police the right objectives, proper training, transparency, and community oversight. Harassing people for trivial fix-it infractions alienates the community and only encourages gaming the statistics by selecting easy targets.
8
Could this be because blacks, particularly black men commit a disproportionately higher level of crime? Black men, 8% of the population, responsible for 45% of its homicides. These answers aren't hard to find, unless the answer upsets you.
14
Gordon, that is an inconvenient truth that does not fit with the left’s agenda.
8
Having a tenuous relationship with the law is an invitation to police, Like a door opened for them, they walk right through.
You need to site your source. Fox News doesn't count.
2
Greensboro is 48 percent white and 41 percent black. Over a 10-year-period, 46 percent of Greensboro motorists stopped were white while 49.78 were black. 3.6 percent of white motorists pulled over were searched while 6.58 percent of black motorists were search. As the article points out, the racial disparity in traffic stops can be easily explained by demographic factors. The traffic stop disparity is less than the racial disparity in median age. According to the Census Bureau, the median age for whites is 42 while the median age for blacks is 32. Younger drivers get more traffic tickets than middle age drivers. The data shows black motorists were almost twice as likely as white motorists to be stopped for vehicle equipment and vehicle regulatory violations. These two type of violations, which accounted for 149,852 of the 488,754 traffic stops, are a function of income, not race. Blacks motorists are more likely to have out-of-date inspection stickers, expired license plates, and broken taillights because they are more likely to be poor. The racial disparity in searches (3.16% white to 6.58% black ) was almost entirely due to the fact that black motorists were more than twice as likely (3.77% to 1.87% percent) to consent to searches and because black motorists were twice as likely (1.50% to 0.79%) to be arrested, usually for outstanding warrants.
12
Thank you. As always, you have shed light on the statistics that get buried in the overly broad "disproportional."
Have you thought that maybe black motorists fear the consequences of not consenting to a search? Yes, income does play a part in whether one is able to maintain one's vehicle up-to-date and in good repair. I have struggled to get back to financial stability after a long period of unemployment after losing my job. I was stopped recently. I had expired registration and inspection stickers and I had no auto insurance. I thought I was done for and my car would definitely be towed. I received no tickets or written warnings and I was allowed to go on my way. I am a very white Latina. What are the chances of the same outcome for a black man? Time and time again, I have been stopped for one violation or another. Rarely am I given a ticket, even when stopped for speeding. Time and time again, I have witnessed very different treatment of my darker-skinned Latino and Black friends, usually for nothing at all. I don't need statistics to tell me what I have seen with my own eyes for decades in several states.
26
Yet the PC crowd ad their masters will not allow such relevant statistics, facts and explanations to prevail and limit selective, twisted narrative.
I also am a white female, of middle age. I have had many encounters with police officers over the years, and rarely are they positive. A few years ago I was stopped for "cutting off" a police officer who was enraged when he came to my car, even though I had used my turn signal and merged legally in front of him. He ordered me out of the car, breath tested me (I passed) and forced my husband, crippled by back pain, to get in the driver's seat, while calling for backup, even though I was calm and cooperative throughout. The backup officer glared at my 16-year old sun in the back seat during this entire encounter. I was let go with "well, I guess I won't arrest you tonight". Over the years, my perception of police has gone from helpful public servants to dangerous, power-crazed bullies. My family now scrupulously inspects our cars for missing lights or expired stickers, knowing that these can be the "ticket" to a whole lot of pain. My son, who is now 21, gets harassed regularly for being a young male driver. He knows to avoid the places where police regularly patrol, and takes back roads if he must be out late at night. I cannot even imagine how much worse it must be for African American drivers. The entire culture is corrupt, and must be changed, starting with training in treating the public with basic politeness and decency.
9
It's interesting you're in PA. I've lived all over the country and have had the worst experiences with the Pittsburgh city police and the Philadelphia city police. In my experience state troopers are far more professional and better trained than city cops- especially in the northeast. From what I've seen over the years, city cops often do not give citizens respect, so citizens do not give them respect. State troopers give citizens respect, and they likely get more respect from citizens as a result. Once driving through Nashville on a highway there was a Nashville city cop driving an unmarked car very slowly (well under the speed limit) and pulling in front of drivers in the left lane- causing a dangerous collision hazard and forcing drivers to hit their brakes quickly. He did it to me and then I saw him do it to another driver. He pulled me over and, with his hands shaking, he lectured me angrily on the dangers of tailgating. After many 'yes sir', 'no sir' responses from me, he eventually let me go as if he were doing me a favor. I called the Nashville dispatch and described this scary encounter. Clearly that guy shouldn't have been given a badge and a gun. I would encourage city police departments to model their recruiting and training on state trooper programs.
I'm a white male, 50, two daughters. We live in a 95% white suburb between two depressed urban centers in the northeast. The main street in our town is a state road that directly connects these two blighted cities, which are about 22 miles apart. The local police and resident state trooper make lots of stops along that road. For the past ten years, whenever we see a car pulled over, my daughters and I have played a guessing game: Black or brown? It has always been one or the other. Always.
3
Why?
Becuse the probability on the ground that a) their car has non-functioning blinkers, tags, etc. etc. or that they exhibit other trafic violation (red light, stop sign, engangering ride, etc.) is way above average. The fact that trafic violation stops in way above average rates also lead to discovery of other violations of law (outstanding warrants, etc. etc., drugs) also makes very real sense and is a tool of effective utilization of precious taxpayers money and better administration of law.
Why are not say Swedish grandmas "profiled" by airport security personnel and middle aged male of Arab origin might be?
Why police (or women, public in general) think first of men (white or black or Asian) at a normal scene and certainly a crime scene as primarily suspect?
Hint to PC correct crowd crying "discrimination" and "profiling": Over thye decades stastistics consistently show that men (White, Asian, Hispanic, Black) are 9 to 10-times more likely than women to committ a violent act.
So profiling makes perfect sense and is effective and efficient way to administer public safety and use limited taxpayers resources.
Becuse the probability on the ground that a) their car has non-functioning blinkers, tags, etc. etc. or that they exhibit other trafic violation (red light, stop sign, engangering ride, etc.) is way above average. The fact that trafic violation stops in way above average rates also lead to discovery of other violations of law (outstanding warrants, etc. etc., drugs) also makes very real sense and is a tool of effective utilization of precious taxpayers money and better administration of law.
Why are not say Swedish grandmas "profiled" by airport security personnel and middle aged male of Arab origin might be?
Why police (or women, public in general) think first of men (white or black or Asian) at a normal scene and certainly a crime scene as primarily suspect?
Hint to PC correct crowd crying "discrimination" and "profiling": Over thye decades stastistics consistently show that men (White, Asian, Hispanic, Black) are 9 to 10-times more likely than women to committ a violent act.
So profiling makes perfect sense and is effective and efficient way to administer public safety and use limited taxpayers resources.
I am a European-American male. Despite the fact that I am seen by many liberals as the primary cause of America's racial problems, I have had no problems with police in my life - because I obey the law, even if I do not agree with it.
Of course, obeying unpopular laws is a concept foreign to a number of US Presidents and to all the Hispanics and others who are in the USA illegally.
The New York Times, hard Left as it is, will never understand this. My niece, a Border Patrol agent on the Southern border for 14 years, does, soldiering on despite abysmal support from the current occupant of the US White House.
Of course, obeying unpopular laws is a concept foreign to a number of US Presidents and to all the Hispanics and others who are in the USA illegally.
The New York Times, hard Left as it is, will never understand this. My niece, a Border Patrol agent on the Southern border for 14 years, does, soldiering on despite abysmal support from the current occupant of the US White House.
7
The solution is obvious. The police have to stop more White drivers. By stopping more White drivers the statistics will eventually even out and people will be stopped in accordance with their races proportion to the total population. A simple computer program can help keep track of race and stops and with each stop come up with the stats.
We know from FBI statistics that Blacks are arrested for other crimes in a higher proportion than their race is to the total population. The solution there can be the same. Whites have to be encouraged to commit more crimes until the arrest records are proportionate for all races. Or conversely Blacks have to be encouraged to commit fewer crimes until the arrest stats are equal. Take your pick. Arrests are presently made based on crimes committed where the suspect is caught.
We know from FBI statistics that Blacks are arrested for other crimes in a higher proportion than their race is to the total population. The solution there can be the same. Whites have to be encouraged to commit more crimes until the arrest records are proportionate for all races. Or conversely Blacks have to be encouraged to commit fewer crimes until the arrest stats are equal. Take your pick. Arrests are presently made based on crimes committed where the suspect is caught.
12
@NYChap Chappaqua
With all due respect, your "simple" solution is just that. And aside from being simplistic, it is also unrealistic and does not address the cogent sociological factors that both this study, and this article attempt to explore.
With all due respect, your "simple" solution is just that. And aside from being simplistic, it is also unrealistic and does not address the cogent sociological factors that both this study, and this article attempt to explore.
While the vast majority of police officers play a positive role in society, there is a very real "blue" code of silence which undermines our perception of that fact. When I see the police actively removing from their ranks not just criminal police officers, but bad police officers, then I will know they are operating in society's best interest. Until then, I see abuse and cover-ups. It is the organization itself which needs to be reviewed.
Like many bloggers here, I have had experiences which would have resulted in my abuse or death, had I been black. We should not fear our police.
Like many bloggers here, I have had experiences which would have resulted in my abuse or death, had I been black. We should not fear our police.
27
Then advocated to your city council to remove the police from your city. And see what happens next.
This assumes consistent behavior between races. Take a look at the rates of crime, teen pregnancy, high school dropouts - bad decisions. Doesn't evidence of bad decision making not affect driving?
We should have the tech at some point to track this, from police notice to contact. Are cops really looking in the windows of passing cars?
We should have the tech at some point to track this, from police notice to contact. Are cops really looking in the windows of passing cars?
7
@ Greg Buls Whittier, CA
And while you're at it, take a look at the vast socioeconomic differences between the races; which might explain how a lower income-level has a direct result on how one is educated, either at school or at home, and ultimately effects the ability to make better decisions about the things you have mentioned.
And while you're at it, take a look at the vast socioeconomic differences between the races; which might explain how a lower income-level has a direct result on how one is educated, either at school or at home, and ultimately effects the ability to make better decisions about the things you have mentioned.
Aftermarket item to be made available:
Phenomtapeitol for those who Drive While Black. This state-of-the-art audiovisual retrofit provides a complete recording of any and all events in the vicinity of your car should you be stopped in your travels. Just push a button, and the inconspicuous recording will begin.
If you can't have peace of mind while driving, at least have a piece of the action afterwards. High resolution, clear recording of the events as they actually happened forestalls memory redaction after the fact. Get yours today!
Phenomtapeitol for those who Drive While Black. This state-of-the-art audiovisual retrofit provides a complete recording of any and all events in the vicinity of your car should you be stopped in your travels. Just push a button, and the inconspicuous recording will begin.
If you can't have peace of mind while driving, at least have a piece of the action afterwards. High resolution, clear recording of the events as they actually happened forestalls memory redaction after the fact. Get yours today!
The evidence reveals that more blacks are pulled over for traffic violations than whites. But to be a valid study, there should be information on the proportion of blacks drivers who are driving around with potential traffic violations e.g. broken tail lights vs. whites driving around with potential violations. This is like saying that because there are more blacks than whites in jails, that the legal system is biased. In Northern Virginia, the courts are loaded with latino immigrants who have been cited by the police for drinking in public/cars, DWIs, no insurance and other types of violations. Their issue appears to be cultural; in their countries the enforcement of these types of violations is nearly non-existent. In this case, it is a cultural difference, and I suggest it may be a cultural difference between blacks and whites, different attitudes towards car regulations and traffic laws. The Times is doing a disservice towards African Americans when it puts forth a flawed analysis of traffic stop data and is being condescending as well to that community. (i.e. the biggest danger for Blacks is the police)
11
Do you really, really expect that NYT or any mainsteram media or anyone in the Politically Correct Industrial Complex will even consider to adopt at least a bit more objective and fair approaches to the issues, starting with bona fide comparisons?
The only thing we can do is a) Do not read or subscribe media not attemting to be objective and b) Voice effectively our opinion and protest.
The only thing we can do is a) Do not read or subscribe media not attemting to be objective and b) Voice effectively our opinion and protest.
And it not "just" driving while black.
I too experienced a similar situation here in NYC. When walking from subway car to car was deemed illegal, it took a few months to this "ingrained habit" to sink in.
Me, in a crowded car, walked to the next one, behind 3 other white people. ALL of us are in full "business wear"...and who gets pulled off the train by undercover police? The first question was "have you been drinking?" No. But I was on my way to a happy hour get-together in the Village. It took a lot of "tongue-biting" to get through that situation. I didn't get arrested or a ticket, but it was clear that the officers were having a bit of "fun" at my expense.
I had a couple of martinis when I finally got downtown....to kill the adrenaline.
I too experienced a similar situation here in NYC. When walking from subway car to car was deemed illegal, it took a few months to this "ingrained habit" to sink in.
Me, in a crowded car, walked to the next one, behind 3 other white people. ALL of us are in full "business wear"...and who gets pulled off the train by undercover police? The first question was "have you been drinking?" No. But I was on my way to a happy hour get-together in the Village. It took a lot of "tongue-biting" to get through that situation. I didn't get arrested or a ticket, but it was clear that the officers were having a bit of "fun" at my expense.
I had a couple of martinis when I finally got downtown....to kill the adrenaline.
3
Police stops and rate of imprisonment are not distributed by race but by income level. This is an issue of sampling in statistics. Any notion of bias or prejudice is in the eyes of the reader and writer. The police are not the problem. Its the liberal press. In fact the violence rates are increasing because of the lower enforcement given the increased scrutiny of police. Ferguson is an example. Brown reaches into a police car for the officers gun and loses his thumb. The officer radios for help and gets out to confront Brown. He turns around and moves toward the policeman. He is shot dead for a double assault of the police. The media portray it as a racially biased stop. Brown just held up a local grocery store. Many citizens are not only angry with the ruling class politicians who do little in office but they are upset with the media for misrepresenting the truth.
8
I am a white, 65 year-old woman and I am afraid of the police. I have met some nice police and some rude police and some scary police and generally they all exude the power they have to ruin my day or ruin the life of my mixed race son or his friends. It seems that our fear of crime has resulted in us turning over so much power to this small group of people. I'm not sure how we change this unless we're willing to say that preventing and punishing non-violent crime -- drug use, burglary -- can't be more important than the civil rights or giving them a sense of hope and belief they can be successfully part of our society.
2
Black in America all my life, I am approaching 60. I have been stopped or hassled by the police almost everywhere I've called home. In DC, a uniformed officer stopped me right after I had mailed my financial aid application to law school, saying that I fit the description of someone reported in the area "with a bomb." Sitting on that curb, I wondered what would have happened had I not kept my time stamped receipts for having posted my financial aid papers by certified mail. In law school in St. Louis, I was also stopped "on suspicion." My sons, a Wharton grad and a current Wharton student, have had similar experiences. How much does America care, really? If "All Lives Matter" really was true....
67
Hey, I'm white. Ten years ago my white son, on a train home from college, looked up and saw two officers pointing guns in his face. A woman upstate had been car-jacked. He fit the description. They put him in cuffs right there. He was able to show them some recipt or something that showed he couldn't be the guy. The released him.
So I asked my son if he was mad. Or if he wanted to sue the officers.
He said no. I fit the description, he said. They were doing what they had to do.
So I asked my son if he was mad. Or if he wanted to sue the officers.
He said no. I fit the description, he said. They were doing what they had to do.
As a white male of similar age I am being daily "profiled" by almost everyone: by women I pass on a sidewalk or at a mall parking lot, by police, by our daughters' la cross female coach, etc. etc. etc.
As (white) males we are profiled several times a day, for decades.
Women run "stranger danger" video in their minds, tightening their purse bit more, making sure their pepper spray is in there pocket, they speed up their walk, cross the street to opposite sidewalk.
We are guilty to them and police ... until proven innocent. Male on college campuses even do not have due process, their lives being ruined by college administration by being kicked out of college even when they are not guilty.
We, male of any color, suffer these stereotypes, profiling, bigotry, discrimination .... because statistics have been consistently showing that male are 9 to 10-times more likely than women to commit a violent crime.
So, like Blacks, we suffer from objective statistics against us as too many of our fellow men made such awful, yet significant statistics which put all of us, men, in such bad, profiled, stereotypical light.
As (white) males we are profiled several times a day, for decades.
Women run "stranger danger" video in their minds, tightening their purse bit more, making sure their pepper spray is in there pocket, they speed up their walk, cross the street to opposite sidewalk.
We are guilty to them and police ... until proven innocent. Male on college campuses even do not have due process, their lives being ruined by college administration by being kicked out of college even when they are not guilty.
We, male of any color, suffer these stereotypes, profiling, bigotry, discrimination .... because statistics have been consistently showing that male are 9 to 10-times more likely than women to commit a violent crime.
So, like Blacks, we suffer from objective statistics against us as too many of our fellow men made such awful, yet significant statistics which put all of us, men, in such bad, profiled, stereotypical light.
But. You know why this happened don't you? It wasn't about you per se. You got associated with your racial profile. And what does your racial profile look like to the police? Hint: not pretty.
The police chief in Greensboro ought to realize that staying in touch with the people he " serves " is a good idea, but that doing same by traffic stops is rediculous. The cop is tense, the driver on the defensive, etc. Maybe the chief should learn, like many smart chiefs ( the chief in Fayetteville ) that it's far better to have an understanding and rapport with those you serve by getting out into the neighborhoods, meeting people and getting to know them. And also? clean the racist riff faff out of the force. The chief sets the tone and is responsible for the attitude on the force.
Do you really, really, seriously believe that " by getting out into the neighborhoods, meeting people and getting to know them" would ever work and - most importantly - be actually welcomed and accepted by high crime ridden urban areas dwellers?
Would you, for example, love or accept to have a couple of policemen in your house or front yard regularly when yiou know all too well that your son upstairs is dealing with drugs, your cousing next door has an outstanding warrant, and in your bedroom you have a couple of guns someone got without legal permit?
Urban center high crime rate community members do not typically like to work withy police, startying with denial to provide leads on crimes committed in their neighbourhood. No one wants to be a "snitch".
Would you, for example, love or accept to have a couple of policemen in your house or front yard regularly when yiou know all too well that your son upstairs is dealing with drugs, your cousing next door has an outstanding warrant, and in your bedroom you have a couple of guns someone got without legal permit?
Urban center high crime rate community members do not typically like to work withy police, startying with denial to provide leads on crimes committed in their neighbourhood. No one wants to be a "snitch".
My wife and I must live in heaven.
In our moderately small town near a large city one almost never sees police on the street, much less on the street stopping people, to ticket them, or to shoot them (if they're DWB = Driving While Brown) around here).
In fact, we recently visited friends who had relocated to NC, and we also recently had a business trip to the L.A. area. We had a great time on both trips.
But what struck us most about our town and these other two places was the open racism in NC, and the fact that every home in L.A. seemed to have a Mexican working in the home owners' yard. Here in the Southwest we live in a neighborhood which is mostly minority, in a town where minority people own businesses and even sometimes have white people working for them.
In our moderately small town near a large city one almost never sees police on the street, much less on the street stopping people, to ticket them, or to shoot them (if they're DWB = Driving While Brown) around here).
In fact, we recently visited friends who had relocated to NC, and we also recently had a business trip to the L.A. area. We had a great time on both trips.
But what struck us most about our town and these other two places was the open racism in NC, and the fact that every home in L.A. seemed to have a Mexican working in the home owners' yard. Here in the Southwest we live in a neighborhood which is mostly minority, in a town where minority people own businesses and even sometimes have white people working for them.
Everyone is missing the policy and management perspective which is driven by politicians and crime rates. Police departments across the country routinely deploy a greater amount of resources and personnel to black neighborhoods than white neighborhoods. That is standard practice due to higher felony crime rates, and there's no denying it. When you have more officers in one area than another, your going to have a greater increase in enforcement across the board. Those officers will certainly respond to major crimes much quicker and their presence alone will deter crime, but when they are not needed for serious incidents, you bet they are going to focus on minor infractions.
3
That looking for drugs is cited as an excuse for these traffic stops is just another example of how the drug laws are basically used to justify police-state behavior. And it's clear that there are some people who are totally unfit to be police officers; or who become unfit. And they should be entered into a national database, and banned from police work.
4
Whenever my husband and I drive across I-10 from Fl, to Ms. I always look when people are pulled over, because usually I'm bored and nosy. 90% of the time the troopers have stopped young black men, or people driving red or bright looking sporty cars. DWB, driving while black,every single time we travel, over and over and over. I think police must have a 4 year college education and be paid accordingly. I also feel that there must be many more minorities on the various police forces. Day after day we see in our large cities black on black crime. Over and over and over. To deny this is a lie. So now we have police afraid for their lives when they confront black men and black men and woman afraid for their own lives when confronted by the police. This is not going away anytime soon. Police should be out in the communities on a daily basis mingling with the people, especially young children. Until trust can be rebuilt, and people are more educated, we will continue to see this.
2
Seems mostly well done to me. We do have to be careful to not just state stats without showing why they show unjustified behavior. Even when that is done, there is often more nuance involved.
The focus was on racial discrimination only. As others have mentioned, we also have a problem with officers that are ill-suited to the task. It's an ideal job for someone who gets off on abuse. We need to surface these guys and get them gone.
The article mentions in passing that 2 officers were "pushed out". It looks like that should happen a lot more often. Let's raise the bar on who gets to be a police officer and who gets to continue to be a police officer. That, of course, may mean that we need to bump salaries to attract and retain the quality we need.
The focus was on racial discrimination only. As others have mentioned, we also have a problem with officers that are ill-suited to the task. It's an ideal job for someone who gets off on abuse. We need to surface these guys and get them gone.
The article mentions in passing that 2 officers were "pushed out". It looks like that should happen a lot more often. Let's raise the bar on who gets to be a police officer and who gets to continue to be a police officer. That, of course, may mean that we need to bump salaries to attract and retain the quality we need.
1
Every time I buy groceries, get my hair done, go to my bank or order something online somebody sends me a survey in order to gather data about my experience. How hard would it be to include a survey website at the bottom of a traffic ticket and ask the recipient questions about how they were treated? The data could be collected anonymously and monitored for outliers to track how people were treated during their traffic stop. If even small businesses can afford surveys like this I can't imagine it would be too costly for local governments.
3
I'm white, male, and middle class and won't make any comparison to what black men have to face. But recently I too have experienced what can only be described as harassment pull overs by local police in the affluent suburban communities I drive through. One time it was 10:00 pm at night driving my daughter and her friend home from a sports practice. We were held for 10 minutes on the side of the road with a 500 watt searchlight shining in our mirror and finally given a summons for a bad headlight. Another time it was during the morning commute and I was singled out for going too fast through a pending construction zone with no speed reduction yet posted (let go after 5 minutes on that one). I had a student pulled over with her boyfriend and held on the side of the road for 20 minutes because he had a pair of fuzzy dice hanging off the rear view mirror.
I have friends who are in law enforcement and I trust them. One of them has told me, when we've had this discussion, that's what been lost is community policing. Too much bodybuilding, weaponry, and ridiculously expensive patrol cars.
I have friends who are in law enforcement and I trust them. One of them has told me, when we've had this discussion, that's what been lost is community policing. Too much bodybuilding, weaponry, and ridiculously expensive patrol cars.
2
Do you really believe that say inner cities drug and crime infested communities really desire "community policing" when they know that their son upstairs has an unregistered gun and sells some drugs, cousin next door has and outstanding warrant,k etc. etc?
I'm wondering how to resolve the perspective of this article with that of another article that appeared 2 days ago, re the FBI director saying that crime is going up because police fear they are being surveilled by citizens.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/10/23/us/ap-us-fbi-director-chicago...
I suppose it comes down to whether we think it is worse to arrest/punish/convict one innocent person or to let one guilty person go free.
There is a view that one should immediately and unquestioningly comply with anything a police officer tells us to do (even if we are not sure what he is telling us to do); asking him any question is "resisting arrest" or "litigating it on the street." If that is indeed the case, how can we say we are not a police state?
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/10/23/us/ap-us-fbi-director-chicago...
I suppose it comes down to whether we think it is worse to arrest/punish/convict one innocent person or to let one guilty person go free.
There is a view that one should immediately and unquestioningly comply with anything a police officer tells us to do (even if we are not sure what he is telling us to do); asking him any question is "resisting arrest" or "litigating it on the street." If that is indeed the case, how can we say we are not a police state?
28
Best policy for all of us: Do what the officer says, no more, no less, and do it right now! Don't argue and certainly don't physically resist. There will be ample opportunity after he sizes up the situation and everyone can take a few breaths for you to tell your story, and even file a complaint if necessary; but, in the moment, do what he says and be quiet. Many of those killed in the high profile cases should have taken that advice, except for Tamir Rice. I absolutely fail to understand what happened there.
If those who protect and serve have nothing to hide, why object to the use of surveillance cameras either department issued or borne by civilians? Any officer who expresses fear or apathy on the job is not fit to wear the badge.
As far as Mr. Coby's conflicted statements at the University of Chicago in which he went on to concede that there is no process in place to collect data on excessive force/police on civilian shootings, President Obama the day before had defended the Black Lives Matter movement. The next day his FBI Director in addressing the assembly at Mr. Obama's former employer appeared to directly undermine the president. Stay tuned.
As far as Mr. Coby's conflicted statements at the University of Chicago in which he went on to concede that there is no process in place to collect data on excessive force/police on civilian shootings, President Obama the day before had defended the Black Lives Matter movement. The next day his FBI Director in addressing the assembly at Mr. Obama's former employer appeared to directly undermine the president. Stay tuned.
2
Much of the problem with traffic stops stems from the "legal right" of police officers to search the vehicles they stop. There is no logical connection between a routine stop and "probable cause" --the standard usually needed to justify a search--to believe that evidence of a crime will be found within the vehicle. Here in Vermont, officers are prohibited from searching vehicles stopped for routine traffic issues unless they have some specific, additional reason to believe that another offense has been or is being committed. If the Vermont rule were adopted in other states, many of the issues you raise in the article could be avoided.
The collected data shows that Greensboro police searched 0.43 percent of white motorists they stopped and 1.15 percent of black motorists they stopped for probable cause. Over a 10-year-period, they searched 3,844 motorists for probable cause, an average of 384 searches a year. The same rules regarding probable cause apply to all states. North Carolina cops have to have probable cause to believe than an vehicle contains evidence of a crime before searching it.
Who commits the most street crime from drugs to murder and assault,?
Answer: Black men commit 70-80 percent of all street crime consequently this particular group should be of most concern to the public and law enforcement.
When Black men change their habit of committing crime and thereby change their public image, then the public and law enforcement will change their attitudes as well.
Answer: Black men commit 70-80 percent of all street crime consequently this particular group should be of most concern to the public and law enforcement.
When Black men change their habit of committing crime and thereby change their public image, then the public and law enforcement will change their attitudes as well.
8
The proactive civil-rights battles of the 1960's resulted only in changes to the laws that allowed discrimination to flourish, but which effected the attitudes driving that discrimination only to the extent that it lost its 'legal' covering rationalizations.
While bigotry may have lost its legal protection, bigotry has not, however, been attenuated in "the heart of man," more than a whit, if that; therefore, constant attention to the details is required - obviously - or America will, as has been evidenced, strive to slip back to those "bad ole days" of the 19th century and before.
While bigotry may have lost its legal protection, bigotry has not, however, been attenuated in "the heart of man," more than a whit, if that; therefore, constant attention to the details is required - obviously - or America will, as has been evidenced, strive to slip back to those "bad ole days" of the 19th century and before.
The whole problem here is the word "Male." If we only had just female officers, we would not be having this discussion. But, there is no end in sight.
Young males do NOT make the best choices. In fact, I wonder how any of us ever made it past our early 20's. Cops know that there is a good chance a young male either may be thinking of doing something "not very smart" or has recently done something "not very smart." That makes them a target.
When I was younger, I remember Cops pulling me over and roughing me up because I was young, dumb and you know the rest. Their best target is young males for a chance at excitement. They are easy to incite, and least likely to pursue charges against an Officer for any incident. Cops on a boring night like to do this why? Because a lot of them are also young, dumb, and you know the rest. The unbearable need to be Alpha males drove them to this low paying, very dangerous job, a recipe for disaster. I do believe some Cops are just dying for a kid to mouth off or push back so they can go off on them. An end to that boring night.
Some Cops become habitual in this practice as they progress in years on the job. They just get to liking that 'trumped up feeling of superiority.' Why can't anyone understand that? It is the "male" part of this equation. The thin blue line is what keeps the good cops from identifying the bad ones and is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. It absolutely needs to go away.
Young males do NOT make the best choices. In fact, I wonder how any of us ever made it past our early 20's. Cops know that there is a good chance a young male either may be thinking of doing something "not very smart" or has recently done something "not very smart." That makes them a target.
When I was younger, I remember Cops pulling me over and roughing me up because I was young, dumb and you know the rest. Their best target is young males for a chance at excitement. They are easy to incite, and least likely to pursue charges against an Officer for any incident. Cops on a boring night like to do this why? Because a lot of them are also young, dumb, and you know the rest. The unbearable need to be Alpha males drove them to this low paying, very dangerous job, a recipe for disaster. I do believe some Cops are just dying for a kid to mouth off or push back so they can go off on them. An end to that boring night.
Some Cops become habitual in this practice as they progress in years on the job. They just get to liking that 'trumped up feeling of superiority.' Why can't anyone understand that? It is the "male" part of this equation. The thin blue line is what keeps the good cops from identifying the bad ones and is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. It absolutely needs to go away.
2
This serves as a reply to Director Comer's Putinesque claim that brutality is necessary to make people compliant enough to be governed. I know I have benefited from White Privilege. As a bike messenger in the 1980's I knew the NYPD might bust my head but I would not be killed. My Black coworkers knew the opposite was true for them ( well not opposite cause they would get beat also). It was as accepted as the laws of gravity and motion we used to do our work. Every White person needs to truthfully search for where is their live they have experienced White Privilege?
There are so many police abuses out there and this is a serious one. Another is small towns looking for out of state license plates and then pulling over those drivers and charging them huge penalties because of course the travelers don't want to come back to another state to contest their case, as has happened to us in Wisconsin and Arkansas (and also in third world countries, where more expected). Legalized extortion. The police seem to think their abuse of power is very clever and hopefully with articles like this they are beginning to see that it erodes confidence in law enforcement and results in disrespect, lack of cooperation and even violence directed at the police, something that was previously unheard of.
On Friday evening I was driving in Manhattan and ended up mistakenly on a street that became one-way mid block with all the traffic on my side of the street routed into an entrance for the Queensborough Bridge. I didn't want to go to Queens. If I did, I'd miss the dinner reservation where I was meeting a party of people. I pulled forward, to the side of the road, and was approached by a traffic cop. I thought, "oh, no." I rolled down the window. The cop, who was a white man, said, "Ma'am, you don't want to go on the bridge?" I said no. He nodded and smiled, "Just pull a U-ey here, and go back" - and he stepped out into the street to stop any oncoming traffic. I turned around and drove on. No ticket for my clear traffic violation. No grief from the cop. My immediate thought: if I were a black man instead of a white woman, would that have happened that way?
47
So because a police officer used discretion and common sense to help you, his actions become the basis for imagined, potential, bigotry? Wow!
You wouldn't happen to be a young, attractive white woman would you? Not being smart here, but I think this is sometimes a factor. Men will be men.
1
Stacy, I have had many instances of cop courtesies similar to yours. All cops do NOT display reprehensible behavior. Yet, there are those who exhibit little commonsense; who sully the reputation of ALL cops; and who should be removed from dealing with citizens of our beloved country. They should NOT be coddled by those whose reputation they sully, by prosecutors, nor by jurors.
14
We are all guilty in a society that tracks everything - what we buy, what we read, where we travel, and who we communicate with. As a nation, our representatives believe we care more about security than our freedoms.
The difference is safety concern and rules of engagement. My dad, a volunteer policeman in a little town, had a flashlight and a nightstick for his use on duty. The images on TV, movies and on our streets show we have moved into another realm.
For over ten years, our family no longer calls either the neighborhood watch line or the police non-emergency line because the first response is a "search" on the caller's phone number.
As a protest against current tactics and policies, our family no longer trusts law enforcement to "protect and serve" and have put them on a "do not call"
list.
God bless the "Black Live Matter" movement for making us watch over and over what our security-conscious concerns have wrought.
The difference is safety concern and rules of engagement. My dad, a volunteer policeman in a little town, had a flashlight and a nightstick for his use on duty. The images on TV, movies and on our streets show we have moved into another realm.
For over ten years, our family no longer calls either the neighborhood watch line or the police non-emergency line because the first response is a "search" on the caller's phone number.
As a protest against current tactics and policies, our family no longer trusts law enforcement to "protect and serve" and have put them on a "do not call"
list.
God bless the "Black Live Matter" movement for making us watch over and over what our security-conscious concerns have wrought.
One point which jumped out from the data is the incredibly low rate at which traffic stops (in Fayetteville and Greensboro) result in consent searches for ANYONE (black or white). The relative racial disparity of searches is concerning and needs to be reviewed. But the larger point ignored by the article and most commentators is that 95%+ of the time there is no search of any driver. A different angle the NYT can cover in its next policing article would be titled "Professionalism of Law Enforcement Results in Record Number of Uneventful Traffic Stops during 2015".
2
I am a white senior citizen who has a penchant for speed and an older model American convertible muscle car. I accept that I will be pulled over at some point and probably ticketed. Why probably because the majority of the time I am not. Is it relief that find an old fogey behind the wheel? I do not know. 10 days ago I was coming home from a morning meeting on the west side of the DC Beltway going east and south and was speeding, 80+ mph at times. As I got to my exit and white SUV pulled in front of me and slowed me down. As I hit the street I punched it past the SUV and saw it was an unmarked car. I was pulled over immediately and this was the officer's statement" Sir please slow down so I do not have to pull you over". No nothing but a thank you to the officer. Yesterday I was late for the office and speeding down the road, forgetting to open WAZE. I would speed up to hit lights and slow down after passing through a light. Unfortunately I was not slowing down enough (from a top speed of 90 mph) and was pulled over. After introduction the office said I was speeding and was my top broken since it was cold (about 45 F). He came back for a ticket for driving in excess of posted speed, I have no idea my speed at that point but definitely in excess of 10 +mph over the speed limit. I get DWO but if I was a minority I would wager my treatment would have been different.
1
Your lead story starts off talking about the pair driving in a truck that had expired license plates and something else was wrong. If you the vehicle you are driving is not legal or if you are doing something illegal and the police see you than what do you want them to do? Look the other way? This liberal rag just like most of the main stream media is a joke at best. If you do not want to make contact with the police then why are you driving a vehicle that is illegal to be on the road. What do people want for the police to NOT do their job? When there is a murder or a robbery the same people who are whinning and moaning about the police will be the first to call on them. I for one do not know why anyone would want to be a policeman for any reason with the current liberal hacks gunning for them for any little thing....
3
Cops basically exist to hand out parking tickets and harass black people and that seems to be about it. Until they begin to understand that is that is the understandable view many hold of them, they will continue to have an image problem. I write this is as a white female.
1
It would be interesting to see how many of the police traffic stops cited by this article were made by black police officers. Although blacks comprise about 15% of the population they are responsible for about 85% of violent crimes. This is not racism just the facts.
Ever since Obama became president he has portrayed white people as racists despite the facts. Ferguson Missouri is an example. Racism works both ways and his statements have incited violence and jeopardized the safety of police officers.
Ever since Obama became president he has portrayed white people as racists despite the facts. Ferguson Missouri is an example. Racism works both ways and his statements have incited violence and jeopardized the safety of police officers.
4
Judging from the majority of the comments, it seems that all Americans, regardless of race or age, need to install dash cams to protect them from corrupt police thugs. Simply shameful and heartbreaking.
1
I am a while male who lives in a small town in Indiana along a major highway US-40. The town I live in has the speed limit set at 30mph along the center of this town. That right there is a speed trap coming from 55mph a little before that provides the excuse for traffic stops. Most of the traffic stops I see when I am driving by are ones in which the drivers are minorities (blacks or hispanics). I have often wondered what the statistics would be if they were ever tracked. This study, were it conducted where I live, would probably match the results at other places. The other thing I notice during these traffic stops is that often times the stops involve multiple police cars and an army of cops. How many cops do you need for a traffic stop? Anyway, I am not really surprised by the results of the study. But it is always good to have such results backed up by data and hard numbers, because the lack of them would give an excuse to people to shut down debate by saying there is no such trend. And without the hard data based, statistical results there is no way to refute such arguments.
Racism in North Carolina, huh? Why does this not surprise me. The Tea party is in charge of the state legislature. Teachers are treated like fast food workers. Election districts are so gerrymandered that no Democrat stands a snowball's chance. Voter suppression laws are aimed at the poor. (Rachel Maddow documented how the state assigned 9,000 voters registered voters to a facility that held 3 parking spaces. The nearby college town held lots of pesky Democrats.) The Tea Party of North Carolina wont be satisfied until they have created a medieval system of serfdom on the manors of the lords. And guess who is going to work the fields?
1
It's a sad day in America when the advice for surviving a police encounter as a black guy looks eerily close to the advice for surviving a bear attack in the wild:
"Keep your hands visible. Try to assess whether or not it thinks you're a threat.
You may want to run (or climb a tree), but don't. It's likely to cause more harm than good, if the predator has taken an interest in you.
Deal with the bear charge/officer aggression as calmly as possible. Noise may or may not make things worse.
Know when you need to play dead. If it roughs you up a bit, stay flat and silent.
Remember your companions. A companion / witness may save your life. Stay in calm communication with them.
If you can, escape whenever it's possible.
Lastly, if none of this has worked and it's life or death, fight with whatever you have on you. It's you or the bear/officer."
Makes you wonder exactly who/what we're putting badges on.
"Keep your hands visible. Try to assess whether or not it thinks you're a threat.
You may want to run (or climb a tree), but don't. It's likely to cause more harm than good, if the predator has taken an interest in you.
Deal with the bear charge/officer aggression as calmly as possible. Noise may or may not make things worse.
Know when you need to play dead. If it roughs you up a bit, stay flat and silent.
Remember your companions. A companion / witness may save your life. Stay in calm communication with them.
If you can, escape whenever it's possible.
Lastly, if none of this has worked and it's life or death, fight with whatever you have on you. It's you or the bear/officer."
Makes you wonder exactly who/what we're putting badges on.
As a white woman I admit to struggling with my prejudice. I admit to fear of "the other". But I qualify that with stating that having grown up in the deep South during segregation and seeing the horrors of that great social injustice, I have always been prejudiced against the police. I have always feared them when they are around blacks even if they are standing on the street and appear to be having friendly conversations with blacks. I have seen that "friendly conversation" turn deadly within minutes and never can trust it fully.
And now, in my waning years and living thousands of miles away, I have little trouble believing that, for many blacks, nothing but nothing has changed and I am still afraid for them when a police officer is involved in any way.
I've always had good relationships with the few police I've encountered over the years. I've known several black women who have been treated very differently and they are as nice and ordinary and without criminal actions or intent as the police assume I am, .
And now, in my waning years and living thousands of miles away, I have little trouble believing that, for many blacks, nothing but nothing has changed and I am still afraid for them when a police officer is involved in any way.
I've always had good relationships with the few police I've encountered over the years. I've known several black women who have been treated very differently and they are as nice and ordinary and without criminal actions or intent as the police assume I am, .
Some see a solution in creating a new police culture. Not sure. Elites created police force for their protection. They don't expect police officers to protect lower-classes people.
Blacks make up about 13% of the population but are responsible for about 41% of police deaths. About 85% of all violent crimes are committed by blacks.
The police should not use excessive force however they wouldn't be doing their job of protecting people and themselves if they ignored these statistics.
The police should not use excessive force however they wouldn't be doing their job of protecting people and themselves if they ignored these statistics.
3
I live in a newly urbanized and revitalized core of a traditional Midwest city. I have never, ever had to call the police on Caucasian, Mexican, or Asian loiters. I have yet to see any other race in the city, which is half African American, smoking weed in the park in front of my apartment or loitering during the day.
Even last week, there was a fight and screaming outside of my apartment, a nicer area of the downtown area, and rap music blaring. Of course, 3 people called the police. I cannot even go to the local city library due to loitering, drug deals and passed out bums in the bathroom - 95% African American.
Call this profiling, I call it good policing. If anything, police here, and probably in SC need more resources. African Americans makeup 13% of the US population but are so deeply involved in prison and gangs? Quickly paint the facts as 'Racist'; I call it real life outside of the liberal affluent suburb bubble. I see the same saints' vicious reactions when The Times suggests Section 8 should be moved to their suburb. Armchair philosophizing on racial issues is fun until it's outside your doorstep, then you want the police there.
Maybe it's time to retool the argument to how you can help undermined minorities instead of blaming everyone else.
Even last week, there was a fight and screaming outside of my apartment, a nicer area of the downtown area, and rap music blaring. Of course, 3 people called the police. I cannot even go to the local city library due to loitering, drug deals and passed out bums in the bathroom - 95% African American.
Call this profiling, I call it good policing. If anything, police here, and probably in SC need more resources. African Americans makeup 13% of the US population but are so deeply involved in prison and gangs? Quickly paint the facts as 'Racist'; I call it real life outside of the liberal affluent suburb bubble. I see the same saints' vicious reactions when The Times suggests Section 8 should be moved to their suburb. Armchair philosophizing on racial issues is fun until it's outside your doorstep, then you want the police there.
Maybe it's time to retool the argument to how you can help undermined minorities instead of blaming everyone else.
19
Fascinating...
The article clearly involves a multitude of detailed and scientific studies, thousands upon thousands of records, and very and indisputable evidence of racial bias.
