This kind of thing is always a danger when extremists, of any kind, are involved.
3
What a friend we have in Jesus.
3
An especially troubling part of this atrocity is not mentioned in this story. The Leonard boys' parents were part of the little mob that beat one of the young men (their son) to death and injured the second son. So, in addition to unrelated "church" crazies, a mother, father, and half sister engaged in violent beatings of their own sons/brothers.
6
They must share belief with ISIS and the Taliban. Unfortunately, they do not worship the true god - MONEY!
1
Back to the basics of religion literally means returning to superstition and mysticism — what humans have resorted to in the absence of knowledge and science. Religious dogma simply adds layers of arbitrary, capricious, fabricated nonsense meant to exert control over believers. Sincerity doesn't alter was fools people are for allowing religion to dictate any aspect of their lives.
Eclectic Pragmatist — http://eclectic-pragmatist.tumblr.com/
Eclectic Pragmatist — https://medium.com/eclectic-pragmatism
Eclectic Pragmatist — http://eclectic-pragmatist.tumblr.com/
Eclectic Pragmatist — https://medium.com/eclectic-pragmatism
2
No one will ever convince me that organized religion is anything but mind control, and its congregants a reservoir of manipulated, superstitious people. The story of this cult is just a gross example of this paradigm.
What do I believe in? Mathematics and Science.
What do I believe in? Mathematics and Science.
15
Convince people you are God's agent and they will do almost anything you say. The truth is God has no agents on earth or it would not be the mess it is, or perhaps, more likely, there is no God involved in humans' daily lives. We are on our own.
9
Whenever someone tells you they know the truth about god they are lying with great arrogance! How could a humble person believe they know what 'normal' humans cannot know?
I am not against churches or religions as I don't claim to know what is true and I think churches do a lot of good in this world. But let's not pretend that just because someone has a degree or as memorized all the details in their gospel makes them somehow closer to god than the average person.
While I am against capital punishment I want to kill anyone who puts the value of ancient scripture above the value of a real, breathing human being.
I hope there is a hell when I read about people like these.
I am not against churches or religions as I don't claim to know what is true and I think churches do a lot of good in this world. But let's not pretend that just because someone has a degree or as memorized all the details in their gospel makes them somehow closer to god than the average person.
While I am against capital punishment I want to kill anyone who puts the value of ancient scripture above the value of a real, breathing human being.
I hope there is a hell when I read about people like these.
5
And atheists are the most distrusted group in the US? Hmmmm
13
Where is the outrage from the Christian right demanding that people allow "religious freedom"? If this is how that religion wants to practice their beliefs, should we, as Americans, allow that?
Or do they get to pick and choose which religious beliefs are worth defending?
Or do they get to pick and choose which religious beliefs are worth defending?
7
I can live with religion being the 'opiate' of the masses, but not the cudgel.
5
We should eliminate the death penalty for murder except for cases where the murder is committed in the name of religion.
3
Although certainly less extreme, the catholic church as I knew it in the 50's and 60's exhibited many of these same attributes. And I would expect that most organized religions do also. Anyone who has a need for belief in a god is ripe for exploitation by a cannier, more aggressive, and self assured person. Luckily there was something in my environment and genes that made me question the dogma from an early age and when I finally stopped attending services I felt no remorse nor sense of loss. It's a pity that so many others cannot take that path.
16
I agree - how is this place any different than any other religion? My parents thought I was Catholic. They were wrong - I'm an Atheist.
1
Religions need sheep for their flocks and there is no lack of sheep in this world.
4
Religion is where as few as two people claim to share beliefs they ascribe to an envisioned creator, supporting each other to require strict adherence to those beliefs -- to the inevitable detriment of non-believers . . . Whereas, two people sharing thoughts about Good and Evil, with mutual respect and curiosity --- and no expectation of change in the other -- have greatly increased the possibility of not only their individual wellbeing and happiness, but a possibly lifelong good and productive relationship between them.
3
Organized religion is the world's most socially accepted psychological disorder.
More than occasionally, the disorder metastasizes into full-blown evil.
Mankind should always be weary of religion and all psychological disorders and the many tricks they play on the human mind.
