I agree with the commentary. But I don't learn anything new. I wish we had public intellectuals that had a platform like this paper who could speak to the issues in a more meaningful way.
14
It seems that many commentators (and Mr. Blow) seem to believe that only one of two truths can be true:
1. Walter Scott should not have been shot and the officer should be held fully accountable for his actions.
2. Running from the police is wrong - Walter Scott should not have run.
In fact, both are true. Clearly the first point is the more important...but the latter is ignored by too many, with disastrous results.
Black lives matter...no question. Absolutely.
But so does the rule of law and respect for authority.
1. Walter Scott should not have been shot and the officer should be held fully accountable for his actions.
2. Running from the police is wrong - Walter Scott should not have run.
In fact, both are true. Clearly the first point is the more important...but the latter is ignored by too many, with disastrous results.
Black lives matter...no question. Absolutely.
But so does the rule of law and respect for authority.
39
A few days ago when I previously commented on this unfortunate event I did not know of the Supreme Court ruling that deems it excessive force to shoot a fleeing suspect in the back if he is not a danger to himself or anyone else. So clearly this particular cop was wrong in using deadly force.
Mr. Blow writes an eloquent column. But minds do wander, ask and associate regardless. I understand his passion but he cannot stop people from thinking and expressing their thoughts. The fact remains that the present victim engaged in a scuffle with the cop, and forcibly took his taser
before he ran. This does not justify his being shot, or blame the victim. It is a factor in the whole picture and I don't see the point of omitting it. The more we know the more wisely we can act. I still believe it is not a good idea to physically engage and or run from an armed individual who may be the police, a criminal or both. This does not immediately make me a racist.
As to the AP poll-- has Mr. Blow edited it? Why is the "imagined situation" not specified, addressed or elaborated? If it involves someone threatening my safety or life then yes, a police officer at the scene should if necessary use force to protect me. That doesn't classify me as racist either and surely if the the poll's question had been thus phrased most blacks and Hispanics would have agreed. FYI, Mr Blow, I regularly read your column and like your writing. I think this one could use a little more room.
Mr. Blow writes an eloquent column. But minds do wander, ask and associate regardless. I understand his passion but he cannot stop people from thinking and expressing their thoughts. The fact remains that the present victim engaged in a scuffle with the cop, and forcibly took his taser
before he ran. This does not justify his being shot, or blame the victim. It is a factor in the whole picture and I don't see the point of omitting it. The more we know the more wisely we can act. I still believe it is not a good idea to physically engage and or run from an armed individual who may be the police, a criminal or both. This does not immediately make me a racist.
As to the AP poll-- has Mr. Blow edited it? Why is the "imagined situation" not specified, addressed or elaborated? If it involves someone threatening my safety or life then yes, a police officer at the scene should if necessary use force to protect me. That doesn't classify me as racist either and surely if the the poll's question had been thus phrased most blacks and Hispanics would have agreed. FYI, Mr Blow, I regularly read your column and like your writing. I think this one could use a little more room.
16
There is only one solution. Mandatory cameras on all police, all the time. This will protect both the public and the police. The public will be protected from bad cops and the good cops will be protected from unfair accusations and witch-hunting journalists. The cameras will encourage better behavior on the part of officers and the general public.
36
Yes, being a police officer is no picnic. It legitimately makes one ask why would anyone want to become a police officer. I hope that most of the answers to that question are idealistic. And I hope we know when they are not and weed out those who should never be given the authority and arms that go with being an officer.
If you think this is paranoid please think back to the south in the sixties. Police officers too often shared the prejudices of much of the white community. The injustices that were perpetrated against black protestors and white sympathizers by duly appointed officers of the law (and prosecutors, judges) reflected the culture of the times and the locale. Why would you expect that not to be true today?
Let's hope these officers were not differentiating because of race despite living in communities that do. Let's hope they are kind, sensitive human beings not caught up in guns and bad guys despite a constant diet of media violence and shootings. As for me, police officers make me so nervous I'll go out of my way to avoid them. And that makes it hard to respect an entire class of working people entrusted with keeping the peace and safeguarding folks ...so they won't get shot in the back for running away.
If you think this is paranoid please think back to the south in the sixties. Police officers too often shared the prejudices of much of the white community. The injustices that were perpetrated against black protestors and white sympathizers by duly appointed officers of the law (and prosecutors, judges) reflected the culture of the times and the locale. Why would you expect that not to be true today?
Let's hope these officers were not differentiating because of race despite living in communities that do. Let's hope they are kind, sensitive human beings not caught up in guns and bad guys despite a constant diet of media violence and shootings. As for me, police officers make me so nervous I'll go out of my way to avoid them. And that makes it hard to respect an entire class of working people entrusted with keeping the peace and safeguarding folks ...so they won't get shot in the back for running away.
22
Mr. Scott should not have run, but he shouldn't have been killed for running. In all these cases there is a commonality: the suspect resisted arrest. Do what the officer tells you and things will get sorted out. It is hard to outrun the police. The law of Unintended Negative Consequences was strongly in play here.
35
If death was the punishment for disobenience, who among us would have ever reached adulthood?
31
"Death is not the appropriate punishment for disobedience."
I am inclined to agree with respect to this case but I don't know if there are absolutes. Arguably, it depends on social conditions. In a society in which there is considerable disorder and little chance of apprehending a dangerous suspect later, our intuitions might be different.
I am inclined to agree with respect to this case but I don't know if there are absolutes. Arguably, it depends on social conditions. In a society in which there is considerable disorder and little chance of apprehending a dangerous suspect later, our intuitions might be different.
6
Our free press and media are the problem.
They are in the dirty business of creating the divisive issues, polarizing a society and inflaming irrational behavior.
They like the racial tensions because nothing like that increases the ratings, sells the ads and creates the fat profits.
Our media will create the problems even if there weren’t any in order to keep 24-hour news cycle well-fed and strong.
A dozen African Americans killed by the cops over several years looks like a problem until you compare those deaths to the other statistics.
How many millions traffic stops resulted in those dozen tragic incidents? How many African Americans were killed by the domestic violence? How many African Americans were killed in gang-related violence? How many African Americans were killed in drug-trafficking disputes? How many African Americans were killed as result of drunk driving? How many African Americans were killed as a result of drug overdose? How many African American cops were killed on duty during the same period? How many African Americans were killed in the senseless foreign wars waged across the globe? How many African Americans have died because they lacked a proper health care and preventive care?
If those tragic incidents took a hundred times more African American lives than the cop-related wrongful deaths, why don’t we focus our social energy on the worst issues that deserve the most attention and urgency?
How many African Americans have died in the Iraq War?
They are in the dirty business of creating the divisive issues, polarizing a society and inflaming irrational behavior.
They like the racial tensions because nothing like that increases the ratings, sells the ads and creates the fat profits.
Our media will create the problems even if there weren’t any in order to keep 24-hour news cycle well-fed and strong.
A dozen African Americans killed by the cops over several years looks like a problem until you compare those deaths to the other statistics.
How many millions traffic stops resulted in those dozen tragic incidents? How many African Americans were killed by the domestic violence? How many African Americans were killed in gang-related violence? How many African Americans were killed in drug-trafficking disputes? How many African Americans were killed as result of drunk driving? How many African Americans were killed as a result of drug overdose? How many African American cops were killed on duty during the same period? How many African Americans were killed in the senseless foreign wars waged across the globe? How many African Americans have died because they lacked a proper health care and preventive care?
If those tragic incidents took a hundred times more African American lives than the cop-related wrongful deaths, why don’t we focus our social energy on the worst issues that deserve the most attention and urgency?
How many African Americans have died in the Iraq War?
15
Mr. Scott's murder made me sick. Nothing short of a person running away waving a firearm that would justify such a killing. But thinking that if Mr. Scott hadn't run that he might not have been shot is absolutely different than thinking that Mr. Scott deserved to be shot because he ran.
I object to being told how I should think. It's not wrong to talk about the "what ifs". It's not hate speech or hateful speech or blaming the victim to weigh each of the circumstances contributing to the crime this officer appears to have committed. What it is is our human nature trying to understand something that defies understanding. In my case, I'm trying to understand what Mr. Scott, or me or anyone could have done to avoid being Tased or shot in this situation. This, Mr. Blow, is how the human mind processes things. I don't know anyone who thinks that for not paying child support or having papers for his car that Mr. Scott should have been shot. We're crazy with the Taser, too. A man was killed in Albany -- an unarmed black, mentally ill, Coast Guard veteran and college graduate -- after he was Tased ten days ago.
But we have to let people talk and listen, so that they learn, and so that their own indignation and sense of right and wrong is set alight. The ones who really think there is justification for this killing will never think otherwise.
I object to being told how I should think. It's not wrong to talk about the "what ifs". It's not hate speech or hateful speech or blaming the victim to weigh each of the circumstances contributing to the crime this officer appears to have committed. What it is is our human nature trying to understand something that defies understanding. In my case, I'm trying to understand what Mr. Scott, or me or anyone could have done to avoid being Tased or shot in this situation. This, Mr. Blow, is how the human mind processes things. I don't know anyone who thinks that for not paying child support or having papers for his car that Mr. Scott should have been shot. We're crazy with the Taser, too. A man was killed in Albany -- an unarmed black, mentally ill, Coast Guard veteran and college graduate -- after he was Tased ten days ago.
But we have to let people talk and listen, so that they learn, and so that their own indignation and sense of right and wrong is set alight. The ones who really think there is justification for this killing will never think otherwise.
20
Years ago, a NYPD friend of mine suggested that I help him and his friends to “liberate,” as was said at the time, “some lumber from a construction project in Manhattan,” openly and in front of assembled dinner guests, “to build a jungle gym for the kids in the back yard.” My greatest fear at the time was getting caught for theft. “Don’t worry about that, we owe something to the guys at the precinct station … they’ll take care of it.” I decided to go back to Manhattan with my wife instead and wished my friend luck. This guy was very charming, but I haven’t trusted the police since. I am white.
26
As our national political discourse has descended in the past decade or so from honest disagreement to mutual contempt, our discussion about crime and racism has also suffered. As suggested, the call for more and better data is important so that examination of the issues is improved. More important, imo, is the return to a conversation which does not presume either bias or lack thereof. I did not hear the pundits asking these questions but I am familiar with the tones which indicate victim-blaming. And I remember the television journalists whose tone was consistently respectful of human life. I am saddened that these questions, ASKED WITHOUT THE CONTEMPT, might lead us all to better understanding of what happened and why. And more peace among us.
5
I agree completely with Mr. Blow that looking at that video there should not be any talk about justification for the shooting of Mr. Scott or looking for a back door for justification, none can possibly exist in the video we all saw. The only relevance to the video of the actual stop and Mr. Scott running will be the exact crime the officer is ultimately convicted of. It will go toward's the officer's "State of Mind" and may bring the charge from First Degree Murder (Death Penalty Eligible) down to a lesser charge.
4
It's clear from the pundits and the comments that perception of the video is colored by ones prejudice and bias. It's like watching a Yankees and Red Sox game and having a close call at home. One side clearly sees the player as safe and the other as out by a mile. One side sees a guilty black man resisting arrest, one sees an unarmed black man brutily shot several times in the back and callously handcuffed while suffering his last breath. One side sees a teenager walking home with skittles standing his ground, another sees a thug, menacing the neighbourhood. We clearly have a long way to go to rid ourselves of racism.
33
The fact that Scott is black does not make this a racially motivated killing. The killing wouldn't have made it past local news if he wasn't black, yet it would have been equally unjust. Nobody's even heard a statement from the officer and yet the assumption is made that his skin color was the major factor in his death. Perhaps the officer committed murder for another reason besides bigotry. It does happen, but doesn't feed the Sharpton media monster.
16
There is no excuse for the murder of Walter Scott. We all want these murders to stop. Therefore, we are all searching for solutions that will stop violence. Wide-angle body cams and 360-degree cruiser cams the police cannot shut off or manipulate are a good idea, but that alone is not enough. Examination and modification of police procedure and retraining of officers is a good idea, but that is not enough. The only thing we can rely upon that doesn't require a big budget or some outside institution to get its act together is community education: know your rights, what you are obliged to do, what questions to ask if you encounter a police officer. Fight to change the system, yes! But if today you find yourself rightly or wrongly part of a police inquiry or investigation, knowing your rights and what you should and should not do could save you from a rogue officer.
7
The truth is that if Walter Scott didn't run he would be alive.
The question is what would you advise your child to do if stopped by the police officer? To run and take a chance of being shot or get a ticket? Would you really advise your children to risk a life for nothing?
If not, why are you treating Walter Scot differently than your own children?
If all those police officers got death penalty that would not revive the dead youth.
The point should be to prevent the deaths. The best prevention is to avoid confrontation.
The question is what would you advise your child to do if stopped by the police officer? To run and take a chance of being shot or get a ticket? Would you really advise your children to risk a life for nothing?
If not, why are you treating Walter Scot differently than your own children?
If all those police officers got death penalty that would not revive the dead youth.
The point should be to prevent the deaths. The best prevention is to avoid confrontation.
20
James B.Comey said "we simply must improve the way we collect and analyze data to see the true nature of what's happening in our communities." No, we don't! There is only one truth in all of this stuff about racism. Cops are not doing their job when anyone ends up dead. Their job is to protect citizens from harm. When was issuing a ticket for a brake light being out considered "protecting citizens from harm?" Or arresting a man for selling loosies? Were any of these "perpetrators" so dangerous that any cop in his right mind would conclude that it was warranted to pull out his gun, much less shoot! Come on, Mr. Blow. There simply is no excuse for this kind of reckless, senseless, irrational conduct by cops. There are thousands of cops who would NEVER do what this cop did but instead would run after Scott, or catch up to him in his car, or call backup. We've all seen movies where that is exactly what happens. Maybe he'll get away - but the cop knew who he was, where he lived and had his license! What is needed are more stringent hiring practices, on going psychological and emotional measurements to stay on the force, and to be armed. If police departments would step up to the plate and institute these policies immediately, some will be fired or given desk jobs. But as long as we continue to talk about "race" no police department will step up to simply re-training and re-hiring the cops we need to protect the citizens of America. All citizens.
21
"For me, there is only one issue in the Walter Scott case: he is dead, and that cannot be undone."
Then you are a one dimensional and simplistic thinker. But the reality is that we all know you are not. But on this issue, despite most liberals insisting we take a complex, subtle and nuanced view of any issues, all of a sudden we are supposed to think in total black and white. No consideration of the victims actions, the only thing that matters is of course.....the thing that validates the liberal point of view. In this case that means no subtlety, no complexity, just police are bad and racist. Full stop on thinking after that.
The reality is quite different. Unlike Martin Luther King, unlike Rosa Parks, unlike many examples from that era, we are not talking about innocent people minding their own business while doing something frowned upon in society. What we are talking about today are people being stopped while doing explicitly illegal actions, fully justified in being stopped, and then a situation escalating.
The actions of Walter Scott were the initiating factor in the conflict resulting in his death. His death was wrong, the policeman was wrong. But it's willfully ignorant to pretend Scott did start the process. He willfully failed to honor his support commitments, resulting in a warrant. He willfully ran from the police. This is not an innocent man who got targeted. It was a guilty man who was unfortunately killed by a reckless policeman.
Then you are a one dimensional and simplistic thinker. But the reality is that we all know you are not. But on this issue, despite most liberals insisting we take a complex, subtle and nuanced view of any issues, all of a sudden we are supposed to think in total black and white. No consideration of the victims actions, the only thing that matters is of course.....the thing that validates the liberal point of view. In this case that means no subtlety, no complexity, just police are bad and racist. Full stop on thinking after that.
The reality is quite different. Unlike Martin Luther King, unlike Rosa Parks, unlike many examples from that era, we are not talking about innocent people minding their own business while doing something frowned upon in society. What we are talking about today are people being stopped while doing explicitly illegal actions, fully justified in being stopped, and then a situation escalating.
The actions of Walter Scott were the initiating factor in the conflict resulting in his death. His death was wrong, the policeman was wrong. But it's willfully ignorant to pretend Scott did start the process. He willfully failed to honor his support commitments, resulting in a warrant. He willfully ran from the police. This is not an innocent man who got targeted. It was a guilty man who was unfortunately killed by a reckless policeman.
26
“if only he hadn’t run...” is not a way of saying that it was anything less than murder. Its more about using common sense. Because the fact is that running from the police can only end up in a bad way for the person that ran. When a person runs from the police the police don't just allow him to run away. Rather this sets off ever higher levels of that person being hunted, from being chased and tackled, to being the subject of a manhunt.
So while much is being made of the fact that police are racist towards blacks, this is in regard to the public at large, that here in the US we must not accept such attitudes from the police.
However in regard to the individual black man, the lesson of all of these killings shouldn't be to simply to conclude that there are police out there that would kill me, and so I am in danger simply because of who I am.
There is also a practical lesson to be learned. And that is that assaulting the police, trying to grab something from them or simply trying to run from them can be dangerous. That even though the police should be trained to deal with all sorts of bad behavior, such actions can nevertheless seriously place ones safety and even life in danger. And therefore doing so is a bad idea and should not be done.
And this is not just something that black men should understand. Disobeying the police, especially by running, let alone assaulting them, is understood by everyone in this country, both white and black, to be a stupid thing to do.
So while much is being made of the fact that police are racist towards blacks, this is in regard to the public at large, that here in the US we must not accept such attitudes from the police.
However in regard to the individual black man, the lesson of all of these killings shouldn't be to simply to conclude that there are police out there that would kill me, and so I am in danger simply because of who I am.
There is also a practical lesson to be learned. And that is that assaulting the police, trying to grab something from them or simply trying to run from them can be dangerous. That even though the police should be trained to deal with all sorts of bad behavior, such actions can nevertheless seriously place ones safety and even life in danger. And therefore doing so is a bad idea and should not be done.
And this is not just something that black men should understand. Disobeying the police, especially by running, let alone assaulting them, is understood by everyone in this country, both white and black, to be a stupid thing to do.
16
Where in the Constitution does it say that the police or any part of the US government has the right to detain a citizen against their will if they have done nothing wrong?
Allegedly, Mr Scott had a faulty tail-light. Big deal. Allegedly, Mr Scott was also behind with his child support payments. OK, I concede that the latter is a big deal in my book - but, still, it's essentially a civil matter. It's not enough to arrest a person on a criminal charge.
The supporters of the police cry - comply and complain! Comply and complain! But why? Quite apart from the uselessness of complaining to the police in the USA if you are poor and black, why should anyone ever have to comply with a bullyboy in a uniform?
Allegedly, Mr Scott had a faulty tail-light. Big deal. Allegedly, Mr Scott was also behind with his child support payments. OK, I concede that the latter is a big deal in my book - but, still, it's essentially a civil matter. It's not enough to arrest a person on a criminal charge.
The supporters of the police cry - comply and complain! Comply and complain! But why? Quite apart from the uselessness of complaining to the police in the USA if you are poor and black, why should anyone ever have to comply with a bullyboy in a uniform?
26
Citizens of this "very liberated country" may find it stunning but the roots of racism are very deep in this country. Here you have law enforcement members denying a part of its citizenry basic human rights.
Just Give your fellow Citizen the Basic Human Rights and Respect his Diginity. The Dignity of a Human Being is Untouchable!!
Just Give your fellow Citizen the Basic Human Rights and Respect his Diginity. The Dignity of a Human Being is Untouchable!!
11
The group that says Mr Scott should have shown absolute deference to the police sounds like the same group that is deeply offended when "Happy Holiday" is used in place of "Merry Christmas." Incongruous.
23
I thought the video evidence of Michael Brown justified his not being viewed as an innocent, college-bound gentle giant and made the grand jury's verdict and forensic evidence seem more credible. But there was no justification whatsoever for Scott being killed--and I have not seen any valid reason for the policeman to have done anything other than wan him his taillight was broken.
9
Sad but true. Many whites are coming to understand a truth they long denied. Many whites on this comments thread are still in denial. American municipal policing has become a conduit for this society to express it's inherent racial bias. The numbers don't lie. The system of zero tolerance policing against people of color in Ferguson . MO. is really a nationwide epidemic. The DOJ report from Ferguson must be used nationally as a template to test via regression the rates of negative police interaction (arrests, traffic stops where discretion is enabled) with persons of color in all suburban municipalities. I too have seen my local traffic court reflect a vastly different racial make-up than the town I live in. Coincidence? I think not!
8
If Scott had indeed tried to grab the stun gun from the cop's hand or holster, and tried to point it toward the cop, leave alone use it, then it is felony offense and a fleeing 'felon' is fair target for shooting. Slager's defense will, of course, put Scott the person (who might have stolen the Benz and who was delinquent on child support payments) and Scott's conduct during the encounter on trial in order to win an acquittal for his client.
During the stop, the officer behaves very professionally, and things go awfully awry once Scott starts running from the car. The fat lady has not sung yet, and it ain't over till it's over.
During the stop, the officer behaves very professionally, and things go awfully awry once Scott starts running from the car. The fat lady has not sung yet, and it ain't over till it's over.
7
This is why we need algorithmic government controls. Police stops are intrinsically dangerous and error prone.
In the future...
Cars with broken tail lights won't drive.
Cars carrying people with outstanding bench warrants will lock the doors, and deposit them at the nearest police station.
People skipping child support payments will have any and every purchase redirected to said children's accounts, because all currency and transactions will be digital.
Ultimately, all of these conversations about race and racism are soon going to be moot. Algorithmic control and smart tech is going to remove the possibility of escape and strife between cops and criminals. When you do something bad in the future, you won't get away with it. And the state response will be proportionate to the crime. And because it will all be mediated by smart technology and algos, no one will be able to blame race or racism for the outcome.
Ironically, giving a lot of control and agency over to algos and smart tech will only increase the culture's appreciation for and recognition of personal accountability, and the decisions a person makes.
In the future...
Cars with broken tail lights won't drive.
Cars carrying people with outstanding bench warrants will lock the doors, and deposit them at the nearest police station.
People skipping child support payments will have any and every purchase redirected to said children's accounts, because all currency and transactions will be digital.
Ultimately, all of these conversations about race and racism are soon going to be moot. Algorithmic control and smart tech is going to remove the possibility of escape and strife between cops and criminals. When you do something bad in the future, you won't get away with it. And the state response will be proportionate to the crime. And because it will all be mediated by smart technology and algos, no one will be able to blame race or racism for the outcome.
Ironically, giving a lot of control and agency over to algos and smart tech will only increase the culture's appreciation for and recognition of personal accountability, and the decisions a person makes.
6
The man's actions are, however. If he hadn't run -- potentially risking harm on innocents, he'd be alive and probably be put on bail now. He should not be dead, but his actions precipated his sad death.
Http://www.periodictablet.com
Http://www.periodictablet.com
3
It’s tempting to conclude that most people don’t think, understand, or care about how people are controlled, & how those who don’t conform are kept in line, but they do: they want such people, who don’t recognize the wisdom of the laws, punished and ultimately removed from their world, and that’s what police are for, and that’s why courts & jails are filled. Society wants results, even if many don’t want to know how police get the job done. Of course, when things go too far, something comes to light, they’re embarrassed, but they’re not unsatisfied by the current order: they only wish that people would be more obedient; they only wish enforcement could be done more politely. Watch a child play with his dolls & toys as he sets them up & moves them about & puts words in their mouths: he commands the action entirely. Maybe government ought not only to evaluate the budgetary implications of their measures but also how many lives may be ruined on their account. We elect them, and as police are fond of reminding us, we get as much law enforcement as we will tolerate.
It seems we cannot help ourselves. Race must always be the issue.
Ralphie--"While I agree the cop shouldn't have shot Scott in the back!" There is a question about this?! What follows in your comment is outrageous. The officer executed someone who was no visible threat to him. Vilifying all cops. Who is vilifying all cops by saying this shoudn't be allowed to happen. What Mr. Blow was doing was criticizing the specific actions of this officer and how police use force. How is that close to vilifying all cops??? The law doesn't allow police officers to shoot someone just because they run or resist arrest. If this is allowed, we can skip the legal proceedings altogether and allow police to decide who should live and who should die. There is a reason this officer is being charged with a criminal act. Your comments appear to justify a homicide if the man or woman wears a badge.
9
But wait a sec -- speculating that Scott might still be alive if he hadn't run isn't at all the same as saying that the shooting was justified, or that the victim was to blame.
11
It is rare to find a column where anger and eloquence co-exist so artfully. This is one of those times. Beautiful and chilling.
10
What troubles me about this case is the calm manner in which the officer seemed to cover-up his crime. Look at the video. He knew exactly how to make it look like a justified shooting. There was no, "Oh Jesus, what now?" moment. He very coolly goes back where he shot from, picks up his ejected cartridges, and drops them near the victim. Well aware there would be little or no investigation beyond taking his word for what happened, the officer fully expected to get away with his crime. How many other cops, nationwide, know the same?
84
Is Mr. Blow setting us up for some now suppressed by the media revelation about that Scott is a"less than perfect victim". After the careful media morphing of Martin et al into angelic "children" by showing pictures of them when they were 12 for months - one has to wonder what really happened in this latest incident. Not that it really matters.The police shoot innocent or not so innocent citizens all the time. Its just that when its a white woman police officer (a protected group) shooting an unarmed white guy with no family to wail for him in front of the cameras there's no chance for sensationalistic cheap content ... "an opportunity for our country to have a (phony) discussion about X, Y or Z". As opposed to what really is the base cause of most of our social dysfunction-inequality, things like outsourcing all manufacturing jobs to China/Mexico, allowing our few percent business owner nobility to mass immigration hire the functional equivalent of 10's of millions of slave immigrant workers thus totally destroying the power of labor to bargain for a living wage & a minimum wage that is 28% lower than it was in 1968. No the NY Times must keep its 1% advertisers making unearned trillions by rigging the economy against the rest of us happy.And that means distracting with weeks of whining about some jerk who was shot who if "we" ever found out what kind of a person he was would be thanking God he was killed before he killed a really innocent member of his minority community.
5
Drive thru Liberty City in Miami, Hunts Point in the Bronx, The South Side of Chicago, the Projects on Washington Ave in the Bronx, Baltimore Md. Compton, California,. Whites not welcome. Mr. Blow you beat the drum about injustice, but you do nothing to stop the crime and violence of African American's toward each other and the so called white class. Crime and poverty is not exclusive to the African American community. The Police are the very thin line that has the difficult job of keeping the piece. Obey the laws of the land is a good piece of advice for all citizens. Without the police our country will be chaos.
9
So is the choice a police state with no chaos or no police state with chaos? Surely we can do better than that.
I think Mr. Blow is completely wrong in trying to squash any talk of Mr. Scott's running from the North Charleston officer. Only by looking at why someone stopped for a minor motor vehicle offense would attempt to flee- escalating charges against him- can we look further at some unintended consequences of SC law, namely the imprisonment of those delinquent on child support payments. Nothing occurs in a vacuum, despite Mr. Blow's wish it were so. It is important to 'walk back the cat'; from the criminal shooting to Mr. Scott fleeing to why he might have fled. All signs point to fear of imprisonment over delinquent child support payments. Looking at revising the SC statute that allows for that punishment does not blame Mr. Scott, nor does it excuse the officer who rightly faces criminal charges. What it does do is help focus attention on an issue that appears to disproportionately punish lower income men.
23
The reason why he ran is very, very important. Asking why is in no way excusing the officer for killing this man who did nothing to deserve what happened to him. Asking why he ran is an attempt to prevent future killings.
Driving through the town of Goldfields, NV on a trip last year, my husband and I were stopped by the police. Knowing that Goldfields is a notorious speed trap, we were driving 22 mph in a 25 mph zone, so wondered what could possibly have inspired the cop to pull us over. He peered into the car, asked if we knew why he had stopped us (which we hadn't a clue), told us we were blocking our view through the windshield (with a necklace tightly wound around the stem of the rear view mirror), asked for our registration papers, insurance card and driver's license, and went back to his vehicle to run a background check. After considerable time, he returned to our car to ask us if we had any drugs or alcohol concealed that he should know about... !!! I was furious and normally tend to be a bit confrontational, but my husband kept signing to me to keep a lid on it until we were out of there. After about 20 minutes, the cop finally let us go with a warning, probably after convincing himself that it would be more trouble than it was worth to pursue.
The sense of threat (the cop's), fear and helplessness (ours) was palpable throughout the event. I've often wondered if the outcome might have been different had I not been in the car as a witness. My husband is African American. I am white.
The sense of threat (the cop's), fear and helplessness (ours) was palpable throughout the event. I've often wondered if the outcome might have been different had I not been in the car as a witness. My husband is African American. I am white.
54
This seems like a story about your own paranoia. Routine stop for a minor offense. Everything went as it should. No ticket. No violence. No confrontation. But you're still ruminating about it a year later and projecting about the cop.
1
Unfortunately your last two sentences underscore why you were pulled over. As noted criminal-defense attorney Mark Geragos has indicated ad nauseum, the officer was rousting the Black guy. The stated reason for the pull over was a pretext.
A perfectly predictable comment by the bloviating Mr. Blow. The self righteous fallacy that we live in absolute world, where a single, simple truth exists at the whim of the columnist is not unique to those on the left. The officer grossly exceeded his authority and deserves to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. The victim is hardly a poster child for innocence personified. The idea that his decisions--first and foremost, evading arrest--is somehow irrelevant to this incident is utter nonsense.
23
When the North Charleston Police released the dashcam video of Mr. Scott running from his car, I could just hear all the right wingers shouting, "See, see. I told you it had to be the Black guy's fault." There's no indication that the officer ordered Mr. Scott to stop or went to his car to put out a broadcast for a suspect fleeing. He just calmly shot him eight times in the back. You can argue til the cows come up that Mr. Scott is not a "poster child for innocence," but that will never justify the way he was gunned down.
5
@ John D No matter how you phrase it, you are the bloviator! No matter that he ran. That is not a cause for dying. The question is not whether the victim was a "poster child", but that none of what he did was cause for him to be murdered. He wasn't going to be arrested. He ran, maybe, because his experience as a black man dealing with the police was, he thought, his best option. Typical right wing blabber on your part.
5
He did not deserve to get gunned down like a rabid dog. Murdered because he ran away from a police officer. That's truly frightening! It's too bad you don't (or cannot) see it that way.
6
I have heard folks say so often that Iraqis or Iranians or Chinese or "those people" from Northern Ireland or the Middle East or wherever "do not think about life the way we do. Life is cheap and they do not value it." And we do?
45
Well.....ya. Check mortality rates of those countries in comparison.
All too often, only if they look like us.
While we focus on gun deaths, there are hundreds of people killed, including innocent bystanders, during high speed car chases.
The mentality that drives shootings also infects how police strive to get their man, at any cost. While there are some instances where the fleeing suspect may be known to pose a danger. Nearly all of the time they do not, and are just evading a possible arrest.
Here are some key stats (2008):
35-40% of all vehicular police pursuits ends in a crash.
91.4% of all chases are for non-violent crimes.
When someone dies during that pursuit, the police are rarely admonished, and never held accountable. In most cases, the officers have enough information to arrest the person at their home for fleeing the scene. Ah.... but that's no fun.
When will this cowboy mentality be put to pasture?
The mentality that drives shootings also infects how police strive to get their man, at any cost. While there are some instances where the fleeing suspect may be known to pose a danger. Nearly all of the time they do not, and are just evading a possible arrest.
Here are some key stats (2008):
35-40% of all vehicular police pursuits ends in a crash.
91.4% of all chases are for non-violent crimes.
When someone dies during that pursuit, the police are rarely admonished, and never held accountable. In most cases, the officers have enough information to arrest the person at their home for fleeing the scene. Ah.... but that's no fun.
When will this cowboy mentality be put to pasture?
37
The stories that have come out about the late Walter Scott's alleged misdeeds - none of them cause for prison time, let alone the death penalty - are something that's become sickeningly typical in a country with many people whose mentality seems to lie somewhere between the Puritans and the Taliban. The tendency to blame the victim is nothing less than an attempt to excuse the defendant. In even purely legalistic terms it's unethical and completely inappropriate. In moral terms, especially in a country supposedly founded on the bases of the Judeo-Christian ethic and the natural rights of mankind, it is completely disgusting, worthy of the mentality of the most odious regimes of the last century. What kind of a country have we become, anyway? And I'm starting to shudder to think of the answer.
48
I have read many of the comments and have read countless comments by Charles Blow. I would like to suggest that every once in a while some kind of devil's advocate needs to be brought in to break the patterns that are followed over and over again. That may require asking for a column not on topic.
Case in point: Where is the column that examines the law and the recommended police procedures for something as trivial as a non-working taillight? Who will answer these and related questions: 1) Why stop the car?, 2) Why not photograph the car and send the photograph for examination by an appropriate department?, 3) Why not then send a "summons" to the car owner and at the same time place that registration number on "hold" until the repair has been documented?
We have read in other columns that stopping cars for non-moving violations is used to finance local government. Why not develop a procedure based on my questions above and simply have a basic "broken-taillight" fee.
With that practice we reduce the number of opportunities for drivers to engage in unwise behavior and for police to draw a gun for an insignificant original offense.
I will put this at my blog just for the record. At the same time I will follow up my replies to Mark Thomason, a lawyer, by sending this to him asking for a purely legalistic review.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Case in point: Where is the column that examines the law and the recommended police procedures for something as trivial as a non-working taillight? Who will answer these and related questions: 1) Why stop the car?, 2) Why not photograph the car and send the photograph for examination by an appropriate department?, 3) Why not then send a "summons" to the car owner and at the same time place that registration number on "hold" until the repair has been documented?
We have read in other columns that stopping cars for non-moving violations is used to finance local government. Why not develop a procedure based on my questions above and simply have a basic "broken-taillight" fee.
With that practice we reduce the number of opportunities for drivers to engage in unwise behavior and for police to draw a gun for an insignificant original offense.
I will put this at my blog just for the record. At the same time I will follow up my replies to Mark Thomason, a lawyer, by sending this to him asking for a purely legalistic review.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
22
@ Larry Lundgren -"With that practice we reduce the number of opportunities for drivers to engage in unwise behavior and for police to draw a gun for an insignificant original offense."
The broken tail light was the cause of the stop to be sure, however the gun was drawn only after a fight ensued. It is not correct to state the gun was drawn "for an insignificant original offense." It is never a good idea to fight with an officer of the law.
The broken tail light was the cause of the stop to be sure, however the gun was drawn only after a fight ensued. It is not correct to state the gun was drawn "for an insignificant original offense." It is never a good idea to fight with an officer of the law.
Some jurrisdictions do what you suggest. My wife and my stepson like to laugh at the picture of my car going 47 mph in a 35 mph zone. The fine request came in the mail. No one had to shoot me.
Jena 6, Crown Heights, Freddys Fashion Mart, Cleveland TX gangrape, anti-Asian violence and harassment in the 90's. These are a few of many incidents of black civil rights violations of others in which the victim was blamed by black leftists and the paper Blow writes for took their side. I don't remember any condemnation of this by Blow. In my city we recently had a stand your ground shooting where a black man with a long violent criminal history (including rape and kidnapping) shot an unarmed white man then claimed the white man called him a racial slur. There was no evidence this happened and witnessed disputed it and the black mans claim the white man was antagonizing him. Yet our left wing local media took the black mans side due simply to an unproven allegation that the murdered white man said the "n" word. I wish Blow would have written a column about this.
5
And because a black man, in this one instance, played a false race card, that automatically invalidates a completely unrelated incident?
Several readers point out a factor that now seems a no-brainer.
Why should we ever hire combat veterans as police?
They are always prone to reenactment. Show me a war veteran who does NOT have PTSD and "go off" on occasion.
We stack the odds against our citizen's safety and the public welfare just by taking on these "injured" men. Our veterans are probably the worst group of police candidates available. Maybe OK for SWAT or special hostage teams but on the street everyday with regular folks. It is much too risky and asking for trouble.
Moreover, "enhanced" video of the encounter according to Plummer Joe wants to indicate the officer was tasered by Scott. This appears to be the developing defense to "justify" Slager's shooting Scott. Let's see how this plays out.
Another thing I don't understand why Slager gave chase since no crime was or had been committed. And from the "stop" video someone appears to be sitting in the passenger seat of Scott's car. Still not clear that Slager knew there was a warrant out for Scott. If he didn't learn of warrant AND if there was a passenger in Scott's car, why would Slager give chase? Why would he have to? Seems lots of unanswered questions. When if at all did Slager learn that he had a warrant.
The bottom-line is that there appears to be little justification for the chase and absolutely no sane reason in the world to take Scott's life over this incident. There is a "sporting" aspect to the whole deal that is most troubling.
Why should we ever hire combat veterans as police?
They are always prone to reenactment. Show me a war veteran who does NOT have PTSD and "go off" on occasion.
We stack the odds against our citizen's safety and the public welfare just by taking on these "injured" men. Our veterans are probably the worst group of police candidates available. Maybe OK for SWAT or special hostage teams but on the street everyday with regular folks. It is much too risky and asking for trouble.
Moreover, "enhanced" video of the encounter according to Plummer Joe wants to indicate the officer was tasered by Scott. This appears to be the developing defense to "justify" Slager's shooting Scott. Let's see how this plays out.
Another thing I don't understand why Slager gave chase since no crime was or had been committed. And from the "stop" video someone appears to be sitting in the passenger seat of Scott's car. Still not clear that Slager knew there was a warrant out for Scott. If he didn't learn of warrant AND if there was a passenger in Scott's car, why would Slager give chase? Why would he have to? Seems lots of unanswered questions. When if at all did Slager learn that he had a warrant.
The bottom-line is that there appears to be little justification for the chase and absolutely no sane reason in the world to take Scott's life over this incident. There is a "sporting" aspect to the whole deal that is most troubling.
10
If all combat veterans are to be treated as mentally defective than can we in good conscience ever go to war. I am impressed that someone with no expertise can diagnose an entire population without any evidence. Personally I would prefer outlawing patrols by fewer than two police, and requiring more than a high school diploma might not be a bad idea.
1
I keep thinking about James Holmes murdering all those people in Aurora, Colorado, and being arrested without any violence done to him. And I think about Jared Loughner who shot 19 people, killing 6, including a child, and shot Gabby Giffords in the head, and he was arrested without any violence done to him.
How does that square up with black men being shot to death for misdemeanors?
How does that square up with black men being shot to death for misdemeanors?
43
Supposedly the officers who shoot, at times to kill, are not deranged, psychotic individuals like Holmes, Loughner et al
I fail to see the equivalency between their heinous acts and those of the police officers doing routine traffic stops and then shooting a man, even one on the run
I fail to see the equivalency between their heinous acts and those of the police officers doing routine traffic stops and then shooting a man, even one on the run
2
This is a powerful, acute observation. I felt that the original column by Charles Blow was being strangely critical of those who simply pointed out specific facts of this case/context. But you make the bias that leads to tragedies like this incredibly clear with these two examples. Thank you.
I keep thinking about how people like Rose in PA cherry pick. There are plenty of unarmed whites killed by the police and plenty of dangerous blacks who are apprehended alive. There have been a dozen times in my life-Crown Heights- LA riots, Seattle Madi Gras riots, NYC Puerto Rican Day parade, etc- where the police stood by and allowed blacks to murder, assault, rape and rob innocent people without interfering. I do not remember any objection by black activists about this or labeling it "police brutality". I'm sure the racial makeup of perp and victim is why.
