It's not clear they represented any terrorist organisation. certainly none have come out in support of them. So if he dies i don't expect much to come of the threatened martyrdom. So hang him high and stop worrying about this murderer.
1
"A close examination would shed light on the lure of terrorism, which gives the disenfranchised a chance to become part of something greater."
Mr. Tsarnaev and his brother killed and maimed innocent people because they were disenfranchised?
I have not been to Chechnya, but I presume that Boston, Massachusetts is overall a nicer place to live. And wasn’t Dzhokhar Tsarnaev attending college? The Rolling Stone article that “contributed to the mythology” of the younger Tsarnaev portrayed him as fun loving with many friends. He had more options to becoming “something greater” than detonating bombs at a world renowned sporting event.
We, and I mean the US, the west, the world, have zero responsibility for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev’s decision to kill.
Mr. Tsarnaev and his brother killed and maimed innocent people because they were disenfranchised?
I have not been to Chechnya, but I presume that Boston, Massachusetts is overall a nicer place to live. And wasn’t Dzhokhar Tsarnaev attending college? The Rolling Stone article that “contributed to the mythology” of the younger Tsarnaev portrayed him as fun loving with many friends. He had more options to becoming “something greater” than detonating bombs at a world renowned sporting event.
We, and I mean the US, the west, the world, have zero responsibility for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev’s decision to kill.
9
The Russians recorded a call of the mother discussing jihad with Tamerlan. The family had a history of blaming the US when everything didn't go perfectly for them. The asylum, citizenship, college scholarship and welfare benefits the Tsarnaev family received...just weren't enough. Four out of the five family members have engaged in criminal acts while in the US and all have expressed anger, instead of remorse, when they are caught. The defiance on the mother's face, during a press conference says it all.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/04/28/179611079/tamerlan-tsarna...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzhokhar_and_Tamerlan_Tsarnaev
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/04/28/179611079/tamerlan-tsarna...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzhokhar_and_Tamerlan_Tsarnaev
11
Speaking of unanswered questions, what role did Tamerlan Tsarnaev's wife play in the bombing? It is hard to believe she had no knowledge of her husband's plans, yet she seems to have a free pass.
6
I don't agree that the war on terror has any relevance even sociologically to the sickening and depraved bombing and even if it did, it is like saying the invasion of Normandy in 1944 must be examined to determine its relevance to the German offensive known as the Battle of the Bulge.
I really don't see the purpose either of trying to second-guess the FBI or other agencies. Unfortunately in a free society, it is all too easy to stay under the radar and cause depraved acts undetected.
The people who are responsible for the heinous bombing are the dead brother and the survivor now convicted of his role in it. Period.
I really don't see the purpose either of trying to second-guess the FBI or other agencies. Unfortunately in a free society, it is all too easy to stay under the radar and cause depraved acts undetected.
The people who are responsible for the heinous bombing are the dead brother and the survivor now convicted of his role in it. Period.
1
I'm afraid that the real bombing motivation for Tsarnaev brother's was not religious as most of people may think. I shall compare their behavior as mentally disturbed responses for disenfranchising, prejudice, discrimination, poverty, bullying, etc. Just remember some mass murdering reports as Columbine, Newtown, Virginia Tech, the Brazilian “Realengo killing” (Rio de Janeiro-Brazil 2010), the ‘Charlie Hebdo’ incident in Paris and – recently – the German Wings ‘kamikaze pilot’. We might be worried about why our civilization influenced those psycho behaviors. The affluent USA culture promotes everyday violence and killings trough films, cartoons, literature and social relations. It’s time to reflect deeply about this.
4
The court sketch that makes the defendant look like a little devil is disturbing. Do we really have to infantilize the public with this sort of depiction? It seems so stupid.
4
Though it IS interesting that the topic of exactly where the 2 bombs were constructed was never discussed at the trial, the rest of this editorial was not compelling. We know that disenfranchised younger people in any culture can become attracted to extremest factions. That is as true in the USA as anywhere else. That particular topic is not a mystery that needs lots of explication Ms Gessen. We see it in the news worldwide at least once a month. I am not sure what you are trying to say except perhaps you are trying to suggest there is an underlying conspiracy.
3
Compared to other parts of the world, USA is virtually terrorist free for many reasons. Not COMPLETELY free, of course. This 'dastardly' killing by two brothers was a success for the terrorists in a general sense but questions like 'where were the explosive devices built' are not important. Obviously, they were built somewhere since they exploded and killed innocent bystanders.
Unfortunately, some events are random events and will always take place albeit rarely.
The issue is now: should this young man be executed? I do NOT think so, he probably should have been shot like his older brother instead of arrested but it is demeaning to all of us to kill in the name of justice. In any case, this is going to be decided by the jury and the record indicates that death rows are actually not death rows in many states, perhaps most notably here in California.
Unfortunately, some events are random events and will always take place albeit rarely.
The issue is now: should this young man be executed? I do NOT think so, he probably should have been shot like his older brother instead of arrested but it is demeaning to all of us to kill in the name of justice. In any case, this is going to be decided by the jury and the record indicates that death rows are actually not death rows in many states, perhaps most notably here in California.
4
If police and prosecutors were directed to find the truth, we would have fewer false convictions and fewer guilty persons walking the street.
3
I don't think we need to change our justice system because a criminal or terrorist is suicidal. As long as one is mentally competent, then they deserve the punishment that fits the crime.
2
Its not hard to make a pipe bomb out of pressure cooker - what's amazing to me is that we don't have more of these kinds of bombs going off.
2
I'm against the death penalty simply because too much time is wasted from the time sentence is pronounced until the time the actual execution takes place. Most of us will probably be dead and buried by the time an elderly Dzhokar Tsarnaev is finally strapped down to a table awaiting the lethal injection. It's probably a better solution to simply lock him up, isolate him from the general inmate population, and just throw away the key.
Tsarnaevs weren't "disinfranchised." They had all the rights of other U.S. citizens and residents of Massachusetts. They could vote, exercise free speech, and enjoy religious liberty. The younger brother was even going to college and apparently had friends. There is simply no political, economic, social, religious or intellectual excuse for intentionally killing and maiming innocent people including children.
20
DzhokharTsarnaev is a victim. He is a victim of society. Like a feather in the wind, he is a young and helpless victim of the most powerful, most unpredictable and most uncontrollable forces which cruelly and mercilessly tossed him in every direction.
Soon, however, society, through its flawed system of justice, will put him to death, either an instant death by execution, or a gradual death by a life behind bars without parole for years.
Yet, like all young men and women of society who are tossed into life’s uncontrollable winds, DzhokharTsarnaev is society’s son. He is America’s son. He is our son.
He deserves our understanding, our forgiveness and our rehabilitation.
These are the earmarks of a civilized and noble society. They should be ours.
Soon, however, society, through its flawed system of justice, will put him to death, either an instant death by execution, or a gradual death by a life behind bars without parole for years.
Yet, like all young men and women of society who are tossed into life’s uncontrollable winds, DzhokharTsarnaev is society’s son. He is America’s son. He is our son.
He deserves our understanding, our forgiveness and our rehabilitation.
These are the earmarks of a civilized and noble society. They should be ours.
5
No, he is predator. A predator who stole joy, life, hope and happiness from innocent people. He is cynical, corrupt and callous. A noble society protects the innocents from the calculating and cowardly criminals who would wish to do them harm.
10
If these brothers were not Muslims, they would never have been labeled terrorists at all. They would have been seen as adolescent mass murders, like the Columbine and West Va cases, who had an irrational grudge against the world because they were young and alienated. Lock them up or kill them, it makes no difference to me. But let's not use this as another reason to fear an alleged vast Muslim conspiracy.
4
If one wishes to fathom the origins of why the Tsarnaev brothers turned out as they did the place to begin looking is at his mother Zubeidat, and father Anzor.
Anzor's brother, Ruslan, publicly stated that " Anzor lost control over that family some time ago." The mother Zubeidat, known for her histrionic performances before TV cameras has previously been arrested for shop lifting and vehemently insists that her perfect sons are victims of an FBI conspiracy to generate hatred against Muslims. At no point do the parents take the slightest responsibility for their incompetent parenting, insisting that the entire event is a fabrication to frame their perfect sons.
Both Anzor and Zubeidat have repeatedly made declarations about their sons that are thoroughly delusional. If pursuing the truth of how the brothers went off the rails, then one must begin by taking a cold, hard look at the 'values' instilled in them by their parents.
Anzor's brother, Ruslan, publicly stated that " Anzor lost control over that family some time ago." The mother Zubeidat, known for her histrionic performances before TV cameras has previously been arrested for shop lifting and vehemently insists that her perfect sons are victims of an FBI conspiracy to generate hatred against Muslims. At no point do the parents take the slightest responsibility for their incompetent parenting, insisting that the entire event is a fabrication to frame their perfect sons.
Both Anzor and Zubeidat have repeatedly made declarations about their sons that are thoroughly delusional. If pursuing the truth of how the brothers went off the rails, then one must begin by taking a cold, hard look at the 'values' instilled in them by their parents.
7
It is ironic with all of the death penalty concerns about the convicted Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. Texas is stockpiling lethal injection drugs. Utah is bringing back firing squads. Oklahoma is considering dusting off the gas chamber. Hundreds have met their ends by these and other states with far less evidence than poor Dzhokhar. What is fair? Stop the madness and end capital punishment. Perhaps the Supreme Court is ready to do that. Maybe it will be a debate item for the 2016 election. If our legal system, politicians, and society chooses to retain capital punishment, Dzhokhar Tsarnanaev should join the nameless others facing needles, gas and bullets in the name of justice.
1
You want answers read John Grisham. This is real life and all the time and money in the world doesn't let you look into someone else's soul. This is about guilt or innocence and this person is guilty.
Of course the death penalty thing is almost as big a waste. The Florence ADX facility seems capable of doing what is necessary.
Of course the death penalty thing is almost as big a waste. The Florence ADX facility seems capable of doing what is necessary.
This op-ed raises the question that has existed since 9/11 about whether it is better to pursue these cases through the military and intelligence systems or through the criminal justice system. They serve different purposes, so it seems unrealistic to expect that one system will serve the purposes of the other. I agree that these larger questions are important in order to understand and deal with terrorism. But if the author doesn't think "the war on terror" has been helpful, it's hard to understand why she would think a criminal trial would be better able to address these larger issues.