You present highly subjective and anecdotal evidence of one person's view of one small neighborhood.
Yet, as a conservative, you simply dismiss all the massive quantities of evidence of bias to claim your own personal anecdote proves there is no bias, anywhere.
But then, a multitude of studies have long found the average conservative to be immune from facts or science...
The article clearly involves a multitude of detailed and scientific studies, thousands upon thousands of records, and very and indisputable evidence of racial bias.
You present highly subjective and anecdotal evidence of one person's view of one small neighborhood.
Yet, as a conservative, you simply dismiss all the massive quantities of evidence of bias to claim your own personal anecdote proves there is no bias, anywhere.
But then, a multitude of studies have long found the average conservative to be immune from facts or science...
1
You know, I don't think anyone is asking the police to not do their job. It's that their job doesn't include harassing innocent people. The fact that most of those harassed are African-American, despite the fact that actual crime rates are similar regardless of race, just makes it worse.
Suggestions, aside from more policing? No, I thought not; just move.
It would be interesting to do a similar story about targeting young drivers. There's no question I was pulled over for very minor violations when I was younger much more than when I got to be middle-aged.
3
I am neither white nor black and I am afraid many of my encounters with cops have been where they were polite or even helpful. Here is one story.
I was taking my GF home when I missed my right turn to street A say. I could take a U turn but it was prohibited and a police car was right behind me. I just stopped and sure enough the cop pulled up to me."What is the problem?" he asked and I said "where is street A?"
"Oh, just back across the light and take a right turn," he said and I followed his (illegal) instructions, dropping my GF safely at home.
Cops are not angels, but neither are they the racist devils they are made out to be. I live in area which was blocked off after 9-11 for several days. You always had to pass a police cordon to go home and they always politely let you through after you explained yourself.
As one of my teachers likes to say, "There is no way to peace. Peace IS the way."
I was taking my GF home when I missed my right turn to street A say. I could take a U turn but it was prohibited and a police car was right behind me. I just stopped and sure enough the cop pulled up to me."What is the problem?" he asked and I said "where is street A?"
"Oh, just back across the light and take a right turn," he said and I followed his (illegal) instructions, dropping my GF safely at home.
Cops are not angels, but neither are they the racist devils they are made out to be. I live in area which was blocked off after 9-11 for several days. You always had to pass a police cordon to go home and they always politely let you through after you explained yourself.
As one of my teachers likes to say, "There is no way to peace. Peace IS the way."
3
If one takes a look at the number of stops and the ratio of contraband one finds you see that you are much more likely to find total numbers of contraband by stopping blacks. And our national crime statistics vs. the percentage of the population also bear this out. So, what are police to do - ignore facts and judgement and just let people go because they are black or make a judgement call based on statistics? It really is a two edged sword - by percentage of population blacks commit more crimes, so they are more likely to be involved in one.
3
So it remains that the most dangerous element in police encounter is if the police perceives "disrespect" then he is going to arrest you on a humble if not taser or shoot you.
In my 30 years of driving, I've been stopped by police on flimsy claims about 15 times in NY, NJ, CT and CA. I'd say about 2 out of 3 incidents, the officer has been condescending or provocative. Since I don't engage in their nonsense and my papers have always been in order, I've only been written four tickets - all of which I was able to easily beat in court.
But what an enormous waste of time and unfortunately for many others, it doesn't turn out as well.
In my 30 years of driving, I've been stopped by police on flimsy claims about 15 times in NY, NJ, CT and CA. I'd say about 2 out of 3 incidents, the officer has been condescending or provocative. Since I don't engage in their nonsense and my papers have always been in order, I've only been written four tickets - all of which I was able to easily beat in court.
But what an enormous waste of time and unfortunately for many others, it doesn't turn out as well.
23
You beat tickets in court? So you're saying in multiple cases you insisted on an actual trial? Really? I doubt that.
Technology to prevent our cars from speeding would not be expensive, and if rolled-out to cars would eliminated the need to go after speeders. Then, police would only be needed when called. They could be visible in our communities, but would not stop cars for minor infractions, and they should not be used to randomly search for drugs. Police would then be used only when needed. It is time to implement these actions across the Country.
1
After reading these comments it becomes clear how anti-police so many people have become, unjustly. Yet every one of you who are condemning them would pick up your phones and call them in a second if you were a victim of a crime.
We've all had our issues with over-zealous police, after all it takes a certain mentality to make one want to take on the dangers of the job in the first place, but the widespread claims of abuse by people who come into contact with them because they broke the law should open people's eyes to the fact that if you follow the law you will not have negative contact with police.
I am all for body cams as long as they are used sensibly, but it's unlikely that will happen. Instead video of cops behaving badly will dominate the airwaves while videos of lawbreakers behaving badly will be protected by lawyers so as usual we will get a completely biased view.
Because we all know the gentle giant was going to go on to do great things if only the rogue cop hadn't killed him when he had his hands up surrendering.
I was pulled over once for expired plates, I had simply forgotten, so I took the ticket and went about my day. End of story.
We've all had our issues with over-zealous police, after all it takes a certain mentality to make one want to take on the dangers of the job in the first place, but the widespread claims of abuse by people who come into contact with them because they broke the law should open people's eyes to the fact that if you follow the law you will not have negative contact with police.
I am all for body cams as long as they are used sensibly, but it's unlikely that will happen. Instead video of cops behaving badly will dominate the airwaves while videos of lawbreakers behaving badly will be protected by lawyers so as usual we will get a completely biased view.
Because we all know the gentle giant was going to go on to do great things if only the rogue cop hadn't killed him when he had his hands up surrendering.
I was pulled over once for expired plates, I had simply forgotten, so I took the ticket and went about my day. End of story.
2
DWB exists all across the US, as the disturbing statistics from Torrington, CT make obvious. Many years ago, driving along the Thruway between Albany and Syracuse, I had two African-American friends in the car, sitting in the front passenger seat and directly behind him. We were in a long file of cars, in the right lane, going about 70 mph (the speed limit was 65). It was night, but when we drove by a police car sitting on the side of the highway, he pulled out, siren blazing, and pulled me over for speeding. You should have seen the shock on his face when the driver turned out to be white. After he left, my friends, who had been suppressing their giggles, laughed and told me that I now had the distinction of being the rare whitey to be ticketed for DWB. For years, driving up I-95 between DC and NY, seeing the race of those pulled over for violations has been a sobering reminder that DWB remains a ticketing offense. My empirical observation would be that the race of the maniacs driving 90 mph and weaving in and out of traffic on I-95 - a regular part of its landscape - reflects the general racial distribution of the population, whereas the racial distribution of those sitting by the side of the road, in the company of a police car, does not. The situation on the NJT has improved since the scandal; that shift shows that change is possible, but it requires the community - not the police alone, but the COMMUNITY - to take action.
1
Police rely to much on traffic stops. They need to get out of their cars and walk public areas and speak to those they meet. Learn about the community and the people. Treat people with dignity and they will tell you when there is a crime.
The use of military equipment by police department was in the wrong direction. The farther police are from the people the worst outcomes are.
The use of military equipment by police department was in the wrong direction. The farther police are from the people the worst outcomes are.
1
I am not an attorney, but an attorney once told me that if the police ask if they can search your car, it is because they need your permission. My answer would be "no, I do not consent to searching my car" very loudly and assertively even if I have nothing to hide.
2
As is usually the case, the vast majority of NYT readers have weighed in this article with the obligatory "cops are the problem" approach.
OK, let's re-write the laws banning traffic stops w/o clear and overwhelming evidence of any crime affecting the lives of others. No more equipment violations.
Let's begin treating traffic stops with a standard of probable cause that approaches our 4th amendment search and seizure requirements.
Let's make every cop document each encounter with every citizen and justify their decision to approach anyone at all.
As several articles have shown lately, cops throughout America are in fact pulling back from officer-initiated encounters. To deny that officers simply do not want to be labelled as thugs because of heavily edited video clips is disingenuous.
So, in effect, those millions of Americans who have demanded cops to retreat have won the battle. Congratulations to all of you in your perceived victory.
In your victory celebration however, please have the openness over the next several years to understand that the "other" thugs will feel ever more confident to inflict their criminal ways on those who are least able to fight back: the poor of America.
Disagree? then sign up for ride-a-longs with patrol officers in your community. After just a few days of that, you may not have time ( or the desire) to sit in front of a computer with your simplistic approach to our country's safety.
OK, let's re-write the laws banning traffic stops w/o clear and overwhelming evidence of any crime affecting the lives of others. No more equipment violations.
Let's begin treating traffic stops with a standard of probable cause that approaches our 4th amendment search and seizure requirements.
Let's make every cop document each encounter with every citizen and justify their decision to approach anyone at all.
As several articles have shown lately, cops throughout America are in fact pulling back from officer-initiated encounters. To deny that officers simply do not want to be labelled as thugs because of heavily edited video clips is disingenuous.
So, in effect, those millions of Americans who have demanded cops to retreat have won the battle. Congratulations to all of you in your perceived victory.
In your victory celebration however, please have the openness over the next several years to understand that the "other" thugs will feel ever more confident to inflict their criminal ways on those who are least able to fight back: the poor of America.
Disagree? then sign up for ride-a-longs with patrol officers in your community. After just a few days of that, you may not have time ( or the desire) to sit in front of a computer with your simplistic approach to our country's safety.
2
Typical chilish, irrational response by police to criticism of how they do their job.
If we can't act with impunity and harrass, intinidate, unjustly arrest, and use brutal and lethal force as we see fit, without review or criticism, then we'll refuse to do our jobs (but still collect our pay) and you'll ultimately regret it.
This type of response is indicative of the maturity, integrity and reasonableness of those defending the police conduct described in the artice.
If we can't act with impunity and harrass, intinidate, unjustly arrest, and use brutal and lethal force as we see fit, without review or criticism, then we'll refuse to do our jobs (but still collect our pay) and you'll ultimately regret it.
This type of response is indicative of the maturity, integrity and reasonableness of those defending the police conduct described in the artice.
1
Wait just a minute. I would like to know if data also shows that a disproportionate number of blacks have given probable cause to be stopped - and when stopped prove to have a disproportionate number of outstanding warrants? Police officers also want to go home to their families after their shifts.
5
It would be valuable to see how stops by African American cops compare with stops by white cops. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see it anywhere in the article. If African American cops are approximately as likely to stop African American drivers as white cops are, then racial animus can't be the explanation. If they are significantly less likely, then the charge of racism is justified.
2
Racial disparity of arrests or traffic stops is irrelevant without knowing the racial disparity of crimes committed and violations of the law.
The racial disparity in prisons is due to the racial disparity in crime.
To create a positive change,leaders and activists should demand that individuals
1.obey the law
2. don't abuse drugs and alcohol
3. get the best education and work skills possible
4. don't have children before you can support them
The racial disparity in prisons is due to the racial disparity in crime.
To create a positive change,leaders and activists should demand that individuals
1.obey the law
2. don't abuse drugs and alcohol
3. get the best education and work skills possible
4. don't have children before you can support them
7
My experience is that police target younger drivers. One time I got stopped near a high school when I was 30, but as soon as the officer saw that I had a baby with me and obviously wasn't in high school, he waved me on.
We used to live on a corner near a high school. Officers used to hide there several times a week waiting for students coming from the school.
My older son was charged several times with having two passengers in the car. That caused an extension of the only one passenger rule. He said he had a really hard time refusing to drive other kids. We bought our younger son a 2 person car.
The police there also used to hide in the bushes (on foot, no car) to catch high school students smoking cigarettes.
We used to live on a corner near a high school. Officers used to hide there several times a week waiting for students coming from the school.
My older son was charged several times with having two passengers in the car. That caused an extension of the only one passenger rule. He said he had a really hard time refusing to drive other kids. We bought our younger son a 2 person car.
The police there also used to hide in the bushes (on foot, no car) to catch high school students smoking cigarettes.
9
Apparently you missed that stopping people based on those violations was being done disproportionately to Blacks. The idea is to let minor infractions go across the board to eliminate the bias in the stops, and the potential for unnecessary escalations, not only stop Whites. What were you reading? or maybe you were Reading While White...
The evidence for profiling by cops crops up several times a year, year after year. Why? It seems that knowledge of injustice is not sufficient to initiate changes in the system. At some level of government change does not or cannot occur because prejudice is not an issue to some powerful leaders whether they are elected leaders or appointed leaders a do nothing attitude toward profiling is wrong. Human justice must be color blind. For all of our efforts toward color blind equal rights and justice through the twentieth century we still have a long way in the twenty first century.
6
don't just analyze the race issue. also analyze the probable cause for stops issue. ours (a white family) was stopped for driving above the speed limit by a few mph on a back road in NC. long stop, lot of questioning, $385 fine that required either a hearing in person or hiring a NC lawyer to handle (within a week of the stop we received 5 different contacts from lawyers plugged into the system, and hiring one was necessary because we lived far away and couldn't return; easier to pay the fine and the lawyer and get it over with). In upstate NY, i was stopped once and vehicle searched by flashlight for "driving too slow." the state trooper implied that i might have drugs in the car. i had 2 toddlers in the car and was driving slow through a maze of those blinding traffic cones that are set up with only inches to spare along a median when there is no visible road work in progress at night but the signs say there is work.
12
The other solution is don't drive. What about bicycle riders?
I remember seeing once an episode of the TV show "Cops" (which shows actual police making stops, busts, etc.) where an officer actually stopped and searched a man on a bicycle! His offense? Riding a bike at night without a light.
He had drugs on him and was arrested. The thing is, he probably was not stopped for being black (he happened to be black), but more likely because he was in a drug sale area and was probably known to the officer.
He had drugs on him and was arrested. The thing is, he probably was not stopped for being black (he happened to be black), but more likely because he was in a drug sale area and was probably known to the officer.
And it's not just blacks who are at risk. A young white kid was pulled over in Michigan last winter for simply flashing his high beams at a passing police car, and ended up being shot to death after the stop escalated into a fight. Unbelievable. Should never have happened.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/16/us/michigan-sheriffs-sergeant-teen-shootin...
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/16/us/michigan-sheriffs-sergeant-teen-shootin...
12
So what are we to do---dumb down the law? Expired plates, Inoperative tail lights, past due inspection...ignore for blacks but enforce for whites. Automotive Affirmative Action? Or enforce equally and the results are what they are.
We will be reading these type articles 100 years from now until we break the cycle of fatherless homes, out of wedlock births, unsafe inner city, inability to get an education because class room is anarchy and home is not helpful to homework. Do drugs, drop out of school, become a criminal, unemployable, go on welfare. Make some babies, skip the scene. Repeat. It is very discouraging to whites who would truly like to see blacks be equal economic participants in our society.
We will be reading these type articles 100 years from now until we break the cycle of fatherless homes, out of wedlock births, unsafe inner city, inability to get an education because class room is anarchy and home is not helpful to homework. Do drugs, drop out of school, become a criminal, unemployable, go on welfare. Make some babies, skip the scene. Repeat. It is very discouraging to whites who would truly like to see blacks be equal economic participants in our society.
25
They only had an expired tag. Oh, so does that mean I don’t need to pay the State I live in $300 a year for a tag, plus emissions certificate and any repairs that could be needed prior to passing that test. Not to mention a couple of thousand dollars a year for insurance.
Operating a car is a privilege, not a right. If you cannot afford to operate a car legally use alternate transportation.
The NYT continues these ‘it’s not fair’ articles every day. How about one ‘it’s not fair’ articles about those that pick-up be tab for the free loaders.
Operating a car is a privilege, not a right. If you cannot afford to operate a car legally use alternate transportation.
The NYT continues these ‘it’s not fair’ articles every day. How about one ‘it’s not fair’ articles about those that pick-up be tab for the free loaders.
All the issues here are penalties for being poor. And the enforcement is not equal across racial and economic lines, which is the point of the article. If the enforcement was equal across white, black, poor and rich you would see a huge backlash from those that have the means to complain. You think rich people don't forget to renew their license and registration? The difference is those people get let off with a warning, if they get caught at all, since their community is not policed in the same fashion.
You're taking poor people, ladling on a heap of regulations that they sometimes can't afford to pay and then over policing to find the people that can't pay and then sending them into a cycle of fines, court appearances, lost wages and jobs because they lose their ability to transport themselves.
You're taking poor people, ladling on a heap of regulations that they sometimes can't afford to pay and then over policing to find the people that can't pay and then sending them into a cycle of fines, court appearances, lost wages and jobs because they lose their ability to transport themselves.
I'd love to see the article you come up with where you complain about how unfair it is that you don't live in poverty and you don't get pulled over by the cops for the color of your skin.
Come up with a few more overly simplistic solutions that ignore the reality of most urban areas. "Oh, you don't have a car you can drive legally, just take all that alternate transportation available to you." Which alternate transportation? Which urban areas rife with poverty do you see having great public transportation infrastructure?
Come up with a few more overly simplistic solutions that ignore the reality of most urban areas. "Oh, you don't have a car you can drive legally, just take all that alternate transportation available to you." Which alternate transportation? Which urban areas rife with poverty do you see having great public transportation infrastructure?
It's not just Greensboro. It's not new. It's a national epidemic.
11
It's existed since the days of slavery, just more subtle these days.
The absolute gall of white Americans to believe they are better that any other ethnicity, is pitiful; how they can stand themselves is beyond me.
The absolute gall of white Americans to believe they are better that any other ethnicity, is pitiful; how they can stand themselves is beyond me.
1
This article starts out hugely biased. Since when are expired plates a "minor infraction" - let alone driving around with big pieces of metal improperly sticking out of your truck?
The conduct described sounds wildly inappropriate - but how can you trust the narrative? What was left out of the story?
The conduct described sounds wildly inappropriate - but how can you trust the narrative? What was left out of the story?
22
Expired plates have always been a minor infraction because in 99% of cases, they are the result of a law abiding car owner having forgotten to send in the renewal paper. That was especially true before online renewals became common. The requirement of tag renewal is just a just a means of raising money. Being late with your renewal doesn't convert your car into a stolen vehicle or you into a criminal. It's no different than missing any other bill. Even the most conscientious do it a couple of times in life. Suggesting otherwise is pretty disingenuous.
Well, the good reporters did mention that a black officer was responsible for stunning Rufus with the Taser.
Wow, this just in. We've known this for years; it was called "driving while black'" at least twenty years ago. What took you so long?
5
But how do we weed these bad cops out? That's the problem. My son is in law enforcement and he has instilled in his children that the police are there to help you - to never be afraid to approach them if you are lost or scared. He is so upset at the way the police are being portrayed and the way that they are being thought of now. It is up to the various police departments to rid themselves of these bad cops to save the lives of the good cops. Not an easy job but so necessary.
9
I agree that most cops are good people out to do a good job. The problem (as I see it) is that when a legitimately "bad" cop is found the rank and file police should be the FIRST ONES to denounce that cop and see that he/she gets what a bad cop deserves.
Instead, we often see the head of the local police union denouncing what is often obvious. The blue wall circling the wagons around "one of their own" no matter how much discredit it has brought on all the good cops taking it on the chin from the public mistrust that the good cops don't deserve. I realize that "accusation" does not indicate guilt until a thorough cool headed investigation is done, and the accused should not be prematurely condemned. But neither is a knee jerk "us cops against them" defense right either.
I know many good cops WELCOME body video cameras. They know if they are in the right the camera will be their best friend against the political powers that be on BOTH sides of the controversy.
So Mr good policeman. You should be the FIRST one to show outrage at bad cops and you should be leading the fight to get rid of them. If the public saw that it might actually start to restore the confidence the public used to have in the police. The song and dance from the us against them crowd just makes the average citizen think that "the bad cop will get off." Never a good result...especially for the good cops!
Instead, we often see the head of the local police union denouncing what is often obvious. The blue wall circling the wagons around "one of their own" no matter how much discredit it has brought on all the good cops taking it on the chin from the public mistrust that the good cops don't deserve. I realize that "accusation" does not indicate guilt until a thorough cool headed investigation is done, and the accused should not be prematurely condemned. But neither is a knee jerk "us cops against them" defense right either.
I know many good cops WELCOME body video cameras. They know if they are in the right the camera will be their best friend against the political powers that be on BOTH sides of the controversy.
So Mr good policeman. You should be the FIRST one to show outrage at bad cops and you should be leading the fight to get rid of them. If the public saw that it might actually start to restore the confidence the public used to have in the police. The song and dance from the us against them crowd just makes the average citizen think that "the bad cop will get off." Never a good result...especially for the good cops!
Such police behavior is not unusual, even in the sophisticated environs of Stamford, Connecticut. As an immigrant, and one who became a Commissioner in city government there, I discounted many of the indignities displayed by the police since I was not then yet aware of the response of Law Enforcement to different segments of the community. Now, I recall incidents and conclude objectively, that not only were the police insensitive at best, and broke the law at worst, but at least in one case, the defense counsel was unethical and complicit.
I have hesitated to expose such conduct, but for my own sanity and the good of this country, I may one day write about my experience and let the chips fall where they may.
I have hesitated to expose such conduct, but for my own sanity and the good of this country, I may one day write about my experience and let the chips fall where they may.
6
Before the profiling scandal broke in Jersey, I would drive a 12 mile stretch on 78 leading to my office's headquarters. The road was speed trapped by state troopers. Even so it was common to see a majority of cars traveling between 5 to 10 miles over the speed limit Back then particularly in the morning rush the traffic appeared to be predominately white business people going to work with some commercial vehicles mixed in. Then I started to notice something unusual and I kept count. Seeing cars pulled over on the shoulder by state troopers, I noticed over a weeks period that 6 consecutive vehicles contained minorities. I stopped counting. So when the profiling story broke I was not surprised. What did surprise me that this was Jersey and not somewhere in the deep south.
8
Do you know what they were pulled over for or are you just guessing, The state patrol will almost always ignore 5-10mph over the highway limit.
Well if 90% of the traffic is white and 100% of the people in a week pulled over are black what would you be guessing.
I grew up in a neighborhood in NY where there was a moderate amount of crime. As a small Jewish white boy I got picked on a bit. Mostly black kids., but 2 white kids, in particular, twin brothers. Im 57 years old now and i often try to find out what happened to the people i grew up with, including the ones who antagonized me. Most of the black kids are dead or in jail. The white kids became police.
12
While black people are disproportionately affected, once stopped, citizens of all races are at risk of having unsafe interactions with police.
The protections in the US Constitution are worthless when police conduct illegal searches, plant evidence, lie on reports and in court, escalate, and file false charges.
The problems by prosecutors who lie, hide evidence, and are happy to lock up innocent people to pad their resumes.
Black people have always gotten the worst of it, but no citizen is safe from police and prosecutors should they get the wrong ones. Our systems are designed to rely upon honest police and prosecutors. We know that is a false assumption. America needs systems that have built in checks and balances rather than relying upon an assumption of honesty from those with power.
The American system is broken from beat cop to district attorney and anyone who has any confidence in it hasn't been paying attention.
The protections in the US Constitution are worthless when police conduct illegal searches, plant evidence, lie on reports and in court, escalate, and file false charges.
The problems by prosecutors who lie, hide evidence, and are happy to lock up innocent people to pad their resumes.
Black people have always gotten the worst of it, but no citizen is safe from police and prosecutors should they get the wrong ones. Our systems are designed to rely upon honest police and prosecutors. We know that is a false assumption. America needs systems that have built in checks and balances rather than relying upon an assumption of honesty from those with power.
The American system is broken from beat cop to district attorney and anyone who has any confidence in it hasn't been paying attention.
12
So how should behavior of district attorneys be monitored?
I had a super big problem w a district attorney in Steamboat Springs Colorado named Elizabeth Wittemyer. She prosecuted me without a written statement of probable cause or an arraignment and then opposed my attorney's motion for a probable cause hearing after she filed a motion to dismiss.
I the Rules of Criminal Procedure the prosecutor was not allowed to win a MTD without an oral hearing but she did it anyway. She also altered the preprinted form to add a category that probable cause existed but it was too expensive to try me. Then she gave a press conference saying I was guilty. She never met me. She knew I did nothing criminal.
I'm convinced she did this to further her husband's real estate business. I was charged for complaining that my neighbor Kevin Bennett's property violated the ordinances. How about a rental mini house 5 feet from the front property line? Doesn't this sound like corruption to you? It was First Amendment Retaliation.
I had a super big problem w a district attorney in Steamboat Springs Colorado named Elizabeth Wittemyer. She prosecuted me without a written statement of probable cause or an arraignment and then opposed my attorney's motion for a probable cause hearing after she filed a motion to dismiss.
I the Rules of Criminal Procedure the prosecutor was not allowed to win a MTD without an oral hearing but she did it anyway. She also altered the preprinted form to add a category that probable cause existed but it was too expensive to try me. Then she gave a press conference saying I was guilty. She never met me. She knew I did nothing criminal.
I'm convinced she did this to further her husband's real estate business. I was charged for complaining that my neighbor Kevin Bennett's property violated the ordinances. How about a rental mini house 5 feet from the front property line? Doesn't this sound like corruption to you? It was First Amendment Retaliation.
6 months ago, about 12:30am in East Oakland, Calif., I turned onto a wide but poorly-lit boulevard that seemed empty of other traffic (2 wide lines in each direction + wide median strip + 2 wide shoulders, in each direction-one for each lane). Because the road was "wide open", I put my foot on the gas. After a mile and a half, blue flashing lights appeared in my rearview mirror. A visibly enraged OPD officer walked up to my window and chastised me for driving ~80mph in a 35mph zone. Chastened (I had no idea I had been driving that fast tho' my car is deceptively quiet a high speed), I apologized, neither denying his allegation nor offering excuse. He castigated for endangering other people's lives. I responded simply that I was very tired and anxious to get home and was distracted by thoughts what I had to do the next day (this was a lame, but true, response). He eventually handed me my license. I asked: "Is that it? You're not going to give me a ticket?", to which he shouted "GO HOME!" It would defy the reality we all know that exists to believe that this outcome would have been similar if I'd been a young black male who'd been driving my car ("a young black male driving a sharp-looking SUV must have stolen it") or driving a beat-up old Chevy with a minor vehicle violation. I'd have likely been thrown face down onto the concrete, car and body searched and, if I protested, arrested for resisting arrest. My experience was one of unchallenged white privilege.
11
Your experience sounds to me like one of an OPD officer assessing the situation: late, empty street, a local resident, you not drunk or high - and making a judgement call that you'd learned enough from the conversation to likely not repeat. That's good community police work.
We didn't gain anything from you sharing your self-imposed guilt trip. Maybe try giving the officer some credit.
We didn't gain anything from you sharing your self-imposed guilt trip. Maybe try giving the officer some credit.
1
You did not deny or minimize what you were doing. You did not challenge the officer for stopping you. You were polite, gave a somewhat lame excuse. The officer lectured you about safety - doesn't sound like you argued - and chose not to give you a ticket. Anyone responding the same would have likely gotten the same result.
Young Black men - who comprise only 3 percent of the U.S. Population - commit over 50 percent of all violent crime in this country. Due to the collapse of the Black family since the welfare society from the 1960s, few have a male role model at home. A perfect society would be wonderful but given these facts is it any wonder that cops - just as Jesse Jackson admitted himself - are anxious and on high alert whenever they confront a young Black male(s)?
11
So because of the "collapse of the Black family"?, disproportionate crime rates, all bets are off for the police to have to treat Black males (and females) in a way that is consistent with their humanity/the law? And I love that you have definitively determined that welfare is the cause of the "collapse"? Strange when there are huge numbers of White families receiving it, too...
Young white men also commit violent crime out of all proportion to their percentage of the population. Close to 50% of young white men are arrested i this country, yet they constitute, what 10% of the population?
In any event, what does violent crime have to do with the police using unjustified stops as a pretext to search for personally possessed illegal drugs? Is that also a violent crime? And what justifies police denigrating 50 and 60 year old black men and women? I really do tire of people spouting violent crime stats as a justification for police abuse.
If a subset of police officers is so blinded by their racial biases or racial fears that they can't do their jobs properly, they are unsuited to be police officers. Period.
In any event, what does violent crime have to do with the police using unjustified stops as a pretext to search for personally possessed illegal drugs? Is that also a violent crime? And what justifies police denigrating 50 and 60 year old black men and women? I really do tire of people spouting violent crime stats as a justification for police abuse.
If a subset of police officers is so blinded by their racial biases or racial fears that they can't do their jobs properly, they are unsuited to be police officers. Period.
Please! With over 200,000 unsolved murders since the 1960's (research it, right, left, center the number is always in the same ballpark) none of these percentages are trustworthy, all they do is give people an excuse to hang onto their racist and prejudicial mindset.
Anyway, to judge a whole section of society based on the actions of a few or even many is prejudiced from the get go. Even if 5 people from the same demographic commit crimes then you still have 5 who are innocent. People should "not be judged by the color of their skin", (or economic level, or religious affiliation, or, or, or ...)
Anyway, to judge a whole section of society based on the actions of a few or even many is prejudiced from the get go. Even if 5 people from the same demographic commit crimes then you still have 5 who are innocent. People should "not be judged by the color of their skin", (or economic level, or religious affiliation, or, or, or ...)
My experience as a White man working in Times Square with Black co-workers is that they received a non-verbal social slight from Whites about once every two minutes all day long. It NEVER stopped. They all trained themselves to ignore it all. When I have written about this on most political websites, the response from the Right is that I am describing anecdotal evidence that couldn't possibly be true, just as the Greensboro study reported in this article will be discounted because it is not random and it relies upon police reports, rather than completely independent observation.
Note that studies that are randomized, that rely upon completely independent observations, and follow up to date proper social science and statistical procedures will be attacked as too abstracted from reality. Only studies that conclude that racism no longer exists and confirm that bias will be accepted by the Right.
Many American Whites believe racism is over. Studies showing that racism still exists are not believed. People who believe they are not racist and that racism no longer exists construe any and all such studies as proving their views, even though they DISprove their views.
Note that studies that are randomized, that rely upon completely independent observations, and follow up to date proper social science and statistical procedures will be attacked as too abstracted from reality. Only studies that conclude that racism no longer exists and confirm that bias will be accepted by the Right.
Many American Whites believe racism is over. Studies showing that racism still exists are not believed. People who believe they are not racist and that racism no longer exists construe any and all such studies as proving their views, even though they DISprove their views.
22
Racism does exist. Racism will always exist. It exists in black people as well as white. All we can ask for is that the law does not recognize race. I do not believe there is a single person who would tell that racism no longer exists. Do you have a name behind that belief or are you just trying to make matters worse than they are.
I find it interesting that the police forces constantly uprooted from the broader society. The problems with the police force is simply a reflection of the American society at large.
1
No vehicle registration? Exactly why are we charged utterly ridiculous fees to register a vehicle? Who gave anyone the authority to do it this particular way? I NEVER recall being asked on a ballot to approve ridiculous laws and fees associated with owning a vehicle. The only one that does make sense is requiring insurance. And as the author of this story illustrated, no one can drive for more than a few blocks without violating some law that likely should not exist. When laws transcend public safety and exist only to control the citizenry, they cease to be serving the public good.
4
If a vehicle is not registered, how does one know to whom it belongs? Would you like to have to contact every insurance company to make a claim against the driver whose car hit yours? If not for the license plate registered with the state, how would you identify the vehicle? Where you live, things might be different, but here in NC, the registration process in the larger urban areas involves paying $30 for an inspection, plus another $28 for the plate, plus whatever taxes (a sliding scale based upon vehicle value) are due on the car. In my county, we also pay a $15 public transportation subsidy fee. These fees pale in comparison to car loan payments and gasoline costs, and I wouldn't call them utterly ridiculous or a threat to public safety; in fact, I would imagine that they enhance public safety by making drivers aware that others have the means to identify them from outside of the car, and, in the case of required inspections, ensures that unsafe and exceptionally polluting vehicles are not on the road. And in NC, a vehicle can be renewed by Internet up to 90 days before the registration expires, with paper notices sent out a month prior to the expiration and an ample grace period after it expires. In any case, we citizens aren't allowed to pick and choose which laws we would like to observe.
2
There is no question that there are many moments in life where being African American can be a liability. An un deserving liability that effects all of society. But What I would love to read one day somewhere is the story that talks about the elephant in the room: that a percentage of people perceive most African Americans as having a higher disposition for crime, being problematic and underperforming. I think its that perception that traps society in misrepresenting African Americans as prone to do bad. Taking a look at the picture of the brothers who were stopped you can see that their dress, manner of standing and even the cigarillo one is smoking would identify them as what most other groups and many middle and upper class African Americans would describe as " problematic". Added to the fact they were legally stopped makes it all the more believable. Are such thoughts just perception or reality? Or is it that perception is reality regardless of the truth?
6
The elephant in the room? Isn't that supposed to refer to something that people see but don't address as opposed to something that people see and talk about incessantly? If you saw a picture of two white men wearing the exact same clothes and in the exact same pose, would they also appear to represent trouble? Sounds like someone is deep into rationalizing their his biases.
What if we automated speeding tickets? Now that's a way to eschew gender bias! Here's a story from Brazil, in which the "automation" of police tasks brought good results and less opportunities for police abuse:
What's the point in allocating police officers to perform something as simple (and automatable) as a speeding ticket?
Here in Brazil, up until the 90s, police officers were the only ones responsible for speed limit enforcement. With wages low, speed limit enforcement was a quick way for crooked officers to make a buck: police picked any car, stated it was speeding, and asked for a "minor, direct cash contribution" (aka bribe) for the driver, to make the ticket go away. Handouts were so common accountants bragged about having ways to fill them as travel costs. Needless to say, speeding was endemic.
In order to reduce the amount of police officers allocated in speed enforcement duty (thus allowing them to chase more serious offences), pilots of speed camera enforcement were conducted, with very positive results (reducing accidents caused by speeding while also improving public perception of the Police force - no longer viewed as "bribe beggars"). Widespread adoption nationwide quickly ensued, with good rates of public approval.
Positive results led to the amendment of traffic laws, so that now in Brazil, you cannot get a speeding ticket issued by an officer - photo proof, with an equipment audited by our country's Weights and Measurements Bureau - is required.
What's the point in allocating police officers to perform something as simple (and automatable) as a speeding ticket?
Here in Brazil, up until the 90s, police officers were the only ones responsible for speed limit enforcement. With wages low, speed limit enforcement was a quick way for crooked officers to make a buck: police picked any car, stated it was speeding, and asked for a "minor, direct cash contribution" (aka bribe) for the driver, to make the ticket go away. Handouts were so common accountants bragged about having ways to fill them as travel costs. Needless to say, speeding was endemic.
In order to reduce the amount of police officers allocated in speed enforcement duty (thus allowing them to chase more serious offences), pilots of speed camera enforcement were conducted, with very positive results (reducing accidents caused by speeding while also improving public perception of the Police force - no longer viewed as "bribe beggars"). Widespread adoption nationwide quickly ensued, with good rates of public approval.
Positive results led to the amendment of traffic laws, so that now in Brazil, you cannot get a speeding ticket issued by an officer - photo proof, with an equipment audited by our country's Weights and Measurements Bureau - is required.
9
Kudos to The NYTimes and the Reporters for the great work on this article.
The jewels of information given here are more valuable than any gold. What the nation does not realize, as it stays in its constant state of denial, is that this covert racism robs the nation of any possibility of unity and cooperation. The US is and has created lifetimes of distrust and animosity among its citizens. No black man feels really safe in your boundaries though some will lie to you to appease you. Millionaires and high elected black officials all suffer from some inner fears of wrongful actions by someone in blue directed at them for no other reason than the color of their skin.
The one really troubling things that this article could not touch is the true reasons for such disparities that the stats point out, with all things human, there are the true motivations/real reasons why so many officers have committed all these sad statistics. This is really a chicken and egg situation, blacks are doing lots of crime because they are being pushed into it. Give black kids a good and consistent image of good cops and then they will become friends and not the enemy in the black communities and homes. So much bad has been done to my generation that we will never trust police, indeed, our paranoia has kept us alive.
The article focused on known trouble spots, I submit that this could be most any area of the US with a few exceptional bigger cities. THIS PERSISTS BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE ARE IN DENIAL!
The jewels of information given here are more valuable than any gold. What the nation does not realize, as it stays in its constant state of denial, is that this covert racism robs the nation of any possibility of unity and cooperation. The US is and has created lifetimes of distrust and animosity among its citizens. No black man feels really safe in your boundaries though some will lie to you to appease you. Millionaires and high elected black officials all suffer from some inner fears of wrongful actions by someone in blue directed at them for no other reason than the color of their skin.
The one really troubling things that this article could not touch is the true reasons for such disparities that the stats point out, with all things human, there are the true motivations/real reasons why so many officers have committed all these sad statistics. This is really a chicken and egg situation, blacks are doing lots of crime because they are being pushed into it. Give black kids a good and consistent image of good cops and then they will become friends and not the enemy in the black communities and homes. So much bad has been done to my generation that we will never trust police, indeed, our paranoia has kept us alive.
The article focused on known trouble spots, I submit that this could be most any area of the US with a few exceptional bigger cities. THIS PERSISTS BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE ARE IN DENIAL!
4
In my community we are remembering the anniversary of the senseless killing of DJ Henry -- a young college student. He had the misfortune to be leaving a bar that was raided by police. A police officer stepped in front of his moving car, ended up on the hood and shot (executed really) the young man. Even some of the cop's fellow officers were astounded by his behavior. The only cure for the adrenaline fueled aggression that characterizes such policing is to end impunity. Body cameras are only 10% of the answer. We need independent, community-based civilian review boards and prosecutors who will indict when a crime is committed by a cop.
9
I found this article quite disturbing. You can see the incredible sense of entitlement that many, many police officers have. Just yesterday, the FBI director said "he had a gut feeling" that the reason violent crime has risen of late is due to the scrutiny law enforcement is experiencing as a result of highly publicized incidents of serious police misconduct. The implication being that police officers willingly sit on their hands because the public wants to see direct and total accountability from those who have a license to kill in the name of law enforcement. The NERVE of those pesky taxpayers!
6
Expired plates often result from failed emissions tests -- almost 15% of vehicles fail. So many arrests of poor blacks are ultimately attributable to environmentalists. Being black among clean air advocates is dangerous. Statistics prove that climate change advocates favor policies that disproportionately result in the arrests of blacks. Environmentalists clearly need racial sensitivity training. Statistics don't lie.
5
Sarcasm on this real issue: don't look now -- your myopia is showing.
The problem is not the stop or the reason for the stop. Traffic laws should be enforced as a matter of public safety. The problems arise with all that follows the stop. All police behavior that has been condoned and endorsed by the courts. The lynching tree renews its blooms.
Not too long ago an officer was pretty much limited in any "investigation" to the basis of the stop. If you ran a stop sign, the officer could ask you why you ran the sign. If he smelled alcohol, he could further investigate that. Further investigation and questioning on any unrelated or speculative criminal activity could only follow if based on some further evidence of wrongdoing.
Not any more. The courts have all but gutted this fundamental understanding of the constitution, allowing questioning and investigations that go well beyond any traffic offense without any basis for doing so.These new found police powers provide the legal predicate for "broken windows" or aggressive policing that, unfortunately, are used, or abused, in communities of color. By turning a blind eye to what was once an unquestioned protection of the constitution the courts and the police brought this crisis of trust in our communities and on themselves. Now many young men of color live with the sincere belief that justice may only be found on the streets. Now these strategies or tactics alienate these communities, leaving us to walk in the shadow of the lynching tree.
Not too long ago an officer was pretty much limited in any "investigation" to the basis of the stop. If you ran a stop sign, the officer could ask you why you ran the sign. If he smelled alcohol, he could further investigate that. Further investigation and questioning on any unrelated or speculative criminal activity could only follow if based on some further evidence of wrongdoing.
Not any more. The courts have all but gutted this fundamental understanding of the constitution, allowing questioning and investigations that go well beyond any traffic offense without any basis for doing so.These new found police powers provide the legal predicate for "broken windows" or aggressive policing that, unfortunately, are used, or abused, in communities of color. By turning a blind eye to what was once an unquestioned protection of the constitution the courts and the police brought this crisis of trust in our communities and on themselves. Now many young men of color live with the sincere belief that justice may only be found on the streets. Now these strategies or tactics alienate these communities, leaving us to walk in the shadow of the lynching tree.
5
It is not just driving while black issue, it is more of a driving while not white issue. I was stopped by NJ State trooper on an interstate highway. I was not breaking any traffic laws. After driving on my side for a while I was pulled over, I was very politely asked for the License, Insurance and Registration which I provided to the officer. I asked the officer why I was stopped, I was told that my license plates were dirty.
I was let go after he checked the documents etc. Upon reaching my destination, I went back to notice the dirty plates, guess what they were "sparkling clean" "spotless" both the front as well as rear ones.
I did take pictures with my cell phone, and I am not white.
Most of our law enforcement individuals are former Veterans who are still not detrained from their active status of being a warrior in a foreign land. These individuals are trained to look for enemy, who is mostly looks different than them. I am not going to blame the law enforcement officers, most do good job in difficult situation, but their lack of preparedness is because they are not trained appropriately.
Emphasis must be placed on appropriate training of all law enforcement officers along with appropriate level of punishment for the negligent ones.
I was let go after he checked the documents etc. Upon reaching my destination, I went back to notice the dirty plates, guess what they were "sparkling clean" "spotless" both the front as well as rear ones.
I did take pictures with my cell phone, and I am not white.
Most of our law enforcement individuals are former Veterans who are still not detrained from their active status of being a warrior in a foreign land. These individuals are trained to look for enemy, who is mostly looks different than them. I am not going to blame the law enforcement officers, most do good job in difficult situation, but their lack of preparedness is because they are not trained appropriately.
Emphasis must be placed on appropriate training of all law enforcement officers along with appropriate level of punishment for the negligent ones.
5
I do not believe that "Most of our law enforcement individuals are former Veterans", Wizarat. Can you cite any reliable source or any statistics for this allegation?