More than occasionally, the disorder metastasizes into full-blown evil.
Mankind should always be weary of religion and all psychological disorders and the many tricks they play on the human mind.
24
I read half of this article and stopped. These people are not Christians. They are false prophets. Satan exists even in churches, and here is proof.
Pray for them - they could use it.
Pray for them - they could use it.
2
And it's all tax deductible and tax exempt!
21
What a terribly sad and scary story of a Bible group gone awry. The Leonard brothers witnessed a true hell on earth.
3
There's not much separation between bible-based cults and bible-based sects. I would differentiate between them by saying a cult is single celled entity, while sects are multi-celled and metastatic. The Irwins are the former trying to attain the latter.
It is tempting to compare "Christian" cults and sects to ISIS and radical Islam in their unforgiving rigidity and ultra-literal interpretation/use of the bible's most egregious passages in the old testament. I also find comparison with the Tea Party and the Freedom Caucus in their approach to political domination of the Republican party.
Extremes of religion and extremes of politics are often bedfellows.
It is tempting to compare "Christian" cults and sects to ISIS and radical Islam in their unforgiving rigidity and ultra-literal interpretation/use of the bible's most egregious passages in the old testament. I also find comparison with the Tea Party and the Freedom Caucus in their approach to political domination of the Republican party.
Extremes of religion and extremes of politics are often bedfellows.
18
The same psychological dynamics obtains in ostensibly non-religious groups and societies, in which the members totally identify with the leader-centered ideology. There are plenty of examples, from Nazi Germany to Pol Pot's Cambodia, to North Korea. Religious zealots often cite such societies as examples of the dangers of "atheism". But secular totalitarian ideologies are, in fact, substitute religions. Whether your holy scripture is "Das kapital", The Book of Mormon, the Koran, or the Bible, once you give up reason in favor of faith, you are on the road to mental slavery. It is in fact true that these who believe absurdities commute atrocities - the key word being "believe".
16
Most Christians (and I use the term in the broadest sense) would find the conduct of this Word of Life Christian Church and its leaders to be abhorrent.
While some readers may dislike Christianity in any form, please recognize that most churches and denominations do not devolve like this church did.
While some readers may dislike Christianity in any form, please recognize that most churches and denominations do not devolve like this church did.
13
And yet, Frank, they do...
8
While what you say is true, it is also true that it is the deferential nature of the religious that encourages congregants to subjugate their own consciences to the superior wisdom of church leaders perceived as "called" and therefore closer to Biblical interpretations of God. That is why politicians have infiltrated religious institutions seeking a captive, subservient and like it or not, partially thought controlled assemblage. It is no coincidence that a pastor employed black churches as front and center of the black civil rights movement, in that case using church influence for good. But such is not always the case, as with Word of Life, and in the larger political arena of contemporary America. While this case is extreme, if you doubt my take on this check out some Christian talk radio as you drive through rural areas of Tennessee, Kentucky, Ohio and no doubt many other states. What you will hear is hate being preached (with a backdrop of the sanctity of gun ownership) not far removed from advocating violence against anyone perceived as pro-choice or pro-gay. We, as a nation, ignore this phenomena at our peril.
5
This is only a "church" in delusional name only -- it had something like 20 members.
“Unless you live through something like that, it’s hard for anyone to grasp,” Mr. Ames’s cousin, Elizabeth Ames, said. “So many people go, ‘Well, why didn’t you leave sooner?’ You don’t realize you’re breathing carbon dioxide until you breathe oxygen again.”
I agree that I cannot grasp nor understand how these people and others in similar situations believe physical abuse, torture, intimidation and now death is endorsed by God and the Bible.
This flock was not only misled by Tiffanie Irwin, it appears they were equally brainwashed to the point where the parents of Lucas Leonard actually played a direct role in his slow and painful death. Lord knows how deeply scared and traumatized his younger brother, Christopher, will be.
Sanctioned physical abuse by religious members of its congregation based on their own twisted dogmatic interpretation of the Bible will never end well.