Who's to say that the information about the origins of the bombs and any accomplices is not already known or under investigation? I wonder how relevant these pieces are to sentencing him.
1
You mean answers to questions like "what were they thinking?"
Does it matter?
And if it matters at this late date, how?
Does it matter?
And if it matters at this late date, how?
4
It doesn't matter, you are absolutely right. And the use of the word "disenfranchised" in this article is astonishing. I am amazed at continually reading articles of this ilk in the NYT, in my view they reflect a socio-political perspective that is at odds not just with actual history - the war on terror was a civilized society's response to a domestic attack which exceeded even the Pearl Harbor outrage - but with common sense.
6
the decision to seek the death penalty in this horrific case is an example of political correctness and short-sightedness run amok. why martyr the defendant to a billion people, worldwide?
life without parole is the rational outcome here. if the government is simply afraid of disposing of the case without allowing for community catharsis, well, the community has had its catharsis. unless, of course, we model our justice system after that in iran, saudi arabia, etc.--sharia law.
life without parole is the rational outcome here. if the government is simply afraid of disposing of the case without allowing for community catharsis, well, the community has had its catharsis. unless, of course, we model our justice system after that in iran, saudi arabia, etc.--sharia law.
3
I want to thank Ms Gessen for her excellent anaylis of the deeper and more troubling questions about that horrible day. She has asked many of the same questions I have asked myself. Once again, like 9/11 there were major intelligence failures. For all of our surveillance of American citizens going about our daily lives, Homeland Security and the NSA missed the boat. Why has no one investiaged this? Our Congress people who've had mulitple investigations of Bengazi but not a single inquiry regarding this tragedy.
As for the fate of Mr. Tsarnaev I prefer to see him get life in prision. He is young and will have many years to conteplate the great harm he has done. I do not want to see him be made a martyr to his cause.
As for the fate of Mr. Tsarnaev I prefer to see him get life in prision. He is young and will have many years to conteplate the great harm he has done. I do not want to see him be made a martyr to his cause.
4
I respect Ms Gessen's opinions in the areas she addresses most frequently: politics and social issues in Russia, and LGBT issues. In this case, she has answered the question implicit in the headline of her column: the trial wasn't, isn't, and shouldn't be about "what [the public] needs and wants most: the fullest possible understanding of what happened". As Justice Holmes (who must be getting on in years, like, about 175 of them) points out, the trial is about guilt or innocence. Job done: he's guilty on all counts. Now comes sentencing.
Ms Gessen and many others care about the "lure of terrorism", or how the "war on terrorism" may have contributed to mythos of Islamic terrorism, but none of that matters one whit in the trial of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. He was found guilty on every count by a jury of 12 peers before the law. That's what criminal trials are for. Ms Gessen and others who share her curiosity must look elsewhere for their answers.
Ms Gessen and many others care about the "lure of terrorism", or how the "war on terrorism" may have contributed to mythos of Islamic terrorism, but none of that matters one whit in the trial of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. He was found guilty on every count by a jury of 12 peers before the law. That's what criminal trials are for. Ms Gessen and others who share her curiosity must look elsewhere for their answers.
8
If anybody deserves the death penalty, it is calculated killers like the Boston Bomber or the Oklahoma City Bomber or killers for hire.
It is about more than deserving it. It is about us too, including the many and varied costs to us.
It is now clear that the Oklahoma City Bomber died with secret untold. The government was so anxious to kill him they refused to talk with him when he offered, for fear what he said might cause delay in killing him.
Now we hear that the Boston Bomber holds secrets too. Someone helped make those bombs. We don't know who, and we don't even know where it was done except that it wasn't any of the places we know about. The intense desire to kill him may let go free the bomb maker.
Killers for hire are another example. They know who hired them. They often know of more killings than we can prove. That isn't true of all, but it has proven true of many.
When we kill them, we silence them. Dead men tell no tales. The other guilty parties could hope for no more.
It is about more than deserving it. It is about us too, including the many and varied costs to us.
It is now clear that the Oklahoma City Bomber died with secret untold. The government was so anxious to kill him they refused to talk with him when he offered, for fear what he said might cause delay in killing him.
Now we hear that the Boston Bomber holds secrets too. Someone helped make those bombs. We don't know who, and we don't even know where it was done except that it wasn't any of the places we know about. The intense desire to kill him may let go free the bomb maker.
Killers for hire are another example. They know who hired them. They often know of more killings than we can prove. That isn't true of all, but it has proven true of many.
When we kill them, we silence them. Dead men tell no tales. The other guilty parties could hope for no more.
3
Few had larger accounts to give of the character of those who govern us than Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein.
1
Answers? Masha, what do you not understand about evil? I do not believe in capital punishment, so best we give him 17 consecutive life sentences and ship him off to the super max facility in Colorado. Case closed, and no one should waste any more 'ink' on this person. Bound for Heaven? Only his God knows.
4
A trail is about guilt and innocence. It is not an inquiry into why or even how, except to the extent is concerns guilt or innocence.
5
The conspiracy theorist in me wonders about the lack of knowledge as to the whereabouts of the manufacturing of the bombs and the very thin amount of information concerning the radicalization, whether self-inflicted or from an outside influence, of the brothers. Might one infer or conjure that instruments of U.S. intelligence/security agencies are in possession of information or hard evidence that might answer these questions of bomb manufacture and radicalization and deem the disclosure of such information, even as part of this trial murder trial, would be prejudicial or detrimental in some other form to an ongoing investigation? Or...could these agencies have been aware at some stage of the plot these brothers were carrying out, made an evaluation and decision to let the plot proceed as a means to catch a larger target certain that the plot could be thwarted before an bombing happened...an evaluation/decision that went tragically wrong?
1
I think we are closer to the truth than this writer likes to think. Where the bombs were actually made isn't a step toward "Truth" - nailing down every single practical factoid isn't necessary to understand "what happened". We know "what happened". Before the 9/11 attack, the FBI and CIA had separate chunks of information that, had they connected the dots cooperatively instead of lingering in their separate universes, might have helped prevent the attack. But - we still know what happened.
D. Tsarnaev made no secret of his guilt to his own defense and has shown absolutely no remorse for his actions. The "fullest possible understanding" is not really necessary in such a case, except to those who wish to sell books by keeping a particular narrative alive - e.g., that we don't really know what happened. We do.
As to whether the young man deserves death or life in prison - his life is pretty much over either way. The lawyers who want to save his life don't wish to do so because they think he is a worthy human being but because they are ideologically opposed to the death penalty, a value they have every right to support.
There is a real danger that their remorseless client will radicalize others in prison and so manage to murder again - an ironic outcome of thwarting the death penalty but I suspect lost on legal ideologues. That's the problem with ideology: it's remorseless no matter which side it emanates from. And ideology is "what happened" here. The rest is just detail.
D. Tsarnaev made no secret of his guilt to his own defense and has shown absolutely no remorse for his actions. The "fullest possible understanding" is not really necessary in such a case, except to those who wish to sell books by keeping a particular narrative alive - e.g., that we don't really know what happened. We do.
As to whether the young man deserves death or life in prison - his life is pretty much over either way. The lawyers who want to save his life don't wish to do so because they think he is a worthy human being but because they are ideologically opposed to the death penalty, a value they have every right to support.
There is a real danger that their remorseless client will radicalize others in prison and so manage to murder again - an ironic outcome of thwarting the death penalty but I suspect lost on legal ideologues. That's the problem with ideology: it's remorseless no matter which side it emanates from. And ideology is "what happened" here. The rest is just detail.
4
No, Djokar will be isolated in Supermax, and he will come to long for medically assisted suicide.
"The terrorists are the Americans and everyone knows it. My son is the best of the best. I embrace everyone and thank you!” --Zubeidat Tsarnaeva, mother of the Boston bombers
Why does the author of this article not mention the parents of Dzhokhar and Tamerlan Tsarnaev as she ponders where they might have been radicalized? It is well documented that both parents had soured on the U.S. and blamed the country that was trying to give them a leg up for their family's woes. The mother, for one, seems totally unhinged. It's clear to me that that's where their disaffection originated.
Why does the author of this article not mention the parents of Dzhokhar and Tamerlan Tsarnaev as she ponders where they might have been radicalized? It is well documented that both parents had soured on the U.S. and blamed the country that was trying to give them a leg up for their family's woes. The mother, for one, seems totally unhinged. It's clear to me that that's where their disaffection originated.
17
Yeah I know about federal vs state - but is this guy more deserving of the death penalty than Whitey Bulger, or his hitman of choice John Matarano- who is a free man today. Is it in our interest to make this guy a martyr?
1
There are many loose ends in this saga that the public needs to know about. What was the backstory on the young man who got killed by the FBI in Florida on the verge of them "discovering" his connection to the three murders in Boston, in which Tamerlan Tsarnaev was supposedly a prime suspect? It seemed at the time an awful lot like a convenient quashing of the real truth behind the brothers' actions, and whatever support network that propelled them. And then it totally disappeared from the news. I am not a death penalty supporter by any stretch, but I would be very concerned about the capacity of a self-radicalized, charismatic jihadist to radicalize whomever is in contact with him even in a maximum security prison. His behavior during the trial screams sociopath. Can we be guaranteed that he will have only such human contact as is absolutely essential, and be given long hours and therapy to ponder what he did, until such time as he develops a social conscience? I hope he is delegated to such a facility, if he is not sentenced to death.
1
I think these are good questions but certainly not expected to come out in a criminal trial. I think its hard to argue that enough truth is available for a reasonable person to conclude without difficulty that justice is being served. I don't much care if he lives or dies, frankly. As for the rest, isn't that for the investigative journalists to find out?
1
Who says an American criminal trial is not designed to look for truth? That's exactly what it is designed to do. Its the search for truth that better enables a jury to "assess guilt." Perhaps the reason the trial failed to answer the questions posed by this piece is because the subject matter of those questions were not necessarily relevant to the defendant's guilt.
3
"Arguably, they shouldn’t have been" Actually, it is not arguable. As the author immediately points out, the function of the criminal justice system is to assess guilt, not to investigate. The adverb here should have been "Admittedly".
3
How anyone could "feel sorry" for him is unimaginable.
