Should American government hire a private guard company to do the job like this one? They aren't soldiers who are officially trained and supervised. They real cause of such tragedy is mismanagement of military actions by related government sectors. It shows that American government doesn't take their allies serious and no mercy to their citizens.
5
Bush, Cheney, Rove and Rumsfeld and Rice should all go to prison with them along with the CEO of Blackwater.
9
They'll "go in" until this is forgotten by the population here and they'll be out the back door,you watch!
6
Wait,wait, wait, they were only doing what Halliburton, GWB and dick were paying them top dollar to do..
7
Having spent a lot of time in Afg and Iraq I have to say sadly that this is just the tip of the iceberg. I find it unfair that these admittedly arrogant stupid and panicky boys are being singled out. What about their leadership including the State Department and neocons. Who created this monster? My guess is they will get out on appeal and it will be done out of the news cycle.....but this happens in all wars......the average American thinks all Moslems are terrorists just as the Charleston police see all people running away from them as criminals. At home we have the war on drugs and crime, and in Iraq the war on the terrorists. Sadly, Woodrow Wilson's arrogance regarding the US vs. the rest of the world is still haunting us. When will we learn?
6
NO, NO, NO!!! We are NOT all to blame in the blackness of the collective consciousness. there were some very craven and unethical top people involved in this travesty, most have been named in most of the comments. The unfortunate result is that the people at the top never pay for spending billions of dollars (never their own) to make more billions of dollars, caring nothing about the end result - the abomination of the USA around the world.
I and millions like me will not forget and not forgive the ease with which the war doctrine was accepted, the inability of the media to get to the underlying deception and the shrug with which most of it has disappeared from any true justice.
that the NY Times can carry a photograph of the supporters of these monsters is in itself monstrous.
I and millions like me will not forget and not forgive the ease with which the war doctrine was accepted, the inability of the media to get to the underlying deception and the shrug with which most of it has disappeared from any true justice.
that the NY Times can carry a photograph of the supporters of these monsters is in itself monstrous.
4
A lot of comments on here suggesting this atrocity was the result of command an control from Blackwater. Please see, e.g., the My Lai Massacre, No Gun Ri Massacre, the Battle of the Bismark Sea... Innocents are killed during the fog of war, and it is brutal and disgusting. These guys did what happens all the time, and it is a condition of the darkness within each of us, not Blackwater. YOU are the evil that you despise -- go 10 days without sleep, watch your friend get blown up by a roadside bomb a couple hours before, you're jacked up on drugs to not fall asleep... history shows time and time again, it is the common, everyday man put in unspeakable conditions, and they do atrocious things to their fellow man. That common man is all of us.
4
Mercenaries thinking they can act with impunity will all too often brutalise the innocent. This is not the dark heart of man but the bloody hands of a Corporation, too close to the US Government for comfort, using its power to abuse. And all for profit.
10
"go 10 days without sleep, watch your friend get blown up by a roadside bomb a couple hours before, you're jacked up on drugs to not fall asleep"
That IS a failure of command and control, on the part of both Blackwater and their government oversight, and they SHOULD be held accountable.
That IS a failure of command and control, on the part of both Blackwater and their government oversight, and they SHOULD be held accountable.
3
Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice walk free and these guys get prosecuted?
What the Blackwater contractors did was wrong.
What Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice did was a crime for the ages. They are responsible for the deaths of untold thousands upon thousands of civilians and military. All for lies that they knowingly perpetrated.
Shame on them.
And shame on us for not bringing them to account.
What the Blackwater contractors did was wrong.
What Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice did was a crime for the ages. They are responsible for the deaths of untold thousands upon thousands of civilians and military. All for lies that they knowingly perpetrated.
Shame on them.
And shame on us for not bringing them to account.
21
Waging aggressive war was the charge against the Nazi leadership, sustained at the Nuremburg trials. I'm waiting for the indictments but Bush, Cheney et al. don't seem too concerned.
One of the major cultural failings of our era, from the Kardashians to the neocons, is the lack of shame.
One of the major cultural failings of our era, from the Kardashians to the neocons, is the lack of shame.
7
"Justice " does not occur in all situations. The new York Times recently did an article on three prison guards at Attica prison in New York state who savagely beat an inmate without provocation and they lost their jobs and will not serve jail time. All those involved in the decision making process are not infallible.
1
This is yet another tragic stain on the conscience of America. What is most unfortunate is that Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld will never join these men in prison. None of this would have ever happened if we'd never started that blasted war to start with.
11
Blackwater represents the worst of America.They are beneath contempt and so is the Erik Prince, the man who owns the company (which is now called Academi and still gets government contracts.) How about a ban on those, permanently? Why is this company still getting any government money? Why is Erik Prince allowed to get money to fund secret covert operations in Africa these days? That needs to be the next investigation by the Times. The places that we still allow Prince to dig his blood-stained hands in are shocking.
8
It is tiring to read some of the responses here that make these four murderers as mere victims who were played as pawns for their bosses at Blackwater and the U.S. government.
This view is not only hogwash, but moral reprehensible.
Because, throughout history in every atrocity the over-riding theme is that "I followed orders."
Just imagine how different the world would be if those with the weapons in hand acted as rational human beings and said "NO."
So, no matter how the delusional apologists, liberal finger-pointers and morally deficient relatives may spin it, these four men had a choice and chose to spit in in all good's people faces by choosing to be killing machines, instead rational human beings.
This view is not only hogwash, but moral reprehensible.
Because, throughout history in every atrocity the over-riding theme is that "I followed orders."
Just imagine how different the world would be if those with the weapons in hand acted as rational human beings and said "NO."
So, no matter how the delusional apologists, liberal finger-pointers and morally deficient relatives may spin it, these four men had a choice and chose to spit in in all good's people faces by choosing to be killing machines, instead rational human beings.
2
It is tiring to read some of the responses here that make these four murderers as mere victims who were played as pawns for their bosses at Blackwater and the U.S. government.
This view is not only hogwash, but moral reprehensible.
Because, throughout history in every atrocity the over-riding theme is that "I followed orders."
Just imagine how different the world would be if those with the weapons in hand acted as rational human beings and said "NO."
So, no matter how the delusional apologists, liberal finger-pointers and morally deficient relatives may spin it, these four men had a choice and chose to spit in the face of all good people everywhere by choosing to be killing machines, instead rational human beings.
This view is not only hogwash, but moral reprehensible.
Because, throughout history in every atrocity the over-riding theme is that "I followed orders."
Just imagine how different the world would be if those with the weapons in hand acted as rational human beings and said "NO."
So, no matter how the delusional apologists, liberal finger-pointers and morally deficient relatives may spin it, these four men had a choice and chose to spit in the face of all good people everywhere by choosing to be killing machines, instead rational human beings.
9
Another example of how war degrades (and kills!) people. Too many Americans have fallen for Bush's. "They hate us for our freedoms.": I guess it has nothing to do with our invading their country and killing tens of thousands of men, women and children? We have lost our moral compass: Nations, like children see what you do, not what you say...Imagine if we had spent the billions of dollars for war on aiding people (not corrupt governments, please)! And, as my mother used to say, "Charity begins at home." When increasing numbers of Americans are falling into poverty, when 1 in 30 children are homeless, the American Dream is becoming the American Nightmare! Shame, shame, shame...
12
They should have been tried for war crimes. Imagine a foreign nation doing this in the US.
11
The court found that the actions of these men were an atrocity...and based on the evidence that appears to be true and the sentences appropriate. But it also highlights the hypocrisy of the US government, where the powerless are punished and the commanders, who are responsible for far greater atrocities, are permitted to dismiss the results of their orders as "collateral damage" or the "fog of war"... or the even more ridiculous "nobody knew".
19
they deserve the sentences.
and they should be happy that their trial was NOT in an Iraqi court, it would have been quick & swift, and none of them would be alive today !
now let us fix the U.S. "cop" problem and their killing of us (the people), along with the 1000s upon 1000s of terrible abuses and false police reports filing, this is happening all over our country !! a minuscule part of the tip of this iceberg is only nowadays showing, hopefully with the growing number of camera technology, along with all media covering this shameful phenomena, we can solve this shameful behavior by our American "storm troopers", if not, we have the 2nd amendment !
and they should be happy that their trial was NOT in an Iraqi court, it would have been quick & swift, and none of them would be alive today !
now let us fix the U.S. "cop" problem and their killing of us (the people), along with the 1000s upon 1000s of terrible abuses and false police reports filing, this is happening all over our country !! a minuscule part of the tip of this iceberg is only nowadays showing, hopefully with the growing number of camera technology, along with all media covering this shameful phenomena, we can solve this shameful behavior by our American "storm troopers", if not, we have the 2nd amendment !
14
It's no small wonder to me how the history of Western influence in the middle east (and most other geopolitical regions) serves as an effective lighting rod for creating, gathering and inciting radical Islamists. Bizzare violent fundamentalist religion aside (and I'm talking about Muslim, Christian, and Jewish versions of basically the same beast here), the American political system is horrifically and obviously compromised by corporate money--mostly from the military industrial complex and financial and petrochemical industries. It's no secret that the overarching corporate agenda is, by-design, welded to quarterly profits and maintaining a death-grip on the socio-political power structure. The minimal facade of political theater and representation we as a country presents would be laughable were it not atrocious and make US citizens culpable targets by our implied consent.
The average American citizen is far too inebriated by the engines of manufactured consent (nationalism, sports, religion, misleading media, manufactured materialism, processed food, work, cable TV, alcohol, prescription and recreational drugs, etc.) to care about identifying and fixing the core problem: corporate money infesting and ruling our politics.
Thank goodness for the internet. We can begin to educate ourselves to what's happening and thereby begin to peel back the fingers of the death-grip and begin the work of generating a truer democracy and then attend to the real priorities of the world.
The average American citizen is far too inebriated by the engines of manufactured consent (nationalism, sports, religion, misleading media, manufactured materialism, processed food, work, cable TV, alcohol, prescription and recreational drugs, etc.) to care about identifying and fixing the core problem: corporate money infesting and ruling our politics.
Thank goodness for the internet. We can begin to educate ourselves to what's happening and thereby begin to peel back the fingers of the death-grip and begin the work of generating a truer democracy and then attend to the real priorities of the world.
16
T.R., the "core problem" has been identified for quite some time. Don't underestimate the collective consciousness of the citizens of this country. They know what's going on.
1
I would not "praise" the Internet as a "reliable" source of information as there is FAR too much fiction disguising itself as fact. Even the supposed "guardians of fact" on the Internet are not all that reliable because of their political affiliations. Frankly speaking, in today's USA there are no truly reliable sources for the citizens to rely on for factual news. Gone are the unbiased days of impartial reporting. It is so sad that we have allowed this to be.
2
re: Becca
What "collective consciousness" are you talking about?
Because, the only thing "collective" I see is an apathetic and ignorant electorate who couldn't find the nation of Iraq on a map.
What "collective consciousness" are you talking about?
Because, the only thing "collective" I see is an apathetic and ignorant electorate who couldn't find the nation of Iraq on a map.
1
Nothing excuses the political pandering and $1 billion in private security contracts that Blackwater secured by buying out the Republicans. Misbehaving corporations like Blackwater should be nationalized, dismantled, and absorbed. Prince and the rest of the Blackwater leadership should be stripped of wealth and punished. Moreover, the system that continues to streamline the open sale of US political parties and elected representatives (along the lines of "Citizens United" and other abominable doublespeak) should be abolished. We need to create a system that identifies and levies the harshest penalties for breaching what should be an unbreakable contract between elected representatives and the people whose rights and interests are supposedly represented.
14
The next time the GOP talks about entitlements, I am going to think of Blackwater, Haliburton and who knows how many firms and individuals who vacuumed up funds going to Iraq; for a war we did not win and don't know why we fought. Estimates vary between 5 billion dollars and 15 billion dollars unaccounted for or spent without proper documentation. These nice white hometown American boys got paid a lot of money to provide a dubious service.
18
Let's recall the media details of that tragedy in Baghdad’s crowded Nisour Square, a war zone, which we have conveniently forgotten:
A car entered the square on a side street. Instructed to halt by Blackwater, it did not. Only after several hand gestures to stop failed, did the guard shoot into the engine block to disable the car. The sound of those shots, heard by the other guards, who, because they were in a war zone, assumed the State Dept. vehicle transiting the Square, and they, were under attack from insurgents, returned fire.
An instructive corollary is the hunt for the Boston Marathon bombers that ended with 200 bullet holes in the sides of residences in the first encounter, and at a covered, stored boat in a residential backyard. Having surrounded the boat, with guns drawn, someone fired a shot. Instantly all State, local, and transit police returned fire into that boat. The sound of that unknown first shot, caused a cascade of fear and adrenalin in every other officer. The shooting stopped only after someone shouted a cease fire. A media image of the bullet-riddled Swiss cheese boat tells the tale. Had they killed the unknown hiding in that boat, it would have been an unarmed man.
The Blackwater guards assigned by the State Dept. to ensure the safety of their staff in a war zone, were doing their duty and not on some Bonnie and Clyde crime spree. This trial, to placate the indignation of another country's government, just created scapegoats. It is a travesty.
A car entered the square on a side street. Instructed to halt by Blackwater, it did not. Only after several hand gestures to stop failed, did the guard shoot into the engine block to disable the car. The sound of those shots, heard by the other guards, who, because they were in a war zone, assumed the State Dept. vehicle transiting the Square, and they, were under attack from insurgents, returned fire.
An instructive corollary is the hunt for the Boston Marathon bombers that ended with 200 bullet holes in the sides of residences in the first encounter, and at a covered, stored boat in a residential backyard. Having surrounded the boat, with guns drawn, someone fired a shot. Instantly all State, local, and transit police returned fire into that boat. The sound of that unknown first shot, caused a cascade of fear and adrenalin in every other officer. The shooting stopped only after someone shouted a cease fire. A media image of the bullet-riddled Swiss cheese boat tells the tale. Had they killed the unknown hiding in that boat, it would have been an unarmed man.
The Blackwater guards assigned by the State Dept. to ensure the safety of their staff in a war zone, were doing their duty and not on some Bonnie and Clyde crime spree. This trial, to placate the indignation of another country's government, just created scapegoats. It is a travesty.
4
US should not be using private contractors in the military or intelligence services. They are accountable only to their corporations not to the administration they are supposedly serving, a government elected by us.
15
Why do we need mercenaries who have no code of conduct,without any supervision, no rules, indiscriminate, wanton, with a false sense of superiority over the people they are contracted to kill? When they are cornered or killed they invoke their citizenship but when they kill randomly they are immune to our army's code. If we do not have enough # of soldiers then bring in the draft ( rich and politicians' kids included ). No exceptions. Or get into wars which we can chew. Or don't get into a war - Period. Let's just concentrate on our shores, spend time and money and soldiers to protect ourselves. If we fight on moral grounds why are we bringing in the immoral mercenaries who commit crimes against humanity. Why does a firm like Blackwater even exist?
13
This has been the way of the land since I have been on this planet: We pick out the lackeys and idiots who are easily convinced by their superiors that there will be no accountability for acts of atrocity, put high powered weapons in their hands, and turn them loose in the streets of a foreign country in chaos. What did anyone expect?
Just as in My Lai, Abu Ghraib, Haditha and countless other examples of lethal authority gone awry, the tragedy at Nisour Square was set in motion long before the first innocent civilian died. However, those who orchestrated the events leading up to each of these tragedies will never be made to pay - only the idiots and lackeys who did their bidding.
I have no sympathy for Heard, Slatten, Liberty and Slough. They made choices at critical junctures in their lives that put themselves in harm's way. No one forced them to be there. No one forced them to pull their triggers. They represent the Cowboy Culture that Dubya fostered upon the nation, especially among those in small towns, who were never going to become famous.
Now they've gotten their wish. All of them are murderers. Their statements of innocence and self defense are nothing more than lies and denial. Not one of them has expressed culpability or remorse at what they did, including shooting women and children. Like "The American Sniper", they would do it all over again if given the chance.
Just as in My Lai, Abu Ghraib, Haditha and countless other examples of lethal authority gone awry, the tragedy at Nisour Square was set in motion long before the first innocent civilian died. However, those who orchestrated the events leading up to each of these tragedies will never be made to pay - only the idiots and lackeys who did their bidding.
I have no sympathy for Heard, Slatten, Liberty and Slough. They made choices at critical junctures in their lives that put themselves in harm's way. No one forced them to be there. No one forced them to pull their triggers. They represent the Cowboy Culture that Dubya fostered upon the nation, especially among those in small towns, who were never going to become famous.
Now they've gotten their wish. All of them are murderers. Their statements of innocence and self defense are nothing more than lies and denial. Not one of them has expressed culpability or remorse at what they did, including shooting women and children. Like "The American Sniper", they would do it all over again if given the chance.
48
Well said Sir!
5
"Its founder, Erik Prince, was a major donor to the Republican Party."
Prince buys the Republican government, then the Republican government pays Prince back many, many, many times over. The corruption of money in a broken system, mercenaries fighting a wrong war for the profit of America's tiny minority of already vastly wealthy.
This is exactly what is not supposed to happen in the United States.
Prince buys the Republican government, then the Republican government pays Prince back many, many, many times over. The corruption of money in a broken system, mercenaries fighting a wrong war for the profit of America's tiny minority of already vastly wealthy.
This is exactly what is not supposed to happen in the United States.
35
"This is exactly what is not supposed to happen in the United States." ---- but it did and it will again if republicans take the white house in '16 to add to their control of the house and senate. there may soon be, once again, ugly times ahead for us, my fellow americans.
2
Thank those who voted for W, and the entire Republican party and their corporate minion$. Biggest welfare moochers on the planet.
8
But the electorate keeps voting GOP against their own benefit. Alas, this is how democracy works in america where the people presumably know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. Afterall the electorate put the GOP back into power in 2012, even though it meant continuing political scorched-earth shenanigans and reckless brinkmanship. And incredibly they did it again in the 2014 mid-terms. Clearly it´ll take a full return to debilitating GOP ideology to educate voters to the absurdity of what they are doing.
8
These men were protecting State Department employees, none of whom were harmed in this supposed indescriminate mêlée. Blackwater never lost one official they protected,. The State Department report stated the convoy came under fire by people in civilian attire and police uniforms and apparently were joined by Iraqi soldiers who thought they were backing up real police. What the hell were these guys supposed to do? If you go politically correct you get Benghazi and allow your number one diplomat to be murdered.
1
So, Echo, the 9 year old boy was a threat to the US State Department?
6
Where can we find the State department report and the FBI report? I am wondering if echo is accurate in the above and, moreso, if the FBI report agreed or controverted the State Department account. I'm guessing the FBI report did not agree, because if it did then these mercenaries would not be getting the sentences they are. What did Ridgeway say happened?
2
Why did the Times decide that the self-serving and cowardly protestations of innocence of four murderers was entitled to five of the first six paragraphs of this story? The reason the convicted killers "spoke publicly for the first time" is simply that they chose not to speak at trial, where their assertions would have been subject to cross-examination. They were entirely within their rights in declining to testify--but their choice not to testify doesn't make their current denials important news. These four men sprayed an intersection with bullets, killing 14 people without justification, the jury found. Their well-deserved, and long-delayed, punishment is news. Not what they have to say now.
19
Why the euphemism 'contractors? Why no use the classical and well known word mercenaries?
Whitewashing them does not fool anyone.
Whitewashing them does not fool anyone.
25
" “I know for a fact that I will be exonerated, in this life and the next,” said Paul A. Slough. "
You're in for a big surprise in the 'next', if there is any justice in this world.
You're in for a big surprise in the 'next', if there is any justice in this world.
13
Now is the time for the NYT to also come clean: stop calling it "Iraq War". For America it was a CLAY PIGEON SHOOT. America invaded Iraq to destroy a country. America employed American (and foreign) mercenaries (labelling them as Contactors does not hide the fact that they were mercenaries), in the EMPLOYMENT OF AMERICA. America should remember: what goes around comes around. Some day some third country MIGHT HIRE KILLERS to carry out attacks against American civilians.
8
In this article reporter Matt Apuzzo uses the following words to describe the defendants from this case: (1) Security Contractors, (2) Private American Security Guards, (3) Blackwater Employees, (4) Contractors, (5) Blackwater Contractors and (6) Blackwater Guards. Each word or group of words is a euphemism employed to hide the truth, which is that these men were mercenaries.
It is instructive that in a 3/12/15 article on Nigeria's campaign against Boko Haram reporter (Adam Nossiter) had no problem using the word "mercenary" to describe South African soldiers fighting in Nigeria. Neither did his editor, who entitled the piece "Mercenaries Join Nigeria's Military Campaign Against Boko Haram." What is the difference and why does the latter article not use the word "mercenary?" The reason is simple. When private American citizens travel to foreign soil to act as paid soldiers they are "security guards" or "contractors" or "good young men who've never been in trouble, who served their country." When private citizens of other countries travel to foreign soil to act as paid soldiers they are "mercenaries" at best and "paid killers" at worst. And so, with your help, we continue to deceive ourselves.
So my question is to the New York Times. Why do you continue participate in this deception? These men were mercenaries who proved themselves to be the murderers of innocent men, women and children. Why do you so fear to speak the truth?
It is instructive that in a 3/12/15 article on Nigeria's campaign against Boko Haram reporter (Adam Nossiter) had no problem using the word "mercenary" to describe South African soldiers fighting in Nigeria. Neither did his editor, who entitled the piece "Mercenaries Join Nigeria's Military Campaign Against Boko Haram." What is the difference and why does the latter article not use the word "mercenary?" The reason is simple. When private American citizens travel to foreign soil to act as paid soldiers they are "security guards" or "contractors" or "good young men who've never been in trouble, who served their country." When private citizens of other countries travel to foreign soil to act as paid soldiers they are "mercenaries" at best and "paid killers" at worst. And so, with your help, we continue to deceive ourselves.
So my question is to the New York Times. Why do you continue participate in this deception? These men were mercenaries who proved themselves to be the murderers of innocent men, women and children. Why do you so fear to speak the truth?
18
Hear hear!! Thank you John A. Hays and others for pointing out this discrepancy in reporting.
4
Why are these people holding up photos of their murderous kin as if the perpetrators of this awful crime are somehow the victims? It shows a complete disregard for the lives of those who are not exactly like themselves. They should instead hold up photos of the true victims and quit their disgusting display of self pity.
19
Name a famous--not infamous--mercenary. Hiring them is as despicable as being one.
4
Usually the law punishes the killer and who is behind the atrocious act.
Unless that “Who" is a powerful politician.
Unless that “Who" is a powerful politician.
3
I'm quite happy that these men whose corrupt sense of right and wrong will have plenty of time to think about the path they took their lives onto that also ended the lives of others. It's too bad George Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Condoleeza Rice weren't sentenced along with them. It's also rather interesting to know what states these men hail from. I have no faith in Iraqis, their country, their corrupt government, their fanatical religions and the mess their country is because of it. I don't even blame The United States for this mess. Each country in the Middle East is unstable, oppressive and fanatical due to their own choosing. It's been this way long before The British Empire carved the region up. Warring is a big part of their history and religion only deepens that culture. But as an American, a human being, a civilian, is still sacred and I believe that justice has been served in this case.
7
When, if ever, will the war criminals Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield, Powell, Rice, Tenet, Ashcroft, Franks and Mueller face justice for their crimes against Iraqi humanity?
20
Perhaps, when they actually become war criminals, they will be.
These guys were simply acting according to the culture and training, such that it was, at Blackwater. The person who should be strapped to the mast is Eric Prince, the founder and unrepentant provocateur in this sad episode.
Oh, also strapped the the mast, upside down, in front of Prince, should be -his- boss, one Donald Rumsfeld.
Oh, also strapped the the mast, upside down, in front of Prince, should be -his- boss, one Donald Rumsfeld.
15
Nobody bothers to remember My Lai. You start these wars and something like this is inevitable. I am a liberal progressive, who still feels the pain of people who got up in the morning, went to work and jumped out of a 90 story building so as not to get burned to death. Look inward America.
3
You make the false equivalency of 9/11 and Iraq. The two had nothing to do with each other. You should look inward.
2
Please don’t forget the following small incidence: The My Lai Massacre was the Vietnam War mass murder of between 347 and 504 unarmed civilians in South Vietnam on March 16, 1968, by United States Army soldiers of "Charlie" Company of 1st Battalion, 20th Infantry Regiment, 11th Brigade of the American Division. Victims included women, men, children, and infants. Some of the women were gang-raped and their bodies were later found to be mutilated and many women were allegedly raped prior to the killings. While 26 U.S. soldiers were initially charged with criminal offenses for their actions at Mỹ Lai, only Second Lieutenant William Calley, a platoon leader in Charlie Company, was convicted. Found guilty of killing 22 villagers, he was originally given a life sentence, but only served three and a half years under house arrest. Man is pompous, self-serving, territorial, aggressive, with an innate ability to destroy and kill. Why did the Egyptians made slaves of the Hebrews for more than 400 years? Why did the all wise white U.S. Constitutional framers made slaves of Black African people? Why did white Nazi Germans exterminate 6 million Jewish people? A soldier will either fall in love with war or with peace, but can not simultaneously love both. Man should stop making war in the name of liberty, justice, peace and in the name of God (all religions in the world). The true God is good and would not be blessing soldiers nor war itself.
8
There were no insurgents. There were only some mercenaries who felt they could shoot with impunity with no fear of consequences. Thankfully they have been held to account for their crimes.
7
Their defense is not unexpected. The problem is that they were NOT acting for the United States. They were acting for a private company, Blackwater. There really is a difference. People are dead. Someone needs to be held accountable. That includes the company which sent them there and basically turned them loose.
I'm sure the Hessians would have mounted the same defense in the 1700s!
I'm sure the Hessians would have mounted the same defense in the 1700s!
8
I do not know if these contractors were guilty or not. The whole thing is a tragic outcome of the a war started for political reasons.
The American people should lay the blame for the whole thing at the feet of Dick Chaney and his minion George W Bush. They are the ones who should serve the prision terms. Not, the pawns of this currupted system of government.
The American people should lay the blame for the whole thing at the feet of Dick Chaney and his minion George W Bush. They are the ones who should serve the prision terms. Not, the pawns of this currupted system of government.
11
Cheney´s easily the most despicable public figure since Nixon. Truly and transparently an evil human being.
9
"a war started for political reasons"
What political reasons?
What political reasons?
Convictions are bread crumbs in a trail back to 1948 of US methods to maintain "plausible deniability". The trail provides an opportunity to learn and perhaps change national business goals and practices.
3
Good riddance. I hope none of them ever see the light of freedom again. Now how about going after Eric Prince? Cheney, Rummie, W will never be held accountable.
26
Question - just who do you think protects our "dignitaries" while they visit overseas locations??? Brave men and women who stand ready to take a bullet (or deliver) a bullet to protect our VIP's. Maybe we should just let all of them head over their unaccompanied. If they get killed...so be it. Wake Up!
In the rush to bomb Iraq into shock and awe, we dehumanized the Iraq people and put the power of life and death into the hands of careless mercenaries. There is much to be accountable for here as individuals and as a nation.
43
Yes on each count.
The American voters' taxes went to this.
What terrible bill we have run up and it is still ticking.
The American voters' taxes went to this.
What terrible bill we have run up and it is still ticking.
1
When you live by the sword , you die by the sword . This is not a Bush/Clinton issue , but a matter of criminal law . Do not try to justify by saying it's collateral damage. However , this will likely be overturned , and at worst they will be pardones once Ted Cruz , or one of his Republican cronies gets to the White House.
8
Another tragic example of how war degrades people. Bush's words, "They hate us because of our freedoms" still ringing obscenely in my ears. They hate us because we invaded their country and killed tens of thousands of innocent people. Violence begets violence. Think of how different we would be viewed if we had spent the billions of dollars we spent on war on giving aid (not to the government!) to Iraquis. We claim to be morally superior, but so many of our own people are living in poverty; one in 30 children are homeless in the U.S.A. More and more people everyday sleeping on the streets. Charity begins at home! Like our children, nations see what we do, not what we say. How much more influence we could have by being good role models. Propaganda and bombs instead - tragic! Does any rational person think that we are safer because of our interventions in other countries, Some claim we are "a Christian nation," Jesus must be turning over in his grave......
16
In Iraqi war US Government acted as a contractor for Israel.
11
Macho ex-military types. During war against the enemy, they've learned to shoot first, ask questions later - it's a matter of life and death. But when these warlike men leave the military, they retain this macho self-image, they feel like gods among men, invincible, subject to no ordinary constraint. And this is what happens. IMHO, no ex-military or para-military men should be hired to face the enemy. They lack the self-control and the balance to represent our country to the world.
12
Interesting POV. How many contractors do you know personally and are you familiar with the resource profile that Blackwater used to recruit?
What you are painfully unaware of is that most contractors come out of elite or special operations groups which are staffed by highly motivated and intelligent individuals. You should try and meet some of those men and understand their points of view versus having a perspective shaped by the action movies you've watched.
What you are painfully unaware of is that most contractors come out of elite or special operations groups which are staffed by highly motivated and intelligent individuals. You should try and meet some of those men and understand their points of view versus having a perspective shaped by the action movies you've watched.
I am ex-Navy, and have known a few from those days. I'll stand by my assessment.
I've said nothing about action movies - that's your construct, not mine.
I've said nothing about action movies - that's your construct, not mine.
1
I've been waiting for a verdict like this for eight years.
Nobody is above the law---nobody.
I don't care if you're "protecting freedom" or
"fighting terrorism". No excuse even in war for breaking the rules.
I think justice has been served. The real "perps"
are higher up and too influential to be indicted.
But this at least shows that somebody gets held responsible.
And at the time of the incident for which these individuals
were tried and convicted it was not clear what law if any
they were accountable to---military or civilian or any at all.
I believe these verdicts show that "contract security" (mercenaries)
can be held accountable for improper and unprofessional actions
that lead to the death of civilians. Yes, there is justice in the world.
Not perfect and never will be but it is still justice.
Nobody is above the law---nobody.
I don't care if you're "protecting freedom" or
"fighting terrorism". No excuse even in war for breaking the rules.
I think justice has been served. The real "perps"
are higher up and too influential to be indicted.
But this at least shows that somebody gets held responsible.
And at the time of the incident for which these individuals
were tried and convicted it was not clear what law if any
they were accountable to---military or civilian or any at all.
I believe these verdicts show that "contract security" (mercenaries)
can be held accountable for improper and unprofessional actions
that lead to the death of civilians. Yes, there is justice in the world.
Not perfect and never will be but it is still justice.
13
Anyone working for the US government or any State government is to obey and be subject to US law, full stop. There is no caveat for location this has always been the case.
The dubya admin brought in lawyers whom with dubious logic invented ways to word things so that torture was not torture and introduced location as a factor of whether or not US law applied to people acting on orders from the US. They also came up with ways to make it seem orders were not orders. There seems to be no end to the duplicity they created and encouraged right down to the denial these for war criminals are so desperately grasping hold of.
The dubya admin brought in lawyers whom with dubious logic invented ways to word things so that torture was not torture and introduced location as a factor of whether or not US law applied to people acting on orders from the US. They also came up with ways to make it seem orders were not orders. There seems to be no end to the duplicity they created and encouraged right down to the denial these for war criminals are so desperately grasping hold of.
9
Justice or politics ?
3
Justice.
1
Better late than never. Too bad taxpayers paid them.
11
It is interesting to me that the Times chose to lead this story with a picture of the families/supporters of the Blackwater defendants instead of the Iraqis that lost their family members. That choice seems to have set the tone for the article. I can only imagine what this whole process has been like for those families as they continue to wait for justice for their loved ones.
14
Because I will believe our men and women anyday over the Iraqi's.
These mercenaries went to Iraq with the desire to kill anyone who was in their path. I am glad they got what they deserve.
12
Late coming but good . Very good . I suggest that these "contractors" be put to good use, such at the coroner's work-place ,cleaning bodies , weighing organs, sawing off crania, mopping up blood .
6
Those Iraqi civilians were in their own home when these Blackwater Guards entered and blasted away. How is that a "hatchet job?" Only a bunch of right wing maniacs would now try to link Iran to this massacre. What next? Blame Obama for the Mi Lai massacre too?
How about that it took 7+ years to bring justice to the 11 dead Iraqi civilians? How is it Eric Prince, CEO of Blackwater, now called "XE" is not even remotely mentioned? Or does he like using that old coward's way out, "I didn't know."
Men in this country are blatantly armchair militants with their mouths. Get them off the computer chair and they melt like butter.
How about that it took 7+ years to bring justice to the 11 dead Iraqi civilians? How is it Eric Prince, CEO of Blackwater, now called "XE" is not even remotely mentioned? Or does he like using that old coward's way out, "I didn't know."
Men in this country are blatantly armchair militants with their mouths. Get them off the computer chair and they melt like butter.
10
It is deeply troubling that the country which claims to be the "most powerful country" in the world with an armed force that is beyond parallel should have the necessity to hire contractors from the private sector to provide security.
While this judgement may demonstrate that America values justice regardless of nationality of the victims, the system has not investigated the factors that led to the hiring of private sector security contractors by its Government. Without this investigation, such hirings will likely continue in future, and, potentially create even more dangerous situations for an unwary and unprotected citizenry in countries that the US intervenes militarily, with or without cause.
