Joe Biden is a nice guy. He is a competent guy. But he is not as intellectually gifted as Hillary and he is not a forceful leader. I would feel comfortable with him as a caretaker if something happened to President Obama.
1
watching the debates from both parties just reinforce my belief - the next president must be from the democratic party even if it's hilary clinton.
1
If Sec Clinton is so formidable, then why does she lose to the Republican field in head to head match ups in the General Election? We have yet to see any polls showing otherwise/
Sec Clinton is overrated. She has no message, she has no solid policy ideas except the ones that change according to who she's talking to. She may have given a good debate performance, but that has yet to translate into any polls showing she can win in a General Election. And I also think Sanders won the debate, personally.
The goal for the Democrats should be to put up a candidate who can beat the Republicans in a General Election, not to put up someone just because she's a woman and spouse of Bill Clinton, who graduated from Yale Law School and was Sec of State.
I'm sick of the Democrats in this country "Fawning" over Clinton, because of her last name. She's overrated.
Biden/Warren 2016
Sec Clinton is overrated. She has no message, she has no solid policy ideas except the ones that change according to who she's talking to. She may have given a good debate performance, but that has yet to translate into any polls showing she can win in a General Election. And I also think Sanders won the debate, personally.
The goal for the Democrats should be to put up a candidate who can beat the Republicans in a General Election, not to put up someone just because she's a woman and spouse of Bill Clinton, who graduated from Yale Law School and was Sec of State.
I'm sick of the Democrats in this country "Fawning" over Clinton, because of her last name. She's overrated.
Biden/Warren 2016
1
First, none of her opponents really challenged her. Second, her fawning, CNN groupies avoided any substantive or 'blind-side' questions like they lobbed earlier to the GOP candidates.
Third, perhaps her most absurd position is, "The information sent in those Emails wasn't marked, 'classified.'' For god's sake; she was running the State Dept!. Everything coming out of there is (or should be) PRESUMED SECRET! Remember how upset any major government official or member of Congress gets when something exchanged in private is 'leaked?' Again; there was no need to stamp 'restricted, secret, or classified' on such high-level information.
Third, perhaps her most absurd position is, "The information sent in those Emails wasn't marked, 'classified.'' For god's sake; she was running the State Dept!. Everything coming out of there is (or should be) PRESUMED SECRET! Remember how upset any major government official or member of Congress gets when something exchanged in private is 'leaked?' Again; there was no need to stamp 'restricted, secret, or classified' on such high-level information.
Online polls are notoriously inaccurate - they are not an "objective measure" because they are unregulated & easily prone to multiple voting. Not a one person/one vote, for-real election at all. This is what click-bait is all about. Besides, praise for Hillary's terrific job at the debate has come from across the spectrum - even from commentators who have opposed her or raised persistent objections have grudgingly said they had to hand this debate to her. I view the online post-debate polls as a sort of virtual protest march - the turning out of huge numbers to "send a message." Multiple voting has become acceptable in a number of areas - voting daily & from all your emails for the most popular charity or arts venue, for example, & sometimes using volunteers to devote hours to daily voting with permission to use their members' emails. But in political elections this is called ballot stuffing & it's fraud. I just saw a guy on Facebook who admitted he voted for Bernie 12 times in one post-debate online poll. I was heartened that someone admitted it.
2
In post-debate polling, which is the most formal metric that exists to measure viewer response, it has been reported than Bernie Sanders won the debate.
He carried the CNN focus group, the Fusion focus group, and the Fox News focus group; in the latter, he even converted several Hillary supporters. He won the Slate online poll, CNN/Time online poll, 9News Colorado, The Street online poll, Fox5 poll, the conservative Drudge online poll and the liberal Daily Kos online poll.
It was reported that Sanders won all polls by at least an 18-point margin. But you wouldn’t know this from reading the establishment press. The New York Times, the New Yorker, CNN, Politico, Slate, New York Magazine, and Vox all unanimously say Hillary Clinton cleaned house. What gives?"
Additionally, Bernie Sanders won 68% in the MSNBC.com poll; 55% in the Daily Kos poll; 54% in the Time.com poll; and overwhelmingly won CNN’s own Facebook poll, not that you would know it from what the pundits were saying on CNN itself. CNN’s own focus group also said that Bernie Sanders won, as did Fusion’s focus group and Fox News’ focus group.
Why the discrepancy, NYT? Pundits and journalists are certainly less accurate, and involve far fewer participants, than polls.
He carried the CNN focus group, the Fusion focus group, and the Fox News focus group; in the latter, he even converted several Hillary supporters. He won the Slate online poll, CNN/Time online poll, 9News Colorado, The Street online poll, Fox5 poll, the conservative Drudge online poll and the liberal Daily Kos online poll.
It was reported that Sanders won all polls by at least an 18-point margin. But you wouldn’t know this from reading the establishment press. The New York Times, the New Yorker, CNN, Politico, Slate, New York Magazine, and Vox all unanimously say Hillary Clinton cleaned house. What gives?"
Additionally, Bernie Sanders won 68% in the MSNBC.com poll; 55% in the Daily Kos poll; 54% in the Time.com poll; and overwhelmingly won CNN’s own Facebook poll, not that you would know it from what the pundits were saying on CNN itself. CNN’s own focus group also said that Bernie Sanders won, as did Fusion’s focus group and Fox News’ focus group.
Why the discrepancy, NYT? Pundits and journalists are certainly less accurate, and involve far fewer participants, than polls.
3
The Veterans Administration is--in my humble subjective observation--an implicit refutation that America is fully competent, deserving of laudatory leadership "exceptionalism."
Our governmental system bureaucratically separates the V.A. from
the military, a convoluted, expedient, apparently traditional, artificial separation imho, but our reality.
I anticipate the cynical, rhetorically over-dosed G.O.P. convention politics next year to probably bash the Obama Veterans Administration's notorious failures.
Hmmm: What has this to do with the failure of President Obama to believe-in & pursue "American Exceptionalism?"
Indeed, why isn't our totally own V.A. considered excellent?
Our governmental system bureaucratically separates the V.A. from
the military, a convoluted, expedient, apparently traditional, artificial separation imho, but our reality.
I anticipate the cynical, rhetorically over-dosed G.O.P. convention politics next year to probably bash the Obama Veterans Administration's notorious failures.
Hmmm: What has this to do with the failure of President Obama to believe-in & pursue "American Exceptionalism?"
Indeed, why isn't our totally own V.A. considered excellent?
A note to NYT reporters: the NYT's coverage of the debate has been extremely biased and pro-Hillary. As the NYT has the power to influence voters, it is encumbent on the Times to cover such debates with neutrality.
Instead, journalists are swooning like teen-age girls at a Justin Bieber concert. It is Justin's job to perform, and be appealing, so those girls will buy his music. His lyrics do not have to carry truth, they just must entice and entertain.
Hillary's voice was loud and clear, like any good actor's should be. She smiled, tried to have a bit of a sense of humor, but her words were as empty as Justin Bieber's lyrics (sorry, Justin--singing about love and sex is probably more authentic than Hillary was at the debate).
She evaded stating one clear policy on any topic. She was a master of non-committal. She likes Glass-Steagall, that much was clear. She thinks Libya is better off now, with the death of Khadafi. Has she seen the new Libya? Number one in immigrant trafficking, victim of constant warring factions and General Haftar poised for a military takeover.
It is expected that Hillary would be good at evasion. She has been grilled ruthlessly about myriad illegal actions, only to emerge unscathed. While crafty and ambitious, she is not honest and direct. Political expedience left her plans for the U.S. undisclosed, and showed her acting skills.
Yet journalists applaud her "act", not her substance. NYT, think critically, and report neutrally.
Instead, journalists are swooning like teen-age girls at a Justin Bieber concert. It is Justin's job to perform, and be appealing, so those girls will buy his music. His lyrics do not have to carry truth, they just must entice and entertain.
Hillary's voice was loud and clear, like any good actor's should be. She smiled, tried to have a bit of a sense of humor, but her words were as empty as Justin Bieber's lyrics (sorry, Justin--singing about love and sex is probably more authentic than Hillary was at the debate).
She evaded stating one clear policy on any topic. She was a master of non-committal. She likes Glass-Steagall, that much was clear. She thinks Libya is better off now, with the death of Khadafi. Has she seen the new Libya? Number one in immigrant trafficking, victim of constant warring factions and General Haftar poised for a military takeover.
It is expected that Hillary would be good at evasion. She has been grilled ruthlessly about myriad illegal actions, only to emerge unscathed. While crafty and ambitious, she is not honest and direct. Political expedience left her plans for the U.S. undisclosed, and showed her acting skills.
Yet journalists applaud her "act", not her substance. NYT, think critically, and report neutrally.
2
She better be up for a fight, as EVERY focus group showed Bernie the winner by a totally lopsided number.
The media will do ANYTHING to protect Hillary, but they can' control the people.
The media will do ANYTHING to protect Hillary, but they can' control the people.
3
Sanders scored big fundraising and online victories, even though "pundits" declared Clinton the victor.As Gawker's Hamilton Nolan noted:
There were several large online polls, which are a fairly degraded form of data that can end up measuring enthusiasm of a candidate’s base more than actual total voter preference. But to the extent those online polls have any value, Bernie Sanders won 68% in the MSNBC.com poll; Bernie Sanders won 55% in the Daily Kos poll; Bernie Sanders won 54% in the Time.com poll; and Bernie Sanders overwhelmingly won CNN’s own Facebook poll, not that you would know it from what the pundits were saying on CNN itself. CNN’s own focus group also said that Bernie Sanders won, and Fusion’s focus group said that Bernie Sanders won, and Fox News’ focus group said that Bernie Sanders won.
America deserves Sanders as POTUS . If he misses the cut it not only americans who would be the losers but the whole world too.
Clinton is OF the esatblishment, supported and funded BY the established Corporations , with the xpress understanding that she would work FOR the corporations ' but Sanders is one OF the people , funded BYthe people and assured that he would work FOR the people.
There were several large online polls, which are a fairly degraded form of data that can end up measuring enthusiasm of a candidate’s base more than actual total voter preference. But to the extent those online polls have any value, Bernie Sanders won 68% in the MSNBC.com poll; Bernie Sanders won 55% in the Daily Kos poll; Bernie Sanders won 54% in the Time.com poll; and Bernie Sanders overwhelmingly won CNN’s own Facebook poll, not that you would know it from what the pundits were saying on CNN itself. CNN’s own focus group also said that Bernie Sanders won, and Fusion’s focus group said that Bernie Sanders won, and Fox News’ focus group said that Bernie Sanders won.
America deserves Sanders as POTUS . If he misses the cut it not only americans who would be the losers but the whole world too.
Clinton is OF the esatblishment, supported and funded BY the established Corporations , with the xpress understanding that she would work FOR the corporations ' but Sanders is one OF the people , funded BYthe people and assured that he would work FOR the people.
3
Secretary Clinton ,perhaps she deserves a modicum of kudos for her "performance" at this sorry example of a debate. Maybe I am missing something ( I do have a thick skull), but it seemed like the CNN team orchestrated ,or rather, manipulated debate to shine the political light on her ladyship and 'ol Bernie (i.e. Skewness). So, in essence It could have provided more discourse for productive ideas for a better more efficient government. Jim Webb, though demure, is a fountainhead of foreign policy issues-- much could have been articulated and provide some important synergy to this "Sleepy Hollow" farce.
1
Anyone who understands political dynamics should have known that the minute Hillary Clinton appeared in public on a debate stage, most of the babble about her e-mails and dipping poll numbers would lift like morning fog. Shaking my head at the obtuseness of the press and its pundits. And I'm a Sanders supporter.
2
I'm deeply disappointed in the NYT. There seems to be a clear editorial bias to suppress Bernie Sander's success at the debate and in his growing national popularity. Since the debate on Tuesday, the only article appearing in the NYT with Bernie in the title was a slanted opinion piece entitled: "Why Bernie Can’t Win."
Here are the facts: Sanders won the CNN focus group, the Fusion focus group, and the Fox News focus group (where he converted several Hillary supporters). He won the Slate online poll, CNN/Time online poll, 9News Colorado, The Street online poll, Fox5 poll, the conservative Drudge online poll and the liberal Daily Kos online poll. I have not seen a valid poll he didn’t win (by at least an 18-point margin). You wouldn’t know this from reading the establishment press. The New York Times, the New Yorker, CNN, Politico, Slate, New York Magazine, and Vox all unanimously say Hillary Clinton cleaned house.
So, I'd like to be wrong, but it appears that the NYT is promoting a broad corporate agenda (one near and dear to the Clintons, but not Sanders) under the guise of news. Shame on you! Get the story right and report the real news--otherwise the NYT becomes not just irrelevant, it's helping to poison what's left of the American democracy.
Here are the facts: Sanders won the CNN focus group, the Fusion focus group, and the Fox News focus group (where he converted several Hillary supporters). He won the Slate online poll, CNN/Time online poll, 9News Colorado, The Street online poll, Fox5 poll, the conservative Drudge online poll and the liberal Daily Kos online poll. I have not seen a valid poll he didn’t win (by at least an 18-point margin). You wouldn’t know this from reading the establishment press. The New York Times, the New Yorker, CNN, Politico, Slate, New York Magazine, and Vox all unanimously say Hillary Clinton cleaned house.
So, I'd like to be wrong, but it appears that the NYT is promoting a broad corporate agenda (one near and dear to the Clintons, but not Sanders) under the guise of news. Shame on you! Get the story right and report the real news--otherwise the NYT becomes not just irrelevant, it's helping to poison what's left of the American democracy.
5
My impression, gained in the first 3 minutes of the debate, was that Clinton envied Sander's wide appeal and wanted a piece of it. She tried to out-Bernie Bernie.
4
It was surprising to me how or rather why the moderator left out deliberately or otherwise,the role
of high frequency internet trading (HFT) thats the main contributory reason why money got
accumulated so fast within a matter of just 15 years in the hands of so few .
why that cardinal fact was not exposed or was hidden from public attention ,
by the interviewer ?
In 2009, high-frequency traders moved about 3.25 billion shares a day.
"the system could predict stock prices 30 to 60 seconds into the future and automatically jump in
and out of trades. They named it BORG, which stood for Brokered Order Routing Gateway. It was
also a reference to the evil alien race in Star Trek that absorbed entire species into its
cybernetic hive mind."
what has the presidential candidates to say about banning HFT ? Hope the host would include it in the next debate .
of high frequency internet trading (HFT) thats the main contributory reason why money got
accumulated so fast within a matter of just 15 years in the hands of so few .
why that cardinal fact was not exposed or was hidden from public attention ,
by the interviewer ?
In 2009, high-frequency traders moved about 3.25 billion shares a day.
"the system could predict stock prices 30 to 60 seconds into the future and automatically jump in
and out of trades. They named it BORG, which stood for Brokered Order Routing Gateway. It was
also a reference to the evil alien race in Star Trek that absorbed entire species into its
cybernetic hive mind."
what has the presidential candidates to say about banning HFT ? Hope the host would include it in the next debate .
Does anyone really believe that Ms. Clinton would have looked anything other than well-prepared for the debate? She has been running for the office for the past 10 years. Does anyone actually believe that her Secretary of State appointment was anything other than a bone thrown to her by President Obama to keep her in the limelight until she could run again? This article, like far too many in the general media, ignores Mr. Sanders by spending more time reporting on Mr. Biden, a non-candidate. What on Earth does looking presidential have to do with ability to lead, guide, and govern? Mr. Sanders' ideas are resonating with millions of us precisely because the calculated moves by Mrs. Clinton and the political classes have become nauseating. As the media continue to underestimate the "serious-ness of Mr. Sanders (too old, too Jewish, too left-ist, too Brooklyney, too fill-in-the-blank), do not underestimate the resonance that he has created in the millions of us who find most of the rest of the pack more of the status quo-ful same who are tired of Bushes, Clintons, and the rich PACs that support them.
3
Bernie did very well but Hillary won. She was better prepared. She was upbeat, tough and was having a great time. He was good too but she was just better.
Though, I don’t think it matters how well he did, he cannot win the nomination without getting more of the minority vote. And so far I do not see any increase in his appeal with Blacks, Hispanics or Asians.
Sure he can win a white state like New Hampshire but what happens in Florida, South Carolina where it's more diverse.
He has a good message on some things. But I like capitalism as a small business owner. I do not want the USA turned into Sweden, Norway or Denmark. Very white countries. See the problem? A white male senator from one of the whitest states celebrating very white countries. Huge disconnect with the minority base of the party.
During the debate and his speeches Bernie Sanders's passion sometimes comes across as arrogance and an unwillingness to listen or comprise.
I just don’t think we need another know-it-all white man in the White House.
I’m sticking with Hillary!
Though, I don’t think it matters how well he did, he cannot win the nomination without getting more of the minority vote. And so far I do not see any increase in his appeal with Blacks, Hispanics or Asians.
Sure he can win a white state like New Hampshire but what happens in Florida, South Carolina where it's more diverse.
He has a good message on some things. But I like capitalism as a small business owner. I do not want the USA turned into Sweden, Norway or Denmark. Very white countries. See the problem? A white male senator from one of the whitest states celebrating very white countries. Huge disconnect with the minority base of the party.
During the debate and his speeches Bernie Sanders's passion sometimes comes across as arrogance and an unwillingness to listen or comprise.
I just don’t think we need another know-it-all white man in the White House.
I’m sticking with Hillary!
3
I urge everyone to read the piece by Ta-Nehisi Coates in this month's Atlantic Monthly called The Black Family in the Age of Mass Incarceration. Few people realize that H.R. 3355 was the single most damaging cause of the mass incarceration of black men in American history. It was authored by Senator Joe Biden back in ’94, and signed into law by none other than Bill Clinton, who now says he regrets signing it. Yeah, like HRC regrets voting for the Iraq War! Hmmmmm. Had Bernie been around at that time, do you think he would have supported it? Doubt it. But will the black voter come out for HRC or will they feel the Bern? The Clintons have done a masterful job of persuading the black voter that they are on their side ... and yet it was this legislation signed into law by Bill Clinton that is the reason so many black families today have a hole in them. Indeed, if you add the fact that Bill Clinton also got rid of Glass-Steagall—whose recall was in no small way responsible for the Great Recession which disproportionally affected black families—rather than being the "first black President", as he's so often described, I would argue that Clinton did more to damage black families over the last 20 years than any President in the history of our country. Given these harsh historical facts, I'm amazed HRC assumes she’ll get the black vote but I won’t be surprised if she does. Like her husband, her slickness and opportunistic political instincts—on parade in Las Vegas—are breathtaking.
2
Bernie to me won the debate and Hillary, unfortunately, still is beholden to Wall Street and the " too big to fail bankers " . Bernie is honest as the day as long and he speaks truth to power. He would make a great leader, he loves his country and its citizens .... It shows !
4
The question is not whether Mrs. Clinton is up for a fight. The question isn't even how well does she do under the lights. Clearly she is a bright and capable women. The question is can she win? Issues critical to our nation- like voters rights, the need for and scope of government, the use of public money and governmental powers- are in play and the way those issues resolve will frame the quality of our lives for decades to come.
However much the campaign would like to frame- or have the NYT frame- this candidate as substantive and sassy, competent and compassionate, practical and pals-y the question remains: can. she. win.? Although Sanders clearly has his proponents, he can't take this race and the stakes are too high to underestimate the conservative/libertarian push-me-pull-me. Karl Roves are out there right now scrutinizing every move and plotting counter moves. After witnessing the "count" in Florida, one thing I learned is that those guys are willing to commit everything to winning. They'll set aside all reason and decency and should never be underestimated.
I'm confident a Democrat in the White House is, not just desirable, but desperately needed at this time in history. Pray God, Joe Biden runs, he has a role to play in this election and should not be discouraged from entering the race. I think he can take the office and will serve with distinction and dignity.
However much the campaign would like to frame- or have the NYT frame- this candidate as substantive and sassy, competent and compassionate, practical and pals-y the question remains: can. she. win.? Although Sanders clearly has his proponents, he can't take this race and the stakes are too high to underestimate the conservative/libertarian push-me-pull-me. Karl Roves are out there right now scrutinizing every move and plotting counter moves. After witnessing the "count" in Florida, one thing I learned is that those guys are willing to commit everything to winning. They'll set aside all reason and decency and should never be underestimated.
I'm confident a Democrat in the White House is, not just desirable, but desperately needed at this time in history. Pray God, Joe Biden runs, he has a role to play in this election and should not be discouraged from entering the race. I think he can take the office and will serve with distinction and dignity.
7
Try to remember that Joe Biden is the same man who tried to rub Merkel's shoulders a few months back and in so doing, embarrassed himself, his president and his country. Try to remember that Joe Biden bottomed out eight years ago in the primaries and had to drop out. Try to remember that his fabled 'authenticity' caused him to leave is first presidential run in shame when he was caught plagarizing speeches by a british politician nearly word for word, and then it turned out he'd been stealing other people's words every since law school!
His posturing now that perhaps he will run and perhaps not is offensive to some of us insofar as he can't support the finest and strongest female candidate we've ever had?
His posturing now that perhaps he will run and perhaps not is offensive to some of us insofar as he can't support the finest and strongest female candidate we've ever had?
The New York Times has a serious credibility blind spot if they can't see that their skewed and outdated approach to coverage of the Democratic primaries is irresponsible and ethically unsound.
13
Clinton came ac ross as a smooth number. How nice that she brushed off the Iraq War -- " the most tragic blunder in American history," according to other debaters, with a quick dismissal. No regrets. No apologies. SMOOTH -- if what you like is smooth!
4
Biden is a politician and very human, not mechanical. And lots of people genuinely like him. Finally, he his resume is solid, not contrived.
On her choice of a running mate, the obvious choice of those who were on the stage at the debate is O'Malley. A natural. We could think of people from swing states. Tim Kaine of VA could be one, but no one else leaps to mind. Bernie is great, but not for VP.
1
Hillary Clinton was head-and-shoulders above the other Democratic presidential candidates.
She was steady and calm during her debate performance. She parried with relative ease, refusing to allow Anderson Cooper and her rivals to get under her skin. She scored points on most of the key Democratic issues — paid sick and family leave, equal pay, gun control, Planned Parenthood — and she deflected criticism of her changing views on trade and energy, and her response to the Benghazi attack. She turned Cooper’s question about her e-mail into the highlight of the night.
Hillary's advantages in experience and composure were clear. She looked presidential.
None of the other Democrats did. Joe Biden might.
And certainly none of the Republican/Tea Party candidate do - she will wipe the floor with them.
She was steady and calm during her debate performance. She parried with relative ease, refusing to allow Anderson Cooper and her rivals to get under her skin. She scored points on most of the key Democratic issues — paid sick and family leave, equal pay, gun control, Planned Parenthood — and she deflected criticism of her changing views on trade and energy, and her response to the Benghazi attack. She turned Cooper’s question about her e-mail into the highlight of the night.
Hillary's advantages in experience and composure were clear. She looked presidential.
None of the other Democrats did. Joe Biden might.
And certainly none of the Republican/Tea Party candidate do - she will wipe the floor with them.
3
She acknowledged she once called it the "gold standard," but added: "It was just finally negotiated last week, and in looking at it, it didn't meet my standards -- my standards for more new, good jobs for Americans."
She suggested the agreement would not help raise middle-class American wages. Yet while the U.S. and 11 Pacific Rim nations finalized the accord earlier this month, the final text has not been released, a fact confirmed by the White House on Wednesday. "I noticed that, too," White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest said when asked about Clinton opposing a deal whose text has not been posted.
She suggested the agreement would not help raise middle-class American wages. Yet while the U.S. and 11 Pacific Rim nations finalized the accord earlier this month, the final text has not been released, a fact confirmed by the White House on Wednesday. "I noticed that, too," White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest said when asked about Clinton opposing a deal whose text has not been posted.
3
Climate change is the issue with the most at stake. Not just for Americans, but all the world's residents. And not just our species, but all forms of life.
Would you bet the planet that a self-described socialist who comes off as Howard Beale can win over average voters in the general election? If so, I hope you are willing to pour your money and time into the campaign, cause it's going to need it. Personally, I'm for whoever the Democrat is that can win. I'd prefer Bernie or Warren, but I'll take Clinton if she has the best chances. I'm not going to be picky. There's just too much at stake, and no time left to risk.
Would you bet the planet that a self-described socialist who comes off as Howard Beale can win over average voters in the general election? If so, I hope you are willing to pour your money and time into the campaign, cause it's going to need it. Personally, I'm for whoever the Democrat is that can win. I'd prefer Bernie or Warren, but I'll take Clinton if she has the best chances. I'm not going to be picky. There's just too much at stake, and no time left to risk.
14
If you really prefer Bernie but state that he is incapable of winning you are ensuring that he cannot. Nothing is more certain to turn away movement toward a desired goal than to insist it is impossible.
1
Clinton was in a debate with 2nd tier candidates, if Pres. Obama was on the dais her smile would have disappeared. I voted for the first time in 1968 for President, Clinton does not match up against any of the Democrat's that ran, Humphrey, McCarthy, McGovern and Robert Kennedy. Nixon won, say no more.
I'm a Republican who, if Bernie Sanders were to survive miraculously the primary, would gleefully vote for him. Hillary "won" the debate because she possesses incredible political tact, clear and concise public speaking capacity, and intellectual wit.
Whilst those are all attributes any politician should seek to acquire (just think back many years ago to your POL 101 course), I want--and we need--a politician with more than mere wit and political finesse: We need a politician with clear ideas, not clear rhetoric; with intelligence, not just intellectual wit; and with a willingness to say at times what may be unpopular but might just be correct or necessary. Bernie Sanders is that guy--and even as a Republican, I would any day vote for him before I voted for Clinton or the current GOP sewer of trash.
Whilst those are all attributes any politician should seek to acquire (just think back many years ago to your POL 101 course), I want--and we need--a politician with more than mere wit and political finesse: We need a politician with clear ideas, not clear rhetoric; with intelligence, not just intellectual wit; and with a willingness to say at times what may be unpopular but might just be correct or necessary. Bernie Sanders is that guy--and even as a Republican, I would any day vote for him before I voted for Clinton or the current GOP sewer of trash.
7
Much as one might like and admire Bernie Sanders, the man, he's clearly more passionate proselytizer and champion of the marginalized than the cool-calm-'n'-collected Statesperson that this particular job requires. I'd love to see his firebrand passion in a cabinet post, but not, I'm sorry to say, on the world stage, where, for many of us here and around the world, Hillary would look like she belongs -- commanding, smart, and perfectly at ease with herself.
3
She would LOOK like she belonged. What does that mean and how will it help Americans
2
Angela, it's odd to me that you'd sneer at the need to appear 'Presidential' -- it's usually rather high up on the list of requirements for the job -- just ask Dukakis! As for 'helping Americans', I think my comment makes it clear that I believe both she and Sanders would do that, but that she has a rather better shot at being able to get her policies enacted. But I obviously made my case very poorly!
Sorry, Hillary, you missed your chance 7 years ago. Too bad, just look who we got.
1
I am starting to think the since Bernie Sanders is basically flying under the radar of the American media and doing remarkably well, actually a good deal better than that, maybe it is just as well. The response from his people who met in groups all over the country for the debate actually had me swell up with tears. The grass is not growing under Bernie's feet. It is growing all over the good ol' USA, roots and all. No doubt Hillary and her people are feeling proud and smug. But it is a love fest in Bernie's corner and things are really firing up. Feel the Burn!!
6
Historically, socialism generates tears and nearly always under the radar.
Nobody in Europe is crying about single payer health care. Nobody wants US-style for-profit health care. Nobody is complaining about family leave. Nobody is complaining about subsidized higher education either. Small businesses also seem to do a lot better in Europe than they do in the US. Why do you think that is?
1
A note to NYT reporters: the NYT's coverage of the debate has been extremely biased and pro-Hillary. As the NYT has the power to influence voters, it is encumbent on the Times to cover such debates with neutrality.
Instead, journalists are swooning like teen-age girls at a Justin Bieber concert. It is Justin's job to perform, and be appealing, so those girls will buy his music. His lyrics do not have to carry truth, they just must entice and entertain.
Hillary's voice was loud and clear, like any good actor's should be. She smiled, tried to have a bit of a sense of humor, but her words were as empty as Justin Bieber's lyrics (sorry, Justin--singing about love and sex is probably more authentic than Hillary was at the debate).
She evaded stating one clear policy on any topic. She was a master of non-committal. She likes Glass-Steagall, that much was clear. She thinks Libya is better off now, with the death of Khadafi. Has she seen the new Libya? Number one in immigrant trafficking, victim of constant warring factions and General Haftar poised for a military takeover.
It is expected that Hillary would be good at evasion. She has been grilled ruthlessly about myriad illegal actions, only to emerge unscathed. While crafty and ambitious, she is not honest and direct. Political expedience left her plans for the U.S. undisclosed, and showed her acting skills.
Yet journalists applaud her "act", not her substance. NYT, think critically, and report neutrally.
Instead, journalists are swooning like teen-age girls at a Justin Bieber concert. It is Justin's job to perform, and be appealing, so those girls will buy his music. His lyrics do not have to carry truth, they just must entice and entertain.
Hillary's voice was loud and clear, like any good actor's should be. She smiled, tried to have a bit of a sense of humor, but her words were as empty as Justin Bieber's lyrics (sorry, Justin--singing about love and sex is probably more authentic than Hillary was at the debate).
She evaded stating one clear policy on any topic. She was a master of non-committal. She likes Glass-Steagall, that much was clear. She thinks Libya is better off now, with the death of Khadafi. Has she seen the new Libya? Number one in immigrant trafficking, victim of constant warring factions and General Haftar poised for a military takeover.
It is expected that Hillary would be good at evasion. She has been grilled ruthlessly about myriad illegal actions, only to emerge unscathed. While crafty and ambitious, she is not honest and direct. Political expedience left her plans for the U.S. undisclosed, and showed her acting skills.
Yet journalists applaud her "act", not her substance. NYT, think critically, and report neutrally.
5
Brilliantly put!
Hillary's very successful debate will only go to further infuriate her long in the tooth foes further. It is in Hillary's enemies exasperation I find true solace. Their hated reaffirms my allegiance to her.
Haters of Hillary and President Obama and apparently all members of the Democratic Party, which they refuse to acknowledge, instead derisively referring to as the "Democrat" Party, which it is not. Their name-calling only amuses me more. Their attacks follow no rhyme or reason, their diatribes just reek of unfocused anger and deep-seeded frustration with a changing America, a more diverse and imbued with a different hue than the America of the past, a place it is impossible to return. There is no reverse gear in the ship of state, only forward and the future, and Haters of Obama and Hillary can't grasp that fact. They just don't get it, and it appears they never will.
DD
Manhattan
Haters of Hillary and President Obama and apparently all members of the Democratic Party, which they refuse to acknowledge, instead derisively referring to as the "Democrat" Party, which it is not. Their name-calling only amuses me more. Their attacks follow no rhyme or reason, their diatribes just reek of unfocused anger and deep-seeded frustration with a changing America, a more diverse and imbued with a different hue than the America of the past, a place it is impossible to return. There is no reverse gear in the ship of state, only forward and the future, and Haters of Obama and Hillary can't grasp that fact. They just don't get it, and it appears they never will.
DD
Manhattan
I am confused that all the media immediately declared Hillary Clinton the winner of this debate. To me, it seemed obvious that Bernie Sanders won the night with honesty and new ideas that made sense for a struggling America.
I felt Hillary sounded like the same old Hillary, bellowing out statements that offered nothing new or authentic. Her statement that she would solve the jobs crisis by creating jobs in renewable energy is an exact copy of Obama's previous debate promises from his prior candidacy, which sounds good, but isn't much of a solution for an entire nation needing work.
I was not alone in feeling Sanders won the debate. Immediately following the debate, all the focus groups and others declared Sanders their favorite by far.
The CNN commentators seemed to already have their opinions formed and tried to discount Bernie Sanders while raving about Hillary Clinton, they seemed to present a knee jerk reaction after the debates. I think they are scared off by the term " democratic socialist". The American people need to understand that programs which help Americans are called " socialism" in a good way, not in the old " Communist regime" way. The Post Office is an example of socialism, yet we are not oppressed by it. It is just a word and not something to fear or mistrust. We need healthcare, not "affordable act" healthcare, and Bernie is right that we are lagging behind other nations in providing basic services to Americans. Bernie Sanders is our best choice !
I felt Hillary sounded like the same old Hillary, bellowing out statements that offered nothing new or authentic. Her statement that she would solve the jobs crisis by creating jobs in renewable energy is an exact copy of Obama's previous debate promises from his prior candidacy, which sounds good, but isn't much of a solution for an entire nation needing work.
I was not alone in feeling Sanders won the debate. Immediately following the debate, all the focus groups and others declared Sanders their favorite by far.
The CNN commentators seemed to already have their opinions formed and tried to discount Bernie Sanders while raving about Hillary Clinton, they seemed to present a knee jerk reaction after the debates. I think they are scared off by the term " democratic socialist". The American people need to understand that programs which help Americans are called " socialism" in a good way, not in the old " Communist regime" way. The Post Office is an example of socialism, yet we are not oppressed by it. It is just a word and not something to fear or mistrust. We need healthcare, not "affordable act" healthcare, and Bernie is right that we are lagging behind other nations in providing basic services to Americans. Bernie Sanders is our best choice !
6
There is only one huge reason that Biden would want to enter the race. Unless the NYT knows the outcome of the Criminal investigation by the FBI regarding her emails, her personal server, her attempt to obstruct an investigation by not providing her emails, her attempt to destroy evidence, she may have some very serious charges she is facing. Despite what Bernie Sanders stated at the debate regarding her emails, and your touting of this statement as your stamp of approval of Hillary, I would hope that an FBI investigation would take precedence. Snapshot taken.
Conspicuously absent in the debate were any questions on meaningful matters such as the staggering national debt that is poised to bankrupt this country or the human brutality carried out by planned parenthood. It's easy to look good when the moderator sticks to the softball script. Again, another useless carnival show that provides little substance to voters.
Are you kidding? Sanders has made the point quite clearly that Congress is controlled by Wall Street. The 1% have prospered while the rest of us have suffered. Go to his website for details.
1
My sense is that she debated well as she was among "friends" and it was a collegial environment.
I think with someone like Ms. Fiorina in particular, she would have a formidable and un-friendly opponent. It would be different and I don't know that I sense in her the willingness to "hit back hard". That's what it will take.
I think with someone like Ms. Fiorina in particular, she would have a formidable and un-friendly opponent. It would be different and I don't know that I sense in her the willingness to "hit back hard". That's what it will take.
Hillary Clinton's Republican opponent in a General Election debate, if she gets that far, will be much, much tougher on her than the Democrats were Tuesday night: Benghazi, Emails, Iraq War vote, a "Clinton Dynasty', and more.
Bernie won the debate hands down. The NYT did not mention him until paragraph 17 and then it was full of pro-Clinton bias. Sad to see so clearly how my favorite paper is in the banksters' hip pocket.
8
'Mr.' Clinton - para 8
Too early for any real analysis. She still has too much baggage to carry only when primaries begin to happen will anyone have an idea who us on top.
As far as her world experience it is based on past failures not actual wins, look at her from the perspective of how much our belligerent past since 1950 has caught up to us.
As far as gun control Bernie did vote against the bill and his reasoning was right. Here is what he said with his vote for the bill as it was written.
"If somebody has a gun and it falls into the hands of a murderer and the murderer kills somebody with a gun, do you hold the gun manufacturer responsible? Not any more than you would hold a hammer company responsible if somebody beats somebody over the head with a hammer."
Holding manufacturers responsible today would be more practical because of the advancement of technology that could limit the use to the owner of the gun only.
So lets get real before putting one candidate over another in the Democratic Party.
As far as her world experience it is based on past failures not actual wins, look at her from the perspective of how much our belligerent past since 1950 has caught up to us.
As far as gun control Bernie did vote against the bill and his reasoning was right. Here is what he said with his vote for the bill as it was written.
"If somebody has a gun and it falls into the hands of a murderer and the murderer kills somebody with a gun, do you hold the gun manufacturer responsible? Not any more than you would hold a hammer company responsible if somebody beats somebody over the head with a hammer."
Holding manufacturers responsible today would be more practical because of the advancement of technology that could limit the use to the owner of the gun only.
So lets get real before putting one candidate over another in the Democratic Party.
3
I note your headline "In Debate Hillary Sent a Messge to Doubters." Along with the similar headlines for Charles Blow's and Gail Collins' columns today for example), it is almost embarrassing. Is the NYT in collusion with Wasserman-Schultz, the moneyed interests, and other Clintonistas? Still no mention of Sanders! I'll give you credit for consistency! I can write your ultimate editorial for you right now, in a predictably haughty tone, a month or so before election day:
IT'S HILLARY!
This paper has been observing the elctioneering efforts of both Republicans and Democrats for some time. Like many others, we have been troubled by Mrs. Clinton's shifting of identity, her support of the Iraq invasion, and her coziness with Wall Street. However, when all is said and done, this paper endorses Mrs. Clinto as having the mind and political force to guide this country through these difficult times. Mr. Sanders has been a forceful and inspirational presence to legions of young voters; however, we are concerned about his electability and ability to offer a nuanced presidency. He reminds us in his naivety of Howard Dean some twenty years ago -- who also spoke out against the financiers who run our country and against their ginning up of the Iraq invasion. Back then, we addressed his passionate believers; we said, "Come back, little Deaniacs." Come back to the establishment. We have similar advice to give today to Bernie's supporters.
IT'S HILLARY!
This paper has been observing the elctioneering efforts of both Republicans and Democrats for some time. Like many others, we have been troubled by Mrs. Clinton's shifting of identity, her support of the Iraq invasion, and her coziness with Wall Street. However, when all is said and done, this paper endorses Mrs. Clinto as having the mind and political force to guide this country through these difficult times. Mr. Sanders has been a forceful and inspirational presence to legions of young voters; however, we are concerned about his electability and ability to offer a nuanced presidency. He reminds us in his naivety of Howard Dean some twenty years ago -- who also spoke out against the financiers who run our country and against their ginning up of the Iraq invasion. Back then, we addressed his passionate believers; we said, "Come back, little Deaniacs." Come back to the establishment. We have similar advice to give today to Bernie's supporters.
5
Let's talk about Hillary's propensity for domestic violence. If an accused man has to lose his job, and is too dangerous to have access to weapons, then how can she be allowed into high office and have access to the nuclear button?
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/hillary-clinton-presidency-we-need-talk-about-h...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8Ky1_pyn6Q&feature=kp
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/hillary-clinton-presidency-we-need-talk-about-h...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8Ky1_pyn6Q&feature=kp
3
Quick, it's time to crown Hillary. Let the coronation begin. Forget about the primaries. Forget about debates. Forget about voting. HILLARY NOW!!!!!
4
No question! Mrs Hillary Clinton showed as to why she wants to be the nominee for the Democratic Party on Tuesday night Democratic Debate. Today there is a clear agreement among the international political observers that she won by far the first Democrat debate.
From my part, there was something that she said that caught my attention in her short introduction when she said:' "At the center of my campaign is how we are going to raise wages. Yes, of course, raise the minimum wage, but we have to do much more, including FINDING WAYS SO THAT COMPANIES SHARE PROFITS WITH THE WORKERS WHO HELP TO MAKE THEM."
As far as I know, no other potential candidate to the White House has said this. Except the late and former Peruvian President, General Juan Velasco, Alvarado (1968-1975), who instituted a policy of "Sharing Profits" for companies with 50 workers or more.
The result of such a policy is that it brings peace between workers and management, if properly applied.
From my part, there was something that she said that caught my attention in her short introduction when she said:' "At the center of my campaign is how we are going to raise wages. Yes, of course, raise the minimum wage, but we have to do much more, including FINDING WAYS SO THAT COMPANIES SHARE PROFITS WITH THE WORKERS WHO HELP TO MAKE THEM."
As far as I know, no other potential candidate to the White House has said this. Except the late and former Peruvian President, General Juan Velasco, Alvarado (1968-1975), who instituted a policy of "Sharing Profits" for companies with 50 workers or more.
The result of such a policy is that it brings peace between workers and management, if properly applied.
3
Like it or not
There are number of negatives in the UK.
(1) The caste system - and there is one.
When I lived there 30 years ago, I observed that people never thought about rising above their station.
This reverence for a Monarch is not because of stability, but because of the caste system.
(2) Your welfare is over the top. In Australia, too many English people are shocked when they are charged a lot more for health services.
Many countries look after their 'down and out' people. But they do not over the top in doing so]
(3)Any advances made in the UK have not been commercialized.
\This is just incredible.
And no-one has ever analysed this
Is it because migration is anathema - and the best migrants like to go elsewhere? ( America?)
... for the people who put up silly arguments about overpopulation, and such like - we have them over here too in Australia.
That argument is valid, but it also validates the point made in ' Logan's run' ( A TV series in the 70's).
.
AND we have the same argument in Australia ( this time it says that we do not have enough water - ignoring the fact that there is a Hugh amount of water in the north.)
There are number of negatives in the UK.
(1) The caste system - and there is one.
When I lived there 30 years ago, I observed that people never thought about rising above their station.
This reverence for a Monarch is not because of stability, but because of the caste system.
(2) Your welfare is over the top. In Australia, too many English people are shocked when they are charged a lot more for health services.
Many countries look after their 'down and out' people. But they do not over the top in doing so]
(3)Any advances made in the UK have not been commercialized.
\This is just incredible.
And no-one has ever analysed this
Is it because migration is anathema - and the best migrants like to go elsewhere? ( America?)
... for the people who put up silly arguments about overpopulation, and such like - we have them over here too in Australia.
That argument is valid, but it also validates the point made in ' Logan's run' ( A TV series in the 70's).
.
AND we have the same argument in Australia ( this time it says that we do not have enough water - ignoring the fact that there is a Hugh amount of water in the north.)
I love what Bernie has to say and what he believes in and stands for.
I also don't feel hillary is as strong against the banks 'to big to fail' as Bernie is and what American needs to help create reform.
However, I don't think Bernie can get the rest of this country on board with his progressive ideas because Americans across this nation, with the exception of the few well educated and informed, are low information voters and fearful.
Hillary on the other hand, while she may not be as progressive, is showing Americans she is more moderate and can ride the waves the GOP creates.
Remember, the next president is going to have to deal with a VERY divided congress. Worse than it's ever been. Hillary has the conjones to stand up to them.
I also don't feel hillary is as strong against the banks 'to big to fail' as Bernie is and what American needs to help create reform.
However, I don't think Bernie can get the rest of this country on board with his progressive ideas because Americans across this nation, with the exception of the few well educated and informed, are low information voters and fearful.
Hillary on the other hand, while she may not be as progressive, is showing Americans she is more moderate and can ride the waves the GOP creates.
Remember, the next president is going to have to deal with a VERY divided congress. Worse than it's ever been. Hillary has the conjones to stand up to them.
