Police vehicle camera footage now released. There is a critical gap in seeing what actually happened. People have jumped to conclusions (yet again) based on a specific time frame of video, shot from a specific angle with biased attendant commentary.
The driver was stopped for a valid reason and POLITELY asked to provide license and registration (perfectly normal). Questionable reasons for not producing proof of ownership and registration (I'd immediately be wondering if the car was stolen). Driver tries to exit vehicle (very bad move), he is POLITELY told to remain in the vehicle. Driver then RUNS from the scene!
We now have the gap in video coverage. A physical altercation ensues. That is the defining moment of where this situation escalated from an officer just chasing a fleeing suspect (driver is now A FLEEING SUSPECT, no longer just a routine traffic stop here anymore).
I can't say emphatically enough that the actions of the driver/suspect led to his own demise. If you don't want to get shot by a police officer, don't run from the scene, don't physically attack the officer and don't grab for the officer's weapon. We were not there. We were not in the situation. We were not the people involved. Enough jumping to conclusions and convicting a peace officer who appears to me to have been competently doing his job.
As my father (a police officer of 40 years) always told me: just say "Yes, Sir ". or "No, Sir". That's all this driver needed to do to avoid what happened.
The driver was stopped for a valid reason and POLITELY asked to provide license and registration (perfectly normal). Questionable reasons for not producing proof of ownership and registration (I'd immediately be wondering if the car was stolen). Driver tries to exit vehicle (very bad move), he is POLITELY told to remain in the vehicle. Driver then RUNS from the scene!
We now have the gap in video coverage. A physical altercation ensues. That is the defining moment of where this situation escalated from an officer just chasing a fleeing suspect (driver is now A FLEEING SUSPECT, no longer just a routine traffic stop here anymore).
I can't say emphatically enough that the actions of the driver/suspect led to his own demise. If you don't want to get shot by a police officer, don't run from the scene, don't physically attack the officer and don't grab for the officer's weapon. We were not there. We were not in the situation. We were not the people involved. Enough jumping to conclusions and convicting a peace officer who appears to me to have been competently doing his job.
As my father (a police officer of 40 years) always told me: just say "Yes, Sir ". or "No, Sir". That's all this driver needed to do to avoid what happened.
Why is it that the truth never comes out. White people are scared of black people. Right or wrong , that by God's grace is the problem.
Why are white people afraid of black people?
Why are white people afraid of black people?
1
Seems like that officer abuse his fire power with perception of shhit to kill when things not going his way. That officer seems forget he works for people pay by the people to serve the people maintain public security. Perhaps he mistaken he been handed over unlimited power to execute someone who break the law even he himself breaking the law to do so. Remind me Wild Wild West in the movie. Sheriff with fire power is the law.
How will things ever get better? Racism must be confronted. In a congressional hearing of epic proportions. That all men have the right to Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. But, must one confront the other squarely. What is the problem?
Why do white police officers use lethal force, when obviously it is not necessary?
The big question why has the greatest nation in history still killing people.
Why not use another less leathal way of apprehending suspects.
But having said that a Mexican national twice deported killed two officers in Ca.
There was little made of it.
For the life of me I cannot imagine seeing what a police officer sees.
For this reason they scare me.
Why do white police officers use lethal force, when obviously it is not necessary?
The big question why has the greatest nation in history still killing people.
Why not use another less leathal way of apprehending suspects.
But having said that a Mexican national twice deported killed two officers in Ca.
There was little made of it.
For the life of me I cannot imagine seeing what a police officer sees.
For this reason they scare me.
In their zeal police take extreme measures to catch wrongdoers and make them accountable for their wrongs even for minor infractions, but should they be the wrongdoers they hide behind the lame excuse and the blue wall of silence. We ALL should be accountable for our actions. No cover ups please. A police officer lied on a report and subsequently the perps got away with what theye did to me and I was then harrassed and monitored by those police in my own neighborhood. Police still have a wrong idea about me. They do not understand that I was targeted by a psychopath and they were manipulated having false reports made against me. All persons making a police report should sign their statement with the understanding that if it becomes known that they lied they will be charged under the law and punished severely. Same for the cop. These cops have changed what I had said and put fiction on police reports making me the suspect! I am a white middle aged woman and I have been harrassed and terrorized by police and I saw how police walked backing away from car with hands next to gun ready to draw. A black man was stopped. What I don't get is that they HAD the drivers licence and registration and I would think they had run his plates. This was a simple driving infraction! What did they "think" would happen? I take the bus so I see these things and the black people waiting for the bus with me had to explain to me that they were watching their backs.
1
Mr. Fialko said he once represented an officer in a case where a dashboard camera had captured the officer slamming a man, who appeared to offer no resistance, to the ground. The officer testified in his own defense.
“Video can lie,” Mr. Fialko recalled saying in his closing argument. “The cop is the one out there, hearing what the guy is saying and smelling the guy and seeing his sweat, and he is acting based on years of experience.”
The jury, Mr. Fialko said, acquitted the officer.
_______________
Ah yes, in the past the jury might have acquitted the officer but after this video of Walter Scotts murder, and COVER UP, I think the jury is going to be a lot less trusting of the police in the USA.
“Video can lie,” Mr. Fialko recalled saying in his closing argument. “The cop is the one out there, hearing what the guy is saying and smelling the guy and seeing his sweat, and he is acting based on years of experience.”
The jury, Mr. Fialko said, acquitted the officer.
_______________
Ah yes, in the past the jury might have acquitted the officer but after this video of Walter Scotts murder, and COVER UP, I think the jury is going to be a lot less trusting of the police in the USA.
It is terrible that a criminal died.
Please report on Scott's multiple non-moving violations: broken tail light, driving with no registration or insurance, lying to police officer, failure to follow orders, resisting/fleeing arrest.
It was reasonable that such a criminal might be dangerous after the sewuence of events and his flight from arrest. Just WHY did Scott not follow police orders and flee? Why? Did the officer only use his weapon when his stun gun failed and Scott was in flight? Resisting arrest. Was the vehicle STOLEN?
Of course this incident will be reported that this was an ordinary law-abiding cooperative unarmed man out for a drive in his own car and a police officer decided to murder him.
Please report on Scott's multiple non-moving violations: broken tail light, driving with no registration or insurance, lying to police officer, failure to follow orders, resisting/fleeing arrest.
It was reasonable that such a criminal might be dangerous after the sewuence of events and his flight from arrest. Just WHY did Scott not follow police orders and flee? Why? Did the officer only use his weapon when his stun gun failed and Scott was in flight? Resisting arrest. Was the vehicle STOLEN?
Of course this incident will be reported that this was an ordinary law-abiding cooperative unarmed man out for a drive in his own car and a police officer decided to murder him.
In Britain, Bobbies do not carry guns ...just riot sticks and a walkie talkie. Does that explain why you hardly hear anyone dying needlessly ?
The problem does not lie in the selection of officers but in the training of officers. It seems, they are taught to exert power above all else immediately to undermine the human being in the apprehended. A tactic that is shockingly inhuman and it is meant to make the apprehended succumb to anything and everything the officer wants of him...no ifs or buts.
Essentially, it is a very military thing and meant to undermine any resistance.
With that kind of power staring one in the face, it is not unusual that some in society either wet their pants each time they are stopped or they resist. In America, if you resist for your rights, you are labelled something or the other.
The solution lies in training individuals to value human life more and just like an officer wants to go home in one piece, the officer has to be taught that any one they apprehend deserves the same courtesy.
Anything else wreaks of homophobia, bigotry,false superiority and licenced injustice.
The problem does not lie in the selection of officers but in the training of officers. It seems, they are taught to exert power above all else immediately to undermine the human being in the apprehended. A tactic that is shockingly inhuman and it is meant to make the apprehended succumb to anything and everything the officer wants of him...no ifs or buts.
Essentially, it is a very military thing and meant to undermine any resistance.
With that kind of power staring one in the face, it is not unusual that some in society either wet their pants each time they are stopped or they resist. In America, if you resist for your rights, you are labelled something or the other.
The solution lies in training individuals to value human life more and just like an officer wants to go home in one piece, the officer has to be taught that any one they apprehend deserves the same courtesy.
Anything else wreaks of homophobia, bigotry,false superiority and licenced injustice.
1
If I were the guy who recorded this, I will withhold the tape until after hearing what that police say about what happen. That way, people will know that police lie and commit crimes too.
I am a white Hispanic American who has lived in many small towns as well as NYC. Racism is very much alive and strong in America and the continued senseless murder of my fellow African American brothers is living proof of that. Any one who excuses the legally sanctioned execution of Americans by America's Police is either a cop, relative of a cop, a crooked judge, someone who will profit from that murder, or the murderer and their accomplices. Every officer, including the African American second responder that witnessed first hand the "planting of evidence" should ALL be fired and jailed. Mr. President, Mr. O'bama, when are you going to get off your rear end and stop the continued sanctioned excused murdering of Americans during your watch? When will you exercise your authority to stop this rather than create another "psycho babble yabble lets make it look like we care committee"? America, record, record, and protect yourselves and fellow brothers and sisters against the machine of organized sanctioned legally protected crime. Let the world know the truth of the hypocrisy of America and who exactly is doing the crimes and doing nothing...Mr. President!
Albeit infrequently, some police officers are serving as jurors, judge, and executioner for minor offenses and frequently for no offense other than simply feeling insulted. This is a national problem, and it needs to stop.
4
All citizens should learn how to use the video capabilities of their smart phones -- for justice and for self defense.
1
uncomfortable about being taped because they do not have control of the "situation" - horse pucky. Can't lie about what went down when their judgement went south and brute force took over.
3
Technology & social media are driving rapid change in the consumer marketplace. Social media is a terrific conduit of information and the private sector knows it. Public entities like the police must find a way to rapidly adapt to our demand for much higher standards. The rapid firing and charging of the North Charleston officer is a good start.
2
While the debate about this atrocity centers around criminality and police training, I continue to believe that a well=trained responsive police force is essential to our democracy. I believe that most in our police forces are upstanding law-abiding citizens in their own right. One angle that has not been covered is the fact that many police are under constant stress and fear for their lives, and probably suffer from a form of PTSD. We need to look at our police forces as a vital need for our society and get them the psychological help and training they need.
Don't be silly. These few officers reflect the number of people in the population with personality disorders, fearful or bullies, etc. The perp was running away and had done nothing. Police had his vehicle - pick him up later.
Like the emotionally unstable police officer kicked out of one program due to instability and got on with Cleveland. Murdered a kid with a toy rifle because he panicked.
Like the emotionally unstable police officer kicked out of one program due to instability and got on with Cleveland. Murdered a kid with a toy rifle because he panicked.
2
How well paid are these cops ? Is the job one sought after by many as the police jobs are in Nassau and Suffolk counties here on Long Island ? Did they take whoever they could get or can the police of Charleston be selective in their hiring of new officers ? Then there are the questions of what kind of psychological examination and police training is required before sending an armed man out in public with a badge ? I'm sure the Civil Lawsuit for wrongful death will air a lot of these facts in the year ahead.
Meanwhile I will pray for everyone involved, especially all the innocent people who will be harmed by this merciless and cruel criminal act. God will undoubtedly be more merciful to Mister Scott than Officer Slager demonstrated.
Meanwhile I will pray for everyone involved, especially all the innocent people who will be harmed by this merciless and cruel criminal act. God will undoubtedly be more merciful to Mister Scott than Officer Slager demonstrated.
2
I just want to see the video without any edits: captions, slow motion.
That wasn't murder, that was an execution, plain and simple.
5
All the training in the world is not going to help unless a crucial item is addressed: the guns floating around on the streets of America. Even I, a relatively slightly built person of Indian origin in his fifties, who hates guns and has no violent tendencies, have witnessed a policeman in my side view mirror approaching my stopped car with his hands hovering near his gun. It is not a pleasant sight. I have read enough to know I should keep my hands visible and not move, etc. Come on, is this really warranted for a speeding ticket or a busted taillight? But looking at it from the point of view of the cop, I could just whip out a handgun and start firing at any time... and he wants to go home safe at the end of the day. The only solution - get rid of guns. We should start now, and hopefully we will realign ourselves culturally with respect to guns some years down the road.
7
??? Walter Scott was unarmed and this policeman knew it.
4
In public spaces everyone should be wearing a video camera. All vehicles should have 360 degrees recording outside and inside.
If that sounds disturbing, ask yourself why. Sure, everyone prizes and demands privacy because they don't want to be wrongly judged, sometimes frivolously. Being monitored can bring stress and fear of losing freedom and rights.
But the dark side of anonymous actions is lack accountability. A seemingly normal person can act like a jerk driving a car because he doesn't have to face every day the people he cuts off on the road. A rogue cop doesn't have worry about being a judge and executioner if nobody can contradict his statements. Bystander's video is change all this.
Here is a suggestion to make ubiquitous video recording more palatable.
All video recording should be the property of the person doing the recording. The video must be encrypted such that only the owner can unlock it. Using the Fifth Amendment the owner must never be forced to unlock the video to incriminate themselves even the police. If you can't produce a video, then this will be deemed very suspicious and erase all credibility in the eyes of the jury. The more people do the recording, the less likely you can hide your action.
Urgently need a law that forbids people from posting videos in public or in private with the intent to pass judgment or punish. Video must first be assessed by media, government, or elected community representatives.
If that sounds disturbing, ask yourself why. Sure, everyone prizes and demands privacy because they don't want to be wrongly judged, sometimes frivolously. Being monitored can bring stress and fear of losing freedom and rights.
But the dark side of anonymous actions is lack accountability. A seemingly normal person can act like a jerk driving a car because he doesn't have to face every day the people he cuts off on the road. A rogue cop doesn't have worry about being a judge and executioner if nobody can contradict his statements. Bystander's video is change all this.
Here is a suggestion to make ubiquitous video recording more palatable.
All video recording should be the property of the person doing the recording. The video must be encrypted such that only the owner can unlock it. Using the Fifth Amendment the owner must never be forced to unlock the video to incriminate themselves even the police. If you can't produce a video, then this will be deemed very suspicious and erase all credibility in the eyes of the jury. The more people do the recording, the less likely you can hide your action.
Urgently need a law that forbids people from posting videos in public or in private with the intent to pass judgment or punish. Video must first be assessed by media, government, or elected community representatives.
It seems to me that the problem extends far beyond wearing a body camera. Maybe that would change an officer's actions, maybe not. But that's what I believe should be the focus: their behavior. It's absolutely ridiculous that he thought it necessary to shoot a man who was running away from him. It MIGHT be different if the guy had thrown a punch, or took the officer to the ground. But he didn't. He ran away. There's no reason to shoot a man that you pulled over just at a traffic stop because he's running away. There's no logic in that.
3
Ferguson excluded as I don't know how a single officer could have done anything else in that situation, certainly this instance and the NY one and others make absolutely no sense. First, when the 'perp' is being sought/attempted to be arrested for minor crimes (tail light, child support, Really?????!!!!) and there is high probability that the person can be found later, why not just let them go??? Second, new jobs program, expensive but along with cameras is necessary, two cops all the time, never a single. With two cops and standard procedures Scott would still be with us. Two cops would have prevented Ferguson. I don't care if its small town or large city or in between, two cops whether on foot or horses or bikes or cars.
Root cause analysis shows a camera is not a solution, although it may be a diagnostic tool.
The fundamental problem is the selection of officers and their training. It's quite obvious, especially from the retired police I know, that a demand for strict obedience was part of their mindset long before they went to police academy. They were not screened on their skill in serving others. They aren't chosen for their skill in de-esclating tense situations. They like to wear black uniforms, not less threatening medium blue.
When did it become normal practice to "take- down" non-violent people, a deceptive term for slamming a human being with the intent to injure into a brick wall, a steel car or a concrete ground? See the video of Madison, AL "take-down" of Mr. Patel.
Who teaches the practice to shout "stop resisting" as a ruse to deny reality?
Who teaches the practice to say "he went for his waistband" when the video shows the person's hands are in the air?
Who teaches the practice to say "he wrested away my Taser" as a get-out-of-prison free assertion?
Who teaches the practice to claim a car rolled through a stop sign, has a broken tail light, or didn't signal a turn, as a ruse to pursue revenue generating fines?
How many of our police officers were taught similar practices in Iraq or Afghanistan as a way to instill fear? I know not all soldiers were taught this.
All of those come long before a police officer puts on a body camera. That's why we need to stop this now.
The fundamental problem is the selection of officers and their training. It's quite obvious, especially from the retired police I know, that a demand for strict obedience was part of their mindset long before they went to police academy. They were not screened on their skill in serving others. They aren't chosen for their skill in de-esclating tense situations. They like to wear black uniforms, not less threatening medium blue.
When did it become normal practice to "take- down" non-violent people, a deceptive term for slamming a human being with the intent to injure into a brick wall, a steel car or a concrete ground? See the video of Madison, AL "take-down" of Mr. Patel.
Who teaches the practice to shout "stop resisting" as a ruse to deny reality?
Who teaches the practice to say "he went for his waistband" when the video shows the person's hands are in the air?
Who teaches the practice to say "he wrested away my Taser" as a get-out-of-prison free assertion?
Who teaches the practice to claim a car rolled through a stop sign, has a broken tail light, or didn't signal a turn, as a ruse to pursue revenue generating fines?
How many of our police officers were taught similar practices in Iraq or Afghanistan as a way to instill fear? I know not all soldiers were taught this.
All of those come long before a police officer puts on a body camera. That's why we need to stop this now.
12
My first job up here required the possibility of the use of lethal force being used. I can tell you the responsibility is a burden for every law enforcement officer and other people also with that level of importance in the proper discharge of their jobs, as I was. The fact is, that training alone does not prepare anyone for all situations. I have personally witnessed a situation in which a man with a gun in his hand whose business had just burned and clearly in shock confronted by a group of officers with guns drawn and ready to fire when someone turned and saw me behind them. I will only say that all weapons were holstered and the man disarmed peacefully.
The police community mirrors the general population with the majority being decent, regular folks. But the next time you feel the urge to salute some cop and thank him/her for their service because they do a dangerous job, think about this: In the US, 126 cops died on the job in 2012, a year in which there were 4,383 workplace fatalities. In fact, loggers, construction workers, truck drivers, linemen, oil and gas workers, etc are all more likely to die on the job providing essential services. So try saluting some guy wearing a hard hat or driving a big rig the next time you feel like being grateful, and may be we could all get some much needed perspective on why it shouldn't be just a gun and a shield that earn your respect.
14
Recognize that of those 126 police who died on the job, most of them were killed in auto accidents or otherwise in a way that's not "shot by a perp".
Against that, last year, at least 1100 citizens were killed by police. So far this year, the count is 316. http://www.killedbypolice.net/
It's no accident that the DoJ fails to keep statistics on this. There are bad apples in the police community, just as in the non-police community. The real problems, though, are the sheer number of laws being enforced, and the increasingly militarized manner of enforcement.
Against that, last year, at least 1100 citizens were killed by police. So far this year, the count is 316. http://www.killedbypolice.net/
It's no accident that the DoJ fails to keep statistics on this. There are bad apples in the police community, just as in the non-police community. The real problems, though, are the sheer number of laws being enforced, and the increasingly militarized manner of enforcement.
6
Most workplace fatalities are human error. Most cop deaths are intentional criminal acts or pursuit of criminals.
We need to disarm the street cops. Too many of the have proven themselves undeserving of the trust, and the moment they get into a scuffle with a non-compliant suspect, the issue arises of them (sensibly) fearing that they'll lose control of the gun.
7
Disarm them so they can be gunned down with no opportunity to defend themselves. Sorry this is not UK. Cops should have guns that only fire for owner, solves the losing gun issue with regard to it being used against the cop or others.
1
Re: the whole thing about body cams. I agree.
I have practiced law for around 28 years or so, but I don't do very much criminal.
Recently, I did have a criminal case in California.
In California, the Highway Patrol has, since 2010, been required to have something in their cars called MARVS. It is supposed to record both audio and visual on encounters with alleged perpetrators. You have doubtless seen examples of such systems at work on popular television and YouTube.
I made a desultory motion for discovery of, inter alia, the MARVS recording. After a little hesitation, CHP gave it to me. What it showed surprised me and is of pertinence here: at the beginning of the encounter, the officer can be seen directly in front of the camera, which is standard. He is talking to the suspect. Then, not long after the encounter begins, he actually moves himself and the suspect off to the side where neither of them can be seen by the video camera. This goes on for some time. Also, he neglected to turn on the microphone for virtually the entire encounter, even though MARVS makes it easy to do this, and all officers are trained in the use of MARVS, so they know where to stand, and when to turn the microphone on, which sometimes happens automatically.
I found it remarkable to ponder that the officer had purposely moved himself and the suspect beyond the range of the video, because he didn't want what he thought he might do to be seen.
Body cams would make this much less likely.
I have practiced law for around 28 years or so, but I don't do very much criminal.
Recently, I did have a criminal case in California.
In California, the Highway Patrol has, since 2010, been required to have something in their cars called MARVS. It is supposed to record both audio and visual on encounters with alleged perpetrators. You have doubtless seen examples of such systems at work on popular television and YouTube.
I made a desultory motion for discovery of, inter alia, the MARVS recording. After a little hesitation, CHP gave it to me. What it showed surprised me and is of pertinence here: at the beginning of the encounter, the officer can be seen directly in front of the camera, which is standard. He is talking to the suspect. Then, not long after the encounter begins, he actually moves himself and the suspect off to the side where neither of them can be seen by the video camera. This goes on for some time. Also, he neglected to turn on the microphone for virtually the entire encounter, even though MARVS makes it easy to do this, and all officers are trained in the use of MARVS, so they know where to stand, and when to turn the microphone on, which sometimes happens automatically.
I found it remarkable to ponder that the officer had purposely moved himself and the suspect beyond the range of the video, because he didn't want what he thought he might do to be seen.
Body cams would make this much less likely.
13
"After a little hesitation, CHP gave it [the recording] to me."
How did the "hesitation" manifest itself?
"I found it remarkable to ponder that the officer had purposely moved himself and the suspect beyond the range of the video, because he didn't want what he thought he might do to be seen."
Couldn't you ask in court why he moved?
How did the "hesitation" manifest itself?
"I found it remarkable to ponder that the officer had purposely moved himself and the suspect beyond the range of the video, because he didn't want what he thought he might do to be seen."
Couldn't you ask in court why he moved?
How can we make our police forces better, less prone to violence and aggression?
More and better training. Police in Europe get far more training than the typical short police academy training here. Retrain them throughout their careers. Use the military habit of constant training.
Fire about half of them. Some are not suited psychologically to police work, some become battered veterans within a few years by seeing the ugly, underbelly of human life every day. Get them out of the force.
Don't give them full pensions to retire after 20 to 25 years. Giving full pensions puts a high priority in getting through their years as the only goal, it puts the mindset as being "four more years", then go on the gravy train. Give them partial pensions until a normal retirement age of 62 or 66.
Make it clear that all shootings and violent events are going to be thoroughly investigated, top to bottom, side to side.
Try to find and identify racist officers. Get them off the force.
Make them take training every year against racist mindsets.
Stop tactics like handcuffing everyone all the time. Even white collar criminals are handcuffed, even when they turn themselves in. The officer in N.Charleston, for heaven's sake, handcuffed a dying man. Stop putting the emphasis on control, control, control. Don't hire bullies.
Stop telling them how dangerous their jobs are all the time. Construction and firefighting are more dangerous.
Give them a "time out", six months off, at mid career.
More and better training. Police in Europe get far more training than the typical short police academy training here. Retrain them throughout their careers. Use the military habit of constant training.
Fire about half of them. Some are not suited psychologically to police work, some become battered veterans within a few years by seeing the ugly, underbelly of human life every day. Get them out of the force.
Don't give them full pensions to retire after 20 to 25 years. Giving full pensions puts a high priority in getting through their years as the only goal, it puts the mindset as being "four more years", then go on the gravy train. Give them partial pensions until a normal retirement age of 62 or 66.
Make it clear that all shootings and violent events are going to be thoroughly investigated, top to bottom, side to side.
Try to find and identify racist officers. Get them off the force.
Make them take training every year against racist mindsets.
Stop tactics like handcuffing everyone all the time. Even white collar criminals are handcuffed, even when they turn themselves in. The officer in N.Charleston, for heaven's sake, handcuffed a dying man. Stop putting the emphasis on control, control, control. Don't hire bullies.
Stop telling them how dangerous their jobs are all the time. Construction and firefighting are more dangerous.
Give them a "time out", six months off, at mid career.
13
And make the police force patrolling any given community as racially diverse as that community.
5
If only they'd listen to you. Very wise suggestions.
1
There is nothing worse than the corrupted power. The judiciary system has been given the police the benefit of the doubt, and the racial inequality and the racial relationship have been worsen as a result.
It is time to require the police to have the body camera. The law has to be written that when the police killed someone without the video from the body camera to justify his/her professional conduct, it is a crime of disrupting justice and tampering the evidence, period.
It is time to require the police to have the body camera. The law has to be written that when the police killed someone without the video from the body camera to justify his/her professional conduct, it is a crime of disrupting justice and tampering the evidence, period.
10
It's imperative that there are body cameras and that they are tamper-proof. I thank this bystander for his courage to film this murder, and to allow us all proof that this happened, for the family, and for us all as a culture.
I heard on the radio this morning that there is video from the camera mounted in the police car, but honestly, I don't much care what it shows. Whatever happened before does not justify Mr. Scott's being shot in the back 8 times.
One poster commented that he already lives his life as if it was being filmed 24/7 - I've always tried to conduct myself as if my mother was watching. I'm human so I've failed many times, but it mostly allows me to look at myself in the mirror every morning and be okay with who I am and how I treat other people.
I heard on the radio this morning that there is video from the camera mounted in the police car, but honestly, I don't much care what it shows. Whatever happened before does not justify Mr. Scott's being shot in the back 8 times.
One poster commented that he already lives his life as if it was being filmed 24/7 - I've always tried to conduct myself as if my mother was watching. I'm human so I've failed many times, but it mostly allows me to look at myself in the mirror every morning and be okay with who I am and how I treat other people.
5
The only real news here is how the mainstream press has studiously ignored the prevalence of police lying under oath and the willingness of the judiciary to routinely and knowingly acquiesce in what the police themselves call TESTILYING.
The New Yorker ran an article on this issue back in the 1980's with focus on trial courts in either Brooklyn or Manhattan. Otherwise, the mainstream media has treated police misfeasance as an aberration rather than a systemic and institutionalized corruption. As for the role of the judiciary in turning a blind eye to the corruption, the media hasn't even come close to reporting on that aspect of the problem
The New Yorker ran an article on this issue back in the 1980's with focus on trial courts in either Brooklyn or Manhattan. Otherwise, the mainstream media has treated police misfeasance as an aberration rather than a systemic and institutionalized corruption. As for the role of the judiciary in turning a blind eye to the corruption, the media hasn't even come close to reporting on that aspect of the problem
17
It would be very easy to address the privacy issues that accompany the constant recording of everything a police officer encounters during a normal day:
Just use body cameras that automatically record everything over the course of the day, but also automatically encrypt the video so that it is inaccessible to the police themselves without the decryption key. Release of the video-specific decryption key would require a court order, which would be given only upon review of the circumstances (conflicting statements of citizens and police in a particular instance), or automatically when any shooting or other kind of force resulting in an arrest or a law suit is involved.
Just the knowledge that police encounters are recorded and can be reviewed depending on the circumstances would change the behavior of the police as well as the public when they interact. At the same time, the impact on personal privacy would be minimized, unless a judge determines on a case by case basis that review of the encounter is warranted.
I would think this would strike a fair balance and would reduce the feelings by the police officers and private citizens that they are helpless and have to live with constantly being spied upon.
Just use body cameras that automatically record everything over the course of the day, but also automatically encrypt the video so that it is inaccessible to the police themselves without the decryption key. Release of the video-specific decryption key would require a court order, which would be given only upon review of the circumstances (conflicting statements of citizens and police in a particular instance), or automatically when any shooting or other kind of force resulting in an arrest or a law suit is involved.
Just the knowledge that police encounters are recorded and can be reviewed depending on the circumstances would change the behavior of the police as well as the public when they interact. At the same time, the impact on personal privacy would be minimized, unless a judge determines on a case by case basis that review of the encounter is warranted.
I would think this would strike a fair balance and would reduce the feelings by the police officers and private citizens that they are helpless and have to live with constantly being spied upon.
4
Re: "Video of Walter Scott Shooting Reignites Debate on Police Tactics,"
news article, April 8, 2015.
I still believe that unarmed police officers cruising around American streets, would, eventually, result in fewer armed citizens, and, consequently, fewer violent encounters between cops and citizens. The possession of guns intensifies anger and inflates egos. Unarmed, I would negotiate with an adversary in a bar standing on my foot and refusing to step down.
Armed, I am very likely to push him off, pulling out my concealed gun, and
inviting my foot-crushing adversary to follow suit. Officer Michael Thomas
Slager was incensed when Mr. Walter Lamer Scott tried to scamper away
from him while fighting over the former' Taser. He felt his authority undermined, making it impossible for him to reflect coolly over the
absolute certainty that he could overtake the unarmed Mr. Scott on foot and subdue him, even without the use of his gun. But to do so, Officer Slager needed to be a thinking human being committed to saving a fellow-human's life, which is what he would be had he not been armed to the teeth.
If Officer Darren Wilson had no weapons on him, he would have spoken to Michael Brown politely about the dangers of jaywalking and persuaded him to get off the street. Even after his scuffle with Brown in the car, he could have
called for backup saying he is too shook up to arrest Brown peacefully. He didn't; instead, he allowed his weapons to exaggerate his anger at Brown.
news article, April 8, 2015.
I still believe that unarmed police officers cruising around American streets, would, eventually, result in fewer armed citizens, and, consequently, fewer violent encounters between cops and citizens. The possession of guns intensifies anger and inflates egos. Unarmed, I would negotiate with an adversary in a bar standing on my foot and refusing to step down.
Armed, I am very likely to push him off, pulling out my concealed gun, and
inviting my foot-crushing adversary to follow suit. Officer Michael Thomas
Slager was incensed when Mr. Walter Lamer Scott tried to scamper away
from him while fighting over the former' Taser. He felt his authority undermined, making it impossible for him to reflect coolly over the
absolute certainty that he could overtake the unarmed Mr. Scott on foot and subdue him, even without the use of his gun. But to do so, Officer Slager needed to be a thinking human being committed to saving a fellow-human's life, which is what he would be had he not been armed to the teeth.
If Officer Darren Wilson had no weapons on him, he would have spoken to Michael Brown politely about the dangers of jaywalking and persuaded him to get off the street. Even after his scuffle with Brown in the car, he could have
called for backup saying he is too shook up to arrest Brown peacefully. He didn't; instead, he allowed his weapons to exaggerate his anger at Brown.
5
If I had to guess what transpired...
The officer may have been arguing with Scott. Scott may have become belligerent and became threatening. A chase began. A possible physical struggle may have ensued between the two men. The officer Tazered Scott during the struggle. Scott became violent and angry that he was Tazered and grabbed and threw the Tazer behind the officer. The officer got up and took out his firearm the within seconds after the Tazer was grabbed from his hands to regain control because the Tazer was now gone and useless. At this point the officer felt threatened for his own safety because if the suspect had grabbed a Tazer he might try to grab the handgun next. The officer with weapon drawn had only a couple of seconds to realize that the suspect was fleeing but the officer couldn't cool down his anger and adrenaline fast enough to behave rationally... so he started firing in revenge and frustration. After realizing that he and committed a hot-headed unjustified killing out of anger and frustration the officer decided to stack the deck in his own favor by planting the Tazer on the suspect.
The officer may have been arguing with Scott. Scott may have become belligerent and became threatening. A chase began. A possible physical struggle may have ensued between the two men. The officer Tazered Scott during the struggle. Scott became violent and angry that he was Tazered and grabbed and threw the Tazer behind the officer. The officer got up and took out his firearm the within seconds after the Tazer was grabbed from his hands to regain control because the Tazer was now gone and useless. At this point the officer felt threatened for his own safety because if the suspect had grabbed a Tazer he might try to grab the handgun next. The officer with weapon drawn had only a couple of seconds to realize that the suspect was fleeing but the officer couldn't cool down his anger and adrenaline fast enough to behave rationally... so he started firing in revenge and frustration. After realizing that he and committed a hot-headed unjustified killing out of anger and frustration the officer decided to stack the deck in his own favor by planting the Tazer on the suspect.
That is one whole heck of a lot of speculation.
3
The practice of enforcing the law seems, unfortunately, to have become the business of enforcing the law.
Asset forfeiture and federal grant money have had a perverse effect on police department decision making. Violence against the non-violent has been 'incentivized.'
It seems to me that one defining component of this rampant violence against non-violent citizens is the manner in which drug laws are enforced in this country.
Not only has our federal government gone about militarizing local police forces around the country, but those police forces have been permitted to, and applauded for carrying out highly violent acts against entirely non-violent drug offenders.
The long-term, consistent level of violence applied to non-violent marijuana offenders is more than enough to illustrate my point. Heavy handed violence has been applied to 'political crimes' for decades, and we've begun to reap what our predecessors had sown.
This has gone on long enough that it seems to have become ingrained in law enforcement culture; violence is how to engage non-violence; obey and you'll survive... maybe.
Asset forfeiture and federal grant money have had a perverse effect on police department decision making. Violence against the non-violent has been 'incentivized.'
It seems to me that one defining component of this rampant violence against non-violent citizens is the manner in which drug laws are enforced in this country.
Not only has our federal government gone about militarizing local police forces around the country, but those police forces have been permitted to, and applauded for carrying out highly violent acts against entirely non-violent drug offenders.
The long-term, consistent level of violence applied to non-violent marijuana offenders is more than enough to illustrate my point. Heavy handed violence has been applied to 'political crimes' for decades, and we've begun to reap what our predecessors had sown.
This has gone on long enough that it seems to have become ingrained in law enforcement culture; violence is how to engage non-violence; obey and you'll survive... maybe.
7
The only reason this video has become public is that the officer was unaware it had been taken. I remember early reports from Ferguson: one of the first actions taken by the police, before Michael Brown was cold where he lay on the ground, was to impound the cellphones of all bystanders. After those first reports, the impounded phones were never mentioned. I still wonder...
9
I guess the answer to that one is to very quickly send the video to yourself or a trusted friend as soon as it's shot and before the "collection agency" comes around.
4
We need a federal law granting anyone the right to video police officers' behavior, anywhere at any time. Thank goodness for the man who was brave enough to step forward with his video; what a shame that he would have to fear for his own safety, in doing so.
In addition, we need reliable psychological testing to weed out those police officers who are paranoid, vicious, or inclined to violence. Apparently law enforcement attracts these people.
In addition, we need reliable psychological testing to weed out those police officers who are paranoid, vicious, or inclined to violence. Apparently law enforcement attracts these people.
8
@Karen Hudson: "We need a federal law granting anyone the right to video police officers' behavior, anywhere at any time."
The People already have that right. The following is from the DoJ Civil Rights Division Report on the Ferguson PD:
"[p26] FPD officers also routinely infringe on the public’s First Amendment rights by preventing people from recording their activities. [citations]
Applying this principle, the federal courts of appeal have held that the First Amendment “unambiguously” establishes a constitutional right to videotape police activities. [citations]
Indeed, as the ability to record police activity has become more widespread, the
role it can play in capturing questionable police activity, and ensuring that the
activity is investigated and subject to broad public debate, has become clear.
Protecting civilian recording of police activity is thus at the core of speech the First Amendment is intended to protect. [more citations]"
The People already have that right. The following is from the DoJ Civil Rights Division Report on the Ferguson PD:
"[p26] FPD officers also routinely infringe on the public’s First Amendment rights by preventing people from recording their activities. [citations]
Applying this principle, the federal courts of appeal have held that the First Amendment “unambiguously” establishes a constitutional right to videotape police activities. [citations]
Indeed, as the ability to record police activity has become more widespread, the
role it can play in capturing questionable police activity, and ensuring that the
activity is investigated and subject to broad public debate, has become clear.
Protecting civilian recording of police activity is thus at the core of speech the First Amendment is intended to protect. [more citations]"
4
Gun control NEEDS to be a part of these discussions.
In England, citizen deaths at the hands of police officers are an incredible rarity. Because police do not carry guns there. There is no reason to carry guns, because police don't need to protect themselves against citizens with guns. Citizens don't carry guns because UK gun laws are extraordinarily strict.
Take guns away from regular people, so that you can take them away from cops. EVERYONE will be better off.
In England, citizen deaths at the hands of police officers are an incredible rarity. Because police do not carry guns there. There is no reason to carry guns, because police don't need to protect themselves against citizens with guns. Citizens don't carry guns because UK gun laws are extraordinarily strict.
Take guns away from regular people, so that you can take them away from cops. EVERYONE will be better off.
6
Sorry, Jilly, not on THIS planet. But even though citizens are armed in the USA, a case can be made that the street cops shouldn't be. An unarmed person, in this case the officer, will handle a fight with a suspect differently than an armed officer. In this case, for example, the officer might have chased down the fleeing suspect if he had not had recourse to his pistol. Raiding a drug den will still call for the SWAT Team, but routine interactions with mostly peaceful citizens while on patrol might best be conducted without handguns. First sign of trouble, the unarmed officer radios for help.
2
But.. all this over a broken taillight? Why pursue at all?
The officer presumably had the violation -- and the license plate -- recorded on his dash cam. Why not just let the guy run away and send him a ticket in the mail? Apparently that approach works fine for all those traffic cams and the tickets they issue
The officer presumably had the violation -- and the license plate -- recorded on his dash cam. Why not just let the guy run away and send him a ticket in the mail? Apparently that approach works fine for all those traffic cams and the tickets they issue
2
I'm all for body cams and dashboard cams for videotaping police and their work.
That said, this is really a much broader issue and the article brings light on the subject of police veracity. I suspect that for many police the idea of having a gun and telling people what to do is perhaps a bit too intoxicating. Power coupled with the biases we all have can be very deadly. Police need better training and need to recognize that for them to do their jobs they need to rise above. In the end, the public needs to trust the police and the police need to recognize that.
That said, this is really a much broader issue and the article brings light on the subject of police veracity. I suspect that for many police the idea of having a gun and telling people what to do is perhaps a bit too intoxicating. Power coupled with the biases we all have can be very deadly. Police need better training and need to recognize that for them to do their jobs they need to rise above. In the end, the public needs to trust the police and the police need to recognize that.
4
I'm not sure a moral person can become "intoxicated" by the power of telling people what to do. I think the problem is we're starting with previously warped people.
2
This incontrovertible video evidence of police malfeasance should now silence the doubters who say “the police wouldn't do that”, “those people are overly sensitive”, “they must have deserved it” when stories arise about altercations between White officers and persons of color. People in “minority” communities have been speaking their truth and their reality for generations. It is past time for the issues of police mistrust and brutality to be taken seriously.
11
The only people I know who would make those statements are republicans, and they're protection their guns, not the police officers. It just happens to overlap their own self-serving motives.