6
I think there is a line here...I can't say I feel sorry for this man, but I will say that I am profoundly sad about his actions and where they led him. I've raised several children to adulthood. Something I've observed many times in my years as a mother is the bizarre disconnect young people sometimes have between their actions and the results. In my experience, this isn't because parents haven't taught them; it's something weird around the brain and maturity. In this case, we're talking about unspeakable acts that resulted in death and profound injury, which is the most serious form of disconnect. Still, I can't help but wonder if this young man will someday have a moment when he realizes just how horrible his actions were. To be so young and do something so heinous, and then to have to live with that many times beyond his years so far seems like the most terrible of punishments.
4
Tech worker, I understand what you're saying in general. But I've never heard of a teenager who would remain calm surrounded in a sea of blood and carnage except for a sociopath.
2
Billions are being spent on security services to protect US citizens from terrorist activities within the homeland. Yet the NSA never caught the Tsarnaev brothers' internet activity of viewing extremist Muslim messages and sermons online. The Russians actually sent a warning about the older brother yet the FBI failed to do more than just have a brief chat with him. Hello??? They never bothered to tell Boston police about his possible terrorist threat so that he could be monitored. [An FBI agent subsequently killed a friend of Tamerlan's who might have been able to fill in some of the back story.] The older brother was on a no-fly list but a slight spelling difference allowed him to fly and return from Dagestan, a country which has issues with Muslim extremists and a terrorist training camp that he probably attended. They went on shopping trips to buy pressure cookers. And on and on and on. They literally left bread crumbs but no one was able to prevent the bombing!!! Why are billions being spent on the keystone kops??? These brothers were a textbook case that should have had red flags popping all over the NSA. But...nothing...happened... Then bombs exploded at the Boston Marathon.
9
I totally agree with you IBIVI. We are spending billions on so called security, our privacy has been invaded mulitple times in mulitple ways, we have been inconvenienced in every possible way at airports all for our so called safety, and yet these two neophytes got away with this atrocity. How could this happen? I for one want my money back from the private contractors my government uses. They are clearly not up to the task. Once again like 9/11 everyone dropped the ball.
1
I think this guy should have been allowed to plead and sentenced to life. All that we know from this trial is that he appears remorseless. I doubt that that impression is of any comfort to his victims, though it may inure them to his fate if the jury decides to apply the death penalty.
As for his sentence, there will be a lot of talk about an eye for an eye. But there is no equivalence between the lives of the victims and the perpetrator. In no way can Tsarnaev's death be an atonement for his crimes.
As for his sentence, there will be a lot of talk about an eye for an eye. But there is no equivalence between the lives of the victims and the perpetrator. In no way can Tsarnaev's death be an atonement for his crimes.
1
of course it's not an atonement, it is a well deserved punishment.
Tsarnaev in the one person who knows where the bombs were made and tested, and with whom.
There are two reasons not to kill him; 1) we will lose the best chance of ever revealing the truth, and 2) he will die a martyr to the cause.
There are two reasons not to kill him; 1) we will lose the best chance of ever revealing the truth, and 2) he will die a martyr to the cause.
2
Dzhokhar's mother just today supported her son's bombing, saying, in effect, we in the USA deserved it. Bombers are personally deviant. Rather, they are closely tied to ideologies which make their actions seem good. After all, the son and the mother are in complete agreement that what he did was good. The American bomber Eric Rudolph was quite similar in motivation.
7
In order for this affair to be handled in an orderly manner, it must be broken into two phases: first, the determination of guilt or innocence via the trial and secondly, the why's and wherefores that led up to it.
Clearly, allowing these two murderers to enter the country and commit this horrible act needs to be fully understood and explained and dealt with in such a way as to minimize any reoccurrence.
Finish with the trial and then take it apart piece by piece until satisfaction is reached. Do so in an orderly manner with the end result being that future attacks can be thwarted.
Clearly, allowing these two murderers to enter the country and commit this horrible act needs to be fully understood and explained and dealt with in such a way as to minimize any reoccurrence.
Finish with the trial and then take it apart piece by piece until satisfaction is reached. Do so in an orderly manner with the end result being that future attacks can be thwarted.
1
This article is a thinly veiled defense and excuse for Tsarnaev while blaming the U.S. government for not doing more. The purpose of a trial is to have a person be accountable for their actions. Self-radicalization is not a theory to be dismissed so off-hand and blaming the War on Terror is fallacy; Islamic jihadists hate for who we are not what we do and its been like that for centuries.
9
Well said.
1
The brothers' "radicalization" is a red herring. They wanted to kill and found an justification for it. Radical Islam was a convenient justification because of their central Asian background. But if radical Islam did not exist, they would have found another. People have been killing for millenia with whatever justification was available at the time.
This is an important distinction because otherwise, conflict is viewed as a battle of religions, which are perceived as either right/wrong or acceptable/unacceptable. This perception is reinforced by the participants themselves, and the media because as long as there is is religious justification, whatever the source, the end justifies the means and nobody has to critically examine their own behavior.
As long as we look through these lenses, violence and conflict will perpetuate. The real global struggle is, or at least should be, against violence of all forms, whatever the justification.
This is an important distinction because otherwise, conflict is viewed as a battle of religions, which are perceived as either right/wrong or acceptable/unacceptable. This perception is reinforced by the participants themselves, and the media because as long as there is is religious justification, whatever the source, the end justifies the means and nobody has to critically examine their own behavior.
As long as we look through these lenses, violence and conflict will perpetuate. The real global struggle is, or at least should be, against violence of all forms, whatever the justification.
19
Exactly. The desire/drive/wish to do violence precedes the doctrine, not the other way around. So debates about the meaning of religious texts are irrelevant to combatting the violence.
• The sole job of the defense now is to make sure Dzhokhar Tsarnaev lives. The prosecution’s task is to persuade the jury to sentence him to death.
I sincerely hope Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is denied 'martyrdom' and sentenced to life in prison without parole, probably served in solitary. Let him talk to "the Prophet" until death from 'natural causes' and ask why he's being deprived of his 72 houris (virgins).
Why cater to him by granting him the death he wants? Punish him by letting him live instead.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." ~ VOLTAIRE
I sincerely hope Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is denied 'martyrdom' and sentenced to life in prison without parole, probably served in solitary. Let him talk to "the Prophet" until death from 'natural causes' and ask why he's being deprived of his 72 houris (virgins).
Why cater to him by granting him the death he wants? Punish him by letting him live instead.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." ~ VOLTAIRE
3
To me, this is the most tragic story of a "stupid kid" influenced by his even stupider big brother, both of whom might have felt like they didn't belong where they were. We will never know why this murder and butchery happened, as the man who might have had the answers is already dead, and the kid who was convicted is clueless. Religion may deserve some of the blame, but not all of it. The FBI certainly doesn't get a pass, either. I feel terrible for all the victims and the perpetrators. I can only hope that their abettors are eventually apprehended and brought to trial. These boys did not do this alone. Other people had to know they were up to something. Instead of stopping them, they egged them on with help or silence. They are just as guilty as these two. As a society, we must strive to prevent this from re-occurring through vigilance, education, and conscience. We must be able to work together with the authorities (FBI, Police, etc.) to help them prevent these crimes. They, in turn, must work with the civilian population in a positive, sensitive manner. I know I'm asking for too much, here. As for Dzhokhar, he should spend the rest of his life learning that what he did was wrong and working to convince future potential terrorists to avoid making the same mistake. All of this, of course, while he's incarcerated or brought to various facilities under tight security. As guilty as he is, he's probably no longer dangerous and could be useful in about 20 years.
1
frankly I care more about the sentencing than how a slacker and his domineering older brother were radicalized. My best friend knows the Richard family. The Boston Globe led last night with a photograph of 8 year old Martin Richard holding the sign he made saying 'No More Hurting People, Peace.'
18 year old Dzokhar Tsarnaev placed a weapon of mass destruction directly behind Martin Richard and 5 other children. This trial is now about sentencing for multiple counts of terrorism. 2 men carried out these heinous acts. Let's support the victims and their families. I am appalled at the tone of this op-ed piece. The Boston Marathon bombing trial is about the acts of terrorism and the destruction Tsarnaev wrought
Witnesses spoke of the havoc and loss of life and lives forever changed. Many testified wearing their artificial limbs.
the last thing we need is this writer promoting her book.
18 year old Dzokhar Tsarnaev placed a weapon of mass destruction directly behind Martin Richard and 5 other children. This trial is now about sentencing for multiple counts of terrorism. 2 men carried out these heinous acts. Let's support the victims and their families. I am appalled at the tone of this op-ed piece. The Boston Marathon bombing trial is about the acts of terrorism and the destruction Tsarnaev wrought
Witnesses spoke of the havoc and loss of life and lives forever changed. Many testified wearing their artificial limbs.
the last thing we need is this writer promoting her book.
6
Indeed, this article is dead on: A trial -however necessary- helps little as far as understanding radicalization of youth. The best observations: "A close examination would shed light on the lure of terrorism, which gives the disenfranchised a chance to become part of something greater. An even closer examination would show that the “war on terror” has contributed to the mythology of international Islamic terrorism as a mighty and glorious entity." And to this I add a root cause: Screens. Movie screens. Television screen. Computer screens. Cell phone screens. Take away screens (indeed impossible) and the problem is solved.
1
I don't feel strongly about the death penalty one way or the other. Overall, it seems easier to eliminate it in favor of life without parole. In this current trial, why is there no discussion of Tsarnaev's unwillingness to provide information about the unknown issues of the bombing and the unknown people involved? How does one ask for any type of leniency in sentencing, but not come clean with the background facts that are still not known? Whether this is Tsarnaev's martyr complex or his attorney's strategy to keep him from saying anything, it would lead me, as a juror, toward a maximum penalty.
1
He is totally unrepentant. He attorney is trying to save his life-that is all she is doing. Don't expect anything from Dzhokhar which might humanize him. His conversion is total and he has no pity for anyone he harmed. Give him life not death. No reward of martyrdom for him!
1
Correction: His attorney is...
The purpose of trials is to determine guilt in terms of specific legal terms which might or might not reveal deeper truths like why did something happen the way that it did or what led somebody to do what they did. The questions left unanswered simply were not relevant to determining this man's guilt or lack of guilt legally. If we want answers, then he cannot be executed so that he might be convinced to cooperate in the search for answers. Which is the higher good, greater understanding or justice for the murdered and maimed?
The NYT is in the position of being able to find a lot of the answers that the trial did not because of what it does and maybe it should give it a shot?