32
I agree, it is hard to grasp and understand how torture, abuse, and intimidation are endorsed by god and the bible. Then I think of slavery, subjugation of women, and homophobia;all have been endorsed by god and the bible at some point in time. The bible and god's word are all interpreted by people who may or may not be virtuous.
7
Excellent points and examples!
Another triumph of religious belief.
Yet more cruel and crazy acts being done in the name of imaginary beings.
Throughout history, the measurable good done by religions is effortlessly eclipsed by the wars, purges and bigotry done in its name.
As is traditional for most religions, the cruelty extends to the classroom where children are abused physiologically to perpetual the myth.
Yet more cruel and crazy acts being done in the name of imaginary beings.
Throughout history, the measurable good done by religions is effortlessly eclipsed by the wars, purges and bigotry done in its name.
As is traditional for most religions, the cruelty extends to the classroom where children are abused physiologically to perpetual the myth.
33
In Oregon a couple of weeks ago, college shooter Christopher Harper-Mercer told students to state their religion, then murdered those who said they were Christians--because he was an atheist who disliked organized religion. Using your logic, Harper-Mercer demonstrates "yet more cruel and crazy acts being done in the name of" atheism. Except we know the vast majority of atheists aren't mass murderers, just as the vast majority of Christians aren't killers, either. It's not religion or atheism per se that's the problem; it's idiocy on the part of certain outliers. And every faith, or anti-faith, has those outliers, because it's made up of human beings. Please refine your reasoning a bit. Or a lot.
5
Oh a vision to move into the entire third floor of a large house and run a small zoo?
Wasn't it Susan B Anthony who said that
" I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" ?
Wasn't it Susan B Anthony who said that
" I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" ?
72
"Fools and fanatics are always so certain, while the wise always have doubts", Bertram Russell, the very wise agnostic, maybe not verbatim, but close.
4
Every last instance of legislated respect given to religious fraudsters is unconstitutional and should be terminated forthwith.
49
Including tax free status. It is as if nobody actually reads the first phrase of the first amendment. The founder apparently believed religious intolerance was something to be feared at least on the level of the lack of religious freedom.
2
Whatever building that housed this cult needs to be torn down and to disappear without a trace.
12
No. Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.
4
Place not your faith in all-powerful spiritual messengers named Tiffanie.
39
Ia this group in any way related to Word of Life Bible Camp and College in Schroon Lake, NY? This was/is? an Evangelical Christian establishment that I attended as a child. It was not abusive or cult-like but perhaps this is an offshoot?
I don't think so. Local upstate TV reports had 2 churches with similar names who were not affiliated with this group
4
No, this is unaffiliated with the church of the same name in Schroon Lake. The folks from Schroon Lake were quite vocal on the local newspaper site about having no affiliation with them whatsoever.
There is no connection between this group and Word of Life Fellowship in Schroon Lake, NY.
It is surprising what God will tell his congregational leaders to do to the flock. The lord works in mysterious ways!
10
What kind of God is it that will let his followers commit murder in his name?
This is a recap of human history writ small.
38
When I read an article like this, Jomestowm II, it makes me wish, even though its an unworkable fantasy, that all organized religion be banned and people left to their personal secular beliefs in a secular society, But, it IS an unworkable fantasy. Like minded people will always come together in often life enhancing religions groups. All I can say to anyone joining ANY religious group is: "be careful of the company you keep."
29
That is nuts on a variety of levels. First off, this is a group of loonies numbering about 20 members by the end. It is not representative of any mainstream church of any recognized religion. The story is in the news precisely because it is SO BIZARRE -- you don't see this happening in regular churches, mosque or synagogues.
So to blame "all religions" is ridiculous. And as bad this assault was, it was one death -- the Jonestown incident murdered 900 people! That is false equivalence at its best.
So to blame "all religions" is ridiculous. And as bad this assault was, it was one death -- the Jonestown incident murdered 900 people! That is false equivalence at its best.
Most people forget what Judaism, Christianity and Islam are about:
1) God created a perfect world with perfect humans;
2) Satan subverted God's perfect world and humans became imperfect;
3) All humans must seek atonement or salvation before the world is destroyed and re-created.
Whether one believes in this system or not, in the Biblical sense literally nothing else matters except 3).
