I would like to see writers add a rule that 10% of the writers can call for a vote to revoke a players election. Then if 40% vote to kick someone out, they're out. That way, writers can vote, knowing that it can be reversed if new information comes out. I think Piazza would be in if such a rule existed.
I don't know if any one noticed but Aaron Boone got two votes giving him bragging rights in his generation of Boones.
3
A Hall without Rose, Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro, McGuire, Sosa is a complete sham. This is not the Hall of PR, the Hall of Piety, The Hall of Popularity, the Hall of Perceived Morality. Baseball is entertainment. E N T E R T A I N M E N T! These were the best entertainers of their era. To their credit, many voters are moving towards including these great players. The Steroid Era show is over- the talking heads from Congress had their face time and the powers that be threw the players that saved baseball after the strike under the bus. Time to get over that and recognize some of the greatest names who ever played the game and entertained it's fans their due.
2
I totally agree. Baseball's HOF should have a wing dedicated to the Roses, Bonds, et al. of baseball explicitly explaining why each is "enshrined" alomg with displaying theit stats.
At the least the statistical books will be balanced...
At the least the statistical books will be balanced...
1
The stats those guys put up are a sham. Especially the home run totals. Some of us considered 61 and 755 to be at the outer limits of achievement. When pumped up guys blew those numbers away, I blew them off. Anyone so disrespectful of the game deserves to be disrespected back.
5
Biggio started his career as a catcher and excelled; fittingly, moved to second base where he spent so much time on base; and ended his career in Center Field, where most of his hits traveled.
Growing up in Houston, it was always a privilege to see Biggio play at the Astrodome and Minute Maid Park. He always gave 110%.
Growing up in Houston, it was always a privilege to see Biggio play at the Astrodome and Minute Maid Park. He always gave 110%.
3
Barry Bonds is not in the HOF. The HOF voters have absolutely no credibility.
1
Actually, HOF voters have nothing to be ashamed of. Bonds took himself out of consideration with his use of PEDs and especially with his lies.
Don't need more felons in a HOF.
Don't need more felons in a HOF.
2
The thing to remember about Mike Mussina - he played his entire career in the AL east division, first with Baltimore when the Yankees were the best team in the game, then with the Yankees when Boston and Tampa Bay were powerful teams. In his 20 year career, how many times did an AL East team with the pennant/world series?
4
And if they're discounting the PED inflated offensive stats, shouldn't we give credit to the guys who pitched effectively against the juicers?
1
Pedro throwing down Don Zimmer. That's how I will remember him.
1
who said afraid? Congratulation Pedro!
2
I used to be a fan of baseball but just got turned off by all the PED use during the Bonds/Sosa/McGwire home run years, all the best players had been clearly doping, just lost interest in a fixed game.
While these players never got caught doping, they still come from a tainted era. While I generally don't believe these players doped, it's hard not to think of them other than as "tarred with the same brush".
While these players never got caught doping, they still come from a tainted era. While I generally don't believe these players doped, it's hard not to think of them other than as "tarred with the same brush".
An ideal result for MLB. The writers voted in a big class and kept out suspected PED users. As the collective self-righteous indignation keeps the HOF pure, I wonder how the enablers Cox, LaRussa and Torre got in the Hall since they managed, coached and counseled players they now shun.
I hope these voters will keep other owners, managers and coaches who looked the other way, out of the HOF.
I hope these voters will keep other owners, managers and coaches who looked the other way, out of the HOF.
2
Johnson and Martinez are no-doubt Hall of Farmers and Smoltz is a reasonable choice. Biggio, on the other hand, belongs in the Hall of Longevity. He was a fine player but his accomplishments were largely a matter of durability. Three thousand hits aren't all that staggering when they come with a career batting average in the .280s. Good, though not extraordinary, defense and unexceptional power. As I've stated a fine player but not worthy of Cooperstown.