It’s distressing to see Charles Blow join the ranks of those who have become so obsessed with the killing of black men by white police officers, they have severed the bonds of rational thought. I have labeled the killing of Scott as horrible and said I look forward to the officer being put away for life. I am also one of those who has pointed out that if Scott had not run, he almost certainly would be alive. I make a more general observation: black males should never run when dealing with the police. I consider myself a rational human being, and I fail utterly to follow Blow’s argument that my saying Scott’s fleeing contributed to his death means that I am, in some way, excusing Slager’s actions, or diminishing his guilt. This is such a flagrant red herring, such a straw man, it’s difficult to fashion a riposte.
Let me be respond to Blow’s bluntness about me by being blunt in my judgment about him: It seems to me, sir, that you and others have become more comfortable with having a dead black martyr on your hands than you are with a living black man. Common sense says that running exponentially increases the likelihood that you will be shot. What in heaven’s name is wrong with emphasizing that point, hoping to ram it into the brains of every black man? My goal is to keep more black men alive, and you twist that into excusing their killers? Only my recognition of what an emotional issue this is for you keeps my own anger in check over such an outrageous allegation.
Let me be respond to Blow’s bluntness about me by being blunt in my judgment about him: It seems to me, sir, that you and others have become more comfortable with having a dead black martyr on your hands than you are with a living black man. Common sense says that running exponentially increases the likelihood that you will be shot. What in heaven’s name is wrong with emphasizing that point, hoping to ram it into the brains of every black man? My goal is to keep more black men alive, and you twist that into excusing their killers? Only my recognition of what an emotional issue this is for you keeps my own anger in check over such an outrageous allegation.
20
Common sense says that running away when someone is tasering you is a good idea. What the heck was Mr. Scott supposed to do, force himself to stay put when electrical currents were being shocking into him? I know if someone were trying to electrocute me I would be trying to run away.
I'm glad you recognize the severity of this crime, but I do not understand at how you can look at all these killings and then claim Mr. Blow and others are blowing the race issue out of proportion. Why would you not believe that these killings are racially triggered? POCs have every right to be angry, and those of us who are not need to help them push for change.
I'm glad you recognize the severity of this crime, but I do not understand at how you can look at all these killings and then claim Mr. Blow and others are blowing the race issue out of proportion. Why would you not believe that these killings are racially triggered? POCs have every right to be angry, and those of us who are not need to help them push for change.
I am white. My stepson is a nine-year-old black African child. I instruct my black wife and black stepson to respond to any police demand with utmost poliieness and NEVER, NEVER run. To save their lives.
I think it would just be decent of you to not say "he shouldn't have run or he would be alive today." That's like saying "if she didn't wear that low cut dress she wouldn't have been raped." Both might be true, but have you no sense of civility, enough to keep that between yourself and the black men you know who you are "keeping alive" with your advice? Or is your goal to keep white men alive also with that advice or do you think they know that already? What I find "outrageous" about your fury is that you clearly believe that "shooting a man in the back" is justified when law enforcement across the United States do not. That this cop has been charged with murder proves it.
5
The defense attorney for the police officer will try to put Walter Scott on trial. They tried to do just that before the video surfaced. As a retired NYPD lieutenant, I believe this case and the shooting of Michael Brown by Officer Darren Wilson in Ferguson MO are fairly similar. We will never know since there is no video that we know of from Ferguson. I believe Wilson forced Brown into a confrontation at his radio car, then shot him, they chased him over 100 yards before forcing Brown to make a move that "allowed" Wilson to get away with murder. Just my take as a 30-year police veteran.
24
In many of these recent tragedies--the killings of Garner, Brown, and now Scott--the officers seemed motivated by rage and pride--a sort of humiliation that they were not being obeyed. The officers made rash decisions in a fit of anger ending a life. Perhaps more training needs to be introduced. A type that teaches officers to manage those feelings of humiliation, like somehow they are a bad cops, embarrassed cops, if they let a suspect go. Perhaps the new training argues that sometimes it's the safest, smartest, bravest thing to do, to let someone get away. Many of suspects killed recently would have been caught alive in a few hours if they were not so aggressively engaged upon by the police. Sometimes the best police action is counter-intuitive. Sometimes the best way to protect is to let the suspect flee.
19
PE
why do you keep insisting that Officer Wilson was wrong in shooting Michael Brown? Brown attacked him, tried to take his gun, charged him. The "hands up, don't shoot" narrative has been shown to be invalid. A grand jury and a justice department investigation found that Wilson acted reasonably. So what is your point?
why do you keep insisting that Officer Wilson was wrong in shooting Michael Brown? Brown attacked him, tried to take his gun, charged him. The "hands up, don't shoot" narrative has been shown to be invalid. A grand jury and a justice department investigation found that Wilson acted reasonably. So what is your point?
"There is no moral equivalency between running and killing...Death is not the appropriate punishment for disobedience."
Well, well said and gets to what I feel is the discussion to be had; police must be trained to be component to act appropriately in situations that present themselves. The officer who shot Mr. Scott was incompetent.
Well, well said and gets to what I feel is the discussion to be had; police must be trained to be component to act appropriately in situations that present themselves. The officer who shot Mr. Scott was incompetent.
16
"It is tragic to somehow try to falsely equate what appear to be bad decisions made by Scott and those made by the officer who killed him. "
I don't know to what television discussions Mr. Blow refers in this column, but I'd be shocked if anyone worthy of being included in such discussions would have equated Mr. Scott's possible legal issues with his killing.
This is not Ferguson. There is no evidence or claim that the officer could have felt himself in danger from Mr. Scott. Haters will always be with us but their "views" are not reflected in policy. Nor, I suspect, were such views held by Mr. Blow's co-panelists, who more than likely merely expressed the indisputable point that had Mr. Scott stayed in his car he would be alive today. To express this point is not to exonerate the officer who killed Mr. Scott, nor is it the same as arguing moral equivalency, so I don't see the point of Mr. Blow devoting a column to it. There are enough real issues out there which can benefit from Mr. Blow's perspective. Why choose a non-issue instead?
I don't know to what television discussions Mr. Blow refers in this column, but I'd be shocked if anyone worthy of being included in such discussions would have equated Mr. Scott's possible legal issues with his killing.
This is not Ferguson. There is no evidence or claim that the officer could have felt himself in danger from Mr. Scott. Haters will always be with us but their "views" are not reflected in policy. Nor, I suspect, were such views held by Mr. Blow's co-panelists, who more than likely merely expressed the indisputable point that had Mr. Scott stayed in his car he would be alive today. To express this point is not to exonerate the officer who killed Mr. Scott, nor is it the same as arguing moral equivalency, so I don't see the point of Mr. Blow devoting a column to it. There are enough real issues out there which can benefit from Mr. Blow's perspective. Why choose a non-issue instead?
8
I don't think that it's "indisputable" that Mr. Scott would be alive today if he'd stayed in his car. After all if Slager had no good reason to shoot him when he was out of the car and running away, there's no good reason to suppose that he wouldn't have done the same with the victim in the car. Maybe that's why Mr. Scott ran.
1
But it's not a non-issue. I have seen comments on this very site on other articles about this killing where people are honestly saying "oh, if only he hadn't run"..."this could have been avoided if he'd just done what he was told", etc. This is victim blaming. This is trying to find an excuse to avoid the cold hard truth that a police officer murdered an innocent man for no reason. Saying things like that IS trying to exonerate the police officer, or shift some of the burden of guilt off of him. No. He should have had better judgement, and I am very disheartened that people are using Mr. Scott's petty criminal record as a reason to diminish the crime of his killing
Unfortunately, I can attest to this: I watch Fox news sometimes for the fun of it, to see what the clowns have to say. Let me tell you. They were searching - literally searching - for some reasonable explanation for the cop shooting the victim. Over and over - "but what happened between the two videos?" "did he try to take the taser?" blah, blah, blah. I don't know what shows Mr. Blow was on and I did not see him on Fox. But this is not a "non-issue" - these folks were serious about defending the policeman by finding fault with the victim.
2
while I agree the cop shouldn't have shot Scott in the back, I think some questions/points are in order"
1) would Charles Blow have been as enraged if a Black cop had killed a white man? It happens, but Charles never writes about that. Or about Black crime rates.
2) We don't know if the police officer was racist or not. We don't know why he shot but we have no evidence that the shooting was motivated by racism.
3) The shooting of Walter Scott is tragic but should not be used as a pretext for vilifying all cops.
4) The many commenters who have suggested that Scott was right to run because as a Black man he should have expected he would be the victim of police violence once he was stopped are simply asinine.
5) Scott was not running from an angry White cop. If you watch the dash cam there was nothing threatening in the officer's demeanor. Scott ran, period.
6) And Scott ran, scuffled, ran again. We don't know the extent of the struggle or exactly what happened with the taser but under any circumstances Scott was resisting arrest.
7) This shooting has nothing to do with how people feel about Obama. People who disagree with Obama are not racist, they simply disagree with him.
8) The pundits and looters and rioters were wrong about what happened in Ferguson. They would have been wise to egg things on.
9) There is nothing to suggest that the SC officer's actions were premeditated. Nothing to suggest he was out hunting Blacks. Nothing at all.
1) would Charles Blow have been as enraged if a Black cop had killed a white man? It happens, but Charles never writes about that. Or about Black crime rates.
2) We don't know if the police officer was racist or not. We don't know why he shot but we have no evidence that the shooting was motivated by racism.
3) The shooting of Walter Scott is tragic but should not be used as a pretext for vilifying all cops.
4) The many commenters who have suggested that Scott was right to run because as a Black man he should have expected he would be the victim of police violence once he was stopped are simply asinine.
5) Scott was not running from an angry White cop. If you watch the dash cam there was nothing threatening in the officer's demeanor. Scott ran, period.
6) And Scott ran, scuffled, ran again. We don't know the extent of the struggle or exactly what happened with the taser but under any circumstances Scott was resisting arrest.
7) This shooting has nothing to do with how people feel about Obama. People who disagree with Obama are not racist, they simply disagree with him.
8) The pundits and looters and rioters were wrong about what happened in Ferguson. They would have been wise to egg things on.
9) There is nothing to suggest that the SC officer's actions were premeditated. Nothing to suggest he was out hunting Blacks. Nothing at all.
27
Sorry, but so what if he ran? Does that in any way justify being shot at and killed? And then being handcuffed? Whatever the police had on Scott were minor offenses not worthy of the excessive treatment he received. An absolute abuse of police authority.
33
1. Probably not, but a black cop killing a white criminal doesn't tie back to a long history of oppression.
2. "Evidence of racism" doesn't mean the police officer had to be a member of the KKK. As I've been paying more attention to discrimination in our culture (usually sexism, because I'm a woman, but the same thing applies to racism), I've come to realize just how much of discrimination is subliminal. We think we're open-minded and would say (and believe) that sexism and racism is wrong. But a lot of unconscious or snap judgement decisions we make are in fact discriminatory. In terms of racism, there's a problem with officers automatically assuming blacks are criminals, and treating them more poorly as a result. And in a case like this, the officer decided that the man deserved to die for...what exactly? What good reason would he have to shoot a man in the back?
3. This is not a stand-alone case. This case is part of a pattern.
4. No it's not.
5. And this justifies the cop killing him?
6. We have two videos. And again, resisting arrest is justification for arrest. Not for death.
7. That's the first thing you've said I agree with.
8. They were wrong to loot, but their anger is justified.
9. No, I highly doubt it was premeditated, but that doesn't mean Mr. Scott wasn't the victim of a snap-judgement racial profiling.
2. "Evidence of racism" doesn't mean the police officer had to be a member of the KKK. As I've been paying more attention to discrimination in our culture (usually sexism, because I'm a woman, but the same thing applies to racism), I've come to realize just how much of discrimination is subliminal. We think we're open-minded and would say (and believe) that sexism and racism is wrong. But a lot of unconscious or snap judgement decisions we make are in fact discriminatory. In terms of racism, there's a problem with officers automatically assuming blacks are criminals, and treating them more poorly as a result. And in a case like this, the officer decided that the man deserved to die for...what exactly? What good reason would he have to shoot a man in the back?
3. This is not a stand-alone case. This case is part of a pattern.
4. No it's not.
5. And this justifies the cop killing him?
6. We have two videos. And again, resisting arrest is justification for arrest. Not for death.
7. That's the first thing you've said I agree with.
8. They were wrong to loot, but their anger is justified.
9. No, I highly doubt it was premeditated, but that doesn't mean Mr. Scott wasn't the victim of a snap-judgement racial profiling.
28
One should always be wary of talking of the last remaining forms of some immoral attitudes. If we have learnt anything from the abuse targeted at Blacks and othe minorities, we should have learnt how difficult it is to be aware of latent prejudice in our attitudes to particular groups until this prejudice is forcefully pointed out. Why did the murderer fire eight rounds in the back of an unarmed man?
6
I see no disconnect with being deeply troubled by this apparent cold blooded murder and at the same time noting that if Scott hadn't run he likely still be alive. Facts are facts, it isn't victim blaming.
10
running is not a justification for shooting.
1
And if he had been facing the officer we'd no doubt be hearing claims that he was advancing on the officer in a "threatening manner." The point, since it seems to escape so many people, is that running away from a policeman should not be a capital offense.
Because the onus needs to be on the police officers to responsibly wield the power they possess. I get what you're saying, but to me a lot of the "this could have been avoided if he hadn't run" thing just seems to be people not wanting to deal with the fact that a supposedly upstanding officer did something horribly.
2
Such a lack of logic in this article.
The cop should not have shot Mr. Scott in the back. Mr. Scott should not have run away from the cop. These are both true statements--I can believe both of these and be logically consistent. I watched much TV coverage this weekend and I didn't hear a single commentator state or infer that Mr. Scott somehow deserved or caused his death because he ran. In fact, there seems to nearly complete unanimity that the shooting was grossly unjustified and against all police procedures & laws. So why is Mr. Blow claiming otherwise? He's the one who's "wandering into the weeds" by alleging that there's a justifiable causal link being made where no one is actually making it.
Further, since it's not clear if the cop actually got info about Mr. Scott & his child support warrant from the computer before Mr. Scott ran, it's premature for Mr. Blow to claim that Mr. Scott got the "death sentence" for that offense. For all the cop knew, Mr. Scott could have been a car thief, bank robber, or fugitive felon. This case is appalling enough without commentators like Mr. Blow applying ex post facto logic to the facts of this case. Can't we wait for the facts to come out before leaping to our own conclusions & making impassioned but illogical & non-factual arguments? In my opinion, we won't solve our problems until we approach it this way. Passion without logic & fact only results in inflamed arguments & people taking sides without reason.
The cop should not have shot Mr. Scott in the back. Mr. Scott should not have run away from the cop. These are both true statements--I can believe both of these and be logically consistent. I watched much TV coverage this weekend and I didn't hear a single commentator state or infer that Mr. Scott somehow deserved or caused his death because he ran. In fact, there seems to nearly complete unanimity that the shooting was grossly unjustified and against all police procedures & laws. So why is Mr. Blow claiming otherwise? He's the one who's "wandering into the weeds" by alleging that there's a justifiable causal link being made where no one is actually making it.
Further, since it's not clear if the cop actually got info about Mr. Scott & his child support warrant from the computer before Mr. Scott ran, it's premature for Mr. Blow to claim that Mr. Scott got the "death sentence" for that offense. For all the cop knew, Mr. Scott could have been a car thief, bank robber, or fugitive felon. This case is appalling enough without commentators like Mr. Blow applying ex post facto logic to the facts of this case. Can't we wait for the facts to come out before leaping to our own conclusions & making impassioned but illogical & non-factual arguments? In my opinion, we won't solve our problems until we approach it this way. Passion without logic & fact only results in inflamed arguments & people taking sides without reason.
11
Mr. Blow is writing about it because he has been seeing people blaming Mr. Scott for what happened, or at least inferring that this whole thing could have been avoided if only he had done X, while ignoring the fact that this could have been avoided if the officer just hadn't pulled the trigger. I've seen comments on this very site to that effect, I don't get why you and others are accusing Mr. Blow of writing about a non-issue. It's there, believe me. Try some of the other news sites if you're not seeing it.
1
The deeper problem is the means provided to the police for carrying out their job. So long as violence remains the primary tool for providing protection, enforcement, and even some of the services police are responsible for, it will attract a good many people who enjoy using violence.
Some serious thought, both technological and social, on how to change the methodology of police service and enforcement methods needs to be undertaken. The taser was a (very) modest step in this direction, but here is case of egregious use of deadly force where this alternative was available. Moreover, as a person with a small computer running my heart, I fear s taser as much as a bullet.
Fortunately for me, I am an elderly white man, and thus far, far less likely to be shot in the back (or front, or side) than a young black man. But I fear for my wife, younger, and with some African-American heritage (among other) should we have any untoward encounter with the police.
Some serious thought, both technological and social, on how to change the methodology of police service and enforcement methods needs to be undertaken. The taser was a (very) modest step in this direction, but here is case of egregious use of deadly force where this alternative was available. Moreover, as a person with a small computer running my heart, I fear s taser as much as a bullet.
Fortunately for me, I am an elderly white man, and thus far, far less likely to be shot in the back (or front, or side) than a young black man. But I fear for my wife, younger, and with some African-American heritage (among other) should we have any untoward encounter with the police.
6
One point which seems to have been overlooked (not even mentioned in Mr. Blows piece).............eight shots were fired. The same is true for most of the shootings. Why multiple rounds? Wouldn't one shot, injuring and disabling the suspect be sufficient?
21
The most serious underlying issues here are the intimidation and threatening tactics used by far too many police in our country. Psychologists talk about fight-flight as responses to the emotion of fear. Well, you can't fight a cop with a hand on his gun, so the sometimes overwhelming other response is to flee.
Many years ago, I was stopped for a driving infraction later dismissed in court, and two police with hands on holsters approached the driver, a middle-aged man. I had enough control of my emotions, I did not run, and did not get shot. My car was searched, because there was "probable cause", and they found my bag of soccer balls and practice gear. I do my best to avoid the police. Period.
What has to happen in the dialogue about police in our country is that police have to learn to be far less intimidating and confrontational. No matter what the situation, it is not all about the police.
We also need mandatory reporting nationwide of killings, both immediate and bleeding out, by police. The wonderful slogan of a now-defunct high-tech company, Rolm, applies perfectly here: "If you can't measure it, you can't control it." Can we hope that Congress will have a moment of bipartisan good will and legislate mandatory reporting of killing by cops, so we can get a grip on this sad phenomenon?
Many years ago, I was stopped for a driving infraction later dismissed in court, and two police with hands on holsters approached the driver, a middle-aged man. I had enough control of my emotions, I did not run, and did not get shot. My car was searched, because there was "probable cause", and they found my bag of soccer balls and practice gear. I do my best to avoid the police. Period.
What has to happen in the dialogue about police in our country is that police have to learn to be far less intimidating and confrontational. No matter what the situation, it is not all about the police.
We also need mandatory reporting nationwide of killings, both immediate and bleeding out, by police. The wonderful slogan of a now-defunct high-tech company, Rolm, applies perfectly here: "If you can't measure it, you can't control it." Can we hope that Congress will have a moment of bipartisan good will and legislate mandatory reporting of killing by cops, so we can get a grip on this sad phenomenon?
17
I agree with Mr. Blow, the video is indeed disturbing. He is also right that we need to closely examine the use of force by police. However, any analysis must look at the way in which an encounter escalates. To state the irrefutable fact that Eric Garner, Michael Brown and Walter Scott would all be alive today if they followed the lawful instructions of the police, does not in any way change the fact that at least two of the three encounters were not handled correctly by the police. But to ignore their behavior as a contributing factor, does not help us avoid future deadly confrontations.
7
People tune in to see close tournament finishes, they don't want to see domination. I was bored to death so I turned it off for good by Friday. Golf has every reason to be concerned if their majors aren't competitive. There's nothing in sports more boring to watch than a non-competitive golf tournament.
I did not see those TV discussions Blow mentions, but I cannot help but wonder if what he perceives as blaming the victim is instead the very human impulse of finding a way to convince ourselves that we are not at risk as well.
We need to identify some contributing factor that would not apply to us to enable us to put the horror behind us. Depending on the tragedy, we would not run, or be on that overloaded third world ferry, or live in a drug and crime infested neighborhood, and so on.
The alternative is to live in constant fear.
We need to identify some contributing factor that would not apply to us to enable us to put the horror behind us. Depending on the tragedy, we would not run, or be on that overloaded third world ferry, or live in a drug and crime infested neighborhood, and so on.
The alternative is to live in constant fear.
11
Nice.
I see the mouth pieces of the powerstructure using that kind of model to alter the perception of the facts so that making fundamental changes to the system they set up which would make it back into the much more faire and reasonable system they destroyed is not one of the "solutions" that arises from the public post incident discussion of it.
If its partly the fault of the victim then the structure really doesn't have to be changed we only have to remove this cop. If the victim is not at fault then we have to ask why a normal cop did this and that leads to the changes they want to prevent.
I see the mouth pieces of the powerstructure using that kind of model to alter the perception of the facts so that making fundamental changes to the system they set up which would make it back into the much more faire and reasonable system they destroyed is not one of the "solutions" that arises from the public post incident discussion of it.
If its partly the fault of the victim then the structure really doesn't have to be changed we only have to remove this cop. If the victim is not at fault then we have to ask why a normal cop did this and that leads to the changes they want to prevent.
This is a horrible outcome, but neither surprising nor unexpected. We must face the fact that our government made the laws about child support and tasked the police with enforcing them. When you send armed men to take people into custody against their will, you must expect that some of the time, people will be killed.
If not this, what DO we want officers to do when someone runs from them? What exactly ARE we arming them for?
If not this, what DO we want officers to do when someone runs from them? What exactly ARE we arming them for?
7
They are armed to PROTECT people from physical harm when an aggressor represents an immediate threat. They are not armed to shoot unarmed 50-year-olds in the back. When someone runs from an officer, perhaps we want the officer to chase them or use nonlethal submission techniques?
5
Not paying child support doesn't warrant being killed. What do I want officers to do when someone who isn't a violent offender and isn't armed runs from them? How about chase them? Or how about go back, get in your car, and show up at his job or house the next day and arrest him after impounding his car? If a person isn't a threat, they shouldn't be treated as if they deserve the death penalty. This guy wasn't just unarmed in this moment; there is no evidence he was any sort of violent threat at all, ever. He was just a regular guy driving down the road. Not paying your child support deserves some public humiliation ( like get arrested at work--I like that) and having your wages garnished, not violence.
13
To use their weapons for their own defense and defense of others. Those weapons are NOT, at least in this day and age, just a general tool for apprehending someone. The old concept of using deadly force on a "fleeing felon" was based on the English law of the time that effectively defined all felonies as capital crimes and all subject to the penalty of death. That was a couple of centuries ago - we are, I hope, more enlightened these days.
3
The commenst thread is not letting all the comments show so I am going to reply to Robert from LoAngeles here.
The ides of teaching children to obey police is to protect them. as far as I know the police have not taken to abusing children yet.
As an adult it is another matter. In my experience for the most part the "instructions" police issue to adults are more often than not intended to insult and demean that adult often it looks to me as an intentional provocation seeking to get a response that allows them to use force, not for any legitimate policing purpose.
Mt Scott's apparent reason for flight speaks more to the nature of our society and how it is now set up to keep the poor poor and prevent self motivated upward mobility than it does his not obeying a Policeman's order. Sure he would probably not be dead if he stayed put but he would have lost that car and the money he spent on it, he would have lost the new job and he would have lost other things I do not know about. His running I deduce was a spontaneous plan to get away so he could arrange to salvage the car by having family or someone he knew buy it or pay to get it out of impound and to rearrange his life so that when he went to jail as he knew was inevitable his affairs were in order as much as they could be to limit as much loss as he could.
It is much more expensive to be poor than most realise.
The ides of teaching children to obey police is to protect them. as far as I know the police have not taken to abusing children yet.
As an adult it is another matter. In my experience for the most part the "instructions" police issue to adults are more often than not intended to insult and demean that adult often it looks to me as an intentional provocation seeking to get a response that allows them to use force, not for any legitimate policing purpose.
Mt Scott's apparent reason for flight speaks more to the nature of our society and how it is now set up to keep the poor poor and prevent self motivated upward mobility than it does his not obeying a Policeman's order. Sure he would probably not be dead if he stayed put but he would have lost that car and the money he spent on it, he would have lost the new job and he would have lost other things I do not know about. His running I deduce was a spontaneous plan to get away so he could arrange to salvage the car by having family or someone he knew buy it or pay to get it out of impound and to rearrange his life so that when he went to jail as he knew was inevitable his affairs were in order as much as they could be to limit as much loss as he could.
It is much more expensive to be poor than most realise.
17
I agree with everything you've said. Much of the social policy in Los Angeles, has created a permanent underclass that will never know upward mobility. Most specifically the policies regarding illegal immigrants, and allowing them to compete wrongfully and unfairly with legal immigrants and the already stagnant citizen.
Further, realignment of prisons in CA, puts the public and officers at risk, and crime in tough areas already doubled within a few months of the change in prison and offense policy.
The most publicized encounters with police, HAVE been between officers and men and women already with records or histories of breaking the law. True, being poor is expensive.
But poor people have as much a moral obligation to be law abiding and responsible, for the same reason. However petty they think that infraction is.
The poor are vulnerable to being victims of crime, and the presence of police is necessary more where they are.
It's turning into a conundrum that shouldn't be there.
Further, realignment of prisons in CA, puts the public and officers at risk, and crime in tough areas already doubled within a few months of the change in prison and offense policy.
The most publicized encounters with police, HAVE been between officers and men and women already with records or histories of breaking the law. True, being poor is expensive.
But poor people have as much a moral obligation to be law abiding and responsible, for the same reason. However petty they think that infraction is.
The poor are vulnerable to being victims of crime, and the presence of police is necessary more where they are.
It's turning into a conundrum that shouldn't be there.
I know we each perceive his act of running from out own point of view. I think for black men in America, stopped by any police officer for any reason, and asked to get out of the car, running is the only chance they have of not being shot like a dog in the street. What will it take to convince people that this is an issue of race, racial prejudice, the rise of police officers mainly trained by violent video games (they ALL empty their clips now, as if playing a game), and social inequality. If anyone had ANY doubt about who officer Slager was, his complete disregard for the condition of the man he shot shows it all: he is a callous cold-hearted person with a reckless disregard for human life. I don't care what his mother and step-mother think. I was a criminal lawyer, and every Mom defends their son. It means nothing.
1
I appreciate your overall comment, but would like to point out that Tamir Rice was 12 when shot by police and left to die. He was playing and not running from the police.
3
This has nothing to do with the personal responsibility of the victim. Rather, what happened should be seen as every libertarian's and conservative's -- the vocal proponents of personal responsibility-- worst nightmare. What occurred was a monumental abuse of power by a state agent acting in that capacity, and hence by the state itself. This was big, powerful, armed "government" at its worst-- using its position of power to cause the death of an unarmed citizen.
44
Anyone ever think that Walter Scott ran because he was just tired of it all? That he ran because he knew what would happen next?
I wonder.
That doesn't excuse what the police officer did, by any means. I mean, the cop acted predictably. There's no reason, ever, to believe that a police officer has the best interest of the public in mind in any circumstance. History bears out this truth.
When you're in a situation like Walter Scott was in, panic settles into your bones. The shear unpredictability of whether you got pulled over by a "good" cop or a "bad" cop is overwhelming to the senses.
Tell me, what is justice?
And why should we have any reason whatsoever to hope?
I wonder.
That doesn't excuse what the police officer did, by any means. I mean, the cop acted predictably. There's no reason, ever, to believe that a police officer has the best interest of the public in mind in any circumstance. History bears out this truth.
When you're in a situation like Walter Scott was in, panic settles into your bones. The shear unpredictability of whether you got pulled over by a "good" cop or a "bad" cop is overwhelming to the senses.
Tell me, what is justice?
And why should we have any reason whatsoever to hope?
4
Right on the mark, Mr. Blow. One sentence points to where all of the obfuscating began, when you refer to people "equating" the bad decisions made by Scott with those "made by the officer". When the police chief in Charleston referred to the officer's "bad decisions", he began the slow but steady process of diminishing the significance of his act, and therefore allowing a comparison with Mr. Scott's attempted flight. I wouldn't usually term a "bad decision", cold-blooded murder and the completely gratuitous use of a gun by an officer we assume was well-trained. The local authorities have been highly praised for quickly charging the officer with murder. It remains to be seen whether this is just a punt to a jury trial where, as we know from experience, the most bizarre verdicts may emerge.
6
The Ferguson, Long Island and NC incidents all had one similarity. When one resists arrest or attempts to escape from a police officer, it increases the risk to this tragedy. Maybe the real lesson needs to be....whether it is perceived as fair or not......DON'T CONFRONT THE POLICE WITH RESISTENCE OF ANY MANNER.
6
Mr.magicisnotreal spells out the risk:"In my experience for the most part the "instructions" police issue to adults are more often than not intended to insult and demean that adult often it looks to me as an intentional provocation seeking to get a response that allows them to use force, not for any legitimate policing purpose."
Good luck at y;our next traffic stop.
Good luck at y;our next traffic stop.
2
Maybe better training and better understanding of what their role in a community is would go a great deal further. Just quietly acquiescing to demands may prevent or forestall an immediate problem, but it won't build bridges and it won't build trust. It is, ultimately a highly corrosive approach to dealing with government when you're forced into a subservient posture always. Contrast what happened here with what happened with Cliven Bundy and that small army who happily point their weapons at the police. That had a very different ending and, in all likelihood, that ending had a great deal to do with the dominant race of the people there.
2
Tamir Rice? Also, have we reached a point that the Bill of Rights no longer applies? BTW, the argument you are making is the same made by the British crown in 1775. How'd that work out for them?
2
I find th ekilling of Mr. Scott as terrible as probably most people. But what does it tell us that allegedly 70% of whites can imagine a situation when an officer strikes a person and most blacks and Hispanics cannot? Why then did they give them batons? Certainly not to club just everybody but to never use it? It would be the lesser weapon if attacked. The -maybe ugly- question pops up: do (most, many) people of color think like that because they feel like the police is their enemy or they feel themselves as enemies of the police?
3
Not sure i understand your comment, but if you are suggesting that people of color set themselves up as enemies of the police and that is why police treat them like dirt, then this is just idiotic. There is not chicken vs. egg, which came first debate here. The police target minorities and treat everyone like dirt, even caucasian males like me.
5
One wonders why you're not asking why it is that we have so many right-wing groups, predominantly composed of white guys, piling up guns on the grounds that they're going to need them to fight back against the cops and the government.
"an admittedly tough job that few of us would sign up to do" are you talking about nyt columnist and other television pundits. Because most America would give there left foot for a civil service job. try reading a newspaper or looking out a window of your chauffeur driven car. America is struggling to put food on the table.
1
A front page article in yesterday Washington Post reveals that “Among the officers charged since 2005 for fatal shootings, more than three-quarters were white. Two-thirds of their victims were minorities, all but two of them black.” The vast majority of fatal police shooting victims white police officers are white. (A USA Today study conducted after the Michael Brown shooting revealed that on average white police officers each year kill about 400 people, including about 96 African Americans. This means that about 24 percent of those killed by white police officers are black, but it also means that about 76 percent of people killed by white police officers are not black.) So, the Washington Post study show white cops who shoot black suspects are much more likely to be charged than white cops who shoot white suspects. The Post article contradicts the assertion that “black lives don’t matter.” When it comes to prosecuting officers involved in fatal police shootings, it appears black lives matter more than white lives.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2015/04/11/thousands-dead...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2015/04/11/thousands-dead...
1
But on a per capita basis, killling of black citizens by white police officers is not even remotely close. There is about a 3x death multiplier if you are black. And your statistics are questionable...
Here is a different view of the numbers:
https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/Le-MULpw-brnpnF5fyZqEfjfuhM=/cdn0.vox-c...
Here is a different view of the numbers:
https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/Le-MULpw-brnpnF5fyZqEfjfuhM=/cdn0.vox-c...
1
Your math works in a country where the population is 50% white and 50% black, AND where all the cops who shoot suspects are charged.
But, since the overwhelming majority of shootings do not result in a charge, and then most of the charged cases are dismissed, your calculations are nothing but a rationalization.
Nice try.
But, since the overwhelming majority of shootings do not result in a charge, and then most of the charged cases are dismissed, your calculations are nothing but a rationalization.
Nice try.
1
Whenever someone--and it seems most frequently to be a person of color--is killed or physically abused by police officers for a minor offense, whether that offense is genuine or an instance of racial profiling, and the officer is either exonerated or given a small punishment. it only empowers the authorities to continue that reckless, often deadly behavior. We have a justice system for a reason. We have never had a legal structure in "modern" America that appoints individual police officers as instantaneous judge, jury, and retaliator for society. And yet as this occurs with more and more frequency, it clearly has emboldened the police to take on this role, without much fear of serious professional or legal ramification--unless those actions happen to be witnessed by civilians or videotaped. Even that check on the unmitigated power of public authorities is in the process of being eroded, as the recent proposed law in Texas against videotaping police activities moves forward. We must ask, is there anyone in a position to protect the system of justice the people of this country expect and deserve. Now and in the future is there or will there be anyway to protect the most frequent victims of violence and brutality by individual authorities? Who is it that we can trust to protect us from our protectors?
4
I just listened to a tape of this former police officer turned murderer laughing while discussing his adrenaline rush after shooting Mr. Scott. From the Guardian:
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/12/walter-scott-shooting-off...
This was, of course, before the video came out, showing him calmly putting eight bullets in Mr. Scott's back, handcuffing him and then calmly planting evidence to support his lie that Mr. Scott "took his taser". I guess that adrenaline rush kicked in when he thought he had gotten away with this cold blooded murder.
I would hope that he is not laughing now.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/12/walter-scott-shooting-off...
This was, of course, before the video came out, showing him calmly putting eight bullets in Mr. Scott's back, handcuffing him and then calmly planting evidence to support his lie that Mr. Scott "took his taser". I guess that adrenaline rush kicked in when he thought he had gotten away with this cold blooded murder.
I would hope that he is not laughing now.
8
I notice a disturbing consistency in how African American victims of police violence are always framed in media discussions. As mentioned here, their entire lives go on trial, regardless of how excessive, or fatally violent the actions of the police officer were.
I cannot think of a similar equivalent when it comes to Caucasian suspects. Given, they are rarely, if ever, killed by police officers. Caucasian suspects are routinely described as "troubled" or "loners" or given some benefit of the doubt in social discourse. Equally damning, white criminals are never said to stand for the behaviors of their entire ethnicity. If this isn't privilege in action, I don't know what is.
Running from the police should not be a death sentence. Neither should walking in your neighborhood. Or selling loose cigarettes. Or driving your vehicle.
Black lives matter. We should prove that once and for all by prosecuting brutal cops, and either jailing them or removing them from duty. Enough "bad apples" and "isolated incidents". Enough excuses.
I cannot think of a similar equivalent when it comes to Caucasian suspects. Given, they are rarely, if ever, killed by police officers. Caucasian suspects are routinely described as "troubled" or "loners" or given some benefit of the doubt in social discourse. Equally damning, white criminals are never said to stand for the behaviors of their entire ethnicity. If this isn't privilege in action, I don't know what is.
Running from the police should not be a death sentence. Neither should walking in your neighborhood. Or selling loose cigarettes. Or driving your vehicle.
Black lives matter. We should prove that once and for all by prosecuting brutal cops, and either jailing them or removing them from duty. Enough "bad apples" and "isolated incidents". Enough excuses.
9
Are police blood tested after incidents like this? What else is in their system besides testosterone and adrenaline that might interfere with their ability to make quick, good decisions? Do we hold them to the same standards we expect of drivers, pilots, troops etc? As police "armour up" their bodies and psyches to protect themselves in their line of work, do we know they are not taking supplements, amphetamine-laced energy boosters, or steroids that create anger management issues? Intimidation, brute force and physical restraint seem to be the go to strategies for many cops, rather than a last resort. And I think it is a real sickness.
12
Mr. Blow hits the nail on the head in this article with what I consider to be its central point – there is no equivalence between taking a human life and an argument that Walter Scott would be alive had he simple cooperated. This may be true, that he would have lived had he not run, but it is not a reasonably equivalent scenario. Our country is losing so much when death is explained away by bad behavior. We have become nonchalant with our forgiving of police brutality.
14
I have spoken about the advisability of complying with police orders myself, and I hope it was not taken as any kind of excuse for the officer's outrageous misbehavior in any of these cases. There is no equivalence between the two actions and none can be made.
However, I will continue to claim that it is better personal policy to cooperate with the arresting officer and be alive to protest his actions, than to resist/run and have those at your funeral protesting.
However, I will continue to claim that it is better personal policy to cooperate with the arresting officer and be alive to protest his actions, than to resist/run and have those at your funeral protesting.
I think that in our handgun worshiping society, the Dirty Harry "Make my day" syndrome has a powerful affect. Why carry around a beautiful 9 mm semi if you don't get a chance to use it?
8
There is an epidemic in law enforcement in this country that requires extensive training and redirection as well as significant turnover and a reevaluation of hiring practices. There is no debate in the Walter Scott case and the officer was rightfully charged with murder. This is not about race because we are all one race, the human race. It was most definitely about the color of Walter Scott's skin.
3
I had the same thoughts when watching CNN discuss this, two well known commentator-hosts who like to think they are quite liberal were groping for a justification for the shooting by asking why Walter Scott was running away from a scary white guy with a gun, a big guy that's supposed to be able to handle a little excitemant and adventure on the job without emptying his clip into an unarmed fleeing man's back. These two news stars are so desensitized to the violent reality of authority in our country that they had a hard time accepting the ugly truth presented to them by the video.
You've captured the crux of the situation clearly, death is not the punishment for petty disobedience, certainly not in a country that preaches free and fair democracy to the rest of the world. Servile obedience and summary execution are the currency of authoritarian states. Any moves by legislators to ban citizens recording government employee's encounters with the the public at large are more than worrying. These incidents in our country disproportionately affect the African American community but shooting anyone like this, including a fleeing white guy would be unacceptable. The world owes Steve Jobs a lot for unleashing the smartphone into the public's hands, it may help nurture American and global free and fair democracy as we move forward into the 21st century, if subsequent courts and juries get these cases right.
You've captured the crux of the situation clearly, death is not the punishment for petty disobedience, certainly not in a country that preaches free and fair democracy to the rest of the world. Servile obedience and summary execution are the currency of authoritarian states. Any moves by legislators to ban citizens recording government employee's encounters with the the public at large are more than worrying. These incidents in our country disproportionately affect the African American community but shooting anyone like this, including a fleeing white guy would be unacceptable. The world owes Steve Jobs a lot for unleashing the smartphone into the public's hands, it may help nurture American and global free and fair democracy as we move forward into the 21st century, if subsequent courts and juries get these cases right.
85
Walter Scott isn't to blame for his own death. But isn't it instructive for the rest of us, including those of us who may have a hot-headed son or brother who could benefit from our counsel, to review the circumstances of the tragic event and try to learn from it?
It is hardly "wandering in the weeds" for me to talk about the shooting with my teen-age son and make the point that, if for whatever reason good or ill he finds himself confronted by a police officer, take prudent steps to diffuse the situation and whatever you do, don't run. Even if you don't get shot that will only assure that the charges become much more difficult to deal with.