1) God created a perfect world with perfect humans;
2) Satan subverted God's perfect world and humans became imperfect;
3) All humans must seek atonement or salvation before the world is destroyed and re-created.
Whether one believes in this system or not, in the Biblical sense literally nothing else matters except 3).
4
That is not what Judaism is about. Not by a long shot.
16
Don't worry, it's not what Christianity is about, either.
1
Exactly what I was going to say. There was no teaching about hell or sin or destruction (and recreation) of the world. Or even about heaven. The focus was on doing good in this life and on this earth.
2
This is a sordid story that shows exactly how men and women misuse faith. This is why I don't put any faith in unelected leaders and am extremely wary of people who purport to know the will of god.
58
Margaret Atwood's exact perspective when she wrote her novel "A Handmaid's Tale" to make the very same point that all fundamentalist expressions of a religion are equally extreme and have no respect for human life or civil liberties.
3
There are many of these such congregations across the US, mostly along the "Bible Belt", with similarly antiquated and brutally dogmatic teachings. Just when I think Scientology has taken the crown, Christianity rears it's head again.
58
I also am not a fan or organized religion but there is so much else at issue here. Mental illness reeks havoc in every life it touches., Sometimes it manifests in death - whether domestic, church, school, workplace or movie theater violence. Sometimes mental illness works over time, more subtly, through emotional abuse. Control of this kind requires, among other things, authoritarian structure with a minimum level lack of transparency / oversight; this control is not uncommon in families, churches, law enforcement / prosecution agencies. When religion is at issue - perhaps in the church, perhaps in the family, you get authority supported by God - double whammy.
So religion is not necessarily the cause here, merely the commonality. Organized religion doesn't s don't have to be a means of exerting control by folks with mental illness. But it happens.
So religion is not necessarily the cause here, merely the commonality. Organized religion doesn't s don't have to be a means of exerting control by folks with mental illness. But it happens.
1
We don't need religion. With religion or without it, each human being is dedicated to explaining life, find reason for it -- while attempting to find the best place to locate ourselves within humanity: family, near and global society, and in light of the beliefs we learn and through experience, form. With religion, we are encouraged to find loopholes in the morality of dogma when judging one's self, but by those same lights, remorselessly judge others.
Even if there were no belief systems purporting to be inspired by an imagined "god," people would continue to judge each other . . . having formed opinions and prejudices arrived at through observation of life as it unfolds.
Buddha, Christ, Sun Tzu, Solomon, Laozi (Lao Tzu), Socrates, Confucius, Boethius and hundreds of others who have lit the way toward goodness had one thing in common: they sought the answers to life: Why? How? When? What? Why aren't each of us now independently finding our own paths? Are we so weak, so lacking in curiosity and goodness?
All religion is an excuse to abdicate self responsibility.
Even if there were no belief systems purporting to be inspired by an imagined "god," people would continue to judge each other . . . having formed opinions and prejudices arrived at through observation of life as it unfolds.
Buddha, Christ, Sun Tzu, Solomon, Laozi (Lao Tzu), Socrates, Confucius, Boethius and hundreds of others who have lit the way toward goodness had one thing in common: they sought the answers to life: Why? How? When? What? Why aren't each of us now independently finding our own paths? Are we so weak, so lacking in curiosity and goodness?
All religion is an excuse to abdicate self responsibility.
1
Why the public must oversee Religious extremism. The issue is not Islam, Netanyahu style extremism, Daesh, Christianity or Hinduism; it is the demand that society adhere to the beliefs of the religious extremist
11
Cults vary in degree and decree and provide untenable and unscientific postulates which can neither be proven nor disproven. In doing so the cult captures vulnerable people eager to believe.
Having been raised by one parent who belonged to such a group (Christian Science) I can easily assert that their tenants are specious in the face of science and human feeling. They all, you see, dissuade people from trusting their senses, feelings and outside opinions. The results vary in degree; the most extreme in your article . On the other side we have groups supported and chartered by society whose beliefs are nothing more than the circus candy floss -in the best sense-, and murderous in the most extreme. Christian Science was both.