In the final analysis putting deadly weaponry in the hands of the private sector, whose only master is greed, can only lead to murder and mayhem.
While this judgement may demonstrate that America values justice regardless of nationality of the victims, the system has not investigated the factors that led to the hiring of private sector security contractors by its Government. Without this investigation, such hirings will likely continue in future, and, potentially create even more dangerous situations for an unwary and unprotected citizenry in countries that the US intervenes militarily, with or without cause.
In the final analysis putting deadly weaponry in the hands of the private sector, whose only master is greed, can only lead to murder and mayhem.
36
The people who employed them, Bush and Cheney, masters of and servants to greed recognized some fellow travellers. Bush and Cheney should have been on trial as well.
1
I am not able to judge the culpability of these individuals for the alleged actions. The judgment has been decided.
It bothers me that those crimes became possible after our foolish adventure in that country and the fact that those who led us and them there still go to radio and TV shows to justify themselves without paying for what they did while these low level soldiers and their families take the brunt of justice.
It bothers me that those crimes became possible after our foolish adventure in that country and the fact that those who led us and them there still go to radio and TV shows to justify themselves without paying for what they did while these low level soldiers and their families take the brunt of justice.
8
Hired, trained assassins, they need to be held accountable along with Cheney, Rumsfeld and Eric Prince.
20
You forgot Bush! How can you shotgun blame around without Bush?
2
Bush should also be held accountable.
3
The US government should be in prison for destroying Iraq.
8
In 1946, the United States tried and hanged General Yamashita, who was held responsible for the Bataan death march and other atrocities he was unaware of. The legal principle applied by the military court was that the head of the Japanese armed forces was responsible for the actions of the soldiers under his command. It is therefore unjust to hold these four contractors guilty of war crimes, when their masters remain unpunished.
17
If the Bush administration didn't lie to the American people this would have never happened in the first place. The real villains are Bush and Chaney when will their warrants be signed?
17
Definitely. When the American people were able to see the documents that are still classified at the highest level, we got to see the lie......Obvious sarcasm
Those against action in the middle east have constantly attempted to turn their beliefs into facts. None of us know the truth. I'm not saying Bush didn't lie, but we also cannot say that he did.
Those against action in the middle east have constantly attempted to turn their beliefs into facts. None of us know the truth. I'm not saying Bush didn't lie, but we also cannot say that he did.
Why were they tried in the US and not the country where the crime was committed? i am sure they would not have gotten off so lightly for their heinous and cowardly acts
12
Lightly? You must be joking! Those are life sentences handed down as there is no real parole in the Federal system.
Tbis did not happen in a vacuum. I believe the command and contol structure encouraged this type of behavior. They are never punished, only the grunts.
11
if you think command and control encouraged this, you have never put on a uniform or known anyone who has. But great job in accusing all military officers of promoting murder.
Another case of "out sourcing" jobs gone bad. One has to wonder about the mental health and motivations of people who choose to work for firms like Blackwater. It is a shame that the people at the top at Blackwater and in the Bush administration will never be held accountable for the part they played in this mess.
17
" War is hell. " Be it in the form of atom bombs or beheadings , kidnappings innocent young women, burning people in cages , or destroying heritage sites . When people are faced with imminent danger, the survival mode kicks in . The only ones who don't respond as such : the suicide bomber mentality . They have no respect for life - including their own. War is indeed hell , and it can bring out the worst in people .
1
"Friends, relatives and former military friends spoke on behalf of the four men, describing them, through tears, as patriotic, small-town men who deeply loved their families and their country."
Yes, and so were many members of the SS. But the leaders of that group who survived were also put on trial. How would these people react if a bunch of Iraqis came and slaughtered their families? Good, patriotic, small-town Iraqis who deeply love their families and their country? Would they think that would excuse the crime?
Yes, and so were many members of the SS. But the leaders of that group who survived were also put on trial. How would these people react if a bunch of Iraqis came and slaughtered their families? Good, patriotic, small-town Iraqis who deeply love their families and their country? Would they think that would excuse the crime?
11
These despicable guys are just scapegoats.
Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Perle, Rice, Feith, Abrams and others are still free.
Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Perle, Rice, Feith, Abrams and others are still free.
18
As head of Blackwater, why wasn't Eric Prince prosecuted along with the other assassins
12
It is really a very unfortunate indictment on this country's morality that this event was only possible with the advent of this administration.
6
This is a disastrously insidious comment. These folks murdered people through overreaction to a perceived threat and ignorance of law.
To claim that it has something to do with leadership is ridiculous.
To claim that it has something to do with leadership is ridiculous.
I would suggest that you recall the previous motions of 2008 and 2010 which endeavoured to have brought this incident to trial as this seemed to have escaped you. Hardly a "disastrously insidious comment" surely?
1
Furthermore I quote from this NYT article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/13/us/emails-show-discord-between-fbi-and...®ion=Marginalia&pgtype=article
"....Mr. Patarini was incensed. “I would rather not present for a vote now and wait until the new administration takes office than to get an indictment that is an insult to the individual victims, the Iraqi people as a whole, and the American people who expect their Justice Department to act better than this,” he replied....."
Sorry, but your comment is utterly indefensible.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/13/us/emails-show-discord-between-fbi-and...®ion=Marginalia&pgtype=article
"....Mr. Patarini was incensed. “I would rather not present for a vote now and wait until the new administration takes office than to get an indictment that is an insult to the individual victims, the Iraqi people as a whole, and the American people who expect their Justice Department to act better than this,” he replied....."
Sorry, but your comment is utterly indefensible.
1
I think it is odd to call them "patriots" when the courtroom was a sea of red and black (not red, white and blue) -- these are the colors of the corporation they worked for, that set the standards for their conduct and paid them up to $1000 a day as employees, not as men sworn to protect the Constitution as soldiers would be.
33
This case is a classic political hatchet-job! Appeasing an Iranian-backed government in Baghdad just to get your name in the history books. What a travesty!
2
They killed at least 14 people, many of them women and kids, for no earthly reason.
Murdering mercenaries who got off easy. They should have been tried in an Iraqi court.
It may sound crass but "innocent civilians" intermingling themselves with insurgents and getting killed is colateral damage not a war crime. Additionally there seems to be very little understanding of the professional standards of these contractors; they are not blind killers. Its seems they are taking the fall to pacify the U.S. public's conscious and appease Iraqi people, nevermind how many of them killed each other. Anger directed to the Iraq war should be put in a more appropriate forum, not to the lives of four people.
3
They are killers. The only "insurgents" in Iraq were the Americans.
2
It may sound crasser, but shooting up a busy traffic intersection when you're not under attack doesn't argue for common sense, common decency,mor military competence.
1
Those civilians lived there. Where were they supposed to go? The crime is that we were there killing them.
1
This is a good reason to keep Jeb Bush as far from the presidency as possible. Using mercs was a cold blooded decision by the Bush Administration to keep the cost of the war down so people would not complain. It makes the TV show "American Odyssey very timely.
16
Good thought. To think that the nation wants to bring another set of identical gene and DNA structure to the one inhabiting the white House between 2000 and 2008 is risky to say the least, particularly when his advisors, both foreign and domestic are the same. It is a simple computer model: Same input, same processing, same output. GIGO: Garbage in, garbage out.
1
Nixon understood that a private army would give enormous power to the President shielding him and future Presidents from a public interested in protecting their sons and daughters from unnecessary war.
We shouldn't be in these wars and wouldn't be if we had a drafted public army.
We shouldn't be in these wars and wouldn't be if we had a drafted public army.
This is real science they practice in Boston nowadays. Eugenics has been discredited, but you think you can discern future behavior in someone's DNA? Or some some computer data model?
Bush this, Bush that, blah blah blah. Let us not forget that the war in Iraq wasn't just Bush's war, lest you forget that a large majority of Congress voted in favor of it, and many, like Hillary Clinton even admit to never reading intel reports.
3
Yes but who provided the evidence and the fodder for the war. WMD's were a myth invented by the Bush administration and yet presented in a grand and vocal manner before the UN. It was a lie.
6
I think few, if any, voted to send mercenaries. That was Bush and his cronies. Privatizing war made several of their buddies rich. That's a lot of the blah, blah.
5
Bush spent 16 months campaigning for Cheney's Halliburton war in Iraq. Sorry if history has you tied in too truthful knots.
2
Lets see.
People in an enemy trully afraid for their live shooting and killing non US Citizens in an attempt to do their job and protect American Diplomatic Personenn - sentenced for life.
US Cops on their own turf CLAIMING to be in fear for their life from unarmed Black Men thus shooting them to death - Acquitted or not even prosecuted.
From the same Justice System that declared Corporations to be People too, What a great Country
People in an enemy trully afraid for their live shooting and killing non US Citizens in an attempt to do their job and protect American Diplomatic Personenn - sentenced for life.
US Cops on their own turf CLAIMING to be in fear for their life from unarmed Black Men thus shooting them to death - Acquitted or not even prosecuted.
From the same Justice System that declared Corporations to be People too, What a great Country
5
I will never forget the story of Abeer, the 14-year-old Iraqi schoolgirl who feared for her safety every day while walking past a group of leering US Army soldiers. Eventually, these soldiers, led by Stephen Green, attacked Abeer's family at their home, killing them, and raped Abeer before murdering her. I am not going to forget that. Green said he didn't think of Iraqis as humans.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1340207/I-didnt-think-Iraqis-hum...
In this country, we are all partially to blame for his attitude and that of the Blackwater killers. And we are even more to blame if we vote for politicians who call these men "patriots." Nor is every soldier a hero. This pandering to nationalistic, xenophobic pride should be criticized more by the media and by progressive legislators. But I fear it will only increase in the next election.
Never forget.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1340207/I-didnt-think-Iraqis-hum...
In this country, we are all partially to blame for his attitude and that of the Blackwater killers. And we are even more to blame if we vote for politicians who call these men "patriots." Nor is every soldier a hero. This pandering to nationalistic, xenophobic pride should be criticized more by the media and by progressive legislators. But I fear it will only increase in the next election.
Never forget.
41
Note there are a number of posters who still feel that way. They refer to justice for the murder of children as "appeasing Iraqis" It is all very very sad.
With Hillary at the helm, you can count on it.
There is enough tragedy to go around here. The killing of unarmed civilians cannot be tolerated, but the punishment handed out is also a tragedy.
1
The consequesnces of the use of mercenaries and the privatization of war.... These companies should be shut down.They are making millions from murder. It is a disgrace to our country.
31
If the Vietnam experience was the defining event which resulted in the loss of American foreign policy innocence, the Bush administration's war in the Middle East, coupled to the wrecking of the middle class, has resulted in nothing less than cynicism and distrust in government itself as an institution.
These convictions will go down as another bookmark event in understanding how out of control and how divorced the people who ran that war were from the basic goodness of vast majority of the American people.
As Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al have yet to answer for their conduct—and likely will never have to do so—Eric Prince, who ran Blackwater when these horrific murders occurred walks the streets a free man.
These convictions will go down as another bookmark event in understanding how out of control and how divorced the people who ran that war were from the basic goodness of vast majority of the American people.
As Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al have yet to answer for their conduct—and likely will never have to do so—Eric Prince, who ran Blackwater when these horrific murders occurred walks the streets a free man.
20
Eric Prince, who ran Blackwater when these horrific murders occurred walks the streets a VERY WEALTHY free man.
I agree with the Judge. These guys are guilty as charged. Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld et al are guilty of war crimes.
22
Blackwater people are the mirror image of our "Enemy combatants" definition. They cannot be protected by Geneva conventions as they are not part of the US army. Thus if they are caught by the enemy (as they were once and their burned bodies displayed) they cannot be not protected by Geneva conventions. By contracting Blackwater go to the conflict areas our Government did a great injustice to its citizens working for Blackwater.
3
So much for the Bush/Cheney hocus pocus of Iraqis welcoming the US bestowal of freedom and democracy.
13
So are these mercenaries all that different from the mercenaries who now patrol the streets of the American police state searching for victims under the guise of "law enforcement"?
2
You would equate sworn law enforcement officers with mercenaries? When things get dodgy in your sun drenched hood, who are you going to call? The Salvation Army?
And, don't forget to vote for Hillary, she will straighten everything out.
And, don't forget to vote for Hillary, she will straighten everything out.
They got the wrong murderers.
Georgie Dickie condie rummy pearl and the rest should have jumpsuit with their numbers on them.
Georgie Dickie condie rummy pearl and the rest should have jumpsuit with their numbers on them.
8
It's dick and George who sent them in to do their dirty work who should be sent to prison for the rest of their lives
12
"whether State Department contractors are covered by American criminal law when operating overseas"--this is a question, why? If we protect or retrieve Americans wherever they a e, why do our laws not follow and apply to them wherever they are?
4
Bring back the draft. At least all Americans will have a reason to stay involved and do all possible not to have wars.
Just a humorous thought but what if all draftees were republicans whose lives would be on the line?
Just a humorous thought but what if all draftees were republicans whose lives would be on the line?
13
What happened in Nisour Square does not sound much different than what happens after certain police stops in this country. It's like these gun bearing men (and occasionally women) enter some mental vortex and the tool to bring themselves out is all too often their service weapon.
What a drag for the victims that they have to be in the path of these people trying to reclaim their sanity, one bullet at a time.
What a drag for the victims that they have to be in the path of these people trying to reclaim their sanity, one bullet at a time.
3
Mental vortex that police have to shoot their way our of? I moved to PDX hoping to escape this type of Florida logic. Bad move on my part, I guess.
Why does the media always insist on using the term `unarmed`? There really is no such thing as an unarmed person. Its simply a way for you to ridicule that which you don't understand.
3
Unarmed? It means that you have automatic weapons and lots of them and the civilians including women and kids have none.
It's kind of like if you're some sort of idiot Ted Nugent fan at a concert, you are part of the noise pollution and the little old lady down the street who gives piano lessons on Sundays is not.
It's kind of like if you're some sort of idiot Ted Nugent fan at a concert, you are part of the noise pollution and the little old lady down the street who gives piano lessons on Sundays is not.
If one person is carrying a bag of groceries and another, an AK-47, how would you succinctly describe the difference between them?
Do you know how a dictionary works? Merriam-Webster (and I'm sure that others have this definition too) says, "1 a : furnished with weapons 'an ~ guard'." I vaguely remember that somebody took issue with the media reporting that Michael Brown was "unarmed" because he had two arms, but there's no reason to propagate this simple-minded take on the matter.
The Bush Cheney administration opted for mercenaries because they probably didn't want to spoil the image of the real US forces who may have not been enthused fighting wars against countries that weren't a threat to them. There are probably far more atrocities committed by hired mercenaries then we are told. The men who killed civilians indiscriminately may have assumed that they will get a free pass from prosecution here at home. These actions are morally wrong and against all conventions. To call them patriotic is an oxymoron.These men received the sentences they deserve. They knew the rules, they chose to break them. The fallout from this disastrous military engagement is not over yet.There is absolutely nothing redeeming about this ugly conflict, just pain, misery and bankruptcy.
16
It is too bad that these men can't be sent to Iraq where they could serve their sentences in an Iraqi prison. That just might serve as a deterrent to other mercenaries who think that while they are employed by the United States government they are immune from prosecution for crimes committed on foreign soil.
The Blackwater soldiers were convicted, but what about all the others who participated in atrocities connected with the Iraq war? In particular, what about the torturers? What about those in power who misled us by seeing what they wanted in the intelligence rather than what was there? Men like Cheney who knew what they wanted, and men like Powell who were duped.
16
Does that include Hillary? She voted for the morass in Iraq. She admits to not bothering to read the intelligence reports, so does that make her guilty of non-feasance? This type of logic is a very slippery slope.
If we as Americans want to reclaim our government and our future, there is only one way to break the back of endless war and exploitation by the 1%:
RE-ELECT NO ONE!
If we as Americans want to reclaim our government and our future, there is only one way to break the back of endless war and exploitation by the 1%:
RE-ELECT NO ONE!
Start a decade long war for no apparent reason - good to go. Conduct the operations of that war from your desk - great. Contribute to the continuation of the war - hey, that's awesome, there's money to be made. Kill some people in that war - war criminal.
Nothing can excuse what was apparently a spastic response to perceived threat, but what about all the very highly paid "geniuses" who put them there, made the rules they operated under, put the people on the ground who needed protection, kept the war going, extended the mission, and profited from that war. Easy to put the entire blame on the guy who pulled the trigger while the ones who put him there and are responsible for all the deaths and all the destruction go completely blameless.
Another very visible case of the opposite of "much is expected from those to whom much is given." In this case, as in so many others "nothing is expected from those to whom much is given." Universal absolution for the elite in every branch of government and industry while all blame is laid at the feet of those with no power who do all the actual work.
Nothing can excuse what was apparently a spastic response to perceived threat, but what about all the very highly paid "geniuses" who put them there, made the rules they operated under, put the people on the ground who needed protection, kept the war going, extended the mission, and profited from that war. Easy to put the entire blame on the guy who pulled the trigger while the ones who put him there and are responsible for all the deaths and all the destruction go completely blameless.
Another very visible case of the opposite of "much is expected from those to whom much is given." In this case, as in so many others "nothing is expected from those to whom much is given." Universal absolution for the elite in every branch of government and industry while all blame is laid at the feet of those with no power who do all the actual work.
92
Well said. You have defined the crux of the problem. Too bad it's not being addressed. These guys, however horrendous their behavior, are just a bit of math in the calculations of the rich and powerful.
Now onto Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitc, Rice and Rumsfeld, the real assassins.
55
I'm not being in the slightest bit sarcastic, but why don't you start a real petition on that rather than cut these mercenaries any slack. These Blackwater folks are real assassins.
6
Your point is well taken but without Bush, et al these guys would not have been there.
1
Assassins is a derivative of the word Hashishin, are you trying to say that these black water contractors are really part of the Nizari Ismailis, and Islamic cult that formed in the late 11th century?
Follow the money....We need to ask who is the world's largest producer of military weapons? And maybe services for hire? It might be notable and then question the legality of the sentencing. Where does one stand when employed by a government contractor with an agreement for some type of military aid and then perhaps interpreting the situation with a wrong response. If they openly denied action would they have been tried for treason? This was a Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld coalition.
11
They should have been tried in Iraq. This US trial only served to let them off lightly, and to encourage the US government in its continuing assertions of extraterritorial jurisdiction.
12
Trying them here sent a message to Blackwater and other firms who provide these mercenaries telling them that they will not be protected by our government when they screw up. What I would like to see is these guys having to serve their time in an Iraqi prison.
What is the difference between a Mafia God Father who orders hit-men to rub out an enemy, or Cheney & Bush hiring the Blackwater killers to kill Iraqi's? The Godfather is culpable & is considered guilty of murder.Shouldn't Cheney & Bush be thrown in jail with their hired killers? I'm sure they could find someone to take care of their vast holdings while they rot in Jail.
29
These guys are not saints, but they are also taking the rap for the crimes of George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, and Condolezza Rice. They are the ones who should be locked up.
32
Why do such groups even exist?
13
huge sums of money
The simple answer to your rhetorical question is this: Profit, my naïve one, profit.
A more thoughtful answer to your deceptively simple question begins like this: These groups exist so that the Bushes, Cheneys, Rices and Rumsfelds of the world can prosecute a dirty little, unnecessary war to protect their oil fiefdoms, without having to draft Americans. A draft would have subjected the administration to a far higher degree of interest and oversight by the American people. It's one thing to lie to the people; it's another thing altogether to take their kids.
One lesson we can take away is that it is very important to engage our political process and choose our leaders wisely.
A more thoughtful answer to your deceptively simple question begins like this: These groups exist so that the Bushes, Cheneys, Rices and Rumsfelds of the world can prosecute a dirty little, unnecessary war to protect their oil fiefdoms, without having to draft Americans. A draft would have subjected the administration to a far higher degree of interest and oversight by the American people. It's one thing to lie to the people; it's another thing altogether to take their kids.
One lesson we can take away is that it is very important to engage our political process and choose our leaders wisely.
They exit because there is a lot of money to be made.
These Mercenaries would best be labled juist thugs. It is shameful that this Country has to hire contractors as oppossed to Military Fighting Men who are always subject to the UCMJ when it comes to Atrocities like this. Many of these thugs even threatened GIs with death if they were even questioned by a Combat U.S. Troop as to their actions. U.S. Troops immunity only means that can be tried in U.S. Military Courts and not in the Country where they are serving in Combat roles. The Blackwater Group assumed the role of Judge, Jury and Executioner throughout their time in Iraq. Many of those Contractors were not ex Military, - just low level cops in the U.S. who saw the chance for Big Paychecks as Contractors! (One only has to read the News today to see how poorly our Police in many depts. in the U.S. are vetted and trained - have a Gun and a Badge and literally assasinate people of color at will for the most minor of infractions! People given a License to kill should be immedaitely subject to indictment and not protected by any Union Contract or their supervisors)!
Command and Control? I think not! The Principals of Blackwater should be prosecuted as well for its complete lack of proper Command and Control with their merry Mercenaries!
Command and Control? I think not! The Principals of Blackwater should be prosecuted as well for its complete lack of proper Command and Control with their merry Mercenaries!
16
But Bush and Cheney and Rice go free.... Why don't we prosecute the REAL war criminals instead of the pawns?
26
They have money and have put layers and layers of scapegoats between themselves and their actions.
What about Geroge W. Bush who has the blood of over a hundred thousand
Iraqis on his soul? It is not the chief criminals who are being judged, only
their foot soldiers. Dick Cheney and W. should be convicted as war criminals,
for that is what they are.
Iraqis on his soul? It is not the chief criminals who are being judged, only
their foot soldiers. Dick Cheney and W. should be convicted as war criminals,
for that is what they are.
23
If one is a believer in a Christian afterlife (unfortunately I'm not) then they will be judged and spend eternity in the fires of hell where they belong.
Please understand I am talking beyond this case: since when is emotion a fact to be considered in a trial, unless it is that of the defendant as part of a defense? >>> "“There was a lady. She was screaming and weeping about her son and asking for help,” Sarhan Deab Abdul Moniem, an Iraqi traffic officer, testified. He showed jurors how she had cradled her dead son’s head on her shoulder. “I asked her to open up the door so I could help her. But she was paying attention only to her son.”>>>>>>>This is dangerous stuff. It does nothing to understand facts in a case related to the charge, and is meant to sway a jury via emotion. Justice comes from dry fact, law and sober deliberation.
3
This should be read because this tactic is being used by the defense in the Aurora theater massacre trial. They asked the judge to stop any witnesses from being emotional.
So no room for humanity in our courtrooms? The mentality of dehumanization is what created this mess and so many others in our society. We need more humanness, not less.
1
Vlad, the facts as you describe them are relevant to whether or not the Blackwater shooters perceived any threat. A woman screaming about her son before she was shot is not a threat. A woman who is cradling her dead son's head on her shoulder while seated in a car is not a threat before she is killed. The dangerous stuff would be to not allow the jury to hear all of the evidence before rendering their verdict. Blackwater targeted civilians. Bullet holes where found in the headrests of the Kinani vehicle - where 9 year old Ali was shot in the back seat. A bus of civilians was riddled with bullets. Cars were shot through the roof as the convey fled the scene. These were not threat targets - they were target practice for these murderers.
Justice will only be served when Cheney, Bush, Rice and Rumsfeld are sentenced to long prison terms for taking the US into a totally unnecessary war that cost hundreds of thousands of lives and trillions of dollars. Their perfidious actions have weakened and divided the country, and the damage they have inflicted upon the nation will take decades to heal.
31
I am surprised -- and I take no pleasure in it -- that these long sentences were handed down. Lt. William Calley, who was in charge of the massacre of women and children and old people at My Lai, was given a life sentence, which turned to house arrest, and then, under Nixon, to a presidential pardon. In the event there is a President Rubio (get your head around that), these men will be free. This is the awful consequence of war, compounded in this instance, by the privatization of what should really be done by the military.
15
This is not the awful consequence of war. That is an excuse. These men were lose cannons who had no rules of engagement. They are and were untrained mercenaries who slaughtered people. They should pay for their crimes.
The conviction of these four mercenaries at least gives the appearance of justice. However, we are reminded that the Iraqi war was started on the basis of specious arguments by the George W. Bush administration in 2001. George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Condoleeza Rice, and their henchmen started an unnecessary war and should all be tried for crimes against humanity in the International Court of Justice in the Hague.
The entire Iraqi war has been an atrocity. The Iraqi war was completely unjustified, resulting in the deaths of 4,000 American servicemen and women, tens of thousands of Iraqis killed, hundreds of thousands wounded and crippled, destruction of Iraq's infrastructure, trillions of dollars of treasure wasted, all for no reason at all.
There will be no justice until the former Bush administration officials are held responsible for their crimes.
The entire Iraqi war has been an atrocity. The Iraqi war was completely unjustified, resulting in the deaths of 4,000 American servicemen and women, tens of thousands of Iraqis killed, hundreds of thousands wounded and crippled, destruction of Iraq's infrastructure, trillions of dollars of treasure wasted, all for no reason at all.
There will be no justice until the former Bush administration officials are held responsible for their crimes.
24
Contrast this ruling with the zero jail time served by any of the marines involved in the Haditha massacre, in which 24 unarmed Iraqi civilians, including a 76 year old man in a wheel chair and 6 children were executed at point blank range. The now free-ranging war criminal, former Marine Staff Sergeant Frank Wuterich was quoted as actually uttering the line "shoot first and ask questions later". So the message here is clear: only Uncle Sam can protect your right to kill foreigners with impunity.
11
No, the message is that these are civilians who were accused of a crime and went through the justice system just like all civilians who are accused of crimes. There is a system in place for members of the military too. Whether or not each system is perfect or whether or not other individuals should be prosecuted is a separate question. Two wrongs don't make a right.
In a sense, I agree with the idea that only the army can kill "foreigners" in that contractors acting like members of the military regardless of their background doesn't make them American soldiers. They are private contractors, a.k.a. civilians. They don't answer to the U.S. military chain of command, they do not have the same constraints or obligations. This is an opportunity to reexamine how it is more efficient for private contractors to make millions off of the reduced size of the legitimate U.S. military and what system is in place to guide their behavior as defacto representatives of the United States.
In a sense, I agree with the idea that only the army can kill "foreigners" in that contractors acting like members of the military regardless of their background doesn't make them American soldiers. They are private contractors, a.k.a. civilians. They don't answer to the U.S. military chain of command, they do not have the same constraints or obligations. This is an opportunity to reexamine how it is more efficient for private contractors to make millions off of the reduced size of the legitimate U.S. military and what system is in place to guide their behavior as defacto representatives of the United States.
Cheney´s stupefying hypocrisy when he poo poos the torture report ("it´s full of crap") is beyond the pale. This man more than any other is responsible for a total disregard for human rights and
the trashing of moral/ethical principles in the deliberate processing of an illegal war. His argument is thick with vague, nonsensical drivel. He has no credibility. He still insists the Iraq war was noble, necessary, and just. He and his neocon minions had argued at the outset that a pre-emptive strike was necessary to take out confirmed WMDs (the so-called Bush doctrine). They said it would be quick (a few mths) and the cost est. of $50-60 billion would be covered by plentiful Iraqi oil. He said later as unbudgeted costs mounted that deficits didn´t matter.
Well it did matter. Total costs still unpaid and counting are $3 trillion, and the misguided war lasted 8 yrs. And the political dynamic in the middle east has been altered dramatically with Iran gaining an ally and widening its influence significantly, amidst the re-emergence of bitter tribal rivalries. This hocus pocus of Iraqis welcoming the US bestowal of freedom and democracy was bogus. And everybody knows that the WMD story was an intricately conceived lie.
the trashing of moral/ethical principles in the deliberate processing of an illegal war. His argument is thick with vague, nonsensical drivel. He has no credibility. He still insists the Iraq war was noble, necessary, and just. He and his neocon minions had argued at the outset that a pre-emptive strike was necessary to take out confirmed WMDs (the so-called Bush doctrine). They said it would be quick (a few mths) and the cost est. of $50-60 billion would be covered by plentiful Iraqi oil. He said later as unbudgeted costs mounted that deficits didn´t matter.
Well it did matter. Total costs still unpaid and counting are $3 trillion, and the misguided war lasted 8 yrs. And the political dynamic in the middle east has been altered dramatically with Iran gaining an ally and widening its influence significantly, amidst the re-emergence of bitter tribal rivalries. This hocus pocus of Iraqis welcoming the US bestowal of freedom and democracy was bogus. And everybody knows that the WMD story was an intricately conceived lie.
26
And so continues the most fervent wish and pipe dream of the American left that Bush and Cheney will eventually be put in the stocks in downtown Manhattan so liberals from near and far can come and throw tomatoes at them. Hillary, however, will be conveniently left out/forgotten/forgiven for her "war mongering" and support of the "military industrial complex" because she's, you know, a democrat (and a POTUS contender).
2
I don't know where you're reading, but look at any article about Hillary in the Times, and check out the comments. Plenty of us "on the Left" haven't forgotten her vote for war, and are less than excited about her candidacy.
2
Bush and Cheney knew what they were doing—concocting false intelligence to justify a war that never should have happened. They twisted arms to rewrite the statutes of what comprises torture and deliberately violated international law. They should be tried as war criminals and as traitors. Hillary should be tarred with the same brush because she a s a senator went along with the false presentations of the executive branch? Hardly a comparison. Nice try
These men are mercenaries, plain and simple. Not so called patriots and deserve all the jail time they can get. Unfortunately, the master war criminals like Erik Prince, W and Cheney walk away with millions.
19
The tragedy of this for America is that these are "good young men" who profoundly believe in their innocence -- that it is innocent for Americans to kill Iraqis for being Iraqis. The ignorance and failure to act to correct this ignorance, is our shame.
15
Blackwater is adept at cold-blooded murder. Clearing intersections with machine-gun fire had been standard operating procedure. The wonder is the present verdict, which I am confident will not be allowed to stand. America is on the brink of fascism. Whether Blackwater, CIA, drone assassination, covert operations, regime change, sanctions and dollar diplomacy, America is determined to have its way in the world at the expense of humankind. Will Hillary applaud the verdict or, as is constantly happening, withdraw within the safety of the National Security State?
8
What these men was reprehensible, but so was the actions of their superiors who put them in that situation and allowed it to happen.
Why are their superiors not being investigated? Where is the trial for the people who made billions of dollars policing a foreign nation under the guise of "security"? I'm terrified of a future of PMC war zones fought on proxy battlefields between nations who don't even have their own people on the ground...it has already begun in the Middle East against ISIL and will continue to spread if left unchecked.
Why are their superiors not being investigated? Where is the trial for the people who made billions of dollars policing a foreign nation under the guise of "security"? I'm terrified of a future of PMC war zones fought on proxy battlefields between nations who don't even have their own people on the ground...it has already begun in the Middle East against ISIL and will continue to spread if left unchecked.
7
One should never ridicule public figures in such a jejeune, childish manner as your wrier, Mike the Bear has just done in his comment. He should review his history. Every major conflict in which we have been fought in the 20th century has been initiated by a Democratic administration, from the Great War of '14, the Second World War, the Korean War and as well as our intervention in the former French Indochina, Vietnam. Mike the Bear should also recall that the vote to go to war in 2003 was bi partisan. Those Democrats who voted against the Iraq war demanded a second vote so they could get on board with the hawks. Recall also John Kerry's lame remark that "I voted for the war before I voted against it!"The war in Iraq was fought for geo political reasons.Bush is an easy target, admittedly, but we don't know what v.p Al Gore would have done had he become president. I think Mike the Bear should review his history before he ridicules respected public figures and makes snap judgements about events of which he appears to have only a superficial understanding.
2
And that's exactly why I did not vote for John Kerry and will never vote for Hillary Clinton. They were both afraid that a vote against the war might hurt their future presidential ambitions. Bad choice. But all of that has nothing to do with the crime these men committed, which is another issue altogether.
So the executives at Blackwater and the lying warmongers who hired the firm are completely off the hook. Typical. It's about time this country stopped ignoring the crimes of the Bush administration in hoodwinking this country into a war whose only purpose was profit.
But then, traitors within our own government, such as the Senators and Representatives who have illegally and unconstitutionally taken foreign policy matters into their own hands will never be held accountable, will they.
But then, traitors within our own government, such as the Senators and Representatives who have illegally and unconstitutionally taken foreign policy matters into their own hands will never be held accountable, will they.
5
Why all the cries and recriminations?
More than 70 percent of Americans supported the Iraq invasion in 2003, including all major media outlets. I remember when opposing it was deemed "unpatriotic, pro-terrorist or unamerican."
Bush even got re-elected in the midst of this fiasco.
More than 70 percent of Americans supported the Iraq invasion in 2003, including all major media outlets. I remember when opposing it was deemed "unpatriotic, pro-terrorist or unamerican."
Bush even got re-elected in the midst of this fiasco.
12
The answer to "why all the cries and recriminations" is in your next sentence. All the major media outlets convinced 70 percent of the people that the government lies were true and helped reelect Bush. People don't like being hoodwinked and taxed (robbed) to finance a senseless war.
The elite oligarchs who control the military/industrial/financial/media complex are very adept at manipulating the populace through well-designed propaganda. You can always fool some of the people some of the time.