The NYT is in the position of being able to find a lot of the answers that the trial did not because of what it does and maybe it should give it a shot?
I think he stated his motivation for his actions when he wrote the note on the boat where he was hiding and ultimately apprehended. His actions were obviously reprehensible, but for us to pretend that we don't know why he did it is a little disingenuous. What additional truth are you seeking? And by the way, I do not think he should be put to death. If we do that, then we are essentially no better than the terrorists. He should spend the rest of his life in prison. That's actually worse than death for him since he was seeking martyrdom.
6
The purpose of a trial is to establish guilt or innocence of the accused, not to explain all the details the Times editorial staff would like to know more about. Some of those details are already known. There were accomplices, to be sure, but none thus far have been indicted. The FBI fumbled the ball badly but this is the norm for the FBI in Boston, an office beset with corruption since the 1980s. Eventually, these details will become clearer but for now, whatever small solace we may take from the three-month trial is found in the jury's verdict. Perhaps that message will resonate around the world to raise questions about terrorism and those who support it, both overtly and covertly.
4
From: Choice, Sickness, and Evil. Some thoughts on clinical and moral language.
However we go about understanding the motivations for the Marathon bombing, there is a place for both moral and clinical language. Clinical language is appropriately used when the goal is to avoid a moralistic stance of blame, to facilitate empathy or, although with less accuracy, prediction. We use clinical language to explore a performance under the guise of not being judgmental.
But at times judgment is called for. Clinical and moral language may cover the same performance but with different intent and significance. Moral language is appropriate when blame is at stake and where agency is treated as irreducibly given. Keep in mind: persons are agents, actors able to observe and critique their actions. There is no way around this if personal responsibility has any real meaning. Responsibility involves accountability for the choice actually made. This cannot be entirely divorced from the personal characteristics of the actor who makes the choice.
We use moral language to identify the monsters.
http://freedomliberationreaction.blogspot.com/2015/04/choice-sickness-an...
However we go about understanding the motivations for the Marathon bombing, there is a place for both moral and clinical language. Clinical language is appropriately used when the goal is to avoid a moralistic stance of blame, to facilitate empathy or, although with less accuracy, prediction. We use clinical language to explore a performance under the guise of not being judgmental.
But at times judgment is called for. Clinical and moral language may cover the same performance but with different intent and significance. Moral language is appropriate when blame is at stake and where agency is treated as irreducibly given. Keep in mind: persons are agents, actors able to observe and critique their actions. There is no way around this if personal responsibility has any real meaning. Responsibility involves accountability for the choice actually made. This cannot be entirely divorced from the personal characteristics of the actor who makes the choice.
We use moral language to identify the monsters.
http://freedomliberationreaction.blogspot.com/2015/04/choice-sickness-an...
Their uncle already gave us the answer for this two years ago when he said "they're losers". The whole family. The mother stealing thousands of dollars from department stores, the oldest bitter because he wasn't a wining fighter, the younger dealing drugs and flunking out of his scholarship, the sister threatening to bomb someone else and shoplifting.
The didn't make it here because They were discriminated against. Their uncle did just fine. They didn't make it here because they were criminals.plain and simple. And as far as the death penalty, we have already wasted too much time and money on these losers. Death penalty will cost us a fortune. End this with life and no false martyrdom. He was quite happy shopping and going to the gym after he muredered people. He wasn't running off to join the jihad.
The didn't make it here because They were discriminated against. Their uncle did just fine. They didn't make it here because they were criminals.plain and simple. And as far as the death penalty, we have already wasted too much time and money on these losers. Death penalty will cost us a fortune. End this with life and no false martyrdom. He was quite happy shopping and going to the gym after he muredered people. He wasn't running off to join the jihad.
24
I wonder if some of these as yet unexplored issues will come out in the sentencing part of the trial. The defense will certainly try to argue that Dzhokhar was a victim of his older brother's machinations, although I doubt the jury will be sympathetic.
I'm sure I'm not alone in hoping for a sentence of at least four lifetimes in maximum-security prison to at least match those four lives he snuffed out. A long, miserable life in a small cell as a non-entity is precisely the opposite of a short glorious "martyrdom" this vicious young man so ardently hopes for.
I'm sure I'm not alone in hoping for a sentence of at least four lifetimes in maximum-security prison to at least match those four lives he snuffed out. A long, miserable life in a small cell as a non-entity is precisely the opposite of a short glorious "martyrdom" this vicious young man so ardently hopes for.
5
The purpose of a trial is not to be the Warren Commission. The only facts relevant at trial are those that make the key facts necessary for conviction more or less likely. Tsarnaev was charged with using a bomb to to kill and maim hundreds. Where the bomb was made? Interesting, perhaps, but irrelevant. The life story of Tsarnaev's brother? Interesting, perhaps, but irrelevant. The brother is dead, and the defense team has never claimed he did all the dirty work. On the contrary, they admitted that Tsarnaev did everything he has been charged with. Want causation and ultimate "truth?" Do your own research, and write a book. Courts are for trials, not history lessons.
39
In view of the admission of guilt by the defense it is difficult to understand why the State spent all that time and money proving what was already admitted. The Times is correct in noting that understanding motive and method is crucial.
Does Mr. Tsarnaev want to die? Is martyrdom part of his mission? Would execution help him fulfill his mission? If motive and method is important for us to understand in preventing potential future mass murderers from carrying out their nefarious plans, then life imprisonment at least offers us that opportunity.
Does Mr. Tsarnaev want to die? Is martyrdom part of his mission? Would execution help him fulfill his mission? If motive and method is important for us to understand in preventing potential future mass murderers from carrying out their nefarious plans, then life imprisonment at least offers us that opportunity.
16
@marv-
The reason is that even though the defense admitted their client did it, the trial is about the motives which in turn is about sentencing, not about guilt. The defense is trying to say that the guy on trial was not totally a bad person and was influenced by his brother, basically saying the older brother was the evil mastermind. Not saying I agree, though quite honestly I think life in Supermax is a much tougher penalty on the brother than the death penalty would be. Among other things, given the appellate process, he will probably spend a lot of time in relatively decent jails until the appeals run out, whereas if they sentence him to life without parole he will be sent to supermax right away, appeals or no appeals/
The reason is that even though the defense admitted their client did it, the trial is about the motives which in turn is about sentencing, not about guilt. The defense is trying to say that the guy on trial was not totally a bad person and was influenced by his brother, basically saying the older brother was the evil mastermind. Not saying I agree, though quite honestly I think life in Supermax is a much tougher penalty on the brother than the death penalty would be. Among other things, given the appellate process, he will probably spend a lot of time in relatively decent jails until the appeals run out, whereas if they sentence him to life without parole he will be sent to supermax right away, appeals or no appeals/
So this piece is about the death penalty, which is barbaric. And further more the point about not learning anything with this kid's death is also good. Why do these people feel maligned that want to blow things up? Isn't it obvious? We are where we do not belong in our imperialist ways. Who got us here? The banks, the war profiteers and the fossil fuel cartel, that's who. I'll keep saying it until it maybe sticks. Everything in the news is related to these facts. ACCNY tells me not to bother to keep up with the news because Bush will be elected and this tragedy in Boston and others will continue because of the cartel staying in power (which by the way is both parties). We can prevent more tragedies, if only we would wake up.
5
"Isn't it obvious? We are where we do not belong in our imperialist ways."....No it is not obvious. It doesn't explain at all how someone was raised so that they believe that it can somehow be justified to plant a bomb among innocent civilians and blow people up that they don't even know. To do that you have to grow up in a home environment where the rights of other people are comletely disregarded. It requires a sense of grandiose narcissism; a person who does that has be a real sicko. And frankly those who can create any justification for someone who would do that are not very healthy themselves.
3
This * 1000. Let's stop giving them a free pass for planting bombs, filled with nails/tacks/etc. by little children
It seems a bit of a stretch to blame government actions, banks and oil companies for these two individuals’ evil, criminal acts. Can you disagree with government without killing and maiming and terrorizing a city? If anything, they should have loved America. These brothers were American citizens, spent a good part of their lives here, went to a wonderful and diverse public high school and availed themselves of every form of public financial assistance available. Dzhokhar in particular lived like most teenagers, partied with his buddies, was on the wrestling team, and went on to state college with financial aid and scholarships. We rolled out the welcome mat for this family. From what I know of this case, I see them as disappointed in their life's directions (D failing at college and T failing as a boxer), lacking in any moral values thanks to their parents, and using a twisted view of Islam as a way to strike out and feel important.
2
Good work, Masha. Heard your NPR interview, as well. Told an interesting story of the Tsarnaev family. The family's persecution and asylum in the US is a story that may reveal more about the roots of this horror than any assumptions about its origins, or the boys motivations.
As for the death penalty, there is no evidence that it deters capital crimes,
and in this case, there is a risk that Dzhokhar could rise to martyr status if put to death. Better he rot in obscurity.
As for the death penalty, there is no evidence that it deters capital crimes,
and in this case, there is a risk that Dzhokhar could rise to martyr status if put to death. Better he rot in obscurity.
5
There are many reports from relatives in Chechnya that the father made up stories of persecution. I doubt we will ever know the real truth about their roots.
1
Was there an attempt to plea bargain for information on those who helped? Probably not. Certainly, the defense had no intention of putting their client on the stand to testify as to support from others.
This happened at the Lindbergh Baby Kidnapping as well; if Hauptmann had any co-conspirators, the atmosphere surrounding the trial guaranteed that it would never come out.
This happened at the Lindbergh Baby Kidnapping as well; if Hauptmann had any co-conspirators, the atmosphere surrounding the trial guaranteed that it would never come out.
1
Do you think that the Tsarnaev brothers were searching for the "truth?"
1
As much as I would want him to recieve the death penalty it may be in our collective best interest to let him live. With time we may learn the whole story. Then again the intelligence community may not want the public to know the whole story. Where is Oliver Stone now?
There is not a conspiracy under every rock.......
1
Tsarnaev wants to die so that he can bacome a martyr. Thwart him. Send him to prison for a long and unpleasant life.
47
This fellow will be lucky to get the death penalty, barbaric as that is, because early death pales in comparison with the sheer horror of life without parole in solitary confinement.
He's only 21 now, and decades of 23 hours a day inside a concrete block that is twelve feet long and seven feet wide, is really being buried alive every day.
