Grass didn't hide his past. He avoided mentioning some things, but few people talk about what they are not proud of.
2
Mr. Grass understood the emerging post war European Marxian society, he proved it by convincing the ignorant that guarding a German antiaircraft battery was a relatively innocent endeavor.
Do I demand perfection from a writer? The Platonic ideal is fused into modern Western society in a crude and simplistic way. We see this in whiter than white politicians and public figures. So what's interesting about them? Anything?
Life is complex and the life of an artist, a composer, or a writer would be suspect if it didn't contain the coarse grit against which human greatness can be defined.
No, Günter Grass is not a hero of mine. I've never read him and what I've found of his social moralism feels tedious going. However I have little sympathy for those obsessed with 'politically correct' man. According to whose rules?
What words of wisdom would you get from such a man?
Warts and all for me.
Plato, of course, had a low opinion of the writers of his time, with good reason.
Life is complex and the life of an artist, a composer, or a writer would be suspect if it didn't contain the coarse grit against which human greatness can be defined.
No, Günter Grass is not a hero of mine. I've never read him and what I've found of his social moralism feels tedious going. However I have little sympathy for those obsessed with 'politically correct' man. According to whose rules?
What words of wisdom would you get from such a man?
Warts and all for me.
Plato, of course, had a low opinion of the writers of his time, with good reason.
3
Nobody criticized Grass for having been an SS member at age 16. He was criticized for having lectured other public figures for decades for the crime of not disclosing their involvement with the Nazi regime. He demanded full and open reports from everyone else and was very, very vocal when some people did not deliver or when their Nazi past was discovered after they tried to hide it. The technical term for this is hypocrite.
Besides, he was wrong on just about any political issue he ever uttered an opinion about, at least since the 1980s.
But the Tin Drum is a masterpiece for the ages. No doubt about it.
Besides, he was wrong on just about any political issue he ever uttered an opinion about, at least since the 1980s.
But the Tin Drum is a masterpiece for the ages. No doubt about it.
3
Mr. Kinzer - Grass was engaged to "risk more democracy" in Germany together with Willy Brandt.
What his nazi-past is concerned, let me please add one more thing to the many thoughful things you wrote and other commentators mentioned: It seems wrong to state, that Grass "revealed his Nazi past himself" - meaning he did so much too late.
To say so is misleading, because Grass - from the very beginning of his public appearence on - never ever let any doubt - not the slightest doubt, that he had been a Nazi since he could remember thinkig - and a tough one, even as a kid.
What he publicly spoke about late in life, was his membership in the SS - which was much less, than many poeple nowadys - even in your columns, think of it to be. It wasn't but a formal connection with a terrible name that happened to a teenager in fascist war-time. That was about it.
SS-membership alone by the year of 1944 meant nothing but this.
Therefor, Grass was in a dilemma: Because defending himself would have meant, to argue against the horrors, that are to be connected with the SS - in mentioning, that not all members of the SS committed those terrible crimes.
Time had not been ripe to make those simple differentiation.
If I read the comments here, I get the idea, that this might (have) change(d).
What his nazi-past is concerned, let me please add one more thing to the many thoughful things you wrote and other commentators mentioned: It seems wrong to state, that Grass "revealed his Nazi past himself" - meaning he did so much too late.
To say so is misleading, because Grass - from the very beginning of his public appearence on - never ever let any doubt - not the slightest doubt, that he had been a Nazi since he could remember thinkig - and a tough one, even as a kid.
What he publicly spoke about late in life, was his membership in the SS - which was much less, than many poeple nowadys - even in your columns, think of it to be. It wasn't but a formal connection with a terrible name that happened to a teenager in fascist war-time. That was about it.
SS-membership alone by the year of 1944 meant nothing but this.
Therefor, Grass was in a dilemma: Because defending himself would have meant, to argue against the horrors, that are to be connected with the SS - in mentioning, that not all members of the SS committed those terrible crimes.
Time had not been ripe to make those simple differentiation.
If I read the comments here, I get the idea, that this might (have) change(d).
5
It's a disgrace that the NYTimes did not mention the great Guenter Grass translators Breon Mitchell, Krishna Winston, Michael Henry Heim, without whose linguistic gifts and expertise these works would not be accessible to millions of readers. Never take a translator for granted! Never underestimate the immense contribution of a translator!
7
Stephen Kinzer captures many facets of the complex personality of Günter Grass.
As a young coop student at Sender Freies Berlin (SFB), ARD public radio and television service for West Berlin, I studied and met Günter Grass who was selfless, ruthlessly critical of Germany's post-war taboos and the East-West bipolar world. He was also appalled about his country's focus on productivity and physical over human capital. At the personal level, he was respectful and warm, a sort of a blend between Jean-Paul Sartre and Albert Camus.
I was horrified when I learned that Günter Grass lacked the courage to clear his own past earlier, especially since he was drafted into the Wehrmacht by mandatory conscription as a young adult. Both Heinrich Boll and Herbert von Karayan reconciled with theirs and became icons.
Although Grass was for Willy Brandt's rapprochement with East Germany (Ostpolitik), his opposition to German reunification was regretful, considering the human-rights abuses of the GDR Secret Police (Stasi), among others.
The literary work of Gunter Grass will survive his human failings.
As a young coop student at Sender Freies Berlin (SFB), ARD public radio and television service for West Berlin, I studied and met Günter Grass who was selfless, ruthlessly critical of Germany's post-war taboos and the East-West bipolar world. He was also appalled about his country's focus on productivity and physical over human capital. At the personal level, he was respectful and warm, a sort of a blend between Jean-Paul Sartre and Albert Camus.
I was horrified when I learned that Günter Grass lacked the courage to clear his own past earlier, especially since he was drafted into the Wehrmacht by mandatory conscription as a young adult. Both Heinrich Boll and Herbert von Karayan reconciled with theirs and became icons.
Although Grass was for Willy Brandt's rapprochement with East Germany (Ostpolitik), his opposition to German reunification was regretful, considering the human-rights abuses of the GDR Secret Police (Stasi), among others.
The literary work of Gunter Grass will survive his human failings.
3
Mr Grass was was really good. It has been many years since i read one of his books , but I'll read one soon. One of my strangest experiences in life was reading The Flounder around the time it came out in the mid 70's. At the time I was a metallurgy student at OSU in Columbus. I was either studying physical cemistry or chemical metallurgy and I believe The Flounder had a lot to do with the life of Benjamin Thompson - Count Rumsford. And, that is what my course had a lot to do with - thermodynamics The main charactor in the story had the same last name as my profesor. Things were just nuts, but I loved it.
1
Grass was not conscripted. He had to serve, yes, but he volunteered for military duty rather than carry a shovel. When he discovered the submariners were no longer accepting recruits, he chose the SS.
Does that take away from his work? No. The Tin Drum is still an exceptional work.
Does it tarnish his image? Most certainly. He spent his life demanding all to come clean, but chose not to do so himself. He castigated colleagues and public figures he disliked for their associations with the NSDAP, but kept silent about his own participation, however inconsequential it might have been.
Does that take away from his work? No. The Tin Drum is still an exceptional work.
Does it tarnish his image? Most certainly. He spent his life demanding all to come clean, but chose not to do so himself. He castigated colleagues and public figures he disliked for their associations with the NSDAP, but kept silent about his own participation, however inconsequential it might have been.
2
I think I understand why Mr. Grass held back from telling the truth about his Nazi youth. But what I don't understand is why he looked to others to own up to this?
2
He had the courage to admit he served in the Waffen-SS. Let's be certain that his membership in this notorious group should not and does not certify that he did the unspeakable acts associated with the SS.
For context, the Waffen-SS was the military combat arm of the SS. These men (both volunteers and conscripts) served on the frontlines alongside the German Army. Some 60% of the Waffen-SS was NOT German born. There were many foreign SS including Dutch, British, French, Indians, Turks, Ukrainian, and so on. Many joined out of nationalistic fervor or because of anti-communist ideals. The Waffen-SS did commit atrocities, most famously to Americans for the Malmedy Massacre (still being debated if this was pre-meditated), but many combat units committed atrocities. The Waffen-SS were not concentration camp guards or the death squads. These were the SS-Totenkopfverbände and Einsatzgruppen respectively.
In no way am I protecting the brutality of the SS. What that paramilitary arm of the Nazi party did can never be excused, but let's be careful with attributing Günter Grass with something bad because of the organization he was a part of.
For context, the Waffen-SS was the military combat arm of the SS. These men (both volunteers and conscripts) served on the frontlines alongside the German Army. Some 60% of the Waffen-SS was NOT German born. There were many foreign SS including Dutch, British, French, Indians, Turks, Ukrainian, and so on. Many joined out of nationalistic fervor or because of anti-communist ideals. The Waffen-SS did commit atrocities, most famously to Americans for the Malmedy Massacre (still being debated if this was pre-meditated), but many combat units committed atrocities. The Waffen-SS were not concentration camp guards or the death squads. These were the SS-Totenkopfverbände and Einsatzgruppen respectively.
In no way am I protecting the brutality of the SS. What that paramilitary arm of the Nazi party did can never be excused, but let's be careful with attributing Günter Grass with something bad because of the organization he was a part of.
5
It is time that the New York Times judge artists of their art and not whether what they were saying about Israel.
5
It was a cold January morning 40 years ago that I responded to an invitation from my good friend, Prof. P. Lal, who single-handedly ran the Writers’ Workshop, Calcutta, to attend his monthly poetry symposium: the once-in-a-lifetime event that winter season was the special guest – and provocateur – Gunter Grass, the German novelist/poet/dramatist. Herr Grass had not arrived at the appointed time of ten a.m. that Sunday, but the poetry reading was called to order and some of those in attendance read out their poems to sounds of appreciation.
Eventually, the honored guest turned up – a burly gentleman with long hair and a walrus moustache – and seated himself without any formality midst the audience.
A few more poems were read out – sweet and mellifluous – about Nature’s fruits and flowers, etc. etc. And then, in sheer exasperation, I got up and asked Herr Grass if he would like to say something…. My word! He had a lot to say – bluntly and forcefully!
He said, to wit, that he’d read about the City’s woeful statistics on poverty, corruption and squalor, but that shock of the people’s suffering had been compounded this morning by the poetry reading session, which was completely divorced from the surrounding social context and its brutal reality.
He spoke quite dispassionately, but his words stunned the audience of would-be Bengali poets and they objected vociferously.
Now that he's left us earthlings behind, may his rich and vibrant literature be his abiding legacy to us all.
Eventually, the honored guest turned up – a burly gentleman with long hair and a walrus moustache – and seated himself without any formality midst the audience.
A few more poems were read out – sweet and mellifluous – about Nature’s fruits and flowers, etc. etc. And then, in sheer exasperation, I got up and asked Herr Grass if he would like to say something…. My word! He had a lot to say – bluntly and forcefully!
He said, to wit, that he’d read about the City’s woeful statistics on poverty, corruption and squalor, but that shock of the people’s suffering had been compounded this morning by the poetry reading session, which was completely divorced from the surrounding social context and its brutal reality.
He spoke quite dispassionately, but his words stunned the audience of would-be Bengali poets and they objected vociferously.
Now that he's left us earthlings behind, may his rich and vibrant literature be his abiding legacy to us all.
9
The NYT presents a balanced and judicious account of Günter Grass' contested life. He will forever remain the highly imaginative and creative author or The Tin Drum and Cat and Mouse, narratives that changed the literary scene overnight and that will remain classics. I taught the Tin Drum for many a year to generations of students with unflagging interest and enthusiasm. Oskar Matzerath, the protagonist of the novel, accepts responsibility for a murder he did not commit and writes his memoirs while in prison. A literary reflection (if not expiation of) perhaps on Grass' own abiding sense of guilt at concealing his membership in the Waffen SS? Oskar's diminutive stature as suggesting that Grass too did not really fit in? Although he committed no atrocities, Grass needed atonement, as he later averred. By acknowledging later in life his membership in the SS, he consciously opened himself to derision. A faulty human being? Who isn't? Author of truly enduring works of literature? How many of us can claim that?!
7
Point 1. Gunter Grass was barely 17 and a half when the War In Europe ended. Scientific studies demonstrating that the mental capacities of minors under 18 are not fully formed, which particularly undermines their ability to reach mature judgments. (The U.S. Supreme Court relied in part on these studies in holding the death penalty for those under18 is cruel and unusual punishment violating the Constitution.)
The Nazi propaganda that prevailed during all of Grass's school years and the desperate German war effort from 1943 to May, 1945, which included intensive propaganda aimed at young males conscripted to fight to the last, furnishes the context in which this teenager joined the SS. There is not a shred of evidence that Grass was complicit in any atrocities.
Grass's membership in the SS as a teenager ought not to affect judgment of Grass as either an author or a man.
The Nazi propaganda that prevailed during all of Grass's school years and the desperate German war effort from 1943 to May, 1945, which included intensive propaganda aimed at young males conscripted to fight to the last, furnishes the context in which this teenager joined the SS. There is not a shred of evidence that Grass was complicit in any atrocities.
Grass's membership in the SS as a teenager ought not to affect judgment of Grass as either an author or a man.
6
Did the writer actually read any of Grass' books? I see no evidence of it in the deprecating remarks about Grass. Shame on you for failing to recognize his great literary talent and moral uprightness! He is one of four great German language writers of the 20th century: Kafka, Mann, Brecht and Grass His moral integrity is, in my opinion also without blemish: he spent a lifetime to denounce Nazi tyranny and those who followed it. Can you name anyone else who has given such a powerful voice to the regrets for the sins of an 18-year old?
7
Günter Grass was five years old when the Nazis took power. Life growing up in Danzig mirrored metropolitan Germany and he never knew another.
Pre-war German kids saw that world through a prism far different from ours. They were taught and many came to believe that Hitler was their Savior. Not only was he restoring Germany to its rightful place in Europe, he was creating a new order in Europe for their benefit. In this New Order racial purity mattered most because Germans were descended from Aryans, a superior race. That superiority was destiny. Germans of pure Aryan blood would rule the world, but only after they developed The Will to subjugate all the other inferior races that surrounded them.
German kids read and heard this from their teachers, parents, close relatives and other adults every day, especially from authority figured they respected and obeyed. So, of course, by 1944 sixteen year-old Günter Grass from Danzig was a "convinced National Socialist". Josef Goebbels and his Propaganda Ministry were very good at indoctrination. We know how it turned out, but ours is a false perspective honed by hindsight and horrific testimony buttressed by Nazi-era documents. They had no such wisdom going in. They saw it in real time after a trap door opened and propelled them into the Pit of Hell itself.
I think Grass' problem was his inability to reconcile "could" with "should" triggered by the shock of encountering the same kinds of lies and betrayals of that world in ours.
Pre-war German kids saw that world through a prism far different from ours. They were taught and many came to believe that Hitler was their Savior. Not only was he restoring Germany to its rightful place in Europe, he was creating a new order in Europe for their benefit. In this New Order racial purity mattered most because Germans were descended from Aryans, a superior race. That superiority was destiny. Germans of pure Aryan blood would rule the world, but only after they developed The Will to subjugate all the other inferior races that surrounded them.
German kids read and heard this from their teachers, parents, close relatives and other adults every day, especially from authority figured they respected and obeyed. So, of course, by 1944 sixteen year-old Günter Grass from Danzig was a "convinced National Socialist". Josef Goebbels and his Propaganda Ministry were very good at indoctrination. We know how it turned out, but ours is a false perspective honed by hindsight and horrific testimony buttressed by Nazi-era documents. They had no such wisdom going in. They saw it in real time after a trap door opened and propelled them into the Pit of Hell itself.
I think Grass' problem was his inability to reconcile "could" with "should" triggered by the shock of encountering the same kinds of lies and betrayals of that world in ours.
8
Reading this wonderful review of Grass's complex life and work, as well as the many erudite and compassionate reader comments, reminds me what a treasure we have in the NYTimes.
I grew up in Germany, son of parents born in 1926 and 1928 respectively. While their war time experiences paralleled those of Grass, they took a very different path after the war, joining the religious revival of the 1950's, and deeply disliking Grass' work and politics.
Together they represent the dominant forces that shaped today's Germany, still torn between self-loathing and pride, support for Israel and torment over its oppression of Palestinians, unease over new immigration and commitment to being an enlightened world citizen.
If Germany is to maintain its national humility and the commitment to peace that has served it so well over the last 50 years, it will continue to need people like Gunther Grass, who have the courage for national self-criticism.
Thank you Gunther.
I grew up in Germany, son of parents born in 1926 and 1928 respectively. While their war time experiences paralleled those of Grass, they took a very different path after the war, joining the religious revival of the 1950's, and deeply disliking Grass' work and politics.
Together they represent the dominant forces that shaped today's Germany, still torn between self-loathing and pride, support for Israel and torment over its oppression of Palestinians, unease over new immigration and commitment to being an enlightened world citizen.
If Germany is to maintain its national humility and the commitment to peace that has served it so well over the last 50 years, it will continue to need people like Gunther Grass, who have the courage for national self-criticism.
Thank you Gunther.
8
“I was a pushover for the prettified black-and-white ‘truth’ they served up.” As are millions today.
5
Sure, we can separate the work from the man and his flaws. But still, I had little sympathy for him when his hypocrisy was revealed. He showed genuine mildness in excusing his own decades of silence - rarely, if ever, did he cut any of his adversaries any such charitable slack. He reminded one of those conservative politicians and fundamentalist preachers who so publicly and strongly condemn homosexuality, only to have it revealed that they themselves have private "issues" with their sexual orientation. Grass always had a finger raised, wagging it at any and all who disagreed with his views. So it came as no surprise that, when his own dirty secret came out, his adversaries were not going to be very charitable towards him.
4
One of many comments defending Grass starts: "Although the article is not inaccurate, it focuses too much in his life and not in his work."