6
Every "clean" player with 3,000 hits has been elected to the Hall. Biggio is the weakest candidate. Apparently, that didn't matter to voters.
1
Biggio's a tricky one, a B+ player, more notable for quantity than quality. But considering the talent it takes just to get to the majors, and how few players manage to stick around for more than a handful of years, the fact that he maintained his skills over such a long period and managed to rack up the numbers he did is no small accomplishment. The fact that there are arguably better quality players who aren't in the Hall doesn't necessarily mean he didn't deserve to get in.
4
Four Gold Gloves (2nd Base); seven-time All-Star (one - Catcher, six-2nd Base); five Silver Slugger awards and not worthy of Cooperstown?
3
Comparing Biggio to Don Mattingly, overall Mattingly was a more round and productive player. and should have been voted in years ago.... Hopefully in due time he will get the due recognition and championship as a manager with LA and perhaps one day managing the Yankees
From the batters box they are comparable ( Don with more power and more RBI production), however Don received 9 gold gloves awards in 14 years compared Biggio only winning 4 in 20 years on the field..
From the batters box they are comparable ( Don with more power and more RBI production), however Don received 9 gold gloves awards in 14 years compared Biggio only winning 4 in 20 years on the field..
5
Longevity is a big deal with these voters.
You need two or three all-time great seasons ( Pedro, Koufax come to mind immediately ) to get in without having at least a decade's worth of very good seasons.
You need two or three all-time great seasons ( Pedro, Koufax come to mind immediately ) to get in without having at least a decade's worth of very good seasons.
1
Baseball finally gets it RIGHT !!! ;D
Congrats to ALL the Hall Of Fame 'Rookies' !!! ;D
Congrats to ALL the Hall Of Fame 'Rookies' !!! ;D
Congratulations to The Big Unit, we loved him in Seattle. A hard working, fabulous pitcher and wonderful human being! I can still see the sign of his strike outs being held up as they were counted by Mariner fans. I hope that the voters will think again about Edgar Martinez, a truly wonderful hitter and also from that great Mariner era.
4
So much spilled milk over Mike Piazza, the greatest one-dimensional softball player to grace the major leagues since Harmon Killebrew. No question the guy could hit. But run? nope. Throw? nope. Catch? nope. He was a catcher in name only, put in the position by Tommy Lasorda as a last resort for finding a way to get his bat in the game. Anyone with baseball knowledge could see that he had little idea how to call a game and of course had the worst throwing arm and plate defense skills of any everyday catcher in history. Steroid suspicions have little to do with his failing to get into the Hall today.
2
Pedro Martinez over Don Mattlingly? Seriously?
So, Mattingly over Pedro? Outside of NY, preposterous.
7
I'm a Yankee fan and even though Mattingly is one of my all time favorites, there's no comparison between Pedro and Mattingly. Pedro's a no-brainer HOFer.
4
I know there's a five year waiting period, but I bet I'm not alone in feeling Jeter should've been unanimously voted into the Hall today. "Santo subito!"
1
With the preponderance of stats geeks ruling the game today where is the love for the great Gil Hodges? He served in the Second World War, had stats that any modern player would sell his soul for, helped the Dodgers to numerous pennants and a World Championship, managed the Mets to their first title and by all accounts was a Prince among men?
And while many of the omissions mentioned may be worthy also have a look at the stats and fielding prowess of Jim Kaat. The voters have many shortcomings chief among them memory and a sense of history.
And while many of the omissions mentioned may be worthy also have a look at the stats and fielding prowess of Jim Kaat. The voters have many shortcomings chief among them memory and a sense of history.
12
Biggio: .281, 38 doubles per year, 17 hr per year.
Mattingly: .307, 40 doubles per year, 20 hr per year.
Donnie Baseball's case is made stronger for Biggio's inclusion. It's a sad day for #23.
Mattingly: .307, 40 doubles per year, 20 hr per year.
Donnie Baseball's case is made stronger for Biggio's inclusion. It's a sad day for #23.