Having been raised by one parent who belonged to such a group (Christian Science) I can easily assert that their tenants are specious in the face of science and human feeling. They all, you see, dissuade people from trusting their senses, feelings and outside opinions. The results vary in degree; the most extreme in your article . On the other side we have groups supported and chartered by society whose beliefs are nothing more than the circus candy floss -in the best sense-, and murderous in the most extreme. Christian Science was both.
18
Christianity has always been rife with such behavior. It's what happens when someone thinks they have the only answer for everyone. This is what Christianity is, the only answer for everyone. Anyone in the vicinity will be beaten into submission, in one way or another.
Stand clear.
Stand clear.
19
In fact, I posted a comment detailing all the parallels between the ministry described in the Gospels and what are now considered the signs of a cult - a charismatic leader who urges followers to separate themselves from their families, preaches the imminent end of the world, promotes himself as the only hotline to god, and several other points, with citations from Scripture. Either the moderator hasn't gotten to it yet or, more likely, decided it was too hot to handle.
I will simply repeat my conclusion: the difference between a religion and a cult boils down to size, money, and longevity. If you could move Jesus forward 2K years, he'd be a cult leader. And if he hadn't been crucified he might well have turned into David Koresh or Jim Jones; or at best a Sabbatai Zevi or Jacob Frank. A fluke of history turned his cult into a 'faith.'
I will simply repeat my conclusion: the difference between a religion and a cult boils down to size, money, and longevity. If you could move Jesus forward 2K years, he'd be a cult leader. And if he hadn't been crucified he might well have turned into David Koresh or Jim Jones; or at best a Sabbatai Zevi or Jacob Frank. A fluke of history turned his cult into a 'faith.'
5
That is just a hateful, bizarre accusation. This is not normal behavior from churches, which is why it has made the news. It is very rare.
Also: Christianity is not one blanket religion. There are hundreds of Christian churches and Christian sects, and they are dramatically different from one another -- Quakers are nothing like Mormons, Catholics nothing like Unitarians. And none of them, but this very weird church (with only 20 members!) beating anybody.
Also: Christianity is not one blanket religion. There are hundreds of Christian churches and Christian sects, and they are dramatically different from one another -- Quakers are nothing like Mormons, Catholics nothing like Unitarians. And none of them, but this very weird church (with only 20 members!) beating anybody.
1
These people need to be studied. We need to develop a better understanding of what make a person susceptible to such influence. There will always be narcissistic histrionic predators like Irwin. We need to protect those who can't protect themselves from such deviants.
11
There's nothing quite like the guise of religion to rationalize the most abhorrent behavior imaginable. From Pentecostalists standing idly by waiting for god to intervene while their children slowly die to Jim Jones to the unimaginable insanity in the Middle East, this conceptual silliness would be comical if it weren't so pervasive. This latest episode at the Word of Life Church isn't any different than the mind-numbing events preceding it and it won't be any different than the ones that are sure to follow.
28
For heaven's sake, when is The New York Times going to investigate Word of Life's land holdings in the Adirondacks?
They own almost all of Scroon Lake and the surrounding region, running horse farms and yacht clubs. Must be hundreds if not thousands of acres -- tax-free, I would imagine, given our lax oversight of "religious"' institutions.
Look, if a religious organization was founded after 1850 (and I'm being generous, here), it can't be much except a tax dodge.
They own almost all of Scroon Lake and the surrounding region, running horse farms and yacht clubs. Must be hundreds if not thousands of acres -- tax-free, I would imagine, given our lax oversight of "religious"' institutions.
Look, if a religious organization was founded after 1850 (and I'm being generous, here), it can't be much except a tax dodge.
36
I'm pretty sure that's a completely different church with the same name. There were local TV reports upstate making that clear.
1
I'm not sure, but I think this 'church' was just using the name and weren't part of a larger actual organized religious group.
1
Do your research, they are not associated. I share your skepticism about offshoot religious groups and am curious whether this cult got its start by purchasing curriculum from wol.com and then distorting it, but this little fringe group is not the same group that sponsors multiple camps, online trainings, and international mission trips. Sometimes a group called "Word of Life" just might be offering something that really is just that--a word of Life. As humans we are great at twisting good things into words of death: Sadly, good sense and an appreciation for all human lives being made in the image of a God and then celebrating and pursuing that together isn't the hallmark of all that many Christian or other religious groups. Jesus said he came to give life and give it abundantly--these folks lost sight of that as many have.