Actually it is much worse. The article is inaccurate in many ways. Grass did not ‘join Waffen-SS”, he was conscripted into it (a month after his 17th birthday!). “He revealed his Nazi past himself” is another misrepresentation. He did not have any Nazi past (beyond Hitlerjugend which was practically mandatory at his age); Mr. Kinzer does not understand (or pretends not to) a difference between Waffen-SS and SS. By the end of the war anybody could have been called into these military units.
Strange and very biased obituary.
Actually it is much worse. The article is inaccurate in many ways. Grass did not ‘join Waffen-SS”, he was conscripted into it (a month after his 17th birthday!). “He revealed his Nazi past himself” is another misrepresentation. He did not have any Nazi past (beyond Hitlerjugend which was practically mandatory at his age); Mr. Kinzer does not understand (or pretends not to) a difference between Waffen-SS and SS. By the end of the war anybody could have been called into these military units.
Strange and very biased obituary.
7
I am sure Herr Grass was ashamed and harbored guilt of his National Socialist past. Certainly it was not something he would go around boasting about. Instead he turned to literature to work out his issues. I am sure 30-40 years from now, many Americans will experience similar regret, shame, and guilt , and they hide the fact they supported Obama and possibly Hillary Clinton, as it will be just too embarrassing to admit. Cheers!
1
My family.two sisters.mother and father arrived on the Wm O Cranford farm on RT # 1 Spring Hill .TN. We were refugees and arrived in May. 1952. We did not worry about Herr Grass;We were thankful to the US tbat we were alive- no longer starving and a chance to live a life without fear and hunger of WW2.
HELMUT GUSTAV KRAMER
(formerly of SPRING HILL,TENNESSEE
HELMUT GUSTAV KRAMER
(formerly of SPRING HILL,TENNESSEE
3
We shouldn't blame Kinzer for leading with the most ironic point; that's what newspapers do. As for Grass' service in the SS, would the Tin Drum and other books have been written, let alone published, had he first declared himself to be a former storm trooper?
1
It might be argued that, perhaps not The Tin Drum, but some other magnificent and even deeper work might have resulted if Grass had honestly owned up to it early on. Just think of novel from his great artistic imagination that might documented the path of an erstwhile 17-year-old true believer into a young adult as the horror and shame of the regime he had believed in became revealed. As to being published, why not? West Germany at the time had all sorts of openly former Nazis serving in the Adenauer cabinet, in the courts, schools and universities. A Waffen-SS past would not have been a hindrance to being published.
2
Hard to understand why this obit devotes space to the hyped up controversy of Mr Grass's criticism of Israel for being an undeclared nuclear power but offers not a mention of his status as a Fluechtling, one of the hundreds of thousands of Germans ethnically cleansed from the east after 1945. Surely this status informed his criticisms of post-war West Germany and its society. And one cannot help think that, during his last years in Luebeck, he often told himself that the long lost Danzig of his youth looked out on the same Baltic Sea that touched his adopted city. Instead of Danzig, however, the NYT has to waste still more reader time on Israel.
5
I'm so disappointed in Stephen Kinzer, whose writing on Guatemala and Central America in general I have often admired. Seriously, this cheap shot at a great writer and a great man is beneath him.
The NYT is renowned for its obituaries, but you really blew it here.
The NYT is renowned for its obituaries, but you really blew it here.
11
grass was the kid with the drum...crying out over his silence...his guilt may have driven his work, the drumbeat of his moral zeal may have been its most vivid manifestation...there is no doubt that he was consumed by it, his talent, his only protection, was overburdened, perhaps eroded, by it (his "dispatches", as updike calls then, dismissively, missing the the cost of stress "from the front lines of his engagement," are ample evidence)...his message, no matter the messenger, still wants attention - in our rush to material gain, we are distracted from our humanity and, absent the mindfulness, bravery and talent of mr. grass, are not likely to grasp much less admit and address our own secrets and flaws as individuals and as a society.
4
The mere fact of Grass's SS conscription as a youth is NOT the problem. The problem is his utter hypocrisy in the six decades that followed: Claiming a position of moral arbiter over his countrymen's reluctance to honestly confront their past, when he was doing the very same thing all along. I was born in Germany in 1966, and remember Grass's relentless public moralizing all too well. And yes, this disgusts me and will forever tarnish my view of him, literary genius or not.
5
I think he was over rated. And overly ambitious. His desire for fame at the expense of honesty almost completely discounts his literary contributions. He was right about post war Germany needing to be a naif. And as an aside he was right about Israeli dogma about Iran. However his cover up is unforgivable given his stance as moral voice.
1
The thumbnail beside your picture is of Mother Theresa. I believe she served a man who, addressing a throng of self-appointed judges, said: "Let him among you who is without sin cast the first stone." I do not understand the failures to understand historical context, the differences between youth and age, the capacity for change, the distinction between life and art, the recognition that this man was a moralist, not someone adopting a "stance as moral voice" -- that mark so many criticisms of Grass here. To see such lack of forgiveness juxtaposed with image of one of the past century's greatest (but also flawed) servants of the figure who purports to take away the sins of the world is sad -- too common to be surprising, but nonetheless, as ever, sad.
3
"Why was he attracted to the SS"?
He may have been conscripted but Mr. Grass admits to an attraction.
His answer:" It was the newsreels. I was a pushover for the pretiffied black-and-white 'truth' they served up".
That did not stop him from dishing out large doses of "truth" throughout his career. Personally I agree with Marcel Reich-Ranicki and John Updike.
"I kept silent" Mr. Grass wrote as a brief inscription in his memoir. No, he did not keep silent, just about one matter, his service in the Waffen SS. There is and can be no excuse or forgiveness for that silence.
He may have been conscripted but Mr. Grass admits to an attraction.
His answer:" It was the newsreels. I was a pushover for the pretiffied black-and-white 'truth' they served up".
That did not stop him from dishing out large doses of "truth" throughout his career. Personally I agree with Marcel Reich-Ranicki and John Updike.
"I kept silent" Mr. Grass wrote as a brief inscription in his memoir. No, he did not keep silent, just about one matter, his service in the Waffen SS. There is and can be no excuse or forgiveness for that silence.
4
I am guessing, as he was from Gdansk, that his war records were either destroyed or filed away somewhere in East Germany. Still, I would think Grass' fame would have jogged the memory of someone who served with him. The shock is not that he was conscripted as a teenager, but that he kept the secret into old age.
3
I find the headline offensive, as if there were an equivalence between the matters that Grass pried open--at a time when the talk in Germany was all about the Year One in which everything could begin anew--and the conscripted military service of a youngster, whatever his confusions may have been. I think that it was a reasonable judgment for a maturing writer not to permit his serious and uncommon work be undermined by the dishonest derision of "comrades" who would claim that he was "just another" like themselves. The key to this story is the denial of responsibility by those who had it--and Grass was not among them by any stretch of imagination.
9
He was in the Waffen SS as a very young man. Was he altogether a conscript or was there an element of volunteering in this recruitment ? The accounts I have seen do not make this clear. In any case, it was a long time ago, and he was very young indeed. What worries me much more were his lifelong, adult political commitments. He hated Israel but he loved Castro's Cuba. That tells it all, IMHO.
3
It's ironic that he is standing next to John Dos Passos in the article's picture. While liberal in youth, Dos Passos became one of the best known conservative novelists later. You might say Grass had a similar experience in the other direction.
Grass is a good example of how successful the post war campaign of the Allies to denazify Germany. It really did work, probably even more effectively on the German youth who were misled by a sense of patriotism in a country which did not allow them to hear opposing views.
I knew a college girl from Berlin who went to an American college for a while, a moderate conservative by all standards, who said that during the Allied occupation, they played movies and speeches from Churchill so often that later on she couldn't stand to hear him any more, but she also believed that Germans had no right any more to criticize Israel or the Jewish people, which seems to be something that Grass didn't learn.
Grass is a good example of how successful the post war campaign of the Allies to denazify Germany. It really did work, probably even more effectively on the German youth who were misled by a sense of patriotism in a country which did not allow them to hear opposing views.
I knew a college girl from Berlin who went to an American college for a while, a moderate conservative by all standards, who said that during the Allied occupation, they played movies and speeches from Churchill so often that later on she couldn't stand to hear him any more, but she also believed that Germans had no right any more to criticize Israel or the Jewish people, which seems to be something that Grass didn't learn.
2
The intelligentsia is happy to overlook the SS membership of one of their heroes. Others are not so fortunate.
1
I want to commend the times for this article. I found the article well written and agreed with an ending focused on Mr. Grass's black & white view of the SS in his youth and arguably the rest of the world over the rest of his life. In the end, Mr. Grass admits he was a sucker for the SS recruiting newsreels and would have done well to wonder if his new hero of Castro and the Sandinistas were not just his next illusions of moral superiority. Lastly, most of the commenters saying this was a youthful discretion overlook the fact that he spent 50 years of his adult life lying about his past and that hardly can be explained away by youth.
3
We are too quick to condemn those who live (or have lived) in a culture other than ours.
Seems to me we have no desire to even try to imagine what it's like being in their shoes at any time in history.
When your government is at war, and you are as powerless as any 18 year old is to rebel against the actions of that government ....
The writer is the one who made history. NOt the 18, 19 year old who was forced into military service in defense of his homeland.
We call our soldiers 'heroes'. and some of them have committed worst atrocities (in the name of patriotism and democracy) than Mr Grass ever did.
Seems to me we have no desire to even try to imagine what it's like being in their shoes at any time in history.
When your government is at war, and you are as powerless as any 18 year old is to rebel against the actions of that government ....
The writer is the one who made history. NOt the 18, 19 year old who was forced into military service in defense of his homeland.
We call our soldiers 'heroes'. and some of them have committed worst atrocities (in the name of patriotism and democracy) than Mr Grass ever did.
6
The Tin Drum was a masterpiece that broke my heart wide open. If if were required reading in every high school in America, chances are we wouldn't go to war and finally be able to stop the madness.
18
Most, perhaps all, great writers have something shameful in their lives. I think of Arthur Miller, who never publicly acknowledged a mentally damaged son; Thomas Mann, whose eminently respectable facade concealed homosexual longings; F. Scott Fitzgerald, who collaborated in his wife's psychological breakdown. But it one looks at their work carefully, struggling with shame is central to their work. So it was with Grass. I don't think "The Tin Drum" could have cut so deeply if its author hadn't experienced first-hand the complicity with evil that is the book's enduring subject.
17
Gunter Grass does NOT beat out Jerzy Kosinski . At least Grass's early novels will be read 50 year from now. Not so sure about "The Painted Bird"
6
Despite his pacifism, I am disturbed that he couldn't understand the Iranian threat to Israel. Nothing to do with joining the SS. Having said that, it serves well to mention my Holocaust survivor mother's experience in one of the satellite camps of Dachau for Jews. She worked in the infirmary, set up for Jewish people, and for months there was a German medical student who somehow was able to procure some medications for these sick but obviously needed Jewish slave workers, saving some lives. I don't recall what type of unit he had volunteered for, but he told my mother not to say anything about how/where he obtained these medications, or they'd all be killed. He also said his experiences working in the camp with real Jews, not the Nazi caricatures of them, completely altered his thinking. Towards the end of the war, he was sent to the front, and my mom had no way of knowing if he was really caught and executed, or the German army simply needed more manpower. She mentioned this many times during her lifetime and always wondered what became of him. I don't have his name.
5
That's a very touching. Thank you for passing that on.
Grass was one of the very few writers who actively spoke out against war, including the American war in Vietnam.
Understanding why the German people followed and encouraged Nazi brutality is a challenging task. The book by Professor Gellately is a statistical look at German civilians, and it gives a chilling picture of the people and the times. Klemperer's memoirs are an interesting up close view and are easier to read.
Understanding what happened requires a combination of wild imagination and real understanding of difficult facts. Grass had this and I appreciated it in both his books and in the the movie version of The Tin Drum. My own impression was that the dwarf protagonist was intended to represent the peaceful part of both German and neighboring populations, which makes him as well as Europe schizophrenic. The dwarf's mother is married to a man of one nationality and having an affair with a man of the other one.
Hitler's policy of advocating a mix of positions at the beginning of each speech, and then going strongly in support of whatever got the loudest audience reaction, means that the German and Austrian populations at least shared in the Nazi choice of policies. Professor Fisher's book on German war aims in 1914 and 1938 supports this. Grass tried to deal with this insanity by creating a crazy character. Good job!
To see a practical reaction to European and American politics, go to YouTube and watch Comedy Party Platform (2 min 9 sec).
Understanding why the German people followed and encouraged Nazi brutality is a challenging task. The book by Professor Gellately is a statistical look at German civilians, and it gives a chilling picture of the people and the times. Klemperer's memoirs are an interesting up close view and are easier to read.
Understanding what happened requires a combination of wild imagination and real understanding of difficult facts. Grass had this and I appreciated it in both his books and in the the movie version of The Tin Drum. My own impression was that the dwarf protagonist was intended to represent the peaceful part of both German and neighboring populations, which makes him as well as Europe schizophrenic. The dwarf's mother is married to a man of one nationality and having an affair with a man of the other one.
Hitler's policy of advocating a mix of positions at the beginning of each speech, and then going strongly in support of whatever got the loudest audience reaction, means that the German and Austrian populations at least shared in the Nazi choice of policies. Professor Fisher's book on German war aims in 1914 and 1938 supports this. Grass tried to deal with this insanity by creating a crazy character. Good job!
To see a practical reaction to European and American politics, go to YouTube and watch Comedy Party Platform (2 min 9 sec).
6
As his biography attests, what better representative of (the good and the bad of) the German nation than Günter Grass? May his and their history always be remembered.
5
If you were conscripted into the German war machine as a youth, as Grass was, you spend the rest of your life dealing with the guilt and shame, even if you did no wrong.
If you were personally responsible for dropping an atomic bomb on a city of women and children, you go around to high schools boasting of your thrilling exploits.
If you were personally responsible for dropping an atomic bomb on a city of women and children, you go around to high schools boasting of your thrilling exploits.
18
As a young person who knew right from wrong, he chose to join one of the most murderous groups in an armed force committing genocide, and then after the war like every other Nazi he hid his past. Then as a master story teller he told his story and there was no one left to contest what he wanted you to know. And most of you bought it. May he rot in hell with the rest of the Nazis.
9
Beyond his literary accomplishments, Mr. Grass will forever be an example that letting out even the worst truths takes more courage than hiding a secret. His life achieved an enduring literary ideal.
5
Though I first became acquainted with Grass when I read "Cat and Mouse" and thought "Tin Drum" was just genius, my favorite was "Local Anaesthetic"--a dentist drills away while his patients are entertained and distracted by the tube. Today, he'd have use Facebook, Twitter, and the Kardashians. Nonetheless, government continues to drill deeper into our lives. The pain is even more intense than Vietnam--we're just so anesthetize, comfortably numb, we don't notice it anymore. Only a dentist could really appreciate that--or Grass, I suppose.
5
Good grief, to beat up a young boy who was drafted, after an adult life of moral wonder, is ridiculous.
15
Gunter Grass can be forgiven for joing SS. He was
young easily influenced by Nazis propaganda. Also
the social impact of hordes of young men joing SS
can't be minimized. At that time he may not have
known the evil Nazis were going to perpetrate that
we, with the advantage of hindsight, know so well.
However, important question is:did he participate
in the evil acts that other SS members did. So far
there is no revelation of any bad activities he carried
out. In the context of his overall impact and his
influence in acknowledging the evil of holocaust and
the atonement overweight the "youthful Indiscretion"
of joining SS in an environment of intense Nazis
propaganda.
young easily influenced by Nazis propaganda. Also
the social impact of hordes of young men joing SS
can't be minimized. At that time he may not have
known the evil Nazis were going to perpetrate that
we, with the advantage of hindsight, know so well.
However, important question is:did he participate
in the evil acts that other SS members did. So far
there is no revelation of any bad activities he carried
out. In the context of his overall impact and his
influence in acknowledging the evil of holocaust and
the atonement overweight the "youthful Indiscretion"
of joining SS in an environment of intense Nazis
propaganda.
3
Sorry but he can't. The SS were the worst of the worst who carried out despicable acts of terror. He shouldn't have concealed this aspect of his life. It undermines his moral authority and taints his work.
9
As has been repeatedly pointed out, Grass did not "join" the SS; he was conscripted. Make what arguments you see fit, but make them honest arguments.
I mean read the article. He wasn't "simply" conscripted , but admitted to an attraction to the SS. That is understandable to a degree-and certainly many young Germans had no choice, but it's the fact that as a public figure, a writer- and particularly one whose stock and trade was moral judgements, and moral responsibility- kept this a secret, that is the disturbing issue.
I think it is easier to defend Grass serving as a 17 year old than his lying for decades about his actions while accusing many others about lying about their actions.
His blanket defense of Castro, without regard for his persecution of gays and repression of dissent, is not admirable, either. Why do so many Americans who purport to support gay rights cast a blind eye to leftist governments which persecute gays?
His blanket defense of Castro, without regard for his persecution of gays and repression of dissent, is not admirable, either. Why do so many Americans who purport to support gay rights cast a blind eye to leftist governments which persecute gays?
6
Herr Grass was 17 when he was an SS member. This should not be featured prominently in his obituary. For shame.
13
I see the Germany that Herr Grass's writing has helped produce is the only post adolescent nation. Only with the complete disavowal of nationalism that is contemporary Germany can humans out grow our worst. The USA needs more introspection about what kind of nation could begin in slavery and genocide. Germany , especially the post Grass Germany, is an example for all of us.