2
I know you probably mean well but thankfully you are incorrect people of all race creed color and economic standing are taking notice and are very pleased with what they see honesty wins with the American people
"With her crisp answers to nearly every question . . ." ?? We were clearly not watching the same show. She forcefully answered the questions she liked -- using more time than the rules allotted, and talking over any attempt to rein her in -- slid off on a tangential issue for those that didn't address her agenda, and explicitly avoided answering those she wished had not been asked -- even after Cooper asked them a second time.
Neither of the moderators did their jobs. They let HRC make campaign speech after campaign speech, avoiding answering the question when it didn't suit her message.
Neither of the moderators did their jobs. They let HRC make campaign speech after campaign speech, avoiding answering the question when it didn't suit her message.
5
"She forcefully answered the questions she liked..... slid off on a tangential issue for those that didn't address her agenda, and explicitly avoided answering those she wished had not been asked...."
That's 'Debating 101', alas.
That's 'Debating 101', alas.
Hillary was up against an old socialist firebrand and a few relatively unknowns. And they were forgiving of Hillary. Does anyone believe that Sanders suggestion that "the American people" are "damn tired" of her Email fiasco came from his heart in a moment of support for Hillary? Don't believe it. It obviously was a staged response so Sanders can get brownie points. Obama hired her as Secretary of State not because he trusted her ability but so that she'd keep out of his hair. And then she goes and blows the job with the Benghazi fiasco/. And the moderator threw out soft questions. Biden would have torn her to shreds because she is honest and she is not.
“SANDERS WON THE DEBATE”
This is not the time to let the media tell us who won the debate. They were poised to say Clinton won even before the debate began.
Bernie had the very difficult task of showing what he had to offer was better than what Clinton was offering without doing in the Democratic Party in the general election and making for the disaster of having a Republican President. So he did what he could do which is repeatedly point out that Wall Street governs Washington not the reverse, and that he was the only candidate of both parties who had not been purchased by the so-called “donor class.” In perhaps, the only way he could, Bernie was saying do not believe what Clinton says.
The clever soundbites by Clinton are no more than that. Bernie told the truth, including about the e-mail nonsense, and that had to deeply affect everyone who heard this debate. .
We all have the desire to feel hurt and wallow in it, or blame our candidate for his faults. No matter how unfair the press has been for months, it is still a self-indulgent luxury we cannot afford. We should keep in mind as Tom Payne said about another revolution:
“This is the time that tries men’s souls…”
This is not the time to let the media tell us who won the debate. They were poised to say Clinton won even before the debate began.
Bernie had the very difficult task of showing what he had to offer was better than what Clinton was offering without doing in the Democratic Party in the general election and making for the disaster of having a Republican President. So he did what he could do which is repeatedly point out that Wall Street governs Washington not the reverse, and that he was the only candidate of both parties who had not been purchased by the so-called “donor class.” In perhaps, the only way he could, Bernie was saying do not believe what Clinton says.
The clever soundbites by Clinton are no more than that. Bernie told the truth, including about the e-mail nonsense, and that had to deeply affect everyone who heard this debate. .
We all have the desire to feel hurt and wallow in it, or blame our candidate for his faults. No matter how unfair the press has been for months, it is still a self-indulgent luxury we cannot afford. We should keep in mind as Tom Payne said about another revolution:
“This is the time that tries men’s souls…”
2
It's difficult to believe that the Democratic Party wants THIS to be head up their party for the next four years.
If this isn't a sign of the collapse of what the United States stood for, you'd have a tough time finding one.
Fired from Watergate...consistently lied and misled about a clear and strong violation of commitment to security...selling her office for money, most of which went to her personally ultimately and didn't stay with the Foundation...
Let's not forget that she has nothing to say except platitudes that, properly put in context, are about personal values and more a religious stance...and, of course, following on the newly heavy socialist agenda of the Democratic Party.
Good night, America.
If this isn't a sign of the collapse of what the United States stood for, you'd have a tough time finding one.
Fired from Watergate...consistently lied and misled about a clear and strong violation of commitment to security...selling her office for money, most of which went to her personally ultimately and didn't stay with the Foundation...
Let's not forget that she has nothing to say except platitudes that, properly put in context, are about personal values and more a religious stance...and, of course, following on the newly heavy socialist agenda of the Democratic Party.
Good night, America.
2
The growing desperation of all corporate media is becoming glaringly apparent in this and other articles in all major news sources nationwide as coverage and opinions now are mentioning the validity and agenda of Sanders remarks and clear agenda for the middle class, but only in contrast to the "strength" of Clinton's performance in this first debate. People know a winner with a consistent message when they see and hear him as well as they know a candidate who shifts and dodges with the most recent public opinion poll when they see or hear her.
2
I am very disappointed in the NY Times and other highly respectable news sources (The Guardian) for subverting the democratic process and declaring Hillary the winner when in fact many, and I think most, of us thought Sanders was the more passionate and honest of the two. Shame on the media, whom I typically defend, for making this inaccurate decision for us.
2
These "presidential" candidates, who look and act like millionaire CNN anchors or the most elite corporate lawyers, have really done well for the people of America over the past 40 years. Perhaps our narrow vision of what "presidential" looks and acts like perpetuates a cycle of more and more corrupting money being poured into our political system, resulting in "Affordable" Care Acts, perpetual wars on "terror", drilling in places there was not to be drilling, and unabated free trade and job loss when those policies were supposedly recognized as damaging to the American worker. So you stick with the corporate media's "presidential" candidates, I'll stick with the guy who knows what he's doing.
What debate? There wasn't even a full field of credible contenders. Light, softball questions were thrown her way. The format did not even permit sparring between the candidates, but no one seemed ready to go after her anyway. The media portrayed it as a discussion between "adults," but its entire purpose was just to say, "Yeah, we had a debate. So there." Like Hillary herself it was just a con.
Bernie Sanders may be more savvy than he's given credit for. By dismissing her email troubles, he may have effectively kept Joe Biden out of the race. Biden is a greater threat to Bernie than Hillary is, because: a) he's male; b) he's well liked; c) he has no (recent) scandals associated with him; d) he (perhaps) would have more support from Obama.
Bernie, you're a genius!
Bernie, you're a genius!
2
This piece not only belongs on the op-ed page, but even there, its analysis is way off. The reporter obviously gave serious thought to word choices that paint the most favorable picture of Clinton, with her "crisp answers," "authoritative performance," and "center-left liberalism." Whatever a "center-left liberal" is, it's not her. She's a centrist when the political winds blow toward the center, and a liberal when they blow toward liberalism. Left? Never. Another demonstration of the Times' slant toward her, another instance of focusing on Clinton as if she's the locus of our political life, and another instance of minimizing the impact of Bernie Sanders.
3
As I look out on the splendor of autumn, and realize the temperature/rainfall extremes of global warming put those grand old trees at risk, as well as every form of life on this planet, including our own, I feel this is not an election to risk.
Climate change has more longterm consequences than any other issue, and there is precious little time left to prevent the worst impact. So though I've never liked Clinton and would much prefer Bernie or Warren, I'll fall in line and vote for whoever can defeat a GOP candidate, sure to be a denier or "skeptic." There's just too much at stake.
Climate change has more longterm consequences than any other issue, and there is precious little time left to prevent the worst impact. So though I've never liked Clinton and would much prefer Bernie or Warren, I'll fall in line and vote for whoever can defeat a GOP candidate, sure to be a denier or "skeptic." There's just too much at stake.
1
Why did Hilary, Bernie, and the Democrats require a cable subscription to watch their debate? No free TV coverage. The debate sent a message to a lot of people. "You're too poor to watch us."
1
I will not vote for "Slick Hilly" if that is my choice. I'll pull the lever for the Green candidate instead - Jill Stein.
That the NYT falls all over itself for Hillary is itself telling about the apparent fear that a Sanders' win might bring to the establishment - which clearly the paper is- is no surprise, but a great shame for the "paper of note".
This was Bernie's first national debate. He brought FDR-style conviction, constancy of his ideas, passion, and truth. And by all counts (except apparently the NYT's) he won the debate.
That the NYT falls all over itself for Hillary is itself telling about the apparent fear that a Sanders' win might bring to the establishment - which clearly the paper is- is no surprise, but a great shame for the "paper of note".
This was Bernie's first national debate. He brought FDR-style conviction, constancy of his ideas, passion, and truth. And by all counts (except apparently the NYT's) he won the debate.
2
The record shows, Hillary has taken the blows, she does it her way.
What I find hard to understand is the surprise, especially among Democratic friends and colleagues. We go back far enough to remember the slings and arrows Hillary has suffered in the myriad attempts to take her down. Do they not realize that Benghasi is but the latest "Scandal" being foisted upon her? That like so many other alleged acts of criminality which have put both Clintons in the cross-hairs of their enemies, this also will prove to be another red herring.
Like the seasoned pro she is, Hillary upped her performance and brought her "A" game to the debate. Never doubt her resiliency, fortitude, and perseverance. In the end, Hillary, like cream, will rise to the top, and this nation will continue and improve upon the progressive policies initiated by President Obama. What we do not need is a return to the miasma Republicans have been conning us with for decades, from the trickle-down Voodoo Economics of Reagan to the tax cuts for the rich philosophy of George W.'s administration, their worn-out and failed policies just don't work for the poor and the middle class. Righting of the ship of state must be left to the Left.
DD
Manhattan
What I find hard to understand is the surprise, especially among Democratic friends and colleagues. We go back far enough to remember the slings and arrows Hillary has suffered in the myriad attempts to take her down. Do they not realize that Benghasi is but the latest "Scandal" being foisted upon her? That like so many other alleged acts of criminality which have put both Clintons in the cross-hairs of their enemies, this also will prove to be another red herring.
Like the seasoned pro she is, Hillary upped her performance and brought her "A" game to the debate. Never doubt her resiliency, fortitude, and perseverance. In the end, Hillary, like cream, will rise to the top, and this nation will continue and improve upon the progressive policies initiated by President Obama. What we do not need is a return to the miasma Republicans have been conning us with for decades, from the trickle-down Voodoo Economics of Reagan to the tax cuts for the rich philosophy of George W.'s administration, their worn-out and failed policies just don't work for the poor and the middle class. Righting of the ship of state must be left to the Left.
DD
Manhattan
3
Hillary asks us to forget her lies, inconsistencies, flip-flops, and stupidity - most recently in the email scandal.
One has to expect heavily biased reporting from the MSM. That's what I advise my students, asking them to find the time to compare reports from two or more sources, generally one on the Left like the NYT or WaPo, and one on the Right, like Fox News.
One has to expect heavily biased reporting from the MSM. That's what I advise my students, asking them to find the time to compare reports from two or more sources, generally one on the Left like the NYT or WaPo, and one on the Right, like Fox News.
1
Can't get results, so gotta send "messages". This is what happens (and is rapidly getting worse) when people who are not leaders are allowed to be in leadership positions. To say this is a country that is "crisis driven" is being overly polite.
I think Hillary plays all sides against the middle. If she is elected, we're likely to see more of the same from Wall Street and in the smoke-filled back rooms of DC. That may postpone a class war, but I'm not convinced it will preclude one. I think we need someone with Bernie's passion and honesty, to put a clean end to the Wall Street-K Street-Capitol Hill triangle, take America back from the oligarchy, and return it to the working middle class.
2
It was, as predicted, a "coronation." Maybe that's why NCIS got better ratings!! Democrat "debate" only got half the viewership of the GOP debate. Wonder why?
I thought Hillary Clinton did a fine job in the debate. I certainly wouldn't say she "won" it. The only winners were the American people who finally got to see the other Democratic candidates. Nothing she said will take my vote away from Bernie Sanders. The man has principles and the courage to say what he thinks and mean what he says. We cannot afford another President in bed with Wall Street and big business. We need a President "owned" by the people and that rules out everyone except Bernie Sanders.
3
The media "consensus" that Hillary won the debate is an elitist consensus. The polls and other measures like twitter handles and search term trends show something quite different--Sanders has capture a significant amount of public attention and support. Why the gap? The networks and outlets like the Times are scared witless about what is going on in the Republican party--no elite consensus there. But Hillary provides them predictatability and stability.
I found her defense of capitalism--sometimes we have to save capitalisim from itself--to be an admission of its failures. Again quite a different reading than you get from corporate media.
I found her defense of capitalism--sometimes we have to save capitalisim from itself--to be an admission of its failures. Again quite a different reading than you get from corporate media.
1
The Times seems to have crowned Hillary as the new Empress-in-waiting, and she may still get the Democratic nomination, but that's no guarantee that the electorate thirteen months from now will sing hosannas in her praise. She has too many skeletons in her closet and the Republican nominee, assuming it's not a loud-mouth billionaire braggart or a naive neurosurgeon who needs to bone up on our Constitution and read a bit more than Cliff Notes version of foreign affairs, will for certain come swinging at her.
For many Independents too, she comes across as a marionette, primed and polished into emitting a bright sheen, that has surface attraction on policy prescriptions but all political calculus, opportunism and expediency underneath. It's true that the electorate during the last two presidential elections displayed poor judgement and fell for smooth talk and easy solutions without substance proffered by a community activist hopelessly out of the depths in realpolitik, but how often can you expect people to fall for the same pabulum?
As I recall, wasn't it Lincoln who said something like you cannot fool all the people all the time?
For many Independents too, she comes across as a marionette, primed and polished into emitting a bright sheen, that has surface attraction on policy prescriptions but all political calculus, opportunism and expediency underneath. It's true that the electorate during the last two presidential elections displayed poor judgement and fell for smooth talk and easy solutions without substance proffered by a community activist hopelessly out of the depths in realpolitik, but how often can you expect people to fall for the same pabulum?
As I recall, wasn't it Lincoln who said something like you cannot fool all the people all the time?
If she would just keep this up and not get angry and appear frustrated in interviews. She needs to watch the TV series "Sandal" and learn from it. The psychology of that series is sound.
when dealing with this theme it´s time to change America is currently a major challenges to all Americans Hillary Clinton 2016
Mrs. Clinton did a good job of articulating her position and credentials. However, the difference between her polished "standard campaign" rhetoric and the passionate and straightforward "tell it like it" is delivery of Bernie Sanders is the difference between the slickness of politics as usual, and that of a strongly refreshing voice demanding a far more progressive direction for America. Look at the result of the dozens of focus group pilings: Sanders by more than 18 points in almost every one.
3
Clinton is under investigation for criminal activity by three different government agencies, and the U.S. Congress. It is not up to Sanders to let her off the hook. Besides, it is the denials and lies that resonate with the voters, not the actual sin. Did she "win" the "debate", absolutely. If you can call it that. I kept hearing the word free, over and over. Some words, such as deficit, job growth, and ISIS were strangely absent.
A male friend yesterday and I discussed the debate. I told him I liked Bernie Sanders, but did not think he was electable. He said he didn't like Hillary, said she wasn't specific enough on policy issues and then said "if she is the nominee, I am going to vote Republican."
I reminded him of the Republican party's across the board mission aggressive actions on women's health care issue and its passive aggressive standing with the gun lobby.
Men: please examine your "I don't like Hillary "knee-jerk attitudes. If you don't, we may end up with a lot of men voting for one of a lineup of bad actors who have demonstrated the damage they are going to do once in the Oval office.
If the democratic nominee is a woman, you can bet she will be a lot of things men don't like in females but respect in your standard male candidate. Please, don't shortchange women's health, gun safety, simply because you haven't figured out why. That would be a waste of all of our prospects for the next four years. Any republican is going to be a disaster. I think we all know that.
I reminded him of the Republican party's across the board mission aggressive actions on women's health care issue and its passive aggressive standing with the gun lobby.
Men: please examine your "I don't like Hillary "knee-jerk attitudes. If you don't, we may end up with a lot of men voting for one of a lineup of bad actors who have demonstrated the damage they are going to do once in the Oval office.
If the democratic nominee is a woman, you can bet she will be a lot of things men don't like in females but respect in your standard male candidate. Please, don't shortchange women's health, gun safety, simply because you haven't figured out why. That would be a waste of all of our prospects for the next four years. Any republican is going to be a disaster. I think we all know that.
1
The only message Clinton sent is that she is a strong debater and a weak leader.
1
“SANDERS WON THE DEBATE”
This is not the time to let the media tell us who won the debate. They were poised to say Clinton won even before the debate began.
Bernie had the very difficult task of showing what he had to offer was better than what Clinton was offering without doing in the Democratic Party in the general election and making for the disaster of having a Republican President. So he did what he could do which is repeatedly point out that Wall Street governs Washington not the reverse, and that he was the only candidate of both parties who had not been purchased by the so-called “donor class.” In perhaps, the only way he could, Bernie was saying do not believe what Clinton says.
The clever soundbites by Clinton are no more than that. Bernie told the truth, including about the e-mail nonsense, and that had to deeply affect everyone who heard this debate. .
We all have the desire to feel hurt and wallow in it, or blame our candidate for his faults. No matter how unfair the press has been for months, it is still a self-indulgent luxury we cannot afford. We should keep in mind as Tom Payne said about another revolution:
“This is the time that tries men’s souls…”
This is not the time to let the media tell us who won the debate. They were poised to say Clinton won even before the debate began.
Bernie had the very difficult task of showing what he had to offer was better than what Clinton was offering without doing in the Democratic Party in the general election and making for the disaster of having a Republican President. So he did what he could do which is repeatedly point out that Wall Street governs Washington not the reverse, and that he was the only candidate of both parties who had not been purchased by the so-called “donor class.” In perhaps, the only way he could, Bernie was saying do not believe what Clinton says.
The clever soundbites by Clinton are no more than that. Bernie told the truth, including about the e-mail nonsense, and that had to deeply affect everyone who heard this debate. .
We all have the desire to feel hurt and wallow in it, or blame our candidate for his faults. No matter how unfair the press has been for months, it is still a self-indulgent luxury we cannot afford. We should keep in mind as Tom Payne said about another revolution:
“This is the time that tries men’s souls…”
1
Not one mention of the Clinton's $2 billion loot pile amassed partly while she was Secretary of State and collecting "donations" from Middle Eastern countries lobbying to buy US weapons. In the history of the USA has anyone else, except of course Al Gore, come close to grabbing so much money after leaving Federal office?
Watching the Republican and now the Democratic debate and reading the comments on the NYT blog I am not surprised why USA is such a mess both domestically (anarchy where police has now the right to kill innocent teenagers and invalid citizens) and in Foreign Policy. Ms Hillary Clinton was 4 years Secretary of State made more air-mileage than Albright and didn't accomplish ANYTHING. On the contrary her involvement in the Benghazi murder of US Ambassador in Libya and her e-mail correspondence openly violating State Department's regulations shows total ignorance and arrogance as well. During her Husband Bill Clinton's White House time he was called 'Smooth Billy' it seems his wife learned something from him since her talk shows only total lack of understanding international politics but worse total ignorance of the well being of the American people.
I remember - while still living in USA - the words of JFK: 'The American people have ONLY ONE Person representing you in Washington and that's the President' That's now about 50 years ago but apparently the American people are still falling for empty phrases and promises by presidential candidates rather the evaluating their track record!
I remember - while still living in USA - the words of JFK: 'The American people have ONLY ONE Person representing you in Washington and that's the President' That's now about 50 years ago but apparently the American people are still falling for empty phrases and promises by presidential candidates rather the evaluating their track record!
Hillary.....vs ....Bernie...
is comparing a Masquerader sans pareil to one who never wears a mask..
in other words...untrustworthy vs trustworthy...
I pick trustworthy....there is too much to risk with Hillary...who wears the mask.
is comparing a Masquerader sans pareil to one who never wears a mask..
in other words...untrustworthy vs trustworthy...
I pick trustworthy....there is too much to risk with Hillary...who wears the mask.
1
The press made her out to be inept last Spring. Today, the press has performed a 9 G turn at Mach 3. She has become a goddess overnight and hours into the following day..., one cable news station website forum is blocking pro Sanders comments. I thought the press was all washed up but they have won the first debate and are enlivened. I think they're gonna win this thing.
I think Hillary Clinton showed yesterday that she is ready to lead. She was presidential at all moments and was so very well prepared. She knew this was her moment and she made it happen. you have to respect that.
I like her line "I am progressive that can make things happen". That is what we need, a doer.
I like her line "I am progressive that can make things happen". That is what we need, a doer.
I am a Democrat and a Bernie supporter. I will vote for him in the primaries and the general. If he should lose, I will not vote for HRC but will vote for fellow Democrats on the ticket so that I can at least be satisfied that I have followed my convictions.
HRC has not earned my vote and does not represent my values. She conveniently pivots from one position to another when she thinks it will be to her benefit. "I was for it but now I'm against it" flip-flopping and her inability to answer questions, and downplaying the issues surrounding her use of an unprotected e-mail server should give people pause to think about her honesty and truthfulness. There is always controversy surrounding the Clinton's and I want someone in the WH who will concentrate on the important issues that our country faces instead of having to listen to mainstream media discuss and dissect e-mails, etc. I am tired of " picking the lesser of two evils" just to have a Democrat in the WH and if this is who American people think is the best choice then they will have to live with the consequences. I don't believe for one minute that HRC will be able to get any meaningful legislation passed through the House and Senate as she has clearly indicated in this past debate that she considers the Republicans to be among her enemies.
IMHO, Bernie is the only candidate with the convictions, integrity and ability to work in a bipartisan fashion in this 2016 presidential race.
HRC has not earned my vote and does not represent my values. She conveniently pivots from one position to another when she thinks it will be to her benefit. "I was for it but now I'm against it" flip-flopping and her inability to answer questions, and downplaying the issues surrounding her use of an unprotected e-mail server should give people pause to think about her honesty and truthfulness. There is always controversy surrounding the Clinton's and I want someone in the WH who will concentrate on the important issues that our country faces instead of having to listen to mainstream media discuss and dissect e-mails, etc. I am tired of " picking the lesser of two evils" just to have a Democrat in the WH and if this is who American people think is the best choice then they will have to live with the consequences. I don't believe for one minute that HRC will be able to get any meaningful legislation passed through the House and Senate as she has clearly indicated in this past debate that she considers the Republicans to be among her enemies.
IMHO, Bernie is the only candidate with the convictions, integrity and ability to work in a bipartisan fashion in this 2016 presidential race.
5
I totally agree about Bernie, Kristie, but consider where you live. Allowing a GOP climate change denier a victory could be disasterous for your state. Actually, all life on earth. That's just too much to risk.
Sanders and Clinton both did well, but Sanders' integrity is much more present. However the clear difference of perception of their performances by this journal and its very own readers makes me uncomfortable. It confirms a trend that has been going on for months now.
8
ANOTHER media source distorting the facts, HILLARY was NOT EVEN CLOSE to being the winner. Check all online polls and not what the NYTIMES would like your to think.
6
Bernie was declared the winner by every single focus group, and every single online poll. Yet the media declared Hillary the winner. The disconnect is weird.
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/if_sanders_won_the_focus_groups_and_...
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/if_sanders_won_the_focus_groups_and_...
8
New York times has lost me. In their politics section you have to scroll down 7 articles of Hillary coverage to find anything on Sanders. Well that is not journalism. Not fair, not comprehensive. I wish they would get with the times and allow me to unsubscribe without a phone call. That alone is reason enough to tell them to chuck it.
I have no problem with Hillary but lets hear more about Sanders. What he is saying is news.
http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/10/how-the-democratic-debate-...
I have no problem with Hillary but lets hear more about Sanders. What he is saying is news.
http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/10/how-the-democratic-debate-...
6
Get real, the whole "debate" (debacle?) was rigged to make Hilary Clinton look good. If you fell for it, you'll fall for anything! Anytime Hilary opens her mouth, I just shut my ears. One can only stomach so many lies in one's short lifetime.
6
People new, but media and DNC establishment desperately tried to push their own agenda, i.e Biden to to displace Sanders challenge to them.
1
In the last two days, the NYT has published news, analysis and opinion pieces declaring Mrs. Clinton to be the undisputed winner of the first debate and the clear front-runner in the campaign for the Democratic nomination. However, if you look at the actual poll numbers, social media and even the comments posted by an overwhelming majority of readers here, that doesn’t appear to be the case at all.
I’d be interested to know what the NYT makes of this glaring discrepancy and why it consistently reports and opines that Mrs. Clinton somehow gained an edge over Senator Sanders in the debate when there seems to be little, if any, evidence or data to support this. I think NYT subscribers and readers would like to know and that we’re entitled to an explanation.
I’d be interested to know what the NYT makes of this glaring discrepancy and why it consistently reports and opines that Mrs. Clinton somehow gained an edge over Senator Sanders in the debate when there seems to be little, if any, evidence or data to support this. I think NYT subscribers and readers would like to know and that we’re entitled to an explanation.
6
Casual polls conducted with likes and tweets on social media and plopped on websites are neither valid nor reliable. To be both of these the sample must be structured to reflect the proper universe. The informal numbers and viral counts that appear are their own clickbait.
Why does the NY Times keep reporting Clinton so much? She talks a lot without managing to say anything. It must be hard to keep writing so many words about a candidate who, from my perspective, if she has ideas, refuses to talk about them. What about that other guy? The one who clearly states exactly what he believes. This campaign coverage from the Times has been so skewed it is sickeningly ridiculous. Report the news. Stop campaigning for Clinton.
5
This is a real concerning factor which chills one to the bone, period. During her office as Secretary of State we've experienced one of the most horrific incidents involving a sitting ambassador of the United States which could perhaps somewhat be compared to the Iran crisis in 1979. An official of the US government and some additional staff tragically lost their lives in Benghazi, Libya due to gross incompetence of someone like Hillary who should never have been placed in that position in the first place. The aftermath of that sad sad state of affairs was four families who all lost a loved one and Hillary having the audacity to still want to run for president of this country. God forbid that she wins cause imagine how she will fail a country if she already failed her office. Myself and many registered Democrats WILL not be voting for the Democrats in this election due to the inability or unwillingness of Obama not to bring her to ransom for her incompetence as well as for the email debacle. More and more Dem supporters WILL rather be voting for the GOP if Donald Trump wins the nomination, which is a foregone conclusion and will make the Democratic party pay dearly for THEIR incompetence at the polls in Nov 16. I wish to urge all sober minded people to do the same and think for one moment how for the life of anyone can any of these candidates be capable of holding the highest office. We need to make AMERICA GREAT AGAIN and the only gone who can do it is Trump.
So, you're a Democrat who will vote for a Republican because four Americans died in Benghazi? You're actually saying the 9/11 disaster that was used to "justify" the unrelated bogus invasion of Iraq that cost trillions, killed, maimed, or dislocated millions, and destabilized the Middle East for decades, all under a Republican regime should be forgotten?
As well as the Great Recession?
Is that what you're saying?
As well as the Great Recession?
Is that what you're saying?
1
I really want to back Bernie Sanders, I do - but this debate has shown that Clinton is a masterful diplomat, carefully and cooly weaving through issues and policies with extraordinary moderation and careful tact. Sanders is a passionate fellow, appealing to the most important issue that the U.S. middle-class has ever faced - the great class divide - and his Larry David-esque exasperation over the state of our country is shared by many; his opinions are strong, but I am skeptical to believe that he has the shrewd diplomacy and compromising fortitude needed to convince the government in backing his policies.
Clinton is calm, collected, and willing to stand her ground on the issues she believes in. She has complete confidence in the issues she will be able to govern, rather than broadly slamming various aspects of economic and class turmoil, like Sanders has done. And I'm just not sure I want a President who will constantly be raising his voice in frustration during state-of-the-union addresses (Jimmy Kimmel crying over a lion was enough, can you imagine Sanders ranting about big businesses in the Oval Office?).
Clinton is calm, collected, and willing to stand her ground on the issues she believes in. She has complete confidence in the issues she will be able to govern, rather than broadly slamming various aspects of economic and class turmoil, like Sanders has done. And I'm just not sure I want a President who will constantly be raising his voice in frustration during state-of-the-union addresses (Jimmy Kimmel crying over a lion was enough, can you imagine Sanders ranting about big businesses in the Oval Office?).
24
I DO want a president who raises his voice over the entrapment of the people in this failing country and its ferocious corporate greed. I don't want cool and presidential -- and a woman full to the top of her head with SuperPak from the very class we must attack for their brutal crimes against wage-earners and families.
Amazing that the mainstream media has declared clinton a clear winner even though there are counless postdebate polls showing that Bernie was considered the winner by those who watched.
4
"Damning revelations"? We expect self-righteous histrionics and hypocritical moralizing from the Republicans, but the real damning revelation is how the media has been fully cooperative with the GOP agenda of destroying Hillary at all costs. It isn't going to work. The voters, and not the NY Times, will be the ones to define "damning."
Sanders or Biden / Warren please.
Guess Hillary won if that means avoid answering questions and evading the truth. The FBI email time bomb is still ticking.
Guess Hillary won if that means avoid answering questions and evading the truth. The FBI email time bomb is still ticking.
3
For those who think the Times in shilling for Hillary:
1) The Times broke the manufactured email scandal
2) Salon, The Atlantic, ABC, and many others said Hillary did extremely well and rendered a Biden run unpromising. This is a mainstream position. Is the entire mainstream and digital media bought off? Really? Let's not resort to desperate conspiracy theories.
1) The Times broke the manufactured email scandal
2) Salon, The Atlantic, ABC, and many others said Hillary did extremely well and rendered a Biden run unpromising. This is a mainstream position. Is the entire mainstream and digital media bought off? Really? Let's not resort to desperate conspiracy theories.
1
A favorite campaign trick the GOP pulls (really the brain-child of Karl Rove) is to highlight an apparent GOP weakness, and through misinformation, out-and-out blatant lies, and code-words make it the weakness of the opponent. We´re seeing this gimmick play out now with the GOP assault on Hillary Clinton's character being coded "untrustworthy" (or "untrustable" as McCarthy so succinctly put it) and "dishonest" and brazenly being attributed to Clinton gratuitously at every turn without qualification. So persistent is this character assassination effort that I see this theme embraced in many of the comments here. Even in debate analyses at hand now, conservative pundits keep trying to make it an issue peculiar to Clinton where it could just as well or even more appropriately be applied to most of the GOP candidates.
2
Polls overwhelmingly show Sanders as the winner. NYT rolling out multiple and at times redundant articles christening Hillary as the winner within hours of its conclusion. It almost seems as if the times is using headlines to push what they hope is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If your reporters say it enough times it will be so. Even the Hillary supporters acknowledge the tone and style in which NYT mentions Sanders is less than fair most of the time. As a long time who is still unsure of my candidate I am extremely dissapointed and frustrated in almost transparently biased manner in which HRC is covered. It is so aggressive and strange. Never seen anything like it from this usually fine institution. Maybe it goes to show that you don't know and don't care to know the true pulse of the public.
6
I have yet to see how Bernie's ""revolution"" (I use double quotes because it's such a strange term in this situation) is going to materialize or what it would even look like in the first place. Is caucusing at a local church really revolutionary? Is engaging in orderly politics and donating $5 revolutionary? We are sure playing fast and loose with the term.
Bernie is a passionate figure but advocating for fairness is no more extraordinary than what Teddy or FDR did.
Bernie is a passionate figure but advocating for fairness is no more extraordinary than what Teddy or FDR did.
1
Much as I like Biden, his "will he or won't he" strategy was perhaps less a measure of his own ambitions at this late stage, and more of a calculated Dem "insurance policy", prompted by Clinton's previously slipping polls and apparent uncertainty. So now that they've given Hillary a chance to prove her ability and commitment, there's obviously no need to send in the 'backup team".
2
That Biden was never mentioned during the debate was respectful. That Bernie Sanders was barely mentioned in this article on the debate is disgraceful. Yes, Hillary may have been more "presidential," but what does that really mean? That she acts more like a real politician? Bernie's wide appeal is precisely that he does not. He's real. How is it that so many in the MSM fell for Hillary's slickly rehearsed whitewash of her shifting views that cleave to those of any particular audience? The breadth of Bernie's appeal continues to surprise. Why doesn't that give pause to those who fear his unelectability? I have trouble imagining a Sanders/O'Malley ticket not beating the pants off of any if the clowns on the other side of the election divide. This comes from a lifelong registered Republican. That's over. I'm all for giving "democratic socialism" a la Bernie a shot. But I'll sit this one out before voting for the "more presidential" politician that Hillary embodies.
2
Search the internet to find out who people thought won the debate and Bernie wins by a landslide.
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/data-mine/2015/10/14/who-won-the-debate...
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/data-mine/2015/10/14/who-won-the-debate...
1
Just watched the debate ate. Sorry for the untimely comment.
Do you know why there's recklessness on Wall Street? Because the salaries and bonuses of Wall Street executives are tied to profits and volume. The more money these Wall Street racketeers churn the more money these Wall Street executives take home.
Banks and investment firms are inanimate legal entities. We need to fine and prosecute the executives who drive the recklessness and confiscate their ill-gotten gain.
Do you know why there's recklessness on Wall Street? Because the salaries and bonuses of Wall Street executives are tied to profits and volume. The more money these Wall Street racketeers churn the more money these Wall Street executives take home.
Banks and investment firms are inanimate legal entities. We need to fine and prosecute the executives who drive the recklessness and confiscate their ill-gotten gain.
I guess Hillary will win the presidency.
1
She fits now, a veritable superwoman. All of her experience in this administration and others nearly assures the world that yes, a Clinton will be President and Chelsea is not ready and The Bush regime, although battered, will be presenting a new Bush soon, there is a young good looking Bush who is being cultivated by breeders with expertise in landrace Bushes. I feel as if I over-disliked Ms. Clinton early this year and now I am quickened from her glory and what is wrong here? I did not like her. Today, I feel that I like her. That is ridiculous. It is a function of thinking that I know any real thing about any person in this silly beauty pageant. This feels Soviet. Trust me, I turned 60 this year and now I recognize that I understand everything and am not thoughtlessly cynical at the moment when I say: This is not real, and is, moreover, rigged for Clintons and Bushes. Bernie took a dive. That wasn't real either.
Let's for a moment go with this Clinton campaign piece purporting to be journalism. Okay, NYTimes, she won this debate. And? She is still the same cynical, money grabbing liar she was before the "win." She told the banks "to cut it out." O, the bravery! The same bravery she demonstrated under the sniper fire in Bosnia. Shame on us for having her as a frontrunner.
1
The staged performance to portray Hillary as a "reasonably sane liberal" worked fairly well. I would vote for nearly any one of the republican candidates over Hillary but she's very likely the next president. It would be difficult to find anyone more dishonest and greedy than Hillary Clinton.
What i find amazing from the distance, nobody seems to be aware of grief related reasons. Maybe politics already has become so cynical, that one does not like to look to death and the inner work one is doing at that time. Clinton may be high or low, other candidates may surprise or not, sometimes other "values" than what media think are at work.
New York Times journalists and editors are entitled to evaluate the performance of Democratic debate participants and to report on their conclusions. For that matter, I agree that Clinton had a very good night and Sanders less so. Thus, I concur with the Times suggesting that Clinton won.
It is inexcusable, however, that the Times does not appear to be reporting on the diverse focus group and online polling results that suggest that Sanders may have won the debate. While these results are unscientific and will have to be substantiated by polls conducted with random sampling, their results are at least as accurate as the judgments of Times' editors and reporters.
Once again, the Times fails to fully inform its readers in order to pursue a pro-Clinton agenda. The Times is irretrievably impairing its credibility in reporting the 2016 presidential race in such a biased fashion.
It is inexcusable, however, that the Times does not appear to be reporting on the diverse focus group and online polling results that suggest that Sanders may have won the debate. While these results are unscientific and will have to be substantiated by polls conducted with random sampling, their results are at least as accurate as the judgments of Times' editors and reporters.
Once again, the Times fails to fully inform its readers in order to pursue a pro-Clinton agenda. The Times is irretrievably impairing its credibility in reporting the 2016 presidential race in such a biased fashion.
23
Anetliner Netliner
They're not reporting on them because (as you admit) they're completely worthless. Completely worthless! They don't represent sound value judgment but simply reflect the opinions of left wing Clinton haters at venues like Kos or right wing ones at Fox. It's hard to believe you have to explain this.
They're not reporting on them because (as you admit) they're completely worthless. Completely worthless! They don't represent sound value judgment but simply reflect the opinions of left wing Clinton haters at venues like Kos or right wing ones at Fox. It's hard to believe you have to explain this.
4
Both Hillary and Bernie benefitted but she more so. It wasn't really a "debate" so nobody won.
I'm disappointed by how quickly the "forced card" nomination of Hillary Clinton was accepted by so many of my fellow Democrats. I thought Hillary remained challengeable Tuesday night, and I've been voting for Clintons without fail in all their previous presidential or pre-presidential contests. But did she so dominate the debate that she sent Joe Biden and all the men on-stage straight to the cloakroom, and herself right into the big-bucks voting machines? Those who take this send-off at face value wouldn't recognize a back-room job even if it took off its Halloween clothes. As for me, my next job is voting for Hillary, since even if her opponent isn't Donald Trump, it's sure to be a Republican. And we've already been scared silly by that show.
10
I wonder if the DNC instructed CNN on the questions they could answer. There wasn't much on foreign affairs, ISIS and such. Also, the email questions were shut down pretty quickly. I think these are areas of vulnerability for Mrs. Clinton.
3
I think Bernie Sanders effectively put the email question to its long overdue death. It is a "fish issue", pushed by Republicans and fanned by the media. As Sanders put it, the country has way, way more important issues to worry about than this nonsense. I do think the question on how to deal with ISIS was not given enough attention.
I would call myself far left, but I am so concerned that Sanders (a good man) will lose nearly as badly as McGovern, that I can never support him. The November election is not a Democratic primary. It is about preventing a disaster if a Republican wins
14
Preventing a disaster is exactly why no democrat will win, why some will vote Republican and most will stay home.
It's not so clear cut; Hillary has an image problem with the entire Republican Party, will have many more antagonistic toward her in the Congress then they were toward a black president with a Muslim name, and she's on already seen as divisive. Whereas Bernie in polls is actually doing as well with independents and more liberal Republicans than all of the republican contenders. It's not so much about winning the Democratic base as it is winning the country. Trump has already brought up the communist card which means it's out there and can be tested . Bernie's numbers on his financial plans are sound even though the biasec New York Times didn't think so. I think you're all going to be quite surprised about the collective country support of Sanders versus the electability of Clinton. The only way someone like Trump could beat him is if he were to offer a more comprehensive way to help the middle class that convinces them so.
The minute Hillary announced her campaign, I said it's about time we have a female President. Especially with the idiot Trump running, we are going to need a viable candidate. Hillary has my vote.
9
Hillary owned the debate hands down.
Bernie held his own better than I expected, but still he stumbled and showed his naivete on his scheme to break up the big banks. In true stateswoman style, Hillary corrected him that in order to rein in capitalism's excesses she will go after all the financial institutions, not just the banks. And not to break them up but to hold them accountable, including prosecuting firms and individuals and send them to jail if convicted, enforce Dodd-Frank and the Consumer Protection Act.
And, unlike Bernie, Hillary does not expect her supporters to give up their day jobs to do hers by standing outside the Capitol everyday picketing and protesting to fuel Bernie's revolution. Bernie says he can't do it alone, but he shouldn't count on the revolution he is describing. Once he's elected, voters will expect him to do what he promised and he will not be able to deliver. I admire Bernie greatly, but his quixotic vision has disconnected him from reality. That is not the case with Hillary, who is grounded in reality and knows how to accomplish her mission. She demonstrated that at last night's debate. She was just fabulous.
Bernie held his own better than I expected, but still he stumbled and showed his naivete on his scheme to break up the big banks. In true stateswoman style, Hillary corrected him that in order to rein in capitalism's excesses she will go after all the financial institutions, not just the banks. And not to break them up but to hold them accountable, including prosecuting firms and individuals and send them to jail if convicted, enforce Dodd-Frank and the Consumer Protection Act.
And, unlike Bernie, Hillary does not expect her supporters to give up their day jobs to do hers by standing outside the Capitol everyday picketing and protesting to fuel Bernie's revolution. Bernie says he can't do it alone, but he shouldn't count on the revolution he is describing. Once he's elected, voters will expect him to do what he promised and he will not be able to deliver. I admire Bernie greatly, but his quixotic vision has disconnected him from reality. That is not the case with Hillary, who is grounded in reality and knows how to accomplish her mission. She demonstrated that at last night's debate. She was just fabulous.
12
Bernie's scheme? Try restoration of the banking act that Bill Clinton rescinded in 1999 which kept us safer from inappropriate fiscal behavior for decades.
Here's a message for the New York Times. This campaign is about existentiaI threats: climate change, the obliteration of the middle class, the end of privacy, the capture of our legislature by Wall Street and the Tea Party. Not emails. And not "polish". When your house is on fire, you don't call a lawyer. You call the fireman.
17
Oh good grief. Well your strong endorsement of HRC only undermines just how influenced you are by your luxury goods and banking conglomerate advertisers. What are you afraid of NYTimes? Do you fear that media monopolies will be fair game if Bernie Sanders is elected? Well, you will find out how irrelevant the mainstream media is when the people of America bypass you and use every other means available to spread Bernie's message. Our Bernie Sanders debate watch event last night (one of 4,000 around the country) drew 300 people from all walks of life, all races, all ages. People understand we need a political revolution in this country and we are going to work at the grassroots level until we again restore some semblance of the American Dream for the poor, working class and middle class Americans We will continue to volunteer as if our lives depend on it (because in many ways they do) for Bernie Sanders and the ideas for which he stands. He's the real deal. Unvarnished and unrehearsed. He feels our pain and will do something about it - not make hollow promises like HRC who will then turn around and do her corporate donor's bidding if elected.
17
Hmmm... Why do you suppose I get the impression that the Times and other mainstream media are pushing this notion that Hillary (a) totally won the debate, and (b) is the candidate-presumptive for the Democrats? Watching the debates, I saw a bright, glossy, utterly superficial Clinton who clearly had been well prepped by her handlers and focus groups. Nemmind all the cognitive dissonance underneath: "Just tell her what you want, what you really, REALLY want!"
9
We need a winnable candidate. Is Berie Sanders winnable? Don't think so. I will go for Hillary
14
I'm reading that CCN exit polls ranked Bernie Sanders (not my guy) as top finisher in the debate. But the NYT touts Hillary in the debate. For some time now the Times has become a nearly transparent Hillary cheerleader.
15
Hillary was coached and practiced a lot -- she is as phony as a three-dollar bill and cannot be trusted. The woman flip flops so much, she makes me dizzy.
the New York Times was correct - she gave a good 'performance'.
the New York Times was correct - she gave a good 'performance'.
12
And if her performance was lousy you would be praising her? Of course not.
Can you admit that no matter what Hilary Clinton said or did on that stage last night, you were not likely to be won over?
Can you admit that no matter what Hilary Clinton said or did on that stage last night, you were not likely to be won over?
Sheep.
2
Comparing last nights debate to the Republican attempt at a debate...No contest. Most Americans can readily see how dysfunctional the Republican Party is..both in the presidential contest, but also at every junction in the House of Representatives.
So, what about Trump. Frankly, all he could say is perhaps the condition of HS's hair or other. And for Bush, he has absolutely no chance being the "last man standing". And as for Carson, few believe most Republicans would vote for another African-American candidate.