It is hardly "wandering in the weeds" for me to talk about the shooting with my teen-age son and make the point that, if for whatever reason good or ill he finds himself confronted by a police officer, take prudent steps to diffuse the situation and whatever you do, don't run. Even if you don't get shot that will only assure that the charges become much more difficult to deal with.
3
When faced with this sort of injustice, there are two layers of response. One is the individual level--like you, I'm thinking about what to tell my son so this doesn't happen to him. Don't ever, ever, ever give a police officer an excuse. Assume they are armed and paranoid, and your job is to make them feel safe so they won't kill you. On the other hand, that doesn't address the massive structural problem--that individuals are forced to try to live with a structure of heavily armed police, many of whom see the citizens they are supposed to protect as the "enemy" worthy of a death sentence without a trial (not that there aren't plenty of fantastic cops out there, but unfortunately, they don't come with labels, so we can't tell which is which, and the structural problem clearly remains in spite of good individuals). We need to keep our kids safe within the system, but somehow fight the system at the same time.
Unfortunately, police officers encounter lawbreakers on a regular basis. Unfortunately, some resist arrest. Some flee.
-------------------------------------------------
I agree with you that Scott did not deserve to die for just running away from the cop for fear that he would be apprehended and sent back to jail for failing to show up at court hearings on child support payments he was not making.
I wonder if anyone has spoken with the passenger in the car that Scott was driving when he was pulled over.
Also, the gap in the video of events as they unfolded is troubling, much like the gap in Nixon tapes. When Santana's video begins to roll, we see the officer with gun drawn and the taser gun falling to ground. If Scott had apprehended the Taser gun and tried to attack the cop, then the cop was within his right to do what he did. As I had stated in one of my previous posts, Scott may well go and harm his ex-spouse and children who threaten to deprive him of his liberty and who require support payments from him.
If Scott was not killed, then he would be in jail and we would be heart-aching about how too many blacks are incarcerated.
We surely want to have our cake and eat it too.
-------------------------------------------------
I agree with you that Scott did not deserve to die for just running away from the cop for fear that he would be apprehended and sent back to jail for failing to show up at court hearings on child support payments he was not making.
I wonder if anyone has spoken with the passenger in the car that Scott was driving when he was pulled over.
Also, the gap in the video of events as they unfolded is troubling, much like the gap in Nixon tapes. When Santana's video begins to roll, we see the officer with gun drawn and the taser gun falling to ground. If Scott had apprehended the Taser gun and tried to attack the cop, then the cop was within his right to do what he did. As I had stated in one of my previous posts, Scott may well go and harm his ex-spouse and children who threaten to deprive him of his liberty and who require support payments from him.
If Scott was not killed, then he would be in jail and we would be heart-aching about how too many blacks are incarcerated.
We surely want to have our cake and eat it too.
You surely do want to eat your cake. "Has anyone spoken with the passenger"!? Ha! I'm pretty sure he'll be testifying at the trial and will be allowed to speak with no-one until that time. Get a grip, open your eyes and let go of your prejudice.
1
your comment leaves me breathless - you compare discussions concerning the obvious bias in our penal system to Scott getting shot in the back 6 times? 6 times!! what planet do you live on?
The advantage any of us civilians have over officers is that we KNOW they are armed. They always are.
The police, however cannot have the same information about any civilian they encounter.
The common thread in all of these ois incidents, IS resistance, sudden moves, fleeing, or outright assault on an officer.
Such behavior gives the officer an adrenaline shot, anxiety and a necessity to respond instantly.
And to take complete control, whether it's through assault by the officer, tasing, shooting or all of these options.
We expect officers to be more in control of their responses, their own weapons and adrenaline, rightly.
But the risks involved either way, aren't worth making the sudden moves that all of these dead man made.
The police, however cannot have the same information about any civilian they encounter.
The common thread in all of these ois incidents, IS resistance, sudden moves, fleeing, or outright assault on an officer.
Such behavior gives the officer an adrenaline shot, anxiety and a necessity to respond instantly.
And to take complete control, whether it's through assault by the officer, tasing, shooting or all of these options.
We expect officers to be more in control of their responses, their own weapons and adrenaline, rightly.
But the risks involved either way, aren't worth making the sudden moves that all of these dead man made.
While I absolutely agree that the policeman who shot Mr. Scott should be held fully accountable for his actions, please explain why Mr. Scott's actions from the time he stopped for the policeman and the time that he lay dying on the ground are not relevant to the case.
As Mr. Blow found out in the little matter of the Furgeson case, the interactions between the policeman and the victim ARE important to the case.
And as Mr. Blow now knows, the furor over Mr. Brown's death was based on lies and deceptions.
Does Mr. Blow believe that allowing lies and deceptions to grow on fertile ground is the proper way for obtaining justice?
Or does he believe that only when the accused is a white policeman?
I'm sorry, Mr. Blow, your body of work shows that you are far more willing to play the "victim card" than you are to in seeking out all of the relevant facts before you make you leaps to your conclusions.
As Mr. Blow found out in the little matter of the Furgeson case, the interactions between the policeman and the victim ARE important to the case.
And as Mr. Blow now knows, the furor over Mr. Brown's death was based on lies and deceptions.
Does Mr. Blow believe that allowing lies and deceptions to grow on fertile ground is the proper way for obtaining justice?
Or does he believe that only when the accused is a white policeman?
I'm sorry, Mr. Blow, your body of work shows that you are far more willing to play the "victim card" than you are to in seeking out all of the relevant facts before you make you leaps to your conclusions.
4
Seems you let your bias out for all to see.
3
well gee, I am sorry that it sure seems like your comment shows your willingness to play the bigot card. how you can compare Ferguson to this video is beyond comprehension. Doesn't matter what Scott did, he didn't deserve to get shot in the back like that - simply disgusting.
1
Was the action of the officer premeditated? That's likely to be a major question for many reasons, including what the ultimate charge might be (unlikely, first-degree murder). In contrast, Mr. Scott was guilty only of being unable to control his fear, a fear probably based on the numerous recent cases of police brutality against citizens of color. I am white, so I cannot directly experience that fear, but I can assuredly understand it, as someone who to some extent fears any interaction with police in my city (after the senseless and wholly unnecessary killing of James Boyd, a white homeless man).
So in that light, my mind tells me, "you get what you pay for." As is the case for teachers in our society, cops are generally underpaid, making it unlikely that police forces will be attracting the best candidates for the job. Unless we, in both instances --- teachers and cops --- commit to better job compensation, it's unlikely that we'll attract individuals who are sufficiently self-reflective to rapidly weigh the pros and cons in a stressful situation and make better decisions.
So in that light, my mind tells me, "you get what you pay for." As is the case for teachers in our society, cops are generally underpaid, making it unlikely that police forces will be attracting the best candidates for the job. Unless we, in both instances --- teachers and cops --- commit to better job compensation, it's unlikely that we'll attract individuals who are sufficiently self-reflective to rapidly weigh the pros and cons in a stressful situation and make better decisions.
1
It does not matter why Walter Scott ran away the officer had no valid reason to kill him.
I think his fear of losing what he had built in his personal life and to get himself out of the debt he was in overwhelmed him. We live in a very Spartan society made more so since 1980 and in that society any kind of human weakness or failure is exploited or punished harshly by anyone who sees it and is able to do so. The "able person" if it is not ones employer most often turns out to be local government in the form of Police for the poor of America. Thank you saint reagan.
"Being entrusted with power does not shield imprudent use of power."
This may seem pedantic but it has larger meaning beyond this discussion. No public servant in a Democratic Republic has or is entrusted with "power". Power is a thing that monarch's, dictators and autocrats wield.
In a Democratic Republic the People endow public servants with the Authority to do the job and that Authority implies nothing else.
I think his fear of losing what he had built in his personal life and to get himself out of the debt he was in overwhelmed him. We live in a very Spartan society made more so since 1980 and in that society any kind of human weakness or failure is exploited or punished harshly by anyone who sees it and is able to do so. The "able person" if it is not ones employer most often turns out to be local government in the form of Police for the poor of America. Thank you saint reagan.
"Being entrusted with power does not shield imprudent use of power."
This may seem pedantic but it has larger meaning beyond this discussion. No public servant in a Democratic Republic has or is entrusted with "power". Power is a thing that monarch's, dictators and autocrats wield.
In a Democratic Republic the People endow public servants with the Authority to do the job and that Authority implies nothing else.
1
Running away from the police officers is a crime because it equals resisting the arrest.
It’s outrageous that the NYT columnist encourages the criminal activity.
Why would you run away from the police officers if you are not guilty of anything?
If our police force is not to be trusted, let’s disband it!
Is that what Mr. Blow is promoting in this column?
If running away from the police officers is not a crime, then every American will start doing it because they have nothing to lose by doing it...
Mr. Blow, unreasonable social behavior should be on trial because it puts all of us at risk.
Mr. Blow, you should be first to teach the African-American youth to trust the police officers and to help the teenagers understand the police is there to serve and protect them, not to harm them...
If the police force is not there to harm us, there is no reason to run away from them...
It’s outrageous that the NYT columnist encourages the criminal activity.
Why would you run away from the police officers if you are not guilty of anything?
If our police force is not to be trusted, let’s disband it!
Is that what Mr. Blow is promoting in this column?
If running away from the police officers is not a crime, then every American will start doing it because they have nothing to lose by doing it...
Mr. Blow, unreasonable social behavior should be on trial because it puts all of us at risk.
Mr. Blow, you should be first to teach the African-American youth to trust the police officers and to help the teenagers understand the police is there to serve and protect them, not to harm them...
If the police force is not there to harm us, there is no reason to run away from them...
1
Get a grip and think before you speak. If this video didn't exist, we'd have another homicidal maniac getting off scot-free. Is that what you want!? We need to discuss what level of criminality on the part of our police YOU'RE willing to tolerate!
4
encourages criminal activity? Did you read the article? The very clearly stated point was that Scott did not deserve to be shot in the back for this criminal behavior.
If you feel that any criminal behavior is worthy of being shot in the back, remember it next time you speed, or park illegally or whatever.
If you feel that any criminal behavior is worthy of being shot in the back, remember it next time you speed, or park illegally or whatever.
In our legal system, we also recognize that the punishment must be commensurate with the crime. We do not sentence people to jail for speeding 5 miles over the speed limit...and we do not give people the death penalty for resisting arrest. Our legal system is very clear that an officer's weapons are to protect the officer's safety, and the public's safety. Neither were at issue here...So the officer should not have shot Walter Scott.
2
"For me, there is only one issue in the Walter Scott case: he is dead..."
Not quite as your concern is based on race. NO killings of nonblacks has moved you to write a column.
Not quite as your concern is based on race. NO killings of nonblacks has moved you to write a column.
4
Look at the data - it is a very rare circumstance where a white is shot by police.
What really worries me is that 69% of whites feel that there's no problem. (It seems necessary to point out that I'm white.)
I commend the bystander, Feidin Santana, for his courage to film the police shooting. He said that the officer didn't fire any warning shots nor give a verbal warning prior to shooting Walter Scott in the back nine times. Santana is quoted as saying that he heard Scott being tasered on the ground by Officer Slager and that he believed that Scott was trying to get away from the taser.
The real question is what would have happened in a court of law if it was solely the testimony of the eye witness, Dominican Republic immigrant Feidin Santana, versus the sworn testimony of Officer Slager without the incriminating video account of what really transpired? Would the lawyers diminish his testimony so the jury would dismiss his account and rely solely on the officer? Mr. Santana said, and the video supports, that Officer Slager planted the taser by Mr. Scott's body after he was dead. The video clearly shows that there wasn't any bodily threat to Officer Scott when he chose to shoot Scott in the back.
The lessons learned from this single incident are from the wise choices of Mr. Santana who decided to wait before releasing the video until he learned that the officer lied and attempted to cover-up the events. We also learned as citizens and potential witnesses to police brutality that it is best to hand over the video to the witness's family rather than trust the police. Finally, we learned that all it takes is one brave citizen to film a potential criminal police misuse of force.
The real question is what would have happened in a court of law if it was solely the testimony of the eye witness, Dominican Republic immigrant Feidin Santana, versus the sworn testimony of Officer Slager without the incriminating video account of what really transpired? Would the lawyers diminish his testimony so the jury would dismiss his account and rely solely on the officer? Mr. Santana said, and the video supports, that Officer Slager planted the taser by Mr. Scott's body after he was dead. The video clearly shows that there wasn't any bodily threat to Officer Scott when he chose to shoot Scott in the back.
The lessons learned from this single incident are from the wise choices of Mr. Santana who decided to wait before releasing the video until he learned that the officer lied and attempted to cover-up the events. We also learned as citizens and potential witnesses to police brutality that it is best to hand over the video to the witness's family rather than trust the police. Finally, we learned that all it takes is one brave citizen to film a potential criminal police misuse of force.
5
RIGHT VS WRONG NOT RIGHT VS LEFT Charles Blow's phrase stood out in his excellent article about the gunning down of Walter Scott, shot 8 times in the back by a police officer whose actions were captured on video. The horror of the crime is emblematic of the psychological violence that is Balkanizing our society. In my opinion, there is a race to the bottom to see who can be more disrespectful of the Office of President of the United States and, additionally, the person of Barack Obama. The violence and crushing pressure with which the unrelenting opposition to his performance of his duties of office are, frankly, a stain upon the body politic and a dishonor and disgrace to what we deign to describe as a government of laws. As a child of the 60s, I am devastated by the coarsening of US culture and the reversion to primitive, disrespectful actions as a substitute for enlightened political discourse. One point on which I disagree with Charles Blow is his criticism of the the statement, If he only had not run away. Walter Scott saw running away as his only chance of survival. What assurance do we have that he would have been treated any better if he had stayed in the car? There have been videos of police officers shooting into cars when passengers did not immediately obey orders. Law officers behave as if they are confronting terrorists who threaten homeland security. There needs to be much stronger training in using the least amount of force necessary at all times.
2
We hear often about the benefits of community policing. Yet police unions across the country have been successful in eliminating residency requirements for officers. Requiring police officers to live with the tax payers that pay their salaries would be the essence of community policing. And it could reduce the "Us v. Them" mentality of white officers driving from their suburban homes to work in cities with a high ratio of minority residents. It would be interesting to find out how many of the police officers in Ferguson or North Charleston actually live in those cities.
4
I, for one, am tired of hearing the old trope, "Officers put their lives on the line every day. It's a tough, thankless job." Let us not forget that they sign up for this, and that many, many more civilians are executed by the police than are police executed by civilians. It's high time we hold officers to the standard to which they took on oath: to protect and serve. They are our employees, not the other way around. We are not an occupied country, yet it has felt that way for the last decade..., and it's getting worse.
126
It is not "thankless" they get thanked daily and paid very well to boot. its may not be wealthy money in most cases but it is always enough to live decently and you get decent insurance coverage too.
1
Mr. Blow:
Both positions that you describe are simultaneously true:
(1) Officer Slager had absolutely no valid cause to shoot Mr. Scott, and
(2) Mr. Scott should not have been running away from a police officer.
It does no good to take a hard line on the police behavior and then go all squishy on civilian behavior.
I would think, that as a respected public figure, you would want to deliver a message that is actually going to do people some good. And that message is "Listen carefully to the police officer, follow his or her directions, and if you are arrested, let your lawyer do your arguing for you." None of us can run away from officers. None of us can become belligerent with officers and refuse to submit to arrest. None of us can assault officers. We have to have some basic shared expectations about rules and responsibilities in our society.
Do police jobs attract a certain number of vicious thugs? Of course they do. Some percentage of police officers are going to be too eager to use force. Some other percentage of police officers are going to demonstrate poor judgement at times, often as a result of working too much overtime in order to makes ends meet. Let's demand that police forces have the right officers on the job, and that these officers are properly prepared to do their jobs. Let's demand that officers are held accountable. But let's not muddy the waters by making excuses for poor civilian behavior.
Both positions that you describe are simultaneously true:
(1) Officer Slager had absolutely no valid cause to shoot Mr. Scott, and
(2) Mr. Scott should not have been running away from a police officer.
It does no good to take a hard line on the police behavior and then go all squishy on civilian behavior.
I would think, that as a respected public figure, you would want to deliver a message that is actually going to do people some good. And that message is "Listen carefully to the police officer, follow his or her directions, and if you are arrested, let your lawyer do your arguing for you." None of us can run away from officers. None of us can become belligerent with officers and refuse to submit to arrest. None of us can assault officers. We have to have some basic shared expectations about rules and responsibilities in our society.
Do police jobs attract a certain number of vicious thugs? Of course they do. Some percentage of police officers are going to be too eager to use force. Some other percentage of police officers are going to demonstrate poor judgement at times, often as a result of working too much overtime in order to makes ends meet. Let's demand that police forces have the right officers on the job, and that these officers are properly prepared to do their jobs. Let's demand that officers are held accountable. But let's not muddy the waters by making excuses for poor civilian behavior.
3
This post articulates a concern I have: Viewing the police as the problem. Frankly, I don't wish to live in a society with that prevailing view.
Over the last 60 years America has discussed wealth and inequality in terms of education, social theory, and law. Words like ghetto, criminality, and bussing have only helped to marginalize the poor and many minorities. Put more succinctly: inequality in America has increased, not decreased.
Psychologists and social theorists have postulated the need for social and economic change in a serious fashion since the 1950's. And police departments have chaffed at this intrusion into their realm. Psychologists and social workers have never been welcome at the station house. These newer age professionals were more welcome at the fringes--in probation departments and social welfare departments, if at all. The police simply didn't see alternative views to the baton as helpful.
But, the police, psychologists, and welfare workers have all failed. My proof: the proliferation of gangs. And gangs see the police as the problem. I don't wish that to become a general cultural bias.
That said, I agree with Mr Blow. Big data might well bring to police departments the professional expertise they have shunned for 60 years, and the police need to clean up their act, but I think they are not the problem. They need help, not marginalization.
Over the last 60 years America has discussed wealth and inequality in terms of education, social theory, and law. Words like ghetto, criminality, and bussing have only helped to marginalize the poor and many minorities. Put more succinctly: inequality in America has increased, not decreased.
Psychologists and social theorists have postulated the need for social and economic change in a serious fashion since the 1950's. And police departments have chaffed at this intrusion into their realm. Psychologists and social workers have never been welcome at the station house. These newer age professionals were more welcome at the fringes--in probation departments and social welfare departments, if at all. The police simply didn't see alternative views to the baton as helpful.
But, the police, psychologists, and welfare workers have all failed. My proof: the proliferation of gangs. And gangs see the police as the problem. I don't wish that to become a general cultural bias.
That said, I agree with Mr Blow. Big data might well bring to police departments the professional expertise they have shunned for 60 years, and the police need to clean up their act, but I think they are not the problem. They need help, not marginalization.
The police officers in these cases are acting like an occupying force in these neighborhoods. Having worked as an attorney with police officers, I find many to have the attitude "It's us against them." They view minorities negatively and with a jaundiced perception but white people are not safe in such a system, either.
The cops are not any teenager's friends. They treat everyone as enemies rather than protecting and serving. They manipulate evidence or do not disclose it's existence.
These attitudes have only gotten worse with the proliferation of guns in the hands of everyone who can afford to buy one. The cops feel they need to be better armed than most citizens. Everyone is viewed as possibly having a gun.
Anyone with any sense would run from an officer, especially persons of color. A minor encounter is liable to result in death. In the case of Mr. Scott, he ran, but that does not excuse being shot in the back, no matter what police apologists would have you believe.
I believe that a lot of this started when George Zimmerman got away with murdering Trayvon Martin. That case gave a license to kill to any officer that could make up a good story after the victim is dead. The victim is a person of color and dead, so he/she must have done something that warranted getting shot. The cops will just make it up after the fact and let Fox news do the rest.
The cops are not any teenager's friends. They treat everyone as enemies rather than protecting and serving. They manipulate evidence or do not disclose it's existence.
These attitudes have only gotten worse with the proliferation of guns in the hands of everyone who can afford to buy one. The cops feel they need to be better armed than most citizens. Everyone is viewed as possibly having a gun.
Anyone with any sense would run from an officer, especially persons of color. A minor encounter is liable to result in death. In the case of Mr. Scott, he ran, but that does not excuse being shot in the back, no matter what police apologists would have you believe.
I believe that a lot of this started when George Zimmerman got away with murdering Trayvon Martin. That case gave a license to kill to any officer that could make up a good story after the victim is dead. The victim is a person of color and dead, so he/she must have done something that warranted getting shot. The cops will just make it up after the fact and let Fox news do the rest.
8
Much of what this commenter said makes sense. The reason that some run from the police is that they fear dying in police custody. We have enough knowledge about police doing brutal things (Chicago torture). It may be a very small percentage of police who act illegally and wantonly. That is enough to strike fear into the hearts of many citizens who are poor and have little access to the law. It is easier for a poor man to get a gun than a lawyer. This escalates the us-them mentality because police do face real threats of gun violence. However, it does not good to claim that those who don't resist or run will be fine. We know of instances where the police will beat people who are handcuffed and then accuse them of resisting arrest because of involuntary movements.
If police don't want an us-them dynamic, then they must turn against officers they know violate police procedure rather than reflexively protecting them. It is the unwritten code of police to protect one another at all costs which is a danger to democracy. Police can't be held to a lower standard for following the law than the populous they supposedly serve.
If police don't want an us-them dynamic, then they must turn against officers they know violate police procedure rather than reflexively protecting them. It is the unwritten code of police to protect one another at all costs which is a danger to democracy. Police can't be held to a lower standard for following the law than the populous they supposedly serve.
1
I've spared myself of watching the pundits on television dissect the recent shooting of Mr. Scott. It doesn't take a pundit to realize that there is something terribly wrong going on here. It seems that almost every week there is some kind of shooting going on somewhere, and almost invariably it involves the death of a person of color, and often that person is unarmed. The frequency of these re-occurring events demands not only questioning, but introspection when asking of ourselves; "What has our society come to?"
and is it too late to change?
and is it too late to change?
2
if Scott had been white, I would still want to know why he ran away. That doesn't make me a racist and it doesn't imply that I think Scott somehow deserved to be shot. It only means that I want to understand how something like this could happen.
5
The points made by Mr. Blow are good, but I think racism is only part of the general problem here, although it certainly looks like that in the case of the murder of Mr. Walter Scott in North Charleston, S.C., last week.
The other part has to do with guns. The prevalence of guns among criminals is very high. Access to guns in the US is universal because of the activities of the NRA, and when access is high, then access to criminals is high.
Because access to guns is high, the police are reasonable anxious about being shot in every encounter with civilians. Racism adds tension to the situation, but it is the gun factor that makes police jumpy in the first place.
If we want to deal with this problem reasonably, we need to do away with the ready availability of guns in this country.
The other part has to do with guns. The prevalence of guns among criminals is very high. Access to guns in the US is universal because of the activities of the NRA, and when access is high, then access to criminals is high.
Because access to guns is high, the police are reasonable anxious about being shot in every encounter with civilians. Racism adds tension to the situation, but it is the gun factor that makes police jumpy in the first place.
If we want to deal with this problem reasonably, we need to do away with the ready availability of guns in this country.
3
While I seldom agree with Mr. Blow, on this point his position is unassailable. If a police officer uses unjustified force against a suspect, the behavior of the suspect is by definition irrelevant. Once we have established that the police officer did not have a reasonable fear for his own life or some else's life when he used deadly force then any discussion of the suspect's behavior is irrelevant, a distraction, and offensive. As much as we want to and need to respect police officers, our respect must be predicated on reasonable limits to their powers. One of the bedrock principals of our justice systems is requirement that lawful responses to violations of the law must be commensurate with the offense. If we abandon or compromise this principal then none of us will be safe from the tyranny of a draconian system.
110
Well said, You should have been in Congress in the 80's when this trend was started or even after 9-11-01 to stop the Patriot Act which is one of the sources for this anti Citizen attitude of the Police.
They forget we are not their Subjects, they are our servants.
They forget we are not their Subjects, they are our servants.
1
Blaming the victim is a common trait in humans. By thinking that we have control over events we are less afraid even if this thinking defies reason. This mind set also reflects self-righteousness, and has already been pointed out, the fear of rule breakers by those with authoritarian leanings. ,
1
Cold Blooded Murder by an officer who objectifies people of color. He sees them as OBJECTS not human beings. The methods used are to cause fear pain and control totally disproportionate to the situation.
As a former forensic evaluator is is terrifying to observe the officer calculate moving the evidence immediately after murdering Walter Scott. Walter Scott was never a human being in the mind of this officer. And his sole thought is to protect himself now. This officer has a wife eight months pregnant. Juxtapose these facts. New life and ending life.
Our society has committed hundreds of years of prescriptive stereotyping of people of color, Jews, immigrants, minority religions, gay and lesbian and transexual people. They are less than human.
Therefore we can blame them and feel fine about how we keep them down. Now that these groups try to become equal we are seeing a rise in attempts by our power structures to return them to their rightful place, underneath the dominant group. It is horrible to watch. Horrible.
As a former forensic evaluator is is terrifying to observe the officer calculate moving the evidence immediately after murdering Walter Scott. Walter Scott was never a human being in the mind of this officer. And his sole thought is to protect himself now. This officer has a wife eight months pregnant. Juxtapose these facts. New life and ending life.
Our society has committed hundreds of years of prescriptive stereotyping of people of color, Jews, immigrants, minority religions, gay and lesbian and transexual people. They are less than human.
Therefore we can blame them and feel fine about how we keep them down. Now that these groups try to become equal we are seeing a rise in attempts by our power structures to return them to their rightful place, underneath the dominant group. It is horrible to watch. Horrible.
4
the quip we all are taught in order to illustrate the fallacy of false inductve reasoning is 'one swallow does not a summer make".That said, can there be any reasonable doubt that perhaps as a consequence of the "original American sin of slavery" we Americans , in our deepest subconscious mind, have dehumanized the African-American? Is it not self-evident after these serial killings of Black Men by white police officers that at the instant of decision some police do not see a fellow-human but an animal whose right to life life is not guaranteed by our social moral code. It would be equally false to conclude that this one police officer allows general conclusions about what any other policeman might have done. This is not a story about racist cops. Becuase these killings have become so common, it is a profoundly disturbing indictment of American culture. Because it is so common, an inductive conclusion about this dark side of American culture is warranted.
3
Thank you Charles Blow. The pen is mightier than the sword. Your fine thinking, enlightened compassion, balanced and fair minded views, and profound insight into complex issues is a national treasure. We are so very very fortunate to have you as a citizen and writer of our country.
Thank you sir.
Evan Shaw
Thank you sir.
Evan Shaw
5
To the folks that say that all (or most) police officers are bad or are champing at the bit to show their alpha status, I've had my life saved several times by police officers responding to a medical emergency on my part.
To be honest, in my suburban, low-crime town, I only think of them as people who are there to help in an emergency. I once had someone trying to break into my house at 4:30 AM and didn't think to call the police but rather turned on some lights and grabbed a bat.
The perpetrator left me alone and I started my day. Only later did I think I should have dialed 911 for help that wasn't a medical emergency.
To be honest, in my suburban, low-crime town, I only think of them as people who are there to help in an emergency. I once had someone trying to break into my house at 4:30 AM and didn't think to call the police but rather turned on some lights and grabbed a bat.
The perpetrator left me alone and I started my day. Only later did I think I should have dialed 911 for help that wasn't a medical emergency.
Walter Scott is not on trial, but to ignore the fact that people who engage in criminal behavior -- whether that involves getting into violent altercations on the street, fighting with police, engaging in socially aggressive behavior in public or simply engaging in fugitive/hot pursuit behaviors -- raises the level of risk for those who engage in them. For the tens of thousands of adult who engage in sports leagues and individual sports, sporting injuries and unexpected mistakes that lead to injuries and death, are an accepted risk of such activities.
Why do so many of our media voices seem to demand that criminals, and those who engage in altercations with police on the street, be able to engage in their high risk behavior without any expectations that there will be injuries and deaths due to poor training, mistakes, accidents and incompetence?
If you live the life of a criminal, and engage in confrontations/fugitive behaviors with police, you're not being "put on trial" when people see you as being responsible for bringing negative outcomes onto your head with your decisions.
Why do so many of our media voices seem to demand that criminals, and those who engage in altercations with police on the street, be able to engage in their high risk behavior without any expectations that there will be injuries and deaths due to poor training, mistakes, accidents and incompetence?
If you live the life of a criminal, and engage in confrontations/fugitive behaviors with police, you're not being "put on trial" when people see you as being responsible for bringing negative outcomes onto your head with your decisions.
3
So, have you ever broken the law? Ever driven above the speed limit? Ever gone through a red light? Ever 'guessed' on your taxes? Ever left a restaurant or business without paying for everything you should have? Really, never in your life? Because by your rational, had you been confronted and shot dead as a result, that would have been justified, in your mind. Get a grip on yourself before you judge others.
1
Walter Scott was NOT a criminal. He was stopped for having a broken tail-light.
2
You are absolutely correct, nobody should die simply because they ran away from police. Nobody should die because they resisted arrest. You are absolutely correct that it is in the police job description to chase after fleeing suspects and that killing should be a last resort. In the UK police don't even carry guns, and alas but for the 2nd ammendment, would that we could be so enlightened.
By the same token however, nobody should die crossing the street. Drivers have a license to drive not to kill. Yet... At a busy intersection it is only common sense to estimate the traffic flow before crossing the street. Responsible parents teach their children to "Look both ways."
So just as someone who cavalierly decides that they as a pedestrian has the right of way regardless of circumstances, so to the person who chooses to flee the cops. In neither case should they have died, in neither case does anybody just have a right to kill them, but truthfully, theirs was an act of monumental stupidity.
By the same token however, nobody should die crossing the street. Drivers have a license to drive not to kill. Yet... At a busy intersection it is only common sense to estimate the traffic flow before crossing the street. Responsible parents teach their children to "Look both ways."
So just as someone who cavalierly decides that they as a pedestrian has the right of way regardless of circumstances, so to the person who chooses to flee the cops. In neither case should they have died, in neither case does anybody just have a right to kill them, but truthfully, theirs was an act of monumental stupidity.
1
I am not curious about Slager, as the NY Times article seeming to try and humanize him today seems to think readers would be. The article tells me nothing about why he killed Scott. It tells me nothing about how Slager could stand over Scott as if Scott were not even a human being. "After eight shots, Michael Slager is scorned by fellow officers" , the NY Times headline reads. Those were not eight shots fired into the air to try to get a running person to stop. Those were eight shots fired towards someone's back after a traffic stop for a busted tail light.
I would like to see an article written with the goal of humanizing Scott. He was a human being . He was not dangerous to anyone. I think the officials down south might be dealing with this better than some of the pundits Blow is on TV with- better also perhaps than the headline writers at the NYTimes, who seem to imply that Scott is now "scorned" because of eight shots fired. Where is Michael Scott in that headline?
I would like to see an article written with the goal of humanizing Scott. He was a human being . He was not dangerous to anyone. I think the officials down south might be dealing with this better than some of the pundits Blow is on TV with- better also perhaps than the headline writers at the NYTimes, who seem to imply that Scott is now "scorned" because of eight shots fired. Where is Michael Scott in that headline?
2
Police shootings, particularly tragic ones, are often the result of a chain of events. Break any link in the chain, and the shooting/tragedy does not happen. Just like airline and automobile accidents.
There are always many links in the chain. Often it is a suspect living a life of crime (Garner, Brown), who is then stopped by the police, and resists arrest (Garner), attacks the police (Brown), or resists and flees (Scott). The last link in the chain is the split second decision by the officer.
Unquestionably, in the Scott case, the decision was horribly wrong and likely criminal. But that does not in any way erases Scotts responsibilities for all the other links in the chain.
People who don't commit crimes, don't associate with criminals, when stop by the police don't flee, don't resist, don't try to take an officer's gun, don't get shot.
I.e. the vast majority of the American people can not imagine themselves doing what Garner, Brown, Scott did. Ever.
There are always many links in the chain. Often it is a suspect living a life of crime (Garner, Brown), who is then stopped by the police, and resists arrest (Garner), attacks the police (Brown), or resists and flees (Scott). The last link in the chain is the split second decision by the officer.
Unquestionably, in the Scott case, the decision was horribly wrong and likely criminal. But that does not in any way erases Scotts responsibilities for all the other links in the chain.
People who don't commit crimes, don't associate with criminals, when stop by the police don't flee, don't resist, don't try to take an officer's gun, don't get shot.
I.e. the vast majority of the American people can not imagine themselves doing what Garner, Brown, Scott did. Ever.
5
The point of this column is that whatever wrong they did, it did not warrant a death sentence.
Your causal analysis misapprehends the concept of proximate cause, which is the law's way of sorting out the multitude of causes for an event into those that matter for assigning culpability and those that don't. In other words, there are an infinite number of things that caused the deaths of Brown, Garner, and Scott, but only some matter for determining who is responsible.
Legally speaking, proximate cause is determined by foreseeability: Was it foreseeable to a reasonable person that a given event would lead to the result in question? While it may be foreseeable that recidivism would lead to more encounters with the policy, it cannot be reasonable to conclude that those encounters would also lead to death. So, too, with flight. (Indeed, the Supreme Court has ruled that deadly force can only be used against a fleeing suspect if he poses an immediate threat to the officer or surrounding civilians.) Were things otherwise, then we have set the bar for appropriate use of deadly force appallingly low.
Legally speaking, proximate cause is determined by foreseeability: Was it foreseeable to a reasonable person that a given event would lead to the result in question? While it may be foreseeable that recidivism would lead to more encounters with the policy, it cannot be reasonable to conclude that those encounters would also lead to death. So, too, with flight. (Indeed, the Supreme Court has ruled that deadly force can only be used against a fleeing suspect if he poses an immediate threat to the officer or surrounding civilians.) Were things otherwise, then we have set the bar for appropriate use of deadly force appallingly low.
The most chilling part of the video is the calm with which the officer took aim and fired and then immediately moved to arrange the scene in order to support his version of the story. This suggests premeditated murder to me or something that the officer had practiced in many different circumstances and did by rote or training. That kind of dehumanized behavior is closer to a concentration camp guard than an American law enforcement officer.
5
The current culture for the acceptance of excessive police force is rooted in the "Dirty Harry," and "Death Wish" movies of the 70's, which reinforced the perception that the judicial system "allowed" criminals to "walk" based on legal technicalities and the victims were denied justice.
By and large, at least among Middle Class Whites, this perception still endures, despite our mass incarceration rates as evidence to the contrary
By and large, at least among Middle Class Whites, this perception still endures, despite our mass incarceration rates as evidence to the contrary
3
I really grow tired of the "if he just had obeyed orders, he would still be alive" lawn ordure folks. It is the police who are to be held to the higher standard, not the victim. Were it not for Godwin's Law, I would talk about all of this in a heavy German accent.
3
We cannot forever turn our attention away from these incidents without realizing we have a huge and ongoing problem that will not be addressed without genuine and meaningful reforms.
These must start with a complete examination of the recruitment process. While most police officers may act with restraint, clearly a significant minority do not. Both in recruiting the right people for the police and in the training they receive, we must ensure that all of our police officers have as a priority the need to defuse rather than escalate a confrontation if at all possible and that lethal force really must be a last (or preferably no) resort unless the officer's life is genuinely and manifestly threatened.
And we the public need to be far more skeptical of the testimony of police officers than we have been. We must not assume that all police officers are telling the truth and other contrary witnesses are lying.
Finally, we need to raise the bar on the shooting of unarmed citizens by police. Our police have shot and killed thousands of our (mostly black) citizens. Why is it that police in other advanced countries have not? That is a question to which we must find an answer and use it to change our ways.
These must start with a complete examination of the recruitment process. While most police officers may act with restraint, clearly a significant minority do not. Both in recruiting the right people for the police and in the training they receive, we must ensure that all of our police officers have as a priority the need to defuse rather than escalate a confrontation if at all possible and that lethal force really must be a last (or preferably no) resort unless the officer's life is genuinely and manifestly threatened.
And we the public need to be far more skeptical of the testimony of police officers than we have been. We must not assume that all police officers are telling the truth and other contrary witnesses are lying.
Finally, we need to raise the bar on the shooting of unarmed citizens by police. Our police have shot and killed thousands of our (mostly black) citizens. Why is it that police in other advanced countries have not? That is a question to which we must find an answer and use it to change our ways.
3
This whole event was unnecessary. Slager had the car. All he had to do was tow it and Scott would have eventually come to claim his car. There was also a passenger who could have provided information. A calm efficient and professional arrest could have occurred either later that day or sometime during the next day.This whole incident was handled in a way that defies logic.
3
Didn't the officer have Scott's license? If he ran, wouldn't the police know where to find him later? Did Scott present a violent threat by running AWAY? Do the police have to chase everyone? Haven't they rethought those high speed car chases because they are more dangerous to the public?
I don't expect the police to see these questions as anything but an attack. We train our police to be 'warriors' and the public is the enemy. We are dehumanize to such a degree that it become routine to shoot first. And then the police wonder why all of us are afraid of them. With the NRA sowing total distrust of authority and promoting the incompetence of law enforcement in order to sell more guns to the public. We have got to change our priorities.
I don't expect the police to see these questions as anything but an attack. We train our police to be 'warriors' and the public is the enemy. We are dehumanize to such a degree that it become routine to shoot first. And then the police wonder why all of us are afraid of them. With the NRA sowing total distrust of authority and promoting the incompetence of law enforcement in order to sell more guns to the public. We have got to change our priorities.
12
I wholeheartedly applaud your thoughts, Mr. Blow. You wrote what I am thinking in a most concise and articulate fashion. We all can only keep making our own small contributions to help humankind along on its long, slow and painful journey out of the nightmare of violence. We are so capable of doing better.
4
Mr. Scott is not on trial but he's not hero or angel, 18k in child support payments is nothing to be proud of, he's a deadbeat. However no one should be shot by an over zealous police officer. We need to put this in context, the cop was wrong and should be prosecuted, Scott is a lowlife in other areas of his life.
7
And you know all the details of Mr. Scott to call him a lowlife? Maybe he had medical bills or other problems that caused him to be behind in child support. I would add that perhaps there but for the Grace of God goes you, Ron...
1
If only one hadn't run... if only one had raised one's hands... if only one didn't argue with police officers... it's a vicious infinite regression of logic often meant to obfuscate issues so as not hold police officers accountable.
I would advise the lawyers representing Mr. Scott's family not to get lazy and assume that the existence of a video recording is sufficient. It helps their case. But there was a video too in the Eric Garner case. And that was New York. This is SC.
I would advise the lawyers representing Mr. Scott's family not to get lazy and assume that the existence of a video recording is sufficient. It helps their case. But there was a video too in the Eric Garner case. And that was New York. This is SC.
3
Had he not run, had he held his hands up and not disobeyed Officer Slager, Scott would be alive today. This is all simple logic, not a regression of logic.
No thanks for the contemptuous implication that South Carolina is inferior to New Yor.
No thanks for the contemptuous implication that South Carolina is inferior to New Yor.