The elite oligarchs who control the military/industrial/financial/media complex are very adept at manipulating the populace through well-designed propaganda. You can always fool some of the people some of the time.
This isn't about outsourcing, as some commenters claim. This is the result of the yahoo gun culture in our country, which teaches ignorant men that guns are good, people either Good or Bad, due process is for sissies, America is always right, and violence solves problems. They do not believe in diplomacy, democracy, law, or history, only force. Where did they learn this? Action movies, video games, pandering tv networks and opportunistic politicians. And an extremely bad secondary school education.
10
It should be illegal for the US government to contract with private security firms to fight our "unnecessary" wars such as Iraq. The next step should be to renew the draft with no deferments for healthy Americans to wait out the war in a University . That way the next time someone gets the wise idea to launch a preventive war Americans will have a stake in making sure its government is not lying them into an Iraq like debacle. Maybe then Republicans would not be so anxious to ally them selves with foreign governments such as Israel in efforts to torpedo negotiations with Iran so they can bomb Iran in the unlikely event a Republican makes it to the White House.
10
The Iraqis fired first. These are good men with exemplary records. We did nothing wrong.
Notice the similarities between these phrases and the ones used by police officers and their defenders, after shooting unarmed Black men. Same cover ups. Same lies.
Notice the similarities between these phrases and the ones used by police officers and their defenders, after shooting unarmed Black men. Same cover ups. Same lies.
7
Why is the only mention of Blackwater in the past tense? Why no mention of its founder, still a free man and still selling soldiers-for-profit? Why not explain why these men who are in prison probably do believe that they did nothing wrong? Who made them believe that? This is an important part of the story that should be explored.
12
Using the logic that sent these guys to jail forever, all the troops who fought there are awaiting indictment and prison. "But these were contractors." If I hire someone to kill my imaginary wife, whether I use troops or contractors to do it, we are all guilty. Does anyone believe these 4 were quicker on the trigger than anyone else facing urban warfare? Don't entire platoons open up when one guy opens up, even if mistaken? Don't we call that 'having our brother's back'? Weren't we sent here by people who get a lifetime government pension?
3
And Bush, Cheney, Rummy, and other neo-cons walk onto the campus of think tanks, universities and national news networks. It is not enough to prosecute the killers of Blackwater but the murderers of our government who have disgraced this country and committed egregious war crimes against humanity.
10
So what has been accomplished here? We throw Americans under the bus for an offense that is commonplace in Iraq; before and after, Blackwater's presence in that country. We would send Jack Armstrong to prison to satisfy our quest for fairplay and decency in the eyes of the world. This country has always been hypocritical in its action , propping up the Samozas, and other despots who were in lockstep with this country's skewed foreign policy. As for the comments from some of my Vietnam peers; it sounds like they have forgotten the lessons of that conflict, and now voice their disgust of an issue that our federal judiciary and law enforcement, should have not been involved in. The judge being an ex-JAG officer is incidental in this rush to judgement. We send the Serbs and the Africans to the Hauge. We are the good guys, and can not trust others to judge our actions, so like the Roman legions of old, we symbolically kill ever tenth man, to justify our self righteous image.
2
WHO IS MOST TO BLAME?
Would this situation have come to be if the mainstream press and media had told the truth about Bush, Cheney et al years ago? Would they have been elected and given the power to make a ruinous war against Iraq if the mainstream media had not lied about them and went along with invading Iraq? Would these young men be so criminally deluded to think that what they did was OK and that they could get away it if the press and media had told the truth about people in other countries?
It is understandable that those who manage the mainstream media do the bidding of their profit-seeking owners, but this shows how lethal it is to lie. Americans would not be where we are now if the mainstream press and media had not consistently told half truths for so many years. If nothing else than a greater distrust of the mainstream press and media and a greater anger at their lies comes out of this situation, then it will not be entirely in vain.
Would this situation have come to be if the mainstream press and media had told the truth about Bush, Cheney et al years ago? Would they have been elected and given the power to make a ruinous war against Iraq if the mainstream media had not lied about them and went along with invading Iraq? Would these young men be so criminally deluded to think that what they did was OK and that they could get away it if the press and media had told the truth about people in other countries?
It is understandable that those who manage the mainstream media do the bidding of their profit-seeking owners, but this shows how lethal it is to lie. Americans would not be where we are now if the mainstream press and media had not consistently told half truths for so many years. If nothing else than a greater distrust of the mainstream press and media and a greater anger at their lies comes out of this situation, then it will not be entirely in vain.
7
Civilian casualties in the unprovoked military action in Iraq were legion. The famous video of a US helicopter killing several what turned out to be journalists while the crew joked about just shows the depths of the USs involvement in Iraq. George Bush wants to promote that he is a folksy nice guy while being the promoter of such sad abuses of military power do not jibe.
12
It is time for Americans to demand that Congress reinstate the draft. That is the only way they do not lead the nation into perpetual war through one Middle Eastern and north African nation at a time. Let Congress try to sell the American people on a war with Iran (or Syria or Libya or Yemen, etc...) when every single American of draft age faces the possibility/likelihood of having to wear the uniform and stand the post. It will never happen. They know it and that is why Bush/Cheney moved towards mercenaries instead.
Private military contractors absolutely means never-ending warfare by design. Get rid of the privatization and put all functions back into the very capable hands of members of our armed forces.
Final note: Every great empire in the history of mankind that transformed it's military into privatized mercenary forces did crumble and spectacularly. It has never worked well and it will not work well now. Enough!
Private military contractors absolutely means never-ending warfare by design. Get rid of the privatization and put all functions back into the very capable hands of members of our armed forces.
Final note: Every great empire in the history of mankind that transformed it's military into privatized mercenary forces did crumble and spectacularly. It has never worked well and it will not work well now. Enough!
16
These murders were the prime reason Iraq refused to allow a residual U.S. military force to remain, which paved the way for the Islamic State to conquer much of the country.
And the killers worked for a corporation, not the American people. We just got to pay them -- and pay them much more than we used to pay U.S. Marines for State Department security. And the same scenario played out later in Benghazi.
It's long past the time to end contractors' role in U.S. military and diplomatic operations.
And the killers worked for a corporation, not the American people. We just got to pay them -- and pay them much more than we used to pay U.S. Marines for State Department security. And the same scenario played out later in Benghazi.
It's long past the time to end contractors' role in U.S. military and diplomatic operations.
20
They panicked and reacted in the way that those judging them would do had they been in the same situation.
What kind of a world is the left attempting to create where human beings cannot react as humans to defend themselves when their very lives are threatened?
Such results, coming from left whose reactions are mostly based on mere
emotion themselves, punish others for natural human emotional reactions.
Perhaps to the left, the crime is being human, but then only certain humans, as the left deems worthy, are permitted to act so.
What kind of a world is the left attempting to create where human beings cannot react as humans to defend themselves when their very lives are threatened?
Such results, coming from left whose reactions are mostly based on mere
emotion themselves, punish others for natural human emotional reactions.
Perhaps to the left, the crime is being human, but then only certain humans, as the left deems worthy, are permitted to act so.
2
"What kind of a world is the left attempting to create where human beings cannot react as humans to defend themselves when their very lives are threatened?"
According to the eye witnesses and investigation they were not threatened nor defending themselves.
According to the eye witnesses and investigation they were not threatened nor defending themselves.
By your own reasoning, and I would agree with you, if the Iraqi military were in the streets of New York , you couldn't blame a US citizen to defend their Country
"Private American security firm..." - translation - warmongering for cash.
15
Perhaps a bit off topic, but the Blackwater atrocities are part and parcel of our failing state.
It is becoming more difficult every day to see in the worldwide media, what we have become, and how none appear to be willing to to something about it.
We kill here at home, Black Americans, with apparent impunity, unless it's surreptitiously caught on video, we have militarized our police departments to instill fear in the general populace, our government is engaged in the wholesale monitoring of the populace, we take advantage of our workers, by refusing to pay them a living wage, we deny those same workers affordable health care, those who are "fortunate" to have a job, are made to work longer hours, for less pay, threatened with the reality there are thousands waiting to claim the right to this economic enslavement.
And then we set our warped vision on the the rest of the planet, with wars of opportunity, secret trade agreements, such as the TPP (Trans-Pacific Partnership), designed to further our economic enslavement.
Yes indeed, the American Dream, is soon to be the American Nightmare, unless we do something about it.
It is becoming more difficult every day to see in the worldwide media, what we have become, and how none appear to be willing to to something about it.
We kill here at home, Black Americans, with apparent impunity, unless it's surreptitiously caught on video, we have militarized our police departments to instill fear in the general populace, our government is engaged in the wholesale monitoring of the populace, we take advantage of our workers, by refusing to pay them a living wage, we deny those same workers affordable health care, those who are "fortunate" to have a job, are made to work longer hours, for less pay, threatened with the reality there are thousands waiting to claim the right to this economic enslavement.
And then we set our warped vision on the the rest of the planet, with wars of opportunity, secret trade agreements, such as the TPP (Trans-Pacific Partnership), designed to further our economic enslavement.
Yes indeed, the American Dream, is soon to be the American Nightmare, unless we do something about it.
10
Mr. Farrell makes some very telling points. Our interests are being subverted by the secret TPP, we are spied on incessantly, high tech military equipment is being supplied to police departments who do not want or need it, and your American citizenship is no longer a shield to having a drone fire a Hellfire missile at you in a foreign country. Very scary stuff, but all of the above are policies of the Obama administration and no one else.
Those guys were only doing their jobs as ordered by the U.S. government. But terrorists who kill Americans and are captured and given the luxury of a court trial here, rarely ever receive a long prison term.
1
Seriously? Isn't the "blind sheik" still in prison? They don't get out.
1
Murder isn't "part of their job."
1
Interesting that our fine military "heroes" are now most accurately compared to terrorists.
2
We need to end the use of mercenaries in the United States, and end the immoral practice of letting "for profit" corporations own & operate U.S. Prison facilities.
12
I'm trying to imagine the courtroom full of people wearing Blackwater (mercenary) shirts. Were they trying to intimidate the judge?
13
They should have become police officers here in America, they would have walked.
13
The US has gone totally mad. Getting involved in issue which are not of any concern to the US citizens and then putting the citizens in the line of fire, is an insane thing. However, in a few years time, all US heroes will change, and those who fought for the nation will all become the criminals, as the national citizenry change.
7
This is what happens in war, any war. You can't do the actual fighting and killing without losing a part of your humanity. People reading about these men probably don't realize we're all capable of such acts given the right circumstances. Yes, they deserve jail no doubt. But in another time or place it might have been any of us. And as many have pointed out, the leaders who started the war (and their children) did not serve. Blood is on their hands too.
10
Yes, what about Dick Cheney, Bush 43, both responsible, and both currently sitting at home wallowing in the profits made.....
Mr. Cheney continues to push for the next war.....Pres. Obama, thought he was doing the Republicans a favor not prosecuting these people, well how did that go Mr. President?
What a mess
Mr. Cheney continues to push for the next war.....Pres. Obama, thought he was doing the Republicans a favor not prosecuting these people, well how did that go Mr. President?
What a mess
33
If Blackwater was truly
"America’s most prominent security contractor"
how come none of us over here had heard of them till this happened?
Secrecy, cronyism, weapon culture... from the top down.
"America’s most prominent security contractor"
how come none of us over here had heard of them till this happened?
Secrecy, cronyism, weapon culture... from the top down.
13
Nancy,
I'm not sure where you were reading, but Blackwater and its misdeeds have been covered in the Times and elsewhere, for years. And this is not its only scandal.
Here is a listing of 221 articles about Blackwater in the NYTimes. http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/blackwater_usa/ind...
I'm not sure where you were reading, but Blackwater and its misdeeds have been covered in the Times and elsewhere, for years. And this is not its only scandal.
Here is a listing of 221 articles about Blackwater in the NYTimes. http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/blackwater_usa/ind...
16
Because they were a very small outfit of no importance up until Bush/Cheney decided to invade two countries and to privatize the waging of war so that it would be an easier sell to Americans (and bring great revenues to the MIC).
3
Never thought I'd see this. When will we accept that patriotic white men who love their families and their country can also be dangerous killers of innocent civilians? Hats off to Judge Lamberth.
43
What about Cheney, Yoo et al?
I find the "we were lied to!" outrage ridiculous. The American people have no one to blame but themselves. The lies were so obvious that there is no excuse for doing nothing. That goes for the NYT's journalists who never asked the hard questions, and ridiculed or minimized that anti-war movement...and there were millions of us. It should have been ALL of us.
40
Absolutely right on comment, Rob. Really effective mainstream journalism may very well have prevented our invasion of that country . . and all that has followed.
Only the alternative news outlets like Democracy Now and Z Magazine were looking into the full stories.
Only the alternative news outlets like Democracy Now and Z Magazine were looking into the full stories.
1
and this is the reason why we should never, ever use civilians to do the jobs that uniformed military personnel should be doing. Any prosecution for illegal doings needs to be done by a military court with military jurors , not in Federal court in Maryland.
19
What is "this"? What would have been different if these men had been tried in a military court? Less severe punishment? Exoneration? I see.
"Friends, relatives and former military friends spoke on behalf of the four men, describing them, through tears, as patriotic, small-town men who deeply loved their families and their country."
This, we need to remember. We need to have it at the forefront of our minds the next time the lavishly-paid propagandists of the right try to whip us into a frenzy of bigotry here at home, or to lead us into the next highly-profitable war far away, merely by persuading us that all the evil of this world comes from people who don't look like these fine young "patriots."
We are trained to fear menacing "thugs" with dark skin in our own land, or Islamist "terrorists" out in that wide world that most Americans find so opaque and confusing.
But of course it's not that simple. Nice young white men with wholesome back stories, like something out of the Hollywood of another era--they can do evil in this world, if they are armed and paid and told someone will cover for them.
Indeed, as the story in yesterday's Times revealed, the Bush administration seems to have moved mountains to protect these killers from facing justice.
Nevertheless, they have faced it now, in the form of a fair trial ruled over by one of the best, most even-handed judges we have.
The dead are still dead--including a little boy just the age of my own grandson--but at least their killers are no longer strutting about believing that "American exceptionalism" is a license to kill.
This, we need to remember. We need to have it at the forefront of our minds the next time the lavishly-paid propagandists of the right try to whip us into a frenzy of bigotry here at home, or to lead us into the next highly-profitable war far away, merely by persuading us that all the evil of this world comes from people who don't look like these fine young "patriots."
We are trained to fear menacing "thugs" with dark skin in our own land, or Islamist "terrorists" out in that wide world that most Americans find so opaque and confusing.
But of course it's not that simple. Nice young white men with wholesome back stories, like something out of the Hollywood of another era--they can do evil in this world, if they are armed and paid and told someone will cover for them.
Indeed, as the story in yesterday's Times revealed, the Bush administration seems to have moved mountains to protect these killers from facing justice.
Nevertheless, they have faced it now, in the form of a fair trial ruled over by one of the best, most even-handed judges we have.
The dead are still dead--including a little boy just the age of my own grandson--but at least their killers are no longer strutting about believing that "American exceptionalism" is a license to kill.
63
yep, ISIS are the most wholesome, down to earth, patriotic people ever to burn prisoners alive, completely destroy multi thousand year old archaeological sites, force thousands of women into sexual slavery and force people to convert at gunpoint that you will ever want to meet
1
Thank you
I couldn't say it any better myself.
But, I regret to tell you, the neo-cons and the War Inc are not done.
Either HRC or any GOP president will sink us into another Middle East horror. They are laying the groundwork in Congress this week. Sadly, it's only a waiting time till Obama leaves office.
Then it's Deja Vu again.
I couldn't say it any better myself.
But, I regret to tell you, the neo-cons and the War Inc are not done.
Either HRC or any GOP president will sink us into another Middle East horror. They are laying the groundwork in Congress this week. Sadly, it's only a waiting time till Obama leaves office.
Then it's Deja Vu again.
Are we to believe that justice has been served because some pawns got their due.
Sadly this is what all too often counts as justice in America today.
Sadly this is what all too often counts as justice in America today.
15
To appear more hawkish and assuage the War Inc, madam neo-con will go around telling voters she will pardon these patriot heroes.
2
Want to bet? Not a chance. If a pardon is in the future of these heathens, it will happen only if a Republican wins the presidency in 2016.
5
This is what happens when we privatize the military. As a people, we allowed the establishment of a mercenary military force to fight our wars. This was/is the first step to our version of the French Foreign Legion - a fully expendable military force used to fight these messy wars that nobody else wants to fight.
36
Worse than that... it's "for profit war".
4
...and to do so in relative secrecy. It is a shameful episode in American history.
2
This is a sensationalized story. These guys were sent there by Masters of War, so were the troops. These murders occurred each day and news organizations with a specific focus (contractor rage) are blind to those events because to denigrate a man in uniform is unpatriotic and would require the planners to face prison. In fact, about 50,000 men would face prison using the logic which picked these guys out of a lineup.
Is this the lead up to the war crimes trials of Bush, Cheney, Rice and Rumsfeld?
81
Dream on; those four creatures together are responsible for mayhem and murder on an historic scale, and few Americans care one iota.
Too busy glued to, and ingesting the opiate of mind numbing drivel being foisted on them 24/7/365, by the corporate / government owned media.
Europeans still have some ability to reason left, but as the Americanization of the planet continues, the last vestiges of that ability are rapidly disappearing.
Too busy glued to, and ingesting the opiate of mind numbing drivel being foisted on them 24/7/365, by the corporate / government owned media.
Europeans still have some ability to reason left, but as the Americanization of the planet continues, the last vestiges of that ability are rapidly disappearing.
8
I wish.
5
We can only hope!!
4
It seems strange to have to say it, but there was a time when "mercenary" was a word with very negative connotations and "government contractors" worked on building projects and did not carry guns.
Mercenaries are hired killers: that is the job description. If they kill a "bad guy" then they deserve the same praise as when the victim in a mob hit turns out to be a reprehensible human being. America was born fighting mercenaries--Hessian levies and professional killers in red coats who had taken the King's shilling. In the twentieth century, mercenaries have propped up racist minority regimes in the colonial world and provided the muscle for foreign economic interests to exploit local people with impunity. Blackwater (in its many toxic manifestations) and other organizations like Craft (established by the part-killer/part-fantasist Chris Kyle) could not be farther away from the ideals upon which the country was founded.
The parts of America these "small town boys" loved are not the high words in the documents or the sacrifices that ordinary people have made to make these words have meaning. It is closer to the history of the slave patrols and the privately-funded Indian killers. I would like to see the political leadership who encouraged these organizations of hired guns (in order to keep the number of dead American soldiers manageable for the media-optics) to also pay a price for their crimes, but I think that the sentences for these mass-murderers-for-pay is just.
Mercenaries are hired killers: that is the job description. If they kill a "bad guy" then they deserve the same praise as when the victim in a mob hit turns out to be a reprehensible human being. America was born fighting mercenaries--Hessian levies and professional killers in red coats who had taken the King's shilling. In the twentieth century, mercenaries have propped up racist minority regimes in the colonial world and provided the muscle for foreign economic interests to exploit local people with impunity. Blackwater (in its many toxic manifestations) and other organizations like Craft (established by the part-killer/part-fantasist Chris Kyle) could not be farther away from the ideals upon which the country was founded.
The parts of America these "small town boys" loved are not the high words in the documents or the sacrifices that ordinary people have made to make these words have meaning. It is closer to the history of the slave patrols and the privately-funded Indian killers. I would like to see the political leadership who encouraged these organizations of hired guns (in order to keep the number of dead American soldiers manageable for the media-optics) to also pay a price for their crimes, but I think that the sentences for these mass-murderers-for-pay is just.
59
How did George W. Bush get away with using American citizens' tax dollars to hire a mercenary army to fight a war based on the faked evidence he had Colin Powell trot up to the U.N.?
94
America's answer to everything is shoot it, bomb it , kill it or buy it.
32
Robert,
You forgot "steal" it.
You forgot "steal" it.
13
We the People are the reason Bush & Co. were given free reign to commit war crimes. We the People allowed them into office knowing full well what they were going to do, after all, GW declared in his campaign that he would fix Hussein's wagon, and that could mean only one thing.
Before we get more responsible and intelligent politicians, we must first get a more responsible and intelligent voting population. I share your indignation at what those politicians did, including the mercenary army, but I am even more exasperated with my fellow citizens for swallowing whole obvious lies when evidence to the contrary was plentiful.
Before we get more responsible and intelligent politicians, we must first get a more responsible and intelligent voting population. I share your indignation at what those politicians did, including the mercenary army, but I am even more exasperated with my fellow citizens for swallowing whole obvious lies when evidence to the contrary was plentiful.
17
This is what we got whenAmerica eliminated the draft.
38
Exactly. There is something excellent about an armed force that at base do not want to be there but do so out of an obligation to their countrymen. Reinstate the draft today! Mercenaries have a blood lust; enlistees have a reluctance that is beneficial to our nation.
2
No, this what you get when you try to hide how badly the war was going. Hey, we don't have to use the military for security any more; those guys with guns? Why, heck, they're just kinda mall cops.
And why do you think a draft would prevent this kind of thing? My Lai was committed by soldiers who were mostly draftees.
And why do you think a draft would prevent this kind of thing? My Lai was committed by soldiers who were mostly draftees.
These thugs certainly belong in jail, no doubt, but this is just another example of how the powers that be are trying to mollify Americans in to thinking they really care about war atrocities. If they really cared, Bush and Cheney would be in prison for their callous disregard to human life also. This whole Blackwater dog and pony show is a farce.
45
And what of the owner of this perverse organization, that Prince punk? Why is he not in jail with these thugs? I'll tell you: moneyed Republican family, that's why.
1
These men should never have been sentenced to long prison terms. Killing during war should be looked at much differently then when you're in the safety of America. It's so easy for us to condemn the actions of these men without being in their shoes. It's not right what they did but prison isn't the answer. Probation is the answer and community service. I strongly believe we send thousands of men and women to prison without looking for alternatives.
4
I think it was President Carter who said," We will never have peace by killing each others children"
19
They murdered innocent men, women and children for no reason. You admit it was wrong. But think they should be given a slap on the wrist. Unbelievable but a very prevalent attitude among Republicans (who btw tried to derail this prosecution during the waning days of the Bush administration as the NYT described yesterday) who have a very weird idea of American honor. This massacre, because that's what it was, is just another gruesome footnote to the entire Iraq debacle that was responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of Iraqis not to mention over 4000 Americans and we're still living with the consequences both in Iraq which was destabilized and at home with thousands of maimed vets.
64
No ma'am. This is something that at one time was condemned vigorously by our government. These were not soldiers, these were mercenaries. The term used to hold a stigma to it. They took a civilian job that would put them in the position to kill people. They swore no oath to defend the constitution, as I and many others did when we enlisted or were drafted into the armed forces. The real injustice is that their CEO was not in the dock with them.
15
For those of you who are ranting about guns for hire and errors in judgment of the Blackwater troops, how much time did Bob Kerrey spend in prison for his slaughter at My Lai?
1
I've never heard of Bob Kerry in connection with the Mai Lai massacre. Lieutenant William Calley Jr., was a platoon leader and the only one convicted tho others were charged
16
Bob Kerrey? I think you meant William Calley.
19
For those of you who are ranting about the injustice of trying and convincing folks for murder in cold blood, get a grip. It's an age old story, they did it, and they deserve their punishment. Over and out.
11
as others have pointed out, the commanders and controllers of these guys are living and thriving across the country.
they should be in the dock like other perpetrators and enablers of atrocities before them.
they should be in the dock like other perpetrators and enablers of atrocities before them.
50
This would not have happened if Obama had not rid the Justice Dept. of Cheney's underlings. They should have gotten life.
10
Finally. This is why we have no credibility in the middle east. The defendants and their families and supporters do not value the lives of any race except whites. Another reason it's open season on arabs in the middle east and blacks in america.
40
I think these guy belong in jail for a really really long time along with Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld and others. But you have to get a grip. Arabs are killing Arabs at a amazing clip in the ME over sectarian differences.
6
@Justice Holmes: That has absolutely no bearing at all on what we, as Americans, do in the Middle East. Please let's not do this "Well they're doing it, too" nonsense.
The Blackwater guards' callous disregard for human life was highly unacceptable. They had harboured deep hostility toward anyone, who stood in their way. The manager even threatened to kill a State Department investigator and American Embassy officials in Baghdad sided with Blackwater rather than the State Department officials investigating the case.
The Blackwater guys in Iraq behaved like a bunch of Afghan warlords. They boasted of firing their weapons indiscriminately and didn't hesitate to open fire just to clear the way for a US convoy.
The Blackwater guys in Iraq behaved like a bunch of Afghan warlords. They boasted of firing their weapons indiscriminately and didn't hesitate to open fire just to clear the way for a US convoy.
63
Thank you for your well-stated truth and international observation of the facts.
10
Those who died were Iraqis. They were Sunnis or Shiites and the Backwater guns for hire wouldn't have known or cared either way.
Those who died had dark skins. They were men, and women and children. But to the Backwater thugs they were not human beings.
The convicted killers were 'patriotic, small-town men who deeply loved their families and their country.' Even now, they don't acknowledge their guilt. Just like those who murdered up to 300 or more blacks in Tulsa in 1921 - but got away with it. Small town America. White America. The Land of the Free.
Those who died had dark skins. They were men, and women and children. But to the Backwater thugs they were not human beings.
The convicted killers were 'patriotic, small-town men who deeply loved their families and their country.' Even now, they don't acknowledge their guilt. Just like those who murdered up to 300 or more blacks in Tulsa in 1921 - but got away with it. Small town America. White America. The Land of the Free.
53
This was not a justice. This was deemed a long-fought "diplomatic victory" for the United States.
Thank you, Mr. Obama.
Thank you, Mr. Obama.
4
I hear your frustration but there are plenty of white people who are appalled by this and are actively trying to change it. All lives Matter. Unfortunately These Blackwater mercenaries don't see it that way they were cowboys with guns and they thought they were bullet proof. I am glad they weren't!
20
Tom wants to excuse all conduct in military conflict, whether they are soldiers or hired mercs, as long as they're Americans.
To Tom, those folks were in the wrong place at the wrong time and probably did something to make these nice young men angry, so, that's their problem.
What has happened here, Tom, is not a "diplomatic victory," but rather a strong message sent to those who believe they act with impunity in their life long fantasy to be Rambo.
And Tom, real patriots would never have behaved that way. Those people are a disgrace, and you're just a angry partisan. Perhaps in the future, hired killers will think twice before killing innocents. Or perhaps not. But at least these particular killers won't have the opportunity again. Sorry about that.
To Tom, those folks were in the wrong place at the wrong time and probably did something to make these nice young men angry, so, that's their problem.
What has happened here, Tom, is not a "diplomatic victory," but rather a strong message sent to those who believe they act with impunity in their life long fantasy to be Rambo.
And Tom, real patriots would never have behaved that way. Those people are a disgrace, and you're just a angry partisan. Perhaps in the future, hired killers will think twice before killing innocents. Or perhaps not. But at least these particular killers won't have the opportunity again. Sorry about that.
4
Great news justice the guilty
12
This might not of happened had our government not made a conscious choice to avoid the political consequences of the Iraq War by hiring mercenaries to handle rear echelon jobs that previously were the sole province of service members of the Armed Forces. What few troops we had were concentrated in the hot zones that were always contested by extremist groups of various stripes, or local warlords. Contract warriors could not be sent there for reasons of political legitimacy. No similar considerations governed hired mercenaries to handle what were supposed to be routine security details in Iraqi cities that were presumptively pacified, or at least ostensibly under the Iraqi government's control. We saw how that worked out, with armed gangs of contractors bullying and abusing Iraqis, or anyone else who cross their paths. These men were not under military control or subject to military discipline; the worst they could expect would have been to have their employment terminated. And if that happened, bad actors could always re-up for lucrative assignments elsewhere in the world, because that was what they were paid to do. This was a presumptively illegitimate use of American national power. The only way around it would have been to send more American troops, and conscription. By definition, a volunteer military force means hiring people who get off on the chaos and brutality of war, and mercenaries are often the worst of the lot. This tragic loss of life was entirely predictable.
59
In addition to the motives you describe, there was the Republican raison d'être: the desire to show how much better the private sector could do the job, and to give extremely lucrative contracts to their buddies and contributors. Corruption, pure and simple.
1
Very sad to see that the defendants, their families an a large audience still refuse to realize the consequences of the Blackwater contractors' actions, and the atrocity they committed. Why is it so easy to understand when a "foreigner" commits this type of crime (I refer to Tzarnaev and Boston), but so difficult when the perpetrator is one of "us"? Thank god for the judge!
55
I assume your question is rhetorical. If not, the answer is simple: The "foreigner" does not fit the bigot's definition of valuable human life: white, Christian, English speaking. All others just don't belong and should shut up.
1
When I was in Iraq in 2003 serving at a Forward Operating Base about 40 miles south of Baghdad, it was like the wild west. We were shot at randomly nearly every day. So it kind of gets to you, you feel powerless because the shooters blend in so well that you have no idea of who is shooting and where they are. Tough to keep your composure. We had a lieutenant that ordered his gunner to shoot at a vehicle, the driver was killed. Agents from the Army Criminal Investigation Division investigated the shooting and our Lt was relieved. That's the difference right there, we had our superiors who were watching us and would hold us accountable.
When the four American contractors were brutally killed in Fallujah, the Army had declared the roads closed because of the violent protests, yet they were sent out by their employer. Because they didn't get paid if the mission was not done. If those had been four privates that suffered the same fate you could bet your last nickel that someone in their chain of command would have been charged in their deaths.
Sure we carried cards with the rules of engagement printed on them defining when you could and could not shoot, what you could and could not shoot at. However, the last line on the card clearly said: "Nothing in these rules prohbits you from defending yourself or defending others."
When the four American contractors were brutally killed in Fallujah, the Army had declared the roads closed because of the violent protests, yet they were sent out by their employer. Because they didn't get paid if the mission was not done. If those had been four privates that suffered the same fate you could bet your last nickel that someone in their chain of command would have been charged in their deaths.
Sure we carried cards with the rules of engagement printed on them defining when you could and could not shoot, what you could and could not shoot at. However, the last line on the card clearly said: "Nothing in these rules prohbits you from defending yourself or defending others."
12
Many do not understand, in the fog of war there is little time to assess whether the one choice of your two choices is correct. This was not like cops on steroids. This was a war zone every day, and every hour of the day.
1
I don't think mercenaries should have been in Iraq.
8
I was not on that jury and I did not hear the testimony of the witnesses nor review the physical evidence. But I can say that in the fog of war that permeated Iraq throughout the U.S. presence, the guards claims that they honestly believed that they were being fired upon sounds highly plausibly, even if some of their colleagues believed they were mistaken. It is worth remembering that in 1991 Gulf War more Americans were killed by their comrades than by Iraqis.
7
Pardons on 5.. 4.. 3..
Blackwater was/is a mercenary operation utilized by the US government.
The idea they will not be extended pardons and a thousand forgivenesses, is naive.
These are either token convictions or will not stand. I am fairly sure that was in the contract.
Blackwater was/is a mercenary operation utilized by the US government.
The idea they will not be extended pardons and a thousand forgivenesses, is naive.
These are either token convictions or will not stand. I am fairly sure that was in the contract.
9
I cannot agree with the "machine gun" mandatory minimum sentencing. Soldiers and security contractors don't choose to use these automatic assault rifles (call them what they are...machine guns were more than "just" automatics in my day) in a war zone. The law was meant for urban (re:mostly black and minority) crack dealers to force them to dial back the crazy shootouts that were scaring the public.
So that is specious reasoning applied to the case to jack up the sentences. And one soldier gets a murder charge. But only because prosecutors missed a filing deadline so....voila...."you get a murder charge" with life as a possibility? Is this a bad gameshow?
These guys are soldiers (private). It's a war. People die in wars, America. They bring out the worst in everyone so don't do war unless you want to kill.
Let the soldiers go. They were stupid, performed badly, but humanly.
The problem is pretending war can be clean. It isn't, America so quit acting like its a movie or tv drama. Stay out of the kitchen if you can't stand the heat.
(RA 72-74)
So that is specious reasoning applied to the case to jack up the sentences. And one soldier gets a murder charge. But only because prosecutors missed a filing deadline so....voila...."you get a murder charge" with life as a possibility? Is this a bad gameshow?
These guys are soldiers (private). It's a war. People die in wars, America. They bring out the worst in everyone so don't do war unless you want to kill.
Let the soldiers go. They were stupid, performed badly, but humanly.
The problem is pretending war can be clean. It isn't, America so quit acting like its a movie or tv drama. Stay out of the kitchen if you can't stand the heat.
(RA 72-74)
6
So the rules of engagement are just a meaningless farce? War isn't always black and white, but shooting wildly at unarmed civilians is.
9
How about stay out of countries you don't belong in?
6
Lest anyone think Blackwater has gone away. It hasn't. It just changed its name to Academi and under that name is reported to be the second largest federal contractor. This is clear evidence that no one in government really cares what these people do.
Did you know that contractors get special immunity so that if anyone gets hurt or killed as a result of their actions or negligence they are off scot free. Many federal contractors in the security and war area don't bother to pay their taxes because they know it won't matter.