H Clinton did very well..Intelligent, know the issues, has the international contacts...and Bill....
So, what about Trump. Frankly, all he could say is perhaps the condition of HS's hair or other. And for Bush, he has absolutely no chance being the "last man standing". And as for Carson, few believe most Republicans would vote for another African-American candidate.
H Clinton did very well..Intelligent, know the issues, has the international contacts...and Bill....
8
Responding to the headline only. Hillary "Chills" the Biden movement. No kidding! Hillary CHILLS everything that suggests rebirth of the economy, social values, employment capability and the recovery of world presence.
9
All of the corporate media’s accolades for Mrs. Clinton’s allegedly “commanding” debate performance serve only to underscore two undeniable truths:
1) The corporate media will do whatever it takes to ensure coverage of the campaign is skewed to favor candidates who place corporate interests first, and 2) The corporate media are terrified of an electoral process that they can no longer manipulate or control.
1) The corporate media will do whatever it takes to ensure coverage of the campaign is skewed to favor candidates who place corporate interests first, and 2) The corporate media are terrified of an electoral process that they can no longer manipulate or control.
13
Biden would be a good VP pick for her. Even better would be Mayor Bloomberg.
4
The best position on the podium,the best lighting and Spielberg's
coaches still didn't convince anyone who is repelled by Clinton's mendacity
that she presidential.I will not vote for her. I am NOT tired of hearing about
her emails.
coaches still didn't convince anyone who is repelled by Clinton's mendacity
that she presidential.I will not vote for her. I am NOT tired of hearing about
her emails.
9
I'm surprised the NYT is so unabashedly biased in favor of Clinton. In every poll out today, people overwhelmingly stated that Bernie Sanders was the clear winner of last night's debate.
13
This is your sixth article in less than two days lauding Hillary Clinton's debate performance. Is it not possible that Joe Biden saw what many viewers saw in Bernie Sanders, a formidable gracious opponent, who did extremely well in the debate. No he wasn't as slick as practiced as Clinton, but many of his answers were what I was happy to hear. I do think we as a country as more threatened by climate change than Syria and we could learn something from countries like Denmark. Clinton, the one who voted yes on the war in Iraq, faulted Sanders on his gun positions. Even those positions didn't weaken him in my eyes. He does get a D- rating from the NRA. He is trying to find common ground. What did Clinton actually say in the debate that she would do about this or any issue for that matter other than she has a plan.
Yes we get it, the NY Times wants Clinton to be the Democrat candidate. But could you at least offer some objective reasons why she should be the candidate, no matter what, instead of this nonstop adoration. This isn't American Idol or the Voice.
Yes we get it, the NY Times wants Clinton to be the Democrat candidate. But could you at least offer some objective reasons why she should be the candidate, no matter what, instead of this nonstop adoration. This isn't American Idol or the Voice.
14
What a disconnect! Hey NYT, the people who watched the debate but aren't paid to write about it overwhelmingly consider Sanders the winner. Have a look at Time, CNN, Slate, Myfox8, Advocate.com, NJ.com, politics.blog.statesman, dailykos, msnbcnews, syracuse.com, kwqc, politics.heraldtribune. The list of online polls is seemingly endless, and I couldn't find one that wen the other way, and the margins were not small.
10
Having watched the Democrats debate was most unimpressed overall. Mr. Sanders is a died in the wool socialist and, in fact, believe Hillary is also. The amusing part was the knowledge of the Clintons bank account and the money funded for her campaign. Knowing her history and track record over the years I cannot believe her audacity in attempting to become the next President. Sadly, the days of the likes of the Kennedy's and FDR are long gone.
1
The debate boiled down to the top two candidates. It was substance (Sanders) vs. style (Clinton). If you wanted substance, Bernie won. If you preferred style then Hillary won. However, the NY Times needs to do a much better job of balanced reporting for both candidates. Please stop covering Hillary all the time, and Sanders none of the time. I was shocked to read when the NYTimes reported that when the crowd erupted over Bernie's emails speech, the credit for that went to Hillary. Really? That was telling.
13
As we wind down the day and the Democrat debate fades from memory, let me interject some humor to keep it all light and end on a good note..................
If Bernie Sanders is truly a Revolutionary, isn't it best we make him President so we don't suffer through a Revolution?
Don't worry! He'll become establishment right away as all those advisers surround him and talk his ear off.
There are always ways to keep the peace.
If Bernie Sanders is truly a Revolutionary, isn't it best we make him President so we don't suffer through a Revolution?
Don't worry! He'll become establishment right away as all those advisers surround him and talk his ear off.
There are always ways to keep the peace.
2
The other 3 candidates sang Mill's Bros. medleys during the breaks. One of them lit his guitar on fire, it was awesome. But we still can't remember his name. Someone saw Trump drive by Sanders house and shoot out his porch light after Bernie defused the Hillary server. Then Trump went to Trump and fired all the servers. But he gave them a challenge and by next episode, they will be rehired with double wages. It's good television, and that's important.
Wow the Clinton supporters are really deep into the cool aide. Yes Clinton is so concerned about the middle class. That's why she was a member of the board of directors of Walmart for years. That's why she charges colleges and universities hundred of thousands of dollars for twenty minute speeches. That's why she's AWOL on the Westchester County, NY, (the county where one of her multiple million dollar house is) vs. HUD case. The county does not want to build affordable housing. That's why she takes hundreds of thousands of dollars from Banks. Hillary is interested only in lining her pockets.
12
That would be 'Kool-Aid'. Ummm, yummy. I think we could do better than a long entrenched bureaucrat like Ms. Clinton but this is fantastic Kool-Aid. Next debate, I hope they placate me with Fizzies.
Regardless of her performance last night:
1. The e-mails remain important to the families of the ones who lost their lives in Libya and elsewhere because of Clinton's illegal e-mail set up;
2. She clearly was doing business with Blumenthal in Libya;
3. She needs to account for the Clinton Foundation's nefarious relationship with the State Department; and,
4. Bill Clinton was impeached for lying.
Expect a lot of dirty politics with The Clintons going forward.
1. The e-mails remain important to the families of the ones who lost their lives in Libya and elsewhere because of Clinton's illegal e-mail set up;
2. She clearly was doing business with Blumenthal in Libya;
3. She needs to account for the Clinton Foundation's nefarious relationship with the State Department; and,
4. Bill Clinton was impeached for lying.
Expect a lot of dirty politics with The Clintons going forward.
5
We have heard this all before, ad nauseam. (What? No mention of Whitewater? No Travelgate?)
SO…what else you got?
SO…what else you got?
"Bill Clinton was impeached for...." Huh? Please, I don't like her but don't make me look foolish by stretching for reasons. She made Bishop Pike disappear I bet, cheesh.
Bernie took a dive, by the way. Someone said, "Kid, it's not your night, we're goin' for the money on Clinton."
Bernie took a dive, by the way. Someone said, "Kid, it's not your night, we're goin' for the money on Clinton."
Joe was being promoted by Republicans at the expense of Democrats and the country. By destroying Mrs Clinton, they would have weakened her and drained precious resources. Joe Biden did not have any chance of success as a candidate of the Democratic party. Just look at comments/editorials about him by the very media who have been talking about his eminent entry in the rice. He is nobody's fool and knows his non elect-ability. Joe, get a good night sleep with a glass of Maryland wine and a good novel.
1
The times really blew it, gushing over potential candidate Clinton to the point of sending out unsolicited opinion pieces supporting her after her lackluster showing last night. She did convince me to vote for Senator Sanders, so her performance did have some impact.
I just hope Senator Sanders does not get pressured into accepting her as a running mate.
I just hope Senator Sanders does not get pressured into accepting her as a running mate.
9
In my humble opinion,
Only 1 candidate showed any class.
Only 1 candidate was short on rhetoric and long on specifics. Even when pressed.
That candidate wasn't Hillary.
Only 1 candidate showed any class.
Only 1 candidate was short on rhetoric and long on specifics. Even when pressed.
That candidate wasn't Hillary.
13
I agree Hillary did well, but her position on the invasion of Iraq was not her only disagreement with the other contestants. Most of the media seems to have missed the dramatic conflict over her support of the big banks. She was challenged from both sides with her hands spread wide --- in defense or negation. It seemed to work. All four challenged her stand in support of the banks and I suspect most of the Democratic Party as well as thinking Republicans.
6
From Bob: Jerusalem exploding in violence and not one question concerning our support and financing of the longest occupation of an indigenous people in modern history? What a farce posing as debate, I'm embarrassed to be an American.
3
I have a strong suspicion the mainstream media, including my favorite national paper, had 2 stories written in advance of the debate. Story A- Clinton stumbles, is on ropes, Sanders real threat, Biden urged to enter race. Story B - Clinton hits home run, slam dunks it, scores knockout (pick your sports metaphor). There would be no in-between. Surveys of actual VOTERS, as opposed to the elite opinion brokers, showed a majority of viewers thought Sanders won, but it is amazing how hard the mainstream media is picking the glorious Clinton victory as the theme of the day. In truth, HRC was pretty much in standard HRC form for these debates, nothing remarkable, and rather shifty on TPP and Wall Street Glass-Steagall, but since she did not start speaking in tongues or try to rip Bernie Sanders' heart out of his chest, I guess that constitutes a shining victory in mainstream media-speak.
5
This article is pure propaganda and should be labeled as an opinion piece. Shame on the NYT for passing it off as news. There isnt a named source in the lead or the first 3 paragraphs. Who are these unnamed Democrats referred to? Its just the writer injecting his own opinion - but why? The Times should not be going out of its way to pump up Hilary, or any other candidate.
12
All the online polls - repeat all the online polls - show that Bernie Sanders won. Why is the Times distorting the debate's outcome? Is it because the Times is the newspaper of the .1%?
11
We came, we saw, he died.
Should be: We came, we saw, he died, Libya was torn to shreds.
That says enough to me about the woman. No way will I vote for her.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgcd1ghag5Y
Should be: We came, we saw, he died, Libya was torn to shreds.
That says enough to me about the woman. No way will I vote for her.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgcd1ghag5Y
2
I just made another donation to Bernie.
8
Biden is a decent man but his time to be president has surely passed. He said as much in various interviews about needing to be "fully committed" and "not knowing if my heart is fully there". Look Joe, don't pull a "Paul Ryan" on us, if you're not sure about something THIS important then the answer is clearly NO, you're not the one. Added to that, while you've been a good support in your role as VP to President Obama, I don't think you have the right constitution for the top job. Finally, it should be clear to you that Hillary Clinton is a strong candidate and will be a strong president once elected and honestly what do you think you have to offer us that she can't offer and then some. I'm sure there will be those narrow-minded buffoons who will say "Biden doesn't have an email scandal" to which I would reply: WHAT EMAIL SCANDAL? The one being directed by the Bengazhi House Sub-Committee?
4
Hillary's performance was great - I will now make a contribution to her campaign.
6
So the consensus is that Hillary won the debate. I'm not sure what "winning the debate" means. To the best of what I can make out, it means that she did an excellent job selling herself. Whether she described the product accurately or not doesn't seem to be of any concern to anyone.
IMHO, a presidential election amounts to a national collective IQ test.
IMHO, a presidential election amounts to a national collective IQ test.
5
Dear lord, it has been exhausting to be a Bernie supporter and an NY Times reader today. Will you publish an article that actually gives Bernie the credit he deserves? Anything that was done to put the email controversy the rest had nothing to do with Clinton herself. That was Bernie. Bernie, who puts politics over petty political games. Bernie, whose integrity outweighs his need to pander for political favor. I'm not sure he's the president we deserve, but he's the president we would be oh-so lucky to have.
10
I watched the debate with great interest, especially with the hope that someone other than Hillary Clinton might become the Democratic nominee...because I know many moderates will never vote for her.
Sanders probably won this debate in the minds of many Democrats, but we must be realistic - except on the issue of guns, he is far, far too liberal to be remotely electable. Nominating Sanders would virtually ensure a Republican win. Are we so shortsighted that we can't think more than 12 months into the future?
Sanders probably won this debate in the minds of many Democrats, but we must be realistic - except on the issue of guns, he is far, far too liberal to be remotely electable. Nominating Sanders would virtually ensure a Republican win. Are we so shortsighted that we can't think more than 12 months into the future?
3
Hillary, go for it. I support you and we need all your energy to defeat whoever is the Republican candidate in 2016.
7
All the talk about Biden was from political pundits, like the ones your paper employs, who need something to write about. I never heard anyone that I talk to wishing that Biden would jump into the race.
2
I have known Joe Biden for years- I have heard him give his usual laundry list speeches at Democratic gatherings. Sure he can be a candidate but the first debate already took place and he is on the side lines. What makes you think he has a better chance than Al Gore, the other VP to run recently- sure Gore won but it was an up hill battle. If you think Biden is a good candidate tell me why- and it can't just be "anyone but Hillary."
In 40 years of reading the Times, I thought the post-debate coverage was the least analytical, most-biased reporting I have seen in its pages. Read the results of every poll and focus group and see the vast different between the average voter who watched the debate and the New York-centric pundit class. Why does the Times want Hillary to win so badly that it has thrown its journalistic integrity under the bus?
7
That the paper would use "Biden Movement" in the headline of this article is ridiculous. Bernie Sanders must really have you scared.
4
Perhaps there was a bit more substance than the 1st GOP debate, however the format and lines of questioning were not the same....But the debate last night any 10th graders would have given Hillary more of a challenge than Uncle Bernie and the other guys....
1
This article and the entire "Hillary the victor" position of the NY Times reads like the same propaganda used by this newspapers when it tries to hype real estate in NYC (whether it is the South Bronx or some obscure areas in Queens). Journalism by commission.
5
Sadly the only democrat candidate that made any sense was Jim Webb. With the radical craziness the democrat party has become Mr. Webb has no chance.
1
What's Up NYT?? You can't even wait to get an official decision from JB and he's already being dismissed? No Hillary bias here, right!
3
Hillary Clinton did nothing but lie. Her lies are know and well documented. You don't think a Republican will give her a pass like Sanders did, do you? But then again after 8 years of Obama maybe being a habitual liar is not as much as a handicap as it once was.
2
Just remember that unless you want the country ravaged by the Tea Party, you'd better get out there and vote for the most electable Denocrat.
8
This piece is a good example of journalists creating a reality instead of describing it and makes the Times seem like the Fox News of the left. Is it really possible that the Times could take the temperature of the entire "Biden movement" in less than 24 hours? The headline should be "A few experts that we interviewed believe Hillary's performance may give Biden pause." Or maybe it should have been, "This Article Chills Biden Movement".
3
The New York Times front page and home page articles that made assertive declarations about Hillary’s debate triumph was shocking. I like Hillary Clinton. But the impressions of a couple of reporters, who like all of us have biases, should not be the basis for your coverage. The reporting on the debate was not substantive or fact based, but instead was hazy and vague. By the way all the post-debate polls I saw, many of which have their own problems with methodology, all suggested Sanders won the debate hands down. This coverage was not one of The Times finest moments.
8
Biden's TV ads certainly seem to suggest he's running. They're brilliant ads. If he keeps Don Draper on his payroll, who knows what they can accomplish together?
HRC is Ms. Clinton, not Mr. Clinton! The NYT editor needs to spellcheck!
I hope HRC resolves that entire issue & drops the name "Clinton" at the very moment she is elected as the first female President of the United States.
She does not, and never did need he husband's surname. It is time she is recognized for whom she is: Hilary Rodham, the next Presidentnof these United States.
President Rodham, that sounds perfect!
I hope HRC resolves that entire issue & drops the name "Clinton" at the very moment she is elected as the first female President of the United States.
She does not, and never did need he husband's surname. It is time she is recognized for whom she is: Hilary Rodham, the next Presidentnof these United States.
President Rodham, that sounds perfect!
4
Er....that would actualy be Mrs. Clinton, not Ms.
Are there writers at The Times that care to portray the realities of this debate? Hillary Clinton did well in this debate. So did Martin O'Malley. Bernie Sanders won this debate.
He won by showing just how different he is- not just from Hillary Clinton, but from all of the presidential candidates. He deftly avoided lofting sucker-punches at Hillary about her e-mail account choice for the sake of scoring political points, and he made his case for the issues he finds to be most important without simultaneously demonizing Hillary for taking a more mainstream approach (e.g. on campaign financing). He's passionate about issues that will come to the fore in this election: income inequality, wall-street reform, voter turnout, campaign financing reform- all things that seem to stem from the single principle that in America, money rules. Politicians can be bought, the public can be swayed, and those that can't will be redistricted where they won't matter. The presidential election seems to be harder to buy, but it's clearly achievable at the congressional level. Bernie Sanders wants to re-write the script.
Hillary seems to want to take the path more traveled on these issues. As a progressive who "knows how to get things done," she'll stand close to the pack, and trade punches. She might make some progress that way, but her modus operandi leaves something to be desired.
He won by showing just how different he is- not just from Hillary Clinton, but from all of the presidential candidates. He deftly avoided lofting sucker-punches at Hillary about her e-mail account choice for the sake of scoring political points, and he made his case for the issues he finds to be most important without simultaneously demonizing Hillary for taking a more mainstream approach (e.g. on campaign financing). He's passionate about issues that will come to the fore in this election: income inequality, wall-street reform, voter turnout, campaign financing reform- all things that seem to stem from the single principle that in America, money rules. Politicians can be bought, the public can be swayed, and those that can't will be redistricted where they won't matter. The presidential election seems to be harder to buy, but it's clearly achievable at the congressional level. Bernie Sanders wants to re-write the script.
Hillary seems to want to take the path more traveled on these issues. As a progressive who "knows how to get things done," she'll stand close to the pack, and trade punches. She might make some progress that way, but her modus operandi leaves something to be desired.
5
If you ask me who has won the Republican debates thus far, IMO Donald Trump by a mile. He's confident, commanding, takes on all comers, talks about all his plans, is reassuring. He's won them all easily so far. Ask anyone.
He's also unfit to be president. Why the NYT is covering last nights' debate like the cable news industry - "Who Won the Debate?" instead of focusing on the issues - is a mystery to many. The NYT has never, to my knowledge, said one positive thing about Bernie Sanders candidacy.
Why not? What are you afraid of?
He's also unfit to be president. Why the NYT is covering last nights' debate like the cable news industry - "Who Won the Debate?" instead of focusing on the issues - is a mystery to many. The NYT has never, to my knowledge, said one positive thing about Bernie Sanders candidacy.
Why not? What are you afraid of?
6
Clinton criminal defense not likely to be cogent : http://www.nationalreview.com/article/423340/clinton-e-mail-scandal-a-la...
The whole Democratic field is staged. Provide a candidate on the far left to make Hillary look centrist. Never challenge Hillary on her past leadership where one could make real political gains. It's a joke and theater. No substance all sophistry. Do you really want these people in power again?
2
Bernie Sanders really does have the right ideals to progress the USA into the future but he comes across as too much of an angry old man, too leftist for a chance with republicans and even some democrats. Clinton's performance and vigor surprised and impressed me and I think she is the more appealing candidate for many voters, and will have a better chance with a republican congress. The US really needs a kick in the butt regarding their quaint obsession with firearms and inequitable distribution of income, but it will need to be a slow kick.
6
" I was the official responsible " vs " I had nothing to do with it " Pick yer hilrey!
1
This whole Biden thing was a NY Times fantasy. Nobody I've ever talked to or about Politics ever mentioned Biden, except that he's a sold out old hack who works for the Banks and is a mindless supporter of Israel.
Now you think Clinton is back because she memorized her lines well and sounded good to her fellow New York City Millionaires and didn't have to answer any questions about the Clinton Foundation.
Nether Clinton or Sanders explained how they are going to do these great things they propose with a Republican Congress.
Now you think Clinton is back because she memorized her lines well and sounded good to her fellow New York City Millionaires and didn't have to answer any questions about the Clinton Foundation.
Nether Clinton or Sanders explained how they are going to do these great things they propose with a Republican Congress.
1
People should stop with the Clinton / Sanders ticket dream ... That is not going to happen .. Or Sanders / Clinton ... If Hillary is the nominee she will have to pick someone like Jim Webb. Which I think is a good choice. He is from Virginia and has a military background. Although she seemed to warm up to Martin O' Malley, and that might look like a good ticket. But she most likely will have to pick a Southerner or someone from a western state like Wyoming or Colorado .... Logistics .... Hopefully someone she likes and trusts.
1
Why is Clinton even talking? Follow Obama out of DC and save the worldsome oxygen by zipping it until then. I could care less if we have a Dem or Rep, as long as it isnt that 2 faced liar. Yet another person who is all talk and out for no one but themself. Now go cough up some more emails.
2
I'm glad it's not just me. Clinton strikes me as insincerity personified. Not sure how anyone still believes a single thing she says.
1
NYT wants Hilary. Bernie is too liberal, not enough of a hawk, and wants to go after the ultra-rich and the bankers. WaPo and NYT will say Hillary won no matter what the truth is, which is that Bernie won. Remember who owns the largest piece of the NYT, multi-billionaire Carlos Slim.
8
Sanders is right on most policy, but Clinton is the bulldozer the party needs. Time for republicans to face the candidate they have been persecuting for years. She has been preparing for this for a long time. Good luck, boys, you're gonna need it.
8
Still have yet to discover what endearing qualities Hillary possesses that will get Independents to vote for her.
And I suspect her ultimate opponent won't pull any punches like her fellow Democrats did last night. And then there's the FBI and the issue of classified docs in her possession, etc.
In other words, she's not a lock for anything even with an alleged electoral college advantage.
And I suspect her ultimate opponent won't pull any punches like her fellow Democrats did last night. And then there's the FBI and the issue of classified docs in her possession, etc.
In other words, she's not a lock for anything even with an alleged electoral college advantage.
3
The Democratic Debate signed and sealed Hillary Clinton as THE Democratic Candidate. Bernie Sanders was all heart even defending Hillary about the e-mail non-issue. Rare to come by such honesty and graciousness in Politics these days especially after the mean-spirited, cluster bombing Republican Debate. There is still hope, after all.
9
I like Sanders but he will not be able to withstand the gazillions the GOP will throw at him. Hillary can and it is time for our own Iron Lady.
11
Hillary sent a clear message to the banks and Wall St. that they are untouchable with her as President. That to me is obvious and dangerous.
8
As a left-leaning independent who has been undecided in a swing state, Hillary won me over last night. It will take a highly intelligent, all-rounded candidate with a steady hand to deal with what the GOP is going to throw at the country. I like Bernie, and frankly likes his idea, but he is one-issue candidate, and his positions will create too many targets for the GOP to attack in the general election. So, Go Hillary!
14
You are wrong on this one.
1
Bernie is so succinct: "Congress doesn't regulate Wall Street; Wall Street regulates Congress." Who would know better than Hillary and her former college Sen. Wall Street Schumer. With the TPP the story board for the next crash only awaits the final script. Who can we trust? Hillary take the money, Bernie doesn't.
13
I love Hillary, and I was ticked off at Ted Kennedy for endorsing the then-very green Obama. I was for her then and am now. But, oh my, you have to love, admire, embrace Sanders -- for his heavy NY accent, his bluntness and plain-spokenness and his grace -- I'm so impressed with his shutdown of the whole email thing. Takes an extraordinary politician to do what Sanders did. While I'm still for Hillary, Bernie Sanders as the nominee wouldn't disappoint me.
7
Kind of Mr. Martin to explain what happened for us two year olds.
1
I think you need to actually be stupid to support Hillary.
If the lying and flip flopping and carpet bagging and arrogance doesn't convince you - how about the lack of ideas?
This country needs a second declaration of Independence - this time from Israel and its Lobby.
Perhaps Ironically, the only candidate in the race who will not put Israel's interests first is the one Jewish fella in the race.
He's cranky, and the weirdness of Vermont has clearly seeped into his bones - but the guy is consistent, honest, and will frustrate a GOP-and Likud-dominated Congress.
Sanders is by far the least worst option. That so many people can support Hillary may represent the last election dominated by legacy media.
In other words - most people 35 or so and under know that Israeli violence against Palestinians just isnt covered. We know Netanyahu has cried wolf omn nukes for 20+ years while building more of his own and ignoring multiple UN security council resolutions.
And we know Nader and Paul and others didn't get a fair shake from the Establishment legacy media.
Supporters of Clinton remind me of one of Churchill's quips:
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
By and large, people voting for Hillary rely on few news sources, don't understand even basic economics, and think that wedge issues are more important right now than a runaway CIA and Military Industrial Complex eating up 50% of our tax revenues, spreading death.
If the lying and flip flopping and carpet bagging and arrogance doesn't convince you - how about the lack of ideas?
This country needs a second declaration of Independence - this time from Israel and its Lobby.
Perhaps Ironically, the only candidate in the race who will not put Israel's interests first is the one Jewish fella in the race.
He's cranky, and the weirdness of Vermont has clearly seeped into his bones - but the guy is consistent, honest, and will frustrate a GOP-and Likud-dominated Congress.
Sanders is by far the least worst option. That so many people can support Hillary may represent the last election dominated by legacy media.
In other words - most people 35 or so and under know that Israeli violence against Palestinians just isnt covered. We know Netanyahu has cried wolf omn nukes for 20+ years while building more of his own and ignoring multiple UN security council resolutions.
And we know Nader and Paul and others didn't get a fair shake from the Establishment legacy media.
Supporters of Clinton remind me of one of Churchill's quips:
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
By and large, people voting for Hillary rely on few news sources, don't understand even basic economics, and think that wedge issues are more important right now than a runaway CIA and Military Industrial Complex eating up 50% of our tax revenues, spreading death.
10
First, the majority of viewers declared Bernie the victor per all the polls - contrary to NYT and other media reporting. Major media is NOT interested in approaching this race as a serious policy conversation, especially given Bernie's clear and forthright opposition to the oligarchy of Wall Street, Big Media, Big Campaign Money, and the Military-industrial complex. Hence the near-total freeze out of Bernie and non-reporting or mis-reporting of his growing lead everywhere.
Second, Hillary is still the candidate of Wall Street and the MIC. She opposes reinstatement of Glass-Seagal, she supported escalation in the Middle East throughout the Obama period (in addition to the utterly inexcusable Iraq vote), and she has (historically) supported "free trade" agreements like NAFTA that have created a race to the bottom in global labor standards & pay. If the Republicans were sane, they would draft her, and we would then have the two-party system back in working order.
Second, Hillary is still the candidate of Wall Street and the MIC. She opposes reinstatement of Glass-Seagal, she supported escalation in the Middle East throughout the Obama period (in addition to the utterly inexcusable Iraq vote), and she has (historically) supported "free trade" agreements like NAFTA that have created a race to the bottom in global labor standards & pay. If the Republicans were sane, they would draft her, and we would then have the two-party system back in working order.
7
Hillary Clinton has forgotten how to tell the truth - post-debate giddiness aside.
7
I'm still a doubter. Hillary's position goes the way the wind blows, and it seems like the people are finally fed up. Bernie handily won the debate. What's hilarious is that he is going through exactly what happened to Donald Trump. Everyone said it was impossible for him to lead, and yet he did. Now, we have the pundits claiming that Hillary won the debate, but I check about 10 online polls from the various news organization, and Bernie won all by huge double digits. Hillary on the other hand, tried really hard to not sound as brusque, annoying, and bossy as usual, but I'm not buying it. She changed her mind on important things in the last 6 months, and she'll do it again and again.
9
I don't see it happening, but Biden MIGHT be a strong-enough member of the cool insiders club to recall the 1960's Democrats who were anti-communist, religious, and (are you sitting down?) actually loved the United States.
Were he to come out boldly for Truman's idea of cutting spending, Kennedy's tax cuts, and calling for a strong protection of individual religious liberty - probably involving constitutional amendment - he might very well win an election.
Judging from the angry crew that attended the last Democratic Convention and banned the mention of God from their platform, however, I don't see that person nominated by anyone but the GOP.
It was worth a thought. But I still say he'd be a grandad who didn't have the heart to say hard words in debate, like Romney who probably lost the race in the debates with Obama and liberal party guards acting as moderators. No more Candy Crowley, please.
Were he to come out boldly for Truman's idea of cutting spending, Kennedy's tax cuts, and calling for a strong protection of individual religious liberty - probably involving constitutional amendment - he might very well win an election.
Judging from the angry crew that attended the last Democratic Convention and banned the mention of God from their platform, however, I don't see that person nominated by anyone but the GOP.
It was worth a thought. But I still say he'd be a grandad who didn't have the heart to say hard words in debate, like Romney who probably lost the race in the debates with Obama and liberal party guards acting as moderators. No more Candy Crowley, please.
It's your GOP that is the butt of jokes here and around the world. The GOP has no one else to blame but themselves for the utter mess and disarray they find themselves in. I'd direct you to do all you can to help your party out. As partisan as I might be I recognize that we as a country are not all pulling in one direction. Which would be nice once in a while.
1
The biggest drawback for HRC is that she is a Clinton, which is almost as bad as being a Bush, but as the members of the other patriarchal democratic family, the Kennedy's, she has had the intention to run for the presidency for the last 16 years, perhaps even more. She will run all the way this time.
The Democratic Party has made it clear that you'd better not cross Hillary. So nobody did. She got no challenges from the other candidates and fielded nothing but Anderson Cooper's slow lobs over the plate.
In the assets column for her campaign, she's going to be able to clinch the nomination without expending much of the war chest to do it.
In the liabilities column, her Republican challenger -- unless it's a complete Bozo like Trump -- will have been toughened up by having to scrap his or her way to the top.
So she'd better hope her money holds out and that nobody hands down an indictment.
In the assets column for her campaign, she's going to be able to clinch the nomination without expending much of the war chest to do it.
In the liabilities column, her Republican challenger -- unless it's a complete Bozo like Trump -- will have been toughened up by having to scrap his or her way to the top.
So she'd better hope her money holds out and that nobody hands down an indictment.
2
Anderson Cooper was a terrible choice, as evidenced by how he unfairly "moderated" airtime, leaving Jim Webb and Lincoln Chafee and their respective supporters and potential supporters frustrated. He also seemed supremely cranky. And his admonishment of Webb was a spectacular show of childish arrogance toward a soldier of all people.
But despite his and CNN's insistence on turning democracy into a Nintendo game (on its site, there's a button where one can "click to play" a game of odds), a lot of important messages got through. As Gov. O'Malley eloquently said, the candidates showed respect to each other, the public and democracy.
Last night I saw why Hillary has been calm in the media storms created by the media themselves. The 3 am call came a long time ago, sometime in 2007, when a junior senator with a well-organized campaign shot past her with the aid of a press that fell in love with itself for falling in love with President Obama and thinking somehow we would enter a new "post-racial" age.
Hillary's calm and confident because she is ready. She is at home in the nuances and complexities of politics. She knows how to get Congress moving. More than 70 of her bills became law to Sanders's 3 in the same amount of time.
I'm thrilled Sanders is in the Senate, and running for president.
But my vote is for the brilliant and compassionate woman who decided to run again. We are lucky.
But despite his and CNN's insistence on turning democracy into a Nintendo game (on its site, there's a button where one can "click to play" a game of odds), a lot of important messages got through. As Gov. O'Malley eloquently said, the candidates showed respect to each other, the public and democracy.
Last night I saw why Hillary has been calm in the media storms created by the media themselves. The 3 am call came a long time ago, sometime in 2007, when a junior senator with a well-organized campaign shot past her with the aid of a press that fell in love with itself for falling in love with President Obama and thinking somehow we would enter a new "post-racial" age.
Hillary's calm and confident because she is ready. She is at home in the nuances and complexities of politics. She knows how to get Congress moving. More than 70 of her bills became law to Sanders's 3 in the same amount of time.
I'm thrilled Sanders is in the Senate, and running for president.
But my vote is for the brilliant and compassionate woman who decided to run again. We are lucky.
10
Anderson Cooper is not a real journalist.
Great politician doesnt make her a great president. Two way different things. Putin or others will walk over her faster than our current token president.
You couldn't be farther from truth in misplacing your adulation
1
Hillary did a great job last night, but I was proud of all the Democratic candidates. They conducted a superb debate sticking to issues, disagreeing on some points without rancor. It was so refreshing to see adults on the political stage for once. Hillary distinguished herself by being informed, factual and at the same time relaxed. She was genuinely someone I would like to have a beer with. Her character on Saturday Night Live really may be close to home. Good job for her, but really good job for the whole roster!
9
No dynasties. Vote for somebody who's not a Clinton. Or a Bush.
8
No dynasties! No Roosevelts! Oh wait, we wouldn't have had FDR with that kind of thinking...
How about voting for the most qualified candidate regardless of last name?
How about voting for the most qualified candidate regardless of last name?
She did fine in the debate. But: no real plan to make college more affordable, no real plan to reign in Wall Street, didn't endorse Medicare for all or universal health care (we probably didn't get health care in 1994 because she loused up her assignment to formulate that but created a plan that went nowhere because of her secrecy, audacity and not seeking outside input - and millions of us spent another 20 years uninsured).
It's not enough she's a woman. I'm a feminist but its not enough by itself. She has loads of experience but a lots of it is bad - Iraq War vote. Bill Clinton ended welfare, signed a punitive industry-created bankruptcy bill making student loans nondischargeable (she's never addressed this), failed to take out Bin Laden while sandbagged with self-created legal problems, supported legislation that caused mass incarceration of black people, didn't intervene in the Rwandan genocide. Bill Clinton's a political genius but he wasn't a great president by a long shot.
Hillary's smart and experienced but that won't necessarily make her a great president either. The Clintons have spent his entire post-presidency socializing and taking huge speaking fees and campaign contributions from Wall Street. The idea that Hillary will do anything to reign in the financial industry that's made her and Bill multimillionaires is a joke. And her ongoing hawkishness inspires no confidence.
She's the wrong candidate at the wrong time.
Sanders is made for these times.
It's not enough she's a woman. I'm a feminist but its not enough by itself. She has loads of experience but a lots of it is bad - Iraq War vote. Bill Clinton ended welfare, signed a punitive industry-created bankruptcy bill making student loans nondischargeable (she's never addressed this), failed to take out Bin Laden while sandbagged with self-created legal problems, supported legislation that caused mass incarceration of black people, didn't intervene in the Rwandan genocide. Bill Clinton's a political genius but he wasn't a great president by a long shot.
Hillary's smart and experienced but that won't necessarily make her a great president either. The Clintons have spent his entire post-presidency socializing and taking huge speaking fees and campaign contributions from Wall Street. The idea that Hillary will do anything to reign in the financial industry that's made her and Bill multimillionaires is a joke. And her ongoing hawkishness inspires no confidence.
She's the wrong candidate at the wrong time.
Sanders is made for these times.
13
Nice to see a calm, reasonable Democratic woman after all those shrill, hysterical Republican men.
4
There's and old saying, the first part being 'you can fool some of the people all of the time'. Hillary Clinton managed to do that. This is only the beginning.
7
Methinks the New York Times might be protesting too much on Hillary's behalf! Why the need for three editorials and a couple of articles touting how great she was? It's a bit over the top, n'est-ce pas? I guess it's the usual media strategy to manufacture consent, in this case to anoint "queen Hillary" without question, but I think the Times is going at it a bit too zealously.
8
By observing the occurrences in the USA and its outreach on the affairs in the middle east, uncertainty in Global economic volatility,
experiencing the impact by the faux paw of Bush era , certainly to
continue the credentials of Mr. Obama, my choice for the US President is Ms. Hilary Clinton. No doubt, she is the best bet to fight global terrorism. E-mail off -track is nothing but an error and over sight in the hectic activity. Ms. Hillary as the US President and Ms. Merkel again to the office of the chancellor in Germany and the good cooperation between these two women leaders would open new constructive pathways in Europe, NATO's relationship with Russia , peace in middle east and above all to dismantle the terror factories receiving aid in the name of combating terrorism . The missing question to all the "president hopefuls ' in yesterdays debate is "their contour to control global terrorism".
experiencing the impact by the faux paw of Bush era , certainly to
continue the credentials of Mr. Obama, my choice for the US President is Ms. Hilary Clinton. No doubt, she is the best bet to fight global terrorism. E-mail off -track is nothing but an error and over sight in the hectic activity. Ms. Hillary as the US President and Ms. Merkel again to the office of the chancellor in Germany and the good cooperation between these two women leaders would open new constructive pathways in Europe, NATO's relationship with Russia , peace in middle east and above all to dismantle the terror factories receiving aid in the name of combating terrorism . The missing question to all the "president hopefuls ' in yesterdays debate is "their contour to control global terrorism".
2
Jim Webb could do the job, but as he said," it takes money " to be able to convince the voters on who to vote for in the upcoming election. The rest of the field is to controlled by flawed ideology's that have already failed in the world's past history.
As a long-time reader of The New York Times and as a Clinton supporter, I must say that I think this newspaper's coverage of the campaign is unfairly biased in favor of Clinton, with far too little coverage being given to Sander, O'Malley and the other candidates, and with this paper and certain of its reporters too complimentary of her and too dismissive of her opponents.
6
I totally agree with you. I am ever more disappointed in our media for its maddeningly small-minded focus. The New York Times used to be satisfying brain food, now it promotes only a twinkie binge lethargy. Where is the discussion of the policy positions? For example, why did Bernie score a 77% to Hillary's 16% in the post-debate Facebook poll?
1
Amskeptic, You need to examine the demographics of Facebook users against the demographics of Bernie fans, before using those stats as a reliable judgment.
Trump, Hillary or Sanders will probably narrow the race down to the next potus.
The American voters must decide in which direction they want their country's destiny to go. Blacks and hispanics will likely vote democrat again just to spite the more conservative republican policies. It will be a close race that will narrow if a surge in white voters occur ! If Hillary wins expect the same old democratic paths of the previous administration on a whole, Sanders would push more social justice and equality for the masses whereas Trump would absolutely CHANGE America in many ways despite his critics and distractors, he would do his utmost to put the US 1st and make it his ideas of great again!
The American voters must decide in which direction they want their country's destiny to go. Blacks and hispanics will likely vote democrat again just to spite the more conservative republican policies. It will be a close race that will narrow if a surge in white voters occur ! If Hillary wins expect the same old democratic paths of the previous administration on a whole, Sanders would push more social justice and equality for the masses whereas Trump would absolutely CHANGE America in many ways despite his critics and distractors, he would do his utmost to put the US 1st and make it his ideas of great again!
"Blacks and hispanics will likely vote democrat again just to spite the more conservative republican policies." Oh r.e.a.l.l.y ???? You can speak for two large constituencies with such a trite and simplistic assumption? As Hillary Clinton put it last night, no.
1
So now Hillary gets to declare victory over her weak group of opponents and over Biden who was mostly a prop in a bit of Democratic Party Machine political theater. Who cares that she flip-flopped on may major issues in order to be able to avoid controversy at the debate. Who cares that she's dogged by repeated scandals, who cares that foreign affairs of the country were much worse after her term as Secretary of State?
3
As with the Republicans, these debates are just part of the pre-game show. It is interesting to watch, but is not the real game, which comes later. However, the difference is that the Republican debate was like watching an episode of Survivor, while the Democratic debate was like a golf game. As for Biden, he is like a back-up pitcher, ready to come in if the star pitcher has a bad day.
2
Why isn't Bernie on your cover? Hillary is the "safe choice" if what we mean by safe is more of the same gridlocked, ineffective governing that we've had with Obama and the rest of the political elite on both sides of the aisle. She will pickup the mantle instead of smashing it to bits. Bernie will champion the desperately needed changes we need, and give the government back to the people of this country.
6
My oldest grandaughter when she was about 3, always used to beat up on grandpa because it was fun. One day I told her to stop wrestling with him because she could get hurt. She said no way because she was tough. My husband asked her how tough she was, and she said "tough enough." That's Hillary. She's tough enough and smart enough and experienced enough. She is going to make a wonderful President. You can't buy what she's got.
6
You are not that smart enough to see through a corrupt politician like the Clintons. I bet you've learned little about their so-called The Clintons Foundation. Her family is so closed tie with Wall Street and big corps, how could one trust her? She is a Republican, if you like the other Republican candidates out there, HL is your choice. Read their past records not the performance of two hours last night.
1
Val in Brooklyn, NY.
Where's the dilemma if Biden's not running, no matter how much anyone--especially the NYT-- wants him to?
I'll say this, Sanders's p.o.v. on guns isn't a plus; but then, neither was HRC's vote for the Iraq debacle. Ah yes, HRC of the "All lives matter" retort. Her description or opinion of Obama as a "great moral leader" on racial issues is meaningless to me. As a Black woman, not only can I judge his leadership for myself, but frankly, I feel that I'm in a better position and have more of a right to do so, than she.
NYT, Try this: until or unless, Biden declares himself, why not just leave it and him alone? And while you're at it, remind Mr. Podesta that while last night's debate was a balm after the Repub fiascos, there are still 5 debates left. Aren't there? "She just hit it out of the park"? Don't get ahead of yourselves.
Submitted: 10-14-15, 6:41 p.m. EST
Where's the dilemma if Biden's not running, no matter how much anyone--especially the NYT-- wants him to?
I'll say this, Sanders's p.o.v. on guns isn't a plus; but then, neither was HRC's vote for the Iraq debacle. Ah yes, HRC of the "All lives matter" retort. Her description or opinion of Obama as a "great moral leader" on racial issues is meaningless to me. As a Black woman, not only can I judge his leadership for myself, but frankly, I feel that I'm in a better position and have more of a right to do so, than she.
NYT, Try this: until or unless, Biden declares himself, why not just leave it and him alone? And while you're at it, remind Mr. Podesta that while last night's debate was a balm after the Repub fiascos, there are still 5 debates left. Aren't there? "She just hit it out of the park"? Don't get ahead of yourselves.
Submitted: 10-14-15, 6:41 p.m. EST
6
Mrs. Clinton did what she does very well. She spoke of herself as a progressive, while adding insinuations that she is the only one who gets things done. What things has or does she get done is the quandary. She spoke of gun control, attempting to ruffle Senator Sanders, but I heard her prior speech on the topic, wherein her closing argument attempted to lay blame on "responsible gun owners and hunters," saying she wished they would form their "own group," to weed out the, "extremists." What ? And then there is Iraq, and whether some wish to move away from that topic or not, her response continues to be, basically, oops. Clinton can hardly contain her war aggressive personality and corporate rightward leanings when she attempts to speak as a, progressive," so she attempts nuanced qualifiers as tunnels of escape when later, as president, she impulsively attempts to engage in yet another military industrial machine boosting war," and there are plenty of possibilities for her to irresponsibly choose from. No thanks to Mrs. Clinton's double speak, qualifier agenda. Senator Sanders, you are the honest candidate who speaks clearly on policy, and by golly, you don't resent learning from other countries about ways in which we may improve our own America, I respect that, sir. You have retained my vote and contributions with your forthright policy presentation during this first democratic debate.
5
Love to see Hillary become the Democrat Nominee. She has too much excess baggage to ever win over anyone except hardcore Democrats
1
Funny that all that excess baggage was put there by the republican machine
1
Bernie is scheduled to be in Iowa this weekend and I have signed up to see him, however, when I asked my daughter about the whereabouts of his visit (she is familiar with the town) she claimed that they had had a gun threat today and all of the schools were locked down. Now, I'm a little worried about going?