9
You New Yorkers...Biggio has over three thousand hits (3060) to Mattingly's 2150. He also played 20 years to Mattngly's 14.
As I posted the other night, his stats are comparable in every way to the Twins' Kent Hrbek....except for his Gold Gloves and Hrbeks two World Series Rings.
As I posted the other night, his stats are comparable in every way to the Twins' Kent Hrbek....except for his Gold Gloves and Hrbeks two World Series Rings.
6
Biggio also had more than 400 stolen bases and spent much of his career hitting in the cavernous Astrodome. Plus, he was playing a premium defensive position, and it's pretty well established that offensive expectations to go in the HOF are lower for 2B/SS than 1B.
3
Mattingly, playing half his games in Yankee stadium with its softball-like dimensions and minor league right field porch.. Biggio, playing half his games in the Astro dome - a cavernous pitchers' park. Mattingly, performing in front the decidedly tilted East Coast media glare. Biggio, playing when the East Coast slept.
I'd put Mattingly in too, when he navigates the mess of the Dodgers as well as he has. But not Biggio? Ridiculous!
I'd put Mattingly in too, when he navigates the mess of the Dodgers as well as he has. But not Biggio? Ridiculous!
4
How could Piazza not make the cut? Mattingly is a serious oversight. Sometime I make love to the cows in the barn. You have to wonder if the Baseball Writers' Association has gotten too big for its britches.
2
Firstly, who are these writers that didn't vote for Johnson, Martinez and Smoltz? To me, Biggio was sort of borderline, but those other three - considering their accomplishments - deserved unanimous induction.
Secondly, where is Albert Belle? Having gone through the 1990's leading both leagues in every offensive category imaginable, how is he not in Cooperstown?
Secondly, where is Albert Belle? Having gone through the 1990's leading both leagues in every offensive category imaginable, how is he not in Cooperstown?
5
a bunch of years ago i read that there was some jerk/moron who voted against nolan ryan entering the hall. his reason: since none of the greats from long ago got unanimous entry into the hall (it's NEVER happened), then ryan shouldn't either.
1
It is stunning and senseless that Piazza is not in.
9
After more than 50 years the Houston Astros will finally have a player in the hall. Congratulations Craig Biggio - you deserve it.
13
Randy Johnson was also with the Astros in 1998, finishing with a 10-1 record.
Unfortunately, we lost him to the Diamondbacks the year after that.
Unfortunately, we lost him to the Diamondbacks the year after that.
Bagwell will get in next year.
1
Nolan Ryan ?
How could Piazza not be in the Hall of Fame?
To the curmudgeon voters that didn't vote from Mike because of steroid rumors. You should be ashamed!!!
Either bring proof and explain to the rest of us why he doesn't deserve enshrinement? or get over it and please put the man in the Hall of Fame!!!
You're a Hall of Famer in my books Mr Piazza
To the curmudgeon voters that didn't vote from Mike because of steroid rumors. You should be ashamed!!!
Either bring proof and explain to the rest of us why he doesn't deserve enshrinement? or get over it and please put the man in the Hall of Fame!!!
You're a Hall of Famer in my books Mr Piazza
8
Pedro in his prime -- a sub 2.00 ERA at the height of the steroid era in the American League no less.
With Koufax, the best pitcher in his prime I have ever seen in over 55 years of watching the National Pastime.
Okay Red Sox fans. We are even for all the nice things you said about No. 2.
With Koufax, the best pitcher in his prime I have ever seen in over 55 years of watching the National Pastime.
Okay Red Sox fans. We are even for all the nice things you said about No. 2.
25
"Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, John Smoltz and Craig Biggio were elected to the Hall of Fame on Tuesday, the first time in 60 years that four players were voted in in one year."
... voted in in one year?
C'mon guys ....
.... honored in one year.
... voted in in one year?
C'mon guys ....
.... honored in one year.