3
How do you know if your cult is going wrong? There is one absolute way: How are the children being treated?
When the leader shows you his favorite spank-weapon and tells you, "Now, this one REALLY stings!"..... then you are a cult that's heading for jail. Sooner or later, that whipping frevor will need bigger bodies to fuel its blood-thirst and it will end in murder.
How sad that these two young men didn't just slip away, disappear as so many others had, but it is almost impossible to be able to accurately gauge the tipping point from within the cult. The deterioration of a group is incremental, bit by bit, and a matter of degree, slow and insidious. It's the "frog in the pot" example. Place a frog in boiling water and it will hop right out. But, place the frog in cold water and then turn on the heat, and the frog will be slowly cooked to death before it realizes that it is in trouble.
These two young men knew that they were in trouble - they just didn't realize how hot the water had gotten. It was deadly hot. All of the debasements and abuse were the training ground for sticking around for more, and what they didn't know, because they were in the inside of the pot, was that, bit by bit, their masters were slipping the reins, were slipping from reality.
This was no accident. It was deliberate. It was as deliberate as leaving a child's arm raised for 20 minutes. That was the training ground for kicking holes in those young men.
....not manslaughter, but murder.
When the leader shows you his favorite spank-weapon and tells you, "Now, this one REALLY stings!"..... then you are a cult that's heading for jail. Sooner or later, that whipping frevor will need bigger bodies to fuel its blood-thirst and it will end in murder.
How sad that these two young men didn't just slip away, disappear as so many others had, but it is almost impossible to be able to accurately gauge the tipping point from within the cult. The deterioration of a group is incremental, bit by bit, and a matter of degree, slow and insidious. It's the "frog in the pot" example. Place a frog in boiling water and it will hop right out. But, place the frog in cold water and then turn on the heat, and the frog will be slowly cooked to death before it realizes that it is in trouble.
These two young men knew that they were in trouble - they just didn't realize how hot the water had gotten. It was deadly hot. All of the debasements and abuse were the training ground for sticking around for more, and what they didn't know, because they were in the inside of the pot, was that, bit by bit, their masters were slipping the reins, were slipping from reality.
This was no accident. It was deliberate. It was as deliberate as leaving a child's arm raised for 20 minutes. That was the training ground for kicking holes in those young men.
....not manslaughter, but murder.
68
Like my Dad said "don't trust anyone carrying around a bible"
28
Isn't this the same vicinity Joseph Smith discovered his " magic golden tablets " that only he ever saw and translated by putting them in the bottom of a hat? Perhaps it's something in the upstate waters!
32
Having lived in Central NY I have wondered why the Joseph Smith followers started in Central NY but also various other offbeat religions. I have read several books on these but I still haven't been able to figure out why this pocket in NY. I know there used to be revivals but they were held all over the country. I know the winters are long but this is true of all a lot of other places. Perhaps it is the water!
1
Not really quite the same vicinity, but it IS the vicinity of the Oneida Community and all their culty free-love stuff in the 19th century.
1
May I gently point out that some of the happenings presented in the Christian bible, the Torah, and the list goes on are no less far fetched than magic golden tablets. Judging religion practiced by others is not rational and is usually done to emphasize the difference between us (good) and them (bad).
The rationality of any religion is much too complicated and too interwoven with human history to be treated as a sound bite or disrespected.
The rationality of any religion is much too complicated and too interwoven with human history to be treated as a sound bite or disrespected.
2
We have a similar church in our area, (a small northern rural town). Their leaders preach the gospel of Hate. Many of my friends visited the church, which sends out flyers welcoming new people, but very few go back for a second time. This "Bible" church has a small core of followers who dislike anyone who is not part of their group. The members and leaders do not associate with any of the other 4 churches in your community. These mainstream churches, Catholic, Episcopal, and Congregational, work together on community projects and share resources. Not the "Bible" church. They think anyone not with them is their enemy.