I still think that the officer was very wrong for shooting a fleeing suspect. But, you can understand the logic better when you realize that the officer had just gotten up from a struggle for control and began drawing his weapon within seconds after the struggle ended and while the suspect was within striking distance. The suspect could have jumped away and then turned around for a renewed running attack at the officer. So, the officer seems justified all the way up through actually drawing his weapon and aiming to fire.
The mistake was made by the officer in the few precious seconds later when the officer should have realized that he was no longer under attack. But the officer's fear, adrenaline and anger got the best of him when he actually began firing in possible retaliation and frustration. And attempting to plant the taser on the suspect was a terrible idea. If he hadn't planted the taser he could have used my arguments and not looked nearly as bad. He just got scared and angry from the physical confrontation and made a terrible decision in the heat of the moment. The "heat of the moment" applied if he began shooting seconds after the struggle for survival.
The mistake was made by the officer in the few precious seconds later when the officer should have realized that he was no longer under attack. But the officer's fear, adrenaline and anger got the best of him when he actually began firing in possible retaliation and frustration. And attempting to plant the taser on the suspect was a terrible idea. If he hadn't planted the taser he could have used my arguments and not looked nearly as bad. He just got scared and angry from the physical confrontation and made a terrible decision in the heat of the moment. The "heat of the moment" applied if he began shooting seconds after the struggle for survival.
The immediate response is, we need body cameras on all police officers. I agree with this. BUT there are privacy issues. If police officers are always recording their surroundings then they will be recording not only in public, but in private, when they enter somebody's home. There's a serious concern about civil liberties when, just by stepping through a person's doorway, the police officer starts creating a permanent record of everything. So, probably, we'll have to allow police officers to turn off the body cameras in those situations. Which then leads to the problem of officers conveniently not having remembered to turn them on just before they severely injure or kill someone. How do we solve this?
4
Well, to make things equal and believable for all concerned, should not perpetrators be required to wear body cameras also? Don't we need to see both sides of these events?
"Privacy issues regarding body cams. How do we solve this?"
By individually hardware encrypting the videos and making the key accessible only through court order, or automatically, if any shooting was involved.
By individually hardware encrypting the videos and making the key accessible only through court order, or automatically, if any shooting was involved.
4
The camera is never turned off while the officer is on duty. If there is a reason to enter a home then an official record needs to be made of the event. No on/off switch for the officer to worry about.
1
What happened immediately before the video starts is very relevant to the story. When a suspect makes an action to wrestle for control of an officer's weapon -- whether taser or firearm -- it is a very serious high adrenaline situation in which an officer has temporarily lost control of the encounter and is afraid for his safety. The witness said that the officer and suspect were wrestling on the ground. Do you realize how serious that is to an officer? When an officer is carrying a firearm and wrestling on the ground with an angry person the first thing that comes to mind is that the suspect will grab the officer's gun and shoot the officer. An officer knows that his firearm can be used by either party in a struggle. that fact greatly raises the stakes in a physical struggle. Do not wrestle for control of an armed man! His first thought is that he will have his own weapon used against him.
The officer did not necessarily lie when he reported "he grabbed my taser". He may have literally meant that he grabbed at it. It doesn't mean that the suspect actually gained control of it. But just grabbing at a weapon from an officer -- even if a person fails -- shows a clear intent to resist arrest and possibly do harm.
The officer did not necessarily lie when he reported "he grabbed my taser". He may have literally meant that he grabbed at it. It doesn't mean that the suspect actually gained control of it. But just grabbing at a weapon from an officer -- even if a person fails -- shows a clear intent to resist arrest and possibly do harm.
3
Yes sir officer, We'll just move along and mind our own business. It would take another cop to defend a fellow "peace" officer of shooting someone in the back, making up a story and planting a taser.
7
That cop didn't have a scratch on him! And then he planted the taser on the guy he just murdered.
4
The victim was already running away, without any weapons. He cannot harm the officer. The officer only have to shoot him legs and he would have been stopped from running. The victim was not even running away fast.
3
PREDATOR AND PREY.
The video recording showing the unarmed Mr. Scott running away from the police officer reminds of something straight out of the Discovery Channel: PREDATOR AND PREY. That sadly seems to be the current state of affairs between white police officers and black males in this country.
These recordings are important. Maybe, just maybe, they will change opinions. Until now, the police developed 'police records' on citizens. I hope the citizen movement will become relentlessly unbroken. The public should record every police interaction; some recordings may ablute cops. Let the chips fall where they may.
The video recording showing the unarmed Mr. Scott running away from the police officer reminds of something straight out of the Discovery Channel: PREDATOR AND PREY. That sadly seems to be the current state of affairs between white police officers and black males in this country.
These recordings are important. Maybe, just maybe, they will change opinions. Until now, the police developed 'police records' on citizens. I hope the citizen movement will become relentlessly unbroken. The public should record every police interaction; some recordings may ablute cops. Let the chips fall where they may.
12
Law enforcement in this country has gone for too long without a shakeup, a shock to the culture. Their fraternal mentality defaults to protection of one another regardless of the facts, and increasingly, despite them. Police body cameras are an idea whose time has come. The institutionalized video documentation of police activity will exonerate the good, weed out the rotten, and discourage the weak from engaging in conduct unbecoming a law enforcement official.
15
Why limit a "shakeup" to only the job of law enforcement? A "shakeup" is also needed financing political campaigns. And teachers. And plumbers. And all elected officials. And each and every politician. And the list goes on. If you are going to have a "shakeup" do it completely, not to just one profession.......
We have reached the point where it is impossible to have any faith in the words and actions of the police. Body cameras may effect some change in the behavior of the police, and in turn avoid the escalation between officers and the public, but it did not change the outcome or result in any change of behavior following the case of Eric Garner. Simply put, many police officers are untruthful and many others all too willing to cover for fellow officers with the belief that they may be next to require the same protection. This is a systemic problem within each police agency, across the country. This is lost when people cling to the idea that the problem is one of individual officers. This reality is driven home, when we witness the absolute disdain police have for civic leaders, the press, and the public that attempt to bring accountability to their actions; behavior that was in full display when NYPD officers turned their backs on Mayor DeBlasio, or when the police threaten bystanders lawfully filming their actions.
The police have set themselves in opposition to the public, and belatedly the public has awakened to this problem. Corrective action must come from accountability, including: civilian review boards with the power to independently discipline officers, district attorneys to hold police to account, a willingness of judges to rein in police excesses, and federal oversight through the Department of Justice.
The police have set themselves in opposition to the public, and belatedly the public has awakened to this problem. Corrective action must come from accountability, including: civilian review boards with the power to independently discipline officers, district attorneys to hold police to account, a willingness of judges to rein in police excesses, and federal oversight through the Department of Justice.
15
Omerta for cops - omerta for doctors - who's next?
Some one once told me that you should live your life as if you are on TV 23/7. Very hard to do, but it's doable. Most of the discussion, though, seems to miss the point entirely. We need alternative techniques for the apprehension of suspects, particularly those that might resist arrest for any reason. We spend an enormous amount of money on policing, but it is either not nearly enough or the money is being spent on inefficiencies. It's possible that it is both. Three (3) high school kids could have safely captured that man without causing any bodily harm. It probably would have been fun. Instead, we have some one who makes no attempt to run after the fleeing individual and shoots him dead in the back instead. If you look at some of the officers, and then you try to think of them running after some one, it is somewhat comical. Obviously, the use of force is convenient, expeditious and non aerobic. The fact that more black men are killed by white police has more to do with demographics, geography, and types of crimes being committed, rather than racial prejudice, although there is some of that to be sure, too. Bingo this! We as a people, black and white, have simply not invested in creating more humane techniques for the apprehension of criminals, period. To save money? Use of force is more economical? Black lives are more expendable? Or all of the above?
8
Methinks they spend too many nights comparing heroic interactions at McGillicuddy's Pub. Tends to add a little freight in front that's hard to get movin' in an emergency.
Police officers have been able to tamper evidences that are inconvenient for them for a long time because they could just do it. No anymore! Thanks to cell phones cameras we will be and keep opening their cans or worms way long overdue.
This is where corruption and dishonesty lead. Isn't ironic what a simple little electronic gadget can do to protect ourselves and our families from people on power???? This will make people re-think before they act.
This is where corruption and dishonesty lead. Isn't ironic what a simple little electronic gadget can do to protect ourselves and our families from people on power???? This will make people re-think before they act.
9
Should there be a 2nd Amendment right to bear cameras?
Were it no for the video, a cold-blooded murder would have been committed by a police officer and he would have blamed the man he shot dead, as he attempted to do immediately after the fact. How would authorities have responded had this footage never been found. Officer Slager’s initial account, which he relayed to a dispatcher, was: “Shots fired and the subject is down, he took my Taser.”
“It would have never come to light,” Scott’s father, Walter Scott Sr., told the “Today” show . “They would have swept it under the rug, like they did with many others.”
Perhaps there should be a 2nd Amendment right for the public to bear cameras and record officers' actions. After all, the pro-gun advocates and the NRA claim the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms is meant to protect the people against the actions of a "tyrannical" government. The right to bear cameras makes more sense and better supports that argument.
Were it no for the video, a cold-blooded murder would have been committed by a police officer and he would have blamed the man he shot dead, as he attempted to do immediately after the fact. How would authorities have responded had this footage never been found. Officer Slager’s initial account, which he relayed to a dispatcher, was: “Shots fired and the subject is down, he took my Taser.”
“It would have never come to light,” Scott’s father, Walter Scott Sr., told the “Today” show . “They would have swept it under the rug, like they did with many others.”
Perhaps there should be a 2nd Amendment right for the public to bear cameras and record officers' actions. After all, the pro-gun advocates and the NRA claim the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms is meant to protect the people against the actions of a "tyrannical" government. The right to bear cameras makes more sense and better supports that argument.
14
Uh-uh. The word 'gun' should just be exchanged for 'camera'. That's all you need to do.
Society can be harmonious only when governmental authority is moral. This is demonstrated when the dignity of every community member is respected.
Legitimate government honors a moral code demonstrated through goodwill toward community members.
Society needs behavior that is moral, reasonable, and just, otherwise authority becomes shameful, abusive, and intrusive.
Positions of trust in every level of American government must have moral principles as the foundation.
It is government’s role, understood as both politicians and government employees to serve. Government’s dedication to improving the lives of community members—especially those who are marginalized, vulnerable, and oppressed must always be paramount.
A just government dedicates itself to the dignity of the human person. In return, truthfulness, justice, and patriotic participation throughout the community are animated.
The tragic chaos that unfolded after the lethal shooting in Ferguson was exacerbated due to the failure of government officials to honor principles of reasonable authority, community policing, and human dignity deserved by each and every community member.
Government representatives must have a code of ethics that respects the principles of society, authority, and the common good. When these principles are honored, society flourishes. When they are violated, the results are dysfunction, disparities, and disorder.
Legitimate government honors a moral code demonstrated through goodwill toward community members.
Society needs behavior that is moral, reasonable, and just, otherwise authority becomes shameful, abusive, and intrusive.
Positions of trust in every level of American government must have moral principles as the foundation.
It is government’s role, understood as both politicians and government employees to serve. Government’s dedication to improving the lives of community members—especially those who are marginalized, vulnerable, and oppressed must always be paramount.
A just government dedicates itself to the dignity of the human person. In return, truthfulness, justice, and patriotic participation throughout the community are animated.
The tragic chaos that unfolded after the lethal shooting in Ferguson was exacerbated due to the failure of government officials to honor principles of reasonable authority, community policing, and human dignity deserved by each and every community member.
Government representatives must have a code of ethics that respects the principles of society, authority, and the common good. When these principles are honored, society flourishes. When they are violated, the results are dysfunction, disparities, and disorder.
7
Yes, police need retraining, but this does not solve all issues because how do you train the officers on the force that are racist, aggressive, and unstable? You cannot. It's their personality and their core being. No level of training regarding proper protocol and procedure will change that. There should be a diligent effort to recruit police from ethnically diverse backgrounds coupled with ROP and police cadet programs in communities of color. This would lead to a transition from an occupying force to community policing. The better the relationship between the force and it's communities, the less these atrocities will occur.
4
For a very long time video evidence did not convince juries to find police ifficers culpable for wrongful deaths especially when the victims were people of color. Perhaps this will now start to change as police officers are now very cognizant that they are being watched more that ever.
4
This video was released to the media by the victim's family -- so the whole nation watched it without having any "spin" put on it by the criminal justice apparatus. That was a very intelligent strategy!
3
Since Black African Americans have to live with the reality of being racially profiled, stalked and stopped by law enforcement "professionals" there was and is no end to the debate.
White people periodically taking notice of something beyond their reality and experience involving the "alien" unknown Black African American who are neither their brothers nor sisters and members of the one and only rainbow colored human race is dimly weak smoldering white supremacy. There is no meaningful debate nor understanding nor compassion nor empathy nor humanity. But there is American exceptional mythology.
White people periodically taking notice of something beyond their reality and experience involving the "alien" unknown Black African American who are neither their brothers nor sisters and members of the one and only rainbow colored human race is dimly weak smoldering white supremacy. There is no meaningful debate nor understanding nor compassion nor empathy nor humanity. But there is American exceptional mythology.
5
Some white people don't just "periodically" take notice but I can understand why you feel that way. I've had a couple experiences in my life that I feel separate me from literally everyone I personally know yet they are invisible. Skin color is not.
2
Rae Neither John Brown nor James Reeb nor Viola Liuzzo nor any of the white people who always notice and feel and try to alleviate Black pain are white. They are simply fellow human beings. I believe that there is only one human race. But some disagree.
2
In the video, it appears that the first thing done by the police officer who shot the fallen and motionless Walter Scott was to handcuff the shooting victim! And he made no attempt to render medical assistance!
8
I have practiced law for nearly 40 years.
If I am ever a juror and the only evidence is the uncorroborated testimony of a cop, ......the defendant walks for lack of credible proof of guilt.
They have none to blame but themselves for squandering the huge bank of public trust afforded them.
If I am ever a juror and the only evidence is the uncorroborated testimony of a cop, ......the defendant walks for lack of credible proof of guilt.
They have none to blame but themselves for squandering the huge bank of public trust afforded them.
16
The video of the officer shooting Mr. Scott should be incontrovertible evidence of a cold blooded killing but vindication for Mr. Scott's family is still in doubt. While we applaud the murder charges against the officer, justice will only be done if he's convicted and appropriately sentenced. My fear is that it is not only the police that are prejudiced when interacting with people of color but also the entire justice system. Let's keep this story in the headlines until the trial is over.
7
Mr. Scott was shot because he annoyed Officer Slager and because Officer Slager could shoot Mr. Scott.
Body cameras will on police officers will take much of the could out of them using their weapons when they get annoyed.
Body cameras will on police officers will take much of the could out of them using their weapons when they get annoyed.
9
One thing we should note here is that we are all talking about critical role of cameras. It is very true that the cameras will change the situation. However, why we are relying on the cameras to monitor the behavior of police officers? Aren't they supposed to behavior like a police officer? At the time that there's no iphones and all these videotaping technologies, what people do??? The more important thing here is the sense of human being and morality, which really make people know how to respect others.
4
We have reached the point where it is impossible to have any faith in the words and actions of the police. Body cameras may affect some change in the behavior of the police, and in turn avoid the escalation between officers and the public, but it did not change the outcome or result in any change of behavior following the case of Eric Garner.
Simply put, many police officers are untruthful and many others all too willing to cover for fellow officers with the belief the they may be next to require the same protection. This is a systemic problem within each police agency, across the country. This is lost when it people cling to the idea that the problem is one of individual officers. This reality is driven home, when we witness the absolute disdain police have for civic leaders, the press, and the public that attempt to bring accountability to their actions; behavior that was in full display when NYPD officers turned their backs on Mayor DeBlasio, or when the police threaten bystanders lawfully filming their actions.
The police have set themselves in opposition to the public, and belatedly the public has awakened to this problem. Corrective action must come from accountability, including: civilian review boards with the power to independently discipline officers, district attorneys to hold police to account, a willingness of judges to rein in police excesses, and federal oversight through the Department of Justice.
Simply put, many police officers are untruthful and many others all too willing to cover for fellow officers with the belief the they may be next to require the same protection. This is a systemic problem within each police agency, across the country. This is lost when it people cling to the idea that the problem is one of individual officers. This reality is driven home, when we witness the absolute disdain police have for civic leaders, the press, and the public that attempt to bring accountability to their actions; behavior that was in full display when NYPD officers turned their backs on Mayor DeBlasio, or when the police threaten bystanders lawfully filming their actions.
The police have set themselves in opposition to the public, and belatedly the public has awakened to this problem. Corrective action must come from accountability, including: civilian review boards with the power to independently discipline officers, district attorneys to hold police to account, a willingness of judges to rein in police excesses, and federal oversight through the Department of Justice.
7
If we all had some type of video and audio recording in our vehicles where "we" could easily and accurately record our interactions with police officers when stopped (and this was wide spread so every police officer knew it), would this promote a "different" interaction with officers when they stop us? They'd all speak a bit nicer to us, I bet.
3
Most of my encounters with cops have been minor -- traffic tickets, etc. However, in several of them the cops just flat out lied. Based on my own experience, I have concluded that not all cops lie, but that an honest cop is the exception.
10
You're comment, "Gary" stirs a personal memory. I stopped once in a rich shopping area on the suburban side of DC. I was having a snack in my car, not too far from an expensive jewelry store. A security guard, not a police officer, came up to my car and told me to move. I was in a bad mood that day and I basically told him to get lost, in an unfriendly way. The security guard, who had no authority to order me to do anything, probably assumed my reaction was racist, since he was black and I am not. I could have handled it better, but my momentary reaction was hostile, but, keep in mind, a security guard cannot order people around. He could have requested and I think I would have reacted far differently.
Within a few days, I received a parking ticket in the mail, signed by a police officer. Obviously, the two, the guard and the officer, were friendly, so the police officer issued a ticket. But wait. The police officer did not see me parking and had no authority to issue a ticket, under his signature, alleging a violation. He lied. He perjured himself.
A small lie, a small perjury, is as wrong as a big one. If the officer would lie for a friend, what would he do for a fellow officer accused of unjustified killing?
Minorities and, especially blacks, in America have been telling us for a hundred years that they are mistreated by the police and the courts. We were too busy to listen or care.
Within a few days, I received a parking ticket in the mail, signed by a police officer. Obviously, the two, the guard and the officer, were friendly, so the police officer issued a ticket. But wait. The police officer did not see me parking and had no authority to issue a ticket, under his signature, alleging a violation. He lied. He perjured himself.
A small lie, a small perjury, is as wrong as a big one. If the officer would lie for a friend, what would he do for a fellow officer accused of unjustified killing?
Minorities and, especially blacks, in America have been telling us for a hundred years that they are mistreated by the police and the courts. We were too busy to listen or care.
2
Growing up in the '50s, I believed that the police were there to protect us from criminals. Now I believe that many police officers act like criminals - killing citizens with excessive and unjustified force and physically attacking people for not instantly obeying their commands. As a society we must demand that every police officer who uses unnecessary force resulting in death or injury be charged with - and convicted - of a crime. Video cameras will not stop this behavior, only the risk of prison time will.
10
I wonder what the cop dropped next to the victim and why. Was he trying to plant evidence so he won't get in trouble? Didn't he see a person video taping him before doing such a stupid thing?
1
If he had seen the person videotaping him, we would never have seen the video.
2
We're all boggled by this too! I get the feeling from his body language that he didn't much care, especially for the human being lying on the ground in front of him. Arrogance to the nth degree.
1
Cops are are fraternal oginization which means club which means us first and no one else. Police today are less educated than ever and more and more, living up to their reputation as soscipathic bullies who never own the messes they create.
6
Finish reading every comment here, and then you may understand why, if you are a police officer, you need some kind of fraternal organization to protect you from the actions demanded by the writers of these comments. The public is not on your side if you are in law enforcement of any kind, anywhere.
I thought that multiple police officers stated that they gave CPR, yet that clearly didn't happen.
It seems like it isn't just one bad apple, but rather that all the officers on the scene (and another officer was there within 60 seconds of the shooting and can be seen on the video) lied.
It seems like it isn't just one bad apple, but rather that all the officers on the scene (and another officer was there within 60 seconds of the shooting and can be seen on the video) lied.
7
On the day that Walter Scott was shot by a rogue police officer over 900,000 police officers throughout the United States were on duty protecting our society. We should NOT condemn an entire group of people because of the actions of a few. Isn't that what we both preach and expect?
1
We are not condemning all police officers in America. What is being exposed appears to be, however, systematic excesses that occur again and again. We are all at risk of being shot or otherwise injured by police officers who are ready at a moment's notice to respond aggressively to any challenge to their authority.
The police in Ferguson, Mo., were doing the job they were sent out to do: produce the maximum number of fines and arrests to keep the money flowing to operate the city government. Whose fault is that? Should the officers protest and say, "Hey, we are not acting as your debt collectors?" Most people when they take a job are prepared to take orders. Police are para-military units were taking orders is a direct part of the training and task. They have to take orders to coordinate and for their own protection, but this demand makes them dangerous to the rest of us.
The police in Ferguson, Mo., were doing the job they were sent out to do: produce the maximum number of fines and arrests to keep the money flowing to operate the city government. Whose fault is that? Should the officers protest and say, "Hey, we are not acting as your debt collectors?" Most people when they take a job are prepared to take orders. Police are para-military units were taking orders is a direct part of the training and task. They have to take orders to coordinate and for their own protection, but this demand makes them dangerous to the rest of us.
Actually, at any given moment, hundreds of those 900,000 are busy harassing, bullying or beating up blacks, Latinos, homeless people and the mentally disabled. Or anyone who happens to threaten their fragile egos. And a few hundred more are engaged in lying to cover up the bad behavior of their colleagues. Let's not be under any illusions. For every crime committed by a cop on camera, there are hundreds more that never make the news. They are there to protect us, sure, but often they attack us instead and protect each other.
I've personally seen two incidents of completely gratuitous police violence against unarmed men. One was a tiny guy at a mall who was already handcuffed and standing perfectly still when the cop suddenly flipped out and slammed him to the floor, in full view of around a hundred people. No one dared to challenge the cop. The other was a drunk Latino who was trying to run away from what looked like a police riot outside a bar. Three cops chased him down, knocked him over and thrashed him with their nightsticks while he writhed on the pavement. It made me sick. I don't see this in other civilized countries.
I've personally seen two incidents of completely gratuitous police violence against unarmed men. One was a tiny guy at a mall who was already handcuffed and standing perfectly still when the cop suddenly flipped out and slammed him to the floor, in full view of around a hundred people. No one dared to challenge the cop. The other was a drunk Latino who was trying to run away from what looked like a police riot outside a bar. Three cops chased him down, knocked him over and thrashed him with their nightsticks while he writhed on the pavement. It made me sick. I don't see this in other civilized countries.
1
I also have been a personal witness to police violence. One time was late at night on the streets of Paris, France, where officers were beating a guy. I yelled at them to stop in my fractured, imperfect french. Needless to say, they didn't listen. Not long ago, I witnessed an apparently mentally ill woman being hit with a Taser at BWI airport when she put up about five seconds of non-compliance/resistance to being arrested.
I try to carry some sort of camera, video or still, everywhere I go in the car. One night, I pulled into a local supermarket to see police arresting someone. Well, it was obvious from the officer's hand movements that he was not merely checking the guy for weapons, he was feeling him up. As a news reporter, I also witnessed this kind of behavior on video by police at mass arrest scenes at demonstrations.
Anyone who sees police violence should endeavor to contact either a top official, a commander or a DA after the event. There is little one can do at the time, because speaking out risks being injured yourself. It is a chance I am willing to take, however, in certain, but not all, situations. It is so easy for police to get someone charged with "interfering" or "disturbing the peace" that one has to be very careful.
I try to carry some sort of camera, video or still, everywhere I go in the car. One night, I pulled into a local supermarket to see police arresting someone. Well, it was obvious from the officer's hand movements that he was not merely checking the guy for weapons, he was feeling him up. As a news reporter, I also witnessed this kind of behavior on video by police at mass arrest scenes at demonstrations.
Anyone who sees police violence should endeavor to contact either a top official, a commander or a DA after the event. There is little one can do at the time, because speaking out risks being injured yourself. It is a chance I am willing to take, however, in certain, but not all, situations. It is so easy for police to get someone charged with "interfering" or "disturbing the peace" that one has to be very careful.
Someone should offer a million dollars for video of a police shooting. A lot of the videos would exculpate the officer, but a few wouldn't.
1
What is the defining character of a criminal? Someone who thinks and act as if they "will get away with it," "it" being a lawfully defined criminal act.
4
Police dash cams and body cameras are a good idea, but they're an expensive band aid if they aren't turned on. The problem goes deeper than what we see. People are being hired as police officers who shouldn't even be permitted to carry a weapon, let alone have the power of life and death over others. Any police office who kills anyone should immediately be suspended until a thorough investigation is completed. We have to move past the notion that all cops are the good guys. They all just aren't. Some of them are one step away from belonging in a jail cell, they give the good cops a bad name. But who covers up for them? The good cops. That thin blue line is miles wide and skin deep.
2
Its a sad state of affairs when we fear for our lives from our police force more than we do from criminals.
The police should not be judge - jury and executor. Drawing and firing their weapon should be their last resort and only if fired upon first. if they fear for their lives, they shouldn't be a cop.
The police should not be judge - jury and executor. Drawing and firing their weapon should be their last resort and only if fired upon first. if they fear for their lives, they shouldn't be a cop.
6
While to some extent this is a black / white race issue, I believe the overarching issue we are facing today is the conduct of police vis a vis the public in general. Unfortunately, a substantial number of our police evidence behaviors which can result in the abuse and even the death of members of the public with whom they encounter. It is a training issue to some extent, and it also has at its root an attitudinal component. Because they have a dangerous job where they often face threats to their own lives, it seems that the lives of the citizens they encounter sometimes are not valued highly enough and the officer's safety seems to trump these lives. The police are also sometimes prone to think of themselves as a group that is apart from the community in which they serve, valuing the police brotherhood above all else.
Having spoken to police officer witnesses and police officer friends over the years, I know that abusive behavior against suspects and the planting of weapons or drugs while not common, is also not unheard of behavior. Thankfully video can shed light on events, but even body cameras will miss things. Despite some limitations, they should be required everywhere, and all incarceration and police station activities and interrogations should also be subject to video cameras. The power to detain and even harm a person is an awesome responsibility and makes the police officer powerful. There needs to be adequate supervision and accountability for their conduct.
Having spoken to police officer witnesses and police officer friends over the years, I know that abusive behavior against suspects and the planting of weapons or drugs while not common, is also not unheard of behavior. Thankfully video can shed light on events, but even body cameras will miss things. Despite some limitations, they should be required everywhere, and all incarceration and police station activities and interrogations should also be subject to video cameras. The power to detain and even harm a person is an awesome responsibility and makes the police officer powerful. There needs to be adequate supervision and accountability for their conduct.
18
When Ferguson was still in the news, NPR had a panel, one of whose members compared modern police to "fear biters" -- dogs who are so irrationally afraid, they attack people randomly.
It's ironic that, even as law enforcement becomes safer and safer for those who practice it, officers seem to be making a hysterical cult of their endangerment. Heck, their profession doesn't even make it into the top ten most dangerous jobs in the US.
It's ironic that, even as law enforcement becomes safer and safer for those who practice it, officers seem to be making a hysterical cult of their endangerment. Heck, their profession doesn't even make it into the top ten most dangerous jobs in the US.
I think this is an appropriate time to let every member of the law-enforcing-agencies to change their attitude from "ruling" to "serving" towards every member of the society irrespective of his/her color or creed.
Your first sentence is another shock. It is not "too some extent" a racial issue. It is the heart and soul of the issue. Ever had a tail light out? Ever feared death over it?
2
I suppose it is important to have a national "debate" about the role of police officers in kiliing people and then covering up any evidence that shows it might not have been justified. However...
Let's look at the facts, bold and clear.
They control all of the evidence in most cases. They seal off the area, move the arriving media back (sometimes for blocks) and they have taken an unspoken, solemn vow to protect each other.
What they say happened, happened...in 99% of the cases. There is usually no one to contradict their version.
Police officers know this. They also know that the DA works for...sound the bugles...the government, too. They know the DA is a partner with the police day by day and is going to be hesitant to say someone in the police force did wrong.
We, our society, tasked the police with pushing back against the scourge of crack cocaine in the late 1980s through the '90s. We tasked them with the war on drugs and stopping violent crime. We set loose the dogs. We gave them license. They took it.
We also task the police to be constant "bill collectors" in cities and towns where riding the backs of minorities and the poor provides funding for the local govt. What could possibly go wrong?
There are many examples of police misconduct, but they don't come to national attention because that's "local news". We've been worrying about Iraq when we should have paid attention to N. Charleston and Ferguson and the whole corrupt process of jailing and killing here.
Let's look at the facts, bold and clear.
They control all of the evidence in most cases. They seal off the area, move the arriving media back (sometimes for blocks) and they have taken an unspoken, solemn vow to protect each other.
What they say happened, happened...in 99% of the cases. There is usually no one to contradict their version.
Police officers know this. They also know that the DA works for...sound the bugles...the government, too. They know the DA is a partner with the police day by day and is going to be hesitant to say someone in the police force did wrong.
We, our society, tasked the police with pushing back against the scourge of crack cocaine in the late 1980s through the '90s. We tasked them with the war on drugs and stopping violent crime. We set loose the dogs. We gave them license. They took it.
We also task the police to be constant "bill collectors" in cities and towns where riding the backs of minorities and the poor provides funding for the local govt. What could possibly go wrong?
There are many examples of police misconduct, but they don't come to national attention because that's "local news". We've been worrying about Iraq when we should have paid attention to N. Charleston and Ferguson and the whole corrupt process of jailing and killing here.
16
"They know the DA is a partner with the police ..."
And w the media. Fewer and fewer sightings of "police said" in paragraphs dealing with accounts of an arrest. Or what they'll do is put the attribution at the very end of the sentence, by which time the suspect has been tried, convicted, and hanged. "Police engaged in a high-speed chase with the vehicle after witnessing it run a red light and seeing what looked like marijuana smoke billowing from its rear windows, pulled the car over, then shot its aggressive driver after mistaking a water pipe for an African dart gun, authorities said."
And w the media. Fewer and fewer sightings of "police said" in paragraphs dealing with accounts of an arrest. Or what they'll do is put the attribution at the very end of the sentence, by which time the suspect has been tried, convicted, and hanged. "Police engaged in a high-speed chase with the vehicle after witnessing it run a red light and seeing what looked like marijuana smoke billowing from its rear windows, pulled the car over, then shot its aggressive driver after mistaking a water pipe for an African dart gun, authorities said."
The time has come for a federal law establishing the right to videotape working police, anytime. Period.
7
That law is in place already - the Constitution of the United States. Courts have held that citizens have a constitutional right to tape.
In the month of March 2015 we have had 111 Police shootings whereas in the whole 21st century so far the Brits have not had that many, something is very wrong.
Let us go back to community policing and when you need swat teams let them come from the State National Guards units.
We must demilitarize local police and stop this madness
Let us go back to community policing and when you need swat teams let them come from the State National Guards units.
We must demilitarize local police and stop this madness
10
There are so many problems with the functionings of the American justice system that affect all races, however the murders that have always happened but have now gained the attention of the media are specifically affecting Blacks and are endemic to American culture, not just police relations. Until we stop talking around the problem these murders will continue.
2
I agree with the comments that there are deeper problems that cameras will not solve, but that does not mean cameras are not a good idea. Cameras do not lie, rather they are neutral instruments of truth. The word neutral is important. It means that the camera will not only monitor police conduct, they will also monitor the citizen's conduct. So camera footage will cut through a lot of the lies and distortions that occur in criminal cases by BOTH sides. Indeed, the known presence of a camera may make all parties behave better, increasing the safety of everyone.
4
Cameras are a good step, however, what happens when the police erase the footage? It's happened already
Morally might not a passerby seeing the Walter Scott shooting in progress be obligated to intervene? But imagine what might well happen if backup police arrived and saw the passerby try to defend the victim. What would his chances of survival be? Theoretically would the passerby be justified in shooting the policeman killing Walter Scott? I'm afraid I might succumb to doing what I believe to be right.
3
People of color continue to be subjected to unreasonable and excessive use of police force. For all his flaws, at least the Black American community has someone like Al Sharpton to make noise about these issues because at the very least it raises awareness. We need more community leaders to step up and represent minority communities that are even more timid about speaking out. Beyond these horrendous fatal tragedies, the recent incidents against the Uber driver in NYC or Suresbhai Patel in Alabama reflect "officers" that lack basic professionalism and decency towards the public they serve and who PAY their salaries. They see skin color or an otherness first and react based on whatever backward preconceived notions they have towards a group of people. Police institutions should start recruiting individuals who are less bottom of the barrel and more well-rounded and educated.
5
This cold blooded shooting by South Carolina's - Charleston policemen is no epiphany or sudden awareness for most black men, especially those originally from southern states. As shockingly as people's reaction is to the video - it's a clear and obvious demonstration of the self fulfilled prophecy of many - the action of a white policemen casually shooting a Blackman in the back is the enacting of the thoughts of many. You may not agree but many Blackmen in our communities, schools, jobs, and religious institutions feel unloved, unwelcomed and threaten, the feelings cause stress from the time of consciousness of the hidden agenda of our society. Here is the message. . .We want you out of the way so we can put the ugly parts of American history behind us. "America does not love Black men"
7
This is a nation-wide police culture that has given itself the right to be judge, jury and executioner and them lie about it, and the message that we need to internalize as a society is that police statements are of no more veracity than than that of a typical defendant. This is not a anti-police position, it is simply common sense and these videos prove it to be the case. Obviously, our police forces need to be reformed from top to bottom, but until that time people need to stop assuming that what the police say about anything is even close to the truth.
22
Police unions must be completely excluded from any involvement in cases where a cop kills a citizen. In such cases, let the law run its course in the sunshine of public hearings and trials free of the fear of and obeisance to police unions. Elected officials everywhere must do whatever it takes to tear down the so-called blue wall, which is the insidious enemy of The Truth.
We saw in New York last year (let us never forget the strangling of Eric Garner) what disdain the union there had for the community, its elected officials, and the NYPD's sworn duty to serve and protect the public. What a menace! Enough already of unions' arrogance and ridiculous insistence that no officer anywhere at any time ever does anything wrong.
This suggestion is from one who strongly supports labor unions. But not the outliers, not this one.
We saw in New York last year (let us never forget the strangling of Eric Garner) what disdain the union there had for the community, its elected officials, and the NYPD's sworn duty to serve and protect the public. What a menace! Enough already of unions' arrogance and ridiculous insistence that no officer anywhere at any time ever does anything wrong.
This suggestion is from one who strongly supports labor unions. But not the outliers, not this one.
13
All law enforcement employees should have body cameras when carrying weapons, excepting those working undercover.
All Federal funding should be withheld from those jurisdictions that don't.
All Federal funding should be withheld from those jurisdictions that don't.
6
Body cameras will result in a short term, minor drop in violence against citizens–because cops are afraid of getting caught. Not because they will start believing that killing/beating civilians is wrong. I predict the failure rate on these cameras will exceed 50% or more and that such failure rates will accelerate when incidents such as this happen.
Eventually, after a couple of cops get away with killing people while wearing body cameras, cops will go right back to murdering civilians. They don't think what they are doing is wrong.
Besides, the cops recording and storing video of every police encounter is a massive invasion of my privacy. We need cops who don't think they are above the law; not more electronic gee-gaws.
Eventually, after a couple of cops get away with killing people while wearing body cameras, cops will go right back to murdering civilians. They don't think what they are doing is wrong.
Besides, the cops recording and storing video of every police encounter is a massive invasion of my privacy. We need cops who don't think they are above the law; not more electronic gee-gaws.
Policing needs to be reformed from the first day of the academy. I've been in law enforcement for over a quarter century and take issue with two aspects of police training. Curiously neither are official courses. First, every cop these days is told that "going home at the end of the shift" is the most important aspect of policing. It isn't. If a police officer has not accepted that there comes a time when he or she will not hesitate to take risks for the greater good, a change in career is in order. Of far greater importance is the story telling young recruits are exposed to. Young police officers are exposed to dramatic recounting of great heroics, shootings and near death experiences. These stories often include a salient teachable moment. Unfortunately, the culture becomes one where young cops believe this happens all the time. It doesn't. Each of the instructors only has one or two stories, yet the perception is that there are hundreds of such stories and life as a police officer is a never ending Hollywood adventure. The first years are spent chasing that illusion and few ever realize that policing is a world of reports and restraint without a cathartic experience. The odds of a police officer being killed by an assailant are so low that it's one of the safest professions around.
The education of police needs to change. It is not a battle of good vs evil, but rather the gentle adjustment of society to remind within the bounds of acceptable norm as decided by society.
The education of police needs to change. It is not a battle of good vs evil, but rather the gentle adjustment of society to remind within the bounds of acceptable norm as decided by society.
12
If you are a cop, you're the most insightful cop I've ever heard from. You make too much sense to be a cop. Your bosses must hate you.
The officer shot the man because he was running away and a taser did not contain him. AND the officer was unwilling to run after him. The officer had a choice: run after the man or shoot him and the officer chose to shoot him? That officer must have complete confidence that his decisions will not be questioned and such self importance that he should never be required to run. What fantasy land did he live in where white men rule the world? Oh, the American south.
9
Too bad the Ferguson and Staten Island brouhahas have desensitized everyone. Will anyone protest this obvious murder as much as they did for the thugs?
1
Cops lie. Cops cover up. Cops are corrupt. Cops teach each other all these things.
17
When cops do these things they become Keystone Kops. They go after the wrong people. Who benifits? The cops and the criminals. The innocents suffer.
Cars should be equipment with some form of microphone/camera that records the policeman's conversation and actions. If he states that his next maneuver would be to shoot a driver because he or she might do something, it needs to be recorded. If the officer is intentionally disrespectful, it needs to be recorded by a camera/ microphone attached to the driver's car. If needed, this information can be given to a lawyer. Everything that is said by a policeman when he approaches a driver should be recorded by instruments in the car for the safety of the driver. African-Americans are in greater danger, but actually all citizen's are in danger when they meet a dangerous policeman.
4
Most cops who drive cars equipped with dash cameras have remote mics. Unfortunately, the use of the cams and mics is subject to the whim of the cop.
So far all the "expert's views are based on what they see on the video or what has been reported, and certainly not all the evidence. There have been incidents where someone was shot in the back and killed has been declared justified. One incident several years ago iin St. Louis County (not Ferguson) involving a bar owner and customer (both white), There was some kind of a dispute between the two after which the customer was walking (not running) away from the bar owner in the parking lot and the bar owner shot the patron in the back killing him. The case went to a jury which found the bar owner not guilty. I was amazed but i was not on the jury. In another case , in Chicago, a African American officer shot a Hispanic citizen in the back and killed him. Three shots, one head shot. If that incident would have been recorded on tape it still would not have shown that the citizen was running back to his car which contained a firearm. One may ask how the officer knew the citizen had a firearm in the car. The citizen told the officer he had a firearm in the car (which was overheard and witnessed by five bystanders) .The citizen threatened the officer before he started back to the vehicle with "I'm going to my ride, get my gun and blow your (blank) head off". Ironically, it was the citizen's head that was blown off.
