It's long been very clear that "small government" Republicans (and others, as well) only want to reduce those parts of government they don't benefit from. That's only one reason why you really can't take almost anything the Republicans propose seriously. Ideology is great, but self-interest trumps all (pardon the very appropriate pun).
27
There are things we don't like about the way the Koch Brothers do business, but that doesn't mean they're violating any laws. Instead, they're taking advantage of longstanding laws that provide tax benefits. All of us do the same thing -- if we can. When you buy a home financed with a mortgage you deduct the interest. You might think that government shouldn't support home buyers -- while home renters get no tax benefit. But you take the deduction. And if you have six kids, you deduct them as dependents, which childless taxpayers can't do. So government is subsidizing procreation.
If you want to protest all these tax benefits, you could file a tax return with zero deductions. How many people have done that?
If you want to protest all these tax benefits, you could file a tax return with zero deductions. How many people have done that?
4
"A highly principled organization against corporate welfare wouldn't accept corporate welfare. Period."
One could say exactly the same thing about political candidates who criticize Super PACs but then take money from them. Principle there?
One could say exactly the same thing about political candidates who criticize Super PACs but then take money from them. Principle there?
7
The Koch's largely run extraction and other polluting businesses. Whatever ideology is driving them, they will greatly benefit from less regulation and smaller government that can't enforce what regulations exist. The lower tax rates and elimination of inheritance tax will help the Kochs' generate a aristocracy.
20
Red state corporate welfare at its worst. Crummy schools and scant social welfare in Arkansa, but a new steel mill which will saturate the market and which will apparently net absolutely zero jobs at a cost of 100s of millions to the state of Akansas in terms of lost tax revenue and up-front costs.. Made me feel kinda sick. Of course, the lavish giveaway to the Kochs (net worth of $100,000,000,000.00 and growing) in a state ranked close to last in educational spending strikes many of the conservative commenters as simply savvy realpolitik.
20
Another example of the cognitive dissonance gripping your once great nation. The rest of the world dearly wishes you take back your government and make it work for all of the hard working Americans which was the original intent when you gained your independence.
10
And yesterday Charles Koch went on cbs to talk about his involvement in politics, in the form of huge gifts to candidates. Seems he is concerned about "special interest groups."
You just can't make this stuff up. Apparently the Koch's have decided to take advantage of their fame and go on the offensive, so they are all over the media claiming what's up is down.
You just can't make this stuff up. Apparently the Koch's have decided to take advantage of their fame and go on the offensive, so they are all over the media claiming what's up is down.
18
"They did it first!" is the mantra of self-justification of these juveniles.
3
Sorry to see ad hominem vilification of the Kochs and the Tea Party here as opposed to factual investigation of corporate welfare. Both Paul Krugman and the Heritage Foundation agree that government export credit simply redistributes jobs and neither creates nor supports them. So Mr. Nocera's claim that the Big River Steel could not happen were it not for export credit is misleading. Speaking in terms of opportunity cost, private investment in some other project is not forthcoming that would not have required taxpayer subsidy. The larger problem is that nearly every developed country offers export credit, and they even coordinate on it formally. Corporate welfare is an international issue. It's great for the wealthy recipients, but everybody else is paying for it.
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/06/24/exim-irony/
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2015/06/the-end-of-exim-no-thre...
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/06/24/exim-irony/
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2015/06/the-end-of-exim-no-thre...
2
The party of big business ,is the party of big profits at the expense of taxpayers. There is nothing principled about the Koch's or the Republican Party. Expanding steel production in Arkansas,but with very little risk of the glut they are creating,the Koch's are profiteers, of the worst sort. They are the ones who support bad policies that endanger this country. They are no different than the last Bush administration when tackling foreign involvement or a national catastrophe by throwing trillions of dollars at a problem, that they will personally profit from. It is why the electorate has opposed candidates such as Romney, who have taken government money to pay bonuses to executives ,then tried to blackmail us by demanding more money. All the Tea Party is,as well as the Koch's ,are lobbyists for financial profit. Simple solution is one man ,one vote,not two brothers with billions to sling . Any corporation that has any financial investors not from this country should not have ANY political access. No donations,no PAC's. This one thing the Supreme Court got wrong. Very wrong.
7
The other, and too often unmentioned, boondoggle in the world of America's corporate welfare is the military-industrial complex. A recent crash of a military plane in Afghanistan contained a half dozen military personnel and more than a half dozen "military contractors."
Since when is the $630B+ annually for our military so strained financially that we have to pay for "contractors," who are in companies like Halliburton, Dick Cheney's company.
People, we need to vote in every election.
Since when is the $630B+ annually for our military so strained financially that we have to pay for "contractors," who are in companies like Halliburton, Dick Cheney's company.
People, we need to vote in every election.
12
The most insidious part of the story is this:
“We don’t have the budget to hire people to do due diligence,” says Grant Tennille, who was then running the Arkansas Economic Development Commission. “If people like the Kochs walk in the door, with a reputation and money, that’s a big deal.”
The 'small government' Kochs, having succeeded in making government too small to hire the needed expertise, get to benefit by appearing to provide the necessary stamp of approval on a project for which they are major beneficiaries.
It's about making government a terrier instead of a German shepherd to guard the hen house.
“We don’t have the budget to hire people to do due diligence,” says Grant Tennille, who was then running the Arkansas Economic Development Commission. “If people like the Kochs walk in the door, with a reputation and money, that’s a big deal.”
The 'small government' Kochs, having succeeded in making government too small to hire the needed expertise, get to benefit by appearing to provide the necessary stamp of approval on a project for which they are major beneficiaries.
It's about making government a terrier instead of a German shepherd to guard the hen house.
10
American Exceptionalism. It's a wonderful thing. It gives corporate kickbacks a delightful ring. Even though we oppose it, we will take your money. To do anything less would be make Koch World less sunny.
6
Joe you expect far too much of Republicans if you actually expect them to practice what they preach. Deprivation is something they practice on the other guy. Like the presidential GOP candidates they support, the Kochs are liars and charlatans. It's all snake oil.
7
If steel is slumping why another plant? Is this plant going to be so efficient and/or cost effective that it will take away what business there is left?
3
The Kochs, since the 1920s, have been instrumental in union bashing. It was fundamentally racist -- we don't want to call black men "brother" -- and it flourished as the "Right to Work" laws the current generation of Kochs is working with ALEC to propagate. Money has been working against the general welfare for generations.
12
When these boys see the word "collective", they read "communist", as in "communist bargaining".
7
Crony capitalism is always problem. Reducing the size of government will reduce the amount of crony capitalism.
Just like crime goes away when you fire all the police, eh?
16
I bet you the plant doesn't even start up. We are about to be flooded with cheap China-made steel due the commodity price collapse that is now making its way up the food chain.
I'll bet the Kochs will fervently support tariffs on that steel once the dumping begins. Oh, the irony!
I'll bet the Kochs will fervently support tariffs on that steel once the dumping begins. Oh, the irony!
6
More sour grapes and envy from Joe Nocera.
The Koch brothers had the wisdom to select the right WASP parents while dodging the draft, destroying American jobs, evading taxes and community service.
USA! USA!
The Koch brothers had the wisdom to select the right WASP parents while dodging the draft, destroying American jobs, evading taxes and community service.
USA! USA!
7
Just goes to show that thanks to our government it is easier for a billionaire to make a million than it is for an average Joe to make a buck.
12
“Koch Industries has consistently opposed and actively lobbied against all forms of corporate welfare, including those we currently benefit from"
What breathtaking hypocrisy. The Koch family owes the bulk of its $billions to the production of fossil fuels. For decades they've privatized the benefits of "cheap" fossil energy while socializing the costs of the climate change their product causes. They spend $millions every year to keep the public confused about anthropogenic climate change and to influence elections directly, in order to obstruct effective policies to internalize climate change costs in the prices we pay for fossil fuels. They know that revenue stream would dry up if we all paid even a fraction of the full cost of their product when we fill our gas tanks or pay our utility bills.
As just one example, the Koch brothers have funded a "no-climate-tax pledge" campaign, in which they've enlisted over 400 US elected officials. Signers pledge they won't support a carbon tax without compensatory cuts in other taxes the Kochs pay. A carbon tax, by making alternative energy sources more competitive, would harness market forces to drive the transition to a global carbon-neutral economy, and the Koch want to delay that as long as possible, but the No-Climate-Tax pledge ensures their fortunes will be protected regardless.
Whatever pious sentiments may issue from their corporate PR apparatus, the Kochs are committed to no-one's welfare but their own.
What breathtaking hypocrisy. The Koch family owes the bulk of its $billions to the production of fossil fuels. For decades they've privatized the benefits of "cheap" fossil energy while socializing the costs of the climate change their product causes. They spend $millions every year to keep the public confused about anthropogenic climate change and to influence elections directly, in order to obstruct effective policies to internalize climate change costs in the prices we pay for fossil fuels. They know that revenue stream would dry up if we all paid even a fraction of the full cost of their product when we fill our gas tanks or pay our utility bills.
As just one example, the Koch brothers have funded a "no-climate-tax pledge" campaign, in which they've enlisted over 400 US elected officials. Signers pledge they won't support a carbon tax without compensatory cuts in other taxes the Kochs pay. A carbon tax, by making alternative energy sources more competitive, would harness market forces to drive the transition to a global carbon-neutral economy, and the Koch want to delay that as long as possible, but the No-Climate-Tax pledge ensures their fortunes will be protected regardless.
Whatever pious sentiments may issue from their corporate PR apparatus, the Kochs are committed to no-one's welfare but their own.
17
Given that the Koch Brothers and their wealthy friends and families have been such dominant forces in the Republican Party, why haven't they instructed their bought and paid for Congress and State Legislatures to enact legislation prohibiting corporate welfare? That's the real hypocrisy.
9
Speaking of the Koch brothers and their investments, why have we heard so little lately about the Keystone XL Pipeline? Could it be that tar sands oil, which costs $65 a barrel to produce and over $100 a barrel if newly developed, may not be a strong seller in a $40-per-barrel oil market? Had the pipeline been given the go-ahead, would its investors now be seeking a government bailout? And the whole tar sands enterprise: will it require heavy subsidies from the Canadian government to stave off collapse?
8
As alluded to by several commenters, the biggest threat and challenge to making changes in the current situation is the ignorance and indifference of the majority of American citizens. Those interests that have systematically influenced the changes in public policy that have led us to the current situation have worked purposefully, diligently, and incessantly within the system (mostly) to secure such benefits for themselves. Their hard work must be met with hard work. The option available to the rest of the citizens of the United States is to act with their Constitutionally-guaranteed privilege (and in my opinion obligation) to vote in an informed way for measures and representatives who will replace those policies that are not in the best interests of the nation. Today, I think that any objective assessment of the populace would conclude that too many are ignorant of how Government is designed to work (as opposed to how it is perceived to work), ignorant of the issues and the complex background of many, and too consumed with their own lives to be willing to give priority to the sustained effort needed to improve our government and country. Complaining and choosing sides based upon ideology are not enough. In the end, ignorance and involvement are personal choices. The choices that are made by a significant majority of Americans will define the future of our republic. As has been stated in many forms by numerous people, “we get the government that we deserve [sic]”
10
The Koch industry response to your query, that they are opposed to corporate welfare but will not put themselves at a competitive disadvantage is similar to Trump's position on bankruptcy laws. Trump's position on his companies' bankruptcy filings is that he has simply "taken advantage of the laws of this country." The Kochs, too, are simply taking advantage of "the marketplace." Sort of like having the cake and eating it.
8
So long as our politicians believe in paying taxpayer dollars for "infrastructure" improvements (you know, like canals, roads, bridges, etc.), our politicians will also throw out pork to public-private improvements. You know, like Solyndra.
Stop using my money to fund politically-connected businesses. Corporate welfare is abhorrent.
However, the same must also be said about politically-connected activist groups and policies, and agencies as well. TANF, SNAP, Social Security, unemployment insurance, Obamacare, etc., - all of these are precisely, exactly the equivalent of corporate welfare. There are a multitude of corporations making profit off these institutions.
So long as your politicians assert that they have the right to spend your money as they please, all kinds of redistribution will occur - whether to the corporation down the street, or the homeless up the street, neither is entitled to your wealth.
Throw them all out.
Stop using my money to fund politically-connected businesses. Corporate welfare is abhorrent.
However, the same must also be said about politically-connected activist groups and policies, and agencies as well. TANF, SNAP, Social Security, unemployment insurance, Obamacare, etc., - all of these are precisely, exactly the equivalent of corporate welfare. There are a multitude of corporations making profit off these institutions.
So long as your politicians assert that they have the right to spend your money as they please, all kinds of redistribution will occur - whether to the corporation down the street, or the homeless up the street, neither is entitled to your wealth.
Throw them all out.
2
Ah, the law of the jungle. Them as has, gets. If they need a decent wage, forget it. How about getting rid of the trillions in big fossil subsidies, since they already have enough and are sitting like a dinosaur on their dinosaur leavings.
10
No crumbs for the starving, but banquets for the rich. Try history for what happens when we go this far over the top with blind hatred for poor working schlubs.
15
Sadly too few people understand the role of government. I highly recommend you study Roman history as a precursor to making comments in the New York Times, you'd write a very different opinion with actual knowledge. Amazing the selfishness that comes with ignorance driven greed.
7
Thank you, Mr. Nocera, for using your business acumen and years of experience to report on this. Yes, the Koch Brothers and their brethren in the top 1% global financial elite are the real welfare queens. Time for Social Democracy in America so at least one-half the profits in businesses funded with OUR hard-earned taxpayer dollars come back into the system to support OUR infrastructure instead of the bloated pockets of the ultra-ultra-rich who got that way by stealing OUR work and money.
23
Obviously, when you need that much help financially to spread the risk, that is a project that should not be built, jobs or no jobs.