8
The fact of his fascination, as a young teen, with his nation's exaggerated nationalism and self-righteousness, is a lot less disappointing than the stories of the older ones, who went off to fight and kill for the Fatherland. His shame is understandable, as is anyone who finally realizes that throughout history society sacrifices it's idealistic and emotional young men on the altar of nationalism and patriotism. It's easy to hate the Nazis for it, because they took it to grotesque extremes. But it has always been grotesque, as Gunter Grass would agree.
2
Just to clarify the historical record: the Waffen SS did indeed conscript people into service. They were not an all-volunteer organization. In fact, the Nuremburg trials specifically excluded Waffen SS conscripts.
So, for those of you in this forum who have claimed that the Waffen SS was an all-volunteer outfit and Grass could not have been a conscript, please have the decency to retract your statements.
So, for those of you in this forum who have claimed that the Waffen SS was an all-volunteer outfit and Grass could not have been a conscript, please have the decency to retract your statements.
15
Further, the Waffen SS was the military arm of the SS organization, distinct from the prison camp guards and einsatzgruppen. Particularly later in the war, these units were populated by conscripts and even prisoners of war, as extreme personnel shortages affected all military units. Certainly, the SS contained a greater percentage of Nazi ideologues, but in many respects the Waffen SS functioned much like the regular German army (Wehrmacht). It is also difficult to ascribe motivations to late-war German combatants in the context of the massive, looming Red Army preparing to exact revenge on the German people. One could very easily be compelled take up arms to defend the homeland without necessarily defending the ideals of Nazism.
1
In the late 1970s, I had the immense privilege of squiring Gunter Grass around Alaska, a place he was always curious about. Three incidents stand out in my memories from that week:
1) We were under constant surveillance by his own country as well as ours. At times the antics of the agents were so over the top, it was as if we were in the middle of a "Get Smart" episode.
2) The high degree of respect and devotion the German-speaking population of our state had for Gunter Grass was evident. The warmth he felt for his fellow countrymen in return was genuine and very touching.
3) Perhaps most memorable was the stop we made at a country store out in the boonies one day. A small group of burly Alaskan men were sitting on the outside stoop and one of them thought he recognized Gunter as we entered the shop. When we came back out with our soft drinks and cigarettes,the bearded man approached and asked if Gunter was the German author of The Tin Drum. When Gunter responded affirmatively, the man became somewhat emotional as he recounted how he and "his men" had passed the book around to each other as they sloughed through the swamps and mine fields of Vietnam just a few years earlier. I recall the soldier saying "That book was so damned crazy. It was like you were there with us." Another said "It kept us sane, man. It really did."
I found out later that he was indeed a fan favorite of our Vietnam vets and they frequently wrote to him or sought him out.
1) We were under constant surveillance by his own country as well as ours. At times the antics of the agents were so over the top, it was as if we were in the middle of a "Get Smart" episode.
2) The high degree of respect and devotion the German-speaking population of our state had for Gunter Grass was evident. The warmth he felt for his fellow countrymen in return was genuine and very touching.
3) Perhaps most memorable was the stop we made at a country store out in the boonies one day. A small group of burly Alaskan men were sitting on the outside stoop and one of them thought he recognized Gunter as we entered the shop. When we came back out with our soft drinks and cigarettes,the bearded man approached and asked if Gunter was the German author of The Tin Drum. When Gunter responded affirmatively, the man became somewhat emotional as he recounted how he and "his men" had passed the book around to each other as they sloughed through the swamps and mine fields of Vietnam just a few years earlier. I recall the soldier saying "That book was so damned crazy. It was like you were there with us." Another said "It kept us sane, man. It really did."
I found out later that he was indeed a fan favorite of our Vietnam vets and they frequently wrote to him or sought him out.
12
There's a casual viciousness to this article. Misplaced emphasis.
19
A Nazi SS elite has a moral dilemma with Israel trying to defend itself? I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that that had nothing to do with his murderous antisemitism, just the way I give the benefit of the doubt to those who speak out against Israel and claim that they are not anti-Jewish (while having no special feelings towards other countries in the same region committing Nazi-esque crimes). No, no Israel is wrong, and it has nothing to do the fact that Israel is a refuge for Jews in a world pervaded by Jew hatred.
13
Dear Jonathan,
Your hateful screed seems entirely ignorant of the facts in this case. Mr. Grass was no elite, as the war ended before he turned 18. He had no murderous antisemitism anyone is aware of. I understand there is a lot of antisemitism out there, but the knee-jerk reaction that everyone, particularly every German, must be antisemitic, is just as bigoted in the opposite direction.
Your hateful screed seems entirely ignorant of the facts in this case. Mr. Grass was no elite, as the war ended before he turned 18. He had no murderous antisemitism anyone is aware of. I understand there is a lot of antisemitism out there, but the knee-jerk reaction that everyone, particularly every German, must be antisemitic, is just as bigoted in the opposite direction.
5
How did he write The Tin Drum? Dasein. Dasein is always a being engaged in the world: neither a subject, nor the objective world alone, but the coherence of Being-in-the-world. This ontological basis of Heidegger's work thus opposes the Cartesian "abstract agent" in favour of practical engagement with one's environment. Dasein is revealed by projection into, and engagement with, a personal world - a never-ending process of involvement with the world as mediated through the projects of the self.
Language, everyday curiosity, logical systems, and common beliefs (religiosity) obscure Dasein's nature from itself. Authentic choice means turning away from the collective world of Them, to face Dasein, one's individuality, one's own limited life-span, one's own being.
Even Victor Frankel knew this in Man's Search for Meaning.
Language, everyday curiosity, logical systems, and common beliefs (religiosity) obscure Dasein's nature from itself. Authentic choice means turning away from the collective world of Them, to face Dasein, one's individuality, one's own limited life-span, one's own being.
Even Victor Frankel knew this in Man's Search for Meaning.
This individual was born in Oct 1927. That makes him 12 at the beginning of 1940; and 17 in April 1945 when Germany Surrendered. Scientists say that the human brain is not fully developed until early-to-mid 20s. Let's cut him some slack.
29
Just which scientists say that ?
I don't think any of us have any idea of the deep shame someone like Herr Grass would've felt when they learned the extent of the horror that was the Nazi regime. Sometimes, shame itself can be misconstrued as penance. And deep shame is frequently sublimated, which is probably what the social criticism was a vehicle for.
To face it takes strength. And really, his social criticism was in a way his penance because nobody really can be proud of Germany's role in WWII. And some carry shame as their penance. We won't know in Herr Grass' case but we can only imagine.
To face it takes strength. And really, his social criticism was in a way his penance because nobody really can be proud of Germany's role in WWII. And some carry shame as their penance. We won't know in Herr Grass' case but we can only imagine.
7
Grass was a great writer and his perspective and insights will be greatly missed. I am disappointed that the NYTimes and NPR have chosen to remember him initially for other things. I agree with the comments here that attempt to place his decisions as a 16 year old in historical context and rightly, in my view, ask us how we might have acted in his place? As for his critique of Israel's far right ruling party, Grass had good company, including many Israelis. Please stop using criticism of Israeli policy as a litmus test for
assessing anyone's legitimacy to speak.
assessing anyone's legitimacy to speak.
23
From my teenage years to early adulthood, I read all of Grass's works and then stopped as they became less interesting. But, the mind-pictures that he evoked were amazing at the time and I think would probably be so today. Now that he's dead, I think there's not question that the early body of his work will live on and continue to be ready by people who want to gain a visceral sense of that period just prior to, during, and after WWII. As to his political and social significance, it's much more fleeting. Tolstoi was a mentor of Gandhi. I don't think people remember for him as much as for his books. Grass was right to be pilloried for his lying about his teenage years. He needed to pay the price. I'm not sure he did, because he made his admission when he was rich, comfortable, and elderly. But, better late than never.
4
There are two things which regretfully happened 1- He lived upto a ripe age of 87, that too a full life when you think about young extinguished lives. 2- He won the Nobel Prize for literature. Because both happened due to his willful suppression of his true identity.Sorry John Irving, he was no hero with a moral compass. He had lost it the minute he decided to hide his true identity - involved in the atrocities or not.John Updike was more astute in his assessment that Grass was just bloviating as a novelist, unable to stop his self-righteous rhetoric.He was most likely trying to over-compensate( an impossibility ) for his nefarious past which he did not disclose. If there was nothing to hide, why hide it?
7
When Grass did admit that part of his past, he was more honest than most human beings are about themselves. The article asks, "Why was he attracted to the SS as a teenager?" Grass stated in his memoir, “It was the newsreels . . .I was a pushover for the prettified black-and-white ‘truth’ they served up.”
If you read memoirs of the various German generals or industrial magnates who served Hitler (and found favor with Western post-war establishment), all of them were full of excuses for themselves. To their dying day, none of them accepted a shred of responsibility. All of them claimed to be secretly anti-Nazi but merely obeyed Hitler out of patriotic duty or necessity, ignoring the fact many of them advanced their careers due to Hitler's patronage or received lavish gifts and favors from the Nazi leadership.
Compared to those hypocrites, Grass was still far more honest about himself.
If you read memoirs of the various German generals or industrial magnates who served Hitler (and found favor with Western post-war establishment), all of them were full of excuses for themselves. To their dying day, none of them accepted a shred of responsibility. All of them claimed to be secretly anti-Nazi but merely obeyed Hitler out of patriotic duty or necessity, ignoring the fact many of them advanced their careers due to Hitler's patronage or received lavish gifts and favors from the Nazi leadership.
Compared to those hypocrites, Grass was still far more honest about himself.
26
We like to think, all of us, that we would have been among those who showed remarkable bravery in the face of totalitarian threats, but it's most likely not the case, and I count myself fortunate that I will most likely not have to face such a challenge. I am not excusing Grass, whatever he did or more accurately, his deception about his past, but I still think that The Tin Drum is among the greatest novels of the 20th century in any language. What makes Grass's deception so difficult is that he was the opposite of an apologist in his public life, asking others to own up to their moral failure, even as he hid his own culpability, however minor. He wasn't wrong exactly, he just underestimated the courage required to do what he was asking.
48
Who among us, even with the flawed benefit of hindsight, can say that deep down inside, under similar circumstances, they would not have joined the Nazi effort.
As for Grass hiding his involvement, he obviously felt great shame as a result. No one is suggesting he participated in wartime crimes. He learned from his Nazi involvement and afterwards became a true social conscience and led an exemplary and admirable life.
It seems that the world is a better place for him having been alive.
As for Grass hiding his involvement, he obviously felt great shame as a result. No one is suggesting he participated in wartime crimes. He learned from his Nazi involvement and afterwards became a true social conscience and led an exemplary and admirable life.
It seems that the world is a better place for him having been alive.
24
There were many Germans who were murdered & ended up in concentration Camps rather than join that mob of criminals & murders, speak for yourself Out Door.
He more than made up for it & had the courage to write that the Catholic & Lutheran Churches by their tacit silence were as guilty as the Murders of the 3rd reich.
He more than made up for it & had the courage to write that the Catholic & Lutheran Churches by their tacit silence were as guilty as the Murders of the 3rd reich.
3
He went right along with them. No courage at all. Many other young people died opposing the Nazis, but he joined the Waffen SS.
1
Let us be grateful for small favors. At least Günter Grass outed the fact that he'd been a member of the SS - unlike Kurt Waldheim, who deliberately held publicly that he'd ended his service early in World War II when in fact he'd continued it.
War has a bestializing influence on all its combatants - not least the callow youths who are always requisitioned as cannon fodder by their elders during wartime. (Grass was just shy of 18 when Germany surrendered in May, 1945).
I believe that we as a nation are no exception in 2015 - since we're experiencing a similar brutalizing, stupefying influence on our youth- and on our artists and intelligentsia - as a result our never-ending global "perpetual war for perpetual peace" that has become the norm since the scarring events of 9/11.
War has a bestializing influence on all its combatants - not least the callow youths who are always requisitioned as cannon fodder by their elders during wartime. (Grass was just shy of 18 when Germany surrendered in May, 1945).
I believe that we as a nation are no exception in 2015 - since we're experiencing a similar brutalizing, stupefying influence on our youth- and on our artists and intelligentsia - as a result our never-ending global "perpetual war for perpetual peace" that has become the norm since the scarring events of 9/11.
17
A man of principle and a great literary voice, Günter Grass will be missed. The best art and writing is rooted in the real world and communicates that which must be said. Writers who do this are immortal on paper speaking long after their bodies have turned to dust. American writers could learn a lot from Grass's example as the psychopathy that marred Germany stalks us as well.
12
Mark Twain served briefly in the Confederate Militia at the beginning of the American Civil War. He even wrote, fictitiously or not, that he participated in the shooting of an innocent man. Time to reject him as an author?
24
When my mother heard people passing judgment, she always said: "Every saint has a past and every sinner a future." Forgiveness is a great virtue.
25
Once again the media falsifies Grass' war time record. The Waffen SS, an "elite" Nazi unit but a major branch of service akin to the US Marine Corps, perhaps even larger than that as it incorporated whole tank armies. Moreover, Grass was DRAFTED into this service when he was 17 in a unit that first fought the Americans on the Western Front before being shifted to the East to fight the Russians on German soil. While he could have been more forthright about his history earlier on, to suggest that this made him a Nazi or that he served in some kind of "elite" Nazi unit is misleading. Rather he naively thought it was proper to acquiesce in what he saw as a patriotic duty in defending his homeland against foreign invaders and was wounded in action in April 1945 while doing so. Below is a link to the Wikipedia article on the division he served with that explains this in more detail.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10th_SS_Panzer_Division_Frundsberg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10th_SS_Panzer_Division_Frundsberg
14
Yes, I had concluded that Gunter Grass must have been a child when he saw service for Germany during WWII. I think it an outrage that he be vilified for this. I am still of the view that he was :his country's moral conscience."
19
He was not a child. He knew what he was getting into and he wanted it. I find it shameful the way people will gloss over his past because he was a writer.
You have no idea how many convinced ex Nazis where still around in the 50s and 60s. There was systemic silence on the Third Reich wrongdoings and the associated mentality. It was people on the left like Grass who pushed Germany in conscience. The conservatives were pretty quiet.
To those who call Grass a hypocrite
My cousin, a devote pacifist, was drafted, age 17, as a Flakhelfer in 1944.
The one way out was suicide. He took his issued pistol and shot himself in the head.
Miraculously, he survived. He became Lutheran pastor, bullet lodged in his temple, never removed..
My cousin, a devote pacifist, was drafted, age 17, as a Flakhelfer in 1944.
The one way out was suicide. He took his issued pistol and shot himself in the head.
Miraculously, he survived. He became Lutheran pastor, bullet lodged in his temple, never removed..
29
You seem to contradict yourself. Your cousin was heroic for not participating in
the murder of innocents, even at the expense of his life
Grass made no such attempt, to leave or end his life.
However, he was young and had no choice. Lets hope he wasn't part of the killing machine.
the murder of innocents, even at the expense of his life
Grass made no such attempt, to leave or end his life.
However, he was young and had no choice. Lets hope he wasn't part of the killing machine.
Grass joined. Joined the SS. Never tried suicide. Lied his whole life until caught.
No comparison.
If I join IIS at 18 it is not the same as joining at 12.
No comparison.
If I join IIS at 18 it is not the same as joining at 12.
What I'm understanding is that Grass was drafted, or otherwise coerced, into the Waffen-SS as a teenager late in the war; that he managed to avoid doing significant harm; and that he got out as soon as he could. And he was far from being the only one. Why he never admitted to it until his recent autobiography is a secret he takes with him to the grave. I can only assume it was because it took him that long to find a way to deal with it as he felt to be appropriate.
For many commenters "once a sinner, always a sinner" seems to be the operating principle. Once you find some dirt on someone, it becomes an indelible stain and an excuse to pull prominent figures down off their pedestals. Could we not give some consideration to the principle of atonement - specifically in Grass's case?
For many commenters "once a sinner, always a sinner" seems to be the operating principle. Once you find some dirt on someone, it becomes an indelible stain and an excuse to pull prominent figures down off their pedestals. Could we not give some consideration to the principle of atonement - specifically in Grass's case?
9
It is disturbing seeing people accuse Günter Grass of being a Nazi—serving in the Waffen SS doesn't qualify one for such opprobrium: The Waffen SS was an elite unit, much more like the U.S. Marines than Himmler's regular SS. It also included divisions made up entirely of non-German nationals, divisions like the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS consisting mainly of Ukrainians. Grass was a seventeen-year-old in 1943, and like many Germans of that age, wanted to help defend what was left of his bombed-out country, and so he volunteered for submarine duty. His application was rejected and he was assigned to the Waffen SS tank division Frundsberg in which he served for only a few months before being captured by the Allies. I don't find anything reprehensible about this.
After his war record became public, Germany's greatest postwar writer was attacked by that type of sanctimonious person who is constantly looking for a cause or a target that will allow them to preach a sermon displaying their moral superiority. There will always be thousands of these moralist vampires. But only one Günter Grass.
After his war record became public, Germany's greatest postwar writer was attacked by that type of sanctimonious person who is constantly looking for a cause or a target that will allow them to preach a sermon displaying their moral superiority. There will always be thousands of these moralist vampires. But only one Günter Grass.
17
As Gunter Grass died at 87, he must have been 15, not 17, in 1943 (or, at most, would have turned 16 in 1943). In any event, he was a juvenile. I am completely in agreement with your assessment of those who condemn him for his not refusing to serve (and be exterminated).
9
I think you miss the point. He was holier than thou his whole life, hiding this in the past. When it comes out of course he is contrite. But to say he had no choice is another lie.
To all these self righteous philistines pointing at Grass because he got conscripted into the SS when he was 17 years old a note from US Lt. Colonel Douglas McGlashan Kelley , the psychiatrist who interviewed the top Nazis at Nuremberg. In 1947 he pointed out, that there was nothing special about the Nazis. America,McGlashan- Kelley said, was full with people just like them, would-be fascists who would exterminate democracy and half the population for the chance to rule the other half.