My only point is that let's wait to get all the evidence in. Or is that really too much to ask.
My only point is that let's wait to get all the evidence in. Or is that really too much to ask.
3
You speculate on what might've happened to explain why the officer shot the victim in the back, but offer nothing more. If what you speculate is true, why didn't the officer report that in this official report, instead of lying about the incident? His lying (and planting of evidence) makes any excuses he now conjures seem extremely suspect.
No video will show the cop's state of mind. And it has been well and frequently shown cops are more prone to lie than to tell the truth, at least in this case–they lied in their reports about things that didn't even matter, after they all agree on what lie to tell.
None of them has even claimed that they felt the guy was running for a firearm. Nor is that shown on the video. What is clearly shown is the officer choosing to shoot, not chase; that the first thing he did after he murdered the man was to plant evidence on him; and that he colluded with his fellow cops to make up a lie they all could tell. (Then did so in their written reports.)
It is naive to think the cop will not become a fabulist and lie about the incident from beginning to end. He's already started and his buddies have already joined in. The video will be picked apart by the cop and his attorney. He will get to tell his side. And frequently cops manage to lie well enough to convince juries. In fact, I give him a better than 50% chance he will get away with this.
None of them has even claimed that they felt the guy was running for a firearm. Nor is that shown on the video. What is clearly shown is the officer choosing to shoot, not chase; that the first thing he did after he murdered the man was to plant evidence on him; and that he colluded with his fellow cops to make up a lie they all could tell. (Then did so in their written reports.)
It is naive to think the cop will not become a fabulist and lie about the incident from beginning to end. He's already started and his buddies have already joined in. The video will be picked apart by the cop and his attorney. He will get to tell his side. And frequently cops manage to lie well enough to convince juries. In fact, I give him a better than 50% chance he will get away with this.
How is it that a cop stops somebody who has committed a relatively minor and non-violent infraction and so mishandles the subject that he ends up killing him (think Eric Garner, just as one example)? Tell me there isn't an epidemic of bad policing North, South, East and West.
6
The end of this article reports a court case in which the defense for the officer asserted that "videos can lie." But they lie a whole lot less than photos. Really, photos are so hyperselectve that they capture only a very thin slice of what "happened," a very narrow selection out of whatever came before & after, & often completely extracted from the surrounding context. This has always been the problem with the question of whether photography "tells the truth." I was once excused from a jury when I gave this answer during jury selection about whether I believed photos told the truth & you can see why if you think about it. Understanding this quality about photo meant I would be "biased" when it came to viewing the bloody crime scene photos that were to later appear in the trial. However, an unedited cell phone video carries considerably fewer risks. We do see a continuous view of the action in Scott's death & we see it within a fairly large visual context that is much harder to manipulate & distort & explain away. I am glad the mayor & police chief & judge have been as clear-cut as they have so far in this case. It may signal a badly needed turning point.
3
There is just too many cops out there that joined the force for the wrong reason. Frankly if you really want to be a cop there is something wrong with you. Cops should be drafted.
2
In public spaces everyone should be wearing a video camera. All vehicles should have 360 degrees recording outside and inside.
If that sounds disturbing, ask yourself why. Sure, everyone prizes and demands privacy because they don't want to be wrongly judged, sometimes frivolously. Being monitored can bring stress and fear of losing freedom and rights.
But the dark side of anonymous actions is lack accountability. A seemingly normal person can act like a jerk driving a car because he doesn't have to face every day the people he cuts off on the road. A rogue cop doesn't have worry about being a judge and executioner if nobody can contradict his statements. Bystander's video is change all this.
Here is a suggestion to make ubiquitous video recording more palatable.
All video recording should be the property of the person doing the recording. The video must be encrypted such that only the owner can unlock it. Using the Fifth Amendment the owner must never be forced to unlock the video to incriminate themselves even the police. If you can't produce a video, then this will be deemed very suspicious and erase all credibility in the eyes of the jury. The more people do the recording, the less likely you can hide your action.
Urgently need a law that forbids people from posting videos in public or in private with the intent to pass judgment or punish. Video must first be assessed by media, government, or elected community representatives.
If that sounds disturbing, ask yourself why. Sure, everyone prizes and demands privacy because they don't want to be wrongly judged, sometimes frivolously. Being monitored can bring stress and fear of losing freedom and rights.
But the dark side of anonymous actions is lack accountability. A seemingly normal person can act like a jerk driving a car because he doesn't have to face every day the people he cuts off on the road. A rogue cop doesn't have worry about being a judge and executioner if nobody can contradict his statements. Bystander's video is change all this.
Here is a suggestion to make ubiquitous video recording more palatable.
All video recording should be the property of the person doing the recording. The video must be encrypted such that only the owner can unlock it. Using the Fifth Amendment the owner must never be forced to unlock the video to incriminate themselves even the police. If you can't produce a video, then this will be deemed very suspicious and erase all credibility in the eyes of the jury. The more people do the recording, the less likely you can hide your action.
Urgently need a law that forbids people from posting videos in public or in private with the intent to pass judgment or punish. Video must first be assessed by media, government, or elected community representatives.
1
Not to minimize this horrible tragedy, but in the case of guns...#1, why do people who are not guilty of anything flee, RUN?? WHY EVEN RUN? #2, Can't a policeman RUN after someone anymore? Or injure an arm or leg or something instead of shooting to kill?
2
One reason they run, I am certain, is a lack of trust in the cops and the system that they will be treated fairly and won't suffer unreasonable harm at the hands of the authorities. I suspect that your comment reflects white privilege of never having encountered law enforcement in the same way that minorities have.
1
Why do people run if they are innocent--how do you prove innocence on the spot when a cop can shoot and kill you with impunity?
Mr. Scott was pulled over because of a broken taillight on his car. That for him became a capital offense.
Why run? Because cops can shoot you, lie and get away with it.
AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN.
Mr. Scott was pulled over because of a broken taillight on his car. That for him became a capital offense.
Why run? Because cops can shoot you, lie and get away with it.
AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN.
mr. scott was stopped because his car rear light was broken. this is incredible even if tasers and guns were not involved. obviously another town where they are going after minorities for money.
8
I can see the utility in outfitting cops with body cams, but I have mixed feelings. I’ve been fortunate in that most of the cops I’ve met have been reasonable. Instead of ruining this dumb kid’s life, cops granted me a couple of free passes. By installing body cams we’re removing discretion. I don’t think discretion is a terrible thing for a reasonable cop to have.
1
You are wrong. A requirement for cops to wear body cams would in no way preclude cops from exercising discretion and letting potential violators off with a warning rather than arrest or a ticket. Cops always have a degree of discretion.
2
You were given the benefit of the doubt (twice). Good for you. There is little doubt that black Americans are not afforded that same consideration.
Body cams will only reinforce what the black community has known all along. There are two separate levels of enforcement and two separate levels of justice.
Body cams will only reinforce what the black community has known all along. There are two separate levels of enforcement and two separate levels of justice.
1
James, thanks for evaluating this issue in light of your experience, but recording all interactions with the police does not equate to a ban on exercising reasonable discretion.
The recordings will however discourage, as they rightly should, unlawful discrimination. This means treating two similar situations very differently based on a prohibited factor, such as race, gender, religion, sexual orientation etc. If the only recipients of an officer's lenient discretion are "dumb white kids" as opposed to "dumb minority kids," surely this is information worth recording wouldn't you say?
Any thoughts from other readers on this issue? Thanks.
The recordings will however discourage, as they rightly should, unlawful discrimination. This means treating two similar situations very differently based on a prohibited factor, such as race, gender, religion, sexual orientation etc. If the only recipients of an officer's lenient discretion are "dumb white kids" as opposed to "dumb minority kids," surely this is information worth recording wouldn't you say?
Any thoughts from other readers on this issue? Thanks.
2
The Scott shooting not only makes you wonder how often police tell the truth but how often they get away with murder.
8
I definitely believe there are more corrupt police officers out there than anyone will even dare to admit.
I have a distant relative who is a DEA Special Agent. He openly brags that we can park anywhere without getting a ticket and can get out of any traffic stop by waving his badge. If law enforcement is willing to look the other way when their "brothers" commit small offenses, what lengths will they go to protect them when the crimes are larger?
I have a distant relative who is a DEA Special Agent. He openly brags that we can park anywhere without getting a ticket and can get out of any traffic stop by waving his badge. If law enforcement is willing to look the other way when their "brothers" commit small offenses, what lengths will they go to protect them when the crimes are larger?
11
There is another group carrying guns and badges that operates with impunity and without any accountability. Congress that has given them the authority to operate this way. I am referring to the US Customs and Border Patrol or CBP agents that process you at airports when you re-enter the US. This group's rogues cannot be caught because they state you have no constitutional rights because you are in an arrival zone at a US airport. They are allowed to use and abuse you as they fit for their amusement. The only way they can be shown to be lying is by having a record of what happens. But they are so afraid of being caught, that Congress has mad it illegal to record any encounter with these thugs. CBP's silent wall of black is so bad that even the department that is there to receive complaints from the public resorts to sending threatening letters to the person who made the complaint. Of course the fact that one complained about a CBP agent's behavior is recorded and used to harass you the next time you enter the country.
10
America's criminal justice system is not the holy grail of truth and unbiased it purports. Paraphrasing Clarence Darrow: How do we prevent bigots and ignoramuses from controlling the judicial system of the United States?
I recommend that we reduce by 50% those innocently convicted; reduce by 50% those unarmed and unnecessarily shot by law enforcement personnel (LEP); decrease by 50% the dollars paid out by cities, state and other entities for egregious misconduct of LEP; deploy the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations against police departments.
Additionally, if a LEP willfully, recklessly, and knowingly or should have known that they contributed to the conviction, incarceration, and/or death of an innocent individual, the LEP should be indicted, charged and if convicted the LEP must serve the equal amount of time of the innocently convicted individual at the same prison.
Equal justice under the law is a cornerstone of our great democracy. At stake is whether people of all races can be treated the same way, i.e., like people of color. I recommend the following:
• Provide better training for LEP to ensure that white and wealthy people are equally shot, that young white males are harassed and brutalized with irrevocably deadly force.
• Provide better training for LEP to ensure that unarmed young whites males are shot by police officers who say: “s/he feared for his/her life, and shot in self-defense” enough though all shots were to the back of the victim.
I recommend that we reduce by 50% those innocently convicted; reduce by 50% those unarmed and unnecessarily shot by law enforcement personnel (LEP); decrease by 50% the dollars paid out by cities, state and other entities for egregious misconduct of LEP; deploy the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations against police departments.
Additionally, if a LEP willfully, recklessly, and knowingly or should have known that they contributed to the conviction, incarceration, and/or death of an innocent individual, the LEP should be indicted, charged and if convicted the LEP must serve the equal amount of time of the innocently convicted individual at the same prison.
Equal justice under the law is a cornerstone of our great democracy. At stake is whether people of all races can be treated the same way, i.e., like people of color. I recommend the following:
• Provide better training for LEP to ensure that white and wealthy people are equally shot, that young white males are harassed and brutalized with irrevocably deadly force.
• Provide better training for LEP to ensure that unarmed young whites males are shot by police officers who say: “s/he feared for his/her life, and shot in self-defense” enough though all shots were to the back of the victim.
2
No one should die over a bench warrant for missed child support.
This police officer clearly mudered this man, planted a taser and lied.
A national program of all police officer to wear video with audio cameras must be enforced.
Towns and cities that require cameras on their police force have lower crime rates and less police conflicts within the communities.
For all these folks making excuses for the officer because Mr Scott had a bench warrant for back child support....try thinking about your family. Yourr son or nephew being stopped for a traffic law violation and being killed for running away because he were scared. This does not happen to white people.....
If I were black, I would be organizing a national campaign with every black congressman and women to make a national federal law about cameras on police. It must happen because black lives matter!
This police officer clearly mudered this man, planted a taser and lied.
A national program of all police officer to wear video with audio cameras must be enforced.
Towns and cities that require cameras on their police force have lower crime rates and less police conflicts within the communities.
For all these folks making excuses for the officer because Mr Scott had a bench warrant for back child support....try thinking about your family. Yourr son or nephew being stopped for a traffic law violation and being killed for running away because he were scared. This does not happen to white people.....
If I were black, I would be organizing a national campaign with every black congressman and women to make a national federal law about cameras on police. It must happen because black lives matter!
5
Why not go ahead and organize the campaign, even though you're not black?Black lives do in fact matter quite a bit, whether or not you're black.
The problem may be mitigated with body-cams but the core issue that remains is when you need 24 hour monitoring to make sure these cops are not mis-behaving, there is either something wrong with your training, or you have recruited the wrong kind of people to begin with.
41
What are some of the reasons someone wants to have authority over others, wear a uniform, be part of a "force", "enforce" laws and carry a gun on the job? Some of those reasons are not good. Dealing every day with what police deal with can easily turn the good cops sour. What does it do to the "marginal" ones? The actions of our police are a product of how we choose them, how we train them and the stress of the job. It is "we" who have the problem and it is up to "we" to fix it. "We" can't be just blaming the cops. I have great concern for what all this is doing to the "good" cops. The heroes. The men and women who have do extraordinary things to protect us. Let's not forget to appreciate the "good" ones while we clean this up.
Amen to this truth brother.....exactly!
The U.S. now has a million trained former soldiers, many who become police. Body cams are a must.....this cog won't change overnight.
The U.S. now has a million trained former soldiers, many who become police. Body cams are a must.....this cog won't change overnight.
I cannot second this thought strongly enough. If we feel the need to surveil our police as they go about their jobs, all trust between community and police has been lost. The relationship has become adversarial. We all (police, elected representative, community) need to take a step back and understand that the most effective form of policing is not based on vigorous deterrence, but on trust. The onus is primarily on police forces, and police unions, to bring about a change in the instilled culture of militant policing. But we all have a role to play in making this come about. Police should be an extension of the community, not an imposition on it.
This also generates a larger philosophical conundrum about justice and potentially double standards for those who are seeking it. First, are we entering a fray where only video evidence is admissible to establish justice? Second, are we placing racial minorities (essentially blacks and maybe latinos) against a tougher burden of proof by relying on existence of video evidence? Difference between Ferguson and North Charleston certainly seem to suggest so.
2
The conclusion of the article says it all. Despite so much evidence to the contrary, Americans have a resilient degree of naivete, and give the police far more benefit of the doubt than they deserve. I feel strange saying that, as I am a huge supporter of the police when they carry themselves as genuine public servants fulfilling a civic duty. We need them, there is no doubt. But it seems clear the profession draws a lot of people that are not cut out for public service and don't have an even keeled disposition to handle stress and the occasional fight or flight situation. All you have to do is watch the state troopers speed in the passing lane and force you out of the way - no lights or siren - to get the sense they feel entitled to act above the law. It can only get worse from there. That has to change - Cops Gone Wild is a serious problem. I can't think of the down side to body cameras yet, so I'm all for every single officer wearing one. It seems the only sure way we can all start to gain a little trust back, which is too bad it has to be that way.
2
It's pretty simple to me. All police officers should be required to wear cameras on their uniforms and have them on their cars or get another job! The cameras are there for not only their protection but for the protection of the people they become involved with. And yes, policewomen and men are human and make mistakes in stressful situations but with only a biased understanding of what happened, they are allowed to lie their way out of what I consider 'gross' mistakes. I cringe at the thought of how many other shootings like this have been covered up over the years. This needs to stop!
The cameras are no good if the cop turns them off.
Why don't police departments embrace guidelines that are based on common sense. Is ANYONE worth shooting over a traffic violation? A broken tail light? A stolen package of cigarettes? Even an outstanding warrant for a non-violent crime like child support? NO.
Police officers are supposed to protect the public from danger, and if the crime that's been committed isn't a danger to the public, keep the guns holstered. Figure out ways to be better police officers.
Police officers are supposed to protect the public from danger, and if the crime that's been committed isn't a danger to the public, keep the guns holstered. Figure out ways to be better police officers.
4
Let's keep our concentration on the officer was shooting an unarmed man and the officer's life was not in any danger, as per the video.
Shooting an unarmed suspect is the problem, not race.
Shooting an unarmed suspect is the problem, not race.
1
I was a lawyer for a major American city, and one of my job responsibilities was representing the city in termination proceedings for city employees, such as police officers.
When I started my job, I quickly learned from my fellow lawyers that of all the municipal employees, the police officers were the ones who were most likely to lie and cover up the truth about a shooting, brutality complaint or any other allegation of misconduct. There was a code of silence among officers, and they would almost never rat out a fellow officer. They also had no hesitation to plant evidence to protect themselves.
For years, I helped fire bad cops, and my own experience confirmed what my colleagues had told me. I could tell you tale after tale of officers planting guns or drugs on people, or pretending that they had not seen a shooting by a fellow officer.
I realize that I was seeing the bad apples in the police department, but my experience convinced me that you can not really trust the police to tell the truth or do the right thing if they could lose their job or get indicted. They live in a world where everyone is potential perp and see their work as the fight of good against evil, where the ends justify the means. So no matter what they do, they see it as justified.
This shooting of Walter Scott goes by the playbook I saw in my own cases: a throw down taser and false police reports. Without the video, it would be another "justified" shooting and cop off the hook.
When I started my job, I quickly learned from my fellow lawyers that of all the municipal employees, the police officers were the ones who were most likely to lie and cover up the truth about a shooting, brutality complaint or any other allegation of misconduct. There was a code of silence among officers, and they would almost never rat out a fellow officer. They also had no hesitation to plant evidence to protect themselves.
For years, I helped fire bad cops, and my own experience confirmed what my colleagues had told me. I could tell you tale after tale of officers planting guns or drugs on people, or pretending that they had not seen a shooting by a fellow officer.
I realize that I was seeing the bad apples in the police department, but my experience convinced me that you can not really trust the police to tell the truth or do the right thing if they could lose their job or get indicted. They live in a world where everyone is potential perp and see their work as the fight of good against evil, where the ends justify the means. So no matter what they do, they see it as justified.
This shooting of Walter Scott goes by the playbook I saw in my own cases: a throw down taser and false police reports. Without the video, it would be another "justified" shooting and cop off the hook.
13
Seriously Mark? Apparently your view is just as jaundiced as that of the police officers you pursue. Police officers continually see the dark side of the population, white, black, yellow or red. Police officer NEVER get a call that Mrs. Jones just finished a apple pie - but if Mr. Jones just beat Mrs. Jones, the police officer gets the call. Unconsciously you and most other folks in this country go to bed knowing that someone is outside, in the dark protecting you or is merely a short distance away. How many of you would be willing to put on a uniform with a big target on your back and go out into the night and protect people you do not know? I'd venture not many. As for Mr. Scott, indeed he may not have done something that warranted his death, but until the black community begins to realize they have a problem well beyond being a target for law enforcement, then and only then will change occur.
The image that we see, on one level, is Slager shooting Mr. Scott in the back, but if you zoom out to the historical context, you have yet another white man hunting down and gratuitously killing yet another black man, and the terrorizing of blacks in the American South by whites continues. It would be impossible in one paragraph to represent the depth of the atrocity of the enslavement of Africans over hundreds of years and the suffering it caused, but it also damaged the people who committed those acts. The evil they perpetrated took away their human hearts and left them cold and rotten to the core. They raised their children, fast forward a few generations, and here we are, with a police officer who, failing to see the humanity of the man he stopped, shot him as if he were pesky vermin instead of, say, running after him and calling for backup. This isn't about police/civilian issues, it's about racism, and living in the legacy of slavery. If we are ever to heal and become a less cold-hearted and violent society (why ARE we so much more violent than Canadians, after all?) we need to start at least to speak correctly about our past and how it has shaped our present--if we want a different future for our children and grandchildren. We can't let this continue. Imagine if German police officers were gunning down Jews in the streets in Germany--this is equally unconscionable.
5
I wonder if Walter Scott was a White man if he would have been shot to death for a traffic offense.Disgraceful, enough, enough, enough.
1
The police seem to have stopped doing any police work. The academies, from what I've read, are teaching, coming home alive at night, is a cop's major concern. It's all tase and pepper spray at close range, and shoot to kill at any distance. The notion that a suspect might be deaf, mentally ill, on drugs, or does not speak English never enters the picture. This combined with the increased militarization of the nation's police forces PLUS the reality of rarely being held accountable for mistakes and/or bad decisions has
created a serious environment of mistrust of law enforcement.
In the shooting of that 12 year old with a toy gun in Chicago , and an unarmed teen in a NYC, the police ALSO made no attempt to get medical care for their victims. The cop in NYC was on the phone - to his union rep.
NYC stairwell. It seems almost a miracle, in retrospect, the academies were
able to weed George Zimmerman out.
created a serious environment of mistrust of law enforcement.
In the shooting of that 12 year old with a toy gun in Chicago , and an unarmed teen in a NYC, the police ALSO made no attempt to get medical care for their victims. The cop in NYC was on the phone - to his union rep.
NYC stairwell. It seems almost a miracle, in retrospect, the academies were
able to weed George Zimmerman out.
7
Of course, police are generally NOT nice, even here in our little town. Everyone (including this 80 year old white male) should avoid them as much as possible by simply following every rule or, in my case, stop driving entirely.
If possible, of course, their behavior should be recorded and they should be prosecuted. But, realistically, this is NOT always possible.
Again: obey all rules 'religiously' and do NOT give the police any reason to 'overreact'.
If possible, of course, their behavior should be recorded and they should be prosecuted. But, realistically, this is NOT always possible.
Again: obey all rules 'religiously' and do NOT give the police any reason to 'overreact'.
Currently there are so many laws on the books that even the most responsible can find themselves in the cross hairs of a bullying cop. I'm profoundly concerned that a good citizen like yourself is so worried about the temperament of our police that you feel the need to cower in their presence.
The police are public servants and as such need to adhere to some basic common curtsey and common sense. Do do no discharge a pistol on a running man unless that person it an immediate threat to another person or yourself because the bullets you are discharging could hit someone several hundred feet away. Our police are out of control. And it's time we, as law abiding citizens, said "enough."
The police are public servants and as such need to adhere to some basic common curtsey and common sense. Do do no discharge a pistol on a running man unless that person it an immediate threat to another person or yourself because the bullets you are discharging could hit someone several hundred feet away. Our police are out of control. And it's time we, as law abiding citizens, said "enough."
Police will learn to take selfies with their video cameras that serve their narratives easily enough. Take this what just occurred with Slager shooting Scott. If Slager had been wearing a camera, likely after his taser (shot from his perspective), the camera would be jostled, maybe pointed at the ground, then we'd hear Slager saying something like 'stop!' And then we'd hear shooting. The camera would be 'readjusted' and deliver footage of the fallen Scott and the cautious approach, gun drawn in foreground, then handcuffing.
The footage that Feiden Santana filmed was from medium distance and framed the shooter and the victim. The perspective made clear that Scott posed no immediate threat to Slager, or anyone else.
What we need are laws that are the equivalent of whistle blower laws that protect citizens from police retribution for recording their actions. The individual who produced the images of Eric Garner being killed was later arrested and sits, awaiting bail in Rikers on a hunger strike because he claims guards have laced his food with rat poison. Ramses Orta is his name. Google it. You will see that according to his family's side of it he was framed and set up by the NYPD, whose PR people quickly worked to discredit him as 'being a drug dealer with priors,' after the Garner footage was publicly posted.
The footage that Feiden Santana filmed was from medium distance and framed the shooter and the victim. The perspective made clear that Scott posed no immediate threat to Slager, or anyone else.
What we need are laws that are the equivalent of whistle blower laws that protect citizens from police retribution for recording their actions. The individual who produced the images of Eric Garner being killed was later arrested and sits, awaiting bail in Rikers on a hunger strike because he claims guards have laced his food with rat poison. Ramses Orta is his name. Google it. You will see that according to his family's side of it he was framed and set up by the NYPD, whose PR people quickly worked to discredit him as 'being a drug dealer with priors,' after the Garner footage was publicly posted.
4
How many other victims of this cop's planting evidence are now in prison and should have retrials?
2
Good question.
Sadly, if history offers guidance, all white jury will fail to convict and gentleman who video taped incident will be indicted, charged and found guilty for "something."
5
Just because that happens 90% of the time doesn't mean it happens 90% of the time!
#ConservativeLogic
#ConservativeLogic
The NYTimes should investigate hiring practices for the police departments across the country. In ATL, the local newspaper did an investigation and found close to a third of the ATL police had criminal records. BEFORE they were hired, they had criminal records. Does it make sense to make a criminal or anyone that has behaved in a violent way (burglaries count too) a cop? Ever?
I know many want to give criminals a second chance. But we are talking about making them cops, with the power to do what we see here in this article. Not acceptable.
I know many want to give criminals a second chance. But we are talking about making them cops, with the power to do what we see here in this article. Not acceptable.
3
This is a good way to get back one's "god-Given" 2nd amendment rights. Hey, the only one who can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Even if that good guy was once a bad guy (as long as he is white)
The really sad part about this is the cop would have gotten away with murder if a bystander hadn't video taped the cops crime. The PD just rallied around him for 4 days before the video was published by the NYT. How many innocent people have been executed by cops with no fear of being brought to justice. This isn't an aberration. For anyone who thinks this is a problem for a 2 bit town in the south, google John Geer in Fairfax County VA. He was gunned down by a Fairfax cop in his doorway without making a move. The cops stiffed the Commonwealth attorney's investigation as well as the Board of Supervisor's oversight over the PD. The local DA had to get the feds to do an investigation while the country attorney did everything possible to prevent the feds and the DA from getting the shooter's personnel records. At least here, there was a community uproar that focused on the county elected officials and forced them to fire the deputy county attorney and form an independent review board to examine the PD. In a lot of places, if the dead person is poor or a person of color, nothing happens.
6
The problem isn't the cameras or lack of them. The problem is the lying and the willingness of other officers to cover up misconduct by one of their own.
Remember the police report that was submitted after Eric Garners death made no mention of a take down choke hold. It simply said "suspect experienced breathing difficulty when taken into custody." It was a lie. The sergeant who was present at the arrest took no steps to control or supervise the situation.
In the Cleveland case it's physically impossible for an officer to exit a car, give a warning and fire twice in less that three seconds. Yet that's what was claimed. Lying has become a part of police culture and on the heels of our increasingly punitive society the attitude of police is that the suspect was guilty of something so it doesn't matter if that something didn't justify the initial arrest.
Whether it's smoking marijuana, public drinking, jay walking, a malfunctioning brake light, all these seemingly minor events are resulting in citizen deaths. Why? Because police are poorly trained, poorly supervised, taught to lie by the blue culture and rarely rebuked by the courts. Bratton's two day re-training of police on community relations is a joke.
So let's start with policy changes. End broken windows policing now. Return to community based policing. Change the culture so that officers aren't evaluated based on how many summons or arrests that they make. Bring in new leadership and then add cameras.
Remember the police report that was submitted after Eric Garners death made no mention of a take down choke hold. It simply said "suspect experienced breathing difficulty when taken into custody." It was a lie. The sergeant who was present at the arrest took no steps to control or supervise the situation.
In the Cleveland case it's physically impossible for an officer to exit a car, give a warning and fire twice in less that three seconds. Yet that's what was claimed. Lying has become a part of police culture and on the heels of our increasingly punitive society the attitude of police is that the suspect was guilty of something so it doesn't matter if that something didn't justify the initial arrest.
Whether it's smoking marijuana, public drinking, jay walking, a malfunctioning brake light, all these seemingly minor events are resulting in citizen deaths. Why? Because police are poorly trained, poorly supervised, taught to lie by the blue culture and rarely rebuked by the courts. Bratton's two day re-training of police on community relations is a joke.
So let's start with policy changes. End broken windows policing now. Return to community based policing. Change the culture so that officers aren't evaluated based on how many summons or arrests that they make. Bring in new leadership and then add cameras.
54
I believe the larger problem to be that we are scraping the bottom of the barrel for police officers. There are too many police officers who should never have been hired. If every time a suspect twitches, you feel your life in danger, you should not be a police officer. And much of the fault lies with juries for accepting this laughable defense. If you want a safe job, be an accountant not a police officer.
7
It starts at the top. We have a President who says it is within his authority to order drone strikes in foreign countries to "take out" suspected "terrorists," even if "non-combatants" (i.e., innocent people in the wrong place at the wrong time) get killed as well. No charges filed, no judge, no jury. Just the President: prosecutor, judge, jury and executioner, all wrapped into one.
So it starts at the top and infects our whole culture. ls it any wonder the police feel they are empowered to do likewise? They're armed to the teeth as a military force and taught to respond that way.
There are good men and women on police forces everywhere who do incredibly difficult work every day, largely unseen and unappreciated for what they do. That we end up with situations like is a direct result of a changed cultural landscape since 9/11. We can and should do better.
So it starts at the top and infects our whole culture. ls it any wonder the police feel they are empowered to do likewise? They're armed to the teeth as a military force and taught to respond that way.
There are good men and women on police forces everywhere who do incredibly difficult work every day, largely unseen and unappreciated for what they do. That we end up with situations like is a direct result of a changed cultural landscape since 9/11. We can and should do better.
2
There's no denying that this officer appears to be totally in the wrong. But 2 things baffle me...a traffic stop handled while they stand in a park(?) and Mr Scott runs away, why? If the evidence shows that the officer's actions show that he was wrong and addresses answer both of my 'baffles', I fully accept them, but until then, again 'why?'
To all of the folks who are surprised and shocked by this video, and believe that this is a brand new phenomenon with policing in communities of color, this has been occurring forever. Your shock only proves your past incredulity to this problem, when people of color have been screaming about this for ever. Disbelieving racists call it BGI (Black Grievance Industry).
Since the end of slavery, these practices of police abuses have been used by authorities as a back door to subjugation.
If you ever bothered to read the Thirteenth Amendment (Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction), it states that the police shall be used to created new slaves if you can make a conviction.
That's easy!
However, technology of video cameras may have finally caught up to this beast. Maybe?
Since the end of slavery, these practices of police abuses have been used by authorities as a back door to subjugation.
If you ever bothered to read the Thirteenth Amendment (Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction), it states that the police shall be used to created new slaves if you can make a conviction.
That's easy!
However, technology of video cameras may have finally caught up to this beast. Maybe?
2
If we allow ourselves to totally lose confidence in the integrity of our police system, we will never recover. The push for body cameras is a symptom of a broader concern... that we no longer believe or take seriously the law enforcement oath.
America needs a restoration of trust, not an utter condemnation of those we endow to protect us. Let us not forget that police are still a force for good in the world - the heroics of many should not be perverted by the unforgivable sins of a few.
America needs a restoration of trust, not an utter condemnation of those we endow to protect us. Let us not forget that police are still a force for good in the world - the heroics of many should not be perverted by the unforgivable sins of a few.
1
Suppose Mr. Scott told the officer, right before fleeing, that he was "going over to that school and kill me a bunch of kids". Justified shooting?
Supposed the cop told his wife "I'm going to kill a suspect today", does that make this shooting justified?
Oh, was my comment not relevant to the facts? Gee, think yours is just as relevant or irrelevant?
Oh, was my comment not relevant to the facts? Gee, think yours is just as relevant or irrelevant?
If we allow ourselves to totally lose confidence in the integrity of our police system, we will never recover. The push for body cameras is a symptom of a broader concern... that we no longer believe or take seriously the law enforcement oath.
America needs a restoration of trust, not an utter condemnation of those we endow to protect us. Let us not forget that police are still a force for good in the world - the heroics of many should not be perverted by the unforgivable sins of a few
America needs a restoration of trust, not an utter condemnation of those we endow to protect us. Let us not forget that police are still a force for good in the world - the heroics of many should not be perverted by the unforgivable sins of a few
1
Paul,
I think your comment is a couple of decades out of date - The police have proven that they cannot be trusted. Police have far too much purview into the lives of our citizens. They are a militarized force staffed by individuals that may or may not be suitable candidates. Additionally, it has been shown that arming officers for tasks such as traffic stops, neighborhood patrols is fraught with danger to our citizenry, particularly if you are a "minority," and especially if the police force does not represent the community with which they are charged to "protect;" though as we've seen they are financial enforcers for local courts and gerrymandered districts.
The concept of a police force needs to be complete re-thought - it's run it's course and should be re-imagined.
I think your comment is a couple of decades out of date - The police have proven that they cannot be trusted. Police have far too much purview into the lives of our citizens. They are a militarized force staffed by individuals that may or may not be suitable candidates. Additionally, it has been shown that arming officers for tasks such as traffic stops, neighborhood patrols is fraught with danger to our citizenry, particularly if you are a "minority," and especially if the police force does not represent the community with which they are charged to "protect;" though as we've seen they are financial enforcers for local courts and gerrymandered districts.
The concept of a police force needs to be complete re-thought - it's run it's course and should be re-imagined.
Just like the all-white jury that found the Rodney King-video cops not guilty, a similar jury will likely also allow this criminal to go free. There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see!
3
This is an obvious case of murder, and I believe that the police officer has been charged. Would have been interesting to 'hear' what he had to say without a video; and what the cop that joined him after the fact would have said about dropping the taser next to the guy's body. Something tells me the story would have been different.
Years ago my father was defending a man in Detroit who's eye 'fell out' during interogation. Hmmm. Took almost a year to get a court hearing, but it was canceled as the man died of 'natural causes' a few nights before. The man was black. The police interogating him were black. Not an issue of racism, more an issue of absolute power and the 'brotherhood' where cops 'protect' one another. The latter is certainly a necessity given the job, but not if it covers up the truth.
Years ago my father was defending a man in Detroit who's eye 'fell out' during interogation. Hmmm. Took almost a year to get a court hearing, but it was canceled as the man died of 'natural causes' a few nights before. The man was black. The police interogating him were black. Not an issue of racism, more an issue of absolute power and the 'brotherhood' where cops 'protect' one another. The latter is certainly a necessity given the job, but not if it covers up the truth.
5
This is the worst I have ever seen. Rodney King got 5 star treatment next to the way this cop gunned down Walter Scott. Wow.
2
Rodney King did get five-star treatment that's true. And $5 million.
It may have been sloppy police work but it certainly wasn't any serious incident.
Rodney King was not hurt it was all staged.
If the police would really have been violent there would have been no tape. He could've been subdued easily before anyone could go running to get a video
It may have been sloppy police work but it certainly wasn't any serious incident.
Rodney King was not hurt it was all staged.
If the police would really have been violent there would have been no tape. He could've been subdued easily before anyone could go running to get a video
I used to be a police officer. Nobody is addressing the fact these people are resisting arrest. In virtually every police shooting, fighting, struggling, car-chasing, choking video we see, nobody is addressing the fact that these people are endangering the police officer and the public when resting arrest. The offender knows he has nothing to lose by resisting arrest and trying to get away because he knows there will be no additional penalty for doing so. In virtually every court, the first thing plea-bargained away is, Resisting Arrest, even when the officers are injured. I even had one judge state, "I don't blame him, I wouldn't want to be arrested either."
Until these people know and understand there is going to be a guaranteed penalty for resisting arrest, you will continue seeing police officers injured and killed performing their duties and bystanders injured in car chases. You just won't see it on the six o'clock news when police are the casualties.
Until these people know and understand there is going to be a guaranteed penalty for resisting arrest, you will continue seeing police officers injured and killed performing their duties and bystanders injured in car chases. You just won't see it on the six o'clock news when police are the casualties.
1
So Jerry how does that make it justifiable to shoot an unarmed man in the back? Was the penalty that you speak of warranted in this case? I believe that any police officer injured or killed in the line of duty would be publicized in the news. Plain and simple the police culture needs fundamental changes in order to stymie the proliferating erosion of public trust.
Fair enough, but c'mon, this is an UNARMED man with his back turned. That does not warrant an execution, which is what this was. The officer's life was never in danger here, not even for a nanosecond. Whatever happened to a pursuit? Cops don't chase suspects anymore? Are you telling me he could not radio in for backup to apprehend a suspect? What kind of training do police receive these days? Seems to me it's always shoot first and sort it all out later.
What has happened to this country? Is this new behavior or is just the first time it's actually being documented and exposed? Either way, recent events have made me, a white middle aged woman, fearful of the police. I can't imagine the impact this has on non-whites. Many of our jails and prisons are no better than our streets in terms of uniformed abuse. Something has to change, we need protection, not intimidation, racism or outright murder.
30
Too true. The recent spate of questionable police actions has given me pause. A few weeks ago, I witnessed a traffic dust up in which a white driver cut off another car, exited and began screaming at a car full of black passengers. Traffic was backing up and one of the black passengers exited the car. The situation began to escalate. I hesitated and ultimately decided not to call the police.
I realize now that I was afraid of how the police would assess the situation. (This occurred in a predominantly white working class area.) Rational or not, I was concerned about how the police would respond to the car full of black passengers and I didn't want to play even a small part in any potential negative outcome. Who will police the police?
I realize now that I was afraid of how the police would assess the situation. (This occurred in a predominantly white working class area.) Rational or not, I was concerned about how the police would respond to the car full of black passengers and I didn't want to play even a small part in any potential negative outcome. Who will police the police?
If we allow ourselves to totally lose confidence in the integrity of our police system, we will never recover. The push for body cameras is a symptom of a broader concern... that we no longer believe or take seriously the law enforcement oath.
America needs a restoration of trust, not an utter condemnation of those we endow to protect us. Let us not forget that police are still a force for good in the world - the heroics of many should not be perverted by the unforgivable sins of a few
America needs a restoration of trust, not an utter condemnation of those we endow to protect us. Let us not forget that police are still a force for good in the world - the heroics of many should not be perverted by the unforgivable sins of a few
4
And what is your plan to get there?
There is no reason to not make Audio and Video evidence mandatory for all police interactions.
Justice should be based on facts. The best tools available should be used to collect those facts.
Clear records are needed if the goal is to manifest justice through a chain of events that involves multiple people spanning a significant amount of time (perception of crime, arrest, representation, court, etc...).
Reality based fact gathering will align the laws with actions of the individuals, as opposed to manipulative testimony/actions on both sides.
The cost is extremely low, far less than the court costs of testimony based trial abuse.
Justice should be based on facts. The best tools available should be used to collect those facts.
Clear records are needed if the goal is to manifest justice through a chain of events that involves multiple people spanning a significant amount of time (perception of crime, arrest, representation, court, etc...).
Reality based fact gathering will align the laws with actions of the individuals, as opposed to manipulative testimony/actions on both sides.
The cost is extremely low, far less than the court costs of testimony based trial abuse.
7
Maybe white America will now finally understand why many African Americans celebrated when O.J. was acquitted.....they've watched while black man after black man after black man were literally executed by white police for minor offenses and saw the lies, conspiracies, cover ups, planted evidence and exonerations. If anyone thinks South Charleston, or Ferguson, or Cleveland or Albuquerque or NYC, or....or...is a recent phenomena, you are truly blinded by your racism.