Look at Tesla's battery plant in Nevada. Where is the outrage? Oh, I get it. We heart Elon Musk, but we don't heart the Koch family.
Look at Tesla's battery plant in Nevada. Where is the outrage? Oh, I get it. We heart Elon Musk, but we don't heart the Koch family.
2
“Koch Industries has consistently opposed and actively lobbied against all forms of corporate welfare, including those we currently benefit from..."
The Koch's oligarch control of this country is so firm they don't even need to hide or deflect their self-serving shenanigans. They just say it out loud, without shame or compunction.
The Koch's oligarch control of this country is so firm they don't even need to hide or deflect their self-serving shenanigans. They just say it out loud, without shame or compunction.
15
Simply put, this is UNRESTRAINED capitalism. Pure "market capitalism", with no remnant of a "social contract" of the type that informed the 'Founding Fathers' of the United States. Capitalism is an economic system that can be compatible with socialist ideals when governmental leaders function with an active conscience, as happens in certain countries such as Sweden. Translated, that means that competition in the market must be regulated in such a way that the economic benefits derived from capitalism (private and public revenues) are equitably (reasonably apportioned) distributed, usually through a combination of taxation and social programs, among a country's population by its government. In today's America, conservatives have and still do actively oppose any redistribution of "their" money, although, by purchasing political representation, they have already succeeded in eliminating most restraints on the market. [@ EEE - You're correct that "our 'democracy' ... has lost its balance" and that "Citizen's United continues to help tilt those scales"; but it is NOT correct that "Simply put, this is 'Capitalism'."]
9
One of the most striking features of the Reagan Revolution has been the almost total disconnection of what people say and what they do in business.
11
One of the largest, least understood corporate welfare programs in America is that which, because of low wages paid at places like Walmart, that force workers to accept various forms of public assistance. This is a screaming, galloping scandal. We, the tax payers, are subsidizing their business by giving benefits to people who are working but don't make enough money to put food on the table. We are paying to make the owners of Walmart and many other businesses, like fast food dumps, rich by supporting their workers for them. Meanwhile, the heirs of the Walmart fortune, the family, owns more wealth than that held by the lower 42% of all Americans.
21
There's one additional element to this story that Mr. Nocera might want to address.
Koch hypocrisy on the proper role of government is hypocritical at best and downright corrosive at worst. This is a demonstration that government can play a critical role in the economy and in job creation - for players with enough money and the right connections to bend it to their will.
What Mr. Nocera and the Times might look into is how many of those Arkansas politicians were willing to jump when the Koch brothers said "frog" - because Koch-funded groups helped get them elected, and those same groups stand ready to fund their opponents in the next election cycle if they fail to deliver.
"...Indeed, the Kochs’ involvement helped give Arkansas legislators the comfort they needed to approve the incentive package. It gave “validity to the project,” one state legislator told the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette."
Comfort doesn't begin to describe it.
Koch hypocrisy on the proper role of government is hypocritical at best and downright corrosive at worst. This is a demonstration that government can play a critical role in the economy and in job creation - for players with enough money and the right connections to bend it to their will.
What Mr. Nocera and the Times might look into is how many of those Arkansas politicians were willing to jump when the Koch brothers said "frog" - because Koch-funded groups helped get them elected, and those same groups stand ready to fund their opponents in the next election cycle if they fail to deliver.
"...Indeed, the Kochs’ involvement helped give Arkansas legislators the comfort they needed to approve the incentive package. It gave “validity to the project,” one state legislator told the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette."
Comfort doesn't begin to describe it.
14
The Koch brothers, not so coincidentally, are the ones who created the Tea Party concept which led to the election of the Tea Party "know nothing" idiot politicians currently tying up the Congress into ignomious knots. Back in the good old days of Republican lore, Ronald Reagan's administration was able to use established anti trust laws to break up huge monopolies like Koch Industries. Remember when Republicans celebrate when Reagan broke up AT&T using the Sherman Act arguing that competition is beneficial to the health of free markets & consumers alike? That was before the resurrection of the Gilded Age & billionaires influence on government like Bill Gates & Kochs.
The FTC, the U.S. DOJ, state governments & private parties who are sufficiently affected by huge monopolies like this latest Koch brothers shell game to rig the system in their favor, has the power to enforce antitrust laws. In fact, the "Chicago School of economics" suggests that antitrust laws should focus solely on the benefits to consumers & to control & regulate overreaching economic power, as in Koch Industries case, in favor of the public interest. Just as the owner of Standard Oil Company, John D. Rockefeller in the 1870s used economic threats against competitors & secret rebate deals with railroads to build a huge monopoly in the oil business until the anti trust laws were used to break them up, Koch Industries is using their influence on government to impose huge burdens on the American people.
The FTC, the U.S. DOJ, state governments & private parties who are sufficiently affected by huge monopolies like this latest Koch brothers shell game to rig the system in their favor, has the power to enforce antitrust laws. In fact, the "Chicago School of economics" suggests that antitrust laws should focus solely on the benefits to consumers & to control & regulate overreaching economic power, as in Koch Industries case, in favor of the public interest. Just as the owner of Standard Oil Company, John D. Rockefeller in the 1870s used economic threats against competitors & secret rebate deals with railroads to build a huge monopoly in the oil business until the anti trust laws were used to break them up, Koch Industries is using their influence on government to impose huge burdens on the American people.
15
I love the Koch spokesman's response. It's like saying, "I'm normally opposed to cannibalism, but I was hungry, and little Johnny was right there."
18
The masters of the universe are exquisitely skilled at trickle-up - stealing from the poor to give to the rich. History shows that power and wealth will always do whatever it takes to get more power and wealth. This time, it might be fatal, so tragic ... you'd think anyone not at death's door would take a good honest look all around them and stop poisoning their hospitable home.
12
This is no surprise. This is how these players run the game. I am still looking for information about the recently scheme in the U.S. Senate to sell off our Strategic Petroleum Reserves to raise money for a "slush fund" to finance the war(s) against ISIS. Who was behind that? Who in their right mind would propose selling off our oil when the prices are so low? And who was the intended "buyer" who would be getting a ridiculous sweetheart deal from their friends in the senate? Is this how the Kochs will recoup the millions that they spent to get radicals like Thom Tillis (R-NC) elected?
Now the protections on our National Forests and National Parks are being dismantled and the talk is about selling off these resources and opening them for timber cutting and other acts of plunder.
We may be able to save our nation, but we are fast running out of time.
Now the protections on our National Forests and National Parks are being dismantled and the talk is about selling off these resources and opening them for timber cutting and other acts of plunder.
We may be able to save our nation, but we are fast running out of time.
13
This always seems to be the story . Stop entitlement programs for everybody else but let me keep mine. No steel demand and no real jobs created since the nearby steel mill has laid off workers due to low demand. So who makes out on this? Kochs, other billionaires in US and Germany!!
12
Vacant land is a net gain to a community, it requires no schools, sewer, police protection etc... Huge tax give aways become a burden to everyone else when increases in city services arise when all these "high-paying" jobs start draining already stressed resources. No matter though, the likes of the Koch Bros, banks, and others - have lined their pockets and are on to the next dim witted state or town to take our money and fool us that it is good for us.
5
Talk is cheap. Watch what people do if you want to know what they believe.
8
Hypocracy starts at the edge of the bank account. First rule of the conservation and concentration of wealth is: only risk OPM (Other People's Money) never your own. If the OP are the taxpayers, so much the better.
13
The largest and most comprehensive study with regard to Big River Steel was done by REMI (Regional Economic Models Inc.). They reported the following: “The recycling tax credit is the biggest issue. Without it, the fiscal impact to the state is generally positive, but if the opportunity cost of the foregone revenue behind the credit counts as a liability against the state budget to the tune of $240 million, then the fiscal impact is negative.” REMI concluded by saying ‘We cannot reconcile the projects optimistic projections and the state needs to review this carefully’. The report comes about as close as anyone hoping to garner more state contracts to saying ‘this is a horrible deal for Arkansas’. Yet the Kochs came onboard and magically all fiscal warnings vanished because their biggest and best business is purchasing Democracy.
http://talkbusiness.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Arkansas-BLR-Big-Rive...
Our labor is being exploited via wages that have been stagnant since the 70s and now we bleed a second time via corporate kickbacks. How much longer can we allow our country to be pillaged by the 1% and those who continue the lie of supply-side economics? And, there is no end in sight, Gov. Perry of TX. has said he thinks the Corp. tax rate should be 0% and he is not alone.
Wake up Americans the politicians will give it all to the Kochs if you let them. Have the self-respect to end your abuse and believe you deserve a slice of pie.
http://talkbusiness.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Arkansas-BLR-Big-Rive...
Our labor is being exploited via wages that have been stagnant since the 70s and now we bleed a second time via corporate kickbacks. How much longer can we allow our country to be pillaged by the 1% and those who continue the lie of supply-side economics? And, there is no end in sight, Gov. Perry of TX. has said he thinks the Corp. tax rate should be 0% and he is not alone.
Wake up Americans the politicians will give it all to the Kochs if you let them. Have the self-respect to end your abuse and believe you deserve a slice of pie.
20
Isn't this exactly the same – not "sort of similar," but exactly the same – explanation that Democratic political candidates give when they accept money from Super PACs?
"When I asked a Koch Industries spokesman about the company’s willingness to take advantage of tax incentives and other government goodies, he gave me the standard response to such queries. 'Koch Industries has consistently opposed and actively lobbied against all forms of corporate welfare, including those we currently benefit from... With that said, we will not put ourselves and our employees at a competitive disadvantage in the current marketplace.' In other words, the Kochs believe there is nothing hypocritical about employing government subsidies they oppose."
In other words: "We think it's terrible that these horrible financial creatures are allowed to exist, and that's why we press so vigorously for them to be outlawed. But in the meantime, as long as the other guys use them, we will too."
"When I asked a Koch Industries spokesman about the company’s willingness to take advantage of tax incentives and other government goodies, he gave me the standard response to such queries. 'Koch Industries has consistently opposed and actively lobbied against all forms of corporate welfare, including those we currently benefit from... With that said, we will not put ourselves and our employees at a competitive disadvantage in the current marketplace.' In other words, the Kochs believe there is nothing hypocritical about employing government subsidies they oppose."
In other words: "We think it's terrible that these horrible financial creatures are allowed to exist, and that's why we press so vigorously for them to be outlawed. But in the meantime, as long as the other guys use them, we will too."
1
How much of this hypocrisy will Americans put up with before we demand democracy from our political representatives?
10
Hypocrisy is a bedrock principle of the Koch Brothers and their supporters in the Media, Congress, SCOTUS, politics or the idiotic Tea Party.
The Kochs may get it, and the Tea Party may not, but most of the others facilitate this charade.
The Kochs may get it, and the Tea Party may not, but most of the others facilitate this charade.
7
And yet this morning one of the Koch brothers was given an opportunity by CBS to "charm" the American people and tell them how all he really wants is a decentralized government! What a crock! The media is the stenographer of the powerful. It is sickening.
As to corporate welfare, the Kochs and the other billionaires in the country lap up tax payer $$$ the way cats lap milk. At the same time they enjoy the peopl's largess they attack every program that provides a safety n'est to the workers they abuse and the humans whose water and air they pollute. But of course that isn't enough for them they want the entire government. As a result, they spend billions to own the Congress and the WhiteHouse. Of course, soon they may not have to spend so much because Obama is giving the TPP AND TPIP two corporate giveaways that will hand over ruble manning and law making in the hands not of the ke ted representatives of the giver earned (democracy) in the U S and Europe to a secret international arbitration panel that will decide which laws ge enacted and implemented and which don't on the single basis of whether or not that regulation or law negatively impacts profits. This is the Obama legacy!
Fight the TPP and the TPIP!
As to corporate welfare, the Kochs and the other billionaires in the country lap up tax payer $$$ the way cats lap milk. At the same time they enjoy the peopl's largess they attack every program that provides a safety n'est to the workers they abuse and the humans whose water and air they pollute. But of course that isn't enough for them they want the entire government. As a result, they spend billions to own the Congress and the WhiteHouse. Of course, soon they may not have to spend so much because Obama is giving the TPP AND TPIP two corporate giveaways that will hand over ruble manning and law making in the hands not of the ke ted representatives of the giver earned (democracy) in the U S and Europe to a secret international arbitration panel that will decide which laws ge enacted and implemented and which don't on the single basis of whether or not that regulation or law negatively impacts profits. This is the Obama legacy!
Fight the TPP and the TPIP!
4
The Koch's are like all republicans, they're against everything they can't benefit from. Once they can acquire a financial benefit, they're all for it. The Koch's speak out of both sides of their mouths.
12
"In other words, the Kochs believe there is nothing hypocritical about employing government subsidies they oppose."
Perfect illustration of chutzpah, is it not?!
Perfect illustration of chutzpah, is it not?!
8
Ha! We have met the enemy and they are us.
1
The Kochs do the same thing with desalination of water (Google Koch Membrane). Governments will spend trillions in coming years to desalinate and clean-up water, and the Kochs will be there with there hand out, directly and through their well-hidden surrogates.
5
Everybody gets some form of welfare. Why not the rich too? Let us not treat the rich differently from the poor. Equality now!
Nocera and the NYT are going after the Kochs because they support Republicans. How about going after the supporters of Democrats?
Many of the crown jewels of public companies are slowly becoming parts of private plutocratic empires like the Koch fiefdom under the zero interest rate monetary policy that has been frozen in since 2008.
2
"Those Tea Party idiots have no idea how business is done in the real world."
They also have no idea how government works. They do have racism and "others" hating down though.
They also have no idea how government works. They do have racism and "others" hating down though.
2
Money is always the motivation of the Koch brothers and big business. If you want to know their motivation or why they take the positions they take, just follow the money. They use politics and ideology to dress things up but in the end it's always about money.