23
Why have religious beliefs at all ?
"Religion is the opium of the masses." Karl Marx
Fortunately Capitalism is the only true religion and money the only true God, thus:
"We will hang the capitalists with the rope they sold us." V.I. Lenin.
Fortunately Capitalism is the only true religion and money the only true God, thus:
"We will hang the capitalists with the rope they sold us." V.I. Lenin.
2
"Give me that old time religion
It is good enough for me"
It is good enough for me"
3
'“Jerry would say from the pulpit, ‘You can’t trust the police; you can’t trust firemen,’ ” Ms. Ames recalled.' A cult/religious group/family's trust of outside authorities generally depends on the dominant mindset in any one locale. A woman trying to leave an FLDS compound in certain towns in the USA might be likely to find herself returned to the compound by police who were themselves FLDS members. Groups like the Word of Life Christian Church might be unlikely to flourish in a cosmopolitan area because the police/fire departments in such an area might notice dangerous situations and report them. People in general allow private religious practices to continue until someone dies or almost dies as in this case. The Puritans came to America for the religious freedom to torture, humiliate and imprison their members in stocks in the town square - something not allowed in liberal England at the time - and something Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin agreed should not happen here. It was Quakers who came up with some of the USA's first penitentiaries where prisoners sat in silence with bibles they could or could not read. And, in many cities in the NE USA, Catholic girls and young women were punished for having sex or being raped by being "spanked", kneeling with arms outstretched for prolonged periods and" sleeping" tied flat on their backs while pregnant in the cold and dark with respiration and circulation impaired. Evil in the name of God and good is still evil.
30
I have a friend who grew up in a similar cult, I believe in Indiana. She was a child when her parents sold their house and moved onto a farm the "church" owned. Her recollection was that it began very gradually, when the pastor of what was initially a normal church began issuing decrees about things members couldn't do, such as buy gasoline from self-service stations. (This was in the mid-1970s.) Her family remained in what evolved into a communal cult for more than ten years, until soon after her mother died of untreated appendicitis toward the end of a pregnancy, refusing treatment until she and the baby both died. At this point apparently her father came to his senses, but his children had grown up basically without education or medical care (my friend had cavities in the double digits from lack of dental care.) I only discovered all this about her when we and some other friends were discussing the first movies we could recall seeing, and she said she had seen her first movie at age 19, I think it was. The message I get from this is that charlatans start with small tyrannies, gaining control so gradually that people do not realize what they are surrendering until they are deeply "under the influence." My friend is a lovely person, and remarkably open about what she experienced.
72
This group epitomizes everything that is wrong with religion. Mr. Irwin clearly suffers from mental illness that was allowed to go untreated for years. His followers were insecure and frightened by the world around them and sought to retreat into some kind of holy hiding place. I don't feel sorry for any but the young man who was beaten to death and his injured brother. The rest are pathetic.
42
Yes, and criminals.
16
"Word of Life Church’s Path From Bible Group to Lethal Sect"
All religions are sect - some less lethal than others - when will people stand on their own feet.
All religions are sect - some less lethal than others - when will people stand on their own feet.
26
In God we trust.
The Lord works in mysterious ways.
No big deal.
The Lord works in mysterious ways.
No big deal.
3
God made man in His image. Unfortunately, that means that we often get Old Testament on each other.
9
I am curious about the lack of a photo of Ms. Irwin the pastor or her father.
26
I am confused about the interrelationships of these church members.
Tiffanie Irwin is the daughter of the founder, but also the half sister of the Leonard brothers, who were beaten.
Could the NYT provide a family tree of doe sort to clarify these relations?
Tiffanie Irwin is the daughter of the founder, but also the half sister of the Leonard brothers, who were beaten.
Could the NYT provide a family tree of doe sort to clarify these relations?
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"family tree of some sort"
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You have two women conflated. Ms. Irwin is the daughter of the founder and has not, as yet, been charged with a crime. Sarah Ferguson, who is facing criminal charges, is the victims' half-sister.