The Congress is witless and spineless and not a little corrupt. Federal contractors like Academi (Blackwater) are big contributors especially to the war mongers. War is big business and the choice to go to war doesn't seem to have much to do with foreign policy or US interests it seems to have more to do with male strutting and money making.
These men should be joined in prison by Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld.
Did you know that contractors get special immunity so that if anyone gets hurt or killed as a result of their actions or negligence they are off scot free. Many federal contractors in the security and war area don't bother to pay their taxes because they know it won't matter.
The Congress is witless and spineless and not a little corrupt. Federal contractors like Academi (Blackwater) are big contributors especially to the war mongers. War is big business and the choice to go to war doesn't seem to have much to do with foreign policy or US interests it seems to have more to do with male strutting and money making.
These men should be joined in prison by Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld.
44
Hold the US accountable for this atrocity. Our government created a " market" for these "services". US taxpayers paid for these mercenary firms which means we are all collectively guilty of these crimes.
Until we investigate the crimes committed by Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, etc., this nation will never rest easy.
Mike Barnacle of the Boston Globe said yesterday that Iraq is in the "rear view mirror" and that we are a nation looking forward. I would advise Mr. Barnacle to read our Constitution and find me the "rear view mirror" clause!
These sentences are a small first step in the right direction, the long journey to resurrect our Constitution from the grave.
Until we investigate the crimes committed by Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, etc., this nation will never rest easy.
Mike Barnacle of the Boston Globe said yesterday that Iraq is in the "rear view mirror" and that we are a nation looking forward. I would advise Mr. Barnacle to read our Constitution and find me the "rear view mirror" clause!
These sentences are a small first step in the right direction, the long journey to resurrect our Constitution from the grave.
23
Atrocities do tend to happen more often when you outsource the war to mercenaries.
19
So we have four private contractors sentenced to long prison terms "in what prosecutors called a wartime atrocity". However "wartime atrocities" are for the most part committed by armed forces, and not civilians working as contractors.
So far from there being a sense of justice in this, its the exact opposite. That those in the armed forces killed, and were free to kill whoever they pleased without having to answer to anybody. And those in the armed forces killed civilians for the same reason that these contractors did, because "they felt threatened".
It is therefore a cheap sort of justice to go after those few who could be isolated for prosecution in the civilian branches of justice, and to leave untouched and univestigated the thousands of identical killings committed by the armed forces throughout the duration of the Iraqi war.
There is an HBO documentary called Generation Kill, which is all based on footage of a single Marine platoon. Anyone who watches it will see the title "Generation Kill" is well earned by those Marines. The established ground rules to "light em up" is "they appear to be a threat", meaning there is no clear indication to the contrary.
The only mistake of the contractors, who all learned the job while in uniform, was that they didn't realize that the way they acted when they were in the army was actually criminal and so as civilians they would be subject to prosecution.
So far from there being a sense of justice in this, its the exact opposite. That those in the armed forces killed, and were free to kill whoever they pleased without having to answer to anybody. And those in the armed forces killed civilians for the same reason that these contractors did, because "they felt threatened".
It is therefore a cheap sort of justice to go after those few who could be isolated for prosecution in the civilian branches of justice, and to leave untouched and univestigated the thousands of identical killings committed by the armed forces throughout the duration of the Iraqi war.
There is an HBO documentary called Generation Kill, which is all based on footage of a single Marine platoon. Anyone who watches it will see the title "Generation Kill" is well earned by those Marines. The established ground rules to "light em up" is "they appear to be a threat", meaning there is no clear indication to the contrary.
The only mistake of the contractors, who all learned the job while in uniform, was that they didn't realize that the way they acted when they were in the army was actually criminal and so as civilians they would be subject to prosecution.
6
We outsource everything, including our morality.
14
War crimes and yet the ones who started it all and who established this mercenary, "private" army, walk and talk as free men, paint portraits of dogs and of themselves, go on TV and criticize the current President, grind their teeth in bitter hatred at those who are repulsed by their evil deeds and who nurse an artificial heart that will apparently never stop beating in the hole where a real heart should be.
23
Welcome to reality.
You want the dream version ? Look at " American Sniper.
You want the ugly truth ? Look at this.
US Go Home : you have lost your moral compass, you have lost our respect, and you should wonder why is it that being an american is reason enough to become target practice for all the lunatics in this world.
You, as a People, should ask if maybe your foreign policies and the way you use your power ( CIA - Iran 1956 / WMD - Irak etc... ) have unintended consequences.
Why is it that America has gone from being heroes in 1945 to bullies in 2015 ?
Ike was right.
You want the dream version ? Look at " American Sniper.
You want the ugly truth ? Look at this.
US Go Home : you have lost your moral compass, you have lost our respect, and you should wonder why is it that being an american is reason enough to become target practice for all the lunatics in this world.
You, as a People, should ask if maybe your foreign policies and the way you use your power ( CIA - Iran 1956 / WMD - Irak etc... ) have unintended consequences.
Why is it that America has gone from being heroes in 1945 to bullies in 2015 ?
Ike was right.
21
No free nation can control people on an individual level, but I think these convictions show that no, we don't think it's okay to shoot unarmed civilians. That part of your comment would have made more sense had they been acquitted.
Just scapegoats, like the low level grunts convicted over the Abu Ghraib human rights violations. Pure theater.
6
And Rand Paul fatuously calls for an additional $190B for the Defense Department!
13
Well, You know, things happen...
And Ron Paul fatuously calls for $190Billion additional spending for the Defense Department. Sigh.
6
"The case raised many new legal issues, including whether State Department contractors are covered by American criminal law when operating overseas." Thanks, to Judge Lamberth, we have a sane answer.
15
I doubt these four will serve substantial amount of jail time.
Either a Republican president will pardon them or the case will be appealed to the Supreme Court and the 5 conservative justices will dredge up some rationale to overturn these convictions.
To get perspective recall what happened with the Iran-Contra defendants.
I am just discussing what I think will happen not whether these four should serve long sentences.
Either a Republican president will pardon them or the case will be appealed to the Supreme Court and the 5 conservative justices will dredge up some rationale to overturn these convictions.
To get perspective recall what happened with the Iran-Contra defendants.
I am just discussing what I think will happen not whether these four should serve long sentences.
24
Judge Lambreth is a Texan, a former Captain in the U.S. Army, and a Reagan appointee. You don't get much more conservative than that.
4
It is hard for me to blame these four when those who bought (with taxpayer money) and paid (to themselves) for this war are off living comfortably in their suburban fortresses somewhere in America.
19
And, do not forget, the same rightwing zealots, eager to get America into this endless, evil war are now advisers to Jeb Bush. This cabal of military-industrial salesmen, who use these wars to demonstrate the latest weaponry to their next customers will be right back in power if things go badly in the 2016 elections.
Please, do not forget the names of these criminals: Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Libbey, and their many twisted brothers in arms. Will the media do its job and make their history's known?
Please, do not forget the names of these criminals: Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Libbey, and their many twisted brothers in arms. Will the media do its job and make their history's known?
93
Errrr....these agents of death aren't just advising Bush, they are represented by Obama, the ultimate Uncle Tom, who has presided over (visible and invisible) wars on Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, Libya, Somalia and Yemen.
5
"Friends, relatives and former military ... describing them ... as patriotic, small-town men who deeply loved their families and their country."
All true. But they are also ruthless killers. Think "Sopranos".
All true. But they are also ruthless killers. Think "Sopranos".
38
Obama's Blackwater is called "Triple Canopy" and their answer to having their PSDs arrested for War Crimes is to hire them from 3rd world nations with phony credentials so that they "disappear" when there is an incident involving the loss of civilian lives.
Moral of this story" The US Government is a terrible employer for former soldiers. Better to go private sector where ethics matter and when you do get in to a lose/lose situation they will put a crack legal team up to defend you.
There are plenty of situations where badguys embedded themselves in large groups of civilians but you plan for that and when faced with the choice between firing on a large mixed crowd or evacuating hastily the choice is clear.
Being shot at is just part of the job.
Moral of this story" The US Government is a terrible employer for former soldiers. Better to go private sector where ethics matter and when you do get in to a lose/lose situation they will put a crack legal team up to defend you.
There are plenty of situations where badguys embedded themselves in large groups of civilians but you plan for that and when faced with the choice between firing on a large mixed crowd or evacuating hastily the choice is clear.
Being shot at is just part of the job.
4
RE "Being shot at is just part of the job."
For innocents what job is that?
For innocents what job is that?
4
I KNEW it was Obama's; I just wasn't simple-minded enough to figure out how.
Michael, if you think the private sector (in this context, yes indeed think Blackwater, Halliburton KBR, Parsons, and the other war profiteers who got fat off this war) is any more ethical than the government, I have lots of shiny bridges to sell you, cheap.
Agree with most of the rest, although Triple Canopy did quite well under Bush as well as Obama. They just stepped in to pick up the slack after Blackwater was shown the door.
Agree with most of the rest, although Triple Canopy did quite well under Bush as well as Obama. They just stepped in to pick up the slack after Blackwater was shown the door.
This is one story you won't hear on Fox News.
34
Oh yes you will. You can see it parroted above in Michael's post.
Don't bet on it. It will be another cry by the right to elect a Republican president so that we can get these "activist judges" off the bench. They'll never miss an opportunity to drape themselves in the flag in the name of "patriotism."
2
You may hear it on Fox News as another example of Obama's runaway power.
2
Privatization. Mercenaries. Profits. That these four have zero remorse for what they did; that they hide behind their "just following orders" is a chilling reminder of the very same thing the Nazis claimed at Nuremberg. Even worse are the communities hiring these types as police in our cities, and the horrifyingly high number of police who are murdering suspects for things like broken tail lights.
This country is a mess.
This country is a mess.
62
I agree, Maw. We shouldn't even be allowing mercenaries to fight alongside our army!
1
EXCELLENT
This should help inform future employees that war is not a video game.
This should help inform future employees that war is not a video game.
28
I love the defending of murder. "they were in a war zone" "there were people who disapproved of them being there". Yeah, imagine if those soldiers were speeding down the streets of your town after they invaded the USA and were indiscriminately firing their machine guns at cars and people on the streets.
Try picturing yourself in the situations we put those people in.
Try picturing what it's like having your family targeted by contractors "let off the chain" and rampaging in your neighborhood. To have drones bombing random events around - weddings, markets, your family in a minivan, your wife taking your kids to school....
But don't worry, fellow Americans!!! This company is now training all our Police to submit all us Americans to the same "justice". You can see clips of their training results with all the cop shooting citizens videos.
Try picturing yourself in the situations we put those people in.
Try picturing what it's like having your family targeted by contractors "let off the chain" and rampaging in your neighborhood. To have drones bombing random events around - weddings, markets, your family in a minivan, your wife taking your kids to school....
But don't worry, fellow Americans!!! This company is now training all our Police to submit all us Americans to the same "justice". You can see clips of their training results with all the cop shooting citizens videos.
29
George Bush, Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, et al should have been tried also. The invasion of Iraq was so senseless and horrible. Too many renegades felt that killing and debasing Iraqis was justified since we were the almighty Americans.
36
You left out Rumsfeld, among others, but you are right. I remember shortly after Obama's first inauguration, when Obama was asked about investigating Bush, Cheney, et al. and their war-making acts, and he said that he was not going to look back, that he was only going to look forward, and thus, no, there would be no investigation. Investigating crimes always involves "looking back", so to refuse to "look back" is equivalent to countenancing crimes. The entire era is a deep, horrific stain on American integrity, (alleged) values and morality.
The apologists for these mercenaries, who conducted themselves as if beyond the reach of law and morality, are more frightening than the mercenaries themselves. These Blackwater guards failed the test of basic humanity, but at least they did so under stress, in a dangerous, hostile foreign land. Their apologists fail that same test in the safety and comfort of their homes.
25
My heart fills with hope and pride for my Country when justice is served in a court of law favoring grieving "Others."
14
The families standing there holding up pictures of their beloved murderers are truly stomach-turning and give one a real sense of what American exceptionalism means. No matter what horrors America inflicts on others, somehow we're always the innocent and abused party.
31
This happened all the time. I feel bad for these guys because they got called to the carpet in order to appease the Iraqis. Everyone else that did this sort of thing is sipping on a beer watching baseball.
7
They were "called to the carpet" because they publically murdered innocent civilians. Did other do the same but were not charged? Undoubtedly. The stories of these guys abusing Americans as well as Iraqis abound. That just means the FBI has more work to do!
10
“The United States has shown that regardless of the nationality of the victims, it values justice for all,” Mr. Martin said. “Even when that means that the American who committed the crime must serve time.” So? Should we compliment ourselves for doing what we SHOULD do. It almost sounds as if he's saying "See? We value even foreign life.", which is kind of creepy.
And I love that the lawyer for the guilty apologizes, while the guilty insist they did nothing wrong. And the judge cried? Really? How can you cry for people who, indiscriminately, slaughtered human beings?
What kind of "good young men" were these? It's the same ridiculous attitude people take about murderous cops. Slager was a good young man, but he shot s human being down. When things like that happen, you need to admit that your initial assessment was mistaken.
"Good" people don't commit heinous crimes. Were there good young men at Dachau?
And I love that the lawyer for the guilty apologizes, while the guilty insist they did nothing wrong. And the judge cried? Really? How can you cry for people who, indiscriminately, slaughtered human beings?
What kind of "good young men" were these? It's the same ridiculous attitude people take about murderous cops. Slager was a good young man, but he shot s human being down. When things like that happen, you need to admit that your initial assessment was mistaken.
"Good" people don't commit heinous crimes. Were there good young men at Dachau?
70
You don't have a clue about what it takes to be a highly paid and qualified warrior or what these young men are put up to by the US government even today in 2015.
Obama's answer is to hire a company that uses 3rd world goons with phony credentials who magically disappear when there is an incident involving the loss of civilian lives.
It is the US government's standing orders for PSDs that caused this Blackwater mess. PSDs working for private sector companies are there to protect their civilian employees and assets not "passify hostiles" and in the same situation private soldiers protecting corporate assets would have just grabbed their principals and run rather than fight with terrorists shooting from a crowd of civilians thereby limiting the loss of civilian lives.
Every single unethical practice private military contractors were put up to by the US government is still occurring today but they have created schemes for protecting the US Government and it's contractors from embarrassment. Civilian lives are still being lost.
Obama's answer is to hire a company that uses 3rd world goons with phony credentials who magically disappear when there is an incident involving the loss of civilian lives.
It is the US government's standing orders for PSDs that caused this Blackwater mess. PSDs working for private sector companies are there to protect their civilian employees and assets not "passify hostiles" and in the same situation private soldiers protecting corporate assets would have just grabbed their principals and run rather than fight with terrorists shooting from a crowd of civilians thereby limiting the loss of civilian lives.
Every single unethical practice private military contractors were put up to by the US government is still occurring today but they have created schemes for protecting the US Government and it's contractors from embarrassment. Civilian lives are still being lost.
5
These men were convicted for murder in 2007, under the Bush-Cheney Administration.
5
Gosh, a masterly job of misdirection. Wave Obama's name around, never mind that he didn't have a thing to do with this.
What about mentioning Cheney, Bush, Bremer, Wolfowitz and so on? Aren't they the ones who went into Iraq and hired these companies? Or is that too much to ask?
And what does "passify[sic] hostiles" mean?
What about mentioning Cheney, Bush, Bremer, Wolfowitz and so on? Aren't they the ones who went into Iraq and hired these companies? Or is that too much to ask?
And what does "passify[sic] hostiles" mean?
1
Let's just hope the sentences stick. They can't bring the innocent dead back to life - that would be the only true justice, so this will have to do.
While I put the majority of the blame squarely on the shoulders of the jokers that lead us into this fiasco, and who collaborated with privateers like Blackwater to move taxpayer money into the coffers of these scam companies and create these opportunities for chaos, there is no question these cowboys acted without honor, and with malice, or worse, complete indifference. And then not having the honor to own up to their actions - not a hint of esprit de corps to be found. There should be no place for mercenaries in the U.S. If a politician wants an army, then raise it if you dare and face the consequences, but don't backdoor it through privatizing war.
While I put the majority of the blame squarely on the shoulders of the jokers that lead us into this fiasco, and who collaborated with privateers like Blackwater to move taxpayer money into the coffers of these scam companies and create these opportunities for chaos, there is no question these cowboys acted without honor, and with malice, or worse, complete indifference. And then not having the honor to own up to their actions - not a hint of esprit de corps to be found. There should be no place for mercenaries in the U.S. If a politician wants an army, then raise it if you dare and face the consequences, but don't backdoor it through privatizing war.
45
Oh yes, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and crew made Blackwater founder, Erik Prince, a billionaire. Halliburton made almost 40 billion, and I bet Dick Cheney got a piece of that action.
These guys are out there defending the indefensible, and promoting another war in the Middle East. Being a war profiteer used to be looked down on. Now it's seen as just good business.
When we go to war, it can't be done with mercenaries who get paid a lot more than our soldiers and are answerable to no one. We see what happened and it will happen again.
These guys are out there defending the indefensible, and promoting another war in the Middle East. Being a war profiteer used to be looked down on. Now it's seen as just good business.
When we go to war, it can't be done with mercenaries who get paid a lot more than our soldiers and are answerable to no one. We see what happened and it will happen again.
46
Right you are! Americans are so ignorant of our history! Look up the most decorated Marine in the nation's history, General Smedley Butler. Read what a real hero had to say about war profiteers and corporations pushing America into war. Read what Gen. Dwight Eisenhower had to say about the military-industrial
complex 60 years ago, and look at where we are now. Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz wouldn't be fit to polish his shoes. They, simply are traitors to America.
complex 60 years ago, and look at where we are now. Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz wouldn't be fit to polish his shoes. They, simply are traitors to America.
19
I agree except for the assumption that our soldiers feel answerable, are more honorable, and don't commit atrocities. My Lai is just one.
This is just a sad example of the arrogance that started at the top - the president and vice-president and their advisors and permeated the entire Iraq War enterprise. This is no excuse for the behavior of these men. But as certainly as they pulled the triggers on their weapons and slaughtered civilian men, women and children with callous disregard, people far above them pulled their own triggers and fired lies and deceit at the American people and the world.
For those who sympathize with these men and those higher-ups in Blackwater and the US government and military who will never be put on trial, just ask yourself how you would react if it was your country that was torn apart and your people slaughtered by an invading foreign megapower that was so pathetically ill-equipped with wisdom and humanity.
For those who sympathize with these men and those higher-ups in Blackwater and the US government and military who will never be put on trial, just ask yourself how you would react if it was your country that was torn apart and your people slaughtered by an invading foreign megapower that was so pathetically ill-equipped with wisdom and humanity.
50
Where are the bosses of these security guards? Where is Mr. Prince, if I have the correct name of Blackwater's founder? Where are the members of the administration who wound him up with government contracts and set him loose in Iraq? Why aren't those people being made responsible for the atrocities that followed their long planned and well orchestrated assault on sovereign nations who, as it turned out, did us no harm.
f there is any individual responsibility, these fellows who have just been sentenced earned their removal from society. But they are grade school kids with pea shooters compered to the damage done by their boss's bosses. Who set the tone? Who paid for and directed the shock and awe that killed, maimed and displaced hundreds of thousands of our fellow human beings? How is it they evade responsibility for hiring and directing and outing a CIA agent? How is it the whistle blowers like never before are the ones in jail?
f there is any individual responsibility, these fellows who have just been sentenced earned their removal from society. But they are grade school kids with pea shooters compered to the damage done by their boss's bosses. Who set the tone? Who paid for and directed the shock and awe that killed, maimed and displaced hundreds of thousands of our fellow human beings? How is it they evade responsibility for hiring and directing and outing a CIA agent? How is it the whistle blowers like never before are the ones in jail?
34
This is an extremely interesting article, from 2010, with Erik Prince in Vanity Fair. Again, scapegoats upon scapegoats leading where? To those who apparently will never be indicted for anything. Oh how we miss Christopher Hitchens. He would have called out the liars and con-artists and profiteers and dissemblers:
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2010/01/blackwater-201001
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2010/01/blackwater-201001
Worse than the fact these guys murdered civilians is that they and many others defend their right to commit murder with the excuse that 'they were serving their country'. Murderers are murderers. Just because you are employed by the US Government does not give you a license to kill women and kids. If I were the father of one of these guys, I wouldn't be upset at the sentence. I would be ashamed and heartbroken that he had descended to the level of being a mass murderer.
28
Their defense is that they were being fired upon and returned fire.
If a police officer received fire (or thought he did) in a Walmart parking lot in Omaha, NE, and sprayed the parking lot with gunfire killing moms with kids, would we give him a pass?
Just imagine if this atrocity happened on American soil to a bunch of white suburban kids - would we be talking about a slap on the wrist or the death penalty for wanton killing by four unrepentant men with all their faculties intact?
Goes to show the lives of Iraqi civilians count not for a hill of beans in the eyes of American justice, especially when you get the trial judge incredulously saying these we "good" boys that simply did bad things.
And you wonder why much of the world, especially the Arab world, are well justified in distrusting and hating America.
Goes to show the lives of Iraqi civilians count not for a hill of beans in the eyes of American justice, especially when you get the trial judge incredulously saying these we "good" boys that simply did bad things.
And you wonder why much of the world, especially the Arab world, are well justified in distrusting and hating America.
22
Mikenth,
Where do we draw the line between the guilty killers & the ones that hired them. In our constitutional government the people try them in the voting booth.Unlike, the tyrants that we are continually combatting, we send the guilty into the dust bins of History which is worst than a life sentence or hanging.
Where do we draw the line between the guilty killers & the ones that hired them. In our constitutional government the people try them in the voting booth.Unlike, the tyrants that we are continually combatting, we send the guilty into the dust bins of History which is worst than a life sentence or hanging.
The verdict and sentences are to quote Woody Allen--"A Travesty of a Mockery of a Sham".
Under intense stress and profoundly upsetting circumstances a group of young ill-trained security guards panicked and unfortunately committed manslaughter.
Yes, the Blackwater Security Team overstepped their bounds and multiple innocent civilians died as a result. But, the sentences are excessive relative to the degree of culpability.
These Blackwater Security Guards are honorable and patriotic Americans who are being "Lynched" in a high tech fashion as they are scapegoated to appease the pacifists.
Under intense stress and profoundly upsetting circumstances a group of young ill-trained security guards panicked and unfortunately committed manslaughter.
Yes, the Blackwater Security Team overstepped their bounds and multiple innocent civilians died as a result. But, the sentences are excessive relative to the degree of culpability.
These Blackwater Security Guards are honorable and patriotic Americans who are being "Lynched" in a high tech fashion as they are scapegoated to appease the pacifists.
8
We'll see if you feel the same way when a group of "ill-trained security guards" (making 1000 bucks a day) "accidentally" massacres your entire family.
32
I was over there in Iraq with Blackwater and other security companies that had similar duties. I was in the Air Force. I did not worked for them but I worked with them. I did similar security for the Air Force and many times we would assist each other. I tell you what these men did to the people of Iraq was a complete travesty and inhumane. How can people come from a God fearing nation and kill without pity or mercy. To them is was a sport and they bragged about it. I am speaking from first hand experience. These contract security companies hired killers and gave them guns without oversight. Today I still think about the things they did. What's worse is everyone knew it. The sad thing is these are the same type of people policing our streets today. If these men came clean with their families and explained to them all they did, I do not think some of the families would support them.
49
Thank you for saying that, and thank you for your service.
1
You are right, Ted. I saw an interview a few years ago with another so-called "security contractor." The guys were working for "Custer's Battles" company and when they saw what happened to Iraqis by these other mercenaries, they quit! They said they would have no part in that. It made them sick!
I saw accident prone GI's in Vietnam throw hand grenades onto a runway so everybody had an excuse to rake the perimeter with machine gun fire. There were villages out there well within range. Didn't the whole thing start with an explosion of unknown source?
7
And not one of them apologized or admitted wrongdoing. I am against the death penalty, but I could be coerced into making an exception for these four American terrorists.
17
They should have just made the standard statement that the police make after they kill "I feared for my life and the safety of others". Works just about every time for them.
7
Justice is for the little people.
Just ask Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld.
Just ask Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld.
19
If we don't torture the US perpetrators of these horrible crimes, we are saying that torture is only for Arabs. What could possibly be more racist than that?
4
Hiring mercenaries to fight wars.....people who are motivated by money and have their own code of conduct is asking for all that you get.
13
Ex-American heroes sentenced to American doubts. Stay tuned for bulletins on money and elections.
These men were not heroes. I cannot fathom what you are trying to say.
4
When a for profit businesses conducts operations that can involved shootings and killings in a foreign country who are paid to perform their business by the United States, they are going to be seen as agents of the United States Government and our country will be considered responsible when they do a lot of harm to people who live in those countries. Blackwater and the other contractors considered themselves patriots who were serving this country but no government oversight was even attempted to assure that they really did serve this country. These companies acted according to their own interests without any regard for how their actions affected the overall situation and they did a lot of damage as a result. This way of handling it came right down from the top of the Administration and from civilian administrators in the government.
Our government is as responsible as Blackwater for placing these guys where they were when this happened and let them think that they could just shoot up a public street without regard for innocent bystanders. It was not the military who let them run roughshod over the people in Iraq, it was civilian administrators set the policies and gave Blackwater to act as they pleased in accomplishing their missions without any oversight that meant anything.
Our government is as responsible as Blackwater for placing these guys where they were when this happened and let them think that they could just shoot up a public street without regard for innocent bystanders. It was not the military who let them run roughshod over the people in Iraq, it was civilian administrators set the policies and gave Blackwater to act as they pleased in accomplishing their missions without any oversight that meant anything.
13
Heckuva job, Bremer and Blackwater.
On Blackwater in Iraq: “These guys run loose in this country and do stupid stuff, there’s no authority over them.” Brigadier Gen. Karl Horst, in 2005
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/23/weekinreview/23burns.html?pagewanted=2
An earlier Times report mentioned that Blackwater Guards made as much as $1000 a day, a small fraction of what an American soldier was paid. Needless to say, this was taxpayer money, funneled through Blackwater.
Nothing will bring back their family members, but the families of the victims should be able to sue Blackwater.
On Blackwater in Iraq: “These guys run loose in this country and do stupid stuff, there’s no authority over them.” Brigadier Gen. Karl Horst, in 2005
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/23/weekinreview/23burns.html?pagewanted=2
An earlier Times report mentioned that Blackwater Guards made as much as $1000 a day, a small fraction of what an American soldier was paid. Needless to say, this was taxpayer money, funneled through Blackwater.
Nothing will bring back their family members, but the families of the victims should be able to sue Blackwater.
26
Amazing how thoroughly Bremer screwed things up. How did this man get the job?
7
Bremer's explanation for disbanding the Iraqi Army was as follows:
1. The Iraqi Army had disbanded.
2. It wasn't his decision.
3. It was the right decision.
These are all self-serving attempts to evade responsibility, but they miss the point.
What's important is that you cannot suddenly throw a large number of soldiers onto the street, without any way to support themselves or their families; and then be surprised when they respond with their primary skill, which is to use weapons.
1. The Iraqi Army had disbanded.
2. It wasn't his decision.
3. It was the right decision.
These are all self-serving attempts to evade responsibility, but they miss the point.
What's important is that you cannot suddenly throw a large number of soldiers onto the street, without any way to support themselves or their families; and then be surprised when they respond with their primary skill, which is to use weapons.
What a travesty to all 4 of these guys. The justice system failed them miserably. All for the sake of politics. For starters:
1. One cannot take the word of any Iraqi citizen in a war torn country which hates any American with a passion.
2. Any and all evidence gathered on scene had already been heavily tampered with or removed by the time anyone from the Justice department arrived.
1. One cannot take the word of any Iraqi citizen in a war torn country which hates any American with a passion.
2. Any and all evidence gathered on scene had already been heavily tampered with or removed by the time anyone from the Justice department arrived.
6
How about the testimony of other Blackwater guards against the accused? Are we to dismiss that as well?
I'm not sure if your point of view qualifies as a 'travesty', but it sure is scary...
I'm not sure if your point of view qualifies as a 'travesty', but it sure is scary...
12
1. Any more than we can take the word of the officials who put is there in the first place? And if they "hate America with a passion," doesn't that fly in the face of Cheney's claim that we'd be "greeted as liberators?"
2. Likely tampered with or removed by the guards themselves or their stooges to cover up their liability. Are you saying the dead kids weren't shot with US - issued weapons? And they had their own vehicles - where were the bullet holes if they were being attacked?
But I suppose there's no convincing those whose minds are made up.
2. Likely tampered with or removed by the guards themselves or their stooges to cover up their liability. Are you saying the dead kids weren't shot with US - issued weapons? And they had their own vehicles - where were the bullet holes if they were being attacked?
But I suppose there's no convincing those whose minds are made up.
7
How do you factor the testimony from other Blackwater employees? Did they also "hate any American with a passion"? As for the evidence, is it "any" or "all" or both, and what specifically was removed from the scene, and by who? How did you know that it was removed? If this was a politically motivated trial, who was the winner, and who was the loser?
Whatever you think of the legality of the war and the actions of ordinary troops, we don't get to send civilians overseas and give them carte blanche for murdering foreign nationals. Last question: how would you react if 4 Iraqi civilians rolled through downtown Des Moines and opened fire on the public? Would you call that a justifiable act of war, or would you call it terrorism?
Whatever you think of the legality of the war and the actions of ordinary troops, we don't get to send civilians overseas and give them carte blanche for murdering foreign nationals. Last question: how would you react if 4 Iraqi civilians rolled through downtown Des Moines and opened fire on the public? Would you call that a justifiable act of war, or would you call it terrorism?
17
I applaud the prosecutors for sticking with the case and serving up a modicum of justice to the families of those murdered.
31
The War in Iraq has brought calamity for all involved
23
Ironically, I wish that were true. If it were, we'd have a reasonable hope of avoiding any similar tragedy in the future. Alas, it was anything but a calamity for the central criminals involved, who became spectacularly wealthy from the suffering and destruction unleashed in Iraq.
Why won't the NY Times do a DETAILED story on the fortunes of those who profited from the Iraq war? Isn't that slightly more important than a 19,000 word essay on Kanye West?
Why won't the NY Times do a DETAILED story on the fortunes of those who profited from the Iraq war? Isn't that slightly more important than a 19,000 word essay on Kanye West?
19
I sent a comment here earlier today, saying I wished the N.Y. Times would do an expose on Erick Prince the founder of Blackwater as well as his father who is rumored to be connected to James Dobson of Focus on the Family , but my comment was not printed. This one may not be either.
I'm waiting for Rachel Maddow to do a full background story. No fear, she will connect all the dots for those of us who care about the far right's involvement with mercenaries.
I'm waiting for Rachel Maddow to do a full background story. No fear, she will connect all the dots for those of us who care about the far right's involvement with mercenaries.
6
For Blackwater, this is a minor hiccup. Call it the (low) cost of doing business. Meanwhile, their reign of death and destruction all over the world continues, financed by many currently active contracts with the US government.
26
I think the four guards really believe they did nothing wrong. Yes they expressed remorse for the loss of life but never really apologized. So I can't help wondering who or whom was responsible for ensuring these guys understood the rules of engagement and would follow it.
Someone put the idea in their heads that it was OK to fire into a crowd of citizens at the slightest provocation. Sadly, due to the pushback the FBI received, this will end any further investigation.
Someone put the idea in their heads that it was OK to fire into a crowd of citizens at the slightest provocation. Sadly, due to the pushback the FBI received, this will end any further investigation.
92
Its a shame these brave young men have been deserted by the civilization they fought to protect.
3
Civilization?
5
"The civilization they fought to protect". What an incredible distortion of reality. They slaughtered innocents and have shown no remorse, repentance or even simple understanding.
Michael Blackburn, you have a stunted sense or morality.
Michael Blackburn, you have a stunted sense or morality.
7
A carefully calibrated statement and more than a little extremist. Is there any behavior you would not excuse for your "civilization?" By gunning down unarmed civilians, these 4 were certainly not brave and were not acting in my name as an American or they would not have been there in the first place. What they did was not brave but depraved and full of murderous intent. The prosecution proved that beyond the shadow of doubt because the evidence was there. American justice worked and you're better off for it. Deal with that.
8
Why not death penalty for these monsters?
5
Agreed,
The decision is a disgrace, especially when it is likely three of the defendants will likely see only 15 years in jail for their premeditated murder.
The decision is a disgrace, especially when it is likely three of the defendants will likely see only 15 years in jail for their premeditated murder.
3
Isn't endless killing what got us here in the first place
Wait and see. These sentences will be thrown out 100% on appeal. The words change, but the music stays the same.
7
Dick Cheny and his connection with Haliburton is the genesis for this whole deal. This is why Bush ran the war off books, all this contracting/privatization of the war created another barrier to accountability for all the atrocities. When will Bush/Cheny be held accountable?
41
There should not be for-profit corporations performing these tasks..or the tasks Halliburton performed for their 36 billion. If our armed forces are not numerous enough, then we must reinstate the draft with NO exemptions.
21
"... we must reinstate the draft with NO exemptions."
Not even for amputees or blind people or convicted felons?
Not even for amputees or blind people or convicted felons?