1
Looks like the Kochs are willing to take advantage of government incentives (corporate welfare) and the IE Bank, when it serves their nefarious needs, then campaign to destroy both. Is that so they won't have to pay back their debts? An interview of Charles Koch was on CBS Sunday Morning, today. See, and hear, the lies for yourself. This is the "brains" and power behind the candidates. I don't know why he doesn't run for President, himself. He's be just as qualified as any of the knuckleheads he supports, sorta like Scott Walker.
2
Does this surprise anyone?
The Kochs and the rest of their ilk say words that are red meat to their base while all the while proceeding with business as usual. They hold the reins thanks to the Supreme Court. They will never abolish corporate welfare, but they will rail against it in public knowing full well that as long a their base is stirred up and foaming at the mouth at government their jaundiced eye will never swing in the direction of the 1%. It's a shell game with the American People as the mark.
The Kochs and the rest of their ilk say words that are red meat to their base while all the while proceeding with business as usual. They hold the reins thanks to the Supreme Court. They will never abolish corporate welfare, but they will rail against it in public knowing full well that as long a their base is stirred up and foaming at the mouth at government their jaundiced eye will never swing in the direction of the 1%. It's a shell game with the American People as the mark.
95
http://www.benjerry.com/whats-new/pay2play-stream This is a thorough profound inspiring documentary video (that is free to view this weekend online, before the first Democratic Party Debate) 90 minutes, that will inform you about the history of corporate greed.
We the People need to fight the Koch Empire... to be continued...
We the People need to fight the Koch Empire... to be continued...
1
We have only the Supreme Court to thank. With Citizens United and that Corporations "are People", the big dollars control and buy votes.
Truly sad and disappointing
Truly sad and disappointing
3
“Those Tea Party idiots have no idea how business is done in the real world.”
"But the Koch brothers sure do."
It did not hurt to concede some time ago that they are luckier, smarter-
or most especially wa-a-ay more wily than I.
"But the Koch brothers sure do."
It did not hurt to concede some time ago that they are luckier, smarter-
or most especially wa-a-ay more wily than I.
1
I'm all in favor of corporate welfare providing the jurisdictions extending the favors are given appropriate equity positions in the companies that benefit. Fair's fair, and all that.
1
Conservatives only oppose welfare if it is for the poor and needy, not for their corporate and rich corrupt cronies.
5
Democrats hated and condemned the Ex-Im Bank -- right up to the moment Republicans opposed it. And how do we know no one would ever finance these projects without the government -- we've never tried it. And doesn't this article even show why it is a bad idea -- government is financing a business which is just shifting jobs from one place to another. Why do we want government money to do that?
As for the Kochs, they are not being hypocritical. They are trying to stop subsidies to everyone, but if the government is going to offer them, no reason they're going to turn them down. I bet there are some tax deductions that the columnist may oppose but he'll take them if he qualifies.
As for the Kochs, they are not being hypocritical. They are trying to stop subsidies to everyone, but if the government is going to offer them, no reason they're going to turn them down. I bet there are some tax deductions that the columnist may oppose but he'll take them if he qualifies.
1
Don't forget, these guys have compiled a billion dollars of black money to pay all sorts of sub rosa operators and saboteurs to fill the airwaves and byways with lies.
2
I think of Orson Wells's corrupt cop character in Touch of Evil when he says, "Vargas'll turn you into one of these here starry-eyed idealists. They're the ones making all the real trouble in the world. Be careful, they're worse than crooks."
This article fully illustrates the joys of living in a corporotocracy embracing the concept of having much money gives one more merit.philosophy be damned.Its only expressed to confuse n entertain the little people while the rich guys impose their will and loot the system
2
Right on, Joe Nocera...but next time, please, will someone write an op-ed at the NYT on corporate welfare that does not rant on about the Koch brothers, as though they are the only ones at the troth? We should be just as concerned about the government welfare heading into the pockets of Buffett, Hollywood, trial lawyers, etc. but they don't get nearly the same media attention. This kind of welfare is just as liberal as it is conservative.
I don't understand how this is corporate welfare or how the writer of this article assumes the Koch brothers were philosophically against the way this project was funded.
Thanks Joe. All the investors will make BIG money, new workers will make a little, others will get laid off. Is this the American dream? This is the GOP American dream - support the top 1% let the 99% fend for themselves.
3
Koch Brothers are self righteous phonies.
2
Why do the Kochs need more money?
2
The believe they do God's work with the money God provides them.
Joe begins to sound like conservative purists in Congress and elsewhere who seek to eliminate the tax preferences enjoyed by the wealthy and even by corporations – a lot of progressives don’t know of this because they refuse to accept it. But it’s there, in a strong conviction against playing favorites of any kind with taxes – it’s the strongest element keeping alive a movement toward eliminating tax deductions of all kinds.
But who other than the ignorant and ideologically impenetrable can question the Koch’s resolve not to let competitors benefit by exploiting opportunities that they otherwise spurn for ideological reasons?
Yet Joe’s purpose today isn’t that general. It’s a defense of the Ex-Im Bank; and, unlike the Kochs, I can get on board with that unreservedly. We live in a world very different from the one we enjoyed between 1945 and 1980, in which we had far less competition to American industrial dominance. It’s an extremely competitive world of rising prosperity, and they clearly want to protect that prosperity for themselves more than a lot of our most conservative Americans want for America.
In an ideal world, there wouldn’t be a need for an EX-Im Bank, because nobody else desired to distort markets by the use of one. But the truth is that EVERYONE seeks to distort markets to benefit their own, and for us to be the only holdouts is about as dumb as a bag of hammers. We all should strongly support re-authorization of the Ex-Im Bank.
But who other than the ignorant and ideologically impenetrable can question the Koch’s resolve not to let competitors benefit by exploiting opportunities that they otherwise spurn for ideological reasons?
Yet Joe’s purpose today isn’t that general. It’s a defense of the Ex-Im Bank; and, unlike the Kochs, I can get on board with that unreservedly. We live in a world very different from the one we enjoyed between 1945 and 1980, in which we had far less competition to American industrial dominance. It’s an extremely competitive world of rising prosperity, and they clearly want to protect that prosperity for themselves more than a lot of our most conservative Americans want for America.
In an ideal world, there wouldn’t be a need for an EX-Im Bank, because nobody else desired to distort markets by the use of one. But the truth is that EVERYONE seeks to distort markets to benefit their own, and for us to be the only holdouts is about as dumb as a bag of hammers. We all should strongly support re-authorization of the Ex-Im Bank.
anyone wonder why they buy politicians ????
1
you can apply this statement from the column and apply it to government also.
“Those Tea Party idiots have no idea how business is done in the real world.”
“Those Tea Party idiots have no idea how business is done in the real world.”
Great points. But still getting on the Koch Bros for seeking out that horrible corporate welfare is a bit like getting on Warren Buffet for not sending in a supplementary tax check to the IR$ so his tab exceeds his secretary's. Hypocrisy all around. Or maybe just not a good argument within this otherwise right-on editorial.
Why a new steel mill in Arkansas, look at all the steel mills that are closed in the Pittsburgh area because the Government allowed foreign countries to sell their steel, which was cheaper then and still is today, in the US. Don't believe any of those steel mills in the Pittsburgh area that are still producing steel are working at full capacity. Do the Koch brothers expect an overwhelming demand for US produced steel sometime in the near future.
3
Charles Koch is on the tube this morning, decrying subsidies.
Yeah, right.
Yeah, right.
7
It seem like a lot of subsidies for a mere 500 jobs. 200 million in tax credits is $400,000 per job. How is this a good deal for the people of Arkansas. As already mentioned their is a glut of steel on the world market. To keep this investment afloat I expect people eventually will be screeching for steel quotas costing even more. Making this kind of investment for state of the art technology manufacturing might make some sense, but for a steel mill? I notice conservatives always outrage over any industrial policy Obama supported are obediently quite about this. I guess the Koch Boys are good at silencing their Tea Party.
7
Nocera says he is talking about "deals that make business sense" but in the same paragraph he claims that "banks wouldn’t have touched it with a 10-foot pole.” Which is it? Apparently the US and German loan-guarantee agencies are engaged in a kind of mindless export competition, supporting things that would not fly in a totally private market. Government investment can be a good thing according to Keynesians, but generally only in recessions when banks may be reluctant to lend. The question is whether these agencies are the best way to control government investment and international trade.
4
Koch Industries is also a huge proponent of various corporate welfare schemes in Puerto Rico.
3
My understanding is that Euler Hermes is a private credit insurance company, headquartered in Paris but owned by Germany's Allianz. Their U.S. Subsidiary is here in greater Baltimore. They're not a German version of the Ex-Im Bank. There seems to be a piece missing from the chain of evidence in this part of the argument.
1
Euler Hermes is private, but they manage accounts for the German government that effectively operate as a public export/import bank:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermes_cover
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermes_cover
Their principal function is the issuance of credit guarantees through a form of insurance known in the European finance community as 'Hermes Covers' which are financially backed by the German government who helps direct their issuance at the ministerial level in association with Euler and Price Waterhouse Coopers. In real world terms: The same function as that performed by Ex-Im, only the beneficiaries are the German people, not the citizens of the US. The rights' silly crusade about public/private partnerships only has validity if you can get the rest of the planet to agree to do business on those terms, functionally, an impossibility. Their real plan is to delegitimize the role of all government involvement with capital so they can be rid of the functions that government, and only government, can provide in the capital structure: environmental, banking and legal regulation and setting basic norms for pay minimums and corporate conduct.
Joe Nocera says Koch defended the role of the German government's export credit agency in the deal that got Big River Steel off the ground by saying “we will not put ourselves and our employees at a competitive disadvantage in the current marketplace.”
In other words, says Nocera, the Kochs believe there is nothing hypocritical about employing government subsidies they oppose. But Nocera says he's "not so sure."
But of course the Kochs are completely right -- and Joe has fabricated an issue that doesn't exist.
In fact the Big River Steel case illustrates just how insidious corporate welfare is. No company can say no to the "free stuff" the government hands out. To do so would place the company at a totally undeserved competitive disadvantage, and its survival would be endangered.
The Kochs are right. No individual company can unilaterally prevent this sort of corruption. By calling for a reform of our system of crony capitalism, the Kochs are doing all that can be fairly asked of them.
Hardly a day goes by without the NY Times denouncing the corrupting role of corporate money in our politics. But what the Times can't understand (or won't admit) is that this money is rarely used to bribe politicians -- rather it is extorted from corporations by politicians.
How do politicians extort money from corporations? They hint that the corporations will lose the free stuff like Ex-Im Bank guarantees and other subsidies that the corporations' rivals get if they don't pay up.
In other words, says Nocera, the Kochs believe there is nothing hypocritical about employing government subsidies they oppose. But Nocera says he's "not so sure."
But of course the Kochs are completely right -- and Joe has fabricated an issue that doesn't exist.
In fact the Big River Steel case illustrates just how insidious corporate welfare is. No company can say no to the "free stuff" the government hands out. To do so would place the company at a totally undeserved competitive disadvantage, and its survival would be endangered.
The Kochs are right. No individual company can unilaterally prevent this sort of corruption. By calling for a reform of our system of crony capitalism, the Kochs are doing all that can be fairly asked of them.
Hardly a day goes by without the NY Times denouncing the corrupting role of corporate money in our politics. But what the Times can't understand (or won't admit) is that this money is rarely used to bribe politicians -- rather it is extorted from corporations by politicians.
How do politicians extort money from corporations? They hint that the corporations will lose the free stuff like Ex-Im Bank guarantees and other subsidies that the corporations' rivals get if they don't pay up.
2
A truly bizarre fantasy.
Big River Steel has become a big river of money that the Koch brothers stole. Are any of us surprised? I think not. It's governance like this that propels the 2016 election. Trump and Sanders are symptomatic of our distaste for institutionalized theft and the kind of underhandedness it took to close the Big River deal. The unappealing stink of its corruption alone should launch a river of congressional hearings, but the Koch brother funded insurgency won't even consider it. Congress is eating it own tail thanks to the Tea Party, but that's a distraction.
The Koch brothers do not deny their role in the Tea Party's creation or its rise. Koch brothers, the CATO Institute and the Heritage Foundation have overstepped any sense of right or wrong.
A mere forty Tea Party insurgents want to hold us hostage and most media pundits claim their rise is inevitable. That's 40 out of 435 and all they've done is raise hell and distract us, while private interests steal, steal, steal. We can vote the bums out. I can only hope that we try. But it's up to the newspaper moderator to decide if and when my words will be read . . . I defer.
The Koch brothers do not deny their role in the Tea Party's creation or its rise. Koch brothers, the CATO Institute and the Heritage Foundation have overstepped any sense of right or wrong.
A mere forty Tea Party insurgents want to hold us hostage and most media pundits claim their rise is inevitable. That's 40 out of 435 and all they've done is raise hell and distract us, while private interests steal, steal, steal. We can vote the bums out. I can only hope that we try. But it's up to the newspaper moderator to decide if and when my words will be read . . . I defer.
11
The Kochs also say that they want to get big money out of politics.
8
They want to get as much big money out of politics as is possible, which is the very problem: They make WAY Too Much Money via 'Politics' (read that as pay back for past bribes)!
1
Those Tea Party idiots have no idea how business is done in the real world.”
Oh, I would take it much further than that: Those Tea Party idiots have no clue what it takes to run and maintain an advanced industrial nation.
Oh, I would take it much further than that: Those Tea Party idiots have no clue what it takes to run and maintain an advanced industrial nation.
21
What is more, unions are virtually a necessary arm of the German government.
2
'them that has, gets.' m. friedman
2
Show me a rich person who complains about government welfare for the poor and I will show you a rich person who has benefited from government welfare for the rich.