1
And there you go. Who was strongest on gun safety last night???
1
Calling Clinton the winner seemed more of a drama criticism than a reflection of popular opinion. She did well, but Sanders' message resonated, as several post-debate surveys showed. We count on you to give an accurate account. Please act accordingly. Clinton can't hold a grudge if you tell the truth.
2
Val in Brooklyn, NY.
I forgot to ask, please define "brand of mainstream liberalism." Is she a box of cereal or something? And mainstream? She's not a Special Ed child student, is she? Sorry, I don't understand these terms or jargon. Please speak English.
Also, HRC describes herself as progressive? While she's not completely nuts, as another female candidate I won't name, she's not what I'd call progressive.
And, is the NYT characterizing her as center-left? How do HRC's managers feel about that? Center-left and progressive are two very different things. In the context of today's political climate, Sanders is progressive--not HRC; prior to this he'd have been thought just liberal.
Center-left Dem is a euphemism for lesser of evils. When I think of a true Dem (almost extinct), I think of progressive(s). Unless, as someone said elsewhere, we just toss out the current labels and id's and find fresh ones.
I want a true, undiluted full left progressive Dem, whatever you call it. Anything less is not just a compromise, but anathema and fatal.
Submitted: 10-14-15, 7:35 p.m. EST
I forgot to ask, please define "brand of mainstream liberalism." Is she a box of cereal or something? And mainstream? She's not a Special Ed child student, is she? Sorry, I don't understand these terms or jargon. Please speak English.
Also, HRC describes herself as progressive? While she's not completely nuts, as another female candidate I won't name, she's not what I'd call progressive.
And, is the NYT characterizing her as center-left? How do HRC's managers feel about that? Center-left and progressive are two very different things. In the context of today's political climate, Sanders is progressive--not HRC; prior to this he'd have been thought just liberal.
Center-left Dem is a euphemism for lesser of evils. When I think of a true Dem (almost extinct), I think of progressive(s). Unless, as someone said elsewhere, we just toss out the current labels and id's and find fresh ones.
I want a true, undiluted full left progressive Dem, whatever you call it. Anything less is not just a compromise, but anathema and fatal.
Submitted: 10-14-15, 7:35 p.m. EST
4
Who won? The Democratic Party. There were no clowns on the stage last night, and the Democrats won on the whole over the Republicans - clearly.
As for Biden, perhaps he feels a sense of relief. Face it, if Joe Biden really wanted to be president with all his heart, he would have started his campaign already. It could have been interesting to see him run, but it seems Joe Biden just needs a break from it all. And that is ok.
As for Biden, perhaps he feels a sense of relief. Face it, if Joe Biden really wanted to be president with all his heart, he would have started his campaign already. It could have been interesting to see him run, but it seems Joe Biden just needs a break from it all. And that is ok.
5
I for one, hope we have seen the last from Webb.
He is a quitter.
After winning a hard battle for Senator from VA, he threw it away by refusing to run for re-election 6 years later. where he easily would have won a second term.
Almost handing it back to the Repugs.
Good riddance.
He is a quitter.
After winning a hard battle for Senator from VA, he threw it away by refusing to run for re-election 6 years later. where he easily would have won a second term.
Almost handing it back to the Repugs.
Good riddance.
2
I can't believe how the pundocracy are trying to spin this thing for HRC. The polls will show a Bernie bounce. NY Times coverage has been disappointing. The media, it seems, is a major part of the problem, every bit as culpable as the corrupt politicians and corporate thieves.
5
That Hillary is a trained and experienced attorney whose smooth talk has been polished by years of practice could explain why listeners are on guard and feeling conned.
Bernie Sanders exudes honesty, clarity, and conviction because these qualities actually come from within him. He inspires our trust.
Bernie Sanders exudes honesty, clarity, and conviction because these qualities actually come from within him. He inspires our trust.
8
Well, Clinton sure showed everyone that she doesn't take a backseat to anyone in going over her allocated time in the debate. It seemed as if she had to overcompensate a bit due to the threat from Bernie Sanders.
Sanders could have, and should have, been more assertive but he stuck to his core values. Factor in that Bernie is the only politician present to spurn super PAC funding and rich donors, he becomes the most trustworthy candidate. Especially considering that Hillary will say anything to win.
Sanders could have, and should have, been more assertive but he stuck to his core values. Factor in that Bernie is the only politician present to spurn super PAC funding and rich donors, he becomes the most trustworthy candidate. Especially considering that Hillary will say anything to win.
8
The pundits are criticizing Sanders because he did not go after Hillary on the e-mail scandal, but he really does not have to. Both the MSM and right wing media are going after her relentlessly. There cannot be any voters who are paying attention at this point who do not know about the e-mail scandal. And if they are not paying attention, they certainly did not watch the debate.
Funny watching people discussing ways to expand government endlessnessly without any concerns for how it gets paid. Of course Sanders will want to confiscate wealth but even that does not begin to pay a fraction of the amounts he wants to spend. Anyone can stand there and promise endless amounts of free stuff and win an election. Seriously, how do these programs get paid? Certainly not by taxation. What was the Democrats' plan for growing the economy? Nothing that I heard. What's their plan for the collapsing foreign policy of this clueless administration? It's ridiculous. Clinton was the only one that seemed somewhat fiscally reasonable. Webb seemed reasonable on many issues but stands no chance.
3
Excuse my naivete, but: Does anybody care what they said? What they propose to do for the country? Or do we only care who "won?"
6
Hillary made it plain that she is far better prepared to become our next
president than any other candidate, Republican or Democrat.
president than any other candidate, Republican or Democrat.
11
Both Parties in Congress used the terrorist attacks to win new powers over the American people. They passed legislation that enabled military NSA spying on all innocent Americans, and put forth a program of increasing the ranks of America's police "Forces" and arming them with war weapons. At every opportunity, they inched us closer to disarming Americans. Do you understand? If you don't, think harder.
Debates don't matter. The President always becomes a military puppet as they have them in an echo chamber in which they have the President's ear at all times further massaging their ego with the pomp of "Commander in Chief".
The Republicans are the worst as they are all Pentagon puppets, ever since the uncivil war. The Democrats are better but still isolated. Maybe Clinton's closeness to Government is a liability now. Webb is a Pentagon puppet and I seriously question his Republican legacy appearing in a debate among Democrats. O'Malley is a professional police state loving politician promoting himself. Chafee is a really nice guy but would be pummeled by Republicans.
Sanders was the only one who showed a real fire in his belly and love of the people over his own promotion. He is the only one who could change the fascist nature of America. He is the only one I could vote for now.
All others are career politicians. They all side with government power over the people.
Now it looks serious.
Debates don't matter. The President always becomes a military puppet as they have them in an echo chamber in which they have the President's ear at all times further massaging their ego with the pomp of "Commander in Chief".
The Republicans are the worst as they are all Pentagon puppets, ever since the uncivil war. The Democrats are better but still isolated. Maybe Clinton's closeness to Government is a liability now. Webb is a Pentagon puppet and I seriously question his Republican legacy appearing in a debate among Democrats. O'Malley is a professional police state loving politician promoting himself. Chafee is a really nice guy but would be pummeled by Republicans.
Sanders was the only one who showed a real fire in his belly and love of the people over his own promotion. He is the only one who could change the fascist nature of America. He is the only one I could vote for now.
All others are career politicians. They all side with government power over the people.
Now it looks serious.
6
Biden's time has come and gone. If he was serious, he should have joined the campaign months and months ago. It is best that he just go quietly into the night.
5
I thought Hillary won the debate with her skilled answers backed up by her national and international experience and professionalism. She was sharp, tough, funny, informed and can govern. There is no question she can win the national election. I have met Bernie several times in VT and he reminds me of an old VT hippie - a very nice guy - but he could never win a national election. Toward the end of the debate he was cupping his ear and saying he couldn't hear a question. Sure he can go after Wall St. or the banks, but when Hillary came back with "...not just the big banks but the shadow banks..." and so much more she looked and sounded presidential. Hillary 2016!
10
Everyone missed a point of genius by Sanders. If we consider the top two to be Clinton and Sanders, then consider their displayed viewpoints on the most important item of foreign policy now; the Russian incursion into Syria.
While Clinton tried to look strong and willing to project American military power, Sanders rightly said the Russian people themselves would quell the military adventures of their President Putin. It's a waiting game to win. You lose when hasty.
While Clinton tried to look strong and willing to project American military power, Sanders rightly said the Russian people themselves would quell the military adventures of their President Putin. It's a waiting game to win. You lose when hasty.
8
I disagree. Sanders' comment about Putin exposed his naiveté and made him appear completely ignorant of Russia's foreign policy. That comment could have been made by someone in this comments' section. In other words, it was a lay person's opinion and not of someone familiar with Russia.
6
Clinton is not electable. In polarized times, we need polarized leaders. I want someone who is going to lead a militia of pitchforked-carrying uber liberals to take back the other 1% of the country.
4
"let's start with why Russia is in Syria right now. There are three strategic failings that have allowed this to occur. The first was the invasion of Iraq, which destabilized ethnic elements in Iraq and empowered Iran. The second was the Arab Spring, which created huge vacuums in Libya and in Syria that allowed terrorist movements to move in there. And the third was the recent deal allowing Iran to move forward and eventually acquire a nuclear weapon, which sent bad signals, bad body language into the region about whether we are acquiescing in Iran becoming a stronger piece of the formula in that part of the world."
Jim Webb was the only Democratic candidate to address the disastrous performance by the Clinton/Kerry/Obama state department in fostering the "Arab Spring" and now "Iranian Spring" which together engendered the Russian/Iranian invasion of Syria.
Jim Webb was the only Democratic candidate to address the disastrous performance by the Clinton/Kerry/Obama state department in fostering the "Arab Spring" and now "Iranian Spring" which together engendered the Russian/Iranian invasion of Syria.
11
I wonder why there was no mention of the 18 1/2 trillion debt?
6
Because they have no ideas on how to tackle the debt mess the next president will inherit from Obama, and because it interferes with the Dems "vote for me and I'll give you free stuff" mantra
If the performance by any or all of the Democrat candidates for the nomination as the Democratic Party standard bearer in the next election deters Joe Biden form throwing his hat in the ring, the bar is, indeed, very low.
1
The media lauding Hillary for her debate performance is exactly the problem with her; it's a performance. Why can't the media and average voter value integrity and ideas over rhetoric and deflection?
Bernie went up there and reiterated what he's said and believed his entire career, it's too bad people don't vote on the issues because the majority of people agree with him.
Bernie went up there and reiterated what he's said and believed his entire career, it's too bad people don't vote on the issues because the majority of people agree with him.
16
Clinton 'triangulates' perfectly.
While we could do much worse should any of the Republican 1% puppets ever become President, why not aim higher than Clinton?
Bernie.
While we could do much worse should any of the Republican 1% puppets ever become President, why not aim higher than Clinton?
Bernie.
11
If Hillary Clinton won the debate as the New York Times would have us believe, then why do six polls say Bernie Sanders won it? Debate prep that focuses on when to change the subject, when to change her mind again and when to develop amnesia worked just about well enough to make Mrs. Clinton look like the bad actress she's proven time and time again to be. Her accusing Senator Sanders of being on the wrong side of the gun debate while she, herself, is on the wrong side of the tanks/bombs catastrophes that have taken hundreds of thousands of lives is incredible. Moreover, hundreds of millions of people around the world have seen smiling photos of Mrs. Clinton taken in Libya with one Khadafi or another.
15
Media almost unanimous of Clinton win. As an undecided voter, I got very excited about Bernie. 1st time I listened to him at length. Bernie wants to talk about economic issues and how everything i rigged against the common person, I think the media prefers the emails.
16
The idea that Biden would risk a "backlash" from Democrats for running is sheer nonsense. I want the Democrats to put forth their strongest possible candidate. That may -- or may not -- be Joe Biden. But I certainly don't understand how it hurts Democrats to have him as an option. If he runs an honorable campaign (as I expect he would) and ends up losing, so be it -- that will make Hillary's victory all the more meaningful, and won't lessen my respect in the slightest for the VP.
7
There is a real disconnect between what the media is saying and what real people are saying today about who won the Democratic debate.
For the NY Times articles I read today on the debate, the reporters and columnists declare Hillary the winner and dismiss every other contender (Bernie is dismissed with faint praise), while the others have been banished from consideration now and forever more. Amen! The End.
But, read the comments to these articles, and the most "recommended" comments claim Bernie is the real deal and won the debate and is just what this country needs--not Hillary.
I was out and about today and had a conversation with 3 women.
Woman 1 is a moderate, not political, but declared, "I will never vote for that Hillary; you can't trust her; you have no idea what she will do if elected. She has too many negatives."
Woman 2 is a liberal and says the media are nuts declaring Hillary the winner; Bernie is the only one who can save this country from itself. Hillary has so much money from banks and corporations, she will have to answer to them when they call--and they will.
Woman 3 is an Independent and says she might vote for Biden and so might her husband, but she would never vote for Hillary after all she and Bill did to disrespect the presidency and feather their own nest. Can't trust her; corrupt to the core.
Okay, this is only anecdotal, but I did not meet one person today who said they would vote for Hillary.
For the NY Times articles I read today on the debate, the reporters and columnists declare Hillary the winner and dismiss every other contender (Bernie is dismissed with faint praise), while the others have been banished from consideration now and forever more. Amen! The End.
But, read the comments to these articles, and the most "recommended" comments claim Bernie is the real deal and won the debate and is just what this country needs--not Hillary.
I was out and about today and had a conversation with 3 women.
Woman 1 is a moderate, not political, but declared, "I will never vote for that Hillary; you can't trust her; you have no idea what she will do if elected. She has too many negatives."
Woman 2 is a liberal and says the media are nuts declaring Hillary the winner; Bernie is the only one who can save this country from itself. Hillary has so much money from banks and corporations, she will have to answer to them when they call--and they will.
Woman 3 is an Independent and says she might vote for Biden and so might her husband, but she would never vote for Hillary after all she and Bill did to disrespect the presidency and feather their own nest. Can't trust her; corrupt to the core.
Okay, this is only anecdotal, but I did not meet one person today who said they would vote for Hillary.
14
Well let me introduce myself. I will vote for Hillary.
5
If they don't vote for a democratic candidate, they can be sure that the responsibility for another Bush Jr. or worse, should it come to that, will be partly on their own consciences. I can't think they've forgotten already what that may mean, or that we may not recover from another administration of that kind.
1
Considering Clinton is polling in the high 40's nationally, it's statistically impossible that you didn't meet "one person" today who said they would vote for her. Unless you only asked Republicans. Did you actually watch the debate? From your right wing lingo about Clinton being "corrupt to the core" I'm guessing you're a Republican who simply doesn't like Hillary Clinton.
2
My take the debate: What a refreshing change from the GOP "debates" so accurately portrayed by O’Malley as carnivals when he described their Trumped up front runner as a “carnival barker.”
All four of these candidates:
Made me feel hopeful rather than depressed.
Acted like adults rather than 3 year olds in selfish tantrums.
Disagreed with each other gracefully, respecting each other's dignity.
Did not lash out and personally disparage the moderator the way the GOP does.
But more important, they:
Had substance and specifics about everything they talked about.
Made no sweeping assumptions about the religion, ethnicity or birther garbage regarding our present President, who in spite of them is doing great.
All had real plans behind their stated goals and objectives.
They knew their facts, from gun control, to climate change to foreign policy
By their statements they reflected the bed rock reasons for our government to exist and the mandates the Preamble to our Constitution demands of them to work toward if elected.
They may not have consciously focused those founding mandates as written, but by their ideology and where they are coming from they all naturally embraced each of those all important mandates last night.
Meantime, the GOP "Govt. is the Problem " crowd, with their ethnic and religiously limiting blinders, obstinate attitudes about working together and their embrace of trickle down wealth distribution policies are creating a smelly smog of polluted air.
All four of these candidates:
Made me feel hopeful rather than depressed.
Acted like adults rather than 3 year olds in selfish tantrums.
Disagreed with each other gracefully, respecting each other's dignity.
Did not lash out and personally disparage the moderator the way the GOP does.
But more important, they:
Had substance and specifics about everything they talked about.
Made no sweeping assumptions about the religion, ethnicity or birther garbage regarding our present President, who in spite of them is doing great.
All had real plans behind their stated goals and objectives.
They knew their facts, from gun control, to climate change to foreign policy
By their statements they reflected the bed rock reasons for our government to exist and the mandates the Preamble to our Constitution demands of them to work toward if elected.
They may not have consciously focused those founding mandates as written, but by their ideology and where they are coming from they all naturally embraced each of those all important mandates last night.
Meantime, the GOP "Govt. is the Problem " crowd, with their ethnic and religiously limiting blinders, obstinate attitudes about working together and their embrace of trickle down wealth distribution policies are creating a smelly smog of polluted air.
11
Eloquently stated, Bruce! Well done.
1
This debate was a "Hillary win" only to the pundits of the U.S. corporate press. "Hillary" was publicly recognized for her lack of political integrity and her pandering to the current public opinion that is being shaped by the Bernie Sanders campaign. The rest of the democratic hopefuls were relatively unknown before the debate and remained that way afterward.
National polls and other statistical indicators clearly show that Bernie Sanders creamed corporate pawn "Hillary" and left the other contenders looking confused.
The way this national corporate press coverage is going, Bernie Sanders will be President for a month before they are willing to recognize he won the election. NO matter - the stranglehold that international bank and corporations has had on our country is already coming to an end. Want a REAL paradigm shift? Search Youtube for "Benjamin Fulford" the former Forbes Japan desk financial editor.
National polls and other statistical indicators clearly show that Bernie Sanders creamed corporate pawn "Hillary" and left the other contenders looking confused.
The way this national corporate press coverage is going, Bernie Sanders will be President for a month before they are willing to recognize he won the election. NO matter - the stranglehold that international bank and corporations has had on our country is already coming to an end. Want a REAL paradigm shift? Search Youtube for "Benjamin Fulford" the former Forbes Japan desk financial editor.
8
Everyone is saying Hillary won because the media spent the last 3 months talking her down. Hillary went out and proved herself to be the very capable politician she always has been, we just forgot since we haven't seen anything but negative headlines in ages. Hillary had a good debate, she might be as radical and fresh as Bernie Sanders but she knows how to play the game as well as anyone else.
2
From the perspective of someone who still walks the fence-boards, Mrs. Clinton's confidence and poised mobility was beyond impressive. She was clearly more comfortable in that environment than all other candidates.
I was disappointed by Bernie Sanders's reluctance; he seemed almost lost.
As for the rest, I saw what I suspected. Poor Lincoln Chafee.
I was disappointed by Bernie Sanders's reluctance; he seemed almost lost.
As for the rest, I saw what I suspected. Poor Lincoln Chafee.
12
I cringed for Chafee, a seemingly very sincere and likable person. His response about signing the repeal of Glass-Steagal was sad and embarrassing for him.
Horse race, yes, but we don't have to insist on a winner in the debate. I got pretty much what I expected from Sanders and Clinton, the other three underperformed. On to the next one.
3
I rather hope that Hillary and Bernie join forces at some point down the road. Hillary at the top of the ticket, and Bernie as VP. I personally like Bernie quite a bit, I admire his integrity, and find him passionate and authentic, but I also worry about his electability in a national election. Having both on the same ticket would actually play to their respective strengths. Bernie could continue to cajole Hillary further left of her more centrist stance, and perhaps embolden her a bit on the domestic policy front. Plus, he'd be President of the Senate. Bernie's strengths appear to be in the various areas of domestic policy, while Clinton's strengths (relatively speaking) seem to skew more to international policy. She also has the experience to be a better Commander-in-Chief. Hoping that they join forces at some point, it would be a dynamite ticket.
13
Hillary's VP will be someone totally from within the trusted Clinton world, like Terry Mccauliffe
1
I think he would bristle to be her v.p.
1
If Wall Street friend Clintin is the next President, we'll need Bernie, Elizabeth Warren and Russ Feingold in the Senate more than ever!
Left wing media is all giddy and stumbling and fumbling over each other. Still a long road ahead. Yes, Hillary is an awesome politicak hack and knows the game. However she is carrying to much baggage. I am willing to bet that her "enemies" will spring the October surprise (as they say) right before the November Prez elections. She talks the the talk but will never walk the walk. Just like most of Washington DC. She is an arrogant elitist living in a bubble. Obama is the master of promise and never doing anything. Typical liberals. I think it will be the election of outsiders and time to flush the clogged toilet call Washington DC.
2
Clogged toilet called Washington DC? Sounds like the Pigs on the farm are complaining it stinks there. Want to know why it stinks there?
For non-cable subscribers, there's been limited access to viewing the actual debate. Apparently I could have live-streamed it live *if* I'd known about the live stream and not experienced endless crashing and freezing, as many others have reported. Now that it's over, I cannot find the full debate video anywhere. I can, however, find endless analysis of who won, clips of sound-bites carefully selected by media outlets, and so on. It appears to me that debates have long since stopped being targeted to voters who want to make their own decisions based on what candidates actually say. We may as well just fill the electoral college with heads of news websites and cable networks - then they can just choose the president directly.
4
I think some of the Bernie Sanders supporters need to realize that the ONE person the Republicans do not want to have to run against is Hillary Clinton.
Early today and again just now, I went to the Drudge Report -- a rightwing website if there ever was one -- and found that not only Sanders but even Jim Webb supposedly beat Hillary in the debate.
Come on, folks, that poll is a joke!
And so are all the rest of the Internet polls.
I would bet that a good majority of those voting on the major Internet websites, over the past 20 hours, have been Republicans and other right-wingers hoping to drive Hillary out of the race.
I know the Bernie Sanders supporters are very idealistic (which is a good thing) but I am afraid an awful lot of them are incredibly naive about political realities (which is not a good thing).
I, too, love Bernie Sanders but I do not believe he has any chance of winning the presidency; and, if he were to be the Democratic Party's nominee, he would lose not only his own race but would drag down the entire Democratic ticket with him.
This country cannot afford to have a Republican -- any Republican -- win the presidency in 2016.
Please don't believe the online polls -- they are a hoax and a joke!
Early today and again just now, I went to the Drudge Report -- a rightwing website if there ever was one -- and found that not only Sanders but even Jim Webb supposedly beat Hillary in the debate.
Come on, folks, that poll is a joke!
And so are all the rest of the Internet polls.
I would bet that a good majority of those voting on the major Internet websites, over the past 20 hours, have been Republicans and other right-wingers hoping to drive Hillary out of the race.
I know the Bernie Sanders supporters are very idealistic (which is a good thing) but I am afraid an awful lot of them are incredibly naive about political realities (which is not a good thing).
I, too, love Bernie Sanders but I do not believe he has any chance of winning the presidency; and, if he were to be the Democratic Party's nominee, he would lose not only his own race but would drag down the entire Democratic ticket with him.
This country cannot afford to have a Republican -- any Republican -- win the presidency in 2016.
Please don't believe the online polls -- they are a hoax and a joke!
18
Last night's performance in Las Vegas was a great disparagement of the false equivalency between the two parties.
6
Way to go Bernie!! I usually can't stand politics and the never ending discussions on issues that should've been resolved decades ago (ie. immigration reform), so for me to feel inspired is absolutely miraculous. And let's all be truthful, Bernie outdebated and outperformed every other candidate on every level. He appeared honest and sincere and specifically outlined in detail, to the extent practicable within allotted time, his plans for change. Hillary, on the other hand, was in true "puppet form". I mean really, pot has been legal for over a year in Colorado, Washington etc. and you still cannot form an opinion and stance on the issue of legalization. Hey Hillary, as soon as you run the numbers and figure out what stance buys you the most votes we'll be waiting patiently. You still have Wall Street- they're "banking on you". If money interferes with, and ultimately denies this country and its citizens the true voice of the people, it'll be too late to change the path this country is on. I'm ready for real change, so let's back the person that wants this as much as we do.
25
Hilary Clinton is a liar and the phone recordings of her talking to a Refco broker about her cattle futures trading is proof positive that she participated in a "money pass" between Tyson the $35k a year governor of Arkansas, Bill Clinton.
11
I felt like Alice in Wonderland as I tried to wrap my brain around the CNN Democratic debate last night. There was Hillary, of course, playing the Queen of Hearts, exuding her stern, monarchical control during the entire grand affair. Mad Hatter, played by Bernie Sanders, did not surprise. As expected, I heard only nonsense percolating from his head. However, I was truly caught off guard by Jim Webb, who like the Cheshire Cat, raised important philosophical topics, but seemed to annoy the party revelers. Of course, Tweedledee and Tweedledum, played by O'Malley and Chaffee were there! They attired well for the political soiree , but their presence failed to impress. I also expected Biden to show up and play the leading role of White Rabbit, who is forever running late. But alas, last night he failed to show up at all! After two hours of this bizarre fairy tale, I was only too glad to tune back to reality.
3
A favorite campaign trick the GOP pulls (really the brain-child of Karl Rove) is to highlight an apparent GOP weakness, and through misinformation, out-and-out blatant lies, and code-words make it the weakness of the opponent. We´re seeing this gimmick play out now with the GOP assault on Hillary Clinton's character being coded "untrustworthy" (or "untrustable" as McCarthy so succinctly put it) and "dishonest" and brazenly being attributed to Clinton at every turn without qualification. So persistent is this character assassination effort that I see this theme embraced in many of the comments here. Even in debate analyses at hand now, conservative pundits keep trying to make it an issue peculiar to Clinton where it could just as well or even more appropriately be applied to most of the GOP candidates.
11
Hillary Clinton did not chill the Biden movement.
Joe Biden did it himself by being indecisive and not joining the fight.
I could never vote for him anyway since it was his committee bill that was signed by Bill Clinton that turned America into a fascist military backed police/prison state.
Otherwise, he's a nice guy.
It really doesn't matter who becomes President. They all wind up puppets anyway.
Joe Biden did it himself by being indecisive and not joining the fight.
I could never vote for him anyway since it was his committee bill that was signed by Bill Clinton that turned America into a fascist military backed police/prison state.
Otherwise, he's a nice guy.
It really doesn't matter who becomes President. They all wind up puppets anyway.
1
Ultimately, we are (or claim to be) a democracy (though we are moving inexorably toward oligarchy or plutocracy). Given this, Mr. Biden has every right and reason to run, and I, for one, would be fine with it. I happen to support Ms. Clinton (though I very much like Mr. Sanders as well), but I think that only good can come from Mr. Biden's entrance into the race - though not, perhaps, as much for Mr. Biden himself as he and his supporters may wish. Just as Mr. Sanders has unquestionably moved Ms. Clinton "leftward" on some issues, Mr. Biden's presence can only help hone some of Ms. Clinton's positions even further (and maybe even have a "quieting" effect on Mr. Sanders' irascibleness). So if Mr. Biden feels strongly about his own vision for the country, and believes he can win, then I say: welcome to the field.
2
It would be very enlightening to hear the candidates comments and/or their position on a pardon for Snowden's. That could be a very interesting debate, to say the least.
2
Actually they did talk about Snowden and what to do about him. They even went down the debate line. The only person with a reasonable answer was Bernie Sanders.
1
A baroness, a socialist and three cast members of The Walking Dead. And not all of those are metaphors.
The only one I could see supporting is Webb but he has only a slightly better chance than I have of becoming an astronaut.
I do think it is time for everyone 1% or under to gracefully join Gov. Perry.
As for Joe Biden. I wouldn't likely vote for him either, but he will make it more fun.
The only one I could see supporting is Webb but he has only a slightly better chance than I have of becoming an astronaut.
I do think it is time for everyone 1% or under to gracefully join Gov. Perry.
As for Joe Biden. I wouldn't likely vote for him either, but he will make it more fun.
4
Remember, Webb is a quitter. He gave away the VA Senate Democratic seat he easily would have been re-elected to. No quitter for me.
Good riddance.
Good riddance.
3
Rick Perry?
The texass secessionist who can't count to three?
You must be joking.
The texass secessionist who can't count to three?
You must be joking.
Hillary was inspiring. She gave voice to us little folk who haven't got much cash but hope for a saner more collaborative future for the children whose Planet it will be.
As for Mr. Biden, a lot of us will never ever forget that there were corroborators for Anita Hill and they were not allowed to testify. A brave woman's reputation was ruined. It was awful and wrong.
As for Mr. Biden, a lot of us will never ever forget that there were corroborators for Anita Hill and they were not allowed to testify. A brave woman's reputation was ruined. It was awful and wrong.
12
It appears to me that the media is overly anxious to congratulate Hillary on something--anything--that looks positive. If the statement that "she is a progressive who can get things done" is an indication of her authoritative position, I would simply ask in reply, "What things?" Her record is what she is--insincere, inconsistent and lacking any courage or conviction. And if the media thinks she prevailed over Sanders in this debate, I believe the voters will tell them otherwise. He reminds me of Truman, not afraid to say what he thinks, and always thinking about principals instead of wielding the power of the presidency. Hillary is a striver, just like Bill. The difference is that Bill has tremendous talent that masks some of the truly petty parts of his persona. Insincerity and unvarnished thirst for power don't really appeal to people who vote. Sanders wins on the issues of sincerity, principals and conviction. What else do you want in a president?
11
I can't figure what, if any strategy, Joe Biden has had since his son, Beau, died in late May. At first, it seemed he was in a genuine process of grieving. Then, he revealed that Beau had begged him to run for the Presidency because it shouldn't go to Hillary. Such deathbed requests are always onerous, and often burden the recipient with demands they can't meet. I think Biden's dithering about entering the race is because he knows he would weaken Hillary's candidacy, as well as get a sound beating from both her attack dogs and the Republicans who would jeer his candidacy. I didn't see a win here for Biden before Hillary's debate performance. Now, I hope Mr. Biden can put this idea behind. If Hillary suffers a family health crisis, he might have window at that point, God forbid. He is a great Democrat, but is not Presidential timber.
4
Hillary Clinton was the best, most polished debater of the night. That is true.
However, it is more difficult to stand up against the pressure, lies, and demagoguery of the Bush administration and the complicit media in the run up to the Iraq war than it is to prepare for a debate.
It is more difficult to stand up for the equality of gay Americans 40 years before the public sentiment changed and the SCOTUS said something on the issue than it is to prepare for a debate.
It is more difficult to stand up against the influence of the banks and powerful special interests decades before a financial meltdown made suddenly it the popular thing to do than it is to prepare for a debate.
Thus, I will continue to support Bernie Sanders, despite the fact that he isn't a great debater.
However, it is more difficult to stand up against the pressure, lies, and demagoguery of the Bush administration and the complicit media in the run up to the Iraq war than it is to prepare for a debate.
It is more difficult to stand up for the equality of gay Americans 40 years before the public sentiment changed and the SCOTUS said something on the issue than it is to prepare for a debate.
It is more difficult to stand up against the influence of the banks and powerful special interests decades before a financial meltdown made suddenly it the popular thing to do than it is to prepare for a debate.
Thus, I will continue to support Bernie Sanders, despite the fact that he isn't a great debater.
1
I love Joseph Biden. He is the real deal, consummate Politician. But I wish he would come out and emphatically say, NO.It is too late to jump into the fray and he does not have a chance to win especially after Hillary Clinton's winning debating prowess. Vice President is a good, decent man. I do not want to see him lose!
4
I was a longtime Hillary supporter until the email mess, which remains baffling to me why she did it and why she ever thought that would be okay if it were ever disclosed her email server was located at her house. Why would this be okay with the American public? Why did she feel she needed to hide her emails?
Bernie Sanders won me over in the debate. He spoke from the heart and was real. I didn't find Hillary to be so real. I used to love her. Now I don't.
Bernie may not have a chance, though I wish he did. Joe Biden needs to get in the race. Hillary is too polarizing and has too much baggage to get elected president.
Bernie Sanders won me over in the debate. He spoke from the heart and was real. I didn't find Hillary to be so real. I used to love her. Now I don't.
Bernie may not have a chance, though I wish he did. Joe Biden needs to get in the race. Hillary is too polarizing and has too much baggage to get elected president.
6
You are baffled because you are misinformed. Clinton was not hiding her email server or her emails.
Bernie Sanders have my heart always.
Hillary Clinton will have my vote if she runs tomorrow.
Day after that is another day and situation might change.
Hillary Clinton will have my vote if she runs tomorrow.
Day after that is another day and situation might change.
6
why does this talented, articulate women sound so dead and boring when speaking prepared remarks on the trail, yet can put in a performance like that last night? If her staff has any brains, pull the plug on the teleprompters and let her speak off the cuff.
6
It is too late for Biden he has been waiting too long for the right moment.
In my dream I would love to see a debate between Donald Trump and Joe Biden. But in reality none of them have a chance to be the nominee.
In my dream I would love to see a debate between Donald Trump and Joe Biden. But in reality none of them have a chance to be the nominee.
2
Many of us believe that Sanders' policies are what we need as a nation, that our people's prosperity and welfare demand the changes he advocates--we know better than to think that cutting social security or making more sweetheart trade pacts like the TPP or allowing deregulation to increase corporate predations will bring us anything but grief. Can he be elected? That's a question we must ask. If Hillary Clinton is elected, will she stand for us or slide into a comfy relationship with the corporate wealth elite? We've seen enough of that now.
But whichever way that goes, one thing is for sure: We can't let ourselves forget what republicans have done to the country. We can't let this be about how bad democrats are, when the alternative has proven to be incredibly destructive, in ways that will take decades to repair--if repair is even possible. The naming of court justices and judges, the willingness to strip us bare for more wars of choice, deregulation and more economic crashes: all these things should be on our minds and on our tongues. The republicans want us to forget what they are, and we must not. Whatever else we do, we must not do that.
But whichever way that goes, one thing is for sure: We can't let ourselves forget what republicans have done to the country. We can't let this be about how bad democrats are, when the alternative has proven to be incredibly destructive, in ways that will take decades to repair--if repair is even possible. The naming of court justices and judges, the willingness to strip us bare for more wars of choice, deregulation and more economic crashes: all these things should be on our minds and on our tongues. The republicans want us to forget what they are, and we must not. Whatever else we do, we must not do that.
8
The media is pretty much covering its own shadow in finding Clinton's performance so remarkable and "commanding," having for half a year pushed the notion that she and her campaign were somehow floundering and in serious jeopardy because the media would not let go of the non-scandal of her email server. The email non-story, dear to the GOP, was always going to go up in smoke the moment Clinton took the debate stage and could be herself before cameras that could not cut away. Sanders did himself and the American people credit in driving a final stake in its heart. If only we could now bury the "Prince Biden to the Rescue" fairy tale as well.
4
I originally thought Hillary would prove too much of a lightning rod, too divisive as a candidate, and perhaps it would be better for the country to select someone able to bridge the divide between the parties. Not so any more. With the insurgent tail of the Republican party waging that dog and spouting their scorched earth lunacy, the Democrats need a war time consigliere. After her performance in the debate, I believe she’s the one.
12
Biden might run if it appears Sanders could win. That way Biden will take votes away from Sanders thereby assuring a Clinton win. There are those voters who simply will not vote for Clinton so Sanders is their next choice. There is no way the Establishment will allow Sanders to win in my opinion.
To me Bernie won the debate. Hillary gave a good performance given what she has to work with, but her email controversy and Iraq vote will continue to haunt her as well as her half measures that won't solve problems. Bernie saying he doesn't want to talk about her emails is not the same as dismissing it as unimportant. I think he was saying that in a Democratic primary debate this is not what people want to hear since they need to hear the candidates on the issues. However, her email mess and past misjudgments will certainly affect her in the general election. Bernie is genuine and his message is appealing. The only time he seemed off his game was when Anderson Cooper (who had an annoying habit of constantly interrupting the candidates and forcing them into odd sound bites) suddenly interrupted Hillary in the middle of her saying something about Putin, and just turns to Bernie Sanders without a specific question and says something like do you want to chime in on this. I remember wondering what was the original question. If Anderson Cooper had only done this in a normal conversational way and actually phrased a specific question then I think the response would have been different. I think Anderson Cooper was clearly favoring Hillary. When Bernie mentioned Denmark then Cooper stated that Denmark has only 5.6 million people and then asked about electability in the USA. What did that even mean? Not like Denmark will be voting in our election!
3
HRC will bring more of the same from the banking industry and its backers, the military-- she's so hawkish, and will be a lot of talk and explanation but not likely to change much if she were elected because she will be bound to her Super PAC donors. Nothing about her performance convinced me otherwise that she will say whatever will get her elected. I don't excuse the emails. I don't think her performance as SOS did much for the country. She did the tour and made some speeches. What one thing she brought about-- I cannot think of because she did nothing significant (compared to Kerry of instance). I am a NYer (and a woman) and can't think of anything significant she did as US Senator for this state. She has a brand name and she is smart; she's been running for President since she left the WH in 2000 (with some of the furnishings, I might add).
I am still interested in Biden. Different cloth altogether. Experience, poise and knowledge of what the office entails. I still hope he enters the race. I don't care how long it takes him to get in. I will not vote for HRC. I can't be turned. I do like Sanders message, He is true to his principles. I cannot identify what true principles HRC possesses. All I can hear and see form her in entitlement. I believe she will serve the interests of those who have served her interest to rise to her present height. She's still calculating and not the right woman; or its not the right time for this woman!
I am still interested in Biden. Different cloth altogether. Experience, poise and knowledge of what the office entails. I still hope he enters the race. I don't care how long it takes him to get in. I will not vote for HRC. I can't be turned. I do like Sanders message, He is true to his principles. I cannot identify what true principles HRC possesses. All I can hear and see form her in entitlement. I believe she will serve the interests of those who have served her interest to rise to her present height. She's still calculating and not the right woman; or its not the right time for this woman!
1
Funny, I'm a woman and a NYer and I know dozens of significant things she did as US Senator right down to spearheading an all boys school in the Bronx for inner city kids that has now grown into 6 all boys schools in NY and NJ with a 95% graduation rate. As SOS she single-handedly restored the US reputation with our allies who weren't so pleased about being lied to and dragged into a war by Bush. She also got Russia and China to agree to sanction Iran which was historic. Maybe you just weren't paying attention? Or maybe you're an anti-Clinton Republican posing as a Sanders supporting progressive who cares about "hawkish" foreign policy and Super PACs?
Clinton has 80% approval among Democrats and most don't bring up ridiculous WH furniture conspiracy theories or call Clinton "calculating." If you are a Democrat, you've sure bought into right wing propaganda hook line and sinker.
Clinton has 80% approval among Democrats and most don't bring up ridiculous WH furniture conspiracy theories or call Clinton "calculating." If you are a Democrat, you've sure bought into right wing propaganda hook line and sinker.
2
Go Hillary! The debate was the first time I heard Bernie and my first reaction was that I didn't think I could take 4 years of him yelling at me and saying the same thing over and over, kind of like a gruff grandfather. I warmed up to him, but I don't believe he has what it takes to become president in these United States and that he will not become the nominee. Most of America's Democrats are Obama Democrats and Bernie is a tad too left for us middle of the road States. I am proud to be a Hillary supporter and believe she is the right person for the job. Maybe Bernie can run for President of Denmark or Sweden, but even he won't be left enough for them!
17
Wow. Did Mr. Martin watch the same debate I did? Hillary came across precisely as the stilted, poll-tested, and insincere candidate that she is. Her responses to questions about Glass-Steagall and her vote on the Iraq War were canned and unconvincing.
Sanders rocked the debate. His eloquent, forceful and message was a stark contrast to Clinton and O'Malley, whose performances reeked of rehearsed, polished, sound-byte driven platitudes. In his discussion of policy, he ran circles around the other candidates, who frequently gave "me too" styled answers and trying to capitalize on the populist outrage which is fueling Bernie's campaign.
I am a long-time reader of the New York Times, but I must say I am shocked at how this paper seems to be bending over backwards to support this absurd "crazy socialist uncle" narrative about Bernie Sanders. Sanders' views and positions on every single issue which was discussed at last night's debate - on healthcare, publicly funded higher education, war, guns, and regulation of Wall Street - are completely in-step with mainstream America.
As Bernie said himself, one of the greatest threats to change in the United States may be a lack of voter turnout. It is my hope that New Yorkers - an independent minded bunch - will rely on their own instincts in the April primary rather than taking their cues from the New York Times editorial board...
Sanders rocked the debate. His eloquent, forceful and message was a stark contrast to Clinton and O'Malley, whose performances reeked of rehearsed, polished, sound-byte driven platitudes. In his discussion of policy, he ran circles around the other candidates, who frequently gave "me too" styled answers and trying to capitalize on the populist outrage which is fueling Bernie's campaign.
I am a long-time reader of the New York Times, but I must say I am shocked at how this paper seems to be bending over backwards to support this absurd "crazy socialist uncle" narrative about Bernie Sanders. Sanders' views and positions on every single issue which was discussed at last night's debate - on healthcare, publicly funded higher education, war, guns, and regulation of Wall Street - are completely in-step with mainstream America.
As Bernie said himself, one of the greatest threats to change in the United States may be a lack of voter turnout. It is my hope that New Yorkers - an independent minded bunch - will rely on their own instincts in the April primary rather than taking their cues from the New York Times editorial board...
14
She was terrific, as was Bernie Sanders. I'm looking forward to a second Democratic trailblazer -- President Obama as the first African-American to hold the office and now Hillary as the first woman president. I stand a bit to the left of Hillary on foreign policy issues, but as a woman and a feminist, I've waited my entire life for this moment.
8
So have I and I can hardly wait for that day to come, Hillary 2016!!
1
Hillary convinced Hillary supporters that she could do well in a Democreatic debate. The idea of Biden was there for the national election. Among voters in general, Hillary still is a lightning rod, and she has to show that she can sway enough independent/undecided voters into her camp during the general election. It's still a crap shoot
Hillary supporters can hope that Republicans give her a gift, the way Kevin McCarthy did with his characterization of the Benghazi committee. But if they overcome the idiot voters in their party and nominate a strong, effective candidate (not Trump, Carson or Fiorina) they can give Hillary a run for her money.
It's the Republican primary voter who can empower Hillary Clinton.
Hillary supporters can hope that Republicans give her a gift, the way Kevin McCarthy did with his characterization of the Benghazi committee. But if they overcome the idiot voters in their party and nominate a strong, effective candidate (not Trump, Carson or Fiorina) they can give Hillary a run for her money.
It's the Republican primary voter who can empower Hillary Clinton.
By the way, the wounded Milwaukee officers won their lawsuit against Badger Guns. I only wish all the candidates had been told that before their debate started, so that they had learned that crooked gun shops can be held liable for selling guns used to commit crimes.
6
Best news of the day! This was only the second time in 10 years that such a case reached a jury. We need to build on this case, push for more law suits and put the fear of litigation into the minds of gun dealers. The death of the NRA will be done not with one large blow, their demise will be the result of 1,000 cuts.
2
I hope Joe Biden stays out. As a committed Democrat, I was proud of the conduct and answers of the five people on stage. The party has worthy candidates and Joe has done too much good for too long to make his last act that of a spoiler.