I didn't find any reliable studies, but I did find this logical comment on a Yahoo answers site:
" Think about it:
16.1 million Americans served in WWII;
5,720,000 US Troops served in the Korean conflict,
2,709,918 Americans served in Vietnam;
and only 550,000 US Troops served in Operation Iraqi Freedom and the Afghan Campaign (to date).
So, statistically, there just are not as many combat veterans at an age to be employed as police officers as there were in generations past. I only know a handful of police officers who are combat veterans. "
Read the whole answer, which is labeled "Best Answer". It makes a lot of sense.
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130730163536AAlq8qx
I didn't find any reliable studies, but I did find this logical comment on a Yahoo answers site:
" Think about it:
16.1 million Americans served in WWII;
5,720,000 US Troops served in the Korean conflict,
2,709,918 Americans served in Vietnam;
and only 550,000 US Troops served in Operation Iraqi Freedom and the Afghan Campaign (to date).
So, statistically, there just are not as many combat veterans at an age to be employed as police officers as there were in generations past. I only know a handful of police officers who are combat veterans. "
Read the whole answer, which is labeled "Best Answer". It makes a lot of sense.
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130730163536AAlq8qx
@vklip What I am referring to is not just sheer numbers but the mindset. It is not the numbers that makes the police/LEf lethal, it is the mindset that is introduced with the former combat veterans who are not detrained to work in a civilian environment. By no means I am pointing fingers at our very well trained Combat veterans, but I am pointing to our lack of facility to work with the returning servicemen and women. They need our help to settle back in the civil society.
One of the reason more studies with veteran focus are not conducted would be the fact that it would point towards dedicating more resources for social services for the veterans and that is not what the Republicans are willing to listen.
One more point to ponder is the fact about very few problems with the brass returning from combat as compared to the soldiers.
One of the reason more studies with veteran focus are not conducted would be the fact that it would point towards dedicating more resources for social services for the veterans and that is not what the Republicans are willing to listen.
One more point to ponder is the fact about very few problems with the brass returning from combat as compared to the soldiers.
1
Welcome to life in a dark States of America. The story repeats in every state.
Highly recommend adding a camera to your car and start recording from the moment the stop is initiated.
Highly recommend adding a camera to your car and start recording from the moment the stop is initiated.
I'd like to see similar data comparing sex and age differences in stops. Does anyone doubt that the numbers would skew against young men?
And, of course, the reason would be the same as for the black/white differences in stops. The police [rightly] understand that young men are more likely to be involved in criminal activity than, say, old women.
You may not like it. You can enact all the laws you want against it. But police are going to use common sense and tend to target members of groups that engage in a disproportionate share of street crime
And, of course, the reason would be the same as for the black/white differences in stops. The police [rightly] understand that young men are more likely to be involved in criminal activity than, say, old women.
You may not like it. You can enact all the laws you want against it. But police are going to use common sense and tend to target members of groups that engage in a disproportionate share of street crime
4
And yet in each jurisdiction in which police departments have required officers to wear body cameras, the number of complaints about racially motivated stops and abusive police behavior has dropped significantly. Apparently common sense also tells abusive cops that they are a lot less likely to get away with being abusive if their actions are being recorded.
A significant percentage of these more egregious actions by police might be avoided if communities are no longer allowed to build in to their police budget revenue expected to be " earned" by writing tickets and hauling people in traffic courts. I still remember that in upstate NY when traveling on RT 17, the speed will suddenly go from 55 to 15 in one of these small towns that rely on revenues from passing motorists. In Cincinnati, certain localities are known for "speed traps" intended to generate much needed revenue.
4
It seems to me that the police that I remember having any interaction with when I was just a young man was always positive and the officers seemed to be relatively intelligent ... now as a 59 year oild white man I can honestly say that not only have my interactions with the police not been positive ( I had to speak to one recently about filling out paper work to proceed against a bad check writer) but the officer was not even close to being the sharpest tool in the shed.. however he was built as though he had been working out and was the size of a refrigerator.... could the education/intelligence of those that are employed as police officers have gone down as dramatically as it seems or is it just my imagination?
5
I have been stopped over the years for a myriad of traffic violations- stop sign violations, expired inspection stickers, violating pedestrian crossing.... never a ticket, never a search. Oh, I am over 55 white.
1
Again,
Articles such as this are the root cause of FBI director Comey's despair. When distributed in a cultural solution: literacy 1 part per 10,000, it is as combustible as a coffee can full of oily rags next to a water heater. All this nudging reminds me of a guy in my old neighborhood who fixed broken carburetors with a lit cigarette in his mouth.
Articles such as this are the root cause of FBI director Comey's despair. When distributed in a cultural solution: literacy 1 part per 10,000, it is as combustible as a coffee can full of oily rags next to a water heater. All this nudging reminds me of a guy in my old neighborhood who fixed broken carburetors with a lit cigarette in his mouth.
2
Ah, yes -- the old let's not talk about it approach. Because acting like it doesn't exist always makes it better...
1
What a brilliant piece! So my question is: why don't police officers get surveyed judt like most professionals these days. I think such evaluation by citizens who encounter officers is not a bad idea.
Stopping cars randomly in high crime areas would be like stopping and frisking on Wall Street looking for cocaine. Its just obviously intrusive to the vast majority of law abiding people and bound to create a general climate of resentment.
This is especially true given the absolute power of the police that does not allow for any dignity for the person stopped. If, the police push you like they did the Walmart guy and you defend your dignity by saying anything or defend yourself and push back you are charged with 'assault on an officer' or 'resisting arrest' and manhandled causing injury. The officers word is always believed and officers and prosecutors have absolute power. And absolute power always leads to abuse of power, which is what video is showing.
Police departments everywhere are going to have to retrain everything now that video cameras are showing everyone that police practices are not treating the public with respect. At a minimum, the police are going to have to start giving repeated warnings that people need to follow orders or be arrested for interfering with a police order.
This is especially true given the absolute power of the police that does not allow for any dignity for the person stopped. If, the police push you like they did the Walmart guy and you defend your dignity by saying anything or defend yourself and push back you are charged with 'assault on an officer' or 'resisting arrest' and manhandled causing injury. The officers word is always believed and officers and prosecutors have absolute power. And absolute power always leads to abuse of power, which is what video is showing.
Police departments everywhere are going to have to retrain everything now that video cameras are showing everyone that police practices are not treating the public with respect. At a minimum, the police are going to have to start giving repeated warnings that people need to follow orders or be arrested for interfering with a police order.
Several reactions
1) I am white, but it is intimidating to be pulled over as I was almost 3 years ago for "disregarding a stop sign" (I stopped, but not fully enough for the officers). I was rattled; I was not asked to get out, but I kept my mouth shut, did what I was told. Maybe history (theirs and the community's) makes some drivers talk back and refuse to obey, but that is unwise at best, raises fear in the cop, and tends to escalate the situation.
2) THAT said, I do think many cops have an arrogant swagger just waiting for someone to cross them, then taking out-sized offense quite readily when the one stopped doesn't just hop to, salute, tremble, and obey. I sometimes watch "Cops" and is amazed at how fast some verbal resistance turns to a violent "get on the ground" situation and, often, arrest.
3) As I read comments suggesting that cops should ignore 'minor' traffic infractions, I am concerned. There are good reasons for rules like signaling when changing lanes. As a driver, I certainly violate some of those 'minor' traffic rules sometimes, but that does not mean that we should scrap them. More than one side-swiping or rear-ending would have been avoided if drivers signaled their intentions as the law requires.
1) I am white, but it is intimidating to be pulled over as I was almost 3 years ago for "disregarding a stop sign" (I stopped, but not fully enough for the officers). I was rattled; I was not asked to get out, but I kept my mouth shut, did what I was told. Maybe history (theirs and the community's) makes some drivers talk back and refuse to obey, but that is unwise at best, raises fear in the cop, and tends to escalate the situation.
2) THAT said, I do think many cops have an arrogant swagger just waiting for someone to cross them, then taking out-sized offense quite readily when the one stopped doesn't just hop to, salute, tremble, and obey. I sometimes watch "Cops" and is amazed at how fast some verbal resistance turns to a violent "get on the ground" situation and, often, arrest.
3) As I read comments suggesting that cops should ignore 'minor' traffic infractions, I am concerned. There are good reasons for rules like signaling when changing lanes. As a driver, I certainly violate some of those 'minor' traffic rules sometimes, but that does not mean that we should scrap them. More than one side-swiping or rear-ending would have been avoided if drivers signaled their intentions as the law requires.
11
In all of the comments I've read so far, no one has mentioned that the officer who used the taser was also African-American. This is something that I find quite interesting, given that Greensboro had, several years ago, had a recruiting initiative to ensure that the racial makeup of its police force mirrored that of the community as a whole. Another aspect of these incidents has been that the officers apparently overreacting to suspects' behavior have reportedly all been male. My own opinion, from acquaintance with those in positions of public authority (albeit not any police officers) is that such people do tend to become a bit jaded over time through experiences with just a few people whose bad behavior does not represent that of the average person, but who nevertheless occupy most of that person's time on the job. Clearly, initial and ongoing psychological screening and additional training is needed to ensure that those whose attitudes and behavior have skewed toward the unacceptable are identified, counseled, and, if appropriate, removed from the police force.
10
We are human first,but in this imperfect system we live in people only see color. Law enforcement,you may have maybe a handful that choose to do things correctly then you have the other that follow there own rules. Jesus was a perfect man who had gotten persecuted for believing in what was right & was crucified.
This will never end as long as ignorant humans who choose to hold hatred in there heart. This will be an on going thing as long as you choose to stay ignorant & think that you fight violence with violence. Anger breeds anger,misery loves company. So do want to be a part of a solution or live in the problem? This is not just a problem in the South, it's this World in which we live in. Open yourself to everything as a whole not in the small circle in which you live. Knowledge is power not this insanity of a race war within a small minded area. So ask yourself when will it end? It starts with you as an individual.
This will never end as long as ignorant humans who choose to hold hatred in there heart. This will be an on going thing as long as you choose to stay ignorant & think that you fight violence with violence. Anger breeds anger,misery loves company. So do want to be a part of a solution or live in the problem? This is not just a problem in the South, it's this World in which we live in. Open yourself to everything as a whole not in the small circle in which you live. Knowledge is power not this insanity of a race war within a small minded area. So ask yourself when will it end? It starts with you as an individual.
Are middle-aged white businessmen profiled, and their companies' financial records, AND those of their auditors, 'pro-actively' singled-out and investigated by authorities even when there is no reason for suspicion, since the unfortunate reality is that middle-aged white businessmen live in the high-crime neighborhoods of investment banks and mortgage lenders? Are they treated the same way, and harassed as often as young black males by authorities, in order to weed out the criminal element in corporate America?
21
Come to Western Oregon; Eugene ir Portland will do. Take two cars. Put a couple of Christian bumper stickers on one, with a white male driver. Make the car five years old or do. The other car will be a brand new Mercedes, or some other high priced car. Make that driver a black male, baseball cap on backwards, in a gang t-shirt. Guess who is stopped, harassed, held for an hour or do in the rain, not permitted to even go to their car for a coat? In Portland , and especially in Eugene, it will be the Christian.
8
Can you provide some proof of your claim?
3
If all Black people were issued brand new Cadillacs, paid car insurance and expensive clothes to wear while they were driving, they would still be stopped disproportionally by the cops. There is a high degree of association in this country between blacks and crime and drugs and, until this changes, nothing much is going to be accomplished on the driving front.
13
That association is not a false one. It does exist and ignoring it while discussing this issue does no one any good.
Ok. Well and good.
This is all true.
But what about The Disproportionate Risks of Walking in certain areas While White?
This is all true.
But what about The Disproportionate Risks of Walking in certain areas While White?
23
I would like to see even one article or study substantiating this widely believed, but entirely unsubstantiated racial fear. Just one. There not one high crime area where walking while white is disproportionately dangerous than walking while any other race.
And name those areas please. I keep my eyes and ears open no matter what neighborhood I'm in. I don't feel any less comfortable in a predominantly (or all) black neighborhood than a predominantly white neighborhood. People have lives and things to do. They really are not too concerned about some random white person walking down a sidewalk. In contrast, the same cannot be said for the comfort of a black person who has the temerity to walk into certain white neighborhoods, some of which are heavily populated by police and firefighters.
It seems that it wasn't driving while black. From the article it was driving with "expired plates and failing to hang a flag from a load of scrap metal in the pickup’s bed." Those two offenses will get you stopped anywhere and for good reason. People have been killed driving up to a truck which had stopped at a traffic light with an unmarked metal pipe crashing through their front windshield. Some laws have a real purpose and stopping offenders is essential for an orderly society.
How they were treated after the stop is another subject. The police actions then may have been unwarranted or perhaps could have had extenuating circumstances, but the driving while black headline doesn't apply in this situation.
How they were treated after the stop is another subject. The police actions then may have been unwarranted or perhaps could have had extenuating circumstances, but the driving while black headline doesn't apply in this situation.
31
So you simply totally ignored the statistics in the article, or the other stories in the article just so you could be dismissive of the entire article?
1
As I see it police and people in government are "servants " of people , not masters . Our taxes pay for their jobs. There job is to serve with compassion , and not be bullies . It is a shame that normal law abiding citizens are treated like criminals at every stop . The "servants are turning the tables on the "served " quite a shame . Thanks to NYT to bring it up . I don't read such articles in other news media . But for NYT , the poor man is doomed now , next time it will be the turn of the guy who doesn't speak up for the down-trodden . We need continuing dialogue - gone on too long .
3
Most traffic stops are made where the officer is driving behind the offender. How can you tell the ethnicity of a driver when you are behind them? I've tried to see if I could do it and could not. You certainly cannot do it night. Try it. And if it is true you cannot identify someone's ethnicity while driving behind them, then this is all NYT fiction.
14
And do you remember the suit against NJ State troopers, accusing them of racial profiling? Do you know why the suit was dropped? Because an independent study correlating race of drivers with frequency of speeding (using digital photography) established that black drivers were significantly more likely to speed. In fact, the frequency was so much higher than white drivers that the profiling statistics now showed that black drivers were being stopped proportionally LESS than white drivers relative to the prevalence of their speeding infractions.
Almost UNIVERSALLY, the police cruiser is passed by the driver, and then the stop is initiated. Just because you don't like the truth, does not make it untrue.
4
Did you look at the statistics - from police reports - and the chart, Bill? Those statistics, the studies that reported them, and the chart based on hard statistics, are not fiction.
1
We go about our daily lives taking for granted the seamless ways we do the things we do -- commuting to work, driving to the nearby grocery stores, going downtown to see friends. Amidst our life of ease there is another America occupying the very same space, breathing the very same air, other Americans -- black Americans -- don't enjoy the same freedoms as us. Either we say nothing, continue looking the other way and therefore encourage this, or we don't.
9
My sister (white, as am I) is a criminal court judge in a major east coast city. Recently she presided over a case in which a white police officer carried out a "routine" traffic stop on a black driver and found drugs in the car.
Perhaps the police officer thought that my sister, who has an Ivy-League education, doesn't know the city well. However, he was wrong. My sister knew that the supposedly illegal left turn made by the driver (the basis for the traffic stop) was perfectly legal. She threw the case out. It seems the policeman was looking for an excuse to nail a black driver.
Perhaps the police officer thought that my sister, who has an Ivy-League education, doesn't know the city well. However, he was wrong. My sister knew that the supposedly illegal left turn made by the driver (the basis for the traffic stop) was perfectly legal. She threw the case out. It seems the policeman was looking for an excuse to nail a black driver.
14
Cute: "and found drugs in the car"
So the guys had expired plates, they deserved to be pulled over. Period.
13
Pulled over and issued a ticket. Not pulled over tased thrown to the ground and ticketed. Funny how all the charges are dismissed when scrutinized. Driving while black is only an excuse to use excessive force.
2
The case of Mr. James Field, 52, and Marie Robinson, 60, is incredible. While sitting in front of his own home, Mr. Field's friend, Ms. Robinson, 60, is accused of being a prostitute? And WHY would Wal-Mart suspend him from his job while charges were pending??? Aren't we innocent until proven guilty? Can we hear from Wal-Mart?
25
Ellen Freilich even more egregious is that they both had to write a letter of apology to the officers.
The director of the FBI apparently assumes, based on no evidence, that heightened scrutiny of police is responsible for a rise in violent crime. In that sort of environment, how much change is realistically possible?
17
The common refrain in these incidents is that the police involved no longer go by the mantra of serve and protect. The police are public servants and should be publicly accountable, but in many cases they are not. These are people given wide ranging powers and a gang of cohorts that will back them up in everything they choose to do. Even if a police officer disagrees with what another one does they still go along, because to cross that line where you side with the civilian over a police invites frightening retribution from the police community. There is no one that is safe from this sort of harassment inside or outside the police.
Until police are made accountable for their actions, via publicly available recording of all their on duty activity and evaluation by authorities independent and protected from police and political retribution there will continue to be this abuse of power.
Until police are made accountable for their actions, via publicly available recording of all their on duty activity and evaluation by authorities independent and protected from police and political retribution there will continue to be this abuse of power.
14
This post is right on. Unfortunately with total infiltration of police forces by some of the most racist people in the nation, an all out war against rogue police will need to come from inside and outside of these forces simultaneously. I am unsure if this will happen in our lifetimes.
4
The common refrain of these instances is ALWAYS illegal behavior . . . ALWAYS.
It is like an epidemic of dead or injured Black Americans being found on sidewalks. In every case the person jumped out a window. But this is treated as just a minor detail or ignored entirely as we search out the reasons behind the epidemic.
It is like an epidemic of dead or injured Black Americans being found on sidewalks. In every case the person jumped out a window. But this is treated as just a minor detail or ignored entirely as we search out the reasons behind the epidemic.
The problem isn't black or white. It's much simpler then that... Officers need more training and to train more frequently. Training in communication, self defense, training in checking their egos, and department policies and procedures. Train officers in humility, compassion, and understanding. Should cops pull drivers over for flashing their bright lights? Failing to use a turn signal? Break light out? Absolutely not. Community policing and building relationships supersedes all other department goals and objectives.
6
Jay forget about traffic stops for a moment. What do you say about the two brothers who were stopped for walking in the street and charged with obstructing traffic on a desolate street? And there is no sidewalk on that street. A simple encounter led to an arrest recorded on cell phone video posted on Facebook.
1
You cannot "train" away deep-seated racial bias. Officers can go to trainings and be smart enough to say all the right things in order to keep their jobs/be perceived as fit for duty, but what's really in officers' hearts remains -- and is revealed when they are interacting with civilians.
2
There is a book, called "A Speeders Guide to Avoiding Tickets" (paperback, mid 1980s) which contains a wealth of information every human being that drives on any road in this nation should discover and follow. It was written by a pnetime NY state trooper. Please find it, demand the publisher reprint it, read it. Knowledge is the best tool, the best defense against the ignorance nd rcism so pervasive in law enforcement. Why aren't new hires being better screened?
4
So what are some people saying here? If a cop stops a black person, the cop is then not allowed to stop another black person until the cop has stopped a white person? Even trying to identify the race a a person, say speeding, puts everyone in danger because the cop would not be able to stop the car until the cop gets along side the speeding car and clearly identifies the race of the driver? What if the next person is a very dark Indian? Does that person count as black or white? What if the driver is black and all the passengers are white or the other way around? That's easy on the White side of town, the cop can stop as many white people as they want. Maybe thast is the solution, for every black person stop all the cops have to find a white person to stop before any of them can stop a black person.
5
"So what are some people saying here? If a cop stops a black person, the cop is then not allowed to stop another black person until the cop has stopped a white person? "
Yes, that apparently is required. And police forces are accommodating the voice of the people.
Yes, that apparently is required. And police forces are accommodating the voice of the people.
"So what are some people saying here? If a cop stops a black person, the cop is then not allowed to stop another black person until the cop has stopped a white person? "
No, that's not what anyone is saying. Did you read the article? It's fine if black people are legitimately pulled over for wrong doing. It's not fine if police are looking for reasons to pull over black people, which is what the statistics imply, along with the numerous examples that go along with it.
It's also not fine if the treatment black people receive AFTER they've been pulled over is worse and far from professional than when White people are pulled over.
Equal treatment under the law is what people are saying here. You should read the article.
No, that's not what anyone is saying. Did you read the article? It's fine if black people are legitimately pulled over for wrong doing. It's not fine if police are looking for reasons to pull over black people, which is what the statistics imply, along with the numerous examples that go along with it.
It's also not fine if the treatment black people receive AFTER they've been pulled over is worse and far from professional than when White people are pulled over.
Equal treatment under the law is what people are saying here. You should read the article.
1
That`s not what anyone is saying, it' simply your own prejudiced interpretation.
2
Obviously police are human beings too and there will be some bad ones. But studies like this are fraught with difficulty.
There is no way to compare different traffic stops. You will more blacks concentrated in high-crime areas. Searching in high crime areas might be more worthwhile, and as such you will end up searching more black drivers. This does not mean you are targeting blacks, it means you are targeting high-crime areas.
Different officers tend to patrol different areas. It could be related to the psyches of officers assigned to high-crime areas which makes them react differently than those assigned to other areas.
The only way you can know for sure is to look at stop patterns for the same officers, same areas, same offences, same behavior of the motorist. In other words you have to control for all the variables. If you don't do that, you are probably just getting selection bias.
There is no way to compare different traffic stops. You will more blacks concentrated in high-crime areas. Searching in high crime areas might be more worthwhile, and as such you will end up searching more black drivers. This does not mean you are targeting blacks, it means you are targeting high-crime areas.
Different officers tend to patrol different areas. It could be related to the psyches of officers assigned to high-crime areas which makes them react differently than those assigned to other areas.
The only way you can know for sure is to look at stop patterns for the same officers, same areas, same offences, same behavior of the motorist. In other words you have to control for all the variables. If you don't do that, you are probably just getting selection bias.
2
High Crime Areas, um is a bit tawdry since suburban homes have more illegal drug usage, more unreported domestic violence, child molestation, mass-population murderers (domestic terrorists) and dark crimes never brought to light.
So what is high crime? You mean where the little dude living in the projects is selling cheap bags of marijuana to buy some sneakers. The "high crime" statement is "old, misused and just an answer to bully the poor." Most of the people committing high crime get away with their crimes unpunished.
So what is high crime? You mean where the little dude living in the projects is selling cheap bags of marijuana to buy some sneakers. The "high crime" statement is "old, misused and just an answer to bully the poor." Most of the people committing high crime get away with their crimes unpunished.
14
Georgist: And just why are law abiding blacks citizens clamoring to escape those "urban high crime areas" to live in suburban white areas if the latter are just as high in crime?
This one of the many Cultural Marxism agenda, Divide and Conquer. I'm a minority and has been stopped on a few occasion. But I have respect for law enforcement so I know not to disobey a command given by an officer of the law. If I get confrontational and act as if the law do not apply to me then I will get a different reaction, NO?
4
There can be little doubt that blacks are stopped more frequently than whites while driving their vehicles. In the Greensboro incident one can wonder why the two blacks were driving with two significant violations of the automotive code. The article jumps over this fact and makes a case for police mistreatment of the two, even though they appear to be having some trouble complying with the officer's request to exit the vehicle.
Mistreatment and overreaction by police is a serious problem and needs to be eliminated by education and penalties where it occurs. But the police job is to enforce the laws and the responsibilities of the drivers is to obey the laws and cooperate with police. So rushing to judgment that police are always in all instances violating their regulations without recognizing that in most instances the drivers are unquestionably violating the vehicle code is to falsely to blame police and give a free ride to violating drivers. Excessive police action in enforcing the laws should neither be allowed or excused and should be eliminated. At the same time, careless observance of the vehicle code by black or white drivers should also not be permitted.
Mistreatment and overreaction by police is a serious problem and needs to be eliminated by education and penalties where it occurs. But the police job is to enforce the laws and the responsibilities of the drivers is to obey the laws and cooperate with police. So rushing to judgment that police are always in all instances violating their regulations without recognizing that in most instances the drivers are unquestionably violating the vehicle code is to falsely to blame police and give a free ride to violating drivers. Excessive police action in enforcing the laws should neither be allowed or excused and should be eliminated. At the same time, careless observance of the vehicle code by black or white drivers should also not be permitted.
7
Did you read the rest of the article?
This is far more complex than police simply hassling African Americans just to abuse their power- in most instances probably. If you don't agree, ask yourself: Why don't Asian or Hispanic minorities have this problem? Different cultures and different relationships between the cultures.
3
Hispanics have a major problem with police racism. Try talking to a Latino teenager in California or Texas and you will realize how poorly they are treated by cops.
8
asians have problem, they pay it up and move on.
i have been given 4 tickets for a single speeding by a bully officer. paid through. but i saw seen worse for hispanics/black getting ruined with court punishments and fines.
while whites come to courts for severe crimes.
i have been given 4 tickets for a single speeding by a bully officer. paid through. but i saw seen worse for hispanics/black getting ruined with court punishments and fines.
while whites come to courts for severe crimes.
The problem is far greater for African Americans. What I'm saying is that, since other minorities do not have the same scale of problem, it is illogical to believe that racism is always the only reason African Americans are pulled over more than other races- though no doubt that is sometimes the case- which is inexcusable. There are cultural differences in our country- some are positive, some are negative. To willfully ignore reality and believe otherwise ultimately does harm. You can't solve a problem by ignoring one of the principal causes. The US has fought 3 bitter and brutal wars with Asian nations in the past 75 years, but somehow whites don't seem to be arresting Asian Americans disproportionately right? The reason is that the dynamic exposed by the article has a major cultural component- not just racial. By the way I'm white and have been pulled over by police 5 times, twice threatened with force and arrest when I asked why I was stopped, and had my car searched twice when driving a few miles over the limit like everyone on the road. About half of these encounters were civil and professional, and half exposed scary problems with the officer. I believe professionalism is sorely lacking in some police (especially among northeast city police), but to ignore the cultural component of the dynamic described in the article ultimately does harm. Racism is real and deadly in the US- no doubt, but it's not only about race, it's also about how our cultures interact.
2
"Greensboro's police chief, Wayne Scott, left, said, “The way we accomplish our job is through contact, and one of the more common tools we have is stopping cars.” "
And one of the more common CIVIL RIGHTS we Americans have is the freedom to move about without our right to do so being violated by the police!
And one of the more common CIVIL RIGHTS we Americans have is the freedom to move about without our right to do so being violated by the police!
8
Sounds like some commenters think a return to the good old days of slavery is the answer. They suggest that black men shouldn't question the officer, watch what they say, be polite and be quiet. In other words, don't be uppity, don't make eye contact, step off the sidewalk and let the white man pass, say, "Yes, sir" and "No, sir, “ and don't question the white man, because he's in control.
But, slavery is supposed to be over, and America isn't a police state. Citizens should be free to question authority without fear of death. Police officers are the only government employees that have the power of life and death in their hands. It is a huge responsibility. Police work is not for insecure people who need to prove how manly they are by winning every argument. It's not for bullies, but more and more it seems that's who goes into it.
No one should be beaten or shot over a traffic stop, regardless of attitude or style of dress. No one. There is absolutely no justification for it. So what if someone argues? So what if someone isn't polite? So what if someone calls the officer a name? Why does that make it ok to drag a man from his car and viciously beat him? If anyone else did it but a cop, they'd be in jail. But, police do it over and over, and it has to stop.
People should be free to speak their mind, even to a police officer. A man isn't a criminal just because he has a smart mouth and a bad attitude, and he doesn't deserve to die because of it.
But, slavery is supposed to be over, and America isn't a police state. Citizens should be free to question authority without fear of death. Police officers are the only government employees that have the power of life and death in their hands. It is a huge responsibility. Police work is not for insecure people who need to prove how manly they are by winning every argument. It's not for bullies, but more and more it seems that's who goes into it.
No one should be beaten or shot over a traffic stop, regardless of attitude or style of dress. No one. There is absolutely no justification for it. So what if someone argues? So what if someone isn't polite? So what if someone calls the officer a name? Why does that make it ok to drag a man from his car and viciously beat him? If anyone else did it but a cop, they'd be in jail. But, police do it over and over, and it has to stop.
People should be free to speak their mind, even to a police officer. A man isn't a criminal just because he has a smart mouth and a bad attitude, and he doesn't deserve to die because of it.
28
People should be free to speak their mind, even to a police officer. A man isn't a criminal just because he has a smart mouth and a bad attitude, and he doesn't deserve to die because of it.
How civilized do you expect a cop to act when he is treated like an animal and threatened?
How civilized do you expect a cop to act when he is treated like an animal and threatened?
4
@ MsPea When I get stopped by a cop I always say "Yes, sir", "No, sir, “ and thank you sir. I never display a "smart mouth or a bad attitude" to cops or anyone in authority, that would not get me anywhere that I want to be. I never tell the cop that the cop was wrong, I just receptively tell the copy that I was not aware of having made the violation. And I am white male over 60. Just give the cop the respect that they expect and they generally show you the same. Even letting me off with a warning, while friends of mine of the same age, race that do differently usually do not have as good an experience with cops.
2
Part of police training is to learn restraint in the face of insult. Police do not have the right to assault, or even kill another person just because the person insulted them. No one has that right.
7
I am white, but an immigrant with an accent. My interactions with police have been 50/50. That is not a good ratio.
The scariest? 6am on a lightly traveled road, doing 25mph in what was a school zone. (The sign was covered by trees and the school was so far from the road as to be hidden) Officer pulls me over, asks for my license, and then pulls his gun when I reach to get it. I realized he was terrified that I was reaching for a gun. I'm convinced if I was black the outcome would have been different. I came out alive, with a fine and with traffic school. That sign remained that way for years. Definitely a revenue generator for the city.
I have seen several examples of outright bad behavior and/or bigotry by officers in traffic events, that I'm convinced that many police are just the bullies grown up. Based on my experiences, 50% of them are. I too try to disappear when I see police. Just like the gang banger on the corner, Don't make eye contact.
The scariest? 6am on a lightly traveled road, doing 25mph in what was a school zone. (The sign was covered by trees and the school was so far from the road as to be hidden) Officer pulls me over, asks for my license, and then pulls his gun when I reach to get it. I realized he was terrified that I was reaching for a gun. I'm convinced if I was black the outcome would have been different. I came out alive, with a fine and with traffic school. That sign remained that way for years. Definitely a revenue generator for the city.
I have seen several examples of outright bad behavior and/or bigotry by officers in traffic events, that I'm convinced that many police are just the bullies grown up. Based on my experiences, 50% of them are. I too try to disappear when I see police. Just like the gang banger on the corner, Don't make eye contact.
19
"I'm convinced if I was black the outcome would have been different."
No sense in debating the topic with you.
No sense in debating the topic with you.
1
When the leading jurist in our land can say with a straight face, “The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.”
We know we're in for the long haul on this issue.
We know we're in for the long haul on this issue.
6
The “most cops are good cops” platitude is the language of whites who do not have to worry or be concerned about being framed or murdered by bullies sanctioned under the color of law.
26
I have been robbed twice. Both times by "people of color". Hence, unlike many black people, I view the police in a far different light.
6
No, its actually the language of statistical data showing that most cops are good cops.
Please grow up.
Please grow up.
1
White guy here. Twenty-five years of driving forty-five miles a day in North Carolina, and only one traffic stop. What's the problem? I don't see it. Hint: that's one of the biggest problems.
16
Not just driving. It's the disproportionate risk of being Black in a society that overlooks police actions/reactions that we would label as human rights violations/ethnic cleansing in countries whose regimes we want to bring down.
4
After Dorian Johnson's performance, I'm not very inclined to accept stories of oppression at face value.
10
Tip to any who may travel to KC for the world series: Don't drive while black in Johnson County, Kansas (basically, the Kansas side of Kansas City). Pop over the state line and stick to KCMO to the extent possible.
2
I grew up on the Upper West Side of Manhattan and now live in NC.
Yes, there are disparities in the ways the whites and blacks are treated by the police, but it's clear from the charts in the article that racial disparities in pull-overs and searches are worse in Chicago and Connecticut than in North Carolina. North Carolinian cities on those charts actually look quite a bit better than average. In that case why does the Times need to spend so many column inches discussing the civil rights movement in Greensboro and the legacy of the Jim Crow south? There is a reflexive tendency of the national media to frame this issue as largely a "Southern problem" when it's not.
All states need to fight institutional racism, but I'm glad that my adopted state has at least made an effort to get good data on these matters, so that it can clearly confront the problem.
Yes, there are disparities in the ways the whites and blacks are treated by the police, but it's clear from the charts in the article that racial disparities in pull-overs and searches are worse in Chicago and Connecticut than in North Carolina. North Carolinian cities on those charts actually look quite a bit better than average. In that case why does the Times need to spend so many column inches discussing the civil rights movement in Greensboro and the legacy of the Jim Crow south? There is a reflexive tendency of the national media to frame this issue as largely a "Southern problem" when it's not.
All states need to fight institutional racism, but I'm glad that my adopted state has at least made an effort to get good data on these matters, so that it can clearly confront the problem.
6
I agree. A few years ago, when my spouse and I had a home in the extreme Northern part of the country, our city had to pay a punitive judgement to an African-American man after the police, responding to a report of a robbery at a local gas station, reflexively tackled and handcuffed the man as he was refueling his luxury vehicle, continuing to behave in an abusive manner toward him even after the gas station manager told them that the man, a regular customer, was not the suspect.
My degree in armchair psychology tells me that most of the finger-pointing and at least some of the outrage serves to deflect others' attention from our own instincts and attitudes that, deep down, we know would not bear scrutiny.
My degree in armchair psychology tells me that most of the finger-pointing and at least some of the outrage serves to deflect others' attention from our own instincts and attitudes that, deep down, we know would not bear scrutiny.
5
I've seen this in action years ago in Long Beach, CA. I came through the PCH traffic circle and did something stupid and probably was eligible for a ticket. Two cars back is a cop and he lights up. I thought I was going to get a ticket. No, he stopped the other car with three young black men in it. As far as I could tell they didn't violate any laws.
Do not trust the police. They are not nice. They do not care about citizens and the community. They love their guns and military gear. Given the forfeiture laws and all the rest I have seen over the years, I have to conclude we live in a society without laws. Use your cameras and phones to take video every time you see them. Even if they are just walking around on patrol. Keep an eye on them at all times. They are armed and dangerous.
Do not trust the police. They are not nice. They do not care about citizens and the community. They love their guns and military gear. Given the forfeiture laws and all the rest I have seen over the years, I have to conclude we live in a society without laws. Use your cameras and phones to take video every time you see them. Even if they are just walking around on patrol. Keep an eye on them at all times. They are armed and dangerous.
16
Agree entirely.
We are living in a police state.
We are living in a police state.
3
"No, he stopped the other car with three young black men in it. As far as I could tell they didn't violate any laws."
Did you run the plates on the other vehicle?
Did you run the plates on the other vehicle?
2
All citizens should request a "ride along" with their local police department. You will see a world that cops have to face personally, not from some biased news channel.
15
Police officers should demonstrate professionalism at all times. There should be no tolerance for unbecoming conduct. None. Other professionals have to deal with horrible behavior without beating up or killing people. Nurses who many times face aggressive, combative and violent patients without badges or guns are a good example of exemplary professional conduct. And they single out and get rid of their bad apples really fast.
6
This is a companion to the Times op-ed/reportage piece blasting the head of the FBI for daring to suggest that the increasing hostility towards the police may be be deterring aggressive police work and driving up crime. Both articles suffer from similar flaws. For example the lead to this DWB article is, in traditional journalistic fashion, designed to catch the readers' attention. Two peaceful youths minding their own business are targeted and brutalized by racist cops. But on a second read inconsistencies emerge. The young protagonists were, they admit, breaking at least two laws, which were not trivial (driving an unregistered vehicle with an unmarked load of junk protruding from the back). As to what happened that led to tasering one of them, that seems disputed, and the reporters do not seriously bother to see if there was another side to the story. And one of the two racist cops was black. It starts to not add up. The thrust of the story, as in the FBI story, is that the police should not enforce minor criminal statutes, but should still keep crime in check. That thesis begs questions. What is a minor crime? Is it a minor crime if someone is relieving himself on your front stoop, but a major crime when that is done on my front stoop? And what happens if the failure to enforce minor crimes spirals into a crime wave? To be of truly illuminating benefit to the readership, this hybrid op-ed "reporting" needs to be better thought through than this work is.
8
Fact number 1) the statistics can prove any hypothesis that the author on any side of the issue wants to prove.
Fact number 2) If cops are not stopping people, what are they doing, watching?
Fact number 3) If cops stop people in an ethnically segregated area the people stopped are likely to be of that ethnically or color segregated area unless people of another ethnicity or color appear there and seem out of place.
Fact number 4) more cops are assigned in high area crime areas and if that area is ethnically segregated, it should be expected that the increase in police presents will result in more "interaction" with that ethnicity and color.
Fact number 2) If cops are not stopping people, what are they doing, watching?
Fact number 3) If cops stop people in an ethnically segregated area the people stopped are likely to be of that ethnically or color segregated area unless people of another ethnicity or color appear there and seem out of place.
Fact number 4) more cops are assigned in high area crime areas and if that area is ethnically segregated, it should be expected that the increase in police presents will result in more "interaction" with that ethnicity and color.
4
For some people, the facts are where you find them. Stataticians, of which there are 10 different levels of expertise, are hired by insurance companies to judge risk and set actuary tables. Ever bet against an insurance company? I wouldn't, and that's because stats are not merely malleable things bending to our will. They can be dustorted and frequently are, particularly by politicians and demagogues, but they are still representative facts and in the aggregate are more than useful.....they are essential!
Climate change, evolution, and flat earth science deniers make hay out of such diatribes against facts...now take a look at our national polemics and ask yourself whether such deniers of 'facts' embedded in numbers is doing us any good at all?
Stats may be open to debate, and require further inquiry in many cases...but simply denying biases is not the same thing as creating a reasoned argument...it's simply trying to win one.
.
Climate change, evolution, and flat earth science deniers make hay out of such diatribes against facts...now take a look at our national polemics and ask yourself whether such deniers of 'facts' embedded in numbers is doing us any good at all?
Stats may be open to debate, and require further inquiry in many cases...but simply denying biases is not the same thing as creating a reasoned argument...it's simply trying to win one.
.
I remember 2 traffic stops for speeding which I was doing. White, female driver. Ages 40 or so. 50 or so. White cops both times. The stop at 40 was justified, and he gave me a ticket even though I pleaded with him to not destroy my unblemished record. We both joked about it; it was friendly, and it taught me a lesson. The other time, the officer really went off on me. He was really agitated and angry, but really he was frighted because I had on a ball cap and he thought I was a guy, instead of an older female. When the adrenalin get aroused it stays in the system for a long time. I just stopped talking and let him write the ticket because he was clearly out of control emotionally. It could have gotten quite ugly had I argued back. When in a dangerous situation, it is best for YOU to have the emotional control because cops are really scared now and YOU want to SURVIVE the encounter.
Is is right? Certainly not. But it is SMART. Be as safe as you can.
Is is right? Certainly not. But it is SMART. Be as safe as you can.
5
What else is new in this country? We need to keep these stories coming, never let the stories die, everyday, we need to confront Racism at every level, in every corner of this "democratic" nation. The sins are in the streets, in the soil, in the souls of too many of our people, we need to keep turning the soil, raking it over and over again, so that the truth comes at us every single day. I have witnessed racism nearly every single day in New York City in one form or another, not by police officers, but by every day citizens, often white rich or faux rich women, young and old, on the Upper East Side of Manhattan. People of color at local stores are often treated with disdain and impatience, it is heartbreaking to witness.
5
It is still important to remember the millions of cops who we don't read about because they don't exhibit these same tactics. My brother is a cop, and, through him, I know a zillion other cops and their families, and they are just as abhorred by these reports as anyone else.
As such, please stop with the ridiculous and overt generalizing. This Sunday, I am attending a ceremony in honor of my brother, who recently risked his own life to save two young black males from an accident in which their car could have exploded.
Remember that the next time your impulse is to denigrate all cops.
As such, please stop with the ridiculous and overt generalizing. This Sunday, I am attending a ceremony in honor of my brother, who recently risked his own life to save two young black males from an accident in which their car could have exploded.
Remember that the next time your impulse is to denigrate all cops.
14
...your brother seems to be the exception - spoken as one who was told, as an 18 year old driving her first college owned car - that "you know all black people are criminals" when stopped for a light being out on the borrowed car. If I had known then what I know now I would have reported this particular state trooper - sadly, in my experience, they, and the officers that patrol in these many small towns, cities, and megapolis areas, have not gotten better with time.
5
No one doubts that many, if not most, cops do their jobs honorably, but that is not enough. A very distinct minority are prepared to speak out against the bad ones and we see how poorly they are treated by other officers when they do so. First and foremost, the police tend to see themselves as a fraternity. They expect each other to protect their own, right or wrong. In this respect, they behave more like a gang than a profession. Until that changes, it is justifiable and right to paint with a broad brush because a good cop who protects an abusive cop with lies or just with silence is not a good cop at all. He is a conspirator in the abuse.
1
Do you have statistics showing my brother to be the exception? As I said before, I know a LOT of cops through my brother, and we talk about this stuff all the time. In other words, I know enough cops by which to generalize that most are good and decent. I also know that I don't read about hundreds of cops per day who are bad cops, another point upon which a generalization can be drawn.
But your anecdotal evidence - something happened once to you and thus happens at least once to everyone else like you - is logically absurd.
Many, many, many cops risk their lives each and every day. Let's not let a mob mentality - ''Most are cops are bad because a few are bad'' - make us stupid to that fact.
But your anecdotal evidence - something happened once to you and thus happens at least once to everyone else like you - is logically absurd.
Many, many, many cops risk their lives each and every day. Let's not let a mob mentality - ''Most are cops are bad because a few are bad'' - make us stupid to that fact.