One has to wonder how many times similar type of events happened in Iraq that we have not heard about. How many times did a group of armed Americans, soldiers or contractors, decide that somebody didn't look right and blew them away just to be safe? How many innocent Iraqis died because of this lame excuse for a war?
When you turn loose hordes of armed youth to police a country which most do not understand, you know you are setting up the people of that country for horror and murder. The real crime is that there was no good reason for that country to be invaded. Everybody with a brain realizes this.
If anybody thinks this verdict will make the world or the people of Iraq believe that America is a lawful country, they need to think again. People of the world know the truth: that war criminals who caused this disaster walk free in America.
America, you are a sad tattered semblance of what you claim to be.
When you turn loose hordes of armed youth to police a country which most do not understand, you know you are setting up the people of that country for horror and murder. The real crime is that there was no good reason for that country to be invaded. Everybody with a brain realizes this.
If anybody thinks this verdict will make the world or the people of Iraq believe that America is a lawful country, they need to think again. People of the world know the truth: that war criminals who caused this disaster walk free in America.
America, you are a sad tattered semblance of what you claim to be.
32
"The real crime is that there was no good reason for that country to be invaded. Everybody with a brain realizes this. "
True. But brain-bearing Americans make up less than 12% of the country. The rest now want to attack Iran. America is one giant psych ward.
True. But brain-bearing Americans make up less than 12% of the country. The rest now want to attack Iran. America is one giant psych ward.
3
These murderers were serving their masters. When will Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice be brought to justice?
36
Never.
1
What if they were American soldiers in active duty and in uniform? Would they not have even committed such violence? Or would the violence have been committed but never prosecuted?
6
There is, or is supposed to be, a chain of command and rules of engagement which were clearly was absent among for-profit bodyguards. My feeling is that if these were soldiers, the outcome would likely not have been as horrific.
2
Chelsea (formerly Bradley) Manning revealed videos of American soldiers massacring families from helicopters. None of those soldiers were charged. Only Chelsea was charged with a crime. The war criminals are let off.
Welcome to reality.
Welcome to reality.
Good riddance. My biggest comfort out of this comes with the realization that none of these four will ever be civilian law enforcement officers.
18
Law enforcement officers?
Try imagining this - three of these murderers will likely get out of jail in 15 or so years and have a cushy job waiting for them at the NRA or Fox News.
Now, does that "comfort" you?
Try imagining this - three of these murderers will likely get out of jail in 15 or so years and have a cushy job waiting for them at the NRA or Fox News.
Now, does that "comfort" you?
3
Don't count on that.
As noted below, another atrocity is that Cheney and Bush and Rumsfeld are free men and not in prison.
29
At least better late than never! This should have been an open and shut case. At least some Iraqis finally got some justice. There are so many more Iraqis that deserve justice. Well.....
9
Blackwater executives should be tried or sued for their policies that led to this massacre of unarmed civilians. It's doubtful the Blackwater guards had any training or preparation for this type of scenario to prevent a tragedy. Now, they're left holding the bag.
9
It's laughable and pathetic to ever characterize these murderers as 'good young men who served their country'. This just in- America never asked anyone to kill unarmed civilians in her name. Anyone who feels justified doing so and thinks they are protected as a military "hero" is an embarrassment to America. They all should have received life in prison.
22
One day you will be giving guys like these an early release.
This is what happens when you outsource war. Cheney, Rumsfeld and Bush were able to claim fewer American troops were involved in Iraq, while they opened the floodgates to high-priced vigilantes responsible to no American military authority. The smart ones cashed in by resigning the military and taking six-figure jobs with Prince's private army. No wonder they hate us.
33
Even the military filth who raped the 14 year old girl in Iraq and murdered her and her family will be released very soon, once the public has forgotten about it.
These monsters are NEVER kept in jail, even on the extremely rare occasions they are convicted. The Nisour Square killers are no exception. They will get off. Depend on it.
These monsters are NEVER kept in jail, even on the extremely rare occasions they are convicted. The Nisour Square killers are no exception. They will get off. Depend on it.
12
Your probably right. Look what happened to those involved in the My Lai massacre.
3
The U.S. military operates under a code of conduct. What code applied to the Blackwater freelancers? If there was none, then the people who hired them and set them loose are just as guilty as those who did the killing.
22
Yes Blackwater should have done psychological profiles on all their employees they sent over there to weed out the death angels. I agree totally.
Actually, many who joined organizations like Blackwater were motivated by monetary greed. You could make an awful lot of money working for them. In the case of military enlistees, the primary motivator appears to have been pure murderous psychosis. As horrible as the Nisour Square massacre was, it pales in comparison to atrocities routinely carried out by uniformed US troops.
These guys were and are sick.They all deserve the death penalty.Americans worship war.I'm so tired of military propaganda and this insipid idea that all soldiers are heroes.
34
Don't look for justice in this life and pray for none in the next!
1
Their sentences should be the maximum allowable. They not only killed 14 people, but they continue to defend the murders which indicates they are unrepentant and still dangerous. It's a tragedy.
21
Senseless deaths. Why?
3
Thank you President Obama for pushing this through! At least there is some justice in the land.
4
…and of course, Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, George W. Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, Elliot Abrams, Scooter Libby, John Bolton, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, David Wurmser, Karl Rove, Condi Rice, Bob Kagan, Bill Kristol, and all the other war criminal, Neo-Cons who conned the Government into the destruction of Iraq based on lies - all go free.
And, now, this same group of fascist warmongers are the leading lights pushing the US into yet another Middle East war - with Iran as the target. Over a million children have lost their lives in Iraq because of these criminals, trillions of dollars have been thrown down the drain, and we are about to wash, rinse and repeat the same miserable mistakes. These four guys from Blackwater should be held accountable - but so should the architects of this ongoing debacle, from which we have yet to extricate ourselves. Our two-tiered Justice system picks the low hanging fruit, yet leaves the rotten root of the problem untouched. If we are looking for accountability, the Iraqi 14 (and counting) should be where we start.
And, now, this same group of fascist warmongers are the leading lights pushing the US into yet another Middle East war - with Iran as the target. Over a million children have lost their lives in Iraq because of these criminals, trillions of dollars have been thrown down the drain, and we are about to wash, rinse and repeat the same miserable mistakes. These four guys from Blackwater should be held accountable - but so should the architects of this ongoing debacle, from which we have yet to extricate ourselves. Our two-tiered Justice system picks the low hanging fruit, yet leaves the rotten root of the problem untouched. If we are looking for accountability, the Iraqi 14 (and counting) should be where we start.
31
Yawn. This is the predicable outcome of a political show trial clearly designed to mollify the Iraqis. Perhaps these heroic men will receive the redress they sorely deserve in the appellate courts, where reason will hopefully take precedence over political expediency.
4
Yeah the same show put on after the My Lai massacre. Rinse and repeat.
1
Yawn? 17 innocent people die, and you...yawn? Against all military-industrial-judicial-complex odds, these unsupervised vicious killers are convicted.
And you yawn.
And you yawn.
3
On a certain level, the whole thing is preposterous. We have dozens if not hundreds of videotapes of US military and mercenaries pointing at random cars in Iraq and just shooting the occupants for sport, including women and children. This was standard operating procedure. Hundreds of GIs have testified to it. "We shot anyone we felt like. There were no rules."
3
I have to wonder how many of those videotapes you speak about are being burned at this very moment?
1
These guys were doing their jobs.
3
Wrong.
2
That's the problem, isn't it?
1
Hmmm doing their jobs? I wonder how many death angels are now applying for jobs at Blackwater upon seeing your comment.
4
These men are war criminals. But as so many others have noted in the comments, those that set the policies (Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and so many others, including media pundits who pushed the necessity of war) are the ones who should be prosecuted. My fear is that like Kissinger and his ilk, this group will slip away. Perhaps President Obama will act, it would certainly set the tone for human rights and rescuing the integrity the United States. But alas, there's an election.
13
"I wish I'd killed more of them." --Chris Kyle, who bragged about being in a contest with a fellow sniper to see who could kill more Iraqi.
The conviction of the Nisour Square murderers is justified. It is also more or less arbitrary. A true justice system would send thousands and thousands of war criminals, including generals like David Petraeus, to jail. Not four. Thousands.
The conviction of the Nisour Square murderers is justified. It is also more or less arbitrary. A true justice system would send thousands and thousands of war criminals, including generals like David Petraeus, to jail. Not four. Thousands.
22
Remember the dead victims , that's the only way to have any good come from this.
11
Sorry but we have video of troops firing on civilians and hate to see what is behind closed doors and yet no one is going to be putting them anywhere, or how about the leaders. This smells more of an escape goat with a few who may or may not have been in the right. I am skeptical that the courts even care and just went after these 5 because they where a really easy target.
You can be sure there are many video tape bon-fires burning as we comment.
The biggest atrocity is that Dick Cheney is a free man while these patsies pay the price of doing his evil bidding.
91
Patsies? They got rich by joining a criminal enterprise that promised them the opportunity to murder Arabs without consequence.
8
Make no mistake, these four are entirely guilty of the crimes for which they were charged and convicted. Cheney being guilty of war crimes does not excuse what these heathens did.
2
Yea, the similiarity between what is happening on the streets of Baghdad, Kabul and Ferguson is a bit too close for comfort. One can easily understand why they hate our guts as an occupying force in the mideast.
So today a political system that needs a scapegoat, but does not want to follow the chain of decisions from the trigger finger to Eric Prince to the agency that hired Blackwater to the Secretary of that agency - that same political system grabbed the low hanging fruit, prosecuted it and tossed it in jail.
Just like MyLai, the old guys set the policy, tone and create the culture, the young guys carry it out and the government supresses the images / reality from the citizens. Then one the curtain gets turned back, the low level players get tossed under the bus, just like Lt. William Calley.
Equal justice under the law will have meaning only when the political system musters up enough will to hunt down the dogs of war at the top of the command structure, who created this mess and the culture that allowed it.
So today a political system that needs a scapegoat, but does not want to follow the chain of decisions from the trigger finger to Eric Prince to the agency that hired Blackwater to the Secretary of that agency - that same political system grabbed the low hanging fruit, prosecuted it and tossed it in jail.
Just like MyLai, the old guys set the policy, tone and create the culture, the young guys carry it out and the government supresses the images / reality from the citizens. Then one the curtain gets turned back, the low level players get tossed under the bus, just like Lt. William Calley.
Equal justice under the law will have meaning only when the political system musters up enough will to hunt down the dogs of war at the top of the command structure, who created this mess and the culture that allowed it.
54
Calley was not tossed under the bus. Calley was guilty just as these men are. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time is not a valid defense. In terms of holding the chain of command accountable you might try blowing all the candles out on your next birthday cake.
It was a catastrophe by far. No soldier, contractor or warfighter likes to have civilian casualties on the battlefield. However, this is completely ridiculous. If it had been a bomb that killed civilians, we wouldn't be having this conversation. How many bombs have I seen dropped where unarmed civilians were splashed all over Afghanistan or Iraq, dozens. What's the difference? Obama needed a scapegoat for this media hype to this incident. This completely disgusted me as an American. America - Fail.
7
Jim, mR. Obama had nothing to do with this issue. It was an indiscriminate firing of multiple deadly rounds at innocent people. That's generally termed murder! The facts revealed that there was no attack from other quarters on these Blackwater soldiers.
3
Sorry but this has nothing to do with Obama directly this is to protect the Bush and Cheney clan and anyone else on the top.
3
Blame Obama? Oh, you misguided child of GOP kool-aid.
3
When we use flawed thinking to implement flawed means for achieving a flawed purpose, should we be surprised when all the flaws of human beings come to the surface and the results are horrendously flawed?
17
As I always say, intelligence without wisdom is criminal.
All well and good. But the real war criminals, who created this situation, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and their enablers like Addington and Yoo, are still at large.
70
Don't forget Tenet who was awarded a Presidential Medal by Bush for his work at the CIA confirming all those weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
3
Despiite this conviction for murder, plus the many other crimes which it is known to hav committed but for which it has never been prosecutged, Blackwater is still in business under another name. Is it still employed by the U.S. Government? The writer of this article should have answered that question. I'm going to email Mr. Apuzzo to ask him that question. Maybe he'll want to reply to this comment.
I'm
I'm
10
I am sure it is. One of those "private" contractors paid for entirely by the government at a much higher cost than actual government employees (in this case soldiers) and no oversight
Blackwater changed their name a while back to "Xi".......and they still contract for the US Government.
A better question to ask would be: What is the US State Dept. doing to oversee its security contractors?
As for Blackwater, it is now called Academi, and it is owned by Constellis Holdings:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academi
As for Blackwater, it is now called Academi, and it is owned by Constellis Holdings:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academi
In 2003 I thought that the Bush Cheney team were war criminals after the first civilian was killed in Iraq. That happened quickly. The incident described in this article should never have happened because we should have not been there in the first place. A recent commenter said this was acceptable because Muslims caused 9/11. People still haven't figured out that Iraq was not involved in 9/11? These kinds of comments are the perfect argument why this country needs to be skeptical the next time a person such as Dick Cheney goes on TV and tries to convince the American people that invading a foreign country will be a walk in the park. Now it's Tom Cotton telling everyone we could take care of Iran in three days. Blackwater and it's minions were up for the mission and the money and these people got caught.
23
Now that we have a front page story on American atrocities at war, will we have front page stories about the casualties of the present drone wars? With a comments section?
15
If you want to also comment about the hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis
civilians and the millions who are permanently displaced.
civilians and the millions who are permanently displaced.
Spring housecleaning in America has begun.
Every member of Congress, the US Senate, and the Bush Presidency need to be purged from office.
We need a fresh start in America. Vote everyone out who voted for War In Iraq. All the members of the US Senate are multi-millionaires and billionaires. Most of the members of Congress are multi-millionaires who voted for the privatized, illegal War In IRAQ, to profit from the spoils? And Bush/Cheney in the White House are Billionaires surrounded by billionaires.
The American people, and the Iraqi people are entitled to WAR REPARATIONS from these elected and appointed people. By anyones count the people of the United States and Iraq are owed much more than the $3 Trillion cost of the war they created out of thin air over nuclear weapons that were invented to justify the unjustifiable destruction of life for money, to satisfy greed, while the majority of the people of these two nations struggle on a pittance of the incomes these leaders receive.
The people who are not rich must distrust anyone worth more than a million dollars. If you are worth more than a million, invest in your fellow Americans who are struggling, or in Iraqi people who suffered.
Every member of Congress, the US Senate, and the Bush Presidency need to be purged from office.
We need a fresh start in America. Vote everyone out who voted for War In Iraq. All the members of the US Senate are multi-millionaires and billionaires. Most of the members of Congress are multi-millionaires who voted for the privatized, illegal War In IRAQ, to profit from the spoils? And Bush/Cheney in the White House are Billionaires surrounded by billionaires.
The American people, and the Iraqi people are entitled to WAR REPARATIONS from these elected and appointed people. By anyones count the people of the United States and Iraq are owed much more than the $3 Trillion cost of the war they created out of thin air over nuclear weapons that were invented to justify the unjustifiable destruction of life for money, to satisfy greed, while the majority of the people of these two nations struggle on a pittance of the incomes these leaders receive.
The people who are not rich must distrust anyone worth more than a million dollars. If you are worth more than a million, invest in your fellow Americans who are struggling, or in Iraqi people who suffered.
6
Yes, "these are good young men who've never been in trouble." But, in the war zone, they turned into unremorseful killers of innocent people. The long sentence verdict is deserved. It should be noted that there were many incidents, though not as horrible as this one, in Iraq and Afghanistan that will never be investigated and brought to trial.
9
Should've been given medals.
1
I don't think you can earn medals for murder sir.. This isn't "Call of Duty".
4
Medals for killing innocent civilians?
1
Uh, for shooting civilians? I was there in Baghdad when this happened, and the "fog of war" doesn't excuse this. Maybe if you'd served, you would understand that being a Marine, soldier, or security professional means you *have* to be sure of your target and that your shots are justified (even in war).
It's not like when you're playing "Halo" or "Call of Duty", which I'm betting is as close to war as you've come...
It's not like when you're playing "Halo" or "Call of Duty", which I'm betting is as close to war as you've come...
1
They look defective.. like something is very wrong with them. And so there was..!! I'd call this a good BEGINNING....
4
The real travesty was how Erik Prince, founder and owner of Blackwater, walked away clean and exceptionally wealthy. He was untouched by both parties. Unlike too big to fail, he was too inside to fail.
74
Absolutely. The Cheney and shrub administration and the Republican war machine made a number of people wealthy as suppliers of mercenaries and as war profiteers and as arms dealers. They belong in jail but it is these pawns they have offered up.
1
Yep. Him, Cheney, GWB, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz.
cheney next. please.
23
If they were "terrorists", they all be executed
1
“I am very sorry for the loss of life,” Mr. Heard said. “But I cannot say in all honesty to the court that I believe I did anything wrong.”
”The verdict is wrong,” Mr. Slatten told the judge. “You know I am innocent, sir.”
I have absolutely no doubt these men believe that. It's what you have to believe when you do the kind of work they do. It has ever been thus. As a mercenary, the rules of engagement are fluid. You justify the killing of the sworn enemy by whatever means the fog of war dictates. Your are paid to do the job that soldiers are not asked to do and you get paid very well to do it. And if anything goes wrong, the secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions.
These men signed up knowing full well what they would be asked to do. In any other geopolitical climate they would have been found not guilty. But these are not those times. Justice must not only be served but be seen to have been served.
As much as I abhor what these men have done and believe they deserve their sentences, I am angry that they are the only ones who have been targeted. This is a show piece of a trial, designed to impress and placate America's detractors. It's the worst kind of jingoistic propaganda. One minute you are the American hero for all that you do for God and country. The next they give you life in prison for the exact same thing.
That's not right.
”The verdict is wrong,” Mr. Slatten told the judge. “You know I am innocent, sir.”
I have absolutely no doubt these men believe that. It's what you have to believe when you do the kind of work they do. It has ever been thus. As a mercenary, the rules of engagement are fluid. You justify the killing of the sworn enemy by whatever means the fog of war dictates. Your are paid to do the job that soldiers are not asked to do and you get paid very well to do it. And if anything goes wrong, the secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions.
These men signed up knowing full well what they would be asked to do. In any other geopolitical climate they would have been found not guilty. But these are not those times. Justice must not only be served but be seen to have been served.
As much as I abhor what these men have done and believe they deserve their sentences, I am angry that they are the only ones who have been targeted. This is a show piece of a trial, designed to impress and placate America's detractors. It's the worst kind of jingoistic propaganda. One minute you are the American hero for all that you do for God and country. The next they give you life in prison for the exact same thing.
That's not right.
8
I decided no t to read this article because the real criminal is Dick Chaney. He is the one who should be rotting in prison as a treasonous war criminal. These men were his pawns and just followed orders. It's always the people who are not in leadership positions that get sent to prison. I am totally disgusted.
17
If only they'd been flying drones, they'd be innocent.
6
Drones need discussion but it must also come with nuanced and critical thinking not merely bumper sticker platitudes
So mercenaries get 30+ years for killing unarmed Iraqi civilians; what do police who kill unarmed American civilians get?
17
Medal and a raise.
Now that America has proved itself capable of prosecuting the hired help for the sins of generals and presidents, when can we expect an indictment of W?
12
Unfortunately Hell hasn't frozen yet.
The use of mercenaries by the American military has opened a Pandora Box impossible to be closed. Public opinion is against sending regular combat troops to fight the Islamic State in Iraq/Syria and eventually Yemen.
Blackwater and other mercenary private armies are ready to be deployed again in the Middle East. In fact, it is cheaper, cost effective, to fight ISIS using mercenaries instead of regular troops.
Blackwater and other mercenary private armies are ready to be deployed again in the Middle East. In fact, it is cheaper, cost effective, to fight ISIS using mercenaries instead of regular troops.
2
Those "private" contractors paid for entirely by the government at a much higher cost and no oversight. Cost effective? Indeed not in every possible way
Sources please..hard to believe that FOR-PROFIT corporations are less expensive than government run military.
1
It's not. Because of the atrocities they will commit I will be killed by an equally crazy guy whose brother ws killed by Blackwater.
We don't see terror groups punishing their own war criminals, do we?
4
1. Is that the standard you want to hold your government to? What terror groups do?
2. The war against Iraq was an enormous war crime. Where are the trials of G.W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, John Yoo, etc.?
~
2. The war against Iraq was an enormous war crime. Where are the trials of G.W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, John Yoo, etc.?
~
1
That is because the leaders don't hide behind low level nobodies. They at least have no issues saying that they gave the order unlike our American Oligarchy.
1
No and we should try harder to become like them.
These three are scapegoats, period. If they were "useful" to the US then they would have received pardons. Von Braun was certain responsible for many more brutal death and the US Government was happy to hire him to run NASA.. Well, Von Braun only helped murder 2300 Jewish slave prisoners, 1117 Russian slave prisoners, 432 Polish slave prisoners, and not counting 40,000 Brits (via bombing). But who's counting?
5
I am not surprised by anything anymore. First come the dirty deeds, then the numbing solutions. Ambivalence, then ambiguity. When all is said and done, the moral miasma persists, the warred on landscape recedes into board rooms, churches, synagogues, and mosques. Wars are no longer live on the evening news as Vietnam was, they are more 'polite' now. We mostly read about them in the New York Times or elsewhere. They are distal. Even beheadings or Hebdo massacre do not persist long in day to day life. Life is hard enough as it is without war and we certainly do not want to invite it in. Humanity has become more efficient when disengaged. We go to family, job, school, or church and pay our respects to our genome. We try to be tender, but it doesn't always work. A little peace would do.
3
US service women and men hated these guys. Military pay is abysmally low. The Blackwater boys were making big bucks and were basically making their own rules--which was no rules. Pretty awful. At least some of them will pay.
9
I'm sorry but who are you to speak for all service members? I've deployed with 4 different units and never heard anyone say they hated Blackwater or any other contractors. I'm sure there are SOME service members that do, but don't speak for us all.
Once in a while you do get a glimpse of what makes America exceptional --- but it is only once in a while.
3
Blackwater...they chose the name. What do you think that says about their culture?
1
The government transferred functions of the military to civilian subcontractors -- their friends, who got rich, and then when they the ex-government employees leave office they become lobbyists with massive salaries for the same companies. It's called corruption, and the people at the top get away with it. If you want justice, prosecute those who started an unnecessary and illegal war.
6
These sentences simultaneously show America holding some of its citizens legally accountable, even in times of war, while refusing to hold other of its citizens accountable.
One can reasonably conclude that these four men are merely sacrificial lambs, though no less guilty for that fact. What were they told was acceptable and by whom? How were they trained and by whom? Who authorized what? How far up the chain of command and control does this go, how many hiding behind plausible deniability? How many spoke in coded euphemisms encouraging these actions, and who are they? Who decided in favor of and then enabled the usage of mercenaries rather than military personnel bound by the Universal Code of Military Justice?
When America goes to war on the cheap, without a draft, without truly shared and substantial civilian sacrifice, it becomes easy to pay scant attention to reality, to accountability, to the sacrifice of the few, preferring instead a pretense of normalcy, of clarity instead of nuance, of a let's-just-move-on attitude.
Reading this right after the Times article on former Senator Bob Graham's efforts to uncover the truth about possible Saudi involvement in 9/11, again reminds me of the importance of accountability, not vengeance but a full airing of what occurred and how. Without such, as a people we are likely fated to repeat our follies.
One can reasonably conclude that these four men are merely sacrificial lambs, though no less guilty for that fact. What were they told was acceptable and by whom? How were they trained and by whom? Who authorized what? How far up the chain of command and control does this go, how many hiding behind plausible deniability? How many spoke in coded euphemisms encouraging these actions, and who are they? Who decided in favor of and then enabled the usage of mercenaries rather than military personnel bound by the Universal Code of Military Justice?
When America goes to war on the cheap, without a draft, without truly shared and substantial civilian sacrifice, it becomes easy to pay scant attention to reality, to accountability, to the sacrifice of the few, preferring instead a pretense of normalcy, of clarity instead of nuance, of a let's-just-move-on attitude.
Reading this right after the Times article on former Senator Bob Graham's efforts to uncover the truth about possible Saudi involvement in 9/11, again reminds me of the importance of accountability, not vengeance but a full airing of what occurred and how. Without such, as a people we are likely fated to repeat our follies.
4
We are already repeating our follies, several even. Lessons that we learned centuries ago.
Blackwater is an American horror story. Curious as to how parallel events have played out in Afghanistan, they most likely have but only time will tell.
4
They called them heroes on FIX News.
"judge" Jeanine Pirro said the judge is a "terrorists" sympathizer!
Megyn Kelly, Ann Coulter( she said they killed terrorists, not civilians), and O’Reilly all agreed next GOP president MUST pardon them.
But the biggest surprise of all, is when Dick Morris said an adviser to HRC “told” him if elected, she will pardon them.
Hooray to madam neo-con-aka Hilarious Clinton.
"judge" Jeanine Pirro said the judge is a "terrorists" sympathizer!
Megyn Kelly, Ann Coulter( she said they killed terrorists, not civilians), and O’Reilly all agreed next GOP president MUST pardon them.
But the biggest surprise of all, is when Dick Morris said an adviser to HRC “told” him if elected, she will pardon them.
Hooray to madam neo-con-aka Hilarious Clinton.
1
Just one more good reason NOT to vote for Hillary Clinton.
Dick Morris is an untrustworthy character.
1
I'm sincerely puzzled by many of the comments here. People who wave this away as nothing, saying that it should really be Bush, Cheney, etc who are tried. OK, fine. Advocate for that as you like. But these 17 people are people, with families, and they deserve justice regarding the ones who pulled the triggers. The same way Walter Scott's family does. Just because this took place in Iraq doesn't make it any less a distinct tragedy, with distinct perpetrators.
11
It seems that many of the commentators here are upset that the top murderers and torturers, the members of the Bush Administration, got away with it while the little people at the bottom are the scapegoats. Hear that Pres. Obama? That, and letting the Wall Street criminals off, is your legacy.
7
I am glad these men have been convicted. Reminds me of the old adage, "Wars will cease when men refuse to fight". Men must refuse to sign up for these killing machine organizations, whether it's the military or the quasi-military outsourced groups....
I also want the men at the top prosecuted but I don't dismiss the responsibility of the men on the front line as well...
I also want the men at the top prosecuted but I don't dismiss the responsibility of the men on the front line as well...
17
And I thought Nicholas A. Slatten was in Iraq to represent the Lollipop Guild.
Eric Prince the President of Blackwater probably donated $500 to a few congresspersons all so that he could feed at the trough of defense contracts. Everything outsourced in DoD that used to be done in house is a gift to a select few. A company is hired to do something they have no expertise in, so they subcontract down five layers to the people who do the actual work. Everyone claims General & Administrative expenses. This pays for the husband & wife to be paid 500K each, a few kids on the payroll. The people who do the actual work make peanuts. Not bad for a $500 contribution. The sad thing is both parties are eager to give DoD an even bigger blank check.
4
This is as a result of having a commander-in-chief who hasn't a clue as to what he is doing with our troops and those he appointed like Holder, for example. He continually wants to apologize for incidents which happen during war. He sends our troops into combat, he hires these people thinking what? They become combat veterans who endure everything a combat veteran does. He's nothing more than a block leader at the most. He should have been impeached a long time ago. I am sorry for these young men and I think those who worked with them should sue Obama and our federal government.
2
Umm...
The killing of 14 unarmed Iraqis happened in 2007, not on the watch of the President you want impeached.
The killing of 14 unarmed Iraqis happened in 2007, not on the watch of the President you want impeached.
1
This happened when Bush was president. Wanna rethink?
1
First of all, how are you going to impeach Bush (the commander-in-chief who sent "our troops into combat") when he has been out of office for 7 years?
Next, these guys aren't even troops. They are civilians.
Next, these guys aren't even troops. They are civilians.
5
Wasn't Condoleezza Rice the Secretary of State at the time? And weren't these particular Blackwater mercenaries working for her that day, "guarding" State Department personnel? Where is the usual chorus of Republicans seeking "accountability"? You know if it had happened on Hillary's watch, they would be all hair-on-fire screaming for her head. I'm just saying....
14
This is an appropriate case for executive clemency by President Obama.
These sentences are disproportionate to the offenses. First, the federal system, life is really life -- there is no parole. The machine gun charges are a prime example of overcharging by politically-motivated prosecutors. The statute was never intended to be applied in a context where, as here, the weapons were issued to these defendants as a result of a government procurement document. Forthwith, these sentences should be commuted to ten-year terms or less.
These sentences are disproportionate to the offenses. First, the federal system, life is really life -- there is no parole. The machine gun charges are a prime example of overcharging by politically-motivated prosecutors. The statute was never intended to be applied in a context where, as here, the weapons were issued to these defendants as a result of a government procurement document. Forthwith, these sentences should be commuted to ten-year terms or less.
1
These sentences do not go nearly far enough. The only justice would be to send these clods back to Iraq and put them in a pit surrounded by the parents, siblings, spouses, and children of the victims, all armed to the teeth with automatic weapons. Those sentences would definitely be commuted from 30 years to about, oh... 30 seconds.
For killing children.. That is all you think the lives of children are worth?
'the system worked' is used too often when there are so many cases where it didn't. would these men be classified as terrorists?
3
Anyone responsible for causing terror with ill-intent would be classified a terrorist from my understanding. I've recently realized some higher powers use terror to teach Loving lessons, haha. I'll see what to do about these guys, but those eyes do not look innocent to me. See you soon fellas.
How to misrepresent the "minimums mandatory under the law" as "long prison terms"... Life in prison for only one (with parole) and 30 years otherwise for slaughtering 14 Iraqis civilians? I don't see any "long prison terms" there only the bare minimum if not leniency.
8
i am not going to comment on the current case because i was not there in the adrenaline-fueled, kill-or-be-killed environment. but i have read history books and based on that literature i know that humans--even those who are normal, civil humans in normal, civil conditions--can do really horrible, barbaric things: the pacific front, germany, korea, vietnam.
let this be a lesson to war planners. it never is a cake walk.
let this be a lesson to war planners. it never is a cake walk.
4
"let this be a lesson to war planners".
Perhaps we should also consider that these four men were working as contractors. How well informed was the military chain of command about their activities ? How much did their massacre inflame the Iraqi public and imperil US forces in uniform ? These men dishonored the American military and must answer for what US courts have concluded were serious war crimes - a very sad conclusion in pursuit of some measure of justice.
Perhaps we should also consider that these four men were working as contractors. How well informed was the military chain of command about their activities ? How much did their massacre inflame the Iraqi public and imperil US forces in uniform ? These men dishonored the American military and must answer for what US courts have concluded were serious war crimes - a very sad conclusion in pursuit of some measure of justice.
1
Needed now is a serious investigation into the Cheney-Bush administration's "go slow" approach to this tragedy. Presumably this will have to await Democratic control of at lease one House of Congress.
Their strategy seems to have been to run out the statute of limitations deliberately.
However, I think the "machine gun" charges were a legal stretch. As the old saying has it, "hard cases make bad law."
Finally, the former Blackwater guards probably did believe they were under attack. It is difficult to imaging why they would engage in an unprovoked massacre.
Their strategy seems to have been to run out the statute of limitations deliberately.
However, I think the "machine gun" charges were a legal stretch. As the old saying has it, "hard cases make bad law."
Finally, the former Blackwater guards probably did believe they were under attack. It is difficult to imaging why they would engage in an unprovoked massacre.
1
Ah, how quickly we forget. I'd like to remind everyone of something: a majority in the USA voted for the Iraq invasion in one way or another, including the NY Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/20/opinion/the-war-begins.html.
I'm guilty - I voted for it. A lot of you are guilty - you voted for it too. What did we expect? Yes, soldiers die in war but also civilians die in war, lots of them. WE did this, not just these four men.
Shame on Bush, shame on the Times, and shame on us.
I'm guilty - I voted for it. A lot of you are guilty - you voted for it too. What did we expect? Yes, soldiers die in war but also civilians die in war, lots of them. WE did this, not just these four men.
Shame on Bush, shame on the Times, and shame on us.
2
Glad to see that, at long last, there was justice for the families of those killed. This seems to have been a fairly clear-cut case -- some of the fellow Blackwater contractors testified against them. Perhaps they didn't go there aiming to kill innocent people, but that's what they did, and in our justice system, they need to be held accountable for that.
2
Some of their buddies came home and became police officers.
2
The massacre of innocent people and the spreading of horror, disease and destruction is a completely predictable result of membership in the US military as well as mercenary outfits like Blackwater.
I take a zero tolerance approach. Apart from draftees, they are ALL criminals by definition.
I take a zero tolerance approach. Apart from draftees, they are ALL criminals by definition.
1
It's too bad we don't take torture at the hands of our nation's agencies and contractors as seriously.
5
From Wikipedia, 'Erik Prince':
Prince describes himself as a libertarian and practicing Roman Catholic. He describes his political views as follows:
"I'm a very free market guy. I'm not a huge believer that government provides a whole lot of solutions. Some think that government can solve society's problems. I tend to think private charities and private organizations are better solutions."
[However, I was more than willing to suspend these views when the evil US government agreed to pay me and my gunslingers all that money to clean up Dodge City. So cool when you have friends in high places.]