Joe has earned our admiration and served America and his compatriots. It is time for him to render another service to the country and the party by sticking to his job and working for the eventual nominee.
Joe has earned our admiration and served America and his compatriots. It is time for him to render another service to the country and the party by sticking to his job and working for the eventual nominee.
11
As others have noted, I'm proud to be a Democrat today. Thank you to all the candidates last night who reminded American voters what a civil, substantive debate is supposed to look like. Not only did they show respect to the process and the office they aspire to hold, but I felt respected as a voter. While Republicans tear themselves apart over what insult will best grab the spotlight, the Democrats showed up ready to talk about real and true issues the matter. The contrast between the two parties right now is downright alarming. I only hope the American public at large can discern the difference between a farcical reality tv show and the real deal.
131
I truly do not understand why so many commenters denigrate Hillary for changing her positions over time. Evolving on the issues is a sign of intelligence, open-mindedness and a willingness to admit your previous beliefs may have been wrong. In 1996, 68% of Americans believed that gay marriage should not be legal; in 2015, that number has fallen to 37% (per Gallup). Does that mean Americans are "flip-floppers"?
Stubbornly clinging to ideology and refusing to compromise is what has made Congress so dysfunctional and America so partisan. Props to Hillary for being willing and able to evolve her beliefs over time, as rational and thoughtful people generally do.
Stubbornly clinging to ideology and refusing to compromise is what has made Congress so dysfunctional and America so partisan. Props to Hillary for being willing and able to evolve her beliefs over time, as rational and thoughtful people generally do.
17
I agree whole-heartedly that changing ones opinion is very often a virtue, and the hallmark of an evolving, intelligent mind and intellect.
Hillary, however, has shown that she changes her positions based on what an opinion poll shows is the most popular course of action. That comes off as shallow and hypocritical.
Hillary, however, has shown that she changes her positions based on what an opinion poll shows is the most popular course of action. That comes off as shallow and hypocritical.
1
Inflexibility is indeed detrimental, but so is holding a finger to the wind.
While I appreciate the Bernie supporters' passion, and I agree with much of what he says, I wish for once that progressives would look beyond the primary. The pattern is, every election cycle, to believe that because your left-leaning and clear-thinking candidate inspires with his call to revolution, surely everyone in the nation will come around. This demonstrates a naïveté about how a vast majority of voters in this country think.
11
I totally agree. He plays to his base but lets face it: he looks old, seems angry, is an anticapitalist, admires Denmark, is a consciousness objector, and a redistributionist. I may agree with most of what he says, but he is so far from the values of this country that he would end up being the Democrats' version of Barry Goldwater.
3
In a general election Sanders will swing the Independent vote and some Republicans. Hillary will not. Trump will swing some Independent votes and some Democrats. Hopefully in by end of winter more Americans will realize the Clintons are responsible for deregulation after the next turning the country into a monopoly. And how stupid can voters be? Gays per instance 8 years with Clinton as President and they did NOTHING for LGBTQ communities in fact they banned gay marriage. Four years with Clinton in senate she did notning for gays and yet last night she said she doesnt pander for votes. In 1991 Clintons told gays they had their back and NOTHING...
1
Well, I can finally exhale. Well done. Hillary just needs to be herself. Yes, really! She is a smart, savvy, highly accomplished woman with a long record of achievement, as first lady, senator, secretary of state, wife, mother, confessor and advisor to a very successful and penitent president, and now a candidate for the presidency. So, she comes across as a serious, focussed person who wants (and is able) to engage in debate on serious matters of policy. Shouldn't that be a requirement for someone running for president? Wearing aprons and baking cookies is fine for any man or woman who enjoys that. But, it is just not her thing. Voters need to get over it and over their sexism as to how a woman should be. To American voters I would just say, a strong, smart woman in a pantsuit is nothing to be afraid of. Just remember George W Bush and look at the trash the Republicans are offering for 2016 and you'll know who to vote for in the next election.
13
Any of the Democratic candidates I saw and heard last night will be far preferable to Jeb! or The Donald or other Republican candidates. (Has Huckabee gone away yet?) I've never been a fan of Hillary Clinton or her husband, but she was excellent in debate on the issues. She seemed natural and likable. I was surprised and pleased. I expect eight more years of Democratic presidency.
11
Notice how this headline has no actual people mentioned in it: her "performance... chills... [his] movement."
That's because the article represents a few conversations with political strategists, and Mr. Martin's analysis of the campaign narrative.
This is not news, it's educated gossip.
That's because the article represents a few conversations with political strategists, and Mr. Martin's analysis of the campaign narrative.
This is not news, it's educated gossip.
10
Democrats choose to turn a blind to Hillary's emails despite the fact that most people know what she did was wrong, even illegal. They have no problem foisting a dishonest and conniving president on the nation.
Anyone who believes democrats occupy the higher moral ground should seriously reconsider.
Anyone who believes democrats occupy the higher moral ground should seriously reconsider.
6
No one has been able to articulate what, if anything, was illegal or conniving about Hillary using a personal web server.
The real revelation seems to be that several million dollars of taxpayer-funded investigation have confirmed that a woman in her 60s finds email server technology confusing.
I think Bernie Sanders and Kevin McCarthy have both called it out for what it is.
The real revelation seems to be that several million dollars of taxpayer-funded investigation have confirmed that a woman in her 60s finds email server technology confusing.
I think Bernie Sanders and Kevin McCarthy have both called it out for what it is.
15
AACNY, you're beating a dead horse. That's over. Bernie Sanders buried the carcass last night.
11
Jim:
In a room full of progressives maybe.
Clinton is under investigation by the FBI. She not only left her emails exposed to hackers and potentially all with whom she was in contact, but she also deleted her emails during an ongoing investigation.
If anything that was an impetuous remark by Sanders and demonstrated he has no interest in pursuing the truth except as he sees it (ex., where the usual suspects are guilty of something).
In a room full of progressives maybe.
Clinton is under investigation by the FBI. She not only left her emails exposed to hackers and potentially all with whom she was in contact, but she also deleted her emails during an ongoing investigation.
If anything that was an impetuous remark by Sanders and demonstrated he has no interest in pursuing the truth except as he sees it (ex., where the usual suspects are guilty of something).
3
And yet she is still not prepared to state her position on the legalization of marijuana? Really? It's too "new" an issue? I suppose when one considers that it was just a couple weeks ago that she finally came up with her stance on Keystone XL, we should expect her to have her pot position marked out by 2018.
Always just one toe in the water, testing the political winds of every move-not bold and willing to 'just say it' like Senator Sanders.
Yawn.
Always just one toe in the water, testing the political winds of every move-not bold and willing to 'just say it' like Senator Sanders.
Yawn.
18
She'll say it one Bernie says it and it polls well. She's a conservative coward.
2
Listen to the difference between Clinton and Sanders.
Really, do we need more of the same?
I think that most believe by now that Hillary more than anything, wants to be POTUS. She'll say anything to whoever is in front of her, in the local accent if necessary. She's money pure and simple.
Sanders makes the most sense and can be trusted.
Really, do we need more of the same?
I think that most believe by now that Hillary more than anything, wants to be POTUS. She'll say anything to whoever is in front of her, in the local accent if necessary. She's money pure and simple.
Sanders makes the most sense and can be trusted.
20
I'm great with Bernie. However, I can't see that he will have any better chance at winning than McGovern did. You have to be really deluded to think that the Red Scare Republicans will raise over Sanders won't obliterate him.
2
Hard to understand the rationale that would keep Crazy Uncle Joe out of the race. There's plenty of room in the presidential pool for another geriatric Democrat. Especially one "who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy."
7
I saw the debate and have a different conclusion than the NY Times journalists have.Sanders won the debate via his message.Hillary won the debate on the strict rules of debating.The other three candidates accomplished nothing and need to withdraw.I just find Hillary unappealing politically.No more Clintons or Bushes ever again.
20
So conflicted here.
My heart is with Bernie, but I like Hillary, too.
Bernie has been on his message from last night for decades, and that kind of consistency in trying to better the nation is far and away the best presidential quality there is.
Meanwhile, last night, Clinton was the powerhouse she is and that I have been waiting for her to show. So she does not exude the warm and fuzzies. Big deal. Running the country is serious business and I want someone who has the backbone and fortitude to do it. Who cares if we can't have a beer together.
Sanders?/Clinton? 2016.
My heart is with Bernie, but I like Hillary, too.
Bernie has been on his message from last night for decades, and that kind of consistency in trying to better the nation is far and away the best presidential quality there is.
Meanwhile, last night, Clinton was the powerhouse she is and that I have been waiting for her to show. So she does not exude the warm and fuzzies. Big deal. Running the country is serious business and I want someone who has the backbone and fortitude to do it. Who cares if we can't have a beer together.
Sanders?/Clinton? 2016.
15
Hillary locked herself into the Vital Center. She is in a commanding position.
Bernie has refuted capitalism. Tough position.
Jim Webb looked spooky and wooden. He needs to get out. NOW.
O'Mallay has some ideas but he didn't improve his lot.
Chaffee was awful. "I inherited my daddy's Senate seat and was not prepared." Not a strong response. Goodbye, Chaffee...
Bernie has refuted capitalism. Tough position.
Jim Webb looked spooky and wooden. He needs to get out. NOW.
O'Mallay has some ideas but he didn't improve his lot.
Chaffee was awful. "I inherited my daddy's Senate seat and was not prepared." Not a strong response. Goodbye, Chaffee...
8
I hate to rain on the NY times pre-election parade. But according to Adam Johnson (associate editor of AlterNet) Sanders won the debate by far. He wrote today "there wasn’t, to this writer's knowledge, a poll he didn’t win by at least an 18-point margin. But you wouldn’t know this from reading the establishment press."
Since when did the NY Times refuse to report uncomfortable truths? I know Clinton is the establishment choice for POTUS. What about what real people think--we're the voters. Sanders can't get a mention other than criticism in the MSM.
Since when did the NY Times refuse to report uncomfortable truths? I know Clinton is the establishment choice for POTUS. What about what real people think--we're the voters. Sanders can't get a mention other than criticism in the MSM.
31
Most if not all of the early polls are showing Sanders won.
2
Then why don't you link to these polls? Who is Adam Johnson? What is Alternet? How do I know that they provide reliable, unbiased information?
Hey, you might be right, but that would be an amazing story that even the NYT would run, if Bernie Sanders was really 18 points ahead of Hillary Clinton.
I'm sorry but I won't accept your unsubstantiated claims.
Hey, you might be right, but that would be an amazing story that even the NYT would run, if Bernie Sanders was really 18 points ahead of Hillary Clinton.
I'm sorry but I won't accept your unsubstantiated claims.
I love Bernie. He is adorable. He is not, however, going to be the nominee. I have known that all along but kept hoping. I love everything he says. I love everything he does. But, he is not going to be the nominee. This was finally brought home to me last night. Hillary is a force of nature. She handily won the debate and will be the nominee.
Sometimes, I dream that Bernie will be her vice-president but I know it's only a dream.
Sometimes, I dream that Bernie will be her vice-president but I know it's only a dream.
18
LARRY LESSIG, Democratic candidate for President 2016, was blocked from attending the debate even though he polls higher than some of the other Democratic candidates. Find Lessig's website and sign the petition to open the Democratic debates to the most important issue. End the corporate corruption and control of government policy and elections.
2
Larry Lessig isn't a serious candidate. He only has one policy issue. The DNC is right to want nothing to do with him.
I have been surprised and disappointed by the partisan coverage of this newspaper. Look at the title of this article: "Clinton’s Steady Performance in Debate Quiets Talk of Biden." What exactly does that mean? Among whom has the talk quieted? Since last night? That could be only the most subjective and unempirical perception. NYT articles seem to be slanted towards suggesting some deficiency in the candidacy of Mr. Biden going back to the article about Biden's friends' being worried he would spoil his legacy by running. Last night Hillary talked loud but that should not necessarily be confused with strength. She was frankly surrounded by no serious contenders other than Sanders, who could probably not secure the nomination. The Democrats need to be concerned not about who would win the nomination but who could beat the Republicans. The paper seems to be engaging in partisanship reminiscent of of the brazen newspapers in the Eighteenth century such as during the fight over the alien and sedition act and the election of 1800.
21
The Times always discriminates against the right. Now they are discriminating on the left against anyone not Hillary. Welcome to the club.
I understand that Bernie will not win, and that he is campaigning to get a few left wing ideas on the table. Good for him, and I hope Hillary feels emboldened to take on some of his positions should she win the presidency.
The Democratic candidates appear pragmatic and mature in this regard, while the Republican candidates are as obsessed with the media's attention as they are with themselves.
I just wish the media would stop playing the game; it's painful to watch and I am embarrassed for them. But in the end, ratings=money and there are 24 hours of news to create each day.
The Democratic candidates appear pragmatic and mature in this regard, while the Republican candidates are as obsessed with the media's attention as they are with themselves.
I just wish the media would stop playing the game; it's painful to watch and I am embarrassed for them. But in the end, ratings=money and there are 24 hours of news to create each day.
8
Ten minutes into the post-debate discussion on CNN and MSNBC, as various commentators declared that Hillary had 'won' the debate, I got up and went to the computer and donated money to Bernie Sander's campaign. What he says is true--corporate media is as stifling a force in modern America as Wall Street, the energy companies, or Big pharma. I refuse to vote for Hillary, who is nothing more than another member of the elite who run this country.
31
I'm not a Hillary supporter, but I thought she clearly won the debate. Furthermore, I believe that Sanders intentionally helped Clinton. It is clear to me that Sanders is dishonest, and not a legitimate candidate. I would be disappointed were I a fan of his.
Cheers
Cheers
3
Virtually all of the NYT coverage is about performance, like this is all people competing for a role in a movie and who's going to be most convincing on the screen.
There's hardly anything about substance, like who wants to do what and how to get a country and a world in trouble on the right track. One candidate passionately called for war on climate change. He is largely ignored in coverage because he just wasn't "convincing" enough in his performance to warrant any attention.
What if the NYT used these debates as opportunities to figure out what the future would be like under each candidate, rather than slobber like children over whether a certain candidate managed to act human and get a little clever for two hours?
You should be ashamed of yourselves.
There's hardly anything about substance, like who wants to do what and how to get a country and a world in trouble on the right track. One candidate passionately called for war on climate change. He is largely ignored in coverage because he just wasn't "convincing" enough in his performance to warrant any attention.
What if the NYT used these debates as opportunities to figure out what the future would be like under each candidate, rather than slobber like children over whether a certain candidate managed to act human and get a little clever for two hours?
You should be ashamed of yourselves.
29
I think this is pretty harsh. Both Bernie and Hillary's proposals were well documented in the debate writeup last night. Sanders wasn't disparaged because he didn't sound convincing in his performance--on the contrary, nobody would ever accuse Sanders of not being convincing. His positions were assessed as to their appropriateness in terms of progressive values. While Sanders has strong opinions, many of which I agree with, some others such as knocking capitalism in general (rather than capitalism run amok) or expressing admiration for Scandanavian countries on virtually all fronts, are sophomoric, since America is not a homogeneous nation like Denmark, Sweden, or Norway.
What the Times did cover was how substantive this debate was--focused solely on issues, not petty hatreds or put-downs--compared to the GOP. Now that is something remarkable, and has everything to do with performance and the strong character of the candidates.
What the Times did cover was how substantive this debate was--focused solely on issues, not petty hatreds or put-downs--compared to the GOP. Now that is something remarkable, and has everything to do with performance and the strong character of the candidates.
1
Whether the Democratic nominee were Clinton or Biden, either way, millennials will stay at home. There's no there there. Or the there is everywhere.
Do you, Democrats, NY Times Editors who keep putting the spotlight on Clinton, really want someone who voted for the Iraq war? who has historically received, and for all we know, continues to receive, the lion's share of her financial support from Wall St. and global corporations? Really?
Maybe you all know better than to listen to her. You've got your earmuffs on while unwitting folks like me get aurally anesthetized. Sleep, save me... or better yet, Bernie, keep me awake!
Do you, Democrats, NY Times Editors who keep putting the spotlight on Clinton, really want someone who voted for the Iraq war? who has historically received, and for all we know, continues to receive, the lion's share of her financial support from Wall St. and global corporations? Really?
Maybe you all know better than to listen to her. You've got your earmuffs on while unwitting folks like me get aurally anesthetized. Sleep, save me... or better yet, Bernie, keep me awake!
28
The Democratic Party won last night. What a show of statesmanship, decency, and an ability to address the issues as compared to the Republic debates.
29
If Joe Biden will not read the writing on the wall, and still do childish to stand in the Presidential election, and against all odds; if he is nominated as the Democratic nominee; doubtlessly; he will become another Walter Mondale; who was badly defeated by Reagan-Bush in 1984. And, like, Mondale; he will lose his position, reputation and standing in his retired life.
4
The MSM is determined to pick the Democrat and the GOP nominee. PERIOD! Clinton/Bush here we come.
That said, I have to agree with some commentators this morning that "the Clinton Camp has "gotten" to Sanders"; hence the gift from Sanders taking Hillary's honesty(or lack thereof) off the table. There is no argument you can make for giving Clinton a 'hand-up', and that Sanders is a serious candidate.
The race for the Democratic nomination is a sham.
Cheers
That said, I have to agree with some commentators this morning that "the Clinton Camp has "gotten" to Sanders"; hence the gift from Sanders taking Hillary's honesty(or lack thereof) off the table. There is no argument you can make for giving Clinton a 'hand-up', and that Sanders is a serious candidate.
The race for the Democratic nomination is a sham.
Cheers
4
It is incredible that Anderson Cooper failed to ask a SINGLE question about allegations of Clinton's conflict of interest and self-dealing through the Clinton Foundation. She claims have been a public servant her whole life and yet somehow lives high on the hog in a mansion (after buying her daughter a $10 million double-apartment in NYC). So they are spending the money people donate for charity e.g. to combat AIDS in Africa on themselves?
I thought Hillary lost the debate during her exchange with Sanders on Wall Street reform. She thinks people are stupid and will actually believe she is against the rich and wants to rein in the banks. Sanders was kind to call her "naive" to think we could control TBTF banks without breaking them up. I would have said "utterly disingenuous."
I thought Hillary lost the debate during her exchange with Sanders on Wall Street reform. She thinks people are stupid and will actually believe she is against the rich and wants to rein in the banks. Sanders was kind to call her "naive" to think we could control TBTF banks without breaking them up. I would have said "utterly disingenuous."
21
It's obvious Ms. Clinton will win the nomination. And since she has more foreign policy experience than all the Republican candidates she has a good chance of winning the election.
11
Obama's foreign policy is not highly regarded. If Clinton wins the primary, the republicans will have another chance to run against Obama just like they did in the mid-terms quite successfully.
AAC, if I were republican, and had enough of a memory to recall what the last republican president got us into, the trillions lost, the lives lost, the arrogance and loss of respect in the world, I wouldn't be wanting to pretend to foreign policy expertise. Not for a long, long time.
3
No no no, the live polls that CNN conducted during the debate shows just how much Hilary did NOT win. Between all five candidates, Bernie Sanders had over 80% of the votes. She barely crossed the 12% line. Not only that the amount of followers he gained on twitter during the debate dwarfed all of the other candidates, collectively. Don't believe me, do a quick google search and fact check me. The media bias on this debate is so overwhelmingly transparent that if you don't notice it, you're probably voting republican. All in all whether or not you agree with Sanders, he is the only person that was on that stage that was sincere. He doesn't support super pacs or donations from huge corporations, he gained over $1 million dollars in donations from everyday citizens since last night! The people in this country are continuously duped by the major media outlets, stop listening to them and think for your selves!
29
The post debate commentary celebrates Clinton as the huge winner. This seems odd to me, so I am asking, why are the pundits saying that?
I saw the entire debate. Ignoring the other three candidates, I would call it a draw. BOTH Clinton and Sanders gave a good, persuasive account of themselves. I see no reason for any partisan on either side to be the least bit disappointed. Bernie was lovable and tough. So was Hillary.
So why all the acclaim for Hillary?
It has purely to do with the perception going in that Clinton is mired in difficulties and her campaign has seemed to stall. But, last night, Clinton did bring her 'A game'. She was poised, confident, measured, and seemed to enjoy herself. So her performance reassured those who have been worried for a while now that her ship might actually be sinking. Persons thus reassured proclaim this as 'winning'.
But no, a 'win over Sanders' it was not. A normally bright person (I consider myself one) would not detect any of Sanders' "unpreparedness" nor would his lack of polish compared to Clinton bother anyone who simply compared their respective messages. I'd have to say, if you agree that income inequality is the most important issue facing our country today, Bernie is your guy, still.
I like both candidates. Bernie in no way got 'defeated'. Clinton improved what has come to be seen as a weakened position and the clamor for Biden was quelled. That's what happened last night.
I saw the entire debate. Ignoring the other three candidates, I would call it a draw. BOTH Clinton and Sanders gave a good, persuasive account of themselves. I see no reason for any partisan on either side to be the least bit disappointed. Bernie was lovable and tough. So was Hillary.
So why all the acclaim for Hillary?
It has purely to do with the perception going in that Clinton is mired in difficulties and her campaign has seemed to stall. But, last night, Clinton did bring her 'A game'. She was poised, confident, measured, and seemed to enjoy herself. So her performance reassured those who have been worried for a while now that her ship might actually be sinking. Persons thus reassured proclaim this as 'winning'.
But no, a 'win over Sanders' it was not. A normally bright person (I consider myself one) would not detect any of Sanders' "unpreparedness" nor would his lack of polish compared to Clinton bother anyone who simply compared their respective messages. I'd have to say, if you agree that income inequality is the most important issue facing our country today, Bernie is your guy, still.
I like both candidates. Bernie in no way got 'defeated'. Clinton improved what has come to be seen as a weakened position and the clamor for Biden was quelled. That's what happened last night.
20
Sanders has no intention of winning the nomination; he could have taken Clinton 'out' yesterday. He didn't! He is playing you for a fool.
The article title is "HC debate performance chills Biden movement"
Really? What movement would that be? I think Biden will decide whether to run based on his own judgement.
Hillary did a terrific job last night in front of a small, friendly crowd but ...
- That won't stop the Republican slime machine
- There are 5 more Dem debates
- Something like 51-53% of all voters nationwide view her negatively
- And remember Hillary was favorite to win the nomination in 2008 before any votes were cast.
We don't need a coronation and the media "pronouncements" are really starting to annoy me. If Biden wants the nomination, of course he'll have to fight for it and enlist donors. But he would be a great and formidable candidate.
Really? What movement would that be? I think Biden will decide whether to run based on his own judgement.
Hillary did a terrific job last night in front of a small, friendly crowd but ...
- That won't stop the Republican slime machine
- There are 5 more Dem debates
- Something like 51-53% of all voters nationwide view her negatively
- And remember Hillary was favorite to win the nomination in 2008 before any votes were cast.
We don't need a coronation and the media "pronouncements" are really starting to annoy me. If Biden wants the nomination, of course he'll have to fight for it and enlist donors. But he would be a great and formidable candidate.
7
Very disappointed in the Times for essentially reprinting the Clinton campaign's post-debate spin. I did not find her impressive at all– more canned responses and bland corporatism.
Sanders is wildly unrealistic and I don't think he'd accomplish more than 5% of the things he's promising due to the disgusting lack of leadership in Congress but it's obvious he really believes what he's saying. Secretary Clinton (like Romney) gives the impression that she's only passionate about her own political career.
Sanders is wildly unrealistic and I don't think he'd accomplish more than 5% of the things he's promising due to the disgusting lack of leadership in Congress but it's obvious he really believes what he's saying. Secretary Clinton (like Romney) gives the impression that she's only passionate about her own political career.
21
I wasn't impressed by Hillary. She came across as the female version of Slick Willie. Likability is not tantamount to being a tough, intelligent president. Jim Webb may not be the most charming candidate but he takes no prisoners.
8
Immediately following last night's debate and again this morning, I checked several live and follow-up polls, which by approximately 75 percent consensus gave the win to Bernie Sanders. The Chicago Tribune, the Washington Post and Huffington Post likewise put Sanders on top. So it was surprising and revealing to see this newspaper declare Hillary the winner by decree. Does the NY Times have an agenda in the democratic primaries for which it will set aside its journalistic standards?
I don't care about the emails or Benghazi, but Hillary has far too many puppet strings attached that are being controlled by Wall Street and other corporate interests. That is the baggage that matters, and if she becomes the nominee, I will either vote for Jill Stein or will miss voting for president for the first time since 1980.
I don't care about the emails or Benghazi, but Hillary has far too many puppet strings attached that are being controlled by Wall Street and other corporate interests. That is the baggage that matters, and if she becomes the nominee, I will either vote for Jill Stein or will miss voting for president for the first time since 1980.
25
Stunned by this article, though should not be. She is polished , groomed, rehearsed. Senator Sanders , authentic, honest, advocating for America. I guess according to the pundits, he should have taken her down about the emails. To me, the highlight of the debates. Time to send some more money to Senator Sanders. This life long democratic, does not want smoke and mirrors, and a candidate that "looks good". I want the real deal, for my country, for my family.
28
I watched last night's debate and I am shocked that your review is so favorable to Hillary Clinton. She was well rehearsed and knowledgeable but she also failed to answer many straightforward questions. Most important to me was she did not explain her seemingly politically expedient re-positioning on several issues (trade, gun regulation, parental leave, education funding, global climate change, equal marriage, tax policy, etc.) and her lack of position on other issues (legalization of marijuana, financial regulation, social security tax expansion, etc.)
This is one voter who after the debate was over, decided to donate to the DRAFT BIDEN campaign. We need Joe. No one on that stage (including Hillary) can beat the Republicans.
This is one voter who after the debate was over, decided to donate to the DRAFT BIDEN campaign. We need Joe. No one on that stage (including Hillary) can beat the Republicans.
7
Boosting Clinton is sooo establishment. Bernie Sanders deserves better than being dismissed. He's the real deal.
25
Two thoughts:
1 - Hillary is a polished and seasoned debater, but she is not a straightforward, sincere, moral and honest person, and Bernie Sanders is. She is only a temporary progressive.
2 - If the No. 2 executive of any American corporation used a private email server to conduct official company business, he/she would be immediately fired. It is not a small matter to be brushed off or laughed at.
1 - Hillary is a polished and seasoned debater, but she is not a straightforward, sincere, moral and honest person, and Bernie Sanders is. She is only a temporary progressive.
2 - If the No. 2 executive of any American corporation used a private email server to conduct official company business, he/she would be immediately fired. It is not a small matter to be brushed off or laughed at.
24
The facts are that Joe Biden is not a strong alternative to Hillary nor is he a stronger candidate against the GOP - he's already mounted 2 past campaigns for the presidency that failed, 1988 and 2008. Much like the GOP doesn't need Mitt to run again the Dems surely don't need Joe to run again.
Bernie was cool, my gf kept referring to him as her "uncle" and he will help steer the dialogue, which even he knows is his purpose. Find a place for him in Hillary's cabinet or as Trevor Noah's replacement should that need be.
Bernie was cool, my gf kept referring to him as her "uncle" and he will help steer the dialogue, which even he knows is his purpose. Find a place for him in Hillary's cabinet or as Trevor Noah's replacement should that need be.
6
when Worthington says "facts are" Biden is a weak candidate, whatever 'facts' does he mean? that biden lost to Obama in 2008 -- Hillary did too, Obama was a 'phenom'. btw, seem to recall Nixon lost to JFK AND to pat brown (for calif gov) before going on to 1 2/3 terms in White House. you want 'facts' -- do the math; if Biden can win Penn AND Ohio in a general election (as biden always has for past 40+ years), he goes to White House with 270+ electoral votes NO MATTER what happens in other 'swing' states (Fla, Va, NC, Col, Iowa, etc). you can personally like old Joe or not, those are the math 'facts'; forget your personal gut reaction -- wake up and smell the real political coffee
1
At the end of the day folks Hillary Clinton cannot win the White House unless her GOP opponent is Jeb Bush----plain and simple. Since the Republicans are unlikely to be stupid enough to nominate JB let's hope the Democrats are not dumb enough to nominate HRC. This country has had enough of Bushes and Clintons running amok in the Oval office. Any other candidates, or even people plucked at random off the street, would be infinitely preferable to either one of these political hack puppets that are bought and sold cheap by the special corporate and financial interests. Also I believe if the Democrats loose their senses and nominate Hillary, not only will they loose but big time. Bernie Sanders has always run as an independent for every other office he has ever held and thus owes nothing to the Democratic Party. If denied the nomination he will almost certainly on principle walk away from the Democratic Party and run as an independent. Whether he does or not Hillary is finished politically sometime within the next 13 months or sooner. The electorate of the Democrats need to understand that America will never accept another Clinton in the White House----ever. Too much baggage and endless scandals going back to their days in the Arkansas Governor's Mansion. Too many laws signed to benefit the rich and fleece the poor: NAFTA, GATT/WTO, repeal of Glass Steagall, etc. If the Democrats take Clinton the Republicans will drag all of this out and cruise to easy victory in November, 2016.
8
Do you remember 2000? I do. That, after eight years of Clinton, was not a bad time to be an American. I have problems with some things he did, notably NAFTA signing and such (as sexual hanky-panky goes way back in DC and in the WH, although in the past it was not turned into a prime-time circus but discretely overlooked, I'm not prone to hyper-ventilate over that). But I'd trade the place we are today, still trying to stagger back from the eight years of being thrown off cliffs and into maelstroms by the Bush guys, for that place we were in 2000 in a heartbeat.
7
the MSM is determined to produce that exact match-up.
1
Unfortunately the economic fall out from NAFTA, WTO, as well as the repeal of Glass-Steagall has resulted in horrendous blow back that has cost millions of Americans their jobs, hollowed out our industrial base, decimated our middle class, and allowed the banks, corporations, brokerage houses to beat, cheat and swindle millions of consumers and turn around and be rewarded with trillions of dollars taxpayer bail outs for doing so. Memory seems to be selective. Believe me, if Hillary Clinton wins the Democratic nomination the Republicans will take her down and parade all the Clinton's crimes and sins going back to Arkansas. It will result in a crushing Democratic defeat next November.
6
Please- someone explain why two members of the geriatric population seem to be popular with so many voters. It is unimaginable to me that in a country of 300 million people, the show last night featured two very tired and very mundane individuals. The ideas of which they spoke either have been tried and not worked or impossible to implement. The nation is in need of fresh ideas with younger candidates who have a reasonably good chance of filling out their term(s) and not having to lay on their deathbed.
3
NYT's Martin goofed on picking real winner at last night's debate -- Joe Biden. Biden and/or his handlers are playing VERY canny politics. Biden has thus far been immune from any brickbats thrown by Democrats OR Republicans (last man standing?). Choosing to be a no show (at this time) was a win-win decision for Biden; either Hillary would lay an egg -- in which case Biden would benefit -- or Hillary would give a solid performance -- in which case Biden would benefit by not standing next to her as she did it.
The nomination AND the election are Biden's for the taking. Biden enters the race and Hillary's union and liberal support evaporates; Biden runs against ANY Republican and takes Pennsylvania and Ohio ( where he hasn't lost in 40 years) and he tops 270 electoral votes no matter what happens in Florida, Virginia, N Carolina, Colorado, Iowa et al It's just mathematics -- Biden is a lock in general election (nobody particularly hates 'good old Joe' and Hillary, unfortunately for her, HAS been made into a very divisive personage). do the math Mr. Martin.
The nomination AND the election are Biden's for the taking. Biden enters the race and Hillary's union and liberal support evaporates; Biden runs against ANY Republican and takes Pennsylvania and Ohio ( where he hasn't lost in 40 years) and he tops 270 electoral votes no matter what happens in Florida, Virginia, N Carolina, Colorado, Iowa et al It's just mathematics -- Biden is a lock in general election (nobody particularly hates 'good old Joe' and Hillary, unfortunately for her, HAS been made into a very divisive personage). do the math Mr. Martin.
6
I share many of the commenters who felt that Bernie was the man of the night. When Hillary stumbled on how to improve SS, Bernie helped her out by saying SS need more money in to assure that SS will be solvent for years to come. She was not able to call for increasing the basis from around $115,000 to much more, at least $250k. Bernie pointed out the absurdity of a millionaire and an executive secretary paying in the same amount. Does Hillary not know? Or, was it a senior moment? Admittedly, Bernie must call for a revolution that he can pull off. We must start making Medicare for those 55 and over, before we can make it available for all.
And why is the media jumping on the mention of Denmark? These are the most content people in the world. Bernie's comment was in the context of healthcare and maternal leave, not that we become Denmark.
Listen up and understand that Revolution does not mean blood in the streets and Sandres' Socialism is not pure 100% government ownership of everything, but adoption of the most admirable parts of Socialism.
And why is the media jumping on the mention of Denmark? These are the most content people in the world. Bernie's comment was in the context of healthcare and maternal leave, not that we become Denmark.
Listen up and understand that Revolution does not mean blood in the streets and Sandres' Socialism is not pure 100% government ownership of everything, but adoption of the most admirable parts of Socialism.
17
In terms of a general sense of the candidate and her past performance and positions, I would have characterized Hillary Clinton as a conservative to moderate Democrat who talks a good game but talks more than she accomplishes. I've never seen her as a progressive and I don't understand what she accomplished as Secretary of State. But maybe this debate was a Rorschach test.
17
So that's what it looks like when the grown-ups talk about serious national and international issues.
How on earth does such a large swath of the country think that these issues are so simple that a Donald Trump can solve them with a snap of his fingers? But if Trump actually does get on the nomination, we are going to see by the popular vote count just how ill-educated and narrow minded a country we are.
That a man as despicable in his personal characteristics as Trump is can appeal to enough Americans to be at the top of the polls, is a very telling thing. Take a good look everyone. This is who we apparently are as a country.
How on earth does such a large swath of the country think that these issues are so simple that a Donald Trump can solve them with a snap of his fingers? But if Trump actually does get on the nomination, we are going to see by the popular vote count just how ill-educated and narrow minded a country we are.
That a man as despicable in his personal characteristics as Trump is can appeal to enough Americans to be at the top of the polls, is a very telling thing. Take a good look everyone. This is who we apparently are as a country.
27
Without naive people, there would be no politics. How on earth does such a large swath of the country think that a single one of Bernie Sanders' ("I'm gonna make hedge fund guys buy you a new hip and send your grandkids to college for free!") ideas will ever get through Congress?
2
Bernie Sanders is doing Hillary a huge favor just by being in the race (aside from graciously letting her take a powder on the emails). First, he makes her sound measured and moderate. Second, he will be attracting new voters to the party.
Joe Biden should -- in the next 24 hours -- issue a statement saying that last night made clear that the Democrats have 5 experienced and competent grownups to choose from, and he will gladly and enthusiastically support the nominee. He will thus leave public service on a high note, and be well-remembered by all the part faithful.
Joe Biden should -- in the next 24 hours -- issue a statement saying that last night made clear that the Democrats have 5 experienced and competent grownups to choose from, and he will gladly and enthusiastically support the nominee. He will thus leave public service on a high note, and be well-remembered by all the part faithful.
11
You're sorely mistaken if you think that most of Sander's supporters will vote for Clinton if he fails to be nominated. They will either write him in, vote Green, or stay home. No one wants her but the media elites who are trying to shove her down our throats.
Bernie won EVERY poll and focus group conducted, with a margin of no less than 18 points. He won by such wide margins sites like CNN removed the poll from the site. But according to the media elites - "Hillary won the debate".
Bernie won EVERY poll and focus group conducted, with a margin of no less than 18 points. He won by such wide margins sites like CNN removed the poll from the site. But according to the media elites - "Hillary won the debate".
5
I think you raise excellent points--some will stay home. But others won't. So the actual effect will be somewhere in between my observations and yours.
1
Very weak field of candidates. Hillary looked great by comparison even though she is in the 1%.
Loved Sanders passion and he preached the truth about rich and poor in a way that is undeniable. I get the impression that he is the only one who would do anything about it.
Loved Sanders passion and he preached the truth about rich and poor in a way that is undeniable. I get the impression that he is the only one who would do anything about it.
22
He was the only one up there who wasn't canned and measured. His vehemence was sincere but most importantly, dead on. I was shocked all four of the others came through so unscathed regarding their campaign financing. It disappointing to me the NYTimes would regard Clinton's not tripping up as a victory. If one measured the cheering in the room, the winner was obviously Sen. Sanders.
14
As a former Republican who switched in the late 1990s thanks to Ken Starr, after watching last night's debate, I'm proud of my adopted political party for showing how educated, intelligent, civilized people debate the issues. Last night was the mirror opposite of the Republican debates. No screamers, no nuts, no idiots, no Space Ghost talk, no viciousness, not a single stupid answer!
Truth is, America would be in good hands if any of the 5 became our next President. My problem is I want to live in the future country of President Bernie Sanders but I also want to vote for the 1st female President of the United States. I am Pro-Bernie while being Pro-Hillary!
The best solution is for Hillary to adopt the messages Bernie is putting out & actually make it all come true in her 2 terms as our President. Like Liz Warren, I want Bernie to stay in the Senate until he beats Strom Thurmond's record!
It will take far more than a Village to fix what's wrong with America. The brutal Un-Thinking of the dying Republican Party must be cleansed from the small minds of Republican voters. The bright green grip of American Oligarchs must be removed from the throat of US politics & government.
Glass Steagall must be brought back. The Fairness Doctrine must be brought back. Universal Health Care & Free college tuition must be instituted. War must end. No one should earn 68.5 million per month! Pot should be legal & taxed. We can do this!
Truth is, America would be in good hands if any of the 5 became our next President. My problem is I want to live in the future country of President Bernie Sanders but I also want to vote for the 1st female President of the United States. I am Pro-Bernie while being Pro-Hillary!
The best solution is for Hillary to adopt the messages Bernie is putting out & actually make it all come true in her 2 terms as our President. Like Liz Warren, I want Bernie to stay in the Senate until he beats Strom Thurmond's record!
It will take far more than a Village to fix what's wrong with America. The brutal Un-Thinking of the dying Republican Party must be cleansed from the small minds of Republican voters. The bright green grip of American Oligarchs must be removed from the throat of US politics & government.
Glass Steagall must be brought back. The Fairness Doctrine must be brought back. Universal Health Care & Free college tuition must be instituted. War must end. No one should earn 68.5 million per month! Pot should be legal & taxed. We can do this!
40
Do not vote for Hillary just because she's female. That is an insult to women everywhere. I want a female president too, and I think women would make great presidents. She is not one of them, however. Anyone who voted for the Iraq war isn't worthy of our vote.
2
Your positions on the issues are much more similar to Bernie's.
Please do not forget- Hillary is bought and sold by big money power groups just like the GOP candidates. I thought her performance was mediocre and lackluster. The canned, rehearsed one liners were predictable and boring. In fact the entire group was boring- The only one who really put it out it on the line was Bernie, but I'm not a big fan of him either. Typical democratic politicians, play hard left to win the popular vote, then swing center right to satisfy their corporate donors when elected.
9
Sanders has no corporate donors. Sanders has no super pac. Sanders will not swing center right. If anything, he will swing center left (somewhat) as president to accommodate the entire country's views and not just his own.
2
It hardly matters to me how HRC performed last night, as I was paying much more attention to the Cubs' home runs. Further, I had no reason to see any more of her; in fact I find her voice grating and overbearing. As a liberal democrat, my disappointment in the Clintons knows no bounds, and cannot be mitigated by a few more self-serving machinations on her part. Run, Joe, Run.
4
I also watched the debate as many of us did. I believe that Gov. O' Mally was the only credible candidate to fit in the Presidential category. I do not think Sanders or Clinton can be our Commander in Chief. There were no specific ideas there to catch from Clinton or Sanders. US cannot afford to have leaders with flip flop nature and lack of integrity. E-mails issue does matter contrary to Sanders remarks. Violation of Federal Govt.codes have no meaning to a country?
2
Sanders has been on the progressive side of things since he has been in politics. He never resorts to mud slinging either. None of the other politicians on the stage have the level of integrity that Mr.Sanders has.
1
Sanders did not say it did not matter, Sanders said that the American public is tired of hearing about it. And we are. We are tired of the media circus and we want the issues - the substance - to be discussed.
Sanders has plenty of plans and has never flip flopped. I guess we must of watched two different debates.
Sanders has plenty of plans and has never flip flopped. I guess we must of watched two different debates.
Hillary did what she had to do, no real gaffs. But I see a lot of comments on here confidently declaring that she is now somehow unstoppable...she can beat ANY opponent, Republican or Democrat. Really? What I gather from these comments is not so much a sense of confidence but a sense of relief over what might have been a career ending debate. Given her problems she had to do well to survive. Thats a far cry from being unstoppable. Its easy to look good against opponents who don't challenge you and its hard to even call what happened last night a debate. She clearly won't get that same kind of kit glove treatment in a general election .
6
Well, sure, the republicans will savage whoever they run against, that's a given, and they have no hesitation to hurl invective, invent puerile mockeries, insinuate and claim malfeasances of all kinds, and so forth. We've seen it for many years now, of course. It's what they do. But Hillary has been standing firm in front of their sneers and slurs for decades, and she's able to handle it. (Btw, it's "kid glove", after the young goat whose soft skin was used to make it. But Hillary is no kid, make no mistake, nor should she be.)
4
Any politician that is actually publically willing to refer to Obama as “a great moral leader on racial issues," is either blatantly lying or flat-out delusional. Most likely both. While in fact the U.S. has not been anywhere near as racially divided as it is today since the time of the Civil War.
Hillary's grasp of reality is far from secure. Same as anyone who actually believes a word out of her mouth.
Hillary's grasp of reality is far from secure. Same as anyone who actually believes a word out of her mouth.
7
I suppose the occupants of the overcrowded red clown bus have a firm grip on reality like the earth is 6K years old and there is no such thing as climate change.
1
Or that it's been 10 years since a hurricane hit the US or that there has been zero change in the Earth's temperature in the past 18 years.
Actually there's only one clown bus being used throughout this political season, and Hillary's navigating it, since she admittedly has not driven herself over the past 20+ years. Nevertheless, she's the self-proclaimed savior of the middle-class. If you can even say that without laughing, there's something very wrong with you.
And incidentally, the climate did change today, everywhere. Unfortunately, the earth's surface temperatures haven't changed noticeably over the past 18+ years. Regardless of what you "believe," the factual data indicates otherwise. But never let the facts get in the way of your failing agenda.
Just the concept that someone is truly ignorant enough to actually attempt to defend Obama's unquestionable racial decisiveness is almost beyond human conception. For such people, up is down, and left is right and their personal delusions actually are their personal reality.
With that being said, Hillary really is a the type of "dishonest and untrustworthy" person the country needs right now. If nothing else, she's the exact opposite of wholly "dishonest and untrustworthy" person we've had to suffer through for the past 7-years.
And incidentally, the climate did change today, everywhere. Unfortunately, the earth's surface temperatures haven't changed noticeably over the past 18+ years. Regardless of what you "believe," the factual data indicates otherwise. But never let the facts get in the way of your failing agenda.