Mr. Blow, while I respect your opinions, your basic response" to all these tragic events,is "arrest them but don't kill them." In all the recent events, the person who was killed,was not a saint and had run ins with he law at sometime in the past or present or confronted the police officer during the event. There is NO EXCUSE for the shooting of Scott, but running away was perhaps due to a fear he had that he would now be caught and charged for his past transgressions. But it is also true that the victims contributed contributed to their own unfortunate demise because of their actions. The actions by the police must of course be reviewed thoroughly and not just condoned but punished when appropriate. Mr. Blow, doesn't it bother you though, that if the black victims were totally "clean" and responsive to the police officer that there would be no need for these extended bitter discussions.
3
Policing American-style is too often based on the belief that the public is the enemy, especially the Black public. This is a rot in the roots of society. Such rot has ways of showing itself above ground, for example in the growth of denial of rights and liberties elsewhere--women's reproductive rights, voting rights, etc.
2
"Is there anything, under American jurisprudence and universal moral law, that justifies the taking of this man’s life?"
Nope. No matter who you are, when you shoot someone in the back, you are a coward and a murderer, and you have to answer to the law for it.
Nope. No matter who you are, when you shoot someone in the back, you are a coward and a murderer, and you have to answer to the law for it.
2
Walter Scott is dead. His funeral is over. He is not on trial.
However, if not for a video, taken by a man from the Dominican Republic, on the spur of the moment, on a street where Walter Scott was confronted by a police officer, and shot, and murdered --- the general public, Walter Scott's family, the North Charleston police officers, the world - would never have known why Walter Scott is dead.
If not for the video, in Walter Scott's death, he probably would be on trial of sorts. There would be talk of perhaps the police officer's "justification" - the running away, perhaps concoctions of a struggle, perhaps concoctions of the officer's life being at risk, the made up story of the taser being taken away from the officer.
Oh yes, Walter Scott's persona would certainly have been on trial - with judge and jury in the hands of Michael Slager, the murderer, the liar.
However, if not for a video, taken by a man from the Dominican Republic, on the spur of the moment, on a street where Walter Scott was confronted by a police officer, and shot, and murdered --- the general public, Walter Scott's family, the North Charleston police officers, the world - would never have known why Walter Scott is dead.
If not for the video, in Walter Scott's death, he probably would be on trial of sorts. There would be talk of perhaps the police officer's "justification" - the running away, perhaps concoctions of a struggle, perhaps concoctions of the officer's life being at risk, the made up story of the taser being taken away from the officer.
Oh yes, Walter Scott's persona would certainly have been on trial - with judge and jury in the hands of Michael Slager, the murderer, the liar.
4
I'm a retired white guy who has lived for almost all his life in small rural towns. I literally can't remember the last time I had a personal contact with a police officer. I had 3-4 speeding tickets when I was in my 20's .... and since then, I've pretty much tried to avoid cops.
I understand that my experience is "sheltered," probably even for whites, and certainly for blacks or hispanics, for whom "stop and frisk" is not uncommon. But the paranoia expressed in some of these comments surprises me.... and I wonder if watching the news and violent TV shows explains some of America's fear.
A lot of the attitudes expressed seem over the top to me!
I understand that my experience is "sheltered," probably even for whites, and certainly for blacks or hispanics, for whom "stop and frisk" is not uncommon. But the paranoia expressed in some of these comments surprises me.... and I wonder if watching the news and violent TV shows explains some of America's fear.
A lot of the attitudes expressed seem over the top to me!
2
“Seven of 10 whites polled, or 70 percent, said they can imagine a situation in which they would approve of a police officer striking a man. Most blacks and Hispanics did not agree.”
Is it Blow's position that officers shall not defend themselves when their lives are at stake, like Darren Wilson? It appears Blow answers this below:
"Unfortunately, police officers encounter lawbreakers on a regular basis. Unfortunately, some resist arrest. Some flee. These are simply occupational conditions of being an officer "
"Occupational conditions"???
We're talking about human lives here as well, Charles. How cold, calculating and callous of you. You need to work on your humanity before you preach to everyone else.
Is it Blow's position that officers shall not defend themselves when their lives are at stake, like Darren Wilson? It appears Blow answers this below:
"Unfortunately, police officers encounter lawbreakers on a regular basis. Unfortunately, some resist arrest. Some flee. These are simply occupational conditions of being an officer "
"Occupational conditions"???
We're talking about human lives here as well, Charles. How cold, calculating and callous of you. You need to work on your humanity before you preach to everyone else.
3
It should be clear to everyone now that any interaction with the enforcement arm of the State, no matter how minor, carries with it the very real possibility of a death sentence.
5
Much of the blame for attitudes about the police lies with the press. The front page story is about the alleged crime. How many times have we heard the story, "the police officer lied?" We hear it, but rarely, in prominent exonerations, such as today's editorial ("152 Innocents.") But how many stories follow up on police misconduct in day-to-day cases? My students recently represented a woman charged with DUI. The arresting officer alleged in strong words, that she smelled strongly of alcohol. Her blood test results: "No alcohol detected." This should be front-page news, too.
5
Sobriety checkpoint on Desert Inn Road, west of I-15. A Friday night at about 7:45pm. I'm Caucasian, 59 years old, driving my yellow FJ Cruiser, coming back from buying pan de sal and Spanish bread at a Filipino baker on the East Side. I have my Filipino wife take the insurance card and registration out of the glove box, just in case, and I take out my wallet. I am stopped. I had the young officer my documentation.
"Sir, have you been drinking tonight?"
"No, I haven't."
"Sir have you done any illegal drugs this evening?"
"No."
"Not yet, anyway. Right?"
Pause.
"Why would you even say something like that to me?"
All of a sudden I have four glaring cops in my face, some with their hands on their firearms. One of them shouts
"Do you have a PROBLEM, sir? Are you planning on RESISTING us?"
"Resisting you for what? All I asked was a simple question."
"RESPECT is a two-way street, SIR. If you refuse to RESPECT us, we need to take STEPS to ensure our SAFETY."
"Who disrespected who? This guy implied that once I get home I'm going to do drugs."
A captain strolls over, asks one of the cops what's going on, the motions for me to leave.
"Do you want to hear my side of the story, officer?"
"GET OUTTA HERE. Before something BAD happens."
Welcome to Las Vegas - you are now a suspect.
"Sir, have you been drinking tonight?"
"No, I haven't."
"Sir have you done any illegal drugs this evening?"
"No."
"Not yet, anyway. Right?"
Pause.
"Why would you even say something like that to me?"
All of a sudden I have four glaring cops in my face, some with their hands on their firearms. One of them shouts
"Do you have a PROBLEM, sir? Are you planning on RESISTING us?"
"Resisting you for what? All I asked was a simple question."
"RESPECT is a two-way street, SIR. If you refuse to RESPECT us, we need to take STEPS to ensure our SAFETY."
"Who disrespected who? This guy implied that once I get home I'm going to do drugs."
A captain strolls over, asks one of the cops what's going on, the motions for me to leave.
"Do you want to hear my side of the story, officer?"
"GET OUTTA HERE. Before something BAD happens."
Welcome to Las Vegas - you are now a suspect.
18
Although all of the points Mr. Blow makes are valid, he didn't ask he first question: If Mr. Scott had been a 50 year old white man driving a 2 year old (instead of 25 year old) Mercedes with a burnt out tail light bulb would he have been pulled over in the first place? "Driving while black" has been treated as a traffic offense in this country for way too long. As a white man, I'm absolutely amazed that 69% of whites answer "no" to the question: "Is the American justice system biased against black people?". My answer: "Of course it is" and it's long past time we change this!
9
An excellent column, Mr. Blow, except the fact does remain that if Mr. Scott had not run from the police, he probably wouldn't have been shot. But, it's truly unfortunate that he felt compelled to run because of outstanding warrants against him. Your statement:
>>The judicial system could have easily dealt with any misdeed Scott is accused of — failure to pay child support, failure to present proper documentation for a car he was driving<<
is not quite accurate. People of limited means, and especially people of color are routinely preyed upon by the judicial system for seemingly minor violations. His child support issue would probably have cost him his job as he would have been incarcerated until a "deal" could be worked out. Onerous additional fines for minor traffic violations quickly reach the point of no return, and result in loss of license……plus increased fines and penalty points.
Perhaps you and I don't consider Mr. Scott's legal issues a death sentence, but he may very well have, and it is heartbreakingly unfortunate that he felt compelled to run.
JimF from Sewell
>>The judicial system could have easily dealt with any misdeed Scott is accused of — failure to pay child support, failure to present proper documentation for a car he was driving<<
is not quite accurate. People of limited means, and especially people of color are routinely preyed upon by the judicial system for seemingly minor violations. His child support issue would probably have cost him his job as he would have been incarcerated until a "deal" could be worked out. Onerous additional fines for minor traffic violations quickly reach the point of no return, and result in loss of license……plus increased fines and penalty points.
Perhaps you and I don't consider Mr. Scott's legal issues a death sentence, but he may very well have, and it is heartbreakingly unfortunate that he felt compelled to run.
JimF from Sewell
1
Good points. Had Mr. Scott been jailed, he probably would have lost his job. Upon release he would have owed more money and had no means to pay it off.
2
When children play with matches (something their parents told them many times not to do), they don't "deserve" to be seriously injured or die, but those are possible outcomes to their playing with matches. It is common for children to play with matches, just as it is common for suspects to flee from police -- neither suspects nor children deserve to die for their mistake, yet they sometimes due, either because of the danger of fire, or because of the fact that there are some thugs and even murderers in police uniforms.
While working to protect children from fire, and working to protect all individuals, particularly black men, from the danger of thugs in police uniforms, we would be irresponsible if we still didn't caution children, "don't play with matches", and caution young black men, "don't run from the police."
While working to protect children from fire, and working to protect all individuals, particularly black men, from the danger of thugs in police uniforms, we would be irresponsible if we still didn't caution children, "don't play with matches", and caution young black men, "don't run from the police."
1
Ideas like this expect us to accept circumstances that are out of control, such as with a child with no experience to the larger world. We as citizens should not have to reduce our lives to a level which govern out of control children. That is simply reaching for the bottom of the barrel here as the metaphor implies what we pull out is theoretically in darkness, out of our control, Oakbranch. I want to live in a nation enlightened.
Probably a key point here (which is perhaps obvious) is that most white people have no fear of ever being arrested and thus cannot imagine being the target for the police.
Why was this even an escalation? Why do the police continue to target American citizens who have only one identifying, common characteristic: they are darker toned than other Americans?
The police are our servants, not our masters. Where are the civilian review boards, the courts, the juries, the imprisonments for our servants breaking laws and constitutional guarantees to life & liberty not to mention explicit guarantees of due process?
Why was this even an escalation? Why do the police continue to target American citizens who have only one identifying, common characteristic: they are darker toned than other Americans?
The police are our servants, not our masters. Where are the civilian review boards, the courts, the juries, the imprisonments for our servants breaking laws and constitutional guarantees to life & liberty not to mention explicit guarantees of due process?
3
"After eight shots in North Charleston, Michael Slager becomes an officer scorned." There follows, in the NY Times, an article quoting his mother and his childhood neighbors in a seeming attempt to humanize him. I learn nothing about what turned him into a killer.
I would like to see an article humanizing Michael Scott. What did he love? What did he like to joke about? He looks affable in his Coast Guard photo. In the video, there seems to be little recognition from Scott that he is standing over a human being.
I am not curious about Scott as a person or how he is now " scorned". I am curious about the system that led to this and to the killing of a man in the back. The eight shots fired were not random shots into the air to scare someone. They were eight shots fired into the back of a running human being.
I would like to see an article humanizing Michael Scott. What did he love? What did he like to joke about? He looks affable in his Coast Guard photo. In the video, there seems to be little recognition from Scott that he is standing over a human being.
I am not curious about Scott as a person or how he is now " scorned". I am curious about the system that led to this and to the killing of a man in the back. The eight shots fired were not random shots into the air to scare someone. They were eight shots fired into the back of a running human being.
2
I have seen two videos.
In one Mr. Scott runs out of his car and is chased by Officer Slater.
From the voices heard it seems like Officer Slater used his taser and
at the same time there was a physical altercation between the two men.
Then there is the second video where Mr. Scott is running away - some
say you can see taser wires attached to his body - and Officer Slater pulls
his gun and fires until Mr. Scott is on the ground.
At some point Officer Slater picks up an object by his feet and brings it
over to where Mr. Scott is and drops it.
Another Officer shows up - neither seemed overly concerned about Mr. Scott's
condition.
What are the rules for using your gun if you are a Police Officer ?
Why did Mr. Scott run - was it just the fear of being arrested with the
outstanding warrants or could it have been anything else ?
In one Mr. Scott runs out of his car and is chased by Officer Slater.
From the voices heard it seems like Officer Slater used his taser and
at the same time there was a physical altercation between the two men.
Then there is the second video where Mr. Scott is running away - some
say you can see taser wires attached to his body - and Officer Slater pulls
his gun and fires until Mr. Scott is on the ground.
At some point Officer Slater picks up an object by his feet and brings it
over to where Mr. Scott is and drops it.
Another Officer shows up - neither seemed overly concerned about Mr. Scott's
condition.
What are the rules for using your gun if you are a Police Officer ?
Why did Mr. Scott run - was it just the fear of being arrested with the
outstanding warrants or could it have been anything else ?
Mr. Blow states this accurately and eloquently. Walter Scott's flaws (particularly his failure to pay child support) are totally incongruous to his cold-blooded murder. It is actually heartening to see that Slager's own union has distanced itself from him. Let's not lose sight of the fact that while there is overt racism in law enforcement, many more police officers than not are repulsed by this and other abominations perpetrated by those masquerading behind badges. Slager is a law enforcement officer in title only - he is in fact nothing less than a murderer.
2
The real question is how the criminal justice system will work. Remember we live in a world where "it is better that 10 criminals go free than to have one innocent convicted." It's not always easy to get a conviction, although the evidence in this case seems conclusive. Even if convicted, what sentence would Mr. Blow recommend for someone without a previous criminal record who made a one-time, fatal, mistake?
I have had many casual encounters with police officers throughout my life. I have even had a few not so casual, including several traffic stops and an early morning sidewalk interview as I walked to a college course along a residential street.
I can well remember my inner trepidation every time I see the tools of enforcement, the uniform and the badge.
And I'm a white, affluent, former US Marine.
People may say they ran for a reason. For we all wish to see ourselves as rational. But really we are at best sensible and in most cases no more than emotional. We run because we are afraid and fear has no rationale.
As to the officers motivation I suspect even he cannot be sure but likely Mr. Scott just irritated him in some way. Running, thrashing to get out of his grip or free of the taser, running again.
What is most disgusting is the officer's demeanor as he draws and fires off half his clip into the back of a defenseless man. As if there is no question that defying his authority is sufficient cause for summary execution.
Yes, that is the police officer we all fear when we see the accoutered, uniformed menace coming into view.
Regardless of our culture, skin color or status.
I can well remember my inner trepidation every time I see the tools of enforcement, the uniform and the badge.
And I'm a white, affluent, former US Marine.
People may say they ran for a reason. For we all wish to see ourselves as rational. But really we are at best sensible and in most cases no more than emotional. We run because we are afraid and fear has no rationale.
As to the officers motivation I suspect even he cannot be sure but likely Mr. Scott just irritated him in some way. Running, thrashing to get out of his grip or free of the taser, running again.
What is most disgusting is the officer's demeanor as he draws and fires off half his clip into the back of a defenseless man. As if there is no question that defying his authority is sufficient cause for summary execution.
Yes, that is the police officer we all fear when we see the accoutered, uniformed menace coming into view.
Regardless of our culture, skin color or status.
4
Unfortunately for Blow's credibility, he has not shown that he can differentiate between a black man who is running away, a black man who attacks an officer after committing a felony, or a black man who is shot in self defence while attacking a security guard. They are all victims of a racist society to Blow.
2
I don't understand white attitudes with regard to the police. There is no doubt that the police consider people of color expendable. My only surprise is that the riots and burnings and civil disobedience that we lived thru in the sixties haven't started again. We are not civilized enough to change through discussion . Our benchmark for social change has always been violence. When people can't walk down the street or live there own lifestyle without fear then the match will be lit.
2
This is not a story about Walter Scott but whether we need the police force any longer.
If one read the US newspapers, he or she would conclude that without the police force there would be no problems in America at all, no crimes, no robberies, no home invasions, no domestic violence, no murders, no carjacking and no gangs...
The police officers are just the humans. It’s our duty to help them out do their jobs better. Prerequisite for good police force is that the civilians help them in performing their duties. Without such a help, it’s impossible to police any society.
The prerequisite for good police force is trust and love for the law and order.
The citizens must be willing to cooperate and help the police officers.
It means when the police officers stop any car, they don’t know who is inside a car and whether their lives are in danger. They are tense and stressed while approaching your vehicle. If a wanted criminal was inside a car, he would shoot officer without warning to avoid going to jail for several decades.
If you start running from a police officer, he believes there is a reason for it. If he let you run and you kill somebody behind a corner in attempt to hijack a car and disappear, the very police officer would be blamed for letting it happen.
Under such conditions, there is no salary in the world for join a police force.
Our media are intentionally destroying the trust the citizens have in our police force.
It will backfire for sure...
If one read the US newspapers, he or she would conclude that without the police force there would be no problems in America at all, no crimes, no robberies, no home invasions, no domestic violence, no murders, no carjacking and no gangs...
The police officers are just the humans. It’s our duty to help them out do their jobs better. Prerequisite for good police force is that the civilians help them in performing their duties. Without such a help, it’s impossible to police any society.
The prerequisite for good police force is trust and love for the law and order.
The citizens must be willing to cooperate and help the police officers.
It means when the police officers stop any car, they don’t know who is inside a car and whether their lives are in danger. They are tense and stressed while approaching your vehicle. If a wanted criminal was inside a car, he would shoot officer without warning to avoid going to jail for several decades.
If you start running from a police officer, he believes there is a reason for it. If he let you run and you kill somebody behind a corner in attempt to hijack a car and disappear, the very police officer would be blamed for letting it happen.
Under such conditions, there is no salary in the world for join a police force.
Our media are intentionally destroying the trust the citizens have in our police force.
It will backfire for sure...
2
You know Charles, yesterday I was listening to Earth Wind and Fire's song "Sun Goddess," hoping for motivation to get my yard cleaned up. I don't know if this is appropriate but here it goes. "The video that has now been made public is incredibly disturbing and may prove incontrovertible. We will wait and see. But it is important to remember that waiting is a luxury of time afforded to the living. Time has ceased for Mr. Scott." Something is definitely amiss in our criminal justice department. And, as it's written in EW&F's song In the Stone, "Every man I meet is walking time. Free to wonder past his conscious mind." I see a better future in terms of justice. We have a lot of very good men and women on the police force.
Keep of the good work.
Keep of the good work.
1
In all seriousness, I pose this question: Is it time to reconsider why all police officers must be armed with a firearm at all times? Could police/community relations be improved by a disarmament? Can't we consider this?
3
Only if we seriously consider disarming the wider citizenry which, whilst an excellent idea, will obviously never happen here. Countries such as the UK (where the number of citizens killed by police is infinitesimal compared to the US) can afford to have a generally unarmed police force (except for special units) because most British citizens cannot legally obtain firearms. That keeps both police and citizenry safe from being shot except in rare cases.
I can't help but think that so often, this thinking is a form of self-delusion -- "So and so did this, and was killed (or raped, or beaten, etc). I would never do this, therefore I would never face such a consequence." There are too many people, vulnerable because of their race or gender or even economic class, who do not have the luxury of such a delusion; they've witnessed it too often.
2
Your're right -- experience is often the WORST teacher, for some.
That is, certainly by middle-age, many people believe that their experiences are nearly complete and represent the 'average' or the 'typical' or the 'majority' of the experiences of 'most' people.
If anything, their experiences -- particularly when they have been easy to live with -- actually bias them, and they become impervious to fact-based persuasion, that no, other folks actually have had worse experiences.
This is the root of the 'banality of evil.' People often don't set out to do evil, or to contribute to it, but they do so just the same, but just refuse to be aware of it, or are so 'thoughtless' as the consequences of what they do or what the fail to do.
That is, certainly by middle-age, many people believe that their experiences are nearly complete and represent the 'average' or the 'typical' or the 'majority' of the experiences of 'most' people.
If anything, their experiences -- particularly when they have been easy to live with -- actually bias them, and they become impervious to fact-based persuasion, that no, other folks actually have had worse experiences.
This is the root of the 'banality of evil.' People often don't set out to do evil, or to contribute to it, but they do so just the same, but just refuse to be aware of it, or are so 'thoughtless' as the consequences of what they do or what the fail to do.
I recall as a child watching an episode of Dragnet in which Joe Friday and Bill Gannon pursue and shoot dead a fleeing suspect (a young man). Then they deliver the news to his mother, and essentially say they hadn't meant to kill, just to wound him. I was really scared of the police after that.
1
I wonder how many of the people who look for excuses to exonerate the police when they kill are also supporters of the anti-abortion measures we see proliferating in state legislatures. For that group, the sanctity of life ends at birth.
How much of this fear on the part of police - if that is a real factor at all - results from living in a society that is armed to the teeth? Has anyone looked to see if there is a correlation between lax gun laws and police shootings? Of course, the correlation - if it exist - could be due to living in a place with a macho, gun happy mentality and not fear at all.
The whole mess is deplorable. Has the militarization of police equipment and training and/or the hiring of former soldiers also contributed to the epidemic of police killing people in communities they are supposed to be protecting? We need protection from them. Frankly, the Mafia is probably more stable and reliable.
I suggest we hire retired London bobbies to train our own police forces. They seem to be able to handle traffic stops and teens without resorting to killing.
How much of this fear on the part of police - if that is a real factor at all - results from living in a society that is armed to the teeth? Has anyone looked to see if there is a correlation between lax gun laws and police shootings? Of course, the correlation - if it exist - could be due to living in a place with a macho, gun happy mentality and not fear at all.
The whole mess is deplorable. Has the militarization of police equipment and training and/or the hiring of former soldiers also contributed to the epidemic of police killing people in communities they are supposed to be protecting? We need protection from them. Frankly, the Mafia is probably more stable and reliable.
I suggest we hire retired London bobbies to train our own police forces. They seem to be able to handle traffic stops and teens without resorting to killing.
2
I thank God for you, Mr. Blow, because you are one of the last remaining voice of conscience for our nation.
As you wrote some time ago, violence done against black men is an expression of the racist mental images that are learned in our culture, even though the images are fantasy. White Americans have a hard enough time coming to terms with this reality.
I find it is even more challenging for White Americans to accept that our criminal justice system is sometimes so completely arbitrary that a citizen can be shot dead for running from a traffic stop. This terrifies people (as it should). So beyond the difficulty of acknowledging we all harbor fantastic racist images, there is the terror of looking the worst of our criminal justice system dead-on, which means working for change.
As you wrote some time ago, violence done against black men is an expression of the racist mental images that are learned in our culture, even though the images are fantasy. White Americans have a hard enough time coming to terms with this reality.
I find it is even more challenging for White Americans to accept that our criminal justice system is sometimes so completely arbitrary that a citizen can be shot dead for running from a traffic stop. This terrifies people (as it should). So beyond the difficulty of acknowledging we all harbor fantastic racist images, there is the terror of looking the worst of our criminal justice system dead-on, which means working for change.
3
"Why didn't he do what the officer told him to do?" is what I've been hearing so much lately as if the idea of a man running from a cop deserves whatever punishment the cop can come up with to save his arrest and his own face. The idea of a cop standing there without his perp who has humiliated him by fleeing is so potent to many who rely on the force and protection of white discipline that they identify with this out of breath, stressed, impatient, rattled officer who pulled his gun and, his last nerve twanging, committed murder.
1
Mr. Blow, all questions posed by us humans, who don't have all the answers or reasons, are valid. We are all in the dark in this life, in a way. There is no guide book one gets at the beginning to tell us unequivocally how one should feel and think about everything. I think that a disservice comes when any thought on any subject is questioned. I thought there were no stupid questions - Only stupid answers?
Yes, what Officer Slager did was apparently beyond the scope of what is right and justified. In fact incredibly wrong.
And . . .and . . . oh well, I won't even ask; I don't want to be misunderstood in public.
See, there I am NOT asking a question now because I don't want the fallout.
What good is that for anybody?
Yes, what Officer Slager did was apparently beyond the scope of what is right and justified. In fact incredibly wrong.
And . . .and . . . oh well, I won't even ask; I don't want to be misunderstood in public.
See, there I am NOT asking a question now because I don't want the fallout.
What good is that for anybody?
On the face of it the shooting in South Carolina has no justification. It is also the case that when civilians shot each other, baring self defense, there is no justification. Society, however, give police guns and badges and that partially change the equation. Police should always have to justify their use of deadly force. Part of that justification is the actions and other issues that may reflect on the actions of the shooting victim.
1
If that was a white guy running from child support warrants, he would be alive today. I have a black grand nephew now, and I worry about what I am going to do when we are fishing and I hear a racial comment, let alone the 'getting stopped while driving'. My hands are not clean of prejudice. So I know that it will happen and I will face something frightening: My anger. I have a few years to learn restraint. Which isn't even close to enough time.
It's obvious I have no frame of reference for this, love-protection will overwhelm me and I will act. I've never had this dilemma before and the blue sky has turned a gloomy white.
It's obvious I have no frame of reference for this, love-protection will overwhelm me and I will act. I've never had this dilemma before and the blue sky has turned a gloomy white.
2
Here's a radical thought. How about arming police only with tasers and batons, no guns? Police in the UK are not armed except for special tactical squads. They use their batons and probably some better social skills.
5
I would like to agree with you, but we are not the UK. A good deal of our citizens are legally armed and many aren't. We have a disturbing gun culture in this country and it is only getting worse. Many things are wrong with how we are policed in this country, including always giving LE the benefit of doubt, the "blue line" that leads to cover-ups of wrong doing, the militarization of police, the chipping away of our Fourth Amendment rights, and the Us vs Them mentality of LE that seems to be on the rise. But, I would argue that the thought of everyone police may encounter could be armed must add stress and a certain amount of paranoia to an officer. There is no easy fix to that problem.
1
"If only he hadn't run."
I suspect that even some of the victim's family and friends are saying that. Which is NOT the same as suggesting that Scott somehow precipitated his own shooting. The decision to shoot or not shoot was completely in the hands of the cop. But if he had not run, he'd likely be alive today.
I suspect that even some of the victim's family and friends are saying that. Which is NOT the same as suggesting that Scott somehow precipitated his own shooting. The decision to shoot or not shoot was completely in the hands of the cop. But if he had not run, he'd likely be alive today.
3
How likely?
1
Mr. Blow has hit the nail on its head.....there is no reason that Walter Scott should be dead. There also, unfortunately, is no reason that he should have feared the police enough to run. One of the things that first crossed my mind when he waffled on his explanation to the policeman was that perhaps the car was stolen. But even had that been the case...there is no reason that Walter Scott should be dead. When I realized my first reaction, I was reminded again how so much subliminal racism still exists in our country....and for those who think equal treatment under the law if available, think again. We cannot be equal when a large portion of our population has to teach their children how to react when confronted by law enforcement. We cannot be equal when there is such a disproportionate number of young black men in our prisons. We cannot be equal when educational and work opportunities keep large numbers of our population below the poverty level. Until we vanquish the elitist plutocrats who decimate public monies that should help remedy our social problems in favor of further lining their gold pockets, there is no equality and racism will remain alive and well. The only bit of light that shines in the Scott case is that the video surfaced, and justice may be served.
2
Not only is Mr. Scott's family now denied his participation, but child support is precluded. This is wrong on all counts.
2
To your point Charles Blow that "Walter Scott is not on trial..."
in this issue of the NYT, we now learn that Officer Slager is a quiet man who is 'scorned' , whose mother says her son, Slager is 'scared to death. ' The officer who shot Walter Scott 8 times, in the back, cuffed the dead man, manipulated evidence after the killing is now portrayed sympathetically as the product of divorced parents.
None of Slager's past in this regard has relevance. Watch though, as the time passes, even though Slager is charged with murder the story will devolve to misdeeds of Walter Scott as the cause of his callous demise by a police officer who was not only reckless but had no regard for human life or the shameless cover up and false police report.
Slager may be 'scared to death" as his mother anguishes
but I, as a citizen, am 'scared to death' with American criminal justice run amok.
in this issue of the NYT, we now learn that Officer Slager is a quiet man who is 'scorned' , whose mother says her son, Slager is 'scared to death. ' The officer who shot Walter Scott 8 times, in the back, cuffed the dead man, manipulated evidence after the killing is now portrayed sympathetically as the product of divorced parents.
None of Slager's past in this regard has relevance. Watch though, as the time passes, even though Slager is charged with murder the story will devolve to misdeeds of Walter Scott as the cause of his callous demise by a police officer who was not only reckless but had no regard for human life or the shameless cover up and false police report.
Slager may be 'scared to death" as his mother anguishes
but I, as a citizen, am 'scared to death' with American criminal justice run amok.
10
We have GOT to stop recruiting combat veterans into police forces. A cop is not a soldier, and a suspect is not an enemy combatant for God's sake.
8
When I lived in Chicago, my friends on the police force told me that in was common practice for officers to keep a "throw away" gun that they could leave near the corpse after a police killing. These guns were acquired by stealing them from the evidence rooms or from seizure in the course of stop and search detainings.
Realistically, anyone given a license to kill, any officer issued a badge and a gun MUST be held to the highest possible level of accountability. Omerta is not acceptable. AGB
Realistically, anyone given a license to kill, any officer issued a badge and a gun MUST be held to the highest possible level of accountability. Omerta is not acceptable. AGB
6
If we want to stop "bad police" from doing "bad" things we have to break down the "Blue Wall of Silence". That is why all the policemen who were involved in the false reporting of the Scott killing need to be prosecuted.
I the police were worried about lying to back up the "bad apples" in the police then the "bad apples" would have to either change their behavior or get in trouble.
I the police were worried about lying to back up the "bad apples" in the police then the "bad apples" would have to either change their behavior or get in trouble.
8
In any encounter with the cops or any armed white person every Black African American male is on trial. Carrying the burden of a humanity and equality denying Black American history they are profiled, stalked, stopped, harassed, humiliated, beaten and shot.
8
Correct but for one thing: it is not just black men. It is black boys and girls, black women and men.
1
The obsession with guns in this country contributes to so much of what's wrong with our culture. It seems that anybody, policeman or not, can shoot and get away with it because guns are so worshiped that any thought of control of them makes people hysterical. I was in a local grocery store yesterday and a large man had on a shirt with the message emblazoned all over the back, "Take Your Gun Control and Shove it Up Your (picture of a donkey). Now that conveyed two things: anti gun control and anti Democrat. I wanted so much to say to him, "When some nut with a gun kills your child or grandchild will you still wear that shirt"? But I'm not that brave. I doubt that two people in that crowded store would have agreed with me.
Five miles from my house is a gun club that just opened a couple of months ago. My husband and I drove by it on Saturday on the way to someplace else and sure enough, the parking lot was full. They are all probably good and decent people, but I wish they could find better things to do.
Five miles from my house is a gun club that just opened a couple of months ago. My husband and I drove by it on Saturday on the way to someplace else and sure enough, the parking lot was full. They are all probably good and decent people, but I wish they could find better things to do.
7
Whatever happened to chasing down a fleeing suspect? Does that happen only in movies and TV shows?
7
I rarely agree with Mr. Blow but he is on the money. No one should die because of a broken tail light. If there had not been a video, the local political structure would have whitewashed the event.
7
As several readers have noted, the most appalling concept we can take away from this killing is the cool detached manner in which it was committed.
Without the video, the killer cop would have pulled it off and no one would have been the wiser.
Mr. Scott's father put it most poignantly after he saw the video "he shot my son as if shooting a running deer." This is psychopathic behavior. Behind a nice guy façade and an acceptable cop demeanor a monster was crouching in the corner. Officer Slager really WANTED to be a cop because the monster was waiting for just the right opportunity to gun down SOMEONE who would oppose him. There is no telling how the tremendous publicity surrounding Brown's "hands-up-don't-shoot" killing played on this man?
The moral insanity of the psychopathic disorder is the most societally acceptable of mental disorders simply because it is totally covert, hidden, and very hard to detect. However when the monster comes out of the shadows the behavior is most shocking because it is so cold and devoid of passion. Deep down Slager did not surprise himself, he found himself. Hence his nervous little laugh recorded in talking with his senior officer while being driven home. He really did get a charge out of doing it.
How do we detect psychopathic cops BEFORE they get the badge? Maybe we can't! How many such individuals like this serve the public as police? Could it be 5-10%? More?
So Slager has no remorse and enjoyed the opportunity. No video-no crime.
Without the video, the killer cop would have pulled it off and no one would have been the wiser.
Mr. Scott's father put it most poignantly after he saw the video "he shot my son as if shooting a running deer." This is psychopathic behavior. Behind a nice guy façade and an acceptable cop demeanor a monster was crouching in the corner. Officer Slager really WANTED to be a cop because the monster was waiting for just the right opportunity to gun down SOMEONE who would oppose him. There is no telling how the tremendous publicity surrounding Brown's "hands-up-don't-shoot" killing played on this man?
The moral insanity of the psychopathic disorder is the most societally acceptable of mental disorders simply because it is totally covert, hidden, and very hard to detect. However when the monster comes out of the shadows the behavior is most shocking because it is so cold and devoid of passion. Deep down Slager did not surprise himself, he found himself. Hence his nervous little laugh recorded in talking with his senior officer while being driven home. He really did get a charge out of doing it.
How do we detect psychopathic cops BEFORE they get the badge? Maybe we can't! How many such individuals like this serve the public as police? Could it be 5-10%? More?
So Slager has no remorse and enjoyed the opportunity. No video-no crime.
8
This is not a problem of psychopathy. It is one of policy.
The so-called "less-lethal" taser is frequently used to enforce obedience to the whims of cops, not in situations where an aggressive suspect must be stopped.
And, while the taser is "less-lethal," it is still very dangerous: "'Taser warns that the device can cause burns. Moreover, the company acknowledges these burns can become infected. It warns that people who are shocked by Tasers can suffer bone fractures, hernias, ruptures and dislocations.'
"And yet, police use these things indiscriminately."
[http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2008/11/taser-tort-by-digby-this-report-f...]
The so-called "less-lethal" taser is frequently used to enforce obedience to the whims of cops, not in situations where an aggressive suspect must be stopped.
And, while the taser is "less-lethal," it is still very dangerous: "'Taser warns that the device can cause burns. Moreover, the company acknowledges these burns can become infected. It warns that people who are shocked by Tasers can suffer bone fractures, hernias, ruptures and dislocations.'
"And yet, police use these things indiscriminately."
[http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2008/11/taser-tort-by-digby-this-report-f...]
1
To argue that Scott bears no portion of the responsibility for the shooting indicates a strange sort of moral blindness. Charles Blow evidently thinks Walter Scott was exercising his constitutional right to resist arrest when he was shot by Officer Michael Slager, but no such right exists. While it may not justify the use of deadly force, the video does provide exculpatory evidence. It shows that Scott has taken Slager’s Taser. The Taser wires are trailing behind Scott as he runs and two Taser darts are lodged in the police officer’s clothing. This indicates that Scott still has the Taser as he runs. (The item that falls to the ground as Scott breaks away is the Taser’s trigger housing.) So it appears that Scott has not only taken the officer’s Taser, but may have used it against him.
10
Moral Blindness?? What moral justification is there to deliver a death sentence for running away from a police officer? I know they do things different in Texas but c'mon. No one deserves to be shot and killed for not wanting to be arrested. Up to the point of tasering the sole charge would have been eluding an officer. That's not a capital crime.
6
Resisting arrest? At what point does a broken taillight become an arrest warrant? Slager had his license and in fact his car!! He knew who he was and would presumably be able to capture him eventually if need be. If I was been tasered at close range my natural instinct would be to attempt to deflect the stun gun away. In any event, I could not see and have not heard of any evidence that warranted pursuit, tasering or shooting a weapon.
2
Please could you post a link to the video that shows Scott taking the taser?
I hope you are not engaging in guess work...
More importantly, even if Scott took the taser at one moment, when he ran away, he had nothing in his hand.
So, do you think the police can shoot people in retaliation?
I hope you are not engaging in guess work...
More importantly, even if Scott took the taser at one moment, when he ran away, he had nothing in his hand.
So, do you think the police can shoot people in retaliation?
2
White conservatives are always trying to make the physical appearance of the black victim part of the excuse why the victim contributed to his own death.
Travon Martin went from being a 17 year old with a pack of candy and a soft drink (that he paid for) visiting his father to a hulking, drug crazed mixed martial arts brute once conservative media got done with him.
Even the 12 year old boy in Cleveland was described by white conservatives as "big for his age", a statement attributed to the victim's mother, as if that justified the cop shooting the kid within two seconds of showing up on the scene.
Bottom line: the default position by cops for dealing with any issue is shoot to kill, then play the equivalent of the stand your ground card and say you felt threatened.
Travon Martin went from being a 17 year old with a pack of candy and a soft drink (that he paid for) visiting his father to a hulking, drug crazed mixed martial arts brute once conservative media got done with him.
Even the 12 year old boy in Cleveland was described by white conservatives as "big for his age", a statement attributed to the victim's mother, as if that justified the cop shooting the kid within two seconds of showing up on the scene.
Bottom line: the default position by cops for dealing with any issue is shoot to kill, then play the equivalent of the stand your ground card and say you felt threatened.
97
And don't forget, Trayvon was wearing a hoodie ...
1
You might be over generalizing....Trayvon wasn't killed by the police. The police told George Zimmerman to stand down.
1
Zimmerman was acting in a quasi law enforcement role as a leader of a block watch group.
Those statistics you quoted from Associated Press's survey, 70% would approve of a police officer striking a man, is the most important reason why the police are out of control: they have a majority who support their violent attitudes.
74
Yes. And police officers are coming out of that 70%.
Unless/until police officers are expected (demanded) to behave in a manner that respects human life (no matter the shape or color or clothing or even the crime), well beyond the public's attitude, these brutal crimes by our protectors (!) will continue.
Yes, we know (most of us really do know!) that police officers face danger often, and that it may not always be possible to think fast enough to make the right judgments. For this very reason, our officers should be selected for their wish to protect, not bully the people entrusted to their care, sometimes even from themselves.
Unless/until police officers are expected (demanded) to behave in a manner that respects human life (no matter the shape or color or clothing or even the crime), well beyond the public's attitude, these brutal crimes by our protectors (!) will continue.
Yes, we know (most of us really do know!) that police officers face danger often, and that it may not always be possible to think fast enough to make the right judgments. For this very reason, our officers should be selected for their wish to protect, not bully the people entrusted to their care, sometimes even from themselves.
2
Police DON'T face danger often. A 2001 review of ten years of national traffic stop data in the Journal of Criminal Justice estimated the risk of a police fatality during a traffic stop at between 1 in 6.7 million and 1 in 20.1 million. [http://ow.ly/LxU4Q for the study, PDF]
1
If you read the question carefully, you will find that it does not say what you think it said. 70% of whites agreed that "they can imagine a situation in which they would approve of a police officer striking a man".
Even if you believe that most of the time when police officers strike someone they are unjustified, if you cannot imagine a situation where it would be justified, you are either entirely lacking in imagination or so prejudiced against the police that I doubt we can debate this topic rationally.
If a police officer is sometimes justified in using deadly force, then there must be some situations were it is appropriate to use non-deadly physical force.