3
From my perspective, in some communities, it's a continuation of "Jim Crow".
Are there not enough applicants for "police work" with the "appropriate" psychological profile ?
We do know how to test for the profile needed.
Is the career salary or stereotype not commensurate with the profile needed ?
In my experience, police departments with more members with a J.D., as part of the team, seem to "interface" more smoothly with the community.
Are there not enough applicants for "police work" with the "appropriate" psychological profile ?
We do know how to test for the profile needed.
Is the career salary or stereotype not commensurate with the profile needed ?
In my experience, police departments with more members with a J.D., as part of the team, seem to "interface" more smoothly with the community.
5
There really should be an APP that you turn on when stopped, put your phone around your neck that records all video and audio conversation and saves it to the cloud. At the same time the app can announce to the police of your constitutional rights about recording the conversation. You will get a ticket, but less chance of getting shot.
10
There is. See the ACLU's website.
I am over sixty years old. I live in a community that is 95% white in upstate New York. Myself and many of my friends and neighbors of the same age and color are also tired of being stopped by the police for minor, minor traffic violations. We also have a feeling that traffic tickets in New York State are more about raising revenue then promoting safety. However, I have not met anyone my age or color who has been tasered; falsely arrested; or beaten by the police because of a traffic stop. I think that is where the racial profiling kicks in.
11
@Matt you "think that is where the racial profiling kicks in"? What makes you think that it has anything to do with racial profiling at that point either? because you and your over 60 white friends have been repeatedly stopped but not tasered? Maybe there are some other things on your part that didn't happen either?
1
Okay, I see the statistics cited by the NY Times. But where are the same stats for NYC?
Reading the Times article, where is NYC in "Who Is Searched, and Who Has Contraband?"
"In four states that best track stops (which, in the article cited, does not include NYC or New York State), blacks were more likely to be searched with their consent than whites, even though the police found contraband less often."
Can there be more done in NYC and NY State than is intimated by this biased article, which assumes other jurisdictions are more likely to be biased?
Reading the Times article, where is NYC in "Who Is Searched, and Who Has Contraband?"
"In four states that best track stops (which, in the article cited, does not include NYC or New York State), blacks were more likely to be searched with their consent than whites, even though the police found contraband less often."
Can there be more done in NYC and NY State than is intimated by this biased article, which assumes other jurisdictions are more likely to be biased?
1
Disgusting abuse of public trust.
1
I live in a neighborhood in Chicago that has a relatively low percentage of blacks. The police officer count was reduced by 25% due to budgetary issues, and robberies and muggings have increased dramatically.
A local blog chronicles just about every crime (http://www.cwbchicago.com/) , and even with the low percentage of blacks in the neighborhood, the police alerts have disproportionate numbers of young black males. Here is an example of a community alert: http://4abpn833c0nr1zvwp7447f2b.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploa...
Here is one person who wishes there was more police in my neighborhood. There have been instances where people have been mugged and lying injured in the middle of the street for 20-30 minutes or even hours because there is not enough police.
A local blog chronicles just about every crime (http://www.cwbchicago.com/) , and even with the low percentage of blacks in the neighborhood, the police alerts have disproportionate numbers of young black males. Here is an example of a community alert: http://4abpn833c0nr1zvwp7447f2b.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploa...
Here is one person who wishes there was more police in my neighborhood. There have been instances where people have been mugged and lying injured in the middle of the street for 20-30 minutes or even hours because there is not enough police.
11
That highlights an essential truth that is seldom mentioned in most articles about racial profiling, racial violence and even racial abuse by white police officers. There is a significant segment of the white population that supports such behavior as the price of preserving their own safety or sense of safety. If that means that some innocent blacks suffer as a result, well that's unfortunate for them. If it were not for the potency of that sentiment, ending racially biased policing would not be so difficult.
3
According to Bureau of Justice Statistics, poor people are twice as likely as the non-poor to be victims of violent crime. According to City of Greensboro statistics, the poverty rate for blacks is three times higher than that of whites. Based on these statistics, blacks are 6 times more likely than whites to be victims of violent crime. That means, the police are 6 times more likely to come to the aid of a black person whenever, they make a serious arrest. Where is that statistic?
10
None of what you have posted mitigates the fact that black motorists are disproportionally targeted by the police agencies mentioned in this article.
Just because the police may help black victims of violent crime does not give them carte blanche to abuse the rights of black motorists.
Just because the police may help black victims of violent crime does not give them carte blanche to abuse the rights of black motorists.
2
Why is that statistic at all relevant? Why the double standard that whites may complain without also having to express appreciation , but blacks must always couch any complaint with appreciation for something else when the people they're complaining about are white? Equal enforcement of law is not an act of racial nobless oblige for which black people must be thankful. Blacks can be just as outraged when they are treated badly as any entitled white person can be.
2
Excellent, well-researched piece.
Most importantly, though it presents a major problem, it also provides solutions—police who have found a way to cure, or at least, significantly reduce the racial disparity in traffic stops.
We don't need to hear, "Well, there's nothing we can do", because it is obvious there are things municipalities can do.
Most importantly, though it presents a major problem, it also provides solutions—police who have found a way to cure, or at least, significantly reduce the racial disparity in traffic stops.
We don't need to hear, "Well, there's nothing we can do", because it is obvious there are things municipalities can do.
2
Ask any white man if he would trade places with any black man in our country. Guess what the answer would be, and guess why.
16
roiled the nation occurred after drivers were pulled over for minor traffic infractions: a broken brake light, a missing front license plate and failure to signal a lane change.
---------------------
In my life I have been pulled over for these exact violations among others. I payed my fine and moved on. Why is that so difficult.
---------------------
In my life I have been pulled over for these exact violations among others. I payed my fine and moved on. Why is that so difficult.
7
In your life? How about twice a month? And how about being searched and treated with contempt each time? In my life indeed.
1
Middle aged Midwestern white professional man here... I don't like or trust the despicable cops. Leave us alone! You have become like the criminals which cause so much trouble. You are terrorists. Stay in your office. We'll call you if we want something from you.
And yes... I am prepared to accept some additional risk. I am not a coward.
And yes... I am prepared to accept some additional risk. I am not a coward.
2
Agreed. Somehow in the last half century police have become detached from our society. There is an us-vs-them culture that is unmistakable and toxic. They're are no longer a welcome sight. The only thing I doubt about this article is that the problem for blacks is not far worse than described here.
Why did the New York Times choose to venture all the way to a southern state for this story? Could it not have run exactly the same story using data from stop in New York City?
9
The article clearly mentions that NC was chosen because of the thoroughness of its record keeping.
3
The United States is the most deeply racist society in the western world, not they don't have significant competition from countries like France with its banlieue ghettos. The job of the police is to be both the public face and the brutal enforcement arm of the dominant white majority. Of course a great many police officers resist that role and strive to be color blind in their enforcement, but when you abandon massive swaths of society in urban ghettos with decrepit housing and education, few jobs and no hope, you are going to get more crime, obviously. We can blame police officers for this, or face the truth that they did not create the ghettos, white society did.
9
What's not being discussed here is the mindset and training that encourages "aggressive" policing of against one segment of society. Keep in mind that according to this statement "documenting racial profiling in police work is devilishly difficult, because a multitude of factors — including elevated violent crime rates in many black neighborhoods". "Elevated violent crimes" against whom? Where's the proof that Black people commit more violent crimes in their communities than the rate of violent crimes in White communities? Also, since Pew Research states that segregated communities in the U.S. consist of a total 7% of all cities and towns, where exactly are these numbers being extracted from that suggest one community is more violent that the next? What seems to be at play is that cultural expectations i.e., the violent Black suspect should be treated more aggressively than their White counterparts. But, another consideration is that poorer Blacks provide low hanging fruit in generating revenues for local penal systems across the country.
4
What you don't discuss, in your discussion of officers' mindset, is the demographics of those who attack and assault police.
Here in Philadelphia, we've had 11 officers murdered on-duty since 2007. (Another officer was murdered during a hold-up shortly after finishing his shift.) All of the killers except one were African-American males. What do you think a Philly cop is thinking when s/he gets out of his or her car?
Here in Philadelphia, we've had 11 officers murdered on-duty since 2007. (Another officer was murdered during a hold-up shortly after finishing his shift.) All of the killers except one were African-American males. What do you think a Philly cop is thinking when s/he gets out of his or her car?
2
This report on the heels of the new FBI report about Policing. It would be foolhardy to expect any changes or overhaul of a system, skewed and biased.
1
Another kind of discrimination: I am a white female. A few years ago I put a pro-Choice bumper sticker on my car, and in one week was stopped twice by the police. The first time, I was speeding, along with everyone else, on an Interstate. When I asked the patrolman why he had stopped me, since I wasn't going any faster than any of the other cars, he said something like, "Don't do it again," and let me go without a ticket. A few days later I was pulled over for not having stopped at a stop sign "long enough." When I denied that, I was again allowed to drive away. I'm sorry to say that after that I took the bumper sticker off. In 50 years of driving I have been stopped only one other time.
6
This is one area where technology might really make a difference. Police stops and other citizen interactions with armed authority should be recorded as a matter of course, and the recordings should be available to the citizens involved and their defenders. It would protect both sides from false accusations, reduce the opportunity for abuse, and help to restore trust in the system.
4
"...the data show police officers are more likely to pull over black drivers than white ones, given their share of the local driving-age population.
"By itself, that proves little, because other factors besides race could be in play."
Precisely.
Comparing racial proportions in the general population to racial proportions of various outcomes of encounters with police is a totally meaningless comparison.
What is needed is a much more difficult comparison:
Comparing racial proportions of specific types of unacceptable behavior to racial proportions of various outcomes of police encounters.
Unlike many media stories, this one does move right on to those types of relevant comparisons:
"Because African-Americans are, for example, generally poorer than whites, they may have more expired vehicle registrations or other automotive lapses that attract officers’ attention.
"More telling, many researchers agree, is what happens after a vehicle is pulled over — especially whether officers use their legal discretion to search a car or its occupants and whether those searches uncover illegal contraband."
Here, finally is something that is relevant and is a valid inquiry.
And, as the story goes on to discuss, this inquiry gets into analysis about police techniques, and that also is a relevant inquiry. The police are public servants. They ought not be above public inquiry.
But it is not a simple inquiry, and statistics need to be used carefully, and the resulting analysis is also not simple.
"By itself, that proves little, because other factors besides race could be in play."
Precisely.
Comparing racial proportions in the general population to racial proportions of various outcomes of encounters with police is a totally meaningless comparison.
What is needed is a much more difficult comparison:
Comparing racial proportions of specific types of unacceptable behavior to racial proportions of various outcomes of police encounters.
Unlike many media stories, this one does move right on to those types of relevant comparisons:
"Because African-Americans are, for example, generally poorer than whites, they may have more expired vehicle registrations or other automotive lapses that attract officers’ attention.
"More telling, many researchers agree, is what happens after a vehicle is pulled over — especially whether officers use their legal discretion to search a car or its occupants and whether those searches uncover illegal contraband."
Here, finally is something that is relevant and is a valid inquiry.
And, as the story goes on to discuss, this inquiry gets into analysis about police techniques, and that also is a relevant inquiry. The police are public servants. They ought not be above public inquiry.
But it is not a simple inquiry, and statistics need to be used carefully, and the resulting analysis is also not simple.
4
"Disproportionate" is a word thrown around and used too often as an indictment.
1
I would be more than happy if the Los Angeles Police Department would move significant numbers of police offices from South LA where they are unwanted and proactively policing to my middle class neighborhood to start proactively policing rather than reactive policing with long, long wait times for an officer to arrive.
2
There are always going to be "bad apples" in the force. The question is, how do we create a police culture that effectively deals with this behavior rather than one that supports it and punishes those officers who speak out?
4
If society would pay police officers commiserate with the job, we could have better qualified and well trained professional public servants and eliminate more of the crooked, malcontent warrior types that abuse power and betray public trust.
There are stats, video recordings, evidence, in fact every metric confirming discrimination by Police Officers. So why is it still a point of debate? There are known solutions too. But I guess, there is no will to address the issues head on and enforce solutions because that would reveal culpability in these injustices. Easier to maintain the status quo, I presume. So what? A few innocent lives are destroyed but who cares?
4
You establish contact with members of the community by pulling cars over for trivial traffic enforcement?
13
The statistical analysis is this article is too simple because it doesn't control for any factors.
There could very well be another variable that is the ultimate cause of the discrepancy. Or maybe not. But we need a better analysis to know or at least how much of a factor that other variable is.
For instance, should police departments take the conclusions from this article and say "of the cars we search, 13% need to be black drivers"? Or would that result in say underpolicing of high crime areas or unnecessary searches of soccer moms driving minivans in the burbs?
There could very well be another variable that is the ultimate cause of the discrepancy. Or maybe not. But we need a better analysis to know or at least how much of a factor that other variable is.
For instance, should police departments take the conclusions from this article and say "of the cars we search, 13% need to be black drivers"? Or would that result in say underpolicing of high crime areas or unnecessary searches of soccer moms driving minivans in the burbs?
4
Demographics of those who shoot or otherwise attack or threaten cops is obviously relevant, as a matter of understanding officers' perceptions of danger.
3
In the first example given, the responsibility for unwanted contact with the police fully lies with the men who were stopped. In NC, everyone gets a month's grace period for car registration renewal; in other words, the sticker on the license plate doesn't effectively expire for about a month after its date. Registration is more than a way for the state to collect money, as it is tied to vehicle safety and emissions inspections, as well as maintenance of minimum liability insurance coverage. Tying a flag to a load sticking out of a vehicle is expected, to prevent others from inadvertently running into the load and to give notice of a situation requiring caution. In other words, particularly with regard to registration, something that is obvious from quite some distance away since the sticker color changes with the month and year, those failing to renew should not be surprised at being stopped. Public transportation might have been a better option for getting to the class.
Awareness of what the police are lawfully allowed to do during a traffic stop should be communicated through driver training and included in so-called rules of the road manuals. Officers are generally allowed to stop a vehicle, order the driver to hand over his license and registration and to step out of the vehicle, but anything beyond that, without probable cause, is a request. What would have happened had Mr. Scales exited the truck as ordered, we cannot know, but his failure to do so was unlawful.
Awareness of what the police are lawfully allowed to do during a traffic stop should be communicated through driver training and included in so-called rules of the road manuals. Officers are generally allowed to stop a vehicle, order the driver to hand over his license and registration and to step out of the vehicle, but anything beyond that, without probable cause, is a request. What would have happened had Mr. Scales exited the truck as ordered, we cannot know, but his failure to do so was unlawful.
18
wilful ignorance.
"What would have happened had Mr. Scales exited the truck as ordered, we cannot know, but his failure to do so was unlawful."
Who do African-Americans think that they have a "right" to resist the police?
Who do African-Americans think that they have a "right" to resist the police?
2
CM NC " What would have happened had Mr. Scales exited the truck as ordered, we cannot know, but his failure to do so was unlawful."
Good grief! READ the article. Nowhere does it say that he was ordered to exit the car.
Good grief! READ the article. Nowhere does it say that he was ordered to exit the car.
1
And yet, the US has the gumption to lecture on Human Rights to other countries. What a joke.
14
Well, yeah. Because in many other countries, the authors of this article would by now be in jail and the NYT shutdown for a month. Keep in mind, racism is not a USA-only problem, but the USA is one place where struggle against racism can take place. This simply isn't true everywhere.
Now let's get back to the business at hand, of challenging institutional racism.
Now let's get back to the business at hand, of challenging institutional racism.
1
Despite all the disinformation intentionally presented to you by Those Who Mean So Well in school, America has not only welcomed more immigrants than other countries year after year - including 2014 - but has done more for the minority during its last century than any other nation.
Your real question is why you were so carefully fitted with that gigantic chip on your shoulder designed too make you hate the nation that is the best chance EVER for the poor worker.
Your real question is why you were so carefully fitted with that gigantic chip on your shoulder designed too make you hate the nation that is the best chance EVER for the poor worker.
2
Yeah, this is a pretty terrible place to live.
1
"An examination of traffic stops and arrests in
Greensboro, N.C., uncovered *wide* racial differences
in measure after measure of police conduct." (emphasis mine)
To the contrary, this otherwise thorough and important report shows very NARROW racial differences. The word WIDE is used many times in this article. These abuses are not WIDE, they are, in fact, very FOCUSED-- on blacks, people of color, the poor, the disadvantaged, the mentally challenged, the "different."
It would be very interesting to know how many late-model Mercedes or Tesla drivers are stopped, much less tasered.
Nor is such abuse new. Mr Fields is right to say, “Every time I see a police officer, I get a cold chill. Even if I needed one, I wouldn’t call one.”
Talk to any student active in the civil rights or anti-war era of the 60s and 70s, to anyone with long hair, head bandanas, tattoos. etc., and you will hear the same.
When mere humans put on uniforms of authority, they suddenly become self-righteous arbiters of their own prejudices and the biases of their overlords. Address this phenomenon and we may make some real progress against these everyday, on-going, and often deadly abuses.
Greensboro, N.C., uncovered *wide* racial differences
in measure after measure of police conduct." (emphasis mine)
To the contrary, this otherwise thorough and important report shows very NARROW racial differences. The word WIDE is used many times in this article. These abuses are not WIDE, they are, in fact, very FOCUSED-- on blacks, people of color, the poor, the disadvantaged, the mentally challenged, the "different."
It would be very interesting to know how many late-model Mercedes or Tesla drivers are stopped, much less tasered.
Nor is such abuse new. Mr Fields is right to say, “Every time I see a police officer, I get a cold chill. Even if I needed one, I wouldn’t call one.”
Talk to any student active in the civil rights or anti-war era of the 60s and 70s, to anyone with long hair, head bandanas, tattoos. etc., and you will hear the same.
When mere humans put on uniforms of authority, they suddenly become self-righteous arbiters of their own prejudices and the biases of their overlords. Address this phenomenon and we may make some real progress against these everyday, on-going, and often deadly abuses.
9
My wife and I know James Fields–we were one of the families that paid him and his son to do yard work to make ends meet when he lost his job at Walmart as a result of this injustice. For anyone making comments about people looking or acting like "thugs," all it would take is meeting James in person to be able to tell that he is a sweet, mild mannered, and kind-hearted person. Judging him, or his son, or his friend Ms. Robinson, by how they look is the definition of the word "prejudice."
68
Justices Scalia, Alito, Thomas and Roberts, open your eyes! This is the real America, the one you don't care to see.
19
One hopes NYT shines similar light on police departments in Oregon,specially Beaverton, Portland, Hillsboro and county sheriffs in Washington county and Clackamas county of Oregon
3
I'm a little confused. Aren't a lot of these commenters the same people who bemoan the fact that so many black families grow up without fathers (see: "Fragile Baltimore" article, "A Disadvantaged start" article) and end up in chaos, especially the men? Well, this is step one folks: live by the rules of society. Don't drive with expired plates, don't hang trash out of the back of your truck without red flags, make sure your license is active, respect authority, etc., etc. I'm a high school teacher so I would add: respect your teachers; you know, the people who really do have your best interests at heart. Anyone who teaches in the inner cry knows how difficult it is. So why give these guys a pass? You can't have it both ways.
27
Okay, sometimes a comment that is so obtuse as this one needs to be called out. White people also drive with expired plates, hang trash out of the back of their truck without red flags, have expired plates, and are disrespectful, etc. The WHOLE POINT of this article is that those white people are less likely to be pulled over, less likely to be ticketed, less likely to be arrested, less likely to be tasered and assaulted, less likely to be killed than black people. Now follow the bouncing ball: if black men are more likely to be jailed for the same offenses as white males then there are less black males available to be heads of households.
Are you sure you're a teacher? Because your logic skills and reading comprehension are terrible.
Are you sure you're a teacher? Because your logic skills and reading comprehension are terrible.
5
I think the issue is how the police officer handled the stops of Mr. Fields and the Scales brothers.
One of the Scales brothers broke certain driving laws and the officer chose to stop his car. I have no issue with that. What happened during the stop was unnecessary.
The stop of Mr. Fields and his companion was absolutely horrible and shameless. Thank goodness his companion did not die of diabetic shock. Since when does one have a sign to announce that he/she has diabetes?
One of the Scales brothers broke certain driving laws and the officer chose to stop his car. I have no issue with that. What happened during the stop was unnecessary.
The stop of Mr. Fields and his companion was absolutely horrible and shameless. Thank goodness his companion did not die of diabetic shock. Since when does one have a sign to announce that he/she has diabetes?
2
I was once pulled over in LA for having expired tags (oops!). I was given a warning and an apology for the inconvenience. I was not ticketed, searched, questioned, tazed or jailed.
I am white. The stop occurred in a poor, majority-Latino neighborhood.
I am white. The stop occurred in a poor, majority-Latino neighborhood.
1
Good article. One for the archives. And yes, many Blacks shiver when they see a cop car behind them. They have reason. Those who don't shiver are naïve. Too many cops have a Doubel-0 designation. Licensed to kill, it it's Black and speaking.
7
This is news? Any black person can tell you this is true. I was pulled over by seven cops in New Jersey for no reason whatsoever. At the time I was a graduate professor and I owned my own business in Manhattan. I did nothing to antagonize the police and was never charged with anything related to the traffic stop but I'd gotten new insurance docs the day before and didn't have them in my car so they impounded it. Then when they drove me back to my leafy, tony neighborhood in Montclair it slowly and visibly dawned on them they hadn't caught an actual scofflaw. No cop showed up for my hearing, but when I told the DA I'd been arrested for "DWB" he said, "Don't make that claim. You're going to ruin the careers of some good men." Yeah, well, all charges dismissed. And that's far from the only story I can tell.
All of you trying to massage this into something that doesn't go on in this country: shame on you. Shame, shame on you.
All of you trying to massage this into something that doesn't go on in this country: shame on you. Shame, shame on you.
443
You were supposed to worry about people's careers?
1
'...I'd gotten new insurance docs the day before and didn't have them in my car so they impounded it...'
So as far as the police were concerned, you were driving without insurance, correct, which in many states is a misdemeanor?
This happened to a friend of mine who had let her insurance lapse. She was arrested and put in jail overnight, after which she had to go to court and pays fines that came to $5000. She is Caucasian.
There is no doubt racism amongst the police, but best to find people who have not broken the law as poster children.
So as far as the police were concerned, you were driving without insurance, correct, which in many states is a misdemeanor?
This happened to a friend of mine who had let her insurance lapse. She was arrested and put in jail overnight, after which she had to go to court and pays fines that came to $5000. She is Caucasian.
There is no doubt racism amongst the police, but best to find people who have not broken the law as poster children.
2
No need to shame people who don't see every police interaction through your own lens. Your situation, like many others', has been unfair, but you cannot view ALL policing through that lens.
Not every person stopped is an angel. Many people do, in fact, break the law. Many seem to have a very tenuous relationship with the law. Many are dangerous. Cops have to deal with all kinds.
Not every person stopped is an angel. Many people do, in fact, break the law. Many seem to have a very tenuous relationship with the law. Many are dangerous. Cops have to deal with all kinds.
3
Another "the police are all evil" article from the NYT to stoke the flames of the liberal War on Cops, and the editors could not even wait until the black NYPD officer murdered by a black career criminal was buried. Police, under fire from the left-wing media, politicians, and extremists groups who advocate confrontation and even violence to obstruct police activity are fueling the shift by officers to Reactive Policing, which has resulted in rising violent crime in liberal-governed cities. Not to worry, we can count on the NYT to blame that problem on the police as well. Criticizing anti-police radical is not allowed.
18
The inherent racism against blacks among whites and even non-whites has risen during last fifty years because the media is full of criminal and scary portrayals of young black males. It makes people defensive and drives them away from blacks. This reaction is not fair, and is racist, but it's also understandable. It's the basic instinct in a situation that is perceived as dangerous. The constant bombardment of the negatives have created a mind set that is hard to be altered easily.
Yes, the police reform will help, so will presence of more young blacks who are better raised, better educated, and better behaved.
Yes, the police reform will help, so will presence of more young blacks who are better raised, better educated, and better behaved.
4
Traffic stops are designed to save lives. However if the residents wish to discontinue that effort, I support them wholeheartedly.
3
Read the whole article, tito. This point is addressed. These traffic stops in question are not the ones that actually literally save lives.
1
If a police officer pulls you over to give you ticket for an expired registration, you can believe it's not to save your life.
Some traffic stops are designed to either enforce the law or or intimidate and harass some individuals.
A popular police tactic is top a driver for some minor infraction and look for a way to find other infractions or escalate the situation so that it leads to an arrest.
Some traffic stops are designed to either enforce the law or or intimidate and harass some individuals.
A popular police tactic is top a driver for some minor infraction and look for a way to find other infractions or escalate the situation so that it leads to an arrest.
2
The North Carolina data actually show that 46 percent of Greensboro motorists pulled over during a 10-year period were white while 49.8 were black in a city that is 48 percent white and 41 percent black. The article is correct when it points out that demographic variables such as median age and income alone are enough to account for the disparity in traffic stops. The data show that 6.58 percent of black motorists and 3.15 percent of white motorists were searched during traffic stops, but 1.7 percent of the black motorists who were searched had warrants for their arrest while 0.7 percent of white motorists who were searched had warrants for their arrest. This factor alone accounted for one percent of the 3.43 disparity in searches. The data also show that 3.77 percent of black motorists consented to a search while only 1.87 percent of white motorists consented. These two factors alone reduce the racial disparity in search to insignificance.
http://www.unc.edu/~fbaum/TrafficStops/Reports2014/GreensboroSummary.pdf
http://www.unc.edu/~fbaum/TrafficStops/Reports2014/GreensboroSummary.pdf
18
But it seems that poor people have more than their share of warrants. If you can't pay a ticket, the ticket is outstanding, then there's a warrant out for you. No? If you're poor and can't pay the child support, warrant? Wasn't that the case with that middle-aged gentleman Walter Scott who was killed by police who then went and dropped their taser by his dead body.
4
William, thanks for that link. How do you know that these are the data examined by the authors of this article?
1
Readers' PIck number one by Kate in Dublin (Ireland?) is excellent, not only for the case she makes but also for her radical introduction of a variable other than color where in all American research there are exactly two colors, black and white.
Kate shows that in an ideal research world a study might be made in a single region where some rules for researchers (and Times journalists) would be set.
1) There are no genetically distinct races so as concerns identification by skin color only two such would be used unless researchers want to run an experiment. In this experiment, the skin color would be measured for every black (see Spencer Piston trial research, Maxwell School).
2) Since African-American is or was strictly speaking an ethnicity requiring that anyone designated AA had to have an American slave in his or her lineage that term will not be used as a synonym for "black".
3) An effort would be made to follow Kate's example, and add variables such as economic level of the area where the stop was made. Perhaps the nature of the car might be an important variable.
This note was triggered by an excellent essay in my Swedish newspaper written by experts in genetics who cite a study of the percentage of Swedes in different groups who believe that there are genetically distinct races. Will it surprise you to learn that the highest percentage is to be found in the Nazi based SD party?
And you?
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen-USA-SE
Kate shows that in an ideal research world a study might be made in a single region where some rules for researchers (and Times journalists) would be set.
1) There are no genetically distinct races so as concerns identification by skin color only two such would be used unless researchers want to run an experiment. In this experiment, the skin color would be measured for every black (see Spencer Piston trial research, Maxwell School).
2) Since African-American is or was strictly speaking an ethnicity requiring that anyone designated AA had to have an American slave in his or her lineage that term will not be used as a synonym for "black".
3) An effort would be made to follow Kate's example, and add variables such as economic level of the area where the stop was made. Perhaps the nature of the car might be an important variable.
This note was triggered by an excellent essay in my Swedish newspaper written by experts in genetics who cite a study of the percentage of Swedes in different groups who believe that there are genetically distinct races. Will it surprise you to learn that the highest percentage is to be found in the Nazi based SD party?
And you?
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen-USA-SE
1
No surprise. Especially after yesterday's shooting in Trollhattan, Sweden.
N. Smith: the only shooting in Trollhättan was by a cop. The bad guy had a sword. Imagine what he'd have "achieved" had he had a gun!
Other studies report that arrests aren't up but prosecutions are. Perhaps the NYTimes should look beyond the street cops and consider the actions of prosecuting attorneys who are often running for higher office on a "law and order" ticket. Also, prisons are now the primary employers and source of government contracts (food services, construction, telecom) in many communities. All these factors contribute to hatred of police but the decisions are made far above a cop's pay grade.
4
I am sure that it has happened, however in none of the cases in the article or any of the sensational cases has it been that the person immediately complied with the cop(s), politely geet the cop and let the cop speak first, made no movements other than as directed, made no offensive or disrespectful expressions or gestures, did or said nothing that could be misinterpreted, used overly respective polite language and just answered all questions without argument or challenge. Cops expect and want respect for themselves and their authority. Cops are under a lot of stress and especially in high crime areas must make split second decisions, and once made everything might go in the wrong direction regardless of what is said or done after that.
11
cops hate it when you don't immediately comply with their racism.
3
Good grief you talk about cops as if they were wild animals that need to be handled with extreme care and attention lest they turn and bite.
3
Based on many of the comments here, I now understand why the Times believes it can get away with inadequate data analysis and rely on anecdotal reports. One would think that the average Times reader would be reasonably and immediately respond to this article and say -- why haven't you controlled for other factors like crime rates, education, age, etc. that may account for these discrepancies? Instead, the majority of the commenters here appear to accept this analysis as proving their belief that the cops are incompetent, racist, etc. -- when in fact it does no such thing.
Come on, readers. Aren't you sharp enough to read critically and to overcome your own biases? I personally am very disappointed.
Come on, readers. Aren't you sharp enough to read critically and to overcome your own biases? I personally am very disappointed.
18
We have to control for education? It's OK to be stopped for driving with a GED?
What about the level of education of police officers? How many of them barely made it out of high school?
What about the level of education of police officers? How many of them barely made it out of high school?
2
I have faith in you USA. I have faith that one day you will grow up to be a reasonable and just society. I have faith you will eventually work out that calling dark-skinned people of African descent "black" in English, is no better than calling them "black" in Spanish. I have faith that the knowledge that skin tone is no marker of commonality of character, will be widespread culturally in your country. I have faith that eventually you will get that we are all human and all individuals, and that the good can not be sorted from the bad, by sorting the dark from the light.
5
We don't really care.
Because Australia has a stellar record of treating its aborigines fairly.
And I hope Australia will do the same in regards to Native/Indigenous Peoples and Middle Easterners, all of whom are recipients and sometimes victims of your own nation's racist history and attitudes among the "white" majority.
Lots of readers discussing the problem. How about a solution: (1) cops to treat all suspects as innocent. Really. No perp waks. No belligerent language. And so on. And (2), the public to cooperate fully with the cops, with no push back whatsoever, so that cops never have to feel threatened. With all the animosity diffused, cops will figure out pretty quickly that skin color is irrelevant.
2
This study has been repeated over and over again, and yet, the same results always occurs. Sadly, no matter how much evidence one provides, white Americans who believe that society is colorblind (or that racism doesn't exist any more) will question the method and result. Better yet, they will give the tiresome argument of "it's anything but race."
5
And it's not only in the South where this terror stalks. Last year, I on my way to Mass, I drove by a stalled car. The driver, a Hispanic man, sat stunned in the open door. He may have been inebriated or high on drugs. As traffic moved to the left, behind the officer, he stood in a shooter's stance, both hands on his pistol, pointed squarely at the the driver. Now, in fairness, it could be that the officer had cause to pull out his weapon; however, the driver was in no condition to offer any resistance to the officer. He could have summoned back-up. What most stayed with me was the look of cold, merciless will on the officer's face. He was prepared, ready, perhaps even anxious, to take a life. No motorist or pedestrian was in danger on this late Saturday afternoon in Steger, Illinois, sun shining brightly on a fall day. No other squad cars were around. It would have been the officer's word against the driver's in a court of inquiry. Whom do you think a judge, in a bench trial, would have believed? Or a jury trial? It's almost impossible to convict an officer when there are not witnesses.
10
its going to take a long time for police departments to change from maximum, hi touch, shock and awe style contact with people to a more measured, data driven approach. It is clear from this article that Greensboro is a very long way from that, and the level of disrespect their chief allows his officers to show the general public will soon become very expensive.
1
I was recently at a church event where the minister, a African American man in his 60s, told us that one recent Sunday afternoon he was leaving church with his wife and was pulled over by a police officer. When he asked why he was pulled over, the police officer told the minister that he smelled grass. Days later the local police chief apologized to the minister but I shudder to think of what would have happened if the minister had been in his 20s, driving with his friends, and not dressed in a suit.
11
I hope this is not surprising to anyone! Driving while black is the unwriten MV stop in every town in every county in New Jersey after 1130 PM! Our State Supreme Court just got rid of the requirement that the police obtain a warrarnt or knowing and voluntary waiver for a consent search of a vehicle. Not surprisingly, every cops has had a lifetime of training to smell "raw" marijuana or "smoked" weed at every stop, which results in Probable Cause for search of a vehicle!! (The same officers have received the best, more effective law enforcment training so they can even smell 'raw' weed through numerous glass viles sealed shut or municipal zip lock bags!!! Now that is the best training the state police can provide. What is more amazing is the training these same officers receive for smelling alcohol. Ironically, these officers smell alcohol on the breath of drivers even when the DWI alcotest results are 0.00!
Don't even get me started on the rediculous bail issues outlined this week by the NYT!
Don't even get me started on the rediculous bail issues outlined this week by the NYT!
9
Hiring police officers with such problematic personalities (be it low self-esteem, deep seated racism, megalomania, etc. ) that a question, attitude, lip, perceived disrespect, even merely the color of skin can throw them into a frenzy of violence is insanity. Not prosecuting and dismissing them is criminal and brings up institutionalized racism, megalomania or worse?
Obviously not all police officers are like that. Despite how dangerous their job can be many are professional and maintain law abiding standards and do their job well. But where are their voices, their rebukes? Are they as scared of their out of control, brutal fellow officers as, judging from comments here, citizens appear to be? Or is it the institution of policing, political ideology, the thin blue line, their own safety, that keeps them silent?
Obviously not all police officers are like that. Despite how dangerous their job can be many are professional and maintain law abiding standards and do their job well. But where are their voices, their rebukes? Are they as scared of their out of control, brutal fellow officers as, judging from comments here, citizens appear to be? Or is it the institution of policing, political ideology, the thin blue line, their own safety, that keeps them silent?
101
Would you, angel of all people, be willing to become policewoman (or policeman)? Would you OK your daughter (or son) become a policeperson?
We and inner cities communities are at critical need of people like you, i.e. people "without such problematic personalities". We need policepeople who are highly intelligent (bot intellectual and social intelligence), educated, etc.
So why these kinds of people do not typically apply for poce (or armed forces) career?
Because the risks of loss of life, limbs, serious injury, etc. are so much higher than in almost any other profession and the nature of job (policing, fighting war) simply calls for wiling acceptance of rather different kind of daily activities than almost any other job.
So, unless you, your kids, etc. are actually embarking on police (or armed forces) career your convenient and unrealistically selective high standards on front-line law enforcement personnel is an unhelpful illusion.
We and inner cities communities are at critical need of people like you, i.e. people "without such problematic personalities". We need policepeople who are highly intelligent (bot intellectual and social intelligence), educated, etc.
So why these kinds of people do not typically apply for poce (or armed forces) career?
Because the risks of loss of life, limbs, serious injury, etc. are so much higher than in almost any other profession and the nature of job (policing, fighting war) simply calls for wiling acceptance of rather different kind of daily activities than almost any other job.
So, unless you, your kids, etc. are actually embarking on police (or armed forces) career your convenient and unrealistically selective high standards on front-line law enforcement personnel is an unhelpful illusion.
Institutional racism in American society is well-documented. That it affects how traffic cops do their jobs is not surprising. But, it stems from attitudes which pervade all levels of society. The question, almost impossible to answer, is how do we root it out of society? I don't think there is a boilerplate answer to this set of problems. The tone set in each police department by those at the top of the department will make a big difference, but won't eliminate the unconscious attitudes many of its line staff have.
In the very first example in this article, a black man is pulled over for traffic violations, then is Tasered by a black officer. So, can we assume that we have a locally level playing field in this instance, one where we can factor out racism because both participants are black? No, because there is a social power disparity. One of them is a cop. And, at least partly because of his job, he may be more predisposed to quickly subduing black suspects. Why? I don't know, but I could guess. Perhaps, in his mind, black suspects are more likely to escalate routine stops into violent encounters. Perhaps, this assumption is based on his actual experiences on the job, as well as while growing up among blacks.
So, here, if my guesses are correct (big if) institutional racism is being enforced at least partly because the officer is black. How can we possibly change this situation, or overcome it? I don't know.
1
The Greensboro police chief is quoted as saying, “The way we accomplish our job is through contact, and one of the more common tools we have is stopping cars.”
Holy cow! Really?
How about getting police out of their cars and into the communities they serve? Have them walk the streets and parks. Introduce themselves to business owners and shoppers on Main Street. Have lunch in the neighborhood, and not just at the donut shop (sorry, couldn't resist). Try that sort of contact. When your preferred mode of contact is a traffic stop, you are setting yourselves up as an adversaries.
If you really think that contact via a police stop is a good idea, let's try an experiment. Start stopping white drivers more than black drivers. Let's see how that works out for your department.
Holy cow! Really?
How about getting police out of their cars and into the communities they serve? Have them walk the streets and parks. Introduce themselves to business owners and shoppers on Main Street. Have lunch in the neighborhood, and not just at the donut shop (sorry, couldn't resist). Try that sort of contact. When your preferred mode of contact is a traffic stop, you are setting yourselves up as an adversaries.
If you really think that contact via a police stop is a good idea, let's try an experiment. Start stopping white drivers more than black drivers. Let's see how that works out for your department.
8
Drive carefully and cautiously and check the tags on your license periodically.
6
Earth to The New York Times. This is so not news. The only difference is now there is better documentation.
7
Not a single person wants to say it; not the NY Times, none of the commenters on here, nowhere in the liberal media. I can diagnose this problem quite easily.
It's called perception or in many cases "guilty by association." These "findings" are in fact likely accurate (profiling), but for all the wrong reasons. The Times, along with the left have a clear goal to divide. They only speak of the result and symptom, but not the sickness.
The majority of Black culture celebrates violence and acting out against others. It celebrates excess and materialism. It's a nation wide insecurity. I once asked this exact question to a Black colleague (conservative) and he says you have no idea how terribly insecure the majority of Blacks are with other Blacks. It really has absolutely nothing to do with Whites; which is why articles like this are written for all the wrong reasons.
Excuse me for not being politically correct asking someone to leave a store with their pants down, hat on sideways, and $300 nikes Air Jordans. Do I like doing it? Not for a moment. But evidence suggests patterns and as someone familiar with risk management, if you see the same thing time and time and time and time and time and time again, we'll you can generally form a relatively accurate hypothesis based on past events.
Sorry. The Black community requires deep introspection. Only then will the police curtail their behavior. If anything, I think this gets worse before better.
It's called perception or in many cases "guilty by association." These "findings" are in fact likely accurate (profiling), but for all the wrong reasons. The Times, along with the left have a clear goal to divide. They only speak of the result and symptom, but not the sickness.
The majority of Black culture celebrates violence and acting out against others. It celebrates excess and materialism. It's a nation wide insecurity. I once asked this exact question to a Black colleague (conservative) and he says you have no idea how terribly insecure the majority of Blacks are with other Blacks. It really has absolutely nothing to do with Whites; which is why articles like this are written for all the wrong reasons.
Excuse me for not being politically correct asking someone to leave a store with their pants down, hat on sideways, and $300 nikes Air Jordans. Do I like doing it? Not for a moment. But evidence suggests patterns and as someone familiar with risk management, if you see the same thing time and time and time and time and time and time again, we'll you can generally form a relatively accurate hypothesis based on past events.
Sorry. The Black community requires deep introspection. Only then will the police curtail their behavior. If anything, I think this gets worse before better.
29
@NYC NYC
"The majority of Black culture celebrates violence and acting out against others."
And such gross generalizations describes precisely why this particular problem is so rampant in the law enforcement community today.
Perhaps you are not aware of just how racist your comment comes across.
A word to the wise: Beware of generalizations. And try to walk in another mans's shoes before offering quick advice.
"The majority of Black culture celebrates violence and acting out against others."
And such gross generalizations describes precisely why this particular problem is so rampant in the law enforcement community today.
Perhaps you are not aware of just how racist your comment comes across.
A word to the wise: Beware of generalizations. And try to walk in another mans's shoes before offering quick advice.
5
Your statement that "evidence suggests patterns" completely ignores the facts in the article: "officers pulled over African-American drivers for traffic violations at a rate far out of proportion with their share of the local driving population. They used their discretion to search black drivers or their cars more than twice as often as white motorists — even though they found drugs and weapons significantly more often when the driver was white.
Officers were more likely to stop black drivers for no discernible reason. And they were more likely to use force if the driver was black, even when they did not encounter physical resistance."
Officers were more likely to stop black drivers for no discernible reason. And they were more likely to use force if the driver was black, even when they did not encounter physical resistance."
4
Wow. I'm black and I've never done any such thing. You are taking the behavior of a few individuals and making a generalization about all of the rest. News flash: that's racism. You are 100% part of the problem if this is what you truly believe.
7
Mememe, not everyone who is stopped driving while black, has drugs on them. In fact, most people, black and white are just trying to get from one place to another. The terrible problem for people of color, the driver and passenger may end up very dead once stopped by a white policeman. We need cameras instead of policeman stopping drivers unless there is a danger. Tickets can be sent home and the driver never meets a policeman. It is not an African-American's responsibility to teach a white policeman that the stereotypes he learned at his father's knee have never been true. Become a policeman, you better know the truth or chose another job.