3
Speaking of racism, if you think all white Americans band together to form some sort of 'White America' simply by having the same skin color, you've got a lot of growing up to do. Also, OJ was guilty. There is no justice for all those innocents in letting an actual murderer go free.
Excuse me but that does not excuse the fact that blacks commit most of the murders and violent crime in the United States even though they're only a small portion of the population.
Let's not forget that fact. That has a lot to do with these cases.
Let's not forget that fact. That has a lot to do with these cases.
Something that probably has not much been mentioned is the palpable absurdity of the whole situation.
Both Scott and the officer did ABSURD things. The moment their life paths crossed resulted, or was in the lead up, the result of absurdity. Scott, according to reports, had fathered several children, but had warrants out for his arrest for failure to pay child support - and yet he had just purchased a car. Think about that. Absurd.
Scott fled from the officer, probably fully aware of how the police treat black men in North Charleston, as well as elsewhere and yet he chose to run anyway. Under the circumstances, again, absurd. What was he thinking? That somehow he, a 50 year old man, and all that that condition implies, could get away?
Again, absurd.
The officer upon initiating the stop HAD to be aware of the recent problems
engendered elsewhere recently as a result of police tactics and prejudices. And yet, he was so arrogant that he chose this very same, or similar, set of actions in conducting himself, including the old saw of the throw down, which, you will note, he did right in front of a witness who he doubtless thought, because of the "code" of complicity among law enforcement personnel, could be relied upon to not give him away.
How absurd.
And he chose the other actions too, even though he had to know that that they were not proper procedure.
Now his life is ruined.
Absurd, on both sides.
Both Scott and the officer did ABSURD things. The moment their life paths crossed resulted, or was in the lead up, the result of absurdity. Scott, according to reports, had fathered several children, but had warrants out for his arrest for failure to pay child support - and yet he had just purchased a car. Think about that. Absurd.
Scott fled from the officer, probably fully aware of how the police treat black men in North Charleston, as well as elsewhere and yet he chose to run anyway. Under the circumstances, again, absurd. What was he thinking? That somehow he, a 50 year old man, and all that that condition implies, could get away?
Again, absurd.
The officer upon initiating the stop HAD to be aware of the recent problems
engendered elsewhere recently as a result of police tactics and prejudices. And yet, he was so arrogant that he chose this very same, or similar, set of actions in conducting himself, including the old saw of the throw down, which, you will note, he did right in front of a witness who he doubtless thought, because of the "code" of complicity among law enforcement personnel, could be relied upon to not give him away.
How absurd.
And he chose the other actions too, even though he had to know that that they were not proper procedure.
Now his life is ruined.
Absurd, on both sides.
Maybe he needed a vehicle to get to work so that he could pay child support. Have you ever been to North Charleston? Public transit isn't a high priority. You have to drive everywhere.
Your assumptions are absurd. The citizen run was a reacton motivated by fear not by thinking , his murderer shooting was a decision he made after seeing his victim running for few seconds, cowardly he shoot and then jump on a dead man to cuff him, sad day for America. ( Sorry but I can't call officer to a predator, he does not deserve that title, he never did).
Cameras protect good cops too.
From lies told by people they are detaining or just interacting with.
If you are a good cop, you have nothing to hide in your actions, and so you shouldn't oppose cameras.
And yes, that sentence sounds like a discredited argument against Internet privacy.
But police work is a government job, not a private endeavor, and everything the police do is a matter of public policy and public record. If they do something wrong, our tax dollars pay for their mistakes. Our tax dollars pay for their salary.
Therefore, cameras must come. I want to see what my tax dollars are doing (I'm just using a figure of speech, of course the privacy of those being detained by police is important, and so strict rules about who gets to see what footage for what reason must exist).
From lies told by people they are detaining or just interacting with.
If you are a good cop, you have nothing to hide in your actions, and so you shouldn't oppose cameras.
And yes, that sentence sounds like a discredited argument against Internet privacy.
But police work is a government job, not a private endeavor, and everything the police do is a matter of public policy and public record. If they do something wrong, our tax dollars pay for their mistakes. Our tax dollars pay for their salary.
Therefore, cameras must come. I want to see what my tax dollars are doing (I'm just using a figure of speech, of course the privacy of those being detained by police is important, and so strict rules about who gets to see what footage for what reason must exist).
5
The officer's apparent calm and unconcern for his victim is absolutely chilling. I think the person who recorded this crime should be commended for their bravery. If the cop had known he was being filmed I really think the camera person would have been in mortal danger.
6
"The ability to record has gotten so prevalent that police can no longer count on their account to be the truth,' Mr. Harris, the Pittsburgh professor, said."
Perhaps the police should join the rest of us and count on the actual truth, as opposed to "their account" to be the truth.
Perhaps the police should join the rest of us and count on the actual truth, as opposed to "their account" to be the truth.
2
Wouldn't it be wonderful to hear that a national association of cops had been formed with the aim of improving community policing, as opposed to, say, burninshing the image of existing systems, or of defending the philosophy of cops as frontline troops occoccupying enemy territory?
Officer Wilson in Ferguson was surrounded by a thick wall of blue silence in which the local prosecutor colluded. George Zimmerman was allowd to go home and fix himslef up in any way he felt necessary before returning to the station to give his statement.
Our problems with our cops are too prevalent to be fixed by votes in local councils. Can honor and a spirit of service be rescued from the garbage bag of 24/7 TV?
Officer Wilson in Ferguson was surrounded by a thick wall of blue silence in which the local prosecutor colluded. George Zimmerman was allowd to go home and fix himslef up in any way he felt necessary before returning to the station to give his statement.
Our problems with our cops are too prevalent to be fixed by votes in local councils. Can honor and a spirit of service be rescued from the garbage bag of 24/7 TV?
2
This is an instance in which a police officer blatantly murdered an unarmed man. There is no doubt in my mind on that. However, the media needs to quit portraying the issue as black vs white. On NBC last night, they showed a statistic from the NAACP stating that, and I might be off by one or two, 76 unarmed African Americans had been shot since 1999. Is that acceptable, no, but I did some digging into the matter. On the website jimfishertruecrime.blogspot, Jim independently collected data on police shootings in 2011. According to his data, the police shot 1,146 people that year. Now lets say that's the average every year, just for the sake of estimation. That means the police have shot roughly 17,200 people since 1999. Divide 76 by that number and it comes out to .0044. That means in all shootings since 1999, unarmed African Americans account for roughly less than half of 1%. That does not make it right, I understand. Guys like this are still despicable. But if you read every article on this matter, it says white officer shoots an unarmed black man at some point of another. For one, racism will never cease to exists until we remove color from the matter and say an officer shoots unarmed man. Secondly, the media needs to quit skewing the facts to benefit their stories for it's a dangerous game. And finally, people need to quit believing every thing they hear on the news and do some research on their own. The real facts are out there, it just takes a little effort to find them.
These incidents, just the tip of the iceberg, just reflect the sorry state of our police and judicial system. Its is totally broken, just as our incarceration system is. We are the embarrassment of the developed world - indeed no developed country has rates of violent crime, rates of institutionalized crime against its citizens, rates of incarceration. We live in what is essentially a police state - with more people in jail than any country in history, shootings by police figures that all the other developed countries combined (3 times out population can't match), a judicial system that is fundamentally unjust, retributive, cruel and destructive and which has with no capacity, or even interest in reforming inmates. Lets not even get into sentencing laws that target minorities for the most ridiculous crimes, while letting off the white collar stuff as small digressions. Led, largely, by incredibly uneducated and incompetent people who follow political and even religious ideologies instead of what science and effective practices tell us we should be doing. All this in a background of an economically unjust society with quality of life indicators that are an embarrassment. When we will realize that the American dream is actually a nightmare for large swaths of our people, that our effective campaign of disinformation and marketing, coupled with our unique level of ignorance and insularism, have essentially blinded most of us to the horrible realities of the american life....
3
This might have been Michael Brown had we had the video. I'm not saying it is - we don't have a video and there is not enough evidence to conclude that case was the same, but can you honestly not blame blacks for believing that Michael Brown was also probably executed given the video we have just seen? The fact that there are heroic officers that risk their lives every day should not blind us to the fact that there are horrible officers out there who are on power and control trips and who represent a threat to all citizens.
3
In the late 1950s in Brooklyn a 17 year-old-boy was shot in the back by a police officer when he refused to stop running after throwing a garbage can through a basement window of a home on 17th street between Prospect Park West and 8th avenue. No charges were filed against the police officer because, at the time, "Stop or I'll shoot" was a common standard practice. It shocked me then, as a teenager, but over the years I took some comfort in seeing the policy evolve to permit use of an officer's firearm only when imminent deadly force threatened the officer's life. What I now wonder is what training is in place to exemplify how the officer should handle the routine and understandable flight from apprehension of a suspect who is not threatening the officer's life. In an instance where an officer has knowledge of the identity and address of the suspect one would hope that no immediate pursuit is really necessary and surely no use of deadly force to bring to justice someone who poses no deadly threat to the officer or anyone else. Can the New York Times investigate what the training manual decision-tree looks like for the New York police officer who is confronted with a similar situation to the North Charleston (or Staten Island) situations?
5
Incidentally, thus police officer should also have been fired, or at least disciplined, for incompetence with his weapon. Eight shots at that range and he only hit him four times? He is a deadly hazard to everyone within half a mile.
2
We can't really judge from the video, despite it's clarity, whether the officer was/is racist. However the point of this clear video (not unlike the very clear Staten Island choke hold video) is it is irrefutable in it's brutality. Hopefully the South Carolina jury won't give the police officer a pass. But the root cause here (and relates to Ferguson, Staten Island, LA and other incidents), there are too many bad cops. Police departments obviously do a very poor job of screening out individuals who are not stable, easily intimidated, and unable to make good decisions in tough situations. The Department deserves a lot of the blame and it appears endemic to all police departments. There is not good training in decision making and options. In all of the recent cases, the officers went from saying they felt threatened (no evidence of that here) to using deadly force. Ferguson cop said he considered taser but felt Mr. Brown was too big for it to be effective- next step shoot to kill- an unreasonable decision making chain. Here too, taser apparently tried, that didn't work ok so my next option is shooting the person in the back- An act of not only shameful cowardice, but an officer with zero skills in handling situation that should almost be routine. Universally improved training in decision making and less than deadly force options need to be instituted nation wide.
2
A good reason to create a code of national policing.
Unfortunately, over the past year or two the press and activists have made this a black v police and even a black v white police issue. It's not a race issue. This sort of thing is happening everywhere to everyone. It's a 'police, get some discipline' sort of thing a quit exceeding the limits. You've gotten too used to violating our rights because the community is too afraid to reign you in because of a need for public safety. And it isn't just shooting people, it extends to stops and all areas of public contact.
3
One can only assume you are not black to make such a naive statement. Unfortunately this makes you part of the problem. And considering where you live, enough said!
One critical fact of this case is that the video only surfaced after the police officer who was involved had staked himself to a story. Most often, when a civilian shooting by police occurs, the officer, per his union contract, will be given an extended time (often a day or two) before he will be required to give a statement as to what actually happened. If the officer has access to a video of the incident, he can craft his statement to match the video. That option was not available to the officer in this case, and his story's inconsistencies were exposed when the video arose.
Car and body cameras will be most useful if they are not available for viewing by the shooting officer, or those who can coach the shooting officer, before that officer provides his official statement as to what happened. My guess is that most often the shooting officer will have direct or indirect access to that video before giving their statement, meaning we will get plenty of the "testilying" referred to in earlier comments.
Car and body cameras will be most useful if they are not available for viewing by the shooting officer, or those who can coach the shooting officer, before that officer provides his official statement as to what happened. My guess is that most often the shooting officer will have direct or indirect access to that video before giving their statement, meaning we will get plenty of the "testilying" referred to in earlier comments.
10
A police officer once insinuated that his next maneuver would be to shoot me because he was concerned I might not obey a roadblock (not that I had but that I "might"). I have never looked at police in the same way since. If I had been a black man instead of a white woman I might well have been dead. For whatever reasons, many people drawn to law enforcement careers either are or become fixated on the idea that people must obey and respect them without questioning -- and are further unable to process even perceived disrespect or disobedience except as a personal insult. Add a gun, racial assumptions about the worth of other people and the benefit of the doubt that society extends to the police, and there you have it. A lot of dead people who might not be stars in their community but who certainly weren't doing anything that deserved lethal force. I don't have sympathy for the police, because this is a self-inflicted wound. Better psychological screening and training and intolerance for deviant behavior would improve things considerably. Refusal to engage in those things just tells you that the managers and police chiefs of today were the Officer Slagers of yesterday.
27
While it is exciting that many more departments are moving towards using body cameras the next battle will be access to the footage. There are a few states that are already moving to restrict access to the footage based on the police department's discretion. The video evidence is useless if the police departments refuse to release to cover up officer misconduct.
Videos taken with phones by ordinary citizens, while imperfect, allow for more transparency. The issue runs much deeper than just easy accountability. It is the us versus them mentality that police forces across the country have. We need more transparency, more accountability and more community engagement with the police as a whole. With out these things there will not be real trust in our police force anytime soon.
Videos taken with phones by ordinary citizens, while imperfect, allow for more transparency. The issue runs much deeper than just easy accountability. It is the us versus them mentality that police forces across the country have. We need more transparency, more accountability and more community engagement with the police as a whole. With out these things there will not be real trust in our police force anytime soon.
28
That we need body cameras to improve policing is a symptom of how quick we are to deal with problems as if they exist outside of our minds and hearts. That is to say, of course it's a good idea to have body cameras, but that's only because of the, now proven by the DOJ, systematic racism that exists in some police departments. Obviously the root of the problem is cultural and psychological and spiritual, but for complex reasons we try and solve our moral issues through regulation and law suits. Granted we need both external and internal measures to solve complex problems, but gosh I wish "technologies" that opened up our internal landscapes to change were part of the conversation. Or in other words, more stuff won't create more empathy.
10
We the people need to fight tooth and nail for the right and even the responsibility of filming the police during encounters. And equally as hard, we need to fight for harsh and swift punishments for those officers that would ever think to violate this right. Where do we start? Ballot initiatives, it's time we took our democracy back and end the police state now.
20
"...could have been prevented.":
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/cop-charged-in-shooting-of-una...
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/cop-charged-in-shooting-of-una...
"Just about EVERYTHING that is broken in this country can be summed up by the still image showing the black man running away from an officer who is taking aim at him, about to kill him IN COLD BLOOD."
And just about EVERYTHING is broken in this country. The question is when do decent, thinking, feeling, educated -- yes, I said educated -- people say no more, and seriously start to fix things. And it's going to take a lot more than voting for candidates that are bought and paid for by a few billionaires.
And just about EVERYTHING is broken in this country. The question is when do decent, thinking, feeling, educated -- yes, I said educated -- people say no more, and seriously start to fix things. And it's going to take a lot more than voting for candidates that are bought and paid for by a few billionaires.
3
I'm 62 and my knee hurts, but I could've chased down that 50 year old man and put him on the ground long enough to decide whether the situation called for stronger action. Something is seriously wrong with that cop, and there need to be consequences for whoever hired him. I suspect they wanted exactly that type of personality. That's the real problem.
2
What ever happened to Serve and Protect?
Some officers need a constant reminder that they are employed by the citizens as their salaries are coming from tax payer money.
Some officers need a constant reminder that they are employed by the citizens as their salaries are coming from tax payer money.
2
Citizens must be willing to provide and insist on body camera use for all officers. As in every profession, there are some bad apples, but in the case of police, the end result can be death. My deepest condolences to the families.
3
Body cams will not stop this from happening, you are mis-judging the depth of the problem.
As I commented in another place, perhaps it is time to change the slogan which now appears on police cars - "Protect and Serve" to "We Come, We See, We Shoot".
4
Ferguson
Cleveland
Staten Island
North Charleston
All examples of horrific abuse of power by police. But why, in the process of providing some perspective on the recent events by including recent past events (those mentioned above), is not the elderly Indian man who was paralyzed in Alabama every mentioned by journalists?? Was his skin tone not dark enough? Do we only sensationalize horrific acts of police brutality if the victim is black? Why do journalists not feel compelled to include the Indian man in their discussion of racism, police brutality, etc. It's sickening.
Cleveland
Staten Island
North Charleston
All examples of horrific abuse of power by police. But why, in the process of providing some perspective on the recent events by including recent past events (those mentioned above), is not the elderly Indian man who was paralyzed in Alabama every mentioned by journalists?? Was his skin tone not dark enough? Do we only sensationalize horrific acts of police brutality if the victim is black? Why do journalists not feel compelled to include the Indian man in their discussion of racism, police brutality, etc. It's sickening.
2
The fact that the man who took the video was "afraid" of police retaliation and this man's death says it all.
The ethics of policing in America need to be revised since it has for too long been based upon the threat of force and predication. Force is not the only tool for inforcing the law.
The ethics of policing in America need to be revised since it has for too long been based upon the threat of force and predication. Force is not the only tool for inforcing the law.
2
Even with body cameras you cannot be assured of justice. About 12 years ago I was followed by a New Jersey state trooper from near Stewartsville NJ to Reigelsville Pa, a distance of about 18 miles, the last three or so with his bumper nearly kissing mine. My 9 year old daughter was in the back seat and was terrified because this guy's grill was right in my back window. Just a block or so before I reached the bridge to cross into Pennsylvania, he hit his bubblegum lights and stopped me. I was doing nothing wrong, so he claimed my daughter wasn't wearing a seat belt. His car had a video camera. His video camera clearly showed my daughter wearing her seat belt. The judge in Flemington, NJ not only agreed with him, but chastised me for not having a seat belt on my daughter, who was traumatized by the event for a long time afterwards. When a cop lies, they smear the honor of the majority of good officers who work very hard to do a good job. I forgave the officer in my heart for lying. Maybe he had a bad day. Or maybe he saw a black guy he thought was a drug pusher -- I was driving a Volvo station wagon with my daughter in the back seat. Whatever the case, here's the real trouble: this officer -- and that judge -- they're both likely still out there, and if they lied to protect each other this time, what's to stop either from lying again?
James McBride
James McBride
14
I am not a proponent of police officers wearing cameras. Our focus and money should not be on capturing violence by police officers, but in preventing it.
3
True enough, and who says anybody would ever see footage like this if it was filmed by the police? 'Oh, the defendant broke my camera, so I had to shoot him".
Sitting here in Toronto, Canada, I'm convinced that it would be hard to visit the U.S. again. Two years ago I spent a month in one of your mid-western states where my son is a leading doctor at a hospital there, I'd begged him not to take the job when it was offered, because as a black man,I was convinced that he'd be treated differently, however, he accepted the position, and lives there now.
Racism against black people is a virus which has infected a portion of the white section of earth's people's, and sadly, not enough white people speak out about this.
I'm not confused with segregation versus discrimination. I understand that people will prefer their own, however, we have to be careful not to cross the line of discrimination which leads to racism.
At this time, perhaps it's important to say that I'm proud that the vast majority of white people that I've met have not exhibited racist behaviour, but those who are seem to gravitate to professions where they can do the most harm.
As a retiree, we'd love to visit the Smithsonian, but this decision has been constantly deferred because every time we lean towards going, another murder of a black person is reported, and the disgust forces a rethinking of our hope.
I believe we'll just spend a month in Jamaica this year instead.
I urge all those who care about others to speak out about the injustice of racism.
Racism against black people is a virus which has infected a portion of the white section of earth's people's, and sadly, not enough white people speak out about this.
I'm not confused with segregation versus discrimination. I understand that people will prefer their own, however, we have to be careful not to cross the line of discrimination which leads to racism.
At this time, perhaps it's important to say that I'm proud that the vast majority of white people that I've met have not exhibited racist behaviour, but those who are seem to gravitate to professions where they can do the most harm.
As a retiree, we'd love to visit the Smithsonian, but this decision has been constantly deferred because every time we lean towards going, another murder of a black person is reported, and the disgust forces a rethinking of our hope.
I believe we'll just spend a month in Jamaica this year instead.
I urge all those who care about others to speak out about the injustice of racism.
5
Did I not read recently that Texas wants to criminalize citizen video taping of the police? Shame. This is a form of freedom of speech and keeps the authorities in check.
2
Cameras are and will be part of out future. In airplane cockpits to law enforcement. Just a matter of time.
What strikes me is the disconnect between why the person was stopped in the first place and a violent crime. Whether an 18 year old was walking in the middle of the street or someone had a broken tail light, if he really did have a broken tail light, the person is now dead and families are changed forever.
2
I note that the media have once again run amok on reporting a story. I wonder how many time the visual and print media have shown that video of the shooting? I at first thought, perhaps in the thousands because they seem to repeat it over and over and over and over on every TV outlet and every newspaper. If you add in world-wide the total is probably over a million. I can't speak for anyone else, but I have been anesthetized so much that I no longer see it sharply or hear it. I now change channels to a non-news channel when that visual appears. Or, most times, I turn the TV off and read a book. I should have picked up that habit long ago. That long ago observation about TV becoming a "vast wasteland" has certainly come true.
I'm so grateful someone was there to film this heinous act of cowardliness. It is offensive to hear how uncomfortable officers are about being filmed, and the idea that they would get aggressive towards bystanders recording them is unsettling.
While body cameras may be a step in the right direction, officers will always have the option to "forget" to turn them on, block them or in other ways obscure them. It saddens me to think that we now live in a world where the police cannot be trusted and we as citizens must be ever vigilant to safe guard one another; a job the police are being paid to do (quite well often).
I rather hope that we can re-instigate policies of fairness, objectivity, compassion and basic human decency. How many of these incidents must come to light before real and lasting change is enacted?
While body cameras may be a step in the right direction, officers will always have the option to "forget" to turn them on, block them or in other ways obscure them. It saddens me to think that we now live in a world where the police cannot be trusted and we as citizens must be ever vigilant to safe guard one another; a job the police are being paid to do (quite well often).
I rather hope that we can re-instigate policies of fairness, objectivity, compassion and basic human decency. How many of these incidents must come to light before real and lasting change is enacted?
2
Arthur Phleger said - ". Had the initial struggle also been on the video, there would be a lot more sympathy for the cop. They would probably not be calling it "murder" but some lesser charge. " Even if there was a struggle, even had the policeman been punched, he shot an unarmed man, who presented no obvious danger, 8 times in the back, the last shot clearly delayed for accuracy, then planted a taser next to the handcuffed dying man to fit his story. Arthur, you might want a lesser charge and support this behaviour, but under the law, this is murder. I'm guessing you aren't African-American?
2
Many police officers, and police departments, have been shown to have a tradition of lying to protect each others mistakes and misdeeds, frequently at the expense of innocent citizens. It's ludicrous to trust in videos from the foxes; thank goodness so many of the hens now have cameras.
3
It has now become an affirmative duty for every American with a smart phone to film ANY police violence that occurs near him or her. We need to create a climate of healthy fear for police officers that "the whole world is watching" them all the time, and has a record of every violent act they commit. The tragic murders of police officers recently have reminded us of how they put their own lives on the line for us daily, and they deserve our respect and gratitude. But the murderers among them need to be put on notice that America's not going to tolerate killing people like poor Walter Scott under such circumstances anymore. All praise to North Charleston to showing America how it's done when such a heinous crime is committed, and we can be sure of what happened.
6
The video speaks volumes in what was wrong with the officer's actions. The justice system will deal with the next steps. And experience shows that the justice system works just fine as we have seen with mr. Wilson, mr. Martin and others.
So now the torrent of media hype begins telling us to fear cops, telling is that all cops are raciat. Telling us that local police departments are incapable of training and managing their own. And oh yes that we are a gun obscesswd society and all the guns need to be taken away from law abiding citizens.
This is what the ideological left does. Never will they mention the statistics of cops protecting all citizens, local police forces being close to the community and best positioned to adapt law and training to the unique needs of their community. Never will they mention the number if times good people with guns protected themselves and saved lives. Never will they tell the story that cops save all lives and all lives do matter.
No, it will be a media brainwashing exercise with society as the victim of their results.
So now the torrent of media hype begins telling us to fear cops, telling is that all cops are raciat. Telling us that local police departments are incapable of training and managing their own. And oh yes that we are a gun obscesswd society and all the guns need to be taken away from law abiding citizens.
This is what the ideological left does. Never will they mention the statistics of cops protecting all citizens, local police forces being close to the community and best positioned to adapt law and training to the unique needs of their community. Never will they mention the number if times good people with guns protected themselves and saved lives. Never will they tell the story that cops save all lives and all lives do matter.
No, it will be a media brainwashing exercise with society as the victim of their results.
1
The earliest form of police in the United States were patrols to ensure that slaves not on their plantation had written permission from their master.
Not that much has changed in the last 200 years.
Not that much has changed in the last 200 years.
6
First, this was not deadly force, it was out and out murder. Second, without video the officer's word is accepted ant the magic words are "I feared for my live." Third cops lie and protect one another shoot an unarmed person.
Nothing happened to that cop until the citizen video surfaced and nothing would have of it had not. Now with the popularity of cell phones with cameras and pocket cameras that take video we may have fewer instances of black men shot in the back as they are running away several times. .
Nothing happened to that cop until the citizen video surfaced and nothing would have of it had not. Now with the popularity of cell phones with cameras and pocket cameras that take video we may have fewer instances of black men shot in the back as they are running away several times. .
3
Last night on Chris Matthews "Hardball" show, he interviewed police experts (an African American Chief from Florida and a white man whose creds escape me at the moment). In the discussion about the taser gun evidence, the male guest insinuated a startling comment into the conversation in the last minute of the segment. It was his view that the officer was justified in placing the stun gun to the scene where Mr. Scott lay dying (or dead). Why? To "recreate" the crime scene. Really?
But this is exactly how it unfolds in the real world...where in most cases a video of the planting of evidence (also known as staging a crime scene) happens all too frequently. the police officer's act was reminiscent of the good old fashioned "throw-down."
Fortunately the Chief, in a very smooth and successful talk-over Chris, contradicted that assertion with proper police procedural commentary.
But this is exactly how it unfolds in the real world...where in most cases a video of the planting of evidence (also known as staging a crime scene) happens all too frequently. the police officer's act was reminiscent of the good old fashioned "throw-down."
Fortunately the Chief, in a very smooth and successful talk-over Chris, contradicted that assertion with proper police procedural commentary.
1
There is an enormous difference between a video record controlled by prosecutors, police and politicians, and a video record controlled by the people. Video from police cameras can and will be used selectively, and not always in the interests of justice, by those in power.
As we spend billions to equip police with video cameras — adding enormously to the reach of our already-oppressive Surveillance State — the Law of Unintended Consequences is about to bite us where it hurts.
As we spend billions to equip police with video cameras — adding enormously to the reach of our already-oppressive Surveillance State — the Law of Unintended Consequences is about to bite us where it hurts.
1
The 2 simple rules which citizens should observe are:
1) Give the same credence to the testimony in court of a policeman as is given to the testimony of the defendant.
2) Police department statements to the public should be given as much credence as statements to the public by a defense attorney.
1) Give the same credence to the testimony in court of a policeman as is given to the testimony of the defendant.
2) Police department statements to the public should be given as much credence as statements to the public by a defense attorney.
1
This will never end as long as every city, county, state and even federal govt treat the police force as revenue agents, back by a corrupt congress and supreme court who make the laws allowing police to pull over any one they want for what every reason or lack excuse they can think of, just so they can think of what ever reason to search you in the hopes of finding cash or drugs, but its the cash thanks to the fed asset forfeiture laws that have the cops of this blood trail for money.
When we finally end the training for police to killing, what happen to just shot to take a person down, now the police have the taste of police and would rather kill because they know they courts will protect them.
When we finally end the training for police to killing, what happen to just shot to take a person down, now the police have the taste of police and would rather kill because they know they courts will protect them.
2
This incident is an indictment of American culture--
of our national obsession with weaponry;
the ease with which we kill and maim others;
our nonchalance in reaction to such killings and maimings (whether inside or outside our borders);
the disrespectful and demeaning attitudes some of us in America have toward others of us in America;
the greed and avarice we practice, even applaud;
and the disrespect we show truth, knowledge, and wisdom.
They're all part of the same basic phenomenon. And this reality is driving us apart, causing some to either leave the country or move to areas more to their liking, and others around the world to want nothing to do with us.
of our national obsession with weaponry;
the ease with which we kill and maim others;
our nonchalance in reaction to such killings and maimings (whether inside or outside our borders);
the disrespectful and demeaning attitudes some of us in America have toward others of us in America;
the greed and avarice we practice, even applaud;
and the disrespect we show truth, knowledge, and wisdom.
They're all part of the same basic phenomenon. And this reality is driving us apart, causing some to either leave the country or move to areas more to their liking, and others around the world to want nothing to do with us.
3
I just have to say, it goes back to the training. I was taught over and over and over again about the use of force, every time I was on the firing range we went over safety and use of force. So, it seems like the PD's need to step up their training re: firearms. Also, how many times per year do the officers go for firearms training? In some PD's it's once a year.... that is crazy. I think the cameras though, are a very good thing. Keeps everyone accountable, to some extent.
1
We expect police to exercise modern, enlightened discretion, and yet we equip them with primitive weapons that date from the days of horse-drawn wagons and wooden sailing ships. Surely in the 21st century we can come up with a more advanced and reliable method of incapacitating suspected wrongdoers.
2
"Surely in the 21st century we can come up with a more advanced and reliable method of incapacitating suspected wrongdoers."
The officer first used a Taser[1], which is exactly what you describe. Why it didn't work is an open question.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser
The officer first used a Taser[1], which is exactly what you describe. Why it didn't work is an open question.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser
Food for thought : in the month of March, US policemen have killed 111 persons. More than the English police in ... a century. Could there be a problem somewhere?
8
Let this be the time we say, "No more". We need a national society of whistleblowers: Let's name it the Santana Society after the man, a foreign national, who showed us the way.
7
Can't we collectively press our legislators to enact a law whereby if someone is actively fleeing and obviously not armed or shooting a police officer, that it automatically becomes illegal for a police officer to shoot someone in the back?
5
There is already a law, it is called Tennessee v. Garner, and is a SCOTUS case that says exactly that. However, if we fail to hold the police accountable to that ruling, then it really doesn't matter what the law is as the police (have) become a law unto themselves (which seems to be pretty much how they view themselves now). It is a pity as I used to really support the police. Anymore it seems they wish to behave or see themselves as more of an American STASI.
I guess the law goes is not for police, judge and politician, just for the public and passerbuy.
2
Had there not been a video of this the word of the police officer would have been believed. His insistence that his life was in danger would have been accepted. I still believe that most police officers are responsible and not out to execute people. However, cameras are necessary.
5
Instead of adding a camera to the public safety officer's uniform, I would prefer to see us, as a country, subtract the weapon/weapons.
8
Two words: gun control.
2
It has been my experience with police (60 years), being of Asian decent. Police never tell
the truth. They see events in their own unique way. Judges ALWAYS go along with the
cops. I no longer have a drivers license because of this injustice. Cops truly enjoy handing
out punishment to minority people. In the town I live in, when you go to traffic court there
are ten minority people to every one white person being charged with a traffic offense. The
cops just wait at the town line for a minority person to drive in and they follow that person
immediately. They then tell that person "this is what you did". Then it is "tell it to the judge"
who needs the endorsement from the local PBA to get elected. The judge then tells the
person being charged, "I have to believe the police officer". I am sick of looking at cops.
the truth. They see events in their own unique way. Judges ALWAYS go along with the
cops. I no longer have a drivers license because of this injustice. Cops truly enjoy handing
out punishment to minority people. In the town I live in, when you go to traffic court there
are ten minority people to every one white person being charged with a traffic offense. The
cops just wait at the town line for a minority person to drive in and they follow that person
immediately. They then tell that person "this is what you did". Then it is "tell it to the judge"
who needs the endorsement from the local PBA to get elected. The judge then tells the
person being charged, "I have to believe the police officer". I am sick of looking at cops.
21
A technical thought.. What about adding a "gunsight camera" to the underside of the pistol, in addition to the body camera?
3
Criminals and suspects will lie. Some cops will lie or turn body cams off.
This will lead to where no one wants to go: Overhead cam recording everyone, all the time outside their home, sometimes inside their home. Maybe controlled by the local or federal government or HOA? What a mess!
Let's police our own problems in all sides before we're driven to total idiocy.
This will lead to where no one wants to go: Overhead cam recording everyone, all the time outside their home, sometimes inside their home. Maybe controlled by the local or federal government or HOA? What a mess!
Let's police our own problems in all sides before we're driven to total idiocy.
Contrary to the common refrain, the vast majority of police officers in our country are not honorable. The biggest problem with policing is their code of silence. Just like the Mafia, if you want to stay on the force, you will keep quiet and cover up for your partner. Any officer that watches an atrocity like this and remains quiet is dishonorable. Cover up a cold blooded murder in order to keep a job? Where is the honor in that? Unfortunately, the police forces are not policing themselves. When was the last time you heard an officer file a complaint against another officer? I'm sure it happens, but it's so rare that you'd think the cops are angles. We have to break the code of silence.
15
Stop militarizing police - reinstate 'To Serve and Protect' as their mission. Now, too many police officers behave as if they belong to cheap militias...
15
Aside from the possible racial aspect to this killing (and I admit that's a big aside), there are other aspects to this.
1. Police are taught how to use weaponry, and,,they're repeatedly tested in their skills. The weapons are tools of the trade. Isn't it human nature to want to use the tolls?
2. Of course, police are taught the rules of engagement. But, I wonder, just how seriously are the rules taught and how seriously are they taken by the police candidates. If the "diversity training" required by many corporations is any guide, I doubt that the training is taken very seriously at all.
3. Then, there's the issue of the police candidate's basic mental and emotional makeup. I'm not qualified as any kind of expert, but, it seems to me that any man or woman who has anger problems or has an aggressive nature, should never be a cop. Some people have an emotional makeup which causes them to want to "put up their fists" at the early stages of any conflict. Imagine those same people with a gun in addition to their fists.
1. Police are taught how to use weaponry, and,,they're repeatedly tested in their skills. The weapons are tools of the trade. Isn't it human nature to want to use the tolls?
2. Of course, police are taught the rules of engagement. But, I wonder, just how seriously are the rules taught and how seriously are they taken by the police candidates. If the "diversity training" required by many corporations is any guide, I doubt that the training is taken very seriously at all.
3. Then, there's the issue of the police candidate's basic mental and emotional makeup. I'm not qualified as any kind of expert, but, it seems to me that any man or woman who has anger problems or has an aggressive nature, should never be a cop. Some people have an emotional makeup which causes them to want to "put up their fists" at the early stages of any conflict. Imagine those same people with a gun in addition to their fists.
3
We have to stop the culture of lying in law enforcement. The lying is what leads to everything else. Because of lying, police know they will get away with assault, even murder. Because they know they can get away with it, they think nothing of beating and shooting because they know there will be no repercussions.
All the laws and rules regarding police behavior, in fact our constitution itself, means nothing if we have a law enforcement culture that is based on lying.
So how to change that culture? Cameras, in every conceivable place, are a good start. Officer Slager and his fellow officers would have acted the way they did in this case if they knew they were being witnessed by a camera.
All the laws and rules regarding police behavior, in fact our constitution itself, means nothing if we have a law enforcement culture that is based on lying.
So how to change that culture? Cameras, in every conceivable place, are a good start. Officer Slager and his fellow officers would have acted the way they did in this case if they knew they were being witnessed by a camera.
6
I can only think that anyone who believes that cops don't lie is remarkably sheltered. From what I've seen, they have contempt for the law and the truth. They know that the system is on their side and that there are rarely consequences for misbehavior. The story of the camera being wrested away from the 16-year-old followed by false charges is typical of the behavior that I've seen.
This kind of behavior occurs because society has made a decision to do nothing about it. Look at Simi Valley, look at the Garner case. If someone died because you or i put him in a chokehold, you can bet we'd be looking at 20 years to life. The cops are on the side of middle class white people, the victims of the police are often far from sympathetic -- something that has been played down in the articles about these cases -- so everyone decides to look the other way.
Cameras can certainly help here, though as the Simi and Garner cases suggest, even video may not be enough when it's a matter of a poorly-behaved black man vs. the people who defend us.
This kind of behavior occurs because society has made a decision to do nothing about it. Look at Simi Valley, look at the Garner case. If someone died because you or i put him in a chokehold, you can bet we'd be looking at 20 years to life. The cops are on the side of middle class white people, the victims of the police are often far from sympathetic -- something that has been played down in the articles about these cases -- so everyone decides to look the other way.
Cameras can certainly help here, though as the Simi and Garner cases suggest, even video may not be enough when it's a matter of a poorly-behaved black man vs. the people who defend us.
18
The propensity of cops to make up "facts" to support their stories is widely known across the criminal justice system - by prosecutors, defense lawyers and judges alike. There's even a name for it - testilying, adding little bits of color and circumstance to bolster the cop's statement.
Years ago, when I was turning onto the Brooklyn bridge ramp from the Brooklyn side, I followed the green turn signal, only to be pulled over by a cop who was 100 feet down the road past the light and who was outside of his squad car, leaning into the window and talking with his partner, his butt facing the intersection. As I drove by, they put on the flashers and I pulled over. He said I went through a red light - I asked him how he could tell since he couldn't see the light. He said he could tell from the "traffic flow", even though I was the only car at the intersection at the time.
I went to traffic court, and he testified that he was considerably closer to the intersection than he actually was and that he had a clear view of the light from his vantage point. The judge bought the story, and I had to pay the fine.
Years ago, when I was turning onto the Brooklyn bridge ramp from the Brooklyn side, I followed the green turn signal, only to be pulled over by a cop who was 100 feet down the road past the light and who was outside of his squad car, leaning into the window and talking with his partner, his butt facing the intersection. As I drove by, they put on the flashers and I pulled over. He said I went through a red light - I asked him how he could tell since he couldn't see the light. He said he could tell from the "traffic flow", even though I was the only car at the intersection at the time.
I went to traffic court, and he testified that he was considerably closer to the intersection than he actually was and that he had a clear view of the light from his vantage point. The judge bought the story, and I had to pay the fine.
40
Traffic stops seems to be a special category in NYC, you are presumed guilty because you were driving. I was in a livery car which was pulled over on the 30th of the month for "a bad brake light". At the end of the trip, about 5 blocks further, the driver asked me to check. They were, of course, functioning perfectly. No surprise, as the car was immaculately maintained.
Not to equate my story with this despicable act, but I too have lost all faith that "the system" is fair. And I am an older white male. It was a traffic accident where the local pigs were issuing tickets rather than helping to control traffic. I am so pained for Mr. Scott and his family I have no words for my sorrow for the Scott family nor my disgust for the pig.
What about the propensity of the unbiased media to make up 'facts' that support their story......like the 'hands up, don't shoot' LIE of the Ferguson story? Or the made up 'facts' in the Duke and UVA rape cases that the media used to to support their stories (political agenda)?