4
Somewhere, a copy editor is nervous.
1
So disappointed that Mike Piazza didn't make it into the Hall this time. Given his career statistics, one would have to believe that the only reason some writers kept him off their ballots were thoughts of PED use. Thant's a shame as he has never been linked to PEDs, unlike some of the other notable exceptions (Clemens, Bonds).
8
Great hitter but not an especially good catcher.
2
Please advise: what PEDs were these guys taking during their careers? As of 1995, just about every "professional" baseball player was doing it.
The Hall of Fame selection is still too random, too arbitrary, and too exclusive. Piazza, Raines, Mussina, and Sheffield, among others, deserve to be in.
3
The strange thing to me is that Mussina was more productive than Smoltz. Hope to see him in the HOF in the next several years.
4
Mussina never won a Cy Young award and had a much poorer post-season record than Smoltz. And Smoltz excellence as both a starter and reliever no doubt also entered into the decision.
9
Hooray! All four inductees are deserving of the honor. The pitchers had some of the greatest stuff I've ever seen, though I saw more of Johnson in in Seattle. He was so fast the ball sounded like it was striking a slab of meat when it hit the catcher's glove...and it took awhile for it to register in the stands. In televised games featuring Pedro, I loved watching the hitters' faces as they slumped back to the dugout casting looks of disbelief at the mound.
Bonds and Clemens(and perhaps Mike Piazza, Jeff Bagwell and Jeff Kent) have joined Pete Rose and Joe Jackson in the BWAA's own Mephistopheles Club. Oh, and one more thing: I too am bummed at the slight of Jack Morris. It's probably his high career ERA. But he was not the guy you wanted to see on the mound in a big game against your club. Ask John Smoltz.
Bonds and Clemens(and perhaps Mike Piazza, Jeff Bagwell and Jeff Kent) have joined Pete Rose and Joe Jackson in the BWAA's own Mephistopheles Club. Oh, and one more thing: I too am bummed at the slight of Jack Morris. It's probably his high career ERA. But he was not the guy you wanted to see on the mound in a big game against your club. Ask John Smoltz.
1
I was rooting for the Twins in that game 7, and Morris pitched the game of his life, but the only reason that he won that game was because Lonnie Smith's baserunning gaffe cost the Braves a run in the top of the 8th. If Smith hadn't been deked into holding up at 3rd on Terry Pendleton's double, Smoltz and not Morris would have been the 1-0 winner.
2
In my mind Morris definitely belongs. A money, big game pitcher.
2
Jack Morris's career postseason ERA in 13 games: 3.80
John Smoltz's career postseason ERA in 41 games: 2.67
The numbers don't lie.
And Smoltz's numbers were largely acquired in the so-called "steroid era", when run production was at an all-time high.
John Smoltz's career postseason ERA in 41 games: 2.67
The numbers don't lie.
And Smoltz's numbers were largely acquired in the so-called "steroid era", when run production was at an all-time high.
1
I would just like to know the writers who left Johnson and Martinez off their ballots. Either these writers had some kind of personal vendetta or they know very little about the sport that they are supposed to be so knowledgeable about. Johnson and martinez had incredible careers and during their prime were virtually unhittable. I am glad they got elected but they both deserved 100% on the ballots.
10
I've heard that some writers refuse on principle to vote for a player on the first ballot - if true, this seems stupid and indefensible. There are other writers, however (see link below for an example), who feel constrained by the HOF rules that limit a voter to 10 selections (the "Rule of 10"), and who leave off players that are guaranteed entry (e.g., Johnson and Martinez) in order to vote for deserving players that need more help. (In other words, voting for Johnson and Martinez is a "waste" of 2 of your 10 votes, which have more value to a borderline candidate.) This gamesmanship is somewhat warped but could be avoided by getting rid of the Rule of 10.