Prince describes himself as a libertarian and practicing Roman Catholic. He describes his political views as follows:
"I'm a very free market guy. I'm not a huge believer that government provides a whole lot of solutions. Some think that government can solve society's problems. I tend to think private charities and private organizations are better solutions."
[However, I was more than willing to suspend these views when the evil US government agreed to pay me and my gunslingers all that money to clean up Dodge City. So cool when you have friends in high places.]
7
On the world scale of things there always has to be a sacrificial lamb if they are caught up in this way. It's just a shame that they'll end up doing more time than some racist police officers who murder innocent American citizens. You reap what you sow, especially if you're black person or a sacrificial white person (You know who you are).
2
i'm sorry, your comment makes no sense to me. Am I being dense here?
Another tragic consequence of launching an unnecessary, trumped up war on a country and a civilian population which was not a threat to the United States, immediate or otherwise.......and the governmental powers that were in control in the U. S. at the time knew it. People here sat in front of their televisions and cheered as the "shock and awe" campaign began and the bombs dropped on Baghdad.
After the invasion reached Baghdad, I recall reading an article by a New York Times reporter who had gone out to one of the neighborhoods in Baghdad which had been bombed early in the "shock and awe" campaign and found a man standing by a still smoking hole in the ground, which had once been his and his extended family's home. He was a local small business owner/ shop keeper as I recall and had come home to have lunch with his family as usual. He came back after the bombing and literally tried to dig out the dead bodies of his wife and family from the rubble. How many completely innocent civilians did we kill and maim and traumatize in this terrible war, which will forever haunt us as a nation? God only knows..... but too many.
As I recall, this story was on the front page of the Times and I have never forgotten how horrified I was reading it . Now we have an out of control congress trying to instigate another war in the middle east, in a country where half the population is under 35 years of age. We have become a war loving nation.....guns and other weapons are our god.
After the invasion reached Baghdad, I recall reading an article by a New York Times reporter who had gone out to one of the neighborhoods in Baghdad which had been bombed early in the "shock and awe" campaign and found a man standing by a still smoking hole in the ground, which had once been his and his extended family's home. He was a local small business owner/ shop keeper as I recall and had come home to have lunch with his family as usual. He came back after the bombing and literally tried to dig out the dead bodies of his wife and family from the rubble. How many completely innocent civilians did we kill and maim and traumatize in this terrible war, which will forever haunt us as a nation? God only knows..... but too many.
As I recall, this story was on the front page of the Times and I have never forgotten how horrified I was reading it . Now we have an out of control congress trying to instigate another war in the middle east, in a country where half the population is under 35 years of age. We have become a war loving nation.....guns and other weapons are our god.
11
War is what this country exports and many of our owners profit from wars. The people who operate this country want perpetual war for perpetual profits. That is the real goal.
``Now we have an out of control congress trying to instigate another war in the middle east'' - they are NOT out of control in the true sense of the words> They are doing it for campaign contributions from Sheldon Adelson.
Quoting from previous Times article: "Friends, relatives and former military friends spoke on behalf of the four men, describing them, through tears, as patriotic, small-town men who deeply loved their families and their country." What about the families who lost their loved ones to these butchers? I blame the leader of Blackwater, who's responsibility was to train those so called men who loved their leader more that their country's morals. The leader and the men of Blackwater believed they were untouchable because they were sitting on Cheney's lap. I don't believe Bush was aware of what was going on because Herr Cheney,kept Bush from the truth not only with Blackwater,with everything else. Prince was Cheney's boy from the onset..In the Nuremberg trial the leader was also sent to prison. The reason Prince won't go to prison is because he'll throw Herr Cheney under the bus. Justice was not blind,it could smell the guilt, unfortunately not all the way to Prince and Herr Cheney.
5
If they were patriotic they should have enlisted.
Most, if not all, of the Blackwater contractors did enlist and serve....
The latest "fall guys" in our govt's never-ending attempts to appear to be "just" and "free" and beyond reproach. Poor saps - never saw it coming, but you know Cheney, Bush, Obama, Clinton, et.al. - they ALL saw this coming. Shame on them and shame on us for voting in our Plutocratic Oligarchy election after election for more than 60 years now. Time to wake up citizens of the U.S.; there IS a driving force behind our govt, and it is NOT "We The People" as it's supposed to be...
"fall guys" ? If it were really that simple. These guys were top dollar paid contractors. They weren't wearing the American uniform, they were wearing Blackwater issued combat gear. (with the corporate logo ?)
American soldiers when deployed should working directly in the command of US military personnel who have the institutional responsibility and authority to command discipline and decency. Blackwater and its successor(s) must be terminated - permanently.
American soldiers when deployed should working directly in the command of US military personnel who have the institutional responsibility and authority to command discipline and decency. Blackwater and its successor(s) must be terminated - permanently.
I bet that's what 4 Iraqi guys would get if they gunned down 17 people here. 30 years. Yep, that's what they'd get.
6
In the 10 year period 2003-2013, more than 174,000 Iraqis were killed, with 112,000 -123,000 of those victims being civilian noncombatants - big brothers, little sisters, grandparents, moms & dads. Yep, that's what they got.
1
What about Erik Prince? And the DoD officials who covered up the crime? Really, these are the guys who created the culture which permitted this to happen and ultimately need to be held accountable.
4
hallelujah, but the swine that hired them, shrub, darth and condi should be in the cell with them.
5
if this is our version of justice, we should prosecute ronald mcdonald for making america fat and poisoning our kids. sure, he's to blame, but he's just a clown taking orders.
2
Murderers.
5
Now when do G.W. Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld go to prison for facilitating this in the first place?
7
It amazes me how moral commenters get when they set their coffee in their air conditioned office down long enough to ponder the legitimacy of how war is waged. War is not and never has been fought in a vacuum. One may not agree with war period--and I say fine. But to debate which REGIME does it better, more humanely, etc. is a colassol waste of time and an indication of how truly insulated and out of touch someone is. I'm not ignoring that we should punish obvious slaughter of 'innocent' human life--but even these are not normal circumstances when you've seen your own brothers and sisters slaughtered. No one will ever know how difficult fighting a war is until you are there in the middle of it--with the intense insanity of it all bearing down on your own life. To have all the experts from the grandstands debating this and that about war is such a joke. To think that there is some way to wage it where only the responsible bad guys get killed is at best naive. War is hell--to repeat a well-known quote--but there's no way to better say it. And stop drinking the Kool-aid that one regime is better than another--you're dreaming.
3
T Kelly, you are right! This is why war should be fought by soldiers, with rules of engagement determined by strategists, and as part of an army that represents our government, with the legitimacy that this conveys, and with the protections that must be afforded to those in the trenches, along with a code of honor and military justice. War is not for "contractors" who at the end of the day, as this case shows, took all the blame while its corporate parent's profits were left untouched.
War isn't standing on a street corner mowing down unharmed woman and children ... Everything you write has nothing to do with this situation .. I'd be willing to bet none of these men ever saw any real combat in Iraq.
This is typical America. Enormous, wholly unaccountable companies like Blackwater exploit an incestuous relationship with government to provide unimaginable wealth for their elite insiders, and then they outsource the dirty work to financially desperate, often-unprepared, sometimes-unstable yokels who are thrust into war zones so hideous and vile that even Fred Rogers would pick up a gun and start shooting. And then when the inevitable happens, the elite insiders retire to their Hamptons homes while the yokels get life in the can.
6
This is what happens when government functions a "privatized."
There is no cost savings. In fact, given that the private vendor wants to make a profit (something that the government does not need) the costs has to be higher to cover the X% prift above the real cost. Often, the real cost is also higher. The contractors live in government provided quarters, the same as the troops, they eat in the military mess the same as the troops, and they get paid a higher wage than the troops. (How else do they recruit away members of the military, who can see that the pay is better on the private side?)
On top of all of that, they think they are accountable to no one, or are simply above the law.
There is no cost savings. In fact, given that the private vendor wants to make a profit (something that the government does not need) the costs has to be higher to cover the X% prift above the real cost. Often, the real cost is also higher. The contractors live in government provided quarters, the same as the troops, they eat in the military mess the same as the troops, and they get paid a higher wage than the troops. (How else do they recruit away members of the military, who can see that the pay is better on the private side?)
On top of all of that, they think they are accountable to no one, or are simply above the law.
6
Think Rumsfeld or Cheney helped with these guys' legal defense or
will help their families once they're sent up? Think Yoo and Wolfowitz
are enjoying a Hennesey and a cigar tonight after the opera?
will help their families once they're sent up? Think Yoo and Wolfowitz
are enjoying a Hennesey and a cigar tonight after the opera?
5
America...the beacon to all for "rule of law" and justice. LOL.
2
It is an odd coincidence that this case has come to trial as we are discovering that some members of our law enforcement community are murderers who then lie and hide behind the (former) respect given their badge to cover their tracks.
Why is everyone getting all teary eyed over these men. Patriotism was not their driving motivation to be in Iraq, money was. They were mercenaries, hired killers, on the side of whoever pays their inflated salary. If patriotism was their driving motive they would have enlisted and not charged their country so much to carry out their duties. So lets not confuse hired killers out for a machine gun joyride, committing mass murder in the process for fun, with our truly patriotic soldiers who were deployed again and again in the most poorly thought out war since Vietnam.
I think we all need to take this time as a reason to remember the Iraq War, when Bush upset the balance of the region like an elephant in a china shop. and remember that the same party who rang up record deficits (that Obama has now cut by two thirds) and killed hundreds of thousands of people now control congress and want to impose their utter stupidity in world affairs on the nation; want to kill all our social programs that benefit all Americans; and desperately want to please the rich who purchased them trying to give a tax cut to billionaires.
If there was ever a time to remember and sweep the Republicans out of power forever, that time is now.
Why is everyone getting all teary eyed over these men. Patriotism was not their driving motivation to be in Iraq, money was. They were mercenaries, hired killers, on the side of whoever pays their inflated salary. If patriotism was their driving motive they would have enlisted and not charged their country so much to carry out their duties. So lets not confuse hired killers out for a machine gun joyride, committing mass murder in the process for fun, with our truly patriotic soldiers who were deployed again and again in the most poorly thought out war since Vietnam.
I think we all need to take this time as a reason to remember the Iraq War, when Bush upset the balance of the region like an elephant in a china shop. and remember that the same party who rang up record deficits (that Obama has now cut by two thirds) and killed hundreds of thousands of people now control congress and want to impose their utter stupidity in world affairs on the nation; want to kill all our social programs that benefit all Americans; and desperately want to please the rich who purchased them trying to give a tax cut to billionaires.
If there was ever a time to remember and sweep the Republicans out of power forever, that time is now.
7
I think this decision puts the USA on a standard above all powers. US court system does not account to any citizen of any country other than the US itself. Yet, it just made a decision against its citizens, its own best interest. The only winner was justice. Pure, honest, transparent justice. American Justice. Real justice.
A decision like this helps keep the World assured that the side the US chooses to shoot for has a high chance of being the right side.
God Bless America
A decision like this helps keep the World assured that the side the US chooses to shoot for has a high chance of being the right side.
God Bless America
3
There are three paths for war criminals in the US.
By far the most common is complete pardon without trial or investigation. Into this category fit the still unnamed killers seen in the Collateral Murder video released by Wikileaks, the CIA torturers, Bush, Cheney, Petraeus and countless others.
The second most common is trial followed by complete acquittal.
In rare cases like Blackwater, public outrage and disgust at the depravity of the crimes leads to a conviction and jail term. After things die down a bit, the criminals are released after a brief stay in prison on any number of trumped up technicalities. This is standard procedure.
It is highly unlikely any of these killers will spend over a year in prison before they are returned to society.
By far the most common is complete pardon without trial or investigation. Into this category fit the still unnamed killers seen in the Collateral Murder video released by Wikileaks, the CIA torturers, Bush, Cheney, Petraeus and countless others.
The second most common is trial followed by complete acquittal.
In rare cases like Blackwater, public outrage and disgust at the depravity of the crimes leads to a conviction and jail term. After things die down a bit, the criminals are released after a brief stay in prison on any number of trumped up technicalities. This is standard procedure.
It is highly unlikely any of these killers will spend over a year in prison before they are returned to society.
I would like to see the N.Y. Times do an expose on Erik Prince and his father Edgar Prince.
Erick changed the name of Blackwater to Acadami.....but most everyone knows that it is the same company that took millions and millions of taxpayer money to fight as mercenaries in Iraq. Didn't anyone in Congress know what was going on?
Something is rotten in the Department of Defense.
I have heard that Erick's father is a close friend and supporter of James Dobson and Focus on the Family.
Maybe Rachel Maddow will give us the full story and background today or tomorrow !
Erick changed the name of Blackwater to Acadami.....but most everyone knows that it is the same company that took millions and millions of taxpayer money to fight as mercenaries in Iraq. Didn't anyone in Congress know what was going on?
Something is rotten in the Department of Defense.
I have heard that Erick's father is a close friend and supporter of James Dobson and Focus on the Family.
Maybe Rachel Maddow will give us the full story and background today or tomorrow !
3
You know who really belongs in prison, Bush Sr.. Bill Clinton, Bush Jr., Chaney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rice, Obomba, Hillary and every other rotten scoundrel that has run our country into the ground for the war profiteers
2
Naked arrogance and disrespect run amok. As an Air Force veteran, I applaud the decision.
“Even in real war, a just prince, while laying hands, in the enemy’s country, on all that belongs to the public, respects the lives and goods of the individuals: he respects rights on which his own are founded.” (Rousseau)
“Even in real war, a just prince, while laying hands, in the enemy’s country, on all that belongs to the public, respects the lives and goods of the individuals: he respects rights on which his own are founded.” (Rousseau)
4
The executives make policy and give orders and when it goes bad the factotum, who needed the jobs and were afraid to question authority, go to jail: abu ghraib, bogus mortgage loans, rob-signing of affidavits, destroying documentation of black jails, etc. Locking up a few low level bums hardly proves the justice system works.
2
The absurdity of privatizing our military revealed.
7
So murderers can love their country too? Or does their country love them to murder? Both apparently, since they were being paid by their country to do it. Now they pay the price for their grim reaping, but all Americans are responsible for them being there in the first place. This incident is an example of how 'The Great Satan' earns its reputation. Putting 5 demons in prison won't affect that in the least.
3
Part of me hopes that this is a triumph of systemic integrity, that they are being held to account for some of the heinous excesses that were perpetrated by private military action junkes during the Iraq war. If they are indeed guilty of murdering civilians, than I am glad they are being punished to the max.
Then, there's that part of me that worries they might be scapegoats... that they might have been men in a difficult situation who did whatever they had to do to survive.
Its very predictable that a certain 'type' will rise to support these men without any mind towards objectivity. Likewise, another type will mindlessly condemn them. All I hope is that this verdict is rooted in fairness.
Then, there's that part of me that worries they might be scapegoats... that they might have been men in a difficult situation who did whatever they had to do to survive.
Its very predictable that a certain 'type' will rise to support these men without any mind towards objectivity. Likewise, another type will mindlessly condemn them. All I hope is that this verdict is rooted in fairness.
2
So many blogs here blaming Bush for this crime with the added question of why he was not included in the punishment of these three Blackwater killers.
My question, whenever I read these holier than thou comments, is how did Bush become our president for 8 years. Hypocrisy at its finest.
My question, whenever I read these holier than thou comments, is how did Bush become our president for 8 years. Hypocrisy at its finest.
2
Huh? You insult all of those (including me), who empatically did *not* vote for him.
First off Bush became president when an election result in Florida was certified when there should have been a revote because of a defective ballot. He in effect stole the election and this was blessed by the Supremes. A crime in my opinion.
Secondly, remember when Bush flew onto the aircraft carrier and declared combat actions complete? (A war that continued until after he left office for several more years and several thousand more dead people later ) He did that because it is against the law to bring in civilian contractors into a war zone. So it was bring on the contractors. No military conduct rules, big profits for the fat cats like Halliburton, and an outrageous pay scale paid for by the US taxpayers. Did anyone really think the war was over? No, they just wanted to get the money rolling in. Another crime tantamount to treason in my opinion.
Several members of the Bush administration are guilty of treason for starting the war under false pretenses (WMDs) along with the whole phony thing about the war is over, bring in the contractors. It was one lie after another. It is a heartbreak and a shame so many people paid with their lives.
Secondly, remember when Bush flew onto the aircraft carrier and declared combat actions complete? (A war that continued until after he left office for several more years and several thousand more dead people later ) He did that because it is against the law to bring in civilian contractors into a war zone. So it was bring on the contractors. No military conduct rules, big profits for the fat cats like Halliburton, and an outrageous pay scale paid for by the US taxpayers. Did anyone really think the war was over? No, they just wanted to get the money rolling in. Another crime tantamount to treason in my opinion.
Several members of the Bush administration are guilty of treason for starting the war under false pretenses (WMDs) along with the whole phony thing about the war is over, bring in the contractors. It was one lie after another. It is a heartbreak and a shame so many people paid with their lives.
The real criminals not only continue to skate free, but begin the pimping of the next war.
And the politicians and pundits ponder America's sour rage, perceiving nothing.
And the politicians and pundits ponder America's sour rage, perceiving nothing.
5
Evidence matters. Apparently there was plenty.
As a person who occasionally looks up the case of Lt Calley in (Vietnam via Youtube and Wikipedia) as a reminder of how Americans can just as militarily cruel as any people, and (by virtue of the pardon demanded by American protesters and given by Nixon) just as callous about the lives of foreigners, this verdict and sentencing is refreshing. The tragedy would have been another double standard application of justice.
As a person who occasionally looks up the case of Lt Calley in (Vietnam via Youtube and Wikipedia) as a reminder of how Americans can just as militarily cruel as any people, and (by virtue of the pardon demanded by American protesters and given by Nixon) just as callous about the lives of foreigners, this verdict and sentencing is refreshing. The tragedy would have been another double standard application of justice.
6
I wonder if any of these guys has applied to be a policeman in the interim between events and trial.
4
Unfortunately, the day before the mass manslaughter, all participants would have been prototypical police recruits in the U.S. .....they all would have followed the script in their civil service interviews : 'Sir, I have combat experience - but I just want to help people'
Good start.
5
May God forgive us for the evil we do. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, all who agreed with "stuff happens" when will they be brought to trial? Blackwater was an expression of their evil-doing...not to say that the Blackwater crew isn't guilty...but they are the Eichmann's of the war. They just followed orders. OMG.
4
Great, they should.
2
What could be more dangerous to this nation's democracy or indeed to the world given that the US is the lone superpower, than an unchecked PRIVATE military force with complete power of life and death in one of our colonial possessions?
A force that was owned and operated by a known right wing religious fanatic with connections at the highest level of government. That had been granted essentially unlimited budgetary discretion, no-bid contracts, immunity from local law (that in itself is a sure sign of racist colonialism -- the Brits also exempted themselves from the law of their 'lesser peoples' as well, a century and more ago) and full access to the White House and State Dept?
If you doubt any of this, read Jeremy Scahill's courageous expose, BLACKWATER, which details the origins and rise of this criminal enterprise that the world has seen nothing quite like since the SS wrote it's own ticket in the dark recesses of the Third Reich.
At the onset of WWII, FDR pledged that "War Profiteers" would be hunted down and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Under Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld War Profiteering was raised to the level of patriotic glory.
Erik Prinz, the little Himmler of this now renamed organization is in self-imposed exile in the Gulf States.
This is the result. Unfortunately its just effluent at the top of this particular septic tank of evil.
A force that was owned and operated by a known right wing religious fanatic with connections at the highest level of government. That had been granted essentially unlimited budgetary discretion, no-bid contracts, immunity from local law (that in itself is a sure sign of racist colonialism -- the Brits also exempted themselves from the law of their 'lesser peoples' as well, a century and more ago) and full access to the White House and State Dept?
If you doubt any of this, read Jeremy Scahill's courageous expose, BLACKWATER, which details the origins and rise of this criminal enterprise that the world has seen nothing quite like since the SS wrote it's own ticket in the dark recesses of the Third Reich.
At the onset of WWII, FDR pledged that "War Profiteers" would be hunted down and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Under Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld War Profiteering was raised to the level of patriotic glory.
Erik Prinz, the little Himmler of this now renamed organization is in self-imposed exile in the Gulf States.
This is the result. Unfortunately its just effluent at the top of this particular septic tank of evil.
2
Justice can take a long time. These guys acted above any law. They deserve this.
It's nice to see a shred of accountability, but this smells pretty badly of scapegoating. Everything we've read suggests Blackwater embodied a whole culture of lawlessness and unchecked violence. Punishing the men who happened to pull the triggers (this time) misses the broader point. They were likely doing what was expected of them. Their comments and the outpouring of support from their communities suggests this. The greater blame would seem to lie both with the commanders at Blackwater, and with U.S. officials who hired them to do what the military legally couldn't.
2
The right thing would be to exonerate a dozen or so participants in the Iraq war, due to extenuating circumstances, and jail the rest.
How in the world can you well meaning fools not see the truth? The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Muslins in the middle east kill each other every day because of shiite or sunni affiliations. God help you if you are a Jew or Christian. They started this.
1
The FBI I read pushed the DOJ to do the right thing. Perhaps Erik (Blackwater, Xe) Prince might similarly be held accountabe - on an even grander, sadder scale - for once. Oh, and Halliburton. And enabler in chief Dick Chainknee.
But, they look like such nice men.............
Oops, not really.......let's go with Malcolm Gladwell's "Blink." They look guilty as sin.........
Oops, not really.......let's go with Malcolm Gladwell's "Blink." They look guilty as sin.........
Curious to know WHEN the Bush/Cheney Administration will be indicted for THEIR crimes against, not only this country, but our Military and foreign civilians who paid the Ultimate price in their trumped up Wars? These men got what they deserve, however, the BIGGER Criminals still walk free and spend opinions on who, what and where we should go to War against next! The deck is stacked AGAINST Justice and accountability, two virtues that have been sadly lacking since the Reagan Administration! Hopefully, Americans will elect better men and women than these lesser ones who have brought us so low. One can only hope.
1
What could possibly go wrong with outsourcing military duties for profit?
By 2008, the US spent:
"$100 billion on contractors in Iraq since the invasion in 2003...."
"... one out of every five dollars spent on the war in Iraq has gone to contractors for the United States military and other government agencies, in a war zone where employees of private contractors now outnumber American troops.
The Pentagon’s reliance on outside contractors in Iraq is proportionately far larger than in any previous conflict, and it has fueled charges that this outsourcing has led to overbilling, fraud and shoddy and unsafe work that has endangered and even killed American troops. The role of armed security contractors has also raised new legal and political questions about whether the United States has become too dependent on private armed forces on the 21st-century battlefield." (James Risen, New York Times, 8/11/2008)
Have we learned anything yet?
By 2008, the US spent:
"$100 billion on contractors in Iraq since the invasion in 2003...."
"... one out of every five dollars spent on the war in Iraq has gone to contractors for the United States military and other government agencies, in a war zone where employees of private contractors now outnumber American troops.
The Pentagon’s reliance on outside contractors in Iraq is proportionately far larger than in any previous conflict, and it has fueled charges that this outsourcing has led to overbilling, fraud and shoddy and unsafe work that has endangered and even killed American troops. The role of armed security contractors has also raised new legal and political questions about whether the United States has become too dependent on private armed forces on the 21st-century battlefield." (James Risen, New York Times, 8/11/2008)
Have we learned anything yet?
3
We have shown the Iraqis that we will seriously punish those who killed them for no good reason. Dollars to donuts we will quietly find a way to reduce their sentences which are way out of line for those who have acted improperly in the course of fighting for America during wartime.
I have to say I half expected all of them to get off without penalty. Sad, sad complication of a totally unnecessary war, brought to you by George W. Bush and war profiteers. I'm looking at you, Dick Cheney and Erik Prince.
2
"In the end, the Justice Department said, the case showed the world that the United States judicial system worked, even in war zones, . . ."
Really? Did the Justice Department say that with a straight face? What about Guantanamo Bay? Is that American justice?
Really? Did the Justice Department say that with a straight face? What about Guantanamo Bay? Is that American justice?
1
What a miscarriage of justice. These men were placed in an untenable situation and had to deal with the circumstances as they saw them. It's easy to sit back, take your time and analyze everything that was happening -- in a courtroom 5000 miles from Baghdad.
However, these young men, given their training and experience were asked to cope with an uncertain situation, in a foreign country and with a crowd that could turn hostile -- and did.
My hope is that an appeals court sees the injustice done here and allows these men to go home to their families.
However, these young men, given their training and experience were asked to cope with an uncertain situation, in a foreign country and with a crowd that could turn hostile -- and did.
My hope is that an appeals court sees the injustice done here and allows these men to go home to their families.
1
"My hope is that an appeals court sees the injustice done here and allows these men to go home to their families."
And the families of the slain? Do they deserve justice?
And the families of the slain? Do they deserve justice?
The U.S. government is responsible for allowing contractors to run wild in Iraq without any supervision whatsoever. Blackwater and other contractors did not act under the supervision of any government authority, they were contracted given jobs to do and from early on they began to act pretty much as they pleased in accomplishing those jobs. So yes, these men are being held responsible where they bear responsibility but not all of it. However, they killed people more from carelessness than from any real threat to themselves so they are responsible.
These men joined up for high pay and created this particular situation .. they were not placed .. and if they had any training they wouldn't have murdered unharmed people ........
Justice done at last. Why is Blackwater still in business?
2
A policeman is charged with murder in the killing of an unarmed black man, perhaps his colleague will be charged as well. Four contractors are convicted as if they'd committed their murders in the US. One day "collateral damage" won't be an acceptable euphemism, and US Presidents will be held accountable for their actions. Glimmers of hope in a world of insanity.
2
As far as the Iraqi people go, this must be a classic case of justice delayed, justice denied.
The law taking its course at least shows that United States stands for values. However, not prosecuting "glorious war criminals"— Bush and Cheney— including the sweet lady, Rice questions what America stands for? Will America prosecute those people and treat as war criminals or not will test the true color of America. And also what they actually stand for.
Some gubmint agency will sneak these guys out the back door of the prison and put them back to work as mercs.
1
This is what our Federal Government gets for allowing contractors to go work in a war torn area! They should NOT allow any of them near those areas and stop them from going to work for foreign governments! And I totally agree with Paul Cohen!
The greatest military force in the world needs "security contractors?" What's wrong with this picture? Too many wars?
1
Hiring mercenaries to do America's dirty work seemed like a very bad idea from the get-go. Anyone with any common sense could have seen this coming. It's the idea of service and sacrifice for one's country that makes for great warriors, not the idea of a big pay check. I hope the powers that be have managed to grasp the obvious.
1
When your own troops testify against you, you know it was murder.
These sentences provoke a very complex reaction. They simultaneously show America holding some of its citizens legally accountable, even in times of war, while refusing to hold other of its citizens accountable.
One can reasonably conclude that these four men are merely sacrificial lambs, though no less guilty for that fact. What were they told was acceptable and by whom? How were they trained and by whom? Who authorized what? How far up the chain of command and control does this go, how many hiding behind plausible deniability? How many spoke in coded euphemisms encouraging these actions, and who are they? Who decided in favor of and then enabled the usage of mercenaries rather than military personnel bound by the Universal Code of Military Justice?
When America goes to war on the cheap, without a draft, without truly shared and substantial civilian sacrifice, it becomes easy to pay scant attention to reality, to accountability, to the sacrifice of the few, preferring instead a pretense of normalcy, of clarity instead of nuance, of a let's-just-move-on attitude.
Reading this right after the Times article on former Senator Bob Graham's efforts to uncover the truth about possible Saudi involvement in 9/11, again reminds me of the importance of accountability, not vengeance but a full airing of what occurred and how. Without such, as a people we are likely fated to repeat our follies.
One can reasonably conclude that these four men are merely sacrificial lambs, though no less guilty for that fact. What were they told was acceptable and by whom? How were they trained and by whom? Who authorized what? How far up the chain of command and control does this go, how many hiding behind plausible deniability? How many spoke in coded euphemisms encouraging these actions, and who are they? Who decided in favor of and then enabled the usage of mercenaries rather than military personnel bound by the Universal Code of Military Justice?
When America goes to war on the cheap, without a draft, without truly shared and substantial civilian sacrifice, it becomes easy to pay scant attention to reality, to accountability, to the sacrifice of the few, preferring instead a pretense of normalcy, of clarity instead of nuance, of a let's-just-move-on attitude.
Reading this right after the Times article on former Senator Bob Graham's efforts to uncover the truth about possible Saudi involvement in 9/11, again reminds me of the importance of accountability, not vengeance but a full airing of what occurred and how. Without such, as a people we are likely fated to repeat our follies.
5
Maybe they'll make a blockbuster movie about them.
"Americans gone wild."
Should we thank them for their service? After all, they were defending our freedom.
"Americans gone wild."
Should we thank them for their service? After all, they were defending our freedom.
Unfortunately or fortunately (which ever way you want to look at it) the court system used these 4 men as an example to show the world that USA works towards peace and justice where bigger sharks and perpetrators in the background gets to enjoy their leisure afternoon in their fancy home with some fancy wines. By no means the heinous crimes they committed is justifiable and deserves punishment, but these men were trained and paid to kill from get-go by their boss/trainer/sergeant whatever you may call it. So why aren't their bosses punished? Why aren't the government officials that allowed these crimes are being punished?
2
ALL architects, supporters and participants in the Iraq genocide launched by Bush should be in jail for life. They are accomplices in mass murder.
2
While I agree with others that the Big Fish should face war crime charges for the Iraq debacle, their complicity does not excuse the actions of these four men.
They went to work for Blackwater for one reason and one reason only: personal profit. They were paid large amounts of money to go to Iraq as mercenaries. You may call them "security contractors" or "protective consultants" or whatever else you want to obfuscate the reality of their job description. The reality is that they were hired killers working at the behest of the U.S. government.
So this is what American military intervention has become since the George W. Bush administration: Armed mercenaries and "volunteer" soldiers doing our dirty work for us. Many of our soldiers are drawn from the poorest social class with limited educational and career options. We might as well call it what it really is: a national draft that is limited to those with the fewest opportunities for gainful employment.
The actions of the Blackwater Four is another dark stain on the bloody history of our military adventures made possible by our dysfunctional political process. Old men send young men to die in foreign lands to further political ambitions and provide obscene profits for their defense contractor benefactors.
We could do so much for this ailing world with our trillions of tax dollars and talented young people. But instead our unimaginative leaders continue to prefer to project American "values" via the barrels of guns.
They went to work for Blackwater for one reason and one reason only: personal profit. They were paid large amounts of money to go to Iraq as mercenaries. You may call them "security contractors" or "protective consultants" or whatever else you want to obfuscate the reality of their job description. The reality is that they were hired killers working at the behest of the U.S. government.
So this is what American military intervention has become since the George W. Bush administration: Armed mercenaries and "volunteer" soldiers doing our dirty work for us. Many of our soldiers are drawn from the poorest social class with limited educational and career options. We might as well call it what it really is: a national draft that is limited to those with the fewest opportunities for gainful employment.
The actions of the Blackwater Four is another dark stain on the bloody history of our military adventures made possible by our dysfunctional political process. Old men send young men to die in foreign lands to further political ambitions and provide obscene profits for their defense contractor benefactors.
We could do so much for this ailing world with our trillions of tax dollars and talented young people. But instead our unimaginative leaders continue to prefer to project American "values" via the barrels of guns.
3
They should be waterboarded before they are thrown in a cell, along with their psychotic fuhrer Erik Prince.
1
How is it when a crime is committed on the sovereign soil of another nation, Iraq, American citizens can be tried on US soil? We should have passed the Keystone pipeline. Then we could vacate the Middle East and let them figure out their lives for themselves. We could use the military to fix our infrastructure and secure our borders and put the billions of dollars spent on these never ending wars back to our citizens.
About time these thugs were convicted, although there many more of their coworkers who got away war crimes..the government hired these companies with little or no oversight..although the real war criminals by the name of Bush/Cheney have still not been charged and tried.
4
Justice for humanity. It sickens me when I think of the millions of people who have died because of the Iraq war. Our invasion of Iraq caused the current mess in Syria, Libya and the complete destabilization of Iraq
The United States should be publicly apologizing for this invasion of Iraq. They were better off under Sadam Hussain. And that is a very sad and troublesome fact.
.
The United States should be publicly apologizing for this invasion of Iraq. They were better off under Sadam Hussain. And that is a very sad and troublesome fact.
.
4
Finally one minute step towards justice. Who is guilty for the rest the murdered?Not Bush?
4
Mercenaries are not official members of the military. Military personnel take an oath to the Constitution. In war or at peace their actions are proscribed under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Mercenaries take no such oath, have no such responsibility, are not covered by any law. They are freebooters. Armed thugs. These thugs should have been tried by the Iraqis for crimes committed on their soil. Their justice might have been more swift, not eight years on.
The shame of this is that those who engaged the services of these mercenaries are getting away with it--Rumsfeld et al. These killings were war crimes--murders of civilians in a war zone. The war criminals are the people who sent them there. Eric Prince, Rumsfeld and Bush are getting off scot-free.