The media never cared about the prominent role it played in destroying Officer Wilson's life or the role it played in attempting to destroy the lives of the Duke Lacrosse players or the fraternity members at UVA.
The media never cared about the prominent role it played in destroying Officer Wilson's life or the role it played in attempting to destroy the lives of the Duke Lacrosse players or the fraternity members at UVA.
The ability of cell phones to take videos is a god send. Truly.
The whole point of USA citizens allowing local and state police to carry guns is that those police will only *rarely use them.*
18
There are thousands upon thousands of instances where police interact with the general public everyday that don't result in people getting killed, and very often result in someone saved, taken out of harms way, or a dangerous crime prevented. This jerk cop, and those like him in police forces elsewhere, absolutely ruin it for the majority that are just trying to do their job safely.
24
The sad part is that it only takes a extremely small percentage of any population to enact draconian measures in response to actions such as these.
In this case, there does seem to be a bigger issue with this particular police department that cameras will not help.
In this case, there does seem to be a bigger issue with this particular police department that cameras will not help.
5
Yes but be careful with this sentiment.
The whole "Officer Slager was one bad apple and we fired him" is exactly what you are going to hear from various authorities in an effort to make the larger issue of "cop shooting first at citizens and then lying" go away.
The whole "Officer Slager was one bad apple and we fired him" is exactly what you are going to hear from various authorities in an effort to make the larger issue of "cop shooting first at citizens and then lying" go away.
20
TM--
I'm sorry to disagree with the perfunctionary bromide that most of anything are good, and that only a few ruin the perception.
Where are the "good cops" voices when shootings or brutality occur? Do you recall what happened when the mayor questioned the actions of the few? The union head blasted civil authority for questioning the police actions, and many of the rank and file turned their backs on our elected officials, and went on a slowdown.
The shootings may be done by a few, but many if not most police support the notion that law enforcement should not be subject to civilian review, and that it is always better that a civilian be shot in error or anger, then a policeman be threatened.
We need police that understand restraint, and that possess more physical courage. The current culture is inacceptable, and not caused by a few.
I'm sorry to disagree with the perfunctionary bromide that most of anything are good, and that only a few ruin the perception.
Where are the "good cops" voices when shootings or brutality occur? Do you recall what happened when the mayor questioned the actions of the few? The union head blasted civil authority for questioning the police actions, and many of the rank and file turned their backs on our elected officials, and went on a slowdown.
The shootings may be done by a few, but many if not most police support the notion that law enforcement should not be subject to civilian review, and that it is always better that a civilian be shot in error or anger, then a policeman be threatened.
We need police that understand restraint, and that possess more physical courage. The current culture is inacceptable, and not caused by a few.
1
We have grown complacent and let not only cops but the courts run roughshod over the constitution. The Supreme Court has ruled prosecutors can't be jailed for lying and false imprisonment and that cops who killed unarmed people can't be prosecuted. The courts have gone along with cruel and unusual punishments like years in solitary and decades in jail for minor offenses. And legislators keep looking for harsh sentences to show they are tough while people rot in prison.
We have a moral crisis where no one would want their friends or relatives in the justice system because it is a de facto punishment to even be charged or go to jail. We think it's the other guy, the bad guy, the poor people - you get the picture. And we let prosecutors abuse our accused and children, extorting confessions from them because they want to escape the craziness. It's got to stop.
We have a moral crisis where no one would want their friends or relatives in the justice system because it is a de facto punishment to even be charged or go to jail. We think it's the other guy, the bad guy, the poor people - you get the picture. And we let prosecutors abuse our accused and children, extorting confessions from them because they want to escape the craziness. It's got to stop.
18
The U.S. outnumbers other western industrialized countries in the number of people they lock up by, I believe, four fold. It is absurd. What shouldn't be allowed are the for-profit jails. That brings money under the table to lawyers, judges and jailers. Very corrupt. And lives are destroyed.
So true. And if a cop doesn't like you he can work with a DA to exact revenge on you. Cops should wear cameras, however, the overreach of surveillance on citizens is an abomination! Our entire justice system is a joke.
In this country, we gave the police too much power. That, plus racism make incidents like this happen too often. Police need not only the body-camera but also good training of how not to racial profiling (no one should be shot dead for a traffic stop!!!). hey should also be trained not to shoot first, particular at an unarmed men. But will thing change? No, I do not think so. There are a segment of the society who went into the police force to "fix" things, and they are wy too trigger happy.
14
I feel sorry for police today.
In the past, they could make decisions based on what is best for the community. But today, they are nothing more than a tool used to provide more revenues to municipalities and to provide more prisoners for the prison system.
The fact that the interaction between a police officer and a person with a job, a family and a broken tail-light escalates to anything more than a stern conversation is obscene.
What have we allowed our police to become?
In the past, they could make decisions based on what is best for the community. But today, they are nothing more than a tool used to provide more revenues to municipalities and to provide more prisoners for the prison system.
The fact that the interaction between a police officer and a person with a job, a family and a broken tail-light escalates to anything more than a stern conversation is obscene.
What have we allowed our police to become?
26
What have we allowed *our society* to become.
It's precisely because police have been given the benefit of the doubt and protected by the system and the thin blue line that this terrible behavior has gotten to this point. If justice were done, the bad apples would be weeded out and the good cops would be held in high regard.
As they say, "the toothpaste is out of the tube". Guns in Amerika? When only the police (and the armies) have guns they will be misused. This vid isn't only shocking, it's sad because it's the truth. Guns are a tool of racism and crazy gun-happy white guys who join the police.
8
Stop the racism. Gun-happy cops who like to intimidate come in all races and creeds. Whites get harassed too. Have tattoos, shaved head, or whatever look strikes a cop as not appropriate...you are fair game for harassment regardless of race. Been there.
Debate? If this video is proven accurate, after all the media is irresponsibly running it every 30 seconds. A trial should be held immediately and justice applied. Why would you debate anything here; even the guys lawyer bailed on him, I mean how bad is that? Black, white, brown, yellow, who cares? Basic human rights transcend race and the news should just drop this slant on the topic. What was done here was abhorrent whatever the player.
7
The debate is a tactic to keep it in the public's face and to justify playing the sickening video over and over and over.
Just make MSNBC, CNN etc offices and their staff gun-free, police-free zones, with a large hammer-and-sickle tag reading "Progress!" to be displayed on their person while out and about. That will keep scary cops and icky ordinary people ten feet away. And private police force in the form of armed guards for Ted Turner and Hanoi Jane.
Just make MSNBC, CNN etc offices and their staff gun-free, police-free zones, with a large hammer-and-sickle tag reading "Progress!" to be displayed on their person while out and about. That will keep scary cops and icky ordinary people ten feet away. And private police force in the form of armed guards for Ted Turner and Hanoi Jane.
So if it was the guy who commented above about "testilying" it wouldn't matter that he was gunned down? As long as there was no video? The playing of this video has brought out thousands of comments and the dialogue is valuable and eye-opening.
First of all, let me say that I believe this was a horrible murder. I echo your opinion that this should go to trial quickly, and justice swiftly applied. Unfortunately, the top criminal gun in town, Andy Savage, has now been hired to defend Slager, so this will probably draw out in an excruciating fashion, under the guise of "everyone deserves a defense". This will only serve to exacerbate the hurt the family, the community, and nation, feel over this matter.
Secondly, I agree with you that race should not be the center of this story. In the video, there appears to be is a black officer who was there when what looked like a taser was dropped right by him. Have I missed something here? Why has that officer vanished from media view? In my humble opinion, this whole affair is more about the lack of human decency than racial divide.
Secondly, I agree with you that race should not be the center of this story. In the video, there appears to be is a black officer who was there when what looked like a taser was dropped right by him. Have I missed something here? Why has that officer vanished from media view? In my humble opinion, this whole affair is more about the lack of human decency than racial divide.
1
When I owned bars and we were cited by the police for some infraction and then they testified at court we used to call it "testilying"
19
Wow. That's a far cry from "Blue Bloods". I had no idea. Very sobering.
Install video camera on every uniform.
1. Police have so much authority over citizens, the cameras place responsibility as well on police when dealing with citizens. One will understand this sentence better if they have a bad experience (disrespectful and demeaning) with police. Such experience happens more likely to people of color and also those who are poor. With my immigrant asian brown skin, I had 1 bad experience out of 5 till now with police in liberal California. The 5 experiences yielded 3 traffic tickets. I say I have good experience and good impression of police even when I got tickets 2 times. I have no doubt this ratio is even worse for black people. Cameras make the police accountable to what they talk and unnecessary insults they throw at the citizens, and ultimately make the bad experiences to hopefully 0 or at least lower.
2. Police are also human. They make mistakes. Like most human beings when a mistake is done they will try to cover up if they can cover up. Video from the Uniform gives transparency to their actions and make it very difficult to cover things up. The stakes are very high when a shooting is involved. One should not trust the perpetrator of the crime to give complete account of the event !!. The video shows the truth.
3. Data show the training wear off with time, and will not be as effective as body cameras even when properly administered. Data from cities with body cameras: "use of force down more than 50% with no increase in crime rate"
1. Police have so much authority over citizens, the cameras place responsibility as well on police when dealing with citizens. One will understand this sentence better if they have a bad experience (disrespectful and demeaning) with police. Such experience happens more likely to people of color and also those who are poor. With my immigrant asian brown skin, I had 1 bad experience out of 5 till now with police in liberal California. The 5 experiences yielded 3 traffic tickets. I say I have good experience and good impression of police even when I got tickets 2 times. I have no doubt this ratio is even worse for black people. Cameras make the police accountable to what they talk and unnecessary insults they throw at the citizens, and ultimately make the bad experiences to hopefully 0 or at least lower.
2. Police are also human. They make mistakes. Like most human beings when a mistake is done they will try to cover up if they can cover up. Video from the Uniform gives transparency to their actions and make it very difficult to cover things up. The stakes are very high when a shooting is involved. One should not trust the perpetrator of the crime to give complete account of the event !!. The video shows the truth.
3. Data show the training wear off with time, and will not be as effective as body cameras even when properly administered. Data from cities with body cameras: "use of force down more than 50% with no increase in crime rate"
11
Video cameras will not change police behavior. Nor that of the perpetrators.
“Everyone in this business knows that cops have been given the benefit of the doubt,” said Hugh F. Keefe, a Connecticut lawyer who has defended several police officers accused of misconduct. “They’re always assumed to be telling the truth, unless there’s tangible evidence otherwise.”
________________
Really? Just because they're cops doesn't mean they're any more truthful than the average citizen. I don't buy this for one second.
________________
Really? Just because they're cops doesn't mean they're any more truthful than the average citizen. I don't buy this for one second.
17
He was describing reality, not stating his personal opinion.
Keefe isn't saying that cops ARE more truthful than average citizens. He's saying that when they're in court, judges and juries are more likely to believe a cop than an average citizen. He is addressing the widely-held (and probably mostly unconscious) presumption of truth cops enjoy, not attesting to cops' truthfulness.
Have you ever been the victim of an out of control policeman when you are completely innocent? I have and it can ruin your life in an instant. Police have far too much power to arbitrarily do literally anything to anyone at any time in the encounter. This is why cameras are absolutely necessary and should be required for every police officer to wear and not be able to disable. It will protect the good officers and weed out the bad.
How do laws that require consent before recording come into play here? I hate to drag in a fictional example, but there was an episode of "The Good Wife" in which the son got in trouble for phone-recording a confrontation with a cop. I seem to recall that the video may have been permitted, but not the audio, and that in some states the consent of both parties is required, while in others only one party need consent.
It would be appalling if citizen documentation of such an incident were inadmissible on legalistic grounds.
Given that the NSA and other governmental agencies have free rein to collect "data" on me, I should be able to surveil them right back. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? That's usually translated pithily as "who will watch the watchers?", but "custodes" are "guardians, watchmen, custodians", so it really means more like "who will guard us from the guardians"?
It would be appalling if citizen documentation of such an incident were inadmissible on legalistic grounds.
Given that the NSA and other governmental agencies have free rein to collect "data" on me, I should be able to surveil them right back. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? That's usually translated pithily as "who will watch the watchers?", but "custodes" are "guardians, watchmen, custodians", so it really means more like "who will guard us from the guardians"?
8
Laws vary from state to state of course but in this instance they are outside in a public place and the cop is a civil servant on the job. Unlikely to cause legal problems. Taping within a room might be another matter altogether.
4
Ask Rand Paul! If he's a true Libertarian, this would be one of his priorities.
A telephone conversation is private. Some states require the consent of both parties to a conversation for it to be legally recorded. Others require only the consent of one party (which means that a third party can tape a conversation with the consent of only one of the parties). If you are standing outside in the open, then someone who photographs or visually records you doesn't normally need your consent. Some of this is just the result of existing laws, but also, notions on the expectation of privacy. Police who are arresting or chasing suspected criminals have no expectation of privacy. Their conduct is inherently public, they act in the name of and for the benefit of the public. There may be issues of authenticity or accuracy in recordings, which might make them inadmissible on different grounds, but it's highly doubtful they would be excluded because they were a violation of someone's fourth amendment right against search or seizure (the usual grounds for excluding video evidence, for instance, a recording that was made in someone's home).
I am aware that there are "good cops" out there. However, I worked in the ER in the 80's and was disgusted by the cops who brought in people who they had "roughed up". One was a middle class young white girl, obviously drunk, but I couldn't see any reason they had to beat up a 120 pound girl! Another more shocking time a black male was brought in who they had beaten with a board with nails sticking out of it! I am sure they had their reasons but it sickened me.
13
Today's police are more Call of Duty trigger-happy than rough-em-up like Baretta 1970s style. Different and more dangerous in my opinion.
While cameras will aid, we must always remember they can not show everything.
4
It's scary how eager some are to volunteer for a surveillance state. Eventually there's going to be a case where the body camera did not function, or there is an accusation of tampering. Then we'll hear that there should be government cameras fixed everywhere, so as to take control of them away from individual cops. What's after that? Body cameras on every citizen?
1
With cops acting this violently (yes, 1 out of 100,000 police encounters resulting in death is way too much compared to most other societies), there is little choice. Either completely overhaul the system to get rid of the violent and dangerous types that become cops and replace them with a different profile of people or some conscription system, or something else, or just start videotaping them and hope that at least slows down the rate of murder by police. IMHO, anyway.
if every officer wears a camera, the chances are they will not all malfunction at once. If this is the case, it certainly looks suspicious. So you think only citizens are the ones that should be recorded? If you have nothing to hide....
Don't count on Mr. Slager being convicted of murder. In a Police State citizens are terrified of the consequences of finding an officer guilty. Police do seek revenge precisely because they know that to continue behaving as they do, the citizenry must be aware that holding police accountable for their crimes they will be punished.
7
Good rule of thumb: If you would be horrified to have a video recording of your public behavior appear on the front page of the NYT, then your behavior is probably horrific. Don't behave horrifically.
10
Why are so many in law enforcement not suited to be in law enforcement? There are clearly a sizeable number of police and correctional workers in the US today who in NO WAY fit the psychological profile required to do those jobs with ethics or self-control. Psychologically test every one of them and see just how many cannot control themselves. Those important jobs are not for just anyone in fact most of us could not do those jobs well. Why are we not fixing this? Is this just one more Jim Crow legacy that whites want to quietly let stand?
19
Many police are upstanding and doing the job because they want to "serve and protect, " but others are those school yard bullies or the ones who were bullied who now have an official way to continue the bullying or get back at society.
It's a power trip. You can find these types on co-op/condo boards but they don't have a gun or arrest you. However, their power trips can still mess up your lives in other ways. Yes, there needs to be better screening and also increase in compensation to attract better candidates.
It's a power trip. You can find these types on co-op/condo boards but they don't have a gun or arrest you. However, their power trips can still mess up your lives in other ways. Yes, there needs to be better screening and also increase in compensation to attract better candidates.
Because hiring and promotion have been tweaked by activist courts for 30 years now. At one time it either character, being able to handle a fistfight +/or being related to someone on the force. Now it's what preferred category you're in.
Go try to get hired at a big city PD and see how far you get without either some type of minority status or knowing someone in the department.
Go try to get hired at a big city PD and see how far you get without either some type of minority status or knowing someone in the department.
Does this mean that all citizens will need to start packing heat to protect themselves from the police?
3
It seems to me that what prompts bad behavior and hiding by police is fear. How did entire police forces become afraid of the people they are meant to serve and protect? Which came first, militarization or fear?
7
The officer in this incident was clearly not afraid of anything. No this shooting was prompted by something other than fear. That something includes a basic disregard for human life.
How long will this country try to deny its racism? This is at least the second clear cut murder of an unarmed black man we have witnessed this year alone, the other being In NYC .
In the latter case, a Staten Island grand Jury apparently couldn't distinguish several police beating and choking a man who was selling cigarettes illegally even though even though half the people on the planet watching the same video could. Apparently, seeing is not believing. Kind of understandable if you know S.I. but really sickening given that its been swept away.
It will be interesting to see if this episode can also be "whitewashed". After all, the black man is running away, and the police officer fears for his life.I suppose he could say he was afraid the guy was running home to get a weapon.
As long as most of Americans remain in denial of our racist attitudes these episodes are going to continue. Its a very sad but very true fact.
In the latter case, a Staten Island grand Jury apparently couldn't distinguish several police beating and choking a man who was selling cigarettes illegally even though even though half the people on the planet watching the same video could. Apparently, seeing is not believing. Kind of understandable if you know S.I. but really sickening given that its been swept away.
It will be interesting to see if this episode can also be "whitewashed". After all, the black man is running away, and the police officer fears for his life.I suppose he could say he was afraid the guy was running home to get a weapon.
As long as most of Americans remain in denial of our racist attitudes these episodes are going to continue. Its a very sad but very true fact.
17
"It will be interesting to see if this episode can also be "whitewashed"."
The cop already has murder charges pending. In the court of public opinion he's already guilty, and a court of law will probably concur.
The cop already has murder charges pending. In the court of public opinion he's already guilty, and a court of law will probably concur.
My heart bleeds.
A human being, created equal, endowed with certain unalienable rights, among which are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, was coldly, brutally, violently and deliberately robbed of his unalienable right to life.
Those who commit such murder are evil. Equally guilty are those who presume to defend such inhumanity. They are the reason this evil continues to flourish.
A human being, created equal, endowed with certain unalienable rights, among which are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, was coldly, brutally, violently and deliberately robbed of his unalienable right to life.
Those who commit such murder are evil. Equally guilty are those who presume to defend such inhumanity. They are the reason this evil continues to flourish.
5
It's time: mandatory cameras in police vehicles and worn by policemen. Yes, adds cost to local budgets. That cost is less than the lives being taken, families devastated, trust between cops and community torn down.
4
The costs are going to be recuperated by weeding out the bad apples so this kind of thing becomes a truly rare occurrence. Right now NYC puts aside millions of dollars to settle suits they lose in court because of bad police behavior. This cost should be considered as well
Its about time we force these criminal cops , to adhere to the laws they helped create. Why are they always above the law. My fear of law enforcement is a thousand times greater than the so called non-violent criminal in the street. We have evolved into a east german stasi playbook, of total fear of repressive law enforcement. The few times I have been involved in a legal proceeding, I have zero faith in a just outcome. There are two sets of laws here. One to brutalize the poor, middle class and weak, and one for the elites that are above their laws and ride shotgun over all our liberties and freedoms.
11
This is a terrifying video. It shows a cold blooded cop calmly shooting a fleeing suspect in the back. I wanted to shout at the officer "Stop shooting!!" And I also wanted to scream at the suspect "Stop running!!." A loud call for body cameras. A very sad story all around.
5
Abuse of power is new and is not confined to police departments. It is a human trait passed down over the centuries (remember last week was Good Friday). People are quick to affix blame as to why people do these things but, in my opinion, the answer is as simple as, "They didn't have your parents." Most of the problems in today's society (inequality, bigotry, etc.) result from parents who are not committed to raising their children to adulthood. They have shirked their responsibility and this is the result.
What I am wondering is why if the cop was charged with murder he hasn't been arrested and put in jail to await a hearing for bail. It is good he has been fired with a loss of all benefits except for his wife who is pregnant. I think that is very compassionate on the side of the government. However, for most anyone else firing would mean the loss of benefits for all his family immediately.
Still all seems like special treatment for a different class of citizens.
Still all seems like special treatment for a different class of citizens.
2
He was arrested and in jail. If he is out, it is because he posted bond.
I believe he has been arrested. He was in prison clothes before a judge, also could not make bail at that time.
If the cops weren't the cops they would be the criminals.
So many of the cops in the Bay Area shave their heads, they think they are marines. We need them to be counsellors, not warriors.
So many of the cops in the Bay Area shave their heads, they think they are marines. We need them to be counsellors, not warriors.
11
Truth, essential for justice, comes with evidence. Whoever resists the device that aids transparency and finding the truth must believe that not having the device benefits himself but not necessarily finding the truth and, then, having justice.
Conclusion: Body camero is a must.
Conclusion: Body camero is a must.
3
“I don’t believe the officer would have behaved the way he did had he been wearing a body camera,” So you are saying these Cops are walking around with Murder in their Hearts,and the only thing holding back their Hate is the wearing of Body Cams?
Its a disgusting thought, but one that is probably true in some instances. What a terrible state this "Great Nation" has reached. What am I saying? Its always been that way. Thank goodness Technology can call out some of these Animals.
Its a disgusting thought, but one that is probably true in some instances. What a terrible state this "Great Nation" has reached. What am I saying? Its always been that way. Thank goodness Technology can call out some of these Animals.
10
When it is in their perceived self-interest to lie, far more police will lie than will tell the truth. Judicial authorities will usually pretend to believe them, and an officer will never suffer the consequences that an ordinary citizen would when committing perjury.
Only a jury will occasionally be willing to call it as it is.
I speak from the perspective of a defense attorney, now retired.
Only a jury will occasionally be willing to call it as it is.
I speak from the perspective of a defense attorney, now retired.
20
We have a gun-obsessed society. So, it shouldn't be a surprise (to police!) that a 12 year old would be playing with a toy gun. Then, the only tactic the police have in their keep-the-peace bag of tricks is to shoot him. Sadly, there are no surprises here.
9
While I agree with you that our insane gun culture absolves the police in the sad case of the 12 year old, it has nothing to do with shooting an unarmed man running away in the back.
Then why do the gun-control folk exempt the PD --every time-- they write a gun control law?
PS - And lets not Forget to thank Mr. Santana. He took the Video and when finding that Police were going to stick with "Officer" Slager's version ,turned over the Video evidence.
The second I saw the Video I thought "Mr Santana is a REAL Hero". Make no mistake - He was also in great Personal Danger taking the Video & in turning it over.
The second I saw the Video I thought "Mr Santana is a REAL Hero". Make no mistake - He was also in great Personal Danger taking the Video & in turning it over.
42
Teach your children today how to respond to a police stop and not give them a glimmer of an excuse to kill you.
That dissing a cop inadvertently can get you the death penalty.
Repeat this lesson regularly.
That dissing a cop inadvertently can get you the death penalty.
Repeat this lesson regularly.
3
While video sounds like a good idea, it could open up an entirely new bag of worms. We should remember that the reality of many of our jobs differs, often greatly, from the politically correct version our society would have us aspire to. Video would not necessarily be a problem if our society was not overly litigious, but it is, and I bet a lot of good police work would not play well on television.
What I really can't believe is that there is no federal law forcing state and local police to document and explain their use of lethal force. We need to have comprehensive data so that we can better understand what we are witnessing. That's where we should start.
What I really can't believe is that there is no federal law forcing state and local police to document and explain their use of lethal force. We need to have comprehensive data so that we can better understand what we are witnessing. That's where we should start.
4
Sausage making "wouldn't play well" on tv either, but don't you want to know if there is rat in it?
Police officers do lie a lot. Cameras are the way to go. I am not sure why there aren't signs at the police precincts that warn or advise officers that any actions they may take are being videoed. Everyone with a phone has the ability to record events they see.
8
All brutality and cruelty of this despicable act aside, what strikes me is what utterly bad shots these cops are--remember those DC and NYC cops who MISSED their suspect and actually hit bystanders? And how many times did cops fire in Ferguson and in this case?
It is equally shocking to me that no one seems to be using these examples to argue against the NRAs assertion that we all need to be armed to protect ourselves. I mean, if highly trained law enforcement can't shoot straight in highly-charged life-or-death situations--and NOT hit innocent bystanders!--then what chance do I have?
It is equally shocking to me that no one seems to be using these examples to argue against the NRAs assertion that we all need to be armed to protect ourselves. I mean, if highly trained law enforcement can't shoot straight in highly-charged life-or-death situations--and NOT hit innocent bystanders!--then what chance do I have?
8
This is why the jury believed that Mark Fuhrman planted OJ's glove and DNA.
5
Good point. You're probably right.
The question isn't whether video can lie, but whether it lies a lot less and can expose more lies. The presence of cameras can lead to fairer results and better behavior by everyone, not just the police. People are people, whatever their profession or lot in life and sometimes they behave badly and/or lie. If it's affordable, by all means, that's what should be done. Taping FBI interviews is a great idea. It would be beneficial if all police and similar interviews could be taped as it is generally far more reliable than notes and memory. Frankly, if would be better if every courtroom could be videotaped too, though that isn't likely anytime soon. It is true, of course, that video does not always tell the whole story. We can only see the area the camera catches and can't see what happened before or after, or other events that film cannot pick up (perhaps whispering, eye movements, sweating, subtle movements, trembling) and it doesn't tell you a person's history or character either. And of course, it has to be authenticated. But, all non-testimonial proof, like fingerprints, dna, audio tapes, photos, has limitations and can be challenged for a number of reasons. It's still better to have it.
7
All good citizens should have their phone videos on the ready. For years police- officers have been handed 007 license to kill authority. If they checked the right boxes on the police report, they were most likely exonerated. They followed procedures; feared for their life; and "Chicago" the Musical style; he reached for the gun. Claims attempted by this officer, before the video emerged.
10
This issue of police brutality should be set aside for a moment. That topic actually offers some sort of excuse for what has happened here, a cold blooded murder. This wasn't race, nor was it excessive force. Execution is more like it. In the frontier west of the early 1800's, shooting a man in the back might get the shooter killed by lawmen! That's the wild west 200 years ago. A trained policer officer? I don't care how many non-violent brushes with the law the homicide victim had, the way he he would leave this world, scared, alone, dying, being screamed at to put his hands behind his back. It's infuriating and so deeply sad. That's a fellow human being!
11
Why does the New York Times think the debate had ceased? And, what debate?? And what about all this talk about poor training??? This isn't about poor training. It's about racism.
11
When the US far right takes over in 2017 the first thing to go will be citizen cameras.
6
Your bias is showing. Left wing governments are every bit as much distrustful of and oppressive to citizens as right wing governments. Is not Obama spying on us as much or more than Bush did? Has Obama diminished police powers any from those under Bush?
The hardest part is to step back far enough to see this not as 'police tactics' or 'culture' --- matters addressable by rules and exhortation --- but as the cutting edge of the perpetual class war that structures the country.
11
All anyone has to do is spend a few minutes on a "cops only" chat forum to see how they, and I mean all of them, really feel. These are not good people, by and large, no matter what they'd like you and their families to think.
And to my "good" cop friends - start focussing on your own for a change, and you'll stop being tarred, so to say, with this same brush. I'm frankly tired of hearing how "the vast majority of cops are good people." That's a claim that is seriously beginning to ring hollow.
It's time that the police in this country took some responsibility for their own, terrible, reputation.
And to my "good" cop friends - start focussing on your own for a change, and you'll stop being tarred, so to say, with this same brush. I'm frankly tired of hearing how "the vast majority of cops are good people." That's a claim that is seriously beginning to ring hollow.
It's time that the police in this country took some responsibility for their own, terrible, reputation.
45
Judge's support any police because they represent the law, the problem is when the individual separate from the law an no longer is a cop, just like any other man because can't control he's emotions.
8
You cannot record a man's fear or his anger or his preconceived notions. It amazes me that so many uniformed members of our society are allowed to carry firearms in public places under the guise of keeping the peace. I know that we need people with absolute force to control crime and keep us safe, but these recent examples of abuse must inform us that not all men are equal on either side of the law.
I think the right thing to do is for all policing officers at any level public or private, be required to carry recording devices along with their weapons. Up to now, too much has been left to post incident reporting by the involved officers.
We know that weak men lie and memories can be faulty, so let's stop relying on them to tell us the truth of a matter. All law enforcers need to be required to wear a body camera, and it needs to be operating whenever an incident like this occurs.
I think the right thing to do is for all policing officers at any level public or private, be required to carry recording devices along with their weapons. Up to now, too much has been left to post incident reporting by the involved officers.
We know that weak men lie and memories can be faulty, so let's stop relying on them to tell us the truth of a matter. All law enforcers need to be required to wear a body camera, and it needs to be operating whenever an incident like this occurs.
6
I would add one more thing to your list. And that is to tell the citizens to never run away from an officer because it could be misconstrued for a criminal act and get them shot.
If it isn't then the level of belief should be justifiably lower. Yes that may mean a few crooks get off but we are reading almost daily now of innocent men and women being set free from prison after having their case overturn, 10, 20 or 30 years later and some even being sentenced to death because in part of corrupt police or biased prosecutors looking to make a name or get someone for that crime.
No video now should mean we don;t quite believe you, especially if more than one camera is non functioning. Not an accident deliberate.
No video now should mean we don;t quite believe you, especially if more than one camera is non functioning. Not an accident deliberate.
It might not be a bad idea to require anyone who carries a gun to wear a body camera - although the NRA would never allow it.
The tragedy is the loss of life and a decision that cannot be undone all caught on video. The grief a family has to suffer because of one person's decision who is a police officer who took the law into his own hands.
9
Defense and Homeland Defense departartments in the Federal government are complicit in building the current police attitudes in America.
Arming police across the nation with tanks (Waterbury Ct), machine guns (NYC), sniper rifles, combat uniforms, armored vehicles with sniper sites on top (last 3 all St Louis County) has given police the idea that they work in something close to Syria and that any citizen may be an ISIS terrorist.
The police now belive they are, can be and should be "warrior-heros". They are not! They are PUBLIC SERVANTS paid to protect ordinary citizens. They do not have a license to kill.
Arming police across the nation with tanks (Waterbury Ct), machine guns (NYC), sniper rifles, combat uniforms, armored vehicles with sniper sites on top (last 3 all St Louis County) has given police the idea that they work in something close to Syria and that any citizen may be an ISIS terrorist.
The police now belive they are, can be and should be "warrior-heros". They are not! They are PUBLIC SERVANTS paid to protect ordinary citizens. They do not have a license to kill.
45
It is a mistake to assume that cops are always lying, but it is also a mistake for our system to operate on the assumption that cops are always being truthful. For example, if a cop stops a driver for speeding or cell phone usage, that driver has no hope of winning a hearing; when it's his word against the cop's, the assumption is that the cop is telling the truth. As recent events have shown, that is far from a safe assumption.
Cops should be required to wear cameras not only to record interactions after an event occurs, but also to record the incidents themselves. Otherwise, all cameras will do is encourage cops to behave appropriately once they have initiated an interaction, and not to be completely objective when inviting that interaction. In the aforementioned example, a cop should be required to have recorded the driving infraction before stopping the driver. Sure, the cop may act professionally once he has the driver pulled over, but who's to say that he should have pulled the driver over in the first place?
Cops should be required to wear cameras not only to record interactions after an event occurs, but also to record the incidents themselves. Otherwise, all cameras will do is encourage cops to behave appropriately once they have initiated an interaction, and not to be completely objective when inviting that interaction. In the aforementioned example, a cop should be required to have recorded the driving infraction before stopping the driver. Sure, the cop may act professionally once he has the driver pulled over, but who's to say that he should have pulled the driver over in the first place?
17
One time several years back I was stopped by a cop for "driving aggressively". (that's what he said). He never even showed up when I went to court. He was probably just getting his quota for the month.....
I believe that the job of a police officer is to serve and protect the law. It is not to verbally abuse, intimidate or suppress the people. I think if we can lose couple of trillions in foreign wars, that we can use some billions in using personal cameras in every single police officer. The cameras would protect the police and the civilians.
12
Cameras are a step but the way policing is done in America needs to be radically improved.
1
The police cars in my bucolic semi rural community have dark tinted windows. I find these windows to throw fear into me and I'm an older white woman. What do small children think of these dark hulking masses gliding by without a human to be seen.
20
People should be more concern about why justice system allows criminals on to streets after serving short time in jail. If justice system can afford to keep dangerous people in jail they should kind solution which would keep them off streets. First solution is to export these criminals to serve time in china jail.It would be a lot cheaper an productive as deterent .China needs work an probley wont allow them on to streets
That was a callous, mean "murder", through the car license plate, Scott was
plainly identified, which means, sooner or later he could have been arrested,
without "murdering" him.
Question:
Would the policeman Michael Slater, have murdered the suspect, as he did with Scott, if he was White.? I doubt it.!!!
Blacks are free "hunting game", for the the trigger happiest police force in
the world, amongst Industrialized Nations, in addition to it, there is a mythos
of Untouchability of the Police Force, in the United States, everytime a person, overwhelmingly, Blacks or Latinos are murdered, without justification.
And the federal government, does absolutely nothing, to end this continuous, and unjustified killings.!!
115 persons were killed by police forces, throughout the United States in the
year 2014, the great majority, inside doubtful, and unjustified circumstances.!!
plainly identified, which means, sooner or later he could have been arrested,
without "murdering" him.
Question:
Would the policeman Michael Slater, have murdered the suspect, as he did with Scott, if he was White.? I doubt it.!!!
Blacks are free "hunting game", for the the trigger happiest police force in
the world, amongst Industrialized Nations, in addition to it, there is a mythos
of Untouchability of the Police Force, in the United States, everytime a person, overwhelmingly, Blacks or Latinos are murdered, without justification.
And the federal government, does absolutely nothing, to end this continuous, and unjustified killings.!!
115 persons were killed by police forces, throughout the United States in the
year 2014, the great majority, inside doubtful, and unjustified circumstances.!!
15
It should be enough to enrage us that these actions occur regardless of the race or ethnicity of the people involved. Why is it a bigger headline if the one who is shot is black? There should be no tolerance of this behavior no matter who is involved. Then, no officer will feel that he can somehow justify such evil.
7
In answer to your question I say.....YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS! How many white people have been gunned down by cops like this man was???????
This was murder plain and simple and Scott should serve either life in prison or be put to death. But let's not demonize all police officers. My dad was a cop and never witnessed anything like this in his life. 1/3 of the department (and his partner) was African American and shootings were extremely rare. Walter Scott is a murderer. That does not mean that all cops and all white people are racists.
9
Walter Scott is not a murderer! He was shot in the back after a traffic stop that never should have occurred. Walter Scott is dead. I hope the moderators of this thread take down your slanderous comment ASAP, and I hope you will engage your brain before you submit another comment..
Reality chek we haven't seen anything yet. Just tip of ice berg our personal freedoms are in jeperdy here either we live in world of total police state with no freedoms or we choose to stop crime now.Personlly I believe too late for our kids criminals ruining our country only solution is to export all criminals to china let them sort out who,s going to live
"... Scott should serve either life in prison or be put to death."
Mr. Scott is already dead. Please try to pay attention while reading the news.
Mr. Scott is already dead. Please try to pay attention while reading the news.
It is self-evident that many of our small police departments lack the professionalism citizens deserve. Smaller communities generally lack the resources to responsibly run a police department.
Policing, with the exception of our largest cities, should be a state function. Nothing radical here -- in Germany policing is mostly a state responsibility, the exception being borders and airports, which are federal. German policing is uniformly very good. And being German, a very efficient service.
Policing, with the exception of our largest cities, should be a state function. Nothing radical here -- in Germany policing is mostly a state responsibility, the exception being borders and airports, which are federal. German policing is uniformly very good. And being German, a very efficient service.
16
Having grown up in New York City and having been present at several police riots there I can assure you that big city departments are not necessarily bastions of professionalism. And then there are the recent revelations about the Chicago police' own center to disappear & torture prisoners, & the LAPD's brutality against the homeless. So that accounts for 3 of the largest police departments in the country. Case closed.
This is a very sad moment. It seems to me that something is not quite right about the training and teaching in the system. I hope we will fix it with support from everyone
10
Perhaps part of the training was, if people fail to comply is a potential criminal cut be any one.
Yes, the cold-blooded murder of a human being is a sad moment isn't it?
3
Or is the selection process flawed and nt enough done to identify the unseen non public bias or racist attitudes of the small proportion of police who are flawed and should never have a gun and a role in policing.
1
Is there an institution left that operates with integrity and honor?
What is catching up with us is the result of our nation's character being bombarded by the liberal excuse makers deceits to mask their dishonesty. Deceits that go unchallenged by the enabling Media.
Don't you think anybody was listening . . . learning?
- it depends on what your definition of "is" is
Think your adversary in court now feels constrained by the truth?
- you can keep your doctor
- he hasn't paid taxes in 10 years
The standard barrier of the lie is the liberal. Truth just gets in the way sometimes. The sophisticated Enlightened liberal can't be bothered with such plebeian and outdated concepts.
And the fallout is felt the most by the lemming supporters.
What is catching up with us is the result of our nation's character being bombarded by the liberal excuse makers deceits to mask their dishonesty. Deceits that go unchallenged by the enabling Media.
Don't you think anybody was listening . . . learning?
- it depends on what your definition of "is" is
Think your adversary in court now feels constrained by the truth?
- you can keep your doctor
- he hasn't paid taxes in 10 years
The standard barrier of the lie is the liberal. Truth just gets in the way sometimes. The sophisticated Enlightened liberal can't be bothered with such plebeian and outdated concepts.
And the fallout is felt the most by the lemming supporters.
4
Are you really blaming liberals for the lack of control shown by conservative authorities? This police brutality is something we liberals have been saying is happening for...well, for most of our history, especially to people of color. And now that there's proof...it's *our* fault. Incredible.
15
Did you even read the article? What did liberal media have to do with being video taped? In other words what happened should no have been reported. Talk about being biased. A man died. Enough said.
15
Try to stay on topic, Bob. We know your thoughts on this are very important, to you.
5
In 2011 American police justifiably shot dead at least 404 people. Over the same period Australian police killed six people, German police killed six and English and Welsh killed two. In the UK, police have killed 52 people since.......1900.
The gun culture has infected America, and it looks like there is no cure. Any reaction from the NRA to this latest police shooting?
The gun culture has infected America, and it looks like there is no cure. Any reaction from the NRA to this latest police shooting?
59
Why should there be? The officer was a sworn peace officer and empowered to carry a firearm. It's a police training issue not a Second Amendment issue.
1
The NRA has nothing to do with the cold blooded murder of an unarmed man by a police officer. I am afraid that the police here in the US will not be giving up their guns anytime soon.
1
NRA will review the video, ponder why the cop who murdered Walter Scott missed so many times from such a short distance and suggest that America's cops have to shoot straighter, especially now that there might be a national incentive to put a camera on every cop in America.