That is not only inhumane, it is inconceivable.
oz.
He's only 21 now, and decades of 23 hours a day inside a concrete block that is twelve feet long and seven feet wide, is really being buried alive every day.
That is not only inhumane, it is inconceivable.
oz.
6
Yes, I'm afraid that the next phase of the trial will once again reveal the barbarity of American sentencing practices.
Both the death sentence and life imprisonment are inhuman punishments that are not used in other democratic states.
Tsarnaev should receive a substantial sentence for his crimes against the Boston Marathon victims, but it should also recognize the possibility that a young man can change. At some point he must be released from prison and allowed to make a new life for himself.
Both the death sentence and life imprisonment are inhuman punishments that are not used in other democratic states.
Tsarnaev should receive a substantial sentence for his crimes against the Boston Marathon victims, but it should also recognize the possibility that a young man can change. At some point he must be released from prison and allowed to make a new life for himself.
1
If Mr. Tsarnaev had shown an iota of remorse during the trial, instead of appearing bored, perhaps I might be inclined to agree with you. However, history shows us that some people are pure evil. Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot come to mind.
1
Why was there even a trial ?? This guy confessed to everything. And there was no insanity plea either. This was a "show" trial that costs millions of taxpayer dollars that could have gone to the victims instead. Was he given the choice to plead life without parol or was this simply about getting to the death penalty. Various surveys have shown that the majority of Bostonians favor life without parol.
7
The defense offered a guilty plea in exchange for life in prison without parole which, you are correct, the majority of Bostonians prefer. The United States Attorney refused to accept it.
1
He did not formally plead guilty. This showed that we can have these trials in criminal court, not military court. And we aired many facts and details about the planning and execution of their crimes. The victims had their chance to speak and I think we all feel a sense of relief that justice was done with this verdict. It was worth every penny.
7
It's pretty clear what started Tamerlan Tsarnaev on his path to "self-radicalization." In 2009 the rules changed, preventing him from competing for the Golden Gloves boxing championship. The bombing wasn't about hating America for killing Muslims; it was about hating America for killing one person's dream.
17
That may be, but many of us have had our dreams truncated one way or another. It's no excuse to blow up the world, especially those who had nothing to do with the perceived insult.
1
The FBI may have been bumbling in their failure to identify the picture of Tamerlan Tsarnaev after the bombing, but I agree with the FBI that, based on the information they had from the Russians before the bombing, there was scant evidence for concern for US safety. The Russian authorities have had a rather bad habit of harassing any Chechen dissidents they come across, and invariably accusing them of "terrorism." If the FBI took all those Russians claims seriously, they would have been guilty of wasting scarce resources.
2
One other unanswered question is the location where the bombs were tested. No one would build a device like this and not test it. Knowing the location could likely lead to additional suspects, even if they are located in another country.
2
"No one would build a device like this and not test it." really? you mean he was not a rational terrorist. They downloaded the plans off the internet. Google it.
1
'A close examination would shed light on the lure of terrorism, which gives the disenfranchised a chance to become part of something greater.'
I think we've had that key in hand for more than 50 years, in Eric Hoffer's treatise The True Believer. Psychological nature abhors a vacuum, and something will always rush in to fill up an empty person (and we all begin as empty until something fills us with meaning and purpose). Whether ethnic, political, religious, or some combination of factors, we are pack animals seeking to ally and identify ourselves with someone we esteem as smarter, stronger, more beloved of a deity, or in some other way 'better' and thus to attain by association virtues we sense ourselves as lacking. It sounds weird, perhaps, to say the underlying psychological dynamic of Grover Dill with Scut Farkis in 'A Christmas Story' is fundamentally the same as the Tsarnaev brothers attaching themselves to radical Islamism or Timothy McVeigh allying himself with right-wing 'patriot' groups ... but it is. The very same underlying urge.
I think we've had that key in hand for more than 50 years, in Eric Hoffer's treatise The True Believer. Psychological nature abhors a vacuum, and something will always rush in to fill up an empty person (and we all begin as empty until something fills us with meaning and purpose). Whether ethnic, political, religious, or some combination of factors, we are pack animals seeking to ally and identify ourselves with someone we esteem as smarter, stronger, more beloved of a deity, or in some other way 'better' and thus to attain by association virtues we sense ourselves as lacking. It sounds weird, perhaps, to say the underlying psychological dynamic of Grover Dill with Scut Farkis in 'A Christmas Story' is fundamentally the same as the Tsarnaev brothers attaching themselves to radical Islamism or Timothy McVeigh allying himself with right-wing 'patriot' groups ... but it is. The very same underlying urge.
11
American modes of sentencing criminal defendants , usually miss the political implications of killing defendants. In the case of Tsarnaev, a sentenced of death is doing him a kindness and courtesy. To die at the hands of his "persecutors" as he will see it, is to make him a religious martyr. Also, as seen In the eyes of the Islamic world, he will have been on Jihad and therefore, death it it's pursuit will make a real "islamic" martyr of him. He and his ilk will claim that he will be welcomed into heaven by innumerable virgins and young boys "With eyebrows like half moons" that are the due of all Islamic martyrs. Better, for the nation to make Tsarnaev sit in jail for the rest of his life, waiting for death. Such an immurement will force him to either become a hardened and embittered radical , who no one ever hears from or it will mellow him out and he will end the next few decades, regretting daily the horror and pain he and his brother caused. Don't let him think he's going straight to Heaven. If Americans want him to suffer the longest and possibly come to the realization of what a wasteful act and a stupid mistake his bombing was,then make him serve at least a full life sentence without parole.
86
Interesting.... something I had not considered. You are right... let him suffer day after day for perhaps the next fifty or so years. Let him consider what his life would have been like....perhaps a marriage, a job, children of his own. Let him consider what it would have been like to watch one of his own children lose a couple of limbs to some over the top religious nutcase. Let him think about that and wonder if religion was worth it.
The "Islamic world" is not so monolithic.
mabraun's comment is insightful. To it I would like to add the thought that the people of the United States should not Kill Mr. Tsarnaev for reasons having little to do with this young man and his sense of Martyrdom or the Islamic world's view of his fate. Those reasons have much more to do with the nature of the character of this nation.
We should allow Mr. Tsarnaev to sit in a Federal Maximum Security Prison for the rest of his natural life at our expense and we should educate and rehabilitate him if that is possible because it is better for our character as a nation. He must pay for his crimes but we should afford him the humane treatment he denied his victims as a tribute to their humanity and to ours as a nation.
We should allow Mr. Tsarnaev to sit in a Federal Maximum Security Prison for the rest of his natural life at our expense and we should educate and rehabilitate him if that is possible because it is better for our character as a nation. He must pay for his crimes but we should afford him the humane treatment he denied his victims as a tribute to their humanity and to ours as a nation.
Before Robert Meuller of the FBI retired, he testified before Congress and happened to mention the FBI knew within 48 hours the identity of the brothers. That is not what we were told that week. Will we ever know what the government knows about these events?
I hope the verdict is not the death penalty so there may be a chance one day to understand what happened to these brothers. I would like to see us try to prevent other young people going down this path.
I hope the verdict is not the death penalty so there may be a chance one day to understand what happened to these brothers. I would like to see us try to prevent other young people going down this path.
2
I was frustrated also that more info did not come out. I really wanted to get a minute by minute explanation of the activity of the brothers. When did they leave the apartment? How did they get to Boylston St.? Walk? Bus? Trolley? What was their route back to Cambridge? Why did they go from MIT to Brighton? What route? None of the newspaper articles focused on the straight facts. They all competed to give the most detailed descriptions of the carnage. If anyone knows of a website with a detailed timeline, please let me know.
On the death penalty: You do not respond to an insane act with another insane act.
On the death penalty: You do not respond to an insane act with another insane act.
3
Ms. Gessen presents a concise and insightful analysis of both the investigation into, and the trial related to, the Boston Marathon bombing. I am not seeking to excuse, nor to forgive, Mr. Dzhokar Tsarnaev for his hideous crimes. Far from it. However, I do not support the death penalty in this case or any other. I pray that he will be kept alive so that 1) He does not become yet another "martyr" to his "cause", and 2) We may still have, at minimum, opportunities in future, to question him as to who else may have been involved in his plot, with the hope that we may eliminate additional risks.
The truth has been staring us in the face for years, but we refuse to acknowledge it - the worldwide epidemic of radical Islamist terrorism, transmitted through the web, mosques, etc. etc. etc.
5
Whether or not the death penalty is wrong, we have to first look at what is the cause behind it. The past forty years have seen the rise of the penal harm movement in American prisons as the focus shifted from rehabilitation to punishment. Americans now more than ever want prisoners to suffer for what they've done. The question then becomes which is the worst form of suffering: immediate death at the hands of the country you terrorized or a life within prison walls devoid of any meaning, constantly having to live with the consequences of your actions?
(Either way, however, the death penalty was created largely because people don't want their tax dollars being used to support inmates for their entire lives. Victim's families also want the immediate closure of knowing justice has been served so they can move on with their lives and try to start healing.)
This isn't a case about ethics. This is a case about what Americans believe is the worst possible punishment that this terrorist can receive. And at the end of this long and drawn-out trial, THAT is what the verdict will be based upon, not what is right and what is wrong. It will only be based upon what will make this man suffer the most.
(Either way, however, the death penalty was created largely because people don't want their tax dollars being used to support inmates for their entire lives. Victim's families also want the immediate closure of knowing justice has been served so they can move on with their lives and try to start healing.)
This isn't a case about ethics. This is a case about what Americans believe is the worst possible punishment that this terrorist can receive. And at the end of this long and drawn-out trial, THAT is what the verdict will be based upon, not what is right and what is wrong. It will only be based upon what will make this man suffer the most.
1
Besides the other reasons for the death penalty that you wrote, I have another. That we never have to worry about some obscene murderer getting out to murder again.
The case dealt with 2 brothers' conspiracy to kill people.
It did not deal with any failure of security agencies to prevent this.
That is another matter, one the defense might have raised but wisely did not,
keeping the focus on what it treated as a domineering brother and what it hopes it showed was an immature and easily-dominated boy.
Really, the subject of failed comms between the US and Russia is a "red herring", pun intended. No conspiracy was alleged, none described.
It did not deal with any failure of security agencies to prevent this.