And Hermann Goering`s warning at the Nuremberg Trials should have been heard but weren`t by the Americans: "People can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
And Hermann Goering`s warning at the Nuremberg Trials should have been heard but weren`t by the Americans: "People can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
30
Yes--thank you for that quote. Should be required reading from kindergarten. Sometimes even the most evil of people tell the truth...
9
Indeed, our hubris, national chauvinism (exceptionalism), and plain insecurity about ourselves and the world we live in has continued to get us into trouble since the end of the second world war....we cannot accept the fact that the world is changing and we may not be at the center of it 100% of time--we have this historical based need to be at the center of major conflicts...our default position has been to shoot and ask questions later. Obama has tried not to fall into that trap and has been skewered for it by the war hawk, neo cons and the Republican Party in general.
5
I think only the American public was shocked by Grass's own revelation of how he joined the SS as a high school student. In the States, we have no clue of what happens in a totalitarian society. After the war, Germans of my generation learned how anyone who could walk - students, old grandfathers - was either forced or drawn into the army or SS in the last year of WWII. And forget about 'live free or die'!
Günther Grass was great European and a great writer.
Günther Grass was great European and a great writer.
16
Gunter Grass was a teenager when he was conscripted (translation: forced) into the Waffen SS. While I think he should have disclosed his Waffen SS involvement much earlier in his career, who among us has the right to sit in judgment here? He was a boy and he was forced to join. How many of us would have resisted if we were in the same situation?
My sister-in=law's mother passed away a couple days ago. She was a 16-year old Berliner who had to hide from the Russians when they entered the city. I can't even imagine how scared she was, hiding in bombed out buildings to avoid rape and death. Who knows what choices she had to make to survive?
Let us celebrate his life and work, not judge him for making a choice that most of us would have made.
My sister-in=law's mother passed away a couple days ago. She was a 16-year old Berliner who had to hide from the Russians when they entered the city. I can't even imagine how scared she was, hiding in bombed out buildings to avoid rape and death. Who knows what choices she had to make to survive?
Let us celebrate his life and work, not judge him for making a choice that most of us would have made.
18
Coincidentally I just caught "American History X" over the weekend, a great film with Ed Norton, about an American Nazi (skinhead type) who manages to learn how wrong his worldview is. He repents, and still suffers from the fallout of his twisted past.
So it strikes me, reading a lot of these unforgiving comments, which are thankfully in the minority, how wrongheaded they are. What these people are saying is that because Mr. Grass was conscripted into the SS at 16, serving for 6 months, he should never be forgiven and all his work afterward is meaningless.
The trouble with that attitude is that it's as unswervingly biased as the Nazis were. And if such people can't be forgiven, then there is no reason for them to ever change their minds. Such comments are telling them, "if you were ever a Nazi, then all non-Aryans are indeed your enemy for life, implacably, and they will never forgive you or listen to you. So never lose sight of the fact that these enemies will be set against you forever, and hold true to the only cause that will accept you".
Can y'all understand that, or is your ideology too dogmatic? It's understandable if it is, humans are prone to ironclad dogma, which is exactly how WWII came about actually.
So it strikes me, reading a lot of these unforgiving comments, which are thankfully in the minority, how wrongheaded they are. What these people are saying is that because Mr. Grass was conscripted into the SS at 16, serving for 6 months, he should never be forgiven and all his work afterward is meaningless.
The trouble with that attitude is that it's as unswervingly biased as the Nazis were. And if such people can't be forgiven, then there is no reason for them to ever change their minds. Such comments are telling them, "if you were ever a Nazi, then all non-Aryans are indeed your enemy for life, implacably, and they will never forgive you or listen to you. So never lose sight of the fact that these enemies will be set against you forever, and hold true to the only cause that will accept you".
Can y'all understand that, or is your ideology too dogmatic? It's understandable if it is, humans are prone to ironclad dogma, which is exactly how WWII came about actually.
16
My ideology is not dogmatic, but to brush off his hidden past like it was dust is pathetic. Whether he is a good writer or not (I personally think Heinrich Boll is much better), he preached his whole life to everyone and yet he hid this awful thing. It is awful. Other young people died or fled rather than do it, but he went willingly. You all miss the point. It's not the crime it's the coverup.
Dear Small business owner,
I understand the concept, but this thing he hid wasn't that awful. If you had been born into Germany in the same year he had, and been male, then in the time between '43 and '45 you would have been drafted into the Nazi army. And 99 of 100 of us would not shoot ourselves in the head instead (which was about the only option). But my overall point was, can people forgive? And if they cannot then there is no point discussing anything with them.
I understand the concept, but this thing he hid wasn't that awful. If you had been born into Germany in the same year he had, and been male, then in the time between '43 and '45 you would have been drafted into the Nazi army. And 99 of 100 of us would not shoot ourselves in the head instead (which was about the only option). But my overall point was, can people forgive? And if they cannot then there is no point discussing anything with them.
2
As one commenter, donnenbergad, wrote, "One of the things that makes Germany a great nation today was its ability to largely recognize and come to terms with its culpability for the holocaust."
Big contrast with the U.S. - in which any condemnation of our nation's culpability for slavery, aka the African Holocaust, the genocide of Native Americans, and both past and present racism is met with furious denial, outrage, indignation, attempts to trivialize or justify these crimes - and of course, the usual accusations of "reverse racism."
Instead of being outraged at the injustices of the past & present and seeking to redress them, instead too many of us are angry that we're not allowed to use the "n" word or other such slurs anymore.
Yet more "American exceptionalism." If only we would own up to our country's crimes and ills, maybe we could actually heal - and attain the moral status of our "better selves."
But nooooo - denial, self-righteousness, and flag-waving is so much more comforting - kind of like junk food, booze & drugs, & trash tv - and just as "healthy" psychologically & morally.
Big contrast with the U.S. - in which any condemnation of our nation's culpability for slavery, aka the African Holocaust, the genocide of Native Americans, and both past and present racism is met with furious denial, outrage, indignation, attempts to trivialize or justify these crimes - and of course, the usual accusations of "reverse racism."
Instead of being outraged at the injustices of the past & present and seeking to redress them, instead too many of us are angry that we're not allowed to use the "n" word or other such slurs anymore.
Yet more "American exceptionalism." If only we would own up to our country's crimes and ills, maybe we could actually heal - and attain the moral status of our "better selves."
But nooooo - denial, self-righteousness, and flag-waving is so much more comforting - kind of like junk food, booze & drugs, & trash tv - and just as "healthy" psychologically & morally.
26
Excellent points and to this day we have never apologized for our illegal and unjustified attacks on the Iraqi civilian population that killed many.
Our actions have set the course of the mideast currently in flames.
We bear much responsibility. I was hoping Obama would have the courage to offer
an apology.
Our actions have set the course of the mideast currently in flames.
We bear much responsibility. I was hoping Obama would have the courage to offer
an apology.
1
The fact that Grass was conscripted into the Waffen SS in 1944, when he was 18 years old hardly makes him a Nazi, or a hypocrite. On that basis all those who were drafted to fight in Vietnam were American imperialists. Refusing the draft in wartime Germany led to summary hanging. I don't think that many of us would have refused to serve.
16
he was 16...5 years below the drinking age in the US...so basically a child/ teenager thrown into a world of adults. People don't realize what it is like to live under a dictatorship, they think that you still have choices, you obey or you die..or flee ..somewhere...
6
17 years old, according to "der Spiegel"
1
Gunter was 16 in 1944. My world view from that age and my current age is COMPLETELY different. However, if I had not gone through that, I wouldn't have been able to change and bcome who I am today. Still, I will forever be intellectually ashamed at that period of my life. So, I serioiusly can't throw any stones at any 16-year-old, Gunter or otherwise.
He seems to have grown out of it too.
He seems to have grown out of it too.
8
I forgive Grass for his lack of full disclosure. Having read most of his major works, I was not at all surprised when he admitted being in the SS, and my respect for him didn't waver. I wish those rushing to judgment would read before they condemn him. His stories are suffused with shame, repression, and regret. He continually explores, rationalizes, sympathizes with, deplores the mind of the complacent, small-time sinner that he obviously felt himself to be. All of his narrators are unreliable…and it becomes difficult to tell if the perpetrator or the victim of sin loses more humanity. I didn't follow his works as an activist, but I don’t think he ever represented himself as better than others. I’m sure a small omission of convenience (or fear) that grew to a larger one as time passed. I’m certain he caused more serious moral reckoning in his readers than many writers with less troubled conscious. I wish those deploring him would apply his moral rigor to themselves…
46
If you were proud of your own or someone else's service in Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan, you have no standing to criticize Gunter Grass.
Yes--Afghanistan too. It was Saudi nationals funded with Saudi money who attacked us; Saudis who founded and funded the madrassas that feed the Al Qaeda and ISIS pipelines. The innocents we killed and kill far outnumber the bad guys we got.
Think of the hysterical fervor and blatant lies that led to the Iraq war which many Americans continue to support, and then tell me how a 16-year-old raised on Nazi propaganda from early childhood--and the horror and terror of growing up in Nazi Germany--would have had the moral clarity to avoid a uniform. Do keep in mind that avoiding service would also have put his entire family at risk.
Americans in opposition to any war have risked far less, and few still managed to do so.
Yes--Afghanistan too. It was Saudi nationals funded with Saudi money who attacked us; Saudis who founded and funded the madrassas that feed the Al Qaeda and ISIS pipelines. The innocents we killed and kill far outnumber the bad guys we got.
Think of the hysterical fervor and blatant lies that led to the Iraq war which many Americans continue to support, and then tell me how a 16-year-old raised on Nazi propaganda from early childhood--and the horror and terror of growing up in Nazi Germany--would have had the moral clarity to avoid a uniform. Do keep in mind that avoiding service would also have put his entire family at risk.
Americans in opposition to any war have risked far less, and few still managed to do so.
18
To those who focus solely on his WWII service in the Waffen SS: Remember that when the war ended, with Mr. Grass in a POW camp, he was 17 years old. Many, many 17-year-olds will rush to serve their nation and try to get into the most elite fighting unit they can. Sure, he ought to have acknowledged this part of his past sooner. But like most people, he was trying to get past the war and set out on a career. His repentance comes through loud and clear in the messages of his many books.
6
I am about to write one of the only comments on this piece in which the SS is not mentioned.
...
Oops.
My kudos to those few of you who managed not to fixate, and my condemnation to the sanctimonious, holier-than-thou types among you who believe that every person's life, soul, and work can be pared down to one black/white issue.
...
Oops.
My kudos to those few of you who managed not to fixate, and my condemnation to the sanctimonious, holier-than-thou types among you who believe that every person's life, soul, and work can be pared down to one black/white issue.
18
Grass was a great writer. His "Danzig Trilogy" set my mind on fire when I read it. Being an American of German descent with relatives who were Nazi's in WW II, his writing was illuminating, mystifying and scary, as was the Nazi movement and how it affected us all. He left this world a better place because of his pen and I am grateful for that. Quibbling over his minimal WW II military participation is to miss the point of who he was and what he did.
Tschuess, Guenter.
Tschuess, Guenter.
14
You miss the point by ignoring the fact that Grass felt entitled to lecture Germans for decades to accept responsibility and honestly confront their Nazi past, however, he failed to do so himself until late in his life. While he was undoubtedly a great writer, he was also a moral coward and a hypocrite on a personal level.
Nothing unusual about that, but let's not ignore the truth.
Nothing unusual about that, but let's not ignore the truth.
This is not to defend any part of the Nazi regime -- it is to be despised -- but anyone who questions how a teen-aged boy could go from being a Waffen-SS soldier to an activist of the Left, making his way across the wreck of a battered Germany, should go back and re-read "Simplicissimus."
(In "The Meeting at Telgte," Grass put Grimmelshausen into a meeting of German writers at the end of the Thirty Years War, in what may be something of a self-portrait.)
(In "The Meeting at Telgte," Grass put Grimmelshausen into a meeting of German writers at the end of the Thirty Years War, in what may be something of a self-portrait.)
4
Grass's living in comfort and publishing freely while at the same time berating the US calls to mind Orwell castigating Huxley for "preaching pacifism behind the guns of the American fleet."
5
EXactly. No one here gets it at all. He was such a sanctimonious hypocrite.
Perhaps Japan should have its own "Günter Grass", who could push the country to "confront the ugly aspects of history".
Angela Merkel was in Japan last month to discuss Germany's reconciliation efforts after World War II. She maintained that Germany's acceptance into the international community was possible, because it had dealt with its past. Japan has been criticised by its neighbours - China and South Korea - for its inadequate acknowledgement and education of wartime atrocities.
Merkel said Germany had "faced its past squarely", helping it move forward. "There was the acceptance in Germany to call things by their name".
Angela Merkel was in Japan last month to discuss Germany's reconciliation efforts after World War II. She maintained that Germany's acceptance into the international community was possible, because it had dealt with its past. Japan has been criticised by its neighbours - China and South Korea - for its inadequate acknowledgement and education of wartime atrocities.
Merkel said Germany had "faced its past squarely", helping it move forward. "There was the acceptance in Germany to call things by their name".
3
Hmm. Wasn't there a pope who was also an ex-nazi? How many other ex-nazi's never came forward, never apologized, never worked for the good of the world? His was not a death-bed confession. He publicly confronted his horrible past, his silence, his shame, but he also worked for peace. There is great virtue in this man's life, quite apart from his artistic accomplishments. R.I.P.
17
He was drafted; he did not volunteer. And Benedikt was not a member of the Nazi party. But to set the record straight, I was a Boy Scout, an Eagle Scout at that. And although I reject that racist, homophobic, fundamentalist nationalist organization, that I now see as the US equivalent of the Hitler Youth, I will live for the rest of my life in shame for having failed to resist my parents' insistence that I join and embrace that organization.
Alas, we all make mistakes in our youth. But as adults, we can possibly redeem ourselves. I would say that Günter Grass was a better example of morality than any US president since Jimmy Carter. He, at least, never murdered anyone.
Alas, we all make mistakes in our youth. But as adults, we can possibly redeem ourselves. I would say that Günter Grass was a better example of morality than any US president since Jimmy Carter. He, at least, never murdered anyone.
6
Neither Pope Benedict nor Günter Grass were members of the Nazi Party. Both belonged to the Hitler Youth, where membership became mandatory in 1936. Parents who refused to allow their children to join were told they would have their children taken away.
"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." - attributed to Mark Twain
"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." - attributed to Mark Twain
4
The future Pope Benedict XVI, born Joseph Ratzinger, was forced to join the Hitler Youth and then, near the end of the war, was drafted into service in an anti-aircraft unit of the Luftwaffe. He was never a member of the Nazi Party. His parents were staunch anti-Nazis. He is mentioned in this very article and his own account of the events is given in his 1970s memoir "Milestones," still in print. His version of accounts has been substantiated by independent researchers, which is why, shortly after his election as Pope, the brief "controversy" that flared up quickly died down. In his case, he was what he said he was (a non-Nazi conscript). In Grass's case, matters are a bit different--both with respect to actual Nazi allegiance and with respect to later honesty. Nonetheless, perhaps Grass's understandable shame sharpened his own sensitivity to the seductiveness of power and wealth, thus both assisting him in his work and (owing to the long-born secret) lending to it its repetitive quality, as he sought to cast out from Germany a weight that he bore in his own heart.
2
He is a hypocrite, plain and simple. I don't blame people for feeling duped by his status as the "conscience of German WWII behavior". Imagine if the man had died before letting anybody know.
I think this fact rightly diminishes his greatness as a social activist, and makes it important to reexamine what he wrote and what he said in light of his hypocrisy. It makes me think less of him. It also shows something about the motivations behind the over-zealous: guilt. What he did to Jews and minorities during the war. He says he never fired a shot. Really? Should we believe him?
I wonder who besides his wife knew prior to 2006? Somebody must have, maybe even American army officials involved in WWII German citizen repatriation efforts into America and elsewhere. Who knew of this man during and directly after WWII? Are they still alive, with memories intact?
9
This is gross misinformation. Grass was DRAFTED at the age of 17 into the Waffen SS, a major branch of the German military with hundreds of thousands of troops, where he fought against the Russians on German soil and was wounded in action doing so.
2
@tcquinn at Fort Bragg, CA: what is gross misinformation is that the Waffen SS is a major branch of the German military. It began as the protective wing of the Nazi party, and was never part of the regular German army, although it became a formidable force in its own right. As for the rest of it, that was up to Mr. Grass, who apparently told no one but his wife that he had been a Nazi. He lied about his involvement for most of his life, even to his biographer, who was as surprised as anyone else when Mr. Grass admitted being in the Waffen SS in 2006. Where is the gross misinformation here about him being a hypocrite? If you were a Nazi, say you were a Nazi, then chide everyone in Germany and elsewhere about who the Nazis were and what they did. Lies and guilt. like so many Germans after WWII.
1
Without making judgement – it is important to note – and as the article points out – he was conscripted into the Waffen-SS. Conscription into this service began in 1943. This amounts to the difference between enlisting, which he did not, and being drafted, which he was. The conscripts were exempted from trial at Nuremburg reflecting the moral and ethical differences between conscripts and others servicing in the same service.
23
Grass was quoted as saying he had originally volunteered for the submarine service at age 15, but was not accepted.
1
Mr. Grass was no ordinary soldier.
See the video "The Unknown Soldier" (on Netflix or elsewhere) of an exhibit young Germans produced in 2004 documenting that the ordinary German soldier willingly participated in the sadistic murder of civilians—same as the SS.
Also a recent article shows that German women themselves participated in sadistic murders of Jews and other minorities.
There were over 300 concentration camps in Germany alone. Germany is 1/10 th the siize of the U.S. It was impossible for any citizen not to know what was going on in the murder camps.