2
It is time to stop calling all cops "heroes" and "first defenders" and other euphemisms that somehow signify that they are above us. It is time to start calling cops by what they are: public servants, hired by a local government that we elected, to uphold the law... and measure them against that standard.
56
Yes, but it has also come out that those same local governments are using the police via the fines and court judgements as a revenue raising activity. That really isn't policing if it wasn't the local government it would extortion as the Mafia used to do. The rot is not restricted to the police where you could say recruitment and selection of police officers is not what it should be but they also receive tacit approval or encouragement from the local government.
As a white American, it sickens me to read about police shooting people for such trivial errors or minor misbehavior. The idea that "police huddlem goons" are prevalent and predatory, is alarming. Sadder yet, I see no end to this police behavior! American govenment has gone mad, and its going to get worse.
24
It is time to revisit the Eric Garner strangling death and the video tape. We must examine the tape for evidence that the police action was justified. The prosecutor involved should be held responsible for failing to represent the deceased if Mr. Garner's death was unjustified.
If the Garner tape is not sufficient evidence to indict we must change the criteria.
Walter Scott's murder is a stark example of what is meant by a police report that states that a policeman acted "in fear for his life". Michael Brown's killer shot him 6 times. The opportunity to wait for backup, or apprehend Brown later should have been integral in deciding to indict. They were not. Why was deadly force used against an unarmed teenager? The officer was afraid? Did he use alternatives? Why not? Was he afraid that the teen would kill him or afraid that he would be labeled a coward if he backed down.
If the Garner tape is not sufficient evidence to indict we must change the criteria.
Walter Scott's murder is a stark example of what is meant by a police report that states that a policeman acted "in fear for his life". Michael Brown's killer shot him 6 times. The opportunity to wait for backup, or apprehend Brown later should have been integral in deciding to indict. They were not. Why was deadly force used against an unarmed teenager? The officer was afraid? Did he use alternatives? Why not? Was he afraid that the teen would kill him or afraid that he would be labeled a coward if he backed down.
22
There was a time, not so long ago, when if a cop (or even a cop wannabe, in George Zimmerman's case) played the "I felt threatened", card, enough people believed him that he would be exonerated for killing someone. Those who disbelieved the cop would be called divisive, racist, troublemakers. Then there would be a long sermon in which everyone would have to pay homage to the nobility and self-sacrifice of the police.
Will this event call into question the stories of other cops who kill people? Will this finally show that cops (like other people) lie to cover up their crimes? Will this event finally drive away the "I felt threatened excuse"? Probably not. But we gotta hope.
Will this event call into question the stories of other cops who kill people? Will this finally show that cops (like other people) lie to cover up their crimes? Will this event finally drive away the "I felt threatened excuse"? Probably not. But we gotta hope.
37
I agree, but it's not "there was a time", it's happening now and it's disgusting. The police have found the magic words....and this kind of behavior will not stop until we change the blind acceptance of that phrase
8
Maybe we can get a video cam in Officer Slager's prison cell, where he will hopefully spend the rest of his life in penance for this cold-blooded murder that he clearly tried to cover up. The guy showed not a scintilla of compassion. He treated the victim as sub-human as the post-shooting video reveals. Thank goodness for some justice at last. Reports said he looked nervous at his arraignment. Far better than the smug detachment we would likely have witnessed if there were no video evidence against him!
22
The band aids are being used to fix this social problem that is a product of our history. It is not just a sore spot for blacks, although they have the heaviest receiving end of discrimination, but for all marginalized groupings of people. It is the ghettos. We have created enclaves of differentness. It is past time to break down these walls and welcome all comers into each other's community. When we live within our own perspective, and do not bump up against phenotypical and cultural differences, false conclusions on both sides abound. The only way out of this is to abandon sectors of unevenness. It would not even hurt to have more mixed income living spaces of all income levels. For too long we have lived together by living apart. Unless we change that basic thorn in our side, we live much less than comfortable lives.
12
This is NOT about tactics, it is about a murderous subculture in law enforcement and why it exists throughout this country. It is also about why the news media—like the New York Times—may be considered an accessory after the fact when it under reports, or even fails to report, the wrongdoings of the institutions in this country and throughout the world that are supposed to serve and protect rather than harm us.
22
The fact that this policeman was arrested and charged with murder does offer a slight sense that right has prevailed. However, the problem with this solution is that it is an arbitrary one; and it remains completely in the hands of the people who are likely to be tempted to cover up wrongdoing.
Any time a police officer kills someone, a state or federal inquiry free of all local influence should occur, and the policeman should be relieved from duty until that inquiry reaches its conclusion.
In this case, video cameras revealed the level of deception that police departments may practice. A one-off, local prosecution does not alter that proclivity or even mitigate it.
Any time a police officer kills someone, a state or federal inquiry free of all local influence should occur, and the policeman should be relieved from duty until that inquiry reaches its conclusion.
In this case, video cameras revealed the level of deception that police departments may practice. A one-off, local prosecution does not alter that proclivity or even mitigate it.
12
He was only arrested because of the public release of the video footage. What do you think would have happened without that footage?
And while this was a horrific murder for which the cop should get life or the death penalty, let's don't have everyone making the victim a saint. He didn't pay child support for his kids but drove his mercedes. He had 10 arrests. He did not deserve to die for this, but it makes the bigots mad when people take a victim who has flaws and tries to make him perfect. The bottom line is that the cop killed the guy for no reason. It's on film. No issues or doubts. And white people do not want brutal cops running around with guns. This could have been a white victim, a black victim, an hispanic, etc.
6
I think you are right on with your observations that this could be anyone and we should not have our police forces acting in this manner. ....but who is making the victim out to be a saint? If you don't think this person should have died just because he missed payment on his child support, why bring it up? Why bring up his past arrest record? You seem to want to justify his death by doing so. ...
2
I hadn't heard anyone making the victim out as anything but a fleeing man.
The victim's failure to pay child support has zero relationship to the cop's behavior.
This is the South. We don't put up with dirty cops. It's just that we have to prove they are dirty. The video shows this cop is dirty. So he was arrested and fired. He''ll be prosecuted and will go to jail. North Charleston is right by Charleston, the city which hired a black police chief many years ago. (60 minutes profiled him) I don't understand why there were demonstrations in N. Charleston since the police chief and mayor did the right thing. We don't put up with bad cops in our coastal southern cities like this. White or black. That cop is a murderer and liar and it's on film, so it's not a disputable situation. This is why I like the NYC streets where every business it seems has a video camera watching everyone.
4
"This is the South. We don't put up with dirty cops. "
The history of the South--right up til recently--would suggest otherwise. I was tempted to see your statement as sarcasm.
The history of the South--right up til recently--would suggest otherwise. I was tempted to see your statement as sarcasm.
5
"This is the South. We don't put up with dirty cops."
Hahahahahahahahahaha!! Oh man, that's rich. Thanks for that early-morning comedy break.
Hahahahahahahahahaha!! Oh man, that's rich. Thanks for that early-morning comedy break.
1
The police chief did the right thing once there was video evidence to show exactly what it happened. If that evidence didn't exist would he have done the right thing?
2
The GOP led statehouses in more than one state are working or have passed legislation to make it a crime to record the activities of the police. Let that settle in, a crime. The kid who bravely took this video would be charged with a crime. Then ask yourselves what the these legislaturers are trying protect.
36
The fundamental fault lies with our law makers. Police are trained to shoot to kill. They are provided with military like arms as if they are on the streets confronting not fellow citizens but the enemy. They should pass a law that it is illegal to shoot to kill. At the worst they should aim for the hand or leg to disable the offender.
The nation wakes up in protests in very few and only severe cases. Discrimination against Blacks is going on in hundreds of cases each and every day. Not only are laws staked up against Blacks many police officers are recruited who are already prejudiced against Blacks.
A whole lot of reform is needed from upbringing, education, race relationships and police training.
The nation wakes up in protests in very few and only severe cases. Discrimination against Blacks is going on in hundreds of cases each and every day. Not only are laws staked up against Blacks many police officers are recruited who are already prejudiced against Blacks.
A whole lot of reform is needed from upbringing, education, race relationships and police training.
7
Ignorant statement in regard to "shoot to kill."
The cold blooded murder of Walter Scott not only laid down the image of United States all over the world, but also raised the question that whether the Americans are the civilized citizens or are the same backward people like Afghanis. It's again feared that this case will also die down like others and no any drastic step will be taken to prevent the police brutality.
There is no doubt that the whole battalion of police in North and South Carolina are racists, supremacists and have no fear of God in their hearts, so it has become a paramount necessity to screen the whole forces and let go all the officers who are found possessing any offensive behavior towards common citizens. Until then, it should be mandatory for all the police officers in the United States to wear the body cameras. Just to trust the police's version of a story has become like living in the fool's paradise.
There is no doubt that the whole battalion of police in North and South Carolina are racists, supremacists and have no fear of God in their hearts, so it has become a paramount necessity to screen the whole forces and let go all the officers who are found possessing any offensive behavior towards common citizens. Until then, it should be mandatory for all the police officers in the United States to wear the body cameras. Just to trust the police's version of a story has become like living in the fool's paradise.
17
Yes lets label all because of the actions of individuals. Isn't that what many are doing to all Muslims because of the actions of some? The guy has been arrested for murder. The chance of it dying down is remote. Though news will be light until the trial starts. Most cops don't do this as most Muslims aren't terrorists or most Irish drunks and most Italians criminals.
1
It is time to remove the police from our neighborshoods. It is clear from this story and the others referenced in this article that the notion of community policing has clearly failed. It is time to consider a nationalized security force for our communities.
4
THe only community they were policing are minority and in that are more in line with occupation and control rather than serve and protect
6
Please, haven't heard of all the latest mess-ups by the Secret Service and FBI? Aren't they nationalized security? Local control works best. You want politics at the national level overseeing local security? I think not.
4
Right Jim, just look how well local control over policing works. You are reading the same articles, right? Are you one of those that think bigots should be allowed to run their own little towns and collect their revenues from whomever they want to steal them from?
You folks need to get over this particular fantasy you have about "local control." That is just a euphemism you political leaders on the right use for "enshrined racism and poverty."
You folks need to get over this particular fantasy you have about "local control." That is just a euphemism you political leaders on the right use for "enshrined racism and poverty."
1
I think your headline for this article says it all: "reignites" suggests that the debate went away. Perhaps from the headlines, not from the minds of those affected or the millions of others who are reminded of this kind of behavior everyday.
11
News Flash: Police Officers lie. It sickens me ( I am no Liberal) that the justice system constantly takes the word of these overpaid government workers as gospel time and again.
15
Bad cops yes, but not all. And they should be punished swiftly and harshly. many times its more than the cops who do bad that is the problem its the locals who oversee them that cover it up. Those locals are usually elected by us. Over paid? YOU go out and put your life on the line for what they get. Read the papers as to cops getting killed while working?
1
Really? A blue wall of silence, exists. The blue code and blue shield, are terms used in the United States to denote the unwritten rule that exists among police officers not to report on a colleague's errors, misconducts, or crimes.
BTW Jim where and how are you employed?
BTW Jim where and how are you employed?
This is beyond the pale: it is not a video game; not a fiction with actors and filming crew waiting "cut!" from the director; this is real life video showing a man being killed on households' global news. I wonder to what extent everything to attract as many TV viewers competing with the Internet will go. I guess the sky would be the limit, unfortunately.
5
This not filmed by an outsider not in media, just on a cell phone than went to media would have been covered up. The attempt of placing evidence at the body was the beginning of a great lie. Everything should be filmed that could be. Why shouldn't the public know what it pays for and how its working not be public info? Not pretty to look at but it is what happened.
4
Murder. Cold blooded murder. It's really that simple. Michael Slager should (key word) spend the rest of his life in prison or he should be executed. It's really hard to get by that simple reality.
Our police departments are dysfunctional ... or at least too many of our departments condone or cover up dysfunctional behavior by their brethren.
It's really hard to get by the simple reality that some cops use their badge to exert power over others for the simple reason that they can get away with it. From the bullying road rage exhibited by NYC detective Patrick Cherry to the murdering instincts of Officer Slager, some cops should simply not be in uniform in the first place. Or, if they are in uniform, other cops need to hold them accountable for their actions. The blue wall of silence is not good for America, let alone for the individuals involved in these incidents.
So what do we do about it?
First, the use of video must become a norm. In addition to all cops wearing such devices, all vehicles must be equipped with such devices.
Second, if a cop tells a citizen to stop video taping an incident, the cop must be held accountable for interfering with a citizen's right to a fair trial through the collection of evidence. Accountability must include sanctions.
Third, if a cop demonstrates repeat behavior, he must be fired for cause. If other cops cover for him, they must be held accountable, right up the line.
This type of behavior is unacceptable in this country.
Our police departments are dysfunctional ... or at least too many of our departments condone or cover up dysfunctional behavior by their brethren.
It's really hard to get by the simple reality that some cops use their badge to exert power over others for the simple reason that they can get away with it. From the bullying road rage exhibited by NYC detective Patrick Cherry to the murdering instincts of Officer Slager, some cops should simply not be in uniform in the first place. Or, if they are in uniform, other cops need to hold them accountable for their actions. The blue wall of silence is not good for America, let alone for the individuals involved in these incidents.
So what do we do about it?
First, the use of video must become a norm. In addition to all cops wearing such devices, all vehicles must be equipped with such devices.
Second, if a cop tells a citizen to stop video taping an incident, the cop must be held accountable for interfering with a citizen's right to a fair trial through the collection of evidence. Accountability must include sanctions.
Third, if a cop demonstrates repeat behavior, he must be fired for cause. If other cops cover for him, they must be held accountable, right up the line.
This type of behavior is unacceptable in this country.
18
This first step is to hold the probability of truth on equal levels, police are human. As with a citizen, if there is a shooting, arrest the officer, place them on bail if appropriate, assume they are innocent until proven guilty and then put them on trial. Not a fake trial, like Ferguson, but a real trial.
10
Uhhh . . . there was no trial in Ferguson.
One can be pro-law enforcement and publicly minded without unconditionally supporting the police. I always assist my fellow man as I do all non-human animals in distress. I can't tell you, therefore, the number of times over the decades I've intervened in public assaults, all over the world. I've never carried a gun or any other weapon. I've never worn body armour. I've never been protected by my membership of a gang. Heck, most of the time I've never even had insurance for personal injury or third party.
Police forces are a modern invention. We don't need to have full-time, paid police forces any more than we need full-time, paid fire fighters. Instead, we need groups of volunteers, supplemented by paid day and night watchmen. We, the citizenry, need to take responsibility for the fate and safety of our own neighbourhoods. We should not be handing control over to paramilitary organisations such as the police.
We get the leaders and the communities we deserve.
Police forces are a modern invention. We don't need to have full-time, paid police forces any more than we need full-time, paid fire fighters. Instead, we need groups of volunteers, supplemented by paid day and night watchmen. We, the citizenry, need to take responsibility for the fate and safety of our own neighbourhoods. We should not be handing control over to paramilitary organisations such as the police.
We get the leaders and the communities we deserve.
3
I'm having trouble visualizing a system of tens of the thousands of volunteers needed to police a large city (though it would be many more, as these volunteers would presumably have day jobs and wouldn't be pulling 40-hour weeks). How would they be trained? How would you keep out the thugs and bullies? What standards for behavior would there be? What are their powers and rules of engagement?
At some point it becomes obvious that the required training and adherence to standards requires a professional, full time force. Since that's what we have, at least we can insist on better standards--something we wouldn't be able to do with volunteers.
At some point it becomes obvious that the required training and adherence to standards requires a professional, full time force. Since that's what we have, at least we can insist on better standards--something we wouldn't be able to do with volunteers.
1
Assuming there wasn't a camera recording the horrible event, you can guess how the police report would have been written by the officer charged with murder.
13
Was written. The officer claimed he shot Scott after Scott tried to grab the officer's tazer. The tape revealed the lie.
8
No debate on requiring the Police to wear video. Federal money from the Justice Dept budget can be applied to purchase cameras for every Law enforcement officer license to carry a gun in the field or not should wear a camera. Not hard - just do it - the President can make it happen nationally if he supports it.
6
What about the actions of the police officer that led up to the confrontation. A traffic stop for "a broken tail light" aka, a DWB - a black man driving a Mercedes. The initial contact was harassment. The fact that the driver was past due on child support was unknown to the officer but the driver bolted fearing arrest and the rest is on video.
The problem runs much deeper than the actual use of force, it goes to the motivation for the initial contact. The escalation to the use of deadly force is imbedded in the initial intent.
The problem runs much deeper than the actual use of force, it goes to the motivation for the initial contact. The escalation to the use of deadly force is imbedded in the initial intent.
18
Disagree, with respect -- attention to small things, like a broken tail-light, trawls a fine-meshed net, with by-catch such as, in this instance, unpaid child-support. In others, a weapon, In others, drug possession, or a warrant outstanding; all things that merit police intervention. This is good community policing, in my view.
The initial contact was, I believe, well justified. The actions following... a horror.
The initial contact was, I believe, well justified. The actions following... a horror.
Kinsely, et al.,
The premise of the "Broken Windows" form of policing is fine. I don't know the practices of the police in the UK. Here in the USA pulling drivers over for a "broken taillight" is usually a ruse for writing a ticket based on other factors (like a Black man driving a luxury car) where there is little basis for assuming that any actual crime is being committed.
I've been pulled over more than once for these broken taillights only to prove that the light is working just fine, but I still get a ticket for some other trumped up infraction. In cases like this one it is usually the crime of DWB (Driving While Black).
Perhaps these practices don't exist in Britain, but they do here.
The premise of the "Broken Windows" form of policing is fine. I don't know the practices of the police in the UK. Here in the USA pulling drivers over for a "broken taillight" is usually a ruse for writing a ticket based on other factors (like a Black man driving a luxury car) where there is little basis for assuming that any actual crime is being committed.
I've been pulled over more than once for these broken taillights only to prove that the light is working just fine, but I still get a ticket for some other trumped up infraction. In cases like this one it is usually the crime of DWB (Driving While Black).
Perhaps these practices don't exist in Britain, but they do here.
It's the lying about how things happen that is so scary.
This time, a video caught the cop lying about the taser; how many times has a cop lied about the need for his brutality when there has been no video to prove him a liar?
Sure, not all cops are lying thugs, but it takes a speial person, no less an unusual cop, to fess up to having used undue violence against a citizen.
This time, a video caught the cop lying about the taser; how many times has a cop lied about the need for his brutality when there has been no video to prove him a liar?
Sure, not all cops are lying thugs, but it takes a speial person, no less an unusual cop, to fess up to having used undue violence against a citizen.
11
All cops lie for each other. Always have, always will. And then they want us to respect them. Crazy is as crazy does.
2 points.....we have too many police who should not be police...and police have become paramilitary response forces with heavy military training and background...that is not what policing is. This is partly the media's fault for its fear mongering reporting the past two decades.
Secondly the police actually welcome cameras to quell the false reports, lawsuits of abuse and complaints by citizens...especially the AFRICAN AMERICAN community where in places like NYC it is encouraged and an epidemic.....
Secondly the police actually welcome cameras to quell the false reports, lawsuits of abuse and complaints by citizens...especially the AFRICAN AMERICAN community where in places like NYC it is encouraged and an epidemic.....
7
The awareness starting to surface is that African-American men in the U.S. have been in danger for a very long time. A few brave souls have tried to tell whites in this country that the police are targeting them, harrassing them, threatening them, ticketing them for nothing, tasering them, and killing them, but we didn't hear or didn't believe.
Now the truth about this criminal behavior by white police officers is on yet another video. I think, this time, the fog of denial will finally lift.
Now the truth about this criminal behavior by white police officers is on yet another video. I think, this time, the fog of denial will finally lift.
10
But for the video recorded by this gentleman, a bystander, probably, the police officer might have escaped law. That the officer shot eight times at a man running away from him shows the mind of the officer, viz., to finish off the victim. Nothing stopped the officer from taking an aim at the victim's leg. The victim was not running very far. The officer had ample time to take a good aim and shoot at the victim's leg, if at all, the victim posed danger to the policeman.
I feel, rather than installing video camera in the uniform of every officer, it would be better to install virtues like humanity and kindness in the hearts and minds of these gentlemen. Colour of the skin does not reflect the character and conduct of a person. This basic fact should be the first lesson to officers during their training period.
I feel, rather than installing video camera in the uniform of every officer, it would be better to install virtues like humanity and kindness in the hearts and minds of these gentlemen. Colour of the skin does not reflect the character and conduct of a person. This basic fact should be the first lesson to officers during their training period.
78
This shooting was totally abhorrent and there is simply no doubt over what occurred. None the less, the officer has the capability of pulling up on his computer in the squad car any open warrents for the victim's arrest. He may have known he was wanted for non payment of child support. That being so, it is still NO reason for shots to be fired. Please remember, too, it is virtually impossible to just shoot someone fleeing in the leg. My last point, if a policeman pulls you over, do what he says! Don't run, don't reach for something, don't argue, just do what he asks and none of this would have happened.
This was a tragic happening with a tragic result. I also agree with the Police Cheif, it sickened me.
This was a tragic happening with a tragic result. I also agree with the Police Cheif, it sickened me.
T. Anand-
Police are specifically taught NEVER to shoot to wound. If a weapon is drawn and fired it is ONLY to be done so to kill because of a situation where the officers life is threatened or the lives of others are threatened.
Trying to wound is the stuff of Hollywood fiction.
Clearly this man is a victim of manslaughter at the least, murder at the most. There is no excuse ever to shoot a fleeing man, ever.
Well , hardly ever.
Tragic, sickening, seems to be happening on an increasingly frequent basis or maybe not. Perhaps this has been the black mans reality for a hundred years and only now are we seeing the proof.
Read " Devil in the Grove" for an all too sickening examination of how police power to murder is hardly new.
Police are specifically taught NEVER to shoot to wound. If a weapon is drawn and fired it is ONLY to be done so to kill because of a situation where the officers life is threatened or the lives of others are threatened.
Trying to wound is the stuff of Hollywood fiction.
Clearly this man is a victim of manslaughter at the least, murder at the most. There is no excuse ever to shoot a fleeing man, ever.
Well , hardly ever.
Tragic, sickening, seems to be happening on an increasingly frequent basis or maybe not. Perhaps this has been the black mans reality for a hundred years and only now are we seeing the proof.
Read " Devil in the Grove" for an all too sickening examination of how police power to murder is hardly new.
1
You're assuming that his aim is not as bad as his judgement.
Let's start with no police stop for broken tail lights. The police can take a picture and plate number and a ticket canbe sent to the owner of the vehicle giving him/her thirty days to show proof of resolution. I am sure many folks driving older cars don't even know it is out.
15
At this point, cameras on officers aren't enough. I'd like to see more public camera. If you really want to detect crime and stop it, by everybody, we need more camera surveillance. Boston proved that.
Cops can get around body cams and cameras in their cars. Cameras in public places are harder to circumvent. Review the films and get rid of innocuous recording on a regular basis. You can even make the deletion automatic. But you will have record of criminal acts in public places.
Cops can get around body cams and cameras in their cars. Cameras in public places are harder to circumvent. Review the films and get rid of innocuous recording on a regular basis. You can even make the deletion automatic. But you will have record of criminal acts in public places.
4
I've been mulling over in my head whether it's the police officers who should be wearing bodycams, or the citizens, for their own protection.
1
My God, what were things like for blacks during Jim Crow when camera-phones where not ubiquitous? My fervent wish is that there were videos of the police action in Ferguson, and of Travon Martin's killing at the hands of George Zimmerman. It is a travesty that a black person needs exacting video-proof to obtain any sort of justice.
16
Why should police, anywhere, object to wearing cameras? Object to citizens cellphone videos by bystanders? Why should their actions be anything other than transparent?
Unfortunately and tragically, the answer is simply that those we have hired to uphold the law and protect the citizens in our communities are often the real lawbreakers. Shooting an individual in the back as he runs away? A choke hold resulting in death for selling a few cigarettes?
Only a sustained national campaign expressing outrage at recent police crimes has the potential to effect real change. The leaders in our judicial system and law enforcement must speak out and take a leadership role. And where are the leaders in Congress demanding change?
It's time to take action to save this nation's very humanity and its soul.
Unfortunately and tragically, the answer is simply that those we have hired to uphold the law and protect the citizens in our communities are often the real lawbreakers. Shooting an individual in the back as he runs away? A choke hold resulting in death for selling a few cigarettes?
Only a sustained national campaign expressing outrage at recent police crimes has the potential to effect real change. The leaders in our judicial system and law enforcement must speak out and take a leadership role. And where are the leaders in Congress demanding change?
It's time to take action to save this nation's very humanity and its soul.
13
The answer to your questions in your first paragraph is, "Because they forgot who their boss is . . . the public."
And, of course, when they kill or simply murder, it's a question of their veracity... and it's their word against all others.
7
There are two types that select police work....
The good: Those that are essentially good, they are peace officers, law abiding... respectful, decent, best of breed, kind, helpful, they will walk the old lady across the street, deliver the baby, carry the child from the burning building, sacrifice and care for those in trouble, personally secure, often religious, always tolerant.
None of the above... they use the badge to justify and to cover their aggressive side, bullying, heavy handed, they throw their weight around, they are insecure and they are dangerous to cross...
You know these types - either one - when you meet them.
Sadly, there seem to be more of the 2nd type than the first...
And blacks have no chance in the face of a cop like the one in North Charleston.
The good: Those that are essentially good, they are peace officers, law abiding... respectful, decent, best of breed, kind, helpful, they will walk the old lady across the street, deliver the baby, carry the child from the burning building, sacrifice and care for those in trouble, personally secure, often religious, always tolerant.
None of the above... they use the badge to justify and to cover their aggressive side, bullying, heavy handed, they throw their weight around, they are insecure and they are dangerous to cross...
You know these types - either one - when you meet them.
Sadly, there seem to be more of the 2nd type than the first...
And blacks have no chance in the face of a cop like the one in North Charleston.
4
I was with you until you mentioned religion. I'm willing to bet that the officer that killed Mr. Scott considers himself christian. Some of the most moral people in know are atheists, and the world is full of examples of religious charlatans and thugs.
Whatever attributes you're looking for, they seem to be independent of religion. I think authoritarianism (as defined by Altmeyer) is the attribute we want to avoid at all costs, and that one can be tested for.
Whatever attributes you're looking for, they seem to be independent of religion. I think authoritarianism (as defined by Altmeyer) is the attribute we want to avoid at all costs, and that one can be tested for.
1
And the problem is that the "blue wall of silence" means that the good won't call out the bad when the time comes. The police can solve this problem if they actually try to root out the bad actors rather than cover up for them.
Now we have witnesses at the lynchings!
Too many bad apples? An endemic rust or scale that needs the orchards to be cut down, burned, and replanted (in a metaphoric sense)
Too many bad apples? An endemic rust or scale that needs the orchards to be cut down, burned, and replanted (in a metaphoric sense)
3
I think we should be careful about the words we use: in the latest case, -- and perhaps in a few others -- it was not "use of deadly force" by a police officer, but "murder". Your title should reflect that fact.
9
We are learning we can't reply on the truthfulness of police officers - and possibly never could.
The real takeaway here is not that police should wear body cameras, it's that the public must learn to have the guts to film police officers even when doing so may be risking great bodily harm or death. Feiden Santana is the kind of good citizen we need now. Without his courage, Michael Slager would have gotten away with murder.
The real takeaway here is not that police should wear body cameras, it's that the public must learn to have the guts to film police officers even when doing so may be risking great bodily harm or death. Feiden Santana is the kind of good citizen we need now. Without his courage, Michael Slager would have gotten away with murder.
11
Police body cams may be a good idea but it would a whole lot better if police officers were taught that it is not open season on citizens. Just because its "filmed" won't stop the behavior unless punishment is actually handed out to both the officers and his superiors. We need to make sure that the conduct doesn't happen because once its filmed someone is already dead.
6
So police officers are "outraged" to be videotaped? Well, well.
Their outrage must be countered by our outrage at their behavior.
If they don't want to be taped, they should clean up their act and follow their training .
Their outrage must be countered by our outrage at their behavior.
If they don't want to be taped, they should clean up their act and follow their training .
9
All police officers are humans but not all humans can be police officers. In other words, maybe we should re-examine the process of selecting the people who we allow to carry weapons and protect us.
8
The police cannot be relied upon to tell the truth. They are pretty much the same everywhere in the U.S. . In San Francisco, where we have 'Scandal of the Week'. They constitute a criminal conspiracy as defined under RICO: Fake investigations; fake evidence; always claiming that the people they shoot were a existential threat; self described as "heroes"; fake overtime; stealing drugs, money and planting fake evidence. All of this is devoted to the main thing: extracting as much money from the public as possible by using the drama and chicanery of the "I was in danger" narrative to justify their endless violence against unarmed people.
Police and fire work are two of the safest occupations in North America. Heavily armed, largely immune to scrutiny, and riding the wave of white suburban paranoia, the police have made a very profitable business out of the shooting and beating and violation of poor and often mentally unstable people.
Police and fire work are two of the safest occupations in North America. Heavily armed, largely immune to scrutiny, and riding the wave of white suburban paranoia, the police have made a very profitable business out of the shooting and beating and violation of poor and often mentally unstable people.
19
Wow, cold blooded killer. Imagine if this event wouldn't have been caught on camera. I bet he would have got away with it.
4
With citizens becoming surveillants of the state we have inverted the Orwellian future. It feels like justice.
11
The most depressing thing about this episode is that some people still find the officer's actions defensible. I've heard comments like "if he didn't run away he wouldn't have gotten shot" or "he shouldn't have resisted arrest" or "this man is a criminal who broke law". To have such opinions means you have zero grasp of our Constitution and a general disregard for human life.
Everyone needs to understand that our police do not have the authority to kill people at their discretion The only time an officer is permitted to use deadly force is when someone's life is in immediate danger. Outside that strict provision, an officer's role is enforce the law and bring law breakers to justice. This officer just upended our entire justice system by playing the role of judge, jury and executioner. No one person in this country should exercise that power over someone else.
Everyone needs to understand that our police do not have the authority to kill people at their discretion The only time an officer is permitted to use deadly force is when someone's life is in immediate danger. Outside that strict provision, an officer's role is enforce the law and bring law breakers to justice. This officer just upended our entire justice system by playing the role of judge, jury and executioner. No one person in this country should exercise that power over someone else.
366
I like your position, but think you are misunderstanding the circumstances under which a police officer may kill you....it's not just when "someone's life is in immediate danger" (which most of us would assume to mean about to experience severe bodily harm or even death), but under a whole slew of circumstances neatly covered by "i was in fear for my safety"....and that is scary. Read the other article which touches upon the circumstances under which you can be shot in the back. Felony assault is reason enough (or more disturbingly fear of any further assault). While i assume that "felony" here means grievous bodily injury was the result of the assault, given how even minor infractions are being deemed to be felonies, i wouldn't be too sure. ...one thing is for certain, while there are good cops out there, make no mistake about it, the citizens of this country are under assault by an increasingly militarized and what appears to be an increasingly unaccountable police force.
2
"No one person in this country should exercise that power over someone else." Amen! ...unless the target is a foreign brown person and it's a drone strike - then it's cool, right? Or is perhaps the entire US system - from local law enforcement to overseas operations - morally corrupt?
I've been asking myself why Mr. Scott was running away. It doesn't make sense that it was to avoid arrest -- the police by this time already knew his identity and why would he want to add resisting arrest to any pending charges? Perhaps with a Taser already in his back and/or due to something Officer Slager might have said he had ample reason to be fearing for his life. We could ask Officer Slager about this, but at this point who could expect an honest answer from him?
1
Maybe the problem isn't the lack of monitoring of police, but rather it's who we hire to be our law enforcement. We seem to view the job as something for doers (not thinkers), sent out Robocop style into the night to patrol dangerous streets as lone sentinels. We even seem to tolerate the concept of the tough cop willing to break police policies to get the job done. Below are 3 of dozens of personal examples I can cite.
I was the victim of an armed robbery that turned into a kidnapping in Baltimore several years ago. When I called the police for help I found them to be rude and upsetting. They addressed me with profanity, got literally every detail of my report wrong, and tried to "assist me" during the random photo lineup and selecting the right perp photos.
My first case as a lawyer involved a young black man, who had been shot in the back by police while fleeing, because they thought he had a gun. He ran because he was ignorant and was afraid the police he saw walking by on the street were there to arrest him for failure to pay child support. He had a cellphone in has hand. He was shot in the back by police, who then faced with the reality of what they had done, tried to frame him for attempted murder.
I have a black friend, also a lawyer, have a gun drawn on him by a police officer who thought he was walking out of an IHOP without paying his bill, which would still be a ridiculous reason to pull a gun on someone, and wasn't the case anyhow.
I was the victim of an armed robbery that turned into a kidnapping in Baltimore several years ago. When I called the police for help I found them to be rude and upsetting. They addressed me with profanity, got literally every detail of my report wrong, and tried to "assist me" during the random photo lineup and selecting the right perp photos.
My first case as a lawyer involved a young black man, who had been shot in the back by police while fleeing, because they thought he had a gun. He ran because he was ignorant and was afraid the police he saw walking by on the street were there to arrest him for failure to pay child support. He had a cellphone in has hand. He was shot in the back by police, who then faced with the reality of what they had done, tried to frame him for attempted murder.
I have a black friend, also a lawyer, have a gun drawn on him by a police officer who thought he was walking out of an IHOP without paying his bill, which would still be a ridiculous reason to pull a gun on someone, and wasn't the case anyhow.
16
Ditto. As a person working in courts at every level for 50 years I can attest to that. But police also harm white people .... traffic police should not carry guns...police who stop you for jay walking should not be permitted to frisk you to find a crime like drug possession or even gun possession because these objects can be planted on citizens. Someone breaking a traffic regulation can be traced by their auto, why chase them?? And on and on.
2
“They’re always assumed to be telling the truth, unless there’s tangible evidence otherwise.” This is what most Americans believe. But people of color for years have seen and said some, not even most police plant, lie and become predators with a license to kill.
The problem is the good cops cannot say anything or they will be label a snitch and the bad live to see another day to kill and plant and lie and use the script that seems to always work by saying he was reaching for my gun or I feared for my life and therefore a justified shooting, case closed. It truly seems that most, if not all, police bleed blue.
Lord knows they have a really hard job and most do this hard job correctly and should be honored. But this video should be a wakeup call that we need to hold the police more accountable by wearing camera that are on and working. This hopefully will protect the police and the individual(s) involved. I say hopefully because having the video in the Gardner case in New York did not change a thing?
The problem is the good cops cannot say anything or they will be label a snitch and the bad live to see another day to kill and plant and lie and use the script that seems to always work by saying he was reaching for my gun or I feared for my life and therefore a justified shooting, case closed. It truly seems that most, if not all, police bleed blue.
Lord knows they have a really hard job and most do this hard job correctly and should be honored. But this video should be a wakeup call that we need to hold the police more accountable by wearing camera that are on and working. This hopefully will protect the police and the individual(s) involved. I say hopefully because having the video in the Gardner case in New York did not change a thing?
10
For years, the White House practiced "signature strikes", bombing gathering which had the "signature" of a gathering of Jihadists. For example, as it happened many times, a wedding.
These drone attacks were a mass violation of human rights. They emanated from the same culture that makes it possible to have the sort of police violence that was considered routine, and even correct behavior, until very recently. Actually one may argue that the latter caused the former.
It is time to reconsider the violence paradigm in the USA. Please do not forget that the USA has, officially, the greatest judicial activity in the world... With millions incarcerated, or under judicial punishment.
These drone attacks were a mass violation of human rights. They emanated from the same culture that makes it possible to have the sort of police violence that was considered routine, and even correct behavior, until very recently. Actually one may argue that the latter caused the former.
It is time to reconsider the violence paradigm in the USA. Please do not forget that the USA has, officially, the greatest judicial activity in the world... With millions incarcerated, or under judicial punishment.
2
This is one time when the NRA is correct when they argue that it's not the guns which are at fault, but the people who are allowed to carry them. If we are going to begin to control who is allowed to carry lethal weapons, we should start by examining the qualifications of law enforcement officers who are expected to carry guns every day as they do their job. In recent trips to Europe I have seen countless uniformed men and women carrying everything from pistols to machine guns, yet nobody's getting shot on the Champs Elysee for running down the sidewalk, Obviously there are out of control cops in the US who are the root of this problem.
4
In this day and age, there is no need for chasing the suspect, and asserting the police authority. A dash cam image, a body camera image or the traffic camera image of the suspect's license plate, his car, and his frontal photo will do. He can be nabbed at his home or on the street at a later time by multiple officers closing in.
8
A black man is stopped for a auto light infraction on his vehicle. For whatever the black man flees from the police officer. The officer has the vehicle used by the offending individual that can be used to track down the supposed offender, but instead choses to stop the individual by shooting him in the back, EIGHT times. Question is, what prompts the officer to use such violent force for what started to be a minor incident. Poor training, general behavior and attitude by many police officers toward black men, rampant racism? After viewing previous similar incidents involving confrontations between white police officers and back men, where the supposed offender was shot to death and was left to die without any attempt to call for medical help, one has to question this behavior by certain individuals in police uniform as simply racists behavior toward our fellow African Americans.
8
These three videos are horrifying beyond words.
Body cameras should have been mandated by Federal law a long time ago because the police have been out of control for ages. I'm sick of hearing that it's only a few bad apples. No it's not. The man who keeps quiet about a racist murderer is as guilty as the racist murderer. It’s a very neurotically enabled culture.
There's only one reason why police officers and whole departments would resist wearing body cameras: because they don't want to be held accountable and they don't want their power curbed. Innocent men of integrity are happy to have their integrity recorded. They're also grateful for anything that will help them keep their integrity when situations are challenging.
Those who don't want to be recorded want to be able to make excuses for themselves when they commit crimes. There are few black and white things in life but this is one of them. That a jury acquits a police officer these days doesn’t at all indicate his innocence.
And Fialko's statement that videos lie is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
Body cameras should have been mandated by Federal law a long time ago because the police have been out of control for ages. I'm sick of hearing that it's only a few bad apples. No it's not. The man who keeps quiet about a racist murderer is as guilty as the racist murderer. It’s a very neurotically enabled culture.
There's only one reason why police officers and whole departments would resist wearing body cameras: because they don't want to be held accountable and they don't want their power curbed. Innocent men of integrity are happy to have their integrity recorded. They're also grateful for anything that will help them keep their integrity when situations are challenging.
Those who don't want to be recorded want to be able to make excuses for themselves when they commit crimes. There are few black and white things in life but this is one of them. That a jury acquits a police officer these days doesn’t at all indicate his innocence.
And Fialko's statement that videos lie is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
8
If cameras are required to be worn by law enforcement then individuals will have to adhere to the new rules or laws if enacted or step down, resign. Cameras can be of assistance to determine a clearer picture to acquit an officer (glass half full right?) those few with criminal actions taken against others, will suffer accordingly from their decisions. There is no black and white byn law enforcement in how to conduct one's self - it's done the right way or not at all. Anyone objecting to wearing a camera in the course of policing once enacted must step down and leave the profession.