With all that we have heard out of the Rightwing of late is there any doubt that they really are the party of hate, ignorance, lies, and hypocrisy. They don't even bother to couch who they are with code words but are now proudly out of the closet of hate.
With all that we have heard out of the Rightwing of late is there any doubt that they really are the party of hate, ignorance, lies, and hypocrisy. They don't even bother to couch who they are with code words but are now proudly out of the closet of hate.
25
I detect a kind of "medieval" mentality in right-wing ideology with respect to the differentiated tolerance between big money and common citizens. The fundamental idea seems to be that all goods should be the possession of the powerful and that the lowly peasants should be grateful for the benevolent looks that the powerful bestow upon them, Let the wealthy get richer and maybe they will distribute loaves of bread on feast days. In medieval times, privileges for the powerful were legal rights, something that the modern world has removed. However the right to privileges seems to continue unabated.
12
You act like Corporate welfare for the Koch's is news or an exception. Corporate welfare is the norm and economic transfers to the rich and top rich corporations dwarfs by a guesstimated factor of 1000 economic transfers to the less well to do. That is dollar transfer from American middle class up to the rich is 1000 times dollar transfers down to the economically troubled.
6
The Koch brothers personally made 12 billion in 2014, they could have completely financed the project out of their own pocket with six weeks of personal income. But why should they when the sucker tax payer can be put on the hook.
19
Joe: By analogy, if I oppose the home mortgage interest deduction because I think it disproportionately favors the wealthy and distorts housing investments in the US, you would suggest that I shouldn't claim a mortgage interest deduction if I'm entitled to it under the current tax code? Of course not. Economics in practice can be inconsistent with economic ideology without necessarily rising to hypocrisy.
1
We’re all so familiar with this type of corporate welfare, it becomes newsworthy only when the participants are people in the news – like the Koch brothers. This is not the first time the Koch Industries has lobbied for a project, but the company typically has been only an indirect beneficiary. An example is the XL Pipeline.
To some of us, the problem is not in having state or federal money spent to encourage investment in plant and equipment. The problem comes when the expenditure of government money for these projects increases a budget deficit, which is then used to justify cutting unrelated benefits to the poor and middle class.
As we know, the conservative Republicans – who receive ample contributions from The Koch’s – consider such help to American people who really need help unacceptable.
To some of us, the problem is not in having state or federal money spent to encourage investment in plant and equipment. The problem comes when the expenditure of government money for these projects increases a budget deficit, which is then used to justify cutting unrelated benefits to the poor and middle class.
As we know, the conservative Republicans – who receive ample contributions from The Koch’s – consider such help to American people who really need help unacceptable.
6
Fantastic journalism by Joe.
Too bad Dems do not show political acumen to exploit this fully and get Exim Bank bill passed.
American Politics - wanton damage done by so called Conservatives but American voters do not hold them accountable.
Simply, our Democracy does not work....
Too bad Dems do not show political acumen to exploit this fully and get Exim Bank bill passed.
American Politics - wanton damage done by so called Conservatives but American voters do not hold them accountable.
Simply, our Democracy does not work....
5
Nocera: "In other words, the Kochs believe there is nothing hypocritical about employing government subsidies they oppose."
Hillary Clinton, on April 14th in Washington Post: "We need to fix our dysfunctional political system and get unaccountable money out of it once and for all -- even if it takes a constitutional amendment,"
Meanwhile, per Politico: "Clinton’s schedule is already straining under the gargantuan task of raising somewhere in the neighborhood of $2 billion, the estimated amount that it will take to elect her to the White House"
Nothing hypocritical there.
Sources:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/04/14/hillary-...
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/hillary-clinton-fundraising-goal-2...
Hillary Clinton, on April 14th in Washington Post: "We need to fix our dysfunctional political system and get unaccountable money out of it once and for all -- even if it takes a constitutional amendment,"
Meanwhile, per Politico: "Clinton’s schedule is already straining under the gargantuan task of raising somewhere in the neighborhood of $2 billion, the estimated amount that it will take to elect her to the White House"
Nothing hypocritical there.
Sources:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/04/14/hillary-...
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/hillary-clinton-fundraising-goal-2...
Great article ... too bad most Americans are, like the Tea Party "idiots who have no idea how business is done in the real world," too stupid to understand much beyond the first few sentences of your excellent analysis. Most Americans have no clue who the Koch brothers are, anyway ... most have no idea how politics works ... a country of imbeciles.
7
Gee, a NY Times op ed that is against Republicans? Wow!
Can anyone remember the last time the Times carried a positive op ed about anyone associated with the GOP? Is anyone 90 years old?
Can anyone remember the last time the Times carried a positive op ed about anyone associated with the GOP? Is anyone 90 years old?
Can you remember the last time a republican did something genuinely positive, and worth writing about?
Perhaps the Republicans should do something positive worth writing about...have you thought of that?
2
Have the GOP do something positive for a change and I'll guarantee you the NYT will cover it. You can't write about what doesn't exist unless you change this paper to science fiction.
1
GOP mantra: federal money is good for the rich, but bad for the poor.
9
The American public has been sold a lie about "big govt." versus small. Corporate titans love big govt. when it hires them, when it sends them barrels of money, when it opens doors to foreign markets for them, when it does research that they can exploit and when it provides tax breaks. They want big govt. when it helps, small govt. when it threatens to impinge in anyway on the turning of the wheels and the endless making of more money.
Whenever there is a big problem, corporate/right wing powers run to big govt. to get a solution (bailouts), to make it more difficult for competitors to enter their field, to clean up their toxic wastes and generally set new rules that make life easier. It is not, really, a battle between big and small, but rather over govt. they, corporations and owners, want versus that they don't want. Everything the Koch brothers do in relation to govt. is designed to help them and, potentially, harm competitors. Everything.
Why do voters buy into this false debate? In part, it is because we have all been taught that "big" is bad, a threat, while small is good. We accept the lie because it fits the mythologies we've sucked down since childhood.
How small should govt. be in a nation of more than 300 million with the greatest military commitment in the world and, at base, the richest, most successful large nation in world history? (China might one day surpass us, but, not yet.) The answer, like the debate, is buried in mythology, not fact.
Whenever there is a big problem, corporate/right wing powers run to big govt. to get a solution (bailouts), to make it more difficult for competitors to enter their field, to clean up their toxic wastes and generally set new rules that make life easier. It is not, really, a battle between big and small, but rather over govt. they, corporations and owners, want versus that they don't want. Everything the Koch brothers do in relation to govt. is designed to help them and, potentially, harm competitors. Everything.
Why do voters buy into this false debate? In part, it is because we have all been taught that "big" is bad, a threat, while small is good. We accept the lie because it fits the mythologies we've sucked down since childhood.
How small should govt. be in a nation of more than 300 million with the greatest military commitment in the world and, at base, the richest, most successful large nation in world history? (China might one day surpass us, but, not yet.) The answer, like the debate, is buried in mythology, not fact.
109
Doug,
Regarding myths, we accept the biggest myth or lie of all: we are rugged individualists.
Some of us are, but 99.999 % of us are not. Moreover, there isn't one corporation that fits the rugged individualist model. More likely they fit the hypocrisy model.
Regarding myths, we accept the biggest myth or lie of all: we are rugged individualists.
Some of us are, but 99.999 % of us are not. Moreover, there isn't one corporation that fits the rugged individualist model. More likely they fit the hypocrisy model.
2
This was a prescient commentary. The Chinese are on track to surpass us soon; in some areas, they are our equals, and remember they hold many billions in US Treasury bonds (remember all that Chinese stuff you bought? Well, it went straight in to the Chinese govt budget and came out as US Treasuries. That gives them tremendous credit, meaning we owe them a lot, a lot of intangibles like educating their kids; so.)
Thanks for pointing out that big corps go to govt to solve their big problems like needing tax exemptions to enhance their competitiveness over smaller corps. People need to see through this phony debate and see what the big corps are really up to, all the time, everywhere.
Thanks for pointing out that big corps go to govt to solve their big problems like needing tax exemptions to enhance their competitiveness over smaller corps. People need to see through this phony debate and see what the big corps are really up to, all the time, everywhere.
3
The Koch brothers are opposed to "corporate welfare" when corporations other than their own benefit from such. Did anyone expect them to embrace principles when the bottom line could be impacted?
3
Somebody ask Hensarling the same question Republican never fail to ask Democrats: what programs will be cut to replace the 700M in lost annual income generated by the EX-IM bank???
1
Those vicious billionaires are at it again. It's great the New York Times calls them out on their glaring hypocrisy and chicanery, but who's going to actually do something to curb their malign influence on our political system?
3
“We don’t have the budget to hire people to do due diligence,” says a lot about the disadvantage of small government in dealing with extremely wealthy corporations and why people like the Kochs usually get what they want.
145
I agree completely. Anti-government isn't really what it seems. The interests at stake are just an attempt to uneven the playing field between governments and corporations. There's no altruism here. Just positioning and exploitation.
Of course Big River Steel prefers to negotiate with Arkansas rather than the United States government while avoiding the Export-Import Bank all together. The smaller the government involved the greater the leverage a corporation enjoys. Take the money but get rid of the negotiations, the audit, and the oversight. "Trust us."
They'll sing a different tune when they can't find overseas financing to sustain operations. "Think about the jobs and the impact on the economy!" They'll turn around to ask the public to subsidize their continuing operations or provide a controlled exit (bankruptcy) from the market. The government takes the hit coming and going while the private investors' profit is protected by corporate law.
Who wouldn't want weak government?
Of course Big River Steel prefers to negotiate with Arkansas rather than the United States government while avoiding the Export-Import Bank all together. The smaller the government involved the greater the leverage a corporation enjoys. Take the money but get rid of the negotiations, the audit, and the oversight. "Trust us."
They'll sing a different tune when they can't find overseas financing to sustain operations. "Think about the jobs and the impact on the economy!" They'll turn around to ask the public to subsidize their continuing operations or provide a controlled exit (bankruptcy) from the market. The government takes the hit coming and going while the private investors' profit is protected by corporate law.
Who wouldn't want weak government?
1
Nucor doesn't lose business to Germany because they don't make the equipment to outfit a steel maker; they feared American Competition in the neighborhood. That new mill will employ more American workers.
Many American are opposed to the tax codes as they are but rarely will a community of person not take a tax break while others do. Some states took Affordable Care dollars because they were going to be spent somewhere. It is not irrational to do those things.
Many American are opposed to the tax codes as they are but rarely will a community of person not take a tax break while others do. Some states took Affordable Care dollars because they were going to be spent somewhere. It is not irrational to do those things.
At the end of the day, citizens evaluate whether they got their money's worth.
Nothing else matters.
If the Koch brothers ripped off the taxpayers, say so. If they cheated, indict them.
If it was a bad deal, expose it.
Nothing else matters.
If the Koch brothers ripped off the taxpayers, say so. If they cheated, indict them.
If it was a bad deal, expose it.
1
Citizens have no good way to evaluate these matters. The Koch brothers, among others, have the money to control the information that filters through to voters. A few columns in "liberal" outlets like the NY Times can't compete with the propaganda from political parties and major industrialists.
They say revenge is sweetest when it has a chance to age. The Koch takeover of the conservative movement must be particularly sweet since it occurred 60 years after William F. Buckley Jr ostracized Fred Chase Koch and his John Birch Society from the conservative movement.
3
The rich prosper, the workers suffer. What else is new in the oligarchic world?
5
The EX-IM bank is backed by us foolish taxpayers yet GE pays no US taxes. Since you have written several columns pleading their case in this matter, please Mr. Nocera, find out what else we can do for them while we're at it.
This is why, behind those grandfatherly looking pictures of the Koch brothers, smiling benignly, are a really a couple of old sharps just trying to turn the screw down on anyone who opposes them. Them's that has the gold makes the rules. It's do as I say, not as I do. I suppose they would aver that since the Germans are making the guarantees, we might as well take them to our advantage. It is, of course, the rankest hypocrisy that blows the PR campaign exposing those "kindly benefactors" for the ethical reprobates they really are. That is, of course, if anyone is paying attention.
2
Men like the Kochs know how to buy the horse for buying or selling. In other words, because they have so generously funded politicians who do their bidding, they manage to profit no matter which way a proposed law, or regulation goes. They are big enough to profit from projects like this steel plant that is benefiting a foreign national while eliminating American jobs. While they do this, they collect the government sponsored tax credits that further enrich their pockets.
I never thought it was possible to profit from the upside as well as the downside of a deal. Even Trump can't do that! But the Kochs have managed to make me think again.
And what I'm thinking is unprintable here.
I never thought it was possible to profit from the upside as well as the downside of a deal. Even Trump can't do that! But the Kochs have managed to make me think again.
And what I'm thinking is unprintable here.
7
Excellent column.
1
The only difference between the Koch Brothers and Bernie Madoff is that there is no difference between any of them.
3
The Kochs cannot simultaneously trumpet the wondrous benefits of the free market-capitalist system while at the same time energetically embracing a form of corporate socialism for themselves and their companies. If socialism is acceptable for the wealthy capitalists, we most certainly must have socialism for the rest of us, especially the poor. Let's start with Medicare for everyone, not just the elderly, eh?
7
Another proof point for the rightwing anthem: "Socialism for Me; But not for Thee."
6
The Koch brothers are part of a select group that are systematically destroying democracy in the USA. The fathers of the Union would not be happy to know that government policy is determined the few who can afford to buy votes in Congress.
9
No one should be shocked by anything the kochs do. This should be "news" not an opinion piece. Surprised the NYT let you post this Mr. Nocera. Next up for the kochs, Obama will give them the Keystone Pipeline they will benefit from.
1
It's not about money. Or jobs. Or even philosophy. As always it is only about power.
The Kochs do not want a government capable of limiting their freedom of maneuver. It is really nice being the 400 lb gorrilla in the room.