The shame of this is that those who engaged the services of these mercenaries are getting away with it--Rumsfeld et al. These killings were war crimes--murders of civilians in a war zone. The war criminals are the people who sent them there. Eric Prince, Rumsfeld and Bush are getting off scot-free.
6
These men did a lot of harm in a frame of mind in which they thought that they were just doing their jobs and that the people shot were just collateral damage in furtherance of their mission. Apparently these men believed that they were justified in shooting a whole bunch of innocent people to assure that they could be certain of protecting their clients and themselves in a fluid and uncertain situation. Essentially they shot first and then concerned themselves with the significance of the threat -- better to be tried by twelve than borne by six kind of thinking. It was the kind of thing that results from having people do sensitive jobs which can affect national security without any responsible supervision by anyone in the government over people hired to do a job for money. The committed a war crime, really no different from any other war crime except that they were not soldiers when they committed it.
In the full context of the situation, our government sent these people to do a job without any reasonable supervision and with an implicit understanding that whatever they did in the course of their jobs they did with impunity. Blackwater was involved in at least two other tragic events where they simply made too little effort to address contingencies which were foreseeable but would have cost them money to address well, showing that making money came before safeguarding human lives.
In the full context of the situation, our government sent these people to do a job without any reasonable supervision and with an implicit understanding that whatever they did in the course of their jobs they did with impunity. Blackwater was involved in at least two other tragic events where they simply made too little effort to address contingencies which were foreseeable but would have cost them money to address well, showing that making money came before safeguarding human lives.
1
It was not our government, it was Blackwater as a subcontractor. They were doing a mercenary job, they did a mess up there, and they paid for what they did, that's about it.
Since when are mercenaries called "patriots"?
4
It was the Muslims who started this with 911.
An eye for an eye.
Wasn't it the Blackwater employees who were hung and burned alive and dragged down the streets?
You act like Iraq people are civilized? Really?
They kill any one they don't like with out thinking.
An eye for an eye.
Wasn't it the Blackwater employees who were hung and burned alive and dragged down the streets?
You act like Iraq people are civilized? Really?
They kill any one they don't like with out thinking.
Absurd. You are judging an entire nation for the acts of a few. That Iraqi family was innocent and they were wrongly killed without excuse. The Blackwater guys who fired carelessly and unprovoked deserved their sentence.
An eye for an eye makes everyone blind.
bruce wouters, Al Qaeda, a Sunni Muslim terrorist organization led by Osama bin Laden, started this with 911, not the Muslims. This is why we invaded Afghanistan where Bin Laden was living.
Iraq had nothing to do with 911.
This was the lie, based in hate and fear but not in facts, which the neocons, Dick Cheney and his administration along with Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu as an expert witness sold to our congress and to the American people.
Iraqis are civilized. There are justifiably upset about the U.S. invasion under the pretense they possessed WMDs and were connected to Al Qaeda; which Iraq knew was not true.
Iraq had nothing to do with 911.
This was the lie, based in hate and fear but not in facts, which the neocons, Dick Cheney and his administration along with Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu as an expert witness sold to our congress and to the American people.
Iraqis are civilized. There are justifiably upset about the U.S. invasion under the pretense they possessed WMDs and were connected to Al Qaeda; which Iraq knew was not true.
1
Their actions were no surprise to any soldier who saw private security companies in action in Iraq. State and DoD should never have used private contractors in a war zone.
2
They committed the crime in Irak, they slaughtered 17 Irakian citizens, so how come they were not tried in Baghdad? I mean, if an American rapes a girl in Japan, the guy would be tried in Tokyo, right?
Just asking...
Just asking...
Probably 5/6 of the commenters here use the same hyperventilating, florid language to state, ad nauseam, their hatred of W and Cheney. It really is little different from right wing boards who hate Obama (remember the guy who authorized drone killings of American citizens?)
Suggestion: stop, look and listen. Put the gun down. Then, and only then, issue a thoughtful post.
Suggestion: stop, look and listen. Put the gun down. Then, and only then, issue a thoughtful post.
2
Nonsense! To equate the fraudulent war of Dubya and Cheney with Obama in any sense is a non sequitur. Tens of thousands of people dead, destruction abounding, the fighting continuing and you want to justify the cold logic of placing blame where it is due with the prejudicial, slanderous hatred of Obama as an equal? Either you are incapable of discerning reality or part of the wave of irrational hatred that defines the right wing in this country today. Nonsense!
Unfortunately this type of thing will continue to happen until the big dogs at the top are held to account. Bush, today, is smiling today, clearing brush on his ranch in Crawford, TX, totally oblivious of the trial. Cheney, also oblivious of the trial, is busy shooting shooting his friends in the face. THESE are the people that should rot.
4
Usually the law punishes the killer and who is behind the atrocious act.
Unless that "Who" is a powerful politician.
Unless that "Who" is a powerful politician.
4
Once again, we are reminded of the legacy of George W. Dunce, Dick Cheney and the rest of the chicken hawks --- like Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Karl Rove and other Republicans --- who sought numerous college deferments rather than serving their nation in time of war.
And they these cowardly frauds call themselves "patriots?"
(Colin Powell's autobiography, My American Journey, p. 148)
"I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well-placed... managed to wangle slots in Reserve and National Guard units. . . Of the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to the ideal that all Americans are created equal and owe equal allegiance to their country."
http://www.liberalslikechrist.org/+Reasonable/chickenhawks.html
And they these cowardly frauds call themselves "patriots?"
(Colin Powell's autobiography, My American Journey, p. 148)
"I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well-placed... managed to wangle slots in Reserve and National Guard units. . . Of the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to the ideal that all Americans are created equal and owe equal allegiance to their country."
http://www.liberalslikechrist.org/+Reasonable/chickenhawks.html
5
If you voted for the 2nd term of Cheney-Bush in 2004 you are by default an accessory to war crimes.
3
Isn't there a law about being an accessory to a crime...if you are the one hiring?
1
I'm not usually inclined to jump in and say the same thing as other commenters but this is different.
Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Yoo. You should also be tried. We know you will not but you also know you live among many, many hostile Americans and this is something else "we will not forget."
Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Yoo. You should also be tried. We know you will not but you also know you live among many, many hostile Americans and this is something else "we will not forget."
6
Wrong people in prison, the real criminals (Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld) are free to roam.
8
These men were mercenaries. They are fortunate to have received the due process of the justice system. The people they killed did not benefit from the same.
5
WHY is not the person who decided to outsource the military to these unchecked mercenaries responsible?
5
It is gratifying to see some pumped up punks answer for their crimes but it makes it all that much harder to see the real mass murderers get away with it. War criminals like Henry Kissinger got away with the murder of millions in the early 1970s. Don't expect to see justice for the architects of this blood-stained adventure. W and his dad's cronies will enjoy a lovely retirement, perhaps providing.
6
I guess you could include JFK as well.
Amen. The massacres in Bangladesh led directly to the Oval Office. Henry Kissinger joked when the military dictator of Pakistan visited Washington that "[he] hasn't had so much fun since he last massacred a bunch of Hindus." Heinous.
The only thing wrong with these convictions is that they are, woefully, incomplete.
2
The will all have their sentences radially reduced on appeal or thrown out altogether.
The US does not jail its war criminals. Perod.
The US does not jail its war criminals. Perod.
2
I look at those faces and not even a stereotype image of fear driven into the minds of whites provokes concern. I would not want to meet any of these guys; even in a crowded street in broad daylight. Not one hoodie from the hood ever evoked so much anger and fear. Maybe the photographer just got thier bad side. Next time, shoot the picture from the backs of their heads.
"In the end, the Justice Department said, the case showed the world that the United States judicial system worked, even in war zones, and even when the gunmen were Americans and the victims were Iraqis."
Yeah, but the US judicial system is apparently not able to work, even in war zones, when it comes to a US citizen thought to be engaged in terrorist activity. In those cases, a Predator drone is the US judicial system, at least since Obama became CinC.
All the nimrods who think Cheney and Bush should have instead been prosecuted for war crimes, better be careful opening that door. Cheney and Bush didn't order the killings without due process of US citizens, like Obama has repeatedly done. There's a war criminal for you.
Yeah, but the US judicial system is apparently not able to work, even in war zones, when it comes to a US citizen thought to be engaged in terrorist activity. In those cases, a Predator drone is the US judicial system, at least since Obama became CinC.
All the nimrods who think Cheney and Bush should have instead been prosecuted for war crimes, better be careful opening that door. Cheney and Bush didn't order the killings without due process of US citizens, like Obama has repeatedly done. There's a war criminal for you.
Nearly all of the comments for this story describe these men as either small fry or fall guys for the Bush 43 team of miscreants who led us into the Iraq war. And when the top criminal mind of that team, Vice President Dick Cheney continues to harass the current administration, it is clearly Cheney's ongoing plan to distract the press from his own actions.
Now this episode is front and center again with the convictions and sentencing of four men who opened fire on innocent civilians. But why do they still proclaim they" did nothing wrong"? Give a lot of credit/blame to a culture of "tell the lie and apologize later (if you get caught)" that has been so pervasive since the dawn of the Bush 43 administration. Conservative media gas bags use that concept every day to dupe their loyal audiences.
Most people in my sphere of friendships have been pretty tough on Colin Powell for his speech at the UN General Assembly using bogus "evidence" to start the war. But he was duped by Cheney, the CIA director George Tenent, Stephen Hadley, Condi Rice, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and the shadowy figure from The Defense Policy Institute, Richard Pearle, who roamed the Pentagon advising the military to suit his own fortunes.
Another war criminal on that Team 43 was UC Berkeley law professor, John Yoo, who provided "legal" cover for Cheney's torture program including "extraordinary" rendition shipping terror suspects to countries where torture was legal.
Is this just the beginning?
Now this episode is front and center again with the convictions and sentencing of four men who opened fire on innocent civilians. But why do they still proclaim they" did nothing wrong"? Give a lot of credit/blame to a culture of "tell the lie and apologize later (if you get caught)" that has been so pervasive since the dawn of the Bush 43 administration. Conservative media gas bags use that concept every day to dupe their loyal audiences.
Most people in my sphere of friendships have been pretty tough on Colin Powell for his speech at the UN General Assembly using bogus "evidence" to start the war. But he was duped by Cheney, the CIA director George Tenent, Stephen Hadley, Condi Rice, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and the shadowy figure from The Defense Policy Institute, Richard Pearle, who roamed the Pentagon advising the military to suit his own fortunes.
Another war criminal on that Team 43 was UC Berkeley law professor, John Yoo, who provided "legal" cover for Cheney's torture program including "extraordinary" rendition shipping terror suspects to countries where torture was legal.
Is this just the beginning?
3
An aggressive prosecutor advances his career, a law directed at the use of machine guns in the drug trade in America is twisted to apply in a military setting on another continent, four mercenaries pay a big price for actions committed in their youth while those in charge at Blackstone walk free, and America is hailed as a place where justice is done. Everything about this case is an abomination.
1
Including all the guys that were in the convoy with them that testified against them... uh huh... right.
1
Hold on. This was not a victimless crime. Your analysis completely ignores the unarmed civilians these people killed. Do they not have a right to due process in your opinion?
1
A "big price" for slaughtering 14 Iraqis civilians "in their youth" (sic)? Not sure about who is an abomination...
1
How is it that Fox News devotes endless hours to Benghazi and not this horror?
17
Well the Benghazi obsessive talking point is only there to counter Hillary, aka politics, that is all.
1
This reflects badly on the Bush administration. Benghazi makes the Obama administration look bad. Enough said.
"I am innocent". "I did nothing wrong". Are these guys psychotic? You wanna be a soldier, join the Army and fight by the rules, even when your commander-in-chief lies you and the whole country into an avoidable disaster. But swagger around a war zone out of uniform, grossly overpaid (compared to real soldiers) and armed to the teeth, and just open up on everyday people trying to survive our invasion and occupation, because you like shooting stuff and killing things and thought this was the perfect private-sector job for you? No.
And the lawyer. They weren't out to hurt people? Even for a profession that lives on lies and distortions, that's a whopper. Let's see. War zone, check. Heavily armed, check. Attitude, check. Running "security" for the world's most advanced military, check. Hammers in hand and nails everywhere you look, check. They were there precisely to hurt people, and be richly rewarded for it while believing themselves to be patriots serving a noble cause, and therefore immune from the usual consequences of mass murder.
That the Iraqis considered them more powerful and dangerous than Saddam Hussein says it all. Blackwater is an American stain.
Justice at long last.
And the lawyer. They weren't out to hurt people? Even for a profession that lives on lies and distortions, that's a whopper. Let's see. War zone, check. Heavily armed, check. Attitude, check. Running "security" for the world's most advanced military, check. Hammers in hand and nails everywhere you look, check. They were there precisely to hurt people, and be richly rewarded for it while believing themselves to be patriots serving a noble cause, and therefore immune from the usual consequences of mass murder.
That the Iraqis considered them more powerful and dangerous than Saddam Hussein says it all. Blackwater is an American stain.
Justice at long last.
17
Fight by the rules? The enemy doesn't fight by the rules, but you expect our troops to? LOL It's obvious you've never been to war. I think we need to bring back the draft and only draft wealthy liberals... I would only go to war with a lawyer.. Nothing was ever said when Iraqis killed blackwater troops and hung them from the bridge.. Libturds and thier fake outrage.. Hypocrites..
The merits of the murder case aside, the use of the machine gun charge really is beyond the pale. No security contractor in a warzone could do their job without such weapons, and moreover, carrying such weapons was part of their government contract. If they are going to be charged with that, then there are thousands more who need to be charged. I don't see the FBI and Justice going after those many, many thousands.
The charge is use of a machine gun in a violent crime. Are you saying that thousands and thousands of soldiers and mercenaries are committing violent crimes with machine guns?
These people were accused and found guilty of a horrific crime with plenty of material and witness evidence.
These dudes are also sacrificial lambs for Blackwater, then Xe Services and now Academi. They have gone through so many name changes that what was once Blackwater would be totally unrecognizable to 99.9% of the American public.
These people were accused and found guilty of a horrific crime with plenty of material and witness evidence.
These dudes are also sacrificial lambs for Blackwater, then Xe Services and now Academi. They have gone through so many name changes that what was once Blackwater would be totally unrecognizable to 99.9% of the American public.
1
"Why does it seem that high-level executives are not prosecuted in our society, and low-level people are the scapegoats?"
The answer is easy: low-level people allow the high-level executives to persuade them to vote for people who only look out for the high-level executives.
The harder question is why do the low-level people allow it?
The answer is easy: low-level people allow the high-level executives to persuade them to vote for people who only look out for the high-level executives.
The harder question is why do the low-level people allow it?
3
This is why hiring private mercenaries is a really bad idea. It is amazing they think they didn't do anything wrong considering this was a totally unnecessary war.
7
A long time coming! A first step. Now let's see Justice continue up the line to the top echelon of policy makers who wantonly started this senseless Mideast blood bath. We must at long last separate out supposed acts of 'patriotism' from acts of sheer brutality and inhumanity and in the process clearly define what it is to be a true American.
4
Yes, the American government made this happen so they would look like they are a responsible just nation. Yes, the four security guards are taking the wrap for the out-of-control Blackwater corporation. Yes, George W. Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, and Carl Rove should also be tried and sent to prison. But finally, yes, those four men deserve exactly what they got. And I wonder if they really know, deep in their soul, that their lives are over and a real hell is waiting for them, just over those prison walls.
2
grunts getting hung out to dry.
the machine gun charge is bogus.
In that part of the world you can operate an AK or RPG before you are 9, boys and girls alike.
Watch what happens when they crowd source their appeal money.
the machine gun charge is bogus.
In that part of the world you can operate an AK or RPG before you are 9, boys and girls alike.
Watch what happens when they crowd source their appeal money.
These men were not simply driving through Baghdad at the time of this incident. They were retreating from an ambush. They were in a state of heightened alert and were fearful for their lives (with good reason). Most of us still remember the graphic images of the Blackwater men who were mutilated, burned alive, then hung from a bridge like sides of beef in Fallujah. This sort of attack happened routinely against the Blackwater teams. 41 men from the company were slaughtered in Iraq. We can all argue about whether or not the US should have been there....but that issue was way above the paygrade of these young men. They were sent to do a job, they were attacked, they returned fire because they didn't want to end up like the guys in Fallujah (or the 37 others who were blown up or shot by "civilians" in Iraq).
1
There were guys in the same convoy who testified against these guys. That doesn't mean anything to you? Come on. With great power comes great responsibility.
1
These boys pulled the trigger ... but it was men like Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeldt, Wolfowitz et al who made the decision. Why are they not in prison, too?
12
Aside from signaling the dangers of privatized militaries, this story leaves me questioning the US government more than every before. If the state department did try to underpin the evidence used in the case this has long lasting complications; who was in charge of the coverup? are they still in power? An additional note is that this case was tried three times, the us constitution is supposed to prevent this, meaning these men may be released on the grounds of violating "double jeopardy". Understand that I have no intention of diminishing the horrors of such massacre; if these men are indeed guilty, then they deserve their sentences. However I wish we knew more about the details from the report surrounding the trial, as this entails that the US government is willing to hire potential psychopaths in the name of security. That frightens me even more than the massacre: it may become the first of many.
1
Leading the troops into battle is not how it works anymore, except in our imaginations. President Bush, Vice-President Cheney saw their approval ratings soar in public opinion polls when they fought wars ? at least at first when the wars were still new and magnificent. Never mind that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc.., fought their wars from the air-conditioned Oval and Pentagon offices. One result of this is that those making the decisions upon which the most lives hang are the least likely to see war death up close, or to have ever seen war or to suffer any consequences.
3
Since "Blackwater" is a person, shouldn't the company also be tried and put in jail... for a long time.
I'm just sayin', Supremes.
I'm just sayin', Supremes.
21
Blackwater no longer exists as a security company
Meanwhile Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, and Bush walk the streets free. They are the true war criminals.
12
Europe fully learned the drawbacks of mercenary soldiers during the Thirty Years War. The U.S. had to re-learn the same lesson.
2
And cram their cell full with the men and women who sent them there…Cheney, Bush, Wolfowitz, Rice.
They can tell war stories.
They can tell war stories.
7
Mercenaries are in the business of killing people so they would naturally think they are innocent. However, letting them go scot-free would be similar to exonerating Mafioso for murdering fellow drug dealers.
What did they say in "Apocalypse now?"...charging a guy with murder was like handing out speeding tickets in the Indy 500, or something along those lines? Not to say that these guys weren't involved in something criminal, but as others have pointed out, it's merely a smokescreen to keep more powerful people from ever bearing any responsibility. Disgraceful. Scapegoating right before our eyes.
2
This should mark the tragic end of the brief, ill-advised experiment of outsourcing military operations to independent contractors.
7
Yes. But it won't.
And Cheney?
15
These four are scapegoats. The real killers are Bush, Cheney, Rice and Rumsfeld who urged the nation to invade Iraq based on lies.
12
The defendants have no remorse. They claim it was justifiable to mow down a crowd of civilians because, well, War. Only a racist could excuse what they did. The prosecution was too timid and should have charged them all with capital murder under the War Crimes Act. Throw away the key.
9
Unfortunately, this is what happens when you substitute American soldiers who are constrained by a code of conduct and a chain of command for a bunch of highly paid mercenaries who are apparently answerable to no one. The kind of damage that these people are capable of doing is incalculable.
14
For me this is decision comes as a feather in the cap of the American society in general and its justice system in particular. I hope that this ruling gets broadcast by Aljazeera and media from the muslim nations in particular who have long railed the absence of law for americans. Justice did take long but it has been served and now it must be 'seen' to have been served. 4 people with no criminal past and serving to protect the troops did panic in a war torn city and attacked unarmed civilians. They have been jailed for lengthy terms.
Very few nations on the planet would have the audacity, will or the motivation to do the same to their own soldiers/ security contractors.
Very few nations on the planet would have the audacity, will or the motivation to do the same to their own soldiers/ security contractors.
3
They may have had no criminal past but there must have been a sense of impunity and misplaced empowerment created by their employers, to have enabled this massacre
1
It was for appearances only. The massacre at Nisar Square was so bad that something had to be done, especially as journalist's investigations pierced the white wash effort. Of course, the personnel at the bottom, as with the torture at Abu Ghraib, were the scapegoats. It would only be "a feather in the cap" and worthy of note by other nations if the criminals at the top are prosecuted. Otherwise, it is only one of the many facets of the Bush Administration "Great Grift of Iraq" that blew up and was exposed.
Good.
Now, let's put Blackwater's CEO's in jail, as well.
Blackwater was an expensive (to the US Taxpayer) part of Halliburton. Those CEO's should be questioned, and be held accountable too.
US policy basically created Saddam Hussein - a garden variety local thug, until we armed and trained his troops, giving endless buckets of money in the process. Now dead, Saddam's old Field Commanders lead ISIS.
We weren't in Iraq for freedom of speech, or equity for women, or any topic concerning Liberty or Respect. The phony Iraq "War" was only meant to make the World safe for Big Oil, and Defense Contractors.
These four men were only the worker bees. The head of this snake, and it's venom are still alive, and coiled. I say put Dick Cheney in Court, and question him about his role in all of this.
Now, let's put Blackwater's CEO's in jail, as well.
Blackwater was an expensive (to the US Taxpayer) part of Halliburton. Those CEO's should be questioned, and be held accountable too.
US policy basically created Saddam Hussein - a garden variety local thug, until we armed and trained his troops, giving endless buckets of money in the process. Now dead, Saddam's old Field Commanders lead ISIS.
We weren't in Iraq for freedom of speech, or equity for women, or any topic concerning Liberty or Respect. The phony Iraq "War" was only meant to make the World safe for Big Oil, and Defense Contractors.
These four men were only the worker bees. The head of this snake, and it's venom are still alive, and coiled. I say put Dick Cheney in Court, and question him about his role in all of this.
14
Very well said - I am very proud of this judgement and really impressed with this judge.
1
Why wasn't Blackwater a defendant?
8
That's rather astonishing, isn't it? Of course, we wouldn't want to interfere with their multi-billion dollar contracts with the US government, which are ongoing.
1
Blackwater may be a person as defined by the SCOTUS Citizen United decision, but like the 1% they are immune from prosecution. Money is power.
The vitriol against these contractors posted on here is mostly due to the ignorance of the average NY Times reader. The typical anti Bush and Cheney rhetoric is expected. However, these contractors have been victims of over zealous prosecutors!
The environment in Iraq was deadly unsafe. It was guerrilla warfare. These boys did their best.
Very easy to second guess their actions from a high rise in DC or behind a federal bench with a lifetime appointment guarded by armed security.
The U.S. DOJ and the the judge should all be ashamed of themselves.
The environment in Iraq was deadly unsafe. It was guerrilla warfare. These boys did their best.
Very easy to second guess their actions from a high rise in DC or behind a federal bench with a lifetime appointment guarded by armed security.
The U.S. DOJ and the the judge should all be ashamed of themselves.
2
What if it was your kid they killed?
1
It's just as easy to second guess the prosecutors, jury and judge from the comfort of your living room, without giving a thought to the victims who were not guerrillas but innocent Iraqi civilians. "These boys did their best"? You cannot be serious! These boys were highly trained, highly overpaid security contractors, one of them a former Army sniper, firing at random in the midst of a crowded intersection with utterly reckless disregard for human life.
1
How on earth can you say these men were victims, even in the fog of war? The murder of innocent civilians in this war is not unprecedented, but nevertheless should never be allowed to happen, no matter what the circumstances. We have used the excuse of war to slaughter untold thousands in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Yemen, but the war drags on, new jihadis are created, and nothing changes on the ground. These contractors should have never been used. Regular army/marine units should be used to protect our civilian/government people overseas in dangerous locales. They have the training and, it appears, the discipline to be at least a little less provoked in situations like Nisour. You can politicize this all you want, and Bush and Cheney certainly are guilty of going to war without real justification, but these killings were horrendous by any measure and these men are not innocent.
4
AMERICA REPENT!
Close Gitmo.
Raise the taxes necessary to pay for the wars' damage both here and abroad. Don't forget the victims, ours and theirs.
Teach the People:
No war is ever "won". No war will be "quick" or "easy".
We will not be seen as liberators, but bullies.
"When you embark on a journey of vengeance, first dig two holes."
Modern warfare cannot solve the problems humanity faces.
Close Gitmo.
Raise the taxes necessary to pay for the wars' damage both here and abroad. Don't forget the victims, ours and theirs.
Teach the People:
No war is ever "won". No war will be "quick" or "easy".
We will not be seen as liberators, but bullies.
"When you embark on a journey of vengeance, first dig two holes."
Modern warfare cannot solve the problems humanity faces.
10
An outcome markedly different from that in the prosecution of the even more heinous murders at Mai Lai. Perhaps that means we, as a society, have made progress toward being civilized. I wouldn't bet on it, though.
It will be interesting to see if hard-on-crime conservatives will shed tears for these criminals, arguing that "society did this to them."
There is some shame in these prosecutions in that it continues the pattern that architects of the larger war crime skate while peons get prosecuted. Cheney, Bush, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld should be on trial somewhere, probably the Hague. Someone on one of the Sunday TV gabfests should dare one of these criminals to travel to Europe.
One can only hope that civil litigation bankrupts Blackwater.
It will be interesting to see if hard-on-crime conservatives will shed tears for these criminals, arguing that "society did this to them."
There is some shame in these prosecutions in that it continues the pattern that architects of the larger war crime skate while peons get prosecuted. Cheney, Bush, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld should be on trial somewhere, probably the Hague. Someone on one of the Sunday TV gabfests should dare one of these criminals to travel to Europe.
One can only hope that civil litigation bankrupts Blackwater.
10
And when will there be justice for all the rest?
"Report Shows US Invasion, Occupation of Iraq Left 1 Million Dead"
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/30164-report-shows-us-invasion-occupa...
12
And when will hard-leftists who cite their favorite hard-left periodicals, gain a modicum of historicity and learn to control inherent willful intellectual dishonesty in service of their narrow ideological ends? That is, wrong as the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq was, it succeeded in toppling a true genocidal monster who unarguably killed more of his own people -- probably well over a half million, mostly Kurds and Shiites, and this excludes hundreds of thousands killed in the Iran-Iraq war -- in propping up his Shiite-suppressing Stalinist state. That's a far harder number by the way, than the number quoted by your ''sources" [sic], most of which are heavy-duty political advocates using analytic methods not vetted by historians or scientists.
But, again, the point is, you don't even know who the rest are that you purport to talk about. They are Kurds and Shiites by the hundreds of thousands killed by Saddam.
But, again, the point is, you don't even know who the rest are that you purport to talk about. They are Kurds and Shiites by the hundreds of thousands killed by Saddam.
As soon as you stop using petroleum-based products.
I thought these men were paid to kill innocent people.
4
George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Condoleeza arice and Colin Powell must all be exhaling that as culpable as they are for crime, someone else is doing the time.
8
What a joke. The actions of these four men does not even approach the heinous war crimes of the Bush-Cheney Regime and Obama Administration in our aggression and acts of terrorism against and torture of the Muslim people we are currently exterminating by aerial bombardment, cruise missiles, drone hellfire missiles and JSOC hit squads (now into our 14th year). Bush-Cheney were issued pardons for torture and denied justice for the millions of Muslims slaughtered.
153
You seem to have a sense of righteous grievance against all-things, any thing, US military and you tossed in all the uber sophisticated acronyms for full effect.
How about you have a nice hot cuppa tea and pursue chillex nirvana?
I served in Iraq. No, we should never should have invaded, and many are culpable on that count, including your likely loved impending nominee to succeed Pres. Obama, Hillary. She voted for the Iraq war, sending me and my kin to combat, and she didn't even read the National Intelligence Estimate on the whole affair before voting (Hill and her staff are electronically recorded as "absent", certified so, by the Senate authorities that held that e-doc for members to peruse). Hillary couldn't be bothered.
But your mile-wide broad brush of all things US military, seems a tad, oh, maybe extreme and excessive. Just as Bush-Cheny-Rummy were extreme, and excessive in pursuing their neocon dreams and adventures.
We need less Bush-Cheney-Rummy rightwingers running our country, and equally, we need fewer left-wingers like, , on the other side running this country.
We need more people with actual military experience who have been at risk in combat sending us to war, far more rarely, far more reluctantly.
And less arm-chair generals like yourself in leafy Hartford, or Bush-Cheney in their own little world, as neither of you have been there, your kids are not at risk, and you have far too many strong opinions and far too little experience.
How about you have a nice hot cuppa tea and pursue chillex nirvana?
I served in Iraq. No, we should never should have invaded, and many are culpable on that count, including your likely loved impending nominee to succeed Pres. Obama, Hillary. She voted for the Iraq war, sending me and my kin to combat, and she didn't even read the National Intelligence Estimate on the whole affair before voting (Hill and her staff are electronically recorded as "absent", certified so, by the Senate authorities that held that e-doc for members to peruse). Hillary couldn't be bothered.
But your mile-wide broad brush of all things US military, seems a tad, oh, maybe extreme and excessive. Just as Bush-Cheny-Rummy were extreme, and excessive in pursuing their neocon dreams and adventures.
We need less Bush-Cheney-Rummy rightwingers running our country, and equally, we need fewer left-wingers like, , on the other side running this country.
We need more people with actual military experience who have been at risk in combat sending us to war, far more rarely, far more reluctantly.
And less arm-chair generals like yourself in leafy Hartford, or Bush-Cheney in their own little world, as neither of you have been there, your kids are not at risk, and you have far too many strong opinions and far too little experience.
Well, you've got to start somewhere.
under any interpretation of US law; employers are held responsible for the acts of their employees
We have seen it in the papers; prisons run for profit, health costs out of control and now this. There are things you cannot privatize and hand them over to the private sector. Army - or whatever the GWB people want to call it - is for the government to run and not for profit, but for security.
154
Some institutions are far too important to turn over to the greed is good crowd, i.e., the military, health care, and education, to name a few.
A good reason not to vote men like GWB and Cheney into office. Oh, that's right they were selected by the Supreme Court of the United States.
A good reason not to vote men like GWB and Cheney into office. Oh, that's right they were selected by the Supreme Court of the United States.
2
How many innocent men, women, and children have we killed with drones? I bet more than 17.
27
Yes Jerry, more than 17. How many innocent men, women, and children have died in the Middle East last week that were not killed by America? I'd hazard the number to be at least 15,000. We are not the big killers in the Mideast, we're actually killing less innocent people than any major group in the area. I'm not saying that means we're angels, just that it's ridiculous to put America down without mentioning that every military group in the Mideast is a thousand times worse.
@Jerry S
Meaning what, exactly? That its the number of dead that determines guilt? That the manner of death determines culpability?
Meaning what, exactly? That its the number of dead that determines guilt? That the manner of death determines culpability?
It's okay if a government does it.
These guys thought they could get away with murder; Bush and the big Dick Cheney did!
194
If you're going to call out Bush and Cheney, you'll need to include Obama.
All those gunning for military use against Iran rather than diplomacy should heed what the Iraq war has confirmed - war is hell. Individuals become killers and killed. No end to the bloodshed in sight. Smarter to stay out and stay civil.
71
No one's "gunning for military use against Iran." A lot of folks are certain that if Iran gets nuclear weapons, the world will become a much more horrific place than it already is, and think that eventuality should be thwarted, by whatever means necessary including diplomacy. Many of the former think that the only diplomacy that has a chance will be very tough diplomacy, and that the announced "deal" was dead-on-arrival since it practically assures that Iran will get nuclear weapons, the only remaining question being, "When?".
To be honest, I was stunned when I read about these convictions, which I applaud. And, as a reader has already commented on, it is too bad they couldn't get the ring-leader, Erik Prince. Of course, to really drill down to the foundations of the "Iraq War Crime", you only have to look at the George W. Bush presidency.
311
Good! Now lets get Michael Mukasey, George W. Bush, John Yoo, Dick Cheney and Jay Bybee for torture and murder.
339
Please...let's not forget Wolfowitz. Oh wait...he's working for the latest Bush White House wannabe...
3
I thought conservatives supported the death penalty when it came to murder(s). Oh wait, it was "manslaughter." Guess I'm just a little bit confused.
p.s. One guy had the last name "Liberty"????? Cruel irony there!!!!!
p.s. One guy had the last name "Liberty"????? Cruel irony there!!!!!
37
Look at it this way, they certainly slaughtered a lot of men. Sgt Bales would be a little-girl-slaughterer and Lt Calley would be village-people-slaughterer. And since they are all American slaughterers, they are above local laws.
All four should have gotten life, ask the families of the 17 innocent dead what they think about it.
31
Ah, and of course you know all the details, because you were a witness to this event. You're also fully aware that all the 17 dead were innocent of any wrongdoing for their entire lives, and that none had ever fired a shot at an American. Yes, I think this omniscient comment from G is what our justice system should be based on.
1
With the BILLIONS we spend on our military each year I find it an ABOMINATION that we even consider PRIVATE MERCENARIES to perform "security" in a WAR ZONE. The whole concept escapes me. Perhaps if Eisenhower were still alive he might be able to clarify if this outrageous practice is part of the "military industrial complex" that he warned us all about during his farewell speech as President.