7
I'm a retired police supervisor. I think police departments across the country need to listen to their communities. On a national level they want less proactive patrol in their communities especially African American communities. Give it to them. Stop encouraging officers to to push the constitutional envelope with searches and car stops. Use more discretion on making arrests for minor crimes. Do this without compromising on officer safety. If you think an ACLU lawyer would wrinkle their nose at a police action don't do it unless officer safety is involved.
139
To Tim New York
I agree I do think that "police departments across the country need to listen to their communities." But for the rest, it's a cop-out and disingenuous.
African American communities do not want proactive patrols to stop they want police violence and discrimination to stop, there is an enormous difference between the former and the latter.
As for "If you think an ACLU lawyer would wrinkle their nose…don't do it". "wrinkle their nose" how dismissive can you get? It should be if think of doing something illegal - don't do it. What is needed is better training and tactics and knowledge of legal and constitutional rights. Yes, some things are borderline but a well trained professional will make an informed decision, and yes sometimes that will be up for scrutiny and so it should be as with all public servants. But to suggest that the ACLU is just waiting to pillory the police is puerile, that kind of thinking does great disservice to both the police and the ACLU and stalls advancement of any kind.
In my opinion a better way is one that encourages conversation and community involvement with the police. This has been proven a huge positive, in addressing ignorance and prejudice on both sides, in building trust and developing a positive working environment for everyone involved. Even in evolving ideas as to what is the role of the police in our society.
I agree I do think that "police departments across the country need to listen to their communities." But for the rest, it's a cop-out and disingenuous.
African American communities do not want proactive patrols to stop they want police violence and discrimination to stop, there is an enormous difference between the former and the latter.
As for "If you think an ACLU lawyer would wrinkle their nose…don't do it". "wrinkle their nose" how dismissive can you get? It should be if think of doing something illegal - don't do it. What is needed is better training and tactics and knowledge of legal and constitutional rights. Yes, some things are borderline but a well trained professional will make an informed decision, and yes sometimes that will be up for scrutiny and so it should be as with all public servants. But to suggest that the ACLU is just waiting to pillory the police is puerile, that kind of thinking does great disservice to both the police and the ACLU and stalls advancement of any kind.
In my opinion a better way is one that encourages conversation and community involvement with the police. This has been proven a huge positive, in addressing ignorance and prejudice on both sides, in building trust and developing a positive working environment for everyone involved. Even in evolving ideas as to what is the role of the police in our society.
2
Tim,
I love the "visual" of your ACLU lawyer wrinkling his/her nose.
We might also use, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
I love the "visual" of your ACLU lawyer wrinkling his/her nose.
We might also use, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
1
Dear Tim, (Hope you check back for responses),
This that you suggest is part of the problem, police depts do listen to their communities, the "white males" who run most areas. In many cases, the ACLU is a cruel joke on black people, they are not even the begin of a shred of action to help in RP cases. Local ACLU's are only looking for topics that are going to attract them enough publicity to garner donations. When we get real, many of the groups, including the NAACP, Rainbow Coalition, etc, are mainly interested, like so many preachers, in what is in the collection plates, who gave it and do nothing to stop them from putting more in. When you see the ACLU as threatening your officers, in actuality, they are providing you cover.
Never for a second do I want you to think that protection of officers is lost on me and others, we fully support full protection for all who are law abiding. We just do not want that shield to be a cover for killing or harming more black people on bogus actions. When white officers want George Zimmerman's signature, that answers all questions about their full respect for the rights and lives of black people.
Thank you, now please engage in real dialogue so that you can become a part of the solution rather than in your stance now, a part of the problem.
This that you suggest is part of the problem, police depts do listen to their communities, the "white males" who run most areas. In many cases, the ACLU is a cruel joke on black people, they are not even the begin of a shred of action to help in RP cases. Local ACLU's are only looking for topics that are going to attract them enough publicity to garner donations. When we get real, many of the groups, including the NAACP, Rainbow Coalition, etc, are mainly interested, like so many preachers, in what is in the collection plates, who gave it and do nothing to stop them from putting more in. When you see the ACLU as threatening your officers, in actuality, they are providing you cover.
Never for a second do I want you to think that protection of officers is lost on me and others, we fully support full protection for all who are law abiding. We just do not want that shield to be a cover for killing or harming more black people on bogus actions. When white officers want George Zimmerman's signature, that answers all questions about their full respect for the rights and lives of black people.
Thank you, now please engage in real dialogue so that you can become a part of the solution rather than in your stance now, a part of the problem.
1
I can't comment on the statistics for Greensboro, NC, but many of the scads of "disparate impact" cases we have been hearing so much about recently are not the result of racism. For example, from the Times's analysis of police shootings (ignored by its news, editorial, and op-pages):
"African-Americans are being killed disproportionately and by a wide margin ... But this data does not prove that biased police officers are more likely to shoot blacks in any given encounter.
Instead, there is another possibility: It is simply that — for reasons that may well include police bias — African-Americans have a very large number of encounters with police officers ...
Such risks exist for people of any race ... But having more encounters with police officers, even with officers entirely free of racial bias, can create a greater risk of a fatal shooting.
Arrest data lets us measure this possibility. For the entire country, 28.9 percent of arrestees were African-American. This number is not very different from the 31.8 percent of police-shooting victims who were African-Americans. If police discrimination were a big factor in the actual killings, we would have expected a larger gap between the arrest rate and the police-killing rate.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/18/upshot/police-killings-of-blacks-what-...
And different stop rates on the NJ Turnpike are the result of differential speeding rates:
http://edition.cnn.com/2002/LAW/03/27/nj.speeding.study/index.html
"African-Americans are being killed disproportionately and by a wide margin ... But this data does not prove that biased police officers are more likely to shoot blacks in any given encounter.
Instead, there is another possibility: It is simply that — for reasons that may well include police bias — African-Americans have a very large number of encounters with police officers ...
Such risks exist for people of any race ... But having more encounters with police officers, even with officers entirely free of racial bias, can create a greater risk of a fatal shooting.
Arrest data lets us measure this possibility. For the entire country, 28.9 percent of arrestees were African-American. This number is not very different from the 31.8 percent of police-shooting victims who were African-Americans. If police discrimination were a big factor in the actual killings, we would have expected a larger gap between the arrest rate and the police-killing rate.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/18/upshot/police-killings-of-blacks-what-...
And different stop rates on the NJ Turnpike are the result of differential speeding rates:
http://edition.cnn.com/2002/LAW/03/27/nj.speeding.study/index.html
9
Faulty logic. Let's say, for illustration, that blacks are 10 percent of the population. Let's also say that, because they are generally poorer, they are 50 percent more likely than whites to commit crimes or be violent. During a confrontation with the police So then they should make up 15 percent of arrests and also 15 percent of police kills (roughly). But because of police racism, they are actually twice as likely to be arrested and also twice as likely to be killed, given the same behavior. Then they would make up 30 percent of arrests and 30 percent of kills. In other words, there would be no difference between the arrest and kill fractions - both would be equally high because of racism. The fact that the arrest and kill fractions are similar is completely consistent with the hypothesis that both are influenced by police racism.
I too read the NYT article you are referring to, and was surprised that they misinterpreted this simple statistical point.
For the mathematically inclined: the calculations above are slightly off. The correct percentage of arrests and kills would be 25, not 30, but the conclusion remains the same.
I too read the NYT article you are referring to, and was surprised that they misinterpreted this simple statistical point.
For the mathematically inclined: the calculations above are slightly off. The correct percentage of arrests and kills would be 25, not 30, but the conclusion remains the same.
Unfortunately, the facts are much worse than your hypotheticals and cannot be explained by police racism. Blacks commit homicide (the crime with the best statistics because dead bodies are hard to either ignore or manufacture) at about 7 times the rate for whites (page 11 of BJS link below), accounting for 52% of homicide perpetrators despite being only 13% of the population (nor is this differential mainly explained by poverty differentials, though that of course is irrelevant in judging whether police are racist--they only care who committed the crime, not why they did it).
If, as seems likely, there's a pretty good correlation between those who commit homicides and those who threaten police during arrest, it's surprising that blacks do not make up more than 32% of police shooting victims. As the two cases linked below show, our police are too ready to resort to force, but racism is not the reason.
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf
Two cases that haven't received much coverage:
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/06/lisa_mearkle_hummelst...
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/video/#!/on-air/as-seen-on/Raw-Video--Deputies-Beat-Man-After-Horse-Pursuit/299348011
If, as seems likely, there's a pretty good correlation between those who commit homicides and those who threaten police during arrest, it's surprising that blacks do not make up more than 32% of police shooting victims. As the two cases linked below show, our police are too ready to resort to force, but racism is not the reason.
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf
Two cases that haven't received much coverage:
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/06/lisa_mearkle_hummelst...
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/video/#!/on-air/as-seen-on/Raw-Video--Deputies-Beat-Man-After-Horse-Pursuit/299348011
This article uses real data to show that whites commit certain crimes at a much higher rate than blacks and yet blacks are arrested for that same crime at a much higher rate than whites.
Yet some commenters not only take no issue with this, they actually say they agree with it and it's okay.
To paraphrase Jeff Foxworthy: if you are one of those commenters, you might be a racist.
Yet some commenters not only take no issue with this, they actually say they agree with it and it's okay.
To paraphrase Jeff Foxworthy: if you are one of those commenters, you might be a racist.
16
The article doesn't use "real data" to show blacks are arrested for higher rates than whites for the same crime. The article says surveys show whites are as likely to use marijuana as blacks but blacks are arrested more often for marijuana possession. However, using marijuana is not the same as possessing marijuana. The surveys cited ask respondents if they have used marijuana sometime over the past several months or year. A teenager who took a whiff of a marijuana cigarette passed around at party answers yes to that question. To have relevance to arrests, the surveys would have to ask do you routinely carry marijuana in your possession or do you traffic in marijuana?
You betray yourself with this comment, William. In the absence of other data, a non-biased person would assume that your "teenager taking a whiff of marijuana" theory would apply equally to both blacks and whites. Your implication that white teenagers dabble in marijuana but black teenagers routinely carry or traffic in marijuana shows exactly where you are coming from.
3
[[Blacks and whites use marijuana at virtually the same rate, but black residents here are charged with the sole offense of possession of minor amounts of marijuana five times as often as white residents are.]]
Leave your weed at home. Why is that such a difficult concept to grasp?
Leave your weed at home. Why is that such a difficult concept to grasp?
11
No one goes to jail for using marijuana. They get arrested for possessing marijuana or trafficking in marijuana. The cited surveys ask respondents if they have used marijuana sometime in the past month or year. They don't ask respondents if they routinely carry marijuana on their person or in their vehicles. Many people take a drag on marijuana cigarettes passed around at parties, but never buy or sell marijuana and never carry marijuana on their person.
Most people leave home with a small amount of marijuana in their possession for different reasons, some for medicinal reasons and some for their own sense of happiness... How about police stop harassing people, especially people of color...
3
I guess you skipped over the part of the article where it mentioned that a higher percentage of white motorist where found to have either weapons or drugs when their vehicles are searched.
3
If the people who wore purple T-shirts had a one in four chance of having spent time in jail, what would your reaction be to people who wore purple T-shirts?
Prejudice is not fair but it is not irrational.
Prejudice is not fair but it is not irrational.
14
Purple! Not my style But hey! whatever floats your boat.
Prejudice is always irrational, in your example it's based on assumption, very irrational.
Prejudice is always irrational, in your example it's based on assumption, very irrational.
In order to subject blacks to unnecessary stops and harassment, there has to be societal acceptance of the inherent criminality of blacks. Of course, police can get away with charging a black driver with resisting or obstructing arrest AFTER he has been stunned and paralyzed, because the assumption, again, is that blacks are inherently violent. Plus, they lie and bring all this on themselves. Isn't that what your think, America?
15
Even for white people, calling the police can be very foolhardy. That it borders on being suicidal for Black people is a national disgrace.
20
Police make about 12 million arrests per year, of which less than one tenth of one percent result in fatalities. The odds against a person being killed during an arrest are astronomical, but the odds of a person who calls police being killed are many times greater.
More great reporting by the Times. Thank-you. I hope some positive change will come out of such reporting.
8
Trump will fix this as he said he has thousands of black employees.
1
Any white kid who had long hair in the 60's learned to fear cops.
8
And some of us still do half-a-century later.
1
Can someone please ask James B. Comey to take a look at these stats so he can stop speculating and start dealing with reality.
7
There are more blacks stopped in traffic stops for the same reason there are more blacks in our jails. A fundamental disrespect for laws and authority which occurs at a munch higher rate than the rest of our society.
14
So how do you explain the fact that despite being less than 8 percent of the population, blacks in Iowa account for over 80 percent of people arrested for possessing marijuana? Whites in Iowa actually us it at a higher rate.
3
But that is not true. That´s the point.
2
They must be one of the most kind hearted and forgiving people you could ever have the pleasure of meeting if :
"A fundamental disrespect for laws and authority which occurs at a much higher rate than the rest of our society."
...is their response and attitude following the absolute misery, hate, prejudice, racism, murder, attacks, cruelty, ill treatment, poverty, inhumanity, criminal and all the other unmitigated and constant challenges, actions,handicaps and barriers that Americans have assailed them with for the last 300 years and which continues to this day.
You would think by now, you could cut them some slack based on how terribly, consistently and long they have been abused, demeaned and treated?
Of course not! You double down instead!
You would expect after treating these people so badly, for so long your capacity for bad behavior towards them would be exhausted, but it remains as strong as ever, as you continue to hurt , harm and hinder these people as best you can.
What drives your hateful behaviour...surely not just the shame and self loathing of continued failure and inability?
I am in awe of African American Stoicism in the face of such sustained adversity.
And I am amazed at how badly America continues to be in its attitude and behaviour towards these Americans as well as not making any real effort to do or be better towards those that deserve so much more than it seems you are capable of giving let alone equality, that most basic of all rights.
"A fundamental disrespect for laws and authority which occurs at a much higher rate than the rest of our society."
...is their response and attitude following the absolute misery, hate, prejudice, racism, murder, attacks, cruelty, ill treatment, poverty, inhumanity, criminal and all the other unmitigated and constant challenges, actions,handicaps and barriers that Americans have assailed them with for the last 300 years and which continues to this day.
You would think by now, you could cut them some slack based on how terribly, consistently and long they have been abused, demeaned and treated?
Of course not! You double down instead!
You would expect after treating these people so badly, for so long your capacity for bad behavior towards them would be exhausted, but it remains as strong as ever, as you continue to hurt , harm and hinder these people as best you can.
What drives your hateful behaviour...surely not just the shame and self loathing of continued failure and inability?
I am in awe of African American Stoicism in the face of such sustained adversity.
And I am amazed at how badly America continues to be in its attitude and behaviour towards these Americans as well as not making any real effort to do or be better towards those that deserve so much more than it seems you are capable of giving let alone equality, that most basic of all rights.
2
"pulled them over for minor infractions that included expired plates and failing to hang a flag from a load of scrap metal in the pickup’s bed."
These are not minor infractions. In fact, their truck would have been impounded for those violations. And once again, the police would not have bothered them, if they haven't broken the law.
"Uncertain if he should get out of the car..."
You really believe this account?
No one is uncertain about what to do in a traffic stop. You present ID when asked and follow the legal instructions as given by the police.
Uncertain whether to get out of the car,
These are not minor infractions. In fact, their truck would have been impounded for those violations. And once again, the police would not have bothered them, if they haven't broken the law.
"Uncertain if he should get out of the car..."
You really believe this account?
No one is uncertain about what to do in a traffic stop. You present ID when asked and follow the legal instructions as given by the police.
Uncertain whether to get out of the car,
11
Actually, yes. As a young driver, I was in exactly that situation. I had no idea what I was supposed to do about that. Do you get out to see what the officer wants? Is staying in the car suspicious, like you're trying to hide? Maybe schools should teach kids what to do when a police officer pulls you over, or sees you walking in the street, so you don't get tazed or worse for doing the wrong thing.
5
Cops demand respect, but do not give it. Respect is earned.
13
I had a friend who was a Professor at Greensboro State College in the 1970's, a "black college" in the NC system. He called the press to his labs back then and showed them how North Carolina gave most of the majority white high schools better equipped science classrooms and laboratories than they gave their black colleges. Does anything change in any aspect of our American society?
3
I know we northerners like to look at the South as a hotbed of racial intolerance, but I suggest the writer take a look much closer to home -- New Rochelle, New York, a suburb of Westchester. When I showed up to the courthouse to fight the ticket, They accidentally sent me, a white woman, to the "wrong" courtroom, which was filled with people of color charged with drug offenses. After an hour a guard came in and called my name and directed me to the "right" courtroom, down the hall, where all the people were white and charged with traffic offenses. I was stunned by the blatant difference in the way whites and people of color were charged and treated in that town. And shocked that all this time, I thought we northerners were more tolerant and even handed, and less prejudiced, than folks in the South. It was sickeningly eye-opening. Check the records in New Rochelle, Westchester, New York, NY Times.
4
Perhaps because whites partake of their illegal drugs inside their homes, as opposed to on the street? It's actually very easy to avoid getting arrested for illegal drugs. Surprised people have not figured it out.
It is called Traffic Court for a reason.
The high crime rates within the black community seem to be consistent with black populations in every country, Western or non-Western. Charging all of our police officers with "racism" sounds like a bit of an oversimplification.
5
Yes. James Fields and Marie Robinson deserved to be insulted, brutalized and arrested because somewhere in America someone with their skin tone did something wrong. This makes perfect sense now.
2
It is hard to be a cop! People don't like tickets. At the start of the article the car was stopped because of expired license tags and not flagging the load properly. So, they were stopped legally. There is no way for the police to catch everyone who doesn't renew their license. They rely on everyone to follow the law. Can't arrest everyone.
1
I don't doubt racial profiling, no matter what everyone says that there are rules and guidelines against the practice. In the line of work for police, that's what they do. In the case were an overwhelming majority of crimes are committed by one racial or ethnic group, would you be more focused on that particular group, as a police officer, in order to be more effective, or rather, stopping every single person in sight in order "dilute" the impact? Common sense would tell us that the latter is just being silly, and taxpayers would not have expected the police to waste their time and efforts that way anyways.
I know I sound supremely politically incorrect, and I'm in no ways whatsoever endorsing discriminatory practice. What we should be mindful of, is that you can look where you want to look to collect "statistics" to suit your agenda. I'd bet you too, that if you ask, say, a black or latino police officer in South Central LA, and ask them if they would be less lenient toward black suspects just because it's politically incorrect to do so, they'll just laugh back in your face.
I know I sound supremely politically incorrect, and I'm in no ways whatsoever endorsing discriminatory practice. What we should be mindful of, is that you can look where you want to look to collect "statistics" to suit your agenda. I'd bet you too, that if you ask, say, a black or latino police officer in South Central LA, and ask them if they would be less lenient toward black suspects just because it's politically incorrect to do so, they'll just laugh back in your face.
2
It's actually a tragedy that White American Politicians and People managed to turn such a compliant, peaceful, diligent and hard Working people into so many poor, drug addicted, desperate and struggling people.
How different could things be now and over the last 160 years since "Emancipation" if you had actually treated these people as equals?
Instead you denied them, debilitated them, made them feel, taught and showed them that they were MUCH LESS than equals and never let up and still haven't.
If only you had been DECENT.
They are Americans.They are YOU. The same people and fellow countrymen.
If you or anybody else Thinks Not ( and by the actions taken as well as the inaction to improve, fix, help etc ...there are a LOT who obviously do think such), until YOU DO...
Things will never improve and know that it was White American Failure and lack of Desire to do otherwise , that has created so much hurt, hate and inequality that separates you all from each other and benefits none.
You are not a United People and do not have a Common Cause and until you Are you Won't.
You will know when you get there (IF you get there) when you find yourselves working in Unity for the Common Good.
Because, what's good for Triddle is good for Harry , Ann, Franklin, Nateesha, Hose, Frank, Wan except say for 1% of people.
Until then it's America as usual: Loggerheads...lots and lots of being at , being in and continuous Loggerheads.
And the very many bad consequences they create.
How different could things be now and over the last 160 years since "Emancipation" if you had actually treated these people as equals?
Instead you denied them, debilitated them, made them feel, taught and showed them that they were MUCH LESS than equals and never let up and still haven't.
If only you had been DECENT.
They are Americans.They are YOU. The same people and fellow countrymen.
If you or anybody else Thinks Not ( and by the actions taken as well as the inaction to improve, fix, help etc ...there are a LOT who obviously do think such), until YOU DO...
Things will never improve and know that it was White American Failure and lack of Desire to do otherwise , that has created so much hurt, hate and inequality that separates you all from each other and benefits none.
You are not a United People and do not have a Common Cause and until you Are you Won't.
You will know when you get there (IF you get there) when you find yourselves working in Unity for the Common Good.
Because, what's good for Triddle is good for Harry , Ann, Franklin, Nateesha, Hose, Frank, Wan except say for 1% of people.
Until then it's America as usual: Loggerheads...lots and lots of being at , being in and continuous Loggerheads.
And the very many bad consequences they create.
1
The New York Times needs to stop racial profiling in their articles and focus instead on objective reporting. This continued lack of responsibility will lead to more aggression in our society.
4
But most of America Racially Profiles as well as Income Profiles People, why can't the New York Times Play the Game so many others do?
That's not FAIR!
That's not FAIR!
1
Black persons living in the City of Los Angeles comprise about 9% of the total population, yet Blacks are responsible for about 53% of the City's homicides. That is a statistic kept by the Los Angeles Times' weekly on-line 'Homicide Report.' It is a staggering statistic that is largely duplicated across the country in places like Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta and New Orleans. The net affect of the 'Black Lives Matter' crusade will be to render Black Americans largely judgment proof in terms of identifying, arresting and prosecuting those responsible for murder.
14
Does this paper also publish the poverty and unemployment rates by race?
2
Mark, with all due respect; you are arguing that since homicides are disproportionally done by blacks, it follows that blackness is the cause for committing homicides. That is the defintion of racism: Black, ergo killer. But you mix cause and effect. As blacks are marginalized in our society, their options to conform are less. For example an arrest and a felony at age 16 most likely will close your pathway to become a doctor, a nurse, a lawyer and will disqualify you for many high paying jobs that are subject of background checks. So in fact the petty crimes done by youths as part of growing up are disproportionally marginalizing place people - aided by the justice system that through a perverse set of incentives targets blacks.
2
None of the police identified in this story claimed to be looking for a murder suspect. Do you believe that the 4th Amendment should not apply to black people? If so kindly explain why.
1
quickly, are we assuming cops know the driver is white or black and then pick on blacks?
what are the chances that driving habit has something to do with being pull over?
and btw, do we have data on hispanics and asians? This world is not just black and white, you know. Hispanics+Asians surely outweight blacks in terms of population percentage now.
what are the chances that driving habit has something to do with being pull over?
and btw, do we have data on hispanics and asians? This world is not just black and white, you know. Hispanics+Asians surely outweight blacks in terms of population percentage now.
5
Hispanics are classified as Blacks because they are not White.
Asians are too low in number to matter.
Americans only sees things in Black & White.
Think about it....
Asians are too low in number to matter.
Americans only sees things in Black & White.
Think about it....
It it more than racial profiling? It is income profiling as well?
If you are a person of color and are driving a nice european sedan, are you just as likely to get pulled over as someone in a less expensive car?
What triggers the police to pull somebody over? Just the color of their skin?
So the police see a black man driving a car and decide to pull him over because of the color of his skin. No other reason?
If you are a person of color and are driving a nice european sedan, are you just as likely to get pulled over as someone in a less expensive car?
What triggers the police to pull somebody over? Just the color of their skin?
So the police see a black man driving a car and decide to pull him over because of the color of his skin. No other reason?
All I know is that a friend of mine, an older black man, was stopped by the police, after he drove me home one night. The only reason was the color of his skin.
1
Try black man driving nice Eurpoean sedan OR any nice car. I recall when in NJ on the NJ Turnpike, before Justice Dept got involved that it would be common to see a well dress black man in a suit sitting on the side of the rode outside of his car during rush hour while his car was being searched.
CRAZY.....
CRAZY.....
1
So it's OK to pull someone over who does not have a nice car? Read the comment from Miles M from Greensboro. He had very nice car. But he was driving it while black.
While reading the lyrics of 'Blowing in the wind ', I really connect with the terrible experiences that the Black folks of this country have endured over many many years .
Really ' How many times must a black man or a black woman have to be humiliated and harassed by the authorities ,be it the policeman or a judge or people working in the housing authorities or the mortgage officers in the banks ,so on and on '?
These things that's happening in the name of policing the people has to end from the top in the form of special concessions to uplift the minorities and put them in charge of the administration .
But what the Black people are experiencing on a day to day basis in any town in America at any given time, is totally outrageous . If the same humiliating experiences the Black communities experience in everyday America , was experienced by the White communities , lot of heads would've rolled by this time.
All the Republican as well as Democratic lawmakers in the Congress and the Senate would've passed the most harshest laws against the policemen as well as the people of Authority in the everyday America.
They would've never tolerated a country where a person like Jim Crow put restrictions on white folks' voting rights . All these senators and congressmen would've have conducted hundreds and thousands of hearings if and when a white folk was stopped just for driving white.
I wonder why this collective punishment on thousands of Black folks for the fault of a few..tkb
Really ' How many times must a black man or a black woman have to be humiliated and harassed by the authorities ,be it the policeman or a judge or people working in the housing authorities or the mortgage officers in the banks ,so on and on '?
These things that's happening in the name of policing the people has to end from the top in the form of special concessions to uplift the minorities and put them in charge of the administration .
But what the Black people are experiencing on a day to day basis in any town in America at any given time, is totally outrageous . If the same humiliating experiences the Black communities experience in everyday America , was experienced by the White communities , lot of heads would've rolled by this time.
All the Republican as well as Democratic lawmakers in the Congress and the Senate would've passed the most harshest laws against the policemen as well as the people of Authority in the everyday America.
They would've never tolerated a country where a person like Jim Crow put restrictions on white folks' voting rights . All these senators and congressmen would've have conducted hundreds and thousands of hearings if and when a white folk was stopped just for driving white.
I wonder why this collective punishment on thousands of Black folks for the fault of a few..tkb
5
So true and well said!
And these Americans have been putting up with this from fellow Americans for 250 years, every single day in so many ways and shapes and forms , from family breakups , incarceration, Schooling, opportunity ...There actually would be thousands from the nuanced to the blatant.
Did I mention why the Americans who are treating their fellow Americans so badly in so many ways are doing this?
I can only think of 2 very ridiculous reasons that have no reason to them, but it's all I got.
1. The Ancestor's of some of the American's behaving so badly towards their Fellow Americans owned Slaves.Those Slaves were the Ancestors of the Americans being treated so badly today (and ever since their ancestors time when they were slaves)
Stupid Reason, I know...in fact you would think they would treat these Fellow Americans REALLY WELL as a result for the embarrassing behaviour of their Slave Owning Ancestors.
The only other thing:
2. The Americans treated badly by other Americans have MORE Melanin in their skin cells which means they can go to the Beach or be outdoors in Summer and not get sunburnt as much as the others would if not wearing sun cream or protection.
That is the ONLY difference between the Abusing Americans and the Abused Americans: a better suntan even without sun exposure because the extra melanin they have gives them brown /dark skin versus the lighter/white skin of the others.
But WHAT would that have to do with anything?
It just makes NO SENSE
And these Americans have been putting up with this from fellow Americans for 250 years, every single day in so many ways and shapes and forms , from family breakups , incarceration, Schooling, opportunity ...There actually would be thousands from the nuanced to the blatant.
Did I mention why the Americans who are treating their fellow Americans so badly in so many ways are doing this?
I can only think of 2 very ridiculous reasons that have no reason to them, but it's all I got.
1. The Ancestor's of some of the American's behaving so badly towards their Fellow Americans owned Slaves.Those Slaves were the Ancestors of the Americans being treated so badly today (and ever since their ancestors time when they were slaves)
Stupid Reason, I know...in fact you would think they would treat these Fellow Americans REALLY WELL as a result for the embarrassing behaviour of their Slave Owning Ancestors.
The only other thing:
2. The Americans treated badly by other Americans have MORE Melanin in their skin cells which means they can go to the Beach or be outdoors in Summer and not get sunburnt as much as the others would if not wearing sun cream or protection.
That is the ONLY difference between the Abusing Americans and the Abused Americans: a better suntan even without sun exposure because the extra melanin they have gives them brown /dark skin versus the lighter/white skin of the others.
But WHAT would that have to do with anything?
It just makes NO SENSE
President Obama, his Justice Department, and the New York Times are undertaking the greatest delegitimization of law enforcement in recent memory. And it is working. Police officers all over the country are getting the message: Back off, don't risk a law suit or the loss of your career. Instead, just let the crime happen, don't interfere, file a report, and then wait for the next one.
12
Joseph,
I think you are confused...if the Police are getting the message and back off...the Crime WON'T HAPPEN and the Innocent Victim won't be dead, the Cop won't have to lie and there will not be a law suit!
Everyone's a Winner!
PLUS...The Police will now be freed up to actually go after real Criminals and solve Real problems.
They might even consider going after Gangs, Illegal Weapons and Drug Networks...you know, the stuff we never hear about ,because Police haven't had time to get to... them being so busy as they have been with pesky Civilians with cracked license plate holders, plastic guns and confusing waistbands that cause so much angst.
Time for some real Policing.
I think you are confused...if the Police are getting the message and back off...the Crime WON'T HAPPEN and the Innocent Victim won't be dead, the Cop won't have to lie and there will not be a law suit!
Everyone's a Winner!
PLUS...The Police will now be freed up to actually go after real Criminals and solve Real problems.
They might even consider going after Gangs, Illegal Weapons and Drug Networks...you know, the stuff we never hear about ,because Police haven't had time to get to... them being so busy as they have been with pesky Civilians with cracked license plate holders, plastic guns and confusing waistbands that cause so much angst.
Time for some real Policing.
1
If cops are proactive, they use whatever legal means are available to detect crime. If cops are reactive, they don't intervene until crimes are committed. Statistically, proactive policing involves more stops of blacks. That's pretty much what you need to know. And what you need to decide is whether you prefer proactive or reactive policing. That's the core issue. The race issue gets the headline -- it has overwhelmed the core issue. That is a shame. If you and your neighbors want the police to investigate suspicious stuff, that should be local police policy. If the next neighborhood wants the opposite, that should guide the police there. The decision is ours. Let us make it.
1
The FBI director should read this article.
I am boycotting the University of Chicago, where I went to college, because they asked him to speak there.
I am boycotting the University of Chicago, where I went to college, because they asked him to speak there.
1
I saw a man lying face down in a subway station late one night this week. There were two men who appeared to be homeless sitting near him. I've seen officers from our precinct treat a sick homeless man like an animal after someone called for help for him. After ascertaining that he was breathing, I hated making the choice last week not to call an ambulance, as the police would no doubt be the ones to deal with him. We can't separate human beings into categories "worthy" of our help or not. Neither should the police be empowered to make such a distinction.
3
I wish police officers would stop people of all races more frequently for improperly secured loads. It's a huge safety hazard. I'll never forget driving down the freeway at 65 mph and seeing a queen-size mattress hurtling towards my windshield. The police in my area seem blind to all the people driving around will all manner of tenuously secured hazards.
1
Before we have color blind behavior by the police we also need color blind behavior by the population. In just a walk of six minutes in a mostly white and Asian neighborhood, I see someone spitting on the sidewalk. A little later, a motorist failing to yield to pedestrians. Both were black males.
If you want to solve a problem you do have to look at both sides. I can see by the postings that many non-racists with their eyes open are frustrated at the behavior of liberals who persist in looking at only half the picture.
If you want to solve a problem you do have to look at both sides. I can see by the postings that many non-racists with their eyes open are frustrated at the behavior of liberals who persist in looking at only half the picture.
5
Wow, Rohit! That is incredibly powerful evidence that blacks commit far more crime than other races! You saw a guy spit on the sidewalk and another one not yield?! Stop the presses, we have some solid data now that points to the solution!
3
I saw 3 non-whites spitting in a parking lot a couple of days ago? Your point is what? People just don't even get their racism and biases and that's the problem.
1
I'm not surprised that Raleigh leads the pack in NC for racial profiling.
A black professional woman I know recently bought a new Jaguar from a local dealer in Raleigh and was driving down Capital Blvd, the main drag through the city with 30 day temporary tag on the vehicle. As she was driving along below the speed limit and minding her own business a white Raleigh police officer stopped her without giving any reason and asked to see the registration paperwork on the vehicle along with her driver's license. Shortly after two other squad cars pulled up. After apparently running a check on her license and checking with the DMV the cop called the dealership to see if all was proper. She was called shortly thereafter by her salesman at the dealership and informed of the cop's call. After about half and hour the cops let her go without so much as an apology.
This was obviously an illegal stop and it happens quite often to black folks in NC. They call the offense DWB- driving while black. I guess she's lucky she wasn't smoking a cigarette.
A black professional woman I know recently bought a new Jaguar from a local dealer in Raleigh and was driving down Capital Blvd, the main drag through the city with 30 day temporary tag on the vehicle. As she was driving along below the speed limit and minding her own business a white Raleigh police officer stopped her without giving any reason and asked to see the registration paperwork on the vehicle along with her driver's license. Shortly after two other squad cars pulled up. After apparently running a check on her license and checking with the DMV the cop called the dealership to see if all was proper. She was called shortly thereafter by her salesman at the dealership and informed of the cop's call. After about half and hour the cops let her go without so much as an apology.
This was obviously an illegal stop and it happens quite often to black folks in NC. They call the offense DWB- driving while black. I guess she's lucky she wasn't smoking a cigarette.
11
These stories are contrived. I don't believe for an instant that police were planting marijuana on anyone. By the way getting pulled over for expired plates is a rather common occurrence that has nothing to do with race, when I was young it happened to me more than once.
3
Nice to finally see these permutations of racism finally being exposed to the light of day. This recognition is merely one very small step forward, but a necessary one.
2
Why do police officers who commit these crimes only get two days suspension? They should be fired from the force and, in some cases, face criminal charges for tasering and causing injury.
4
"Two police officers pulled them over for minor infractions that included expired plates and failing to hang a flag from a load of scrap metal in the pickup’s bed. But what happened next was nothing like a routine traffic stop.
Uncertain whether to get out of the car, Rufus Scales said, he reached to restrain his brother from opening the door."
Why is this incident being mentioned? The two brothers appear to have triggered the officers to react to the one brothers action of attempting to get out of the car., which changes the entire scenario for the police.
First of all people should know that during a routine traffic stop all persons in the vehicle should remain in the car until otherwise instructed by an officer, since an officer does not know what is going on inside the vehicle. So any attempt to get out of the vehicle is a red flag for an officer.
How much more disconnect will there be from people who either blindly or deliberately will not see their role in this issue.
The NY Times just published an article concerning how violent crime is on the rise, and they blame the police for not being aggressive enough... Well it is a shame that people cannot figure out why the police are apprehensive at times when articles like this make matters worse and people buy into an inflated narrative of police brutality....
Uncertain whether to get out of the car, Rufus Scales said, he reached to restrain his brother from opening the door."
Why is this incident being mentioned? The two brothers appear to have triggered the officers to react to the one brothers action of attempting to get out of the car., which changes the entire scenario for the police.
First of all people should know that during a routine traffic stop all persons in the vehicle should remain in the car until otherwise instructed by an officer, since an officer does not know what is going on inside the vehicle. So any attempt to get out of the vehicle is a red flag for an officer.
How much more disconnect will there be from people who either blindly or deliberately will not see their role in this issue.
The NY Times just published an article concerning how violent crime is on the rise, and they blame the police for not being aggressive enough... Well it is a shame that people cannot figure out why the police are apprehensive at times when articles like this make matters worse and people buy into an inflated narrative of police brutality....
6
I'm white, but when I see clear evidence of police departments discriminating against my fellow citizens who happen to be black, I lose all respect and faith in the uniform. Want to regain my respect? Have the guts to look within, admit the problems, and work constructively with the citizens you are bound to serve to fix the problems.
13
This is why people objected to FBI head Comey's statement that police may be slacking off because they are afraid of being held accountable for their actions. These are not isolated events. It's institutionalized mistreatment of African-Americans on a grand scale. It's many police getting away with criminal behavior (or what should be) and causing great harm to innocent people.
The new police chief in Fayetteville proves effective changes can be made to treat blacks fairly. Those who resist or try to justify racist behavior (whether conscious or not) should be fired.
The new police chief in Fayetteville proves effective changes can be made to treat blacks fairly. Those who resist or try to justify racist behavior (whether conscious or not) should be fired.
5
This paper has reported two different stories with diametrical opposing impressions of policing in the African American community.
In one "F.B.I. Chief Links Scrutiny of Police With Rise in Violent Crime" by Michael S. Schmidt and Matt Apuzzo Oct 23, 2015."
In the other we see "The Disproportionate Risks of Driving While Black:An examination of traffic stops and arrests in Greensboro, N.C., uncovered wide racial differences in measure after measure of police conduct."
The only fair conclusion is that most white police forces are unable to properly police themselves in black neighborhoods, unless properly trained to do so. And the absence of police abuse data that your reporters found with great difficulty is a low priority for our Federal Bureau of Investigation to investigate.
Pres. Obama can't and won't fire Comey. But a Congressional panel like the Benghazi one ought to ask the FBI director why does it not have records of racial differences in police stops and the stop dispositions?
In one "F.B.I. Chief Links Scrutiny of Police With Rise in Violent Crime" by Michael S. Schmidt and Matt Apuzzo Oct 23, 2015."
In the other we see "The Disproportionate Risks of Driving While Black:An examination of traffic stops and arrests in Greensboro, N.C., uncovered wide racial differences in measure after measure of police conduct."
The only fair conclusion is that most white police forces are unable to properly police themselves in black neighborhoods, unless properly trained to do so. And the absence of police abuse data that your reporters found with great difficulty is a low priority for our Federal Bureau of Investigation to investigate.
Pres. Obama can't and won't fire Comey. But a Congressional panel like the Benghazi one ought to ask the FBI director why does it not have records of racial differences in police stops and the stop dispositions?
1
I guess we should go back to the old-fashioned policing of the crime-ridden 70s and 80s, when the police just sat in their radio cars, waited for a report that a crime had been committed, took some notes from witnesses or victims, filed a report, and then waited for the next one to happen.
1
This piece is a mix of anecdotes and poor data analysis. The only way you can determine if there is a racist element to these traffic stops is to control for other relevant factors -- like crime rates, income, education, age,etc. Without including those factors this "analysis" is worthless.
The authors mention some of these other factors in passing but then plunge ahead anyway and just present the data for race. Now, that may not bother the typical NYTimes reader who either doesn't understand data analysis or doesn't care -- as long as the "analysis" fits their political views -- but the rest of us know better and do care.
Unfortunately, the violent crime rate for Blacks is much higher than that for Whites. For example, the murder rate for Blacks is roughly 6x that of Whites. So, knowing that, before I suggested that disparities in encounters with police are due to racism, I'd control for crime rates. Presenting data on police activities by race is meaningless without taking crime rates into account.
To be fair, it is possible that the discrepancy in traffic stops may have something to do with racism. However, the authors have not made their case. Either they -- and the editors -- don't understand how to analyze data, or they simply wanted to make a political point. I suggest the Times hire unbiased, professional statisticians to either conduct analyses if they want to convince anyone outside of their progressive base.
The authors mention some of these other factors in passing but then plunge ahead anyway and just present the data for race. Now, that may not bother the typical NYTimes reader who either doesn't understand data analysis or doesn't care -- as long as the "analysis" fits their political views -- but the rest of us know better and do care.
Unfortunately, the violent crime rate for Blacks is much higher than that for Whites. For example, the murder rate for Blacks is roughly 6x that of Whites. So, knowing that, before I suggested that disparities in encounters with police are due to racism, I'd control for crime rates. Presenting data on police activities by race is meaningless without taking crime rates into account.
To be fair, it is possible that the discrepancy in traffic stops may have something to do with racism. However, the authors have not made their case. Either they -- and the editors -- don't understand how to analyze data, or they simply wanted to make a political point. I suggest the Times hire unbiased, professional statisticians to either conduct analyses if they want to convince anyone outside of their progressive base.
8
Fortunately our justice system comes equipped with concepts such as the 4th Amendment, probable cause and individualized suspicion. That way law enforcement can focus on individual actions and actual crimes, instead of just harassing, beating, insulting and arresting every black person that they see. I know that this might be difficult for some police officers and white citizens to grok but it's really not a good thing to arrest people without reason.
2
I've been teaching quantitative methods and conducting data analysis decades, and I disagree with your premise. How exactly is education and Income supposed to account for differential rates of traffic stops by race, especially when we're looking at one specific jurisdiction, Greensboro? Controlling for potential sources of spurious causation only makes sense if you can present a theoretical argument for why that factor might apply to the dependent variable. Where's the theory that explains how educational levels should determine the rates at which people are stopped for traffic violations? Or, worse, why blacks are charged with crimes like marijuana possession at considerably higher rates than whites though their actual rates of usage are essentially identical?
You cite crime rates as a potential source of spurious causation. How does that work exactly? Are blacks likely to be driving more often in areas where crime rates are high and thus more likely to be pulled over without justification? Do you honestly believe that if we limited the analysis to jurisdictions with average crime rates the results would be substantially different? I don't, and I'd be happy to use the available data to test that hypothesis. In fact, I'd wager blacks are more likely to be pulled over if they are seen driving in white neighborhoods where, to accept your argument, crime rates would be lower. What do you suppose the rate of traffic stops for whites in black neighborhoods might be?
You cite crime rates as a potential source of spurious causation. How does that work exactly? Are blacks likely to be driving more often in areas where crime rates are high and thus more likely to be pulled over without justification? Do you honestly believe that if we limited the analysis to jurisdictions with average crime rates the results would be substantially different? I don't, and I'd be happy to use the available data to test that hypothesis. In fact, I'd wager blacks are more likely to be pulled over if they are seen driving in white neighborhoods where, to accept your argument, crime rates would be lower. What do you suppose the rate of traffic stops for whites in black neighborhoods might be?