The Kochs do not want a government capable of limiting their freedom of maneuver. It is really nice being the 400 lb gorrilla in the room.
101
That's eight hundred pounds.
1
Great work, Mr Nocera. Thank you. what a pity that this vital information does not get wide notice. The Confederates (Tea Party is just cover name) are well on the way to fracturing our country yet again with active self-serving help from greedy oligarchs such as the Kochs, the uber-Orwellian wizards of oz.
2
All of a piece with Mitten$ Romney stating that he pays exactly what tax is due and not one dime more. What the plutocracy never does admit is how much the laws are slanted to give lots of "free stuff" to the rich.
2
The rich,including the Koch brothers, get unlimited welfare checks. The poor get limited welfare checks. What we need is Welfare for All, so that everybody gets welfare checks. Hey, they do it in Alaska using oil royalties.
If everyone got a check equal to the poverty level each month, there would no longer be any poverty in America. The economic slump would be over, there would be full employment, and people would have jobs they like. (People who do not want a job can be stay at home residents.)
This has been tried in Canada and it works. Look for Professor Forget on the web for details. Senator McGovern supported the idea.
To see this and other great ideas go to YouTube and watch Comedy Party Platform (2 min 9 sec). And send a buck to Bernie Sanders, and invite me to speak to your group.
If everyone got a check equal to the poverty level each month, there would no longer be any poverty in America. The economic slump would be over, there would be full employment, and people would have jobs they like. (People who do not want a job can be stay at home residents.)
This has been tried in Canada and it works. Look for Professor Forget on the web for details. Senator McGovern supported the idea.
To see this and other great ideas go to YouTube and watch Comedy Party Platform (2 min 9 sec). And send a buck to Bernie Sanders, and invite me to speak to your group.
The Koch front people in the T party need to read this article and the reader comments. They may just learn something, but somehow I doubt it. Politics is compromise, not ideology.
1
Politics is about drowning out competing voices by any possible means, with the advantage always going to money.
This article should have been titled "Free Stuff for the Kochs".
1
THE KOCH BROTHERS, sons of one of the charter founder of the John Birch Society, have their experts scanning the horizon to see where they can swoop in and push aside investors, take advantage of tax breaks and corporate welfare, not because of any interest in being a good corporate citizen. Not at all! Solely because it's good for their bottom line.
When it comes to timely investing in government funded projects, the Koch brothers are the 600 pound gorillas in the room who can defeat all competition and help their bottom line with no regard for the business, employee or environmental impact. Leave alone the impact on other local businesses. The decision to invest is based on cold, calculated profits.
They end up helping German companies and hurting US companies. How is that a good government investment? It's not! The Koch brothers are lurkers, waiting to see their opening, buy a controlling share where government welfare has already been budgeted. The bypass all the hearings and citizen comments and swoop in with their winner-take-all policy.
Free market you say? How is it that the millions and billions of dollars the Koch brothers gain in profit are free? What it is is cutthroat competition. Taking advantage of the average taxpayer so they can accumulate ill-gotten wealth. If you ask me the whole things looks and smells evil!
When it comes to timely investing in government funded projects, the Koch brothers are the 600 pound gorillas in the room who can defeat all competition and help their bottom line with no regard for the business, employee or environmental impact. Leave alone the impact on other local businesses. The decision to invest is based on cold, calculated profits.
They end up helping German companies and hurting US companies. How is that a good government investment? It's not! The Koch brothers are lurkers, waiting to see their opening, buy a controlling share where government welfare has already been budgeted. The bypass all the hearings and citizen comments and swoop in with their winner-take-all policy.
Free market you say? How is it that the millions and billions of dollars the Koch brothers gain in profit are free? What it is is cutthroat competition. Taking advantage of the average taxpayer so they can accumulate ill-gotten wealth. If you ask me the whole things looks and smells evil!
3
If it weren't so sad I'd be amused by a companion article's quote of T. Boone Pickens who said that our excellent American industrialists like the Kochs "want no help from government." Well ... maybe just a little so long as nobody else benefits.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
www.endthemadnessnow.org
3
More straw man arguments from the conservatives with the absurd notion that Democrats who take tax deductions on their 1040s somehow equates to the Kochs. That's the kind of lame mental gymnastics we've come to expect from those of your ilk.
Let me point out the obvious: The Kochs have spent hundreds of millions of dollars to warp public policy into something that resembles their distorted view of government. They buy up politicians and their think tanks write legislation that gets rammed through by their bought politicians, all to achieve their goal where corporatism rules America and the rest of us, including you, are merely serfs.
Let me point out the obvious: The Kochs have spent hundreds of millions of dollars to warp public policy into something that resembles their distorted view of government. They buy up politicians and their think tanks write legislation that gets rammed through by their bought politicians, all to achieve their goal where corporatism rules America and the rest of us, including you, are merely serfs.
2
While you cite Germany, can you explain how their big companies accept labor union reps on their boards, yet they are still profitable? How they can keep so many manufacturing jobs in their country? And how they combine high school with apprenticeships so kids have a skill when they graduate? A good motivation not to drop out.
Americans have ideological hang-ups that other countries don’t burden themselves with. We need a column listing those.
In some countries, instead of relying on govt sponsored corporate welfare, it seems corporations actually feel some sense of responsibility to the larger society. So they don’t transfer the tax burden on to average earners, and then transfer wealth up to the 1%. This may, just may be related to their elections being paid by public funds. Is there any German or any country’s parallel with the Kochs spending $900 million on Walker’s campaign alone?
In some nations the values include profits, yes, but not the only value. This is little discussed in our news media, lest it look too ‘left wing’. A perfect set up. Thus our voters have little way of demanding much from our elected office holders who depend on Kochs and their friends.
Let’s compare the meaning of private/public partnership here or abroad. Heightened private profits, with lowered financial security for many workers? And lawmakers turned into employees of business? To try to redress the disregard of public needs is called socialism, end of discussion.
Americans have ideological hang-ups that other countries don’t burden themselves with. We need a column listing those.
In some countries, instead of relying on govt sponsored corporate welfare, it seems corporations actually feel some sense of responsibility to the larger society. So they don’t transfer the tax burden on to average earners, and then transfer wealth up to the 1%. This may, just may be related to their elections being paid by public funds. Is there any German or any country’s parallel with the Kochs spending $900 million on Walker’s campaign alone?
In some nations the values include profits, yes, but not the only value. This is little discussed in our news media, lest it look too ‘left wing’. A perfect set up. Thus our voters have little way of demanding much from our elected office holders who depend on Kochs and their friends.
Let’s compare the meaning of private/public partnership here or abroad. Heightened private profits, with lowered financial security for many workers? And lawmakers turned into employees of business? To try to redress the disregard of public needs is called socialism, end of discussion.
5
I don't really understand why this issue is a big deal. Yeah, you can argue that there is hypocrisy. You can argue the Ex-Im bank is a good thing. But the bottom line is that it is a government welfare program. Nocera knows this as well as anyone being an expert on the 08' financial crisis. Its a classic case of socialized risk/private reward. The Ex-Im bank is apparently making a tiny profit now. But when the economy goes south and loans go bad, the taxpayers are left holding the bag. There is a good reason investors demand this credit insurance in order for these projects to go forward.
There are many worst government spending programs and tax loopholes that we have to pay for. So I don't care if the Ex-Im bank continues to be funded. But there is an opportunity cost to it. If you were to tell me that we could use that money to lower FICA taxes, I would support that too.
Ultimately I just don't care about this. There is about a thousand other issues more worthy of discussion. I kind of wish the NY Times and Nocera would not care about this either and focus on other stuff.
There are many worst government spending programs and tax loopholes that we have to pay for. So I don't care if the Ex-Im bank continues to be funded. But there is an opportunity cost to it. If you were to tell me that we could use that money to lower FICA taxes, I would support that too.
Ultimately I just don't care about this. There is about a thousand other issues more worthy of discussion. I kind of wish the NY Times and Nocera would not care about this either and focus on other stuff.
So the Koch boys take corporate welfare, no problem, no moral issue, work a deal that helps German workers but not American workers, so the bottom line is their business profit and that alone. Not the American worker, corporate good, the common welfare. And so with their money running elections you see how the country will go to corporate will not the people's will.
Look at all the hypocritical right wingers claiming millions on entitlement programs, but they don't look at the Koch boys and all the other rich grabbers taking what they can from the federal government that they claim to hate.
Work at a food bank. People get one bag of groceries every 2 weeks and they have to attend some class once a month. If they don't attend the class, no groceries for them. Nobody on welfare is living good. All the conservative hypocrites worry that some poor person, some down and out immigrant might get an apple they didn't earn. The biggest hypocrites are the christian right, the evangelicals, the ones who claim to know God. They know nothing, least of all how to live like Christians and love one another. But their Koch brother support makes them feel superior, and that
is all the care about.
Look at all the hypocritical right wingers claiming millions on entitlement programs, but they don't look at the Koch boys and all the other rich grabbers taking what they can from the federal government that they claim to hate.
Work at a food bank. People get one bag of groceries every 2 weeks and they have to attend some class once a month. If they don't attend the class, no groceries for them. Nobody on welfare is living good. All the conservative hypocrites worry that some poor person, some down and out immigrant might get an apple they didn't earn. The biggest hypocrites are the christian right, the evangelicals, the ones who claim to know God. They know nothing, least of all how to live like Christians and love one another. But their Koch brother support makes them feel superior, and that
is all the care about.
4
The Kochs know free markets are better than government perks from the Export-Import Bank or as part of the annual $1.3 trillion in tax expenditures. In contrast, Democrats are always trying to use public money to buy political support from one group or another. The latest is the bill by NY Sen. Kirstin Gillibrand to give tax breaks to beer companies. All businesses, regardless of type, should be taxed the same. The same holds true for states which give perks to new businesses to attract jobs. All we have is one state hurting another. The new Koch steel mill may hurt the business in the nearby mills - thanks to government distortion. You can't blame the Kochs for using the system favored by Democrats and old line Republicans. Only conservative reforms will stop the corruption.
2
Oh get real, people like the Koches pit the states against each other in a race to Hell.
Imagine for a moment you are David or Charles Koch.
You, alone, have $50 BILLION in hand.
Now try to imagine that at the end of your life, like them, you have no better plan for what's left of your life, than grubbing a few more nickels you will never live to spend and that you're willing to pollute this planet to the point of making uninhabitable for your own grandchildren.
And your other goal is to end the democratic government of the country that enabled you to become rich beyond your dreams.
You, alone, have $50 BILLION in hand.
Now try to imagine that at the end of your life, like them, you have no better plan for what's left of your life, than grubbing a few more nickels you will never live to spend and that you're willing to pollute this planet to the point of making uninhabitable for your own grandchildren.
And your other goal is to end the democratic government of the country that enabled you to become rich beyond your dreams.
7
mission accomplished.
1
Jeb! should put his (and his financiers') money where his mouth is and explain to the Koch Brothers their "right to rise" - independently of corporate welfare. While he's at it, Jeb! should also tell Walmart, America's largest employer, to reject "free stuff," like public insurance for all the employees they keep part-time and evade paying benefits and other "entitlements" for.
1
The Koch's taking advantage of a law they oppose reminds me of something else which gets little or no attention. The pseudo-liberal upper middle class who objected to the Bush tax cuts are not giving the money they get from it to charities or lower income people, but rather spending it on fancy vacations and other luxuries. This is the way of the world.
2
Whaaa?
They are spending it, aka, keep the money in circulation, doing their part to keep the 75% of the US economy that relies upon consumer spending afloat. That's far more than what the multinationals, and the 1% are doing -- they are stashing it offshores, and NOT keeping it flowing in the economy.
The 99% are the REAL job creators -- my spending is your income; the more money I have to spend, the more your business will profit, and be able to expand, and need more employees.
Stop being fooled !
They are spending it, aka, keep the money in circulation, doing their part to keep the 75% of the US economy that relies upon consumer spending afloat. That's far more than what the multinationals, and the 1% are doing -- they are stashing it offshores, and NOT keeping it flowing in the economy.
The 99% are the REAL job creators -- my spending is your income; the more money I have to spend, the more your business will profit, and be able to expand, and need more employees.
Stop being fooled !
1
Weird to call Koch industries hypocritical on this issue. How many educated people who know the mortgage tax breaks are a givaway to the upper middle class take advantage of it while believing it should be eliminated? Should they just not take the deduction on their taxes in the name of not being hypocritical? I think that's going a step too far. And indeed, in the corporate sphere, there is a strong case to be made that company managers have a duty to take advantage of all available cost savings, including available government funding, to maximize shareholder value (including minority holders), whatever the ideological slant of the majority owners may be.
4
I take the mortgage interest deduction on 100 acres of farmland, which sequesters the CO2 of 5 suburban households, produces food, sustains pollinators and absorbs rainwater, minimizing flooding. That I oppose it for suburbs which are designed for maximum consumption and minimum productivity (while inflating my land taxes and beggaring our cities) is in no way hypocritical.
if a major new plant doesn't receive some taxpayer money in one jurisdiction, it will go elsewhere. Programs like the Im-Ex bank are part of the culture that freely uses tax dollars to benefit private companies. Because of the widespread acceptance of such practices, it is virtually impossible to find major investment projects that aren't being aided with taxpayer money. The culture is the product of the ideological slant of people like you, Mr. Nocera.
The Kochs have fought the culture in many ways, while at the same time having to work within it. Your effort to paint them as hypocrites is unfair. It is another convoluted attempt by you to advance the practices of using the powers of government to take money from some people through taxes and to give it to others.
The Kochs have fought the culture in many ways, while at the same time having to work within it. Your effort to paint them as hypocrites is unfair. It is another convoluted attempt by you to advance the practices of using the powers of government to take money from some people through taxes and to give it to others.