Let us turn the question around. Is there any time that a citizen would be justified in striking a police officer? For example, if you saw a police officer firing a gun a a fleeing, unarmed man, would you be justified in using physical force to try to stop him?
Even if you believe that most of the time when police officers strike someone they are unjustified, if you cannot imagine a situation where it would be justified, you are either entirely lacking in imagination or so prejudiced against the police that I doubt we can debate this topic rationally.
If a police officer is sometimes justified in using deadly force, then there must be some situations were it is appropriate to use non-deadly physical force.
Let us turn the question around. Is there any time that a citizen would be justified in striking a police officer? For example, if you saw a police officer firing a gun a a fleeing, unarmed man, would you be justified in using physical force to try to stop him?
So, he ran from a broken tail light? They had the car. there is NO excuse for the shooting no matter what he did since he ran away. Feared for my life? That's getting to be the mantra for these killings.
6
Mr Blow. The problem is most cops like the power they have. When someone does not listen to them they feel disrespected and hurt and then someone either goes to jail or gets killed. Running away from the police should not be an automatic death sentence, the police could always pick him up later at his house. Also as long as people defend this type of behavior from the police, we will keep seeing more of it. There are so many unarmed people being killed by the police, I think there is a problem. And it needs to stop.
98
Police have become immature bullies with guns which, seemingly, they are aching to put to use. I'm done with them. They have become the criminals. Too bad for the officers who joined the force thinking they could do some good, it's time for them to find new jobs.
10
I small proportion of police seem to envision themselves as domestic versions of "American Sniper", fightin' bad guys. A dubious attitude for a war zone, this is entirely inappropriate for a police officer. Those harboring these perspectives should be screened for, and identified for further training, and in some cases removed from service.
They weaken the effectiveness of, and make the job more difficult for competent police officers.
They weaken the effectiveness of, and make the job more difficult for competent police officers.
3
There has always been a lot of sympathy for cops who see danger and shoot "in the heat of the moment." Why so little for those who see danger and run in the heat of the moment? Running may not be the rational choice, balanced against the possibility of being killed, but it's no less understandable than those who run from an angry bear. The problem is the policeman seeing this as a competition he doesn't want to lose--a competition exacerbated by racism which inflames our least-rational anxieties about status and competence. Telling people not to run from an armed cop--yeah, fine, but it makes far more sense to deal with the cop, the one carrying the gun, the one who is a public employee.
5
Shooting, or killing, a suspect by the police should only be done only if the situation at hand appears to be imminently life threatening for others e. g., innocent bystanders, the police officer himself, etc. Garner was not endangering anyone. He could have been told that "we'll come for you tomorrow if you don't come peacefully now....and we'll make it harder for you." Scott would have been easily findable the next day, or that evening, via his passenger's information and traceability of his car.
I was unconvinced of the necessity of storming the Koresh Waco compound some years back. The FBI sounded the alarm of "imminent" danger as it's rationale to do so and we know the results of that fiasco.
Doesn't the phrase..."time is on our side" mean anything to police?
I was unconvinced of the necessity of storming the Koresh Waco compound some years back. The FBI sounded the alarm of "imminent" danger as it's rationale to do so and we know the results of that fiasco.
Doesn't the phrase..."time is on our side" mean anything to police?
1
David Koresh and his followers were a threatening nut cult that had been scaring the heck out of every single one of their neighbors and stockpiling weapons up to and including .50 cal machine guns. And when the ATF finally showed up, they refused to comply woth a lawful warrant, holed up, and started shooting. And then, Koresh et al appear to have started the fires.
It's interesting that you'd stick up for them in defiance of facts, and against a fleeing susoect in definace of the facts.
It's interesting that you'd stick up for them in defiance of facts, and against a fleeing susoect in definace of the facts.
Mr. Scott has gone to his eternal reward. That reward, believe it, has been purchased for all of us.
And all of us need it, because of the unwise and uncaring mistakes in our lives.
The world has changed greatly in the last decade, and I'm not talking Global Warming here. Police rules for apprehension must change too.
That said, what sticks most in my mind about this tragedy, is why would anyone run if the cop is yelling, "Stop, or I'll shoot." Tragic.
And all of us need it, because of the unwise and uncaring mistakes in our lives.
The world has changed greatly in the last decade, and I'm not talking Global Warming here. Police rules for apprehension must change too.
That said, what sticks most in my mind about this tragedy, is why would anyone run if the cop is yelling, "Stop, or I'll shoot." Tragic.
What sticks in my mind is that you made up a non-occurrence: the killer cop yelling at Mr. Scott.
1
Every single police officer in this country should be required to take the implicit bias test available online. I took it as a progressive white woman and still had a shamefully slower time associating good with dark Those milliseconds when an officer is deciding to use force and how much are the difference between life and death in the real world. Perhaps the first step is self-knowledge that a bias exists.
3
A man's Constitutional rights were violated -- his right to a fair trial, and his right to life -- all because a dirty cop thought no one was recording.
Let's make sure all dirty cops are exposed and all dirty cops are exonerated.
Support Scott's Law.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/make-it-federal-law-all-armed-...
Let's make sure all dirty cops are exposed and all dirty cops are exonerated.
Support Scott's Law.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/make-it-federal-law-all-armed-...
2
What we don't see here is some equivalency in the value of lives. You might think that the killing of law enforcement officers is on the rise, which it is not the case. Or that their occupation is the most dangerous, which it is not. A police officer's death in the line of duty, etc, is tragic but so is the value of everyone's life, even somebody who is disobedient or uncooperative or poor or black.
3
This officer clearly crossed a line that should not have been crossed. He did not wake up that day intent on killing someone nor was that his intention when he pulled Mr. Scott over. Still it is disingenuous for Mr. Blow and others in the black community to ignore the fact that the behavior of the person being arrested or detained by the police has some role in these instances. If the police are engaging with you and you resist or flee the situation becomes exponentially more threatening for the police officer. This police officer committed a crime but Mr. Scott would also undoubtedly be alive today if he didn't flee. That is indisputable.
"but Mr. Scott would also undoubtedly be alive today if he didn't flee. That is indisputable."
NOT if a man, simply another man, no matter his station, had NOT stood behind him and had NOT gunned him down for no justifiable reason. That is also indisputable.
NOT if a man, simply another man, no matter his station, had NOT stood behind him and had NOT gunned him down for no justifiable reason. That is also indisputable.
2
Evidence that your "indisputable" is utterly untrue: Kenneth Chamberlain, Sr., was killed in his home on November 19, 2011, in White Plains, New York. After his Life Aid medical alert necklace was inadvertently triggered, police came to his home and demanded that he open his front door. Despite his objections and statements that he did not need help, the police broke down Chamberlain's door, tasered him, and then shot him dead.
Time to re-examine your racist assumptions.
Time to re-examine your racist assumptions.
What possible crime can you imagine that would justify a policeman to act as judge and jury? He was pulled over for a broken tail light. He wasn't an armed suspect in a violent crime. The policeman had no information suggesting he was a threat to anyone.
If I were Black and aware of all I've seen of police behavior, I might have run, too.
If I were Black and aware of all I've seen of police behavior, I might have run, too.
One component that is left out of all the discussions, perhaps because the overt racism that is manifested in each of the cases and the militarization of our police ( I recently drove through Scarsdale NY and saw a police officer directing traffic at a broken traffic light - dressed and armed as though he were going off to Fallujah!) is the prevalence of an armed populous thanks to the NRA and a good portion of the Republican Party. Poor training, bully cops, racist cops are all a major part of the problem. But what about the good police? Wondering, with justification if every one they meet is armed and ready for battle? We can address racism, we can address the lack of oversight of police departments and we can address the blue wall of silence, but unless we add the NRA to the this mix, this will continue!
9
I'd like to suggest that our right wing politicians have been doing the same thing verbally to our President (i.e. verbally shooting and lying about it) since before he took the oath of office.
13
I didn't know a thing about what had occurred between Mr. Scott and the policemen prior to the scene of Mr. Scott running with his back turned, and then watching him fall. But when I saw the officer go out of frame, and return to drop the stun gun over a dying man (we will never know if he choked to death or died immediately from the 8 bullets), my heart fell to my knees and I began to pray.
4
Why with all the recent killings have we not been able to make a change? I think the militarization of our police force could be to blame. (Lord knows the politicians wont admit that, as they gave the police the equipment) The police are now treating some of us like the enemy (usually the ones that don’t look like them) instead of those they have swoon to protect AND are paid to protect. The military are trained to look for the enemy. They do not perform CPR if they shoot someone, they don’t show them any compassion. THE PUBLIC IS NOT THE ENEMY. Notice how you see the military gear during protests? Isn’t protesting also a constitutional right? Do we really need such over force? Who exactly feels better when the police show up like this? Not me and not anyone I know. This is a method of intimidation. It seems high time to put the Military police back in the bottle. Return policing to what it was meant for. To protect the public. I would like to see all the cases in which anyone who has been killed by a police officer be reexamined. We now have proof that being a police officer does not exclude you from lying. Police lie, victims lie, assailants lie. Humans lie. Does all of the physical evidence match to the reports? Has there been an independent review done in each case by someone the family of the deceased also feels is independent? What would you like done if it was one of your family members?
7
When I saw the 2nd video the first thought to enter my mind was wow this is going to change the argument and blame the victim. Of course the right wing started with why did he run, if you have nothing to fear why did he run. The same voices that say I have nothing to hide so i don't care if the NSA listens to and reads everything I say or write. These are the same voices that want the leaders to read the constitution before congress opens and vote for candidates that "support" the constitution. How many constitutional rights of Mr Scott were violated in the minutes before his death.
All we need now is a supreme court decision to make these videos inadmissible or have Obama declare all police officers Double O agents and just give them a license to kill.
All we need now is a supreme court decision to make these videos inadmissible or have Obama declare all police officers Double O agents and just give them a license to kill.
2
Another meme to watch out for. Were the police officer and the deceased wrestling for the taser, who was on top of whom, did the deceased try to take the taser from the police officer? All red herrings. And the prosecutors better not fall into the trap of arguing this during the trial (if there is one). I only caught snippets of the George Zimmerman trial, but when I heard the prosecutors in their closing arguing about whether Zimmerman or Martin was on top in their wrassle on the ground, I said, "this is done, he walks." Remember, the person who controls the terms of debate wins the debate. Zimmerman got out of a car, with a gun, after being told by police not to, and stalked a teenager. If the teenager, in fear of a crazy guy stalking him, hid behind a building and jumped the other guy, it's a non-issue. The law should not allow Zimmerman to carry his zone of protection (his "castle") with his firearm wherever he walks, nor should he be allowed to "fear for his life" when he has a gun. In the South Carolina case, the taser is a non-issue, running away is a non-issue (per the Supreme Court). Taking a target-practice stance and gunning down a man running away is the only issue.
5
Perhaps my thinking is too abstract, but I can not help but be aware of the deep roots of violence in this country. It is every where from our media to our glamorization of guns to the way so many denigrate our President so violently. It is not only the blatant police brutality, but the dehumanizing of the poor and the I've got mine attitudes of so many that does not allow us to see people as flesh and blood struggling individuals..
Yes we should deal with the individual problems of police violence, out of control guns and violent sexual assaults on our campuses. But how do we deal with the underlying attitudes of fear and underlying dehumanization of people that has occurred in our society.
Yes we should deal with the individual problems of police violence, out of control guns and violent sexual assaults on our campuses. But how do we deal with the underlying attitudes of fear and underlying dehumanization of people that has occurred in our society.
4
I agree running does not justify shooting. However, the available video shows Scott ran twice: once from his car, once after struggling with Slager. We don't know the details of the struggle but it is fair to believe if someone struggles with a cop, they are resisting.
We don't know whether Scott grabbed Slager's taser, we know something fell to the ground. So before shooting, what does Slager know? A routine traffic stop, the driver runs, struggles, has possibly taken his taser and is now running again. Slager can't know whether Scott is armed -- he hasn't frisked him. We know after the fact, but Slager can't know.
Slager shouldn't have shot, most would agree he should have called for backup. But what are the police trained to do in this situation? Are they told to let those who run go? Slager and Scott have struggled once, so should Slager have run after Scott and again tried to physically restrain him?
The dash cam shows Slager being polite, not threatening after he stops Scott. He had a good record as a cop. So what happened in the period we don't have video to change Slager into someone who shoots someone in the back?
Slager was wrong, but Scott didn't just run, he ran, struggled, ran again. And while many want to use this to indict all police, it was the act of one cop. Slager probably acted wrongly, but let's let the legal system decide. But there is no evidence he was racist. And let's not use this to justify being wrong on Ferguson.
We don't know whether Scott grabbed Slager's taser, we know something fell to the ground. So before shooting, what does Slager know? A routine traffic stop, the driver runs, struggles, has possibly taken his taser and is now running again. Slager can't know whether Scott is armed -- he hasn't frisked him. We know after the fact, but Slager can't know.
Slager shouldn't have shot, most would agree he should have called for backup. But what are the police trained to do in this situation? Are they told to let those who run go? Slager and Scott have struggled once, so should Slager have run after Scott and again tried to physically restrain him?
The dash cam shows Slager being polite, not threatening after he stops Scott. He had a good record as a cop. So what happened in the period we don't have video to change Slager into someone who shoots someone in the back?
Slager was wrong, but Scott didn't just run, he ran, struggled, ran again. And while many want to use this to indict all police, it was the act of one cop. Slager probably acted wrongly, but let's let the legal system decide. But there is no evidence he was racist. And let's not use this to justify being wrong on Ferguson.
2
The video speaks for itself, the criminal justice system will deal with the police officer. However, I have been asking my co-workers if Mr. Scott would've obeyed the police officers and stayed in the car he might still be alive. I plead with my son all the time to please follow the instructions of police whenever you encounter any law enforcement person (No Exceptions). People like you will not address this issue (obeying the police). When people are little you are "TOLD" to follow the instructions of the police, NO Exceptions. When people violate that basic instruction, tragedies happen. (Mr. Scott and his family & the police officer and his family). Maybe one-day you will write about how important it is for people to follow the instructions of police officers.
1
You are arguing for a police state. Stop it.
1
The police had some identification of this person, the vehicle in their possession and a license plate upon it...why not just call it in, obtain a warrant for resisting by fleeing, and let others apprehend him in good time? It doesn't make sense that what appears to have started as a routine encounter ratched up so quickly. One wonders if the screening process is as rigorous as it might have been for police candidates? There were so many options here other than the one that was chosen.
4
Another problem: it was only a "routine encounter" for black folks being stopped for driving while black. The statistics are overwhelmingly conclusive for this all over the country.
Few things would cause me to bolt from my new purchased (maybe?) Mercedes. Very weird on many levels. To ditch your car and think you can outrun a young cop? Of course that does not justify being shot. The cop could have easily caught him. The who thing just makes no sense whatsoever.
I agree with mr Blow. This appears to be a definite case of a person being murdered, based on all the facts presented. Charges against the officer are warranted.
Unlike the shooting of Michael Brown, where all the evidence needed to be weighed, before jumping to conclusions. Proof beyond a reasonable doubt is a tenet we must never lose.
Unlike the shooting of Michael Brown, where all the evidence needed to be weighed, before jumping to conclusions. Proof beyond a reasonable doubt is a tenet we must never lose.
What apologists for the officer do not realize, is that Mr. Scott may well have been terrified for his safety. Something the horrible action of the officer substantiated...
5
I'm white. I am thoroughly convinced that were I not white I'd be dead or imprisoned. As it is I am alive and have no criminal record. I consider myself lucky.
I have zero confidence in the police, and cannot fathom those who fail to understand the magnitude and urgency of the problem we face as our taxes support a force that preys on the citizens they're sworn to protect and serve.
It should be evident by now that we're no longer talking about "rogues" or "bad apples." Police officers are not well-paid, they generally have few other career options, and they are highly scrutinized by their superiors, which leads me to believe that they would not be committing acts of brutality unless they were encouraged to do so.
Police work has always been predicated on protecting a dominant ethnicity and class, which is why we need to completely re-invent law enforcement for a diverse society. Fire everyone and start from scratch.
I have zero confidence in the police, and cannot fathom those who fail to understand the magnitude and urgency of the problem we face as our taxes support a force that preys on the citizens they're sworn to protect and serve.
It should be evident by now that we're no longer talking about "rogues" or "bad apples." Police officers are not well-paid, they generally have few other career options, and they are highly scrutinized by their superiors, which leads me to believe that they would not be committing acts of brutality unless they were encouraged to do so.
Police work has always been predicated on protecting a dominant ethnicity and class, which is why we need to completely re-invent law enforcement for a diverse society. Fire everyone and start from scratch.
6
As a young hippie I had some unusual experiences with cops. Most of them, surprisingly, were positive, even though I was frequently in possession of cannabis. I always had one rule, they had the guns and they had the power to lock me up. As a result I always tried to be charming.
My friend Joe, whose skin is black, tells different stories. In his the cops frequently had their guns drawn even though he wore a suit and tie and it was 35 years ago.
My greatest political fear has been a police state. The tyranny of authoritarian excess has always seemed to bubble just beneath the surface of the conservative philosophy, and with the rise of the oligarchs and the unwavering butt kissing of the gop congress I am once more fearful for the future of our democracy.
Add the current militarization of police and the recent rise in racist attitudes and this bodes badly for our Black and Brown Citizens. For all of us, really.
My friend Joe, whose skin is black, tells different stories. In his the cops frequently had their guns drawn even though he wore a suit and tie and it was 35 years ago.
My greatest political fear has been a police state. The tyranny of authoritarian excess has always seemed to bubble just beneath the surface of the conservative philosophy, and with the rise of the oligarchs and the unwavering butt kissing of the gop congress I am once more fearful for the future of our democracy.
Add the current militarization of police and the recent rise in racist attitudes and this bodes badly for our Black and Brown Citizens. For all of us, really.
2
Why did Walter Scott run? It doesn't take a genius to figure that one out. He was behind on child support payments. He knew that if he were arrested for that, he would probably lose his job, thereby compounding his support problems. In circumstances like these, there are no good options. But the fact that white America continues to punish the poor and people of color so severely, then shoot them in the back makes this doubly tragic.
3
Having been a police officer for a while years ago, I can share this with you. The absolute worst thing a "suspect" - and color DOES NOT matter - can do is show disrespect to an officer or officers by running away, guilty or innocent. That act triggers some instinct in the LEO similar to a prey running from a predator. The end result is never good. One can end up dead from shots in the back or laying helpless on the ground while being stomped by multiple deputies while a media helicopter overhead films the act.
A LEO in 'prey mode' is, him or herself, out of control, forced to defend the core belief of every police officer: I am in control and you WILL do as I say.
Only exceptional training, accountability, and control can change that.mour law enforcement/judicial system has a long road ahead to get to that point. Until then, watch as others die at the hands of out-of-control law enforcement officers in prey-mode.
A LEO in 'prey mode' is, him or herself, out of control, forced to defend the core belief of every police officer: I am in control and you WILL do as I say.
Only exceptional training, accountability, and control can change that.mour law enforcement/judicial system has a long road ahead to get to that point. Until then, watch as others die at the hands of out-of-control law enforcement officers in prey-mode.
3
I agree that exceptional training is an essential ingredient for an effective and judicial police organization to remain credible to EVERY community. The most important step in the process is recruiting the best candidates who choose to enter law enforcement as a profession not to gain control or power that he doesn't possess in his everyday life, but rather to share control and power with those in the community that are powerless due to unfair events that occurred in their life stories (i.e. being born to a drug addict, being a victim of child abuse, lacking access to economic access, living in a community without responsible role models, being a victim of systemic racism, etc.) Chiefs of police need to have a mission statement that includes hiring police officers who "get" the community they are entrusted to serve. Not hire police officers who use the shield of their job as a cover-up for their own emotional insecurities and access to the legal means to bully people around that don't have the same power dynamic that their badge affords them. Too many police officers enter the profession to gain control which indicates an emotional neediness and is detrimental to the reputation of the profession as a whole.
1
Not a valid excuse. If that is the case, police officers need a lot more training in restraint. Otherwise they are not serving the public, but their own inflated sense of self.
1
"We simply must improve the way we collect and analyze data - -"
Unfortunately it is the officer that is "collecting and analyzing" data, often in a few seconds.
Unfortunately it is the officer that is "collecting and analyzing" data, often in a few seconds.
1
Protection of your life is solely your responsibility. Don’t do anything stupid to endanger it for no reason.
The cops are the human beings. They might be nervous, stressed out, or upset even before they stopped you. Don’t decrease your chances for survival by being rude, insulting or fleeing.
It has nothing to do with the race. It has to do with the individuals with the guns that the official line of duty puts in the repetitive dangerous situations, and creates chronic posttraumatic stress disorders.
Do you know how many hundreds of civilians, even the entire families with small children, were killed in Afghanistan and Iraq by our troops because those families were traveling in their country in their own cars a little bit too fast for the taste of the stressed-out soldiers.
You bet that there were many African-American soldiers who killed those civilians for driving at the speed limit because their perception at that moment was that their lives were at risk.
When you feel personally threatened, you do the unreasonable and stupid things.
It has nothing to do with the race or racism...
The cops are the human beings. They might be nervous, stressed out, or upset even before they stopped you. Don’t decrease your chances for survival by being rude, insulting or fleeing.
It has nothing to do with the race. It has to do with the individuals with the guns that the official line of duty puts in the repetitive dangerous situations, and creates chronic posttraumatic stress disorders.
Do you know how many hundreds of civilians, even the entire families with small children, were killed in Afghanistan and Iraq by our troops because those families were traveling in their country in their own cars a little bit too fast for the taste of the stressed-out soldiers.
You bet that there were many African-American soldiers who killed those civilians for driving at the speed limit because their perception at that moment was that their lives were at risk.
When you feel personally threatened, you do the unreasonable and stupid things.
It has nothing to do with the race or racism...
2
"When you feel personally threatened, you do the unreasonable and stupid things." Maybe you run?
Still no excuse for shooting someone in the back.
Still no excuse for shooting someone in the back.
Do u generally feel "personally threatened," by peple running away from you as fast as they possibly can?
Unlike Charles Blow, it is more complicated and nuanced then the partisan "haters" like to make this sad unfortunate story.
The real criminal here is the left/liberal media that jumps to convict any member of society that attempts to uphold and protect the overall citizenry of this country(police,fire,military)!
You ought to be ashamed at the hollowing out of a once great newspaper!
The real criminal here is the left/liberal media that jumps to convict any member of society that attempts to uphold and protect the overall citizenry of this country(police,fire,military)!
You ought to be ashamed at the hollowing out of a once great newspaper!
In the emerging videos I am most disturbed by the replication of actions taken by the police. They all pile on the suspect and beat him after he is down. There is a malay of violence. It is as if they are trained to keep going until the person is dead. Kicking the head, kicking the groin while the suspects hands are cuffed and he is completely immobilized seems to be routine.
The number one priority of the police should be to save lives and prevent violence. That should apply to all lives.
The number one priority of the police should be to save lives and prevent violence. That should apply to all lives.
2
In a dictatorship, anyone defying their authority is by all rights presumed dead on the spot for doing so. All Mr. Scott did was the same thing to a cop . . . . Is that such an unfathomable connection to make?
I see yet another elephant in the room.
Perhaps if cops weren't so afraid that anyone and everyone they encounter might be armed and therefore a threat, they (the cops) might not be so quick to shoot. This is an enormous hypothetical, I realize. And impossible to test in the US, I also realize (though we could look at other countries where fewer people die by gunshot and wonder why that is).
.And it does not in any way excuse the undeniable likelihood that a black person is far more likely to be killed while unarmed than a white person is whether armed or not.
However, if we the people didn't have so many guns, the police would lose one of their main excuses for using their own guns.
Perhaps if cops weren't so afraid that anyone and everyone they encounter might be armed and therefore a threat, they (the cops) might not be so quick to shoot. This is an enormous hypothetical, I realize. And impossible to test in the US, I also realize (though we could look at other countries where fewer people die by gunshot and wonder why that is).
.And it does not in any way excuse the undeniable likelihood that a black person is far more likely to be killed while unarmed than a white person is whether armed or not.
However, if we the people didn't have so many guns, the police would lose one of their main excuses for using their own guns.
2
Charles makes sense to me.
I can see his point, especially in the case of a fleeing teenager. They are often fical and scared while growing up. Adults are not fical, particularly, but they are scared -- especially in light of recent known incidents.
Particularily what is important in this case is deliberate murder -- the crimininal intent expressed by eight shots.
I can see his point, especially in the case of a fleeing teenager. They are often fical and scared while growing up. Adults are not fical, particularly, but they are scared -- especially in light of recent known incidents.
Particularily what is important in this case is deliberate murder -- the crimininal intent expressed by eight shots.
1
Just imagine- if there were no guns, Walter Scott would still be alive.
2
An interesting question if all the facts that have come to light so far and the video evidence holds up will be what is the appropriate consequence of the officer's actions? Dismissal from his job is not enough. Does this cross the fence to being effectively murder? Should the officer get the death penalty? Would such a verdict send an appropriate message?
After all, the attitude of the officer that is present in many of these shootings is that "criminals" lives have little or no value. Criminals may be simple petty thieves rather than murderers, but there seems to be little distinction for some.
We need to get back to the notion of equivalency. The amount of force used should be commensurate to the danger to the officer and society. Blow's son dealt with a similar issue when a campus cop pulled a gun because he was suspected of property theft. Clearly this was a mismatch that is common as many cops seem to think they are in the Wild West. The corollary would be the consequences for the mistaken officer should be commensurate with his actions.
After all, the attitude of the officer that is present in many of these shootings is that "criminals" lives have little or no value. Criminals may be simple petty thieves rather than murderers, but there seems to be little distinction for some.
We need to get back to the notion of equivalency. The amount of force used should be commensurate to the danger to the officer and society. Blow's son dealt with a similar issue when a campus cop pulled a gun because he was suspected of property theft. Clearly this was a mismatch that is common as many cops seem to think they are in the Wild West. The corollary would be the consequences for the mistaken officer should be commensurate with his actions.
3
It's about us/them. Always has been and always will be.
Affiliation with a "tribe" has been a critical component of evolutionary survival for eons and, though it may no longer be an evolutionary advantage for a society where tribal violence is so much more violent and destructive than it was in the past (to the point of SELF-destruction), it's far too powerfully embedded in our hard-wiring to change.
From there, it's a small step to so de-humanize the "other" tribe's members that it becomes easy not only to brutalize them but to kill them.
And we think ourselves creatures of reason.
Affiliation with a "tribe" has been a critical component of evolutionary survival for eons and, though it may no longer be an evolutionary advantage for a society where tribal violence is so much more violent and destructive than it was in the past (to the point of SELF-destruction), it's far too powerfully embedded in our hard-wiring to change.
From there, it's a small step to so de-humanize the "other" tribe's members that it becomes easy not only to brutalize them but to kill them.
And we think ourselves creatures of reason.
3
Here's what I don't get: why is anybody aupporting cops who can't get the basics of police procedure right, or even close to right?
One cop lets a big, athletic guy who he believes may be guilty of a violent assault waltz right up to his cruiser, himself seated, belted in, his gun inaccessible. Another drives up far too close to what he believes to be an armed suspect with his probationary officer on that side of the car, and the rookie jumps out and starts shooting before there's time to see what's going on. And now, some clown stops a guy, shoots him in the back when he starts running, and leaves him cuffed and bleeding out on the ground.
Beyond themoral implications: what's with the pathetic police procedure?
One cop lets a big, athletic guy who he believes may be guilty of a violent assault waltz right up to his cruiser, himself seated, belted in, his gun inaccessible. Another drives up far too close to what he believes to be an armed suspect with his probationary officer on that side of the car, and the rookie jumps out and starts shooting before there's time to see what's going on. And now, some clown stops a guy, shoots him in the back when he starts running, and leaves him cuffed and bleeding out on the ground.
Beyond themoral implications: what's with the pathetic police procedure?
5
Mr. Blow seems to be ignoring the fact that the system worked. The policeman shot an unarmed fleeing man and has been arrested for murder. What more does he want? There appears to be no justification for shooting the fleeing man. Quite different from the Michael Brown case. Of course there won't be any big protests because the system worked. The system also worked in Furgeson.
4
I think you're missing the point. The system isn't working. A man is dead. If the system worked, the cop wouldn't have shot him in the back. This is also true in Ferguson.
1
Are you actually as ignorant as you sound, Bill. If "the system worked" Mr. Scott would not be dead, and the officer would not be on trial for murder. Clearly "the system" is broken.
1
Maybe Mr. Blow would prefer that Mr. Scott not be dead -- that might be a better way to say 'the system worked.'
What Mr. Blow so brilliantly describes is typical "second wave" journalism, when the initial reporting of disturbing facts--especially those exposing official misconduct and racism--gives way to an artful corrective narrative designed to protect public officials and to shield armed enforcers from consequences.
This is why propagandists create the Super Enemy.
It's creepily similar to what we've always done to enemies in war, from the villainous Hun of WWI to the Islamists whose abuse at Abu Ghraib could be shrugged off--as were our drone attacks on civilians and livestock and journalists--under the fog of hair-raising tales about barbarous Islam
Clearly there are elements in the US national press who regard black men, women and children as an internal enemy, a sort of racial fifth column to whom the rules of ordinary humanity, not to mention citizenships and common decency, need not apply.
Consider the second wave attacks on Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown, rewritten as "thugs" whose criminality meant they "deserved" their cruel, lonely, violent deaths The smears even encompassed their families.
But then, it also happened following the killings of the child Tamir Rice, gunned down in an Ohio playground; and John Crawford, a Walmart shopper in Beavercreek, Ohio; and Eric Garner, a Staten Island husband, father, and veteran of the mean streets. Child and man alike, all were swiftly thuggified.
What's going on here is invidious and wrong, it cries out for justice.
This is why propagandists create the Super Enemy.
It's creepily similar to what we've always done to enemies in war, from the villainous Hun of WWI to the Islamists whose abuse at Abu Ghraib could be shrugged off--as were our drone attacks on civilians and livestock and journalists--under the fog of hair-raising tales about barbarous Islam
Clearly there are elements in the US national press who regard black men, women and children as an internal enemy, a sort of racial fifth column to whom the rules of ordinary humanity, not to mention citizenships and common decency, need not apply.
Consider the second wave attacks on Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown, rewritten as "thugs" whose criminality meant they "deserved" their cruel, lonely, violent deaths The smears even encompassed their families.
But then, it also happened following the killings of the child Tamir Rice, gunned down in an Ohio playground; and John Crawford, a Walmart shopper in Beavercreek, Ohio; and Eric Garner, a Staten Island husband, father, and veteran of the mean streets. Child and man alike, all were swiftly thuggified.
What's going on here is invidious and wrong, it cries out for justice.
5
When a tragedy happens, people want to know WHY it happened. Would you have the press call off the "second wave" of information so the victims can become deified? I believe it is better to report new information and let the reader make his or her own conclusions.
"As if their race was the deciding factor in the cops being kept on restricted duty for 16 months after a backfire mistaken for a gunshot and an ensuing cross-town chase led to police firing nearly as many shots at the unarmed Melissa Williams and Timothy Russell as were unleashed upon Bonnie and Clyde in their famous final shootout—leaving Melissa with 24 gunshot wounds to Bonnie’s 23 and Timothy with 23 to Clyde’s 25."
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/02/the-cleveland-cops-who-...
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/02/the-cleveland-cops-who-...
Unless the video is a fake, the shooting of Walter Scott was murder. It is not remotely likely that the video is a fake, so the only logical conclusion is that Mr Scott was shot dead in cold blood.
In today's age of personal video capabilities, we are seeing far too much visual evidence of police behavior that is arrogant, bullying and ready to shoot people for the slightest reason. This has to change and the only way it will change is to hold the cops who commit these crimes accountable for their actions. Not just the murders like that of Walter Scott, but also for the actions of cops like the the NYC detective who vented his rage at the taxi driver recently.
Quite frankly, they remind me of the news accounts of nazis who routinely treated Russians, Jews, gypsies and any occupied territories as lesser human beings. They remind me of the ISIS murderers who believe themselves above their captives. There just is zero room in America for cops such as these.
Good cops do not indulge in such actions and need to hold the bad cops accountable by changing the culture of the blue wall of silence. Failure to do so will only serve to undermine the good work that many of them do on our behalf.
In today's age of personal video capabilities, we are seeing far too much visual evidence of police behavior that is arrogant, bullying and ready to shoot people for the slightest reason. This has to change and the only way it will change is to hold the cops who commit these crimes accountable for their actions. Not just the murders like that of Walter Scott, but also for the actions of cops like the the NYC detective who vented his rage at the taxi driver recently.
Quite frankly, they remind me of the news accounts of nazis who routinely treated Russians, Jews, gypsies and any occupied territories as lesser human beings. They remind me of the ISIS murderers who believe themselves above their captives. There just is zero room in America for cops such as these.
Good cops do not indulge in such actions and need to hold the bad cops accountable by changing the culture of the blue wall of silence. Failure to do so will only serve to undermine the good work that many of them do on our behalf.
5
This is one of the most compelling anti-abortion paragraphs I have ever read, "A life is the most precious, most valuable thing in creation. It cannot be casually ended. It cannot be callously taken. It must always be honored and protected, and the person living it needn’t be perfect; he or she is human." Well done!
1
It is also an argument for pro-choice. That a woman needs to be in control of what happens to her body, for she is precious, valuable, and deserving of protection. Another point to the article of convenience to our left is that black men run from the police because they know that their life is not precious, valuable and deserving of protection in the eyes of the police. There are so many ways to meet your maker. Maybe we can try to work on the unnecessary ones by disposing of degrees of deservedness.
2
Mandatory police cameras to be worn at all times.
1
Know how to operate the video on your cell phone!
Unfortunately racism runs deep and wide in this country still. The publicized events of the past several years including the unprecedented disrespect of the President serve to demonstrate this only too clearly.
8
"For me, there is only one issue in the Walter Scott case: he is dead, and that cannot be undone."
Nothing is more final than death. And that is why this particular issue which offers a window into the larger issues is even more important. There are at least two broad policy issues that emerge from the spate of killings by police officers.
First, our police force has morphed into an army/SWAT team over the past few years. This is, in part, fueled by the army disposing off their excess weapons to local police forces. Why else did some local police units buy armored tanks, flame throwers, or grenade launchers? This makes me wonder if the police believe they are at war with the citizens they are tasked with protecting.
Second, there is no reason for stopping a car with a broken tail light or dated inspection sticker. These are not even moving violations like speeding or driving with a hanging fender or flat tire. Why not note that registration and issue a ticket and ask it be paid in 30 days? There is no need for a cop to confront a driver such infractions.ice
Sadly, as many others have noted in their comments, being poor or black significantly increases the odds of these unwarranted outcomes.So even as the justice system runs its course in determining what to do with Officer Slager, I urge that we turn our attention to adopting these and other significant policy changes. Ban the police from buying equipment meant for an army.
Nothing is more final than death. And that is why this particular issue which offers a window into the larger issues is even more important. There are at least two broad policy issues that emerge from the spate of killings by police officers.
First, our police force has morphed into an army/SWAT team over the past few years. This is, in part, fueled by the army disposing off their excess weapons to local police forces. Why else did some local police units buy armored tanks, flame throwers, or grenade launchers? This makes me wonder if the police believe they are at war with the citizens they are tasked with protecting.
Second, there is no reason for stopping a car with a broken tail light or dated inspection sticker. These are not even moving violations like speeding or driving with a hanging fender or flat tire. Why not note that registration and issue a ticket and ask it be paid in 30 days? There is no need for a cop to confront a driver such infractions.ice
Sadly, as many others have noted in their comments, being poor or black significantly increases the odds of these unwarranted outcomes.So even as the justice system runs its course in determining what to do with Officer Slager, I urge that we turn our attention to adopting these and other significant policy changes. Ban the police from buying equipment meant for an army.
4
The responses reflect a surprising number of racist readers, police supremacists, and individuals who are apparently unable to view the tape and conclude that a Black man was shot multiple times and killed by a white man....and that the Black man's death was not important. Killing any citizen is important. Policemen never have the right to kill. Policemen can only kill out of necessity. Policemen can never choose to kill. All policemen must be required to wear cameras to assure us all that they are acting in our behalf. Policemen who cannot work with that kind of scrutiny should resign or be fired. Policemen have a very difficult job and they risk their lives to protect us. We cannot deny policemen the gratitude they earn for protecting us, nor can we fail to help policemen with every tool at our disposal to guarantee that only competent professionals share their deserved reputation.
What I find obscene is the continuous television looping of Scott's death. It must be beyond painful for the family of Scott to have his death replayed over and over. Equally obscene is the continuous mealy-mouthing over his killing by those who seek to rationalize or even justify the manifestly poisonous methods of policing black men. Predictably, the clamor over Scott's death will recede. Until the next video emerges. The images of black men being garroted, shot, tasered, and otherwise abused by law-enforcement has morphed into a form of gruesome mass entertainment. We have seen the enemy, and they are us.
52
Yesterday in Tulsa, Oklahoma a 44 year old Black man Eric Harris was shot and killed by "accident" while fleeing from a white 73 year old civilian police volunteer involved in a sting incident with several cops.
An Oscar Grant and Akai Gurley rerun.
Timothy McVeigh was arrested alive and well.
An Oscar Grant and Akai Gurley rerun.
Timothy McVeigh was arrested alive and well.
Now how do “we” change ourselves as a society?
What are the factors that make us who we are?
How are our opinions shaped?
What is it about our culture that shapes us to act and think the way we do?
How do we create a national dialogue to respond to these questions?
What are the factors that make us who we are?
How are our opinions shaped?
What is it about our culture that shapes us to act and think the way we do?
How do we create a national dialogue to respond to these questions?
1
Your best column yet. I have been sickened by hearing, even on the Diane Rehm show, journalists attempting to construct scenarios in which this shooting would be justified, as if the missing few moments of the incident could meaningfully contradict what we can see with our own eyes: a man shooting an unarmed fleeing man in the back.
3
As a white man, I'm statistically more likely to be shot by a black cop than vice versa.
So the black community can be quiet. I deal in math and statistical certainty, not misguided hysteria.
Violence begets violence, and as 6% of the population committing over 50% of violent crimes, black males have no one else to blame. Stand back and think for a minute how out of control that really is. 6% for over 50%. It's really scary.
So the black community can be quiet. I deal in math and statistical certainty, not misguided hysteria.
Violence begets violence, and as 6% of the population committing over 50% of violent crimes, black males have no one else to blame. Stand back and think for a minute how out of control that really is. 6% for over 50%. It's really scary.
2
Sorry Jackson, but you are most certainly dealing in "misguided hysteria." Your supposed "statistics" regarding violence committed by black males has no bearing on the question of whether police should be allowed to execute an unarmed, fleeing, suspect. Thanks, however, for outing yourself as an unabashed racist.
1
Yet you did not post the statistics you are relying on to make your point.
Last month, 34 Black men were killed by police officers /115 persons killed in March.
You guys looove rates when it's about welfare and food stamps but when it's about Blacks killed by police, it's all about statistics.
And it's very telling that you are equating the actions of criminals to those of the police (may I remind you that the 6% you are talking about are criminals).
Deflection, it is all you have when the you cannot ignore the facts.
Last month, 34 Black men were killed by police officers /115 persons killed in March.
You guys looove rates when it's about welfare and food stamps but when it's about Blacks killed by police, it's all about statistics.