3
Really, all those commenters parroting various statistics about the disparity in violent crime committed by African Americans, could anyone explain their relevance to traffic stops?? How is harrassing drivers related to stopping murders? Do the police expect to find serial killers or uncover murder conspiracies while controlling drivers?
As far as I can tell, the police is either punishing infractions to traffic law or trying to find evidence of drugs. It is a fact that Whites and Blacks use drugs at similar rates. We have no evidence on a possible disparity between Whites and Blacks regarding respect of traffic laws, but any honest person will admit that almost everyone routinely disregard one traffic law or the other. If the affluent whites I knew on the East coast had been stopped for every single time they ignored the speed limits or a stop sign, they would have been outraged. So for the ACTUAL realistic goals of a traffic stop, there is no reason whatsoever to expect such racial disparities.
I have lived and taught in New Haven: Yale student drivers were extremely poor drivers, never respected the speed limits on their frequent drives to NYC or Boston etc., and routinely used drugs. Yes, they were much, much less likely to murder someone than the Black New Haven residents, but why should that have any impact on traffic stops? What's your logic here?
As far as I can tell, the police is either punishing infractions to traffic law or trying to find evidence of drugs. It is a fact that Whites and Blacks use drugs at similar rates. We have no evidence on a possible disparity between Whites and Blacks regarding respect of traffic laws, but any honest person will admit that almost everyone routinely disregard one traffic law or the other. If the affluent whites I knew on the East coast had been stopped for every single time they ignored the speed limits or a stop sign, they would have been outraged. So for the ACTUAL realistic goals of a traffic stop, there is no reason whatsoever to expect such racial disparities.
I have lived and taught in New Haven: Yale student drivers were extremely poor drivers, never respected the speed limits on their frequent drives to NYC or Boston etc., and routinely used drugs. Yes, they were much, much less likely to murder someone than the Black New Haven residents, but why should that have any impact on traffic stops? What's your logic here?
4
Jim Comey says that police are afraid to leave their cars fearing damning videos of violent encounters with citizens. Black Americans are afraid to leave their houses fearing violence by police. Over 800 persons were shot and killed by police this year so far. In the same period, just over 50 police were killed this year in violent confrontations with citizens. So, who has more to fear?
8
Say Virgil
Do they teach math there in NYC? there are say, 320 million citizens, less than a million cops. The risk rate for a cop being killed by a citizen is roughly 20 times greater than for a citizen to be killed by a cop. You have to control for the differences in the base populations.
And, most cop killings are justified homicides. Conversely, cop killings are almost al murders.
Get your math straightened up!
Do they teach math there in NYC? there are say, 320 million citizens, less than a million cops. The risk rate for a cop being killed by a citizen is roughly 20 times greater than for a citizen to be killed by a cop. You have to control for the differences in the base populations.
And, most cop killings are justified homicides. Conversely, cop killings are almost al murders.
Get your math straightened up!
1
Not a very bright comment, Virgil.
I'd really love to see if we can break this down by household income, because I have a sense this is about race when it can be, but it is also about class. I say this because I grew up in Maine, in a time when there were just about 2 non-white people within 50 miles - French Canadian descent made you a minority. I saw all the exact same thing described in this article happen to poor white people. This scares me, because it means we have accepted that our police and courts systematically abuse the least able to defend themselves in our society:a violation of the social contract.
I have to think we can do something about this, from testalying (google it) to various differences in the application of the law, there has to be some practice where we can keep us all safe, but not abuse people. There has to be!
But, I, like I imagine so many others, wonder why police, judges, prosecutors, and others inside the system are not doing more to fix this?!?! Do they not see that at some point in the near future anything any cop says in court will be treated with such suspicion they might as well not bother? How many crimes will go unpunished in this case? Why is it in their professional best interest, or that of society, to enable and allow this to occur? If everyone ends up hating the police and they have no more support in the community, what does that say about us? Nothing good as all.
NY Times, also follow this up with asking insiders what they think, I'd love to read that article.
I have to think we can do something about this, from testalying (google it) to various differences in the application of the law, there has to be some practice where we can keep us all safe, but not abuse people. There has to be!
But, I, like I imagine so many others, wonder why police, judges, prosecutors, and others inside the system are not doing more to fix this?!?! Do they not see that at some point in the near future anything any cop says in court will be treated with such suspicion they might as well not bother? How many crimes will go unpunished in this case? Why is it in their professional best interest, or that of society, to enable and allow this to occur? If everyone ends up hating the police and they have no more support in the community, what does that say about us? Nothing good as all.
NY Times, also follow this up with asking insiders what they think, I'd love to read that article.
3
We need to legalize drugs in this country. Yes, they're bad. So is alcohol and cigarettes but it's a primary component of law enforcement activity. The justification for much of these searches for contraband goes away if it's legal. DUI is another matter entirely but should have objective standards for pulling someone over. The other thing not mentioned in this article is whether Greensboro police are required to wear lapel cameras. This should be a mandatory aspect to help reduce police abuse of power, and conversely to clearly prove when perpetrators have acted unlawfully.
2
"Violence is rare, but routine traffic stops more frequently lead to searches, arrests and the opening of a trapdoor into the criminal justice system that can have a lifelong impact, especially for those without the financial or other resources to negotiate it."
So basically this is stop and frisk and people are upset about it being a "trapdoor" because they're caught with illegal drugs or guns, or an expired or suspended driver's license. Here is a free tip, don't walk around with illegal drugs or guns, or drive with an expired or suspended driver's license when you know that you are unfairly targeted for stop and frisk.
So basically this is stop and frisk and people are upset about it being a "trapdoor" because they're caught with illegal drugs or guns, or an expired or suspended driver's license. Here is a free tip, don't walk around with illegal drugs or guns, or drive with an expired or suspended driver's license when you know that you are unfairly targeted for stop and frisk.
6
It is clear that many of the police are mentally unfit for the job. How about psychological profiling for police candidates and as an ongoing part of the job? To the extent it is being done, it is not working. Look at their email and facebook to see what they are up to. Many employers do this today for jobs that have nothing to do with our safety. Get rid of all the bullies, thugs and bigots. How about a national "Do Not Hire" list for police candidates? One violent incident against an innocent civilian, never work again. We are in more danger from out of control police than Al Queda.
2
I have done extensive work with police and have had many positive experiences (and a few negative ones).
While teaching for a local college (I taught the homeless at a homeless shelter), I gave a male African-American student a reading textbook (a rather small reading primer textbook [containing both text and graphics]). He thumbed through the book and pushed it back to me and said, "I can't read this book". I inquired as to the reason he couldn't read the book. He responded, "Because the police is in it". That was back in the early 1990s (and it was in Greensboro, North Carolina).
I am convinced that some police are "trained to be mean". Approximately three months ago I was traveling a major Interstate Highway when a vehicle came across the median and hit a vehicle traveling in the opposite direction. Two women in the vehicle that came across the median were thrown completely out of their vehicle and lay (on the pavement) seriously injured. We did what we could to help them. Local fire department emergency personnel arrived first. They were very nice to all of us. Then the police arrived. The police began taping the scene off and said to us (rather nastily), "GET BACK". We had been trying to help the victims. All they (he) had to do was nicely ask us to move back; rather, he spoke to us in a manner that was very demeaning. That was (in my opinion) improper police procedure (and I believe it was the result of improper police training).
While teaching for a local college (I taught the homeless at a homeless shelter), I gave a male African-American student a reading textbook (a rather small reading primer textbook [containing both text and graphics]). He thumbed through the book and pushed it back to me and said, "I can't read this book". I inquired as to the reason he couldn't read the book. He responded, "Because the police is in it". That was back in the early 1990s (and it was in Greensboro, North Carolina).
I am convinced that some police are "trained to be mean". Approximately three months ago I was traveling a major Interstate Highway when a vehicle came across the median and hit a vehicle traveling in the opposite direction. Two women in the vehicle that came across the median were thrown completely out of their vehicle and lay (on the pavement) seriously injured. We did what we could to help them. Local fire department emergency personnel arrived first. They were very nice to all of us. Then the police arrived. The police began taping the scene off and said to us (rather nastily), "GET BACK". We had been trying to help the victims. All they (he) had to do was nicely ask us to move back; rather, he spoke to us in a manner that was very demeaning. That was (in my opinion) improper police procedure (and I believe it was the result of improper police training).
5
I agree wholeheartedly. I think a lot of officers have trouble projecting authority without being unnecessarily rude.
1
My blond and blue eyed husband and I were stopped countless times in the early 70s when we lived upstate NY and also when driving across the country, even though we knew to never go below the Mason Dixon line.
My husband had long hair and in those times, that was reason enough to stop us. (Stores would also refuse to serve him because of his hair, so it is especially ironic that this look became the default for men in Red States, but back then I would be the one to go in.)
My husband always drove, so when I saw a police car coming towards us, I would stand my toddler son up on my knees. That seems to have made us look less 'criminal'.
We quickly learned that the first thing that should be done is your hands should be on the steering wheel, no other movement. Just sit there and wait.
Your license, registration, and insurance card should be clipped inside the visor above the driver's seat, so you do not have to reach down, or worse, open the glove compartment, which would allow the officer to search it.
Tell the officer before any movement, as while there are some 'bad' officers, mostly there are frightened officers who do not know if a routine traffic stop might end their lives.
Always be very careful around anyone with a gun, especially a scared person with a gun.
My husband had long hair and in those times, that was reason enough to stop us. (Stores would also refuse to serve him because of his hair, so it is especially ironic that this look became the default for men in Red States, but back then I would be the one to go in.)
My husband always drove, so when I saw a police car coming towards us, I would stand my toddler son up on my knees. That seems to have made us look less 'criminal'.
We quickly learned that the first thing that should be done is your hands should be on the steering wheel, no other movement. Just sit there and wait.
Your license, registration, and insurance card should be clipped inside the visor above the driver's seat, so you do not have to reach down, or worse, open the glove compartment, which would allow the officer to search it.
Tell the officer before any movement, as while there are some 'bad' officers, mostly there are frightened officers who do not know if a routine traffic stop might end their lives.
Always be very careful around anyone with a gun, especially a scared person with a gun.
9
I don't want to diminish the message of this piece in any way, but I would suggest that if anyone wants to see a fair and equitable distribution of moving violations and traffic stops they should come to Flatbush in Brooklyn, specifically Coney Island Avenue between Cotelyou Rd and Kings Highway. There you will see police officers stationed on a daily basis stopping motorists of every stripe, morning noon and night, as if there is nothing more important to do in the borough than hand out violations. As a life long resident of Brooklyn, I can say with some authority, that I have not seen such a focused effort to enforce traffic laws almost anywhere else.
2
I am disgusted by the media continuing to beat up on cops. There are a minority of bad cops, agreed; there's bad of every single profession out there. The vast majority are good, decent, law-abiding people risking their lives to keep us safe. I think police departments have work to do to weed out this minority and continue improving training and community relations, but I for one appreciate their service.
3
Don't know why you are disgusted. We are talking about actions that have lasting impact on people's lives. If, IF the police would hold their own accountable we would not be here. Unfortunately their default mode is to protect their own even when their own commits criminal acts.
Systemic and institutionalized racism is real and have real consequences.
Be disgusted because in the land of the free and the just - the free and the just apparently applies only to some.
Systemic and institutionalized racism is real and have real consequences.
Be disgusted because in the land of the free and the just - the free and the just apparently applies only to some.
It is my opinion that many of the police officers that are committing these offenses against citizens are doing what they were trained to do. We need to fire police chiefs, trainers and supervisors until the situation is corrected and policing returns to the wonderful public service status it so richly deserves. We need the police.
4
Probably better to focus on how to get existing police and police departments to act responsibly. A good starting point would be to demand and enforce accountability. Firing lots of people only makes sense if you are certain you can hire a new group who are better. No sane person will take a job vacancy that was created by a wholesale firing. Accountability is achieved by training, making it easier to behave well than not, rewarding appropriate behavior, finding and fixing lapses.... Being a police officer, trainer, or supervisor has to be a job that provides real rewards to the job holders while also providing real benefits for all of the citizens they should be working to protect.
I find it funny that the results of this study are some sort of major revelation. Anybody who has grown up in an urban area in any part of the US knows that blacks are routinely stopped for absurd reasons just for shakedown purposes.
In my lifetime, probably over 80% of the time I have been pulled over, I happened to be traveling with any one of the handful of black friends I have. It's not some sort of great mystery. It's basic racism and social profiling that goes on in law enforcement, and sadly will continue to go on irrespective of how many studies statistically prove this "phenomenon".
In my lifetime, probably over 80% of the time I have been pulled over, I happened to be traveling with any one of the handful of black friends I have. It's not some sort of great mystery. It's basic racism and social profiling that goes on in law enforcement, and sadly will continue to go on irrespective of how many studies statistically prove this "phenomenon".
5
The journalists for this article should spend some time studying statistics, so as to not let their own emotions cloud their judgement.
The data shows that black drivers are searched more, because they are far more likely to have contraband. Take Torrington, Conn. as an example, chances black drivers searched had contraband 0.8 x chance black searched 5 = 4. That says based on this data, among all those searched, blacks are FOUR times (that's a lot more than I expect) most likely to have contraband.
If the police were truly racists targeting blacks, the chance black drivers had contraband should be 0.2x not 0.8x.
I have to say, based on this data, the police are doing a heck of a job identifying those who are suspicious. More rigorous statistically analysis is needed. But chances are, it will lead to the same conclusion as mine, not that of the journalists.
The data shows that black drivers are searched more, because they are far more likely to have contraband. Take Torrington, Conn. as an example, chances black drivers searched had contraband 0.8 x chance black searched 5 = 4. That says based on this data, among all those searched, blacks are FOUR times (that's a lot more than I expect) most likely to have contraband.
If the police were truly racists targeting blacks, the chance black drivers had contraband should be 0.2x not 0.8x.
I have to say, based on this data, the police are doing a heck of a job identifying those who are suspicious. More rigorous statistically analysis is needed. But chances are, it will lead to the same conclusion as mine, not that of the journalists.
6
K.H. your math is nonsense. Applied to you if rolled black dice 36 times and got 6 ones, while rolling white dice 6 times and got 2 ones: The chance for black drivers "having contraband" would be one half but your math would give 3 for blacks and 2 for whites and you would say the black dice is weighted towards ones.
Your prejudices have led you to mangle your logic to agree with the expectations you have. It is you who needs to "study statistics."
Your prejudices have led you to mangle your logic to agree with the expectations you have. It is you who needs to "study statistics."
2
If I have prejudice, it'd be against racism.
You seem utterly confused. Using your numbers 36/6, blacks are 6 times as likely to be stopped. and 2/6, that is 1/3 as likely to have contraband.
In order to have the ratio of Torrington, Conn, you need:
Stop: 35 black, 7 white
Contraband change p (say p=0.1):
Black with contraband: 35*0.1*0.8 = 2.8
White with contraband: 7*0.1 = 0.7
NEVER let truth get in to way of your emotions, right?
You seem utterly confused. Using your numbers 36/6, blacks are 6 times as likely to be stopped. and 2/6, that is 1/3 as likely to have contraband.
In order to have the ratio of Torrington, Conn, you need:
Stop: 35 black, 7 white
Contraband change p (say p=0.1):
Black with contraband: 35*0.1*0.8 = 2.8
White with contraband: 7*0.1 = 0.7
NEVER let truth get in to way of your emotions, right?
2
It is the 21st Century, and yet look at us!!!! A society such as that in George Orwell's novel, 1984, grows from within, that's clear now. America doesn't need to lose a war to disappear. It disappears by losing itself. The Supreme Court ruling on random searches makes that clear. Now we know we can have a Bill of Rights but at the same time we can lose it through interpretations that whittle it down to nothing. Our post 9/11 world is one in which the feds have militarized local police with equipment meant for fighting wars, so that the cops can abuse us with more force and power than previously. Our reaction to the revelation brought to light by the pervasive presence of cell phones with video cameras, to the birth of the militarized police state, and to the shriveling of our civil rights, is going to define who we are in a big way; do we learn from Orwell or embrace his vision as inalterable fate?
3
Most people, even law-abiding/never been arrested ones, have a visceral reaction when flashing blue lights and a siren are directly behind them on the road. Slight elevation in heart rate or blood pressure. We have a primal, fearful reaction, which is normal, I guess. Can't imagine what goes through the mind and body of a young person of color. I'd say panic would be an understatement.
So the fight and/or flight response is instilled in the basic human instinct.
Cops should know this. Right? Basically they don't seem to care anymore.
We're all fair game, really we are. The taser and pepper spraying must be used rarely if ever. Not on the elderly, handicapped, pregnant women, homeless, vets and children. Disgraceful, cowardly, evil and overly abused.
So the fight and/or flight response is instilled in the basic human instinct.
Cops should know this. Right? Basically they don't seem to care anymore.
We're all fair game, really we are. The taser and pepper spraying must be used rarely if ever. Not on the elderly, handicapped, pregnant women, homeless, vets and children. Disgraceful, cowardly, evil and overly abused.
5
I am an older, conservative (in appearance) gentleman with a white beard who makes his living as a college professor, and I find every encounter I've had with the police to be unsettling, ranging from a traffic stop to being the person to call them regarding suspicious activity in my neighborhood. In every case, there is an attitude of arrogance and superiority which astonishes me. These are public servants, and I am a law-abiding member of the public, so where does this bullying, superior attitude come from? I can only imagine how hard it must be for people whose skin is black or who may be from a lower socio-economic status. We are in need of wholesale, national police reform in this country, and yet how often do you see this addressed by any national figures, including those running for office on either side of the political divide?
14
Perhaps if more people like you contacted your elected officials to say you care, then they would start to pay attention.
1
I am neither white nor black. I suppose there must be a significant degree of racial prejudice in the US, based on what I have seen, experienced, and read about.
However, the data seem to support the idea that searching blacks at a higher frequency is justified. For example, in Torrington, Conn, blacks are searched at a frequency 5x that of whites and are 0.8x as likely to have contraband. If the increased rate were explained by bias alone, I would expect blacks to be 0.2x as likely (or 5x less likely) of having contraband.
Does anyone else see this, or am I wrong?
However, the data seem to support the idea that searching blacks at a higher frequency is justified. For example, in Torrington, Conn, blacks are searched at a frequency 5x that of whites and are 0.8x as likely to have contraband. If the increased rate were explained by bias alone, I would expect blacks to be 0.2x as likely (or 5x less likely) of having contraband.
Does anyone else see this, or am I wrong?
2
No you are wrong. The fraction found with contraband is the relevant measure not the total number. Say that the likelihood for all people is the same at one in 5. If I search a hundred blacks I will see 20 carrying contraband. If I search 20 whites because fewer are searched I will see 4 carrying contraband. If I had searched a the same number of whites I would have also seen 20 carrying contraband - I didn't get the same number because I didn't check the same number.
2
In order to effectively police (or approach any problem for that matter) it is necessary to prioritize resources and identify potential problems. I guess you could call this methodology "profiling." It is really unfortunate and unfair that many law abiding black males are mistakenly suspected of criminal activity and subject to extra police scrutiny. Apparently that is a function of the fact that black males are disproportionately far more likely to commit crimes, particularly homicide, than whites and women.
It is also ridiculous to expect the cops to perform equal opportunity, blind policing. The police have a pretty good idea of what a criminal looks like. And the police criminal profile is hardly limited to race. Behavior, clothing, age, neighborhood, time of day all enter into what is more likely to coincide with criminal activity. Give the cops a break. They are hardly the biggest problem facing American blacks.
It is also ridiculous to expect the cops to perform equal opportunity, blind policing. The police have a pretty good idea of what a criminal looks like. And the police criminal profile is hardly limited to race. Behavior, clothing, age, neighborhood, time of day all enter into what is more likely to coincide with criminal activity. Give the cops a break. They are hardly the biggest problem facing American blacks.
That widespread human and civil rights violations like these have been hiding in plain sight in the USA for decades shows how thoroughly corrupt we are as a society. Like in fascist Europe in the 20th century, these things only happen when there is widespread support for human rights violations among the people and their authorities.
That studies like these are only being made public now shows how the media has been complicit in perpetrating and perpetuating the abuses. The sad fact is the American public is so stupefied by the media in its quest for the almighty dollar that it's likely not much will change anytime soon.
In our country these human rights violations are often racially motivated, but racist corruption is just another form of a larger corruption. Many poor whites also get caught up in and are destroyed by the USA's "criminal justice" system. In many cases the system is criminal in how it treats human beings who just happen, usually by no choice of their own, to live under an often unforgiving, vindictive and vicious American jurisdiction.
The often mouthed "it's worse in other countries why immigrants want to come to the USA" is propaganda, the undocumented often escape the harsh scrutiny lower income Americans do as they are "off the grid" so to speak, and can't be processed and abused by the system. It does appear that it is better to be an undocumented immigrant in America than be a lower income American citizen, a minority citizen or otherwise.
That studies like these are only being made public now shows how the media has been complicit in perpetrating and perpetuating the abuses. The sad fact is the American public is so stupefied by the media in its quest for the almighty dollar that it's likely not much will change anytime soon.
In our country these human rights violations are often racially motivated, but racist corruption is just another form of a larger corruption. Many poor whites also get caught up in and are destroyed by the USA's "criminal justice" system. In many cases the system is criminal in how it treats human beings who just happen, usually by no choice of their own, to live under an often unforgiving, vindictive and vicious American jurisdiction.
The often mouthed "it's worse in other countries why immigrants want to come to the USA" is propaganda, the undocumented often escape the harsh scrutiny lower income Americans do as they are "off the grid" so to speak, and can't be processed and abused by the system. It does appear that it is better to be an undocumented immigrant in America than be a lower income American citizen, a minority citizen or otherwise.
2
I think it was Mark Twain who said there are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. This is certainly a case where statistics, dressed up with a few anecdotes, appear to prove something that is not there. The Times found that Greensboro's Black population of 39% accounted for 54% of the traffic stops and then takes it for granted that this 15% disparity is (a) extraordinary, and (b) the result of racism. Two other factors that could easily account for the difference are (a) the greater police presence in higher crime areas (more cops more hours of the day), and (b) the possibility (unexamined by the Times) that due to economic or cultural factors, more Black people are driving cars with "regulatory or equipment violations" (eg, expired plates, missing tail lights, etc). I suspect strongly that if these were to be factored out, the 15% disparity would disappear.
9
spot on. One wonders if the writers (and editors) know better and don't care, or are simply ignorant regarding how to analyze data.
I think the root of many social problems is poverty. When I lived in the Upper West Side of Manhattan I saw the police stopping poor Hispanic pedestrians four times, the so called stop-and-frisk, for just waking down the street and it seemed to me it happened because they looked like poor people. They were not treated harshly but I still think it was a disrespect of their rights because they were not committing any crime. By that time I had the impression that it was part of the illegal immigration issue. But regarding this article, I am wondering how a black person who is articulated, sounds like an educated person and drives a nice car will be treated during a stop for any traffic violation, grave or not. I may be wrong but I doubt that he will be treated with disrespect unless he disrespects police authority. In the end I think race plays a role in how people is dealt with and treated with disrespect or lack of consideration but specially when the person is associated with low class or low social status. That bad treatment does not come from police only. I comes from many segments of society. I think the strongest bias is toward poverty, not race.
2
The article points out that "national surveys show that blacks and whites use marijuana at virtually the same rate, but black residents here are charged with the sole offense of possession of minor amounts of marijuana five times as often as white residents are." However, virtually no one gets arrested for using marijuana. The surveys ask respondents if they have used marijuana sometime in the past month or year. A person who took a whiff off a marijuana cigarette passed around at a party answers a few months ago answers yes to that question. To have any relevance to arrest rates, the surveys would have to ask respondents if they traffic in marijuana or habitually have marijuana in their possession.
2
While it is very clear that we have a systemic problem of bias in our policing against minorities, the problems with our police in America are far more sweeping. Police officers in this country demand a level of respect and acquiescence that they have not earned, are not due. A passing look at these comments, including the officer who made the highly offensive comment "blue lives matter" makes this clearly evident.
Recently my wallet was stolen. Later, a police officer calls me and begins asking questions. The first question out of his mouth is: "Is there anything special about your license." What? He was looking for me to say it was an Enhanced Driver's License, but why ask me a question he knows the answer to? I am not a suspect. He got my phone number from the police report I filed. He was treating me with disrespect because he does not even know how to treat someone with respect. He doesn't know how to interact with the community, and doesn't care.
As long as police officers see themselves as an occupying army, and even the crime victims as potential enemy combatants, we will have problems. We need to fundamentally restructure how we do policing to change this culture.
Recently my wallet was stolen. Later, a police officer calls me and begins asking questions. The first question out of his mouth is: "Is there anything special about your license." What? He was looking for me to say it was an Enhanced Driver's License, but why ask me a question he knows the answer to? I am not a suspect. He got my phone number from the police report I filed. He was treating me with disrespect because he does not even know how to treat someone with respect. He doesn't know how to interact with the community, and doesn't care.
As long as police officers see themselves as an occupying army, and even the crime victims as potential enemy combatants, we will have problems. We need to fundamentally restructure how we do policing to change this culture.
218
Wow. Have you ever known any police officers personally? Your comment shows a pre-bias as bad as any cop who engages in racial profiling. I have a revelation for you: they're human just like the rest of us and the vast majority just want to serve their community. So you find the saying "Blue lives matter" offensive? They are targets everyday and people that vilify them as sub-human have created a mentality where some actually cheer when officers get shot or injured. Yes, we have work to do, but vilifying those men and women who are the thin blue line between civilization and chaos doesn't serve anyone. And before you jump to conclusions, I am not a cop, don't have one in my family and politically am centrist. But I have had the honor of getting to know some people that wear the uniform and am happy to inform you that they are caring humans, not the villains you cast them as.
4
He was trying to verify you information so it gets back to the rightful owner. What you say is shear paranoia.
2
But banks do it also. After I have given them enough information they ask my birth date. Now they know it and I know it. So why ask?
But knowing the birth date increases the chances that I am who I claim to be.
But knowing the birth date increases the chances that I am who I claim to be.
1
I spent several days in Rock Hill, SC last March. My college age son was participating in a track meet. Driving between the interstate and the college, I had to travel down a four lane, divided highway through a commercial strip of dollar stores and gas stations. I was struck by the number of cars pulled over by police. The drivers were all black, though from what I could tell there were more vehicles driven by whites than blacks. The police officers were white. This is only anecdotal observation, but I certainly got the impression of de facto segregation and the oppression of blacks. Oppression is a heavy duty word to describe this, but Rock Hill's economy certainly seemed less than booming. Having to pay needless traffic fines on top of trying to earn a living is oppressive and racially so if blacks are singled out to a greater extent than others. By the way, I am white and was raised in the deep South.
207
I attended Winthrop University in Rock Hill, SC. To my knowledge, African Americans only make up 38 percent of the city's population. York County has an ugly racial history. It was the area that had the highest amount of Klan activity during Reconstruction. It is also the city of the Freedom Riders and Friendship Nine incidents.
1
Seeing this behavior, filming and sharing on social media should be a response to "out the racist behavior." The only way to recognize unjust behavior is to expose it via the media and internet. Thanks for your post "No Name."
1
When police officers use traffic violations as a way to enforce other laws, it is fundamentally unjust. The reasons for police to search vehicles is to find contraband. So here we have set up a system where police officers are encouraged to use laws passed to improve public safety not to improve public safety, but to attempt to search for contraband. Furthermore because contraband is so common, police officers can be assured by pure statistics that they will find some. If a suspect shows the officers the contempt they have earned, he will be reminded that this nation expects absolute acquiescence to the police, and be physically abused.
139
Our nation's police and law enforcement alleged experts have convinced every legislature to change the motor vehicle laws enabling the police to pull people and approach drivers for what used to be secondary offenses! These legislatures have enabled the police stop, approach, obtain 'consent searches' or searches without warrants in order to get the guns and drugs off the streets, at any costs!!!
1
Retired federal prosecutor here. The police have long used the "proactive" justification for making minor traffic stops, and this article clearly establishes that this justification is not supported by the results of such stops. Moreover, how many law abiding black drivers are stopped on their way to their jobs, delayed into being late (or not arriving at all, if accused of "resisting")? I am a white 64 year old female, and if I had to face routine police stops for minor traffic infractions, with the justification that these stops make my community safer, I would be furious, as well as late for many appointments and obligations. I realize that being late is a minor inconvenience compared to being arrested, tased, shot, framed, and/or killed (just watched the revolting video of the Cincinnati murder), but it must nonetheless be another consequence of such aggressive police practices, thus jeopardizing the lawful careers of those who are victimized and reinforcing fear, loathing and desire to avoid the police.
4
If police are using the traffic laws to enforce other laws, that would be fine. When they're using the traffic laws to express their racism and bigotry, that's a problem.
I've made this statement repeatedly, to whomever will listen, and by responding to reports such as this.
Here in the United States of America, from coast to coast, racism is alive and thriving.
It is evident not only in just about every police department, in every village, town and city, but also in the workplace, in the schools, in fact there is a general and obvious way of being, in white communities, that clearly indicates an almost innate belief that minorities, especially black people, are inferior to, and not entitled to the same respect and opportunities, as whites.
I've observed it in action, every day of my life, from grammar school to my present age of 65.
The bigotry and meanness is disgusting to behold, and even more so in those who pretend to treat all humans equally.
The latest group to be added to the group of humans, Americans hate and despise, is Muslims, regardless of which sect, and where they are from.
I lived in London several years ago, for a short time, and was astonished to discover the sense of unity that existed between all ethnicities.
We should take a good hard look at ourselves, get real, and simply understand that we are all passengers on the good ship Earth, and work together to finally get rid of the steerage decks.
Here in the United States of America, from coast to coast, racism is alive and thriving.
It is evident not only in just about every police department, in every village, town and city, but also in the workplace, in the schools, in fact there is a general and obvious way of being, in white communities, that clearly indicates an almost innate belief that minorities, especially black people, are inferior to, and not entitled to the same respect and opportunities, as whites.
I've observed it in action, every day of my life, from grammar school to my present age of 65.
The bigotry and meanness is disgusting to behold, and even more so in those who pretend to treat all humans equally.
The latest group to be added to the group of humans, Americans hate and despise, is Muslims, regardless of which sect, and where they are from.
I lived in London several years ago, for a short time, and was astonished to discover the sense of unity that existed between all ethnicities.
We should take a good hard look at ourselves, get real, and simply understand that we are all passengers on the good ship Earth, and work together to finally get rid of the steerage decks.
7
Unfortunately this article is not new news. I live in Greensboro and have had encounters with the police via "traffic" stops. I am a middle aged African American (AA) male who does not fit the poor, uneducated stereotype often associated with AA who have such encounters. I am a highly educated successful, wealthy, business owner. The last traffic stop occurred about 3 years ago when I was stopped for allegedly speeding in a school zone. I was asked if I had any drugs in the vehicle (Mercedes Benz E320 Sedan) if the car was mine, and could he look in my car. I asked the officer why he stopped me he said "you were doing 30 MPH in a 25MPH zone"; (the school zone was no longer in effect because of the time of day) I replied that unless he had probable cause and a search warrant that he was not to search my vehicle. He ran my tags gave me the ticket and drove away. Needless to say I was furious, I contacted my attorney and went to court. The officer lied and changed his story several times on the stand. Unfortunately for him I am also an Adjunct professor of Mathematics and was able to prove mathematically that his version of events (time, locations, speeds etc.) were impossible, to the point the presiding judge was laughing. All charges were thrown out and the case dismissed. Had I not had the resources or the resolve to fight this I would have been another "victim" of this policing strategy. Absolutely disgusting!
700
There should be an automatic financial penalty written into every police contract that takes money away from officers who are shown to give false testimony. If the police officer understood that he would lose, say twice the likely fine he was lying to get administered, then he might be a touch less eager to lie. There do not seem to be any penalties for police lying in court. This is wrong.
The rule has to be: tell the truth, and we have your back (even if it does not reflect wonderfully on you), lie and you suffer. One of the most galling things about the recent police reporting is the utter contempt for truth-telling by the police.
The rule has to be: tell the truth, and we have your back (even if it does not reflect wonderfully on you), lie and you suffer. One of the most galling things about the recent police reporting is the utter contempt for truth-telling by the police.
8
I also, simply on principle, would have sued the officer for his meritless action, for wasting my time, and I would have sought to have the police department suspend him, without pay, for at least one week.
I believe it will be a very long time before racism dies in America, if ever.
I believe it will be a very long time before racism dies in America, if ever.
6
I was going to write something, then hesitated. But I see another writer spoke of their experience driving in the South. I spent some time in Greensboro because my son was attending school in Winston-Salem, about a 25- minute drive from Greensboro. Greensboro is beautiful. The roads and highways in the area are far superior to anything we have here: 4 lanes or 6 lanes going in either direction. I drove way over the official speed limit on that highway. With impunity. I'm glad Miles M had the smarts and financial flexibility to stand up for himself successfully.
5
Thanks for the reporting. A few thoughts. First, a technical one about the reporting. Would it be possible, in these days of unlimited storage, to post a link to the raw data being used? Data and statistics and probability do not always translate easily into ordinary English. For example, it seems like--in general--the more people from a group that are arrested, the less likely it will be that the people will possess illegal substances. It would be helpful for serious readers to be able to dive into the data on some of these issues. Statistical thinking is not especially easy.
Secondly, transparency, transparency, transparency; video cameras, body video, car video. The more that is brought into the light, the better--for everyone.
Third, more democratic participation in policy and more rolling adjustments of policy. Communities should have more say about whether and when they want more proactive policing and whether and when they want less. We need new democratic bodies and procedures to implement this. When crime rates go up and police recommend more proactive policing, citizens should have a voice. When they go down, and proactive policing is needed less, citizens should have a voice.
So: (1) New journalism that makes raw data behind the story more easily accessible. (2) More light and transparency all around--and more cameras! (3) New democratic bodies and procedures for communities and their police.
Secondly, transparency, transparency, transparency; video cameras, body video, car video. The more that is brought into the light, the better--for everyone.
Third, more democratic participation in policy and more rolling adjustments of policy. Communities should have more say about whether and when they want more proactive policing and whether and when they want less. We need new democratic bodies and procedures to implement this. When crime rates go up and police recommend more proactive policing, citizens should have a voice. When they go down, and proactive policing is needed less, citizens should have a voice.
So: (1) New journalism that makes raw data behind the story more easily accessible. (2) More light and transparency all around--and more cameras! (3) New democratic bodies and procedures for communities and their police.
1
It's as simple as an officer's first impression occurring when he decides to stop a car or find some reason to do so. That initial attitude is key to everything that follows. It puts the officer into an immediate mode of dissonance i.e. proving he was right about his suspicion.
The follow-through may become increasingly aggressive for any number of reasons that have virtually nothing to do with the subject response. These include impressions as personal as hair, clothing, body oder or even perfume or cologne used by the subject.
As these perceived clues support the officer's first decision to stop a suspect, they provide him with the necessary reinforcement he needs to make good on his hunch. THEN things can truly cascade and get out of control. Even a subject's rising fear can precipitate a more aggressive response from the detaining officer.
So the key to that first alert that exists in the patrol officer's mind is one his chief has a great deal to with. If he is instructed by his boss not to stop 3 blacks every day for every white, he will gradually learn through reprimand and instruction to switch off his racially discriminative profiling and go to other paradigms more productive to proper police work and a stable community.
Every police chief ought to be held directly responsible for racially skewed stats like those set out here. Failure to review dept stats is no excuse for permitting officers to continue to deploy against people of color in any community.
The follow-through may become increasingly aggressive for any number of reasons that have virtually nothing to do with the subject response. These include impressions as personal as hair, clothing, body oder or even perfume or cologne used by the subject.
As these perceived clues support the officer's first decision to stop a suspect, they provide him with the necessary reinforcement he needs to make good on his hunch. THEN things can truly cascade and get out of control. Even a subject's rising fear can precipitate a more aggressive response from the detaining officer.
So the key to that first alert that exists in the patrol officer's mind is one his chief has a great deal to with. If he is instructed by his boss not to stop 3 blacks every day for every white, he will gradually learn through reprimand and instruction to switch off his racially discriminative profiling and go to other paradigms more productive to proper police work and a stable community.
Every police chief ought to be held directly responsible for racially skewed stats like those set out here. Failure to review dept stats is no excuse for permitting officers to continue to deploy against people of color in any community.
2
To understand how this can continue to happen, read Charles W. Mills, The Racial Contract. Critiquing classical social contract theory (Hobbes, Locke, Kant, and Rousseau) as well as more contemporary contractarianism (Rawls), Mills argues that underpinning and therefore reinforced by the ostensibly race-neutral social contract is the Racial Contract, which divides humanity into persons (whites, full citizens, occupants of civil space) and subpersons (people of color, denied full citizenship, occupants/embodiments of the state of nature -- "wild space" -- and therefore threats to civil society). Institutions like the police serve to protect persons, thereby enforcing the terms of the Racial Contract. "The coercive arms of the state," Mills writes, "the police, the penal system, the army -- need to be seen as in part the enforcers of the Racial Contract, working both to keep the peace and prevent crime among the white citizens, and to maintain the racial order and detect and destroy challenges to it" (84). Epistemological ignorance, Mills argues, explains widespread white blindness to what the article describes. Simply put, the Racial Contract presents white reality as reality as such. Whites cannot, therefore, (fully) understand the world they have created, and widespread suspicions persist that, somehow, there must be a reasonable explanation for phenomena like Driving While Black. The Racial Contract does not dictate an epistemology of ignorance; whites can resist.
1
A most interesting theory, det, and I am adding The Racial Contract to my reading list; seeing that the book was published over 15 years ago, I don't know how I was unaware of it until now.
It is a pity that those who most need exposure to the ideas contained therein are likely to be as dismissive of Dr. Mills' theory as they are to your comment, evidenced by their failure to upvote. That, or, they "can't face the truth," preferring to blame (and/or condescend to) the victim e.g. the commenter upthread who finds it incredible that the police would plant illicit substances on innocent detainees and those here who insist with every article addressing police brutality that respectful compliance with a police officer's commands will insure a pleasant outcome for the alleged offender.
Thank you for the book recommendation and for providing your thought-provoking explanation of the contract.
It is a pity that those who most need exposure to the ideas contained therein are likely to be as dismissive of Dr. Mills' theory as they are to your comment, evidenced by their failure to upvote. That, or, they "can't face the truth," preferring to blame (and/or condescend to) the victim e.g. the commenter upthread who finds it incredible that the police would plant illicit substances on innocent detainees and those here who insist with every article addressing police brutality that respectful compliance with a police officer's commands will insure a pleasant outcome for the alleged offender.
Thank you for the book recommendation and for providing your thought-provoking explanation of the contract.
1
Thanks for your reply, Gus. I teach Mills's book and it affects white students and students of color in different but equally profound ways. I hope you enjoy it.
I am often astonished at the level of epistemological ignorance reflected in NYT reader responses on matters of race. Certainly, such matters make white people (of which I am one) uncomfortable. To be confronted with one's implication in perpetuating a system of racial injustice in the ways Mills's book does intensifies that discomfort. Many people prefer to seek rationalizations that don't threaten their worldviews. But, as Mills points out, white people have a choice. It's an uncomfortable choice, but some whites have historically and continue to make it.
I am often astonished at the level of epistemological ignorance reflected in NYT reader responses on matters of race. Certainly, such matters make white people (of which I am one) uncomfortable. To be confronted with one's implication in perpetuating a system of racial injustice in the ways Mills's book does intensifies that discomfort. Many people prefer to seek rationalizations that don't threaten their worldviews. But, as Mills points out, white people have a choice. It's an uncomfortable choice, but some whites have historically and continue to make it.
For what it is worth...I hope I never move a muscle and hold my breath if and when I should encounter a cop. Here in NM it is a roll of the dice of who you are, how you react and if you are not of a particular ethnicity. It is a cruel reality.
8
Absolutely horrifying and SHAMEFUL. My black coworkers in NYC have countless similar stories of basically "Living While Black." That's what I call it. For any white person who doesn't believe this stuff or can't seem to accept it or admit that it's real, well, you were not raised properly, period. And you're a racist. Wake up, white America, especially those in the South -- Living While Black is NOT a crime!!!!! I am a white female, and I'm DISGUSTED by this kind of treatment of blacks. Knock it the hell off already!!!!!
Jill Duncan
Denver, CO
Jill Duncan
Denver, CO
36
The local police force in America and the American judicial system are there to ensure African-Americans and Latin-Americans, especially males, are kept in prison, oops their rightful place. America's legal system, by enforcing institutional racism, is of immense benefit to white America.
All white Americans, regardless of their personal beliefs about race, benefit from the nation's institutional racism. Moreover, the public schools, through their racism of low expectations for minority students, are part-and-parcel of America's institutional racism.
Also, let there be no doubt that the actions of the Republicans' Freedom Caucus are very much part of trying to maintain America's system of institutionalized racism. Republicans' efforts to undermine American foreign and economic policy, because President Obama supports such policy, serve as a national-self-destructive example of America's institutional racism.
All white Americans, regardless of their personal beliefs about race, benefit from the nation's institutional racism. Moreover, the public schools, through their racism of low expectations for minority students, are part-and-parcel of America's institutional racism.
Also, let there be no doubt that the actions of the Republicans' Freedom Caucus are very much part of trying to maintain America's system of institutionalized racism. Republicans' efforts to undermine American foreign and economic policy, because President Obama supports such policy, serve as a national-self-destructive example of America's institutional racism.
26
" America's legal system, by enforcing institutional racism, is of immense benefit to white America."
Really? Perhaps you could elaborate? Because frankly that claim makes zero sense - no logic whatsoever.