“…an estimated 500,000 German women who went into the occupied East and thus undeniably stood in the killing fields…Some…were aides to so-called desk murderers, eagerly assisting their bosses. Others took part in the humiliation of Jews, or plundered their goods. Still others shot them from balconies or in forests. One smashed in a Jewish toddler’s head… “(from the book, “Hitler’s Furies”).
All Germans were well fed during the war because they expropriated food and clothing from the starving conquered nations which they used as slaves for production with the death of many.
Just remember the entire German nation of 90 million loved Hitler—until he started losing the war.
These dastardly deeds were also done by all the evil European nations—especially France whose army and navy fought against the Allies—who aided the Germans in their unholy war to Europe's everlasting damnation.
2
Eduard – That would have been 1928. The Nazi Party did not come to power until 1930.
Gunter Grass was one of the great European writers of the past century. The fact that he joined the SS as a naive 17-year-old a year before the war ended does little, at this date, to tarnish his reputation. I did not like his anti-Israeli statements, but I still regard him as a major writer, well worth reading.
19
No, he did not 'join' - he was conscripted or forced!!!
Actually, who really cares what Grass did as a young man. We now know that most Germans until the bitter end were enthusiastic supporters of Hitler and all that he did. So it's not surprising that Grass joined the Waffen SS. But Germany has really tried as a nation to make amends especially towards Israel for their war crimes and that is very commendable. That is in stark contrast to the Japanese. Indeed, Germany as a result of its horrendous treatment of the Jews in WW II remains one of Israeli's staunchest supporters, albeit with the exception of Gunter Grass.
11
It is disgusting to see the Times use the death of Grass as an occasion to engage in a meachy smear of him. In 1944 all German youth including teenagers had to go into the military or face retaliation, maybe death, for refusing. Who would, or should have to admit, that they were thus dragooned? The Times obituary uses every angle to chide Grass for his hiding "the facts," charging him with ( virtual) cowardice, and reciting every criticism that has been leveled at him since The Tin Drum.
For shame,Times!!!
For shame,Times!!!
54
This commenter uses the phrase "all German youth," writing that all were compelled to enter the military. So interesting that the writer does not consider the many German youths who were actually victims of Nazi oppression, terror, and genocide. We know that the Nazis did not consider these people to be actual Germans, but one would have thought that at this point in history, even while explaining the complicity of those who joined the Nazi movement, we could at least acknowledge that the oppressed, and not only the oppressors, were "German youths."
2
Agree wholeheartedly. A much more even-handed obituary about this complex person can be found here:
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/apr/13/gunter-grass
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/apr/13/gunter-grass
1
Actually, I think the article merely reports Grass' own self-chiding for having kept secret his involvement in the SS. What was the inscription he said was meant for himself? "I kept silent." Clearly, Grass himself felt shame for his failing to reveal his past until so late in the day.
I put Grass in the same rarefied atmosphere as Garcia Marquez vis-a-vis Cuba, and the dirty wars of Central and South America. The obverse of Grass would be Primo Levi, and Jerzy Kozinski, victims of Grass's Nazi compatriots, driving each finally to suicide. "And so it goes," an American war veteran wrote.
6
Grass was a 17 year old kid who was drafted into the service to defend his homeland against foreign invaders.
1
If Gunther Grass managed to incur the wrath of Netanyahu, then Grass is okay by me. From what I have read of Grass, I agree with his views on nationalism and war.
42
Based on that "reasoning' are Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, and Joe Stalin, all of whom incur Netanyahu's wrath also "okay by you"?
1
The comments here excusing his membership in the Waffen SS miss the point. If his membership was "coerced" or was otherwise innocuous, why did Gunter Grass felt the need to hide it? And it was not passive hiding, he actively concealed his deadly service by writing and saying he was involved in much less barbaric military jobs. Most important, and unlike artists like Picasso whose work we can admire without reference to their personal lives, Grass's work was inherently political, and so his hypocrisy cuts to the heart of his writing.
16
Excellent point.
1
Yes, that was what I was going to write-that is the point. He was drafted, he was young, it was a world falling apart, but why did he have the need to hide it. It is particularly distressing given his political activism, and his high moral judgements on others.
1
He felt the need to hide it because, although he was conscripted, he was also (by his own admission near the end of this article) enamored of the vision of the SS. He was happy to be there. Nonetheless, I'm not sure that this makes him a hypocrite; hiding it makes him a cowards, but perhaps his memory of youthful naivete (or even something darker) lent a certain acuity to his own sense of what had gone wrong in those years.
He has worn out the hate for the german narcism (no spelling error) which we know now was something very personal.
It must feel like an iraq veteran, with post-traumatic stress disorder, to denounce the complacency of dick cheney or donald rumsfeld.
He was writing against the evil, that does not come with a gun, but ends with a gun.
It must feel like an iraq veteran, with post-traumatic stress disorder, to denounce the complacency of dick cheney or donald rumsfeld.
He was writing against the evil, that does not come with a gun, but ends with a gun.
15
What is "narcism"? Do you mean "narcissism"? I don't understand the "no spelling error" tag.
Rationalize away, but we went into Iraq to depose a horrible tyrant, the opposite of what Grass did in the war. Try harder neXt time.
Mr. Grass may have been brainwashed at the age of 17, but why was he hiding his Waffen-SS memebership for such as long time? The simple truth is that he was worried about his money and status.
8
Uhh, maybe 'cuz the SS was the most evil political-military organization of the 20th century, and possibly all of history.
It's amazing to me how many of you are willing to forgive SS membership as a "youthful indiscretion". I bet you are okay with suing a bakery to cater a gay wedding though. It's amazing how nimble the morality and ideology of the left are when it comes to forgiving the unforgivable.
It's amazing to me how many of you are willing to forgive SS membership as a "youthful indiscretion". I bet you are okay with suing a bakery to cater a gay wedding though. It's amazing how nimble the morality and ideology of the left are when it comes to forgiving the unforgivable.
7
Yes, and the confederacy might have been one of the most evil political-military organizations of the 19th century. It doesn't get much worse than slavery. But I doubt you're campaigning against Civil War re-enactments or protesting confederate flags.
5
There is a difference between youthful ignorance and sustained ignorance. The bigotry you speak of--refusing to cater a wedding for gays--is the type of prejudice we are trying to eradicate. That goal may not be best achieved through legislation--morality cannot and should not always be legislated--but it should be pursued. That is a different attack than one leveled at someone for his actions at the age of 17--not to mention the fact that he was conscripted.
Mr. Grass said "What Must Be Said."
Who has listened?
Who has listened?
6
As a child, I intensely disliked the German language for all the good reasons that others have done as well. As an adult, I studied German, to understand operas I liked, and accidentally came across the the Tin Drum, loved it, and often, alone, traveling in my car, would listen and still enjoy listening to Grass reading it. It's a wonderful book but when I finished Dog Years, also in German, I was glad it's over - there are many things I disliked about it, like the depiction of a semi-semite.
For me he is an artist with at least one work that I like a lot. There are other artists who were geniuses at what they did and yet lots of NYT readers would find faults with their less than perfect lives. When I look at Picasso's works that I like I don't worry about how he was as a human being. It would be interesting to see a list of artists and a list of their less than perfect deeds not as artists but as human beings. At the top of the list might be the 53 year old man who married a 16 year old girl and whose paintings are rightly in all the major museums of the world. (Rubens.)
For me he is an artist with at least one work that I like a lot. There are other artists who were geniuses at what they did and yet lots of NYT readers would find faults with their less than perfect lives. When I look at Picasso's works that I like I don't worry about how he was as a human being. It would be interesting to see a list of artists and a list of their less than perfect deeds not as artists but as human beings. At the top of the list might be the 53 year old man who married a 16 year old girl and whose paintings are rightly in all the major museums of the world. (Rubens.)
46
Uhh, but Picasso wasn't in the SS. The equivalence doesn't work. See my comment earlier for a precis of the Nazi SS - there is no forgiving joining the SS. None. Ever. But I bet you can really work up hatred for the Tea Party, right?
4
Conscription is not the same as joining. At 17 what choice does one have? This does not completely absolve the man: we don't know the specifics of what choices he had afterward, but certainly there is more complexity to the position than you suggest. And yes, I hate the Tea Party.
3
Um, yeah Glenn, neither does that equivalence.
2
Günter Grass has been an example of morality and sincerity in all his life.
He always called a spade a spade, an example is his frank declaration to have served during WWII as Waffen-SS, also if he dreamed to go into a Submarine.
Günter Grass was since the end of the war a true social-democrat, having understood that only being a democrat meant pursuing his freedom principles, which were negated during his youth.
Israel called him for his ideas “person non grata”, which sounds as an honor in the today's Israel.
As writer he had the great ability to describe his life and feelings from different vantage points, always coming out with a different realistic novel, never following the wave but always being himself.
I think he had those qualities, principles and virtues as morality, sincerity, democratic freedom will and nonconformist behavior are rare in those days, but I want to be positive because in Germany, or elsewhere not to be nationalist, there are young writers which might have hidden qualities and sensibilities as the Günter Grass' ones.
Farewell Maestro.
He always called a spade a spade, an example is his frank declaration to have served during WWII as Waffen-SS, also if he dreamed to go into a Submarine.
Günter Grass was since the end of the war a true social-democrat, having understood that only being a democrat meant pursuing his freedom principles, which were negated during his youth.
Israel called him for his ideas “person non grata”, which sounds as an honor in the today's Israel.
As writer he had the great ability to describe his life and feelings from different vantage points, always coming out with a different realistic novel, never following the wave but always being himself.
I think he had those qualities, principles and virtues as morality, sincerity, democratic freedom will and nonconformist behavior are rare in those days, but I want to be positive because in Germany, or elsewhere not to be nationalist, there are young writers which might have hidden qualities and sensibilities as the Günter Grass' ones.
Farewell Maestro.
18
"Although he was conscripted into the SS in 1944, near the end of World War II..."
So he had no choice in the matter. Towards the end of the war Nazi Germany was conscripting old men and kids into the Wehrmacht and the SS were conscripting any men they could get.
So he had no choice in the matter. Towards the end of the war Nazi Germany was conscripting old men and kids into the Wehrmacht and the SS were conscripting any men they could get.
25
"Nazi Germany was conscripting old men and kids into the Wehrmacht and the SS were conscripting any men they could get."
I beg your pardon, but this is wrong. Old men (until 60) and teenagers were conscripted into the "Volkssturm," paramilitary defense units to fight tanks and advancing troops with light weaponry.
What is true is that the Waffen-SS actively recruited boys younger than 18 through advertising and propaganda (going into school classes etc.), promising them that they would fare better in the Waffen-SS (newer weapons, nicer uniforms, "elite" forces etc.) than in the regular army. Many youngsters fell for this.
By the way, Grass did not write that he was conscripted or forced to join--he admitted that it was his choice.
I beg your pardon, but this is wrong. Old men (until 60) and teenagers were conscripted into the "Volkssturm," paramilitary defense units to fight tanks and advancing troops with light weaponry.
What is true is that the Waffen-SS actively recruited boys younger than 18 through advertising and propaganda (going into school classes etc.), promising them that they would fare better in the Waffen-SS (newer weapons, nicer uniforms, "elite" forces etc.) than in the regular army. Many youngsters fell for this.
By the way, Grass did not write that he was conscripted or forced to join--he admitted that it was his choice.
Many Germans asked and received permission to be just a soldier not par of the barbarous SS.
Grass made his choice, he wanted to be part of the SS.
He never regretted it.
I read Mr Grass' "Peeling the Onion." I found his depiction of German life before, during and after the most informative, I was nevertheless disappointed at his SS involvement, yet gladdened he peeled away layers of his life - to include his SS involvement.
Unlike regular German soldiers, Nazi SS swore allegiance, not to Germany - but, to Hitler - it was a murderous unit; they rarely took prisoners. Yet Mr Grass wrote he never fired a gun, seemingly unaware that one need not brandish a weapon in order to participate in genocide.
Seems to me his writings, and the life he lived, contributes to better deciphering, not only the "German Mystique," but also the numerous phases of one man's life - some shameful, yet others redemptive and marvelous.
Unlike regular German soldiers, Nazi SS swore allegiance, not to Germany - but, to Hitler - it was a murderous unit; they rarely took prisoners. Yet Mr Grass wrote he never fired a gun, seemingly unaware that one need not brandish a weapon in order to participate in genocide.
Seems to me his writings, and the life he lived, contributes to better deciphering, not only the "German Mystique," but also the numerous phases of one man's life - some shameful, yet others redemptive and marvelous.
5
Not actually true. All German soldiers (and even civil servants) swore an oath to Hitler. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_oath
It's quite a shame Grass didn't admit from beginning the circumstances of his membership in the SS. If anything, it's a truth that makes his work more relevant.
It's quite a shame Grass didn't admit from beginning the circumstances of his membership in the SS. If anything, it's a truth that makes his work more relevant.
5
You are kidding, right? Do you count wikipedia as accurate source? Really!
1
Yes, exactly this! Shame is a dark and powerful emotion and people do all manner of things to hide their shame. We cannot presume to judge the effect his experience had on the inner life of this man. But imagine if he had been able to overcome his shame sooner.
I think the outrage at Mr. Grass being a member of the SS is a little misplaced. Doing the math on this, I figure he joined the SS at the age of 16, 71 years ago. He wasn't involved for long, as Germany was losing throughout '44 and surrendered 5/7/45, when Mr. Grass was about 17.
How can anyone expect a guy to make the best moral choice at 16, when he's grown up knowing basically nothing but war, and when deciding not to join probably would have meant torture and death for him or his family? He wasn't some Goebbels, controlling the most evil movement of the 20th century, he was some scared kid born into the wrong country. Don't tell me the firebombing of Dresden wasn't scary for Germans.
So I think all of the criticism leveled at Mr. Grass about joining the SS is simpleminded, lacking in empathy, and completely unaware of the milieu he found himself in.
And people can complain about him hiding this fairly harmless past (I doubt he did much damage at 16), but if he hadn't, his message would have been dismissed automatically. And that would have been a shame, because he had a good message overall (maybe a little extreme on some points), and it was probably stronger coming from someone who had been witness to the evils of mob mentality, tribalism, and a cult of personality. These same evils are at work across the Mideast today, and if an ex-al qaeda member wants to rail against them and campaign for peace, he shouldn't be ignored due to his past either.
How can anyone expect a guy to make the best moral choice at 16, when he's grown up knowing basically nothing but war, and when deciding not to join probably would have meant torture and death for him or his family? He wasn't some Goebbels, controlling the most evil movement of the 20th century, he was some scared kid born into the wrong country. Don't tell me the firebombing of Dresden wasn't scary for Germans.
So I think all of the criticism leveled at Mr. Grass about joining the SS is simpleminded, lacking in empathy, and completely unaware of the milieu he found himself in.
And people can complain about him hiding this fairly harmless past (I doubt he did much damage at 16), but if he hadn't, his message would have been dismissed automatically. And that would have been a shame, because he had a good message overall (maybe a little extreme on some points), and it was probably stronger coming from someone who had been witness to the evils of mob mentality, tribalism, and a cult of personality. These same evils are at work across the Mideast today, and if an ex-al qaeda member wants to rail against them and campaign for peace, he shouldn't be ignored due to his past either.
43
Others at the same or nearly the same age as Grass died, gillotined for distributing anti-Nazi materials. Others volunteered to be medics to avoid killings. Others hid out to avoid service. And by the time Grass joined, my German friends say, the anti-Hitler jokes were everywhere. Like the Jews, Russians, Gypsies whose pajamas were seen by millions. He was blind as aman, not a "child". He lied as an olderman, not a kid. He told the truth just before someone else was publishing it. Revere a coward, an SS-sympathizer, a Jew-hater? Just because you like fiction he wrote? Eichmann built good car parts in Argentina ...
Criticizing Israel government policy does not make Mr. Grass an anti-semite anymore than him criticizing an American government policy made him anti-American.
Geez, Louise.
Geez, Louise.
41
My late father was 1 month & 14 days younger than Mr. Grass. He wasn't old enough to go into the army until 1946, so I doubt Mr. Grass had much choice in 1944 when he would have been 17 years old at the most. Has anyone else ever heard of a 17 year old being a member of the "elite Waffen-SS?"
Even in desperation at the end of the war an 18 year old Gunter Grass would have wielded very little power if any at all.
Even in desperation at the end of the war an 18 year old Gunter Grass would have wielded very little power if any at all.
19
Remember the German excuse:
"I was just following orders."
Yeah, sure.
Bashing in babies heads was just "following orders."
"I was just following orders."
Yeah, sure.
Bashing in babies heads was just "following orders."
Thousands joined every year at that age. There is a vast difference between ordinary Wehrmacht draftees and SS enlistees, as any WWII history book would show you.
Gosh, we just hate it when magnificent writers are just real human beings, huh?
Maybe we should just stop lionizing people, in general. I've learned that the hard way, over the years. Wikipedia's the main source of my pain, as I discover what the real lives were like of authors whose creative genius has informed or enriched or profoundly affected my own life.
But I'd like to see anyone having grown up in the place and time that Grass did, and not be a complex stew of rage, shame, the burning desire to rectify irreparable wrongs and the hunger for personal and national redemption.
Maybe we should just stop lionizing people, in general. I've learned that the hard way, over the years. Wikipedia's the main source of my pain, as I discover what the real lives were like of authors whose creative genius has informed or enriched or profoundly affected my own life.
But I'd like to see anyone having grown up in the place and time that Grass did, and not be a complex stew of rage, shame, the burning desire to rectify irreparable wrongs and the hunger for personal and national redemption.
20
The complaints about his military service were not justified. They are the 20/20 hindsight complaints of those on the outside looking in.