And it's very telling that you are equating the actions of criminals to those of the police (may I remind you that the 6% you are talking about are criminals).
Deflection, it is all you have when the you cannot ignore the facts.
As an individual who performs statistical analyses, I am curious where you get the data that underpins your statements. Since the Dallas police is lagging behind in terms of racial composition, your statement suggests that there are many more black officers shooting whites.
Additionally, getting shot at and being shot at 8 times and struck several times in the back while running away, is substantially different.
Additionally, getting shot at and being shot at 8 times and struck several times in the back while running away, is substantially different.
I am white and have my own consulting business....Ten years ago I was stopped for going 10 miles over the speed limit by a state police officer who handcuffed me for the simple reason that I asked a couple of questions and did not show the proper respect...yes, police need to be selected and trained to focus on post arrest treatment...there is a racial issue but there also is a public treatment issue...my two cents..9/11 has changed the psychology of policing...don't trust anyone misdeamenor to felony--be preemptive vs. respectful treatment of a prisoner or perpetrator....what have we turned into?
12
No one is saying that Walter Scott deserved to be killed. However, the investigation requires asking certain questions in order to learn what really happened. It seems that Charles Blow fears two things:
1) that the actual circumstances of the shooting involve nuances and issues that go against the "white police kill innocent black men" narrative, and
2) that, just like other high profile incidents (e.g. Michael Brown), the "innocent victim" story is a complete lie, and that the shooting might be justified. Highly unlikely in this case, but an investigation must be conducted.
In the end, Charles Blow fears objectivity and the truth because they prevent him from advancing his agenda.
1) that the actual circumstances of the shooting involve nuances and issues that go against the "white police kill innocent black men" narrative, and
2) that, just like other high profile incidents (e.g. Michael Brown), the "innocent victim" story is a complete lie, and that the shooting might be justified. Highly unlikely in this case, but an investigation must be conducted.
In the end, Charles Blow fears objectivity and the truth because they prevent him from advancing his agenda.
4
Why is this "agenda" seen as exclusively Mr. Blow's? That an unarmed individual should not be shot eight times from behind by an officer of the law? That evidence should not be planted? That this happens mostly to people of color? Shouldn't this be on all of our agendas? Suggesting that this is Mr. Blow's agenda is in itself racist.
The cop had Mr. Scott's driver's license; Scott could have been picked up later.
There was no reason for shooting.
There was no reason for shooting.
"Open Carry" laws have spread across America. From Oregon to Utah and to Georgia and elsewhere, men appear in public armed with assault rifles. They have the support of the NRA and various members of Congress. We've had a case of open-carry protest in a public park; ditto at an Obama protest rally. How many such armed protesters have been shot by police? None--they're all White.
I defy any of the heroes of open-carry to black their faces and then go tote their weapons in public.
I defy any of the heroes of open-carry to black their faces and then go tote their weapons in public.
16
Since moving to the South 8 years ago after living all of my life up north, one of the biggest things I've noticed is the way the cops act differently down here. Up north for the most part, cops seem to know their boundaries and do not use intimidation and fear as a tactic. They are not openly walking the streets with their guns clearly visible as a way to sow fear among the populace.
It's a different story down South. From everything I've seen, from Georgia to South Carolina, Alabama and Tennessee, police are much more militaristic and aggressive in their approach. They set up very aggressive speed traps on the highways, with their police cars facing the interstates. They more readily stop people for minor offenses, such as J-walking. There is definitely more of a Police State feel down here. I'm also wondering if there's any correlation between these Republican-run states and the way police act in these states.
I am white and I'm sure I'm not the only white person in the South who feels this way. I myself have been stopped by cops in Atlanta and yelled at for no reason. I honked at someone because he attempted to go around me in a left turn lane because I wasn't moving quick enough. The cop actually stopped me and told me I should never honk at anyone because that would be a good way to get myself killed. Say what??
It's a different story down South. From everything I've seen, from Georgia to South Carolina, Alabama and Tennessee, police are much more militaristic and aggressive in their approach. They set up very aggressive speed traps on the highways, with their police cars facing the interstates. They more readily stop people for minor offenses, such as J-walking. There is definitely more of a Police State feel down here. I'm also wondering if there's any correlation between these Republican-run states and the way police act in these states.
I am white and I'm sure I'm not the only white person in the South who feels this way. I myself have been stopped by cops in Atlanta and yelled at for no reason. I honked at someone because he attempted to go around me in a left turn lane because I wasn't moving quick enough. The cop actually stopped me and told me I should never honk at anyone because that would be a good way to get myself killed. Say what??
5
The video of the murder of Walter Scott was alarming. What could Mr. Scott have possibly done to warrant being shot down with 8 bullets in his back?
But just as alarming was the behavior of other North Charleston police officers at the scene of Mr. Scott's murder. This was not just the crime of one police officer, it appears to have been a conspiracy to cover up the murder.
Even more troubling is this police conspiracy to hide the truth is not limited to North Charleston. In most every instance of police murder there is a rallying of other officers to protect their own and deny the truth. How can we have any confidence in police who place themselves above the law?
But just as alarming was the behavior of other North Charleston police officers at the scene of Mr. Scott's murder. This was not just the crime of one police officer, it appears to have been a conspiracy to cover up the murder.
Even more troubling is this police conspiracy to hide the truth is not limited to North Charleston. In most every instance of police murder there is a rallying of other officers to protect their own and deny the truth. How can we have any confidence in police who place themselves above the law?
7
Why couldn't a 37 year old policemen out run a 50 year old man? Or his partner? He ran from the cops because cops kill black man. If he had not run, we would not have this tape.
1
"Death is not the appropriate punishment for disobedience." Thank you, Mr. Blow, for this quotation and this essay. It draws the bright line that needs to be drawn. No what ifs, maybes, or should haves. A man was running away. He was most likely disobeying a police order to stay put. For that, the punishment should NOT be death.
I must say the death of Mr. Scott at the hands of a police officer has horrified me like no other. In large part, that is because there is a video of the actual event. But I keep asking myself, "How many other times has this happened this year, last year, the last decade, in the last 50 years, etc.?" No, sir. The punishment for disobedience should NOT be death. There can be no equivocation on this.
I must say the death of Mr. Scott at the hands of a police officer has horrified me like no other. In large part, that is because there is a video of the actual event. But I keep asking myself, "How many other times has this happened this year, last year, the last decade, in the last 50 years, etc.?" No, sir. The punishment for disobedience should NOT be death. There can be no equivocation on this.
6
Justice for all needs to come back as a motto. Scott ran, in all probability, to avoid debtors prison. He had been jailed twice before for being in arrears of his child support payments. He had just gotten hired permanently in a new job. The system is stacked against poor people in states that lock people up for debts. Scott did not deserve to be shot for running and he should not have faced jail time for a broken tail light. The environment led to this shooting, and that allowed police to lie, all of the police who showed up lied about giving aide, is part of a broader disdain for poor people, and for people of color that goes from the police to the justice department and all the way up to the legislature.
6
From what I can see, there was absolutely no excuse for the police officer's actions. He should, and likely will pay a stiff price. I guess I must disagree with the assertion that asking why the person ran is somehow off base. It is a very logical question that in no way is putting Walter Scott on trial. If you cannot analyze a situation, how can you learn from it? I also would like to know what in the world is going on with police training? Just because a scared person runs, there is no reason legally or morally to shoot them.
7
Walter Scott should not have died, or even been shot at, but to say that he had no bearing on the outcome simply means you don't understand how the world works.
Doing stupid things with police officers leads to bad outcomes, whether you are black, or not (witness the beatings videotaped in California). This is reality, which I realize will not be popular on the NY Times comment board.
Doing stupid things with police officers leads to bad outcomes, whether you are black, or not (witness the beatings videotaped in California). This is reality, which I realize will not be popular on the NY Times comment board.
6
Police officers committing illegal acts also lead to bad outcomes. Only one person involved in this incident had the power to take a life, and the belief that he could get away with it. That is the only issue up for discussion here.
3
A reality that must not be acceptable, or lead to blaming the victim.
1
You have to admit there is something wrong with a society that easily convicts a black man for killing dogs and no one has any tendency to blame the dogs for being killed. But when the black man gets killed... well wait a minute lets assess the circumstances first.
5
Of course, Mr. Scott should not have run for any number of reasons -- but not because he should have anticipated being shot in the back for doing so.
Mr. Scott did not appear to be a particularly fast runner. Yet Officer Slager, who was obviously intent on not letting Mr. Scott get away, made no attempt to run Mr. Scott down. Too much effort involved?
Mr. Scott did not appear to be a particularly fast runner. Yet Officer Slager, who was obviously intent on not letting Mr. Scott get away, made no attempt to run Mr. Scott down. Too much effort involved?
12
Unfortunately, many white people live in a state of denial when it comes to racism. One part of the country proudly promotes racism, and uses every political means available to keep blacks from achieving even the basic right to vote. A major political party ( republicans) uses race ( and gender and religion etc.) to further widen the divides between blacks and whites.
The cases in NYC and now South Carolina exemplify the racism. Two unarmed black men essentially murdered on video and only cop one goes to trial. And that at the tip of the iceberg.
Justice in the country is widely accepted as being related to wealth and power.
Money buys "justice", like every other commodity. It just costs more at times.
The statistical views of the police force are hardly surprising. Whites are little affected by police behavior outside of traffic enforcement. And when they are otherwise interacting with the police, even resisting them, they usually aren't choked to death or shot in the back. White cops are comfortable with white crime; they understand the white mentality.
Higher crime rates among blacks seems to have created certain expectations among the police. namely that one "size fits all", and their civilian counterparts seem more than accepting,especially in the confederacy.
It will be interesting to see if confederate justice can "whitewash" this latest killing as well the SI,NY grand jury did in the Garner case.
The cases in NYC and now South Carolina exemplify the racism. Two unarmed black men essentially murdered on video and only cop one goes to trial. And that at the tip of the iceberg.
Justice in the country is widely accepted as being related to wealth and power.
Money buys "justice", like every other commodity. It just costs more at times.
The statistical views of the police force are hardly surprising. Whites are little affected by police behavior outside of traffic enforcement. And when they are otherwise interacting with the police, even resisting them, they usually aren't choked to death or shot in the back. White cops are comfortable with white crime; they understand the white mentality.
Higher crime rates among blacks seems to have created certain expectations among the police. namely that one "size fits all", and their civilian counterparts seem more than accepting,especially in the confederacy.
It will be interesting to see if confederate justice can "whitewash" this latest killing as well the SI,NY grand jury did in the Garner case.
5
I don't think anyone would dispute that this killing is clearly unjustified but acknowledging the simple logic that, when interacting with law enforcement submission is the only appropriate course of action, is even remotely controversial. The notion that certain segments of the population should be allowed more latitude in dealing with the authorities because of some historical injustice is obviously and absurdly dangerous.
6
The question is: how come every time this happens we have to tell black people over, over, and over a) never run from a cop, b) this is all Your Community's fault?
Why aren't we telling cops, a) stop shooting unarmed citizens in the back, b) y'all need to straighten out thepolice community?
Why aren't we telling cops, a) stop shooting unarmed citizens in the back, b) y'all need to straighten out thepolice community?
Too bad there wasn't video of this one and countless other killings:
The officers claim the scuffle began when Dorismond became angry after they propositioned him, loudly declaring he was not a drug dealer. They state he threw a punch at a second officer and with his friend, Kevin Kaiser, began attacking him. Officer Vasquez said he came to his partner's aid, hearing one of the men yelling "Get his gun!", drew his weapon and identified himself as a police officer. He claimed Dorismond grabbed the gun, causing it to discharge into his chest.
History repeats itself:
Rudy Giulian'si release of Dorismond's sealed juvenile delinquency record immediately after the shooting raised the ire of the African-American community as well as critics of the Mayor. Giuliani pointed out that he only wanted to show that Dorismond was "no altar boy."
The officers claim the scuffle began when Dorismond became angry after they propositioned him, loudly declaring he was not a drug dealer. They state he threw a punch at a second officer and with his friend, Kevin Kaiser, began attacking him. Officer Vasquez said he came to his partner's aid, hearing one of the men yelling "Get his gun!", drew his weapon and identified himself as a police officer. He claimed Dorismond grabbed the gun, causing it to discharge into his chest.
History repeats itself:
Rudy Giulian'si release of Dorismond's sealed juvenile delinquency record immediately after the shooting raised the ire of the African-American community as well as critics of the Mayor. Giuliani pointed out that he only wanted to show that Dorismond was "no altar boy."
3
Mr. Scott should not have run away but that is not the issue.
Whether he panicked, feared arrest, was late for a date or had to go to the bathroom, there is no excuse for cold blooded murder by the police.
I'm a middle-aged, white, conservative guy who has foolishly believed the police exist to serve and protect everyone. What was done to Mr. Scott has opened my eyes.
That citizens are targeted by our government, and that's who the police are, is disturbing beyond words.
Whether he panicked, feared arrest, was late for a date or had to go to the bathroom, there is no excuse for cold blooded murder by the police.
I'm a middle-aged, white, conservative guy who has foolishly believed the police exist to serve and protect everyone. What was done to Mr. Scott has opened my eyes.
That citizens are targeted by our government, and that's who the police are, is disturbing beyond words.
19
Hmmm. Is the statement that Walter Scott shouldn't have run really the same as saying it was OK for the officer to shoot him? I think they are too separate things. Walter Scott should not have run AND the officer should not have shot him when he did. What's wrong with having two ideas in ones head at once? Mr Blow seems to be trying to limit what is acceptable in these discussions by deeming certain aspects of the discussion as out-of-bounds. I think that's counter productive. Limiting conversations is no way to find solutions.
15
Blow's point is that once you shoot a fleeing man who isn't a threat repeatedly in the back--especially if you then a) lie about his having taken a weapon from you, and b) lie about providing CPR--it's pretty much irrelevant why the idiot was running.
So if people put their focus on why he was running rather than what looks a lot like cold-blooded murder...one wonders why.
So if people put their focus on why he was running rather than what looks a lot like cold-blooded murder...one wonders why.
"A most dishonorable way"? What is this? The old west? All of these killings occur in a most dishonorable way.
The man killed in Bridgeton, NJ? Dishonorable. He was unarmed and literally had his hands up. Tamir Rice? Dishonorable. He Held only a toy gun and was at play. John Crawford? Shot down while talking on the phone holding a toy gun in store that sold the toy, in an open carry state. Akai Gurley? Shot while walking down the stairs by a nervous cop, who then called his union while Gurley's life ebbed away.
The fact that Scott was shot in the back is no worse than any of the other executions of black men we've become conscious of as being unexplainable and shocking. Dead is dead. There is no honor in dying for nothing, ever.
What's disturbing to me is the easy way that the white reporter at CNN asked a white local reporter about Scott's "background" and the reporter, without missing a beat, recited his arrest history. Aren't his four kids and great family background?
Honor is never involved in these executions by cop. Shot in the back, shot in the face. It's all the same.
The man killed in Bridgeton, NJ? Dishonorable. He was unarmed and literally had his hands up. Tamir Rice? Dishonorable. He Held only a toy gun and was at play. John Crawford? Shot down while talking on the phone holding a toy gun in store that sold the toy, in an open carry state. Akai Gurley? Shot while walking down the stairs by a nervous cop, who then called his union while Gurley's life ebbed away.
The fact that Scott was shot in the back is no worse than any of the other executions of black men we've become conscious of as being unexplainable and shocking. Dead is dead. There is no honor in dying for nothing, ever.
What's disturbing to me is the easy way that the white reporter at CNN asked a white local reporter about Scott's "background" and the reporter, without missing a beat, recited his arrest history. Aren't his four kids and great family background?
Honor is never involved in these executions by cop. Shot in the back, shot in the face. It's all the same.
6
Well said in truest "Black excuse" fashion. The fact is undeniable and once more lost on the Black Excuse complex: if Mr. Scott had not run, he would be alive today. But this is not to be mentioned in the discussion of racism and law enforcement.
Always missing in the Black perspective . . . responsibility. Was Mr. Scott responsible for his death? Of course not. Could HIS actions have prevented it? Of course.
Time and time again we hear of a clash between the Black person and the cop turning bad. There's that pesky old Mr Reality that so confuses the Enlightened liberal. It is as if they don't understand that if you roll dice enough they will eventually come up craps.
The black culture and community will be on its way to a better and safer life when the Blows of the world have the guts and good sense to bring themselves to pen an Op Ed article titled: "Why Mr Scott was responsible for his own death."
Always missing in the Black perspective . . . responsibility. Was Mr. Scott responsible for his death? Of course not. Could HIS actions have prevented it? Of course.
Time and time again we hear of a clash between the Black person and the cop turning bad. There's that pesky old Mr Reality that so confuses the Enlightened liberal. It is as if they don't understand that if you roll dice enough they will eventually come up craps.
The black culture and community will be on its way to a better and safer life when the Blows of the world have the guts and good sense to bring themselves to pen an Op Ed article titled: "Why Mr Scott was responsible for his own death."
4
Beyond admiring the willingness to lecture "the black community," yet again, it remains stunning to see running away equated with shooting an unarmed man eight times in the back.
But let me lecture the white community: what is it with you people and your cops? When do you plan to learn proper police procedure, to say nothing of learning that one does not leave a badly-injured, bleeding man handcuffed on the ground and then lie about it?
But let me lecture the white community: what is it with you people and your cops? When do you plan to learn proper police procedure, to say nothing of learning that one does not leave a badly-injured, bleeding man handcuffed on the ground and then lie about it?
2
If this truly reflects who you are then you are not a very humane human. I feel very sorry for you. He WAS NOT responsible for his own death. Officer Slater murdered Mr. Scott in cold blood.
1
I agree with you, Bob. Anyone who is having an encounter with police should comport themselves in a way that they emerge safely when all is said and done. Running away just screams "I'm guilty of ------(fill in the blank." This shouldn't be a difficult concept to teach. And we need cameras on the public as much as on the police.
P.S. I'm a white liberal from a blue state.
P.S. I'm a white liberal from a blue state.
Mr Blow needs some basic sentential logic
The two premises are joined with a conjunction - that means they both have to be true for the resultant state to be true: P1 - Scott fled from a lawful stop and P2 - The officer shot a fleeing suspect.
Regrettably but logically - either of the two could have been negated for a better outcome.
The two premises are joined with a conjunction - that means they both have to be true for the resultant state to be true: P1 - Scott fled from a lawful stop and P2 - The officer shot a fleeing suspect.
Regrettably but logically - either of the two could have been negated for a better outcome.
1
If we're going to get all logic, it might be worth noting that the two acts are not commensurate in terms of effect or moral consequence, because the last I checked, running away does not kill anybody.
This also just in from the Amazing World of Logic: if you don't want to run the guy down, waiting to pick him up until you've got help doesn't kill anybody either.
This also just in from the Amazing World of Logic: if you don't want to run the guy down, waiting to pick him up until you've got help doesn't kill anybody either.
1
I'm writing this as I watch yet another video on the morning news - Eric Harris "mistakenly shot" by a 73 yr old retired man assisting a cop. Again, I am watching a man bleed to death with no aid rendered. Where is the rush to stop bleeding, call 911, get a first aid kit.
There is none. Cuffing is done. but no aid.
This is the part that is clearly murder. The failure to help an injured human being,
Disgusting. And I don't care if the shooting was "accidental" or "horrible mistake". It does not excuse the failure to render aid in these cases.
It must stop.
There is none. Cuffing is done. but no aid.
This is the part that is clearly murder. The failure to help an injured human being,
Disgusting. And I don't care if the shooting was "accidental" or "horrible mistake". It does not excuse the failure to render aid in these cases.
It must stop.
8
"These are simply occupational conditions of being an officer — an admittedly tough job that few of us would sign up to do.”
It’s a line that inevitably appears in every police misconduct story.
And when you use it, you become part of the problem that you trying address.
Just stop it.
It’s a line that inevitably appears in every police misconduct story.
And when you use it, you become part of the problem that you trying address.
Just stop it.
4
Cops are necessary. So is Justice.
2
The irresponsible police officer shot a man in the back. There is no justification for that. Running or not, there are rules that guide police enforcement -- and no one should die because of a police officer's loss of control in a situation that was so easily rectified.
S. Carolina's jurisprudence did the right thing by immediately arresting the officer and then firing him.
S. Carolina's jurisprudence did the right thing by immediately arresting the officer and then firing him.
9
Over the years this is what I've learned when dealing with the police. Do not expect them to do anything right. When I was a child and up until I was in my 30s, the police were much more polite, respectful, and accessible to the public. Those officers were trustworthy. I could approach them and let them know that something was wrong. I didn't have to worry about being treated like a suspect, a liar, or an idiot. My complaint would not be dismissed as trivial. Nor, if I was wrong, would I be accused of lying. The message I received was along the lines of "Thank you for telling us, we'll check it out." Once it led to an officer calling for help because of a rabid squirrel.
Now, I would not bother any officer in my village about anything. I'm white. I do not trust them. I do not like their attitudes towards us. In the last 15-20 years I've had one positive encounter with a cop in my village. I can understand and sympathize with how the African American community views cops. Many of the cops bully civilians, threaten them, dismiss their concerns, and yes, lie. They are very quick to use physical force. Yes, being a cop is a hard job. But when the profile for being a good cop matches the profile for being a bully, something has to change. No one should be shot for running away without a weapon when they've been stopped for a broken taillight. After watching the video what came to mind was cold blooded execution. Is that the image of a cop or a criminal?
Now, I would not bother any officer in my village about anything. I'm white. I do not trust them. I do not like their attitudes towards us. In the last 15-20 years I've had one positive encounter with a cop in my village. I can understand and sympathize with how the African American community views cops. Many of the cops bully civilians, threaten them, dismiss their concerns, and yes, lie. They are very quick to use physical force. Yes, being a cop is a hard job. But when the profile for being a good cop matches the profile for being a bully, something has to change. No one should be shot for running away without a weapon when they've been stopped for a broken taillight. After watching the video what came to mind was cold blooded execution. Is that the image of a cop or a criminal?
144
I could not agree with you more. Police officers have changed. They have changed physically. They all look as if they are all on steroids. I once watched a good looking young man who joined the force turn into the hulk and it wasn't lifting!
Behavior like this puts us all at risk. Their training includes treating citizens as the enemy. Sometimes I wonder if it includes waiting Judge DRED over and over again.
Unfortunately, the black community is a particular target as they seem to be poorer and have less political power. Not only should Slage be jailed but the supervisors that made him think that his cool calm cover up would work. It would have if this incident hadnt been filmed.
Behavior like this puts us all at risk. Their training includes treating citizens as the enemy. Sometimes I wonder if it includes waiting Judge DRED over and over again.
Unfortunately, the black community is a particular target as they seem to be poorer and have less political power. Not only should Slage be jailed but the supervisors that made him think that his cool calm cover up would work. It would have if this incident hadnt been filmed.
1
I, too, have noticed that the prevailing assumption on the part of police officers is that everyone is a criminal, regardless of the reason for the encounter with them. And I am a middle-class middle-aged white woman, so I generally gain the benefit of the doubt - how much worse for anyone not white?
On the other hand, having just read an excellent column in the Denver Post about rape and domestic violence, the similarities are striking - we have an absurd culture of blaming the victim. No one asks why the perpetrator acted thus - it's always what the victim should have done differently. Until that changes, much of our system will remain biased and harmful to the vulnerable.
On the other hand, having just read an excellent column in the Denver Post about rape and domestic violence, the similarities are striking - we have an absurd culture of blaming the victim. No one asks why the perpetrator acted thus - it's always what the victim should have done differently. Until that changes, much of our system will remain biased and harmful to the vulnerable.
2
Nothing in this justifies shooting Walter Scott.
Still, Walter Scott was wrong too.
It wasn't a wrong that justified pulling a gun, much less 8 shots in the back and lying about what happened and planting evidence.
It was a wrong. Being shot in the back does not wash that clean. There is no halo on this victim. He didn't "deserve" to be killed. There is still a problem with what he did.
Still, Walter Scott was wrong too.
It wasn't a wrong that justified pulling a gun, much less 8 shots in the back and lying about what happened and planting evidence.
It was a wrong. Being shot in the back does not wash that clean. There is no halo on this victim. He didn't "deserve" to be killed. There is still a problem with what he did.
23
As Mr. Blow says -- exactly as he says -- some will always find a "back door" through which they can put some of the blame on the victim.
Mark I filed a comment many hours ago in which I quote your observation that the police officer is innocent until found guilty. I think the part of my comment carefully labeled "Opinion" addresses your comment so if the Times does not accept the comment I will send it to you.
Larry
Larry
1
Mark, Times approval is mystifying. I filed my reply to you and it was instantly accepted. But my comment containing an opinion not expressed by anyone else turns out to have been accepted but I was never notified. Therefore I cannot provide the URL.
It turns out to have been accepted 3 h ago (8:30 AM EDT, 11:30 AM in Sweden and it has 16 recommends as of now)
The essence is: Where is the discussion of the procedure to be followed when the violation is a non-moving violation (light out) for which the owner of the car is responsible. A commenter raised the question several days ago. Why do the police need to even stop the car? In the present case, the officer had a video camera in his car. Why not just click and send that video to the appropriate authority?
I would like someone to answer this. Who?
Larry
It turns out to have been accepted 3 h ago (8:30 AM EDT, 11:30 AM in Sweden and it has 16 recommends as of now)
The essence is: Where is the discussion of the procedure to be followed when the violation is a non-moving violation (light out) for which the owner of the car is responsible. A commenter raised the question several days ago. Why do the police need to even stop the car? In the present case, the officer had a video camera in his car. Why not just click and send that video to the appropriate authority?
I would like someone to answer this. Who?
Larry
I am starting to think that many police killings and beatings happen because the police officer lost control due to anger. The people selected for this work lack the emotional maturity to be given a deadly weapon and they lose control and assume a "I'll teach you a lesson" attitude or a "you can't treat me like that attitude." I don't trust police in my city and I become afraid when I have any encounter with them and I am a middle aged middle class white woman. I think many policemen are thugs behind a badge. i expect them to be volatile and dangerous and I know they could shot me with impunity and make up some lie to avoid prosecution.
159
I can relate to your comment about being afraid to encounter a police person. I was recently stopped for rolling through a stop sign. The officer who stopped me was very aggressive. When I asked a question about my infraction, he suggested that I could open myself to further consequences if I challenged him. I meekly shut up but wish I had had a camera or recorder.
1
If a cop's first reaction is to use a taser on someone in the process of being arrested for owing child support, then I can well understand why Scott chose to run. He was clearly dealing with a sadist.
And the cop should be on the hook for Scott's child support - since Scott is no longer alive to pay it.
And the cop should be on the hook for Scott's child support - since Scott is no longer alive to pay it.
291
Was the officer trying to arrest Scott for owing back child support? Or is this a possible explanation for why he was running away? Since when does a broken tail light or owing child support carry the death penalty.
46
Maybe the cop should, since Scott wasn't bothering to pay it. Someone should take care of Scott's kid, I guess that's society's job both then and now.
The video shows Scott may have Tasered the police officer. The video shows two darts lodged in the officer's clothing and the wires are trailing behind Scott as he runs, indicating he still has the Taser. The cop probably didn't know Scott had missed his child support payments. He only knew Scott was violently resisting arrest. Two eyewitness saw them struggling. It was the type of situation Tasers are made for.
You know those people who are always shrieking that government is taking away our freedoms? They'll be the ones saying Scott deserved execution for not instantly obeying a cop's orders. Curiously, they will not be advocating arming African Americans so they can fight back against government tyranny. (Note: police are government workers.)
301
I haven't heard of any sane person who claims that Scott deserved execution- not even those who are always 'shrieking' about government taking away our freedoms.
Stop your spin. It's not that he didn't "instantly obey a cop's orders". It's that he ran away. There's a difference.
Randy,
Check out David's comment that followed yours, one hour later. It belies your point and it's not an exception.
There are plenty of clinically sane Americans who, even looking at a video of a cop who should have been running after an empty-handed Scott instead of calmly executing him and then planting evidence, still concede that it was Officer Slager's right -- no, duty -- to shoot Scott down. And unequivocally excuse his behavior.
It has become perversely clear that, as JHhoppeMA points out, there is a segment -- a rather large segment -- of American society who will always take the cops' side if the victim of police brutality and misconduct is black. Especially poor and black, but middle class (and sometimes even rich) is okay too.
I do believe that even if we had a video showing a black man sitting and calm and empty-handed as he is shot by a cop, these same people would find a reason to excuse it.
It's called racism. And authoritarianism. And America is characterized by both, up and down the social order.
Check out David's comment that followed yours, one hour later. It belies your point and it's not an exception.
There are plenty of clinically sane Americans who, even looking at a video of a cop who should have been running after an empty-handed Scott instead of calmly executing him and then planting evidence, still concede that it was Officer Slager's right -- no, duty -- to shoot Scott down. And unequivocally excuse his behavior.
It has become perversely clear that, as JHhoppeMA points out, there is a segment -- a rather large segment -- of American society who will always take the cops' side if the victim of police brutality and misconduct is black. Especially poor and black, but middle class (and sometimes even rich) is okay too.
I do believe that even if we had a video showing a black man sitting and calm and empty-handed as he is shot by a cop, these same people would find a reason to excuse it.
It's called racism. And authoritarianism. And America is characterized by both, up and down the social order.
1
Hey ho, let's go
Shoot'em in the back now
What they want, I don't know
They're all revved up and ready to go
From Blitzkrieg Bop by the Ramones
Shoot'em in the back now
What they want, I don't know
They're all revved up and ready to go
From Blitzkrieg Bop by the Ramones
23
In "the land of the free," there are too many people who think death is the appropriate penalty for running from the law. The fact that a great deal of the people with this point of view tend to be freedom-fetishizing conservatives is the height of irony.
192
The problem, Mr. Blow, is that society seems to give police officers the benefit of the doubt, which police officers very seldom give their victims.
The indifference to Mr. Garner's plaintive plea of "I can't breathe" not only did not get him the benefit of the doubt, but his death did not even result in an indictment, video evidence notwithstanding. The video of a fleeing Mr. Scott being mercilessly shot in the back by a police officer may have resulted in the officer being charged, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if Mr. Scott's actions became the focus of the trails and the officer is not convicted.
Until we, as a society, start doubting the "official narratives" of the law enforcement officials and demand independepent investigations into "extrajudicial" killings and allegation of police abuse, the Walter Scotts and other unfortunate victims will be on trial and the villains will walk away free.
The indifference to Mr. Garner's plaintive plea of "I can't breathe" not only did not get him the benefit of the doubt, but his death did not even result in an indictment, video evidence notwithstanding. The video of a fleeing Mr. Scott being mercilessly shot in the back by a police officer may have resulted in the officer being charged, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if Mr. Scott's actions became the focus of the trails and the officer is not convicted.
Until we, as a society, start doubting the "official narratives" of the law enforcement officials and demand independepent investigations into "extrajudicial" killings and allegation of police abuse, the Walter Scotts and other unfortunate victims will be on trial and the villains will walk away free.
138
We will continue to give the officers the benefit of the doubt - because it is justified to do so! You wish to indict every officer in the world, but in that tendency you are dead wrong. Most officers are NOT so hair-triggered. I suspect that those who are represent less than one percent of the force [remembering for the moment that the details of this event are not yet know, though from the instant trigger-fingered rush to judgment, you and the author think it is a lock.
Both sides in Officer Slager's trial will use the video. The defense team will run the video to show the Taser darts lodged in the police officer's clothing and the Taser wires trailing behind Scott as he runs. The defense attorneys will claim that this proves Scott took the Taser from the officer and used it against him, just as the officer says in his call for backup. They will point out that the trailing wires proves Scott still had the Taser when he was shot. This might not persuade the jury to acquit the officer but it might persuade them to go for manslaughter rather than murder.
The Eric Garner video shows that Garner was still talking and gasping for breath after the officer released his chokehold or headlock. Garner wasn't choked or strangled to death. The police commissioner said he died of a heart attack in the ambulance on his way to the hospital.
The Eric Garner video shows that Garner was still talking and gasping for breath after the officer released his chokehold or headlock. Garner wasn't choked or strangled to death. The police commissioner said he died of a heart attack in the ambulance on his way to the hospital.
I'm afraid you're wrong, Mr. Edwards, in thinking that I want to indict every officer in the world.
It so happens that I have worked with retired NYPD officers and other law enforcement officials in a job that I had for a quite a few years. Having done that, I *do* know that most of them are decent people.
That is not to say that I defer to the police in each and every instance. After watching the Garner video and the Scott video, when someone says, as you seem to, "Who you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?", I am going with my lying eyes.
It so happens that I have worked with retired NYPD officers and other law enforcement officials in a job that I had for a quite a few years. Having done that, I *do* know that most of them are decent people.
That is not to say that I defer to the police in each and every instance. After watching the Garner video and the Scott video, when someone says, as you seem to, "Who you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?", I am going with my lying eyes.
3
Two people made bad decisions. One got himself killed and the other has a life on his conscience and will likely spend several years in prison for manslaughter.
Those are individual tragedies. The black community would serve itself well to ask itself "What beliefs do we perpetuate that contributed to this all too common dangerous choice.". The law enforcement community would serve itself well to ask the same of itself.
Those are individual tragedies. The black community would serve itself well to ask itself "What beliefs do we perpetuate that contributed to this all too common dangerous choice.". The law enforcement community would serve itself well to ask the same of itself.
37
Running away should not be a death penalty offense. The officer should be in good enough shape that he can chase down the suspect. He could have radioed ahead and let another officer catch Mr. Scott. There was no reason to stand and fire 8 shots into Mr. Scott's back. As a white female I do not like the police. Since 9/11/2001 the police in America have acted more like an occupying force than a force for good. Every interaction I've had with the police since 9/11 has been unpleasant. The police no longer get out of their patrol cars in my small village. They hide behind plexiglass windows and interact with us as little as possible. With one or two exceptions, if anyone asks them a question they are rude. Whenever they are involved in anything it's unpleasant. It's not just the African American community that has problems with the police. Many others do too. Too many officers are bullies not police officers. Too many lie to get information out of people. If they want our respect they have to respect us, all of us, not just some of us.
113
Saying that "the black community" and "the law enforcement community" both need to ask themselves questions creates a dangerous false equivalency. The black community is not given guns to use in the name of the people of the United States, as the law enforcement community is. The black community promulgates no training standards, and it isn't responsible for background checks or responding to allegations of misconduct on the part of its members. Walter Scott is an individual who made an unwise choice and got killed as a result. But the police officer who shot him was acting in our name, on our behalf. So instead of taking the easy "a plague on both your houses" route out, we need to ask ourselves if we're ready to hold police officers using force to the higher standards of behavior that come along with the gun and the public trust.
47
"The black community would serve itself well to ask itself 'What beliefs do we perpetuate that contributed to this all too common dangerous choice.'"
How about the belief that cops are liable to kill unarmed black people? Gee, I wonder where black people got that belief?
Black people don't need to "perpetuate" anything of the kind. It's being perpetuated by reality and the existence of personal video cameras.
Standing still and running away seem to be equally "dangerous choices" for black people.
How about the belief that cops are liable to kill unarmed black people? Gee, I wonder where black people got that belief?
Black people don't need to "perpetuate" anything of the kind. It's being perpetuated by reality and the existence of personal video cameras.
Standing still and running away seem to be equally "dangerous choices" for black people.
57
How can any journalist object to news organizations looking at every nuance that created any situation unless they are blinded by race. No justification for the shooting..the system responded appropriately... THE SECOND COP WAS A BLACK MAN..
5
WHO is blinded by race? Why on earth does the race of the second cop have any bearing on this? Scott was already dead.
We won't know if the system responded correctly until Slager is convicted of murder.
And what is your point about the second cop? I see the issue as one of attitude and behavior of cops in general. There seems to be a group mentality that takes over in what is acceptable behavior on the part of police. There is another point to look at also. In the Garner case the video showed other responders, including EMS, did nothing to try to revive him. In the Scott case, police claimed that officers tried to revive him but the video showed otherwise. Terrible!
2
"And one of the saddest and most frustrating features of our current debate about police use of force, in communities of color in particular, is the degree to which justice itself has been absorbed into the ideological struggle in this country."
I agree.
So, then let us not embroil NYC's "broken windows" policing practices in "ideology" since it benefits all, especially in neighborhoods with people of color.
Let us not "ideologize" the "stop and frisk" policing which results in far fewer guns and young deaths in neighborhoods of people of color.
Let us not "ideologize" this shooting so that a cop's bad actions become a false rallying cry for the alleged "deluge" of police shooting "unarmed black men", like the strong-arm robber Michael Brown, whose shooting was not captured on video, but whose strong-arm holdup was filmed, and the release of that video brought hypocritical cries from "activists" echoing Mr. Blow's instant assertions that "there is only one issue ...."
No, there are actually many issues. Nothing justifies Mr. Scott's death. And nothing justifies not examining the many intersecting narratives.
Otherwise, if Mr. Blow is correct, the only matters to be reviewed in the death of Mr. Scott is why black men are shot down by white cops.
Unless, of course, you wish to examine other issues such as why the second arriving black officer apparently treated Mr. Scott with similar detachment.
But why confuse Mr. Blow's simple narrative? it causes only discomfort.
I agree.
So, then let us not embroil NYC's "broken windows" policing practices in "ideology" since it benefits all, especially in neighborhoods with people of color.
Let us not "ideologize" the "stop and frisk" policing which results in far fewer guns and young deaths in neighborhoods of people of color.
Let us not "ideologize" this shooting so that a cop's bad actions become a false rallying cry for the alleged "deluge" of police shooting "unarmed black men", like the strong-arm robber Michael Brown, whose shooting was not captured on video, but whose strong-arm holdup was filmed, and the release of that video brought hypocritical cries from "activists" echoing Mr. Blow's instant assertions that "there is only one issue ...."
No, there are actually many issues. Nothing justifies Mr. Scott's death. And nothing justifies not examining the many intersecting narratives.
Otherwise, if Mr. Blow is correct, the only matters to be reviewed in the death of Mr. Scott is why black men are shot down by white cops.
Unless, of course, you wish to examine other issues such as why the second arriving black officer apparently treated Mr. Scott with similar detachment.
But why confuse Mr. Blow's simple narrative? it causes only discomfort.
7
It obviously causes discomfort in you. Do you think a shooting was really justified/necessary in any of these cases? I promise you that if you do, your tune would immediately change if one of these victims had been a nice white friend of yours who, unfortunately, made a bad choice.
We need to reduce the weaponry carried by local police. The militarization of local police seems to make them more likely to use their weapons. Big surprise! We need to reduce this trend and develop more effective none lethal methods. People want to assume racism in every case, but I see police officers in NY, CA, MO and SC all out of control. We give the police more and more lethal tools and we naively believe they will not use them. Too quick to use lethal force and often as in the case in NY go unpunished, at least in SC they are prosecuting!
30
Can you cite incidents in which cops have used military weaponry to kill suspects? Standard service revolvers have been used in recent police shootings. A police sniper may have used a military sniper rifle to kill the gunman who murdered 21 during the McDonald's Massacre in 1984, but is this bad?
Trayvon Martin smoked marijuana. Michael Brown was stoned, stole cigars and mouthed off to cops. Eric Garner had a rap sheet and sold illegal cigarettes. Tamar Rice waved a toy gun. Walter Scott was a child-support deadbeat who fled for unknown reasons.