Really? Perhaps you could elaborate? Because frankly that claim makes zero sense - no logic whatsoever.
Makes sense to me - even Jesse Jackson admitted fear when walking through black neighborhoods!
7
re: Loyd Eskildson: Was that meant to contribute something meaningful to the reality of Racial Profiling of minorities by law enforcement?
Blanket Statements like that is pretty much the problem. So called "black neighborhoods" that are dangerous are simply areas where there is enormous poverty and few economic opportunities (Camden, Detroit, Newark). Black middle class neighborhoods are very safe. You just categorize and caricature all blacks as poor and dangerous when you make statements like that. I can assure you that there are crimes and increased gang activities in other poor neighborhoods too that are composed of different ethnicities, including whites. As a 2nd generation Nigerian-American, I've never known what the baggage and stigma of what it meant to be "black" until I came to the United States. In fact, I never considered myself "black" until I came back to America. That just means I've noticed a distinct different between how society treats people with dark skin compared to whites.
2
I always have fear when walking through Phoenix.
Two opposite thoughts on this issue:
1. A lot of the men caught in the maws of these police stops - young and old; black, white and other - put on the swagger of thug culture. This is an immediate guard-up trigger to cops since experiences show such men are much more likely to have the potential to be offenders. And, more than likely, even if they're not of criminal intent, if they are poor they probably have some vehicle infraction that the police will catch. Profiling - perhaps. Necessary for a cops survival and enforcement of our laws - you bet.
2. Our police forces have turned in to revenue agents of states and local jurisdictions. It use to be a stop for speeding or a broken taillight would often just result in a warning. Now, its almost always a ticket of some kind. Given this, those of lesser means or probably much more likely to get upset or try to talk the officer out of a ticket. Such a ploy is much more likely to lead to a confrontation. Compare that to the middle aged respectable person who is deferential to the cop, takes the ticket and then gets a lawyer to have the charge dismissed or reduced.
To mitigate these confrontations: 1. Provide more leeway to the police - and less pressure to collect revenue, 2. Have insurance and car up to required standards and 3. Be respectful and deferential to a cop when being stopped. Such actions would, in my estimation, probably eliminate most of these confrontational incidents.
1. A lot of the men caught in the maws of these police stops - young and old; black, white and other - put on the swagger of thug culture. This is an immediate guard-up trigger to cops since experiences show such men are much more likely to have the potential to be offenders. And, more than likely, even if they're not of criminal intent, if they are poor they probably have some vehicle infraction that the police will catch. Profiling - perhaps. Necessary for a cops survival and enforcement of our laws - you bet.
2. Our police forces have turned in to revenue agents of states and local jurisdictions. It use to be a stop for speeding or a broken taillight would often just result in a warning. Now, its almost always a ticket of some kind. Given this, those of lesser means or probably much more likely to get upset or try to talk the officer out of a ticket. Such a ploy is much more likely to lead to a confrontation. Compare that to the middle aged respectable person who is deferential to the cop, takes the ticket and then gets a lawyer to have the charge dismissed or reduced.
To mitigate these confrontations: 1. Provide more leeway to the police - and less pressure to collect revenue, 2. Have insurance and car up to required standards and 3. Be respectful and deferential to a cop when being stopped. Such actions would, in my estimation, probably eliminate most of these confrontational incidents.
4
More abuse and misuse of statistics.
Sadly, I assume that the crime rate in black Greensboro neighborhoods is much higher than in white neighborhoods. Therefore, there a disproportionate number of police patrolling black neighborhoods (think Brownsville vs. Brooklyn Heights).
Therefore, one would assume that blacks are stopped disproportionately, which leads to a disproportionate number of arrests.
Sadly, I assume that the crime rate in black Greensboro neighborhoods is much higher than in white neighborhoods. Therefore, there a disproportionate number of police patrolling black neighborhoods (think Brownsville vs. Brooklyn Heights).
Therefore, one would assume that blacks are stopped disproportionately, which leads to a disproportionate number of arrests.
17
Sociology is not hard science, statistics don't apply when a system of government and the society that it represents is itself corrupt. Selective enforcement of laws skews any objective study of criminal behavior and arrests.
Corruption starts at the top, to be poor and black is not a crime. To be white, entitled to use power by falsely criminalizing others, and being racially abusive is. Most reasonable people agree that many fascist governments in 20th century Europe were criminal organizations, and that average civilians therefore suffered human rights abuses at the hands of those in power.
Corruption starts at the top, to be poor and black is not a crime. To be white, entitled to use power by falsely criminalizing others, and being racially abusive is. Most reasonable people agree that many fascist governments in 20th century Europe were criminal organizations, and that average civilians therefore suffered human rights abuses at the hands of those in power.
People are only arrested at traffic stops if they are DWI or have outstanding warrants. However, the police search vehicles and drivers when a driver license check shows the drivers have outstanding warrants. This partially accounts for the racial disparity in traffic stop searches.
Expired plates or failure to show current plates will get anyone pulled over. To the extent minorities have more expired plates then they will have more traffic stops. We don't have that data I suspect so we can't show causality. Also if you have a load in the back of a vehicle that does not look secured that will get one pulled over. Those items fly off and hit another vehicle and someone ends up dead then it would be a failure of the police to keep the roads safe. This article diminishes these laws to "minor infractions" like the police should ignore them.
Using traffic stops as a tool for sorting out bad guys has effect but it is a blunt instrument and will offend people who are law abiding citizens. What we cannot tell from this article is how police are deployed in a community which would tell us who they are going to contact. For example if 75% of the police force is deployed to minority neighborhoods then there will obviously be a lot more contact with minorities. Then we have to rationalize if 75% of the police should be deployed in minority neighborhoods.
One thing for certain is that gang bangers really hate the police and will look to hide behind the complaints of good citizens. Illegal drugs and guns are moved by car. If they get full run of a community we will have neighborhoods that look like Mexican border towns with endless gun battles and murders.
Communities cannot survive without police so this needs to be figured out.
Using traffic stops as a tool for sorting out bad guys has effect but it is a blunt instrument and will offend people who are law abiding citizens. What we cannot tell from this article is how police are deployed in a community which would tell us who they are going to contact. For example if 75% of the police force is deployed to minority neighborhoods then there will obviously be a lot more contact with minorities. Then we have to rationalize if 75% of the police should be deployed in minority neighborhoods.
One thing for certain is that gang bangers really hate the police and will look to hide behind the complaints of good citizens. Illegal drugs and guns are moved by car. If they get full run of a community we will have neighborhoods that look like Mexican border towns with endless gun battles and murders.
Communities cannot survive without police so this needs to be figured out.
14
I have blond hair and blue eyes. I was once stopped for an expired plate on a new car as I was driving it home from the dealership. The dealership had inadvertently put on temporary dealership plates that had been expired for two days. Even though I explained to the traffic cop that I had just driven the new car off the dealer's lot, I still got a ticket. One another occasion, I got stopped twice within a few minutes for a license plate that was one-day expired. I was driving from my apartment to the country clerk's office to renew the license plate, but the clerk's office was located next to the city police station. It was the first day of the new month, and the traffic cops coming out of their morning briefing had been instructed to look for expired plates. I got stopped twice within three blocks of the clerk's office, but the cop's let me off this time without a ticked because I had the license plate renewal paperwork beside me in the passenger's seat.
In California one has to have plates on the front and back of their vehicles. Many people don't have one on front. But its the minorities and poor who get pulled over for it at a much higher rates than whites. Its profiling.
2
You don't have to be black to be afraid of cops. I'm white and grew up with the Battaglia plan in Baltimore where the cops harassed teenagers with traffic stops. I've never trusted a cop and I'm in my 70s. If I'm stopped, as I have been for speeding, I immediately pull out my wallet, license and car registration and put my hands on the dash. You never know what kind of cop you're going to run into. Most that I've seen over the years have super-sized egos. A few have been pretty down to earth. One, a next door neighbor, wanted his kids to treat guns as always being loaded so they were. There are all sorts of wackos out there and some wear a badge. Survival is best obtained by not having a chip on your shoulder.
27
Asking for a double blind study is nonsensical. The statistics documenting this article demonstrate unequivocally that traffic stops in Greensboro were racist.
9
I'd like to see the outcry if all officers were black and treated whites like the event that was described and happened in Greensboro. Racism still exists and surprised more southern states/ cities aren't listed in this study. Being a native southerner, and living outside of Atlanta, still exists among the uneducated and the bubbas that can't learn. Yet this is the 'Bible belt.' Hypocrites.
12
The New York Times excludes the actual data from its article because the racial disparity in Greensboro traffic stops is small, especially when other demographic variables such as median age and income are considered. (Black resident are significantly younger than the white residents. Younger drivers get more tickets. Lower-income motorist are more likely to have expired license plates and expired inspection stickers.) The University of North Carolina used the data to analyze racial disparities in Greensboro traffic stops from 2012 through 2013. The university released its study on March 23, 2015. The traffic stop data showed Greensboro police made 488,754 traffic stops during the 10-year-period. Blacks, who make up 41 percent of the city’s residents, made up 49.78 percent of those pulled over for traffic violations while whites, who make up 48 percent of the city’s residents, made up 46 percent of those pulled over. Police searched 24,011 vehicles, or 4.9 percent of vehicles they pulled over. The study showed 6.58 percent of black motorists and 3.16 percent of white motorist were searched. (Black motorists were more likely that white motorists to consent to searches and were more likely than white motorists to be searched incidental to arrests. This means they were more likely to have warrants out for their arrest at the time they were stopped for a traffic violation.)
http://www.unc.edu/~fbaum/TrafficStops/Reports2014/GreensboroSummary.pdf
http://www.unc.edu/~fbaum/TrafficStops/Reports2014/GreensboroSummary.pdf
59
Your conclusions are not based on any data you present. The date presented in this article belies your conclusion. It sounds like it is OK to you for the police to profile ethnic groups based on their conception that they are all lawbreakers. Besides, as a retired Public Defender, I can tell you that minorities are more often to have criminal records because whites get better deals for the same crime and end up with dismissals or wiped records at a much higher rates than minorities.
4
William Case - Thanks for the link.
The full report is very interesting. Your analysis appears to be spot on.
I would add that the data show that the biggest disparity in both stops and searches is not race, but rather gender. Using the logic of this article, I believe the writer may have overlooked the real story...gender bias against men!
The full report is very interesting. Your analysis appears to be spot on.
I would add that the data show that the biggest disparity in both stops and searches is not race, but rather gender. Using the logic of this article, I believe the writer may have overlooked the real story...gender bias against men!
2
The numbers you just posted disagree with your assertion that the disparity is small. In fact it shows it to be quite a large statistical disparity.
You're assertion that blacks are more likely to have warrants because they consented to searches more often is a great leap of logic.
You're assertion that blacks are more likely to have warrants because they consented to searches more often is a great leap of logic.
3
Facts are facts and cannot be disputed. However, perception is sometimes greater and exerts a strong influence on our actions. While police are ideally supposed to uphold the law in an unbiased manner, it is they who face the greater perils of encountering criminal activity which is factually committed at much higher rates by blacks. To overcome the consequent fear embedded in the subconscious by such encounters takes a lot of conscious effort which probably cannot be easily summoned even by well trained cops. It's easy to condemn police action like this. We know it happens, but I'm not convinced it arises out of sheer malicious "racism" or intent. Cops need support and excellent training. Let's put money and effort there.
16
The pathology in your comment is endemic to racists, and It's citizens with the wilful ignorance you exhibit that are so instrumental to the current dismal state of affairs in this nation.
Your own words are, "We know it happens, but I'm not convinced it arises out of sheer malicious "racism" or intent." This in a story about a cop planting evidence, accusing a elderly diabetic woman of prostitution, and a two black youth on a deserted street of impeding traffic.
Astonishing (not the least of which is the existence of non-malicious forms of racism). Not only do you sanction racism, justifying it by regurgitating the storied urban legends of imminent occupational peril inherent to law enforcement, but you do it in the face of quantitative and qualitative proof of its incredulousness.
Your own words are, "We know it happens, but I'm not convinced it arises out of sheer malicious "racism" or intent." This in a story about a cop planting evidence, accusing a elderly diabetic woman of prostitution, and a two black youth on a deserted street of impeding traffic.
Astonishing (not the least of which is the existence of non-malicious forms of racism). Not only do you sanction racism, justifying it by regurgitating the storied urban legends of imminent occupational peril inherent to law enforcement, but you do it in the face of quantitative and qualitative proof of its incredulousness.
1
It seems that the police have two choices: use appropriate policing tactics in an effort to prevent crimes before they happen, or step aside and react to crimes after they've happened. Neither option is satisfactory but I suspect most people would prefer the first option. The ultimate solution requires the elimination of crime-infested communities where the various social pathologies that lead to criminal behavior fester and multiply, but that is far beyond the capability of any police department.
10
If the former is to be accomplished, it is legally impermissible for it to be accomplished at the price of constitutional rights. Inevitably the effort leads to a dystopian scenario.
In the last 50 years, it became outdated and out of fashion for white people to be overtly racist.
They still want black to be under their thumb and to know their place. But they want to be subtle.
So, the best way they could accomplish their goal is to unleash police on blacks, under the guise of protecting the society. With this, they really did achieve their goal better than ever. In many ways, black people feel less secure and more harassed, threatened and bullied, and see more deaths than Jim Crow days.
They still want black to be under their thumb and to know their place. But they want to be subtle.
So, the best way they could accomplish their goal is to unleash police on blacks, under the guise of protecting the society. With this, they really did achieve their goal better than ever. In many ways, black people feel less secure and more harassed, threatened and bullied, and see more deaths than Jim Crow days.
13
Nothing in the universe would make most white people happier than if people of color had all the money they wanted, all the education they wanted all of everything they wanted. That way there would be no more problems, but more importantly, there would be no more excuses.
Your very, very, very, flawed assumption is what fuels the racial caldron and keeps the race baiters employed.
Your very, very, very, flawed assumption is what fuels the racial caldron and keeps the race baiters employed.
In artificial intelligence (a branch of computer science) a commonly used methodology similar to profiling is known as pattern recognition. It is widely used as a prediction tool based on the information gathered through the analysis of patterns available in the past data. As far as I know, there is nothing politically incorrect about pattern recognition.
11
Pattern recognition is a tool. Like a hammer or a taser, it can be used in a racist or non-racist way.
If the assumed "pattern" is that black males are charged with more crimes than whites, then recognizing a black male and promptly arresting him because he fits the "pattern" will obviously create a stronger signal for this "pattern". This would be a racist use of an inherently non-racist tool.
If the assumed "pattern" is that black males are charged with more crimes than whites, then recognizing a black male and promptly arresting him because he fits the "pattern" will obviously create a stronger signal for this "pattern". This would be a racist use of an inherently non-racist tool.
There is nothing incorrect about pattern recognition, politically or otherwise. As anyone working in AI or any other discipline where it is used, you should know that the most important part of the process is "the information gathered". Well that, and knowing what pattern is actually recognised.
If "the information gathered" is gender and age, you'll find that the overwhelming majority of crime is committed by young males. Should the police harass all young males? Should you just avoid any contact with them?
What if you found that for whatever reason, redheads were statistically more likely to commit one crime or the other? Or that tall young males were the most likely to commit crimes? Or just maybe, that drivers of expensive sports cars are more likely to ignore speed limits? If whatever ethnicity was more likely to commit tax fraud, would it be okay for the IRS to target all the members of that group?
The other thing is obviously what the pattern tells you. The fact that Blacks are more likely to commit murders, seems no more relevant to TRAFFIC stops than the fact that Whites are more likely to commit financial crimes.
If "the information gathered" is gender and age, you'll find that the overwhelming majority of crime is committed by young males. Should the police harass all young males? Should you just avoid any contact with them?
What if you found that for whatever reason, redheads were statistically more likely to commit one crime or the other? Or that tall young males were the most likely to commit crimes? Or just maybe, that drivers of expensive sports cars are more likely to ignore speed limits? If whatever ethnicity was more likely to commit tax fraud, would it be okay for the IRS to target all the members of that group?
The other thing is obviously what the pattern tells you. The fact that Blacks are more likely to commit murders, seems no more relevant to TRAFFIC stops than the fact that Whites are more likely to commit financial crimes.
Kudos to the Times for doing the hard work of analyzing these data.
Where the heck are academic researchers on this issue? Too busy trying for that corporate funding to do the work of democracy and enlightenment?
And kudos to Fayetteville for starting to clean up its act. YES nearly every motorist is doing something that could justify a stop. But mostly it is only used to harass people of color -- and here in white states like Idaho, people who are suffering from the poverty of our nation's inequality and bad economy. It's high time the police industry started policing itself better.
Racism, cheap power plays, harassment of those too poor to fight back -- these are what turn policing into the greatest danger in the neighborhood. Let's fix that, everywhere!
Where the heck are academic researchers on this issue? Too busy trying for that corporate funding to do the work of democracy and enlightenment?
And kudos to Fayetteville for starting to clean up its act. YES nearly every motorist is doing something that could justify a stop. But mostly it is only used to harass people of color -- and here in white states like Idaho, people who are suffering from the poverty of our nation's inequality and bad economy. It's high time the police industry started policing itself better.
Racism, cheap power plays, harassment of those too poor to fight back -- these are what turn policing into the greatest danger in the neighborhood. Let's fix that, everywhere!
34
"Where the heck"?
I actually saw a study of traffic stops on a Brooklyn College billboard and I suspect Brooklyn College is not alone to study this issue.
But what the BC study showed was that while New York cops were much more likely to stop; a black 19 year old male than a white 19 year old male,
they were much more likely to stop a white male 19 year old than a black female 19 year old.
The fact that the NYT sees the racial bias rather than a gender bias is instructive. It is not science, it is what we call an agenda.
I actually saw a study of traffic stops on a Brooklyn College billboard and I suspect Brooklyn College is not alone to study this issue.
But what the BC study showed was that while New York cops were much more likely to stop; a black 19 year old male than a white 19 year old male,
they were much more likely to stop a white male 19 year old than a black female 19 year old.
The fact that the NYT sees the racial bias rather than a gender bias is instructive. It is not science, it is what we call an agenda.
1
From Bob: After sunset, can anyone tell the race, or even gender of the darkened cars interior? I can't.
4
Matches my anecdotal evidence checking out traffic stops on Rhode Island highways.
2
Saw "Straight Outta Compton" last night and was reminded of what the Rodney King verdicts did to Los Angeles. The movie does a good job of putting an old white guy in the shoes of young black men who see the police as an implacable, often irrational enemy. It also makes you realize -- what kind of person is going to take on the job of patrolling the ghetto? Not your sweetheart, that's for sure. So, no answers to the problem but...the Rodney King verdicts were a real miscarriage of justice and every cop on the beat should understand how much harder it made their job going forward.
4
I have always lived in middle class white neighborhoods. Just a few things I've seen.
Cop grabbing a car accident victim out of his car and shoving him against the car. Driver a white teen. The cop did not wait for EMTs to arrive, but manhandled the victim as if he was a criminal, a kid bleeding from the head. I witnessed the accident, dialed 911 and asked for an ambulance. A cop showed instead.
A cop in his car following a teenaged girl walking along the sidewalk in Cobble Hill Brooklyn. She had just come up from the subway. The cop kept yelling out his window. 'Want a date? Want to go to dinner?' The girl, white or hispanic, finally yelled, "Please leave me alone!" and ran into a church across the street to get away.
Cops at a light across from the entrance to Prospect Park, drinking shakes. No flashing lights. Obviously not engaged in an emergency; chowing down Micky Ds and chatting. They got impatient with the white woman in the car in front of them. They started screaming - like frat boys - "MOVE! MOVE! MOVE!" to the woman until she ran the red light.
I haven't seen cops do anything good. To me, the above is who cops are, harassers, abusers, members of the gang in blue.
Cops abuse blacks more than whites, but they abuse both, and it has to stop. It is disgusting. Extreme revamping of police - including firing all existing cops and replacing them with higher quality recruits - is needed. Cops need to be smart, fit, and professional. As a class they are anything but.
Cop grabbing a car accident victim out of his car and shoving him against the car. Driver a white teen. The cop did not wait for EMTs to arrive, but manhandled the victim as if he was a criminal, a kid bleeding from the head. I witnessed the accident, dialed 911 and asked for an ambulance. A cop showed instead.
A cop in his car following a teenaged girl walking along the sidewalk in Cobble Hill Brooklyn. She had just come up from the subway. The cop kept yelling out his window. 'Want a date? Want to go to dinner?' The girl, white or hispanic, finally yelled, "Please leave me alone!" and ran into a church across the street to get away.
Cops at a light across from the entrance to Prospect Park, drinking shakes. No flashing lights. Obviously not engaged in an emergency; chowing down Micky Ds and chatting. They got impatient with the white woman in the car in front of them. They started screaming - like frat boys - "MOVE! MOVE! MOVE!" to the woman until she ran the red light.
I haven't seen cops do anything good. To me, the above is who cops are, harassers, abusers, members of the gang in blue.
Cops abuse blacks more than whites, but they abuse both, and it has to stop. It is disgusting. Extreme revamping of police - including firing all existing cops and replacing them with higher quality recruits - is needed. Cops need to be smart, fit, and professional. As a class they are anything but.
25
I realize that these events do not rate on scale of bad acts by police, given all the videos of killings and serious beatings, but it shows how unprofessionally cops behave on a daily basis; another day another proposition to a young girl, another screaming at a woman to run a red light, another manhandling of an accident victim that could further aggravate the victim's injuries. Ho hum.
4
I concur. Once, when I was in high school, pulling into my driveway in a typical upper middle class neighborhood in Miami, I noticed a Miami-Dade cop in his car down the block. Apparently he noticed me too, because a few minutes later he knocked on my door. Seeing that it was the officer, I opened the door assuming it was benevolent. However, he proceeded to hit on me. Once I got over the shock, I told him I was 17 and my dad was on the way home. He left. And for years afterward, each time I was pulled over by a Miami-Dade cop (and for legitimate reasons - speeding or failing to yield), I was hit on and encouraged to engage with the cop in order to get out of a ticket. It was vile and left me with the impression that all cops are misogynistic, power-trippers.
1
Perhaps the FBI director should read this report and comment on in of his public defences of the police behaviour toward black people particularly young black males in USA.
4
We can do all we can for equality.
But how do you change a racist discriminatory closed insecure threatened by anything different mind.
NO law can do that.
But how do you change a racist discriminatory closed insecure threatened by anything different mind.
NO law can do that.
1
Right, a police officer carries around bags of marijuana just in case he wants to charge an innocent black motorist with possession of drugs. Nice way to risk your entire career for a misdemeanor bust. That story makes zero sense and why the Times printed it without corroboration baffles me completely. The victim, if there was one, has every reason in the world to lie about possession. The police officer has no reason to lie. Are patrol officers really walking around with bags of drugs just in case they need to frame some one?
The second story about "Mr Phillips" at least makes sense. Still, why not just comply with the legal request of the police officer? Oh because they keep planting these bags of marijuana in my car. Now I understand.
The second story about "Mr Phillips" at least makes sense. Still, why not just comply with the legal request of the police officer? Oh because they keep planting these bags of marijuana in my car. Now I understand.
18
A cop was recorded on video planting crack in a business establishment. A cop was recorded on video planting a gun on a person he had just shot dead. A cop was recorded on video planting a knife on a person he had just shot dead. A cop was revealed to have produced fake evidence of drug use by an innocent woman during the filming of the TV reality show, COPS. All of this and more regarding cops planting fake evidence to justify murders or arrests, is plentifully in evidence on Youtube. It appears that carrying around stuff to plant is business as usual.
3
I was a defense lawyer for 30 years in rural California. I had many cases where it was clear that the officer had planted drugs. You are naive to think that all cops are pure and honest. Many cops get into the profession so they could bully people and get away with it. The police protect their own. They rarely get fired let alone prosecuted when they purposely violate the laws.
2
You don't get out much, do you? (Or read much about this issue). Anyway, the article said he planted a plastic bag, nothing about marijuana being in it. And you may want to check out the Walter Scott story earlier this year when Officer Friendly, after shooting and killing Scott, ambled back to throw his Taser on the ground next to him to claim that the shooting was justified because Scott went for his Taser.
Unfortunately for Officer Friendly, the whole incident was caught on Candid Camera by a bystander with a camera phone and went viral on the internet.
Unfortunately for Officer Friendly, the whole incident was caught on Candid Camera by a bystander with a camera phone and went viral on the internet.
4
Good to have some hard data in an attempt to lend further credibility to the issue of racial bias among police. But, for a moment, lets redirect ourselves from the police to our own back yards. What might be the results of a study to test the hypothesis that, walking alone down a side street late at night, a white (or black) person would be more likely to cross to the other side if two African American youths were approaching in the distance than if the youths were white? Back in the early 1990's, in my own overwhelmingly white, ultra-liberal town, there was a program of bussing African American students from black neighborhoods to our schools. As a result, some close friendships developed between black and white students. A few weeks before Halloween, a black eighth grader passed out invitations to a party at her home. Almost instantly, an ad hoc committee of "concerned parents" very quietly assembled to deal with "the problem". The girl came back to school that Monday, tearfully reporting to the school psychologist that not a single white girl had shown up to her party; moreover the awkwardness that ensued left many of her white "friends" looking the other way when she was in the vicinity.
Lets look first in our own hearts to eliminate the roots of racial discrimination. While it is easier to criticize others than to examine ourselves, it is much more possible--and actually empowering-- to achieve change in ourselves than in others.
Lets look first in our own hearts to eliminate the roots of racial discrimination. While it is easier to criticize others than to examine ourselves, it is much more possible--and actually empowering-- to achieve change in ourselves than in others.
12
The truth is that violent crime rates in communities of color are stratospheric compared to others. (Folks can argue about why that's the case - but historic discrimination is obviously the huge factor.) It would not be "racist" for the NYT to acknowledge these statistics and discuss them. For once I'd love to read a NYT article that actually examines the conduct of our police officers with intellectual rigor. The stories I've read just seem calculated to feed a political narrative. We tend to focus on victims of police misconduct. But are victims of violent crime (who are disproportionately black and underprivileged) not victims, too?
36
It should be obvious to all by now that any interaction with the police, no matter how minor, carries with it the possibility of a death sentence.
37
This is an article with a point of view that blacks are the victims of police injustice. Another NYT article today says the FBI director thinks crime rates are rising because police have become more timid about policing because of articles such as this one.
If you live in an area with high crime rates you will have more aggressive police, that's a fact of life and a good thing for law abiding citizens.
Blue lives matter. Police killing after police killing has been done by a black criminal. Anyone in their right mind would be very cautious, police are no different.
Is there something going on culturally that is driving more aggressive postures in young blacks? I suspect this is also a key. You drive aggressively, and react aggressively when you are stopped, you'll get a more aggressive reaction.
In the police shooting in Jefferson many witnesses exaggerated the officer's actions, other just lied about it. To publish the brothers point of view is okay but I suspect there are different interpretations of what happened there too.
Police in high crime areas are essentially in combat zones. That creates different responses in people, both police and blacks. From many of the black responses one can see police are viewed as the enemy. That will impact police behavior.
These stops are a two way street. I was taught if you are stopped, keep your hands on the wheel, be polite and don't argue. You act tough and angry, you get what you get.
If you live in an area with high crime rates you will have more aggressive police, that's a fact of life and a good thing for law abiding citizens.
Blue lives matter. Police killing after police killing has been done by a black criminal. Anyone in their right mind would be very cautious, police are no different.
Is there something going on culturally that is driving more aggressive postures in young blacks? I suspect this is also a key. You drive aggressively, and react aggressively when you are stopped, you'll get a more aggressive reaction.
In the police shooting in Jefferson many witnesses exaggerated the officer's actions, other just lied about it. To publish the brothers point of view is okay but I suspect there are different interpretations of what happened there too.
Police in high crime areas are essentially in combat zones. That creates different responses in people, both police and blacks. From many of the black responses one can see police are viewed as the enemy. That will impact police behavior.
These stops are a two way street. I was taught if you are stopped, keep your hands on the wheel, be polite and don't argue. You act tough and angry, you get what you get.
18
Please explain what crime James Field and Marie Robinson committed. Otherwise, stop making excuses for toxic white supremacy.
So despite an overwhelming police presence in black communities, their crime rates are still significantly higher than in white communities? Why is that the case? It seems logical that a police presence would drive crime down, not up. Maybe we should try pouring more police into white communities?
And for curiosity's sake, the Times might consider analyzing the disparities between black & Asian communities, or Asian & Hispanic, or even Asian & white.
And for curiosity's sake, the Times might consider analyzing the disparities between black & Asian communities, or Asian & Hispanic, or even Asian & white.
10
The existence of laws that everyone breaks all the time, which function as a fallback for cops when they want to arrest any random person, is a big problem. Those laws have to be stricken from the books. They give cops carte blanche.
5
My young white wife drover her jeep throughout Hartford Connecticut without a front license plate for almost a year and was never stopped. How many local Hartford residents who are not white would have been able to do that?
For that matter, How many illicit substances would New Haven police find if they stopped and searched Yale students as regularly as the people in poor sections of the city? I"m guessing a similar amount per capita, but we'll never know, but seek and you shall find. Had the police sought equally we would not be having this discussion.
For that matter, How many illicit substances would New Haven police find if they stopped and searched Yale students as regularly as the people in poor sections of the city? I"m guessing a similar amount per capita, but we'll never know, but seek and you shall find. Had the police sought equally we would not be having this discussion.
24
Unless the Yale student was black. See column by Charles Blow about his Yalie son a while back.
I'm glad this is finally starting to get the media spotlight it deserves. Unfortunately, racial profiling and abuse of minorites in traffic stops has been going on for decades. Police continue to get away with it because city prosecutors are loathe to do anything about it. The prosecutors rely on the cops as witnesses in trials to make their cases.
11
I'm a 62-year-old white woman in a mostly white community. There is a traffic stop near my home, and when I pass slowly, I often look at the officer. There is one who clearly does not like eye contact. It's clear that one should not make eye contact with police officers as they see that as suspicious behavior.
And then there is the permissibility of cops lying -- lying has become the norm for cops, yet they are the ones believed by juries and judges.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03/opinion/sunday/why-police-officers-lie...
And then there is the permissibility of cops lying -- lying has become the norm for cops, yet they are the ones believed by juries and judges.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03/opinion/sunday/why-police-officers-lie...
12
obviously, more officers need to fired and charged as violent felons. maybe lie detector tests given to officers and their victims might also shed more light on the problem. more body cameras would also help.
1
I think the root of many social problems is poverty. When I lived in the Upper West Side of Manhattan I saw the police stopping poor Hispanic pedestrians four times, the so called stop-and-frisk, for just waking down the street and it seemed to me it happened because they looked like poor people. They were not treated harshly but I still think it was a disrespect of their rights because they were not committing any crime. By that time I had the impression that it was part of the illegal immigration issue. But regarding this article, I am wondering how a black person who is articulated, sound like an educated person and is driving a nice car will be treated during a stop for any traffic violation, grave or not. I may be wrong but I doubt that he will be treated with disrespect unless he disrespect police authority. In the end, I think race plays a role in how people is dealt with disrespect and consideration but specially when the person is associated with low class or low social status. And that bat treatment does not come from police only. I comes from many segments of society. I think the strongest bias is toward poverty not race.
2
I think this is true and undervalued in the commentary. The leading or second leading Republican, and the President, are black. Oprah can double a stock just by buying into a company. White people are more than willing to support black people as leaders, when they are articulate and accomplished
On the other hand, at the other end of the socioeconomic spectrum, if you live in a major urban center you see everyday a type of underclass person who deserves to be feared, who statistically is or has been a felon. This young man is feared by black and while people alike.
So, revered leaders, and feared predators? The distinction is class not race.
On the other hand, at the other end of the socioeconomic spectrum, if you live in a major urban center you see everyday a type of underclass person who deserves to be feared, who statistically is or has been a felon. This young man is feared by black and while people alike.
So, revered leaders, and feared predators? The distinction is class not race.
This story is a very good illustration of the two Americas - one that is occupied by a white population and another that is occupied by a non-white population. To the former population, this is news - an important story that needs to be absorbed, evaluated and in some way acted upon. To the latter population, this is reality - something that we have been talking about for decades, both among ourselves and to white folks who will listen. And our reaction to this article? Ambivalence. It's a relief that something as basic is this is receiving "above-the-fold" attention in the New York Times. It's also frustrating that it hasn't received this attention more often, and much sooner (think "land of the free,"), and that the Times needed to devote this kind of investigative research to making it into a legitimate story. This isn't breaking. It isn't emergent. It's old, it's entrenched, it's part of everyday life and it's wrong. The dominant culture's internal resistance to this reality is what requires this kind of hyperbolic attention to a story that should be regarded by all - not just people of color - as a given (if not accepted) part of life in the United States. One nation, two realities. This story comes from and is addressed to one of them. It's necessary, and we are appreciative of it, and at the same time, it rankles those of us from the other reality.
13
I would fully expect to be pulled over if I were driving with expired plates.... and if I had stuff extending out of the bed of my truck, without a flag, I'd be a danger to others, and wouldn't be surprised to be stopped and ticketed.
One way to avoid contact with the police is to obey the law....
One way to avoid contact with the police is to obey the law....
40
This whole story begins with things that every driver knows or should know are against the law. I would expect to be stopped and ticketed for expired plates or stuff extending out of the back of my truck without a red flag. In what way does this show prejudice against blacks?
I was stopped while driving my 35 year old totally restored Jeep CJ5. Cop wouldn't tell me why I was stopped. Demanded license, registration, and insurance papers.
Then she proceeded to tell me my violation was that I was not wearing a shoulder harness! I told her my Jeep was older than she was, and shoulder harnesses did not exist when it was built. She finally couldn't figure out a way to ticket me, so she handed everything back and let me go.
I was stopped, and not breaking any law. Blacks see everything as racism. I guess maybe I could see my stop as ageism since I was almost 70, obviously too old to be driving a cool car.
I was stopped while driving my 35 year old totally restored Jeep CJ5. Cop wouldn't tell me why I was stopped. Demanded license, registration, and insurance papers.
Then she proceeded to tell me my violation was that I was not wearing a shoulder harness! I told her my Jeep was older than she was, and shoulder harnesses did not exist when it was built. She finally couldn't figure out a way to ticket me, so she handed everything back and let me go.
I was stopped, and not breaking any law. Blacks see everything as racism. I guess maybe I could see my stop as ageism since I was almost 70, obviously too old to be driving a cool car.
1
I think the point of this article is that after the stop the driver ended up being pulled out of the car and on the ground. Seems a little excessive for an expired tabs stop, in my opinion.
We often see cars with expires stickers or drivers that race by other cars, oblivious to the speed limit. We would be stopped if we did that and so should they.
To prove profiling in court, statistics generally have to be supplemented by evidence of intent. Of course, such evidence is rare because no one will admit it. As convincing as this analysis may be, the writers could do better.. North Carolina is diverse. Greensboro, as noted, is an old southern city that is more progressive than most. Fayetteville is not nearly as progressive. The Research Triangle is not unlike Silicon Valley. And Bible belt towns like Smithfield, Goldsboro, and Wilson are among the most racially charged of all. The policing of these different locations likely reflects the differences in local racial attitudes. If statistics confirm that fact, that would better prove that policing practices comport with local prejudices which, in turn, would strongly suggest that the statistics reflect intent. That may not be important for those relying on common sense. But common sense is not enough to prove profiling in court.
In his masterful new book, Ta Nehisi Coates argues that racism is now an embedded part of the structure of our most important institutions, including the police and criminal justice system. Until the police truly reform, or until they must pay a significant penalty for nakedly racist behavior and accompanying abuse, continually scapegoating part of our population - who are our fellow citizens and brothers and sisters - nothing will change. And something must change now.
Qualifications for becoming a police officer must be radically changed and those who harbor racism as an embedded part of their character must be refused. Develop far more sophisticated psychological screening and include input from mental health professionals who study racism, and sadism, and include that in screening and periodically reassess employees for these issues. Also break the 'blue wall' and reward decent, responsible cops who inform responsible superiors when an associate is racially targeting people. Then fire that person.
People will argue these proposals will lessen the ability of the police to do their jobs. But for those who now clearly see the overwhelming presence of racism in our policing - as well as racist criminal justice standards and laws that result in trying, sentencing and incarcerating people in an unjust and disproportionate manner - this system is broken. Millions suffering under this burden deserve justice. They not only deserve justice - it is their right.
Qualifications for becoming a police officer must be radically changed and those who harbor racism as an embedded part of their character must be refused. Develop far more sophisticated psychological screening and include input from mental health professionals who study racism, and sadism, and include that in screening and periodically reassess employees for these issues. Also break the 'blue wall' and reward decent, responsible cops who inform responsible superiors when an associate is racially targeting people. Then fire that person.
People will argue these proposals will lessen the ability of the police to do their jobs. But for those who now clearly see the overwhelming presence of racism in our policing - as well as racist criminal justice standards and laws that result in trying, sentencing and incarcerating people in an unjust and disproportionate manner - this system is broken. Millions suffering under this burden deserve justice. They not only deserve justice - it is their right.
28
Another perspective. This one has to do with learned behavior. Learned police reactions. Reactions that result from conditioning. From associations the brain makes. Associations that happen beyond conscious awareness.
For example, think about looting. Think about inner city crime. Which race automatically pops up? That's the result of conditioning. That's the result of associating a certain skin color with anti social behavior. And that's the result of what happens and what's repeatedly shown to us on the news. Looting/blacks; inner city crime/blacks.
And it's those kinds of associations that over time build up in the subconscious part of the mind. It's those kinds of associations that become stronger with each similar event that over time leads to unfair generalizations and automatic reactions to all with a similar skin color. Thus the more threatening experiences with blacks law enforcement sees, hears about and experiences, the more conditioned they become to automatically overreact to people whose skin color matches the skin color of those the brain, through learning, has become conditioned to suspect of wrong doing and fear.
The fact is, the more the various aspects of any kind of unwanted behavior, including police over reactions, is understood the easier it is to modify.
And there overall is much more going on via conditioning in the brain; in the subconscious part of the mind that's on automatic than we realize or want to accept and acknowledge.
For example, think about looting. Think about inner city crime. Which race automatically pops up? That's the result of conditioning. That's the result of associating a certain skin color with anti social behavior. And that's the result of what happens and what's repeatedly shown to us on the news. Looting/blacks; inner city crime/blacks.
And it's those kinds of associations that over time build up in the subconscious part of the mind. It's those kinds of associations that become stronger with each similar event that over time leads to unfair generalizations and automatic reactions to all with a similar skin color. Thus the more threatening experiences with blacks law enforcement sees, hears about and experiences, the more conditioned they become to automatically overreact to people whose skin color matches the skin color of those the brain, through learning, has become conditioned to suspect of wrong doing and fear.
The fact is, the more the various aspects of any kind of unwanted behavior, including police over reactions, is understood the easier it is to modify.
And there overall is much more going on via conditioning in the brain; in the subconscious part of the mind that's on automatic than we realize or want to accept and acknowledge.
80
Are we not conditioned by objective reality? Reaching conclusions or at least assumptions based on experience and observation is how the human mind works. We can't un-know what we know merely to reach more politically correct conclusion.
Purplepatriot, Good point. It's the generalizations that become the problem. It's when we unconsciously react to everyone based on the reality of some. Becoming aware of that human tendency, helps us to be no less cautious when necessary but can also help us do a better job at being less over reactive. Being self-aware of as many conscious/sub conscious personally motivating factors as possible, regarding our various reactions, always leads to better decision making, improved self-control, and better results.
2
I have been conditioned to associate loud drunks, street fighting, and aggressive sexual behavior with men. How do I modify that?
1
Comments hyper-micro or hyper-macro, should remember the mean, the meridian. It's a 9th amendment issue. It's time to unpack the guarantees of the 9th amendment!
Fight for freedom under the Ninth!
Fight for freedom under the Ninth!
4
I had to stop reading after the first indecent was described, how long will this violence against our citizens continue. Police have a dangerous job, but by brutalizing out of fear, or just a vicious power trip, police are making their own job more difficult.
If police are not promptly dismissed or prosecuted after their unnecessary or violent actions, then all are suspect.
Earning trust is easy, winning back trust is all but impossible.
This to me is a canary in the coal mine issue for Americans, all Americans!
If police are not promptly dismissed or prosecuted after their unnecessary or violent actions, then all are suspect.
Earning trust is easy, winning back trust is all but impossible.
This to me is a canary in the coal mine issue for Americans, all Americans!
4
I used to teach for the Upward Bound program, which is for low income first generation college-goers. Every Saturday morning, kids would show up to the college campus where the classes were held for 3 hours of math and English.
Then we'd all leave, walk out to the parking lot, and I'd always watch four of our black male students get into a car and I knew in that moment they were transitioning to another reality and ran the real risk of being perceived as a danger and not as four young men leaving Saturday classes. Frustrated me so much.
Then we'd all leave, walk out to the parking lot, and I'd always watch four of our black male students get into a car and I knew in that moment they were transitioning to another reality and ran the real risk of being perceived as a danger and not as four young men leaving Saturday classes. Frustrated me so much.
13
Like Wisconsin, the institutions and ways that historically made North Carolina a great place to live are under direct assault by radical conservative forces. Now that they have control of our governor, Pat McCrory, and our state legislature, the assault is on. Just as those described in this article are being stripped on their rights as americans, so too are their voting rights under full attack as polling places are closed or moved further away from those who must vote there. Meanwhile their carefully gerrymandered districts effectively stifle the will of the majority, resulting in frustration as they are unable to stop the wildfires of radical rightwing philosophy as espoused and promoted by the puppet-master Art Pope, a social-engineering madman. It's as if those in power failed to learn the lessons of the inevitable explosion of pent-up political anger. Time will tell.