Police are human beings. They are subject to the same psychological shortcomings (biases, fears, irrationality, et al.) that all human beings face. Why are people so surprised when they demonstrate these failings in horribly catastrophic ways?
(Please note: Just to be clear, I am in no way defending the murder of another human being. I just don't understand why people some how 'magically' believe that human beings with certain jobs/positions are somehow less infallible than the rest of us.)
I wonder if (and truly hope) there is a way, as a society, to minimize these types of tragedies?
(Please note: Just to be clear, I am in no way defending the murder of another human being. I just don't understand why people some how 'magically' believe that human beings with certain jobs/positions are somehow less infallible than the rest of us.)
I wonder if (and truly hope) there is a way, as a society, to minimize these types of tragedies?
1
The police are indeed human beings but so are the citizens. We are not animals. The police first assumption is that the person stopped is guilty (and it doesn't even matter what they are guilty of) or why else would that person be stopped and it goes down hill from there. Giving people with that kind of mentality sauced with prejuidice and bigotry and there is no way to "minimize" the rampant abuse of citizens. It must not be minimazed it must be stopped. Demilitarize the police, remove those that believe they are some kind of occupying force. Vote.
3
Indeed the Police are held to higher moral standards and should be LESS fallible than the general population. The Police are also human with personal failures. But they are trained (or presumed) to overcome those failures even in critical situations, because they are armed and their mistakes can be deadly.
Their biases can kill or put innocent people in jail; my bias against a person will not have such consequential effects.
Their biases can kill or put innocent people in jail; my bias against a person will not have such consequential effects.
2
Yes, take away their guns.
2
Owing and using a weapon carries a great responsibility. Maybe we should look into the process of selecting a police officer and giving him/her a gun. Same as selecting and licening a person to fly an airplane (latest aircrash in Europe)
5
I have known several cops in my time, and they were good and decent people, but I don't seek them out as friends, for the same reason that I don't keep company with other people who carry guns.
13
Why should not policemen and policewomen wear cameras whenever they are at work? Fewer of those detained might then die in the cells or sustain injury on their way there. -- Surely those who insure any sort of "security personnel firm", or indeed who insure municipalities, ought also to insist, in exchange for lower premia, that cameras be worn at all times, and ought to write into their contracts that if the camera wasn't working that day, if the archivist has mislaid the tapes, the next year's insurance costs will treble, quadruple, rise a hundredfold. Let money talk.
Statistics are beginning to emerge that communities policed by camera wearing cops are showing reduced crime rates and arrests. Both citizen and cop knowing their actions and words are recorded tend to behave well.
1
25% of police forces nationwide use body cams? And that number is growing thanks to incidents like this?
Fine. But what's to prevent these body cams from being "lost in the scuffle," or from mysteriously malfunctioning when their footage is subpoenaed? What's to prevent the data they capture from being mismanaged and "accidentally" lost at the precinct?
I can not accept the body cam solution until it can be proved beyond doubt that the evidence these body cams collect is tamper-proof and un-deleteable, and that the placement of these cameras can not be manipulated in the field by the officers wearing them. That's just how much I trust our "finest."
If you think policemen deserve the benefit of the doubt in all cases (which has always been the de facto assumption of our judicial system), just watch the video of Michael Slager surreptitiously dropping something next to the prone body of Walter Scott in the aftermath of an in-the-back shooting which he initially described as self-defense.
I'm not buying the bodycam solution until someone explains to me how
Fine. But what's to prevent these body cams from being "lost in the scuffle," or from mysteriously malfunctioning when their footage is subpoenaed? What's to prevent the data they capture from being mismanaged and "accidentally" lost at the precinct?
I can not accept the body cam solution until it can be proved beyond doubt that the evidence these body cams collect is tamper-proof and un-deleteable, and that the placement of these cameras can not be manipulated in the field by the officers wearing them. That's just how much I trust our "finest."
If you think policemen deserve the benefit of the doubt in all cases (which has always been the de facto assumption of our judicial system), just watch the video of Michael Slager surreptitiously dropping something next to the prone body of Walter Scott in the aftermath of an in-the-back shooting which he initially described as self-defense.
I'm not buying the bodycam solution until someone explains to me how
10
Since 9/11, police in the United Sates, in order to "protect our safety", have been given more and more military like training. Many police departments have acquired equipment, which before 9/11, no one would ever think they need. SWAT teams have become paramilitary units. With this weaponry, comes the training of everyone could be a potential terrorist. Finally, throw in "profiling" based on race or ethnic group.
The Denver police department, while they have not hit the shooting level, yet, have had a number of incidents. The City of Denver has been paying out settlements for various police brutality incidents. The same goes for the Denver County Sheriff's Office and Denver County Jail. These type of incidents happen about every two months. Few measures have been taken to reduce these incidents, but the city/county leaders have accepted settlements as part of running their government.
These various killing "incidents" Cleveland, Furgeuson, Brooklyn, North Charleston, "insert city here", are the result of a nation who has ceded more power to their police. We also provided them with funding, training and equipment to "protect the homeland". In the process, their mission has gone from being a partner with the people, to being a partner with the government.
"Protect and serve" hast become protect their jurisdiction above all else. Another sign, that 9/11 has changed the landscape forever. And this change will continue us seeing more incidents like North Charleston.
The Denver police department, while they have not hit the shooting level, yet, have had a number of incidents. The City of Denver has been paying out settlements for various police brutality incidents. The same goes for the Denver County Sheriff's Office and Denver County Jail. These type of incidents happen about every two months. Few measures have been taken to reduce these incidents, but the city/county leaders have accepted settlements as part of running their government.
These various killing "incidents" Cleveland, Furgeuson, Brooklyn, North Charleston, "insert city here", are the result of a nation who has ceded more power to their police. We also provided them with funding, training and equipment to "protect the homeland". In the process, their mission has gone from being a partner with the people, to being a partner with the government.
"Protect and serve" hast become protect their jurisdiction above all else. Another sign, that 9/11 has changed the landscape forever. And this change will continue us seeing more incidents like North Charleston.
8
This is an attitude that is imprinted into the society, maybe it is derived from calvinism, maybe the US missed the enlightment of Imanual Kant, which came a century later. Anyway, ten times more people are incarcerated in the US than in europe, and the crimes rates are not lower at all.
You can not explain this all by an harsher law enforcement, the whole system is creating mavericks by meddling victims with loosers. The police is just cleaning up the fall out of a society with an auto-immune syndrom.
You can not explain this all by an harsher law enforcement, the whole system is creating mavericks by meddling victims with loosers. The police is just cleaning up the fall out of a society with an auto-immune syndrom.
8
It would be a shame if the only lesson learned from this episode concerns white cops killing black men. Putting video cameras on police solves a problem, good, but it doesn't solve all the problems. Putting black men into prison in effect because they are poor - unable to keep up with child support payments - is wrong, and makes American just as much an exception from civilised nations as its ungodly love of guns.
21
Police throughout North America refuse to heed years of citizen pleas to stop using deadly force. These killings are absolutely outrageous and must stop. But finally a police officer has been charged with murder! I applaud Mr Sultana for his bravery in capturing the horrible shooting in North Charleston on his cellphone and not erasing it. I don't believe that body cameras worn by police are reliable because they can be turned off. Time and time again police have lied about such events and can't be trusted. I am sickened by the repugnant police excuses (resisting arrest so a choke hold was used, he had a gun, I was afraid for my life, he wouldn't stop running away, several officers who fired multiple shots at a woman's car with children inside as she sped away from them because they were afraid...the list of incidents is just too long) and their manipulation of grand juries and the justice system which protects them from the punishment they deserve. These are crimes against humanity.
29
Cleveland, 2012:
"In November, about 60 police vehicles pursued the two suspects in a 25-minute chase spanning three cities. One suspect, 30-year-old Malissa Williams, was shot 24 times, and the other, 43-year-old Timothy Russell, was shot 23 times."
Neither Williams nor Russell were armed.
http://www.businessinsider.com/cleveland-police-disciplined-in-deadly-ch...
"In November, about 60 police vehicles pursued the two suspects in a 25-minute chase spanning three cities. One suspect, 30-year-old Malissa Williams, was shot 24 times, and the other, 43-year-old Timothy Russell, was shot 23 times."
Neither Williams nor Russell were armed.
http://www.businessinsider.com/cleveland-police-disciplined-in-deadly-ch...
4
Continued:
"A Cleveland police officer is on trial in connection with the deaths of two unarmed people in 2012, an incident that involved a high-speed chase and a hail of bullets.
Michael Brelo was one of 13 officers who fired a total of 137 shots into the car, but he is the only one charged because prosecutors say he reloaded during the gunfire, and they think it was his shots that killed the couple.
The 22-mile, high-speed police chase through Cleveland involved more than 100 police officers that went terribly wrong, and Brelo, a former Marine, is fighting for his freedom.
Brelo, 31, is charged with voluntary manslaughter for the November 2012 deaths of Timothy Russell, 43, and Malissa Williams, 30. Brelo is pleading not guilty. He faces up to 25 years in prison if convicted.
Authorities say Brelo got on top of the hood of the victims’ Chevy Malibu and fired 15 times through the windshield. In an interview with investigators, Brelo said he thought the couple was shooting back."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/cleveland-police-officer-faces-trial-2012-shoot...
"A Cleveland police officer is on trial in connection with the deaths of two unarmed people in 2012, an incident that involved a high-speed chase and a hail of bullets.
Michael Brelo was one of 13 officers who fired a total of 137 shots into the car, but he is the only one charged because prosecutors say he reloaded during the gunfire, and they think it was his shots that killed the couple.
The 22-mile, high-speed police chase through Cleveland involved more than 100 police officers that went terribly wrong, and Brelo, a former Marine, is fighting for his freedom.
Brelo, 31, is charged with voluntary manslaughter for the November 2012 deaths of Timothy Russell, 43, and Malissa Williams, 30. Brelo is pleading not guilty. He faces up to 25 years in prison if convicted.
Authorities say Brelo got on top of the hood of the victims’ Chevy Malibu and fired 15 times through the windshield. In an interview with investigators, Brelo said he thought the couple was shooting back."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/cleveland-police-officer-faces-trial-2012-shoot...
2
Thank you. I saw an item on this couple. We must bear witness to these outrages and demand justice for the victims.
If I may turn the tables a bit, if a law enforcement officer has done nothing wrong, then he has nothing to fear from his actions being recorded on video.
There are too many good police officers to allow the bad apples to escape justice.
There are too many good police officers to allow the bad apples to escape justice.
13
After Sandy Hook I thought that finally, America would surely make some sensible, long overdue changes to its gun laws. Nothing changed.
Rodney King was 24 years ago. Nothing changed.
Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, Tamir Rice, Eric Garner. Nothing changed.
Terribly sad, but I fear that Walter Scott is just another name in a very long list of unacceptable actions which cause no change in America.
Rodney King was 24 years ago. Nothing changed.
Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, Tamir Rice, Eric Garner. Nothing changed.
Terribly sad, but I fear that Walter Scott is just another name in a very long list of unacceptable actions which cause no change in America.
35
What do Rodney King or Eric Garner, or for that matter any one here have to do with gun laws ?? All except Trayvon Martin were shot or killed by police.
"...a very long list of unacceptable actions which cause no change in America."
1
There have been 209 police shootings in South Carolina over the past five years, and all have been deemed justified. Without clear video evidence, this one would have been number 210 -- despite the autopsy results, which would have shown all of the bullets struck Mr. Scott in the back. You don't have to be "anti-police" to be outraged at this. Pro law enforcement people, such as myself, should be equally outraged. I believe the vast majority of cops are good people who desire to protect and to serve. But the system, as it is, the "blue wall," encourages good cops to remain silent when bad cops act out. And when that happens, the "thin blue line" evaporates altogether.
69
Indeed the video was not necessary to reveal this as murder. Bullets in the back from a distance, no gunpowder residue on victim to indicate close range, shell casings at least 20 feet from where the body fell.
1
To those who happen into circumstances resulting in critical video evidence, I would say be smart about it by remaining anonymous. There's no doubt in my mind what is ahead for the fellow who NBC interviewed about his role in the South Carollina video. His past, present and future will be scrutinized continually by cops looking for revenge against him or anybody close to him. I feel sorry for him. America is not the place to step forward publicly.
29
If he were savvy and prudent, he would move out of that town immediately.
If the entire department of North Charleston is not indicted and brought under federal review than here has been no justice.
No single officer would act in such blatant disregard of the civil rights of another human being without first believing his disregard was honorable to his superiors. I do not care how the leadership of this officers department scramble for cover before the national press. THEY KNEW WHAT WAS ALLOWABLE UNDER THEIR LEAD. Holder has a lot of work to do here to uphold the American ideal of government accountable to its citizens.
Do not retire too soon sir, a task of great importance is at your doorstep
No single officer would act in such blatant disregard of the civil rights of another human being without first believing his disregard was honorable to his superiors. I do not care how the leadership of this officers department scramble for cover before the national press. THEY KNEW WHAT WAS ALLOWABLE UNDER THEIR LEAD. Holder has a lot of work to do here to uphold the American ideal of government accountable to its citizens.
Do not retire too soon sir, a task of great importance is at your doorstep
24
Ms Lynch is coming as the next AG. Hopefully she is made of sterner stuff and will proceed where Mr Holder was more reticent.
1
The USA acts in the world in complete disregard of international law. It kills when, who and how it wants. It kidnaps people and locks them up without trial ad infinitum. It tortures people. Indeed, students at the university in my town do not understand international law until they are excplicitly taught that the USA does not consider itself bound by it. It is not strange that this failure and refusal to submit to the rule of law permeates also inside the country.
30
“'Video can lie,' Mr. Fialko recalled saying in his closing argument. 'The cop is the one out there, hearing what the guy is saying and smelling the guy and seeing his sweat,....'”
Therein lies much of the problem: it seems that in our culture, if a cop does not like what someone says, the way he or she smells, or the amount of their sweat, that cop has the right to use otherwise unnecessary force against that individual.
The fundamental problem manifested here is not racism, not poorly trained police, not police departments and police unions covering for rogue cops but, rather, the culture of America that accepts the view that force, especially lethal force, is an acceptable routine tool of police work and not just a last resort.
Unless one concludes that Americans are inherently more of a violent threat to their police forces than are Brits or Danes, one must conclude that the use of police armed force, which greatly exceeds that of Britain and Denmark (just random examples), is a function of a broader American culture, that accepts such police violence.
Of course, we may in fact be a more violent culture, more prone to resolving differences by lethal force, more the culture described by the N.R.A., in which guns are not merely a right but the preferred method for dealing with social problems. If that is indeed the case, then reform of our police forces will be to no avail unless and until there is a broader cultural change by the public
Therein lies much of the problem: it seems that in our culture, if a cop does not like what someone says, the way he or she smells, or the amount of their sweat, that cop has the right to use otherwise unnecessary force against that individual.
The fundamental problem manifested here is not racism, not poorly trained police, not police departments and police unions covering for rogue cops but, rather, the culture of America that accepts the view that force, especially lethal force, is an acceptable routine tool of police work and not just a last resort.
Unless one concludes that Americans are inherently more of a violent threat to their police forces than are Brits or Danes, one must conclude that the use of police armed force, which greatly exceeds that of Britain and Denmark (just random examples), is a function of a broader American culture, that accepts such police violence.
Of course, we may in fact be a more violent culture, more prone to resolving differences by lethal force, more the culture described by the N.R.A., in which guns are not merely a right but the preferred method for dealing with social problems. If that is indeed the case, then reform of our police forces will be to no avail unless and until there is a broader cultural change by the public
91
Excellent analysis, focusing on the use of lethal force per se: we need police officers brave enough NOT to shoot, even when they do think themselves in some danger.
1
I agree about gun culture but would challenge you on the point that this is not racism. I think it is racism on top of a violent gun culture, and I think the violent gun culture was shaped in no small part by slavery and the fear the whites had of the black slaves that did not magically dissipate with the Emancipation Proclamation. I will even go out on a limb and say that part of the white fear was based on some level of awareness of the evil they were perpetrating, as a human heart recognizes another human no matter how hard you try to suppress it.
1
What the video does not show:
1. The stop was pretextual. The broken tail light was an excuse for investigating suspicious circumstances. Such stops are legal.
2. The stop was made in an area of North Charleston where virtually all residents are poor.
3. Driving a Mercedes in such an area is suspicious. Abandoning it when stopped by the police strongly suggests either that the car was stolen or that Scott was a drug dealer.
4. Scuffling with the police is highly unusual for a law-abiding citizen,
5. Scott was 50 and not fit. Scagle is 33 and fit. Yet Scott got away after the scuffle.
Video shows only the shooting, not the incriminating prelude. Nor does it show whether there was anyone else nearby, like a bunch of kids, who may have been endangered. The media speculates about the stun gun. It ignores all the compromising facts regarding Scott and suggests he is generally law-abiding. Yeah, right.
1. The stop was pretextual. The broken tail light was an excuse for investigating suspicious circumstances. Such stops are legal.
2. The stop was made in an area of North Charleston where virtually all residents are poor.
3. Driving a Mercedes in such an area is suspicious. Abandoning it when stopped by the police strongly suggests either that the car was stolen or that Scott was a drug dealer.
4. Scuffling with the police is highly unusual for a law-abiding citizen,
5. Scott was 50 and not fit. Scagle is 33 and fit. Yet Scott got away after the scuffle.
Video shows only the shooting, not the incriminating prelude. Nor does it show whether there was anyone else nearby, like a bunch of kids, who may have been endangered. The media speculates about the stun gun. It ignores all the compromising facts regarding Scott and suggests he is generally law-abiding. Yeah, right.
5
And does any of this refute the fact that a defenseless man was shot eight times in the back?
107
Running away from a cop is not a capital offense.
152
michjas: Let's say he was was a drug dealer driving a stolen the car, who scuffled with the police wile resisting arrest—does this means he deserves to be shot to death while running away? He may have been all or none of these things yet he is now dead. The USA enjoys the rule of law, and we must hold our officers who are charged with carrying out the law to a high standard. Otherwise we become Russia.
38
I don't understand: if this was a traffic stop for a broken tail light, where is Walter Scott's car, and why aren't they by it? What are they doing standing out on that dirt path?? I've been pulled over for a headlight out, and I just stayed in my car, while the officer wrote me citation. There's no need to get out of the car. I'd like some reporter to get the explanation. Very strange.
12
Though almost no one believed Nixon, he wouldn't have been ousted without the tapes. Though no one would have believed this cop with bullets in the back and buttocks of the victim, would he have still been defended without the video? I think so. In the next few days, we'll see the victim painted as a terrible person. Every misdemeanor he ever thought of will be blasted on Fox. I expect we'll even see a sympathy portrait of his pregnant wife. But the reality of the video is in that video--just as the reality of Nixon is on those tapes. Expletive deleted.
20
Police are not to be trusted. Most of them don't know the difference between right and wrong (as is evidenced by the numerous cops who think it is right and just to murder innocent people), and they will do and say anything to protect themselves.
Frankly I find gangbangers and criminals more honorable and trustworthy. And these days, I truly don't know I'd rather have out controlling/policing my neighborhood: the local gang, or cops. I'm leaning towards the former.
Frankly I find gangbangers and criminals more honorable and trustworthy. And these days, I truly don't know I'd rather have out controlling/policing my neighborhood: the local gang, or cops. I'm leaning towards the former.
8
This is not just about race or police brutality. Why do you think this is a bigger problem in the US than other countries? It's because of all the guns. Cops are trigger happy because they don't know what the other side is packing. I wouldn't mind being a police officer in most countries but I would never be one in the US. There are too many guns.
39
It's about all three, too many guns, too much brutality, and too often much about race. These three symptoms prove we are not a healthy society.
3
As Mr. Keefe said, "“They’re always assumed to be telling the truth, unless there’s tangible evidence otherwise.” I hope that changes. In New York City the defense in a trial cannot get an officer's record, to examine how many times they lied. And the thing is, they lie because there is almost never any cost involved. If you or I lie on the witness stand we are in deep trouble. But cops (and DAs, as well), never. Like when prison guards are not punished for brutality, you get more brutality. And when cops are not punished for lying you get more lies and planted evidence. This might come back to haunt our DAs if cops are routinely disbelieved. And without video, we'd be in a different world. Video has shown us just how brutal and dishonest cops can be. And before anyone starts saying how good cops are horrified by the bad ones, I would ask: how many cops turn bad cops in? 0?
80
Video did not help Rodney King.
If his trial were held today, I wonder what the verdict would be...
May Rodney King rest in peace.
If his trial were held today, I wonder what the verdict would be...
May Rodney King rest in peace.
11
How many of these situations do we have to live through before it becomes obvious that all police MUST be required to have body cams whenever they are on duty and the camera must be turned on at the first indication of interaction with the public? The videos will protect the officer and the public and the systems are now dirt cheap and almost inconspicuous. I see no downside. PLEASE DO IT NOW!
12
Have some police officers participate in some live televised sensitivity training and have some of the people they don't get along with in there too, facing each other off. Get a skilled interviewer or a panel to facilitate them all having it out with each other no holds barred. I mean let them really argue it out... how tired some of those cops are of arresting the same people over and over again, and how cynical that makes them feel. On the other side what it's like for black people to get stopped all the time for minor driving infractions, the fears that black parents feel when their kids go out, "Did anything happen today?" Or maybe not on television, but people have got to start TALKING. Why aren't the mayors of all these towns and cities where these things are happening making conciliation a priority, getting to the bottom of the problem?
6
Of course more video cameras must be installed on police cars and helmets, but all of this begs the question of what sort of people are being recruited into the police force.
What percentage of police are veterans of our various wars abroad, and does that affect their attitude to policing? Also, if it is not impolite to ask, is a standard I.Q. test given? Not to be sarcastic, but some of these guys really do not appear to be very bright.
What percentage of police are veterans of our various wars abroad, and does that affect their attitude to policing? Also, if it is not impolite to ask, is a standard I.Q. test given? Not to be sarcastic, but some of these guys really do not appear to be very bright.
47
You get what you pay for, and that is not much pay. Little education is required either, but the opportunity to gain such power over another human being with so little to qualify you to handle it is attractive to some.
2
"Not to be sarcastic, but some of these guys really do not appear to be very bright."
But wasnt that true 50+ years ago too of local police? I dont disagree but I dont think IQ is the real problem here.
But wasnt that true 50+ years ago too of local police? I dont disagree but I dont think IQ is the real problem here.
1
How many other dead citizens have been dishonored because the police who shot them have lied about their encounters, and then had their crimes covered up by their buddies on the force?
Law enforcement defenders have tried to dismiss generalizations of the kind of heinous, cold-blooded act that killed Walter Scott by saying that these are isolated incidents that don't reflect a pattern. So why are all the victims in these non-crime situations black? Why are the murdering cops white? If this is just a fluke, let's see the cops murdering white folks under the same conditions--stopped for a broken tail light and murdered; stopped for not walking on the sidewalk and murdered; reaching for a wallet to show a license and murdered; playing with a toy gun and murdered.
How many white victims are there who did those things and were murdered? If the law enforcement defenders want to belie the pattern of white cop on black innocent victim violence, let's see some other pattern in police behavior.
No innocent victim should be killed by cops. But if they are, let's see the evidence that they aren't mostly black victims killed by white cops.
Law enforcement defenders have tried to dismiss generalizations of the kind of heinous, cold-blooded act that killed Walter Scott by saying that these are isolated incidents that don't reflect a pattern. So why are all the victims in these non-crime situations black? Why are the murdering cops white? If this is just a fluke, let's see the cops murdering white folks under the same conditions--stopped for a broken tail light and murdered; stopped for not walking on the sidewalk and murdered; reaching for a wallet to show a license and murdered; playing with a toy gun and murdered.
How many white victims are there who did those things and were murdered? If the law enforcement defenders want to belie the pattern of white cop on black innocent victim violence, let's see some other pattern in police behavior.
No innocent victim should be killed by cops. But if they are, let's see the evidence that they aren't mostly black victims killed by white cops.
35
There are a lot of white victims of these types of executions, often quite harmless mentally or emotionally ill or intoxicated white citizens across the country suffer the same fate as Walter Scott, but African Americans are disproportionally the victims of municipality or state sanctione violence. Those doing the killing, lying and planting of evidence on victims are almost always european Americans as was in this case.
One interesting detail -- have you noticed that law enforcement organizations in the South are far more likely to bring charges against law enforcement officers for committing a crime than northern jurisdictions -- New York City, Cleveland, Missouri. In the North and Northeast, officers who commit crimes routinely get away scot free - no charges brought, even for murder. It is also true out here in the West.
I attribute that detail to the South being right-to-work -- their unions or, ahem, "benevolent" organizations don't seem to have a stranglehold on local government, like in New York. These law enforcement organizations are about as corrupt as the Teamsters of the 50s and 60s. What they really are is protection rackets. I wish some enterprising reporters would do some digging there.
We shall see if this police officer walks. What to look for:
1) if the head prosecutor decides to try the case personally, you know the fix is in.
2) If the trial is moved to an all white, conservative jurisdiction, you know the fix is in.
3) If the jury does not have any African Americans on the panel, you know the fix is in.
It's a pattern I've been watching for years and years. This is how they get acquittals for even the most egregious crimes.
I attribute that detail to the South being right-to-work -- their unions or, ahem, "benevolent" organizations don't seem to have a stranglehold on local government, like in New York. These law enforcement organizations are about as corrupt as the Teamsters of the 50s and 60s. What they really are is protection rackets. I wish some enterprising reporters would do some digging there.
We shall see if this police officer walks. What to look for:
1) if the head prosecutor decides to try the case personally, you know the fix is in.
2) If the trial is moved to an all white, conservative jurisdiction, you know the fix is in.
3) If the jury does not have any African Americans on the panel, you know the fix is in.
It's a pattern I've been watching for years and years. This is how they get acquittals for even the most egregious crimes.
19
In the right to work state of Utah, police kill unarmed citizens quite frequently, the majority barely bat an eye, the officers are very rarely charged and it doesn't make national news. I think you are confusing the issues since I can tell you it's not pleasant to face the daily job insecurity of being let go without reason provided, which is a blessing to discriminate against any difference whatsoever that doesn't fall under a specified federal protection. I would never argue that Black America has not been living under an overarching cloud of legitimate and perilous fear, as exposed by such acts. Fear detrimental to well being in all fundamental aspects of life for too many since their forefathers and mothers were brought to this country in chains; but having lived among more diverse populations, I can tell you that at least in Utah, there is equal opportunity in getting gunned down by law enforcement. Take that as you will, what's good for one is good for all, but it's intended as an indictment of a trigger happy "society".
1
You are wrong. There were over 200 incidents in SC alone. No all deaths but those are the ones reported. Drive through SC black and see what I mean. A columnist here in Raleigh was stopped and his car trashed becuase why would a guy like him (black) drive a nice car. He chose to live and say nothing but of course wrote about later. He was hooted down in the comment sections.
2
Sadly jurors believe policemen. This is mainly true regardless of the color of the juror because when a prosecutor picks a juror of color they are confident that juror is a kind of Clarence Thomas. This I've seen many times in my life in court. Policemen come in, years after the 'crime' or incident and recite a script which is, word-for-word identical to their fellow officers called in. What has to be changed is criteria for arrests and for any force used. I personally was stopped on a Sunday morning, 3 a.m. for a directional signal not functioning. The officer was, I could see, angry, hostile and looking for something and I was genuinely scared. Working in the criminal justice system of that town I politely mentioned some names, judges, prosecutors I worked with and he gave me the ticket but let me continue on my trip. There have to be iron-clad rules as to cause for asking someone to get out of the car, for dangerous highway pursuits, and everything that puts people at risk from police encounters.
3
Between the militarization of the police, civil asset forfeiture and the disproportionate arrests of blacks, Hispanics, illegal immigrants and the poor we no longer have police that serve and protect but extort and abuse. Sadly it's all legal and supported because the victims are the least likely to be able to defend themselves.
It's a sad state of affairs when body cameras are the replacement of common sense and respect.
It's a sad state of affairs when body cameras are the replacement of common sense and respect.
87
What we haven't escaped is the chokehold of racism. It is a nasty, pervasive attitude that persists, particularly among certain groups. And some people in law enforcement (most often men) have a disdain for black people and it often comes out with their weapons. Not all police are like this, but there are those who are contemptuous of minorities and it comes out in the most unfortunate way. And they should not be among those who "protect and serve".
11
Surprise: Police officers lie (as well as commit the whole array of crimes from murder on down that they arrest citizens for).
Society needs truthful police because their testimony is required in court. So introducing measures that confirm the veracity of their accounts can only help.
But at the same time, still galling when police unions and fellow officers come to the defense of bad cops. Don't the good ones realize that the bad ones make their jobs harder?
Society needs truthful police because their testimony is required in court. So introducing measures that confirm the veracity of their accounts can only help.
But at the same time, still galling when police unions and fellow officers come to the defense of bad cops. Don't the good ones realize that the bad ones make their jobs harder?
17
A police officer who does not report the crime of a police officer is a criminal too. In that case, silence is a crime of omission.
30
As a country, we need to stop putting law enforcement on pedestals. They are not heroes. The historical narrative has never ever supported that until the confabulation of what happened on 9/11 and they weren't heroes then, either. They were doing their jobs.
They signed up for danger, they're going to get it. You're not a hero when you sign up for it. Heroes come by way of volunteerism.
So stop with the hero talk, it's false, its paints a narrative of law enforcement that is fallacious and it is dangerous. The correct historical narrative of law enforcement is what bears out still to this day in places like Ferguson, Staten Island, Charleston, and many many other places in the United States.
Furthermore, this is a problem that poses a public threat and if localities don't have the power to institute structural and systemic change, then the state needs to make it happen; and if the states are too lame to enforce change, then the federal Department of Justice has to do it.
And we the people, we must not let another incident go by without making these officers accountable. Even if it is illegal to videotape such incidents in your local, I would dare say that there is clearly precedent for civil disobedience.
Had the young man not been videotaping this incident, we all know what would have happened. If the officer doesn't get the death penalty, he better get life in prison.
They signed up for danger, they're going to get it. You're not a hero when you sign up for it. Heroes come by way of volunteerism.
So stop with the hero talk, it's false, its paints a narrative of law enforcement that is fallacious and it is dangerous. The correct historical narrative of law enforcement is what bears out still to this day in places like Ferguson, Staten Island, Charleston, and many many other places in the United States.
Furthermore, this is a problem that poses a public threat and if localities don't have the power to institute structural and systemic change, then the state needs to make it happen; and if the states are too lame to enforce change, then the federal Department of Justice has to do it.
And we the people, we must not let another incident go by without making these officers accountable. Even if it is illegal to videotape such incidents in your local, I would dare say that there is clearly precedent for civil disobedience.
Had the young man not been videotaping this incident, we all know what would have happened. If the officer doesn't get the death penalty, he better get life in prison.
41
I can't help but wonder how many troubling or downright illegal actions have NOT been recorded on tape. Any statisticians out there who can come up with a figure taking into account the monstrous events caught on camera to assess the ones that have not?
8
It's abominable that we need to police the police. Why do we have so many policemen who are always "afraid of their life" that we have had more Americans killed by our own police than have died in war in the last 50 years? It's time to take away their guns, just like in Britain and virtually every other democracy.
19
Hooray for the video person. We have to control cops who murder. At least get the goods on them.
9
I am an older (64) YO 'White Boy," likely not at risk of Police Violence, yet well aware that it exists. They (the police franchises) really do believe that they are a cut-above, when, in-fact, the vast majority of them are poorly educated bumblers who may enjoy their role, but have little training. In larger departments, where training is offered and mandatory, the programs promote the idea of 'we vs. them, and strongly encourage the 'we,' to avoid 'them' even in their personal loves. At the very least, the ill-informed offices are instructed to say absolutely nothing about their jobs to anyone who is not an insider.
The most recent police shooting, this one in S.C., is not a surprise. I must agree with with the victim's family that without the bystander's video and its public release, that department would rally, defend its own and there would be no charges.
I've viewed that horrible tape 25+ times: On-scene officer's aid was limited to hand-cuffs. A pulse may have been checked - and - well What Was It that the sorry officer dropped beside the dead/dying victim? If it turns out to be a 'taser,' that fellow - and his department - are in serious trouble and the murder charge is warranted. Running from "The Police," yet posing zero danger to anyone else, is not, repeat NOT legal or moral justification to shoot the guy, apparently EIGHT SHOTS, IN THE BACK. In time, the fool will face a jury. This white guy hopes that >51% of the jury is non-white. Shame!!
The most recent police shooting, this one in S.C., is not a surprise. I must agree with with the victim's family that without the bystander's video and its public release, that department would rally, defend its own and there would be no charges.
I've viewed that horrible tape 25+ times: On-scene officer's aid was limited to hand-cuffs. A pulse may have been checked - and - well What Was It that the sorry officer dropped beside the dead/dying victim? If it turns out to be a 'taser,' that fellow - and his department - are in serious trouble and the murder charge is warranted. Running from "The Police," yet posing zero danger to anyone else, is not, repeat NOT legal or moral justification to shoot the guy, apparently EIGHT SHOTS, IN THE BACK. In time, the fool will face a jury. This white guy hopes that >51% of the jury is non-white. Shame!!
21
Some of the recent incidents across the country have had understandable justifications for shootings by police, but this case may be the one that argues convincingly for body-cameras for all local U.S. police. It seems to demonstrate that murders by police do occur, that evidence planting happens, and that false police testimony is given. Unless it can be proven that the video was tampered with or staged, or a jury with a racist can be empaneled, Officer Slager seems destined for a long stretch in a South Carolina prison.
2
A cop is always innocent, even when a video shows he killed an unarmed person of color. Our justice system is reflection of the mind-set of the majority. We love punishment and revenge, especially when the receiver is a non-white person.
10
The true test remains of how effective video will play out in the courtroom where its more common for cops to go scot free even in light of the most contradictory evidence. Calls for some kind of national policing policy seems more urgent than ever. Yet there is a stake in keeping the status quo in many municipalities where exploited minorities remain a cash cow for budget shortfalls. Even the national legalization of low level recreational drugs would create noticeable vacancies in the criminal industrial state. Unfortunately law enforcement's concentration on the little fish create a clear path for financial titans and drug lords. The American criminal justice system needs a new model. The current attorney general would seem be the last hope which makes his pending departure so troubling.
9
All officers should have cams and sound recorders full time. Look at dash cams. Wonderful... and on the whole, they have protected police far more than they have protected the public.
We use instant replay for the NFL? Don't we?
I was talking with my mother tonight,,,,,, if there are only one in ten thousand 'bad' cops,, or even one in one hundred thousand 'bad'. cops,,,, those ARE the cops we hear of. And then take perfectly 'good' cops. Do they ever make a mistake? Of course they can, and do.
I think the thing that disturbs me the most,,, is the second cop watches the 'throw down piece'. The third cop does not perform CPR. All three cops lied. Three out of three. All three need to be prosecuted or fired. They are forever useless to testify at trial. They have lied. No testimony from any of the three should ever again be admissible in court. Defense attorneys will see to that. The 2nd and 3rd cops need new careers.
I don't think we need to witch hunt,, just be aware. Perhaps some additional training concerning escalation? No one should die for a cigarette, a tail light, sleeping on a park bench, jaywalking.
We use instant replay for the NFL? Don't we?
I was talking with my mother tonight,,,,,, if there are only one in ten thousand 'bad' cops,, or even one in one hundred thousand 'bad'. cops,,,, those ARE the cops we hear of. And then take perfectly 'good' cops. Do they ever make a mistake? Of course they can, and do.
I think the thing that disturbs me the most,,, is the second cop watches the 'throw down piece'. The third cop does not perform CPR. All three cops lied. Three out of three. All three need to be prosecuted or fired. They are forever useless to testify at trial. They have lied. No testimony from any of the three should ever again be admissible in court. Defense attorneys will see to that. The 2nd and 3rd cops need new careers.
I don't think we need to witch hunt,, just be aware. Perhaps some additional training concerning escalation? No one should die for a cigarette, a tail light, sleeping on a park bench, jaywalking.
18
My coworkers and I were just agreeing that without the film, Officer Slater would have told bogus details about having been compelled by danger to use deadly force and gotten off un-admonished. Thanks to the recording, we all saw murder for what it was.
14
What's truly scary for me is how many people, up to this point, would never doubt a police account of an incident. This has opened many eyes which previously refused to be opened. Now let's hope they use their new found sight to actually see what's happening around them.
2
If we have the money and will to put a camera in every convenience store parking lot in the United States, we should certainly find the money and will to put a camera on every single police officer in the United States.
Documenting cold blooded executions of innocent citizens is perhaps just slightly more important than documenting teenagers keying cars and stealing slurpees.
Documenting cold blooded executions of innocent citizens is perhaps just slightly more important than documenting teenagers keying cars and stealing slurpees.
16
We would all be better off if Police acted on the assumption that they were being recorded. The choice would become, "do you want your handling of a situation to be the model for good or criminal behavior by law enforcement?".
5
There's still a debate? Really??
7
If the police believe they have to shoot in a situation like this, must they shoot to kill? Really, KILLING someone over a traffic stop violation? This is insanity. Even a bullet to the leg might have slowed him down and at least hopefully kept him alive. The policeman also had the choice to LET HIM GO if it was getting out of hand. I have no faith in the policeman who conducts himself this way.
12
The crime recorded in this video reflects a pervasive problem. It is like roaches, for each one you see, there are hundreds in hiding. This level of corruption is a major threat to our national security. What is next with these guys? Will they take bribes from terrorists? Anything is possible when there is this level of abuse of bestowed power to satisfy Machiavellian appetites. While solving problems half the world away is also important for our national security and interests, I sincerely hope that our President realizes the gravity of what we are facing here at home and employs his executive power to implement immediate changes. This got to stop. Now.
12
Everyone, in all walks of life, must be accountable to the rule of law. Putting law enforcement, domestic spies, unfathomably wealthy bankers and politicians on imaginary pedestals – as if they were some unassailable uber-class – has led to the worst failures of our society.
We've gone far too long allowing African-Americans to hunted and shot like dogs, without consequence; it must stop, and every corrupt officer must pay appropriately for their crimes. Now.
We've gone far too long allowing African-Americans to hunted and shot like dogs, without consequence; it must stop, and every corrupt officer must pay appropriately for their crimes. Now.