Just the concept that someone is truly ignorant enough to actually attempt to defend Obama's unquestionable racial decisiveness is almost beyond human conception. For such people, up is down, and left is right and their personal delusions actually are their personal reality.
With that being said, Hillary really is a the type of "dishonest and untrustworthy" person the country needs right now. If nothing else, she's the exact opposite of wholly "dishonest and untrustworthy" person we've had to suffer through for the past 7-years.
Please Joe - don't run. You don't need to do this to yourself. You're too good a man to have to put yourself through this. This is in no way meant to denigrate Hillary or Bernie - but this is not your pulpit Joe. I'm now clear, after supporting and funding Bernie, that Hillary is the right choice for us. As much as I more agree with Bernie on the issues (save the guns), a 70+ year old, self-declared Socialist can't win, and if in some bizarre alternate universe, couldn't govern. Think it was hard for Obama? Bernie would get not an inch from the Republicans. Hillary knows the score. I think she could go from where Barack leaves us and stand on the shoulders of his amazing accomplishments (someone remind me - what did GWB accomplish in his 8 years??). I'm now all in for HRC.
9
You think congress wants to compromise with her? What bizarre alternate universe do you live in? Either candidate if elected would have an incredibly tough time getting legislation passed unless the house went back to a democrat or even moderate republican majority. No one can negotiate with two year olds throwing temper tantrums.
I'm still not a fan of Ms. Clinton! I don't trust her. She is beholdent to special interests. She is challenged by the truth. Her ambition drives her and not the desire to help Americans. She needs to retire with Bill.
7
Why are so many intelligent people willing to give her a pass on honesty and integrity? If you think for one second any of us would give the outsized governor from NJ that same pass on "Bridgegate," if he ever had a real shot, you would be wrong.
12
Joe Biden is a deeply good man. Barring any cataclysmic revelations about the emails, he can end his political career on a high note and go on to philanthropic work and spend time with his family.
As a flagging Hillary supporter who was pretty discouraged after this summer of viciousness, Hillary is back, she's poised, and she's proven why she is most competent and deserving.
As a flagging Hillary supporter who was pretty discouraged after this summer of viciousness, Hillary is back, she's poised, and she's proven why she is most competent and deserving.
6
Hillary was relaxed, confident, professional, informed, gracious and most importantly, funny! I know the point is not to be funny, but she was so enjoyable to watch, with an easy laugh, especially in the face of ridiculous maneuvering from the right wing against her. I first heard Hillary speak as First Lady at the US Embassy in Paraguay, in an address to Peace Corps Volunteers, Fulbright Scholars and embassy personnel. At that time, in 1995, I was put off by her stilted, calculating style of speech. This debate revealed the true Hillary, a really great person who holds great promise for a productive presidency. I really appreciated the fact that she proudly and unflinchingly declares herself to be progressive, but one who likes to get things done. The debate, overall, was far superior to anything the Republicans have put together so far. I think Hillary could take on any of the contenders from the other side. The fact that Hillary would be the first female president is not irrelevant. As she memorably observed, it is hard to imagine more of an outsider in the White House.
15
"Hillary is the nominee."
You just figured that out?
That's been obvious for well over a year now. Sanders may nudge her to the left a bit -- he's already pushed her to take a position on the Keystone pipeline and the TPP, in each case changing her earlier ambiguous "yes" into a firm "no" -- but that's all Sanders can accomplish. The chances of him actually getting the nomination are, and always have been, zero.
You just figured that out?
That's been obvious for well over a year now. Sanders may nudge her to the left a bit -- he's already pushed her to take a position on the Keystone pipeline and the TPP, in each case changing her earlier ambiguous "yes" into a firm "no" -- but that's all Sanders can accomplish. The chances of him actually getting the nomination are, and always have been, zero.
1
Did you happen to Google the results of the live poll CNN conducted during the debate? Sanders had over 83% of the votes, Hilary had 13%.
Hillary hit a grand slam home run. Biden doesn't need to pinch hit. He waited too long, which means that he really didn't want it.
Hillary WANTS IT.
Go for it, Hil. I wasn't in her corner fullly until last night.
Hillary WANTS IT.
Go for it, Hil. I wasn't in her corner fullly until last night.
14
CLINTON/SANDERS 2016! What a team!!
9
I like Bernie Sanders, but his acolytes don't seem to get that he is Jewish (even if he, like me is a very secular Jew!), proclaims himself to be a "democratic socialist" in a country where millions equate socialism/Communism with totalitarianism, and where millions of $$$ are available for the Faux News crowd to twist all of this for the shopping convenience of their followers.
I don't love Hillary. But she is electable, Benghazi and all, and she is a politician who can play the sort of hardball this election will require to get past Ailes,Koch and the rest of the big money families.
But I am most grateful to Bernie Sanders for pushing her to be the best possible candidate!
I don't love Hillary. But she is electable, Benghazi and all, and she is a politician who can play the sort of hardball this election will require to get past Ailes,Koch and the rest of the big money families.
But I am most grateful to Bernie Sanders for pushing her to be the best possible candidate!
24
Please, the Cold War ended decades ago. The younger generation which is increasingly firmly for Sanders, does not respond to the Commie Scare baloney and I say good for them.
6
The use of the word "commie" tells me that you are from the same era as me and people from our era vote in much higher proportion than the younger generation.
2
socialism to communism is akin to Christianity to Catholicism
1
Why is the media, and distressingly the Times, so interested in presenting this as a "fight"--or "Fight Night at Las Vegas"? What was most evident was a group of adults having a thoughtful discussion, with some differences of practical prospects, about important issues, in which the lives and health of millions are in the balance. There was so little playground fighting, and so much serious and respectful discussion. that may not make fetching headline copy for the Times, but it sure is a distinction from the Republican sideshows
18
I thought Sanders' line, and position, about Clinton's emails would get more positive attention today than I've seen. Had the roles been reversed, I wonder what we would be seeing today in the coverage.
2
If it wasn't for the FBI investigation, I'd agree, Hillary should win.
Journalists should get the Shame Award for Opportunistic Promotion of a Non-Event for their coverage of the absurd Biden non-candidacy. He would never have been a serious candidate against HC, even if the Bern were out of the picture, and certainly not with him in the picture. If journalists wonder why they are members of one of the least respected (and falling) professions, go no further than this annoying non-story.
8
Melanie asks:
"Why do we have to keep hearing that if women are strong and relatively fearless, that they are therefore "aggressive". It's so annoying and so 20th century."
There's a cliche in the law biz known as a "straw man argument." You present an argument that nobody's actually making, and then you easily knock it down. That's what Melanie's doing here. Nobody's faulting Hillary for being "aggressive." Melanie just made that up.
"Why do we have to keep hearing that if women are strong and relatively fearless, that they are therefore "aggressive". It's so annoying and so 20th century."
There's a cliche in the law biz known as a "straw man argument." You present an argument that nobody's actually making, and then you easily knock it down. That's what Melanie's doing here. Nobody's faulting Hillary for being "aggressive." Melanie just made that up.
"With crisp answers to nearly every question, an aggressiveness her rivals did not seem ready for and a level of confidence that has often been obscured over months of questions about her use of a private email as secretary of state, Mrs. Clinton sent an unmistakable message to Mr. Biden and to her party."
Jonathan Martin NY Times Oct. 14, 2015
Jonathan Martin NY Times Oct. 14, 2015
2
More straw man arguments from melanie. The candidates were surprised by Clinton's aggressive debating approach most likely because she isn't usually so aggressive in debates. Where does that quote say that this surprise factor originated in Hillary being a woman? That's something that you, melanie, are concluding, when in fact there is zero evidence for Hillary's gender being the key factor here.
1
I do not agree with your columnist's assessment of Clinton as "debate winner". In any case an openly opinionated column was out of order.
19
I don't care who "won" or who "lost" this debate. I didn't even watch it. Whichever of them gets the call will get my vote and maybe a few bucks as well. Anything to keep any of the Republicans from gaining the White House.
5
Like many others, I admire Sen. Sanders' positions on protecting and advancing the interests of the 99.9% of us who are not billionaires. Unlike many others, I don't think he's better presidential material than Sec. Clinton is. I've been worried lately that the relentless Republican Hillary-bashing is corroding her chances, but her command of both the issues and the atmospherics of last night's debate reassured me of her superiority and stamina in this campaign. Now I just hope she can sustain that level of excellence all the way to the White House.
6
I'm an avid and frequent reader of the NYTimes yet I'm disgusted by its extremely biased reporting on this debate and the entire Democratic primary race. The Times has continued to dismiss and ignore Sanders, his rapidly increasing support, and his crucial message, and the paper has fallen into the vicious cycle of confirmation bias so generously employed by Fox News and similar organizations.
When even the most objective media joins establishment politicians in reaffirming their control, it is an increasingly alarming sign that democracy in America is deteriorating.
When even the most objective media joins establishment politicians in reaffirming their control, it is an increasingly alarming sign that democracy in America is deteriorating.
48
You should run for president, I applaud you sir.
Some of the 2016 candidates for President are intelligent and well-meaning. But one truth emerged from the Democrat's debate in Las Vegas. There is only one candidate who acts, speaks and thinks as a President should - with grace, determination, knowledge and confidence. That candidate is clearly Hillary Clinton. All others don't meet that threshold. A few are not even close.
8
The GOP candidates' enemies would be the mullahs in Iran, surely, and ISIS. Maybe Putin sometimes and the debt problem, if a financial deal could be considered an ''enemy.''
Hillary Clinton counts tens of MILLIONS of American citizens as HER enemies. ''The Republicans,'' she answered.
So much for that wacky old song-and-dance about being president of ALL the people, I guess.
Smart is nice, but not smart, vindictive, malicious, and greedy enough to pry $2 billion out of other people's hands. Why elect someone with a twenty-year old enemies list?
Hillary Clinton counts tens of MILLIONS of American citizens as HER enemies. ''The Republicans,'' she answered.
So much for that wacky old song-and-dance about being president of ALL the people, I guess.
Smart is nice, but not smart, vindictive, malicious, and greedy enough to pry $2 billion out of other people's hands. Why elect someone with a twenty-year old enemies list?
3
Off-topic, maybe, but I'll go for it: everyone was great and I was heartened by the high level of discourse. But was I the only one that watched Sen. Chaffee and had flashbacks of Adm. Jim Stockdale in 1992 -- "who am I and why am I here"?
7
I was most perplexed by Sanders. Maybe it's a matter of expectations, but he seemed to offer me very little beyond one-note attacks on Wall Street -- recycled portions of his stump speech. Yes, those were delivered with passion. But he seemed woefully unprepared on other issues, unable to exhibit the same passion and command on other domestic issues or foreign policy. I was especially shocked that he could not deal better with the gun control issue. With any good preparation, he must have known that topic was coming.
5
Hillary was wonderful as she always is. Nothing new here. She knows the issues and the world player's. She's tough as nails and can take on anyone
10
She did well, and is the most knowledgeable and experienced of any candidate in either party. But I wish there was a voice defending the TPP and it great virtues. Maybe Biden can be that voice even if he doesn't run. And, certainly, a Republican challenger will not be as easy on her as the people last night.
1
Hillary still does not get it: honesty, credibility, a substantive record and a vision for America matter to voters -- even if a curt 'no' will suffice when dealing with the base. How she has ignored the very recent history (Romney 2012) of what happens to unlikable candidates is beyond me; after so many years in public life one would think that she would understand this truism of politics. Ignoring Glass-Steagall, the issue of her emails, her vote on Iraq and her terrible record with the president on forgein policy, I guess she had a decent night. She still loses to all of the highest polling Republicans (save Trump) in all of the match-up polls I have seen on FOX, NBC/WSJ, etc. The Democrats run the very serious risk of pitting a seriously battered candidate against whichever GOP candidate emerges after Trump falls. What a weird 2016 this is.
6
The debate changed my mind. I'd been for O'Malley, then Clinton. Now, I'm solidly for Clinton. If Bernie Sanders had a few more e-mail moments, he could've opened my mind. After all, I voted for Jesse Jackson and Dennis Kucinich.
Clinton proved that she's benefitted from a level of experience matched by no other President, as First Lady, Senator and Secretary of State. She's definitely the one.
Clinton proved that she's benefitted from a level of experience matched by no other President, as First Lady, Senator and Secretary of State. She's definitely the one.
13
Martin O'Malley and Lincoln Chafee are too very nice guys who should drop out of the race. Those guys annoyingly pleasant and friendly amateurs. They are making things TOO pleasant and TOO easy for Hillary.
5
What was concerns me about the debates generally -- and the Democratic party's debates, in particular -- is the fact that they are adjudicated by pundits whose comments tend to focus, not on the merits of each candidate's arguments, but, rather, on how well each candidate comports himself or herself. This is doing the country a great deal of damage.
24
Why do we have to keep hearing that if women are strong and relatively fearless, that they are therefore "aggressive". It's so annoying and so 20th century.
12
Most likely Donald or Hillary or Jeb will get elected and will continue the decline of America into more debt, costly military entanglements, destruction of the middle class, seething masses of unemployed poor people--until we get leadership to turn it around. Right now Bernie is my only hope.
8
This whole "who won the debate" perspective is ridiculous. Instead this was an opportunity for folks to see the Democratic candidates, and all had some appeal. At the very least, they all looked a whole lot better than the Republicans. But I don't need pundits and supporters telling me how to interpret what I saw. I'm actually capable of doing that myself.
32
I would say the first of many big nights for Ms. Clinton. I don't see the Republicans having a real contender. The Democrats have two with Bernie Sanders. I can't see Joe Biden throwing his hat into the ring. Hilary is ready for this campaign.
4
Biden was a media creation that ginned up people. Now you can let that dog lie. There are viable candidates running for President on the Dem ticket.
3
I loved Hillary's variation in answers: The frustration with the Republicans using Government to curtail women's rights and browbeat Planned Parenthood while running down Government when it comes to health care and social security. She had really good, multi point plans from finance reform, immigration, higher education to handling Putin in Syria. At one point, asked if she had anything to rejoin, she said "No." That showed command and strength. You could see her listening to the other candidates, taking it all in and then, integrating her responses with great effect. Her outfit was also beautifully crafted, the most elegant suit I have ever seen her wear.
8
I agree with you Christine but the President's race is not a fashion show and Ms. Rodham Clinton's hair and clothes choice should not be part of the equation. She is simply the MOST QUALIFIED CANDIDATE to be the next President of the United States and she will do an excellent job.
2
I am glad Hilary looks 20 years younger. My guess is that was a sufficient concern they chose to resolve it. However, as well as she did or didn't do that still doesn't address the poll that showed she would lose to any of the republican candidates. As far as chilling Joe Biden's chances, not one bit. Everybody, even republicans, like Joe. He's an honorable man and he is one of the last few Statesman we seem to have. I see none on the right.
As for the argument he will spoil Hilary's chance in the sun... how about this country's chance in the sun. Regardless of the reasons why, McConnell's gaff said it all, at any cost end Obama's chance to shine as President. In so doing, this country took a huge hit.
The poll that shows most people feel this country is heading in the wrong direction, I bet they didn't add a question on how do you feel about the House of Representatives to add perspective as to why. In any event, my greatest fear of a Hilary presidency is the right will be equally energized to block any and everything she stands for.
Do the dems really want the charge "the left has held the White House for 16 (or 12) years now and nothing was accomplished". Are people ready for WhiteWater II?
As for the argument he will spoil Hilary's chance in the sun... how about this country's chance in the sun. Regardless of the reasons why, McConnell's gaff said it all, at any cost end Obama's chance to shine as President. In so doing, this country took a huge hit.
The poll that shows most people feel this country is heading in the wrong direction, I bet they didn't add a question on how do you feel about the House of Representatives to add perspective as to why. In any event, my greatest fear of a Hilary presidency is the right will be equally energized to block any and everything she stands for.
Do the dems really want the charge "the left has held the White House for 16 (or 12) years now and nothing was accomplished". Are people ready for WhiteWater II?
1
To call these CNN entertainments "debates" is absurd. With both the Republican and last night's show, the clear objective was to pummel the leading candidate with as many potentially embarrassing questions as possible. This "format" wears thin quickly and does not serve the voting public.
Also, the one candidate with a real "root cause" issue, Lawrence Lessig, was not even allowed to participate! It's not as if there weren't enough spaces available! This was an inexcusable insult by CNN, always more interested in ratings than substance.
If this is the only forum for hearing candidates' positions on the issues, we are indeed being shut out of what was once a representative republic's primary focus: equal time for all points of view.
Also, the one candidate with a real "root cause" issue, Lawrence Lessig, was not even allowed to participate! It's not as if there weren't enough spaces available! This was an inexcusable insult by CNN, always more interested in ratings than substance.
If this is the only forum for hearing candidates' positions on the issues, we are indeed being shut out of what was once a representative republic's primary focus: equal time for all points of view.
3
Biden may have been right about his idea of partitioning Iraq into 3.
That could have prevented the rise of ISIS, by coopting Iraqi Sunni allegiance to radicalism, if a US friendly Iraqi Sunni government were maintained in that proposed region.
Of course the Shiite region would have been pulled further into the orbit of Iran, but that is inevitable anyway, since the Iraq of today is currently Shiite dominated -- thanks to the neocons & GWBush's ill conceived invasion.
That could have prevented the rise of ISIS, by coopting Iraqi Sunni allegiance to radicalism, if a US friendly Iraqi Sunni government were maintained in that proposed region.
Of course the Shiite region would have been pulled further into the orbit of Iran, but that is inevitable anyway, since the Iraq of today is currently Shiite dominated -- thanks to the neocons & GWBush's ill conceived invasion.
4
People are wary after getting fooled by Obama who promised a progressive agenda and delivered a corporate and neocon and administration with a healthcare plan written by insurance companies and a continued "war on terror".
Clinton has shown by her recent conversions to be against the Keystone Pipeline and the TPP that she is not to be trusted. She gave a typical Republican response to the question on whether she is a capitalist. She sounded like a Republican extolling the virtues of small business when they are actually beholden to large corporations.
Then there was the bizarre response to the question on who were her enemies. She said that they were the NRA, insurance and pharmaceutical companies, Iran and the Republicans. Why is Iran her enemy? Have they ever harmed the US? It sounds like she is on the bandwagon of demonizing the victim to justify the next US attack.
Clinton has shown by her recent conversions to be against the Keystone Pipeline and the TPP that she is not to be trusted. She gave a typical Republican response to the question on whether she is a capitalist. She sounded like a Republican extolling the virtues of small business when they are actually beholden to large corporations.
Then there was the bizarre response to the question on who were her enemies. She said that they were the NRA, insurance and pharmaceutical companies, Iran and the Republicans. Why is Iran her enemy? Have they ever harmed the US? It sounds like she is on the bandwagon of demonizing the victim to justify the next US attack.
7
Hillary should get an academy award for her performance last night. It was clearly rehearsed and based on the feedback from her recent focus group.
It clearly demonstrates her lack of integrity and honesty. Something we were already aware of after Benghazi and her handling of classified emails.
It clearly demonstrates her lack of integrity and honesty. Something we were already aware of after Benghazi and her handling of classified emails.
9
Yeah. It was painful to see her do so well after having clearly done so much research and work so as to appear more intelligent and articulate than she really is. Thank God Trump doesn't follow her tactics! Can you imagine how awful it would be to hear him finally make sense?
Ms. Hillary Rodham Clinton is the MOST QUALIFIED CANDIDATE to be the next President of the United States of America. As Senator Sanders said, WE are sick and tired of hearing the sophomoric drivel about e-mails when there are dangerously destructive forces attacking democracy in America. What we are concerned about, and want action on, are: Serious financial and corporate reform, Serious gun regulation, Serious changes to the tax code to recoup the money stolen by the top 1% global financial elite over the past 40+ years, Serious reform to our education systems to provide excellent education for all Americans, Serious infrastructure improvements, Serious reining in of BIG pharma and the BILLIONS of $$$ they are gouging us for in a life-to-death struggle, Serious unemployment - particularly of youth, Serious world problems. THOSE are the things Americans want OUR next President to address and be prepared to deal with and Ms. Hillary Rodham Clinton is the person to do that, along with Strong Vice President Bernie Sanders. CLINTON/SANDERS 2016"! What a team!!! What a country we will be again when civility, honor, common sense, safety and financial equity are restored in America. VOTE FOR CHANGE in every election up to and including the Presidential Election on November 8, 2016.
1
but none of those things you want -- financial reform, repealing the second amendment, etc. would come to pass under a Clinton Administration. The chief barrier will likely be those "sophomoric emails" which demonstrate the type of duplicitous, crooked and unprofessional leadership that woman would bring to Washington. I don't think she's electable (her head-to-head match-ups with GOP candidates in the polls reflects that), and she couldn't govern effectively if elected.
3
Bernie Sanders won the debate yesterday night.
He wants to repeal TPP, provide affordable college education and implement universal healthcare for all Americans.
Yes, we have something to learn from the Scandinavian countries
Additionally, Bernie is a man I respect because he does not engage in mudslinging of his opponents.
We, the everyday Americans can trust only Bernie Sanders and Green Party.
Because they work with the common people and do not engage in Super PACs or dealing with billionaires.
He wants to repeal TPP, provide affordable college education and implement universal healthcare for all Americans.
Yes, we have something to learn from the Scandinavian countries
Additionally, Bernie is a man I respect because he does not engage in mudslinging of his opponents.
We, the everyday Americans can trust only Bernie Sanders and Green Party.
Because they work with the common people and do not engage in Super PACs or dealing with billionaires.
194
Sanders is not associated with the Green Party. Jill Stein is. It's too bad you put that in your remark, as it earned you a NYT pick probably because the NYT wants people to associate Bernie with the unelectable (the Greens).
Bernie is not associated with the Green Party.
Bernie is not associated with the Green Party.
2
No candidate is unelectable, that fact that you think that is a sure sign of group think. Sanders will win.
1
I like Sanders quite a bit, but trust the Green Party? I seem to remember a little something about Ralph Nader, Green Party candidate, splitting the votes away from Gore and giving us good ol' G.W. Bush. After 9/11, 2 wars, trillions in national debt, and the Great Recession, how'd that work out? Though I appreciate their espoused values, I will certainly never trust the Green Party again -- they facilitated far more destruction than I think they've ever prevented.
1
It's amazing to see people acting surprised that Hillary Clinton -- intelligent, well-spoken, law school grad, policy wonk, former First Lady, former Senator from NY, and former Secretary of State -- made a very effective presentation at the first debate.
Seriously -- it's an insult to her to pretend that it is a surprise that she did well. It's just one more way that men marginalize women and can't fathom a truly accomplished smart woman upstaging all of the men who were on stage with her as well as the rodeo clowns -- male and female - running on the GOP side.
Seriously -- it's an insult to her to pretend that it is a surprise that she did well. It's just one more way that men marginalize women and can't fathom a truly accomplished smart woman upstaging all of the men who were on stage with her as well as the rodeo clowns -- male and female - running on the GOP side.
17
You said, ''accomplished.''
Please list them. I'll come back and see.
HRC herself was aked on camera recently and could think of NOTHING.
Help her out.
Please list them. I'll come back and see.
HRC herself was aked on camera recently and could think of NOTHING.
Help her out.
1
Here are two obvious accomplishments:
1. Secretary of State
2. New York Senator
1. Secretary of State
2. New York Senator
1
Being somebody's wife or having a name means absolutlely nothing. She has had years od opportunities to actually help the country. But what has this woman actually done? Be the 53rd vote on the Brady bill?
3
Hillary "won" only because the corporate media - which Bernie rightfully pointed out as a major factor in what ails this country - has deemed it so. She was so phony and scripted that it's difficult to understand how she is held in such high esteem until one realizes that she has billions of dollars floating beneath her. All of the praise heaped upon her just dismisses the major fact that she voted to authorize the use of military force in Iraq. As Lincoln Chaffee pointed out, this one vote should disqualify her as a serious candidate.
Hillary appears to want to be president out of sheer ambition and will say just about anything to get there. Bernie wants to be president because he is committed to helping the least among us. Go Bernie!
Hillary appears to want to be president out of sheer ambition and will say just about anything to get there. Bernie wants to be president because he is committed to helping the least among us. Go Bernie!
38
"Mrs. Clinton’s articulation of her brand of mainstream liberalism."
It's sad to see Americans consider Clinton as a liberal. I turned off the "debate" after they started bashing Putin. They're all obviously bought and paid for. The debates are just an exercise in media control and manipulation.
It's sad to see Americans consider Clinton as a liberal. I turned off the "debate" after they started bashing Putin. They're all obviously bought and paid for. The debates are just an exercise in media control and manipulation.
7
Hillary is the nominee.
The Democratic Party must focus on three things:
1. Registering people to vote. Either volunteer or donate to organisations that help voters register, especially in swing states.
2. Raising cash. The opposition comes armed with a billion dollars to lie and abuses taxpayer dollars for partisan hackery. Unfortunately some swing voters may be swayed by misleading RNC ads. The DNC needs enough firepower to at least neutralise the RNC.
3. Turning out the vote on election day. Vital to do this as all is lost if people do not vote. If you can vote early, do so and volunteer your time to help elderly people to the polls, cover a colleague so they can vote, etc.
The Democratic Party must focus on three things:
1. Registering people to vote. Either volunteer or donate to organisations that help voters register, especially in swing states.
2. Raising cash. The opposition comes armed with a billion dollars to lie and abuses taxpayer dollars for partisan hackery. Unfortunately some swing voters may be swayed by misleading RNC ads. The DNC needs enough firepower to at least neutralise the RNC.
3. Turning out the vote on election day. Vital to do this as all is lost if people do not vote. If you can vote early, do so and volunteer your time to help elderly people to the polls, cover a colleague so they can vote, etc.
7
Hillary is the nominee, huh?
Well, let's see what the FBI has to say about that.
Well, let's see what the FBI has to say about that.
3
Add to you list:
4. Convincing people to erase facts from their minds about Clinton's outright lies and position reversals on gay marriage, the Trans Pacific Trade Pact, approving the Iran nuclear deal, the trans-continental oil pipeline, going to war in Iraq, and erasing confidential government e-mails from her illegal personal server at her home. Oh, and the sudden appearance of those pesky Rose Law Firm bulling records on a desk in the White House a year after they were subpoenaed, and how she made $100,000 in a year by investing $1000 in cattle futures.
Otherwise, she's a model Democrat candidate.
4. Convincing people to erase facts from their minds about Clinton's outright lies and position reversals on gay marriage, the Trans Pacific Trade Pact, approving the Iran nuclear deal, the trans-continental oil pipeline, going to war in Iraq, and erasing confidential government e-mails from her illegal personal server at her home. Oh, and the sudden appearance of those pesky Rose Law Firm bulling records on a desk in the White House a year after they were subpoenaed, and how she made $100,000 in a year by investing $1000 in cattle futures.
Otherwise, she's a model Democrat candidate.
1
People who don't register to vote either don't care, or they're too ignorant of the issues to make an intelligent choice. It doesn't speak well for a party to insist that getting the ignorant and the indifferent to vote represents their best chance of winning.
I had a thought vis a vis Biden quite different from that of the "Democratic strategists" quoted in the article.
Rather than being cowed, he might be emboldened to enter the race given the lackluster performance of Webb, O'Malley, and Chaffee one the one hand and the "conventional wisdom" that a self-declared socialist can never win the nomination on the other.
If Biden enters it will instantly become a Hillary-Joe match-up. Biden also offers a much more viable alternative to Dems uneasy about dynasties in the Oval Office than the others on the debate stage. It's a long way to November 2016 and much can happen to blunt any momentum Clinton picked up in the debate.
Rather than being cowed, he might be emboldened to enter the race given the lackluster performance of Webb, O'Malley, and Chaffee one the one hand and the "conventional wisdom" that a self-declared socialist can never win the nomination on the other.
If Biden enters it will instantly become a Hillary-Joe match-up. Biden also offers a much more viable alternative to Dems uneasy about dynasties in the Oval Office than the others on the debate stage. It's a long way to November 2016 and much can happen to blunt any momentum Clinton picked up in the debate.
35
Can we please move beyond lumping Clinton into the dynasty category? Dynasties involve generations--like the Bush family--not first generation politicians, even if, like the Clinton's, first generation politicians are married to one another.
1
Samcro, Webb was completely out of place there to begin with, he's a Republican in Democratic clothing.
As a viewer and a voter, I was proud to watch Hillary Clinton's command of the issues and her Presidential demeanor. I also admired all of the candidates for their professional and cordial interactions. Finally, a political discourse worthwhile.
1
Mrs. Clinton gets a high score for debating points but I did not notice one policy proposal that would transform the downward trajectory of the middle class. She will be supported by the same oligarchs who are now running off with the cookies.
12
While most Democrats are quite fond of Joe Biden - a sincere and good person - if he got into the race to challenge Hillary, he'd be on the wrong side of history. If he refrains, he'll be welcome in Democratic circles - and just about anywhere - for a long time to come.
Bernie won by a long shot.... but you'll never hear it from the established media. They are scared to death of a Bernie administration.
13
Who are all these people entreating Joe Biden to enter the race? I am a Democrat and have yet to meet one in the wild. Are they all media personalities interviewing each other? Is it the chat of green rooms, and planted by Republicans? I like VP Biden tremendously, but come on! Is this a figment of Andrea Mitchell Greenspan's imagination? Did the idea arise on Morning Joe one day when they'd had too much caffeine?
9
There are real Democrats across the nation preparing for a Biden campaign, should he enter the race. I, for one, believe Hillary to be a fundamentally weak candidate, unlikely to win unless the Republicans nominate a clown, which, given the stakes, they are unlikely to do. I greatly fear a solidly right wing conservative Supreme Court for a generation should the Dems nominate Hillary.
1
Grace, I'm from your neck of the woods and I'd love to see Biden run. Alas, I fear he has waited too long.
What will Biden bring to the table? I hope more than a slew of empty promises to provide free services to Americans who would really prefer the opportunity to earn a good living.
Amazing that the Democratic Party has devolved from the Kennedy era, when people embraced his admonition to "ask not what my country can do for me, but what can I do for my country..."
Bernie couldn't promise enough free stuff last night. Never once did he ask for anything from Americans, other than their vote. Hillary's modest suggestion that a college education cannot be free, but people should be given the opportunity to work for it fell flat as a pancake. It should have been the applause line of the night. All she asked for was a ten hour a week commitment to work study in exchange for college tuition. Independents cheered all over America, but this common sense suggestion was drowned out by all the pie-in the-sky promises.
If Biden runs I hope that he can get bring us all back down to reality.
Amazing that the Democratic Party has devolved from the Kennedy era, when people embraced his admonition to "ask not what my country can do for me, but what can I do for my country..."
Bernie couldn't promise enough free stuff last night. Never once did he ask for anything from Americans, other than their vote. Hillary's modest suggestion that a college education cannot be free, but people should be given the opportunity to work for it fell flat as a pancake. It should have been the applause line of the night. All she asked for was a ten hour a week commitment to work study in exchange for college tuition. Independents cheered all over America, but this common sense suggestion was drowned out by all the pie-in the-sky promises.
If Biden runs I hope that he can get bring us all back down to reality.
1
A few observations:
1. There is almost only ONE universal conclusion that can credibly be drawn about last night: Every single person that watched has a different perception of who won.
2. Taking the statistical sample size of the five people I spoke with since last night, two of the five mentioned Jim Webb. That alone is not indicative of squat--but it does sort of suggest that Webb gained a little traction.
3. Regardless of who did what to whom, the contrast drawn beteween the Dems and the Reps was crystal clear. The Democrats displayed some naivete in some of the answers but that was almost welcome after the hyperbole from the other side.
4. I have not yet seen my President. No one on either side gets my vote. Joe Biden--come on in!
1. There is almost only ONE universal conclusion that can credibly be drawn about last night: Every single person that watched has a different perception of who won.
2. Taking the statistical sample size of the five people I spoke with since last night, two of the five mentioned Jim Webb. That alone is not indicative of squat--but it does sort of suggest that Webb gained a little traction.
3. Regardless of who did what to whom, the contrast drawn beteween the Dems and the Reps was crystal clear. The Democrats displayed some naivete in some of the answers but that was almost welcome after the hyperbole from the other side.
4. I have not yet seen my President. No one on either side gets my vote. Joe Biden--come on in!
2
I dont think Hilary came off so commanding at all. I just think she is the medias favorite for the Dem candidacy so they pump her up iin the papers. I thought Bernie and OMalley came off just as well. I thought Bernie was the best of all. Her attempt to explain how and why she changed her mind on certain issues was not convincing to me.
13
Plus, they just seem more honest than Ms. Clinton.
1
Yeah, Hillary's debate performance was credible. But I think that she made a tactical mistake when asked how her presidency would be different from President Barack Obama's, she said, "Being the first woman president would be quite a change from the presidents we've had, including President Obama.”
Perhaps she's moving closer to Obama in order to discourage Biden from entering the race. But Obama's policies and all those Goldman Sachs people that he appointed to his administration have been disastrous for the middle class.
Bernie's appeal was primarily to the 99% of us and the decline of the middle class which didn't leave much room for the other candidates to challenge him on this.
Perhaps she's moving closer to Obama in order to discourage Biden from entering the race. But Obama's policies and all those Goldman Sachs people that he appointed to his administration have been disastrous for the middle class.
Bernie's appeal was primarily to the 99% of us and the decline of the middle class which didn't leave much room for the other candidates to challenge him on this.
31
Jim Webb was cut off and expressed his frustration and that was obvious. He will be ready in Iowa where the next debate will be held. Anderson Cooper seemed adept and determined at allotting their time. That was my impression as the evening wore on. Webb clearly expressed that frustration. The Times seems to give adulatory post debate articles for Clinton to reinforce this inevitability bandwagon. I don't buy that. She certainly has enough debate experience with President Obama in '08, Benghazi, emails, back and forth switching political stands to suit her opportunism, etc. The continual jabbing away at Webb as a pugnacious militarist is a harsh stereotype but he continually reminds us that he is not that with his responses on stage. He had reasonable and practical responses to serious political issues facing America. He refers to military experiences when they are relevant because he is the only candidate who not only served in our military but has a history connected to our national defense. I found his remark about African Americans sensitive and reassuring of his compassion for us to get along as he has had to do in all of the jobs he has held. Sanders and Clinton are career politicians and never really held real jobs of any length of time, which is another issue. Jim Webb has. Clinton and Sanders are too combative and would only create more political gridlock. Jim Webb would break up political log jams to get our country running smoother again.
44
Apparently, Chafee got approximately 9 minutes of speech time. Hillary got approximately 31 minutes, Sanders 28, while O'Malley and Webb were in the mid to low teens.
I like him too.
Though not a Sanders' partisan, I was shocked to read the NY Times 'analysis' this morning. Clinton did well, but I think Sanders was the more impressive presence, exuding a confidence and sincerity that was as genuine as it was refreshing. A polling of the CNN select audience thought the same.
I will vote for whomever is the democratic nominee, but I hardly found Clinton's performance impressive by any measure. It was simply not a disaster.
I will vote for whomever is the democratic nominee, but I hardly found Clinton's performance impressive by any measure. It was simply not a disaster.
59
"Won" - is not a way I'm thinking about the debate...between Hillary and Bernie it was a draw depending on the point of view of those watching....both were strong, the rest of the field also showed substance, although I get Jim Webb's frustration and getting less time to speak. I'm please with the direction all the Democratic candidates feel the country needs to go in.
10
She is a Wall Street and subsequently a media darling. The country is run for people like her. What happened during Bills tenure when she was going to reform the health insurance business? They were just too big and powerful and still are. What was the Glass Steagall legislation that was corrected by Bill? The public memory is short.
12
As always, carefully scripted, and well rehearsed. CNN is a non hostile crowd for her. CNN always fawns over her, and whitewashed the truth. Nothing she was asked was tough, nor would I expect her to be "tested", as she is the darling of her party and the media. She is nothing but a corrupt, and dishonest phony. We do not need to experiment with another "first" of the Democratic party in the Whitehouse.
19
After watching the Republican and Democrats debate, the single biggest conclusion I saw was this:
The contrast in the debates and the people in it was stark. Republicans discussed who should be on the 10 dollar bill. Democrats discussed the best policy choices based on facts and information. Republicans were fact-free; notoriously so in the Planned Parenthood responses. Climate change impacts came up a number of times among the Democrats, with different opinions on whether it was the most important issue facing us or not. For Republicans, climate change is ignored or dismissed with glib fact-free assertions, treating it as a joke or noting any action to address climate change is a "job-killer" despite solar already creating more jobs in this country than coal has.
The contrast could not be more stark. If you believe that the highest purpose of politics is to be a scripted reality television show, choose Republicans. If you believe that the purpose of American politics is to honor the memorable phrase in the Declaration of Independence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." chose Democrats.
The contrast in the debates and the people in it was stark. Republicans discussed who should be on the 10 dollar bill. Democrats discussed the best policy choices based on facts and information. Republicans were fact-free; notoriously so in the Planned Parenthood responses. Climate change impacts came up a number of times among the Democrats, with different opinions on whether it was the most important issue facing us or not. For Republicans, climate change is ignored or dismissed with glib fact-free assertions, treating it as a joke or noting any action to address climate change is a "job-killer" despite solar already creating more jobs in this country than coal has.
The contrast could not be more stark. If you believe that the highest purpose of politics is to be a scripted reality television show, choose Republicans. If you believe that the purpose of American politics is to honor the memorable phrase in the Declaration of Independence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." chose Democrats.
7
Hillary Clinton never stuck up for herself for many years except once when she alluded to "A vast right wing conspiracy", and then again last night, so I ask you, if she won't defend herself, why should we expect her to defend us?
Biden is most certainly in the running because he is a strong willed man. He would be a stronger leader than Clinton. You just did not see him last night so you don't know.
Biden is most certainly in the running because he is a strong willed man. He would be a stronger leader than Clinton. You just did not see him last night so you don't know.
1
I've read, oh, three pieces in the Times today about the debate, and they all sound as if they were written by a theatre reviewer or image consultant instead of a political analyst. How are we to complain of "low-information" voters when the country's leading newspaper obsesses with style over substance?
Since Hillary is the likely nominee, I was happy with her performance. She was reassuringly confident and relaxed. A lot has changed, and rapidly, since 2008 in how our society views strong women, and I don't think she has anything to prove. (The "vote for me cuz I'm a woman bit" caused my daughter, who'll be voting in her first presidential election, to groan—as a college student, she's drawn to the Bernie Sanders camp.) I was happy and stayed interested throughout a debate that showed what Democrats are about: disagreeing civilly, not demonizing opponents, and not spewing hate. I'll feel better voting for the party.
But the candidates, including Biden, should run because they feel called to leadership and have something to say about leading the country. Biden should certainly not decide because HRC performed well at a debate. It's only a debate—and apparently, if one's to judge from the Times coverage, a beauty pageant where the candidates get marks for poise and comportment, for how they deliver their ideas and not the content of those ideas.
Since Hillary is the likely nominee, I was happy with her performance. She was reassuringly confident and relaxed. A lot has changed, and rapidly, since 2008 in how our society views strong women, and I don't think she has anything to prove. (The "vote for me cuz I'm a woman bit" caused my daughter, who'll be voting in her first presidential election, to groan—as a college student, she's drawn to the Bernie Sanders camp.) I was happy and stayed interested throughout a debate that showed what Democrats are about: disagreeing civilly, not demonizing opponents, and not spewing hate. I'll feel better voting for the party.
But the candidates, including Biden, should run because they feel called to leadership and have something to say about leading the country. Biden should certainly not decide because HRC performed well at a debate. It's only a debate—and apparently, if one's to judge from the Times coverage, a beauty pageant where the candidates get marks for poise and comportment, for how they deliver their ideas and not the content of those ideas.
15
I thought both Hilary and Bernie both did extremely well, and that the entire debate with all 5 candidates had more substance and policy plans than anything from any of the GOP stage. Bernie has the advantage of passion and not being beholden to anyone, but has less experience on global and security issues and in spite of being right about the inequality issues, will scare the dickens out of some people just by using the moniker "socialist" democratic or otherwise. Hilary came prepared and polished, showed herself to be extremely qualified and ready for the job...her downside is than the right wing and the constant "witch hunts" against her have a good portion of the population and the members of Congress that "hate" her and everything she stands for, no matter how important or good for the country it might be, and it make stand in the way of her effectiveness. Mr. Webb might find a home in the Dept of Defense or similar position, and Malloy is no longer invisible. I really liked the interaction between Bernie and Hilary and think they would make a great team. He has the passion and energy...she has the experience. He would keep her honest, and she would keep him from thinking too radically.
13
Hey, dishonest? Only matters if you're a republican. Run on your record? Again, only republicans have to do that. Democrats believe in diversity, well, of looks, of course, but definitely not of thought or ideas. Hillary wants to forget about emails, and investigative committees are only political hatchet jobs when the republicans are in control. It's quite sad to me that such a seriously flawed candidate such as Hillary is even a candidate of highest office; she's a crook and her record as Sec. Of State couldn't have been worse. Watching the love fest last night must be a new low. Ideas? Right, take from others and we'll buy your vote!
4
The criticism about the e-mail can take Trump or any opponent only so far.
First of all, it seems that there was no absolute prohibition about having a private server, only that it be secure. Second after thousands of e-mails, they have found scant grounds for worry and a few items which, in retrospect, need to be classified. Third, no permanent damage has been done and the country is still standing. Finally, if this administrative error is the gravest error that a politician can commit, it offers little on which an opponent can build a candidacy. As Sanders said, with precarious unemployment, failing infrastructures, inequality of wealth, racial problems and damage to the environment, obsessing over the infringement of an administrative regulation seems indulgent.
First of all, it seems that there was no absolute prohibition about having a private server, only that it be secure. Second after thousands of e-mails, they have found scant grounds for worry and a few items which, in retrospect, need to be classified. Third, no permanent damage has been done and the country is still standing. Finally, if this administrative error is the gravest error that a politician can commit, it offers little on which an opponent can build a candidacy. As Sanders said, with precarious unemployment, failing infrastructures, inequality of wealth, racial problems and damage to the environment, obsessing over the infringement of an administrative regulation seems indulgent.
10
Here is what the emails is about. Four dead Americans. Hillary said she knew nothing of a request for more security in Libya. Then she blamed the death of four Americans on a video. She was so involved with the demise of Qaddafi but was still kept out of the loop in a request for more security for our embassies. That does not sound possible. She said the US was pressured by Europe to take out Qaddafi but why was Europe so concerned about Qaddafi when they couldn't care less about anything else going on in the Middle East. She also had a civilian who could not work for the government giving her advice on what to do in Libya. I think the woman is up to no good for the US.
5
April 1983, in Beirut a bombing at the US Embassy left 63 dead, 17 Americans. October 1983, 299 American and French armed forces are killed in a suicide bomb. Investigations last 6 months, suggestions and changes were made. End of investigation. All under Saint Ronny.
You and the rest of the world knows this is a political witch hunt. The Congressional committee will end up looking like fools.
You and the rest of the world knows this is a political witch hunt. The Congressional committee will end up looking like fools.