That is another matter, one the defense might have raised but wisely did not,
keeping the focus on what it treated as a domineering brother and what it hopes it showed was an immature and easily-dominated boy.
Really, the subject of failed comms between the US and Russia is a "red herring", pun intended. No conspiracy was alleged, none described.
3
There's less mystery than the writer suggests. Russian intelligence gave ample warnings about these two (among many other Islamists, be they self-radicalized or not) but the USA was somehow too proud to take advice from (gasp) Putin.
3
Not too proud, just too stupid. I have no faith in our intelligence agencies, even less faith in Homeland Security.
My understanding is that a juried trial is not to answer these questions for a public audience but to establish guilt without doubt. When the defendant has admitted guilt then the only reason there is a trial is to make sure that the defendant's citizenship rights have not been violated. That this trail managed to do exactly this is admirable. Now it is up to the jury members to decide what his fate will be. We won't be asking them, one on one, what they were thinking of when they come up with their final decision.
Personally, I think death is exactly what Dzhokhar Tsarnaev wants because he thinks he will be made a martyr and that is exactly why he shouldn't be put to death. I think he should be put away for life with all access to the outside world prohibited until he is 65. All records of his existence should be purged and sealed his name changed to Iblis and all Muslim terrorists should be referred to Iblis in the future.
He became a terrorist because he is nothing else nor would he ever be since he couldn't figure out how to become a man with honor and integrity. Finally, it doesn't matter that his brother influenced him. Hitler influenced quite a few people and that was neither an acceptable excuse or considered a valid reason in any of the Nuremberg Trials.
Personally, I think death is exactly what Dzhokhar Tsarnaev wants because he thinks he will be made a martyr and that is exactly why he shouldn't be put to death. I think he should be put away for life with all access to the outside world prohibited until he is 65. All records of his existence should be purged and sealed his name changed to Iblis and all Muslim terrorists should be referred to Iblis in the future.
He became a terrorist because he is nothing else nor would he ever be since he couldn't figure out how to become a man with honor and integrity. Finally, it doesn't matter that his brother influenced him. Hitler influenced quite a few people and that was neither an acceptable excuse or considered a valid reason in any of the Nuremberg Trials.
8
So, who will answer these questions? They are important and serious - like where the bombs were made - had to be somewhere...with the money we spend on homeland security, we should be able to get to the bottom of this.
1
In this case, the verdict should not be "death", but life in prison with no parole. In a single cell. Death would make him a martyr, and that is what he and his brother were seeking. The "people" should not aid him in achieving that goal.
1
The reason for the bombings was very simple: HATE.
Why do we need to know more than this? And what is so hard to understand other than the brothers hated America?
As far as the author's statement that the Federal prosecution team did their job well, I find this challenging to believe. The indictment went on for pages and included conspiracy charges. The charges should have been 2 statements:
1. Murder of 4 individuals
2. Attempted murder of 260 individuals.
Had the Federal team done their job well, the jury would have had nothing to deliberate.
Why do we need to know more than this? And what is so hard to understand other than the brothers hated America?
As far as the author's statement that the Federal prosecution team did their job well, I find this challenging to believe. The indictment went on for pages and included conspiracy charges. The charges should have been 2 statements:
1. Murder of 4 individuals
2. Attempted murder of 260 individuals.
Had the Federal team done their job well, the jury would have had nothing to deliberate.
6
Given that federal courts do not have jurisdiction over plain old "murder" and "attempted murder", it's actually not that simple.
The war on terror doesn't create terrorists by "glorifying" them -- terrorists cause terror out of ideology or a cynical business. Obama has bent over backwards to turn terrorism into a police matter rather than a war -- and it didn't work and only got worse. The real big question here that I wish Gessen would address is why Russia could let Tamerlan run around Dagestan, without a passport even, and meet with jihadists who were assassinated by Russian law-enforcers -- we're told by the Dagestan Anti-Terrorist Center via Novaya Gazeta -- and yet never tell the FBI that very pertinent fact. Then there's the time Tamerlan spent in Moscow when perhaps he was being briefed or debriefed or recruited. The co-del meeting Seagal was not the only such delegation. Don't forget the head of the FBI himself went to Moscow and demanded to go to Dagestan to meet counterparts there. And yet when a CIA agent who was on this mission tried to contact one of the Russian counterparts later, he was set up in this ridiculous operation where he was made to look like he was recruiting spies with a wig, a silly note, and euros. Then he was expelled. Sounds like Russia didn't want to tell us about Tamerland's jihad connections with their domestic insurgency and/or wanted to let nature take its course, perhaps to get back at the US for the Magnitsky Act. Then there's Todashev, whose father worked in the Grozny mayor's office, who was close to Kadyrov. Lots more journalism needed here, truly, in Russia.
5
Why no hue and cry over holding the trial of this "terrorist" on Amercan soil? Dzhokhar Tsarnaev and his brother have shown they are more dangerous to the safety of the American people and any of the dead-enders at Guantanamo, who Republicans insist never enter this country. Aren't we concerned that Chechen terrorists will retaliate? It's surprising we haven't heard warnings from John McCain and Lindsey Graham, the two security watchdogs. More and more, things like this convince me that our country has turned into a confederacy of dunces.
Actually we did hear warnings from John McCain and Lindsey Graham, in a May 1, 2013 Boston Globe op-ed, among other places. Though they didn't argue Dzhokhar Tsarnaev should be tried outside the U.S., they did want him to be treated as an enemy combatant initially:
"Consistent with the law, based on a potential affiliation with Al Qaeda, the president could have designated Tsarnaev an enemy combatant to collect intelligence to protect our country. Following the extended interrogation, Tsarnaev would have been transferred to a federal court for trial."
http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2013/04/30/after-terrorist-attack-int...
"Consistent with the law, based on a potential affiliation with Al Qaeda, the president could have designated Tsarnaev an enemy combatant to collect intelligence to protect our country. Following the extended interrogation, Tsarnaev would have been transferred to a federal court for trial."
http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2013/04/30/after-terrorist-attack-int...
Why would Chechen terrorists retaliate? They hate Russians, not Americans. They have their hands full fighting the Russians, and the U.S. had absolutely nothing to do with the Chechen-Russian conflict. By attacking Americans, Chechens would unite the Russians and the U.S. on this particular issue. Chechen extremists did not sanction the Boston bombing, and it did them no good.
1
Great points about what the F.B.I. and government generally has failed to answer about this terrorist attack. I really don't think the trial was the place to answer that though. This trial, which shouldn't have gone on this long, was to determine whether Tsarnaev was guilty in the bombing or not. It should have been a quicker trial because there was never any doubt that he was guilty. Tons of incontrovertible evidence and witnesses, self-incriminating statements, it's appalling that the defense didn't just plead guilty to avoid the death penalty to begin with (it's not possible to plead guilty and receive a death sentence, which is also a bit silly of us).
The second part of the trial won't be riveting to me, nor will it shed any light on what caused this attack nor how to prevent the next one. This will just determine whether Tsarnaev lives the rest of his life in jail, at considerable expense, or whether he gets executed in about fifteen years, at even greater expense. I don't care which happens, honestly, just as long as he never walks free again, and he won't.
Setting this trial and this loser aside, we do really need to study this phenomenon so as to prevent it. Clearly it's inextricably linked to fanatical fundamentalist Islam, so we have to study that, its mosques, websites, preachers, and converts. We definitely don't need the advice of Steven Seagall, or even Jean Claude van Damme, but we do need to attack this problem better.
The second part of the trial won't be riveting to me, nor will it shed any light on what caused this attack nor how to prevent the next one. This will just determine whether Tsarnaev lives the rest of his life in jail, at considerable expense, or whether he gets executed in about fifteen years, at even greater expense. I don't care which happens, honestly, just as long as he never walks free again, and he won't.
Setting this trial and this loser aside, we do really need to study this phenomenon so as to prevent it. Clearly it's inextricably linked to fanatical fundamentalist Islam, so we have to study that, its mosques, websites, preachers, and converts. We definitely don't need the advice of Steven Seagall, or even Jean Claude van Damme, but we do need to attack this problem better.
1
I know I speak for many when I say how relieved I am to learn from our commentator that self-radicalization has little basis in scholarship. Indeed, it will not be until two or three hundred over-education, under-employed folks with advanced degrees in social science/religion/cross-cultural/minority oppression/whatever the next fake course of study Brown University comes up with next week inform us why these two killers did what they did that I for one will feel completely informed. Indeed still, our collective yearning to understand evil instead of obliterate it will certainly have its reward: evil shall rule the world. No, my dears, there is no problem with this narrative except that it took a year and 4 million dollars to get here. What should have been done, were we collectively sane, was to burn this young beast alive in public.
4
It's astonishing to claim that what the public wants most is to "understand" Tsarnaev. I think I speak for most Americans when I say that what Americans wanted from the trial was justice for the victims and for society.
Which is the point of the justice system and why it exists, fifty years of extremist and appalling offender-centric shilling by the Times notwithstanding.
Which is the point of the justice system and why it exists, fifty years of extremist and appalling offender-centric shilling by the Times notwithstanding.
13
The article is cynical about the Russian connection. I believe that is wrong. One of the alternative theories doing the round is that the US secret services weren't bothered at all with the brothers having extremist ideas - as long as they planned to execute them inside Russia. That would be a good explanation of why so many federal agencies seem not very cooperative.
Let's not forget that Tamerlan Tsarnaev did attend a workshop sponsored by the CIA-funded Jamestown Foundation. See http://www.infowars.com/tamerlan-tsarnaev-attended-cia-sponsored-workshop/
Let's not forget that Tamerlan Tsarnaev did attend a workshop sponsored by the CIA-funded Jamestown Foundation. See http://www.infowars.com/tamerlan-tsarnaev-attended-cia-sponsored-workshop/
1
What was their motive? First of all, motive is irrelevant, but if you want to guess, their motivation was their sick and radicalised version of their religion. Jihad against infidels.
8
This trial should never have taken place. It was a huge waste of public money and wallowed in the carnage on the day of the bombing. Tsarnaev would have pled guilty had the federal authorities agreed to life imprisonment with no parole, but that was rejected by the feds. The trial was no more than a show trial, as the outcome was never in doubt. The media fully come rated in the show, giving new definition to shallow.