One writer's ballot: https://twitter.com/mikeberardino/status/549394816657022977
One writer's ballot: https://twitter.com/mikeberardino/status/549394816657022977
5
So throwing an old guy to the ground is not as bad as gambling
2
Big time Yankees fan and screamed for Pedro's head on a plate when Zimmer fell; but watch that incident a few times and you'll see Zimmer charging him, Pedro pretty much stepping aside and Zimmer flying past him. Not quite the body slam I took it for that night.
14
I'm a huge Yankee fan but Pedro actually showed restraint when he tossed Zimmer harmlessly to the ground. He could have decked the old man. it's too bad that Pedro didn't show a little more concern for the dozens of heads he threw at from the mound. Sure, Bob Gibson liked to throw inside, too. But he wasn't looking to kill anyone. Pedro deserves to be in HoF. But he gets low marks for me for character and bravery. Doesn't take much of a man to throw at a batter's head knowing, as he did for most of his career, that he didn'tt have to step into the batters box.
5
If you look at the tape you should conclude that Pedro was embarrassed for Zimmer and handled the situation with as much care as possible under the circumstances.
Take it from me, a Yankees fan, who thinks that the Red Sox represent everything wrong with the country.
Take it from me, a Yankees fan, who thinks that the Red Sox represent everything wrong with the country.
8
Biggio is one of only a very few with 2500 hits,1500 rus scored,250 HR, and 250 stolen bases. He deserves it.
MIke Mussina also deserves it.
Pedro was linked to a PED supplier in the news about 10 years ago...if people can ignore that then they need to ignore the Piazza rumors and elect Piazza too.
Baseball should do what the Olympics does. Let people be elected on the.merits but stripped later on of HOF if there is PROOF. It's not fair to punish Piazza etal based on just rumors.
MIke Mussina also deserves it.
Pedro was linked to a PED supplier in the news about 10 years ago...if people can ignore that then they need to ignore the Piazza rumors and elect Piazza too.
Baseball should do what the Olympics does. Let people be elected on the.merits but stripped later on of HOF if there is PROOF. It's not fair to punish Piazza etal based on just rumors.
3
As far as I know with limited exception of a few sports like gymnastics and figure skating, Olympic champions are not chosen by voting.
4
As far as I know with limited exception of a few sports like gymnastics and figure skating, Olympic champions are not chosen by voting.
Randy broke my heart in 2001 Game 7 but he surely deserves this honor.
10
I would love to know the reasoning of the voters who didn't vote for Johnson or Martinez. And without proof of PED use, Piazza is worthy of the HOF and Jeff Bagwell as well. I hope the old timer's committee elects Dwight Evans some day too.
16
I completely agree in regards to Johnson. Nearly 5,000 Ks and over 300 wins? Enshrinement through unanimous vote is warranted. Not so, with Pedro. Yes, he belongs in the HoF. He was un-hittable for about seven or eight seasons. But his career stats don't warrant a unanimous vote - maybe not even first-ballot election. Don Mattingly had a similar streak where he was the best hitter in the game. Mike Mussina was nearly as good as Pedro and for a lot longer. Neither of those two will be Hofers. At least this year's vote will provide cover for the sports writers when Jeter fails to get every writer's vote four years from now. If Johnson wasn't a unanimous choice, hard to make a case for Jeter, who is one of my favorites.
1
In at least some cases, it was gaming the ballot due to not being allowed to vote for more than 10 candidates. For voters who thought there were more than 10 deserving candidates, it made sense to leave off Johnson and Martinez on the logic that they would get in anyway, and other candidates needed the vote more.
5
Piazza will eventually get in - probably.
But you must recognize that 95% of folks think he juiced.
Nice guy - great player - basic character flaw
But you must recognize that 95% of folks think he juiced.