295
Despite the BILLIONS spent on defense, the Department of State and Department of Defense could not muster the resources to protect the Embassy personnel in Iraq, Israel, Afghanistan and other high risk posts. The bureaucracy simply couldn't accomplish the task in a cost or time efficient manner (sorry, but that is true whether you want to believe it or not). Mind you, this task was much more simple than doing something like, providing healthcare to entire nation.
1
@ManhattanWilliam
The 'concept', as you so aptly put it, is a consequence of the peculiarly Republican sleight-of-hand budgeting that says its OK for government to spend by borrowing, but not OK for government to tax for what we want government to do, in this case go to war against Iraq. Make sense? Of course not! But there was Rummie (Donald Rumsfeld), blithely declaring 'you go to war with the Army you've got' when soldiers in 2004 declared their vehicles unfit for purpose against IED's (can you imagine a Democratic Sec Def saying that and surviving the outcry?) That was the mindset that prevailed in 2002-3 as the Pentagon ramped up for a conflict of a size it hadn't expected to have to fight in the 21st century (never mind planning for an occupation). So, faced with his chiefs saying manpower was short, Rummie decided he could plug the gaps by hiring private contractors for security and supposedly non-combat duties, nevermind the operational and legal confusion that could result with such an arrangment.
The 'concept', as you so aptly put it, is a consequence of the peculiarly Republican sleight-of-hand budgeting that says its OK for government to spend by borrowing, but not OK for government to tax for what we want government to do, in this case go to war against Iraq. Make sense? Of course not! But there was Rummie (Donald Rumsfeld), blithely declaring 'you go to war with the Army you've got' when soldiers in 2004 declared their vehicles unfit for purpose against IED's (can you imagine a Democratic Sec Def saying that and surviving the outcry?) That was the mindset that prevailed in 2002-3 as the Pentagon ramped up for a conflict of a size it hadn't expected to have to fight in the 21st century (never mind planning for an occupation). So, faced with his chiefs saying manpower was short, Rummie decided he could plug the gaps by hiring private contractors for security and supposedly non-combat duties, nevermind the operational and legal confusion that could result with such an arrangment.
5
That was the Cheney/Rumsfeld insistence. That was part of the motivation for the Iraq invasion--stock dividends which are still giving.
1
It took 8 years to put these cowards in jail? The US justice system is a JOKE!!
34
But the biggest coward of them all sits in Wyoming with somebody else's heart. He should be jail.
1
@Deric Marquez
Only if you don't care about due process. Evidently, you've never heard the ancient aphorism "The wheels of justice turn slowly, but they grind exceedingly fine"--Sun Tzu
The modern equivalent is "Justice may be slow, but its inevitable".
Often its people who've never been wrongly accused of something that don't understand why due process is important and why it can sometimes be slow. When trying to prove your innocence you are very glad due process can be slow.
Only if you don't care about due process. Evidently, you've never heard the ancient aphorism "The wheels of justice turn slowly, but they grind exceedingly fine"--Sun Tzu
The modern equivalent is "Justice may be slow, but its inevitable".
Often its people who've never been wrongly accused of something that don't understand why due process is important and why it can sometimes be slow. When trying to prove your innocence you are very glad due process can be slow.
1
Ever heard of "justice delayed is justice denied"?
Too bad, too sad. Tragedy all around. Based on eyewitness testimony by Blackwater soldiers present at the scene, it appears these individuals over-reacted. At the very least, they did not appear to have been properly trained. They deserve to be punished.
Article reports that the sentencing sends a message to Iraq and elsewhere that justice will prevail even in combat but I hope it sends another important message to anyone who entertains the fantasy of being a soldier of fortune.
Mercenaries will not have the support of their employers nor the politicians who approve of their role in the future. There is no place for soldiers of fortune in America's service. It didn't help the Roman empire and it certainly hasn't helped the United States.
Article reports that the sentencing sends a message to Iraq and elsewhere that justice will prevail even in combat but I hope it sends another important message to anyone who entertains the fantasy of being a soldier of fortune.
Mercenaries will not have the support of their employers nor the politicians who approve of their role in the future. There is no place for soldiers of fortune in America's service. It didn't help the Roman empire and it certainly hasn't helped the United States.
38
Once again, a few individuals publicly tried and condemned, scapegoats seemingly sacrificed for the considered atonement for the real sins of the untouched high and mighty that put them out into the world and into situations they had no place in being. Whether they be private or public, hasn't this always been the way that those in power escape the fate due as a result of their actions?
28
Yes, I agree it's terrible the executives at Blackwater walk away with no charges or actions taken against them or their firm.
But let's NOT call these four "scapegoats." Scapegoats are, in the usual use of the word, people who are blamed for things they are innocent of committing. These four are NOT innocent!! They opened fire on hundreds of innocent Iraqi men, women and children, killing 17 of them! They knew better, or certainly should have known better, and deserve (in my opinion) greater punishment than they've received.
But let's NOT call these four "scapegoats." Scapegoats are, in the usual use of the word, people who are blamed for things they are innocent of committing. These four are NOT innocent!! They opened fire on hundreds of innocent Iraqi men, women and children, killing 17 of them! They knew better, or certainly should have known better, and deserve (in my opinion) greater punishment than they've received.
1
Until I see the architects who lied us into the debacle in Iraq perp-walked, tried, convicted and sent to prison for the rest of their days, there will be no justice, but I'm not going to hold my breath on that happening. And now the wingnuts are beating the drum for war with Iran per Bibi's wishes. If the last bunch had been tried for war crimes, perhaps the desire to start WWIII wouldn't be so strong.
219
This is an important powerful message not only to the world, but to ourselves. And while I fault these men, they in essence are the victims of an arrogant culture inculcated by Cheney/Bush et al, and facilitated by Eric Prince. That these other men walk free shows that while there was justice today, it was incomplete.
80
I'm very sorry for these men who were, doubtless, carried along by a "gung-ho" spirit of machismo, security, adventure, and who knows what else. But the real criminals--Bush, Cheney, Collin Powell, Rumsfeld, Yoo, et al.--are still free.
Has George Bush ever spoken about his responsibility? has he turned over a dime to support the thousands of troops who came home crippled in body and mind?
Do not expect justice--or accountability--in this country.
Has George Bush ever spoken about his responsibility? has he turned over a dime to support the thousands of troops who came home crippled in body and mind?
Do not expect justice--or accountability--in this country.
92
Obama would have to be charged as well being that he continued the war into 2014.
2
Don't feel sorry for them. They knew they were killing innocent civilians.
1
Those who wish that the Bush/Cheney gang be prosecuted for the Iraq war will have to keep on dreaming. The Republicans have the majority in the Senate and House of Congress. Just look at how they treated Netanyahu after he ordered the bombing of Gaza last summer. Do you think they (Republicans) would approve of punishing him? As they say when pigs fly.
28
I would go even further and guess that the right (nutjob) wing of the GOP in congress approves of the actions by Bush, Cheney, Rummy, et al. We are in a world of hurt if republicans run congress AND hold the white house. Expect more of this criminality in that case.
The Gaza bombing was defensive and was applauded by Egypt and the Gulf States. The only effective anti terrorist action which in contrast puts us to shame.
1
Just look at how they use government to persecute people for being Democrats!
They're investigating Hillary Clinton for Benghazi (for the FIFTH TIME!!!), yet won't even discuss the dozen terrorist attacks on U.S. embassies between 2001-2008, which killed at least sixty Americans! Apparently one attack killing four is all important, but twelve attacks killing sixty is of no interest (HINT: the difference is the dozen attacks occurred under a Republican Administration, while the one attack occurred under a Democrat).
Or the new investigation, over Hillary Clinton's usage of private email rather than a government email account while Secretary of State, and the fact she deleted thousands of emails, which she says were personal. Curiously, there seems to be no interest by Congress, or for that matter any mention in the media, of the fact that her two predecessors, Colin Powell and Condi Rice, have both admitted that they too used their private email, and not a government account. Worse, Powell admits when he left the office he deleted ALL emails, government or private (by contrast, Mrs. Clinton forwarded more than 50,000 official emails to the State Department for archiving). And Ms. Rice denies ever once sending a single email while she was at the State Department!! Seriously? Pardon if I'm doubtful that claim is the truth. But we'll never know, as the GOP Congress is only interested in the Democrat and has no interest in Republicans doing the same thing!
They're investigating Hillary Clinton for Benghazi (for the FIFTH TIME!!!), yet won't even discuss the dozen terrorist attacks on U.S. embassies between 2001-2008, which killed at least sixty Americans! Apparently one attack killing four is all important, but twelve attacks killing sixty is of no interest (HINT: the difference is the dozen attacks occurred under a Republican Administration, while the one attack occurred under a Democrat).
Or the new investigation, over Hillary Clinton's usage of private email rather than a government email account while Secretary of State, and the fact she deleted thousands of emails, which she says were personal. Curiously, there seems to be no interest by Congress, or for that matter any mention in the media, of the fact that her two predecessors, Colin Powell and Condi Rice, have both admitted that they too used their private email, and not a government account. Worse, Powell admits when he left the office he deleted ALL emails, government or private (by contrast, Mrs. Clinton forwarded more than 50,000 official emails to the State Department for archiving). And Ms. Rice denies ever once sending a single email while she was at the State Department!! Seriously? Pardon if I'm doubtful that claim is the truth. But we'll never know, as the GOP Congress is only interested in the Democrat and has no interest in Republicans doing the same thing!
4
After all this time - I'm glad to see justice rendered. I agree with M. Swatt that the executives and owners should face the consequences of these atrocious crimes.
20
Shameful that it happened, shameful that they won't admit it, shameful that "supporters" of theirs cannot bring themselves to value Iraqi lives on the same scale as these men's.
43
Justice is swerved...
14
Good! To bad they can't go after the heads of state and leadership,in B
Ackwater that allowed and encouraged this behavior.
Ackwater that allowed and encouraged this behavior.
15
As many others have said or will say, we chose to uncover, at best, a partial truth about what happened in Nisour Square (and elsewhere). Yes, the US judicial system "worked" in the sense that it successfully prosecuted and convicted the men who fired the bullets. We should find the fact that they don't think they did anything wrong deplorable, but unsurprising. It was an atrocity, but it is important that we never forget it did not occur in a vacuum, or that the unindicted, co-conspirators were nowhere near this or any other court room.
46
NYT: Please make sure George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and Don Rumsfeld get a link to this article.
149
They don't compatible operating systems with the rest of the universe, so to speak.
One country's security contractor is a better nation's mercenary or soldier of fortune.
15
Fall guys. The people responsible for the catastrophe of invading in the first place are the ones who really need to be jailed.
85
Amen!
small fishes go to jail, where's the big fish?
36
I believe he lives in Wyoming and owns a lot of stock in Halliburton.
7
You can see Dick Cheney on FOX. Bush is busy painting in Dallas. I don't know where Rumsfeld is but you can probably find him at the country club.
This prosecution is a success. The human rights abuses we committed in Vietnam have not been repeated on a similar scale. Where Americans did wrong, they were held accountable. That is justice.
6
We bombed cities full of people who never did one thing to us. And destroyed their nation, imprisoning and torturing their citizens. When we never had any right to be there at all. That's the bitter truth of it.
2
Instead should be Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice and Bush. These guys whatever happened are the fall guys for the ultimate criminal mass murderers and their DOD/CIA handlers.
142
This is welcome news and a tribute to a legal system battered by the likes of Bush, Cheney, and Gonzalez...
But how about some charged for the masterminds (who have consistently ridiculed the idea that war-crimes were committed, while remaining scot-free!): Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, etc...
But how about some charged for the masterminds (who have consistently ridiculed the idea that war-crimes were committed, while remaining scot-free!): Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, etc...
68
The whole reason for "military contractors" was to avoid responsibility for anything. The reason for events resulting from military contractors gone wrong was/is a total leadership failure.
Remember also, "mission accomplished". Yeah, right.
Remember also, "mission accomplished". Yeah, right.
66
The message here should be crystal clear: when legitimate powers of government are delegated to the private sector, bad things will inevitably occur. The private sector has, for example, repeatedly demonstrated its inability to properly staff military operations and correctional facilities.
This is not to say that these functions are always carried out perfectly by government employees; only that removal of profit as a byproduct, the imposition of an oath to protect and defend the constitution, and - in the case of the military - the uniform code of military justice help to light the path to correct behavior.
The tragedy in this case is that the convicted defendants still, apparently, do not understand that what they did was wrong, and why.
This is not to say that these functions are always carried out perfectly by government employees; only that removal of profit as a byproduct, the imposition of an oath to protect and defend the constitution, and - in the case of the military - the uniform code of military justice help to light the path to correct behavior.
The tragedy in this case is that the convicted defendants still, apparently, do not understand that what they did was wrong, and why.
234
The presidency of G.W. Bush is the gift that keeps on giving. He. his vice president, Richard Cheney, his Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice, his Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld, lied America into the snake pit of Iraq. In addition to the U.S. soldiers who lost their lives or who lived to despair of any happiness because they're blind, or deaf, or lame, or emotionally and psychologically damaged, these Rambo clones, feeling entitled, opened up on innocent civilians. These killers are going to jail, but what about the ones who sent them over there? There's still no justice.
582
Agree - so Blackwater changed their name and still have Federal contracts. It's despicable. Would love to see which politicians are on their payroll after retirement.
57
Not to mention what about Eric Prince -- he ran away to Abu Dhabi.
12
Totally agree
4
The real criminals are in our congress. They allowed this insanity of military contractors to flourish to this day. I don't know how enriching black water or any other group of mercenaries enhances our democracy or standing in the world.
516
"I don't know how enriching black water or any other group of mercenaries enhances our democracy or standing in the world." Unfortunately, Harry, it doesn't. Your great country, filled with excellent people, have been lead by a group that really doesn't represent you as citizens. Around the world, the people of the USA are misunderstood as goons. It's so far from the truth, but those in power don't seem to want to change that perception.
5
The dollars spent on security contracts has exploded under the current administration.
1
And that would include our esteemed senators from New York, Schumer and Clinton, who voted us into invading Iraq.
3
This report is a harsh and sad reminder of a grim episode in our history. As usual, the small fry are caught in the net. Historically, this has often been so. No one paid a price for the obliteration of an orphanage in Panama City (300+ people vaporized), of for the deaths of c. 3,000 other civilians there. GHWB's war!
49
Thank you for mentioning Panama. An American atrocity we seemed to have forgotten. Hundreds of innocent people killed so we could capture a single tinhorn crook.
12
The crime still remains that Eric Prince, the trust fund baby who founded Blackwater is not being held accountable for his role.
579
The trust fund alphabet starts with W.
9
as soon as stuff hit the fan. blackwater reorganized and rebrabded itself xe. erik prinz relocated to one of the gulf states as the invitation of its ruler to setup and trained ex-military as private army per nytimes.
some of them see considerable action in syria and ukraine reportely..
the beauty of it is complete deniability by all concerned.
some of them see considerable action in syria and ukraine reportely..
the beauty of it is complete deniability by all concerned.
Prince, when last seen, was constructing a mercenary army in the ME consisting of members right-wing Colombian death squads. I also recall that "Blackwatere" in its current form, had offerred a ship for anti-piracy ops in the Arabian SEa area.
This is what happens when the government outsourcres vital, traditional government services--lack of acountability (I'm refering to the bosses like the right-connected Prince).
I shuuder when I recall Bush' attempt to "privatize" social security before the 2008 version of the Great Train Robbery by the hedge funds, banks and their ilk. Further, the administrative costs and ease of use of Medicare militates against any attempt to privatize this excellent program.
The republican plan to gut government, thus making it less efficient and sending it into a death spiral is already rolling. IRS lacks the sheer numbers to collect the most basic taxres. No taxes, no services.
The root problem wityh the US is the lack of solidarity among the "races: and classes, which are exploited by both parties.
This is what happens when the government outsourcres vital, traditional government services--lack of acountability (I'm refering to the bosses like the right-connected Prince).
I shuuder when I recall Bush' attempt to "privatize" social security before the 2008 version of the Great Train Robbery by the hedge funds, banks and their ilk. Further, the administrative costs and ease of use of Medicare militates against any attempt to privatize this excellent program.
The republican plan to gut government, thus making it less efficient and sending it into a death spiral is already rolling. IRS lacks the sheer numbers to collect the most basic taxres. No taxes, no services.
The root problem wityh the US is the lack of solidarity among the "races: and classes, which are exploited by both parties.
1
How can you apply a law criminalizing use of machine guns to a war zone where everyone carries fully automatic weapons. That count, which has a 30 year minimum sentence, should be reversed on appeal. The trial judge should have dismissed it early on.
10
I am sure the judge took into consideration that aspect and found that the blackwater contractors used excessive force on the civilians. Conservatives will say anything to justify murder.
13
It matters when you machine gun innocent civilians.
13
The people who should really be going to the penitentiary for war crimes are Bush, Cheney, Rummy, Condi, and all of the other assorted "leadership" who had a direct hand in the totally barbaric Iraq invasion. They're still walking around free, trying to justify their actions ("mistakes were made") while they were directly responsible for hundreds of thousands of horrible & unnecessary deaths. The soldiers and contractors take their cue from above, and although they're far from blameless let's put the responsibility where it truly belongs. Actions result in consequences, but we've yet to have a true reckoning & accounting of the US's role in so many deaths/murders.
635
Yes, let's try them for war crimes and crimes against humanity. They all can have adjacent cells in the Hague!
19
Richard B. Cheney is a vile, horrid individual. he along w/ Bush, et al should be locked up for life!
12
In fairness, it was Ronald Reagan who said "Mistakes were made." But in general, yeah, agree with your point.
2
There were other such instances, particularly in Afghanistan. Also in Bagram, Afghanistan, a taxi driver arrested by mistake, was casually beaten to death. His family received not justice but blood money.
49
Use of a machine gun in committing a crime? Charge them with murder, charging a security contractor with using a machine gun in a war zone undermines the gravity of the crime and allows for a political interpretation of the conviction.
18
And Bush is still painting in his bathroom? and Cheney is free to defend his administration? and the rest of those who lied us into Iraq are walking wherever they wish?
There is no justice in the land.
There is no justice in the land.
489
Not only is there no justice, but some of the same people could possibly be advising a third Bush presidency...if we don't watch out.
11
Among those who lied this country into the murderous insanity of Iraq are some very prominent Democrats, starting with Ms. Rodham Clinton. When she voted for the war as a senator, she said she gave a lot of thought to it. I'm sure she did. She wasn't thinking about what her vote would mean for Iraq, or America. She was thinking about what her vote would mean for herself. She probably expected the war to be an easy victory for Bush and feared that she would be depicted as a wimp. In her statement in the Senate (the tape was played on Monday on Democracy Now), she claimed that her vote might get more of the UN Security Council members to vote for war, which she pretended to believe would make possible more inspections, not war. But she knew that Bush had assembled the army, which was not going to be pulled back. She also knew that this was a war to grab oil, and would go ahead no matter what. Thomas Friedman in The Times enthusiastically called it a "war of opportunity," in other words an absolutely classic imperialist war for control of resources. Secretary of State Colin Powell also let slip the real reason for the war when he said that the oil companies of nations that did not vote for war in the Security Council would not get any oil contracts from the new free and independent government that the US planned to install.
I know that the issue here is what the Blackwater mercenaries did. But let us not be deluded that this was just Bush and Cheney's doing.
I know that the issue here is what the Blackwater mercenaries did. But let us not be deluded that this was just Bush and Cheney's doing.
3
Blackwater, Inc. paid a fine and changed its name. Case closed. Win, win.
1
At least some justice for a few Iraqi families to come out of this god awful war of choice by the Bush/Cheney administration.
92
Yet another case where the lowlies get long prison terms whereas the Fat Cats go scot-free.
I expect, at least, that the Fat Cats influence the (new) administration, when the noise about this has died, to secure a pardon for these lowlies and also to provide them each with some compensation.
I expect, at least, that the Fat Cats influence the (new) administration, when the noise about this has died, to secure a pardon for these lowlies and also to provide them each with some compensation.
22
I don't trust those men received fair trials. The US Federal Government had a vested political interest in assuring convictions.
8
That would imply that the DOJ suborned the eyewitnesses to commit perjury.
4
Their own people testified against them. Love your flag, but so not you.
9
No, not really. Are you serious that these men did not know right from wrong. They, like big DICK Cheney and Mr. Bush knew right from wrong. Cheney should be rotting away in a federal prison.
19
No more "stupid wars," no more wars based on lies, no more wars with immunity for crimes. These individuals were rightly charged, but the greater justice will be no more civilians, military or contractors being put through a needless war of choice, no matter the potential profits.
69
While I think some measure of justice was achieved, let's see what else was wrong:
1) The Iraq War
2) Using mercenaries like Blackwater
3) War Profiteering by companies like Blackwater and individuals.
4) Killing innocent civilians.
5) Not prosecuting the people who pushed for the Iraq war - like Dick Cheney and the neocons despite evidence that Saddam had no weapon of mass destruction.
So what does this tell us? If you eliminate the "going to war" part - the rest won't happen.
1) The Iraq War
2) Using mercenaries like Blackwater
3) War Profiteering by companies like Blackwater and individuals.
4) Killing innocent civilians.
5) Not prosecuting the people who pushed for the Iraq war - like Dick Cheney and the neocons despite evidence that Saddam had no weapon of mass destruction.
So what does this tell us? If you eliminate the "going to war" part - the rest won't happen.
364
well...you may have to ask Hillary why she voted for the Iraq war in the first place, and why she knew from Bill that Saddam had WMD when he was in office?
1
As a Vietnam veteran I am appalled that the U.S. should have the need and necessity to hire these "cowboys" who acted as if they were the law in Iraq. Others deserve punishment, also.
814
It wasn't the "U.S." It was BUSH.
167
No it WAS the U.S. You can't hang this all on George Bush. The Congress and the vast majority of Americans supported this idiocy. If you come up with the response that we were "taken in", there were plenty of people who were ignored, even vilified, at the time, who recognized the folly the invasion of Iraq would turn out to be.
20
It was the U.S. Ask the many who stood up to protest our invasion and were systematically undercounted by our media, hated by their neighbors, labeled unpatriotic by much of the nation. Bush may have been selected in 2000, but he appears to have been fairly elected in 2004, after the invasion and before the mass of U.S. citizens finally understood what a lie they had been sold. Virtually every member of Congress supported this crime against humanity. It was the U.S. and it is still the U.S.
Sadly, the whole middle east has been "destabilized" - "radicalized" - united in anger - against the West and its coalition of the willing. How many millions of civilian deaths and outright genocidal acts will be the outcome of our arrogance?
It does no good to say never again. Not unless you commit to being one of the ones in the street protesting the next war. And then not unless every last one of us is in the street with you.
Sadly, the whole middle east has been "destabilized" - "radicalized" - united in anger - against the West and its coalition of the willing. How many millions of civilian deaths and outright genocidal acts will be the outcome of our arrogance?
It does no good to say never again. Not unless you commit to being one of the ones in the street protesting the next war. And then not unless every last one of us is in the street with you.
9
Where William Calley wore a uniform during the My Lai massacre, these men, performing a military task of some kind, were civilian contractors. Calley was treated lightly in the end, and given that context, the justice of these sentences is hard to believe.
3
bear in mind that the My Lai massacre was so long ago and the the model for this sort of crime and punishment has certainly changed. There is almost no comparison between the times in which both of these crimes were committed -- and we have to acknowledge that justice was not served in the conviction of Lt. Calley. All who participated should have been found guilty -- and the fact that he served only 3 years under house arrest is clearly a joke.
34
remember that the sentence given Lt. Calley wa shortened to a short time on house arrest by Richard Nixon. Read the New Yorker article by Seymore Hersch. An excellent recounting of what really happened at My Lai and other small hamlets in Vietnam and why Calley was, in essence, pardoned by President Nixon.
9
No, it's the treatment of Calley and Medina that is hard to understand, and indefensible.
9
I agree. They should have gotten life without parole. But then so should have Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rove.
706
Yes. The real criminals walk free.
74
There is no parole in the federal criminal code. Not for anyone. Life is, indeed, life.
5
Don't forget Wolfowitz, back for round 2 with Jeb.
22
What a farce. Obama won't left any military force in Iraq because the military won't have immunity from Iraqi for their conduct in combats but contractors are somehow supposed to behave differently in combat.
Fact is, if the ambush happened to an army or marine unit and the unit killed 17 Iraqis, nothing will happen to them becuase it was heat-of-the-battle. I don't like contractors but many in the government view contractors as mall-cops... don't shoot to kill attackers, just buy time for the civilian to escape and die if necessary becuase news at home won't report it.
Fact is, if the ambush happened to an army or marine unit and the unit killed 17 Iraqis, nothing will happen to them becuase it was heat-of-the-battle. I don't like contractors but many in the government view contractors as mall-cops... don't shoot to kill attackers, just buy time for the civilian to escape and die if necessary becuase news at home won't report it.
3
"Combat." That's what you call it. No one attacks them, they get into a traffic jam, and start shooting women and children. An old friend of mine worked for Blackwater there before this happened. The money was fat and easy. But he left. This is a man who had been to every world hot spot the U.S. was involved in from Vietnam to most recently kicking al Shabaab out of Mogadishu.
He's a professional soldier. He and Blackwater were oil and water.
He's a professional soldier. He and Blackwater were oil and water.
36
"if the ambush happened to an army or marine unit and the unit killed 17 Iraqis, nothing will happen to them becuase it was heat-of-the-battle"
Possibly so. And if the ambush had happened to the Blackwater guards, nothing would likely have happened to them either. But the evidence overwhelmingly shows that the "ambush" DIDN'T happen. There was no attack of any kind in Nisour Square that day. Just a group of trigger-happy rent-a-soldiers who opened fire on civilians in their cars.
Possibly so. And if the ambush had happened to the Blackwater guards, nothing would likely have happened to them either. But the evidence overwhelmingly shows that the "ambush" DIDN'T happen. There was no attack of any kind in Nisour Square that day. Just a group of trigger-happy rent-a-soldiers who opened fire on civilians in their cars.
62
What attackers and what ambush are you referring to? There were none.
11
Much should be made of these convictions to the families of the victims. At least some justice is being done in this country. Not nearly enough, but some. I wish they had all received life sentences, without parole. It's just hard to believe any of them still want us to think they did nothing wrong. That expression alone tells us about the mentality of these animals.
135
Remember that German soldiers were not prosecuted for war crimes in Nuremberg, but only their leaders.
1
So, so sad in all respects. Outsourcing is a risky, dangerous practice. It places on an external entity the responsibility to make decisions on your behalf, where you have little or no control over their judgment or quality. It is never a good idea. Period. Never relinquish control to an outside entity.
166
Suzin is right. And what follows from what she says is that we should re-institute the draft. We citizens of a democracy should not hire mercenaries to do dirty work we are unwilling to do ourselves.
20
E fan: we SHOULD reinstitute the draft, but not just for the reason you cite. It should also be done in the names of simple fairness, social justice, and service to our nation. It's shameful that the children of the (former) middle class and of the wealthy and privileged do not have to serve in the U.S. military or some other form of community service? Caving in to the demands of the anti-draft movement in the wake of the Vietnam war was a huge public policy mistake. The warmongers in Washington, DC, might not be so eager to throw around our nation's military might if their sons and daughters had to get down in the dirt to defend our nation.
11
The military Chiefs of Staff do not want a return to the draft. Those who believe in it should read a report by Col. Robert D. Heinl (Google him) in the Armed Forces Journal from July 1971. Col. Heinl complained of "combat refusals," "search and evade missions," "fraggings (the murder of officers and senior non-coms)," rampant drug abuse, and numerous racial incidents, among other ills of the Vietnam Draft Army. While the burden is not widely shared, the Armed Forces function significantly far better with people who are motivated to serve, than unwilling, unmotivated conscripts.
2
Blackwater was a patriots for profit mercenary force, the privatization of our own military - the kind of private, unregulated business that the right wing is so fond of. But the men who hired and empowered these mercenaries still appear on Fox News to drum up more war and more profit for Halliburton, etc. Yeah, I'm talking about you, Dick Cheney.
985
In fact, Blackwater was a sleepy little shooting range until after the bombing of the USS Cole. Nearly all of Blackwater's growth came at the request of the US government. It provided a needed service during a time our government required it. The contracts that Blackwater once held are all now much larger under the current administration.
2
Why don't you move to Iraq and see how safe you are?
If you are Christian or a Jew you will be dead in less than a year~!
Fact.
If you are Christian or a Jew you will be dead in less than a year~!
Fact.
You said it. And I still wouldn't mind seeing Henry Kissinger brought on war crimes charges.
6
I've often wondered if the training of an extra-legal mercenary force was not an intentional by-product of the Neocon Iraq Debacle.
As I see it these young men were not "serving their country," but were trigger-happy cowboy soldiers-of-fortune.
I have no doubt that many of them are serving on police forces across our nation. Maybe the Times could look into that for us?
As I see it these young men were not "serving their country," but were trigger-happy cowboy soldiers-of-fortune.
I have no doubt that many of them are serving on police forces across our nation. Maybe the Times could look into that for us?
454
The US pays mercenaries for war duties worldwide. It certainly isn;t cheap, as these individuals earn 6 figure incomes. The government out-sources this sort of nastiness to dodge accountability. As we are all too aware, the promised "most transparent administration in history" is not.
I would like to see an extensive report on US military involvement worldwide, with an emphasis on mercenaries. The ridiculous US Embassy in Baghdad, a horror out of one of the Ministries in "1984" is packed with these overpaid gunmen. This is another subject on a long list that I would like to see addressed on a Wilileaks or Snowden doc release.
I would like to see an extensive report on US military involvement worldwide, with an emphasis on mercenaries. The ridiculous US Embassy in Baghdad, a horror out of one of the Ministries in "1984" is packed with these overpaid gunmen. This is another subject on a long list that I would like to see addressed on a Wilileaks or Snowden doc release.
35
Blackwater was not a by-product of the Iraq war (started 2003). The war was a by-product of the existence of Blackwater (started 1997).
14
great point. definitely worth another investigation.
5
I'd like to just make one discrepancy clear on this. There's no question really that these guards committed murder, albeit in a war zone and under heavy pressure. They got shot at all the time by people in Iraq so it's understandable that they'd be jumpy, still these killings were extralegal and they deserve punishment.
However, this is rather hyperbolic: "The shooting left 17 people dead and was a gruesome nadir in the war in Iraq". In reality, 17 people dead was every day in Iraq from about 2003 until now. One of the many real gruesome nadirs in the war in Iraq was a couple of weeks ago, when the Daesh executed 1,700 Iraqi air force cadets and buried them in mass graves.
My point is, in the entirety of the Iraq war, this one event was completely unremarkable except for the fact it was committed by American mercenaries. We should be ashamed that they acted like this, but Iraqis have no cause to complain, because it's pretty clear America never got as brutal in Iraq as Iraqis have been on a constant basis.
However, this is rather hyperbolic: "The shooting left 17 people dead and was a gruesome nadir in the war in Iraq". In reality, 17 people dead was every day in Iraq from about 2003 until now. One of the many real gruesome nadirs in the war in Iraq was a couple of weeks ago, when the Daesh executed 1,700 Iraqi air force cadets and buried them in mass graves.
My point is, in the entirety of the Iraq war, this one event was completely unremarkable except for the fact it was committed by American mercenaries. We should be ashamed that they acted like this, but Iraqis have no cause to complain, because it's pretty clear America never got as brutal in Iraq as Iraqis have been on a constant basis.
29
Except that all of those people--the 17 and the 1700--would not have died as victims of murder had we not invaded Iraq under false pretense.
217
Wow.
Reach all you want. You’re still going to fall way short.
Reach all you want. You’re still going to fall way short.
40
To DanStackhouse
When we hold ourselves to the low bar standards of our enemies then we have truly lost our souls and our way.
When we hold ourselves to the low bar standards of our enemies then we have truly lost our souls and our way.
84
Is it really just that only the low-level contractors were prosecuted? What about the heads of Blackwater? Why does it seem that high-level executives are not prosecuted in our society, and low-level people are the scapegoats? This is just a redux of the justice meted out to a tiny few wall street players in the wake of the financial crisis.
960
My thoughts precisely. Choose the industry and you will find the same.
21
Well, it has a lot to do with... evidence and stuff like that. I don't think the heads of Blackwater ordered these guys to kill a bunch of civilians. Of course, if you have proof to the contrary, I'm sure the justice department would return your calls.
14
I agree that as usual the low level people are prosecuted--as at Abu Ghraib. The question to ask is how and who decided to privatise the war. Are you aware that at one time we had 250,000 mercenaries there, more than the number of troops. Remember how this 3 Trillion dollar war was being done on the cheap. Hiring out the war was just another clever book-keeping stunt by the Bush people. Jeb Bush, it's said has dyslexia. Wonder how he is with numbers.
94
Beating the crap out of anyone that looks like they may one day want to fight you isn't defense. Launching drones to this day on foreign soil that kill innocent people isn't defense. Giving weapons to people on foreign soil simply because they currently support a cause that "benefits" "us" is not defense. Talking to fellow foreign policy makers about how we plan to put specific people in another country's office isn't defense despite us denying a recording of it to a room full of journalists. We were past the point of ridiculousness decades ago. Of course that hasn't stopped us, it didn't stop us from engaging in three simultaneous wars abroad not five years ago, and it still isn't stopping us right now.