5
Cops have to understand that people are simply scared to death of them and as this article shows, with very good reason. Once, as I was walking down the street, a policeman half a block ahead of me suddenly pointed in my direction. I was so horrified I needed to reach for a wall to support myself ... and I'm a diminutive, elderly white woman. In that event, the cop rushed to the old lady to be sure she was all right. If I had been young and black, he would have more likely thrown me to the ground and cuffed me.
If the people they are supposed to "protect and serve" are terrified of them, something is very wrong -- and it is entirely their fault.
If the people they are supposed to "protect and serve" are terrified of them, something is very wrong -- and it is entirely their fault.
17
When we used to live in Houston, my business office was in an upper middle class, mostly white part of town with windows up on the sixth floor overlooking the entire neighborhood. For about an hour each morning during a meeting with my two employees, we'd discuss the day's outlook while looking out the window and witness what we called the "Bellaire Lottery."
Each day on the same corner of West Loop and Elm, we'd watch the Bellaire cops pull over at least 6 cars within that hour - amazingly almost all of the cars pulled over were driven by black drivers, who made up a tiny minority of our section of Bellaire. It was a mixture of sad, embarrassing, and infuriating; waiting to see which of our fellow citizens would be unlucky enough to "win" the Bellaire lottery that morning - almost certainly just for being Black in Bellaire.
It was impossible not to notice and even more impossible not to be angry about it.
Each day on the same corner of West Loop and Elm, we'd watch the Bellaire cops pull over at least 6 cars within that hour - amazingly almost all of the cars pulled over were driven by black drivers, who made up a tiny minority of our section of Bellaire. It was a mixture of sad, embarrassing, and infuriating; waiting to see which of our fellow citizens would be unlucky enough to "win" the Bellaire lottery that morning - almost certainly just for being Black in Bellaire.
It was impossible not to notice and even more impossible not to be angry about it.
28
Assuming that the bias is true, it's likely root cause is easy to guess.
Irrespective of the geographic local, the nightly news routinely has a story of the latest violent crime committed by a black youth. This remarkably consistent.
Barring a conspiracy by the press to only report crimes done by blacks, this pattern cannot be ignored. It explains all of the complaints of bias by the black community. Both the police and the average citizen are influenced by their immersion in these facts.
The result is the public distrusts and fears black men. This distrust is highest in black communities. Given the documented higher rate (7.7 X ) of violent crime, this fear is justified. This fear has a broad range of manifestations. Superficial traffic stops are but one of many.
Irrespective of the geographic local, the nightly news routinely has a story of the latest violent crime committed by a black youth. This remarkably consistent.
Barring a conspiracy by the press to only report crimes done by blacks, this pattern cannot be ignored. It explains all of the complaints of bias by the black community. Both the police and the average citizen are influenced by their immersion in these facts.
The result is the public distrusts and fears black men. This distrust is highest in black communities. Given the documented higher rate (7.7 X ) of violent crime, this fear is justified. This fear has a broad range of manifestations. Superficial traffic stops are but one of many.
7
James Fields and Marie Robinson are not black youth.
Some how despite the actions of Cliven Bundy and Eric Frein, whites do not dole out abuse, harassment, beatings and false arrest to white men. Funny that.
Some how despite the actions of Cliven Bundy and Eric Frein, whites do not dole out abuse, harassment, beatings and false arrest to white men. Funny that.
I'm definitely not defending it, but I wonder how much of the disparity in stops results from the fact that cops tend to patrol more heavily in predominantly black neighborhoods. From my observation in the midsize N.C. city where I live, it's definitely the case that there seem to be far more patrols in black neighborhoods. Greater contact is likely lead to more stops.
2
The "driving while Black" phenomenon is real and disproportionate police brutality against Blacks is well documented and studied. It's a national crisis.
But so is "riding the wrong bus while White", "being Asian in a mostly Black school" and "walking to the corner store too late while White" and other forms of harassment and violence I have seen with my own eyes. Crime stats back up my anecdotal experiences.
Two wrongs don't make a right of course and that's not what this article is about. But just saying I'm waiting for that hard hitting data-driven nytimes article about the elephant in the room - the color of crime - but haven't seen much on that front have we?
But so is "riding the wrong bus while White", "being Asian in a mostly Black school" and "walking to the corner store too late while White" and other forms of harassment and violence I have seen with my own eyes. Crime stats back up my anecdotal experiences.
Two wrongs don't make a right of course and that's not what this article is about. But just saying I'm waiting for that hard hitting data-driven nytimes article about the elephant in the room - the color of crime - but haven't seen much on that front have we?
16
One thing that is critically important is that all efforts to prevent videoing of cops must fail. If cops are too poorly educated to know and enforce the law while adhering to the Constitution, then they need to be replaced. If they are intentionally refusing to enforce the law as a reaction to being held to the standards of their profession, that is even worse. The answer is not to put their crimes back into a black box hidden from public view, but to take meaningful, even radical, steps to replace these cops with new recruits who will be selected with far greater care (no IQ caps on candidates!!!), will be educated much better and more rigorously, paid far better, and will wear body cameras. There should also be a per se rule that if a body camera is turned off during any encounter with the public, that cop will be permanently relieved of duty. No excuses. The job is too important; the power granted to cops is too great, to allow them to perform their job under standards any less rigorous.
8
Years ago, a cop who was a friend confided in me that I was frequently stopped for no discernible reason because I had long blond hair. He added it was the nature of cops to want to pull over pretty women more than ugly men. He advised that I hide my hair under a cap or scarf, which actually helped. Now that I am old, I am grateful each time I start the engine that I look like an old lady, someone no cop would be interested in. I think if I were black, I would be afraid to drive.
26
Do we really need a detailed study to prove that there is still racism in the US or that there is a disparity in police treatment of black and white men?
As a young man in my ill be a couple of minutes ill be a couple of minutes late teens or early 20s I was stopped by police for no apparent reason from time to time. But I am no 65 and white and haven't had that happen in over 40 years.
Don't we want a more just society than this?
As a young man in my ill be a couple of minutes ill be a couple of minutes late teens or early 20s I was stopped by police for no apparent reason from time to time. But I am no 65 and white and haven't had that happen in over 40 years.
Don't we want a more just society than this?
4
I'll believe it when a properly designed and executed "double=blind" study is done. This article does not even come close to being well-designed. It just counts how many blacks v. how many whites are stopped. That is just one part of the story.
13
I notice who is pulled over by the police as I drive by. Where I drive, 8 times out of ten the person in the pulled-over car is black or Latino. I don't know what they were doing, I don't know if the pull-over was justified; I'm just saying.
I'm a middle-aged gray-haired white woman who lives in Maine and has been pulled over for speeding by angry aggressive cops. I can only imagine what it would be like to be black in that situation.
Makes me very sad and angry.
I'm a middle-aged gray-haired white woman who lives in Maine and has been pulled over for speeding by angry aggressive cops. I can only imagine what it would be like to be black in that situation.
Makes me very sad and angry.
84
I was pulled over in Manhattan by a very unfriendly and belligerent white cop. While I attributed it to the guy just being a jerk, a black person might, with justification, attribute it to racism.
My white 20-year-old son was stopped twice in two days when I let the car registration lapse by three days. The second time the officer thought he had drugs in the car and searched it. This was the first time I've registered a car late and it got immediate attention. Of course I do believe that black drivers are stopped more often for flimsy reasons. If my son were black he may have ended up handcuffed and tased or worse.
160
Julie,
You are not a hateful person.
You just believe you are a better person than the police officers that are hateful, biased and racist.
Unfortunately, believing that you are a better person than the whole group of people just because they belong to such a group is the very basis of racism…
You are not a hateful person.
You just believe you are a better person than the police officers that are hateful, biased and racist.
Unfortunately, believing that you are a better person than the whole group of people just because they belong to such a group is the very basis of racism…
I agree, Julie. 3 out of 4 members of my immediate family in NYC have had absurd encounters with the police that failed to live up to the NYPD motto: Courtesy Professionalism and Respect. When I told my African-America friend about one involving my son - a ridiculous accusation that he was truant when in fact he was just transferring from one subway line to the next and just blocks and minutes from school - my friend said that if he had been black, his mother would not have been called. Instead, for talking back to the officer, he just would have been arrested. When I arrived at the Columbus Circle subway station precinct, I gave the man at the desk heck (no bad language) for preventing my son from getting to school. The officer who had detained him told me, "Oh, now I see where he gets it from." They released him and off he went to school, having missed one class and half of the next.
Is a lapsed registration a 'flimsy reason' then?
Stopping the enforcement of laws (ex., license, registration) to avoid arrests doesn't seem like a smart move. Instead, efforts should be made to assist blacks with following laws. Keeping their licenses, registrations, etc., current is the smarter way to prevent arrests.
13
How does one assist someone not to break the law?
4
Good question. Make it a priority and run public safety campaigns backed up by resources.
Consider if politicians spent as much time getting people to register their cars as they do getting people to register to vote, there would be far fewer unregistered cars.
Consider if politicians spent as much time getting people to register their cars as they do getting people to register to vote, there would be far fewer unregistered cars.
5
Unfortunately, this often happens to blacks who aren't breaking the law and don't have criminal records. Until people see the truth about the "bad eggs" in their police departments, this sort of behavior will continue.
2
This comes as no surprise. Will this society ever "get it right" about including all people as participants on an equal basis? Even issues that seem simple, like equal access to the ballot... issues that seemed to have been solved to a degree... have been turned into issues of discrimination again.
15
Police departments abuse our country's basic human rights when they condone bullying by cops. Pulling over drivers for such infractions as failing to use a turn signal, or failing to put a flag on a tailgate or such demeans our country.
Bullying by cops is a national disgrace.
That said, the vast majority of police work to enforce the laws and protect citizens. We cannot damn the profession because of the few. But we must hold the few accountable for their actions.
Bullying by cops is a national disgrace.
That said, the vast majority of police work to enforce the laws and protect citizens. We cannot damn the profession because of the few. But we must hold the few accountable for their actions.
197
The cops who bully and abuse their power are condoned by their own departments and the police culture in which they operate. People need to get off their butts and vote for civic leaders who will not tolerate this attitude in their law enforcement.
5
@TDurk Rochester, NY
The persistent abuse of power by law enforcement officials stems largely from a misrepresentation (i.e profiling) of the people they are supposed to be protecting in the Black community, and the stark under representation of officers coming from racially diverse backgrounds.
It is not a matter of "damning" the police profession, but of recognizing that this is a real problem, and then taking steps to readjust the pattern of behavior and current mindset from that in which they are now allowed to operate with impunity.
The persistent abuse of power by law enforcement officials stems largely from a misrepresentation (i.e profiling) of the people they are supposed to be protecting in the Black community, and the stark under representation of officers coming from racially diverse backgrounds.
It is not a matter of "damning" the police profession, but of recognizing that this is a real problem, and then taking steps to readjust the pattern of behavior and current mindset from that in which they are now allowed to operate with impunity.
1
Well yeah I mean God forbid they enforce laws that make sense and are for everyone's safety like using turn signals and such. What the hell lets just do away with these laws and let everyone do what they want on the road.
I feel sad that blacks are targeted unfairly because of their appearance. Sadly, the statistics of crime in the black community can not be ignored. The goal of policing is to stop crime before it happens. The real victims are the people reported on in this story.
5
I'm am neither shocked nor surprised. Just sad. We must keep fighting to eradicate America's original sin which began in 1619.
12
As an old white man i stay clear of anyone with a uniform badge and gun.
Even rent a cops are potential trouble.
I grew up on Staten Island, spent 30 years in North Carolina. and the last five in San Diego.
San Diego police are the best i have ever witnessed. I base my judgement on body language. The police here are more relaxed.
Having said that i still turn away when they approach.
I see the police as predators, herding the cattle and bringing in the cash.
Everything in America is a business and a scam.
I
Even rent a cops are potential trouble.
I grew up on Staten Island, spent 30 years in North Carolina. and the last five in San Diego.
San Diego police are the best i have ever witnessed. I base my judgement on body language. The police here are more relaxed.
Having said that i still turn away when they approach.
I see the police as predators, herding the cattle and bringing in the cash.
Everything in America is a business and a scam.
I
45
You are so right: "Everything in America is a business and a scam." America is rotten in it's core. There is so much hate in America because Barack Obama became president. And this is what has fueled much of this white police officer overzealously using deadly force against Black American citizens. Yes, it is bad all over, but worse in Tea Party Red states. Confederate states have changed little since the 60's. It is a double-standard in all phases of American life. And, the ones that benefit from it want to keep it that way; as long as the powers that be/the institutions give them their Bill of Right's.....the hell with minorities.
3
That driving while black is dangerous is well-established fact--this article reinforces the fact with more evidence. Whenever I read such discriminating and illegal practices of Police, it reminds me one of the encounters I had with a policeman in New York City. I am Asian-American. One day, 10 years ago, in 2005, a policeman stopped me at a cross-section. He came to me, asked for my driving licence, and then returned my license with three tickets. Surprised, I asked him what was wrong? He said, "Kids not wearing seat belts." I had my two kids in back seats. They, 7 and 9 years old, shouted back, "That's not true, we are wearing seat belts." Policeman didn't say a word--he got into his car and drove away. In the next traffic stop, I found him next to my car. I asked him, "How could you give such false tickets?" He said, "If you say one more world, I will take you to station." I said, "Okay, take us to the station." He then drove away fast, leaving us behind. I went to Traffic Court--the "judge" believed the policeman's fantastic story. That was my first experience with American courts--I never knew how funny these courts are. They are worse than police. So much written about police, why nobody writes anything about the nuisance courts--African-Americans are 1100% more likely to be convicted than Whites--how can that be possible if the "judges" have any respect to the law?
161
You're right -- the courts are in cahoots with the cops. Cops can lie all they want, and the judges don't mind and will support them.
I have a neighbor risking bankruptcy in appeal, after serving time in jail, community service, because he does not want to remain a convicted felon. One count was overturned, so he was supposed to get restitution, but he thinks that the courts will find a way out of that too. That restitution would fund his appeal.
He now risks losing housing as a convicted felon, can't vote, and had to take a second job.
The judge spouted lies at the sentencing -- nothing to be done at that time. This process will take years.
He's a white male.
I have a neighbor risking bankruptcy in appeal, after serving time in jail, community service, because he does not want to remain a convicted felon. One count was overturned, so he was supposed to get restitution, but he thinks that the courts will find a way out of that too. That restitution would fund his appeal.
He now risks losing housing as a convicted felon, can't vote, and had to take a second job.
The judge spouted lies at the sentencing -- nothing to be done at that time. This process will take years.
He's a white male.
3
Seems like most of what police use to justify their pay is enforce drug laws. Do police officers swear an oath to uphold the Constitution? Where in the Constitution is the government authorized to control what substances people put in their bodies? Remember, when the people wanted to ban alcohol they had to pass a Constitutional amendment to do so. Where is the amendment prohibiting other drugs? Nowhere.
How many fewer police would there be if they stopped enforcing drug laws? How many fewer complaints about what police do if there were 75% less of them? Instead of trying to regulate or control what all these police do, start by cuting their ranks by 75%!
And what have police ever done for me? Only write exorbitant tickets. Seriously if the ticket for speeding or an accidental safety infraction was $20-$50 i wouldn't complain but $175+? And when my house alarm went off they showed up 6 hours later. I would stop paying them if I were not forced to pay them.
How many fewer police would there be if they stopped enforcing drug laws? How many fewer complaints about what police do if there were 75% less of them? Instead of trying to regulate or control what all these police do, start by cuting their ranks by 75%!
And what have police ever done for me? Only write exorbitant tickets. Seriously if the ticket for speeding or an accidental safety infraction was $20-$50 i wouldn't complain but $175+? And when my house alarm went off they showed up 6 hours later. I would stop paying them if I were not forced to pay them.
3
Whether white black or Hispanic, religious whatever...biases and hate never are blind or justice. Too many laws, lies, and too much power are causing this injusice.
Unaccountable aggressions in abuses fuels the egos and protectionisms excuse that "we are the law" so too bad.
This unequal class of citizens below, bowed, and cuffed subservant to uncheck abuse must be reigned in now.
Unaccountable aggressions in abuses fuels the egos and protectionisms excuse that "we are the law" so too bad.
This unequal class of citizens below, bowed, and cuffed subservant to uncheck abuse must be reigned in now.
3
Is it possible to have a conversation with police anymore? Is anyone in the Police doing any soul searching about the fascist streak that is increasingly on display? Or is it just one big defensive "bleep you" to the rest of the world, because we just plain don't understand what they are up against?
They talk as if they are under siege; regardless that they carry war grade weapons. They want to shoot a black man in the back, they just don't want anyone recording their deed. They deal with the complete scum of the earth every day; they think that is what everyone is like. To one extent or another. It is us-against-them; them being everyone who is not police. What begins as healthy caution, quickly degenerates into systemic paranoia, and victimization of people who have no recourse. Of course the police will stop cars driven by blacks; that is the easiest way to demonstrate they are doing something. Funding cities and police departments on the backs of fines levied on the most vulnerable population occurs, because it can. It is up to us to impose a legal system in which it cannot.
If this story, with slight changes in names and places appeared once a week in every newspaper for 40 years, it would resonate with readers; i.e., the story remains the same. I hope the police can reflect and fix this, otherwise we will become - yet in another way - a third world country.
Kalidan
They talk as if they are under siege; regardless that they carry war grade weapons. They want to shoot a black man in the back, they just don't want anyone recording their deed. They deal with the complete scum of the earth every day; they think that is what everyone is like. To one extent or another. It is us-against-them; them being everyone who is not police. What begins as healthy caution, quickly degenerates into systemic paranoia, and victimization of people who have no recourse. Of course the police will stop cars driven by blacks; that is the easiest way to demonstrate they are doing something. Funding cities and police departments on the backs of fines levied on the most vulnerable population occurs, because it can. It is up to us to impose a legal system in which it cannot.
If this story, with slight changes in names and places appeared once a week in every newspaper for 40 years, it would resonate with readers; i.e., the story remains the same. I hope the police can reflect and fix this, otherwise we will become - yet in another way - a third world country.
Kalidan
36
If making eye contact with a cop is risky, then a conversation seems to be beyond the pale.
6
I think you nailed an important aspect of the problem, writing how they deal with scum of the earth every day. It must be very hard to maintain a healthy perspective when your daily job is dealing with scum, relentlessly day after day. I doubt I could do it. Perhaps there should be automatic rotations, between assignments to police the worst of our society, and maybe a desk job, or a friendlier community beat.
I remember years ago while working in a factory when my car broke down and my co worker would give me a lift to work every morning for about 3 weeks till my car was fixed. We must of been stopped by NYPD about 3 or 4 times during that time, we both had the same type of car 1999 tahoe. He was never issued a ticket. It was always the same thing license and registration. I would take the same route and had never been stopped. He always said to me its because DWB "Driving While Black" and it happens more frequently then you expected.
55
The issue of 'selective enforcement' is wider than just Black v. White. What about Hispanics? Old v. Young. Female v. Male. Etc, etc. With due respect, I know more than one young lady who has gotten off with a warning after flirting with the officer. (Yes, really). I suspect a young guy driving a 'hot car' might be more carefully handled than a 69-year old male driving a 1996 gray Honda.
In short, cops are humans and are influenced by their backgrounds, emotions, fears and libidos as much as anyone else. This isn't a matter of racism. It's a matter of how human minds operate in a confusing world. As for officers who deliberately and maliciously use race as a criteria for law enforcement, I have one question: Where are their bosses?
In short, cops are humans and are influenced by their backgrounds, emotions, fears and libidos as much as anyone else. This isn't a matter of racism. It's a matter of how human minds operate in a confusing world. As for officers who deliberately and maliciously use race as a criteria for law enforcement, I have one question: Where are their bosses?
7
Per 2013 data from the CDC the death rate due to firearm homicides among blacks is about 10 times greater among blacks than whites, a figure which is the tip of the iceberg concerning crime overall. This is reflected in the actions of police when approaching blacks. The data in article noting how often black drivers had contraband suggests that in spite of the order of magnitude difference in firearm homicides between blacks and whites that only a small portion of blacks are committing the crimes, a common sense conclusion. The data also suggests that police judgement regarding which blacks to stop is not effective, excepting a few jurisdictions, and that other attributes besides race need to be considered. This will require training, most certainly with the assistance of the black community, which will require better relations than we've seen to date. Note that better relations should not result in an increase in crime, instead it should result in a dramatic reduction in the crime rates of affected neighborhoods.
8
I'm a 62-year-old white woman, and I admit that I'm also a little afraid of the police. I never used to be, but I've read so much about their brutal tactics, and I've seen the videos where they beat even the black women they stop that it makes me nervous. I've gotten two speeding tickets in my 40 years of driving, and both times I was quiet and scared.
But, why should I cower in the presence of an officer? Why should anyone? Why can't I (or anyone) ask questions about why they've been stopped? Why shouldn't I (or anyone) be able to express an opinion about the situation, the same way I would in any other encounter with a government worker that I felt was unfair or unreasonable? None of these things should result in a beating.
When I was a kid in small-town PA, our police walked the neighborhoods, stopped to chat with people, smiled at the kids. The cop in my neighborhood sometimes helped my mom carry in groceries and when my brother's dog was hit by a car right in front of my brother, the officer that came to the scene of the accident comforted my brother until my dad arrived.
I'm not saying we can return to those days. I know police face life-and-death situations, but they need to be trained to be kind and reasonable, too. Back then everyone didn't have guns and police weren't the targets they are today. But, there must be a middle ground between today's military tactics and yesterday's friendly innocence.
But, why should I cower in the presence of an officer? Why should anyone? Why can't I (or anyone) ask questions about why they've been stopped? Why shouldn't I (or anyone) be able to express an opinion about the situation, the same way I would in any other encounter with a government worker that I felt was unfair or unreasonable? None of these things should result in a beating.
When I was a kid in small-town PA, our police walked the neighborhoods, stopped to chat with people, smiled at the kids. The cop in my neighborhood sometimes helped my mom carry in groceries and when my brother's dog was hit by a car right in front of my brother, the officer that came to the scene of the accident comforted my brother until my dad arrived.
I'm not saying we can return to those days. I know police face life-and-death situations, but they need to be trained to be kind and reasonable, too. Back then everyone didn't have guns and police weren't the targets they are today. But, there must be a middle ground between today's military tactics and yesterday's friendly innocence.
165
'...why should I cower in the presence of an officer? Why should anyone? Why can't I (or anyone) ask questions about why they've been stopped? Why shouldn't I (or anyone) be able to express an opinion about the situation...?'
Because anyone with a grain of common sense knows that it is best not to argue with a person with a gun?
Because anyone with a grain of common sense knows that it is best not to argue with a person with a gun?
2
Police brutality, an abuse of power that seems ubiquitous with racial profiling, has become so routine that denouncing it publicly seems to have lost its 'punch'...as it keeps occurring with unsatisfying regularity. Why should this continue to occur in spite of the evidence that the color of our skin is not commensurate with the suspicion (usually not confirmed) of crime or even misdemeanor? Why should the officers hired to maintain order and justice be the first ones to break it? Perhaps the hiring of poorly educated and prejudiced individuals may be the culprit, folks just waiting to be empowered with a badge, and a gun, to show who is the boss? Where is the friendly officer, who is part of the community, who understands its culture, and who is able to defuse tensions before they escalate? Why are officers (and one is too many) so ready to use abusive language, even kill, for minor infractions, especially when dealing with somebody that happens to be black? Can't we be nicer to each other, smile for a change, lend a hand, teach others the civic duties we all ought to follow, in a civilized manner? Brute force ought not be our greeting, nor yelling, when alternate friendlier methods have been proven right. This does not mean to belittle the dedication and courage needed to do police work, but we all need to be treated with respect, with no preconceived 'blind spots' of prejudice. Enough already.Restore the dignity police officers require, and deserve.
13
So the cops were more likely to find drugs, guns, and other contraband when vehicles with white drivers were searched, but they continue to stop and search blacks at a much higher rate. It certainly raises the question of whether the cops are racist or dumb or both.
193
I am a white male and have (unfortunately) mostly had negative experiences with the police. It is clear that there still is a lot racism in this country - both inside and outside of police departments. If they behave less than professionally towards me, I'm sure it's much worse for young black men.
That being said, you have to understand the numbers correctly. Yes, in most cases white people who were searched were more likely to have contraband than black people who were searched. However, since they were much less likely to be searched, the average white driver is still much less likely to have contraband. You have to multiply the probabilities. If black drivers are stopped 3 times as often and are 80% less likely to have contraband, then the average black driver is 2.4 times as likely to have contraband as the average white driver (= 3 x 0.8), assuming equal targeting efficiency for both races. So, the cops are profiling, it is not perfectly efficient, it may not be fair, but it is not dumb.
That being said, you have to understand the numbers correctly. Yes, in most cases white people who were searched were more likely to have contraband than black people who were searched. However, since they were much less likely to be searched, the average white driver is still much less likely to have contraband. You have to multiply the probabilities. If black drivers are stopped 3 times as often and are 80% less likely to have contraband, then the average black driver is 2.4 times as likely to have contraband as the average white driver (= 3 x 0.8), assuming equal targeting efficiency for both races. So, the cops are profiling, it is not perfectly efficient, it may not be fair, but it is not dumb.
More likely they are just better at profiling white people. An average ratio of .85 when comparing against populations of vastly different sizes isn't terrible. It would be interesting to see the actual success numbers rather than relative ratios.
Those statistics are presented in a manner that is apparently very misleading to a lot of people. Cops are only slightly less likely to find contraband when vehicles with black drivers are searched, despite searching black drivers at a much higher rate. Just look at Torrington, Conn, where black drivers are searched at a rate 5x that of white drivers. This article tells us that black drivers who are searched are 0.8x as likely to have contraband compared to white drivers. If you put it differently (and more honestly), black drivers are only 1.25x less likely to be found with contraband, despite being searched 5x more often. Based on these statistics, cops are not "racist or dumb or both". Based on these statistics, they are doing a fair job at identifying drivers who are most likely to be carrying contraband. This NYT "investigation" is clearly an example of someone's agenda getting in the way of clear and honest reporting.
I am a white female. I have had a number of positive encounters with my local police over my lifetime, albeit very few encounters. Never been arrested. But the events and revelations of the last several years have caused a new set of emotions to arise when I see a law enforcement officer on the street: fear and dislike. I want to get away from them as fast as I can. I can't imagine how much stronger those feelings would be if I were an African American male. I know that I am tarring every officer with the same brush. I know there are lots of good officers. But our police have a real problem in terms of public perception at this moment. What are they going to do about it? How are they going to restore trust? I don't know. But I do know they won't restore trust with lame excuses about why they treat one segment of the population the way they do. We need a new police culture in this country. Everywhere, not just in the south.
544
I'm white and I've never seen a cop do anything good, unless you want to count their acting as crossing guards during parades. I've only seen cops bully, intimidate, and harass. That's my experience.
4
I like what you are saying, but without the explicit support of non-black citizens a new police culture won't happen. The lack of outrage by the "us group" makes it implicitly OK for the police to target and mistreat the "them" group. Every time an obviously white poster pooh-poohs concerns about bias it makes it easier for another officer to unfairly target a black citizen.
And I would bet my inheritance that if data were re-examined adding a grade for shade of darkness that the disparities would be even greater.
I too am white but most of my encounters and what I have witnessed of police activities have definitely been on the negative side. It started with the unprovoked beating of a black man and the reluctance of two white officers with whom I was eating breakfast to stepping in and correct the situation. The most recent encounter was two abusive white cops who came to my house and delivered a moving traffic violation without having been anywhere in the vicinity (neighbor with a grudge).
I may know my rights as a citizen but I wouldn't dare make a complaint as I know darn well there would be retaliation. I don't trust the cops any more than I would relish a close encounter with a rattlesnake. They are assumed by our court system to be truthful, but they don't even hold themselves and their friends and family accountable for obeying the law.
And I would bet my inheritance that if data were re-examined adding a grade for shade of darkness that the disparities would be even greater.
I too am white but most of my encounters and what I have witnessed of police activities have definitely been on the negative side. It started with the unprovoked beating of a black man and the reluctance of two white officers with whom I was eating breakfast to stepping in and correct the situation. The most recent encounter was two abusive white cops who came to my house and delivered a moving traffic violation without having been anywhere in the vicinity (neighbor with a grudge).
I may know my rights as a citizen but I wouldn't dare make a complaint as I know darn well there would be retaliation. I don't trust the cops any more than I would relish a close encounter with a rattlesnake. They are assumed by our court system to be truthful, but they don't even hold themselves and their friends and family accountable for obeying the law.
5
FEAR is the appropriate emotion. Fear of what might happen if you commit a crime.. The policeman are supposed to stop you from committing a crime. Fear is good.
I condemn discriminatory practices by the police, and clearly there is much work to be done to fix our criminal justice system. But as someone who has commuted via the Major Deegan every day, my experience is that young, male, reckless, and disproportionately "dirvers of color" on that road wilfully violate every rule in the book. I don't know whether or not it is an expression of pent-up frustration, acts of defiance against an unfair society, or simple joy-riding, but it is painfully evident day after day.
I am sure that this comment will be much condemned by the well-meaning and the self-righteous, but I am sure that few of those who do so can actually claim the experience of navigating city highways.
I am sure that this comment will be much condemned by the well-meaning and the self-righteous, but I am sure that few of those who do so can actually claim the experience of navigating city highways.
78
You can't draw such a conclusion without doing a careful statistical analysis. It's extremely likely that you notice the black people who drive recklessly but miss the white people who drive recklessly, as well as the black people who drive safely. If you had ever done scientific research involving statistical analysis, you would know how difficult it is to remove bias from one's observations and methods.
10
What nonsense. Go to Connecticut where wealthy white people drive like complete lunatics in their beamers and lexi. Once I was stuck in traffic on I95 and a guy was trying to drive between lanes. White of course.
There is no correspondence between skin color and rude driving. Its all in your head.
There is no correspondence between skin color and rude driving. Its all in your head.
22
I live in St George, UT which is almost entirely white. On my commute I witness flagrant law breaking every day by about 30% of drivers. It is exasperating. I am not talking about just driving 5mph over the limit, but driving dangerously. We have had our share of senseless car relate deaths in this town. People in general break laws. If you are surrounded by blacks you will see blacks do it. If you are surrounded by whites you will see whites do it. If you live in India you will see Indians do it.
14
The history of the Africans in America encompasses 400 years of terrorism, rape, beatings, torture, burnings, murder, discrimination and every form of physical and mental abuse that could be devised, and still they are not given full and complete civil rights.
When will it end for this horribly abused people who have done so much to build America over four centuries?
Black lives matter as much as the lives of anyone else. We must stop discriminating against them, terrorizing them, murdering them. They are a part of us and have the same human worth as any and all of us.
When will it end for this horribly abused people who have done so much to build America over four centuries?
Black lives matter as much as the lives of anyone else. We must stop discriminating against them, terrorizing them, murdering them. They are a part of us and have the same human worth as any and all of us.
277
This article dispels the myth that we live in a colorblind society when it comes to equal treatment before the law. How can communities effectively police when they see their own citizens as a revenue stream to keep their court system running. Ferguson was the canary in the mine that is finally waking up America to the racial disparities that still exist in 2015.
119
Why wasn't the ruling on the NYPD's unconstitutional "stop and frisk" system NOT the canary? Why wasn't the assassination of Fred Hampton by the Chicago Police and the FBI the canary.
Why haven't myriad other instances of racism through the years been the canaries?
Why haven't myriad other instances of racism through the years been the canaries?
3
Ferguson? That stupid kid assaulted a police officer and tried his best to wrest his firearm away. Then charged at him.
Is a study truly needed to state the obvious? A poignant history of institutionalized racism in America is so undisputed that it almost makes studies and articles like these, seem moot.
If one were to ask every Black person, anywhere in America if they ever felt threatened by the Police at one point or another, the answer would probably be an overwhelming "Yes".
That in itself should serve as proof that this problem is not only systemic, it is endemic as well.
If one were to ask every Black person, anywhere in America if they ever felt threatened by the Police at one point or another, the answer would probably be an overwhelming "Yes".
That in itself should serve as proof that this problem is not only systemic, it is endemic as well.
74
N. Smith, I think the study is necessary. I'm not surprised in the least about the outcome (nor should anybody), but hard evidence is very useful when people try to claim that systemic racism is a thing of the past.
8
@Michael Wisconsin
How many times have you been pulled over? These studies so far, have done very little to amend a situation borne out of ignorance and prejudice. And until this type of behavior is addressed, the problem will not go away. "Hard evidence" until now, has had very limited results.
How many times have you been pulled over? These studies so far, have done very little to amend a situation borne out of ignorance and prejudice. And until this type of behavior is addressed, the problem will not go away. "Hard evidence" until now, has had very limited results.
2
Here's a tip for the Scales' brothers the next time they get pulled over for legitimate traffic infractions: stay in the car and comply with the officers' commands. Sometimes, if you're friendly and respectful, you may even be let off with a warning.
60
Tell that to to the kid in Eaton County Michigan. Please, wake up.
115
...and sometimes "if you're friendly and respectful", you might still be pulled out of your car, tasered, and hauled into jail where you die under mysterious circumstances as happened recently in Texas. No doubt you'd like to forget about that...
314
I'm speaking of this case in particular, if these gentlemen had remained in their vehicle and cooperated, they wouldn't have been treated roughly. Fact.
17
Well according to the director of the FBI if we look into this too closely and correct police procedures that are clearly unjust, we might have more traffic accidents....that's HIS convoluted logic. Pretty disturbing to think of the director having such myopic vision, isn't it?
64
Pretty disturbing to think that, if we decriminalize crimes most often committed by blacks, change the bail system to eliminate any requirement that blacks post bail for many crimes, and release from prison early blacks who have admittedly committed crimes, somehow we are going to be more safe. That's convoluted logic.
8
The evidence clearly shows that it is whites that commit more crimes, but blacks are more likely to be arrested.
As a middle aged white guy I could put on a suit and commit any number of crimes, and no one would pay any attention, because they would be too busy harassing a teenage black kid in a hoodie.
How do you fight crime when you are constantly targeting the wrong people?
As a middle aged white guy I could put on a suit and commit any number of crimes, and no one would pay any attention, because they would be too busy harassing a teenage black kid in a hoodie.
How do you fight crime when you are constantly targeting the wrong people?
8
The point, Grant, is that those same crimes when committed by whites result in far less contact with police, far fewer arrests, and far fewer escalations by the police.
4
And in a leafy suburb like Greenwich, Connecticut, how many well dressed women are pulled over for talking on their phones, which is known to be as dangerous as driving drunk? Just watch the traffic in a "good" neighbourhood and see how many people on their phones miss lights or stop signs or pedestrians at zebra stops. And yet they can be pretty sure that even if they are stopped, which is very unlikely, they will not be arrested, much less assaulted. Just think what would happen to a young not so well dressed black man driving through those same residential neighbourhoods!
417
It has nothing to do with whether a black man is well dressed. It's that he's black. Period. We need to stop couching our "outrage" in phony scenarios.
9
A view from Dublin? Ireland? About a " leafy suburb like Greenwich?"
This is a political opinion, not a factual observation. Too many posters state their belief systems as fact.
This is a political opinion, not a factual observation. Too many posters state their belief systems as fact.
2
Those well-dressed white ladies yapping on their phones--hands-free or not--are a menace to society. Distracted driving kills thousands of people every year, and injures countless others. I hope the cops will stop harassing people of color over nothing and start harassing people of all races who text or talk on their cells while driving.
11
In Sarasota, Florida blacks are at risk and will draw police attention particularly if they cross Fruitville Road into "white Sarasota". Some things never change in America. Racism is one.
140
I grew up in Sarasota and I've never heard the term "white Sarasota".
14
One NYT article proclaims that blacks are unfairly profiled when driving, suggesting that police officers back off from aggressive screening. Another NYT article proclaims that (according to the FBI) less aggressive policing has already resulted in more crime.
Discrimination is an evil which should be fought. Crime disrupts the stability of society and threatens prosperity. Would more "race-blind" oversight (more public area cameras, more Internet surveillance) detect and deter more misbehavior? Obviously. Is law-abiding America willing to accept more generic watching by machines in order to reduce discriminatory targeting?
Discrimination is an evil which should be fought. Crime disrupts the stability of society and threatens prosperity. Would more "race-blind" oversight (more public area cameras, more Internet surveillance) detect and deter more misbehavior? Obviously. Is law-abiding America willing to accept more generic watching by machines in order to reduce discriminatory targeting?
4
Obviously! Obviously what? Supposedly London is the most watched city in the world. Is their crime rate higher, lower, the same as before it earned that distinction? Do you have that data? In many US states, police cars have cameras that record and store every license plate it sees. Do those states have less drunk driving than states that do not have such cameras?
BTW, it was MADD and aggressive prosecution that moved drunk driving from a "oh, it's not that bad," to a DUI will potentially ruin your life - not cameras or more aggressive policing.
BTW, it was MADD and aggressive prosecution that moved drunk driving from a "oh, it's not that bad," to a DUI will potentially ruin your life - not cameras or more aggressive policing.
1
The head of the FBI admitted that he had no statistics to back up his assertion of the relationship.
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Correlation is not causation.
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Careful Annie, I would not expect too many people who read this article to understand that.
4
Correlation is not causation until you come up with a theory for the causal mechanism, and find more correlations that are consistent with that mechanism.
When the government of Ferguson Mo is caught systematically using police violence to raise revenue, it is not just a correlation, it is causation.
When the government of Ferguson Mo is caught systematically using police violence to raise revenue, it is not just a correlation, it is causation.
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Coincidence as an argument can carry you only so far.
8
This is a good article on using policing data to identify trends in law enforcement that need to be changed. But it only lightly touches on the real problem, in my opinion; the use of data by the police to measure employee productivity.
As a federal law enforcement officer for 22 years, each year I was given goals (read quotas) and measured as an employee by how well I met those goals. Convictions were better than acquittals, felonies were better than misdemeanors, large amounts of money recovered or seized were better than small amounts. Periodically the agency I worked for gave priority to different types of cases as well. The agency set up a reporting system that allowed them to easily isolate this data for my yearly review. In response, I and my co-workers gamed the system by attempting to find and work cases that produced the most 'bang for the buck' in terms of results. Not because we were racist, but because we wished to be viewed as productive employees.
There are racist cops, just as there are racists in all walks of life. But I suspect the disproportion in traffic stops and searches is mostly caused by the perception of officers as to what will be the most productive tactic for them. The question of how to measure police productivity is a difficult one; no department is going to look at an individual and say low numbers are an indicator of how well they're doing their job. They will say the officer is not hard working and/or not competent.
As a federal law enforcement officer for 22 years, each year I was given goals (read quotas) and measured as an employee by how well I met those goals. Convictions were better than acquittals, felonies were better than misdemeanors, large amounts of money recovered or seized were better than small amounts. Periodically the agency I worked for gave priority to different types of cases as well. The agency set up a reporting system that allowed them to easily isolate this data for my yearly review. In response, I and my co-workers gamed the system by attempting to find and work cases that produced the most 'bang for the buck' in terms of results. Not because we were racist, but because we wished to be viewed as productive employees.
There are racist cops, just as there are racists in all walks of life. But I suspect the disproportion in traffic stops and searches is mostly caused by the perception of officers as to what will be the most productive tactic for them. The question of how to measure police productivity is a difficult one; no department is going to look at an individual and say low numbers are an indicator of how well they're doing their job. They will say the officer is not hard working and/or not competent.
65
You mean that searching elderly white women for illegal drugs is a waste of time? Who knew?
6
Except for the small fact presented in the article that searches of whites were more fruitful than those of blacks...
5
From the Washington Post:
"Blacks are far more likely to be arrested for selling or possessing drugs than whites, even though whites use drugs at the same rate. And whites are actually more likely to sell drugs:
"Whites were about 45 percent more likely than blacks to sell drugs in 1980, according to an analysis of the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth by economist Robert Fairlie. This was consistent with a 1989 survey of youth in Boston. … the 2012 National Survey on Drug Use and Health shows that 6.6 percent of white adolescents and young adults (aged 12 to 25) sold drugs, compared to just 5.0 percent of blacks (a 32 percent difference)."
Some fairness, huh Jonathan?
"Blacks are far more likely to be arrested for selling or possessing drugs than whites, even though whites use drugs at the same rate. And whites are actually more likely to sell drugs:
"Whites were about 45 percent more likely than blacks to sell drugs in 1980, according to an analysis of the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth by economist Robert Fairlie. This was consistent with a 1989 survey of youth in Boston. … the 2012 National Survey on Drug Use and Health shows that 6.6 percent of white adolescents and young adults (aged 12 to 25) sold drugs, compared to just 5.0 percent of blacks (a 32 percent difference)."
Some fairness, huh Jonathan?
7
"Because officers typically cannot see who commits a moving violation like speeding, he said, it also “tends to eliminate the disparity in who is being stopped.”
This is not really the case. A study on the New Jersey turnpike, where non-police observers just noted the speeds of vehicles and the race of the drivers, found that while blacks were only about 15% of the total drivers, they were about 35% of the drivers going over 75 MPH. So by only stopping speeders, the police will stop a disproportionate number of black drivers.
This is not really the case. A study on the New Jersey turnpike, where non-police observers just noted the speeds of vehicles and the race of the drivers, found that while blacks were only about 15% of the total drivers, they were about 35% of the drivers going over 75 MPH. So by only stopping speeders, the police will stop a disproportionate number of black drivers.
79
When I am on the side of the road and someone speeds past me, I darn well can see whether the person is dark skinned or pale skinned. The amount of excuses by cops for obvious deliberate racial profiling is not helping their image.
42
Yes but unlike with non moving violations, you can't say that speeders are being stopped unjustly. There's an objective criteria, and it feels fair that it be evenly applied regardless of the race of the drivers.
14
That's amazing. Please cite the study and provide a link to it
14