Nice guy - great player - basic character flaw
3
Deserving players who weren't elected:
Mike Piazza
Mike Mussina
Jeff Bagwell
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Edgar Martinez
Alan Trammell
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
If you disagree about Bonds and Clemens, I hope you're aware that there are dozens of cheaters, scoundrels, racists and all-around terrible humans already in the Hall. Hank Aaron and Willie Mays used amphetamines, Whitey Ford and Gaylord Perry doctored baseballs, Ty Cobb and Cap Anson were vicious racists.
When Bonds and Clemens (and Sosa, McGwire, etc.) used steroids, they were being used by a large majority of MLB players, and the league took absolutely zero action to stop it. It was common knowledge amongst sportswriters, but they remained largely silent and voted these men for MVPs. Now they're applying retroactive morality and claiming that the steroid guys are somehow different from all the other cheaters already in the Hall. The Hall of Fame is a MUSEUM, not a church. Pretending the steroids guys didn't exist is just sad.
Mike Piazza
Mike Mussina
Jeff Bagwell
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Edgar Martinez
Alan Trammell
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
If you disagree about Bonds and Clemens, I hope you're aware that there are dozens of cheaters, scoundrels, racists and all-around terrible humans already in the Hall. Hank Aaron and Willie Mays used amphetamines, Whitey Ford and Gaylord Perry doctored baseballs, Ty Cobb and Cap Anson were vicious racists.
When Bonds and Clemens (and Sosa, McGwire, etc.) used steroids, they were being used by a large majority of MLB players, and the league took absolutely zero action to stop it. It was common knowledge amongst sportswriters, but they remained largely silent and voted these men for MVPs. Now they're applying retroactive morality and claiming that the steroid guys are somehow different from all the other cheaters already in the Hall. The Hall of Fame is a MUSEUM, not a church. Pretending the steroids guys didn't exist is just sad.
29
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but thank goodness that uou are in the minority and Bonds and Clemens only got about half of the voters' support they needed. Given the ten year limit, they very likely will not get in as regular inductees. I say good. They knowingly besmirched their names and the game and deserve nothing. The argument that everyone else was doing it is specious, and is terribly unfair to the majority of players who resisted the temptation to chemically enhance their stats. Ditto for A-Rod when he becomes eligible.
4
"The Hall of Fame is a MUSEUM, not a church. Pretending the steroids guys didn't exist is just sad."
You need to watch Bull Durham. Baseball is indeed a church/religion.
Honestly, I can see both sides of the argument. There's little doubt in my mind that Bonds and Clemens would both be HoF worthy, albeit with less gaudy stats, if they hadn't juiced up. At the same time, I don't have an issue with those two and others serving as deterrents to current/future players for the next few decades. Guys are still juicing. Melky Cabrera went from a less-than-mediocre hitter to a near-batting crown winner thanks to chemical enhancement. Not that Melky would ever get in the HoF without a ticket, but maybe some prospect down the road, still wide-eyed and hungry for immortality, will look at Bonds' and Clemens' fates and recognize that PEDs will keep you out of Cooperstown, instead of delivering you there. Shunning Bonds and Clemens (and eventually ARod) won't completely eliminate PEDs from baseball, but it might restrict their usage to has-beens and never-will-bes, which will help to keep the HoF clean.
You need to watch Bull Durham. Baseball is indeed a church/religion.
Honestly, I can see both sides of the argument. There's little doubt in my mind that Bonds and Clemens would both be HoF worthy, albeit with less gaudy stats, if they hadn't juiced up. At the same time, I don't have an issue with those two and others serving as deterrents to current/future players for the next few decades. Guys are still juicing. Melky Cabrera went from a less-than-mediocre hitter to a near-batting crown winner thanks to chemical enhancement. Not that Melky would ever get in the HoF without a ticket, but maybe some prospect down the road, still wide-eyed and hungry for immortality, will look at Bonds' and Clemens' fates and recognize that PEDs will keep you out of Cooperstown, instead of delivering you there. Shunning Bonds and Clemens (and eventually ARod) won't completely eliminate PEDs from baseball, but it might restrict their usage to has-beens and never-will-bes, which will help to keep the HoF clean.