20
Trained & encouraged to look upon ALL citizens as "the enemy", police forces see us ALL not only as potential criminals but also as potential sources of revenue. Since all police departments are now registered as corporate entities with Dun & Bradstreet (check your local agency to affirm this), their responsibility is no longer to protect & serve, but to arrest & incarcerate. Increasing arrests (Stop & Frisk - NYPD, for example) increases the profit & bottom line for the corporate entity that they have become. The economic incentives for now "Officers of the Corporation" - formerly known as police men & women - are directly tied to the numbers game of arrests. The entire judicial system is a ponzi scheme of connected revenues, whose salaries & bonuses are contingent upon increased numbers within departments. This "public as enemy number 1" mindset is prevalent across the country. The DOJ's assertion that they "don't have the data" to prosecute police criminality is complete rubbish. Janet Reno identified the number one source for potential terrorism in the coming years, & published her findings. In short - ANYONE who criticizes the government's policies - especially those policies that have to do with terrorism - are the enemy. "Domestic Home Grown Terrorists" - you and me - are the number one culprit. Militarize the police - solution no.1. Shoot to kill - solution no.2. Indemnify those involved in the killings - solution no. 3. White wash the findings - problem solved.
9
Current police tactics, often set up by the "White rich, ruling class" has not changed much in centuries. If the police see a minor offense being committed by a person of color, you stop, interrogate, and arrest them if need be. If a white, "cultured" person is caught committing even the most serious offense(s)- smile and wave to them then say, "Howdy sir(ma'am) nice to see you, have a nice day" and let them pass. Wall Street hoodlums get a pass(even by an African American President and Attorney General), and a man who had a broken tail light gets murdered in cold blood. I just wish that we had cell phone cameras decades ago, maybe the body count would have been a lot lower and rogue cops would be in jail today. If this cop gets off- i wouldn't want to live in that town.
9
As the Latin phrase goes: "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
For those of you who grew up in the days when the American education system abandoned the teaching of that language as either an anachronism or a luxury--the phrase is (roughly) translated as "Who will will watch the watchmen?'
The sad truth is that in the American Experiment--we have either reached--or I suspect more accurately--never left--a reality in which it is open season for those who have power to exert their will over--all the way up to ending the lives of--those who don't.
Before all the polemics that will inevitably ensue here clouds this issue--lets focus for a moment upon the transgression of the man seen in the video running (unsuccessfully) away from the bullets:
He had the gall to drive, with a black skin, with a burned out taillight.
In what universe does that justify a fusillade of bullets?
Beyond, of course, ours?
For those of you who grew up in the days when the American education system abandoned the teaching of that language as either an anachronism or a luxury--the phrase is (roughly) translated as "Who will will watch the watchmen?'
The sad truth is that in the American Experiment--we have either reached--or I suspect more accurately--never left--a reality in which it is open season for those who have power to exert their will over--all the way up to ending the lives of--those who don't.
Before all the polemics that will inevitably ensue here clouds this issue--lets focus for a moment upon the transgression of the man seen in the video running (unsuccessfully) away from the bullets:
He had the gall to drive, with a black skin, with a burned out taillight.
In what universe does that justify a fusillade of bullets?
Beyond, of course, ours?
8
Let alone poorly trained, some over 50% plus have just a high school education and the requirements of the job is high school education and in some cases a couple of years in the military, where all they learn is how to shot first and kill. Notwithstanding the police unions that represent the cops, who the public is misled to refer to as officers. The whole facade along with police internal affairs and so called investigations, where cover up, racism and bigotry is wide spread along. The only solution is for the country to start a process to disarm some 80% of the police force.
8
Beyond administrating a death sentence to a black man ran away from him, this police officer endangered everyone who was within range of one of his stray bullets. The lack of judgment wasn't just racist, it was appalling stupid.
15
Why not let any suspects flee? Ultimately people being sought by law-enforcement would either be apprehended at their homes or might turn themselves in. I am completely in favor of Police Officers being required to wear video cameras. I hope our system gets to the point of no video - no conviction. I just do not trust law enforcement, they have so much power to ruin lives and up until now it's the officers word against a citizens. GO TECHNOLOGY!!
10
May be the British have this right by not having police officers carry guns?
12
If you've nothing to hide, officer, you should welcome the camera.
21
WHY count on anyone's statement when video can be had? We are talking life and death here. Sometimes it is just summary execution. Sometimes over a broken tail light.
8
Even the most honorable of people, when faced with the right set of desperate circumstances, are capable of making choices and behaving in ways that they ordinarily would not do. I imagine that even if every police officer in this country wore a camera, and all squad cars were equipped with a camera, desperate officers would find a way to detach or disable those devices, or destroy the footage that had been filmed.
I do not trust the law enforcement community/profession to adequately monitor and regulate itself, just as I do not trust any other profession to adequately monitor and regulate itself - take the medical and legal professions, and corporate world for example. Proper regulation needs to come from the outside.
Who would I trust the most in circumstances involving police abuse and brutality? Every day people like the ones who used their cell phones to record police officers engaged in brutal, illegal acts of violence. Perhaps we ought to be handing out cell phones with cameras to the general public, and offering monetary rewards for footage showing brutal acts by law enforcement.
I do not trust the law enforcement community/profession to adequately monitor and regulate itself, just as I do not trust any other profession to adequately monitor and regulate itself - take the medical and legal professions, and corporate world for example. Proper regulation needs to come from the outside.
Who would I trust the most in circumstances involving police abuse and brutality? Every day people like the ones who used their cell phones to record police officers engaged in brutal, illegal acts of violence. Perhaps we ought to be handing out cell phones with cameras to the general public, and offering monetary rewards for footage showing brutal acts by law enforcement.
5
How many deaths of unarmed Black men by rogue police executioners will it take for us to do something dramatic? These executions are the opposite of law enforcement.
66
"rogue police executioners" "executions"..
Can we step back and understand that the police are NOT the enemy!
Yes there are a few who take things into their own hands...and this was an egregious case. But we just CAN'T paint ALL officers as fascist executioners! We are turning into a country of us vs them.
I was married to a SWAT officer who NEVER even unholstered his gun! Most police will NEVER go that last resort of pulling a gun. No, most look at calming down a situation..getting a person to focus.
Jim you say "do something dramatic?" What? I've actually heard of people having their OWN force strapped with guns responding to stops they hear on police scanners..."Making sure that the police are doing the right thing!!" God what a mess that would be.
The change must come with citizens getting involved. Jim, Do you attend meetings of your neighborhood boards? I did that in Honolulu in a district that was seeing a lot of drug and prostitution problems. Two patrol officers and a senior officer--Lt or Captain would sit with us...go over statistics with us--explain how we could get involved safely.
1) We saw each other as human beings--and saw THEM as people who DID want to make a difference. In safe surroundings we gave the police info on drug houses where there was a LOT of traffic with many pit bulls patrolling the grounds inside chain link fences.
2) The patrolmen at the meetings gave us their personal cards..cell phones and even email addresses.
Can we step back and understand that the police are NOT the enemy!
Yes there are a few who take things into their own hands...and this was an egregious case. But we just CAN'T paint ALL officers as fascist executioners! We are turning into a country of us vs them.
I was married to a SWAT officer who NEVER even unholstered his gun! Most police will NEVER go that last resort of pulling a gun. No, most look at calming down a situation..getting a person to focus.
Jim you say "do something dramatic?" What? I've actually heard of people having their OWN force strapped with guns responding to stops they hear on police scanners..."Making sure that the police are doing the right thing!!" God what a mess that would be.
The change must come with citizens getting involved. Jim, Do you attend meetings of your neighborhood boards? I did that in Honolulu in a district that was seeing a lot of drug and prostitution problems. Two patrol officers and a senior officer--Lt or Captain would sit with us...go over statistics with us--explain how we could get involved safely.
1) We saw each other as human beings--and saw THEM as people who DID want to make a difference. In safe surroundings we gave the police info on drug houses where there was a LOT of traffic with many pit bulls patrolling the grounds inside chain link fences.
2) The patrolmen at the meetings gave us their personal cards..cell phones and even email addresses.
2
Why doesn't the federal government act, make body cameras manadatory and also supply them as well. It'll probably save more lives then giving these departments surplus military assault weapons/ vehicles. I believe both parties will support this, it's getting out of control.
15
Law enforcement is a power reserved for the states and one which the federal government cannot abridge. At best, the most the feds can do is condition funding (for anything) on the states' compliance with a demand. Outside of that, the feds cannot force state/county/local police to do anything.
Not true. The DEA is still conducting raids on marijuana growers in states that have legalized it
Seems to me that much more needs to be done during the hiring phase to weed out those who are unfit for police work. It is hard for me to accept that the policeman in that video did not send signals about his non-existent morals and character long before he got to this point.
I bet if you asked many of his fellow officers if they are surprised by his actions, those who really know him would say no. That policeman did not just become someone with total disregard for the life of another human being on Saturday, he probably always was that kind of person just waiting to show his real colors. Worst yet, there are probably some officers in the department who knew it.
A little more employee screening might be something the North Charleston Police Department, and all police departments in America, should give some thought to.
I am amazed that someone could do what he did in that video and go home to his pregnant wife like it was just another day at the office.
I bet if you asked many of his fellow officers if they are surprised by his actions, those who really know him would say no. That policeman did not just become someone with total disregard for the life of another human being on Saturday, he probably always was that kind of person just waiting to show his real colors. Worst yet, there are probably some officers in the department who knew it.
A little more employee screening might be something the North Charleston Police Department, and all police departments in America, should give some thought to.
I am amazed that someone could do what he did in that video and go home to his pregnant wife like it was just another day at the office.
15
"Video can lie". No, police officers can lie.
49
The message: turn on your phone video cameras when someone is getting arrested. How long has evidence been planted, stories corroborated? How long have officers spun that their lives were "at risk" when they were merely enraged at being challenged? Cell phone video cameras have uncovered a dirty type of police work that has infected many precincts. The shoot first mentality has been out of a lazy, paranoid hyper-safety--a type of cowardice that is shameful. The video of the boy being shot at close range by cops in a car is the prime example. Slager shooting a 50 year old man five times in the back as stumble-runs away is absurdly horrific. Until the police gain our trust back, the citizens need to police the police. Captains should be fired, Mayors unseated until cultures change.
32
The most calloused northern living in low crime white areas can no longer have any doubts that police officers have learned to kill first and react later. Incidences of police killing fleeing suspects is rare where crime is rare, but where citizens take the laws lightly, police take them seriously and far beyond what law allows. Some police may take the law into their own hands because they know judges will send dangerous criminals back on the streets time after time. Many judges should be removed from the bench and many legislators should be required to build more prisons, but that has no place in law enforcement.
The police unions are probably not prepared for this type of incident that is obviously carried out and excused daily. If the cop in this case is innocent of criminal conduct then his supervisor should be put in prison for a long time.
The police unions are probably not prepared for this type of incident that is obviously carried out and excused daily. If the cop in this case is innocent of criminal conduct then his supervisor should be put in prison for a long time.
1
I've been beaten by the police, arrested, and then beaten some more. All because a cop didn't like my attitude - he thought I wasn't obsequious enough, I guess. I committed no crime, but offenses were made up on the way to the station, and those charges stuck, even though those charges were completely fabricated.
When a cop decides to target you for any kind of abuse, you are immediately playing in a rigged game, and you will almost always lose. It's very rare that anyone challenges an officer's version of events.
When a cop decides to target you for any kind of abuse, you are immediately playing in a rigged game, and you will almost always lose. It's very rare that anyone challenges an officer's version of events.
320
@No Chaser: "When a cop decides to target you for any kind of abuse, you are immediately playing in a rigged game, and you will almost always lose. It's very rare that anyone challenges an officer's version of events."
That's one thing we learned from the DoJ Civil Rights Division report about Ferguson, Mo.: the police there tend to believe [mistakenly] that the people they come into contact with MUST act with total deference to them and MAY NOT question or challenge anything they do. The report calls this behavior a "pattern of First Amendment violations".
From p. 25 of that report:
"In Ferguson, however, officers frequently make enforcement decisions based on what subjects say, or how they say it. Just as officers reflexively resort to arrest immediately upon noncompliance with their orders, whether lawful or not, they are quick to overreact to challenges and verbal slights. [...]
These accounts are drawn entirely from officers’ own descriptions, recorded in offense reports. That FPD officers believe criticism and insolence are grounds for arrest, and that supervisors have condoned such unconstitutional policing, reflects intolerance for even lawful opposition to the exercise of police authority. [...]"
And, with regard to filming the actions of police:
"[...]FPD officers also routinely infringe on the public’s First Amendment rights by preventing people from recording their activities. [...]"
That's one thing we learned from the DoJ Civil Rights Division report about Ferguson, Mo.: the police there tend to believe [mistakenly] that the people they come into contact with MUST act with total deference to them and MAY NOT question or challenge anything they do. The report calls this behavior a "pattern of First Amendment violations".
From p. 25 of that report:
"In Ferguson, however, officers frequently make enforcement decisions based on what subjects say, or how they say it. Just as officers reflexively resort to arrest immediately upon noncompliance with their orders, whether lawful or not, they are quick to overreact to challenges and verbal slights. [...]
These accounts are drawn entirely from officers’ own descriptions, recorded in offense reports. That FPD officers believe criticism and insolence are grounds for arrest, and that supervisors have condoned such unconstitutional policing, reflects intolerance for even lawful opposition to the exercise of police authority. [...]"
And, with regard to filming the actions of police:
"[...]FPD officers also routinely infringe on the public’s First Amendment rights by preventing people from recording their activities. [...]"
12
Police officers often lie on the witness stand. Many of us know it, but we act like they are to be trusted. Obviously, they aren't.
Two decades ago, when my son was an undergraduate at UNC-CH, he tried to buy beer with a fake ID. He ran. When he ran, he grabbed the ID from the officer's hand and touched the officer as he ran away. This was described as assault. He realized almost immediately how stupid his actions were and allowed himself to be arrested.
Still, the police officer felt it necessary to lie on the stand.
We see you, officers. We see you.
Two decades ago, when my son was an undergraduate at UNC-CH, he tried to buy beer with a fake ID. He ran. When he ran, he grabbed the ID from the officer's hand and touched the officer as he ran away. This was described as assault. He realized almost immediately how stupid his actions were and allowed himself to be arrested.
Still, the police officer felt it necessary to lie on the stand.
We see you, officers. We see you.
4
I believe you.
2
Recording street encounters and interrogations presents no downside to honest law enforcement. These interactions often have less to do with law than with police presumption that their violence is always
Recording police street encounters and interrogations cannot hurt but only help legitimate law enforcement. Recordings remind us that police are not themselves the law.
Recording police street encounters and interrogations cannot hurt but only help legitimate law enforcement. Recordings remind us that police are not themselves the law.
9
But the impromptu cell phone videos can in effect be "biased" because in many cases including this one, the initial violence prompts the onlooker to take out his phone and activate the camera but in the few seconds it takes to do that he has missed the suspect's actions and only captures the police response. By the cell phone users own account here, the cop and suspect "were on the ground going at it" but that wasn't captured on the video, only the police officers response. Had the initial struggle also been on the video, there would be a lot more sympathy for the cop. They would probably not be calling it "murder" but some lesser charge.
1
Have you not seen the video? What possible justification can the officer have for shooting someone in the back as he runs away? Even if the suspects resists, he or she does not deserve to be murdered. If the person is fleeing, then the officer's life is obviously not in danger.
1
Thank goodness that someone had the quick sense to record Mr Scott's murder and the courage to come forth with it. We need many more citizens doing the same thing in order to hold trigger happy cops accountable for the hundreds of citizens they kill each year.
18
" the recent spate of videos has raised uncomfortable questions about how much the American criminal justice system can rely on the accounts of police officers when the cameras are not rolling."
I am an older white woman and it has been a very long time since I have taken at face value police accounts of these incidents. Actually, I have come to assume the police are usually lying. Come to think of it, even when it's something less serious than a fatal incident like this, like your everyday casual encounters with the pollice, I just usually assume they are lying. The "well there's always a couple of bad apples" defense is ludicrous.
One of several things that surprised me about the Scott case was that, at least in the version of the video on the TImes website, the police officer, after he shot Mr. Scott, seemed to look at least once in the direction of the person with the camera yet continued shuffling around handcuffing a dead (or dying) man, tampering with evidence, and not providing any medical assistance. What on earth did he think the person with the camera was going to do? Was the person with the camera white, and perhaps the cop assumed no white person would be concerned with exonerating a black person?
I am an older white woman and it has been a very long time since I have taken at face value police accounts of these incidents. Actually, I have come to assume the police are usually lying. Come to think of it, even when it's something less serious than a fatal incident like this, like your everyday casual encounters with the pollice, I just usually assume they are lying. The "well there's always a couple of bad apples" defense is ludicrous.
One of several things that surprised me about the Scott case was that, at least in the version of the video on the TImes website, the police officer, after he shot Mr. Scott, seemed to look at least once in the direction of the person with the camera yet continued shuffling around handcuffing a dead (or dying) man, tampering with evidence, and not providing any medical assistance. What on earth did he think the person with the camera was going to do? Was the person with the camera white, and perhaps the cop assumed no white person would be concerned with exonerating a black person?
43
he had the phone positioned in such a way that it didn't appear that he was filming.and you're correct they do lunch quite often and when they say there's just a few bad apples those good cops who witnessed the bad apples doing wrong if they don't report it then they're bad apples too
2
The debate about police officers wearing video cameras should be over. (I'm guessing that a shifty officer can still find a way to drop a phony defiled weapon near the "perp" out of sight of a video camera....) Without video proof, it is the officer's word against whoever is testifying. We want and expect, and need police officers to tell the truth, but in the real world, some police officers lie. And because a grand jury is not a trial -for starters, there's right to no cross examination, grand jurors are not usually not in a position to discern the veracity of police officer testimony and typically find that there is reasonable cause that a crime was committed, based solely on the police officer's testimony.
When called upon, a judge can review the contents of a police video camera so that irrelevant or private information can be redacted. And any police officer who thinks that it's unfair to be required to wear a video cameras can quit the force.
When called upon, a judge can review the contents of a police video camera so that irrelevant or private information can be redacted. And any police officer who thinks that it's unfair to be required to wear a video cameras can quit the force.
9
While I support the use of cameras, I certainly do not believe that the large majority of police officers would commit cold-blooded murder as happened to Walter Scott. This officer knew what he did was wrong as he went to plant the Taser on Mr. Scott immediately to create a false evidence trail.
We have a society where the police are completely polarized from the communities they serve - and not just people of color but everyone. When you only see bad things every day it dehumanizes you and you end up in an "us" versus "them" syndrome. And it's worse than ever.
Police departments need to do more to combat this problem and communities need to get to know their officers. so much more can, and must, be done to turn things in the right direction. Neither the police or the community should be "the enemy" but nor can it be open season anymore without accountability.
We have a society where the police are completely polarized from the communities they serve - and not just people of color but everyone. When you only see bad things every day it dehumanizes you and you end up in an "us" versus "them" syndrome. And it's worse than ever.
Police departments need to do more to combat this problem and communities need to get to know their officers. so much more can, and must, be done to turn things in the right direction. Neither the police or the community should be "the enemy" but nor can it be open season anymore without accountability.
15
RMAN, I agree with you. I'll take it a step further though: I'd like see police officers across the country wearing cameras so that we can witness the danger that officers put themselves into each day.
I'm not defending the actions of this officer.
It's a shame that so many here are willing to cast a shadow on all law enforcement because of a few isolated incidents. (There were over 200,000 arrests last year in New York alone.)
The media is obligated to put this into perspective. Cameras on officers might give us a perspective to understand why force, sometimes deadly, is required.
I'm not defending the actions of this officer.
It's a shame that so many here are willing to cast a shadow on all law enforcement because of a few isolated incidents. (There were over 200,000 arrests last year in New York alone.)
The media is obligated to put this into perspective. Cameras on officers might give us a perspective to understand why force, sometimes deadly, is required.
1
On a jury a few years ago, there was one undeniable fact everyone in the deliberation room could agree on: the cop lied on the stand. It was just an accident that the lie became so obvious, there were no repercussions for the cop, and he never even knew we knew. But it was surreal how casual and convincing he'd been in his (almost completely fabricated) testimony against the defendant.
The problem with police is that they, like most people, are people. But for too long we've put them on a pedestal of authority. If 99% of them aren't terrible people, that leaves 10,000+ of them roaming the streets of the US with a license, well, to get away with murder.
Technology is one part of the solution. But for every act caught on tape (thanks, George Holliday) there will always be countless more that go unrecorded (or not, but we live in a surveillance state).
Maybe the main impact of technology will be to pop the quaint illusion of police as superheros, and end their impunity. Maybe one day we'll subject police to the same standards of justice applied to other people.
And maybe one day we'll even apply those same standards to the 20 million men in America who commit the crime of driving while black.
The problem with police is that they, like most people, are people. But for too long we've put them on a pedestal of authority. If 99% of them aren't terrible people, that leaves 10,000+ of them roaming the streets of the US with a license, well, to get away with murder.
Technology is one part of the solution. But for every act caught on tape (thanks, George Holliday) there will always be countless more that go unrecorded (or not, but we live in a surveillance state).
Maybe the main impact of technology will be to pop the quaint illusion of police as superheros, and end their impunity. Maybe one day we'll subject police to the same standards of justice applied to other people.
And maybe one day we'll even apply those same standards to the 20 million men in America who commit the crime of driving while black.
74
You bring up a scary point: as we do live in a surveillance state, how many videos of police brutality exist that were withheld by police departments? Mr. Scott's family is extremely lucky that the video was made by a civilian.
Law enforcement holds inherent possibilities for abuse: police corruption, payoffs, bribery, coercion. But the gravest potential for abuse comes with the ability to use lethal force. It is both a sad commentary on human nature and it plays into an Orwellian vision of an all-seeing Big Brother, but I am all for police officers wearing cameras. It won't be a perfect system--and certainly there will be abuses or gamings of the system--but it will likely provide irrefutable testimony in many, many incidents in the future.
23
Police in US killed more people in March 2015 than their counterparts in the UK have since 1900. Think about that. Something is seriously wrong with the police in this country.
323
That is sick. And Daily Kos wrote on it. Please NYT keep this link it is important for everyone to read http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/04/01/1374908/-American-police-killed...
1
I wonder why that is.
Hint: Maybe it's all the guns?
Hint: Maybe it's all the guns?
7
Yes, whay are those Anglo Saxons so prone toward reason and non-violence when ours are gunslingers? Stopping this violent insanity should start with our authorities. We should disarm the whole nation, as why should Americans fear their fellow Americans? Let's stop the paranoia.
1
I would hope the good cops are on the side of having cameras/videos because hopefully it would lay bare the facts as it did in this case. And if they act in good faith and according to the law, it could help make their lives that much easier. Being a decent cop must be an incredibly tough job and this man, Slager has made it more difficult for the decent ones.
R.I.P. Mr. Scott. Condolences to his family. Such a needless tragedy.
R.I.P. Mr. Scott. Condolences to his family. Such a needless tragedy.
28
Cameras on cops are treating the symptom, not the disease. The fundamental approach to policing in America must change. Over and over again we see displays of fear, aggression, and an entrenched "us versus them" embattled attitude in cops all over America.
Unfortunately, these same sad characteristics-- fear, aggression, us-versus-them-- seems to go hand in hand with our bombastic foreign policy, our surveillance state, and our military-security industrial apparatus in general... and it a broader sense, with our 'survival of the fittest' capitalism, our healthcare-for-cash culture, etc etc... so it is hard to see fundamental change happening in our lifetimes.
Unfortunately, these same sad characteristics-- fear, aggression, us-versus-them-- seems to go hand in hand with our bombastic foreign policy, our surveillance state, and our military-security industrial apparatus in general... and it a broader sense, with our 'survival of the fittest' capitalism, our healthcare-for-cash culture, etc etc... so it is hard to see fundamental change happening in our lifetimes.
274
Let's start a third political party based on your second paragraph. Well said.
4
Very accurate! Aggression and "us vs. them" is our national political culture too. "Survival of the fittest" capitalism ethos has infected everything.
6
No actually, the possibility of cell phone videos will do a good job of keeping police wary of choosing "shoot first" methodologies.
1
There are several problems with the promotion of citizen oversight of police officers and the call for officers to be equipped with cameras. One--citizens shouldn't have to monitor the behavior of the police. They are supposed to hold a position of public trust. If we can't trust the very people we are supposed to trust, then THAT is the problem, not a lack of surveillance of officers' conduct. Two--we assume that the cameras worn by police will be tamper-proof. Virtually nothing is tamper resistant, and it is common knowledge by this point that the blue wall of silence is often indomitable.
Sure, let's attach monitors to police officers. But let's also admit that in doing so we are implicitly stating that we cannot trust our officers. This being the case, a more rigorous screening and training process needs to be designed and implemented right away. Until we have a higher caliber of individuals drawn to law enforcement, those enlisting to enforce the law will continually bend it to their will.
Sure, let's attach monitors to police officers. But let's also admit that in doing so we are implicitly stating that we cannot trust our officers. This being the case, a more rigorous screening and training process needs to be designed and implemented right away. Until we have a higher caliber of individuals drawn to law enforcement, those enlisting to enforce the law will continually bend it to their will.
32
Well stated. I would add that reliance on citizen videos may not hold as much promise as hoped. If an encounter with a citizen/officer is underway, having an untrained person filming may not always provide the record sought, is not entirely free from distortion, and may court danger.
1
Agreed. Cameras worn by officers are just a poor prophylactic measure that'll be applied far too late in the process.
The hue and cry for body-worn cameras is just a knee jerk reaction to a problem with deeper roots. As you and other commenters note, the crux of the problem lies in the relatively unsophisticated manner in which we recruit police officers and, once chosen, how we train them.
The solution thus requires profound reformations of the processes we use to hire and train officers. We need to be more discriminating about the psychology and character of the individuals we chose, and more explicit and scrupulous in how we instruct them to do the job.
No doubt the public's love affair with cell phone cameras and similarly equipped portable devices leaves most with the impression that technology is the answer. But it's not because it's subject to inadvertent human error and purposeful tampering.
Like everything else the police do in the context of citizen encounters, they'll control the filming and functionality of the cameras to their advantage. Put more succinctly, they'll figure out how to game them just like they routinely game everything else that serves as a check on their broad discretion during street encounters.
As you noted, the clamor for body cameras is an admission that police officers can't be trusted. Cameras are no panacea. We need better hiring and training so that fundamentally different people begin to populate the ranks of this profession.
The hue and cry for body-worn cameras is just a knee jerk reaction to a problem with deeper roots. As you and other commenters note, the crux of the problem lies in the relatively unsophisticated manner in which we recruit police officers and, once chosen, how we train them.
The solution thus requires profound reformations of the processes we use to hire and train officers. We need to be more discriminating about the psychology and character of the individuals we chose, and more explicit and scrupulous in how we instruct them to do the job.
No doubt the public's love affair with cell phone cameras and similarly equipped portable devices leaves most with the impression that technology is the answer. But it's not because it's subject to inadvertent human error and purposeful tampering.
Like everything else the police do in the context of citizen encounters, they'll control the filming and functionality of the cameras to their advantage. Put more succinctly, they'll figure out how to game them just like they routinely game everything else that serves as a check on their broad discretion during street encounters.
As you noted, the clamor for body cameras is an admission that police officers can't be trusted. Cameras are no panacea. We need better hiring and training so that fundamentally different people begin to populate the ranks of this profession.
6
Everything you say is 100% reasonable but sorry it is not practical in the real world. Hiring better officers sounds great but we know that is not how things work with civil servants.
1
Police should not shoot anyone, should not even be holding the gun, except in very extraordinary circumstances. (And it is not kegal in most palces yto shoot to stop a fleeing suspect.)
But they have gotten into the habit of using more force than is warranted.
They go for the gun right away.
Maybe this is because so many are veterans of recent wars, where anybody around may be a danger. A snapped twig may be your last warning--- turn and fire or die.
But people with this conditioning should not be hired to patrol our cities.
The residents are not the enemy.
But they have gotten into the habit of using more force than is warranted.
They go for the gun right away.
Maybe this is because so many are veterans of recent wars, where anybody around may be a danger. A snapped twig may be your last warning--- turn and fire or die.
But people with this conditioning should not be hired to patrol our cities.
The residents are not the enemy.
69
This shooting ends the camera debate.
Something else that's badly needed is national reporting on police shootings. We need more detail on these incidents.
Something else that's badly needed is national reporting on police shootings. We need more detail on these incidents.
138
As of now, police department are not required to report how many people they have shot each year/ Why? "They are only doing their job" What? by shooting black people?
4
It's an outrage that there is so little data here. This murder is horrifying. Is it rampant? Can we detect the likelihood of an officer to use excessive force based on his policing history? We need information.
15
police departments are supposed to collect information about shooting deaths and report them to the FBI. The law has been ignored. Tells you a lot about the system.
5
There really is no debate. Only a complete fool would trust the police to tell the truth in cases like this without hard video and audio evidence. This is just another reflection of the culture of arrogance that permeates law enforcement. We have now had hundreds of exonerations of people falsely convicted and sentenced to the death penalty. Yet prosecutors continue to fight tooth and nail to prevent these cases from being reopened. Even though it is abundantly clear that in many cases evidence was coerced, fabricated, and planted, and the prosecutors acted with extreme malice, no prosecutor has been held accountable. Of course the police are going to flout the rights of poor and politically powerless suspects with impunity.
175
That's because the law now cares more about the score not the truth.
1
The only thing we know for sure is that Officer Slager is a murderer and a liar and the officers that showed up at the scene of the murder are liars as well. We do not know anything about any other killings as they are in no way linked to this one or this officer. We need more than just police video but a clear audio and a system that cannot be tampered with.
We clearly need national minimum hiring criteria, bi-annual assessments of the mental and emotional health of individual officers and a universal training program that teaches policemen to police not to draw a gun and start shooting.
We clearly need national minimum hiring criteria, bi-annual assessments of the mental and emotional health of individual officers and a universal training program that teaches policemen to police not to draw a gun and start shooting.
103
What evidence do you have that other cops lied?
2
Cops are not unusually ethical or moral people. They have a job that requires them to make a lot of decisions about other citizens behavior, but they are in most ways as ordinary as the citizens upon whom they enforce the law. The old saying, "power corrupts" applies to people in general including cops. A uniform and a badge and a gun add up to serious power.
We have a number of privileged groups of workers in America, doctors come to mind. However, doctors go through a very rigorous selection process for many years, and yet there are irresponsible doctors. It can be fairly presumed there are many irresponsible cops. Video cameras on cops is a start. What needs to change is the deference given to these average men with above average power.
We have a number of privileged groups of workers in America, doctors come to mind. However, doctors go through a very rigorous selection process for many years, and yet there are irresponsible doctors. It can be fairly presumed there are many irresponsible cops. Video cameras on cops is a start. What needs to change is the deference given to these average men with above average power.
101
When irresponsible doctors are caught, there are a bunch of steps taken to ensure they cannot continue to cause problems - licenses are revoked, malpractice awards are paid out, and in really egregious cases criminal charges are filed. Same for irresponsible civil engineers, irresponsible accountants, and even (although this seems hard to believe) irresponsible lawyers. That is why we are willing to trust doctors, civil engineers, and lawyers with people's lives.
Irresponsible cops need to be treated the same way - no more working as a police officer in any jurisdiction, pay out damages to those harmed by their actions, and criminal charges as the situation warrants. And we need to be vigilantly looking for irresponsible cops, because 1 irresponsible cop hurts the credibility of all cops.
Irresponsible cops need to be treated the same way - no more working as a police officer in any jurisdiction, pay out damages to those harmed by their actions, and criminal charges as the situation warrants. And we need to be vigilantly looking for irresponsible cops, because 1 irresponsible cop hurts the credibility of all cops.
3
In fact most lousy doctors just carry on. Few ever see discipline, we are dependent on the selection process.
Mr. Santana who took the video of the murder of Walter Scott made a very subtle point in an interview. He said he is from the Dominican Republic, and that citizens of the Dominican Republic and other countries have always looked up to the United States. He expressed his disappointment in the lack of integrity of what has happened. He also believes that if he had not come forth with the video - this officer would have gone on his merry way.
Why? Because he also read the police report and he even spoke to police about the incident. Very interesting.
Is this exemplary then of justice in the United States?
Sad if this is what the United States represents; after all, we are part of the whole world, not just an little far off island. A very upsetting and embarrassing situation. For shame.
Why? Because he also read the police report and he even spoke to police about the incident. Very interesting.
Is this exemplary then of justice in the United States?
Sad if this is what the United States represents; after all, we are part of the whole world, not just an little far off island. A very upsetting and embarrassing situation. For shame.
325
We live in a time when a black president is racially stereotyped daily by tea party nuts and many states are passing voter restriction laws aimed directly, not only at democracy, but at black voters. The GOP candidates for president are either silent about these laws or support them, at least one pretending he is a member of an ethnic minority group to pander for its votes...diminishing any thoughts about their intelligence on the part of some. Everywhere, but particularly in the south, which is looking more and more like the Old South in many ways, a key motivation for many hate groups is white empowerment. So there is probably not a lot new about a white cop shooting a black man stopped for a traffic violation in the back. That's all the bad news, and it could get worse. The good news is that the mayor and police chief of this South Carolina town got right out front and didn't pull a Ferguson shuck and jive. A citizen, who himself could have been shot, was a model of social responsibility, and the national media is coming out of its slumber to start putting two and two together about this form of hate crime. But on a sad note, where are our political leaders? Obama mentions this and he is accused by some of playing the race card. Bobby Jindal probably thinks North Charleston is a no visit zone protected by fearless cops from Sharia law. Rand Paul has six rotating positions (but don't ask him about them), and Ted Cruz will blame the whole event on Big Government.
231
WE know police lie. We know of the "blue wall" what else do we need before we force police to behave and act like professionals instead of like criminals.
187
In NYC the PBA is the problem and has been for decades. From the 1988 Tompkins Sq. Park riots, mostly rioting done by cops on innocent bystanders to the Staten Island murder of a man pedaling loose cigarettes.. A mayor who talked tough about cops then backing down when confronted by the PBA.. They own the mayor's office and city council, most large cities also suffer from rogue police unions holding their cities hostage if they don't get their way.
21
Just about EVERYTHING that is broken in this country can be summed up by the still image showing the black man running away from an officer who is taking aim at him, about to kill him IN COLD BLOOD. We put too much trust in our police officers (WHY should they EVER resist body cams?), we love our guns too much and we accept strong class and race divisions to flourish in many parts of this country. That still photo.....it's simply beyond sickening .
339
People recording these kinds of incidents had better be careful they don't wind up victims, too.
118
Mr. Santana who shot the film was so afriad that he thought about deleting this information. He went to the police station to inform them he has the footage and it is different from the police report. The police want him to wait for a long time in the police station. He sensed the danger of being retain in the police station, and left and turned this video to the news media instead. He is a hero
20
The young man who recorded the video was interviewed on MSN; he was scared for his life. And he still is.
1
Community policing doesn't require a gun. This 'excessive force', which most everyone just thinks of as brutality and murder of young black men, could cease. We pay the police to do their work. I don't want to be paying for this. They need to figure out a more responsible way to manage their lethal weapons instead of having every cop carrying to the hilt.
120
"Chris Fialko, a criminal defense lawyer in Charlotte, N.C., said that while the ubiquity of video had changed the dynamic between police and citizens, jurors still view police officers as credible, even when faced with incriminating video."
Really? NO, not really! I am hard put to dream up an excuse for the behavior of this police officer on this video. This is not Michael Brown all over again!! No way was this man running away a threat!!
Support the police when they are right. They shouldn't have to do their jobs in fear of thugs. But come down on them hard when they behave like this, because they are doing it supposedly in my name!!
Really? NO, not really! I am hard put to dream up an excuse for the behavior of this police officer on this video. This is not Michael Brown all over again!! No way was this man running away a threat!!
Support the police when they are right. They shouldn't have to do their jobs in fear of thugs. But come down on them hard when they behave like this, because they are doing it supposedly in my name!!
144
My recent jury duty experience (Newark) for a murder trial was very enlightening on this subject. As there were to be a number of police witnesses potential jurors were weeded out first via a questionnaire that addressed the veracity of a police officer vs. a citizen, among other things. I was questioned further on this issue by the judge in a sidebar as I had indicated I would not automatically believe the police instead of a private citizen. I was rejected for the jury on this basis and came to the conclusion that the jurors that were seated for this trial would have had to satisfy the judge and the prosecutor that they held "favorable" feelings about the police. If I'm correct, ask yourself how fair that is to the defendant.
50
Well in fact if you did not know what had gone on, you could not say what you say from the video alone, because officers are allowed to and do shoot fleeing felons if they are presenting a danger to the public. So no it's not hard to dream up an excuse, not hard at all. It just so happens we know this man was not a dangerous person fleeing a felony.
2
Yes, white jurors would believe white LEOs are credible when an unarmed black man is killed by a white LEO and why would that be given our sad history? Is that justice or something else, like prejudice? Even if Walter Scott were white would that make this shooting any more justifiable and less of a human rights violation?
2
The interactions of the police and the public would benefit in two ways. 1. The police officer would be held responsible for his actions. 2. The public would understand that they are being filmed and in most cases would act appropriately.
50
@Richard- then why such a backlash against cameras in public places? Red light traffic cameras? I just don't get the second part of your reasoning. Sounds like they(public) want to get away with breaking the law.
1
No. Sometimes the "public" can be or act in loud and obnoxious in your face ways that are not breaking the law. I would think that seeing they were being filmed may temper their response. Who wants to look foolish on camera. I am writing about shoulder or police patrol car cameras.
5
Dear Lou Andrews,
I have visited countries that have installed cameras in public spaces and they are all either police states or third world theocracies. I guess monitoring people just going about their day as individuals in the public space strikes us Americans as undemocratic (giving up our freedom to picnic in a park, play with our kids, walk our dog on the street without constant surveillance). We fight costly wars abroad and get young Americans killed to protect our right to live freely. Perhaps that is why is is some resistance to giving up these freedoms so easily and for only some speculative benefit.
However, after seeing the video of such police brutality and hearing about the accounts of police interactions from many of my African American friends, I guess more surveillance is the way our country should go-- in order to protect us from ourselves, not necessarily a terrorist we imagine will come from abroad among our midst.
I have visited countries that have installed cameras in public spaces and they are all either police states or third world theocracies. I guess monitoring people just going about their day as individuals in the public space strikes us Americans as undemocratic (giving up our freedom to picnic in a park, play with our kids, walk our dog on the street without constant surveillance). We fight costly wars abroad and get young Americans killed to protect our right to live freely. Perhaps that is why is is some resistance to giving up these freedoms so easily and for only some speculative benefit.
However, after seeing the video of such police brutality and hearing about the accounts of police interactions from many of my African American friends, I guess more surveillance is the way our country should go-- in order to protect us from ourselves, not necessarily a terrorist we imagine will come from abroad among our midst.
The man ran before he was threatened by Officer Slager, and I have to wonder why if the only concern was a child support warrant. Surely running from a White South Carolina Cop, when one has black skin, has to be one of life's riskier actions, regardless the situation. A black man of 50 living in the south had to know that petting a rattlesnake would be a minor risk by comparison. So it begs the question, why did Mr. Scott run ?
Then I notice that before opening fire on Mr. Scott there was no warning yelled out, or warning shot in the air to grab the man's attention to danger.
It is just hard to believe that any man died after a minor traffic stop, even in South Carolina.