Look at Grass's age during the last years of the war. He had 0% chance of avoiding national war service. None! *All* boys, seminarians included (like Pope Benedict) were pulled and put into something - usually ugly, cruel, and way beyond their years. To refuse would likely get them sent to a slave labor camp, or shot. This was hard life for German youth, including many even younger than him.
He kept quiet... of course he did. It was likely horrific. It was a form of child abuse. There was likely nothing to be proud of and much to forget. To blame him and others is to blame the victim for not coming clean on horrors inflicted. Of course he was anti-war! Who would not be after that!?
It's sad that ignorance of history is an excuse for "righteous anger" afterwards. People were also shocked about the Pope too. Why? This is what is meant to fight a "Total War." It is beyond terrible, but it's reality. It is not a flaw of his, but rather an unavoidable, horrible event that made him who and what he was.
It is time that we all come clean and let these young men out of the prison of shame regarding things they had no choice about. Some Nazis can be blamed, but not the children.
Any men of around his age from Germany, or true war experts, feel free to reply, and detail how it *really* was for the teenage boys of Germany.
Look at Grass's age during the last years of the war. He had 0% chance of avoiding national war service. None! *All* boys, seminarians included (like Pope Benedict) were pulled and put into something - usually ugly, cruel, and way beyond their years. To refuse would likely get them sent to a slave labor camp, or shot. This was hard life for German youth, including many even younger than him.
He kept quiet... of course he did. It was likely horrific. It was a form of child abuse. There was likely nothing to be proud of and much to forget. To blame him and others is to blame the victim for not coming clean on horrors inflicted. Of course he was anti-war! Who would not be after that!?
It's sad that ignorance of history is an excuse for "righteous anger" afterwards. People were also shocked about the Pope too. Why? This is what is meant to fight a "Total War." It is beyond terrible, but it's reality. It is not a flaw of his, but rather an unavoidable, horrible event that made him who and what he was.
It is time that we all come clean and let these young men out of the prison of shame regarding things they had no choice about. Some Nazis can be blamed, but not the children.
Any men of around his age from Germany, or true war experts, feel free to reply, and detail how it *really* was for the teenage boys of Germany.
129
Grass admitted his war past as a drafted member of the SS (age 17). It's all well and good to condemn a youth who spent his entire conscious life until then under the sway of intense, unrelenting propaganda. When you are underage, and that's all you've been exposed to, and your country is coming apart at the seams... it's quite understandable.
What's far more noteworthy is what Grass did after he gained an alternate, wider point of view during the Nazi Trials after the war. It's fair to say that dealing with his realization and its aftermath not only became much of his life work, but did much to help entire generations of post war Germans come to grips with the entire experience and that period in their national history. That is a worthy legacy indeed.
What's far more noteworthy is what Grass did after he gained an alternate, wider point of view during the Nazi Trials after the war. It's fair to say that dealing with his realization and its aftermath not only became much of his life work, but did much to help entire generations of post war Germans come to grips with the entire experience and that period in their national history. That is a worthy legacy indeed.
3
A very helpful, well thought out comment.
1
During the Vietnam War, I remember that some of the most vehement participants in the antiwar movement were veterans who had been sent there to fight. Most had been drafted, but some had enlisted. Who can better know and describe the horrors of war than those who had experienced it themselves, especially those who had been very young at the time.
3
Reading these comments makes me truly sad to be an American, knowing so many of my fellow citizens - and supposedly smart, informed ones - cannot even manage to see the clear cut evil of the Nazi SS. If I have to explain it to you, that means you either know nothing of the actual history of the SS or you are so morally confused that you don't care about it - in either event, if you think this is something that can be forgiven, you are nutz.
The Nazi SS were the worst of the worst, from the '20s on. They were the armed wing of the Nazi party and were intentionally kept separated from the regular army. They swore an oath of allegiance to Hitler and only Hitler. The SS is responsible for tens of millions of deaths of people in WWII - we couldn't identify an organization more singularly morally responsible for the horrors of Nazi German than the U.S.
From Kristallnacht to the burning of the Reichstag to beating Communists in the streests in Berlin in the '20s to running Auschwitz - the SS were in charge. Their brutality was legendary and on the battlefield they routinely committed war crimes by slaughtering captives and civilians in massive numbers. Think Ghengis Khan kind of brutality and you start to get the picture.
Voluntarily joining such an organization is simply unforgivable and removes anyone who does from moral company or consideration. There is nothing to be conflicted about.
The Nazi SS were the worst of the worst, from the '20s on. They were the armed wing of the Nazi party and were intentionally kept separated from the regular army. They swore an oath of allegiance to Hitler and only Hitler. The SS is responsible for tens of millions of deaths of people in WWII - we couldn't identify an organization more singularly morally responsible for the horrors of Nazi German than the U.S.
From Kristallnacht to the burning of the Reichstag to beating Communists in the streests in Berlin in the '20s to running Auschwitz - the SS were in charge. Their brutality was legendary and on the battlefield they routinely committed war crimes by slaughtering captives and civilians in massive numbers. Think Ghengis Khan kind of brutality and you start to get the picture.
Voluntarily joining such an organization is simply unforgivable and removes anyone who does from moral company or consideration. There is nothing to be conflicted about.
5
Grass was born in 1927. By the age of 17, the Third Reich was the only regime he ever lived under in his conscious memory. He did not have the benefit of a free press, a free society, or free speech. Please consider that this was a world in which civilians lived under threat of violence from their own government and that Nazis were plenty comfortable committing atrocities against their own people. Gunter Grass was not Heinrich Himmler, he was a 17 year-old conscript in a war he did not start nor understand. We can place the blame for SS atrocities and Auschwitz and Kristallnacht where it is due, at the clear-cut evil feet of Hitler and Himmler and their cronies, not on the shoulders of a 17 year old who grappled with his shame for the rest of his life.
Dear Glenn,
I don't think a single one of us thinks Hitler was something other than the pinnacle of evil in the 20th century (oddly there were plenty of other pinnacles in previous centuries). Nor is anyone praising the SS here.
But what you fail to realize is that Mr. Grass, and everyone else after 1943, didn't voluntarily join up with the Nazis. They were conscripted, and anyone refusing was likely imprisoned, tortured, their families threatened or killed, and near the end anyone refusing to serve was just shot on the spot.
Could you really die just to refuse to join such an army, when your nation and homeland was under attack, when you were 16 years old? If you say yes, I can't believe that.
I don't think a single one of us thinks Hitler was something other than the pinnacle of evil in the 20th century (oddly there were plenty of other pinnacles in previous centuries). Nor is anyone praising the SS here.
But what you fail to realize is that Mr. Grass, and everyone else after 1943, didn't voluntarily join up with the Nazis. They were conscripted, and anyone refusing was likely imprisoned, tortured, their families threatened or killed, and near the end anyone refusing to serve was just shot on the spot.
Could you really die just to refuse to join such an army, when your nation and homeland was under attack, when you were 16 years old? If you say yes, I can't believe that.
But he didn't join voluntarily - he was drafted, or otherwise coerced.
1
How much more impact would Grass's anti-war message have had initially as coming from an ex-SS trooper! What if Robert McNamara had initially denounced the U.S. role in Vietnam instead of waiting until after that historical mistake was repeated again and again? Who can better understand and explain the mistakes of war than the architects and elite soldiers of war?
8
To Times Readers:
Could Herr Grass have been motivated to compensate in his mature art for the Faustian bargain of his teen-age years? Is nobody asking this question? It seems so many are out to condemn his legacy.
Yet we are asked constantly to forgive mature people for their vast deceptions (regarding WMDs, carcinogens in tobacco, etc) who change the subject or change their names in attempting to erase their guilt.
We can only speculate about Grass. I, however, believe his novels expiate the indiscretion of his youth. Perhaps the only way one can write The Tin Drum is to have seen the depth of Nazi evil.
Submitted by ROGER LATZGO www.rogerlatzgo.com Germansville PA
Could Herr Grass have been motivated to compensate in his mature art for the Faustian bargain of his teen-age years? Is nobody asking this question? It seems so many are out to condemn his legacy.
Yet we are asked constantly to forgive mature people for their vast deceptions (regarding WMDs, carcinogens in tobacco, etc) who change the subject or change their names in attempting to erase their guilt.
We can only speculate about Grass. I, however, believe his novels expiate the indiscretion of his youth. Perhaps the only way one can write The Tin Drum is to have seen the depth of Nazi evil.
Submitted by ROGER LATZGO www.rogerlatzgo.com Germansville PA
12
As they said when Siegried Sassoon died, finally now the war is over. Those who rmember the cataclysm (no other word) of the mid-20th century must surely have viewed ordinary life in this century like aliens. Someday we will have a Middle Eastern Grass, and an African one (many). I await their messages anxiously.
3
Entirely shameful! This article's depiction of Grass' participation in the war is unworthy of the New York Times. Grass was drafted into a tank division of the notorious Waffen-SS on 10th November 1944. He was wounded on 20th April 1945 and taken prisoner by US forces on 8th May 1945. By giving centre stage to six months of his life as a 17 year old, a period he was ashamed of all his adult life, this artice is extremely unfair to the memory Guether Grass.
Grass published many anthologies throughout his creative life. With what justification does Mr. Kinzer single out one poem, distiguished only by the fact that Benjamin Netanyahu took offence?
Grass published many anthologies throughout his creative life. With what justification does Mr. Kinzer single out one poem, distiguished only by the fact that Benjamin Netanyahu took offence?
32
I'm not sure why the media always overinflate Grass's participation in WWII. He was drafted (forced to participate) as a teen in the latter days of the war. He deserted as soon as he could. That does not diminish Grass's role as a moral conscience nor make him a hypocrite.
11
The fact that Grass served in an SS unit and the fact that he concealed that service are inarguable. Whether those facts cloud his writerly reputation is an individual determination by his readers, but it is hardly to be dismissed as the subject of an obituary.
3
This article cites the fact that "he was never accused of participating in atrocities", despite being a member of the waffen ss, as if this plainly puts him in the clear of being under suspicion of having taken part in the massive number of atrocities that was the mission of the waffen ss.
However the only way that people in the ss have been accused of taking part in subhuman actions, are not by the records of the ss, as those records were thoroughly destroyed after the war. It has always been through some outside evidence, many times witnesses.
Therefore a member of the waffen ss who has not been accused of taking part in the activities which were the very purpose of that organization, is by no means at all an indication that they did not take part. It means nothing more than there was no external evidence of it that managed to make its way to the attention of authorities who were interested in those things at the time.
And the fact of the matter as to whether he participated in the crimes of the waffen ss comes down to one basic factor, was he in the wrong place at the wrong time or not, places that his organization sought out to be.
There is also something in the very fact that he was ready and willing to commit horrific crimes, something that is beyond the contemplation of any civilized person.
As such the matter of a person once being a member of the waffen ss stays with them forever, and is allot more than an issue of failure to disclose.
However the only way that people in the ss have been accused of taking part in subhuman actions, are not by the records of the ss, as those records were thoroughly destroyed after the war. It has always been through some outside evidence, many times witnesses.
Therefore a member of the waffen ss who has not been accused of taking part in the activities which were the very purpose of that organization, is by no means at all an indication that they did not take part. It means nothing more than there was no external evidence of it that managed to make its way to the attention of authorities who were interested in those things at the time.
And the fact of the matter as to whether he participated in the crimes of the waffen ss comes down to one basic factor, was he in the wrong place at the wrong time or not, places that his organization sought out to be.
There is also something in the very fact that he was ready and willing to commit horrific crimes, something that is beyond the contemplation of any civilized person.
As such the matter of a person once being a member of the waffen ss stays with them forever, and is allot more than an issue of failure to disclose.
3
I think that you should consider yourself lucky that you were not born in that time as a German youth. Either way you were doomed. If you were aryan, you were forced in the Wehrmacht or the Waffen SS. The SS were the elite because they were tall and athletic, sort of like the Marines. If you refused you got shot & your family sent to a concentration camp for treason. If you were born Jewish, you were sent to a concentration camp or could try to flee and hide.... To me they were all victims. My father was drafted at 15 in the Wehrmacht though he was selected to
join the SS but he refused because the SS were against christianity that was considered by the Nazis as a Jewish religion...and he did not want to give up his faith. He was shooting on allied planes. He came back from the war at 16 damaged like all those who witnessed the attrocities of ww2
join the SS but he refused because the SS were against christianity that was considered by the Nazis as a Jewish religion...and he did not want to give up his faith. He was shooting on allied planes. He came back from the war at 16 damaged like all those who witnessed the attrocities of ww2
Mr. Grass was happy to criticize capitalism, despite its record of lifting nearly 1 billion people out of poverty over the last 20 years. Yet he would never disparage the enslavement of millions by Communism. His hidden past reveals his enthrallment with totalitarianism. His later life merely substituted Communism for National Socialism.
5
Have you ever even read Grass' books or seen any of the movies? He fought against the subjugation of his fellow countrymen by Communism by the Soviet Army. The Tin Drum alludes to all this: the rape and murder of its principal characters by Soviet troops in March and April of 1945.
Mr. Grass personifies the caterpillar turned butterfly. A man of contradictions who hid behind a past he probably regretted. Only a German who was so deeply embedded during those cataclysmic years can come to terms with something so horrific. He best summed up centuries of German history as a failure; not just the failure of Nazism, but the failure of the militaristic and chauvinistic ways of his people. He best described the devolution the German people and culture. Should he be lauded for this exercise or should we just consider him to be another one of the wounded by the German empire?
5
Notably, Gunter hid his membership in the SS, (by the way it is irrelevant that his membership began one year before the end of the war). To be a member of the SS one had to be of pure "Aryan Ancestry" and ascribe to the political ideology of the SS. This calls into question among other arenas his criticism of Israel. Raising the question could, his criticism of Israel be separated from the antisemitic racist ideology he espoused in order to become an SS member, particularly in light of his failure to admit his SS membership until 2006.
3
Only joining one year before the end of the war does matter. From wikipedia:
"During the Nuremberg Trials, the Waffen-SS was declared a criminal organisation, except conscripts from 1943 onward, who were exempted from that judgement as they had been forced to join."
Also, the requirement for Aryan ancestry was apparently relaxed in 1940.
"During the Nuremberg Trials, the Waffen-SS was declared a criminal organisation, except conscripts from 1943 onward, who were exempted from that judgement as they had been forced to join."
Also, the requirement for Aryan ancestry was apparently relaxed in 1940.
10
Levi: You are wrong. This was not the organization Grass was drafted into as a 17 year old infantryman in November 1944.
The comments that dismiss Grass and his writing because he joined the Waffen SS as a youth seem to me to be very mean spirited. Who amongst us can say what we would have done if we were children raised in the atmosphere of the Third Reich? He changed and he fought his entire life for the antithesis of Nazism and it seems to me that this is worthy of celebration. Justice Black was a member of the Klan as a young man and Robert Kennedy worked with Roy Cohn and Joseph Mccarthy as a youg man but they too changed and we value the totality of their lives.
122
The problem that some have with Grass is that he was so self righteous and viewed himself as superior to the average person when in fact he was just an average person. The product was fraudulently represented.
2
I am sorry. Stop whitewashing the disingenuity of a man who condemned Bitburg yet was a Waffen SS man himself. membership in the SS, as oppposed to being a German, constitutes an agreement with the purposes and the criminal activities of the SS, to wit: the destruction of the Jewish people. Gunther Grass can write all he wants. He can win the Nobel he can be a poet laureate. But in the final analysis he was a lying member of a criminal terrorist genocidal organization which killed 6,000,000 of my people for no reason at all. That is what is wrong here. And stop justifying this by Grass' age at the time. A 16 year old and a 17 year old and an 18 year old know full well what the word MURDER means. And in 1944, the SS and Waffen SS and Algemeine SS and Totenkopf SS, as well as the SD and the Gestapo were all involved in the task that separates them from humanity as a whole: the Final Solution to the Jewish Question, to wit: MASS MURDER>
2
<>
Me. Because I would have been sent to Treblinka and gassed, Sir Abbott Hall. Read the Nuremberg Trial transcript and stop whitewashing Nazis. If one joins ISIS or joins the SS, then one is you are responsible for what they do. Respondeat superior.
Me. Because I would have been sent to Treblinka and gassed, Sir Abbott Hall. Read the Nuremberg Trial transcript and stop whitewashing Nazis. If one joins ISIS or joins the SS, then one is you are responsible for what they do. Respondeat superior.
A wonderful, superbly moral thinker who I will not be forgetting and will refer to with anticipation and admiration in future.
18
Gunter Grass was a literary genius, innovative imaginary, the creator of unsurpassed passion, the man unabashed by the furor that his words produced. His confession should be taken with deep reflection rather than with packaged criticism, which stems from mistaken thinking in absolutist terms. Gunter Grass' SS past was not unique, it happened to many, who, in the hindsight, are horrified and even afraid to this day to confess because we are so judgmental from our naive understanding of historical contexts and their affect on us. Grass' experience is what propelled his activism, gave it a deeper perspective, shaped his relentless campaign to help the country as a whole face the horror of the past. Not many can turn their personal cross into the crusade for larger truth. And that's what Grass did throughout his life. His literary and civic legacy will endure.
160
The "personal cross" has to be based on a foundation of honesty, above all honesty with one's self. This is neither judgmental nor naive. People are not perfect and make mistakes, certainly, even collectively as a society. But to move beyond our very human foibles, we have to recognize and learn from our errors so as not to repeat the same bad behaviors. That, in fact, constitutes moral conduct and is the minimum standard of morality we can expect from ourselves and others. Guenter Grass did not meet this standard. He was unable to be honest with himself. In fact, he was dishonest with himself and others, and pasted over of his own past, equivocating until the very end. True, Grass's own moral equivocation, hypocrisy and revisionism had a long tradition in German culture, a tradition that ultimately led to a previously unfathomable level of state-sanctioned crime. It was Hoelderlin who long before had criticized his fellow Germans as "tatenarm und gedankenvoll" (poor in deed but rich in thought). Fortunately, however, a great portion of Germans today have firmly rejected this facile and, indeed, cowardly view of morality with its predilection for conveniently skipping over scrutiny of the consequences of individual actions. So posterity will indeed remember Guenter Grass for what he was: a pathetic moral weakling, like too many of his criminal generation.