7
I don't support the death penalty. That said, the federal prosecutor would have been remiss had he not pursued the death penalty in this case. Given the current federal law, how could he not pursue the death penalty? If anyone deserves the death penalty, it is Tsarnaev.
1
Iis not the job of our courts to determine how the total life of any defendent led to his/her choice to commit a crime and it should not be.
The purpose of our courts is to determine if the defendent has committed a crime. Even in cases where "insanity" or "temporary insanity" is used as a defense, the courts do not investigate and judge the causes of the insanity.
The purpose of our courts is to determine if the defendent has committed a crime. Even in cases where "insanity" or "temporary insanity" is used as a defense, the courts do not investigate and judge the causes of the insanity.
10
Acts like this bombing are happening on a daily basis in Africa, in France, etc. So the idea that American authorities should know "what can be done to prevent it from happening again" seems pretty far fetched. Does any one know?
14
As the recent slaughter in Kenya (and other places) indicates, jihadist warriors are usually not the disenfranchised, poor individuals that Obama says they are. Indeed, starting with OBL and continuing with many AQ/ISIS killers, the gunmen are usually from wealthy families with privileged backgrounds.
1
Looking for "answers"? I think its really looking for excuses. There is no excuse for what this man and his brother did. Answers, why he did it? He didn't do it because he was poor, or hated or badly treated. He wasn't. He enjoyed all the US had to offer but he wanted something else. It is time to close the book on this guy's "fame". I doubt he will get the death penalty so life without parole and no interaction with the media or a computer. He has had his 15 minutes. He's a murder.
30
"...and truth and justice are not synonymous." Actually, truth is a synonym for justice. Further, there can be no justice without truth. And, truth with no justice is a hollow concept.
1
Imposition of the death penalty will be a very unremarkable outcome. The shear volume of butchery far transcends the typical capital crime. If, unlike Tim McVeigh, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev decides to use the justice system to fight for his life, or prolong it as much as possible, then the real saga will start. It is not uncommon for execution to take place 20 years after conviction. Will those whose need for closure or revenge will be satisfied by his execution in 2035? Will the spectacle of a middle aged man being put to death by some scientifically benign method provide a sense of justice being served? How many of us will remember Dzhokhar Tsarnaev by then?
A sentence of life without the chance fir parole is the completion of justice the moment it is declared. A death sentence is the start of a long, unpleasant, uncertain journey that few would have the attention span or tenacity needed to follow to its end.
A sentence of life without the chance fir parole is the completion of justice the moment it is declared. A death sentence is the start of a long, unpleasant, uncertain journey that few would have the attention span or tenacity needed to follow to its end.
7
Some answers are needed why the FBI didn't more thoroughly look into the activities of the brothers, especially after the heads up from Russia about the clan. What is the use of having an elaborate system for tapping telephone and internet accounts when the critical information turned up is handled superficially instead of sparking an investigation that in all likelihood would have nabbed the brothers and saved all the deaths and injuries? Why were questions not raised at the trial that would have shown some light on why the brothers were allowed to buy bomb materials when that should have rung some loud alarm bells for the FBI? It seems we might as well not have a huge information gathering system if there is so little imagination in using its results. We obviously have some very bright people in the FBI but it appears that there are some seriously lacking in curiosity.
14
But then agents would have to speak Russian! No one one of them speak any foreign languages , except the 11 who were raised in non english speaking homes. FBI agents ought not to be the only police force in the US which has to learn a foreign language! How would cops from Montana ,Iowa and Ohio ever get to be Special Agents if they had to know a foreign language? Isn't English good enough!? Besides, we worked fine without foreign languages since before WWI. Hoover never spoke a foreign language! Why should we need to learn stupid, primitive, irreligious tongues now, after we have conquered the world, and every nation is our friend or our enemy? Beside, we can hire foreigners per-diem for the couple of few cases where no one speaks real English. It's cheaper that way and we don't have to work with these aliens or give them weapons. They look and talk different. How can they be trusted to be Americans if they talk some creepy, secret language of our enemies that real Special Agents can't understand?They might be talking about Special Agents behind their back,or secretly make disparaging remarks about America and we won't know !!!
The FBI doesn't let scientists or techies do the scientific work involved in forensic sciences--we just tell our agents to put on a lab coat and they give us whatever we want! Why'd'we need linguists just to know what a foreign criminal says? It sounds un American; we can just tell them what they said, anyway!
The FBI doesn't let scientists or techies do the scientific work involved in forensic sciences--we just tell our agents to put on a lab coat and they give us whatever we want! Why'd'we need linguists just to know what a foreign criminal says? It sounds un American; we can just tell them what they said, anyway!
With all respect to the op-ed writer, the trial is not concerning anything regarding the conversion to radicalization. That is not the objective of any criminal trial, much less this one; rather, the objective is to determine guilt, as you yourself say. And in this case, it did its job. What more could one ask? That we switch to a European system to find fact? While nice and all, I enjoy our adversarial system, thank you. Although it would put many lawyers out of work.
8
I do believe that we should have found out where the bomb was made, who helped them, why the FBI and NSA with all their resources couldn't have worked harder and prevented this whole fiasco from occurring. If they are not really utilizing their powers, then the powers of listening and accumulating info should be stopped as useless and costly. Again, as in 9/11 a poor job all around. And I believe the penalty should be life without parole, no visitors, and for the first 20 or so years, no television, exercise rooms, and only limited ability to see and speak to others. And keep this guy away from any proselytizing Muslims in prison, for god's sake.
1
There's an even bigger question that has gone not only unanswered but almost unasked: Why where the Tsarnaevs in the United States at all?
Just as we have a National Transportation Safety Board, we need a National Immigration Security Board to review flagrant foul-ups of the immigration and refugee process, such as the Tsarnaev family and their friend Ibragim Todashev, a suspect in the ghastly ritual triple murder in Waltham on the 10th anniversary of 9/11.
Did the Tsarnaevs get refugee status because their Uncle Ruslan Tsarni used to be the son-in-law of CIA insider Graham Fuller? How did Todashev get refugee status, when in his father is a powerful manager in the Russian state, about four levels down the org chart from Putin?
Just as we have a National Transportation Safety Board, we need a National Immigration Security Board to review flagrant foul-ups of the immigration and refugee process, such as the Tsarnaev family and their friend Ibragim Todashev, a suspect in the ghastly ritual triple murder in Waltham on the 10th anniversary of 9/11.
Did the Tsarnaevs get refugee status because their Uncle Ruslan Tsarni used to be the son-in-law of CIA insider Graham Fuller? How did Todashev get refugee status, when in his father is a powerful manager in the Russian state, about four levels down the org chart from Putin?
62
Under Obama, close to 1/2 of all refugee visas are going to people from countries that wage jihad. I shudder to think about the lack of comprehensive background checks that facilitate the entry of other Tsarnaevs into the US. Africa, where genocide is killing off the population and we see true economic hardship, gets a very small refugee visa allocation.
A National Immigration Security Board would be a good thing but not to look backward at the number of immigrants/refugees who commit crimes unless looking backward results in examining why we admit people who can provide no benefit to the USA and especially why we admit people whose religion teaches them to hate us as 'infidels'.
The author claims that the attorneys on both sides have done their jobs "remarkably well." This is true of he defense whose skill will be fully demonstrated in the weeks to come. The prosecution, however, made a fundamental mistake by placing the death penalty on the table. That will not work in Massachusetts. All the defense has to do is get one victim or witness on the stand and, after an intensive narrative, to get him or her to acknowledge, "I would not want him to die." Case finished -- and millions in fees and legal time down the drain. How could the jury be less merciful than someone directly involved in this horrendous event?
4
It's a Federal trial, not a MA state trial. Federal law applies, and potential jurors were screened so as to eliminate from the pool anyone who stated a fundamental opposition to the death penalty.
1
I always feel sorry for people who throw their lives away for stupid reasons or none at all, but I don't waste my time worrying about their motivations or what happens to them.
11
Sorry for this guy. Don't waste your time or effort. He doesn't deserve it.
1
You get answers only when you have questions, and that requires a logical premise. Religion based terrorism does not entail any sense, logic or reason. Few answers? I am surprised that we have any at all.
17
A number of things have become evident from the Boston Marathon bombing EVENT, not so much the trial. The first is that it's possible that there may be so many associations such as the elder Tsarnev's indications of possible radicalization that those who pursue such leads are overwhelmed by the number of them. That's not very encouraging, is it?
The second is a suspicion that we have too many internal police and intelligence organizations, that too many walls still exist to separate them, and that too much actual insight is disappearing in the hand-offs between them. It was this failure that was the proximate cause of our failure to anticipate and prevent 9/11, and it appears as if a lot of the problem still remains, even after formation of Homeland Security and the subordination of so many organizations to it, as well as the Patriot Act's easing of information-sharing restrictions.
As to the trial itself of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, this op-ed itself admits that trials have purposes that go beyond uncovering useful truths: they're designed as a battlefield where forces dedicated to conviction and acquittal vie. I never expected the trial to be a grand discovery-session into the mechanics of terrorism.
But it may be time for another blue-ribbon commission on ASSESSING the success of Homeland Security and the practices that still cause vital information to be lost among possibly too many organizations tripping over one-another's feet.
The second is a suspicion that we have too many internal police and intelligence organizations, that too many walls still exist to separate them, and that too much actual insight is disappearing in the hand-offs between them. It was this failure that was the proximate cause of our failure to anticipate and prevent 9/11, and it appears as if a lot of the problem still remains, even after formation of Homeland Security and the subordination of so many organizations to it, as well as the Patriot Act's easing of information-sharing restrictions.
As to the trial itself of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, this op-ed itself admits that trials have purposes that go beyond uncovering useful truths: they're designed as a battlefield where forces dedicated to conviction and acquittal vie. I never expected the trial to be a grand discovery-session into the mechanics of terrorism.
But it may be time for another blue-ribbon commission on ASSESSING the success of Homeland Security and the practices that still cause vital information to be lost among possibly too many organizations tripping over one-another's feet.
18
I certainly hope that, though well-deserved, the death penalty is not imposed on this terrorist. That is a terrorist's main goal - to become MARTYRS - and we should not permit that, no matter the crime. A lifetime of living in confinement in a very small prison cell would be much more appropriate for what he has done.....
33
Is the true terrorist's main goal to become a martyr? Or do the true terrorists choose to hide and accomplish their goals through 'useful idiots'?