3
I've donated to Sanders, and will vote democrat no matter what. Keep in mind that Sanders will fully and forcefully endorse & campaign for Clinton if she gets the nomination.
6
Becoming a President is not a show. It is having new ideas to address problems here and abroad. The former Secretary unfortunately has a shallow record both domestically and in foreign policy. In domestic area, she changes her direction with wind. I cannot forget she has repeatedly received $200,000 fee from Wall Street for one hour of speech! In foreign policy even she cannot name a single notable achievement per her interview with the NYT columnist.
I believe she has a unique asset. This is married to President Clinton who is a good bright man. Yet, in this country we do not have a kingdom. I am opposed to her candidacy to the same extent I am opposed to the third Bush.
I believe she has a unique asset. This is married to President Clinton who is a good bright man. Yet, in this country we do not have a kingdom. I am opposed to her candidacy to the same extent I am opposed to the third Bush.
10
So it's over after just one debate? Really? This Independent was not moved nor impressed and will not be drinking the Clinton Kool-Aid. She will never get my vote.
27
You might not have been impressed but I certainly was. Bernie was the cranky socialist and the Republicans daily add another demographic category to their list of people they don't like. I'm looking forward to Hillary's first term.
Bernie pointed out the nexus between the politicians, the lobbyists and the corporate media pretty clearly last night.
If anybody doubts that the media is in on this, you just need to read the coverage of the debates last night as in this piece, and also the coverage of the latest Palestinian uprising in occupied Jerusalem.
If anybody doubts that the media is in on this, you just need to read the coverage of the debates last night as in this piece, and also the coverage of the latest Palestinian uprising in occupied Jerusalem.
32
As much as I like Bernie's policy ideas regarding the economy, infrastructure, and social justice, I simply cannot imagine him as Commander in Chief and I am unclear as to his foreign policy positions. And of all policy areas, foreign affairs is the one where a president really has the most influence. All other areas are dependent on a functioning, competent Congress, which a president cannot create.
3
Mr. Biden had to see what America saw: that there are three toweringly intelligent, immensely qualified candidates for president of the United States: Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton, and Martin O'Malley. The party doesn't need Joe Biden to step in. Clearly, he is terribly conflicted about running. Now it is clear that the voters don't need him to step up.
Biden won't run. After last night, it's very clear.
Biden won't run. After last night, it's very clear.
7
Hillary was the most hated democrat for the Republicans before Obama came around. The merits of that hate aside, if anybody thinks the Republicans controlled from the far right will do any business with Hillary, they are on the wrong planet.
Bernie's agenda might not fly in the middle or in Congress, but Hillary is not the one to bring the country together.
Bernie's agenda might not fly in the middle or in Congress, but Hillary is not the one to bring the country together.
5
Republicans are on a mission to nominate some angry bigot. If they do that be prepared for the voters to teach them a lesson they won't recover from.
1
Anyone watching this debate except Clinton followers thought Sanders won. He even appeared diplomatic when asked about the one question that clearly would have embarrassed Clinton. But the mainstream media is INTENT on pushing either a Bush or a Clinton on us again. Why is it that every media outlet is pushing Bush/Clinton? America isn't listening. Trump/Sanders are going to be the nominees.
I was startled to read that the press room at the debate was a cheerleading room for Clinton. No wonder the press is right up there with Congress as the very least respected American institutions.
Hey NYTimes, stop pushing Clinton down our throats.
I was startled to read that the press room at the debate was a cheerleading room for Clinton. No wonder the press is right up there with Congress as the very least respected American institutions.
Hey NYTimes, stop pushing Clinton down our throats.
77
The NYT is hardly "pushing Clinton down our throats," a ridiculous assertion, to say the least. Coverage of her 'emails' by the Times has been quite harsh. Here they are being objective, in my opinion.
I have to say I was mightily impressed by the debate, and I watched it all. Apparently it was the highest rated Democratic debate ever. All doubts about HRC's ability to handle tough questions was put to rest, and the whole group showed their solidarity with her by effectively yelling (as Sanders actually did), "Enough with the damn emails!"
What has long bothered me about Sanders is that rather than making detailed proposals, he relies on a hortatory style -- he's essentially a preacher of the gospel of equality and anti-corporate takeover of our economy and politics. He calls for millions of people to rise up, but did he ask for them to vote? He says we need a revolution, but does he mean that?
But I felt very reassured by Hillary's clear and well thought through proposals and her emphasis on taking all their potential consequences into account.
The Democrats ALL looked pretty good, with the exception of "I've never had a scandal" Chaffee and stolid Webb who looked pretty uncomfortable to be in the company of so many democrats. O'Malley got good exposure, too. He speaks well and has much to say.
I have to say I was mightily impressed by the debate, and I watched it all. Apparently it was the highest rated Democratic debate ever. All doubts about HRC's ability to handle tough questions was put to rest, and the whole group showed their solidarity with her by effectively yelling (as Sanders actually did), "Enough with the damn emails!"
What has long bothered me about Sanders is that rather than making detailed proposals, he relies on a hortatory style -- he's essentially a preacher of the gospel of equality and anti-corporate takeover of our economy and politics. He calls for millions of people to rise up, but did he ask for them to vote? He says we need a revolution, but does he mean that?
But I felt very reassured by Hillary's clear and well thought through proposals and her emphasis on taking all their potential consequences into account.
The Democrats ALL looked pretty good, with the exception of "I've never had a scandal" Chaffee and stolid Webb who looked pretty uncomfortable to be in the company of so many democrats. O'Malley got good exposure, too. He speaks well and has much to say.
10
Once again, the bias of the NYT is showing up.
Huge headline about how this most boring debate ever, was an awesome night for Mrs. Clinton, and hints of how she is unbeatable. This somehow means she defeated Joe Biden already, and Bernie Sanders tanked.
We also got a separate article on how Ben Carson is wrong. Few days ago a whole diatribe about how Trump should not win.
And today alone, 6 NYT articles about her magical performance.
Just like I asked a month ago, I’ll ask again. Please NYT, stop pretending, just come out for Hillary already, we all know you will anyway.
Huge headline about how this most boring debate ever, was an awesome night for Mrs. Clinton, and hints of how she is unbeatable. This somehow means she defeated Joe Biden already, and Bernie Sanders tanked.
We also got a separate article on how Ben Carson is wrong. Few days ago a whole diatribe about how Trump should not win.
And today alone, 6 NYT articles about her magical performance.
Just like I asked a month ago, I’ll ask again. Please NYT, stop pretending, just come out for Hillary already, we all know you will anyway.
8
The bottom line is Democrats want a big controlling socialist government versus freedom, democracy and capitalism.
There is only difference between Biden and Clinton. As far as we know Biden is honest and has integrity. This should be a quality all Americans want in a President.
There is only difference between Biden and Clinton. As far as we know Biden is honest and has integrity. This should be a quality all Americans want in a President.
2
We already have many socialist policies/institutions in this country, I still don't understand why that word is so scary to people.
While I think it was a respectable debate, I have to say frankly NONE of these candidates seem up to the task at hand (on the Rep side either). With Russias moves in Syria and Ukraine, China in the South Sea, and Iran getting the bomb things have the potential to get very serious very fast. I dont trust any of these scripted politicians with the "red button".
2
Joe, I can see your ego through the tears of your immense grief. Joe Biden has an immense ego.He wants to be President. His campaigns and issues in the past have been derailed by his own character flaws. The plagiarism scandals of his law review article at Syracuse and usurpation of Neil Kinnock's speech. In the Anita Hill hearings you bowed to political pressure and did not subpoena Clarence Thomas's video rental records and did not call witnesses who would have substantiated Anita Hills testimony. Your activities and relations with the secret service displayed that ego.Your current ritual "will he or won't he presidential dance" has morphed from sympathy after the Colbert interview, to frustration at your unnecessary Hamlet like indecision. Joe you love the speculation, that's why you're prolonging it. You love the attention.After last night, you won't run unless that ego just can't respond to empirical fact, in which case your repeating your greatest flaw.
5
Absolutely on the mark.
Hillary Clinton was disingenuous when she claimed that the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act grants "immunity to the only industry in America. Everybody else has to be accountable, but not the gun manufacturers." Under the Act, gun makers are liable for the damages for which they are directly responsible, the same as for any other manufacturer. The Act only negates the novel theory that gun manufacturers should be liable for crimes committed with their products by others.
3
I'm sorry, but Sanders did better than Hillary and I doubt he lost any ground last night to her. He is also smart to respect rural voters' position on guns - she does not "get that" because she is so tied to New York / Washington elites. Both were poised and ready to answer but Bernie was more substantive and more likeable at the same time., so in the end, he edged out over Hillary. And while democrat voters may not care about Hillary's emails, many of us do and she needs to accept the fact that thoughtful voters will want the FBI to get to the bottom of all that mess she caused. Its an issue.
15
If you love a candidate who can look right in the camera and lie to you about her position on major, and atrocious legislation:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-07/hillary-flip-flops-tpp-shuns-ob...
Then by all means, vote for Hillary.
After all - ensuring that women get "free*" {*not actually free} contraception is much more important than the neocon war machine spending 1/2 of tax revenues and murdering tens of thousands and supporting Al Qaeda all for the petrodollar, private central banking, and Greater Israel.
Good grief, this country richly deserves its decline.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-07/hillary-flip-flops-tpp-shuns-ob...
Then by all means, vote for Hillary.
After all - ensuring that women get "free*" {*not actually free} contraception is much more important than the neocon war machine spending 1/2 of tax revenues and murdering tens of thousands and supporting Al Qaeda all for the petrodollar, private central banking, and Greater Israel.
Good grief, this country richly deserves its decline.
11
Here's the problem with Hillary's candidacy. Everyone already knows she's qualified for the Presidency. Yes, she performed well in the debate, no surprise there. During any other election during typical times she'd walk away with this contest. But these aren't typical times in the US.
The electorate, both conservative and liberal, are hungry for change. It's what allowed Obama to take the Democratic Primary away from Hillary in 2008, and go on to win the general election. The problem is, Obama's Presidency has underscored just how tough implementing change is, and if Obama was unable to do it, Democrats already know that Hillary, a more traditional politician than Obama, won't be able to get squat done.
So Hillary, due to her honed ability to debate and campaign, wins the Primary, but loses the general, because the so called independents will see a Trump or Rubio as more different than Obama and, therefore, stands a better chance of bringing about change.
Understand that such "logic" on the part of independents is naive and foolhardy, but that's the current state of America. Just look at who's ahead in the polls. In other words, Hillary represents the old way of doing things, and just about anyone else represents a chance of something different. (Except Jeb!, who probably won't win the nomination for that very reason.)
The electorate, both conservative and liberal, are hungry for change. It's what allowed Obama to take the Democratic Primary away from Hillary in 2008, and go on to win the general election. The problem is, Obama's Presidency has underscored just how tough implementing change is, and if Obama was unable to do it, Democrats already know that Hillary, a more traditional politician than Obama, won't be able to get squat done.
So Hillary, due to her honed ability to debate and campaign, wins the Primary, but loses the general, because the so called independents will see a Trump or Rubio as more different than Obama and, therefore, stands a better chance of bringing about change.
Understand that such "logic" on the part of independents is naive and foolhardy, but that's the current state of America. Just look at who's ahead in the polls. In other words, Hillary represents the old way of doing things, and just about anyone else represents a chance of something different. (Except Jeb!, who probably won't win the nomination for that very reason.)
3
Just what the country does not need, four more years of Obama--and I voted for him twice, donated twice and knocked on doors, once. By the second election the glow was so very off I couldn't but I voted and donated to stop Mitt Romney from being elected. Is this what we are being offered? Why did Obama dismantle his network of volunteers once he got elected? I guess it was so he didn't have to work for their interests, he used us to get elected and then became a Republican lite. I can't stand it if Hilary does the same. We have real and serious issues in our country which must be addressed. My sister lives in France and every time she visits she is astonished at the state of the local roads and I live in supposedly liberal Massachusetts. I asked her, "you mean you don't have pot holes and broken pavement on your roads there" and she laughs. Sure, we have bad winters here but that's not the problem, it's the do nothing, know nothing Congress and they wouldn't have been elected had Obama held on to his popular coalition going into the 2010 elections. He's been a huge disappointment.
2
Even the NYT Picks for comments are biased in favor of Hilary. On CNN you can actually see the talking heads rolling their eyes at the idea of Bernie being president. In the Times you can see it in the way they skew the news in Hilary's favor.
14
I must have been watching a different debate than most of the pundits, as I saw nothing would suggest that Senator Sanders does not stand head and shoulders above Mrs Clinton in substance, consistency and authenticity. She won the debate? I don't think so, and judging from social media, I'm not in the minority.
61
I watched the debate and Hillary carried the evening. I like Bernie, but he'll never win a general election as a socialist from Vermont. Oh he could carry a couple of states, but he'd be crushed in moderate swing states like Colorado and Ohio.
1
Hillary's experience with foreign affairs is extremely important to this election and, quite frankly, Bernie just doesn't get it. He would be a pushover when it comes to Putin. His leftist views will not get us keep a democrat in the White House because the independents/republican voters will never vote for a proclaimed socialist. This is about keeping a democrat in the White House, not trying to sell us on a "revolution." Hillary appeared more presidential than Bernie. So, I am just not feeling "the Bern."
6
pushover?
You act as if it wasnt neocons that fomented a coup on Rusisas doorstep after decades of expanding Us and NATO bases and trying to use NGOs and silly stunts like P- Riot to villify Russia and its leader.
https://consortiumnews.com/2015/06/22/nyts-orwellian-view-of-ukraine/
Perhaps you ought to broaden your reading horizons.
You act as if it wasnt neocons that fomented a coup on Rusisas doorstep after decades of expanding Us and NATO bases and trying to use NGOs and silly stunts like P- Riot to villify Russia and its leader.
https://consortiumnews.com/2015/06/22/nyts-orwellian-view-of-ukraine/
Perhaps you ought to broaden your reading horizons.
1
I agree totally with the comment made by Paul from Chicago. If I were a new comer to this country who read the NYT, I would assume there were only two candidates running for President. Why is it that the Times only focuses and headlines every little nuance of only Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump? The implied bias of the NYT is disappointing and discouraging because you are not complying with your motto - All the News That's Fit to Print. You continue to print only half of the whole story.
28
Hillary did very well and Sanders did even better IMHO. This campaign has two really strong contenders. That has to give Biden Pause.
4
Biden is not running. If he decides to run, great. He has a lot on his mind, and running for this office does not seem to be the top choice for him. Do we really want an indecisive person or someone that does not really want the position to be president?!
The reason there is sooooo much concern about Biden is that with Clinton's candidacy being challenged by her questionable actions of the past and Sanders' climbing popularity, the corporate media is panicking to find a new SuperPAC candidate: Sanders does not have a SuperPAC, he does not need a SuperPAC, and he does not want a SuperPAC.
Clinton does, and if she makes it to office, she will have so many favors to pay back... perhaps four years' worth. Do we want a president for us, or a president for the corporations?
The reason there is sooooo much concern about Biden is that with Clinton's candidacy being challenged by her questionable actions of the past and Sanders' climbing popularity, the corporate media is panicking to find a new SuperPAC candidate: Sanders does not have a SuperPAC, he does not need a SuperPAC, and he does not want a SuperPAC.
Clinton does, and if she makes it to office, she will have so many favors to pay back... perhaps four years' worth. Do we want a president for us, or a president for the corporations?
3
“I think that kind of cemented it,” said Representative Dina Titus, Democrat of Nevada. “She said, ‘I’m a progressive who can get things done.’ That’s the perfect combination that we need.”
Anyone can say that. Hillary Clinton has served as Senator and Secretary of State, and has been in the public eye for decades. What are her progressive policy achievements?
The NYT is determined to crown Hillary Clinton winner of the debate (three stories and one opinion article published with this slant in less than 12 hours), just as they were determined to crown her as the Democratic nominee. But it turns out that the voters will have their say in the nomination. They may have their own ideas about the debate as well.
Anyone can say that. Hillary Clinton has served as Senator and Secretary of State, and has been in the public eye for decades. What are her progressive policy achievements?
The NYT is determined to crown Hillary Clinton winner of the debate (three stories and one opinion article published with this slant in less than 12 hours), just as they were determined to crown her as the Democratic nominee. But it turns out that the voters will have their say in the nomination. They may have their own ideas about the debate as well.
17
The article is clearly biased. It suggests Clinton completely aligned herself with Obama's policies, yet completely ignores to point out the debate question on her change of mind on the Trans Pacific Partnership deal which she supported when she was the Secretary of State and which she now opposes.
9
She will turn around again and in the end she will support TPP. Mark my words. She will say that "after much research, reading and talking to economists" that she will change her mind.
It won't be a flip-flop, it will be an 'evolution' of thinking.
It won't be a flip-flop, it will be an 'evolution' of thinking.
1
A brilliant debate, with facial expressions that helped choose "presence." Anderson Cooper was the star for his tough and clean moderation.
Kay
Kay
1
Ideologically - notwithstanding his refusal to hold gun manufacturers on the hook for product liability claims like any other entity that makes widgets - I am in accord with Mr. Sanders. However, many of his ideas are not feasible and if nominated and elected, I foresee Mr. Sanders running into so many preemption and federalism problems and issues in implementing his ideas and initiatives. I respect and admire Mr. Sanders's passion, but Mrs. Clinton understands the nuances of the law, politicking and diplomacy. Moreover, Mrs. Clinton is seasoned and has been tested in numerous battles and attacks and withstood them. This country would benefit a great deal from her. Hopefully, enough female Republicans can be swayed that it is high time for the boys' club in the White House to end and that a qualified female POTUS (NOT CARLY FIORINA) can capably lead this country and the rest of the free world.
9
Hillary Clinton disposing of Bernie Sanders recalls Anthony Trollope's observation in Barchester Towers (1857) on why people in the wrong so often prevail over people in the right [with suitable adjustment for gender]:
"A man in the right relies easily on his rectitude, and therefore goes about unarmed. His very strength is his weakness. A man in the wrong knows that he must look to his weapons; his very weakness is his strength. The one never prepares for combat, the other is always ready. Therefore it is that in this world the man that is in the wrong almost invariably conquers that man that is in the right, and invariably despises him."
"A man in the right relies easily on his rectitude, and therefore goes about unarmed. His very strength is his weakness. A man in the wrong knows that he must look to his weapons; his very weakness is his strength. The one never prepares for combat, the other is always ready. Therefore it is that in this world the man that is in the wrong almost invariably conquers that man that is in the right, and invariably despises him."
8
I've liked Biden since 1988, and was happy when Obama chose him as VP. As President she will achieve much, not the least of which will be to reverse the makeup of the Supreme Court so as to make voter-suppression and Citizens United a thing of the past. She is respected around the world and will outshine all previous presidents since Eisenhower and Truman. If her Congressional Inquisitors are not yet quaking in their boots, they should be. Sanders is great, so were the others, but I can't wait to cast my vote for Hillary.
2
I think all Hillary needs to do now to cinch the nomination is follow one of Bill's shinning glories and offer home loans to unqualified illegal immigrants and any impoverished person of color...that would be the icing on the cake. No immigration or source of income required, just come on over and "I" (Hillary) will give you free health care, education, food stamps, and a loan so you can own your own home.
The progression has usually been "White-man, White-woman, Black-man, Asian/Latino". President Obama upset the natural order of things (as proven by history) and now it is time for a Female President of the United States. Of course the Republicans will have a fit .... who cares. The GOP Clown Car along with their out-of-control speaker-less "House" is proving to even the most simple-minded American that they made a voting mistake during the past mid-terms and all clear thinking Republicans can only watch in horror as their party disintegrates into anarchy ... which is exactly what they want when they speak of "less government" ( i.e. a government so small you could drown it in a bathtub).
2
HRC just certainly looked presidential in a way that none of the other candidates of either party has. She reminded me of JFK, at ease not only before the camera and interviewers, but at ease with difficult questions of policy and complex issues. She certainly has the experience, the intelligence, and the tact to be president. She showed last night that she has the gravitas as well. BTW, she might have been vetting a VP candidate while she was onstage.
10
Joe Biden is starting to look better and better. I hope he doesn't take Hillarys success in the debate last night overly seriously.
Democrats are patting themselves on the back this morning and declaring success because the candidates remained polite during the debate last night. After the impossibly low bar the Republicans set, the Democrats would have had to wrestle topless in pudding to look worse.
I saw Hillary adopt some of Bernies winning slogans but not much substance in terms of policy from either candidate. I think a Biden bid would force both front-running candidates to provide more a more substantive declaration of their plans for restoring economic prosperity. Tax the rich is a slogan it's not a plan.
Democrats are patting themselves on the back this morning and declaring success because the candidates remained polite during the debate last night. After the impossibly low bar the Republicans set, the Democrats would have had to wrestle topless in pudding to look worse.
I saw Hillary adopt some of Bernies winning slogans but not much substance in terms of policy from either candidate. I think a Biden bid would force both front-running candidates to provide more a more substantive declaration of their plans for restoring economic prosperity. Tax the rich is a slogan it's not a plan.
2
Jonathan Martin, sincerely doubting your posit that HRC's performance last night at first Democratic Debate quelled talk about Vice-President Biden entering the campaign to offer another alternative to Sanders and Clinton. Vice-President Biden is not only likeable, but electable And the metaphor of HRC as the pitcher hurling strike after strike to get out of a jam is as silly as Bruni remarking that Hillary is a SEAMSTRESS who "threaded the needle delicately and perfectly". OY, a seamstress! Enough with the metaphors, guys. Biden was not mentioned by anyone during the debate last night, but he was surely an eminence grise, a power broker, in the room anyway.
It's hard to believe that the NYTimes is calling this a "WIN" for Hillary?! There was practically ZERO accountability on her part for some of the most difficult and painful decisions she made over her course of experience (email and Benghazi, yes, but others are well). Her laugh alone made me feel very disconcerted throughout the debate. The failure on the part of Cooper to hold her accountable for answering questions was evident. I think Biden, we need you more than ever.
4
No idea what you were watching, she was very good indeed. The email malarkey is a nothing, Benghazi is a hatchet job, and everyone knows it even the GOP.
Once again, Sanders comes away shorted by mainstream media. To many of our minds, Bernie was the clear leader in the debate - level headed, rational, undramatic, and sound. His track record of voting to support Democratic platforms speaks for itself. Hilary's voting record, while in the Senate, supports the status quo, bought and paid for by corporations. It's time media owners and media outlets gave Sanders the credit he deserves.
15
Bernie attacks so many criminal aspects of the current political and economic scene--the crime of oligarchs buying political elections, breaking up the corporate banks too big to fail or jail, etc. -- that mainstream news media can't bring themselves to even summarize his main points. To honestly report what Sanders says would be to admit how bad things are, and the corporate-owned media just can't do that. If Hillary succeeds, it will be because she's Sanders-lite. Sanders' popularity ought to scare the dickens out of the banks and corporations; so they'll look on Hillary as a more than acceptable substitute.
1
Her performance was dishonest. Also the whole thing looked like a setup to make her look good next to a bunch of patsies. Also she refused to answer Chafee on emails. I thought the whole thing was a disingenuous debate to talk about giving away free stuff and opening our borders when entitlements are already unfunded and we are 18T in debt despite record high taxation here. I lose over 50% of every dollar earned to taxes and these people want to raise them? This is just twilight zone at this point.
2
A fascinating, IMO, chart of top bracket income tax rates over the past century:
http://s158.photobucket.com/user/OnlyObvious/media/Tax_Rates/TopTaxBrack...
There is no question in my mind that the ultra wealthy are not paying their fair share of taxes or that one reason for our continually rising debt is that we have opted for lower taxes over fiscal responsibility.
http://s158.photobucket.com/user/OnlyObvious/media/Tax_Rates/TopTaxBrack...
There is no question in my mind that the ultra wealthy are not paying their fair share of taxes or that one reason for our continually rising debt is that we have opted for lower taxes over fiscal responsibility.
1
I didn't watch the debate but today looked at the Times website and there were 4 - FOUR articles about the debate, headlines of all 4 clearly telling me to believe that Hillary had "won".
I'm immediately skeptical. Editors, this looks fishy. Instead of telling me what I should think, how about actually analyzing the content of the debates. Or better yet, not only what they said last night, but what they've actually done and advocated for over their political careers.
Something else - in 3 of the 4 articles the journalists couldn't even be bothered to mention the names of 3 of the 5 debaters. Only Hillary and Bernie were mentioned by name (except in photo captions)... and of course, Biden's name was brought up, even though he is not a contender and was not present at the debate. Instead of devoting column inches to somebody who is not even in the race, how about acknowledging 3 of the 5 people actually IN the race.
For the record, the 4th article, which did mention all 5 candidates, only did so effectively in a list fashion, without providing any substance about them at all.
If this is the best we can expect of campaign journalism (and I'm accustomed to expecting the best when I read the NY Times) it's going to be a very badly reported season.
I can't resist one last thing. This is not a horse race and the upcoming presidential campaign isn't either. This Times reader is not interested in which horse is a neck or length ahead of the other. This reader wants policy substance.
I'm immediately skeptical. Editors, this looks fishy. Instead of telling me what I should think, how about actually analyzing the content of the debates. Or better yet, not only what they said last night, but what they've actually done and advocated for over their political careers.
Something else - in 3 of the 4 articles the journalists couldn't even be bothered to mention the names of 3 of the 5 debaters. Only Hillary and Bernie were mentioned by name (except in photo captions)... and of course, Biden's name was brought up, even though he is not a contender and was not present at the debate. Instead of devoting column inches to somebody who is not even in the race, how about acknowledging 3 of the 5 people actually IN the race.
For the record, the 4th article, which did mention all 5 candidates, only did so effectively in a list fashion, without providing any substance about them at all.
If this is the best we can expect of campaign journalism (and I'm accustomed to expecting the best when I read the NY Times) it's going to be a very badly reported season.
I can't resist one last thing. This is not a horse race and the upcoming presidential campaign isn't either. This Times reader is not interested in which horse is a neck or length ahead of the other. This reader wants policy substance.
24
I like Bernie too, but he is not presidential material. He is not as likely to beat a Republican as is Hillary, nor be as able to deal with Congress, and that is much more important than voting for a rock star of sorts. I would certainly hope he is invited to be in her administration, along with the rest of the cast of the debate. But I'm not sure any of the other debaters are the right person to run as VP with Hillary. In fact, I'd like it to be Biden.
2
I've had that thought too. Either Bernie or Biden would be a great VP choice if she wins the nomination. If Bernie gets the nomination, he should go with either Hilary or Biden if either are interested. Would love to see Biden stay is some high position within the administration. Despite his so called gaffes...he still has more wisdom to impart than almost any other politician in our government today.
1
Good for Hill. Count her out and she still comes out for another round. Just in case Bernie has not made it clear enough that he is so lefty that he is not ready for prime time or for a general election, his rant about bringing down the American capitalist system supplied an exclamation point. Other than his ever loyal Vermont constituents, if you are a well-educated white Marxist or socialist living off a trust fund, Bernie is for you. But unfortunately for him, most voters are not from that demographic.
1
The tone and substance of this article appear to be further evidence that a Times editorial policy for Clinton is inappropriately bleeding into news articles, an interpretation supported by the array of Times post-debate articles and that the "Highlights and Analysis" section includes links for Clinton and Sanders but not for Webb, Chafee, or O'Malley.
The debate was basically designed as entertainment, much of it a CNN set-up. The immigration question was of a "have you stopped beating your wife" nature. Webb was marginalized. Post debate commentators largely had an agenda.
Though Webb came off poorly as a TV personality, he brought up issues no other candidate would touch and that Cooper did not, and seemingly the Times will not, pursue, most notably concerning the separation of powers, China, and both foreign and corporate cybersecurity. Though not the best TV candidate, Webb has a legitimate case as making the best President.
Chafee eliminated himself sadly with his explanation of his Senate vote. Instead of saying, "I blew it" and moving on, he sounded like a whiner, albeit one with legitimate cause. A Presidential candidate can get away with lying but not whining.
Webb and Sanders showed the best understanding of the political process itself, indicating the possibility of accomplishing things as President without control of Congress.
Clinton came off well, but changed few votes. As the front-runner, her major goal was not to make any gaffes, to avoid losing votes.
The debate was basically designed as entertainment, much of it a CNN set-up. The immigration question was of a "have you stopped beating your wife" nature. Webb was marginalized. Post debate commentators largely had an agenda.
Though Webb came off poorly as a TV personality, he brought up issues no other candidate would touch and that Cooper did not, and seemingly the Times will not, pursue, most notably concerning the separation of powers, China, and both foreign and corporate cybersecurity. Though not the best TV candidate, Webb has a legitimate case as making the best President.
Chafee eliminated himself sadly with his explanation of his Senate vote. Instead of saying, "I blew it" and moving on, he sounded like a whiner, albeit one with legitimate cause. A Presidential candidate can get away with lying but not whining.
Webb and Sanders showed the best understanding of the political process itself, indicating the possibility of accomplishing things as President without control of Congress.
Clinton came off well, but changed few votes. As the front-runner, her major goal was not to make any gaffes, to avoid losing votes.
7
Love, love, love, Bernie.
But he appears to be a one or two trick pony.
If our nightmares were only domestic I'd give him more of a look.
Of all the candidates on both sides of the aisle I have to go with HRC.
She seems most Presidential as she has such a command of all topics thrown at her, and one that can things done even with her adversaries.
But he appears to be a one or two trick pony.
If our nightmares were only domestic I'd give him more of a look.
Of all the candidates on both sides of the aisle I have to go with HRC.
She seems most Presidential as she has such a command of all topics thrown at her, and one that can things done even with her adversaries.
5
No quarrel with the tenor of this article but a reminder that almost all politicians lie about their intentions if they're elected. Even Obama, who I thought was my last hope, fell into that category. By contrast, it seems that most repub candidates proudly delineate their poorly disguised misanthropic intentions.
Stilkl, there *is* one great last hope in the person of Bernie Sanders. Message to dems: if you don't nominate Bernie I will go third-party. Adios muchachos.
Stilkl, there *is* one great last hope in the person of Bernie Sanders. Message to dems: if you don't nominate Bernie I will go third-party. Adios muchachos.
1
... but Bernie is not making sense when he promotes free college for everyone. There are some many better, more important ways to help people. Free college will just let individuals and colleges rip off the government.
2
"...an implicit statement to Mr. Biden that there is no more space in the Democratic contest…"
"swiftly cooled talk about the need for Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. to enter the campaign…"
Is this supposed to be a news article? It sounds more like something HC's press office sent out.
All the people quoted here who say Biden should take a hike are strategists, consultants, and other politicians.Did you ask any voters?
Because many of us think that having more candidates, rather than fewer, at this point is a good thing.
Even if it undermines claims that HC has this thing all wrapped up.
"swiftly cooled talk about the need for Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. to enter the campaign…"
Is this supposed to be a news article? It sounds more like something HC's press office sent out.
All the people quoted here who say Biden should take a hike are strategists, consultants, and other politicians.Did you ask any voters?
Because many of us think that having more candidates, rather than fewer, at this point is a good thing.
Even if it undermines claims that HC has this thing all wrapped up.
7
I hope the Times will elevate their political discussion beyond "gotcha" scorekeeping - leave it to other "news" vendors. The candidates, I feel, shied away often enough from gotchas to elevate the discussion. My takeaway is the Democratic party was well represented - by those (on that Las Vegas stage) who govern for a living and talked specifically in terms of governance as a profession. They will not always agree on the issues (which is a healthy debate), but they seek to govern. The Republican candidates really never even mention realistic political solutions as a daily goal. Governance and governing infuriates them
right now. Several of them have never done it, come to think of it.
right now. Several of them have never done it, come to think of it.
4
Clinton was very good, though to me (and many others) she comes off as a little smug. Also, her answer about tackling the ills of Wall Street--"I went down to Wall Street and told those guys to quit it"--was absolutely horrible. She has Wall Street $ behind her which will certainly affect her policy stances down the road.
Bernie Sanders crushed it. As another poster put it so succinctly, "Sanders wants to fix things; Clinton wants to be President."
Bernie Sanders crushed it. As another poster put it so succinctly, "Sanders wants to fix things; Clinton wants to be President."
74
I find Hillary "likable enough" to quote our president. I have been content in my plan to vote for her but--and this may be misunderstood as shallow--she would be well-served to work with a vocal coach. The timbre of her voice is sharp and shrill making her sound angry and leaving her vulnerable to the nickname "Shrillary." This is important because the tone of voice conveys qualities of the personality. Learning to lower the pitch and round out the tone will convey a calm, well-considered, and presidential mindset.
2
we love you Hillary Clinton :) You were so good, so smart, so presidential. God bless you, God bless America!
1
I've loved Hillary ever since she didn't stay home and bake cookies in the 1990's. Watching her last night, I was remembering how exciting it was when she and Bill first appeared on the scene after 12 years of Republicans in the White House. People complain about their particular brand of politics, but I remember being incredibly relieved that Democrats finally had put up a candidate who could play the game as well as -- even better than -- the Republicans. And he had this wife who seemed equally capable. The other candidates on stage last night seemed like a throwback to the likes of Walter Mondale and Michael Dukakis -- I got chills thinking about what virtually any of the Republicans would do to them in a general election. Hillary was in a class by herself. She's got this.
283
That was a ringing endorsement of HRC's policies. Oh, wait -- I forgot; that's beside the point.
Me too! I wrote a comment about this also. I will never forget how she was vilified for wanting to be taken seriously!!
We must all remember what Mrs. Clinton did on her last job when it became difficult. She quit.
We really can't afford a President that breaks down, hangs up the red phone and runs to the bedroom to hide.
We really can't afford a President that breaks down, hangs up the red phone and runs to the bedroom to hide.
Beating a couple of political amateurs in a debate on a Tuesday doth not make one a President. The presidential process for Hillary Clinton remains fraught with landmines as it relates to her character and trustworthiness in the eyes of the American people, something I'm sure is not lost on Joe Biden's camp nor any other challenger.
6
I agree that she crushed the debate, but face it: that's because she faced off against three total nobodies and one opponent who declined to go after her, making it quite the snooze fest. Biden may not run but his opening remains. Hillary is not liked or trusted, has more skeletons than a cemetary, and is likely to lose.
5
I hear you, but we don't have to like or trust her. One word: SCOTUS.
I think the debate last night was really good for both candidates, Sanders and Clinton.
Sanders understands that his job as a politician is to represent people, not tell them how they should behave. And he's completely right that if the American people want things to change--and we clearly do--millions more of us are going to have to turn up and vote in the next election. I respect him for being such an up-front and understanding politician. That being said, I think he'd lose in a general election against Rubio.
Hillary understands how to be a politician. She speaks articulately and has a long track record of doing things that irk the GOP. She understands that compromise is necessary to effectively govern. And, despite constant bombardment from her opposition, she's reliably executed the democratic agenda for the last 20 years.
I'm leaning Hillary, but I'd like Bernie to keep riling up the democrat base for as long as possible.
Sanders understands that his job as a politician is to represent people, not tell them how they should behave. And he's completely right that if the American people want things to change--and we clearly do--millions more of us are going to have to turn up and vote in the next election. I respect him for being such an up-front and understanding politician. That being said, I think he'd lose in a general election against Rubio.
Hillary understands how to be a politician. She speaks articulately and has a long track record of doing things that irk the GOP. She understands that compromise is necessary to effectively govern. And, despite constant bombardment from her opposition, she's reliably executed the democratic agenda for the last 20 years.
I'm leaning Hillary, but I'd like Bernie to keep riling up the democrat base for as long as possible.
1
Where Mr. Jonathan Martin gets all his enthusiasm for Hillary's debate performance is difficult to find in anything she said or did. It was the same old Clinton double talk that has been passed off on the electorate in the past, but this time warmed over to scare off Mr. Biden. With the huge albatross sitting on Mrs. Clinton's shoulder reminding us all of her past cover ups and game playing with Wall Street and corporate lobbyists, she will have to do more than scare off Joe Biden if she is to not get wiped out by the straight-forwardness of Bernie Sanders.
9
AM I the only person who thinks that Biden is truly ambivalent about running, and that his real function--encouraged by some in the Democratic establishment--is to sit parked on the runway apron as insurance against a massive Clinton failure? The email stupidity is still out there, even if Benghazi seems to have played itself out.
4
This morning I am proud to call myself a Democrat. First and foremost it was a relief to witness the level of discourse during last night's debate in comparison to the embarrassing "conversation" that took place a few weeks prior. Actual issues of importance to our nation were discussed intelligently and respectfully. What a refreshing change!
My world view is most closely aligned with Senator Sanders, especially when he articulates the biggest challenges facing our nation and its people as the corrupting power and influence of corporate campaign financing and our historic economic inequality. But I was quite glad to see Secretary Clinton perform so well too. If, as expected, she wins the party's nomination I would now have much less problem voting for her in the general election. Heck, based on last night's performance I would vote for any of the five candidates on the stage last night before I'd pull the lever for any one of the Rs. And I don't necessarily agree with all of them, especially Senator Webb. But at least they were all articulate, respectful and statesman-like.
Congratulations to each of them and the the DNC.
My world view is most closely aligned with Senator Sanders, especially when he articulates the biggest challenges facing our nation and its people as the corrupting power and influence of corporate campaign financing and our historic economic inequality. But I was quite glad to see Secretary Clinton perform so well too. If, as expected, she wins the party's nomination I would now have much less problem voting for her in the general election. Heck, based on last night's performance I would vote for any of the five candidates on the stage last night before I'd pull the lever for any one of the Rs. And I don't necessarily agree with all of them, especially Senator Webb. But at least they were all articulate, respectful and statesman-like.
Congratulations to each of them and the the DNC.
425
Stephen Marcus, you said it right. The Dems can be proud. There is no comparison with the "others."
Were you watching the same debate that I was?
We have always known that the academic stuff is Hilary Clinton's forte--talking points, debating, etc. I don't think the voters care so much about who is the best debater. Some of us don't like Hilary because of her tendency to cover up or at least try to do so. A great performance on a debate stage isn't going to get me to trust her. Vice President Biden may not be as "sure-tongued" but he is sincere and has as much knowledge on the issues as Hilary Clinton. If any Biden people are reading this, I am still in...
4
I agree. Clinton's performance was just a reminder of why we don't want her representing our party. She is too well known to be able to repair her brand, even if her handlers could train her not to laugh like Ben Carson or could get her to seem like a trustworthy person sometimes. As a Democrat, I hope that Biden runs. He is not the head of a political machine. With him as the head of the party, their will be hope for the future of the party. On the issues, it was clear that Sanders won the debate. If Biden enters the race his value proposition will be simple: I agree with the progressive wing of the party represented by Sanders, the wing of the party that will actually build a new future for the party, but I have the most experience to get things done when in office. For me, the fact that Biden single-handedly changed the administrations policy on gay marriage, and did it as VP, is the most significant action any VP has taken in the history of our country. He is already by far the most accomplished VP, let's give him a chance to bring his ability to negotiate, make friends, and gaffe his was into getting things done to the Presidency.
I wish the Democratic debates had come first--the race would be so much less depressing. Here we have a collection of talented, smart, educated individuals who can articulate themselves vs. the circus of Republican wackos, none of whom will ever be President. We talked about guns, not abortions, and good for Senator Sanders to quell the useless email controversy that has needlessly plagued Hillary's campaign for all these months. That was a truly selfless, heroic move, and something that requires class and intelligence, something the Republican Party painfully lacks.
That said, Hillary will be President, and no, she will not choose Sanders as her running mate (can you imagine him shouting and pointing at Putin?), because they are too ideologically far apart. More likely it will be someone like Julian Castro. Hillary played this chess game with precision and strength, she was Presidential, and she made me proud to support her.
She would make a great President.
It's mostly about Sanders and Clinton now, with O'Malley a distant third, so we can forget about Biden jumping in. Webb and Chaffey were underwhelming and can step aside now, so let's focus on what matters and not get bogged down by the inconsequential non-issues he media conjures up for ratings, so we really can improve this country. Health care is flawed, we need education reform, there's Syria and ISIS and North Korea to worry about, so let's get working...
That said, Hillary will be President, and no, she will not choose Sanders as her running mate (can you imagine him shouting and pointing at Putin?), because they are too ideologically far apart. More likely it will be someone like Julian Castro. Hillary played this chess game with precision and strength, she was Presidential, and she made me proud to support her.
She would make a great President.
It's mostly about Sanders and Clinton now, with O'Malley a distant third, so we can forget about Biden jumping in. Webb and Chaffey were underwhelming and can step aside now, so let's focus on what matters and not get bogged down by the inconsequential non-issues he media conjures up for ratings, so we really can improve this country. Health care is flawed, we need education reform, there's Syria and ISIS and North Korea to worry about, so let's get working...
7
Sen. Sanders most "crucial assist" to Sec'y Clinton had nothing to do with guns or e-mails.
He has continuously assisted her in coming to the realization that in order to win 2016, and possibly turn over the Senate and pick up House seats, Democrats and like-minded voters must turn out in large numbers as in 2008, and unlike 2010 and 2014. And in order to do that she must draw sharp, indeed stark, distinctions between the overall economic agendas of the two parties.
Sen. Sanders has articulated those distinctions quite ably. Now it's up to Sec'y Clinton to take on that mantle, and wear as unabashedly as he does.
He has continuously assisted her in coming to the realization that in order to win 2016, and possibly turn over the Senate and pick up House seats, Democrats and like-minded voters must turn out in large numbers as in 2008, and unlike 2010 and 2014. And in order to do that she must draw sharp, indeed stark, distinctions between the overall economic agendas of the two parties.
Sen. Sanders has articulated those distinctions quite ably. Now it's up to Sec'y Clinton to take on that mantle, and wear as unabashedly as he does.
9
I agree wholeheartedly that Sen Sanders is performing a great service to our country by highlighting these issues so that whoever the nominee is -- himself of Sec Clinton -- that person can run with a clear and compelling and much-needed message.
1
Of course Hilary will dominate when her biggest opponent, Sanders, gives her a complete waiver on her biggest vulnerability - the email issue.
Hilary will not get a free pass from a fighter like Trump though. This country needs a leader that will fight for its interests, not another one that will meekly lead from behind like Sanders.
Hilary will not get a free pass from a fighter like Trump though. This country needs a leader that will fight for its interests, not another one that will meekly lead from behind like Sanders.
5
Nothing meek about Sanders..he has high moral principles. Clinton does not. She is a corporatist.
Thank you.
As a Sanders supporter, I expected him to win.
I did not expect him to claim the emails scandal {a surface scandal over the CIA gun running from Benghazi to Al Qaeda which this paper doesnt cover} was meaningless and presume to speak for me.
So I'm not voting for him.
I'm staying home.
As a Sanders supporter, I expected him to win.
I did not expect him to claim the emails scandal {a surface scandal over the CIA gun running from Benghazi to Al Qaeda which this paper doesnt cover} was meaningless and presume to speak for me.
So I'm not voting for him.
I'm staying home.
The whole Syria mess began when she was the Secretary of State. I wonder why the NYT has never truly delved in that direction.
Please, let me summarize the tragically sad conditions of the entire liberal movement, the left, the Democratic Party and the free press.