1
"Why was he attracted to the SS as a teenager?
“It was the newsreels,” he concluded. “I was a pushover for the prettified black-and-white ‘truth’ they served up.”
************
If a young man like Mr. Grass can be sucked into the SS, then is it any wonder that a lot of young men and women are being sucked into things like ISIS?
I wish Mr. Grass has spent some of his great talent in his last few years delving into this phenomenon with what was his unique perspective.
“It was the newsreels,” he concluded. “I was a pushover for the prettified black-and-white ‘truth’ they served up.”
************
If a young man like Mr. Grass can be sucked into the SS, then is it any wonder that a lot of young men and women are being sucked into things like ISIS?
I wish Mr. Grass has spent some of his great talent in his last few years delving into this phenomenon with what was his unique perspective.
44
No, the germans back than had only the national media, they were indoctrinated.
The youth today have to be deliberate selective to ignore the terroristic mindset of the daesh.
The youth today have to be deliberate selective to ignore the terroristic mindset of the daesh.
2
JD, he spent his whole life delving into this phenomenon. If you haven't read "The Tin Drum," that's a place to start.
Most men and women of Grass' generation had some kind of involvement with National Socialism. It was inescapable. The father of a friend of mine in Austria fought for the Third Reich in WWII. On a visit to Austria, I met some of his professors in Graz, who fought on the Eastern Front against the Soviet Union. Did I feel any outrage toward them for defending one of the most despicable regimes in history? No, absolutely not, they were soldiers doing what they had to do. The world should look upon Herr Grass through the same lens and appreciate him for his contributions to literature and intellectual discourse rather than his association with National Socialism.
24
I served in the army in Germany in 1952-1954. The male Germans I
met all claimed they fought on the Eastern front.
met all claimed they fought on the Eastern front.
1
The Wehrmacht was just army, the SS was ideological and open about its aims and methods. Read "The Kindly ones" by Lonathon Litell for a picture of the blood-maddened, racist, sexist SS "boys". It won several prizes in Europe and sold hundreds of thousands of copies. No crocodile tears and reborn notions, please, the guy joined the worst elements of German society. If I joined the KKK and hid it, would you vote for me, trust me? Ever hear of David Duke?
Grass wrote brilliantly and searingly about the insanity of war. For this, the United States can never forgive him. War and destruction are points of honor and causes for celebration....so long as they are carried out by OUR military, not those awful Germans who lacked our high moral character, (witnessed in such places as Nagasaki, My Lai, Haditha, Fallujah..)
46
I've read a few comments here suggesting that the Waffen S.S. was voluntary only. That does not seem to be the case. According to Wikipedia, conscription began being used by the Waffen S.S. later in the war. "Waffen-SS veterans were denied many of the rights afforded to veterans who had served in the Heer (army), Luftwaffe (air force), or Kriegsmarine (navy). An exception was made for Waffen-SS conscripts sworn in after 1943, who were exempted because of their involuntary servitude."
I don't know ultimately how important this distinction is in this discussion, but it seems like a good idea to clarify such things.
I don't know ultimately how important this distinction is in this discussion, but it seems like a good idea to clarify such things.
20
Yes - always good to have the facts.
But the fact is that regardless of whether others were conscripted, Grass admitted he was seduced by Nazi propaganda - the "pretty black and white pictures" - and joined the SS voluntarily.
On the other hand, he WAS only 16 or 17 - and grew up knowing only Nazi propaganda and nothing else.
Seems to me that today's young ISIS recruits - especially those who are educated and media-savvy, particularly those raised in the West - are more culpable than Grass, even though they are just as gullible, hormone-driven, and lacking in sufficient brain development to exercise good judgment.
But the fact is that regardless of whether others were conscripted, Grass admitted he was seduced by Nazi propaganda - the "pretty black and white pictures" - and joined the SS voluntarily.
On the other hand, he WAS only 16 or 17 - and grew up knowing only Nazi propaganda and nothing else.
Seems to me that today's young ISIS recruits - especially those who are educated and media-savvy, particularly those raised in the West - are more culpable than Grass, even though they are just as gullible, hormone-driven, and lacking in sufficient brain development to exercise good judgment.
1
It is too bad that this article begins with so much emphasis on Grass's "membership" of the Waffen SS without giving any context of the state of Grass's unit when he briefly joined it as a teenager (it consisted of teenagers and old men who basically served as cannon fodder in the closing months of the war). This is not to excuse Grass's withholding of that information for so long but the common images associated with Waffen SS do not apply here.
81
12-year-old Germans handled the Panzerfaust very well for their country.
They destroyed many tanks with this basic weapon.
They might be excused.
Not 17-year-old SS youth.
2
I will mourn this man deeply. He had a huge effect on me as a writer, and, yes, as a Jew. If he had written nothing but "The Tin Drum" he would have been one of my literary heroes of all time. The little person who refuses to grow because of the madness surrounding him, both as a survival tactic and a way of observing, unnoticed and protected, that madness, was and is enough for me to love him always. RIP, dear Gunter. And thank you for the wisdom, the pictures and the words.
91
I am Jewish and I'm utterly disgusted by this editorial. One of the greatest writers of the past century passes, and what do we have up near the lead of the story? His views on Israel and Iran -- which are hardly unique, with which many people agree -- and Netanyahu's response. Something is really wrong here. I expect more from the Times.
199
Thanks for saying so, Linda. (My 20 or so similar comments did not make it past the NYT censors.)
24
I meant to say obituary; but it is an editorial. I read The Tin Drum when i was a teen-ager in the late 70s and it blew my mind; I read it again recently and it still blew my mind. Grass's work well-deserved the Nobel. He should not be diminished this way.
7
I personally feel he is overrated. To my mind a better postwar German writer was Heinrich Boll. When the news came out that he had been in the Waffen SS, I can't say I was surprised. Grass's animus towards Israel has always been irrational, you have to get that somewhere. Of course it makes Germans feel good when they can criticize Israel.
2
The greatest example yet of the elite looking the other way - as long as you have the right opinions and rub elbows with the right people. They'll overlook anything.
Senator Robert Byrd is the modern American example. Grand Knight of the Ku Klux Klan - but as long as he kept the money and votes flowing- no one held it against him.
Shamelessness is a bottomless abyss.
Senator Robert Byrd is the modern American example. Grand Knight of the Ku Klux Klan - but as long as he kept the money and votes flowing- no one held it against him.
Shamelessness is a bottomless abyss.
8
Calling Guenter Grass elite, or comparing him to Robert Byrd, shows that you have no idea about him. He was the anti-elite, despised and frightened by politicians and business leaders alike for exposing their treatment of the "little people". He was for the 99% 50 years before it became an issue in the US. He did not enrich himself or tried to do it.
And to understand his comments about the Israeli government you also should understand the deep seated guilt complex of the German people, and that it sometimes went beyond what was reasonable in accepting the Israeli government's follies.
And to understand his comments about the Israeli government you also should understand the deep seated guilt complex of the German people, and that it sometimes went beyond what was reasonable in accepting the Israeli government's follies.
6
Like most stories about the long arc of a human life--and a most talented human being at that--his is a complicated legacy. Not that his brilliance needs to be diminished, nor his unfortunate role in World War II swept under the carpet, he leaves us with a legacy that is an amalgam of all he accomplished during his time on earth. Much of it for the greater good. RIP.
20
My first response to this news was to want to talk with my in-laws, Jews who escaped Germany in the nick of time. Intellectuals, they both had enormous respect for Günter Grass, and while they were generally more comfortable in English, they preferred to read him in the original German.
Unfortunately they passed away two years ago and this is another discussion we don't get to have.
bikiniwaxchronicles.com
Unfortunately they passed away two years ago and this is another discussion we don't get to have.
bikiniwaxchronicles.com
15
A boy of 16 is more an enthusiastic, uncritical follower and not the thinking person some adults become.
And Mr. Grass seemed honest talking about himself and his motivations as a youth.
One can imagine he later felt shame and remorse and guilt which motivated him to be even more zealous than he would have otherwise.
At least he outgrew that kind of unexamined, enthusiastic patriotism which is more than can be said for many.
And Mr. Grass seemed honest talking about himself and his motivations as a youth.
One can imagine he later felt shame and remorse and guilt which motivated him to be even more zealous than he would have otherwise.
At least he outgrew that kind of unexamined, enthusiastic patriotism which is more than can be said for many.
65
As a Jewish-American and the child of a Holocaust survivor, I normally consider revelations of someone's involvement in the Nazi war machine relevant and important, not something to be swept under the rug or ignored when assessing someone's legacy.
But rationally, I know that not all German soldiers were Nazis, and that soldiers conscripted late in the war probably had very little desire to perpetuate Hitler's regime or do anything other than survive, and perhaps prevent the destruction of their homeland. I also believe that it's possible for someone to recognize the mistakes of one's philosophy and renounce one's former actions, and become not merely a productive member of society, but a good and admirable person. I'm not naïve; I know that people will claim to have reformed in order to obtain forgiveness. Merely because I believe in accepting a sincere apology and granting mercy when it is genuinely deserved doesn't mean that I do so uncritically.
If ever there were a case for forgiveness, surely this is it. Günter Grass was seventeen when he was conscripted. He wasn't involved in any atrocities or war crimes. He served in a tank unit for two months before being captured and made a prisoner of war, and he was still seventeen when the war ended. If he had any culpability at all for this minimal service (which I doubt), it was expunged when he spoke out against his country's former leaders and their actions. Günter Grass redeemed himself through the life he lived.
But rationally, I know that not all German soldiers were Nazis, and that soldiers conscripted late in the war probably had very little desire to perpetuate Hitler's regime or do anything other than survive, and perhaps prevent the destruction of their homeland. I also believe that it's possible for someone to recognize the mistakes of one's philosophy and renounce one's former actions, and become not merely a productive member of society, but a good and admirable person. I'm not naïve; I know that people will claim to have reformed in order to obtain forgiveness. Merely because I believe in accepting a sincere apology and granting mercy when it is genuinely deserved doesn't mean that I do so uncritically.
If ever there were a case for forgiveness, surely this is it. Günter Grass was seventeen when he was conscripted. He wasn't involved in any atrocities or war crimes. He served in a tank unit for two months before being captured and made a prisoner of war, and he was still seventeen when the war ended. If he had any culpability at all for this minimal service (which I doubt), it was expunged when he spoke out against his country's former leaders and their actions. Günter Grass redeemed himself through the life he lived.
208
If only Americans would learn from him to be reflective and consider our own past misdeeds, we would be a much stronger country. I now understand how the Nazis were able to manipulate the people.
1
Mr. Grass was all of 18 years old when Nazi Germany surrendered. That he was horrified by the choice that he had made as a young teen is evident from his life's work. One of the things that makes Germany a great nation today was its ability to largely recognize and come to terms with its culpability for the holocaust (unlike other allied or occupied countries that have never owned up to their willing participation). Mr. Grass' writings played a powerful role in Germany's moral recovery, perhaps fueled artistically by misgivings concerning his own ability to be seduced by Nazi propaganda. He deserves praise, not condemnation for coming clean about his past in his later years, as well as recognition as a great author who grew far beyond the Tin Drum, penning such classics as The Flounder.
67
It is the foolishness of adolescence (usually, it should be remembered, the result of thoughtless conformity) that provides the mistakes we can later learn from. To require that we publicly lay bare the flaws of youth as the price of passage into moral responsibility and leadership would, thanks to our ghoulish guardians of public virtue, leave the field of politics a barren, unpopulated wasteland. Updike's beautiful body of writing, by its very aesthetic purity , exposes him as an effete affront to those of us acutely involved in the brutal consequences of politics. He did not earn the right to pass judgement on Grass's political life (an ironic backhanded 'political' slap, at that) and it would have been prudent for him to have held his tongue. Kinzer's piece, as well, in its lopsided emphasis on Grass's 'hypocrisy', dismembers the body of Grass in death just like one more American moralistic predator. Grass was flawed, it is true, but he was a courageous human being who took some risky stands that did not always benefit from perfect foresight. But at least he took stands. It's no shame that a right-wing Prime Minister of Israel attacked this outstanding critic of the holocaust for suggesting that Israel's nuclear program (which it hypocritically refuses to acknowledge) destabilizes the peace. If politics were stripped of hypocrisy it would likely be found to be devoid of any morals at all. Let's try to limit our bile for those hypocrisies that pose the greatest danger.
34
Mr. Grass was a tireless defender of Fidel Castro’s government in Cuba
------------------------
So his love for dictators and dictatorships never did stop did it.
------------------------
So his love for dictators and dictatorships never did stop did it.
9
Perfectly said. Surely, it was Castro standing up to the United States that
attracted him the most. Grass in his way was too good for us all, he was better than us. Probably something from his youth.
attracted him the most. Grass in his way was too good for us all, he was better than us. Probably something from his youth.
Like the US was a tireless defender of Augusto Pinochet or Mohammad Reza Pahlavi.
10
Humans are complex. What Mr. Grass did or thought as a youth are interesting only as markers for the progression of his thought. And as for his poem, which I have not read, which criticized Israel and the thought that it would be justified "in attacking Iran over a perceived nuclear threat", I agree with this, and find the response only confirmatory that among certain groups Israel is immune from criticism.
36
It's just a wee bit silly to have had all that shock over a German teenager, who'd been in the Nazi era's equivalent of the Boy Scouts since the age of ten, then enthusiastically taking the next logical step...at the age of what? Seventeen?
It's true that by hiding that for so long, he diminished himself into a very talented but hypocritical scold. Many other people of less-recognized intellect, perhaps, had to struggle in despised anguish for having had the same sort of youth.
The only thing distinguishing German WWII atrocities from any others was the peculiarly German talent for efficiency, enabling them to do on a massive scale what other countries do in miniature and more messily.
Many authors have only one great book in them, that seems almost miraculously birthed. Neither before nor after can they achieve anything comparable. Unfortunately they rarely recognize that, themselves, and become enraptured by their own legend.
It's true that by hiding that for so long, he diminished himself into a very talented but hypocritical scold. Many other people of less-recognized intellect, perhaps, had to struggle in despised anguish for having had the same sort of youth.
The only thing distinguishing German WWII atrocities from any others was the peculiarly German talent for efficiency, enabling them to do on a massive scale what other countries do in miniature and more messily.
Many authors have only one great book in them, that seems almost miraculously birthed. Neither before nor after can they achieve anything comparable. Unfortunately they rarely recognize that, themselves, and become enraptured by their own legend.
7
Another cowardly attempt to discredit a man who, *as a 16-yeart-old teenager*, was conscripted into a nefarious organization. Reminds me of the equally cowardly way that Patty Hearst was persecuted for her role in surviving as a captive of the equally nefarious Symbionese Liberation Army.
The 'Stockholm Syndrome' has been amply explained by now as potentially affecting almost any victim of similar circumstances, and especially young ones. The hyenas yapping at the heels of underage victims of such misfortune ought to be wholly ashamed of themselves.
The 'Stockholm Syndrome' has been amply explained by now as potentially affecting almost any victim of similar circumstances, and especially young ones. The hyenas yapping at the heels of underage victims of such misfortune ought to be wholly ashamed of themselves.
37
Nobody was "conscripted" into the SS. You were conscripted then worked your way to the elite.
5
Oh yeah, "worked his way" - as a 16-yr - old. The war was over 1 year later ....
5
The Stockholm Syndrome is not for soldiers who love SS garbage. Controversial to this day, it's for kidnapped people facing death. Be fair. Grass was not 12. He was 17-18. He should have been a mensch. He asked to be among killers of the worst sort. He was not kidnapped. And then he lied his whole life until cornered by a researcher. That life was a fraud, that man one. He wrote a good book. He lived a life of lies.
So, his SS involvement aside -- and I think John Irving had it right, “Your courage, both as a writer and as a citizen of your country, is exemplary — a courage heightened, not lessened, by your most recent revelation.” -- would seem to me Mr. Grass was on the right side of everything for the last several decades. But like Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh and Richard Wagner and so many others before him, it surely won't be enough. For now and forever, not Gunther Grass Nobel Prize winner, simply Gunther Grass, garden-variety anti-semite. The NY Times has seen to that.
The sanctimoniousness, cluelessness, gross hypocrisy of Americans: been to a sporting even recently? How many times did you stand up and salute the flag? Member of the military drop the first puck? How many "Wounded Warriors" (i.e., American men and women missing body parts from fighting wars they never should have been sent to fight) have you stood up and cheered? How could it happen in Germany, you ask? WAKE UP!! You can't support the troops without supporting their mission. Germany tried that too.
Memo to Americans: when you go to a sporting event, and the American flag is bigger than the playing surface -- it's a good bet your government has been up to no good. But keep cheering.
The sanctimoniousness, cluelessness, gross hypocrisy of Americans: been to a sporting even recently? How many times did you stand up and salute the flag? Member of the military drop the first puck? How many "Wounded Warriors" (i.e., American men and women missing body parts from fighting wars they never should have been sent to fight) have you stood up and cheered? How could it happen in Germany, you ask? WAKE UP!! You can't support the troops without supporting their mission. Germany tried that too.
Memo to Americans: when you go to a sporting event, and the American flag is bigger than the playing surface -- it's a good bet your government has been up to no good. But keep cheering.
214
I love Guenther Grass's writing, and I would never condemn him for a mistake in judgement. He was the only one who truly knew what he believed deep down.