If the prosecution is successful with its task, and Tsarnaev is sentenced to death, the answers to the important questions raised will die as well.
4
What answers do want from this murderer? He wanted to kill people. He was unfortunately successful now its time to put him away.
3
The trial, though very well conducted by all involved, was largely a waste of time and resources. There was no question as to Tsarnaev's guilt: without the death penalty issue, the trial could have been conducted in a week or so. And the outcome will be the same, no matter what the result of the penalty phase: Tsarnaev will die in prison. Only the timing and circumstances of his death will vary.
23
Agree, only to add, that without the death penalty, Tsarnaev would have pled guilty, and we could have avoided the expense and trauma of the entire trial. The Justice Department refused the plea offer made by the defense, and here we are.
17
@ad-
They refused him pleading guilty because had he done so, it took the death penalty off the table, if he pled guilty it would mean automatic life without parole. Personally, I think life in Supermax is the more vicious penalty and would have been a better alternative than the trial.
They refused him pleading guilty because had he done so, it took the death penalty off the table, if he pled guilty it would mean automatic life without parole. Personally, I think life in Supermax is the more vicious penalty and would have been a better alternative than the trial.
1
Re-read the recent NYT article on the "Super Max" prison, and then try to decide on the appropriate punishment. Me, I would desperately want the death penalty rather than suffer the torment of that place. But of course the charade persists that the "humane" sentence is "life". Not saying which is appropriate or just or right, but a realistic assessment of the two seems worthwhile.
26
A strong argument for life without parole in such cases, McVeigh got off lightly.
1
Explain to me please why no media source has published a single photograph of Tsarnaev which was taken after his arrest. Instead, they use very flattering photos, even one that easily qualifies as a glamour shot. Even after he is convicted, it is impossible to find a single photo of Tsarnaev taken after he was in police custody. Not even a mug shot. Why does he have this privilege?
20
Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is not a victim. He chose to turn on the country that took him and his family in. He and his brother went to the Marathon with the sole purpose to kill, maim, and injure as many people as he could. He did this because he believed, in his warped twisted interpretation of his religion, his god permits the killing of unbelievers.
He alone could have stopped this but chose not to. He is not a martyr. He is not a soldier. He is not a victim of American imperialism. Many people have grievances with the U.S. government, but only an utter sociopath would kill and attempt to justify it. He is a coward. A coward who deserves to spend the rest of his days behind bars.
He alone could have stopped this but chose not to. He is not a martyr. He is not a soldier. He is not a victim of American imperialism. Many people have grievances with the U.S. government, but only an utter sociopath would kill and attempt to justify it. He is a coward. A coward who deserves to spend the rest of his days behind bars.
58
How many millions of young people could have taken what the Tsarnavev brothers were given: subsidized educations, a real chance at the American dream, and made something of the opportunity? What a tragic waste.
42
The president can still pardon him.
2
Knowing that the President is blatantly selling out both our Arab and Israeli allies with his fatally flawed ambiguous Iranian Nuclear Agreement ("The elimination of Israel is non-negotiable," according to Iran's "Supreme Leader."), a Presidential pardon is certainly not outside the realm of possibilities!
Why would he?
1
Beginning to wonder if Judith Clarke, the defense attorney, has a few issues of her own. We repeatedly hear about her efforts to "humanize" people such as Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. Now she will try to "humanize Tsarnaev by trying to convince a jury and the world that he was under the human power of his brother to terrorize, murder, torture. He did not show one human emotion even in a courtroom as that terror was laid out before him.
In addition to a law degree, she holds a psychology degree. Let's just discuss some of those she has defended and who consequently have avoided a death penalty:
-Susan Smith - mother who killed her two children, but at the last minute freed herself from the sinking car - depressed
-Eric Rudolph - Olympic park bomber
-Ted Kacznski - Unabomber - Ms. Clarke seemed to be able to relate to him - he would not allow insanity plea
-Jared Loughner - Arizona murderer and attempted that of Gabby Giffords
-Zacaris Moussaoi - on call defense
She managed to plea bargain with a guilty plea with most of them. That must have been the "humanizing" element.
There doesn't seem one piece of humanity, humanizing, or anything about being human for which a jury has found Dzhokhar Tsarnaev guilty today.
Maybe some would give Judith Clarke a tremendous amount of credit or respect, but her motives and her work leave some of us wondering how someone can believe and convince any human component of what occurred on April 13, 2015, at the hands of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev.
-
In addition to a law degree, she holds a psychology degree. Let's just discuss some of those she has defended and who consequently have avoided a death penalty:
-Susan Smith - mother who killed her two children, but at the last minute freed herself from the sinking car - depressed
-Eric Rudolph - Olympic park bomber
-Ted Kacznski - Unabomber - Ms. Clarke seemed to be able to relate to him - he would not allow insanity plea
-Jared Loughner - Arizona murderer and attempted that of Gabby Giffords
-Zacaris Moussaoi - on call defense
She managed to plea bargain with a guilty plea with most of them. That must have been the "humanizing" element.
There doesn't seem one piece of humanity, humanizing, or anything about being human for which a jury has found Dzhokhar Tsarnaev guilty today.
Maybe some would give Judith Clarke a tremendous amount of credit or respect, but her motives and her work leave some of us wondering how someone can believe and convince any human component of what occurred on April 13, 2015, at the hands of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev.
-
10
sorry
make that April 15, 2013. Terrible slip and typo. My apologies.
make that April 15, 2013. Terrible slip and typo. My apologies.
That's the work of a criminal defense attorney, as well as a good psychologist—to be able to relate to people.
No one has said Judith Clarke supports what happened on 4/13/13, but as this article suggests, connecting to and gaining the trust of this client, and other clients before him that are controversial, sometimes speaks to motive and gives victims, families, and the public insight into why atrocities like these are committed. This trial isn't over, and I suspect the work of Ms. Clarke will be more apparent in the penalty phase.
That doesn't ok this kind of behavior, but introspection after these kinds of things is certainly necessary. And in this country, no matter how heinous the crime, all offenders are offered the right to a fair trial. In order to get the information needed to present a fair side of the defendant at trial, counsel must relate to them. If they don't, such defendants could potentially argue ineffective counsel and try to appeal their convictions, however unsuccessful they may be. Laws mean everyone is afforded the same treatment--they are not individualized.
No one has said Judith Clarke supports what happened on 4/13/13, but as this article suggests, connecting to and gaining the trust of this client, and other clients before him that are controversial, sometimes speaks to motive and gives victims, families, and the public insight into why atrocities like these are committed. This trial isn't over, and I suspect the work of Ms. Clarke will be more apparent in the penalty phase.
That doesn't ok this kind of behavior, but introspection after these kinds of things is certainly necessary. And in this country, no matter how heinous the crime, all offenders are offered the right to a fair trial. In order to get the information needed to present a fair side of the defendant at trial, counsel must relate to them. If they don't, such defendants could potentially argue ineffective counsel and try to appeal their convictions, however unsuccessful they may be. Laws mean everyone is afforded the same treatment--they are not individualized.
5
Judith Clarke is just doing her job. I do think she will prevail in avoiding the death penalty but not for the reasons she is presenting.
If I were on the jury, I would vote for life imprisonment- no possibility of parole.
I would deny him what he wants- to be a jihad martyr. He is a very young man and he will have decades to live in misery which is a far greater punishment than instant martyrdom.
If I were on the jury, I would vote for life imprisonment- no possibility of parole.
I would deny him what he wants- to be a jihad martyr. He is a very young man and he will have decades to live in misery which is a far greater punishment than instant martyrdom.
1
The judicial system is mostly about winning. It isn't about justice or solving problems. It's language is based on male words, like testifying, and penal systems. It is about power over and not about solving society's problems. This trial is a flaming example of this. Now we know little more then we did before the trial. It feels deliberate. But there was a public spectacle, and some kid who was not in control of himself has the possibility of being put to death essentially cutting off any possibility of learning more. It reminds me of the killing of Osama Bin Ladin, who by not having a trial, was not able to teach us more about the inner working of the war on terror. But then, I don't think anyone wants Americans to know what the inner workings of the war on terror actually is. It's actually a giant lie in order to make profits for multi-national oil and gas companies and their servers, the banks and the military industrial complex..or war profiteers. For details read Kevin Phillips books..any of them.
10
A trial is about the guilt or innocence of the defendant. It is not a sociological study. I don't like the war on terror but this man is a murderer and its time he was put away for good.
22
Supposedly you are correct, but I doubt that it is about guilt or innocence. He was tried before he ever got to his trial, kept in solitary, etc. The trial should have been removed from Mass. Not that I'm in favor of a murderer getting away with murder. But it is not cut and dry, nor is it black and white.
Put him away, of course. He's committed a horrific crime, but the wider questions get at why terrorists are flitting around the world able to carry out their murders. Answering those questions may be very uncomfortable for the CIA-NSA-FBI as it maneuvers in this demimond of Islamic cracked pots and homicidal maniacs in order to recruit for its various subterfuges and regime changes.
This case has been about the death penalty from the beginning.
That means it was not about answering any of these questions about what happened or why.
Instead, it focused on replay of the horror, as horrifying as possible, to wave the bloody shirt until the jury agrees to kill the defendant.
This is another reason why the death penalty is wrong. It diverts us from what needs to be done, off into the macabre effort to wallow in well-known horrors for months for the sole purpose of killing one more person.
That means it was not about answering any of these questions about what happened or why.
Instead, it focused on replay of the horror, as horrifying as possible, to wave the bloody shirt until the jury agrees to kill the defendant.
This is another reason why the death penalty is wrong. It diverts us from what needs to be done, off into the macabre effort to wallow in well-known horrors for months for the sole purpose of killing one more person.
69
There is also a problem for those of us against the death penalty: if we agree that the state should not kill, how do we then authorize invasions on bogus grounds?
1
In mass murder terrorism cases, many want the death penalty. including many who are otherwise opposed. Those who believe that the state should not execute anyone, even those who have committed the most heinous of crimes, are surely entitled to their views. But if they cannot understand why many believe otherwise, they are way too high up on their pedestals.
5
Mark, the death penalty phase of this trial hasn't even started yet and you're already jumping on the anti-death penalty soapbox making the touchy-feely knee jerk "oh poor baby" speech. Even if Tsarnaev is sentenced to death, he could languish on Death Row for the next 20 years without breaking into a sweat.
3