Some commentators would have you believe that all the above merit the death penalty, as decided upon by policemen (fake policeman in Martin's case). Even Rice, who was 12.
Sometimes the commentators say "these people made dangerous choices." Maybe. But we all make mistakes. And I know plenty of older white people who committed far worse deeds at some point in their lives and didn't get blown away by a cop (or rent-a-cop). Do we really live in a world where the slightest mis-step should cause death?
(and speaking of worse deeds: which is worse, owing child-supportrunning away, or being a cop who plants false evidence and perjures himself to investigators?)
Blaming the victim is the oldest trick in the book. Somehow, we are supposed to wait for the squeakiest, cleanest poster child to get shot before saying anything. And every time someone else gets killed, we find dirt that makes them, too, marked for death. Even the 12 year old boy.
The US Supreme Court ruled that it is excessive force to shoot a fleeing suspect in the back unless danger is posed. Walter Scott wasn't dangerous. Shouldn't that settle the question?
The dangerous one was the cop.
Some commentators would have you believe that all the above merit the death penalty, as decided upon by policemen (fake policeman in Martin's case). Even Rice, who was 12.
Sometimes the commentators say "these people made dangerous choices." Maybe. But we all make mistakes. And I know plenty of older white people who committed far worse deeds at some point in their lives and didn't get blown away by a cop (or rent-a-cop). Do we really live in a world where the slightest mis-step should cause death?
(and speaking of worse deeds: which is worse, owing child-supportrunning away, or being a cop who plants false evidence and perjures himself to investigators?)
Blaming the victim is the oldest trick in the book. Somehow, we are supposed to wait for the squeakiest, cleanest poster child to get shot before saying anything. And every time someone else gets killed, we find dirt that makes them, too, marked for death. Even the 12 year old boy.
The US Supreme Court ruled that it is excessive force to shoot a fleeing suspect in the back unless danger is posed. Walter Scott wasn't dangerous. Shouldn't that settle the question?
The dangerous one was the cop.
532
George Zimmerman wasn't a rent-a-cop, he was a self-appointed neighborhood guard.
22
That's what Flounder said: a "fake cop".
19
Indeed, the profundity of guns, plus the 9/11 psychosis of pre-emptively shooting suspects and asking questions later has been repeated over and over in the last year. We should not have to coach our kids in trying to deal with a policeman or woman. They should know what the procedure is....I did not think we lived in a police state...I am rethinking that thought.
1
it is common knowledge that African American parents educate their children to the excesses of cops and to be careful and respectfiul when encountering one, especially a white cop. Recently there have been a rash of white cop killing black incidents and in each case the cops have gotten a clean chit and exonerated. Admittedly being a cop entails risks but in every case there appear to have been little risk involved. Callousness and reckless disregard to the lives of the victims are the only answers that come to mind. Somehow this has to stop in the beacon of civility that this country purports to be.
40
I've heard that a second police officer falsified his police report to back up Officer Slager's false report. If this is so, that should be grounds for his immediate dismissal. In fact, if he weren't a policeman, that would make him an accessory to murder -- a felony -- but a different set of laws seems to apply to policeman.
274
Al Sharpton claims the black police officer who was the first t arrive after the shooting lied about administering medical aid to Scott, but the video shows the officer administering aid. The black officer said he attempted to applied pressure to stop the bleeding. This is standard in gunshot wounds. No officer has been accused of lying to back up Officer Slager's story. The truth is that no one knows what Slager claims happened, except the video audio captures him say Scott took his Taser. The video appears to confirm this. Two darts are lodged in the officer's clothing and the wires are trailing behind Scott as his runs.
There is little evidence in the Black experience in America with gun happy and racist cops to support the mythology that “if he hadn’t run” Walter Scott would still be alive. This is simply a white mythology projected upon Blacks to absolve white guilt. More revealing, it further perpetuates the narratives of black guilt and white innocence that undergirds a society structure on white supremacy.
What is real is that the history of this country lays bare that Black people were and are being killed simply for being black. Since arriving on these shores as enslaved people, Black people have always had to justify why we should be treated as human.
What is real is that the history of this country lays bare that Black people were and are being killed simply for being black. Since arriving on these shores as enslaved people, Black people have always had to justify why we should be treated as human.
251
There were two black men in the car. The one who had a warrant out for his arrest, ran, violently resisted arrest and was shot. The black man who remained in the car was questioned by police and released. This doesn't reveal anything to you? The common thread that links police shootings is not race but resisting arrests. A USA Today study conducted after the Michael Brown shooting revealed that on average white police officers each year kill about 400 people, including about 96 African Americans. This means that about 24 percent of those killed by white police officers are black, but it also means that about 76 percent of people killed by white police officers are not black.
23
It's not useful or even necessarily true to call the cops involved racist. In my opinion, that's too easy for all of us to say; "if the cops were better people, all would be OK." That's probably the wrong lesson to learn. It's far more likely in my mind that there are deep systemic problems that lead to this behavior. I don't think the individuals can be excused but it's quite possible that given a random sample of ideal cops, given their training, and put in similar situations, would eventually with enough interactions of this sort lead to exactly the same outcome occur. So perhaps we should examine how policing is done before applying the "racist" card. We are all racist in some way or another and we have to improve ourselves but we also have to make our society work in the mean time.
Unfortunately the solution to this problem requires taking into account both perspectives - the perspective or someone like you Mr. Case who believes that if pulled over, there is nothing to "fear" from a police stop, that justice will be done, and those that fear the consequences of a police stop. Those are two different world views, both of which are equally true. The video was interesting in that it was able to bridge both of those perspectives - there was very little coming from those that are traditionally defensive of the police that this was justified - that's only because there was a video. I suspect that if a video were available in some of these other cases (like in Ferguson), that there would be less disagreement. In any event body cameras for police would provide everyone, whatever their perspective, with more tools to evaluate each solution. It might even have the salutary approach of making the unnecessary use of force more rare, and could also protect policemen when the use of force is justified.
I think, after all that has happened in recent years, that if I were a black man stopped by a cop with a gun, my initial reflex *might* be that I'd have a slightly better chance of staying alive by running than by staying put.
160
That's an excuse. A poor one at that
This police encounter in SC and the horse back riding situation in CA last week seem to indicate that the police and the public have very different understandings of the rules of engagement once resistance to arrest has occurred. It seems that on the other side of resistance to arrest a battlefield/war mode takes over. We need to shine the light on the assumptions and training for post resistance to arrest actions.
56
The California guy was spread-eagled on the ground when he was brutalized.
1
Has anyone determined that Mr. Scott's light was actually burnt-out? That was the excuse for the stop in the first place, right? Or maybe he was guilty of "driving while black?"
17
The right side brake light was out.
Its horrifying to think that if not for the bystander and his phone this officer would still be on the beat. Loss of privacy is a real concern in modern society, but when everything is public and available for scrutiny, it's getting harder and harder to literally get away with murder. George Orwell saw the two-way "telescreen" as an instrument of suppression, but it's becoming clearer that our little phones are a powerful tool of citizen democracy.
Time has stopped for Walter Scott, but we will always be able to relive his final moments. When a jury can too, we will begin to have accountability.
Time has stopped for Walter Scott, but we will always be able to relive his final moments. When a jury can too, we will begin to have accountability.
18
So long as the police think of themselves as an "occupying army" whose purpose is to keep the "natives" under control, we will have People of Color being killed.
21
Authoritarians, who make up about a third of the population (a bit higher in the south, and the vast majority of conservative pundits), tend to blame the victim and support authority figures like the police no matter what in instances like this. They also tend to be racist. See the research of Bob Altemeyer - it explains nearly every problem like this we have in this country.
32
That the victim ran after what appeared in the video to be a routine traffic stop is a given. That a taser was used is a given. That the victim was shot in the back while running away from the officer after he used a taser is also a given.
What should be considered is that after the victim was shot and killed the officer went back to where the taser was dropped, picked it up, took it to the victim's body and dropped the taser close to him.
He did not appear to attend to the victim in any serious way, but he did handcuff a man who wasn't about to rise again and go anywhere. There was no video (which was still being used by the young observer) of CPR being used.
Yes, the victim made a stupid choice when he ran instead of staying and taking the consequences of whatever the traffic stop was going to cause. But nothing on this earth excuses the choice of the officer when he raised that gun, pulled that trigger, aimed it at the back of a running man, and in so doing killed a man and ruined his own life and those of two families.
What should be considered is that after the victim was shot and killed the officer went back to where the taser was dropped, picked it up, took it to the victim's body and dropped the taser close to him.
He did not appear to attend to the victim in any serious way, but he did handcuff a man who wasn't about to rise again and go anywhere. There was no video (which was still being used by the young observer) of CPR being used.
Yes, the victim made a stupid choice when he ran instead of staying and taking the consequences of whatever the traffic stop was going to cause. But nothing on this earth excuses the choice of the officer when he raised that gun, pulled that trigger, aimed it at the back of a running man, and in so doing killed a man and ruined his own life and those of two families.
35
The police officer, for the horrible crime he committed, should serve a long, long time in prison. The Johnny Cash line "I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die.." applies here. The officer not only shot a man in S. Carolina, he handcuffed him, and then watched him die. No sympathy for this policeman.
"Any exculpatory evidence must justify the use of force, not simply seek to justify it." This sentence is the only moral test for any grand jury investigation, indictment, or presentation at trial. One can easily postulate that Mr. Scott, realizing that his domestic affairs may have caught up with him, ran away from Officer Slager knowing that the background check would necessitate his arrest and detention. Mr. Scott must have feared the loss of his freedom; that's quite understandable. However, any minimally-trained policeman, having Mr. Scott's plates, would have known where to find him. An arrest could have been made later. When he ran, Mr. Scott probably knew he could not go very far, so, one necessarily asks, "why this unnecessary use of force by Officer Slager? All he had to do was get on his car radio and report "suspect running, dressed in..." give as specific as physical a description as he could under the circumstances, where the fleeting man appeared to be going, the usual all-points-bulletin. Mr. Scott did not have to die because he ran away. How can it not be argued that Officer Slager was not willing to kill Mr. Scott? The high percentage of poll respondents may wish to consider these points before reaching for the comfort of "he died because an innocent man stands his ground." But wouldn't that have placed Mr. Scott in greater danger?
3
News reports state that Scott was stopped for a broken tail light. Even if the police officer uncovered the info about missed child support payments, shooting the fleeing Scott was a criminal act. That said, I believe Mr. Blow is wrong when he states that commentators are equating running with the shooting when they say "why did Scott run...." There is a chance that if Scott had cooperated with this officer, he would be alive, albeit in jail. This is not the same as saying he is responsible for his own death. Using this logic, one could assert that Blow is saying suspects should run from police and that is not what he is saying. The bottom line is that shooting an unarmed person in the back is a criminal act.
8
Oh what a tangled web we weave
When we practice to deceive.
When we practice to deceive.
9
Mr. Blow seems unable two reconcile two facts:
1) Mr. Scott should not have been shot and killed and the officer responsible will, deservedly, spend the long, long time in jail.
2) the precipitating factor that lead to Mr. Scott's being shot and killed was his disobeying police commands to remain in the vehicle and fleeing police custody. Twice.
Is a person killed in an accident caused by a drunk driver responsible for their death? No. If that person wasn't wearing a seatbelt, and the accident was survivable otherwise, does that change the answer? No, but it is a fact that those who loved that person must deal with, just as those who loved Mr. Scott must deal with 'if only he had remained in the car as instructed'.
That is not "opening a dark door", it is acknowledging a simple fact; undeserved outcomes often have have avoidable causal factors.
1) Mr. Scott should not have been shot and killed and the officer responsible will, deservedly, spend the long, long time in jail.
2) the precipitating factor that lead to Mr. Scott's being shot and killed was his disobeying police commands to remain in the vehicle and fleeing police custody. Twice.
Is a person killed in an accident caused by a drunk driver responsible for their death? No. If that person wasn't wearing a seatbelt, and the accident was survivable otherwise, does that change the answer? No, but it is a fact that those who loved that person must deal with, just as those who loved Mr. Scott must deal with 'if only he had remained in the car as instructed'.
That is not "opening a dark door", it is acknowledging a simple fact; undeserved outcomes often have have avoidable causal factors.
17
Refusing to stay in your car, where you are a sitting duck, is justification for being killed?
Wrong, wrong, wrong. As Mr. Blow said (paraphrasing), it is impossible to justify, fully or even partially, the cold blooded murder of Mr. Scott by this police officer.
It is time to open your eyes and understand that Mr. Scott could just as easily have been your wife, your son, daughter, or even your elderly mother. Although excessive use of force against Black Americans is what makes the nightly news, less reported is the fact that cops are out of control across the US and these incidents are occurring with frightening frequency against persons of all racial and cultural backgrounds, whether 1 percenters or 99 percenters.
It is time to open your eyes and understand that Mr. Scott could just as easily have been your wife, your son, daughter, or even your elderly mother. Although excessive use of force against Black Americans is what makes the nightly news, less reported is the fact that cops are out of control across the US and these incidents are occurring with frightening frequency against persons of all racial and cultural backgrounds, whether 1 percenters or 99 percenters.
But the final, unequivocal fact remains : nothing Mr. Scott did merited the
death penalty. The officer's blatant lies after the events prove it.
death penalty. The officer's blatant lies after the events prove it.
As "we collect and analyze data," what does that mean? From this time on will there be exhaustive break-downs of every police killing? Will new definitions be written about "use of force?" My point is that these criteria for examining use of force are now and have been points of examination.
What more needs to be done to satisfy the requirements? Between Rodney King and Walter Scott and cell phone photography, accountability has been increased many-fold, but the killings continue. Where then do we go?
What more needs to be done to satisfy the requirements? Between Rodney King and Walter Scott and cell phone photography, accountability has been increased many-fold, but the killings continue. Where then do we go?
10
It seems according to the video "evidence" that Walter Scott had a pronounced limp probably from a childhood disability.
3
Blow may not like the facts, but the facts are that Scott was a criminal with a record of serial offenses. When stopped for a traffic offense he attempted to escape and a scuffle ensued with the officer. Police put their lives on the line every day in similar circumstances and have a right to protect themselves... how to know that Scott was not armed?
At most, this is a case of excessive force by the police and much more is to be learned by the circumstances of the arrest.
At most, this is a case of excessive force by the police and much more is to be learned by the circumstances of the arrest.
8
How to know that Scott was not armed? Because he was running away. "Protecting himself" by shooting a fleeing man in the back seems a contradiction in terms. And as I understand it, none of the "crimes" Scott was alleged to have committed carried the possibility of a death sentence.
47
Bill, Amazing thought process: "how to know that Scott was not armed?" "Police....have the right to protect themselves...." This asks us to look at the tape and imagine that Slager was protecting himself because Scott may have been armed? Please look at the tape again.
5
@Bill
Your post is so thoughtless and betraying of an underlying insensitivity and rigidity that it leaves me almost without words.
Police must not be automatons.
Your post is so thoughtless and betraying of an underlying insensitivity and rigidity that it leaves me almost without words.
Police must not be automatons.
6
This is a great and eloquent column. I don't often see the words obdurate and absurdity together.
Even us 1%ers aren't safe. I had a traffic ticket out of state and took it to court and watched a police officer commit blatant perjury to justify the ticket just so they could collect $248 out of me. The judge was a hack and bought every cop's testimony in the cases that came before me and then in mine.
If they'll lie over $248. a pittance to me, God only knows what they'll say to justify a killing.
I'm a lawyer, by the way. My experience, while trivial to what Mr. Scott suffered, reflects a judicial system that has abandoned all concepts of justice, something which I've seen over the years but which takes on that special meaning that can only come from personal experience.
A friend, formerly a defense lawyer but now an appeals court judge, told me years ago that all cops lie. The significance of the Scott case may be that it proves that what members of the bar have known for years.
It may also be the glue that ties together middle-aged white guys like me who drive BMWs with minorities who've been victimized by the court system for years: if it's our word versus some cop, we're SOL.
What the hell happened to this country? Perhaps we didn't pay enough to Martin Niemoeller, who nailed the cost of ignoring injustice regardless of against whom it is directed. "First they came against..."
Even us 1%ers aren't safe. I had a traffic ticket out of state and took it to court and watched a police officer commit blatant perjury to justify the ticket just so they could collect $248 out of me. The judge was a hack and bought every cop's testimony in the cases that came before me and then in mine.
If they'll lie over $248. a pittance to me, God only knows what they'll say to justify a killing.
I'm a lawyer, by the way. My experience, while trivial to what Mr. Scott suffered, reflects a judicial system that has abandoned all concepts of justice, something which I've seen over the years but which takes on that special meaning that can only come from personal experience.
A friend, formerly a defense lawyer but now an appeals court judge, told me years ago that all cops lie. The significance of the Scott case may be that it proves that what members of the bar have known for years.
It may also be the glue that ties together middle-aged white guys like me who drive BMWs with minorities who've been victimized by the court system for years: if it's our word versus some cop, we're SOL.
What the hell happened to this country? Perhaps we didn't pay enough to Martin Niemoeller, who nailed the cost of ignoring injustice regardless of against whom it is directed. "First they came against..."
450
Great comment.
12
I was a foreman on the jury of a speeding ticket trial, believe it or not. The speeder was a retired corporate lawyer who wanted to try out his courtroom skills. Myself and the rest of the jury disliked this grandstander very much but in the end we reluctantly acquitted him of the offense. Why? Because the fresh faced, clean cut police officer blatantly lied on the stand.
9
Now there is a logical conundrum - a lawyer stating that all cops lie. Given that it is widely known that all lawyers lie, can we then conclude from this lawyer's sweeping statement that all cops tell the truth? Such generalizations merely add fuel to an already bad situation. There are many honest cops and lawyers. I have known many of them. I've also known cops and lawyers who were power-hungry hungry scoundrels. But I've also seen such folk in small and large businesses, school systems, nursing homes, and so on. Thankfully, most don't carry guns, but they are nevertheless adept at destroying lives without them. All lives matter. Wherever they are.
3
"There is no moral equivalency between running and killing, and anyone who argues this obdurate absurdity reveals a deficiency in their own humanity. Death is not the appropriate punishment for disobedience."
Thank you, Charles. Time Magazine this week carried the headline, "Black Lives Matter." I was astounded. That such a statement needs to be said at all is pathetic. I know it's a slogan, for a movement, but the fact that we have 1st tier, 2nd tier, and even 3rd tier "lives" in this country speaks to a growing and exceptionally callous view of the value of human life.
It's become such a knee-jerk reaction to excuse senseless police (and vigilante, eg. George Zimmerman) killngs as if they can be waved away because the victim "deserved it."
Pointing a gun at a cop is one thing. Being unarmed and a tad belligerent with a cop, or fleeing (again, unarmed) out of fear, is not grounds for murder. Claiming it does insults every concept of civil law in this country.
Thank you, Charles. Time Magazine this week carried the headline, "Black Lives Matter." I was astounded. That such a statement needs to be said at all is pathetic. I know it's a slogan, for a movement, but the fact that we have 1st tier, 2nd tier, and even 3rd tier "lives" in this country speaks to a growing and exceptionally callous view of the value of human life.
It's become such a knee-jerk reaction to excuse senseless police (and vigilante, eg. George Zimmerman) killngs as if they can be waved away because the victim "deserved it."
Pointing a gun at a cop is one thing. Being unarmed and a tad belligerent with a cop, or fleeing (again, unarmed) out of fear, is not grounds for murder. Claiming it does insults every concept of civil law in this country.
132
What seems to be lost in everyone of the police shootings that have made national news recently is the fixation on the particular events around the shootings as each is independent of the others . When we look at these shootings seemingly involving unarmed men who become entangles physically with the officers, the unarmed men end up dead. Yet we have the Aurora Co shooting, well armed and having discharged rounds of ammunition and he is taken alive. One well armed and white, the others unarmed at first and black.
Instead of fixating on the individual cases, which need to be dealt with, there is a larger institutional problem with the police forces of this country and their interactions with the public. It seems that too many of our police were raised on James Bond and his License to Kill and apparently are very poorly trained.
Instead of fixating on the individual cases, which need to be dealt with, there is a larger institutional problem with the police forces of this country and their interactions with the public. It seems that too many of our police were raised on James Bond and his License to Kill and apparently are very poorly trained.
185
optodoc: True. But police are the products of their homes, churches, and societies. the rot lies there, at the roots.
3
Lee Harvey Oswald, James Earl Ray, Jared Lougner, James Holmes, Eric Rudolph and Eric Frein were all arrested alive.
Armed angry threatening white Cliven Bundy and his acolytes were not arrested. They were lionized on Fox News.
Armed angry threatening white Cliven Bundy and his acolytes were not arrested. They were lionized on Fox News.
42
Lee Harvey Oswald, James Earl Ray, Jared Loughner, James Holmes, Eric Rudolph and Eric Frein were all arrested alive and well.
But armed, angry and threatening Cliven Bundy and his acolytes was not even arrested. Indeed, they were lionized on Fox News and in the Wall Street Journal and by conservative Republicans.
Imagine the outrage and uproar if Walter Scott were the cop and had killed a fleeing white person like this cop by shooting him the back. Scott and the cop were both a son, father, brother, husband and uncle who served in the U.S. Coast Guard.
But armed, angry and threatening Cliven Bundy and his acolytes was not even arrested. Indeed, they were lionized on Fox News and in the Wall Street Journal and by conservative Republicans.
Imagine the outrage and uproar if Walter Scott were the cop and had killed a fleeing white person like this cop by shooting him the back. Scott and the cop were both a son, father, brother, husband and uncle who served in the U.S. Coast Guard.
91
My Australian Perspective: Just after midnight, Sunday May 8th, 2005, I heard seven shots ring out in the street below. I retreated from my attic studio, and made for the front door. The strobes of police emergency lighting already on the scene suggested it had been police doing the firing.
This was a wide leafy avenue in Bradley Beach, New Jersey.
Neighbors joined me on the sidewalk, directly opposite the scene of a killing. Three police officers stood over the body of a thirty-three year old man. No amount of their desperate C.P.R. as we waited for an ambulance made a difference.
The District Prosecutor later gave the details. Police recognized the man as a passenger at a local gas station. The man had failed to visit with his probation officer, following release from prison for burglary with assault. They followed the car and pulled it over in our street. .
He had pulled a pocket-knife and held it to his own throat threatening to kill himself when asked to get out. Pepper spray didn't work, since he bolted from the car and tried to escape through their semicircle.
The police fired to kill, which is how they’re trained.
The issue is one of proportion. Did this scenario constitute such a threat as to require deadly force? The police spoke of “police suicide” as a possibility. That could be convenient.
In this violent US culture, guns remain the favored means for keeping the peace. Sunshine Coast Daily 05/28/05 QLD, Australia
This was a wide leafy avenue in Bradley Beach, New Jersey.
Neighbors joined me on the sidewalk, directly opposite the scene of a killing. Three police officers stood over the body of a thirty-three year old man. No amount of their desperate C.P.R. as we waited for an ambulance made a difference.
The District Prosecutor later gave the details. Police recognized the man as a passenger at a local gas station. The man had failed to visit with his probation officer, following release from prison for burglary with assault. They followed the car and pulled it over in our street. .
He had pulled a pocket-knife and held it to his own throat threatening to kill himself when asked to get out. Pepper spray didn't work, since he bolted from the car and tried to escape through their semicircle.
The police fired to kill, which is how they’re trained.
The issue is one of proportion. Did this scenario constitute such a threat as to require deadly force? The police spoke of “police suicide” as a possibility. That could be convenient.
In this violent US culture, guns remain the favored means for keeping the peace. Sunshine Coast Daily 05/28/05 QLD, Australia
10
You're right, Mr. Blow - fleeing a scene in no way justifies being shot for doing so, let alone being killed. Surely to heaven, every police officer in the country HAS to know that the Supreme Court ruled, in 1985, the use of deadly force against a fleeing suspect who poses no threat is unconstitutional. And yet, since this travesty occurred there have been articles suggesting that leniency for law enforcement is such that Mr. Scott's killer may very well walk away a free man.
In the interview with the young man from the Dominican Republic who recorded the video, he made a touching point, saying that people from his country - and from every country in the world - look to America for fairness and justice. Let's hope this incident doesn't turn out to shatter his belief.
In the interview with the young man from the Dominican Republic who recorded the video, he made a touching point, saying that people from his country - and from every country in the world - look to America for fairness and justice. Let's hope this incident doesn't turn out to shatter his belief.
7
Good article but I wonder about the statistics In the sidebar. I am white and, in general, trust policemen but I understand,that black people often don't get the same treatment as white people.. Some of it is because of poverty and not having the resources to get justice but a lot of it is racial too. I think most white people understand that so I am surprised at the percent of whites who think black people are treated fairly in the justice system.
8
Not only do a lot of police treat blacks unfairly, they also blame and treat unfairly white people who live in predominately communities.
Back in the 70s I moved into a house in a mostly black community because a friend of a friend lived on that block and recommended it, and it was what I could afford as a newly single parent of 3 children. Several months after I moved in there was a great commotion in the night, and lots of police. After things seemed under control I went to my front porch to see what was going on. An officer approached me and asked me if I had seen anything. After I said no, he said, more or less, "Look, lady, you shouldn't be living here. You're going to have problems. " What he clearly meant is that a white woman should not be living in a predominately black community, and, by inference, if anything happened to me it would be at least in part because I lived in that community.
Back in the 70s I moved into a house in a mostly black community because a friend of a friend lived on that block and recommended it, and it was what I could afford as a newly single parent of 3 children. Several months after I moved in there was a great commotion in the night, and lots of police. After things seemed under control I went to my front porch to see what was going on. An officer approached me and asked me if I had seen anything. After I said no, he said, more or less, "Look, lady, you shouldn't be living here. You're going to have problems. " What he clearly meant is that a white woman should not be living in a predominately black community, and, by inference, if anything happened to me it would be at least in part because I lived in that community.
1
With approximately 330,000,000 firearms in the possession of private citizens, the police in this country will always have to be armed. And where firearms are within easy reach, people end up dead--oftentimes innocent people.
6
I’ve been paying fairly close attention to the discussions too, though, unlike Charles, I haven’t participated in them except through comments here and elsewhere. I’ve seen NO attempts, direct or “back door”, to seek to blame Walter Scott for his own death. For whatever actual reason, he clearly was cop-murdered, and what a serendipitous video caught is the basis for the whole country to wonder how often this happens, and to seriously start talking about what to do about it systemically.
No serious authority that I’ve heard, or serious thread of public sentiment, has suggested that Officer Michael Slager was justified in shooting Mr. Scott in the back simply for fleeing an arrest; and, indeed, the authorities obviously saw matters the same way, given the speed with which they fired Slager and indicted him for murder. It’s also appears likely that the other cops involved in the incident will face some form of discipline, as well.
The whole country is up in arms about this shooting; and, with the other recent tragedies, ripples in the pond are being reinforced by the seemingly unending, definitely tragic dropping of pebbles into it – this won’t be ignored.
I remain curious at Charles’s choice of theme today.
No serious authority that I’ve heard, or serious thread of public sentiment, has suggested that Officer Michael Slager was justified in shooting Mr. Scott in the back simply for fleeing an arrest; and, indeed, the authorities obviously saw matters the same way, given the speed with which they fired Slager and indicted him for murder. It’s also appears likely that the other cops involved in the incident will face some form of discipline, as well.
The whole country is up in arms about this shooting; and, with the other recent tragedies, ripples in the pond are being reinforced by the seemingly unending, definitely tragic dropping of pebbles into it – this won’t be ignored.
I remain curious at Charles’s choice of theme today.
5
Richard, have you not been reading the comments here? A significant number of them clearly state, in one form or another, that "Mr. Scott would probably be alive today if he hadn't ran from the cop."
The truth is, many Americans are doing their best to find a way to justify the unjustifiable. It sickens me to realize that at least one of my own brothers falls into this camp.
The truth is, many Americans are doing their best to find a way to justify the unjustifiable. It sickens me to realize that at least one of my own brothers falls into this camp.
Have you read this comment stream at all? And you're still convinced the "whole country" has seen the light? None so blind as those who will not see.
CT resident and gypsynorth:
I don't know when you guys actually submit comments, but I submit them shortly after the op-eds (or news stories) come out -- I have no opportunity to read a comment stream that doesn't as yet exist, and I have no control over when mine will be published.
As to Mr. Scott running, I imagine he WOULDN'T have been shot if he hadn't. So? The fact that the cop was indicted for MURDER pretty much says how permissible shooting him as he ran was, when there was no evidence that he presented a threat to the public if free.
I'm a Republican, and on certain matters fairly conservative, and I can see no legitimate justification for shooting White, or the pathetic care he received by other cops as he lay there bleeding out.
Other people have every right to disagree with me. They're simply wrong.
I don't know when you guys actually submit comments, but I submit them shortly after the op-eds (or news stories) come out -- I have no opportunity to read a comment stream that doesn't as yet exist, and I have no control over when mine will be published.
As to Mr. Scott running, I imagine he WOULDN'T have been shot if he hadn't. So? The fact that the cop was indicted for MURDER pretty much says how permissible shooting him as he ran was, when there was no evidence that he presented a threat to the public if free.
I'm a Republican, and on certain matters fairly conservative, and I can see no legitimate justification for shooting White, or the pathetic care he received by other cops as he lay there bleeding out.
Other people have every right to disagree with me. They're simply wrong.
The sort of summary execution in the street by the police that we see almost daily just really doesn't happen to white people. White people are almost always taken alive, even mass murderers and police killers, to receive a trial and appropriate punishment under the law. Some of them aren't even arrested for threatening or shooting police (cf Bundy).
That's why they can't conceive that the police are untrustworthy -- because it isn't in their experience at all. They don't know anyone who might get gunned down in the street like that. And so they buy the dehumanization of the dead and ignore the cries of people of color who experience this arbitrary frontier "justice."
But along with their increasingly strained justifications of police violence against African Americas, they might ask themselves and try to answer:
Do you think that white people should be shot in the street for running away, as well? Would you similarly justify some number -- every three days or so -- a white person being shot or strangled on the street in full view of the public?
Or do you think that African Americans are less worthy of receiving their Constitutional rights of due process under American law than you are?
One or the other. Either the police should do more extrajudicial executions of white men, or you think that black men are not worthy of fair trial and punishment.
That's why they can't conceive that the police are untrustworthy -- because it isn't in their experience at all. They don't know anyone who might get gunned down in the street like that. And so they buy the dehumanization of the dead and ignore the cries of people of color who experience this arbitrary frontier "justice."
But along with their increasingly strained justifications of police violence against African Americas, they might ask themselves and try to answer:
Do you think that white people should be shot in the street for running away, as well? Would you similarly justify some number -- every three days or so -- a white person being shot or strangled on the street in full view of the public?
Or do you think that African Americans are less worthy of receiving their Constitutional rights of due process under American law than you are?
One or the other. Either the police should do more extrajudicial executions of white men, or you think that black men are not worthy of fair trial and punishment.
24
Mr. Blows comments are right on. However American society is once again rearing its ugly head and showing that 'Rome is falling' One of the internet news service on Saturday made the point that Mr Scott had been discharged from the Coast Guard with a less than honorable discharge. The great American minds sprung on this like flies on 'whatever.' This so called 'news service should be shut down based on a 'stupidity' scale alone! 'I am presuming that correlating this to the 2016 election, we 'ain't seen nothing yet'
5
It is also essential that police cease to make the broken- taillight sort of stop. Those have become, as has been documented widely, an income stream for municipalities. They serve no purpose other than to harass and victimize the poor, and especially people of color. Police must focus their attention on serious crimes instead.
28
Shortly after I bought a used car and was driving it in a near Philadelphia (predominately white) suburb, I was stopped by the police. One of the officers approached me and told me that my taillight wasn't working and that I should get it fixed. That was the end of the discussion - no ticket, no request for my license and registration, no request to get out of the car. I am a white woman and was "middle-age" at the time.
Cops are obliged to enforce all the laws. And a broken taillight might disclose a driver who has warrants, or worse.
What I find particularly interesting is on the Television program "COPS". The show centers on the fact that 'criminals flee'. The shows spends endless hours showing these chase events. It appears to be part of the job description of apprehending those accused of crimes. Countless videos have also shown helicopter views of police in pursuit. Walter Scott's running appears not to be that radically unusual. There cannot be any justification for 8 shots in the back. This event is a crime and a needless tragedy for all concerned.
13
Is it possible that the reason that more dark skinned people get shot by police is that more dark skinned people run away or disobey police? Possibly they have good reason for this behavior but if engaging in a certain behavior causes you to be more likely to be shot then you shouldn't be surprised by that result. I'm not saying that shooting people who run away or disobey is justified, in most cases it is not justified. I'm just saying that it may not be the color of their skin but their actions that make them more likely to be shot. Many police officers are bullies but once you realize that shouldn't you act accordingly when dealing with them? I learned this as a young man when I would smart off to cops when being pulled over for traffic violations. The were usually very harsh on me but now I treat them politely with respect even if I think I didn't do anything wrong and the results for me are much better. It amazes me how people like Mr Blow cannot understand that actions result in reactions. But unlike in Newtonian physics, the reaction is not always proportional to the action.
9
"I'm not saying that shooting people who run away or disobey is justified, in most cases it is not justified. " But that is exactly what you are saying, Wonder Boy, when you say their actions make them more likely to be shot.
Let's say, for the sake of argument, your description is accurate. Why should the burden of coping rest on the civilians? Surely, a more appropriate remedy would involve firing the 'bullies' and then arresting them, combined with a more vigorous program of training police how to respond properly to different forms of resistance by suspects. Police work is extraordinarily difficult and sometimes very dangerous, but it is intolerable that people should die because of non-lethal confrontations such as the one in North Charleston.
I believe, that if you run, that's not an excuse to be shot down like a deer.
Nowhere.
Using your logic, you should've been blown away when you smarted off to the cops when you were pulled over. Should you have been shot? Maybe. If you engage in that behavior, the reaction is not always proportional to the action. Yet, you lived long enough to write this note justifying execution for a person running away from an officer. What a privilege...
And it's just plain ignorant to say that more black people run away from the police. White people run away from police all the time. Don't you watch COPS? That's most of what they do: chasing white people who flee! Funny how they don't shoot them in the back.
The dead are just more likely to be shot because they are black.
Nowhere.
Using your logic, you should've been blown away when you smarted off to the cops when you were pulled over. Should you have been shot? Maybe. If you engage in that behavior, the reaction is not always proportional to the action. Yet, you lived long enough to write this note justifying execution for a person running away from an officer. What a privilege...
And it's just plain ignorant to say that more black people run away from the police. White people run away from police all the time. Don't you watch COPS? That's most of what they do: chasing white people who flee! Funny how they don't shoot them in the back.
The dead are just more likely to be shot because they are black.
4
The Blue Wall of Silence, Violence and Corruption has turned the police into the real criminals:
Words from Frank Serpico, a former New York City police detective in 2014:
'Police make up a peculiar subculture in society. More often than not they have their own moral code of behavior, an “us against them” attitude, enforced by a Blue Wall of Silence. It’s their version of the Mafia’s omerta. Speak out, and you’re no longer “one of us.” You’re one of “them.” '
'I tried to be an honest cop in a force full of bribe-takers. But as I found out the hard way, police departments are useless at investigating themselves—and that’s exactly the problem facing ordinary people across the country.'
'Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. (We still don’t know how many of these incidents (police murders) occur each year; even though Congress enacted the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act 20 years ago, requiring the Justice Department to produce an annual report on “the use of excessive force by law enforcement officers,” the reports were never issued.)
"A few years ago, a NYC cop named Adrian Schoolcraft was actually taken to a psych ward and handcuffed to a gurney for six days after he tried to complain about corruption – they wanted him to keep to a quota of summonses, and he wasn’t complying. No one would have believed him except he hid a tape recorder in his room, and recorded them making their demands. Now he’s like me, an outcast."
http://goo.gl/W7ZPVq
Words from Frank Serpico, a former New York City police detective in 2014:
'Police make up a peculiar subculture in society. More often than not they have their own moral code of behavior, an “us against them” attitude, enforced by a Blue Wall of Silence. It’s their version of the Mafia’s omerta. Speak out, and you’re no longer “one of us.” You’re one of “them.” '
'I tried to be an honest cop in a force full of bribe-takers. But as I found out the hard way, police departments are useless at investigating themselves—and that’s exactly the problem facing ordinary people across the country.'
'Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. (We still don’t know how many of these incidents (police murders) occur each year; even though Congress enacted the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act 20 years ago, requiring the Justice Department to produce an annual report on “the use of excessive force by law enforcement officers,” the reports were never issued.)
"A few years ago, a NYC cop named Adrian Schoolcraft was actually taken to a psych ward and handcuffed to a gurney for six days after he tried to complain about corruption – they wanted him to keep to a quota of summonses, and he wasn’t complying. No one would have believed him except he hid a tape recorder in his room, and recorded them making their demands. Now he’s like me, an outcast."
http://goo.gl/W7ZPVq
365
Thank you for that link. It is quite a stunning read. Something Mr. Serpico said seems to apropos here:
"Today the combination of an excess of deadly force and near-total lack of accountability is more dangerous than ever: Most cops today can pull out their weapons and fire without fear that anything will happen to them, even if they shoot someone wrongfully. All a police officer has to say is that he believes his life was in danger, and he’s typically absolved. What do you think that does to their psychology as they patrol the streets—this sense of invulnerability?"
"Today the combination of an excess of deadly force and near-total lack of accountability is more dangerous than ever: Most cops today can pull out their weapons and fire without fear that anything will happen to them, even if they shoot someone wrongfully. All a police officer has to say is that he believes his life was in danger, and he’s typically absolved. What do you think that does to their psychology as they patrol the streets—this sense of invulnerability?"
5
The nurturing ground for the Blue Wall of Silence is found in police unions.
Unions are for LABORERS - people who are fungible, powerless in society and lack any protection against abuse and exploitation unless they act together in groups. In contrast, police departments are heavily armed powerful groups who have their own society outside of ours, and insist on answering only to their own internal rules. It is a complete mockery and insult to unionism when actual labor unions for laborers have all but vanished, and one of the only places that unions still wield power is to provide impunity for a blue armed force to gun down the powerless and despised.
Unions are for LABORERS - people who are fungible, powerless in society and lack any protection against abuse and exploitation unless they act together in groups. In contrast, police departments are heavily armed powerful groups who have their own society outside of ours, and insist on answering only to their own internal rules. It is a complete mockery and insult to unionism when actual labor unions for laborers have all but vanished, and one of the only places that unions still wield power is to provide impunity for a blue armed force to gun down the powerless and despised.
3
I agree with Mr. Blow. This continual string of police execution of suspects -- especially if black male suspects-- and especially over petty offenses or no offense at all- must end. I am a middle aged white male and I say this.
23
"The video that has now been made public is incredibly disturbing and may prove incontrovertible." Unfortunately, where tribalism trumps facts, everything can be controverted. While they weasel out of this one, the contrarians will go on quoting statistics to prove that Blacks cause their own deaths. Those statistics have been compiled by cops. The death of Scott was put initially in the column of shootings resulting form his criminal activity. The video reveals the lie in that cop's testimony. How many other lies are lurking in the accepted statistics?
In this miserable case, I see the man who shot Scott as a victim too. I don't excuse him. But he represents a large part of the American population, people who are deprived of the very essence of a modern and republican education, people trained to think of Black lives as worthless, and trained to think that lying about a shooting is a good thing.