However(!) you need to understand the difference between the SS and the Nazis and how they terrorized a nation and the world, and American foreign policy, and its "support" via saluting the flag or watching a sporting event. American foreign policy, while heinous at times, is well within the bounds of the normal, given the reality of the world. The Nazis were an altogether different breed, not normal at all, psychopaths, really.
Try reading this for starters: http://eriklarsonbooks.com/the-books/in-the-garden-of-beasts/
However(!) you need to understand the difference between the SS and the Nazis and how they terrorized a nation and the world, and American foreign policy, and its "support" via saluting the flag or watching a sporting event. American foreign policy, while heinous at times, is well within the bounds of the normal, given the reality of the world. The Nazis were an altogether different breed, not normal at all, psychopaths, really.
Try reading this for starters: http://eriklarsonbooks.com/the-books/in-the-garden-of-beasts/
2
So you would argue that the US military is no better than the nazis, but how does that change the fact that Mr. Grass specifically joined the genocide-leading unit by choice.
1
If my math is correct, Grass would have been conscripted when he was 16 years old. I do not see the hypocrisy in a boy who was forced into a very wicked situation later writing about the horrors of war, and pleading for Germans to acknowledge their responsibility.
I would remind all Americans that horrible and illegal acts resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands (if not millions) have been committed much more recently by our democratically elected governments. These were no dictators who seized and consolidated power as Hitler did - these were elected officials acting on our behalf.
I would remind all Americans that horrible and illegal acts resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands (if not millions) have been committed much more recently by our democratically elected governments. These were no dictators who seized and consolidated power as Hitler did - these were elected officials acting on our behalf.
326
The hypocrisy charges leveled against Grass after the revelation of his membership in the Waffen-SS were and are fully justified. The reason for this, however, is NOT the fact that Grass was a member--countless other Germans had been in the same position, many of them youngsters like him recruited with vigorous propaganda efforts in the last phase of the war. Neither is it the fact that he had long hidden this detail--so many others concealed this as well, and from all we know (i.e. all he told us--but there is little reason to doubt that) he did not commit any condemnable acts while a member of the Waffen-SS.
What warrants a resounding charge of hypocrisy against him is the posture that, many decades later, he assumed when judging and summarily condemning others while concealing his own moral failings known only to himself. The 1985 Bitburg incident--and many Germans still remember his stance back then--is only the starkest example. To include it in this article, which rightly deals with Grass's life and his role in Germany society as much as with his writings, is essential. And Rolf Hochhuth's comments, also in the text, are to the point.
What warrants a resounding charge of hypocrisy against him is the posture that, many decades later, he assumed when judging and summarily condemning others while concealing his own moral failings known only to himself. The 1985 Bitburg incident--and many Germans still remember his stance back then--is only the starkest example. To include it in this article, which rightly deals with Grass's life and his role in Germany society as much as with his writings, is essential. And Rolf Hochhuth's comments, also in the text, are to the point.
4
Lee, you are Grassing American history.
I guess you miss the importance of the concentration and murder camps, the slave laborers in 42,500 work places and barracks, the anesthesia-free medical experimentation, the ghettos and starvation, the gassing of millions, and several other unique horrors of Grass's heroes -- the SS whose cruel words, songs, poems, cartoons, and public prancings he loved at 18. At 18, my uncles went to fight Nazis in Europe and the Japanese. They came back wounded in several ways. He came back and covered up his venality. Nothing the US did after WWII is even close to the Final Solution. War is not genocide. death is not anesthesia, fiction is not reality. Entertainment is not wisdom. Grass was a fraud.
I guess you miss the importance of the concentration and murder camps, the slave laborers in 42,500 work places and barracks, the anesthesia-free medical experimentation, the ghettos and starvation, the gassing of millions, and several other unique horrors of Grass's heroes -- the SS whose cruel words, songs, poems, cartoons, and public prancings he loved at 18. At 18, my uncles went to fight Nazis in Europe and the Japanese. They came back wounded in several ways. He came back and covered up his venality. Nothing the US did after WWII is even close to the Final Solution. War is not genocide. death is not anesthesia, fiction is not reality. Entertainment is not wisdom. Grass was a fraud.
1
Sorry to read in other comments that Grass is being remembered for his S/S affiliation as a teenager, though that is certainly relevant. But men should be remembered as a whole, not a fraction of what they were. I read "The
Tin Drum," over 50 years ago as a teenage U.S. Soldier in Mannheim on the recommendation of the base's German teacher. Even in my inexperienced youth, I realized I was reading great writer.
Tin Drum," over 50 years ago as a teenage U.S. Soldier in Mannheim on the recommendation of the base's German teacher. Even in my inexperienced youth, I realized I was reading great writer.
186
The Waffen SS made sure that for many, a "fraction" of their natural life is all they would get. So this guy wrote a great book. Why is that elevated over being a good person? What about all the Canadians, Germans and French murdered by the Waffen SS? I'll bet a few of those lost souls had some good books in them waiting to be written, as well. I'd trade that chance for the Tin Drum, any day.
7
He was a bad person for being drafted into the Waffen SS army when he was 17 to defend the homeland against foreign invasion? Get off of it! How contrived can you be? I'm sure if he had written a book praising Frederick Hayeck and Ronald Reagan or had become a conservative politician like some of them did, you would jumping to his defense. You're all for fighting communism, but not when a 17 year old kid is doing it to save his neighbors from being killed and raped by marauding Soviet troops during the rape of East Prussia. Maybe you should actually read the Tin Drum sometime.
2
I read "Tin Drum" as a 17 year old ,in a class which also introduced me to Balzac and Camus. The experience of "European Literature" (the course name) led me to a 45 year old voyage through non-English literature.
The enjoyment of these years led to non-fiction ,and the history of the novels time-span, as well as the authors background. Reading "The Tin Drum" lead me to non-linear narratives and "magic realism".
The real life biography of a writer is of interest to me if it explains their writings.
Beyond that, I can only say " Judge the fruit,not the tree." , when exploring non-English literature.Come to think of it-Somerset Maugham would be banned also..for his honesty,even if there are some "attitudes and terminology " that the ultra-PC crowd use as their literary litmus paper.
The enjoyment of these years led to non-fiction ,and the history of the novels time-span, as well as the authors background. Reading "The Tin Drum" lead me to non-linear narratives and "magic realism".
The real life biography of a writer is of interest to me if it explains their writings.
Beyond that, I can only say " Judge the fruit,not the tree." , when exploring non-English literature.Come to think of it-Somerset Maugham would be banned also..for his honesty,even if there are some "attitudes and terminology " that the ultra-PC crowd use as their literary litmus paper.
3
No one was ever conscripted into the SS. The Wehrmacht, yes. But like our elite Rangers and airborne units, the Waffen SS was volunteer only, and many who applied were rejected as unfit. While the average German draftee might claim he wasn't necessarily a big fan of the Nazi party, being a big fan of the Nazi party and its agenda was a primary qualification to become a member of the SS and its battlefield comnent, the Waffen SS.
It was the Waffen SS who murdered Russian soldiers routinely, and who murdered captured American soldiers during the Battle of the Bulge. In response, Americans adopted a "no quarter" policy specifically towards Waffen SS units, and returned the favor whenever possible. So let's not kid ourselves. If SS-denier Grass had died the dishonorable death he so richly deserved in WW2, would anyone have really missed him?
It was the Waffen SS who murdered Russian soldiers routinely, and who murdered captured American soldiers during the Battle of the Bulge. In response, Americans adopted a "no quarter" policy specifically towards Waffen SS units, and returned the favor whenever possible. So let's not kid ourselves. If SS-denier Grass had died the dishonorable death he so richly deserved in WW2, would anyone have really missed him?
17
"battlefield component," that was supposed to say.
1
Yes -- many, millions, would have missed him. All of those of us, all over the world, who appreciate, and learn from, great works of literature, to start with.
27
Like most German units by 1944, the Waffen SS was being filled out by old men and children. He volunteered, so I would have as well just like I volunteered to join the Marines. They weren't all war criminals any more than the US soldiers who didn't take prisoners.
To blame a 16 year old for joining an elite unit to fight for his country is absurd at best. To blame a 16 year old for the crimes committed by units similar to the one he joined goes beyond that to deliberate, willful and misguided hatefulness.
To blame a 16 year old for joining an elite unit to fight for his country is absurd at best. To blame a 16 year old for the crimes committed by units similar to the one he joined goes beyond that to deliberate, willful and misguided hatefulness.
7
Incredibly skewed ordering of the facts of Grass's life, clearly designed to incite outrage and sensationalism, not to look more deeply into what his life and work achieved. Kinzer mentions that he was 'conscripted' (i.e., drafted) at least twice in earlier paragraphs, but ends with the question: 'Why was he attracted to the S.S. as a teenager?' His 'Nazi past' was nonexistent--it was virtually thrust down his throat every waking moment due to the context in which he was born, and not the wholly voluntary commitment this damaging piece strives to portray.
Nothing is so contemptible as posthumous slander, and this writer is attempting to paint over every aspect of Grass's life with this crude and disingenuous brush. Shameful on every count.
Nothing is so contemptible as posthumous slander, and this writer is attempting to paint over every aspect of Grass's life with this crude and disingenuous brush. Shameful on every count.
132
There is no justification in making the Waffen SS sound less murderous than the regular SS. It was the Waffen SS who murdered all Canadians captured on Juno Beach. It was the Waffen SS who destroyed Ouradour sur Glane. Anyone who wore the double lightning bolts on his collar tabs was SS, no differentiation.
My novel, "Comrades, Avenge Us" focuses on the murderers of Juno Beach.
My novel, "Comrades, Avenge Us" focuses on the murderers of Juno Beach.
8
A brilliant writer who will be greeted by a vigorous tin drum roll upon reaching the pearly gates. Then the clairaudient infant, Oskar, will wholeheartedly welcome him home while simultaneously forgiving him of the actions of his vain youth and absolve him of all of his moral shame.
22
He was surprised, even offended by the reproach directed at him after admitting being in the Waffen SS. If his participation was truly so benign, "I never fired a shot", then why keep it a secret for decades? His tirades against the USA were hollow hypocrisy.
10
R.I.P., Guenter Grass. I just wish I knew the language well enough to have read the 'Danzig Trilogy' books in the original German. As for the controversy, it was not necessarily a crime in post-war West Germany to have been a member of the Waffen-SS; I knew several of these veterans during my days as a G.I. there in the 80's, and they were very open about their service. It's too bad he wasn't open about his service from the beginning. I think the knowledge that he had existed in the belly of the beast would have actually given more weight to his social criticisms.
7
I'm willing to forgive the mistake of a 17 year-old, but what I've always wondered was whether joining the SS was voluntary or mandatory.
3
In many cases, people were conscripted. In Grass' case, he admitted he joined - albeit at age 16-17.
4
Although the article is not inaccurate, it focuses too much in his life an not in his work. You could say anything about the person, but what really remains is his literature. In a few years, when his personal traits are forgotten, what will remain will be "The Tin Drum", "Dog Years" or "The Flounder", among others. His work will really will be missed.
41
his work, like that of any great artist, is immortal. whether that means centuries or millennia, only the future will tell. even if one hasn't heard of him, his name will turn up in a google search for say "20th century German literature." Similarly winning the Nobel ensures that curious readers will seek out his book.
He'll be missed by his friends and family. But his work will live on long after we've all given up the ghost.
He'll be missed by his friends and family. But his work will live on long after we've all given up the ghost.
2
A great writer who had the misfortune to live into an era in which nothing is ever over and every hypocrite can set himself up as a judge.
Grass more than compensated for his year in the SS (not participating in atrocities) through his writing and politics. Those who set upon him now will not be able to stand close examination by their own descendants - and can offer smug, cheap morality from their comfort, patting themselves on the back and sticking out their chests for a medal.
The fact is, few of us have ever had our righteousness really tried. We post comments in the NYT, maybe write a letter to the papers or stick a bumper sticker on the car, and congratulate ourselves. And we all like to think we'd have hidden Anne Frank or joined the resistance. But the truth is, put to the test, the vast majority of Americans would be 'good Germans' (and indeed, historically have been). We're pack animals bleating 'four legs good, two legs baaaad.' And that's true of those who are not young as Grass was.
His early books are great and will outlive the facile condemnations.
Grass more than compensated for his year in the SS (not participating in atrocities) through his writing and politics. Those who set upon him now will not be able to stand close examination by their own descendants - and can offer smug, cheap morality from their comfort, patting themselves on the back and sticking out their chests for a medal.
The fact is, few of us have ever had our righteousness really tried. We post comments in the NYT, maybe write a letter to the papers or stick a bumper sticker on the car, and congratulate ourselves. And we all like to think we'd have hidden Anne Frank or joined the resistance. But the truth is, put to the test, the vast majority of Americans would be 'good Germans' (and indeed, historically have been). We're pack animals bleating 'four legs good, two legs baaaad.' And that's true of those who are not young as Grass was.
His early books are great and will outlive the facile condemnations.
158
Please do read again the paragraph about the very significant Bitburg episode which, in no small part due to Grass, made huge waves all across Germany at the time. Grass already knew back then that HE could have lain in one of those graves.
The point is not that he had to "compensate" for much, if anything, having enlisted in the Waffen-SS (which was by then a regular mass army, "elite" mostly in terms of propaganda) as a teenager in the last months of the war. The point is that he elevated himself above others, haughtily scandalizing their behavior (this refers to Kohl, one of the first major German post-War politicians who had been to young to be a soldier, but who had especially emphasized that he considered his "late birth" mere luck, not a moral accomplishment), and denying them their basic human dignity (this refers to the young, buried soldiers, of whom Grass knew that he had made the exact same choice as they).
The point is not that he had to "compensate" for much, if anything, having enlisted in the Waffen-SS (which was by then a regular mass army, "elite" mostly in terms of propaganda) as a teenager in the last months of the war. The point is that he elevated himself above others, haughtily scandalizing their behavior (this refers to Kohl, one of the first major German post-War politicians who had been to young to be a soldier, but who had especially emphasized that he considered his "late birth" mere luck, not a moral accomplishment), and denying them their basic human dignity (this refers to the young, buried soldiers, of whom Grass knew that he had made the exact same choice as they).
2
Message to the NY Times: The man won a Nobel Prize for literature and influenced writers like Rushdie and Marquez with his crazily creative storytelling. The Tin Drum is widely seen as one of the greatest novels of the 20th century, and it inspired an Oscar-winning movie. Yes, Grass's last few years were overshadowed by controversy about his past. But now that he's gone, can we please appreciate the man as an artist before we throw rocks?
111
Sadly, there is no positive resolution to the dilemma of the split off part of Grass. "The Tin Drum" is one of the most original, brilliant fantastical summaries of the German psyche at the time of the Weimar Republic's height of power. It had a profound impact on me.
When the truth about Grass's SS past was revealed, it felt like a stunning, incongruous kind of nutty revelation. Like he was "The Man in the Glass a Booth" in reverse.
Nothing can take away his brilliance, or our intense shock and disallusionment about what he did. No satisfying outcome is possible, least of all for Grass. And he knew it.
When the truth about Grass's SS past was revealed, it felt like a stunning, incongruous kind of nutty revelation. Like he was "The Man in the Glass a Booth" in reverse.
Nothing can take away his brilliance, or our intense shock and disallusionment about what he did. No satisfying outcome is possible, least of all for Grass. And he knew it.
53
Gunter Grass,
Mr. Grass should not be judged by what he has been ,but by what he became & stood for, & in my estimation he stood very high.
Mr. Grass should not be judged by what he has been ,but by what he became & stood for, & in my estimation he stood very high.
70
Well said!
Good riddance, he lost any respect from me when he revealed his duplicity. How can a man be a moral compass and a member of the SS at the same time? Well, that would suggest his moral compass isn't all that great - a concerning indictment of our times.
13
Judge his art, please!
He was a great writer and "The Tin Drum" is a masterpiece.
31
The fact that Mr. Grass was a member of the SS doesn't in any way tarnish his exceptional body of work and his influence in the world. At the end of one's life, each of us has to ask the question, "Is the world better off for me having been here?" And the unequivocal answer for Mr. Grass is a resounding "yes!".
149
Murdering Jews for an ideological agenda of racial purification is not even remotely counterbalanced by creating poetry out of the experience and collecting a Nobel prize as a result. It's important to recognize how anti-Semitic such a stance really is.
2
Well, actually, his secret awful past DOES tarnish his reputation somewhat. But, he was brilliant, and I think he made amends with his art. He contributed to humanity for many more years than he detracted from it, but he hid his past for a reason. The key thing is that he grew as a person, and contributed, far more than most of us do. These mortal lives we lead are terribly complicated, that's certain. He'll be missed.
Waffen-SS is not the general SS. He was never a member of the SS. Waffen SS were the elite military troops, not governed by the Wehrmacht. This was nothing special as the army at the end of the war turned more and more into Waffen SS governance. In the Waffen SS also many foreigners fought. Grass himself vigorously campaigned against the cemetery visit, this was viewed as hypocrisy. In fact there was nothing wrong in him beeing a 17 year old soldier in the waffen SS and the visit of Reagan.
Hardly a moral compass, more a reflection of his era.
17
So, join the S/S, then hide your participation after their atrocities so you're not discovered and punished, then write a book that mirrors the terror in your mind. All will be forgiven? How sad a perspective, a country, an obituary. All this while the new S/S is running around the Middle East chopping off heads.
21
The article states at one point that Grass was conscripted into the SS, but at the end observes that he was "attracted" to the SS, suggesting that he volunteered. A little clarity would help.
4
Blaming Grass for something he did when he was a child is manifestly unfair. He was a great novelist, and he dedicated his entire adult life and art to causes diametrically opposed to Nazism.
104
Grass did not "join" the SS - he was conscripted. Not much of a choice.
12