1
In other words, it is ok for you to have socialism for the few, but not for the many.
1
In this case the Kochs are actually (for once) right: a corporation can't survive if its competitors take government subsidies and it doesn't. Its higher costs will force it to charge higher prices, driving its customers to its competitors.
The real issue is that those subsidies and tax breaks (though not necessarily the Import-Export Bank) exist in the first place. The corporations that own our politicians have used them to turn every level of government into ATMs for their own private gain. The Kochs and most of their fellow billionaires would still be rich without the direct and indirect income flows they receive from state and federal agencies, but they'd have less than they have now, and the rest of us would have more
The real issue is that those subsidies and tax breaks (though not necessarily the Import-Export Bank) exist in the first place. The corporations that own our politicians have used them to turn every level of government into ATMs for their own private gain. The Kochs and most of their fellow billionaires would still be rich without the direct and indirect income flows they receive from state and federal agencies, but they'd have less than they have now, and the rest of us would have more
9
The only reason he attacks the Koch Brothers is the fact they contribute to conservatives causes. You would not hear a pip out of him if the contributions had been made to a progressive agenda. Do you think that George Soros, Harvey Weinstein and Labor Unions do not benefits from actions by the Government? The difference between these two groups is who they contribute their monies to. Mr. Nocera is entitled to his opinion but not the facts. All large contributors to a political party receive favors. Why is that surprising? Public Labor Unions benefit tremendously when Democrats are in charge of Legislatures. Look at California as their retirement system is going bankrupt.
4
Koch Brothers should simply admit that they like welfare as long as they benefit from it and stop talking nonsense about the safety net.
You ignore the element of hypocrisy. The Kochs and the organizations they support argue against these institutions and these subsidies, the progressives and progressive organizations you named do not. The progressives support these policies because they help people who really need help. The Koch's don't need any extra help from the government to grow their bank accounts.
He attacks the Kochs because they are hypocritical and avaricious. Like the Tea party members who fight tooth and nail to keep their medicare benefits. Cutting other people's benefits is fine; just don't touch mine.
1
This is WAY too complicated to explain to voters, would require more than the 3 minutes allocated for a national news story, and cannot be incorporated into a 90-second answer in a "debate", so the status quo will continue and corporations will get rich at the expense of taxpayers. Oh… and those dollars that Arkansas is paying to attract businesses that "help German workers while hurting Americans" are hurting Arkansas school children and college students attending state schools as well. Every dollar drained from the public coffers to provide "incentives" for business is a doll that cannot be invested in public education.
36
Sure it can. The rightist says "Ex-Im, Boeing and Caterpillar", you say "Euro and Korean Ex-Ims, Airbus and Komatsu." You let the people know through your response that scores of nations have their Ex-Im Banks and that your oppoenent is tying an arm behind America's back in the name of ideological purity. All in 90 seconds.
I agree, WFGersen. It all makes sense if you think of the Republican Party as a giant machine for converting public money to private money.
1
And the GOP would say, as it should be, right?
1
The one question I have about this project is this - how can this investment be justified given the dynamics in the steel industry? And the only answer I can think of is that someone expects a disruption in the global supply chain. Otherwise, it makes zero sense. The corporate welfare lowers the hurdle rate, but it won't turn losses into profits.
2
Is China, currently the #1 steel maker world-wide, but with very questionable quality, about to have a "crisis"?
Is the cost of fuel to maintain the global supply lines, chasing the cheapest labor and lack of environmental standards about to get prohibitively expensive?
Are the shipping lanes about to get even more lawless, and filled with pirates, making those supply lines untenable?
Just some thoughts...
Is the cost of fuel to maintain the global supply lines, chasing the cheapest labor and lack of environmental standards about to get prohibitively expensive?
Are the shipping lanes about to get even more lawless, and filled with pirates, making those supply lines untenable?
Just some thoughts...
1
Let me see if I get this right. Germany is insuring the funding of a plant "off shore" that will help exports from one of its equipment making companies and therefore help German exports to the "off shore" country. Correct me if I have this wrong, but I suspect Mr. Nocera and his philosophical brethren would howl in protest if the US government insured the funding of a plant "off shore", even if it would help a US based company and US exports.
As for the Kochs, they are investing in American jobs in Arkansas. Who do you think is building the plant?
As for the Kochs, they are investing in American jobs in Arkansas. Who do you think is building the plant?
3
Well, the Koch's were late to the game, not coming in until they saw government and taxpayer money laying around all over the place, and then the decided to come in and exploit that unjustified largess to their own profit. One cannot impute any good motive to Koch, but merely greed and avarice.
Stop the flow of government money to private businesses. Today.
Stop the flow of government money to private businesses. Today.
10
Don't you understand that because they are receiving preferential treatment and insurance that they are investing with greatly reduced risk?
This is only contributing to greater wealth disparity in this country. Rich people don't need extra help to get richer.
This is only contributing to greater wealth disparity in this country. Rich people don't need extra help to get richer.
8
With 148 families now financing half of the 2016 election, is it any wonder that corporate welfare is out of control. In fact, companies like GE have a reputation for paying no corporate taxes at all while garnering public money in the building and support of new construction projects and the expansion of old ones. OH, and let's not kid ourselves that the Kochs are concerned about jobs or livable wages. They are only too happy to make use of cheap labor, immigrants or overseas, to further their bottom line and could care less that jobs stay in the US, only that their investments are returning profits and gobbling subsidies at the public troph whenever possible.
22
We can't have endless development, so welfare for big corporations is even more wasteful. Demand has slackened and will continue to. There is likely some recognition of this by perhaps the super wealthy Koch family. As the world shrinks and the demand for workers lessens, we are looking at a completely different set of economic circumstances. Some are realizing that sustainability is the only way to continue to provide economic safety. But the few extremely wealthy are simply grasping at what is left of the demand that fueled GDP for the past one hundred years as expressed in the TTP. By 2050, population growth in the world will be reversing. The trend is already underway. Global disaster threatens with warming. Energy is a key factor. It is quickly becoming renewable and sustainable, which means it is no longer fossil. With this comes more lateral and localized power and production. This means the top down systems of the past several hundred years is coming to a close, and with that, we are looking at new ways to sustain ourselves. Hopefully, it will happen in a way, that does not allow a few to abscond with the means of production and make the rest of us into even more into vassals then we were in the Middle Ages. We should decide locally for ourselves, as a democracy, what those means of production will be and who is in charge of it. Capitalism as we have always known it, is in for a bumpy ride as human rights become more center stage.
21
Thank you. The end of the economic paradigm inherited from the 20th century should be in open discourse, the new paradigm whatever its future configuration, must not designed to fit in an oligarchic mold.
1
Simply put, this is 'Capitalism'. Absolutely no surprises here. However, if there is a problem then it lies with our 'democracy' which has lost its balance.
Citizen's United continues to help tilt those scales. When and if the new day dawns it will need to be 'bottom up' and will require an sea change in voter sophistication that will make our democracy more voter-dependent and less capital dependent.
Alas, no such change is on any horizon that I can see. But Hillary would be a reasonable step in that direction.... which is why the right slams and attacks her 24/7/365. I'm confident that as Barack spoke, she will act.
Citizen's United continues to help tilt those scales. When and if the new day dawns it will need to be 'bottom up' and will require an sea change in voter sophistication that will make our democracy more voter-dependent and less capital dependent.
Alas, no such change is on any horizon that I can see. But Hillary would be a reasonable step in that direction.... which is why the right slams and attacks her 24/7/365. I'm confident that as Barack spoke, she will act.
13
"Citizens United" is a golden thumb on the butcher's scale. But the butcher isn't the only one with a knife. This has to be remedied, and it can still be remedied peacefully, but it had better happen soon. Earth may not be a viable habitat for vertebrates much longer.
Wait a minute, why the angst at the Koch brothers taking advantage of a law they oppose. That is perfectly reasonable. As my Pappy once explained me, "God never told nobody 'You gotta be stupid'"
What is unconscionable is their ability to garner the usufructs of this arrangement and pay a lower tax rate than I am paying.
And equally abominable is the fact that this arrangement funds their ability to buy themselves a significant proportion of the United States Government to maintain that tax rate.
What is unconscionable is their ability to garner the usufructs of this arrangement and pay a lower tax rate than I am paying.
And equally abominable is the fact that this arrangement funds their ability to buy themselves a significant proportion of the United States Government to maintain that tax rate.
18
Re: "But with the steel industry in a terrible slump, it will surely result in layoffs for other American steelworkers. Those nearby Nucor plants are operating at less than 75 percent capacity; other American steel mills are faring no better."
This illustrates that the problem with the US economy is a lack of Demand - not supply.
Mr. Nocera is correct to want to increase US domestic demand by supporting the EX-IM bank (thus reducing the trade deficit).
But he misses the broader economic implications of the fact that lack of demand is presently the constraint on growth and employment in the US.
Yes, by all means fund the EX-IM bank to help reduce the trade deficit, and thus boost the US economy and jobs.
But there are other ways to also boost US demand, such as infrastructure spending, reducing inequality (the poor have a larger propensity to consume), and by using other means of reducing trade deficits, such as currency values, or other schemes.
This is a "teachable moment". The current constraint on the economy is on the demand side, not the supply or investment side, as illustrated by the fact that building another steel mill will not result in a net increase in jobs or output. Without additional customers or orders (demand), some other steel mill will just close down, with no net jobs created.
This illustrates that the problem with the US economy is a lack of Demand - not supply.
Mr. Nocera is correct to want to increase US domestic demand by supporting the EX-IM bank (thus reducing the trade deficit).
But he misses the broader economic implications of the fact that lack of demand is presently the constraint on growth and employment in the US.
Yes, by all means fund the EX-IM bank to help reduce the trade deficit, and thus boost the US economy and jobs.
But there are other ways to also boost US demand, such as infrastructure spending, reducing inequality (the poor have a larger propensity to consume), and by using other means of reducing trade deficits, such as currency values, or other schemes.
This is a "teachable moment". The current constraint on the economy is on the demand side, not the supply or investment side, as illustrated by the fact that building another steel mill will not result in a net increase in jobs or output. Without additional customers or orders (demand), some other steel mill will just close down, with no net jobs created.
20
Great point. Demand in the US economy is simply kept low by stagnating wages and other pressures like the high cost of college education and other items that keep going up but somehow don't get reflected in COLAs. American corporations have simply abandoned the idea that rising wages stimulate the economy. For if that were true, the stimulus would need to be injected at the bottom, not the top and turns their "job creator" faux ideology on its head.
7
Rep. Paul Ryan, Chairman of the United States House Committee on Ways and Means -- the one that writes the tax code -- might admit, if asked directly, that the richest four hundred American political donor families manipulate Congress to write tax laws favoring their interests. Laws that force every poorer American to pay their taxes. The richest donor families earn far more in government subsidies, indirect and direct, than they pay in tax -- to the extent they pay any tax at all; what motivates their generosity.
Chairman Ryan might admit it, but won't because he wants to run for President in 2020 or 2024. He dare not bite the hand that feeds him.
Chairman Ryan might admit it, but won't because he wants to run for President in 2020 or 2024. He dare not bite the hand that feeds him.
42
There is nothing hypocritical about seeking subsidies or using tax breaks that one does not believe in. If you want rules or laws changed, you are bound by them until they are changed. And if they offer opportunities, these opportunities exist for you to take advantage of, until changes make them unavailable to all.
The Kochs are just being good businessmen, and reminding us that good businessmen are essentially amoral. If they decide to look moral, or even to be moral, this is a business tactic. Laws and public opinion make this tactic more likely to be adopted, but it remains a tactic and is liable to be (secretly) abandoned when circumstances warrant.
The Kochs are just being good businessmen, and reminding us that good businessmen are essentially amoral. If they decide to look moral, or even to be moral, this is a business tactic. Laws and public opinion make this tactic more likely to be adopted, but it remains a tactic and is liable to be (secretly) abandoned when circumstances warrant.
8
No one is amoral. Those in business make a choice, thus their moral beliefs are involved.
The Koch's are hypocritical so far as they 1) work within a legal structure advantageous to themselves (and, admittedly, others), 2) denounce that very structure publicly, yet 3) actively support its continuation privately.
Consistency may be the hobgoblin of little minds (Emerson). Would that little minds little the Koch's, manically seeking one goal - power, were consistent. But they are not even that.
The Koch's are hypocritical so far as they 1) work within a legal structure advantageous to themselves (and, admittedly, others), 2) denounce that very structure publicly, yet 3) actively support its continuation privately.
Consistency may be the hobgoblin of little minds (Emerson). Would that little minds little the Koch's, manically seeking one goal - power, were consistent. But they are not even that.
3
It's not so much the taking advantage of tax breaks they don't agree with. It's the continuing to rail against government in order to manipulate voter distrust, while doing so.
The average wage-earner is persuaded to blame all his own ills on Washington, while taking up for those most responsible for the degradation of his wages, his health and the environment he and his family have to live in.
The average wage-earner is persuaded to blame all his own ills on Washington, while taking up for those most responsible for the degradation of his wages, his health and the environment he and his family have to live in.
8
The Kochs don't have to take advantage of the tax credit laws, they could not include that in their filing.
They are hypocrites.
They are hypocrites.
1
What dismays me is how sanguin the S Carolina folks who interviewed were about the likes of Carly Fiorina, Ben Carson,et al, and the Tea Party candidate sympathizers who are funded by the billionaires who are getting corporate welfare. Do they trust these interests to radically reform Washington? These billionairea are the ones who want low slave level wages, reduced Social Security benefits, Medicare cuts, thrash the EPA so they can continue to pollute our air and water without being responsible for paying the costs of their production. It's scary how duped so many people are into thinking their best interests lie so much with the interests of these corporate captains. Balanced budgets are no the problem. The US founding was based on debt from the French and we've been running deficits ever since. People are convinced by corporate propaganda that the trickle is not a benign share-the-wealth scheme. Hardly! This country relied on slave labor from the very beginning. It's in our DNA and we better be aware of its varying manifestations today as wages cannot keep up with the cost of living. We are fooled that big corporations have our best interests in mind. Bernie Sanders may not be electable when the word 'socialist' is menyioned but he's financing his own campaign with small donors and he's telling a truth that very few politicians dare utter. He's not taking Koch money or lying about how successful he was as HP's CEO.