In this miserable case, I see the man who shot Scott as a victim too. I don't excuse him. But he represents a large part of the American population, people who are deprived of the very essence of a modern and republican education, people trained to think of Black lives as worthless, and trained to think that lying about a shooting is a good thing.
14
The beneficiaries of white supremacy are not victims, but willing participants in a system that demeans and objectifies black people. Let's not excuse something structurally heinous. This isn't some child who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.
It is not just some technicality to add "Yes, but...". He ran!
4
Your point? Let him run, then. The car and the tail light and the license plate remained in place. The tail light is still broken. The car is still functioning. Surely, Mr. Scott would have been easy to locate. But shot to death? Today, James Eagan Holmes, all but forgotten, finally goes on trial for killing a dozen people in Aurora, Colorado. He's alive, but you believe Mr. Scott got what he deserved?
94
Two facts and one opinion:
1) Walter Scott is not on trial, the importance of which is made clear by Charles Blow.
2) Michael Slager is innoncent until found guilty (This from comment by Mark Thomason, Verified and a lawyer, appeared in Times)
3) Opinion: Presumably, a police officer is instructed to stop a car that is missing a lamp (headlamp, brake lamp, turn signal). Presumably, the reason for doing this is to see to it that the non-moving violation is taken care of. In this case the car was said to have been stopped and then parked (one report said it was already parked). The responsibility for repair lies with the owner. Therefore, if the driver chooses to leave and is neither armed nor or engaging in threatening behavior then the decision for the officer should be simple. Impound the car, then locate the owner.
A Times comment several days ago provided an excellent variation on my opinion. Just use the police camera to photograph the car with missing taillight and report the violation.
My recommendation and/or that of the Times commenter remove completely any reason for recording the skin color of the driver and for engaging in a chase.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
1) Walter Scott is not on trial, the importance of which is made clear by Charles Blow.
2) Michael Slager is innoncent until found guilty (This from comment by Mark Thomason, Verified and a lawyer, appeared in Times)
3) Opinion: Presumably, a police officer is instructed to stop a car that is missing a lamp (headlamp, brake lamp, turn signal). Presumably, the reason for doing this is to see to it that the non-moving violation is taken care of. In this case the car was said to have been stopped and then parked (one report said it was already parked). The responsibility for repair lies with the owner. Therefore, if the driver chooses to leave and is neither armed nor or engaging in threatening behavior then the decision for the officer should be simple. Impound the car, then locate the owner.
A Times comment several days ago provided an excellent variation on my opinion. Just use the police camera to photograph the car with missing taillight and report the violation.
My recommendation and/or that of the Times commenter remove completely any reason for recording the skin color of the driver and for engaging in a chase.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
20
Larry: Good post, but point #3--too often such stops are revenue-generating stops.
1
We must analyze all of these killings of unarmed black men, women, and children through the lens of white supremacy. Notice that due process and constitutionally protected rights are discarded when victims of police killings are black. If you must stumble around for justifications in these deaths, and arrive at the conclusion that black victims are inherently born guilty, then that is called racism. A public execution over a broken tail light? Is this really the type of country America wants? Just wait, then. All manner of incivility aimed at blacks usually flows over into society in due course. Your husbands and sons could be next.
14
The shooting of Walter Scott was ghastly & inexplicable. Nonetheless Scott himself was a major contributor to the tragedy. It's a case of gross contributory negligence. It's undeniable that he would be alive today but for his flight and resistance. The best way to reduce the occurrence of such incidents is to reduce the endemic crime that plagues many black communities. I'm a 62 year old African American man who grew up in central Los Angeles so I think I might know something about it.
12
That is NOT the law as articulated by the U.S. Supreme Court. There are VERY limited circumstances in which a cop can legally shoot a fleeing suspect---if the suspect presents a threat to the safety of the officer or to others or if the suspect has committed or is about to commit a violent crime. Contributory negligence does NOT apply in this kind of criminal case!!
And, Just on a human level, the man did not deserve to die because he fled!
And, Just on a human level, the man did not deserve to die because he fled!
4
What makes it "undeniable" that he would be alive had he not run? Ten minutes on Google should be sufficient for any of us to find multiple examples of questionable deaths, in police custody, of people who did not flee or resist. I recall several in my own city alone.
Scott was murdered according to the video. The cop has been appropriately charged and arrested for the crime and will probably serve life in prison when convicted. What more is there to say? What happen here doesn't apply to the other high profile shootings and or other killings that were blown way out of proportion in other police killings of Blacks over the past year. We do however know one thing for sure. If Scott didn't run away like he did from a simple traffic stop he would probably not been shot and killed. I wish people would stop doing stupid stuff when they are stopped by the police. The police do make mistakes in situations where the people they detain or they to arrest behave they way they should not.
6
Wow. So making a bad decision makes you deserving of being shot to death in your back? In that situation, the law doesn't apply?
2
So now being stupid is a capital offense?
I wish people would stop doing stupid stuff too,
but an American population is on a bell shaped curve, not only on intelligence but also on judgement, anxiety. prior experience, sobriety, self -control, mental and emotional illness. Police are there to respond to all of it, just as nurses, doctors, teachers, emergency personnel --you name it. That is what we have signed up for.
Stupid will always be part of human life. Our society is supposed to be able to cope with the hard parts as well as the easy parts.
You are not supposed to kill people simply because someone runs away.
Stupid is not a crime. Killing is a crime, though.
I wish people would stop doing stupid stuff too,
but an American population is on a bell shaped curve, not only on intelligence but also on judgement, anxiety. prior experience, sobriety, self -control, mental and emotional illness. Police are there to respond to all of it, just as nurses, doctors, teachers, emergency personnel --you name it. That is what we have signed up for.
Stupid will always be part of human life. Our society is supposed to be able to cope with the hard parts as well as the easy parts.
You are not supposed to kill people simply because someone runs away.
Stupid is not a crime. Killing is a crime, though.
3
Taking a stance,aiming and firing 8 times is not a mistake!!
4
Video is not evidence.
1
Certainly for the blind, Oyshezelig.
Do some soul-searching.
Do some soul-searching.
18
IF the video is not evidence, what is? The officer's word? I see with my eyes, 8 shots fired into the back of a fleeing man and something taken from the ground and dropped at the victims side. I see a dying man lying face down, handcuffed. I DO NOT see any timely attempts at resuscitation. As in the Eric Gardner case, I see cops standing around. Doing nothing! I read about "inconsistencies" on the police report regarding attempts at resuscitation. What better evidence is there? The officer's word? How can he, or you, justify shooting a fleeing man in the back? Oh, I forgot, the old "I feared for my life" refrain we hear all too often!
18
duh? and just how reliable is a witness's description?
4
The casualness with which Mr. Scott was shot, handcuffed while lying on the ground, and the Taser dropped besides him suggest a police officer comfortable with what he did. The response of the second police officer, suggests agreement. This police officer will become of the face of so-called justice since the preceding, blatant murders of black men (those caught on film) resulted in no convictions. He deserves to be charged, but he will also be the sacrificial lamb to "prove" that murdering an unarmed black men is crime that is punished. I'm a white woman who grew up in a Hispanic ghetto, both witness and victim of police brutality. It's amazing to me that fifty years later little to nothing has changed and that the white population seemingly continues to trust the police. Who took the poll I wonder, since I don't have a single friend, in my middle class circle, who would agree with that.
278
In the teeny tiny print, Source: Gallup, took the poll.
I am a white woman who while in graduate school lived in a black neighborhood in Ithaca, NY (we were the only white family on our block), where the black population is small enough that the black neighborhood comprises only several blocks and includes all classes, from underclass to middle--my next door neighbor was a retired librarian, across the street in the local informal juke joint and drug house lived a convicted murderer who had earned a college degree in prison. I talked to the police several times when they came into the neighborhood for various arrests; the police were surprised I lived there, and I was surprised (I was naive then) to find they made no distinction between lawbreaking and law-abiding citizens. To their eyes, all black people were criminals. I realized that because the police came into the neighborhood only in response to crime, they saw through eyes that generalized, but I am positive that they would not have generalized if the neighborhood had been a white one. Black people were in their eyes guilty because they were black--guilty of being black.
4
"Am I my brother's keeper?" has no relevance nor resonance if the other person is not seen as your brother. And a jury of this officers white peers are likely to see their world through his eyes, heart and mind.
Since Reconstruction about 5000 African Americans have been lynched. Including 14 year old Emmitt Till and 12 year old Tamir Rice and 17 year old Trayvon Martin and 17 year old Jordan Davis and 18 year old Michael Brown.
But for too many white American's the bell tolling for their deaths is not for them
Since Reconstruction about 5000 African Americans have been lynched. Including 14 year old Emmitt Till and 12 year old Tamir Rice and 17 year old Trayvon Martin and 17 year old Jordan Davis and 18 year old Michael Brown.
But for too many white American's the bell tolling for their deaths is not for them
3
Blaming the victim in a case such as this is egregious, but of course we blithely blame the victim in our culture, in lesser cases, all the time. The person with less power is saddled with other people's "stuff."
We also confuse noticing the contributing factors in a chain of causation with assessing the reasonableness of any particular factor.
We dump on lawyers, but if we pay attention while we are in law school, we can actually learn to think more precisely about situations such as this and avoid some of the sloppy thinking this column rightly calls out.
We also confuse noticing the contributing factors in a chain of causation with assessing the reasonableness of any particular factor.
We dump on lawyers, but if we pay attention while we are in law school, we can actually learn to think more precisely about situations such as this and avoid some of the sloppy thinking this column rightly calls out.
12
"Blaming the victim" is a weak strategy used by people who either don't understand that situations are complex, or intentionally refuse to believe it.
Did Scott deserved to die? No. Was he partially responsible for the situation going out of control. Absolutely, especially given the fight with the police officer.
Did Scott deserved to die? No. Was he partially responsible for the situation going out of control. Absolutely, especially given the fight with the police officer.
Trying to see the complexities of reality does not mean opening a "dark door".
The Australian broadcast company has combined the two available videos to the timeline of the police radio. The time from Mr. Scott starting to run from his car to the beginning of the actual shooting is one minute 40 seconds. The officer seems to catch Mr. Scott after 15 seconds chase, because he is heard shouting a warning about using Taser.
It is possible that the rest of the time was spent fighting and wrestling on the ground. There are also rumors that the Taser darts ended up hitting the leg of the officer. The shooting video shows the Taser cable being tangled between the two men, and the police officer is seen in another news video with his pant leg rolled up.
So in the worst case scenario (from Mr. Blow's perspective) behind the dark door there is a storyline that indeed puts Walter Scott on trial - for fighting the police officer and shooting him with the Taser.
Yes, I agree that even in this case the police officer might be guilty of illegal use of force. It is also possible that he will walk out of the court room.
The Australian broadcast company has combined the two available videos to the timeline of the police radio. The time from Mr. Scott starting to run from his car to the beginning of the actual shooting is one minute 40 seconds. The officer seems to catch Mr. Scott after 15 seconds chase, because he is heard shouting a warning about using Taser.
It is possible that the rest of the time was spent fighting and wrestling on the ground. There are also rumors that the Taser darts ended up hitting the leg of the officer. The shooting video shows the Taser cable being tangled between the two men, and the police officer is seen in another news video with his pant leg rolled up.
So in the worst case scenario (from Mr. Blow's perspective) behind the dark door there is a storyline that indeed puts Walter Scott on trial - for fighting the police officer and shooting him with the Taser.
Yes, I agree that even in this case the police officer might be guilty of illegal use of force. It is also possible that he will walk out of the court room.
8
In the United States, you are not executed by police officers fro running away. Killing someone like that is well, murder. Maybe not elsewhere, but it is here
12
And what about Mr. Slager's planting of evidence (i.e., going back to pick up the taser and dropping it by Mr. Scott's side), the inconsistencies in his report and his not attempting to give any kind of first aid, all of which you so blithely ignore?
It is highly improbable that Mr. Slager will walk out of the court in any manner other than to be escorted to prison.
It is highly improbable that Mr. Slager will walk out of the court in any manner other than to be escorted to prison.
13
Nothing justifies this shooting but culpability is a matter of degree and what Blow calls "wondering in the weeds" others might call a search for facts to understand what happened. Never mentioned in the NYT news accounts or editorials is that fact that the shooting took place a full 200 yards from the initial stop and 1 minute 45 seconds after Scott first started running. Its takes about 40 seconds to run 200 yards so that means more than a minute of "scuffle" and "going at it on the floor" as recounted by two eyewitnesses. Eventually Scott knocks the taser out of the officer's hands as we see in the video. At this point Scott is a violent fleeing felon attempting to disarm a lone officer in an isolated location. The officer is scared to death and in his mind this guy is very dangerous and under the Supreme Court ruling that makes it justified. Even if not fully justified, it's hardly "murder" which requires premeditation. It's more like gross workplace negligence in a very high stress situation. Slager was given a gun to shoot suspects in certain situations. The situation here was scary, but not quite scary enough as the danger was diminishing or gone by the time he shot.
11
I just don't see a situation in which a fit, young man, trained in police work and in possession of a gun should be sufficiently in 'fear of his life' from a man twenty years his senior who is running away from him that he feels the need to unload a gun into his back.
This thing where cops are in a constant quaking state of terror so great that they see everyone as a life threatening situation that has to be killed leads me to believe that something is wrong with the policemen,
This thing where cops are in a constant quaking state of terror so great that they see everyone as a life threatening situation that has to be killed leads me to believe that something is wrong with the policemen,
11
Slager cooly, calmly shot Scott in the back. Scott was no threat, either to Slager or anyone else. Your own explanation of why this was "hardly 'murder'" ends with the admission that the "danger was diminishing or gone by the time he shot". Point taken.
All he had to do was call for assistance. They would have searched, wit their guns drawn, and corralled this 50 yr. old man in due time. If he ever became a threat to any of the officers, unnamed as he was, they STILL could have shot him, but Slager shot him in the back and there's no reason on earth for him to have done it.
Nevertheless because he was a cop, this may not go the way we expect. The law leans way out to allow cops to shoot suspects because it doesn't want them to 2nd guess themselves when they have to use deadly force. We give cops guns and then we make it legal to kill.
All he had to do was call for assistance. They would have searched, wit their guns drawn, and corralled this 50 yr. old man in due time. If he ever became a threat to any of the officers, unnamed as he was, they STILL could have shot him, but Slager shot him in the back and there's no reason on earth for him to have done it.
Nevertheless because he was a cop, this may not go the way we expect. The law leans way out to allow cops to shoot suspects because it doesn't want them to 2nd guess themselves when they have to use deadly force. We give cops guns and then we make it legal to kill.
8
First of all, murder does not require premeditation, only murder in the first degree does. And calling shooting someone in the back who is fleeing from you "gross workplace negligence" distorts an act of extreme violence so that is sounds benign. No matter what precipitated the incident, the officer displayed appallingly poor judgement gunning down an unarmed person running away and then attempting to cover up his indiscretion by moving the taser alongside the victim's body.
10
If the officer who killed Mr. Scott tries to bolt from custody, should he be gunned down?
I say no.
Will those who think Mr. Scott's running away justified him being killed argue that killing the police officer in this hypothetical scenario is justified as well?
I say no.
Will those who think Mr. Scott's running away justified him being killed argue that killing the police officer in this hypothetical scenario is justified as well?
24
This nation needs, indeed should demand, a comprehensive plan to deal with police violence. Where is the Congressional leadership on this issue which is crying for a solution? Where are the nation's police and other leaders in our law enforcement system? Our morality and humanity are fading right before our very eyes and, yet, there is no plan, no leadership. Shooting a man in the back as he runs does not seem like America. It seems like a scene from a fifth-world country run by a vicious dictator and a malevolent, evil police force. We need to reclaim our humantiy. Now.
13
Part of the reason the police can pull the trigger for eight times without a second thought about the consequences of his action, he knows nothing will happen to him. His police brethren, the police unions, blue-wall of silence will thwart any attempt seeking to do justice. And the poor black citizen can hardly find his way home at the end of a defeating, emasculating day, and from all the burdens of a complex society, let alone seeking justice in the halls of courthouses, nor can he afford $900/per hour rate for a good trial lawyer. So the system is set up for people who can move in it and afford to purchase relief and remedies. If those are priced far beyond the lower socioeconomic class folks: God help them! because like a meat grinder when you get caught in the machine it pulls you in and and it spits you out as a non-citizen, stripped from what measly rights, albeit only on the books, you had, and they are gone, too.
For the police, who is not touched by any streak of compassion, and he knows he will not pay any price for his crimes there is no brakes installed in his driving psyche.
For the police, who is not touched by any streak of compassion, and he knows he will not pay any price for his crimes there is no brakes installed in his driving psyche.
50
It was two minutes and forty-three seconds before the cop who did the shooting even checked Walter Scott for a pulse.
In the cases of Walter Scott, Tamir Rice and Eric Garner not one policeman even attempted CPR*.
*Most shamefully, in New York City neither did the responding EMT's attempt to resuscitate Eric Garner.
216
By the way, in my one trip to traffic court to fight a ticket, I got to see a parade of men who all were pulled over and fled. There were at least 3 (it was 20 years ago). This is a suburb in NJ and the road was a highway flanked by woods. Like the man here, they fled. The only difference is that they got away. They were all white too.
Like the writer says, police encounter bad behavior all the time. That is (after all) what they do.
Like the writer says, police encounter bad behavior all the time. That is (after all) what they do.
50
The job of the police is essentially to take out our garbage. More often than not that garbage stinks. Over time, that stench builds up and they can't get rid of it, they smell it on everything and everyone they meet. I'm certain police work has a much higher incidence of P.T.S.D. than the military in general, though perhaps not quite as much as that for combat vets. They also operate in an increasingly militarized environment, which contributes to the stress levels as well. On top of all that, I challenge anyone to wear a clean crisp uniform every day, and wear a ponderous duty belt all day with a minimum of handcuffs, taser, service weapon and flashlight, and sit in a cruiser comfortably or run after suspects efficiently. The job is difficult, and decidedly not for everyone. It's become increasingly obvious there are some doing the work who are clearly not qualified.
In this case, the "system" worked, albeit after the fact. In many of the other recent instances it failed, either by not weeding out bad apples before the fact or protecting them after. I can't imagine why the officer didn't just give chase or call for backup (maybe he did?), but it wasn't a felony stop so his "final solution" was way out of proportion. When I watch the calmness and deliberation with which he draws and fires, I get the feeling that the stench had just built up to a tipping point for him, right then and there. Had he shot during the struggle for the taser, if there was one, he might have skated.
In this case, the "system" worked, albeit after the fact. In many of the other recent instances it failed, either by not weeding out bad apples before the fact or protecting them after. I can't imagine why the officer didn't just give chase or call for backup (maybe he did?), but it wasn't a felony stop so his "final solution" was way out of proportion. When I watch the calmness and deliberation with which he draws and fires, I get the feeling that the stench had just built up to a tipping point for him, right then and there. Had he shot during the struggle for the taser, if there was one, he might have skated.
1
It is the casualness with which the officer fired that gun that leaves me so disturbed.
Clearly, the gun should never have been used, a man was running way, terrified. But the officer looked like he was shooting at a paper target, not a flesh and blood man with a life of his own and loved ones who will miss him.
Clearly, the gun should never have been used, a man was running way, terrified. But the officer looked like he was shooting at a paper target, not a flesh and blood man with a life of his own and loved ones who will miss him.
188
While I don't agree at all with the shooting, I have no problem with how the officer looked.
The last thing you want is a police officer looking terrified while shooting. He will miss, and those stray bullets will find targets, possibly other people.
The last thing you want is a police officer looking terrified while shooting. He will miss, and those stray bullets will find targets, possibly other people.
In Europe police officers do not routinely carry weapons. Will someone please tell me, one more time, why our police officers always carry weapons.
5
Mr Blow illustrates a fatal deficiency in what passes for public dialogue in our present society in stating that: "Anyone who argues this obdurate absurdity reveals a deficiency in their own humanity".
Yes, I agree with his disparagement of the belief in question, but in order for dialogue to exist, differing opinions must be tolerated no matter how offensive we may find them. And we must remember that in our society there is no right not to be offended. If there were, free speech would be meaningless.
Questioning the humanity of one's opponents puts an end to dialogue and creates the hostile public gridlock that we see today.
Yes, I agree with his disparagement of the belief in question, but in order for dialogue to exist, differing opinions must be tolerated no matter how offensive we may find them. And we must remember that in our society there is no right not to be offended. If there were, free speech would be meaningless.
Questioning the humanity of one's opponents puts an end to dialogue and creates the hostile public gridlock that we see today.
29
The shooting of a fleeing, unarmed suspect in the back is not a matter of opinion, it is a violation of law.
16
You are defeating your own argument. Is Mr Blow not free to QUESTION the humanity of those who are putting up obdurately absurd argument? How does his questioning put an end to the argument? Hostile public gridlock? Where have you been in the past six years when people have made and continue to make absurd assertions about President Barack Obama? Gridlock on what issues? Mr Blow chose not to mince his words and I applaud him for it.
22
A man is dead! That is the fact. Humans do not deserve to die at the hand of fellow humans; nature and problems surrounding accidental death do an excellent job of decimating our numbers prematurely without fellow human getting involved in the process of killing us; therefore it is perfectly legitimate to question the humanity of people who cannot show empathy for the death of fellow humans. People who smoke do not deserve to die. People who drink do not deserve to die. People who get shot by cops do not deserve to die. Many fellow humans cannot get it through their heads that other humans do not deserve to die. To say that a person deserves to die is a judgment call that requires deep consideration that is often ignored.
21
Right, it’s he same pattern again. The police cannot be indicted and jailed, because then our law and order will be threatened. So no matter what they do we have to find an excuse that lets us seem to conform to our Bill of Rights. That means finding anything that can blame the victim, and juries will grasp it to avoid blaming the cop.
There’s a long road to travel between charging and arresting the officer in SC for murder and actually convicting and sentencing him. While you’re giving us statistics, how many cops have ever been imprisoned for this? Why and how?
You say, “The poll results don’t surprise experts on American attitudes toward police.” What about experts on police in other democracies in the world? What’s the rate of officer homicide? Could the 6 officers who gang- murdered Eric Garner ever go free in other modern countries, if it even could happen?
The main question is, what do police elsewhere do when a suspect runs, or resists?? And do they have cameras??
We need some discussion of comparative international data and attitudes to see our own problems clearly. I have yet to see this in the Times, not in op ed, national, or metro sections, despite all the discussion of police murder and brutality. Why is this?
There’s a long road to travel between charging and arresting the officer in SC for murder and actually convicting and sentencing him. While you’re giving us statistics, how many cops have ever been imprisoned for this? Why and how?
You say, “The poll results don’t surprise experts on American attitudes toward police.” What about experts on police in other democracies in the world? What’s the rate of officer homicide? Could the 6 officers who gang- murdered Eric Garner ever go free in other modern countries, if it even could happen?
The main question is, what do police elsewhere do when a suspect runs, or resists?? And do they have cameras??
We need some discussion of comparative international data and attitudes to see our own problems clearly. I have yet to see this in the Times, not in op ed, national, or metro sections, despite all the discussion of police murder and brutality. Why is this?
23
How about comparative discussion on the number of guns in the U.S. and other "civilized" countries.
11
Comparison of the United States to other nations, except to say that it is the greatest, bestest, most freedom-wonderful, happiest place on earth is un-American and will get you bounced from the front page or evening news and certainly from the Sunday talkfests.
American exceptionalism is a fragile concept that must be nurtured and protected to flourish.
American exceptionalism is a fragile concept that must be nurtured and protected to flourish.
10
Mr. Blow made a comment that Walter Scott is not on trial; that is true for some but not for all. Police place the blame for the death os suspects on the suspects and we know the entire history of the suspect that was killed, and not even the name or history of the cop that killed him.
Fairness is not for African Americans and other people of color. People have said that African Americans have been persecuted for the last one hundred years and it appears that is the case. We went from Jim Crow and segregation to the war on drugs, which translated to the incarceration of African Americans only.
There was a second policeman that came upon the scene and witnessed the planting of evidence and also did not administer CPR. What happened to the second cop who also filed an erroneous report?
Fairness is not for African Americans and other people of color. People have said that African Americans have been persecuted for the last one hundred years and it appears that is the case. We went from Jim Crow and segregation to the war on drugs, which translated to the incarceration of African Americans only.
There was a second policeman that came upon the scene and witnessed the planting of evidence and also did not administer CPR. What happened to the second cop who also filed an erroneous report?
27
This is just the 21st century version of the slave patrols, only now on camera for all to see and make up their own minds.
Is this what would happen to a rich, Caucasian? Doubtful.
Is this what would happen to a rich, Caucasian? Doubtful.
7
Dear Mr. Blow,
Time has ceased for any number of black men this year. It has gotten so bad that reading any account of black men being arrested versus being shot or choked or beaten is reported incredulously by news organizations like Drew Curtis's Fark: that is, a "normal" arrest, like that which occurs for most white "perps", is treated as something unique, newsworthy and unlikely.
Yet white America sees no problem. When talking to any conservatives, they generally mention things like "he resisted" or "he ran away" as if such actions totally justify taking a life.
Police officers have a difficult job and it's all too easy for them to continually "profile" the world they work in. When I owned my business, I got to know most of the police in the community and to a man, they were, if white, prone to judge anyone of color as a potential "suspect" (My store was in a very wealthy suburb of Hartford, Ct.).
Basically, back in the 80's and 90's, if you were black and walking down the main street, you were "out of place" and scrutinized more completely than if you were "white and well dressed".
It seems that attitude has not only not changed but has gotten very lethal, a trend that must be stopped.
The first steps must be done by the mayors and town councils demanding more accountability in the hiring and training of police. Getting rid of the really "bad apples" would be a start.
Time has ceased for any number of black men this year. It has gotten so bad that reading any account of black men being arrested versus being shot or choked or beaten is reported incredulously by news organizations like Drew Curtis's Fark: that is, a "normal" arrest, like that which occurs for most white "perps", is treated as something unique, newsworthy and unlikely.
Yet white America sees no problem. When talking to any conservatives, they generally mention things like "he resisted" or "he ran away" as if such actions totally justify taking a life.
Police officers have a difficult job and it's all too easy for them to continually "profile" the world they work in. When I owned my business, I got to know most of the police in the community and to a man, they were, if white, prone to judge anyone of color as a potential "suspect" (My store was in a very wealthy suburb of Hartford, Ct.).
Basically, back in the 80's and 90's, if you were black and walking down the main street, you were "out of place" and scrutinized more completely than if you were "white and well dressed".
It seems that attitude has not only not changed but has gotten very lethal, a trend that must be stopped.
The first steps must be done by the mayors and town councils demanding more accountability in the hiring and training of police. Getting rid of the really "bad apples" would be a start.
26
Totally right - we should not be blaming the victim by saying "he shouldn't have run." The questions are: should the punishment for running be death? Is the police response in proportion to the infraction? People who say "but he shouldn't have run" don't seem to unequivocally answer NO to these questions.
How many of us haven't done stupid things when we're afraid? Walter Scott ran. Did he deserve to die? No. What if he had pushed the policeman. Would have have deserved the death penalty for this? No. The police do not get to be judge, jury and executioner..... do do they? The answer seems to be, in a lot of cases Yes they do. There must be stringent reporting and investigation of police firing their weapons. This should be tracked nationally. And each discharge should be much more heavily questioned. The bar for justification must be significantly raised. "I was afraid" shouldn't necessarily be enough. And I'm not so sure, "he was going for my taser" should have been enough either. Not only because it was patently untrue in this case, but because "going for" a weapon and "the person took my weapon and pointed it at me" are two different things.
How many of us haven't done stupid things when we're afraid? Walter Scott ran. Did he deserve to die? No. What if he had pushed the policeman. Would have have deserved the death penalty for this? No. The police do not get to be judge, jury and executioner..... do do they? The answer seems to be, in a lot of cases Yes they do. There must be stringent reporting and investigation of police firing their weapons. This should be tracked nationally. And each discharge should be much more heavily questioned. The bar for justification must be significantly raised. "I was afraid" shouldn't necessarily be enough. And I'm not so sure, "he was going for my taser" should have been enough either. Not only because it was patently untrue in this case, but because "going for" a weapon and "the person took my weapon and pointed it at me" are two different things.
67
How many of us haven't done stupid things when we're afraid? Great question. Fear makes us do really stupid things. My husband and I have been watching "Cops" since its inception. Although I don't buy into the show as pure "reality", over and and over I am struck by the reasons people give the police for running: I had some traffic tickets. Or, I think I might have a warrant. Or, I don't have insurance on my car. And on and on. It seems crazy to run for such minor reasons. But adrenaline has no logical side. It screams to our brain: Run! Just run!
Mr. Scott certainly had reason to be afraid. Who knows why he ran? What does it matter? The punishment for running should never be death.
Mr. Scott certainly had reason to be afraid. Who knows why he ran? What does it matter? The punishment for running should never be death.
6
The headline of your commentary, though you may not have intended such, tells a very complete BEGINNING of story of the shooting: "Walter Scott Is Not On Trial". As has become so obvious and so predictable, Scott - to most observers of the matter - has already been accused, charged, tried and convicted and so should receive the death penalty. "The fault, Horatio, lies entirely within ourselves". There are many faults, enough to be shared by all of us, mostly through hindsight, as we repeatedly prove.
5
We are still talking about South Carolina. There's a good chance the police officers involved will be acquitted.
29
As I recently read in a lawyer's ad: "Just because you did it doesn't mean you're guilty."
9
Collecting more data is a fine idea, but I'm not sure that it will lead anywhere. I learned from a wise statistics professor in college that data is like a weak spy; it will tell you anything you want as long as you torture it enough.
Republicans have figured this out and are grand masters of torturing factual data. The more data points we gather, the more they will twist them into tortured red herrings like black-on-black crime. I admire your optimism, Mr. Blow, but I don't believe a discussion of statistical data will produce results, because the discussion involves disingenuous parties.
The only data points we need to collect are the truly incontrovertible kind like the video shot and heroically brought forward by Feidin Santana. The kind that leaves defenders of police violence stammering because there's no way to twist it into a defense of cold-blooded murder.
Republicans have figured this out and are grand masters of torturing factual data. The more data points we gather, the more they will twist them into tortured red herrings like black-on-black crime. I admire your optimism, Mr. Blow, but I don't believe a discussion of statistical data will produce results, because the discussion involves disingenuous parties.
The only data points we need to collect are the truly incontrovertible kind like the video shot and heroically brought forward by Feidin Santana. The kind that leaves defenders of police violence stammering because there's no way to twist it into a defense of cold-blooded murder.
40
Unfortunately, “social justice, equal treatment and violence exerted by structures of power against a vulnerable population” are as much a bedrock of our country as the constitution in many sad ways. As with all foundations, they are almost impossible to permanently rectify without tearing up and replacing the broken one. All you can do is repair the intermittent cracks that appear, but new ones will always surface in different spots; whether due to the original faults or from the repairs meant to fix past fractures. Hopefully, one day, we will find the political will to begin swapping out the damaged portions of stone instead of just plastering over the cracks.
9
As usual, Mr. Blow, you pinpoint the moral issues involved with a sure instinct. It would seem that some officers have misread the slogan on the side of many police cars, "serve and protect," as "occupy and suppress." I wonder if there is not a tendency among some officers to interpret any form of resistance (including running or harsh language) as disrespect for themselves personally. I taught school for more than thirty years, and I observed in myself a temptation to regard a student's resistance to discipline as an attack on my sense of self-worth. Any officer who yields to that very human urge might well respond much more violently than one who understands that the suspect's reaction is not personal.
53
What I am not hearing much discussion of, from Ferguson to N. Charleston, is the phenomenon of "police rage", the adrenalin-fueled mental state that seems to occur in every car chase and regularly in many footraces, struggles or acts of resistance by suspects. Controlling this reaction to personal affront used to be a cornerstone of proper police conduct, difficult as it is to maintain under trying circumstances. This "lizard brain" reaction, like that when an alpha male dog expects total subservience is in stark discord with "protect and serve". Law enforcement of late seems to promulgate a pack attitude that whatever happens in any confrontation, the suspect must, at minimum, go belly up and kowtow to the inquiring officer. Good cops handle these situations with ample respect and admirable restraint. The rest go red-faced with adrenalin and explode in dominant hubris, knowing they'll get the unquestioned support of their co-workers and superiors. It used to be an isolated problem. It now seems to be institutional.
22
Is steroid use and abuse on the rise in our police and sheriff's departments? That might partly explain the rage, overreaction, unacceptable levels of force, and sometimes overkill by LE around the country. I don't know if the police are subjected to regular drug screenings, that include tests for the presence of anabolic steroids in the system, but they should be.
4
This "stalk(ing) around for a back door" by various commentators was not only disturbing, it was despicable. And it was offered by white people, all of whom seem to harbor the idea in their heads that if a white police officer kills a black "suspect" then he must have a very good reason for doing so. And that our system is predicated on us not asking why he did so. This is dangerous lunacy. Why can't they just say that all available evidence strongly suggests that Office Slager made a horrific judgment error? There is no other conclusion one can draw from the video clip, none.
187
But especially if one is of low albedo complexion, one must treat the police as if they are armed maniacs. Move slowly, let them claim their alpha male status unchallenged, and emerge from the encounter alive.
101
Sometimes that's not even enough. In the age before smartphones, it was always the officer's word over the word of others. And the officer is going to be believed most of the time. Imagine that power and what it can do to an officer's attitudes and behaviors toward the people in the community they work in. It's scary.
There is only one remedy. People, when observing an interaction between police and individuals, should instictively pull out their smartphones and start recording. If the police have a problem with that, they have only themselves to blame.
There is only one remedy. People, when observing an interaction between police and individuals, should instictively pull out their smartphones and start recording. If the police have a problem with that, they have only themselves to blame.
19
As someone who is darker than most blacks, I know you are completely off base.
I have been stopped a few times during my 33 years of driving. Other than the time in my teens when I was stupidly driving 30 miles over the speed limit, I have always been treated with respect by the police officer. Perhaps it is because I start by treating the officer with respect.
I have been stopped a few times during my 33 years of driving. Other than the time in my teens when I was stupidly driving 30 miles over the speed limit, I have always been treated with respect by the police officer. Perhaps it is because I start by treating the officer with respect.
1
And what about the guy in SC (again) who was shot by police officer after retrieving his license as ordered? He treated the cop with respect but he was shot.
Sometimes, "respecting authoritah" does not prevent being shot at by a cop.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/25/sean-groubert-fired-arrested_n_...
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/25/justice/south-carolina-trooper-shooting/
Sometimes, "respecting authoritah" does not prevent being shot at by a cop.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/25/sean-groubert-fired-arrested_n_...
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/25/justice/south-carolina-trooper-shooting/
3
It'a always bound to end the same
We're locked in a you-can't-win game
Psychopaths with guns
Make sure the victim runs
The explanation's always lame.
The anti-Black venom persists
And every effort resists,
In frustration,despair,
One can tear out one's hair,
Unceasing, names add to the lists.
We're locked in a you-can't-win game
Psychopaths with guns
Make sure the victim runs
The explanation's always lame.
The anti-Black venom persists
And every effort resists,
In frustration,despair,
One can tear out one's hair,
Unceasing, names add to the lists.
129
Dear Larry, you are without a doubt my favorite commenter! Not only do you brighten up my day with your verses, but you practically always manage to hit the proverbial nail on its proverbial head - keep 'em coming!
6
"Is there anything, under American jurisprudence and universal moral law, that justifies the taking of this man’s life?
All else wanders into the weeds."
As we grow more culturally poor, less educated, and more financially-weary, in an economy that still isn't what it needs to be for all of us to thrive, those among us who have a paternalistic, militaristic, and authoritarian bent are winning the day by playing on fears or creating them.
115 people were killed by police, that we know of last month. Whether they were completely innocent or not is beside the point. Like Walter Scott, they should have all had their right to live, a basic human right, respected. Some of the people who died should have been left to go. Whatever their issue, should have been left for another day. No one should die because of a broken headlight. No one should die because of non-payment of child support. Everyone should survive a police encounter, no matter the reason. Every police officer's goal should always be to arrest, if need be, and ensure their charge gets to the station alive. Policing has never included the mass-killing of our fellow citizens.
Our law enforcement officials' ideas of what is right and wrong is upside down. We need to set them straight.
Not one more death! No more!
---
The man who was beaten by #SanBernadino deputies is white. Now what?
http://www.rimaregas.com/2015/04/the-man-who-was-beaten-by-san-bernadino...
All else wanders into the weeds."
As we grow more culturally poor, less educated, and more financially-weary, in an economy that still isn't what it needs to be for all of us to thrive, those among us who have a paternalistic, militaristic, and authoritarian bent are winning the day by playing on fears or creating them.
115 people were killed by police, that we know of last month. Whether they were completely innocent or not is beside the point. Like Walter Scott, they should have all had their right to live, a basic human right, respected. Some of the people who died should have been left to go. Whatever their issue, should have been left for another day. No one should die because of a broken headlight. No one should die because of non-payment of child support. Everyone should survive a police encounter, no matter the reason. Every police officer's goal should always be to arrest, if need be, and ensure their charge gets to the station alive. Policing has never included the mass-killing of our fellow citizens.
Our law enforcement officials' ideas of what is right and wrong is upside down. We need to set them straight.
Not one more death! No more!
---
The man who was beaten by #SanBernadino deputies is white. Now what?
http://www.rimaregas.com/2015/04/the-man-who-was-beaten-by-san-bernadino...
169
Three pretty horrendous new cases have come to light since we learned about Walter Scott:
Sheriff's Office: Reserve deputy who fired fatal shot was among 'lots of' wealthy donors in reserve program
http://m.tulsaworld.com/newshomepage1/sheriff-s-office-reserve-deputy-wh...
Caught on Cam: Longer Video of Arrest of Vineland Man Who Died in Police Custody http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Phillip-White-Longer-Video-Vin...
Fairfax jail inmate in Taser death was shackled http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/fairfax-jail-inmate-who-died-w...
Sheriff's Office: Reserve deputy who fired fatal shot was among 'lots of' wealthy donors in reserve program
http://m.tulsaworld.com/newshomepage1/sheriff-s-office-reserve-deputy-wh...
Caught on Cam: Longer Video of Arrest of Vineland Man Who Died in Police Custody http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Phillip-White-Longer-Video-Vin...
Fairfax jail inmate in Taser death was shackled http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/fairfax-jail-inmate-who-died-w...
17
This case is pretty disgusting. A "good cop" spoke up about a cop who has no business being a cop. Apparently, nothing can be done...
Cop with ‘dead body’ fetish caught ‘tickling’ corpse after it’s shot by officer — and it’s deemed legal http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/04/cop-with-dead-body-fetish-caught-tick...
Cop with ‘dead body’ fetish caught ‘tickling’ corpse after it’s shot by officer — and it’s deemed legal http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/04/cop-with-dead-body-fetish-caught-tick...
16
as a woman with a disabled son who was beaten senseless by an officer while he was handcuffed in the backseat of a police car, had two broken jaws and left in jail for ten days without medical care i concur with your outrage - times ten.
i look for your comments because you exude intelligence and authenticity
thanks
i look for your comments because you exude intelligence and authenticity
thanks
18