10
I would put Rose in - this ain't a popularity contest and there is no indication that he "threw" any games. Pete Rose - much as I dislike him - would never throw a game.
The steriod guys are a different story. I would not put any of them in the Hall.
As far as your list goes, I would vote for Piazza and Shilling and consider Bagwell - none of the others. I'd like to publish a list of guys who should be taken out of the Hall - thus making it truly exclusive club. Let's start with Bill Mazerowski, Gary Carter and Dave Winfield and go on from there….
The steriod guys are a different story. I would not put any of them in the Hall.
As far as your list goes, I would vote for Piazza and Shilling and consider Bagwell - none of the others. I'd like to publish a list of guys who should be taken out of the Hall - thus making it truly exclusive club. Let's start with Bill Mazerowski, Gary Carter and Dave Winfield and go on from there….
3
Don Mattingly should have gotten in on mustache alone
12
It's about time more than one or two players are honored rather than a player and a broadcaster. Now look at Pedro Martinez vs. Jack Morris, who was the dominant pitcher '83 to '92, won the World Series three times and pitched the '91 Series 7th game 10 inning shutout!
3
Jim Kaat is another one that should be in the HOF.
7
Jack Morris was a very good pitcher but not great, and there were several pitchers who were consistently better than Morris during his prime: Nolan Ryan, Steve Carlton, Roger Clemens, Dwight Gooden, Orel Hershiser, to name just a few. This is reflected in the fact that Morris never won a CYA and finished in the top 3 only twice. He only led his league a total of 3 times in any of the traditional pitching triple crown categories (W, SO, ERA). He does especially poorly comapred to his elite peers on advanced metrics such as ERA+ and WHIP. A good pitcher, but not HOF material.
3
There is no truth to the rumor that Pedro's plaque says that he beat up an old man and Grady Little kept him in one batter too long.
11
Zimmer charged Martinez, Pedro bumped him, and the fat old man fell down. Tough.
19
Agree with you in terms of the harmlessness of Pedro's actions. But go watch the video. He didn't bump him. He grabbed his head with both hands and tossed him, albeit gently, to the ground.
2
Don Zimmer charged the mound. Turn the page.
5
those writers that have kept the best all time hitting catcher out of the hall ( without anything more then rumors re. PED's) should be ashamed of themselves!
23
I suspect that the writers are doing Piazza a favor by keeping what they've heard of his relations to PEDs a secret. True or not, there's apparently some fairly damning evidence against Piazza that isn't public. I'd be curious if Piazza ever made a public declaration that he was clean. If there is any evidence to the contrary, I'm sure a denial from Piazza would mean its disclosure.
The "rumors" begin with first-person accounts and Piazza's own comments. Also, people who really know the game are only going to vote for catchers who are above average at their position. Catchers are a different breed of player. It's only enough to hit well if you are a DH (Big Papi will likely be honored), OF or first baseman (sometimes third), and those HOFers have to hit exceptionally well (like Miggy Cabrera). It's hard to lump a sub-standard catcher in with the rest and compare them only on their plate appearances.
1
Everything is public:
1. First and foremost he bulked up from of his lowly draft to the time he entered the majors in a way that steroids users were bulking up at the time.
2. Anonymous associates of his said he used steroids.
3. He had a heavily pimpled back, as do most steroid users.
Take it as you like, but that's the evidence, and there's nothing secret about it.
1. First and foremost he bulked up from of his lowly draft to the time he entered the majors in a way that steroids users were bulking up at the time.
2. Anonymous associates of his said he used steroids.
3. He had a heavily pimpled back, as do most steroid users.
Take it as you like, but that's the evidence, and there's nothing secret about it.