53
Speaking of South Carolina, I was recently struck by Senator Lindsay Graham, a supposedly "reasonable" Republican, who was asked about Federal FEMA aid for South Carolina's massive flooding.
Without hesitation, be blithely assured the interviewer that the Federal government would spend whatever needed to be spent to make South Carolina whole again, without a second's hesitation about how much that might be!
But he, like many other GOP Senators, voted against Federal aid programs to the Northeast United States following Super-Hurricane Sandy's damage! He wanted limits, restrictions, budget limitations, etc.
The same can be noted by the two Senators from Oklahoma. Both emphatically opposed assistance to millions of their fellow citizens, who resided in Blue States.
Yet both were screaming for Federal assistance following tornadoes in Oklahoma!
Republicans ALWAYS view the Federal taxpayer as THEIR piggybank, and definitely take advantage of the generosity of their more liberal citizens (the right-of-center Tax Foundation has documented how Red states are nine of the ten biggest "taker" states, while Blue states are nine of the ten biggest "contributor" states). But they scream and whine any time it comes to helping the poor (in any state), or anything that might help a Blue state.
Without hesitation, be blithely assured the interviewer that the Federal government would spend whatever needed to be spent to make South Carolina whole again, without a second's hesitation about how much that might be!
But he, like many other GOP Senators, voted against Federal aid programs to the Northeast United States following Super-Hurricane Sandy's damage! He wanted limits, restrictions, budget limitations, etc.
The same can be noted by the two Senators from Oklahoma. Both emphatically opposed assistance to millions of their fellow citizens, who resided in Blue States.
Yet both were screaming for Federal assistance following tornadoes in Oklahoma!
Republicans ALWAYS view the Federal taxpayer as THEIR piggybank, and definitely take advantage of the generosity of their more liberal citizens (the right-of-center Tax Foundation has documented how Red states are nine of the ten biggest "taker" states, while Blue states are nine of the ten biggest "contributor" states). But they scream and whine any time it comes to helping the poor (in any state), or anything that might help a Blue state.
3
As much as I despise the Koch brothers and the damage they're doing to American democracy, this is not hypocrisy.
It's also not hypocrisy when politicians advocating for massive reform to campaign finance employ the same structures and tools they hope to abolish (though conservatives have long made that self-serving claim). No one reasonably expects such a political candidate to provide her opponent with a massive competitive advantage by unilaterally disarming. Nor can we reasonably expect corporate actors to weaken their competitive standing by ceding their place at the government trough to competitors, even when figures as repellent as the Koch brothers are involved. (I think I should pay higher taxes on income and capital gains. Am I acting hypocritically for not simply paying the IRS more than I owe until such time as the tax laws I favor are enacted? To think this is hypocrisy is to misapprehend the term.)
There is nothing hypocritical about operating according to the current rules of a system that you are advocating to reform, especially when playing by what you wish were the rules would put you at a relative disadvantage. Hypocrisy in this case would be attempting to shame one's competitors into foregoing the benefits of the system while continuing to take advantage of those same benefits.
It's also not hypocrisy when politicians advocating for massive reform to campaign finance employ the same structures and tools they hope to abolish (though conservatives have long made that self-serving claim). No one reasonably expects such a political candidate to provide her opponent with a massive competitive advantage by unilaterally disarming. Nor can we reasonably expect corporate actors to weaken their competitive standing by ceding their place at the government trough to competitors, even when figures as repellent as the Koch brothers are involved. (I think I should pay higher taxes on income and capital gains. Am I acting hypocritically for not simply paying the IRS more than I owe until such time as the tax laws I favor are enacted? To think this is hypocrisy is to misapprehend the term.)
There is nothing hypocritical about operating according to the current rules of a system that you are advocating to reform, especially when playing by what you wish were the rules would put you at a relative disadvantage. Hypocrisy in this case would be attempting to shame one's competitors into foregoing the benefits of the system while continuing to take advantage of those same benefits.
9
Actually, the Koch position is the textbook example of hypocrisy. While shouting at the top of their lungs that such incentives are against their principles and the principles they believe the country should adhere to, they scheme to become investors so they can take advantage of the very benefits they believe should be abolished. Koch industries could have declined the investment opportunity based on their principles, but the don't have any, which is a textbook example of hypocrisy.
77
The difference is that you are legally required to pay taxes. You will pay only the taxes owed until tax rates increase. But the Kochs were under no obligation to get involved in this project, and as the column points out, their getting involved is what got the state subsidies approved.
30
Why would Buffett pay more taxes than he needs to when that money would end up in the Kochs' pocket?
1
Well, one thing about billionaires is that they get that way and accumulate their immense wealth often by spending other peoples money, usually the taxpayers. Add to that, they have this inane ability of, after taking the money, making the taxpayer feel that they should be thankful in giving it to them, especially the billionaires that own sports franchises and want new stadiums.
73
The Golden Rule. Millionaires never put up their own cash. Always borrowed and from the public as much as possible.
1
Mr. Nocera:
A very coherant synopsis of how corporate welfare works. I find it difficult to accept that the Koch's are not in jail. Maybe that's why we never vote on resolutions to go to war anymore. If we were legally at war their actions would
be treasonous. I wouldn't exactly call what they do a promotion of the general
welfare. Thank you for this service.
A very coherant synopsis of how corporate welfare works. I find it difficult to accept that the Koch's are not in jail. Maybe that's why we never vote on resolutions to go to war anymore. If we were legally at war their actions would
be treasonous. I wouldn't exactly call what they do a promotion of the general
welfare. Thank you for this service.
50
You believe that opposing the position of Obama is treason? That urging people to vote against Democrats is grounds for going to jail? Wow -- you must have loved the USSR.
So the government should get involved and expend resources when it benefits the wealthy, but it fosters government dependency when helping the needy. And this is the party that the so called Christian Right supports? The corrupting influence of money in American politics has become the biggest threat to America's democratic principles since slavery. It's time to demand change.
114
A different Supreme Court, under a Democratic President's appointments, should do the trick.
You do realize that is a left-wing columnist, the Democrats and moderate Republicans who are all for this corporate welfare, right? And that it is conservative Republicans who are opposing it?
It's too late!
There US never was a real democracy. It has always been a Republic and that's why it was so easily corrupted by the likes of the Koch brothers and the rest go the oligarchs!
Now we have 158 families calling the shots and most likely electing the next president!
The US has become Bolivia and if you are really quiet, you can hear Mussolini laughing from his grave!
There US never was a real democracy. It has always been a Republic and that's why it was so easily corrupted by the likes of the Koch brothers and the rest go the oligarchs!
Now we have 158 families calling the shots and most likely electing the next president!
The US has become Bolivia and if you are really quiet, you can hear Mussolini laughing from his grave!
1
The Kochs are past masters at privatizing profit and socializing loss. Meanwhile, their defenders--who turn out en masse at the faintest whiff of criticism--are past masters at sophistry, particularly when they try to suggest there's something clever and even honorable about the Kochs' hunger to manipulate and profit from a political system in whose ruin they've invested a fortune or two.
In fact throughout their 40-year-plus campaign of reactionary political action masquerading as libertarianism, the Kochs--raised and nurtured in the bosom of the John Birch Society--have done incalculable damage to the nation. The huge sums they've pumped into propaganda of both word and deed, including but not limited to the establishment of a vast propaganda network and the shameless purchase of public officials and journalists, have eroded our fragile democracy to the breaking point.
They inherited access as well as billions, allowing them to play a larger-than-life role in crippling our legislatures (this goes well beyond Arkansas or Kansas or Wisconsin or Ohio--we have a vivid example of the result currently on display in the US Congress) and profoundly corrupting our federal justice system, including the Supreme Court.
For reasons of obvious self-interest, they have led the decades-long attack on sane environmental and energy policies: now, old men nearing the end of long and privileged and opulent lives, they leave the rest of us to mop up the wreckage.
Revolting.
In fact throughout their 40-year-plus campaign of reactionary political action masquerading as libertarianism, the Kochs--raised and nurtured in the bosom of the John Birch Society--have done incalculable damage to the nation. The huge sums they've pumped into propaganda of both word and deed, including but not limited to the establishment of a vast propaganda network and the shameless purchase of public officials and journalists, have eroded our fragile democracy to the breaking point.
They inherited access as well as billions, allowing them to play a larger-than-life role in crippling our legislatures (this goes well beyond Arkansas or Kansas or Wisconsin or Ohio--we have a vivid example of the result currently on display in the US Congress) and profoundly corrupting our federal justice system, including the Supreme Court.
For reasons of obvious self-interest, they have led the decades-long attack on sane environmental and energy policies: now, old men nearing the end of long and privileged and opulent lives, they leave the rest of us to mop up the wreckage.
Revolting.
280
Koch=Treason
1
I knew this was out there. But, it's just one example of Koch hypocrisy.
It's too bad there is not investigative press in every state with Koch Industries in it to dig into what 'incentives' they get from local and state governments.
I live near a Georgia-Pacific operation. They were owned by someone else initially and received state dept of transportation infrastructure work at the plant entrance; instead of property taxes to support schools, law enforcement, highway maintenance and fire fighting, they pay a 'fee in lieu' of taxes.
We have a Libertarian blog in my state. It appears to get funding from Koch/Cato buddies to promote school tax credit/voucher laws among other Libertarian issues. But, you read a Libertarian blog long enough and you come to realize that when Libertarians like the Kochs talk 'freedom' and 'liberty', they mean the 'freedom' and 'liberty' of business to mess over the environment, its workers and its customers and the governments as hard as they can.
It's too bad there is not investigative press in every state with Koch Industries in it to dig into what 'incentives' they get from local and state governments.
I live near a Georgia-Pacific operation. They were owned by someone else initially and received state dept of transportation infrastructure work at the plant entrance; instead of property taxes to support schools, law enforcement, highway maintenance and fire fighting, they pay a 'fee in lieu' of taxes.
We have a Libertarian blog in my state. It appears to get funding from Koch/Cato buddies to promote school tax credit/voucher laws among other Libertarian issues. But, you read a Libertarian blog long enough and you come to realize that when Libertarians like the Kochs talk 'freedom' and 'liberty', they mean the 'freedom' and 'liberty' of business to mess over the environment, its workers and its customers and the governments as hard as they can.
117
Joe,
It seems to me that this is a bad deal for the Arkansas tax payers, and for the workers and investors in Nucor. It would probably be a decent project if US steel production were needed but it seems from your column that US steel production is already over capacity. We need the Export-Import bank to assist US industries compete in a pretty tough market. Other advanced countries have similar loan guarantee facilities so it makes sense for the US to have the same, even though, it would be better if governments could stay out of the loan business to gain access to the markets. Germany and Japan have been very aggressive in the technology that I know something about, Maglev technology. There is demand for very high-speed transportation and the inventors of superconducting Maglev transport for carrying highway big rigs and passengers are having a rough time competing for the high speed guided surface transport market in our own market because of the aggressive competition of Germany and Japan. The only fair solution that I have recommended is on big national systems like high-speed surface transport that the US Government should finance a test program to compete the technologies rather than allow this national market to be penetrated by foreign government financing. In the end, public funds should be invested in creating a level playing field and facilities like the Ex-IM should be used only to fairly compete.
It seems to me that this is a bad deal for the Arkansas tax payers, and for the workers and investors in Nucor. It would probably be a decent project if US steel production were needed but it seems from your column that US steel production is already over capacity. We need the Export-Import bank to assist US industries compete in a pretty tough market. Other advanced countries have similar loan guarantee facilities so it makes sense for the US to have the same, even though, it would be better if governments could stay out of the loan business to gain access to the markets. Germany and Japan have been very aggressive in the technology that I know something about, Maglev technology. There is demand for very high-speed transportation and the inventors of superconducting Maglev transport for carrying highway big rigs and passengers are having a rough time competing for the high speed guided surface transport market in our own market because of the aggressive competition of Germany and Japan. The only fair solution that I have recommended is on big national systems like high-speed surface transport that the US Government should finance a test program to compete the technologies rather than allow this national market to be penetrated by foreign government financing. In the end, public funds should be invested in creating a level playing field and facilities like the Ex-IM should be used only to fairly compete.
8
When the GOP tries to shut down the government again, when funding for education and basic research on viral epidemics dries up, when the federal debt ultimately makes the US economy implode, will there be anyone with a ledger to show how much of our nation's wealth was siphoned off by privately-held "corporations" like the Koch's? What planet will the Koch heirs be living on generations from now? Where shall our grandchildren go to storm the gates of that future Bastille, and give this illegitimate monarchy the guillotine it deserves?
http://www.liveink.com/Walker/Koch_Corporate_Welfare.htm
http://www.liveink.com/Walker/Koch_Corporate_Welfare.htm
63
The low information American voters are paying for their ignorance and their self-imposed ideological blinders.
149
No. Everyone pays when ignorance rises to the top: The entire nation is suffering because 40 newly elected men, secure in their positions, presume to tell everyone else what laws to make and how everyone ought to live and get fleeced by big business.
3
The Kochs are a generous pair
Most so about their own welfare,
When profit's in sight
Ideals are a blight,
There's real need for big Gov Welfare!
Most so about their own welfare,
When profit's in sight
Ideals are a blight,
There's real need for big Gov Welfare!