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thank you
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These types of communal situations/churches likely exist in dozens more localities upstate that are just like this one. This is a part of New York State that most are unfamiliar with. I used to pass this school building on my way back from civilization to the air force base I was stationed at, and it was a marker that you were a few miles south of Utica. The area has been decrepit for generations, as farming and industry have left Central New York.
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Arthur Miller's The Crucible will be on Broadway in 2016 but you can read the play today to understand how close we always are the vile murderous slanderous superstitions.
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"vile murderous slanderous superstitions."
You have just defined organized religion.
You have just defined organized religion.
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A tool you can use to evaluate the risks of religious organizations is to look for a set behaviors that dangerous cults engage in that safe religious groups do not. This was developed by pagan religious leader Isaac Bonewits in 1979 as a way of separating out the weird-but-harmless from the truly dangerous (e.g. People's Temple).
You can read it here:
https://nokhooja.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/cult-danger.pdf
It's vitally important that you rate the group based on behavior rather than belief: Dangerous groups can be at least nominally Christian (e.g. Branch Davidians), harmless groups can have fairly unusual beliefs (e.g. Church of All Worlds). That's why you look for signs like:
- Can the leadership be questioned?
- Are members allowed to make their own decisions about important matters in their lives?
- Is the group trying to separate you from anybody who's not in it that might be able to help you if you're in trouble (e.g. your family)?
You can read it here:
https://nokhooja.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/cult-danger.pdf
It's vitally important that you rate the group based on behavior rather than belief: Dangerous groups can be at least nominally Christian (e.g. Branch Davidians), harmless groups can have fairly unusual beliefs (e.g. Church of All Worlds). That's why you look for signs like:
- Can the leadership be questioned?
- Are members allowed to make their own decisions about important matters in their lives?
- Is the group trying to separate you from anybody who's not in it that might be able to help you if you're in trouble (e.g. your family)?
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Thank you, Dave K, for the guidelines, and thank you for starting a potentially horrible click bait comment section off on the high road. Shame on the Times for all these front page articles on this miserable group.
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Um, those examples you list could also be applied to leaders who:
Try to separate you from your family? 'Whoever loveth father and mother more than me, is not worthy of me'; or, to a man whose father had died, 'let the dead bury the dead'; or 'I have come to set brother against brother.'
Who advocate extreme practices, such as telling followers to mutilate themselves - cut off a hand or pluck out an eye - rather than sin?
Who give up a good paying trade, say as a carpenter or fisherman, to couch-surf and sponge on followers as itinerant preachers?
Who preach the imminent end of the world - 'truly, I tell you some who are standing here will not taste death until' the apocalypse comes?
Who declare themselves messiahs or possessed of exclusive insight or blessedness - 'I am the way and the life ... none come to the father except through me'?
Who tell you not to listen to their competitors: 'Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him"?
Who place creature comforts supposedly justified by their exalted status- e.g., having the divine tootsies soothed with expensive oil - rather than the works of charity supposedly the purpose of the sect - such as selling the ointment to give alms to the poor?
The line between 'legitimate religion' and 'cult' is thin, and generally defined by size, money, and longevity.
Try to separate you from your family? 'Whoever loveth father and mother more than me, is not worthy of me'; or, to a man whose father had died, 'let the dead bury the dead'; or 'I have come to set brother against brother.'
Who advocate extreme practices, such as telling followers to mutilate themselves - cut off a hand or pluck out an eye - rather than sin?
Who give up a good paying trade, say as a carpenter or fisherman, to couch-surf and sponge on followers as itinerant preachers?
Who preach the imminent end of the world - 'truly, I tell you some who are standing here will not taste death until' the apocalypse comes?
Who declare themselves messiahs or possessed of exclusive insight or blessedness - 'I am the way and the life ... none come to the father except through me'?
Who tell you not to listen to their competitors: 'Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him"?
Who place creature comforts supposedly justified by their exalted status- e.g., having the divine tootsies soothed with expensive oil - rather than the works of charity supposedly the purpose of the sect - such as selling the ointment to give alms to the poor?
The line between 'legitimate religion' and 'cult' is thin, and generally defined by size, money, and longevity.
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I question the concept of a "safe religion". Seems to me that letting others think for you is never truly "safe".
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