Long ago, in 2002, then-Senator Hillary Clinton foolishly voted to authorize invasion of Iraq to destroy non-existent WMD and in response to the 9/11 attacks that were perpetrated by a handful of the Saudis and the Egyptians.
Mr. Obama used her terribly wrong vote, logic and worldviews to defeat Mrs. Clinton as the presidential candidate in democratic primary in 2008.
However, as the president, Mr. Obama used the same credentials to promote Mrs. Clinton to the position of the Secretary of State.
Of course, both of them plunged the Middle East even deeper in the chaos, thus staying on the same wrong course set up by Bush and Cheney.
Those colossal failures of Mrs. Clinton made her the presidential front runner in the current race.
Why do we have the elections at all if both parties act in the same way both locally and globally?
If we watched some Hollywood-made movie with this kind of scenario we would consider a director and a scenarist to be completely detached from reality and the world.
How to call our current reality: the twilight zone or the nightmare?
Long ago, in 2002, then-Senator Hillary Clinton foolishly voted to authorize invasion of Iraq to destroy non-existent WMD and in response to the 9/11 attacks that were perpetrated by a handful of the Saudis and the Egyptians.
Mr. Obama used her terribly wrong vote, logic and worldviews to defeat Mrs. Clinton as the presidential candidate in democratic primary in 2008.
However, as the president, Mr. Obama used the same credentials to promote Mrs. Clinton to the position of the Secretary of State.
Of course, both of them plunged the Middle East even deeper in the chaos, thus staying on the same wrong course set up by Bush and Cheney.
Those colossal failures of Mrs. Clinton made her the presidential front runner in the current race.
Why do we have the elections at all if both parties act in the same way both locally and globally?
If we watched some Hollywood-made movie with this kind of scenario we would consider a director and a scenarist to be completely detached from reality and the world.
How to call our current reality: the twilight zone or the nightmare?
6
The Democrats made the fatal mistake of trusting their president after 9/11. It didn't matter that Bush was a Republican. Sen Clinton like most Americans, respected and trusted Bush as Commander-in-Chief. That's what Democrats do in war time. I'm not talking about activist progressives who generally disdain military solutions to foreign policy problems, I'm talking about our representatives in Congress.
Clinton was Senator of New York. She had more to lose by going against the Republican president on Iraq, and her motives would be questioned as Bill Clinton's wife. She probably wanted to believe we could just get the bad guys and this would be over, like many of us here did. Perhaps she wanted to look "tough" and bolster her foreign policy cred. Maybe she was simply a coward. But, let's not pretend most of us were better. More than a million people protested the Iraq war, but most of the 300 million here watched tv, ate pizza, went to the movies, and generally ignored the wars. Should we expect more from our president? Of course, but we must expect more of ourselves too.
Bush & Cheney manipulated the media right here in the pages of this premiere news source and betrayed our trust in the presidency. Plenty of people of lost credibility in the aftermath of 9/11. The same people calling for Hillary's head on a platter walked away without even a slap on the wrist for lying and bullying us into war in the haze of a horrific terrorist attack. Spare me the outrage.
Clinton was Senator of New York. She had more to lose by going against the Republican president on Iraq, and her motives would be questioned as Bill Clinton's wife. She probably wanted to believe we could just get the bad guys and this would be over, like many of us here did. Perhaps she wanted to look "tough" and bolster her foreign policy cred. Maybe she was simply a coward. But, let's not pretend most of us were better. More than a million people protested the Iraq war, but most of the 300 million here watched tv, ate pizza, went to the movies, and generally ignored the wars. Should we expect more from our president? Of course, but we must expect more of ourselves too.
Bush & Cheney manipulated the media right here in the pages of this premiere news source and betrayed our trust in the presidency. Plenty of people of lost credibility in the aftermath of 9/11. The same people calling for Hillary's head on a platter walked away without even a slap on the wrist for lying and bullying us into war in the haze of a horrific terrorist attack. Spare me the outrage.
…as it should chill the hearts and minds of Americans who actually think that their vote counts and that The Hillary Brand® will live up to her promises and co-opted campaign points she stole from Bernie Sanders' populist movement.
Remember the adage: Past performance is no guarantee of future results.
Remember the adage: Past performance is no guarantee of future results.
3
Biden is not waiting for Hillary to tank so much as to see if she is going to be legally prohibited from the nomination. Surely the summer convention in 2016 would not nominate her if she has been indicted of multiple federal felony crimes.
And if she is not indicted, the resignations from the FBI that would follow will then become some kind of issue. But only then would we see Biden, even if too late for the primaries. This is what conventions are for.
And if she is not indicted, the resignations from the FBI that would follow will then become some kind of issue. But only then would we see Biden, even if too late for the primaries. This is what conventions are for.
7
Wow!.... if wishing only made it so.
Your construct is very interesting. Either Sec Clinton is "indicted on multiple felony crimes" or those in the FBI responsible for failing to find something, anything to charge her with would have to resign.
I guess it never occurred to you that Sec Clinton might not have committed a crime.
Sounds like Fire, ready, aim to me.
Your construct is very interesting. Either Sec Clinton is "indicted on multiple felony crimes" or those in the FBI responsible for failing to find something, anything to charge her with would have to resign.
I guess it never occurred to you that Sec Clinton might not have committed a crime.
Sounds like Fire, ready, aim to me.
9
What kind of wishful fantasyland are you living in? "...if she has been indicted of multiple federal felony crimes." & "...if she is not indicted, the resignations from the FBI that would follow..." Really?
Before Hillary Clinton could be "indicted of multiple federal felony crimes" she would need to commit at least one crime. And, despite a 17-month fishing expedition by the House Republicans, there is not even the slightest evidence to suggest that she has done so.
I doubt that any presidential candidate in history has ever been so thoroughly vetted for the nomination. Hillary is ready for the presidency. America is ready for Hillary.
I doubt that any presidential candidate in history has ever been so thoroughly vetted for the nomination. Hillary is ready for the presidency. America is ready for Hillary.
I'm a little confused here. Did not realize that one good debate means that there is no need to present the citizens of the US with more than one choice for a Democraric nominee for president
Isn't the process meant to give us options and let us pick the best candidate?
Isn't the process meant to give us options and let us pick the best candidate?
99
Yes. The best candidate to return the strength of the middle class is Bernie Sanders.
1
Take a look at the picture. There are 5 people standing on that stage. You already have "more than one choice for a Democraric nominee for president."
2
I agree it is a suspiciously weak article from an otherwise able journalist. But you must always consider that by writing an article today a journalist could be securing a nice salary or contract benefits package from a Clinton administration or Clinton Foundation entity tomorrow... What truth could matter more than the one that gets you protection from/membership in the Clinton racket? Journalists are just trying to survive and feed their families. We can't expect them to limit this project to writing articles that make sense or promoting the values on which our polity is founded, especially when they could be paid not to do these things. Or, perhaps more accurately, wouldn't you make your articles a little less interesting if a strong debate performance makes you believe that the Clinton machine will soon take power again and you are a journalist who doesn't want to be blacklisted by the Clinton machine for writing several article that could be seen as contributing to the drumbeat for Biden (as Mr. Martin has done)? It's a dangerous world and folks are likely to cover their backs, it doesn't have to be the result of stupidity. Mr. Martin is clearly not stupid, but he does have a career to protect.
Sanders was clear, concise and direct, making it clear what he would do with specifics. He made it an actual debate.
Hillary not so much. Clever like Ted Cruz at debating and assertive in her demeanor and speech. But she was lacking a lot of specifics and used a lot of qualifiers when she did address policy. The pundits who are so impressed seemed to judge her acting performance rather than how she addressed the issues.
In particular, her unwillingness to challenge Wall street by endorsing the reinstatement of the glass-steagall act showed me more about her than anything else said. I trust Sanders.
Hillary not so much. Clever like Ted Cruz at debating and assertive in her demeanor and speech. But she was lacking a lot of specifics and used a lot of qualifiers when she did address policy. The pundits who are so impressed seemed to judge her acting performance rather than how she addressed the issues.
In particular, her unwillingness to challenge Wall street by endorsing the reinstatement of the glass-steagall act showed me more about her than anything else said. I trust Sanders.
523
Unfortunately, Glass-Steagall at this point is an antiquated Red Herring used by some to raise populist emotion. Financial institutions are no longer just banks, and dark money, hedge funds, and program trading are not the exclusive domain of wire houses. Dodd-Frank was watered down by Republicans; but it's a start. A comprehensive solution is still waiting to be proposed. And, I'm waiting to see who has the courage and public backing to drive that one.
Bernie is right about one thing: No President will get it done - unless America delivers a Democrat Senate and House as part of the package.
Bernie is right about one thing: No President will get it done - unless America delivers a Democrat Senate and House as part of the package.
8
I don't know why anybody would claim Hillary was short on specifics. She alluded many times to her position papers one can read if one bothers to take the time. One cannot expect her to go over the details in a 5 minute answer. I also find strange the claim that Bernie was more specific. Yes, he was quite clear in pointing out what the problems are, much less so on how legislation will look like to solve the problems and how that legislation will make it pass the Congress. He called for a revolution in voter attitude. Good luck with that. The only revolutionaries so far are the Tea Party types, not exactly the ones one can count on to support Bernie's positions.
Bernie Sanders wants to lead a "revolution" against Wall Street. He is totally unclear about how to achieve this new "revolution."
1
She was very good, and the nation will be in much better hands with this pick, vs. any from the wholly bizarre Republican group.
43
Oh dear, it always scares me when people say we will be in good hands with Hillary Clinton. She is a liar, and that makes her a lot more dangerous than bizarre. JS.
Clinton is a purchased and indebted politician like all of them, but Sanders. That SuperPAC money does not come without strings.
While I still prefer Bernie Sanders' goals on reining in the financial sector of the economy and getting a fair deal for the "middle-class" and his wisdom on the futility of military intervention in places where Hillary has advocated military solutions, there is no question that Hillary came across as more "Presidential" than any contender from either party. I think that after last night's debate most Republican want-to-be's are peeing in their pants. Now if Bernie can only keep pushing Hillary to be more like himself and less like her husband, she may also win the hearts and minds of many traditional working class Republican-leaning voters. Beware Republican Bengasi committee! Hillary will make Republican members look like bigger fools than they have already appeared to be. The Hillary e-mail tempest in a teapot is already an incredible waste of time and money. To paraphrase 'Enough of her damned e-mails already'!!!
405
RLW - you nailed it, without meaning to. Yes, Hillary "came across as". Bernie didn't need to come across as, he WAS.
29
More "Presidential"? What does that even mean? More "polished"? More "established"?
Hillary Clinton is a very good speaker. She is charming, and has good swagger. But what about substance and specifics? Glass-Steagall? Here Wall Street/Big-Moneyed donors?
First we had Bush I, then Clinton I, the Bush II, and now we are considering a Clinton II? Is the Democratic Party really that okay with political dynasties?
Hillary Clinton is a very good speaker. She is charming, and has good swagger. But what about substance and specifics? Glass-Steagall? Here Wall Street/Big-Moneyed donors?
First we had Bush I, then Clinton I, the Bush II, and now we are considering a Clinton II? Is the Democratic Party really that okay with political dynasties?
8
Well, if I were a 6+ foot man, and my lectern was designed for a woman, I might not look so presidential either.
It was only you people in the media harping on Joe Biden this whole time. It is you people who fabricated false narratives about Biden and Clinton that only had any truth in the spun up stories you made up.
Why can the media just try to report on the stories and do a better job of it instead of playing political analyst at each and every turn? You say the Biden movement has been chilled. From where I stand, and I do see plenty, there is almost no movement toward Biden. But No! That doesn't stop this near useless media from prognosticating. When they should just shut up and try to do their job: report the story!
This is supposed to be news. I can go to the Opinion section if I want to hear people flapping their lips!
Why can the media just try to report on the stories and do a better job of it instead of playing political analyst at each and every turn? You say the Biden movement has been chilled. From where I stand, and I do see plenty, there is almost no movement toward Biden. But No! That doesn't stop this near useless media from prognosticating. When they should just shut up and try to do their job: report the story!
This is supposed to be news. I can go to the Opinion section if I want to hear people flapping their lips!
24
During last night's debate, Bernie Sanders threw down a gauntlet and drew a line in the sand, forcefully stating, "No more!
Paraphrasing Picard, "I will not sacrifice America. We've made too many compromises already; too many retreats. They invade our towns and we fall back. They assimilate entire states and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far, no further! And *I* will make them pay for what they've done!"
Paraphrasing Picard, "I will not sacrifice America. We've made too many compromises already; too many retreats. They invade our towns and we fall back. They assimilate entire states and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far, no further! And *I* will make them pay for what they've done!"
6
Finally, headline re Hillary that is beginning to be accurate.
PERFORMANCE is the word for her all right. That's what contrasts with reality such as whar we saw from Bernie.
PERFORMANCE is the word for her all right. That's what contrasts with reality such as whar we saw from Bernie.
21
"The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior".
Sanders has been steady on his ideas and actions for decades while Hillary admitted that she had been moving back and forth in almost all issues.
Sanders has been steady on his ideas and actions for decades while Hillary admitted that she had been moving back and forth in almost all issues.
80
Why should I vote for someone because of the mere fact they haven't changed their minds (dare I say "evolved"?) on anything in decades? Is that really a good thing?
1
I'm a Bernie fan. I'm also objective. Hillary won the debate.
The question is.. do I want someone who will create positive change for the majority of people or am I looking for a great debater?
Bernie will pick up his game and do better after reviewing his good but not great performance.
The three other candidates were just noise in the room.
The question is.. do I want someone who will create positive change for the majority of people or am I looking for a great debater?
Bernie will pick up his game and do better after reviewing his good but not great performance.
The three other candidates were just noise in the room.
23
I don't think we watched the same debate.
Hillary did not "win" the debate in any substantive sense at all.
She just showed that she is an ideological chameleon.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-07/hillary-flip-flops-tpp-shuns-ob...
Hillary did not "win" the debate in any substantive sense at all.
She just showed that she is an ideological chameleon.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-07/hillary-flip-flops-tpp-shuns-ob...
I think Hillary won for style and Bernie won for substance. I don't know if I can trust Hillary to do what she says, now that she is leaning left. I do trust Bernie though.
78
Hey, you trusted her to do the right thing and support W's rape of Iraq, didn't you?
Dear New York Times, It's not nice to mislead your readers just to push your agenda. We've been treated so far this morning to quite a few articles about how "opinion makers" are telling us that Hillary won the debate and how strong Hillary was in the debate. Which, on it's own is true enough, she came off polished and sounded like a professional politician.
But, oddly enough (only odd because it's getting no mention in your paper), if you actually do a little googling and look at some independent polls you'll see the PEOPLE are actually favoring Bernie on this one, by over 70%.
See for instance: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/10/democra...
But, oddly enough (only odd because it's getting no mention in your paper), if you actually do a little googling and look at some independent polls you'll see the PEOPLE are actually favoring Bernie on this one, by over 70%.
See for instance: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/10/democra...
106
Sanders not only won that debate he did so ostentatiously.
1
The "polls" on which you're relying aren't scientific. They aren't really polls at all. It amazes me how much Sanders supporters sound like Republicans: The media are conspiring against us. Not to mention your similarly absolutist rigid ideologies.
1
Every focus group (i.e. real people) picked BERNIE as the winner. Is the NYT spinning the news because Bernie is not a corporatist?
BERNIE won CNN focus group: http://www.politicususa.com/2015/10/14/cnn-focus-group-bernie-sanders-wo...
BERNIE won FOX focus group: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/democratic-debate-bernie-sanders_561...
BERNIE won the FUSION focus group: http://fusion.net/story/214234/bernie-sanders-wins-democratic-debate-foc...
BERNIE won the FACEBOOK and TWITTER poll: http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2015/10/14/bernie-sanders-wins-debate-on-s...
BERNIE won the Google Analytics Enthusiasm poll: http://www.mediaite.com/online/bernie-sanders-wins-at-least-by-google-an...
Clearly the revolution was not being televised to the NYT.
Here's a tip for the NYT, try integrity for a change. It's working for Bernie and it'll work for you.
BERNIE won CNN focus group: http://www.politicususa.com/2015/10/14/cnn-focus-group-bernie-sanders-wo...
BERNIE won FOX focus group: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/democratic-debate-bernie-sanders_561...
BERNIE won the FUSION focus group: http://fusion.net/story/214234/bernie-sanders-wins-democratic-debate-foc...
BERNIE won the FACEBOOK and TWITTER poll: http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2015/10/14/bernie-sanders-wins-debate-on-s...
BERNIE won the Google Analytics Enthusiasm poll: http://www.mediaite.com/online/bernie-sanders-wins-at-least-by-google-an...
Clearly the revolution was not being televised to the NYT.
Here's a tip for the NYT, try integrity for a change. It's working for Bernie and it'll work for you.
1
Its her primary to lose.
5
Is the Media so desperate, that it is willing to be so transparent? Whether re-writing history, pre-calling horse races, or attempting to sway voters with blaring headlines and slant piece after slant piece, it is a given that the current media landscape lacks greatly in any ethical grounding, much less veracity. That you no longer attempt at any veneer respectable distancing and neutrality and instead load up on hyperbole, all of it stinks of desperation. The despair is likely from detecting via the surge of Bernie Sanders, that the American People have had enough of being mislead. And democratic voters have a very fresh memory, what with the latest corporate brands spokesperson who still sits in office under their party - our lost trust sits there actively signing away what is left of America to our new overlords, while the former middle class litters the burnt landscape of The America that Was which smolders in ruins. Bernie Sanders is a true gentleman, that much is clear.
67
By his own admission, Mr. Sanders positions are so far to the left that he would require an activist voting blocks to enact what he wants to do over the heads of an expected do-nothing congress. Getting the "middle class" behind him on tax policy is just untenable given the huge diversity of opinion in this population. He's looking for a revolution and that's not just done any more.
Hillary's positions are rooted in the reality of the day. She knows will be severe opposition towards any re-distribution of tax liabilities in favor of the middle class. She will have to compromise, use give-and-take and work within the corridors of power to enact any change.
So here we have it: should we be fanciful and idealistic and be left with nothing in the end, or be realistic and take what we get.
Hillary's positions are rooted in the reality of the day. She knows will be severe opposition towards any re-distribution of tax liabilities in favor of the middle class. She will have to compromise, use give-and-take and work within the corridors of power to enact any change.
So here we have it: should we be fanciful and idealistic and be left with nothing in the end, or be realistic and take what we get.
23
Are you suggesting supporting a continuation of the Status Quo simply because, hey, any reality outside the current paradigm is just, well, not possible?
Where did you learn what the political "reality" is anyway? The GOP's stonewalling on every progressive issue? Well, I suggest we be bold and brave enough to reject the "Progressive Reality" that the GOP has tried to push us into.
With respect,
Jim
Where did you learn what the political "reality" is anyway? The GOP's stonewalling on every progressive issue? Well, I suggest we be bold and brave enough to reject the "Progressive Reality" that the GOP has tried to push us into.
With respect,
Jim
Hillary, Bernie, Joe, or whoever can expect, if elected, the same sort of Republican cooperation that Obama has gotten for his two terms or that Slick Willie got (an impeachment attempt) when he triangulated them. Only an ongoing realistic threat of marginalization will bring the other party (or, rather, drag them kicking and screaming) to the table, or force the sane ones to push their nut jobs out of the party.
Who will be better at generating and maintaining this threat? Obama and Slick Willie never really tried to go down this path. Bernie will try by presenting an alternate and plausible picture of the country's reality and what needs to be done to dent the power of the oligarchy and bring its behavior under the control of law and a rejuvenated political system.
The reality of the day is that the oligarchs run things, and if Hillary's positions are rooted in this reality she will be fighting a defensive war, trying not to lose rather than going for the win.
Who will be better at generating and maintaining this threat? Obama and Slick Willie never really tried to go down this path. Bernie will try by presenting an alternate and plausible picture of the country's reality and what needs to be done to dent the power of the oligarchy and bring its behavior under the control of law and a rejuvenated political system.
The reality of the day is that the oligarchs run things, and if Hillary's positions are rooted in this reality she will be fighting a defensive war, trying not to lose rather than going for the win.
The GOP controlled congress will not let Clinton get one thing done.
I've got to say that although Hillary did really well last night, particularly in emphasizing her education ( Yale law degree, folks) and experience. I was really impressed with Martin O'Malley. I have always thought that overturning Glass-Stiegel was a huge mistake, and if it weren't for their difference of opinion on this issue, he could make a good running mate for Hillary. Dodd Frank is not being enforced, and maybe they can find common ground as to how enforcement of that law would put some basic controls over the huge banks.
I was surprised and pleased to find that another Dem has such potential in the arena.
I was surprised and pleased to find that another Dem has such potential in the arena.
8
Love and Marriage, love and Marriage,
Go together like The Street and Hillary
This I tell you brother
you won't get one without the other.
Go together like The Street and Hillary
This I tell you brother
you won't get one without the other.
Did I watch the same debate? She tells Sanders that the vote on guns wasn't complicated, but simply says she got Iraq vote wrong and should be given a pass. This despite the fact that both Sanders and Chaffee got that vote right!
And, while democrats may have been happy with the e-mail answer, it is not only a congressional committee looking into the mess.
Her claim of changing her mind in the face of new evidence on issue after issue sounded rehearsed, and neglected the plain poll driven nature of her opinions.
Biden should be emboldened.
And, while democrats may have been happy with the e-mail answer, it is not only a congressional committee looking into the mess.
Her claim of changing her mind in the face of new evidence on issue after issue sounded rehearsed, and neglected the plain poll driven nature of her opinions.
Biden should be emboldened.
37
Please. Mrs. Clinton never "changes her mind." She... evolves.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
Here's the difference: Chafee and Clinton admitted they got votes wrong. Sanders is so rigid, he won't admit to getting anything wrong. That's one of many reasons this Democrat who voted for Jesse Jackson and Dennis Kucinich doesn't "feel the Bern".
Bernie Sanders had credible solutions. If Sanders had the biggest donors and we had a free press that didn't need the money and influence of the biggest donors, don't you think that news media would have pointed out that "I'm a progressive, but I like to get things done" is hand-waving? That promising to keep fighting for us, to keep doing more, like as a senator representing Wall Street, asking them to cut it out, is not credible? That interrupting with a paean to how capitalism makes her think of small businesses (pass throughs that donate?) is more reminiscent of Eric Cantor than the FDR she claims to be? That promising Obama's approach and more, is not explaining how we can make Republicans offers they can't refuse, to be able to legislate where Obama couldn't? That a vote for the Brady Bill's mandatory waiting periods without instant background checks, and shouting, will not get us to agree on gun controls? That the point of saying Americans are sick of Clinton emails was not to help Clinton, but to drive debate to the issues that matter? That Bernie Sanders' best line was that claiming we can beef up regulators won't work when, "Congress doesn't regulate Wall Street; Wall Street regulates Congress?
Hillary Clinton won the debate and is a very good politician, but that doesn't mean that loser liberalism and the American people would win with Hillary Clinton.
Hillary Clinton won the debate and is a very good politician, but that doesn't mean that loser liberalism and the American people would win with Hillary Clinton.
18
While my opinion may not count for the commentariat, I thought Bernie Sanders was by far the most compelling candidate. To me, Sanders was the voice for more inclusive policy, the voice for change in domestic and foreign policy.
Sanders won me.
Sanders won me.
164
Hillary won me over. I am a Vermonter who has voted happily for Bernie many times and like the guy but he's just not presidential material. He has no interest in foreign affairs (Putin will feel regret, really??) and is really on the wrong side of gun control. Good guy with some good thoughts but I will joyfully vote for Hillary and do not want Biden to join the race and add more chaos. I think many of us have taken Hillary for granted but last night I stopped and just admired her. Time for a woman in the Oval Office, a really really good one.
759
Putin will feel regret, yes, really...
Do we feel regret now for invading Afghanistan and Iraq?
Do we feel regret now for invading Afghanistan and Iraq?
1
That outsiders can't solve the regional war that is Syria applies to Russia as well as the USA. Russians will now be targeted by ISIS and Chechen sympathizers. Syria will become for Russia what Iraq became for the USA.
Bernie is at least consistent. I also think he is correct on this one.
Bernie is at least consistent. I also think he is correct on this one.
You mean like Elizabeth Warren, a really good one?
There is the funny thing called "the voters" who will determine who wins. The media seems to have trouble with this concept.
23
Not thinking so. She really still said very little other than she should be president because she is a woman. That's how she'll be different than Obama. I contrast this to Sanders who actually had a vision and purpose to convey regarding economic inequity.
26
This newspaper is infatuated with Hillary Clinton. So far several headlines from all quarters of the newspaper have been touting her in one way or another. This new one is borderline love-fest.
26
With his "email" sacrifice bunt, Sanders has earned himself a cabinet post, if not a seat on the ticket.
7
Speaking as one who's right of center, but who has occasionally voted Democrat, I think that the Democratic Party is treading a perilous path by pushing Ms. Clinton.
I'd consider Sanders and I'd seriously consider Biden. Clinton, who's proven to be deceitful and treasonous, would never get my vote. How the candidate who is most distrusted by swing voters could become the party's darling is somewhat bewildering.
I'd consider Sanders and I'd seriously consider Biden. Clinton, who's proven to be deceitful and treasonous, would never get my vote. How the candidate who is most distrusted by swing voters could become the party's darling is somewhat bewildering.
43
This is a perfect example of the Rove strategy John Townsend describes above, the relentless GOP hammering on Clinton's "trustworthiness"… which in fact is no worse, and actually a whole lot better, than any of her opponents in the GOP Klown Kar.
"Hillary Clinton Debate Performance Chills Biden Movement"
Really? According to whom?
Jonathan's piece contains exactly four quotes. Two of them are from Democratic strategists (unaffiliated?), one is from a Nevada congresswoman (who has endorsed Clinton) and the last is from John Podesta (Clinton's campaign chairman).
The collective opinion of these four individuals determines whether or not the Biden "movement" (yes, the headline actually used the word 'movement') had been "chilled"?
I like Jonathan Martin but this is not journalism worthy of the New York Times.
Really? According to whom?
Jonathan's piece contains exactly four quotes. Two of them are from Democratic strategists (unaffiliated?), one is from a Nevada congresswoman (who has endorsed Clinton) and the last is from John Podesta (Clinton's campaign chairman).
The collective opinion of these four individuals determines whether or not the Biden "movement" (yes, the headline actually used the word 'movement') had been "chilled"?
I like Jonathan Martin but this is not journalism worthy of the New York Times.
20
Joe is not getting in, having authored the Crime Bill that encouraged incarceration nation and the Bankruptcy Bill that hung college debts around a generation's necks. If he steps in all the skeletons and plagiarized speeches will surface- quickly.
Second, Hillary lost every focus group last night- something lost on the pundit class and the political reporters of all MSM. There is a huge disconnect between Main Street and DC.
Second, Hillary lost every focus group last night- something lost on the pundit class and the political reporters of all MSM. There is a huge disconnect between Main Street and DC.
7
After reading through today's new and opinion sections I believe it is entirely impossible for the Times to demonstrate that they are unbiased. They are clearly on Clinton's side, so much so that they are ignoring what the UN-biased among us saw. Sanders is genuine. Can you honestly say that about Clinton?
32
Amazing spin NYTImes. Six polls show Bernie Sanders won by a landslide, but you declare Hillary the winner. I wonder who the NYTimes wants to win this election? The polls were CNN, Time, Drudge, DemBase, Happening Now, and POLL. Just google it.
50
HILLARY CARRIED THE DEBATE . . .
...though Bernie was completely authentic. He cannot win due to his use of semantics ... for God's sake even get a PR person to spin your rhetoric. He cannot win ... but he has accomplished one thing ... as he seems to have moved Mrs. Clinton towards his positions.
And, just compare the GOP clown car performances of 2011 and this year to last night's Democratic debate ... which was civilized and had real substance.
...though Bernie was completely authentic. He cannot win due to his use of semantics ... for God's sake even get a PR person to spin your rhetoric. He cannot win ... but he has accomplished one thing ... as he seems to have moved Mrs. Clinton towards his positions.
And, just compare the GOP clown car performances of 2011 and this year to last night's Democratic debate ... which was civilized and had real substance.
22
It's not just semantics that gets in the way of his ideas, it's his manner of posing his own questions and answering them with obvious responses, slowing down his delivery by half of what it could be. Whenever I listen to him for a few minutes I keep thinking, "Enough with the questions, just say it!"
As a right winger I must say I was impressed with Hillary and am convinced that she will breeze through the election and into the Oval Office.
She is clearly the best choice among many bad choices.
She is clearly the best choice among many bad choices.
13
You must like her because she is R lite: war monger and Wall Street supporter.
That anyone would still believe that the election cycle is worth anything, is sad.
Your leaders are chosen for you (see article about 135 families or so, financing most of the election); the rest is just a circus to make people feel good.
Your leaders are chosen for you (see article about 135 families or so, financing most of the election); the rest is just a circus to make people feel good.
A favorite campaign trick the GOP pulls (really the brain-child of Karl Rove) is to highlight an apparent GOP weakness, and through misinformation, out-and-out blatant lies, and code-words make it the weakness of the opponent. We´re seeing this gimmick play out now with the GOP assault on Hillary Clinton's character being coded "untrustworthy" (or "untrustable" as McCarthy so succinctly put it) and "dishonest" and brazenly being attributed to Clinton at every turn without qualification. So persistent is this character assassination effort that I see this theme embraced in many of the comments here. Even in debate analyses at hand now, conservative pundits keep trying to make it an issue peculiar to Clinton where it could just as well or even more appropriately be applied to most of the GOP candidates.
12
Your analysis of Rove's technique does not apply to the truth that Hillary is untrustworthy,
5
Joe Biden has already ran for President twice.
The first time he dropped out after plagiarising someone.
The second time he got 1% of the vote in Iowa.
He has no money, no organization.
After the example of the war criminal Cheney, Biden walks on water as VP.
He should retire at the top of his game. Play good grandpa to his fatherless grandchildren.
The first time he dropped out after plagiarising someone.
The second time he got 1% of the vote in Iowa.
He has no money, no organization.
After the example of the war criminal Cheney, Biden walks on water as VP.
He should retire at the top of his game. Play good grandpa to his fatherless grandchildren.
8
Clinton was great! Sanders was good! O'Malley was an interesting surprise! Bernie Sanders is a one or two issue candidate and Hillary Clinton has a good handle on all of the issues and can speak clearly, forcefully, and with passion about the issues that matter to most Americans. Joe Biden is a non-issue -- he wasn't even there! Kudos to all five debaters for showing America that Democrats speak to the issues, respect divergent viewpoints, and can disagree without personally attacking each other as we have seen in other debates this year. Proud to be an American after watching the Democratic debate
26
Yes she speaks well. But, as Barack asked you 7 years agom can you believe in her? Remember, Dems are all about emotion. Will emotion award her the trust of everyday Democrats?
Barack speaks wonderfully. NOW go ask 60% of the country if they are happy to have him running things, largely without the other two branches of government even involved?
Barack speaks wonderfully. NOW go ask 60% of the country if they are happy to have him running things, largely without the other two branches of government even involved?
3
Whatever the number of Sanders' issues, included is the most gut wrenching issue of all. The subjugation and impoverishment of the middle class by an increasingly privileged oligarchy. Only Bernie seems to be interested in this continuous danger to most Americans. If the middle class hopes to survive, it would do well to attend.
The middle class is dying all right - but because Barack is taking thousands of dollars from each family to redistribute to the one-half of one percent of us that were uninsured before.
This highlights how woefully inefficient all rdistribution scams really are. Not only have families lost their insurer more than once, but deductibles are up in the thousands of dollars. The worker is being FORCED into dependency and living off the government.
WHY?
This highlights how woefully inefficient all rdistribution scams really are. Not only have families lost their insurer more than once, but deductibles are up in the thousands of dollars. The worker is being FORCED into dependency and living off the government.
WHY?
I'm not a big Hillary fan but I thought she was the clear winner last night. She was poised, prepared and personable. She may even have given pause to the cockier members of the House Select Committee who will now have to prepare a little harder to try and bring her down.
4
I think that this article misses reality. I spoke with my children and their spouses, ages 27-35. They found her smug and in some cases elitist. Her approach may work in some corners, but to the next generation, not so much. It appears to them at least, that it's the same "old" thing. Frankly, I was somewhat impressed with O'Malley.
6
I was quite impressed with O'Malley too, I think he'd be a great choice for VP for either Sanders or Clinton.
I'm no fan of Hillary but she dominated the debate. She is a pro among amateurs. Bernie lacks the courage to go after Hillary. There are numerous grounds too: she is a hawk. Goldman Sachs has paid her for speeches. The Clinton Foundation takes money from Arab Monarchies etc. But Bernie doesn't want to be punished by the Democratic machine. He will ultimately endorse Hillary and we will get more of the same.
12
What is wrong with the Clinton Foundation taking money from foreign countries? It is not a political PAC. It's mission, verbatim: "We convene businesses, governments, NGOs, and individuals to improve global health and wellness, increase opportunity for girls and women, reduce childhood obesity, create economic opportunity and growth, and help communities address the effects of climate change."
1
Maybe Sanders just doesn't believe in negative politics.
Let's be frank. She's the current leader among the democratic candidates. Her first and primary goal is not to say something that will offend her constituency or paint herself into a corner. She took a very safe and predictable stance - apple pies and American flags. Bernie Sanders came across as the smartest person in the room, the most honest person in the room, and ultimately the most compelling candidate. I think I speak for many voters when I say I don't care how slickly "presidential" they appear, I want substance. I started the night rooting for Jim Webb. I will vote for Sanders as the Democratic nominee or write him in. He is exactly what the country needs as it sinks deeper into corruption and vulnerability.
1
The difference between the Democrats and the Republicans was so striking last night. One side is the clown car, and one side has all the adults. All of those supporting shutting down the government (the clown car party) should start mailing back their SS checks, their student loan checks, pay for their own private fire/police/trash/water/sewer services, stuff their gold and silver under the bed (oh yeah those mighty dollars are nothing but paper backed by the U.S. government). Not me. California did their own 'elect the clown' and then had to bring back Jerry Brown to right the car. It wasn't fun, it wasn't pleasant, and boy am I glad it is over. Look at where the Republican party is now. In California most party offices have closed and don't look for them to open up any time soon. National Republican Party, no need for a magic looking glass, look west, and you will see your near future. Grow Up!
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would it be a good thing to have a clinton-sanders ticket?
am i naive to think this would work?
am i naive to think this would work?
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Yes, I do actually think that's naive. The VP candidate should be Julian Castro - young to her old, Latino to her white, fresh face to her decades on the national scene. I think it could be a winning team, which God knows we need, no matter which of the Republicans ends up as the candidate. There's not an acceptable one in the bunch, and some of them are terrifying.
4
Relegate Bernie to veep status? Never! He couldn't possibly put up with her opportunism and hypocrisy.
thanks for your reply eleanor.
i appreciate it.
i will look into julian castro.
go socal! :)
i appreciate it.
i will look into julian castro.
go socal! :)
Notice the verbiage of the headlines: now, Hillary "chills Biden movement," last night she "turned up the heat on Sanders." Both assessments unfairly paint Hillary as an antagonist. She debated deftly (as did Sanders, to be sure) and supported herself, which is what a candidate is supposed to do!
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It simply reinforces the obvious. The Times bumbling, stumbling political coverage sees nothing but a horse race, even 111 days before any votes that count. This is nothing more than an opinion piece that wandered off the reservation of the Opinion Pages.
1
The Benghazi "scandal" has suddenly become a Republican embarrassment, and the inquiry into private emails now appears as it was intended--a partisan fishing expedition aimed at slandering a formidable political rival. Last night the Democrats showed they are focused on real issues, not this kind of personal and political slander. Bernie Sanders was magnificent in coming to Hillary's defense in his refreshing expression of exasperation with her "damn emails." This was a debate that served the common good for once.
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Re "The Benghazi "scandal" has suddenly become a Republican embarrassment"
It may well be an embarrassment, but there is a real Benghazi scandal out there but not the one GOPers like to talk about. It´s real and needs to be exposed for what it is. The GOP-dominated congress slashed the diplomatic security budget by half a billion dollars. The fact that Sec. Clinton warned that this cut would hamper security efforts and jeopardize the safety of diplomats seems to have been lost on the GOP protagonists, and even more importantly her warnings were ignored. And when lives were indeed lost because of inadequate security, the GOP had no scruples ranting and raving about the scrambling that the Benghazi incident caused in the State Dep´t totally oblivious to their own culpability, and assessing blame on others. This is disgusting shameless hypocrisy.
It may well be an embarrassment, but there is a real Benghazi scandal out there but not the one GOPers like to talk about. It´s real and needs to be exposed for what it is. The GOP-dominated congress slashed the diplomatic security budget by half a billion dollars. The fact that Sec. Clinton warned that this cut would hamper security efforts and jeopardize the safety of diplomats seems to have been lost on the GOP protagonists, and even more importantly her warnings were ignored. And when lives were indeed lost because of inadequate security, the GOP had no scruples ranting and raving about the scrambling that the Benghazi incident caused in the State Dep´t totally oblivious to their own culpability, and assessing blame on others. This is disgusting shameless hypocrisy.
2
This is what educated adults look and sound like.
I do believe that Hillary Clinton will remind this panel about their responsibility in taking care of Americans overseas, and to make sure not to cut vital funding. In fact I believe that the entire Clinton team will play these hearings as a campaign commercial shoot. Mrs. Clinton will tell the panel that they are full of it and make them prove her wrong.
It will be Hillary Clinton in charge of these hearings. Not the other way around. Trey Gowdy will be sorry he ever called her up. He and his flunkies will be put in a Hillary ad. And the hapless Repubs will be put in an endless video loop and served up ad nauseam.
It will be Hillary Clinton in charge of these hearings. Not the other way around. Trey Gowdy will be sorry he ever called her up. He and his flunkies will be put in a Hillary ad. And the hapless Repubs will be put in an endless video loop and served up ad nauseam.
1
Nonsense! Biden is ideal antidote for voters who can't stomach another Clinton and cotton to Sanders but believe he's "not presidential enough" and ultimately unelectable. What last night's debate proved is that the field needs Biden to do what Obama did in '08, without the Messiah complex propaganda. Biden is not just a known quantity, he's a "what you see is what you get" candidate who can go up any Republican and give as good as he gets.
89
Perhaps true, but do we know anything about his economic, social, fiscal, military policies? I haven't heard anything about the issues from Biden. Should he distance himself from Obama with 1 1/2 years left in his term? How can he do that? Personally I believe Biden has had enough....he's been through a lot and probably needs a break - in the form of retirement.
I agree that Biden is awesome, and I think most of what would make him a great candidate can be found in Hillary- experience, ability to negotiate, and a healthy dose of realism. I think it's pretty sexist to assume that Bill = Hillary. She is her own woman with her own beliefs. "Another Clinton" is not a valid argument . I share a last name with my husband and that does not mean I share the same views or leadership style.
Voted for the war in Iraq, as the VP, is supporting TPP. As Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committe, permitted Anita Hill to be dragged through the mud during the Clarence Thomas hearings. Biden never called three women to testify who were subpoened to discuss Thomas' alleged inappropriate behavior. Son Hunter joined the board of a Ukranian oil and natural gas company (Spring of 2014) which coincided with the lobbying of Congress by the company (Burisma Holdings) about its role in the Ukraine at a time when there were call. in the Senate for increased aid to assist the country in improving its energy efficieny.
5
Sure-footed? "I worked for Wall Street"? Are you kidding us? Her presentation was full of gaffes and only tolerable to the Choir.
Ready to fight? You misunderstand how discourse works. The more she fights against Biden, the more she promotes Biden.
Or did you miss the draft Biden commercials airing in multiple media markets this morning? Tsk tsk tsk. The Old Gray Lady's vision is almost gone, isn't it?
Ready to fight? You misunderstand how discourse works. The more she fights against Biden, the more she promotes Biden.
Or did you miss the draft Biden commercials airing in multiple media markets this morning? Tsk tsk tsk. The Old Gray Lady's vision is almost gone, isn't it?
35
I don't think that you were listening! Sure-footed she was. There is nothing "old and grey" about her. She is gonna WIN!
1
Bernie is pushing Hillary to be a better candidate ... am not sure how Biden could shift this fortunate movement. We all need to give thanks to Bernie, a noble, up front politician.
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Isn't that the problem with Hillary as a candidate? She is adapting her platform to conform to her challenger, Bernie's, positions. How can we, the voters, discern if her proposals during this 2016 presidential run are genuine? I would argue that if they were genuine she would have been championing these positions long before Bernie came along as an actual challenger for the DEM ticket.
1
I completely agree.
Hillary should take up , but moderate, many of Sanders' points. He is noble and up front. Certainly would have a place in any Clinton administration, I believe.
Hillary should take up , but moderate, many of Sanders' points. He is noble and up front. Certainly would have a place in any Clinton administration, I believe.
That's exactly what's happening! Bernie Sanders is driving the conversation and all of us are winning as a result of it. But to all of you Hillary doubters, just remember what happened to Barack. He was elected in a great wave of hope and arrived at a place where The Other Side was waiting and vowing not to play fair. Hillary already knows the depths to which They will dive to create chaos out of our government - out of sheer spite. She has proven over and over that she can take it and still get things done.
3
UH....Biden doesn't seem to be running. But the Media wants him to run. What is wrong with that picture? All the Demos that showed up seemed pretty committed. I don't get why there's all the pressure on Biden. He has a full time job as VP.
18
Punditry be damned, Sanders' response to the gun control issue was accurate, not unsteady. Hillary's decisive comments on the subject certainly will not change any minds outside the choir. Her dismissive remark about Denmark should be taken for what it is: that the U.S. is too busy bombing countries and protecting the insurance industry to mess around with anything as petty as universal health care. While I would be glad to see the Biden show end, I will definitely be caucusing for Bernie.
185
Hillary's comment about Denmark was merely to point out the difference in size of population....I think that's all.
Mrs. Crook reacted to political dinosaurs. The winner was republicans
2
You are deluded. The Demos at least debated the issues. .
21
It's hard to take this article seriously with so little mention of Bernie Sanders, who by all public review certainly played a much more important role in the debate than one would know from reading this fluff.
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The driving forces behind a supposed Biden boomlet are individuals who would work for the candidate....and the news media, always eager for a political story with the added bonus of taking Hillary Clinton down a peg whenever possible.
Joe Biden seems like a hell of a nice guy, but I have never sensed any groundswell of public demand for a Biden run in 2016.
Joe Biden seems like a hell of a nice guy, but I have never sensed any groundswell of public demand for a Biden run in 2016.
24
Hillary could have "evolved" to anti-TPP and Wall St. positions a lot earlier. She was traveling around the country for 2-4 yrs. talking with Dems; she knew there was great desire for Wall St. reform and for TPP review, and she had plenty of time to study the issues. She didn't think she'd need to change her positions to get the nomination, but alas, it's the only way forward for her to the nomination. But don't count on her to come thru on these issues.