50
Like father, like sons. Fred Koch despised communism, but not enough to stop him laying the foundations of the fortune he passed on to his sons by building oil refineries for Stalin.
209
This is the perfect example. Never let principles get in the way of profits. Inside every conservative is a liberal when it comes to his or her needs.
1
Like father, like sons, Fred Koch despised communism but not enough to stop him laying the foundations of the fortune he passed to his sons by building oil refineries for Stalin.
33
Aha, now that is an interesting and very telling piece of historical information!
There is no hypocrisy in playing by the rules while advocating that the rules be changed. There is in fact an admirable integrity in advocating for changes in the rule that benefit you. We have developed a corporatist economic system in which so many players are subsidized, it is impossible to participate without taking part in those systems.
Hypocrisy would be advocacy that ones peers voluntarily forego subsidies that are made available while taking advantage of those same subsidies. To fail to understand that is to fail to understand the term.
Hypocrisy would be advocacy that ones peers voluntarily forego subsidies that are made available while taking advantage of those same subsidies. To fail to understand that is to fail to understand the term.
12
If the best that one can say is that they are not hypocrites, that sounds like damning with faint praise.
If they find the idea of accepting government help in any form so abhorrent, then maybe they should take themselves out of the game.
If they find the idea of accepting government help in any form so abhorrent, then maybe they should take themselves out of the game.
23
Well, KBronson, I disagree. Hypocrisy is being worth billions of dollars, accepting zillions in corporate welfare, and criticizing millions of low-income Americans for accepting money from social programs.
192
So stealing from the American people is playing by the rules.
8
Don't bad mouth this project without understanding the basics of the steel industry. The USA needs modern hight quality steel plants -- the type that SMS Semag can build. Who supplied the Nucor plants -- why SMS of course. (The US steel supply industry, mill builders, died in the 1980's and 1990's.) Nucor will do just fine, new capacity always come on line at the wrong time -- but it all works out with time. The key is that new capacity is state of the art and can beat steel production from China and India.
deblacksmith
deblacksmith
5
In 2013, E-I helped 77 small businesses in Pennsylvania, adding one billion dollars to the state's economy.
Bassetts Ice Cream is one of those businesses:
“As a small U.S. business, we do need it,” said Michael Strange, president of Bassetts Ice Cream, “and I would not be exporting the quantity of product I am in China if I wasn’t able to purchase export credit insurance [from the bank].”
"If I didn't have Export-Import Bank, I couldn't put the company at risk shipping the quantity overseas and extending credit to foreign customers," Strange said.
http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/news/2014/07/14/local-small-busi...
Major corporations benefit from the E-I bank but so do smaller businesses that large corporations sub-contract some of the work to. And there are many more businesses like Bassetts Ice Cream across the country that depend on the bank. Why should US exporters have to compete in the global economy with both hands tied behind their backs?
It doesn't cost taxpayers a dime. In fact, it almost always makes money off its investments, money which is returned to Treasury.
“Those Tea Party idiots have no idea how business is done in the real world.” Of course they don't. That's why the Kochs love them and spend billions of dollars making sure they're elected to Congress. They're so easy to fool.
Bassetts Ice Cream is one of those businesses:
“As a small U.S. business, we do need it,” said Michael Strange, president of Bassetts Ice Cream, “and I would not be exporting the quantity of product I am in China if I wasn’t able to purchase export credit insurance [from the bank].”
"If I didn't have Export-Import Bank, I couldn't put the company at risk shipping the quantity overseas and extending credit to foreign customers," Strange said.
http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/news/2014/07/14/local-small-busi...
Major corporations benefit from the E-I bank but so do smaller businesses that large corporations sub-contract some of the work to. And there are many more businesses like Bassetts Ice Cream across the country that depend on the bank. Why should US exporters have to compete in the global economy with both hands tied behind their backs?
It doesn't cost taxpayers a dime. In fact, it almost always makes money off its investments, money which is returned to Treasury.
“Those Tea Party idiots have no idea how business is done in the real world.” Of course they don't. That's why the Kochs love them and spend billions of dollars making sure they're elected to Congress. They're so easy to fool.
301
Mary Scott:
You write: "It doesn't cost taxpayers a dime. In fact, it almost always makes money off its investments, money which is returned to Treasury."
Haven't I heard that one before? Oh, yes. It was Fannie Mae.
Fannie Mae never cost the taxpayers a single dime -- until it cost them them $224–360 billion.
You write: "It doesn't cost taxpayers a dime. In fact, it almost always makes money off its investments, money which is returned to Treasury."
Haven't I heard that one before? Oh, yes. It was Fannie Mae.
Fannie Mae never cost the taxpayers a single dime -- until it cost them them $224–360 billion.
1
The Koch Brothers don't have a problem taking advantage of the system that they decry. One gets the feeling that they will be happy to see corporate welfare end but only at a time most convenient to them and most inconvenient to their competitors.
It would be interesting to total up all the benefits of corporate welfare they have enjoyed over the years. I guess they have enough and don't want others to enjoy the same privileges.
It would be interesting to total up all the benefits of corporate welfare they have enjoyed over the years. I guess they have enough and don't want others to enjoy the same privileges.
102
Rita .... as you say....The Koch Brothers don't have a problem taking advantage of the system that they decry. Because they think they deserve it.
This hypocrisy underlies our political system and 2016 campaign funding. Get returns by investing in politicians and candidates, not products and services.
They think they deserve their welfare, while the rest of us don’t even deserve basic representation by lawmakers that the citizens of more advanced democracies enjoy.
It’s a simple hierarchy thing in the minds of the elites now—more typical of old world hereditary privilege. While our S. Court pretends money in elections is free speech.
This hypocrisy underlies our political system and 2016 campaign funding. Get returns by investing in politicians and candidates, not products and services.
They think they deserve their welfare, while the rest of us don’t even deserve basic representation by lawmakers that the citizens of more advanced democracies enjoy.
It’s a simple hierarchy thing in the minds of the elites now—more typical of old world hereditary privilege. While our S. Court pretends money in elections is free speech.
3
There is no journalistic interest in totaling for us, the media is bought and paid for by the likes of the kochheads.
Liberals argue that the Kochs, like GE (wind turbines) and Solyndra (solar power) lobby for government favors that would benefit them and their businesses. But that's clearly wrong as Mr. Nocera points out. The Kochs lobby for government as they think it should be (generally libertarian, both in economic and social policy) while on a daily basis dealing with government as it exists and operates today.
I see a highly principled organization, and certainly no hypocrisy.
I see a highly principled organization, and certainly no hypocrisy.
26
A highly principled organization against corporate welfare wouldn't accept corporate welfare. Period.
443
Highly principled individuals take tax deductions they think are wrong every April yet do not see themselves as hypocrites. It's only other people/organizations that are hypocrites as they look for ways to justify their actions.
7
When the principle is acquisition of wealth and power, which is what most organizations are about, they will do whatever works for them. Can you name one highly successful organization that is different?
Well, Rita, that may pretty much depend on the "principles." I am at a loss to come up with the name of any large, successful organization where acquisition of wealth and power (particularly for the higher ups) was not the real guiding principle. That is who manage to claw their way to the top -- and probably why they do it. Beware of wolves in sheep's clothing.
Well, Rita, that may pretty much depend on the "principles." I am at a loss to come up with the name of any large, successful organization where acquisition of wealth and power (particularly for the higher ups) was not the real guiding principle. That is who manage to claw their way to the top -- and probably why they do it. Beware of wolves in sheep's clothing.
5
Those who want to create jobs in the United States, whether Republicans or Democrats, should realize that investors are risk averse and that most projects not backed by a highly rated corporate or government guarantee will be difficult and certainly more expensive to finance.
A market economy entirely without government involvement is a pipe dream and the failure to reauthorize the Export-Import Bank is shooting the U.S. and its workers in the foot. As for the Kochs: they should be ashamed of their role in the dumbing down of American political decision making. We need more government guarantees for economic investment, as our EU and Asian competitors provide, not fewer.
A market economy entirely without government involvement is a pipe dream and the failure to reauthorize the Export-Import Bank is shooting the U.S. and its workers in the foot. As for the Kochs: they should be ashamed of their role in the dumbing down of American political decision making. We need more government guarantees for economic investment, as our EU and Asian competitors provide, not fewer.
128
the kochs should be jailed, they are traitors.
I think this editorial is mostly an argument why government subsidies like this (aka crony capitalism) are stupid and counterproductive. It's just like cites and states providing all sorts of tax credits and subsidies to rich team owners for sports stadiums. The benefits rarely exceed the costs.
Maybe Congress could step in here and make such subsidies illegal. Since in most cases it's states competing against each other for business, Congress might be able to do this since it could fit the definition of "interstate commerce."
And Mr. Nocera inadvertently points out why the Ex-Im bank is a bad idea. If banks think financing a stand alone steel mill is a high risk venture, why would we want our government to do so? But no, Ex-Im will survive, and the taxpayers of the US and Europe will continue to subsidize corporations selling to each other.
Maybe Congress could step in here and make such subsidies illegal. Since in most cases it's states competing against each other for business, Congress might be able to do this since it could fit the definition of "interstate commerce."
And Mr. Nocera inadvertently points out why the Ex-Im bank is a bad idea. If banks think financing a stand alone steel mill is a high risk venture, why would we want our government to do so? But no, Ex-Im will survive, and the taxpayers of the US and Europe will continue to subsidize corporations selling to each other.
8
This is all very well within a country, but we have to compete with Europe and Asia. If their governments are subsidizing their industries, then their companies will get all the contracts, and their workers will get all the jobs. The US will not be competitive.
24
Congress has the power to eliminate subsidies and reform the Tax Code.
But those who we elected to do the people's work would rather play what amounts to office politics.
But those who we elected to do the people's work would rather play what amounts to office politics.
20
Jonathan:
Your point is well taken. I'd be willing to accept Ex-Im Bank simply as a means to level the playing field, i.e., to match subsidies by foreign governments.
But that's not what the Bank's supporters want. They want it to go on subsidizing the sales of US firms even when their foreign rivals get no government subsidy.
Your point is well taken. I'd be willing to accept Ex-Im Bank simply as a means to level the playing field, i.e., to match subsidies by foreign governments.
But that's not what the Bank's supporters want. They want it to go on subsidizing the sales of US firms even when their foreign rivals get no government subsidy.
2
I would be curious to hear Trump's perspective.
I would imagine he would be quite willing to use the US government's money and clout to insure jobs for US workers, regardless of ideological consistency. That's why he's picking up the most votes, and not necessarily on the 'right'.
I would imagine he would be quite willing to use the US government's money and clout to insure jobs for US workers, regardless of ideological consistency. That's why he's picking up the most votes, and not necessarily on the 'right'.
3
You forget that government money has largely kept Mr. Trump in business.
82
Funny how government spending destroys jobs if a Democrat is President, yet government spending creates jobs if a Republican is President (or it's in a Republican's district, or it's for the military).
It's almost as though Republicans only worried about government spending if it isn't being routed to their campaign contributors.
It's almost as though Republicans only worried about government spending if it isn't being routed to their campaign contributors.
103
So do you agree with Stephanie Kelton, Bernie's economic advisor, that the federal government should guarantee a decent federal job to all those who need one or paid training for such a job? They could fix roads and bridges, help teach small classes, etc.. This would allow the government to eliminate most present forms of welfare.
5
These government handouts are destructive. There is over capacity in the steel industry now, and for the long term foreseeable future. The new plant should be more competitive with all the free stuff they are getting. Who is going to pay for it, the people of Arkansas! There should be a Federal Law abolishing state and local government handouts. No more stadium bonds, enterprises zones, and other goodies.
26
I agree that retrofit of the existing plants-- if economically feasible-- would be a good way to go. But government support is necessary to compete globally. The major EU and Asian economies do not hesitate to award loan guarantees and subsidies to finance exports and economic activity.
14
looks like the kochs have found a way to invest and collect while destroying their competition.
1
In a world of global competition your tbought is small minded suicide.
1
I'm against corporate welfare, as well as farm subsidies and many legal tax deductions and try to support politicians with similar points of view. But when I file my taxes I take the deductions that I'm legally entitled to even if I think that some of them should be eliminated. Warren Buffett thinks that his tax rate should be higher but his still only pays what he is legally required to. I see no hypocrisy in his action or my own. I also see none in the Koch brothers taking advantage of the current system despite the fact they want to change it.
23
I'm guessing most liberals also take advantage of every deduction and tax credit they can, whether or not they agree with it. And how many rich liberals simultaneously argue for higher tax rates on themselves, but don't pay any more than they have to.
1
They don't want to change it. They only say that they do to drum up opposition to any kind of "welfare," so that people will demonize the poor. They are more than happy to take whatever benefits the government will give them, while using their immense wealth to buy the politicians who are most beneficial to them, while at the same time spreading propaganda that demonizes anyone who isn't a right wing ideologue.
3
Clearly you are more driven by the well being of individual corporations over the well being of the people.
3
This sort of scenario points up why we need government and not privatization -- private companies are not looking at the bigger picture and the longer-term picture. Being assured of recouping their investment without needing to turn a profit and while possibly having a negative impact on the industry as a whole may make this venture make sense to the Koch Brothers, but it doesn't seem to serve regional workers. Relying on Germany's government's help while not supporting the availability of such help through our own government may count as a successful business practice to some, but it is no substitute for government and for government's oversight from a much broader perspective and mandate to serve many more interests and the common good.
243
Corporate welfare and the Koch Brother's power to be huge recipients of it, is extremely dangerous. Glad this article was written, but sadly a majority of Americans remain clueless as to the absolute harm this abusive paradigm delivers to the country.
1
Such behavior from Kochs et al demonstrates the primary characteristic of 1.0%-ers and 0.1%-ers, an all-surpassing sense of entitlement, where Masters of the Universe and governments alike never ever say ' no '.
241