Glad to see Randy Johnson at the top of the list. He was a guy you had to see at the park. TV just didn't do justice to a gangly lefty almost seven feet tall who was so intense I swear there was smoke coming out of his ears. The guy showed lots of emotion on the mound and, with his 200 mph fastball hitters didn't have much of a chance. If there were a statistic measuring how many swinging strikes missed by a mile, I believe Johnson would be the all-time leader,
17
I remember a Randy Johnson fastball that a batter swung at, then pulled back and tried to check his swing. He got enough bat on it, and Randy threw it so hard, that it went out of the park. That is still the only check-swing home run that i know of. Unbelievable.
7
I'm so afraid of The Big Unit that I wouldn't go to Cooperstown even to see his plaque -- that terrible visage!
1
Let it be stated again: Hank Aaron, 80 years old and possessing more class in his pinky finger than most people have in their whole bodies, remains the legitimate, all-time career home run leader in major league baseball with 755 regular season four-baggers.
Much is wrong with the world, but the fact that Aaron retired in 1976 with a World Series ring (Milwaukee Braves, 1957) while the manifestly unpleasant Barry Bonds quit in 2007 without one and has since failed to gain election to the Hall of Fame while watching his former team (San Francisco Giants) win 3 World Series titles in the past 5 years is somehow a sign that sometimes things do go right in the world.
Much is wrong with the world, but the fact that Aaron retired in 1976 with a World Series ring (Milwaukee Braves, 1957) while the manifestly unpleasant Barry Bonds quit in 2007 without one and has since failed to gain election to the Hall of Fame while watching his former team (San Francisco Giants) win 3 World Series titles in the past 5 years is somehow a sign that sometimes things do go right in the world.
56
Either they all get voted in or not. If they get voted in, then Bonds achievement must be included. Whether you feel that man was unpleasant, remember the antics of Ty Cobb who is already in Cooperstown. So stick to some selection logic and not dump on arguably the best player in baseball according to official, legally defensible statistics. Perhaps you ought to start a campaign to remove Ty Cobb!
4
If I had a vote, I'd vote for Bonds, Clemmens and any otherwise Hall of Fame worthy candidate implicated in PED use. It's exactly what the baseball establishment deserves, given their 'head in the sand' attitude towards the issue during the height of the steroid era.
Not to mention that to do otherwise puts the onus on the voters to be judge and jury. And while that might be understandable for someone who was officially sanctioned under the rules, like Rafael Palmiero, it is patently unfair to those implicated only by indirect evidence and/or innuendo.
Not to mention that to do otherwise puts the onus on the voters to be judge and jury. And while that might be understandable for someone who was officially sanctioned under the rules, like Rafael Palmiero, it is patently unfair to those implicated only by indirect evidence and/or innuendo.
2
I couldn't agree with you more regarding Aaron, although class has nothing to do with it. If it did, players such as Ty Cobb wouldn't be in.
Following up on this line of thought, Roger Maris is still the single season home run king, as the players who have broken his record all did so under "The Cloud". Bonds, McGwire and Sousa will not go to the Hall Of Fame, nor should they.
The single season home run record is the most important record in American sports and Maris has now held it for over 50 years - longer than anyone else. If they can put Mazerowski in for one hit, shouldn't they put Maris in for 61??
Following up on this line of thought, Roger Maris is still the single season home run king, as the players who have broken his record all did so under "The Cloud". Bonds, McGwire and Sousa will not go to the Hall Of Fame, nor should they.
The single season home run record is the most important record in American sports and Maris has now held it for over 50 years - longer than anyone else. If they can put Mazerowski in for one hit, shouldn't they put Maris in for 61??
4
Biggio getting in before Piazza? That is ridiculous!
26
If I could get over my antipathy for the Dodgers in general and Lasorda in particular, I might agree with you...
5
He got 70%. Hope 2016 is the charm.
1
I may understand your point, "HapinOregon", but Piazza should be inducted as a Met, so your animus can rightly be set aside.
1
Mark McGuire and Sammie Sosa were no Barry Bonds.
Martinez, Johnson and Smoltz belong but so do Mussina and Clemens.